Citation
Interview with Jasper Henry, December 3, 1973

Material Information

Title:
Interview with Jasper Henry, December 3, 1973
Creator:
Henry, Jasper ( Interviewee )
Publication Date:
Language:
English

Subjects

Subjects / Keywords:
Mississippi Choctaw Oral History Collection ( local )
Mississippi Choctaw.

Notes

Funding:
This text has been transcribed from an audio or video oral history. Digitization was funded by a gift from Caleb J. and Michele B. Grimes.

Record Information

Source Institution:
Samuel Proctor Oral History Program, Department of History, University of Florida
Holding Location:
This interview is part of the 'Mississippi Choctaw' collection of interviews held by the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program of the Department of History at the University of Florida
Rights Management:
Made available under a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 4.0 International license: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/.
Resource Identifier:
AAA7584 ( NOTIS )
MC 2 ( SPOHPIDENTIFIER )

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Full Text







MISS CHOC 2A

Mr. Jasper Henry (H)
Choctaw Central School

Interviewer: John Mahon (I)
December 3, 1973.

Typed by: P. F. Williams



I: ,'.',^-ni'ty- tx.iye"- dg.,aid we're holding a little trial

interview with Mr. Jasper Henry of the Choctaw tribe, and

this is 4ly afternoon of a beautiful Monday at 3:17 on

-3-Recemsr Mr. Henry and I are sitting on the stage in

the Choctaw Central School...?

H: That's right.

I: ...making this little recording. Mr. Henry, would you just

please tell me...say your name again so you have said it,

andlwhen you were born.
O
H: My name is Jasper Henry, and I was born An August 20, 1917.

I: Were you born in this area?

H: I was born at what they call (Beatfire?) back out in

this part of the country back here. 'Course I think that's

still in 1P Neshoba County. And I have been raised in
f\(} ha-f ^ mother en, th
Neshoba County.O Course my father and mother then, moved

around here and there. And we also moved to Winston County

for a couple of years or soAi -W=Eti-aay-moved back in

Neshoba County. And -i )i

Wel, been IV"' c/i sharecropper...

I: Yeah.

H: ...to the white people. And in my community where I'm

living now, they ., built up a school there in 19-...










MISS CHOC 2A 2



I think it was about 1930. Somewhere along in there, may-

be a little bit later. And, uh, well, I was pretty well

grown-up kid then--somewhere around fourteen years old. That's

when I went to school there. And I finished...well, actually

I don't know whether I finished or not, but I went to sixth

grade-and (..-,_"_ / and they sent me to Cherokee, North

Carolina.

I: How'd that happen?

H: Well, at that time, L&4J fi, A h -l rIcIfiy, Choctaws
ThL-t At W &S -Hc ._
didn't have no higher school than sixth grade.4 Highest

they had was sixth grade, you know. And so if there was

anybody t-iy wanted to go any farther in their education,

well, they had to go to Oklahoma or to Cherokee/at that

time.

I: What you're saying is they were not admitted to the white

schools?

H: That's right, yeah.

I: Now, have you got children in school now?

H: I have one in the school.

I: Where, at this school here?

H: No, he's in a white school up here at Neshoba Central.

I: I see. How'd it happen !140 you elected to put him in that

instead of this school here? J0"

H: Well, what happened was I also WIy,4been around, too, you

see, and I went to Cincinnati, Ohio, and lived there for

about, uh...about ten years. And me andAwife had separated










MISS CHOC 2A 3



and she took my kids and came back home. And when I did come

back, well, I couldn't find no place to make a home for my

children, you know. So they were kind of here and there, most

of them. But now they are over here at

in this area-Pearl River--and one of them that's a boy is with

Grandmother, and he's the one that's going to school at the

Neshoba Central.

I: How's he find i:t in that school? Is it all right with him? Is

he getting along ey?

H: Yeah, I think he's doing fine.

I: He enjoys it and all that?

H: Yeah. Of course, one handicap that he has, which he will have

it all his life...when he was a little boy, about five years old-

no, about four years old, I guess--he had...they found a tumor

back in one of his eyes, you know, and so they had to operate on

him. They took one of his eyes out, you know. And therefore

he's one-eye, and that's...I think that's going be one of the

kind of a handicap that he'll have for all his life.

I: Now, Mr. Henry, in that connection, in the removal of his eye

and all that sickness, what doctors did that work?

H: Uh, well, these were eye doctors and this happened in Cincin-

nati also...

I: In Cincinnati?

H: Yeah. And they had a hospital over there for children--Children's
all
Hospital, they called it, see. And we didn't...when the-little

children gets sick or something like that, why, we usually take

those children to the Children's Hospital, you know, and check- -"










MISS CHOC 2A 4



and things like that. And while we was doing that, that was the

time that they found that. Well, actually, her mother happened

to find or notice something was wrong with him, you know. So

she actually found out that he was blind on one eye. He didn't

notice it, you see. So, well, we kind of looked into it a little

bit. He was -(kind of? V blind, so therefore we had to take

him to the hospital over there. That's when they decided that

he had a tumor. Of course, I don't know what his doctor's name

or anything...

I: No, I wasn't thinking of that, but I was really thinking, you

weren't in an Indian community, were you?

H: No.

I: Well, are these men charging you for this cost?

H: No.

I: Or was it...?

H: They...they're charging me, but this Red--not Red Cross....

I: Blue Cross?

H: Yeah, Blue Cross.

I: You had...you were carrying this type insurance.

H: Yeah, uh-huh, yeah.

I: So that took care of it?

H: Uh-huh, that took care of it...didn't pay the whole thing...

I: Well, you didn't have any problem with medical attention because

you were Indianl

H: No. Ott ,. .










MISS CHOC 2A 5



I: Did they know you were Indian?

H: Yeah. Of course we had an almost full history with us--that

is, not on us, but they had it over there because they had...

the office had to send it over because we was going

over there on the relocation business, see.

I: Well, now, I didn't pick up in the discussion with you before.

What were you doing in Cincinnati?

H: Oh, well, actually, I was trained in horology business...

I: In what?

H: In horology.

I: Horology?

H: Yeah.

I: Telling...predicting from the stars...?

H: No.

I: ...or what is horology?

H: It's, uh...uh...

I: Oh, watches! Watches.

H: Um-hmm, making'em...

I: Where'd you get trained in that?

H: I got that training at Jones County Junior College.

I: Is Jones County Mississippi?

H: Yep. And that's where I got that, and I had two years of it.

