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Interview with Thelma Tierny Hendrix, January 13, 1975

Material Information

Title:
Interview with Thelma Tierny Hendrix, January 13, 1975
Publication Date:
Language:
English

Subjects

Subjects / Keywords:
Catawba Indians -- Florida
Kataba Indians -- Florida
Catawba Oral History Collection ( local )

Notes

Funding:
This text has been transcribed from an audio or video oral history. Digitization was funded by a gift from Caleb J. and Michele B. Grimes.

Record Information

Source Institution:
Samuel Proctor Oral History Program, Department of History, University of Florida
Holding Location:
This interview is part of the 'Catawba' collection of interviews held by the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program of the Department of History at the University of Florida
Rights Management:
Made available under a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 4.0 International license: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/.

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UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA


ORAL HISTORY PROJECT




Interviewee: Thelma Hendrix

Interviewer: Frances Wade

January 13, 1975











UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA

ORAL HISTORY PROJECT

Interviewee: Thelma Hendrix
Interviewer: Frances Wade
January 13, 1975







Sleeping in a crowded bed, looking at the stars through the
roof, and bathing in the river are a few of the memories which
Thelma Hendrix discusses during her interview. Thelma, who was
born in 1932, was one of seven girls and one boy born to Fanny
Harris George and Alonzo Cannon.







CAT110A
Interviewer: Frances Wade
Interviewee: Thelma Hendrix
Date: January 13, 1975

W: This is Frances Wade. I live on Route 3, Box 304, Rock Hill,
South Carolina. Today is January 13th, 1975. I am gathering
oral histories of the Catawba Indians for the University of
Florida. Today I am talking with Thelma Hendrix. Thelma, what
if your full name?

H: Thelma Tierny Hendrix.

W: What is your address.

H: Route 7, Box 32. I live with my aunt, Isabel George.

W: Thelma, when is your birthday?

H: January 25, 1932.

W: How old are you?

H: Forty-two.

W: I would like to describe Thelma. She has coal black hair with
speckles of gray in it. She has dark brown eyes and she looks
like an Indian. She is slim and has a good figure. I would like
to say that she is one of my many sisters. Thelma, who are your
parents?

H: Fanny Harris George and Alonzo Cannon.

W: Are they Indian?

H: Yes.

W: Are they alive?

H: My mother is dead, my father is alive.

W: What brothers and sisters do you have?

H: There are seven girls in the family and one boy.

W: Would you tell me who they are and their birth dates if you can
think of them?

H: Well, I can just tell you their names and not their birthdays.

W: Alright.

H: There is Helen Beck, Frances Wade, Alberta Farrell, Haywart
Kenny, and Genieva, I do not know her last name.



1







W: I do not know her last name either.

H: Well, Genieva, and Joyce and Diane.

W: Joyce's last name is Green, what is Diane's last name?

H: Helowell.

W: Do all of your sisters live in and around this area?

H: Three live out west. Joyce Green, Genieva and Diane.

W: Are you married?

H: No, I am divorced.

W: You do have children, though?

H: Yes.

W: Did you marry an Indian?

H: No.

W: What are your children's names and their birthdates?

H: There is Anthony Cannon, he was born June eighth, 1956. Lisa
Cannon was born June second, 1958. Lisa Hendrix was born May
eighteenth, 1962 and Robert Hendrix, Jr. was born May nineteenth,
1964.

W: Thelma, what do you remember about the old reservation? You were
born on the old reservation. Do you remember anything about it?

H: No, but I remember when I used to live with you, we would lay in
bed to see the stars through the roof. I remember when we lived
there, there would be some men who would come in from town and
they would throw money out for us to scramble for. That money
would go to buy candy or whatever we wanted.

W: That was when we were all young and at home. These men that
did that, they rented the bottoms. They would stop by the house
and do that, would they not? I am glad you brought that up. It
just made me think, I had forgotten all about that. What kind of
a house did you live in when you were growing up?

