Title Page
 Table of Contents
 Roll of the Lords spiritual and...
 House of Commons
 Officers of state
 February 1830
 March 1830
 Chronological table

Title: Hansard's parliamentary debates
Full Citation
Permanent Link: http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00072012/00006
 Material Information
Title: Hansard's parliamentary debates
Physical Description: 361 v. : ; 23-25 cm.
Language: English
Creator: Great Britain -- Parliament
Hansard, T. C ( Thomas Curson ), 1776-1833
Publisher: s.n.
Place of Publication: S.l
Manufacturer: T.C. Hansard
Publication Date: 1829-1891
Subject: Politics and government -- Periodicals -- Great Britain -- 19th century   ( lcsh )
Dates or Sequential Designation: New ser., v. 21 (Mar./June 1829)-v. 25 (June/July 1830); 3rd ser., v. 1 (Oct./Dec. 1830)-v. 356 (July/Aug. 1891).
 Record Information
Bibliographic ID: UF00072012
Volume ID: VID00006
Source Institution: University of Florida
Rights Management: All rights reserved by the source institution and holding location.
Resource Identifier: oclc - 07655885
lccn - sn 85062630
 Related Items
Preceded by: Parliamentary debates (1820-1829)
Succeeded by: Parliamentary debates (1892-1908)

Table of Contents
    Title Page
        Title Page
    Table of Contents
        Page iv
        Page v
        Page vi
        Page vii
        Page viii
        Page ix
        Page x
    Roll of the Lords spiritual and temporal
        Page xi
        Page xii
        Page xiii
        Page xiv
        Page xv
        Page xvi
    House of Commons
        Page xvii
        Page xviii
        Page xix
        Page xx
        Page xxi
        Page xxii
        Page xxiii
        Page xxiv
        Page xxv
        Page xxvi
        Page xxvii
        Page xxviii
        Page xxix
    Officers of state
        Page xxx
        Page xxxi
    February 1830
        Page 1
        House of Lords - Thursday, Feburary 4
            Page 1
            Page 3-4
            Page 5-6
            Page 7-8
            Page 9-10
            Page 11-12
            Page 13-14
            Page 15-16
            Page 17-18
            Page 19-20
            Page 21-22
            Page 23-24
            Page 25-26
            Page 27-28
            Page 29-30
            Page 31-32
            Page 33-34
            Page 35-36
            Page 37-38
            Page 39-40
            Page 41-42
            Page 43-44
            Page 45-46
            Page 47-48
            Page 49-50
            Page 51-52
            Page 53-54
            Page 55-56
        House of Commons - Thursday, Feburary 4
            Page 57-58
            Page 59-60
            Page 61-62
            Page 63-64
            Page 65-66
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        House of Commons - Friday, Feburary 5
            Page 125-126
            Page 127-128
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            Page 123-124
        House of Lords - Monday, Feburary 8
            Page 179-180
            Page 181-182
            Page 183-184
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            Page 205-206
            Page 207-208
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        House of Commons - Monday, Feburary 8
            Page 211-212
            Page 213-214
            Page 215-216
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        House of Lords - Tuesday, Feburary 9
            Page 249-250
            Page 251-252
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            Page 247-248
        House of Commons - Tuesday, Feburary 9
            Page 267-268
            Page 269-270
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            Page 319-320
            Page 321-322
            Page 323-324
            Page 325-326
            Page 327-328
        House of Commons - Thursday, Feburary 11
            Page 329-330
            Page 331-332
            Page 333-334
            Page 335-336
            Page 337-338
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            Page 385-386
            Page 387-388
            Page 327-328
            Page 389-390
            Page 391-392
        House of Lords - Friday, Feburary 12
            Page 393-394
            Page 395-396
            Page 397-398
            Page 399-400
            Page 401-402
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            Page 429-430
            Page 391-392
        House of Commons - Friday, Feburary 12
            Page 431-432
            Page 433-434
            Page 435-436
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            Page 471-472
            Page 473-474
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            Page 477-478
        House of Lords - Monday, Feburary 15
            Page 479-480
            Page 477-478
        House of Commons - Monday, Feburary 15
            Page 479-480
            Page 481-482
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        House of Commons - Tuesday, Feburary 16
            Page 531-532
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            Page 529-530
        House of Commons - Wednesday, Feburary 17
            Page 569-570
            Page 571-572
            Page 573-574
            Page 575-576
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            Page 567-568
        House of Lords - Thursday, Feburary 18
            Page 581-582
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            Page 585-586
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            Page 589-590
            Page 579-580
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        House of Commons - Friday, Feburary 19
            Page 727-728
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        House of Lords - Monday, February 22
            Page 795-796
        House of Commons - Monday, Feburary 22
            Page 797-798
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            Page 795-796
        House of Lords - Tuesday, February 23
            Page 845-846
        House of Commons - Tuesday, Feburary 23
            Page 847-848
            Page 849-850
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        House of Commons - Wednesday, Feburary 24
            Page 919-920
            Page 921-922
            Page 923-924
            Page 917-918
        House of Lords - Thursday, Feburary 25
            Page 925-926
            Page 927-928
            Page 923-924
            Page 929-930
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        House of Lords - Friday, Feburary 26
            Page 1003-1004
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        House of Commons - Friday, Feburary 26
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        House of Commons - Saturday, Feburary 27
            Page 1059-1060
            Page 1057-1058
    March 1830
        Page 1059-1060
        House of Lords - Monday, March 1
            Page 1059-1060
            Page 1061-1062
        House of Commons - Monday, March 1
            Page 1061-1062
            Page 1063-1064
            Page 1065-1066
            Page 1067-1068
            Page 1069-1070
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        House of Lords - Thursday, March 4
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        House of Lords - Monday, March 8
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    Chronological table
        Page i
        Page ii
        Page iii
        Page iv
        Page v
Full Text







weW ie;riv







printeb bt (C. e. Vtangarb at tBe Watentorter.WtlA prers ,






ROLL of the LORDS SPIRITUAL and TEMPORAL in the Fourth
Session of the Eighth Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great
Britain and Ireland .... ....... . ... .. ... ........
Alphabetical List of MEMBERS of the HOUSE OF COMMONS of
the Second Parliament of GEORGE IV.-4th Feb. 1830.-11
GEO. IV. .... ........ ... 0.............. .. ..., ..........
Alphabetical List of COUNTIES, BOROUGHS, &c. and their REPRE-
SCOTLAND .. ........* *
IRELAND .,,,,..,....,.
Chief Officers of the House .................. ***
High Officers of State .. .......... .. .......... .............

CoM noNS.





Feb. 4. Address on the King's Speech
8. Greece ..................

East-India Company and Trade
Poor-Rate Returns .......

12. Settlement of Greece
15. Treaty with Austria
18. Currency .........
Candia and Greece
22. State of the Nation
25. Terceira...........

State of the Nation ....
Returns of Foreign Corn

SS.... .. .sst.. ..C...*.......* .......S
.........*......................S ... C
D mQ gQ Qg "D QD QI II II gt "I QO gI IQ
" i Q"0 ""U Q" OQO ,UQ BOO ,W

* ...... U *. S ,S C S S. .* C
. ,, D 6 I lI JD O I I O8 QO iO
.. OU DI U QO IO 6I Qg OO go

. be........ .C .*.. S S .
... **.. .tSSS ... ..C 5 5. 5. ..

British Timber

*... S .b11. S .. w.. ....

. ...... 1002

.. 1002

-v' ~Page
ib. 26. State of the Poor ................................. 1002
Salaries and Pensions ......... ......... .. ........ 1004
Mdrch 1. National Distress ................................. 1059
i- Conduct of Russia .............................. .. 1060
; Affairs of Greece ................. ................ 1062
4. East-India Affairs ............ ............ ..... ... 1245
'' Distress of the Country .............................. 1247
S Timber .................. ..................... 1253
Foreign Corn ..................................... 1254
5. Ecclesiastical Law............ ....... ............ 1305
8. Bank Notes ..................................... 1342


Feb. 4. Clergy, Churches, and Chapels ........................ 57
Ecclesiastical Courts.................................... 58
Address on the King's Speech ......................... 59
5. East-India Charter and Judicature-Lord Ellenborough's Letter 124
West Indies and the United States ...................... 133
Malt Duties ....................................... 134
Commons' Gallery-Admission of Strangers .............. 134
Unrepresented Towns ............................... 136
Private Bills ...................................... 137
Report on the Address on the Speech .................... 137
8. Motion for Returns'of the number of Barrels of Beer exported 210
Order in Council for consolidating the Laws relating to Slaves 213
Upon the Malt and Beer duties ........................ 213
Mexico, Cuba, and Spain .............................. 215
On the King's4peech ................................ 224
Compositions for Tythes ........................... 244
9. Small Debts ................... ........ ........ 267
Court of Chancery ................................. 270
Silver Standard ....................... .. ....... ...... 270
Court of Chancery ................................ 270
East-India Company's Charter.......................... 271
Exports, Real and Official Value ................... ...... 305
Supply ............................................ 35
11. Motion for Returns of Stamps on Irish Newspapers ........ 332
Bill for Relief of Smugglers families ..................... 332
Lord Ellenborough's Letter ........................... 334
Bill for the Abolition of Fees in Criminal Courts .......... .334
Bill for the Prevention of Bribery and Corruption in the
Borough of East Retford ......................... 334
Illusory Appointments-Court of Chancery .............. 363
Liability of Real Property.............................. 368
Commitments for Contempt of Court of Chancery ........ 369
State bf the Currency ............................... 381
Supply .................................... ...... 389

Feb. 11. Smugglers Families ................................ .. 3
S: 12. Illusory Appointments ............. ............... 429
S.. Supply-Reduction of Salaries ......... ....... .........
:: 15. Supply-Reduction of Establishments .................. 480
System of Banking .................................. 528
S 16. Army Estimates...................................... 535
Subletting Act (Ireland) ............................. 536
Settlement of Greece ................................ 544
Motion for Address on the Slave Trade .................. 568
17. Military Officers holding Civil Situations ................ 569
Fees paid by persons acquitted of Criminal Charges ......... 570
Clerks of the Peace .................................. 573
Return of Charitable Establishments in Ireland ............ 573
Supply ........................................ 580
Law Reforms..................... ...... ....... ... 650
Parliamentary Reforms ............................. 678
19. Ways and Means ........ ............. .......... 743
Supply-Reductions................................. 743
Committee of Supply ............................. ... 774
22. Court of Admiralty (Ireland) .......................... 795
Ways and Means-Quarantine in Georgia ................ 799
Committee of Supply-Army Estimates .................. 800
Game Laws ....................................... 845
23. Malt and Spirit Duties ............................... 846
West-India Duties ............ ...................... 848
Administration of Justice in the Colonies ............... 856
Representation of Manchester, Birmingham, and Leeds ...... 858
24. Dramatic Writings ................................. 918
Illusory Appointments ................ 0 .............. 918
26. Land Revenues .................................... 1005
The Distressed Weavers ............................ 1005
Leather Duties ................................... 1009
Dublin Jurors.................................... .... 1009
Truck System...................................... 1010
Supply of Water to the Metropolis ...................... 1010
Privilege-Parliamentary Agency ................... 1010
Committee of Supply ................................ 1041
MIarch 1. St. Katharine's Docks ................................ 1052
W ool Trade ....................... .............. 1063
Absentees .............. ....... ..... ........ ....... 1065
West-India Trade .................................. 1066
Misrepresentation of Mr. Brougham's Speech.............. 1068
Deputy Speaker of the House of Lords ................. 1075
Borough of Newark-Duke of Newcastle ............... 1077
Committee of Supply ............................. 1122
,, Navy Estimates ............................. .. ..... 1122
Ways and Means ............................... 1144
2. Wexfor4 Election Petition .,,,.........,,...,,,..... 1146

Mar. 2. St. Giles's Vestry Bill ............................... 1146
Currency ...................... ........... ....... 1147
Commissions of Lunacy ............................ 1148
Mr. Nash-Crown Lands ................................ 1154
Ex Officio Prosecutions.............................. 1167
3. Duty on Prints and Books ............................ 1246
Trials in Cork ....................... .......... .. 1246
Leeds Railway ..................................... 1256
Committee on Indian Affairs ......................... 1256
Ireland-Case of Francis McBrian ...................... 1258
Duty on Prints and Maps.. ................. ......... 1263
Law Reform ....................................... 1264
Reform in Colonial Judicature ......................... 1264
Military Punishment .................................. 1264
4. Church of Ireland ................................... .... 1265
Portugal ........................................... ... 1292
Supreme Court of Judicature at Bombay ................ 1292
Beer Trade ........................... ...... ... ... 1304
5. New South Wales-General Darling ................... 1314
Assessed Taxes .................. .................. 1316
Supply ........................ ..................... 1317
East Retford ...................................... 1319
Subletting Act (Ireland) .............................. 1341
8. Fees on Private Bills ................................. 1343
Affair at Patras .................................. 1350
Supply ....................................... 1352
British Museum ..................................... 1352
Bombay Judicature ................................ 1370


Feb. 4. The KING's SPEEICH on opening the Session .............. 1
The King's Answer to the Address on the Lords Commis-
sioners' Speech .............................. 124, 180, 212


Feb. 4. Address on the Lords Commissioners' Speech............ 121


Feb, 8. Order of the King in Council on the Condition of Slaves in
the West Indies ..,. ...... ....... ......... ..... 180



Feb. 5. PETITION from Limerick, against a renewal of the East-India
Company's Charter ....................... 124
- from Daniel Meagher and others, against the return
of Gerard Callaghan, Esq., to serve in Parliament
for the City of Cork ..................... 136
8. - for the Repeal of the Malt and Beer Duties ...... 209
---- from Cumberland, praying the House of Commons
to take into consideration the Distress of the
Agricultural and Mining Population .......... 209
- from Francis Lyons and others, against the return
of Gerard Callaghan, Esq., for Cork.......... 213
- from Charles Roper and others, complaining of the
Election for the town of Wexford ............ 213
-- from the Corn Market in London, against the Malt
and Beer Duties ......................... 213
- from Cumberland, complaining of Distress, and
praying for Relief ....................... 247
9. - from certain parishes in Cork, against the Vestry
and Subletting Acts ...................... 266
11. - from the Burgesses of East Retford, praying for
two Writs for the Election of two new Members 327
- from certain individuals, praying for Reform in Law 328
12. - from Proprietors of Coal Mines ................ 392
- from the Merchants of Plymouth, against the re-
newal of the East-India Company's Charter .... 429
-- --from Manchester, for a modification in the East-
India Company's Charter .................. 429
- from Tunstead, in Norfolk, for a revision of the Corn
Laws, and against the Malt and Beer Duties.... 429
- from Lincoln, on the Distress of the Country .... 429
- from Essex, on the State of the Country ........ 438
15. - from Chipping-Norton, complaining of the Agricul-
tural Distress, and praying for Repeal of Malt
and Beer Duties ........................ 478
- from Dr. Towsey, for the adoption of a remedy to
prevent Inoculation ................... ...... 528
16. - from Hindon, complaining of distress, and praying
for Reduction of Taxation .................. 529
-- from Clare, for the establishment of Poor-Laws in
Ireland ................................. 531
- from Leeds, against a renewal of the East-India
Company's Charter ........................ 532
17. - for Relief from the Tobacco and Snuff Duties,
from Snuff Manufacturers from London, West-
minster, and Southwark .................... 569
- ditto from Ipswich ......................... 569
ditto from Norwich ........................ 569
18. from Tanbridge, complaining of Distress, and pray-
ing for Repeal of Malt and Beer Duties ...... 580

'ipil Page
Feb. 18. PETITXON from the Ladies of Worcester, against the burning of '
Hindoo Widows ......................... 644
S- .. from Dublin, against the Subletting Act ........ 644
- -from Bilston, against the Truck System ........ 645
O: 19. .. involving a question of the Privileges of the House,
from Mr. T. E. Lee, of Birmingham .......... 727
- of the Commutation of Sentences .............. 734
S 22. - from the Jews, for Emancipation .............. 796
:t 23. from Romney-Marsh, praying for Alteration of
Duties on Wool .......................... 846
- from Suffolk, complaining of Agricultural Distress,
and praying for Repeal of Malt Tax .......... 846
- from West-India Planters, praying for reduction of
Duties on Sugar and Rum .................. 848
- from Sheffield, for the extension of the Elective.
Franchise to their Town .................... 858
25. - from the Jews, for Emancipation .............. 923
- from Carmarthen, against any alteration in Welsh
Judicature ............................. 924
26. --from Mr. J. Wright, of Nottingham, praying for re-
vision of Corn Laws ...................... 1004
- from Manchester and Hull, against the renewal of
the East-India Company's Charter............ 1004
- from the Roman Catholic Bishops, on Education in
Ireland ................................. 1005
- from Articled Clerks, against the Stamp Duty .... 1005
: - from the Cotton Weavers of Preston, on the Dis-
tress of their Trade ...................... 1005
- from Lincoln, complaining of Agricultural Distress
and Taxation ........................... 1008
- from the County of Salop, against the Malt and
Beer Duties .............................. 1008
March 1. - from Kent, on Agricultural Distress ............ 1059
- from Romney-Marsh, complaining of depression in
the Wool Trade ......................... 1063
- from Staffordshire, against the Truck System .... 1064
- from Kent and Sussex, against the Malt Tax .... 1066
- from the West-India Merchants of Bristol, against
the Sugar and Rum Duties ................. 166
-. -from the Catholics of the Island of Granada, against
Colonial Disabilities ...................... 1068
- from the County of Salop, against the Malt Duties 1076
- from Drogheda, complaining of Distress ........ 1076
S- from Newark .............................. 1077
-- from Mr. Burgess, of Lombard-street, on the Dis-
tress of the Country ...................... 1147
3. - from Manchester, for reduction of Taxation ...... 1238
4. - from Land-owners of Suffolk, on the Distress of the
Country .............................. 1247
... -from certain Land Proprietors, against the Leeds
Railway Bill ..................... 125


Mar. 4.

.PETITION from Foxford, Mayo County, respecting the Irishi
Clergy ................ ......... ....

- - from certain Jews, praying for Relief
- - from the County of Suffolk, complain
cultural Distress ..............

ning of Agri-
. . . .

from the Ship-owners of Whitby, complaining of
Distress .,. .. ......................




- - from Eye, complaining of Agricultural Distress .. 1345
- - from Bristol, complaining of Taxation .......... 1349


Against the Address on the King's Speech ..................
Lord Eldon's, on the Debate respecting the State of the Nation



LISTS of the Minority in the House of Lords on the Address
on the King's Speech ........................
- of the Minority in the House of Commons on the
Address on the King's Speech ..................
- of the Majority and Minority in the Commons, on Mr.
Calvert's Bill for the Prevention of Bribery in East-
Retford .............. ...................
- also of the Minority on Lord Howick's Motion on the
same subject ................. .. .............
- of the Majority and Minority in the House of Commons,
on the Marquis of Blandford's Motion for Reform ..
- of Majority and Minority in the House of Commons, on
the Representation of Manchester, Birmingham, and
Leeds . . . . . . . . .
- of the Minority in the House of Lords, on State of the
Nation ....................................

of the Minority in
Debate on the Priv

the House of Commons,

on the

March 1.

of the Minority in the House of Commons, on Mr.
Thomson's Motion respecting the Borough of Newark
of the Minority in the House of Commons, on the Navy
Estimates ..................................

of the Minority in the House of Commons,
Tennyson's Motion respecting East-Retford

on Mr.

of the Minority in the
Bombay Judicature Bil

House of Commons,

on the








His Royal Highness WILLIAM HENRY
Duke of CLARENCE and of SAINT
His Royal Highness ERNEST AUGUSTUS
His Royal Highness AUGUSTUS FRED.
Duke of SUssEx.
His Royal Highness ADOLPHUS FRED.
His Royal Highness WILLIAM FRED.
Duke of GLOUCESTER and of EDIN-

Lord Chancellor.
EDWARD Archbishop of YORK.
WILLIAM Archbishop of DUBLIN.
sident of the Council.
JAMES Earl of ROSSLYN, Lord Privy

Earl Marshal of England.

of Hamilton and Brandon.)

Steward of the Household.
(Electedfor Scotland.)
(Electedfor Scotland.)
THOMAS Marquess of BATH.
JOHN Marquess of BUTE.
WILLIAM Marquess ofTnoMOND. (Lord
Tadcaster.) (Electedfor Ireland.)
BRowNLow Marquess of EXETER.



the County of NORTHAMPTON.
G OQRG HORATIO Marquess of CUoL-
H.Em~Y Marquess CONYNGIIAM. (In
another place as Lord Steward of the
Household.) (Lord Minster.) (Elected
for Ireland.)




JAMES GRAHAM (Lord Chamberlain of
the Household.) (Duke of Montrose.)


Earl of



Earl of SUFFOLK and


Earl of



GEOR;k Earl of Essex.
(Duke of Buccleuch.)
.- '. 'Earl of BERKELEY.
wILLiAM HENiRY Earl of RocHFro D.


(Elected for Scotland.)
(Elected for Scotland.)
for Scotland.)


rl of EaRROLLr


lOME. (Elected

Earl of ELGIN and KINCAR-
(Elected for Scotland.)

(Lord Rosebery.)
EDWARD Earl of

(Elected for Scot-


and Earl




JAMES Earl GRAHAM. (In another place
as Lord Chamberlain of the Household,)
(Duke of Montrose.)

Earl of WARWICK.

Earl BROOKE and


Jonw Earl of CHATHAM

SV 1 1 Jk, UI
place a

Earl BATHURST. (hA another
s Lord President of the Council)
Earl of Hu LSWO RoUGii.
>,',< ~1'' -.^

(Lvmarquess oJf Jownsnire.) ,
J6HN CH4RLE Earl of CLx4aprip


GElRGE Earl of NORWICH. (Duke of
JOHN Earl STRANGE. (Duke of Athol.)
(Elected for Ireland.)
electedd for Ireland.)
Kingston.) (Electedfor Ireland.)
(Elected for Ireland.)
Silchester.) (Elected for Ireland.)
JOHN Earl of MAYO. (Elected for
KILLEN. (Lord Grinstead.) (Elected
for Ireland.)
WILLIAM Earl of WICKLOW. (Elected
for Ireland.)
RICHARD Earl of LUCAN. (Elected for
(Elected for Ireland.)
edfor Ireland.)
FRANCIS Earl of BANDON. (Elected for
DUPRi Earl of CALEDON. (Elected for
JAMES Earl of ROSSLYN. (In another
place as Lord Privy Seal.)
TioIM.s Earl of WILTON.
S(Lord Foxford.) (Elected for Ireland.)
Clancarty.) (Elected for Ireland.)

I EDWARD Earl of Powis.

for Ireland.)
LAWRENCE Earl of ROSSE. (Ehctled f
VILLE. (Elected for Ireland.)''
for Ireland.)
quess of Londonderry.)
of the Principal Secretaries of Suale.)
JOHN Viscount ARBUTHNOTT. (Elected
for Scotland.)
Viscount STRATHALLAN. (Elected for
(Duke of Leinster.)


HENRY Viscount HOOD.
(Elected for Ireland.)
GEORGE Viscount GORDON. (Earl of
CHARLES Viscount GORT. (Elected for
(Earl of Donoughmore.)
another place as Earl of Clancarty.)
JOHN Bishop of ST. ASAPH.

JOHN Lord CLIFTON. (Earl of Darnley.)
for Scotland.)
(Elected for Scotland.)
FRANCIS Lord GRAY. (Elected for
CHARLES Lord SINCLAIR. (Elected for
(Elected for Scotland.)
for Scotland.)
and STENTON. (Elected for Scotland.)
EDMUND Lord BOYLE. (Earl of Cork
and Orrery.)







(Earl of Egmont.)


(Duke of Argyll.)





(. (Earl

(Marquess of Donegal.)


(Viscount Clif-




Lord STUART of
(Earl of Moray.)

(Earl of Galloway.)
(Earl of Courtown.)

(Viscount Downe.)













JOHN Ld. FITZGIBBON. (Earl of Clare.)




JOHN Ld. FARNHAM. (Elect.for Ireland.)
(Elected for Ireland.)




(Elected fbr

(Marquess of

JOHN Lord LOFTUS. (Marquess of Ely.)
JoHN Lord CARYSFORT. (Earl of Carys-





(Earl of Shefield.)


(Marquess of Sligo.)


of Eglintoun.)







(Earl of







(Earl of Cas-

(Earl of













(Earl ofHopetoun.)






GEORGE Lord Ross.







(In another place

another place


of Glasgow.)

Earl of Ennis-



of Limerick.


place as



'ss of Lothian)

1 KER.



(Marquess of


(Earlof Wemyss and March.)



place as Earl of .Kingston.)
place as Earl of Longford.)


(In another










Lord GIxroRD.


other place



of Clanricard





SViscount Strang ford.)
*ord TADCASTER. (i



as Marquess of Thomond.)










another vlac

Lord FIFE.




(Earl of Had-





(In another p la

of Rosebery)


of Clanwilliam.)







MEM.--According to

the Usage of


the House appoints a

Committee, the Lords appointed to
Rank, beginning with the Highest;

to a Conference



ro forth

with the


in like Order

the Lord highest

: But when

the House, or for the

Purpose of proceeding

in Rat

in the Order of their
e sends a Committee,
nk is called first, en4 M
is called over for any
forth to Westminster .

Hall, or upon any public


the Call begins invariably with the Juniqr





(Earlof Ba


Marquess Conyngham.)

as Lord Chancellor.)


are named

when the Hous

the Whole House


(Corrected to the First Day of Meeting.)

ABERCROMBY, rt. lon. J. .. Calne
ACLAND, sir Thos. D., bt. .. Devonshire
A'COURT, Edw. Henry .. Heytesbury
ALCOCK, Thos. .. Newton, Lancashire
ALEXANDER, Henry .. Barnstaple
ALEXANDER, James .. Old Sarum
ALTHORP, viscount .. Northamptonshire
ANSON, sir George .. .. Lichfield
ANsoN, hoi. George .. Yarmouth
ANTROBUS, Gibbs Crawf Plympton
APSLEY, lord .... .. Cirencester
ARBUTHNOT, rt. hon. Chas. .. St. Ives
ARBUTHNOT, hon. H... Kincardineshire
ARCEDECKNE, Andrew .. Dunwich
ARCHDALL, Mervyn .. Fermanaghshire
ARKWRIGHT, Richard .. .. Rye
ASHBURNHAM, hon. P. .. Beeralston
ASHLEY, lord .. .. .. Woodstock
ASHLEY-COOPER, hon. A.W. Dorchester
ASHURST, William H. .. Oxfordshire
ASTELL, William .. .. Bridgewater
ASTLEY, sir John D., bt. .. Wiltshire
ATKINS, John .. .. .. Arundel
ATTWOOD, Matt. .. .. Callington
BAILLIE, John .. .... Hedon
BAKER, Edward .. .. .. Wilton
BALFOUR, James .. .. Crail, CSc.
BANKES, George .... Corfe-Castle
BANKES, Henry .. .. Dorsetshire
BANKES, William John .. Marlborough
BARCLAY, Charles .... Dundalk
BARCLAY, David ..... Penryn
BARzNG', sir Thos., bt .... Wycombe
BARING, Alexander .... Callington
BaRING, Francis .. Portsmouth
BARING, William B. .... Thetford
B.RNE, lMichll .. .. .. Dunwich
B4ASARb, Edm. Pollexfen .. Devonshire
BaSTARD, John .. .. Dartmouth
BATLEY, Charles H. .... Beverley
BEatjiONT, Thomas W. .. Stafford
BECKETT, rt. hon. sir J. bt. .. Haslemere
BECTIVE, earl of .. .. Meathshire
BELFAST, earl of ...... Belfast

BELGRAVE, vise .. .... Chester
BELL, Matthew .. Northumberland
BENETT, John ..... Wiltshire
BENSON, Ralph ...... Stafford
BENTINCK, lord George .. King's Lynn
BERESFORD, sir J. P. bt... Northallerton
BERESFORD, Marcus .. .. Berwick
BERNAL, Ralph .... .. Rochester
BERNARD, Thomas King's County,
BINGHAM, lord .. .. .. Mayo
BIRCH, Joseph .. .. ttinghw,
BLACKBURNE, John .. areushire
BLAIR, James .. ..... Minehead
BLAKE, sir Francis, bt. .. Berwick
BLANDFORD, marquis .. Woodstock
BONHAM, Henry .. .. .. Rye
BORRADAILE,R... Newcastle-under-Line
BOURNE, rt. hon. W. Sturg... Ashburton
BOUVERE, hon. Barth. .. Downtown
BOUVERIE, hon. Dunc. P. New Sarumn
BoYD, Walter ..... ... Lyminyglo
BOYLE, hon. John .. C 'i'k'shire
BRADSHAW, Rob. Haldane. Brackley
BRADSHAW, Jaes .. Brackley
BRECKNOCK, earl of .. .... Bath
BRIGHT, Henry...... Bristol
BROGDEN, James .. Launceston
BROUGHAM, Henry .... Winchelsea
BROUGHAM, James .. .. Trgiy
BROWNE, James .. .. M 1ty
BRowNLow, Charles .. Armaghshire
BRUEN, Henry .. .. Carlowshire
BRYDGES, sir John .... Coleraine
BUCK, Lewis W. ...... Exeter
BULLER, Charles .... West Looe
BURDETT, sir F., bt. .. Westminster
BURRARD, George .... Lymington
BURRELL, sir C. M., bt... New Shoreham
BURRELL, Walter ....... Sussex
BUXTON, John Jacob .. ,. Bedwyn
BUXTON, Thos. Fowell Weymouth
BYNG, George .... .. Middl~ex
BYRON, Thomas ...... Hertford
CALCRAFT, rt. hon. John .. Wareham

( xviii )

CALLAGHAN, Gerard .. .. .. Cork
CALTHORPE, hon, Fred. G... Bramber
CALTHORPE, hon. Arthur .. Hindon
CALVERT, Charles .... Southwark
CALVERT, John .. Huntingdon
CALVERT, Nicclson .. Hertfordshire
CAMPBELL, John .. Dumbartonshire
CAMPBELL, Walter F. .. Argyleshire
CAMPBELL, Archibald .. Glasgow, Sc.
CANNING, rt. 1on. Str. .. Old Sarum
CAPEL, John .. .. Queenborough
CAREW, Rob. Shapl. .Wexfordshire
CARMARTHEN, marquis .. Helleston
CARRINGTON, sir E. C. .. St. Mawes
CARTER, John .. .. Portsmouth
CARTWRIGHT, Win. R. Northamptonsh.
CASTLEREAGH, viscount .. Downshire
CAULFIELD, hon. Henry.. Armaghshire
CAVE, Robert 0. .. .. Leicester
CAVENDISH, ld. G. A. H. .. Derbyshire
CAVENDISH, Henry F. C, .. Derby
CAVENDISH, Chas. C. .. Newton, Hants
CAVENDISH, William Cambridge Univers.
CAWTHORNE, John F. .. Lancaster
CECIL, lord Thomas .... Stamford
CHAMBERLAYNE, Wm. .. Southampton
CHANDOS, marquis ...... Bucks
CHAPLIN, Charles .... Lincolnshire
CHAPLIN, Thomas .... Stamford
CHICIIESTER, sir A.,bt. .. Carrickfergus
CHICIIESTER, Arthur .. Milborne-Port
CHOLMELEY, M. J. ... Grantham
CHOLMONDELEY, Id.H. .. Castle Rising
CLEMENTS, viscount .. Leitrimshire
CLARKE, hon.. Chas. H. B. Kilkennysh.
CLERK, sir Geo., bt. .. Edinburghshire
CLIFTON, lord .. .. Canterbury
CLINTON, C. J. F. .. Aldborough
CLIVE, viscount .... .. Ludlow
CLIVE, hon. Robert H. .... Ludlow
CLIVE, Edw. B. ...... Hereford
CLIVE, Henry .. .. Montgomery
COCKBURN, It. hon. sir G .. Plymouth
COCKERELL, sir Chas., bt. .. Evesham
COCKs, James .. .. .. Ryegate
COKE, Thomas Wm. .. .. Norfolk
COLBORNE, Nich. W. R. .. Horsham
COLE, sir Christ. .. Glamorganshire
COLE, hon. Arthur H. .. Enniskillen
COLLETT, Ebenezer John .. Cashell
COOKE, sir Henry F. .. .. Orford
COOPER, Rob. Bransby .. Gloucester
CooPER, Edward Synge .. Sligoshire
COOTE, sir Chas. H., bt... Queen's County
CORBETT, Panton .. .. Shrewsbury
CORRY, viscount .. Fermanaghshire
CORRT, hon. Hen. T. L. .. Tyroneshire
COTTERELL, sir J. G., bt. Herefordshire
CouRTENAY',rt. hon. T. P. .. Totness

CRADocI, Sheldon .... Camelford
CRIPPS, Joseph .. .. Cirencester
CRBoKER,rt.hon. J.W. Dublin Univers.
CROMPTON, Samuel .. .. Derby
CURTEIS, Edward Jer. ... Sussex
CURZON, hon. Robert .. Clitherow
CUST, hon. Edward .. Lestwithiel
CUST, hon. Peregrine F. .. Clitherow
DALRYMPLE, Adol. J... Haddington, c.
DALY, James .. .. Galwayshire
DARLINGTON, earl .. Totness
DAVENPORT, Davies .... Cheshire
DAVENPORT, Edw. D. .. Shaftesbury
DAVIDSON, Duncan .. Cromartyshire
DAVIES, Thos. Henry .. Worcester
DAVIS, Richard Hart .... Bristol
DAWKINS, Henry .. Boroughbridge
DAWSON, Alexander .. .. Louth
DAWSON, Geo. R. .. Londonderry County
DAWSON, James H. .. Clonmell
DENISON, Wm. Joseph .... Surrey
DENISON, John E ... .. Hastings
DICK, Quintin .. .... Orford
DICK, Hugh .. Maldon
DICKINSON, William Somersetshire
DOnERTY, John .. .. Kilkenny
DOMVILLE, sir C., bt. .. Okehampton
DOTTIN, Abel R .... Southampton
DOUGLAS, Wm. R. K. .. Dumfries, c.
DouRo, marquis .. .. Aldeburgh
DowDEsWELL, John Edm. .. Tewkesbury
DOWNES, lord .. .. Queenborough
DOWNIE, Robert .. Inverkeithing, Sc.
DRAKE, Thomas T. .. Agmondesham
DRAKE, William T. .. Agmondesham
DaUMmOND, Henry H. .. Stirlingshire
DUCANE, Peter ...... Steyning
DUFF, hon. Alexander .. Elgin, ;c.
DUGDALE, Dugd. Stratf. Warwickshire
DUNCANNON, viscount .. Kilkennyshire
DuNCOMBE, Thomas S. .. Hertford
DUNCOMBE, hon. Wm. .. Yorkshire
DUNDAS, rt. hen. Wm. .. Edinburgh
DUNDAS, hon. sir R. L. .. Richmond
DUNDAS, hon. G. H. L. .. Orkney
DUNDAS, hon. Henry .... Rochester
DUNDAS, hon. Thomas Richmond
DUNDAS, Robert Adam .. .. Ipswich
DUNDAS, Charles .. Berkshire
EAST, sir Edward H. bt. .. Winchester
EASTIIOPE, John .. .. St. Alban's
EASTNOR, viscount .... Hereford
EBaINGTON, viscount .. Tavistock
EDEN, hon. Robert H ..... .Fowey
EGERTON, Wilbraham .... Cheshire
ELIOT, lord .. .. .. Liskeard
ELLIS, hon. G. J. W. A. .. Ludgershall
ELLIS, hon. Augustus F. .. Seafird
ELLISON, Cuthb... Newcastle-upon-fyne

( xiX )
ENcoMBE, viscount .. .. Truro GuIE, sir B. W. bt, .. Gloucestershire
ENNISMoRE, viscount .. Kerryshire GURNEY, Hudson .. Newton, Hants
ESTCOUvT, Thos. G. B... Oxford Univ. GYE, Frederick .... Chippenham
ESTCOURT, T. H. S. B. .. Marlborough HALSE, James .. .... St. Lives
EUSTON, earl .. Bury St. Edmunds HANDCOCK, Richard .. .Athlone
EWART, William .... Blechingley HARDINGE, rt.hon. sir H. Durham City
FANE, sir Henry .. Sandwich HART, George Vaughan .. Danegalshire
FANE, hon. Henry S. .. Lyme Regis HARVEY, sir Eliab .... .. Essex
FANE, John .. .. .. Oxfordshire HARVEY, Daniel W .... Colchester
FANE, John Thomas .. Lyme Regis HASTINGS, sir C. A. bt. .. Leicester
FARQUHAR, sir Rob. T. bt. .. Hythe HAY, lord John .. Haddingtonshire
FARQUHAR, James .. Portarlington HAY, Adam .... .. Selkirk, &c.
FAZAKERLEY, John N. .... Lincoln HEATIICOTE, sir Gilbert,bt. .. Rutland
FELLOWEs, Wm. Hen... Huntingdonshire HEATICOTE,. sir W. bt. .. Hampshire
FERGUSON, sir Ronald C. .. Dysart, &c. HEATHCOTE, Gilbert John .. Boston
FERGUSSON, Rob. C. .. Kirkcudbright HEATIICOTE, Richard E. .. Coventry
FETHERSTON,sirG.R.bt. Longfordshire HENEAGE, George F. .. ..Grimsby
FITZGERALD, Id.Wm. C... Kildareshire HERON, sir Robert, bt. .. Peterborough
FITZGERALD, rt. hon. Mau... Kerryshire H RRIES, rt. hon. John C. .. Harwich
FITZGERALD, rt. hon. W.V... Newport HILL, lord Arthur .. .. Downshire
FITZGERALD, John .. Seaford HILL, rt.hon. sir G. F.bt. Londonderry
FITZ-GIBBON, hou. Rd. .. Limerickshire HILL, sir Rowland, bt. .. Shropshire
FITZROY, lord Charles .. Thetford HOBHOUSE, John Cam. .. Westminster
FLEMING, John .. Hampshire HODGSON, Frederic .. Barnstaple
FOLEY, Edward T. Ludgcrshall HODSON, James Alex .. .. Wigan
FOLEY, John H. H .. .. Droitwich HOLDSWORTH, Arthur H... Dartmouth
FORBES, viscount .. Longfordshire HOLMESUALE, vise. .. East Grinstead
FORBES, sir Chas., bt. .. Malmesbury HOLMES, William .. Bishop's Castle
FORBES, John .. Malmesbury HONlYWOOD, William P ..... Kent
FORESTER, hon. G. C. W.. Wenlock HOPE, hon. sir Alex. .. Linlithgowshire
FORTESCUE, hon. Geo. M. .. Hindon HOPE, sir W. Johnstone Dumfries-shire
FOSTER, John Leslie .. .. Louth HOPE, Henry T. .... .. East Looe
FRANKLAND, Robert .. Thirsk HoRTON,rt.hn. R.J.W. Newcast.Staff.
FREMANTLE, sir Thos., bt. Buckingham HOTIIA, lord .. .. .. Leominster
FRENCH, Arthur .. Roscommonshire HOULDSWORTH, Thomas .. Pontefract
FYLER, Thomas B .. Coventry HOWARD, hon. Fulk G. .. Castle Rising
GARLIES, viscount .. Cockermouth HOWARD, Henry .. .. New Shorehani
GASCOYNE, Isaac .... Liverpool HOWARD, Ralph .. .. Wicklowshire
GILBERT, Davies .. Bodmyn HOWICK, viscount .... Winchelsea
GoocH, sir Thomas S. bt... Suffolk HUGHE, William Lewis .. Wallingford
GoRDON, sir James W. .. Launceston HULSE, sir Charles, bt. .. West Looe
GORDON, hon. Will. .. Aberdeenshire HME, Joseph .. .. Aberdeen, 6c.
GORDON, John .. .. Weymouth HUSKISSON, rt. hon. Wm. .. Liverpool
GORDON, Robert .. .. Cricklade HUTCHINSON, John H .. .. Cork
GOULBURN, rt. hon. Henry .. Armagh HUTCHINSON, John H. .. Tipperary
GOWER, lord F. L. .. Sutherlandshire INGILBY, sir W. A., bt. .. Lincolnshire
GRAHAM, marquis of .. Cambridge INGLIS, sir R.H. bt. .. Oxford Univers.
GRAHAM, sir J. R. G. .. Cumberland INNES, sir Hugh, bt. .. Kirkwall, &c.
GRANT, sir Alex. Cray, bt. .. Aldborough IRVIN, John ....... Bramber
GRANT, rt. hon. C. .. Inverness-shire JEPHSON, C. D. O .. Mallow
GRANT, hon. Francis W. .. Elginshire JERMYN, earl .. Bury St. Edmund's
GRANT, Robert .... Fortrose, Sc. JOLLIFFE, Hylton .. .. Petersfield
GRATTAN, Henry ...... Dublin JONES, John .. .... Carmarthen
GRATTAN, James .. Wicklowshire KAVANAGH, Thomas .. Carlowshire
GREENE, Thomas .... Lancaster KECK, George A. L. .. Leicestershire
GREVILLE, hon. sir C. J. .. Warwick KEKEWICH, Samuel T. .. .. Exeter
GROSVENOR, hon. Robt. .. Chester KEMP, Thos. Read ... ... Lewes
GRQSVENOR, Thomas .. Stockbridge KENNEDY, Thomas Francis .. Ayr, sc.
GUEST, Josiah John .. .. Honiton KERRISON, sir Edward, bt. .. Eye

( XX )

tlr.masE, eSpenser H .. Aldeburgh
KiNoirsiJohhn D., bt. .. Wycombe
Kinw, Son. Robert ..... Corkshire
.K hon. Robert .. Roscommonshire
(Ki.G,, hon. Henry .. .... Sligo
rNA:tCirBULL,. sir Edw., bt. .. Kent
'KntaaHT, Robert .... Wallingford
AKNox, hon. John Henry .. Newry
'-KNox, hon. Thomas .. Dungannon
LA rfO, HERE, Henry .. St. Michael's
,LAMB, hon. George ..... Dungarvon
*LaMBERT, James S. .. Galwayshire
LAcT'froN, James H .. .. Oxford
:iLASCE'LES, hon. W. S. .. East Looe
LASCELLEs, hon. Henry Northallerton
LATOuCIHE, Robert .... Kildareshire
LAWLEY, Francis .... Warwickshire
L L.ixE, William .... St. Michael's
LEGGE, hon. Arthur C. .. Banbury
LEGH, Thomas .. Newton, Lancashire
LLN.An.n, Thomas B .. .. Maldon
LE~r ox, lord John Geo. .. Chichester
LESTER Benjamin Lester .. Poole
LeriIBRAIGE, sir T. B.,bt. Somersetshire
-L~wis, t. hon.T. F. .. Radnorshire
LEYCESTER, Ralph .. Shaftesbury
LIDoDELL, hon. H. T. Northumberland
LINDSAY, hon. Hugh .. Forfar, Sc.
LIrNBAY, James .... .. Wigan
LITTLETON, Edward John Stafordshire
LLOYD, sir Edw. Price, bt. .. Flint
LLOYD, Thomas .... Limerickshire
LOCH, James .. .. St. Germain's
LOCKHART, John Ingram .. Oxford
LOeKHART, William Elliot Selkirkshire
Lona E, Edward ...... Arundel
;LoTT, Harry B .... ... Honiton
LovaINE, lord ... .... Beeralston
LOWTHER, viscount .. Westmorland
LOWTHER, sir John, bt. .. Cumberland
LOWTHER, lion. Henry C. Westmorland
LOWTHER, John Henry .. Wigton, sc.
LucY, George .. .. .. Fowey
LUMLEY, John S. .. Nottinghamshire
'LUSHINGTON,.rt. hon. S.R. Canterbury
LUSHINGTON, Stephen .... Tregony
LUSHINGTON, James L. .. Carlisle
LUTTRELL, John Fownes .. Minehead
LYGON, hon. Hen. B. .. Worcestershire
MABERLY, John .. .. Abingdon
MABERLY, William L. .. Northampton
MACAULAY, Coli .. .. Saltash
MAC0OiALD,, sir James, bt. .. Calne
IMACKeINNON, Charles, .. Ipswich
,'MACKiNTOsiI, rt, hon. sir J. Knaresboro'
MACKE~ZIE, sir J. W. bt. .. Ross-shire
MAb LtOD, John N. ... Sudbury
,M'NAU0GHTrEN, Edm. A. .. Antrimshire
\MlACotQrrU Thomas F. Bedfordshire

