Title: Interview with Ester Ann Richardson (July 2, 1974)
Full Citation
Permanent Link: http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00007172/00001
 Material Information
Title: Interview with Ester Ann Richardson (July 2, 1974)
Physical Description: Book
Language: English
Publication Date: July 2, 1974
Spatial Coverage: Lumbee County (Fla.)
Funding: This text has been transcribed from an audio or video oral history. Digitization was funded by a gift from Caleb J. and Michele B. Grimes.
 Record Information
Bibliographic ID: UF00007172
Volume ID: VID00001
Source Institution: Samuel Proctor Oral History Program, Department of History, University of Florida
Holding Location: This interview is part of the 'Lumbee County' collection of interviews held by the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program of the Department of History at the University of Florida
Rights Management: All rights reserved by the source institution and holding location.
Resource Identifier: LUM 195

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Full Text


This Oral History is copyrighted by the Interviewee
and the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program on
behalf of the Board of Trustees of the University of

Copyright, 2005, University of Florida.
All rights, reserved.

This oral history may be used for research,
instruction, and private study under the provisions
of Fair Use. Fair Use is a provision of United States
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Fair use limts the amount of material that may be

For all other permissions and requests, contact the
the University of Florida

Russ Hyden 1 LUM 195 A

B: This is July 2, 1974. I'm Lew Barton, interviewing for the University

of Florida's History Department's American Indian Oral History Program.

This afternoon, we are near Hollister, North Carolina, and we are in

the home of, would you tell us your mother's name, please, dear?

F: My grandparents?

B: Your home, here. Where are we right now?

F: Mrs. ?OIC'44Si/g house?

B: Right. What is your name?

F: Esther Ann Richardson.

B: How old are you?

F: Twelve.

B: What do you want me to call you?

F: Faye.

B: Faye? Okay, I'll aall you Faye. Faye, are you in school?

F: Yes sir.

B: What grade are you in?

F: I passed to the seventh.

B: You passed to the seventh this past year?

F: Yes, sir.

B: Do you go? You don't go to an Indian school anymore, do you?

F: (inaudible)

B: We used.....we used to go to Indian schools, black schools and white

schools, and now they're all integrated, aren't they?

F: Yes, sir.

B: And you go to a....what they call an integrated school. Where do you

Ua.rk( l

2 LUM 195 A

F: J f' b 1 Elementary School.

B: Did you used to go to A?//Owvn Indian School, didn't you?

F: No, sir.

B: You never did go there?

F: No, sir.

B: But you know they did have a school there, but you weren't old enough

to go then, were you?

F: Well, I was old enough, but I started to another school.

B: You were going to another school.

F: Yes, sir.

B: What is your, would you tell me about your mommy, and your daddy and

your sisters and brothers?

F: Well, uh, let's see. I have three sisters. One named Lisa, and the

other one's Kim, and the other one's CO/, ?. And my momma's

name is Nancy, and my daddy's name is Odom. And I have a little

half-brother named Adam. And I have a little half-sister named


B: How about your last name, e ?

F: #ual nelf97e) e4S
B: (Inaudible)

F: (naudible)

B: Now, could you give me their ages?

F: Lisa is eight. Kim is six. And Paula is four. And Marsha is two. And

Adam is about ten months old.

B: m- How about you?

F: I'm twelve.

B: You're twelve. That's a nice age to be, isn't it?

F: Well, it's okay.

3 LUM 195 A

B: You want to be older or younger? Or, do you wish you weren't as

old as you are?

F: Well, it's a hard decision because if I was older, I wauld be wishing

that I was younger. And if I was real young, I would be wishing I

was real old(

B: I guess we're never really satisfied, are we?

F: Sir

B: We're all that way, aren't we?

F: Um hm.

B: What's your favorite course in school? What do you like, one of your

courses that, like English?

F: Reading.

B: Reading?

F: Yes sir.

B: What are some of the things that you enjoy reading best?

F: Well, I like to read stories about, well stories about God xtyI .e

I like to read most stories about God, then I like to read adventure

stories /] e __ or something.

B: WxskEfx Where.......do you go to church?

F: Yes sir.

B: Where do you go, .... ?

F: I go to St., ah, Moint'Gideon .. Church.

B: Do you hwe a pretty good Sunday School? Pretty good sized Sunday

School over there? /

F: Well k .1 if /'. : You know, we don't have

a...... 4...., it's about eighty or ninety ^

j-\ i.

4 LUM 195 A

B: That's a good size. I mean a good Sunday School. You might have a,

you might get to a hundred after a while.

F: I hope so.

B: Do you go' every Sunday?

F: Not exactly. Almost.

B: Are you a little lazy?about going to church on Sunday? I couldn't

ASk you that, could I? Maybe that't not a fair question. Do you

like to go to Sunday School?

F: Yes sir.

B: How about school?

F: Well, it's okay. I love to go to school, but I hate getting up in

the morning.

B: Are you, are you proud to be an Indian?

