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Interview with Marion Kissam November 3 1993

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Interview with Marion Kissam November 3 1993
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Kissam, Marion ( Interviewee )
McCarthy, Faith ( Interviewer )
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English

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Alachua County General Oral History Collection ( local )

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University of Florida
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University of Florida
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Made available under a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 4.0 International license: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/.

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AL 173
Interviewee: Marion Kissam
Interviewer: Faith McCarthy
Date: November 3, 1993


M: This is Faith McCarthy and I am interviewing Marion Kissam. Could you please
tell me your name and give me your address?

K: It is Marion Kissam. [My address is] Route #2, Box 125-30, Micanopy.

M: Let me get a little bit of background on you. I would eventually like to work into
your education and your career as a nurse. But I would like to start with a little
bit of background. Where were you born?

K: In Alachua.

M: And you were raised there?

K: Mostly in this area.

M: Can you tell me a little bit about your family?

K: I was an only child. Beyond that, what would you like to know?

M: What did your parents do? Were they farmers? Or did they work?

K: My father had a business in High Springs. We traveled. He was an insurance
business district manager for both metropolitan and __ for years.

We traveled. We lived in hotels and boarding houses and so forth. Until I
started school, when I started [living] with my grandparents in Mobile. And then
my parents were dissatisfied with that, so he took a demotion back to a manager
in Tampa, and I came back with them. And then we moved around mostly in
Florida. His district was Florida, Georgia, and Louisiana, and that area. And
then we eventually settled over in High Springs, where he went into business for
himself.

M: OK. So what age were you when you settled in High Springs?

K: Oh, I was probably about twelve, or somewhere in that area.

M: And you grew up in that community and developed friendships?

K: Yes.

M: So at what age did you graduate from high school then?


K: [I was] seventeen.









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M: At that time, what were your thoughts about the future?

K: Well I had planned to go on to college. In fact, I had a room reserved at Florida
Southern. I had been accepted there and at Alabama, where my father wanted
me to go. And I became interested in nursing due to Margaret Kingman, who
was working this nursing school up at Alachua General [Hospital], or in Alachua
County (at that time). I became interested in it and went in, really fully not
intending to stay; it was just something different at the time. And I really liked it.

M: So when you were graduating from high school you had intended to go to college
and study liberal arts?

K: Well I had been offered a scholarship in music at that time.

M: Do you play an instrument?

K: [I play the] piano.

M: So your parents must have been fairly supportive of the idea of you going to
college?

K: Oh yes, they definitely were.

M: What did they think when you decided [to go into nursing]?

K: My father was very much against it very much so.

M: Do you have any idea why?

K: No, not really. It was just the idea, I guess. I do not know. The older people did
not think much of nurses at that point, I think.

M: And your mother?

K: My mother was very supportive of it. My father changed his mind later on.

M: Once you got into your program?

K: Yes, later on.

M: And maybe he saw how much you were enjoying it.

Now I am not understanding this; the recruiter came to your high school and you
got excited about the idea of nursing?

K: I became interested in it at that time. Over the summer I think, my interest sort









AL 173
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of grew a little bit more.

M: Now the recruiter would be the recruiter from the cadet nurse program?

K: Well, Margaret Kingman and Audrey Jones were setting up the school here in
Alachua County at the time. So actually, they were from the nursing school itself
at the new hospital.

M: Were you exposed to any of the other recruitments pamphlets, posters, that
sort of thing from the cadet nurse?

K: Not really.

M: So you were not really attracted to the idea of that official uniform of the
government?

K: Not really.

M: We talked about your family's ideas concerning nursing. What about your
friends? Were they surprised when you decided [to do this]?

K: There were two other girls from my High Springs high school graduating class
that went in at the same time. One finished, and one was a cousin who did not
finish.

M: Tell me a little bit about the application process. You had to be a graduate of
high school, right?

K: Yes.

M: What other restrictions do you remember?

K: I do not remember any. I think you were supposed to have been eighteen to go
in, which I was close enough to.

M: Now there were no black students at the program. Do you ever remember any
discussion about that, or was it just assumed?

K: I guess it was just assumed; none of the schools were integrated here at that
time.

M: None of the high schools?

K: No, no schools at all were integrated.