'MAITLAND, viscount .. .. Appleb
MAITLAND, hon. Antony.. Berwickshire
MAITLAND, Eben. F. .. Clippeham
MALCOLM, Neill .. *. .. .. Boston
MANDEVILLE, viscount Huntingdonshire
MANNERS, lord C.S. .. COnbridlysch.
MANNERS, lord Robert .. Leicestershire
MANNING, William .. .. Penryn
MAR.ORIBANKS, Stewart .... Hythe
MARRYATT, Joseph .... Sandwich
MARSHALL, John .. .. Yorkshire
MARSHALL, William .... Petersfield
MARTIN, sir Thomas B. .. Plymouth
MARTIN, John .. Tewkesbury
MAULE, hon. William R. .. Forfarshire
MAXWELL, sir Wm. bt. .. Wigtonshire
MAXWELL, Henry .... Cavanshire
MAXWELL, John .... Renfrewshire
MAXWELL, John Waring .. Downpatrick
MEYNELL, Henry .. .. Lisburne
MILBANK, Mark .... Camelford
MILDMAY, PauletSt.John.. Winchester
MILES, Philip J .. .. Corfe-Castle
MILTON, viscount .. .. Yorkshire
MONCK, John Berkeley .. .. Reading
MONTGOMERY, sir James, bt. Peebleshire
MOORE, George .. .... Dublin
MORGAN, sir C., bt. .. Monmouthshire
MORGAN, George Gould .... Brecon
MoRISON, John .. .. Banfshire
MORLAND, sir Scrope B., bt.. St. Mawes
MORPETH, viscount .. .. Morpeth
MOSTYN, sir Thomas, bt. .. Flintshire
MOUNTCHARLES, earl .. Donegalshire
MUNDY, Francis .. .. Derbyshire
MUNDY, George .. .. Boroughbridge
MURRAY, rt.hon. sir Geo. .. Perthshire
NEWBOROUGH, lord .. Carnarvonshire
NEWPORT, rt. hon. sir J., bt... Waterford
NICHOLL, rt. hon. sir John .. Bedwyn
NOEL, sir Gerard N., bt. .. Rutland
NORMANBY, viscount .. .. Malton
NORTH, John H ... Milborne-Pot
NORTHCOTE, Henry S. .. Heytesbuty
NoRTON, George C .. .. Guilford
NUGENT, lord .. .. .ylesbury
NUGENT, sir George, bt. .. BuckinghoF n
O'BRIEN, Lucius .... .. Clare
O'BRIEN, William S. .. .. Enpis
O'CONNELL, Daniel .. .. Clare
O'HARA, James .. .. .. always
O'NEIL, hon. John R. B... Antrimshire
O'NEILL, Aug. J.... Kingston-uponl-Hll
ONSLOW, Arthur ....... Guildfard
ORD, William .. .. .. M31peft
OSBORNE,.lord.F. G. .. Cambridgeshire
OWEN, sir John, bt. .. Pembrokeshire
OWEN, Hugh O. .. .. Pewbroke
OXMANTOWN, lord .. King's County

( xxi )

PaLK, sir Lawrence V., bt. .. Ashburton
PALLMER, Charles N. .... Surrey
PALMER, Charles F. Reading
PALMER, Robert .. .. Berkshire
PALMERSTON, visC. .. Cambr. Universe.
PARNELL, sir Henry, bt. Queen's County
PEACH, Nathaniel Will .. .. Truro
PEACHY, William .. Taunton
PEARSE, John .. .. .. Devizes
PEEL, right hon. Robert .. Westbury
PEEL, Jonathan ...... Norwich
PEEL, Lawrence .... Cockermouth
PEEL, William Yates .. .Tamworth
PELHAM, John Cresset .. Shropshire
PENDARVIs,Edw.W.W. .. Cornwall
PENNANT, Geo. H. D .. .. Romney
PENRUDDOCK, John H. .... Wilton
PERCEVAL, Spencer Newport, I. of W.
PETIT, Louis H .. .. .. Ripon
P-HILLIMORE, Jos. .. Yarmouth, Hants
PHILIPPS, sir R. B., bt. .. Haverfordwest
PHILIPS, sir Geo. bt. .. Wootton-Bassett
PHILIPS, George Richard .. Steyning
PHIPPS, hon. Edmund Scarborough
PIGOTT, Geo. E. G.F. Kinross-shire
PITT, Joseph .. .. .. Cricklade
PLANTA, Joseph .. Hastings
POLLEN, sir John W., bt. .. Andover
PONSONBY, hon. F. C... HighamFerrars
PONSONBY, hon. George .. Youghall
PONSONBY, hon. Will. F. S. .. Poole
PORTMAN, Edw. Berkeley.. Dorsetshire
POWELL, Alexander .. .. Downtown
POWELL, W. Edward .. Cardiganshire
POWER, Richard .. Wateifordshire
POWLETT, lord W. I. F. Durham Coun.
Poy'TZ, William Stephen .. Chichester
PRENDERGAST, Michael Geo. .. Gatton
PRICE, Robert .. .. Herefordshire
PRICE, Richard .... New Radnor
"PRIAILE, sir Wm. Henry .. Liskeard
PRITTIE, hon. Francis A. .. Tipperary
iPROTHEROE, Edward .. Evesham
FPYSE, Pryse .. .. .. Cardigan
-R'AE, sir William, bart. .. Harwich
-Rh 1NE, Jonathan .. Newport, Cornwall
R'A ISBOTTOM, John .. .. Windsor
RAMSDEN, John Charles .... Malton
RANCLIFFE, lord .... Nottingham
RidE, Thomas Spring .... Limerick
RteIB oRD, William .... Aylesbury
'Rf1;EY, sir M. W., bt. Newcastle-up.-T.
R&~BArTS, Abraham W. .. Maidstone
RoeitT-_, Wilson A. .... Bewdley
R' ai6rsoN,sir George, bt. Northampton
'R'siNsON, George R. .. Worcester
Rc'iLttORT, Gust. .. Westmeath County
RoPeRs, Edward ,, Bishop's Castle

ROSE, rt. hon. sir. Geo. H. Christchurch
ROSE, George P. .... Christchurdh
Ross, Charles .... ..St. Germain's
ROWLEY, sir W., bart .. ....Suffolk
RUMBOLD, Charles E .. .. Yarmouth
RUSSELL, lord John .. Bandon-bridge
RUSSELL, lord George W. .. Bedford
RUSSELL, lord William .. Tavistock
RUSSELL, John ...... Kinsale
RUSSELL, Robert G. .... Thirsk
RUSSELL, William .. Durham County
RYDER, right hon. Richard .. Tiverton
ST. PAUL, sir H. D. Chol. bt. Bridport
SADLER, Michael T .. .. Newark
SANDERSON, Richard .. Colchester
SANDON, viscount.. .. Tiverton
SAUNDERSON, Alex. .. Cavanshire
ScARLETT, sir James .. Peterborough
SCOTT, sir William .... Carlisle
SCOTT, hon. William .. .. Gatton
SCOTT,hon.Wm.H.I. Newport,I.of W.
SCOTT, Henry F. .. Roxburghshire
SCOTT, Samuel .. .. Whitchurch
SEBRIGIT, sir J. S., bart. Hertfordshire
SEFTON, earl of .. .. Draowiwtcl
SEYMOUR, Henry .. .. Taunton
SEYMOUR, Horace B.. .. Bodmyn
SHELLEY, sir John, bart. .. Lewes
SHIRLEY, Evelyn J. .. Monaghanshire
SIBTInOIP, Charles .. .. Lincoln
SINCLAIR, hon. James .. Caithness
SLANEY, Robert A. .. Shrewsbury
SMITH, hon. Rob. J. .. Buckinghamshire
SMITH, Abel .. ... .. Midhurst
SMITH, Christopher St. Alban's
SMITH, George .. .. .. Wendover
SMITH, John .. .. Midhurst
SMITH, Samuel ...... Wendover
SMITH, Thos. Assheton .. Andover
SMITH, William .. .. Norwich
SMITH, Robert V..... ... Tralee
SOMERSET, lord G.C. H. Monmouthsh.
SOMERSET, Id. Rob. E. H. Gloucestersh.
SOMERVILLE, sir Marc. bt. Meathshire
SOTHERON, Frank .. Nottinghamshire
SPENCE, George .. .. .. Ripon
SPOTTISWOODE, Andrew .. Saltash
STANLEY, lord .. .... Lancashire
STANLEY, hon. Edw. G. S. .. Preston
STARKIE, Le Gendre N. .. Pontefract
STEPHENSON, Rowland .. Leominster
STEWART, sir Mich. S. bt. .. Lanarkshire
STEWART, Alex,R. .. Londonderryshite
STEWART, John .. .... Beverl4y
STEWART, William .. Tyrone County
STOPFORD, viscount .. Wexfordsdke
STRATHAVEN, lord .. .. Grinstddd
STRUTT, Joseph Holden ., Okehamlpton
STUART, Id. Pat. J, Hr Cardiff

( xxii )

STUART, Henry V. .. Wlterfordshire
STUART, James .. .. Huntingdon
SUGDEN, Edward B. .. .. Weymouth
SURRY, Earl of .... ... Horsham
SUTTON, rt. hon. C. M. .. Scarborough
SYKES, Daniel .. Kingston-upon-Hull
TALBOT, Richard Wogan .. Dublinshire
TALMASI, hon. Fred. J. .. Grantham
TALMASH, hon. Felix T. .. Ilchester
TALMASII, hon. Lionel .. Ilchester
TAPPS, George W .. .. Romney
TAVISTOCK, marquis of .. Bedfordshire
TAYLOR, sir Chas. Wm. b'. .. Wells
TAYLOR, George Watson .. Devizes
TAYLOR, Mich. Angelo .. Durham City
TENNYSON, Charles .. .. Blechingley
THOMPSON, George L. .. Haslemere
THOMPSON, Paul B. Wenlock
THOMPsoN, William .... London
THOMSON, Charles P .... Dover
THYNNE, lord Henry .. .. Weobly
TIIYNNE, lord John .. .. .. Bath
THYNNE, lord William .. .. Weobly
TIERNEY, rt. hon. Geo. .. Knaresborough
TOMES, John .. .. .. Warwick
TOWNSHEND, lord Chas. F. .. Tarnworth
TOWNSHEND, lord J. N. B... Halleston
TOWNSHEND, hon.J.. R. .. Whitchurch
TRANT, William H. .. .. Dover
TRENCH, Fred. William .. Cambridge
TREVOR, hon. Geo. Rice .. Carmarthen
TUDWAY, John P. ...... Wells
TUFTON, hon. H... .... Appleby
TUITE, Hugh M. .. .. Westmeath
TULLAMORE, lord .... .., Carlow
TuNNo, Edward R .. .. Bossiney
Twiss, Horace .. Wootton-Bassett
TYNTE, Chas. Kemys .. Bridgewater
URE, Masterton .... .. Weymouth
UXBRIDGE, earl of .... Anglesey
VALLETORT, viscount .. Lestwithiel
VAN HOMRIGH, Peter .. Drogheda
VAUGHAN, sir R. W. bt... Merionethsh.
VERNON, Geo. Granv. V. .. Lichfield
VILLIERS, Thomas H. .... Hedon
VIVIAN, sir R. Hussey, bt. .. Windsor
VYVYAN, sir Rd. Rawl. bt. .. Cornwall

WArTIITMA, Robert .. .. London
WALL, Charles Baring .. Wareham
WALLACE, Thomas .. Yarm. I. of Wight
WALPOLE, hon. John .. King's Lynn
WALROND, Bethel .. .. Sudbury
WARBURTON, Henry .... Bridport
WARD, William .. .... London
WARRENDER, rt. hn. sir G. bt. Westbury
WEBB, Edward .. .... Gloucester
WELLS, John .. .... Maidstone
WEMYss, James ....... Fife
WEST, Frederick R. .... Denbigh
WESTENRA, hon. H.R. .. Monaghansh.
WESTERN, Charles Callis .. .. Essex
WETIIERELL, sir C. .. Plympton-Earle
WHITBREAD, Sam. Chas. .. Middlesex
WIIITBREAD, Wm. Henry .. Bedford
WHITE, Henry .. .. Dublinshire
WHITE, Samuel .. .. Leitrimshire
WHITMORE, Thomas .. Bridgenorth
WHITMORE, Will. Wolr. .. Bridgenorth
WIGRAM, William .... New Ross
WIRRAM, Sir Robt .. .. Wexford
WILBRAHAM, George.. Stockbridge
WILLIAMS, sir Rob., bt. Beaumaris
WILLIAMS, Owen ...... Marlow
WILLIAM, Robert .... Dorchester
WILLIAMs, Thomas Peers .. Marlow
WILLOUGHBY, Henry .. .. Newark
WILSON, sir Robert T. .. Southwark
WILSON, James ....... York
WILSON, Richard F .. .. Yorkshire
WINNINGTON, sir T. E. bt. Worcestersh.
WODEHOUSE, Edmond .. .. Norfolk
WooD, Charles ..... Grimsby
WooD, John ........ Preston
WOOD, Matthew ...... London
WOOD, Thomas .. .. Breconshire
WORCESTER, marquis of .. Monmouth
WORTLEY, hon. John S. .. Bossiney
WROTTESLEY, sir J., bt. .. Staffordshire
WYNDHAM, Wadham .. New Sarum
WYNN, sir Watkin Wm., bt. Denbighsh.
WYNN, rt.hn. C.W.W. Montgomerysh.
WYNNE, Owen .... .. .. Sligo
WYVILL, Marmaduke .. .. York
YORKE, sir Joseph Sydney .. Ryegate


( xxiii )




John Maberly.
T. T. Drake,
W. T. Drake.
Christopher Smith,
John Easthope.
C. J. Fynes Clinton,
Sir Alex. C. Grant, bart.
Marquis of Douro.
Spenser H. Kilderbee.
Sir John W. Pollen, bart.
T. A. Smith, jun.
Earl of Uxbridge.
Hon. Henry Tufton,
Viscount Maitland.
Edward Lombe,
John Atkins.
Rt. hon. W. S. Bourne.
Sir L. V. Palk, bart.
Lord Nugent,
William Rickford.
Hob. Arth. C. Legge.
Frederick Hodgson,
Henry Alexander.
Lord John Thynne,
Earl of Brecknock.
Sir Robert Williams, bart.
Thomas P. Macqueen,
Marquis of Tavistock.
Lord Geo. Wm, Russell,
William Henry Whitbread.

Rt. hon. sir J. Nicholl,
John Jacob Buxton.
Lord Lovaine,
Hon. P. Ashburnham.
Charles Dundas,
Robert Palmer.
Marcus Beresford,
Sir Francis Blake, bart.
John Stewart,
Charles H. Batley.
Wilson A. Roberts.
William Holmes,
Edward Rogers.
Charles Tennyson,
William Ewart.
Davies Gilbert,
Horace B. Seymour.
George Mundy,
Henry Dawkins.
Hon. J. Stuart Wortley,
Edward Rose Tunno.
Gilbert John Heathcote,
Neill Malcolm.
R. Haldane Bradshaw,
James Bradshaw.
John Irving,
Hon. Fred. G. Calthorpe.
Thomas Wood.
George Gould Morgan.

Thomas Whitmore,
Will.'Wolryche Whitmore.
William Astell,
Chas. Kemeys K. Tynte.
Sir H. D. C. St. Paul,
Henry Warburton.
Rich. Hart Davis,
Henry Bright.
Marquis of Chandos,
Hon. Robert J. Smith.
Sir George Nugent, bart.
Sir Thos. F. Fremantle, bt.
Alexander Baring,
Matthias Attwood.
Rt. hon. Jas. Abercromby,
Sir James Macdonald, bart.
Rt.hon. lord C. S. Manners,
Rt. hon. lord F. G.Osborne.
Viscount Palmerston,
William Cavendish.
Marquis of Graham,
Fred. Wm. Trench.
Mark Milbank,
Sheldon Cradock.
Rt. hon. S. R. Lushington,
Lord Clifton.
Lord P. J. H. C. Stewart.
William Edward Powell,
Pryse Pryse,

Jame aw Lushington,
gWWMf anm.Scott, bart.
Hon. C:. R.' Rice Trevor.
John ones.
Lord Newborough.
Lor4 Wdliain Paget.
Lord H. tholmondeley,
Hon. F. Grev. Howard.
Davies 3Davnport,
Wilbraham Egerton;
Viscount Belgrave,
Hon. Robert Grosvenor.
Rt.hoi. Id. J. Geo. Lennox,
William Stephen Povntz.
Eben. Fiikr' Maitland,
Frederiitk Gye.
Rt. hon, sir" G H. Rose,
Geor Ptt Rose.
Rt. hon. lord Apsley,
Joseph Cripps.
Hon. Robert Curzon,
Hon. P. P. Cust.
Viscount Garlies,
Lawrence Peel.
Daniel Whittle Harvey.
Richard Sanderson.
Ge6rge Bankes,
Philip 'Jhn Miles.
Sir R. Raw. Vyvyan, bt.
E. W. W. Pendarvis.


d E. Heathcote,
s Bilcliffe Fyler.

Josepf Pitt,
Robert Gordon,
Sir John Lowther, bart,
Sir J. R. G. Graham, bart.
John Bastird,

Sir W. W. Wynn, bart.
Frederick Richard West.
Lord G. A. H. Cavendish,
Francis Mundy:
Hen. Fred. C. Cavendish,
Samuel Crompton.
John Pearse,
George Watson Taylor.
Sir Thos. D. Acland, bart.
Edm. Pollexfen Bastard.
Robert Williams,
Hon. A.W. Ashley-Cooper.

Henry Bankes,
Edw. Berkeley Portma
Chas. Poulett Thomsor
William Henry Trant.
Hon. Barth. Bouverie,
Alexander Powell.
Earl of Sefton,



John Hodgetts H. Foley.

Michael Barne,
Andrew Arcedeckne.
Lord W. J. F. Powlett,
William Russell.
Michael Angelo Taylor,
Rt. hon. sir Hen. Hardiuge.
Hon. Will. Seb. Lascelles.
Henry T. Hope.
Earl of Euston,
Earl Jermyn.
Sir Eliab Harvey,
Charles Callis Western.
Sir Chas. Cockerell, bart.,
Edward Protheroc.
Sam. Trehawke Kekewich,
Lewis William Buck.
Sir Edward Kerrison,
Sir Miles Nightingall.

Sir Thomas Mostyn; bar.:
Sir Edw. Price Lloyd, bart
Hon. Rob. Henley Eden,

George Lucy.
Hon. William Scott,
Michael Geo. Prenderj
Charles Ross,

James Loch.
Sir Christopher C
Lord R. E. H. So
Sir Berk. Will. Gi



uise, bart;

Edward Webb,
Robert Bransby Cooper.
Frederick James Talrmash,;
Montague John Cholmeley.
^i /-t '

Charles Wood,
George Fieschi Heneag
Lord Strathaven,
Viscount Holmsdale.


George Chapple Norton,
Arthur Onslow.
Marquis of Carmarthen,
Lord J. N. B.B. Townshend.
Sir Will. Heathcote, bart.
John Fleming.
Rt. hon. sir Will. Rae, bart./
Rt. hon. John C. Herries.
Rt. hon. sir J. Beckett, bt.r
George Lowther Thompson.
John Evelyn Denigon, "
Joseph Planta.
Sir Richard B. Philipps, bt.
John Baillie,
Thomas Hyde Villiers.
Sir J. Geers Cotterell, bart
Robert Price. -
Viscount Eastnor,
Edward Bolton Clive,




Sir John S. Sebright,
Nicholson Calvert.
Thomas Byron,
Thomas S. Duncombe.
Edward Henry A'Court,
Henry Stafford Northcote.
Hon. Fred. Cav. Ponsonby.
Hon. Geo. M. Fortescue,
Hon. Arthur G. Calthorpe,
Josiah John Guest,
Harry Baines Lott.
Nich. Will. Ridley Colborn.
Earl of Surry.
Viscount Mandeville,
William Henry Fellowes.
John Calvert,
James Stuart.
Stewart Marjoribanks,
Sir R. T. T. Farquhar, bart.
Charles Mackinnon,
Robert Adam Dundas.
Hon. Lionel Talmash,
Hon. Felix Thos. Talmash.
Rt. hon. Chas. Arbuthnot,
James Halse.
Sir Edw. Knatchbull, bart.
Wm. Philip Honywood.
Rt.hn.ld. G.F.C.Bentinck.
Hon. John Walpole.
Augustus John O'Neill,
Daniel Sykes.
Rt. hon. Geo. Tierney,
Rt.hon. sir J. Mackintosh.
John Blackburne,
Lord Stanley.
'John Fenton Cawthorne,
Thomas Greene.
Sir James W. Gordon,
James Brogden,

( xxv )
Rt. hon. lord Rob. Manners,
George Ant. Legh Keck.
Sir Chas. A. Hastings, bart.
Robert Otway Cave.
Lord Hotham,
Rowland Stephenson.
Sir John Shelley, bart.
Thomas Read Kemp.
Sir W. Am. Ingleby, bart.
Charles Chaplin.
John Nicholas Fazakerley,
Chas. D. W. Sibthorp.
Lord Eliot,
Sir William Henry Pringle.
Sir George Anson,
George Granv. V. Vernon.
Rt. hon. Will. Huskisson,
Isaac Gascoyne,
William Thompson,
Robert Waithman,
William Ward,
Matthew Wood.
Viscount Valletort,
Hon. Edward Cust.
Hon. Geo. J. W. A. Ellis,
Edward Thos. Foley.
Viscount Clive,
Hon. Robert Henry Clive.
Hon. Henry Sutton Fane,
John Thomas Fane.
Walter Boyd,
George Burrard.
John Wells,
Abraham Wildey Robarts.
Thomas Barrett Lennard.
Hugh Dick.
Sir Charles Forbes, bart.
John Forbes.
John Charles Ramsden,
Viscount, Normanby.

Thos. Hen. S. B. Estoo~rtr
William John Bankes.
Owen Williams, ,
Thomas Peers Williams.
Sir Scrope B. Morland, bt.
Sir C. E. Carrington, bart.
Sir Rob. W. Vaughan, bt.
Henry Labouchere,
William Leake.
George Byng,
Samuel Chas. Whitbread.
John Smith,
Abel Smith.
Arthur Chichester,
John Henry North.
John Fownes Luttrell,
James Blair.
Sir Charles Morgan, bart.
Rt.hn. d. G.C.H.Somerset,
Marquis of Worcester.
Rt. hon. C. W. W. Wynn.
Henry Clive.
Viscount Morpeth,
William Ord.
Henry Willoughby,
Michael Thomas Sadler.
Rt. hon. R. J. W. Horton,
Richardson Borradaile.
Sir M. W. Ridley, bart.,
Cuthbert Ellison.
Rt. hn. W. F. V. Fitzgerald,
Jonathan Raine.
Hon. Wm. Hen. J. Scott,
Spencer Perceval.
Thomas Legh,
Thomas Alcock.
Hudson Gurney,
Chas. Comptoh Cavendish,

Thomas William Coke,
Edmond Wodehouse.
Hon. Henry Lascelles,
Sir John P. Beresford, bart.
Viscount Althorp,
Wm. Ralph Cartwright.
Sir G. Robinson, bart.
William Leader Maberly.
Hon. Henry Thos. Liddell,
Matthew Bell.
William Smith,
Jonathan Peel.
Frank Sotheron,
John Saville Lumley.,
Joseph Birch,
Lord Rancliffe.
Sir Compton Domville, bt.
Joseph Holden Strutt.
Sir Henry Fred. Cooke,
Quintin Dick.
William Henry Ashurst,
John Fane.
Jas. Haughton Langston,
John Ingram Lockhart.
Thomas G. B. Estcourt,
Sir Robert Harry Inglis, bt.
Sir John Owen, bart.
Hugh Owen Owen.
David Barclay,
William Manning.
Sir Robert Heron, bart.
Sir James Scarlett.
Hylton Jolliffe,
William Marshall.
Rt. hon. sir G. Cockburn,
Sir Thos. B, Martin, bart.
Gibbs Crawfurd Antrobus,
Sir ehaM, Wetherell, knt,

( xxvi )
Thomas Houldsworth,
Le Gendre N. Starkie.
Hon. W. F. S. Ponsonby,
Benjamin Lester Lester,
John Bonham Carter,
Francis Baring.
Hon. E. G. S. Stanley,
John Wood.
Rt hon. lord Downes,
John Capel,
Rt. hon. Thomas F. Lewis.
Richard Price.
John Berkeley Monck,
Charles Fyshe Palmer.
Hon. Thomas Dundas,
Hon. sir R. L. Dundas.
Louis Hayes Petit,
George Spence.
Hon. Henry Dundas,
Ralph Bernal,
Geo. Hay Dawk. Pennant,
George William Tapps.
Sir Gerard Noel Noel, bt.
Sir Gilbert Heathcote, bt.
Richard Arkwright,
Henry Bonham.
Sir Joseph Sidney Yorke,
James Cocks.
Sir Rowland Hill, bart.
John Cressett Pelham.
Andrew Spottiswoode,
Colin Macaulay.
Joseph Marryatt.
Sir Henry Fane.
Hon. Dune. P. Bouverie,
Wadham Wyndham.
Rt. hon. Stratford Canning.
James Alexander,

Rt. hon. Chas. M. Sutton,
Hon. Edmond Phipps.
Hon. Augustus Fred. Ellis,
John Fitzgerald.
Ralph Leycester,
Edward Davies Davenport.
Sir Chas. M. Burrell, bt.
Henry Howard.
Panton Corbett,
Robert Aglionby Slaney.
William Dickinson,
Sir T. B. Lethbridge, bart.
William Chamberlayne,
Abel Rous Dottin.
Charles Calvert,
Sir Robert Thos. Wilson.
Edward John Littleton,
Sir John Wrottesley, bart.
Ralph Benson,
Thos. W. Beaumont.
Rt. hon. lord Thomas Cecil,
Thomas Chaplin.
George Richard Philips,
Peter Du Cane.
Thomas Grosvenor,
George Wilbraham.
Bethel Walrond,
John Norman Macleod.
Sir Thos. Sherl. Gooch, bt.
Sir William Rowley, bart.
William Joseph Denison,
Charles Nicholas Pallmer.
Walter Burrell,
Edward Jeremiah Curteis,
Rt. hn. Id. C.V. Townshend,
William Yates Peel.
Rt. hon, vise. Ebj iglton,
Rt. hon. lord Wm, Rusl.

Henry Seymour,
William Peachy.
John Edmund Dowdeswell,
John Martin.
Rt. hon.lord Chas. Fitzroy,
William Bingham Baring.
Robert Frankland,
Robt. Greenhill Russell.
Viscount Sandon,
Rt. hon. Richard Ryder.
Thos. Peregrine Courtenay,
Earl of Darlington.
Stephen Lushington,
James Brougham.
Viscount Encombe,
Nathaniel William Peach.
William Lewis Hughes,
Robert Knight.
Rt. hon. John Calcraft,
Charles Baring Wall.
Dugdale Strat. Dugdale,
Francis Lawley.
Hon. sir Chas. J. Greville,
John Tomes.
Sir Chas. Wm. Taylor, bt.
John Paine Tudway.
Samuel Smith,
George Smith.
Hon. Geo. C. W. Forester,
Paul Beilby Thompson.
Rt. hon.lord H. F. Thynne,
Rt. hon. lord Wm. Thynne.
Right hon. Robert Peel,
Rt. hon. sir G. Warrender.
Charles Buller,
Sir Charles Hulse, bart.
Sir Francis Burdett, bart.
John Cam Hobhouse,

( xxvii )
Viscount Lowther,
Hon. Hen. Cecil Lowther.
Masterton Ure,
Thos. Fowell Buxton,
John Gordon,
Edw. Burtenshaw Sugden.
Hon. John R. Townshend,
Samuel Scott.
James Alex. Hodson,
James Lindsay.
John Hung. Penruddocke,
Edward Baker.
John Benett,
Sir John Dugd. Astley, bt.
Viscount Howick,
Henry Brougham.
Sir Edward Hyde East, bt.
Paulet St. John Mildmay.
Sir Richard Hussey Vivian.
John Ramsbottom.
Marquis of Blandford,
Lord Ashley.
Sir George Philips, bt.
Horace Twiss.
Sir T. E. Winnington, bt.
Hon. Henry B. Lygon.
Thomas Henry H. Davies,
George Richard Robinson.
Sir John D. King, bart.
Sir Thomas Baring, bart.
Hon. George Anson,
Charles Edmund Rumbold.
Joseph Phillimore.
Thomas Wallace,
Viscount Milton,
Hon. William Duncombe,
Richard Fountayne Wilson,
John Marshall.
Marmaduke Wyvill,
James Wilson.

Hon. William Gordon.
Joseph Hume.
Walter Fred. Campbell.

AYR, &C.
Thos. Fras. Kennedy.
John Morison.
Hon. Anthony Maitland.
Hon. James Sinclair.
James Balfour.
Duncan Davidson, jun.
John Campbell.
Sir Will. Johnstone Hope.
William Rob. K. Douglas.
Sir Ronald C. Ferguson.
Sir George Clerk, bart.
Right hon. Will. Dundas.
Hon. Francis Will. Grant.
Hon. Alexander Duff.
James Wemyss.
Hon. Will. Ramsay Maule.
Hon. Hugh Lindsay.
Robert Grant.
Archibald Campbell.
Lord John Hay.
Adolphus John Dalrymple.
Robert Downie.
Right hon. Charles Grant,
Hon. Hugh Arbuthnot,

N .\ N' I Il '.
'e4brge Edw. G. F. Pigott.
Robert Cutlar Fergusson.
Sir Hugh Innes, bart.
Sir Michael S. Stewart, bt.
Hori. sir Alexander Hope.
Hon. Geo. H. L. Dundas.
Sir Jas. Montgomery, bart.
Rt. hon. sir George Murray.
'Jhn Maxwell.
Sir J. W. Mackenzie.
eHeary Francis Scott, jun.
William Elliot Lockhart.
Adam Hay.
MHenry Home Drummond.
Rt. hon. lord F. L. Gower.
Sir William Maxwell, bart.
John H. Lowther.

Hon. John B. R. O'Neil,
Edm. Alex. M'Naughten.
Hon. Henry Caulfield,
bCarles Brownlow.
,Rt. hon. Henry Goulburn.
Richard Handcock, jun.
Rt. hon. lord John Russell.
Earl of Belfast.
Henry Bruen,
Thomas Kavanagh.
Lord Tullamore,

( xxviii )
Sir Arthur Chichester, bt.
Ebenezer John Collett.
Henry Maxwell,
Alexander Saunderson.
Lucius O'Brien,
Daniel O'Connell.
Jas. Hewitt Massy Dawson.
Sir John Will. H. Brydges.
Hon. Robert King,
Hon. John Boyle.
John Hely Hutchinson.
Gerrard Callaghan.
Earl of Mountcharles,
George Vaughan Hart.
Lord Arthur Hill,
Viscount Castlereagh.
John Waring Maxwell.
Peter Van Homrigh.
Henry White,
Richard Wogan Talbot,
George Moore,
Henry Grattan.
Rt. hon. John W. Croker.
Charles Barclay.
Hon. Thomas Knox.
Hon. George Lamb.
William Smyth O'Brien.
Hon. Arthur Henry Cole.
Mervyn Archdall,
Viscount Corry.
James Daly,
James Staunton Lambert.
James O'Hara.
Rt hon. Mau. Fitzgerald,
Viscount Ennismore,

Rt.hn. ld.W.C. Fi'zgeraiM,
Robert Latouche.
Hon. Chas. H. B. Clarke,
Viscount Duncannon.
John Doherty.
Thomas Bernard.
Lord Oxmantown.
John Russell.
Viscount Clements,
Samuel White.
Hon. Rich. H. Fitzgibbon,
Thomas Lloyd.
Thomas Spring Rice:.
Henry Meynell.
George Robert Dawson,
Alexander Robert Stewart.
Rt. hon. sir G. F. Hill, bart.
Rt. hon. viscount Forbes.
Sir Geo. R. Fetherstone, bt.
Alexander Dawson,
John Leslie Foster.
Charles D. O. Jephson.
Lord Bingham,
James Browne.
Earl of Bective,
Sir Marcus Somerville, bt.
Evelyn John Shirley,
Hon. Hen. Rob. Westertn4.
Hon. John Henry Knox.Y'
P(nRT. RLINu;r,. r :
James Farquhar.
Sir Chas. Henry Coote, bt.
SSir Henry Parntll, baiI.
Arthur French,
Hon. Robert King.
NEW Ross, Town,
William Wigram.

Hoxn. enry King,
Edward Synge Cooper,
Owen Wynne.
Hon. Francis A. Prittie,
John Hely Hutchinson.
Robert Vernon Smith.

William Stewart,
Hon. H. T. Lowry Corry.
Richard Power,
Henry Villiers Stuart.
Rt. hon. sir J. Newport, bt.
Gustavus Rochfort,
Hugh Morgan Tuite.

Rt. hon. viscount Stopfoid,
Rob. Shapland Carewv jgF.
Sir Robt. Wigram, knt.,
James Grattan.
Ralph Howard.
Hon. George Pousonbyo.1

The NUMBER of MEMBERS sent by each County, &c. to Parliamentr

Bedfordshire ........
Berkshire ..........
Buckinghamshire .... 1,
Cambridgeshire ......
Cheshire...... .....
Cornwall .......... 4!
Cumberland ........
Devonshire.......... 2(
Dorsetshire.......... 2i
Essex .............
Gloucestershire ......
Huntingdonshire ....


Kent ......
Middlesex ..
Norfolk ....
Shropshire ..

........ 10
........ 14
. ... 41
........ 12

re...... 3
....... 12
hire .... 9
nd .... 8
ire .... 8
. ... ... 9
. ..... 2
. .. .... 12
........ 18
........ 26
. . 10

.. SCOTLAND .........
.. IRELAND ..........

Suffolk ........
Surrey ........
Sussex ..... ..
Westmoreland -..
Wiltshire ......
Worcestershire ..
Yorkshire ......

Cinque Ports
Ireland ....

Total ..

.:...*. *6
.:... 14
Si.. 20
.. .. 6


.... 4
.. 34

... 32


........ 24
. ......:.a 45

........ 658
ri-; \.

...... 513
...... 45
...... 100



1Cef lerk, JOHN HENRY LEY, Esq.
Clerk Assistant, JOHN RICKMAN, Esq.
Secpnd pitto, WILLIAM LEY, Esq.
Clerk of Committees of Privileges ai
Elections, THOMAS DYSON, Esq.
Prin, Comr. Clks., SIR E. STRACEY, Bar
ahd 'WILLIAM G. ROSE. Esqrs.


Clerk of the Journals and Papers, Jpny
BULL, Esq.
Clerks of the Ingrossments, SIK EDWARD
STRACEY, Bart., and Mr.. DavIp
1 Sergeant at Arms, HEN. SEYMOUR, Esq.
Chaplain, Rev. CHARLES NORMAN. ; i
Secretary to Speaker, ED. PHILPS, ,E.

-* ~~ & ^?

; .3.



(APRIL, 1829.)




Duke of Wellington ......
Right Hon. Henry Goulburn
Lord Lyndhurst .........
Earl Bathurst ............
Earl of Rosslyn ....... ..
Right Hon. Robert Peel ....
Earl of Aberdeen ..........
Right Hon. Sir Geo. Murray
Lord Viscount Melville ....
Right Hon. John C. Herries
Lord Ellenborough ........
Right Hon. W V. Fitzgerald

First Lord of the Treasury (Prime Minister).
Chancellor and Under Treasurer of the Excheqt
Lord High Chancellor.
Lord President of the Council.
Lord Privy Seal.
Secretary of State for the Home Department.
Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs.
Secretary of State for the Colonial Department.
First Lord of the Admiralty.
Master of the Mint.
President of the Board of Control.
Treasurer of the Navy, and President of the Boc


The above form

the Cabinet.

Right Hon. Sir Hen. Hardinge
Viscount Beresford ........
Duke of Montrose ........
Marquis Conyngham ......
Duke of Leeds............
Marquis of Winchester ....
Right Hon Ch. Arbuthnot..
Right Hon. John Calcraft ..
Viscount Lowther ........
Thomas P. Courtenay, Esq...
Duke of Manchester ......
Sir William Henry Clinton..
Sir James Scarlett, Knt.....
Sir Edward B. Sugden, Knt.

Secretary at War.
Master General of the Ordn\
Lord Chamberlain.
Lord Steward.
Master of the Horse.
.Groom of the Stole.
Chancellor of the Duchy of.
Paymaster of the Forces.
First Commissioner of Land
Vice President of the Board
Postmaster General.
Lieut.-general of the Ordnan
Attorney General.
Solicitor General.


Duke of Northumberland ..
Rt. Hon. Sir Anth. Hart, Knt.
Lieut.-Gen. sir John Byng ..
Lord Francis Levison Gower
Rt. Hon. Sir G. Fitz. Hill, Bt.
Rt. Hon. Henry Joy ......
John Doherty, Esq.........


Lord Lieutenant.
Lord High Chancellor.
Commander of the Forces.
Chief Secretary.
Vice Treasurer of the Exchequer
Attorney General.
Solicitor General


trd of



of Trade.


Shortly will be Published,






















OF ENGLAND from the earliest Period to th

e Year 1803.





from the

1803 to the present Time.


An INDEX containing the Name of

Member who took

a part

in the said Proceedings and Debates.





will be first



*4* Such progress

has been made,

that it is




this important Volume

in the course of 1830.




of the United Kingdom of GREAT BRITAIN and IRELAND,


to meet




in the



Reign of His Majesty




Thursday, February 4th, 1830.
The Fourth Session of the Eighth Parlia-
ment of the United Kingdom of Great
Britain and Ireland was this day opened
by Commission. The Lords Commis-
sioners were the Lord Chancellor (LY ND-
iHnsT) ; the Lord President of the Coun-
cil (BATHURST); the Lord Privy Seal
(RossLwYN); the First Lord of the Treasury
(WELLINGTON); and the Secretary of
State for Foreign Affairs, (ABERDEEN).
Mr. Pulman, acting for Mr. Quarme the
Yeoman Usher of the Black Rod, sum-
moned the attendance of the Commons ;
and the Speaker, attended by numerous
Members, appearing at their lordships'
bar, (the Commission for opening the Par-
liament having been read) the Lord Chan-
cellor delivered the Speech of the Lords
Commissioners to both Houses of Parlia-
ment, which was as follows:-
My Lords, and Gentlemen,
We are commanded by His Majesty to
inform you, that His Majesty receives from

all Foreign Po
rances of their

wers the strongest Assu-


cultivate the most friendly;
this Country.
VOL. XXII. (s{ }

to maintain and

Relations with

His Majesty has seen with Satisfaction
that the War between Russia and the Ot-
toman Porte has been brought to a Con-


The Efforts of His Majesty to




Treaty of the 6th July 1827

have been

His Majesty, having recently concerted
with His Allies. Measures for the Pacifica-
tion and final Settlement of Greece, trusts

that He shall be enabled,

at an early Pe-

riod, to communicate to you the Particu-

lars of this

Arrangement, with such Inform-

action as may explain the Course which
His Majesty has pursued throughout the
Progress of these important Transactions.
His Majesty laments that He is unable
to announce to you the Prospect of a Re-



the Princes of the

House of Braganza.
His Majesty has not yet deemed it ex-
pedient to re-establish, upon their ancient
Footing, His Majesty's Diplomatic Rela-
tions with the Kingdom of Portugal; but


from the continued



Interruption of these

Relations increase His Majesty's Desire to
effect the Termination of so serious an Evil.




of the United Kingdom of GREAT BRITAIN and IRELAND,


to meet




in the



Reign of His Majesty




Thursday, February 4th, 1830.
The Fourth Session of the Eighth Parlia-
ment of the United Kingdom of Great
Britain and Ireland was this day opened
by Commission. The Lords Commis-
sioners were the Lord Chancellor (LY ND-
iHnsT) ; the Lord President of the Coun-
cil (BATHURST); the Lord Privy Seal
(RossLwYN); the First Lord of the Treasury
(WELLINGTON); and the Secretary of
State for Foreign Affairs, (ABERDEEN).
Mr. Pulman, acting for Mr. Quarme the
Yeoman Usher of the Black Rod, sum-
moned the attendance of the Commons ;
and the Speaker, attended by numerous
Members, appearing at their lordships'
bar, (the Commission for opening the Par-
liament having been read) the Lord Chan-
cellor delivered the Speech of the Lords
Commissioners to both Houses of Parlia-
ment, which was as follows:-
My Lords, and Gentlemen,
We are commanded by His Majesty to
inform you, that His Majesty receives from

all Foreign Po
rances of their

wers the strongest Assu-


cultivate the most friendly;
this Country.
VOL. XXII. (s{ }

to maintain and

Relations with

His Majesty has seen with Satisfaction
that the War between Russia and the Ot-
toman Porte has been brought to a Con-


The Efforts of His Majesty to




Treaty of the 6th July 1827

have been

His Majesty, having recently concerted
with His Allies. Measures for the Pacifica-
tion and final Settlement of Greece, trusts

that He shall be enabled,

at an early Pe-

riod, to communicate to you the Particu-

lars of this

Arrangement, with such Inform-

action as may explain the Course which
His Majesty has pursued throughout the
Progress of these important Transactions.
His Majesty laments that He is unable
to announce to you the Prospect of a Re-



the Princes of the

House of Braganza.
His Majesty has not yet deemed it ex-
pedient to re-establish, upon their ancient
Footing, His Majesty's Diplomatic Rela-
tions with the Kingdom of Portugal; but


from the continued



Interruption of these

Relations increase His Majesty's Desire to
effect the Termination of so serious an Evil.

[ LORDS, ] Commissioners Speech.

Gentlemen of the House of Commons,
His Majesty has directed the Estimates
for the current Year to be laid before you.
They have been framed with every Atten-
tion to Economy, and it will be satisfac-
tory to you to learn that His Majesty will
be enabled to propose a considerable Re-
duction in the Amount of the Public Ex-
penditure, without impairing the Effi-
ciency of our Naval or Military Establish-
We are commanded by His Majesty to
inform you, that although the National
Income during the last Year has not at-
tained the full Amount at which it had
been estimated, the Diminution is not
such as to cause any Doubt as to the
future Prosperity of the Revenue.
My Lords, and Gentlemen,
His Majesty commands us to acquaint
you, that His Attention has been of late
earnestly directed to various important
Considerations connected with Improve-
ments in the general Administration of the
His Majesty has directed that Measures
shall be submitted for your Deliberation,
of which some are calculated, in the Opi-
nion of His Majesty, to facilitate and ex-
pedite the Course of Justice in different
Parts of the United Kingdom, and others
appear to be necessary Preliminaries to a
Revision of the Practice and Proceedings
of the Superior Courts.
We are commanded to assure you, that
His Majesty feels confident that you will
give your best Attention and Assistance
to Subjects of such deep and lasting Con-
cern to the Well-being of His People.
His Majesty commands us to inform
you, that the Export in the last Year of
British Produce and Manufactures has
exceeded that of any former Year.
His Majesty laments that, notwithstand-
ing this Indication of active Commerce,
Distress should prevail among the Agri-
cultural and Manufacturing Classes in
some Parts of the United Kingdom.

