Citation

## Material Information

Title:
Interview with J. Sam Fouts October 15 1974
Creator:
Fouts, J. Sam ( Interviewee )
Language:
English

## Subjects

Subjects / Keywords:
WRUF ( Radio station : Gainesville, Fla.)
Ted Burrow Tapes
WRUF Collection (Ted Burrowâ€™s Tapes) Oral History Collection ( local )

## Notes

Funding:
This text has been transcribed from an audio or video oral history. Digitization was funded by a gift from Caleb J. and Michele B. Grimes.

## Record Information

Source Institution:
Samuel Proctor Oral History Program, Department of History, University of Florida
Holding Location:
This interview is part of the 'WRUF' collection of interviews held by the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program of the Department of History at the University of Florida
Rights Management:
Resource Identifier:
WRUF 011 ( SPOHP IDENTIFIER )

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SAMUEL PROCTOR ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM at
the University of Florida

WRUF 17A WRUF Studios

Sub: Robert W. "Bob" Leach

Int: Ted Burrows

Oct. 15, 1974

Page 1

T: ..... from the past up to the present. I talked to Ralph Nimm/ns over in

Jacksonville back in August. Tell you what, let me perch on this little chair

if you don't mind. I'll leave this whatever it is.

B: That's our banner.

T: Oh yeah. And I started with the... the real early people and I'm working my way

up to the present. Um, first thing I'm interested in is uhand since I already

know the dates of your employment here, I was just wondering, how you first

got the job here? How did you get interested in radio?

B: Well...

T: How'd you persuade the Major to give you a job?

B: Well it really wasn't the Major so much as I uh.... I had already always been

interested in music. Fooling around with it, getting a lot of it, and playing

a lot of it. And uh.... so I went in the service in feity-three... and came

out in fertLy b And I didn't even know what I wanted to 4e. Started in

school a little while and didn't like that too much. I really wasn't too settled,

so / ha I4' got a job down at the .53 Ile building uh up in the eleventh

floor, 1h working for the National Bureau of Standards. Uh wor... actually

it's the 'University of Florida but the National Bureau of Standards

gives cce-,4 a grant r gives them a grant to work on this secret project

they had up there. It was electronic work and it ... I was a technician out in

the service I was a radar mechanic. And so if ... I did that for about uh......

oh til about f-eauynoen I guess. And uh.... I met in the course of working

up there I met Avga. who was....

T: Oh he's one of the engineers. Yes.

WRUF 17A 2

B: Done some engineering out here for RUF and before that. But he he was a graduate

and he'd he'd work there I think as a student. Done some graduate work there

so uh. In fooling around the lab with the PA systems and different things I used

to just y# know make jokes with uh fake announcements and things like that.

T: Oh yeah.

B: f6(('uco said why didn't I try out for WRUF and I said well I didn't ya know S

not really very good. And then this job was really a a dead end for me up there

because I didn't have a degree in engineering..and just couldn't do much. So...

I really didn't like it too well so I went out uh to RUF. They were holding

auditions out there at the time uhich was in the old the old building there.
-7
And uh.... Sual Brown was uh doing the auditions. See I went to school with

Sual, high school. And Otfis had just come back from uh...

T: From Dallas?

B: From Dallas at the time. So he was he was helping out too. He was helping out

in the auditions. And I auditioned and they they liked it. Although I had

a pretty bad southern accent at the time. Uh but they they thought that could

be overcome so .... Uh there wasn't that many students in school& I I don't

really think that with the talent that I had at that time, I don't rezsly think

that I could have really competed against the talent that is in Florida now;

7hat did come up here cause we turn away a lot of good people.

T: Was this kind of before the big uh rush in veterans came back?

B: Well there was quite a few veterans but uh I don't think the school had over....

I can't remember.just what the enrollment was. You can check on the figures.

T: Oh yeah that's right. The overall number was was low.

B: I think it was very low enrollment. There was no school of journalism and

communications at the time either. And so all that worked in my favor and0,, So

then they said they'd they'd hire me. Well, then there was no problem on

getting on the payroll. You just hung around. And that's what I did. I I

WRUF 17A
-3-

B: worked. I still worked at the Sea fe- building cause I couldn't quit the job.
ed
I need the money. And then I'd get out of the QCj(e- building at five o'clock

in the afternoon and I'd walk out to WRUF. I didn't have a car. And uh...
tc--
I'd stay there tillwe shut down at night, one o'clock Aven later. I'd do
oLL
anything you could do y/ know. I)I didn't do any air work for a long time. And

uh, we had FM just coming) getting ready. Well this.,,I guess this..,I di-d

it for awhile and then.,,It must have been four year.