M: What about the idea of men in the program? Was there any talk?









AL 173
Page 4

K: It was just all most unheard of; you did not even think about it, I guess.

M: You were probably pretty unusual at this time; a young girl in the 1940s having
the opportunity of a college education. Would you say that was quite unusual?

K: No I think a number of my classmates either went on to college or some sort of
schooling. It was unusual though, because I guess the majority of the girls at
that point really did not think about further schooling.

M: So you feel like a lot of the women in your community were able to go on to
further education?

K: A number of them did, yes.

M: What do you think were some of the benefits of going through the nursing
program at Alachua General Hospital when you did?

K: Well I think we were very fortunate because we got extremely good training.
They were striving to set the school up, so the standards were set very high.
And almost all of our students scored very high on the state boards.

M: Do you think that the requirements for the cadet nurse program had anything to
do with the requirements for the curriculum that were set up at the high school?

K: I do not think so. I think it was Audrey Jones' curriculum that was set up. She
was an extremely good director of nurses.

M: She had standard of what she thought nursing school [should be].

K: I think it was mostly Audrey Jones. We never did think much about the cadet
nurse corps frankly, because we got in at the last, when there were no uniforms
or anything, and it was almost a forgotten issue by the time we finished.

M: Do you think the idea of a free education attracted some of the women in the
program?

K: Oh I am sure it did, because there were a number in there that probably could
not have afforded to go on to school at that point.

M: Tell me about the idea of the maintenance program; you were allowed to stay in
the dormitory, you ate at the hospital, (I assume) your laundry was done, you
had supervision. What kind of attraction did that hold for you as a young
woman?


K: I do not know that it held any.









AL 173
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M: The idea of leaving home and going into a safe environment; did that ever enter
your mind?

K: Well I was so close to home; I was just twenty-six miles from my home anyway.
I guess I was always pretty well independent anyway. I had my own car and
otherwise, and I could come and go. I guess being independent all of my life, I
never thought about it.

M: Do you think some of the other girls might have felt a little different leaving
home?

K: Probably so.

M: What about your parents? Did that attract them this idea of this supervised
living arrangement?

K: No more so than college. Of course, college was very restrictive at that time; it
was very supervised.

M: Looking back on it now, or even at the time, did you see any problems? From
what I hear from many of the graduates, it was just the most positive experience.
Is that your [position as well]?

K: Very much so.

M: Going through an apprenticeship program where the student nurses were
expected to carry the load on the wards, did you feel exploited at all?

K: Not really. I mean, it was a learning experience, and I wanted all of the
experience I could get. In fact, when I got into surgery further on, in my second
year, I took extra call in surgery because I enjoyed it.

M: What sort of hours do you remember working?

K: Long [laughter]. It was supposed to have been eight hours a day, including
classes and all of the wards. But it never worked into that; it was always longer
hours. And we had to be in the dormitory by 10:00 p.m. You signed in and
signed out: where you were going, and what time you expected to be back. And
you signed in when you came in. In the first six months, we were maybe allowed
one overnight, and one late leave until 12:00. And then it gradually worked up
to, in the second year, maybe two something like that.

M: So you could go home, see family, and that sort of thing?

K: The ones of us that lived close by. And the majority of us I believe, did live close









AL 173
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by. [Or we lived] fairly close, anyway.

M: Were you aware of the controversy over the accelerated program at that time?
At this time in nursing they were shortening the time to just a three-year program,
or thirty months. Were you aware of any of that?

K: It had been a three-year program for quite some time when we went in. There
were very few nursing schools on the four or five year program at that time. In
fact, the one here was opened after much later than that.

M: The University program?

K: Yes. And of course the two year program at the community college was unheard
of.

M: As a young student nurse, what was your relationship with the doctors that you
came into contact with at the hospital?

K: I think we were probably taught to have more respect for doctors than is
common.

M: The war [WWII] was just ending, so were you working with a lot of doctors
returning from the service?

K: We had about eight or ten doctors in this town at that point. And then a year or
so after the war, we began to build up different ones coming back. But you could
count the positions here on your hand. And you knew all of them extremely well.


M: OK. Now what year did you graduate?

K: 1948.

M: So you spent three years in the program and developed a lot of relationships?

