Citation
Interview with Linda Cox, January 20, 1975

Material Information

Title:
Interview with Linda Cox, January 20, 1975
Creator:
Cox, Linda ( Interviewee )
Publication Date:
Language:
English

Subjects

Subjects / Keywords:
Urban Lumbee Oral History Collection ( local )

Notes

Funding:
This text has been transcribed from an audio or video oral history. Digitization was funded by a gift from Caleb J. and Michele B. Grimes.

Record Information

Source Institution:
Samuel Proctor Oral History Program, Department of History, University of Florida
Holding Location:
This interview is part of the 'Urban Lumbee' collection of interviews held by the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program of the Department of History at the University of Florida
Rights Management:
Made available under a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 4.0 International license: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/.
Resource Identifier:
UL 13 ( SPOHP IDENTIFIER )

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UL 13A
Subject: Linda Cox
Interviewer: Lew Barton



B: With me is another young lady who has consented to give me an interview and

we would to interview her right here. Would you mind telling us what your

name is?

C: Linda Cox.

B: What was, whebmwee you name before you got married? Mrs. Cox.

C: Barry.

B: Barry.

C: L -wr.

B: Umasaum. Who Ja your folks?

C: My daddy was Paul Barry and my'mother wa was Kerry Barry.

B: Um-um OK. Do you have a family of your 0-, are you married?

C: Yes I am.

B: You donl-t put that it eheie Lu --, your name like a"womans libber"?

C: No.

B: Are you happy with this"Mrs."

C: Yes it' a gain.

B: Who was it you married?

C: Tracy Cox.

B: Tracy?

C:

B: -ox : dZk-AY/

C: Yes. He does that% why I married him.

Br,0 You have any children?

C: Yes we do.

B: How many children do you have?





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C: Five.

B: Five?

C: Yes.

B: How about that. Well that nice, you got a nice family. Do you know

their names and ages?

C: Yes. -OD ( Bo C fJ The oldest is Roger, he6 twelve. Then

I have Tina, ten. Tracy the third, he\ eight and Balinda, is seven and I

have Paula, who is three.

B: What does your husband do Mrs. Cox?

C: He" a sheet rock hanger.

B: Do you work?

C: Yes I do. I work for the American Indian Study Center.

B: 1fplm. What is your position there?

C: Community service of V.I.S.T.A.

B: Um-tm. That\ good, how long have you been working here?

C: I'e been here, it'll be three years in August, thatOU. be three years.

B: How long have you been in Baltimore?

C: Oh about going on seven years.

B: c oft 7'4. C*.Do you enjoy living here as well as North Carolina?

C: Well, sort of. I enjoy living here but not as much as being in North Carolina.

Becasue in North Carolina you can get out more and be more, you dof have to

be so careful with the kids. You can just turn them loos e. '4 t)
i (ST;--- -------------
anfdyou have to keep them pretty well close under you.

B: And thiJst d'/'cII r kids like it More open
VkdMore oe

C: Yeah. TheyX be more happier in open area. They all liked it down there.

They have lived down about a year with them and they really enjoyed it.

B: Where did you go to school?

C : I went to ;t\ IO High.





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B: That*. near Lumberton, North Carolina?

C: Yes about three miles from Lumberton.

B: What do you think of the"women's lib"?

C: . p ey, the women up in the jJo f (

B: Well do you agree with everything?

C: No, not everything.

B: Do you agree that women should 'qual pay for equal work?

C: Yes, definitely.

B: -Uapn.. Lets get back to t% ,/v 14; How do you find your name?

C: Mrs. M.R.S.

B: Iuitm. YouSq, -ydi re a proud wife.

C: Yes.

B: That good. Do you think women's place is in the home?

C: Yes, except when they have to work. C C A )
nr A- Pfrc f.t'--r J ", .
B: t- you perfer t, /

C: No I like working, I enjoy working. Would offend me if it is mine two people

have to work.,

B: Takes two people #T) /e4 ? C4 tJ ^.r;-f H. f

C: Yes. =3 sure do.

B: Usam. Do you meet many interesting people here?

C: Varied. We have people coming in all during the day, just about every day and

pyw you meet alot of interesting people.

B: You spend alot of your time on the telephone dod2- you?

C: Very much on the telephone.

B: You have more duties than anybody just about I imagine.

C: Except one;woman, that you.

B: Uwm-i. And that is your mother?

C: Yes.





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B: Now she is, she is certainly busy and you are too. And '-'

C: Yeah. Startingfoo.

B: That might be a hopeless task. How about the schools up here. Do you think

maybe ^) r ') with the schools back home?

C: No. The only thing-the schools up here are I thitrk better in a way for trp

kids becasue the kids who learn but the only thing they doq2t, they doalt

haIt- uyou that you -re in the schools and that'. a big problem. Up here they

usually send them home or expell them from school for a misdemeanor. When

down home they go ahead and you know they like whip them in the 4Zass. That .

the only problem, difference that I do like. I think if they could punish

them, punish tV kids in the schools weS have more kids a learning' better.

B: ."UiSa. Do you believe in -Co punishment?

C: Yes. Yes. t would help. I mean with, it keeps the kids straight, and they

Naa 4in the classrooms.
B : Um-um. WU-'1 {rW' "/ *- eS ... .. .

Everybody doesn't approve of it.

C: No, Jf they had, th.y-would probably a lot of work here.

B: J4inM. Do you lan to work here indefinitely?

C: Yes Ias long as I just just finish schooling gliVga___F__ __* .
A A A_ -------
B: Well let's hope you do it for a long, long time. You surely want to do that

douO you?

C: Yes I do.

