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Interview with Dawrie Lowry July 5 1974

Material Information

Title:
Interview with Dawrie Lowry July 5 1974
Creator:
Lowry, Dawrie ( Interviewee )
Publication Date:
Language:
English

Subjects

Subjects / Keywords:
Florida History ( local )
Lumbee Oral History Collection ( local )
Spatial Coverage:
Lumbee County (Fla.)

Notes

Funding:
This text has been transcribed from an audio or video oral history. Digitization was funded by a gift from Caleb J. and Michele B. Grimes.

Record Information

Source Institution:
Samuel Proctor Oral History Program, Department of History, University of Florida
Holding Location:
This interview is part of the 'Lumbee County' collection of interviews held by the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program of the Department of History at the University of Florida
Rights Management:
Made available under a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 4.0 International license: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/.

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LUM 150 A Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Interview with: Dawrie Lowry July 5, 1974
Interviewer: Marilyn Taylor
Interview date: August 1, 1973
Page 1



I: My name is Marilyn Taylor, I'm recording for the Doris Duke Foundation,

for the American Indian Ora Studies Program, today is August 1, 1973.

With me I have a gentleman who has graciously consented to an interview.

Achially we are in a store here and we are waiting out a thunder-

storm, it's so bad we can't go out, so I asked him for an interview, and

he said if we could find out something to talk about, well he'd give

me one. So we're geft afempt to find out all we can. Sir what's your

full name?

L: Dawrie Lowry.

I: Would you spell that for people? People get that messed up, you know

t4hyx-e all kind of ways to spell it.

L: D-A-W-R-I-E.

I: Lowry is--

L L-0-W-R-Y.

I: O.K. That's a famous name. Does that mean you are related to

Henry Barry Lowery any?

L: Well, I might be, I d6n't know for sure. Could be as far as I know.

I: Would you tell us, sir, where you live now?

L: I live in Pembroke here.
Ib
I: How long have you lived in Pembroke?

L: Oh, about all my life. About 4Q years.

I: Do you have a family? Are you married or single?

L: Single.

I: You mentioned something about you had, have you lived out of this area

any of your life, or worked, you mentioned you drove a truck? What

kind of trucks were you speaking about?






LUM 150 A Typist: Margaret Lenkway
July 5, 1974

Page 2



L: Well, short basedtrucks. I've drove tractors and trailers a little,

going and coming, I wouldn't be gone maybe but a day and a night, not

over a week.

I: As I told you this had to do with American Indians. As an Indian

what group do you identify with? Would you say Lumbee, Tekke, Robeson

County what? You know everybody has their own favorite way of being

identified if we have to be that way. Or what group or name would you

prefer?

L: Well Lumbee, I guess, myself.

I: Why, do you p*fer this one, since we do have some that's pulling out,

and leaving and going other waysand wanting other names, and so on.

L: Well it seemed like it more, ah, thisATuhkee+ mess that's more or less

t-he ,O \+U6 1' 5 trying to get up something or another, to

try to have a big fuss or something.

I: Can you see that they doing any good?

L: No.
-y
I: To the ahy anybody or-- .,

L: No.

I: Do you think they're helping the American Indian?

L: No--

I: You don't?

L: I think they're hurting 3. w,

I: In what way do you feel like they are hurting, or are hurting US

L: Well I a II-,,I

I: Is it the violence, sometimes that they've been, we can't maybe prove





LUM 150 A Typist: Margaret Lenkway
July 5, 1974

Page 3



but they've been known, or accused of- '7

L: Accused of, well, C__1]w 3/, '&

I: Well we know that they've marched, and done several things that

it's been evident we could see. Is it the way they go about doing things

that your against?

L: Yes.

I: You"vsay you've been living here now how long?

L: About ears.

I: What's some of the greatest change you've seen in Pembroke since

you've been here? I know there's been OT >u I KDO) to think about,

I mean several even ___ if you want to try to recall?

L: Well I think, the college kg that's a good

improvement I think-Y

I: Can you remember when it was an all I dian College?

L: Yeah, uh huh-(affirmative).

I: What was the feeling here in -the hitpeople? So often do0 0CD WWV t

{ did they want it or not, or how, what was the feeling on it?

L: Well yes, would the majority, you know to keep the college from

being closed. Why one time I remember there wasn't any about ..l0e

students, and they couldn't operate the collegewith a number of students

like that.

I: Were you for the college staying here? Would you have it inte grated

rather than lo se it?

L: Oh, yes, yes.

I: There was a great deal af talk about the Main building over there,





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July 5, 1974

Page 4





that was the college at one time\Old Main". Did you have any

thought in building this, or *.*

L: Well I didn't have anything neither way to do with it.

I: How did you feel about it, when it was being talked about it

so much, whether to save it or do away with it? -

L: Well I, it didn't make too much difference, but I sort'a wish, if they

could work out something to keep the building. Bu ou know it didn't

worry me enough to start fussing or anything over it.

I: Yeah, I see what you mean. Do you see any reason people ought

to fuss like they did or how it happened?

L: No really I didn't.

I: Do you have any idea on you know it was lombed it-wae actually

gutted out, but I believe the people meant to burn it down. But do you

have any idea who or why, what reason?

L: NoI sure don't.

I: It's just a great big question mark and a puzzle seem like to every-

body, and we, we all talk about it and wonder. And I wonder if you had
OA-
any opinion yourself who did it, a group or any particular person who

might have done it, or would want to?

L: No, I wouldn't have the least idea.

I: You didn't never give it a thoughts to who might have done it?

L: No.

I: What other changes have you noticed other then the college? Is it

the growth? I know it's a lot bigger today?

L: Yes, yes. Um hum sure--






LUM 150 A Typist: Margaret Lenkway
July 5, 1974

Page 5


I: What else can you say you've noticed wt ?

L: Well I reckon that's about the biggest thing'I ve noticed.

I: Has the college, do you think changed the town any?

L: Yes.

I: What-- / h^^

L: Well, like moreor lessAthe apartments and things like that here in

the town. I think the college helped start that.

I: Do you think it's helped bring more money into the town?

L: Oh, yes;-9

I: More things, give people more jobskJ

L: Yesj- sure, yes. A lot more jobs too. A lot of people are working

out there wouldn't have a job on the campus.

I: Do you have any friends or relatives thatwork for the college?

L: Yeah, I have some out there, yes, friends I know well.

I: Do they seemed to be pleased or displeased?

L: Yeah, they're all really liking their job fine. That I talk with.

I: You mentioned that you haven't been in good health in the last few

years, is it anything you can tell us about or would care to comment about?

'Cause this is no right or wrong answers,you can say on this we are just
" \ hVlr'' 4t(y're
trying to get a persons feelings in twhae, where there staying and

what their circumstances is today, and we'd like to know yours if you

would share it with us?

L: Well I sure will, I mean I've been sick. I've had several operations

in the last five years, I was in Dukes Hospital, itU --

wellsix different times. When I got sick I was took to Lumberton Hospital






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July 5, 1974

Page 6





I stayed in there three months and three weeks straight, and tbhoAe -"

half the time during the time I was there I was blanked out, and they

finally got me to where I could come to e Avt. is that there

was a hurtin' in my chest and they operated on me, took X-Rays and

said it was my gall bla r operated n e and said it was

busted in me, and I stayed there then about a month and a half after-

ward. They brought me home and I stayed on the bed there, maybe a

couple of weeks till they got me in at Duke's, and so I went up there

and stayed doctored me and treated me and I took five operations up

there.

I: And what was the problem up therethat you had to have so many operations?

L: Well it was something concerning my stomach inside, I don't know

what all they did do. But I know they took out a third of my stomach

with one of the operations.

I: Well does this slow you down, or keep you, handicap you today to

some degree?

L: Oh yes, sure. .-

I: Well you must have been a rich man toAafford9ed all these operations?

I went in the hospital one time and I thoughrI'd never get the bill
', 7
payed fer. Who helped you with, or did you have help)let me ask you that,

how did you get these operations from financial standpoint, let me ask

you, how was this managed?

L: Well the only thing, I had one insurance Blue Shield, and the rest

I been a trying to pay the best I could.





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July 8, 1974

Page 7



I: What's youVmain, would you say your main source of income is now?

Do you have an income, or work or--?

L: No, about the only thing I income now is a little social security,

disable.

I: So you had a tremendous amount of medical expense there at one time,

you still have to have some---'''

L: Yes-_

I: Certain medicines and medications--a it'

L: Yes, um huh.

I: How are these furnished to you? Since they are quite high and I

know you are not always able to afford them.

L: Well, nothing only:what Iiget I have-to get it myself, a'far as

medicine anything like that.

I: Since this is an\ Indian study I'd like to ask if you during the

times you were sick and operations you had to have and so on, did you

ever feel discriminated against beeAm e--fthe fact you are an Indian?

L: No--

I: You never did an ay?