K: Yes. Our class was a rather close class; all of our group was close.

M: Now you started out with about thirty students?

K: I think we were about thirty probably thirty two.

M: And [you] ended up with [how many]?

K: About fourteen, I believe. And one or two of those were in the class below us,
which was a small class. They just incorporated it [into our program] and these
girls worked on and finished up after graduation, about six months or so [later].









AL 173
Page 7

M: Now tell me about living in the dorms. You have talked about the checking in
and checking out. You had a roommate the entire time?

K: Our first year, we did not. We were on the third floor in private rooms; we had
individual rooms at that point.

M: And then you went down to the second floor?

K: We were later moved down to the second [floor] with roommates.

M: Tell me about moving down to the second floor and getting a roommate. Who
was your roommate?

K: I guess my first roommate was Paula Wells, probably. She was a girl from here
in town.

M: Did you develop a friendship that would last your life?

K: I was not that close with this particular girl.

M: But [were you close to] some of the other students?

K: Oh yes. Some of us are still really close.

M: Did you work together after graduation?

K: I went into public health afterwards. The hospital only offered $150 a month and
I could get $175 doing public health. But actually, I liked simple movement,
rather than just working straight on the floor. I never enjoyed the floor duty I
guess, as much as I did the special [work]. I was actually in charge of O.B. at
one time (the labor room) before I graduated. We were very short of help and
had to add on night duty. And I enjoyed that very much. And then I had so
much time in surgery in the last six months when they got to checking hours, I
did not have enough hours on the floor to graduate. So I had to go back and
work the last six months. But they kept calling me back to surgery and
requesting [me]. And these doctors would send me back there every time.
Because I did enjoy it.

M: That brings up an interesting idea about the wages. The wages for nursing at
that time were not that high.

K: It was tough when we went here. Now I think salary here was probably lower
because of the University veterans coming back; all of their wives were nurses,
and looking for work. So there was no shortage of nurses at that time. So [the
wages] here were probably lower than in Jacksonville, or somewhere like that.









AL 173
Page 8

Actually, the going rate for male college graduates at that time was only about
$200 a month.

M: So it really compared to other traditional, female professions?

K: [We made] probably as much as teachers, or otherwise.

M: Well tell me a little bit about public health. That is interesting. You went to work
for the public health service here in Gainesville?

K: Yes, my district was about half of the city of Gainesville, and the outlying areas
around. And I had most of the students who were in town and most of the
midwives that we supervised.

M: So what sort of thing [did you do]? Did you do a lot of education of the public?

K: It was mainly that, and holding well-baby clinics and ruby clinics. We gave
immunizations and then we did the outlying, smaller towns.

M: How long did you do that?

K: For about two years. When I married, we moved away from here.

M: Did you continue to go in and out of nursing, or was that pretty much the end of
your career as a nurse?

K: After we moved down south I was offered a small hospital over in Groveland to
administer. And I did that for probably a year and a half. And then I had medical
problems: I had a ruptured disc, and then I was pregnant. And at that point I
decided that I would stay home with the children. So I did not work for about
fifteen years after that. Well, I came back we moved back up here. And I
realized that I had gotten so far behind in medications and procedures that I
came over and I relieved the night supervisors two nights a week. There were
two of them on [duty].

M: At Alachua General [Hospital]?

K: Yes. And I did that for a while and just floated, where I could get back in on the
medications and procedures.

M: Primarily medical/surgical floors?

K: Well, you were all over the hospital; you just floated. And the hospital was very
small at that time.


M: Now what year are we talking about?









AL 173
Page 9

K: We came back up here in about 1955.

M: And so how long did you continue this type of work?

K: For about two years, and then I did part-time office work.

M: So when did you retire as a nurse?

K: Well in the meantime I married Edward. He is an orthopaedic surgeon. My
former husband had died of a lot of vascular problems after a lot of surgery. And
[Edward's] wife had died of cancer. Our two families had known [each other] and
had been friends for years. After I came back up here I started working for
Edward, I guess in 1969. And then I took over the management of his office and
did his surgical assist for the rest of the time, until he retired in 1983. I went back
to the University and went out and checked on my hours after we moved back up
here. There were no schools or anything around when we were down south.
But in the meantime, they had lost records. I had about sixty-four hours that I
had already done.