B: About how many, have you any idea how many times have you answered the phone

v. 21.C 1^
C: No. Maybe fifty to seventy-five a day and like personal type phone calls has,

we usually average just for sales, from the front office, we average anywhere

from a hundred and thirty to a hundred and forty phone calls that we handle of





5.




sales individually a month.

B: Ifaeuma I believe your mother says that she began work about 8:30 and worked

till about 8:30 at night. Sometimes, is that the way you are all the time?

C: No, my hours run from 8:.0 to 4:30, except on Thursday nights, I come down for

the dance group. I bring my kids down they participate in the Indian dance

group we have here at the center. And Thursdays night is the only night I

usually be down here unless something happens I have to come back. But

8:30 to 4:30 is my regular time.

B: So actually you, you find that December is not the only time you put in this.

Is it?

C: No. Uh-uh. No.

B: UIa-n. That only the thing in addition to your regular days work? Do you

think people are happy working here?

C: Yes I do. I think people enjoy working here.

B: Most of the dedicated people aren-t they?

C: Yes.

B: How do you think they offered all these programs?

C: I think now itCs going pretty well becasue they have so many people coming in

that, theyes helping more now, then they were last year. They have a lot

alot of new faces around. I think they"e really doing good with their program.

B: Well how about the educational program?

C: The education program is good because they go in schools to help, they tutor

in the schools and also they have tutoring here. And the center is very little

but becasue of the safety but I think their education program is going well too.

B: -Ummua This is a very old historic building that we re occupying here at

"" -- .J.e ,-s_ south Broadway. Was this a Methodist church before?

C: Yes, it is it still is.

B: The, the huge Methodist.

C: Yes, very huge.





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B: Of course it" not used for anything except enter work now.

C: Thatk all just the enter, the better rents the back part of the church.

B: I wonder-w al the church did which moved out of here. Did they > 7 "

C: Yes there was three churches and they were having church service at all three

so they changed and just having it now at two instead of the three. And they

eliminated this one. .A

B: This is a very old building too is' it?

C: Yes it its.

B: It& still, it still in good shape)isa4: it?

C: Yes.

B: e( A4 can be.

C: Yes and now with all the remodeling work at the center going and building

those schooling.

B: US-*m. I wish I could describe the building how big it is, and how big these

offices are. Plus all the toys. You must have about, how many 'j- ?

C: Yeah. We have one, two, three, four, we have four offices. One great big

room and the hallway and a kitchen.

B: aguel. Do you much cooking in the kitchen?

C: No. Just on special occasions when we have dinner and home-coming for the

church and maybe some of the staff might come in and fix up a can of soup or

something but other than that-no.

B: The center has Cr''-. ia community center inAtAk\ ways hasn' it?

C: Yes it has.

B: Do you have visiting people to come in ii alcounties?

C: Yes we have Ford coming in, looking around, we have people from all over

Merlin, different parts of Baltimore coming in, you know, wanting to look

around and then to become members of the center.

B: People certainly seem to be interested. I noticed that during the holiday





7.




season? everybodyy was pretty busy. en as '

C: Yeah. Yeah we give our Christmas basket for some of the people in our

community and everybody was busy trying to get all this done and get everything

pretty well under control before we went on vacation, fortunately.

B: Did you have an enormous quanity of packages to give out?

C: We gave out thirteen baskets. And they were *awis ______and

the whole (W- '.

B: Do you know members been estimated that they're all some 3 500-4,000 Indians

in Baltimore and Baltimore area. And I /-rvJ ".- ''it'V e'ti'

actual nose countl ,t. .

C: Um-um.

B: Particularly those who could reach on the telephone, over the telephone. You

we' not nearly through, already youie counted over Acr^ V4

C: We'*e had 3, we have-.-.1EWa-Actuilly from this county.

B: Well a good many people area telephone subscribers. Wouldrn be reachable

that, that I know.

C: No, we sending out letters, we try to get all publicized all over the towns to

let people know we are gaong ro and we would like for them to

contact with us to let us know they are Indianp 7 e'.\ 6'" C CHM ex'.

B: twotm. Now do you think it would be much of a problem if, say if the center

7V C5-1 p count from door to door?

C: Well sort of, I mean we kind of thought alot of those people don"ji have

moved since we been really V-C- o

B: 4MVZm.

C: And so we -g4 know,'eally could;0 get all, everybody from door to door you

know becasue now that.everybody's moved just about ftsm from Baltimore and
%AMQ r ftYf r-2I. (t-V
from A4 .LBroadway which mostly all Indian iare i ed.

B: What brought this, what brought this moving about here?





8.




C: They'e tearing down, not tearing down but they remodeling the buildings,

take in the houses and going in remodeling the whole house and then they

ge'- rent it out as apartments to buy-not rent, to buy them and alot of

people that moved in there, they got first opportunity to come back you know

if they want the same house and their $500 deposit down, suppose to pay

those, like you know, make payments if they evet and this is the problem ,

you know, we might, like they have!i finished it LJl/) you know they

have a few building S 4 u but you know not all of them are

Indians.

B: Now-where did, where do most 6f our People move to when they leave Baltimorelire



C: Well some of them went on Crabb Street an there some went on Lake Pattereon

Jt ff aadPLAkewood Avenue, Lenwood, Penwood avenue and on like that

which is a pretty far jump from the center. And you know you would need

transportation and you knww 3ust like this from door to door, to, to interviewing

and then a lot of times people work and put them anyway during the day.

B: How Ubout the housing project? 3SS HLDI ?

C: You me-, the HUD project?