H: A frame house.

W: How many rooms did it have in it?

H: It has three rooms.

W: It had three rooms, so that meant there were seven girls and one
boy and our mother.



2







H: Well, I had to sleep with three girls. I always had to sleep in
the middle and they would draw up and I would holler for mother
to make them straighten out where I could sleep warm.

W: Thelma, you went to school part of the time on the reservation.
What was school like down there?

H: It had three classrooms and I went to school in the biggest part.
It had a kitchen also, and brother Hays was my teacher. It had
one of those big bells that he would ring to get the children to
school every morning and to dismiss them.

W: Do you remember how the school was heated?

H: With a wood heater.

W: Did you use coal or wood?

H: Wood, as far as I can remember.

W: Who got the wood?

H: Uncle Sam.

W: Uncle Sam got the wood sometimes. Now when we say Uncle Sam, we
are talking about the former chief Samuel T. Blue. But, who
brought the wood into the schoolhouse?

H: The children.

W: Who went and got the water?

H: The children.

W: Where did they get it?

H: We got it from the well.

W: Who wanted to go and get it?

H: Just about everyone in order to get out of the classroom.

W: Who was your teacher.

H: Brother Hays.

W: That is Willard M. Hays?

H: Yes.

W: Did you have lunch at that school?

H: Yes, a lot of times Mama would pack a lunch for us to take.

W: Did you have to pay for lunch at school?


3







H: No, I do not think so.

W: I wonder why Mama packed lunch, rather than let you eat at
school?

H: She thought we did not get enough to eat.

W: Well, that is a good reason for packing it. What did you like
most about school?

H: I liked sports mostly, and science.

W: How did you get to school when you lived on the reservation?

H: We walked.

W: How many years did you go, down on the reservation?

H: Three years.

W: Then where did you go?

H: Northside.

W: Why did you go to Northside? Northside is in Rockhill?

H: We moved to another part of town, the new reservation.

W: That would be about three miles from Rock Hill. Do you remember
who your teachers were then?

H: I remember some of them. I know the principal's name was Mr.
Riser. One of my teacher's name was Miss Listly. I do not
remember all of them, it has been so long.

W: You are talking about Mr. Riser, I saw in the Saturday's paper
where he died.

H: Yes.

W: You said, of all the subjects you liked science the best. What
sports do you like?

H: Basketball, football, and softball.

W: Well, I would just like to say here, that I know that Thelma is a
good softball player. I have never seen her play basketball and
I am sure she is good at that. She would be a rough tackle if
she played football.

H: Well, I took basketball at high school and was on the varsity
team. My mother would not let me go because I did not have a
ride back at night, so I could not take it anymore.

W: Did you ride the bus?


4







H: No, we had to walk from about three miles. I would say about
three miles and a half form here to the nearest school, which was
Northside.

W: At that time, Indians were not allowed to ride the school bus,
were they?

H: No.

W: There was another thing that I was wanting to ask you about
school. Did you finish high school?

H: No, I went as far as the eleventh grade.

W: That was as far as it went at that time?

H: No, twelfth.

W: Why did you quit, Thelma?

H: I started work and could not do both, so my mother let me quit.

W: Do you think that your Mama wanted you to quit school and go to
work, or did you want to do it and she just let you?

H: I wanted to do it and she let me.

W: Do you think that she thought education was important?

H: Yes.

W: Do you think education is important enough for your children to
go on? Do you want your children to go to school?

H: Yes, I want for them all to finish. In fact, my oldest one will
finish up this coming Wednesday. He will be out of high school.

W: Do you think that he will go on and get more training of any
kind?

H: I hope he will.

W: Thelma, you were not one of the people who set out pines on the
reservation, were you?

H: No.

W: Can you remember when we used to draw money? Everybody talked
about drawing money, and when I say this, the state paid every
Indian a certain amount of money once a year. Can you remember
that?

H: I do not remember about the money, but I know that we used to get
what Mama called commodities and that was food for us.