M: At the University?

K: They had lost the records from this school, because all of our classes were either
out at the University, or the professors from the University came over to our
nursing school and taught over there.

M: So you got no credit?

K: They could not find any [of the records], so I was going to have to start over
completely.

M: And that was just too much of a [hassle]?

K: Well at that point [it was], because my husband was ill and everything.

M: So you stuck with your original education and just built on your own research and
practice?

K: Yes.

M: Did you enjoy nursing?

K: Yes I did.

M: Do you ever regret not [earning] a liberal arts and sciences [degree]?

K: I guess occasionally, but I think I enjoyed nursing more. I regret that I did not go









AL 173
Page 10

ahead an finish up.

M: And get a bachelor's [degree]?

K: I think there was maybe one out of our class who did [finish up].

M: Do you remember who that was?

K: Yes, [it was] Esther Prince.

M: You had one pregnancy. Do you have any children?

K: I have two sons.

M: Have either one of them gone into medicine or nursing?

K: No. One is an electronic engineer, and the other is in building construction.

M: Do you have any nurses in the family?

K: No.

M: You have not practiced since the 1980s, but you must keep up on health care
and that sort of thing. What do you see in the future of nursing? Do you have
any idea where it is going?

K: I really do not.

M: Any impressions of what is going on now?

K: Well for one thing, I think the diploma school graduates were better nurses than
the others. We found this out after we were working in the hospital in Highland,
with people in our office that even in the hospital at that point were better-
satisfied with the diploma school than they were with the graduates, because the
graduates did not expect to do as much of the actual patient care as the other
girls did. And then the ones from the junior colleges just did not have
experience. They might come up and spend one or two weeks in surgery at
the most. And that would be __ We found that we spent months in surgery,
with those elements.

M: So [it was] the intense intention to clinical experience in the diploma program?

K: I just do not feel they are getting it in the graduate programs. Or, how do you
feel about yours? What sort of experience were you able to get?

M: I have a two year degree, and I felt the same way. I felt completely inadequate









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when I was let loose in the hospital.

K: We found this out, in the hospital and in our office. My husband was an
orthopaedic surgeon.

M: That is all of my questions. Thank you very much for your time.

K: It was nice meeting you, and I have enjoyed it.

M: Thank you.




Full Text

PAGE 1

AL 173 Interviewee: Marion Kissam Interviewer: Faith McCarthy Date: November 3, 1993 M: This is Faith McCarthy and I am interviewing Marion Kissam. Could you please tell me your name and give me your address? K: It is Marion Kissam. [My address is] Route #2, Box 12 5-30, Micanopy. M: Let me get a little bit of background on you. I w ould eventually like to work into your education and your career as a nurse. But I would like to start with a little bit of background. Where were you born? K: In Alachua. M: And you were raised there? K: Mostly in this area. M: Can you tell me a little bit about your family? K: I was an only child. Beyond that, what would you like to know? M: What did your parents do? Were they farmers? Or did they work? K: My father had a business in High Springs. We travel ed. He was an insurance business district manager for both metropolitan and ____ for years. We traveled. We lived in hotels and boarding houses a nd so forth. Until I started school, when I started [living] with my grandpa rents in Mobile. And then my parents were dissatisfied with that, so he took a demo tion back to a manager in Tampa, and I came back with them. And then we move d around mostly in Florida. His district was Florida, Georgia, and Louisia na, and that area. And then we eventually settled over in High Springs, wher e he went into business for himself. M: OK. So what age were you when you settled in Hig h Springs? K: Oh, I was probably about twelve, or somewhere in t hat area. M: And you grew up in that community and developed f riendships? K: Yes. M: So at what age did you graduate from high school t hen? K: [I was] seventeen.