(Had a?) good job around here, but you know how the white

people was at that time, you know, and well, I couldn't very
it ...
well get along with them. So, when I first eeap 1s chance

I had, I thought I might do better by going to another place,










MISS CHOC 2A 6



you know, because I'd seen it done before, you know. Like

if I had to go to New York, or maybe...just so it was out of

Mississippi. Well, I could mingle along with the white peo-,

ple. then, see. So I just went over there and I jtastu-se

well, there's a lot of businesses and things like that going

over there, you know, in the watch business. So I decided

to go there. But I come to find out there wasn't nothing

over there -_-_ as a

horology business, you know.

I: So what did you do?

H: So, I '- I'd go around and look around a little bit,

and I finally wound up in a heating business for a while.

Because of the there, I worked with some, uh...

I forgot this, uh...the company that I workedwith, well,

it was just a small little old company. It was for the

handicapped people, you know. I wasn't all han-

dicapped, but they put me in there. Well, the reason why

they had me for handicapped at that time, in 153 I was

operated on for tuberculosis, which I had developed in

1948. And I had that, kind of bothered me all along, so

they had tq operate on me. That was in1153, I think it

was. Since then, every time I mentioned that, everybody's

seemed to beta little curious about it, see.

I: Well, now...

H: Actually, at that time, actually they had my name down as

disabled veteran. Vand like that. So I couldn't get










MISS CHOC 2A 7



no heavy job. All I ____was-easy-, like I said,

watch-making or something like that, just setting around.

I could f+. eT ( ArLuL a little bit of

like that. That was good. And well, I couldn't find

anything that I tried to do in Cincinnati, so therefore, I

wound up in the, just like I said, this little old company

there. Paid fifty cents an hour. I couldn't make no living

on...

I: Fifty cents an hour What year was that, more or less?

H: Oh, let's see fl,,I think it was in '58.

I: Were they paying you the same rate as other people were

getting?

H: Yeah.

I: The going rate was fifty cents an hour?

H: Well, actually, just like I'begin there. They start you

from fifty cents and then go up to a dollar, maybe a dollar

and a half.

I: So how long did you spend around Cincinnati, in all?

R: Oh, I spent around, uh...about, about eleven years.

I: But then you're altogether 4vAtoved from the tribe. You

aren't having anything to do with them, are you, at this

time? Or are you?

H: At this time? Yeah...

I: During that eleven years, I mean.

H: Well, during that eleven years...

I: While you were in Cincinnati.










MISS CHOC 2A 8



H: ...I was just...I didn't have nothing to do with the

tribe or anything, you know.

I: Yeah.

H: I was just out there

I: Um-hmm,

H: Of course, anybody'd been there, _i___ don't think

that they are throwing you out or anything, you know. You

can go as you please. Yoc an stay as long as you please.

And you can always come back.

I: Are you a full-blooded Choctaw?

H: That's right.

I: But you moved...

H: Wait a minute now, wait a minute. I don't think I'm quite

full.

I: But you're mostly....

H: Yeah, mostly Indian.

I: Choctaw.

H: Of course, I have some relatives. I think my mother &feae

half...I think she was a half-Indian.

I: And what, half-white?

H: Uh-huh. Half Indian and half white. And my grandmother, she

was full white. And all the rest of that, why, they're...she

had some mostly white blood in her, you know. Of course, my

daddy, I think he was full-blooded. But somebody told me

that A/I 4 we weren't full blooded. Maybe about 0vxA

e4. ght... f __ you know...









MISS CHOC 2A 9



I: Was Choctaw your first tongue? First language?

H: Yeah.

I: I mean did you grow up as a child speaking Choctaw naturally

first?

H: No, not necessarily. I had both of them.

I: Did you?

H: Yeah. Because, see, the reason for that was that my mother

and sisters and also my father--my father mostly--well, (theytw-

born?) and came up...they can all speak English. Well, not

all that good, but everybody can understand, you know. So

they talked to me in Choctaw, talked to me in English, so I

just gradually picked it up from both sides.. It came up...

I: Are you still a Choctaw-speaker?

H: Huh?

I: Are you still a Choctaw-speaker? You can still talk it?

H: Yeah.

I: Uh-huh.

H: Most of the time, I think I would rather kind of speak in the

Choctaw language.

I: You would.

H: Yeah. Because...

I: Why do you...

K: Well, in certain cases, I would like to speak in English.

Now, for instance, like in some of the Bible interpretations,

you know, *ad h-o : o^ ic... but of course, '- a'clr teach or

anything like that...when someone asks me to try to explain

something like that, well, it seem like...well, I mostly










MISS CHOC 2A 10



study the Bible in the English language, you know. And it

seems like I understand that better than I would my own

native tongue of Bibles (written?) you know.

I: Is the Bible translated into Choctaw?

H: Yes..

I: And you can read Choctaw, can you?

H: Yeah.

I: Can you write it?

H: No, I can't write it. Of course, I could if I just set down

and study and things like that, well, I imagine I could write

and, you know, /-_ to try 7- .

I: Do you talk Choctaw at home. 44*

H: Yes.

I:' .and within your family?

H: Yeah. Well, in fact, like with my sisters and brothers, why,

I usually use both of them.

I: Um-hmm.

H: And they use both of them. We just talk...well, just like,

you know, if you was Choctaw and you speak English to me, well,

I would talk Choctaw back to you, you know. We'd both under-

stand the same thing.

I: You don't have any problem shifting from one of the languages

to the other, huh?

H: No.
I: No problem
I: No problem.










MISS CHOC 2A 11



H: No.

I: Well, now...

H: But that is...that's if...among individuals, see. Of

course, there is some that they can't shift around like

I can.

I: Um-hmm.

H: Of course, a lot of them know the Choctaw language very

good, and they don't know the English too well or some-

thing like that. They just can't, uh...can't speak one...

speak a few works of English and just come right over and

speak Choctaw just like J'o, you know.

I: Yeah.

H: But they have a-it-he problem doing wefh it. -

I: Are your parents, either of them alive?

H: No, not any more.

I: Have you got any old relatives? I mean, an earlier gen-

eration than you?

H: Let's see. I have a few of them that's on my mother's side.

I: Well now, can they speak English?

H: m- aw a.

I: Or do they just.speak Choctaw?

H: Yeah, they're the ones that can...I got one, an uncle, I

think. Now, he can speak mostly English and...well, he can

speak Choctaw pretty good, but not as well as some of these

Choctaws can. Of course, he says he's Choctaw, but I just

call him half-Choctaw, you know.