5







W: Well, that was like the W.P.A. There was a time when all Indians
drew a certain amount of money from the state of South Carolina.
Thelma, when you were growing up, you were taken to the doctor
when you were sick. What doctor did you go to?

H: Dr. Blatman.

W: Did you have to pay?

H: No, the government paid for that.

W: Does the government still pay for your schooling or for your
doctor?

H: No.

W: How long has it been since you have not had a free doctor?

H: It was when Lisa was born, in 1958.

W: We ceased to have free doctors when the reservation was
terminated, do you think that was a good idea?

H: No.

W: Why do you think that was not a good idea?

H: Because a lot of these people cannot afford to pay the doctors
now. They could not back then. We got overruled on that when we
had the meeting that night. The ones that were making good pay
said they could afford it, but the rest of us could not.

W: So actually, there were less than twenty some odd people that
decided what would happen to the reservation out of the tribe of
six hundred. Twenty-some people decided our fate, did they not?

H: Yes.

W: What can you remember about Christmas?

H: I remember I used to get a hand me down box.

W: What is a hand me down box?

H: It is a used doll, baby doll. It has been fixed up with new
clothes. That was about it, maybe some little bit of candy and
maybe some fruit.

W: Do you remember getting any fruit from the church?

H: Yes.

W: That was given from money appropriated by the state, too. Are
you a member of any church?



6







H: The Mormon.

W: The Mormon church's proper name is the Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter Day Saints. Of course, we all call it Mormon and we know
when anyone mentions the name Mormon that this is just a shorter
name for it. Did you attend church when you were small?

H: Yes.

W: When did you become a member of it? How old were you when you
became a member?

H: I do not know.

W: You must have been eight, mother had us all baptized when we were
eight.

H: Yes, I remember being baptized in a little branch behind where my
Aunt Edith used to live.

W: That is down below where I live now.

H: Yes.

W: Thelma, who baptized you?

H: Ezel Thezel.

W: He was a missionary?

H: Yes.

W: Where did you attend church?

H: Whenever I go it is on the New Park.

W: When you were young, you attended church regularly, did you not?

H: Yes.

W: Do you have any reason for not attending regular now?

H: No.

W: Quite often, I think that we just get out of the habit and it
happens to each and every one of us. If we get out of the habit
of doing things, well, it just is easier to stay away than it is
to go. Thelma, we have got a new tribal committee. We have a
chief, two councilmen and a secretary and an assistant chief. Do
you think this is a good idea?

H: Yes.

W: Why do you think it is a good idea?



7







H: Well, right now they do more for the tribe. Before we had
nothing, now we can get more advanced education and job training.

W: Do you know some of the things that they are already doing for
the people?

H: As far as I know, there are some people already taking the job
training and they are trying to get others to take their training
so they can advance their skills.

W: We have other grants coming up that will benefit the Indians as
far as pottery and arts and crafts. We are in the process of
working out the problems so that the young people can go to
college. In fact, we have a young man that started at Winthrop
tonight. This will be his first night at Winthrop and he is
going under this Indian program. Thelma, are you proud to be an
Indian?

H: Yes.

W: Why are you proud to be an Indian?

H: I just am. I have heard a lot of the white people say that they
sure would like to be an Indian and I do not understand why they
would like to be one. I just am proud to be an Indian.

W: You are not ashamed to let anybody know that you are an Indian?

H: No.

W: I found that this is true with everybody. They are real proud of
their heritage. Do you think this pottery making business should
be continued?

H: Yes.

W: Do you know how to make pottery, Thelma?

H: No, but my mother taught me how to rub and beat the clay and mix
it. I never did have the will to make it.

W: Well, neither did we have the time, did we Thelma? We were so
busy doing all of those other things pertaining to the pottery,
that we did not have time to make them. Thelma, what kind of
jobs did you have to perform when you were little?

