University of Florida Samuel Proctor Oral History Program : Catalog of Collections 2004 : an index of fourteen projects as of January 1, 2005

Material Information

University of Florida Samuel Proctor Oral History Program : Catalog of Collections 2004 : an index of fourteen projects as of January 1, 2005
Pleasants, Julian M.
Place of Publication:
Gainesville, Fla.
University of Florida


Subjects / Keywords:
Florida ( LCSH )
Spatial Coverage:
Alachua (Fla.) -- History


This text has been transcribed from an audio or video oral history. Digitization was funded by a gift from Caleb J. and Michele B. Grimes.

Record Information

Source Institution:
Samuel Proctor Oral History Program, Department of History, University of Florida
Holding Location:
Samuel Proctor Oral History Program, Department of History, University of Florida
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Made available under a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 4.0 International license:


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Full Text

University of Florida

Samuel Proctor
Oral History Program
Catalog of Collections 2004

Paynes Prairie Summer 2004, south ofGainesville, Florida

University of Florida

Samuel Proctor
Oral History Program

Catalog of Collections 2004

Julian M. Pleasants
Director, SPOHP

Special thanks for financial support to compile this catalog of collections
Mr. & Mrs. Caleb Grimes
University of Florida College of Liberal Arts & Sciences
University of Florida Department of History
University of Florida Digital Libraries

Thanks to our volunteers and staff who have worked diligently on this compilation
Diane Fischler, Deborah Hendrix, Ann Smith, Melissa Mayer, Shane
Runyon, Ira Fischler, Kelly Crandall, Benjamin Houston, Kristin Dodek,
& Roberta Peacock

Text copyright University of Florida Samuel Proctor Oral History Program, 2005.
Photography copyright Jane Dominguez, 2004.

Copyright on the contents of all interviews is held by the University of Florida Samuel Proctor
Oral History P. .... -.! ....- .- unless otherwise noted, are open and available for use
with proper attribution. All rights reserved. No part of this publication may be reproduced,
stored in a retreival system, or transmitted, in any form or by any means-electronic, mechani-
cal, photocopying, recording, or otherwise-without prior written permission of the University
of Florida Samuel Proctor Oral History Program.

Book design by CLAS News & Publications, University of Florida.

On the cover: Now designated a National Natural Landmark, Paynes Prairie became Florida's
first state preserve in 1971.


Alphabetical Listing by Interviewees ............................... 9

Indexes by Project
Civilian Conservation Corps ..................................I8

Florida Everglades Restoration................................27

Florida Business Leaders...................................... 40

Florida 2000 Election Project...............................55

Florida Growth Management..................................II9

Florida Newspapers......................... ..................126

Florida Politicians.......................... ....................49

University of Florida
General Collection ..........................................172

University of Florida
Athletics ...............................................264

University of Florida
College of Law ................. .......................272

University of Florida
College of Nursing ................. ..................... 30

University of Florida
Fisher School of Accounting .................................308

University of Florida Health Center
College of Medicine ............................................ 313

University of Florida
Women's Studies Program.................................346

This compilation is dedicated to
Dr. Samuel Proctor, Director Emeritus,
Samuel Proctor Oral History Program
University of Florida
1967 to 1996

Samiipl Prnrtnr lrnl Hittnnr Prngram Catalng nf Cnllprtinnn nnr

Alphabetical Listing

by Interviewees

Name Project # Page Name Project # Page
Abbott, Elizabeth UF 139 212 Austin, Keith UFLC 1 275
Abney, William UF 302 258 Austin, Oliver UF 67 192
"Radical Bill" H. Axline, Robert H. FBL 13 46
Adkins, James C. UFLC 39 284 Bachman, CharlesW. UF 106 202
Adkins, Jr., Andrew UFLC 13 276 Baldwin, Donald K. FNP 8 129
Adkins, Jr., James C. UFLC 17 277 Baldwin, Fletcher N., Jr. UFLC 49 288
Aguirre, Horacio FNP 64 145 Barber, Charles Edward "Ed" FNP 49 139
Alexander, Alice Elizabeth UF 21o 230 Barber, Charles Edward "Ed" UF 179 222
Alexander, Ruth H. UF 194 226 Barber, Walter "Red" UFA 8 267
Alexander, Ruth H. UFA 13 269 Barnett, Ernie EVG12 33
Allen, George 'Willie" UFLC 23 279 Barnett, Martha W. UFLC 70 296
Allen, George 'Willie" UFLC 72 297 Barrow, MarkV., Sr. UFHC 30 327
Anderson, Claud FP 21 153 Barton, Pauline "Polly" UFCN 3 303
Anderson, Courtland FNP 7 128 Batey, Hal UF 96 199
Anderson, Montgomery D. UF 52 188 Baughman, George UF 258 244
Anqueira, Jose FP 23 153 Baya, George UFLC 22 279
Appelbaum, Stuart EVG II 33 Becker, Raymond B. UF 29 182
Apperson, Frances UF 60 19g Beckley, Josephine Broward FP 9 152
Apperson, Frances E. UF 45 186 Belin, Jacob C. FBL 15 47
Apthorp, James W. FP 24 154 Bennett, Charles E. FP6o 164
Ariet, Mario UF 245 240 Bennett, Jean UFHC 47 336
Arny, Nancy P. UF 244 240 Benton, R.J. UF 2 173
Askeland, Chris UF 294 255 Berenson, Gerald S. UFHC 32 328
Askew, Reubin FP 25 154 Berger, Mitchell FEP 21 75
Askew, Reubin FP I 150 Berner, Lewis UF 6 175
Austin, Damon Lorne UF 3o0 257 Berns, Kenneth I. UFHC 61 344
Austin, Edythe UF 81 196 Bishop, Budd H. UF 191 225
Austin, Keith FSA 7 311 Bishop, Budd H. UF 193 226

Samilpl Prnrtnr Oral Hittnnr Prgram Catalng nf Cnllprtinns ann/

Name Project # Page Name Project # Page
Black, Alvin P. UF 24 181 Carlson, Norm FNP 33 134
Black, Arthur UFLC 4 273 Carmichael, Parks UFLC 6 274
Black, Lassie Goodbread UF 134 211 Carpenter, A. E. UFLC 30 281
Blackmon, Gulie Hargrove UF 72 193 (Archer Eugene)
Blake, John W. UF 28 182 Carpenter, Kerey FEP 26 83
Blanton, Donna FEP 34 96 Carr, Peggy UF 252 242
Block, AlanJ. "Jay" UFHC 48 337 Carson, Donald EVG 15 35
Blodgett, Ralph UF Io9 203 Carson, Estelle UF o05 201
Blue, Edward G. UF 275 249 Cason, Warren M. UFLC 59 293
Bodine, Willis UF 153 215 Cassin, Sidney UFHC 56 342
Bodine, Willis UF 187 224 Caulkins-Stockwell, Tracy UFA2 265
Boggs, Otis UFA6 266 Caulkins-Stockwell, Tracy UFA7 267
Booth, Anne Cawthon UFLC 52 289 Chace, Elizabeth UF 84 196
Boucher, Geoff UF 205 229 Challoner, David R. UFHC 36 331
Bowden, Jesse Earle FNP 50 139 Chalmers, David M. UF 206 229
Bowles, Richard William UF 149 214 Chamberlin, Bill F. UF 180 222
Boyd, Alfred D. FBL 14 46 Chapman, Alvah FNP 6 128
Boylston, Gary FP 26 154 Chandler, William UFLC 19 278
Bradbury, Robert UF 48 187 Chapman, Jr., Alvah H. FNP 1o 130
Brady, Mama UF I 173 Cherry, Gwen FP 32 155
Bragg, Ricky FNP 21 132 Chiles, Lawton FP33 155
Brower, Lincoln UF 242 239 Christiansen, Carol, Hayes- UFCN 5 304
Bruton, Jr.,James D. UFLC 56 291 Clark, Audrey UFCN Io 306
Bryan, Robert A. UF 220 233 Clark, Edward Herbert UF I29 209
Bryan, Robert A. UF 257 243 Clark, Nikki FEP 42 113
Bryant, Farris FP 64 165 Clayton, Erwin UFLC 5 274
Bryant, Farris FP 65 165 Cluff, Leighton UFHC 44 335
Bryant, Thomas FP 45 158 Cody, MarthaJane Ballard UF 93 198
Bullen, Kenneth UF 66 192 Coffey, Kendall FEP 29 88
Burnette, Carrol CCC 7 22 Cofrin, DavidA. FBL 28 53
Burt, Al FNP 42 137 Cofrin, Mary Ann Harn UF 223 234
Burton, Brian UF 278 250 Coggin, Jr., Luther FBL 24 50
Burton, Charles E. FEP I 56 Cohen, Jeremy David UF 30I 257
Bush, Harry CCC 13 26 Cole, Sr., Thomas Winston UF259 245
Bushnell, David UF 236 237 Coleman, Thaddeus UF 274 249
Butler, Clark FBL 20 48 Collins, LeRoy FP 37 156
Butterworth, Bob FEP 38 103 Collins, LeRoy FP 38 156
Byers, Charles F. UF 17 179 Collins, LeRoy FP 39 157
Cade, J. Robert UFHC 25 325 Collins, LeRoy FP 62 165
Camp, Jr., Clifton D. FNP 9 129 Collins, LeRoy Governor FNP 6 128
Cardwell, David FEP 6 59 Collins, Michael EVG I8 37
Carlson, JohnV. UF 215 232 Conner, Fred UF 172 220

Alphahbtiral I isting hy IntprviPewee

Name Project # Page Name Project # Page
Constans, Henry Philip UF 5 174 DeGrove, John FGM 5 122
Cooke, Winifred E. Buchanan UF 184 223 Delony, Dexter UFLC 64 295
Cooper, J. Francis UF 77 195 Denslow, David UF 132 2IO
Copps, Michael FP 70 167 Dial, William H. FBL 2 41
Cordell, Joe B. FBL 10 45 Dickinson, William B. FNP II 130
Cowart, Hillary CCC 2 19 Dickison, Sheila UFWS 5 349
Cox, Ernest UF 23 180 Dockery,J. Lee UFHC 53 339
Craps, John E. UF 15 178 Doherty, Steven UF 246 241
Craven, Roy C. UF 207 229 Donegan, Hazel UFHC 46 336
Creel, Austin B. UF 217 232 Dorman, Phyllis UF 175 221
Creighton, Beth UF 117 205 Doughty, Paul L. UF 268 247
Crenshaw, Jeanne D. UFLC 16 277 Douglas, Barton UFLC 8 274
Crevasse, Lamar UFHC 19 322 Douglas, Marjorie Stoneman FNP 45 138
Crews, Earl UF 297 256 Douglass, Dexter FEP 4o0 08
Criser, Marshall M. UF 243 240 Douglass, W. Dexter FEP 7 61
Criser, Paula UF 306 259 Drylie, David Marsh UFHC 27 325
Crook, Larry UF 287 253 Dunn-Rankin, Derek FNP 68 147
Crosby, Harold UFLC 42 285 Durell, Phyllis UF III 203
Cross, J. Emory "Red" FP42 157 duToit, Brian UF 270 248
Curran, Robert UF o10 200 Dyckman, Martin FNP 5 r28
Dadisman, Carroll FNP 69 147 Ebersole, Wanda UF 169 219
D'Alemberte, Talbot "Sandy" UFLC 55 291 Edmonson, Anna Bryce UF 168 219
Danburg, Russell UF 156 216 Edwardson, Mickie UF 201 228
Daniels, Herschal CCC 5 21 Ehrlich, Raymond UFLC 34 282
Dasburg, John FBL 16 47 Ehrlich, Raymond UFLC 53 290
Dauer, ManningJ. UF 115 204 Ellis, A. L. FBL 4 42
Dauer, ManningJ. UF 121 207 Emerson, William FBL 26 52
David, Bill FP 35 156 Emerson, William UF 320 263
Davidson, Eve UF 59 190 Enneking, William F. UFHC 40 333
Davidson, Jr., Herbert FNP 53 141 Ensign, Grace UF 6I 190
M. "Tippen" Enwall, Hayford UFLC 20 278
Davidson, Robert F. UF 21 180 Evans, Lester UFHC 15 320
Davis, Emma UF 118 205 Fairbanks, Charles UF 125 308
Davis, Horance G. "Buddy" UF 198 227 Farrior, Sr., J. Rex UF Ilo 203
Davis, Horance G. "Buddy" UF 261 245 Fauve, Greg FNP 4 127
Davis, Horance G. "Buddy" FNP 32 134 Feeney, Tom FEP 35 98
Davis, Hunt UF 291 255 Fenn, Henry UFLC 47 287
Davis, JerryW. FBL 27 52 Fernandez, Pedro Vila UF 32 183
Davis, John Henry UF 18 179 Fiedler, Thomas FEP 14 68
Davis, Michael EVG 13 34 Finger, Kenneth F. UFHC 9 316
De Grandy, Miguel FEP 28 87 Fisher, Frederick FBL 25 51
DeConna, William UF 294 255 Fisher, Waldo R. UFHC 43 334

amliel Prnrtnr Oral Hittnnr Program Catalng nf Cnllrtinns ann/

Name Project # Page Name Project # Page
Flan:,... I ... G. UF 2I9 232 Graham, Elizabeth UF 176 221
Florida Election 2000, FEP 4 57 Graham, Klein Harrison UF4 174
Levin Law School Graham, Robert "Bob" FP 50 16o
Foley, Michael FNP 66 146 Gramling, Leo "Gene" UFHC 8 316
Foote, PerryA. UF 20 180 Grass, Alex UFLC 71 297
Foreman, Ronald Dr. UF 174 221 Gravenstein, Joachim "Nik" S. UFHC 52 339
Foster, Leo UFLC 31 281 Graves, Ray UFA 5 266
Fox, George UF 54 189 Graves, Ray UFA 17 271
Frampton, George EVG 19 38 Graves, Shirley UFHC 41 333
Franklin, Minerva C. UF 183 223 Green, James R. UFHC 39 332
Frazer, Winifred L. UF 204 229 Green, Lucile (R.A. Lex) FP 40 152
Free, HarryJames UFHC 51 338 Green, R.A. Lex FP 12 152
Freeman, George UF Imo 206 Greene, Jr., Thomas FNP 51 140
Freeman, Katherine A. UF 248 241 Greer, Melvin UFHC 54 340
French ,John FP 6 151 Griffin, Jr., Ben Hill FBL 3 41
Fried, Melvin UFHC I 314 Griffith, Mildred UF 85 196
Friedman, Gerald UF 288 254 Guest, Larry FNP 44 137
Frisbie, IV, S. L. FNP 58 143 Gunn, Colin D. UF 98 199
Frye, Barbara FNP 3 127 Gunzberger, Sue FEP 17 70
Funk, Arthur L. UF 239 239 Gurney, J. Thomas FBL 7 43
Fuqua, Don FP 67 166 Haile, John FNP 37 135
Fussell, Carroll UFLC 14 276 Haiman, RobertJ. FNP 14 131
Gaitanis, Louis UF 277 250 Hairston, John M. "Jack" FNP 49 138
Gannon, Michael V. UF 181 223 Hairston, John M. "Jack" UFA II 268
Gannon, Michael V. UF 141 212 Haislett, Nicole UFA 3 265
speeches w. Dean Hale, James P. UF 155 215
Garnett, Burt FNP 12 130 Hale, Lester UF 122 207
Garris, Edward Walter UF 78 195 Hall, Galen UFA 9 268
Gary, Faye UFCN 12 307 .!l.-. -., FP 36 156
Gehan, Clara F. UF 57 190 Hamilton, Claudie M. UF 82 196
Geller, Joel R. FEP 39 107 Hamilton, Henry G. UF 73 194
Geltz, Charles A. Professor UF 33 184 Hammond, Margaret Weeks UF 166 218
George, Lucille Cairns UFLC 10 275 Harding, Major B. FEP 41 112
Gibbons, Sam. M. FP 4 151 Harrell, George UFHC II 317
Glass, John FNP 13 130 Harrell, George T., Jr. UFHC 7 315
Glicksberg, Mandell UFLC 37 284 Harrer, Gustave UF 238 238
Goldhurst, William UF 171 220 Harris, CharlesJ. UF 272 249
Goodwin, Robert Cabaniss UF 69 193 Harris, Lawrence D. UF 256 243
Gordon, Michael W. UFLC 63 294 Harris, Marshall FP 41 157
Gowan, Samuel P. UF 209 230 Harris, Tom FNP 15 131
Goza, William M. UF 316 261 Harrison, John A. UF 232 236
Graeffe, Lotte B. UF 190 225 Harrower, Molly UF 131 210

Alphahbtiral I isting hy Intprvipewee

Name Project # Page Name Project # Page
Hart, Thomas A.E. UF 46 187 Jackson, William H. UF 286 253
Hartigan, Joan UFCN 13 307 Jacobs, Harry FEP 36 too
Hartigan, Karelisa UF 02 228 James, Sue T. UF 162 217
Hartmann, Fred FNP 62 144 James, Wilbur UF 86 197
Hawes, Leland FNP 63 144 Jamison, Eleanor Poynter FNP 16 131
Hawkins, Paula FP 20 153 Jennings, Ed,Jr. FEP 5 58
Hawkins, Paula FP 69 167 Jennings, Edward L. UF 269 248
Hawkins, Rebecca Bowles UFLC 68 295 Jesse, James H. FNP 39 136
Hayes, Francis C. UF 35 184 Johns, Roe. Lyell UF 39 185
Hedrick, David W. UFLC 29 281 Johnson, Edward "Ed" L. FNP 70 148
Helseth, CharlesJackson UF 292 255 Johnston, E. Covington UFLC 15 276
Herin, William UFLC 24 279 Jones, Edna Mae UFCN II 306
Herrero, Francisco UFHC 45 335 Jones, Isaac UFA 15 270
Herron, Mark FEP 23 78 Jones, Jesse Ray UF 226 234
Heskin, Oscar E. UF 92 198 Jones, John C. EVG 9 32
Hester, Janice P. UF 47 187 Jones, John Paul UF 227 234
Hiaasen, Carl FNP 55 141 Jones, Jr., John Paul FNP 26 133
Hicks, Dashwood UF 95 199 Jones, Marshall UF 216 232
Hill, Hugh "Smiley" M. UFHC 23 324 Jones, Otis UF 290 254
Hilliard, Elizabeth "Betty" UFCN I 302 Kallman, Irving UF 70 193
Hill-Lubin, Mildred UF 135 211 Kanner, Aaron M. UFLC 46 287
Hill-Lubin, Mildren UFWS I 347 Kaufman, John H. UF 253 242
Hinckley, Elmer D. UF 12 178 Keene, James C. CCC 4 20
Hines, Beatrice L. FNP 25 133 Keene, Kenneth FBL 18 48
Hinkley, Henry UFHC 2 314 Keister, Elwood UF 148 214
Hoffer, Charles R. UF 143 212 Kelly, T. Paine UFLC 58 292
Holmes, TalmadgeW. CCC 3 20 Kirk, Claude FP 74 168
Holt, Marjorie S. UFLC 73 298 Kirkland, J.R. FP 71 168
Homan, Sidney UF 303 258 Kitchen, E. C. "Deeno" FEP 32 92
Hopping, Wade FGM 6 123 Kitts, John UF 151 214
Home, Mallory FP 43 157 Klock, Joseph P. FEP I2 65
Humphrey, Stephen R. UF 250 242 Kniseley, S. Philip UF 165 218
Hunt, E. L. "Roy" UFLC 62 294 Knott, James R. UFLC 21 278
Hunt, Helen UF 49 188 Knowles, Lois UFCN 8 305
Husa, W.J. UF 71 193 Kogan, Gerald FEP 13 67
Huynh, Tu UF 229 235 Kokomoor, F. W. UF 19 179
Hyden, Goran UF 300 257 Kuehne, Benedict "Ben" FEP 18 71
Icenhour, John UF 123 207 Kushner, David UF 158 216
Ives, Richard CCC II 24 Laird, Angus M. UF 99 199
Jackson, Delphine UF 276 250 Lake, Noel UF 299 257
Jackson, Delphine UFAI6 270 Lang, C. Max UFHC 50 338
Jackson, Sr., Willie UFA 14 270 Lanzillotti, Robert F. FSA4 310

Samilll Prnrtnr Oral Hittnnr Prgram Catalng nf Cnllprtinns >nn/

Name Project # Page Name Project # Page
LaRoche, Christian FBL 29 54 Matherly, Jr., Walter UF 307 259
Jane Simons Mathis, Benjamin UF 260 245
Lastinger, Jr., Allen FBL 22 49 Matthews, Arnold FSA 2 309
Lawrence, David FNP 38 135 Matthews, D.R. "Billy" FP 3 150
Leary, Bill EVG 17 37 Matthews, D.R. "Billy" FP 47 158
Levin, Frederic G. UFLC 75 299 Matthews, D.R. "Billy" FP 54 162
Lewis, Hal UF 13 178 Matthews, D.R. "Billy" UF 167 218
Lewis, Jeffrey E. UFLC 45 286 Mauderli, Lotte UF 144 213
Lewis, Terry FEP 37 o10 Mautz, Bob UF 281 25I
Lincoln, Edward Palmer UF 145 213 Mayberry, Maurice UF 213 231
Lindgren, Robert R. UF 249 241 McAlister, Lyle N. UF 231 235
Little, Anne UF 83 196 McCarthy, Eugene FP 68 167
Little, Anne UF 116 205 McCarthy, Kevin M. UF 313 260
Little, Joseph W. UFLC 69 296 McCloud, D. D. UF 40 185
Lockhart, Madelyn UFWS 3 348 McCoy, Terry L. UF 296 256
Lombardi, John UF 317 261 McDermott, Michael FEP 43 115
Longstreth, Catherine UF 211 230 McDonald, Marshall FBL 5 42
Lowenstein, Ralph FNP 22 132 McEwen, Tom FNP 46 138
Lowenstein, Ralph UF 188 225 McFarlin, Diane FNP 56 142
Lowenstein, Ralph L. FNP 52 140 McGauley, Jim FNP 27 133
Macdonald, William D. UFLC I 273 McGovern, George FP 63 165
Mack, Connie FP 76 170 McGuire, Vincent UF 263 246
MacKay, Kenneth FP 75 169 McKay, John M. FEP 30 go
H. "Buddy" McKethan, Alfred A. FBL I 41
MacVicar, Thomas EVG 6 30 McQuitty, John UF 3 173
Maguire, Raymer UFLC 26 280 McSwine, Josephine UF 161 217
Mahon,John K. UF 233 236 Meek, Phyllis M. UF 2oo 228
Malasanos, LoisJ. UFHC 28 326 Mercadante, Lucille "Merc" UFCN 2 302
Maloney, Frank UFLC 35 283 Metcalf, H.G. UF 113 204
Mansfield, Bill FNP I 127 Micha, Anna Margaretha UF 254 243
Maren, Thomas H. UFHC 5 315 Mickle, Stephan P. UF 282 252
Maren, Thomas H. UFHC 24 234 Mickle, Stephan P. UFLC 36 283
Marsh, AaBram UF 271 248 Miller, Dixie UFLC 40 285
Marston, Robert Q. UF 170 219 Miller, GeorgeJohn UFLC 43 286
Marston, Robert Q. UF 221 223 Miller, Sally UF 182 223
Marston, Robert Q. UF 312 260 Mills, Jon UF 208 230
Martin, Ruth UFHC 13 319 Mims, Bernice A. UF 30 183
Martin, Sam UFHC 14 319 Mingo, G. W. UF 280 25I
Martin, Sam UFHC 16 321 Modell,Jerome H. UFHC 34 329
Martinez, Bob FP 73 168 Montgomery, Robert M. UFLC 41 285
Mase, DarrelJ. UFHC 6 315 Moore, John H. UF 241 239
Matheny, Randolph UFLC 27 280 Moore, Jr., Walter Taylor UFLC 33 282

Alphahbtiral I isting hy Intprvipewee

Name Project # Page Name Project # Page
Morgan, Lucy FEP 24 80 Peskowitz, Miriam UF 240 239
Morgan, Lucy FNP 48 139 Peterson, Pete FP 66 166
Morgan, William UF 136 211 Petrina, Susan UFHC 58 343
Morris, Allen FP 44 158 Pettengill, lona UFCN 4 303
Morris, Alton C. UF 38 185 Pettigrew, Richard Allen EVG Io 32
Moxon, James G. FBL 12 46 Pettijohn, Fred FNP 41 136
Moyle Jon FP2 150 Peyton, Herbert FBL 9 44
Murphree, Jr., Albert A. UF 9 176 Phillips, Mary K. UFLC 48 287
Neims, Allen H. UFHC 35 330 Pittman, Robert T. FNP 18 132
Nelson, Richard E. UFLC 57 292 Pittman, Robert FNP 6 128
Neuharth, Allen FNP 36 134 Poe, Bob FEP 27 85
New, Melvyn UF 319 263 Polopolus, Leonidas UF 178 222
Newell,John UF I30 209 Poole, Reid UF 157 216
Nickens, Tim FEP 25 81 Pope, Edwin FNP 60 143
Nieland, L. T. UF 43 186 Pope, Margo FNP 65 145
Norman, James W. UF 7 175 Porter, Charlotte UF 195 227
Normann, LeJune UF 214 231 Price, ThomasJ. UF 75 194
Norris, Joyce Marie UF 301 257 Pride, Don FP 46 158
Nutter, Hazen UF 103 200 Pridgen, Ila R. UF 56 189
O'Connell, Stephen C. UF 186 224 Primack, Robert UF 133 210
O'Connell, Stephen C. UF 304 259 Prince, Vivian C. UF 94 198
Odum, Howard T. FGM 4 121 Proctor, Samuel UF 235 237
Ogden, John EVG 7 30 Proctor, Samuel UF 315 261
O'Neal, Sara CCC 9 23 Proctor, Samuel UF 318 262
Otis, Arthur B. UFHC 4 314 Proffitt, Waldo FNP 67 146
Otte, BurtonJ. UF 63 191 Prystowsky, Harry UFHC 18 321
Overton, Benjamin F. UFLC 66 295 Purser, Mary UF 119 206
Afford, Virgie UFCN 7 304 Randall,J. Malcom UFHC 31 328
Page, Ralph E. UF 36 184 Read, Frank T. ("Tom") UFLC 44 286
Pando, Magdalen UF 94 198 Reed, Don FP 48 159
Parte, Louis De La FP 5 151 Reed, Nathaniel EVG 2 28
Patterson, Eugene FNP 2 127 Reed, Nathaniel FGM 3 121
Patterson, Eugene FNP 6 128 Reeves, Garth FNP 40 136
Patterson, Eugene FNP 17 131 Reichard, Cary UF 127 209
Payne, Ancil UF 8 176 Reitz, Frances UF 137 211
Peck, MarylyVanLeer UFWS 4 348 Reitz, Frances UF 140 212
Peek, Scott FP 58 164 Reitz, J. Wayne UF 159 216
Pell, Charlie UFA o1 268 Reitz, J. Wayne UF 160 217
Pepper, Claude FP 30 154 Rhodes, Robert FGM 8 124
Pepper, Claude FP 31 155 Rice, Colonel Terry EVG 4 29
Perez, Skip FNP 61 144 Richard, Barry FEP 40 Io8
Perry, Jr., John H. FNP 43 137 Richard, Barry FEP 33 93