MISS CHOC 2A 12



I: Um-hmm.

H: He's the one that, uh...well, my grandmother's son, I

think. And my grandfather, he was half-white, so there-

fore he was more of a white fellow than an Indian, you

know. But he always associated with the Indians and the

whites--it just didn't make no difference.

I: Well, now you spent eleven years around Cincinnati, and

moving in the white society.

H: Yeah.

I: And what prompted you to come back to Mississippi, where

at one time they wouldn't even let you in the schools?

H: I don't know why. I guess I just got tired of it, and

I thought probably I would, uh...might be able to do

better at that time.

I: Got a little crackle in this. You can hear it.

H: And so, I just made up my mind.

I: But you were making a living, were you, at the time?

H: Well, it was kind of hard--about the same as I'm doing

now, just as far as just barely making ends meet.

I: What are you working at now?

H: I'm not working anywhere right now.

I: Oh, you're not.

H: No.

I: You're not employed by the tribe or anything.

H: No.











MISS CHOC 2A 13



I: I see. Well, you can...could you still repair watches?

H: Well, if I had the tools, I can. I think I can.

I: You don't have the tools for it?

H: No.

I: Well, listen, you spoke to me about being a veteran.

Did I understand you right? Did you have...

H: Yeah.

I: ...some military service?

H: Um-hmm.

I: When, World War Two?

H: Yeah.

I: Oh, I see. Were Choctaws subject to conscription? Were

you...

H: Well, uh...

I: How'd you get in...what were you in? Army or Navy or...?

H: Army.

I: And how'd you get in it?

H: Well, I was drafted.

I: Oh, the Choctaws were draftable, were they?

H: Well, I guess they were, because I think some of these

Choctaws in Mississippi were drafted. Of course, I got

in by, -A _t I"Cherokee ^^ I was in school

at that time, you know. So...

I: And they were drafted up there, were they?

H: Yeah.










MISS CHOC 2A 14



I: The Cherokee?

H: Well, some were drafted and some of them just volunteered.

I: Yeah.

H: Of course, I guess there's some law on that deal, but

Cherokees were draftable, you know.

I: Well, how about Choctaws? Were they?

H: (Yeah,)I think they was Jiie;ro.,

I: I don't think they ever enforced it against the Seminoles

in Florida.

H: Yeah.

I: I really don't think they did.

H: Uh-huh. Well, a lot of people have said that the Indians

aren't supposed to be drafted or anything like that. If

they want to s__ theyA go in volun-

tarily.

I: Well, how long did you put in in the military service?

H: Well, about seven and a half years.

I: Seven and a half! So, you stayed after the war awhile.

H: Yeah.

I: Uh-huh.

H: Well, I was intending to stay, uha...stay in...

I: And complete a full...

H: Yeah, a full...full term...

I: What happened? You got tuberculosis?

H: Yeah, that's what...

I: Where'd that come from? Did you get it in the service?










MISS CHOC 2A 15



H: Well, uh...well, I picked it up somewhere while I was

in the service. Of course, though, I have an idea where

I picked it up. It was at...I was stationed at

Hospital, Colorado.

I: Oh, yeah.

H: And I was working in the hospital. Because, I just

came from Korea at the time, and I relocated in Colorado.

I was working in the hospital, hospital,

the TB ward. I was working there. So I come in con-

tact with a lot of these TB patients, so I figured that

that's where...that's just about where I picked it up.

I: Were you ever shipped overseas during the war?

H: Yeah.

I: I mean World War Two.

H: Yeah.

I: Where'd you go?

H: I went to Europe.

I: Oh, did you?

H: Yeah. I went to Europe...well, I stayed around England,

I guess about six months. And then

June 6, 1944, I think it was.

I: D-Day?

H: Yeah.

I: Yeah!.

H: I was in that.










MISS CHOC 2A 16



I: Were you?

H: Yeah.

I: What were you, an infantry soldier or what?

H: Field artillery.

I: Oh, you were?

H: Yeah.

I: What kind of cannon?

H: o zrs I 0 ,

I: I see. With an infantry division?

H: Well, I was in the army, army--what you call it?

I: Army artillery?

H: Yeah.

I: So you weren't part of a division.

H: No.

I: But you crossed on D-Day, did you?

H: Yeah.

I: Well, how about that? Any problems getting ashore?

Did you have any...?

H: Well, this field artillery outfit, they didn't have too

much of a problem.
7
I: You got ashore without much of a scrap.

H: Yeah, because, see, this infantry and the other troops

had already went through there and shoved everything out--

you know, just made a way for us to get in there.

And so after we got on the beachhead there, we-weite on in...











MISS CHOC 2A 17



I: What was the beachhead? Do you remember what they called

it?

H: Uh, Normandy beachhead. O1 *

I: It was Normandy. V

H: And well, I think that ____._-----_ the way I

figure, it was on our right at that time.

I: Were you a cannonneer?

H: Yeah.

I: Were you on the guns?

H: Um-hmm. I was working pt Number One,/you know.'

I: Oh, you were? Did you find that interesting?

H: Yeah, I got very interested.

I: I served with the 105-howitzers, too. I was with a tank

outfit. We had...do you know what the M-7 was?

H: Yeah.

I: It was a self-propelled....

H: Yeah.

I: Well, I was in a batallion of those. And you were probably

with the truck-drawn...

H: Yeah, just what you called caa -s

I: Yeah. Well now, have you got a military disability

pension or something?

H: Yeah.

I: You get something for this?

H: Um-hmm, I got one.











MISS CHOC 2A 18



I: I see.

H: Yeah. They started me off at.a-J.uadred percent, but

eventually they cut me down some.

I: What grade did you advance to in the Army?

H: What grade?

I: I mean, were you a corporal, a sergeant, or a...

H: No, I went up...

I: ...a staff sergeant?
Lff
H: I went4to staff sergeant.

I: Did you?

H: Of course, that was on my second hitch when I picked that

up.

I: And do I understand you went to Koreatoo?

H: Yeah.

I: Were you in action, in combat, in Korea?

H: No, I wasn't in the action or anything like that while

in Korea. I just...

I: You were too old by that time, I guess.

H: I was just happy...I was just lucky enough to get out of

that, see.

I: What kind of outfit were you in at that time? Hospital

corps?

H: The 58th Reconnaissance pa- 'r"

I: I see.

