Citation
Interview with Earlie Broncia Maynor, December 18, 1972

Material Information

Title:
Interview with Earlie Broncia Maynor, December 18, 1972
Creator:
Maynor, Earlie Broncia ( Interviewee )
Publication Date:
Language:
English

Subjects

Subjects / Keywords:
Florida History ( local )
Lumbee Oral History Collection ( local )
Spatial Coverage:
Lumbee County (Fla.)

Notes

Funding:
This text has been transcribed from an audio or video oral history. Digitization was funded by a gift from Caleb J. and Michele B. Grimes.

Record Information

Source Institution:
Samuel Proctor Oral History Program, Department of History, University of Florida
Holding Location:
This interview is part of the 'Lumbee County' collection of interviews held by the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program of the Department of History at the University of Florida
Rights Management:
Made available under a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 4.0 International license: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/.

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Full Text






LUM 49A

Barton interview w/
Earlie B. Maynor

12/18/72

SLW --typist

B: This is Lew Baron recording for the Doris Duke American Indian Oral
A
History Program. This is December 18, 1972. I am in my home in Pembroke,

North Carolina and with me is Mayor Earlie B. Maynor. Is that right?

What is tLat "B." for in your name, Mayor?

M: That's for "Broncia". Earlie Bronci'Maynor.

B: How do you spell that middle name?

M: B-r-o-n-c-i-a.

B: I see.

M: Earlie Brancia Maynor.

B: Well, I've been wanting to interview you for this program for a long, long

time because you're certainly a central figure among the Lumbee Indians. We're

all very proud of you and your work and we certainly want other people to know

about it, and I'd like to ask you something first of all about your personal

biography, you know, your family. How old are you n ow?

MY I'm 59 years old;come February the 24th, if I'm still livin', I'll be 60.

And I believe that, counts up to about 3/5 of a century.

B: Right! The time really goes by. And tell us something about your family if

you would--your father and your mother. 'Course I know them, or knew them ...

M: Well, my ... my mother and father were Mr. and Mrs. Willie D. Maynor and

of course I lost my mother in 1950 at sixty-nine years of age, and I lost my

father three years ago at 95. They were farmers all of their lives--church-

goin' people, and they stood well in the community in which they lived.

B: Yes, I'm sure of that. Your father was especially well-known with church







2

LUM 49A

work and your brothers and ... I know some of your brothers. Uh, how many

were in your family, Mayor?

M: There were four boys and two girls. We have two boys, two of the brothers

have gone on and there's two brothers and two sisters yet. Four of us still

living.

B: Uh, huh. Would you mind us telling us the names of those who are surviving?

M: Miss ... Mrs. Bill Thompson, Mrs. Alverti Jacobs, The Reverend Roy W. Maynor,

and myself, Earlie B. Maynor.

B: Yes, sir. You've been active in some many areas I hardly know where to start.

But I think perhaps you begin in the teaching profession and then your church

work first of all. Maybe your church work even before your school work, is

that right?

M: Yes, as we mentioned about my father there, he carried us to church all of

our lives and of course that came first with us and then of course, we were

farmers in the beginning and I went into 'or a number of years--

timber business, ...

B: Um, huh.

M: I then went .... after going and pullin' a good long period in the United States

Army, being discharged then, I came back and finished my college work, and wen

into the profession of teaching.

B: Um, huh.

M: And I taught for a number of years. Presently now I am still)of course the

mayor of the town of Pembroke and executive director for a newly established

organization in the state of North Carolin4, ., namely the North Carolina

Commission of Indian Affairs.

B: Yes, sir.

M: I'm executive director of that at the present time. And we'll talk about either

one you prefer first, the commission or the mayorship.









3

LUM 49A

B: Well, we certainly want to cover that ground. I was just wondering if

there were any details we missed on your personal biography because this
01
will go permanent file in the University libraries, and could you give us

the dates you were in service and which branch of service you were in?

M: Well, I went in in June of 1942, and came out in July, 1945.

B: Um, huh.

M: And of course I served with the United States Army in the artillery and

also in the medical aid department. Uh, I never did get overseas, but it

was very essential for some to rema'f\ here and prepare and set up the things

that were necessary for those to serve on foreign soil

B: Yes, sir.

M: So I served in the Medics in the service as well as in the Field Artillery,

uh, while I was in the U. S. Army.

B: Um, huh. I remember, if you'll excuse this personal injection, when you were

deciding to run for mayor, you and I had a conversation, and you said, "Well,

Brother Barton, I'm praying about it and whichever way the Lord leads me,"
him
you says, "that's the way I'll go." And says, You can depend on / because

I was one of the people who wanted you to run.

M: Um, huh.

B: And uh, what year was that? Do you rem--?

M: Um, ... that was ... '66.

B: '66. I remember it very well and I know you did run and you did ... you did

go over well, and you came to be considered a man of the people and you're

still considered as the people's man, and uh, 'course I've always been very

proud of that-- of having known you and maybe you could tell us something about

your experiences since you became mayor of Pembroke.


t







4

LUM 49A

M: Well, first of all, Mr. Barton, let me say that I have always appreciated you

and your interest in people and the welfare of everyone and especially the

way you felt about me. I know that you have supported me through these

years in every election and as you forestated there I did give it much con-

sidoeration before I decided to shoulder the responsibility if it was the will

of the people. And it was sorta hard for me to get out of it because I had

been consulted about it for eight years and finally some of my friends called

me in and they stuck the filing fee in my pocket and says, "You go file, and

uh, we'll put you in office. 'YMu won't even have to work for it." But I

came 6 to the conclusion before I did accept it that I'd give it what I had and

seek the guidance of the Almighty in performing' the duties that I was sure

I would be faced with. And as a result, I feel like that it's helped me as

well as many of our people--in the town of Pembroke. I feel that we have ac-

complished many things. One of the most important things were the upgrading

of the water and sewer--two items that any municipality must have. It's im-

possible to get along without it and ours just weren't sufficient. So one of

the first things we did after we got in office and surveyed the overall

situation. We began to look for monies to help us out in this affair and

I took the clerk and part of the board and we went immediately to Raleigh-.

And went to the co-ordinator for the state of Norht Carolina that has to do with

EDA funds. And of course he was nice enough, Mr. Charles S. Edwards, to

come to Pembroke and help us file the application. And after this in eleven

months, we were given in the form of a grant by the Federal.Government $215,0001

B: Um, huh.

M: And of course we matched that money and they also loaned us that at an interest

rate of 4 ]/4% which I thought was very good. And of course we've upgraded

the water and sewer to where we've been able to meet the demands of our

university, namely Pembroke State University.








5

LUM 49A

At that time I believe we had about six to eight hundred students. Now

I believe it's somewehre in the area of two thousand.

B: Yes.

M: Just today we contracted the engineers that 0 looked after this upgrading

for us before and they've consented to come in a period of thirty days and

observe the situation agin for us and write a proposal in order that we

might be able to gather at least another lf a million dollars to continue and

expand more yet our water and sewer facilities. It's very demanding that

we have this simply because we have according to my knowledge, one of the

most outstanding univeristies in the state--in the United States, and it's de-

manding much from the town. And we feel that it's our duty and our responsi-

bility to stay sorta ahead of the game. We're looking' ahead now uh, several

years. We ... we have been assured that if we get a half a million dollars

or more that the Federal Government will pay 55% of it and that the state

will pay 25%; this will give us 80% of the cost of it and that will lighten it

very much on the taxpayers of the town of Pembroke. Now we ... we have done

many other things there nine with this but I feel like this is the most

urgent and the most outstanding accomplishment that we've made since we've

been in this office here because now and that number of people-- we have

students there from New York to Florida-- we have students from the West and it's
real
a great asset and a / service to not only the Indian people of this area,

but to one and all that will come and indulge in the educational facilities

of Pembroke State Univeristy. I'll tell you, I'm ... I'm very pleased with

the overall operation. On this campus we've had many new buildings con-

structed recently, and I understand that the potential is about as great as

ever for a continuation of this same sort of thing.

B: Um, huh. And the town has worked hand in hand with the university, hasn't it?

M: We've been very close in every respect--good understanding, good relationship,







5

LUM 49A

and I feel like that there's not another university in the ... in the United

States that have had a better relationship and have gotten along any better

than the people of the university and especially the students and the

original people of the immediate area.