6Samll l Prnrtnr mral Hiitnrn Pmgram Catalng nf Cnllprtinn lnn/|

Name Project # Page Name Project # Page
Richardson, Caroline UF 199 227 Shands, William A. FP 7 151
Richardson, James G. UF 237 238 Shaw, Harry B. UF 173 220
Richmond, Gerald F. FEP44 117 Shelley, Jr.,W. Paul UFLC 18 277
Riker, Elizabeth UF 163 218 Sherouse, Marsha M. UF 152 215
Riker, Harold UF 128 209 Shires, Jr., Dana LeRoy UFHC 49 337
Riker, Harold UF 164 218 Simmons, John K. FSA I 309
Ring, Dick EVG 16 36 Simmons, William UF 273 249
Ring, EmilyWhite UF 53 188 Simpson, Elizabeth UF 55 189
Stevens Maclachlan UF 53 188 Sims, Evelyn UFHC 3 314
Rinker, Marshall E. FBL 8 44 Singleton, George T. UFHC 38 332
Ripley, III, Joseph Mills UF 228 235 Sloan, Scott A. UF 212 231
Robbins, Leon "Rabbit" UFLC 7 274 Sloan, Scott A. UF 224 234
Robertson, Archibald UF o1 177 Smathers, George FP 49 159
Robertson, Archibald UF 112 204 Smathers, George FP 57 163
Rockwood, Lawrence FP 72 168 Smith, Chesterfield UFLC 28 28o
Rogers, Lewis H. UF 90 I97 Smith, Chesterfield UFLC 74 298
Rogow, Bruce FEP 20 73 Smith, Dorothy Mary UFHC 29 326
Rosenbaum, Walter A. "Tony" EVG I 28 Smith, Godfrey FBL 6 43
Ross, Warren E. UFHC 57 342 Smith,JoAnn UF 196 227
Rubin, Melvin UFHC 26 325 Smith, LouvinaJackson UF 98 197
Ruffier,Joan FBL 21 49 Smith, LouvinaJackson UF I89 225
Rumberger, Thom FEP 9 64 Smith, Richard T. UFHC 20 322
Rumph,J. Quinton FBL 23 50 Smith, Rod FEP II 64
Rusk, Dean FP 56 163 Smith, Ted UF 298 257
Russo, Louis UFHC 60 344 Smysor, Paul UFLC 9 275
Sabatella, Joseph UF 146 213 Spangler, Byron D. UF 185 224
Sabatella, Joseph J. UF 222 233 Speer, Sue FP 77 171
Safa, Helen I. UF 267 247 Splichal, Bernard CCC o1 24
Sashoff, Stephan P. UF 31 183 Spring, Anita UF 203 228
Saul, Anne FNP 57 142 Springfield, Molly UF 107 202
Savage, Charles UF I08 202 Stanley, Dennis "Dutch" K. UF 26 181
Savage, Charles UFLC 12 275 Starke, George UF 310 260
Schaefer, Hadley P. FSA 6 311 Starke, George UF 311 260
Schaffer, Nile C. UF 68 192 Starnes, Earl M. FGM I 120
Schiebler, Gerold UFHC 33 329 .-. .. JoelR. UF 154 215
Schlegel, Elfi UFA I 25 Stembler, John H. UFLC 6o 293
Schmidt, Richard P. UFHC 21 323 Stephens, Richard B. UFLC 25 279
Schwartz, Michael Averill UFHC 55 341 Sterrett, Delbert UF 147 213
Scudder, Delton UF 177 221 Stevens, Grace UF 58 190
Seaberg, Lillian UF 41 186 Stewart-Dowdell, Betty UF 264 246
Sessums, Terrel FP 52 162 Stipanovich,J. M. "Mac" FEP 22 77
Seymour, Alfred CCC 9 23 Stipanovich,J. M. FGM 7 124

Alphahbtiral I iting hy IntprviPewee

Name Project # Page Name Project # Page
Stone, Willard E. FSA 3 309 Walker, Sue UF 44 186
Strahl, Stuart P. EVG 3 28 Wallace, Howard Keefer UF 79 195
Streiff, Richard R. UFHC 59 343 Warren, Alma FP 8 152
Strozier, Virginia UFCN 6 304 ...m., ..- -I.I.- I FSA 5 310
Suter, Emanuel "Manny" UFHC o1 317 Waters, Craig FEP 31 91
Swanson, Robert M. UF 14 178 Webb, Rodman UF 266 247
Tams, Madge UF 62 191 Wedgworth, George EVG 14 34
Tate, Leona Bramblett UF 142 212 Weil, Joseph UF 50 188
Taylor, Betty UFLC 2 273 Weimer, Rae UF 314 261
Taylor, Jape UFHC 37 331 Weimer, Rae 0. UF II 177
Taylor, Sam CCC 8 23 Welch, PaulaD. UFAI2 269
Tefertiller, Kenneth UF 251 242 Welch, Paula D. UF 289 254
Thomas, Jr., William UFHC 42 334 Wentworth, Winifred L. UFLC 51 289
Thomas, L. E. Tommy FP 53 162 West, Caroline Cockrell UF 104 201
Thompson, Ina S. FP 51 161 West, Stanley UF 65 191
Thompson, Irene UFWS 2 347 Westmoreland, William FP 59 164
Thompson, Sam CCC 9 23 Weston, Marna UF 279 251
Thompson, Sam CCC 12 25 Weyrauch, Walter O. UFLC 61 293
Thrall, Grant UF 265 246 White, Fred CCC I 19
Thrasher, Leon B. UF 97 199 White,Joseph UF 37 184
Tigert, John UF 114 204 Whitfeld, Estus EVG 8 31
Tigert, JohnJ. UF 42 186 Williams, Aubrey UF 308 259
Tilgaman, Mike CCC 6 22 Williams, Clyde M. UFHC 12 318
Tison, Jean P. UF 102 200 Wilson, James UF 285 253
Tissot, Archie N. UF 80 195 Wilson, Jennet UFCN 9 305
Todd, Eugene UF 126 208 Wilson,Jennet M. UF 230 235
Troupin, Ed UF 150 214 Wise, J. Hooper UF 22 18o
Troupin, Edward C. UF 192 226 Wolfe, Herbert S. UF 87 197
Trueblood, Felicity UF 225 234 Wood, Michael UFHC 17 321
Turlington, Ralph FP 55 162 Wood, Robert Pierce UF 293 255
Turner, G. Manuel UF 25 181 Woodward, C. Vann UF 309 259
Tuttle, Frank UF 27 182 Woodward, Edward R. UFHC 22 323
Tyson, Jane UF 74 194 Wotitzky, Leo UFLC 54 290
Uible, John D. FBL II 45 Wright, Donald C. FNP 59 143
Upchurch, Sr., Frank UFLC 3 273 Wright, Frank UF 284 252
Valk, Melvin UF 76 194 Yai, Olabiyi B. UF 247 241
Van Alstyne, Jr., Scott UFLC 50 288 York, E. T. UF 234 236
Varnes, Martha UF 297 256 Youngs, Marian UF 64 191
Vasilinda, Mike FEP 8 63 Zack, Stephen N. FEP 15 69
Wade, Jr., Malcolm S. "Bubba"EVG 5 29 Zwick, Charles FGM 2 120
... .. UFA4 265
Walker, David UF 295 256

Civilian Conservation Corps

Each of the following interview indexes of the Civilian
Conservation Corps (CCC) Project is comprised of brief phrases
giving the essence of the topics discussed. Topics in the index
appear in the same order as in the interview, thus serving as a
general location guide for the researcher interested only in certain
portions of the interview.

Copyright held by the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program. All
interviews, unless otherwise noted, are open and available for
use with proper attribution.

Civilian CnnrPrvatinn Corps
Fred White
Worked in CCC camps in Louisiana, Ocala National Forest (Ocala, Florida), Fort
Clinch (Fernandina, Florida)
Growing up in Alachua County as a sharecropper in a family of fifteen chil-
dren, educated through third grade, inferiority complex because of lack of
education, impact of Depression and doing odd jobs, perception of President
Franklin D. Roosevelt, Depression affecting outlook on life, joined CCC in
1935 to help family and have a better life, stationed in Ocala National Forest
(1936-1937), recruitment and selection for the CCC, moved to camp at
Fernandina (Florida) (1937-1939), CCC made men out of boys which reflect-
ed well on the selection process for the Armed Forces, orientation at Louisiana
camp involved a harmful initiation, Ocala National Forest work-building
bridges and clearing underbrush to make room for roads to get to fires,
description of uniforms, daily routine according to Army, dental and health
care in camps, physical layout of Ocala camp, Army reserve officers as supervi-
sors, typical work day, AWOL just once, recreation, learned skills such as road
building and constructing jetties around Fort Clinch, favorable opinion of
commanding officers and foremen, hierarchy of camp officers, regrets not tak-
ing classes, sports, religious services, segregation of individual camps, camp
desertions, learned to take responsibility, greatest benefit in joining CCC was
sending the money back home, upon leaving CCC-helped build Camp
Blanding, became a welder at a shipyard during World War II and remained
one until retirement in 1980, those who served in the CCC "made the Armed
Forces," CCC disbanded in 1942, local and national chapters of CCC.
March 16, 1998
37 Pages-Open

Hillary Cowart
Worked in CCC camps at Fort Clinch, Jacksonville Beach Camp Blanding (all in
Florida), Reno (Nevada)
Growing up near Gainesville, education to ninth grade, became driver at age
thirteen for father, tried to go back to high school but quit and left home,
enlisted in CCC at age thirteen, but said he was seventeen, joined CCC in
Gainesville in 1939 for the money to send home and "for something to do,"
stationed first in Fernandina at Fort Clinch, then Jacksonville Beach to build
recreation camp for Army, transferred to Camp Blanding, then to various
camps near Reno (Nevada) to build new ones, including one of the biggest
camps in the U.S. near the Truckee River, served as a night watchman, military
procedures on entering the CCC, gambling in Reno, typical day in
Jacksonville Beach camp loading sand onto trucks, worked with dynamite in
Nevada, joined Navy at age seventeen in I941, CCC made "a man out of me,"
CCC "was the best thing that ever could of happened to this country," took
minimal educational classes, most important skill learned was how to get along

Samiel Prnrtnr Oral Hittnnr Prgram Catalng nf Cnllprtinns qnna
with campmates, CCC taught him that "you have to pay for everything you
get," once in Navy he was almost assigned to a ship his brother was on but then
got reassigned due to publicity about the Sullivan brothers, stationed in South
Florida at a blimp base, became armed guard on merchant ships in Caribbean
and Atlantic, one of his merchant ships was sunk and it took eight hours to be
rescued, relates more shipboard war experiences, jobs held after the war
including helping to build Flavet Village at University of Florida [housing for
returning veterans], involvement with national CCC organization.
April 30, 1998
35 Pages-Open

Talmadge W. Holmes
Worked in CCC camps at Yosemite National Park, Big Sur, and Monterey (all in
Growing up in Hillsborough County (Florida), quit high school and joined
CCC at age seventeen in 1939, joined to send twenty-five dollars back home,
impact of Depression on family, stationed first at Yosemite National Park dig-
ging up gooseberries and working in the kitchen, spending the five dollars
monthly allowance, promoted to company baker, military command, alternat-
ed with Yosemite in the summer and Big Sur and Monterey in the winter, bar-
racks inspections, promoted to mess sergeant, working under authority of
National Park Service and living under authority of the Army, no women or
World War I veterans or African-Americans in camp, CCC turned him into a
man, most important part of CCC experience was learning to deal with own
problems and how to face life and acquiring leadership skills, joined U.S.
Maritime Academy in St. Petersburg to train for the merchant marine,
obtained Fireman Oiler's license, during World War II worked on Liberty ships
hauling ammunition to North Africa, drafted into Navy with war duty in
Pacific, opinion on dropping the atomic bomb, CCC offered new outlook on
life, disliked the confinement, CCC ended in 1942 because of war and its
services were no longer needed, would like to see CCC revived, odd jobs after
war and rejoining merchant marine, remained in service for forty years.
My 5, 1998
32 Pages-Open

James "Jake" Keene
Worked in CCC camps at Well's Tannery (Pennsylvania), Logandale (Nevada),
Charleston Mountains (Nevada)
Early years on Pine Island in Lee County, impact of Depression, experiencing
the hurricane of 1926, dropped out of high school at age seventeen to join
CCC in 1936, joined to send money back home, view of President Roosevelt,
learned responsibility and value of a dollar from working in the CCC, indoc-
trination at Fort McPherson (Georgia), Army boys did not like the CCC boys

Civilian Cnnrervatinn Corps
because CCC paid more than the U.S. Army (Thirty dollars versus twenty-one
dollars a month), World War I veterans lived in separate camps, worked at
Well's Tannery Camp in southern Pennsylvania to clear brush for a state park
and to mark trails, military rankings of those who supervised, not under mili-
tary rules except for discipline, typical camp day, recreation and educational
classes, socializing in town with girls, camp doctors were retired army physi-
cians, stayed in CCC for six months then quit to return to high school but
dropped out again, re-entered CCC in 1938 because there were no jobs, pro-
moted to higher-level positions in CCC with higher pay, sent to Logandale
winter camp in Nevada to work on the dam on the Moapa River, specifics of
his job as a crew chief, summer camp in Charleston Mountains in the Sierras
to work on roads and build a cistern, new position as company clerk, CCC's
newspaper Happy Days, Las Vegas in the late 1930s, left CCC in 1939 to work at
Camp Blanding as a clerk, brakeman for the Seaboard Airline Railroad for
thirty-nine years, served in Navy during World War II and trained to be boat
operator for amphibious forces but war ended before he was sent overseas,
CCC made him feel better about himself because he was "helping and doing
something," learned skills in the CCC including discipline, reasons for CCC
to shut down, significance of the CCC, segregation-northerners were never in
same camp with southerners.
My 5, 1998
31 Pages-Open

Herschel Daniels
Worked in CCC camps at Camp Point (Illinois), Camp Point (Wisconsin), Gays
Mills Camp (Wisconsin)
Growing up in Salem in Illinois, joined CCC at age seventeen when he was in
the ninth grade (1936), "got by" during the Depression, saw President
Roosevelt in a CCC camp, stationed at Camp Point in Illinois and worked in a
limestone quarry, CCC took him despite hearing disability but the military
would not take him, transferred to two camps in Wisconsin, typical camp day,
barracks inspections, army officers in charge, uniforms were World War I left-
overs, took classes and earned credit, one black CCC member in camp, chap-
eroned girls came into the camp for dances, dynamite used in the limestone
quarry in Illinois, hauled limestone residue to farmers' fields to be used in fer-
tilizer, discipline, minor infractions of camp rules, few desertions, re-enlisted
twice, two six-month terms each, returned home to work in oil fields driving a
tank truck at five dollars an hour, got into the LP gas business, assessment of
time in the CCC-learned discipline and how to get along with your fellow
man and achieve self-assurance and also how to think and be resourceful,
planting a tree in honor of a CCC member at O'Leno State Park in Florida.
July 8, 1998
2! F -Open

miamel Prnrtnr Oral Hittnnr Prngrm Cataing nf Cnllprtinns 9nn,
Mike Tilghman
Worked in CCC camps at Hollandale (Mississippi), Panotch (Utah), Logandale
(Utah), Brooker (Florida)
Growing up in Oakland in Mississippi, dropped out of school in tenth grade
to run farm, drove truck and tractors on farm at age eight, impact of
Depression, family donated food from the farm, joined CCC in Hollandale,
Mississippi in 1935 at age seventeen to see the country, could not have a bank
account and get into the CCC, stationed at Panotch, Utah, and soon became
snow-bound, drove trucks at Hollandale camp, fights between companies, uni-
forms, winter camp in Logandale in Utah, in charge of and maintaining
equipment for building roads, summer camp on Charleston Mountain, Las
Vegas in the late 1930s, daily living in the Charleston Mountain camp, respon-
sibilities as a senior leader, meat hook accident, company served as firefighters
occasionally, National Forestry Service in charge during day and Army person-
nel in charge during camp hours, did not take advantage of educational classes
offered, exercises and company pranks, reasons that some left the CCC, med-
ical facilities, came to Florida to the Brooker camp in 1938 or 1939 but camp
closed in 1940 because Army took so many of its enlistees, became civilian
worker (construction and storekeeper) at (Army) Camp Landen, enlisted in
Navy in 1944 and served as a gunner on a merchant marine ship in the Pacific,
close calls on the ship, military-type discipline in CCC helped during war,
enlistees matured in CCC, returned to Brooker after war, CCC's Happy Dqys
newspaper, visiting the CCC camp in Olustee which was totally black, work in
CCC was not nearly as hard as working on the farm, biggest benefit from the
CCC was meeting his future wife, CCC's greatest accomplishments were plant-
ing trees and building parks and bridges, no negative CCC experiences, con-
sidered Roosevelt the best president ever.
January 27, 1999
54.,. -Open

Carroll F. Burnette
Worked in CCC camps at Cross City (Florida), Camp Middle Fork, Camp Old
Lodge in Santa Cruz Mountains, Camp Crane Flat near Yosemite, Camp Wawona
in Yosemite, North Fork (all in California)
Growing up in Columbia County in Florida, finished high school in 1938 in
Lake City, joined CCC in 1939, impact of Depression, inducted in Cross City
in Florida, physical examination, work duties as office clerk with pay raise,
uniforms, recreation, educational classes, transferred to California in 1940 via
an Army troop train, accidentally met up with brother on train and concealed
their relationship, new summer camp at Camp Middle Fork near El Portal
near Yosemite National Park, a tent city, then winter camp at Camp Old Lodge
in Santa Cruz Mountains, then Camp Crane Flat-another summer tent camp
near Yosemite, CCC grouped men according to geography based on areas of

Civilian CnnPsrvatinn Corps
origin, duties as company clerk, focus in California camps was "blister rust
control" on pine trees and fire protection and control, reserve Army officers
began to leave due to impending war, reduced enrollments caused some com-
panies to be disbanded and moved to other camps, volunteered for train clerk
in charge of personnel service records for enrollees returning east in I941,
transferred to Camp Wawona in Yosemite, then to North Fork Camp in
California, left CCC and got clerical job in Sierra National Forest headquar-
ters (1939-1942), educated on civil defense in camp after Pearl Harbor, North
Fork became camp for conscientious objectors, rejected for military service due
to a disability, entered University of Florida in 1945, learned office skills in
CCC, matured mentally without financial worry, thought of being "rescued"
by CCC during the Depression, National Association of CCC Alumni, author
of I Was in Roosevelt's Tree Army.
February 8, 1999
16 Pages-Open

Sam Taylor
Worked in CCC camps at Kernville (California), Shelbyville and Danville
Growing up in Boyle County in Kentucky, dropped out of high school in third
year to join CCC in 1937, impact of Depression, no money, just script, joined
to send twenty-five dollars back home, inducted at Fort Knox, sent to camp in
California to build road in Kern's Canyon toward Mt. Whitney, duties in
camp included sharpening jackhammer bits, entertainment, wrote letters for
others and read incoming letters to those who could not read, "going over the
hill" (desertions), left CCC and then signed up again and stationed in
Shelbyville and Danville in Kentucky, built fences and planted trees and con-
structed dams, had a car to go to and from home from camps, camp military
commanders, worked for Texas Oil Company in California for twenty years,
then utilities superintendent for UF in Florida, served in Belgium in World
War II in the Navy, German sub sank his ship in the English Channel, sent to
Scotland and then back to U.S., returned to Scotland on ammunition ship,
spent last days of war on battleship Iowa, skills learned in the CCC, benefits of
CCC, today's generation has it all.
March 23, 1999
17 Pages-Open

CCC 9 (see also CCC 12)
Sara O'Neal, Sam Thompson, Alfred Seymour
Worked in CCC camps at Olustee and Osceola National Forest (Florida)
What it was like for a black to wait in the train station, using phones at Olustee
camp, mail service, timbering vocabulary, skidders and lifting, reasons to join
the CCC included money to send back home and avoiding boredom, received
same pay as whites, moonshining in the woods, camp entertainment, about fif-

Samiel Prnrtnr Oral Hittnnr Prgram Catalng nf Cnllprtinns 9nn/
teen turpentine camps around Olustee, more reasons for joining CCC-
acquire skills and make something of yourself and get off the streets.
March 23, 1999
24 Pages-Open

CCC o10
Bernard Splichal
Worked in CCC camp at Whiting (Iowa)
Growing up in Bancroft in Nebraska and in Correctionville in Iowa, impact of
Depression, family operated a movie theater, joined CCC at age seventeen in
1937 to send money back home and needed the money personally to pursue
teaching career, money was put in a trust fund for later use, sent to Whiting,
Iowa, camp, assisted doctor with camp physical and surveyed drainage projects,
became camp librarian, camp focused on flood control and drainage and
fighting erosion, strictly Army supervision, sense of camaraderie, military
inspections of barracks, ten-hour physical labor in the fields, taught history
classes at night but not many attended, learned work ethic, foremen from
Corps of Engineers supervised the civil engineering work in the fields, latrine
and shower facilities, weekend entertainment, enlistees were a cross-section of
youth in the 1930s, effectiveness of CCC-transformed the youth and long-
range development / construction / beautification of country, disliked occa-
sional public attitude toward CCC enrollees, how CCC changed him-applied
himself and learned how to be self-supportive, effects of contour farming
developed by CCC, attended Wayne State College in Nebraska after leaving
CCC in 1938, enlisted in Army Air Corps, served as an aircraft mechanic, sig-
nificance of CCC-salvation for undirected youth, served in aircraft mainte-
nance supervision for twenty-six years.
March 24, 2000
24 Pages-Open

Richard Ives
Worked in CCC camps at Brooker (Florida), Capitola (California), Yosemite
National Park (California)
Growing up in Gainesville in Florida, dropped out of eighth grade,
Depression did not have too much of an impact, joined CCC to get away from
home disputes, sent to camp in Brooker (Camp 5441), joined CCC in 1939 at
age seventeen, but said he was eighteen, twenty-two dollars was sent home
monthly to family but able to keep eight dollars for personal expenses in camp,
at Brooker Camp CCC'ers built roads and put in telephone lines to fire towers
and dug up tree stumps, did not like backbreaking work so joined KP staff,
promoted from washing pots to washing dishes, had to have recommendations
to join CCC, with first six-month enrollment there was no choice of camps,
with second enrollment there was a choice, sent to Capitola camp near New
Brighton Beach in California for winter camp and then Yosemite National

Civilian CnnPsrvatinn Corps
Park for summer camp, trained to fight forest fires and dig gooseberries (spiny
shrub) to eradicate "blister rust" tree disease, some communities appreciated
having CCC'ers nearby, others did not, traveled to California on a troop train
which kept adding on more Pullman cars along the way for more CCC'ers,
training for being on fire suppression crew in California, sleeping in barracks
in Florida and Army tents in California, no camp boredom, CCC newspaper
Happy Dqys, only the older established camps had educational classes, female
camps called NYA, one in Ocala called Camp Roosevelt, many different
nationalities in CCC camps, got married at age seventeen, catching bears in
Yosemite, liked CCC's discipline and regimented routine, typical day in the
Brooker camp, results of CCC work everywhere, CCC got kids off the street,
CCC made him a better man-taught responsibility and how to get along with
June 19, 2000
30 Pages-Open

CCC 12 (see also CCC 9)
Sam Thompson (with Willie O'Neal)
Worked in CCC camps at Sandestin, Hilliard, Olustee (all in Florida)
Growing up in Miami (Overton section), got to eleventh grade, impact of
Depression was not too great except jobs were given to whites first, felt
President Roosevelt was a "godsend," if it had not been for the Depression,
there would have been no CCC, signed up at age nineteen in Gainesville
around 1936, eventually sent to camp at Olustee for African-Americans, the
recently opened camp for blacks after two others in Florida at Sandestin and
Chuluota, re-enrolled three times for six-month terms, ranks within the
CCC, "the Army was the CCC," segregated camps in same area with some
degree of interaction, private camps versus federal camps which had different
projects, cut roads through private forests to sawmills and turpentine stills and
also reforested on private lands, white administrators in these African-
American camps, hazing in camps, societal life in CCC camps reflected life
outside-blacks on the bottom, labor-intensive work duties, typical work day,
barracks and wash houses on par with the whites' facilities in other camps, did
not make moonshine, entertainment and sports, CCC newspaper, educational
classes, few desertions, medical facility at Lake City VA hospital, CCC trained
its enlistees well "discipline" for future service in the armed forces, CCC
would not work today, CCC's significance to American history-changed young
men's attitude and opened up new avenues.
June 19, 2000
37 Pages-Open

26_Samepl Prnrtnr Olral HIitnrn Prngram Catalng nf Cnllprtinn 9nn/
CCC 13
Harry Bush
Worked in CCC camps at Olustee (white camp in Florida)
Growing up in Tampa, impact of Depression, enlisted in CCC at age eighteen
for just one year, dropped out in the eleventh grade, joined CCC to send the
twenty-five dollars back home, inducted into CCC on Tybee Island in
Georgia, sent to primitive camp at Olustee in Florida, drop-out rate at begin-
ning of CCC's formation was high because camps were too far from enlistees'
homes, marked trees in Okefenokee Swamp for turpentine, thinning out areas
of trees and replanting trees, CCC reversed its policy and started to send enlis-
tees farther from home, buried animals after putting out forest fires, typical
day in camp, no educational classes in early stages of camp, could buy moon-
shine for one dollar and twenty-five cents a gallon, entertainment in Lake
City, types of work in and out of camp, officer staff, working with dynamite to
clear roads and stumps, quality crew leaders, fighting fires, desertions, trench
mouth epidemic which led to segregated tables in dining hall, barracks had no
plumbing or electricity, views on segregated camps, CCC was a great success
because it prepared men to be future soldiers, became better prepared to face
real world, Army and Navy and Marines sent letters to CCC'ers in camps to
recruit, CCC probably phased out due to war and it had achieved its purpose.
July 3, 2000
287.. -Open

Florida Everglades Restoration

Each of the following interview indexes of the Florida Everglades
Restoration (EVG) Project is comprised of brief phrases giving the
essence of the topics discussed. Topics in the index appear in the
same order as in the interview, thus serving as a general location
guide for the researcher interested only in certain portions of the

Copyright held by the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program. All
interviews, unless otherwise noted, are open and available for
use with proper attribution.