H: Yeah, they, uh, and I didn't know why they

had a 58th Reconnaissance they called it. But they orda-4










MISS CHOC 2A 19



two reconnaissance outfits down there while they were

down there, you know. So they called one 56th Recon-

naissance Troop, and one 58th Reconnaissance Troop,

you know. So I was in that 58th Reconnaissance Troop.

Of course, I was in the camp area all the time, so we

had no problem there--of course, we was kind of aware

of it, but nothing happened. So, many guys had deci-

ded to come back, so they asked me if I wanted to come

back. I said to myself, I signed up for stateside

duty on my second hitch, so I decided to just come on

back, you know. So I came back.

I: Well, was there anything special about being an Indian

in the U. S. Army? I mean, did you have any sense of

specially being any different than anybody else?

H: No,

I: Did they call you "chief" or anything?

H: Well, they called me "chief" but they mostly called me

by my name aterank if I had it, you know.

I: Yeah. So it wasn't...you didn't feel in any way set

apart?

H: Well, you know yourself how they usually do, you know,

And altogether, they'll call you anything they want to,

you know.

I: .Yeah.
S And you can call them I wathe same thin
Ho And you can call them I was the same thing.











MISS CHOC 2A 20



They'd call me anything.

I: Well now, you talked a minute ago about studying the

Bible in English. You are a Christian, are you?

H: Yes.

I: And a regular attendant and so on?

H: Yeah.

I: Is this common? I mean, are most of the Choctaws you

know Christians, or have any of them retainedzSaf

whatever the native faith is?

H: Well, some of them seem to retain their own old tradi-

tional ways. And, well, it got where a majority of

them began to understand what Christian is, and began

to understand what benefit they can get from being a

Christian O adelt(f, so I think that the Christian

way of living is in most of them, the Indian peoples.

I: What church do you belong to?

H: The Baptist.

I: Are most of the Choctaws Baptist A.- )



-- .,or is it fair to say that?

H: Most is...well, most of the Choctaw people on this

reservation, I'd say, is Baptists, Baptist people. Of

course we got some Catholics and got some, uh...what

do you call it...?

I: Seventh-Day...uh, no. Mormonse











MISS CHOC 2A 21



H: No, uh...

I: Congregational? Presbyterian? Methodist?

H: Well, yeah. They had some Methodist, but I don't know

whether they s-/4ll o I forget.

remember...

I: Church of Christ.

H: No, not...

I: Not them.

H: Let me see. What's the next church that's Christ?

I: I don't know.

H: Let's see. I know there's one more, but I...

I: Well, do the Choctaws still have any ceremonials once

a year or so that would hark back to the earlier Indian

methods?

H: Lacking a yearly event or anything like that...they don't

much have anything like that nowadays. All except like

during the fair here. That's about the only thing that

they participate in, you know. -- '.7 some of

our old ways ___ dancing and ball games,

things like that.

I: Are there some people that still know these?

H- Yeah.

I: I mean, they know the dances and so on?

H: Yeah.

I: Well, the Creeks had what they called the Green Corn

Dance.











MISS CHOC 2A 22



H: Yeah?

I: Once a year at the ripening of the corn or something.

H: Uh-huh.

I: Did the Choctaws, within your memory, ever have any

ceremony of that kind?

H: No. I don't believe...no, I don't think so. They

might have h-adit, but I don't believe I remember

any such ceremonies like that.

I: Did the Choctaws at some time function in clans?

H: Uh...

I: You know, Wolf Clan, Bear Clan--like this? Have you

ever encountered that?

H: No.

I: Not familiar with that at all. In the Creek and

Seminole cultures, the clans were a factor and they

still are.

H: Yeah?

I: You never had anything of this kind in your background

at all that you recall?

H: No.

I: Well, that's interesting. You, uh...well, one more

little point. Have you ever studied the history of

your people to any degree at all?

H: No. All.except just a few things that some older people

tell me, just a little bit here and there. And of that,











MISS CHOC 2A 23



I couldn't re-...

I: I mean, do you remember...I mean were you ever told by

any of your grandparents or anything, anyone, what

would be called a Choctaw legend? A story of Choctaw

origins, or anything like this?

H: No.

I: As a boy, did anybody ever tell you this kind of thing?

H: No, never have.

I: Not familiar with them?

H: No.

I: I'm not asking you to embarrass you, but just...

H: Yeah, I know!

I: ...I mean, do you happen to know the names of any

very famous Choctaw chiefs in the days when the tribe

was big and powerful?

H: Let's see. Uh...

I: I just...
htsh!i rv%&fn(^h,
H: Oh! ..... .

I: *eihmafao, yeah.

H: He was the one that was...the outstanding chief.

I: That's right. Do you know anything about him except

his name?

H: No, but...

I: Is, is...

H: ...the only thing I know is that he was trying to lead

hisAin the right way, that I understood. I don't know,











MISS CHOC 2A 24



but they were such a small group...,

I: Well, there must have been a pretty good-sized num-

ber of Choctaws back in the early days. I don't know

what the population was. But have you ever visited

any of the Choctaws in Oklahoma? There's a very sub-

stantial group up there, too, you know. Have you ever

been to the Oklahoma reservations?

H: No, never have.

I: Never have.

H: Well, a lot of people have been a'going back and forth

to Oklahoma...

I: They have?

H: ...but, uh...but, well, you know, it seems like I'm just

an unlucky guy about going places like that, you know.

I: Well, you've been around the world pretty much, though,

having been in the Army.

H: Yes, yeah.

I: Did you ever get to the west coast of the United States?

Have you ever been to California?

H: Just a little while.

I: But you've been out there.

H: Yeah.

I: So you've been pretty much over the United States.

H: Yeah. Well, _, I was stationed out there

at the state of Vermont for a while. vou know.










MISS CHOC 2A. 25



I: Yeah?

H: Just went in the service, and the time was, uh...I

think it was December 7 I was over there--when this

Pearl Harbor happened, you know?

I: Oh, is that so?

H: Yeah, I was in Vermont. And well, I've been around

in Washington State, on through there. And

landed in San Francisco, that's where I landed when

I come back, you know.

I: Have you ever been in my state of Florida?

H: No. That's one of the states I haven't been in.

I: One of the gentlemen out there had gone down there

and picked vegetables/for pay, you know. They

have a big crop every year. I forget which one it

was, but he'd been down there, seasonally, and picked

vegetables and then come back up...

H: Yeah, that's...

I: I forget which one of them it was.

