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rTle/wli/js 5131 5/7A oho
LUM 249A
Page 1.
INTERVIEWER: Mr. Adolph Dial
INTERVIEWEE: Mr. and Mrs. Archie A. Lockee
September 21, 1971 dib
D: Testing one, two. Testing one, two. Testing one, two. Testing one,
two....Today is September the 21st, 1971, Adolph Dial speaking,
Pembroke State University. I am here at the home of Mr. and Mrs.
A. A. Lockee, Mr. Archie Lockee, and we're here in his living room.
Mr. Lockee, I see that you have on the wall a picture of all your
children. Seem they've been quite successful. Will you tell me a
little about what each one's doing?
L: Well...
D: We'll begin with Eardel over here, your son Eardal.
L: Well, we'll start with the older boy then.
D: All right. Which one's older, Archie?
L: Yes, no, Eardel.
D: Eardel, all right.
L: The oldest boy. He's in the United States Navy now and he's in Washington.
D: In the Pentagon?
L: In the Pentagon in Washington, that's right.
D: What is his rank?
L: He's a captain in the Navy.
D: A captain in the Navy. When did he go in service?
L: '41, I believe. was just '43.
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D: '43, huh. Now has, what's been some of his positions? Do you recall
while in the Navy was he ever head of a destroyer or anything of
this nature?
L: Executive officer on ship and then from that he went to Captain of
the Turner and...
W: The Brow.
L: ...and the Brow.
W: And one more.
L: And then captain of the Wainwright.
D: Captain of the Wainwright.
L: Yes, of the Wainwright.
D: Well, it seems that he's one step away from admiral and I hope that
he'll make it some day. Up to this time we've never produced a
Lumbee admiral in this area, in this, in the area of Pembroke. Now
I see next to him you have a son, what's his name, another son?
L: Archie Stanley. Archie Stanley.
D: It looks like he's a full colonel.
L: Yes, sir.
D: I recognize the bird on his shoulder. He's, how old is he now?
About forty-seven, about forty-seven?
L: Forty-six.
D: I remember those two boys. They're very fine fellows. I didn't see them
too often, only when they came home, but I remember when they were at
the University of South Carolina I believe it was.
L: That's right.
LUM 249A
Page 3. dib
D: Now what is, he's in the army, isn't he?
L: He's in the United States Air Force.
D: Oh, in the United States Air Force.
L: Air Force, yes. They've separated that now from the Army.
D: Was he a pilot or just, or...
L: He's a pilot.
D: ...two sons are still in the service and one has twentywhat?
they both go in the same time?
L: The same year.
D: The same year.
L: About the same year, yes. About the same year.
D: And Mrs. Lockee, how many years do they have in the service? See,
they went in in '43, didn't they?
W: Yes, about almost twenty -eight years.
D: About twenty-eight years. Yes, I know they went in the year I went
in and I joined, one of their friends, Landspan, who was a student
with them, he was in my outfit in the Army that I....Now you have over
there another son.
L: Otto.
DP Otto. I had the privilege of having him in my student teaching class
Wtle, I was at the high school. What is Otto doing now?
e: e ins Piedmont College in Charlotte. He's vice-president of some
department in that college and you'll find down there in that...
D: Oh, yes, he's vice-president of continuing education of Piedmont College.
L: Right. That's right. That's right.
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D: Now those are your three sons and of course he has his masters
degree and I believe Did the other boys attend any
schooling while they were in the military?
W: Archie did.
L: Archie Stanley.
W: Both of them did. Both of them. He got his...
D: Both of them.
W: ... masters degree while he was in.
D: Eardel received his masters degree in the service. Did Archie Stanley
attend, did he receive his masters when...
W: No, he didn't receive his...
L:
D: Well, both of them have the same rank. Maybe one day one of them
will become admiral and the other one a general. Let's hope so.
Now you have three daughters. I see Miss Georgia
L: Georgia.
D: And she has her masters degree also, Miss Georgia does, and Joyce
is doing secretarial work.
W:
D: And Claudette a teacher is she?
W: Yes, she's a teacher.
D: She teaches. Is she doing graduate work?
W: Yes, but I can't tell you anything about it.
D: Yes.
