Citation

## Material Information

Title:
Interview with Ester Ann Richardson, July 2, 1974
Creator:
Richardson, Ester Ann ( Interviewee )
Publication Date:
Language:
English

## Subjects

Subjects / Keywords:
Florida History ( local )
Lumbee Oral History Collection ( local )
Spatial Coverage:
Lumbee County (Fla.)

## Notes

Funding:
This text has been transcribed from an audio or video oral history. Digitization was funded by a gift from Caleb J. and Michele B. Grimes.

## Record Information

Source Institution:
Samuel Proctor Oral History Program, Department of History, University of Florida
Holding Location:
This interview is part of the 'Lumbee County' collection of interviews held by the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program of the Department of History at the University of Florida
Rights Management:
Resource Identifier:
LUM 195 ( SPOHP IDENTIFIER )

Full Text

Russ Hyden 1 LUM 195 A

B: This is July 2, 1974. I'm Lew Barton, interviewing for the University

of Florida's History Department's American Indian Oral History Program.

This afternoon, we are near Hollister, North Carolina, and we are in

the home of, would you tell us your mother's name, please, dear?

F: My grandparents?

B: Your home, here. Where are we right now?

F: Mrs. ?OIC'44Si/g house?

B: Right. What is your name?

F: Esther Ann Richardson.

B: How old are you?

F: Twelve.

B: What do you want me to call you?

F: Faye.

B: Faye? Okay, I'll aall you Faye. Faye, are you in school?

F: Yes sir.

B: What grade are you in?

F: I passed to the seventh.

B: You passed to the seventh this past year?

F: Yes, sir.

B: Do you go? You don't go to an Indian school anymore, do you?

F: (inaudible)

B: We used.....we used to go to Indian schools, black schools and white

schools, and now they're all integrated, aren't they?

F: Yes, sir.

B: And you go to a....what they call an integrated school. Where do you

Ua.rk( l

2 LUM 195 A

F: J f' b 1 Elementary School.

B: Did you used to go to A?//Owvn Indian School, didn't you?

F: No, sir.

B: You never did go there?

F: No, sir.

B: But you know they did have a school there, but you weren't old enough

to go then, were you?

F: Well, I was old enough, but I started to another school.

B: You were going to another school.

F: Yes, sir.

F: Well, uh, let's see. I have three sisters. One named Lisa, and the

other one's Kim, and the other one's CO/, ?. And my momma's

name is Nancy, and my daddy's name is Odom. And I have a little

half-brother named Adam. And I have a little half-sister named

Marsha.

F: #ual nelf97e) e4S
B: (Inaudible)

F: (naudible)

B: Now, could you give me their ages?

F: Lisa is eight. Kim is six. And Paula is four. And Marsha is two. And

F: I'm twelve.

B: You're twelve. That's a nice age to be, isn't it?

F: Well, it's okay.

3 LUM 195 A

B: You want to be older or younger? Or, do you wish you weren't as

old as you are?

F: Well, it's a hard decision because if I was older, I wauld be wishing

that I was younger. And if I was real young, I would be wishing I

was real old(

B: I guess we're never really satisfied, are we?

F: Sir

B: We're all that way, aren't we?

F: Um hm.

B: What's your favorite course in school? What do you like, one of your

courses that, like English?

F: Yes sir.

B: What are some of the things that you enjoy reading best?

stories /] e __ or something.

B: WxskEfx Where.......do you go to church?

F: Yes sir.

B: Where do you go, .... ?

F: I go to St., ah, Moint'Gideon .. Church.

B: Do you hwe a pretty good Sunday School? Pretty good sized Sunday

School over there? /

F: Well k .1 if /'. : You know, we don't have

a...... 4...., it's about eighty or ninety ^

j-\ i.

4 LUM 195 A

B: That's a good size. I mean a good Sunday School. You might have a,

you might get to a hundred after a while.

F: I hope so.

B: Do you go' every Sunday?

F: Not exactly. Almost.

B: Are you a little lazy?about going to church on Sunday? I couldn't

ASk you that, could I? Maybe that't not a fair question. Do you

like to go to Sunday School?

F: Yes sir.

F: Well, it's okay. I love to go to school, but I hate getting up in

the morning.

B: Are you, are you proud to be an Indian?

F: Yes, sir. Well, Id don't really like it.

B: You've never been anything else, so you couldn't really say. That..

maybe that's not a fair question to ask, is it? I think Indian

people are wonderful.

F: Thank you.

B: I'm glad to be one, too. What kind of hobbies, what do youdo, what

do you like to do best?

F: Well,I like to sew. I like to read. I like to sing and play instru-

ments. Well, I love to play4sometimes) Yes.

B: You like to work once in a while, but not too often. What kind of

F: Well, I make ., good grades, every year, so far. I haven't

failed a year. I made some, you know, A's and the lowest one that I

got is a C.

B: And you're going to be in the............you said you finished the

the seventh, didn't you?

5 LUM 195 A

F: No, I passed to the seventh, you know. And this year when I go back,

I'll be in the seventh.

B: I see. Do you like English?

F: I like it some, but I get mixed up in the verbs and stuff.

B: Do yolsing?

F: Yes, sir.

B: Would you sing me something?

F: The whole thing?

B: You don't have an instrument, do you?

F: No, sir. But I can sing without one.

B: Okay, that would be fine.

F: Want me to give you the name of it?

B: Um hm. What kind of songs do you like best?

F: Well, I like to sing Christian songs, you know. You know, clean songs.

I don't the rock.

B: You don't like the...?

F: I like a few of them, not much.

B: What are some of the one's you do like?

F: Well, that's hard to decide. Uh, let me see. I like some songs like...

I don't really know. It's hard....it's athard decision. I like some

of them that tell about people's /_ __ or something. But I

don't like the ones that ah, all this uh, 1y rock and roll,

and soul music and Pii g up and down and 4 pLr i

B: You don't go for that, do you?

F: No sir.

B: I see. Well, what you going to sing for us?

6 LUM 195 A

F: Uh, I'm going to sing a song MQV fr6 4! ?

B: Um hmm. That's good. Just pitch right in any time you feel like

it.

F: Ooobo hope. There's a beautiful home.

Ooooo high. Yes, my Lord.

Lord I wonder, will I ever

Go home for the Son.

In another year. I'll know dear Lord

Dead and gone. But lord I wonder

Will I ever go home

Goooo home. There's a beautiful home.

Ooooo home. Yes, my Lord.

Lord I wonder, will I ever Lord1

Go home.

B: Hey, I like that. Xat axiaakikt EiXKK.I like that very much.

F: Thank you.

B: here did youlearn that?

F: Well, uh, one his MJ s / 5 y parents

And they had this record, and it had this song on there and I kept

listening to it and they kept playing it over and over and it was

a Christian song. And I liked it so much that I started, you know,

studying on it, and I got the hand of it singing it, and then, my

father and I, we started going to church and then I started singing
learned 'Il -k
it. Then he kexd some songs and we sang lt- But I

started singing it over and over until we got used to it.

B: I wish I had my guitar along so we can sing together.

F: I can sing better, like when my father plays the his guitar, or

something.

7 LUM 195 A

B: I'm sure every, anybody can sing better with musical .r 4d'l;

What else do you like? What other songs do you like to sing?

What song do you love 4 D i

F: Well, it's a various hymn. Not the fool songs or something.

B: Do you want to do another one?

F: Christian song?
i/o
B: Nfjwyou pick.....I want you to pick it. Which one, whichever one you

like to sing.

F: A school or a Christian song? I don't really know which one to sing,

I'd rather sing a Christian song.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

B: Okay. That's fine.

F: =xxI'll sing Amasing Grace.

B: Okay.

F: Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound.

That saved a wretch like me.

I once was lost, but now I'm found

Was blind, but now I see.

Was grace that taught my heart to fear

And grace my fears L 4

How precious is that grace o'f-Ws

'jt h Ou I first believed.

^ -f i f tL ,

And grace will leave me not.

P%- i-h-shininge the sun.

8 LUM 195 A

J7r (m)A41in l ultf lie Vec

B: Um hmm, I like that. You said you liked church songs, or Christian

songs, now uh, better than the others? Or school songs?

F: Yeah.

B: Well, that's good. Maybe you'll.....do you sing in church?

F: Yes, sir.

B: You help out in church singing.

F: Yes, sir.

B: Well, that's good. Do you have a little choir in church?

F: I think we're gathering together some people up there now, you know,

to make us a, I don't know 4 I4A1 but the more and more that

we have service up there, you know, more people start to sing. SO

I figure we're going to have a little choir or something.

B: Okay. Faye, you like to write poetry?

F: Yes, sir.

B: Do youlike to write poems? What do youwrite about? .--F

F: Well, I write about hard times4Sict r "it6C./"'( f-_ -" vi

B: Um hmm. RaxyaxU Will you let me see some of your poems sometime.

F: Yes, sir.

B: Cause I write poems and I teach writing poetry in school, l .

I teach irnwx bBEarnxt kxtxpitxF=axgy young people how to wtite poetry

in high school. -__ __ '" ,_ poetry in schoolsprogram

(Inaudible)

F: Well, ur, like if I see this ani something,
looking around or if I look at some pictures of way back in the old

times 4r w* t fiL S4T*CS or something, you know, I just
( ./ 4 J --

9 LUM 195 A

I just think that, uh, get a pencil and paper, and I just think up

words like, I wriGethe title, then I write a few verses of what

I'm going to write, then if I mess it up, you know, I just write

on one side.....I type it on one page of paper, one piece of paper

and then I, well, you know, I just think of more words, ah words

that rhyme and I just write them until I have the whole poem

finished.

B: Um hmm. How do you make out in school with other children who, who..

.... they make any difference between you because you're Indian?

r ". t aV other students?

