Interview with Sandra Tillis, 1995-11-01

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Interview with Sandra Tillis, 1995-11-01
Tillis, Sandra ( Interviewee )
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University of North Florida Fisherfolk Oral History Collection ( local )


This text has been transcribed from an audio or video oral history. Digitization was funded by a gift from Caleb J. and Michele B. Grimes.

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Samuel Proctor Oral History Program, Department of History, University of Florida
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This interview is part of the 'UNF Fisherfolk' collection of interviews held by the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program of the Department of History at the University of Florida
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UNF Fisherfolk 024 Palmo Fish Camp 11-1995 ( SPOHP IDENTIFIER )


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Interview with Sandy Tillis. granddaughter of the founder of Palmo November 1995

Sandy: I cannot remember dates, like when people died, I don't remember, it was back in the
40's that my grandfather came down here to the Palmo area, here's Palmo Road, out here is
Palmo Bay. He named it Palmo after something to do with the Indians, meaning friendly or
something to that affect, I cannot remember. My granddaddy was one of the most wonderful
people I've ever met in my life. We didn't call him granddaddy, we called him honeyman. We
wanted to name him something good and sweet, and we didn't want to name him Sugarman, that
sounded funny, so my cousin Sherry named him Honeyman. Now she's more, she lives down
the road and on the weekend, you might be able to get a hold of her and get more appropriate
dates from her because she can remember dates better than I can. He bought, here's Palmo Road,
in to the Bay, he bought all of this land and all of this land. And here is the river.
Linda: I maybe better draw that picture because I won't get that.
Sandy: He bought, I don't know how much land he bought, but he bought the whole riverfront
and which is up to the potato field. Anyway, through misrepresentation of money, etcetera, he
sold all of this. All of the waterfront. He sold 50 acres every year to a man named Mr. Pate for
ten thousand dollars. The family had no idea anything about it, he did not know what was going
on. He was at the end of his life and he had no mental understanding of money and it was a
heartbreak in the family but we didn't, you know, what's done is done, we'll forget. But my
mother still is alive. She's seventy years old, she lives in a little white house over here right by
me. She still owns nineteen acres over here in the trailer park down the road, we call it the hog
pen, because we used to have a hundred head of hog out there until they'd get out and get out and
get out and my stepdaddy couldn't catch them, and we were trying to run this restaurant down
here, and they started getting in people's yards and we, they quit calling us, they started calling
the police, just got rid of them, sold them all. But we still own all the way down to this side of
the dock they're building down there. I used to couldn't see the property line but now I can
because they built that dack. My mother sold the 3 lots on the water. We ran the fish camp from
back into the 40's. She and my daddy bought it from my grandfather, and they ran it as a fish
camp for a long time, I can remember the open underneath and the boats and the people going
fishing, and there was a wooden slatted boat ramp, and people had like wheels under their boats,
and they'd roll it down into the water, but now there's like a $150,000 boat ramp down there.
They just fixed it last year.
Linda: You say fish camp, where your grandfather would take people out and take them fishing?
Sandy: It was a camp where you'd go in and buy hooks and sinkers and rent boats and motors
and buy fishing poles and shiners, we had a lot of shiners and live crabs for sale. Fish bait, and
they'd go out and fish. But no guides, nothing. We didn't even know what a guide was. We
just, they knew where to go fishing. You could go fishing anywhere in this area in this river and
catch stringers full of beautiful fish. They used to follow me when I was a child. I would get in
a boat and row down here and the older men would follow me to see where I would go fishing.



