Citation
Interview with Frank Shore, October 1, 1972

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Title:
Interview with Frank Shore, October 1, 1972
Creator:
Shore, Frank ( Interviewee )
Publication Date:
Language:
English

Subjects

Subjects / Keywords:
Seminole Indians
Seminoles -- Florida
Seminole Oral History Collection ( local )

Notes

Funding:
This text has been transcribed from an audio or video oral history. Digitization was funded by a gift from Caleb J. and Michele B. Grimes.

Record Information

Source Institution:
Samuel Proctor Oral History Program, Department of History, University of Florida
Holding Location:
This interview is part of the 'Seminoles' collection of interviews held by the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program of the Department of History at the University of Florida
Rights Management:
Made available under a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 4.0 International license: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/.
Resource Identifier:
SEM 63 ( SPOHP IDENTIFIER )

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Full Text
INDIAN ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA
In cooperation with The Seminole Tribe of Florida
INTERVIEWEE: Frank Shore
INTERVIEWER: Tom King
DATE: October 1, 1972
DORIS DUKE FOUNDATION


SUMMARY
Through an interpreter, Frank Shore, Brighton Reservation medicine man,
tells about his personal history,
acquisition of his name, training to become a medicine
man, and his marriage. Briefly he mentions the effects
of the hurricanes of 1926 and 1928, the formation of the
Brighton Reservation and the arrival of the Christian missionaries.


INDEX
Employment (farming), 3
Hurricanes (1926 and 1928), 6-7
Marriage, 5-6
Medicine man (training), 3-5
Politics (leadership), 7-8
Religion (Christian missionaries), 8
Reservation (formation), 7
Transcultural contacts, 1-2, 8-9


K: I'd like to ask Frank a little about himself before we start
on the interview. When he was born and where and that kind
of thing, and how he arrived in Brighton.
M: Frank said he was born somewhere in 1902 in Osceola County, that's
in Kissimmee. Then he came over to a place near this side of
Indiantown, west side of Indiantown, and he stayed there during
his early life and he fished and hunted with Josie Billy, that's
when Josie Billy came across Lake Okeechobee from the other side,
around the Everglades way. He used to go hunting with Josie
Billy, that's when they were both young.
K: Did they cross Lake Okeechobee by canoe?
M: Yeah, by canoe.
K: Was it a kind of canoe with a sail on it, or did they paddle
across?
M: They paddled across in a medium-sized canoe.
K: Does he know about when that was?
M: He said that was when he was about twelve years or so.
K: That must have been about 1914, then. Can you ask Frank who
his mother and father were?
M: His daddy's name was Tommy Micco, and he didn't know his
momma's name. He thinks she had a white man's name. He
don't remember. His daddy's name was Tommy Micco.
K: Do you know what clan Frank belongs to?
M: His daddy was an Otter clan and his momma was a Panther clan.
[Belongs to the Panther clan.]
K: I'd like to ask Frank how he got his name, how he got his
anglicized name of Frank Shore and how his father got an
anglicized name of Tommy Micco. Why doesn't Frank go by the
name of Micco instead of Shore?
M: Frank said he was named by a white man, one of the earlier
settlers, Captain Shore--that's why he got the name of


2 h-
a i
Frank Shore. Before that time, before the white man came,
when Indians didn't have no white man's name, they'd just
go by what they..., most of them names were given to them
by the white man and that's how come Frank got a white man's
name, he got named after himself. He's a white man that
lived across Lake Okeechobee. His name was Captain Shore
and he named him after himself, so he got a white man's name
of Frank Shore.
K: Before the white man came, did the Indians take the name of
their father? For instance, would Frank's name be Micco
during the old time?
M: Yeah, I imagine he would be, 'cause they just started that
recently. Before that time, they didn't have any given
name. Just an Indian name. That's all they went by.
Frank said that there used to be a place down by the rail-
road tracks, name of it was Cross-Tucker, that's how Billy
Tucker, that's Frank's brother, they named that place after
him. The other two brothers, Sam Jones and Oscar Hall,
they were given names after other white people, but Charlie
Micco was named after his daddy.
K: Billy, can you ask him why he and his brothers took white
man's names instead of Indian names?
M: Well, he said when he was...Indians, they go through three
phases in the name-calling ceremonies that's including the
Christian name, or should I say white man. They gave an
Indian--four days after he was born--they gave him one, [an
/ Indian name] then at the green corn dance, he takes up another
name. [Later he takes a Christian name.] He's saying, more
or less, Frank Shore is easier to remember--a white man's
name--than an Indian name, that's how he got stuck with it.
What he means is it's more easier a white man's name like
Frank Shore than to call him by his Indian name. Indian people
still call him by his Indian name--but Frank Shore stuck on
him.
K: What is Frank's Indian name?
M: Chen-ji-whot-kee.
K: What does that translate to in English?