F: Well, this last, um, this 1 '4" year they have, you know, some

didn't like me, and you know, most of them were up there, you know

teasing about us Indians, you know, and calling us names and stuff

like that, you know, like we weren't no good and they AhQ 8

I V I. _1 .1_ They just didn't like us, as if we

were doing them some harm or something. And so, U,/-c they

B: Um hm. Well, of course, they didn't realize perhaps that the Indian

students are in these schools because they were put there, not because

they want to be there.

F: That's right. See, I suppose that they think that they were better

than us or something like that, or we just came there to that school

to try to get them out or something, you know.

B: Is that getting better now?

F: Well, it just started mainly this last year.

B: Um hmm. Do these udents that would tease you a lot or '' )

sggg=agaam wouldbe lack students or white students?

F: They were black students. You know, because they inm, they, they called
"0 1

( ) 10 LUM 195 A
the names like, or something and '

B: I never heard that before.

F: Yeah, I don't know what it really means ( But they say

ty r -. 2.? O l ''" and stuff like this, you know,

and different things like that, and ah, they'd be writing on the

ground, "Look out for the Indians.", or something. J, .4 f/ik ,#y k

"_ _c Yl_ they going to get somebody or something.

And they hoped that we would stayraway from their schools so they

could have it to, by theirself like they were there first of some-

thing t '' .

B: Is this before you were sent to this school, do you know whether it

was predominantly black or white?

F: Well, it was mixed before I went there, you know, I was in the third

grade when I first went there. Because I used to go to 1 V (4C 6 ,

you know, and that was a white school. And mainly just white went

there--I know of a few blacks went there. /,44 a L-'

you know, they were mixed, Indian and black. Hardly no whites.

B:q JUst about all of them were black Indians?

F: Yes sir.

B: ~4 C / 5^ r ( 4' (WV r 4 X)

F: Well, I don't really know.

B: Well, maybe I shouldn't ask you that question J -" f "

Well, do you have any other problems in school?

F: Well there's some, you know, there's just just teasing about how

I look and stuff

B: How do they say you look? You're very pretty to me.

F: They call, they call me fatso and stuff like that.
B: (oia diA I) I -
How much do you weigh?

F: ( i ':

1] LUM 195 A

B: Well, don't answer that. I wouldn't ask you that, but you don't....

are you overweight? I haven't noticed if you are.

F: Good. Is this overweighted: a hundred? Over, if its over a hundred,

is that overweighted?

B: Well, it depends. I guess it depends on your height and things like

that. But you don't look overweight to me. What other problems

do you have in school?

F: Well, none exactly, but, you know some.

B: This is your little sister coming in here, I'll have to explain that

so people will know what, know what it is. Her little sister

(^ { (. hy And I wish you wouldn't, please.

^ *r-^'J~i U~w ^^*^ ^ r."

Could you tell me what subjects you like best in school?

tveL ^&W "m art. I like reading and art And that's

B: And, do you have decided what you're going to do when you grow up?

Well, I hate to say when you grow up. You're twelve years

old. Soon you're going to be sixteen, and soon eighteen and then

you'll want to be back young again, right?

F: Yes, sir. Like, I'feelr. c right now, like, a lot of parents

ff but I feel like when I when I get on

up, like, a lot of parents now say, like, when they were old, real

old like my grand, my grand mother, she said, she wish she could

have went to school when she was real little._'.-., .

SC would have went every day. But she couldn't go because
of some reason--I forgot. And then she said she was she was real

young then, like I was, you know, like now. And then so often, like

zr llum 195 A

if T was older, then I'd be wishing that I was young. And if

B: We always wish for what we don't have or what we aren't, don't we?

U[I VE C '9I don't know if you've heard this, but

our Indian people didn't have good schools, you know. That was

true of our people back home and probably true of your people too.

But, at least we've got good schools now-- gge schools,

right?

F: Yes, sir.

B: But you don't really worry about these things much, do you?

F: Well, I worry I about when I leave that school I' m L( I'm

worrying about how the other schools are going to be, you know,

children pick on you because they're different, or something, you

know, cause now I' 4f"C e4 'I\ a lot.

B: Um hm. Do they....what is the name of this other school you're

going to?

F: _______ .:_

B: East?

F: Eastman.

B: Eastman School.

F: Eastman High School. So I don't know whether these things are

true or not. All of my friends are going there this year. Some

are already gone. And I don't know how it's going to be, but you

know.

B: Do they make you feel afraid or feel uncertain or what?

F: Well, I mostly feel afraid, like they keep talking about those

older kids, you know, that walk around and pick on the small ones.

And that, whether the teachers are nice to your what. You know

because most, mainly I don't know how it is up there. So I'll

13 LUM 195 A

a
have to see what it's going to be like.

B: Well, I hope it will be very, very nice.

F: Thank you.

B: I hope it'll be a very nice place.

F: Well, I've been up there before and it seemed okay; but, I don't

know about the students, because, you know, I don't know how they

are Inaudible

B: Well, do you think, of course, you don't know, but do you think things

like that are improving?

F: I hope so. I don't really know. But I've been thinking about it

ever since l COU Sh ll c used to go there.

And Ronald, his brother, graduated out there, and he quit, because,

you know, they was playing ball and this boy wanted the ball or

something, you know, and he hurt his arm--twisted it or pushed him

in the ditch or something. And he got kicked--one of my cousins

got kicked in the, you know, in the stomach /1 1 AIt( M4A f ;i 1

B: Well, maybe it, maybe it will be better than you think, huh?

F: I hope so.

B: Do you like to go to church?

F: Yes, sir.

B: I've heard it said that some of the students fall out the first...

This is something you don't really know. I mean, I'm asking you

something that maybe IS j t rti c '' i Wzy

do think some of the, some of our Indian students fall out of

school? Why are they falling out of some of these schools? Do

you have an opinion on it?

F: Well, the main opinion for me is because that they aren't studying,

14 LUM 195 A

studying hard or something--or either ,-r

B: you don't think it's because they're being mistreated but because

they're behind?

F: Yeah, I think that some of that is true. Because some of the Placks

you know, 6 /k 6 'C e And _'__

and it seems like it worries them, you know, it gets i; their iind

and they think 1A 1lt7 f^k
be a problem of it.

B: You're not planning on dropping out, are you?

F: No, sir. I want to finish. And if I can I want to go to college.

B: Right. Well, I hope you make it. And you can if you try hard enough.

Just don't let anybody stop you, and just ignore these people.

F: I wanted to be a nurse, but the way I can't, I can't even stand to

get a shot. (Inaudible)

I can't even stand to give blood or nothing, you know. No way I

can be a nurse.

B: You say ......you think you're going to have to change your mind

F: I would like to be a secretary.

B: Well, you still have time to decide that, A7tYr J .

F: My teacher, my last two teachers j .. .______. ,

she told us it would be best tostart planning ourself before you grow,

grew up, you know. Think about what you wanted to dar4h;t.

15 LUM 195 A

And then, if you find out later on that you couldn't do that,

C4 V if WJ ,1 p something else. And so, we

been thinking about it, you know, she tells us to write about

it, and think about it and how it was to see if that was the

right job and stuff like that.

B: Is your school very big? Are thee very many students?

F: Well, yeah, it's a.........well, it's a big building, you know, it

doesn't have no L you know, it's got a long

hallway.

B: Do they have different classes in school like, you know, in the

same grade like the smart class, the lazy class or the bluebirds

and the blackbirds and the redbirds and things like that?

F: Well, um, they hav ike teacher aids.

B: Like what?

F: Teacherdfids, and they take these ones that aren't doing so well in

the classrooms, you know, and they help them improve a little more

so they can catch up with the rest of the class. And we have four,

four trailers out there. In the building on to the kindergarten

and the sixth grade, ah, fifth grades are in there. And one sixth

grade class and then there's the principal office and stuff like

Sjk .tt> , library, and stuff in there like that.

Then we have an aid room in there, you know, like where you get hurt

^ 'y. And then we have the seventh, we have two.

seventh grades outside in the trailer and one sixth grade. Then we

have another teacher's aid trailer out there where these people,

these students that need special help 4'.t 1 / f'I iC.

B: Do you think teachers treat Indian students any different that they

do aY other students?

F: Well, one or two of them, .__

16 LUM 195 A

B: Yeah. How about discipline? When students do something, what do

they do then? What kind of punishment?

F: When they do something wrong?

B: Um hm.

F: Well, they'll make them or they'll keep them in,

or they'll ground them or something yx like that you know. Or

either they'll paddle them, or something.

B: What is, when you, when they ground you? What does that mean?

F: They make you stay in for about a month, or like, if school hasnt

been too long started, they'll make you stay in about a month.

B: After class?

F: No, ah, you know, at recess.

B: Oh yeah. I see.

F: We have two recesses, and you know, they make you stay in all

through recess, or either two weeks, or four weeks, or something.

B: I see. How about writing themes? Do you have to write...........?

F: Well, sometimes she'll make them stay in, paddle them, first she'll

paddle them them she'll make them stay in and write a whole chapter

or a whole paragraph, read about three paragraphs or one or two

paragraphs out of a book f / then they'll have to

read them Ct( lf H ) / u l tthoy oa write off about

three ) b .. the man teachers heIll

W.k n --h .....ao k them write off about three hundred

B: Have you ever been to Robertson County?

F: No, sir.

17 LUM 195 A
B: Have you met some ob the people who work with o......
o'
at the 1
F: Yeah. I met a whole lot of people coming up here, yoa know, _>

1 CCie f[ kA but n-t a vez i i C I met

whole lot--I met some Mexicans, (inaudible)

I've changed ways a little.

B: You say you've changed ways a little, you mean you improved a little

bit?