F: Yes, sir. Well, Id don't really like it.

B: You've never been anything else, so you couldn't really say. That..

maybe that's not a fair question to ask, is it? I think Indian

people are wonderful.

F: Thank you.

B: I'm glad to be one, too. What kind of hobbies, what do youdo, what

do you like to do best?

F: Well,I like to sew. I like to read. I like to sing and play instru-

ments. Well, I love to play4sometimes) Yes.

B: You like to work once in a while, but not too often. What kind of

grades do you make?

F: Well, I make ., good grades, every year, so far. I haven't

failed a year. I made some, you know, A's and the lowest one that I

got is a C.

B: And you're going to be in the............you said you finished the

the seventh, didn't you?

5 LUM 195 A

F: No, I passed to the seventh, you know. And this year when I go back,

I'll be in the seventh.

B: I see. Do you like English?

F: I like it some, but I get mixed up in the verbs and stuff.

B: Do yolsing?

F: Yes, sir.

B: Would you sing me something?

F: The whole thing?

B: You don't have an instrument, do you?

F: No, sir. But I can sing without one.

B: Okay, that would be fine.

F: Want me to give you the name of it?

B: Um hm. What kind of songs do you like best?

F: Well, I like to sing Christian songs, you know. You know, clean songs.

I don't the rock.

B: You don't like the...?

F: I like a few of them, not much.

B: What are some of the one's you do like?

F: Well, that's hard to decide. Uh, let me see. I like some songs like...

I don't really know. It's hard....it's athard decision. I like some

of them that tell about people's /_ __ or something. But I

don't like the ones that ah, all this uh, 1y rock and roll,

and soul music and Pii g up and down and 4 pLr i

B: You don't go for that, do you?

F: No sir.

B: I see. Well, what you going to sing for us?

6 LUM 195 A

F: Uh, I'm going to sing a song MQV fr6 4! ?

B: Um hmm. That's good. Just pitch right in any time you feel like


F: Ooobo hope. There's a beautiful home.

Ooooo high. Yes, my Lord.

Lord I wonder, will I ever

Go home for the Son.

In another year. I'll know dear Lord

Dead and gone. But lord I wonder

Will I ever go home

Goooo home. There's a beautiful home.

Ooooo home. Yes, my Lord.

Lord I wonder, will I ever Lord1

Go home.

B: Hey, I like that. Xat axiaakikt EiXKK.I like that very much.

F: Thank you.

B: here did youlearn that?

F: Well, uh, one his MJ s / 5 y parents

And they had this record, and it had this song on there and I kept

listening to it and they kept playing it over and over and it was

a Christian song. And I liked it so much that I started, you know,

studying on it, and I got the hand of it singing it, and then, my

father and I, we started going to church and then I started singing
learned 'Il -k
it. Then he kexd some songs and we sang lt- But I

started singing it over and over until we got used to it.

B: I wish I had my guitar along so we can sing together.

F: I can sing better, like when my father plays the his guitar, or


7 LUM 195 A

B: I'm sure every, anybody can sing better with musical .r 4d'l;

What else do you like? What other songs do you like to sing?

What song do you love 4 D i

F: Well, it's a various hymn. Not the fool songs or something.

B: Do you want to do another one?

F: Christian song?
B: Nfjwyou pick.....I want you to pick it. Which one, whichever one you

like to sing.

F: A school or a Christian song? I don't really know which one to sing,

I'd rather sing a Christian song.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

B: Okay. That's fine.

F: =xxI'll sing Amasing Grace.

B: Okay.

F: Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound.

That saved a wretch like me.

I once was lost, but now I'm found

Was blind, but now I see.

Was grace that taught my heart to fear

And grace my fears L 4

How precious is that grace o'f-Ws

'jt h Ou I first believed.

^ -f i f tL ,

And grace will leave me not.

P%- i-h-shininge the sun.

8 LUM 195 A

J7r (m)A41in l ultf lie Vec

B: Um hmm, I like that. You said you liked church songs, or Christian

songs, now uh, better than the others? Or school songs?

F: Yeah.

B: Well, that's good. Maybe you'll.....do you sing in church?

F: Yes, sir.

B: You help out in church singing.

F: Yes, sir.

B: Well, that's good. Do you have a little choir in church?

F: I think we're gathering together some people up there now, you know,

to make us a, I don't know 4 I4A1 but the more and more that

we have service up there, you know, more people start to sing. SO

I figure we're going to have a little choir or something.

B: Okay. Faye, you like to write poetry?

F: Yes, sir.

B: Do youlike to write poems? What do youwrite about? .--F

F: Well, I write about hard times4Sict r "it6C./"'( f-_ -" vi

B: Um hmm. RaxyaxU Will you let me see some of your poems sometime.

F: Yes, sir.

B: Cause I write poems and I teach writing poetry in school, l .

