Citation
Interview with Mrs. Mary Lowry Jacobs, July 26, 1969

Material Information

Title:
Interview with Mrs. Mary Lowry Jacobs, July 26, 1969
Creator:
Jacobs, Mary Lowry ( Interviewee )
Publication Date:
Language:
English

Subjects

Subjects / Keywords:
Florida History ( local )
Lumbee Oral History Collection ( local )
Spatial Coverage:
Lumbee County (Fla.)

Notes

Funding:
This text has been transcribed from an audio or video oral history. Digitization was funded by a gift from Caleb J. and Michele B. Grimes.

Record Information

Source Institution:
Samuel Proctor Oral History Program, Department of History, University of Florida
Holding Location:
This interview is part of the 'Lumbee County' collection of interviews held by the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program of the Department of History at the University of Florida
Rights Management:
Made available under a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 4.0 International license: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/.
Resource Identifier:
LUM 215 ( SPOHP IDENTIFIER )

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Full Text
VA'1 / LUM2 45A
Page 1.
INTERVIEWEE: Mrs. Mary Lowry Jacobs
INTERVIEWER: Adolph Dial
July 26, 1969
D: This is July the 26th, 1969. I am here at the home of Mrs. Mary Lowry
Jacobs. Mrs. Mary Lowry Jacobs is the widow of the late Mr. Knowlee
Jacobs'and also the, let's see now, what, what relation were you to
Henry Barry Lowry?
3: That was my uncle.
D: What was your father's name?
J: Patrick.
D: And Mr. Patrick was the brother of Henry Barry Lowry?
J: Yes.
D: Mr. Patrick was a minister, wasn't he?
J: Yes, sir.
D: Now you want to tell me something about youi father's work? What
did he do?
J: Well, he was a farmer and a carpenter.
D: He was considered one of the Indian leaders back in his day, wasn't he?
J: Yes, sir.
D: How old are you, Mrs., Mrs. Jacobs?
J: Eighty-four.
D: Eighty-four. You seem to be in very sound mind. Your mind's good.
J; Yes, sir, pretty good,
P; We're sitting here at Mrs, Jacob's home which is within, oh, fifty
or aeVyety-ftve yar.s of what used to be the old normal school, the





LUM 2 5A
Page 2. dib
school that was-established as a.'result of the legislation in 1885
under the late legislator Hamilton McMillan. Will you tell me something
about the old normal school that was across the road here in your field,
'Mrs. Jacobs.
J: Well, all I can tell you is that I went to school there before...
,D: Who was your, who was your first teacher at the old normal school?
J: Professor Henderson.
D: Professor Henderson Oxendine. Did you also attend, was W. L. Moore
one of your teachers, too?
J: Yes, sir.
D: I believe W. L. Moore was the first principal of this school, was he
not?
J: Well, of the littleischool?
D: No, of the, what was the normal...
J: The college?
D: ...the college, yes?
J: I don't know who the first principal was.
D: I think he'was the first one there. This college building, it was a
two-story building, was it?
5: Yes, sir, two-story.
D: And what happened to the building? Was it torn down or did it burn or
what? /
J: It got burnt down.
D: It was buried down; I' see. And right near this school was another little
-t~~~ ~ ; ,~~~~~~i '





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Page 3. dib
school. What did you call that?
J: They always called it the little school.
D: Oh, they always called it the little school and I believe your packhouse
has some lumber in it from one of these buildings. That was the
little'school, was it?
J; Yes, the little school.
D: I see. Did you attend the college and the little school?
J: Yes, sir, I attended both.
D: And did you go down to the present site of Pembroke State University,
did you attend school there any?
J: No, sir, I was done married then.
D: Uh huh, and you were married then. How far did you go in school, Mrs.
Jacobs?
J: Fourth grade.
D: Fourth grade, well, back in those days they didn't have the opportunity
that we have today and certainly education was limited. But you seem
to be a very intelligent lady. Where did you get most of your educa-
tion, on your own?
J: 'Yes, sir, wost at that little school.
D: Yes, sir, and of course reading on your own over the years I suppose.
J: Yes,, sir.
D: Now Mrs. Mrs. Jacobs, you being the daughter of Mr. Patrick Lowry, is
that correct?
J: That's correct
D; And Mr. Patrick Lowry is the son og Henry Barry Lowry, is that...
'. i 1