F: Yes, sir. Like uh, well, my voice changed, A whole lot of people tell

F: Like, well, some have said l have a pretty voice for singing. Then

some have said I / on account of I talk like

this. And instead of / g "here" and "there", I've got,

well, I started saying "there" and "here". .- t Cd4C

help Dso notice %W 4?vl#$try to talk better. B: That's a test in improving your speech, you mean. F: And then, you know, well, some, like I used to stay around the house here. I do a lot of work, you know. B: What do you like to work at around the house? F: Well, I like to keep the house clean. I like to babysit. B: Do you like to babysit? F: A little. I mean I like to babysit, but when he gets sick, I don't like it. B: Do you work....do you work hard at ej ? .'*** trying to improve your English? 18 LUM 195 A F: I study in school, /n Je ^ PS A /- B: That's why no matter what anybody says __jl _ F: Talk proper. Every time I try to do that, you know, a whole lot of people, well they'll talk irv ritYi- instead of proper. You know, they'll they'll put 't's" and stuff like that on their words, you know, just. Say, say their words, that maybe It r Ae r Sunday sermon stuff's proper, But then, some will try to say a word j Vfr Jtt-3 tY ,^ZfD4m 4 Ca j, Xc4 r B: Well, uh, I'm going to ask you a question about the generation gap. Did you ever hear that term used? F: What, belong to the generation gap? B: Well, it's something like that............. ..The older'people have a generation then the younger have another generation and because of the older people sometimes don't understand the younger people, or the younger people the older people. Then that's called the generation gap. Do you think we have a generation gap? F: For everybody? B: Well, I'm talking about here, people here. F: Yes sir. Because the older people, well, a few of them, you know, they don't understand or they don't like the way you dress and stuff. Some, I don't like some of them. Like these new a C/c-le I don't really like them. B: Like the -_ ., That's a new one on me. Oh I, I guess -) F: You know, they get these blouses and they don't have no _- .C- in 19 LUM 195 A them, or __ ) they got slits coming down and they're just strutting r igwt I don't really like them. B: Do you find it easy to talk to older people? F: Well, some people. B: It depends on who the person is, F: Yes, sir. It depends on the way their life is, You know, like if they lived in another country and they don't, they don't understand what we're saying or something, then they talk. But, like if uh, if it's old, older people around in here or some people that I understand and they understand me, then I, you know, I can talk to them okay. B: Do you find it hard, maybe this is an unfair question, but do you find it hard to talk to me? F: No, sir. Not really. B: We understand each other don't we? Pretty much. F: I think so. If I can get a good, if I can get a good conversation going, you know, then I feel okay and I'm not so nervous to talk to someone. B: Um hm. You don't seem too nervous to me. You seem at ease, or maybe it doesn't show very much. F: Like when I start talking a lot, you know, I get my mi-nd off everything else, you know. B: Except what you're trying to say. It's a good way to kh do it, you know. F: Nothing on my mind except what I'm doing. B: Um hm. I want to ask you a question, and then I want to ask you what you'd like to talk about. How about that? Okay, will that be alright? Okay? Then first, let me ask you the question: If you had to change 20 LUM 195 A anything, if you wanted to change, if you had the power, I'm sorry, I'm not being very clear myself. If you had the power to change anything in this world, in you r community, what would it be? Or would you like to think about that? F: I'd like to change where people are living. And about all this government stuff and I'd 4a4 change this divorce stuff, I B: I understand the divorce stuff, but how about the government stuff? F: Well, I'd try to change about the jails and bring down the prices. B: Oh, I see. F: I would try to give people better schools and more good churches. Might have or something and missionaries to help out and I'd probably give you know, help out the hospitals and supplies that we need and food and bringing down the prices of meat and stuff. And clothing and trying to get them to make more '___ s-tuff, like. Something to cover your body instead of 4A d 4i- B: Instead of what, dear? F: Well, I mean, all, you know, all this stuff, like, you know, tfITS.d o C A C I4c r'.. or something, I'd probably make, you know, to change the ways of dress, B: Okay, that's good. About what, what would you like, if you had to pick some subjects to talk about, what would you like to talk about? F: The main subject is life. B: Life? F: And God. I mean that's the main two. B: Um hm. Well that's .......... A minute ago, I asked you, you know, when we were talking off, off the tape recorder, I asked you to put down a list of things you'd like to talk about and you listed them and the order that you'd rather, you'd like to talk about the things you 21 LUM 195 A wanted to talk about. Would you mind reading the list off for me? FS,,S ir.- - F: Well, God. B: You put, which did you put first? B: Life? F: Well I was meant to bring that one. B: Well, that's alright, I'm sure you,, F: God, life, me, my poems. a TV program, and clothes and (-GWi*, ( and poetry and God. B: That's fine, Okay. We.l1 talk about God first, Is God very near to you? Do you feel that He is very near? F; Yes, sir. Because the Bible says, ir1 JX.M (cd IPJE /ICt He will never say no and stuff like that, you know. It says that and I believe in it you know, that He created the world and he created us. He wanted us to serve Him and, you know, and be good and feel for other people rather than feeling / " B: Um hmm. F: And I like to talk about the way, I like to talk about the soul, Like how the people He, the people that He created and how, and how He di, tLi fJ f 44L Adam. And I like to read the story about Cain and Able, you know, and about MOVS like the ones that He created. I like to talk about the t_ A C_ it B: Have you ever read the 'Most", let's see, I believe it's called, "The Greatest Story Ever Told"? F: I forgot. B: Well, that's the book of many Bible stories. You might enjoy that. Okay, go ahead, I didn't mean to interrupt, F: Well. 22 LUM 195 A B: Tell me what else you feel about God. F: I feel that He helps us in many ways and we ought to, well, try rep-AA r A' re&iro -ft to b4me n, to be something .what He has done for us.. And I think we should love Wkm and more, I mean, I thing, I love Him more than I do anybody, you know, because, He 4Cr^sa" f~ B: T Veaay 1rly F: (inaudible) J J So , B; Do you ever talk in church? Do you get a chance to talk in church? F: Yes, sir. I answer a lot of questions. B: Um hm. Do you ever testify? F: Like preach about Him? B: Do you ever get up and, you know, testify in church? F: Sometimes. B: Tell what the Lord's done for you and things like that. Do you enjoy it? F: Yes sir. B: Um hmm. F: I love to talk about it. B: That's wonderful. And, let's see now, what was the next one? F: Uh, life. B: Okay, let's talk about life. F: Well, I like to talk about the way people are doing and, you know, some people are doing a lot of wrong things. And I'd like to talk about the government, and which I, you know, I donkt think it's honest for them to do the tricks, to do that, because B: Like Watergate, and things like that that are in the news now? 23 LUM 195 A F: Yes, sir. And all about this, you know, they keep, people keep getting hurtzysxkumxaw more, more each day, you knwv. And I think we should try to make some safety things like they do on cars. 64t fk< c CA V f<' )O heu cIt ears and stuff. And motorcycles. And rather that in a whole lot of things that get people killed. And B: Let's see now, what else was it you had down there? F: I like to talk about myself. B: About yourself. That's a good person to talkabout. Let's talk about yourself, okay? F: Well, uh, well, if a person asks me how I feel about _, well then I like to tell them, I like to, I like to show my feelings to someone else the way I feel about. B: Um hmm. F: And I like to tell people, I like to do the right things to do and from the wrong things to do. And I like to, well, I just like to describe the ways of living. And like if a person that maybe I enjoy going to church instead of l 4tJ JD4gL t d Jst> , B: You tell them what? I'm sorry, I didn't understand that. F: Well, like if somebody asks me like, do I like to go to church, you know, I just say, I just tell them that I love to go to church and they should go too. B: Um hm. F: You know, I just tell them how I feek and that I think they should feel sometimes the way that I do, you know. I know everyone has different feelings but everyone should feel the same way about God i oJ . Because I think everyone should love God better than they do anybody else. And a whole lot of people don't. 24 B: Right. I guess you're right. Even better than their.e F: Yes, sir. B: Ot 0 .What else did IA rA^ A/ F: I like to talk about . B: Tell, tell me somemore about you, I want to hear somemore about you. F: Well, I like to talk about **,* B; What F: I don't really know, you know, I just, I just like to describe my feelings but mainly a you know, and tell about how, what I can do or something. And I like to B: Inaudible F: Well, that's about all except I like to tell people what I like to do, and try to be honest with them. And tell, try to show that I"m an honest person. And I try to be nice and show them that I'm nice. B: Um hmm. F: And I like to, I like to tell people that they can trust in me and to make, give them my promise and keep my promise and do them favors. B: That's wonderful. You give somebody a, you make a promise to somebody that you feel that you're duty bound to keep that promise, right? F: I always does it. B: You always do? That's c I4 Okay. Is that all you want to say about yourself? F: Yes. B: Before we go on to the next subject? Okay, what was that next subject you had "" F: Ah, my parents. B: Okay, that's wonderful. You can talk about your parents a long time, can't you? 25 LUM 195 A F: Well, I like to talk about the ways that they help me, you know? And they help me to understand problems that I didn't. And I like to talk about the ways that we live and how my father { ar\ i I , you know, A.f Sk food and stuff. And I like the way my mother, you know, like, when we was sick, you know, she waited on us and my father 1 .. C I different places. You know, I just like to talk, talk about them. And then, well B: inaudible F: __ji__ I like I like to talk abott what they .were doing, you know, and tell them how they, how wrong they are. In a way, you know, because I feel that",, B: >^//you think they're wrong ,*** END SIDE ONE 26 LUM 195 A SIDE TWO B: Would you go ahead and tell uws,what you were telling them when the tape ran out. Do you remember what we were talking about? F: I was talking about my parents. B: Um hmm. F: I like to talk about what, anyway, you know, why they were doing what they were doing wrong. Even though,you know, they were separated, they didn't want to stay with each other. They didn't have to leave us. I mean, I don't feel that it was right for them to leave us, even though we see them. And I don't like the w" my mommata being treated. I don t ever, uh, I always worry about them, you know. I felt that we should be real close or something. You know, I always, we were always close together and I wish we, they were back together again. B: Um hmm. F: And every time you see them, you know, MOj 0l- /. 