B: Um, huh. And the town ... the town has always ... has always furnished these

facilities for the institution. This has bec--, this has come down to us

... down through the years, has it not? I mean it's sort of a traditional

thing, isn't it?

M: Well, for a few ... for a while there, they did have a water tank up there

that weren't sufficient and the operation was such that they realized that

they'd come out better to allow the town of Pembroke to furnish these

utilities for them. So we've been doin' it now for a number of years and
1 II
it iwo(ks better for all.

B: This is something that most people don't know about I suppose and it is

very important and uh, I'm sure that ... the facilities you were describing

to me a while ago ... this is very interesting and also I was interested

in the facilities for the ... the plant that you anticipate coming to the

area. I wonder could you comment on that?

M: Well, in my term in office here we ... we have two factories that have

come. We have one here now that's just getting in full operation and it's

owned by Stuart Modular Homes of New York City and they're building' a trailer

type home which is very essential, easy to be had, and it's serving' a good

purpose we feel like. Many of our people have been able to secure positions

or jobs in this particular plant and we t that it's growing daily.

B: Um, huh.

M: We also have in our town a ... a sewing factory that has been most successful

to our people for a number of years and we have another one that was just

set up last week, the paper work was processed on it and I happened to be)








6

LUM 49A

in a sense a part of it and I had to sign some of the papers. And we

expecting' that to be opened up and running' pretty well in full operation

within the first thirty days of 1973.

B: That's certainly great because employment is so very important to this de-
6-
pressed area here in Rob/son County.

M: Also in line with this plant that we're speaking' about, I'll tell ya a little

more in detail on' it there, ...

B: Good.

M: We're goin' to have one hundred sewin' machines installed. And that will

work a hundred of our women. We'll have some maintenance help in there

and chances are some cutters and some packagin' and there'll be a office

crew. I don't know if ... if we don't be a working' in this new plant at least

150 people. And I ... I'm certainly pleased with this. I feel like that this

will be one of the greatest assets to this immediate area right here, namely

Pembroke, shich I take to 6e the capital city of the Indian people, the Lumbee

Indian people of Rob son County and surrounding areas. This might be deviated

a little bit, but listen to ... I just want to mention it. If you'll notice

every Sunday our streets and highways in and around the little town of Pem-
II II
broke here are just corroded with people--it's bumper on bumper and it's that

way all the evening. I'm glad because our Lumbee Indian people feel this way

about Pembroke, North Carolina.

B: That's great. You don't believe ... you don't think there's any animosity

well, on our part anyway toward anybody do you mayor?

M: No, I feel like that we're a peace-lovin' people and let me say againthe re-

lationship in the town of Pembroke and the surrounding areas with three races

here, the black, and the Indian and the white, and then with the different

personalities that we have coming' to our area from across the state to attend

the university, uh, I feel like that we've had excellent relationship, and I'm







7

LUM 49A

certainly thankful for that.

B: It's cert--, it's certainly encouraging uh, there's so many things that

we could talk about but I want you to feel free to discuss the things

which are important to you because you're ... you're close to the ... activities,

all the activities of the Indian community, I think. -(

M: I just like to talk here, Mr. Barton, a minute about another project we have in

the town of Pembroke that we're pleased to have and the need was very great

for it.. And that is a housing project.

B: Um, huh.

M: We have in ... in our town here under construction now a housing project and some-

times I try to say it in a way that everybody will understand because some

of us are country people and some are city people, but this project is ... is

70 homes. And I don't know, tell you the truth, IjX't know how many families

it will really take care of, but it cost $1,360,000. And this is some-
SI/I
44--is reffered to by me as sixteen acres of homes---sixteen acres of homes.

And the thing that is so pleasing about it-- those people that are old, those

people that have been under-privileged, and haven't had a chance in life, and

many of them now that would sleep cold if it weren't for this, and wouldn't

have a comfortable place through the daytime even to rest, those I that have

passed the age of being able to render service, they come first in being able

to get into these homes. And you know, that ... that makes me feel good be-

cause so many people today have never had to suffer and they don't know what

it is to suffer and to not have a good, warm comfortable place especially in

cold weather.

B: Right.

M: ... to sleep and to stay, and this just thrills me to know that we've got un-
II II
der.: construction sixteen acres of homes. Now ...

B: That's wonderful.







8

LUM 49A

M: We've put in for another 300 such homes.. You know they don't always

give you what you ask for.

B: Right.

M: We asked for 200 and got 70. We've asked for 300 and this time we've got

75. This is being processed, which will be a continuation in the area of
present
housing that we're dealing' with at the /time. So when we get along with this

seventy, seventy-five more, along -ih the other homes that are bein' built

in town by contractors and individual builders, I feel like that it won't be
we'll
long before A have our housing pretty well under control.

B: Yes, sir. How about the appearance of Indian homes in the area. Do you if

they compare favorably with those of other groups, people from other ethnic

groups?

M: Well, I think, I think we're a little above the average. Now I was on the

Cherokee reservation in the western part of the state a little better than a

week ago and I didn't go in and look, but to observe it looked to me that they

weren't as far along as we wge in the quality of homes that I was able to

observe. We have other areas in even in the state of North Carolina here.

Some, some areas I go in with about r(Chours, about equal hours, some

I go into would be a little under. I don't think I found any anyplace that

would excel us in appearance, in quality and comfort. So I feel like we're

not in too bad a shape, but the thing that is thrilling, we're getting bet-

ter all the time.

B: Nothing is ever so perfect it couldn't be a little bit better, right?

M: There's always room for improvement, but we're human beings and we're limited

and ... that's the thing I'm looking' for is progress and growth and improve-

ment.

B: Well, now this gives you connections with other Indian groups. As a matter of

fact you're in close contact with every Indian group in No1li Carolina, right?







9

LUM 49A

M: Yes, uh, huh. Yes. Unlessin' there's a few some place that I don't know

about, and 'course I got a rundown on the census just recently and I find flyf

there's only three or four counties in the whole state that don't have at least

one Indian. Some of 'em have only one, or two.

B: Well, you know, that's interesting.

M: That is interesting. And if I ... I'm gonna try to remember to mail you one

of these packets that I made up with the Indian Commission. Before we get off

of this let me mention one other project; now in this upgrading of water and

sewer we put in one water tank. And all of this past stuff the Federal Gov-

ernment paid half of it for us. But we're coming' up now with another water

tank to increase pressure yet, which ill give us three high-rise water tanks

in our municipality here of 1982 /. Of course the university on the ... on

the rim here of the city puts many of their people on us for a period of time

so we do have many more than 1982 that we're supplyin' the need. But we have

a third water tank that's bein' put up to increase pressure for industry

that's here, for industry that's comin'now, and for industry we expect to come

later. And this tank we'll set on a two-acre tract of land that the town of

Pembroke owns, but the Federal Government will pay the full price for it. It

won't Dst the Indian, the WPack, nor the white taxpayer in the town of Pembroke

and the surrounding area any extra tax,

B: Well, that's great.

M: This is another something' that sorta thrills me and we're not out a'lookin'

for handouts or looking' for something' that we're not entitled to, but I felt

like that our area was entitled to the things that we've gone out and got

and we're entitled to more and we're by no chance stopping ; we're still moving'

in that direction and trying to gather that which it would take to sustain

for the needs of our people in this immediate area.

B: Well, that's certainly encouraging, and I think everybody ought to know about







10

LUM 49A

the advancements that the town is making and we're certainly glad to have

you tell us about it, because naturally you know more about it than just about

anybody else. How about ... how about the racial division in the town itself?

We have ... we know we have all three races and this is something some people

don't generally know about, but what percentage, do you ... have you any

idea as to what the percentage is or ?

M: We've got ... it's just about 85% Indian, about 5% black, and 10% white.

B: Uh, huh. That's in the town proper.

M: In the town of Pembroke.

B: That doesn't count the University?

M: No, hu, uh. We've got also in the town of Pembroke another something' that

might be interested in the government. We've got all races on our boards.

And on our police force we've got Indian and white. It's been open for the

black, but no one has come uh, for a position as a policeman. Now we have

a ABC Board, we have a Housing Authority Board, we have a zonin' board, and
the
we have a board the town commissioners, / governing' body of the entire town.

Along with myself, and the relationship to me seems to be just excellent

with all of those boards, with the governing' body, with the fire department--

and it seems to me like the operation is overall very successful. In other

words, I'm delighted with it when I read and learn about what goes on

4 in some of the other smaller municipalities, even in the state of North

Carolina.