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J: No, they were brothers.
D: Excuse me, yes, the brother of Henry Barry Lowry.
J: Yes.
D: Yes, Mr. Patrick is the brother'of Henry Barry Lowry. There seems
to be conflicts and opinions on what happened to Henry Barry Lowry.
Would you tell me what you've heard over the years? What did Mr.
Patrick say or anyone else? Will you just go ahead and talk a while
and tell us about that?
J: Well, to tell you the truth don't know much about Henry Barry, only
just what I've heard.
D: Yes, well, that's all we want you to tdll is what you've heard, yes.
J: Yes, I didn't never see him.
D: What do you think, did you ever hear Mt. Patrick say what he thought
happened to him or what was toldeto hiim?
J: No, I don't because I was so young whef riy daddy died, so I don't
remember hearing him talk about him, jdst what Mama Ild tell.
D: What would your mother tell? Did your mother, did your father die
before your mother? n
J: Yes, Mama had been alone for an awful long time. *
D: That's right, so how old were you whent!Mr. Patrick died?
J: Seven years old.
D: Seven years old, I see, So he's a veryrfine looking gentlemen. That
picture you have there in the bedroom, he seems to be a fine looking
fellow. Well, perhaps then I should a6k what did, what were some of





LUM 2Q5A
Page 5. dib /
the stories that your mother told? By the way what was your mother's
name?
J: Mary.
D: Mary, and who was she before she married Mr. Patrick?
J: Callahan.
D: Mary Callahan, I see. She was a white lady I suppose.
J: Supposed to be.
D: I see, now what did she think, what stories did she tell? Certainly
she heard Mr. Patrick tell tome things. What did she seem to think
that happened?
J: Well, I, I don't know, only she said they come along by home there
with him carrying him off to bury him and that Patrick said he won't
see the last of him until he told them, no, to drive on.
An'A rw \
D:A-4r, of course they didn't open him up, they didn't open the box up
did they?
J: No, they didn't open him up.. He didn't, said he didn't want to see him.
D: As a matter of fact they were really not sure that anyone was in this
box.i i
J: No.
D: This could have been a fake. Some seemroto think that this was a fake-
in order to have people thinking he was Idead so they would stop looking
for him and maybe he went on away.
J: Yes, that was about like it I guess.-
D: Some seem to think that he was killed while cleaning his gun. so you
recall ever, hearing this story? '
J: Yes, I heated that, too. Said he 'as, the outlaws was a counting the





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Page 6. dib
money out on the swamp somewhere or another and he walked around,
he was a watching and walked around the corner of the house,and
the gun struck the corner of the house and went off and killed him,
but we don't know whether that was so or not.
D: Well, there's one thing we know. Whether he left here or, or whether
he died as a result of the, an accident from his own gun, we do know
that the reward that the government had for his body was never collected.
So it does seem to be quite a mystery even until this day, doesn't it?
J; Yes, it's, well, there was a fellow told me that he was shipped away
from here and a few, years back he sent word into the courthouse to
see if he could come back home and spend his last days in his old
lady's home and they told him, no, if he did he'd be killed, and
if he ever got killed I don't know.
D: It appears that after he was never seen again in this area after
1872, that he never did return and if anyone knew where he was they
never did give away the secret. 'Back in that day the Indians could
keep secrets for a long, long time, couldn't they?
J: I guess they could keep them.
D: They must have because they certainly kept this one, kept it real
well.
J: Yes. 1
D: I find in my interviewing that people in the area seem to have a great
deal of respect for Henry Barry Lowry. He was what you would call
somewhat a gentleman when at came to respect for the ladies and so
forth. Would you want to say something on this?
J: Well, I don't know nothing.





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Page 7. dib
D: Did you ever hear that he was a respectable fellow, that he treated
women nice and all?
Lu/n.4-^a7
J: Yes, I, I heard that they locked him up one time in m4intaef and
locked up his, no, locked up his wife.
D: Yes, his wife,
-J: And...
D: His wife, Rhoda.
J: ...he sent them word if they didn't go and turn her out that he had
never had bothered the womenfolks, but if they didn't turn his wife
out they'd get their womenfolks and do something with them. I don't
know'what they was going to do.
D: Yes, I believe someone said that he'said he would destroy Lumberton
in blood and ashes and they said the womenfolks of Lumberton became
very much concerned aak about this and they had them to turn him loose.
J: Yes, that's right,'what I heard. Let me tell you another thing.
D: Yes, go right ahead.
J: Mamashad a history of his whole life. There's a book about that
. t 1i .. ha ibroaC A rthat'-hi'K and she tore it up
and stuck it up in the old kitchen. After my daddy died.there was *
one place Where where he was in the river behind the
boat with his head stuck up shooting at people. They lived, they
/ erJrj zorry cade 3h\ dcL
lived right back up here ..ie ."- .
D: What spot was that? Across the river? 1
*nnr c no cv
J: No, right up here where my sister, M41(atpe livei
D: Oh, yes, right where Mr..,.
'\ .





