Citation
Interview with Bertha Oxendine, February 26, 1975

Material Information

Title:
Interview with Bertha Oxendine, February 26, 1975
Creator:
Oxendine, Bertha ( Interviewee )
Publication Date:
Language:
English

Subjects

Subjects / Keywords:
Urban Lumbee Oral History Collection ( local )

Notes

Funding:
This text has been transcribed from an audio or video oral history. Digitization was funded by a gift from Caleb J. and Michele B. Grimes.

Record Information

Source Institution:
Samuel Proctor Oral History Program, Department of History, University of Florida
Holding Location:
This interview is part of the 'Urban Lumbee' collection of interviews held by the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program of the Department of History at the University of Florida
Rights Management:
Made available under a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 4.0 International license: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/.
Resource Identifier:
UL 15 ( SPOHP IDENTIFIER )

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i.





UL 1;A Transcribed 12/3/76 C.H.R.
Interviewer: Lew Barton
Subject: Bertha Oxendine, qij Locklear
2/26/75



B: a taB .we have here at this point a young lady who has kindly consented to

sit down and talk to us. 1S; this is the American Indian Oral History Program,

dn would you mind telling us your age?

0: Q6 forty-two.

B:i fVWwr, I meant to ask you your name, ()sorry.

0: Bertha Oxendine.

B: Bertha Oxendine.

0: Yes. And (I)married to Clayton Oxendine.

B: THa o'" w How many children do you have?

0: Four. Got one at home, goes to school. Thirteen years old.

B: Uhhuhk. Sounds like a nice family. Would you mind telling us the names and ages?

0: wl the baby is thirteen years ofd, and I got one seventeen, she don't live at

home, she's,married, all of them's married but the one. And I got a girl she lives

in Virginia, she's married to a guy in the Ai bfore. She works for the government.

And the oldest bo he lives out in Riverdale, A they have two children, a boy and

a girl.

B: -trari. What are their names?

0: And he's named ay, the oldest one and i. he's about twenty-three, (id <1 the

other girl's twenty-one the one seventeen, the boy thirteen.

^^~k;-------I-. 1.`-~`~- ___..___,-I- ".... ..,.. .----------------_

0: And one of them's named Peggety on the girl, the other one Darlene, and 1 they

all married people from here.

B: h-.lah. They all married ey - f '> .

0: pdg_____yea, all of them's rried here. Wilbur was raised here, Albert the oldest






2.





boy, he was about eight years old when I came here, I guess, and vt I been here

ZMar.3_about twenty-three years, and...

B: Well, this is like home, then, isn't it?
I p g l H'-- \wIe Kn reC & ._ab o u t
OL Yes, like home. I like it here, and I'n goring-to:live in--hee=about-tnw about

i2' thirteen years.



0: ApF And my husband works at the box factory, and I used to woEk at Loe_

'- C \i._5 and I got sick and so I haven't worked in a long time i, T-



B: Ubehh. Well that s d sounds like yurequite comfortable. Had you rather

live here than back in Carolina?

0: YeA, well I been here so long, see it just feels like home to me now, and when I

go down for a week of two I'm ready to come back. Ai.ga y-

B: Do you want to go once in a while?

0: Yeah, I go back twice a year,\'4ause my mother's living and I go down to be with

her.



0: And I got a couple of sisters there adI got a sister here, and I I-fadid have two

brothers here but one of them left and went back for a while, so I got an older

brother here, -mo'r and my baby sister lives here too. And I know '

a lot of people, got a lot of friends and all.

B: Tha 's ce. In other wo ds you made a new life for yourself.

E: Yen.

B: In a different part of the country.

0: YeL.

B: And you came here because E5ia you get better work opportunities.

0: Yeai, better working and everything.







3.




~S-
B: TfirE You know, I came over to Baltimore a just before World War Bt started.

0: Yea.

B: At that time there were only three Indians here that I knew atmt, that was...

0: Yea.
ArcireLo LflPG.r Or\ A LuCJ r---
B: ...myself, Andy Russler n)t eoi awe They were working the Bethlehem fE

fields' over...

0: Were they?

B: ...the shipbuilding company, I think it wa. %,V but they certainly have increased

since then.

0: Oh, yea, B- a lot of them here now. 4Vmbn.

B: Would you go any idea how many of our people are here?

0: No I don' ,I -:z ll o'. I mean I just started coming down here for 4Ah)past
down here
year now, I mean I herd about the placeyand everything and I knew some of the

people and they started asking me to come down so I started coming down. And all

-them@ai like to come down here now, my son he comes down here too. 1TI-kes.to

eome and, a man that I knew, the Indian, I think he was from Oklahoma, someplace,

Tar, was called Duk,...



