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SAMUEL PROCTOR ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM at
the University of Florida.
St. Lucie Tapes 2. DS
TAPE 2: Senator John J. McCarty also John D. Almard, Jr.
Inroduction: Born in what we call downtown Fort Pierce Town, and he
went to school there. He was born in the of the court-
house, the of the St. Andrews Episcopal Church. Well, when he
went off to school and since he has moved from there. He is still
law office down there, so now he is practicing law in the
office in the of the courthouse, and he is prac-
ticing law in the courthouse, and he is practicing dow at the St.
Andrews church on the new literature. So between the two of them he
is keeping pretty good, busy. He went to the public schools here and
off to college. He got a double LV degree, a AG and what else, that's
it. He has been passed through these different offices about as many
times as I have, because the state hasn't been so good to us all of the
time. So we are both kind of what you might call confederates, and in
the meantime, he took time to go off to World War 2, combat major. If
he had any difficulties in war, I was going to let him tell you about
that, but I know that he knows how to handle firearms. I know that he
is one of that if you caught a rattlesnake up and get
him to have his rattle round, he can shoot the head off faster than I
can get out of a Volkswagon. I've seen him do it. He has a lovely
wife, a lovely home on the Indian River. He has a daughter. His
grandmother used to sing in the St. Andrews church, his daughter sings
there now. He has a boy, Tommy. I don't know what he's going to do
2
with Tommy, but Johnny seems to be ranch manager. He, our speaker, has
a little ranch out southwest of town. A few cows, hens, four ducks, and
quite a few citrus groves. I think he got about enough, but he is going
to try and tell you what he thinks about the situation as it is now. Is
my pleasure to give you... I don't know whether to say senator, judge,
or brother or just John. So I think I'll just turn it over to John.
M: Looks like you put me in the right uniform this evening. Just put
that there in case you do want to hear, grandmommie. Mr. President, I'm
delighted to be here. I want to thank for that generous intro-
duction, kinder than I expected. I think that after twenty-two years you
could have been a lot less generous. May I say in beginning that I
should confess to you, as I look around this group, that I would feel much
more at ease, were I out there listening to you reminisce, because I
feel some of the things that mentioned, taking me away from
Fort Pierce have ineffect deprived me of many things that I would like to
know and recall about our county and city. I'm not concerned at all
about the future of this organization, Mr. President, because your pro-
gram chairman is most persevering. He asked me and asked me and I re-
peatedly declined and finally told him that I would be glad to speak
to you all in July. I think he of course realize that you may quit for
the summer. But, at any rate, about ten days ago, he called me back and
said that he had had a cancellation and would I please reconsider. I
said yes that I would, but it was against my better judgement, and so I
do apologize to you all from the beginning for coming here this evening
3
out of terms, when perhaps you would have had a good break in July.
When he asked me to think about some of these things, about the family,
and to talk to you about some of the pass events in my family, I was of
course hesitant and I still don't know exactly what to say in that
regard. But for many of you who have been here longer than I and I do
not quite qualify on that announcement that Miss Annie made about nine-
teen-five. I would like to take you back at least, say, fifty years and
reminisce with you a little bit through those years and then make several
comments depending on what time I have left about any family situation.