B:

C: Well I think it\ coming along very well.
C CCe. I'f I/V-C
B: You doaLt gt people out of houses __ ." <

C: No because the relaT , only the relay case and they made sure you have a

house before you have to move. You had, you know, they helpI you find a
'tg
house, then also you be move your money so that s a good point. You have

moving money to move, with.

B: ._What' tLyou see for the future for the

"P oim k a you think i t ?

C: I think that the center is growing more and more each day and in the closet,





9.




in the future like it going now, we have a w11-known center all over the

world.

B: What is your favorit;project or do you have a favorite project?

C: Not really a favorite, but just working w the community people in general,

you gnow I enjoy working with the people trying to help with them their

problem and we have alot of people coming in with problems that we do bea.i

Some come in with bad ___i I but we try 4a*.ecy to give them the impression

that we did, you know we let them know we did the best we could and you know

in that they had one other problem that something different, they can always come

back. We try to do a follow up on our people that we have contact with. To

make sure what we try to do)you know works out for them.

B: Maybe youth tell us something about the dance group that comes outoon

Thursday nights is it?

C: Yes.

B: They come out regularly?

C: Yes. They come out every other week.

B: Linda could you tell us something about the dance or the dance came on

Thursday night. We started talking about it when the tape ran out, who is

it leads it and everything?

C: Mr. Avery / L heI s )2 Indian, he leads it. And Carl Harding, who

is Cherokee is his assistant. And we have about there are about dive or six

drummers that sits around the drum and there are about ten to twelve dancers

that in the dance group.

B: /C-t-0 \\ R>c.. ?

C: Regular dances um-um. "' (. _i__ '_. gl... _

B: Well I was looking the other night at course you know I' a bachelor.

C: Yes.

B: I was looking at these gorgeous Indian girls in those gorgeous Indian outfits
A





10.




and beautiful .mas. and cream complex ion and all the feathers and the,
beautiful, ito wch sir it?
it' just it\ beautiful, it gorgeous and to, to watch it?

C: Yes it sure is especially when they have their 4 a.Bthe swan dance and

(everybody's dressed in their costumes, and it really is and it' a

beautiful sight to see.

B: That& very, it\ very dramatic you know to listen to the druma S Indian (I'ws

and see the dancers come out.. .

C: Dancing to the beet of the drum.

B: Right. Once, and occasionally do you ever do any war dances?

C: No but my sons working on the war dance.

B: He did luh ? Is your son good?

C: He" just beginning to learn but&he doing very well from just starting off.

B: Uswm. Just about all the kids take part in tis don't they?

C: Yes they do.

B: They have a ,time .ding-thi5 don't they?

C: 156a and they enjoy diing it)too.

B: JJmtpa. I noticed that the reception given on December...

C: Oth.

B : On the 5th?,,,

C: 6th.

B: On the 6th of September, I mean Nov-,

C: December.

B: December.

C: Yeah.

B: I cavLt I noticed that, I noticed that kids(hat.donTt want me

to call them that, but I do sometimes anyway) they were doing conventional

dances too, you kn rock and roll music.

C: Yes.





11.




B: ri and the "

C: Yeah.

B: And the, those are fun things for young people, I'm sure.

C: Yeah.

B: I wish I could do more then. But the whole thing was very colorful weait- it?

C: Yes, it was.

B: The food was good too.

C: Yeah they had a lot of it.

B: Yeah. Do you think the center then will expand eventually?

C: Yes. Because-3:t they sper,.alot'*n '68.

B: Unm., I hope there '. always be a center here, don't you?

C: Yes I do.

B: A place where Indian people and other people too can get together and

discuss their problems.

C: Yes.

B: And work out some means of solution.

C: Yes, since I"Se been here Itie learned to do some bead work here, I think

I showed you my belt I made. It took a month and a half and I had nine

thousand, 1ine hundred and twenty beads just in one belt.

B: Belt, that long time to do, JF 0

C: Yes it was a month and a half it took to make it.

B: Do you think its all fun making these Indians things comes natural to your

people does itit?

C: Yes once you get the hang of it you a visit down and really, you know, you'

be surprised at the work you can do if you had the time. Well this was more4-

or less parttime because I was trying to do it you know in my spare time which

I doit have very much of and when I like my lunch hour, at work, I was working

on it. See that\ the reason it took so long cuz I ant steady at it.





12.


t 1 --, .

B: Who is it SE makes the make5 EBs ,= aiPm pieces?

C: The necklaces? The bPCo r p lJ'e? ?

B: Right the S.

C: Well what we had in the showcase. _-C came from wL Oklahomawe bewgha" ts

.f-fto ^k*'-Igfe~flrlag>??Iwl..BgIrI.I -a^ae w aat a>ira ^^iJBJesJ.e"t'e^*'fep .

-baPiietie'p<.,their, .'help-the ndians -out-at.

B: BvI t-to help them.

C: It\ to help them.

B: Well we can do it ourselves cauI we?

C: Yes, everybody did, does beacwork here, it" mostly dkfti, for their own self.

Like I had to make necklaces and head bands for kids in the dance group' who

becasue the dancers really donrt have money to you know go out and buyj

so everybody tries to_ -hey make their own costumes and you know they save

money because theya:' t have, the vy4 have to do the best

we an by making,, i you know buying the supplies to making it, doing it

ourselves.

B: What would it cost to make me a belt? Linda.

C: Oh I doizt know, the beads are high. But it should=im cost maybe about

twenty,twenty-five dollars.

B: Twenty or twenty-five lo t

C: res o % ?

B: lri -a'cat Effy Indian reservations, f oreyt.-td-be-th-e -sae-aasm-w,

s-- me Japan and b .cltSd 1\(e ('

C: Yeah.