0: ij.y? And he started making stuff down here, wallets and shoes and beads and

stuff, and my friend used to come down and everything, an) I come down here and he

married my next-door neighbor CO! c. r L but he died'I guess he been

dead about four or five year, now.



0: And he was from Oklahoma d he started doing things down here andsri and he

would tell me about the place and all, he asked me to come down so I started coming

down then but after he di6d I didn't know that many people.






4.





"Bt So I r&i as far as the places down here and the people, I mean they try to stick

together to help one another and this and that so...

B: aEam

0: Yea.

B: Do you feel that it's, been a disadvantage being an Indian and-d-54 living here

in Baltimore?

0: No I don't.

B: VQaErb People treat you nice.'

0: YeiM, they treat me nice.

B: Th-t's)good.

O: All of them. I never had no trouble, nothing_- m tg I i'4 a race problem

or anything like that.



-==ettVa__rhad-no -tiom a.

B: Yh know they say no news is good news.

0: "S tight.

B: Where do you go to church?

0: Well, I o to < preacher Jame's church, twelftt street, when I go. I don't go

every Sunday, my f-eI d goes every SAnda3X ,, I'm a member of Baltimore and Iesr

street, the church over there.

B: m9rt k What's the name of this church?

0: It's a methodist church?

B: tZ=2b.

0: 92hAnd wkmrL- ,o .ir m that's where the kids is

members at and everything, over there too. And %& I just started going over to

his church, Preacher James' church, for the past year. Something like that.

B: Well, St, everybody seems to e happy over there, don't they?

0: Yes, I enjoy going over there. I like rtaetPne there. My son he likes to go there







5.





too.

BB: You think the Indian community is closer together than most communities?

0: Well, in a way I do, EI'J1 e I think so.





B: rfa= say if I would come over here and I needed help p somewhere, ''d probably

be able toe.

0: That's what I say. I think you would cause...

B: I hope I w6n't have to put it to the test but I..

0: No, but I mean, because I needed some help, I needed a couple favors from some

of them over here so I came over and they helped me. uh. /bcL^- SOrv--

Z'," \ '< f and they helped me out.

B: Etib I guess you're) talking about the American Indian Studies center program

over here.
C f^~ "^\f ---~
0: Yef l'Amisa /Right Over here. Fif4 So Oth I think they all pull together

pretty good, myself.

B: N mm;4. Th s)good.& hta-Ia- you what kind of work does your husband do?

0: He's a bL"- operator in a box factory where they make boxes.

B: ItzrIb What kind of job odo our Indian people usually work at dcQ do you

have a lot of carpenters, and painters and...

0: Well, I-hear tell of f a lot'painters but not that many carpenters. I mean,

n>5BG==q I don't know that mich about their jobs and anything like that,\/cause

EZeMiI hardly ever Irn any of them about their jobs.


*pr that
0: But 'RP the most of the onesI know 'lot of them work at fairpoint, Chevrolet,

and 0# ;some of them paint. Most of the ones that I know.

B: VtBFRai Now what address do you live on?





6. 6.





0: At 129 Soutlr-Woolf.

B: That's W-o-l-ha ,,
y- Prcc-- 1' r
0: Viid. Right off of zh-street, between l.ir 1d.i d- Wolf.

B: hlaL. Do our young people usually marry people from back home or usually marry

up in here.

0: Well, most of them marry here because, I mean when you come here when you're small,

*x Stmm, you grow up with the kids you go to school with and stuff like that.'



0: And most of them I think they marry somebody from here. Because my daughter, 4SS

49* this is the first school she ever went to was on street over

there Between Orlean and Fairmont Avenue, that big #quar&e And that's the first

school she ever went to) so, the boy that she married he went to school there toQ

so they finished hig school together, they finished twelf)t grade together, and
soo
both of them was gmia get in the Air Forc so tt after he went in.she changed her

mind so she 054 waited until he went over and got his training and all and then

they got married. And they had a big wedding& e, r -C,

B: -Uh-4Mrh.



B: Church wedding?
0: 89 Ama hurch wading. st my son did too.




0: He had a big wedding.

B: Do you evemae weddings over at the bh ,as cbata- t Baptist church?

0: I think they had one over there as far as I know.



0: They had a wedding over there, but my kids they got married at this church over on

Baltimore E, street.
___ -7






7.





0: That's where they got married, and we rented the Polish Home Hall, in Polish

_. One of them married a guy from Poland, he can't speak English

too go d, but she can speak Polish, she went to school for that and she speaks

Polish good.