Before I do conclude, though on my acknowledgement to Mannie, let me say
that I am reminded by his invitation of one of our old golfing parson
down at St. Andrews that was badly beaten in golf by one of the elder
members of the congregation. He felt very despondent as he returned to
the clubhouse, and the older man said, "Cheer up, after all remember that
eventually you'll win because you'll be burying me some day." And the
despondent parson said, "Yes, but even then it will be your hole." And
I think that the reason I had to accept Mannie, was that Mannie and I
along with Walter and some of them"that approach the church as a label
of love in many instances have made a commitment to each other that we'll
see that we get up and down that ailse for the last time. So I wanted to
be sure at the rate I was going that Mannie was there to see that I got
down that ailse the last time. Speaking of St. Andrews, if you have not
visualized from introduction, I was born about a block south
of St. Andrews there on Indian River Drive. In going back to that fifty
year period, I would reminisce with you that at that point the four
houses in the block were occupied by my mother and father and our family,
4
and then the three Sample brothers, Adrian, John, and Harry, and of
course if you old timers will recall at that point, why, pineapples were
all up and down the ridge there. And since I see Adrian and Margaret
sitting here, I have to go back to the recollections of going back and
forth in that block as actually the first recollections I have of Fort
Pierce. My father died in 22, and I have a few recollections prior to
that time, for example, sitting in church with him or being in family
gatherings with him, and I recall when he and Mr. Williamston
after World War I to pave the road out to so that they could
get to And I remember distintly, the real shining
lights of that period were one time coming in right at the end of Georgia
Avenue and Fourth Street, which was just the flat Savanna. Some of the
old by-planes coming back and landing in there after World War II, and
then steamrollers working on that road out pass the Delaware School and
that type of thing. But all of those redollections'have .to take second
priority to the fact that as I think and live in downtown Fort Pierce
forty or fifty years ago, you have to take a tourdown Indian River Drive
to Avenue A and then up Second Street and then back down. As I do that
for example, I think in terms of what we think of difficulties with the
younger generation today, well let me tell you that in those days it was
the real fine easygoing life in Fort Pierce. If on Saturday after school,
you could go out on either Uncle Adrian's dock or the Gulf dock or even
down to Walter Peterson's dock and fish and catch a few
sheephead or something like that and then come back down and with your
buddies cook themnsomewhere. That was really living. And, of course, as
you made that trip to the dock, you had to go by a place that many of you
5
will remember and get a chuckle out of and that was Billy Whistlebritches
place. Now, he was a barber on the west side of Indian River Drive at
that time. And I should comment to you that some of you may not recall
this increase in our highway system, but at that point it was US I,
Indian River Drive was, and of course there was a little bit of traffic
there,with Model T's and that kind of thing and Uncle Adrian had a very
fine ModelT.that Charles and Wallace and all of us used to enjoy riding
in around that area. And of course, anytime you rode or walked by
Billy Whistlebritches, if you just whistled regardless of who, he was
working on he would always answer and whistle back at you. Now I've
left out one step as we go up that street, and that is that the East-
coast Grocery was right there on the corner of Orange Avenue and Indian
River Drive. And I think that this is more or less a tip as to the re-
lationship of the community at that point. I've already mentioned
Uncle Adrian's dock and the fact that Uncle Jack and Uncle Harry lived
righ there next door. Everything in the sense, was very friendly at that
point. When you stopped in the Eastcoast Grocery, you either saw Uncle
Jack or Uncle John Harris, or Daddy-B as they called at
that point, and for those of you fellows who went down there, you re-
member that there was always that big ole sack of peanuts sitting there,
and everybody would take a few samples and move on down the street. Well
I know every Saturday they ran more kids out of that store, grabbing t.
those peanuts than it was allowed but, at the end of the block of
course, you would reach the bandstand where Bandy and the Band always
tuned up on Sunday afternoon. And, there wasn't much to do on Sunday
6
if you missed the boat to the beach, except to go to that band concert.
Of course, most of the kids ran around and made more noise than the band
did anyway. But at the end of that dock right there, at thjfoot of Avenue
A was of course store and nobody can make any reminiscing
remarks about that period of our community-without referring to Mr. Cob's
store. And of course there you have Uncle Dick, W. T. Harbin, you had
Mr. Miss Ella, Ella Hankins, those people were just as much a
part of everybody's community life as anybody could be. And of course
you may recall what impressed the children at that point was that Mr.
Cob always had a box of candy back there in his office and after you
were able to buy anything, why then your parent always took you back
there and let you get a piece of candy from Mr. Cob. So, that period of
fifty years ago is still, fifty to forty years ago, is about as fresh in
my mind today of the many pleasant experiences I had here as anything
could be. Seeing Fannie Richards sitting here, I must have caught my
first ride in the old sea plane with Richards when I think it
was when they opened the inlet here. And it was awful rough that day
and that could be why I haven't ever really had a charge out of flying
ever since then, but I'm satisfied the only way we ever got up, we
bounced into the air that day and it was quite an experience. The turn
from up Avenue A of course, came to the next corner where Uncle
the hardware store, and of course Bought us some grocery.
