Title: Interview with Mrs. Richard Haskins (October 28, 1973)
Full Citation
Permanent Link: http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00007166/00001
 Material Information
Title: Interview with Mrs. Richard Haskins (October 28, 1973)
Physical Description: Book
Language: English
Publication Date: October 28, 1973
Spatial Coverage: Lumbee County (Fla.)
Funding: This text has been transcribed from an audio or video oral history. Digitization was funded by a gift from Caleb J. and Michele B. Grimes.
 Record Information
Bibliographic ID: UF00007166
Volume ID: VID00001
Source Institution: Samuel Proctor Oral History Program, Department of History, University of Florida
Holding Location: This interview is part of the 'Lumbee County' collection of interviews held by the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program of the Department of History at the University of Florida
Rights Management: All rights reserved by the source institution and holding location.
Resource Identifier: LUM 188

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Full Text

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and Samuel Proctor Oral History Program on
behalf of the Board of Trustees of the University of

Copyright, 2005, University of Florida.
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Date of interview: October 28, 1973
B: This is October 28, 1973. I am Lew Barton interviewing for the
University of Florida's and the Doris Duke Foundation, American
Indian Oral History program Lumbee Segment. This afternoon
I am privileged to be in the home of Mr. and Mrs. Richard Haskins
H- A -S-K-I-N-S, in the ^ ten mile Magnolia area of Robinson County.
and with me favoring me with an interview right now is Mrs. Haskins.
Mrs. Haskins, you are very kind to give us an interview.
have to
H: Yeah, it's a great privilege to be able to you interview.
B: And you are very kind. What was your name before you were married?
H: Lola Williams.
B: L- O L- A? or O-L-A
H: L-O L-A
B: W-Y-N-E
H: That's right.
B: Are you a relative of Keith Williams?
H: I'M his second oldest daughter.
B: Is that right!? Well, he- I know him well. Lola, I've known him for a
long time.

B: I use to know him. What's your husband's name?
H: Richard Haskins.
B: Do you have any children?
H: We hawe five.
B: Huh, huh.
Would you mind giving me their names and ages?
H: Well, the oldest is Sandra Haskins. He's nineteen. Second, is Bertrum
He's eighteen. The third is Martha. She's sisteen. The fourth one is
Richard Keith. He's thirteen, and the youngest one is Miller. He's
B: Well,
B: That's great. You know there's something about Haskins and that same
question to a man and to a woman. The man usually has to stop
and think about the ages and they're always changing you know.
One year a child is this age and next year it's another age, but uh,
the mother don't have this trouble.
H: Q dnTtJt bea
B: Just a little bit off. Not too much off, though. when you consider
the circumstances.

LUM /19
H: i ^ PAIS jS A (vs. ^ C-tC^ ktEe
we have to refs-t O vr- these days.
B: Well, I guess men and a woman's^ arejust a little bit different.
H: Yes, that's so true Have you lived in this area very long?
H: We've been here since 19635.
Th Nbt k sf-^^u'^
New York to California
B: You lived in California tP,,, ,
H: New York.
B: New York. You are very fortunate. I think America is a great, big
and just see it ed
wonderful place and I'd like to just wonder over it^and travel across it
coast to coast, but I didn't have time to do much visiting 4g. I
think people who travel are very lucky people. I like to travel and
meet people. What does your husband do?
H: Well, uh, & s K C
B: They have a popular song out now called "White Line Fever."
H&B: ha! ha! ha!
B: I like it though.
H: He likes 4 O -_--"" o 4 ct < v4c1,

,I)M '/S
B: 7fdck c. 4'4 are very unusual people and they're real the
salt of the earth sort of people. You know, that the Bible speaks about.
That's wonderful people. They read and get along well. They have
a lot of good will. I've never seen a better truck driver in my
life. I've never seen driver that was better. He always had a pretty
bright outlook on life. You know.
H: Well, I've heard a lot of good reports like one person said, like we
<S4 tt ewvens ^1V)C41 -ff I$ ^ -Jr
was Southern. One person ou could depend on would be the truck drivers
'(^^rf-yyi r hve C > rt cit i
B: They certainly will
H: That's right.
B: Where did you go to school, Mrs. Haskins?
H: Magnolia High.
B: High. huh, huh. Do you know what year you got married?
H: In 1963. That's long time.
B: That's not so long. Is your husband from Robeson County?
H: No, he's^from the City of New York.
B: ITh, huh. Da" New York's a good state,I don't like the city much

