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| Citation |
- Permanent Link:
- https://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00007146/00001
Material Information
- Title:
- Interview with Stella Locklear, December 13, 1973
- Creator:
- Locklear, Stella ( Interviewee )
- Publication Date:
- December 13, 1973
- Language:
- English
Subjects
- Subjects / Keywords:
- Florida History ( local )
Lumbee Oral History Collection ( local )
- Spatial Coverage:
- Lumbee County (Fla.)
Notes
- Funding:
- This text has been transcribed from an audio or video oral history. Digitization was funded by a gift from Caleb J. and Michele B. Grimes.
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LUM 160A
Page 1. dib
INTERVIEWER: Lew Barton
INTERVIEWEE: Mrs. Stella Locklear
December 13, 1973
B: This is December 13, 1973. I'm Lew Barton recording for the
University of Florida's History Department. This afternoon I am
in my home in Pembroke, North Carolina, at 114-C Dial, D-i-a-l,
Terrace, T-e-r-r-a-c-e, and with me is Mrs. Stella Locklear, who
has kindly consented to give me an interview. Right now while we're
doing this interview Mrs. Locklear is washing the dishes for me.
Isn't she sweet. Mrs. Locklear, which, which apartment is it that
you live in here in Dial Terrace?
L: 200-C.
B: She's over at the sink and she says she lives at 200-C right
here in this block. We'll talk about that just in a minute when
you get through and if you'll be kind enough to draw up a chair,
and we'll just sit here and talk. And I'll just wait on you till you
get through. O.K.? You say you live at 200-C ?
L: Yes.
B: Would you mind pulling your chair up just a little bit closer?
That's good. Who was*#ere your people? I know them, but I have to
ask you so it goes down on tape.
L: Virginia Locklear) (he wt5 w f ir s my mother.
B: And where were you born at?
L: Right here in Robeson County, Pembroke.
B: Do you have any brothers or sisters?
L: Yes, I have five brothers and three sisters.
B: Do you have any children?
LUM 160A
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L: I have one, Johnny Calahan.
B: How old is he?
L: Well, he was born in 1925 the first of May.
B: What does he do?
L: He's an electrician.
B: I want all the folks listening to this tape to know what a fabu-
lous cook you are. Mrs. Locklear, you cook like I think our Indian
women, I have to brag on them a little bit, you know, and I think
they cook the best food that's ever eaten. And your cooking is ty-
pically like, like the Indian women cook. And do you, do you remember
my grandmother?
L: Sure.
B: Grandpap Marcus is alive.
L: He is a bit fat.
B: Right. I remember when I was a little boy, you know, I would eat
her cooking and I wasn't old enough to know why she cooked better food
than anybody else. But I tried to figure it out and I'd look at her,
and she had a few years on her and her hands were wrinkled, and I
thought in my childish mind that this was because Grandma's hands
were wrinkled. This is why she cooked so well. But she could, she
could cook better than Momma could. She could cook better C4,I u 1 Jf
ef anybody, and the Indian women eke great pride in this, didn't
they?
L: Yes, they did.
B: And do you take pride in your cooking?
L: I sure do.
LUM 160A
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B: Do you enjoy your own cooking?
L: Sure.
B: It's got to be good then. You know, I've heard people say
when they cook that it doesn't taste as well as when somebody
else cooks. But if it's cooked right it does, doesn't it?
L: Yes + do .
B: Why don't you tell them what we had for supper tonight.
L: Well, we had reS1&'M baked bread O It was
really good.
B: Oh gosh, that was good. You were brought up in a pretty strict
family in a christian home.
L: Yes.
B: Were your parents very strict on you?
L: Oh yes.
B: Would they spank you if you did wrong?
L: Yes.
B: My grandmother spanked me once to crying. My mother wasn't as,
my mother, Katherine Ann, she wasn't as strict as grandma. And one
day I was crying for something. I was crying for some cake or bread
or something or other, and she told me to just be patient and wait.
And I didn't. I just can remember it. But my grandmother took my
pants down. She said she didn't believe in whipping pants. She wanted
to whip the boy. She really did, too. Did your parents punish like
this?
L: Yes, they did.
LUM 160A
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B: How about if you went to school? Some of the children went to
school and they got in trouble in school,and got spanked in school
or got whipped.Then they came home and told their parents about
it, what would the parents do?
L: They would whip him, too.
B: They get two.
L: And if we didn't learn we got a whipping to learn.
B: If you didn't get your lesson you got whipped?
L: That's it. We would learn our lesson.
B: And sometimes they would use little switches, wouldn't they?
L: Uh huh.
B: And it really hurts. Where they switched you around the legs
with those things it wrapped all around.
L: Yes.
B: They weren't very large. But they were just keen little switches
that really burned you.
L: Yes.
B: How about like dating habits? Did they always call bedtime when
you were dating?
L: Oh Yes.
B: About what time would they call bedtime?
L: About nine o'clock.
B: At nine o'clock. And if, if they said bedtime and the fellow didn't
take off right away, what would happen?
L: I'd get in trouble.
B: Do you think things are changing since then?
LUM 160A
Page 5. dib
L: Yes. Yes, they are.
B: But we're not quite as strict as we used to be, are we?
