Interview with Glara and Sara Wohl, February 26, 1974

Material Information

Interview with Glara and Sara Wohl, February 26, 1974
Wohl, Glara ( Interviewee )
Wohl, Sara ( Interviewee )
Publication Date:


Subjects / Keywords:
Hillsborough County Oral History Collection ( local )
Spatial Coverage:
Hillsborough County (Fla.) -- History.


This text has been transcribed from an audio or video oral history. Digitization was funded by a gift from Caleb J. and Michele B. Grimes.

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Samuel Proctor Oral History Program, Department of History, University of Florida
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This interview is part of the 'Hillsborough' collection of interviews held by the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program of the Department of History at the University of Florida
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Ybor Tape Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Interviewee: Glara &Sara Wohl- July 26, 1974
Exteachers 1913-1927
Tampa, Florida 1l

Pagel AAa

My name is Sara Wohl, W-o-h-l, Juster,J-u-s-t-e-r. I was born

and raised in Tampa, Florida.

I: When were you born?

S.W.: Answer, unintelligable because everyone was talking at the

same time. I thought in the Ybor, the B.M. Ybor school, for two


I: When did you teach?

S: 1923 through 1925. I thought this ah, you call it charter, what

you want to call it? Charter or--

G: We classified it as Charter.

S: Yes, Charter A and Charter B, we had two sections. I thought

children of Foreign Parentage. These children came to our

classrooms from the age of six and up, some coming from foreign

countries like Cuba, or Spain. These children did not know a word

of English, at that time, being that their parents were of foreign

countries, and not knowing the language they had to start from the


I: Ok. You thought Chart class then?

S: I also, ah yes, I thought chart class, teaching

English to foreigners is what was the start. When these children

came to us, to our home, to the classrooms, they were called by

their nicknames and many of these children didn't know a word of

English. If it was Paul, it was Pepeto, or if it was Juan it was

John. And they would not answer to their real names until we

introduced and told it to them.

Typist: Margaret Lenkway
July 26, 1974

Page 2

I: Their real name being, you mean--

S: Being John,they wouldn't know, they only knew-that, they only

knew their nickname.

I: Did you teach any of the grades, or only Chart?

S: Only Chart.

I: Ok, so you thought Chart--

S: Two years. Of course, I thought one year, ah half a year, I

substituted in other schools, but you're interested in foreign


I: Right.

S: My, ah, supervision was under Glara W-o-h-l, Wohl. Whom I received

my weekly charts, every week, at the B,M. Ybor School. There were

about 19 of us who used to come to the B.M. Ybor School for these

programs. When the children came to us we started out by teaching

them their name, their parent's, sisters, brothers, cousins, neices

and nephews, who they were which was part of the faimly. From the

family we went to the parts of the body.

G: you better read back.

S: And then from the body we went to the um, ah, --

I: Are you reading this?

S: No, I'm saying this, she wants me to read it but, oh anyway

G: That's the outline on the whole thing which took my principal

and I to work it out. So you can give him the direct thing right

from here. Unless I"read it, but my sight isn't what it used to


Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
July 26, 1974

Page 3

S: Ok, the larger number of our children come rom--

I: I want you talk, just don't worry.

S: From homes in which no English is spoken and are unable either

to speack, or understand English. We must place them on the same

footing as the children from American homes. In order to do so

aftetiyears of experimenting we have devised a system of our own

which we believe to be superior for its purposesfin the United

States. This system is applied in preparatory classes known

as Chart classes. The term is a misnomer as charts, no charts

or books are used. A better term would be Americanization

Classes. These Americanization classes originating at the Ybor

School are now found in several of the city schools. My work,

you know it's not mine I'm talking for my sister, my work has

been in these Americanization classes, one of which I teach

and the others of which I partly direct. A short synopsis of our

methods might be of interest to the public. Now our method as a

whole is unique, it is not original in many of its parts. It is


I: Is it-- eclectic.

S: Eclectic.

I: That means mixed.

S: We sought anywhere for ideas, and adopted any we could use.

The prominent points of the method are that it is direct, objective

and dramatic. These somewhat technical terms should be explained.