INVX", LUM 24)5A
Page 8, dib
U: ..____ .. .................
D: Yes, the Sanderson place there,
J: Yes, I, I...
D: Uh huh, I see.
J: ...I can show you right where they lived, her and u Jn r ... when
they was married.
D: That was after they were married and of course they lived across the
river before that time,
J: Yes, they lived across there, I think they was born and raised across
oter wonder
the river A on the Lowry settlement.
D: Yes, I see. Do you have any brothers and sisters living today; Mrs.
Jacobs?
J: No, only one half-sister.
D: What is her name? \
J: Janie Hatcher.
D: Oh, yes, Miss Jane Hatcher, she's stilt living,
J: Uh huh. :
D: Oh, yes. Now how old is Miss Hatcher? !
J: I reckon Jane's about eighty-nine. *
D: Oh, she's a little older than you.
J: Uh huh.
D: She's still in sound mind I imagine.
J: No, I don't believe she is.
D: Uh huh. When did you see your half-sister? Oh, it's been a while, eh?





LUM 2p5A
Page 9. dib
J: No, I believe, no, it's been about, about two weeks.
D: Well, what are some of the interesting stories that you remember
in your childhood days and things that you probably never will for-
get that you think about a lot today?
J: Well, I remember picking cotton with my daddy, Nenr arrS brother.
D: Oh, yes, Mr. Patrick.
J: Yes, Patrick Lowry.
D: Uh huh, well, now you were dnly seven when he died, do you, can you
just barely remember picking that cotton?
J: I can remember picking that cotton with him as good as I can remember,
better than I can remember some things today.
D: Yes, well,' that was, that was certainly a long, long time ago.
J: A long time. 1
D: Picking cotton was a hard job. r used to do some of it myself. Of'
course today the machines are taking care of it.
J: Yes, and I can'remember when he got to where he couldn't get out in
the field 'and pick he'd have us to pull off the knotty bowls and
fetch them to the porch, pour them dowr and he'd sit there and pick
out them knotty bowls.
D: I see. Now after Mr. Patrick died you, did you continue working on
the farm? r
J: I worked oh the farm all my days till I got disabled to work.
D; When did you first move to this location where this house is located?
J: Let me see now if P can remember that. I was just trying 4 Stud i .
I 'I~~~~~~T~"-~_~
I t I~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~i





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Page 10. dib
I'm nearabout forgot exactly,
D: I see, now but you, did you move here right after you were married?
J: Yes, sir. Married on Saturday night and moved here that next day.
D: Was this farm your husband's people's farm?
J: It was -my husband's farm when I moved here.
D; I see, did he inherit it?
J: Yes, the old man Bill Jacobs was his grandfather and he got in debt
and Knowlie paid up the debt and got the place, him and Jim Jacobs.
Jim Jacobs got thirteen acres over there. Knowlie got the balance
here.
D: I'see. Did you ever attend any of the quilting parties that they
used to have years ago, or the corn shucking and so forth?
J: I can remember the corn shucking. :
D: They were, someone'said they would hide a five gallon jug of whiskey
in the middle of the corn-and when they shucked up the pile of corn
then all of them would have a drink.. Was that the way they would do
it? i
J: We had 4ew-a new, a new ground clearing, my half-brother had over at
their home on my daddy's place, and he had a jug of whiskey and he
had them to cut down the logs and roll them together and burn them.
D: Log rolling.
J: Yes, and then he'd give them the whiskey and supper. I can remember
one of Knowlie's brothers, Rob Jacobss he got drunk and about the only
cussing I !ever heard I heard him 'cuss that night. They had to lock
him, shut him up in the room....'
1-: !. '. .p. 1





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D: Well, why...
J: ...to keep, keep Brown from killing him for cussing Brown. I
never heard Brother Brown cuss.
D: Why was it back in that day that it seemed that drinking was more
acceptable then than it was today? Didn't most of the people, or
did they, did most of them drink a little bit back when you were
a child?
_s % %s.*- 1 _9
J: Yes, thereAwas ieaoy drink. 2 around re:k _, -^ tu there was a
barroom right over there across the road, Jenny Thompson.
D: Oh, yes, they used to have public barrooms back when..
J: Uh huh, og, tloui' order a whisky.
D: When was this? When was the latest barroom that you know about in
the area?
J: Well, it was after I was married. No, I remember that now, before
I was married.
D: When did you marry?
J: The seventeenth of December, 19-, Lord,: I've, I've forgotten__
D: How,;how old were you when you married?
J: About...
D: Probably eighteen.
J: ...nine, nineteen, I reckon.
D: Nineteen I see. -So they have those public barrooms people would do
quite a bit of drinking then, wouldn't they?
J: Yes.'
D: Yes, it seemed that it was qore acceptable among the Lumbees then than