And they'd pay me for stringers of fish. They pay me five dollars for stringers of fish. That's
how I made my spending money. My uncle lived next door to us. We lived in the house down,
way down by the restaurant, the big building right by the boat ramp. Later years we built on to
the fish camp and made it a restaurant, but back when I was a child, my uncle lived next door to
us and he did cat lining, catfich lining.
Linda: What is that?
Sandy: Trot lines. And he'd catch catfish and he would bring them home and skin them, and he
would drive all the way to green Cove all the way to Stokes Landing and sell his catfish and
come home. One night he was coming home and he hit a barge with his boat, it was dark.
Threw the boat up on the barge, threw the motor, threw him out of the boat on the barge, threw
the motor on top of him, knocked him out. There, I can't, there's no telling what saved his life.
He woke up, put themotor back on his boat, and came home!
Linda: Nobody from the boat realized, in the big barge, what was going on?
Sandy: My granddaddy, when I was a kid, he told me tales of a swamp girl. He was very
ficticious. He would take us rambling in the woods. There's Indian mounds down here, there's
three Indian mounds. They excavated all bones out of them before I was born, I'm sure. I had
no idea what they were. I didn't know they were Indian burial grounds, I thought that an Indian
mound was just where they lived, and we used to go spend the night, put up tents when I was a
kid and sleep there, you know? And when I got up 15, 16 years old, I learned that an Indian
mound was a dead man's grave, and I thought oh my God, I can't believe that when I was a kid
we'd sleep in these graveyards, Indian graveyards! He would take us out there and leave us and
go home. He would rather go spend the night in a nice warm soft bed, and he'd leave us in these
Indian grounds. We'd cook weenies and marshmallows, and the next morning we'd get up and
go home. He had a, he was the neighborhood honeyman...oh, another reason they called him
Honeyman was because he bought a honeybee tree and he always had honey for everybody.
He'd put on his garments and he'd smoke them out of the trees and he'd get jars of honey the old
fashioned way and he'd give it to everybody in the neighborhood.
Linda: I saw a piece of it in your restaurant yesterday. The old, I don't know what you call it,
the comb?
Sandy: Yeah.
Linda: There's a piece of it in the restaurant.
Sandy: Yeah. I can remember when I was, I'm just talking out of memory out of distance...
Linda: ...Oh, this is very interesting!
Sandy: When I was a little kid, he had three cows and we had fresk milk on our doorstep every
day. That whole area down there where there's, from River Road all the way back where all
those trailer parks and all that stuff was open field, and we used to go fly kites and play, and
there was an orange grove out there. He was a moonshiner...
Linda: Your grandaddy?
Sandy: And he used to moonshine on the side, and he, this is way before I was ever thought

L __ _______________6


about. He would carry his moonshine to Jacksonville in a boat, and mama said he would cover it
with oranges from the orange grove so { }. But then later on he didn't do all that
when I was little. I never can remember him doing anything of the like. He had an old wooden
boat that he built a sail for, and we'd get in the sailboat and we would go over to Jack Right
Linda: Where's that?
Sandy: Straight across...(Geese and other noises)...
Linda: He built the houses on the water for other people?
Sandy: Yeah. He built his own house and he built a garage apartment in back of it. He built
seven cabins down here for the fish camp that we rented out. I can remember mama used to get
twenty one dollars a week and we had an old colored woman that came and helped her clean
them up and cook our dinner and she would go and help mama clean and wash the sheets and
iron them and, the iron is still down there, the old roll iron with a great old big thing and has a
big old roll iron in it and she used to do the pedals with her knees and she...
Linda: Is that building just abandoned now?
Sandy: Yeah, but the ironer is under the shed door now out by the mailbox.
Linda: Can I go out there and look at it later?
Sandy: Yeah, sure. When I was a little bitty kid...I'm forty four now, I was born in fifty one,
back in the 50's I can remember the majority of the people down here were the people who came
and rented cottages from us for weekends or weeks at a time. There wasn't that many other
people that lived down here. Nobody wanted to live out in the woods, they all wanted to live in
town. I led a very lonely life as a child because there was no one out here to play with, until I got
to about ten or twelve years old, and then there were children out there. I went to school every
day, I didn't hardly stay home from school because there was nothing to do. Now people skip
school because it's fun, but back then there wasn't anything to do.
Linda: Where did you go to school?
Sandy: St. Augustine. I went to Orange Streets when I was in, through the sixth grade, (
)seventh and eighth, and ninth through twelfth to St. Augustine High. Mama fought the school
board the whole time we were in school to keep us out of Mill Creek because it wasn't
accredited. And she won, and we went all the way to St. Augustine. She went to Mill Creek
when she was coming up and she just, she didn't like the school. She thought that the schools in
town were better.
Linda: I wanted to go back to something that you were telling me that there was a story about
the swamp lady...
Sandy: Oh, the swamp girl. When we were kids, he was a storyteller and this never got worn
out, he would tell us about the swamp girl. And it had us where we were terrified to go in the
woods by ourselves. I guess he did it to keep us out of the woods. But she was an Indian
princess and she lived in the hollows out of trees in the swamp. And he would just lead us on
into tales about her that were sometimes thirty, forty minutes long. It was wonderful.

