Interview with Elder and Mrs. John Parker, September 10, 1974

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LUM 197A

INTERVIEWEE: Elder and Mrs. John Parker

SUBJECT: Lew Barton

September-10, 1974 dib



B: This is September 10, 1974. This is Lew Barton interviewing for

the University of Florida's History Department's American Indian

Oral History Programl This afternoon I am in the home of Mr. and

Mrs. Redell Collins near Red Springs, North Carolina. It's nearer

Creshannon actually and with me is Elder and Mrs. John Parker, P-a-r-

k-e-r, who have kindly consented to give me an interview. In this

interview they give an explanation of the only Christian church to

originate in America and say something about how it relates to the

American Indian. They also speak of work of the church of Jesus

Christ of Latter Day Saints among the Lumbee Indians of Robeson

County. They have a church in Pembroke and one near Magnolia in

Robeson County. And they do have a special interest in Indian

people. This is the only church, the only Christian church which

revolves around the American Indian. They regard the American Indian

as God's chosen people for these Latter Days and they base it upon

the scripture which says, I think this is a quote by Jesus, "I have

other sheep and these I must also bring," and some of this recording

has been lost because it was accidentally erased, but much of it is

still intact.For purposes of this study, that is the American Indian

Oral History Program, our interest is not necessarily in this particular

denomination from a religious point of Vew p aeV bu because of its

historic implications and the interesting, the very, very fascinating










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really, series of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints

or as it is popularly known, the Mormon Chruch. The Mormons

as they are popularly known, accept the Bible as sacred writ, but

they also accepted Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon, said to
-e- -t
have been found in America in the form of golden plates, -gtd plates

which still exist today and Joseph Smith, whom they regard as a

prophet, is supposed to have translated some of this Book of Mormon

or he has supposed, he is supposed to have translated the golden

plates that were found in America, and this is what is called the

Book of Mormon. Joseph Smith was eventually murdered because of

his beliefs and in history we read about Brigham Young. The Mormons

are very strong in the state of Utah. They go into the various Indian

communities and work and set up the ehreh as well as possible and

do much of their work __ -l'_A that is most of it if not all of

it they pay their own expenses and so forth. One of the most interesting

features of their beliefs hinges on fact which they say is irrefutable

fact that among all groups of American Indians there was this belief

in the coming of a messiah which they might not have called a messiah

at all. They might have called him by some other name according to

their own language, but it is very, very intriguing to realize that

among these various groups of American Indians there were traditions

and there were people looking forward to the coming of a messiah whose

name may have Varied from tribe to tribe. But this lends great

credence to the Mormon doctrine. I became interested in the Mormons

because of their great interest in the history of the American Indian.









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Naturally since their religion hinges on the American Indian they

have taken great pains to do great research and make archaeological

studies, everything of, that was available to them. Therefore their

interest in the history of the American Indian is greater than that

of any other religious group simply because of this fact and simply

because of this belief that the American Indian is the chosen people

of God for these Latter Days. Whether you subscribe to the Mormon

belief or not(I'm not a Mormon myself. I'm a Missionary Baptist)

but whether you believe this or not or whether you subscribe to the

Mormon religion or not the historical sphere of the Mormons is

fascinating and these are genuine archaeological findings. These

are genuine things/so far as it goes. Of course they tie it on

to this tradition. They explain how Cortez performed this miraculous

feat almost, well, it was miraculous or it was almost magic how he

captured Mexico City, and the reason for this, according to the Mormons

is that they regarded Cortez and his people as gods and they didn't

dare resist. They accepted them as gods for a time and consequently

were just about wiped out, you know. This is very, very ironic.

I remember as a child reading in the history books of American history

and reading about some of the Indians running, turning and running

in terror at the approach of some of these Cortez people and I was

made to feel very much ashamed of this because according to these

books my people were cowards and there was something that didn't ring










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true in this whole thing because living among my people and with my

people all my life I knew they certainly were not cowardly. But

I was, I was made to feel very badly as I did as a child, and I

resolved that when I grew up I would study and do something about

it. I would find, first of all I wanted to find out the truth about

my people. But you say, you see what a great difference there is

in the interpretation of one group and another. Of course the American

Indians were not cowards any more than all American Indians are

lazy and shiftless or are all alcoholics. This simply does not hold

true. At any rate I am very proud to present much of this explanation

as we have left on the American Indian and how he fits into the

religious program, the overall program I mean. Now I'm sure you

will be fascinated even as I was as you listen to John Parker, Elder

John Parker relate some of these interesting things to us. Incidentally

this was the last tape, interview tape in Robeson County, North Carolina,

after which we moved over here to Baltimore, Maryland, and pursued

our interviewing over here. There will be a brief portion of this

tape on which there is no sound, but we invite you to travel the tape

forward until you resume: the sound again, and the first voice you

hear speaking will be that of Elder John Parker, who as I said earlier

is attached to, of the two churches of Latter Day Saints of Jesus

Christ in Robeson County, North Carolina. Elder Parker tells me that

his father was in the Lumbee Indian Community from sixty-nine years

ago and I understand that he also worked on the coast of North Carolina










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Proper and unfortunately there encountered some pretty severe persecu-

tion on the part of people who disagreed with the Mormon doctrine.

There is much prejudice toward this particular religious group and

it's often claimed that they advocate multiple marriages. Of course

the United States Supreme Court ruled at one time in our history,

you know, against multiple marriages even among religious people,

and so the Mormons did fall into disrepute because of this in

certain quarters at one time in our history. But this should not

detract from the historical work which this work has done. The

archaeological findings and all the rest of it, and so I am recommending

that you listen to this not from a religious point of view but from

a point of view of pure history or series regarding history, Indian

traditions and the rest of it. I believe historians like all other

scientist, should take their information wherever they may find it

and pursue it because often Indian traditions lead to historical

findings and things that can actually be proved. Indian traditions

are amazingly accurate, in some cases more accurate than the written

page because people handed these traditions down from generation to

generation. These were important things that people felt that their

children should know about and so they preserved them in this particular

way.

P: ...legends of the Great White Father coincides with this same legend

that the American Indian have here in this country. This is truly

a history of the American Indian and how they became a mighty people










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upon this continent. But due to their iniquities and their proud

living and forgetting the Lord they soon become an extinct or a

fallen people because they didn't worship the Lord as he should.

Now after the savior appeared to the American Indians they lived

righteously and became a very wealthy and prosperous nation. They

built great cities, they knew about surgery because they have found

in South America today surgical instruments that will perform the

most delicate operation on the brain that they've ever found. They've

also found other materials of hardened copper, so hard they said that

they found a chisel that was so hard that they couldn't touch it with

our modern day file. They also found sheets of gold written upon

that had a form of Egyptian, but they call it a reformed Egyptian

language. They have found that they were great workers in gold.

Many beautiful ornaments and golden trinkets and jewelry and things

of this nature. They have found that they were great artisans in

the working of gold. They built large cities. They even knew astro-

nomy. They had a, they found one building down there, they call it

the astronomy building where they, it was laid out in such a way

that they could study the stars and they knew all about the universe.