3
M: In white man's, more or less stingy or something like that.
That's what it means.
K: Can you ask Frank what his father did for a living? Was he
a hunter or a farmer? Was his father a medicine man before
him or what?
M: He said his father was a farmer, and he says he farmed a lot.
K: Did he have a large farm? Did he have more than enough food
for his family to eat, or was it just for subsistence, just
food to put on the table?
M: He didn't have no big farm, but had a lot of small farms.
They had more than one, so they had plenty of food and
things to eat. Corn, pumpkin, sweet peas, sweet potatoes,
and all, and they always had plenty.
K: Did his father do any hunting for alligators or fur-bearing
animals, so that he could sell his skins?
M: He hunt for gator hides and fishing and things like that.
He was raised hunting gators to sell the hides for money.
K: Does he know where they were sold? What town?
M: Sold around the west coast, about [forty] miles from Labelle.
K: Can you ask Frank when he first started training to become a
medicine man?
M: He started when he was real young. He learned from his
uncle. He said he can't remember. He was real young. He
said he started when he was real young by his uncle, and
he got scratched, and went through the stages learning
to become a medicine man.
K: Who was his uncle?
M: Billy Smith.
K: Can you ask Frank to tell me about this training to become a
medicine man? Can you find out all of the steps that he had
to go through and how old he was before he became a medicine
man.


M: Frank said they started when they were about eighteen to
M: Frank said they started when they were about eighteen to
twenty years old, that's when they first really started
learning to become a medicine man. To learn how to sing
certain songs of the medicine, how to make medicine, you
know, make herbs, know what kind of herbs they had to use
for certain aliments and stuff. They don't teach just one
"person. They take the young guys who are willing to learn.
Get them in a bunch, and try to teach them. He said it
usually takes about eight days to get everything ready.
They said they do it on a yearly basis, whenever they
feel that. They teach them as they grow older. They just
'J/ keep teaching them whatever they want to learn.
K: Any point in their studies when they actually think of
themselves as medicine men rather than just students of
the medicine man craft?
M:: I imagine when they doctor their first person that was
\ sick, and they doctor him until he gets well. They always
(say "when they make a person feel good," but you know what
,I am talking about. By that time, he should know what he's
/doing, and whether he really wants to be a medicine man or
not.
K: Can you ask Frank if a medicine man has any special
privileges or duties within the tribe, or does he just
function as an ordinary tribal citizen and practice
medicine as a sideline?
M: (Frank said to be a medicine man you have to stay with it for
.four years to become what you call a medicine man--four years.
During that time, you learn everything that the medicine man
iis-supposed to have taught you, and you are supposed to have
learned from him. After four years you can go out and do it
on your own. Frank said he's, they call him medicine man,
but he say he's not really a medicine man yet. They are
just, I guess, supposed to be a keeper of the medicine, he
knows how to take care of it. That's more than four years
experience, training. He started when he was real young.
K: Could you ask Frank if women were ever allowed to learn any
medicine, that is, to be a keeper of the medicine, be medicine
women, that kind of thing?
M: Women wasn't taught to be a medicine man.