B: And this is I guess we can do it chea er that way, than producing ourselves.
A
C: Yeah.

B: That about the size of it?

C: When.'#*





13.




B: But then if, M we doitt make them ourselves theytte not genuine.

C: No, they're hot Indian made.

B: Um-um. But if you get the beads, they are Indian putatogether right?

C: Yes they are.

B: Well that a long tedious process too, I imagine.

C: Yeah, and it it kind of bad on your eyes if you stare at it long.

B: Um-um. Do you make your own costume?

C: I doH have one, not yet. I made my daughter's. I have hers and I, but I

bought her moccasions.but I beaght/iW- her dress and her headband and eet'

hnag and her TA I made all that. But the, moc-, I made everything

except her moccaLons. I couldt make those.
R- e, r tC 1- wlc
B: UM' ta I noticed Mr. -fftt Locklear, was President of the American Indian

Study Center, over at the Lumbee becomingg, was it last year, before last.

SSa And he had on a gorgeous outfit, wonder where he got his, did he make

his?

C: He made his own. He made it all by himself, too!

B: Hey thatO great Do you think I would ever learn?
Mr;,Atl \ r
C: Yes. With help, you could learn anything.

B: Of course.amto'fey the lady who works in education department?

C: Yes and she also is arts and crafts teacher that works with, withljust about

everybody here she i worked with one time or another.

B: UmIum. She certainly dees -good art work.

C: Yes she does.

B: Well I certainly have enjoyed myself ove here since.I first came over here and

I still am.

C: Wer enjoyed having you here.

B: Umnau. Well I certainly appreciate that. And you know I enjoy working with-

the Indian people and o a -- .- attempt to do _
4 )





14.



ae-gerEi" e.tehte I know you!4 e fine. .

C: Thank you.
r.- s v -'.,
B: I thank you and your mother and I sure she must be very proud of you. 'Catme

I dott know anybody who"S worked harder at this center and longer than your

mother.

C: No, we don t.

B: Mrs. Elizabeth Locklear. She is certainly a pearl. so many ways
u t f laces I d know anybody else whose, as-close to the center, with

more points and more people than your mother and let's see. She_. been

here just about as long as you have?

C: No is was, she was, she was here volunteering before she was getting paid but
I always v. I been here, it'll be years in August, she been here

ever since the center started.

B: That was when?

C: 1968.

B: '6

C: It d be the August of S83.

B: That great. I hope it keeps going a long time. Do you get good community
sprot es en Tmnt*Ind.tu5

C: Yes we do. Very much.

B: That" good. And you do believe that this brings about better understanding

between different cultures ' ?

C: Yes.

B: C (2 C

C: Setting up and now they're having a lot of, what is it, tCi\- conventions 0

they have&get to know the Indian ways'and ''theyvhave 4bBlikeg mi-, minority

groups -W r-the tribes '-..iajfr the Indians foods, they know about the

Indian ..te- p (c.in our community and this is something that comes along

since we 'e had the center.






15.



B: Well I was very pleased by I have heard verbally 1he first one I e

tryed ,the proposal t2dt a-t4et you know, er,' f'_



C: Yes.

B: And she told me that the proposal had already been accepted in this project

was calling because wepae want to bring in people

you know who are experts in the field of Indian studies to discuss Indian things

with our people and with other community people and I'k looking forward to this

very much.

C: Yes.

B: We do get a lot of interest from all kinds of places and unfortunately wete

not able to always go and speak at places, we"*e asked to speak iause the-y

just too many of them to get around.

C: Yes that true.

B: So many other things but this opportunity that- cAme this morning is one

that' I ca.i- very well afford to overlook, this, I would like very much to

go on this program by being yes and it will be a ast-to

coast program. So I dotn know, they will have Indian people on it. '=L I

have been suggested and they have aL made their final choices yet VI6 sure

some oft will e on it.

C: I hope =T' i

B: HseLeo. Hope so, you think Tk that something to look forward to?

C: Yeah.

B: Ae~ ou have so many different views. You have so many things to remember like

you have 4Q get out the newsletter, all sorts of things.

C: Yes sir. Lot of duties to do.

B: And you*-e happy doing it on your on?

C: Yes, I enjoy doing it.

B: Well I want to thank you so very much for, for giving me this time -out of





16.




your busy schedule. I know how busy you are and how vital you are to the

e et-I t k JO C" Thank you very, very much.

C: You&e welcome. I enjoyed it.





Full Text

PAGE 1

UL 13A Subject: Linda Cox Interviewer: Lew Barton 1. B: With me is another young lady who has consented to give me an interview and ~~--~,. we woula;,__to interview her right here. Would you mind telling us what your i name is? C: Linda Cox. B: What was, wha..-.,ae yo~:ame before you got married? Mrs. Cox. C: Barry. B: Barry. C: Lowr7 B: I()' ' ' . ~Who~ your folks? C: My daddy was Paul Barry and my.'' mother .w.w. was Kerry Barry. B: Um-um OK. Do you have a famitly of your c'tl 7 ~""are you married? C: B: C: B: C: B: C: B: C: B: C: Yes I am. ,'{) ((s'' , You don.!.t put that in tl!l!tc to aee your name like a"womans libber"? No. Are you happy with this"Mrs." Yes it~ a gain. Who was it you married? Tracy Cox. Tracy? r:r;:s H,/ 'ct,I<11 C.-o -X ....,_j_" T "':/i?"/' fR. -A c '1 Yes. He does that~ why I married him. Br;) Tou have any children? C: Yes we do. B: How many children do you have?