They had other types of buildings, a ball field which they played

a game, and the hoop was a ring that they would kick the ball through,

was about twenty-eight feet off in the ground. They were great

sportsmen. They loved to show their feats of strength and they must

have been quite a large, well-developed physical specimen of an










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athlete. They had all types of buildings with sacred baths and

baptismal ponds, and some of the legends and some of the things

that the Indians have today date back to these people. It is be-

lieved by some archaeologist that what we call the Leehighmanen DLI7-J

was the Inca and what we call the Mulekites would be the Mayan

and what the Jeradite nations that landed would call, they would
To (fsr-
call the Tbetees. Now these here they have definitely found in

these ancient ruins, these various periods of time of the American

Indian. Many people wonder why Cortez when he landed on this conti-

nent was accepted so fully by the Indians. Because they, when the

savior was here with them prior he told them that he would return

again, and so they were watching and waiting for the Great White

God that had appeared to them before to come back again. Now Cortez

had a hundred and seventy-five men it is known in history. He had

all kinds of weapons of war. But there was a great multitude of

people in this area and due to the type of implements of war that

they had they could) have killed the e,' 'people if they wanted

to rush Cortez and destroy him. But they didn't want to destroy

Cortez because they thought that he was the Great White Father, and

they laid down all their armaments and various war-making tools and

Cortez ruled them with an iron hand. Now Cortez destroyed a lot

of their beautiful temples that they had built, and in one valley

there's a temple for every day of the year, three hundred and sixty-

five temples and Cortez destroyed every one of these temples and










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built a Catholic cathedral in it's stead. Not only did these people

here on this land look for a Great White Father, but the people in

the Samoan Islands also looked for a white supreme being, and when

Captain Cook went into the islands, the South Sea Islands, and landed,

he landed at one of their great festivals, and when he landed they

thought he also was the Great White God. But due to his underhanded-

ness and the way he treated the natives they decided that he was not

the white god and so they killed Captain Cook on these islands. Now

footnote #1S Mulek is spelled M-u-l-e-k, and Ishmael is re&d f-pelk/

-s-h-m-a-e-l. In the Book of Mormon it tells about the Book of

Mormon and I'd like to read from Ezekiel, 37, verses 15-19. "The

word of the Lord came again unto me saying, "More was thou son of

man, take thee one stick and write upon it for Judah and for the

children of Israel, his companion. Then take another stick and

write upon it, "For Joseph, the stick of Ephram and for all the

house of Israel, his companion, and joing them one to another in

to one stick and they shall become one in my hands." Many people

do not understand what these words mean in the Bible. They have

no idea whatsoever. Well, through the revelation given to the

Lord through the prophet, Joseph Smith, we have found out that the

stick of Judah is the Bible and this gives the history of the Jewish

people. Now a stick that the Jews wrote upon was sort of a scroll-

like affair that they wrote with their hands and it was aLap or

a form of material that they wrote upon and they called it a stick.










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Now many people have wondered where the stick of Joseph is. Well,

the Book of Mormon tells about the descendents of Ephram or the

stick of Joseph. Now many wonder what, who Joseph was in this

here paragraph. 'He was the son of Jacob that was sold into Egypt

and there he became a mighty ruler. Also in ;1kh, chapter 29,

verse 1-4, it states, "Woe-to Arial, woe to Arial, the city where

David dwelled. Add to years to years, let them kill, sacrifice.

Yet I will distress Arial and there shall be heaviness and sorrow

and it shall be unto me as Arial, and I will camp against thee year.
S!?)e er onouA'/
round about and will lay ea against thee with and I

will raise forth against thee and thou shall be brought down and

shall speak out of the ground and thy speech shall be low out of

the dust and thy voice shall be as one that have a familiar

spirit out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the

dust." We believe this is the Book of Mormon because it did come

out of the ground. It was written upon gold plates and then translated

by the power and gift of God through the prophet, Joseph Smith.

Now in the last verse it says, "..and they f shall be one in my

hand." We believe the Book of Mormon and the Bible are the stick

of judah and the stick of Ephram and that two of them in our hand

gives us the complete doctrine of the Lord, Jesus Christ. "Many people

will say, and because my word shall hiss forth many of the gentiles

shall say, "A Bible, a Bible, we have got a Bible and there can be

no more Bibles. Wherefore," mumuring he, "because we, that we have

shall receive more of my word? No ye not that the testimony of










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two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, that I remember one

nation like unto another? Wherefore, I speak the same words unto

one nation like unto another, and when the two nations shall run

together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also."

We believe this testimony of the two nations is the Bible, for it

would speak of the nation of the Jewish people, and the other nation

is the nation of the Nephites and Lamenites here upon the American

continent, and the two of them run together and testify of the truth-

fulness of the Lord, Jesus Christ. Now we do not claim as Mormons

that the Book of Mormon replaces;,the Bible or the Bible replaces

the Book of Mormon. We say that it testifies, the Book of Mormon

testifies of the truthfulnes of the Bible and the Bible will testify

the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon and"the two in my hands will

give us the true light and doctrine of the Lord Jesus Christ." I

do know and I can testify that I do know that these things that we

have told you today are true.

B: Thank you so very much:Elder Parker. That is certainly enlightening

and fascinating. Could we, could I ask you a question or two about

the work here in Pembroke? How, would you tell us something about

the work and how it's going or something about the history of the

work here in Pembroke?

P: Well, I can't tell you just exactly when they first put missionaries

in here, but it has been some time ago. I do recall that my father

spent two years here about sixty-nine years ago, and when the missionary









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work started in this part of the area I cannot say for sure. But it

has been back prior to 1890, somewhere in there. And Sister, myself

and Sister Parker were sent here in August the 20th of 1974, to

help the Pembroke-Magnolia Branch here in Robeson County to teach

the people the true gospel of the Lord, Jesus Christ, and we have

had a lot of contacts here and we are still trying to make other
I' ii
contacts and we hope that we can bring the rue Church message

to the people here in the Pembroke area.

B: Well, that's fine. We're certainly happy to have you because, I'm

not only speaking for myself, but I know other people, a lot of

other people who show appreciation because of the interest of your

church in our people and of your interest personally. Could you

tell us something about you and Sister Parker? Biographical, where

you were born and your age and so on. I shouldn't ask the lady

her age.


.3: fd t fJ
P: Well, I'm originally from the state of Idaho on the eastern, south-

eastern area of Idaho called Rexburg, Idaho, and my wife is from

Tremonton, Utah. We were born and raised in the church. Our

parents were members of the church and we have worked in the church

a good number of years. Just recently in 1973, June the 30th, I

retired, and of course the state presidents of our state asked us

if we would like to go on a mission and to teach the gospel of the

Lord... )



jt ch e










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B: Mrs. Parker, if I ay, how did you two meet?

W: Our sisters married brothers and so naturally we met through them.

tt *e,, Oh, I just wanted to mention that there are other

missionaries here 9 -. s Gri S )

Flf i\C \ C_ and Elder Croup, two young elders.

They're also sitting here, and I just feel that these kids are

wonderful, e '-- [( C' / the church that you just feel, feel

good to get among the Indians because we do have so much of their

history that they can't help but recognize as true.