- ''* 5
K: Could you ask Frank why women were not allowed?
M: Only reason women weren't allowed to learn medicine is they
had more functions than men did. Like raising families,
having babies, that sort of thing.
K: So the men were considered to have more leisure time and be
able to learn?
,, M: They had more time than the ladies did.
K: Can you ask Frank how old he was when he married?
M: He says he was over thirty years old when he was married--
somewhere around 1937.
K: Please ask him what his wife's name was.
M: Her last name was Bowers. Lottie Bowers.
K: Could you please ask Frank to describe the marriage ceremony,
and the method in which the bride was picked? How the
marriage ceremony itself was conducted?
M: :The marriage ceremony...the mothers of both sides have to
agree on the mate. If they both agree, the girl's momma
and the man's momma say they both agree, and the marriage is
i gonna be good. If they don't agree on it, they don't. They
.have more or less a stormy marriage. When they get married,
,. they all move into her, the bride's momma's family, they stay
with her family.
K: Could you ask him how the marriage ceremony is performed?
Is it anything like the white man's Christian ceremony? Just
exactly what happens before you become married? I know you
don't just move in together. There must be some ceremony
acknowledging the act that you are now man and wife, and I'd
like to know what it is and the reason for it.
M: He said they didn't have any such marriage like in church
-ceremonies. In those days, when the both mommas agree, they
move in with each other, and that was it. There was no such
thing as a church wedding, buying rings.


K: I didn't mean that. I meant perhaps there was someone in the
K: I didn't mean that. I meant perhaps there was someone in the
tribe, perhaps the medicine man, who would make a sacred bond
between the two.
M: No, just the mommas decide. It would be perfect for her and
they both agree.
K: Suppose they decide to get divorced? They don't want to live
with each other any longer----Do they just move out, or must
they go through some sort of...?
<M: They more or less move out. The momma, I mean the wife won't
like the husband any more, she tell him when to leave.
K: Ask Frank if he was living in the Brighton area in 1926 when
the bad hurricane hit.
M: He said he was here when the hurricane came. They lived
around the Indian Prairie Canal.
K: Can you ask him to describe for me what the hurricane did to
the Brighton area, and how the Seminoles coped with it?
M: He said there was water everywhere and flooded the whole
place out. He said there was some places you couldn't even
get by because there was waves coming in from the lake. Water
was so high you couldn't even get past it.
K: What did the Seminoles do about it? How did they manage to
live through it?
M: They said they just went on living as they did before, after
the storm passed. There was water all over the place.
K: When the reservation was flooded, where did they live?
M: They lived in their houses [chickee].
K: Weren't the houses flooded?
M: Most of them lived on high ground.
K: Did they get any outside help from the Bureau of Indian Affairs
or the Red Cross or any other organization that might have sent
in supplies?


7
M: They said they didn't get no help from no kind of source. They
just started that recently, you know. They didn't have no such
aid back in those times. That hurricane around 1928, around
the east side of Okeechobee, the Pahokee area, was when they
killed thousands of people around there, after it was over they
went to this grocery store, they drew their canoe up there, and
that's the first time they had aid from the Red Cross. They
picked them up and went to West Palm [Beach] and stayed there
for two days. They got some help and supplies there. They
saw people and bodies, local people who had been drowned. That
was in 1928, two years after the first one. The Red Cross
picked them up from there, that first family, gave them aid.
K: Can you ask Frank if he was here when Brighton became a reservation?
M: He said he had already been living here when this became a reservation.
He used to come here in 1915, and was already here
when it became a reservation.
K: It became a reservation in the late thirties, 1936, I believe.
As I understand it, from what other Seminoles told me, the
Seminoles had quite a bit to do with it becoming a reservation.
They requested the United States government to give them the
land. I want to find out from him if he had anything to do
with that, or if he knows anything about it? If he does, I'd
like for him to tell me about it. Who made the request, who
was responsible for it?
M: When he first came to Brighton, that was only the white man's
land. White people started buying their land in lots and they
kept on buying. They just wanted to set aside land for the
Indians, but all the leaders there were kind of reluctant, afraid
to talk to the white people, so they just kind of shied away
from them. So the white people just set aside 25,000 acres or
something like that. That's what they wanted to talk to them
about, but they'd shy away from the white people.
K: Who were the leaders? You mentioned Billy Stewart. Was that
one of them?
M: Billy Stewart kind of agreed with them and kind of helped them
out. He was the one who spoke up.