L: No.
B: But did you ever do, tell me the truth, did you ever do any
dating around at the back of the barn, you know, where you had to
fire the barn up at night and keep the barn going? This time they
wouldn't call bedtime, because somebody had to sit up with that barn
and keep thelogs burning all night.
L: Yes, well, I didn't until I was a little older. .jO
B: I was always glad o to do a little dating around t6e tobacco
barns, because that' Sone time they didn't call bedtime. And I guess
that's still true, although they use more modern tobacco barns.
L: Yes.
B: You don't have to sit up with them.
L: No.
B: But in the old-fashioned tobacco barn you had to check the tem-
perature and the heat ever so often, maybe every twenty or thirty
minutes.
L: Yes, and they'd just 5I pt P'.
B: Somebody would sit until that...
L: Sitting up.
B: ...that barn was c .",
L: Yes, or lie down and get up and down and watch the barn.
the fire going.
B: Of course I shouldn't be telling about those days so long ago.
LUM 160A
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They weren't so very long ago, were they?
L: No. No they weren't.
B: Things have changed very quickly, haven't they?
L: Yes, they has.
B: How about cotton picking? You never did like that, did you?
L: Oh yes.
B: You did?
L: I love to pick cotton.
B: Tell me how much cotton could you pick in a day?
L: I, I couldn't pick but about two hundred. But I really loved
it. I just loved to pick it.
B: Lord, I never picked two hundred in my life. And I had the repu-
ltion of being one of the lazy guys in the community, I guess because
I just couldn't pick cotton. I would try to make that two hundred.
But I never did make it.
L: I could make it. I, I just, if I picked by myself I'd pick up
two hundred every day. I just really loved to pick it.
B: Some people could pick even more. I, I remember hearing about
Alice Bullard and some of the Bullard children picking as much as
five hundred pounds a day.
L: Yes, she did.
B: Boy, that's something. I don't know how in the world they did
it, do you?
L: No, but she did. I remember her Uncli did, too, and /^^'
her brother,; too.
LUM 160A
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B: So you go in the fields, so they went in the fields as soon as it
was light enough to see and pick until it was too dark to pickj, I
L: No, they said they'd pick it and leave the f fVIA
B: Is that right?
L: Uh huh.
B: Well, they surely were people and still are people who have the reputa-
tion of being the hardest working people around.
L: That's right.
B: The Bullard family.
L: The Bullard family.
B: Mrs. Locklear, where do you go to church?
L: I got to the l eSn Pembroke.
B: How about different fashions. We were, you were talking something
a little earlier about the way wome fashions have changed. Do you
know I wrote a poem women's fashions that I have a lot of fun with, teasing
young people about their, their dresses. I don't really criticize them.
But I just have a little fun with them. But I know you are a serious
Christian lady, and I want to ask you what do you think about mini-skirts
and things like this?
L: Well, I just don't like them.
B: Say you don't?
L: No, I, I'm against them. I just feel like their parents will pay
for them for the way they let their children dress.
B: Do you think, do you think that maybe these short dresses provoke
the guys, or...
L: Well, I don't know.
LUM 160A
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B: ...cause them.. 94 0'
L: I guess 'L,- I feel like it's sin _- come into the world.
B: Is that right? Now of course they've been with us a long time.
Do you think that maybe people are getting used to them?
L: I guess they are.
B: Can you remember how, how long were the skirts when you were a girl?
L: Oh, they was dragging the ground,some of them the older folks wore.
B: How old are you? I shouldn't ask a lady her age, but I'm going to
ask you yours fA
L: I'm sixty-four.
B: You're sixty-four. That's certainly wonderful to live to, to live
to be sixty-four.
L: Yes. And I belong to the Lord. I want to be what he led me to be,
and I want my dress to please him. I think we should dress as soldiers.
We are soldiers to the Lord. There's like soldiers i4bdI fQi CiAr 7c
,r V You know, all of them, the soldiers A It
don't say that, but they do dress everyone aJike. They don't be no
different from, and God's people is soldiers to the Lord, and we should
wear our clothes, we should all be dressed alike, and should be dressed
like we belong to the Lord. And I've got to wear mine like that, because
I've got to be what the Lord Mfi9d-have me to do at all times and all places.
And anywhere I go I don't change. I don't go to the beauty parlor. I
wear my hair j 0 I wear it the same way all the time. I'm
a going where I go. I go to the Lord.
B: I've noticed that the bonnet you wear, this is too typical, this too
LUM 160A
Page 9. dib
is typically Indian. Like Indian women used to make bonnets, and they
wore those bonnets, and I think yours are beautiful.
L: That's right.
B: And do you like to wear those?
L: Yes. I, I just wears it over here, but I really like to wear them.
B: You like to wear it when you're working, don't you?
L: Uh huh.
B: Could you tell us a little something about, describe the bonnet
and how you made it and everything, because our listeners and readers
probably never saw one. They're very picturesque, and you know...
L: Well, I don't whether I could tell just how is was made or not. It
has /crown on the top and the ruffle on it and a little A J l 4r
And the bow tie is tied in the back.
B: I bet you they wear and wear and wear, that-it's hard to wear one
of them out I bet.
L: That's right. They really wear good.