I teach irnwx bBEarnxt kxtxpitxF=axgy young people how to wtite poetry

in high school. -__ __ '" ,_ poetry in schoolsprogram


F: Well, ur, like if I see this ani something,
looking around or if I look at some pictures of way back in the old

times 4r w* t fiL S4T*CS or something, you know, I just
( ./ 4 J --

9 LUM 195 A

I just think that, uh, get a pencil and paper, and I just think up

words like, I wriGethe title, then I write a few verses of what

I'm going to write, then if I mess it up, you know, I just write

on one side.....I type it on one page of paper, one piece of paper

and then I, well, you know, I just think of more words, ah words

that rhyme and I just write them until I have the whole poem


B: Um hmm. How do you make out in school with other children who, who..

.... they make any difference between you because you're Indian?

r ". t aV other students?

F: Well, this last, um, this 1 '4" year they have, you know, some

didn't like me, and you know, most of them were up there, you know

teasing about us Indians, you know, and calling us names and stuff

like that, you know, like we weren't no good and they AhQ 8

I V I. _1 .1_ They just didn't like us, as if we

were doing them some harm or something. And so, U,/-c they

just talked about us.

B: Um hm. Well, of course, they didn't realize perhaps that the Indian

students are in these schools because they were put there, not because

they want to be there.

F: That's right. See, I suppose that they think that they were better

than us or something like that, or we just came there to that school

to try to get them out or something, you know.

B: Is that getting better now?

F: Well, it just started mainly this last year.

B: Um hmm. Do these udents that would tease you a lot or '' )

sggg=agaam wouldbe lack students or white students?

F: They were black students. You know, because they inm, they, they called
"0 1

( ) 10 LUM 195 A
the names like, or something and '

B: I never heard that before.

F: Yeah, I don't know what it really means ( But they say

ty r -. 2.? O l ''" and stuff like this, you know,

and different things like that, and ah, they'd be writing on the

ground, "Look out for the Indians.", or something. J, .4 f/ik ,#y k

"_ _c Yl_ they going to get somebody or something.

And they hoped that we would stayraway from their schools so they

could have it to, by theirself like they were there first of some-

thing t '' .

B: Is this before you were sent to this school, do you know whether it

was predominantly black or white?

F: Well, it was mixed before I went there, you know, I was in the third

grade when I first went there. Because I used to go to 1 V (4C 6 ,

you know, and that was a white school. And mainly just white went

there--I know of a few blacks went there. /,44 a L-'

you know, they were mixed, Indian and black. Hardly no whites.

B:q JUst about all of them were black Indians?

F: Yes sir.

B: ~4 C / 5^ r ( 4' (WV r 4 X)

F: Well, I don't really know.

B: Well, maybe I shouldn't ask you that question J -" f "

Well, do you have any other problems in school?

F: Well there's some, you know, there's just just teasing about how

I look and stuff

B: How do they say you look? You're very pretty to me.

F: They call, they call me fatso and stuff like that.
B: (oia diA I) I -
How much do you weigh?

F: ( i ':

1] LUM 195 A

B: Well, don't answer that. I wouldn't ask you that, but you don't....

are you overweight? I haven't noticed if you are.

F: Good. Is this overweighted: a hundred? Over, if its over a hundred,

is that overweighted?

B: Well, it depends. I guess it depends on your height and things like

that. But you don't look overweight to me. What other problems

do you have in school?

F: Well, none exactly, but, you know some.

B: This is your little sister coming in here, I'll have to explain that

so people will know what, know what it is. Her little sister

(^ { (. hy And I wish you wouldn't, please.

^ *r-^'J~i U~w ^^*^ ^ r."

Could you tell me what subjects you like best in school?

F: Mostly reading, and but I like reading, _T

tveL ^&W "m art. I like reading and art And that's

about all, except that....

B: And, do you have decided what you're going to do when you grow up?

Well, I hate to say when you grow up. You're twelve years

old. Soon you're going to be sixteen, and soon eighteen and then

you'll want to be back young again, right?

F: Yes, sir. Like, I'feelr. c right now, like, a lot of parents

ff but I feel like when I when I get on

up, like, a lot of parents now say, like, when they were old, real

old like my grand, my grand mother, she said, she wish she could

have went to school when she was real little._'.-., .

SC would have went every day. But she couldn't go because
of some reason--I forgot. And then she said she was she was real

young then, like I was, you know, like now. And then so often, like

zr llum 195 A

if T was older, then I'd be wishing that I was young. And if

B: We always wish for what we don't have or what we aren't, don't we?

U[I VE C '9I don't know if you've heard this, but

our Indian people didn't have good schools, you know. That was

true of our people back home and probably true of your people too.

But, at least we've got good schools now-- gge schools,


F: Yes, sir.

B: But you don't really worry about these things much, do you?

F: Well, I worry I about when I leave that school I' m L( I'm

worrying about how the other schools are going to be, you know,

cause they say some bad:things about the other school, like the

children pick on you because they're different, or something, you

know, cause now I' 4f"C e4 'I\ a lot.

