Title: Interview with Omalene Locklear Steen
Full Citation
Permanent Link: http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00007134/00001
 Material Information
Title: Interview with Omalene Locklear Steen
Physical Description: Book
Language: English
Spatial Coverage: Lumbee County (Fla.)
Funding: This text has been transcribed from an audio or video oral history. Digitization was funded by a gift from Caleb J. and Michele B. Grimes.
 Record Information
Bibliographic ID: UF00007134
Volume ID: VID00001
Source Institution: Samuel Proctor Oral History Program, Department of History, University of Florida
Holding Location: This interview is part of the 'Lumbee County' collection of interviews held by the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program of the Department of History at the University of Florida
Rights Management: All rights reserved by the source institution and holding location.
Resource Identifier: LUM 147

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Full Text


This Oral History is copyrighted by the Interviewee
and the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program on
behalf of the Board of Trustees of the University of

Copyright, 2005, University of Florida.
All rights, reserved.

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instruction, and private study under the provisions
of Fair Use. Fair Use is a provision of United States
Copyright Law (United States Code, Title 17, section
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Fair use limts the amount of material that may be

For all other permissions and requests, contact the
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LUM 147A
Taylor interview
Marlene Locklear

Side 1. 1

T: My name is Marilyn Taylor. I'm recording for the Doris Duke

Foundation under the auspices of the University of Florida for

the American Indian Oral STudies Program. Today is August 2,

1973. Today I'm in Woods Department Store and with me is an

employee who works here. I'd like to say that it's been very

gratifying the cooperation we've had from these girls' supervisor

who has made it possible for them to give an interview on

company time.so to speak or, if they want to, or on their time

either way. But he's been most cooperative and so have the

girls. I just wanted to mention that in this opening. Would

you tell us your full name please, and spell if for the

benefit of our readers and listeners?

S: Yes, ma'am, it's Omalene;lLocklear Steen. O-m-a-l-e-n-e. Last

name is S-t-e-e-n.

T: Steen is a name that you don't hear too much around here. Did

you marry somebody that's local or did you, or is it someone out

of the area?

S: Well, his father is out of the area. His father is a white man.

T: Um, huh, and what, is he part white or part ...?

S: He's part white and part-Indian.

T: Well, then I can sare that feeling. Or that, rather that, I guess

it's a being more than a feeling sometimes. 'Cause my father

LUM 147A


is part Cherokee, whereas my mother is-lndian. What part of A the

country does he come from? *Did you meet him here in Pembroke?

S: Yes, ma'am, I met him here in Pembroke, but his father's from

Hamlin, North Carolina.

T: How many children do you have?

S: We have two. We have a son, ten, and a daughter, eight.

T: And give us their names. I think names are interesting.

S: Mauy Linda Steen and Clisby R. Locklear. I had the little boy

before I'd gotten married.

T: I see. I have run into that sometimes too. The difference in the

kids and the names. And they all say, well, my momma got

married, but I didn't. It amazes me the way children explain things.

You have two children. Let's see. Do both of them in school?

S: Yes, ma'am.

T: How do you feel about the education :i system here in Pembroke? DO

you think it's getting the job, or is it educating our children?

And tell me the schools that your children are atteVing.

S: They attend the grade school. It's not the kids,I don't think,

the majority of the time. It's the teachers Most of them they're

there for the dollar. That's it. They don't have no interest

in the kids whatsoever.

T: Do you ... what do you think as a parent, just one parent, you

could do about it? I mean, are you willing to get involved to

do something with other parents? What could you do perhaps?

S: Well, right at the present I don't know, but, for example, I helA

LUM 147A


my daughter back into the second grade another year. And it's be-

cause she wasn't, to me she wasn't ready to go on.

T: In other words, you're saying the teacher promoted her, but you

flet ...

S: She would have.

T: Yeah.

S: ... but I wouldn't let her.

T: Because you didn't feel she ...

S: She was not ready to go on. And if they don't get it in the lower

grades like first, second, or third, they keep passing them, it's

no good. They'll never get it.

T: It's arsocial promotion, in other words, and they don't really ...

S: They just push them on, send them on, get them out of the way

so they won't have them next year.

T: And don't have the tax dollar so the kids ... I agree. They're ...

what do you think about ... do you think teachers, is it their

training? I know that we have, you knew, this university here that

... a great deal, many teachers come out. Is it teacher training

or is it when they go out on the job they get so disappointed with

it or what? As a parent, from what you have observed ...

S: Well, from my standpoint I think it's that they just lose interest;

in the child, you know, in their work. You know.