An on down the street was and Uncle Harry had an old thea-
ter there that was part of every one of our lives, because at that point
we didn't have anything but silent movies. And every Saturday night,
mother, and the other mothers took turns reading to all the kids on the
7
back row, 'cause Uncle Harry would let all of us sit up on the rail of
the back row so we could see over the heads of everybody else. And one
of the parents would read loud enough for the rest of the kids in that
row to hear. So, we had some great experiences there, and of course
there's no comparison to or nothing to aver take the place of somebody
like Mr. sitting there laughing in one of those movies. As
I'm sureaall of you recall so vividly. After the, that part of my
experience in growing up, I think that I should reminisce a little bit
on out farther. And that was the fact that in that stage they had the
elementary school at: what used to be St. on the corner of
tenth street and orange avenue, but prior to that time of course, it was
the elementary school. I went to school there in the first and second
and third grade. And all of you will recall that the real landmark at
that in our lives was Mr. store on the corner of Ninth Street
and Orange Avenue, where the best licorice and in town were
found. And in passing, I should say that that Miss and Mrs.
Anderson and Mrs. Bullard, my first three teachers there, made a pro-
found impression on me at that stage in my life, and I think had as much
influence on my approach to getting an' education as anybody did. I
moved over in the fourth grade for the first year on Delaware Avenue and
of course as you think back on these things that I'm discussing and re-
miniscing with you about that changed another approach to the town and
approach to the school, because instead of going out Orange Avenue, for
example, you then cut through the old SEC depot and got a drink of water
and had a good greeting with Don Mustang or somebody like that there and
you then slipped on down the railroad with the. old wire by Uncle Stan
8
Kerby's packing house where you can get an orange or a tangerine right
there at Seventh Street, ease on across the street, either by Mr. Register's
or through Uncle Gussie's backyard and slip on4there down Boston Avenue
and you were at school. This was almost a daily routine, going and
coming right through those short cuts and enjoying the people as you saw
them change with the community. And of course at that point, the Florida
East Coast Railroad was still the biggest thing in town. To have a train
come through here and all was still an event. Somebody asked me why I
never get upset at trying to be on time or get about missing a train,
I say, "Well I guess it's just training because over the years you al-
ways just sat there at the dinner table until you heard the train come in
over at the station and then you'd get up and go over and get on the
train. And you didn't think about having to run thirty or forty blocks
in traffic or with a taxi cab or something like that." Then of course
everything changed after that period because we got away from having cars
lined up and down the side of the football field with the parents lined
up there behind the rope, and a couple of the professors taking tickets
if they could catch kids coming in and that kind of thing. They moved
from that period of athletic activity behind the school down to the JC
fieldAwhich was built of course with Bob and a lot of you that are here
in this organization we calling the work here on the east side of Fourth
Street. That came however, after we had gone out to field. At that point
I believe it was Milwaukee had a baseball team here and they had a field
out on the west side of Thirty-third Street. And of course the events of
of moving back and forth trying to keep an athletic program going in the
school just before and during the height of the depression:were something
9
else. I'm a stop just a second to digress, Mr. President, to say that
when you can't think in terms of who is where on the river without, be-
cause of the change of ownership during the boom and that you would
have to go back thirty-five or forty years and think about it, well,
that just gives you an indication of how time has flown because forty
years ago you were right in the height of the boom. And you'd have to
go a little bit farther back before that to remember who was where. I
believe that I should your indulgence to say that from the
fourth grade on Delaware Avenue, Margaret was my teacher,
Mrs. now, and then of course in the fifth grade was Mrs.
Gleason, a great distinguished lady as far as teaching. I don't mean
with any derigatio o the others that I'd mentioned, but Mrs. Gleason
was at that point in her life was just a with silver hair and all that
she just impressed you from the start and you couldn't help but learn
a great deal from her. She had spelling contests every day and of course,
I'm going to mention my grandmother in a minute, but she was a great
one on that because she always made us spell down at home anyway. And so
it made me feel at home where there was Mrs. Gleason. In the sixth grade
Mrs. Ishabell Snow was my teacher. Incidently many of these are still
alive and here ofcourse Mrs. Gleason is not. In the seventh grade that
was our first junior high school adventure, and this was over on the
west end there at Delaware School. And this was the time when we began
to get into the changing of classes which was of course a new experience
and quite a thrill because up to that time one teacher had taught you
everything, all courses. And then you began to get teachers like Mrs.