B: Um hm. Do they....what is the name of this other school you're

going to?

F: _______ .:_

B: East?

F: Eastman.

B: Eastman School.

F: Eastman High School. So I don't know whether these things are

true or not. All of my friends are going there this year. Some

are already gone. And I don't know how it's going to be, but you


B: Do they make you feel afraid or feel uncertain or what?

F: Well, I mostly feel afraid, like they keep talking about those

older kids, you know, that walk around and pick on the small ones.

And that, whether the teachers are nice to your what. You know

because most, mainly I don't know how it is up there. So I'll

13 LUM 195 A

have to see what it's going to be like.

B: Well, I hope it will be very, very nice.

F: Thank you.

B: I hope it'll be a very nice place.

F: Well, I've been up there before and it seemed okay; but, I don't

know about the students, because, you know, I don't know how they

are Inaudible

B: Well, do you think, of course, you don't know, but do you think things

like that are improving?

F: I hope so. I don't really know. But I've been thinking about it

ever since l COU Sh ll c used to go there.

And Ronald, his brother, graduated out there, and he quit, because,

you know, they was playing ball and this boy wanted the ball or

something, you know, and he hurt his arm--twisted it or pushed him

in the ditch or something. And he got kicked--one of my cousins

got kicked in the, you know, in the stomach /1 1 AIt( M4A f ;i 1

B: Well, maybe it, maybe it will be better than you think, huh?

F: I hope so.

B: Do you like to go to church?

F: Yes, sir.

B: I've heard it said that some of the students fall out the first...

This is something you don't really know. I mean, I'm asking you

something that maybe IS j t rti c '' i Wzy

do think some of the, some of our Indian students fall out of

school? Why are they falling out of some of these schools? Do

you have an opinion on it?

F: Well, the main opinion for me is because that they aren't studying,

14 LUM 195 A

studying hard or something--or either ,-r

B: you don't think it's because they're being mistreated but because

they're behind?

F: Yeah, I think that some of that is true. Because some of the Placks

you know, 6 /k 6 'C e And _'__

and it seems like it worries them, you know, it gets i; their iind

and they think 1A 1lt7 f^k
be a problem of it.

B: You're not planning on dropping out, are you?

F: No, sir. I want to finish. And if I can I want to go to college.

B: Right. Well, I hope you make it. And you can if you try hard enough.

Just don't let anybody stop you, and just ignore these people.

F: I wanted to be a nurse, but the way I can't, I can't even stand to

get a shot. (Inaudible)

I can't even stand to give blood or nothing, you know. No way I

can be a nurse.

B: You say ......you think you're going to have to change your mind

about that because Y4
adjusted to that.

F: I would like to be a secretary.

B: Well, you still have time to decide that, A7tYr J .

F: My teacher, my last two teachers j .. .______. ,

she told us it would be best tostart planning ourself before you grow,

grew up, you know. Think about what you wanted to dar4h;t.

15 LUM 195 A

And then, if you find out later on that you couldn't do that,

C4 V if WJ ,1 p something else. And so, we

been thinking about it, you know, she tells us to write about

it, and think about it and how it was to see if that was the

right job and stuff like that.

B: Is your school very big? Are thee very many students?

F: Well, yeah, it's a.........well, it's a big building, you know, it

doesn't have no L you know, it's got a long


B: Do they have different classes in school like, you know, in the

same grade like the smart class, the lazy class or the bluebirds

and the blackbirds and the redbirds and things like that?

F: Well, um, they hav ike teacher aids.

B: Like what?

F: Teacherdfids, and they take these ones that aren't doing so well in

the classrooms, you know, and they help them improve a little more

so they can catch up with the rest of the class. And we have four,

four trailers out there. In the building on to the kindergarten

and the sixth grade, ah, fifth grades are in there. And one sixth

grade class and then there's the principal office and stuff like

Sjk .tt> , library, and stuff in there like that.

Then we have an aid room in there, you know, like where you get hurt

^ 'y. And then we have the seventh, we have two.

seventh grades outside in the trailer and one sixth grade. Then we

have another teacher's aid trailer out there where these people,

these students that need special help 4'.t 1 / f'I iC.

B: Do you think teachers treat Indian students any different that they

do aY other students?

F: Well, one or two of them, .__

16 LUM 195 A

B: Yeah. How about discipline? When students do something, what do

they do then? What kind of punishment?

F: When they do something wrong?

B: Um hm.

F: Well, they'll make them or they'll keep them in,

or they'll ground them or something yx like that you know. Or

either they'll paddle them, or something.

B: What is, when you, when they ground you? What does that mean?

F: They make you stay in for about a month, or like, if school hasnt

been too long started, they'll make you stay in about a month.

B: After class?

F: No, ah, you know, at recess.

B: Oh yeah. I see.

F: We have two recesses, and you know, they make you stay in all

through recess, or either two weeks, or four weeks, or something.

B: I see. How about writing themes? Do you have to write...........?