L: No--

I: Have you ever in any of your life ime, of growing2upl or going to

schol dri"" like this?

L: No, no.-

I: You can't)honestly say you have never been treated in an way that

was wronglyou felt you'd been wronged in anyay?

L: No, noa treated just as good as a person could treat me, in and

oul of the hospital.






LUM 150 A Typist: Margaret Lenkway
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Page 8.





I: Even when-- hat about when you go to Lumberton over there to

oa4O....loff?

L: They's treats me,, them that knows me, like the ones in the

hospital, or if anybodie- any business over there that knows me

treats me just as good as they could anybody.

I: I know there is some, you know feelings of people feeling like

they been done wrong, Icause I've talked to them and I justI wondered

if whether you had any feelingQ that you'd been done wrong?

L: No, like I &e d anybody that knows me(peaking about over in

Lumberton, anybody that knows me I know themthey treat me, nobody

mistreats me ove there. Course you know somebody that don't know

you they ain't gonna' talk and go on with you, like somebody that do

know you personally and you know them.

I: Wel5 these things we trying to find out you know if a person's

been treated wrong, if he feels like he's been treated wrong, or if

she feels like she's been treated wrong, because they're IndiansAwe want

to bring them out, and get them out in the open, you see.

L: Yeah, yes,

I: And this is one of the primary reasons, to get you feelings and your
Ith( YA+mt^ lItrt
attitudes on howkthings are today and how they were, and do you think

things are getting better for the American Indian?

L: Yes, I do.

I: What do you think some of the changes that you've seen in your life-

time that's better for, even here we're not on a reservation like a lot





LUM 150 A Typist: Margaret Lenkway
July 8, 1976
M
Page 9



of Indians, here how do you see things as better?

L: Well, I mean just more or lessvany place you go to, whyj you can go

in if it's someplace where they serve you can go in-O/

I: Serve food and stuff?

L: Yeah, uh huh(affirmative). -7 VT -

I: Used to not be that waythey wouldn't serve an Indian if they knew

he was an Indian*

L: That's right. No, no. A lot of drug stores you couldn't even go in,

you could go in and buy medicine, but the.fist sit down, you couldn't_

sit down, if you got the medicine you had to get it and come rightAout.

I: How'd this make you feel?

L: Well it made you feel sort'a bad.

I: ver make you feel like lighting a fire or something?

L: Well no.-

I: tk^'4 \luVCL) t A )LO 1 k

L: And the more or less I'd never go to a place--

I: Did it hurt yesahf-

L: Yeah, it did. I'd never go to a place whar hrev to go to a

place where thee eny way I could get around it.

I: In other words all the places weren't like this? Like aj f!-C

/rug stores weren't like this?

L: No, some of them. Anywhere mostly in Robgson County I'd say -_'



I: Unless you were in Pembroke, maybe?

L: Yes.

I: How 'bout over in Re springs?






LUM 150 A Typist: Margaret Lenkway
July 8, 1974

Page h0



L: Re springsthat's one.

I: Iive been told it's kind bad over there. Do you have any experience

over there?

L: Well. no, but I know th but I never did

go in the drug stores.

I: Do you have any friends ,l^ -I ( 1,* i 1...' *
; d
L: Yeah, yeah, oh yeah.

I: Whatssome of the things you've heard about in that area?

L: Well, no more or less like I say if you went in there you couldn't

sit down, if you bought something you couldn't sit down and eat it, y Er

a drink, you couldn't sit down and drink it, you'd have to take it and

go on out.

I: Why do you think this was? Did they think that the Indian was Ipys

what did they think he was? Was he going to bother them or something,

why was this? often wondered just sit down, why did they

make a rule like that.

L: I don't know if 1,

I: Did they think- 7 i- ut it's not that way now, is it?

L: No, no.

I: Have you been to Redsprings any lately, or anybody you know



L: Yes, yes..

I: Sometimes it's hard to tell people being Indian you know. I we ,

mfajL-]A i people mistake me and then they t f

white or aet b., 6 ,!. .< or Cher kee white

completed people as there are dark ones. And you find that a lot in






LUM 150 A Typist: Margaret Lenkway
July 8, 1974

Page 11


the Lumbee people toA I think. But, as I never felt it too much
7
unless, well I just tried to stay out of the area where I knew they were

against Indians.

L: Yes.
I
I: Really against it, 'cause I sort a cause I

never did want 'get in a fight or nothing M.4 f Cr- Le :1-' .

L: Yes, you could go right up here in Scotland CountyAbe treated

differently th n you could in Robeson.

I: Now?

L:40d before, and when it was--

I: How do they treat you now?

L: Thyy treat you fine. I mean this--

I: How did it used to be?

L: Well it always was like that they didn't have

I: In Scotland County they didn't give the Indian fair treatment?

L: Oh, they did, oh yeah, oh yes.

I: Always done that?

L: Um huh ( affirmative).

I: You know there's been all kind of tales and stories and things told

about, just where was it the Lumbee people come from? Do you have any

opinion about that? Where you think the, where we really originated

from?

L: Well I tell you the truth I don't know.

I: Well, if somebody asked you, I mean there's been books written about

it, and people have told different stories that they've been told, and





LUM 150 A Typist: Margaret Lenkway
July 8, 1974

page 12





research and college people, scholarly people, you know researched it

out and so on. I've just wondered if you've had any thoughts on your

own on it what you've heard, and so on?

L: Well I ain't never thought about it too much.

I: Did it ever bother you--

L: No, no, no.

I: Don't bother you where you come from and that kind'a stuff?

L: No, no.

I: Main thing I guess is where you're going, isn't it?

L: Yeah, you could say it.

I: I believe we're still in a thunderstorm, the lights flick on-and off

every now and then. I believe it can rain harder in Pembroke then

anywhere else, or maybe I'm prejudiced but I swear it can rain down

here. I guess it's cause I'm over the campus sometimes and when it

rains the water stands on the ground for an hour or two.

L: Yeah, where's your home?

I: I'm one of fherethe mountain rs up f-em-the Cherokee. My

father lives in Forest City, he's 3 h Cherokee.

L: Well i (i y i / v ---

that's the reason I asked this thing, like when it rains it rains

harder up there then it does down here.

1: Well it seems like that in different areas. How long did you spend

in Charlotte?





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L: Well I just.goes up there and comes, I mean maybe a day.

I: Do you have relatives or anything up there?

L: Yes, I know several from down here that lives up there.

I: You mentioned that you were, needed to be in because of your

health and so on, eed you're not able to hold on to a full-time job,

so what do you do for past' time? Don-Lt you get bored and stuff like

that, don't you have a hobby or something to do to keep the time from
-7
getting on your nerves too much and bothering you.

L: No, not too much of nothingV.

I: What's one of the main things you do?

L: Well I just peddle, nothing particularly.

I: What are you going to trPk.I Ivrt' give me some

idea so I can--,,

L: Well you know maybe, you know at home I might try and work a little bit

with the garden or something like that, you know.

I: But you do, you could well stay busy doing something, something

which is not too strenuous?

L: Yeah, when I feel like it, when I don't feel too weak or anything.

I: Well is there some medicine or anything you can take to correct your
/11
"A 7
health it ,*o- t, ti C)

L: Well I've got sugar and I have to take/Aedicine for that ever ay.

1: Is this i./ ____something you take by mouth, or yo u

have to take- /`, S

L: Shots.

I: Do you give yourself the shots?

L: Yes.






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Page 14



I: Do you find thi\bothers you? Some people said when they first

started it, I talked to diabetics and so on, 9j-
q ;r
that when they first have to give themselves shots it bothers them,

but afterwards they get used to it. Do you ever get used to it?

L: Well it never didn't bother me because when I was in the hospital

they give me so many shots I was usen' toward it, but probably somebody

like you say hadn't never been bothered fj giv nIn takon a lot

of shots or something why I know it went hard with them to start, but

me I was used -

I: Well did you have a certain time everyday that you used to give them,

or just whenever you think of it?
c/
L: Every -' every mornings before I eats breakfast I have to take one,

and at supper time I have to take another. I have to take two a day.

Different units, you know.

I: Do you live with some relatives?

L: I live with my sister.

I: With you sister. I guess she helps out with the cooking and stuff

like that?

L: Oh yes.

I: You all sorta share things. And what's her name?

L: Ada. Ada.

I: Ada Lowry?

L: Yes.

I: Does she work at a res urant or something around here?

L: No. N1.

I: Does she work outside the home anywhere?

L: No.






LUM 150 A Typist: Margaret Lenkway
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Page 15


I: Seems like I heard the name before.

L: That's the only thing she do is keep her girls baby boy. Her

girl's baby.

I: Babysits, sorta.

L: Yeah.

I: Wel5 what's her daughter's name?

L: Ida Bell.

I: Ida Bell Lowry?

L: Yeah.

I: She works? Where does she work?

L: Down uj I don't know the name of it, down here

the edge of town, a trailer park, where they build trailer homes.