B: Hey, that'sgooc tT Sgsa < .

0: SS. An so they got one child so they speak Plish and English, an I think it's

nice to speak a couple languages ,-roa=k;nr sometimes.

B: Oh, ye i

0: So M= my oldest daughter, she might take up some lessons because %ti she

worksf/r the government and she has a lot of time on her hands too, Vcause she

don't have any kids, and he's expect g to be sent to Germany.

t. .... .-.. .... .... ..

0: So she's taken up a little bit, -jie so she would know 1vwoQ to speak some German

maybe if they do get shipped there. Vause he was just from JeL r Delaware

here, so he's stationed out at Andrews Air Base, now. And CQ4 he put in for Germany

as his -:next place if he would have to go to be in any part of, so he put in to go

with Germany.\
)

0: So I think it would be nice.

B: Oh yeea. German's a very hard language to learn for me, I dbQt..

0: Yeah-, I guess so.

B: If you live among people who speak German that --tmavbe different, I guess.

I had to study a fo ghn language when I was doing my graduate work a t the

university,.



B: chose French because I figured it was easier than German.

0: Yeah.






8.




B: And that wasn't asy.

U: basirr -T4 T-1~ 1

B: %-iE -t il t T you know we were raised or reared&;Q a

certain way bac$ home, our parents were pretty strict and that sort of thingO

do you thinktp the Indians over here have a tendency to fBf keep the same customs

and ways of doing things?

0: I think they should raise th ir kids right. But I mean when we *as growing up Sfft

if we went out with boys usually your parents would have somebody with you e=a

1mww older than yourself or something like that. -


i -"- -- ""
0: But my father was a preacher. So I got to go around a lot to meet people because
90
I would b with him. Church, and different places he would be invited to, he was

a pastor in Suth Carolin

-6in^ ----_^.--- -

0: And t1-), so I think it's .f nice to kinda raise your kids strict, cause I do my

boy, because if he's out any place, I know where he's at. If he's out, he always

has a dime to call me up to let me know if he's gonna be(31e or something likV h

and he don't Sr '( fnd if he's ever been on any drugs or anything I don't

know nothing about it I-a -mhe, I'm trying ) raise him like I was, and I

think he's a very nice boy



0: I think people should A'* know where their kids is 9W at night.

B: Right.

0: And gP a- -re aes about these schools and things, yamjajjgif people knew where

they kids i at there wouldn't be as much trouble ymrafSgS- in the bottom of taking

things and stuff like that. But i my boy were to come home with something and I

didn't know where he got it at, and he was to tell me, 0! me and him would get in

the car and take it right back where he got it at and I'd make him apologize for






9.





taking it.

B: Right.

0: Because that's the way I feel about it and that's the way I'm trying to raise him.

B: Right.

0: Dause he's the only one I have at home now and if something was to happen to him

I would really miss himi cause me and him's so close together and everything ya=L.



B: Yes S

0: So I think they should be raised realty strict.

B: Well, he's sort of a momma's boy, isn't he?

0: ng) not really PtsBan, if he's out he knows if he don't tell me where he's at

he knows he'il be punished when he do get home.

-h
0: Because he's all the boy that I have and he pretty well gets everything he needs,

5aYaB5M# and about everything he wants. He works a little bit d
a week he works nine to eleven and he makes two dollars an hour, so he gets paid

once a week and sometime he has about-fifEy dollars, so he'll get paid tomorrow

night. And that's his money, plus I giue him ten dollars a week but he saves

money, he buys his clothes-..



0: ...with it.

B: Yeap.

0: So you don't find many boys like that.

B: No, they want to be independent pretty soon...

0: -et. %

B: ...don't they? Did-1 y f-hing-his_-O. how old did you say he was?

0: ThirteenQ; nE- -






10.






0: But he's a full-size grown man in looks. He looks like a twenty-one year old

boy. Maybe you'll get to meet him if he comes down tomorrow evening maybe.

B: Oh, yea, I Like -to very much.

0: I'll have him to meet you. But my husband won't get to come because he'll be

working, and so he won't get to come down. And my oldest son will be here tomorrow,

)YJrcause we gonna stop by to meet fri / but I called him up and told him to come

by and stop down to meet Bertha.



0: And then we gonna do some shopping and I'll be a_ _tomorrow

evening.

B: do you help out An the cooking when their cooking to do an all?

0: Here?

B:

0: No, not that much because. I don't know, I just come down and help out if

they need me. But they be so many other women, the sisters of the church and

all, so they just, you know, mostlyfpi'ck the ones tht they want to

pick I guess, but if they need anything i^ -=aaiaL I come down and help.