It would be most gratifying to the
paternal Feelings of His Majesty to be
enabled to propose for your Consideration
Measures calculated to remove the Diffi-
culties of any Portion of His Subjects,
and at the same Time compatible with the
general and permanent Interests of His
It is from a deep Solicitude for those In-
terests, that His Majesty is impressed with
the Necessity of acting with extreme Cau.
tion in reference to this important Sub-
His Majesty feels assured that you will
concur with him in assigning due Weight
to the Effect of unfavourable Seasons,
and to the Operation of other causes
which are beyond the Reach of Legisla-
tive Control or Remedy.
Above all, His Majesty is convinced
that no Pressure of temporary Difficulty
will induce you to relax the Determina-
tion which you have uniformly manifested
to maintain inviolate the Public Credit,
and thus to uphold the high Character
and the permanent Welfare of the Coun-

MrMUTEs.] The Commons afterwards withdrew. Their
Lordships resumed at five o'Clock.-The Loan BISHOP
OF OXFORD then took the Oaths and his Seat.-Lord
ARUBDELL took the Oath prescribed by the 10th Geo. 4th.
to be taken by Peers professing the Roman Catholic
Religion.-The Certificate of the Return of the Earl of
GLENGALL as a Peer for Ireland, in the room of the Earl
of Blessinton, deceased, was read.-The Select Vestries
Bill was brought in and read the first time profornd:-
the Bill was introduced by the Duke of WELritaTrow.

SIONERS SPEECI.] This Speech having
been again read, first by the Lord Chan-
cellor, and then by the Clerk at the
The Duke of Buccleugh rose :-
My Lords;-In rising to move that a
humble Address be presented to his
Majesty, in answer to the most gracious
Speech, I am not unmindful of the diffi-
culties which I have to encounter in sup-
port of the task I have undertaken, nor of
my inability to do justice to the important
subjects contained in that Speech. It
would be presumptuous in one so young
and inexperienced as I am, and who have

3 Address on the Lords

6 Address on the Lords

had the honour of a seat in your House
for so short a period, to venture to give
opinions at length, or to enter into a dis-
cussion on the various topics contained in
his Majesty's Speech. I shall, therefore,
confine myself to such few observations
and reasons as may occur to me, claiming,
at the same time, the indulgence of your
lordships, feeling that it was never more
necessary, nor more unfeignedly requested
than on the present occasion. [hear]
My lords, the strong assurances which his
Majesty has been pleased to inform us he
still continues to receive from the different
states of Europe, of their anxiety to
maintain and cultivate the relations of
peace with this country, must be a subject
of congratulation, as it holds out to us the
prospect that peace will be lasting. This
nation is too much involved in the general
interests of Europe not to view with satis-
faction the intelligence that peace has
been established between Russia and the
Ottoman Porte ; therefore, it is most sa-
tisfactory to learn that the warfare between
these two neighboring states which had
so long existed, is happily terminated, for
who could contemplate the conflict carried
on without fearing that the ravages of
war might be extended to other states of
Europe ? We cannot but hear, my lords,
with satisfaction, of his Majesty's unre-
mitting offices with his allies to carry
into effect the Treaty of July 6th, 1827.
I trust that your lordships will think with
me, that this is not the period to enter
into the details on that topic of the Speech,
but that you will wait until his Majesty
shall make those disclosures respecting
the measures carried on with his allies as
regards the situation of Greece. The
measures are of great importance, as
putting an end to warfare and bloodshed,
and as tending to raise up a people who
have been so long plunged into misery
and ruin, and to give to them a station
which they have not enjoyed among the
nations of Europe.-With regard to Por-
tugal, my lords, it is impossible that we
can view with indifference the proceedings
there going forward, considering how long
have been our peculiarly friendly relations
with that country. Those friendly rela-
tions must continue to be interesting to a
country which for so long a period of time
has been our ally. I trust that his Ma-
jesty's exertions will effect a reconciliation
between the two branches of the House of
Braganza, and that the diplomatic rela-

tions which have been so long interrupted
between the two countries may be again
established. One of the most important
questions which will come before your
lordships is the revision of the Courts of
Law-with a view of expediting and
facilitating the course of justice in differ-
ent parts of the United Kingdom. Every
one of your lordships, I am sure, will
agree in the proposition, that it is ex-
pedient that some alteration should be
made in the administration of justice. I
feel convinced of the necessity of such a
proceeding, more particularly as respects
the country with which I am more imme-
diately connected. [hear, hear] I am sure
a vast advantage will arise from expediting
the course of justice, which while it allows
the law to be faithfully executed, shall
shorten the tedious process of a lawsuit.
Revision will be advantageous by which
obsolete laws shall be abolished, and those
which are unsuitable to the present con-
dition of society shall be better adapted
to its wants. [hear, hear] No one, my
lords, can be ignorant of, nor view with
indifference, the unparalleled distress
under which the agricultural and manu-
facturing classes are at present labouring
in many parts of the country. I am not
disposed to consider that the distresses
now felt are so desperate, or so universal,
as some have represented, or as other per-
sons would wish to have it believed; nor
do I think they will continue, or that there
is reason to despond. Despondency ought
not to be encouraged or excited. But
this is a subject of vast importance for
your lordships to consider, and one which
requires great judgment and caution in
your deliberations, but upon which I will
not now enter. I would fain hope, my
lords, that it is only a temporary distress
which is felt, and that it will be alleviated
and removed. In the consideration of
this subject, we must give due weight to
the two late unfavourable seasons which
the agriculturists have experienced. To
the many difficulties with which they have
had to contend, must be added the ex-
pending of their capital in getting in the
harvest, which, when secured, proved so
indifferent. I will not, however, enter
into any detail; it is a subject of too vast
importance to be discussed now, and one
upon which I do not feel capable of enter-
ing. But, my lords, although there is
distress among the agriculturists and the
manufacturers in parts of the country, have

commissidoners Speech.

[ FB 4. ]

we not a subject of congratulation in the He said, in doing so, I must state that I
fact mentioned in his Majesty's most unfeignedly agree in all the arguments ad-
gracious Speech, that the export of British duced by the noble duke to induce your
produce and manufactures during the last lordships to go along with him. It must
year has exceeded that of any former year ? be particularly gratifying to your lordships
This, is surely a subject of congratulation, to find that the state of peace continues,
and I think warrants me in the conclusion which has now lasted for a longer period
to which I have come, that the evils cori- than this country has formerly enjoyed,
plained of are not deep rooted. Your and which promises, from the confidence
lordships are not ignorant that we have reposed in our government by other go-
now the manufacturers of other countries vernments, to be lasting. With respect to
to contend against. Formerly this was the termination of the war in the East,
the only nation where manufactures were though it did not directly interfere with
extensively carried on; now every nation the interest of England, it was thought
is turning its attention to manufactures. advantageous for the future peace of Eu-
We have, therefore, to compete with rope that Turkey should be maintained.
foreign markets in our manufactured What arguments may have been used to
articles, and this has lowered the profits prevent us from entering into war, I am
of our manufacturers. My lords, I trust not aware; but it must be evident to every
that whenever any measure shall be man acquainted with the power of the two
brought forward in this House connected parties, that no other result, except one
with this subject, yourlordships will avoid more disastrous, could have been antici-
any thing that may tend to show the pated. Turkey, however, has now been
people that we entertain apprehensions on spared, and that power may have time to
the subject. My lords, the population of revive and improve its advantages. As to
this country will naturally look to your the Treaty of July 6th, I shall take no
lordships for example-and, therefore, notice of that, as the measures relating to
when the discussion is brought forward, it will be submitted to your lordships here-
it should be our endeavour to encourage after. It must be a matter of regret to
the people rather than dishearten them- your lordships that our diplomatic rela-
to persuade them to cherish the expec- tions with Portugal should have been so
station of their distresses being removed, long suspended. Our commerce is hence
rather than induce them to suppose that cramped and fettered by the want of those
they are-which they assuredly are not- forms which give facility to communication
permanent. But whenever the expected between governments. It has not been
measure, whatever it may be, shall be in our power, however, to avoid this inter-
brought forward, I trust that we shall see ruption. With respect to the right of the
nothing advanced which may cause to the two parties, I have no doubt that, in law,
public creditor any hazard of his property, the eldest branch has the right to the
The country has maintained its high cha- throne; but the Portuguese nation have
racter in times of greater difficulty than thought proper to adopt the younger
the present. We are now at peace. I branch, and it is consistent neither with
am persuaded that the distress felt is of a the policy nor the interest of this country
temporary description. I have, my lords, to interfere with any nation, and make it
particularly avoided entering into the choose what ruler we please. I trust,
details connected with this important however that the interruption will not be
subject; but before I conclude, I trust I of much longer duration, and that before
may be permitted to express a hope that long the diplomatic relations will be re-
when it is brought before your lordships in stored to the same state as formerly ex-
a regular way, you will pay it your undi- isted between the two countries. The next
vided attention, and not make it the subject mentioned in his Majesty's Speech
subject of daily conversation which can is addressed to the House of Commons,
produce no beneficial results, and may and it must be satisfactory to the country
contribute to alarm the people and increase to hear that, at the same time that the ex-
and exaggerate the real evils. The noble penditure of the country is to be diminish-
duke concluded with moving the Address, ed, the efficiency of the naval and military
whichwill be found at p. 121, togetherwith forces is not to be impaired. His Majesty's
his Majesty's most gracious Answer. Speech informs us, too, my lords, that the
Lord Saltoun seconded the Address. state of the administration of justice is to

SAddress on, the L~ords

r LORDS, I Commlissioners Speech.

[ FEB. 4. ] Commissioners Speech.

be revised. I, for one, am too little ac-
quainted with the subject to enter into de-
tails; but I must say, that if the measures
for altering the law, particularly as far as
the country I represent is concerned,
shall make its operation more expeditious,
and not prevent substantial justice being
done, and shall also assist in fixing the
law, they will be a great advantage to the
country. The distresses of parts of the
country I deeply regret, although I look
on them as but of a temporary nature.
No doubt, very great distress exists now,
and has existed for some time past, among
the manufacturers and agriculturists in
many parts of the country. Whatever
may be the causes of that distress, it has
been of too long duration to be wholly
attributable to the currency; several other
causes have contributed to promote that
distress. Some persons have said that it
was over-production; others that it was
the change of the currency; and others
have stated different causes, and proposed
different remedies. Looking at the whole
question, I cannot say that any one cause
in particular has brought it about, or that
any remedy yet proposed will remove it.
In the first place, it arises from the change
which has taken place from obtaining large
profit on small ventures, to getting only
small profits on large transactions. In
other words, my lords, during the war the
whole trade and manufactures of the world
were thrown into our hands, and we sup-
plied the whole continentwith all the colo-
nial product it received; we not only car-
ried goods and manufactures then for all
the world, but were also able to sell our
manufactures at our own price, for there
was no opposition. When the peace came,
our machinery was adopted in other coun-
tries. Other manufacturers came into the
market, prices were lowered, and our
people could not make the same profit on
the same outlay. If a manufacturer were
now obliged to make one hundred bales of
goods to realize the same profit as he for-
merly obtained on sixty bales, he must be so
much worse off, and could not afford to
pay his workmen the same rate of wages;
that brought on the manufacturers' dis-
tress. The manufacturers not being so
well paid as they were formerly, could not
give the same prices for agricultural pro-
duce, and could not consume so much of
it, and this is the source of the distress of
the agriculturists. That distress was felt
formerly as well as now-it was felt in

1819 and 1820, and before any change
had taken place in the currency. Re-
specting the currency, however, I must
say that the change has so long existed,
that all the mischief that it can do it has
done; but no change in the situation of
the country which has taken place can be
wholly attributed to the existing law. In
Scotland, where no change had taken
place, and where the banks were not fet-
tered, there was some distress. There was
a time, I know, when some alarm was felt
that the alteration in the banking system
would be extended to Scotland, and then.
the banks limited their issues. Now,
however, that alarm has passed away, and.
the banks issue their notes to the same
extent as before; and accommodation can
be obtained in that country to as great an
extent as ever. I regret very much the
distress of the agriculturists; for I have
no other property than land. I shall cer-
tainly be ready to give my best attentions
to any measures which may come before
your lordships relating to this subject. I
will not detain your loFdships-I do not
intend, I never did intend to trespass at
length on your lordships, and I shall now
conclude by seconding the Address,
Earl Stanhope said:-My Lords, I should
consider it a base dereliction of my duty
not to take this, the earliest, opportunity,
of stating my opinion to your lordships,
Under a state of difficulty and distress,
universal in extent, and unequalled in in-
tensity, it behoves your lordships to ad-
dress the Throne, not in the language of
compliment, but of truth; discharging
with decision and firmness our duty to our
country, for the benefit of which we have
received political power. I am never dis-
posed to treat any of the speeches from.
the Throne with disrespect, but I must
speak plainly of this. A speech, I must
say, more inept and more inappropriate
was never delivered from the Throne.
In the country there was unusual distress,
universal in its extent, unprecedented
in its degree, intolerable in its pres-
sure. After congratulating Parliament
upon the close of the war in Turkey,
we are informed that distress prevails
amongst the agricultural and manufac-
turing classes in some" parts of the
United Kingdom. Surely it would have
been much more correct for his Majesty to
have told us that unexampled distress pre-
vails in every class, and every interest!
[hear] WhenI the Speech informs us

9 Address on the Lords

[ LORDS, ] Commissioners Speech.

that distress prevails in some parts of the
country, and among some classes of the
community-the people at large would be
most grateful to the noble duke, or to
any other noble lord who will point out
that terra incognita in which distress does
not prevail. [hear, hear] Then we are
warned that we should proceed with ex-
treme caution; and what, let me ask, is the
plain English of this warning ? It means
nothing more nor less than this-" You,
the people of England, manufacturers as
well as agriculturists, are in a state of
great suffering, but use extreme caution,
and take great care that you do not get
out of it." [cheers] This is as much as
to tell a man who has fallen into a deep
river, and is likely to be drowned, take
great care you do not, in attempting to get
out, make your situation worse." To me
the danger seems most imminent; and we
are so far removed from a situation to
which such language can be applicable,
that it is our bounden duty, as we are now
nearly destroyed, to take care that our in-
terests are not quite annihilated. Neither
can I derive any consolation from the
opinion, or hope, expressed by the noble
duke who moved the Address, that the
distress is only temporary. That source
of consolation has been often open to us,
and has as repeatedly been disappointed by
the event. We were heretofore told in me-
taphorical language that the light clouds
that cast a temporary shade will soon
pass away; and that the sun will again
break forth in all his wonted splendour!
Instead of passing away, we have seen the
sky thicken and blacken, and we have
waited in vain for the return of promised
sunshine. No man who really knows the
situation of the country can contemplate
it without dismay. The noble duke says
Do not excite feelings of despondency."
I am not apt to despond-it is not the
character or temper of my mind-but I
do say that my feelings will and must be
those of utter despondency if a remedy
be not speedily discovered and adminis-
tered. The language of the Speech ap-
pears to be the more extraordinary and the
less excusable, because the noble duke at
the head of his Majesty's Treasury must be
well acquainted with the true condition
of the country. He must be acquainted,
not only with the particular pressure, but
with the general existence of that distress
which is described in such feeble terms in
the Speech from the Throne, The noble

duke has travelled much in the course of
the last summer, and though he has visited
various parts of the country for a differ-
ent purpose, yet I still may venture to
hope that he was not without a disposition
to gain information on the state and condi-
tion of the people. He must, therefore,
know from his own experience, the univer-
sality as well as the severity of the distress.
He must know it, too, from the county
meetings lately held in different parts of
the kingdom ; although, on a former occa-
sion, the noble duke was pleased to call
the proceedings of county meetings a
farce." [hear, hear] I will not stay to
inquire whether the proceedings of any
other assembly, at no great distance from
this place, are much more enlightened or
may not better merit the application of
that term. [cheers, and a laugh] The
noble duke must also know the extent and
weight of the distress from the remon-
strances presented from grand juries in
different quarters of the country. He must
know it from the representations of other
kinds, poured in upon government; and
yet in the Speech I see no hope of relief-
no promise even that the sufferings of the
people shall receive the consolation of in-
quiry. I regret this circumstance most
deeply, for the sake of the inhabitants of
this unhappy and ill-governed country. I
regret it also for the sake of the noble
duke himself, for whom, as far as regards
his former career, I can, in common with
the rest of my countrymen, entertain no
other sentiments than those of admiration
and gratitude, But that noble duke, who
was then placed on a pinnacle of glory
which no man before had attained, and
who had acquired a reputation never
equalled by any man in the annals of our
history, save the great Marlborough, had
every thing to lose and nothing to gain by
becoming prime minister. And what new
laurels has he gained? He found the
vessel of the state surrounded by rocks and
quicksands, and yet he consented to steer
the very same course which had been so
ruinously pursued by his predecessors at
the helm. He persevered in the same
system, and adopted the same errors which
had occasioned all our difficulties and
dangers, which were now universally felt,
and were the subject of such general com-
plaint. He has adopted all the errors and
followed all the mistakes of his predeces-
sors. What new laurels, I repeat then,
has he gained ? Where, let me ask, is thq

11 Address on tIhe Lords

[ FEB. 4. ] Commissioners Speech.

glory of acting, not as the head and chief
of an independent administration, but as
the mere deputy of the administration he
succeeded ? He may reply, I am the
minister who granted Catholic emancipa-
tion :" it is not my intention now to enter
into this topic-I have no wish to resusci-
tate the animosities of the debates which
took place upon it; let them be considered
dead and buried, but still I must remind
your lordships that that measure was un-
willingly extorted from the noble duke by
the menaces, denunciations, and intimida-
tions of the Roman Catholic board. [hear,
hear] If we contemplate the distresses
of the country, we shall find them not
limited to agriculture alone, which the
noble duke justly considers the most secure
basis of national prosperity and power: we
shall find that it extends itself also to the
manufacturing interests, and that the trade
and commerce of the kingdom are propor-
tionably suffering. Does not this state of
things then imperiously demand immedi-
ate investigation? If I do not on this
occasion minutely enter into the details I
should otherwise be desirous of furnishing,
it is solely because it will be my duty, in
the course of a few days, as soon as noble
lords shall have arrived in town to take
part in the debate, to move for a commit-
tee of the whole House to inquire into the
state of the nation, as far as regards its
internal condition. I shall, therefore, limit
the investigation merely to our domestic
situation; and I cannot suppose that the
noble duke is the only man in the empire
who is ignorant of the real state of the
nation. And will any one deny that an
inquiry is not imperiously demanded ? The
people have a right to know, through the
medium of parliamentary investigation,
whether their distresses are as partial and
temporary as they are represented, or
whether, as I contend, and as I shall be
able on the proper occasion to prove, they
are not permanent, and do not arise from
mistaken legislative measures which it is
necessary to repeal? We are told, in the
Speech from the Throne, to assign due
weight to the effect of unfavourable sea-
sons and other causes; but what those
other causes are we are only left to con-
jecture. As to unfavourable seasons, we
know that the invariable effect of them has
hitherto been to injure the producers of
grain; but has it been a usual effect of
unfavourable seasons to lower the price of
grain [hear]. It was an absurdity without

a parallel. Really the person who forced
this notion into the royal Speech must have
formed a very mean opinion of the capaci-
ties of those to whom it was tobe address-
ed. Who, from the beginning of the world
to the present day, ever heard of such a
monstrous absurdity as is now attempted
to be palmed upon us, for the sake of pre-
venting inquiry, and for the sake of shut-
ting out light as clear as that of the sun at
noon-day, that bad seasons have the effect
of lowering the price of corn ? Why has
the price of corn been lowered ? It is the
consequence of pernicious measures found-
ed upon no just principle, or rather upon
no principle at all. I had the honour to
propose an amendment to the proposition
of the noble duke on this subject, which
amendment had for its object the fixing of
the scale so as to afford a remunerating
price to the grower. The price of grain
has not fallen in consequence of unfavour-
able seasons, but in consequence of that
cause which was so truly and forcibly
stated by my noble friend, whose loss I
cannot sufficiently deplore. He was one
of the brightest ornaments of this House,
and his virtues and talents were as a tower
of strength to the country. [hear] I need
not add that I allude to the late lord
Redesdale,who truly described the measure
of Mr. Peel as an act of wrong and robbery.
[hear] But if such be the effect upon
corn, is that a reason why other agricul-
tural produce is to fall also? The absurdi-
ties upon this subject, andpointsconnected
with it, are so great, that a person gravely
told me that the depression in the price of
butter and cheese arose from the super-
abundance of grass, in consequence of the
extreme wetnessof the late season. [laugh]
He however mentioned these facts to show
how little is known of the real grievances
of the country; and to illustrate to what
absurd shifts they resorted who were
determined to shut their eyes to the state
of the country. But passing the question
as to corn, did anybody ever hear of an
unfavourable season lowering the price of
wool? That is a part of the system I
cannot too strongly reprobate, for upon
that principle one portion of the commu-
nity is plundered for the supposed profit
of another portion. In the outset of that
system the wool-grower was plundered,
that some benefit might accrue to the
manufacturer; and the result of the expe-
riment has been what I always contended
it would be, that while the wool-grower has

18 Address on the Lards

[ LORDS, ] Commissioners Speech.

been reduced to a state of pauperism, the
manufacturer has not been benefited-by
the decay of the home-market he has lost
his best, surest, and most extensive cus-
tomer. I also wish to know whether
unfavorable seasons have, or are supposed
to have, an unfavourable effect on the
trade and manufactures of the country ?
It would be quite as rational to say that
their condition is to be attributed to the
present severity of the weather. The ex-
pression of unavailing regret is, however,
to be checked, and the country is merely
to be told that its sufferings are beyond the
reach of parliamentary interference and
remedy. If I thought that such was really
the case, I should indeed entertain a
gloomy and desponding view of the state
of the country. But nevertheless the coun-
try is now rapidly approaching that condi-
tion which threatens to tear asunder all
the bonds that unite human society. It is
impossible to state this evil in language
too strong; the result will be not only
danger, but destruction, if remedy for our
difficulties be not afforded. Then, I con-
jure your lordships, for your own honour
-for the sake of the discharge of the duty
the people have a right to expect from you,
to.examine the case with a view to the
discovery of some method of relief. You
were truly and eloquently told by a learned
and eminent counselat your baron amemor-
able occasion, that you cannot flourish, nay,
that you cannot long continue to exist, if
once you lose the affection and confidence
of the people, that you mustfade and wither
like the blossoms struck from the tree. Is
this the way to secure the affection and con-
fidence of the people, or is this the way for
your lordships to discharge your high and
important duties ? Are you to obtain the
affection and confidence of the people by
agreeing to an Address which, from one
end of the kingdom to the other, must be
received with contempt and derision. [hear]
There is no part of the country which does
not begin to think for itself, and to exa-
mine for itself the nature, extent, causes,
and remedies for the existing evils; and
to have adverted to them in the royal
Speech would have been far more proper
than to talk of legal inquiries. This I can
call only a wilful attempt to divert the
attention of parliament from the real, true,
and what will soon become the intolerable,
grievance of the nation. Why, otherwise,
does what is said about the consideration
of measures for thq better administration

of justice occupy so prominent a place in
the Speech ? No doubt, at the proper time,
those would be important subjects of inves-
tigation; but what should we sayof thewis-
dom of any individual, who, when his house
was on fire, set to work busily to examine
his banker's book ? [hearJ Whether the
opinions of the people will be expressed
in petitions to this House, or whether they
will be addressed to another quarter, I
know not; but if, in the course of the
present session, no petitions are presented,
I must thus early protest against the infer-
ence that this silence is to be considered
the test of the indifference of public opi-
nion, or the absence of all cause of com-
plaint. Let it be recollected that the pe-
titions of the people to this House have
been treated with neglect-that it was said
that they had been got up." I wish
those who dared to make this assertion
would endeavour to get up some peti-
tions for the continuance of the present
system. Let any man in any part of the
kingdom, and with reference to any
interest, try to get up a petition praying
that the present distresses may be con-
tinued; and let us see what will be the
result ? If petitions are not presented, it
may arise from another cause, to which,
as a member of this House, it is painful
for me to advert. It will show general
distrust of parliament, from the base ser.
vility it has, on different occasions, exhi-
bited. I speak not now of one set of
principles, or of another. I recollect that
the late lord Liverpool, who presided over
his Majesty's councils from the end of the
war till 1819, pursued a system which
was then considered, as I now consider it,
sound in principle; and he was supported
by a large majority of this House. When
the same lord Liverpool subsequently de-
parted from that sound principle as re-
garded currency, free trade, the navigation
laws, and many other vital questions, the
complaisancy of this House still gave him
its support. To regain the confidence of
the country you must adopt some course
of inquiry which may ultimately extricate
us from our present difficulties. It is
mainly to save this House from the disgrace,
ridicule, and scorn (for I cannot use milder
terms), to which it will be exposed if it
adopt the Address of the noble mover, that
I shall propose an amendment, which has
this recommendation-that it will neither
prejudge the causes of the present dis-
tresses, nor the remedies that ought to be

15 Address on2 the Lo~rds

[ FEB. 4. ] Commissioners Speech.

applied to them : it merely pledges parlia-
ment to institute a minute inquiry into the
distresses, with a view to the amelioration
of the condition of the suffering classes in
all parts of the country. The terms of it
will be these :-" That this House views
with the deepest sorrow and anxiety the
severe distress which now afflicts the
country, and will immediately proceed to
examine its causes, and the means of ad-
ministering speedy and effectual relief."
Should I be unsuccessful-as I probably
may be-I shall then enter my protest
against any further proceeding ; and in a
very short time, as soon as a sufficiently
numerous attendance can be obtained, I
shall submit a motion for inquiry, not by
any select" committee of members to be
named by the noble duke, but an inquiry
by the whole House, into the state of the
nation as regards its internal condition.
That course will not preclude any noble
lord, who may think proper, to bring for-
ward any inquiry into our foreign relations.
That is not my intention to do; first, be-
cause I cannot pretend to be sufficiently
informed on the subject; secondly, because,
though I may see much to deplore in our
foreign policy, I also see much to admire
in the pacific course adopted by the noble
duke ; thirdly, because I wish to secure
the votes of those who may agree with me
on the question of domestic policy, though
they may be of a very different sentiment
with respect to our conduct to foreign
Upon the question of our internal situa-
tion I shall certainly take the sense of the
House. I know not how many may vote
with me; but, feeling as I do, I should
think it an act of baseness not to introduce
the subject, and I know that I shall be
supported by some whose opinions I most
reverence. It was my intention to have
entered at some length into the state of
the various interests of the country, and
especially into the pressure produced by
the alteration of the currency; a measure
that has actually raised the present amount
of taxes above the sum paid by the country
in the last and most expensive year of the
war. The noble duke seems to indicate
his concurrence in this position ; and if he
agrees with me, let me ask how is it pos-
sible for the nation to bear that enormous
and intolerable burthen of taxation, with
a diminished consumption in every branch
of produce, trade, and manufactures? The
most convenient mode of inquiry would be

by a committee of the whole House; and,
if your lordships shall refuse it, all I can
say is, that in my view you will bring upon
yourselves indelible disgrace, and desert
your duty in a manner which will not be
forgotten, and ought not to be forgiven.
You will then be justly considered unwor-
thy to hold the station you occupy, since
you neglect its most imperative duties.
If you wish to turn distress into despair
and disaffection-if vou wish to extend
through the country, not a spirit of tem-
perate and salutary change, but the wildest
and most sweeping doctrines of parlia-
mentary reform, you cannot adopt a course
more efficacious than refusing to hear the
grievances of the nation, and, if possible,
to apply a remedy. All the arguments in
favour of parliamentary reform will thus
acquire double strength, and there will be
nothing to oppose them but weakness and
distrust. On a future occasion I shall
endeavour, in more detail, to show the
manner in which the best interests of the
country have been wilfully attacked and
injured, by obstinate adherence to misgo.
vernment and false principles; I therefore
shall not, on the present occasion, trouble
the House further than by reading the
Amendment I propose. [His lordship
concluded by again reading the terms of
his Amendment: it was agreed, after some
conversation with the LordChancellor, that
it should commence from United King-
dom at the end of the tenth paragraph
to the end of the Address.]
Viscount Goderich said:-My lords,
although it is my intention to support the
Address proposed by the noble duke, and
to oppose the Amendment, I beg to assure
the noble earl, that among the many con-
siderations which have induced me to take
that course, cannot be reckoned any in-
sensibility to the distresses I know and
feel to prevail to so great an extent, and
which, were it within our power, it is clearly
within our duty to redress. I feel, if I
were to acquiesce in the Amendment, I
should only be lending myself to a delusion.
[hear] Before, however, I proceed to
make any remarks upon that part of the
subject to which the noble earl has so em-
phatically called your lordships' attention,
I shall beg leave to advert to some other
matters noticed in his Majesty's Speech.
Although I feel, and deeply feel, that there
is nothing so strongly interesting to our
hearts and consciences as the condition of
the country, when in a state of such un-

17 Address on the Lords

[ LORDS, ] Commissioners Speech.

example distress, I cannot think that we
are therefore called upon to neglect the
consideration of other great questions in
which the welfare of the nation is essen-
tially involved. It would, indeed, be a
great misfortune to befal the country, if,
because we were suffering distresses of a
very severe kind, we should shut our eyes
to those great questions in which, not on
account of the mere interest they excite at
the present moment, but of the effect they
must produce on the latest posterity, a
paramount degree of importance is involv-
ed. I particularly allude to the contem-
plated improvement and melioration of
the mode of administering justice. It
would indeed be a great misfortune if we
were to shut our eyes upon all the great
questions which the present state of cir-
cumstances has created, merely because
some of them are not connected with the
internal condition of the country. These
are questions which I hope your lordships
will not consider of so little importance as
to think that our internal distresses will
justify you in passing them by in silence
-I mean those which have a relation to
theforeign connections ofthiscountry. With
regard to that subject, the Speech expresses
the satisfaction with which his Majesty
views the termination of the war between
Russia and the Ottoman Porte. If the
words view with satisfaction," relate
solely to the pleasure his Majesty has de-
rived from seeing the termination of a
war, which was not only attended, as all
wars are, with many calamities in itself,
but which was likely, from the interests
involved, and the parties engaged in it,
sooner or later to have dragged every
great power in Europe into the contest, I
most heartily concur with them ; but if
they are intended to express a satisfactory
feeling created by the mode in which the
war has terminated, and the conditions
that have been imposed, then I cannot
concur with that portion of the Speech.
[hear] I am willing to believe, that the
first sense is that in which the words have
been used. With respect to the mode in
which that war has been terminated, I
never entertained an opinion that it could
come to any other end. I never conceived
how any man who looked at all to the
course of events in that country, in con-
nection with those in other European
States, could fail to see, that for the last
hundred and thirty years the power of the
Turk has dwindled every day, whilst the

power of those states, which would be the
most likely to contend in warfare against
him, have been progressively and naturally
increasing. The principles of his govern-
ment and of his faith make it impossible
for him to advance with the advance of
others ; they were those of a blind, preju-
diced, stupid, fanatic; while those powers,
whose fear before restrained them, but
whose cupidity is now awakened by the
hope of deriving benefit from his weakness,
have been making a daily progress in
those arts which at first render a country
independent of, and afterwards superior
to, her less civilized neighbours. This has
been strongly exemplified with respect to
Turkey. There has not been a single war
in which the Turk has engaged within the
last hundred and thirty years without
coming out of it somewhat shorn of his
previous strength. I was, from the first,
perfectly convinced that nothing could
save him from the consequences of his
conduct in the approaching war but a
combination of the other powers-a coali-
tion that he should never have counselled.
I know that my opinion was one which was
by no means general. Great pains were
taken to propagate others; a directly con-
trary opinion was indeed ardently diffused
by some persons-we were told that orders
had been given to the Pacha to collect
troops. God knows how many troops
were to be brought together from one
quarter or another; and it was said that
the defeat of the invader was certain. I
believe that that opinion was generally
entertained in this country. The Pacha
received orders to collect troops no doubt,
but there were no troops to collect, and he
was engaged in an unsuccessful attempt
to obtain the means of resisting a most
formidable aggression-a fact which was
not noticed in this country, but which was
one of a most important nature. And
then, as to the Sultan, we were told indeed
a great deal as to his energy and vigour,
but I confess I never could discover any
signs of energy or vigour, even in that act
of his life which has been the subject of
so much admiration. I saw nothing in it,
on the one hand, but a cold and reckless
indifference to human life when a favourite
object was in view-the destruction of
eight or ten or twelve thousand men being
considered as nothing; and on the other,
a hasty determination to do a certain act
without at all providing for its conse-
queuces, For when he had succeeded in

19 Address on the Lords

[ FEB. 4. ] Commissioners Speech.

destroying the praetorian bands which me-
naced his security, and held the despot in
their hands, he took no measures to secure
another military body for the guard of his
empire in their place. I therefore say,
that I considered that act as anything but
one of vigour, courage, or wisdom; and I
felt sure, that in consequence of it, he
must, when he was attacked, consent to
an unconditional submission. I believe
the Sultan was misled-I believe that
great pains were taken by a certain indi-
vidual to induce him to act as he did both
towards Russia and Greece. Such indi-
vidual, it is true, has been since disowned
by his government, but I believe that his
representations were to this effect: Don't
listen to France, to Russia, or to England ;
do what you please, they will quarrel
among themselves; stand firm, and you
will be sure of a successful issue of the
struggle." But quarrel amongst them-
selves they did not; and the Sultan, de-
ceived by false hopes, was unfortunately
urged on to his own destruction. I say
unfortunately, because, though I am not a
lover of the Turk, and do not hold in re-
spect the principles of his government,
and set no great value on his political at-
tachment to this country-I yet do not
wish to see him crushed; and by no
means do I wish to see him, by this,
or any other country, driven from the
position he occupies, and left to his fate.
I do not wish to see him driven precipi-
tately to his fate, and thereby leave open
territories so valuable, and that would ex-
cite the cupidity of any power who might
wish to possess them : that is a result
which no one can contemplate with un-
mixed satisfaction. That part of the
Speech on this subject, which gave me the
most satisfaction, was the announcement
that the terms of the pacification and settle-
ment of Greece were likely soon to be ad-
justed ; and adjusted, I should hope, on the
basis of the Treaty of the 6th of July. I am
not prepared to say that such treaty has not
been honourably executed, and I will not
say what might be thought of the first
steps of the French government; but I
do think, that the body of French troops
sent into that country were not sent with-
out the bonafide intention of carrying the
stipulations of that treaty for the libera-
tion of Greece into effect. If I am asked
whether I anticipate anything unsatisfac-
tory in the details of the pacification, I
can only answer, that so far as we are yet

informed, there has been a reasonable ex-
tension of territory conceded to the Greeks,
and that I am not disposed to quarrel with
the doctrines of a monarchy as the first
principle of their future government. I
will not enter into the question how far
that principle may be consistent with the
future form of that government, or how
far the interference of others should ex-
tend in its first settlement ; but I will say,
that a government of that kind appears to
me to be more likely to lead to something
stable, definite, and intelligible for Greece,
than if it were left to chance or to a di-
versity of interests, which, unguided by
any principle, might but excite fears, jea-
lousies, and other unpleasant sensations
among the various governments of Europe,
and render it doubtful how long the pre-
sent peaceful relations of its different coun-
tries might continue. I will now say one
word with respect to Portugal: I felt a
strong degree of interest respecting that
country, and I was not without doubts as
to the course his majesty's government
might pursue. That this matter has not
been conducted to a satisfactory issue (and
to do that the government has no easy
task to perform) we learn from the Speech
itself, which informs us that no specific
settlement can yet be anticipated. If I
were to venture to predict anything, it
would be that Don Miguel will be recog-
nised by this country. I am not prepared
to say that I object to the fact of his
being recognized. Circumstances may ren-
der it impossible for this country not to
take that course; but if so, I hope it will
be the recognition of him by England,
and by England alone, without relation to
any other power on earth. I hope it will
be such a recognition as to call on Portu-
tugal for a return of friendship and good
offices for so disinterested an act; and
lastly, I hope, that if Don Miguel be re-
cognised, we shall not leave unfortunate
men, who had been persecuted on account
of their patriotic attachment, still to suffer
as the victims of tyranny, [hear] but that
their hard fate may be mitigated by the
influence of British councils. From what
I have both heard and seen, I fear it
will not be mitigated without such inter-
ference. I say I do hope that the un-
happy victims of oppression and illegal
outrage will not be left to suffer perpetual
exile, and cruel poverty, not for their
crimes, but for their virtues, [cheers] I
will take the liberty now, if I have not

21 Address on Mte Lords

23 Address on the Lords [ LOF
already intruded a little too far, of turning
from this part of the subject to the topics
more specifically alluded to by the noble
earl. As far as I can judge from the ge-
neral tenor of his observations, the two great
objects hehas in view are to take measures
to get rid of the "pestilent heresy," as it
had been called, of free trade, and to di-
minish the amount of the taxes by pay-
ing them in a different currency, or to re-
trace our steps on the subject of the
currency. As to the first of these
matters I will just observe one thing.
Whenever I have met these violent oppo-
nents of free trade, and have questioned
them on their opinions, I have never
been able to find one who could tell me
what his notion of free trade was, still less
what laws of trade had been altered-in
what degree the alteration had taken
place, and what was the effect of the al-
teration on the object which it affected ;
and I firmly believe that whenever we
shall come to the discussion of this ques-
tion, we shall be left by these persons as
much in the dark as we hitherto have been.
What says the noble earl, and what have
a thousand others said, on the subject of
wool ? There have been violent declama-
tions respecting the introduction of foreign
wool at a low duty; and those who have
thus admitted it have been stigmatized as
heartless theorists, and indeed as little
better than demons.-But those who ad-
vise us, in this respect, to follow what they
call the wisdom of our ancestors" seem
to forget that it was those very ancestors
who let freely, and without restraint,
foreign wool come into this kingdom.
[hear] If the wisdom of our ancestors
is worth a straw, it is good against the
duty, not in favour of it; for it was not
until 1819 that a high duty was levied on
it. They encouraged the importation of
foreign wool. They may have been wrong;
but whether they were or not, do let us
call things by their right names, and not
thus mistake facts, and then raise false
inferences upon them. There is nothing
more important in discussing a question
of this kind, than that we should be quite
certain of the premises on which we start;
and we shall only get into difficulties, if
we ascribe to certain causes things which
do not arise out of them. I shall say
nothing further on this subject now, but
shall reserve myself for any general dis-
cussion on it. I will now say one word
on the question of the currency. There

1DS,] Commissioners Speech. 24
is no idea more prevalent on this subject
than that which was dwelt on by the
noble earl; namely, a notion that the cur-
rency having changed has produced an
increase of taxation. [hear, hear] That
'hear, hear' is just what I wanted ; it
shews the truth of what I have stated.
Now the notion to which I have alluded
would be quite correct if the amount of
money paid in taxes were the same now
as in the time of the depreciated currency.
But what is the fact? In 1815, in the
hey-day of our glory, the amount of taxes
levied was somewhat more than the enor-
mous amount of eighty millions. If the
depreciation had been charged, as it may
fairly be calculated, at 30 per cent, the
amount would have been fifty-six millions.
So that fifty six millions now are equivalent
to eighty millions of that time. The same
taxes, therefore, as were levied (including
the property-tax) in 1815, and which then
produced eighty millions, would, if levied
now, produce fifty-six millions. It is a
curious fact that the amount levied
last year did produce just that sum. But
we know that considerable reductions have
taken place-I do not say that every
thing has been reduced to its full extent;
that the government has done all that
they could, and the noble earl asks how
they can expect to raise the same amount
as in a depreciated currency? But what
followed the bill on the subject of the cur-
rency ? Did it follow that because the
currency had been rectified there was
a diminished production of manufactures
and other produce, or of consumption ?
The truth was, a reduction of taxation had
taken place to a very great extent antece-
dently to 1823. From that period, and
previously to 1826, a reduction to the ex-
tent of nine millions had taken place ; so
that if the consumption were the same in
1827 as in 1823, there would be a dimi-
nished receipt of nine millions. But
what was the fact? The diminution in
the revenue did not exceed three millions ;
and if it were calculated in 1828, it would
be found not to have gone beyond one
million. This is only to be accounted for
by an increased consumption of the neces-
sary articles of life. The cause of this
must have been, either that the population
has increased, or that the people are able
to consume more than they did. I care
not one straw, so far as the argument
goes, which of the two is taken to be
the fact; for the result of either must

[ FEB. 4. ] Commissioners Speech.

show that the pressure has been light-
ened, or that the people have increased
means of consumption. I will go into
these matters more in detail at a future
time, but I felt so strongly on the sub-
ject, that I was obliged to say thus much
now in answer to the objections urged
against the pestilent heresy" of free
trade, and the pernicious tendency of the
currency-bill. I know that all feel the
pressure of the times. I feel them deeply
myself, but still more do I feel for those
who are less able to bear them; but I do
not think the things I have referred to
are the causes of that pressure. I am not
prepared to give my unqualified confidence
to his majesty's government; but I do not
come here to embarrass them. I hope
others do not; and I will do my best to
support them in the course they have
adopted on these subjects, for I conceive
it to be of infinitely more importance to
continue in this course than to suffer one-
self to be led away by errors on these
great subjects, in order to make them
the means of attacking, I had almost said
assaulting, an administration, in order to
triumph in their discomfiture; a measure,
the consequences of which, if thus occa-
sioned, few can truly foresee. If ever
I had any political hostility to the present
administration, I have buried it in the
grave of the Catholic question. My sole
object is to do the best I can to aid
them or others in that course of govern-
ment which I conceive to be beneficial;
and if the ministry, instead of turning
round are prepared to maintain the con-
duct they have hitherto adopted, I for
one, shall not grudge them the possession
of their office.
The Duke of Richmond said: but for
the line of argument pursued by the noble
viscount, especially on the subject of the
wool-trade and duty, he should not on the
present occasion have trespassed on their
lordships' attention. The noble duke de-
clared that he had only named the wool
question because he thought that the wool-
trade had been unfairly excepted from the
general rule, and was not protected in the
same ratio as others. He could refer to
papers to show that it was not equally
protected with others, he guarded against
going into the subject of free trade, and
had expressed no opinion on it, and there-
fore he ought not to have been charged
with improperly referring to our ancestors'
conduct on that subject. There was now

three years' growth of wool on hand; the
farmer could not get rid of his produce,
and the manufacturer felt at second hand
the distress inflicted on the farmer. The
land-owners and occupiers were on the
verge of ruin; and the labourers were ex-
isting, if existence it could be called, on
the miserable pittance which the parish
officers with difficulty collected for their
support. Many of their lordships knew,
if they attended to their magisterial duties,
that many of the labourers were without
the means of existence. He was not san-
guine enough to suppose that "his argu-
ments would have any great weight there,
but out of doors they would have their
effect. The noble viscount said it would
be a delusion to hold out a hope that par-
liament could provide a remedy for this
evil. Were their lordships then to tell
the labourer and manufacturer that they
must starve ? Were they to tell the yeo-
manry that there was no remedy for them
but patience? That was not the lan-
guage to hold to them in their distresses.
He should not however shrink from the
performance of his duty, although he
might be exposed to the serious charge,
by so doing, of assaulting" he believed
was the word-the administration. Not
that he had any wish to assault the go-
vernment, but he hoped that the expres-
sion of opinion in the House would be
strong enough to show the noble duke
that their lordships intended to do their
duty to their country, and to act with jus-
tice to all. There were some points of
the Address which he was happy to hear,
even at this late period; he meant the
allusion to the courts of law. He hoped
that amendments would be adopted with
respect to the court of Chancery and that
the plans of the intended reforms would
not be suffered to lie idly on that table.
The Earl of Caernarvon considered the
language used in the Speech to be quite
unworthy of our most gracious sovereign,
and were only the expressions of those
who now formed his councils. They alone
must be answerable for them. On the
whole, he must say that they were a most
insulting, unfeeling, and cold-blooded al-
lusion to the distresses of the country.
He had felt a painful sensation in reading
them; especially the confusion and inca-
pacity manifested in the words which were
put into the mouth of the sovereign, as to
the impossibility of relieving the distresses.