I: Well it must be a housing-' %.t



I: I know where you're talking about, but I can't think of the name of

it, but it's right new, they haven't --

L: That's right.

I: That's not Mr. Oxidine? OrLumbee Trailer Courts or something like

that?

L: No, noye4 Lumbee CourtAthat's out toward Union Ghppat, out in the

country couple a miles, two or three miles out, you just go here on the

edge of town down here.

I: Oh yeah, as you're going towards Lumberton.

L: That's right.

I: I know what you're talking about now. /// V4/ U7furi/, /llct.

about being in the past, about people getting upset, you know, and u talking

about treating Indians and things like that. What do you think is the
-b>





LUM 150 A Typist: Margaret Lenkway
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Page 16









main reason for this? Is it just people like to fight or just

like to get something startedor **'

L: Well to my opinion they just some of them likes to get something

started. har^kfl

I: Is this sorta hebying, or what is it?

L: Yeah, that's all, the-way I look at it. Yes.

I: Does he get sort^ of a thrill out of it or what?

L: Well it seems that way to me.

I: Would you join with the Tusca ora group?

L: No mame.X AIa ,

I: You don't have any reason to?

L: N(, noj no mame.. VM O

I: They seem to offer some a, you know a better deal, and I was wondering,

I usually this question. If I'm talking to a Tuscarora yask him why

he joined the Tuscarora, you know, if it was a better deal.

L: Is that right.

I: But, they usuallyWot some reason, everybody5got a reaso5 you know,

their reason anyway Phether it makes sense to anybody else, his kind

of thing but I always respect everybody else's opinion, f 1z/i /?

cafie oU4i- don't have to agree with them but you can

respect that he's got a right. Umy is there anybody else I haven't talked

about, or something you'd like to talk about that I hadn't mentioned,

things that's happening today? I don't believe we got into politics.

Are you interested in that any?





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Page 17



L: That's something I neverdid have nothing' to do with.

I: Do you vote?

L: Take up my time. Yeah, I vote.

I: What are youa Democrat or Republican?

L: Well I voted a Democrat.

I:, What about the governor, Holshouser? Did you go a long with him?

Now he was, I believe he was a Republican on the state, 7C e

L: No I don't think, no I didn't.

I: You didn't?

L: Um uhft(N@. (_hov v .

I: I believe he came down /I/, !tr/ikd several times. Started his

campaign here in- Q Pfd / / l I was told.

L: I don't know. He might have.

I: I believe he did, if I'm not mistaken, I read it somewhere. What

about, what church do you go to? Do you go to church any?

L: Yeah, I go to church, but I don't have no certain one, I goes

around like .I say and visit.

I: Do you?

L: Yeah, more or less.

I: h7 well whatsyouN. pick of all of them if you had to settle down

to one, so to speak?

L: Well that'd be hard. I mean--

I: Be hard to say?

L: Yeah.

I: What's the important thing/ /o you think of a denomination, and you

know they have different beliefs that- Do you believe in G-;-1





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Page 18



L: Yeah, sure. Yes.
-7
I: Do you believe he was the creator of all things\ uINA r 41 1(2 ST

L: Yes.

I: Do you believe in prayer?

L: Yes.

I: Do you exercise a-ty prayer life?

L: Yes.

I: What are some of the things you might would pray fora\f that's

not getting too personal?
For
L: I pray for, well I I thank the lord living, I pray for that,

maybe some--

I: Do you enjoy living?

L: Yes, I does, yes I does.

I: A person sometimes as you say is not in good health, have you ever

seen a time when you would have welcomed death?

L: I reckon I've been mighty sick, hurt, I've hurt, burnt, and you call

it weak, and anything you might call I've been, I've been-S 5

as bad a shape as any man living and I never thought about, like some

people you know like shootkn' theirsel or doing theirsel some

harm like that.

I: Or asking the doctor to give you a shot to put you out of your, to

put you out of your misery so to speak. A lot of people will do this.

L: Well I've asked them when I've had my mind to ask them, maybe a nurse

could she give me a shot to mayte ease me off, you know.

I: But not one that would just put you on out of the, put you to sleep--
0J- A, *,il -







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Page 19



L: I've asked mostly for pain like,Arelease viy pa"v74 "

I: You hadn't ever seen a time when you thought you'd be better off

dead?

L: No, no. I've always--

I: Even in your worst suffering?

L: No, I always wanted to help it, I never thought about dying, I mean

that I'd rather be dead, or something like that.

1: A lot of times people when they are in pain think these things.

L: Oh, yes. A lot of times if somethings bothering somebody that's

when they do these things, but it didn't never but cross my mind, that

I was wanting to try and get help.

I: Did you find it in times like this that you'd pray?

L: Oh, yes, yes when you hurtin' bad enough, or something you'll pray

and think, and ask somebody else to pray for you that you know that's l-cCti'

living a good Christian life.

I: You mean you believe in the power of prayer?

L: Yes. Yes.

I; Yet you don't say that your connected with any particular denomination?

L: No.

I: It's just that you're in a relationship, just you and G d.

L: That's right.

I: Do you think we have a loving G-d? Or, sometimes it seems like his

judgement is harsh, at times have you ever felt this way?

L: No, I haven't.

I: Do you think he's ali together a loving G2d?





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Page 20






L: Yes.

I: But you've had things Mr. Lowry, in your life that's been hard to deal

with and hard for you to live withl"

L: Yes.

I: And you still maintain that he's a loving G d?

L: Yes. He, he'll do like, I feel like he'll do, put these things on

you if you ain't living right to see if you'll make a change.

I: Well do you think some ofthese, the things, the worst things maybe

like healthwise and pain and so on, do you feel, have they made a change

in your life?

L: Yes.

I: Brought about a change?

L: Oh, yes, yes.

I: In what way? For the better?

L: For the better. You take me I used, I wasn't never didn't walk-

in no trouble, never has been arrested, or bothered whatsoever with

no law, nothing. But still on Sunday morning I went some other way

besides the church, I didn't have church on my mind too much.

I: Did you drinkor anything like that?

L: WellI never wasn't bad for drinking.

I: Just a little bit alone? ,

L: Yeahimaybe with somebody going out and bding social like, but far

as the hard drunk, i no. Never wasn't drunk, say drunk in

my life.

I: Can't remember ever being what you call drunk?





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July 9, 1974

Page 21



L: No.

I: ko you didn't know what was happening?

L: No.

I: Do you think then that you've made a better person by having sffer

suffered the way you have?

L: Yes, yes.

I: And you don't resent it, or think that maybe GAd been hard on you

as a person?

L: No, no I really don't, I wouldn't say that. He put, like I feel like

what was on me, he, it was for my good, he put it on me for my good.

I: But wasn't there a time, sometime or another that you felt like

maybe you'N beingV put more on you thIn you could bae? -t-i you ever

felt that at times?

L: No, no I haven't.

I: Your faith never wavered in the least?

L: No.

I: That's hard to understandrj-

L: Yeah--

I: ___ __au mne.-eae problems I've never had any-

thing to contend with to that extent of, you know that you have, but

sometimes I get to feeling that maybe it's just a little bit more tLAn

I can b7re. Maybe I need to have more faith? You reckon that's the

problem, oLhat is it, what would you think would be with people that

felt this way, and mayb ried or fussed a little bit the way life

had dealt them and so on?

L: Well it's hard for me to say.






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July 9, 1974

Page 22



I: Well you've got an opinion, you got an opinion. You think and 7.0s

you know you don't have to come out and you know get it right because

there's really no right or wrong answer but you sort of speculate and

think a little bit about it.

L: People have different opinions about things, I mean--

I: Yeah, but what do you think. That's what I want your opinion. Cause

we do have different ones and I want yours.

L: Well I know, I don't think, I don't think that the Lord had put more

on a person then it could base, I mean if he, 4-he., he's the one that

got the power, I mean he ain't gonna put more on youdhin you can-bare,

if it's his w$ll. That's the way I feel, you know, like I say-everybody

ain't alike, some '" we're talking about the church--,,"

I: Excuse me, I'm sorry, you have to get closer, if you get too far away

I lose your voice.

L: There some people, you know, denominations I'd say like if you and

me would go out tonight we'd get, have us a party I'd say more or less,

drink, and turn around tomorrow we could get forgiveness for, well you

see. A least for some people,that's why I say got different re R-

I: tIL I(e /1 go ahead and do it because you goigg to get forgiven

anyway.

L: Yeah, yeah.

I: The only thing about that I get scared ofA I mighhave to, something

happened I'd get killed right in the middle of it, and I might not have

time to get forgiven, and then where would I end up f you think about

it I guess there is such a thing as a death bed sort of a salvation
maybe, if a man- dying of it could be saved if he had
maybe, if a man '5r-womono dying of it thiy could be saved if he had






LUM 150 A Typist: Margaret Lenkway
July 11, 1974

Page 23



time to ask for it. Or do you believe that way?