T: Yes.

S: Whereas if they would, you know, show a little interest in the child

like kind of encouraging it to go on, you know, and do things. I

LUM 147A


think the child would catch on eventually and go ahead.

T: Um, huh. Well, I agree. They certainly need a pat on the back,

all of us do-every now and then or we'll just kind of lax off.

D: And, too, I think another thing. There be too many kids sometime

in one classroom for one teacher.

T: Un, huh.

S: You know,,she can't take up the time with the kids like she should

T: Overcrowded classrooms. Well, this could maybe, do you think

cuase the teacher sometimes to lose interest when she feels that

she's spread so thin?

S: Right.

T: ... and can't .... I'm not surepwhat means would you go, maybe

organizing the parents do we not have an organization like

that for parents who are interested in their children and ; wanting

better education that you know of at this frll ?

S: No. It's the parents, I think, like the mothers, you know, would
get together, you know, and try and do something abouti,you know.

T: And meet with maybe the teachers or something.

S: Right.

T: I1 De they have parent-teacher meetings over here? I know some

schools they do but I don't ...

S: I think they do. I'm not sure.

T: I heard some say if they did it wasn't very well attended.

S: There you go.

T: So it might, that might be \_6 '"

LUM 147A


T: You've been working in Woods now, and I know-you've worked other

places because I've seen you around town. How long have you

been employed here at Woods?

S: Since March of '73.

T: March of '73.

S: Um, huh.

T: And where did you work before that?

S: Little Giant in Pembroke and also in Lumberton.

T: The Little Giant, that is sort of a chain grocery store.

S: Right.

T: I guess they : have it, I'm not sure they have it in every area,

but I ... % Qli go to Florida sometimes, you know, things

we take for granted, other people wonder what in the world are

they talking about, you know? So that's ... the Little Giant

gorcery store is sort of a convenience store, I guess. What made

you change and decide and come with Woods?

S: Well, my very first reason was I had too much responsibility.

Alot of times I'd go work at seven and work till eleven at night.

T: Those were long hours. With a family?

S: With a family, too.

T: Well, you just didn't hardly have time for yourself at all.

S: Right- See, I'd have to open the store at seven. Well, I'd

have to drive all the way to Lumberton. And it was just a rat

race all the time.

T: I can see.

LUM 147A


T: Well, did you, did your husband pitch in and help with the

housework or anything?

S: No, ma'am.

T: He's not one of these that sees anything that needs to be done?

Are the children old enough to help?

S: If I just, you know, stand behind 'em they'll pick up their clothes

you know, and do little things like that for me. Every once in

a while I let them wash the dishes, you know.

T: Well, every little bit does help, I can see. You're much happier

here because you live in Pembroke do you not?

S: Yes, ma'am.

T: And you feel ...Now in working those long hours were you paid

overtime in all this?

S: Yes, the pay was real good,

T: Um, huh.

S: But in the long run it's not worth it.

T: It's not worth 'the wear and tear on the nerves and all the other

things that you have to think about. Other than you don't

see your family either much, do you, at times?

S: Right.
T: How do you like working for Mr. / ? He's an Indian manager

here. You know, a lot of people think that Indians who are in

positions of authority, when they get ready to tell you something,

they're sort of harsh and get on the warpath so to speak; there's

LUM 147A


been alot pf propaganda about that. How do you find him as a

boss man?

S: For me to say for him hisself he is as fine a man who ever

lived. He treats one just as he treats us all. If he's

got something to tell us, he tells us in a nice way. He don't, you

know, like well, you got to do this or you've got to do that.

We know we have it to do. He tells us. We go ahead and we do it.

T: Do you think that he ... would you class him as a man who has

leadership qualities, able to lead people you know, and wanting to

do ...

S: Yes, ma'am.

T: ... do things. Have you ever known him, seen him in a mo-

ment of anger?

S: No, ma'am.

T: Never?

S: Never. Never.

T: Have you ever wondered what is he like to see him angry?

S: Yes, ma'am.

T: He must probably all of us they say have some kind of temper,

but maybe he's just one of those people who know when and how to

control it.

S: He seems to be the same thing, you know, every time you see

him, he's in a nice mood. He always speaks to you, you know.

T: I don't think we got established what, in this instance we

LUM 147A


are on an Indian study we have to get you to get race conscious

in the sense that we like to identify, uh, what race do you

identify with?

S: Indian.

T: And would you class yourself as Lumbee, Tuscaroora, or what?