F: Well, sometimes she'll make them stay in, paddle them, first she'll

paddle them them she'll make them stay in and write a whole chapter

or a whole paragraph, read about three paragraphs or one or two

paragraphs out of a book f / then they'll have to

read them Ct( lf H ) / u l tthoy oa write off about

three ) b .. the man teachers heIll

W.k n --h .....ao k them write off about three hundred

B: Have you ever been to Robertson County?

F: No, sir.

17 LUM 195 A
B: Have you met some ob the people who work with o......
at the 1
F: Yeah. I met a whole lot of people coming up here, yoa know, _>

1 CCie f[ kA but n-t a vez i i C I met

whole lot--I met some Mexicans, (inaudible)

I've changed ways a little.

B: You say you've changed ways a little, you mean you improved a little


F: Yes, sir. Like uh, well, my voice changed, A whole lot of people tell

me about my voice.

B: What about your voice?

F: Like, well, some have said l have a pretty voice for singing. Then

some have said I / on account of I talk like

this. And instead of / g "here" and "there", I've got,

well, I started saying "there" and "here". .- t Cd4C

help Dso notice %W 4?vl#$ try to talk better.

B: That's a test in improving your speech, you mean.

F: And then, you know, well, some, like I used to stay around the house

here. I do a lot of work, you know.

B: What do you like to work at around the house?

F: Well, I like to keep the house clean. I like to babysit.

B: Do you like to babysit?

F: A little. I mean I like to babysit, but when he gets sick, I don't

like it.

B: Do you work....do you work hard at ej ? .'*** trying to improve

your English?

18 LUM 195 A

F: I study in school, /n Je ^ PS A /-
B: That's why no matter what anybody says __jl _

F: Talk proper. Every time I try to do that, you know, a whole lot of

people, well they'll talk irv ritYi- instead of proper.
You know, they'll they'll put 't's" and stuff like that on their

words, you know, just. Say, say their words, that maybe It r

Ae r Sunday sermon stuff's proper, But then, some will try to say a

word j Vfr Jtt-3 tY ,^ZfD4m 4 Ca j, Xc4 r

B: Well, uh, I'm going to ask you a question about the generation gap.

Did you ever hear that term used?
F: What, belong to the generation gap?

B: Well, it's something like that............. ..The older'people have

a generation then the younger have another generation and because of

the older people sometimes don't understand the younger people, or
the younger people the older people. Then that's called the generation

gap. Do you think we have a generation gap?

F: For everybody?
B: Well, I'm talking about here, people here.

F: Yes sir. Because the older people, well, a few of them, you know,

they don't understand or they don't like the way you dress and stuff.

Some, I don't like some of them. Like these new a C/c-le

I don't really like them.

B: Like the -_ ., That's a new one on me. Oh I,

I guess -)
F: You know, they get these blouses and they don't have no _- .C- in

19 LUM 195 A

them, or __ ) they got slits coming down and they're just

strutting r igwt I don't really like them.

B: Do you find it easy to talk to older people?

F: Well, some people.

B: It depends on who the person is,

F: Yes, sir. It depends on the way their life is, You know, like if

they lived in another country and they don't, they don't understand

what we're saying or something, then they talk. But, like if uh, if

it's old, older people around in here or some people that I understand

and they understand me, then I, you know, I can talk to them okay.

B: Do you find it hard, maybe this is an unfair question, but do you find

it hard to talk to me?

F: No, sir. Not really.

B: We understand each other don't we? Pretty much.

F: I think so. If I can get a good, if I can get a good conversation

going, you know, then I feel okay and I'm not so nervous to talk

to someone.

B: Um hm. You don't seem too nervous to me. You seem at ease, or maybe

it doesn't show very much.

F: Like when I start talking a lot, you know, I get my mi-nd off

everything else, you know.

B: Except what you're trying to say. It's a good way to kh do it, you


F: Nothing on my mind except what I'm doing.

B: Um hm. I want to ask you a question, and then I want to ask you what

you'd like to talk about. How about that? Okay, will that be alright?

Okay? Then first, let me ask you the question: If you had to change

20 LUM 195 A

anything, if you wanted to change, if you had the power, I'm sorry,

I'm not being very clear myself. If you had the power to change

anything in this world, in you r community, what would it be? Or

would you like to think about that?

F: I'd like to change where people are living. And about all this

government stuff and I'd 4a4 change this divorce stuff, I

B: I understand the divorce stuff, but how about the government stuff?

F: Well, I'd try to change about the jails and bring down the prices.

B: Oh, I see.

F: I would try to give people better schools and more good churches.

Might have or something and missionaries to help out and

I'd probably give you know, help out the hospitals and supplies that

we need and food and bringing down the prices of meat and stuff. And

clothing and trying to get them to make more '___ s-tuff,

like. Something to cover your body instead of 4A d 4i-

B: Instead of what, dear?