L: Yeah, yeah, I've heard people, I think so if a person got time to,--

I: You know religion means, some denominations maintain you got to be

paptised and you got to go through f\ and you got to do this

and that kind of thing, and you got to go through this book and learn what

it says in here, and eight so many verses, and so on, you know different

things like this vell a man ain't got time to do all that he's dying

and he asks the lord to save him, you think he, he can be saved? In

other words, death bec'salvation, I guess yonim-tTt call it for lack of

a better word?

L: Yes, I feel like it if he has time enough to give and he's got the

faith, the faith in the Lord, he can be saved. Cause that's what it

takes. You got to have the faith.

I: Mr. Lowry, what do you think would help the Indian people more

then anything else? I mean to have a better life and to have a better

outlook. Now this like research, you knowpeople in the college and

all hey go around and make researches and they take studies, and so on

andthey found out that there's many Indian peoples drinking themselves

to death that's got high intelligence, I mean good brains, you know
"V J
could use them and Qmi d-be a blessing to the people for better things

but they drinking theirselves to death, and some of thems, there a high

rate of suicide, they go outand kill theirselves. 'h, sorta depressing

to talk about these things, but it's, again it's apart of the harsh

realities, just like your operation is, but we have to live with and 4.

face. What do youth in your opinion think would, it maybe just one thing,

it might be several things, that could help the Indian people more thn





LUM 150 A Typist: Margaret Lenkway
July 11,1974

Page 24





anything else? Maybe you never thought about it, but--',.,

L: No I really ain't.

I: You, think about it, I mean if you want to take a minute and see

what you think would help. I t might not be no great big thing, I mean you know

sometimes it's the small things that--J-,,

L: Yeah, but I ain't never really give it a thought ut Uiti., -

I: Are you proud to be an Indian?

L: Yeah, I really is, it don't worry me.

I: Well that's the way it ought to be, but you know some people not- 9/

You wouldn't change nothing else? You wouldn't change to be nothing else,

would you?

L: No, I don't reckon but I mean -/'"

I: I know what you mean, you wouldn't boast but you're

proud to be what you are.

L: Yeah, yeah, sure.

I: Yeah, that's the way it ought to be.

L: I look at it this a way, y talkAabout /Indian or

white if I was white and you didn't want me # ,

this is a lot of people's trouble, and if I was hiite you didn't want

me, I mean you knew both of us and you didn't want me, you wouldn't have
p-N
me. Alt right if I'm an -Indian and you were white and we meet and you

want me, a right we boths gets together. Now that's the way I look

"ait the thing.

I: It has to be a mutual, both people-(-,,

L: Yeah, both people.






Lum 150 A Typist: Margaret Lenkway
July 11, 1974

Page 25


7
I: In other words you don't put it on a race basis.

L: No, no no.

I: Just people to people, just like you say you might not like somebody

but it might not be because of thei4race-Q(9

L: Yes that's right, that's right.

I: Yeah I see what you mean.

L: Yeah, cause we got our own race of people, and in the Indian race

I don't like, I don't approve with afemebody- r tS, IA

I: But it's not because Indian, it's just the way they act.

L: No, no they act, yeah and the way they are, that's right.
"T See. w(l\ I:A Well I guess, I'm sortV\a half-breed myself, that's kindA a bad word

but I've learned to live with it, and accept ityou might as well cause

there's nothing I can do about it.

L: Say you are half? Ua

I: Yeah, my Mother's English, my Daddy6 44ths. Cherokee and I've got

some other stuff, Dutch and Irish and all this I guess I'm maybe more
.* a
then a half-/breed, probably awell)the way I see it black, white, red

or pdkadot maybeA ou gonna start getting into colors, you know, well.

it takes all kinds, I guess, we might as well be proud of whence we came

Cause there's not a whole lot we can do about it, and I guess it does help

if we know a little bit-'7

L: Yeah.

I: Is there anything else, talking about you know, today's problems and

things we looked at that you'd like to comment, or say that I haven't

asked you about?

L: No I don't, I don't--,






LUM 150 A Typist: Margaret Lenkway
July 11, 1974

Page 26



I*
I: What would,-yea- what do you think if you had in your power

to do one thing to help human relations and people get a long, and not

have wars and all this stuff, what would be the one thingsthat you

think would, if you had it in your power to make it happenjwhat would you make,

try to bring about? For the betterment of people.

L: I clearly don't know.

I: Is ittcause there's so many things you could narrow it down to one,

or is it, whfat s-why ,Y y wouldn't you say?

L: Well I wouldn't even know how to go at it, I honestly say, that's the

truth.

I: I don't think I asked you 'd you come up, did you go to the, when

youj was a boy, what schools did you attend, or if you did?

L: I went to jus ,to.Pembroke grade school and High School.

I: It was all Indian then?

L: Yes.

I: You had all Indian teachers?

L: All Indian teachers. That's the way it runned you know during the

whole time I was going to school myself.

I: Did I ask you who your mother and father was?

L: Na.

I: Well let's tell who they are cause the Lowry's name goes way back.

L: Yeah, my father his name was Montgomery Lowry, and my mother her

name was -/ Lowry, which she was a M'aler before she got

married, before she married--4"

I: She was a Maynor?







LUM 150 A TYpist: Margaret LEnkway
July 11, 1974

Page 27






L: Yeah.

I: And did they live in this area right around.Pembroke, or did they

come from-- .. ,

L: Right in this area, Pembroke.

I: So you've lived, as you say you went to Pembroke Grade School that's

just a little ways over here andJPembroke High School that's just on

down the road a block or two, right?

L: Right.

I: So you've just been right around in this area and seen it grow.

What do you think about the Lumbee bank? The first, they advertise

the first ndian bank in the United States. Course they got all races doing

business there, but it's predominantly the first Indian bank named. What

do you think about that?

L: Well/I think it's nice.

I: Do you think it sorta puts the step forward for the Indians maybe?

L: Yeah, yeah, I would think so.
kas it. al 4
I: Do you think the college 1-heading fn-the part in helping the- 17,

you know to bring these stores and maybe banks and so on the fact they -

money and payroll and people bring their money and put in here.
-6;
L: Yes I really do think the college helps out with these __

I: Have you ever talked ahout-t f -i' % Y'i '.,,/\ President of

the college?

L: Yeah, I've talked to him, I've talked with him.

I: What kind of man, what kind of person is he to you?





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L: Well I always, always thought he was a fine person.

I: There are a lot of people ecitize him-- C)

L: Oh yeah, sure. But he always treated me nice. I went to school

when he was finishing high school, he got out of service and I was down

in the first year of high school and he was a finishing high school, and

he was a fine boy back then.

I: He treated people right then and all?

L: Yes, um huh. He was nice. He had got out of service, he had been

in service and got out, last year in high school and I was in first, that's

when I learn him.

I: Have you talked to him much since then, or does he talk to you when

he meets you on the street?

L: Yeah, he talks to me when I meet him in a church or on the streets,

or speaks. I pass him and he recognizes me, he'll wave at me, nice a person

can do.

I: Yeah. Welljlisten we're just about out of tape here and I want to tell

you that it's been nice and you've been very considerate to give this

interview and it will help the program a great deai) aad I just want to

say on behalf of the American Indian Studies Program and for myself z

that I appreciate very much the fact that you're willing to do this

and give your time, because I know you could be doing other things, but

I appreciate it very much, and thank you now.



-END-





Full Text

PAGE 1

LUM 150 A Interview with: Dawrie Lowry Interviewer: Marilyn Taylor Interview date: August 1 1 1973 Page 1 Typist: Margaret Lenkway July 5, 1974 I: My name is Marilyn Taylor, I'm recording for the Doris Duke Foundation, for the American Indian Ora~Studies Program1 ~oday is August 1, 1973. With me I have a ,, 5 gentleman who has graciously con~ented to an interview. Ac~ally we are in a store here and we are waiting out a thunder storm. !t's so bad we can't go out, so I asked him for an interview~ aftd -:, ge said if we could find out something to talk about, wel~he'd give ~"1/f'( -h, + me one. So we're ls8ftfttl afempt to find out all we can. Si1Jwhat's your full name? L: D~wrie Lowry. I: Would you spell that for people? People get that messedlup, you knowJ ~w t-h9y'~ all kind of ways to spell it. L: D-A-W-R-I-E. I: Lowry is-L L-0-W-R-Y. I: O.K. That's a famous name. Does that mean you are related to Henry Barry Lowery~ any? L: . WelJ_;;I might be, I don't know for sure. Could be as far as I know. I: would you tell us, sir 1 where you live now? L: I: L: I: L: I live in Pembrok=-b here. How long have you lived in Pembroke? Oh, about all my life. About ftQ years. Do you have a family? ' Are you marrie
PAGE 2