PAGE 2

AL 173 Page 2 M: At that time, what were your thoughts about the f uture? K: Well I had planned to go on to college. In fact, I had a room reserved at Florida Southern. I had been accepted there and at Alabama, where my father wanted me to go. And I became interested in nursing due to M argaret Kingman, who was working this nursing school up at Alachua General [Hosp ital], or in Alachua County (at that time). I became interested in it and went in, really fully not intending to stay; it was just something different at t he time. And I really liked it. M: So when you were graduating from high school you h ad intended to go to college and study liberal arts? K: Well I had been offered a scholarship in music at tha t time. M: Do you play an instrument? K: [I play the] piano. M: So your parents must have been fairly supportive of the idea of you going to college? K: Oh yes, they definitely were. M: What did they think when you decided [to go into n ursing]? K: My father was very much against it – very much so. M: Do you have any idea why? K: No, not really. It was just the idea, I guess. I d o not know. The older people did not think much of nurses at that point, I think. M: And your mother? K: My mother was very supportive of it. My father cha nged his mind later on. M: Once you got into your program? K: Yes, later on. M: And maybe he saw how much you were enjoying it. Now I am not understanding this; the recruiter came to your high school and you got excited about the idea of nursing? K: I became interested in it at that time. Over the summer I think, my interest sort

PAGE 3

AL 173 Page 3 of grew a little bit more. M: Now the recruiter would be the recruiter from the cadet nurse program? K: Well, Margaret Kingman and Audrey Jones were settin g up the school here in Alachua County at the time. So actually, they were f rom the nursing school itself at the new hospital. M: Were you exposed to any of the other recruitments – pamphlets, posters, that sort of thing – from the cadet nurse? K: Not really. M: So you were not really attracted to the idea of t hat official uniform of the government? K: Not really. M: We talked about your family's ideas concerning nursing . What about your friends? Were they surprised when you decided [to do t his]? K: There were two other girls from my High Springs hi gh school graduating class that went in at the same time. One finished, and one was a cousin who did not finish. M: Tell me a little bit about the application process. You had to be a graduate of high school, right? K: Yes. M: What other restrictions do you remember? K: I do not remember any. I think you were supposed t o have been eighteen to go in, which I was close enough to. M: Now there were no black students at the program. Do you ever remember any discussion about that, or was it just assumed? K: I guess it was just assumed; none of the schools were int egrated here at that time. M: None of the high schools? K: No, no schools at all were integrated. M: What about the idea of men in the program? Was t here any talk?

PAGE 4

AL 173 Page 4 K: It was just all most unheard of; you did not even t hink about it, I guess. M: You were probably pretty unusual at this time; a y oung girl in the 1940s having the opportunity of a college education. Would you say that was quite unusual? K: No I think a number of my classmates either went on t o college or some sort of schooling. It was unusual though, because I guess the majo rity of the girls at that point really did not think about further schoolin g. M: So you feel like a lot of the women in your commun ity were able to go on to further education? K: A number of them did, yes. M: What do you think were some of the benefits of goin g through the nursing program at Alachua General Hospital when you did? K: Well I think we were very fortunate because we got extremely good training. They were striving to set the school up, so the standards were set very high. And almost all of our students scored very high on the st ate boards. M: Do you think that the requirements for the cadet nu rse program had anything to do with the requirements for the curriculum that were set up at the high school? K: I do not think so. I think it was Audrey JonesÂ’ curricu lum that was set up. She was an extremely good director of nurses. M: She had standard of what she thought nursing school [ should be]. K: I think it was mostly Audrey Jones. We never did thi nk much about the cadet nurse corps frankly, because we got in at the last, when t here were no uniforms or anything, and it was almost a forgotten issue by the time we finished. M: Do you think the idea of a free education attracted some of the women in the program? K: Oh I am sure it did, because there were a number in there that probably could not have afforded to go on to school at that point. M: Tell me about the idea of the maintenance program ; you were allowed to stay in the dormitory, you ate at the hospital, (I assume) you r laundry was done, you had supervision. What kind of attraction did that hold for you as a young woman? K: I do not know that it held any.