B: This is certainly interesting because h the percentage of Indians being

as high as it is the Indians could absolutely control public offices and shut

out other groups if ... if they were so minded.

M: That could easily be done.

B: But this has never happened, has it?

M: No, we'll ... we'll have better relationship when we respect all races.



B: Right.









11

LUM 49A

M: And do that which is just, honest, and acceptable.

B: Right. Right. In other words we're more democratic than most people

realize, aren't we?

M: I think so, yes. Yes, we definitely are.

B: And this is Christian too. It's certainly encouraging. Well, I don't

mean to interrupt you always, but I ...

M: This is good, we want this because the more questions you ask, the more in

detail I can go and 1 chances are bring more of the things out that would

be really and truly interesting to the people that ha-e never been in this

area. And again let me say we do have all three races here--- we, we livin'

in the same municipality ; we have all three races in ... various positions,

even though the Indian is far ahead so far as percent or number is concerned.

In our municipality her we have all three races that have business or at least

the Indian and white. Our ... our colored people are so few until ... we

wouldn't expect too much from them; they're, they're very few. In fact I

believe in number, one count I had of it, was thirty-odd.

B: Just thirty-odd ...

M: Yeah, that would be even less than 5%, a whole lot but I didn't want to be ...

I didn't want to give them less than they really were.

B: Yes,sir.

M: Now we might come back to this but since we're ... we're speaking' about housing'

there and this sort of thing, I'd like to this now and sorta tie it

with the North Carolina Commission of Indian Affairs.

B: Right. That's a great idea.

M: We ... we ... we've travelled over the state and especially the eastern part

of the state; I mentioned a while ago about goin' to Cherokee, but their a

reservated Indian and they have a direct line into the Federal Government.








12

LUM 49A

They have a connection that the non-reservated Indian don't have. And we

are non-reservated on the eastern shore here, and in the housing area, we've

gone to, to different county seats and carried in carpenters that ... to the

FHA and got set-ups there for people to get homes built much easier. We've

got a set-up in process that will pay a portion of any individual's home 4SE

if his income is not what they feel like it ought to be. And in the town of

Pembroke here, I talked to the Brooks boys over there and to a Mr. Sam Kerns

that looks after the housing' and I've been working' with him on this. There's

other people over the state that are doin' the same kind of work, and he told

me he number of homes several months ago that they had built, were building ,

and would built that had been traded for was somewhere above ninety.,,

B: Right...

M:...or underprivileged people out there that otherwise wouldn't have had a home.

B: Um, huh. Was the program a little late in getting' started or did it start

about on schedule or what? I really don't know --- the housing program.

M: Now you're talking' about the commission housing ?

B: I'm talking' about the housing' here in Pembroke.

M: Oh. Well, the housing' here in Pembroke--you know, a big operation like that

you take $1,360, 000 worth of homes or sixteen acres and you're dealing' with

the Federal Government there, they can set a date as a general ruleeAs a general

rule, it's hard to get right in on that date. There was some things with

some of the sub-contractors, to begin with that held it up, I know what

thinking' about, it appears to be off schedule but there was someone under

contract and they didn't perform satisfactorily and they had to make some

changes ...

B: Right.

M: And in making' these changes, it throwd it behind sometime, and of course

these things will happen all over. But now along with this we do have a







13

LUM 49A

state operation that's reaching' out into the areas and finding' the people

that are livin' in homes with holes through the floor in some places and

... leaks in the top and we're able to help many of these people get decent

homes to live in.

B: That's wonderful. I ... I certainly hope it continues. YQu know my wife worked

with the poverty program for a while and I heard her talkMM about going
S-fOt r
into homes, uh, you know, among 4 races, ...

M: Im, huh, yes.

B: ... poor people where they didn't even have a cook stove, ...

M: Uh, huh.

B: 'Course these are extreme cases.

M: Yes.

B: But this is all so encouraging and .... what do you envision for the Commission

on Indian Affairs in North Carolina?

M: We're going to get grants, and we're going to get help to set up programs,
IT
and we're going to have what is known as an endiig desk, and this is just

going to be another agent, sorta like community relationship, sorta like

good neighbor council, uh, it's going to be another agency in the area that will

promote livelihood in many respects for the people. I'll tell ya, I'll

tell you one thing there now, when I was hired executive director they didn't

tell me what to do, but the bylaws and the bill itself mentioned recreation,

and housing' and so forth. And on the ... in the field of recreation we're

deviatin' a little bit but let me reach back to the municipality here on re-

creation and then we'll go back to the commission. In the town of Pem-

broke here we just about finished up a very unique Little League park, I like

to call it, here in the twen of Pembroke, fixed up with good lighting' a

good fence around it, good building's, good bleachers, and the Federal

Government paid half of the cost of that. We have another park area here








14

LUM 49A

that we're working' on now, the lawyer is processing' the papers, and

the land for this particular park in our town here will be given. And of

course uh, uh, the Federal Government''will give the value of that land in

money to develop it.

B: Um, huh.

M: Alright, let's reach back now to the Indian Commission. In the Indian Com-

mission when theyhired me and I didn't know just what to do, but I went right

out and the first place I went to was this International Paper Company,

which is a big organization. And over among the Lake Waukemau Indians,

namely the i they have no recreation; they have to drive thirty-six

miles for any type of recreation, and I went over there along the highway

with some of them and we picked out a nice place there, and we went to In-

ternational Paper Complany down in Georgetown, South Carolint, and asked

'em for five acres of land there. They're going to give that land because

they asked us to go ahead and survey if off and pay for the surveying, and

send them a copy of the survey, and that we did.

B: Well, that's great.

M: Then they took that survey along with all of the other things and made up a

complete package and sent it to headquarters, and we're waiting' now for that

to come back to us--a deed. When we get that then we're going to some foun-

dation, or we're going to some department in the Federal Government, and

we're going to get money to develop that. We plan to go there and build some

type of recreation building' as well as set up a Little League ballteam that

could be used for other baseball set-ups also. This is in one area now if

this works in that one area and it's going to Wc, we're going to the other

areas and do the same thing. We've got an area up in Sampson County--these

are the c --_ri Indians. We want to do the same thing there. Then we want

to go on up little nearer to the line of Virginia, uh, to Warren and








15

LUM 49A

Halifax County, and do the same thing up there.

B: For the __ Indian.

M: That's right. And of course we're going to be getting these things largely

for the Indian people.

B: Um, huh.

M: We, we wouldn't dare block anybody else out but when you go in an area where
II 11
there's pretty well nothing' but Indians, then you can call it Indian.

B: Right. You know, this is the first time you were, you were employed originally

with a brand-new organization, and uh, o4course you had to start from

scratch, everything new has to start from scratch, but could you tell us a

little something about how the North Carolina Commission on Indian Affairs

came into existence since it is fairly new?

M: Yes, well, I odn't hardly know where scratch is at, but we started and ... we,

we got together and wrote a bill several times and carried it in, and it, they

let it down. Some of the di UJ, some oithe others, mostly worked on this,

now I didn't put much time in it.

B: Yes, sir.

M: And on about the third time we just got together and we had people from all

over and we went up and we went into a caucus with members of the General

Assembly.

B: Um, huh.

M: And uh, after we had gone through discussion after discussion, asked ques-

tions and answered questions, I know I got out of my bed one night and drove

all the way to Raleigh, better than a hundred miles, and we had a meeting

there 'til 2:30 in the morning, something like that; then in a ubus the

next day with members of the Gderal Assembly, and we sorta educated 'em on

the, the set-up that it would be successful and they pushed it through the

General Assembly and the last assembly. And ... the ... why I say it was









16

LUM 49A

scratch, and really scratch, the only appropriated $25,000 for a bi-/nnium--

two years, and they, they were about to get out and not do that, but we

took that $25,000 and waited til ten months of the two years had passed, and

then we broke it down and got what we could and we've moved with that. I'm

the only one on the staff--paid. And of course another one of he things

that I'm pushin' for, besides recreation is a.budget--state budget.

B: Um, huh.

M: I've gone through the important people there in getting' this budget set

up. We, we've asked for a change in budget--from $25,000 to $ 200,000. That

B: Um, huh. Do you feel optimistic about it?

M: Oh, I feel good! Now you take our budget advisor uh, member, Mr. Gardner,

I had explained this thing to just about everyone on the budget adv--, budget

committee. And he told me that when he presented it there weren't one

question asked about it. They passed it.