LUM 249A
Page 5. dib
W:
D: Well, it looks like a very successful family of six. Now you are
the father, Mr. Lockee, I mean you are the son of Mr. A. S, Lockee
L: Aaron_
D: Yes, I always knew him as Aaron__Lockee. Now looking at your
family here and thinking of your father, there must have been some
reason for success with fighting against the odds over the years
here in Robeson County. That is you, this is something extraordinary
that just doesn't happen to a family. Now I'd like a comment from
each one of you on what do you really contribute this to. Suppose
you speak to this for a few minutes.
L: What I contribute to the boys success, the two older boys especially,
to, I contribute that just to their grandfather. He was in the ministry.
He was an Indian evangelist.
D: Their grandfather, what was his name?
L: His grandfather, Aaron, Aaron, A. S. Lockee, and he was in the state
of South Carolina and of course when the older boy got over in high
school, lacked about a year of finishing high school he went and lived
with his grandfather and finished high school in Camden, South
Carolina, and after finishing high school in Camden, of course we
kindly adopted him to his grandfather and of course he in turn had
him over to the University of South Carolina and he entered the school
there. And that interested the second boy who was in high school here
in Pembroke and he gets on the train and goes down to Columbia himself
LUM 249A
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and finishes his high school career in Columbia living on the college
campus and everybody thought that while he lived there on the college
campus that he was a college student. But he, he lived in the tenement
with his brother and finished his high school and then went into
this university himself.
D: Mrs. Lockee, what do you consider the success of"your children, too?
Do you, it must have been something in home training and so forth,
too, you know. What kind of philosophy did you practice around your
children?
W: Well, I really wanted...
D: In other words everyday teaching and so forth, what...
W: ...I really wanted a doctor and a lawyer and a preacher and I didn't
get to go to school myself and I just pounded, begged them and
begged them and persuaded and pushed them to go to school even though
times were real hard, but I wanted them to go to school and they
listened and they really wanted to accomplish something and I was
interested in that and I think, two, I asked the Lord to direct in
all, this and to help us that they might go to school and I attribute
everything to what the Lord has done for us including that caused
them to have this ambition and us to have the desire to want them
to accomplish something that would be worthwhile in life.
D: Now you think the desire means a lot, don't you? Now you, you and
your family, your children did well. You were never real wealthy
people, were you?
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W: We were poor people, very poor. I wouldn't like hardly to go
in to how poor we were, but anyhow the Lord supplied our need,
not our want. And then we were very much concerned, that's another
word I think that helped being concerned about them.
D: Did you teach your children to work? You were here on the farm, did
you teach them to work?
W: Everybody had a chore. They know how to work. They know how to
do anything that poor people know how to do in this world.
D: Mr. Lockee, did you, did your children seem to enjoy the farm life
while they were coming up?
L: They were good, they were good plowhands, they were good tobacco
workers, they were good cotton-pickers and they were good hog-raisers,
they were...
W: They were_
L: ...just any, just anything on the farm. They were one hundred percent.
They just worked_
D: Did your boys enjoy hunting? You always enjoyed hunting.
L: Oh, they loved to go hunting in the wintertimes. The older boy
missedischool a while once to go down to Pamico Sound hunting with
his grandfather and I and, but Mr. was his teacher
at that time and he gave him a good scolding about that and he
never, he never left school again to go hunting, but he really did
love to hunt.
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D: Mr. Lockee, what's your age, seventy...
L: I'm seventy-one right now.
D: Now do you recall when your father was born, the date there? He
lived to be eighty what?
L: My father was about eighty-five when he died.
D: Eighty-five when he died. Mr. Locklear, Mr. Lockee, what was your
dad's role in the church in the early years? Was he connected
with the Burnt Swamp Baptist Association?
L: Yes, sir. He was, he was in the Burnt Swamp Association ever since
quite a young man. In other words he was, he come into the associa-
tion right after the establishment of it. Well, I don't think he
helped establish it, but he, he come right, come into it right,
right following the establishment of the association.
D: Yes, he was born around 1872 and the association was established in
1880, so I noticed there that quite a young man he got started and
so forth. Do you recall any of his basic philosophy as far as church
work goes and so forth?
L: Well, he was quite interested in church work and he was a deacon of
his old home church and he was a clerk of the Burnt Swamp Association
at one or two intervals. I don't know how many years. And he was
very much interested in, in the Burnt Swamp Association.
D: Now the Burnt Swamp Association was known as, in other words once
they were members of the Burnt Swamp Association, from that time
were they associated, was this an individual thing or were they
LUM 249A
Page 9. dib
associated with the greater Baptist Association?