B: Well, can you wash them? Can you throw them in the washing machine
and wash them?
L: Oh, yes. Throw them right in the wash. Nfthd/'/fA made out of permanent
press, Why you can ironlor you can not. It look$ better with the iron.
B: Uh huh. Do you think people have changed, though, in their attitudes
toward dressing and so on?
L: Oh, yes. They've changed a lot.
B: You walk out on the street now you can see a lot of legs,can't you?
L: Yes, there's much differences ____ .
LUM 160A
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B: I imagine guys might like thatfvlM .
L: I don't know. Some of them don't. They'd rather not even sin.
B: I guess you're right. How about schoolbnow. Do you think school's
are changing?
L: Yes, they do. I think they do.
B: Do you think that the teachers are more lenient with students now
than they used to be?
L: I guess they are.
B: Where did you go to school at when you were a girl? Well, you're
still a girl.
L: Well, I was, we were living below Lumberton, and I went tojschool
S__ that way. I don't remember the name of the school. It's
been so long.
B: Have you lived here in Robeson County all your life?
L: Well, most of the time, yes. C
B: Of course you don't look much like an Indian I'm afraidjA You look
pure caucasian. But you are an Indian, aren't you?
L: That's right.
B: Are you proud of it?
L: Sure. I'm really proud of it.
B: We have, many of our people are very bright, aren't they?
L: Yes.
B: Very fair complexioned. I've heard people say, I guess this is
sort of vanity or something, but I've heard people say that we have the
prettiest ____ in the world. Do you believe that?
LUM 160A
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L: Yes, we have the prettiestpeople I think there is anywhere. Seems
like I don't care much who I tell that. But we have really beautiful
people.
B: How about their neighborliness, even friendliness?
L: Yes, they're really friendly.
B: If a person wandered through the community and our people knew
he was hungry, he or she, or needed clothing or a place to sleep.
What, what do you think they would do? What would be their reaction?
L: Oh, they would help him. Anything I can do for anybody,anywhere,
I will. Whatever what I have it belongs to the Lord, and I'll divide
anything I have with anybody that needs it. I don't care who they are.
I have a box of cloth'i that sitting in the house, been sitting there
now for a good while to give away and give one box away. I just need
to go through my clothes. I have a lot to give away. I'm a poor per-
son, but the Lord always gives me something to give. I love to give.
B: That's good.
L: That's my calling and to talk to people about the Lord. That's
my calling. I want to do what he'll have me to do. If you don't do what
the Lord will have you to do he'll take it away from you and give it to
somebody else.
B: You know, I've noticed Christians when I was coming up, well, all
my life practically, and some Christians seem very sad and, you know,
well, But you don't. You don't seem sad. You seem very
happy. Are you happy?
L: I sure is. I'm so happy in the Lord I can't tell it. I'm so happy
eome here and the-fe -tha.-. was a Christian early. I 53-5
I'm so happy if I weren't on this ( r I could run. That's how
LUM 160A
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happy I is in the Lord
B: Well, you're close to the Lord then, aren't you?
L: Yes, I is. Thank the Lord.
B: Do you live alone?
L: Yes.
B: I know you appreciate the Pembroke Housing Authority...
L: Yes, I do.
B: Could you tell us a little something about that and how much it
means to you and how much it means to other poor people. I'm poor, too,
cause I'm living in one of them, and I think I'm rich to get this
beautiful apartment over here.
L: That's right.
B: And for a long time I thought about coming over here, and people
said, "I don't know whether you'd like it or not." But I, I wanted to
be in a good place where it was quiet, nobody bothered you, and what was
comfortable .P lU e, Tell me something about your apartment
L: Oh, it's so wonderful I can't tell it. I didn't have nowhere to stay.
I just was staying here _._ I had my things in an old bus. But
I just stayed here until I got so tired of this '-. The Lord
let me get my apartment, and I'm so glad of it I can't tell it. And it's so nice,
and like they did everything they could to help, to help poor people.
And I really need it, and I can't thank the Lord enough for it.
B: That's great. And I, I've always talked to people, you know, and I've
LUM 16QA
Page 13. dib
heard people talk about you quite often about your cleanliness, about
how immaculately clean you want everything to be. And of course you
exercise some of that very wonderful neighborliness. And ^ J
when I moved in here you came over to help me, and you, probably you
asked, you know, I have my visual handicap, and...
L: Yes.
B: ...I don't do things too well. And anyway, I'm not a good house-
keeper and I was sort of lost over here 4 .
L: Yes.
B: And when you came along, oh boy, that made me feel good. And you've,
you've been so kind to help me.
L: Yes.
B: And it's been that way ever since.
L: Yes, I'm really proud of it, too. Really proud that I can help you.
I love to help anybody. Well, that's my calling is to help people and
do something for people. That's what we're supposed to do. We're supposed
to help one another. That's what the Lord wants us to do. We can't live
by ourselves no way.
B: What was this you said about loving the Lord and loving our neighbor?
Do you remember that?
L: Yes, we're supposed to love our neighbor as we do ourself, and the
scriptures say if anybody has something W6A'ome in and they need
1-
something, it says if you,don't say you're in your warm bed and can't
get up 4 C 3bed, say get up and let them have everything they need.