S_ amllpl Prnrtnr Olral HIitnrn Prngram Catalng nf Cnllprtinns 9nn/i
Walter A. "Tony" Rosenbaum
Professor, Political Science, UF (1962-present)
Beginning of involvement with Everglades, Social Science Working
Conference, First Lessons Learned Conference, institutional relations between
agencies involved, Army Corps of Engineers, Governor Lawton Chiles, public
opinion, environmental community.
February 13, 2001
19 Pages-Open

EVG 2 (see also FGM 3)
Nathaniel Reed
Member, South Florida Water Management District Governing Board (I978-pres-
Vice-Chairman, The Nature Conservancy and the National Audubon Society,
Assistant Secretary of the Interior (1971-1977)
Testimony before Senate Environment and Public Works Committee,
Talisman Sugar Plantation, Flo-Sun company, Malcolm "Bubba" Wade, initial
priorities for Everglades restoration, Lake Okeechobee, defeat of penny-a-
pound tax on sugar, phosphate pollution, EPA, Mary Barley, Fanjul brothers,
Everglades Agricultural Area, aquifer storage and recovery, South Florida
Water Management District, Michael Davis, Army Corps of Engineers, dis-
agreement between scientists, George W. Bush, Jeb Bush, Senator Bob
Graham, Senator Connie Mack, Commission for a Sustainable South Florida,
South Florida Restoration Task Force, coordination between various federal
and state agencies, Everglades Forever Act (1994), Dexter Lehtinen and lawsuit,
Save Our Everglades, newspaper/media coverage of Everglades issues, I,000
Friends of Florida, Reed's magazine Foresight, influence of and coordination
between environmental groups, lobbying by environmental groups, Wade
Hopping, mercury levels, algae blooms, use of pesticides, Rock Salt, National
Park Service.
December 18 and December 19, 2000
35 Pages-Open

Stuart Strahl
President, Florida Audubon Society
Educational background, career path to become president of Florida Audubon
Society, National Audubon Society, history of Florida Audubon Society,
beginning of involvement in Everglades issues, deterioration of Everglades,
Army Corps of Engineers, Michael Davis, Gale Norton, environmental
groups, Rachel Carson's :. ** ... ., public perception of environmental
groups, 1972 Water Resources Act, South Florida Water Management District,
1985 Growth Management Act, wetlands mitigation system, Surface Water
Improvement Management Act, South Florida Ecosystem Restoration Task

Flnrida Fvp'rghldp RpPtnratinn
Force, Governor's Commission for a Sustainable South Florida, Water
Resource Development Act, aquifer storage and recovery, Everglades
Coalition, Senator Bob Smith, Senator Bob Graham, Bruce Babbitt, Colonel
Terry Rice, Dick Ring, GovernorJeb Bush, agricultural interests, water pollu-
tion standards, defeat of Amendment Four (penny-a-pound tax), EPA leader-
ship, Lake Okeechobee, water conservation, growth management, Seminole
and Miccosukee tribes, environmental education, mercury levels, current
issues for board of Florida Audubon Society.
February 22, 2001
447... -Open

Colonel Terry Rice
Jacksonville District Engineer, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers
History of Everglades deterioration, Army Corps of Engineers, previous
Everglades restoration efforts, forming of Comprehensive Everglades
Restoration Plan (CERP), Marjory Stoneman Douglas, educational and pro-
fessional background, arrival and experiences in Jacksonville, Florida, as
District Engineer for Corps of Engineers, Clean Water Act, water quality stan-
dards, widening Route I from South Florida to the Florida Keys, balancing
environmental and development interests, Everglades restudy, South Florida
Restoration Task Force, Governor's Commission for a Sustainable South
Florida, Chiefs Report, response to criticisms of CERP, Tom MacVicar, natu-
ral systems model, water distribution, Army Corps of Engineers' relationship
with environmental community, George Barley, 1993 Restoration Task Force,
Modified Water Deliveries Project, relationship between the National Park
Service and the Corps of Engineers, Eight-and-a-Half-Square-Mile Area
issues, involvement of scientific community, relationship between Fish and
Wildlife Service, sugar industry and the Corps of Engineers, Iteration 7, Dick
Ring, Southern Everglades Restoration Alliance, Native American tribes, pub-
lic involvement in restoration efforts, Miami Herald rating of restoration effort,
involvement since leaving the Corps of Engineers, Everglades Forever Act,
future obstacles for restoration.
March 8, 2001
52 -Open

Malcolm "Bubba" Wade, Jr.
Senior Vice-President, U.S. Sugar Corporation
Position and involvement with U.S. Sugar Corporation, Dexter Lehtinen and
1988 lawsuit settlement, various other lawsuits, water quality standards,
Everglades Forever Act, science issues, Everglades Protection District, Florida
Crystals, Fanjul brothers, Florida Sugarcane League, Mary Barley, agricultural
pollution, impact of writers on environmental issues, Governor's Commission
for a Sustainable South Florida, Nathaniel Reed, Save Our Everglades, penny-

Samilel Prnrtnr Oral Hittnrn Prgram Catalng nf Cnllprtinns 9nn/
a-pound tax Amendment Four, public relations, Amendment Five, Everglades
Task Force, Comprehensive Everglades Restoration Plan, Army Corps of
Engineers, Michael Davis, Rock Salt, South Florida Water Management
District, Chiefs Report, Restudy Plan, water use plans, Bob Graham, Connie
Mack, Terry Rice, Miccosukee tribe, Talisman land purchase, flow-ways, best
management practices, use of aquatic crops to reduce phosphorus levels, burn-
ing sugar cane, mercury levels, future of sugar growing in area, Everglades
Agricultural Area, Governor Jeb Bush, relationship with environmental
groups, prognosis for restoration, education of public on Everglades issues.
April 3, 2001
45.,. -Open

Tom MacVicar
Deputy Director, South Florida Water Management District
Everglades Forever Act, change in Everglades management practices, Water
Management District's 2x2 model, Modified Water Deliveries Project, rain-
based model, natural system model, Lake Okeechobee, Everglades Agricultural
Area, backpumping water, Surface Water Improvement Management Act
(SWIM), Dexter Lehtinen, various lawsuits, Governor Lawton Chiles,
Statement of Principles Agreement, Frog Pond Area, relationship between
Water Management District board and staff, Sam Poole, Governor's
Commission for a Sustainable South Florida, Commission for the Everglades,
Army Corps of Engineers Restudy, Comprehensive Everglades Restoration
Plan, Chiefs Report, handling of drought and flood conditions, Eight-and-a-
Half-Square-Mile Area, water restrictions, South Florida water crisis, National
Park Service, sugar industry.
May 20, 2001
37 Pages-Open

John Ogden
Director, Florida Institute for Oceanography
Professor of Biology, University of South Florida
Founding member, Advisory Council of the Florida Keys National Marine
Board member, World Wildlife Federation
Current problems in Everglades, changes in management of Everglades,
Senator Bob Graham, Everglades Coalition, educational and career back-
ground, Everglades National Park, impact of hydrological patterns on wading
bird populations in Everglades, rain-based water delivery system, Fish and
Wildlife Service, relationship between species protection and ecosystem
restoration, Florida Bay, relationship between National Park Service and Army
Corps of Engineers, role of scientists in restoration, Key Largo Science
Conference, Everglades: The Ecosystem and Its Restoration, Dick Ring, South Florida

Flnrida Fvp'rghldp RpPtnratinn
Water Management District, Sam Poole, relationship between Water
Management District and Army Corps of Engineers, South Florida
Restoration Task Force, RECOVER, Task Force's Science Coordination Team,
Eight-and-a-Half-Square-Mile Area, Governor's Commission for a
Sustainable South Florida, GovernorJeb Bush's Commission for the
Everglades, restudy effort, alternative evaluation team, chiefs report,
Comprehensive Everglades Restoration Plan, species and habitat diversity,
obstacles to restoration.
Aprillo, 2001
42 Pages-Open

Estus Whitfield
Policy Coordinator, Office of Planning and Budgeting, Office of GovernorJeb
Environmental advisor to Governor Lawton Chiles and Governor Bob Graham
Contributing factors to present problems in Everglades, Central and Southern
Florida Project, Army Corps of Engineers, educational and professional back-
ground, relationship between state, Flood Control District, Corps of
Engineers, and National Park Service, I971 Governor's Conference on Water
Management, Comprehensive Planning Act, Florida Water Resources Act,
environmental community, Marjory Stoneman Douglas, JohnnyJones, Art
Marshall, Big Cypress National Preserve, accomplishments of 1970s, Senator
Bob Graham, Save Our Everglades, Lake Okeechobee, Kissimmee River
restoration, Everglades Coalition, 1985 Growth Management Act, urban
growth problems in Florida, Governor Bob Martinez, Dexter Lehtinen and
lawsuit, Surface Water Improvement and Management Act (SWIM), Everglades
Forever Act, Florida Preservation Act 2000, Governor Lawton Chiles, Chiles's
surrender in federal court, Miccosukee tribe, Water Resources Development
Act (WRDA), Florida Bay, penny-a-pound sugar tax, Buddy MacKay, Farm
Bill, Governor's Commission for a Sustainable South Florida, Dick Pettigrew,
GovernorJeb Bush, South Florida Restoration Task Force, Comprehensive
Everglades Restoration Plan, Talisman land purchase, aquifer storage and
recovery, impact of Army Corps of Engineers, South Florida Water
Management District, Department of the Interior, the environmental commu-
nity, the Miccosukee tribe, sugar industry, Everglades restoration, future
obstacles to restoration.
May 15, 2001
53 Pages-Open

Samilpl Prnrtnr Oral Hittnnr Prgram Catalng nf Cnllprtinns 9nn/
John C.Jones
President, Florida Wildlife Federation
Contributing factors to current problems in the Everglades, Central and
Southern Florida Project, educational and professional background, Florida
Wildlife Federation, Arthur Marshall, Lake Apopka, development and growth
in South Florida, Marshall Plan, Bob Graham, Save Our Everglades,
Kissimmee River restoration, Marjory Stoneman Douglas, Jones's effectiveness
as lobbyist, Big Cypress Swamp, I971 conference on water management,
Conservation and Recreation Lands (CARL) 7- .. i.. Preservation 2000,
GovernorJeb Bush, Save Our Rivers, Lake Okeechobee, back-pumping, Flood
Control District/Water Management District, sugar industry, Everglades
Coalition, Senator Connie Mack, Governor Lawton Chiles, Army Corps of
Engineers, Comprehensive Everglades Restoration Plan, Dexter Lehtinen,
changing attitudes toward Everglades Restoration, aquifer storage and recovery.
May 23, 2001
447... -Open

EVG io
Richard Pettigrew
Chairman, Governor's Commission for a Sustainable South Florida
Florida State Senate (1972-1974)
Speaker, Florida House of Representatives (1971-1972)
Florida state representative (1963-1972)
Family background and history, Governor Haydon Burns, experiences at UF,
service in U.S. Air Force in Korea, early commitment to civil rights, move to
Miami, 1963 campaign for Florida Legislature, changing nature of Florida
politics in I960s, general experiences in legislature, Governor Claude Kirk,
governmental reorganization in state legislature, Governor LeRoy Collins,
Constitutional Revision Commission, organization of Florida state cabinet,
Governor CharleyJohns, selection of state judges, home rule, taxation issues,
influence of lobbyists, consolidation of state agencies, efforts to get constitu-
tional revisions through legislature, decision to run and campaign for Speaker
of the Florida House, 1970 gubernatorial campaign, Governor Reubin Askew,
Land and Water Management Act, beginning of involvement in environmental
issues, Cross-Florida Barge Canal, busing, rise of Republican Party in Florida,
Elian Gonzales, decision to run for U.S. Senate in 1974, Ed Gurney, George
Hollahan, George McGovern, Mallory Home, Dick Stone, campaign platform
issues, reasons for losing race, Dante Fascell, Richard Nixon, W ..-i. ..-. Jimmy
Carter, Carter's campaign for Democratic nomination, 1976 presidential
campaign, HamiltonJordan, Panama Canal Treaty, Camp David Accords,
Carter's foreign policy, Carter's administrative skills and policies, decision to
run for U.S. Senate in 1980, Bill Gunter, 2000 presidential election, Gale
Norton, Governor's Commission for a Sustainable South Florida, Dexter
Lehtinen, Miccosukee tribe, Eight-and-a-Half-Square-Mile Area, Lehtinen

Flnrida Fvp'rghldp RpPtnratinn
lawsuit, Everglades Forever Act, Governor Lawton Chiles, Lake Okeechobee,
Lake Apopka, aquifer storage and recovery, Terry Rice, Dick Ring,
Environmental Protection Agency, South Florida Water Management District,
involvement of hydrologists and engineers, penny-a-pound sugar tax, Eastward
Ho, development in South Florida, mass transit, GovernorJeb Bush,
Everglades Commission, Wade Hopping, assessment of Everglades restoration
efforts, Pettigrew's assessment of his own career.
May 23, 2001
163 Pages-Open

EVG ii
Stuart Appelbaum
Chief, Ecosystem Restoration Section, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers,
Jacksonville District
Chief, Flood Control and Flood Plain Management, U.S. Army Corps of
Engineers, Jacksonville District (1989-1993)
Study and Project Manager, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, Jacksonville District
RECOVER branch of Army Corps of Engineers, water management problems
facing the Everglades, history of drainage works built in the Everglades, Central
and Southern Florida Project, South Florida Water Management District,
Kissimmee restoration, 1988 Dexter Lehtinen lawsuit, Everglades Forever Act,
C-5I project, Rock Salt, Hurricane Andrew, Everglades Coalition, interdisci-
plinary teams working on restoration, interagency cooperation, 1993-1994
reconnaissance study, Governor's Commission for a Sustainable South
Florida, restudy plan, Chiefs Report, comprehensive plan, aquifer storage and
recovery, Everglades Expansion Act, Water Resources Development Act, pro-
grammatic regulations, National Park Service, environmental community,
evaluation of restoration effort.
February 22, 2002
397... -Open

Ernie Barnett
Director, Ecosystems Projects, Florida Department of Environmental Protection
Manager, Surface Water Improvement Plan (SWIM)
Position held as director of ecosystems projects at the Florida Department of
Environmental Protection (DEP), involvement with Surface Water
Improvement Management Plan (SWIM), factors contributing to present
Everglades problems, Napoleon Bonaparte Broward, Comprehensive
Everglades Restoration Plan, Everglades Forever Act, Marjory Stoneman
Douglas, Dexter Lehtinen, Governor Lawton Chiles, DEP 1993 Ecosystem
Management Initiative, changes in ecosystem management, Lehtinen's lawsuit,
impact of litigation on SWIM, water pollution standards, funding of

Samiel Prnrtnr Oral Hittnnr Prgram Catalng nf Cnllprtinns 9nn/
Everglades Forever Act, comparison of management styles of Governor Jeb
Bush and Governor Chiles, changes at DEP, DEP Secretary Virginia Wetherell,
DEP Secretary David Struhs, relationship between DEP and South Florida
Water Management District, relationship between DEP and Army Corps of
Engineers, interaction between DEP, National Park Service and Fish and
Wildlife Service, accountability of various agencies involved in restoration, fed-
eral restoration task force, Governor's Commission for a Sustainable South
Florida, Talisman land holdings, restudy process and Comprehensive
Restoration Plan, getting legislation through Congress, aquifer storage and
recovery, means of measuring success, Federal-State Water Compact, Water
Resources Development Act, programmatic regulations, funding of programs,
obstacles to Everglades restoration.
February 1, 2002
86 Pages-Open

EVG 13
Michael Davis
Director of Everglades Restoration, U.S. Department of the Interior
Associate Director for Natural Resources, Council on Environmental Quality
Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Army for Civil Works
Chairman, White House Wetlands Working Group
Contributing factors to present Everglades problems, changes in management
efforts, educational and professional background, decision to join Army Corps
of Engineers, Corps's management of wetlands, changes in the Corps of
Engineers, work at the Council of Environmental Quality (CEQ), relationship
between Secretary of CEQ and the Chief of Engineers, involvement with
Everglades restudy process, Comprehensive Everglades Restoration Plan
(CERP), Water Resources Development Act (WRDA), obstacles in the restudy
process, interagency ecosystem management task force, Governor's
Commission for a Sustainable South Florida, South Florida Restoration Task
Force, relationship between task force and working group, criticism of restudy
plan, Chiefs Report, passage of legislation through Congress, role of Bill
Clinton and Al Gore, GovernorJeb Bush, Senator Bob Smith, Senator Bob
Graham, aquifer storage and recovery, means of measurement of success, deci-
sion to work for Department of the Interior, decision to leave Department of
the Interior, future obstacles to comprehensive plan.
March 6, 2002
64 Pages-Open

EVG 14
George Wedgworth
Owner, Manager, Wedgworth Farms
Founder, Sugar Cane Growers Cooperative of Florida
Family history, professional background, Sugar Cane Growers Cooperative of
Florida, 1947 hurricane flooding, Army Corps of Engineers, Central and

Flnrirla Fvp'rghldp RpPtnratinn
Southern Florida Project, priorities for addressing current Everglades prob-
lems, Everglades Agricultural Area, Water Resources Development Act
(WRDA), Michael Finley and National Park Service, Dexter Lehtinen, lawsuit,
Comprehensive Everglades Restoration Plan (CERP), Bob Graham, Save Our
Everglades, environmental quality committee of the Florida Sugar Cane
League, Surface Water Improvement Management Plan (SWIM), Everglades
Forever Act, Statement of Principles Agreement, divisions within the sugar
industry, Marjory Stoneman Douglas, water pollution standards, best manage-
ment practices, Amendment Four and Amendment Five, future of agriculture
in the Everglades, federal sugar subsidies, Talisman land holdings, National
Environmental Policy Act, Governor Lawton Chiles, Governor's Commission
for a Sustainable South Florida, evaluation of CERP, sugar growers' participa-
tion in restoration planning processes, Chiefs Report, passage of Everglades
Restoration legislation in Congress, GovernorJeb Bush, aquifer storage and
recovery, impact of Army Corps of Engineers, South Florida Water
Management District, National Park Service, the environmental community in
Everglades restoration, impact of media.
April 25, 2002
60o.. -Open

EVG 15
Donald Carson
Executive Vice-President, Florida Crystals
Educational and professional background, current position as executive vice-
president of Florida Crystals, contributing factors to current problems in the
Everglades, changes in agricultural and Everglades management policies, rela-
tionship between various groups involved in Everglades management, 1988
Dexter Lehtinen lawsuit, Everglades Forever Act, Surface Water Improvement
Management Plan (SWIM), Statement of Principles Agreement, Fanjul family,
Flo-Sun agreement with Department of the Interior, Governor Lawton
Chiles, Carol Browner, water quality pollution standards, Save Our
Everglades, relationship with environmental community, Amendment Four
and Amendment Five, future of agriculture in the Everglades, federal sugar
subsidy, Talisman land holdings, Governor's Commission for a Sustainable
South Florida, Malcolm "Bubba" Wade, Dick Pettigrew, GovernorJeb Bush's
Commission for the Everglades, restudy process leading to the Comprehensive
Everglades Restoration Plan (CERP), Army Corps of Engineers, Chiefs
report, efforts to get legislation passed, evaluation of CERP, impact of Army
Corps of Engineers, Department of the Interior, South Florida Water
Management District, Department of Environmental Protection, the environ-
mental community and the media on Everglades restoration, population
April 24, 2002
447.. -Open

Samilll Prnrtnr Olral Hiitnrn Prgram Catalng nf Cnllprtinns nn/i
EVG 16
Dick Ring
National Park Service Superintendent of Everglades National Park (1992-2000)
National Park Service Superintendent of Delaware Water Gap National Recreation
National Park Service Superintendent of Gates of the Arctic National Park
First interview: Working for National Park Service joined his interests in polit-
ical science and public administration and the outdoors, goals as superintend-
ent of Everglades National Park, restoration problem is not so much within
park boundaries but encroaching development to park borders, unlimited
amounts of money cannot assure park's future, must focus on regional
resource management and ecological interconnections, Comprehensive
Everglades Restoration Plan (CERP) (1998), significant events and commit-
ments that have promoted change, reasons for appointment as superintendent,
provisions of Consent Decree of 1992 (steps state of Florida had to take to
restore and preserve water quality in the Everglades), superintendent's role in
implementing the decree, Statement of Principles agreement of 1993, Big
Sugar as natural target, primary participants and organizations that wanted to
be involved in the negotiations, reasons why Statement of Principles fell apart,
evaluation of Everglades Forever Act (1994), Florida Bay's involvement in col-
lapse of Everglades ecosystem, Everglades summation phrase regarding water:
"QQTD" (quantity, quality, timing, and distribution), C-III Canal Basin
project issues (modifying C-III canal to improve sheetflow of water to Taylor
Slough and Florida Bay), Frog Pond controversy, evaluation of current status
of Florida Bay, Modified Water Deliveries Project problems (to restore hydrol-
ogy of the national park), trying to keep two distinct populations of the Cape
Sable sparrow, instances of National Park Service at odds with Fish and Wildlife
Service (both agencies of Department of the Interior).

Second interview: Federal South Ecosystem Restoration Task Force of 1993
(includes eleven federal agencies), expansion of task force in 1996 (includes
state, local and tribal representatives), role of Secretary of the Interior Bruce
Babbitt, contribution of task force to overall restoration, effect of Governor's
Commission (established by Governor Lawton Chiles in 1994), Conceptual
Plan issues (1996), controversy over Army Corps of Engineers' process to cre-
ate the Comprehensive Plan (CERP) (1998), answers argument that the needs
of the national park have to be met over and above restoration goals, political
issues versus scientific issues in dealing with the Everglades' restoration, social
science analysis in decision-making process on restoration issues, problem of
changing personnel in national parks and its effect on maintaining the
momentum (specifically, Everglades restoration), evaluation of agencies and
industries and Native Americans involved with restoration, most important
goals of the restoration project, lessons learned from being superintendent.
May 17, 2002 and Juy 25, 2002
61 Poges-Open

Flnrida Fvp'rghldp RpPtnratinn
EVG 17
Bill Leary
Associate Director, Natural Resources on Council of Environmental Quality (CEQ)
Assistant to the Assistant Secretary. Fish and Wildlife in National Park Service in the
Department of the Interior (1994-1999)
Contributing factors that led to Everglades problems (Army Corps of
Engineers and South Florida interest groups), actions decades ago had "unin-
tended consequences," Everglades once viewed as a "worthless swamp" which
led to creation of Everglades Agricultural Area (EAA), Everglades will always
have to be a managed system, Water Resources Development Act (WRDA) of
2000, turning points that promoted change in thinking about need for
restoration, Governor Bob Graham's Save Our Everglades program (1983),
employment background relating to Everglades issues, Florida Legislature's
passage of Marjory Stoneman Douglas Everglades Protection Act (I990),
worked on restoration plan for Everglades while in Department of the
Interior, opinion of Everglades Forever Act (1994), drawbacks to Everglades
Forever Act, environmental groups' animosity toward Secretary of the Interior
Bruce Babbitt as a result of this act, personal involvement with South Florida
Ecosystem Restoration Task Force (1993) and its expansion, evaluating task
force leadership styles, importance of Governor's Commission and
Conceptual Plan (1996), Babbitt Plan for restoration (1996), White House
involvement, Farm Bill of 1966 (land acquisition), Talisman land acquisition
coinciding with fiftieth anniversary of Everglades National Park (I997), Water
Resources Development Act (1996), Army Corps of Engineers' involvement
with Comprehensive Everglades Restoration Plan (CERP), tensions between
Army Corps of Engineers and Department of the Interior regarding CERP
interests, details of new Water Resources Development Act (200o), state of
Florida versus federal implementation, selling the restoration of the Everglades
as "America's Everglades," key state and federal supporters ofWRDA (2000),
challenges of Everglades' future (funding and satisfying all interest groups),
Eight-and-a-Half-Square-Mile controversy, responsibilities of Secretary of the
Interior versus Superintendent of Everglades National Park, lessons learned
from Everglades restoration applied to other ecosystems around the country,
most important goals of restoration.
May 16, 2002
74 .. -Open

EVG 18
Michael Collins
Chairman, Governing Board of the South Florida Water Management District
Chairman, Keys National Marine Sanctuary Citizen Advisory Council (I992-1996)
Describes extensive background as advisor to various commissions related to
the Florida Keys, factors that led to problems in the Everglades (innocent

_amilpl Prnrtnr Oral Hittnnr Program Catalng nf Cnllprtinns 9nn,
ignorance, naivete, denial), watershed events that prompted restoration (per-
ceived destruction of Florida Bay), specific problems with Florida Bay, shocked
to learn that restoration would not solve all the Everglades' problems, impor-
tance of making scientific decisions throughout the Everglades system, realized
that "we're all part of the problem" and also "part of the solution," feels that
the National Park Service does not deal well with marine environments, would
like to see more accountability and more responsibility on the part of all agen-
cies and scientists involved in restoration, views Everglades as being on "life
support" forever, development of Keys National Marine Sanctuary (established
1990), lessons learned from sanctuary establishment applied to broader
restoration effort, evaluation of Everglades Forever Act (1994), responsibilities
of South Florida Water Management District on that act, has misgivings about
Department of Environmental Protection's endorsement often parts per bil-
lion standard for phosphorous, involvement with Governor's [Lawton Chiles]
Commission for Sustainable South Florida (I994-1999), involvement with
Governor's [Jeb Bush] Commission for the Everglades and comparing the two
governors' commissions, contribution of the federal South Florida Restoration
Task Force, events leading to appointment to the South Florida Water
Management District's (SFWMD) governing board, types of decisions made by
governing board, difficulties in resolving the Eight-and-a-Half-Square-Mile
Area issue, plight of the Cape Sable seaside sparrow, evaluation of restudy
process that led to Comprehensive Plan (CERP) (1998), federal cost sharing,
problems of SFWMD funding part of restoration, land acquisition priorities,
creation of Water Resources Advisory Commission (under SFWMD) in 2001,
role of public in restoration effort, working relationship between Army Corps
of Engineers and SFWMD, evaluation of the State Federal Water Compact
(2002) signed by President George W. Bush and his brother, GovernorJeb
Bush, evaluating success or failure of Comprehensive Plan (CERP), evaluating
overall impact of specific groups (National Park Service, Army Corps of
Engineers, sugar industry, environmentalists, Miccosukees) in the Everglades
restoration, goals and priorities of Everglades restoration, obstacles of restora-
tion, personal lessons learned in Everglades experience (have patience).
June 11, 2002
72.. -Open

EVG i9
George T. Frampton, Jr.
Chairman, Council on Environmental Quality (1999-2001)
Assistant Secretary, Interior for Fish, Wildlife and Parks (1993-1997)
President, Wilderness Society (1986-1993)
Law clerk for Harry A. Blackman, U.S. Supreme Court justice (early 1970s)
Assistant Special Prosecutor, T\ ...- i- prosecution (I973-I975)
Describes extensive background with Council on Environmental Quality
(under President Clinton) and working for the Department of the Interior,
involvement with Everglades issues as president of the Wilderness Society, move

Flnrida Fvp'rgh dP Rpotnratinn
to Department of the Interior to see the "real action," which meant going from
environmental advocate to taking federal government's stance, role of Army
Corps of Engineers, importance of dealing with restoration effort over lawsuit
(federal government suing state of Florida in 1988 over Everglades water pollu-
tion), concern over giving the Army Corps of Engineers the primary restora-
tion mission when it was that same government agency that created many of the
problems in the Everglades initially, personal vision of Everglades restoration,
Statement of Principles Agreement (1993), sugar versus phosphorus polluters,
feels that environmental groups should not focus on punishing sugar but focus
more on restoring Everglades, evaluation of Everglades Forever Act (1994),
involvement (chairman) with federal South Florida Restoration Task Force
(1993), Colonel Rock Salt of the Army Corps of Engineers as executive direc-
tor of task force, impact of task force's expansion in 1996, Secretary of the
Interior Bruce Babbitt's influence and interest on restoration, task force's pri-
mary contribution to define objectives and keep up the time pressure, impor-
tance of 1994 Governor's Commission for a Sustainable South Florida
(Governor Lawton Chiles), relationship between Secretary of the Interior
Bruce Babbitt and Governor Chiles, Governor Chiles's appointments to South
Florida Water Management District (SFWMD), Gore Plan (1996), federal
intra-agencies tension defending different interests, involvement with Water
Resources Development Act (1996), Army Corps of Engineers' restudy that led
to the Comprehensive Plan (CERP) (1998), reasons for leaving position at
Department of the Interior and becoming chairman of Council of
Environmental Quality (under President Clinton), obstacles in implementing
CERP, indicators to CERP's success or failure (species and habitat restoration,
natural flows, health of Everglades), evaluation of various agencies (SFWMD,
sugar industry, Miccosukees, environmentalists), lessons learned from
Everglades experience (must have clear vision and realistic ideas, involve stake-
holders, make compromises, have national support and good leadership on all
July 22, 2002
50 ... -Open

Florida Business Leaders

Each of the following interview indexes of the Florida Business
Leaders (FBL) Project is comprised of brief phrases giving the
essence of the topics discussed. Topics in the index appear in the
same order as in the interview, thus serving as a general location
guide for the researcher interested only in certain portions of the

Copyright held by the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program. All
interviews, unless otherwise noted, are open and available for
use with proper attribution.