25 Address on the Lords

e LORDS, I Conmmissioners Speech.

Yet the House were recommended to ad-
here to that course which, year after year,
had been attended with increasing dis-
tress, and when the only cases in the wil-
derness of distress were those exhibited by
the country when that course was departed
from. He admitted that there might be
minor concurrent causes of distress; but
the great and overwhelming cause which
had brought down this country from
the pinnacle of prosperity to its present
depression, was, the line of conduct which
the ministers, within the last few years,
had thought fit to adopt. He could con-
ceive nothing like the scattered allusions
of the most extraordinary Speech. He,
for his part, believed that it would be diffi-
cult to persuade the country that the state
of the seasons, that a wet summer or a
cold winter, had occasioned the general
distress. He would call to the recollec-
tion of the House one circumstance of
recent occurrence, which would at once
put an end to all arguments upon the dis-
tress arising from the present season.
Noble lords must recollect that the years
1816 and 1817 presented the worst sea-
sons almost within memory. Now the
country was placed, at the present mo-
ment, precisely in the situation in which
it stood at the commencement of 1818;
but was the distress to be compared ? So
far from it, 1818 was like an oasis rising
in the desert"; it was an era of bright,
though, as it turned out, of illusory pros-
perity. Had the country,' at the present
moment, any such prospects of prosperity
either in the agricultural, manufacturing,
or commercial interests ? No man would
contend that prosperity was brightening.
But the government had felt the distresses
of 1816 and 1817, and they became
alarmed at their own operations. They
deferred their resumption of cash payments
for two years : the dreary scene never had
brightened, except on the occasion of
temporary relaxation of those ill-fated
measures taking place; and in those in-
tervals a gleam of prosperity had returned
on our affairs. Not only did the minis-
ters do this, but if his recollection did not
fail him, there was then an issue of seven
million of Exchequer-bills, the Bank of
England made an issue of three million
of small notes, and there was a propor-
tionate issue made by the private bankers.
All this countervailed the inclemency of
the season; and was not this plain fact
better than speculative calculations, and

the best of all arguments, in reply to all
that was ever said about the wet summer?
The distresses of the country were treated,
however, as if they were of a trivial nature.
He much lamented that so important a
subject, one on which the happiness, pros-
perity, health, and lives of millions were
dependent, should have been treated so
lightly by those whose duty demanded a
very different course of conduct. The
noble viscount (Goderich) who had just
spoken, expressed his determination to
vote for no inquiry, as it would only prove
illusory; and illusory he admitted it cer-
tainly would be, if the House of Lords
should confess the same incapacity of
which his Majesty's ministers already stood
self-convicted. If the noble lords in
office could propose no measure of assist-
ance at such a juncture, when the cries
of a suffering nation assailed their ears,
they were not the ministers who could
save the country. At the same time he
did not mean to insinuate that this was
to be referred to a want of capacity, what-
ever other deficiencies the present govern-
ment might be charged with. On the
subject of the currency laws, he would
speak his sentiments freely, notwithstand-
ing the reluctance which was so visible
on the part of others, both within doors
and abroad. Many entertained opinions
similar to his own, although deference to
one leader or another prevented them
from speaking out. Some also hoped
that the powerful hand of government
would be extended to relieve the public
from the intolerable evils so improperly
termed'temporary' in the official document
then under their consideration. It would
be easy to prove that every measure in
other times, and other countries, which
had for its object the contraction of the
circulation, produced uniformly public dis-
tress. Formerly, distress which so origi-
nated passed away in a few years; now,
however, the kingdom was placed un-
der different circumstances, as the
production of the precious metals had
diminished while agricultural and com-
mercial resources had multiplied. Many
of the noble lords whom he address-
ed had been already obliged to abate
their incomes by 20 or 30 per cent; but,
according to the system pursued by go-
vernment, they might make a still further
reduction of 20 or 30 per cent more, with-
out producing any permanently beneficial
effect, so long as the principal source of

27 Address on th~e Lords

[ FPs. 4.] Commissioners Speech.

mischief remained untouched. It was a
foolish and a mad project to go on specu-
lating how much contraction the currency
would bear. Wiser and happier states-
men had supported successfully the prin-
ciple that the currency could not be too
extensive, provided it represented some-
thing substantial; or, in other words, that
it represented property, whether agricul-
tural, commercial, or manufacturing.
Another great error had been committed
in the settlement of the currency question
-namely, that the standard should have
been fixed to be a gold one. This was
the only country which had a gold stand-
ard alone. A small expenditure required
one standard; a larger another; but he
considered the metallic currency in no
other light than as the small change of
a great commercial and manufacturing
state. He would ask any one in that
House whether, when rents were sent up
to their bankers here, were they sent up,
forsooth, in rouleaus of gold ?-Never.
They were sent up almost always in a
paper currency, or by the bankers, for
their own convenience-namely, bills of
exchange. In cases of doubt only was
there a demand or run on any one for
gold or precious metals. When a panic
occurred, it was always greater and more
general in a larger country than in a
smaller; the wealth of the former ought
therefore to be represented by that metal,
as a standard which was easier procurable
than gold, and was also to be had in
larger quantities. In no other country
was gold exclusively a standard, nor did
he believe that it could at this mo-
ment be obtained in any quarter of the
world to meet an immediate and general
demand. Besides, gold was more open to
combinations than any other metal, which
would be sufficiently demonstrated in a
sudden exigence by the great dealers in
money on the Stock Exchange. He
would propose a silver standard, and have
gold for circulation with a view only to
convenience. The resources of the coun-
try would then be emancipated from the
artificial fetters in which they were bound,
and it would be shown, to the confusion
of political economists, that they could
be made the means of feeding as well as
starving the population of the country.
What was the condition of the English
people just now? Why, 30,000,0001 of
taxes had been apparently taken off, an
ostensible abatement from 84,000,0001.

to 56,000,0001. had been made, and yet
the pressure was found to be about the
same as before. Were they in the present
times, after fifteen years of peace, to be
told that they must pay a property-tax,
pay all the war taxes-in short, all that
had been levied at the heaviest period of
national expenditure;-now, too, while
economy and retrenchment were adopted
in every department of the public service ?
The noble duke at the head of the govern.
ment had made promises of still greater
reductions. In this respect, he was free
to acknowledge that no minister had
greater power or more honest intentions.
He was quite willing to give that illus-
trious individual abundant credit for his
ability and integrity, but he might re-
trench and economise until he should even
put in peril the existence of our institutions,
and yet the distress of the manufacturing
and agricultural population, he could as-
sure him, would not be the more amelior-
ated by exertions of such a nature. One
of the evils attendant upon the working
of the present system was the course of
conduct which it imposed upon bankers.
They could not, consistently with their
interest, afford the slightest accommodation
to farmers, who might suffer by a wet
and backward season. The crop, although
abundant, would necessarily require a
longer period before it could be brought
to market. The farmer, on presenting
himself to the banker, demands a check
for 1001., and promises to pay the amount
with interest, offering his corn-ricks, hay-
stacks, cattle, &c. for security. This
proposal, however, is invariably refused,
as the nature of the circulation prevents
the banker from profiting by acced-
ing to it. His issues are in five-pound
notes, and, on an average, from seven to
eight days after their issue, those five-pound
notes are returned on him for small
change, which he is obliged to pay in
gold. The only argument advanced in
favour of this circulation appeared to be
their supposed effect in preventing traders
to any great amount on fictitious capital
from going to market, and consequently so
far it protected fair dealing, and encou-
raged the interests of trade. This asser-
tion, nevertheless, was not true, in his opi-
nion, to the extent alleged. He had seen
returns made in the year 1825, which jus-
tified the inference, and led him to believe
that its operation in this respect was very
much over-rated. He recommended a silver

29 Address onr the Lords

[ LORDS, ] Commissioners Speech.

standard, disavowed having attended any
county meeting where the subject had
been discussed, and stated his conviction
that the distresses complained of were not
of a temporary character, nor arising from
accidental causes. There was, however,
another point of the King's Speech which
he could not forbear adverting to in terms
of approbation and satisfaction. Hemeant
the assurance of a reform in the courts of
law. [hear, hear] This was a matter
worthy of being undertaken by his ma-
jesty's government, and he had no doubt
the announcement would be hailed with
one common feeling of gratified expecta-
tion by every member of the community.
With respect to a remedy for the distresses
under which the country was suffering, he
believed the noble duke opposite would be
most glad to apply one, if he knew it; but
though the noble duke might not be able
to devise one, still it was necessary that a
remedy should be applied, and thatspeedily.
It was impossible that the poorer classes
could continue in the state in which they
were now suffering. If that class had no
confidence in the ministry, they had confi-
dence in parliament; but even in that
their confidence would not long continue,
unless they found that serious attempts
were made to relieve the distress under
which they laboured. Another topic to
which he was anxious to call the attention
of their lordships was one in which he
considered that the honour of this country
had been compromised, and its glory tar-
nished. He alluded to the conduct we
had adopted towards those brave and loyal
men who had endeavoured to land at
Terceira., to add their force to that which
was already there, acting in the name of
their lawful sovereign, the young queen
of Portugal. He contended that minis-
ters, while professing a strict neutrality,
as between the party of Don Miguel and
the constitutionalists, or rather that of the
lawful queen of Portugal, had shown a
decided partiality to the usurper, and had
materially assisted him in his outrageous
violation of the rights of the young queen.
If they had acted on the principles of
strict neutrality, it might have been fair ;
but they had departed from it, and in
every way showed a decided partiality for
Don Miguel. They had, in fact, acted as
constables for his protection. The noble
lord observed that he had been prevented
from bringing this subject forward in the
latter part of last session; but he should

at no distant day have the opportunity of
directing special attention to it. In the
meantime, he must maintain that the con-
duct of government, in preventing the
landing of the Portuguese who went out
unarmed to join the force of their lawful
queen at Terceira, was a decided violation
of that neutrality on which ministers pro-
fessed to act, and was an interposition un-
wairanted by the law of nations. We
certainly were not bound to assist in con-
veying them there ; but he defied any man
to prove that we were justified in prevent-
ing an unarmed force from landing on that
island. Even if government knew that these
men were afterwards to be all armed and
sent to attack Portugal, still he would con-
tend that, acting strictly as neutrals, we
were bound not to interpose. He would
ask the noble viscount (Melville) at the
head of the Admiralty, if he had ever
heard of such a naval or military armament
as an unarmed vessel containing six hun-
dred unarmed men? He hoped their lord-
ships would receive some satisfactory ex-
planation on this subject-if it could be
given. He had seen the curious dispatch
of the noble duke to the noble earl (Aber-
deen) at the head of the Foreign Depart-
ment on this subject. He could account
for a communication of this kind between
the noble duke and the earl, by a wish
on the part of the former to let his noble
friend, whom he had kindly relieved
for a short time from the business of his
department, see what he had been doing
for him in his absence. The noble duke
seemed also to take upon himself the re-
sponsibility of another noble friend, who
was at the head of the Admiralty. He
avowed the whole act as his own, and as
if he alone were responsible. The whole
act," said he, is mine"-
"Me me adsum qui feci: inmeconvertite ferrum."
The whole proceeding reminded him of
some humorous designs in which he had
seen a noble lord represented as an actor
of all work. But when the government
put forth such statements to justify their
conduct as their belief that the Portuguese
were about to attack Terceira, the govern-
ment professed to believe what no person
in the country could believe but them-
selves. There was one circumstance,
however, which took off a little of the re-
gret he felt at the conduct of the British
government. He rejoied that those men
had not arrived at Terceira, because their

31 AddEress on the ~Lords

3d et. 4j 1 Commlissolnerg Spch,

absence contributed to enhance the glory
of one of the most brilliant achievements
in modern times. [hear] The commander
of that little island, placed at the head
of a few, opposed by a greater force,
threatened by the whole kingdom of Por-
tugal, and pressed by an enemy who could
choose his own time for attack, and pro-
portion his means to the occasion which
required them--the commander of that
island, with every thing to discourage
him, with the example of the feeling en-
tertained by this government towards his
countrymen, proved in the proceedingofthe
British ship of war-that commander had
attempted, and succeeded in the attempt,
to defend the island, which he accom-
plished by an action that must for ever
enrol the name of Count de Villa Flor
amongst the first officers of his day. The
glorious result at Terceira afforded a proof
of the injustice with which the Portuguese
character was treated. Our ministers had
not done them justice, nor had they done
justice to Don Miguel. They were en-
gaged in a war against the resources of
their own country, and were incapable of
acting a bold and manly part even against
such a monster. He could not conclude
without calling on the country to come
forward and show that the distresses were
not partial but general. If ministers
could not propose a remedy for the dis-
tress, others should be found who could.
[hear, hear] To persevere in the present
course was impossible. They must at-
tempt something to improve the state of
the country. It was not permitted to a
great people to act a little and obscure
part, if the ministers did not find a re-
medy, the country would have a ministry
by whom some remedy could be devised.
If this were not provided, and speedily,
he could see nothing await us but a rapid
diminution of power and influence. In
urging these opinions he felt that he was
acting with perfect consistency. It would
not be easy to convince him that the rela-
tion of cause and effect could not be
traced between what had happened and
what had been often foretold. If they
had taken a wide step in error, it was only
by taking as wide a step in retreat that
they could hope to recover their lost ad-
vantages. He did not think that a par-
liamentary inquiry would answer any good
purpose. The people of this country
would not be Englishmen if they were sa-
tisfied with any thing short of the prompt

exertion of the government to dissipate
the present distress. The government
had confessed themselves not only not
able to remedy the distress, on the con-
trary they now declared, they could not
even distinguish it. [hear] As for the
Speech, it meant nothing-it was non-
sense. He spoke without intending dis-
respect to the noble lords opposite; but
such was the light in which it struck him;
considered as the Speech, not of the king,
but of the minister, whose policy it was
intended to lay open. He was not one of
those who would object to an ordinary
compliment upon such an occasion; but
he felt that, by voting for this Address, he
should pledge himself to a blind reliance
upon ministers-a course which, under
all the circumstances, he did not consider
it his duty to adopt. He considered that
it would pledge him to an opinion as to
the state of the country which he believed
to be inconsistent with truth; and he was
astonished how the opinion could have
found its way into the Speech.
The Duke of Wellington.- If, my
lords, I could entertain any doubt as to
the propriety of the determination which
I had formed not to refer to those points
of the motion of my noble friend near me,
relative to foreign affairs, in answer to
noble lords opposite-I say, my lords, if
I had ever harboured any such doubts,
they would be entirely removed by the lat-
ter parts of the speech of the noble earl
(Carnarvon) who has just sat down. The
noble earl, instead of referring to those
parts in his Majesty's Speech, and in the
Address of my noble friend, which have
relation to the transactions of the present
year, has found it necessary to refer to the
history of the last two years, in order to
find ground of blame against his Majesty's
government. In the very last session of
parliament I declared my earnest anxiety
that your lordships would be pleased to
discuss the very question which the noble
earl has taken advantage of this night's
discussion to introduce to your considera-
tion-taken advantage of to introduce,
without notice to any one concerned, or
opportunity given them to consult the do-
cuments, that we might see whether the
noble earl quoted them correctly, or
whether any others were necessary to the
elucidation of those transactions to which
he referred. It was not to those transac-
tions that the noble earl addressed him-
self, but to certain papers for which he had.

33 A address on th~e L~ord,,

[ LORDS, ] Commissioners Speech.

upon some former occasion moved; and to- might be an usurper, or he might not;
night, upon the occasion of considering an that was not a question which we had a
Address in answer to the Speech from the right to settle by appeal to such arguments
Throne, he loses sight of all the topics as would show a disposition to violate the
of that Speech and Address, and refers to strict neutrality which it was our duty to
other transactions, upon which no informa- observe in the contest. The noble earl
tion has yet been given to the House, or, talks of the cruelty of that transaction at
at least, but very partial information, and Terceira, and regrets that blood has been
charges government with certain things- spilled. I regret it too. I believe that
where he found them God only knows- one man was killed, though the evidence
most certainly not in the despatches which on that point is not so clear as the noble
have been laid before this House, or which earl would make it appear. The fact has
have reached the public offices. I say, not been proved. But this was not our
my lords, that there was no such commu- affair; we did no more than was required
nication as that the noble earl refers to. to keep his Majesty's neutrality, [hear]
It was desired by Don Miguel that the and we were fully justified by the laws of
British troops should continue in Portu- nations, and by that treaty, in taking those
gal, but the proposal was negatived by the measures. [hear, hear, from Lord Holland]
British government; and it is not true The noble earl has also adverted to the
that any such proposition was made by correspondence having been carried on
any individual, or set of individuals, on through the person who fills the situation
the part of this government, that I ever which I have the honour to hold, upon
heard of. But the noble earl considers that occasion, as if I had taken upon my-
that to us is attributable the failure of the self the duties of my noble friend (Lord
insurrection of Oporto. Surely not, my i Aberdeen). But, if the noble earl would
lords; we had nothing to do with it. The quote accurately that correspondence, he
truth is, that the insurrectionists of Oporto would see the reason why it devolved upon
had all the strength of troops, abundance me, why my noble friend did not under-
of ammunition, and all the muniments of take it, and why it was afterwards trans-
war necessary to carry their points, and ferred to my noble friend. It remained
they were joined by the very officers who in my hands so long as the person acting
(the noble earl says) were absent, and here for Portugal did not assume an
who, if present, would have obtained all official character, which it was our object
the ends of the expedition ; but they with- ito prolong, but as soon as an official per-
drew from Portugal, they quitted the ship son did appear, the business was then
which carried them, they left the country, transferred to my noble friend, and from
because they saw the whole country that time he took upon himself the nego-
was against them. That was the fact, tiation. Such was the history of that
and it appeared upon the face of the cor- transaction as far as I recollect; for,
respondence. But, not only has the noble not thinking that an affair which hap-
earl referred to transactions for which there opened so long before last session would
are no documents,but also to others,ofwhich be made the subject of discussion to-night,
the documents are before your lordships, I do not pretend to speak with any ac-
and to which he might as well have given curacy upon it, and, in fact, trust myself
notice of his intention of referring to-night. entirely to my recollection of its circum-
I say, my lords, that we were neutral in the stances. I had intended, my lords, to
contest between Don Miguel and his niece confine myself in what I had to say to the
or brother; that we were neutral in the latter part of the Speech from the Throne,
civil war of Portugal. The neutrality was and the latter part of the Address, which
never violated by us. We were bound in was particularly alluded to by the noble
commercial relations with Portugal, bound earl at the table, and which, notwithstand-
by a commercial treaty before the time ing the great pains that have been taken
that he usurped the government of Portu- with other topics, I consider the most im-
gal ; and under that we had rights to portant part of the Speech. His Majesty
maintain. Being so situated, could we has thought proper to recommend to this
suffer an army to be organised at Ply- House that it would proceed with great
mouth for the purpose of invading Portu- caution in the consideration of the sub-
gal, the Azores, Terceira, or any other jects which are to be submitted to it. But
place within his dominions ? Don Miguel what does the noble earl opposite do? He

as Address on2 the Lords

[ Fp. 4. ] Commissioners Speech.

not only does not attend to the recommen-
dation of his Majesty-a recommendation
to proceed with prudence and discretion-
but he calls upon your lordships to pledge
yourselves, not only to inquire into those
transactions for the good of the country,
but he points out the very measures which
ought to be adopted ; namely, an alteration
of the currency. [hear. No, from the Op-
position] This, I say, my lords, is the
measure pointed out by the noble earl. He
has thought proper to make some observa-
tions upon the Speech, as if his majesty's
government had neglected to ascertain the
true state of the country-as if they were
ignorant of its distress, and as if I, in par-
ticular, was negligent of my duty in this
instance. 1 can assure him that no one
is more sensible than I am of the state of
things, and that no one laments it more
sincerely than I do: and I am certain that
independently of motive or interest in this
subject arising from my official situation,
there is no person in the country who feels
for its distress more acutely than the per-
son who fills the situation which I have
the honour to hold. The noble earl has
said that, in the Speech, the whole of the
distress is attributed to the state of the sea-
sons; but what is the statement of the
Speech upon that subject? Without af-
fecting to quote it literally, is it not, in
substance, this-" that, in considering the
remedies to be applied to this state of
things, you are to give due weight to the
unfavourable nature of the seasons, which
occasioned enormous expenses in collect-
ing the harvest, and which has, in fact,
occasioned one bad harvest, if not another;
so that the collection of it was excessively
expensive." Surely these circumstances
must not be overlooked in taking the sub-
ject of distress into consideration. But,
besides the agriculturists, there is another
class labouring under great distress-the
manufacturers. I want to know whether
the competition of machinery with labour
in all departments of mechanics-the ge-
neral application of steam-the competi-
tion abroad with our manufacturers-and
the general imitation of our fabrics-have
not produced very great distress amongst
the manufacturers at home? These are
the circumstances to which his Majesty re-
fers as important to be considered in con-
nection with the subject of distress, and
they are those over which parliament has
no control. Can this House prevent com-
petition by foreign markets with our own ?

Can we prevent improvementsin machinery?
Can we prevent steam from being applied
to foreign manufacture ? And yet we all
know that this injurious competition is
ruinous to the manufacturer, by lowering
his wages, or throwing the labourers out
of employ. But then, the noble earl says
the distress is general-universal. My
lords, I am afraid the distress is very ge-
neral; but I must say, notwithstanding
the distress which prevails, that there are
symptoms to show that the country is ad-
vancing. I say, and it may be proved by
the documents, that the exports of British
manufacture have increased, have been in-
creasing for the last few years, and that in
the last year they were larger than they
ever were before. I say, my lords, that
the amount of exports of produce of Bri-
tish manufacture is greater than it ever
was before. [hear] I say that there are,
upon all sides, shown the strongest symp-
toms of improvement in the condition of
the country-that there is not a rail-road,
or canal, upon which the traffic has not
increased of late years, including last year.
True it is, my lords, that the profits of
trade are now smaller than they were for-
merly; but if profit, however small, is
being derived from the labour of men and
animals, surely it is impossible but that
some advantage must accrue to some one.
It is true that these advantages are not so
great as they were ten or fifteen years ago
[hear] but there is some advantage, or
would the increase of traffic exist ? And
where that is the case the distress cannot
be said to be universal. There is another
circumstance which I would call to your
lordships attention. There is in this coun-
try a very large class of persons who are
retail dealers; I ask if they are distressed ?
[ Hear, and Yes, from the Opposition.]
This class is very numerous in every
town and village in England; I want
to know if they are distressed? Are
they able to pay their rents? Who build
and rent all the new houses that one sees
in all directions? These, my lords, are
circumstances, say what you please, which
every man must feel and acknowledge as
indications that the country, notwithstand-
ing the pressure upon it, is still rising, and
in some points must continue to rise. I
will now say one word, my lords, upon the
remedies proposed by the noble earl. That
noble lord has entirely misunderstood the
argument of the noble viscount (Goderich).
The noble viscount had said that the reve-.

31 Address on th~e L~ords

[ LORDS, ] Commissioners Speech.

nue in the year 1815 produced eighty mil-
lions sterling, and that, though taxes had
been reduced, first tothe amount of eighteen
millions, and afterwards to the amount
of nine millions, making altogether twenty-
seven millions, the revenue produced in
sound currency now the same amount
as it did-in a depreciated currency be-
fore. Does not, then, this fact of the
revenue keeping up, though the taxes
were taken off, prove that the consump-
tion of articles had increased one-third
since the period when the taxes were
taken off-a proof, also, of the better state
of the country. It would be impossible
for the country to increase in its consump-
tion one-third in fifteen years if it was suf-
fering under the universal distress which
the noble Lord talks of. The noble Lord op-
posite and the noble Lord who spoke last
(Carnarvon) have thought proper to refer
the distress to a deficient circulation.
Now, my Lords, I hold in my hand a paper
which gives the relative amounts of the
circulation at different periods. By this
it appears that the largest sum ever known
to be in circulation during the Bank Re-
striction was 64,000,0001. sterling. The
sum was made up of-
Bank of England notes........... X30,000,0000
Country-bank notes ............ 23,000,000
Gold ........................ 4,000,000
Silver ....................... 7,000,000
Total 64,000,000
But in the last year the circulation consisted
Bank of England notes.......... 19,900,000
Country-bank notes ............ 9.200,000
Gold ........................ 28,000,000
Silver .................. ..... 8,000,000
Total 65,100,000

Being an excess over the largest circula-
tion ever known. [hear] If the ques-
tion be about the actual amount of money
in circulation, I beg to observe that there is
more money in circulation now than there
ever was at any period of the Bank restric-
tion, and that whoever considers that there
is abroad sixty-five millions, cannot say
that money is scarce. Why, the truth
of the matter is, that noble lords want not
extended circulation, but unlimited circu-
lation-that is-to give an unlimited power
to some individuals-not the Crown, any
one but the Crown-to coin as much
money, in the shape of paper, as they
please; that they may be enabled to lend

a fictitious capital to all sorts of specula-
tors. [hear] This is what the noble
earl opposite wants, but what the country
cannot have without exposing it to a de-
gree of ruin from which it has so nar-
rowly escaped in 1825 and 1826. [hear]
If your lordships will attend to the argu-
ments of the noble lord, you will see that
this is what he wants. For what is the
language now held? "In the west of
England," one says, "I inquired, and
found that the farmer could not borrow
any money: his corn-yards and hay-ricks
were full, but he was not able to raise
money upon them; and why? Because
the country banker cannot coin II. notes."
[hear] If these bankers, says the
noble earl, cannot lend their money, they
cannot get any interest upon their capital.
I beg his pardon. The banker may have
discount upon cashing the farmer's bill;
but he is not content with that profit, he
wants to be coining 11. notes, and to have
profit upon those insecure notes, in ad-
dition to the discount. [hear] And what
is it the noble earl wants now, and will,
perhaps, move for in a few days ? Not to
increase the circulation, for there is as
much now as at any former period, but to
give certain persons power to lend as
much money as they please upon land or
no land, upon security or no security. I
submit to your lordships that the noble
earl has not proved the want of money-
there never was a period when money
was less wanted. Is there any man, how-
ever speculative any scheme, however
visionary, provided only it is a little plau-
sible, which now-a-days lacks support?
Is there any power, however bankrupt,
even Portugal and Brazil, though the cre-
ditors of these countries have been so ill-
treated, but can borrow money in this
city upon any security or no security ?
In fact, capital is more abundant now
than it was ever known to be, and the
evil is certainly not too limited a circula-
tion. I am sorry to trouble your lord-
ships with these observations, which are
rather replies to what has been said by
the noble earl, and I will now pass to
more important topics in his Majesty's
Speech-namely, the measures which af-
fect the permanent welfare of the country.
In answer to all the declamation that we
have heard to night, as to the evils re-
sulting from free trade, and this system of
currency, I beg to state to your lordships
only one fact. Since the year 1815, but

39 Address on th~e Lords

[ FEB. 4. ] Commissioners Speech.

principally since the bank restriction was
taken off, measures have been adopted by
which this country has been relieved from
twenty-seven millions a year taxes, besides
three millions or four millions interest of the
debt, representing a capital of hundred mil-
lions of debt. I begyou tobear this in mind
when you are discussing this question;
and I would tell the advocates of what is
called an "equitable adjustment," that,
with all their measures, they could not
have accomplished so much. I repeat,
that since the bank restriction has been
taken off, the country has been re-
lieved to the amount of nine millions and
eighteen millions besides. I wish to take no
credit to myself for this ; I give it to those
to whom it is properly due-to my noble
friend upon the cross-bench (Lord Bexley)
and to the noble viscount (Goderich) op-
posite. Your lordships, then, perceive what
maybedoneby economy ;we giveourpledge
to strive to attain similar ends by the like
means, and we call upon you, and count
upon your giving us your aid, in putting
that economy into practice which will
enable us to imitate and rival our prede-
cessors. I trust that your lordships will
believe that his Majesty's ministers will
do all in their power to relieve the distresses
of the country.
The Marquis of Clanricarde said, not-
withstanding the tone in which the noble
duke had thought proper to comment
upon the observations of the noble earl
(Carnarvon), he contended that there
never was a session in which parliament
waited with so much patience and com-
posure for information respecting our fo-
reign relations as the last session. Some
of the mostimportant papers, relating to the
Portugal affair, were not laid before this
House till the close of the last session.
The noble earl, in his opinion, had taken
a proper opportunity to canvass these
papers to-night, for this was in fact the
first opportunity which had offered for
such an inquiry. Could it be said that
the notice of them was unseasonable now,
when government were about, by their
own confession, to recognize Don Miguel ?
[hear]-He hoped that some informa-
tion would be given to the House re-
specting the mission of a noble friend
of his to the Brazils, for without such
information it would not be dealing
fairly with the House to call upon it to
pledge itself to any course of policy with
respect to Don JMiguel, which, by agreeing

in this Address, they might be supposed
to be. He hoped some noble lord would
make a motion on the subject, but it would
be more satisfactory and becoming if it
came from ministers themselves. [hear]
He was not disposed to canvass the
whole Speech in detail, but he could
not help congratulating ministers upon
their great versatility, in being able to
extract pleasure from Turkey, which they
had hitherto regarded as a source of pain.
[hear] He hoped the explanation would
be given relative to the mission to the
The Earl of Aberdeen explained. No
advantage was intended to be taken of the
House with respect to the negotiation
with Don Miguel because their lordships
might concur in this Address. Their
lordships might rest assured that all due
information would be laid before them
before any steps were taken in that re-
Lord Holland.-Steps ?-[hear]
The Earl of Aberdeen.-What I mean
to say is, that before any thing is done,
parliament will be furnished with infor-
mation tending to explain and justify the
advice which we may give. [hear, hear,
from the Opposition] That any inten-
tion exists at this moment of taking such a
step as that of recognizing Don Miguel I
will not now say; but thus far I will be
explicit, that I myself have long considered
the recognition as a question of time only,
for take place it must at one time or other,
though perhaps the period may be pre-
cipitated or retarded by different con-
siderations. Happen, however, when it
may, I have only to repeat, that all the
information which will be calculated to
explain and justify our measures shall be
laid before you.
Lord Holland.-I do not rise to prolong
this discussion, but to have, if I can, a
clear understanding of the meaning of the
noble lord's expression. If I understand
him rightly, he says that, when the happy
period arrives when we are to acknow-
ledge as king of Portugal that usurper
whose whole course has been marked by
the greatest hostility and perfidy to this
country, parliament is to be made ac-
quainted with all about it ; but is it to be
before or after, for there lies all the dif-
ference ? In the early part of his short
address, the noble lord used the express
sion steps taken," which he afterwards
qualified by saying that the information

41 Address on the Lords

[ LORDS, I Commissioners Speech.

would be afforded before any determina-
tion was come to upon the subject of Don
Miguel. Now, my lords, in my opinion
these expressions make all the difference,
and it is of the last necessity that we un-
derstand each other clearly. This is the
more necessary after the rebuke which my
noble friend (Lord Carnarvon) received
from the noble duke opposite, who, when,
two years ago, these papers were refused,
then declared that such a refusal was
solely owing to negotiations then pending,
and that he longed, nay, panted for a dis-
cussion upon them, and was never so anx-
ious to go into a full explanation of the
foreign relations of the country-after-
wards allowed a whole session to pass
without saying one word to parliament on
the subject-and, at last, when the House
called for information, at the end of a
fortnight or three weeks, came down here
in a way that nobody ever saw a Secre-
tary of State, I am sure, before-laying
a bundle of papers upon the table, with-
out saying whether they were all the docu-
ments necessary, or saying a single word
to explain them, all incomplete and gar-
bled as they were. I say, my lords, that
when my noble friend near me, with great
eloquence and great perspicuity, makes
some observations upon these papers, the
noble duke says, Oh, this is the old
story; what do you mean now ? why didn't
you give notice?" [laughter]-It is the
more necessary that we understand each
other at once, lest he again turn round
upon us hereafter. The fact is, my lords,
that these papers do not contain one-half
of the thing, and the conduct of govern-
ment, as appears upon the face of them,
is bad and disgraceful indeed. [hear]-I
hope the noble duke will give us this in-
formation with a good grace. I do not
want to press him now, but that, before
the time arrives when we are to recognize
Don Miguel as king, it will be found ne-
cessary to lay the whole case before us,
and, above all, have it explained, since we
were told from the Throne last session,
that the head of the House of Braganza
was the quarter where these differences
were to be terminated, and we know that
a minister had been sent out to the Bra-
zils to suggest the grounds of a negotia-
tion between the contending parties.
What was the termination, and why the
failure, of that mission? not a word was
there of it in the papers before the House,
though parliament had an undoubted

right to the most extended information
upon the subject. I hope, that before
they resolve upon the disgrace and ig-
nominy of recognizing that bloody usurper
and tyrant of a country which is of more
importance to this nation than any other
country in Europe, your lordships will be
favoured with full information upon all
that has been done in the matter. There
is another subject, too, the affairs of the
east, upon which I trust the lords will not
be left without information. I would not
say any thing upon that subject now, ex-
cept that 1 thought his majesty's ministers
had treated their ancient ally," the Turk,
with great disrespect. For my own part,
I should not have regretted the fall of an
odious and disgusting tyranny, which had
done so much mischief to mankind. As
a citizen of the world, I am sorry that the
Russians had not taken Constantinople.
People might say, Oh, we should have
sent a fleet to prevent them." But their
lordships might depend upon it that if the
Russians had taken Constantinople, we
should have sent no fleet, whatever we
might have threatened to do.
The Earl of Aberdeen said, he could state
to the noble baron, that whenever his
Majesty's ministers thought proper to ad-
vise their sovereign to remove diplomatic
relations with Portugal, they should not
ask his advice as to the course that ought
to be adopted. Their lordships might
depend upon being furnished with the
fullest information with information
which he trusted would fully justify the
government in every step that had been
taken. The noble lord, who never spoke
of Don Miguel but in terms of strong
vituperation and almost of horror, [hear,
from Lord Holland] must be aware now
how much the conduct of that individual
had been exaggerated. The noble lord
must know what the spirit of party and
political prejudice would do against the
character of princes, even when they least
deserved opprobrium. That Don Miguel's
character might merit all the reproaches
cast upon it was possible, and he would
be very far from defending or even pal-
liating what was considered reprehensible
conduct in him. But the noble lord ought
to have been the last person to object to
him as a usurper, because he had on
former occasions shown no disinclination
to acknowledge usurpers. Don Miguel
was, besides, the choice of the people.
He maintained that it was the interest of

43 Address on th~e Lords

England to connect itself with Portugal, became the duty of parliament to consider
whether governed by one brother or the how far the conduct of his Majesty's mi-
other of the House of Braganza; and the nisters had served to separate Portugal
interruption which had taken place in the from England. When the present mi-
relations between the two countries was of nistry of this country came into office,
longer duration than had ever occurred England had military possession of Portu-
for two hundred years before. The in- gal, but now, in consequence of our con-
terruption of those relations was calcu- duct, Portugal was looking to a connexion
lated to injure the union which had so with France. He hoped parliament would
long subsisted between the two countries, take some steps to know how far the pre-
and open a way to other powers in Eu- sent situation of affairs was the result of
rope to occupy that place which we had misconduct in the ministry, or of that
held in relation to Portugal. It was not abominable and disgusting outrage, and
therefore to be wondered at that his Ma- violation of law, perpetrated at Terceira.
jesty's government should be anxious, at The insinuation which the noble earl had
the first proper moment, to go back to made that he (Lord Holland) was inclined
that state which had been the settled to favour revolutionary governments,
policy of this country for so many years, though conveyed in parliamentary lan-
When the government should think that guage, he considered to be highly im-
that moment had arrived, their lordships proper, especially when the situation
vould be informed of it, and they then which the noble earl held in his Majesty's
would be in a condition to judge whether government was considered.
his Majesty's ministers had acted properly; The Earl of Winchilsea said, he would
and he trusted that the House and the give with heartfelt satisfaction his sup-
country would not think they had acted port to the Amendmentto the Address, the
precipitately. character and nature of which had been
Lord Holland said, he had never expected much misrepresented by the noble duke
that the noble Earl would ask his advice opposite. The proposed Amendment called
upon any subject, for he appeared to take on the House to take into its serious con-
all his measures without consulting par- sideration the present distressed situation
liament or indeed any body else. In allu- of the country-distress admitted on all
sion to some peculiar expressions that had hands to exist, and from which all in-
fallen from the noble Earl, he wished to terests were suffering-and to consider
say a few words merely in explanation. what remedies ought to be applied to it:
The noble Earl had said that he would not it did not allude to any specific remedy.
ask advice as to the time of re-opening He felt regret at the slight allusion made
the relations with Portugal; but he trusted in his Majesty's Speech to the unparalleled
parliament would not wait till the noble distress existing in the country. The
earl chose to give information, but would slightness of the allusion might have arisen
of itself call upon ministers to lay the from the advisers of the Crown, whose
documents connected with the subject on duty it was to inform his Majesty of the
the table. With respect to Don Miguel, state of the country, having either with-
he was not merely a usurper, but he had held information or misrepresented it, or
seized the throne in spite of the promises he told his Majesty that it was not in the power
had made. He had directly broken faith of Parliament to afford relief; but if the
with us; and it was not merely because he House neglected to take into consideration
was a usurper that he (Lord Holland) was the distressed state of the country, it would
unwilling to acknowledge Don Miguel. be neglecting its duty to the public. It
That prince was a far different sort of a might cause the country to think that
person from Napoleon,whowas no usurper, the House was unable to legislate for the
but had been called to the government of public good; he was sorry to say that he
France, in the same manner as the royal saw a spirit for forming associations spring-
family of this kingdom, by the voice of ing up in different parts of the country, not
parliament, and the representatives of the for the purpose of laying the grievances of
people; and therefore he had been dis- the people before the Parliament, but
posed to acknowledge him as the king of to propose remedies of their own, and
France. The noble earl had said that it to redress their own wrongs; and if
was the interest of this country to main- their lordships neglected to inquire into
tmna oannexia with Portugal, It then the distress of the country, they would

[ VEB. 4..1 CommissionersS Speech.

45 Address on the Ltords

[ LORDS, ] Commissioners Speech.

be giving encouragement to that spirit.
He certainly believed that there were other
causes besides the unparalleled badness
of the seasons in causing the present dis-
tress. Some causes had been mentioned
in his Majesty's Speech as being beyond
the control of Parliament; but as those
causes were not explained, many specula-
tive and perhaps erroneous opinions would
be formed, which would not tend to the
tranquillity and peace of the country.
From personal experience and from infor-
mation he had received from well-informed
persons, he was convinced that distress
was pervading every county of England at
present in a most unparalleled degree, and
therefore he gave his most decided support
to the noble earl's Amendment.
Earl Stanhope explained.-If the noble
duke had done him the honour to attend
to his Amendment, he would have found
that it did not pledge the House to the in-
troduction of the question which the noble
duke imagined. It only went to this ex-
tent, to call upon the House to inquire into
the cause of the distress-the existence of
which was not disputed-and to admi-
nisterspeedy relief. If the House neglected
its duty, and failed to inquire into the dis-
tresses of the country, feelings of contempt,
on the part of the people, towards their
lordships, would naturally arise.
Lord King then rose.-He found it to
be absolutely necessary to move an amend-
ment of his own; [a laugh]-for he could
neither agree in that part of the Address
which the noble duke opposite had moved
(the Duke of Buccleuch,) respecting the
distresses of the country; nor in the
amendment of the noble earl near him
(Earl Stanhope), supported as it had been
by his speech. The objection he had to
his Majesty's Speech was, because it con-
veyed no adequate idea of the distress
of the country,-of the nature of the dis-
ease,-and none whatever of the proper
cure. Their lordships heard from that
Speech the ten-times-told tale of temporary
distress; but he wanted to know the reason
why, after fifteen years peace, the country
experienced a constant recurrence of what
was called temporary distress. When
their lordships saw distress so universal as
the present, no doubt they must think that
there was a great pervading and adequate
cause. That cause was an error of the
legislature, but not of the nature the
noble earl supposed. It was the fault of
the government, which government could

remedy. If their lordships looked to the
speech of the noble earl, they would find
that it bore with it a strong hankering
after the flesh-pots of Egypt. The noble
earl remarked how well things went on
when paper formed the circulating medium.
Then rents were high. But such things
could not last long; and now those who
have caused the distress do not want to
feel any of it. Those who voted for the
Bank Restriction-bill, found everyone very
smooth while it continued; but when there
came a specie circulation, they then saw
themselves obliged to pay their share of
the burdens with which they had before
loaded others. This was retributive jus-
tice, and Bentham himself could not have
invented a punishment more appropriate
to the crime. They were suffering because
they had encouraged by their voice, and
supported by their votes, the depreciation
of the currency, and the suffering was just
in proportion to the degree of excess in
which they indulged their wishes with re-
spect to that currency. He remembered
some lines of a poet, which he considered
exceedingly applicable to the situation and
expressions of those persons, and which
were not more remarkable for their seve-
rity than for their truth.
' Ye ruined squires and scathed nobility;
What boots it now to raise a loud lament
Of grinding taxes and of falling rent,
And fill our Senate with your senseless cry ?
Time was, the coming mischief to prevent,
But then with flinty heart and tearless.eye,
You saw your peasants droop-your soldiers die;

Hind paid with rags, and troops to Walcheren sent.
A sturdy swain deprived of his meed,
Even by your war made slavish, lean, and poor;
What reck'd ye-you but gained an ample store.
So now shall pity leave you in your need,
Unmov'd we hear you rant, and howl, and roar;
For none who taste of woe have e'er deserv'd it more."
For the last fifteen years every thing
had been getting bad, but now every
thing exhibited symptoms of being worse,
except perhaps the royal palaces which
they saw rising around them. And what
did their lordships suppose this proved ?
Why it proved that the progress of society
was arrested, and they had arrived at what
the political economists call the station-
ary, which immediately precedes the de-
clining. There have been a variety of rea-
sons assigned at various times for the dis-
tress. At one time there was a super-
abundance of food; at another a super-
Sabundance of goods; at a third they
were labouring under a load of paper; at
a fourth under a load of money; all these
foolish reasons were assigned as the cause

4'7 Adtdress on thle Lords

of that sinking and going down which country. That monopoly, equal to a tax
every one experienced. The true reason on labour, prevented the French from sell-
he apprehended was to be found in the ing their wines. But then there were, no
odious monopolies which met them at doubt, many eloquent persons in France,
every turn. The nation was, in fact, the who would dwell with ecstacy on the
victim of monopoly. They had a mono- merits of French iron, and exclaim,
poly of beer-a monopoly of corn-of What! are we to be dependent on Eng-
sugar-of tea; and the effect of all these land for our iron ?" That, however, was
fell on the consumer. [hear, hear, hear] not good for the owners of woods, for it
Every one who suffered from any one of raised the price, and the result was, that
these exclaimed against that monopoly, or France was punished for her monopoly by
against the other, as the monopoly hap- a tax on labour, by the loss of the sale of
opened to gall them; but no one seemed to her wines, ard by a tax on fuel. By these
care for the poor consumer who paid for means nations destroyed their own pros-
all. He verily believed that the relief perity; and although he believed there
which might be afforded by the repeal of were means of raising this country to a
these monopolies, would amount to at least higher pitch of prosperity than she had
one-half the national debt. [hear] He ever yet possessed, if it could but be pre-
was confident that the nation would be a vailed on to become a customer of those
gainer to that amount, and have a good nations which were its rivals, yet he
bargain too, for he considered the relief doubted the firmness of those whose duty
would prove at least equal to fifteen mil- it was to execute such a task. The noble
lions sterling per annum. The price lord apologized for troubling the House so
of raw produce had been raised most much in detail, and concluded abruptly
improvidently by these monopolists; and by proposing his amendment-to be in-
that was the cause of the distress. By serted after "Majesty," in the 13th para-
raising the price of the raw produce, the graph; which was- :
manufactured article was rendered dearer; That after fifteen years of uninter-
and then there was no demand. That was rupted peace, this House laments that the
their situation at present. The price was general condition of the people is not ma-
raised; the demand was lessened; the terially improved, or the prosperity of the
profits, of course, diminished; and then, country perceptibly increased; that, on
as a matter of course, capital found its way the contrary,the landed and manufacturing
abroad, instead of being brought into interests, as well as the traders and
activity at home. This was the effect of labourers of every description, have fre-
monopoly. The landed interest was suf- quently been afflicted and still continue
fering from monopoly and want of demand, to be weighed down by severe distress:
because the manufacturers, who were also That it is the duty of Parliament to
suffering from the same causes, could not examine into the causes which have pro-
afford to eat. There were three countries duced these distresses, and to remove the
suffering at this moment from the same impediments which retard the progress of
causes-countries which possessed a super- the national prosperity:
abundance of wealth and resources beyond That the necessaries of life and the
every other in Europe, and none of which materials of manufacture are rendered
were oppressed from the absence of a paper dear by taxation and regulation : by these
currency. These were America; France, means too much is taken from the indus-
and England. America, not behind this trious classes, and, in many instances, too
country in folly, has had the weakness to much is given to the privileged classes.
deprive herself of the advantages nature That it is a grievous aggravation of
bestowed on her, and instead of labouring the public burthens, in addition to near
to increase the export of her raw produce, fifty millions of taxes deemed necessary
weakly endeavours to become a manufac- for the public service, still further to per-
turing country. In France, where the mit enormous sums to be extorted frbm
system has been somewhat analogous to the people by the intolerable monopolies
that of this country, the people were suf- of corn, beer, sugar, tea, and other arti-
fering equal depression, because they too cles, established for the private benefit of
had their monopoly. First, there was the powerful and favoured classes, at the ex-
monopoly of iron, which rendered that ma- pense of the great body of colnsmers atd
trial two or three times dearer than in this of the public good ;

[ REB. 4.1i Commissioners Speech.