T: FM came along in fnr.y t ght.
S98 ?
B: Enty-gt, yeah. And then we had FM studio so I started .. I started uh

records on .... on FM. No voice. And uh... so then after it was over I'd

walk home and I lived on the other side of Gainseville over near Waldo road. I

had to walk home and uh do the same thing everyday. And I did that for ... oh..

quite awhile and then uh I decided that I'd go back to school, which I did. And

just uh because they were gonna put me on thpayroll at at RUF. So I got on

the payroll at fifty dollars a month and.....

T: Was that for full time, like a forty hour week ..........

B: No no no no. It was just what our part-time students are working now. Whatever

you could work on the air yA know. So then I I started doing that and I had

a GI bill. So I stayed in school for about two and a half years I guess. And

uh .... all of the time really getting into announcing and really liking it.

Really liking radio and then and then it got to the point where I wo... the radio

had precedence over the school so I just dropped out.

.: You kind of made that choice... across the line.

B: So I dropped out of school and uh .... and the Major said he'd hired me full-time.

So he did and I was making uh..... a hundred and..... I started at a hundred and

fifty dollars a month, full-time.

T: Really getting' rich.

B: That's right. And then uh then uh.... let's seen in ff... that was about ft

WRUF 17A
-4-

B: or fifty-ene uh..... I got married' flirt time. I was making one seventy-five

a month then. And uh... so then I was chief announcer at that time. And we

had people compethrough then like Charlie Murdock. Under my...

T: Yeah. I got a tape back from Charlie. I)I sent him a letter and asked him to

record his memories on a tape and he sent me back.

B: And uh, so Charlie was one of them. Uh Whitey .......

T: Bob Smith was on the payroll at that time.

B: Bob Smith was there, veah right. He came in I think fifty-one or fol-y-iwo.

T: Yeah and then he left for awhile to go in the Air Force or whatever....

B: He didn't leave. He didn't leave to go in the Air Force till a good while later.

T: Yeah until about fi4y -ylu .

B: Yeah it was 4eA oreaC kf And then uh.... uh4... after that, let's see I

stayed here as chief announcer and then Ray Darzler was made the assistant to the

Major at the time. And... uh... then later on Danzler made me program director
<- I &l P OSrr-oV VY1 O1 r C-4-r>O
for what it was worth. See- that was E-em bor I was made t shortly

before we moved our studios from down'at the.old police station to over here. And...

then I stayed here as program director but uh not really knowing a great deal.

Uh I didn't know as much as I thought I knew. Uhit's like some of the students

today........

T: I don't think any of us ever does. (laugh)

B: That's about radios and rvn^-v les) Uh/l think they know they know

and so forth now than we did then. Because things weren't really that cut and

dry as far as programming was concerned. It's uh .... ya just kinda ....

T: Would you say programming back uh about the time you broke in wasn't really

very scientific. Well, it uh Ag see radio was just coming put of the the

golden era really where networks were really the big thing. And uh everything was

kind of a stilted type of uh of delivery. Nothing was relaxed and nothing was....
2

WRUF 17A
-5-

T: Yeah. It was very formal very......

B: Everything was very formal, yeah. And we were still in that in the throws of

that even in 50. Early 50's. But we were playing uht.. the good music and

looking down our nose at some of the new stars that were coming in like Elvis
arv\cd of \xr-.
Presley,, We did one show on uh on there called'the sweet pea swing club" and

it was the first rock and roll that Gainesville had. And I did that.

T: Was that an evening show?

B: No, it was an afternoon show. We used to do it fett--f-fteen in the afternoon.

T: In drive time.

B: In... yeah. Well they didn't have drive time.

T: Well, what we would...

B: At that time our class A time was at night after seven o'clock at night. That's

class A.

T: TV wasn't really big in this area.