B: That's great.

M" 'Course now when the pass it uh, it goes into the General Assembly, and the

General Assembly is the one that says whether we have it or not--the final

say on it. But I think maybe the General Assembly will take what they've

said when I bought them up to date on things we were doin', things in the

field of recreation, things that had to do with manpower, getting jobs,

we've done right much of that, helping' Indian numbers set up businesses and

get money through ... organizations like small business. We worked right ex-

tensively in the field of education. However, just one man on the staff--you

couldn't expect too much. But it seems to me like that we we're going to

have it off of the ground in a little bit. Now ...

B: Well, now we have here a dream uh, coming into fruition and I wonder if you

mind let's ... backtracking just a little bit, and if you would mind naming







17

LUM 49A

some of the people you know who were responsible for the ideas, or those

you remember and those responsible for bringing it into existence--this

would certainly be helpful because this commission is not going to end

as you and I both know, it;s going to grow. I share your optimism there2

and it is working out.

M: Let me come back to that in just a minute when I finish about this budget.

I might forget that.

B: Alright.

M: As has been forestated twice I believe I'm the only one on pay, but when

this budget goes through then we're going to put people out in the field.

Educationalist specialists, research workers, uh, people in general, to

help in finding' the needs where that we can be useful to and that will

relieve my ...'

Side 2



B: This is Side 2 of the tape of the interview with Mayor Maynor. And I'm

sorry we were interrupted there by coming to the end of the tape. But I

hope you can pick up where you were.

M: That's ... that's to be expected. We ... we were ready for that. Now when

we get enough of people on staff that something' will beacomin' across the

desk to entertain pretty well all of my time. Then of course I will spend

that time in Raleigh. But up until now I've had to get out in the field and

travel far and near and make personal contacts to get eft this thing moving as

far as we have gotten it already. Now let me reach back to the question

you asked here about the beginners. Uh, tell you the truth, this thing

started several years ago. John Wheeley Oxendine, Hilton Oxendine, and seem

to be like Horace Locklear, who is our attorney now, and Herman Dial and

there was a few others; this was several years ago made an attempt at it.







18

LUM 49A

B: Um,huh.

M: They got together and had a meeting over there and it just didn't work. Then

later on Bruce Jones, Ruth Roberts, W. J. Strickland, uh, Bill Loughery,

Shirley Loughery, uh, and there's several others that had a part in it ...

B: Um, huh.

M: ...from this area; from the Columbus County area we had Priscilla Jacobs,

Cliff RTayrnl and Mrs. Raym* d and there's some others from that area that

I don't know their names, that's the 9 Y Indian area; up in Sampson

County we had Dolphus PRn we had James L. Jacobs, and we had Mrs. Dolphus

Broynton that really took a part in it, in preparing' it and making' it

ready. We had up in Warren and Halifax County W. R. Richardson, the chief

up there, and Herbert Richardson, and a Mr. McGhee, and uh ...

B: Bill McGhee?

M: Bill McGhee, and there's several others I ... I don't remember right off their

names, along with folks like our Indian Commissioner, Brantley Blue in Wash-

ington, D. C., and fellas like Tom Oxendine, and Mr. Sweat, uh, that Pernell

that's in Washington also with HEW; Mrs. Helen Shurbeck and there's many

others that were interested in it and got behind it and put their shoulder to

the wheel and pushed on if and of course by so doing after this group made

the second stab at it, they passed it, and I think it's one of the most out-

standin' and will be one of the greatest assets that the state has realized.

B: Uh, yessir.-

M: Because we've got one agency, listen to this, we've got one agency LRDA,

Lumbee Regional Development Associates, I was in the office there this mornings

They've had several funding from the Federal Government. I don't remember

the total number, amount of money but the last funding' they got, or grant,

was $210,000.

B: Um, huh.







19

LUM 49A

M: I was able ...

B: You were associated with that also aren't you, Mayor?

M: Yes, well, these organizations come within the range of the Indian Com-

mission.

B: Yes, sir.

M: I was in there this morning and he has forty-five on his staff, working' now.

Now the good thing about this, this is not state money, but this is

Federal money that's coming' into the state because of the Indian Commission.

B: Right.

M: Along with that, the other three areas that I just mentioned the _____i
CO2 Aar)a Ho 0/o We 4
the _, and the Hgita, we have the same kind-of organization set

up there. I personal took the articles of _eea era and carried them

to dS(Thad j/t I's office, the Secretary of State. The lawyer and myself

went through them and made sure that they were correct and they've been

registered or recorded with the state. The bylaws as a non-profit organi-

zation has been accepted. Now these three other areas are ready to write

proposals and get funded the same way from the Federal Government to carry

on different programs in their area. And this is under the North Carolina

Commission of Indian Affairs.

B: Um, uh. Now who um, we, we'd like to say a word if we 'may, about the ones

who our statesmen who you know had the job of pushing it through the Gen-

eral Assembly. Would you mind mentioning the names of the people, you know,

who, who sorta pushed it through the General Assembly, our statesmen from

this area, who were ...?

M: Yes, um, huh. We had A Mr. McFadden from ... representative from Scotland

County, the area; and we have ... we had a Mrs. Mary Odum, that was

right behind it from the Assembly, a member of it; we had Mr. Gus Spiro, another

representative that was very inte-rested in it, and the ReverenjJoey
-j







20

LUM 49A

JpasTr from Fairmont, ...

B: Um, huh.

M: He's a black man but an excellent man; he's a minister, pastor of two

churches, and he gave it everything that he had. I feel like that he's

more responsible than anyone else for the $25,000 that we got to operate

with even though it was a very meager sum.

B: It was hard to get that, wasn't it?

M: It was. And he ... he stood his ground, and he spoke up and they gave it to

us and out of that $25,000 we've bought office equipment, got our offices set

up, and we've had enough money to ... to buy other things that we had to

have as well, as pay me my salary and pay me mileage and uh, uh, for meals

and this sort of thing when I was a long ways from home. So I'll tell ya, I

feel like that those four people there in particular, since they are from

our area, were very interested in it and they really and truly wanted

to see it passed. And I'll have to say, and put it in tape here, that

I do appreciate it and many thanks to those people. Now we had a Mr. Irvin

Aldridge, that was with the Department of Local Affairs there in Raleigh and

some of his staff that played a mightly big hand in helping' us to get this

agency set up. And we appreciate that so much. I understand he's gone back

to private law practice now, but we appreciate he ... what he did and his

staff in givin' us a help in preparing' and getting' this to where the General

Assembly could pass it.

B: It takes a lot of people working together for a common cause to do anything,

doesn't it?

M: It certainly does and one of the things that I'd like to impress here is

cooperation. Cooperation, with good relationship, and uh, I feel like that we

have, we have that among our people and I've got good cooperation in all of

my undertakin's.







21

LUM 49A

B: Right.

M: Everything hasn't been completely satisfactory to everyone, and it wouldn't

do for that to be true. If anything fitted everybody then I'd want to

question it.

B: Right. I don't think, well, not ... not even everybody accepts free salva-

tion, do they?

M:t. That's right. Well, we're in the form now of writing annual report; however,

we've only been in operation for seven months, but I'm in the process of

writing up an annual report, uh, giving in detail as much as possible what

we've done up til now, and what we're doin' and what we anticipate. This

must be prepared to go to theGeneral Assembly to make sure that we get this

budget that we have in for passed.

B: That's great.

M: Now Mr. Barton, if you don't ... if you don't have something' else in particu-

lar that you'd like to ask me about, I feel like that in a very weak way we've

pretty well covered the most important things that I've been associated with,

and had a part in, since my term in office began, and the seven months that

I've been withthe North Carolina Commission of Indian Affairs.

B: Well, that's certainly great! I would i like to ask you just a few more

questions if I may. I know how very valuable your time is and we appreciate

it so much, but this is for alot of people and it can do alot of good I think.

M: yes.

B: I think it's a worthy program. I did want to ask you something about your

early life, your schooling, where you attended school, and uh, your degree,

and honors, and various things that have happened to you---we don't want to

miss anything.

M: Well, feller bein' sixty years old, why it's been a long time since he entered

school, but I went to what is known as New Hopes up here for a short while.








22

LUM 49A

Then we ...

B: Is that the site, the original site of what is now Pembroke State University?

M: That's the original site. A little ... a wood building' there.