B: Well, that's rice. that spirit of helpfulness, we find it all over the Indian

community don't we?

0: Yep.

B: What is there special about Indian women's cooking? Th .j-r ?

0: I really don't know. I guess a lot of it we inherited it from out mothers.

B: Ye&, well, Indian mothers were always good cooks.

0: Well, yeh, and my son-in-law, he really, loves everything I fix, he's all the time

talking about what I cook, you know, he says he gains wei ht from my food.

B: Like collard greens, I guess they sort of grow on you. Back home Betthey were sort

of a staple food. And I learned to love them.






11.




0: Yeh.

B: And I can get up in the morning and eat my collard greens if I can get them.

eat any-Ql-

0: Well, my son-in-law had never eaten no collard greens utilt he married my daughter.

B: Ia tat right.

0: And he started eating collard greens. He loves collard greens.

B: Is that right?

0: Yep.

B: They sort of grew on him too.

0: YeV, he loves collard greens.

B: Well, (-)e ever gone into a cafe' or restaurant & where they serve collard

greens and they tasted good.

0: No, they don't taste like we cook them, you know.

B: S1%k-,h, the women back home, Indian women, the way they cook them is that, I think

its' the seasoning maybe they use...

0: Yeh.

B: ...YiA) think maybe th t's-t?

0: I think that's it.

B: ft I think in these cafe's and rekaurants they mostly just throw mem into water

and boivthem a little bit.

0: garhMb. Yeah.

BO Put aiAtle salt, black pepper on it, and that's it.

0: That's it.

8: But R4E we usually like a big ol' hunk of pork...

0: ,Yeah.

B: In there somewhere. And S you can fry them and th re good. If you get tired of

eating fried ones, you can, you can bCoil' them.

Of You can boil them. I love tham-e. inPie. r






12.




B: But the brailded ones are the best of all, aren't they?

0: Yea, I love them!

B: But they take longer. Wonder why that is?

0: I don't know but it takes longer to boil them you know that it is to fry them

but I like t1e both ways but I like btoilld collard greens like better -SSSSw,

with pork.

B: Well, do you think we eat too much pork?

0: Well, I really don't eat that much pork myselfgy5ar, I like to season with a

little pork but, just to-ags sit down and eat a pork meal, that's something we

hardly have is pork, we have more steak and chicken than anything else. And ground

beef, of course, that's what they like and that's what usually I fix but I always

fix the vegetables, corn or stripe beans, stuff like that, cabbage.

B: Have you ever compared the food prices back home and the food prices here?

0: Well, not really, because I don't go down there that much, see, and so I don't

really ak do that.

B: 4 1fCTea att-od-prices-ate- atsu. I'veeen having to buy some groceries my-

self, being an. unhappy bachelor.

0: Yeah.

B: But I noticed that food prices here art lower that back home in Carolina.

0: fa-br I haven't checked the prices there.

B: But that'll come as a surprise but V they are. The variety of the food in this

part of the country is broader, better.\

0: -{Sji.

B: S1 a r you can buy just about anything you need.

0: Yea.

B: Your vasxty is more limited back home, t'snot just among Indian communities,

but all over.

0: 1i;m Ye*h.






13.




B: WSBM3E sBB you don'tjever plan to move back home?
that
0: Well, not offhand, I really haven't thought about it much. I only have the boy

here with me nowso after he gets married or gdo!in the service or something, I

get older maybe I will, 6tause we own a home and a tract of land back there.

B: UaEIErh yc ,.

0: So a&...

B: Y*u still say back home?

0: Yer, I say back home.

B: Everybody says that but...

0: Yea, mostly. trhutb. Most everybody says back home.
-P
B: Wonder i4 people in Baltimore feel resentful that we still think so highly of

"back home".

O: Well... I e rd n )

B: M just as we were running out of tape I was asking you did you think that people

sometimes felt resentful because 'iatwe are attached to "back home".

0: Yes, sir, I think so, some of them.





B: Well I knew you already told me you're n a hurry to o and everything,-yvawe

somebody's probably meeting you%to help them do something, but I want you to know

how much I enjoyed his interview, and you were very kind to give us this time

we appreciate pn very, very much.
C Z, 4
0: Yei 2Y thanks a lot. for letting me talk...I'm glad I got to say something.

B: Right. Sa-_ou did fine.

0: Yes, % I'm in a little hurry anyway, my.boy be home and I didn't leaW a note

JhAfie was out or anything for him. we always leave a note like if I'm not

going to be home I'll leave a note on the telephone, and he'll know why I'm not

and he can always call me.






14.




B: Right.