49 Address on the Lords

[ LORDS, ] Commissioners Speech.

By these monopolies, the cost of the
first necessaries of life is enhanced, the
rate of profit in all trades diminished,
capital driven abroad to seek a more pro-
fitable employment, and the productive
powers of the national industry are greatly
reduced:-By restrictions imposed on the
import of foreign corn, the markets of
other nations are in a great degree closed
against us, the demand for the produce of
the national industry is limited, and the
symptoms of general distress are mani-
fested in the inadequate reward of labour,
and in the increasing difficulty of finding
any profitable employment for capital and
industry :
By the partial and exorbitant duties
of Excise imposed upon beer and malt,
combined with the double monopoly con-
ferred both on the grower of barley and on
those who are licensed to sell beer, the
price of that necessary of life is so greatly
enhanced, that in the course of eighty
years, whilst the population has been more
than doubled in number, the consumption
of malt has actually decreased:
By the monopoly conferred on the
cultivators of sugar in the British West-
India islands, the price of that great article
of consumption is very much enhanced at
the expense of the people of England, who
might be better supplied if permitted to
resort to other markets, and who are also,
for the benefit of the monopolists of the
said islands, burthened with the heavy
charge of defending those unhealthy and
precarious possessions:
By the exclusive privilege of naviga-
tion and trade to China conferred on the
East-India Company, the whole supply of
tea consumed in the United Kingdom is
placed at the discretion of a single com-
pany of traders: monopoly in this, as in
every similar instance, has produced its
usual consequences; the price of tea is
greatly increased, as compared with the
price of the same article in the free mar-
kets of Europe and America; the quantity
imported is limited by the narrow views of
obtaining a large profit on a small supply,
entertained by the monopolist company;
the British manufactures suited to the
Chinese markets are consequently exported
in much smaller amount; and the public
thus suffers in the increased price of tea,
in the diminished demand for home manu-
factures, and in the exclusion from all na-
vigation and trade to one of the greatest
markets of the world;

"That it appears that these gigantic
monopolies, superadded to the heavy load
of taxation, have impoverished the coun-
try, and produced the public distress:
That all prohibitions and restrictions
imposed for the benefit of particular classes
or companies, for the purpose of producing
artificial high prices, are no less impolitic
than unjust:
That our own exclusion from the
great market of the world, and the cessa-
tion of demand at home, are the necessary
consequences of our own measures; be-
cause it is in the nature of things that a
nation which refuses to buy the produc-
tions of other countries cannot sell its
That we can only expect to derive
permanent relief from our distresses, and
improvement in our condition, from the
strictest economy in every branch of the
public expenditure, from the abolition of
all exclusive privileges and monopolies,
from an unrestricted supply of the first
necessaries of life and of the materials of
manufacture, and from a real free trade,
by which the whole community, as con-
sumers of goods, will be greatly benefited,
the labouring classes enabled to procure a
fair reward, the capitalist to augment those
funds by which all labour is supported,
and the efficiency of British industry per-
mitted to produce its natural result in en-
riching the country, and thus to restore
and to secure the public prosperity."
Earl Darnley said, he preferred the ori-
ginal motion of the noble Duke to the
amendment of the noble Earl, or to that
of his noble friend near him (Lord King).
The Address did not preclude investiga-
tion; on the contrary, it invited it. It
only exhorted their lordships-a recom-
mendation in which he fully concurred-
to proceed with caution and prudence; for
if they held out to the people, suffering as
they were, a pledge or prospect of imme-
diate relief by any of the nostrums which
were proposed, they would be doing
mischief instead of good. He rose prin-
cipally for the purpose of noticing an
omission in the Speech of the Lords Com-
missioners. He observed that it contained
no mention of Ireland. He admitted that
much had been done for that part of the
kingdom by his noble friend opposite
(Wellington), but much remained still to
be done. He should not, however, intrude
upon their lordships with that subject at
so late an hour, and the more particularly

51 Address on the Lords

[ FEB. 4.] Commissioners Speech.

as it was remarkable that, from whatever
cause it proceeded, scarcely a single repre-
sentative peer of Ireland had been in at-
tendance that day. He wished, however,
to lay his claim to an early opportunity of
bringing forward some motion on the sub-
ject of Ireland, unless his noble friend at
the head of the government should ori-
ginate something of the kind, who could
of course do it with more effect than any
other person.
The Duke of Wellington explained.-He
denied that allusion to Ireland was omitted
on account of the absence of particular
noble lords, and declared, that although
the situation of that country did not re-
quire such a notice, its situation had not
escaped the attention of his Majesty's
government, who intended to introduce a
measure connected with it in the course of
the session.
Earl Stanhope said, he wished, in expla-
nation, to observe previously to the con-
clusion of the debate, that he had meant
to represent that there was but one of two
alternatives open; either to extend the
currency, or to return, as had been wished
by a large public meeting, to the expendi-
ture of the country previously to the
French revolutionary war.
The Marquis of Lansdowne wished to
state shortly his reasons why he should
vote against the noble earl's Amendment.
It appeared from the speech with which
that Amendment was introduced, that it
was the object of the noble earl to induce
the House to do all in its power again to
plunge the country into what he could not
but consider one of the greatest evils that
could await any nation-certainly one of
the greatest evils this country had ever
endured-an unlimited issue of paper cir-
culation. If the first step were taken, it
would lead to subsequent steps, against
which he felt it his duty to guard this
'House and the public. He knew of no
extension thatwas not in dangerof amount-
ing to an unlimited issue. He did not
know, however, if he should not have sup-
ported the Amendment, had not the Speech
admitted distress, and in terms which im-
plied a promise that inquiry should take
place upon the subject, and which the
country had a right to expect. It existed
unquestionably to a lamentable extent;
but he concurred in the recommendation
that it should receive the most cautious
inquiry. He thought it necessary to make
these few observations in explanation of

the vote which it was his intention to give
on this occasion. He had often felt from
experience the great difficulty which at-
tended the discussion of numerous foreign
and domestic interests at the same time;
but if that difficulty had been felt on
former occasions, how much more strongly
did it attach on the present, since the in-
terval which had elapsed since last session
of parliament had produced changes and
influences affecting our foreign interests of
a most important character; and others
more disastrous, affecting our domestic
interests from one end of the country to
the other. Although noble lords had a
right to express their opinions on these
events, it was impossible they could do so
all at once with that degree of attention
and caution which their importance re-
quired. He would not, therefore, take the
present opportunity of entering into the
discussion of those changes and circum-
stances, some of which most materially
affected the glory and prosperity of this
country. He agreed with the sentiments
expressed by the noble mover of the Ad-
dress on the subject of Greece; he re-
joiced to hear that, out of those hostilities
which had taken place in the east of Eu-
rope, there had grown up the prospect of
the independence of that country ; and to
have heard it afterwards announced that
measures had been concerted for her paci-
fication. Whatever might be the result of
those measures, he trusted it would be one
calculated to make Greece happy and in-
dependent; for, if independent, she must
be essentially free and strong. He hoped
every effort would be made to connect her
with every other power of Europe, and
particularly from her maritime interests to
form a permanent connexion with this
country. If any efforts had been made to
cramp and limit the power of Greece, he
should rejoice that those efforts failed.
With regard to Portugal, he could not feel
so content, after what he had heard from
the noble secretary opposite. More infor-
mation was due to parliament and to the
public, yet it was not to be granted till
measures should be adopted which would
render it no longer useful; that he was not
quite so satisfied to learn, He was happy
to hear that it was the intention of govern-
ment to carry on the work, and to effect
all possible reductions; he did not question
that the noble duke would persevere in a
course which he had already commenced,
and in which he might depend upon roe

5i3 Address on the Lords

55 Address on the Lords

[ LORDS, ] Commissioners Speech.

ceiving the support of those who were not danger to the country, of which the wel-
connected with the government, and in fare must be destroyed, and of which the
which he would be entitled to the support tranquillity might be disturbed by a con-
of every person both in and out of parlia- tinuance of the distress which is now suf-
ment to the last farthing which he should fered.
propose to reduce consistent with the STANHOPE,
safety of the country. This was a subject RICHMoND (for the 1st and
upon which men of every party and every 3rd reasons.)
theory were united; without waiting,
therefore, for any of those other remedies HOUSE OF COMMONS.
which might be proposed, let him continue H E O CS.
the reformation already begun in the pub- Thursday, Feb. 4.
lie expenditure, and he would receive more MINUTEs.] The House met at two o'clock; and after having
credit with the country than from any been summoned to attend in the House of Lords, and pre-
other measure whatsoever. With respect viously to reading the Copy of the Lords Commissioners
Speech, the Speaker acquainted the House, that he had
to Ireland, he wished the House had heard issued warrants for new writs, for EYE, in the room of Sir
from high authority that the great mea- Miles Nightingall, deceased: for SOUTHAMPTON, in the
sure, adopted in he last session of parlia- oom of Wm. Chamberlayne, esq. deceased: LIMERICK
CouNrY, in the room of Thomas Lloyd, esq. deceased.
ment, had been attended with that degree The marq. of Douno, for Aldeburgh: PHILIP CHARLES
of successwhich, notwithstanding that dis- SmnEY, esq. for Eye: DANIEL O'CONNELL,* esq. for
tress prevailed, had still been productive Clare: GEORGE BANKES, esq. for Corfe Castle: Sir JAMES
SCARLETT, for Peterborough: and Sir Eow. BURTEN-
of most happy consequences in that part SHAW SuGDEN, for Weymouth: then took the oaths and
of the United Kingdom. their seats.
On the question whether the words pro- ROwLAND STEPHENSON.-The Speaker then acquainted
posed to e left out should stand prt of the House, that he had received a letter from Mr. James
ed to be ft t should stand part f Bourdillon, solicitor to the estate of Rowland Stephenson,
the original motion, the numbers were- esq., a bankrupt, inclosing a certificate of the commission-
Content 71; Not Content 9; Majority ers under the Commission issued against the said Rowland
Stephenson; and the said letter was read; and is as fol-
against the Amendment 62. lows:-

List of the Minority against the Address.
Dukes. Tankerville,
Cumberland, Winchilsea,
Richmond, Radnor.
Newcastle. Lords.
Earls. Rivers,
Stanhope, Northwich.

following protest was entered in their Lord-
ships Journal next day: -
DISSENTIENT.-1. Because it is the
bounden duty of parliament to examine
the causes of public distress, and, as far as
may be in its power, to administer speedy
and effectual relief.
2. Because the grievous distress which
now affects the country in many branches
of productive industry, appears to be the
result of legislative measures, and might,
therefore, be relieved, if not altogether re-
moved, by a different course of policy,
particularly with respect to the currency,
as the alteration in its value has greatly
increased the weight of all the public bur-
thens, and of all the private engagements
which existed previously to that altera-
3. Because the relief which ought to be
administered cannot be delayed without
injury and injustice, and also without

Bread Street, 19th Jan. 1830.
Sir;-As solicitor to the estate of Mr. Rowland Stephenson,
a bankrupt, I am directed by the commissioners under the
commission issued against him, to transmit to you their
certificate of the issuing of such commission; and that Mr.
Rowland Stephenson has not paid his creditors, although
twelve calendar months have elapsed since the issuing of the
said commission, and that the same has not been superseded.
I have the honour to be, &e. J. BOURDILLoN.
To the Speaker of the House of Commons.
Then the certificate was read; and is as follows;
To the Right Hon. the Speaker, &c. &e.
At the Court of Commissioners of Bankrupts, in Basinghall
Street, London, the 19th day of Jan. 1830.
We whose names are hereunto subscribed, being the major
part of the commissioners named and authorised in and
by a commission of bankrupt awarded and issued against
Lombard Street, in the city of London, bankers and
copartners, do hereby certify, that a commission of bank-
rupt under the Great Seal of the United Kingdom of Great
Britain and Ireland, grounded upon statute made and
now in force concerning bankrupts, bearing date at West-
minster the thirty-first day of December, one thousand
eight hundred and twenty-eight, hath been awarded and
issued against the said ROWLAND STEPHENSON, together
TON, and JOSEPH PETTY TOULMIN, directed to us, and
also to John Beames and Henry John Shepherd, esqs., as
commissioners, to execute the same; and that the said
ROWLAND STEPHENSON, (together with the said War.
M. O'CONNELL took the Oath (at the left side of the
table), and then shook hands with the Speaker. He
afterwards seated himself in Mr. Hume's place and
shook hands, and entered into conversation with sir F.
Burdett. Very few members were present at the time.
The other members took the oaths and their seat, but
they were t the right side of the table, the usual

57 Clergy, Churches, &-c. [FEB. 4. ]

PETTY TOULMIN), was found and declared a bankrupt
under the same:
And we further certify that, although twelve calendar months
have expired since the issuing of the said commission, the
same hath not been superseded, nor have the creditors of
the said ROWLAND STEPHENSON, or of him and his said
partners, who have proved their debts under the said
commission been paid or satisfied to the full amount of
their debts under the said commission, according to the
provisions in that behalf of an Act of Parliament made
and passed in the fifty-second year of the reign of his late
majesty King George the Third, intituled, "An Act to
suspend and finally vacate the seats of members of the
House of Commons who shall become bankrupts, and who
shall not pay their debts in full within a limited time."
H. HASKER, Clerk to Mr. Jas. G. F. HAAPSON,
Bourdillon, Solicitor, Bread J. B. hACAULAY
Street, Cheapside.
MR. PLANTA then moved, that the Act 52 Geo. 3, e. 144, to
suspend and finally vacate the seats of members of the
House of Commons who shall become bankrupts, and who
shall not pay their debts in full within a limited time,
might be read. The same having been read; it was or-
dered, that Mr. Speaker do issue his warrant to the clerk
of the Crown, to make out a new Writ for the electing of
a burgess to serve in this present parliament for the borough
of Leominster, in the room of Rowland Stephenson, esq.,
whose seat has become vacant pursuant to the provisions of
the said act.
New writs were ordered for WATrnFOnD COUNTY in the
room of Henry Villiers Stuart, esq., Chiltern Hundreds:
for HARWICH, in the room of right hon. John Charles
Cherries, President of the Board of Trade: for WEsT-Loos,
in the room of Charles Buller, esq., Chiltern Hundreds:
for MEATH, in the room of Earl of Bective, now marquis
of Headfort.
MR. DAYENPORT gave notice that on the 16th inst. he
should renew his motion relative to the state of the coun-
try, if forty members were present.

Mr. Hume (in continuation of returns or-
dered last session) moved an Address for
Copies or Abstracts of the Returns made
to his Majesty in council by each bishop in
England and Wales on 25th March 1827
or 1828, as directed by the twenty-third
section of 57 Geo. 3, c. 99 :-Return of
the number of parish churches and chapels,
and chapels of ease, of the church of Eng-
land, in each parish, and the total in Eng-
land and Wales:-Abstract of the num-
ber of resident and licensed curates in
England and Wales, with the amount of
the salaries of curacies, according to the
diocesan returns for the years 1827 and
1828 :-Of the number of places of wor-
ship, not of the church of England, in each
parish ; distinguishing, as far as possible,
of what sect or persuasion, and the total
number of each sect in England and
,Mr. William Smith said, there was no
proper officer to whom an order for such a
return could be directed. If the returns
could be had without expense to private

Ecclesiastical Courts. 58

Parties, he thought it highly desirable that
they should be obtained; but he confessed
he did not exactly see how they could
be got at.
Mr. Hume saw no such difficulty.
Every bishop was aware of the number in
his own diocese ; and, no doubt, the Home
Secretary would know to whom to send
the order so as to ensure obedience to it.
Mr. Secretary Peel said, it might be per-
fectly practicable to supply part of the in-
formation which the honourable member
sought; but as to the number of persons
attending, he really did not see whose busi-
ness it could be to make returns upon that
subject; certainly there were no official
means of arriving at the information. As
far as the motion could be, it should be
complied with.-Motion agreed to.

theroe (in continuation of orders for
accounts presented last session) moved
addresses for returns from all Courts, and
other authorities in England and Wales,
empowered to grant probate of wills and
letters of administration, stating the date
of the earliest wills in their respective re-
gistries, the period at which there com-
mences a regular series of original wills
and recorded copies of administration,
bonds and inventories of act, books of
probates and administrations, and of in-
dexes to the said records :-Together with
a statement of any occasional chasms, that
may occur in, and an accurate detail of the
state and condition of, the said records:-
Of the number of wills proved, and letters
of administration granted, in the several
jurisdictions respectively so empowered,
in the years 1826, 1827, and 1828; and
in cases where no wills have been proved,
nor letters of administration granted, in
any jurisdiction within the aforementioned
period, the date of the last will proved, or
letters of administration granted, to be
stated:-Of the amount of fees, profits and
emoluments of every description, which
have been received by the judge, record-
keeper, auditor of accounts, all deputies
and assistant clerks, and all other persons
in the Ecclesiastical and Manorial Courts
in England (except the Prerogative Court
of Canterbury), from 1825 to 1828, both
inclusive :-And of the fees, profits, and
emoluments of the registrars, deputy re-
gistrars, and proctors, on taking out pro-
bates and administrations, in the Eccle-
siastical and Manorial Courts in England

59 Address on the

(except the Prerogative Court of Canter-
bury); stating the different charges and
fees in detail.-He observed that the
greater part of the returns he had reason
to believe were in a state of forwardness,
so that they might soon be presented.-
Motion agreed to.

The Speaker then read a copy of the
Lords Commissioners Speech.
The Earl of Darlington rose to move an
Address. Having just heard, in common
with the other members of this honourable
House, his Majesty's most gracious Speech,
it becomes my duty to move an Address
thereon, and to advert to the topics which
that Speech embraces. Before, however, I
enter on these topics in detail, and in the
order in which they are presented to me,
I will, as concisely as I can, explain the
reason which has urged me to undertake
that duty, and to place me in a situation
as novel to myself as it may be deemed
peculiar by many who now hear me, inas-
much as I appear, after being a member
of the House for seventeen years, this
night, for the first time, at this side of it,
and during that period having taken very
little share in the debates. [Spokefrom
behind the ministerial bench.] I feel it
due to my character as an individual, and
to the responsibility which I undertook as
a member of parliament, to give my rea-
sons for undertaking a task which might
be so much better performed in other
hands; and I am certain I shall meet the
indulgence of the House, as I have hitherto
but seldom trespassed on its notice since
I entered parliament. After the com-
mencement of the war, and after the coun-
try had been distractedby two parties called
Whig and Tory ; when I found that the one
was urging on the war with as much vio-
lence as the other used in trying to repress
and end it, and having been educated with
a regard for liberal principles, and consi-
dering that those principles were best illus-
trated by the conduct of the Whigs, I
joined that side of the House. I found,
however, that the progress of time made
great changes both in men and measures;
and many of the topics which had been
urged without notice by the Opposition
were at last treated with attention by the
Ministerial benches, and that many of the
measures for which the Whigs had long
contended began to be adopted by the
other side of the House, and were carried

into execution by the government [hear,
hear]. Though it has seldom been my
lot to mark the proceedings of this House
by other than a silent vote, considering
that every topic of interest was taken up
by persons better qualified to do them and
the country justice than I was, still I have
to assure you, Sir, that I was not a mere
passive spectator, but that I paid a due re-
gard to the progress of events, and to the
circumstances which peculiarly marked the
character of this House. I saw a change
gradually approaching. I felt that the
course of events brought with it increased
moderation and liberality; and I looked
forward to the day when I might see
accomplished that which I now see,-
namely, the time when government would
be entitled to demand the support of an
independent member of parliament, and
when it would be no reflection on his prin-
ciples to extend that support. I say, Sir,
that day has arrived when we are en-
titled to declare that the government of
the country is one worthy of the confidence
of the Sovereign and of the affections
of the people. [hear, hear 1 repeat,
Sir, that the administration is one in
which every true friend of the country
may rejoice; and when I look at its
constitution, I find my hopes are esta-
blished on just and reasonable grounds;
-when I see at its head a man who,
like the noble duke, is as distinguished
for judgment and decision in the cabinet
as he was for skill and triumph in the field
-when I look on the bench below me and
see my right hon. friend, the Secretary of
State for the Home Department (Mr. Peel),
and consider all the public services he has
rendered, and the measures which he
brought forward in the course of last
session for the good of the country-
when I look at these men and at their
colleagues-when I see how honourably
and efficiently the cabinet is on every
side composed, I say, Sir, that I have
reason to indulge a confidence; and 1 say,
considering all the circumstances of the
country, in a time of distress like the pre-
sent, I am justified in what I do, and that
it is every man's duty to rally round the
Throne and give to such a government
the warmest aid and support. [hear] I
now look upon the distinction of Whig
and Tory as empty names, and, equally
dreading the violence of both, 1 can with
difficulty say which party I would wish to
see predominant.-The government of the

King's Speech'. 60


King's Speech. 62

present day have shown that, in effect,
the sounds of Whig and Tory are synony-
mous; and we see in them an administra-
tion without a party, or rather a Tory
administration acting upon Whig princi-
ples. [loud cheers and some laughter] It
is true that there are still many honour-
able gentlemen attached to the minute
distinctions which are all that are left of
the mighty differences which once marked
the state of party in this House; and far
be it from me to find fault with those who
conscientiously retain those feelings.
For myself, I declare that I now act on
the same principles which always governed
my parliamentary conduct; and, though
I have hitherto confined myself almost to
a silent vote, I solemnly declare I never
had any other object in view than that of
the general good of the country [hear]-
and I feel myself entitled to support a
government acting on that opinion, no
matter of what set of men it may
be composed, convinced that the coun-
try is to be served by measures not by
men. [cheers]--It is, therefore, unne-
cessary for me to say that I have not
been induced to come forward by any
attraction which prevailed in a particular
cabinet, but I support the administration
in which I find a coincidence with those
sentiments on which I have hitherto acted,
and because I confide in it, and in a prime
minister, who combines promptitude, judg-
ment, and decision equal, if not superior,
to any other who has ever been intrusted
with power in this kingdom. [hear]-Hav-
ing now made to the House a preliminary
statement, which I consider equally due
to it and to myself, I will shortly touch on
the different topics which are submitted
to us in the Speech, and which will be
embraced in the Address. His Majesty
begins by justly expressing his satisfaction
that the war between Russia and the
Porte has been brought to a conclusion,
and then proceeds to announce that a
plan has been agreed upon for the final
settlement of the affairs of Greece. What
this plan may be I shall not, at present,
inquire-because I am of opinion that it
would be not only impolitic but unneces-
sary to press for a disclosure of what has
been promised at an early period. I shall,
therefore, go no farther than to hope that
the House will join with me in congratu-
lating his Majesty and the country on the
termination of hostilities between Russia
and the Porte. The House will more

readilyjoin in this congratulation when they
recollect how very difficult it is to extin-
guish the flame of war when it is once
lighted, as well as the impossibility there
is of being enabled to ascertain how far
war may extend. I am extremely sorry
that it has not been in his Majesty's power
to give us information of a similar kind
with respect to Portugal, for it would
appear as if all hope of reconciliation
between Don Pedro and Don Miguel were
at an end. I must, at the same time,
express my entire approval of the line of
conduct which has been pursued by his
Majesty's government, and in this I trust
the House will unanimously join; for if
this country were to have asserted the
right of Donna Maria, we should have
run the risk of embroiling ourselves in
war and with foreign countries-a risk
which, under all the circumstances, would
have been by no means justifiable on our
parts. We are, no doubt, bound to main-
tain our ancient alliance with the kingdom
of Portugal, yet we cannot be by any
means bound to support any one or other
of the parties contending for its Crown,
nor can it be in any manner incumbent
upon us so to act. With regard to our
diplomatic relations, I must observe that
our commercial connections with Portugal
are so very numerous and important, great
injury must necessarily arise from their
being suspended; and, therefore, this is a
subject which calls imperatively, for im-
mediate consideration. [hear] The next
topic to which his Majesty points our
attention is that of economy and retrench-
ment which his Majesty informs us will
be put into execution, and a considerable
reduction effected in the public expenditure,
without impairing the efficiencyof our naval
or military establishments. This, I think, is
as much as the most rigid economist can
require or desire. The deficiency in the
revenue is no doubt much to be lamented,
yet I have every hope that it will not be
near so great as was apprehended by
some, and I cannot help feeling secure that
the country will be able still to support
efficient establishments; and at the same
time to maintain the public credit, whict
it is the duty of the government to support
inviolate. [hear] The next portion of the
Speech acquaints us with the attention
that has been bestowed upon the reforms
in our Courts of Law, with regard to
which his Majesty says, that "he has
directed that measures shall be submitted

61 Address on the

[ FEB. 4. ]

King's Speech. 64

for your deliberation, of which some are
calculated, in the opinion of his Majesty,
to facilitate and expedite' the course of
justice in different parts of the United
Kingdom; and others appear to be
necessary preliminaries to a revision of
the practice and proceedings of the
Superior. Courts." There can be but one
opinion on this head; it is a subject on
which I cannot be supposed to be well
informed, and I shall content myself with
saying that, whatever alterations have
been made, and whatever improvements
have been introduced into our different
institutions, for them the thanks of the
country are eminently due to the right
hon. Secretary for the Home Department.
The Speech then proceeds to another fact,
to which I shall very shortly refer-
namely, that the exports of British pro-
duce and manufactures were greater in the
year 1829 than at any former period.
This proves the advantage of a system of
free trade, and is a subject gratifying to
have brought before our eyes when dis-
tress is visible in the country. That great
distress prevails I candidly admit and
amongst all classes [hear]-and for it
various causes may be assigned, and
various opinions are entertained with
respect to its origin ; but whatever these
may be, 1 fear they are beyond our power,
and out of our control. However, it is a
happiness to know that the country retains
within herself the power of relief, and
always will have it, from that energy
which has rendered her remarkable above
all the nations of the world. Temporary
distress will recur in commercial countries,
but time will relieve it; and I am the
more inclined to this opinion with respect
to England, since she has all the power
of producing wealth-her ships, her ware-
houses, her superior machinery, still in
her possession; and her general resources
continue as great and unimpaired as ever. I
see no cause for despondency. The greater
part of our present distress has arisen, in
my opinion, from the mischief of over-
trading, which induced a production
greater than the greatest possible demand.
This, and an increased population in the
manufacturing districts, combined with
the use of machinery, are in my mind
sufficient to cause a distress greater even
than that which prevails at present. [hear]
-Although the improvement in our
export trade has been so great, still, with
regard to our home consumption, it is to

be regretted that there exists a great stag-
nation; the agricultural interest is also
distressed, and this may be one of the
causes, if not the chief one, of that stag-
nation. For as long as the price of
agricultural produce is low, the farmers,
our greatest and best consumers, will not
be able to purchase from the manufac-
turers. They have no interests that militate
the one against the other; and I will
always maintain that the interests and
the prosperity of agriculture and manu-
factures coincide and depend upon one
another.-I have now touched upon all
the topics in the Speech from the Throne,
and upon some, probably, at too great
length; butif I have committed any mistake,
or been guilty of any omission, the House
will, I trust, accept my inexperience as
an apology; and if, in the course of my
observations, any unguarded expression
may have dropped from me, they will, I
hope, attribute it to the same cause [hear]
-I hope I shall enjoy the good fortune
of having the House unanimous in sup-
port of the Address which I shall now
have the honour to propose.-The noble
lord then moved that an humble Address
be presented to his Majesty :-
To return to his Majesty our humble
thanks for the gracious Speech which his
Majesty has directed to be delivered by
the Lords Commissioners.-To assure his
Majesty, that we have heard with high
gratification that his Majesty receives from
all Foreign Powers the strongest assurances
of their desire to maintain and cultivate
the most friendly relations with this
Country; and that we participate in the
satisfaction expressed by his Majesty, that
the war between Russia and the Ottoman
Porte has been brought to a conclusion.
"To thank his Majesty for acquainting
us that his efforts to accomplish the main
objects of the Treaty of the 6th July 1827
have been unremitted; and to express to
his Majesty our acknowledgments for the
assurance that his Majesty, having re-
cently concerted with his Allies measures
for the pacification and final settlement of
Greece, trusts that he shall be enabled, at
an early period, to communicate to us the
particulars of this arrangement, with such
information as may explain the course
which his Majesty has pursued throughout
the progress of these important transac-
To assure his Majesty that we concur
with his Majesty in lamenting that he is

63 AddresR on the


69 Address on the [ FE:
unable to announce to us the prospect of
a reconciliation between the Princes of
the House of Braganza, and to thank his
Majesty for the intimation that, although
his Majesty has not yet deemed it expe-
dient to re-establish upon their ancient
footing his Majesty's diplomatic relations
with the Kingdom of Portugal, the numer-
ous embarrassments arising from the con-
tinued interruption of these relations
increase his Majesty's desire to effect the
termination of so serious an evil.
To return our acknowledgments to his
Majesty for having directed the estimates
for the current year to be laid before us,
and for the assurance that they have been
framed with every attention to economy,
and to express to his Majesty our high
gratification at learning that his Majesty
has been enabled to make a considerable
reduction in the amount of the Public
Expenditure, without impairing the effi-
ciency of our Naval or Military Establish-
To assure his Majesty, that we derive
sincere satisfaction from the information
that, although the National Income during
the last year has not attained the full
amount at which it had been estimated,
the diminution is not such as to cause any
doubt as to the future prosperity of the
"To acknowledge his Majesty's good-
ness in having of late earnestly directed
his attention to various important consi-
derations connected with improvements in
the general administration of the Law,
and in having commanded that measures
shall be submitted for our deliberation, of
which some are calculated, in the opinions
of his Majesty, to facilitate and expedite
the course of justice in different parts of
the United Kingdom, and others appear to
be necessary preliminaries to a revision of
the practice and proceedings of the
Superior Courts; and to assure his Ma-
jesty that we will justify the confidence
which his Majesty is pleased to repose in
us, by giving our best attention and as-
sistance to subjects of such deep and last-
ing interest to the well-being of his people.
To express to his Majesty our satis-
faction at learning that the Export in the
last year of British Produce and Manufac-
tures has exceeded that of any former
year-and our sincere participation in the
concern felt by his Majesty, that, notwith-
standing this indication of active com-
merce, distress should prevail among the

a. 4.) King's Speech, 66
agricultural and manufacturing classes in
some parts of the United Kingdom.
"Cordially to acknowledge his Ma-
jesty's goodness in assuring us that it
would be most gratifying to the paternal
feelings of his Majesty to be enabled to
propose for our consideration measures
calculated to remove the difficulties of any
portion of his subjects, and at the same
time compatible with the general and per-
manent interests of his People; and,
humbly participating with his Majesty in
a deep solicitude for those interests, to
express our concurrence in the necessity
of acting with extreme caution in reference
to this important subject.
To assure his Majesty that we will not
fail to assign due weight to the effect of
unfavourable seasons, and to the operation
of other causes which are beyond the reach
of Legislative control or remedy.
"That we are deeply sensible of the
paramount importance of maintaining in-
violate the Public Credit, and of thus
upholding the high character and the per-
manent welfare of the Country."

Mr. Ward.-I rise for the purpose of
seconding the motion of the noble lord.
Recollecting that many of the ablest and
best men whom this country ever claimed
as her sons have stood upon the spot
which I now occupy for the purpose of
recommending by their eloquence the va-
rious motions foraddresses from time to time
proposed, I must say, in my own excuse,
that it is the partiality of others, and not
any presumptionof mine, that has selected
me for this task. [hear]-Although those
who preceded me well discharged their
trust, yet I cannot admit that any one
amongst them was ever animated by a
warmer desire faithfully to discharge his
duty than I am ; nor am I deterred from
coming forward because the period at
which the part has been allotted to me is
one of difficulty and distress. [hear, hear]
This ought rather to stimulate every hon.
member to greater exertions; and the peo-
ple should feel and know that their re-
presentatives were at their posts, and were
determined to do all in their power for the
country's relief. We are required to make a
suitable acknowledgment for the gracious.
Speech on our assembling; and, with the
permission of the House, I will consider
some of the topics which that Speech
has brought under our consideration. The
first amongst these is peace. This is the


fifteenth year during which that blessing
has been continued to us ; but I fear that
there are so many gentlemen who recollect
the high prices and great profits attendant
upon the war, that there are many persons
who are not fully convinced of the value of
that unrivalled blessing-peace. But,
notwithstanding this, it is my warm hope,
and I will express my strongest wish, that
the noble duke now at the head of the
administration will maintain to the longest
moment in his power that peace. [hear,
hear] There was a time when a military
chief could issue from his camp a decla-
ration that the House of Braganza had
ceased to reign, or that a northern power
was no longer to exist. He possessed the
power to enforce his will, and he disre-
garded the ties, and set at nought the
rights, of nations. We now, however, live
in happier times; and it is pleasing to
know that even those countries lately
visited by military aggression still possess
their independence. I am confident that
all who were on the Finance Committee
are quite convinced that the government
are anxious to fix the expenditure for the
services of the country on the lowest pos-
sible scale; and it is agreeable to know
this at a time when there is a falling-off in
the revenue. I lament that, with respect
to our debt, there has not been a greater
reduction, for to that reduction, of in-
terest or otherwise, must the people mainly
look for a diminution of their burthens.
[hear, hear]-It is lamentable that those
who were once our enemies, and who may
be so again (though I sincerely hope not
for a long time to come,) that France and
America should have in this respect
gone so far before us. The Sinking-fund
of France is larger than that in this coun-
try, although their debt is not more than
one-fourth of ours. Americawill have no
debt in 1834; and if no exertions are
made to reduce our debt, I fear we may
be overtaken by a war when it may be
most inconvenient for us to be engaged in
one. [hear] The government must look
boldly and resolutely at our situation to
avert such an evil. The present is, how-
ever, a period favourable for this purpose,
and I have hopes that the chancellor of
the Exchequer will not allow it to pass
without some measure for the reduction of
the interest on our national debt. Nearly
a century ago a predecessor of mine, sir
John Barnard, pressed the chancellor of
the Exchequer of that day to do the re-

verse of what I now ask, in order that the
rate of interest on private transactions
might be increased; but now it is differ-
ent, as the government pays more than is
required in private concerns. The next
subject to which I shall allude is the dis-
tress that weighs upon our agricultural
and manufacturing classes. I hope I am
the last man who would seek to under-
value the real state of affairs, and I believe
that distress of an extraordinary character
does really exist. [hear] It is not for us to
content ourselves with the mere statement
of the fact, but it is our duty to see whe-
ther a remedy can be found. [loud cheers]
-If we cannot find any remedies of real
utility, let us not attempt to delude the
people by holding out to their imagination
projects which are impracticable. One
remedy proposed for agricultural distress
-namely, the repeal of the malt duty-
would, no doubt, be good for the pro-
ducers of barley, but it would be of no
service to those engaged in other pursuits.
The distress is, I know, attributed by
many to the change in the currency.
Many there are who overlook the dif-
ference between the change in the currency
generally, and the change produced by
parliamentary enactments. In 1819 a
great change was effected; it was neces-
sary that the country should have some
standard of value, and in effecting that
object the parliament was, in my opinion,
fully justified; if they did go a step too far,
still every allowance ought to be made
for those who had brought forward and
supported the measure. I had my own
share in it, and I am ready to bear my
part of the responsibility. In addition, it
should be recollected that there was at
that time a great falling-off in the pro-
duce of the mines. Austria had also
made a change in her currency, so like-
wise did Russia: and another great mis-
chief, in the eyes of those who wish the
currency put upon the old footing, is to
be charged to the philanthropy of this
honourable House; for, in consequence of
the vast numbers of forgeries, and the
penalties inflicted upon the offenders, the
one and two pound notes were with-
drawn. More gold then became requisite.
With respect to the distress of the agri-
cultural interests, I am of opinion that it
is chiefly and principally attributable not
to the change in the currency, but to two
successive bad harvests. Probably there
were a million quarters of corn deficient in

67 Address on the

King's Speech.

69 Address on the

each of the two last years, at least im-
portations to that extent were requisite.
Agricultural distress, too, differs from
commercial or any other that may prevail
in a nation, because in agricultural loss it
is not simply the impairing of property,
but its totaldestruction. Although, then,
I admit the existence of distress, yet there
is no one more sure than I am that it will
be relieved by natural causes. The elas.
ticity of our resources has been so often
proved, that there is no reason to despair
now more than when we came out trium-
phant from contests in which Europe was
league against us. If these views are
erroneous, I must expect the chastening
hand of correction; if not, Ihope the House
will be unanimous in voting the Address
which I have the honour to support.
The Speaker then read the Motion for
an Address.
Sir Edward Knatchbull.-If, Sir, on the
present occasion, I could permit myself to
be influenced by personal considerations,
I should willingly have adopted the course
pursued by me for several years, and suffer
the Address to pass without observation.
In applying myself to the subject it must
be obvious, and I confess it, that I labour
under extreme difficulty. It is a very short
time since I have been informed of the
topics it embraces, and therefore my diffi-
culty becomes the greater still, either
in the application of my argument, or in
the preparation of an amendment. It is
true I might have taken the course once
recommended by an hon. member in this
House; I might move the adjournment of
the debate until to-morrow, so as to have
time to form such an Address as I could
more willingly offer to your consideration.
But I do not think that such a course
would be in accordance with the wish or
the usage of the House, and I shall not
adopt it. I shall follow the Speech as well
as I can, and make such observations as
suggest themselves. But, before I move
the amendment with which I mean to con-
clude, Imust make one or two observations
upon what has fallen from the noble lord
and the hon. member opposite, the mover
and seconder of the Address. If the noble
Lord has found it necessary to apologize
for the part he has taken, I have no fault
to find with him; but, if an apology were
necessary, he has made it in the best way
possible, and I leave the government the
benefit of the explanation. I will also say

at once, that, if the Address were at all in
unison with the sentiments uttered by the
hon. members, very little difference of
opinion could exist between us. The
noble lord has said that the distress is
general, and the hon. gentleman has de-
cribed it as of an extraordinary character.
But does the Speech say this ? Does even
the Address contain a syllable of this?
No, they only state that it exists in some
places; where then is there an expression
of this extraordinary character and this
generality ? With respect to the different
topics of the Address, it commences by
announcing that the war between Russia
and Turkey is concluded, and calls upon
us to congratulate his Majesty on the
event. I am ready to do so, and the
more ready because the Speech says not a
word as to the mode or the manner in
which that conclusion was effected. The
next point is the pacification of Greece.
On that I shall say nothing more than
that I entertain hopes similar to those of
the hon. gentleman opposite, that every
thing has been done for the best interests
of the country, and if the settlement be
attended with a lessening of expense to the
country, I shall most heartily rejoice. 1
lament the situation in which we are placed
as respects Portugal; and why Don Mi-
guel, who is in possession of the throne,
has not been acknowledged as he ought to
be, and as he will be, appears most inex-
plicable. I know that observations have
been made in this House against the policy
of doing so, but that Don Miguel will be
acknowledged I have not the slightest
doubt. The next topic is, that the esti-
mates will be prepared with the strictest
view to economy, and I am very willing to
believe this. Then follows the point re-
lative to the reform of our courts of law;
and in all that has been said on this
subject I fully agree. I am not presump-
tuous enough to suppose that I could
render any service, but on this subject
shall dismiss every partial and every poli-
tical consideration, and support improve-
ment in this as in every other great
question, let the man who proposes it be
who he may. No matter into whose hands
the power may fall, only let them ad-
minister matters faithfully, honourably,
and economically, and the government
shall have my support. The next point,
and one which has been dwelt upon, is the
great increase in our exports, but I should
have much wished to hear that this was a

Zing')s Speech~. 10

[ FEB. 4.

71 Address on the

good index of our prosperity. May not
this increase have arisen from what has
been complained of-namely, overtrading?
I only wish that it would enable the chan-
cellor of the Exchequer to come down, and
take off part of our burthens; then, indeed,
I could believe it was beneficial. The
next topic is that of the distress, and upon
this point I shall examine the Speech,
which I have a right to assume to be the
Speech of the ministers, and for which
they must be responsible.
Mr. Ward.-No, no.
Sir E. Knatchbull.-Do I hear my hon.
friend aright? Does my hon. friend mean
to controvert a point which has been
settled for now more than a century past,
that his Majesty's Speech should be con-
sidered as that of his ministers?
Mr. Ward.-I had no such intention:
I misunderstood my hon. friend. I sup-
posed that my hon. friend intended to
consider my speech as that of ministers.
Now ministers were not at all responsible
for what I may have said. [a laugh]
Sir E. Knatchbull.-All I say, and all I
want the attention of the House to, is the
simple fact, that the Speech says, in plain
terms, that distress exists in some"
places. If I were in want of any expla-
nation I need only refer to the speeches of
the mover and seconder of the Address.
They say that the distress is general and
extraordinary. That is the sole point of
difference; and since I heard the Speech
I have marvelled how such language could
have found its way into the Speech, or
how they could make statements so very
different from the Address proposed. If
ministers said, they would do every thing
that wisdom and sagacity and energy
could suggest for the relief of the people,
then I should agree with them; it would
have been unnecessary for me to propose
any amendment. If I am asked what evi-
dence have I that distress exists, I will
say that I see it and feel it in my own part
of the country; and if I am asked for
more, I will put the question to every hon.
member in the House, and he will say the
same of the district which he represents. I
know that the distress is not so great in some
places as in others, but the question is-is it
not universal? We are asked on this impor-
tant day-perhaps the most important we
have ever witnessed-to approach his Ma-
jesty with a declaration containing some-
thing very like falsehood [hear]. I will not
for a moment suppose, or have it imagined,

that I can think the mover or seconder in-
fluenced by any motive or feeling of such a
description. But I ask-is the distress
general or not ? I appeal again to every
authority, and I implore gentlemen to
consider the vote they are asked to come
to this night. I shall avoid, on the present
occasion, saying anything as to the remedy.
I shall not say a word upon the Malt Tax,
because I know a difference of opinion
exists; nor shall I allude to the currency
for the same reason: they will be discussed
hereafter. I shall state my opinion
honestly, and all 1 ask is, that the House
will respect and express the simple, naked
truth [hear]-That which is wrong I
am ready to correct, but I am cautious
lest, in endeavouring to amend, I may
suddenly and unwillingly find myself
linked to those whose object is, to pull
down and destroy. I must apologize
for the length of time 1 have occupied,
and beg leave to propose an amendment
to be made to the question, by inserting,
after the words any former year the
words, But that we lament the existence
of that distress which his Majesty informs
us prevails in some places:-We are, how-
ever, in the faithful discharge of our duty,
constrained to: declare to his Majesty our
opinion that this distress is not confined,
as his Majesty has been advised, to some
particular places, but that it is general
among all the productive interests of the
country, which are severely suffering from
its pressure :-We beg to assure his Ma-
jesty, that we will adopt the caution his
Majesty has recommended, in the consi-
deration of such measures as may be
proposed to us, and that our earnest
endeavours shall be directed to relieve the
country from its present difficulties."
The Marquis of Blandford seconded the
amendment. He would not detain the
House long; and he thought it would be
well if hon. Members in their speeches
bore in mind what Jefferson said of
Washington and Franklin, namely, that
they never spoke longer at a time than
ten minutes, and yet by their counsels

"I served with General Washington in the
Legislature of Virginia, before the Revolution,
and during it with Dr. Franklin in Congress.
I never heard either of them speak ten minutes
at a time, nor to any but main points, which
was to decide the question. They laid their
shoulders to the great point, knowing that the
little ones would follow ofthemselves."-Jeffer-
son's Memoirs and Correspondence, vol. i., p. 50.