H: It's Charlie Denson, I think. He's the one that was

telling you...

I: Who?

H: Charlie Denson.

I: Yeah, I believe it was, too.

H: That's the one.

I: I forgot to ask you, which one of these communities do











MISS CHOC 2A 26



you come from around here?

H: Community?

I: Well, the...

H: ""^ rS ^ B- ^kiti:^

I: that's where you're from.

H: Yeah.

I: I see. Well, it'll save you the drive up from there

tomorrow because it won't be necessary to come back.

H: No.

I: Well, I think it's getting time for you tosgo. And

so, I'm gonna shut this...





END OF TAPE.





Full Text

PAGE 1

MISS CHOC 2A Mr. Jasper Henry (H) Choctfiw Central School Interviewer: John Mahon (I) December 3, 1973. Typed by: P. F. Williams interview with Mr. Jasper Henry of the Choctaw tribe, and _/-:l , , this is ~iii~ afternoon of a beautiful Monday at 3:17 on , f)._ . ~;~ Mr. Henry and I are sitting on the stage in ? the Choctaw Central School H: That's right. I: making this little recording. Mr. Henry, would you just please tell me say your name again so you have said it, ,,\,\J/(. andAwhen you were born. 0 H: My name is Jasper Henry, and I was born An August 20, 1917. I: Were you born in this area? H: I was born at what they call (Beatfire?_)_ back out in this part of the country back here. still in~ Neshoba County. And I O rL 1 hct.cl~ Neshoba County. f CourseAmy father 'Course I think that's have been raised in and mother Aben, moved around here and there. And we also moved to Winston County b,.-:-:; 1~C/.:. /i r..y for a couple of years or soA --W.e;:;:fi-n~moved back in wh;{e,,,,we...LH-.e.~, .,, \,,\)11 :(e. I v.Ja5 lillle., Neshoba County. And J4..,:J?~ --------,, We"'-~been /,'v,'iic, rf• h 'V;t::' ___ 5 _~-'--.: s arecropper I: Yeah. H: to the white people. And in my community where I'm ,, !.\. \l,. '. living now, they c:.~ :,.,, ,. . built _ up _ a school there in 19l <..__

PAGE 2

MISS CHOC 2A 2 I think it was about 1930. Somewhere along in there, maybe a little bit later. And, uh, well, I was pretty well grown-up kid then--somewhere around fourteen years old. That's when I went to school there. And I finished well, actually I don't know whether I finished or not, but I went to sixth Carolina. I: How'd that happen? H: Well, at that time, w,fli,,,,_ -Ihe v/c, . ;../ ty, Choctaws . Tu rd:. w t)._$ .J t.\.::. f--H, . didn't have no higher school than sixth grade., Highest II j.,c.J they had was sixth grade, you know. And so if there was anybody ~wanted to go any farther in their education, v ~ well, they had to go to Oklahoma or to Cherokee/ at that time. I: What you're saying is they were not admitted to the white schools? H: That's right, yeah. I: Now, have you got children in school now? H: I have one in the school. I: Where? at this school here? H: No, he's in a white school up here at Neshoba Central. I: I see. How'd it happen tf~l you elected to put him in that H: instead of this school here? ,H 1 , r.\ , Well, what happened wasf 1 I also too, you see, and I went to Cincinnati, Ohio, and lived there for -wr about, uh •.. about ten years. And me andAwife had separated

PAGE 3

MISS CHOC 2A 3 and she took my kids and came back home. And when I did come back, well, I couldn't find no place to make a home for my children, you know. So they were kind of here and there, most of them. But now they are over here at ----------in this area-Pearl River--and one of them that's a boy is with ,/ Grandmother, and he's the one that's going to school at the Neshoba Central. I: How's he find i : t in that school? Is it all right with him'? Is he getting along H: Yeah, I think he's doing fine. I: He enjoys it and all that? H: Yeah. Of course, one handicap that he has, which he will have it all his life when he was a little boy, about five years old no, about our years old, I guess--he had they found a tumor back in one of his eyes, you know, and so they h~d to operate on him. They took one of his eyes out, you know. And therefore he's one-eye, and that's ! think that's going be one of the kind of a handicap that he'll have for all his life. I: Now, Mr. Henry, in that connection, in the removal of his eye and all that sickness, what doctors did that work? H: Uh, well, these were eye doctors and this happened in Cincin nati also I: In Cincinnati? H: Yeah. And they had a hospital Hospital, they called it, see. over there for children--Children's ttny And we didn' t when , thelittle Ii children gets sick or something like that, why, we usually take those children to the Children's Hospital, you know, and check.Uf .

PAGE 4

... , _ -----------MISS CHOC 2A 4 and things like that. And while we was doing that:, t:hat: was t:he -, MX " time that they found tmrt. Well, actually, / h~r -, mother happened to find or notice something was wrong with him . , you know. So she actually found out that he was blind on one eye. He didn't notice it, you see. So, well, we kind of looked into it a little bit. He was ,(i~d of~ blind, so therefore we had to take him to the hospital over there. That's when they decided that he had a tumor. Of course, I don't know what his doctor's name or anything I: No, I wasn't thinking of that, but I was really thinking, you weren't in an Indian community, were you? H: No. I: Well, are these men charging you for this cost? H: No. I: Or was it ? H: They they' re charging me, but this Red--not Red Cross I: Blue Cross? H: Yeah, Blue Cross. I: You had you were carrying this type insurance. 11: Yeah, uh-huh, yeah. I: So that took care of it? H: Uh-huh, that took care of it ... didn't pay the whole thing.I: Well, you didn't have any problem with medical attention because you were Indian f

PAGE 5

MISS CHOC 2A 5 I: Did they know you were Indian? H: Yeah. Of course we had an almost full history with us--that is, not on us, but they had it over there because they had the office . had to send it over because we was going ----over there on the relocation business, see. I: Well, now, I didn't pick up in the discussion with you before. What were you doing in Cincinnati? H: Oh, well, actually, I was trained in horology business I: In what? H: In horology. I: Horology? H: Yeah. I: Telling predicting from the stars ? H: No. I: or what is horology? H: It's, uh uh I: Oh, watches! Watches. H: Um-hmm, making' em I: Where'd you get trained in that? H: I got that training at Jones County Junior College. I: Is Jones County Mississippi? H: Yep. And that's where I got that, and I had two years of it. _ _.(_H_a_d_ _a_?._)_ good job around here, but you know how the white people was at that time, you know, and well, I couldn't very it . , #. well get along with t~. So, when I first$~~~~ chance I had, I thought I might do better by going to another place,