_____________________________7 _


Linda: Were they scary stories, or was she a good person?
Sandy: She was a good person. She was a lonely person, but he would always tell us if we
weren't good the swamp girl was going to get us. I can't remember a lot of the stories, but I can
remember him telling us about her. there was no other character in her life but her.
Linda: What other kind of you remember any other tales that he would talk about
besides her?
Sandy: I'd have to sit down and think.
Linda: I've been, this is really interesting because this is what I've been dying to get is the
history of the place.
Sandy: I can show you the Indian mound.
Linda: It's not far?
Sandy: No, he found a hollowed out boat by the Indians, I was four years old, it was a hollowed
out tree to me that the Indians used. The museums came out; at that time three hundred dollars
was a lot of money and they offered him three hundred dollars and he told them no, that he
wanted to keep it. The very next day, all of us kids, me and my brother and both of my cousins
got in it, set fire to it. One of my cousins had a tremendous amount of pottery, real pottery,
Indian heads, arrowheads, pieces of pottery that, the road that leads down to the crab plant on the
. river, it used to be totally dirt, like sand pit, and we would walk back and forth and hunt pottery.
And I don't know if she still has it or, I'm not sure...
Linda: When you say she...
Sandy: my cousin, she kept all of it. We didn't it, it was just stuff we found in the dirt, we
didn't think it was important.
Linda: I'm still thinking about the canoe...
Sandy: Well, when you were four years old you have, who cares!
Linda: I was getting ready for you to tell me we're going to see the canoe.
Sandy: No, I wish! The main Indian mound that I remember is way back in thewoods and I'm
not sure if we can get to it or if any of it is left. The one up here in our trailer park is just a little (

Those were the only signs that Indians lived here before we did. The land was totally undone
when we moved here, when my granddaddy bought it. There was nothing down here, it was all
Linda: Not even farming back then?
Sandy: No. First of all, he bought that dairy over across the way where it was Simmons dairy,
and he moved from there and told them and bought this over here. My grandmother died before
I was born and he married his childhood sweetheart, and she was the only grandmother I ever
knew. She was my step-grandmother, but she was still grandma. In later years she died with
bone cancer, and when she died he just lost his mind and willed himself dead. I believe it was
back in the seventies that he died. It was, it was the early seventies, and then right after that my
uncle died, and back about five years ago my aunt, my cousin's mother, died from a brain tumor.