Helen taught mathematics in junior high school, Miss Gillis
10
was an english teacher, Miss Hornbeak was a teacher there, Miss S
was there on history and civics. All of these people had a profound in--
fluence and effect on all of our lives at that point, because we didn't
have the many ._ and distracting things as we have confronting
students now. In the eight grade, many-of those teachers remained the
same and then of course, in high school I could just reminisce all of
the time available to me to recall for all of you people like Miss_ ,
a great latin teacher, and one of those lovable people that you just
remember all of your life. Mr. Taylor used to come out and blow the
bugle to get us all in from lunch time. He was quite a character as
far as our principal. And then I guess it was due to the boom
and bust and the depression, we had a tremendous turn over. We had
about four principals in a row there, and I won't take time to go into
alA f that but I would like to mention of course, the fact that we had
a great athletic event during that period in Fort Pierce and St. Lucie
County. Some of you will recall that we had the state champion AAU
basketball team in Florida at that time. And we'd and
after that with Al Gordy and George and a lot of those fellows
and had a profound influence on all of us through our athletics
because he was a very great coach, probably the greatest national athlete
many of us have ever known. And, of course, he taught us well and he
certainly-made the most4trying to get everything out of us that he pos-
sibly could. All of these things of course had slipped by in the past,
and as you know are easily forgotten and unfortunately so little appre-
cated. And yet, as I recall those years of high school and1mistakes we
made and the things that we got by in the days of the Model-T and then
11
the Model-A Ford, I can't help but wonder how short a memories we have
when we stop and recognize what difficulties our own children have today
or our own grandchildren have today in these problems that confront them
with television and high-powered automobiles, and easily obtainable be-
verages or whether it's marijuana or LSD or what, you can't help but won-
der how lucky we were to be coming along when we were. I think that all
of these things, of course have been just part of the tremendous change
in, in the community here. When you stop to think that in the period
that I've discussed briefly with you, and reminisce about my ...., as it
looked to me. When you think about going to the beach only on an occa-
sional picnic by __ and you have to go over in and walk along that
little dike there with running everywhere, and mosquitoes and
sandflies about to devour you, and then when you got to the beach why
you'd race for the water, and when you were ready to come back why you
waited until the last minute to go back to try and get on that boat to
come back. The changes there of course have been tremendous. I think
that without a doubt if our beach had not been closed during World War II,
by the naval base over there and the thousands of amphibious troops that
were trained here, that we would have a much greater city here now. And
I think that certainly our beach is still one of ourbiggest assets, and
I think that eventually it's going to bust loose if we ever do get this
new south bridge. That would make quite a change in our whole community
picture. We've changed of course. We no longer have an SEC railway in
the sense of, of the tourist capacity that the trains could bring us. We
don't have an immediate air facility hereAyet, with the network of
roads and all, I think that, our community has grown on solid ground and
12
I think that it will continue to improve. I'm going to, said he
was going to leave it to me to mention about the World War II experience.
Let me say that my only comment about that little period in my life was
the field, and come back to the fact that coming back to the United
States from the Pacific, after a couple of years, was probably the
greatest thrill of my life, and coming back to Fort Pierce, and just
realizing I'll never forget when I sat down and received my first notary
public commission from the secretary of state in 1946, and I looked at
that expiration date, you know there're issued for four years, and when
I saw the date on there 1950. I couldn't help but feel, my god,
I never thought I'd see the day. And I was just so grateful to be back
in Fort Pierce and St. Lucie County, because I had traveled quite a bit
around the country during my training and I was satisfied it was the
greatest place in the community, in the world to live and I felt like I
wanted to come back and do what I could about participating in the com-
munity life. Now, I see so many of you herecthat I recall vividly, ex-
periences that I would reminisce and inject and include things about those,
but I'm going to limit myself. And yet, I do want to say that as I see
Lee and Miss sitting over here I wanted to comment that one of the
fellows I think had a real influence on my life was Corbett King. I
don't know how many of you remember Corbett, but he used to be, in my
book, about the best white truck driver a boy could ever see or ride with.