B: This is all interestingto me and I want to say that all the people

whom I've met have seemed so very devoted, you know. We do have a

lot of, as you mentioned a while ago I suppose, people who profess

to be Christians, but they haven't, profession of godliness )

*c y4 v^ t This is one thing, Elder Parker, that nobody

can say about the Mormons.

P: Well, we believe that a man must be called as Aaron was called that

the Lord through Moses, a prophet, called Aaron to the ministry so

that Aaron could do the work of the Lord in the Lord's name. It's

just the same as if I wanted to do your work, that is Mr. Barton,

if you wanted me to take care of your business I would have to get

a power of attorney in order to act in your stead. Now this authority,

what we call the authority is the priesthood of God to act in his

name. You remember in the Bible it says, "Ye have not chosen me, but










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I have chosen you and ordained you." He was talking to his apostles.

Well, he was giving them the authority to act in his name after he

was crucified here. Another thing, Mr. Barton, I'd like to say while

I'm talking here is that the president of our church, President

Spencer W. Campbell, is a very devoted man to the Indians. He is

"a champion of the Indians. He loves the Indians. He has worked

"a lot of his life for the Indians in Arizona and some of those big

Indian reservations in the Southwest and he always has loved the

Indians and he has done much to see that they would get the proper

recognition and the proper schooling. In fact he was instrumental
Phacewru ctk
in bringing.,what we call the Indian Pb&wer Program to where the

Indian children could go and live with these families and then go

to a good school and receive their education this way.

B: You said something a minute ago about, we said something I believe

that was, that we lost because of running out of tape, about the

work here. Did you say something about your father having worked

here a long time ago?

P: Yes, when my father was a young man of about twenty years of age he

was called on a mission to work here in the state of North Carolina.

He originally started out on r Island, but due to the perse-

cution and the hatred that was developed there among some of the

non-members he was driven off from this island. But before he

was driven off the island, the people on the island that hated the

Mormons burnt the church house down. Then he traveled on foot...

B: Yes.










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P: ...across the state of North Carolina. He was down in through this

area. He was in Fayetteville, Goldshoro, Greensboro, and he finally)

after his two years was up, he was in Asheville, North Carolina, where

he was given a honorable discharge from his work and he went home.

B: I see. That's terrible. Do you find, do you encounter any prejudice

and well, I know you encounter prejudice, any persecution or something

like this?

P: No, we, we do not find any persecution, but many people through their

peer pressure will remain with their other churches because they realize
o(
that when they change to the Chruch of Jesus Christ the Latter Day

Saints,that this means that they will have to leave their friends

and a lot of their groups that they have fondly had. Now we say

that this is a way of life. This is the way the savior wanted us

to be, to come follow me as he said.

B: Well, that's certainly interesting. You mentioned something about

showing some pictures. I want you to go ahead and say anything or

do anything that you like to say.

P: Well...

B: We'll record it all if I may.

P: Well, we'd have to watch the tape very close because this picture that

I'm showing you shows some of the ancient ruins down in South and

Central America. Some of the great feats that they did in building

some of these great temples and structures. There's a temple down,










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a pyramid down there that is twice the measurement of the greatest

pyramid in Egypt and they also have a pyramid that they have entered

into and they have found three other pyramids inside plus another

area big enough to build a ball field. They also have, on this

continent they build their temples different than they did in Egypt.

In Egypt they build them to an apex. Here they cut them off and

on top they build a beautiful temple on top of these pyramids down

there. Now they say that the pyramids were build in Egypt for

the dynasty of man. They were used to tombs and sepulchers and

places of this nature for the kings and rulers. But here on this

continent they built them to the, to their god. So every fifty-

two years they would build outwardly and up to show their Lord

that he, that this people had progressed in all things. And then

there's great fortresses that have been built down here. Another

wonderful, see in some of these here slides are, shows the, how they

developed the water system by drilling out circular tubes in rock on

one and then laying another rock on top of it, which they ground to

perfection and they have miles of these that are watering small

patches and areas in some of these ancient ruins. They traced in one

place a pipe line for seven miles, till it went down into a rock and

then it disappeared. But the pipe lines don't even _to this

day. They were great engineers in building irrigation canals--do you

have something?--building irrigation canals and some of these canals

are used today and they have not changed the gradient of them one bit.










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They have a highway down there that they built that runs for four

thousand miles in that country and it even shows a center line that

they put different colored rocks in the center so that the traffic

could, like today go on one side or the other. The highways were

thirty-three feet wide. They were built up beautifully along the

sides, but now after many centuries of sheeps and antelopes and lime

and so forth that have traveled over these rocks on the road, why

they cut out what you call the asphalt and the roads have kind of

deteriorated.

B: Well, this is certainly fascinating what you said about Cortez, the

Halls of Montezuma, old Mexico City. So many people don't realize

that the American Indian had a great civilization already. And

of course our being the smallest group of people in America I suppose

it naturally follows that we wouldn't have the attention which we

would have had we been a larger group and so on.

P: It seemed that the last great war)before the people broke up into

individual tribes, that there was much hatred and so the, as I said,

the people broke up into little individual tribes. People who would

have the same beliefs and same manners and so forth, and customs, they

would break up into small groups and this is what brought about the

various tribes of Indians upon the American continent. Now...

B: This is similar to the fall of Rome then,, isn't it? The city, the

city government, you know, when they, they had to build cities.










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When the, when they didn't have a common love, things to draw them

together)eventually Rome fell.

P: This is right. Rome, Rome at one time was known as one of the greatest

civilizations on the face of the earth and...

B: Right. &e ,

P: ... 11VJ athat time while the a great civilization)

this civilization on this continent was also breaking. But now as

you remember, as the Romans become rich and powerful, as the rich class

didn't pay taxes and the poor class couldn't pay taxes, so it fell

upon the middle class and when the middle class got taxed so heavy

they couldn't pay taxes and then is when the Roman empire fell, and

this is about the same way on this continent when the central govern-

ment was not powerful enough to hold the people together, then it

fell. And there was contention and much strife and wars.

B: Do you think that Cortez was attacked to Mexico City because of the

gold and all this? Do you think that perhaps he did have a genuine

religious interest in the Indians? I understand that the streets

of Mexico City at one time were actually gold.

P: Well, I don't know about that, but I do know in these pictures that

I have that there was one temple that was all fringed with gold inside.

