Title: Transcripts of interviews conducted by Gwendolen M. Carter, 1972-1985
Full Citation
Permanent Link: http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00095707/00047
 Material Information
Title: Transcripts of interviews conducted by Gwendolen M. Carter, 1972-1985
Physical Description: Archival
Language: English
Creator: Carter, Gwendolen M.
Copyright Date: 1985
 Record Information
Bibliographic ID: UF00095707
Volume ID: VID00047
Source Institution: University of Florida
Holding Location: University of Florida
Rights Management: All rights reserved by the source institution and holding location.

Full Text

Ossia Casalla--page 3.
AMi are all reasons. A meeting with Kennedy would confer some credibility.

Security Police are far right. Foster Guard---allegiance is to the police not the army.

The U.S. has consistently voted against us in the U.N. The threat of disinvestment could be,
made donditional upon the performance of A;B;C; within a fixed time, 6 months. Right now
the foreign investment is buttresing the government. When it is asserted that disinvestment
will hurt the blacks most but that is just the government line.

,k1976 was a turning point.
1980 the colored in the western Cape---the election could not succeed because of the organizing.
1984 we regained the lost ground and showed that the spirit of freedom is alive and well.

A. Hold a national convention
B. Abolish Influx Control
C. Abandon Forced Resettlement and Group Areas Act.

AZAPO has passed through the Steve Beko Era. The break from USAS was important. Black
Consciousness unified people of the intellectual and middle class.
Right now there is almost a war xi k between AZAPO and UDF, however there is really no
support for AZAPO on the ground.
There is no evidence that PAC is making a come back.

Andrew iaraine-Cape Town, 1985

1) Transvaal rural areas, 2) Stay away, 3) School Boycott, 4) elections
18% colored, 15% Indiana--average of registered voters.
There is growing rural activity--meetings draw 2-3000. 350,000 kids were out of school in Jan.
And 1,000,000 out of school during the elections. There are no schools in session in Cradock.

The Stay away was originally called by COSAS on school issues but the workers took it fe.4he
into the area of general living conditions.
Lulu Johnson in Port Elizibeth. Shepard Marti-Johannesberg.
The chamber of Commerice reported that the stay-away was up to 100% effective in some
industrial areas. The Civic Associations and the Women's Groups were very active. A measure
of success; PATCO usually moves 100,000 people but they moved only 300 that day.

Andrew Boraine--page 2.

The attitude in the townships is "let the army come, we will show them that they cant control
us." The army si still on allert in the townships. The places the army had been were the

most active during the stay away.
You should suscribe to SASPO.
(I am ) on the executive committee of Lhe UDF. Active in anti-election. We canvased door to

door. There was no problem with being white but the people said that they didn't want to

talk politics. The conservative church people are the hardest.
Forced removal was the real issue and everyone knew that the constitution was not going to solve

the problem.
In the Transvaal the collapse of local governmental structures is partly due to the non-payment
of rent. In areas local authorities have been killed and their property destroyed, uij~

they wiped out the whole class.
The UiExp Civic Assiciations pre date the UDF.

The state is trying to legalize repression. They are Bling the criminal courts rather than
the security legislation. The violence over the elections, the police riot, everything goes
wrong for the government. They probably won' be able to convict the people in Durban but they

will keep them on ice. The charges on the Druben 6 have not been formulated yet.

The purpose for forming the UDF was to provide a coordination role, define direction,
provide national dixrmtiaLx communication, and zxafi provide a higher political profile.

The NF are antagonistic to the uDF, because black consciousness ma was losing membership to

The importance of the trade unions grows.

1984 has been the busiest year in the past 10. Thek larger towns in the rural areas are becoming

70,000 people living in Crossroads. New Crossroads didn't scratch the surface. KTC is 4.
another squater camp. The cape flats xldi where they want to move them to is a sandy waste.
its dusty and windy.

Collin Egland--Cape town, 1985

The problem is how to firm up Africa. when I was in Maputo 3 month ago they stressed that theee

RmX "never where AIC bases and that unless it brings an end to MNR there is no N'Kamati."
FRELIMO cannot accommodate the MNR.
I don't know of a stage when the country xaxzmxa appeared to be as rudderless. After the
trouble in Seboking the government set up a Cabinet Committee (Jan 83) to look at the
points of friction. They are looking for a non-constitutional solution.
Te at of excluding the blacks fwom political participation has made the inclusion of t
the focus of the debate.

Collin Egland-page 2
Constructive engagement does not make the government do what it doesn't want to do.
The government is not concerned about society but with continuing to governs.
The blacks have developed a greater awareness of the political process, also of social
and economic power.
The government is being forced to respond to black pressure to meet their demands.
the evolutionary cycle is 1) formulation and passage of a law, 2) frustration with the
law 3) x3s violence, 4)repression, 5) reform and/or repeal of law.
Black education has improved due to the governments response to the needs for more trained
There is an irresistable groundswell of black importance. The governmzeA may not like it
but they have to deal with it.

Before a bill comes to parliament it first goes to a standing committee. This is a joint
meeting but there is no joint decision.
The labor party is so upset by the UDF that it now finds itself defending the government.

Now there is not going to be a first reading of a bill. The Bill is presented to the speaker
who has it tabled or gazetted and it is presented to each member. Then it is referred to
the standing committee (members have 5 year term) which has mixed membership. Each select
committee of each house reports back to that house. The bill can then be accepted for
a second reading with no further debate unless the minister in charge indicates that there
is willingness to change it.
The conservatives can do less than the coloreds.

Charles Bromberg--writer--Capetown, 1985
Baily has all of the photos from Drum.
My manuscript is now 19 inches---3000 pages. I need support so that I could finish it.
R/600 per month.
"we don't deserve blacks like these" (in reference to how patient they have been).

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