And when he used to let me ride with him on Saturday and drive that thing
occasionally coming in from ten miles with a load of fruit. And I must
confess, that he badgered me until I able at the packing
house at ten miles to finally get a cracked box of food up over my head
13
and press it like these boys lift weights now. And, in those days, the
biggest thrill I had, he used to scare the daylights out of me
'cause the horn didn't work on that thing, but we had come rattling on
towards town there and he'd-. just stick his head out and he would give
them that whistle and he'd go right on by, and it was really something.
I've always remembered that and the work that I had a chance to do:with
him. I think that since this is being recorded, and wanted some
comments about this, that I'll ask you to allow me to just make a couple
of family comments, because I said I was going to reminisce with you for
the last forty or fifty years, but that limits me and I have to now turn
to a comment here in a book called the East Coast of Florida, and I want
to just think out loud with you a minute that I've been so happy and
grateful that my grandfather did have the opportunity to come down here
in 1888, and he moved his family here then. My father was born in Wis-
consin and went to school in Iowa, my grandfather, I meant to say, and he
came down here with his three sons in 1888 and lived down at
And I want to read just a paragraph here from that book, to give you a
tie up as to my grandfather and grandmother, because they had married the
same year that they graduated from Benton Academy up there. They had
been classmates together and then came on down here with their boys.
C. T. McCarty built a fine legal reputation in Fort Pierce, and was at-
torney for theboard of public instruction, the town of Fort Pierce and
the Florida Eastcoast Railway Co. He was also in partnership with A. C.
in real estate. He was the director of the bank of Fort Pierce,
first president of the Board of Trade, president of Florida State Hor-
ticulture Society, the animating spirit of the County Good Roads Associa-
14
tion, and was always found in the front ranks of those working for the
improvement of Fort Pierce, St. Lucie County, the east coast and the
state of Florida. He held the highest rank in masonry. His wife, the
former, Barbara Elizabeth was one of the first school teachers
in the Fort Pierce area, at one time teaching six grades in one room.
She was one of the founders of the first library and the first womans'
club in Fort Pierce and was very active in starting the Methodist Church
in that community. I should only comment of course about as all
of us knew my grandmother. I recall that someone helped me remember that
when she couldn't get the proper discipline with the students in the
classroom with her bottle of castor oil, why, at point, the walls was so
built that all she'd do was take one boy over and hang him\on the rafter
there until he was behaving and quiet enough to let him down. So I
think she must have been quite a character in the sense of making herself,
herself felt at that point in her community. Then I'd like to skip
down to a generation and read a short paragraph about my father, from
the same book. In addition to his principle occupation as a citrus
grower. Mr. McCarty was president of Fort Pierce Bank for nearly two
years before his death, which occurred in 1922. He had been a director
of the bank since his father's death in 1907. He was also a director of
the EastcoastLumber & Supply Company in Fort Pierce. He was a mason, a
shiner and woodman, and a member of the Bishops Committee of St. Andrews
Episcopal Church of Fort Pierce where he attended regularly. One of the
striking characteristics was his loyalty to his friends, his devotion to
his family and church was often noticed and he never refused an appeal
for aid. I read those two paragraphs to conclude by saying that I don't
15
really remember either one of those two gentlemen to well, because I was
of course not born when one died, and only six when my father died. And
I make this observation in order to confess to you that women have had
a tremendous influence in my life, because my grandmother was a very
important person in our lives. Whenever my mother was away and she
stayed with uV why, you wouldn't believe the discipline, unless you
were exposed to it, that we had around the house. And I mean that for
everything from standing up on the side of the carpet to do your
spelling after supper or to getting up on the this morning to take
a cold bath in the tub before you went to school. And you had to get
in that tub and turn over three times, or else you couldn't have break-
fast. These things of course had an influence on all of the children
in the house. And of course, my mother, as has observed, sang
in the choir down at St. Andrews. I would like to comment that mother
came down here from North Carolina. her home, either in, Margaret you
can help me, either in 1903, or early 1904 to visit her sister. Alright.