That's scripture.
LUM 160A
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B: Well, our people practice that kind of Christianity, don't they?
L: Yes, they do.
B: How about the Prospect community out there? Do you think it's a
little bit different than the other Indian communities in the county?
Do you notice any difference about that? Do you think that people
around Prospect are a little more Indian than other people, if that's
possible?
L: Well, they love one another seem like, and help one another.
B: At a certain practical D-' operation
L: That's right.
B: And when one person does something the other people gather around
to help.
L: That's right.
B: Do you remember the way that people used to get together and saw
wood for the winter?
L; That's right.
B: The women in the house would cook food, and d| just get together
and saw enough woof that would last.throughout the winter.
L: That's right.
B: And then after they got through they'd sit down and eat and have
a good time.
L: That's right.
B: Do you think we're getting away from that now?
L: Yes, we're away from that now.
B: Do you think that's a great loss?
LUM 160A
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L: Yes, we, we really enjoyed them times back.then. We really enjoyed
it.
B: Wonder why, why do you think people are drifting apart instead of
closer together?
L: Well, I don't know. The Lord is soon a coming. Yes, he's coming.
B: You believe there's a last day...
L: Yes, I do.
B: _..._4 '_
L: Yes, I'm looking for the Lord to come. I tell you he's soon a coming.
B: You wouldn't be surprised if he appeared tonight, would you?
L: No. No.
B: Hwo about home remedies? You know, our Indian people used to have
a remedy for just about anything. And the amazing thing was that those
remedies really worked.
L: That's right. Yes, they do.
B: Herbs, and different ways of, when you, when they had a foal or,
you know.
L: Yes.
B: Nobody, I think we did everything except home operations.
L: Yes.
B: But there certainly were a lot of home remedies.
L: That's right.
B: Do you think we're getting away from that, too?
L: Yes. We sure is.
B: We're depending more and more on drug stores.
LUM 160A
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L: Yes.
B: And the doctors more.
L: But I don't like them. I'd rather not take medicine. I'd rather
just trust the Lord.
B: Well. But, you know, if it's available ., -n Hel
| \t I D take advantage of t whatever _w the doctor may
have.
L: Well.
B: Although you know healing, all healing -I"
L: Yes, well, he wants us to trust him. I don't trust him just like I
ought to for healing. I'll go a long time and not take medicine. Maybe
I'll go back But I should just depend on him, because he said
by his strife we'd be healed.
B: Do you think we take too much medicine?
L: Yes, I do. Yes, I do.
B: We're starting to depend on it?
L: Yes.
B: Instead of, instead of nature's healing?
L: That's right.
B: That's very interesting. Is there anything in particular you'd like
to talk about?
L: Well, just to talk about the Lord. I really enjoy that, talking about
the Lord.
B: Tats great.
L: TPr^ : "a-
LUM 160A
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B: I think you, you live yours.
L: Yes, I'm ready to go. When he comes I'm ready to go. Thank the Lord.
B: That's great. I envy you very much. I'm sort of, I guess that's a
bad word to use, but I really envy somebody who can be so happy and not
worrying about everything and anything, who does have this faith in the
Lord.
L: That's right. Well, I have it, thank the Lord. I can't thank him
enough. He means so much to me. He's everything to me. I may not have
a dollar, but I'm happy in him. I know if I need something he can make
the way.
B: He always does it?
L: He always does it. He don't never fail me in nothing. Not in nothing.
B: That's great. That sounds like you, you have a very close relation-
ship with the Lord.
L: That's right.
B: Do you remember going, when you were a girl perhaps, going to what we
11 Arf.r iI
call Brushf Iaer fetings and things like these?
L: Well, I guess so. I guess I did. Tents, maybe going to one of the
tent meetings, maybe !5o 0 tl A C ? wagon.
B: I remember your mother was a very fervent Christian, too, and she
seemed like a very happy Christian, too.
L: Yes.
B: Didn't she strike you that way?
L: Oh, that's all she talked about, the Lord.
B: You never saw her sad...
L: No.
LUM 16QA
Page 18, dib
B: ...or wearing a long face.
L: Uh uh. (CLf A V)
B: She woke up in the morning and got up and went about her business)
01f her work, and seemed so very happy.
L: That's right. She sure was.
B: Well, you have, within recent years I believe you have built a new
church. I don't think maybe your group would like me to call it a church.
They call it a hall or a chapel, don't they?
L: Yes.
B: A gospel chapel?
L: Yes.
B: But it, you have a new building within recent years.
L: Yes.
B: And then you have another group out at Prospect, in that area?
L: Yes.
B: e fec r^)
L: Uh huh.
B: Isn't there another group? I notice that your group, the Christians
in your group like to be thought of simply as Christians or believers
or the Lord's people without any names.
L: ,_ _" at the Hall Aw just 'Believers in Christ'.
B: Uh huh.
L: No Lr
B: So this is sort of non-denominational?
L: Uh huh.
LUM 160A
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B: Is this, have these Christians, these particular Christians
been in this country, have we had groups here for a long, long time?
L: Oh, yes.
B: Did we have them when you were a girl?
L: Well, no. I was about, in the twenties, twenty y maybe
thirty-five CmrIvgvo0t. oi iS .