SRobeson County Indian or ... we like when we say American In-
that .
dian / encompasses many tribes and many groups I

find that they're.coming in from all, you know, all places so

we don't assume that even though I know it we have to get it

on tape, you know.

S: Well, I'm just me. I'm an Indian. What kind I can't say.

T: You don't classify as Lumbee or what... or don't prefer ...

S: Well, that would be as close as I know, you know.

T: In other words, you'd rather ... if you had to be identified

... identification's sake, say, you'd say Lumbee rather than


S: Yes, ma'am. e k(4A rc

T: What do you think about this band or this group that's pulled

out, a small segment,too. When you read it in the newspapers

I think it's blown up and sounds like maybe the whole town or

the whole county down here has gone on the warpath and people

get all, you know, scared, this kind of thing. But it is a

small group of people that pulled away from what, what they've

been going by is Lumbee mostly ...?

S: Right.

LUM Y 147A


T: How do you feel about it? Do you think they ... I mean, per-

sonally speaking you know, ...

S: I think what they're doing may be right, but the way they're

doing it is the wrong wrong way. There's a right way and a

wrong way to do anything. And they're doing it the wrong, wrong


T: Okay. Now we know, you know, I know the way and you know the. way

they're doing it, but again for the benefit of those that

don't know exactly what we're talking about, what do you mean

by the wrong way? Describe some of the ways that they're

/i La the things they're doing.

S: Well, just.Jlike for instance the night up at the college when

Old Main burnt. To me that as stupidity. That was ignorance.

T: Do you feel they had a part in causing it to burn?

S: I don't know but they had no business out there dancing around aIz4

"I * O I'a h nd all this crap.

T: Oh, I wasn't aware of that. While the building was burning they

were doing that?

S: Well, see, they had put it out. It was on a Sunday night and

the building was still smoking. There was a bunch of them out

there beating drums and marching and a whooping and a hollering.

T: Well, I didn't hear about it till the next day. I don't know

why. Till it had been put out. And I live right near there.

But I didn't hear that. I don't know. I must have really

been sleeping that night. Could have been out of town part of

LUM 147A


the day. What did this say to you? ... just showing them-

selves or what, what reason do you think they did this?

S: Well, they thought they were doing something big. They thought

they were saving Old Main, which Old Main had already


T: Did they seem to think it was a victory celebration or what?

S: I don't know what they thought it was. But to me it was wrong.

T: Yeah. What in your mind everybody has an opinion, I guess it's

all we can have really because it's just a big question mark,

I don't think anything officially has ever been established, what

do you think, or who, or what group do you think it was involved

in the burning of Old Main? If you have, you know, if you have

an opinion, you probably, I guess, A/,i
wonder why in the world would anybody want to do that and,

you know, you come up with some, some reason within your

mind true or otherwise, but it's your opinion that we want

you see. So it's not, can't be a right or wrong answer ...

S: I hadn't- got the slightest idea.

T: In other words it's just a big question ...

S: It's just a big question, and I can't answer it.

T: Well, I think that's the general feeling of everybody. I know

I think about well, why would an Indian do it after we fought

so hard to try and keep it and then ...

S: Right. Well, what reason would a white man have to do it?

He wouldn't have any whatsoever.

LUM 147A


T: That's right. It seemed to be ... someone said they thought

that if an Indian or maybe even a white man burned it or had

some part in it that they was probably paid .a good price.

S: They had to be...

T: Something like that could have been

S: ... if it was.
there are
T: We speculate on it, but you really don't know. We know / such

S things as arsons, that people just like to see fire and ...

S: Right.

T: It's hard to ... I don't think the police even if they had any

information, they're certainly keeping it secret. Did you

feel that the building was worth saving? Did you want to see

it '* down?

S: No, ma'am, it would have been nice if Old Main could have been

saved, but the condition that building was in there's no way

he could have been saved.

T: In other words you don't think it's worth all the bother and the

trouble,people getting so hot and so on, and the money tha it's

going to take to restore it ...?

S: It would have been nice, but, you know, if they could have built

one aIC just like it, you know. But why should they save

that one in the shape it was in? I mean, I'd like to see one

just like it there, you know what I mean.

T: In other words, just tear it down and rebuild it the same style?

S: Right, right.



S: But the way it was ... termites had eat it, it was rotted. How

could you wave something like that?

T: Um, huh, I understand what you're ....it's more expensive, I guess

probably, than it would be to b i d. it from the very

beginning. So long as it k looked the same.

S: Well, they'd a had to torn it down anyway to rebuild it 'cause

they couldn't, they might could have saved the front part but

.that would have probably been all.