0: So I didn't leave a note t,4t I would be here nad so I'm gonna go home anyway

fix supper and I'm coming back.

B: Well, thank you so very much and good luck to you now.

0: YeAh, same to you.

B: 'Bye.

0: Bye.





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PAGE 1

UL l"A Interviewer: Lew Barton Subject: Bertha Oxendine,~ Locklear 2/26/75 1. Transcribed 12/3/76 C.H.R. B: have here at this point a young lady who has kindly consented to sit down and talk to us. 1UJ;., his is the American Indian Oral History Program, (d~would you mind telling us your age? 0: Cl., forty-two. B: ~ I meant to ask you your name, ~sorry. O: Bertha Oxendine. B: Bertha Oxendine. 0: Yes. And@married to Clayton Oxendine. B: 1,g GliXY kPli Q:sew:Jii.aa.. How many children do you have? 0: Four. Got one at home, goes to school. Thirteen years old. B: Ilia lsd .. Sounds like a nice family. Would you mind telling us theo/names and ages? 0: will the baby is thirteen years ofd, and I got one seventeen, she don't live at home, she's, married, all of them's married but the one. And I got a girl she lives in Virginia, she'si married to a guy in the Ai~iocVe. She works for the government. And the oldest~~ he lives out in Riverdale,~ they have two children, a boy and a girl. B: \fif':~" What are their names? 0: And he's named by, the oldest one and ~11~ he's about twenty-three,~d@ the ' other g1._ r_l_' _s ____ t_w~~:-on:--~~:: .. :~-~ ~~~~nteen, the boy t~ I 1.. \, 0: And one of them's named Peggety on the girl, the other one.Darlene, and~ all married people from here. ' I B : YhAmn_. They all married , r'\ they 0: 1Jlt:~1thye~ all of them's *ried here. Wilbur was raised here, Albert the oldei't

PAGE 2

2. boy, he was about eight years old when I came here, I guess, and~ I been here tiiib,!ltit;._..about twenty-three years, and B: Well, this is like home, then, isn't 0~ Yes, like home. I like it here, and it? I"/ ~,e<:_r-, 11 v11\9 1 AJf-,M C :,: :J:,n, c:'.,,.y.d I' of go:mg-t-0 ,cl i vein--he~ about thirteen y:_:::.; 4ii:J#Cii.iii1ish. ..' 0: ~~@@EH,;. And my husband works at the box facttory, and I used to woek at L0,..,r---!2.'.-::i v' 1)\ct~ \_,c__S and I got sick and so I haven't worked in a long time ----'-------------B: Uhdmh. Well that~sounds like equite comfortable. Had you rather live here than back in Carolina? c. 0: Yea, well I been here so long, see it just feels like home -to me now, and when I go down for a week of two I'm ready to come back. ~,. B: Do you want to go once in a while? 0: Ye~, I go back twice a year,~ause my mother's living arid I go down to be with her. •;II.a.;) }.,.,J O: And I got a couple of sisters there ~I got a sister here, and I~did have two brothers here but one of them left and went back for a while, so I got an older brother here, cm, a]der brotb~r, and my baby sister lives here too. And I know' a lot of people, got a_lot of friends and all. B: Tha6).ce. In other wofa.s you made a new life for yourself. s>: Y~. B: In a different part of the country. 0: Yeii. B: And you came here because~ you get better work opportunities. 0: Ye!iii, better working and everything.

PAGE 3

3. B: UII hol,. 1f You know, I came over to Baltimore di;;, just before World War N> started. <: O: Yea.. B: At that time there were only three Indians here that I knew a~t, that was s. O: Ye6. Arclrei0 loc.ldfor Oren L.c....v,r,0~ B: myself, Andli Russler ~wine. f?J r<'. They were working the Bethlehem~ field•. over O: Were they? ~S.J B: the shipbuilding company, I think it walr. ~~ut they certainly have increased since then. O: Oh-2:> yeih, a lot of them here now. 4 1f111 ta, B: Would you go any idea how many of our people are here? O: No I don'1cE)I FO&•*Y acn't I mean I just started coming down here for t{a!0past down here year now, I mean I h&rd about the plac~and everything and I knew some of the r'"'-people and they started asking me to come down so I started coming down. And all .-:::o :c. --t.be. sar 1 like to come down here now, my son he comes down here too. ~~-~U~~s..:.~o ,--.. C',...J\,_ ~3n
PAGE 4