9 Ci7 y'I ___ l__ aC_ s what they did wrong. They shouldn't have done it and I wish they hadn't done it p B: I see. F: So it makes me feel bad, you know, just talk about what they did a9,14 A / Ik ;-' ( 3 , B: Now what else 6VTW1 T S want to talk about? F: Well, this divorce stuff, t.C-': I ,you know, about including the )rcyfo B: Well, the divorce is a terrible thing. F: To me they are. B: Um hmm. F: Because the Bible says, you know, by aw they're, they are, like if they 27 LUM 195 A had a divorce, then hy law they weren't, they wouldn't be married then. But in God's kingdom, they still are man and wife. B: I see what you mean. F: And so, I think this should be just that same way in life, but there is not. Because, you know, I want them together and I wish that, in a way I wish they had never been dbx / (1 71 9j I' divorced. B: In other words you want them both, don't you? F: Um hm. B: Right. F: And I want them both together. B: Um hmm. And sometimes it is impossible for parents to he together, but naturally you love them both and you'd like to see them together, right? F: Yes, sir. B: Okay, did you say all you wanted to about that? F: That's about all. B: Okay. I'm not rushing you, but my ride is ready. Let's see now, what else did we have to talk about? I want you to talk. I want you to express yourself, okay? F: Alright. I only got, II 1CIe M three more things. B: Well, you go right ahead now. We don't have very many ,'S C_ , F: Well, I like to talk about Ii,9VC4 'ie'- ., the way you dress, you know. I like to get, talk to people about hor do the* _ things and sew and stuff. B: Um hmm. You like to sew? F: Yes, sir. I made this. B: You did? F: Um hmm. 28 B: Very nice. F: Thank you. I like to talk to people about what size and pattern and stuff, you know, you get. And what kind of fabric and what, how to use and how to make the fabric. And I like to tell people that I love to sew, and I like to see them make things, you know, because they look real pretty to me. B: Would you describe, would you describe your outfit? So that our listeners will know. F: Well, it's a little ,d' t'A It's a plain piece dress and it's sleeveless and it's got, it's wide, it's kind of wide at the F__ C _I and small up here. R\ % and it's kind of (4th4'4ef at the shoulders. B: Um hmm. Very nice. What kind of material is that? F: Cotton. B: Cotton. Wy it looks very nice. Let me see. Did you, where did you get, di dyou use a pattern to make that or did you e a F: I used a pattern. B: Um hmm. *" - f-^ 'I see. Let me see. What else could you say about it? F: It has, it zips up in the back. B: It zips up in the back. Um hmm. F: And B: It's nice and soft summer material, isn't it? F: Yes, sir. And its' cool. B: Um hmm. We didn't say anything about the color. F: It's pink. B: UM hmm. 29 LUM 195 A F: It's kind of light red B: Well, it is just a lovely shade of pink. Very light pink, right? F: Yes, sir. B: Um hmm. Wtc( 1_ you're very crea, e, I can see that. F: Thankyou. I like the k4AF- and design and the way that you make the clothes. You know, I think it's real pretty, like you, like if you were drawing a picture. And then you create clothes instead of creating a picture. But it would be almost just like drawing. When t_ ) like we started to talk about the way you fix thej I\ CI. and how to do it or what the main things are you're supposed to have. B: Let me ask you one question about this. Did you think about the color and how its color would match or enhance your complexion? You've got, you're very, y-ou've got very light complexion and it's, ah, did you think, do you think about those things when you're making them? F: Js f ___. I think about I\ tt' I B: How it would look on you, right. You mate it for you didn't you? F: Yes, sir. B: Right. That's right. That's the way it should be. I like that. Go ahead now. I didn't mean to interrupt. F: Well e I well I guess should talk about the way I make them and how they'll look, You know, I don't like really all these real fancy things that are coming out now. And, well I just like plain stuff, you know, just plain clothes. I like to talk about the way you supposed to fix the tail or adjust the hemline or the shoulder parts. And I like to look through the book and choose patterns. I like to look and find the notions or what you need, like a dress, or 6 O f and zippers and xKkffix buttons or buttonholes or And, you know, that s about all. You know, and I like to look at stuff with other people. 30 LUM 195 A B; Um hmm. Well, let's see now. What else do you want to talk about? F; Poetry. B: Come on, Let's talk about poetry. F: Well, one reason why I like to talk about poetry because it expresses my feelings and I don't have to do a lot of talking. You, know, just write it. B: And you can say it in a few words? What you feel in a few words? F: Yes sir. You know, I don't have to go B S this like a speech. B: Um hmm. F: And I just write it down and let people read it instead of just going out and just telling about it. You know, I write about poems because I like, well, most things, the main thing is because I just like to do it. B: Um hmm. That's a good reason. F: And I like it because it's pretty, you know, and f dr" ;F, I always l -to have if And so that's one reason why I like it because if youcan have verses E LC Si \ And you have to put the words together to make them pretty and peen You have to use something special. You know. And I just like to write them down I like to put them in my cards and make cards. And I like to hear other people read their poems. And I like to read my own. and just abnat different things.. B: Will you read some of my poems and tell me the honest truth about the way you feel about them? F: Yes sir. 31 LUM 195 A B: ) I'll choose fve e I think you might like. That would, you know, that al6 Tin r Okay. Now, what else did you want to talk about? F: Drawing. B: Okay. F: Um, I like to draw pictures of the world, you know, the flowers,. the trees, and the backgrounds of the world. I like to draw parts of people. I like to draw people. And I like to make designs, just just plain designs. Maybe mixed up colors and stuff. And I like to 1 FC4 e. 1 ( 41 paint water colors and I like- rC'Af C .And I ike to make fe+&lC es. And the create them with the home. I like to draw because, you know, you learn more about yourself, because the more you learn to draw you learn about how you look. You learn ahout your eyes and your face and you see how you really look, yOu'll see how other people look and you'll try to draw them and like they are in person. And, well, I guess I just got one more reason why xxxxxxx I like to draw--I guess I draw because I love it. B: Could, would you draw me sometime? F: I'll try. B: __r(tC And would you draw me honestly like you see me? F: try. 32 LUM 195 A B: As well as you can. F: Yes sir. B: I appreciate that and write me a poem and write me a few-'.tein _______ p__and I'll let you see some of mine. If I can help you I will, okay? F: Okay. B: Will we be poetry buddies? F:q Yes sir. B; Okay. Now I want to ask you one more thing. Do you have one last word you'd like to say to other young peopleyour age? F: Well, B: And I have one more correction, but go ahead and say it. F: I hope this world turns out to be better than it already is, and I hope that the cost of living comes down !eea and I hope the world ix B: Did you ever take an I.Q. test? F: For what, for my eyes? C -7 0-S B: An I.Q. test.li,n 1V'4lX'c laugh. You know how high your I.Q. is? F: I don't know what that is. B: Well, it's a sort of test that you take at school to measure your intelligence quotient. F: Oh. B: I.Q. means intelligence quotient. F: Like a test? B: Um hmm. F: Yes, sir. I took that in about....I didn't-reire_____ 33 LUM 195 A Well, I think mine turned out to be okay, you know. B: But you don't know how okay, do you? F: Uh uh. B: )1M t jf9 extra okay. F: It was hard, hard. B: It was kind of, your rating was pretty good? F: I think so. B: That s nice. I want to thank you so very much for this. You've been such a wonderful interviewee, I think. Itre enjoyed this and it's helped us a lot and, now is there anything else you want to talk about? F: Well, nothing just about, about all for right now. B: Um hmm. Well, thank you so very much- 67 .A) F: You're welcome. B: Bye. F: Bye. Full Text PAGE 1 Russ Hyden 1 LUM 195 A B: This is July 2, 1974. I'm Lew Barton, interviewing for the University of Florida's HistoryDepartment's American Indian Oral History Program. F: B: F: This afternoon, we are near Hollister, North Carolina, and we are in the home of, would you tell us your mother's name, please, dear? My grandparents? Your home, here. Where are we right now? Mrs. a. t G,,-k~J~ â€¢~ house? B: Right. What is your name? F: Esther Ann Richardson. B: How old are you? F: Twelve. B: What do you want me to call you? F: Faye. B: Faye? Okay, I'll aall you Faye. Faye, are you in shool? F: Yes sir. B: What grade are you in? F: I passed to the seventh. B: You passed to the seventh this past year? F: Yes, sir. B: Do you go? You don't go to an Indian school anymore, do you? F: (inaudible) B: We used we used to go to Indian schools, black schools and white schools, and now they're all integrated, aren't they? F: Yes, sir. B: And you go to a what they call an integrated school. Where do you jo -1-o /!ilk... I/, /11 ? PAGE 2 2 LUM 195 A F: ,.-/) Al I ... ..b"""""'rfo:,....:;.o;.._-&..,___;;;......._V_' _;_,_,._(;_v_4P1..;.. it'i,~;ll."..;,;e--'___ Elemen tary School. to go to f/,q llow11 6 B: Did you used Indian School, didn't you? F: No, sir. B: You never did go there? F: No, sir. B: But you know they did have a school there, but you weren't old enough to go then, were you? F: Well, I was old enough, but I started to another school. B: You were going to another school. F: Yes, sir. B: What is your, would you tell me about your mormny, and your daddy and your sisters and brothers? F: B: F: Well, uh, let's see. I have three sisters. One named Lisa, and the other one's Kim, and the other one's (Ct)ra ?J. And my monnna's name is Nancy, and my daddy's name is Odom. And I have a little half-brother named Adam. And I have a little half-sister named Marsha. How about your last name, ? ---------B: (Inaudible) F: (naudible) B: Now, could you give me their ages? F: Lisa is eight. Kim is six. And Paula is four. And Marsha is two. And Adam is about ten months old B: . /Jf11-/,J.l1 How about you? F: I'm twelve. B: You're twelve. That's a nice age to be, isn't it? F: Well, it'_s okay. PAGE 3 3 LUM 195 A B: You want to be older or younger? Or, do you wish you weren't as olti as you are? F: Well, it's a hard decision because if I was older, I wauld be wishing that I was younger. And if I was real young, I would be wishing I was real old .. B: I guess we're never really satisfied, are we? B: We I re all that way, aren't we? F: Um hm. B: What's your favorite course in school? What do you like, one of your courses that, like English? F: Reading. B: Reading? F: Yes sir. B: What are some of the things that you enjoy reading best? F: Well, I like to read stories about, well stories about God '.r(.r/)1 e . I like to read most stories about God, then I like to read adventure stories .... 1 _____ -if7~i:t,""":_/__,,e;;;. -..,,,,$.,__ _____ , or something. B: :x:Tllmmx Where do you go to church? F: Yes sir. B: Where do you go 1 F: I go to St.' ah, Modnt':Gideon t tlst Church. B: Do you lare a pretty good Sunday School? Pretty good sized Sunday F:

PAGE 4

4 LUM 195 A B: That's a good size. I mean a good Sunday School. You might have a, you might get to a hundred after a while. F: I hope so. B: Do you go' every Sunday? F: Not exactly. Almost. B: Are you a little lazyfabout going to church on Sunday? I couldn't ASk you that, could I? Maybe that't not a fair question. Do you like to go to Sunday School? F: Yes sir. B: How about school? F: Well, it's okay. I love to go to school, but I hate getting up in the morning. B: Are you, are you proud to be an Indian? F: Yes, sir. Well, Id don't really like it. B: You've never been anything else, so you couldn't really say. That maybe that's not a fair question to ask, is itZ I think Indian people are wonderful. F: Thank you. B: I'm glad to be one, too. What kind of hobbies, what do youdo, what do you like to do best? F: Well,I like to sew. I like to read. I like to sing and play instrumen ts. liel 1, I love to play) sometimes) Yes. B: You like to work once in a while, but not too often. What kind of F: grades do you make? Well, I make 1f!_ .. ~1,l ,yâ€¢t ,;~{, good grades, every year, so far. I havent failed a year. I made some, you know, A's and the lowest one that I got is a c. B: And you're going to be in the you said you finished the the seventh, didn't you?

PAGE 5

5 LUM 195 A F: No, I passed to the seventh, you know. And this year when I go back, I'll be in the seventh. B: I see. Do you like English? F: I like it some, but I get mixed up in the verbs and stuff. B: Do yo4sing? F: Yes, sir. B: Would you sing me something? F: The whole thing? B: You don't have an instrument, do you? F: No, sir. But I can sing without one. B: Okay, that would be fine. F: Want me to give you the name of it? B: Um hm. What kind of songs do you like best? F: Well, I like to sing Christian songs, you know. You know, clean songs. I don't the rock. B: You don't like the ? F: I like a few of them, not much. B: What are some of the one's you do like? F: Well, that's hard to decide. Uh, let me see. I like some songs like I don't really know. It's hard it 1 s a:hard decision. I like some of them that tell about people's /i{(,$or something. But I {lt~ > rock and roll, don't like the onesbthat ~h, all this uh, <1vftlC.t1\S J, ..... -~. _. and soul music and jazmpjng up and down andrtrlfl' " B: You don't go for that, do you? F: No, sir. B: I see. Well, what you going to sing for us? PAGE 6 6 LUM 195 A F: Uh, I'm going to sing a song ti!B: Um hmm. That's good. Just pitch right in any time you feel like it. F: Ooooo ho~e. There's a beautiful ho~e. Ooooo high. Yes, my Lord. Lord I wonder, will I ever Go home for the Son. In another year. I 1 11 know dear Lord Dead and gone. But lord I wonder Will I ever go home Ooooo home. There's a beautiful home. Ooooo home. Yes, my Lord. Lord I wonder, will I eve~ Lord_, Go home. B: Hey, I like that. ~:x:idmx:ks:x.xe:JgCXHXER.I like that very much. F: B: F: Thank you. Where did youlearn that? . ,/ Well, uh, onc~;(;is M{i,r,1,$J.,~) Jv lv'ltS fou/ 't,y parent",,. .a And they had this record, and it had this song on there and I kept listening to it and they kept playing it over and over and it was a Christian song. And I liked it so much that I started, you know, studying on it, and I got the hang of it singing it, and then, my father and I, we started going to church and then I startedd singing learned ' e/11 -Jo .L!J it. Then he laJmm some songs and we sang a:c:d:c:f:Tl 11-f'. But I started singing it over and over until we got used to it. B: I wish I had my guitar along so we can sing tosether. F: I can sing better, like when my father plays the, his guitar, or something.