L: Just a little individual group of Indian people who had just a few
churches and they organized their churches into this Burnt Swamp
Association and they were just a group to themselves at that time.
D: I wonder what, did you ever hear your dad say that his dad said
what it was like before prior to the time the Burnt Swamp Association
was organized? I wonder how they worshipped or, did you ever hear
anything about that? Mr. Archie, what was your father's education
like in the early days?
L: Oh, you mean, you mean not to say_
D: Yes, where did he attend school?
L: Up at the old Normal, up at the old Normal School at Pace, at Pace.
D: You don't know how many years he attended.
L: I don't remember how many years, but he and, he and Mr. Oxen, Foster
Sampson Oxen went to school together and Mr.
Archie Sampson's wife.
D: A lot of what they picked up I suppose was at home because he seemed
to be a pretty well-educated man from reading the...
L: He studied a lot, he studied a lot at home. He got books and things
and people would donate him books and he'd, he'd find a good book,
an educational book and he'd get and just study it at home by very
little light as far as light was concerned, because they usually built
a fire in a big fireplace and studied right there.
LUM 249A
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D: Now in 1885 when the people were designated the, designated as Croatan
Indians here from the lost colony theory, did you ever hear
your father say how the people felt about this name when it was first
give to them? Did they feel, did they like it all right in the first,
for the first few years when they ?
L: I think they, I think they were proud of it. I think they were proud
of receive, in other words rather than, rather than to go by nothing
I think they were kind of proud of the Croatan Indians.
D: It appears that that was the case.
L: That they were proud of being called Croatan Indians.
D: Now in 1911 we changed our name to Indians of Robeson County and in
1913 to Cherokee. Now being proud of the name 'Croatan' there for
a while, what do you suppose happened? Did you ever hear your father
say anything about how the name was used and why they decided they
ought to change the name and so forth?
L: Well, it seemed that the people who used that name would use it as
4 sang and to our people and the, when they'd refer a lot of times,
and 'Old Croatan So-and-so', and 'Old Croatan So-and-so' and our
people got to where they didn't like that name because of the Croa
and the tan and because we were all brown-skin and dark-skin people
and they, they just got to where they actually didn't like it because
it looked they used it for a slang on our folks and we just got to
where we hated the name, actually hated it.
D: I notice the Burnt Swamp Association used the name 'Croatan' for a
LUM 249A
Page 11. dib
few years and then they dropped it and I suppose by this time the
people were beginning to resent the name. Now your father was very
much involved in the Indian business at the time that we were
out for another name. Is this correct? Cherokee?
L: Yes, yes.
D: I suppose he went to Raleigh some.
L: Yes, and he went up to Cherokee County, too, a whole lot, and brought
a man from Cherokee County down here by the name of Blithe.
D: This is very important.
L: B-l-i-t-h, I might not spell it right, but anyhow his name was Blith.
They brought him down here to talk about the Indian people and to
help to originate among our folks the name 'Cherokee Indian' and of
course that's the way I know my father went
up in the mountains, up in Cherokee County and Mr. Blith come back
with him from up there.
D: Mr. Lockee, what is your feeling on our present name 'Lumbee' and
so forth? How do you think your dad would feel about it if he
were here today?
L: Well, I think that my, my father was a very intelligent man and
the way that the situation and everything has been here before,
I believe that he wouldn't be resentful whatsoever about the situation
and as far as I'm personally concerned I think that it's one of the,
one of the gooder moves as the Indian people of Robeson County could
have done because I've been told as and I'm not an elderly man like
some of the men are who do know, but I've been told that we were located
LUM 249A
Page 12. dib
up and down both sides of Lumhee River and I, I have heard way
back that we were tilling the soil, farming on our own property
and some of our people had slaves. I've been told that, and so
we were, we were located up and down on both sides of Lumbee River
from well, below Lumberton all the way right on up the river towards
above Maxton as far as that's concerned right on. And I think,
I think it's a very, I think it's a very popular move, yes.
D: Well, we are geographically located here and on this river and
the Cherokees can't be mad about it or anyone else, so it works...
L: That's right.
D: ...very good and of course now the name is all over the country and
recognized as such and perhaps we'll always keep it. However, it's
important to recognize that the Indian movement during the time of
the Croatan, Cherokee later, that all of this did a certain amount
of assimilation to the people which later were to work with this
same problem, they would at least have some groundwork and the basis
for working with it and the people would really be wanting, you know,
identity and so forth.
L: Right.