LUM lgg
B: because too much and eventime I went in there, I got
or something 4
lost,, I think. I think anybody does who doesn't come from the New York City
(:1 h h Cjrr, C 7 y an
around here.
H: Yeah.
B: Native New Yorkers have to carry a around, but I'm not prejudiced
against the New Yorkers. By the way, we've had some children visit
from Brooklyn, New York. Oh, about two months ago. They were working
over there
with the visitor workers, and they came over here and they visited among
our people. Do you think that yrhave a hospitable people? Do you think
they're kinder?
H: Yes. X +2 ; -t
u > g 6,rzas gy ro *Se ^,, # ; % irk ?
Us p srD fe i rA
B: Do you see any very marked differences between the North and the South?
use to
H: I certainly do. I^livei in New York for six years and might not even get
to know your next door neighbor
B: Huh, huh. Here in this part of the country we are more relaxed, easy going
and sometimes even a little lackadaisical, I 'm afraid.
MA 1 W*6AJL A ^ Of course, I guess you can go too far.i
to the extreme in either direction.

LUM / g
H: That's true, too.
B: Do you attend church?
H: Yes. I have my religious beliefs. Would you like me to name them?
B: Yes, I would.
H: Well, I attend jt r ea 4 ls fc.1 j Aniss
B: w/i>/ They are the best people for work, and to be faithful
to their group and to what they believe in of anybody I know, They
really work at it. And I admire this and I'm very interested in it.
H: What we do- We follow the science of the outline of the Bible.
That's why
B: Hum, hum. Well, I want you to know that I really concur with you there.
You are faithful, and I think that all Christians do need to work.
Ay ,,4 ,* to work.
A Well ?L.. I believe, real faith moves people, If you've
got real faith, then, you are going to act on it.
H: oti 4 m ar e h
B: Uh, how many children were there in your family?
H: Well, I came from a family of eleven children. Eleven of us. Seven
boys four girls.
B: Uh,huh. My family there ^seven in our immediate family of only boys.

LUM 1^
B: I was the only boy. so I got a good spoiling.
H: Yeah.
B: But I like large families.
H: K t r et M A krT+ ^c^1;
don't have a large family
B: Well, you've lived outside of the Indian community here and have visited
other parts of te country. Traveled all over? Do you see our community
as different from anybody else's? Are there X,. differences do you think?
H: Yes, I think there are.
B: Um, hum.
H: Well, you said ahile ago, hospitality would be one, and you remember
that these days there's not as much I wouldn't know how to say A
^hawsI s6a 40 "A o9f4I ,*4
still I might say that you have a little more than some of these other
B: Do you think that the Indian community is as friendly as the others or maybe
a little bit friendlier? Or not as friendly? Do you think our people)
rather the Indian people are friendly

H: Well, I think so, and I've even heard outsiders saying
some Indian -I don't remember the name that I,,, You find a lot of that.
/VoW) vie ot Ott ff X communities afi close together.
B: Do you think that's because maybe V$ttiM to?
H: Well, if they wouldn't, we wouldn't by ourselves. ha!
that could be the reason, you know.
B: I've heard i .4rPii say, you know, when some of our people move off to
another area that even when they go to such places as Baltimore that they
to be clanish, you know,
have a tendency J live together, sit together. Do you think this
is just plain or why do you think this is?
H: Well, like you just mentioned, no doubt because of
because one of those things that TA A lr C j
~- $'oY And, then,
^to do this, see?ANaturally, when they go away they feel close to one
another. They d have a tendency to speak to one another.

