Citation
Interview with Cheryl Mackie, September 21, 1972

Material Information

Title:
Interview with Cheryl Mackie, September 21, 1972
Creator:
Mackie, Cheryl ( Interviewee )
Publication Date:
Language:
English

Subjects

Subjects / Keywords:
Catawba Indians -- Florida
Kataba Indians -- Florida
Catawba Oral History Collection ( local )

Notes

Funding:
This text has been transcribed from an audio or video oral history. Digitization was funded by a gift from Caleb J. and Michele B. Grimes.

Record Information

Source Institution:
Samuel Proctor Oral History Program, Department of History, University of Florida
Holding Location:
This interview is part of the 'Catawba' collection of interviews held by the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program of the Department of History at the University of Florida
Rights Management:
Made available under a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 4.0 International license: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/.

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UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA


ORAL HISTORY PROJECT


INTERVIEWEE: Cheryl Mackie
INTERVIEWER: Emma Reid Echols


DATE: September 21, 1972





















E: This is Emma Reid Echols, Route 6, Box 260, Rock Hill, South
Carolina. It is September 21, 1972. I'm interviewing a junior
high girl, Cheryl Mackie, in the home of her mother, Mrs. Watts.
She happened to be out of school today, and so I'm fortunate
to be able to see her. They live in Red River, in the first
house just beyond the railroad track. Will you give me your
full name?

M: Cheryl Dean Mackie.

E: And how old are you, Cheryl?

M: Fifteen.

E: As a little girl, you moved with your parents, I believe, from
Pineville to Fort Mill. Where did you live?

M: Fort Mill.

E: And then you remember this home as your next home, is that right?

M: No, ma'am. From Fort Mill we moved over behind Knox School.
Then we moved over to Springdale, and from Springdale to here.

E: Oh, yes. Then your first school was where?

M: Leslie Number One.

E: And tell me about those schooldays.

M: There were mostly more Indians over at Leslie Number One than
there were now.

E: When you played on the playground, did all the Indians play
together, or did you mix and play with the whites?

M: We mixed and played with the whites and the colored together.

E: Did you have some friends among the whites as well as among
the Indians?








2








M: Yes, ma'am.

E: What about the way the teachers treated you? Did they treat
all of you alike?

M: Yes, ma'am.

E: What teachers do you remember at Leslie?

M: I remember Mrs. Simpson...the only one I remember over there.

E: Do you remember the principal of the school? Do you remember
Mr. Crawford?

M: No, ma'am. He wasn't the principal when I was going to school.
I don't remember who it was.

E: But you had a number of teachers, and they all treated you
great. You liked Leslie school. Where did you go from Leslie?

M: To Rosewood.

E: Now what teachers do you remember at Rosewood School?

M: Well, let's see. From the first year at Rosewood, I remember
Miss Harris; and then, second grade, I remember Miss
and third grade, I remember Miss Burns. Fourth grade, I remember
Miss Craig, Miss White, and Mr. ; fifth grade, Mrs. Dickson;
sixth grade was Mr. and Mrs. __ and Miss .

E: You must have been a good student to remember all of those. Now,
what subjects did you like especially in school? Anything special?

M: Well, I liked math.

E: Did you ever read much, and find out all you could about the
Indians?

M: Fact is, I never did have no books about the Indians, but I
read about different other kinds of Indians.

E: Have you ever been in school where they taught about the Catawba
Indians?








3






M: No, ma'am.

E: They don't have any unit on Catawba Indians?

M: No, ma'am.

E: You've missed that, haven't you?

M: Yes, ma'am.

E: And there are so few books written that you can read about that.
Now, what about in the art classes? You Indians are so talented
in art--did you do anything special in art?

M: Well, I tried for art for this year. Over there at Castle Heights
you have to be required to take art, and I asked for it, and they
said I wasn't required to take it, so I couldn't take art.

E: You are now at Castle Heights. What grade are you in now?

M: I'm in the eighth.

E: Eighth grade.

E: Now, what subjects do you like specially in the eighth grade?

M: Well, I like social studies and science and math.

E: In your social studies, do you find anything about the Catawba
Indians?

M: No, ma'am. Not so. We ain't found nothing in there yet.

E: Do your teachers ever talk to you about the history of the Catawba
Indians?

M: No, ma'am. I'm afraid I've never had anybody that's more
intelligent about the Catawba Indians. My science teacher,
he's a social studies teacher, too, but I don't have him for
social studies. I got a book out of the library about Catawba
Indians, so he said he was gonna read it. I don't know if he
gave it out to his social studies class or not.