B: I've heard your group referred to as Plymouth Brethren, or simply
as Brethren. Because I guess simply because it began in Plymouth, England,
is that right? And people usually refer to each other or call each other
'brother'.
L: That's right.
B: And no matter where they see each other it's always 'brother'.
L: That's right.
B: And 'sister'.
L: That's right.
B: I don't know whether you watch the news very often or have close
yard of that, but today I want to, well, let's talk for a moment if you
will about the women's place in the home. How do you feel about this?
You know there is a movement going called the Women's Liberation Movement,
and I agree with some of the things like equal pay for equal work and so
on. Maybe I agree with most of them. But how do you feel...
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PAGE 1
LUM 160A Page 1. dib INTERVIEWER: Lew Barton INTERVIEWEE: Mrs. Stella Locklear December 13, 1973 B: This is December 13, 1973. I'm Lew Barton recording for the University of Florida's History Department. This afternoon I am in my home in Pembroke, North Carolina, at 114-C Dial, D-i-a-l, Terrace, T-e-r-r-a-c-e, and with me is Mrs. Stella Locklear, who has kindly consented to give me an interview. Right now while we're doing this interview Mrs. Locklear is washing the dishes for me. Isn't she sweet. Mrs. Locklear, which, which apartment is it that you live in here in Dial Terrace? L: 200-C. B: She's over at the sink and she says she lives at 200-C right here in this block. We'll talk about that just in a minute when you get through and if you'll be kind enough to draw up a chair, and we'll just sit here and talk. And I'll just wait on you till you get through. O.K.? You say you live at 200-C ? L: Yes. B: Would you mind pulling your chair up just a little bit closer? That's good. Who wasoere your people? I know them, but I have to ask you so it goes down on tape. L: Virginia Locklear She wa As ;^l i_ s my mother. B: And where were you born at? L: Right here in Robeson County, Pembroke. B: Do you have any brothers or sisters? L: Yes, I have five brothers and three sisters. B: Do you have any children?
PAGE 2
LUM 160A Page 2. dib L: I have one, Johnny Calahan. B: How old is he? L: Well, he was born in 1925 the first of May. B: What does he do? L: He's an electrician. B: I want all the folks listening to this tape to know what a fabulous cook you are. Mrs. Locklear, you cook like I think our Indian women, I have to brag on them a little bit, you know, and I think they cook the best food that's ever eaten. And your cooking is typically like, like the Indian women cook. And do you, do you remember my grandmother? L: Sure. B: Grandpap Marcus is alive. L: He is a bit fat. B: Right. I remember when I was a little boy, you know, I would eat her cooking and I wasn't old enough to know why she cooked better food than anybody else. But I tried to figure it out and I'd look at her, and she had a few years on her and her hands were wrinkled, and I thought in my childish mind that this was because Grandma's hands were wrinkled. This is why she cooked so well. But she could, she could cook better than Momma could. She could cook better CAI" ~ u *f «£ anybody, and the Indian women e great pride in this, didn't they? L: Yes, they did. B: And do you take pride in your cooking? L: I sure do.
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LUM 160A Page 3. dib B: Do you enjoy your own cooking? L: Sure. B: It's got to be good then. You know, I've heard people say when they cook that it doesn't taste as well as when somebody else cooks. But if it's cooked right it does, doesn't it? L: Yes . i+o . B: Why don't you tell them what we had for supper tonight. L: Well, we had ' re t 5 1AM baked bread . It was really good. B: Oh gosh, that was good. You were brought up in a pretty strict family in a christian home. L: Yes. B: Were your parents very strict on you? L: Oh yes. B: Would they spank you if you did wrong? L: Yes. B: My grandmother spanked me once to crying. My mother wasn't as, my mother, Katherine Ann, she wasn't as strict as grandma. And one day I was crying for something. I was crying for some cake or bread or something or other, and she told me to just be patient and wait. And I didn't. I just can remember it. But my grandmother took my pants down. She said she didn't believe in whipping pants. She wanted to whip the boy. She really did, too. Did your parents punish like this? L: Yes, they did.
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LUM 160A Page 4. dib B: How about if you went to school? Some of the children went to school and they got in trouble in school,and got spanked in school or got whipped.Then they came home and told their parents about it, what would the parents do? L: They would whip him, too. B: They get two. L: And if we didn't learn we got a whipping to learn. B: If you didn't get your lesson you got whipped? L: That's it. We would learn our lesson. B: And sometimes they would use little switches, wouldn't they? L: Uh huh. B: And it really hurts. Where they switched you around the legs with those things it wrapped all around. L: Yes. B: They weren't very large. But they were just keen little switches that really burned you. L: Yes. B: How about like dating habits? Did they always call bedtime when you were dating? L: Oh Yes. B: About what time would they call bedtime? L: About nine o'clock. B: At nine o'clock. And if, if they said bedtime and the fellow didn't take off right away, what would happen? L: I'd get in trouble. B: Do you think things are changing since then?