Flnrida RilqinP |, I Padper
Alfred A. McKethan
Member, Florida State Road Board
President, Florida Banker's Association (1947)
President, Chairman of the Board, Hernando State Bank
Graduate, University of Florida (1931)
Family history, college education, Florida land boom and Depression in
Florida, experiences as a student at UF, Walter Matherly, involvement in bank-
ing business, Fuller Warren, involvement in gubernatorial campaigns of Fuller
Warren, duties as member of State Road Board, Florida Turnpike develop-
ment, taxes, illness preventing entrance into the 1952 race for governor, Ed
Ball, Florida Citrus Mutual, mining business, Florida Water Management
Districts, 1988 presidential election, President Ronald Reagan, gifts to UF.
July 9, 1987
30 Pages-Open

William "Billy" H. Dial
Member, State Road Board
Chairman of the Board, SunBank Network
Attorney, Akerman & Palmer and Akerman, Dial & Akerman
Member, Board of Control
Organizer, First National Bank at Orlando
Graduate, University of Florida and University of Florida College of Law
Family history, childhood in Gainesville, experiences as undergraduate and law
student at UF, law practice in Orlando, founding of First National Bank at
Orlando, Depression in Florida, service with the National Guard and in Army
during World War II, Dan McCarty, selection ofJ. Wayne Reitz as president of
UF, building of president's home at UF, revision of Florida banking laws, serv-
ice on State Road Board and building of the Florida Turnpike, Walt Disney's
purchase of land near Orlando, Governor Haydon Burns, Martin-Marietta
Corporation, formation of SunBank Network, establishment of Florida
Technological University (later University of Central Florida), activities of
children and grandchildren.
September 15, 1987
35 Pages-Open

Ben Hill Griffin, Jr.
Minute Maid Board of Directors, member
Owner of citrus groves, processing plants, cattle ranches
Candidate, Governor of Florida (1974)
Florida State Senator (1964-1968)
Florida State House of Representatives, member (1956-1964)
Student, University of Florida (1930-1933)

ISmilel Prnrtnr Oral Hittnnr Prngrm Cataing nf Cnllprtinns qnna
Family history, Frostproof, Florida, in late I9th and early 20th centuries,
Florida economic boom, student experiences at UF, social life of students at
UF, JohnJ. Tigert, work in fruit-packing house, involvement in citrus indus-
try, development of citrus concentrates, purchase and management of Lake
Wales Country Club, campaign and election as state representative, service as
state representative and state senator, corporate income tax, Governor Reubin
Askew, candidacy for governor of Florida, relationship with UF.
August12, 1988
41 Pages-Open

Alpheus Lee Ellis
Senior Chairman of the Board, NCNB National Bank of Florida
Founder, Ellis Banking Corporation
Director, Federal Reserve Bank, Atlanta, Georgia
Member, Federal Reserve Board, Jacksonville, Florida
Family history, childhood jobs, move to Florida to work in bank, bank closings
during Depression, Ed Ball, DuPont interests in banking, Ed Ball's relation-
ship with Claude Pepper, DuPont family trust, purchase and control of various
banks around Florida, Monroe Kimball, family, charitable giving to various
recipients, George Jenkins and Publix, J. Neil Greening, Ben Hill Griffin,
manner and style of doing banking business, Jim Walter, involvement withJim
Walter Corporation, NCNB merger, real estate ownership, involvement with
local hospital, testimony given in Fred Dickinson case, leisure activities.
December 2, 1988
51 Pages-Open

Marshall McDonald
Chairman of the Board, Chief Executive Officer, Florida Power and Light
Chairman of the Board, Colonial Penn Group
Member, Florida Council of 0oo
Co-chairman, Business Subcommittee, White House Conference on Aging
Vice-President, Sinclair Oil and Gas Corporation
Graduate, Wharton Business School, University of Pennsylvania
Graduate, University of Florida and University of Florida Law School
Family history, move to Florida as a child, real estate and business dealings of
father, Florida hurricanes of 1926 and 1928, schooling and social life, experi-
ences and social life as student at UF, classes taken at UF, service in military
police unit and parachute infantry unit of the Army, service in World War II,
experiences at Wharton Business School, job with accounting firm in Houston,
work in Houston law firm, JesseJones, various job positions held in mortgage
and consulting businesses, jobs held with oil companies, marriages, acceptance
of job as president of Florida Power and Light Company, McGregor Smith,

Flnrida Riiinp |c I padper
Florida Power and Light Company in the I920s through 1940s, size and
growth of Florida Power and Light, Depression in Florida, regulation of utili-
ties by state and federal government, unionization, general information on
management and running of Florida Power and Light, sources of fuel, nuclear
power plants, employee morale and benefits, management of utilities compa-
ny, Quality Improvement Program, employment of minorities, formation of
Florida Power and Light Group holding company, holdings of Florida Power
and Light Group, future of Florida Power and Light, environmental issues,
service on White House Conference on Aging, political attitudes, Bernarr
McFadden, political contributions and involvement, involvement in education
and charitable giving, views of future and personal philosophies.
March 21 and 22, 1989
98 Pages-Open

Godfrey Smith
President, Capital City Bank Group, Inc.
President and Chairman of the Board, Capital City First National Bank, Tallahassee
Member, Federal Reserve Board, Jacksonville
President, Florida Banker's Association
Charter Director, Florida State University Foundation
Graduate, University of Florida, College of Business
Member, Florida Blue Key
Family history, childhood in Tallahassee, student experiences at UF, first job at
Capital City Bank, work at Pentagon in Army finance during World War II, job
duties after discharge from Army, growth of Tallahassee in the late 1940s and
early 1950s, various aspects of running a bank and banking, changes in bank-
ing business, formation and growth of Capital City Bank Group, Inc. holding
company, history of Capital City Bank, service on theJacksonville branch of
the Federal Reserve Board, service on the State Turnpike Authority, views on
the future of society and banking, community involvement, growth of Florida.
July 27, 1989
627.. -Open

James Thomas Gurney, Sr.
Member, Board of Control
President, Orlando Chamber of Commerce
General Counsel, Orlando Utilities Commission, Florida Telephone Corporation,
Stetson University
Member, Florida Council of 0oo
Member, American Bar Association
President (1942-1943), Member, Florida Bar Association
Family history, schooling, Senator James Vardaman, experiences at
Columbia University and in New York City, experiences at the

mlamel Prnrtnr Oral Hittnnr Prngram Catalng nf Cnllrtinns qnna
University of Chicago and Cumberland University Law Schools, decision
to move to Florida to practice law, practicing law in Plant City and
Orlando, general information on the practice of law, service on the
Board of Control, building of the Citrus Bowl, Governor Millard
Caldwell, Senator Claude Pepper, John J. Tigert, conditions at UF after
World War II, obtaining funding for state universities, various functions
of the Board of Control, J. Hillis Miller, process of selecting new presi-
dent at UF, establishment of medical center at UF, integration at UF,
Alex Ackerman, Virgil Hawkins, service in the Florida Bar Association,
community service, establishment of Walt Disney World, Minute Maid
Corporation, citrus industry, processing of citrus, religion, philanthro-
py, politics, views on the future.
February 23, 1990
go Pages-Open

FBL 8 (see also FBL 19)
Marshall Edison Rinker, Sr.
Founder, Owner, Rinker Materials
Family history, childhood, job in General Motors plant, travel around
country, arrival in Florida in 1925, early development in Florida, vari-
ous jobs held in Florida in I920s, Florida hurricanes of 1926, 1928 and
1935, construction business, A.V. Hansen, concrete and rock business,
Depression in Florida, Works Progress Administration (WPA), develop-
ment of cement block, Camp Blanding, West Palm Beach, military
development business, growth of concrete business, Ed Ball, building
and location of cement plants, labor unions, management of various
departments and districts, general information regarding the manage-
ment of Rinker Materials, mergers with other companies, location of
raw materials and natural resources, selling of business, philosophies of
life, philanthropic activities, politics, Marshall Criser.
March 9 and 10, 1990
137 Pages-Open

Herbert Hill Peyton
Founder, Gate Petroleum Company
Owner, Epping Forest & Blount Island Shipyard
Owner, Ponte Vedra Inn & Club
Member, Florida Council of 0oo
Student, University of Florida
Family history, childhood, college experiences at University of the South
and UF, working for Billups Service Stations, opening and operating of
own service station in Jacksonville, growth of company, "Gate Brothers,"
purchase of roofing company, involvement in real estate, purchase of
Ponte Vedra Inn and Club, purchase and development of Epping Forest

Flnrida Rllginpe | I Padper
(DuPont estate), purchase of Blount Island, company stock and financ-
ing of business ventures, children and marriages, community involve-
April 6, 1990
95 Pages-Open

FBL io
Joe B. Cordell
Audit Manager, Price Waterhouse Corporation
Vice-President, Sr. Vice-President, Treasurer, President, Chief Operating Officer,
Chief Executive Officer, Jim Walter Corporation
Member, Board of Directors, Royal Trust Bank of Tampa
Member, Board of Directors, General Instrument Corporation
Member, Board of Directors, Florida Steel Corporation
President, University of Florida Foundation
Member, Florida Council of 0oo
Student, University of Florida
Family history, education, service in the Navy, experiences at UF, job with
Price Waterhouse in New York City, founding ofJim Walter Corporation,
operation ofJim Walter Corporation, decision to work forJim Walter
Corporation, Celotex, acquisition of building materials companies, coal min-
ing operations, various industries and businesses acquired byJim Walter
Corporation, finances and dealings ofJim Walter Corporation, litigation, var-
ious corporate boards served on, involvement with UF, Robert Lanzillotti,
involvement with the UF Foundation, Dr. Robert Marston, political involve-
ment, Governor Claude Kirk.
August 8, 1990
86 Pages-Open

FBL ii
John D. Uible
President, Florida National Bank
Student, School of Building Construction, University of Florida
Family history, early education, work with father in real estate business, experi-
ences at UF in building construction school, formation and operation of
Charter Mortgage Company, acquisition ofJacksonville National Bank and St.
Joe Paper Company, beginning operations of bank, formation and operation of
Alliance Corporation, Mac McGriff, acquisition of additional banks, Ed Ball,
George Whitner, Chemical Bank, becoming head of Florida National Bank,
banking laws, relationship with banking customers, recruitment of workers, per-
formance of company and stock, growth in Florida, I980s inflation, tax code
revision and loans, foreign loans, merger with First Union Corporation, retire-
ment, employees, years at Charter specializing in construction loans.
March 1, 1991
66 Pages-Open

Samilll Prnrtnr Olral Hi-tnrn Prngrm Catalng nf Cnllprtinns 9nni
James G. Moxon
Owner, various lumber companies
Family history, education, experiences as student at Clemson University, job in
Lake Butler at sawmill in 1930s, impact of the Depression, starting and run-
ning of Ocala Lumber Sales Company, Ocala during 1930s, purchase of land,
types of wood used and process of harvesting wood, Leesburg Building
Materials Company, Orlando Lumber Company, unions, cattle company,
problem of fire, game animals on land, collaboration with UF and IFAS
(Institute for Food and Agricultural Sciences), uses for trees on land, environ-
mentalists, market for lumber, Goethe family.
May 20, 1991
57 Pages-Open

FBL 13
Robert H. Axline
Brown Shoe Company (Buster Brown)
Family history, childhood, education, experiences as secretary for railroad compa-
ny, experiences at Purdue University, job as engineer with Arvin Industries in
Indianapolis, National Recovery Administration (NRA), job with Brown Shoe
Company, types of shoes produced, wife, production for military during World
War II, training programs for employees, growth of Brown Shoe Company (Buster
Brown, Naturalizer) and its stock, international expansion of Brown Shoe
Company, process of producing shoes, decision to retire to Florida, politics.
May 23, 1991
143 Pages-Open

FBL i4
Alfred D. Boyd
Cattle rancher, various other businesses
Family slaughtering and leather goods business, Governor Doyle Carlton,
orange groves business, real estate, experiences at UF in the College of
Engineering, cattle-raising in Florida, formation and growth of Pinellas
County, family history, fencing laws, cattle lobbying in Tallahassee, Lykes
slaughtering business, problems with ticks and dipping of cattle, screw worm
infestation, fruit fly infestation, beginning of radio antenna business,
Depression, real estate land holdings, Florida tax certificates and real estate
taxes, service as a military policeman during World War II, Camp Blanding,
German prisoners of war, Curlew City and Tarpon, purchase of real estate,
Boot Ranch, quality of Florida beef, Brahman cattle, Duda family, interna-
tional shipping of cattle, Doyle Connor, process of shipping cattle, women
working with cattle, Lois Oxnam as ranch manager, development of listening
device, religion and Billy Graham, politics, work with Mexican border patrol.
June 22, 1992
127 Pages-Open

Flnrida Rllinpe | I Padper
FBL 15
Jacob C. Belin
President, President of Sales, Vice-President of Marketing, St. Joe Paper Company
Mayor, Port St. Joe, Florida
Family background, father's turpentine business, childhood, Governors Sidney
Catts and Doyle Carlton, Chautauqua, Governor Millard Caldwell, experi-
ences as student at George Washington University, jobs in U.S. Copyright
Office and in Millard Caldwell's office in Washington, Senator Claude Pepper,
job with St. Joe Paper Company, Ed Ball, Alfred DuPont, involvement in
shipping paper under lend-lease program, movement into sales and promo-
tion with St. Joe Paper Company, various paper products manufactured,
development of packaging to ship foods, business dealings of the DuPonts and
Ed Ball, development of highway system, development of railroads in Florida,
laborers and unions, women employed in company, sales of new packaging
products, demand for new paper products, generosity of Ed Ball, Ed Ball's
marriage, Belin's business dealings with Ed Ball, service as mayor of Port St.
Joe, Governors Fuller Warren and Cary Hardee, South Carolina Senator
Ellison Smith, St. Joe Land Development Company, Ed Ball's feelings on
integration, Ed Ball's banking business, dealing with Ed Ball's death and his
estate, service as president of St. Joe Paper Company, Governors Dan McCarty
and CharleyJohns, role of Ed Ball in George Smathers-Claude Pepper cam-
paign, Governor Claude Kirk, Robert King High, Belin's role in DuPont
operations, Alfred I. DuPont Testamentary Trust, Nemours Health Clinic,
funding provided for hospitals and health clinics, changes on the boards of
trustees, government involvement and regulation, welfare, taxes, foreign
affairs, CongressmanJoe Sears, political views, various Florida business and
political figures.
August13, 1992
170 Pages-Open

FBL 16
John Dasburg
CEO, Northwest Airlines
Student, University of Florida
Childhood, interest in business, service in Navy, views on Vietnam War, stu-
dent experiences at UF, job with Peat Marwick, job with Marriott, Gary Wilson,
Fred Malek, J. Willard Marriott, Marriott's restaurant businesses, Marriott
hotels, Marriott Marquis in New York City, Fairfield Inns, financial aspects of
Marriott, decision to leave Marriott and work for Northwest Airlines, death of
daughter, saving Northwest Airlines from bankruptcy, safety record of airline,
unions, pilot training, inspection of planes, baggage handline, pilot's strike,
President Bill Clinton, alliances with Continental Airlines and KLM, regional
carriers, airline service, charitable contributions.
459.. -Open

_miamll Prnrtnr Oral HiRtnnr Prngrm Catalng nf Cnllprtinns 9nn/
FBL 18
Kenneth Keene
Vice-President, Metropolitan Life Insurance Company (1967-1987)
Graduate, University of Florida
Family history, childhood and early education, experiences at UF, service in
the Navy, return to finish education at UF after World War II, graduate school
in actuarial sciences at the University of Michigan, G.I. Bill, job with Aetna
Life Insurance Company in Hartford, various insurance plans, decision to
leave Aetna, job with Wyatt Company, job with Alexander & Alexander in New
York City, 40o(k) plans, decision to leave Alexander & Alexander to work for
Metropolitan Life Insurance Company, job withJohnson & Higgins company,
promotion within Johnson & Higgins, retirement, service with the
Employment Benefit Research Institute, philanthropy at UF, politics.
January 19, 2000
61 Pages-Open

FBL 20
S. Clark Butler
President, Butler Enterprises
Chairman of the Board, Gainesville State Bank (now Compass Bank)
Mayor, City of Gainesville (1954-1955)
Commissioner, City of Gainesville (1950s)
Family history, childhood, move to Gainesville, family produce market during
Depression, growth of grocery business, asked to run for city commissioner,
repercussions of grocery fire (April 1953), entering the contracting and devel-
oping business in Gainesville as Butler Brothers Builders (1954), turning from
house-building to apartment-building, Gainesville State Bank (1975), bank's
growth, prostate cancer, negotiating with Compass Bank over Gainesville State
Bank, building Gainesville apartment complexes, construction of shopping
centers in Gainesville and elsewhere in Florida, "most important project"-
transforming old Stengel Field Airport into Butler Shopping Plaza
(Gainesville), Wal-Mart, mobile home park issue, developing Archer Road I-
75 interchange, development of Butler Plaza (biggest of its kind in Florida),
controversy over Sears and the Oaks Mall, reasons for Butler Plaza's success,
involvement with title insurance law and state law ruled unconstitutional, expe-
rience as a local politician, philosophy of government, gubernatorial appoint-
ments to various state boards (State Department of Transportation Advisory
Board, Marine Fish Commission, State Pension Fund Advisory Board), per-
sonal history, business with daughter Deborah Butler, $1.5 million donation to
UF, relationships to UF presidents.
Moa 31, 2002
122 Pages-Open

Flnrida RiiinP |c I Padper
FBL 21
Joan Dial Ruffier
Chairperson, Member, Florida Board of Regents (1985)
Daughter of William "Billy" H. Dial
Student, University of Florida
Childhood, attended UF, influential UF professors, father (William "Billy" H.
Dial): Board of Control, Johns Committee, law career, SunBank, Interstate 4
and secret land purchases for Disney Reedy Creek Improvement District,
impact of Walt Disney World on Orlando and Florida; serving on the Board of
Regents (1985) and as chairperson, issue of equitable funding in the State
University System (SUS), "perceived lack of quality in our [Florida] universi-
ties", demands from each university, issue of funding the universities, quality
of education versus increased enrollment, need for more trade schools, Public
Education Capital Outlay (PECO), lobbying the Florida Legislature for funds,
problem of "matching funds," John Lombardi as UF president, "bank" system
at UF, evaluating Charlie Reed and Adam Herbert (chancellors of State
University System), elimination of the Board of Regents and politicization of
its replacement, issue of tenure, proposed Board of Governors, lobbying rep-
resentation for each Florida university, comparison of Florida's SUS with
other state university systems, Florida Comprehensive Assessment Test
(FCAT), comparative salaries for athletic coaches and faculty, UF Foundation,
fund raising for UF libraries, serving on the Federal Reserve Board, positions
on other boards, University of Central Florida, Shands expansion, future of
higher education in Florida.
June 4, 2002
507... -Open

FBL 22
Allen L. Lastinger, Jr.
President and CEO, Executive Vice-President for Community Banking in
Jacksonville Gainesville Branch President, Barnett Bank (1976)
Established Allen L. Lastinger Undergraduate Scholarship at UF
Graduate, University of Florida
Family history, childhood, undergraduate at UF, Navy enlistment (1966), and
experience aboard the U.S.S. John F. Kennedy in the Mediterranean Sea, view of
Vietnam war, UF graduate student, first job out of school at Barnett Bank
(I971), Barnett Bank's expansion opportunity due to Florida branch banking
law (I974), president of Gainesville branch of Barnett Bank (1976), lack of
experience, vice-president for Community Banking inJacksonville (1980),
banking income and strategies, Barnett's foray into insurance and securities
operations, Barnett Bank's growth, promotions within Barnett Bank, CEO
Charlie Rice, banking philosophy of the Barnett family, Charles Zwick and
Southeast Bank Corporation, Guy Bott, the Barnett family, Ed Ball, post-
World War II changes in Florida banking, Federal Reserve Board merger
denied and the impact of the Bank Holding Company Act, pioneer of ATM

Samiel Prnrtnr Oral Hittnnr Prgram Catalng nf Cnllprtinns 9nn/
machines in early 1980s, banking charges, women and minorities in banking
post-World War II, low interest rates of 2002 and high interest rates of 1980,
aftermath of the savings and loan scandal, smaller banks' viability, Regional
Reciprocal Banking Act of 1984, turnabout of Barnett Bank at low economic
point in late 1980s, answeringJustice Department claims of discrimination in
lending practices, consolidation of branch banks, banking dynamics, sale of
Barnett Bank to NationsBank (1997), Barnett Bank ending (January 9, 1998),
Barnett Historical Preservation Foundation as a legacy, UF Foundation Board
of Directors, fund raising for UF, Lastinger Family Foundation, life in retire-
ment, future projects, banking ethics in the face of news-making scandals in
other kinds of institutions.
November 12, 2002
40 Pages-Open

FBL 23
J. Quinton Rumph
Partner, Rumph, Stoddard, & Christian law firm
EstablishedJ. Quinton and Ann S. Rumph Scholarship Fund, UF, College of Law
Graduate, University of Florida, College of Law
Florida during the Depression, sugar cultivation, childhood in the 1920s,
charitable donations to Advent Christian Villages, College of Education at UF,
Florida Southern College, brother working for CCC during Depression,
attends Florida Southern, World War II U.S. Navy service, witnesses Japan's
surrender, G.I. Bill, law education, Clarence Terselle, George Proctor, bank-
ruptcy law, Archie Carter, Rumph, Stoddard and Christian law firm, motel
ownership, Jacksonville politics, American Title Insurance Company, CSX
Transportation representation, changes in the law profession, importance of
academic scholarships, changes at Florida Southern College.
November 5, 2002
299'. -Open

FBL 24
Luther W. Coggin, Jr.
Founder, Coggin Investment Corp.
Founder, Coggin Automobiles
Family history, childhood, early aspirations to the ministry, decision to see
used cars, marriage at age 19, going into an Oldsmobile car dealership business
with father, different sales philosophy emphasizing the importance of pleasing
the customer, buying out father's percentage of dealership, forming a new-
used car business, applying for an Oldsmobile dealership in Marianna (1967),
offered Pontiac dealership inJacksonville (1968), personal history, assembling
a strongly moral staff for new Coggin Pontiac dealership, Coggin Investment
Corporation, President Gerald Ford staying in Coggin house (November 2,
1975), Ford's meeting with President Anwar Sadat (Egypt) and wifeJihan,
fund-raising for Bush brothers, purchase of other car dealerships in

Flnrida Rllginpe | I Padper
Jacksonville and other parts of Florida and Georgia, Coggin dealerships that
failed, Coggin Automotive Group going public on stock market (2002), pur-
chasing hotels, personal aircraft, philanthropic endeavors such as church and
University of North Florida (Coggin College of Business) and scholarships
(Terrye Coggin Proctor Scholarship), retirement, Prime F. Osborne III
Distinguished Business Leader Award (2002), selection as one of the "Fifty
Great Floridians of the Twentieth Century," philosophy of life.
November 28, 2002
93 ... -Open

FBL 25
Frederick E. Fisher
Endowed Fisher School of Accounting, UF College of Business Administration
CFO, Vice Chairman, U.S. Capital Corporation (1982-1983)
CFO, Vice Chairman, U.S. Home Corporation (1969-1981)
Founder, Chairman Emeritus, Clearwater for Youth Recreation and
Education Center (1966)
Owner and director of several banks and insurance companies
Graduate, University of Florida (1959)
Family history, childhood, went to work at age eight, quit high school, three
years of college, impact of Depression, early interest in accounting, Army mili-
tary service (1954-I955), high school equivalency degree, attended University
of Tampa (1956) on G.I. Bill, attended UF (1956-1959), fiancee, CPA exam,
job offers, teaching accounting to IRS agents at University of Tampa as an
adjunct professor, working for Darby, Darby & Odom in Tampa, starting own
firm in Clearwater (1966), organizing U.S. Home Corporation to build
homes in seventeen states, personal history, business ventures after retirement
(1980), circumstances of the donation for the future UF Fisher School of
Accounting, reenergizing bankrupt companies, involvement in five banks,
property investment in North Carolina, investments (insurance and mortgage
companies, public realty trust, Checkers), role with Clearwater for Youth,
influence of Clearwater for Youth, the Long Center (I990), founded St.
Paul's School in Clearwater with the Episcopal Church (1968), Kiwanis
Center, Golda Meir Community Center, Ruth Eckerd Hall, Stetson College
of Law, Boggy Creek Gang, Inc., creation of the UF Fisher School of
Accounting, chairman of UF's Capital Campaign, interviewing John Lombardi
for UF presidency, Ben Hill Griffin, receiving Doctorate of Humane Letters
and Professor of Accounting Honorary, establishing Phoenix House of Florida
for drug rehabilitation, serving on the Board of Overseers at UF Medical
Center, gubernatorial appointments (chairman of Department of
Transportation Commission and commission that privatized prisons),
Governors Bob Graham and Lawton Chiles, establishing the Tracy Caulkins
Scholarship at UF, Clearwater recognition awards, Joe DiMaggio andJoe
DiMaggio Sunshine Baseball (Florida Sunshine State Games), more recogni-

miamel Prnrtnr Oral Hiktnnr Prngrm Catalng nf Cnllprtinns qnn/
tion awards (Tampa Bay Business Hall of Fame, Tampa Bay Research Institute
Humanitarian Award, National Society of Arts and Letters Community
Award), philosophy of life, GovernorJeb Bush, Senator Bob Graham's pro-
posed Amendment Eleven.
December16, 2002
1677.. -Open

FBL 26 (see also UF 320)
William Emerson
Senior Vice President, National Sales Director, Merrill Lynch
Director, Merrill Lynch Trust Company
Major contributor (William andJane Emerson) to Emerson Hall (Alumni
Graduate, University of Florida
Family history, effect of Depression, childhood, attended St. PeteJunior
College (1939-I941), started at UF in 1941, World War II Naval enlistment and
finishing school, faculty and layout of UF campus, pre-flight training in
Georgia in the Flying Gator Squadron (1942), flight training, encounter with
future wife, World War II service in the Pacific, returning to UF on G.I. Bill,
living in Flavet Village, beginning Merrill Lynch training school (1947),
worked for Merrill Lynch in St. Petersburg (I948-I868), Cuban refugees sell-
ing stock, growth of Merrill Lynch in Florida, personal family history, transfer
to New York City Merrill Lynch office as director of the General Service
Division (security), company security, the Mafia, transfer to Atlanta office as
regional director, interest in racehorses, buying a 1921 railroad car, transfer to
New York City office again as national sales director for the South, visit to
Panama Canal in the late 1970s, activities outside of profession, establishing
the W.A. Emerson/Merrill-Lynch professorship at UF Business School and
also the Business School courtyard and gardens, donation for Emerson Hall
for alumni, raised hundreds of millions of dollars as chairman of the UF
Leadership Gifts Committee and the Campaign Steering Committee, State
University System, philosophy of life, civic responsibilities and organizations,
January 9, 2003
92 .. -Open

FBL 27
JerryW. Davis
Donor, UF College of Medicine's cancer research program (1998)
Chairman and CEO, Computer Management Sciences, Inc.
Owner, Busch NASCAR team
Employee, DuPont Company and Uniroyal, Inc.
Board of Directors, JAXPORT
Graduate, University of Florida College ofJournalism
Childhood, attended UF (1966), employment at DuPont, work ethic, influen-

Flnrida Rliinpe | I Padper
tial professors in UF College ofJournalism, military service, work for Ed Ball
inJacksonville, view of Ed Ball, Davis Brothers (Winn-Dixie), DuPont
Corporation, various employment positions at DuPont, meeting with Edwin
H. Land (Polaroid), worldwide business manager for Uniroyal, set up
Computer Management Sciences, Inc. (CMSI, 1983), expansion of CMSI's
data centers, CMSI going public, diagnosed with cancer, view of Microsoft,
CMSI purchased by Computer Associates International, recurrence of cancer
in 1998 and decision to sell CMSI, qualities of a good CEO, CMSI's accom-
plishments, after CMSI-farming and investing, founding Davis & Weight
Motorsports, bought a Busch NASCAR team for racing, popularity of
NASCAR racing, qualities of a good race car driver, an owner's perspective on
racing, reasons for $5 million donation to UF Cancer Center, serving as
chairman of UF Foundation's finance committee, Steve Spurrier, how to bring
UF into the Top Ten [in the NCAA].
February 21, 2003
627.. -Open

FBL 28 (see also UF 223)
David A. Cofrin
Donor, Samuel P. Harn Museum of Hart, University of Florida
Gainesville surgeon (I955-)
Family history, childhood, beginning Cornell University (1941), NavyV-12
program for premedical students at Great Lakes Naval Training Station (1943),
trained to become medical corpsman, medical school at New York Hospital
(Cornell Medical School, I944-I947), interest in general surgery, internship
and residency, Doctors' Draft Law, joined Air Force (1952-I954) to avoid
draft, served as physician at an Air Force Base in Oklahoma, background of
wife Mary Ann Peebles Harn, personal family history, father's paper mill com-
pany becoming a Fortune 500 business, establishing medical practice in
Gainesville (I955), Alachua General Hospital in the 1950s, raising Paso Fino
(Peruvian) horses, tension between local physicians and new Shands Hospital
(1958), view of general surgeons, revolutionary changes in surgery as one of the
reasons for retirement, segregation at Alachua General Hospital, introduction
of Medicare and Medicaid, other reasons for retiring, family donation for
Samuel P. Harn Museum of Art, Mary Ann Cofrin Pavilion, contribution of
photovoltaic roof to Panamanian research facility, personal history.
March 5, 2003
78 Poges-Open

amilel Prnrtnr Oral Hiitnnr Prgram Cataing nf Cnllprtinns 9nn/
FBL 29
ChristianJane Simons LaRoche
Daughter of George W. Simons, Jr.
Family history, childhood, father (George W. Simons, Jr.): childhood,
involvement with Civitan and other engineering planning associations, quality
of his involvement; Depression's lack of effect on family, father founds
Simons-Sheldrick Company inJacksonville, growing up inJacksonville in the
1930s, staunch Republican family politics, father's role in changing African-
American neighborhoods inJacksonville, segregation and gays and ethnic
groups inJacksonville in the 1930s to 1950s, father's relationship with Florida
governors, personal reminiscences about parents in the 1930s and I940s,
impact of World War II on home life, father dealing with opposition of gov-
ernment and communities in his planning and zoning suggestions, brother's
death, engagement to British flyer, meeting future husbandJim, marriage,
husband's military service, family life, starting Okaloosa County Historical
Museum (Heritage Museum of Northwest Florida), serving on board of
Florida Historical Society, oral history project in Oklaloosa County.
August 15 and 21, 2003
139 Pages-Open

Florida 2000
Election Project

Each of the following interview indexes of the Florida 2000
Election (FEP) Project is comprised of brief phrases giving the
essence of the topics discussed. Topics in the index appear in the
same order as in the interview, thus serving as a general location
guide for the researcher interested only in certain portions of the

Copyright held by the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program. All
interviews, unless otherwise noted, are open and available for
use with proper attribution.