But the vandals got in there now and destroyed the gold taking the gold

out for monetary value. I do have a picture here that shows the

Catholic cathedral that they took the gold out of the original temple

and decorated the Catholic cathedral which has over a million dollars

worth of gold in it, and it's really a beautiful structure. But I,









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I believe that Cortez was more or less when he first found these

people over there in Mexico, that it was more or less by chance

and you know, when Columbus first landed on the Ametican continent

he saw these people and the people were very friendly with them

and I'm sure that when Cortez came here they were looking for

gold evidentally because Spain at that time was a rich country

and a powerful country and they had much power and many men to

explore the seas. And this is what they did, and of course Cortez

I believe just luckily landed where he did and of course Montezuma

being the rich ruler he told him that he would fill a room so high

with gold and this is what he did, and Cortez saw that he could get

much gold out of these people and if he done the....we were talking

about how Montezuma said that he would fill a room up to a certain

mark with gold and this is what he did. And the Spanish exploited

the people at that time. They destroyed a lot of their culture and

they tried to make them worship as they worshiped. But they could

also remember the worship of their forefathers and they, it was very

hard for them, for the people coming from another land to change

their form of worship, like today the Indians down in this area worship

a Great White, a great spirit of some nature. Just recently the

Church of Jesus Christ, the Latter Day Saints has built a temple in

Washington, D. C. to service the area of the eastern part of the United

States, and here many sacred Dtf/ C1e and things are performed for

the faithful members of the church every year. ndian people, we believe
A









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are a choice children of the Lord and that if and when they do become

members of the true church of Jesus Christ they will become a very

Vdui !4c Aand industrious people, which it has been proven in

many instances that they have. We do know that the Book of Mormon

is the word of the Lord and is the story of the American Indian.

It's their religious history. It's the history that has been revealed

from the Lord to the prophets of these ancient people who recorded

it on gold plates, and through the instrumentality of Joseph Smith

and by the power and gift of God the Book of Mormons was translated

and this would tell you the true character and true nature and where

the American Indian first originated from.

B: Would you, would you tell us something about the program? Perhaps

some of the younger people might be attracted or maybe some of the

older ones, too. What kind of program do you havekO're- ?

P: We, we...

B: )s 1 L (A'H^Li

P: We believe that the church is a very active church. In order to be

a member of the Clurch of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, one

has to dedicate himself and become very active in order to receive

the blessing. Now we havejmany programs in the church. We start

put first on Sunday, that's the first day of the week. We have what

we call a priesthood meeting which gives us instructions each week

of the scriptures and also how to deal with our fellow men and to,

if there's any suffering within the CO f of the priesthood, this










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is all brought about through a business meeting, and we try to look

after all of our members of the church through the priesthood L .

Then we have our Sunday school which is the organization where we

go and various age groups, we are taught the gospel both from the

Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and Full of

Great Pride, which constitute our four standard scriptures. After

we have our Sunday school and the instruction of our people from the

age of three years old to ninety-nine or until they're no longer here,

we have what we call our sacrament meeting which we are commanded to

partake of the sacrament or to renew our covenants that made with

our father in heaven at the waters of baptism. As you recall when

Nicodemus came to the savior he said, "What must I do to be saved in

the kingdom of God, and the savior, "Unless you are born again."

Well, Nicodemus couldn't remember, couldn't understand why he had,

how he could be born again because he couldn't go back and be born

as a little child. Then it was when the savior said, "Unless you

are born of the water and of the spirit, no W_/_. can you enter

the kingdom of God." Well, we know that the savior instituted the

sacraments just before he was crucified because he said he broke

bread and gave it to his apostles and said, "Take in remembrance

of my broken body," and he blessed the cup of wine and said, "Drink,"

in remembrance of his blood. So each Sunday we partake of the sacraments

in remembrance of the Lord Jesus Christ of what he done for us. Now










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we do not say that the sacraments actually goes into the flesh and

blood of the savior, but it is a L.o U1 and by partaking of

the sacrament we renew our covenant that we made with the Lord at

baptism. First, that we have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, that

we would repent for our sins, that we'd be baptised by immersion

by one having authority, and then have the gift of the holy ghost

restored to us by the laying on of hands. Then during the week

we have what we call the Priesthood MIA program and this takes in

the young people from the age of twelve to twenty-five and here

they have many programs in speech, athletic contests, dances, parties,

they also have a period of instruction, but it's more or less the

activities group of our church. And we have another group in the

same organization that goes from twenty-five to, well, it's mainly

the adults and they have their entertainments and their instruction,

religious instruction during this period. They have outings, they

have celebrations, they have, well, you name it and we do it. And

then one day a week we have what we call the Primary Association

and this is the young children from the age of three till twelve,

and here they are taught the stories of the pioneer, the religious

instruction, too, and also an activity period. I didn't mention

about the women of the church, which we have, we call the 'Ii Society,

which was organized under the instruction of the prophet,Joseph Smith.

This is the organization of the women, and here they learn how to be

better homemakers. They learn their religious instruction here. They

study the scriptures and they study the cultures of other lands and










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how to better home life. You see, Mr. Barton, our church is a family

oriented church. We believe in the family being the center of all

organiza-, all organization. In fact the father is the head of the

family with his wife as the co-partner and...vice-president of, the

two of them head up the organization of the family, and here the

family is instructed in religious subjects again, here they can have

a council meeting so that they can understand and get better acquainted

with each other and they also plan outings and parties and travel

fees and so forth through this family organization. Well, a group

of families in a certain area are presided over what we call here

in Pembroke a branch president and his name is Willie Wynn and he

presides over a group of families. Then President Wynn is presided

over by what we call a state president who is over a group of wards

or branches. Then the general authorities in Salt Lake, the

prophets k ^_of our church is over the state.

In other words it's one continual line of authority from the prophet

himself or even from Christ himself, because President Campbell said

that he isn't the head of his church, he's the servant more or less

because Christ is the head of the church. As you know in Ephesians

2, 40, he says, "Now therefore you are no more foreigners or strangers

but fellow citizens of the same to the household of God being built

upon the foundations of apostles and prophets with Jesus Christ himself

the chief cornerstone in whom all the buildings fittly framed go

together into a whole new habitance unto the Lord. So we believe











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that there is a structure, that the Bible tells the blueprint of

the true church of Jesus Christ and if all men would do as Paul

says in Ephesians 4, 11, and 12, it says, "And he gave some apostles

and some prophets and some evangelists and some pastors and some

teachers for the professing of the saints, for the edifying, for

the work of the ministry, for the edifying the body of Christ until

all comes to the unity of the faith." Now this means that there's

only one church, that Christ set up only one church and he had it

organized. In the Bible there's a blue print telling how Christ's

church was originally built and this is what we must get back to.

W: I just want you to know, Brother Barton, that this has been a real

privilege and honor to be here today in your home and we're very

proud of this privilege, and we to thank you. I call you Brother

Barton because we believe that we are all truly brothers and sisters

of the Lord, and thank you again.

P: And I want to thank you for the privilege we've had for explaining

the gospel of Lord Jesus Christ and we do know that it is something

that the Lord wants to do and we enjoy doing it. We are here for

this one purpose only, is to teach the gospel of the Lord Jesus

Christ and any opportunity that we can have to do it we know that

these people, your people are really God's children, that they have

a purpose here for much happiness and that the Lord does love all of

his children because he tells the same story to every person, not










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just one nation but to every nation. He even told them here on this

continent, he says, "Other people I have that are not of this fold,"

and he meant not the people in Jerusalem but other people, and he

always goes to his people. And the Lord loves us and wants us to

be happy and this is why we want to teach all people, the Lord said this

for all his children and we can't get away from it. Thank you again

for this opportunity.