PAGE 7

7 LUM 195 A B: I'm sure every, anybody can sing bettn: with musical tJ..C(07i~J~tn~ 1 l,J What else do you like? What other songs-do you like to sing? What song do you love -J.o I 1'..C ' ---o-F: Well, it's a various hymn. Not the fool songs or something. B: Do you want to do another one? F: Christian song? )lo B: .-,you pick I want you to pick it. Which one, whichever one you like to sing. F: A school or a Christian song? I don't really know which one to sing, I'd rather sing a Christian song.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx B: Okay. That's fine. F: sxxI'll sing Amaeing Grace. B: Okay. F: Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound. That saved a wretch like me. I once was lost, but now I'm found Was blind, but now I see. And grace will leave me f J L / ' t . .., ; ' .~ â€¢, cf_ t' 1 ... ,.. ,,!I,~ i 1 'I:_ ., .,, '6',,.. ' i ..... , ... .... !:;~-...... '--__ ~_.,_, ____ ___ , --~,.,. g T'l51,.f,i,'M-shining $J the sun. not. PAGE 8 8 LUM 195 A Jt.t v "m f :t._S1 rr (} r f, .n :'d trl :r /hA ; fc. 1/1r111__UJ 1wtt ~ 1-fiv-.!t &f;t u-e ':f. B: Um hmm, I like that. You said you liked church songs, or Christian songs, now uh, better than the others? Or school songs? F: Yeah. B: Well, that's good. Maybe you'll do you sing in church? F: Yes, sir. B: You help out in church singing. F: Yes, sir. B: Well, that's good. Do you have a little choir in church? F: I think we're gathering together some people up there now, you know, to make us a, I don' t knowâ€¢ t& Jh4M , but the more and more that we have service up there, you know, more people start to sing. 80 I figure we're going to have a little choir or something. B: Okay. Faye, you like to write pee try? F: B: F: B: F: B: F: Yes, sir. Do youlike to ~ite poems? What do youwrite about? Well, I write about hard times~t:rt:~le /;~,f.c f p: ", Um hnnn. im:X3C1aHX Will you let me see some of your poems sometime. Yes, sir. Cause I write poems and I teach writing poetry in schooll 1fl"" / PAGE 9 9 LUM 195 A I just think that, uh, get a pencil and paper, and I just think up words like, I writtethe title, then I write a few verses of what I'm going to write, then if I mess it up, you know, I just write on one side I type it on one page of paper, one piece of paper and then I, well, you know, I just think of more words, ah words that rhyme and I just write them until i have the whole poem finished. B: Um hmm. How do you make out in school with other children who, who F: they make any difference between you because you're Indian? t U i. r, J,_ '7 /i,r J.(. OllfI' other s tu~en ts 1 Well, this last, um, this (~1 ':) -fI year they have, you know, some didn't like me, and, you know, most of them were up there, you know teasing about us Indians, you know, and calling us names and stuff like that, you know, like we weren't no good and they A,,A~(c 11'.r,.f I!l ., (' / f .. . ,t l ~-'( tâ€¢.'t ',(' f!J."r n4u ,n ,.)â€¢-: cThey just didn't like us, as if we were doi~g them some harm or something. And so, l,,.l l! .. f J a they ,, just talked about us. B: Um hm. Well, of course, they didn't realize perhaps that the Indian students are in these schools because they were put there, not because they want to be there. F: That's right. See, I suppose that they think that th~y were better than us or something like that, or we just came there to that school to try to get them out or something, you know. B: Is that getting better now? F: B: F: Well, it just started mainly this last year. ,, .,,. ,'I, I J' ,, ,'.; I ---; (. : \I, â€¢. ,., U h Do th t d t th t ld t a lot Or _r_. ',!i '1 , , '! . , ,. m nm. ese f. u en s a wou ease you __ _.;,..____ , .. 1 1t ,.., s~H1-n woul5\be ~lack students or white students? They were black students. Y~u know, because they lim, they, they called 0 PAGE 10 F: But they say and different things like that, and ah, they'd be writing on the ground, "Look out for the Indians.", or something .::i1~ ,,,{ /;k( t't,,,.~ . /J "ft -r(t_v .s_..,~ ",(,\ f they going to get somebody or something. And they hoped that we would stay: away from their schools so they could thing have it to, by theirself like A .", VJ1J\t ,/}( (vY .. .f '((( '.( they were there first of someB: Is this before you were sent to this school, do you knli7W whether it was predominantly black or white? F: Well, it was mixed before I went there, you know, I was in the third grade when I first went there. Because I used to go to /(J/ ic (:: B:q F: B: F: B: you know, and that was a white school. And mainly just white went ; .,,... . ~ 1 T '1 there--! know of a few blacks went there. 1, t.J,-,.e,~., .. _ (a.-!~~.l t, '[,j you know, they were mixed, Indian and black. Hardly no whites. JUst about all of them were black Indians? Yes sir. 1';:'~dili~~ fl..t 8/r,c '"ii .t. ? Well, I don't really know. ' i 11 r 1 ' . ,,,..., _., t" _,.â€¢,{II IA Well, maybe I shouldn't ask you that question-o:'7ikrt-r., t. ' ::, .. Well, do you have any other problems in school? F: Well there's some, you know, there's just, just teasing about how I look and stuff B: How do they say you look? You're very pretty to me. F: They call, they call me fatso and stuff like that. B: (iaae:uUblse) ;4w, ~Ir -tf.c: .. -~~~rn How much do you weigh? F: ~uand:tb '.1:6' PAGE 11 ]] LUM 195 A B: Well, don't answer that. I wouldn't ask you that, but you don't are you overweight? I haven't noticed if you are. F: Good. Is this overweighted: a hundred? Over, if its over a hundred, is that mverweighted? B: Well, it depends. I guess it depends on your height and things like that. But you don't look overweight to me. What other problems F: B: F: do you have in school? Well, none exactly, but, you know some. This is your little sister coming in here, I'll have to explain that so people will know what, know what it is. Her little sister I i I_ f. l'-A prj-. i ; . ( C-' " ;_ 1 And I wish you wouldn't, please .. ,., ~, , r " Jt ' t\f I (~ \; L" _/; ;t' I ,-,,. ,~ 11 :m~ ~-, \:..1 ;,1 .'.-,; 'i . .-,.1 .. rA ,~~."' :,-! \, ,; 1 r:-â€¢.-':.' fJ ti:. 6 Ii s;; 1 J..;_, f:'--::-r\ r-> i ,:;C~ {;-, , ,{n ,:: t-.r, ~; -â€¢\ t Could you tell me what subjects you like best in school? I , . ,-'_ <"~:/ ........ c l't Mostly reading, and f j r, tV"'' _ ..,...,,, , but I like reading i--f/.-..,â€¢ ' 1 O {t r.l ~~~>-( ,.,.,.r s=&.;(;,.f. l,.,i(: Ve,, J't I\ .... ""lfflf.' art. I like reading and artl\ And that's about all, except that B: And, do you have decided what you're going to do when you grow up? F: Well, I hate to say, when you grow up. You're twelve years old. Soon you're going to be sixteen, and soon eighteen and then you'll want to be back youn~ again, right? Yes, sir. Like, I 1 feelr: :>~ right now, like, a lot of parents fff f ,,, J ' \ i':'.c , .. -1.-,. but I feel like when I when I get on ,. "~ ,, :, .. J: ' up, like, a lot of parents now say, like, when they were old, real old like my grand, my grand mother, she said, she wish she could have went to school when she was real little.~/~.~--~--~:_-~:--~--'-----fu, would have went every day. But she couldn't go because of some reason--I forgot. And then she said she was , she was real young then, like I was, you know, like now. And then so often, like PAGE 12 ll.. tum 195 A if I was older, then I'd be wishing that I was young. And if B: We always wish for what we don I t have or what we arent, don't we? , , r J1 , r .. -.~,~,,\,, W( f Jen "flt.OJ.( U) V (t.â€¢~ilr don't know if you've heard this, but our Indian people didn't have good schools, you know. That was true of our people back home and probably true of your people too. Ar~,. f 11e.cJ But, at least we've got good schools now-- â€¢,.,~~schools, right? F: Yes, sir. B: But you don I t really worry about these things much, do you? F: Well, I worry I vbout when I leave that school :{' f"'.e.,t( . I'm l worrying about how the other schools are going to be, you know, cause they say ~om.e bad:things about the other school, like the children pick on you because they're different, or something, you know, cause nowt; r {,cft!(e.J 'tile a lot. B: Um hm. Do they what is the name of this other school you're F: B: F: B: going to? ~/!,,..;. ... ,.,_ '. V'VI-> .t~rr .. East? Eastman. Eastman School. F: Eastman High School. So I don't know whether these things are true or not. All of my friends are going there this year. Some are already gone. And I don't know how it's going to be, but you know. B: Do they make you feel afraid or feel uncertain or what? F: Well, I mostly feel afraid, like they keep talking about those older kids, you know, that walk aroitmd and pick on the small ones. And that, whether the teachers are nice to youor what. You know because most, mainly I don't know how it is up there. So I'll PAGE 13 13 LUM 195 A a have to see what it's going to be like. B: Well, I hope it will be very, very nice. F: Thank you. B: I hope it'll be a very nice place. F: Well, I've been up there before and it seemed okay; but, I don't know about the students, because, you know, I don't know how they ~ ( -fe.;_ (.. ( \.( ,U'". I II I H are_, _______ Inaudible ______ _ B: Well, do you think, of course, you don't know, but do you think things like that are improving? F: I hope so. I don't really know. But I've been thinking about it ever since ___ i_J-+-_C_O_U_._S_t_,_1+)--~-c:::.;_~_-. ____ used to go there. And Ronald, his brother, graduated out there, and he quit, because, you know, they was playing ball and this boy wanted the ball or something, you know, and he hurt his arm--twisted it or pushed him in the ditch or something. And he got kicked--one of my cousins got kicked in the, you know, in the stomach t /n... l. f,;\t,t1 I.Adrt!d>( 1c, "/ 1 /';'( /(;.y,';1/ff: ~L, '1 (/ e/'11\f ., " B: Well, maybe it, maybe it will be better than you think, huh? F: I hope so. B: Do you like to go to church? F: Yes, sir. B: I've heard it said that some of the students fall out the first This is something you don't really know. I mean, I'm asking you . ... ... <: c. , , r .J\ ,~ i , something that maybe f S t f ., 'i r .. t. ,1 . WY do think some of the, some of our Indian students fall out of school? Why are they falling out of some of these schools? Do you have an opinion on it? F: Well, the main opinion for me is because that they aren't studying, PAGE 14 14 LUM 195 A stdying hard or something--or either ,,,r -------B: you don't think it's because they're being mistreated but because they're behind? F: Yeah, I think that some of that is true. Because some of the Blacks you know, _y'M f~ f /,efl(.,J: If bid, o , t,-ke ~e 11 And {v./?lfJ and it seems like it worries them, you know, it gets ip their mind /!_ L/1 I foJI.OJ and they think d(;,(/)Vf M\tn,J ,,,;t,.J so that may be a problem of it. B: You're not planning on dropping out, are you? F: No, sir. I want to finish. And if I can I want to go to college. B: Right. Well, I hope you make it. And you can if you try hard enough. Just don't let anybody stop you, and just ignore these people. F: I wanted to be a nurse, but the~way I can't, I can't even stand to get a shot. (Inaudible) I can't even stand to give blood or nothing, you know. No way I can be a nurse. B: You say you think you're going to have to change your mind about that because S 11trt,(),' ' ". You might get adjusted to that. F: B: F: I would like to be a secretary. u ? /) _ .. -.I-~ "Tflf ;,, /cWell, you still have time to decide that, tJ,!()7\,J r= . My teacher, my last two teachers _ _i-._--J--1â€¢.'""u__~_{ __ k_~---------she told us it would be best tostart planning ourself before you grow, grew up, you know. Think about what you wanted to _.+h iri I::. PAGE 15 15 LUM 195 A And then: if you find out later on that you couldn I t do that, . !+1(A.1(M: D1) wiih. something else. And so, we been thinking about it, you know, she tells us to write about it, and think about it and how it was to see if that was the right job and stuff like that. B: Is your school very big? Are thaee very many students1 F: Well, yeah, it's a well, it's a big building, you know, it doesn I t have no ____ ( __ ~_J_ _ _____ , you know, it I s got a long hallway. B: Do they have different classes in school like, you know, in the same grade like the smart class, the lazy class or the bluebirds and the blackbirds and the redbirds and things like that? F: Well, um, they havfikt,;tj;er aids. B: Like what? F: Teacherlaids, and they take these ones that aren't doing so well in the classrooms, you lnow, and they help them improve a little more so they can catch up with the rest of the class. And we have four, four trailers out there. In the building on to the kindergarten and the sixth grade, ah, fifth grades are in there. And one sixth grade class and then there's the principal office and stuff,like tutf.:fuduif,i. ) library, and stuff in there like that. Then we have an aid room in there, you know, like where you get hurt) . And then we have the seventh, we have two. seventh grades outside in the trailer and one sixth grade. Then we have another teacher's aid trailer out there where these people, these students that need special help J1> IA â€¢fftttC.,. B: Do you think teachers treat Indian students any different than they do 11/!!!f other students? F: Well, one or two of them, -------- PAGE 16 16 LUM 195 A B: Yeah. How about discipline? When students do something, what do they do then? What kind of punishlment? F: When they do something wrong? B: F: Um hm. Well, they' 11 make them {,dri fe , or they' 11 keep them in, -------or they'll ground them or something like that, you know. Or either they'll paddle them, or something. B: What is, when you, when they ground you? What does that mean? F: They make you stay in for about a month, or like, if school hasnt been too long started, they'll make you stay in about a month. B: After class? F: No, ah, you know, at recess. B: Oh yeah. I see. F: We have two recesses, and, you know, they make you stay in all through recess, or either two weeks, or four weeks, or something. B: I see. How about writing themes? Do you have to write ? F: Well, sometimes she'll make them stay in, paddle them, first she'll paddle them them she'll make them stay in and write a whole chapter or a whole paragraph, read about three paragaaphs or one or two paragraphs out of -+---4"--"'-'-~'---, then they'll have to , k --/1' read them --=W-~--=-..z...;::...;;:;.--:::.&.&-=-~---unt:il th&!f aan write off about three ),__o<: ____ ___ .._l, .... a.._) _____ the man teache;i;,:;; _ev ....... ,...:. l ..... l'----r\1Ak e -hM..es. ~uo oeos ,,ha ~â€¢~a them w,r:~te off about three hundred B: Have you ever been to Robertson County? F: No, sir. PAGE 17 17 LOX 195 A B: Have you met some o~ the people who work witn_â€¢tf'!Y'.q....;;..:;..;.... ____ _ at the \t:~ f( qvv School here? F: Yeah. I met a whole lot of people condng up here, yo* know, ~uJ.-fu b.e. ~"ice: iowt'\ , but B:t -e w,e!I!, l:"L th .. c ~2 I met whole lot--I met some Mexicans, (inaudible) I've changed ways a little, B: You say youâ€¢ve changed ways a little, you mean you improved a little bit? F: Yes, sir. Like uh, well, my voice changed, A whole lot of people tell \ me about my voice. B: What about your voice? F: Like, well, some have said l have a pretty voice ~or singing, Then some have sa:ta I~Slc-, 7 ;t //~ fO~"-.. on account of I talk like this. And instead of N,. St-r.:f i!f well, I started saying "there 111 and 11 here 11 "here" and "there", tâ€¢ve got, c~;_,f help !,Ill notice := __ 17.JL-_.tr._,~~-l____ 7 ________ try to talk better. B: That's a test in improving your speech, you mean. F: And then, you know, well, some, like I used to stay around the house here. I do a lot of work, you know. B: What do you like to work at around the house? F: Well, I like to keep the house clean. I like to babysit. B: Do you like to babysit? F: A little. I mean I like to babysit, but when he gets sick, I donâ€¢t like it, B: Do you work do you work hard at ~4 ... trying to improve you:i;English? PAGE 18 18 LUM 195 A l study in school, 11, +e~c.-~ lt.u,,fs 1r!ji"-J-dokAf1h.C-/r>,n, That's why no matter what anybody says i'Q()Jt a.,+,fb fk~~,f-~G11,, F: B: F: Talk proper. Every time I try to do that, you know, a whole lot of people, well they'll talk /"';rl', _rif,t instead of proper. You know, they, they'll put 't 1 s" and stuff like that on their words, you know, just. Sc1.y, say their words, #!if that maybe, ~kn,~yr":,,. hta. J Sunday sermon stuffâ€¢s proper. But then, some will uy to say a word ,1 F J~~//J~ 1 -d-olf~ra,, '1eâ€¢ f B: Well, uh, f'm going to ask you~ question about the generation gap. Did you ever hear that term used? F: What, belong to the generation gap? B: Well, it's something like that i The olderpeople have a generation then the younger have another generation and because of the older people sometimes don't understand the younger people, or the younger people the older people. Then that 1 s called the generation gap. Do you think we have a generation , gap? F: For everybody? B: Well, l'm talking about here, people here. F: Yes sir. Because the older people, well, a few of them, you know, they don't understand or they don't like the way you dress and stuff. u I f 1, ,, Some, I don't like some of them. Like these new ((Jet. Ci(-Ou_. S:. B: I don't really like t~em. 'l, 1, Like the$-Ln"2,,t,J ifC..(~ -o"t..f../. That's a new one on me. Oh I, F: I guess r k:_,W â€¢' You know, they get these blouses and they don't have no ha..c.fc in

