Citation
Interview with Larry Warriax, November 2, 1974

Material Information

Title:
Interview with Larry Warriax, November 2, 1974
Creator:
Warriax, Larry ( Interviewee )
Publication Date:
Language:
English

Subjects

Subjects / Keywords:
Urban Lumbee Oral History Collection ( local )

Notes

Funding:
This text has been transcribed from an audio or video oral history. Digitization was funded by a gift from Caleb J. and Michele B. Grimes.

Record Information

Source Institution:
Samuel Proctor Oral History Program, Department of History, University of Florida
Holding Location:
This interview is part of the 'Urban Lumbee' collection of interviews held by the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program of the Department of History at the University of Florida
Rights Management:
Made available under a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 4.0 International license: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/.
Resource Identifier:
UL 16 ( SPOHP IDENTIFIER )

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Full Text




Russ Hyden


B: This is November 2, 1974. 1I'm)Lew Barton recording for the

University of Florida's History Department and their American

Indian Oral History Progam. This afternoon is November 2, as I

said, 1974 and we are in Silver Springs, Maryland, in the home of

Mrs. Doris Atwood. Now with me is Mr. Larry Warria# and he s~goin

to talk to me about music of yesteryear. Larry , I understand yo
5or4 c
4 Van expert on yesterday's music. you've got all these

wonderful recordings of the paste

W: I do have a fine collection.

B: - is that a Victrola machine? How old is that machine,

Larry?

W: Well, ___ ,bout 1902 model.

B: A 1902 model. Do you think it would operate?

W: Oh, sure. 1 it has the -Irr , the windup. e'li ry

a record if y6u'd like to hear one.

B: Okay. Listen, you wind these machines up, don't you. This is a floor
model. It s called

W: Victrola. Manufactured by Victrola Talking Machines. C 3'u, New

Jersey, U.S.A.



W:'atented in the United States andioreign Countries. Tl 9 wat it

says.

B: f . Let's see, iet's hear what it sounds like, Larry.

W: Okay. The first tune 4e19 play will be Lucilia

B: The Lucia Sextet?

W: Right.

B: Lucia, right?

W: Right.


LUM 19 7 A










LUM 197 A


B: U Let's hear just a little bit of what they sounded like. 1 s

amw-, thajjdated about 1902, right? W: Right.

B: Alright, I wonder what'it's oing to sound like.
MUSIIC


B: Wwe got an idea of what it sounds like. That really sounds

loud, doesn't it? - . ? Is there any

way to adjust the volume on that Larry? W: By the doors. Let me. B: By the doors.





W: By the closing and opening of the doors. It smothers the sound. B: Oh, I see. In other words, you don't ave a switch on there you can

turn it up and down with, do you?

W: No, "aW "this was made strictly without electricity. B: It was recorded without electricity? W: Right.

B: And w playing it without electricity, rilft? You just turn the

cranks, to wind it up.

W: Right. Here'sone I know you remember, a fne Autry tune. B: Oh, good. Whats that. Wh is the name of that one?

W: "I'm Thinking Tonight of My Blue Eyes" B: Oh, yes. Wha~7 the label on there? What record is that? What

company?

W: Okeh.

B: Okeh records. Oh, that's an old firm. I k )robably been out of business










LUM197 A


for years. Okay , let's see what some of that sounds like. This

is Gene Autry in his hayday. Can you imagine him playing, was there

a date on there , Larry?



B: There should be a date on there. They used to date all these records.

But, I remember Gene Autry very wl. Gene Autry , of course, �,.

was a cowboy actor and a great idol. W: Here we go.

MUsIC

B: Oh, me. ____ ___ ___ ____ __,__. W: 11-- d0o' rr- speed control? B:

W: And I think the slowest speed on it is about 78. B: U . Well, thtlsj)surprisingly good considering they did it without

electricity.

W: It is.

B: 1 they sang directly into a horn, like, when they were recording

this.

END MUSIC

B: eellcut it off right there and, because we vant to play somejore of

these. What have you got there, Larry?

W: Just to show you that a good voice never fails, here's a little

White Christmas by Bing Crosby.

B: Oh, that's an old too. I Zqstill a goody. 1 White

Christmas has become a classic. Some of these recordings may skip a

little bit. They may, ai=r they're very old, and very delicate.

MUSIC










LUM 197 A


I think Bing Crosb, . . .i among the four people who have

sold more records in history than anybody else. Is that right? W: Yes.

MORE MUSIC

W: It is skipping, I'll have to get over maybe to the center. B: Umttww.

MORE MUSIC

(Dog barks) B: Oh, me W: inaudible

(Dog barks, again)

B: C-jirL wants to get into the act here. He has a good

German Shepard dog . her name is K ; I . She wants to get

in to the act, too.

(Dog whines, in time to music)

B: The sound quality is amazingly good considering the conditions we(v

described, right Larry? W: Yes, sir. B: Wha(J the label on this record, Larry? W: Decca Records. This is Decca Records B: Right.

MUSIC ENDS

B: Well, let us stop it right there because <Sl cting up a little bit.

The threads on it are worn probably.

W: Here'sa 1903 recording I think yo '11 emember.

MUSIC









LUM 197 A


B: U m girlW: 1903.

B: Is this Bing too? W:.Vhis is a choir. B: It was Edison, of course, who invented what people called then"talking

machines". We call them now, stereos and record players and that sort

of thing. Thomas Edison invented this machine long ago. People thought

he was a nut when he went around talking about recording human voices in

wax.

W: Right.

B: But he accomplished it, didn't he? And they still record voices in was,

Larry.

MUSIC CONTINUES

B: Okay

MUSIC ENDS

W: You can tell the thickness of these records, th ,,

B: Th6y't very heavy, arent they? W: Right.

B: Wonder if they broke easily, Larry? W: No, C Q these have been around for quite a while. B: Well, they use about half as much wax in the records now as they did then.

They made them very thick for some reason. But I suppose tha<$ the way

you had to do it back then, right? W: Right.

B: WhaE'j the name of that one y(Q looking at?

W: This is a *Perfect Day". B: "A Perfect Day". Who does that one? W: Imperial Quartet, this is a male quartet. B: Is that record dated , Larry?










LUM 197 A


W: Its~ 1903.