B: Well, I want to thank you and Mrs. Parker. It's been a most delightful

and enlightening interview and I'm sure that many people will be

blessed by this interview today. I'm just overwhelmed. I've enjoyed

it. You make, you make things so clear, Elder Parker. You have this

great gift of simplifying things and I think that's because you love

your church so much and you're so close to your work and you do have

this great gift and I think it's from the Lord and we want to thank

you. I want to you thank you for myself personally and also I want

to thank you for the University of Florida's history department for

sharing these things with us on this tape today. Thank you very much.

PAGE 1

LUM 197A INTERVIEWEE: Elder and Mrs. John Parker SUBJECT: Lew Barton September,10, 1974 dib r/4/l/t/5cle/~tt:J tc(.:fo/76 J /,? t tf:: ~/C,C; c11.~ B: This is September 10, 1974. This is Lew Barton interviewing for the University of Florida's History Department's American Indian Oral History Programl This afternoon I am in the home of Mr. and Mrs. Redell Collins near Red Springs, North Carolina. It's nearer Creshannon actually and with me is Elder and Mrs. John Parker, P-a-r k-e-r, who have kindly consented to give me an interview. In this interview they give an explanation of the only Christian church to originate in America and say something about how it relates to the American Indian. They also speak of work of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints among the Lumbee Indians of Robeson County. They have a church in Pembroke and one near Magnolia in Robeson County. And they do have a special interest in Indian people. This is the only church, the only Christian church which revolves around the American Indian. They regard the American Indian as God's chosen people for these Latter Days and they base it upon the scripture which says, I think this is a quote by Jesus, "I have other sheep and these I must also bring," and some of this recording has been lost because it was accidentally erased, but much of it is still intact.For purposes of this study, that is the American Indian Oral History Program, our interest is not necessarily in this particular v:ew 1 ~r_{.e denomination from a religious point of~ ia-eVhut because of its historic implications and the interesting, the very, very fascinating

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LUM 197A Page 2. dib really, series of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints or as it is popularly known, the Mormon Chruch. The Mormons as they are popularly known, accept the Bible as sacred writ, but they also accept~e~ o,! Mormon. The Book of Mormon, said to .901&.eD have been found in America in the form of golden plates, -'guitl plates which still exist today and Joseph Smith, whom they regard as a prophet, is supposed to have translated some of this Book of Mormon -----or he has supposed, he is supposed to have translated the golden plates that were found in America, and this is what is called the Book of Mormon. Joseph Smith was eventually murdered because of -his beliefs and in history we read about Brigham Young. The Mormons are very strong in the state of Utah. They go into the various Indian C, V\ v..f"C "' connnunities and work and set up the eftttrcl,: as well as possible and do much of their work j r~ +1•~ , that is most of it if not all of it they pay their own expenses and so forth. One of the most interesting features of their beliefs hinges on fact which they say is irrefutable fact that among all groups of American Indians there was this belief in the coming of a messiah which they might not have called a messiah at all. They might have called him by some other name according to their own language, but it is very, very intriguing to realize that among these various groups of American Indians there were traditions and the~e were people looking forward to the coming of a messiah whose name may have varied from tribe to tribe. But this lends great credence to the Mormon doctrine. I became interested in the Mormons because of their great interest in the history of the American Indian. ___ __J

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LUM 197A Page 3. dib Naturally since their religion hinges on the American Indian they have taken great pains to do great research and make archaeological studies, everything of, that was available to them• Therefore their interest in the history of the American Indian is greater than that of any other religious group simply because of this fact and simply because-of this belief that the American Indian is the chosen people of God for these Latter Days. Whether you subscribe to the Mormon belief or not{I'm not a Mormon myself. I'm a Missionary Baptist), but whether you believe this or not or whether you subscribe to the Mormon religion or not the historical sphere of the Mormons is fascinating and these are genuine archaeological findings. These are genuine thingsfso far as it goes. Of course they tie it on to this tradition. They explain how Cortez performed this miraculous feat almost, well, it was miraculous or it was almost magic how he captured Mexico City, and the reason for this, according to the Mormons is that they regarded Cortez and his people as gods and they didn't dare resist. They accepted them as gods for a time and consequently were just about wiped out, you know. This is very, very ironic. I remember as a child reading in the history books of American history and reading about some of the Indians running, turning and running in terror at the approach of some of these Cortez people and I was made to feel very much ashamed of this because according to these books my people were cowards and there was something that didn't ring

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LUM 197A Page 4. dib true in this whole thing because living among my people and with my people all my life I knew they certainly were not cowardly. But I was, I was made to feel very badly as I did as a child, and I resolved that when I grew up I would study and do something about it. I would find, first of all I wanted to find out the truth about my people. But you say, you see what a great difference there is in the interpretation of one group and another. Of course the American Indians were not cowards any more than all American Indians are lazy and shiftless or are all alcoholics. This simply does not hold true. At any rate I am very proud to present much of this explanation as we have left on the American Indian and how he fits into the religious program, the overall program I mean. Now I'm sure you will be fascinated even as I was as you listen to John Parker, Elder John Parker relate some of these interesting things to us. Incidentally this was the last tape, interview tape in Robeson County, North Carolina, after which we moved over here to Baltimore, Maryland, and pursued our interviewing over here. There will be a brief portion of this tape on which there is no sound, but we invite you to travel the tape forward until you resume\the sound again, and the first voice you hear speaking will be that of Elder John Parker, who as I said earlier is attached to, of the two churches of Latter Day Saints of Jesus Christ in Robeson County, North Carolina. Elder Parker tells me that his father was in the Lumbee Indian Community from sixty-nine years ago and I understand that he also worked on the coast of North Carolina

PAGE 5

LUM 197A Page 5. dib Proper and unfortunately there encountered some pretty severe persecu tion on the part of people who disagreed with the Mormon doctrine. There is much prejudice toward this particular religious group and it's often claimed that they advocate multiple marriages. Of course the United States Supreme Court ruled at one time in our history, you know, against multiple marriages even among religious people, and so the Mormons did fall into disrepute because of this in certain quarters at one time in our history. But this should not detract from the historical work which this work has done. The archaeological findings and all the rest of it, and so I am recommending that you listen to this not from a religious point of view but from a point of view of pure history or series regarding history, Indian traditions and the rest of it. I believe historians like all other scientist, should take their information wherever they may find it and pursue it because often Indian traditions lead to historical findings and things that can actually be proved. Indian traditions are amazingly accurate, in some cases more accurate than the written page because people handed these traditions down from generation to generation. These were important things that people felt that their children should know about and so they preserved them in this particular way. P: legends of the Great White Father coincides with this same legend that the American Indian have here in this country. This is truly a history of the American Indian and how they became a mighty people