j, /'".... 8
K: Can you ask him how Billy Stewart managed to get into a position
of leadership? Was he appointed?
M: One of the older leaders kind of favored Billy because they'd
shy away and the reason he talked Creek--he wanted all the
leaders. He didn't tell me what his function was.
K: He couldn't tell me how a man becomes a leader though?
M: No, well he just wanted an older man; the young ones would just
shy away.
K: Okay, I'm going to leave that for some other time then. Did
you ask Billy when the first Christian missionaries appeared
in the Brighton area? Oh, I'm sorry, Frank.
,...- M: The first missionaries came from Oklahoma around 1909. There
was just a couple.
K: Were they Creek Indians or what?
M: ,Creek Indians, spoke Creek and set up a camp by the Indian camp,
and they lived there. They'd hold community service, and they
kind of spread out around the east side of Lake Okeechobee
around Indiantown. They kept on coming--missionaries from Oklahoma--
a guy there by the name of Smith used to be a missionary
' from Oklahoma, around 1920-1925; baptized there, thirty church
/ members in Big Cypress. And it started growing, gradually.
K: Did he tell you how well received they were? Whether or not
the Indians wanted them to be there?
M: Yeah, he said that some of the Indians wanted them, and some
were reluctant. Well, this story I'm going to relate to you
is about this Indian boy that's adopted by this white family.
These Indian people, they kind of afraid of him 'cause they
fear these white is going to teach the Indian guy. They adopt
it and teach him the white man's way, and then they want to
send him back and try to teach the Indians about the white man's
way. That's why they had a meeting to decide what they wanted
to do, you know. Frank said that was before he was born, way
back early in the 1900's or late 1800's. So the elders had a
meeting about it--a trial meeting, I guess, among the elders.
So they called upon this guy, his name was, he was around from
Indiantown, called upon him.


K: Do you know his name?
M: His name was Old Micco, he called it, from Okeechobee and they
called upon him at this meeting, and he had this to say, he
said, "Let it be, or let it go, because that's the way it is
prophesied; some day it's gonna be like this anyways." He
was old, so they asked for his opinion, and he said let him
go.
K: Some of them wanted to kill him, didn't they?
M: They asked for his opinion first before they decided. He said,
"Let him go." I guess that's the way it's gonna be from now
on--these things in the future. That's the way it's gonna come
out to be. So he went home. He died soon after.
K: Ask Frank if he thinks someone worked medicine on him to make
him die.
M: That's what he said 'cause when he was halfway home going back,
walking, he say he camped for one night and said he saw an owl
around his campfire.
K: An owl?
,M: ) Yeah, that's the way the old people say, when you see an owl,
, something's wrong. It went around his campfire, and he told
his family when he got home about the owl that he saw. He
died, and so they figured somebody had something to do with
J it when he told that story about the owl. They figured some-
body did something to him.


Full Text

PAGE 1

INDIAN ORAL HISTORY PROJECT UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA In cooperation with The Seminole Tribe of Florida INTERVIEWEE: Frank Shore INTERVIEWER: Tom King DATE: October 1, 1972 DORIS DUKE FOUNDATION

PAGE 2

SUMMARY Through an interpreter, Frank Shore, Brighton Reser vation medicine man, tells about his personal history, acquisition of his name, training to become a medicine man, and his marriage. Briefly he mentions the effects of the hurricanes of 1926 and 1928, the formation of the Brighton Reservation and the arrival of the Christian missionaries.

PAGE 3

INDEX Employment (farming), 3 Hurricanes (1926 and 1928), 6-7 Marriage, 5-6 Medicine man (training), 3-5 Politics (leadership), 7-8 Religion (Christian missionaries), 8 Reservation (formation), 7 Transcultural contacts, 1-2, 8-9