B: 1903. Let's hear a little bit of that. Tha )interesting. , ) ust

keep talking while you4 change the records there.

W: Maybe I should wind him.

B: Yei, you better wind him, because I forget that, don't you? W: Right

B: And Awhen it rung down, of course, it slows up and it distorts the

sound. (e sgot it wound up and u'r about ready to go now.

W: You have to wait on these turntables to pick up their speed-tlthe're

run by strings.

B: T=h. Kind of like winding a watch, only .s).a bigger

mechanism, right?

W: Right e & Y at!,

MUSIC BEGINS

B: Well, th t, the old barbar-shop quartet type singers, isn't it? W: Right.

B: "When you come to the end of a perfect day." (quoting record) Okay,

woj stop it right there, Larry. Do you have something else over

there you re looking at?

W: Right. ( trying to look for maybe a good march tune, or something. B: A good march tune.

W: T v found one here. This is a Victor. W'syy the Victor

Millery Band, D.W. Reeb. This is dated September 22, 1903. B: FI've) never heard of the gentleman. W: March Ircrc . Let's see what it(J like.
B: Okay. this is interesting to me. I hopeQi' interesting to


others as well.


MUSIC BEGINS









LUM 197 A


B: Tha 'a really arousing march, isn't it? t'6 stuck, I believe.

MUSIC CONTINUES

B: These bands were quite good back then, weren't they? W: Right.

MUSIC CONTINUE

W: Now let me tell you how the volume works. I )close one door. B: When you close one door, that cuts the volume down. W: Right. Now both doors. B: tf=*=u.

W: See, if you did have B: It smothers the volume. W: Right.

B:

W: Now with one door open. Now both. B: Udma. T nt' amazing.

MUSIC ENDS

B: Larry, I wonder if yo jjj got anything here by Stephen Collins Foster or

Stephen Foster Collins? W: Let me look in here. B: istbs tephen Collins Foster. W: Right, yet,. B: You know, he& j the very famous composer who gave us such songs as

"Old Kentucky Home" W: I have that one. B: "Old Black Joe", you have "Old Kentucky Home"? W: Right, I on! know who made it but I have it. B: Well, yo&' got a fabulous collection.
N~J


-7









LUM 197 A


W: Right. Here it is, "My Old Kentucky Home" and it's by Stephen Foster. B: Yes, he wrote that. W: Right.

B: But who's singing it? W: ,' Lj k with orchestra in English. Alma Cluck. Alright, this

is a 1902.

B: dJ,)iated 1902. W: Right. It even has the price: a dollar - fifty in the United States.

It has the dollar sign on it.

B: (laughs) How about that. Well, the prices -then haven't changed much

over the years, have they? W: No.

B: The prices remain about the same even in inflationary times I imagine

you can get a record for about two dollars, can't you? W: Yes.
Collins
B: They, okay, let's hear some of Stephen VFoster's "Old Folks at Home" if

we can get this

W: Wind him up ta't B: Yeai-, you got to wind-% forget about winding it. You can hear him

winding it, I guess and you can tell about how long it takes to wind

it. hm

W: Now , we got a nice tight spring. Get ready. Here we go.

MUSIC BEGINS

B: Thaq a beautiful melody, isn't it--.--- Stephen Collins

Foster. You might say he is the grandfather of country and western.

He also wrote "Suwanned River" , "Camptown Races" things like this.

And "I'm Dreaming of Jeanie with the1 Hair".









LUM 197 A


W: Let me see. I think I have p somewhere here, I'm')not positive.

B: "Suwannee River", it's probably a different a- from the one he did, but

you know "Srannee, SGannee"? W: No.

B: It's pretty old, too. People play it today. It'secome one of the

classics and people play it quite frequently. Maybe you cnuld find

us one of those. Yo v got a fabulous collection here.

MUSIC ENDS

W: Well Lew, I found that copy of " 4annee". B: Okay. Let's see what it sounds like) .AJ--r (J! W: George Gershwin, is that how it goes? B: George Gershwin?

W: Right.

B: Yeah.

W: This is a September 22, 1903. B: C I didk Ct~realize that song was that old because icistill played

very frequently today, isn't it?
S
W: Yeah, it says saxaphone, xylophone and piano for dancing. This is

E~annee-One Step. I guess that one-step means some kinfof an old

type dance, right?

B: Right, right.

W: Swannee has got a dash.

(Third person in background--designated by "T") T: Yeadt, yea, thoas a one-step. B: Like a one step, two-step, three-step. W: V

T.: That's a one-step, two-step, three-steps, four. W: Five potato., six potatoes, seven potato&, more.








10 LUM 197 A

MUSIC BEGINS

B: That xylophone's recorded well, isn' t it? W: IOS good.

B: Okays-', . W: Here{) some of the words to that, Lew, could you sing along with that? B: (Lew sings) . will see me no/ more, when I get to that s'annee

Shore.

How I love you, How I love you my dear old Sannee.

(inaudible)

W: I guess back then they didn't know what a fuzz box and a wa-wa was? B: No, not at all - ,A

Have you ever noticed that the tone quality is different with different
t
instruments and differen6.people seem to have voices especially suited

to this type of recording like Bing Crosby and like Gene Autry. Speaking

of entertainers of yesteryear, I think you have something by Wild
e
Bill and the Twxas Playboys?

W: Right. I believe you picked it out and laid it over here. Yei, here

it is. It's got "Home in San Antone" B: San Antone?

W: Right. And Miss Molly B: Oh , yeah. Let's play a little bit of them.

MUSIC ENDS

W: Wild Bill

B: And the Texas Playboys. W: Right.

B: h they were quite popular d maybe, twenty-five, thirty years ago.

And af longer back than that. 90 It sounded like the nee le's worn.

You have to change these needles. They wear out. They have to do heavy

duty on this type of machine, I imagine. And the tone arm-is quite









LUM 197 A


heavy, isn't it Larry?

W? t . .Okay, here we go. I had tolchange the needle.

MUSIC BEGINS

B: I think
W: Wind him up. B: Let's try it again. :. we forgot to wind up the machini4hat time.

Oh, thank you.

MUSIC CONTINUES B: They were strictly western , weren't they?

MUSIC CONTINUES B: Tha's~ a steel guitar there, that's electric, isn't it?