PAGE 5

AL 173 Page 5 M: The idea of leaving home and going into a safe en vironment; did that ever enter your mind? K: Well I was so close to home; I was just twenty-six mile s from my home anyway. I guess I was always pretty well independent anyway. I had my own car and otherwise, and I could come and go. I guess being indep endent all of my life, I never thought about it. M: Do you think some of the other girls might have fel t a little different leaving home? K: Probably so. M: What about your parents? Did that attract them – this idea of this supervised living arrangement? K: No more so than college. Of course, college was very restrictive at that time; it was very supervised. M: Looking back on it now, or even at the time, did yo u see any problems? From what I hear from many of the graduates, it was just th e most positive experience. Is that your [position as well]? K: Very much so. M: Going through an apprenticeship program where the student nurses were expected to carry the load on the wards, did you feel exploited at all? K: Not really. I mean, it was a learning experience, and I wanted all of the experience I could get. In fact, when I got into surge ry further on, in my second year, I took extra call in surgery because I enjoyed it. M: What sort of hours do you remember working? K: Long [laughter]. It was supposed to have been eigh t hours a day, including classes and all of the wards. But it never worked into t hat; it was always longer hours. And we had to be in the dormitory by 10:00 p .m. You signed in and signed out: where you were going, and what time you expected to be back. And you signed in when you came in. In the first six month s, we were maybe allowed one overnight, and one late leave until 12:00. And then it gradually worked up to, in the second year, maybe two – something like that . M: So you could go home, see family, and that sort of thing? K: The ones of us that lived close by. And the majorit y of us I believe, did live close

PAGE 6

AL 173 Page 6 by. [Or we lived] fairly close, anyway. M: Were you aware of the controversy over the accelerat ed program at that time? At this time in nursing they were shortening the time to just a three-year program, or thirty months. Were you aware of any of that? K: It had been a three-year program for quite some t ime when we went in. There were very few nursing schools on the four or five year program at that time. In fact, the one here was opened after – much later than that. M: The University program? K: Yes. And of course the two year program at the comm unity college was unheard of. M: As a young student nurse, what was your relationship with the doctors that you came into contact with at the hospital? K: I think we were probably taught to have more respe ct for doctors than is common. M: The war [WWII] was just ending, so were you working with a lot of doctors returning from the service? K: We had about eight or ten doctors in this town at t hat point. And then a year or so after the war, we began to build up different one s coming back. But you could count the positions here on your hand. And you knew al l of them extremely well. M: OK. Now what year did you graduate? K: 1948. M: So you spent three years in the program and develo ped a lot of relationships? K: Yes. Our class was a rather close class; all of our group was close. M: Now you started out with about thirty students? K: I think we were about thirty – probably thirty tw o. M: And [you] ended up with [how many]? K: About fourteen, I believe. And one or two of th ose were in the class below us, which was a small class. They just incorporated it [into o ur program] and these girls worked on and finished up after graduation, abou t six months or so [later].

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AL 173 Page 7 M: Now tell me about living in the dorms. You have talked about the checking in and checking out. You had a roommate the entire time? K: Our first year, we did not. We were on the third floor in private rooms; we had individual rooms at that point. M: And then you went down to the second floor? K: We were later moved down to the second [floor] wit h roommates. M: Tell me about moving down to the second floor and getting a roommate. Who was your roommate? K: I guess my first roommate was Paula Wells, probably. She was a girl from here in town. M: Did you develop a friendship that would last your life? K: I was not that close with this particular girl. M: But [were you close to] some of the other students? K: Oh yes. Some of us are still really close. M: Did you work together after graduation? K: I went into public health afterwards. The hospital only offered $150 a month and I could get $175 doing public health. But actually, I liked simple movement, rather than just working straight on the floor. I nev er enjoyed the floor duty I guess, as much as I did the special [work]. I was actually i n charge of O.B. at one time (the labor room) before I graduated. We w ere very short of help and had to add on night duty. And I enjoyed that very much. And then I had so much time in surgery in the last six months when they go t to checking hours, I did not have enough hours on the floor to graduate. So I had to go back and work the last six months. But they kept calling me back to surgery and requesting [me]. And these doctors would send me back the re every time. Because I did enjoy it. M: That brings up an interesting idea about the wages. The wages for nursing at that time were not that high. K: It was tough when we went here. Now I think salary here was probably lower because of the University veterans coming back; all of the ir wives were nurses, and looking for work. So there was no shortage of nurse s at that time. So [the wages] here were probably lower than in Jacksonville, or somewhere like that.