B Not that big, right. Matter of fact uh... show you how far behind the station got

when Ken Small came here in 1956 he told me then that*--I wasn't here at the time,

I had already gone.--He told me then that they still... called class A time after

six o'clock at night. And class B time was anything after that. But he changed

that.

T: Right. That would've been even after the say the Jacksonville TV stations started

reaching over here.

B: Yeah, right. Yeah that's right because we were... Well I was watching. I can

remember watching television in f-tyou4r fifty-five before I left and went to
'5 'Sb
Key West which was late fifty five early fif-e-sc when I went down to Key West.

T: Yeah,

B: And uh.... stayed down there tillsixy-three and then came back and took the job

that Danzler had when I left. Uh I was assistant to Ken Small.

T: Actually when you came back, you you barely beat me back here. You had been back

WRUF 17A -6-

T: about a year I guess when I came up here as a student and uh....

B: Yeah. What year did you....

T: I came up here in sirty-fear but it wasn't until the fall of si4iy-Sour that

I got on the payroll.

B: Yeah. Yeah so I hadn't been there very long.

T: The early fifties must have been a really kind of a curioustime inlin radio.

I guess all over. Cause the network radio the network radio was on the down slide

as TV came up and local radio stations had to do more their own programming and....

B: Well, radio stations radio stations were really developing their own format. Uh,

stations like RUF, old line stations, uh really didn't wanna admit-that rock and

roll and that kind of music was the coming thing. G pko r- Ss
7:
T: You were saying something about uh WRUF as an old line station.7 Something

that you didn't wanna admit something. -

B: Oh as an old line station Didn't wanna really admit that uh people like Elvis

Presley and .....

T: Rock was here to stay...

B: Rock was the coming thing. And they just .... refused to admit it. Consequently uh,

RUF.still stayed number one in the marks for a long time. Then DVH came in and

I don't remember what year it was but I think it was somewhere around fifty-five

or f.ifty-is And they came in with uh they came irwith the rocks.

T: Yeah DVH in fifty-fve.

B: They might have started out in a little country but they eventually went rock.

And they really took over the the mass of the listening audience and really

started everything on a different trend. It's a it's.... Well, I 'd like

to say it caused RUF to really stop and look and regroup _R ___d We were

playing basically the same kind of music in s4ty=mhree when I came back as

we were in fity-five and we we were looking at it with the same basic uh... basic

uh..... uh reaction as far as rock is concerned, Like it's still a passing

fadl And it had only been there for ten years at that time. And fortunatelyinone

WRUF 17A
-7-
40
B: of the big station developers had come in the market so we were able to hold our

own with with he* DVH uh' Paybe DVH was one and we'd be two. Then then uh....

Pier ano, who worked here, went over to...,/hen I came he went over to manage

WGGG. He didn't do much as far as furthering the rock image. In fact, he/he stayed

kind of middle of the road, mish mash type of music and didn't didn't uh do

anything to develop that. Then uh the station was sold to. Bob Brown who came

in and really turned the market around with a big promotion, spending a lot of

money, putting on a lot of high priced contracts and with put in some real

good top forty jocks that uh ..... that uh did a real good job. They were real

first class people. And uh consequently, uh they suddenly from being always

the door mat of the market they suddenly were number one in the market
T: Right and then it was WRUF's turn to be uh....

B: Right. RUF then was....

T: Not number one anymore.

B: Not number one or even number two. We were we were we were just

caught way down the list. So uh.... uh what although Brown....