PAGE 4

K: I'd like to ask Frank a lit~le about himself before we start on the interview. When he was born and where and that kind of thing, and how he arrived in Brighton. M: Frank said he was born somewhere in 1902 in Osceola County, that's in Kissimmee. Then he came over to a place near this side of Indiantown, west side of Indiantown, and he stayed there during his early life and he fished and hunted with Josie Billy, that's when Josie Billy came across Lake Okeechobee from the other side, around the Everglades way. He used to go hunting with Josie Billy, that's when they were both young. K: Did they cross Lake Okeechobee by canoe? M: Yeah, by canoe. K: Was it a kind of canoe with a sail on it, or did they paddle across? M: They paddled across in a medium-sized canoe. K: Does he know about when that was? M: He said that was when he was about twelve years or so. K: That must have been about 1914, then. Can you ask Frank who his mother and father were? M: His daddy's name was Tommy Micco, and he didn't know his mamma's name. He thinks she had a white man's name. He don't remember. His daddy's name was Tommy Micco. K: Do you know what clan Frank belongs to? M: His daddy was an Otter clan and his momma was a Panther clan. [Belongs to the Panther clan.] K: I'd like to ask Frank how he got his name, how he got his anglicized name of Frank Shore and how his father got an anglicized name of Tommy Micco. Why doesn't Frank go by the name of Micco instead of Shore? M: Frank said he was named by a white man, one of the earlier settlers, Captain Shore--that's why he got the name of

PAGE 5

2 ; ' Frank Shore. Before that time, before the white man came, when Indians didn't have no white man's name, they'd just go by what they , most of them names were given to them by the white man and that's how come Frank got a white man's name, he got named after himself. He's a white man that lived across Lake Okeechobee. His name was Captain Shore and he named him after himself, so he got a white man's name of Frank Shore. K: Before the white man came, did the Indians take the name of their father? For instance, would Frank's name be Micco during the old time? M: Yeah, I imagine he would be, 'cause they just started that recently. Before that time, they didn't have any given name. Just an Indian name. That's all they went by. Frank said that there used to be a place down by the rail road tracks, name of it was Cross-Tucker, that's how Billy Tucker, that's Frank's brother, they named that place after him. The other two brothers, Sam Jones and Oscar Hall, they were given names after other white people, but Charlie Micco was named after his daddy. K: Billy, can you ask him why he and his brothers took white man's names instead of Indian names? M: Well, he said when he was Indians, they go through three phases in the name-calling ceremonies that's including the Christian name, or should I say white man. They gave an Indian--four days after he was born--they gave him one, [an _,/ 1 Indian name] then at the green corn dance, he takes up another name. [Later he takes a Christian name.] He's saying, more ..... or less, Frank Shore is easier to remember--a white man's name--than an Indian name, that's how he got stuck with it. What he means is it's more easier a white man's name like Frank Shore than to call him by his Indian name. Indian people still call him by his Indian name--but Frank Shore stuck on him. K: What is Frank's Indian name? M: Chen-ji-whot-kee. K: What does that translate to in English?

PAGE 6

M: In white man's, more or less stingy or something like that. That's what it means. K: Can you ask Frank what his father did for a living? Was he a hunter or a farmer? Was his father a medicine man before him or what? 3 M: He said his father was a farmer, and he says he farmed a lot. K: Did he have a large farm? Did he have more than enough food for his family to eat, or was it just for subsistence, just food to put on the table? M: He didn't have no big farm, but had a lot of small farms. They had more than one, so they had plenty of food and things to eat. Corn, pumpkin, sweet peas, sweet potatoes, and all, and they always had plenty. K: Did his father do any hunting for alligators or fur-bearing animals, so that he could sell his skins? __ M: He hunt for gator hides and fishing and things like that. ~v~ He was raised hunting gators to sell the hides for money. K: Does he know where they were sold? What town? M: Sold around the west coast, about [forty] miles from Labelle. K: Can you ask Frank when he first started training to become a medicine man? M: He started when he was real young. He learned from his uncle. He said he can't remember. He was real young. He said he started when he was real young by his uncle, and he got scratched, and went through the stages learning to become a medicine man. K: Who was his uncle? M: Billy Smith. K: Can you ask Frank to tell me about this training to become a medicine man? Can you find out all of the steps that he had to go through and how old he was before he became a medicine man.