LUM /f
B: Well, did you have any problems at all?
4A c lffef
H: None, because my house was always a house.
Fri M 4 v wJ PrPe f people Ireally come to love.
7^ ^A 4- Pn^$ 7 I easy to get along with.
B: And that's certainly a great asset.
H: It sure is.
B: Do you ever listen to Cher and Sonny on television?
H: Uh, huh. I sure do.
B: Do you like her ?
H: She's nice, isn't she?
B: f re yL, ^W IA f" !
Do you plan to live here the rest of your life?
H: Well, yes, (e LL E *t It set roots and own our home here
now and the children's growing up and w 1 i
settling around this area.
B: I've heard it said that once you live Robeson County or you're born
you may you'll
in Robinson County that go away, but eventually I ^return. Do you

B: think this is generally true?
H: Well, we can see that it's certainly what's happening to people
eventually. They usually do return. Now, after we went to New York,
4001 ;~W I-I really it
ian *" lltn in Bethel five or six years come to love it and^. felt
like home to me, but believe it or not, it was my husband who wanted to
B: Uh, huh.
H: come back.
B: That is great.
H: Uk oQ k 14
B: He sounded like a great guy.
H: he was more Southern than I was. we only lived here for a few years.
but if we didn't come and start working and living together
and we come in '66 so we juststiBw t our home and just rt1 -CV
B: There's an ol superstition or tradition or something- whatever you want to
call it that if you go to Hawaii, you know, and leave here then
Aloha- "farewell to thee". I f you ever hear of that, then, you'll
return, and some day you'll to Hawaii. The first time I went there, I was
in the Navy, and I did hear that once.

B: but I guess I didn't Ji- that tradition. It was
a very lovely tradition. A very pleasant place and although we have
problems in aeiBbn County, we prefer to live here many of us do.
H: Well, that's true. We have A 1^tL here.
B: Do you see any other problems that need to be _r t, do you think?
H: Well, I see a lot of problems, but I don't think I k o 7 i sf ^
B: Well, I think you are being a little bit over modest there.
H: ha! ha!
B: ks I A) Maybe, you're like
I was: I was talking to my sister who lived in Charlotte. I wastelling
her about an experience that I had coming in on the bus. I got the
bus here in Lumberton and we went to Pembroke and somebody on the bus
so I called up the bus people in Pembroke and they didn't know anything ,
) $ ~people don't know anything. I had to speak up because
I live in Pembroke. I said, "We may know just about as much as the rest of
the darn people."
H: ha! ha!

B: Everybody on the bus laughed, but I guess we're all a little bit modest
in our own place. My sister who lives in Charlotte. She
said, "I've never had any problem. If it had been me, I wouldn't
bothered responded
have been ^ at all. I said, "Well, lady, you and I have different
H: Now, I feel the same way you do there.
by the way,
Naturally, I'm going to defend it because I fell like you.
You're just as intelligent, and as capable of
knowing in other ways. And I think
B: Well, I don't see any difference in intelligence among races, or,you know,
ability. I've always been proud to have friends amo ng those three races.
I wish that I had more Black friends than I have because this really
in many ways,
broadens you, you know, intellectually^and then, I lectured for two weeks
,, gW4 ;88 which
atdt # (4 M, -ollege this year. .. was '-dominently Black
and I never had such a great time. Meeting really gifted people
and discussing so many things: humangand heart to heart.
I stly they were Black people, but they werel. It was a broadening

LUM /9
in our lives
B: experience ^ and I wouldn't take anything for it.
H: Well, A Aft ri rn (^) ^ m I took JL
S0ew4. "4 f1 sk I
B: Right.
H:. Ltk w v^* ) wt tk( ^ ft4 6 ^A
W/ "even _B CC X f, to-- Al
we've^got some two wonderful i r you know, and they eat in our
homes and we have three different races. I usually tell people that
if you
haven't visited before that well,^come to my house and you might find
Black a. White man,
a man there, or an Indian.
B: Or all three?
H: Or all three at one time, but if you do, you'll find them interesting.
B: Wrong.
really fiCI 4L
H: So you see, it's'wonderful to "N *w1
jist like we are.
B: Certainly.
BI The only reason that I haven't made more contact with them is that I just
haven't had the opportunity, I think.
H: Uh, huh.
B: As much opportunity as I've always sitting here in Rebtam County, we were