F: Well, I mean, all, you know, all this stuff, like, you know, tfITS.d

o C A C I4c r'.. or something, I'd probably

make, you know, to change the ways of dress,

B: Okay, that's good. About what, what would you like, if you had to

pick some subjects to talk about, what would you like to talk about?

F: The main subject is life.

B: Life?

F: And God. I mean that's the main two.

B: Um hm. Well that's .......... A minute ago, I asked you, you know,

when we were talking off, off the tape recorder, I asked you to put

down a list of things you'd like to talk about and you listed them and

the order that you'd rather, you'd like to talk about the things you

21 LUM 195 A

wanted to talk about. Would you mind reading the list off for me?
FS,,S ir.- -
F: Well, God.

B: You put, which did you put first?

B: Life?

F: Well I was meant to bring that one.

B: Well, that's alright, I'm sure you,,

F: God, life, me, my poems. a TV program, and clothes and (-GWi*, (

and poetry and God.

B: That's fine, Okay. We.l1 talk about God first, Is God very near to

you? Do you feel that He is very near?

F; Yes, sir. Because the Bible says, ir1 JX.M (cd IPJE /ICt

He will never say no and stuff like that, you know. It says that and

I believe in it you know, that He created the world and he created us.

He wanted us to serve Him and, you know, and be good and feel for

other people rather than feeling / "

B: Um hmm.

F: And I like to talk about the way, I like to talk about the soul, Like

how the people He, the people that He created and how, and how He di,

tLi fJ f 44L Adam. And I like to read the story about

Cain and Able, you know, and about MOVS like the ones that

He created. I like to talk about the t_ A C_ it

B: Have you ever read the 'Most", let's see, I believe it's called, "The

Greatest Story Ever Told"?

F: I forgot.

B: Well, that's the book of many Bible stories. You might enjoy that. Okay,

go ahead, I didn't mean to interrupt,

F: Well.

22 LUM 195 A

B: Tell me what else you feel about God.

F: I feel that He helps us in many ways and we ought to, well, try
rep-AA r A' re&iro -ft
to b4me n, to be something .what He has done for us.. And I

think we should love Wkm and more, I mean, I thing, I love Him

more than I do anybody, you know, because, He 4Cr^sa" f~

B: T Veaay 1rly

F: (inaudible) J J So ,

B; Do you ever talk in church? Do you get a chance to talk in church?

F: Yes, sir. I answer a lot of questions.

B: Um hm. Do you ever testify?

F: Like preach about Him?

B: Do you ever get up and, you know, testify in church?

F: Sometimes.

B: Tell what the Lord's done for you and things like that.

Do you enjoy it?

F: Yes sir.

B: Um hmm.

F: I love to talk about it.

B: That's wonderful. And, let's see now, what was the next one?

F: Uh, life.

B: Okay, let's talk about life.

F: Well, I like to talk about the way people are doing and, you know,

some people are doing a lot of wrong things. And I'd like to talk

about the government, and which I, you know, I donkt think it's

honest for them to do the tricks, to do that, because

B: Like Watergate, and things like that that are in the news now?

23 LUM 195 A

F: Yes, sir. And all about this, you know, they keep, people keep

getting hurtzysxkumxaw more, more each day, you knwv. And I think

we should try to make some safety things like they do on cars.

64t fk< c CA V f<' )O heu cIt ears and stuff. And

motorcycles. And rather that in a whole lot of things that get

people killed. And

B: Let's see now, what else was it you had down there?

F: I like to talk about myself.

B: About yourself. That's a good person to talkabout. Let's talk about

yourself, okay?

F: Well, uh, well, if a person asks me how I feel about _, well

then I like to tell them, I like to, I like to show my feelings to

someone else the way I feel about.

B: Um hmm.

F: And I like to tell people, I like to do the right things to do and

from the wrong things to do. And I like to, well, I just like to

describe the ways of living. And like if a person that maybe I enjoy

going to church instead of l 4tJ JD4gL t d Jst> ,

B: You tell them what? I'm sorry, I didn't understand that.

F: Well, like if somebody asks me like, do I like to go to church, you know,

I just say, I just tell them that I love to go to church and they should

go too.

B: Um hm.

F: You know, I just tell them how I feek and that I think they should feel

sometimes the way that I do, you know. I know everyone has different

feelings but everyone should feel the same way about God i oJ .

Because I think everyone should love God better than they do anybody

else. And a whole lot of people don't.


B: Right. I guess you're right. Even better than their.e

F: Yes, sir.

B: Ot 0 .What else did IA rA^ A/

F: I like to talk about .

B: Tell, tell me somemore about you, I want to hear somemore about you.

F: Well, I like to talk about **,*

B; What

F: I don't really know, you know, I just, I just like to describe my

feelings but mainly a you know, and tell

about how, what I can do or something. And I like to

B: Inaudible

F: Well, that's about all except I like to tell people what I like to do,

and try to be honest with them. And tell, try to show that I"m an

honest person. And I try to be nice and show them that I'm nice.

B: Um hmm.