4. '''&: So I as far as the places down here and the people, I mean they try to stick together to help one another and this and that so 0: Ye~. n\ B: Do you feel that 'd::,~ been a disadvantage being an Indian and~--., living here in Baltimore? 0: No I don't. B: ..ftfrii!t:t+-. People treat you nice; C'. 0: Ye.;.:&, they treat me nice. r:--i B: Th~:~Vgood. 0: All of them. c...n t~.c. ,t: r •: . d ~\ +h..LI never had no trouble, nothing-~m anmerb:i:Bgl~ace problem or anything like that. B:;:JI 1-Jua. -e~ ~ve r lrad-:--n~~e B: Y~r,/ know they say no news is good news. 0: . foight. B: Where do you go to church? 0: Well, I iao to preacher Jame's church, _Ewel~ treet, when I go. I don't go . ::::,_-,.I"-u. \r'Jo:}_,,"('!,:i1.._ every Sunday, my f~ goes every S6nda' I'~ a member of Baltimore and ha:diSt street, the church over there. B: llh !iitb--t What's the name of this church? 0: "It-'.s a methodist church? B: TT! -1 J.. "!I Pn 30. that's where the kids is members at and everything, over there too. And 1!r. I just started going over to his church, Preacher James' church, for the past year. Something like that. B: Well,, tverybody seems to fe happy over there, don't they? '1 + C:) ,.J,C .,-0: Yes, I enjoy going over there. I like t:hat ,me there. My son he likes to go there

PAGE 5

5. too. BB: You think the Indian connnunity is closer together thatn most communitjes? \J O: Well, in a way I do, ~1iislk th-a.a-, I think so. ~eh. B: t::1111> 3,ay if I would come over here and I needed help somewhere, ~robably be able to, 0: That's what I say. I think you wouldk:9cause B: I hope I w(~have to put it to the test but I O: No, but I mean, because I needed some hel~, I needed a couple favors from some of them over here so I came over and they helped me. tTt.\, MovLtSDr.i..L, \e+lcr .) . . . __su---o_) ! 1 ~-U: 1 1:cCU'!('(:;: .r"ti;c::kxmw"; and they helped me out. '--------'--~,--" "=-_)-~.; B: I guess y~u'~ talking about the American Indian Studies Center program over here. ,..,....,.--~. O: Y~j ' d:r;{light 1 7ver here. So I think they all pull together pretty good, myself. B: 5E'1TP;r Th ~'\good;.~~;mlla• .2,•~~, ~hat kind of work does your husband do? ~!.:) 0: He's a' bo:::.~:)::iF-as;-::ts,,...., operator in a box factory where they make boxes. B: ~What kind of 'jobi1to our Indian people usually work at3 ._o you have a lot of carpenters, and painters and ------, .o(0: Well, :Q Lhear tell of -~ a lot \/painters but not that many carpenters. I mean, jto)y J EW'"> I don't know that m-tch about their jobs and anything like that,~ause 'i W,Lc., hc,0~ ;,WWWiI hardly ever .approe-ehetl any ..B ;_::lli:dmh. of them about their? •-.:r that r 0: But !tn\\ the most of the ones•I know ,)lot of them work at Jairpoint~, Chevrolet, and~ some of them paint. Most of the ones that I know. B: Now what address do you live on?

PAGE 6

6. 6. 0: At 129 SouthrWoolf. B: That's W-o-&l-t~J"1 1 ndu Y. ,_:.~ 1 PrccH0: utr~. Right off of~ :3treet, between l\.Ar~;, : I da \/ Wolf. B: Uili 11111:t.. Do our young people usually marry people from back home or usually marry up in here. 0: Well, most of them marry here because, I mean when you come here when you're small, r ~w up with the kids you go to school with and stuff like that., -------------.. --~ . . ____-/ ~,, you -_____ ,,__ \,....0: And most of them I think they marry somebody from here. Because my daughter,~ this is the first school she ever went to was on , 1\.ch .. Q. "+ ::f street over ,., ,5c.J-o.)/ ther~ j,etween 0rlean and Fairmont Avenue, that big 1'fl11Sre? And thatTs the first school she ever went to )\:'.11 so~ the boy O they finished hig~school together, soi'r,jh• both of them was~ get in the Air .... that she married, he went to school there to'(v they finished twel~ grade together, and ,.--,, ' Fore~,;?• after he went in 1 she changed her mindJso she 6\ waited until he went over and got his training and all and then they got married. And they had a big weddin~. h.Lr •C.. , B: Church wedding? Y<'5J, fr.:: it l.,:,d :, 6i ~,.. .,d/ /-lod c,. 6, Li he-if 0: ~~hurch we'l.ding. ~-'!'OrJ J my son did too. 13;~1 .:hlth:; . . . --~ --~~------------------~ -./,-0: He had a big wedding. B: Do you evet~ weddings over at the ~:p~,~~t church? 0: I think they had one over there as far as:::.I know.~) / __ .,,./ .... --------... \,-~:. 0: They had a wedding over there, but my kids they got married at this church over on