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LUM 160A Page 5. dib L: Yes. Yes, they are. B: But we're not quite as strict as we used to be, are we? L: No. B: But did you ever do, tell me the truth, did you ever do any dating around at the back of the barn, you know, where you had to fire the barn up at night and keep the barn going? This time they wouldn't call bedtime, because somebody had to sit up with that barn and keep thelogs burning all night. L: Yes, well, I didn't until I was a little older. . n O B: I was always glad o, to do a little dating around abe tobacco barns, because that'S one time they didn't call bedtime. And I guess that's still true, although they use more modern tobacco barns. L: Yes. B: You don't have to sit up with them. L: No. B: But in the old-fashioned tobacco barn you had to check the temperature and the heat ever so often, maybe every twenty or thirty minutes. L: Yes, and they'd just S5 p F 6 t'. B: Somebody would sit until that... L: Sitting up. B: ... that barn was C_ l'" , L: Yes, or lie down and get up and down and watch the barn. the fire going. B: Of course I shouldn't be telling about those days so long ago.
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LUM 160A Page 6. dib They weren't so very long ago, were they? L: No. No they weren't. B: Things have changed very quickly, haven't they? L: Yes, they has. B: How about cotton picking? You never did like that, did you? L: Oh yes. B: You did? L: I love to pick cotton. B: Tell me how much cotton could you pick in a day? L: I, I couldn't pick but about two hundred. But I really loved it. I just loved to pick it. B: Lord, I never picked two hundred in my life. And I had the repuation of being one of the lazy guys in the community, I guess because I just couldn't pick cotton. I would try to make that two hundred. But I never did make it. L: I could make it. I, I just, if I picked by myself I'd pick up two hundred every day. I just really loved to pick it. B: Some people could pick even more. I, I remember hearing about Alice Bullard and some of the Bullard children picking as much as five hundred pounds day. L: Yes, she did. B: Boy, that's something. I don't know how in the world they did it, do you? A~ ) L: No, but she did. I remember her UnclLi did, too, and Ib'iz her brother, , too.
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LUM 160A Page 7. dib B: So you go in the fields, so they went in the fields as soon as it was light enough to see and pick until it was too dark to pick a 1 L: No, they said they'd pick it and leave the Lf^ Ar IA B; Is that right? L: Uh huh. B: Well, they surely were people and still are people who have the reputation of being the hardest working people around. L: That's right. B: The Bullard family. L: The Bullard family. B: Mrs. Locklear, where do you go to church? L: I got to the g eSn Pembroke. B: How about different fashions. We were, you were talking something a little earlier about the way womer fashions .have changed. Do you know I wrote a poem women's fashions that I have a lot of fun with, teasing young people about their, their dresses. I don't really criticize them. But I just have a little fun with them. But I know you are a serious Christian lady, and I want to ask you what do you think about mini-skirts and things like this? L: Well, I just don't like them. B: Say you don't? L: No, I, I'm against them. I just feel like their parents will pay for them for the way they let their children dress. B: Do you think, do you think that maybe these short dresses provoke the guys, or... L: Well, I don't know.
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LUM 160A Page 8. dib B: ... cause them.. L: I guess , I feel like it's sin ecome into the world. B: Is that right? Now of course they've been with us a long time. Do you think that maybe people are getting used to them? L: I guess they are. B: Can you remember how, how long were the skirts when you were a girl? L: Oh, they was dragging the ground,some of them the older folks wore. B: How old are you? I shouldn't ask a lady her age, but I'm going to ask you yours e £ f J . L: I'm sixty-four. B: You're sixty-four. That's certainly wonderful to live to, to live to be sixty-four. L: Yes. And I belong to the Lord. I want to be what he led me to be, and I want my dress to please him. I think we should dress as soldiers. We are soldiers to the Lord. There's like-soldiers ifd Ai4 QCi r , t} <. O e$ctS c You know, all of them, the soldiers ^ t . It don't say that, but they do dress everyone aJlike. They don't be no different from, and God's people is soldiers to the Lord, and we should wear our clothes, we should all be dressed alike, and should be dressed like we belong to the Lord. And I've got to wear mine like that, because I've got to be what the Lord a 9d-have me to do at all times and all places. And anywhere I go I don't change. I don't go to the beauty parlor. I wear my hair_,I wear it the same way all the time. I'm a going where I go. I go to the Lord. B: I've noticed that the bonnet you wear, this is too typical, this too
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LUM 160A Page 9. dib is typically Indian. Like Indian women used to make bonnets, and they wore those bonnets, and I think yours are beautiful. L: That's right. B: And do you like to wear those? L: Yes. I, I just wears it over here, but I really like to wear them. B: You like to wear it when you're working, don't you? L: Uh huh. B: Could you tell us a little something about, describe the bonnet and how you made it and everything, because our listeners and readers probably never saw one. They're very picturesque, and you know... L: Well, I don't whether I could tell just how is was made or not. It has /crown on the top and the ruffle on it and a little_ pdI ' V i * ~ Ali And the bow tie is tied in the back. B: I bet you they wear and wear and wear, that it's hard to wear one of them out I bet. L: That's right. They really wear good. B: Well, can you wash them? Can you throw them in the washing machine and wash them? L: Oh, yes. Throw them right in the wash. Nfhd/fA/yktmade out of permanent press. Why you can ironlor you can not. It look$ better with the iron. B: Uh huh. Do you think people have changed, though, in their attitudes toward dressing and so on? L: Oh, yes. They've changed a lot. B: You walk out on the street now you can see a lot of legs,can't you? L: Yes, there's much differences _____.