PAGE 2

2. C: Five. B: Five? C: Yes. B: How about that. Well that~~ nice, you got a nice family. Do you know their names -and ages? C: Yes. :C t2o {l~tr~s) ~\ The oldest is Roger, he~ twelve. Then I have Tina, ten. Tracy the third, he~ eight and Balinda, is seven and I have Paula, who is three. B: What does your husband do Mrs. Cox? ,~ C: He~ a sheet rock hanger. B: Do you work? C: Yes I do. I work for the American Indian Study Center. B: ~What is your position there? C: Community service of V.I.S.T.A. B: C: UtlP-Ym. That, good, how (::t'-.. Iv\~, I~ been here, it"$J. be long have you been working here? three years in August, that~ be three years. How long have you been in Baltimore? C: Oh abous going on seven years. ;, B: C'"'t,1/lt:1 tnf 7 if~'\\', ye~ . Do you enjoy living here as well as North Carolina? J C: B: C: B: C : Well, sort of. I enjoy living here but not as much as being in Nort;h Carolina. Becasue in North Carolina you can get out more and be more, you dordt have to be so careful with the kids. You can just turn them loos8;ft ~"vl,,t/)') 11~.~ , ~eirc::... ari4'_ you have t1//eep them pretty well close under you. "'" J,1. ._ ( 1 v.
PAGE 3

3. \~ B: That,near Lumberton, North Carolina? C: Yes about three miles from Lumberton. B: C: What do you th~nk of the"wo~:,n's lib"? ~/ti~ O )C , ...i::-t'f se+fr,t the women up in the t,.Jof" f B: Well do you agree with everything? C: No, not everything. .\. B: Do you agree that women should~~qual pay for equal work? C: Yes, definitely. B: 11 ~Lets get back to 11...._;,t.,,'f /Vls 11 ,,./Aitd How do you find your name? C: Mrs. M.R.S. "' ... ~. B: ~ffl. You~~-.y~e a proud wife. C: Yes. B: p, f That~ good. Do you think women's place is in the home? C: B: Yes, except when they have to work. { c~t--L$.) TT\_,,':-prcf•'--f' " ? j;fyou per fe'r fr> f) c 1 t l•':. C ,. . C: No I like working, I enjoy working. Would offend me if it is mine two people have to work. B: J~-.-, Takes t;.o ./eople _-fu __ /~_ec_.
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B: C: B: C: B: 4. ~?w s9~,~~; s.?: ~: certainly busy and you are too. ;r....t.'},,. -c.1) ''\ Yeah. Startingfoo. That might be a hopeless tr,sk. Hoy about the schools up here. r .. .-,,,.. ?UOtl,~ /'1 _ . maybe ! f.t,) C,-r) \J. re... ... with the schools Do you think back home? No. The only thing-the schools up here are I thin;::k bett:d-in a way kids becasue the kids who learn but the only thing they do~, they donJ.t ~!~ ... ~. you that you•-1"'!"-e in the schools and that~ a big problem. Up here they usually send them home or expell them from school for a misdemeaner. When down home they go ahead and you know the(. like whip them in the eJass. That I; the only problem, difference that I do~ like. I think if they could putnish \j"..... \ them, punish~ kids in the schools we~ have more kids a learnin' better. Cort) of'';\. I ~. Do you believe in punishment? C: Yes. Yesj lt would helf. I mean with, it keeps the kids straight, and they ~T7v-J C\l\r wo.rs t-A:-,e,,.tt f •\~"13'"+ B: .,,..,.,. .A 1.n the i).assrooms. f\ W (. ( f I ~\'\ t"1.. { (7.\ j ( ./ /.-(I_. t-f if) f... r) If.;:',},'\-~, Um-um. "1'12 J urn, 5,aot jg--~~ V !d.t. Everybody does~ J.,~P_P:~ve of it. 1~ Bo,. J. they had, would probably a lot of work he(!;e. C: B: C: .I~. Do youean to work here indefinitely? t _L I -:lt,f: '.x ""~..t , " f' ,, rJ. .,. I ,., .1 ~ !fl -~j , 'v -r.' Yes I.A as long as I just just finish schooling !:gDiag:&La~ " A A.,. ----B: we11 let's hope you do it for a long, long time. You surely want to do that •r,_/.,,. dollitJ you? C: Yes I do. B: About how aany, have you any idea how many times have you answered the phone t.. \).( ,~::) ft"''--l•/ ? --=-'-"'~__._-,--'---,---C: No. Maybe fifty to seventy-five a day and like personal type phone calls has, we usually average just for sales, from the ~rant office, we average anywhere from a hundred and thirty to a hundred and forty phone calls that we handle of

PAGE 5

5. sales individually a month. B: IJm,,i.Ullb I believe your mother says that she began work about 8 :30 and worked till about 8:30 at night. Some~imes, is that the way you are all the time? C: No, my hours run from 8:JO to 4:30, except on Thursday nights, I come down for the dance group. I bring my kids down they participate in the Indian dance group we have here at the center. And Thursdays night is the only night I t'-'\..u,' usually be down here unless something happens I have to come back. But 8:30 to 4:30 is my regular time. B: So actually you, you find that December is not the only time you put in this. C: B: Is it? No. Uh-uh. No. ~Tha~~ only the thing in addition to your regular days think people are happy working here? work? Do you C: Yes I do. I think people enjoy working here B: . ':ti Most of the dedicated peopme aren:~ they? C: Yes. B: How do you think they offered all these programs? C: I think now it 0 ~ going pretty well becasue they have so many people coming in that, they~ helping more now, then they were last year. They have a lot ~~'1?...., alot of new faces around. I think they"t
PAGE 6