taught a lot of people in this area something about promoting radio,

what to do, what his basic reason for coming in here to do the thing

was W he would come in and he would buy property that he knew

he could develop, build up, get it to be number one, get it to build

uh start doing uh.... uh high gross, and then sell it..... at a at

a at a large profit which is what he did. He sold the station for

somewhere around s-i hul-ed afl -fty--fous nct--do-4-rs. I think
$3oo, ooo7 he bought it for three4or something like that. Probably spent a hundred thousand on it so he made -two hmded whu nddu-llai on it in a year and a half or two years that he had the station on the market/ which is what a lot of people are doing these days in developing radio properties or getting radio properties aze doing that. WRUF 17A -8- B: Of course RUF isn't one of those and we don't intend to be but uh... T: Well to keep the same general program format over the years uh you and and Ken I guess must have felt that there still was some need for that sort of thing. B: Well, I thinkwe I think we were notnot necessarily a need. I think there's a need for for for.a middle of the road program but uh)there's also a need to make money/ /f you're gonna be if you're gonna be self supporting. And in order to make money you have to you have to be uh.... you have to get the numbers. And if you don't get the numbers then your your big accounts won't buy your station. Publix, McDonalds, Arbys, uh a lot of the fast food chains, jot of the lot of the teen age related uh or college age related markets. Now so wewe were loosing all that. We,we coasted along for you can coast along for five,six, seven, eight years on youryon your on a on a, on a ARB or a ..... 4he number one or two and then pretty soon things start to change especially when another ARB comes out and you're like number five or six. So uh, the hand writing was on the wall, and it has been for the last four or five years and and uh I think one uh another thing too that probably made us reluctant to do anything was uh we were,we were University station and uh lot of people tend to uh.... not associate uh not make uh... uh rock music doesn't make a very good image as far as being a University station is concerned. T: Yeah I was gonna ask you about that. B: But uh... uh stations like WDAE, which is an old-line station in Tampa,proved that you could do it and still uh keep your prestige. You/you put NBC news on the hour, you uhyou uh you do your regular NBC features, you do your hour update of news, you uh you're still the number one station for sports on the market, so you go ahead and WRUF 17A -9- B: you program your rock music. And you do it tastefully. You don't put screamers in there with uh with that.... T: Right. You kind of combine the traditional elements that have always worked for you like the news and,sports with the more up music stuff. B: Yeah. We changed our image to radio... music radio 85 and uh and we're we started starting to play the top 100 and uh uh we've had oh some minor adverse comment on it. Not much. Apparently the Dean of the College, Dean Jones, uh knows why we're doing it and uh is in complete sympathy for us. Since then we've gotten a few of -6-c- co 0 sW)- back on like 7-11 and Jerrys and uh uh they're they're starting uh word of mouth is starting to get around and so uh I intend to take an ARB in November uh2to see just how we are doing in the market. And if we are number one or two then look out. We'll, we'll really make some noise. At the same time uh,we could we could really do we could really do this being a station. I don't know why no one ever thought of it before, but uh uh when we went rock on AM, we uh/split our FM. We do no more duplication on FM. And uh uh we're putting all good music on FM. Putting uh II come in at 6:00 ('00 in the morning, sign on at 7:00. Uh I come in at about si-x-maybe ( I t fr', 20 7;00 sc- fifteen or s-i-x-wefny, and sign on at sevon-e 'etlk and do a big band uh old music of the fifties show, uh and uh.... (stop to answer the phone) T: Uh let's go back to the early fif-tes and let me see what you remember about this. We were talking awhile ago about WGGG and how they were coming up..... B: They started in fQ-ty-ght. T: But uh, around nia-teo- ifty,do you remember that they were complaining about uh WRUF accepting local advertising? They tried to get WRUF 17A -10- T: it banned. B: Yes. T: Uh what do you recall about that episode? B: Well, I wasn't really in a position to know much about what was going on at the time except that uh they did try... uh they tried one to -7 ) get uh... this is Ddph Chamberlin, who tried to get the advertising banned uh, us sell advertising and uh/were unsuccessful in their attempt. I think largely on a because of the Major's efforts in that. Uh he was a strong man and uh uh it just I think it just died CroIM u\l ikc Board of Patrol or whatever it was at that time. There was no regen/, it was a Board of Patrol. T: Was it the idea that because the station was connected with the University it should be supported entirely by the educational fund? B: They felt yeah. They felt that the... they felt,although they knew the situation when they came in, they still felt that uh as we were stayed on we should not,we should not be competitive in the market, in the market place. Which would have been good for them because they were the only station here at the time. Uhhowever, it didn't work out that way. And again uh, they tried to uh again come / back into the situation, and this was in fifty- the or fifty 4 f--r, when they tried to uh take over the Gator games and did in fact take them over one year. T: Yeah. October in 1954, I have in my notes that they protested that that the station was airing University of Florida football. B: Right. T: So did you say they did take over for one year? B: They did they took over the network for one year. In fact, Ottis did not do it for one year. It was either fifty four or f4-fyp-fie that that they took over the network. WRUF 