Inaudible

W: Thajx not electric. B: Well Larry, the sound quality of tha' not too good. We et something else if you will. Larry, do yau have numbers, you know, that are strictly country? Like, say like,"urkey in the Straw" in the

way they used to do it way back?

W: I can try to find. Let me see what this will do7

Some of these haven't been played in over a year.

MUSIC BEGINS

B: "Y)like to give my dog to Uncle Sam" (Barton quoted records)

(Inaudible)





B: No, I think that was WW I, Larry. Wedllhave to check the date on that MUSIC CONTINUES B: (inaudible) ) W: "Memories of the War"








LUM 197 A


MUSIC ENDS

B: Vqcheck;the date on that, Larry, see if it has a date on it. I believe

that's WW I.

W: On this one here.' "I'd like to Give My Dog to Uncle Sam". B: "I'd Like to Give My Dog to Uncle Sam". RM people doQ3 have

that spirit nowadays, or at least they didjjuring the Asian war.

The attitude was quite different than during WW I and WW II. Of course,

the Asian war was a quite unpopular war throughout the world. Larry,

as you know, music is quite historilVal because, like literature, music

reflects the action of the day and the attitudes of the day.

W: Well, her 4snej ie- February, 1904. This is a Victor

record. Conway's Dance, i" "Memories of thtWar". B: "Memories of the War"

W: Right. It says .

B: That must be the Civil War their talking about there W: Well it's got different songs. I A ) "Tramp, the Boys are Marching",

"Johnny Brown's Body", "When Johnny Comes Marching Home' B: Oh, yea, that's the Civil War now W: "Marching Through Georgia," "The Battle Cry of Freedom', "Arkansas

Traveller", "Bugle Calls and Drums", "Dixie Star Spangled Banner" B: 1 .

W: Dixie, you know "Dixie".

B: Oh yeA, J let's play all that "Dixie" stuff.

W: Okay , well here goes. Let me wind up real good. B: Southern music certainly reflected the attitude of ' the people

during that day.

W: I hope this record doe 't skip any. B: -N , I hope so too, Larry.










LUM 197 A


MUSIC BEGINS W: Let me change thea needle in this, Lew.

B: Okay, Larry, let's hear that. That sounds interesting.

W:b-K f-j. VThese needles are over twenty or

twenty-five years oldB: Is that right?

W: Thts ight.


END SIDE ONE








LUM 197 A


SIDE TWO

B: If you forget to wind her up, y 6ue out of luck. W: Th4t's right. Sge'll ure quit on you. See if you can tell me the

name of this.

B: Okay.

MUSIC BEGINS

B. f"Turkey in the Straw". Tht' real folk song. R

W: I have another here I want to play. B: WhatsIhe date on that one , Larry? W: I'llave to look after I pick it up.
\ . --A
B: Okay.

MUSIC CONTINUES

B: I believe 1e'Dslaying a concertina or an accordian--one or the other.

H{13 ood at it, too.

MlSIC CONTINUES

B: I like that.

AND CONTINUES

B: Larry, I understand that your folks, on your mother's side, were

quite talented musically, is that true?

W: Yes, it seems like all of them played different instruments. I have an

uncle ob- that used to ride a bicycle when he was maybe twelve

or thirteen and play the guitar. Just ride around and play.

AND CONTINUES

MUSIC ENDS

B: Let's look at the date on that and see if it has a date on it, Larry.

This is a number thas played ,#rA by every country and western band

in the country, the dance number, squarjdance number. W: TI- January 5, 1904.










LUM 197 A


B: 1904, thqs)uite something. Every country band in the world plays

that sometimeg)y kn- L t's ' good square dance number. They do it W: Let me try this. Let me see. B: What'sIhe name of that one? W: Let me see if you remember it. B: Okay.

MUSIC BEGINS

B: That'san Irish singing. I believe th ls')n Irish tune. Oh, that's

"My Wild Irish Rose" I believe. W: Right.

B: I love that refrain. "The sweetest flower that grows" (Barton quotes song)

"You may search everywhere, but none can compare with my wild Irish rose."

That sounded a little sexy there on the end: "And someay for my sake,

tey. may let me take, all the blooms from my wild Irish rose".

W: uw# YQ

B: 4'lljket that was con ered to be very risque in that day.

MUSIC CONTINUES

B: (singing) "My wild Irish Rose, the sweetest flower that grows.

You ma!y search everywhere, but none can compare with my wild Irish rose.

My wild Irish rose, the sweetest flower that grows.

And someday for mp sake, they may let me take

The blooms from f my wild Irish rose"

MUSIC ENDS

B: Well, I fixed him up, didn't I. Do 't you have another song there

written by Stephen Collins Foster, like "MassU in the Cold, Cold

Ground" ?

W: Rights









LUM 19 7 A


B: Let's play a little bit of that.

MUSIC BEGINS

MUSIC CONTINUES
W: he~es Gene Aixqx Austin.


B: lim=kmv He was e--6ntertainer, too, in the country and western

field.

MUSIC ENDS

B: Larry, i interesting to bnow that ftephen Collins Foster, although

he wrote about the South all the time and is know everywhere for his

southern music, was not actually a southerner. He was born in

Pennsylvania. He was born and brought up in Pennsylvania.

MUSIC BEGINS

B: M i')s tuck. e stuck on eihta".

W: Well, so much for that. B: Ye!. TBats kind of cute. a novelty song.

W: must reminiscing here, just playing somelifferent ones.

MORE MUSIC

B: A 5. Well, you kow something? It'd amazing that you could get

any sound at all out of these records as -.old as they are. And out

of this machine as old as it is. Right, Larry? 9: Right.

You a'~~t find a machine like this anywhere that I know of, not today.

It still works, I guess there are a few around, but these records are

very old and they halrn ?t lost too much of their original sound; except the grooves break through"-'they run into each other. What have you got

there , Larry? Something that looks interesting? W: It'l11et you pronounce it. B: " '- is there a date on this?

W: - no.










17 LUM 197 A

B: Lets just see what it sounds like, Larry. q , I'mfascinated by

these old records. This certAinly gives you an index as to what

music was like yesterday.

MUSIC BEGINS

B: ItfDj3 uck.