B: C: B: C: B: C: B: C: B: 6. ~., "' Of course it~ not used for anything except (:.enter work now. That~ all just the/lenter, the denter rents the back part of the church. w\..,_::-1 I ./' a,,(~ta I wonder~! the church did which moved out of here. Did they TO c.i 1 ,,( I. ? Yes there was three churches and they were having church service at all three so they changed and just having it now at two instead of tge. three. And they eliminated this one. \:,'(\'~ This is a very old building too)i,sut:., it? Yes it :iis. It \~ \.~ "S still, it "Iii. still in good shape Ji~ it? Yes. C: Yes and now with all the remodeling work at the center going and building those schooling. B: I wish I could describe the building how big it is, and how big these offices are. Plus all the toys. You must have about, how many trf {""wCt\" ? C: Yeah. We have one, two, three, four, we have four offices. One great big room and the hallway and a kitchen. B u.n-,m D h k. . h k. h ? : ~• o you muc coo 1ng int e 1tc en. C: No. Just on spectal occasions when we have dinner and home-coming for the church and maybe some of the staff might come in and fix up a can of soup or something but other than that-no. B: The center has .kc,,. f'.',4". C: Yes it has. .. B: Do you have visiting people to come in i:&m allcounties? C: Yes we have Ford coming in, looking around, we have people from all over Merlin, different parts of Baltimore coming in, you know, wanting to look around ant then to become members of the center. B: People certainly seem to be interested. I noticed that during the holiday

PAGE 7

7. e.season1 lEverybody was pretty C: Yeah. Yeah we give our Christmas basket for some of the people in our connnmnity and everybody was busy trying to get all this done and get everything pretty well under control before we went on vacation, fortunately. B: C: B: C: B: C: B: C: B: C: B: C: B: Did you have an enormous quanity of packages to give out? We gave out thirteen baskets. And they were ~i'" 1 l6 4fj 1 ,q'(,•(•(' and ~, the whole l\ft'\.,,,: t ~-e,o Do you know members been estimated that they'\:e all some 3~~J,OOO ~~dian~., in Baltimore and Baltimore area. And I /~t\.~ 2} \".""h .~~t ftJ~ I k '""• 1• I I actual nose count11'j~t+~•-'-•-•-----Um-um. Particularly those who could reach on the telephone, over the telephone. You "J..'-" ~\X', J fL \ , . t..t we'~~~not nearly through, alrea~y_you counted over {I\~ yl'\f...~ f"""' 1 ~ 0 .;:-. 3 S-7 ftr1 c,\,11 I , e s We~ had 3, we have= 9=:::tu:xt::5:r"actullly from this county. .... ,.1 "otwe11 a good many people are~ telephone subscribers. Wouldn!at: be reachable that, that I know. No, we sending out letters, we try to get all publicized all over the towns to "e,j l'-::J ;'/J.s .tl..i.f"V t!A..let people know we are g2ias to -.J and we would like for them to contact wrt--h us to let us know they~ Indianl'.CO ~e,7 CA.I\ '.e., C.c1.1-r\ 1"t!'~, ~. Now do you Jl~' i ,tc.,,~ 1" think it would be much of a problem if, say if the center count from door to door? t Well sort of, I mean we kind of Jthought alot of those people don-,.;&;; have . moved sinc;,we~ been really~ ~And lo .we~ know,")t"eally could~ get ail, everybody from door to door you ky.ow becasue _now tha.t _-.everybody's moved just about rz=ui from Baltimore and l. s"' M 'tit!.. r 'h~ ..... ,v . .J,(' \.) from ... an-<(Broadway) which mostly all Indian Qare Ged. t\ ~.L.LV What brought this, what brought this moving about here?

PAGE 8

8. C: They~~ tearing down, not tearing down but they remodeling the buildings, take in the houses and going in remodeling the whole house and then they ~.~.)•,•~i . 'rent it out as apartments to buy-not rent, to buy them and alot of people that moved in there, they got first opportunity to come back you know if they want the same house and their $500 deposit down, suppose to pay \,t,"c'\eople move to when they leave Baltimoref free.f SaY S#Jt \~ C: Well some of them went on Cra,hb Street an~there~ some went on , [ _ _ a, fl/\ l\ lee( I\;\ ~) Lake Patterson ) Ct~ a&lllr U.kewood Avenue~ _____ Len wood, Penwood avenue and on like that which is a pretty far jump from the center. And you know you would need transportation and you knww just like this from door to door, to, to interviewing and then a lot of times people work and put them anyway during the day. B: Row &bout the hous•ing project? :s:a::=:: HJ-(,.!), ? C: B: C: B: C: You me-, the HUD project? :4~. . t Well I think it C).i,: $re:. coming along very well. .. h ,..,, _.Ai .. I! .l') I e,.. cc" s. +. I, v-..e . , You doa..:.t: jeople out of ouses ~.,-,\ J (?: No because the rela~!:'.', only the relay case and they made sure you have a house before you have to move. You had, you know, they help\ you find a •.,;. house, then also you be move your money so that~ a good point. You have moving money to move, with. f.What ~you see for the future for the B: ~f is v,~ce Ct,, If e ,.,. he fr J?o~@k~ a.ea you think , I t 1 , '_ ? ) -..:,,.-,... _____ .:_ __ C: I think that the center is growing more and more each day and in the close,,