B: That's right.

M: We moved bein' farmers from the east side of Pembroke to the west side,

and then I went to what is known as the Chavis school over there. In a

building in a section where there were alot of Chavis people and we called

it the Chavis school.

B: Was this a one-room ... school?

M: No, there were two rooms in this one. Two rooms, Then after a short, after

some three or four years there, uh, I went to what is now Pembroke Elemen-

tary School. We know it, we knew it as the Pembroke Graded School.

B: Um, uhuh.

M: But it's really an elementary school, and that's what is is today. I wouldn't

remember the years, this and that and the other, because back then alot of

our people were i4school a while and they'd have get out and stay out a while
Ior/rk A-o
and get a little something to go back with and ...

B: Right.

M: ... and sorter your ... your way along and ... I finished elementary there

and then went over to the Old Main building that we have in question now.

That there's been alot of talk about recently--lot of pictures of it run

through the paper. So I went over there and finished my high school work.
Ft II
And got about two years in normal work. Then I went to the Army, and when I

came back from the Army, and married with a family, it had changed over into

a college -- a four year college, so I went and did four years of college

k there after I was married and along with the building' and the timbering

I went into the classroom and taught for about twenty years. I came out

of the classroom last April, uh, in the middle of the month uh, to take








23

LUM49A

over this executive position of the North Carolina Commission of Indian Affairs.

Now with his Indian Commission, uh, Mr. Barton, and 44,000 Indian people

in the eastern part here, with an office in Raliegh and an office in Pem-

broke, those two offices a hundred miles a part, of course I feel like that I'm

going to have to let the mayor ship go, if I hold to the executive director's

position in this North Carolina Commission of Indian Affairs. I might have

to let it go anyw-y, you know, that would depend on the vote of the people.

But as it is ....

B: Well, I'm sure u have that.

M: As it ... thank Iou ... as it is, and right now I have more on me than I

really need. Because there are many things that I need to personally give

my attention to, and I just cannot C to all of them. However, I'm pleased

to have had the privilege to have been here with you and make this tape and

give what information I've been able to give about the town of Pembroke

and to tell you as much as I've been able to tell ya up until now about the

North Carolina Commission of Indian Affairs. Let me say again we just

getting it off the ground and getting it started. I'm the complete staff --

one. And of course with this budget goin' through and with these other

organizations that we're expecting' right away to be funded I feel like that

it will be a great asset to everybody in the state and especially to the

Indian people of the state of North Carolina. We thank you for your time

uh, so much.

B: And we thank you for the Doris Duke Foundation and the University of Florida.

You've been very kind to grant us this interview and it's been a most in-

teresting and enlightening interview and we thank you very much.

M: Thank you.





Full Text

PAGE 1

LUM 49A Barton interview w/ Earlie B. Maynor 12/18/72 SLW --typist B: -t Th~s is Lew Ba~on recording for the Doris Duke American Indian Oral History Program. This is December 18, 1972. I am in my home in Pembroke, North Carolina and with me is Mayor Earlie B. Maynor. Is that right? What is tk2t "B." for in your name, Mayor? M: That's for "Broncia". Earlie Bronc:itt,'Maynor. B: How do you spell that middle name? M: B-r-o-n-c-i-a. B: I see. M: Earlie Broncia Maynor. B: Well, I've been wanting to interview you for this progtam for a long, long time because you're certainly a central figure among the Lumbee Indians. We're all very proud of you and your work and we certainly want other people to know about it, and I'd like to ask you something first of all about your personal biography, you know, your family. How old are you now? M~ I'm 59 years old;come February the 24th, if I'm still livin', I'll be 60. And I believe that, counts up to about 3/5 of a century. B: Right! The time really goes by. And tell us something about your family if you would--your father and your mother. 'Course I know them, or knew them M: Well, my •.. my mother and father were Mr. and Mrs. Willie D. Maynor and B: of course I lost my mother in 1950 at sixty-nine years of age, and I lost my father three years ago at 95. They were farmers all of their lives--church goin' people, and they stood well in the community in which they lived. Yes, I'm sure of that. Your father was especially well-known with church

PAGE 2

2 LUM 49A work and your brothers and ... I know some of your brothers. Uh, how many were in your family, Mayor? M: There were four boys and two girls. We have two boys, t':ATo of the brothers have gone on and there's two brothers and two sisters yet. Four of us still living. B: Uh, huh. Would you mind us telling us the names of those who are surviving? M: Miss .•. Mrs. Bill Thompson, Mrs. Alverti Jacobs, The Reverend Roy W. Maynor, and myself, Earlie B. Maynor. B: Yes, sir. You've been active in some many areas I hnrdly know where to start. But I think perhaps you begin in the teaching profession and then your church work first of all. Maybe your church work even befnre your school work, is that right? M: Yes, as we mentioned about my father there, he carried us to church all of our lives and of course that came first with us~and. then bu.iloc, farmers in the beginning and I went a timber business, of course, we were number of years-B: Um, huh. M: I then went .•.. after going and pullin' a good long period in the United States Army, being discharged then, I came back and finished my college work, and wen into the profession of teaching. B: Um, huh. M: And I taught for a number of years. Presently now I am stillJof course)the mayor of the town of Pembroke and executive director for a newly established organization in the state of North Carolin'l, .,. namely the North Carolina Commission of Indian Affairs. B: Yes, sir. M: I'm executive director of that at the present time. And we'll talk about either one you prefer first, the commission or the mayorship.

PAGE 3

3 LUM 49A B: Well, we certainly want to cover that ground. I was just wondering if there were any details orl will g'1/Jpermanent file we missed on your personal biography because this in the University libraries, and could you give us the dates you were in service and which branch of service you were in? M: Well, I went in in June of 1942, and came out in July, 1945. B: Um, huh. M: And of course I served with the United States Army in the artillery and also in the medical aid department. Uh, I never did get overseas, but it was very essential for some to remain here and prepare and set up that were necessary for those to serve on foreign soil. B: Yes, sir. the things M: So I served in the Medics in the service as well as in the Field Artillery, uh, while I was in the U. S. Army. B: Um, huh. I remember, if you'll excuse this personal injection, when JIOU were deciding to run for mayor, you and I had a conversation, and you said, "Well, Brother Barton, I'm praying about it and whichever way the Lord leads me," him you says, "that's the way 1'11-go." And says, --You can depend on / because I was one of the people who wanted you to run. M: Um, huh. B: And uh, what year was that? Do you rem--? M: Um, that was •.. '66. B: '66. I remember it ; very well and I know you did run and you did you did go over well, and you came to be considered a man of the people and you~re still considered as the people's man, and uh, 'course I've always been very proud of that-of having known you and maybe you could tell us something about your experiences since you became mayor of Pembroke.

PAGE 4

4 LUM 49A M: Well, first of all, Mr. Barton, let me say that I have always appreciated you and your interest in people and the welfare of everyone and especially the way you felt about me. I know that you have supported me through these years in every election and as you forestated there I did give it much con sidieration before I decided to shoulder the responsibility if it was the will of the people. And it was sorta hard for me to get out of .it because I had been consulted about it for eight years and finally some of my friends called me in and they stuck the filing fee in my pocket and says, "You go file, and uh, we'll put you in office. 'YMu won't even have to work for it." But I came 6 to the conclusion before I did accept it that I'd give it what I had and seek the guidance of the Almighty in performin' the duties that I was sure I would be faced with. And as a result, I feel like that it's helped me as well as many of our people--in the town of Pembroke. I feel that we have ac complished many things. One of the most important things were the upgrading of the water and sewer--two items that anyf municipality must have. It's im possible to get along without it and ours just weren't sufficient. So one of the first things we did after we got in office and surveyed the overall situation. We began to look for monies to help us out in this affair and I took the clerk and part of the board and we went immediately to Raleigh. And went to the co-ordinator for the state of Norht Carolina that has to do with EDA funds. And of course he was nice enough, Mr. Charles S. Edwards, to come to Pembroke and help us file the appication. And after this in eleven months, we were given in the form of a grant by the Federal.Government $215,000, B: Um, huh. M: And of course we matched that money and they also loaned us that at_an interest rate of 4 ]/4% , which I thought was very good. And of course we've upgraded the water and sewer to where we've been able to meet the demands of our university, namely Pembroke State University.