D: The groundwork was very well, very well much in line. Do you recall
any of the old stories of the fellows going away to shop and so forth?
L: Well, they, they used to take their wagons, their covered wagons, and
go up about Rock Fish up this side of Fayetteville and camp and
during the night and leave the next morning and go over into Fayetteville
and shop and buy their grocery and whatever they went after and come
LUM 249A
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back to about Rock Fish that evening late and spend the, a night
and the next day then drive home back in Robeson County over in
around St. Pauls and from St. Pauls in around Lumberton and from
Lumberton in and around Pembroke here. They've done that several
times way back. I've heard the old people tell that, that story.
D: Can you recall any of the Henry Barry Lowery stories about the
death of Tom or anything?
L: Well, yes, I've heard.
D: Do you, yes, do you recall any of the Tom Lowery stories? The
time that he died?
L: I've heard the story and it's supposed to be a true story that
early in the morning Tom Lowery left my grandfather's home and
went going across the Holy Swamp and the Holy Swamp went into
Rat Swamp and in going across that swamp that morning there was
some men behind some trees in the edge of that swamp that shot
and killed Tom Lowery and after he was shot and killed this man
goes to Lumberton to let them know about Tom being killed and another
old man comes up, you want me to call his name I guess, Dave Davis,
a man by the name of Dave Davis come up and in Tom's face
and he was pretty near cold, too cold for the blood hardly to run
out of his face, in order to receive some of the reward from Tom
D: You don't recall whether he received any of it .
L: I don't remember now that he did, whether he did or whether he
LUM 249A
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didn't receive any of the reward, but he did that in order to try to
get some of the reward. I don't know whether he had any of it or
not. But Tom Lowery was buried, Tom Lowery was buried in Lumberton
right where that old cemetery was there at the fire station, right
in back of the fire station in Lumberton. Tom Lowery was buried there.
D: Wonder why they buried him there.
L: And my, and I don't know why they buried him there, but later Tom
was dug up out of there and I don't know where they carried him, but
I've heard people say that saw the remains of him as he was dug up,
said he had the largest bones of any man that they ever saw. They
said that his arm bones and his leg bones were just awful they were
so, so large, that he was undoubtedly a large-framed man as far as
his frame was concerned. I've heard, I've heard that story.
D: What was, what was your dad's feeling on Henry Barry Lowery? Did
he feel he went away or that he was killed? Did you ever hear him
express...
L: My daddy believed he was killed. I never could believe it, but my
daddy believed it.
D: Mrs. Lockee, do you recall any stories at all about Henry Barry, Henry
Barry Lowery?
W: He had a neice that lived up on Bear Swamp and she would come, all the
group would come to her place and some of them would lay down and
some would-stay up and they said, demanded her to cook, pick peas
and cook them and she'd cook them and they'd wash a pot of peas
and she would feed them. But always some of them slept while the
LUM 249A
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others done the watching. And it was interesting to hear her
tell all these stories. I just wish I could remember a lot of them.
D: In other words it appears that the Indian people had to hide
him out and gave them their moral support and food and sometimes
sleeping, I've been told, in shuck barns and so forth.
W: Yes, that would be in the barn where they slept ___ at her place.
L: Shuck beans.
W: With them shuck beans. They didn't know what it was. She said to
go to bed, so they stayed in the woods and they, she said they traveled.
You know they call this road up there the Lowery Road on account of
that was the road where the outlaws traveled and she said, "And he
wasn't mean either." She told a story then about Henry Barry, his
wife, Rhoda, and said there was a ditch built from under their house
where he would go home and try to stay a while with his family and
of course hear the militia, she called it the militia. They would
come and he'd get in this ditch and leave and get out of her way
and say he was all the time running for his life and he was tired
of this. He really got tired of it and it was most pathetic, you
know, to hear her tell this story and she loved him. They were her
people, too. And then she told a story then about Henry Barry, and
this should have come first about Henry Barry, and some of his
relatives looking at them make his parents, his daddy and brother dig...
L: His uncle.
W: His uncle dig a grave and how they made him after he dug it stand there
and they shot him, and then they 14Ad her in, too, that was her end.
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Now you've heard them talk about this. Made them march, the militia
would make them march. They would catch them on the way over there
to, you know, to visit with her grandparents and then she told the
story about two of them were killed down here in Branch
Swamp down below where I was reared. I can't remember their
name but two of, I don't know if that was a brother or, but anyhow
it was two of the...