PAGE 7

7. O: That's where they got married, and we rented the Polish Home Hall, in Polish 7 One of them married a guy from Poland, he can't speak English too go~, but she can speak Polish, she went to school for that and she speaks Polish good. B: Hey, th~goo~~tit!fi!fA 1ifQ J J .. ~eeh. 0: ~so they got one child ~_!-~~:.>'__, speak U.ish and English, a~e) I think it's B: 0: r"'\ ', nice to speak a couple lantguages""'~Ql\7~ sometimes. "-./ Oh, ye~~ m~ht So e,t:l , my oldest daughter, she take up some lessons worksajr the government and she has a lot of time on her hands because she too , 6 J-cause she \ . ..:0: So she's taken up a little bit, o/ea.~ so she would know to speak some German maybe if they do get shipped there. ~ause he was just from ~JJ-Ju Delaware here, so he's stationed out at Andrews Air Base, now. And Cb; he put in for Germany as his :next place if he would have to go to be in any part of, so he put in to go with Germany.\ _,,) O~o I think it would be nice. B: Oh yeiti. German's a very hard language to learn for me, I dJ~ O: Yeah-, I guess so. t,_-ou(d t",\'.), lc 1~B: If you live among people who speak German that'-t:l.~e different, I guess. I had to study a fotf~g~ language when I was doing my graduate work V the universit@B: chose French because I figufed it was easier than German. ff,,_~ I 0: Yeah.

PAGE 8

8. ("' B: And that was~:~easy. ,, 1 I ", U : T-r \.-\..)(' :, r'\ c, B: ~-ctltfft4-'l you:.t-b:Ln~t:"uhi:,;-&r.. ~ll. you know we were raised or reared~ a k := -~ certain way bacf home, our parents were pretty strict and that sort of thin do you think
PAGE 9

9. taking it. B: Right. 0: Because that's the way I feel about it and that's the way I'm trying to raise him. B: Right. O:~ause he's 'the only one I have at home now and if something was to happen to him I would really miss himb'Vcause me and him's so close together and everythin~~ B: ..mi ltwk: ye.s I o. I ;-1-/-l E:, 0: So I think they ~uld be raised~ strict~ B: Well, f~sort of a momma' s boy, isn't he? 0: no: reallb-. he's out he knows if he don't tell me where he's at 11.:V .:;;; he knows he •fi be punished when he do -B:::..:5b_btd1 ... ------------------__{; 0: Because he's all the boy that I have and he pretty well gets everything he needs, -,.e4,,t111:t\!r;J, and about everything he wants. He works a little biS11?ti' three nights a week he works nine to eleven and he makes two dollars an hour, so he gets paid ' >..."",l ' __ ~-•-~ once a week and sometime he has about -f'.:1e-y, dollars, so he' 11 get paied tomorrow \...; night. And that's his money, plus I give him ten dollars a week but he saves money, he buys his e: ... with it ..,. B: Ye,ih. 0: So you don't find many boys like that. B: No, they want to be independent pretty soon B: don't they? Di-'1-Yo.iLb.ilng-:his~:;• how old did you say he was? 0: Thirteen~;i\-Ltnftkeena

PAGE 10

10. 0: But he's a full-size grown man in looks. He looks like a twenty-one year old boy. Maybe you'll get to meet him if he comes down :tomorrrow evening maybe. B: Oh, y~,@.ike~to very much. 0: I'll have him to meet you. But my husband won't get to come because he'll be working, and so he won't get to come down. And my oldest son will be here tomorrow, f,,,..,,/ ....__f'(j/ ~cause we gonna stop by to meet frif 0, but I called him up and told him to come . by an~ stop down to meet Bertha}' ~~___-/ 6 I 1 / ,,, 0: And then we gonna do some shopping and I' 11 be o.o:::_ 'o__,.;•,. tomorrow -----------evening. B: io you help out~n the cooking when ther\jcooking to do ~all? O: Here? B: 0: No, not that much because, I don't know, I just come down and help out if they need me. But they be so many other women, the sisters of the church and all, so they just, you know, mostlyfpick _t_h_e_o_n_e_s ________ t~~t they want to ("J..,G:ov . _ . _ pick I guess, but if they needvanything -•-.~:::_ I come down and help . -,.;::----...., B: Well, th~t's tiice. " _. ___ ../ that spirit of helpfulness, we find it all over the Indian community don't we? C 0: Yep. , r-~-, _ t I ... Indian women's cooking? \ n):i: t't,~ '. ~: , . , ? ~~-----------,---'J'j "/:; j';• Cf'' .. '\/ ,--.J_,,'J.,d I+ ' B: What is there special about 0: I really don't know. I guess a lot of '. it we inherited it from out: mothers. B: Ye8', well, Indian mothers were always good cooks .s 0: Well, yet!k, and my son-in-law, he ~eallY" loves evrything I fix, he's all the time talking about what I cook, you know, he says he gains weJht from my food. B: Like collard greens, I guess they sort of grow on you. Back home~they were sort of a staple food. And I learned to love them.