There was one other uncle, but he died way before I was born from an aneurism. My mother is
still alive. She is just as fit as a fiddle, there's nothing wrong with her except old age. She's not
a talkative person, I don't know if I could get her to sit down and converse, I'm not sure, but she
holds a lot of good history that I don't remember.
Linda: Maybe she'll just talk to you and I could loan you this stuff because I would love to get
the history. At one point you were saying that your grandfather sold all of this. At what point
did he do that, do you remember?
Sandy: After my grandmother died.
Linda: So is that when...
Sandy: Well he sold a little bit all along, all these waterfront lots. And then because I can
remember him living here and all these other people Echevarius lived there and Harrison lived
there and Kyle lived there...
Linda: Are they still there?
Sandy: And then next door've all sold them to other people. And then next door to
him was Mrs. Brown, she was a nut. She was crazy. She had a cat one time that had kittens and
the kittens died, and she left them with the mother for three days so the mother wouldn't mourn
and just, weird stuff. She had pet rattlesnakes in her house and Mr. Pate's dog went into her
house one time and got bit by the rattlesnake and died, and he got all upset and she said 'well, he
shouldn't have been in my house!' She was real live nuts.
Linda: I wonder why they didn't bite her.
Sandy: Her house burned down. She was making jelly and her kitchen caught on fire and her
house burned down.
Linda: Did she get out? Where is she?
Sandy: A year and a half ago I heard the other day she was still alive. My cousin, I was talking
to my cousin's husband yesterday, or maybe, I was asking him about her, just out of the blue,
and he said that a year and a half ago she was still alive. Her name is Alice Brown.
Linda: Does she still live in the area?
Sandy: She would have to be in an old folk's home because she was an old, old woman when I
was a kid. Since that, between times, they've sold the land and they've sold the land again,
besides where my grandfather's house is down there. Now my cousin has a house. There was
another thing too. We never had any horses, but up in the corer of one of the pastures, there
was a big barn. It was a huge barn, and he had built it, and it was old when I was a kid. I think
he built it. I can remember antique bridles and bits and stuff to do with horses in there, and my
cousin got that, one of my cousins got that. She may even want to talk to you, I don't know. Her
name is Rebecca Heisler, she lives out in Cecil Field. But that might just be up her alley to
converse about some of the old things. And then again it might stir up { }.
Linda: What other kind of characters lived around here besides Alice Brown?
Sandy: There was antoher family named Brown. They lived down the road here, and I can
remember going on the boat with them. And we found an alligator, we hit him on the head with


a paddle. We scared him off and he ran, and people just don't do that now, you'd be scared to
death of them. We were just out boat riding with friends. There was another woman that lived
down there. Her name was, oh gosh, what was her name...I went to herhouse one day and her
dog bit me. And it was like a perfect vaccination mark where he had bit me. I guess his little
teeth were like a round circle when he bit. She's sold that place since then. I know I'll think of
ten million things to tell you after you leave.
Linda: Well, I can always come back. You are really the only person so far that knows anything
from the past. This is just fascinating.
Sandy: I can sit with you, maybe on, my cousin works at Mayo clinic Monday through Friday
and she is terribly busy, but maybeone weekend we could get together and, talking with her we
can remember stuff that I'm not remembering now. And she's about six or seven years older
than I am and I know she can remember a lot more than I can. Especially about when we were
kids, and dates, and when this happened and when that happened. She just moved back down
here in March. Her husband's an army-lifer and he's been all over the world in the army and
they finally retired. They'd been hoping for this day and back in March they finally, she was
able to move down and in June he followed her.
Linda: When you say they're back are they in this area?
Sandy: Yeah, she lives in Bell Homes, my granddaddy's homestead. Her name is Sherry Cribs,
Sharon Cribs, and I know for a fact she would love to sit and talk.
Linda: I saw the mailbox down there. Nice house, right on the water.
Sandy: Yeah. Honeyman built that.
Linda: It doesn't look that old.
Sandy: He took care of it. He always took care of it and everybody that's ever, his daughter
Bertha lived there for ten or so years, I believe, and she took real good care of it, and then Sherry
moved back into it, she inherited it from my mamaand she's redone most of it, a lot of it. There
is a stone patio in the front yard that was there when I was a little bitty kid. It is still there, great
shape. He built by hand, I'll take you down and show you the one that's left, fish ponds that
people have in their yard and mama had goldfish in it and she had to put an electric wire around
the top to keep the raccoons out. The kingfisher, and it had a pedestal in the middle of it with a
frog squirting water, and she had piles of goldfish in that thing it was beautiful, especially when
it was kept clean. I had the busy chore of always cleaning it, but I didn't mind mind spending
time there. It's probably twice as big as one ofthosepalettes. It's a good size pond. It's
probably as big as the back of my flatbed, which is a good size pond. Back in '68, '69, mama
met his daddy and they got married and we never met until eight years later we met one time,
'Hey, how are you doing?' and between that eight years, and then we got together and we got
married, so that's why we all have the same name, mother and a daughter married a father and a
son. Gosh, we've been married eighteen years...(side 2)...the last, when I was about seventeen or
eighteen years, there was a few of them that started moving down here. We had ajip joint, there
was two jip joints down here. Palmo, and later on we made it into a restaurant. Besides, I didn't