T: No-aoubt: Maybe use some of the bricks, I think they'd use old

bricks and all.

S: Yeah.

T: How do you feel as a woman, you know, women's lib is on the

scene now. Do you feel as a woman you're being, and particularly

an Indian ; woman, that, have you ever felt discrimination since

you've, have you lived here all your life?

S: Yes, ma'am.

T: Andyou went to school,:where did you go to school?

S: At Pembroke High.

T: In.your experience in growing up, we'd like to get these things,

you know, out in the open, how people, you know, really feel.

Sometimes we bury them, and I can see it's not always good to

dwell on them, but it's good for people to know how other

people feel about it, if they was hurt or what was ... can you

remenmer any time during your growing up when you felt you were

discriminated against? First of all maybe because you were

LUM 147 A


an Indian or maybe if you went out of the area say, Lumberton

or somewhere, or Red Springs 4hAI OC-( anywhere?

S: No, ma'am.

T: You never felt any discrimination whatsoever?

S: Not that I remember.

T: Have you ever felt any recently, even today?

S: Um, huh. (no.)

T: Cu{p C(-CeCA ).

S: I'm a type of person like this. I try to treat the other person

regardless whether he's white, black or brown, as I would have

them treating me, you know?

T: Um, huh.

S: Just like if one walks in the store I'll say, well, good morning,

you know? I don't care who he is or where he comes from. But

I'll be nice to anybody as long as they be nice to me. You


T: give and take in other words.

S: Right. Well, people ought to stop and think, God could have

made us white or God could have made us black. We're all

equal in his eyesight.

T: That's right. Well, I've often said people who get so up in

arms about what kind of blood we got in us, be it red or black

or white or whatever, that this woman said, she says, it don't

matter what you are, you still got red blood.

T: But there's not much good to get upset about it 'cause there's

LUM 147A


not much you can do about it.

S: Sure is not.

T: I think, do you feel proud to be an Indian?

S: Yes, ma'am.

T: ... couldn't help from, you know, there might have been a time

when, do you think in your growing up, uh, there might have

been a time when you wouldn't have said that as readily, do

you think?

S: Uh, huh. (no.)

T: You've always felt proud to ... .

S: I've always flet proud to be an Indian. And always will.

T: Well, that's great. I know some people have felt that it's, they've

been discriminated against because they are Indian and maybe\his

is why you have this bright, shiny smile all the time. When you

come in you can tell a person's attitude sometimes by the, you

know, just their countenance, the way they look. How do you

feel about : l your children, do r you feel they get fair treat-

ment in school since, ... excuse me, they're integrated with

the different races?

S: As long, I don't care if they're in a classroom with white,

black, or whathaveyou, as long as they're, you know, treated

equal. You know, don't treat, let's say the white child better

than the Indian child, or the Indian child better ... they all

should be treated equal. You know, the same opportunities and


LUM 147 A


T: Were your children young enough when integration came along,

does it bother them much? Do you remember anything they said

about ...

S: They didn't ...

T: ... a black child, maybe or a white child or something.

S: They didn't pay it any mind. They were too young.

T: I think they'd take it if parents sometimes would stand back

out of the way. They could handle :it a lot better than we


S: Yes, ma'am. That's right.

T: 'Cause they don't ... after while don't see it like we do some-

times, or make as much out of it. Let's see, some of the laws

that's in the making now, abortion, for one, it's been legalized

in some states. I don't think it's been How

would you feel about this person as a woman? Do you think

abortion ought to be legalized?

S: No, ma'am. I look at it this way. If a girl can get out and

get a baby, she can have it and look after it. If she has

an abortion if she gets rid of that child she'll die and go

to hell. That .baby did not ask to be got here, did not ask

to be ; brought into this world. And it's against the law; it

may not be against theilaws of the land but it's against

God Almighty's will. And I do not believe in it.

T: A It's a matter of religion, right?

S: Right. I just don't believe in it.

LUM 147A


T: Many people have said they thought women should be able to

choose the destinies of their own bodies, do you feel that ...

if a woman maybe to have a child would cause her some evil

ill effects to her health or something that it could be justified


S: Well, if it was a matter of her life or the baby's life, you

know, it just depended on it, I would say go ahead, but that

is the only way -- a matter of life or death.

T: How long now have you been married?

S: Almost nine years.

T: Almost nine years. So you .-: pretty well no what it's all about,

don't you?

S: Yes, ma'am.