E: Do you remember the name of that book?








4








M: History of the Catawba Indians.

E: That's the one written by Mrs. Brown?

M: Yes.

E: I believe so. That is a very detailed and very good book.

M: Um, huh.

E: I hope you'll get a chance to see it. There's lots of pictures
in that.

M: I've already looked at it myself. It's my book, and he wanted
to borrow it, but I done looked at it.

E: I hope you get it back and you get to read it. Now what are you...
when you finish school at Castle Heights, you'll go to high school,
won't you?

M: Yes, ma'am.

E: And after you finish high school what do you want to do?

M: I want to be a teacher.

E: Good for you. That means some more studies; that means going
to college, and taking preparatory courses of all kinds. What
special subject would you be interested in?

M: Math.

E: I think that would be fine. Now, besides school, what else are
you interested in? Do you have any hobbies?

M: Not really. We used to have a field out there where we could
play softball. We got some good games over there in P. E.
Over at Castle Heights, we play football now, but when we git
on up, we'll play bowling and soccer; we'll be promoted to
high school.

E: Now you're at Castle Heights, where there's blacks and whites
and Indians, and you're in classes with all of those.

M: Yes, ma'am.







5








E: Do the teachers treat all of you alike?

M: Not really. Over there, they tell you do good to them, they'll
be good to you. Some of those colored over there, they can't
get along with us, and they just try to go their way, and we
try to go our way. Sometimes they'll get in trouble. Like,
last year I wasn't there (was the day I was sick) they had a
riot, and what you call nigras walked outa school. No whites
walked out, so they expelled the nigras for two weeks. And then
when I came back, them nigras tried to start more trouble.

E: Well, you Indians...have you ever caused any trouble over there?

M: No, ma'am.

E: Well, I'm glad to hear that. Now, on the athletic field you have
both whites, blacks, and Indians. Do you notice any differences?
Can the Indians do things the others can't do...better?

M: I've heard about training in football.

E: Do any of the Indians go out for football?

M: Yes, ma'am.

E: A number of them do.

M: Yes, ma'am.

E: And you yourself enjoy anything in the line of sports, don't you?

M: Yes, ma'am.

E: Well now, what do you do with your hands? Do you do any embroidery,
or sewing, or anything of that kind?

M: I try to sew a little; and embroidery, I try to do that too.

E: And do you hope to take sewing lessons at school?

M: Yes, ma'am. I'm going to take that next year.

E: Well, I hope you do get to take that. You'll need that as you go
to make a home. Now, fifteen years old. Do you date yet?

M: No, ma'am.

E: Well, do you go down to any parties down on the reservations?

M: Yes, ma'am.








6








E: What kind of fun...what do you do at your parties down there?

M: We go down there...mostly when they have parties it's just the
grown-ups get down on the...they'll get on stage with guitars
and they'll sing, and then some of them get up there and they'll
cut up. They'll tell jokes, you know, funny jokes and all, and
they get up and they'll have their square dances and all.

E: Do you enjoy doin' those square dances and things?

M: Yes, ma'am. They have a cake walk down there, too.

E: Cake walk? Now, tell me about a cake walk.

M: We all have to go down and get in. Have to go as couples. You
go around in circles, and they'll be playing' music. They'll
be a certain person standing outside the circle. They'll have
a broom in their hand, and they have to be about that far apart.
They're playing' guitar music, and when they'll stop, whoever got
the broom, they have to throw it down in the middle, and who it
goes between gets the cake, or has to get half of it.

E: Someone throws his broom down in the center of the circle and
whoever has that broom when the music stops, they get that cake?

M: Yes, ma'am.

E: Have you ever won one of those cakes?

M: No, ma'am.

E: Well, maybe your time will come yet.

M: Yes, ma'am.

E: Do you enjoy square dancing?

M: Yes, ma'm.

E: How often do you have those celebrations in there?

M: Not too often they have them down there. But they have a class
what they call seminary class--young, young, you know. Say from
kids about eight to about thirteen, they have seminary class in
the evenings for them, and the ones from about fourteen to about
eighteen, they have a seminary class in the mornings. They go

















down to Frances Wade's house. She's the teacher, and she'll
have a party for them, and we camp out. I went to it last
year, and we camped out in the woods. Not in the woods--we
camped out in her side of her house there, under the big
old trees.

E: Do you go to that seminary this year?

M: No, ma'am. See, she doesn't have a way up. She can't come
up this far to get me.

E: That's right. And you miss that, don't you?

M: Yes, ma'am.