PAGE 6

MISS CHOC 2A 6 you know, because I'd seen it done before, you know. Like if I had to go to New York, or maybe just so it was out of Mississippi. Well, I could mingle along with the white peo: ple . then, see. So I just went over there and I Jus:t oe:W:;U >t.
PAGE 7

MISS CHOC 2A 7 I: watch-making or something like that, just setting around. I could f, "'K e ..V ~r.._, a little bit of -----------------like that. That was good. And well, I couldn't find --anything that I tried to do in Cincinnati, so therefore, I wound up in the, just like I said, this little old company there. Paid fifty cents an hour. I couldn't make no living on , '? Fifty cents an hour. What year was that, more or less? H: Oh, let's see~;,., I think it was in '58. I: Were they paying you the same rate as other people were getting? H: Yeah. I: The going rate was fifty cents an hour? H: ( ' Well, actually, just like I begin } there. They start you from fifty cents and then go up to a dollar, maybe a dollar and a half. I: So how long did you spend around Cincinnati, in all? H: Oh, I spent around, uh about, about eleven years. Q I: But then you~re altogether ~oved from the tribe. You H: aren't having anything to do with them, are you, at this time? Or are you? At this time? Yeah I: During that eleven years, I mean. H: Well, during that eleven years I: While you were in Cincinnati.

PAGE 8

MISS . CHOC 2A 8 H: I was just I didn't have nothing to do with the tribe or anything, you know. I: Yeah. H: I was just out there-__ _ I: Um-hrrnn. H: Of course, anybody'd been there, don't think that they are throwing you out or anything, you know. You can go as you please. Y_an stay as long as you please. And you can always come back, I: Are you a full-blooded Choctaw? H: That's right. I: But you moved H: Wait a minute now, wait a minute. I don't think I'm quite I: H: I: H: full. 1 But you're mostly Yeah, mostly Indian. Choctaw. Of course, I have some relatives. I think my mother~--:, half I think she was a half-Indian. I: And what, half-white? H: Uh-huh. Half Indian and half white. And my grandmother, she was full white. And all the rest of that, why, they' re •.. . she had some mostly white blood in her, you know. Of course, my daddy, I think he was full-blooded. 0ne.. But someb-0-dy told me tha t 1 , _1 V\ __ A, )1,tfr,,\ finQ ----~--_________ , you know .•. we weren't full blooded. Maybe about

PAGE 9

---------------------------------------MISS CHOC 2A 9 I: Was Choctaw your first tongue? FiTst _ language? H: Yeah. I: I mean did you grow up as a child speaking Choctaw naturally first? H: No, not necessarily. I had both of them. I: Did you? H: Yeah. Because, see, the reason for that was that my mother and sisters and also my father--my father mostly--well, (they~ born?) and came up they can all speak English. Well, not all that good, but everybody can understand, yoU: know.. So . they talked to me in Choctaw, talked to me in English, so I just gradually picked it up from both sides . It came up I: Are you still a Choctaw-speaker? H: Huh? I: Are you still a Choctaw-speaker? You can still talk it? H: Yeah. I: Ulr-huh. H: Most of the time, I think I would rather kind of speak in the Choctaw language. I: You would. H: Yeah. Because l:: Why do you H.: Well, in certain cases, I would like to speak in English. Now, for instance, like in some of the Bible interpretations, ~" J\~',! . 5 c.1,..,,_,..,)__ you know, &he sci ' rviee ... but of course, J cl.-.: a rteach or anything like that when someone asks me to try to explain something like that, well, it seem like well, I mostly ---~ _,

PAGE 10

MlSS CiiOC 2A 10 study the Bible in the English language, you know. And it seems like I understand that better than I would my own native tongue of Bibles (written?) , you know. I: Is the Bible translated into Choctaw? I: And you can read Choctaw, can you? H: Yeah. I: Can you write it? H: No, I can't write it. Of course, I could if I just set down I: H: I: . H: and study and things like that, well, I imagine I could write and,. you know, J Iv_ to try 'Ztivl,v flt-a:C '? ,:;ii'.; Do you talk Choctaw at home.~~ Yes. ~_;nd within your family? -Yeah. Well, in fact, like with my sisters and brothers, why, I usually use both of them. I: Um-hmm. H: And they use both of them. We just talk well, just . like, you know, if you was Choctaw and you speak English to me, well, I would talk Choctaw back to you, you know. We'd both under stand the same thing. I: You don't have any problem shifting from one of the languages to the other, huh? H: No. I: 7 No problem.

PAGE 11

MISS CHOC 2A H: No. I: Well, now H: But that is ..• that's if •.. among individuals, see. Of course, there is some that they can't shift around like I can. I: Um-hmm. 11 H: Of course, a lot of them know the Choctaw language very good, and they don't know the English too well or some thing like that. . They just can't, uh can 1 t speak one speak a few works speak Choctaw just of English and just come -tlta:c, like .l,!~ you know. right over and I: Yeah. 7/i_v.tl H: But they have a-:a~ problem doing it.~ I: Are your parents, either of them alive? H: No, not any more. I: Have you got any old relatives? I mean, an earlier gen eration than you? H: Let's see. I have a few of them that's on my mother's side. I: H: I: H: Well now, can they speak English? '/. ... es~ l{.~ ~fil!lmoti1,GJ] Or do they just.speak Choctaw? Yeah, they're the ones that can I got one, an uncle, I think. Now, he can speak mostly English and well, he can speak Choctaw pretty good, but not as well as some of these Choctaws can. Of course, he says he's Choctaw, but I just call him half-Choctaw, you know.

PAGE 12

MISS CHOC 2A 12 I: Um-hmm. H: He's the one that, uh well, my grandmother's.son, I think. And my grandfather, he was half-white, so there fore he was more of a white fellow than an Indian, you know. But he always associated with the Indians and the whites--it just didn't make no difference. I: Well, now you spent eleven years around Cincinnati, and moving in the white society. H: Yeah. I: Arid wrhat prompted you to come bkck to Mississippi, where at one time . they wo-u'idn 't even let you in the schools? H: I don't know why. I guess I just got tired of it, and I thought probably I would, uh might be able to do better at that time. I: Got a little crackle in this. You can hear it. H: And so, I just made up my mind. I: But you were making a living, we're you, at the time? H: Well, it was kind of h?rd--about the same as I'm doing now, just as far as just barely making ends meet. I: H: I: H: I: H: Wh:=it are you working at now? I'm not working anywhere right now. Oh, you' re not. No. .? You 're not employed by the tribe or anytlnng. No.