like all the drinking...
Linda: ..I was going to ask what's ajip joint, but now, it's a bar...
Sandy: Yeah, and down the road there was Mack's Shack, which is an apartment building now,
but when I was a kid it was the Blood Bucket, a roaring jig noint where people got beat up,
knived, all that stuff. Since those people soold it to this, that and the other one and that turned
into an apartment house, I don't think there's anybody, the only people that are down here, that
were down here but it was after I was like ten or twelve years old. The Metcalf's that have the
crab plantdown there up at the end of the road, thay moved down here and bought the crab plant
down. Before them, as far as people went living down here and knowing the area,
brother is three years older than me, two and a half years older than me, and I don't know if he
can remember a lot more than me. He lives in Middleburg, comes down here a lot...
Linda: fish?
Sandy: Yeah...
Linda: ...It's beautiful here.
Sandy: He goes to a hunting camp down in Riverdale, he belongs to it and they go home a lot.
He brings both children his girl and boy down here fishing a lot. His little girl is going to Florida
now, doing great, brains. One of the brain kids. Both of them are very, I'm very proud of both
of them. What else is there...The fish camp itself, when I was a kid, the whole area was open and
then when that { } back in '64 the water came up about waist deep in the parking lot
and the building wasn't nailed down to the pilings. I can remember we had supper on the stove
in the r restaurant and mama wouldn't let us go in and get our supper. The water had risen so
high, it lifted the whole building up and it was going back and forth and it was a humongous
building. I can remember, we ate Chinese noodles and salmon that night, that's all we had in the
house, all the groceries were in the restaurant.
Linda: So you ate most of your meals in the restaurant?
Sandy: Oh yeah. That was more or less our living area, food area. We just slept in the house.
And then after Dora hit us, when she rebuilt all the walls around it and everything and maybe
like, enclosed everything. I'll have to look and see ifI can find some old pictures.
Linda: Weel that would be nice...So when did this restaurant open?
Sandy: Oh, it never closed.
Linda: No, I mean, when did it open, what year?
Sandy: Well, when I was a kid, I can remember my mama selling sandwiches to all the
fishermen. And when I was sixteen, seventeen, she was selling catfish dinners, basic stuff.
Hamburgers, catfish dinners...It was always a bar and then slowly, very slowly, we progressed it
inch by inch into '78 we took it over, helping them full time when we got married and
turned it into a full-fledged restaurant. Him being a commercial fisherman, he caught almost
everything we served in there. All the soft shell crabs, catfish, turtle. I would row a canoe from
the restaurant over to that point three times a day and run my turtle lines to catch soft shell turtles
for my restaurant.


Linda: how do you prepare turtle?
Sandy: They'd cut him up and butcher him and just batter him and fry him like a chicken.
Linda: What does it taste like?
Sandy: It's got seven different flavors in it. It tastes like chicken, pork, beef, turkey, something
Linda: You mean each different area of the turtle...
Sandy: Has a different flavor. It's got a flavor all, it's a mild meat, it's not strong like alligator.
Soft shell crabs, we thought we weer shedding a lot, we would shed five or six dozen a day. We
didn't know what we were doing. What else did we have...flounder filets. Caught them in crab
traps. Back than you were allowed to keep all the fish you could catch except for red bass that
are now outlawed. I have a clientelle from Jacksonville that would come down and eat seafood
to their, they just couldn't move when they left. Crab salad, macaroni salad with crab meat piled
on top.
Linda: What kind of prices did you charge?
Sandy: Crab salad was three dollars, soft shell crab sandwich was three dollars, flounder dinner
was $6.95 or $7.95, you get about three or four filets of flounder, enough to give you
indigestion... french fries, hush puppies, homemade hushpuppies with sause, onions, tomatoes,
and bell peppers. Soft shell crabs, you probably got about eight pieces of soft shell crab.
There's no restaurant that could stay in business that served what I served now without charging
a fortune.
Linda: But back then you made good enough money?
Sandy: Well, yeah, we made a living, we didn't make a killing. We just made an honest living.
But we didn't know when to quit, and people would rant and rave about how much and how
good and we should put more on...
Linda: And you say you never closed, but were people really coming down here to eat late at
Sandy: I cooked at midnight. When we first started running it back in '78, we ran it seven days
a week, seven in the morning to 1AM, and I cooked until one. I rebelled, we cut it back to five
days a week, had Monday and Tuesday off and I rebelled, but then, I was just twenty-six, twenty-
seven years old and I just didn't work my whole life. Everybody else did. In the family,
everybody else did but me. I was always the youngest. Then we cut it back to three days a
week, we worked Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, and we were off for the rest of the week and by
then I had, we had built the restaurant up to such a { } it took me the rest of the week to
prepare for those three days.
Linda: So you were still working all week.
Sandy: And then we closed it down, it was just too much. We were family owned, I couldn't get
help to help me and it was just too much. This is hard work fishing, but there's like half the
stress, it's a different, it takes a different kind of person to put up with the public all the time.
Linda: You're talking to somebody that was in the restaurant business for twenty years until last