H: We had to milk the cows and get feed out for them and carry up
our water every day. We did the washing on a rub board and had
to cut and carry wood. Because I was the oldest girl and one boy
was in the service, we had to do a lot that he had done while he
was at home.

W: I know that you are real sports minded and you probably have done
lots of things that even Mama did not know about. What are some
of the things that you liked to do?


8







H: I liked to ride horses. My Uncle Richard used to come up to the
house about every Sunday and he would trade horses every so
often.
So, this was a new one he brought up on a Sunday and he told
my mother, he said, "Do not let the children go out there and
bother the horse, because it is new. I do not know how it will
be." I being stupid went on out.
I slipped out and got the horse and rode it over the road,
brought it back and tied it back up. My mother said, "Well,
where have you been? I said, "I rode the horse." She did not
give me a whipping, but she gave me a good talking to. It
tickled Uncle Richard, because I rode his horse.

W: Thelma, do you work anywhere?

H: No. I worked at a mill here in town, but it closed down.

W: Do you think when you worked, you got a good wage for the work
you did?

H: Yes.

W: I know that you are one of the people who will soon take
advantage of this program that the Indians have started. What
are you going to take?

H: I am going to finish my high school education and then take
nurses training.

W: To be a practical nurse?

H: Yes.

W: Where are you going to take this training?

H: At York Tech.

W: Under the Indian program will you get paid to go?

H: Yes.

W: How much money will you get paid an hour, to go?

H: Two dollars an hour.

W: This Indian program will certainly benefit you?

H: Yes.

W: You have a daughter that is getting ready to go under the same
program?

H: Yes.




9







W: Is she going to take the same nurses training that you are
planning to take?

H: Yes.

W: You just started telling me something that I had completely
forgotten about us taking baths when we were young. Would you
tell us now?

H: Well, in the summer time we would have to go take our baths in
the branch which was up behind the house and our mother would go
with us. We would take our washcloth and our soap and towel, put
on a pair of cut off shorts and take our bath. The girls would
be down in one part of the branch and the boys up at the other
part.
Most of the time when we would go, there would be a bunch of
children with us. We would have to divide off and Mama would be
sitting about middle ways, keeping her eye on everybody. In the
winter time we would just have to warm our water in the house and
take a bath in a big tub.

W: Everybody else would have to get out of the living room and stay
out of doors until the other person go through taking a bath,
would they not?

H: Yes.

W: It is really good to talk to those who remember things that you
might have forgotten, whether it is your sister or other people.
Thelma, I am sure, is proud to be an Indian and I know that she
takes part in what goes on around here. Thelma, do you get along
well with black people as well as white?

H: Yes, I do. I used to be a supervisor at Austro and I had colored
women work under me as well as white. I got along with them real
fine.




















10





Full Text

PAGE 1

UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA ORAL HISTORY PROJECT Interviewee: Thelma Hendrix Interviewer: Frances Wade January 13, 1975

PAGE 2

UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA ORAL HISTORY PROJECT Interviewee: Thelma Hendrix Interviewer: Frances Wade January 13, 1975 Sleeping in a crowded bed, looking at the stars through the roof, and bathing in the river are a few of the memories which Thelma Hendrix discusses during her interview. Thelma, who was born in 1932, was one of seven girls and one boy born to Fanny Harris George and Alonzo Cannon.

PAGE 3

CATllOA Interviewer: Frances Wade Interviewee: Thelma Hendrix Date: January 13, 1975 W: This is Frances Wade. I live on Route 3, Box 304, Rock Hill, South Carolina. Today is January 13th, 1975. I am gathering oral histories of the Catawba Indians for the University of Florida. Today I am talking with Thelma Hendrix. Thelma, what if your full name? H: Thelma Tierny Hendrix. W: What is your address. H: Route 7, Box 32. I live with my aunt, Isabel George. W: Thelma, when is your birthday? H: January 25, 1932. W: How old are you? H: Forty-two. W: I would like to describe Thelma. She has coal black hair with speckles of gray in it. She has dark brown eyes and she looks like an Indian. She is slim and has a good figure. I would like to say that she is one of my many sisters. Thelma, who are your parents? H: Fanny Harris George and Alonzo Cannon. W: Are they Indian? H: Yes. W: Are they alive? H: My mother is dead, my father is alive. W: What brothers and sisters do you have? H: There are seven girls in the family and one boy. W: Would you tell me who they are and their birth dates if you can think of them? H: Well, I can just tell you their names and not their birthdays. W: Alright. H: There is Helen Beck, Frances Wade, Alberta Farrell, Haywart Kenny, and Genieva, I do not know her last name. 1