Samilll Prnrtnr Olral Hiftnnr Prgram Catalng of Cnllprtinne 9nni
Charles E. Burton
Chairman, Palm Beach County Canvassing Board during controversial November
2000 presidential election
County CourtJudge, West Palm Beach (2000-)
Background to serving on Palm Beach County Canvassing Board (beginning in
August 2000), Election Day responsibilities, organizing a required manual
recount under statute, hand-recounts and machine-recounts, inaccuracy of
hand-recounts, reasons for choosing the butterfly ballot, accuracy of Vote-O-
Matic (punch-card voting machine), need for education on physical act of vot-
ing, "under-votes" (where name does not punch all the way through) and
"over-votes" (where two or more names are punched), indications of voter-
error (96 percent voted correctly in Palm Beach County), issue of voter disen-
franchisement, equates voter education to studying for exams or taking a test
for a driver's license, a "re-vote" was not the solution, decision behind a hand-
Views of Theresa LePore (Supervisor of Elections) and Carol Roberts
(county commissioner) and their lack of experience with recounts, did not see
any error in vote-tabulation system, controversial request for an opinion from
Florida Division of Elections, conflicting legal opinions about manual recount
which reflected partisanship, background to resorting to Florida Supreme
Court, believes firmly in voter error rather than machine error, felt motion to
go forward with recount was "extremely partisan," more of a Gore-Lieberman
pep rally than a canvassing board's well-reasoned decision.
Felt that both Bob Butterworth nor Katherine Harris were "playing parti-
san politics," issue of statute semantics regarding recounts ("may" versus
"shall"), view that Harris should have recused herself and should not have been
so zealous in trying to certify the election so quickly, Florida Supreme Court's
ruling on recount for three counties-with no consistency or standards in the
ways of recounting, partisanship needs to be removed from canvassing boards,
no legal justification for Florida Supreme Court to ask for recount by
November 26, issue of November 26 date, deciding on standards for recount
in Palm Beach County, "sunshine" standard (if you can see the light through
the ballot).
Issues within the three-member canvassing board (Burton, Roberts,
LePore), paying county employees to help with recount and making sure the
thirty-one teams were politically balanced, antagonistic Republican and
Democrat observers who each wanted the recount to slow down or speed up-
respectively, media interference in recount room, media and visiting politi-
cians giving false views of recount room, military and absentee ballots, view of
U.S. Supreme Court's interference, view of Harris not giving an extension
after Palm Beach County recount vote was submitted two hours late, issue of
taking Thanksgiving off, feels entire state should have been recounted instead
of a few selected counties, being subpoenaed by Harris's lawyer and testifying
before the Florida Supreme Court.

Flnrida 9nnn Flprtinn Prnjert
Reaction to Florida Supreme Court decision to do a manual recount of
all the under-votes, reaction to U.S. Supreme Court ruling to stop the
recount (especially Justice Scalia's comments), five months after election and
Florida still has no standards to count votes, recounts done by various Florida
newspapers were all different, believes that no one will ever know who officially
won Florida, wording of Florida election laws was "horrible," comments on
recommendations by the elections task force for voting reform, thinks former
felons should vote, lessons learned from 2000 election, again emphasizes edu-
cation on how to vote, how election changed Palm Beach County, how election
changed personal life and LePore's life, Bush got a "fair shake" in Palm Beach
County, feels that Florida legislature will not make changes in election laws
because "it benefits them" not to do so.
April, 2001
32 Pages-Open

"Florida Election 2000: Insiders at the Intersection of Law, Politics and the
Media" (8 a.m.)
Panel held at the University of Florida Levin College of Law Auditorium
Panel discussion: "Why Florida? What Brought Us Here?"
Participants: Roger Cossack, David Boies, Dexter Douglass, Joseph Klock,
David Cardwell, David Savage, Tom Fiedler, Mike Vasilinda, Steve Zack
February 26, 2001
57 Pges

"Florida Election 2000: Insiders at the Intersection of Law, Politics and the
Media" (ii a.m.)
Panel held at the University of Florida Levin College of Law Auditorium
Panel discussion: "History and Future of the Process of Elections and Voting"
Participants: Deborah Kearney, Thom Rumberger, Rod Smith, Mark
Tushnet, Pam lorio
February 26, 2001
23 Pages

"Florida Election 2000: Insiders at the Intersection of Law, Politics and the
Media" (1:30 p.m.)
Panel held at the University of Florida Levin College of Law Auditorium
Panel discussion: "Fairness in Voting"
Participants: Jacqueline Berrien, Kendrick Meek, Tony Hill, Gail Baker,
Joseph Little, Terri Fine, Alan Agresti, Steve Zack
February 26, 2001

Samilll Prnrtnr Oral Hittnnr Program atalng nf Cnllprtinns 9nn/
"Florida Election 2000: Insiders at the Intersection of Law, Politics and the
Media" (3 p.m.)
Panel held at the University of Florida Levin College of Law Auditorium
Panel discussion: "What Have We Learned and Where Do We Go from Here?"
Participants: ToniJennings, Gerald Kogan
February 26, 2001
24 Pages

Candidate in November 2000 election for State Representative from Alachua and
Marion counties
Perspective on Election Day, impossible for Harris not to be biased since she
was chair of Bush campaign in Florida, she should have recused herself before
election, feels that GovernorJeb Bush should have recused himself even fur-
ther back in months to show objectivity, every decision Harris made seemed to
favor Bush, political makeup of Florida Supreme Court controversy, issue of
state legislators wanting to change court makeup if they do not like the court's
decisions, felt it was "appropriate" for the U.S. Supreme Court "to make the
call" because the "decision was too big in the implication," would have pre-
ferred a 9-0 decision rather than a 5-4 decision.
Feels there should have been more standards and clarity in the law,
Harris-as chief elections officer-should have set the recount standards, new
standards will be different because of optical-scan and electronic issues, prefers
optical-scan over touch-screen because of touch-screens' inherent problems,
legislature has responsibility rather than courts or election supervisors to pro-
vide the "clearest direction" in setting voting standards, feels Gore lost only
partly due to the butterfly ballot, should have been a statewide recount rather
than just four counties, feels Bush won but the intent of most voters was for
Gore, reasons for large turnout of minority voters, "Arrive with Five" program
(bring five other voters to the polls), Palm Beach butterfly ballot was not the
one published in the local paper, issue of minorities having to vote on older
voting machines.
JesseJackson's presence in Gainesville day before election, "hard-pressed
to set the standard for a re-vote" as Jackson proposed, visiting South Florida
after election to find frustrated and upset voters (minorities and senior citi-
zens), march in Palm Beach, significance of Election Reform Act of 2001,
restoration of former felons' voting rights, erroneous felon list, Motor Voter
Act-advantages and disadvantages, advantages of provisional ballots, voter
responsibility and education, march in Tallahassee (March 7, 2000) to mobi-
lize voters and protest GovernorJeb Bush's "One Florida," issue of Florida
legislature's action to appoint a slate of Electoral College electors during elec-
tion play-out, purpose ofJoint Committee on Electoral Process (created by
President of the Florida Senate and speaker of the Florida House).
U.S. Civil Rights Commission investigation :.- 1 .. discrimination

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against minorities, controversial felon list and Motor Voter registration list,
need to better educate minorities on voting procedures and not use defective
or older voting equipment in minority precincts, using the term "disenfran-
chisement" is correct when many ballots were not counted, feels the lack of
leadership led to no one being held responsible for any disputable decisions,
unfavorable opinion of Harris, class-action suit filed by NAACP, maintain
integrity of voting process-use standards, believes some supervisors of elec-
tions should have been charged with infractions.
No uniformity regarding counting military ballots, issue of paying for
Harris's private lawyers, impact of media calling the election before Florida
Panhandle counties closed, editorial coverage, Civil Rights Division of U.S.
Department ofJustice should have stepped in, Florida looking "bad," voting
fraud consisted of improper machines, long-term impact of this election on
Florida-"people will take their right of suffrage more seriously" and some may
never vote again, will always wonder what if Gore had won and how he would
have dealt with September II, 2001.
October 5 and November 5, 2001
62 .. -Open

David Cardwell
Former Director of Florida Division of Elections (1978)
CNN analyst on controversial November 2000 presidential election
Background to becoming Director of Division of Elections (1978) and subse-
quent state government positions involving elections and redistricting, attorney
with Holland & Knight law firm and specializing in election law issues, no
other election was preparation for election of 2000 (tension and closeness),
how November 7 transpired, phone call from Holland & Knight colleague to
get to Tallahassee fast, coming to Tallahassee as an attorney from Holland &
Knight (not as an individual), asked to assemble an election-law team and
identify issues and statutes, Holland & Knight's decision to disband team due
to too many conflicts.
Becoming CNN's contact and reporter three days after election
(November Io), description of TV stations' tents and cramped quarters in
Tallahassee's Capitol courtyard, everyone's feeling that this was a short-term-
not a long-term-situation (which actually lasted thirty-six days), a typical day
in the news truck or tent, appearing on CNN's many talk shows as an elections
analyst, remembering December 4 when U.S. Supreme Court asked Florida
Supreme Court to clarify its reasoning in extending the hand recounts, trying
to avoid confusion between the various county election cases, TV viewers were
just as informed as analysts because of Internet access to documents, being in
the middle of a political storm and dealing with famous politicians.
Point menJames Baker (for Bush) and Warren Christopher (for Gore),
felt Republicans were better organized and made Democrats constantly react,

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Democrats "were always looking for ways to find some more ballots," Florida's
Sunshine laws' impact on the process, controversy over overseas absentee bal-
lots, constitutionality of a re-vote, notes flaws in manual recounts but feels it is
the best way, thinks the butterfly ballot controversy was due to voters not fol-
lowing instructions, Bush attorney filing lawsuit with U.S. District Court based
on Fourteenth Amendment (violation of "equal protection" of the law), Bush
team believed Florida Supreme Court is a Democratic court therefore get con-
troversy out of Florida and into federal courts, Gore "mantra" of just keep
counting the votes.
Florida's decentralized elections system with only minor limitations (can-
vassing boards set the standards), lack of standards gave Bush team ammuni-
tion, controversy of Division of Elections' responsibility early on, issue of
semantics in statutes, canvassing boards dealing with opposite directives from
higher up, agreeing with the U.S. District Court decision of November 13
(refusal to accept Bush's petition to stop manual recounts), authored Elections
and Ethics: The Law in Florida (issue of protesting an election and then contesting
the election), description of process of protesting a vote, voter error empha-
sized by Republicans versus tabulation error, feels that Harris did not show any
flexibility but she did show consistency.
Answers questions about why Gore did not ask for order to block certifi-
cation, felon list, describes 2000 election as the "perfect storm" where every-
thing that could go wrong went wrong (felon voting, butterfly ballot, extremely
long ballot, malfunctioning equipment, close vote), overseas ballots controver-
sy, Republican pressure on Panhandle counties to count overseas ballots, Jesse
Jackson rallies, Motor Voter problems, Judge Terry Lewis's (Leon County
District Court judge) decision on the mandatory recount, Eleventh Circuit
Court of Appeals decision, issue of federal courts' involvement in a state issue,
believing that GovernorJeb Bush would not certify a slate of electors other
than the ones for his brother (George W. Bush), shocked that U.S. Supreme
Court became involved, controversy over arbitrary date of November 26 for a
decision, Florida Supreme Court dueling with Florida legislature (perceived
Democratic Florida Supreme Court versus Republican Florida legislature),
perception of Florida Supreme Court trying to save Gore.
No need for Harris to recuse herself, even though GovernorJeb Bush
recused himself-he most likely used his office to some extent-to help his
brother win, Gore's legal and political/public relations strategy (feels politi-
cal/public relations strategy "triumphed over legal strategy"), Miami-Dade
County stopping recount, Florida almost reached a constitutional crisis
("statutory construction"), issue of extending recount to November 26, alleged
role of the Florida Secretary of State as chief elections official and what Harris
did in that role, a canvassing board's use of discretion, Bush's petition to U.S.
Supreme Court on November 22, believes it was apparent that the U.S.
Supreme Court was going to be the "ultimate arbitrator," Nassau County votes,
Joint Legislative Oversight Committee on Electoral Certification.
Tom Feeney versus John McKay on appointing electors, opinion of Judge

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Sanders Sauls and his role and decisions, relationship between Florida
Supreme Court andJudge Sauls, arguments before U.S. Supreme Court,
comparing the two "Supremes" (Florida Supreme Court versus U.S. Supreme
Court), making predictions for CNN, Florida Supreme Court "interpreting"
law versus "making" law, media emphasizing judges and canvassing board
members' political affiliations, feeling of total confusion on part of canvassing
boards about recount methodology, being 1h ,i i -- -.1" at U.S. Supreme
Court's decision to stop manual recounts (December 9), "irreparable" harm
phrase, question about whether or not the U.S. Supreme Court selected the
President ("election had been decided, the U.S. Supreme Court just made it
stick"), "safe harbor" issue (phrase from Presidential Election Act of 1887 con-
cerning each state's slate of electors).
5-4 U.S. Supreme Court decision (Bush v. Gore), issue of Fourteenth
Amendment, the U.S. Supreme Court justices who dissented, meaning of
"constitutional crisis," Alan Dershowitz's view of U.S. Supreme Court ruling,
more personal opinions about U.S. Supreme Court decision, opinions of
lawyers hired for each side, Ralph Nader's impact on election, no evidence of
voting fraud, analysis of each political campaign, media's perception of story,
Election Reform Act of 2001, conclusions of U.S. Civil Rights Commission
and issue of disenfranchisementt," view of provisional ballots, education of
voters can be intimidating, how experience changed life, wants to see election
law recognized as not being just political, changing face of voting.
October 16, 2001
128 Pages-Open

W. Dexter Douglass
Chief Florida counsel for Al Gore in connection with election lawsuits in contro-
versial November 2000 presidential election
Accepting position as chief Florida counsel for Al Gore knowing about all
the legal entanglements-to some extent, first test case once he was involved
as counsel: recount of votes filed under Statute 102.168, Gore tactics
(protest versus contest), Nader deprived Gore of winning, political view
versus legal view that Bush stayed in the lead, negative opinion of Judge
Charles Burton, everyone getting "hung up" on counting the under-votes,
wanted to use Texas standard (counting dimples) "which would have put
Gore in the lead," Gore team did not follow Florida election lawyers' rec-
ommendations, Gore lost votes on the under-votes (especially in Duval
Harris was not neutral, favorable view of Barry Richard (Bush attor-
ney) and unfavorable view of Joe Klock (Harris's attorney), Gore team
should have pushed for statewide recount, very unfavorable view of James
Baker (head of Bush team) especially regarding attitude toward Florida
Supreme Court decisions, "politicians have no interest in fairness in the
courts," statewide recount versus specific counties where Gore was doing

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well, butterfly ballot confusion should have been objected to prior to elec-
tion-not afterwards, lack of clarity in election laws made courts' rulings
important, Harris should have intervened about procedures for recounts.
Barry Richard's strategy before Florida Supreme Court of violating
"equal protection" clause of Fourteenth Amendment, realized that U.S.
Supreme Court would eventually intervene, Eleventh Circuit Court of
"appeals" involvement (stating this was a state issue), feels U.S. Supreme
Court "pounded themselves" (rather than receiving pounding from critics),
Harris acted in a biased manner, Harris had the discretion to extend the
recount time according to statute, but chose not to, semantics "may" and
"shall" in statute, decision not to block the certification, poor opinion of
high-profile personalities on Republican side, controversy over military
ballots, election could have been decided in "so many different ways."
Controversy of Harris and Mac Stipanovich e-mail messages to Bush
headquarters, assessing Governor Jeb Bush's activities during this time,
Judge Terry Lewis's decision allowing certification of the election, opinion
of David Boies (Gore attorney), assessment of first Florida Supreme Court
decision (7-0 decision on hand-recounts), Boies's involvement with
Florida Supreme Court deciding on November 26 extension date,
Seminole and Martin counties' recount problems, December 12 "safe har-
bor" date, little direct contact with Gore (most of Gore's decisions went
through other advisors), poor opinion of Tom Feeney (speaker of the
Florida House), challenging the certification of November 26 known as the
"contest" and drawing Judge Sauls to preside, television's impact in the
courtroom, askingJudge Sauls to rule quickly.
Short preparation time to write briefs that no one would ever read,
Judge Sauls's ruling against every Gore issue, believes U.S. Supreme Court
wanted Bush to win, opinions of U.S. Supreme Court justices, make-up of
Florida Supreme Court, reasons for not asking Florida Supreme Court to
rule on counting under-votes, why Florida Supreme Court did not set a
standard, Republican legislature versus Democratic Florida Supreme
Court, reasons for replacing Larry Tribe with David Boies to argue before
U.S. Supreme Court, 5-4 U.S. Supreme Court decision will "stand there
by itself like Dred Scott" (decision), issue of Florida Supreme Court legis-
lating rather than interpreting the election laws, view of U.S. Supreme
Court decision and respective justices, Joe Klock's fee of one million dol-
Bob Butterworth's (Attorney General of Florida) and Senator Bob
Graham's lack of involvement, U.S. Civil Rights Commission report, felon
list controversy, Election Reform Act of 2001, not in favor of provisional
ballots, believes optical scan machines are the most effective, personally glad
that he was part of this experience and changes it made in his life, giving
advice to Gore the night before Gore said he was pulling out, feels that
Gore had too many advisors and Democrats were always worried about how
the litigation looked, anecdotes about Jeb Bush (prior to being governor),

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not offended by Florida jokes about election, does not see any change in
future of Electoral College, Tallahassee scene during those thirty-six days,
view of other lawyers and view of the media, "I did not make any money,
but I had a good time."
October 30 and 31, 2001
66 Pages-Open

Mike Vasilinda
Prime state correspondent for NBC affiliates in Florida and also for Florida's News
Channel during controversial November 2000 presidential election
Recalling scene in Tallahassee early in the morning on November 8 on eigh-
teenth floor of Capitol (Division of Elections office), that chaotic hour set
tone for next thirty-six days, foreign network coverage, had to make comments
on TV without knowing full story and dramatic hour-by-hour changes in situ-
ation, typical early morning network meetings to make decisions, connections
to both legal teams, monitoring every other network's coverage to stay on top
of situation, pressure of live feeds, "thrill of the election" occurred on day two
in personally explaining what a chad was to James Baker, assessment of media
coverage, feels media got tired too quickly of events and therefore forced some
issues to be resolved sooner than expected, lawyers' cooperation in being inter-
viewed-especially if the situation was going their way.
View of Harris and her "bunker mentality," Democratic lawyers working
for Bush side (Barry Richard andJoe Klock), Klock's cost of services, does not
believe media sensationalized events, assessment of Harris, assessment of
GovernorJeb Bush, Republicans' public relations campaign versus Democrats'
public relations campaign, view of Warren Christopher, organization of
Republican Party versus Democrat Party, Republicans trying to create image of
chaos so U.S. Supreme Court would intervene, impression ofJesse Jackson's
appearance around Tallahassee, butterfly ballot was never an issue.
Gore choosing to use the protest strategy rather than the contest strategy,
"safe harbor" day of December 12, significance of Fourteenth Amendment
("equal protection" clause), Eleventh Circuit Court ofAppeals' decision,
problems in recounting the votes in each of the sixty-seven counties, issue of
Martin and Seminole counties, view that Democrats were always on the defen-
sive and Republicans on the offensive, controversy of extension date of
November 26, Republican strategy of the time element, more on Harris's par-
tisanship, Florida House decision led by Tom Feeney about seating Bush elec-
tors "no matter what," surprised that U.S. Supreme Court accepted Bush's
appeal, issue of Florida legislature "trumping" Florida Supreme Court.
Florida Supreme Court's catch-22 dilemma (appearing to legislate in set-
ting recount standards or violating Fourteenth Amendment), Florida Supreme
Court's 4-3 decision (to continue the recount) would negate view that it was a
Democratic court, view of Florida ChiefJustice Charles Wells versus the
Florida legislature, view of U.S. Supreme Court's final decision (Bush v. Gore)

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and the 5-4 versus a 7-2 decision, use of the phrase "constitutional crisis,"
feels that after September II, 2001, there was no longer a dispute about who
was president, impact of TV in courtroom, believes Gore won Florida, assess-
ment of each side's top lawyers, long-term and short-term impact of this elec-
tion on Florida, eliminating the second primary, Election Reform Act of
2001, provisional ballots, Civil Rights Commission report, impact of election
on personal life.
October 31, 2001
34 Pages-Open

Thom Rumberger
Member of Florida governor's bipartisan 2001 Select Task Force on Elections
Reasons for being chosen to serve on Select Task Force on Elections, names of
some of the experts to testify, recommendation to lease rather than buy new
voting machines, advised that optical scan machines were the best and should
be used uniformly across the state, favorable opinion of provisional ballot,
felon vote, unfavorable view of Civil Rights Commission report, issue of
supervisors of elections being nonpartisan, would like to "adjust the [voting]
hours" to make the country more uniform in "calling" the election victors,
controversy over holding a second primary, need to educate voters, feels
Florida legislature should define a standard of voter intent, nature of involve-
ment with Bush campaign, view of Gore protesting the election in Democratic
counties, agreed that Gore should have given up the protest phase and gone
right into the contest phase.
Republicans were much better organized, assessment of lead lawyers, views
of secondary players, good Republican tactic was just "repeating the message,"
Democrats were outflanked by overseas ballots issue, view of Harris, view of
GovernorJeb Bush, "margin of error exceeded the margin of victory,"
November 26 date, attitude of Florida Supreme Court, December 12 ("safe
harbor" deadline) date, controversy over Seminole and Martin counties'
request for absentee ballot forms, Joe Klock's legal fees, Florida House vote on
seating Bush electors, Florida Supreme Court's 4-3 decision to allow recount
to continue, opinion about U.S. Supreme Court getting involved, viewing
U.S. Supreme Court decision in legal terms and how its reputation suffered,
September II, 2001, saved Bush's legitimacy, long-term impact of 2000 elec-
October 31, 2001
257.. -Open

FEP ii
Rod Smith
Elected to state Senate seat in November 2000 election
Served onJoint Committee on the Electoral Process
Recalls activities on Election Day, appointment (by GovernorJeb Bush) to

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Joint Committee on the Electoral Process almost immediately after election,
familiarity with cameras due to Danny Rolling murder case, reasons for
appointment, researching constitutional history, believed at the outset that
U.S. Supreme Court would become involved, Republicans' public relations
campaign was better managed than Democrats' public relations campaign,
committee hearings, negative opinions of Tom Feeney and Harris, impact of
GovernorJeb Bush, "ideologues" on committee, "safe harbor" date of
December 12, view of Feeney's leadership role, felt that Democrats "were
unable to come up with something that grabbed the public," participants
grandstanding in front of CNN cameras.
Gore's appreciation phone call, did not like Democrat strategy of "make
every vote count" and at same time "trying to disqualify votes," Harris's con-
stant contact with GovernorJeb Bush and Governor George Bush, view of Mac
Stipanovich's impact on Harris, Harris and Butterworth serving on committees
to elect their respective candidates, Harris's "worst moment"-not extending
the deadline, "no moral high ground"-Democrats "would have done anything
to win, too."
Accomplishments of Election Reform Bill of 2001, in favor of provision-
al ballots, issue of felon list, Motor-Voter bill, question of standardization of
recounts, favorable view of Dexter Douglass, conflicting election law provi-
sions, Judge Middlebrooks's decision (U.S. District Court decision not to halt
recount), view of U.S. Supreme Court 5-4 decision, issue of Fourteenth
Amendment "equal protection" clause, Florida Supreme Court decisions,
Seminole and Martin counties issue, controversy over overseas ballots, views of
U.S. Supreme Court justices, issue of discrimination against black voters,
Justice Clarence Thomas in 5-4 vote.
November 14, 2001
3' F... -Open

FEP 12
Joseph P. Klock
Attorney for Secretary of State Katherine Harris in controversial November 2000
presidential election
Reasons for being chosen to represent Katherine Harris rather than using in-
house attorneys, meeting with Harris and organizing legal team, experience
with complicated and stressful legal process, working with Harris, dealing with
Harris's personal lawyer Mac Stipanovich, Harris's instructions to staff not to
have any contact with presidential candidate Bush's office, Bush lawyers, filing
petition at 3 a.m. to Florida Supreme Court clerk to consolidate all the cases
in one case and articulate the standards and freeze any counting, Harris was
"only person out there that I saw who was operating by what she thought was
right," felt that Gore lawyers concentrated too much on protest phase rather
than contest phase, Gore lawyers focused too much on number of votes that
appeared in media and on the Florida Supreme Court, role of media in calling
the winners.