L: boys.
W: boys that was killed down there and then she told, too,
about the militia and all, knocked their mother's teeth out
and then put them in a...
D: Knocked whose teeth out?
W: This old lady, their mother, and they used to tell this story
about them put them in a smokehouse and putting
light wood around them,this old lady. They was going to burn them
up in there, but I don't know what happened that they didn't do this,
but they put that light wood around the smokehouse. You put them
there, you didn't have places, you know, like we do now, and so
that was, that was sad, too. But maybe I haven't got that in.
D: How do, how do you feel, you look back to then, the stories that
been told about the Lowery gang, you think the Lowery gang did a lot
for us?
L: I think they really did. I think they opened up a channel for us.
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They stood for something and I appreciate them for that and as far
as I'm concerned I'm like somebody said, I think they ought
to have a monument to put up in memory of him.
D: Mrs. Lockee, do you recall any stories ever been told to you as a
child or as an adult about the, about the Lowery gang?
W: Well, we live with this Miss Mozetti and this would be Henry Barry
Lowery's neice and she would tell us stories about what happened
when they were outlaws, that they'd come to her house and they'd
demand her to get, pick peas and cook,a pot of peas for them and
while she was cooking some of them slept in the barns or anywhere
they could lay down and she said in shuck bins and some of them
would watch. They were watching for the militia. And so then she
told us about her making her marks when she was a young girl, her
and her Aunt That was Henry Barry's sister.
Said the militia would make them march, but now I don't know why
they had them marching. I don't know the gist of that, all that
they're being close relatives to the Lowery gang and maybe thought
they'd get some information. The best I can remember seems like
that's what they was picking information about, where to find them
or what they were doing and they treatedipretty rough.
D: Perhaps they were wanting to take them certain places, too, and
maybe that's looking for Henry and so forth and make them march
on the way.
W: Make them march on the way, just drive them and they treat them pretty
LUM 249A
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bad and it caused her to dislike white people a whole lot. She just
didn't like them on account of she had remembered all this, how
they were treated and how they treated her people and she loved her
people just like we do today. And so she had in her
heart against them from being treated so bad and then she told us
about why we had outlaws. I was real young and I was interested
to know why we had outlaws and she said, "Well, they wanted them
to, they wanted to fight in the war." Now what war was this?
D: The Civil War.
W: The Civil War and said Henry Barry and his people wanted to go to
the beach where they were building batteries and they wanted to
work just side by side like everybody else. And wasn't it ?
D: uh huh.
W: ...said that they wanted to fight like other people. But the militia
and all the people wanted them to go down to Wilmington and build
batteries, and they didn't want to do that. They wanted to be like
free people and anyhow since they wouldn't go they'd take -Eb in
the woods and so they, they were real, the white people was real
angry with the Lowery people, so they made Henry Barry's daddy
and his brother dig a grave and Henry Barry was off working, could
see all of this happening. He was a watching and he said," I'll get
even with every one of them that killed my daddy," and said, of course
they stood them up there and shot them backwards in the grave, his
brother, his daddy and his brother. And so that still caused more
built up in the Lowery gang. So...
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D: That was Erlin, was his father and his brother was named William.
W: William, uh huh. I didn't know, you know, I didn't them. I mean
this is just a story that...
D: Yes.
L: Aunt Mazenie told.
W: Aunt Mazenie.
D: Mazenie, what was her last name?
L: Brayboy, Mazenie Brayboy.
D: Mazenie Brayboy.
W: That was her married name.
D: Yes, and she was, but who was she, she was a Lowery before she...?
L: She. was Patrick Lowery's daughter.
W: She was Patrick...
D: She was Patrick Lowery's daughter.
W: Yes.
D: And Patrick was Henry Barry's brother.
W: Brother.
L; Patrick, Patrick.
D: Mr. Archie, do you remember hearing any of the stories about the
death of __. the Lowery boys killed?