PAGE 4

W: I do not know her last name either. H: Well, Genieva, and Joyce and Diane. W: Joyce's last name is Green, what is Diane's last name? H: Helowell. W: Do all of your sisters live in and around this area? H: Three live out west. Joyce Green, Genieva and Diane. W: Are you married? H: No, I am divorced. W: You do have children, though? H: Yes. W: Did you marry an Indian? H: No. W: What are your children's names and their birthdates? H: There is Anthony Cannon, he was born June eighth, 1956. Lisa Cannon was born June second, 1958. Lisa Hendrix was born May eighteenth, 1962 and Robert Hendrix, Jr. was born May nineteenth, 1964. W: Thelma, what do you remember about the old reservation? You were born on the old reservation. Do you remember anything about it? H: No, but I remember when I used to live with you, we would lay in bed to see the stars through the roof. I remember when we lived there, there would be some men who would come in from town and they would throw money out for us to scramble for. That money would go to buy candy or whatever we wanted. W: That was when we were all young and at home. These did that, they rented the bottoms. They would stop and do that, would they not? I am glad you brought just made me think, I had forgotten all about that. a house did you live in when you were growing up? H: A frame house. W: How many rooms did it have in it? H: It has three rooms. men that by the house that up. It What kind of W: It had three rooms, so that meant there were seven girls and one boy and our mother. 2

PAGE 5

H: Well, I had to sleep with three girls. I always had to sleep in the middle and they would draw up and I would holler for mother to make them straighten out where I could sleep warm. W: Thelma, you went to school part of the time on the reservation. What was school like down there? H: It had three classrooms and I went to school in the biggest part. It had a kitchen also, and brother Hays was my teacher. It had one of those big bells that he would ring to get the children to school every morning and to dismiss them. W: Do you remember how the school was heated? H: With a wood heater. W: Did you use coal or wood? H: Wood, as far as I can remember. W: Who got the wood? H: Uncle Sam. W: Uncle Sam got the wood sometimes. Now when we say Uncle Sam, we are talking about the former chief Samuel T. Blue. But, who brought the wood into the schoolhouse? H: The children. W: Who went and got the water? H: The children. W: Where did they get it? H: We got it from the well. W: Who wanted to go and get it? H: Just about everyone in order to get out of the classroom. W: Who was your teacher . H: Brother Hays. W: That is Willard M. Hays? H: Yes. W: Did you have lunch at that school? H: Yes, a lot of times Mama would pack a lunch for us to take. W: Did you have to pay for lunch at school? 3

PAGE 6

H: No, I do not think so. W: I wonder why Mama packed lunch, rather than let you eat at school? H: She thought we did not get enough to eat. W: Well, that is a good reason for packing it. What did you like most about school? H: I liked sports mostly, and science. W: How did you get to school when you lived on the reservation? H: We walked. W: How many years did you go, down on the reservation? H: Three years. W: Then where did you go? H: Northside. W: Why did you go to Northside? Northside is in Rockhill? H: We moved to another part of town, the new reservation. W: That would be about three miles from Rock Hill. Do you remember who your teachers were then? H: I remember some of them. I know the principal's name was Mr. Riser. one of my teacher's name was Miss Listly. I do not remember all of them, it has been so long. W: You are talking about Mr. Riser, I saw in the Saturday's paper where he died. H: Yes. W: You said, of all the subjects you liked science the best. What sports do you like? H: Basketball, football, and softball. W: Well, I would just like to say here, that I know that Thelma is a good softball player. I have never seen her play basketball and I am sure she is good at that. She would be a rough tackle if she played football. H: Well, I took basketball at high school and was on the varsity team. My mother would not let me go because I did not have a ride back at night, so I could not take it anymore. W: Did you ride the bus? 4