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Job was to uphold everything Harris did, feels Harris will eventually be
vindicated, believes no conflict existed between Harris's position as co-chair-
man of George Bush campaign and her position as Secretary of State who
oversaw the election process, setting up specific legal strategy, view of the but-
terfly ballot controversy, "no objective standard to govern the intent of the vot-
ers," problem with punch-card ballot recounts, upset with leaks from Florida
Supreme Court, views of each Florida Supreme Court justice and the first 7-0
ruling, Judge Middlebrooks's ruling (U.S. District Court), advice to Harris
had to be "bullet-proof' especially regarding directives to canvassing boards on
their recounts (receiving recount either by Sunday at 5 p.m. or Monday by 9
Military and overseas absentee ballots issue, more on the first Florida
Supreme Court 7-0 decision, Seminole and Martin counties issue, Florida
Supreme Court overrulingJudge Lewis's decision permitting Harris to certify
election (November 17), protest versus contest issue, controversies became very
personal, critical issues argued before U.S. Supreme Court, Fourteenth
Amendment, "equal protection" clause, Justice Antonin Scalia, feels that
judges were placed in impossible positions, Judge Sanders Sauls, believes that
no one paid any attention to what the Secretary of State [Harris] was doing
except the Supreme Court of the United States," how the Eleventh Circuit
Court of Appeals hurt Bush.
Favorable view of all Leon County trial judges-especially Judges Sanders
Sauls and Nikki Clark, strategy was to persist in the vote counting, view of Gore
and Boies, Harris's resolve under "tremendous pressure," discussed strategy
with Bush team and "cooperated several times with the Democrats on different
things-when they asked for it," controversy of Florida legislature seating Bush
electors, "bunker mentality" of Florida Supreme Court, oral arguments before
Florida Supreme Court and its final decisions, arguing before the U.S.
Supreme Court with numerous other cases simultaneously pending in Florida,
Justice Scalia's questions to Boies, believes that Florida Supreme Court Chief
Justice Charles Wells did not want the Florida Supreme Court to look bad.
Justices in the U.S. Supreme Court realize their power to change history,
federal "safe harbor" date of December 12, did not see a constitutional crisis
unless confusion and court cases had gone on longer than they did, became
famous for mixing up the U.S. Supreme Court justices' names due to tired-
ness, assessing performance of Ted Olsen and David Boies before U.S.
Supreme Court, view ofJustices Stevens and Breyer's dissent, U.S. Supreme
Court's final decision, how those thirty-six days changed his life, feels that
Bush won the election and was the "right guy who won," believes Harris is the
real hero in all this."
November 28, 2001
53 Pages-Open

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FEP 13
Gerald Kogan
Made appearances on network TV to discuss controversial November 2000 presi-
dential election
ChiefJustice of Florida Supreme Court (I996-I998)
Justice of Florida Supreme Court (1987-1998)
Appeared on network TV more than seventy times during presidential election
controversy of November 2000, believes too much misinformation presented
on talk shows, most impartial presentation was News Hour on PBS because no
partisan positions were taken, appearing on Hardball show in whichJerry Falwell
made derogatory remark about Florida Supreme Court, confrontation with
Senator Orrin Hatch on same program over Florida Supreme Court decision,
how justices are selected and answering those who critique justices, best judges
are those "who can make a decision :-. 1. 1 .- of the political consequences to
themselves," philosophy of the Florida Supreme Court is to go with the will of
the voters, doing live commentary on oral arguments before Florida Supreme
Impact of televised court arguments on jurisprudence, making use of the
Internet, opinion of press (Florida and national) in covering the election,
emphatic about the "entire problem" being with the "confusing" butterfly bal-
lot-but it was not "illegal," felt that Florida legislature was more interested in
politics (getting Bush elected) than "what the law should be," agrees withJudge
Middlebrooks's decision (U.S. District Court) that it is a state matter-not a
federal matter, advantages of the contest phase, 1 ... with Harris's decision
not to accept late votes in the recount, Harris was partisan, military and over-
seas ballots issue, Judge Terry Lewis's ruling about Harris being able to exercise
Harris disenfranchised "voters through no fault of the voter," process by
which Florida Supreme Court gets cases, Lewis II decision permitting Harris to
certify election results, Seminole and Martin counties issue, does not feel that
Florida Supreme Court was "making" a law when it set the November 26 date,
surprised that U.S. Supreme Court stepped in but realized that that court
wanted to see Bush elected President, feels that Florida Supreme Court did not
change election laws-"merely applying them so as not to disenfranchise vot-
ers," assessing oral arguments before U.S. Supreme Court, not surprised that
Florida Supreme Court overruled Judge Sauls's decision and not surprised by
Florida Supreme Court ChiefJustice Charles Wells's "stinging" dissent, rea-
sons why Florida Supreme Court ruled the way it did.
Repeats that U.S. Supreme Court wanted to get involved to get Bush
elected, U.S. Supreme Court justices discussing reasons for their verdict-
"really for the first time," feels Electoral College is an "outmoded system," not
a constitutional crisis because "nobody indicated that they would not follow the
word of either the courts or the legislature," Tom Feeney versus Florida
Supreme Court ("Feeney does not like the court...he does not recognize the
independence of the judiciary"), issue of voter's intent, felons should have

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their voting rights restored, enjoyed celebrity status by commenting on events
in a nonpartisan way, reasons why people do not vote, campaign-finance
reform will not occur.
November 27, 2001
34 Pages-Open

Thomas Fiedler
Executive Editor in The Miami Herald newsroom
Editorial Pages Editor, The Miami Herald, at time of controversial November 2000
presidential election
Determining Miami Herald's editorial policies during 2000 campaign, did not
want newspaper to position itself too early in campaign, paper ultimately went
for Gore (based on vote or consensus of the expanded editorial board), paper
supported U.S. Supreme Court stepping in, paper endorsed Gore but editori-
al board felt he should concede, paper wanted to "trust the process," editorial
writing process, wrote majority of editorials, setting up criteria as to best can-
didate (results led to choosing Gore), "Gore has evinced a troubling inauthen-
ticity" phrase in editorial, paper prepared to respond to any eventuality on
Election Day with three different editorials, published Bush congratulations
editorial too soon.
A Gore-Graham ticket would have made the difference, importance of
Gore-Lieberman ticket in Florida, editorial endorsement of a candidate is not
that i..... .... impact of calling the election for Gore before polls closed in
Florida Panhandle, media should not call winners but should not be restricted
to do so by law, feels that butterfly ballot cost Gore the election-"an example
of how lousy graphics can affect world events," decries the fact that the election
issues got into the federal courts, in favor ofJudge Middlebrooks's decision
(U.S. District Court) that this was a state issue, feels Gore should have asked
for recount in all counties, I f.. ... ..' -. .,.- of Palm Beach County, prob-
lems with constantly changing events.
Miami-Dade County Canvassing Board suspending its recount, feels
Bush would have won Miami-Dade, overseas and military absentee ballots-
especially in Florida Panhandle counties, Gore looked at this as a "political
fight"-not a 1!-. ,i fl:ht," Gore ": *..* ...... 1 post-November 7 process
and Bush "went underground," public relations battle, Bush campaign and
legal team were more committed, impact of prominent Republicans visiting
Florida, Harris was not bipartisan, view of GovernorJeb Bush throughout this
process, Florida Supreme Court decisions, troubled by Florida Supreme
Court "establishing procedures that amounted to new law," election supervi-
sors in Seminole and Martin counties making a "terrible judgment."
View that Tom Feeney's move to seat Bush electors was "shameless," sur-
prised that U.S. Supreme Court got involved, feels that U.S. Supreme Court
consisted of people who just wanted to "make a difference," does not think
Florida Supreme Court was being political and partisan, Herald could not get

Flnrida 9nnn Flprtinn Prnojrt 6
"comfortable" with Gore pushing for new standards, believes U.S. Supreme
Court has been "damaged," "you had a conservative majority [on U.S.
Supreme Court] making a decision that benefitted the conservative candidate,"
reaction to Herald's study of election returns.
November 29, 2001
48 Pages-Open

FEP 15
Stephen N. Zack
Attorney for Al Gore in connection with election lawsuits in controversial
November 2000 presidential election
Getting involved in the post-November 7 election legal entanglements, pre-
sented a re-hearing afterJudge Middlebrooks's decision, used Florida
Supreme Court's motto: "soon enough, if correct," issue of Miami-Dade
County's canvassing board members, security issues in Miami and "rent-a-
mobs," chaos that prevailed after manual recount is shut down on November
22, believes Florida Supreme Court should have acted earlier, Gore's legal
team assembling in Tallahassee to argue before Florida Supreme Court,
believes Judge Sauls should have recused himself, feels that Miami-Dade
Canvassing Board had time to do recount-but feels they just did not want to
do it, strategy in going to trial withJudge Sauls (beginning of contest phase),
thinks "strategy was perfect until the Supreme Court of the United States
stepped in."
Kimball Brace andJohn Ahmann as witnesses (voting machine experts),
did not think it was necessary to send Miami-Dade votes to Tallahassee to be
recounted, impact of Sunshine Law and cameras in the courtroom during his
cross-examinations, impact of Sauls trial on Florida Supreme Court's 4-3
vote, Will Rogers's quote summarizes the thirty-six days: "where you stand
depends on where you sit," believes Florida Supreme Court decision was
"absolutely legally correct" and U.S. Supreme Court decision was "legally
incorrect," butterfly ballot, agrees withJudge Middlebrooks's opinion assessing
Harris's performance, issue of disenfranchising voters, controversy of Florida
Supreme Court setting November 26 date.
Florida Supreme Court's 4-3 vote ordering manual recount, U.S.
Supreme Court's 5-4 decision, feels history will not judge U.S. Supreme
Court justices favorably based on this decision, believes that U.S. Supreme
Court should have risen above politics, there was a constitutional crisis but
"that is not justification for making new law or ignoring old law," future elec-
tions' impact on Florida ("battleground will always be Florida"), important
civics lesson, Election Reform Act of 2001, lawyers on both sides "acted pro-
November30, 2001
287.. -Open

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FEP 17
Sue Gunzberger
Member, Broward County Canvassing Board (includes Fort Lauderdale), during
controversial November 2000 presidential election
Recalls November 7, 2000, as "longest day of my life," followed procedure
for automatic recount (fed all ballots through machine again-did not tally
machine totals), dispels myth of missing county ballots, certain precincts
were not adequately staffed, issue of Supervisor of Elections Jane Carroll
taking time off after election, discrepancy between original vote count and
automatic recount tabulation, "disturbed" about touch-screen voting,
Gore's choice of three precincts to establish hand-count, obvious machine
failure in one precinct, large number of over-votes and under-votes, pro-
cedure for recount and following law of voter intent, setting standards for
recount, dispels myth about Broward County succumbing to political pres-
sure in recount.
Observers from both parties, Republicans' delaying tactics did not
work, both parties had special and knowledgeable teams about military and
overseas ballots, negative opinion of prominent Republican observers, feel-
ing of "being in a fishbowl" constantly, getting death threats on the
Internet and receiving police protection, not upset with personal attacks
but upset with media getting family involved, appointment of Judge Robert
Rosenberg to replace Supervisor of Elections Jane Carroll, view of Carroll
and Rosenberg, Attorney General Bob Butterworth versus Director of
Florida Division of Elections Clay Roberts, decision to work on
Thanksgiving, wanting to make sure Katherine Harris had Broward
County's votes by Sunday at 5:00 p.m. due to not trusting Harris to take
their votes on Monday morning, references to Palm Beach County taking
Thanksgiving off.
Living under public scrutiny, never experienced intimidation while
counting due to security and location, view of media, issue of voter error in
predominately black precincts and felon lists, frustrated with overseas bal-
lots not being postmarked on time and military personnel not following
instructions on voting, "this was the worst election that I have ever seen,"
Gore should have asked to count in every county, sees Harris as being parti-
san, view of Governor Jeb Bush, effect of Florida Supreme Court's 7-0
decision to let Palm Beach and Broward counties continue hand-count by
November 26, view of Republican versus Democrat strategy, "Republicans
did all sorts of illegal maneuvers and they got away with it," "sheer disgust"
with Tom Feeney and Florida House of Representatives voting 79-41 to seat
Bush electors.
View of Judge Sanders Sauls's decision to have votes moved to
Tallahassee, "knew it was over" when U.S. Supreme Court stopped the
count (first vote), Florida Supreme Court's 4-3 decision to count just
under-votes, "disturbed" view of U.S. Supreme Court's 5-4 decision-
court should not have intervened at all, view of Florida Election Reform

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Act of 2001 (provisional ballots and eliminating second primaries), 2000
election emphasized that every vote counts and also it may have "turned
them [voters] off from voting," personal and historical impact of election.
December19, 2001
27.. -Open

FEP 18
Benedict ("Ben") Kuehne
Miami attorney for Al Gore during controversial November 2000 presidential elec-
tion (specialty is Florida election law)
Legal background on reasons for involvement in 2000 election, involved in
election law in Miami mayoral election in 1996, personal experience on
Election Day (as co-chair of Gore campaign for Miami-Dade County), head-
ing up "strike-force" with team of lawyers on Election Day, hearing about
statewide problems and obtaining affidavits (even outside of Miami-Dade
County) from those who were citing problems, disappointment in Mayor Alex
Penelas not being very supportive of Gore, Fontainebleau Hotel on election
night, background to getting involved in post-election process, activities on day
two (November 8) and day three (November 9), validating feeling that "Florida
really does control the outcome of this election."
Reasons why Gore chose Warren Christopher and Bill Daley for guidance
and as a legal team, Ron Klain as intermediary between Gore and lawyers (head
of legal operation for Gore in election), Gore "in the loop" on almost every
decision, request for automatic one percent recount just to go on record, re-
tabulation of votes during automatic recount versus actually recounting votes,
seeing the State Department of Elections as a "partisan branch of government"
early in the process, seeing how Bush team members "I did everything they
could to have no changes made," setting up office and grasping situation in
Tallahassee with Kendall Coffey, "incredible" first meeting and briefing with
Christopher and Daley and Klain.
Personal view was "to make a protest in every single county"-not just four
counties (Miami-Dade, Broward, Volusia, and Palm Beach), wanted to make it
a "Florida election result-not a "county election result," explains how recount
could have been done ("count all the votes" message) in all sixty-seven coun-
ties, feels that Harris had a "completely distorted view of the election law,"
background to counting only four counties (and not Duval County), knew on
day three (November 9) that election process "was going to end up in court,"
but did not know which court, felt comfortable with Florida Supreme Court
"to validate the rights of every voter to have their vote counted," Republicans
throwing in continual roadblocks ("stalling tactics").
Discrepancy between "count all the votes" message and at same time
counting only four counties in protest phase, feels that Republicans' public
relations' message was more "crafted" and "sharper" than Democrats, negative
view ofJim Baker and his comments about Florida's legal system, feels that
Gore's lawyers were more organized than Bush's lawyers (Gore's small-firm

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lawyers versus Bush's big firms and big-firm resources lawyers), heading Gore's
legal team in Palm Beach County, alarmed by appearance of Kerey Carpenter
(representing Secretary of State Harris), "a real battle" with Carpenter.
Convinced that GovernorJeb Bush was "directing or authorizing Harris
to do what she did," view ofJudge Charles Burton, canvassing board getting
"scandalous" advice from Carpenter, Carpenter's influence on Burton, ten-
sion between canvassing board members, controversy over Burton's letter to
Department of Elections being sent hours before his letter to Attorney
General's office (asking for advice on proceeding with recount), issue of but-
terfly ballot, conflicting opinions about recount settled by Florida Supreme
Court, favorable view ofJudge Jorge LaBarga, getting on written record with
Harris but knowing she would not respond, Harris was not "acting as a govern-
ment representative, she was acting as a Bush-Cheney representative," Harris's
and Republicans' delaying tactics in court regarding the recount.
LePore reverting to the I990 voting standards of a recount, Judge
LaBarga's reversal of that standard, wanted prominent Democrats to be
observers to counterbalance prominent Republican observers, but that did not
happen, feels that conspicuous Republican observers wanted future political
appointments, view of the three canvassing board members, issue of
Thanksgiving Day delay, numbers were changed in tabulation process when
LePore recorded them, Bruce Rogow (LePore's lawyer) did not give good legal
advice, Rogow believed case would get to U.S. Supreme Court, role in Miami-
Dade Canvassing Board, Sunday morning emergency hearing in Miami with
Judge Tobin about recount, Miami-Dade Canvassing Board making decision
not to do recount, Bush team's view of the calm Volusia County recount.
Issue of Republicans flying in "storm troopers" to Miami-Dade to "cause
problems" during recount, stopping the Miami-Dade recount, view of Miami-
Dade Supervisor of Elections David Leahy, those who participated in the
"mob" to disrupt counting have been seen in other places with "election prob-
lems," never saw post-election issues as a federal matter-strictly a state "vote-
counting issue," preparing brief for Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals case,
controversy over November 26 deadline, does not agree with Bush lawyers that
Florida Supreme Court was changing the law, semantics issue of Florida elec-
tion law-returns "must be" included and "may be" included, does not feel that
Gore legal team did a good job persuading the Florida Supreme Court to set
the recount standards.
Extensive role inJudge Sanders Sauls's court, issue of gettingJudge Sauls
recused, unfavorable view of Sauls and his much-too-quick decision, Florida
Supreme Court's 4-3 decision for statewide manual recount of under-votes,
believes Florida Supreme Court justices did not contain "a partisan bone in
their bodies or in their minds," U.S. Supreme Court's entanglement with
Florida Supreme Court issues, military ballots controversy and how
Republican supervisors of elections in Florida Panhandle (military) counties
"controlled the election process" ("they were manipulating the rules to allow
their people, Bush-Cheney, to get some advantage"), knows that Republicans

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won the public relations campaign on counting the military votes.
Wanted more military-oriented prominent Democrats on the visible
scene to counteract such people as General Norman Schwartzkopf, view of
Martin and Seminole counties giving privileged position to Republicans
(Seminole) and allowing request for absentee ballots to leave election office
(Martin), impact of 2000 election: Florida needs to "get into 2Ist century with
regard to voter registration and collection" and evaluate why former felons are
prevented from voting, voters need to pay attention to election process, worries
that September II, 2001, overshadowed importance of this election which
could have been a constitutional crisis but "was averted because of the courts
being able to decide an election-not rioters on the streets."
February 15, 2002
54 .. -Open

FEP 2o
Bruce Rogow
Attorney for Theresa LePore (Supervisor of Elections of Palm Beach County) dur-
ing controversial November 2000 presidential election
Legal background, day after election realized that some Gore person had to be
in charge-only to find out that he would be in charge and representing LePore
as a co-counsel (starting two days after election), early federal court case before
Judge Kenneth Ryskamp in Palm Beach County and its dismissal, butterfly bal-
lot, initial strategy as LePore's attorney-telling her on November II to vote for
full recount, conflicting directives from Butterworth and Harris, Kerey
Carpenter's (counsel from Harris's office) visit to Palm Beach-"it was
clear...she was in there to protect George Bush," "ridiculous" that Butterworth
and Harris be "involved in the campaigns of the presidential candidates,"
thinks Carpenter was a "mole" from Harris's office, semantics of election law
statutes using the words "may" and "shall."
Coming up with legal phrase "interpleader action," role of Florida
Supreme Court to resolve issue of directives between Butterworth and Harris,
Republicans' lawsuit to stop the recount by the Palm Beach County Canvassing
Board, LePore's decision to vote for the recount, procedural questions,
Warren Christopher's personal comment, Democrat Party and other outside
pressure on LePore's legal team, makeup of canvassing board added to prob-
lems, LePore was a "wreck," world watching this "electoral soap opera," what
cost Gore the election: butterfly ballot and especially Ralph Nader, canvassing
board changing standards, realized case would go to U.S. Supreme Court once
Bush attorneys raised "equal protection" arguments-and that Gore would lose.
Strategy in presenting appeal to Judge Middlebrooks, Republicans were
more organized and Democrats were too busy "hunting for votes," Gore
lawyers should have gone to the contest earlier, thinks Democrats had too many
lawyers with no one in charge, believes Democrats could not control the ongo-
ing litigation in many courts and the Republicans could, knew how U.S.
Supreme Court would vote given its political makeup and leanings and felt

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Justice Kennedy was the swing vote, assessing Larry Tribe before Judge
Middlebrooks, being considered to co-represent case with Larry Tribe before
U.S. Supreme Court, Katherine Harris was not impartial, both Harris and
Butterworth should have recused themselves due to their lack of impartiality,
most upset with Kerey Carpenter's suckeringg Burton into seeking [Harris's]
U.S. Supreme Court issuing a remand to Florida Supreme Court,
Florida Supreme Court's 4-3 decision to count all the under-votes was inter-
preting the law-not making law, wonders about reliability of decisions which
were made during this rushed thirty-six-day period, thinks the "chaos" in
Florida greatly affected Justice Kennedy's swing vote, Kennedy may have felt
there was a constitutional crisis, many lawyers and justices "got carried away
with the case and their own importance in the process," feels that Florida Chief
Justice Charles Wells "overstated" the case in the 4-3 decision, believes that
"the most interesting part [of the thirty-six days] was not the legal stuff... [but]
the human dynamics and the personalities that were involved."
U.S. Supreme Court's 5-4 or 7-2 decision about changing standards,
does not see Bush v. Gore case in U.S. Supreme Court as setting a precedent but
sees "every decision of the Supreme Court as a political decision," thinks
media impacted Florida Supreme Court decisions and set the stage for that
court to treat "this in a different way than most ordinary judging would take
place," reasons for thinking that controversial rulings did not undermine
credibility of Florida Supreme Court and U.S. Supreme Court, bad call on
part of Seminole and Martin counties' supervisors of elections to provide assis-
tance to Republicans in putting in voter registration numbers on applications
for absentee ballots.
Emphasizes Ralph Nader costing Gore the election, issue of military
absentee ballots being counted despite arriving after postmark deadline, both
political parties' inconsistent views on counting the votes, this election "was
about winning" in a personal sense, "Bush would have won" if all the votes had
been counted-depending "on how you count the votes," Democrats "did not
earn the right to win" because from the beginning they "knew the election in
Florida was in Palm Beach and Broward counties," does not think 2000 elec-
tion complications will have "any lasting impact as an election" except it will
change some laws and voters will have to be better educated and votes will have
to be counted in "more effective ways," election showed that the "electoral
process was pretty primitive."
View of touch-screen voting, Florida stood out during this election but
the American public does not "hold grudges for a long time," "overriding
reaction is disappointment in the Democrats," did not see that the Democrats
had control of the situation, sees the "star" during this time as Barry Richard.
March 5, 2002
30 Poges-Open

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Mitchell Berger
Friend and senior advisor and attorney for Al Gore during controversial November
2000 presidential election
Background on friendship with Gore and helping him with various political
campaigns since mid-1980s, became senior advisor to Gore's campaign and
chairman of the Federal Victory Fund for the Democratic National
Committee, involvement with environmental issues during campaign, impact
of Nader vote in other states, Elian Gonzalez issue and Miami-Dade vote, rea-
sons for not asking President Clinton to campaign for Gore, Joe Lieberman's
effect on Florida campaign, realized there would be problems with voting by io
a.m. on Election Day, LePore receiving letter from Bobby Brochin (Miami
attorney representing Democratic National Committee) saying her butterfly
ballot is "defective."
LePore not warning voters about confusing ballot until midafternoon,
recalls specifics of confusion in Broward and Palm Beach counties on Election
Day, "greatest disservice done to Gore-Lieberman" was butterfly ballot cases
being filed in the protest phase-which was the wrong time ("filed in the wrong
court at the wrong time" and "by the wrong people"), butterfly ballot case filed
in the Florida Supreme Court, Gore team wanted to stay in the protest phase
because Gore did "not want to contest the presidency," Gore deciding whether
an all-county recount would be in his interest or "nation's interest," recount
during protest phase versus recount during contest phase, believes that "U.S.
Supreme Court was not going to let these votes get counted," checking the tally
versus total re-tabulation during automatic recount, Jim Baker's "effective
propaganda" about the recount.
Warren Christopher did not want judges to be recused, dispels view that
Gore was more concerned with public relations-he was "concerned with the
institutions and the integrity of the institutions," Klain's role versus
Christopher's role, details November 8 with Gore team about whether to do
recount in all sixty-seven counties or selecting just four, reasons for selecting
those four counties, corrects two misconceptions: Gore wanted to do recount
for entire state, impact of several counties doing hand-recounts on their own
and how Harris deals with this, personally wanted to challenge the butterfly
ballot in the contest phase-not the protest phase, story behind Democratic
Party approving butterfly ballot, butterfly ballot layout, legal remedy was "a new
election," "courts ducked a lot of issues here."
View ofJudge LaBarga's decision as being "disingenuous," helped put
legal team together in each of the four counties, emphasizes Gore's desire to
do recount in all sixty-seven counties rather than just four ("allegedly
Democratic strongholds"), what cost Gore the election: butterfly ballot and
Duval County's voting instructions to "vote every page," view ofJudge Burton,
"Republican lawyers either deliberately or grossly negligently... misled the
Broward County Canvassing Board" about standards (-,. L L,.. .- Texas dim-
ple standard), negative opinion of Harris, should be a law to prohibit a Florida

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Secretary of State from becoming involved in campaigns, Butterworth's
involvement, more negative comments about Harris.
Palm Beach County Canvassing Board switching standards, problem was
that U.S. Supreme Court took certified total from Harris and said it was the
correct total, view of Palm Beach Canvassing Board and that Harris's office
"clearly was not giving nonpartisan neutral advice," impressed withJudge
Middlebrooks's decision about this being a state issue, does not put "much cre-
dence" in "equal protection" argument, negative opinion ofJustice Antonin
Scalia, feels that Scalia's "concurrence on December 9, enjoining the votes
from being counted, was raw, brute power devoid of legal analysis," involve-
ment inJudge Lewis I decision, Justice Sandra Day O'Connor's dissatisfaction
with Florida Supreme Court's response to remand, U.S. Supreme Court's
"trap" for Florida Supreme Court: setting standards (changing the law) or vio-
lating Fourteenth Amendment.
View that Florida Supreme Court ChiefJustice Charles Wells was trying
to hold off the legislature ("the Roundheads over there are going to dismantle
the courts"), "political overtones in the courtroom," Florida House "had no
authority" to seat Bush electors, questions Dexter Douglass would have asked
Harris if he could have subpoenaed her, feels that at times Gore team members
did not listen to their lawyers, impact of Gore's continual respect for govern-
mental institutions (his "decisions were always calibrated by that thinking"),
Pullen v. II.,-.-.. case (Illinois dimpled ballots), death threats, going into contest
phase with Boies and Douglass in the "lead," negative view ofJudge Sauls and
his ruling, view of Florida Supreme Court's 4-3 decision for under-votes to
be counted and its ramifications on both sides.
Assessment of U.S. Supreme Court's 5-4 decision: political and parti-
san-and believes it should not have taken the case, issue of "equal protection"
problem, U.S. Supreme Court's ruling is "an anti-state's rights decision," view
ofJustice Stevens's dissent, "ultimate irony" in Florida is that Election Reform
Bill of 2001 does not require one type of voting machine for every county and
U.S. Supreme Court ruled that Florida needed to have a standard, absentee
ballots problem has not been resolved (postmark dates), Gore legal team's brief
never filed after U.S. Supreme Court 5-4 decision-at Gore's request, assess-
ment of Florida Supreme Court, Peggy Robbins in Martin County permitting
Republicans to correct their absentee ballot requests, supervisors of elections
receiving little guidance from Harris.
Reasons why Republicans were effective during entire election process,
impact of television networks' conservative ownership, Gore's concession
reflected his respect of the institutions, comments about Jeffrey Toobin's book
Too Close to Call, impact of election on Florida-none of the problems have been
fixed, personal impact of election, understanding the fragility of a democracy.
March 5, 2002
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FEP 22
J. M. "Mac" Stipanovich
Personal legal advisor and Republican strategist to Katherine Harris (Florida
Secretary of State) during controversial November presidential 2000 election
Background and involvement with Republican Party campaigns in Florida, did
not pay much attention to Election Day 2000, background to past political
involvement with Harris and subsequent political involvement with 2000 elec-
tion, reasons for hiringJoe Klock as Harris's attorney, did not "give legal
advice per se...but probably more in the role kind of as a surrogate for
Katherine and as a well-informed client," issue of being in contact with
Governor Jeb Bush's office or George Bush's campaign, "goal was to bring the
election to an bring it in for a landing with George Bush at the con-
trols," issue of how to do automatic recount, feels that Gore team asking for
recount in only four Democratic counties "was all tactics, there was very little
Assessing Christopher and Baker's leadership, thinks "the decisions about
Florida were being made here in Florida" (not in Texas), makes analogy
between Harris's office and Bush campaign as "more like the United States and
England rather than some American command and some subordinate
American command," "the assumption, or the supposition, that [Harris]
should have no feelings or no opinions or no preferences in a presidential race
always struck me as being kind of odd" (given that she is) "a partisan elected
statewide official," Butterworth's role, winning the election "was a war to the
knife," winning the public relations battle "was critically important," percep-
tion that Gore did not fight hard enough, Harris's legal opinion of November
13 about certification deadline of November 14 and its ramifications, agrees
with position that it was voter error rather than a legal issue, butterfly ballot.
Intent of the voter issue regarding under-votes and over-votes, Lewis I
decision about exercising "discretion" in deciding to accept late ballots,
Harris's suggestion that her office simply "ask" Broward and Miami-Dade
counties why they cannot finish counting on time (by November 14), reasons
for sending Kerey Carpenter and other observers to all four counties, faulting
Judge Burton about not knowing that asking for an opinion was binding,
"Bush campaign's intention fight tooth-and-nail, hammer-and-tong
over every ballot," controversy over Harris's office being opened on November
26 until 5 p.m. and not waiting until Monday at 9 a.m. to receive vote count,
Harris not giving Palm Beach County two more hours-"we were probably
being a little disingenuous," issue of counting only partial votes and having to
accept them.
Feels that Democrats' "time might have been better spent in a contest"
(rather than protest), contradicts public perception that all four counties "were
just counting away like mad and the clock ran out on them," Harris's discre-
tion versus her flexibility in accepting late vote counts, feels that Miami-Dade
County could have finished on time, "infuriated with Florida Supreme Court
because they did not apply, in our opinion, the appropriate standard of review

Smamlel Prnrtnr Oral HiRtnnr Prngram Catalng nf Cnllrtinns 9nn,
that they would have applied to any other situation involving an agency deci-
sion," controversy over November 26 deadline, negative opinion of Florida
Supreme Court's justices, confusion and controversy over counting of military
ballots, Seminole and Martin counties enabling Republicans to put voter iden-
tification numbers on request forms for absentee ballots.
Eleventh Circuit Court view of issues versus U.S. Supreme Court's view
of situation, favorable view ofJudge Sauls's opinion, Florida Supreme Court's
4-3 decision of December 8 to reverse Judge Sauls's decision, Florida Chief
Justice Charles Wells's dissent, feels that "we were in a very perilous situation in
this country," Florida legislature's 79-41 vote about seating Bush electors and
its implications, U.S. Supreme Court's 5-4 versus 7-2 decision, David Boies's
catch-22 comment, feels that "U.S. Supreme Court did the nation a great
service," Election Reform Act of 2001, voter education, Civil Rights Report,
feels Republicans before the election were too sure of themselves in winning
Florida, Nader's impact, "an argument could certainly be made that the
majority of the people who went to the polls that day intending to vote in the
presidential election wanted to vote for Al Gore," reasons for rise of
Republican Party in Florida.
June 10, 2002
4o Pages-Open

FEP 23
Mark Herron
Attorney for Democratic Party during controversial November 2000 presidential
election; expert in Florida election law
Legal background, getting involved in Gore's initial recount efforts on
November 8, general thrust of the strategy in the beginning (manual
recount in just four counties), does not feel that Gore should have gone to
the contest phase sooner, various lawyers using phrase "that's not at my pay
grade" in the decision-making situations, feels that Republicans were better
organized due to more money and a Republican governor and a Republican
legislature, Harris "doing everything she could to make sure...that the votes
weren't going to be counted," description of Tallahassee during those thir-
ty-six days, Jim Baker's "win at all costs" tactics, Republicans' "strategy was
to blow up the process-which they did," butterfly ballot "cost Gore the
election," other circumstances that could have changed the election (Nader
and Duval County ballot controversy).
Represented Pat Buchanan and got his name on the ballot-feelings of
guilt in aftermath, favorably viewed Judge Middlebrooks's decision (state
matter not a federal matter), Herron memo spelling out Florida law
regarding overseas ballots which included military ballots, Republican
response to memo regarding the military ballots, feels that after Bush was
declared winner at end of the thirty-six days that Democrats gave his presi-
dency legitimacy but if Gore had won the Republicans would have had
"continuing demonstrations in the street every day," Democrats tried to