W: Yes. Chopin

B: Chopin was a great master in his day.


MUSIC ENDS

B: Would you check and see if it has a date on it A too? This is Chopin,

one of the great masters of all time. ] is *amazing how many of the

popular songs take these old melodies by the great masters of yesteryear

and put modern lyrics to them. This is done very frequently. W: I d ')tee a date on there. B: For example, Elvis Presley took the melody "Oh Solo Mio" and wrote

a modern song about it)$t least he recorded it. The name of this

is "There's No Tomorrow", (sings) There's no tomorrow. The last two

lines go: "There's no tomorrow. There's just tonight." I believe it went, "It's now or never'.Y is the name of tthat song, (sings) It's now

or never, come hold me tight. Kiss me my darling, be mine tonight.

Tomorrow may be to late, It's now or never, my love can't wait"

Tha % the way that went, of it, Elvis Presley did. I was a little
N:b
mited up on my int there.

W: Wk is Pearl Bailey?

B: W goes back quite a way. Let's see what its'like.

MUS C BEGINS

W: A lot of people do that today. B: Things haveqj changed very much.










LUM 19 7 A


MUSIC CONTINUES






B: That just goes to show you that the love themes and all, the laments

and complaints have changed very little basically over the years,

although the ways of presenting them certainly changes. And the music

itself changes.

W: Here-' one you hear every once in a while. B: Still hear it every once in a while? W? Right? I heard it in a movie not too long ago.

Wxxx ra MUSIC BEGINS

MUSiLC ENDS

W: Just a minute. (Pm going to have to change my needle again. B: ~mIu.These needles wear out very quickly. I think maybe you can

play a couple of records with one needle, and then you have to put

a new needle in it, because that tone arm is very hea4and they

wear down very quickly . While y u 're doing that, by the way, Larry,

how far are we here in Silver Springs, how far is this from Washington,

D.C.?

W2. Maybe seven miles. B: About seven miles from Washington. W: To the White House. B: mha

MUSIC BEGINS

B: I believe that was WW II, wasn't it? W: I believe it was. B: You need to wind it again, Larry MUSIC CONTINUES









LUM 197 A


B: I sa cute arrangement, isn't it? B: Is that a sax?

W: Nshh. .

B: Uh oh.

MUSIC ENDS

B: -A is there a date on that one, Larry? I believe thaJWWII. 1

not sure. At least they were playing it during WW II. It was quite popular then, but it might have been written earlier and that record

might be earlier than WW II. Is it dated at all? W: It doe nR ave a date on it. B: I see.

W: Hereo one. It says "Country Blues" Redball Rocket Train, Mack O'Dell. B: Mack O'Dell, okay. Wi Mercury94 iS B: Mercury 2

W: And this is getting . I B: Mercury Records. W: Right

MUSIC BEGINS

B: The tone quality on that is pretty poor, isn't it? W: Yea, io)poor. B: I noticed that the steel guitar hre\playing on there is a non-electrified

steel guitar. J('s hat they call in the business a "hound dog" guitar.

In other words, it's played with the- steel but i('s ot electrically

amplified.



B: Larry, some of these old hymns really date back. For example, one









LUM 197 A


record ran across in your collection is called "Take Up Thy Cross and

Follow Me". Do you remember who does that on there?
W: t .

B: These hymns are quite old.
DZ,l Doc2.
W: Homer, Roberta and 3 a .

B: V . Let's see what that sounds like. This is ' church music,

really _you know. This is "Take Up Thy Cross and Follow Me". it still played sometimes in country and western circles today.

I4� still pretty popular.

MUSIC BEGINS

B: n1T'9 efinitely a church organ, isn't it? W : Right.

B: (quoting record)

I walked one day along a country road

And there a stranger journied too.

Then lo, beneath the burden of his cross

There was a cross, a cross I knew.

I cried "Lord Jesus" and He spoke my name

I saw his hands all bruised and torn

I stooped to kiss away that mark of ct'yiC,
-S cv.e
The p for me that He had born.

Take up thy cross and follow me I hear the blessed savior call



And Jesus gave his all

My cross carry till the crown appears

And though my journey soon will end









LUM 197 A


And God himself can wife away our tears And fellowship


W: Inaudible

B: Inaudible

B: MUSIC ENDS

B: Larry, this is the second interview with you that I'v done W: . The last one was in Pembroke, North Carolina

B: light.

W: And now We"re in D.C.

B: Right. But this shows your tremendous interest in music and that

you really work at it and that you do have a genuine interest. About

how many of these records do you think you have? W: I ie got a - .',tb-ee.

B: i 4Q

W: But the majority of them skip, and, 'tt it's een a year since

JC jyeen up here last and I fired it up then, but I di 't play but

one or two.

B: l All these were quite old records. This shows that you have

a $deep and abiding interest in music and, of course, this talent

dates back z among your family. Larry, w~v been listening to all these sold records on thievery old machine. This machine is probably

ab0gt 70 years old, and some of the recordsV'e almost that old or maybe

that old. And now, we want to switch for contrast and listen for a moment to some of the modern music. You can see that there are some similarities

but there is quite a switch--quite a bit of difference in the rhythm,

wouldn't you say?

W: Yes.










LUM 197 A


B: f now who is this ydu re oing to put on there? W: The Doobie Brothers. B: The Doobie Brothers.

W: The title of the song is "Nobody". B: "Nobody", by the Doobie Brothers. This is quite modern. This is ,

would you cal this hard rock, Larry?

MUSIC BEGINS

B: Of course, this is electrically amplified with all electric instruments,

just about. MUSIC ENDS

W: Th/t's ome of the Doobie's. Let's see if I can find another one. Here

one I like.
B. *w*VNV. \&c-z"

W . very much.

B: Wh s the name of it , Larry? W: "Greenwood Creek". B: And it s y the Doobie Brothers?too? Okay.

MUSIC BEGINS

B: Of course, this electrically a lified recording and electrical

instruments and everything& Just to show you they really are improved,

arent they?

W: Right. MUSIC ENDS

B: Larry, I sure appreciate your giving me this interview. Iseen

.W very enlightening and very enjoyable and I want to thankour aunt

and your grandmother 6frcourse, for allowingIS to come into your home,

to their home here.