PAGE 11

s O: Yea. 11. B: And I can get up in the morning and eat my collard greens if I can get them. eat any ... ~.{ 1 O: Well, my son-in-law had never eaten no collard greens~ill he married my daughter. B I ... D.:1-.l h ? : s rig t. 0: And he started eating collard greens. He loves collard greens. B: Is that right? O: Yej-; B: They sort of grew on him too. 0: Yef, he loves collard greens. B: Well, ever gone into a cafe' or restaurant~ where they serve collard greens and they tasted good. 0: No, they don't taste like we cook them, you know. B: ~, the women back home, Indian women, the way they cook them is that, I think its' the seasoning maybe they use s. 0: Ye B: YJ'.)U think maybe th0t? 0: I think that's it. B: tffi9 and I think in these cafe's and rfuurants they mostly just throw t"em into water boi~hem a little bit. 0: ~Ye~. BO Put a~iitle salt, black pepper on it, and that's it. O: That's it. B: But fi1't\ we usually like a big ol' hunk of pork .s. O: ,Yeah. B: In there somewhere. And~ you can fry them and thE~~good. If you get tired of eating fried ones, you can, you can bi"oil'. them. ,.___; o~ You can b;oil them. I love t~ ~ri-ee-.c...:..c,-~~ ...__,J

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12. () B: But the brlilded ones are the best of all, aren't they? 0: Y~, I love them! B: But they take longer. Wonder why that is? 0: I don't know but it takes longer to btoil them you know tha• it is to fry them \.._, ,i.L) ,-. but I like t1\1'f.!:j both ways but I like b~iled collard greens like better-,--;i Ji haw, V with pork. B: Well, do you think we ear too much pork? 0: Well, I really don't eat that much pork myselfP e, I like to season with a ,,--, little por1)but._, just to-~ sit down and eat a pork meal, that's something we ct hardly have is pork, we have more steak and chicken than anything else. And groun9 '-&" beef, of course, that's what they like and that's what usually I fix but I '1-ways fix the vegetables, corn or str~beans, stuff like that, ca'l>iage. B: Have you ever compared the food prices back home and the food prices here? 0: Well, not really, because I don't go down there that much, see, and so I don't really 'l2l:lia. do that. B: ~noE.tcfill.--d1at-:-fcrod~-pr.i-ee~.~0een having to buy some groceries myself, being a~nhappy bachelor. 0: Y~. r, B: But I noticed that food prices here are lower th~ back home in C~rolina. 0: lfnE"'lmi=" I haven't checked the prices there. B: But t4;~, ~} come as a surpriS!fe but they are. The variety of the food in this -~ .... ___ .,,/ part of the country is broader, better.\ '-...j/' B: ~.:::5d...Ji:s:L., you can buy just about anything you need. 0: Yeah. cl,\-e_ {. Ct,~ B: Your u~~is more limited back home, ~not just among Indian communities, but all over.

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13. B: 'WS:-l..:Sks...t.a., ~ou d~ever p,l.an to O: Well, not offhand, I really haven't move back home? that h thought about i~much. I only have tie boy here with me now,so after he gets married or g~in get older maybe I will, ~'tcause we own a home and a h.. tle service or something, I tract of land back there. B: O: So-... B: Y1u still say back home? b O: Ye~, I say ,ack home. B: Everybody says that but O: Yeaii, mostly. ~: Most everybody says back home. +' B: Wonder i• people in Baltimore feel resentful that we still think so highly of "back home". O: Well .s B: just aa we were running out of tape I was asking you did you think that people sometimes felt resentful because~ we are attached to "back home". 0: Yes, sir, I think so, some of them. B: Well I knew you already told me yoG~~n a hurry to"io and everything,-'.t
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14. B: Right. 0: So I didn't leave a note tlli\: I would be here nad so I'm gonna go home anyway fix supper and I'm coming back. B: Well, thank you so very much and good luck to you now. 0: Y~, same to you. B: 'Bye. 0: iye.