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work within the law and Republicans did everything "to frustrate the law,"
Duval County's over-votes, Gore's last appeal that was never filed in Judge
Lewis's court concerning over-votes to get "a clear indication of the voter's
intent," maybe "it was a mistake at the time" not to ask the Florida Supreme
Court to count over-votes.
Feels that Lieberman got "ambushed" on the military ballots contro-
versy, "dual standard out there for military votes versus everybody else's
votes," feels that "people lost all focus for why we have rules for people to
vote and people not to vote," question about whether or not administrative
consent decree takes precedence over Florida law (regarding absentee bal-
lots and postmarks), Election Reform Act of 2001 opened door to "over-
seas [voter] fraud" by stating that overseas ballots could just be signed and
dated, "hyper-technicalities" such as misplacement of witness signatures
and votes coming from Israel, Republicans used "political rhetoric and we
were losing the war" (Republicans' stand on counting military ballots),
many instances of accepting post-election dated ballots, refers to Harris as
a "political animal" wanting to see Bush get elected, assessing U.S. Supreme
Court and Florida Supreme Court.
Reasons that Florida Supreme Court did not change the election laws
(changing the dates), "safe harbor" date of December 12, realizing when the
Democrats could not continue the contest, Florida legislature's voting to
seat electors was a "dangerous precedent" ("it puts the politics over a
process of law"), "scary thought" that "Florida's elected political folks basi-
cally said that the Florida Supreme Court didn't count in all this and that
the rule of law doesn't count," Republican Florida legislature's "mission" to
reduce the power of the Florida Supreme Court, does not see this U.S.
Supreme Court as an "activist court" in every way but only as "a court that
decided an election," feels that U.S. Supreme Court "perceived a constitu-
tional crisis" and hence its 5-4 decision, when the U.S. Supreme Court's
5-4 decision was given "everything shut down in my mind."
Timing of his final brief to askJudge Lewis "to order that over-votes
be canvassed as well" (after Florida Supreme Court's 4-3 decision and
before U.S. Supreme Court's 5-4 decision), how this election impacted
Florida, print media were generally fair but cites instances where they were
not fair, new phrase regarding twenty-four-hour cable channels: "you have
to feed the beast" (the media that broadcasts comments without question-
ing), Republicans won the public relations war, view of the Miami-Dade
County canvassing board's reluctance to count the votes, e-mail threats
"with respect to the overseas absentee ballots crashed our computer system"
[at law firm], Republicans "were not making responsible statements,"
"Republican congressional aides were leading this chaos in the Dade
County courthouse."
How experience has affected career (had to leave law firm, "deep dis-
trust of media," "have become more radical in my politics"), negative opin-
ion of many of the Florida Election Reform Act of 2001's provisions and

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also the touch-screen method of voting, elimination of the second primary
is "politically motivated," Seminole and Martin counties controversy about
request forms for absentee ballots and why Democrats did not challenge
that issue.
May 15, 2002
479.. -Open

FEP 24
Lucy Morgan
Reporter for St '. 7.. Times to cover controversial November 2000 presidential
Assignments in Tallahassee during 2000 presidential election, recalls first sign
that the world outside was watching Florida's vote count was when a reporter
from the LosAngeles Times arrived, invasion of the news media and then the pro-
testers-"a ludicrous scene," Democrat and Republicans' use of flags to indicate
respective press conferences, out-of-state politicians coming in, trying to file a
story only to have it quickly outdated because events were happening too fast,
feels St. -. '. .. Times gave balanced reporting, bothered by erroneous stories by
other reporters, learned the "fallacy of the exit polls," realized that many
Republican counties in the Florida Panhandle had not yet been counted when
the networks announced a Gore victory, "legal nightmare" of so many court
cases and they happened "on a very fast track."
Trying to delegate St. .. Times's reporters to cover every situation
(Florida Capitol Building, courts, press conferences), reason why Gore lost in
Florida and overall (Gore "sought to limit the votes that were counted as
opposed to counting them all"), Gore should have gone to the contest phase
much earlier, Nader and Buchanan "took enough votes [away from Gore] to
have decided the election in Florida," refers to Florida counties as "sixty-seven
different fiefdoms...each of them deciding how they were going to handle the
recount" (with no one standard), butterfly ballot could have been a factor in
Gore's loss, favorable opinion of both Christopher and Baker, "very angry
rhetoric" between political parties "was not the finest hour of politics in
Florida," parties "were waging all kinds of war, political, legal, and PR,"
Miami-Dade County recount issue.
Feels that both parties "wanted to win at all costs"-not just the
Republicans, expedited schedules of lawyers filing briefs in hours rather than
months, saw no evidence of organized discrimination, no money to educate
voters, issue of Florida Highway Patrol stopping drivers in Leon County,
assessment of Harris-"clear she didn't know anything about the election law,"
there was "just very little affinity for [Harris] anywhere in the Governor's
empire," Mac Stipanovich had a "shoot-from-the-hip attitude," Stipanovich
was "persona non grata toJeb," assessment of Clay Roberts, Stipanovich view-
ing Harris as a "potential candidate for governor or for the U.S. Senate,"
Butterworth's intimidations and unsolicited written opinions, military ballots
controversy and sixty-seven different standards in accepting them, Seminole

Flnrida 9nnn Flprtinn Prnjert 8
and Martin counties issue of Republicans handling the absentee ballot request
Florida Supreme Court "looked political," saw Florida's Supreme Court's
changing the date of November 26 as making law, realized that U.S. Supreme
Court would take on this case "from the minute it happened," Craig Waters
(spokesman for Florida Supreme Court) putting "pleadings on the Internet
the minute they were out was inspired," assessment ofJudge Sauls's decision
(no votes would change the outcome and canvassing boards had acted within
their discretion), surprised by follow-up Florida Supreme Court's 4-3 deci-
sion to continue the voting, Tom Feeney wanting to be in the spotlight, Gore
should have asked for a complete recount in every county, feels that U.S.
Supreme Court should not have taken the case but entered it because it was a
federal election.
Decisions for both U.S. Supreme Court and Florida Supreme Court
were political and both are "activist" courts, important decisions being ren-
dered at night, "safe harbor" date of December 12, impact of 2000 election,
personal impact of election ("we felt like we were living in the middle of histo-
ry"), favorable view of Florida Election Reform Act of 2001 (provisional bal-
lots and touch-screen versus optical scan ballots and doing away with the sec-
ond primary), for thirty-six days we lived in "sheer hell," hopes that next elec-
tion will be a "landslide for somebody, I don't care who," thinks that city of
Tallahassee came out of this ordeal looking good, recalls Barry Richard's com-
ment "that he thought this crisis did for Tallahassee much what F..'..... ,
Garden of Good and Evil did for Savannah."
May 16, 2002
35 Pages-Open

FEP 25
Tim Nickens
Political editor for St. '1., Tmesto cover controversial November 2000 presi-
dential election
Covered entire presidential election campaign of 2000 as political editor for
St. T '. '. Times, traveled with George W. Bush last eight days of campaign,
before Election Day sensed that Bush team was "quite nervous," knew that Bush
could not win Florida based on his stance on Social Security and the environ-
ment and the black vote, effect ofJoe Lieberman on the Gore ticket, St.
Petersburg Times's endorsement of Gore, assessing fairness of print media on
campaign trail, perception of Bush and Gore during presidential debates,
writing column three different times during night of November 7-8, "con-
vinced that more people tried to vote for Gore than Bush," feels that Gore lost
due to Nader and the butterfly ballot, Gore should have gone to the contest
phase sooner and should have had a statewide recount "right away."
Bush won the public relations battle especially on the military votes, Mark
Herron's five-page memo on guidelines for counting military votes, Harris was
"her own worst enemy because she clearly was unprepared for the onslaught of

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international attention," Harris's legal and political problems, in hindsight
Butterworth and Harris should not have been partisan, feels that Governor Jeb
Bush had "plenty of influence," Republicans had "more resources, more
money" so they out-organized the Democrats, Gore had Boies but Republicans
had "waves of very smart lawyers," Republicans sending down congressional
aides to demonstrate, thinks that David Leahy was "intimidated" and hence
stopped the Miami-Dade recount, Republicans monitored "every courthouse
everywhere" whereas the Democrats were "out-manned."
Surprised by the U.S. Supreme Court's 5-4 decision relying on the
Fourteenth Amendment's "equal protection" clause, Bush and Harris camp
"arguing to stick with the rules" except when it came to counting the illegal
military ballots, Florida Panhandle canvassing boards caving into "hotshot"
Republican lawyers who told officials to count illegal military ballots," "can-
vassing boards never got any scrutiny," Democrats should have better explained
Herron memo to make their case about illegal military ballots, Duval County's
19,000 over-votes, feels that "Bush would have won any hand-recount that did
not count over-votes....But if you count the under-votes and the over-votes,
then Gore won every time," canvassing boards did not "determine the intent of
the voter."
"Misnomer" to call it a recount because forty-one of the sixty-seven
counties re-tallied the machine totals instead of recounting the ballots,
Republican strategy of saying the votes had been counted and recounted when
they had not actually been recounted and reporters did not grasp that point,
will never know who actually won, view of Florida Supreme Court, Judge Sauls
"let the thing get away from him...because they're [Sauls and Harris] not used
to that kind of scrutiny," Boies and Douglass versus Republican lawyers in
Sauls's courtroom, very impressed with Boies but "he didn't have the firepower
behind him" as the Bush high-powered legal teams, Christopher was not "a
good counterpart" to Baker, Barry Richard became the Republicans' legal
team's "savior.
Florida Supreme Court's 4-3 decision to count the votes, Gore should
have asked to have the over-votes recounted, "the broadest possible opinion
would have been to count everything," dynamics between Florida Supreme
Court and Florida legislature, "dangerous precedent" for Florida House voting
on Bush electors, Florida House versus Florida Senate (Senate holding out on
choosing electors), controversy of "safe harbor" date of December 12, not sur-
prised that U.S. Supreme Court took the case but "a little bit surprised that
they stopped the recount in midstream," "hard to tell" what the U.S. Supreme
Court's motivations were in this 5-4 decision, views decision as "short-term
damage" not long-term, realized the 5-4 decision was political when U.S.
Supreme Court said "it only applies" to this situation-justices did not want to
set a precedent.
Election had positive impact on Florida (new machines, voter education
programs, realizing that "elections are not exact science"), negative impact
(voters have "lost confidence in the system"), view of Election Reform Act of

Flnrira 9nnn Flprtinn Prnjert 8
2001, "luck of the draw" in Florida being in the spotlight due to close elec-
tions elsewhere, statewide poll conducted in spring of 2001 on black voters'
view of election, no voter fraud discovered, controversy in Seminole and
Martin counties about request forms for absentee ballots' identification num-
bers, view of election ("interesting" to observe "the personalities that came
through" and also the "remarkable political power of national political parties
and their ability to instantly raise money and mobilize and organize"), person-
al impact (AI was worn out for a long time"), agrees "that George Bush lost the
election but won the recount."
Clear that GovernorJeb Bush was following court cases "very closely" and
that he was "quite an astute observer," anecdote about Douglass's birthday dur-
ing that time, getting "twenty seconds of fame" on being interviewed outside
the Florida Capitol Building, people turned to newspapers "to sort out the
complicated issues after September II, 2001," and the same with the post-elec-
tion day-by-day evolving situation, St. : ., Times's goal: [We tried to] give
people a sense of the important things, here's the proper context that you can't
get in the two-minute sound-bite, and here's where it might go."
May 21, 2002
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FEP 26
Kerey Carpenter
Assistant general counsel for Florida Department of State, represented Katherine
Harris (Secretary of State) in Palm Beach County recount during controversial
November 2000 presidential election
Legal background, hired in 1998 by Florida Department of because of litiga-
tion experience, involvement in decision-making on day after election, reasons
to hire Joe Klock as an attorney for Harris, set up office in Klock's office in
West Palm Beach, initial inner group in Harris's circle of legal advisors
(McKay, Carpenter, Kearney, Roberts), Stipanovich's role, Harris's order to
have a "brick wall" between both parties and governor's office, feels Harris
"made very principled decisions," Harris's mission statement in form of a
press release on reasons for sending Carpenter to Palm Beach County (to rep-
resent department in litigation, to advise LePore, and to keep Harris abreast of
changing situations).
First meeting with Palm Beach County Canvassing Board and their attor-
neys on November io, benefits of security badge, preferred to be behind the
scenes to give answers, Judge Burton not :.- .1- .... 11. i, a request for an advisory
opinion from Harris's office was binding, details of this controversial request,
met with individual members of canvassing board rather than as an assembled
group (Florida Sunshine Law would have considered it a meeting open to the
public and the media), issue of voter error versus machine error, "shall" and
may" semantics issue about certification, meaning of an "automatic recount"
(re-tabulating the totals or actually recounting the votes), learned about notices
about hearings from watching CNN, negates the view that Harris had already

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made up her mind and did not intend to allow any extensions ("she definitely
considered everything very carefully").
Reasons why Harris did not withhold certification until November 17
(when all the overseas and absentee ballots came in), "I think she [Harris] fol-
lowed the law," speculates that Gore did not want to go to the contest phase
because he "didn't want to be perceived as having lost in challenging an elec-
tion," not surprised by Florida Supreme Court's decision to allow recount but
"disappointed," not aware of death threats surrounding canvassing board
members in Palm Beach County, evaluating the three canvassing board mem-
bers, Judge Burton wanting to go back to the 1990 standard rather than using
the "sunlight" one, LePore wanted legal direction, LePore getting "pressure
from Bob Montgomery" and then she "did cave in" to voting in favor of the
recount, feels that Carol Roberts "appeared very partisan" and "wanted a cer-
tain result"-she wanted a "county-wide recount."
Internal dissension among canvassing board members, consolidating all
the cases "to have a uniform result" but consolidation was viewed as a political
move on Harris's part to stop the recount, "lawyers on one side" protecting
Harris "from a legal perspective" versus her public relations advisors (such as
Stipanovich) having "different takes on how things should be handled," nega-
tive view of Ben Kuehne (Gore lawyer) and also negative opinion of Mark
Wallace (Bush attorney), saw chads on floor and furniture in counting room,
did not manipulate canvassing board to ask for an advisory opinion, reaction
to Toobin's comment (in book Too Close to Call) that "it is no exaggeration to say
that Kerey Carpenter and Charles Burton won the presidency for George W.
Bush with their decision to go to a stricter standard."
Reaction to comment made by Bruce Rogow saying "[Carpenter] was
good, she was quiet. It was clear to me that she was there to protect George
Bush," reaction to Kuehne's comment that "Kerey Carpenter was sitting down
there because Katherine Harris was told by Bush/Cheney to get someone in all
those counties" and to know what is going on, returning to Tallahassee on
November 17 to get involved in litigation proceedings (Harris was defendant in
forty-two lawsuits at that time), anecdote about falling asleep on a table while
writing a brief, issue of postmark on military ballots in court case before Judge
Smith, felt from the "get-go [Democrats] were going to have >equal protec-
tion' problems with the method by which the recounts were being asked for,"
surprised that Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals did not use the "equal pro-
tection" grounds.
Feels thatJudges Lewis and Clark made correct decisions about the
Seminole and Martin counties' legal issues on absentee ballots, "shocked" to
hear about the Florida Supreme Court's 7-0 ruling on November 21 about
extending certification date to November 26, knew reasons for selecting that
date of November 26 (loss of five days in recount after November 21), Harris's
decision not to accept recount votes after 5 p.m. on November 26 (Sunday),
post-election conversation withJudge Sauls, "weeks later, [Palm Beach
County] still hadn't sent the numbers [to Harris]," feels that there would have

Flnrira 9nnn Flprtinn Prnjert

been more time to count votes during the contest phase, issue of December 12
as the "safe harbor" date, "amazing experience" to attend U.S. Supreme Court
sessions whenJoe Klockwas representing Harris, very impressed with Justice
Klock's misidentification of two justices, essence of Klock's argument,
practice sessions before appearing before U.S. Supreme Court, was not sur-
prised by 5-4 decision and "it was probably pragmatic and legal," Election
Reform Act of 2001 should not have done away with the punch-card ballots,
must educate the voter about the voting equipment, Toobin's book (Too Close to
Call) "got it wrong" concerning personal role, media was "somewhat harsh" on
Harris, Harris's upcoming election for Congress, personal impact of these
thirty-six days ("exhausted" and "ended up with sciatica"), "extremely glad to
have been involved" in this election process because "it is a part of history,"
anecdote about flowers, anecdote about Debbie Kearney (general counsel for
Florida Department of State), feels that "a large majority of us are really glad
[Bush] is here."
June 11, 2002
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FEP 27
Bob Poe
Chairman of Florida Democratic Party (since March 2000) during controversial
November 2000 presidential election
Legal background, goal was to get Florida "in-play" during upcoming
November election, Republicans never admitted post-election that they mis-
calculated Florida and "they damn near lost the presidency," Republicans
underestimated turn-out of African-American votes and the "Clinton
Republicans" votes and non-Cuban Hispanic votes, Gore's strategy in Florida,
importance in Florida of addingJoe Lieberman to ticket (re-energized cam-
paign and "rebuilding some bridges between [Jesse] Jackson and theJewish
community"), Jackson's get-out-the-vote bus trip, Gore in South Beach night
before election, Democrats' "miscalculation was in the Panhandle"-"too little
too late" in publicizing Gore, description of Election Day, realized by 9:30
a.m. on Election Day that something was not right in Palm Beach County.
Democrats passed out flyers in Palm Beach County about butterfly ballot
before LePore did, "emotional roller-coaster" during night, became one of
the "point-people" during protest phase ("election protests had to be filed
through the Democratic Party" in each county), Bill Nelson's (Democratic sen-
ator) win was overshadowed by everything else, legality of butterfly ballot, "idea
that [Democrats] cherry-picked the counties is totally erroneous," did not have
"human resources" and "financial resources" to protest in all sixty-seven coun-
ties so therefore party protested in just four counties, issue of counting over-
votes, the four percent who did not use the butterfly correctly was more than
537 votes, election was like the "perfect storm" ("He could've survived Palm
Beach had Duval [County] not happened. He could have survived Duval had

Samliel Prnrtnr Olral Hi-tnrn Prngrm Catalng nf Cnllprtinns 9nni
Miami-Dade not happened")..."plus the Nader vote."
Harris should have given directive to every county in automatic recount
phase to do a complete recount-not just re-tally the computer figures,
Republicans were "more aggressive" as seen by who they sent down: James
Baker "a street fighter" versus Warren Christopher "not a go-for-your-throat"
leader, Republicans' constant repetition of the votes have been counted and
recounted "mantra," using example of a dollar bill not going through a vend-
ing machine, Republicans "won the battle of the recount" because Gore was
concerned how the public viewed him, Democrats thought they had to follow
the protest phase first rather than going straight to the contest phase, contro-
versy over Seminole and Martin counties' request forms for absentee ballot
(Sandra Goard "had a different standard" for both parties).
Lewis and Clark's joint ruling on the Seminole and Martin counties'
request forms controversy, influence of cable outlets (CNN, Fox, MSNBC,
etc.), judges being influenced with public pressure, "mean-spiritedness" of
Republicans' public relations war, Republican congressional staffers using
intimidating tactics in Miami, "tremendous potential for violence many
times," Republicans' delaying tactics in observation of recounts, Harris "never
took off her George Bush hat," Mac Stipanovich is "not called 'Mac the Knife'
for nothing," reasons why Republicans would not give "any latitude," "contrast
is striking" between Harris and Butterworth's performance, Mark Herron's
memo about how to disqualify overseas ballots, Republicans' view of military
ballots versus absentee ballots coming from Israel.
Republicans complied with "whatever suited them," Tom Feeney setting "a
horrible precedent" in seating Bush electors, saw Florida Supreme Court 7-0
decision to extend the date to recount the votes to November 26 as interpret-
ing existing law and not creating a new law, more surprised by closeness of 4-3
decision by Florida Supreme Court than actual decision, U.S. Supreme
Court's intervention and rulings were political moves and rulings "were com-
pletely inconsistent with their other rulings," idea of voter intent, agrees with
Justice Breyer that there was still time to do a recount, opportunities where
Gore should have changed his strategy (should have counted the over-votes),
Republicans' push in Congress during this time to abolish the Electoral
Hypocrisy of Republicans denouncing elections determined by courts
until U.S. Supreme Court making final decision, Election Reform Act of
2001, concept of placing a "I choose not to vote in this election" spot on a bal-
lot so machine would not count it as an under-vote, "suspicious" that Justice
Department is focusing on Haitian and Hispanic communities "where the
Republican Party is trying to make inroads politically," Justice Department
never interviewed "groups that filed suit," supervisors of elections were furious
with Harris's felon list which she never corrected, "Republicans had a tremen-
dous public relations machine," "emergence of this right-wing radio and tele-
vision," events became sensationalized by media, election "was a life-changing
event," becoming more "cynical" but also being elevated in national politics.

Flnrira qnnn Flprtinn Prnjert 8
Election shows importance of Florida as a swing state, everything was
"extreme"-no "moderation of anything," never knew who was in control of
Democrats-but Republicans had "aJim Baker," Gore was "too nice" and "too
June 5, 2002
367... -Open

FEP 28
Miguel De Grandy
Attorney for George Bush during the Miami-Dade County Canvassing Board
recount during controversial November 2000 presidential election
Legal background and history of running for office, personal experience of
running for office in Miami-Dade County gave understanding of how
recounts work, "De Grandy Standard" concerning hanging chads, first
involvement was watching ballots go through machine again as part of automat-
ic recount in Miami-Dade Elections Center, joined with Bobby Martinez as
co-counsels to cover Miami-Dade Canvassing Board (Martinez as litigation
side and De Grandy with political perspective), filing motion for a stay in the
recount to Judge Scaris felt Democrats were successful in appealing to emotion
rather than using facts, Democrats confusing voter error with machine error,
evaluating Miami-Dade Canvassing Board members, controversy over canvass-
ing board first voting no on a recount and then reversing itself and the result-
ing litigation, Judge Tobin's decision to let recount continue knowing that a
higher court would rule on it.
Overall Republican strategy was to "try to reverse or halt the decision to
recount all the ballots" in Miami-Dade County, says that Democrats' percep-
tion was Republicans were trying to hold up the counting but strategy "was to
build an evidentiary base that we could overturn the decision of the canvassing
board," procedure for recount in Miami-Dade County (starting with high
Democrat precincts), November 26 deadline restricting ability to do recount,
Sunshine Law permitting observers, confronting Judge King of canvassing
board, issue of subjectivity versus uniformity in recount (board "can't take the
results of one-third of poll count precincts and two-thirds of just under-votes
in the rest of the precincts"), feels that decision for board to do counting on
nineteenth floor violated Sunshine Law.
Anecdote aboutJoe Geller getting arrested, reasons why board votes 3-0
to stop recount, congressional staffers did not come to stop the count but "to
provide resources as observers for the counting tables," when counting stopped
they could not observe so "they're excluded from the process, they had nothing
to do...and they started a protest," Democrats made mistake in picking out-of-
state lawyers unfamiliar with Florida law, issue of giving key government posi-
tions to lawyers on Bush side after it was all over, Republicans were better
organized and the "Democrats seemed to be in disarray," "everybody had their
scope of responsibility," Democrat lawyers "were living it [thirty-six days] day-
to-day," Gore did "flop flops" on vote counting whereas Bush was always "con-

8_Samilpl Prnrtnr fral Hlitnnr Prngrm Catalng nf Cnllprtinns 9nn/
sistent" ("don't count anything"), does not feel canvassing board was "intimi-
Feels that media "played too much of a role" which may have affected
judges' thinking, assessment of Harris ("her decisions were right on point"),
evaluation of Baker and Christopher as leaders, reasons for disagreeing with
Judge Middlebrooks's decision about this being a state matter rather than a
federal matter, "sad day" when Florida Supreme Court gave 7-0 decision
about continuing the recount because ruling was not "based on the law," Gore
should have gone to the contest phase from the beginning, factor of voter
responsibility to vote correctly, poor opinion of Florida Supreme Court rul-
ings which seemed "illogical" (court went "from the clear mandates of the law
into the gray area of trying to do equity"), does not see Florida legislature as
setting a dangerous precedent when it voted to seat Bush electors.
Reaction to U.S. Supreme Court's 5-4 decision ("a very well reasoned
opinion"), each of the sixty-seven counties should have adhered to its stan-
dards rather than changing them in midstream, feels that U.S. Supreme Court
had every right to take this case because it was a federal election, process "was a
unique opportunity to participate in a once-in-a-lifetime event."
August 21, 2002
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FEP 29
Kendall Coffey
Attorney for Gore regarding overall strategy during controversial November 2000
presidential election
Legal background, impact of Elian Gonzalez saga on 2000 presidential
election, contacted morning after election by Florida's Democratic Party
office and told to focus on Palm Beach County, organizational strategy with
Gore team (Christopher, Daley, Klain, Kuehne), felt that "from day one,
rightly or wrongly, maybe understandably, we were the losers," Democrats
were "always walking on e.. i.-11 ." Democrats "exercised judgment," no
legal basis to do a statewide manual recount, Republicans "were in a posi-
tion to be more aggressive," manpower question about filing in all coun-
ties, Democratic Party "did not have good on-the-ground intelligence" in
many counties (to petition within seventy-two hours after the polls closed),
reasons for asking for recounts in four particular counties.
Challenge to the illegality of the butterfly ballot, feels there was time
for a recount in Palm Beach County, Florida Supreme Court's ruling fol-
lowed the "will of the voter" law, "dismayed" with performance of the Palm
Beach County Canvassing Board, explicit instructions regarding standards
should have been issued to the canvassing boards, during the automatic
recount votes should have been run through machines again-not simply
re-tallied-and this would have helped Gore, reaction to Judge
Middlebrooks's decision, using the Fourteenth Amendment's "equal pro-
tection" clause is "not a good argument," sees the irony in having this

Flnrirla nnn Flprtinn Prnjert 8
clause dismissed early on and then it "carried the day" in the end, under-
stood Republicans' strategy to lose in the lower courts but ultimately they
would win in the U.S. Supreme Court.
Involvement with Miami-Dade Canvassing Board and choosing three
precincts for recount, Bush team turned down offer to name three
precincts, performance of Miami-Dade Canvassing Board members was
"inspiring"-two county court judges (King and Lehr) getting "caught up in
their historical Cuisinart," felt that a recount in Miami-Dade would be
beneficial for Gore, reasons why Judge Lehr changed her vote to do a
recount and reasons why Bush team filed a lawsuit about this recount,
David Leahy's response to November 26 certification deadline, Republicans
were protesting recount because Gore was moving ahead due to canvassing
board using the "voter intent standard" rather than a more conservative
standard, reasons why Leahy stopped the count, certain that the "Brooks
Brothers" protesters applied "political heat" on the board, "hogwash to take
the position that [recount] wasn't doable in a mathematical sense or in a
timing sense."
Incident involvingJoe Geller getting "punched," Democratic Party's
key "standpoint" was Palm Beach and a "more appropriate standard," Leahy
should have counted just the under-votes instead of all the votes, view of
"Republican partisans" brought down to Miami to protest, moment of fame
was showing photo of a protester who claimed he was not there, believes it is
natural to be appointed in Bush administration as a reward for legal talents
during these thirty-six days, disappointment over Mayor Penelas not offer-
ing needed support to Gore 1 i.- .11.- Gore strategy in Judge Sauls's court,
pressure from all directions on Florida Supreme Court ("they were under
siege, in a sense") and its 4-3 decision.
View of Florida Supreme Court ChiefJustice Charles Wells's dissent,
the close 4-3 decision made it easier for U.S. Supreme Court to step in,
Chief Justice Wells's statement about a constitutional crisis was overstated
("courts trump legislatures"), Florida House voting 79-4I to seat Bush
electors was an "embarrassment," feels that from day one Jim Baker was
focused on the U.S. Supreme Court, "blown away" about how knowledge-
able the U.S. Supreme Court justices were about these issues, Florida
Supreme Court did not change the law regarding the November 26 dead-
line-the court interpreted the law, establishing the November 26 date "did
make them [Florida Supreme Court] look a little bad" by not giving a rea-
son, devastated by U.S. Supreme Court's 5-4 ruling (a "brazenly untenable
decision"), "a low point for the [U.S.] Supreme Court" was..."awarding it
to him [Bush]."
Justice Scalia's theory of "irreparable harm," that decision will proba-
bly be considered as "an aberration and perhaps an example of result-ori-
ented decision-making," "ironic" that U.S. Supreme Court based its deci-
sion on the Fourteenth Amendment, "fabulous experience as a lawyer" to
participate in this process but "exhausting," has not seen Democratic Party
coming together after these thirty-six days, Harris was not "a source of

Samimpl Prnrtnr Oral Hittnnr Prngram Cataing nf Cnllrtinns qnna
pride to Floridians," Harris's worst partisan decision was not accepting
votes after the Sunday 5 p.m. deadline, equating Democrats in post-elec-
tion evaluation as "people who forget nothing and learn nothing," positive
views of Gore as a client, this thirty-six-day period was "one of [this coun-
try's] defining moments."
August 23, 2002
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FEP 30
John M. McKay
President of Florida Senate (Republican) (2000-2002) during controversial
November 2000 presidential election
Did not anticipate in early stages of post-election that Florida legislature would
get involved, became President of Florida Senate two weeks after November 7
election, "quite displeased" with Florida Supreme Court's decision to extend
certification date to November 26 (court was "rewriting the laws and in a sense
usurping the authority of the legislature"), reasons for forming the Oversight
Committee on Electoral Clarification, Fairness and Accuracy, "primary con-
cern was to make sure that Florida's twenty-five electoral votes were counted,"
Election Reform Act of 2001, Oversight Committee's responsibilities were to
"assess the situation, compare and contrast the alternatives...and make a rec-
ommendation," political composition of the committee, reason for appointing
newly elected Rod Smith to committee, two briefs filed before Florida
Supreme Court by Florida Senate and Florida House.
Only one contact with Bush team (with Baker), special legislative session
called, controversial selection of lawyers to assist committee, implored state
senators not to go on TV, felt it was necessary to achieve "finality" by the "safe
harbor" date of December 12, 2001, to select slate of electors, "whoever got
those [twenty-five electoral] votes was immaterial," joining forces with Tom
Feeney to hold a special legislative session for December 8, 2001, but "I was
very cautious" (in this decision), House's perspective was to act by December
12, 2001, and Senate's position was to "not commence to act, we didn't have
the authority to do so, until the December 12, 2001," did not take poll in
Senate to get idea about how senators would have voted-if they had voted, sur-
prised by the Florida Supreme Court's close 4-3 decision about continuing
the recount, felt first 7-0 ruling was a mistake and the 4-3 decision "just com-
pounded it."
Decision "as President of the Senate" not to let the Senate vote because it
"did not have the authority to act until the December 12, 2001," issue was not
a constitutional one at this date (December 8, 2001), it "would have been a
bad precedent for us to take a vote," does not think there was a constitutional
crisis but a "constitutional affirmation," not "surprised"-but "pleased" by the
U.S. Supreme Court's 5-4 decision because the process could have "gone on
ad infinitum," voters should not only be informed about the issues but also
informed about "how to cast a ballot," feels that the credibility of the U.S.