T: You know the young people today talk about trial marriages and

you have children coming up, and Lord knows, the times change

so much, we don't what it's going to be like when they start
dating and so on. But from the way you see/and what we know

about it today which seems sometimes it's very little and it's ...

like the kids say that trial marriages is the thing, that

nobody, you know, really gains by divorce. How do you see

that? You get all kind of arguments, in other words, it's

sort of like a license, getting license, or driver's permit,

you know, you say, well, you get a license to have a trial

marriage for a certain number of months and if it doesn't

work out, you just go separate ways or something like that.

LUM 147 A


Would you see that this could benefit society or would it tear

it down any?

S: In a way I think it would. In a way I think it wouldn't.

T: You think it would benefit and would not.?

S: Right. 'Cause a lot ...

T: Why do you think it would?

S: Well, a lot that would benefit by it maybe if they would stay
say, for
together/six months, you know. Maybe they could go on for the

rest of their lives, you know. Be happy and stay together.

T: ... anything like living with them, you can be around them

all the time .(Q 2-i< -W but it's different from living with

S: Right. And then on the other hand, maybe if they, well,/I

stayed with this man, say, three months,- well, I can't get

along with him.

T: Personality difference.

S: Right.

T: It's not >to say you're wrong, or he's wrong,...

S: Right.

T: You might be different.

S: And jIL-L you could get up and go on as long as there

was no kids involved. But as long as a child was out of the

picture, he'll be fine and well. But I don't think it would

be worth it to bring a child, say you stay with a man say, six

months, nine months or a year on a trial basis, you get pregnant

LUM 147A


and have a baby. You're destroying that baby's life. 'Cause

he'll say, well, where's my father. Where's my mother. See,

I lived through that with my son. He'd look at me /I I4 11WAS

asking me about his father. In which I wasn't even married to


T: You wasn't married to his father?

S: RIght.

T: Did you at that time and this is interesting because we dis-

cdssed it before and ... it takes a lot of courage and it says

sometkng about your character, too. You've J grown a

very wise woman. To be able to discuss it openly and I/M_ i_

~2 VfN- You know, without shame.

S: Right.

T: 'Cause really the child is something to be proud of.

S: UrC- tA honey.

T: And you wouldn't take any ...?

S: I wouldn't take a million dollars for him.

T: How did you feel when it first happened? Did you feel scorned

from ... did you get scorn from parents or people around you?

S: No, ma'am, no ma'am.

T: How was this handled in your family?

S: My mother was so happy. See, I was the only child. Well, I

had been dating this boy for three years when I got pregnant.

When the doctors told me I was so happy, I cried. I went

LUM 147A


and I told my mother and she cried. It was just, it was some-

thing of joy, you know, of happiness, something that was part

of me that was coming into the world. And she would have a


T: Well, now what about marriage? Did you think of marriage with

this child's father?

S: No.I'll tell you why. When I told him I was pregnant that was

in October, no, November;. We-hhd planned to be married in

March. And he looked at me that night. He said, if you ever

intend to marry me, you better do something about it. I looked

at him, I said, let me tell you something now. I said, I love

you more than God hisself, I said, but my baby comes first.


T: In other words, he wanted, in order to marry you, he'd give

you an ultimatum and said either get rid of the child or ...

S: That was ...

T: In other words it would be an abortion.

S: That was the understanding that I got from him.

T: Did you... have you ever had contact, or has he ever helped

with the child's support?

S: Yes, ma'am, he supported him up until about two years ago. We

settled it in court. And he had denied him up until two i

years ago, too.

T: So you went to court. And did you release him, in other words?

S: I told him if he never wanted to give him another cent I

had won my battle. He knew then for sure that child was his.

LUM 147A


T: Well, is there any likeness there? Can you tell?

S: Yes, ma'am. There usually is, seems like. Seems like in people

who want to deny their children they'll always come out looking

just like a carbon copy of them almost.

T: That's right.

T: I think that's an interesting story and one that certainly

is strengthening. 'Cause many, I think, young girls, do find

themselves in this plight. Especially this day and age. We

say we live in a liberal age were there's you know, free

love and sex and this kind of thing. How do you feel? Evi-

dently you were not against, too much against pre-marital

sex. And I've heard people say that they would never marry

a man until they've had sex with him because this is not all

of marriage, but it is a big thing.

S: Right.

T: How did .you feel along these lines? You've had some _I I ...

S: Well, then, see that was my first love. And I loved the dirt

he walked on. Well, even after the baby was born I married

my husband when he was about eighteeen or nineteen months 64&.
And I guess it's just,/you love somebody you want to be with

them. You know.