PAGE 7

H: No, we had to walk from about three miles. I would say about three miles and a half form here to the nearest school, which was Northside. W: At that time, Indians were not allowed to ride the school bus, were they? H: No. W: There was another thing that I was wanting to ask you about school. Did you finish high school? H: No, I went as far as the eleventh grade. W: That was as far as it went at that time? H: No, twelfth. W: Why did you quit, Thelma? H: I started work and could not do both, so my mother let me quit. W: Do you think . that your Mama wanted you to quit school and go to work, or did you want to do it and she just let you? H: I wanted to do it and she let me. W: Do you think that she thought education was important? H: Yes. W: Do you think education is important enough for your children to go on? Do you want your children to go to school? H: Yes, I want for them all to finish. In fact, my oldest one will finish up this coming Wednesday. He will be out of high school. W: Do you think that he will go on and get more training of any kind? H: I hope he will. W: Thelma, you were not one of the people who set out pines on the reservation, were you? H: No. W: Can you remember when we used to draw money? about drawing money, and when I say this, the Indian a certain amount of money once a year. that? Everybody talked state paid every Can you remember H: I do not remember about the money, but I know that we used to get what Mama called commodities and that was food for us. 5

PAGE 8

W: Well, that was like the W.P.A. There was a time when all Indians drew a certain amount of money from the state of South Carolina. Thelma, when you were growing up, you were taken to the doctor when you were sick. What doctor did you go to? H: Dr. Blatman. W: Did you have to pay? H: No, the government paid for that. W: Does the government still pay for your schooling or for your doctor? H: No. W: How long has it been since you have not had a free doctor? H: It was when Lisa was born, in 1958. W: We ceased to have free doctors when the reservation was terminated, do you think that was a good idea? H: No. W: Why do you think that was not a good idea? H: Because a lot of these people cannot afford to pay the doctors now. They could not back then. We got overruled on that when we had the meeting that night. The ones that were making good pay said they could afford it, but the rest of us could not. W: So actually, there were less than twenty some odd people that decided what would happen to the reservation out of the tribe of six hundred. Twenty-some people decided our fate, did they not? H: Yes. W: What can you remember about Christmas? H: I remember I used to get a hand me down box. W: What is a hand me down box? H: It is a used doll, baby doll. It has been fixed up with new clothes. That was about it, maybe some little bit of candy and maybe some fruit. W: Do you remember getting any fruit from the church? H: Yes. W: That was given from money appropriated by the state, too. Are you a member of any church? 6

PAGE 9

' H: The Mormon. W: The Mormon church's proper name is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Of course, we all call it Mormon and we know when anyone mentions the name Mormon that this is just a shorter name for it. Did you attend church when you were small? H: Yes. W: When did you become a member of it? How old were you when you became a member? H: I do not know. W: You must have been eight, mother had us all baptized when we were eight. H: Yes, I remember being baptized in a little branch behind where my Aunt Edith used to live. W: That is down below where I live now. H: Yes. W: Thelma, who baptized you? H: Ezel Thezel. W: He was a missionary? H: Yes. W: Where did you attend church? H: Whenever I go it is on the New Park. W: When you were young, you attended church regularly, did you not? H: Yes. W: Do you have any reason for not attending regular now? H: No. W: Quite often, I think that we just get out of the habit and it happens to each and every one of us. If we get out of the habit of doing things, well, it just is easier to stay away than it is to go. Thelma, we have got a new tribal committee. We have a chief, two councilmen and a secretary and an assistant chief. Do you think this is a good idea? H: Yes. W: Why do you think it is a good idea? 7