END TRANSCRIPT




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Russ Hyden 1 LUM 197 A B: \ This is November 2, 1974. I.'_1' Lew Barton recording for the University of Florida's History Department and their American Indian Oral History ProJam. This afternoon is November 2, as I said, 1974 and we are in Silver Springs, Maryland, in the home of Mrs. Doris Atwood. Now with me is Mr. Larry Warria} and heGgoint to talk to me about music of yesteryear. Larry, I undirstand yo 'iJ 50,+oi: i\ Van expert on yesterday's music. Yffif~.cWt:t you've got all these J ----~ wonderful recordings of the paS1:(i) W: I do have a fine collection. B: ~ftb'Dtt~riat;, is that a Victrola machine? How old is that machine, Larry? W: Well, i~)bouX'902 model. B: A 1902 model. Do you think it would operate? W: Oh, sure. ~:a. :!:_t has the c1 Q(;.">r .S a record if y6?~iike to hear one. B: Okay. Listen, you wind these machines up, don't you. This is a floor model. ft~~ called ~~tti:e:::~--e, 'iib"$ ,_..,_.,.. W: Victrola. Manufactured by Victrola Talking Machines. O:>nO-d 11 (,, New Jersey, U.S.A.) ,a~ W: ~tented in the /Yi United States and1oreign Countries. ~at it says. B: lfm tfffllhLet's see, iiet's hear what it sounds like, Larry. W: Okay. The first tune{~ play will be Lucilia B: The Lucia Sextet? W: Right. B: Lucia, right? W: Right.

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2 LUM 197 A B: Let's hear just a little bit of what they sounded like.
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--------3 LUM197 A for years. Okay, let's see what some of that sotm.ds like. This is Gene Autry in his hayday. Can you imagine him playing, was there a date on there, Larry? B: There should be a date on there. They used to date all these records. But, I remember Gene Autry very w'i{l. Gene Autry, of course,~ was a cowboy actor and a great idol. W: Here we go. MUSIC B: Oh, me. ? I ('_11 ),-• W: f' r : speed control? B : -Um •RJ:11Jll, W: And I think the slowest speed on it is about 78. B: !J!u:=1!!!• Well, t~~surprisingly good considering they did it without electricity. W: B: It is. ~{hey sang directly into a horn, like, when they were recording this. END MUSIC B: ~cut it off right there and, because we '.'ant to play somerore of these. What have you got there, Larry? W: Just to show you that a good voice never fails, here's a little White Christmas by Bing Crosby. B: ~1 ,e Oh, tha(van oldg too. ' 1 IC)still a goodf. lmaur;, White Christmas has become a classic. Some of these recordings may skip a little bit. They may, ~e111e1 C u,e, they're very old, and very delicate. MUSIC I I J

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4 LUM 197 A \5 I think Bing Crosby-,-s3l 1 abm11:t, Bct'+'e among the four people who have sold more records in history than anybody else. Is that right? W: Yes. MORE MUSIC W: It is skipping, I'll have to get over maybe to the center. B: W: (Dog barks) Oh, m~ ,,.) inaudible (Dog barks, again) MORE MUSIC B: ___ (_:;_,_r_l_. ______ wants to get into the act here. He has a good German Shepard dog her name is in to the act, too. (Dog whines, in time to music) She wants to get B: The sound quality is amazingly good considering the conditions we~ described, right Larry? W: Yes, sir. B: Wha~he label on this record, Larry? W: Decca Records. This is Decca Records B: Right. MUSIC ENDS B: Well, let us stop it right there becaase f;}i)cting up a little bit. The threads on it are wom probably. W: Her&)a 1903 recording I think yoemember. MUSIC

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5 B: ffin.ih.m,. girla -~ C:;) W: 1903. B: Is this Bing too? w:f-:3/fhis is a choir. (' LUM 197 A B: It was Edison, course, who invented what people called then"talking machines". We call them now, stereos and record players and that sort of thing. Thomas Edison invented this machine long ago. People thought he was a nut when he went around talking about recording human voices in wax. W: Right. B: But he accomplished it, didn't he? And they still record voices in wai', Larry. MUSIC CONTINUES B: Okay-.:9 MUSIC ENDS W: You can tell the thickness of these records, th~, , , B: Th~ very heavy, arerit they? W: Right. B: Wonder if they broke easily, Larry? W: No, these have been around for quite a while. B: Well, they use about half as much wax in the records now as they did then. They made them very thick for some reason. But I suppose tha~ the way you had to do it back then, right? W: Right. B: WhaG the name of that one y6 looking at? I\ W: This is a *Perfect Day". B: "A Perfect Day". Who does that one? W: Imperial Quartet, this is a male quartet. B: Is that record dated, Larry?

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6 LUM 197 A W: tt_~~ 1903. B: 1903. Let'1 hear a little bit of that. Th~interesting. ~ust keep talking while you~, change the records there. W: B: W: B: W: B: W: B: W: Maybe I should wind him. Yeiit, you better wind him, because I forget that, don't you? Right And ~when it runs down, of course, it slows up and it distorts the sound. E:)sot it wound up and~ about ready to go now. You have to wait on these turntables to pick up their spee~,ttt:het~ run by strings. Tim 1 m. r-, . ...._ Kind of like winding a watch, only it's 1htP.S!!!!:::. a bigger .. ____ ,/ mechanism, right? MUSIC BEGINS Well, th0 the old barbar-shop quartet type singers, isn't it? Right. B: "When you come to the end of a perfect day." (quoting record) Okay, w@~stop it right there, Larry. Do you have something else over W: B: there yo~looking at? {~ Right. ~!3 trying to look for maybe a good march tune, or something. A good march trme. W: 'Vnrsl mm f3 found one here. This is a Victor. rf~y the Victor 1/{',S Millery Band, D.W. ReeOI. This is dated September 22, 1903. B: never heard of the gentleman. W: March FrDfC'1 I Let's see "'11:~:~what i~ like. B: Okay. ~-!his is interesting to me. I hope(:=-' interesting to others as well. MUSIC BEGINS

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7 LUM 197 A B: Tha~ really arousing march, isn't it'? stuck, I believe. MUSIC CONTINUES B: These bands were quite good back then, weren't they'? W: Right. MUSIC CONTINlfS!i W: Now let me tell you how the volume works. I~close one door. B: When you close one door, that cuts the volume down. W: Right. Now both doors. B: W: See, if you did have B: It smothers the volume. W: Right. B: --W: Nowwith one door open. Now both. B: tt,a:;tm,,(. Th~_9 amazing. MUSIC ENDS B: Larry, I wonder i~ yoegot anything here by Stephen Collins Foster or Stephen Foster Collins'? W: Let me look in here. B: I(~tephen Collins Foster. ~. W: Right, yeta,. B: You know, the very famous composer who gave us such songs as "Old Kentucky Home" , W: I have that one. B: "Old Black Joe", you have "Old Kentucky Home"? W: Right, I know who made it but I have it. B: Well, yo~ got a fabulous collection.