T: Right. You want to be as close as J__'as humanly possible.

This ... you're talking about your first child's ... your

first love? In other words, it was just a feeling. To you it

wasn't a feeling whether it was right or wrong, it was just

LUM 147A


feeling that you, that it was right to be with the one that you


S: Right.

T: \Now did you run into any hardship in your marriage,in your

present husband accepting this child by, that you had with

another man? Did you, could you detect any, you know, feelings

that, I don't know, maybe resentment or jealousy or ... sort

of hard to label.

S: Yes. Many times. I have experienced this because I have a

stepfather. My son's got a stepfather. Any time a stepfather

is involved he will never be as close to that child as

he should be. Now like he and the little girl there's as

much difference the way he treats them as day and night.

But me, when I do for one I do for them both. When I buy for

one, I buy for them both. It's just there....I don't know.,*-.

It's not that he hates the child, you know, just he ...well,

you just sit back and see the difference. Or I can.

T: Not include him a lot of times and this sort of thing.

S: Right.

T: Well, do you think the child notices the 4 l 7'8 4

T\ as he ever mentioned it to you _
0 s lronf )
S: Sure, he knows L he knows.

T: What ?.. _

S: He don't, he don't pay it no mind. He just goes off. As long

as Momma's there, he's okay.

T: And how old did you say he is?

LUM 147A


S: He's ten.

T: Does he know that this is not his real father?

S: Yes.

T: And how old was he when you told him ?

S: I didn't tell him. Someone else told him.

T: By mistake? Did you want it told ...?

S: No, I always said that he would always know who his father was

and he would be taught to love his father.

T: But you wanted to do it, you felt at the right time maybe?

S: Urn, huh.

T: What happened? Some mouthy person ...

S: Honey, people from the time he was big-enough to sit alone told

him who his father was. He was, just growed up and, you know,

people telling him.
)b^ 7" I.(- y
T: If I if I get too personal .:.

S: Honey, AS/C CA Jy.

T: You just tell me because I don't want ... sometimes you can

say I'd rather not comment on it. But have you had any

occasion to see the child's father since? I mean, just in pass-

ing on the street or how do you feel about him as a person

today? If you had to say, maybe just socialize with him in

a group ?

S: I could.

T: You qcild.

S: But it was something I had to learn to live with. It took me a

long time but I finally overcame it. I can talk to him. I

LUM 147A


can and pass him and A wave at him. And it doesn't bother me.

But yet, now if he was, you know, if he was around me a lot,

you know, and I'd get attached to him again, it would start

all over again.

T: Well, has he since been married or have any changes taken place

in his life?

S: -Yes, yes. He has been married and divorced.

T: Was any children

S: No, ma'am.

T: So actually the child you had for him was the only child

that he has?

S: That's the only child that he has.

T: And he denied him up until ...

S: He denied him up until two years ago.

T: So maybe that says that he's made some progress perhaps, you


S: He still acts as thought he has never been born. He'll speak

to him, but as far as coming to get him and take him places

and do things for him, no ma'am. He don't do it.

T: Does your present husband ever say anything about you know,

maybe like supporting the child > I _?

S: Well, I the last time were in court together the only thing

Joseph said about it, he said, : fed him eight years. He

said, we can go on feeding him the rest of his life. He

said, we didn't have to have his money, you know.

LUM 147A


T: Now Joseph is the name of your husband?

S: Right.

T: Okay- I believe you said you were a Locklear, right?

S: Right.

T: Before you married. Who was your mother and father?

S: My mother was Mary Lee Clark and my father was Percy Locklear.

T: Percy Locklear.

S: The name "Clark" is, it's in Pembroke, I hear it quite a bit.

Is it ... do you know if it's an Indian name associate r is

it CW/ /i 'Lost Colony name s I r4h that it took


S: To tell you the truth, I don't know 'cause my grandfather was

a Clark on my mother's side.

T: Um, huh.

S: And his father was ... I just, I dnn't know.

T: The reason I asked some people maintain that Lumbees, or Indians

you know, within this area as a group, came from the Lost Colony.

S: Um, huh.

T: I'm sure you heard that theory. Do you agree with that? How,

what's your feeling on that? It's history. Its something

maybe that we won't ever know for, you know, for sure, but

there's pretty good evidence points toward that.

S: Well, I can't say because I don't know, you know. It's possible,


T: Well, I think there's been some research and Mr. Adolph Dial...

LUM 147A


S: Urn, huh.,"' A (t,,l

T: 4rf ^^^-^^' I think he's writing a book and, is in the,,you

know, process of writing research or doing research in connection

with this about ... I don't know when it's to come out, it might

be, you know, too far away. How did you feel about ...r you went

to an all-Indian school, right?