LUM 150 A Page 2 Typist: Margaret Lenkway July 5, 1974 L: Well, short base/ tr~cks. I've drove tractors and trailers a little, ~ff'II lc,,,io.J going and coming, I wouldn't be ~one;\maybe but a day and a night, not over a week. I: As I told you this had to do with American Indians. As an Indian 1 u $(4 r ct';"what group do you identify with? Would you say Lumbee, Tttsk:td:, Robeson County~r what? identifie4, if prefer? You know everybody has their own favorite way of being we have to be that way. Or what group or name would you L: Well; Lumbee, I guess, myself. I: Why, do you p~fer this one, since we do have some that's pulling out, and leaving and going other ways~and wanting other names, and so on. '\ j..J;,J, fuUtt.nt-"<11less L: Well.> it seemed like it more, ah, thisJ\1'1:1skeal mess that's more or --~~b_o __ ~\'Y'\~1-~ __ :l.__,~Ct_1_ 1 _5_ trying to get up something or another, to try to have a big us% or something. I: L: I: L: I: L: I: L: I: L: I: Can you see that they doing any good? No. To theaft)~nybody orY.,, No. Do you think they're helping the American Indian? No-You don't? I think they're hurting h..._, VA, In what way do you feel like they are hurting'} or are hurtingt U ? Well I--,,, Is it the violence, sometimes that they've been, we can't maybe prove

PAGE 3

LUM 150 A Page 3 Typist: Margaret Lenkway July 5, 1974 but they've been known, or accused of_.1--'d; L: Accused of, we11:>---•--•-----~-=~-'------'~"-----'~~-f_~-t~-+/-"'--l,_~~-'-r I: Wel:;we know that they've marched, and done several things that it's been evident we could see. Is it the way they go about doing things that your against? L: Yes. I: you've been living here now how long? L: ~(v About )Rf ~ears. I: What's some of the greatest change you've seen in Pembroke since you've been here? I know there's been a\ot \IDLI Kt,cw to think about, ....:;;_.;__--~, ~--'-----I mean several .. evan ____ ..,.,omo..,....J/"-----if you want to try to recall? L: Well~I think, the college that's a good improvement I think~ /'I I: Can you remember when it was an all Ipdian College? L: Yeah, uh huh•(affirmative). I: What was the ,feeling here in the }4hite)i,eople? So oftenJ do yolA. ~K did they want it or not, or how, what was the feeling on it? L: Well yes, would the majority, you knoWj to keep the college from J It ~t">~L,'-t being closed. Why one time I remember there wasn't any about.J..0tr"'" students, and they couldn't operate the colleg~with a number of students like that. I: Were you for the college staying here? Would you have it inte(grated rather than lofse it? L: Oh, yes, yes. I: There was a great deal af talk about the Main building over there,

PAGE 4

LUM 150 A Page 4 Typist: Margaret Lenk.way July.5, 1974 that was the college at one time~ld Main". Did you have any thought in building this, or ,__y---L: Wel:,I didn't have anything neither way to do with it. /\ I: How did you feel about it, when it was being tallted about i:/ so much, whether to save it or do away with it? L: Well I, it didn't make too much difference, but I sort'a~wish, if they could work out something to keep the building. Burou know it didn't worry me enough to start fussing,b or anything over it. I: Yeah, I see what you mean. Do you see any reason people ought to fuss like they di~ or how it happened? L: N':J really I didn't. ~ld I: Do you have any idea 01,-b you know it was borohe
PAGE 5

LUM 150 A Page 5 Typist:: Margaret Lenkway July 5, 1974 I: What else can you say you Ive noticed l\,bo-uf ~t ' --9": ? . . :-..,~v. L: WellJI reckon that's about the biggest thing~Tve noticed. I: Has the college, do you think changed the town any? L: Yes. I: What-,tJJ.t11 L: Well, like mor1or less/\the apartments and things like tha~ here in the town. I think the college helped start that. I: DQ you think it's helped bring mo~e money into the town? L: Oh, yes~ I: More things, give people more jobs......Y . L: Yes~ure, yes. A lot more jobs too. A lot of people are working out there wouldn't have a job on the campus. I: L: I: Do you have any friends or relatives tha(work for the college? Yeah, I have some out there, yes, friends I know well. Do they seemed to be pleased.I., or displeased? L: Yeah, they're all really liking their job fine. that I talk with. I: You mentioned that you haven't been in good health in. the last few years, is it anything you can tell us about or would care to comment about? 1 Caus:.t trying this is no right or wrong answer~.JOU can say on this we are just \ -H, t I r., -H,ty •rt. to get a persons feelings in~, where the-re staying and what their circumstances is today, and we'd like to know yours if you would share it with us? L: Well I sure will, I mean I've been sick. I've had several operations in the last five years. I was in Dukes Hospital, a~ wel!_,six different times. When I got sick I was took to Lumberton Hospital

PAGE 6

LUM 150 A Page 6 Typist: Margaret LEnkway July 5, 1974 I stayed in there three months~ and three weeks straight, and~~ o-v-~' half the time during the time I was there I was blanke<4'out, and they finally got me to where I couJd come to~ Ly\/~ , that there was a hurtin' in my chest and they operated on me, took X-Rays and said it was my gall bla~r, operated on me and ther said it was ::., busted in me, ~nd I stayed there then about a month and a half afterward. They brought me home and I stayed on the bed there, maybe a couple of weeks till they got me in at Duke's, aMl so and stayed~ tared me and treated me and I took fi: there. I went up there operations up I: And what was -J;he problem up ther~that you had to have so many operations? L: Well~it was something concerning my stomach inside, I don't know what all they did do. But I know they took out a third of my stomac1t with one of the operations. I: Wel~does this slow you down, or keep you, handicap you today to some degree? L: /tvw I: Well you must have been a rich man toAaffordfed all these operations? Oh yes, sure. I went in the hospital one time and I thoughfI'd never get the bill ' payed~. 7 Who helped you with, or did you have help)let me ask you that 1 how did you get these operations from financial standpoint, let me ask you, how was this managed? a L: Well~the only thing, I had one insurfnc:JBlue Shield, and the rest I been a trying to pay the best I could.

PAGE 7

,---I I LUM 150 A Page 7 Typist: Margaret Lenkway July 8, 1974 ':t . I: What's youVmain, would you say your main source of income is now? Do you have an income, or wor1:.t, or--? L: No, about the only thing I income now is a little social security, disable. I: So you had a tremendous amount of medical expense there at one time, you still have to have some---L/ ' ' L: Yes~ I: Certain medicines and medications..,.e_., 1 1 1 L: Yes, um huh. I: How are these furnished to you? Since they are quite high and I ~"hl'j:-~' know~you are not alw~ys able to afford them. L: Well, nothing only:whatI1get I have-to get it:myself, a~far as medicine(anything like that. I: Since this is an\ Indian study I'd like to ask if you.during the times you were sick and operations you had to have and so on, did you ever feel discriminated against heef:si: e the fact you are an Indian? L: No-I: You never di~+ay? L: No-I: Have you ever in any of your life~ime, of growingt 1 or going to l~{ yY\b.v-./.-:,i-, drri,1,f/,.t,;,u; ..., schogJ ,p'l:Ewgndeti@t/ t:hrou'gh a neighborhood like this? L: No, I: You no , _._,p,-,1,->c.JY'"' can't)honestly say you have never been treated in antay that was wrong 1 you felt you'd been wronged in antay? L: No, n~ -f treated just as good as a person could treat me, in and ouf of the hospital.

PAGE 8

LUM 150 A Typist: Margaret Lenkway July 8_, 1974 Page 8. I: Even when-rat about when you go to Lumbert~ over there to ~1 j) OR a.lQ off? . L:: They' s treats me.,~ them that knows me, like the ones in the y 's hospital, or if anybod~ any business over there that knows me treats me just as good as they could anyb?dy. I: I know there is some, you kno~feelings of people, feeling like p Y"~ b-\./;,W they been done wrong, lcause I've talked to them and I just0._I wondered if whether you had any feeling$ that you'f been done wrong? s0,~1 I \1v. L: No, like I s-a4danybody that ::,ws me_,tt9peaking about over in Lumberton, anybody that knows m~/\.I know the~they treat me, nobody mistreats me ove~here. 1 course you know somebody that don't know you they ain't gonna'talk and go on with you, like sombody that do know you personally and you know O,J,,, I: Wel) these things we A trying them. -to find outflyou know if a person's been treated wrong, if he feels like he's been treated wrong, or if -she feels like she's been treated wrong, because they're Indians}\we want to bring them out, and get them out in the open, you see. L: Yeah, yes, I: And this is one of the primary reasons, to get you feelings and your ~eic ~1,C!l,0 11..civ attitudes on ho~~things are today and 110w they were, and do you think things are getting better for the American Indian? L: Yes, I do. I: What do you think some of the changes that you've seen in your life time that's better for, even here we're not on a reservation like a lot