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8 LUM 197 A W: Right. Here it is, "My Old Kentucky Home" and it's by Stephen Foster. B: Ye._, he wrote that. W: Right. B: But who's singing it? W: C . _)'J pt Ir c"',-, with orchestra in English. Alma Cluck. Alright, this is a 1902. B: r@ated 1902. W: Right. \ . ------.. It even has the price: a dollar fifty in the United States. It has the dollar sign on it. B: (laughs) How about that. Well, the prices then haven't changed much over the years, have they? W: No. B: The prices remain about the sameJeven in inflationary times I imagine you can get a record for about two dollars, can't you? W: Yes. ColJ,.ins B: They, okay, let's hear some of Stephei:}/Foster's "Old Folks at Home" if W: B: we can get this "'JO;.c:/, Wind him up jit:rat Ye~, you got to wind-•t'd"-'"orget about winding it. J -~ You can hear him winding it, I guess and you can tell about how long it takes to wind it. 1JJH:::hmm W: Now, we got a nice tight spring. Get ready. Here we go. MUSIC BEGINS c~ 1 B: Tha~ a beautiful melody, isn't it .. .;;;;;::;::;_::-.::~.:-.--"":2:Stephen Collins Foster. You might say he is the grandfather of CO\llltry and western. He also wrote "Suwannee River" , "Camptown Races" things like this. L,.:zh+ fbm,J-r.... And "I'm Dreaming of Jeanie with the~ Hair".

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9 LUM 197 A St..'--VJ(ir1 ('.C• W: Let me see. I think I have .s@ somewhereai here, !~not positive. '-~ Cf•/ .. L B: "Suwannee River", it's probably a different a:am.efrom the one he did, but you know "~annee, lannee"? W: No. B: rt-~) pretty old, too. People play it today. r. ' It~ecome one of the w: classics and people play it quite frequently. Maybe you could find I us one of those. YoG got a fabulous collection here. MUSIC ENDS ~Well Lew, I found that copy of "::>wannee". B: Okay. Let I s see what it sounds like "it.t.fjf..J..,:;,_r r 1 j., ) . W: George Gershwin, is that how it goes? B: George Gershw;i.n? W: Right. S, B: Yea. W: This is a September 22, 1903. B: 'Clll!!tlr.' I did@ealize that song was that old because i~~till played very frequently today, isn't it? s W: Yeah, it says saxaphone, xylophone and piano for dancing. This is B: w: T: ~';;!.-:;wannee-One Step. I guess that one-step means some kin1of an old type dance, right? Right, right. !:? Swannee has got a dash. (Third person in .5 ..s C.\ Ye:-,, yeab,, t~a background--designated by "T") one-step. B: Like a one step, two-step, three-step. T_: That's a one-step, two-step, thll!ee-steps, four. W: Five potatoe, six potatoe, seven potatoe, more.

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10 LUM 197 A MUSIC BEGINS B: That xyl<;>phonG recorded well, isn' t it? W: r@good. W: B: HerGsome of the words to that, Lew, could you sing along with that? (Lew sings) Shore. L\ will see me no/ more, when I get to that &annee How I love you, How I love you my dear old s&annee. (inaudible) W: I guess back then they didn't know what a fuzz box and a wa-wa was? ') . . ' B: No, not at all __ ..___--'1'--'r_,_C_c'""U_--_,_A_i\_.,,._<, __ r'. ______________ _ Have you ever noticed that the tone quality is different with different -t instruments and differen6.people seem to have voices especially suited to this type of recording like Bing Crosby and like Gene Autry. Speaking of entertainers of yesteryear, I think you have something by Wild e.. Bill and the Twxas Playboys? W: Right. I believe you picked it out and laid it over here. Yeilt, here it is.. It's got "Home in San Antone" B: San Antone? W: Right. And Miss Molly B: Oh, yeah. Let's play a little bit of them. w: B: W: B: MUSIC ENDS Wild Bill s And the Texan Playboys. Right. ~-they were quite popular 4ili) maybe, twenty-five, thirty years ago. And 4l't. longer back than that. -~ It sounded like the nee~worn. You have to change these needles. They wear out. They have to do heavy duty on this type of machine, I imagine. And the tone arm•is quite

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11 LUM 197 A heavy, isn't it Larry? W? iJ l mm Okay, here we go. B: I think ~tuck. W: Wind him up. I had tobhange the needle. I MUSIC BEGINS r----...... ..___~) Let's try it again. -~~e forgot to wind up the maching'that time. B: / Oh, thank you. MUSIC CONTINUES B: They were strictly western -p::rC~".)r ,.' I.re;, weren't they? I MUSIC CONTINUES B: Tha(iJa steel guitar there, that\s electric, isn't it? Inaudible W: Th~not electric. B: Well Larry, the sound quality of tha(s not too good. We0et some thing else if you will. Larry, do you have numbers, you know, that are strictly country? Like, say like, 11 furkey in the Straw" in the way they used to do it way back? W: I can try to find. Let me see what this will' doJ---------Some of these haven't been played in over a year. MUSIC BEGINS B: "~like to give my dog to Uncle Sam" (Barton quoted records) (Inaudible) w: ls B: No, I think that was WW I, Larry. B: W: ") (inaudible) MUSIC CONTINUES "Memories of the War" ' ',_ We~ll\have to check the date on that ',_)