PAGE 6

LUM 197A Page 6. dib upon this continent. But due to their iniquities and their proud living and forgetting the Lord they soon become an extinct or a fallen people because they didn't worship the Lord as he should. Now after the~vior appeared to the American Indians they lived righteously and became a very wealthy and prosperous nation. They built great cities, they knew about surgery because they have found in South America today surgical instruments that will perform the most delicate operation on the brain that they've ever found. They've also found other materials of hardened copper, so hard they said that they found a chisel that was so hard that they couldn't touch it with our modern day file. They also found sheets of gold written upon that had a form of Egyptian, but they call it a reformed Egyptian language. They have found that they were great workers in gold. Many beautiful ornaments and golden trinkets and jewelery and things of this nature. They have found that they were great artisans in the working of gold. They built large cities. They even knew astro nomy. They had a, they found one building down there, they call it the astronomy building where they, it was laid out in such a way that they could study the stars and they knew all about the universe. They had other types of buildings, a ball field which they played a game, and the hoop was a ring that they would kick the ball through, was about twenty-eight feet off in the ground. They were great sportsmen. They loved to show their feats of strength and they must have been quite a large, well-developed physical specimen of an

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LUM 197A Page 7. dib athlete. They had all types of buildings with sacred baths and baptismal ponds; and some of the legends and some of the things wifl that the Indians have todayfate back to these people. It is believed by some archaeologiststhat what we call the Leehighmanen/:s_f_C.J was the Inca and what we call the Mulekites would be the Mayan and what the Jeradite nations that landed would call, they would 1o (t--e.e~call the ~elteca. Now these here they have definitely found in these ancient ruins, these various periods of time of the American Indian. Many people wonder why Cortez when he landed on this conti nent was accepted so fully by the Indians. Because they, when the savior was here with them prior he told them that he would return ~gain, and so they were watching and waiting_for the Great White God that had appeared to them before to come back again. Now Cortez had a hundred and seventy-five men it is known in history. He had all kinds of weapons of war. But there was a great multitude of people in this area and due to the type of implements of war that they had they could-have killed the ~people if they wanted to rush Cortez and destroy him. But they didn't want to destroy Cortez because they thought that he was the Great White Father, and they laid down all their armaments and various war-making tools and Cortez ruled them with an iron hand. Now Cortez destroyed a lot of their beautiful temples that they had buil,t, and in one valley there's a temple for every day of the year, three hundred and sixty five temples and Cortez destroyed every one of these temples and

PAGE 8

--------------------------------------------LUM 197A Page 8. dib built a Catholic cathedral in it's stead. Not only did these people here on this land look for a Great White Father, but the people in the Samoan Islands also looked for a white supreme being, and when Captain Cook went .into the islands, the South Sea Islands, and landed, he landed at one of their great festivals, and when he landed they thought he also was the Great White God. But due to his underhanded ness and the way he treated the natives they decided that he was not the white god and so they killed Captain Cook on these islands. Now) s.pefl+, n footnote fill Mulek is spelled M-u-1-e-k, and Ishmael is .i,ilJwd)~('.~peJr~tt) Is-h-m-a-e-1. In the Book of Mormon it tells about the Book of Mormon and I'd like to read from Ezekiel, 37, verses 15-19. "The word of the Lord came again unto me saying, "More was thou son of man, take thee one stick and write upon it for Judah and for the children of Israel, his companion. Then take another stick and write upon it, "For Joseph, the stick of Ephram and for all the house of Israel, his companion, and joing them one to another in to one stick and they shall become one in my hands." Many people do not understand what these words mean in the Bible. They have no idea whatsoever. Well, through the revelation given to the Lord through the prophet, Joseph Smith, we have found out that the stick of Judah is the Bible and this gives the history of the Jewish people. Now a stick that the Jews wrote upon was sort of a scroll(?_
PAGE 9

LUM 197A Page 9. dib Now many people have wondered where the stick of Joseph is. Well, the Book of Mormon tells about the descendents of Ephram or the stick of Joseph. Now many wonder what, who Joseph was in this here paragraph. 'He was the son of Jacob that was sold into Egypt ..:S::-s~}tt" and there he became a mighty ruler. Also in i:s:i=h, chapter 29, verse 1-4, it states, "Woe_to Arial, woe to Arial, the city where David dwelled. Add to years to years, let them kill, sacrifice. Yet I will distress Arial and there shall be heaviness and sorrow and it shall be unto me as Arial, and I will camp against thee year. ~~'JC!?. 11--R /)1 OfA I\ +round about and will lay against thee with _____ and I will raise forth againstthee and thou shall be brought down and shall speak out of the ground and thy speech shall be low out of the dust and thy voice shall be as one that have a familiar spirit out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust." We believe this is the Book of Mormon because it did come out of the ground. It was written upon gold plates and then translated by the power and gift of God through the prophet, Joseph Smith. -n:,o Now in the last verse it says, " and they :1;lil:'I,' shall be one in my hand." We believe the Book of Mormon and the Bible are the stick of judah and the stick of Ephram and that two of them in our hand gives us the complete doctrine of the Lord, Jesus Christ. "Many people will say, 'and because my word shall hiss forth many of the gentiles shall say, "A Bible, a Bible, we have got a Bible and there can be no more Bibles. Wherefore," mumuring he, "because we, that we have shall receive more of my word? No ye not that the testimony of

PAGE 10

LUM 197A Page 10. dib two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, that I remember one nation like unto another? Wherefore, I speak the same words unto one nation like unto another, and when the two nations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also." We believe this testimony of the two nations is the Bible, for it would speak of the nation of the Jewish people, and the other nation is the nation of the Nephites and Lamenites here upon the American continent, and the two of them run together and testify of the truth fulness of the Lord, Jesus Christ. Now we do not claim as Mormons that the Book of Mormon replaces:, the Bible or the Bible replaces the Book of Mormon. We say that it testifies, the Book of Mormon testifies of the truthfulnes of the Bible and the Bible will testify the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon and"the two in my hands will give us the true light and doctrine of the Lord Jesus Christ." I do know and I can testify that I do know that these things that we have told you today are true. B: Thank you so very much:Elder Parker. That is certainly enlightening and fascinating. Could we, could I ask you a question or two about the work here tn Pe~broke? How, would you tell us something about the work and how it's going or something about the history of the woPk he~e in Pembroke? P: Well, I can't tell you just exactly when they first put missionaries in here, but it has been some time ago. I do recall that my father spent two years here about sixty-nine years ago, and when the missionary

PAGE 11

LUM 197A Page 11. dib work started in this part of the area I cannot say 1 for sure. But it has been back prior to 1890, somewhere in there. And Sister, myself and Sister Parker were sent here in August the 20th of 1974, to help the Pembroke-Magnolia Branch here in Robeson County to teach the people the true gospel of the Lord, Jesus Christ, and we have had a lot of contacts here and we are still trying to make other ,, ,, contacts and we hope that we can bring the True (hurch message to the people here in the Pembroke area. B: Well, that's fine. We're certainly happy to have you because, I'm not only speaking for myself, but I know othere people, a lot of other people who show appreciation because of the interest of your church in our people and of your interest personally. Could you tell us something about you and Sister Parker? Biographical, where you were born and your age and so on. I shouldn't ask the lady W: 8: P: he'l'.:' age. :,:ac:.;/t.--.~c,,,.J Fhi ! /.Ii. !' . Well, I'm originally from the state of Idaho on the eastern, southeastern area of Idaho called Rexburg, Idaho, and my wife is from Tremonton, Utah. We were born and raised in the church. Our parents were members of the church and we have worked in the church a good number of years. Just recently in 1973, June the 30th, I retired, and of course the state presidents of our state asked us if we would like to go on a mission and to teach the gospel of the -----------------------------------------------