______________________________i _


year, so...
Sandy: It's not any fun. These people, a lot of the locals were redneck houlighans who liked to
drink and fight...
Linda: You found yourself trying to keep the peace a lot?
Sandy: Oh, every day. Every day, and it got old. And when you run an old country place like
that, everybody knows your business and you're married to it. They come in and sit and pump
you all day and I got tired of all that, so that was enough.
Linda: i don't want to keep you talking until you can't talk anymore, so you let me know when
you're getting tired.
Sandy: I would really like to get a hold of my cousin and get her to remember because I know
there's so much that I'm missing out on.
Linda: Alfred Mosley?
Sandy: I forgot to tell you my granddaddy's name, his name was Alfred Mosley. My mother's
name is Jane Mosley, they never gave her a middle name. My grandmother's name was Leese
Ann, one of the most beautiful names, I wish she would have named me Leese Ann, but she
named me Sandra. And my step-grandmother was, well, her name was grandma. Trees down
here, the moss just hung down to the ground. You see moss out there in those trees, well it was
like tons of it compared to that. And all the trees down here had humongous amounts of moss
hanging all over them, it looked like back in Mark Twain's era or something like that. It didn't
look like Palmo. We have a real problem with the name Palmo...P-A-L-M-O, Palmo, everybody
distorts the name, on the phone, in writing, they want to call it Palermo's or Palomo's or...Palmo,
it's so simple and I tell them you know, it's such a simple name you're just messing it all up. I'll
try to find out what the name is, mama knows. I'll find out from her.
Linda: Can you say that again, about the boat ramp?
Sandy: When I was eleven or thirteen years old, my mother gave the county a whole waterfront
lot for a boat ramp. Last year was the first time they have done anything to it since it's been here
and they put a hundred thousand dollars in it and updated it. That's the first work they have ever
done on it since I was a child.
Linda: Was it used much?
Sandy: Oh, definitely. We griped about it all the time, had people gripe about it, nobody could
do anything about it. Finally last year they came in and redid all the sides and put new sides and
a new ramp and everything, redid the whole thing, put about a hundred thousand dollars in it.
When you stand at the front door oftherestaurant and look down the road, that is the old road. I
can remember when I was five years old, four years old, 'mama, please take us down the old
road' and this is the old road, it goes between the trees. It's right where this truck is parked and
it's like straight through, goes all the way down, straight. all through those trees, and we would
weasel in and out of the trees and go down the old road. They didn't want to cut all the old trees
down, the county, so they put a paved road, when I was seventeen years old they paved the road
and they put the paved road on my mama's land, right here. And it goes straight into the boat