LUM 215A
Page 12. dib
it is today.
J: I think my daddy kept a little whisky for medicine as long as he lived.
D: Oh, yes, most of them did I'm sure, and of course it's true that
that medicine would make you feel good.
3: I guess it would. Did you ever, did you ever drink any?
D: No, I don't fool with it. Back when you were a Child what was the
diet like? What did you all eat mostly back in those days?
J: What we growed on the farm.
D: Cornmeal and pork.
J: We had, we growed wheat, had a lot of flour made, and rice, we growed
rice...
D: Oh, did you grow rice?
J: Sure, I wished you could see, I don't know if Ae old ------
-he.re
overAat Simon Locklear's now, that I beat ice -in. We beat rice vy
Saturday to have rice for Sunday dinner. yes, I hod rice and Mama,
she cooked syrup. ''
D; I see.
3: Mama had a cane mill'and Lord,-Isstopped at the cane mill many a day
and fil4,it with cane, and then she'd cook, take that juice and cook *
syrup out of itfor ten cent a gallon. People would fetch their cane
in there, you know, for her to cook syrup.
D: Yes;
J: That's the way she mostly made h.ir money after Pap died.
D: People do:much hunting back in those days?
J: I went rabbit hunting many a times.
D: And'you'd carry a gun or what did you carry?
I ~ 'I





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Page 13. dib.
J: Just let the dogs run t. right up a hollow tree and take a briar
and twist him down.
D: Oh, put a briar in there and twist it around and pull him down.
3: Twist it in there and pull him down and carry him home, let Mama
clean him and cook it.
*D: You used to do that?
J: Yes.
D: Of course sometime you'd catch them before they go mn'a hollow I guess.
J: No, we couldn't catch them until they'd go up a hollow. There was
plenty of hollow trees back then, you know..
D: And they'd always go in a hollow.
J: They'd go up a hollow,
D: That's interesting. r
J: We didn't use a gun.
D: You do much fishing in your young days'?
J: Fishing?. Well, Lord of mercy, I'd rather fish than eat when I was
hungry. You go out there sometimes to this rail-
road ditcht and catch you a mess of fsTi directly. Plenty of fish in
the'ditches. Did you know what's d;n Wi+-ha?
D: What's, that?
J: People putting poison in the fields and washing in _
D: Yes, I think this is doing away With lots of our wildlife.
J: It's doing, it's doing away with the fish in the river.
D: I believe :it, I believe it, Mrs.' Jacobs, Well, what's some other things
you remember during your young days?
r i '4 *.:'i l
' ; ^ ^ '' *' .. r <-'" ^'





V ii
LUMI 215A
Page 14. dib
J: Oh Lord, I can't remember everything. I'm too, too old to remember
everything.
D: What was life like during your, well, when you and Mr. Jacobs were
courting before you married, what would you do for entertainment?
J: Worked .on the farm.
.D: And when he come to see you would you take a trip, would you go
anywhere' or would you stick around the house? i
J: No, Mama wouldn't let me go with him nowhere. See, there weren't
no cars back-then.
D: Yes.
J: And she didn't want me to have him.
D: Well, you just mostly sat around the house and...
J: Yes.
D: ...talked and so forth and that was the biggest thing that you did.
J: Yes.
D: Was Pembroke, what was Pembroke like during your early days?
J: Well, I can remember about two stOres, I reckon, in Pembroke back
when I wascyoung and I can remember Lumberton. It was a, just a small
place. t
D: Some of the people used to walk tt Fayetteville before your time.
Did you evdr hear of those stories, walking to Fayetteville for groceries?
J: Yes, thelold man, Bill Jacob's wife, last wife, said they OsMed -:te*
bunch up add walked to Fayetteville to get some bread.
D: I see, well, it certainly must have been tough times. Well, do you
Kno4omet#ng else you'd like today? T





V IIUI 215A
Page 15. dib
J: Well, I was___
D: Now Pftk. X \is older than Pembroke, isn't it? The present building
at __ has it been there as long as you can remember?
J: It was there when I was a small girl. I used to pick huckleberries
and carry them down and sell them for five cent a quart.
D: I' see. Well, 'the tape's about up and thanks a lot, Mrs. Jacobs. Thanks
for the interview and thanks for your cooperation. So I suppose we'll
be signing off here and I've enjoyed the conversation and appreciate
your cooperation and interested in what you had to say and I hope that
you have' many, many more years left ahead. This is Adolph Dial, July
the twenty-stixth, 1969, signing off on this tape.
j Z -ftcing- Zvef beaA I-re Q> e eno -----nL-- --- '
r 4 ?
*-' .... l dead and gone.
D: Let's see, one other word, what'did you say?
3: I said I hope I won't have many more years r
1.. ..
*to i
' i ii,