Flnrida 9nnn Flprtinn Prnjprt
Supreme Court was not damaged, Harris's role was "purely ministerial," rea-
sons for not accepting invitations to be interviewed, everything was "unimpor-
tant" except performing "consistently with the [swearing in as President of the
State Senate] oath."
Reasons why Election Reform Act of 2001 did not set up uniform voting
machines for all counties, reasons for eliminating a second primary, "gut"
feeling was that U.S. Supreme Court did not want Florida legislature to get
involved because it would "be setting a dangerous precedent," feels that Justice
Scalia was wrong in saying this was a "constitutional crisis," "this country, and
our state, elected a President in a very calm fashion. I think we ought to be
proud of that."
October 3, 2002
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FEP 31
Craig Waters
Director of Public Information for Florida Supreme Court during controversial
November 2000 presidential election
Background to becoming Director of Public Information for Florida Supreme
Court (starting in 1998), set up Access Initiative and live broadcasts, current
job duties, in Orlando on Election Day, ordered by Florida ChiefJustice
Charles Wells following day to return to Tallahassee quickly to cover inquiries
from media, knew about Florida election law, reflects that about fifty cases
involving 500 attorneys were coming "our way," during thirty-six-day period
got millions of hits on "" website (one day received 3-5 million
hits), creating a webpage for the media, emotional calls received on personal
cell phone, 15,000 emotional e-mails are part of the public record, examples
of some of the emails, accompanied by an armed security guard, becoming an
internationally recognizable figure.
Going from informal meetings with reporters to formal "mass briefings,"
Tallahassee "was a tremendous mob scene" (Democrats, Republicans, prayer
circles, costumed protesters, 800oo reporters, satellite trucks, tents, Batmobile),
securing the website, "people were glad they could read court documents [on
the website] without the media filter," "spinmeisters" putting a "negative spin
on what our court was doing," Chuck Colson (ofWatergate fame) spreading
an erroneous statement" about the Florida Supreme Court (concerning a
legal brief) and how it was "repeated constantly," the "spin effort" was "the
most cynical thing that I saw in all of this" (some "were completely willing to
misinterpret what this court had done, and doing so publicly"), "most positive
aspect" of these thirty-six days: importance of courts "to have a public infor-
mation function and to communicate in a timely basis with the rest of the
Pressure of U.S. Supreme Court to distribute audio of arguments (con-
cerning Bush v. Gore) in response to Florida Supreme Court's openness (and
Sunshine Laws), lawyers' grandstanding (rising and falling "in the public eye"),

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determining access to Florida Supreme Court hearings for journalists and
attorneys (for journalists: "done on a lottery basis"; and for attorneys who were
not arguing the case: hiring Florida State University students to stand in line
for them), security in the courtroom, personal treatment by the media,
media's treatment of Florida Supreme Court (justices were immediately
"stereotyped"), description of a typical day during this period, attitudes of the
justices, court staff had experience in preparing expedited opinions, number
of staff attorneys and interns to help each justice.
Nervous about making the announcement of the court's 4-3 decision
allowing for a recount and the crowd's reaction ("a big moan"), police urged
that he wear a bullet-proof vest, announcement appears immediately on the
website, surprised by U.S. Supreme Court's remand decision, but not sur-
prised by second opinion, surprised by U.S. Supreme Court's decision based
on the Fourteenth Amendment, does not feel that opinions of the Florida
Supreme Court and U.S. Supreme Court were partisan, "Dred Scott [case] was
an abomination. I cannot call Bush v. Gore an abomination," no long-term neg-
ative impact of Florida Supreme Court's credibility, Jim Baker was "quite the
master" at "playing to a public audience," does not see these thirty-six days as a
constitutional crisis.
Personal impact of this time period (it "turned me into something of a
national expert on crisis communications, using the World Wide Web, and
broadcasting"), anecdotes about trying to find a state airplane to transport
records to Washington, and unintentionally talking to GovernorJeb Bush
about it, also a story about Thanksgiving at his aunt's home in Alabama, mental
and physical impact, infection called the "chad crud," turned down offer to
write a "kiss-and-tell book" because "nothing like that [a conspiracy] hap-
October 3, 2002
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FEP 32
E. C. "Deeno" Kitchen
Attorney for Al Gore in controversial November 2000 presidential election
Background to getting involved on the Gore team, Dexter Douglass's phone
calls in early December, Gore team bringing him in late and asking him to
handle the case before Judge Sauls (just a few hours before the court appear-
ance) and "to this date I've never read the complaint," Douglass wanted a local
Tallahassee attorney who knewJudge Sauls, refers to himself as one of the
"sophisticated good ole boys"), saw his role in a trial court-not in an appellate
court, appearing beforeJudge Sauls to propose a pre-trial conference, legal
chaos, Democratic strategy inJudge Sauls's court was to get through the Sauls
decision to immediately appeal to the Florida Supreme Court, explaining
Judge Sauls to other Gore attorneys (never "had a prayer to win it" appearing
before Judge Sauls), knewJudge Sauls would not use delaying tactics in favor of
the Republicans.

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Thought it was a "tactical mistake" to count just in a few counties,
Republicans "won the public relations war without a doubt," negative opinion
of Baker's tactics, hypocrisy of Baker's view of Florida Supreme Court versus
the U.S. Supreme Court, issue ofJudge Sauls ordering Miami-Dade and Palm
Beach counties' ballots brought to Tallahassee and then not counted, expert
witnesses' testimonies on voting machines, strategy to build a record in the trial
court phase to establish facts before the next phase (Florida Supreme Court),
Democrats' "intent of the voter" versus Republicans' rejection of votes because
they were illegal, impressed with both Boies and Richard's arguments before
Judge Sauls but adds "I'm not so sure I liked the horse we were riding"
(Democrats' position), "we should have counted them opposed to the
few" (to be overseen by Judge Sauls).
Claims that Harris was partisan because she was co-chair of the Bush
campaign in Florida ("every decision she made, she made the ones that helped
her candidate"), view of Florida Supreme Court's 4-3 decision ("decision was
touched by the intimidation of the U.S. Supreme Court"), issue of House vot-
ing to seat Bush electors was not a dangerous precedent but "extremely parti-
san," did not want the U.S. Supreme Court to select the President ("shocked at
their decision, the ultimate decision"), "tragedy of the damn decision [U.S.
Supreme Court's 5-4 ruling on Bush v. Gore]" is that it was based on the
Fourteenth Amendment, "disturbing" that the decision was 5-4 rather than
9-0, most of Florida Supreme Court's rulings not being in favor of Gore and
therefore court should not be considered a liberal court, no personal impact
except feeling like "a footnote in history."
Glad that University of Florida versus Florida State football game "inter-
rupted this damn thing," feels that "the butterfly ballot, alone, was the elec-
tion," Bush "didn't win it. He got it," feels that Florida voters' "intent reflected
in the official count" would have been for Gore, Florida's election problems
impacted the state as well as the country through "polarization" of the popula-
tion, elderly voters' problems with voting, long-term impact of this election is
that the U.S. Supreme Court "took a hit," Baker "went down the tube" because
of his outspoken attitude toward the Florida courts.
October10, 2002
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FEP 33
Barry Richard
Chief attorney for George W. Bush in controversial November 2000 presidential
Background to becoming legal counsel for Bush would have represented Gore
if asked, legal firm of Greenberg-Taurig came as a package deal, in charge of
coordinating all the attorneys on the different cases, Bush legal team asking
about his opinions regarding the butterfly ballot and recounts and assessing
different courts, sees Ben Ginsberg as coordinating everything rather than
Baker, George Bush called him three times-but no discussion of case going to

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U.S. Supreme Court, impressed with Ted Olson, within Bush team were the
li.1 ,i ,.- .:ists and the legal strategists, decision about whether to file a law-
suit to stop the recounts in state or federal court, managed all the state cases
and Olson managed federal case from Washington.
Set up offices wherever anything important was occurring, no time to
work with the team of lawyers writing the briefs-worked only with lawyers from
Greenberg-Taurig who were on the various cases, needing more help because
"I was spreading my firm very thin," having to bring in "some additional expe-
rienced lawyers," "easy to work with" Daryl Bristow (from Baker's law firm-
Baker Botts) and Phil Beck and Fred Bartlit, delegating responsibilities to
other lawyers on the forty-seven different cases, likes a "high pressure situa-
tion...and organization and management," working with an Excel software grid
to keep on top of every case, difficult parts were the hearings and to maintain
consistency in position (solution: "I was attempting to argue all the actual
arguments myself'), Baker made key calls on the legal strategy.
Bush team had only three strategy sessions-unlike the Gore team, incor-
rect assumption that case would end up at U.S. Supreme Court, butterfly bal-
lot was "valid" but concerned about Democrats' supporting plaintiffs who filed
suits against the confusing ballot, appearing before Judge LaBarga in Palm
Beach, stating that Florida Supreme Court was not a Democratic court and
voted several times against Gore but had these decisions been pro-Gore then
"that would have made him President," butterfly ballot confusion, elections are
"a messy business" (there are always "errors, screw-ups, and confusions"),
comparing Broward County's way of recounting versus Palm Beach County's
way using different standards.
Gore team always trying to get "a more lenient standard" which ran
counter to the Fourteenth Amendment's different standards clause, Baker's
decision to file in federal court (U.S. District Court) to halt the recounts, legal
brief mentioning "equal protection" written in Ted Olson's office in
Washington, thought "First Amendment [argument] was weak" and
"Fourteenth Amendment [argument] was strong," issue of "safe harbor" date
of December 12 (from 1876 presidential election controversy), states that it was
"absolutely untrue" that Harris "was a stalking horse for the Bush team," Bush
lawyers questioned Harris's filing a suit with Florida Supreme Court to stop
the recount and consolidate all Leon County cases, message from Bush team
was not to contact Harris's office "unless it was the lawyers on a strictly profes-
sional basis within the case."
Harris "took a lot of abuse she didn't deserve" but she was "obviously per-
sonally partisan," Judge Lewis's directive to Harris that she could use discretion
about the certification date of November 14, the "may" and "shall" semantics
issue regarding counting late returns, feels that Gore camp did not go to con-
test sooner because "nobody knew the consequences of what was happening,"
Gore was "fighting time" and did not want to wind up in the Florida legisla-
ture-"they wanted this decided by the state courts," Gore had to consider his
chances of getting a future nomination if he were perceived as a sore loser,

Flnrida 9nnn Flprtinn Prnojrt
does not see how Gore could have won in any of the possible scenarios, does
not feel that Baker was hypocritical in attacking just the Florida Supreme Court
rulings but not the U.S. Supreme Court's decisions.
Florida Supreme Court rendered "a populist opinion" but it's not "fair
to call the Florida Supreme Court's decision activist,'" did not want to make
political comments before the media, reaction to Judge Middlebrooks's deci-
sion and how he would have argued it ("every person in this state has to have an
equally weighted vote" which is "the essence of the Fourteenth Amendment"),
being allowed to speak for only a short time during November 20 hearing (Palm
Beach . .. F .' Hams) before Florida Supreme Court because of his
Democratic Party affiliation and also because he was considered an "outsider,"
Bush legal team members changed their mind about him being "up-front" and
i --. ,- to feel like it was not bad for me to be up-front for them," being per-
mitted by Michael Carvin to speak for five minutes during that hearing ("that's
what catapulted me into a more prominent position").
Carvin becoming "entangled in the defense of statutory construction"
and Boies "arguing a high-principled argument about letting the people vote,"
rumors about Florida Supreme Court having already made up its mind prior
to hearing the oral arguments, had "to get this case on higher ground," his
arguments used before Florida Supreme Court during this hearing, not so
"disturbed" with the 7-0 decision but more "unhappy" with the 4-3 decision
(to continue the recount), thought Florida Supreme Court was "making law"
when it chose the November 26 date, must "distinguish between the lawyers
and the political camp" regarding which judges might be partisan, feels most
judges "rise above" their liberal or conservative labels and "what matters more
to me is the judge's intelligence," favorable view ofJudge Sauls.
Bush's political team's tactic was to move slowly to get past the December
12 date but Bush's legal team did not want to delay the case as part of its "man-
agement of the case," what might have appeared as a delaying tactic (but not
personally deemed as such) was arguing that Boies was "asking for the remedy
[begin counting immediately] before he proves he has a case," expert witnesses
can be "problematic" and risky, counter-arguments against Boies's contention
that "the protest and the contest were entirely disconnected and that it didn't
make any difference what the canvassing board did," Judge Sauls's opinion (no
votes would change the outcome and canvassing boards had acted within their
discretion) was a "slam dunk for me," argument against Boies saying thatJudge
Sauls "didn't count the votes."
Reasons for putting Charles Burton on the stand, no Bush political lead-
ers told their lawyers how to handle the cases (state and federal)-"no political
agendas in what we were doing," answer to Florida Supreme Court Chief
Justice Charles Wells's question about whether or not the Florida Supreme
Court had jurisdiction ("I do think you have limited appellant jurisdiction"),
Judges Lewis and Clark telling a reporter they liked the fact "that I was never
reluctant to concede issues," "you have to know when you can concede it [an
issue] without undermining your case," beneficial that Florida Supreme Court

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ruled 4-3 rather than 7-0-added with the two strong dissents (Wells and
H 1... ". because it would have been harder for the U.S. Supreme Court to
rule as it did, analyzing each of the Florida Supreme Court justices, evaluating
the 4-3 decision that reverses Judge Sauls.
Boies's catch-22 syndrome about adopting specific standards in the
under-vote counting, issue of Seminole County's canvassing board permitting
Republicans to place identification numbers on request forms for absentee
ballots-"it was a tempest in a teapot," Martin County's canvassing board's
alleged violation of election law allowing request forms out of the office-
supervisor's office screwed up" but added that it is not possible to discount
those votes, reasons why "equal protection" clause in Fourteenth Amendment
was not used by Bush team afterJudge Middlebrooks's decision and before the
U.S. Supreme Court used it in its 5-4 decision, reasons why U.S. Supreme
Court stepped in ("the real decision by the five [U.S. Supreme Court justices]
was to end the drama"), confident in the "resilience of the American public"
and in "a system that works fine."
Did not think this post-election process was "embarrassing" but rather
an extraordinary illustration of how a complex society...can resolve its most
fundamental disputes," reporter Peter Aronson a constant presence, thought
media reporting was fair especially since the reporters were the "cream of the
crop," cooperation and mutual respect among lawyers-even between the Gore
and Bush legal teams, issue of illegal military ballots, personal impact of this
thirty-six-day process ("most fun I've ever had practicing law" and "an invigor-
ating experience"), thank-you letter from Bush, no thank-you letter from
Baker, billed about $400,000 for fees and expenses.
October g, 2002
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FEP 34
Donna Blanton
Attorney for Katherine Harris during controversial November 2000 presidential
Background to being asked by Deborah Kearney (five days after election) to
assist Harris's legal team, in essence Harris's office hires the Steel Hector &
Davis firm, first responsibility was to defend lawsuits coming in on an hourly
basis, advised Harris to have Florida Supreme Court or one judge in Leon
County take jurisdiction over all these lawsuits, if Florida Supreme Court had
done that from the outset "everything would have gone so much more smooth-
ly," counties needed to do recounts "consistently," points out that media tar-
geted Harris for wanting to stop the recounts when in fact she wanted the
recount to stop because she thought "it all ought to be handled consistently
statewide," knew the Florida Supreme Court would ultimately hear these cases
but did not know the U.S. Supreme Court would become involved.
Feels that in the beginning Harris's office did not handle public relations
very well, structure of Harris's office, policy of Steel Hector & Davis law firm

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not to communicate with GovernorJeb Bush, Harris .1 1.... a "firewall"-
legally and physically-from Bush campaign, Stipanovich's comment about get-
ting Bush elected differed with Harris's legal team's view, "from a public per-
ception" Harris's being a co-chairman of the Bush campaign "hurt" her offi-
cial status, butterfly ballot, feels that Democrats did not argue from the correct
standpoint which should have been voter error versus mechanical error, Harris
and Clay Roberts "did the best that they could" trying to interpret election laws
"that were not precisely clear," issue of Harris not knowing Florida election law
as part of her duties, Charles Burton's request for an advisory opinion.
Arguing the certification case before Judge Lewis (Lewis I decision),
counties should have prepared legal statements as to why they needed more
time to do recount, "thrilled" with Lewis II opinion about certification, con-
troversy of dates of certification, not surprised by Florida Supreme Court put-
ting a stay on Harris's certification, getting "a lot of grief" for saying votes had
to be in by 5 p.m. rather than 9 a.m. the next day, Palm Beach County never
sent in any certified totals, "[Harris's office] obeyed the law and we told them
up-front," issue of November 26 extension date, Florida Supreme Court's
4-3 decision was "a public policy opposed to a strict statutory
argument" and it was critical of Harris, Harris was "hurt by it" because "she was
trying to follow the law in a very difficult situation."
Did not understand why Democrats didn't want certification earlier so
they could then have a longer time for the contest phase, "frustrated" over how
Harris's office was not "communicating what we were doing," "huge mistake"
not to explain Harris's position, Harris's office was "afraid of the press," close-
ness of Florida Supreme Court's 4-3 decision and Florida ChiefJustice
Charles Wells's dissent, involvement in Seminole and Martin County cases
(supervisors of elections permitted Republicans to put identification numbers
on request for absentee ballots), surprised that U.S. Supreme Court got
involved but saw the need for closure, editing briefs forJoe Klock's appearance
before U.S. Supreme Court, anecdote about Klock's confusing U.S. Supreme
Court justices' names, feels that U.S. Supreme Court's 5-4 decision based on
"the 'equal protection' analysis was very strange" but thinks "it was a results-
driven opinion."
Does not feel that every county will have uniform voting machines and
standards if the U.S. Supreme Court's argument is carried to the logical
extreme, Election Reform Act of 2001, importance of voter education ("I
don't know how much [Republicans in Florida legislature] want to educate
some Democratic voters"), concern for making it easier for the elderly to vote,
Civil Rights Commission Report and its view of Harris, personal view of
Harris, feels media treated Harris's office fairly-but not her, emphasizes that
Harris's office should have communicated more frequently with the media
(and because that did not happen "then your side of the story doesn't really get
much play"), this period was "without a doubt, the most intense thing that I've
ever been through," not pleased with Stipanovich's version of what went on in
the "war room" as told to Jeffrey Toobin for his book (Too Close to Call).

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Feels that at the time of certification-if the recounts had been in Gore's
favor then "I think the Secretary of State's office would have gotten tremendous
pressure from the Bush campaign not to certify," Republicans were "that much
smarter and much better from a political standpoint," Republicans clearly had
more money, Bush political team bussing in protesters, hypocrisy on both sides
regarding many of the issues, Republicans were "maybe more calculating,
strategically," resents argument that Harris "acted purely politically"-"it just
wasn't the case," feels episode was "an exhilarating sort of opportunity to be
involved in such an incredibly important case.
October10, 2002
4! F.. -Open

FEP 35
Tom Feeney
Speaker (Republican) of Florida House of Representatives (2000-2001) during
controversial November 2000 presidential election (sworn in on November 21,
Description of Election Day and Election Night in Tallahassee, role as
Speaker-Designate of the Florida House, not able to officially function as
Speaker for two weeks after election due to not being officially sworn in until
November 21, 2000, perceived a role for the Florida legislature in the post-
election situation as seen in Title 3, Section 5 ("[The legislature] shall deter-
mine the method. Each state shall appoint in such manner as the legislature
thereof may direct a number of electors"), 1877 presidential election contro-
versy, believes that Florida Supreme Court was wrong in extending the dead-
line and that "Congress did not have to accept electors that were chosen in an
election pursuant to rules other than the rules that existed on election day,"
notified GovernorJeb Bush's office that the legislature was looking into its
"potential responsibilities" regarding this post-election process (after
November I7's 7-0 ruling).
More criticism about Florida Supreme Court's ruling saying "court
intends to ignore the statute," feels the court wanted to "keep Gore in play"
and "the count going," thinks court might have ruled differently had it had
more time to deliberate, question about whether or not the legislature could
use a resolution to seat electors, believes a constitutional crisis would have
occurred if election had gone to Congress, tried to gather "the best constitu-
tional minds that we could find" for advice, speaks about famous quote: "It is
the state legislature that determines the method of selection electors. The
question is whether or not the Florida Supreme Court has any role whatsoever.
If they try to interfere with our responsibilities, then we still have to fulfill
them," knew it was a risky statement "but I fully understood that this could be
my career...politically going down the tubes."
Response to argument that the legislature's plenary power is to set the
method but if the vote is disputed then the Florida Supreme Court must inter-
pret whether or not the law has been violated, consideration of a joint session,

Flnrida 9nnn Flprtinn Prnjert
"extraordinary challenge to try to explain" the Florida legislature's "historic
role in selecting electors," nature of the 450,000 emails received, twenty-four
hour bodyguard protection, did not know the U.S. Supreme Court would
become involved but "absolutely thrilled" when it did, Larry Tribe and David
Boies before the U.S. Supreme Court and issue of legislature's authority,
Florida legislature's friend-of-the-court brief, conferring with Lois Frankel
(Florida House Democratic leader) on legislature's legal involvement ("but it's
not like every time we had a new idea we came in and shared it with Lois"),
impressed with both parties' leadership in presenting their respective views
before TV cameras.
Background and purpose ofJoint Legislative Oversight Committee on
Electoral Certification Accuracy and Fairness, makeup of committee, contact
with Governor Jeb Bush but not with Bush campaign team except Ben
Ginsberg, felt vindicated when Baker (after Florida Supreme Court's 4-3
decision) "announced that there was always the legislature that had a responsi-
bility," response to being accused of partisanship, Governor Jeb Bush not
opposing action by the legislature in choosing a slate of Bush electors,
GovernorJeb Bush repeated urging to use "caution," calling a special session
for December 8 and its purpose (to seat "existing" twenty-five electors accord-
ing to Harris's certification of Bush on November 26), issue of "difference of
opinion about exactly when the [right] time to act [was]."
Reasons why Florida Senate did not act early, "would have proceeded the
exact way" even if the Bush v. Gore U.S. Supreme Court 5-4 decision had been
before the Florida House vote, response to criticism about this vote being a
partisan act, Florida Supreme Court was "going to twist and turn and contort
language so long as they thought there was a chance to get the result they want-
ed, which was Vice-President Gore to become President," statement about
imposing term limits on the current Florida Supreme Court justices (I have
felt that this has been an activist court in Florida on some of the key policy
issues"), believes Florida Supreme Court not only changed the law after
Election Day but also "made [new] law to boot, which is two sins in my book."
"Thrilled" by U.S. Supreme Court's referencing Article 2, Title 3 of the
Constitution in its first ruling which he had been relying on since November
17, negates idea that Florida Supreme Court ChiefJustice Charles Wells was
trying to alleviate what he feared was pressure from the legislature to reform the
court, apology for calling Gore a "loser" and saying his concession speech was
"an evil speech," does not agree with the U.S. Supreme Court using the "equal
protection" clause of the Fourteenth Amendment as the "ultimate resolution
to this"-it should have been that "Article 2 empowers the legislature to resolve
these issues," disagrees "that this is just a state issue because it's a federal consti-
tutional principle [of] who selects electors," has "some problems with 'equal
protection' reasoning," "both sides had some hypocritical arguments."
View of Stipanovich ("a hardball player"), Election Reform Act of 2001
("we don't feel compelled to micro-manage [election] supervisors"), issue of
Seminole County (Republicans being granted access to application forms for

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absentee ballots) and HarryJacobs (who brought the lawsuit against that coun-
ty), in favor of the provisional ballot but not in favor of automatic restoration
of felons' rights to vote, how this post-election experience impacted personal
and a professional life ("it might have been Providence that I was in that place
where I could be a leader"), felt it was a constitutional crisis, offended by
remarks made about Harris, Florida Supreme Court "opened up the door to
all sort of potential mischief and fraud when it continued the vote counts,"
view of Civil Rights Commission Report.
"Single biggest terms of voter error, it is whether or not your
Supervisor of Elections was a Democrat or a Republican," supervisors should
be "term-limited," impact of 2000 election on recent 2002 election, reasons
for rise of the Republican Party in Florida during past twenty years.
November 21, 2002
46 Pages-Open

FEP 36
Attorney and volunteer for Florida Democratic Party during controversial
November 2000 presidential election
Plaintiff in Seminole County case (Jacobs v. Seminole County F E .. F
Description of November 7, 2000, serving as an observer at Seminole
County's Supervisor of Elections' office to observe recount, hearing the rumor
about tampering with the request forms for absentee ballots (sorting the iden-
tification numbers by a Republican Party employee), role of Sandra Goard
(Supervisor of Elections), reasons for filing a personal lawsuit, says Goard pre-
sented a cover-up, negative reaction ("very hostile") regarding Goard and local
county commission and other local politicians to Jacobs v. Seminole County Canvassing
Board, intentional disruptions during hearings, controversial way in which the
Republican Party member came into Goard's office to handle the absentee bal-
lot application forms (about 4,700), major legal argument: Goard had violat-
ed two statutes.
Feels that Goard broke not only election law but also public records law-
they are not "mutually exclusive," cites memo from Harris's office-"in the
event that any absentee ballot request did not comply with the provisions set
forth in the statues, they should be invalidated," wanted to consolidate this case
with Bush v. Gore but Gore team said no because of "purposes of public percep-
tion," sees Barry Richard's role as hypocritical in complying with statutes and
yet saying these statutes are just "technicalities" and the will of the people over-
rides strict statutory compliance, reasons behind Gore deciding to not push
this case (his "count every vote" versus invalidating these requests for absentee
ballots), thinks Gore's call should have been count "every legal ballot," Judge
Nikki Clark's reasoning (voters did nothing wrong so count the absentee bal-
Florida Constitution takes "into consideration the will of the people
when it comes to election law"-the U.S. Constitution does not, view of being