17A -11- T: I could check on that. 0- B: And it was not very satisfactory arrangement. Uh1after that the T-ke-r-''i -"c- o Major took it back over and we've had it every since. Tic-it diA kjnw .the.... And we've had other people complain about RUF being an excLi/sive station for the Gator games in Gainseville. For instance, D uh DVH did. They felt like they should had should the games should have been open for competitive bid and just mark it as they are in other multimarkets. But uh the fact that we are the feeder station for the network and we are the producer station for the network, precluded doing that and it just uh again didn't work out that way. T: Uh is the the network as as an entity, is the network owned by the athletic association? B: Yes. Yes. T: Is that the way it is? B: Right. The network is owned by the athletic association. As a matter of fact, uh I have in here.... T: Let me see how much tape we have left on this side. Oh we got plenty of tape. B: I have here an announcement that I use uh duringalthough it's not / supposed to be used until October s-ixeen'th is when it's supposed to come into effect but we've been using it for every game. It says ",in compliance with FCC regulations document number nin" cein even see-nty three, University of Florida Athletic Association has and excercises full control over the Gator football network exclusive of local network sponsors. The athletic association engages and pays a fee to its entire broadcasting crew. Broadcasting crew of Gator Network does not, and will not engage in deliberate falsification, distortion, or suppression of any facts around this or any other University of Florida athletic eventI. And that's yA -.- WRUF 17A -12- T: What prompted that sort of thing? B: Well the/the network uh not the network p the FCC had been getting complaints, not from us but but from uh people uh)up in the high population areas of the country. Uh mostly ball clubs, professional cSabtSel( c-,,4 Coot-6_Lf ball clubs hiring their own crew and slanting the broadcast uh one sided so uh so we try not to do that and I think Otgis tries to give a fair picture and we don't slant it and won't deliberately do it. But they do own the network, yes. They have complete control over it. T: O.K. Well I probably won't get too much into the.... B: We charge a fee for that... T: Yeah. I probably won't get too much into the network uhI I will have to mention it of course because it is a legitimate station activity, but it's owned by the athletic association. Uh... let's see, I've already talked a little bit with Ot/is about the sports broadcasting but9b can you just give me a kind of a capsule run down on how the network is organized? What you have to go through in the preseason. B: Well.... T: Basically, the business more business side of things. B: Uh... Bob Moore :usually handles that in the athletic department of the of the pre.... uh the real pre-preseason stuff. In other words, they send out they send out uh bid forms to all multistation markets. Uh the stations that have the games now in a multistation market can renew without bidding next year at a ten percent increase. Or if they decide not to renew they can just throw it open to bids and they'll be and the game will be rebid. So they send these all out and then they send them in eventually. Then from that we compile our list up here. And then I have I have about three different lists I make up. One early in June, one in uh well early in July, and then one in August, and then one final list around September tenth or so..... WRUF 17A -13- T: Mm hmm. B: Which uh uh... I say it's final. We usually maybe:-add one or two more uh stations on there. T: So they actually take care of ....... B: Yeah but I send out all the formats and everything else up here. T: So this is the production house but the business side is done...... B: Right. The billing and so forth for the station is taken care of..... T: O.K. Yeah, see it had never been clear to me until now uh. So the idea then as far as I'm gonna explain to whoever reads the thesis is that uh in multistation markets, uh,if no one's carrying it right now any station can bid. That is, uh say how much they're willing to pay to get this program serviced and they in turn will expect to make a profit on it- by selling their own commercial time. B: And we have some we have some uh complaints from various markets. Orlando's one. Uh DVO in Orlando carries games, uh Winter Haven is fairly close, and SIR carries the games and uh there are other markets in there and that carry. Haines City and uh now GTO is carrying the games. T: Some signals spill over and.... B: Yeah. Some signals spill over and so a lot of times they complain but really uh we just we don't do anything about it because we feel that there's such a thing as loyalties to various stations and uh the listener is gonna listen they're gonna listen anyway and I think.... T: Yeah, they'll listen to their favorite station anyway. B: Right. T: Um... talking uh)you were talking a few minutes ago about the Major being a very strong man, a very strong personality, uh what do you recall was your first impression on going to work for the Major? Was uh...... WRUF 17A -14- B: Well, I never got the chance to see the Major much in the old days, 4iie I'd get there at five o'clock in the afternoon and he'd be gone. And I'd stay there til midnight and I'd come on the weekends and he wouldn't be there on the weekends so I I didn't get to see him much the first two or three years I was there khe first two years. But uh I heard a lot of tales about how tough he was. And if if you made a mistake..... (interrupted by phone call again) (Rest of tape is blank) S.. b j / o . c- */. ' Page 15 7: (tape starts in middle of sentence) ...what is supposed to be probably the most famous episode of all, the Great Chicken Reel Epfisode. Uh, I've heard of it but I don't have all the details. :' You had had the you had.the uhyou had the uh Christmas card episode. f: Yeah, Bob S$ith told me about the Christmas card episode.