PAGE 19

19 LUX 195 A s~ them, or ) they got slits coming down and they're just strut ting /)_ ro IA ttR I don' t really like them. B: Do you find it easy to talk to older people? F: Well, some people. B: It depends on who the person is. F: Yes, sir. lt depends ontheway their life is, Yo:u,know, like ;(f they lived in another country and they don't, they don't understand what we're saying or something, then they talk. But, like if uh, if it's old, older people around in here or some people that I understand and they understand me, then I, you know, I can talk to them oll:ay. B: Do you find it hard, i:naybe this is an unfair question, but do you find it hard to talk to me? F: No, sir. Not really. B: We understand each other don't we? rretty :much. F: I think so. If I can get a good, if I can get a good conversation going, you know, then I feel olay and I'm not so nervous to talk to someone. B: Um hm. You don't seem too ne:r:vous to me. You seem at ease, or maybe it doesn't show very much. F: Like when I start talking a lot, you know, I get my mi~nd off_ef=-=__ _ _____ everything else, you know. B: Except what you're trying to say. It's a good way to kR do it, you know. F: Nothing on my mind except what I'm doing. B: Um hm. I want to ask you a question, and then l want to ask you what you'd like to talk abottt. How about that? Okay, will that be alright? Okay? Then first, let me ask you the question: If you had to change

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21 LUM 195 A wanted to talk about. Would you mind reading the list off for me? ~s.,.sir ...... F: /l Well, God. B: You put, which did you put first? F: 5 p\A,+ UdlN\J! frsf-, B: Life? F: Well I was meant to bring that one. B: Well, that's alright, l'Im 1:,uxe you~. F: f' r(nf.! ,rA 'f\S, God, life, me, my p.ees. a TV program. and clothe1:, and# ~Wâ€¢e-and poetry and God. B: That's fine, Okay. We."!Ll talk about God ;f;irst, ;I;s God very near to you? Do you feel that He is very near? , F: Yes, sir. Because the Bible says; J_/,.oiA. tJ ltPVCt' t~'-1(;. He will never say no and stuff like that, you know~ lt says that and I believe in it you know, that He created the world and he created us. He wanted us to serve Him and, you know, and be good and feel for other people rather than feeling c:fo-r: B: Um hnnn. F: And I like to talk about the way, I like to talk about the soul. Like how the people He, the people that He created and how, and how He~ PALl 1~-,g~ at~Adam. And I like to read the story about Cain and Able, you know, and about the ones that He created. I like to talk about the frl O S,.f $like L;I\A \A et,J,1~ :J ---------B: Have you ever read the ''Most", let's see, I believe it's called, "The Greatest Story Ever Told"? l:: I forgot. B: Well, that's the book of many Bible stories. You might enjoy that. Okay, go ahead, I didn't 11ean to interrupt. :F: Well. PAGE 22 22 LUM 195 A B: Tell me what else you feel about God~ F: I feel that He helps us_ in many way:s and we o.u~ht to, well, try r.t,.fttrrt )l'\ ff.., B: to aaao9'e, to be somethingA-â€¢what He has done for us And I think we should love Mm, and more, I mean, I thing, I love Him more than I do anybody, you know-, because, He Cr.t...evk/. : ;}w4'..t~ f-~ 1-J-~, i..tt ~,f,,f lu. Atre. ,RE.:a11::rr T'r~ l:J ': ., (inaud;i,ble) J: f J So , B; Do you ever ;~lk. in church.? Do you get a chance to talk. in church.? F: Yes, sir. I answwer a lot of questions. B: Um fun. Do you ever testify? F: Like preach about Him? B: Do you ever get up and, you know, testify in church? F: Sometimes. B: Tell what the Lord ts done for you and things like that. Do you enjoy it? F: Yes sir. B: Um hmm. F: I love to talk about it. B: That's wonderful. And, let~s see now, what was the next one? F: Uh, life. B: Okay, let's talk about life. F: Well, I like to talk about the way people are doing and, rou know, some people are doing a lot of wrong things. And I. t:d like to talk about the government, and which I, you know, I donl:t think. it's honest for them to do the tricks, to do that, because B: Like Watergate, and things like that that are in the news now? PAGE 23 23 LUM 195 A F: Yes, sir. And all about ttia, yon know:-, they keep, people keep getting li.urt:JSJBHxklmwmore, more each day, you knli!W. And I think we should try to make some safety things like they do on cars. /J . JI ' .... c J..,. IJ . . ,nv~" let/ l.,~.AArf-< /l'e~ n,... l.h~e_l . ew, .,. cars and stuff. And motorcycles. And rather tlian in a whole lot of things that get people killed. And B: Let's see now, what else was it you had down there? F: I like to talk about myself. B: About yourself. That "s a good person to talkabout. Let 's talk about F: yourself, okay? Well, uh, well, if a person asks me how I feel about t3en I like to tell them, I like to, I like to show my feelings to someone else the way I feel about. B: Um hmm. well F: And I like to tell people, I like to do the right things to do and from the wrong things to do. And I like to, well, I just like to describe the ways of living, And like if a person that.maybe I enjoy going to church PAGE 24 ---------24 B: Right. I guess you lre right. .r-"lutS ? Even better than their~ F: B: F: B: F: Yes, sir. O, I<, . What else did wel11t i,t h~rl I like to talk allout M,7 .s..~/f: Tell, tell me somemore about you, I want to hear somemore about you. Well, I like to talk about , , â€¢, What F: I don tt really know, you know, I just, I just like to describe my feelings but mainly / u_ h f7 k , you know, and tell about how, what I can do or somethi~g. And I like to B: Inaudible F: Well, that's about all except I like to tell people what I like to do, and try to be honest with them. And tell, try to show that I"m an honest person. And I try to be nice and show them that I'm nice. B: Um hmm. F: And I like to, I like to tell people that they can trust in me and to make, give them my promise and keep my promise and do them favors. B: That's wonderful. You give somebody a, you make a promise to somebody that you feel that you're duty bound to keep that promise, right? F: I always does it. B: You always do? That's Stf tf f, . Okay. Is that all you want to say about yourself? F: Yes. B: Before we go on to the next suBject? Okay, what was that next subject you had.,.-.,' F: Ah, my parents. B: Okay, that's wonderful. You can talk about your parents a long time, can '-t ou? PAGE 25 25 LUM 195 A F: Well-, I lik.e to talk about the ways that they help me, you know? And they help me to understand problems that I didn't. And I lik.e to talk about the ways that we live and how my fatherf r (\ i~hetl ,l.f.S. you know, ~()'\ iSM: food and stuff. And I like the way my mother, you know, like, when we was sick, you know, she waited on us and my father hJ&ift '1~ fl f!"'{Jc{,~ dfli!cent places. You know, I just like to talk, talk. aoout them. And then, well B: inaudible F: .J:.--/t., n/(.. , I lik.e., I like to talk about what they ,were doing, you know, and tell them how they, how wrong they are. In a way, you know, because I feel thatâ€¢â€¢â€¢t B: #/.,(4'. you think they're wrong END SIDE ONE PAGE 26 ~--------------------------26 um 195 A SIDE Tl{() B: Would you go ahead and tell us.c.what you were telling them i,fuen the. tape ran out. Do you remeni6er what we were talking about? F: I was talking a flout my parents .â€¢ B: Um funm. F: I like to talk about what, anyway-, you know, wh-ytheywere doing B: F: B: F: B: F: B: F: B: J!': what they were doing wrong. Even though, you know, they were separated, they didn tt want to stay with each other. They didn ,,-t have to leave us. I mean, I dont feel that it was right for them to leave us, even though we see them. And I don't like the my momma' s, being treated. I don~t ever, uh, I always worry about them, you know. I felt that we should be real close or something. You know, I always, we were always close together and I wish we, they were back together again. Um hmm. And every time you see them, you know, MoJ./: 6L""'f'~ 1-rr.,,, c.. -/i.D ,i,' /I M f (Y'-l_ ae2i what they did wrong. The: shouldn tt have done it and~ wish they hadn't done it ()< j '{)y'VI..{?. ft 1 ! ~I see. So it makes me feel bad, you know, --r!,t.C. ., '(, just talk about what they did 1ky 'I (-/., I k a { ,':;, -f. d l X t!-1'2' Now what else <~r};tlT'),'\ want to talk about? ,--. I-(,.;. lil~cl'-.~, Well, this divorce stuff, ~tâ€¢,<1\.C-. â€¢., )you know, about including the fttY-CtvfS Well, the divorce is a terrible thing. To me they are. Um hmm. Because the Bible says, you know, they're, they are, like i:f they PAGE 27 27 LUM 195 A had a di110rce, then hy la-w: the. weren f:t, they wouldn't be married then. But in God t:s kingdom, they still are!man and wife. B: I see what you mean. F: And so, I think.thi.s should fle just that same way in life, but there is not. Because, you know, I want them together and l wish. that, in B: a way I wish. they had never been ixx tf._n_,7,,__~_,_1L,..,.t--'-â€¢~------,..-,~divorced. In other words you want them both, don't you? I F: Um hm. B: Right. F: And I want them both. together. B: Um hmm. And sometimes it is impossible for parents to he together, but naturally you love them both and you'd like to see them together, right? F: Yes, sir. B: Okay, did you say all you aanted to about that? F: That's about all. B: Okay. I'm not rushing you, but my ride is ready. Le.t 's see now, what else did we have to talk about? I want you to talk. I want you to F: B: F: express yourself, okay? Alright. I only got, 1'/ f kJ/ tf~ three more things. Well, you go right ahead now. We don't have very many /it;;-<. Well, I like to talk about I ~,t)t,(/!h r.:-:..J, the way you dress, you know. I like to get, talk to people about how:-do t~ _.,__.,.._,_ things and sew and stuff. B: Um hmm. You like to sew? F: Yes, sir. I made this. B: You did? F; Um hmm. PAGE 28 28 B; Verynice.. F: Thank you. I like to talk to people aliout what size and pattern and stuff, you know, you get. And what kind of fabric and what, how to use and liow to make tli.e .falir:tc. And I like to tell people that I love to sew, and I like to see them make things~ you know, because they look real pretty to me. B: Would you describe, would you describe your outfit? So that our listeners will know. F: Jc..s.r 1 Well, it' j\ a little -,.-,'')_,. .... :(..._:l_,_,_,..,.J-'-'--It's a plain piece dress B: F: and it's sleeveless and it's got, it's wide, it's ~d ta.:; I and small up here. fu,I. ,fs /<, a~ ) .-11,..tr-e-e, at the shoulders. Um hmm. Very nice. What kind of material is that? Cotton. of wide at tli.e it's kind of B: Cotton. Wy it looks very nice. Let me see. Did you, where did you :, get, di dyou use a paetern to make tliat or did you , , , F: I used a pattern. B: see. Let me see. What else could you say about it? F: It has, it zips up in the back. B: It zips up in the back, Um hmm. F: And B: It's nice ans soft sunnner material~ isn't it? F: Yes, sir. And its' cool. B: Um hmm. We didn't say anything about the color. F: It's pink. B: U'M hmm. PAGE 29 29 LUM 19-5 A F: It's kind of light red B: Well, it is just a lovely shade of pink. Very light pink, right? F: Yes, sir. R: Um !mun. Wl: /k 1 youâ€¢re very cre"1J:, I can see that. F: Thankyou. I like the ~t"'.}m51design and the way that you make the clothes. You know, I think it ts real pretty, like you, like if you were drawing a picture. And then you create clothes instead of creating a picture. But it would be almost just like drawing. When } LC"' ) like we started to talk about the way you fix the..,./{,, iVlt' 4 and how â€¢' to do it or what the main things are you're supposed to have. B: Let me ask you one question about this. Did you think about the color and how its color would match or enhance your complexion? You've got, you're very, y-ou 1 ve got very light complexion and it's, ah, did you think, do you think about those things when you're making them? F: ~$. J'S 'ir I think about J IA(, , , 11 B: How it would look on you, right. You maae it for you, didnlt you? F: Yes, sir. B: Right. That's right. That's the way it should be. I like that. Go F: ahead now. I didn't mean to interrupt. Well '-'/!\t , well I guess should talk about the way I make them and how they'll look, You know, I don't like really all these real fancy things that are coming out now. And, well I just like plain stuff, you know, just plain clothes. I like to talk ab.out the way you supposed to fix the tail or adjust the hemline or the shoulder parts. And I like to look through tlie book and choose patterns. I like to look and find the notions or what you need, like a dress, or C {o"{~ and zippers and xs:1rH:f:i:x buttons or buttonholes or { ) And, you know, that I s about all. You know, and I like to look a; stuff with other people.