Full Text

PAGE 1

I 4 JJ 1 i' 1~~/.,~I./..) < l.:::/ /..J'(::u J l.:JC./:Jj--27::: . .-:::,,()IJ \; l}\S'' LUM ztsA 'iS . . Page 1. INTERVIEWEE: Mrs. Mary Lowry Ja.cobs INTERVIEWER: Adolph Dial July 26, 1962 3/IJ/7 (.-J D: This is July the 26th, 1~69. lam here at the home of Mrs. Mary Lowry Ja~obs. Mrs. Mary Lowry .:Jacob& :ls the widow of the late Mr. Knowlee Jacobs and also the, let• s see now, what, what relation were you to Henry Barry Lowry? 5: That was my uncle. D: 'Wl\at wasyour father'sname? J: Patrick. D: And Mr. Patrick was the b-rother of Henry Barry Lowry? .J: Yes. D: Mr. Patrick wa~ a minister, wasn~t he? J: Yes, sir. ... D: Now you want to tell me something about you~ father's work? What I did he do? J: Well, he was a farmer and a carpenter. D: lle was considered one of the Indianleaders back in his day, wasn•~ he.1 J: Yes, str. D: Howold are you, Mrs., Mrs. Jacobs? J: Eighty-four. D: Eighty-four. Youse~ to be in very sound mind. Your mind's good. . . J . . Ye~, ~ir, pretty good. P; We~~e sitting here ~t Mr~. Jacob's hOJne which is within, oh, fifty ' 9r aeyen_ty-f~a yard& of what used to be the old normal school, the ~--~---~---~~--------___;_----~-~~-

PAGE 2

Page 2. df.b . school that was. established as a: .result of . the legislation in 1885 under the late legis-lator HaJllilton .McMio/an. Will you tell me something about the old nomal sch9ol that was across the road here in your field. Mrs. Jacobs. . J: We.11, ijll I can te.11 you is that I went to school there before ,D: Wn.o was your, whowas your first teacher at the old normal school? . J: Professor Henderson. D: Professor Henderson ~endine. Did you also attend, was W. L. Moore one of your teachers, too? .. J: Yes, sir. D: I believe W. L. Moore was the first principal of this stjiool, was he ... not? J: Well, of the littleischool? D: No. of the, what.wa,s the nonnal... J': The. college? f! D: the college, yes? J': I don't know who the fir.st prtnd.pal was •. D: I think h~was the first one there. This college building. it was a : two-story building, was it? 3: Yesp sir, two-storyo D: And what happened to the building? Was it torn down or did it burn or what? / I J: It got burnt downe D: It was buried down~ l' se.e~ And ~ight near this school was another little ..

PAGE 3

LUM 2Q5A Page 3. dib school. What did you call that? J: They always called it the little school. D: Oh, they always called it the little school and I believe your packhouse has some lumber in tt frOlll one of these buildings. That was the llttle school, was it? J; Yes, ,the little school. D: I see. Did you atten.d the college and the little schocl? J: Yes, sir, I attended both. D: And did you go down to the ~resent.site of Pembroke State University, did you attend school there any?. / .:r: . No, sir, I was done manied then •. ... D: Uh huh, and you were married then. , How far did you go in school, Mrs. Jacobs? J: Fourth grade. D: Fourth grade, well, ba~k tn those days they didn't have the opportunity that we hive today and certainly:education was limited. But you seem to be a very intelligent lady. Where did you get most of your educa~ tion, on your own? J: Yes, sir, :most at that little school. D: Yes, si:r;\:and of course reading on your own over the years I suppose. J: Yes-, 1 sir/ __ 0 D: Now Mrs-. Mrs. Jacobs, you being the daughter of Mr. Patrick Lowry, is that correct'l J: Th~t's cor'r~ct~ D: And Mr. Pe!tr:tck. Lowry. 1:s tl\B. son 0 Henry Barry Lowry. ia that •i .!