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12 LUM 197 A MUSIC ENDS B: ~heck~the date on that, Larry, see if it has a date on it. I believe that's WW I. W: On this one here. 1 "I'd like to Give My Dog to Uncle Sam". B: "I'd Like to Give My Dog to Uncle Sam". people do0 have that spirit nowadays, or at least they di~uring the Asian war. The attitude was quite different than during WW I and WW II. Of course, the Asian war was a quite unpopular war throughout_ the world. Larry, as you know, music is quite histor~l because, like literature, music reflects the action of the day and the attitudes of the day. W: R] \, il\C~ ~ell, her(0ne1 i(v February, 1904. This is a Victor record. Conway's Dance, it,3' "Memories of th,War". B: "Memories of the War" W: Right. It says B: That must be the Civil War their talking about there W: Well it~ got different songs. IG"Tramp, the Boys are Marching", "Johnny Brown's Body", "When Johnny Comes Marching Home'; B: Oh, ye~, that's the Civil War now W: "Marching Through Georgia," "The Battle Cry of Freedo&\ 1 , "Arkansas Traveller", "Bugle Calls and Drums", "Dixie Star Spangled Banner" B: YII l AU!• W: Dixie, you know "Dixie". <"" ..... B: Oh ye&, .iJiialli.,._, let's play all that "Dixie" stuff. W: Okay, well here goes. Let me wind up real good. d ,..,...,-----, B: Southern music certainly reflectef the attitude of ::dtiki.inq the people during that day. W: I hope this record doe~ skip any. B: Hm::::lw&, I hope so too, Larry.

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13 MUSIC BEGINS W: Let me change the 'liii1t;, needle in this, Lew. B: Okay, Larry, let's hear that. That sounds interesting. W: twenty-five years old B: Is that right? W: Th8ight. END SIDE ONE LUM 197 A

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B: W: If you forget Th~right. name of this. 14 LUM 197 A SIDE TWO to wind her up, y~out of luck. ,tr.--..., s~.:~=_~ure quit on you. See if you can tell me the B: Okay. MUSIC BEGINS B~. "Turkey in the Straw". Th~~") real folk song. W: B: W: B: I have another here I want to play. Wha~e date on that one, Larry? (r7l~ave to look after I pick it up. ~---__/ Okay. MUSIC CONTINUES B: I believe @1aying a concertina or an accordian--one or the other. H~ood at it, too. MllISIC CONTINUES B: I like that. AND CONTINUES B: Larry, I tmderstand that your folks, on your m~ther's side, were I..../ quite talented musically, is that true? W: Yes, it seems like all of them played different instruments. I have an that used to ride a bicycle when he was maybe twelve or thirteen and play the guitar. Just ride arotmd and play. AND CONTINUES MUSIC ENDS B: Let's look at the date on that and see if it has a date on it, Larry. This is a number tha\3played ,rJ\J\\ by every country and western band in the country, the dance number, squar~dance number. , -'.'O r . dor ... .(,:'.\ W: TI\'b January 5, 1904.

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-------------------------------------------------B: 15 LUM 197 A 1904, th&uite something. that sometime~yru=,kn-ew, [t,~). :;::.___, e Every country band in the world plays good square dance number. They do it W: Let me try this. Let me see. B: Whatr'~the name of that one? , __ ,,.,--~ W: Let me see if you remember it. B: Okay. MUSIC BEGINS 0;~ B: Tha~~an Irish singing. I believe th@n Irish tune. Oh, th~~-'-~ "My Wild Irish Rose" I believe. W: Right. B: I love that refrain. "The sweetest flower that grows" (Barton quotes song) "You may search everywhere, but none can compare with my wild Irish rose." That sounded a little sexy there on the end: "And som~ for my sake, 1::he;-: may let me take, all the blooms from my wild Irish rose". W: 'Hm:i_hmm-. yo~ , B: @et that was con~ered to be very risque in that day. MUSIC CONTINUES B: (singing) "My wild Irish Rose, the sweetest flower that grows. You ma,S search everywhere, but none can compare with my wild Irish rose. My wild Irish rose, the sweetest flower that grows. And someday for ~sake, they may let me take The blooms from &l. my wild Irish rose" MUSIC ENDS B: Well, I fixed him up, didn't I. Doh~').you have another song there \J I' written by Stephen Collins Foster, like "Mas~<;in the Cold, Cold Ground"? W: Right

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16 B: Let's play a little bit of that. MUSIC BEGINS MUSIC CONTINUES LUM 197 A W: ---~....;:Qo, ~ei;:f~ Gene imtnqoc Austin. C'Lf'Co.Jf-l( B: .liUI h.lHIU.He was anetft:i'l:~ntertainer, too, in the country and western field MUSIC ENDS K, .s B: Larry, i~ interesting to \now that ltephen Collins Foster, although ~ he wrote about the South all the time and is knoeverywhere for his southern music, was not actually a southerner. He was born in Pennsylvania. He was born and brought up in Pennsylvania. MUSIC BEGINS B: lffi'mnb-,. J.f~stuck. stuck on e*t;W; W: B: . W: Well, so much for that. s. /---'\ Ye1$. ~~kind of cute. a novelty sdng. t~ust reminiscing here, just playing some~fferent ones MORE MUSIC ,~"\ B: Ciel De)-, Well, you !Vow something? amazing that you could get ,.,---.., any sound at all out of these records as .:.old as they are. And out of this machine as old as it is. Right, Larry? 1J: Right. B: You fins a machine like this anywhere that I know of, not today. W: It still works, I guess there are a few around, but these records are very old and they ha~;>:i: lost too much of their original sound; except ._, C>--f\0 the grooves break through~they run into each other What have you got there, Larry? Something that looks interesting? {;;:-i\et you pronounce it. -. I --. ... ./ B: Ah, tbis fa -ah,, 'iffl.e:t-was-, ':.~s there a date on this? . no.