PAGE 13

MISS CHOC 2A 13 I: I see. Well, you can ... could you still repair watches? H: Well, if I had the tools, I can. I think I can. I: You don't have the tools for it? H: No. I: Well, listen, you spoke to me about being a veteran. Did I understand you right? Did you have H: Yeah. I: some military service? H: Um-hmm. I: When, World War Two? H: Yeah. I: Oh, I see. Were Choctaws subject to conscription? Were you H: Well, uh I: How'd you get in what were you in? Army or Navy or ? H: Army. I: And how'd you get in it? H: Well, I was drafted. I: Oh, the Choctaws were draftable, were they? H: Well, I guess they were, because I think some of these Choctaws in Mississippi were drafted. Of course, I got in b~ r/v.,;a.:(--t -pt\J.. Cherokee I was in school at that time, you know. So I: And they were drafted up there, were they? H: Yeah.

PAGE 14

MISS CHOC 2A 14 I: The Cherokee? H: Well, some were drafted and some of them just volunteered. I: Yeah. H: Of course, I guess there's some law on that deal, but Cherokees were draftable, you know. I: Well, how about Choctaws? Were they? <" H: (Ye'ah') I think they was--tir..2.__ (J.1trLC. I: I don't think they ever enforced it against the Seminoles in Florida. H: Yeah. I: I really don't think they did. H: Uh-huh. Well, a lot of people have said that the Indians aren't supposed to be drafted or anything like that. If they want to qf) J , they~f-in volun?/ tarily. I: Well, how long did you put in in the military service? H: Well, about seven and a half years. I: Seven and a half! So, you stayed after the waj a....,while. H: Yeah. I: Uh-huh. H: Well, I was intending to stay, uh stay in I: And complete a full H: Yeah, a full full term I: What happened? You got tuberculosis? H: Yeah, that's what I: Where'd that come from? Did you get it in the service?

PAGE 15

MISS CHOC 2A 15 H: Well, uh •.. well, I picked it up somewhere while I was in the service. Of course, though, I have an idea where I picked it up. It was at I was stationed at ------------Hospital, Colorado. I: Oh, yeah. H: And I was working in the hospital. Because, I just came from Korea at the time,-and I relocated in Colorado. I was working in the hospital, hospital, the TB ward. I was working there. So I come in con tact with a lot of these TB patients, so I figured that that's where that's just about where I picked it up. I: Were you ever shipped overseas during the war? H: Yeah. I: I mean World War Two. H: Yeah. I: Where'd you go? H: I i,1ent to Europe. I: Oh, did you? H: Yeah. I went to Europe ,well, I stayed around England, I guess about June 6, 1944, I: D-Day? H: Yeah. I: Yeah!. H: I was in that. six months. And I think it was. then I'. / _ _.,..._, .. :(!~ !;: z : ,. ~ . :_ g;..J

PAGE 16

MISS CHOC 2A 16 I: Were you? H: Yeah. I: What were you, an infantry soldier or what? H: Field artillery. I: Oh, you were? H: Yeah. I: What kind of cannon? H: J>~tl~ze-~ / 0 5 n-z n,-, )1,,0-tA.1~~(!/i,/J I: I see. With an infantry division? H: Well, I was in the anny, army--what you call it? I: Army artillery? H: Yeah. I: So you weren't part of a division. H: No. I: But you crossed on D-Day, did you? H: Yeah. I: Well, how about that? Any problems getting ashore? Did you have any .•. ? H: Well, this field artillery outfit, they didn't have too much of a problem. I: You got ashore without much of a scrap? H: Yeah, because, see, this infantry and the other troops had already went through there and shoved everything outyou know, just made a way for us "::z,, 4 to get in there. r '? r r. VJtf'~ci-.-Ccf.-. And so after we got on the beachhead there, we ... weri-e on in

PAGE 17

MISS CHOC 2A 17 I: What was the beachhead? Do you remember what they called it? H: I: H: Uh, Normandy beachhead. It was Normandy. And well, I think that figure, it was on our right at that time. I: Were you a cannonneer? H: Yeah. I: , Were you on the guns? H: Um-hmm. ~s ' \ I was working Pf Number One,(you know. ; I: Oh, you were? Did you find that interesting? H: Yeah, I got very interested. I: I served with the 105-howitzers, too. I was with a tank outfit. We had do you know what the M-7 was? H: Yeah. I: It was a self-propelled H: Yeah. I: Well, I was in a ba\a11~on of those. And you were probably with the truck-drawn ca . rr-1 tt e , H: Yeah, just what you called ~""" a I: Yeah. Well now, have you got a military disability pension or something? H: Yeah. I: You get something for this? H: Um-hmm, I got one.

PAGE 18

MISS CHOC 2A 18 I: I see. I tJ D H: Yeah. They started me off at....a. bundr6ld percent, but eventually they cut me down some. I: What grade did you advance to in the Army? H: What grade? I:I mean, were you a corporal, a sergeant, or a H: No, I went up I: a staff sergeant? H: u.p I went/l to staff sergeant. I: Did you? H: Of course, that was on my second hitch when I picked that up. I: And do I understand you went to KoreaJtoo? H: Yeah. I: Were you in action, in combat, in Korea? H: No, I wasn't in the action or anything like that while in Korea. I just I: You were too old by that time, I guess. H: I was just happy I was just lucky enough to get out of that, . see . I: What :kind of outfit were you in at that time? Hospital corps? H: The 58th Reconnaissance Jl". , o-i-~ p .. I: I see. H: Yeah, they, uh, ______ , and I didn't know why they, . a/' br, [ t cl.. had aA58th/Reconnaissance, they called it. But theyi\o~o~ ,_,,

PAGE 19

MISS CHOC 2A 19 two reconnaissance outfits down there while they were down there, you know. So they called one 56th Recon naissance Troop, and one 58th Reconnaissance Troop, you know. So I was in that 58th Reconnaissance Troop. Of course, I was in the camp area all the time, so we had no problem there--o:f course, we was kind of aware of it, but nothing happened. So, many guys had deci ded to come back, so they asked me if I wanted to come back. I said to myself, I signed up for stateside duty on my second hitch, so I decided to just come on back, you know. So I came back. I: Well, was there anything sp~cial about being an Indian in the U.S. Army? I mean, did , you have any sense of specially being any different than anybody else? ' H: No. I: Did they call you "~hie" or anything? H: Well, they called me 11 ~hief" but they mostly called me by my name~rank if I had it, you know. I: Yeah. So it wasn't •.. you didn't feel in any way set apart? H: Well, you know yourself . how they usually do, you know. and altogether, they'll call you anything they want to~ :::-you know. I: Yeah. sv1--st' H: And you can call them ---I was\ the same thing.