F: And I like to, I like to tell people that they can trust in me and to

make, give them my promise and keep my promise and do them favors.

B: That's wonderful. You give somebody a, you make a promise to somebody

that you feel that you're duty bound to keep that promise, right?

F: I always does it.

B: You always do? That's c I4 Okay. Is that all you want to say

about yourself?

F: Yes.

B: Before we go on to the next subject? Okay, what was that next subject

you had ""

F: Ah, my parents.

B: Okay, that's wonderful. You can talk about your parents a long time,

can't you?

25 LUM 195 A

F: Well, I like to talk about the ways that they help me, you know?

And they help me to understand problems that I didn't. And I like

to talk about the ways that we live and how my father { ar\ i I ,

you know, A.f Sk food and stuff. And I like the way my mother,

you know, like, when we was sick, you know, she waited on us and my

father 1 .. C I different places. You know,

I just like to talk, talk about them. And then, well

B: inaudible

F: __ji__ I like I like to talk abott what they .were doing,

you know, and tell them how they, how wrong they are. In a way, you

know, because I feel that",,

B: >^//you think they're wrong ,***


26 LUM 195 A

B: Would you go ahead and tell uws,what you were telling them when the

tape ran out. Do you remember what we were talking about?

F: I was talking about my parents.

B: Um hmm.

F: I like to talk about what, anyway, you know, why they were doing

what they were doing wrong. Even though,you know, they were

separated, they didn't want to stay with each other. They didn't

have to leave us. I mean, I don't feel that it was right for them to

leave us, even though we see them. And I don't like the w" my mommata

being treated. I don t ever, uh, I always worry about them, you know.

I felt that we should be real close or something. You know, I always,

we were always close together and I wish we, they were back together


B: Um hmm.

F: And every time you see them, you know, MOj 0l- /. 9 Ci7

y'I ___ l__ aC_ s what they did wrong. They shouldn't have done

it and I wish they hadn't done it p

B: I see.

F: So it makes me feel bad, you know, just talk about what

they did a9,14 A / Ik ;-' ( 3 ,

B: Now what else 6VTW1 T S want to talk about?

F: Well, this divorce stuff, t.C-': I ,you know, about

including the )rcyfo

B: Well, the divorce is a terrible thing.

F: To me they are.

B: Um hmm.

F: Because the Bible says, you know, by aw they're, they are, like if they

27 LUM 195 A

had a divorce, then hy law they weren't, they wouldn't be married

then. But in God's kingdom, they still are man and wife.

B: I see what you mean.

F: And so, I think this should be just that same way in life, but there

is not. Because, you know, I want them together and I wish that, in

a way I wish they had never been dbx / (1 71 9j I' divorced.

B: In other words you want them both, don't you?

F: Um hm.

B: Right.

F: And I want them both together.

B: Um hmm. And sometimes it is impossible for parents to he together, but

naturally you love them both and you'd like to see them together, right?

F: Yes, sir.

B: Okay, did you say all you wanted to about that?

F: That's about all.

B: Okay. I'm not rushing you, but my ride is ready. Let's see now, what

else did we have to talk about? I want you to talk. I want you to

express yourself, okay?

F: Alright. I only got, II 1CIe M three more things.

B: Well, you go right ahead now. We don't have very many ,'S C_ ,

F: Well, I like to talk about Ii,9VC4 'ie'- ., the way you dress, you

know. I like to get, talk to people about hor do the* _

things and sew and stuff.

B: Um hmm. You like to sew?

F: Yes, sir. I made this.

B: You did?

F: Um hmm.


B: Very nice.

F: Thank you. I like to talk to people about what size and pattern

and stuff, you know, you get. And what kind of fabric and what,

how to use and how to make the fabric. And I like to tell people

that I love to sew, and I like to see them make things, you know,

because they look real pretty to me.

B: Would you describe, would you describe your outfit? So that our

listeners will know.

F: Well, it's a little ,d' t'A It's a plain piece dress

and it's sleeveless and it's got, it's wide, it's kind of wide at the

F__ C _I and small up here. R\ % and it's kind of

(4th4'4ef at the shoulders.

B: Um hmm. Very nice. What kind of material is that?

F: Cotton.

B: Cotton. Wy it looks very nice. Let me see. Did you, where did you

get, di dyou use a pattern to make that or did you e a

F: I used a pattern.

B: Um hmm. *" - f-^ 'I see. Let me see. What else could

you say about it?

F: It has, it zips up in the back.

B: It zips up in the back. Um hmm.

F: And

B: It's nice and soft summer material, isn't it?

F: Yes, sir. And its' cool.

B: Um hmm. We didn't say anything about the color.

F: It's pink.

B: UM hmm.

29 LUM 195 A

F: It's kind of light red

B: Well, it is just a lovely shade of pink. Very light pink, right?

F: Yes, sir.

B: Um hmm. Wtc( 1_ you're very crea, e, I can see that.