: Greeting card.

"7.? The greeting card, yeah.

':) No I don't mean the greeting card they were uh....

' The tree ornaments.

"' Tree ornaments. Christmas tree ornaments.

Those funny tree ornaments. Yeah.

P'1 Well the Chicken Reel Episode was the major uh being. The Major was a very

patriotic individual. He wrote as a matter of fact, uh a book on uh how to

correctly display the flag of the United States which was published and uh2uh..

So he's very patriotic and consequently he did not use the Star Spangled Banner

for just any any ocassion. He was as a matter of uh uh/as evidence he would

never use to sign a radio station off. He didn't feel that was an important

thing. So he insisted that we didn't use the Star Spangled Banner for signing

off radio or signing it on for that matter. We came on with other things but uh,

not Dixie but uh we signed off with the Lord's prayerA, Never the Star Spangled

Banner. The Star Spangled Banner) wheneverr you heard the Star Spangled Banner

on WRUF in those days, which I can't remember ever having heard, it was had to
prz- da.o_,
be a rare ocassion. The-dea Ll "t e- or something like that. So, uh 1948

we got new {ro&rat +c( out, seven miles out. And uh, this was this was a

big deal. I mean, 4-ra_&-yvwVACr was the very finest you could get, big

complex out there with four towers..,..

WRUF 17A Bob Leach and Ted Burrows Page /(

-.'fi Must have really widened the covered area....

Rt Right, .eah. It's supposed to do a lot of things. So, the Major had uh John

Tigert, then President 6rA o might still have been president,

then; Probably1 probably still president. Anyway, had him, I know that. He

F I think in 1948 uh Dr. Miller had become president.

g: Yeah. Well Tigert was president P grer- He had Tigert I mean he had
-
Miller. And he had uh ... he had.... uh senatorr a couple of senators And he

had I think one commentator or something from Mutual. And they were all they

were all for the ribbon cutting ceremony out at the out at the _rct__M;-_J

even miles in the country.

7'. Didn't I hear something about OFis being out there and like an emcee?

8:E" Ot/is was a Otfis was the emcee. Otlis was the emcee uh/for the ceremonies out

at the..... So the uh] he ceremonies were to take place somewhere around

between one and two o'clock in the afternoon. And for that Dan Allen, who was

running the board, was gonna introduce the ribbon cutting ceremonies and all

the event that surrounded it.... with the little speeches and so forth1 So

T: This was from the studios?

B: This was from the studios, right. He was gonna he was gonna.,. ee they were

listening out there and this was gonna officially openA Although we had been

programming up there this would officially open us. So uh... uh Alan was gonna

open with uh......uhthe opening He was gonna open cold with "Ladies and gentlemen

our National AnthemJ Well this was a big thing. Everybody was even talking

about it around the station that we were gonna play the National Anthem. And

our only cut of the National Anthem, since we didn't play it very often, was

on a C-sack recording, / C-sack transcription. And these were great big ol

sixteen inch transcriptions that had several cuts on either side. And I don't

know what who the orchestra was. Dan Allen was had cued it up on the turntable.

WRUF 17A Page / '

Bob Leach and Ted Burrows

B: And Dan was always one that was in love with his voice, and-e had a good voice.