S: Um, huh.

T: Did you have all Indian teachers?

S: Yes, as far as I can remember, yes.

T: Integration came along with your children, right?

S: Right. Right before they started, right before they started.

T: Did you like most people at first try to keep it from happening

within your own mind? Did you resent the change at first?

Some people did, but then they realized like, I think you said

they realized they were going to have to integrate. hie-college

over here; there's just not enough Indian students enrolled to

support the .'. .

S: ,,Right. 1,,,

T: ... the ___ .Were you for that or against it? People

from outside come in.

S: Well, honey, as long as they can get an education, where and how they

do it, it's fine with me. Something like that you can't take it

away from a person, you know, it wouldn't be -'right. This,

this would deny him his rights. You know. Why shouldn't they

have a right up here? I mean I hadn't got a thing against

LUM 147A


white, black or nobody else. I mean, I just, I can't help it.

I'm just that way. If they want to put my child in a class with

colored children, it's fine with me. Just so they treat them

both alike.

T: Something to be learned from all ...

S: Well, sure.

T: Well, I agree with you, too. I've always said if we could appreciate

the differences,because after all, we're all people, and ...

S: Right.

T: ... we're alike in so many ways ...

S: Right.

T: ... ways we don't even want to admit sometimes.

S: There you go.

T: And yet we do, there is a differences. And I think if we're all

alike, it would be such a boring world, wouldn't it? Thank

goodness we're a little bit different in little ways, anyway.

Sometimes little ways ... ; J}seems like it's

little things that get us crossed up now and then.

Let's see, there's one or two other things I wanted to

mention. I can't ... bring them to mind V ght now. How

do you feel about, you know, who should have the say? Do

you think the father should be the head of the / house or

should it be on an equal ... ?

S: If he's any father at all, he will be the head of the house.
6v- PC
T: Or a husband. Would you, would you ... or is it this
Wu... oru isul it hi

LUM 147A


way in your home; would you say? Or is it sort of half and


S: Well, I help him pay the bills, r- he helps me pay the bills.

You know. I guess you could say about half and half. You know.

T: Yeah. Well, it almost takes two now ...

S: It's got to take two, honey, er you won't make it.

T: ,,,With prices going up and up more so every day. What do you think

is the hardest thing on the family today? A lot of people say our

family, the thing of the family unit is going out of style

so to speak, or out / of structure. And that families are the

backbones of the nation. Well, we see this in divorces, and

some people don't even bother about the marriage part of it,

this kind of thing, but waht's the hardest thing in your mind?

And everybody's got a different answer. It's, it's, I don't think

it's probably right or wrong. What the hardest thing to keep, you know,

the family structure together? Think of your own little

present family.

S: WEll, there's only one way this can be done. That, say,

I mean just keep it together, and keep it perfect. That both

he and she if they're Christian people knew how to budget

everything just right, you kn ow.

T: Yeah. You're saying religion and money ...

S: Right. If they have a nice income, you know.

T: At least give'Jst, ik 4toC c a

S: Right. And just, like going to church and I'll tell you another

LUM 147 A


thing that help keeps the family together is doing things


T: Go on with that a little more.

S: Not letting one go one way, the other one go the other way.

T: He goes fishing and she takes the kids and goes swimming and

that kind of thing.

S: Right. They should do it together. Take those kids places to-

gether. Don't send them. Go with them.

T: Do you agree with this in the sense of going to church?

S: There you go. Don't send the kids. Get out and go with the


T: You say the whole familyrS oP.(,> 4

S: The whole family should go.
T: If it's not / too personal--what is your religion? How do

you, or what do you affiliate with ...?

S: I tell you, just like a told the preacher last night, no,

excuse me, night before last. They say, well, why don't you

come to church? Who don't you join the church? I said, "Jerry,"

i said, "I don't claim to be no Chtristian," I said, "but I'm

as good as alot of thv'e hypocrites sitting' up over there

in that church." I said, "They're going back'claimingr:they're

something which they're not." I:said, "I'm just out here

minding my own business." I said, "I'm not f 1tj j 'm 0

-i^>* to nothing I'm just j .

T: Um, huh. You believe in God, don't you?