King's Speech.

73 Address on the

they greatly benefitted their country. He
seized this early opportunity of declaring
in his place, as one of the representatives
of the people, his firm conviction that the
circumstances of the country were such
that it was impossible to return to a sound
and healthy state, until such a diminution
of taxes should take place as would enable
the productive industry of the country to
contend with low prices. Most decided,
effective, and immediate measures must be
resorted to. No petty half measures would
restore the country to its former state of
existence; no palliatives would now restore
us- -he would not say to a state of prospe-
rity,but-to a state of healthful existence;
the most vigorous measures were neces-
sary for the accomplishment of this great
purpose. It could not be done by the
present House of Commons, in which the
people had little confidence, and for which
they were beginning to entertain less re-
spect. The seeds of dissatisfaction, dis-
content, and disgust, had been sown ; and
it would be in vain to attempt to check
their growth otherwise than by the speedy
and temperate application of the first and
genuine principles of the Constitution.
He seconded the motion of his hon. friend
the member for Kent; and after his amend-
ment should have been disposed of, he had
one of his own to propose. [hear and a
Sir John Brydges.-He did not rise to
detain the House by discussing in detail
the various topics that had been intro-
duced into the speech of the noble Lord
who moved the Address, and of the hon.
member who seconded it. He concurred
in what had fallen from them, and he
approved of the Address. At that time,
however, he held it to be insufficient to
concur in silence. The parliament was
now assembled at a crisis when unex-
ampled distress pervaded every interest of-
the country, whether it was agricultural,
commercial, or trading, and every nerve
must be strained to alleviate it. However
insignificant his powers might be, his con-
stituents had intrusted him with a seat in
the great council of the nation, to uphold
their rights, and to maintain the dearest
interests of the country; and by the bles-
sing of God he would do his best not to
disappoint them. If this trust had not
been confided to him, it would have been
conferred on some one else, more able,
perhaps, but, he was confident, not more
willing, to do his duty by them, He

should not do so, if he' did not take that
opportunity, with great deference, to en-
deavour to impress, however feebly, upon
the assembly, the imperative necessity
that at that moment existed for every
man to do his duty-to employ his talents
and his time, in conjunction with his
fellow-representatives, to rescue the coun-
try from the perils that surrounded it-to
sink every selfish consideration, and unit-
edly to put their shoulders to the wheel-
to lay aside all party feeling, and to know
no other interest than the public good.
The country called upon them, and looked
up to them for relief. Great as were our
difficulties, appalling as was our debt, let
it not be said we cannot overcome them.
He pitied the pusillanimity that prompted
such a feeling; it was dastardly. True
to itself and united, what could not Eng-
land accomplish? If we did our duty by
our constituents, they would do theirs by
us. They had already done so, and were
prepared to do so again, provided they
saw that their representatives were in ear-
nest to save their country. In a word,
therefore, let them, in the present Ses-
sion, be faithfully responsive to the urgent
calls of a high-minded, high-principled,
and generous people, who anxiously look-
ed up to them to relieve their distress;-
to them, whose efforts, he was sure, would
be sanctioned, encouraged, and promoted
by those ministers, to whose guidance his
Majesty had committed the reins of go-
Mr. Western, was most astonished at
that part of the Speech which described
the distress to exist in some parts of the
country only, and to be, in fact, merely
partial and temporary. The noble duke
and his Majesty's ministers must be very
much misinformed with respect to the
state of the country, and totally ignorant
of the fact, that the people of every part
of the country were placed in a condition
such as they had never known before.
The whole of thejproductive classes of the
community, labourers as well as manufac-
turers, were now enduring a state of
severe suffering and misery such as they
had never experienced before, at any period
of our history. It had been said the dis-
tress was partial and temporary. He de-
nied that it could be calledso. The people
were engaged in a continuity of struggles,
which they had supported with firmness
for the last fourteen years; but their
strength was now nearly exhausted, and

King's Speech.

[ FEr 4. ]

75 Address on the

their patience began to desert them. He
would ask, if there was a member in the
House who could deny the existence of
this distress? And how, he would ask
further, had it been produced ? Why, by
a succession of the most mischievous mea-
sures that ever were devised for the de-
struction of a nation. Notwithstanding
the waste and extravagance of an impo-
litic war, to which he had during the
whole of his life been opposed, the coun-
try was left at its close in a state of unex-
ampled power and prosperity, and able to
discharge its obligations, and with a peo-
ple contented and flourishing. From that
moment, however, the government had,
by a system of the most vicious inter-
ference, destroyed the sources of their
advantages, and had adopted measures
which operated to double the taxes and all
obligations. Against the evils created by
this interference they had struggled on;
but, he repeated, they were now ex-
hausted, and unless a change of measures
took place, they must look forward to one
of the most terrible and frightful convul-
sions this country had ever sustained.
The eyes of every class of the community
were fixed on the government; and yet
his majesty's ministers, with an indiffer-
ence or an ignorance which was scarcely
credible, had placed their distresses, as it
were, in a parenthesis; [laugh and hear,
hear] and passed them over with a
levity which was disgusting, and which,
he was sure, must prove galling to the
feelings of the sufferers. He was willing
to support the Amendment-not because it
came up to his views, for, in his opinion,
it but very feebly expressed the sentiments
which ought to animate that House on
such a subject-but he was willing to
mark, in any manner, his disapprobation of,
and dissent from, the terms of the Speech.
If he were to frame an Address, it should
be to pledge the House to appoint a
committee to inquire into the causes of
the distress; [hear, hear, hear] and to
endeavour to ascertain how it was that a
people, possessed of, as a noble mover of
the Address had observed, all the ele-
ments of power, should, in the course of a
few years have become so wretched, crip-
pled, and exhausted. They still had the
power, they still possessed the means of
regeneration; they had spirit, energy, en-
terprise, every thing which could conduce
to prosperity, were it not for heavy tax-
ption, and that surreptitious enhancement

of the currency which pressed on the
industrious classes, and wrung from the
sweat of the brows more than twice the
amount which they had formerly been
compelled to pay. He begged the House,
however, to recollect that the people were
now exhausted; and, worse than all, that
their feelings, from the severe pressure of
distress, were undergoing a most danger-
ous change. Their respect for authority
was changing fast for contempt. No
man could shut his eyes to the nature and
effect of the expressions which were now
heard from the body of the people. No
man could listen to the exclamations of
distress which were heard from every
part of the country, without lamenting the
kind of milk-and-water language in which
his Majesty had been advised to advert to
that distress; although the language of
the amendment did not come up to his
idea of the sentiments which ought to
inspire the members of that House on
such a subject, and which they ought to
express, yet, for the reasons he had stated,
he was willing to give it his support.
Mr. Protheroe said, he addressed the
House, at that early stage of the debate,
with unfeigned diffidence of his power to
do justice to the subject. During the
three sessions that he had enjoyed the
honour to occupy a seat in the House, he
had, on all occasions, preferred trusting
to the language of others for the develop-
ment of those measures, in the propriety
of which he was willing to concur; but
he thought the time was now arrived when
the exertions of honesty and good inten-
tion were more requisite than the display
of the greatest oratorical powers, and with
that impression he ventured rrost humbly
to offer himself thus early to their notice.
That House had long been the subject of
attack from men of a certain class and
holding particular opinions; but it was
now obvious that the opinions respecting
its integrity and capacity were not con-
fined to these persons, but that attacks
the most violent, and urged in language
the most vehement, were to be heard
from quarters in which they had never
before heard any thing but praise and ap-
probation; from quarters which had been
in the habit of lauding, indiscriminately,
every act of authority and power, no mat-
ter in whose hands that power was re-
posed. The hollow murmur of discontent
now approached the House from all quar-
ters ; and none had so accurately describe


King's Speech.

77 Address on the

ed the dreadful state of the country as
the hon. member for Essex (Mr. Western).
But so remarkable were the changes of
opinions, that it was not long since he
had read in a periodical publication re-
markable for its devotion to power, a
series of attacks on the members of that
House, in which they were declared not
only destitute of wisdom, but of every de-
gree of firmness, integrity, or intelligence
which would be required for the conduct
of public affairs. He did not, in advert-
ing to the nature of this language, intend
to advise his Majesty's Attorney-general,
whom he saw in his place, to prosecute the
author or the editor of this publication,
for using language calculated to bring the
House and the government into contempt,
but he wished to draw from it the conclu-
sion, that the complaints against its con-
stitution extended now to a very different
class of society ; that it had excited the
attention and the condemnation of men
who formerly regarded it with indifference
or approbation, and that those who were
interested in preserving the respect of the
people should, by a timely and temperate
reform, show their sense of the propriety
of the remonstrances of those state physi-
cians. [hear] Adverting to thelanguage
of the Address, he must express his con-
viction that it was a deliberate insult to
the people. Those who advised it might
have ascertained, with the slightest in-
quiry, if they were ignorant of the fact,
that the distress was general, and he
might add, universal; and he was satisfied
that the remedy for that distress was not
to be obtained from the exertions of any
party within or without the walls of the
House. The sentiments he uttered did
not proceed from the spirit of party. He
did not think that the country looked for
its advocates amongst men of party feel-
ing. It desired rather the exertion of
humble abilities, fairly and honestly di-
rected, than the aid of brilliant talents,
tainted by feelings of party or ambition.
He had drawn up the outline of an Amend-
ment, which he had intended to submit
to their consideration. It stated, in plain
language, the nature of the distress, and
pointed out the course which, in his hum-
ble opinion, ought to be adopted in the
inquiries with respect to the remedy. He
was confident, indeed, that the Speech
did not, under the present circumstances,
realize the expectations of the people;
and the noble lord, whose duty it was to

move the Address, must have felt himself
as much crippled in his language, by its
terms, as the dress in which custom re-
quired he should appear on such occasions
must constrain the natural movements of
his body.* In his opinion, the Address
ought to have alluded to the melan-
choly fact, that the rent of the farmer
was now paid solely out of his capital,
and that trade of every kind, except that
in money, was carried on without the
slightest profit to the adventurer. He
had taken leave to defend himself from
the imputation of having been guilty of
any act of taciturnity or uncourteousness
in not communicating his intention to
those members with whom he had been
in the habit of acting during the time he
occupied a seat in that House. The
truth was, that there prevailed such a
dissimilarity of opinions on all great poli-
tical questions on that side of the House,
that he scarcely knew to whom he should
address himself. So many different par-
ties were they divided into, that the House
seemed to be more like a nursery of young
statesmen than a collection of established
politicians ; and it was a matter of serious
question whether the greater portion of
the members on that (the Opposition) side
of the House could be considered minis-
terial men or oppositionists. Delicacy,
therefore, with regard to some, and igno-
rance with respect to the opinions of
others, had forced him to rise thus early,
and offer to the attention of the House an
amendment, which, although it might be
considered rather long, contained nothing
but a plain statement of well-known facts,
He could not move it, he was aware, till
the amendment already proposed was dis-
posed of; but perhaps the House would
pardon him if he concluded his speech
with reading it. [hear] The hon. mem-
ber then read the following Amendment.
That an humble Address be presented
to his Majesty, to express to his Majesty
the thanks of this House for his Majesty's
most gracious Speech; and respectfully to
inform his Majesty, that being assembled
with the deepest impression of the extraor-
dinary duties imposed on us by the unex-
ampled difficulties and dangers of the
country, we will direct our instant and
earnest attention to those measures best
The noble Lord was dressed in his mili-
tary uniform; the custom being usuallyobserved
for the appointed mover and seconder of thq
Address to appear in full court dresses,

[FEB. 4.]

Einy's Speech. 78

79 Address on the

calculated to maintain the dignity and
stability of his Majesty's Throne, and to
restore this nation to its ancient prosperity
and happiness. To assure his Majesty of
our undiminished attachment to his sacred
person, and of our grateful conviction of
his paternal feelings for the sufferings of
his subjects ; relying upon which, we con-
sider it our first duty to lay before his
Majesty a correct representation of the
actual state of the country, and of all its
leading interests, not concealing those
wrongs and grievances which, with the
assistance of a faithful parliament, his
Majesty will delight to redress.
"To represent to his Majesty, that the
measures recommended by his ministers,
and adopted by parliament, have failed to
restore the country, or to mitigate the
calamities under which it is-sinking.
"That the tendency of the present
political, financial, and ecclesiastical sys-
tems, is to accumulate, in few hands,
enormous masses of property, leaving the
middle classes struggling to support a pre-
carious credit, and the lower, in a degrad-
ing dependence for daily food.
That neither the landowner nor the
farmer has been enriched by the Corn
Laws, while the bread of the poor is made
dear, and the labourer is stinted in his hire.
That the merchant, the shipowner, the
manufacturer, the tradesman, are proceed-
ing in hopeless efforts of industry, without
remuneration, notwithstanding the extra-
ordinary inventions of British science and
ingenuity, and the increasing demands of
extensive countries newly-opened to our
"That the peasantry and operative
mechanics, with wages or pay barely ade-
quate to the support of life, are hastening
to a state of universal pauperism, holding
out temptations to the disregard and breach
of laws that no longer afford security to
"That the pleasures of the rich are pur-
chased by the demoralization of the poor,
under the administration of Game-laws,
originating in ages of feudal oppression,
and pertinaciously adhered to and increased
in severity by selfish legislation, whereby
the prisons of the country are filled for
offences not associated in the feelings of
the people with moral guilt or delinquency.
That by an ill-proportioned system of
duties, having no reference but to the sup-
ply of a needy Exchequer, the poorer
classes are deprived of the wholesome and

nutritious drink of their forefathers, and
are driven to the use of ardent spirits, alike
destructive to their health and morals.
"That the nation is bowed down by a
weight of taxation, which has been immo-
derately increased by laws affecting a
change in the currency, made without a
due consideration of the situation of the
country, so that it is utterly unable to
support the burthen.
"That it is impossible for the people to
view, without disgust,the mockery of their
distress, by a wasteful, blundering, and
jobbing expenditure of the public money,
in the erection of palaces and public build-
ings in the metropolis, alike devoid of taste
and utility.
That the people have a right to com-
plain of the indecent and unjust continu-
ance in undiminished amount, of various
grants, pensions, salaries, and allowances
which had been fixed or raised during the
suspension of cash payments, upon the
express plea andjustification'of the depre-
ciation in value of money.
That we receive with grateful satisfac-
tion, his Majesty's assurance, that the
reformation of the administration of the
laws has occupied his Majesty's attentive
consideration; and that we will devote our
earnest attention to the communications
his Majesty may direct to be made on these
That the tithe system (at all times an
obnoxious and unpopular mode of providing
for the clergy) is at this season of agricul-
tural distress peculiarly galling in its opera-
tion, while the unequal distribution of the
revenues of the church of England and
Ireland, and the inadequate provision for
those who perform its most active duties,
are viewed with serious concern by the
friends of the establishment, and afford
just cause of scandal to its enemies.
That the colonial interests of the
country are plunged in a state of equal
depression and suffering, the prices ob-
tained for the produce of our colonies
affording in general no profit in return for
the capital, the labour, and the anxiety
attending its cultivation.
In acknowledging to his Majesty our
conviction, that a state of national suffer-
ing and abuses so great and so general,
after a long period of profound peace, and
amidst so many elements of political pros-
perity, cannot have been produced without
fundamental errors in legislation and

[ CO1MMON's, I

Kiing's Speech. 80

81 Address on the

Finally, to assure his Majesty that,
although we cannot but feel how uncertain
must be all dependence upon the acts of a
Legislature, which does not and cannot as
now constituted adequately represent the
talents, the sentiments, and the wishes of
the country, yet we will not fail, while
maintaining the integrity of our admired
Constitution, to consult in all our delibe-
rations the spirit of an enlightened age,
and the just petitions of the people, by
decided retrenchment of expense, large
reduction of taxation, and by a needful
reform, commencing with our own House."
Mr. Ald. Waithman said, he had never
been better pleased with any speech than
with that of the hon. member who had just
sat down. He trusted that the hon.
baronet who moved the first amendment
would withdraw it in favour of that just
proposed, which seemed more fully to
express what he trusted was the sense of
the House, because it was much nearer
the truth. Feeling so strongly as he did
on the present occasion, he would give his
hearty concuYrence to any and every
amendment which had for its object an
inquiry into the existing distress. He
must confess that, looking to the extreme
distress of the country, he expected more
from the royal Speech on the present
occasion than he usually did on similar
ones; but looking at the distress of the
country, knowing that it was not confined
to any particular place, he was surprised
at the paragraph in the King's Speech.
The paragraph about economy might be
taken from every King's Speech during
the last four years. The year 1826 was
one of great calamity, so was the following
year, yet we were always assured that a
system of the greatest economy would be
observed. As to the noble duke at the head
of the government, he knew of no indivi-
dual in whom he could sooner place con-
fidence; but, after past experience, he felt it
impossible to place confidence in any man.
In the year 1817 we were assured of a
plan of strict economy, afterwards our
army was reduced, and in the next year an
increase took place. After this, could the
House place confidence in what was stated
by ministers? He knew from experience
that it was impossible for a member of that
House to place confidence in any ministers
without its interfering with the strict per-
formance of his duty. The royal Speech
stated, that our exports had increased.
The same thing was stated last year, and

on many former years. It was evident
that the official value of our exports had
latterly increased, but it was equally evi-
dent that there was no profitable return
for them; otherwise there would be larger
imports. The fact was, the "real" value
of our exports had decreased, as he had
shown last year*; and as he would make
still more clear to every man in the House
and out of it, on a future evening. The
public distress had been augmenting from
year to year, until it had reached a
point where it was past further endurance.
Would any man stand up in his place and
declare on his honour that the distress was
confined merely to particular parts of the
country ? He was surprised that the hon.
seconder of the Address had not made
more particular allusion to the great body
of traders in the city of London. The
distress of that class was extreme. Their
stocks had in general suffered a depre-
ciation of 40 per cent. Their interests
were not so fully represented in that House
as those of other classes. The fact was,
that the distress was not confined to any
particular class, the great body of the
people were equally distressed. The
agriculturists, undoubtedly, formed a great
and important branch; but that portion of
the community was not the only one that
was now suffering. The distress equally
affected the mercantile and manufac-
turing classes. He was much surprised,
when an hon. member, not now in his
place, brought forward a motion for in-
quiring into the distressed state of the
country; he was, he confessed, surprised
on that occasion, and he made the obser-
vation "more in sorrow than in anger,"
that the agriculturists did not exert them-
selves. But those gentlemen had now
come to their senses-the danger had
overtaken them-it was at their own door
-and they stood forward boldly, honour-
ably, and in a manner worthy of the
aristocracy of the country. They, he was
sure, could make an impression on that
House and on the government. They had
only to say, This must be done," and it
certainly would be done. They were told
that no legislative measure could do any
good-they were desired to trust in Provi-
dence-to trust, in short, to any thing but
themselves. If this advice were correct,
what was the use of their meeting together ?
It would be better to have no parliament

Hansard's Parl, Deb., v. X i.p, p101,

[FEB. 4.]

King'st Speech. 82

Address on the


at all, rather than to meet for no purpose.
He would say, if they were in such a
hopeless situation, that the people were
misrepresented-that they were mis-
governed-and that the waste of the
public wealth noticed in the amendment
was perfectly true. [hear, hear] Such
was really the present state of things;
and if they looked back at what occurred
for a series of years, and acted justly and
fairly, there would then be some chance
of reformation. If the things which he
had described had happened in spite of
their legislative measures,-in spite of
their liberal policy, as it was called,-and
if those measures were really founded in
wisdom, there was no hope of salvation.
But they had come to that pass, that they
could not avoid doing something. He
could not state the remedies that ought to
be resorted to; but this he knew, that they
must either bring up the prices to a level
with thetaxation, or bring down the taxation
to a level with the prices. [hear] If par-
liament did not adopt one or other of these
plans, he was as certain as that he stood
there, that he should live to witness-and
at his time of life he could not expect to
see many years--a scene of dreadful con-
fusion in this country. [hear] In stating
his opinions, he was actuated by no ill
feeling towards any party or set of men.
He had nothing to hope or to expect from
any party. He stood there merely to do
his duty; and however unworthily placed
in that House as one of the representatives
of the metropolis of the British empire, he
should betray his trust if he did not openly
state his opinion. Therefore he entreated
the House to forego all private and per-
sonal feeling, and to look to the general
state of the country, every part of which was
suffering under the mostdreadful distress.
[hear] To the original Address he could not
agree, containing as it did, a palpable false-
hood as to the distresses of the country.
Mr. E. Davenport said, many very mate-
rial amendments ought to be added to the
Address proposed by the noble lord. The
first amendment ought to be a declaration
of the expediency of getting rid of that
immense military force which, in times of
peace, their ancestors considered as an
unconstitutional incumbrance, and which
only enabled ministers to hold out bribes
for the support of members of Parliament.
The second obvious amendment was one
which the circumstances of the country
naturally suggested-namely, that if they

[ONS,] King's Speech. 84
had the capacity, they should pledge
themselves to his Majesty to call the public
servants to account, and to bring those to
condign punishment who had betrayed
their trust; and, with a view to their own
emolument, continued to receive unreduced
salaries to the present hour. As to the
Speech which he had heard read, he
thought he should be able to explain some
portions of it which seemed to strike with
surprise several hon. members who had
spoken before him. In the first place,
however, he begged leave to express his
extreme concern at that part of the Speech
which related to our diplomatic relations
with Portugal. His view of that part of
the Speech was different from that of the
hon. baronet who moved the amendment;
for he heard with great concern that his
Majesty ever meant to conciliate a man
whose conduct ought to put him out of
the pale of the sovereigns of Europe. He
should, if this were the proper time, dilate
farther on this subject; but he would only
say at present, that when the pressure of
affairs enabled them to consider this ques-
tion, he would bring before the House the
subject of our relations with Portugal; and
he would show on that day, that the
existence of this monster (for so he would
call him) on the throne of Portugal, was
mainly owing to this country. The Speech
declared, that the distress in the country
was merely partial. This seemed to puzzle
several gentlemen. But it was not diffi-
cult to show why that distress, which they
all knew to be general, appeared to minis-
ters to be only partial. The fact was, that
amongst the land-owners of this country,
there was a strong indisposition to do any
thing that might hazard their losing the
patronage of government. They would,
he believed, rather encounter ruin than
come forward and fairly declare the des-
perate condition in which landed property
was. They did not lik0 to state the fact
plainly, lest they might thereby interfere
with the prospects of the rising generation :
that was the reason why they did not like
to come forward, as they ought, to that
House to seek redress. But what was the
state of the gentry of England ? Why,
every man, whether a gentleman or a
clergyman, [laughter] wished to make all
the males of his family gentlemen, and
this could only be done by placing them in
the different professions. The attempt to
attain that object had changed the once
independent gentlemen of England, and

85 Address on the

turned them into courtiers. Lord Bacon
had said, A country overcharged with
taxes cannot be thriving;" and he also
observed," Let any country that wishes to
be great, not allow the nobility and gentry
to increase too fast, for where the nobility
and gentry are extremely numerous, the
people will be base." This government
seemed to proceed on a principle different
from that. A body of ministers, abler, he
supposed, than lord Bacon, had contrived,
in the eighteen years during which his
present majesty had been in power, to
make no fewer than sixty peers; and he
was informed by an individual who was
conversant in these matters, that at the
period of the Union a majority of the
other House did not sit by hereditary
descent. When they considered these
points, it was not wonderful that the
country gentlemen had not complained
either to this or to the other House of par-
liament. The next point in the Speech
related to the unfavourableness of the
seasons. But would that account for all
the distress ? Would it account for a fall
of thirty per cent in the price of cattle ?
Would it account for a reduction of thirty
per cent in the value of cheese? Would
it account for the fall in the price of every
thing in the shop and in the warehouse ?
The next expression would be exceedingly
consolatory, if we could attach the slightest
authority to it. The expression to which
he alluded was, that the distress was not
of a permanent character. Now, he
thought he could satisfy the House that
the assertion was not worth one farthing.
In 1828, when the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer was told of the danger that would
ensue from the withdrawal of several mil-
lions of one-pound notes, he stated their
amount atabout 2,250,0001.-a statement
which was entirely erroneous. An indi-
vidual had written to him on the subject,
and stated that, on examination, he found
that four-fifths of those notes had been out
three years, and considerably above one-
half of them had been out seven years.
He therefore inferred that the amountwas
7,000,0001. or 8,000,0001. instead of
2,250,0001. And further, he must argue,
that the increased issue of 51. notes did
not make up for the deficiency thus
created, and that the issue of sovereigns
was not likely to increase a circulation the
basis of which -was credit. As to the
boast so often made in that House with
reference to the extent of our exports, its

fallacy had been clearly shown by the hon.
alderman below him, particularly in the
course of the last session. Ministers ap-
peared to entertain strange ideas of political
economy. They looked to the production
of a vast quantity of goods as a proof of
the flourishing state of the country, no
matter whether those goods fetched any
thing or nothing in the market. Now it
was notorious that the master-manufac-
turers who had produced those goods had
been obliged to sell them under prime
cost. And was that, he would ask, a
matter of boast to be inserted in a king's
Speech ? He knew that the noble duke at
the head of the government entertained
very singular ideas as to the situation of
the country. He said that the extravagant
system which prevailed during thewar must
be abandoned, and moderate and sober
habits introduced [hear]. Sober habits, he
admitted, were very good, but why not ex-
tend them to all-to ministers, tosinecurists,
to all who live on the taxes? [hear] for if
Order and sobriety,
Are the rules of his society,''
why not make them general? [cheers and
laughter] But in many parts of the
country, the people were sober enough to
satisfy any body, being reduced to pota-
toes and water. The noble duke ought to
recollect, that those sober people had each
contributed his mite to present him with
the most splendid reward ever given to a
soldier. But he doubted whether they
would have granted him 700,0001. if they
thought that he would have supported
laws the tendency of which was to double
that sum. In conclusion, he would ob-
serve, with respect to the national creAit,
that there were two species of debts-that
which the government borrowed, and that
which by Mr. Peel's bill was doubled. The
first would be paid, but the second never
would be, never could be, and never ought
to be paid.
Mr. Alderman Thompson. I should
have contented myself by being silent this
evening, if an hon. member had not ad-
verted to a statement made which may
go into society; and I feel that I owe it to
my own character, and that it is due to the
House, that I should give an explanation
of the motives that actuate the class of
the community to which I belong, as it
will also serve to shew why I shall vote as
I intend to do. If his majesty's ministers
had simply announced that the distress
did not affect one interest merely, but that

[ FEB. 4. ]

King's Speech.

87 Address on the

it had spread generally over the country,
there would have been little debating that
night. He was not disposed, from any
thing he had that evening heard, to with-
draw his confidence from his majesty's
ministers. He had no doubt the measures
ministerswould suggestwouldbe those best
calculated to relieve the overwhelming dis-
tress which now spread itself over every
class of the community. But hemust beg
the right hon. gentleman to be cautious
how he calculated the exports of the coun-
try to a vast extent. British manufac-
tures had found no market at the price
they could command a few years ago, but
the merchants were compelled to send
their goods abroad on the chance of sale
anywhere, and at almost any price. The
capitalist of London had changed his
mode of dealing, and had lately assumed
the character of a pawn-broker. British
goods were sent in this way not to the
continental markets merely, but to the
whole world. There were goods now
lying in the Custom-house which had been
offered for sale in vain, and could be sold
at no house at all in the city [hear].
The House was not the place to go into
details of that kind; but if the House
would permit him to read a letter which a
friend had put into his hands this evening,
they would know what was well enough
known in the mercantile world, that the
expenses on British goods exported, ex-
ceed all possible profits that can be
made by their sale [The worthy alderman
here read the letter, which described the
state of manufactured goods exported;
adding, that they were sold in the foreign
market at prices less than their produc-
tion at home cost]. Since 1826, British
manufactures had decreased from forty to
fifty per cent in price. The noble Lord has
said that he can depend on the energies of
the country; that he is sure that London
shops, machinery, and capital, will always
beat the rest of the world in competition
with it. I wish (continued the hon. alder-
man) I could bring my mind to believe
his opinion; but I am afraid we overrate
our resources. I know that there are
manufacturers in this country who have
been living on hope for four years, and who
have labourers also living on hope with a
much smaller subsistence. I saw a friend
who had recently returned from one of the
largest districts in the country, and he
said both masters and workmen were fast
coming down to despair, I know that

Slabourers perform most painful works, and
that after fourteen hours of hard and con-
stant labour, they can only earn, to main-
tain themselves, a few shillings, utterly in-
sufficient. The retail dealers are sinking into
distress for want of customers, and are un-
able to payrates, rent, or taxes, and trade is
altogether unprofitable. The shop-keepers
are indulging in improbable hopes of amend-
ment. Wretchedness, ruin, and misery
swallow up all in their vortex. Every week
in the Gazette is a long list of bankrupts,
and a longer list of declared insolvents. I
see no reason why the government should
not exercise an unsparing economy. They
may thus relieve the burthens of the
people; and if such a course be not taken
-if such a spirit do not actuate the
government, the very worst consequences
may ensue. [hear]--He then observed,
he was sure some system might have been
adopted by which they might have re-
tained a paper currency, sound in its
principle, and likely to work well. [hear,
hear] He had never been an advocate
for an unlimited paper currency; but still
he said that something must be done,
either by throwing an increased quantity
of money into circulation, or by a reduction
of the taxes. [hear, hear] Since the alter-
ation, what had been the system pursued
in the manufacturing districts ? The
manufacturers had got into the custom of
paying their workmen in goods, keeping,
as it were, a sort of chandler's shop for
provisions and clothing, and supplying, he
was sorry to say, not sufficient quantities
to support the workmen. He now wished
to state the grounds on which he could
not support the amendment of the hon.
baronet. [laughter, and cries of hear!] It
was because he thought it better to wait
for the government to develop their
scheme; and if he should deem it insuffi-
cient, he should then feel it to be his duty
to give his immediate support to those
gentlemen, who, he must however say, he
believed were as anxious for a change of
men as they were for a change of mea-
sures. [hear, hear]
Sir J. Sebright said, he had no doubt
that his majesty's ministers would do all
in their power to relieve the distresses of
the country; but at all events the House
must do its duty; and with such feelings
he should support the amendment, which
more accurately described the distreses
of the country.
TheChan. of the Exchequer said,that for


King's Sp~eech. 88

King's Speech. 90

some years past it had been the admitted
practice of that House, when they thank-
ed his Majesty for his communication, to
reserve for subsequent discussion those
branches of the Speech which any hon.
member might think afforded topics for
the consideration of Parliament. The
hon. baronet had, however, thought that
the present occasion was one on which it
was right to depart from the usual custom,
and he had therefore moved an amendment
to one paragraph in the Speech; though
he must be allowed to say that it appear-
ed to him to vary very little from the sub-
stance of the paragraph of which the hon.
baronet would complain. The Speech
stated that his majesty lamented that
there was distress in some parts of the
country, and the hon. baronet chose to
assume that the statement there made was
false and unfounded. He could assure
the House that, however much many
gentlemen might feel for the distress of
the people, none partook more deeply of
that feeling than those on whom the
responsibility fell of advising his majesty;
and he trusted that the House would not
entertain a different opinion on this point
because the ministry had thought it to be
their duty to advise the king to present to
parliament, not an exaggerated picture of
what existed, but one that they believed to
be correct, from the best information they
were able to procure on the subject. It
was not to be denied that there was a
great and severe pressure of distress in
the manufacturing and agricultural parts
of the community in some parts of the
United Kingdom; and if he excepted
some portions from that summary, it was
because he believed that there were parts
which, so far from being visited with such
an affliction, were enjoying a comparative
state of ease and of comfort. [hear, hear]
It was observable that the Ihon. baronet
had confined his statements to England
only; but he had omitted noticing that
part of the United Kingdom which at all
times had commanded much of the care
and attention of that House--he alluded
to Ireland. [hear] If the hon. baronet
had investigated the state of the agricul-
tural produce in that country, he would
have found that great prosperity and
comfort were existing; and he would like-
wise have found that there were parts of
this country in which much of the pressure
that existed had arisen from the free
introduction of Irish produce; so that in

proportion as one part of the kingdom
was depressed, at least another portion
was benefitted and advanced. If this
were the case, how could his Majesty
have been advised to inform the parlia-
ment that a state of distress pervaded the-
kingdom generally? And it was un-
doubtedly the case, that in the northern
parts of the country, there were districts
in which the distress complained of had
not been felt in any such 'degree.-He
felt it impossible to address himself to the
subject of the amendment without, to a
certain extent, taking into consideration
the speeches by which that amendment
had been supported. The hon. member
for Essex (Mr. Western) had supported
the amendment of the hon. baronet, and
he could not forget the principle upon
which that support had been given; so
that he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer)
found himself still further precluded from
giving his support to the amendment,
when he heard the grounds on which that
amendment was supported. Was there a
man who had heard those speeches who
did not feel that the object of them was
to make an alteration id the standard of
value, or at least in the currency of the
country, so as to change those laws which
the parliament had sanctioned, after a
most mature and anxious deliberation?
[hear, hear] Nor was this attempted at
a period soon after the establishment of
those laws, but now, ten years subse-
quently: so that he certainly thought that
they were called upon to discuss the sub-
ject de novo, rather than in reference to
transactions which were ten years old.
He was not disposed to enter into that
discussion at present, but he must say
that to entertain the proposition of alter-
ing the standard of value which was laid
down in 1819 as the basis of our circula-
tion, or to concur in the restoration of the
circulating medium of one-pound notes,
were concessions which the government
would never be prepared to make, [loud
cheers] as they were concessions which
were not required by the state of the
country. [hear, hear] By pursuing this
conduct, the government might not per-
haps be providing for their popularity at
the present moment; but he believed that
they were pursuing the true course to
benefit the country, and for its future ac-
quiescence in the justice of their conduct
[hear]. For these reasons he felt it to be
his duty to oppose the amendment of the

89 Address on the

[ FE. 4. ]

91 Address on the


King's Speech. 92

hon. baronet, and he knew not to what
object any individual would be looking
who should give it his support. There was
nothing in his majesty's Speech to agree
with which would preclude the opening
of any topic in future; there was nothing
in the Address which pledged any one as
to the degree of sympathy which he was
to feel for the distresses of the country;
there was nothing which precluded their
inquiring into any subject; and, in short,
the Speech comprised in itself what had
appeared to his majesty's ministers to be
the strict and literal truth [hear]. In
agreeing with the Address, it did not pre-
vent any gentleman undertaking the con-
troversion of any isolated fact: above all,
it did not pledge any member to any par-
ticular course, beyond that of a disposi-
tion to economize the public money.
For these reasons he should avoid addres-
sing himself to any of those particular
topics which had been started; and,
indeed, his principle reason for offering
himself to the attention of the House was
for the purpose of assuring it that it was
the firm determination of his majesty's
government to adhere to those measures
which had that night been so freely dis-
cussed, and which he firmly believed to be
calculated to afford the greatest advant-
age to the country. [hear]
Mr. Maberly said, the Chancellor of the
Exchequer, in the Speech which he adjust
concluded, appeared to think that the sole
object of the hon. baronet, and of those
who supported his amendment, was to
alter the standard of value, or to return
wholly to a paper currency. Such was
by no means the fact; and he (Mr.
Maberly) would, on a future occasion, tell
the right hon. gentleman how a paper
currency might be adopted without once
touching the standard of value. For his
part, he had not heard from the hon. ba-
ronet that he wanted either an alteration
of the standard, or an equitable adjust-
ment, or any such thing. The principle
on which the hon. baronet had dealt with
the Speech was, that he did not consider
it sufficiently explicit of the intentions
of his majesty's ministers. It was quite
clear that ministers were bound to propose
some remedy for the evils that prevailed.
Did they not know that the alteration
of the currency caused the distress? He
maintained that a great deal both of dis-
tress and difficulty might have been
avoided by more careful measures respect-

ing the one-pound notes. Did ministers
say that they recommended a reduction of
taxation?-No, but they recommended
what? Why-nothing more than cau-
tion. [hear] Yes, caution was the only
thing they recommended, not one word
being said about the reduction of taxes.
But the people could not go on paying
taxes if the present low profits upon.all
produce continued. That House would
not do its duty, either to the sovereign or
to the people, if it did not support every
measure which tended to diminish the
severe burthens of the people. Disregard-
ing for the present every other remedy, he
would undertake on an early day to pro-
pose one which should stand and run.
[laughter] Yes, he would propose a
measure for establishing a safe paper cur-
rency, without at all interfering with the
standard. On what basis did the present
metallic currency stand? Why, entirely
on the Bank of England, the capital of
which was largely employed in Exche-
quer-bills and other securities-securities,
too, that at various periods, as in the year
1825, for instance, were not convertible.
To talk about a metallic currency, was
quite idle, there was no sound metallic
currency in the country, what there was
must give way in time of pressure. It
was infinitely better to have a steady
paper circulation than a metallic currency,
which might be so affected. The Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer did not recommend
inquiry; and why? Because he said he
could not sanction any alteration in the
measures relating to the currency. He
did not object to the right hon. gentleman
taking the remedy into his own hands, if
he only told them what he meant to do;
but what he particularly complained of
was, that there was to be no remedy at
all. Nothing but caution was recom-
mended. The House, he hoped, would
take upon itself that duty which the right
hon. gentleman neglected. He hoped
that the House would institute an inquiry
to ascertain what taxes might be reduced.
There were seven millions of taxes laid
upon beer and malt, but why was not this
impost laid upon beer alone, or upon malt
alone? No, this was not to be done, and
the reason was obvious, because the ex-
pense of collection on both together was
370,0001. a-year. He complained of the
expense of collecting some other taxes,
and expressed his earnest hope that the
House would promptly institute an in-

93 Address on the [ FE
quiry into the existing distress, with a
view to providing some effectual remedy.
If the House insisted upon a large re-
duction of the taxation, the ministers
would soon shape the expenditure accord-
Mr. O'Connell said, he did not presume
to think that either redress to the people
or instruction to the House could follow
from the few observations which he should
trespass on the House on the present oc-
casion. The people had sent him there to
do their business, and in the discharge of
his duty he felt that he was authorised to
express his humble opinion as to the state
of the country. In the discharge of that
duty also, he might have to address them
oftener than he could wish; and the only
compensation that he could make was, to
promise to be as brief as he possibly
could. He had now to address himself to
the Speech from the Throne, of which he
felt himself bound to speak in as harsh
terms as he might consistently with the
respect to which it was entitled ; it was
entitled to respect as emanating from the
king-and the king's name was a tower of
strength; it was entitled to courtesy as
proceeding from the noble duke at the
head of state affairs and of the govern-
ment; and, on these accounts, he should
treat it with respect and courtesy; but
when he looked at what the document was
in itself, he felt warranted in saying that
anything so unsatisfactory in its propo-
sitions, and so meagre in its details, could
scarcely have been concocted or con-
ceived. [hear] The seconder of the
Address, in his observations, had alluded
to France and America. Did he think
that in France, with its new institutions,
such a Speech would have been endured
by the real representatives of that people ?
[hear] Or did he think that a message
from the chief magistrate of the Ameri-
cans, containing such jejune and empty
statements, would have been tolerated for
a moment? [hear] Let the House con-
trast it with the message that had lately
been sent by the President of the United
States. Let them look at the minuteness
of detail, let them look at the wise sug-
gestions which that message contained,
and then compare it with the Speech which
they then had before them. Would any
one pretend to tell him that if that House
really represented the people at large,
such a Speech would ever have been
offered to their consideration? [hear]

.4. ] King's Speech. 94
What did it contain? The first point was,
that foreign nations continued to speak
in terms of peace; but did they ever do
otherwise when a war was on the point
of breaking out, or even when the war
itself had actually commenced ? The next
information was, that the Russian war
was at an end. That was an important
discovery, indeed; and, of course, none
of them knew that before [a laugh.]
They were then told that nothing was de-
termined as to Portugal. And why?
Ahl! they were not told that [hear]. Was
the character of Don Miguel then doubt-
ful? Did any one doubt that he had
usurped the throne of another, and en-
deavoured to cement his seat by the spil-
ling of innocent blood? [hear] If so,
why did the government of England shrink
from the decision to which it ought to
come ? They were next told of the par-
tial distress of the country. But was that
a fact ? He thought that the expressions
which had fallen from the three hon.
members on the other side who had
supported the Address, were-the one,
that the distress was general; the second,
that the distress was extraordinary ; and
the third, that the distress was overwhelm-
ing. [laughter and cries of hear, hear]
The chancellor of the Exchequer, how-
ever, had made one happy discovery; he
had found an Oasis in the desert"--a
country where no distress at all existed:
and, who would have thought it ?-that
country was Ireland. [laughter] He had
lately been in Ireland, but anything more
astonishing he certainly had never heard
in his life. Was it then not true, that
there were seven thousand registered per-
sons in Dublin alone actually living on
three half-pence a day, and that even that
miserable pittance was almost exhausted
-the first subscription (with the lord
lieutenant at the head) amounting to
3,5001. and the second to no more than
3001.? Why, if this were true, what
very cruel landlords, what very stingy
agriculturists must Ireland contain, that
they should be in such a state of pros-
perity, and not even contribute a farthing
to such miserable objects of pity. [hear]
He did not like to pledge himself to any
statement of facts, as to every part of the
country, but he pretty well knew three pro-
vinces in Ireland-the provinces of Lein-
ster, Connaught, and Munster, andhe knew
that the agriculturalists in those three
provinces were suffering the greatest dis-