PAGE 9

LUM 150 A M Page 9 Typist: Margaret Lenkway July 8, 1976 of Indians,,{here how do you see things as better? -/.0 L: Well, I mean just more or lessvany place you go to, wh 0 you can go in if it's I: Serve som,lace wh~re they serve you can go in~ food and stuff? L: Yeah, uh huh(affirmative). d. \) + 7 L ;l,4t s '(q!,•J 4i\hlj\'.J t(\'\ l Used to not be that wai\hey wouldn't serve an Indian if they knew I: he was an Indian~ L: That's right. No, no. A lot of drug stores you couldn't even go in, .. , you could go in and buy medicine, but ehe.first sit down, you couldn't tJ"V\ sit down~ ff you got the medicine you had to get it and come righy'\out. I: How'd this make you feel? L: W~llJ it made you feel sort' a bad. -:p,,\ I I: ~ver make you feel like lighting afire-tor something? L: Well no~ I : J), r\ ''.I '+'cv,_c w wh.o +o . , , L: And the more or less I'd never go to a place-I: Did it hurt;~ ~u L: Yeah, it did. I'd never go to a place; wao:i::o, 01 he'l.!'e to go to a if "Jhcrl, o.r,y place whe'l!'e there'en,, way I could get around it. I: In other words all the places weren't like this? Like at{ Ak /rug stores weren't like this? L: No, some of them. Anywhere mostly in Robeson County I'd say ., _ft/ g_-----------=s====I: Unless you were in Pembroke, maybe? L: Yes. 1, How 'bout over in Renprings1

PAGE 10

LUM 150 A Page ~9 L: Re?\prings_,~that 's one. Typist: Margaret Lenkway July 8, 1974 I: Dve been told it's kind 1 bad over there. Do you have any experience over there? L: .... no, but I know che ____________ , but I never did go in the dru(:stores. I: h f . d ,, t. Do you ave any rien s tt,,.,, ''"11 "' i L: Yeah, yeah, oh yeah. I I: What~some of the things you've heard about in that area? L: Well, no morl or less like I saYa if you went in there you couldn't sit down, if you bought something you couldn't sit down and eat it, ymr c/'~ a drink, you couldn't sit down and drink it, you'd have to take it and go on out. I: Why do you think this was? Did they think that the Indian was~ what did they think he was? Was he going to bother them or something, why was this?f often wondered )'(: y _ make a rule like that? -lo just~sit down, why did they L: I don't know if~, I: Did they think~/ut it's not that way now, is it? L: No, no. I: Have you been to Re~prings any lately, or anybody you know ? ~• 1i I !!:!::.fl)/ 'i,,tX/! . .--. I r ... .1/,:,: nl'-;,). 'CJ,. Wt,,,-Jt,1 /fv4 ? I f / L: Yes, yes •. I: Sometimes it's hard to tell people I, being tt luit fl,~e, ~l , A:-&!king to -e littft:! g~ people mistake me and wit l .r~ '(',/ r/.. ,;f" ;.u,t J 0 white or t{(,f.f..,,.I, !t'.11! c1,•.~, or Cherakee ' white I \ __________ ,___ India1J you know. I W8l!!t ., 1 ., then they /J"lvJ1 fa<' 1 complected people as there are dark ones. And you find that a lot in

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LUM 150 A Page 11 Typist: Margaret Lenkway July 8, 1974 the Lum.bee people toK I think. But,~ I never felt it too much J: e;att5' unless, wel~I just tried to stay out of the areas~where I knew they were against Indians. L: Yes. I I: Really against it, 1 cause I sort a ___________ , cause I never did want\tget in a fight or nothing I &J ;J-rc-.1 ///!.ll!,~-. L: Yes, you could go right up here in Cl differently thfn you could in Robeson. I: Now? L:~d before, and when it wasI: How do they treat you now? L: Thyy treat you fine. I mean this-I: How did it used to be? L: Well) it always was like tha)/they I: In Scotland County they didn't L: Oh, they did, oh yeah, oh yes. I: Always done that? L: Um huh ( affirmative). give d_,1-J ( Scotland CountyAbe treated didn't have the Indian fair treatment? I: You know there's been all kind of tales and stories and things told about, just where was it the Lum.bee people come from? Do you have any opinion about that? Where you think the, where we really originated from? L: Well) I tell you the trut~ I don I t know. I: Well, if somebody asked you, I mean there's been books written about it, and people have told different stories that they've been told, and

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LUM 150 A Typist: Margaret Lenkway July 8, 1974 page 12 research and college people, scholarly people, you know researched it out and so on. I've just wondered if you've had any thoughts ori your own on it, what you've heard, and so on? L: Wel~I ain't never thought about it too much. I: Did it ever bother you-L: No, no, no. I: Don't bother you where you come from, and that kind'a stuff? L: No, no. I: Main thing I guess is where you're going, isn't it? L: Yeah, you could say it. I: I believe we're still in a thunderstorm, the lights Ilick on and off every now and then. I believe it can rain harder in Pembroke then anywhere else, or maybe I'm prejudiced but I swear it can rain down here. I guess it's 1 cause I'm over the campus sometimes and when it rains the water stands on the ground for an hour or two. L: Yeah, where's your home? C\ tv.
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LUM 150 A Typist: Margaret Lenkway July 8, 1974 Page 13 L: Wel~I jut.goes up there and comes, I mean maybe a day. I: Do you have relatives or anything up there? L: Yes, I know several from down here that lives up there. I: YiJ'il /:~i wv, You mentioned that you were, needed to be iJ~ because of your health and so on, 6iltl you're not so what do you do for past"time? able to hold on~o a full-time job, l)J•/tt, I"D__oa-lt you get bored and stuff like V that, don't you have a hobby or something to do to keep the time from "7 getting on your nerves too much and bothering you. L: No, not too much of nothing~. 1: L: I: What's one of the main things you do? 1 ntU•'-' Wel.:SI just peddle,Anothing particularly. What are you going to ,p44Llt iltrtO j idea so I can~, give me some L: Wel1,you know maybe, you know at home I might try and work a little bit with the garden or something like that, you know. I: But you do, you could well stay busy doing something, something which is not too strenuous? L: Yeah, when I feel like it, when I don't feel too weak or anything. I: Wel~is there some medicine or anything you can take to correct your , ., "" '7 health ;i. t you--,. , L: Yft I f 1 ({•-;ti to tak~hedicine 3 for tha~ ever-f3.ay. Well I've got sugar and I have I: I {Is this ---'{'-L:-'""'"1--'-t/i .... ,c..,---------something you take by mouth, or yo..,,,-,u \..L: Shots. I: Do you give yourself the shots? L: Yes.

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LUM 150 A Page 14 I: Do you find thi~others you? Typist: Margaret Lenkway July 9, 1974 Some people said when they first started it, I talked to diabetic~ an~ so on, ,r __ ,_,_' _ _,_ ______ 3that when they first have to 5ive th?-selves shots it bothers them, but afterwards they get used to it. Do you ever get used to it? L: Well it never didn't bother me because when I was in the hospital > they give me so many shots I was usen' toward ,,. :fue.~e, it~ but probably somebody I -I,' MV, 1 like you say hadn't never been bothered ----'-'(1"-'-A ___ giv,-n'A taktn 1 a lot of shots or something wh>; I know it went hard with them to start, but me) I was used ~, I: Well)did you have a certain time ever/day that you used to give them, or just whenf'kver you think of it? V C/ L: EveryJ--:' every mornings before I eats breakfast I have to take one, and at supper time I have to ~ake another. I have to take two a day. Different units, you know. I: Do you live with some relatives? L: I live with my sister. I: With you sister. I guess she helps out with the cooking and stuff like that? L: Oh yes. I: You all sorta.t:hare things. L: Ada. Ada. I: Ada Lowry? L: Yes. I: Does she work at a (> L: No. 1 II. res~uran7. And what's her name? or something around here? I: Does she work outside the home anywhere? L: No.