PAGE 20

' ---, ' '7 ... . , . . ' MISS CHOC 2A They'd call me anything, I: Well now, you talked a minute ago about studying the Bible in . English. You are a Christian, are you? H: Yes. I: And a regular attendant and so on? H: Yeah. I: Is this connnon? I mean, are most of the Choctaws you know Christians, or have any of them retained~ whatever the native faith is? 20 H: Well, some of them seem to retain their own old tradi tional ways. And, well, it got where a majority of them began to understand what Christian is, and began to understand what benefit they can get from being a Christian 0-M.d eu,(_t'(,"tt ,c:( ; _ so I think that the Christian way of living is in most of them, the Indian peoples. I: What church do you belong to? H: The Baptist. I: Are most of the Choctaws Baptist; 4--~-:?...--.-2:::::::::.-----~ -~; is it fair to say that? .,/ \ . ~ ! H: {, U,h ;;p,Most is well, most of the Choctaw people on this ' reservation, I'd say, is Baptists, Baptist people. Of course we got some Catholics and got some, uh what do you call it ? I: Seventh-Day uh, no. Mormons f

PAGE 21

MISS CHOC 2A 21 H: No, uh I: Congregational? Presbyterian? Methodist? H: Well, yeah. They had some Methodist, but I don't know whether they s+, I I co + ----~-------I forget. remember I: Church of Christ. H: No, not I: Not them. H: Let me see. What's the next church that's Christ? I: I don't know. H: Let's see. I know there's one more, but I I: Well, do the Choctaws still have any ceremonials once a year or so tla t would hark back to the earlier Indian methods? H: Lacking a yearly event or anything like that they don't much have anything like that nowadays. All except like during the fair .h~re~ That's about the only thing that they participate in, you know. _ -,,-~-,,;some of ------our old ways of dancing and ball games, ---------things like that. I: Are there some people that still know these? H Yeah. I: I mean, they know . the dances and so on? H: Yeah. I: Well, the Creeks had what they called the Green Corn Dance.

PAGE 22

MISS CHOC 2A H: Yeah? I: Once a year at the ripening of the corn or something. H: Uh-huh. I: Did the Choctaws, within your memory, ever have any ceremony of that kind? H: No. I don't believe ..• no, I don't think so. They might have ~. but I don't believe I remember . any such ceremonies like that. I: Did the Choctaws at some time function in clans? H: Uh I: You know, Wolf Clan, Bear Clan--like this? Have you ever encountered that? H: No. I: Not familiar with that at all. In the Creek and Seminole cultures, the clans were a factor and they still are. H: Yeah? 22 I: You never had anything of this kind in your background at all that you recall? H: No. I: Well, that's interesting. You, uh well, one more little point. Have you ever studied the history of your people to any degree at all? H: No. All.except just a few things that some older people tell me, just a little bit here and there. And of that,

PAGE 23

MISS CHOC 2A 23 I couldn't reI: I mean, do you remember I mean were you ever told by any of your grandparents or anything, anyone, what would be called a Choctaw legend? A story of Choctaw origins, or anything like this? H: No. I: As a boy, did anybody ever tell you this kind of thing? H: No, never have. I: Not familiar with them? H: No. I: I'm not asking you to embarrass you, but just H: Yeah, I know! I: .•. I mean, do you happen to know the names of any very famous Choctaw chiefs in the days when the tribe was big and powerful? H: Let's see. Uh I: H: I: H: I just ..• 0 h ! , ~t, t\, fC<_, 0v A p \AS hi M o;t GJ, 0.. PuekmetQsa, yeah. He was the one that was the outstanding chief. I: That's right. Do you know anything about him except his name? H: No, but I: Is, is H: the only thing I know is that he was trying to lead .~,_,&., hisAin the right way, that I understood. I don't know,

PAGE 24

MISS CHOC 2A 24 but they were such a small group I: Well, there must have been a pretty good-sized num ber of Choctaws back in the early days. I don't know what the population was. But have you ever visited any of the Choctaws in Oklahoma? There's a very sub stantial group up the re, too, you know. Have you ever been to the Oklahoma reservations? H: No, never have. I: Never have. H: Well, a lot of people have been a'going back and forth to Oklahoma I: They have? H: but, uh but, well, you ' know, it seems like -:: I'm just an unlucky guy about going places like that, you know. I: Well, you've been around the world pretty much, though, having been in the Army. H: Yes, yeah. I: Did you ever get to the west coast of the United States? Have you ever been to California? H: Just a little while. I: But you've been out there. H: Yeah. I: So you've been pretty much over the United States? H: Yeah. Well, ________ , I was stationed out there at the state of Vermont for a while. vou know.

PAGE 25

MISS CHOC 2A, I: Yeah? H: Just went in the service, and the time was, uh I think it was December 7 I was over there--when this Pearl Harbor happened, you know? I: Oh, is that so? H: Yeah, I was in Vermont. And well, I've been a round in Washington State, ---on through there. And landed in San Francisco, that's where I landed when I come back, you know. I: Have you ever been in my state of Florida? H: No. That's one of the states I haven't been in. I: One of the gentlemen out there had gone down there and picked vegetables/foi. pay, you know. They have a big crop every year. I forget which one it was, but he'd been down there, seasonally, and picked vegetables and then come back up H: Yeah, that's I: I forget which one of them it was. H: It's Charlie Denson, I think •. He's the one that was telling you I: Who? H: Charlie Denson. I: Yeah, I believe it was, too. H: That's the one. 25 I: I forgot to ask you, which one of these corrnnunities do

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MISS CIIOC 2A you come from around here? H: Community? I: Well, the •.. H, ~:" cfl~_Ke I: (#~,t,,.o/('hat' s where ? you're from. H: Yeah. I: I see. Well, it'lil save you the drive up from there tomorrow because it won't be necessary to come back. H: No. I: Well, I think it's getting time for jyou t01 go. And so, I'm gonna shut this .•. END OF TAPE. 26