PAGE 9

B: C: 9. \, e in the future like it~ going now, we have a vill•known center all over the world. What is your favori~project or do you have a favorite project? Li\'.~\-, Not really a favorite, but just working~ the connnunity people in general, you Jnow I enjoy working with the people trying to help with them their hel ~, problem and we have alot of people coming in with problems that we do~Some come in with bad _h_e._,_f f.,__,.J_but we try -wa, .tey to give them the impression that we did, you know we let them know we did the best we could and you know in that they had one other problem that something different, they can always come back. We try to do a follow up on our people that we have contact with. To make sure what we try to doJyou know,works out fo~ them. W~.J\k B: Maybe you fa"tell us something about the dance group that comes ou' on Thursda nights 1 is it? C: Yes. B: They come out regularlly? C: Yes. They come out every other week. B: Linda could you tell us something about the dance or the dance came on Thursday night. We started talking about it when the tape ran out, who is C: it leads it and everything? /J e\ f, ,. Mr. Avery (I.,. 0 4 ) he' ,t2ie ft '<, Indian, he leads it. And Carl Harding, who VI is Cherokee is his assistant. And we have about there are about &ive or six drummers that sit:'$ around the frum and there are about ten to twelve damcers C,.~"l,... that'a: in the dance group. B: _f&:_-,....S __ t_,_f_et.._--,_-_f __ .. _. a_. _1 _~r._.r._ .• _-t_J__ ? C: Regular dances um-um. 0:-{ B: C)y.--,_ Well I was looking the other night at course you know I~ a bachelor. C: Yes. B: r I was looking at these gorgeous Indian girls in those gogeous Indian outfits A

PAGE 10

10. ft flC f\f' t. ,, and beautiful ..er,;tt.,:es:md cream \-r \~ r it~ just it"'s,. beautiful, it~ complejion and all the feathers and the, (!,_,) rlgorgeous and to, to watchJsaJ..t it? C: s h (,\ l,<) t.s O(.cI~ Yes it sure is especially when they have their A ..:=-the swan dance and T( !Teverybody' s \, dressed in their costumes, and it really is and it~ a beautiful sight to see. B: -.: ,, U-~ I> That"' very, it~ very dramatic you know to listen to the drums mm:Indian~ \,...\..tt\'1. ) ) and see the dancess come out.•~• C: Dancing to the bett of the drum. B: Right. Once, and occasionally do you ever do any war dances? C: No but my sons working on the war dance. B: He did ) h u h ? Is your son good? ' , r \., He~ just beginninig to learn b1:E,he ""5i doing vehy welJ from just starting off. C: B: ~Just about all the kids take part in ~is don't they? Yes they do. Th h 4' re:r._.f-: . d' . h. d ' h ? ey ave a :J' . , _ time . oing , t 1, on t t ey. ':-\ '-:: and:they enjoy dming it)too. C: B: C: B: ..Urn .. u.m. I noticed that the reception given on December C: ~th. 1\ : On the 5th? ,. C: 6th. B: On the 6th of September, I mean Nov-, C: December. B : December. C: B: Yeah. I ~•--r le~ ht-(f ; l~ . .. -(l\c!:.1 I, -----I noticed that, I noticed that kidsc~do~t want to call them that, but I do sometimes anyway))they were doing conventional dances too, you kn~ rock and roll music. C: Yes. me

PAGE 11

11. B: 11~-:, C: Yeah. B: And the, those are fun things fo~ young people, I'm sure. C: B: C: B: C: B: C: B: Yeah. tJ ft,'=-' -. e.. I wish I could do more then. But the whole thing was very colorful.~ it? Yes, it was. The food was good tog. Yeah they had a lot of it. Yeah. Do you think ~he ~,e~ter 1 th~n) will expand eventually? '~~u -1 S1f\tc> Yes. Because ,:::i:f: they sperti,. alot '68. wt\\ ~, I hope there~ always be a center here, don't you? C: Yes i do. B: A place where Indian people and other people too can get together and discuss their problems. C: Yes. B: And work out some means of solution. \--o'>J c. \'.' < '..C: Yes, since I"lie been here I'~e learned to do some bead work here, I think B: C: B: C: I showed you my belt I made. It took a month and a half and I had nine thousand, 1line _hundrend and twenty beads just in one belt. ,r-ok .. !/PH e, ? Belt, that~long time to do/ a.,"'-/h:;fif , Yes it was a month and a half it took to make it. Do you people , .. think it~ all '("),.-', /. does~ it? fun making these Indians things comes natural to your t...(+ ~\\ Yes/once you get the hang of it/you~ sit down and really, you know, you'iil be surprised at the work you can do if you had the time. Well this was morei~ or less parttime because I was trying to do it you know in my spare time which C'\Ob I don.1.t have ~ery much , ... on it. See that~ the of and when I like my lunch hour, at work, I was working l1~'.'.)--r"'fl reason it took so long cuz I~ steady at it.

PAGE 12

12. B: C: B: k-'"""' W/to tvlv.t/,_. '.'P\'\ t;)l ~, 1 '1N... r)rdc Who is it~ makes the make) tT:r.mt:m:B '-,.,/\ tfatt i Apieces? The necklaces? The b c> f O 'E!"Se~ i C: C. f . Jl .... f () f;e;c; I Right) the ~":ftm.. C: Well what we had in the showcase __ "t'~ came from Oklahome_ we,,eoe~ihe.,:.amca:.Jlft.3 B: C: \~.) It~ to help them. B: C: Well we can do ~'o/,(l ,,, C: Oh I do~ know, the beads are high. But it shouldrc.t. cost maybe about twenty,twenty-five dollars. B: Twenty or twenty-fiveJ..offtt.r.!f C: Yeah. B: And this isA.I guess we can do it che8{ber that way, than producing ourselves. C: Yeah. B: \~ That about the size of it? C: When.• ...