PAGE 7

M: Frank said they started when they were about eighteen to ( twenty years old, that's when they first really started l learning to become a medicine man. To learn how to sing certain songs of the medicine, how to make medicine, you know, make herbs, know what kind of herbs they had to use for certain aliments and stuff. They don't teach just one ..__person. They take the young guys who are willing to learn. Get them in a bunch, and try to teach them. He said it usually takes about eight days to get everything ready. They said they do it on a yearly basis, whenever they feel that. They teach them as they grow older. They just ,./ keep teaching them whatever they want to learn. K: Any point in their studies when they actually think of themselves as medicine men rather than just students of the medicine man craft? M: /1 imagine when they doctor their first person that was \ sick, and they doctor him until he gets well. They always (say "when they make a person feel good," but you know what ;ram talking about. By that time, he should know what he's / doing, and whether he really wants to be a medicine man or 'not. K: Can you ask Frank if a medicine man has any special privileges or duties within the tribe, or does he just function as an ordinary tribal citizen and practice medicine as a sideline? 4 . M: (Frank said to be a medicine man you have to stay with it for ,four years to become what you call a medicine man--four years. During that time, you learn everything that the medicine man tis. supposed to have taught you, and you are supposed to have learned from him. After four years you can go out and do it on your own. Frank said he's, they call him medicine man, but he say he's not really a medicine man yet. They are just, I guess, supposed to be a keeper of the medicine, he knows how to take care of it. That's more than four years experience, training. He started when he was real young. K: Could you ask Frank if women were ever allowed to learn any medicine, that is, to be a keeper of the medicine, be medicine women, that kind of thing? M: Women wasn't taught to be a medicine man.

PAGE 8

K: Could you ask Frank why women were not allowed? M: Only reason women weren't allowed to learn medicine is they had more functions than men did. Like raising families, having babies, that sort of thing. K: So the men were considered to have more leisure time and be able to learn? ./ M: They had more time than the ladies did. K: Can you ask Frank how old he was when he married? M: He says he was over thirty years old when he was married-somewhere around 1937. K: Please ask him what his wife's name was. M: Her last name was Bowers. Lottie Bowers. 5 K: Could you please ask Frank to describe the marriage ceremony, and the method in which the bride was picked? How the marriage ceremony itself was conducted? M: fThe marriage ceremony the mothers of both sides have to )agree on the mate. If they both agree, the girl's momma / and the man's monnna say they both agree, and the marriage is (__gonna be good. If they don't agree on it, they don't. They ,.have more or less a stormy marriage. When they get married, [ they all move into her, the bride's momma's family, they stay 'with her family. -.. K: Could you ask him how the marriage ceremony is performed? Is it anything like the white man's Christian ceremony? Just exactly what happens before you become married? I know you don't just move in together. There must be some ceremony acknowledging the act that you are now man and wife, and I'd like to know what it is and the reason for it. M: He said they didn't have any such marriage like in church . --~ceremonies. In those days, when the both mommas agree, they , ... / 1 move in with each other, and that was it. There was no such ~-thing as a church wedding , buying rings.

PAGE 9

K: I didn't mean that. I meant perhaps there was someone in the tribe, perhaps the medicine man, who would make a sacred bond between the two. M: No, just the mommas decide. It would be perfect for her and they both agree. K: Suppose they decide to get divorced? They don't want to live with each other any longer-;a••no they just move out, or must they go through some sort of ... ? M: They more or less move out. The momma, I mean the wife won't like the husband any more, she tell him when to leave. K: Ask Frank if he was living in the Brighton area in 1926 when the bad hurricane hit. M: He said he was here when the hurricane came. They lived around the Indian Prairie Canal. K: Can you ask him to describe for me what the hurricane did to the Brighton area, and how the Seminoles coped with it? M: He said there was water everywhere and flooded the whole place out. He said there was some places you couldn't even get by because there was waves coming in from the lake. Water was so high you couldn't even get past it. K: What did the Seminoles do about it? How did they manage to live through it? M: They said they just went on living as they did before, after the storm passed. There was water all over the place. K: When the reservation was flooded, where did they live? M: They lived in their houses [chickee]. K: Weren't the houses flooded? M: Most of them lived on high ground. 6 K: Did they get any outside help from the Bureau of Indian Affairs or the Red Cross or any other organization that might have sent in supplies? --------------------------------------------------~