PAGE 12

LUM 197A Page 12. dib B: M~Y Mrs. Parker, if I all1/', how did you two meet? W: Our sisters married brothers and ~o naturally we met through them. ~J tt1 Oh, I just wanted to mention that there are other missionaries here : f}-z,.b\.. "3n1MJ-e1 ! )..$,:} '? d: •t'' I .j f2 n' /,,........_ C; +;; and Elder Croup, two young elders. They're also sitting here, and I just feel that these kids are wonderful r:~. (; C.C)C /.' the church that you just feel, feel good to get among the Indians because we do have so much of their history that they can't help but recognize as true. B: This is all inteif.esting! to me and I want to say that all the people whom I've met have seemed so very devoted, you know. We do have a lot of, as you mentioned a while ago I suppose, people who profess to be Christians, but they haven't, profession of godliness J~-+~-o ___ _ .-{;f f c:,-vJ f:/...,vf. This is one thing, Elder Parker, that nobody can say about the Mormons. P: Well, we believe that a man must be called as Aaron was called that the Lord through Moses, a prophet, called Aaron to the ministry so that Aaron could do the work of the Lord in the Lord's name. It's just the same as if I wanted to do your work, that is Mr. Barton, if you wanted me to take care of your business I would have to get power of attorney in order to act in your stead. Now this authority, what we call the authority is the priesthood of God to act in his name. You remember in the Bible it says, "Ye have not chosen me, but . \.

PAGE 13

LUM 197A Page 13.
PAGE 14

LUM 197A Page 14. dib P: .•. across the state of North Carolina. He was down in through this area. He was in Fayetteville, Goldshoro, Greensboro, and he finally) after his two years was up, he was in Asheville, North Carolina, where he was given a honorable discharge from his work and he went home. B: I see. That's terrible. Do you find, do you encounter any prejudice and well, I know you encounter prejudice, any persecution or something like this? P: No, we, we do not find any persecution, but many people through their peer pressure will remain with their other churches because they realize of that when they change to the Chruch of Jesus Christl\the Latter Day Saints,that this means that they will have to leave their friends and a lot of their groups that they have fondly had. Now we say that this is a way of life. This is the way the savior wanted us to be, to come follow me as he said. B: Well, that's certainly interesting. You mentioned something about showing some pictures. I want you to go ahead and say anything or )~ do anything that you like to say. P: Well. B: We'll record it all if I may. P: Well, we'd have to watch the tape very close because this picture that I'm showing you shows some of the ancient ruins down in South and Central America. Some of the great feats that they did in building some of these great temples and structures. There's a temple down,

PAGE 15

LUM 197A dib a pyramid down there that is twice the measurement of the greatest pyramid in Egypt and they also have a pyramid that they have entered into and they have found three other pyramids inside plus another area big enough to build a ball field. They also have, on this continent they build their temples different than they did in Egypt. In Egypt they build them to an apex. Here they cut them off and on top they build a beautiful temple on top of these pyramids down there. Now they say that the pyramids were build in Egypt for the dynasty of man. They were used to tombs and sepulchers and places of this nature for the kings and rulers. But here on this continent they built them to the, to their god. So every fiftytwo years they would build outwardly and up to show their Lord that he, that this people had progressed in all things. And then there's great fortresses that have been built down here. Another wonderful, see in some of these here slides are, shows the, how they developed the water system by drilling out circular tubes in rock on one and then laying another rock on top of it, which they ground to perfection and they have miles of these that are watering small patches and areas in some of these ancient ruins. They traced in one place a pipe line for seven miles, till it went down into a rock and then it disappeared. But the pipe lines don't even /e,a,/( to this day. They were great engineers in building irrigation canals~-do you have something?--building irrigation canals and some of these canals are used today and they have not changed the gradient of them one bit.

PAGE 16

LUX 197A Page 16. dib They have a highway down there that they built that runs for four thousand miles in that country and it even shows a center line that they put different colored rocks in the center so that the traffic could, like today go on one side or the other. Tpe highways were thirty-three feet wide. They were built up beautifully along the 1l~rt1A.S sides, but now after many centuries of sheeps and antelopes and~ and so forth that have traveled over these rocks on the road, why they cut out what you call the asphalt and the roads have kind of deteriorated. B: .Well, this is certainly fasc.inating what you said about Cortez, the Halls of Montezuma, old Mexico City. So many people don't realize that the American Indian had a great civilization already. And of course our being the smallest group of people in America I suppose it naturally follows that we wouldn't have the attention which we would have had we been a larger group and so on. P: It seemed that the last great war)before the people broke up into individual tribes, that there was much hatred and so the, as I said, the people broke up into little individual tribes. People who would have the same beliefs and same manners and so forth, and customs, they would break up into small groups and this is what brought about the various tribes of indians upon the American continent. Now B: Th.is is similar to the fall of Rome then,, isn't it? The city, the city government, you know, when they, they had to build cities.

PAGE 17

LUM 197A Page 17. dib When the, when they didn't have a connnon love, things to draw them together,eventually Rome fell. P: This is right. Rome, Rome at one time was known as one of the greatest civilizations on the face of the earth and B: P: Right. n 1 J1.. 6 UI f, fl J L f{Al,f w; bti I,,; ,vJ r, <.X, •Clt'\T at that time) while the ~S great civilization, this civilization on this continent was also breaking. But now as you remember, as the Romans become rich and powerful, as the rich class didn't pay taxes and the poor class couldn't pay taxes, so it fell upon the middle class and when the middle class got taxed so heavy they couldn't pay taxes and then is when .the Roman empire fell, and this is about the same way on this continent when the central govern ment was not powerful enough to hold the people together, then it fell. And there was contention and much strife and wars. B: Do you think that Cortez was attracked to Mexico City because of the gold and all this? Do you think that perhaps he did have a genuine religious interest in the Indians? I understand that the streets of Mexico City at one time were actually gold. P: Well, I don't know about that, but I do know in these pictures that I have that there was one temple that was all fringed with gold inside. But the vandals got in there now and destroyed the gold taking the gold out for monetary value. I do have a picture here that shows the Catholic cathedral that they took the gold out of the original temple and decorated the Catholic cathedral which has over a million dollars worth of gold in it, and it's really a beautiful structure. But I,

PAGE 18

LUM 197A Page 18. dib I believe that Cortez was more or less when he first found these here. people over "tiTere ~n Mexico, that it was more or less by chance and you know, when Columbus first landed on the Ametican continent he saw these people and the people were very friendly with them and I'm sure that when Cortez came here they were looking for gold evidentally because Spain at that time was a rich country and a powerful country and they had much power and many men to explore the seas. And this is what they did, and of course Cortez I believe just luckily landed where he did and of course Montezuma being the rich ruler he told him that he would fill a room so high with gold and this is what he did, and Cortez saw that he could get much gold out of these people and if he done the we were talking about how Montezuma said that he would fill a room up to a certain mark with gold and this is what he did. And the Spanish exploited the people at that time. They destroyed a lot of their culture and they tried to make them worship as they worshiped. But they could also remember the worship of their forefathers and they, it was very hard for them, for the people coming from another land to change the.fr form of worship, like today the Indians down in this area worship a Great White, a great Spi~it of some nature. Just recently the Church of Jesus Christ, the Latter Day Saints has built a temple in Washington, D. C. to service the area of the eastern. part of the United States, and here many sacred orJl t\tl\1\le~ and things are performed for the faithful members of the church every year~ndian people, we believe /l