PAGE 10

H: Well, right now they do more for the tribe. Before we had nothing, now we can get more advanced education and job training. W: Do you know some of the things that they are already doing for the people? H: As far as I know, there are some people already taking the job training and they are trying to get others to take their training so they can advance their skills. W: We have other grants coming up that will benefit the Indians as far as pottery and arts and crafts. We are in the process of working out the problems so that the young people can goto college. In fact, we have a young man that started at Winthrop tonight. This will be his first night at Winthrop and he is going under this Indian program. Thelma, are you proud to be an Indian? H: Yes. W: Why are you proud to be an Indian? H: I just am. I have heard a lot of the white people say that they sure would like to be an Indian and I do not understand why they would like to be one. I just am proud to be an Indian. W: You are not ashamed to let anybody know that you are an Indian? H: No. W: I found that this is true with everybody. They are real proud of their heritage. Do you think this pottery making business should be continued? H: Yes. W: Do you know how to make pottery, Thelma? H: No, but my mother taught me how to rub and beat the clay and mix it. I never did have the will to make it. W: Well, neither did we have the time, did we Thelma? We were so busy doing all of those other things pertaining to the pottery, that we did not have time to make them. Thelma, what kind of jobs did you have to perform when you were little? H: We had to milk the cows and get feed out for them and carry up our water every day. We did the washing on a rub board and had to cut and carry wood. Because I was the oldest girl and one boy was in the service, we had to do a lot that he had done while he was at home. W: I know that you are real sports minded and you probably have done lots of things that even Mama did not know about. What are some of the things that you liked to do? 8

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H: I liked to ride horses. My Uncle Richard used to come up to the house about every Sunday and he would trade horses every so often. So, this was a new one he brought up on a Sunday and he told my mother, he said, "Do not let the children go out there and bother the horse, because it is new. I do not know how it will be." I being stupid went on out. I slipped out and got the horse and rode it over the road, brought it back and tied it back up. My mother said, "Well, where have you been? I said, "I rode the horse." She did not give me a whipping, but she gave me a good talking to. It tickled Uncle Richard, because I rode his horse. W: Thelma, do you work anywhere? H: No. I worked at a mill here in town, but it closed down. W: Do you think when you worked, you got a good wage for the work you did? H: Yes. W: I know that you are one of the people who will soon take advantage of this program that the Indians have started. What are you going to take? H: I am going to finish my high school education and then take nurses training. W: To be a practical nurse? H: Yes. W: Where are you going to take this training? H: At York Tech. W: Under the Indian program will you get paid,to go? H: Yes. W: How much money will you get paid an hour, to go? H: Two dollars an hour. W: This Indian program will certainly benefit you? H: Yes. W: You have a daughter that is getting ready to go under the same program? H: Yes. 9

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W: Is she going to take the same nurses training that you are planning to take? H: Yes. W: You just started telling me something that I had completely forgotten about us taking baths when we were young. Would you tell us now? H: Well, in the summer time we would have to go take our baths in the branch which was up behind the house and our mother would go with us. We would take our washcloth and our soap and towel, put on a pair of cut off shorts and take our bath. The girls would be down in one part of the branch and the boys up at the other part. Most of the time when we would go, there would be a bunch of children with us. We would have to divide off and Mama would be sitting about middle ways, keeping her eye on everybody. In the winter time we would just have to warm our water in the house and take a bath in a big tub. W: Everybody else would have to get out of the living room and stay out of doors until the other person go through taking a bath, would they not? H: Yes. W: It is really good to talk to those who remember things that you might have forgotten, whether it is your sister or other people. Thelma, I am sure, is proud to be an Indian and I know that she takes part in what goes on around here. Thelma, do you get along well with black people as well as white? H: Yes, I do. I used to be a supervisor at Austro and I had colored women work under me as well as white. I got along with them real fine. 10