And then they were married in 19....She met my father then while she was
visiting her sister here, and Aunt Annie. and then she came to know my
father and they were married the next year in Charlotte. And they came
to, what I call, the home placekat 303 Indian River Drive, and the fact
that it was just a block from St. Andrews and the courthouse I'm satis-
fied it has had an influence on my life And I think the fact
that mother had three of us in school at one time for example, would be
an indication to you of the type of mother that she was to see that all
of us got through the university, and kept after us until we did. I
believe that the concluding remarks that I would like to make would be
16
that I, oh, I'm not going to say anything about the present generation
or the next generation in my-family, we're at that point now here. You
know as-much about their mistakes or misdeeds or accomplishments as I
do so there's use for me to your time now, but I would like
to observe that it's a sincere feeling that this group and any group
that is doing what they can to really keep Fort Pierce and St. Lucie
County going is typical of what I would like to think my family would
like to have a feeling for, because having been here on the river now
for, what, eighty years,.I feel like we've seen some changes and we'd
like to try and continue to help make some changes. I just feel with-
out trying to lay it on too thick, you may get that feeling that there's
no question in my mind that certainly this is a great community with
a great group of people here and while we may make a lot of mistakes
about badgering each other or disagreeing with each other it's still
going to continue to be a real pillar of strength in the whole state,
and I feel for our nation and we'll get through some of these problems
that we're having. And I just thank you so much for letting me come
early, Thank you.
A: John, I'm going to say thank you.
I might add that John's father, my father had a grove in
creek. This white truck John mentioned,
quite familiar with us. Don't think they ever wore it out as wore out
two or three men trying to drive it. That was quite a reputation of the
white truck at that time. You didn't were them out, they wore the people
out.But, as the time is progressing now I would like to mention this one
17
fact. Time is passing on, if you have any any antiques, keep
them in mind, don't let them get away, we'll soon have a place we can
put'em. Someday you'll regret, some little thing that you had, I use
as an illustration, I remember when my mother used to boil the clothes
in a wash pot, 'cause I had to chopthe wood to put under it. Guess
what? We have one on our front porch, that we had to buy. That's the
way things disappear- You find later that a just a little attachment
that you only wish you had it. My mothers' sewing machine is now a
table in my house. After a little work on it and what not but, its still
got the legs and frames that it had originally. Some of you may have
things of that sort that you have. Some of you may have someof them
in the original state. Those things in time will be very precious
to those who follow us. We all go down and we look at antiques and
think about the life as it was during that day, and wonder how people
got along with them. We all speak of the good ole days. Now I want to
tell you, some of the good ole days wasn't so good. I can remember.
They were rough. McCarty just told you here how they rushed to get
to the beach and waited till the last minute so they wouldn't have to
wait on the boat to come back. And that's no kidding. Young ladies put
newspaper; around their legs before they put their hose on. And it was-
n't for horseflies it was for mosquitoes. So if you have any of those
little things that you have, knick knacks around that youNthink anybody
would want. I'm mention a little something if you'll excuse the per-
sonal reference. The other day, a lady came to my house, asked my wife
if she wouldn't like to have these. They were pair of spectacles shaped
liked Ben Franklin might have had 'em, almost rectangular, on the side
18
bar it was adjustable to fit different size heads. Now the family they
came out of had to be back in the time of Gene grandfather,
if that means anything to you. So _tried to have 'em,
had them around the place. One more thing before I quit, I'd like to
mention to you that if any of you haven't paid your dues Mrs. Cobb is in
a receptive mood, and stay that way. And if you hear of anything or any-
body that's got something that would be of value to us and you think every-
body would be interested in it, tell Sanders. He's always
looking for somebody to speak. Again, I want to thank all of you
visitors who came here for the first time, and you old regulars, for
the priviledge of being here with you, and I hope you won't regret the
decision.
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