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LUM 197A Page 19. dib are a choice children of the Lord and that if and when they do become members of the true church of Jesus Christ they will become a very ~(\~:&t and industrious people, which it has been proven in many instances that they have. We do know that the Book of Mormon is the word of the Lord and is the story of the American Indian. It's their religious history. It's the history that has been revealed from the Lord to the prophets of these ancient people who recorded it on gold plates, and through the instrumentality of Joseph Smith and by the power and gift of Qod the Book of Mormons was translated and this would tell you the true character and true nature and where the American Indian first originated from. B: Would you, would you tell us something about the program? Perhaps some of the younger people might be attracted or maybe some of the older ones, too. What kind of program do you have_f\---'--e,~[_
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LUM 197.A. Page 20. dib is all brought about through a business meeting, and we try to look ,,.~(;DS after all of our members of the church through the priesthood f....V Then we have our Sunday school which is the organization where we go and various age groups, we are taught the gospel both from the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and Full of Great Pride, which constitute our four standard scriptures. After we have our Sunday school and the instruction of our people from the age of three years old to ninety-nine or until they're no longer here, we have what we call our sacrament meeting which we are commanded to partake of the sacrament or to renew our covenants that made with our father in heaven at the waters of baptism. As you recall when N:i.codemus came to the savior he said, "What must I do to be saved in the kingdom of God," and the savior, "Unless you are born again." Well, Nicodemus couldn't remember, couldn't understand why he had, how he could be born again because he couldn't go back and be born as a little child. Then it was when the savior said, "Unless you W' ( ,..,,,,, are born of the water and of the spirit, no ...H:".'.._ can you enter ---"-"'---=---the kingdolll. of God." Well, we know that the savior instituted the sacraments just before he was crucified because he said he broke bread and gave it to his apostles and said, "Take (J,.tJ.e;_~\emembrance of my broken body," and he blessed the cup of wine and said, "Drink," in remembrance of his blood. So each Sunday we partake of the sacraments in remembrance of the Lord Jesus Christ of what he done for us. Now

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LUM 197A Page 21. dib we do not say that the sacraments actually: goes.into the flesh and 1 ~ "'1 '• t 1A/1,11\f)([\ti blood of the savior, but it is a •t•'-4./ •l and by partaking of the sacrament we renew our covenant that we made with the Lord at baptism. First, that we have faith in •i.:he Lord Jesus Christ, that we would repent for our sins, that we'd be baptised by innnersion by one having authority, and then have the gift of the holy ghost restored to us by the laying on of hands. Then during the week we have what we call the Priesthood MIA program and this takes in the young people from the age of twelve to twenty-five and here they have many programs in speech, athletic contests, dances, parties, they also have a period of instruction, but it's more or less the activities group of our church. And we have another group in the same organization that goes from twenty-five to, well, it's mainly the adults and they have their entertainments and their instruction, religious instruction during this period. They have outings, they have celebrations, they have, well, you name it and we do it. And then one day a week we have what we call the Primary Association and this is the young children from the age of three till twelve, and here they are taught the stories of the pioneer, the religious instruction, too, and also an activity period. I didn't mention about the women of the church, which we have, we call the Relief society, which was organized under the instruction of the prophet,Joseph Smith. This is the organization of the women, and here they learn how to be better homemakers. They learn their religious instruction here. They study the scriptures and they study the cultures of other lands and

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LUM 197A Page 22. dib how to better home life. You see, Mr. Barton, our church is a family oriented church. We believe in the family being the center of all organiza-, all organization. In fact the father is the head of the family with his wife as the co-partner and vice-president of, the two of them head up the organization of the family, and here the family is instructed in religious subjects again, here they can have a council meeting so that they can understand and get better acquainted with each other and they also plan outings and parties and travel fees and so forth through this family organization. Well, a group of families in a certain area are presided over what we call here in Pembroke a branch president and his name is Willie Wynn and he presides over a group of families. Then President Wynn is presided over by what we call a state president who is over a group of wards or branches. Then the general authorities in Salt Lake, the I f'~\Je fo. +~ l:',, prophets V)er-e Ill of our church is over the state. In other words it's one continual line of authority from the prophet himself or even from Christ himself, because President Campbell said that he isn't the head of his church, he's the servant more or less because Christ is the head of the church. As you know in Ephesians l ~--zo, 2, ~, he says, "Now the ref ore you are no more foreigners or strangers but fellow citizens of the same to the household of God being built upon the foundations of apostles and prophets with Jesus Christ himself the chief cornerstone in whom all the buildings fittly framed go ">) together into a whole new habitance unto the Lord. So we believe

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LUM 197A Page 23. dib that there is a structure, that the Bible tells the blueprint of the true church of Jesus Christ and if all men would do as Paul says in Ephesians 4, 11, and 12, it says, "And he gave some apostles and some prophets and some evangelists and some pastors and some teachers for the professing of the saints, for the edifying, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying the body of Christ until all comes to the unity of the faith." Now this means that there's only one church, that Christ set up only one church and he had it organized. In the Bible there's a blue print telling how Christ's church was originally built and this is what we must get back to. W: I just want you to know, Brother Barton, that this has been a real p~ivilege and honor to be here today in your home and we're very proud of this privilege, and we to thank you. I call you Brother Barton because we believe that we are all truly brothers and sisters of t~e Lord, and thank you again. P: And I want to thank you for the privilege we've had for explaining the gospel of Lord Jesus Christ and we do know that it is something that the Lord wants to do and we enjoy doing it. We are here for this one purpose only, is to teach the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and any opportunity that we can have to do it we know that these people, you~ people are really God's children, that they have purpose here for much happiness and that the Lord does love all of his children because he tells the same story to every person, not

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LUM 197A Page 24. dib just one nation but to every nation. He even told them here on this continent, he says, "Other people I have that are not of this fold," and he meant not the people in Jerusalem but other people, and he always goes to his people. And the Lord loves us and wants us to be happy and this is why we want to teach all people, the Lord said this for all his children and we can't get away from it. Thank you again for this opportunity. B: Well, I want to thank you and Mrs. Parker. It's been a most delightful and enlightening interview and I'm sure that many people will be blessed by this interview today. I'm just overwhelmed. I've enjoyed it. You make, you make things so clear, Elder Parker. You have this great gift of simplifying things and I think that's because you love your church so much and you're so close to your work and you do have this great gift and I think it's from the Lord and we want to thank you. I want to you thank you for myself personally and also I want to thank you for the University of Florida's history department for sharing these things with us on this tape today. Thank you very much. --~~----------------------------------------------'