95 Address on the

tress. In many parts of those provinces
the rents were paid, not out of the profits
of the land, but out of the capital of the
farmer. There had been various instances
in which the rents had been obtained only
by levying an execution, and by the sale
even of the very blankets with which the
unfortunate tenant had been covered.
In the production of that distress, as far
as his information went, many causes con-
curred, but unquestionably the state of
the currency was one of those causes.
He felt that he had a right to complain of
the omission of all allusion to these cir-
cumstances in the Speech; and he felt
that he had a right to complain that all
allusion to the state of Ireland was omitted
in that speech, and that it was alluded to
only in a kind of parenthesis in the Speech
of the right honourable the chancellor of
the Exchequer. The right hon. gentle-
man had given a pledge on the part of
his majesty's government that they would
not propose any measure of interference
with the currency. He (Mr. O'Connell)
was convinced that they could not adhere
to that pledge without diminishing the
taxation of the country, and reducing it,
not by candle-ends and cheese-parings,
but by millions upon millions. [hear
hear] Instead of keeping up a taxation
of sixty millions, if we persevered in a
gold currency, we must cut that taxation
down to fifteen or twenty millions. [hear]
Let that be done; and then the currency
might be maintained in its present state.
Among the great causes of the distress of
the people, were the abuses existing in the
courts of law. Those abuses ought to be
corrected equally in the courts of common
law, in the courts of equity, in the courts
of admiralty, and in the ecclesiastical
courts. He therefore warmly approved
of that passage in the Speech in which his
majesty stated that "his attention had
been of late earnestly directed to various
important considerations connected with
improvements in the general administra-
tion of the law." That was the solitary
passage in thewhole of the Speech which
met with his cordial approbation. There
must be reforms in the law, the present
piebald system of Equity, Common-law, of
the Ecclesiastical and Admiralty courts
(different in each) must be simplified and
assimilated. He offered his humble meed
of sincere thanks to the right hon. Secre-
tary (Mr. Peel) for his successful attempts
to break down some of the legal defects

which deformed the system. But we
should proceed further; banish the bar-
barities of special pleading, and cause all
our courts to act upon one consistent and
defined principle. That distress existed
in many places must be admitted. The
chancellor of the Exchequer admitted its
existence in England. What was the
cause of this? Was it owing to want of
industry, intelligence, economy, or perse-
verance in the people? Certainly not;
the people of England were possessed of
all these qualities in an eminent degree,
and yet they were distressed. What was
the cause of this ? It was to be found,
not in the people, but in the misgovern-
ment to which they had been subjected.
One salutary effect of the existing distress
would probably be, that it would deprive
the administration of the confidence of
the people. If they met in their cities
and counties, and made use of a gentle
and constitutional compulsion towards
ministers, ministers would yield, and a
salutary reform would be the consequence.
As he had before stated, we should have
a thorough reform of the law. Talk not
of modifying the Game-laws for instance,
but abolish that cruel code altogether
which now filled our prisons. There
should be an investigation of the state of
the representation, with a view to render
it satisfactory to the people, who, if pro-
perly represented, could not complain with
justice of the measures adopted by par-
liament. If the people, instead of being
properly, or even partially represented,
were left unrepresented-if there was a
traffic in boroughs to fill up the ranks
of the ministerial legions, it could not be
expected that the people should be satis-
fied. He looked forward to the existing
distress with satisfaction in one point of
view-it would cause the people to raise
their voice aloud, and demand a radical
and complete reform. He had now made
some confession of his political faith.
From the people he came-they' had sent
him thither to do the work of the people.
He should support the amendment pro-
posed by the hon. baronet, the member
for Kent; and if that were lost, he wished
to propose a resolution to the effect that
the existence of distress being admitted, and
that this distress not being caused by any
fault of the people, it was the first duty
of the House to inquire into its causes,
with a view to affording radical and satis-
factory relief to all parties. He would


King's Speech. 96

King's Speech. 98

then move (supposing his resolution to be
adopted) that the House do sit from day
to day until it had ascertained the causes
of the public distress. [cheers and laughter]
Mr. Huskisson said, there had been al-
ready one amendment proposed, and notice
given of no fewer than three others. He
was far from censuring the practice of
proposing amendments on such occasions
as the present. He came down to the
House altogether ignorant of the contents
of his Majesty's Speech, and equally igno-
rant of the intention of the hon. baronet,
or of any other gentleman, to propose an
amendment; but an amendment having
been moved, and a debate having arisen
upon it, he felt called upon, without refer-
ence to the possibility of prospective
arrangements, which might be for consider-
ation hereafter, to express his opinion on
the subject with reference to the simple
matter of fact as to the state of the coun-
try, which was the real question in issue.
If the question were as to any particular
mode of relief, it would be equally unwise
and unbecoming to go into it when assem-
bled to thank his majesty for his gracious
Speech; accordingly, from any thing of
that sort he should cautiously abstain.
But, after what he had heard from the
noble mover and hon. seconder of the pro.-
posed Address, after all that had fallen
from those who had subsequently address-
ed the House, and from his own knowledge
of facts, he felt bound to state his opinion
that the real facts of the case, as regarded
the public distress, were more correctly
stated in the amendment moved by the
hon. baronet than in the Address proposed
by the noble lord. [hear] Entertaining
that opinion, whatever might be his wish
to abstain from saying anything upon this
occasion, he was no longer at liberty to
support an Address which did not contain
so accurate an estimate of the actual state
of the country as was to be found in the
amendment. He thought it a material
circumstance in the present state of uni-
versal disquietude and dissatisfaction that
prevailed, not to provoke a hostile discus-
sion between the representatives of the
people and the people themselves, and not
to call down on the House of Commons
reproach by understating the distress and
difficulty of the time. The best course to
be adopted in order to meet and overcome
these difficulties was to look at and avow
them fairly. He was not one of those who
thought the difficulties so great as they

had been represented in many quarters-
he did not despair of seeing the country
restored to a situation of prosperity; but
from all the information he possessed, he
felt satisfied that there now existed that
degree of pressure on the productive classes
generally, which, were it to be permanent
or long continued, would be incompatible
with their continuous existence. [hear]
He was of opinion that the country, as far
as the productive classes were concerned,
was in an unsatisfactory and suffering, but
he trusted and believed not in a decaying
and falling state. If parliament looked at
the subject properly, and acted as a part
of the Speech recommended, they would
find themselves fully competent to cope
with the existing difficulties, and to over-
come them. But it was by studying to
benefit, to the utmost, the industrious
classes that we could alone lay any solid
foundation of public happiness, or revive
prosperity. There were many things diffi-
cult to be accounted for in our present
condition, but which parliament would do
well to attend to. Some gentlemen attri-
buted the distress to a supposed deficiency
in the currency,-a proposition which he
thought it would be difficult to maintain,
for we now saw money more abundant in
this metropolis than at any former period;
we saw Exchequer-bills producing two-and
a-quarter per cent interest, selling at a
premium of 75s., and we saw the low rate
at which money was every day borrowed.
The fact was, there was a stagnation in
several parts of our productive industry,
and an overflow of capital in others. It
was cause of satisfaction to observe, that
the produce of our exports last year ex-
ceeded the exports of any preceding year,
but at the same time we knew that the
capital and property so employed had in
many instances been unproductive. It
would be difficult to reconcile the two facts
of a deficient currency and a low rate of
profit. In almost all branches of productive
industry the profits were so small as not to
compensate for the amount of capital em-
ployed, or afford sufficient support to the
individuals whose labour was required.
There must be some irregularity of action
in our condition. Circumstanced as we
were, to propose to increase the currency
would be similar to recommending an indi-
vidual, subject to too great and rapid an
action of the blood, to drink a quantity of
brandy. He would not support the hon.
baronet's motion if by so doing he should

97 Address on the

[ FEB. 4. ]

be thought to imply an assent to some of before known; but such statements were
the doctrines urged by its supporters. So not uncommon in speeches from the
far was he from concurring in those doc- throne. For his part, he was glad that it
trines, that he had heard with satisfaction was stated simply that the war had termi-
what fell from the chancellor of the Ex- nated, without any explanation of the
chequer in answer to them. He was mode by which that termination had been
satisfied that among the causes of disquie- effected. [hear and laughter] It was a
tude and dissatisfaction that existed, were received principle, that the independence
the delusive hopes, the unfounded appre- of Turkey was necessary to the mainte-
hensions, and general anxiety, that must nance of a just balance of power in
prevail in a country, so long as that which Europe, and that circumstance did throw
formed the measure of value with respect upon government the onus of show-
to property was subject to doubt and ing that there was nothing in the treaty
change. If then we had even been in error between Turkey and Russia contrary to
(which he was far from admitting, but this principle. However, when the docu-
maintained the contrary) in 1819, 1825, inents were before the House, it would be
or 1826, it would be better to persevere time enough for them to discuss how far
than to unsettle the state of the country, the spirit of the treaty of the 6th July had
by again tampering with the currency, been preserved. Up to the arrival of the
[hear] It was to other means that the Russians in Adrianople, no great progress
country must look for relief. An unsettled appeared to have been made in the cause
state of the public mind was one of the of the Greeks. With respect to Portu-
greatest evils that could befall a country. gal, whatever disposition there had been,
He did not collect from the speech of the during the two last sessions, to abstain
hon. baronet, that any member was re- from looking into the question of our
quired to commit himself to particular foreign relations, he hoped that we should
measures if he supported the amendment, no longer avoid an inquiry which it was
His right hon. friend hinted that distress necessary for the character of the country
was not so general as the amendment to make [hear]. A recognition of Don
would make it appear; but all his inge- Miguel had been hinted at, but if it was
nuity could not prove that the distress carried into effect we ought to receive
was confined to some particular parts of more information on the subject than we
the country, as the Address stated. The had obtained last session. Till we had
productive classes generally were in a obtained further information, we were not
state of distress. He believed that this in a situation to investigate whether (not
was owing to causes, to many of which it merely in reference to the question of
was beyond the power of parliament to legal right, but with regard to the honour
apply a remedy; but it was in their of the country, and our ancient alliance
power to satisfy the country as to what with Portugal) we had properly discharg-
the causes were, and to afford partial ed all our obligations. He had witnessed
relief by giving a better direction to the with great regret in his Majesty's Speech,
capital of the country ; upon that point which ought to advert to all matters of ge-
he differed materially from the hon. se- neral interest, an omission of all refer-
conder of the address. The hon. member ence to wars waging in another hemi-
seemed to hint that the reduction of the sphere. There was a treaty of peace and
rate of interest in some of the higher amity between this country and Mexico,
denominations of the public securities and he should have thought that the efforts
would operate favourably, but it appeared made to prevent the industry of that
to him that even that reduction was far country from taking a natural direction,
from being an unmixed good. The amend- that the attempts at a predatory warfare,
ment had been described to be a milk- inconsistent with the revival of industry in
and-water amendment," but that rather Mexico and other states of the new conti-
recommended it to his support [hear and nent,inconsistent with the interests of com-
laughter.] He did not wish to enter into the merce and ,navigation, hostile to the proper
large field of foreign politics, but he might management of the mines of South Ame-
observe, in passing, that his Majesty's rica, which it was our interest to have as
Speech merely stated that the war between productive as possible,-he thought that
Russia and Turkey had terminated. This these were matters which required some
was the statementof a fact, it had been said, I notice, and he should have been glad to

Ziny'g Spefthc. 100

09, Address on the


hear that his majesty continued to use water was precisely that which would best
endeavour for the restoration of peace, suit the right hon. gentleman's constitu-
tranquillity, and security in the new tion. [hear and laughter] The doctrine
states, in the prosperity of which this of his right hon. friend (Mr. Huskisson)
country had the greatest possible in- had been, on former occasions, when
terest. It was not the interests of trade changes were called for, beware how
and commerce that were alone concerned, you excite fallacious hopes-trust to the
the matter did not relate to this country native energy-the natural elasticity of
only. Europe had the greatest possible our resources, by which we have so often
interest that South America should be in triumphed; and do not risk the permanent
a state of tranquillity and independence, interests of the country by rash experi-
and that those states should be made va- ments on the capital and industry of our
luable and useful civilized societies. fellow-subjects." The right hon. gentle-
There was a time when these states looked man had not only resisted practical
up to this country as a power ready to res- measures, but committees of inquiry, lest
cue them from impending dangers, not by he should excite false expectations; and
military demonstrations, but by its good now, hearing an amendment proposed, on
offices, of which they were worthy as far principles from which he totally dissents,
as they could be exerted, if not in refer- he is, nevertheless, prepared to support it,
ence to their peace and tranquillity, because he thinks the exposition of facts
yet with reference to our own interest. The contained in the amendment better than
omissions of the Speech had been com- that in the Speech from the throne. What
plained of-it did not advert to Ire- course did the right hon. gentleman take
land. He did not pretend to know with with regard to the committee moved for to
any degree of accuracy the state of Ire- inquire into the state of the currency ?
land. He should have thought, that after He resisted its appointment to the last,
the great act of justice of last session, we lest its appointment should unsettle men's
might have been told whether that mea- minds, and upon the same principle he
sure hadproduced all the benefits which he resisted the inquiry into the state of the
for one had anticipated. He believed it silk trade last session. [hear] However,
had produced great benefits: he believed it would have been more consistent if his
that such had been the effect of that right hon. friend had waited till he heard
great measure of justice, conciliation, and what specific measures were to be pro-
relief, which was so strongly recommend- posed, before he opposed his majesty's
ed in the royal Speech of last session. It government. It would have been better
was not matter of surprise with him, if he had not endeavoured to raise the
therefore, that Ireland did not hold so expectations of the country, as they must
prominent a position as some gentlemen be raised, if we admitted the existence of
appeared to suppose it ought; but it was universal distress, and dissented from the
matter of surprise to him that the effect of Speech from the throne, stating that his
this measure had not been mentioned. majesty's ministers had been misinformed
He concluded by declaring that he felt -that all our interests were suffering
himself bound in justice to support the under no ordinary pressure, and that we
amendment, because it expressed the facts would direct our efforts to provide relief.
of the case with more justice to the feel- Depend upon it, if you vote the amend-
ings of the House, and to the duty which ment now proposed, and if it shall turn
the throne and the country had a right to out that your efforts to relieve the distress
expect from them, than the original amend- are vain, you will have done more harm
ment. than good, and you will have raised
Mr. Sec. Peel said, he certainly was not expectations which it will be impossible to
surprised to hear his right hon. friend say, fulfil. The amendment was not correct;
that the chief recommendation of the lion. the expressions contained in it narrowed
baronet's amendment in his eyes consisted the sentiments of the king's Speech instead
ini its being a milk-and-water amend- of extending them; it spoke of distress
meant because when he recollected the in particular places;" the Speech men-
votes uniformly given by his right hon. tioned some parts of the United King-
friend, and the doctrines which he had dom" as being distressed, a wider and
uniformly held, he must say, that the more comprehensive expression. As to
*mallest possible infusion of milk in the the omission of certain topics in the Speech
F o

101 Address on the

king~'s Speech,. 102

SFEB. 4. ]

King's Speech. 104

and among the rest, the omission of all
mention of Ireland, he certainly did think,
that after the completion of that measure
in which Ireland took such a deep interest,
-after that country had been placed on a
footing of equality with the rest of the
empire,-there existed no necessity for
making special mention of a part of the
kingdom which had no longer any thing to
distinguish it from the remainder. Since
the passing of that measure it might be
said of the two countries--
---- Paribus se legibus ambwe
Invicte gentes wterna in federal mittant."
The quotation had been applied by Mr.
Pitt to the expected effect of the Union,
and certainly it was not less appropriate
when used with reference to the measure
recently accomplished. Under such cir-
cumstances, it might fairly be said, that
the time had arrived when we might con-
sider the condition of Ireland the same as
that of the other parts of the United
Kingdom, and except the occurrence of
special circumstances required it, Ireland
need not be particularly mentioned. It
was now to be looked upon as England or
Scotland. He would say, however, that
the condition of Ireland was now much
better and more satisfactory than it had
been previous to the last session of parlia-
ment. An hon. gentleman had drawn a
comparison, unfavourable to the latter,
between the American President's Message
and his Majesty's Speech. Whatever
might be that gentleman's satisfaction at
the tenor of the American message, his
was as great. The manner in which Eng-
land was mentioned by the president gave
his majesty's government, in common with
all other classes of their fellow-subjects, the
sincerest pleasure; and he was glad of that
opportunity to repeat the expressions of
amity and friendship used by that distin-
guished man when speaking of this
country. His words were these:-"With
Great Britain, alike distinguished in peace
and war, we may look forward to years of
peaceful, honourable, and elevated com-
petition. Every thing in the condition and
history of the two nations is calculated to
inspire sentiments of mutual respect, and
to carry conviction to the minds of both,
that it is their policy to preserve the most
cordial relations. Such are my own views,
and it is not to be doubted that such are
also the prevailing sentiments of our con-
stituents." He re-echoed these sentiments:

-May all the competition between the
two countries be the competition of in-
dustry, civilization, and peace!-May the
foolish sentiments of individual hostility
entertained by some in both countries,
gradually vanish before the influence of
good sense and right feeling: and, as both
nations possess a common language, and
are derived from a common source, may
they be united in lasting relations of good-
will and amity! He gladly took this
opportunity, on the part of the English
government, of re-echoing, with respect to
America, those kindly sentiments which
her President had expressed towards us.
But in contrasting the two Speeches, the
hon. gentleman began by complaining of
the mention made in his majesty's Message
of so notorious a fact as the termination of
hostilities between Russia and Turkey.
As his majesty had announced to parlia-
ment the breaking out of the war between
these powers, it was proper that he should
mention its termination. The hon. gentle-
man also complained of our treatment of
Don Miguel, and spoke of the supposed
feelings of America if she had received
such a Speech as the English parliament
had received on the subject. But the fact
was, that the American President recog-
nized Don Miguel, as was apparent from
this passage of his message: During the
recess of Congress,our diplomatic relations
with Portugal have been resumed. The
peculiar state of things in that country
caused a suspension of the recognition of
the representative who presented himself,
until an opportunity was had to obtain
from our official organ their information
regarding the actual, and as far as practi-
cable prospective, condition of the autho-
rity by which the representative in question
was appointed. This information being
received, the application of the established
rule of our government in like cases was
no longer withheld." [hear, hear] The
hon. gentleman attributed all our distresses
to misgovernment, and to defects in our
representative system; but, unfortunately
for his hypothesis, the same distress which
we complained of in England existed in
America, where the representation was
constructed on the basis of universal
suffrage. [hear] What said President
Jackson on this subject?-" No very con-
siderable change has occurred during the
recess of Congress, in the condition of
either our agriculture, commerce, or manu-
factures. The operation of the tariff has

Address on the


105 Address on the

not proved so injurious to the two former,
nor as beneficial to the latter, as was
anticipated. Importations of foreign goods
have not been sensibly diminished, while
domestic competition, under an illusive
excitement, has increased the production
much beyond the demand for home con-
sumption. The consequences have been
low prices, temporary embarrassment, and
partial loss. That such of our manufac-
turing establishments as are based upon
capital, and are prudently managed, will
survive the shock, and be ultimately pro-
fitable, there is no good reason to doubt."
With respect to the amendment, during
the last thirty years there had been no
occasion upon which an amendment to an
Address had been carried;*-that in nine-
teen years out of the thirty no amendment
was proposed ;-and that the present was
anAddress in respect of which no objection
could be made, with the exception of the
omission of two or three topics. A gentle-
man complained of the policy of late
governments in adding to the House of
Peers; but from this charge the duke of
Wellington, who had made only one peer
since he became prime minister, was free.
The Speech stated the increase of exports
in the last year; and it was said we in-
ferred from thence that our trade and
commerce were in a flourishing condition.
But we inferred no such thing ; we only
stated facts; and, notwithstanding the
increased exports, his majesty regretted
the prevalence of distress in some parts of
the kingdom. It was said ministers had
not stated facts correctly, and that they
were indifferent to the distress, because
they recommended no remedy. Where
was the proof that the Speech from the
throne mis-stated facts ? Was the House
prepared at once, without inquiry, and
without the necessary information before
it, to sanction by its vote the allegation
made in the amendment of the hon.

It had probably escaped Mr. Peel's re-
collection, that upon one occasion, [Sess. 1812;
see Hansard's Part. Deb. vol xxi, p. 17, first
series] sir Francis Burdett by immediately
rising upon the Lords Commissioners Speech
having been read, and first catching the eye
of the Speaker, who therefore decided that the
hon. baronet was in possession of the House,
moved an Address which would otherwise
have been proposed as an amendment, so
that the ministerial intended Address was ne-
cessarily proposed as the Amendment, by Lord
Jocelyn, and so carried,

baronet, that the distress was universal,
and existed throughout all parts of the
country? The hon. baronet's amendment
stated that all the productive interests of
the country were suffering severely under
a general depression. There was no
qualification whatever in the statement.
Was the House prepared, in the face of
Europe, to sanction such a statement?
[hear] Distress exists in my own
neighbourhood," argued the hon. baronet
and those who support him, therefore I
am bound to conclude that the distress
is universal amongst all the productive
interests of the country." Should not the
House pause before it founded a state-
ment as to such an important matter upon
evidence of such description? Should not
the House pause before it took for granted
any such statement, the more particularly
when it found this important fact men-
tioned in the Speech from the throne,
namely-that the exports of British pro-
duce during the last year had far exceeded
those of any former year ? It was rather
extraordinary, with such a gratifying state-
ment in his majesty's Speech, to find an
amendment proposed, which declares, that
all the productive interests of the country
are labouring under severe depression. The
House should therefore hesitate before it
adopted such a proposition. [cheers]
But it might be said, that this was no
proof of the prosperity of the country,
and perhaps it would be added, that all
these exports were sold at a loss, and that
no return was made from them. But was
it to be supposed that, year after year,
from the year 1819,-for that was the
period from which the distress was dated,
-was it to be imagined that year after
year, from that time, the manufacturers
of this country had continued manufac-
turing and exporting at a positive loss?
[hear] Was it probable that such a
thing could have occurred? But then it
was asserted, that let the amount of our
foreign exports be what they might, our
home market was depressed; and that
while an increase had taken place in our
exports to foreign countries, a great and
corresponding decline had taken place
in our home consumption. He would at
once meet and deny that assertion.
[hear] No corresponding decline in our
home consumption had taken place at all
to be put in contradistinction to the ini
crease in our foreign exports. The alle.
nation was, that the distress existed

[ FEB. 4. 1

King's Speech.

King's Speech. 108

universally throughout England, Ireland
and Scotand. He held in his hand re-
turns to disprove to a great extent the
truth of that assertion. He was com-
pelled to refer to matters of detail to
furnish arguments to induce the House
to pause before it adopted the propo-
sition of the hon. baronet. He was
prepared to show, from documents in his
possession, that there had not been the
falling-off that had been stated in the
internal consumption of the country. He
had been furnished with comparative
statements of the amount of tons carried,
and of the tonnage duties received, upon
the principal canals, for a certain number
of years, and the important fact which
they established should be well weighed
by the House before it pledged itself to
the opinion of the hon. baronet, so con-
tradictory as it was to the statement
made from the throne. These statements
exhibited a comparative increase year
after year in the amount of business done
on the principal canals. He would take
a cipher as the foundation of his respec-
tive statements, which would furnish no
indication of the comparative business of
one canal compared with that of another ;
but which would actually show at the
the same time the general increase of
business done on those canals, proving an
increase in the internal consumption of the
country. These returns commenced with
the year 1820,-that year when the bill
which he (Mr. Peel) would never disclaim,
though so much obloquy had been thrown
upon it--he meant the bill for regulating
the metallic standard, and restoring the
currency, took effect. He had expressly
desired that they should be made out
that year, for he well remembered, that
when that bill came into operation, pro-
phecies without number were propounded,
that the commercial transactions and con-
cerns of this country were so complicated
and so multiplied, that any attempt to
carry such a measure into effect would
tend to cramp and depress the energies of
the country. He was ready to take his
stand by whathad occurred in our foreign
trade; but he would fortify himself by
proofs of an increase also in our home
consumption. The returns which he had
procured were from the Forth and Clyde
canals, from the duke of Bridgewater's
Canal, from the Grand Junction Canal,
from the Kennet and Avon, and from the
.erkeley and Gloucester Canals, In the

year 1820, the amount of tons on the
Forth and Clyde Canal was three thou-
sand two hundred and ninety; in the year
1821, four thousand and twenty-eight;
in 1822, four thousand four hundred and
sixty; in 1823, four thousand eight hun-
dred and seventy-four; in 1824, four
thousand eight hundred and seventy-four;
in 1825, five thousand eight hundred and
four; in 1826, five thousand seven hun-
dred and fifty-eight; in 1827, five thou-
sand eight hundred and eighteen; and,
in 1828 (the last year to which the ac-
counts were made up,) five thousand nine
hundred and seventy. Thus, in the year
1828, the amount of tons was five thou-
sand nine hundred and seventy, while the
average of the eight preceding years was
four thousand eight hundred and forty-
three, giving an increase in the year 1828
to the amount of one thousand tons upon
this canal. Upon all the other canals a
similar progressive increase had taken
place in their business, from the year
1819 till the year 1828. On the duke of
Bridgewater's canal, in the year ending
the 1st of January, 1830, the average
amount of tonnage was one thousand five
hundred and eighty-six, while, in the year
1829, the average was one thousand one
hundred and fourteen ; so that it appear-
ed that the average amount of tonnage on
that canal for the last year exceeded that
of the former year by nearly five hundred
tons. It might here be said that though
the tonnage had increased, the tonnage
duties had not. Now he had expressly
inquired as to the amount of duties re-
ceived, and this was the result. Upon the
Grand Junction Canal, the average amount
of the tonnage duties received for the
eight preceding years was 8,6061., last
year the average had risen to 9,0001.
On the Grand Trunk Canal, the average
of the eight preceding years was 8,0011.
last year it had risen to 14,0491. Upon
the Kennet and Avon the average for the
same period was 1,6991., last year it
amounted to 2,1901. The average
amount of tonnage duties upon the river
Avon for the same period was 1,5471.;
last year it had mounted to 1,7061. The
average amount upon the Berkeley and
Gloucester Canal for the seven years pre-
ceding 1828, was 1,0691. It had in-
creased in 1828 to 2,2351.; and last year,
to 2,3601. Here, on this canal, the
average was more than doubled in the
course of two years, These facts should

Address on the


55 Address on the Lords

[ LORDS, ] Commissioners Speech.

ceiving the support of those who were not danger to the country, of which the wel-
connected with the government, and in fare must be destroyed, and of which the
which he would be entitled to the support tranquillity might be disturbed by a con-
of every person both in and out of parlia- tinuance of the distress which is now suf-
ment to the last farthing which he should fered.
propose to reduce consistent with the STANHOPE,
safety of the country. This was a subject RICHMoND (for the 1st and
upon which men of every party and every 3rd reasons.)
theory were united; without waiting,
therefore, for any of those other remedies HOUSE OF COMMONS.
which might be proposed, let him continue H E O CS.
the reformation already begun in the pub- Thursday, Feb. 4.
lie expenditure, and he would receive more MINUTEs.] The House met at two o'clock; and after having
credit with the country than from any been summoned to attend in the House of Lords, and pre-
other measure whatsoever. With respect viously to reading the Copy of the Lords Commissioners
Speech, the Speaker acquainted the House, that he had
to Ireland, he wished the House had heard issued warrants for new writs, for EYE, in the room of Sir
from high authority that the great mea- Miles Nightingall, deceased: for SOUTHAMPTON, in the
sure, adopted in he last session of parlia- oom of Wm. Chamberlayne, esq. deceased: LIMERICK
CouNrY, in the room of Thomas Lloyd, esq. deceased.
ment, had been attended with that degree The marq. of Douno, for Aldeburgh: PHILIP CHARLES
of successwhich, notwithstanding that dis- SmnEY, esq. for Eye: DANIEL O'CONNELL,* esq. for
tress prevailed, had still been productive Clare: GEORGE BANKES, esq. for Corfe Castle: Sir JAMES
SCARLETT, for Peterborough: and Sir Eow. BURTEN-
of most happy consequences in that part SHAW SuGDEN, for Weymouth: then took the oaths and
of the United Kingdom. their seats.
On the question whether the words pro- ROwLAND STEPHENSON.-The Speaker then acquainted
posed to e left out should stand prt of the House, that he had received a letter from Mr. James
ed to be ft t should stand part f Bourdillon, solicitor to the estate of Rowland Stephenson,
the original motion, the numbers were- esq., a bankrupt, inclosing a certificate of the commission-
Content 71; Not Content 9; Majority ers under the Commission issued against the said Rowland
Stephenson; and the said letter was read; and is as fol-
against the Amendment 62. lows:-

List of the Minority against the Address.
Dukes. Tankerville,
Cumberland, Winchilsea,
Richmond, Radnor.
Newcastle. Lords.
Earls. Rivers,
Stanhope, Northwich.

following protest was entered in their Lord-
ships Journal next day: -
DISSENTIENT.-1. Because it is the
bounden duty of parliament to examine
the causes of public distress, and, as far as
may be in its power, to administer speedy
and effectual relief.
2. Because the grievous distress which
now affects the country in many branches
of productive industry, appears to be the
result of legislative measures, and might,
therefore, be relieved, if not altogether re-
moved, by a different course of policy,
particularly with respect to the currency,
as the alteration in its value has greatly
increased the weight of all the public bur-
thens, and of all the private engagements
which existed previously to that altera-
3. Because the relief which ought to be
administered cannot be delayed without
injury and injustice, and also without

Bread Street, 19th Jan. 1830.
Sir;-As solicitor to the estate of Mr. Rowland Stephenson,
a bankrupt, I am directed by the commissioners under the
commission issued against him, to transmit to you their
certificate of the issuing of such commission; and that Mr.
Rowland Stephenson has not paid his creditors, although
twelve calendar months have elapsed since the issuing of the
said commission, and that the same has not been superseded.
I have the honour to be, &e. J. BOURDILLoN.
To the Speaker of the House of Commons.
Then the certificate was read; and is as follows;
To the Right Hon. the Speaker, &c. &e.
At the Court of Commissioners of Bankrupts, in Basinghall
Street, London, the 19th day of Jan. 1830.
We whose names are hereunto subscribed, being the major
part of the commissioners named and authorised in and
by a commission of bankrupt awarded and issued against
Lombard Street, in the city of London, bankers and
copartners, do hereby certify, that a commission of bank-
rupt under the Great Seal of the United Kingdom of Great
Britain and Ireland, grounded upon statute made and
now in force concerning bankrupts, bearing date at West-
minster the thirty-first day of December, one thousand
eight hundred and twenty-eight, hath been awarded and
issued against the said ROWLAND STEPHENSON, together
TON, and JOSEPH PETTY TOULMIN, directed to us, and
also to John Beames and Henry John Shepherd, esqs., as
commissioners, to execute the same; and that the said
ROWLAND STEPHENSON, (together with the said War.
M. O'CONNELL took the Oath (at the left side of the
table), and then shook hands with the Speaker. He
afterwards seated himself in Mr. Hume's place and
shook hands, and entered into conversation with sir F.
Burdett. Very few members were present at the time.
The other members took the oaths and their seat, but
they were t the right side of the table, the usual

io0 Address on the

induce the House to pause before it sanc-
tioned the statement that universal irre-
mediable distress prevailed throughout the
country. These facts applied to England;
but let the House recollect, that if any
part of England, Scotland, or Ireland
should be proved not to have been subject
to the depression spoken of, the statement
of the hon. baronet must fall to the
ground. Now, with regard to Ireland, an
hon. gentleman said, that great distress
prevailed in the city of Dublin. He was
ready to admit that distress did exist in
the Liberties of that city, but as long as
he had been acquainted with Ireland he
never knew a period when the manufac-
turers in that irreclaimable part of Dublin
were not in distress,-so much so, that
scarcely a year passed without appeals
being made on their behalf to the charity
of the public. No doubt distress prevail-
ed in Ireland, and God grant that some
measure might be devised to remedy it;
but was there any proof before the House,
that the agricultural interests of Ireland
were suffering under universal distress
and depression? Could it be said that
universal distress existed amongst the
agriculturists of Scotland? He doubt-
ed that such was the fact, and before
the House asserted it, he would call
upon it to employ due precaution in form-
ing its opinion. He would maintain that
the Address, in answer to the Speech,
gave a truer description of the state of
the country than the amendment propos-
ed by the hon. baronet. It was perfectly
consistent, on the part of his majesty's
ministers, while they felt sincere sympa-
thy for the distress which did exist, to be
extremely cautious as to the adoption of
rash experiments with a view to its alle-
viation. [hear] The distress which did
exist had originated in causes over which
government had no control; and it should
be borne in mind, that it was not exclu-
sively confined to the dominions of his
majesty. The agricultural interests had
also experienced similar depression in
America, and in other countries. In
France, for instance, the distress had
been in many places as severe as in any
part of this country. In parts of the
United States, the distress had been equal-
ly as great as with us. In Russia, at this
moment, a proclamation had been issued
for lowering the rate of interest, with a
view to remedy the agricultural distress
prevailing there; therefore the causes

whatever they might be, which had ope-
rated to produce this distress were not
confined to this country. Great weight
was certainly due to the effects produced
by unfavourable seasons. He believed
that the expense incurred by the agricul-
tural interest, both in cultivating the soil,
and collecting the harvest, had never been
so great as in the last two years, owing to
the extreme wetness of the seasons. That
was sufficient to account in some degree
for the depression experienced by the agri-
cultural interest; and, besides, he did not
think that due weight had been assigned
to the effect of the importations from
Ireland. That was a cause beyond re-
medy or control. Ireland was fairly en-
titled to a free access to the markets of
this country, and no man would be mad
enough to propose to restrict the importa-
tions from that country. He held in his
hand an account of the amount of impor-
tations from Ireland into the port of
Liverpool during the last year. During
that period there had been imported into
Liverpool from Ireland, forty-nine thou-
sand oxen, thirteen thousand calves,
eighteen thousand pigs, one hundred and
eleven thousand sheep, one thousand
three hundred lambs; and the total value
of agricultural produce thus imported
amounted to 1,270,0001. exclusive of corn.
[hear] It was impossible to deny that
such immense importations from Ireland
had the effect of depressing the agricul-
tural interests of this country. The
same argument applied to Scotland.
The Crown, he therefore conceived, was
quite justified in entreating the House to
use extreme caution before it should at-
tempt to remedy, by legislative interfer-
ence, the distress that existed. The mi-
nisters had been taunted as if they were
influenced by a species of false pride, as if
they were so determined to adhere to de-
clarations formerly made respecting the
currency, as blindly to close their eyes to
the real distresses of the country. It
was said, that they were afraid to expose
themselves to the charge of inconsistency,
and this followed close upon the charge
which had been made against them from
the same quarter last session, when they
were accused of departing from those
principles to which they stood pledged, in
bringing forward a measure which they
had uniformly opposed. It was then
said, that they were actuated by a cor-
rupt desire to maintain themselves in office,

King's Speech.

[F'B. 4.]

king's Speech. 112

and the charge now was, that they were
so wilfully and perversely determined to
adhere to the present currency system,
that they would hear of no change in it
whatever. Now he would say upon this
occasion, as he did when assailed by a
contrary charge last session, that he was
ready to abandon his opinions respecting
the currency, to which he was supposed
to be so unalterably pledged, if he could
bring himself to believe that his so doing
would be productive of any real and per-
manent benefit to the interests of the
country. [hear] It was no imputation on
the part of a public man to recede from
opinions which he had maintained, when
he found others better adapted to the cir-
cumstances of the country. From his ex-
perience of public life, he was never more
convinced of any thing than of the arro-
gance of binding one's-self to any set of
opinions respecting matters of this nature.
[hear] To him it appeared much better
to act upon the principle avowed by the
hon. baronet who had proposed the
amendment, and to look. at every mea-
sure solely in reference to its merits, unin-
fluenced by the ties of any party, or by
any preconceived opinions on the subject.
He was ready to adopt that principle; he
should be always ready to abandon opi-
nions when proved to be wrong: and, on
the contrary he should always support
those which he conceived to be right.
As he said before, he could not see any
change of opinions on the part of a public-
man in receding from those which he had
hitherto maintained when the interests of
the country called upon him to do so. Now,
with regard to the currency, after the best
deliberation which his majesty's ministers
could give to the subject, they were de-
termined to adhere to the present system,
being convinced that if any error had
been committed in establishing that sys-
tem, we should only be exposed to still
greater evils than those we had suffered by
again doing any thing to unsettle the
currency of the country. [hear] His ma-
jesty's ministers were not indifferent to
the distress in the country; they did not
deny that distress existed, they were not
wanting in sympathy on account of its ex-
istence, nor in a sincere desire for its
alleviation; but at the same time they
were determined to adhere to a cautious
policy in dealing with it. He would
warn the House to beware of making rash
experiments. It was because his majes.

ty's ministers believed that any rash expe-
riment with the currency would, while it
might possibly give some immediate bene-
fit, only be productive of more permanent
evils than those from which we had been
relieved, that they had come to the deter-
mination of maintaining the present sys-
tem, and exposing themselves to whatever
obloquy might be attached to the course
which they had resolved to pursue.
[hear, hear]
Lord Althorp said, he admitted that the
present administration had done more
good for the country than any other go-
vernment that had preceded it; but having
stated that as his opinion, he, at the same
time, claimed his right generally to exer-
cise his judgment in reference to any
measures which they might introduce, and
to object to, or oppose, any thing emanat-
ing from them as he might think proper.
He had come down to the House that
evening to hear the Speech from the
throne, and he could not conceal his sur-
prise at hearing the assertion contained in
it, that distress existed in some parts
of the United Kingdom." His impression
was, that the distress existed throughout
the country. He should feel great satis-
faction in hearing that he was mistaken in
that opinion; he should feel still greater
if that statement of the Speech were prov-
ed to be correct. [hear] The hon. ba-
ronet's amendment stated, that the dis-
tress existed universally. His noble
friend, who moved the Address, stated, in
opposition to the Speech, that the distress
was general; and the hon. gentleman who
seconded it made a somewhat similar
admission. Until the chancellor of the
Exchequer rose, no contradiction was
given to the statement as to the uni-
versality of the distress, and that right
hon. gentleman said that it did not exist
in Ireland. But the hon. member for
Clare stated that there was distress in
Dublin-that he knew distress existed in
Leinster, Connaught, and Munster, and
that he heard it had extended to Ulster.
To that assertion no contradiction had
been given by any hon. gentleman from
Ireland. He had, therefore, waited anx-
iously to hear what the right hon. gentle-
man opposite had to say, as he hoped he
would produce some facts to induce him
(Lord Althorp) not to vote, as he was
conscientiously determined to do, for the
amendment. But no such facts had been
stated by the right hon, gentleman; and


Address on the

King's Speech. 114

under these circumstances he (lord Al-
thorp) though unwilling to give a vote
that might have the appearance of joining
those who opposed his majesty's govern-
ment for carrying a measure that he (lord
Althtrp) strongly approved of, [cries of
"no, no," from Sir Edward Knatchbull and
others,] he felt it his duty to vote for the
Mr. W. Whitmore.-Though hebelieved
the distress to be general, and whatever re-
luctance he might have to adopt the state-
ment in the address on that subject, yet as
he was not prepared to go the length of
those who proposed the amendment, he
should vote against it.
Lord Howick said, he conceived that the
statement in the Speech and the Address
undervalued the distress which he was
convinced extended generally throughout
the country. The facts which the right
hon. gentleman opposite (Mr. Peel) had
mentioned might be metby the statement,
which he believed was the case, that many
of the operations of our internal trade
were carried on at a loss. But while he
(lord Howick) regretted to see such a state-
ment in the Speech, as he knew that the
distress was general, he could not concur
in the amendment proposed by the hon.
baronet. He was anxious to wait to see
what would be done or proposed by the
government. He condemned the system
of referring to a committee, consisting of
twenty-three gentlemen of that House, the
task of examining into every branch of our
enormous establishments. It was in his
opinion absurd, and likely to end as it had
ended, in disappointment. The Address
did not pledge hon. members.
Lord F. LevesonGower said, he mustcon-
tend that the terms of his majesty's Speech
had not been treated fairly in the amend-
ment proposed by the hon. baronet. In
his opinion the terms of his majesty's
Speech, as far as they had reference to Ire-
land, were even more logically true than
the terms of the hon. baronet's amend-
ment. He thought too that unjust ad-
vantage had been taken of the speech of
his right hon. friend the chancellor of the
Exchequer. His right hon. friend had
not said that there was no distress in Ire-
land. He should like to see the man who
would venture to say that there ever had
been a period from the time of bishop
Boulter, down to the present, in which no
distress existed in Ireland. [hear] If he
had understood his right hon, friend

rightly, he had only spoken of the non-
existence of distress among the agricul-
tural classes in Ireland. It was likewise
true that distress existed among the ma-
nufacturing population of the Liberties in
Dublin-but when had it been otherwise
since the days of lord Chesterfield ? The
noble member for Northamptonshire said
that no gentleman from Ireland had risen
to deny the statements as to distress in
Ireland. He would not take upon him-
self to say that there was no distress in
that country; but he would take upon
himself to deny that it was universal. In
reference to the complaint which had been
made, that there was, in the royal Speech
an omission of all opinion respecting the
existing state of Ireland, he had only to
say, that, in his opinion, there was in that
royal silence more eloquence than if his
majesty had entered into lengthened dis-
cussion of the benefits which had been de-
rived, far beyond all expectation, from
the measure of last session. [cheers] To
that measure the country owed this ad-
vantage, that if distress did exist in Ire-
land, it was distress without those moral
evils and disquietudes which had too
often previously attended it. [hear] What-
ever might be the event of this motion,
which was evidently made with the inten-
tion of unseating the government, in office
or out of office it would always be to him
a consolation to have lent his feeble aid to
a measure which had been attended with
such complete success. [hear, hear]
Mr. W. Smith said, it was his intention to
support the original Address; though he
was of opinion that the distress of the
country was more general than any one
would imagine from reading the words of
the royal Speech which stated it to be con-
fined to some parts of the United King-
dom. He opposed the amendment, be-
cause it found verbal fault with the Ad-
dress, in order to displace an administra-
tion, for which the movers of the amend-
ment wished to substitute another not
near so advantageous to the country.
[hear, hear] He could not separate this
session from the last; and considering
the unmeasured warmth and violence
with which some gentlemen had then at-
tacked the ministry, and the course which
they were now again pursuing for the
attainment of the same object, he could
not help marvelling how it was, that they
had not cooled themselves down a little
during their residence in the country,

113 Address on the

[ FEB. 4. ]

115 Address on the

With respect to the distress in Ireland he
had only one word to say. When the
measure of Catholic relief, of which he
had always been a sincere supporter, was
under discussion, it was repeatedly asked
" Will it be a panacea for all her evils ?"
He had never supposed that generations
and ages of bad government, and all the
evils which they had necessarily produced,
could be cured by it instantly, or even in
a single year. The advantage of that
measure was, that with all the distress of
England pressing upon us, we had not the
disquiet and discontent of Ireland to con-
tend with. [hear] It was his intention on
the present occasion to support the mi-
nistry. If giving this vote in their favour
prevented him from giving his vote in
support of any one measure of reform or
retrenchment, he would rather cut off his
hand than give it; but hoping to vote
for reduction to the utmost in the course
of the present session, he still felthimself
at liberty to vote in favour of ministers
against a proposition which made a covert
and not a direct attack upon their con-
Mr. Mildmay supported the Address,
because he considered the amendment
a mere quibble upon words. [hear]
One of his reasons for supporting the Ad-
dress was, that he could not consent to
abandon a ministry which had done so
much for Ireland; [hear] and one of his
reasons for opposing the amendment was,
that he should be sorry to give a vote in
favour of that party which endeavoured to
throw a clog around them when they were
on their march to improvement. [hear]
He was content with the admission of
ministers that there was great distress in
the country; for after making that ad-
mission, they would be guilty of a gross
abandonment of their duty if they did not
exert every means in their power to re-
move it.
Mr. Duncombe said, it was his intention to
support the amendment, because it painted
the distress of the country correctly,which
the Address did not. The right hon. Se-
cretary for the Home Department had
called upon the House not to support the
amendment, until it had further evidence
of the distress which pervaded all classes.
He was at a loss to conceive what evidence
the right hon. gentleman would have, if
he were not content with that which he
had got already. He had the evidence
of the noble lord who moved the Address,

and of the hon. member for the city of
London who seconded it-he had the evi-
dence of two other members for the city of
London- he had the evidence of his right
hon. friend, the member for Liverpool-
he had the evidence of the hon. and learned
member for Clare-in short, he had the
evidence of every man in the House, whose
opinion on such a subject was worth having
-and yet the right hon. gentleman, with
all that evidence, hoped that the House
would not adopt the amendment of his
hon. friend the'member for Kent, without
receiving still more evidence. [hear] If
the right hon. gentleman really required
such evidence, he had it in the various
meetings which had taken place in differ-
ent parts of the country-in the addresses
which had been sent up from various pub-
lic bodies to the head of the government;
and in the petitions which had been agreed
to in every large town in the kingdom, and
which would soon be presented to the con-
sideration of the House. It appeared to
him, that look into whatever quarter of
the country a man might, he could not
fail to find sufficient evidence of the severe
distress which pervaded it from one end of
it to another. [hear] Perhaps the eyes of
the right hon. gentleman were now at
length opened,-for he really was of opi-
nion, that before that night the govern-
ment was not impressed with any idea of
the extent of the prevailing distress. He
therefore thought, that as such was the
case, it should lose no time in entering
into an immediate investigation of the
state of the country. With regard to the
imputations which had been cast on his
motives, and on the motives of those with
whom he acted, he would merely observe,
that he scorned them, and that he would
on all occasions treat them with the con-
tempt which they merited. [hear] He had
no other motive in the course which he
was then pursuing than to discharge his
duty to the best of his poor ability to his
distressed and afflicted countrymen. In
conclusion, he must express a hope that a
system of the most rigorous economy
would be adopted by ministers, and that,
instead of merely reducing the salaries of
subordinate clerks, they would begin with
the reduction of their own incomes.
Mr. Rice said, if he could bring himself
to believe that upon the issue of this debate
the continuance of the present ministers
in office was to depend, so grateful was
be to them for the great benefit which


King's Speechi. 116

they had conferred upon Ireland by ac- particularly to the districts round Liver-
ceding to the measure of last session, that pool and Manchester; and he referred to
he would gladly give them all the assist- an accurate table with which he had been
ance within his feeble power. But that furnished, shewing that between 1825 and
was not the issue which the House had to 1828, both inclusive, the manufacture of
try. The House had simply to decide cotton goods had increased from fifty-
whether the distress of the country was seven millions of yards to ninety-eight
confined to some particular parts of it, or millions of yards. The increase had been
whether it was general throughout the in the following ratio:-
country. If there were any doubt upon 1825 7,000,000 of yards
the point,-and he was afraid that there was 1826 70,000,000
not,-he should support the latter opinion, 1827 96,000,000
because it would at any rate show the 1828 98,000,000
people that their representatives were in- He believed that several other branches of
dined to look upon their sufferings with manufacture were also in a much more
an eye of sympathy. Under his present flourishing condition than had been re-
impressions he was inclined to support the presented.
amendment: but if any country members Mr. R. Palmer said, his knowledge of
would get up and state to the House that the existence of very general distress com-
their constituents were not distressed, he pulled him with great regret to vote for
would immediately give his vote in favour the amendment.
of the original Address. He did not look Mr. Maurice Fitzgerald.-If the sup-
upon this question as one which involved port of the Address could imply that any
a mere quibble about words-he consider- inquiry into the existing state of distress
ed it as a question of far deeper import- were denied, or even not likely to be in-
ance. His hon. friend had intimated that quired into, by the government or that
he could not agree to this amendment, House, he would evince a readiness to
because it came from, and was supported entertain the Amendment; but when he
by, a party with whom he was not in the thought the contrary was the fact, he could
habit of acting. With all deference to not bring himself to the same conclusion
his hon. friend, that was a principle upon as his hon. friends near him. Respecting
which he, as a public man, could never the omission of Ireland in the Address, he
consent to act. Upon political subjects wished to give a hint to the hon. member
he generally differed from the hon. baronet for Clare, an old debater in public life
who had moved the amendment, but he elsewhere, though young in that House;
should indeed be ashamed of himself if and it was to caution him against afford-
that general difference of opinion should ing his prompt assistance to the hon.
lead him to dissent from any useful and sa- members for whom he had this night ten-
lutary proposition which the hon. baronet dered his vote. There was certainly great
might bring forward. He should regret distress in Ireland, but nothing equal to
that his vote on this occasion was mis- the extent in which it pervaded England.
taken; he gave it to the influence of truth, Let his hon. friend therefore take care how
inhiscomparative examination of two pro- he gave his support to men, under the
positions which were before him. He be- notion that he was serving Ireland, who
lived, indeed, that the distress, although might hereafter turn round and object to
pressing hard upon parts of Ireland, was the importation of Irish produce, which
less there than it was found, generally ought to have as free an admission into
speaking, in England. Enough was, how- the English market as that of Scotland, or
ever, apparent in the state of both coun- of the counties of England, and propose
tries to call for sympathy, and he felt him- their measures of poor-laws, or others of a
self, therefore, under the necessity of similar nature, for the sister kingdom.
votingfor that declaratory resolution which Colonel Wood said, he should vote in fa-
was more expressive of the degree of dis- vour of the Address, which had described
tress he believed to exist in the com- the prevailing distress, but had not en-
munity. courage exaggerated estimates of it,
Lord Tullamore said, he was satisfied, while it left every thing open for fair and
from personal observationand documentary distinct consideration. He entreated the
evidence, that the representations regard- House to consider what the impression
ing distress were exaggerated; he alluded would be of sending forth to the public

117 Address on the

[FEB. 4.]