PAGE 13

~-----------------------------------------------13. B: But then if, ff we do~ make them ourselves they~ not genuine. '-• l ,; . C: No, they,:,~ not Indian made. It I/ B: Um-um. But if you get the beads, they are Indian put•together right? ) C: Yes they are. B: Well that~ a lon~ _tedio~ocess too, I imagine. C: Yeah, and it~, it~~ kind of bad on your eyes if you stare at it long. B: C: B: C: B: C: B: C: Um-um. Do you make your own costume? I do ~L h I d d h ' I h h d I b I ave one, not yet. ma e my aug ter s. ave ers an , ut \'.\, . .I 'out 1 ) l\e ef:!:..,,, bought her moccasions_but I b~ti"i\e~ her dress and her headband and -e.e~,• ( ti.-C .::,_ ,1_ . and her n", (?-( r , I made all that. But the, moc-, I made everything except her mocclons. I couldtmake those. Htrtrrt~,t.Jl,c.1 I noticed Mr.~ Locklear~was President of the American Indian Study Center, over at the Lumbee ~mecoming, was it last year, before last? And he had on a gorgeous outfit, wonder where he got his, did he make his? He made his own. He made it all by himself, tool , :, I Hey that~ great. Do you think I would ever learn? t\1rs. A '"' c) !:. ' Yes. With A help, you could learn anything. M 7\ A ;• , r\ 1\'iri t. I .:, Of course~ the lady who works in education department? Yes and she also is arts and crafts teacher that works with, with~ust about "'~\.:',) everybody here she ka1ii worked with one time or another. B: Ylll"!\'Um. She certainly dees L~ood art work. C: Yes she does. ,if...,.-') B: Well I certainly have enjoyed myself ov~:,\here since.I first came over here and I still am. ' \.-..\ ,''. We"-.~ enjoyed having you here. C: B: U~. Well}! certainly appreciate that. And)you know}! enjoy working :,t:t",.,,gh C)., G,l'!.1..fJ' ... -(' >r, ti// .JJ 1.-"H 1 the Indian people and sinful i819uemrticwe heidQ,;,-in, o,der &i-0 If tte1npt to d) . 'l l l\ with_ , L

PAGE 14

------~------14. CR-& tv{\t.1(V<-\t i{ i-~ J t.d,\\l" a-ereenling 1:!ewthi6I know you "'iJ,. 1!e fine. C: B: C: Thank you. I thank you and your J, ,-~,; \ I do#!:t: know anybody mother. 'i' ,.,I._ No, we donJ,._11. ~'M-, mother and I"'1 sure ~:, who"'S,. worked harder (1'1.._ ''"' , ..... . "1 ,.,_ ... . she must be very proud of you. '~ at this center and longer than your \-('IP /. S /) e -:.\,Cf'./"'\ i ('\ Locklear. She is certainly a pearl. ' so many ways ~!)t \~ I d~ know anybody else who's.. as;close to the center,. with more points and more people than your mother and let's see. She~; been here just about as long as you have? C: No is was, she was, she was here volunteering before she was getting paid but j .J. 1.l)\i ~0'Jlj.., ;:, I always) b-v.1I been here, it'li be~ years in August, she"s. been here ever since the center started. B: That was when? C: B: C: B: C: B: C: B: C: I c,. l_ll "'i lf~ t the August of ':o8,. That~ great. I hope it keeps going .J: r;,p (>Prf f-n:w, ;\rr,\ •,..rt\l If\t'\r,f r~, Sf1V ts en m,n.Ioo~ Yes we do. Very much. a long time. Do you get good communmty That~ good. And you do believe that this brings about better understanding ,_,, between different cultures ) •, ! ,~ 1 -., Yes. ? Setting up and now they~ having a lot of' what is it, c-rk fli~ conventions l I., th ,~ h 'tl~ ' k h :r d. , ~•~h 'h 1 ~l.k t . . . eJ , aveAget to, now t e :i.n ian ways an1;1, :~ .. e~, ave _..i ee mi-, minority ..(FrN\ ' &, ~-\,.C.Lc ,,,,_fgroups the tr:i,be} do tbi s :f0,r thel\ Indians foods, they know about the Indian~ p-c.r3t?c_in our community and this is something that comes along \...,::,,)"since we'-e had the cenier.

PAGE 15

--------------15. C: Yes. B: And she told me that the proposal had already been accepted in this project t ... .:.. ~{. r f I t f1' II O , _,r,. , ! .-.c., .. l r, .f was calling .OYi ~-t (. 1 1 1 ' ! , r.. ('\",•; .J. that~ I c~•very well afford to overlook, this, I would like very much to . go on this program by being~ '1 mob,'leyes and it will be a c~ast•to• ~61~ ) f\1ttf coas'' program. So I dom..t: know, they will have Indian people on it. ::m,. I h b d d h h d h f" 1 h". b~I~'II\. ave een suggeste an t ey ave.w;;:tl!. ma e t eir ina c mices) yetJ A sure (,{r ser --\ some of~ will Jfe on it. I hope t:r::.(.o f •. B: ~. Hope so, J)o you think) "Pi that'..:'something to look forward to? C: Yeah. B: ~~ou have so many different views. You have so many things to remember like you have -QQ get out the newsletter, all sorts of things. C: Yes sir. Lot of duties to do. ~>~•~,. B: And you~ happy doing it on your on? C: Yes, I enjoy doing it. B: Well I want to thank you so very much for, for giving me this time .out of

PAGE 16

C: your busy schedule. ~r?t-t.,.f Jo ty,\ 16. I know how busy you are and how vital you are to the Thank you very, very much. ~\_\-k:>_ You~ welcome. I enjoyed it.