PAGE 4

-~-------------------------------~--=, Page 4 •. dib J: No, they were brothers. D: Excuse me, yes~ the brother of Henry Barry Lowry. J: Yes. D: Yes, Mr. Patrf.cl is the' brother of Henry Barry Lowry. There seems to be conflicts and opinions on what happened to Henry Barry Lowry. Would you tell me what you've heard over the years? What did Mr. Patrick say or anyone eise? Will you just go ahead and talk a while. and tell us about that? J: Well, to tell you the. truthX don't know much about Henry Barry, only just what 'I've hearq. D: Yes, well, that's all we want you to tell is what you've heard, yes. 3: Yes,~ didn't never see him. D: What do ydu think, did you ever hear Mt. Patrick say what he thought happened to him or what was told"to him? I . J: No, I don't because I was so young whefi ny daddy died, so I don't remember 'Hearing hilll talk about liim, jtist what Mama 'ld tell. D: What would your mother tel17 Did your mother, did your father die before your mother? ., n J: Ye.s, -~ had bee~ alone for an awful long time. D: That's right, so how old were you when• 1 Mr. Patrick died? J: Seven yeats old. ! D: Seven years old,Isee,, So he's a veryt'fine looking gentlemen~ That picture you have there in the bedroom, "lhe seems to be a fine looking ;l;el;l.ow-. Well, perhaps, then r shduld ask what did what were some of ,1 .

PAGE 5

Page 5. dib I the stories that your mother told? By the way what was your mother's name? J: Mary. D: Mary, and who wa,s she be.fore she •Mrried Mr. Patrick? J: Callahan-. . D: Mar.y. Callahan, l see:. Sh.a was a white lady I suppose J: Supposed to be •. D: I see, now what did she think, what stories did she tell? Certainly she heard Mr. Patrtck tell ~ome thtngs. What did she seem to think th.at happened? J: Well, l, I: don't know, only she said they come along by home there with him carrying him off to bury him and that Patrick said he won't see the last of him until he told them/ no, to drive on~ , A~~w ' D: A -Nc1', of course they didn't open him up, they\ didn't open the box up did they? r I J: No, they didn't open him up.0 He didn't, said he didn't want to see him. D: As a matter of fact they were really not sure tha~ anyone was in this box. i J: .Noa D: This could have been a fake. Some seemr•to think that this was a fake in order to have people. thinking he wasidead so they would stop looking for him lnd -maybe he went on away. J: Yes, that ~as about like it I gue~s. D: . . . . S~e :seem to . th:i:nk that he was killed while cleaning his gun. ~o you recall ever, hearing this story? 1 : J: Yes, I heared that, too. Said he 1 lwas, t'he outlaws was a counting the

PAGE 6

I Page 6. dib mcmer out on the swamp so\ewh.ere or another and he walked around, he was a watching and walked around the corner of the house,and the gun struck the corner of the house and went off and killed him, but we don't know whether that was so or not. D: Well, there's one thing we know. 'Whether he ~eft here or, or whether he died aa a result of the, an accident from his own gun, we do know ' that the reward that the government had for his body was never collected. So.it does seem to be quite a mystery even until this day, doesn't it? J; Yes, it's, well, there was a fellow told me that he was shipped away . irom h.ere and a few-years back he sent word into the courthouse to see if he could come back home and spend his last days in his old lady's home and they told him, no, if be did he'd be killed, and if he. ever got killed I don't know. :, D: It appears that after he was never seen again in this area after I 1872, that he never did return and if anyone knew where he was they never did give away the secret. 'Back fn that day the Indians could keep secrets for a long, long tin\e, couldn't they? J: I. guess they could keep them. D: They must have because they -certainly kept this one, kept it real well. J: Yes. J): I find in my interviewing that people in the area seem to have a great deal of respect for llenry Barry Lowry. h He was what you would call somewhat a gentleman when :tt came to respect for the ladies and so forth. Would you want to say something on this? .J: Well, I don't know nothing.

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LUM 2~5A Page 7. dib ' D: Did you ever hear that he was a r_espectable fellow, th.at he treated. J: women nice and all? ~bu-r-7 . ,, and ~tuck it up in the old kitchen. After rr,.y daddy died.~here was : . one Place Where __ ._._._.__._ __ where he was in the river behind the boat with his head stuck up shooting at'people. They lived, they . . / . .. '-!enr!:J l,o..rr!f cv-d... "l\'ricdct. lived right back up here, a-t Sl:iaaadhbrr~' P..d What spot was that? Across the river? 1 . , . mo.r4-h'.,,.c/r No, right up_ h.e.re. where m~ sister, MHi@lfl!'et_ liv? •. Oh, yes, right where Mr \ \ \ l. ~\ .,.