King's Speech.

119 Address on the

an amendment of the kind proposed, the
supporters of which did not agree in any
single view of what was necessary for the
ultimate attainment of their own object.
Mr. Brougham.-I only rise to state in
a few words my reasons for voting for the
Amendment, and thereby to guard myself
against misconstruction. I feel great re-
gret, and I say it most unfeignedly, at the
course I am obliged to take; and I may
say with the hon. member for Northamp-
tonshire (lord Althorp), that I never came
into the House with less expectation of
being driven to vote for an Amendment
than this night. If I could persuade my-
self that the difference between the Address
and the Amendment was only a matter of
words and form, and not of important
sense and substance, in the present state
of the country I should unhesitatingly
have supported the Address. I deplore
extremely the expressions which ministers
have thought fit to introduce into the
king's Speech. Whether they were or
were not aware of it at the time it was
framed I know not ; but I can only ask
myself this question--In what sense
will these words be taken by the suffering,
the deeply suffering, people of this em-
pire [hear] Is it possible that they
can put more than one meaning upon
them; and what is that meaning? That
the distress is admitted by the government
to a certain degree; but that, after all, it
amounts to very little; for the king is
made to say only that he regrets the dis-
tress prevailing among the agricultural and
manufacturing classes in some parts of the
country. In plain common sense, this is
the meaning of those words ; there may
be distress, but there is not much of it.
I, for one, cannot bring myself to sanction
such a statement by my vote; and when,
by a debate in this House, the question
has arisen and it is put to me, will you
vote for that which is a misrepresentation,
or will you support that which comes much
nearer the truth," I cannot hesitate, though
my vote is wrung from me most reluctantly.
The intention with which this Amendment
has been brought forward, has been dis-
tinctly disavowed by the hon. baronet, the
member for Kent; but whatever might be
his intention, or the intention of those
who have supported him, even if I thought
that its tendency was to displace the pre-
sent government, I protest that at all events
I would vote against it. [hear, hear] I
should vote eaainst the Amendment equally

if I could believe that it tended in the
slightest degree to pledge me to a single
step towards that line of policy which it is
understood many of those who favour the
Amendment are inclined to pursue. I
mean as to rescinding our decisions on
questions of commercial policy, and, above
all, tampering with the currency. If I
could dream that the vote I am about, so
painfully to myself, to give, which is lite-
rally extorted from me, would have the
slightest tendency to pledge me to either
of those courses, bad as the alternative
would be, I would prefer voting for the
Address. I shall detain the House no
longer than once more to state, that I
never in my life gave a vote with greater
regret than on the present occasion.
Question put, That those words (sir
E. Knatchbull's Amendment) be inserted."
The House divided: the numbers were,
Ayes 105; Noes 158: Majority against
the Amendment 53.
List of the Minority.
Althorp, viscount Howard, H.
Attwood, W. Harvey, D. W.
Blandford, marquis of Heathcote, sir W.
Beaumont, T. W. IIuskisson, rt. hon. W.
Baring, sir T. Inglis, sir R. H.
Brownlow, C. Knatchbull, sir E.
Bastard, E. P. Kemp, T. R.
Burdett, sir F. King, hon. gen.
Bankes, H. Lamb, hon. G.
Bankes, W. Lushington, Dr.
Bernal, R. Labouchere, H.
Bright, H. Lester, B.
Bentinck, lord G. Langston, J. H.
Brougham, H. Marjoribanks, S.
Baring, F. Macdonald, sir J.
Cripps, J. Morpeth, viscount
Calvert, N. Mundy, F.
Calvert, C. Mackintosh,rt.hn.sirJ.
Cavendish, W. Marshall, J.
Clinton, F. Maberly, J.
Canning, rt. hn. sir S. Normanby, viscount
Carter, J. Bonham Norton, G.
Dawkins, H. Osborne, lord F. W.
Duncombe, hon. W. O'Connell, D.
Duncombe, T. Ord, W.
Davenport, E. Palmer, R.
Dick, Q. Pallmer, C. N.
Denison, J. E. Palmer, F.
Encombe, viscount Palmerston, viscount
Fergusson, R. C. Phillimore, Dr.
Fazakerley, J. N. Peachy, general
Fyler, T. B. Protheroe, E.
Fane, J. Russell, lord J.
Grant, rt. hon. C. Rice, S.
Grant, R. Robarts, A. W.
Gascoyne, R. general Rickford, W.
Gordon, K. Robinson, G.
Guest, J. J, Sefton, earl of
Graham, sir J, G. C. Scott, hon. W.


Kingg's Speech. 120

[ FEB. 4. ] Lords Commissioners Speech. 122

Smith, S. Wodehouse, E.
Smith, A. Warrender, sir G.
Smith, hon. R. Wall, C. B.
Stanley, hon. E. G. Wyvill, M.
Seabright, sir J. Wood, ald.
Sadler, M. T. Wood, C.
Trant, W. H. Wetherell, sir C.
Thomson, C. P. Wells, J.
Trevor, hon. R. Westenra, hon. R.
Tynte, C. K. K. Whitbread, W. H.
Tennyson, C. Western, C. C.
Uxbridge, earl of Wilson, sir R. T.
Vivian, sir R. R. Waithman, aid.
The main question was then put and
agreed to, and the following Committee
appointed to draw up an Address to be
presented to his Majesty upon the said
Resolution: "-The Earl of Darlington,
Mr. Ward, Mr. Chancellor of the Exche-
quer, Mr. Secretary Peel, Mr. Courtenay,
Lord Leveson Gower, Sir George Clerk,
Mr. Attorney General, Mr. Solicitor
General, Mr. Dawson, Mr. Planta, Sir
Alexander Grant, or any five of them.

The ADDRESS upon the Lords Com-
missioners Speech.] The following is an
official copy of the Address referred to in
page 7.
Die Jovis, 4 Februarii 1830.
Most Gracious Sovereign ;
WE, Your Majesty's most dutiful and
loyal Subjects, the Lords Spiritual and
Temporal, in Parliament assembled, beg
leave to approach Your Majesty, to re-
turn to Your Majesty our most humble
Thanks for the Gracious Speech which
Your Majesty has directed the Lords Com-
missioners to deliver to both Houses of
WE beg leave to express to Your Ma-
jesty our grateful Acknowledgment of the
Communication, that Your Majesty has
received from all Foreign Powers the
strongest Assurances of their Desire to
maintain and cultivate the most friendly
Relations with this Country.
WE assure Your Majesty that we par-
ticipate in the Satisfaction with which
Your Majesty has seen that the War be-
tween Russia and the Ottoman Porte has
been brought to a Conclusion.
WE offer our humble Thanks to Youi

Majesty for Your unremitted Efforts to
accomplish the main Objects of the Treaty
of the 6th of July 1827.
WE humbly assure Your Majesty of
the sincere Satisfaction with which we
have learned that Your Majesty, having
recently concerted with Your Allies Mea-
sures for the Pacification and final Settle-
ment of Greece, trust that You shall be
enabled, at an early Period, to communi-
cate to Your Parliament the particulars
of this Arrangement, with such Informa-
tion as may explain the Course which
Your Majesty has pursued throughout the
Progress of these important Transactions.
WE cannot but express our Concern
that Your Majesty is unable to announce
the Prospect of a Reconciliation between
the Princes of the House of Braganza.
WE thank Your Majesty for the Com-
munication, that You have not yet deemed
it expedient to re-establish, upon their
ancient Footing, Your Majesty's Diplo-
matic Relations with the Kingdom of Por-
tugal; and to express our grateful Sense
of the Assurance, that the numerous Em-
barrassments arising from the continued
Interruption of those Relations increase
Your Majesty's Desire to effect the ter-
mination of so serious an Evil.
WE offer to Your Majesty our humble
Thanks for having acquainted us, that
Your Majesty's Attention has been of late
earnestly directed to the various important
Considerations connected with Improve-
ments in the general Administration of
the Law; and for the Directions which
Your Majesty has been graciously pleased
to give, that measures shall be submitted
to the Deliberation of Parliament, of
which some are calculated, in the Opinion
of Your Majesty, to facilitate and expedite,
the Course of Justice in different Parts
of the United Kingdom, and others
appear to be necessary Preliminaries. to
a Revision of the Practice and Proceed-
ings of the Superior Courts.
WE assure Your Majesty that we are
impressed with a due Sense of the Confi-

121 The Address ypon the

123 The Address upon the [COMMONS,] Lords Commissioners Speech. 124

dence Your Majesty justly reposes in us,
that we will give our best Attention and
Assistance to Subjects of such deep and
lasting Concern to the Well-being of Your
Majesty's People.
WE desire to express the Satisfaction
with which we have received the Informa-
tion which Your Majesty has commanded
to be given to us, that the Export in the
last Year of British Produce and Manu-
factures has exceeded that of any former
Year; and to assure Your Majesty that
we deeply lament that, notwithstanding
this Indication of active Commerce, Dis-
tress should prevail among the Agricul-
tural and Manufacturing Classes of some
Parts of the United Kingdom.
WE assure Your Majesty of our sincere
Belief that it would be highly gratifying
to the paternal Feelings of Your Majesty
tq be enabled to propose for the Con-
sideration of Parliament, Measures cal-
culated to remove the Difficulties of any
portion of Your Subjects, and at the same
time compatible with the general and per-
manent Interests of Your People.
WE beg leave to offer to Your Majesty
our humble Thanks for the deep Solicitude
Your Majesty feels for those Interests,
and to express our Conviction of the Ne-
cessity with which Your Majesty is im-
pressed of acting with extreme Caution in
reference to this important Subject.
WE assure Your Majesty that we shall
concur with Your Majesty in assigning its
due Weight to the Effect of unfavorable
Seasons, and the Operationof other Causes
which are beyond the Reach of Legislative
Control or Remedy.
WE offer the Assurance of our Grati-
tude for the Conviction Your Majesty is
graciously pleased to express, that no
Pressure of temporary Difficulty will in-
duce this House to relax the Determina-
tion it has constantly manifested to main-
tain Public Credit inviolate, and thus
to uphold the high Character and the per-
manent Welfare of the Country.


On Monday following was presented
His Majesty's most gracious Answer :-
My Lords; I thank you for your loyal
and dutiful Address.-I rely with just
Confidence on your zealous Co-operation
in all Measures calculated to improve the
Condition of My Subjects, and to main-
tain the Honour and high Character of
the Country.

Friday, February 5.
MINUTES.] JAMrE BARLOW HAY, Esq. took the Oaths and
his Seat for Southampton.-Mr. D. W. HARVEY gave
notice, that on the 25th February he should move for a
Committee on the Crown Revenues, and the means of
rendering them most available to the exigencies of the
country.-The Solicitor General moved for a return of
the several persons who were confined for contempt under
process issuing out of the Courts of Chancery and Ex-
chequer," on the 7th March 1827 (the date of the last
return made by order of this House); and also, of those
who have been committed since that period; stating what
persons have died, or been discharged from their con-
tempts, since the said 7th March 1827, and how many now
remain in custody for contempt-ordered.

TER.] Mr. S. Rice presented a petition
from Mr. V. Hunt, Mayor of Limerick, and
Chairman of a meeting of the Freemen,
Freeholders, and Inhabitants of the
County of the City of Limerick, against
a renewal of the East India Charter.-
Having stated the object of the petition,
he said he would take that opportunity to
put a question to his hon. and learned
friend opposite (Mr. G. Bankes), who had,
at least till a late period, been connected
with the administration of the affairs of
India. The subject to which he was about
to allude Was of such an important nature,
that it was highly necessary that the public
and parliament should know what answer
his learned friend would give-if he were
to give any answer-to the question which
he was about to propose, relative to a
matter that was certainly deserving of
explanation. A letter had recently ap-
peared in the public prints of this country,"

The following is the Letter alluded to, as
it appeared in The Times London journal:
India Board, Feb. 21.
Sir,-I had not intended to write to you
until I could communicate to you the opinion
of the law-officers of the Crown upon the
difference which appears to have taken place
between you and the Supreme Court of Bom-
bay ; but the Chaiq have just informed me

125 East India Charter

which was stated to have been received by
an official individual in India, from the
noble President of the Board of Control,
and which letter contained statements of

that they wrote to you by a vessel which sails
to-day, and I am unwilling that you should
not receive a letter from me at the same time.
I believe there is but one opinion in this
country as to the conduct of the Supreme Court.
Theirlawis considered bad law; but then errors
in matters of law are nothing in comparison
with those they have committed in the tenour
of their speeches from the bench. Had sir C.
Chambers lived, I think he must have been
displaced. Sir J. Grant seems to have con-
fined himself more strictly to a legal argument.
He may have been led by his erring chief:
still there is much to censure in his conduct,
and although I think it will probably not be
considered necessary to recall him, his case is
by no means decided upon. I am to have some
conversation upon it with the Chancellor in a
few days. We are so much occupied with our
Roman Catholic Relief-bill at present, that we
have little time for other matters, however im-
portant: to this circumstance must be attri-
buted the delay which has occurred on the part
of the law-officers. There was none in sending
the case to them. In the mean time the King
has, on my recommendation, made your Ad-
vocate-general, Mr. Dewar, Chief Justice.
I advised this appointment because that
gentleman appears to have shown ability and
discretion during the late conflict with the
Supreme Court, and because he appears to
take a right view of the law, and to be on terms
of confidence with you.
I thought the putting him over sir J.
Grant's head would do more to notify public
opinion than any other measure Icould at once
adopt; and you have him in action two months
sooner than you could have any other sent
from here. I hope this arrangement will be
satisfactory to you.
The Puisne Judge appointed in the room
of sir C. Chambers, is Mr. William Seymour,
of the Chancery bar. The Lord Chancellor
has a very good opinion of him, and generally,
I think, he appeared to have higher claims than
any other candidate. He is a gentleman in
his manners, and a man of cultivated mind.
He seems to have right notions of his duty, and
of the law which has been so strangely misin-
terpreted. Hewill rather support Government
than use the authority of the Supreme Court as
a means of raising opposition. At least, if he
is not all this, I have been deceived in him.
He will embark in less than two months. He
will probably be knighted before he sails; and
as it will not be right that the Chief Justice
alone should not be knighted, we must consider
in what manner that can be best effected. I
believe it may be done by patent; but my
present idea is to empower you, as Governor,
to confer the honour of knighthood on Mr.
Dewar. This will evidently place the Governor

the utmost importance respecting the ad-
ministration of justice in India, and the
intentions of his majesty's government
with regard to the renewal of the East

above the Court. It will mark you out as the
King's representative: you may make the
ceremony as imposing as you please. I have
written to the Heralds'-office to know if the
thing could be done according to precedents.
It is as yet undecided, the law-officers not
having as yet given their opinion as to the law,
whether a declaratory act will be required.
Perhaps the opinions of the law-officers, and
those which I may obtain of the Lord Chan-
cellor and the Lord Chief Justice, may be
sufficient to induce sir J. Grant to revise his
notions of law. At any rate, no more mischief
can happen, as he will be like a wild elephant
led away between two tame ones.
As we may not impossibly renew the
Charter next year, we may take that opportu-
nity of rectifying the expressions of the act of
Parliament, should they require it. Many
persons think it would be inexpedient to open
a discussion on Indian matters this year, if it
could be avoided. But, as I tell you, no deci-
sion is yet come to.
You will see that there is no intention of
deserting you. You have acted with much
firmness and prudence. I entirely agree in the
view you have expressed of the dangerous con-
sequences which would result from the ex-
tension beyond the limits of the Precedency of
the powers claimed by the Supreme Court.
Orders have been given for expediting the
patent of the Chief Judge.
It is with deep regret that I have heard
that the Company and the country are so soon
to lose your services in India. I could not
ask you to stay one hour to the danger of your
valuable life : but I am confident you will stay
till you have re-established the authority of
Government in the opinion of the natives. I
trust, indeed, that the unbending firmness you
have displayed will have prevented much of
the evil which might have been expected to
flow from the conduct of the judges.
I feel satisfied that you will act with the
same firmness under all circumstances, and at
the same time with moderation and discretion.
You may thus depend upon the support of the
Board of Control, which I have the honour of
presiding over. I have, &c.
Sir J. Malcolm, G.C.B.
I am going to send you a very excellent
new Bishop, whenever Dr. James resigns-Mr.
J. M. Turner. The Archbishop of Canterbury,
the Bishop of London, and indeed all the
Bishops I have seen, are quite satisfied that
Mr. Turner is as fit a man as could have been
selected. He will be mild and firm. He is a
very good and pious man, without v ..1Jly
notions, and really devoted to his high calling.

a~nd Judicatulre. 126

[FEB. 5.1

India Company's charter. He would not such a letter, taking it to be genuine, was,
more particularly advert to the letter, but forcibly calculated to give rise to doubts
he had said enough, he conceived, to indi- as to the capacity of the writer of such a.
cate to the hon. gentleman the letter to letter for the situation of important trust
which he alluded. Now, the question which he at present filled. [hear, hear]
which lie wished to put was, whether or He could not avoid entering his protest
not that letter was genuine, and if it were against the jurisdiction which appeared to
genuine, whether there would be any be assumed by the writer of that letter over
difficulty in laying a copy of it before the independence of the judicial order in,
Parliament? India. He should not enter further at
Mr. G. Bankes said, he felt no hesitation present into this discussion, but would
whatever in communicating all the infor- simply content himself with expressing his
mation which it was in his power to give regret at reading such a document, and
respecting the letter to which the hon. his surprise that a noble lord at the head
member for Limerick had directed atten- of such an important department con-
tion. He begged to be allowed to say, nected with India could have permitted
that, owing to the circumstance of a himself to indulge in the expression of
melancholy occurrence in the family of the such opinions regarding the judicial office
noble Lord (Ellenborough) alluded to, [the in that country.
recent death of his lordship's son at Wor- Mr. M. A. Taylor.-If the letter were
thing,] he (Mr.Bankes) had not had an op- genuine, it was indeed a most extraordi-
portunity,these many days, of seeing him; nary document, and he had read it with
but he understood from the noble Lord that regret.
the letter in question was written in the Mr. Bankes said, he could only reiterate
shape of a strictly private and confidential the statement he had already made as to
communication from him to the individual the noble lord having no copy of the ori-
to whom it was addressed, and that it was ginal letter in his possession, and his con-
never intended to meet the public eye. sequent inability to state whether or not the
He could state, that while acting as Secre- copy published in the papers was correct.
tary to the India Board, he had never seen It was transmitted as a private confidential
a copy of this letter, and he believed that communication, and it could only have
it was not in the power of the noble lord been through a base violation of confidence
himself to say whether or not the letter that it was ever made public.
which had been published in the papers Mr. Trant said,he could not but strongly
was a correct copy of the private letter he condemn the practice of making docu-
had written to sir John Malcolm. The ments of such a description public. It
fact was, that the noble lord had kept no was calculated altogether to put an end
copy of that letter, as it was a strictly pri- to confidential correspondence between in-
vate and confidential one, and one which dividuals in this country and their friends
was never intended to meet the public eye. in India. He would give no opinion as
Sir John Malcolm had since expressed his to the letter itself, but he would enter
deepest regret that it should have come his protest against founding any public
before the public, and had stated, that a proceeding upon a private letter written in
deliberate and shameful breach of confi- confidence from one gentleman to ani.the;,
dence was the only means by which such and the publication of which could have
a document could have been brought occurred only through a gross violation of
before the public. He had already men- confidence.
tioned that his noble friend was not able Mr. S. Rice said, he knew nothing ofthe
to state whether or not it was a completely manner in which this letter had been made
correct copy of his letter that had ap- public, but seeing it in the public prin's,
peared in the papers of this country, as he he took the liberty of putting the q,(Estiaui
had kept no copy whatever of that letter, to his hon. friend, and he did n.-t think
it being intended as a mere private and he could have asked him a kinder ques-
confidential communication. He was tion, as it afforded him the opportunity for
ready to afford any other information he the explanation he had given, and which
possessed, if the hon. member should wish would have been more satisfactory if ihe
to put any further questions on this could have denied altogether the gruinie-
subject. ness of the letter. Let the disgrace of
Mr. Brought thought theappearance of publishing the letter attach to the indii-

127 Eaist India Charter


and Judicature.'. 2,

129 Bast India Charter

dual by whom it had been made public;
but the letter was now before the public,
and it could only be treated as a public
document. [hear] It was said to be a pri-
vate letter, but what kind of a private
letter was it, that a minister, filling an
important office in this country, thus sends
to a civil and military governor in India,
in which he advises him as to the mode of
dealing with judges, refers to other mat-
ters connected with his government, and
speaks of the renewal of the company's
charter? [hear] Was such a communica-
tion to be viewed in the light of a private
letter between one gentleman and ano-
ther ?
Mr. Humesaid,ifthe doctrine of the hon.
Secretary to the India Board were to be
adopted, we should remain in total igno-
rance of the administration of affairs there,
for a large portion of the business between
this country and India was uniformly
transacted in the way of private commu-
nications either from the heads of the
Board of Control, or the directors of the
East-India company, explaining the way
in which the official individuals were to
act. He had received a copy of this letter
from Calcutta. He believed it had been
published in every newspaper in Bombay,
and thus an opportunity was given to sir
John Malcolm to triumph over the King's
Court there, which no longer could be
considered as affording that protection to
the natives for which it had been estab-
lished. Mr. Dewar, it appeared, was con-
sidered fit to fill the office of judge there
because he would truckleto the government.
Thus the confidence of the natives was
destroyed, and the letter of the noble lord
had spread dismay throughout the whole
of Bombay. The subserviency of two of the
judges, it seems, could now be reckoned
upon; and then, if sir J. Grant should be
refractory, why, according to the noble
lord, no mischief would accrue, for he
would be like a wild elephant, led away
between two tame ones" [loud laughter].
He trusted, that his learned friend below
him (Mr. Brougham) would bring this
subject under the consideration of parlia-
ment. [hear]
Mr.G. Bankes explained.-He had laid
down no doctrine but that to which every
man of right feeling would assent; namely,
that private and confidential letters should
not be violated. The hon. member (Mr.
Hume) had stated, that a copy of the
letter had been forwarded to him from

Calcutta. The letter he (Mr.Bankes)be-
lieved had appeared first in the Calcutta
Journal, and it differed materially from
the copy which had been published in the
London papers, while the noble lord, not
having a copy in his possession, was unable
to say which of these was the more ac-
Lord Ashley would contend that the
letter was a private communication, and
that even supposing the copy published
was a genuine one, it was rather hard that
an individual should be judged according
to what he had written in a hurry and in
private confidence to another. He knew
that no man was more anxious than the
noble lord in question to see a complete
independence preserved to the court in
Bombay, and lie should not, therefore, be
judged by a momentary effusion in a pri-
vate letter.
Mr. Brougham said, whether the letter
was private and confidential or not, it had
all the forms of an official despatch, al-
though the substance of it was certainly
contrary to all the official despatches he
had ever seen. [hear, and a laugh] When
they looked at its contents, could they re-
gard it as a mere private and confidential
letter ? Here was the minister for India
affairs describing to the governor of Bom-
bay the way for insuring the strict depend-
ence of the judges upon him. A subser-
viency to the views of the governor, it
seemed, was to be taken as the rule of
selection of judges for the court there;
and that was stated in a letter, described
as private and confidential, from the Presi-
dent of the India Board to sir John Mal-
colm. He disapproved of the publication
of that letter as much as any one could;
and he by no means meant to attribute
the publication of it to sir John Malcolm;
but he had a suspicion that the publica-
tion was not the act of an enemy to sir
John Malcolm, but rather that of a friend.
He had a suspicion that its publication
might have been brought about in this way
-sir J. Grant might have said, 'depend
upon it, the government in England al-
ways stand by the independence of the
judges, and your case is a bad one.'
'No,' replies the governor, 'you are
wrong, and I'll show you that it is not.'
It was probable that in this way sir J.
Malcolm might have shown the letter to a
friend, and it might in that manner have
got before the public. But whatever blame
attached to the individual who committed

[ FEB. 5. ]

and Judicature. 130

the breach of confidence, that did not at a letter was fitted to fill the office which
all alter the case, or excuse the noble lord he occupied. He thought that the de-
for having written such a letter, fence was a bad one; on such a subject
Mr. Peel.-Different versions had been inconsiderate and joking letters ought not
circulated in India of this letter, which he to be written : whatever the noble lord had
understood were very different from the done, this letter was a strong item against
one published in this country. He had such public service.
asked his noble friend respecting it when Mr. Brougham inquired whether the
the letter was published here. The noble case of sir J. Grant, to which allusion was
lord acknowledged that he had written a made in the letter, was yet decided ?
letter of that description, but he could not Mr. Bankes was not sure whether sir
say whether that was a correct copy of it, J. Grant's case was as yet decided upon.
and it was moreover a letter written Sir J. Mackintosh said, he condemned in
hastily, and inadvertently. He did not the strongest terms the sentiments con-
mean to say, that a public officer had a trained in the letter to which the attention
right to write letters to public functionaries of the House had been directed. He
upon public subjects, and afterwards to could not look upon a letter from the
screen himself from animadversion on the President of the India Board to a governor
plea that his letters were private [hear]. in India, treating on public subjects, as a
In such a case, a public officer might pro- private letter. In writing this letter, the
duce copies of despatches which he had noble lord seemed to forget what was due
transmitted to a colonial functionary, while to his situation. The secret opinions of
at the same time he had given in private those who administered the affairs of India
letters very different instructions to the were, when made known to the public, of
same individual. But the case was dif- the greatest importance to it, because
ferent where a public officer, as in this they displayed the real opinions of those
instance, writes a private letter hastily and who governed the public both in England
inadvertently; and the expression which and in India. He would say that, if the
occurred in this letter as to the wild and noble lord should now come forward, and,
tame elephants was sufficient to show that in a manner which could not be mistaken,
there existed no deliberate intention on and which could not be concealed, dis-
the part of the writer to interfere with the avow the sentiments of that letter, sup-
independence of the judges. In this case, posing it to be genuine, such a disavowal,
no doubt, his noble friend had written a so made and so published, would be, in
hasty letter, and no such inference should his eyes, a great reparation of the original
be drawn from such a letter, as that any fault which he had committed. If he
intention existed on the part of the go- could understand that any thing of that
vernment to control the independence of kind was in contemplation, he should be
the judges in India. [hear] If such a glad to receive it; but it was treating a
construction should be put on his noble matter of first rate importance with far
friend's letter, no man would regret it too much levity, to say merely, that the
more than his noble friend. He was not noble lord had forgotten what he might
prepared to admit that the copy published have said respecting it. Was the charac-
of this letter was a correct one, as there ter of a judge such a trifle in any man's
was no means of ascertaining that at pre- eyes, that he could easily forget what he
sent; but he would only submit, that the had said respecting the mode of that
whole tenor of his noble friend's official judge's performing his high and important
conduct should free him from the charge functions?-Was the administration of
of seeking to lessen the independence of justice to be treated with such scornful
the judicial bench in India. The expres- negligence-was it, in short, to be matter
sion as to the wild and tame elephants of such utter indifference to the noble lord,
was but a hasty and inconsiderate joke that he could write about it with such in-
hazarded in a private letter, and it should considerate haste, as not to be able, at the
not be set against the public tenor of his end of nine months, to recollect even the
noble friend's life. substance of what he had then written ?
Lord J. Russell said, no satisfactory ex- Those stale jests which the letter con-
planation of this matter had been given, trained, about employing a tame elephant
and that the House should consider whe- as a decoy for the wild ones, were not
their the individual who could write such likely to be forgotten soon by the reader,


anld A~dicature. 132

131 ralsttIndia Charter

133 West Indies and the United States. [ FEB. 5.

and were in all probability engraven deep- of the Home Department of great import-
ly in the memory of the writer. It was ance, I trust that he will give me such a
extraordinary that any public functionary reply as will remove the uneasiness which
should have written such a letter; but it exists in England, in Canada, and else-
was still more extraordinary that any pub- where upon the subject. The question is,
lic functionary should say that he could whether any negotiations are now pend-
not recollect whether he had written that ing between the government of England
letter or not. In point of fact, it did ap- and that of the United States, for the pur-
pear to him, that the noble lord, in saying pose of renewing the direct intercourse be-
that he had forgotten what he had written, tween the United States and our colonies
had been guilty of an aggravation of his in the West Indies.
original offence. The tendency of the Mr. Peel.-My answer is, that a corn-
letter was most dangerous. It had struck munication upon that subject has been
a most important blow at the independence received by his majesty's government from
of British Judges in India. the minister of the United States, and
Sir R. H. Inglis.-As it appeared from that that communication is still under
the public newspapers that a terrible do- consideration.
mestic calamity had been inflicted upon
the noble lord within the last few days, MALT DUTIES.] Lord F. Osborne
some indulgence ought to be extended to gave notice that on the 1st May, or as
him, if in the confusion of the moment early as possible after the recess, he should
he had stated that he did not recollect move for a committee of the whole House,
what he had written in a letter which he on the Beer and Malt Duties; at the
had sent to India nine months before, and same time he should be glad if some pro-
of which he had kept no copy. He did ceeding of the government rendered his
not intend to enter at that moment into motion unnecessary.
a consideration of the letter itself. If the
document, consistently with the forms of ConMaoNs GALLERY-ADMISSION OF
parliament, could be laid upon the table STRANGERS.] Mr. Planta moved the
of the House, he should be anxious to say usual sessional orders and resolutions.
a word or two upon it, when it came be- On that relative to Strangers," which
fore them in a regular form. At present is n the following words-" That the
he would submit to his hon. and learned Serjeant at Arms attending this House
friend, whether the noble lord was not do, from time to time, take into his cus-
entitled to some indulgence for the rea- tody any Stranger or Strangers that he
sons which he had just stated, shall see, or be informed of to be, in the
Mr. G. Bankes said, as so much allusion House or Gallery, while the House, or
had been made to the forgetfulness of any.Committee of the whole House, is
the noble lord, he would only say that the sitting; and that no person, so taken into
friends of that noble lord would have custody, be discharged out of custody
ill-served him if they had rested his de- without the special order of the House,"
fence entirely upon that ground. His for- Mr. Hume said, he wished to call the
getfulness was intended to apply only to attention of the House to this particular
particular expressions in the letter ; and order. It was an order of very old stand-
really those expressions appeared to him ing; indeed it was so ancient, that it was
to have been very much misinterpreted by disregarded in practice ; and he therefore
the newspapers, put it to the House whether they had not
Mr. Rice said, his reason for bringing this now arrived at the time when they could
matter forward at this early period was, avowedly admit the public to hear what
that the letter stated the intentions of passed within their walls, a privilege
government with regard to the East-India which it substantially possessed already,
Company's charter. Hie had therefore although liable to certain penalties for ex-
thought it right to ascertain whether the ercising it. It was well known that, if
statements of the letter were true or not. any member wished the gallery to be
Petition ordered to be printed, cleared, he had only to intimate that
Strangers were present, and the gallery
WEST INDIES AND THE UNITED must be cleared without any debate.
STATES.] Mr. Robinson.-As I have a Last year, as a gallant friend of his
question to put to the right hon. Secretary (colonel Davis), whom he had not the

Manlt Duties. 134

[COMMONS,] Unrepresented Towns. 136

pleasure to see in his place, was making a notice. The speech of the hon. member
statement relative to the conduct of Mr. for Aberdeen proved that there was no
Nash, and the expenditure incurred in the necessity for the alteration which he re-
ercctiori of Buckingham Palace, to the commended, for the hon. member admitted
manner in which the public money had that the order was a dead letter. No
been squandered upon it, and to the de- practical inconvenience resulted from its
gree in which a public board, appointed to standing on their order-book ; for the
control the expense, had neglected its good sense of hon. members was a suffi-
duty, an hon. member rose, and, in order cient security that it would not be ei-
to prevent the truth from getting before forced without due cause [hear]. With
the public, had the gallery cleared. Now, all the pains which he had taken, the hon.
so long as this was one of their standing member for Aberdeen had only been able
orders, no one could object to such a pro- to remember one instance in which this
ceeding. He considered it, however, as a order had been acted upon. Every body
great hardship-he considered it as shut- knew that full and regular publicity was
ting the door upon all the beneficial re- given to the debates which took place in
suits which arose from publicity. Indeed, that House. What might be the con-
when he saw what passed in that House, sequences of the right of unlimited
he saw enough to convince him that if publicity, he would not venture to pre-
their debates did not go before the coun- dict [hear] : but he doubted whether the
try, it would be much better that the present uninterrupted decorum of their
country should have no House of Com- proceedings could be maintained concur-
mons; indeed that had long been his opi- rently with unlimited publicity.
union. He therefore submitted to the Mr. Hume.--" Perhaps the House will
House, that it should allow, for one year, let this order stand over for a few days, in
the suspension of this order, and see whe- order to enable me to give .the notice
other any evil was likely to arise from it. which the right hon. gentleman seems to
It would be open to the House on any think necessary. I should hope that the
occasion when the question was raised further consideration of this order may be
' that the gallery be cleared,' to determine, postponed for a week." [Cries of" no no"]
from the character of the proposition under Mr. Peel could not consent to that
discussion, how far it was fitting that the proposal, because it would seem to call
debate should be concealed from the pub- in question the propriety of the ex-
lic. Thus they would at any time be able isting order. The passing of that order
to prevent improper disclosures from being now would not prevent the hon. member
made, whilst, by opening their doors for Aberdeen from calling the attention of
widely to the public, they would show the House to it on a future occasion.
that they were not averse to have their He hoped, however, that the Housewould
conduct known and examined. He'was pause before it parted with the power of
sorry to say, that even if that were done, clearing the gallery. [hear]
the accommodation for thepublicwouldre- Mr. Hume said, he would not press his
main so inconvenient, that he should much objection to the resolution at present, but
wish to see it corrected. He therefore would take another opportunity of bring-
suggested the propriety of not pressing this ing it under consideration.-The order
order at present, but of suspending it for was then agreed to.
this session. He thought that no regula-
tion ought to be made by the House UNREPRESENTED TowNS.] Lord John
which it was not intended to carry into Russell gave notice that on the2 ,rd hi
effect; and that when any regulation should move for leave to bring in a bill to
which was never carried into effect was enable or allow Manchester, Leeds, and
regularly brought under their considera- Birmingham, to send Members to Parlia-
tion, it ought to be repealed. ment. [cheers]
Mr. Peel; by no means acquiesced
in the proposition which had just been CORK CITY ELECTION.] Mr Speaker
made by the hon. member for Aberdeen. acquainted the House, that he had 'e-
The proposal to abandon so important ceived from the Deputy to the Clerk of
a privilege as the present, was one of the Crown in Ireland a petition of Danjil
those matters on which the House ought Meagher, and others, electors of the city
riot to decide instantly and without due of Cork, complaining of an undue election,

135 Commons Gallery.

1t7 Report of the Address

and return for the said city.-A petition
was then presented from Daniel Meagher,
and others, electors of the city of Cork,
complaining of that election:-Ordered
to be taken into consideration upon Thurs-
day the 25th day of this instant February,
at three of the clock in the afternoon;
and Mr. Speaker to issue his warrants
for persons papers and records.-The pe-
tition set forth, That, at the last election
of a Citizen to serve in Parliament for the
city of Cork, in the room of sir Nicholas
Conway Colthurst, baronet, deceased,
Gerard Callaghan, of the city of Cork,
merchant, and sir Augustus Warren, of
Warren's Court, in the county of Cork,
baronet, were candidates, being duly put
in nomination; that, before and at the
time of the test of the writ directed to
Samuel Perry, junior, and James John
Cummins, esquires, sheriffs of the said
city, to return a citizen to serve in parlia-
ment for the said city, and during the
execution of the said writ, and at the
time of the return hereinafter mentioned
being made on the same, the said Gerard
Callaghan was a person who directly or
indirectly, by himself or by some person
or persons in trust for him, or for his use
or benefit, or on his account, was con-
cerned in the execution of a certain con-
tract or agreement entered into with the
Commissioners of his Majesty's Treasury,
or with some other person or persons, for
or on account of the public service; by
reason of which premises the said Gerard
Callaghan was rendered incapable of
being elected or chosen a member of the
House of Commons of Great Britain and
Ireland" [See Appendix, Commons Votes,
SNo. 6,]

PRIVATE BILLS.] The following Re-
solutions were adopted.as standing orders
for the session ; -That this House will not
receive any petition for private bills, after
Friday the 19th day of this instant Fe-
bruary ;--That no private bill be read the
fir:t time after Monday the 8th day of
'March next; and-That this House will
not receive any report of such private bill,
after -Monday the 3rd day of May next.

SPEECH.] The Earl of Darlington ap-
;.pered at the bar with the Report of the
co.ipittee appointed to prepare the Ad-
dress on the Lords Commissioners Speech.
The Address being read a second time,

Lord Palmerston rose.-He understood
that some amendments were to be pro-
posed, and he wished to make some ob-
servations before that stage arrived. He
had voted for the Amendment of the pre-
iceding evening (sir E. Knatchbull's) be-
cause it appeared to him to embrace a
fair statement of facts. But he wished
not to be understood by his vote on that
Occasion as either despairing of the situa-
Stion of the country, or binding himself to
a concurrence in those measures with
which some individuals might think it
Proper that the Amendment should be
Followed up. He did not look with de-
spondency on the situation of the country;
for when he saw twenty millions of active
and industrious men enjoying the blessings
of such a constitution as we possessed,
placed on a fine and fertile soil, and hav-
ing the power to avail themselves of all
the local advantages of commerce, it was
impossible but that ultimately the condi-
tion of the country would be improved.
His opinion was, that the distress arose, in
a great degree, from the measures taken
with respect to the currency; and he
thought, if any man who voted for these
measures did not, at the same time, per-
ceive that they must produce very con-
siderable alterations, that he could not
have understood the subject. It was clear,
that the return to a metallic standard was
likely to be attended with certain difficul-
ties ; but if they would contrast the diffi-
culties of the present day with those scenes
of distress and bankruptcy which were
created by various panics, he thought it
would be found that the pressure occa-
sioned by the return to a sound currency
was infinitely less than the mischief occa-
sioned by the alterations incidental to the
old system. [hear] They were, when the
change was made, in the condition of a
patient labouring under a severe disorder,
without any chance of cure, except by
undergoing an operation; and who, if he
had not the spirit to bear that operation,
would suffer much more pain from the en-
durance of the disorder itself. For his
own part, he thought there was no salva-
tion for the country but in the establish-
ment of a permanent and unchangeable
standard; [hear, hear] and there was no
mode of establishing it, except hyl, pi oc.:ed-
ing as the government had done. Fe
therefore concurred, with great satisfac-
tion, in that part of his majesty's. Speech
in which a determination to adhere to the

on the Speech.

[FEB. 5. ]

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