PAGE 5

5 LUM 49A At that time I believe we had about six to eight hundred students. Now I believe it's somewehre in the area of two thousand. B: Yes. M: Just today we contracted the engineers that~ looked after this upgrading for us before and they've consented to come in a period of thirty days and observe the situation agin for us and write a proposal in order that we might be able to gather at least another~lf a million dollars to continue and expand more yet our water and sewer facilities. It's very demanming that we have this simply because we have according to my knowledge, one of the most outstanding univeristies in the state--in the United States, and it's de manding much from the town. And we feel that it's our duty and our responsi bility to stay sorta ahead of the game. We're lookin' ahead now uh, several years. We we have been assured that if we get a half a million dollars or more that the Federal Government will pay 55% of it and that the state will pay 25%; this will give us 80% of the cost of it and that will lighten it very much on the taxpayers of the town of Pembroke. Now we •.. we have done many other things there ifine with this but I feel like this is the most urgent and the most outstanding accomplishement that we've made since we've been in this office here because now and that number of people-we have students there from New York to Florida-we have students from the West and it's real a great asset and a / service to not only the Indian people of this area, but to one and all that will come and indulge in the educational facilities of Pembroke State Univeristy. I'll tell you, I'm •.. I'm very pleased with the overall operation. On this campus we've had ~any new buildings constructed recently, and I understand that the potential is about as great as ever for a continuation of this same sort of thing. B: Um, huh. And the town has worked hand in harid with the university, hasn't it? M: We've been very close in every respect--good understanding, good relationship,

PAGE 6

5 LUM 49A and I feel like that there's not another university in the in the United States that have had a better relationship and have gotten along any better than the people of the university and especially the students and the original people of the immediate area. B: Um, huh. And the town the town has always has always furnished these facilities for the institution. This has bee--, this has come down to us down through the years, has it not? I mean it's sort of a traditional thing, isn't it? M: Well, for a few . for a while there, they did have a water tank up there that weren't suffieien~ and the operation was such that they realized that they'd come out b~tter to allow the town of Pembroke to furnish these utilities for them. So we've been
PAGE 7

6 LUM 49A in a sense/a part of it and I had to sign some of the papers. And we expectin' that to be opened up and runnin' pretty well in full operation within the first thirty days of 1973. B: That's certainly great because employment is so very important to this de e,,, pressed area here in Rob/son County. M: Also in line wli.th this plant that we're speakin' about, I'll tell ya a little more in detail on it there, B: Good. M: We're gain' to have one hundred sewin' machines installed. And that will work a hundred of our women. We' 11 have some maintenance help in there and chances are some cutters and some packagin' and there'll be a office crew. I don't know if if we don't be a workin' in this new plant at least 150 people. And I I ' ~1 1 d . h h. I f 1 1k h h. m certai y p ease wit tis. ee i et at tis will be one of the greatest assests to this immediate area right here, namely Pembroke, shich I take to be the capital city of the Indian people, the Lumbee Indian people of RobJ'son County and surrounding areas. This might be deviated a little bit, but listen to I just want to mention it. If you'll notice every Sunday our streets and highways in and around the little town of Pem/1 II broke here are just corroded with people--it's bumper on bumper and it's that way all the evening. I'm glad because our Lumbee Indian people feel this way about Pembroke, North Carolina. B: That's great. You don't believe you don't think there's any animosity well, on our part anyway toward anybody do you mayor? M: No, . I feel like that we're a peace-lovin' people and let me say again:the re lationship in the town of Pembroke and the surrounding areas with three races here, the black, and the Indian and the white, and then with the different personalities that we have comin' to our area from across the state to attend the university, uh, I feel like that we've had excellent relationship, and I'm

PAGE 8

7 LUM 49A certainly thankful for that. B: It's cert--, it's certainly encouraging uh, there's so many things that we could talk about , but I want you to feel free to discuss the things which are important to you because you're ... you're close to the •.. activities, all the activities of the Indian community, I think. M: I just like to talk here, Mr. Barton, a minute about another project~we have in the town of Pembroke that we're pleased to have and the need was very great for it .• And that is a housing project. B: Um, huh. M: We have in in our town here under construction now a housing project and sometimes I try to say it in a way that everybody will understand because some of us are country people and some are city people, but this project is ..• is 70 homes. And I don't know, tell you the truth, I~'t know how many families it will really take care of, but it cost $1,360,000. And this is some, -fltreJ I/ . 11 reffered to by me as sixteen acres of homes---sixteen acres of homes. And the thing that is so pleasing about it-those people that are old, those people that have been under-privileged, and haven't had a chance in life, and many of them now that would sleep cold if it weren't for this, and wouldn't have a comfortable place through the daytime even to rest. those that have passed the age of being able to render service, they come first in being able to get into these homes. And you know, that that makes me feel good be cause so many people today have never had to suffer and they don't know what it is to suffer and to not have a good, warm comfortable place)especially in cold weather. B: Right. M: to sleep and to stay, and this just thrills me to know that we've got uni/ II der,: construction sixteen acres of homes. Now B: That's wonderful. ------------------------------------------------------~

PAGE 9

8 LUM 49A M: We've put in for another 300 such give you what you ask for. homes You know they don't always B: Right. M: We asked for 200 and got 70. We've asked for 300 and this time we've got 75. This is being processed, which will be a contination in the area of B: present housing that we're dealin' with at the /time. So when we get along with this seventy, severtty-five more, along~h the other homes that are bein' built in town by contractors and individual builders, I feel like that it won't be we'll long before I\ have our housing pretty well under control. Yes, sir. How about the appearance of Indian homes in the area. Do they compare favorably with those of other groups, people from other ethnic groups? M: Well, I think, I think we're a little above the average. Now I was on the Cherokee reservation in the western part of the state a little better than a week ago and I didn't go in and look, but to observe it looked to me that they Ct
PAGE 10

9 LUM 49A M: Yes, uh, huh. Yes. Unlessin' there's a few some place that I don't know about, and 'course I got a rundown on the census just recently and I find {fvJr there's only three or four counties in the whole state that don't have at least one Indian. Some of 'em have only one, or two. B: Well, you know, that's interesting. M: That is interesting. And if I I'm gonna try to remember to mail you one of these packets that I made up with the Indian Commission. Before we get off of this let me mention one other project; now in this upgrading of water and sewer we put in one water tank. And all of this past stuff the Federal Gov ernment paid half of it for us. But we're comin' up now with another water tank to increase pressure yet, which :cill give us three high-rise water tanks in our municipality here of 1982 r,ua; course the university on the on the rim here of the city puts many of their people on us for a period of time so we do have many more than 1982 that we're supplyin' the need. But we have a third water tank that's bein' put up to increase pressure for industry that's here, for industry that's comin'now, and for industry we expect to come later. And this tank we'll set on a two-acre tract of land that the town of Pembroke owns, but the Federal Government will pay the full price for it. It won't rost the Indian. theB.fack, nor the white taxpayer in the town of Pembroke and the surrounding area any extra tax~ B: Well, that's great. M: This is another somethin' that sorta thrills me and we're not out a'lookin' for handouts or lookin' for somethin' that we're not entitled to, but I felt like that our area was entitled to the things that we've gone out and got and we're entitled to more and we're by no chance stoppin'; we're still movin' in that direction and trying to gather that which it would take to sustain for the needs of our people in this immediate area. B: Well. that's certainly encouraging, a~d I think everybody ought to know about

PAGE 11

10 LUM 49A the advancements that the town is making and we're certainly glad to have you tell us about it, because naturally you know more about it than just about anybody else. How about how about the racial division in the town itself? We have ..• we know we have all three races and this is something some people don't generally know about, but what percentage, do you have you any idea as to what the percentage is or? I I II I I II M: We've got ... it's just about 85% Indian, about 5% black, and 10% white. B: Uh, huh. That's in the town proper. M: In the town of Pembroke. B: That doesn't count the University? M: No, hu, uh. We've got also in the town of Pembroke another somethin' that might be interested in the government. We've got all races on our boards. And on our police force we've got Indian and white. It's been open for the black, but no one has come uh, for a position as a policeman. Now we have a ABC Board, we have a Housing Authority Board, we have a zonin' board, and the we have a board the town commissioners, / governin' body of the entire town. Along with myself, and the relationship to me seems to be just excellent with all of those boards, with the governin' body, with the fire departmentand it seems to' me like the operation is overall very successful. In other words, I'm delighted with it when I read and learn about what goes on 6 in some of the other smaller municipalities, even in the state of North Carolina. B: This is certainly interesting because~h the percentage of Indians being M: B: M: B: as high as it is the Indians could absolutely control public offices and shut out other groups if if they were so minded. That could easily be done. But this has never happened, has it? No, we'll we'll have better relationship when we respect all races. Right,