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.Page 8, dib U: ---------------------D: Yes, the Sanderson place there. J: Yes, I-, I' D; Uh. huh, I see. J: I can-showyou right-where they lived, her and Htn 4 they was -married. , when D: That.was afte.r they were -married and of course they lived across the river befo~e that ti~e. J: Ye_s, they lived across ther~, Ithink they was born and raised across O'l!t" 3onde.r _ th~ river A : on the Lewry settlelllent .. D: Yes, I see. Do you have ~y brothers and sisters living today; Mrs. Jacobs? J: No, only one balf-s:t.ster~ D: What is heir name? J: Janie lf.atcher. D: Oh, yes, Miss Jane Batcher, she's sttli liv.tng, J: Uh huh. D: Oh, yes. Now how old is Miss Hatcherf 1 J: I reckon Jane's about efghty-nineo D: Oh, she's a little older than you.. a J: D: J: Uh huh. She's stft11 in sound mind I imagine. No, I don't believe she ts. P: 'Uh. huh. Wnen did you see your half-sister? Oh, it's been a while, eh? f

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Page 9. dib ,J: No, I believe, no, it's been about, about two weeks. D: Well, what are some of the interesting stories. that you remember in your childhood day~ and things that you probably never will for get that you think. about a lot today? J: D: Well,, Iremember p:f:cking cotton with my daddy~ Ue.nry ~n(.s brother. On, yes~ Mr. Patrick. .1: D: Yes, Patrick Lowry .. Uh huh., well, now you were dnly seven when he died, do you, can you just barely remember p~ckfng that cotton? J: I can rem~oer ptck.tng that cotton with him as good as I can remember~ _,. oetter, than I can remember some things today. D: Yes,. well,' that was, that was certainly _a long, long time ago. J: . A long time •. D: Picking co_tton was a hard job. 1? used rto do som.e of it lllYSelf. 1 course today the machines ~re tak~ng care of it. J: Yes, and I canremember when he got to where he couldn't get out in the field :and pick he'd have us to pull! off the knotty bowls and fetch them to the porch, pour thelll dowd and he 9 d sit there and pick out them knotty bowls .. l D: I see. row aft~~-Mr. Patrick died you, did you continue working on the farm? r J: I worked ob the farm all my days till I got disabled to work. , D; Wh~n dj.'<1 y(>u til:'st ~e to this location where this house is located? . . ? J: Let me see;now ff! can Temember:that. ). I was just tx:yin~ st.~ l. '• ... .

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LUM 2~5A Page 10. dib I'-Jll nearabout j;o:rgot e.x~ctly.. D: r se.e, noW' but you, did you move here right after you were married? J: Ye_s, sir. Married on Saturday night and moved here t~t next day. D: Was-th.:ts f ar:Ill your husband's people's farm? J: It was -my husband'~ fa~m when I moved here. D; l see~ did lle inherit it? . . J: Yes, the old man Bill Jacobs was his grandfather and he got in debt and Knowlie paid up the debt and got the place, him and 3im Jacobs. Jim Jacobs got thirteen acres over there. Knowlie got the balance " here. 1 ' D: I see. Did you ever attend any of the quilting parties that they used to have years ago, o~ the corn shucking5 and so forth? J: can r:member the corn shuckings •. '. D: They were; someon-e'said they wou]d hide a five gallon jug of whiskey in the middle of the corn,and when they shu~ked up the pile of corn then all of them would have a drink •. Was that the.way they would do it? i ' J: We ha~~a new, a new ground clearing, my half-brother had over at their home on my daddy 1 s place, and he had a jug of whiskey and he had them t'o cut down the logs and roll them together and burn' them. D: Log rolling. J: Yes, anq' t:hen AA'~ give them the :whisk~y and supper. I can remember one of Knowlie~s brothers, Rob Jacobs 9 1\e got drunk and.about the only cussing I 1 e.ver heard l heard him ~cuss t!ha~ night.. They had to lock him, sli..ut ibiin up in the room ..... ~.