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LUM 150 A Typist: Margaret Lenkway July 9, 1974 Page 15 I: Seems like I heard the name before. L: I/ That's the only thing she do is keep her girls babY_/. boy. girl's baby. I: L: I: L: I: L: Babysits, sorta. Yeah. Wel) what's her daughter's name? Ida Bell. Ida Bell Lowry? Yeah. I: She works? Where does she work? Her h ~I ...n.L: Down ~u.t~!V'-.c':a:::-c....J...--~--===------==~ don't know the name of it, down here cv\ the edge of town, a trailer park, where they build trailer homes. b h . O' I: Welljit must e a ous1.ng-,,, L: ft~td--, t'f l~, tJ2,{1~, 1 ' I I: I know where you're talking about, but I can't think of the name of it, but it's right new, they haven't -L: That's right. I: That's not Mr. Oxidine? o~\umbee Trailer Courti or something like that? L: No, n~ y,e,:r/ Lumbee Courtl\~at's out toward Union Gii~ppal~ out in the &country #couple a miles, two or three miles out, you just go here on the edge of town down here. I: Oh yeah, as you're going towards Lumberton. L: That's right. I: I know what you're talking about now. about being in the past, about people getting upset, you know, and l,Wt' talking about treating Indian~ and things like that. What do you think is the

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LUM 150 A Typist: Margaret Lenkway July 9, 1974 Page 16 main reason for this? Is it just people like to fight-{, or just like to get something started~r~ L: Well to my opinion they just some of them likes to get something ,.:) started. I: Is this ho.rlktthl sorta\p~yirrg, or what is it? L: Yeah, that's all, the-way I look at it. Yes. I: Does he get sort/ of a thrill out of i~ or what? L: Wel:J it seems that way to me. I: Would you join with the Tusca~ora froup? I L: No 11lmil1:!. \),o.. a. vv,, I: You don't have any reason to? t: I: They seem to offer somea, you know a better deal, and I was wondering, I usually this question. If I'm talking to a Tusca~ora (ask him why 0 he joined the Tusca~ora, you know, if it was a better deal. ? L: Is that right. ;'tr() f I: But, they usuall;Pot some reason, everybody 5 got a reaso~you know, their reason anywa.;6 of thin~ _!?ut I always J'lhether it makes senle to respect everybody else's anybo~y else,\his kind opinion , f J1tCt?1l t/()11..J ___ ,~_~_~__.__l~i2--=----c..""-_~u~f;-:~•~•t-___ ~_, don't have to agree with them but you can I -Irespect that he's got a right. Um-,~s there anybody else I haven't talked about, or something you'd like to talk about that I hadn't mentioned, things that's happening today? I don't believe we got into politics. Are you interested in that any?

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LUM 150 A Page 17 Typist: Margaret LEnkway July 9, 1974 L: That's something I neverid have nothin' to do with. I: Do you vote? L: Take up my time. Yeah, I vote. I: What are yo':) a Democrat or Republican? L: Well I voted a Democrat. f/' r~ltf: I:A What about the governor, Holshouser? Did you go a long with him? Now he was, I believe he was a Republican on the stateA lic.-kef: L: No I don't think, n':) I didn't. I: You didn't? L: Um uh~. (~Ja.fi ~l J. I: I believe he came down a nli Ill~; l-t cl i h . ' " ' t . f',r l/ campa gn ere :i.a-a, n(i .tW f ti I 1,. -~ L: I don't know. He might have. several times. Started his I was told. I: I believe he did, if I'm not mistaken, I read it somewhere. What about, what church do you go to? Do you go to church any? L: Yeah, I go to church, but I don't have no certain one, I goes around/ like 1 1 say and visit. I: Do you? L: Yeah, more or less. I: well whatiyouN. pick of all of them if you had to settle down / J to one, so to speak? L: Wel~ that'd be hard. I meanI: Be hard to say? L: Yeah. I: What's the important know they have different thing( /a you think of a denomination; and ,,, J p :;;.beliefs thatYno you believe in G~ you

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LUM 150 A Page 18 L: Yeah, sure. Yes. Typist: Margaret Lenkway July 9, 1974 I: Do you believe he was the creator of all things~ unt\tr +he St.-o, L: Yes. I: L: I: L: Do you believe in prayer? Yes. .• J hMl (l, ,1, .l Do you exercise a--trm:1 y prayer life? Yes. I: What are some of the things you might would pray for\/ that's not getting too personal? .for L: I pray for, well I, I thank the lord ?\_living, I pray for that, maybe some-I: L: I: Do you enjoy living? Ye_s, I does, yes I does. J A person sometimes as you say is not in good health, have you ever seen a time when you would have welcomed death? L: I reckon I've been mighty sick, hurt, I've hurt, burnt, and you call it weak, and anything you might call I've been_.,. ______ __,i~ I've "been--' S~-'1 as bad a shape as any man living and I never thought about, like some people you know like shoot;n' theirselk, or doing theirseliTee some harm like that. I: Or asking the doctor to give you a shot to put you out of your, to put you out of your misery so to speak. A lot of people will do this. L: Well I've asked them, when I've had my mind to ask them, maybe a nurse sorf-ccould she give me a shot to ~e ease me off, you know. I: But not one that would just put you on out of the, put you to sleep-a lnti c 1 Slit! '/fv 1 crJI ,tT ?

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LUM 150 A Page 19 Ir i,. o. i I Typist: Margaret Lenkway July 9, 1974 /: i• t11cttl 1 L: ) I 've asked ti mostlyJ for pain like,Arelease ~m"-'+y----1P~e~.\~V\----'7';Clc:-----'x~--I: You hadn't ever seen a time when you thought you'd be better off dead? L: No, no. I've always-I: -t . Even in your worsf suffering? L: No, I always wanted to help it, I never thought about dying, I mean that I'd rather be dead, or something like that. t: A lot of times people when they are in pain think these things. L: Oh, yes. \ A lot of time~f if somethings bothering somebody that's when they do these things, but it didn't never but cross my mind, that I was wanting to try and get help. I: Did you find it in times like this that you'd pray? L: Oh, yes, ye5 when you hurtin' bad enough, or something you'll pray and think, and ask somebody else to pray for you that you know that's }J1,lt\ living a good Christian life. I: You mean you believe in the power of prayer? L: Yes. Yes. I; Yet you don't say that yoJrtconnected with any particular denomination? L: No. I: It's just that you're in a relationship, just you and G~d. L: That's right. I: Do you think we have a loving Gfd? Or, sometimes it seems like his _,. -:;... judgement is harsh, at times have you ever felt this way? L: No, I haven't. I: Do you think he's al~ogether a loving G~d? -....) t\

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LUM 150 A Page 20 L: Yes. Typist: Margaret Lenkway July 9, 1974 I: Bu1:t with and you've had things Mr. LowrY, in your life that's been hard to deal hard for you to live with~ L: Yes. I: And you stilLmaintain that he's a loving cfd? L: Yes. He, he'll do like, I feel like he'll do, put these things on you if you ain't living right to see if you'll make a change. I: Wel:Sdo you think some of 0 these, the things, the worst things maybe like healthwise and pain and so on, do you feel,~ave they made a change in your life? L: Yes. I: Brought about a change? L: Oh, yes, yes. I: I Wc't~ ~"t L: For the better. You take me I used, I wasn't neves didn I tJ In what way? For the better? in no trouble, never has been arrested, or bothered wha6ever_ with no law, nothing. But still on Sunday morning I went some other way besides the church, I didn't have church on my mind too much. Did you drink~ anything like that? Well~I never wasn't bad for drinking. I: L: I: Just a little bit a1}.one? L: Yeall_jmaybe with somebody going out and being socia1f\like, but far as the hard drunk...! klt \\ my life. , no. Never wasn't drunk, say drunk in I: Can't remember , ever_.being 'what you call drunk?

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LUM 150 A Page 21 L: No. Typist: Margaret Lenkway July 9, 1974 I: :ou didn't know what was happening? L: No. I: Do you think then that you've made a better person by having ~uffere46" suffered the way you have? L: Yes, yes. I: And you don't resent it, or think that maybe G;d~been hard on you as a person? L: No, no I really don't, I wouldn't say that. He put, like I feel like what was on me, ge, it was for my good, ~e put it on me for my good. I: But wasn't there a time, sometime or another that you felt like et .ton Po.1.•( 'sJ.J. maybe you'~ being V put more on you thfn you could b~? 1ttdyou ever felt that at times? L: No, no I haven't. I: Your faith never wavered in the least? L: No. I: That's hard to understan~ L: Yeah-I: ----i'"X..,_ __ ]3eu~~l-~ __ ______ mt.rr.e aFe problems I've never had any'' thing to contend with to that eEtent of, you know that you have, but sometimes I get to feeling that maybe it's just a little bit more tbfn ~l I caa ~Maybe I need to have more faith? You reckon that's the problem, o~hat is felt this way, and it1 wiat would you think would be with people that mayb~ri\e~ or fussed a little bit the way life had dealt the~ and so on? L: Wel:,>it's hard for me to say.