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17 LUM 197 A B: Leis just see what it sounds like, Larry. ~, t~~Jascinated by Cv these old records. This certiinly gives you an index as to what music was like yesterday. MUSIC BEGINS B: Ieuck. T: 71-"to~+ l 2> Cho p,r-i' '.:) W: Yes. Chopin _______ _ B: IB:attdibl.e... Chopin was a great master in his day. MUSIC ENDS ,,--__ B: Would you check and see if it has a date on it too? This is Chopin, one of the great masters of all time. ~•amazing how many of the popular songs take these old melodies by the great masters of yesteryear and put modern lyrics to them. This is done very frequently. W: I d8ee a date on there. e B: For example, Elvis Presley took the melody "Oh Solo Mio" and wrote w: B: w: B: ~' a modern song about it) f.t least he recorded it. The name of this is "There's No Tomorrow", (sings) There's no tomorrow. The last two lines go: "There's no tomorrow. There's just tonight. 11 I believe it went, "It's now or never'! is the name of lthat song, (sings) It's now or never, come hold me tight. Kiss me my darling, be mine tonight. T~morrow may be to late, It's now or never, my love can't wait" Tha~the way .x nuaed up that went, of it, Elvis Presley did. . -Cb h on my i.ntcio t ere. o..s_ WSli: is Pearl Bailey? goes back quite a way. Let's see what i~like. Mmfc BEGINS A lot of people do that today. Things have0 changed very much. I was a little

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had:ible 18 MUSIC CONTINUES LUM 197 A B: That just goes to show you that the love themes and all, the laments and complaints have changed very little basically over the years, although the ways of presenting them certainly changes. And the music its elf changes. W: Her~ one you hear every once in a while. B: Still hear it every once in a while? W? Right? I heard it in a movie not too long ago. hxxxxlmxx MUSIC BEGINS MUSIC ENDS G going to have to change my needle again. ! Just a :~inute. B: ~These needles wear out very quickly. I think maybe you can play a couple of records with one needle, and then you have to put . \~ /~------. 41 a new needle in it, because that tone arm is very hea and they wear down very quickly. While y6doing that, by the way, Larry, how far are we here in Silver Springs, how far is this from Washington, D. C.? W: Maybe seven miles. B: About seven miles from Washington. W: To the White House. B: Uazd nnmMUSIC BEGINS B: I believe that was WW II, wasn't it? W: I believe it was. B: You need to wind it again, Larry MUSIC CONTINUES

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19 B: It:)a cute arrangement, isn't it? B: Is that a sax? w: fffsb:nb '1 e5 . B: Uh oh. MUSIC ENDS LUM 197 A B: is there a date on that one, Larry? I believe tha~WWII. not sure. At least they were playing it during WW II. It was quite popular then, but it might have been written earlier and that record might be earlier than WW II. Is it dated at all? W: It doe~ave a date on it. B: I see. W: Her0 one. It says "Country Blues" Redball Rocket Train, Mack O'Dell. B: Mack O'Dell, okay. Wi Mercury _J +hi :S l 'S B: Mercury? W: And this is getting B: Mercury Records. w: Right MUSIC BEGINS B: The tone quality on that is pretty poor, isn't it? W: Ye-tit, ~poor. B: I noticed that the steel guitar ~.:i)playing on there is a non-electrified steel guitar. @hat they call in the business a "hound dog" guitar. r>' f,~ In other words, i~played with the~ steel but i~.ot electrically amplified. ltE? -=1 B: Larry, some of these old hymns "ally date back. For example, one

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20 LUM 197 A \/\J<2 recordVran across in your collection is called "Take Up Thy Cross and Follow Me". Do you remember who does that on there? W:itlr B: These h}tIDils are quite old. 1):,r,s Doe. . W: Homer, Roberta and le;ee sad Qee. B: ~Let's see what that sounds like. This is--~ church music, really ~=====::,-YOU know. This is "Take Up Thy Cross and Follow Me". {t~still played sometimes in cot.mtry and western circles today. "".. ,,-""" rQstill pretty popular. MUSIC BEGINS B: ~efinitely a church organ, isn't it? W~ Right. B: (quoting record) I walked one day along a country road And there a stranger joumied too. Then lo, beneath the burden of his cross There was a cross, a cross I knew. I cried "Lord Jesus" and He spoke my name I saw his hands all bruised and tom I stooped to kiss away that mark of sho-mC~ ..5 /"Cl;,Y,.f2.. The pGifor me that He had born. Take up thy cross and follow me I hear the blessed savior call And Jesus gave his all My cross~ carry till the crown appears And though my j oumey soon will end

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W: B: B: 21 And God himself can wipe away our tears And ________ fellowship Inaudible Inaudible MUSIC ENDS LUM 197 A B: (~, Larry, this is the second interview with you that\I've done .____,~/ W: 'Biiii I 11, The last one was in Pembroke, North Carolina ().., 'B: light. W: And now 8 in D.C, B: Right. But this shows your tremendous interest in music and that you really work at it and that you do have a genuine interest. About how many of these records do you think you have? l(, ";;, I :: ~::da::11~ ~---. ;----•.. , 1 , N: But the majority of them skip, and,~w~11 0een eeen up here last and I fired it up then, but one or two. ~r a year since I di~play but B: u, t l1111L All these were quite old records. This shows that you have a 4deep and abiding interest in music and, of course, this talent dates back a among your family. Larry, w(3been listening to all these ~old records on thitery old machine. This machine is probably abci~ 70 years old, and some of the records~e almost that old or maybe that old. And now, we want to switch for contrast and listen for a moment I to some of the modern music. You can see that there are some similaritYes but there is quite a switch--quite a bit of difference in the rhythm, wouldn't you say? W: Yes.

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22 LUM 197 A /-: , ..... ,,__, B: llta !ow who is this yd~oing to put on there? W: The Doobie Brothers. B: The Doobie Brothers. W: The title of the song is "Nobody". B: "Nobody", by the Doobie Brothers. This is quite modern. This is, ----would you cfl this hard rock, Larry? MUSIC BEGINS B: Of course, this is eledtrically amplied with all electric instruments, just about. W: one I like. B. WllllllW. Y , W very much. MUSIC ENDS Let's see if I can find another one. HeG B: Whe the name of it , Larry? W: "Greenwood Creek". B: And i{;~,)y the Doobie Brothers?too? Okay. ~--./ MUSIC BEGINS B: Of course, thi~ electrically ~lified recording and electrical in~truments and everything~ Just to show you they really are improved, arent they? W: Right. MUSIC ENDS B: Larry, I sure appreciate your giving me this interview. r0een very enlightening and very enjoyable and I want to thankrour aunt and your grandmother of~course, for allowing~ to come into your home, to their home here END TRANSCRIPT