F: Thankyou. I like the k4AF- and design and the way that you make the

clothes. You know, I think it's real pretty, like you, like if you

were drawing a picture. And then you create clothes instead of creating

a picture. But it would be almost just like drawing. When t_ )

like we started to talk about the way you fix thej I\ CI. and how

to do it or what the main things are you're supposed to have.

B: Let me ask you one question about this. Did you think about the color

and how its color would match or enhance your complexion? You've got,

you're very, y-ou've got very light complexion and it's, ah, did you

think, do you think about those things when you're making them?

F: Js f ___. I think about I\ tt' I

B: How it would look on you, right. You mate it for you didn't you?

F: Yes, sir.

B: Right. That's right. That's the way it should be. I like that. Go

ahead now. I didn't mean to interrupt.

F: Well e I well I guess should talk about the way I make them and

how they'll look, You know, I don't like really all these real fancy

things that are coming out now. And, well I just like plain stuff, you

know, just plain clothes. I like to talk about the way you supposed to

fix the tail or adjust the hemline or the shoulder parts. And I like to

look through the book and choose patterns. I like to look and find the

notions or what you need, like a dress, or 6 O f and zippers and

xKkffix buttons or buttonholes or And, you know, that s

about all. You know, and I like to look at stuff with other people.

30 LUM 195 A

B; Um hmm. Well, let's see now. What else do you want to talk about?

F; Poetry.

B: Come on, Let's talk about poetry.

F: Well, one reason why I like to talk about poetry because it expresses

my feelings and I don't have to do a lot of talking. You, know, just

write it.

B: And you can say it in a few words? What you feel in a few words?

F: Yes sir. You know, I don't have to go B S this like a speech.

B: Um hmm.

F: And I just write it down and let people read it instead of just going

out and just telling about it. You know, I write about poems because

I like, well, most things, the main thing is because I just like to do


B: Um hmm. That's a good reason.

F: And I like it because it's pretty, you know, and f dr" ;F,

I always l -to have if

And so that's one reason why I like it because if youcan have verses

E LC Si \ And you have to put the words together to

make them pretty and peen You have to use something special.

You know. And I just like to write them down I like to put them in

my cards and make cards. And I like to hear other people read their

poems. And I like to read my own. and just abnat different


B: Will you read some of my poems and tell me the honest truth about the

way you feel about them?

F: Yes sir.

31 LUM 195 A

B: ) I'll choose fve e I think you might like. That

would, you know, that al6 Tin r Okay. Now, what

else did you want to talk about?

F: Drawing.

B: Okay.

F: Um, I like to draw pictures of the world, you know, the flowers,.

the trees, and the backgrounds of the world. I like to draw parts

of people. I like to draw people. And I like to make designs, just

just plain designs. Maybe mixed up colors and stuff. And I like to
1 FC4 e. 1 ( 41
paint water colors and I like- rC'Af C .And I ike

to make fe+&lC es. And the create them with the home. I like to

draw because, you know, you learn more about yourself, because the

more you learn to draw you learn about how you look. You learn ahout

your eyes and your face and you see how you really look,

yOu'll see how other people look and you'll try to draw them and like

they are in person. And, well, I guess I just got one more reason why

xxxxxxx I like to draw--I guess I draw because I love it.

B: Could, would you draw me sometime?

F: I'll try.

B: __r(tC And would you draw me honestly like you see me?

F: try.

32 LUM 195 A

B: As well as you can.

F: Yes sir.

B: I appreciate that and write me a poem and write me a few-'.tein

_______ p__and I'll let you see some of mine. If I can help

you I will, okay?

F: Okay.

B: Will we be poetry buddies?

F:q Yes sir.

B; Okay. Now I want to ask you one more thing. Do you have one last

word you'd like to say to other young peopleyour age?

F: Well,

B: And I have one more correction, but go ahead and say it.

F: I hope this world turns out to be better than it already is, and I hope

that the cost of living comes down !eea and I hope the world ix

B: Did you ever take an I.Q. test?

F: For what, for my eyes? C -7 0-S

B: An I.Q. test.li,n 1V'4lX'c laugh. You know how high your

I.Q. is?

F: I don't know what that is.

B: Well, it's a sort of test that you take at school to measure your

intelligence quotient.

F: Oh.

B: I.Q. means intelligence quotient.

F: Like a test?

B: Um hmm.

F: Yes, sir. I took that in about....I didn't-reire_____

33 LUM 195 A

Well, I think mine turned out to be okay, you know.

B: But you don't know how okay, do you?

F: Uh uh.

B: )1M t jf9 extra okay.

F: It was hard, hard.

B: It was kind of, your rating was pretty good?

F: I think so.

B: That s nice. I want to thank you so very much for this. You've been

such a wonderful interviewee, I think. Itre enjoyed this and it's

helped us a lot and, now is there anything else you want to talk about?

F: Well, nothing just about, about all for right now.

B: Um hmm. Well, thank you so very much- 67 .A)

F: You're welcome.

B: Bye.

F: Bye.

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