LUM /f
B: pretty much isolated, don't you think?
H: Yes, we have been.
B: We're just getting out of that somehow.
H: Well, my job now has helped me a lot, to come in contact with O0 r(6 k
B: Would you tell us something about your M4/ ?
H: Well, I was a 4g ^ sales lady. I go ; rasC ,4C-
and I f t t4.*9 tr ^o .4
B: You might as well go ahead and tell the name of your company and everything.
Give them a free plug.
H: Well, I work for Sunway Sales in 4LePiekd. That's our distributors
And I have a union of fourteen girls who works for me, and in between I have
all three races. I have White dealers, Colored dealers, and
Indian dealers, and it's very enjoyable work and I enjoy it.
B: So you think business has a tendency to broaden people in this respect because
you do have to...If you're selling any product, your prospective customers 4fr.
among all three races?
H: That's right, Well, you'll come in contact with all three races. You go in
one home this week and in that home you might get a W /4I X f s

LUM /f
H: < white lady or a Black lady if you came to their home.
So you couldn't feel prejudiced and work in a business like I'm in.
B: Well, I think it's good for us that you have to have contact with each other.
and until we get to be brothers in the true spirit, we'll go right on having
war. If we had more brotherhood, I don't think that we'd have war, do you?
H:Well, I'm sure we wouldn't. You know, everybody really doing
H: Well, I'm sure we wouldn't. You know, everybody "awrreally doing
AtJ44 R;bIe music
B: You know the young people take the lead in^everything these days, and there
seem to be more young people than ever before and they have to and there's
a song very popular- the Indians call it 'I"_ la A .oi-- s love
~ ~istif love.I Isn't this virtually about what we all love bve.
.Isn't this virtually about what Jesus taught you?
H: Yes, he constantly appointed people to God's kingdom.
God is love. That was really the theme of his thesis, preaching love and
That's the way the world too.
B: I seem to remember a scripture, a quotation by Jesus: and he said that
did he say that you are a good Bible student? and I'm referring to this
quotation by Jesus and he said that could you say you're a good Bible
student and I am referring to this quotation where Jesus says This is a
great commandment to love God and to love thy neighbor.
15great commandment to love God and to love thy neighbor.

LUM ;gg
B: Do you remember the i *_e I am referring to?
H: Yes, you're referring to Mathew when he was asking him about the en
Commandments and he told them he quoted two of the greatest commandments:
Love thy God with all their heart and then he told them
and Love Thy Neighbor as Thy Self and on these two commandments hang all law
<o by just keeping these two commandments, you'd fulfill the rest of tem.
you wouldn't hurt You sum wouldn't be covenant to nobody neither.
or whatever they own
property^or anybody else's wife. You wouldn't do murder. You wouldn't do
stealing. You use to know somebody who liked to
B: You wouldn't have to worry about the rest. That's great. I wish everybody
understood this. We wouldn't have any problem, would we? If we had enough
love, we wouldn't have ^problems. That's zight.
H: If everybody was living by those two commandments, we could
sleep at our doors, couldn't we4 ha! ha!
B: Yeah. There are places in the world that #)i would shutter
to think about sleeping with your doors open. There's a preacher who wrote
a book called "The Cross and the Switchblade". This was I believe it was
the Lord was
a Pentecostal minister, but his experiences. HIe felt that^his minister
was leading him out of a small Southern town into the great complexes in

LUM /sf
B: the North and particularly into the slum areas, and he was trying to
God's will
determine what was ^for him and follow that as he understood it.
And the whole book is a book of strange happenings, and I don't
suppose you'd be surprised bout this: but in every caseGod always came
through. And I don't think that that~surprise- us but it's good to
know, and it means that this thing is practical. This thing of religion
is very practical, I'm not saying.
What are you thinking about?
H: Well, what was you trying to say that we could even depend on God or
God is powerful or
that may become true.
B: I think God. Well, I know he always teaches, promises
I've got
fall short. an interesting theory of my own: particularly that
of any group, but perhaps it's that of all groups, Snd that is whatever
the Bible says is true and if the faith principle where it comes up short
with us, it's on our part. where we didn't understand what was being
ho whose,{ .4 i et
said or A *M* was being said and if we did, we didn't
and some things look very easy and they are actually very difficult, aid