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LUM 215A Page 11. D: Well, why dib J: to keep, keep Brown fro~ killing him for cussing Brown. I, never heard BrotherBrown cuss. D: Why was it back in that day that it seemed that drinking was more acceptable then than tt was today? Didn't most of the people, or did they, did most of them drink a little bit back when you were a ch:i:.ld? J: I~ b
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LUM 215A Page 12. it is today dib .J: I think my daddy kept a little whis~y for medicine as long as he lived. D: Oh, yes, most of them did I'm sure, and of course it's true that that medicine would make you feel good. 3: i guess. lt would. Did you ever, did you ever drink any? D: No, r don't fool with it. Back when you were a dhild what was the . diet like? What did you all eat mostly back in those days? J: What we growed on the far'?1• D: CornMeal and pork. J: We had, we. growed wheat, had a lot of tlour made, and rice, we growed rice D: Oh, did y6u growrice? J: Sure, I wished you could see,I don't k.nm, 1fhe olcl.. -----6,e.re., . overAat Simon Locklea,t's now, that I beat ~ice :in.e We beat rice eve,~ Sat-urday to hav~ ~or Sunday dinner. Yes, I hJd rice and Mama, she cooked syrup •... _______ _ D; Isee. 3: t-tama had a cane mill'a,nd Lord,-I..:stopped at the cane mill. many a day .-~ . and 1 fill4\it with cane, and then she'd cook, take that juice and cook * . ' _syrtlp_ out~of i~_for ten cent a gallon. People would fetch their cane in there,'you know, for her to cook syrup. D: Yes~ I J J: Tha,t.• sthi way she ~ostly made h,ir money after Pap died. D: People do:much hunting back in those days? J: l weht raUbit hunting many a times. D: And 'you'd.carry a gun or what did you carry? ii . '!

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----------------------; -------------~----' LUM 215 A. Page 13. d:l;b 3: Just let tha dogs run tt.right.up a hollow tree and take a briar and twist him down. D: Oh, put a ortar in there and twist it around and pull him down. J: .Twist ft fn there and pull him down and carry lrl.Dihome, let Mama clean him and cook it. D: You used to do that? J: Yes. D: Of course sometime you'd catch them before they go in a hollow I guess. J: No, we couldn't catch them 1til they'd go up a hollow. ,There was plenty of' hollow trees, back then~ you know.. -. D: And they'd always go in a hollow. J: They'd go up a hollow. D: That•'s nteresti.ng. J: We didn't use a gun. D: You do much fishing in your young days'? . ... J: Fishing? Well, Lord of mercy, I'd rather fish than eat when I was~ hungry. ... , ' . You go out there sometimes __ f:__ ______ to this railroad dtcn and catch yo~ a mess of f~sli directly. Plentf of fish in ; the.'-dtches. Dtd you know what's'~ s~inj with.then\? D: ~t'& that? J: People putting poison :tn the fields and washing in!~•. _ I . . . ~--n: Yes, I think this is doing away with lots of our wildlife. J: It's doing, tt•s doing ~y with the fish in the rtver. D: I believe :ft., I. believe it, M~sJ. Ja.colis. Well11what's some other things you remember during your young dJys? .-, ii

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LUH 215A Pa.ge 14. dib J: Oh Lord, I can't.remember everything. I'm too, too old to remember everything. J: .D: J: D: J: D: J: D: J: 'What was life like during your, well, when you and Mr. Jacobs were courting before you married, what would you do for entertainment? Worked ~n the farm. And when he come to see you would you take a trip, would. you go anywhere'or would you st:ick around the house? No, Mama wouldn't let ~ego with him.nowhere., See,. there-weren't no cars back then. Yes.' And she didn't want me to have him. I Well, you just mostly sat a:r:ound the hoilse and Yes. ..,_ talked and so forth and that was the big,est thing that.you did. Yes. I: I D: Was J?emoroke, what was Pembroke like during your early days? J: Wall; I ca,n remember about two stbres~ I reckon, in Pembroke back when 1'.I: wasr.young and l can remembe1• LUlnberton.' It was a, just a small place. / D: .1: Some 1 of thd people used to walk t~ Fayetteville before your time. Did you evdr hear of those storte,, walking to Fayettevilie for groceries? Yes, the/old mari~-Bi:11 Jacob's wife, last wife, said they O.SKecl. bunch up and walked to _'Fayettevill!e to get some bread,. D: t see, well, it certainly must have been tough times .. Well do you h I' hI li , I

PAGE 15

I.UM 215A Page 15. dib J: D: Well, I: was ________ _ '> I Now .• Pol~ {t\Y'is older than Pembroke, isn't it? The present .. ? ()l'-\e__'i .. at fo.C.(U , has it been there as long as you can remember? building Ji I:t was th.ere when I' was a small girl. I used to pick. huckleberries and carry them.down and sell them for five cent a quart. . . D: I see. Well, _-t)i~ ;ape's about up and thanks a lot. 11 Mrs. Jacobs. Thanks for the tntervte:wand thanks for your cooperation. So I suppose we'll be signing off here and I've enjoyed the conversation and appreciate you~ cooperation and interested in what you had to say and I hope that you have rmany, many more years left ahead. This is Adolph Dial, July the twenty-si:xth, 1969, signing off on this tape •. :r: .J: -eh..in~ .:C 1 ve.. -be:e,"i.