E: Then you really study the Bible at those seminary meetings?

M: We don't have the Bible; we have a book called the Book of
Mormon.

E: The Book of Mormon. And that's what you use for your studies?

M: Yes, ma'am.

E: How many would be in a group like that studying with Frances
Wade?

M: Well, there're over twenty-one. When I was there last year,
there was about twenty-five people in there.

E: And you think she does a good work in the seminary? Everybody
seems to like her, don't they?

M: Uh, huh.

E: Well, I hope you'll have a chance to go back to those classes,
because you seem to be interested in them.

M: I do too.





Full Text

PAGE 1

UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA ORAL HISTORY PROJECT INTERVIEWEE: Cheryl Mackie INTERVIEWER: Ennna Reid Echols DATE: September 21, 1972

PAGE 2

E: This is Emma Reid Echols, Route 6, Box 260, Rock Hill, South Carolina. It is September 21, 1972. I'm interviewing a junior high girl, Cheryl Mackie, in the home of her mother, Mrs. Watts. She happened to be out of school today, and so I'm fortunate to be able to see her. They live in Red River, in the first house just beyond the railroad track. Will you give me your full name? M: Cheryl Dean Mackie. E: And how old are you, Cheryl? M: Fifteen. E: As a little girl, you moved with your parents, I believe, from Pineville to Fort Mill. Where did you live? M: Fort Mill. E: And then you remember this home as your next home, is that right? M: No, ma'am. From Fort Mill we moved over behind Knox School. Then we moved over to Springdale, and from Springdale to here. E: Oh, yes. Then your first school was where? M: Leslie Number One. E: And tell me about those schooldays. M: There were mostly more Indians over at Leslie Number One than there were now. E: When you played on the playground, did all the Indians play together, or did you mix and play with the whites? M: We mixed and played with the whites and the colored together. E: Did you have some friends among the whites as well as among the Indians?

PAGE 3

2 M: Yes, ma'am. E: What about the way the teachers treated you? Did they treat all of you alike? M: Yes, ma'am. E: What teachers do you remember at Leslie? M: I remember Mrs. Simpson the only one I remember over there. E: Do you remember the principal of the school? Do you remember Mr. Crawford? M: No, ma'am. He wasn't the principal when I was going to school. I don't remember who it was. E: But you had a number of teachers, and they all treated you great. You liked Leslie school. Where did you go from Leslie? M: To Rosewood. E: Now what teachers do you remember at Rosewood School? M: Well, let's see. From the first year at Rosewood, I remember Miss Harris; and then, second grade, I remember Miss ____ , and third grade, I remember Miss Burns. Fourth grade, I remember Miss Craig, Miss White, and Mr. ____ fifth grade, Mrs. Dickson; sixth grade was Mr. ____ and Mrs. ____ , and Miss E: You must have been a good student to remember all of those. Now, what subjects did you like especially in school? Anything special? M: Well, I liked math. E: Did you ever read much, and find out all you could about the Indians? M: Fact is, I never did have no books about the Indians, but I read about different other kinds of Indians. E: Have you ever been in school where they taught about the Catawba Indians?

PAGE 4

M: No, ma'am. E: They don't have any unit on Catawba Indians? M: No, ma'am. E: You've missed that, haven't you? M: Yes, ma'am. 3 E: And there are so few books written that you can read about that. Now, what about in the art classes? You Indians are so talented in art--did you do anything special in art? M: Well, I tried for art for this year. Over there at Castle Heights you have to be required to take art, and I asked for it, and they said I wasn't required to take it, so I couldn't take art. E: You are now at Castle Heights. What grade are you in now? M: I'm in the eighth. E: Eighth grade. E: Now, what subjects do you like specially in the eighth grade? M: Well, I like social studies and science and math. E: In your social studies, do you find anything about the Catawba Indians? M: No, ma'am. Not so. We ain't found nothing in there yet. E: Do your teachers ever talk to you about the history of the Catawba Indians? M: No, ma'am. I'm afraid I've never had anybody that's more intelligent about the Catawba Indians. My science teacher, he's a social studies teacher, too, but I don't have him for social studies. I got a book out of the library about Catawba Indians, so he said he was gonna read it. I don't know if he gave it out to his social studies class or not. E: Do you remember the name of that book?