B: I'm afraid that we are not as close to God. I know that we are not
in Ive
as close as we should be, but he saidjmy own experience and I had quite
a few experiences up and down like everybody. Maybe I had it a little
rougher ones at places, but I've always found that when I was really up
against the wall or really down nobody else in the world
4^ depend on really) ; t A / ef1 ,6rC^ 4^^ + Suddenly, you
see yourself alone and you know your friends can't help you
and there's nobody left but God, and so we reach out and we hold of
him and we try to reach him and he always comes through, but don't you
think that he would have come through before? in the first place?
H: Well,
B: If we could exercise that simple faith in
a friend to lean on.
H: Well, like you said in the first place if you could have excercised faith
in the being here waste same thing and sometimes it takes a different
hardships and different +rt ^( Ad n 1 q4
i d a lot of times, Mr. Barton he exercised some things or do things for us
that might not be against his will. 'I i ..t ._. w mil

LUM /8
H: and alot of times it wasn't God's will. and later on, we were probably
B: He knew we were, see.
H: So he wi l and heln us if it is his will.
Nzp's holJ 2:d ;S ^/ <^ ..
rid-t i Z i
B: Right.
B: Sometimes I think about it and I guess maybe I'm over i^eSiffG it, and
I think about a child like this: like if this child would come to you
he wanted a razor blade, say, and you wouldn't let him have the razor blade
although you loved the child. It certainly doesn't say that
you don't love him when refuse him. On the contrary, it's
H: That'szight.
B: So it wouldn't be good for the child and God in his great love and wisdom
overrules our desires sometimes or maybe he answers in a
way that we didn't expect him to answer. I know his brother
brought to my attention one time. He says God hears and answers every
prayer^that someone asks in his name.

LUM /g
B: That's good.
H: And I thought, well, how 'I~ 4* 1 .
7S<^ t Cl GfV aour children. You'd have to take a razor blade away from
them. You can think of bFto 1 y ^ W ^ A7
A p, _
-B:Anou t oucouGod dom lo
B: AntTyou think our faith can be coupled with trust in God's wisdom and love.
H: Right.
B: But he'll give us what's best for us, and this is probably why we 5Lf
H: I see.
a experience
B: And he's governed by love in all that he does. It's great.
that we are of the earth and earthly and, of course, now there's distance
between man and God as I see it and I'm getting a 'ttm4o*ii w u d. 4Pwmie are
very fascinating things. I believe it's very practical to think of the
Bible and I believe that if we could practise it and live it more perfectly,

LUM /a'
B: they'd be so much better off.
what/0 _B
H: Well, I'll tell yo* Jf people live by the Bible and taeh the
commandments and see the new covenant
and keep those commandments, but if we could t .3
would be perfect. If we would be able to keep them, that makes us
You see we are not able to
keep them.
but we could keep perfect in a relative sense. Perfect as the children
even though we aren't a bunch of children.
B: I seem to remember that incidentin the Bible in which God commanded
Abraham to walk proud before he would be perfect and he ,fell on
his face ^O$4 you think that this was the fault i t he realized it.
H: Abrqham?
B: Um,hum. Well, JC is called a true friend of God, and he was
just like ai. He was -- f tL ^
The same ones as we did Adam and Eve, but he did have a lot of faith.
And he was called a friend of God, and that meanswas in a special
relationship with God, but like you said he *.-
B:'And probably had a .. I know he had a high score of performance. I don't

B: know just how high. Well, he offered up
Well, he offered up
his son QLre as a 4eifi
B: I seem to remember something about Moses when he was carrying the
commandments. Am I .imagining this or am I or is there an instance where
I mean
he fell and broke the law? He broke the tablets that the laws written oh
or something happened to them.
H: Well, you know when you came down from the Mount, and we took tablets
and he returned, -w found that the Israelites
/-A 4 ft a Golden Staff
and he left the Ten Commandments.
B: UL4,'
H: cause r,
clear I couldn't
B: I'm glad you could me up on that makes it clear in my
mind and I was afraid to my it because I don't want to be wrongs particularly
in that direction. Do you think this signifies something? Does it symbolize
something for all of us? An island of perfection perhaps?
H: Well, it signifies, Mr. Barbn,
t r~_~C-3-2 ... ,22

LUM 188
H: 6 C r
Hwistheworkofa fis donyukg th ia
B: How is the work of Johova Witness first doing, you know, among the Indians
H: Well, today, the Lumberton Congregation had 259. We had a lot off because
of sickness and other reason.
B: Huh, huh.
H: Every week we had nWfce and as a matter of fact they had a man to
afre 5Oi .Oki5vS+
tell me a few days ago. It was in the news. We- aue. g-lo.i. yw-:l r f
on the face of the earth. We really C C f /15 h ^ ftf 7)"f
We certainly feel up to date and peoplelcoming.
You have to know the truth. You have to know why you're feeling conditions
up to date. See?