PAGE 12

11 LUM 49A M: And do that which is just, honest, and acceptable. B: Right. Right. In other words we're more democratic than most people realize, aren't we? M: I think so, yes. Yes, we definitely are. B: And this is Christian too. It's certainly encouraging. Well, I don't mean to interrupt you always, but I M: This is good, we want this because the more questions you ask, the more in detail I can go and/elif chances are,bring more of the things out that would be really and truly interesting to the people that ha\e never been in this area. And again let me say we do have all three races here--we, we livin' in the same municipality ; we have all three races in various positions, even though the Indian is far ahead so far as percent or number is concerned. In our municipality her we have all three races that have business or at least the Indian and white. Our ... our colored people are so few until we wouldn't expect too much from them; they're, they're very few. In fact I believe in number, one count I had of it, was thirty-odd. B: Just thirty-odd •.. M: Yeah, that would be even less than 5%, a whole lot but I didn't want to be I didn't want to give them less than they really were. B: Yes,sir. M: Now we might come back to this but since we're we're speakin' about housin' there and this sort of thing, I'd like to f .ltl f" this now and sorta tie it with the North Carolina Commission of Indian Affairs. B: Right. That's a great idea. M: We we we've travelled over the state and especially the eastern part of the state; I mentioned a while ago about goin' to Cherokee, but their a reservated Indian and they have a direct line into the Federal Government.

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12 LUM 49A They have a connection that the non-reservated Indian don't have. And we are non-reservated on the eastern shore here, and in the housing area, we've gone to, to difeerent county seats and carried in carpenters that to the FHA and got set-ups there for people to get homes built much easier. We've got a set-up in process that will pay a portion of afty indivivual's home~ if his income is not what they feel like it ought to be. And in the town of Pembroke here, I talked to the Brooks boys over there and to a Mr. Sam Kerns that looks after the housin_' and I've been workin' with him on this. There's other people over the state that are doin' the same kind of work, and he told { me~the number of homes several months ago that they had built, were buildin', and would built that had been traded for was somewheres above ninety.,. B: Right M: for underpriveleged people out there that otherwise wouldn't have had a home. B: Um, huh. Was the program a little late in gettin' started or did it start about on schedule or what? I really don't know --the housing program. M: Now you're talkin' about the commission housin'? B: I'm talkin' about the housin' here in Pembroke. M: Oh. Well, the housin' here in Pembroke--you know, a big operation like that you take $1,360, 000 worth of homes or sixteen acres and you're dealin' with the Federal Government there, they can set a date as a general rule.As a general rule, it's hard to get right in on that date. There was some things with some of the sub-contractors, to begin with that held it up, I know what thinkin' about, it appears to be off schedule but there was someone under contract and they didn't perform satisfactorily and they had to make some changes B: Right. M: And in makin' these changes, it throwd it behind sometime, and of course these things will happen all over. But now along with this we do have a

PAGE 14

13 LUM 49A state operation that's reachin' out into the areas and findin' the people that are livin' in homes with holes through the floor in some places and leaks in the top and we're able to help many of these people get decent homes to live in. B: That's wonderful. I ... I certainly hope it continues. Y&u know my wife worked with into the poverty program for a while and I heard her talk:'1t, about going ./1~ fur homes, uh, you know, among ___ races, M: Im, huh, yes. B: poor people where they didn't even have a cook stove, M: Uh, huh. B: 'Course these are extreme cases. M: Yes. B: But this is all so encouraging and what do you envision for the Commission on Indian Affairs in North Carolina? M: We're going to get grants, and we're going to get helf to set up programs, 11 ~Ji CU'\ I and we're going to have what is known as an @ftdirrg desk, and this is just going to be another agent, sorta like community relationship, sorta like good neighbor council, uh, it's going to be another agency in the area that will promote livelihood in many respects for the people. I'll tell ya, I'll tell you one thing there now, when I was hired executive director they didn't tell me what to do, but the bylaws and the bill itself mentioned recreation, and housin' and so =orth. And on the ..• in the field of recreation we're deviatin' a little bit but let me reach back to the municipality here on re creation and then we'll go back to the commission. In the town of Pembroke here we just about finiahed up a very unique Little League park, I like to call it, here in the teg'n of Pembroke, fixed up with good lightin' ' a good fence around it, good buildin's, good bleachers, and the Federal Government paid half of the cost of that. We have another park area here

PAGE 15

14 LUM 49A that we're workin' on now, the lawyer is processin' the papers, and the land for this particular park in our town here will be given. And of ~,.;" course uh, uh, the Federal Government~~ill give the value of that land in money to develop it. B: Um, huh. M: Alright, let's reach back now to the Indian Commission. In the Indian Com mission when theyhired me and I didn't know just what to do, but I went right out and the first place I went to was this International Paper Company, which is a big organization. 5',o'
PAGE 16

15 LUM 49A B: Halifax County, and do the same thing up there. , 1'< 1 lov,1,,\-i . For the _r ____ Indian. M: That's right. And of course we're going to be getting these things lirgely for the Indian people. B: Um, huh. M: We, we wouldn't dare block anybody else out but when you go in an area where I I 11 there's pretty well nothin' but Indians, then you can call it Indian. B: Right. You know, this is the first time you were, you were employed originally with a brand-new organization, and uh, oicourse you had to start from scratch, everything new has to start from scratch, but could you tell us a little something about how the North Carolina Commission on Indian Affairs came into existence, since it is fairly new? M: Yes, well, I odn't hardly know where scratch is at, but we started and ... we, we got together and wrote a bill several times and carried it in, and it, they let it down. Some of the ~iii, some o'the others, mostly worked on this, now I didn't put much time in it. B: Yes, sir. M: And on about the third time we just got together and we had people from all over and we went up and we went into a caucus with members of the Ge~eral Assembly. B: Um, huh. M: And uh, after we had gone through discussion after discussion, asked ques tions and answered questions, I know I got out of my bed one night and drove all the way to Raleigh, better than a hundred miles, and we had a meeting there 'til 2:30 in the morning, som 7 thing like that; then in a ~us the r;.c: ~r \(,i next day with members of the
PAGE 17

16 LUM 49A & scratch, and really scratch, the~only appropriated $25,000 for a bi-7nnium-two years, and they, they were about to get out and not do that, but we took that $25,000 and waited til ten months of the two years had passed, and then we broke it down and got what we could and we've moved with that. I'm the only one on the staff--paid. And of course another one of~he things that I'm pushin' for, besides recreation is a budget--state budget. B: Um, huh. M: I've gone through the important people there in gettin' this budget set up. We, we've asked for a change in budget--from $25,000 to$ 200,000. That B: Um, huh. Do you feel optimistic about it? M: Oh, I feel good! Now you take our budget advisor uh, member, Mr. Gardner, I had explained this thing to just about everyone on the budget adv--~ budget connnittee. And he told me that when he presented it there weren't one question asked about it. The B: That's great. passed it. M" 'Course now when the pass it uh, it goes into the General Assembly, and the General Assembly is the one that says whether we have it or not--the final say on it. But I think maybe the General Assembly will take what they've said when I borught them up to date on things we were
PAGE 18

17 LUM 49A some of the people you know who were responsible for the ideas, or those you remember and those responsible for bringing it into existence--this would certainly be helpful because this commission is not going to end as you and I both know, it{s going to grow. I share your optimism there/ and it is working out. M: Let me come back to that in just a minute when I finish about this budget. I might forget that. B: Alright. M: As has been forestated twice I believe I'm the only one on pay, but when this budget goes through then we're going to put people out in the field. Educationalist specialists, research workers, uh, people in general, to help in findin' the needs where that we can be useful to relieve my ' Side 2 and that will B: This is Side 2 of the tape of the interview with Mayor Maynor. And I'm sorry we were interrupted there by coming to the end of the tape. But I hope you can pick up where you were. M: That's ... that's to be expected. We we were ready for that. Now when we get enough of people on staff that somethin' will b~acomin' across the desk to entertain pretty well all of my time. Then of course I will spend that time in Raleigh. But up until now I've had to get out in the field and travel far and near and make personal contacts to get f1tt this thing moving as far as we have gotten it already. Now let me reach back to the question you asked here auout the beginners. Uh, tell you the truth, this thing started several years ago. John Wheeley Oxendine, Hilton Oxendine, and seem to be like 1 Horace Locklear, who is our attorney now, and Herman Dial and there was a few others; this was several years ago made an attempt at it.