ramp. But the old road is where the mailbox is. This has been here, this shed has been here since
I can remember, before I was...I can remember when I was three years old. I can remember we
lived in this little bitty cabin, and I can remember mama with a wheelbarrow moving all our stuff
to the big house.
Linda: And what was this used for, the shed?
Sandy: We rented it out for a cabin...
Linda: Oh, so it was enclosed at one time?
Sandy: Oh, this shed? No, it was just a shed. Had picnic tables under it. This is the old iron.
See the foot pedals? And there was an on and off, and a hot, and I can't read that...
Linda: They both say on and off.
Sandy: Okay, one is probably...maybe it's right and left, yes. And then you've got your different
selections there. I can remember playing and hiding all my toys in this...this is an antique
though. I have no idea how it got in here. No idea. The old barn that I was talking about was
back over there in back of that barbecue house that window's all wound up...
Linda: Why do you call that the barbecue house?
Sandy: The people that lived in that trailer behind it, that was their barbecue house, their party
house. That's where they partied.
Linda: And it's a residence now?
Sandy: Yeah. There's an old man named Buddy Dorman that lives there now.
Linda: Buddy Dorman? That name is real familiar to me.
Sandy: He was here when I was a child. One of the Indian mounds is right up here, the other
one that I know of is way deep in the woods, but I'll show you this one. It's just a little hump in
the ground, but it's an Indian mound. And I know for a fact that way before my granddaddy ever
bought any of this land down here they excavated all the bones and such out of it, they probably
wouldn't have left anything. When I was a kid I used to think 'Oh, I hate it down here. I want to
move to town, I hate it down here!' and then as I grew up, I realized how beautiful it is down
here and I wouldn't move to town now for all the money in the world.
Linda: Oh, it is gorgeous here. It's about a 120 mile trip for me to come down here and I've
been coming down here every day for the past few days. But it's...
Sandy: Where do you live?
Linda: I live up in Jacksonville by the Damesport Bridge. But I'll tell you, I was thinking today
on the way down here, it is just, like meditation driving down here. It's gorgeous.
Sandy: I used to haul crabs up there, for the crab plant over there on Heckshire, off Heckshire,
down New Berlin Road.
Linda: Is it still there?
Sandy: No, they closed it. Between these trees, you see the hump of dirt? This is the old Indian
* mound. In years gone by, they have run over it and run over it and run over it, until they have
wore it down, but basically right here was an old Indian mound.
Linda: Are there any spooky stories?

Sandy: No. There was one time when I was real little, the scardest I think I have ever been, my
cousin Sherry and Becky and Larry, my brother, we would all go out to the, out as far as we
could go in the woods, to sleep out in tents without getting terrified. And we were on the edge of
the field over there, and two o'clock in the morning, I woke up. I remember, I was about five or
six years old and everybody had left me in the tent by myself, everybody was in the other tent,
there was two tents, and there was a pack of wild dogs running by that woke me up, and I made
them bring me home now, right now, to mama now. And I screamed and hollered and yelled and
cried until they took me home to mama. There's a house down here, everything down here is
sulfur water. There's one house down here that has, when I was a kid it had a pump, one of them
primer pumps in the yard, you pour water in it and you pump the pump and, like way back in the
old days. And it had fresh water, what we call fresh, no sulfur in it. And everybody would take
all the milk jugs down there and get fresh water. My granddaddy built that pump. I wish he
were alive to talk to you. I don't, there's so many things that he could tell you. He'd take us
rambling in the woods and shoo us up trees, help us climb and then he'd leave, go home. And
we'd have to get down and fend for ourselves the best way we could. Made us tough, scared us
to death. He was a grand granddaddy, though. One of the best. He took a lot of time with us
kids. Taught us how to smoke rabbit tobacco with a corncob pipe when I was six years old.
. Linda: Can you tell me about that?
Sandy: He would take a corncob, hollow out the center of it and make a bamboo pipe that went
into the end of it, and we'd go out in the woods and we'd hunt rabbits and we'd light rabbit
tobacco and we'd smoke it. It won't do anything to you, it's harmless like deer tongue, but we'd
come home and mama would tear us up, whip us and get mad at Honeyman and, about a week
later it would cool off, so we'd go back out there and find some more. He was a very
mischevious grandfather. He always had all of us kids, there was never a dull moment. We
always went rambling, playing, doing something. I wish every kid in the world could have a
granddaddy like us.