LUM 188
This is something for which I admire your group.so very much. They
study diligently and they don't just listen to hat the preacher says or
what a brother or sister says. They study the Bible themselves. Every-
body studies.'
H: That's right. We all are ministers. It pays to be a minister
4 W Vhy 1 i X You really have to know God's word.
Like you say, you^take the preacher's word or the Brother's word. We go
to the Bible ourselves and do research.
TodayrrT we hluI havehr aten years ago only a little hand full.
Today we have a congregation h / K / AN ? Y' ;fj 4 4
because like I said, it's over two hundred
and around three.
B: And your services are always interracial, aren't they?
H: That's right. S 4pfV you find all races .
Lt h/said that Jcu would know)
And this is the only way his people
he said they have love one for another.
B: Oh, that's great label, isn't it?
H: Yes, it certainly is.

LUM 188
B: People will realize that you, but,you know,,is
aja9 7 that the Christian, the Believer, or the Witness, particularly
you prefer to find. It's most satisfying. It's a loving person,
manisfesting a love for his brothers and sisters. Those who are in and
those who are out? Outside the group.
H: Well, I tell you like I told the lady a few days ago$ / A f-4t0 ^
I couldn't compromise. Like I said to her,: "Now you two certainly
have the right religion, and I feel like I'd be a hypocrite. Personally,
myself, from what God's word said, I believe today that you have to be
and there's someone outside that has this t of love.
but A-.6- on the inside and the one that's supposed to believe
ho-4 A fr' work il occa sion r
you know,
I couldn't compromise and tell somebody, well,^you're all
right to stay there because I don't feel that way. and I don't think that
I maybe, I wouldn't want ^ to be hypocritical.
B: Well,
H: Jesus, he came to the Pand said Believe!"
B: Yes, he certainly did
H: That's right.

LUM 188
H: _Ho dC l 7 u 4eI rC
B: In the past and other places, you know, sometimes people have failed to
understand your religious signs. I know there are other groups that have
been misunderstood, too, but what I wanted to ask you is "Do you come up
JfR very much prejudice against your group in this A CO. T ?
you -, (qs
H: Not as much now as ^use to. I rec* 14 few years 4^*/ Ci
because like I said awhile ago, they are epr', you know.
B: They want to -nairim
H: They want to mate. They want something in the making.
because today you have people three years ago
that you never found them inside of them. They've,,#,t
B: Maybe as we grow in those things, we ought to be mature, you know, in
to a degree
those things^certain. ^before you feel the need of going in a certain
direction. Would you put it that way?
H: Yes, and I think we^have to be assuming that we're wrong, in what we

LUM 188
H: firmly believed in. before you could turn up the right thing, and
that's alr i ght with me because I won't
B: What was your religion?
H: I was Holiness. I belong to the Church of God. And then Holiness)
is very set in ways, you know.
So what you have to do is preach God's word to
is to prove to them prove all things the Bible says.
Hold fast to what is his.
so that's^what you have to do. You have to prove to the people what
you can, and usually what we do is
tell people these things
B: That's right. Well, I'm not anti-any group.
H: Well, tha i that's going to be hard + AA t
B: Well, it would. I've been associated with newspapers and I Well, I'm
you knw,
compelled to take the overview, and try to regard everybody as
equal) s:zao^il I h -- "-" -p -- -0,^ Aft O^ ^
B: Because if we would limit your freedom, that would mean.. and I belong
to another group and then, that would automatically limit my own.so

LUM 188
B: involving other persons. His freedom, too, that's practical, but
even kind of selfish because if I deny you freedom, I'm denying myself
that freedom. I wouldn't be able to operate. We have to operate under
the same laws.
H: L-e e tnand 4 a -t q
B: Right. I think it's very Eit- g when people fail to see this.
Mrs. Haskins, These are people who come after you
brother who's s ( A
to go see about your. more or less involved IA I *"' (
I want to thank you though for this interview. You've been very kind to
talk to us. Thank you very much.

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