LUM 147 a


S: Right. ,

T: To what extent do you believe in Him? Is I.a personal

______ __ _ff_ you know, L;/ i i/c J o C ij0

-D keeping things going, or is it a personal 1A f'

_t__ J__ __ ? In other words, would you be a person to

say, well, I felt the presence of God / A, C V-4 7-

or something like this? Would that be a statement that you might

want to make or is it maybe not quite that close or tha\

S: No, God is somebody or a person that you have to have faith


T: Um, huh. In other words, you have to believe There's a God.

S: You have to believe there is a God. And read the Bible. Just

as He said. It's the only truth. The faith of a mustard seed.

T: Um, huh. How did you feel about the decision maybe at that time

but how do you feel about it now? Do you think that they ought

to have prayer -) in school though? You know the Supreme

Court outlawed it because some woman said it was, she didn't

believe in prayers, she didn't believe in God and she want

the idea enforced on her children to believe something that

the family didn't believe in, which was God, you know. So

the Supreme Court then ruled that there would be no prayers

in the schools as such How do you feel about that? Do you

think that we should give our children a Ch.ristian basis

LUM 147 A


: you know,
as to prayer, at least/maybe have a Bible story and a little


S: To me it would be fine, but there is so many other people who

wouldn't approve. You know, Like well, they don't believe in God,

they don't believe in this, they don't believe in that. But

to me there would be nothing wrong with it.

T: Um, huh. It would ...

S: Tell them a Bible story or something, you know.

T: Yeah.

S: 'Cause a child, you've ot to teach that child. 'Cause if you

don't teach that child he'd never know. What if the parent

well, don't teach my child. Don't pray to my child. Pray

for ... waht if the teacher said, well, I can't teach it to read,

can't 'teach it to write.
T: Well, maybe, hopefully, they're saying,/teaching them to read

and write, that they can then in turn read the Word or the

Bible story when they get a little older.

S: Right, if they ever get old enough they'll read it, and

you know, be taught to read.

T: Those that really want to learn it, I think sometimes, will
get out, and you know, just /: it on their own. That some-

times it's harder for those that's held back. Do you

think as Indian people in this area that we've been held

back in any way ?

LUM 147 A


S: No, ma'am.

T: You don't think we've been held back in any way?

S: Well, it's possible, but I'm speaking from my standpoint of

view. A person has got to help his own self. He's got to kel

self before anybody else can help him.

T: There is a getting back to the Biblical, the Lord will help

those that help themselves.

S: 4C) I II they walk around here, they grumble about, well, we

ain't got an Indian this, ain't got an Indian that. Well,

why don't an Indian get up and go on to school and be an Indian

this or Indian that?

T: Get qualified.

S: There you go. They can do it just as good as ....

T: What about the ones that gripes about the white man's done

us this, the white man's done us that and spends his day

griping about what the white man has done to us, in other

words? But I mean he knows the problem. It seems like he
beyond to
needs to go a little/ what the solution is. I mean, do you

think, what I'm asking, do you think a lot can be accomplished?

I know history,in studying it you can't help but feel the

Indian has been done wrong with the white man in the past,

you know. .

S: Well, Z La 1 P ').

T: But do you think that that helps us just to dwell on that

and we not go forward ; just looking back "i saying, well,

LUM 147 A


the white man's done this and the white man's done us

wrong and he has *" '.

S: No, no, no, no.

T: We're not going to get it unless we get out there and ...

S: There you go. If you going to get out there and sweat and work

for what you do, you don't get nothing I don't care whether

you're white, black or brown.

T: What about the, you know, the Tuscarooras are asking for their-

schools back. But in so asking they don't get any federal

support. And what kind of schools would they have?

S: They wouldn't have no schools.

T: There's not that much money among them, it don't seem. They're

not that wealthy a people, are they? Do you IN' ]

S: No, ma'am.

T: And do you see them as educated, in the sense that they have
known as
education and, you know, know about what is / formal

education like 1 -0t8 to school. Would you say as

many as ten or fifteen of them finished college?

S: I seriously doubt it.

T: I believe it was fe t< who said he got V o r

S: He's as stupid as any of them. He's got no sense. He 6itA-

much got no common sense,

T: Have you ever talked to him or I,,

S: % no, and I ain't going to,.

LUM 147 A


I know some of them said they had just to see what it was like,

you know. But I jut wondered, you know, how, if you'd heard

about it or heard him speak or anything. But you've known

him in growing up, I guess, and come in contact with him.

S: My opinion of them peopler-they're from out of the backwoods,

they hadn't ever had no education, they hadn't ever been taught
no commons! sense. If they know w/ they want why don't

they go at it in the right way instead of the wrong way?

Just like going down before the board of education, standing

therekhooping and a hollering. That's stupidity.

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