PAGE 19

18 LUM 49A B: Um,huh. M: They got together and had a meeting over there and it just didn't work. Then later on Bruce Jones, Ruth Roberts, W. J. Strickland, uh, Bill Loughery, Shirley Loughery, uh, and there's several others that had a part in it B: Um, huh. M: .•. from this area; from the Columbus County area we had Priscilla Jacobs, PreetKtt-4-t ne-t..&,I'~ Cliff Rt!fymtJnd and Mrs. 'lbymoas. and there's some others from that area that ')t. tt t'\ I don't know their names, that's the $, 0 u Indian area; up in Sampson County we had o rv"' Dolphusl]N\"' , we had James L. Jacobs, and we had Mrs. Dolphus Broynton , that really took a part in it, in preparin' it and makin' it ready. We had up in Warren and Halifax County W. R. Richardson, the chief up there, and Herbert Richardson, and a Mr. McGhee, and uh ... B: Bill McGhee? M: Bill McGhee, and there's several others I I don't remember/right off )their names, along with folks like our Indian Commissioner, Brantley Blue in Wash ington, D. C., and fellas like Tom Oxendine, and Mr. Sweat, uh, that Pernell that's in Washington also with HEW; Mrs. Helen Shurveck and there's many others that were interested in it and got behind it and put their shoulder to the wheel and pushed on if and of course by so doing after this group made the second stab at it, they passed it, and I think it's one of the most out standin' and will be one of the greatest assets that the state has realized. B: Uh, yessir.-M: Because we've got one agency, lfsten to this, we've got one agencyl LRDA, Lumbee Regional Development Associates• I was in the office there this morning, -fhey've had several fundings from the Federal Government. I don't remember the total number, amount of money but the last fundin' they got, or grant, was $210,000. B: Um, huh.

PAGE 20

19 LUM 49A M: I was able ... B: You were associated with that also aren't you, Mayor? M: Yes, well, these organizations come within the range of the Indian Commission. B: Yes, sir. M: I was in there this morning and he has forty-five on his staff, workin' now. B: M: Now the good thing about this, this is not state money, but this is Federal money that's comin' into the state because of the Indian Commission. S;oUXttY\ Along with that, the other threelareas that I just mentioned the _____ , Co h6Lr i e.. 1-1() /low~,., the ______ , and the ,!!.a] iwa.Y., we have the same kind of organization set . ; I\Cor t ort:t+; ot\ up there. I personal~} took the articles of ....eoo erBtioa and carried them to~ad "z.wejj•sfffice, the Secretary of State. The lawyer and myself went through them and made sure that they were correct and they've been registered or recorded with the state. The bylaws as a non-profit organi zation has been accepted. Now these three other areas are ready to write proposals and get funded the same way from the Federal Government to carry on different programs in their area. And this is under the North Carolina Commission of Indian Affairs. B: Um, uh. Now who um, we, we'd like to say a word if we /lmay, about the ones who , our statesmen who you know had the job of pushing it through the Gen eral Assembly. Would you mind mentioning the names of the people, you know, who, who sorta pushed it through the General Assembly, our statesmen from this area, who were ? M: Yes, um, huh. We had a,_.Mr. McFadden from •.. representative from Scotland County, the L~1.ttl\h IA~~ea; and we have we had a Mrs. Mary Odum, that was right behind it from the Assembly, a member of it; we had Mr. Gus Spiro, another representative that was very inte-rested in it, and the ReverenJJoey V --------

PAGE 21

20 LUM 49A -::[o h t\S Ct') J~ from Fairmont, •.. B: Um, huh. M: He's a black man but an excellent man; he's a minister, pastor of two churches, and he gave it everything that he had. I feel like that he's more responsible than anyone else for the $25,000 that we got to operate with even though it was a very meager sum. B: It was hard to get that, wasn't it? M: It was. And he ... he stood his ground, and he spoke up and they gave it to us and out of that $25,000 we've bought office equipment, got our offices set B: up, and we've had enough money to to buy other things that we had to have as well, as pay me my salary and pay me mileage and uh, uh, for meals and this sort of thing when I was a long ways from home. So I'll tell ya, I feel like that those four people there in particular, since they are from our area, were very interested in it and they really and truly wanted to see it passed. And I'll have to say, and put it in tape here, that I do appreciate it and many th!anks to those people. Now we had a Mr. Irvin V Aldridge, that was with the Department of Local Affairs there in Raleigh and some of his staff that played a mightly big hand in helpin' us to get this agency se~ up. And we appreciate that so much. I understand he's gone back to private law practice now, but we appreciate he what he did and his staff in givin' us a help in preparin' and gettin' this to where the General Assembly could pass it. It takes a lot of people working together doesn't it? for a common cause to do anything, M: It certainly does and one of the things that I'd like to impress here is cooperation. Cooperation, with good relationship, and uh, I feel like that we have, we have that/among our people and I've got good cooperation in all of my undertakin's.

PAGE 22

21 LUM 49A B: Right. M: Everything hasn't been completely satisfactory to everyone, and it wouldn't B: do for that to be true. If anything fitted everybody then I'd want to question it. Right. I don't think, well, not •.. not even everybody accepts free salvation, do they? M:t That's right. Well, we're in the form now of writing annual report; however, we've only been in operation for seven months, but I'm in the process of writing up an annual report, uh, giving in detail as much as possible what we've done up til now, and what we're
PAGE 23

22 LUM 49A Then we B: Is that the site, the original site of what is now Pembroke State University? M: B: M: That's the original site. A little That's right. a wood buildin' there. We moved)bein' farmers /from the east side of Pembroke to the west side, and then I went to what is known as the Chavis ~hool over there. In a buildin', in a section where there were alot of Chavis people and we called it the Chavis ~chool. B: Was this a one-room school? M: No, there were two rooms in this one. Two rooms, Then after a short, after some three or four years there, uh, I went to what is now Pembroke Elementary School. We know it, we knew it as the Pembroke Graded School. B: Um, uhuh. M: But it's really an elementary school, and that's what is is today. I wouldn't remember the years, this and that and the other, because back then alot of our people were ir{school a while and they'd have get out and stay out a while Work h, and/1.get a little something to go back with and .•. B: Right. M: and sorter your ... your way along and •.. I finished elementary there and then went over to the {J1d Main buildi~ that we have in question now. That there's been alot of talk about recently--lot of pictures of it run through the paper. So I went over there and finished my high school work. If II And got about two years infMormal work. Then I went to the Army, and when I came back from the Army, and married with a family, it had changed over into a college -a four year college, so I went and did four years of college Qk there after I was married and along with the buildin' and the timbering I went into the classroom and taught for about twenty years. I came out of the classroom last April) uh, in the middle of the month uh, to take

PAGE 24

23 LUM49A over this executive position of the North Carolina Commission of Indian Affairs. Now with this Indian Commission, uh, Mr. Barton, and 44,000 Indian people in the eastern part here, with an office in Raliegh and an office in Pembroke, those two offices a hundred miles a part, of course I feel like that I'm going to have to let the mayor ship go, if I hold to the executive director's \....I position in this North Carolina Commission of Indian Affairs. I might have to let it go anyw~y, you know, that would depend on the vote of the people. But as it is ..... B: Well, I'm sure lfu have that. M: As it thank,,ou •.. as it is, and right now I have more on me than I really need. Because there are many things that I need to personally give my attention to, and I just cannot~ to all of them. However, I'm pleased to have had the privilege to have been here with you and make this tape and give what information I've been able to give about the town of Pembroke and to tell you as much as I've been able to tell ya up until now about the North Carolina Commission of Indian Affairs. Let me say again we just .getting it off the ground and getting it started. I'm the complete staff one. And of course with this budget goin' through and with these other organizations that we're expectin' right away to be funded I feel like that it will be a great asset to everybody in the state and especially to the Indian people of the state of North Carolin"-t,, We thank you for your time uh, so much. B: And we thank you for the Doris Duke Foundation and the University of Florida. You've been very kind to grant us this interview and it's been a most in teresting and enlightening interview and we thank you very much. M: Thank you.