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----------------------------------------7 M: They said they didn't get no help from no kind of source. They just started that recently, you know. They didn't have no such aid back in those times. That hurricane around 1928, around the east side of Okeechobee, the Pahokee area, was when they killed thousands of people around there, after it was over they went to this grocery store, they drew their canoe up there, and that's the first time they had aid from the Red Cross. They picked them up and went to West Palm [Beach] and stayed there for two days. They got some help and supplies there. They saw people and bodies, local people who had been drowned. That was in 1928, two years after the first one. The Red Cross picked them up from there, that first family, gave them aid. K: Can you ask Frank if he was here when Brighton became a re servation? M: He said he had already been living here when this became a re servation. He used to come here in 1915, and was already here when it became a reservation. K: It became a reservation in the late thirties, 1936, I believe. As I understand it, from what other Seminoles told me, the Seminoles had quite a bit to do with it becoming a reservation. They requested the United States government to give them the land. I want to find out from him if he had anything to do with that, or if he knows anything about it? If he does, I'd like for him to tell me about it. Who made the request, who was responsible for it? M: When he first came to Brighton, that was only the white man's land. White people started buying their land in lots and they kept on buying. They just wanted to set aside land for the Indians, but all the leaders there were kind of reluctant, afraid to talk to the white people, so they just kind of shied away from them. So the white people just set aside 25,000 acres or something like that. That's what they wanted to talk to them about, but they'd shy away from the white people. K: Who were the leaders? You mentioned Billy Stewart. Was that one of them? M: Billy Stewart kind of agreed with them and kind of helped them out. He was the one who spoke up.

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8 K: Can you ask him how Billy Stewart managed to get into a position of leadership? Was he appointed? M: One of the older leaders kind of favored Billy because they'd shy away and the reason he talked Creek--he wanted all the leaders. He didn't tell me what his function was. K: He couldn't tell me how a man becomes a leader though? M: No, well he just wanted an older man; the young ones would just shy away. K: Okay, I'm going to leave that for some other time then. Did you ask Billy when the first Christian missionaries appeared in the Brighton area? Oh, I'm sorry, Frank. ,~_,..,,M: The first missionaries came from Oklahoma around 1909. There was just a couple. K: Were they Creek Indians or what? M: ,-Creek Indians, spoke Creek and set up a camp by the Indian camp, 'and they lived there. They'd hold community service, and they : kind of spread out around the east side of Lake Okeechobee around Indiantown. They kept on coming--missionaries from Okla/homa--a guy there by the name of Smith used to be a missionary r from Oklahoma, around 1920-1925; baptized there, thirty church members in Big Cypress. And it started growing, gradually. K: Did he tell you how well received they were? Whether or not the Indians wanted them to be there? M: Yeah, he said that some of the Indians wanted them, and some were reluctant. Well, this story I'm going to relate to you is aboout this Indian boy that's adopted by this white family. These Indian people, they kind of afraid of him 'cause they fear these white is going to teach the Indian guy. They adopt it and teach him the white man's way, and then they want to send him back and try to teach the Indians about the white man's way. That's why they had a meeting to decide what they wanted to do, you know. Frank said that was before he was born, way back early in the 1900's or late 1800's. So the elders had a meeting about it--a trial meeting, I guess, among the elders. So they called upon this guy, his name was, he was around from Indiantown, called upon him.

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K: Do you know his name? M: His name was Old Micco, he called it, from Okeechobee and they called upon him at this meeting, and he had this to say, he said, "Let it be, or let it go, because that's the way it is prophesied; some day it's gonna be like this anyways." He was old, so they asked for his opinion, and he said let him go. K: Some of them wanted to kill him, didn't they? M: They asked for his opinion first before they decided. He said, "Let him go." I guess that's the way it's gonna be from now on--these things in the future. That's the way it's gonna come out to be. So he went home. He died soon after. K: Ask Frank if he thinks someone worked medicine on him to make him die. M: That's what he said 'cause when he was halfway home going back, walking, he say he camped for one night and said he saw an owl around his campfire. K: An owl? r ~-M: ) Yeah, that's the way the old people say, when you see an owl, t, .. ,, something' s wrong. It went around his campfire, and he told his family when he got home about the owl that he saw. He died, and so they figured somebody had something to do with it when he told that story about the owl. They figured some body did something to him.