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LUM 160A Page 10. dib B: I imagine guys might like that l ' L: I don't know. Some of them don't. They'd rather not even sin. B: I guess you're right. How about schoolSnow. Do you think school's are changing? L: Yes, they do. I think they do. B: Do you think that the teachers are more lenient with students now than they used to be? L: I guess they are. B: Where did you go to school at when you were a girl? Well, you're still a girl. L: Well, I was, we were living below Lumberton, and I went tojschool ______that way. I don't remember the name of the school. It's been so long. B: Have you lived here in Robeson County all your life? L: Well, most of the time, yes. B: Of course you don't look much like an Indian I'm afraidjA You look pure caucasian. But you are an Indian, aren't you? L: That's right. B: Are you proud of it? L: Sure. I'm really proud of it. B: We have, many of our people are very bright, aren't they? L: Yes. B: Very fair complexioned. I've heard people say, I guess this is sort of vanity or something, but I've heard people say that we have the prettiest ____ in the world. Do you believe that?
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LUM 160A Page 11. dib L: Yes, we have the prettiestpeople I think there is anywhere. Seems like I don't care much who I tell that. But we have really beautiful people. B: How about their neighborliness, even friendliness? L: Yes, they're really friendly. B: If a person wandered through the community and our people knew he was hungry, he or she, or needed clothing or a place to sleep. What, what do you think they would do? What would be their reaction? L: Oh, they would help him. Anything I can do for anybody,anywhere, I will. Whatever what I have it belongs to the Lord, and I'll divide anything I have with anybody that needs it. I don't care who they are. I have a box of clothi that sitting in the house, been sitting there now for a good while to give away and give one box away. I just need to go through my clothes. I have a lot to give away. I'm a poor person, but the Lord always gives me something to give. I love to give. B: That's good. L: That's my calling and to talk to people about the Lord. That's my calling. I want to do what he'll have me to do. If you don't do what the Lord will have you to do he'll take it away from you and give it to somebody else. B: You know, I've noticed Christians when I was coming up, well, all my life practically, and some Christians seem very sad and, you know, # rloa c e well, . But you don't. You don't seem sad. You seem very happy. Are you happy? L: I sure is. I'm so happy in the Lord I can't tell it. I'm so happy come here and the--gae -ha.tI. was a Christian early. I 53I 5 I'm so happy if I weren't on this (Cr I could run. That's how
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LUM 160A Page 12. dib happy I is in the Lord B: Well, you're close to the Lord then, aren't you? L: Yes, I is. Thank the Lord. B: Do you live alone? L: Yes. B: I know you appreciate the Pembroke Housing Authority... L: Yes, I do. B: Could you tell us a little something about that and how much it means to you and how much it means to other poor people. I'm poor, too, cause I'm living in one of them, and I think I'm rich to get this beautiful apartment over here. L: That's right. B: And for a long time I thought about coming over here, and people said, "I don't know whether you'd like it or not." But I, I wanted to be in a good place where it was quiet, nobody bothered you, and what was comfortable +pV 'ejU,,, Tell me something about your apartment L: Oh, it's so wonderful I can't tell it. I didn't have nowhere to stay. I just was staying here __ _ had my things in an old bus. But I just stayed here until I got so tired of thisfr . The Lord let me get my apartment, and I'm so glad of it I can't tell it. And it's so nice, and like they did everything they could to help, to help poor people. And I really need it, and I can't thank the Lord enough for it. B: That's great. And I, I've always talked to people, you know, and I've
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LU. 16QA Page 13. dib heard people talk about you quite often about your cleanliness, about how immaculately clean you want everything to be. And of course you exercise some of that very wonderful neighborliness. And when I moved in here you came over to help me, and you, probably you asked, you know, I have my visual handicap, and... L: Yes. B: ... I don't do things too well. And anyway, I'm not a good housekeeper and I was sort of lost over here # . L: Yes. B: And when you came along, oh boy, that made me feel good. And you've, you've been so kind to help me. L: Yes. B: And it's been that way ever since. L: Yes, I'm really proud of it, too. Really proud that I can help you. I love to help anybody. Well, that's my calling is to help people and do something for people. That's what we're supposed to do. We're supposed to help one another. That's what the Lord wants us to do. We can't live by ourselves no way. B: What was this you said about loving the Lord and loving our neighbor? Do you remember that? L: Yes, we're supposed to love our neighbor as we do ourself, and the scriptures say if anybody has something A t ome in and they need something, it says if you,don't say you're in your warm bed and can't get up4 C AXCbed, say get up and let them have everything they need. That's scripture.
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LUM 160A Page 14. dib B: Well, our people practice that kind of Christianity, don't they? L: Yes, they do. B: How about the Prospect community out there? Do you think it's a little bit different than the other Indian communities in the county? Do you notice any difference about that? Do you think that people around Prospect are a little more Indian than other people, if that's possible? L: Well, they love one another seem like, and help one another. B: At a certain practical __ -operation 'e . L: That's right. B: And when one person does something the other people gather around to help. L: That's right. B: Do you remember the way that people used to get together and saw wood for the winter? L; That's right. B: The women in the house would cook food, and Jd just get together and saw enough woo4 _y that would last.throughout the winter. L: That's right. B: And then after they got through they'd sit down and eat and have a good time. L: That's right. B: Do you think we're getting away from that now? L: Yes, we're away from that now. B: Do you think that's a great loss?