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AL 173 Page 8 Actually, the going rate for male college graduates at that time was only about $200 a month. M: So it really compared to other traditional, femal e professions? K: [We made] probably as much as teachers, or otherwise. M: Well tell me a little bit about public health. T hat is interesting. You went to work for the public health service here in Gainesville? K: Yes, my district was about half of the city of Gainesv ille, and the outlying areas around. And I had most of the students who were in to wn and most of the midwives that we supervised. M: So what sort of thing [did you do]? Did you do a lot of education of the public? K: It was mainly that, and holding well-baby clinics an d ruby clinics. We gave immunizations and then we did the outlying, smaller t owns. M: How long did you do that? K: For about two years. When I married, we moved aw ay from here. M: Did you continue to go in and out of nursing, or w as that pretty much the end of your career as a nurse? K: After we moved down south I was offered a small hosp ital over in Groveland – to administer. And I did that for probably a year and a half. And then I had medical problems: I had a ruptured disc, and then I was pregnan t. And at that point I decided that I would stay home with the children. So I did not work for about fifteen years after that. Well, I came back – we moved back up here. And I realized that I had gotten so far behind in medicatio ns and procedures that I came over and I relieved the night supervisors two nigh ts a week. There were two of them on [duty]. M: At Alachua General [Hospital]? K: Yes. And I did that for a while and just floated, where I could get back in on the medications and procedures. M: Primarily medical/surgical floors? K: Well, you were all over the hospital; you just flo ated. And the hospital was very small at that time. M: Now what year are we talking about?

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AL 173 Page 9 K: We came back up here in about 1955. M: And so how long did you continue this type of work? K: For about two years, and then I did part-time off ice work. M: So when did you retire as a nurse? K: Well in the meantime I married Edward. He is an orthopaedic surgeon. My former husband had died of a lot of vascular problems a fter a lot of surgery. And [Edward's] wife had died of cancer. Our two families h ad known [each other] and had been friends for years. After I came back up here I started working for Edward, I guess in 1969. And then I took over the man agement of his office and did his surgical assist for the rest of the time, until he retired in 1983. I went back to the University and went out and checked on my hours a fter we moved back up here. There were no schools or anything around when w e were down south. But in the meantime, they had lost records. I had abo ut sixty-four hours that I had already done. M: At the University? K: They had lost the records from this school, because all of our classes were either out at the University, or the professors from the Unive rsity came over to our nursing school and taught over there. M: So you got no credit? K: They could not find any [of the records], so I was go ing to have to start over completely. M: And that was just too much of a [hassle]? K: Well at that point [it was], because my husband was i ll and everything. M: So you stuck with your original education and just bu ilt on your own research and practice? K: Yes. M: Did you enjoy nursing? K: Yes I did. M: Do you ever regret not [earning] a liberal arts a nd sciences [degree]? K: I guess occasionally, but I think I enjoyed nursing mor e. I regret that I did not go

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AL 173 Page 10 ahead an finish up. M: And get a bachelor's [degree]? K: I think there was maybe one out of our class who did [finish up]. M: Do you remember who that was? K: Yes, [it was] Esther Prince. M: You had one pregnancy. Do you have any children? K: I have two sons. M: Have either one of them gone into medicine or nur sing? K: No. One is an electronic engineer, and the other i s in building construction. M: Do you have any nurses in the family? K: No. M: You have not practiced since the 1980s, but you must ke ep up on health care and that sort of thing. What do you see in the futur e of nursing? Do you have any idea where it is going? K: I really do not. M: Any impressions of what is going on now? K: Well for one thing, I think the diploma school grad uates were better nurses than the others. We found this out after we were working i n the hospital in Highland, with people in our office that – even in the hospital at that point – were bettersatisfied with the diploma school than they were with t he graduates, because the graduates did not expect to do as much of the actual pat ient care as the other girls did. And then the ones from the junior colleges just did not have experience. They might come up and spend one or two w eeks in surgery – at the most. And that would be ____. We found that we spent months in surgery, with those elements. M: So [it was] the intense intention to clinical experi ence in the diploma program? K: I just do not feel they are getting it in the gra duate programs. Or, how do you feel about yours? What sort of experience were you ab le to get? M: I have a two year degree, and I felt the same way . I felt completely inadequate

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AL 173 Page 11 when I was let loose in the hospital. K: We found this out, in the hospital and in our offi ce. My husband was an orthopaedic surgeon. M: That is all of my questions. Thank you very much for your time. K: It was nice meeting you, and I have enjoyed it. M: Thank you.