He was not very good in sports a-/,i but he he he was a good announcer.
o
And uh .... So Dan came omlwith his very s norous tones and said uh "ladies

and gentlemen, our Xational them" (in deep voice). And it was (mumbles )
4i-
tt was the Chicken Reel he had cued up instead of the National Anthem. Of

course the Major1 Bob described what the major looked like later. He said

he just turned purple out at the transmitter. And a few giggles out there

with the dignitaries and the Major was just beStc A & raged. He he got mad

easily but with something like this he really got mad. And so..., nd then

Alan was trying to cue it up. Scraped the needle a couple of times and finally

got it .oae It was really rinky dink. And the Major was just he juStl don't

know I mean what kept him from going into a shock at the time. (Ted laughs)

But anyway, Boggs said that he just. When he got it out there he was just

completely to pieces.

T: Amazing.

B: But anyway, that was the story of the Xational /ntem. The Major, One of the

things I used to like to do in the later days, around fiLLy-Fve or so. ghe Major

used tot7 e4 used to like to big dealing a lot,' And you never know whether he

was really telling the truth or wasn't telling the truth. And he'd talk about

things like uh like some people in the administration.ya know. He'd say well

he doesn't really know those people. Then one morning I was in his office and

he says/ /this was when Eisenhower was President, he said r Herb Brownell is

on the phone for you ? And it was Herb Brownell on the phone. So you really

didn't know ya know/ And so.,,But he used to he used to really like to do

things in a random matter. And one day uh... uh.... a a a Korean student came

down_-b _1t And they had sent him down from the Voice of America. And

WRUF 17A Page /8

Bob Leach and Ted Burrows

B: he was gonna cut a speech, record a speech down in our uh using our facilities

uh saying uh... what uh... how much he was enjoying his stay over here at the

University of Florida and the student exchange program and how, and how uh)

people of North Korea if they would just realize it would have a good deal

if they were ya know looked at the American way of life. It was a propaganda

thing t -wee-s r America. And so the Major called me in the office and says

"Bob, this is in r 00 (imitates Major's voice). And I says "yes sir. How

are ya?" He says "Campal 's gonna record this thing for the oV c- Of
"-"America and I want you to do it first. Can't make any mistakes". And

I said "O.K. Major I'll take care of it". I happened to notice that uh Kim

Foo had his script in his hand and it was Chinese. The thing was in Chinese.

And I took the script, started back, and I said "oh Major, I said did you

want to check the script before he goes on?" "Yeahy9 He says, "God dammit

I better do that. I have to do every God damn thingA I handed him the

script and he looked at it and you know I could see his eyes Alaze over ya

know. Folded it back up and he handed it back and he says "God damn you're

gonna kill me one of these dayAI So, we went on back and he knew I just

did it to ,v\ee And so we went on back and T YrcCci-d X 4+ we got

through and came back and he says "oh Kim how'd it go?". "Very good Major

very gooj. "Gooc" I said) "Major I've got everything on tape #t's all

ready to go". I said "Do you wanna take a listen to it before I buckle it upL'

"Yeah" he says "I guess I'd better take a look at that make sure it sounds right

So he got up from his desk with his cigarette VO(dt r and went all the way

back to the studio motoring along a little bit. So we got back there. "yeah
,? tA ;, l&es
go ahead and play it BobC So I turned the tape on sounds of

Chinese words) And you could see it. And then he started to turn purple and

he came down the hall with a cigaretteholder puffing and he says "you're just

WRUF 17A page I/
Bob Leach and Ted Burrows

B: kill me one of these God damned days\ He went on in his office and didn't say

anything. But anyways that was the story.

T: So all of his perfectionism and and that 1e seemed to uhi maybe of had a pretty

good sense of humor after all.

B: Oh yeah, /eah he did. Uh I never will forget one time uh Sual Brown was going

on the air and .... somebody gave him a shot in the back and he came on says

"huh! WRUF t Ya know and -#ie d-,or, the phone rang--Major had telephone

uh)radios all over---hone rang and said who goosed ya)Sual4)

T: Yeah I heard that uh if you ever made a mistake on the air you could just predict

that that the phone was gonna light up ya know.

B: I would just reach for it. No you dontt even have to do that. Just reach over

and pick it up cause it'd be the Major.

T: Hello Major. Yeah. But he was proud of his voice.

B: Oh yeah.

T: I re.. I've seen that all over the place. Ya know he was always intensively

proud of the people that that came through the place.

B: He was a little pof ouS but he was uh he was a very sincere man. He really was.

T: Do you ever recall around the 1950's if there was a committee uh formed that

was supposed to be looking at the operation uh. Kind of try to decide which way