PAGE 30

F; B: F: 30 LUM 195 A Um hmm. Well, let's see now. What else do you want to talk. about? Poetry-. l{ ~-~!Ab l Come on! Let'stalk. ahout poetry. Well, one reason wfLy I like to talk. aoout poetry Because it expresses my feelings and I don't have to do a lot of talking. You, know, just write it. B: And you can say it in a few words? What you feel in a few words? F; Yes sir. You know, I don't have to go 1:uf this like a speech. B: Um hmm. F: And I just write it down and let people read it instead of just going out and just telling about it. You know, I write about poems because I like, well, most things, the main thing is because I just like to do it. B: F: Um hmm. That's a good reason. And I like it because it's pretty, you know, and if ef}e,, (' !f i f , 'l / (.(' I ! .I' A I . fl < _,I always ~-to have iDi r; '.l,.t-,:.~ ~.-,, r~e-( r-\..fJ ..t ~ -Ca rf'{ /. I And so that's one reason why I like it because if youcan have verses l And you have to put the words together to make them pretty and pee1) You have to use something special. You know. And I just like to write them down , I like to put them in my cards and make cards. poems. And I like to hear other people read their :"I And I like to read my own. and just f'C ;)t'\ abotlt different things B: Will you read some of my poems and tell me the honelrt truth about the way you feel about them? F: Yes sir.

PAGE 31

31 B: would, you know, else didyou want to talk about? LUM 195 A might like. That Okay-. Now, what F: Drawing. B: Okay. F: Um, I like to draw pictures of the world, you know-, the fil:ow~si the trees, and the backgrounds of the world. I like. to draw: parts of people. I like to draw people. And I like to make designs, just just plain designs. Maybe mixed up colors and stuff. And 1 .},ike to J. . . 1 fl /clu rct t,,: tff~ rli'-14 "111trf'.r paint water colors and I li.kefo C,(eATC L . And I ~ike to make ~kefcl'i.S. And the create them with the hom:. I: like to draw because, you know, you learn more about yourself, because the more you learn to draw you learn about how you look. You learn anout your eyes and your face and you see how you really look,_~~----.jOu'll see how other people look and you(ll try to draw them and like they are in person. And, well, I guess I just got one,m?~~ re~so'n,~!1,-y xxxxxxx I like to draw--I guess I draw becaase I love it. -----B: F: B: F: Could, would you draw me sometime? I'll try. 6-re-,~ 4I And would you draw me honestlylike you see me? Wt.fl, .. r'1 Ir . try.

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B: F: As well as you can, Yes sir. 32 LU'.M 195 A B: I appreciate that and write me a poem and write me a feW"tMnee rff p-r ~l)Cl'l';;'r,d I'll let you see some of mine. If I can help you I will, okay? F: Okay. B: Will we be poetry buddies? F:q Yes sir. B; Okay. Now I want to ask you one more thing. Do you have one last word you'd like to say to other young people.your age? F: Well, B: And I have one more correction, but go ahead and say it. F: I hope this world turns out to be better than it already is, and I hope folJ ,'"r comes down~ and I hope the world i; -------that the cost of living p~uful B: Did you ever take an I,Q, test? F: For what, for my eyes? t::1~"'1f".s::J B: An I.Q. test.11-:1/-v.-f ,nr/-_, c: ::/:laugh. You know how high your I.Q. is? F: I don't know what that is, B: Well, itts a sort of test that you take at school to measure your intelligence quotient. F: Oh, B: I,Q. meass intelligence quotient. F: Llke a test? B: Um hnnn, F: Yes, sir.

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---------33 LUX 195 A Well, I think. mine turned out to be. okay-, you know. B: But you don ':t know nowokay-, do you? Uh uh. B: -C~ 'tA r "';f ",_Ja ..s ------'-....-~~~-....--------... -"'-!~--extra okay-, F; It was hard, liard. B: It was kind of, your rating was pretty good? F: I think so. B: That "s n1.ce. I want to tliank you so verymucli.._ for thi.:.s. You ~ve been such a wonderful interviewee, I think., rtve enjoyed tli.is and it ':s helped us a lot and, nowis there anytliigg else you want to talk about? F: B: F: B: F: Well, nothing, just about, about all; for righ.t now-. Um hmm. Well, thank you so very mucli.._ t1 ~, .... , ..,.., ,..._ _________ ~..--.You' re welcome. Bye. Bye.