PAGE 5

M: E: M: History of the Catawba Indians. That's the one written by Mrs. Brown? Yes. 4 E: I believe so. That is a very detailed and very good book. M: Um, huh. E: I hope you'll get a chance to see it. There's lots of pictures in that. M: I've already looked at it myself. It's my book, and he wanted to borrow it, but I done looked at it. E: I hope you get it back and you get to read it. Now what are you when you finish school at Castle Heights, you'll go to high school, won't you? M: Yes, ma'am. E: And after you finish high school what do you want to do? M: I want to be a teacher. E: Good for you. That means some more studies; that means going to college, and taking preparatory courses of all kinds. What special subject would you be interested in? M: Math. E: I think that would be fine. Now, besides school, what else are you interested in? Do you have any hobbies? M: Not really. We used to have a field out there where we could play softball. We got some good games over there in P. E. Over at Castle Heights, we play football now, but when we git on up, we'll play bowling and soccer; we'll be promoted to high school. E: Now you're at Castle Heights, where there's blacks and whites and Indians, and you're in classes with all of those. M: Yes, ma'am.

PAGE 6

5 E: Do the teachers treat all of you alike? M: Not really. Over there, they tell you do good to them, they'll be good to you. Some of those colored over there, they can't get along with us, and they just try to go their way, and we try to go our way. Sometimes they'll get in trouble. Like, last year I wasn't there (was the day I was sick) they had a riot, and what you call nigras walked outa school. No whites walked out, so they expelled the nigras for two weeks. And then when I came back, them nigras tried to start more trouble. E: Well, you Indians have you ever caused any trouble over there? M: No, ma'am. E: Well, I'm glad to hear that. Now, on the athletic field you have both whites, blacks, and Indians. Do you notice any differences? Can the Indians do things the others can't do better? M: I've heard about training in football. E: Do any of the Indians go out for football? M: Yes, ma'am. E: A number of them do. M: Yes, ma'am. E: And you yourself enjoy anything in the line of sports, don't you? M: Yes, ma'am. E: Well now, what do you do with your hands? Do you do any embroidery, or sewing, or anything of that kind? M: I try to sew a little; and embroidery, I try to do that too. E: And do you hope to take sewing lessons at school? M: Yes, ma'am. I'm going to take that next year. E: Well, I hope you do get to take that. You'll need that as you go to make a home. Now, fifteen years old. Do you date yet? M: No, ma'am. E: Well, do you go down to any parties down on the reservations? M: Yes, ma'am.

PAGE 7

6 E: What kind of fun what do you do at your parties down there? M: We go down there mostly when they have parties it's just the grown-ups get down on the they'll get on stage with guitars and they'll sing, and then some of them get up there and they'll cut up. They'll tell jokes, you know, funny jokes and all, and they get up and they'll have their square dances and all. E: Do you enjoy doin' those square dances and things? M: Yes, ma'am. They have a cake walk down there, too. E: Cake walk? Now, tell me about a cake walk. M: We all have to go down and get in. Have to go as couples. You go around in circles, and they'll be playin' music. They'll be a certain person standing outside the circle. They'll have a broom in their hand, and they have to be about that far apart. They're playin' guitar music, and when they'll stop, whoever got the broom, they have to throw it down in the middle, and who it goes between gets the cake, or has to get half of it. E: Someone throws his broom down in the center of the circle and whoever has that broom when the music stops, they get that cake? M: Yes, ma'am. E: Have you ever won one of those cakes? M: No, ma' am. E: Well, maybe your time will come yet. M: Yes, ma'am. E: Do you enjoy square dancing? M: Yes, ma'm. E: How often do you have those celebrations in there? M: Not too often they have them down there. But they have a class what they call seminary class--young, young, you know. Say from kids about eight to about thirteen, they have seminary class in the evenings for them, and the ones from about fourteen to about eighteen, they have a seminary class in the mornings. They go

PAGE 8

7 down to Frances Wade's house. She's the teacher, and she'll have a party for them, and we camp out. I went to it last year, and we camped out in the woods. Not in the woods--we camped out in her side of her house there, under the big old trees. E: Do you go to that seminary this year? M: No, ma'am. See, she doesn't have a way up. She can't come up this far to get me. E: That's right. And you miss that, don't you? M: Yes, ma'am. E: Then you really study the Bible at those seminary meetings? M: We don't have the Bible; we have a book called the Book of Mormon. E: The Book of Mormon. And that's what you use for your studies? M: Yes, ma'am. E: How many would be in a group like that studying with Frances Wade? M: Well, there're over twenty-one. When I was there last year, there was about twenty-five people in there. E: And you think she does a good work in the seminary? Everybody seems to like her, don't they? M: Uh, huh. E: Well, I hope you'll have a chance to go back to those classes, because you seem to be interested in them. M: I do too.