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LUM 160A Page 15. dib L: Yes, we, we really enjoyed them times back.then. We really enjoyed it. B: Wonder why, why do you think people are drifting apart instead of closer together? L: Well, I don't know. The Lord is soon a coming. Yes, he's coming. B: You believe there's a last day... L: Yes, I do. ? B: _... _ _I_4_ ' L: Yes, I'm looking for the Lord to come. I tell you he's soon a coming. B: You wouldn't be surprised if he appeared tonight, would you? L: No. No. B: Hwo about home remedies? You know, our Indian people used to have a remedy for just about anything. And the amazing thing was that those remedies really worked. L: That's right. Yes, they do. B: Herbs, and different ways of, when you, when they had a foal or, you know. L: Yes. B: Nobody, I think we did everything except home operations. L: Yes. B: But there certainly were a lot of home remedies. L: That's right. B: Do you think we're getting away from that, too? L: Yes. We sure is. B: We're depending more and more on drug stores.
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LUM 160A Page 16. dib L: Yes. B: And the doctors more. L: But I don't like them. I'd rather not take medicine. I'd rather just trust the Lord. B: Well. But, you know, if it's available ,f ; ^ € /) k| ID take advantage of iit whatever "_ . _w the doctor may have. L: Well. 4 ESi B: Although you know healing, all healing ~-" L: Yes, well, he wants us to trust him. I don't trust him just like I ought to for healing. I'll go a long time and not take medicine. Maybe I'll go back _. But I should just depend on him, because he said by his strife we'd be healed. B: Do you think we take too much medicine? L: Yes, I do. Yes, I do. B: We're starting to depend on it? L: Yes. B: Instead of, instead of nature's healing? L: That's right. B: That's very interesting. Is there anything in particular you'd like to talk about? L: Well, just to talk about the Lord. I really enjoy that, talking about the Lord. B: Tat's great. L: rr S ^-S: G us'
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LUM 160A Page 17. dib B: I think you, you live yours. L: Yes, I'm ready to go. When he comes I'm ready to go. Thank the Lord. B: That's great. I envy you very much. I'm sort of, I guess that's a bad word to use, but I really envy somebody who can be so happy and not worrying about everything and anything, who does have this faith in the Lord. L: That's right. Well, I have it, thank the Lord. I can't thank him enough. He means so much to me. He's everything to me. I may not have a dollar, but I'm happy in him. I know if I need something he can make the way. B: He always does it? L: He always does it. He don't never fail me in nothing. Not in nothing. B: That's great. That sounds like you, you have a very close relationship with the Lord. L: That's right. B: Do you remember going, when you were a girl perhaps, going to what we ,1 Ar!r it call Brush feIaPet things and things like these? L: Well, I guess so. I guess I did. Tents, maybe going to one of the tent meetings, maybe 5O Cl A C wagon. B: I remember your mother was a very fervent Christian, too, and she seemed like a very happy Christian, too. L: Yes. B: Didn't she strike you that way? L: Oh, that's all she talked about, the Lord. B: You never saw her sad... L: No.
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LUM 160A Page 18, dib B: ... or wearing a long face. L: Uh uh. (thL e AfVt B: She woke up in the morning and got up and went about her business) rf. her work, and seemed so very happy. L: That's right. She sure was. B: Well, you have, within recent years I believe you have built a new church. I don't think maybe your group would like me to call it a church. They call it a hall or a chapel, don't they? L: Yes. B: A gospel chapel? L: Yes. B: But it, you have a new building within recent years. L: Yes. B: And then you have another group out at Prospect, in that area? L: Yes. B: 4eACflc L: Uh huh. B: Isn't there another group? I notice that your group, the Christians in your group like to be thought of simply as Christians or believers or the Lord's people without any names. L: ___ _ L_~" " at the Hall Aw just 'Believers in Christ'. B: Uh huh. L: No I' si B: So this is sort of non-denominational? L: Uh huh.
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LUM 160A Page 19. dib B: Is this, have these Christians, these particular Christians been in this country, have we had groups here for a long, long time? L: Oh, yes. B: Did we have them when you were a girl? L: Well, no. I was about, in the twenties, twenty_ , maybe thirty-five Cm'%icr hon. o iS1. B: I've heard your group referred to as Plymouth Brethren, or simply as Brethren. 5Because I guess simply because it began in Plymouth, England, is that right? And people usually refer to each other or call each other 'brother'. L: That's right. B: And no matter where they see each other it's always 'brother'. L: That's right. B: And 'sister'. L: That's right. B: I don't know whether you watch the news very often or have close yard of that, but today I want to, well, let's talk for a moment if you will about the women's place in the home. How do you feel about this? You know there is a movement going called the Women's Liberation Movement, and I agree with some of the things like equal pay for equal work and so on. Maybe I agree with most of them. But how do you feel...
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