L: I heard the story that he left his home on that, on the morning that
he was killed and was coming across the Mossneck Dam and the Lowery
boys were on the side of the dam when he come along and I've heard
LUM 249A
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the word that he quoted, that if they didn't get him this morning
they wouldn't get him. He was going to Mossneck. Mossneck was a
big town in our estimation at that time because there was a big
store there and the train stopped at Mossneck and he was going to
get on the train and, and leave the country that morning. But
as he come across the, the Mossneck Dam the outlaws just shot him,
shot part of his head off in the, in the mill pond. Now that's,
that's the story I've heard and Oakley MacNeil was with them at
the time. They had him under arrest for some reason, some talk
that had been out and I, I heard him say that whenever they killed
Taylor that he was so scared until he seemed to sank into a stump
that he was sitting behind. That's the story I've heard about him
and at that very time, at that very time Henry Barry and his men
would look up at the Mossneck Railroad and see a bunch of the militia
marching up and down, up and down the road looking and watching out
for the outlaws at that time. But they- wasn't afraid of them,
didn't seem to be because they were right down there ready and got
Taylor as he passed and whenever they got Taylor they just went on
down through the swamp.
D: O.K. I asked your wife a minute ago, you know, what her feelings
was. She felt that the Lowery gang made a contribution to the later
of the people here, what is your feeling on it?
L: Well, I tell you what I feel, Mr. Dial, personally, and I've mentioned
it several times in Pembroke and I didn't care who heard it, that
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the Indian people of Robeson County ought to build a monument in
memory of Henry Barry Lowery for his shrewdness and for his genuine
manhood for his people and for himself. He just didn't intend
to let himself down and be lower than anybody else. He was ready
to stand by the side of any man and do the things that was better
for his country. But to lower his dignity and to lower him as a
man, we just ought to, I think the Indian people ought to just build
a monument to his name. That's just how much I think of the whole
situation. I've told the Lowerys that and I've told all of our people
that and I've told it several times in our little town here and I
think I've said it eveniin Lumberton that that's what, that's what
the Indian people ought to do.
D: Yes, I think so, too. Do you recall any more of the Henry Barry
Lowery stories?
L: Well, there were some of his enemies down at the Boyo Store that sits
right next to, side of the Seaboard Railroad near our college campus
now, and Henry and Steve and Tom and I don't know how many of them,
I don't know whether all of them was together that morning or not,
but they began to shoot at them and try to fight them and to arrest
them and I've been told that Steve walked out right in the center of
the old Seaboard Railroad and fired down at this Boyo Store, and there
was a man shooting at them from the Boyo Store leaning up side of the
corner of the Boyo Store house, and the bullets from Steve Lowery's
rifle pit the side of that building and so near to that fellows head
until he just fell out and left there just, just as quick as he
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possibly could. And as a little boy, as a little boy I remember
seeing the bullet holes that Steve Lowery put into that building.
D: How old are you now?
L: I'm seventy-one years old. That was in about 1909 and '10-that
I saw that. That was what they called it the Boyo Store that dit
right there.
D: What was Steve's reputation? Was he one of the good guys of the
Lowery gang or was he supposed to be tough?
L: He was the one that was full of fire. He'd, I've been told that
Henry Barry had to talk to him quite often to hold him down. He
was just actually full of fire and he was just ready to do things
whenever the time come. He was, he was just one of the, he was just
one of the one of the outlaws and, and a fine
fellow. I've understood that he was a mighty fine fellow, but he
was a crack shot. I've been told that there was nobody could beat
him with his rifle. I heard Mr. Ollie Johnson say once that he
saw some pine trees on the other side of his father's, that's
Mr. Colonel Johnson, and Steve Lowery was coming from over out on
Burnt Swamp and was coming walking through the woods on a foot path
and a great big box-face pine four hundred yards from him, he just
stopped right still and just split that box-face, just whipped it open
with bullets out of his rifle. I heard Ollie Johnson say this, that
he and his father remember seeing some of them pine trees over at...
Ollie Johnson's father was Mr. Colonel Johnson they called him.
D: Of course Mr. Colonel lived during the time of the Lowery gang.
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L: Mr. Colonel, yes. Mr. Colonel lived during the time, and they'd
come across, a lot of times they'd come across from Burnt Swamp
and come in through by his place, you know, the Old Dove,
Old Dove Footpath Road, you know, wagon cart-loads and so on.
D: A thought just came to me that I don't hear many stories about the
boys using, travelling by, travelling by horses. It seemed that
they walked most of the time. I supposed this was a certain
amount of protection.
L: I believe that, that that's the reason why they walked, because
they, they had taken these little...of course they could have
travelled, they could have travelled by horseback if, but it would
put them in too much show for the enemy don't you see? And so they
walked so they could take cover in any little branch or any little
woods or anything they passed, they could take cover should trouble
happen or should trouble start or the enemy try to overpower them
or something they could take, they could take the bushes then. And
a horseback would bother, would bother them
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