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LUM 150 A Typist: Margaret Lenk.way July 9, 1974 Page 22 I: Wel,:S you've got an opinion, you got an opinion. You think and~ you know you don't have to come out and you know get it righ~ because J there's really no right or wrong answer, but you sort of speculate and think a little bit about it. L: People have different opinions about things, I mean-I: Yeah, but what do you think1 That's what I want your opinion/ 1 cause we do have different ones and I want yours. L: Well I know, I don't think, I don't think that the Lord had put more on ~'l a person then it could b-&l;e, I mean if ge, got the power, I mean ye ain't gonna put the one that htcJt, you can~, if it's l)is wfll. That's the way I feel, you know, like I say'everybody ,;, ain't a:'1 ike, some __ ,_,_, ____ .,....,.. ____ , we' re talking about the church~" v )(. 1'\ ---t7 I: Excuse me, I'm sorry, you have to get closer, if you get too far away I lo/se your voice. L: There some people, you know, denominations I'd sa~like if you and me would go out tonight we'd get, have us a party I'd say more or less, drink, and turn around tomorrow we could get forgiveness for, well you 0-(;.e,L for some people,that's why I say got different ... eeeooasee. Aileast I: 1]Ll IAfa,, I /!:, go ahead and do it because you goigg to get forgiven anyway. L: Yeah, yeah. ' ,s I: The only thing about that I get scared of,1 I mighr ave to, something happened I'd get killed right in the middle of it, and I might not have time to get forgiven, and then where would I end you think about it I guess there is such a thing as a death bed sort of a salvation I maybe, if a man 5 ~r uemeao dying of it could be saved if he had

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LUM 150 A Typist: Margaret Lenkway July 11, 1974 Page 23 time to ask for.it. Or do you believe that way? L: Yeah, yeah, I've heard people, I think so if a person got time to/,,. I: You know religion means, some denominations maintain you got to be \ Japtised and you got to go through h \~ and you got to do this and that kind of thing, and you got to go through this book and learn what ~.I., ,.c.t_v, .... it says in here, and~ so many verses, and so on, things like thiS(v~el~a man ain't got time to do all 7 you know different ()JiJ that.{ he' s dying and he asks the Jard to save ;;,, him, you think he, he can be saved? In I other words, deatr()>ef• salvation, ~:,,,I . \/(51,\ I guess ~1ft call it for lack of a better word? L: Yes, I feel like it if he has time enough to give and he's got the faith, the faith in the Lord, he can be saved. I Cause that's what it takes. You got to have the faith. I: Mr. Lowry, what do you think would help the Indian people more 0. then anything else? I mean to have a better life and to have a better I outlook. Now this~ like research, you kno~ people in the college and alfhey go around and make researches and they take studies, and so on, ati'cfthey found out that there's many Indian people~ drinking themselves ...-;::.., I to deat~ thats got high intelligence, I mean good brains, you kno'j could use them and ~be a blessing to the people for better thingsa:, lyl, but they drinking .,.,. theirselves to death, and some of thems, theres a high ,~ :tf'5 rate of suicide, they go ouSfand kill theirselves. l:rJB... sorta depressing to talk about these things, but it's, again it's apart of the harsh realities, just like your operation is, but we have to live with and ft face. What it might be do you~ in your opinion think would, it maybe just one t:ing, several things, that could help the Indian people more thfn

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LUM 150 A Typist: Margaret Lenkway July 11,1974 Page 24 anything else? Maybe you never thought about it, but__)!/,,, L: N~ I really ain I t. I: You, think about it, I mean if you want to take a minute and see what you think would help. It might not be no great big thing, I mean you know V sometimes it's the small things that...J-\,, L: Yeah, but I ain I t never really give it a thought U~, q I: Are you proud to be an Indian? L: Yeah, I really is, it don't worry me. I: Wel that's the way it ought to be, but you know some people not--9-:,. You wouldn't change nothing else? You wouldn't change to be nothing else, would you? L: No, I don't reckon but I mean J/ 111 I: I know what you mean, you wouldn't _ ___;:b~o~a~s~t:;_ ____ , but you're proud to be what you are. L: Yeah, yeah, sure. I: L: Yeah, that's the way it ought to be. I look at it this a way, ,, ;-i ___ ....._ _______ _ I' . ,A 1' J talkJ\about y{ Indian or r I ' ite, if I was Jfuite and you didn t want me ____ '_' _______ .,,;,.,,;_~ __ _ tv"A this is a~lot of people's trouble, ~:d if I was JfuiteJ,b you didn't want me, I mean you knew both of us and you didn't want me, you wouldn't have me. Al0ight if I'm an. Indian ad you were 'OOhite and we meet and you I ',. .. --'\ want me, aif_:ight we boths gets together. Now that's the way I look alf the thing. I: It has to be a mutual, both people~,, L: Yeah, both people.

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Lum 150 A Page 25 Typist: Margaret Lenkway July 11, 1974 I: In other words you don't Put it on a race basis? I L: No, no no. I: Just people to people, just like you say you might not like somebody but it might not be because of thei~raceJe9 L: I: L: Ye~ that's right, that's right. Yeah I see what you mean. > Yeah, 1 cause we got our own race of people, and in the Indian race I don't like, I don't approve with somesedY? 5,r--i-,-.'-t, c~~t((,.tt-~ t 1 ..U.J.,c..t 'r<,, { I: But it's not because~ Indian, it's just the way they act. tt,,t). ,, L: No, no l:he;r act, yea~and the way they are, that's right. I See.. wlwt yw''(t.. ~\M, 1 •':J. rl 1tr I:/\ Well I guess, I 1 m sort;i\ a half-breed myself, that 1 s kind~ a bad word but I've learned to live with it, and accept iv.1you might as well ~ause C1/;.;, / there's nothing I can do about it. L: Say you are half? I: ( -IJ.c Yeah, my Mother's English, my Daddy~ ~._,.Cherokee and I've got some other stuff, Dutch and Irish and all this@I guess I'm maybe more ... then a half ... /bre~d, probably a,fi wel~ the way I see it black, white, red or pdkadot maybe/\~ou gonna start getting into colors, you know. well/ it takes all kinds, I guess, we might as well be proud of whence we came •cause there's not a whole lot we can do about it, and I guess it does help if we know a little bit_...Q/ . L: Yeah. I: Is there anything else, talking abou~ you know, today's problems and things we looked at that you'd like to comment, or say that I haven't asked you about? L: a./ No I don't, I don't-,

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LUM 150 A Page 26 .,. Typist: Margaret Lenkway July 11, 1974 I: What wou] d, yeu-, what do you think if you had in your power to help human relations and people .I\ and to do one thing get a long, '-' have wars and all this stuff, what would be the one thing3that you I not think would, if you had it in your power to make it happen~what would try to.bring about? For the betterment of people. L: I clearly don't know. , '\ you make, I: Is itlcause there's so many things you coulp~ narrow it down to one, or is it, what'~ why _____ x~,'--,;,v __ wouldn't you say? ' _,, ---~--~_:__ _ _.L: Wel:,I wouldn't even know how to go at it, I honestly say, that's the truth. \.J{,J,."1\ I: I don!t think I asked you
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LUM 150 A Page 27 L: Yeah. TYpist: Margaret LEnkway July 11, 1974 v., I: And did they live in this are~ right axound Pembroke, or did they come from-_.Y. •, -;; L: Right in this area, Pembroke. I: So you've lived, as you say you went to Pembroke Grade School that's ..fft.~---just a little ways over here andAPembroke High School that's just on down the road a block or two, right? L: Right. I: So you've just been right around in this area and seen it grow. What do you think about the Lumbee bank? the first!ndian bank in the United States. business there, but it's predominantly the do you think about that?' L: Well/ I think it's nice. The first, they advertise 1 course they got all races first Indian bank named. doing What I: Do you think it sorta(""puts the step forward for the Indians maybe? L: I: Yeah, yeah, I would think so. k.a~ ~-cd a ~\1/ Do you think the college iseading'""in-the part in helping the-/-,..,, ~,,. . J you knoo/to bring these stores and maybe banks and so onA the fact they money and payroll.LA and people bring their money and put in here. (., L: Yes I really do think the college helps out with these , ' i ___ -_--J,...r-,_ y-,-r-,:-,Have you ever ta11ted ab,Qu,tl'nv ,~ ,-,\ -,\:•~.{ l)J!<, tr,/\ President of --'-----------'------'----~------'-I I: the college? L: Yeah, I've talked to him, I've talked with him. I: What kind of man, what kind of person is he to you?

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LUM 150 A Typist: Margaret LenkW!Y July 11, 1974 Page 28 L: Well I always, always thought he was a fine person . ; , ",, 1,_. 1 "L ,.I: '' : .• -. . . a_...,,. There are a lot of people ~itxze him-..<.~) L: Oh yeah, sure. But he always treated me nice. I went to school.) when he was finishing high school, he got out of service and I was down in the first year of high school and he was a finishing high school, and he was a fine boy back then. I: He treated people right then and all? L: Yes, um huh. He was nice. He had got out of service, he had been in service and got out, last year in high school and I was in first, that's when I learn him. I: Have you talked to him much since then, or does he talk to you when he meets you on the street? L: Yeah, he talks to me when I meet him in a church or on the street:,, or speaks. I pass him and he recognizes me, he'll wave at me, nice a person can do. I: Yeah. WellJlisten we're just about out of tape here and I want to tell .5 you that it's been nice and you've been very confiderate to give this interview and it will help the program a great dea~)affd. I just want to say on behalf of the American Indian Studies Program and for mY.tself { _ that I appreciate very much the fact that you're willing to do thi~ and give your time, because I know you could be doing other things, but I appreciate it very much, and thank you now. -END