By direct we that only the English language is employed. That

purpose is to compel' the children not only to use english, but

to think in English. If a child knows that a mention of mind can

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
July 26, 1974

Page 4

be effective through use of his foreign languages_

there will be less effort to speack English, and if the two

languages were used together the child would form the habit of

speaking in the foreign language and then translating it into

English. This is when his English expression

less ready and exact. By objective methods we mean that every

substantive word is thought, actually presenting the object it

represents. We supply the information in the order it is most

usable. Beginning with the child himself by teaching the names

of the parts of his body, his articles of apparel, the furniture

and equipment of the school room. From the school we go to the

home, he works with miniature houses, fully furnished, in which

he is thought a of English that he may use at home.Next

we pass to the street and teach the various occupations beginning

with the peddler, the grocer, the dry goods merchant, the shoe

maker and proceed through the whole range of employment. Every

commodity, every impliment is thought objectively. We use the

Dramatic theme mentioned, all words donating acts are

by accompanying the words with action and a connected story or

project. The prepositions and adverbs are thought at the same

time. The pupils are peddlers, salesmen, shoemakers, dressmakers,

machinists, mailcarriers and policemen.

There are 19 teachers doing this Americanization work in the

foreign schools B.M. Ybor School, School,Getty

School, McF School, School, School,

W.D. Henderson School, School. Any person who is

Ybor City Tape Typist: Margaret Lenkway
July 26, 1974

Page 5>

interested in this work is extended an invitation to visit our


I: And this would have been written about-November, 1924?

S: That's right.

I: About how many years have these been going on?

G: I don't know whether it's been discontiued or not.

I: When did it first start?

G: It started in ah, about '21.

S: It started a couple years before I started teaching.

G: Yeah, let's see now this is ah,now let's see now, I thought in

1915 one year, 1916, I thought in Ybor school the first grade,

about 1918 or 1919.

S: 1918, 1919.

G: And I continued this for many, many years, but I dropped out in--

S: You dropped out in 1925.

G: And I dropped out in '25, my mother died and I had other

obligations to go to, and they ah used this for how many years I

cant tell you, Sara because she started

under me to, she was with me, so I don't know, for years they

used this method.

I: Ok, why don't you introduce yourself?

G: I'm Glara, you want, I'm Glara Wohl, and what else

you want to knea?

I: Were you born and raised in Tampa?

Ybor City Tape Typist: Margaret Lenkway
July 26, 1974

Page 6

G: I'm born and raised in Tampa, I ah come here, I ah,

Graduated from Hilsbourough High School, then I went to summer

school, thought so many months and then I received an LI Degree.

That's know what that is, and I have a license,

examination. Then I thought, then

I thought so many months

Which I hold a primary license.

I: Let me ask you, when did you start teaching in Tampa?

G: 1915.

I: And you stopped in 1925?

G: Yes, 10 years.

I: Did you teach all 10 years in Ybor?

G: All except one year.

I: What did you do then?

G: I went to the, I started out in the East Tampa School.

I: Oh then they transferred you, or--

G: They didn't transfer me, at my request, I asked to go the-

Ybor School, they had no vacancies then. And East Tampa wasn't

as foreign as the Ybor school but the Latin people were out

there to.

I: That is Tampa?

G: Yeah, but I can say between 75 and 90 percent were Latins over

there, I say 75 percent Tampa .

I: 75 percent? 9/yIk j

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
July 26, 1974

Page 7

G: Well I'd say 50 percent.

S: In East Tampa yes, but in the Ybor City School--

G: In the Ybor City School 100 percent--

S: 100 percent-- And there were 1600 pupils at that time.

G: And I felt I wanted to go to Ybor because I been out there

all my life and I felt that I wanted to go out to Ybor City. It

was my request to go out there.

I: Oh I understand your family did live in Ybor City for awhile.

G: All our life--

I: They had a grocery store there?

S: I was born and raised in Ybor City. I was born at 1520 East

Broadway, which is used to be 7th Avenue, and when

I went to teach school, well in my early childhood I started at

the Ybor City School and in the classroom there, which when I went

to teach school I thought in the classroom that I started school.

That's interesting, isn't it?

I: Yeah, in Ybor.

S: Ybor City School. I received all my education through Ybor

City School, through the sixth grade.

I: What about your sister who went to the convent, I think?

S: Yes.

I: Course, and she's the older sister.

S: Yes, she's the oldest one.

I: Things had changed by the time you both were--

G: I went only to public school_ went to the Ybor City

School In fact when I went there

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
July 26, 1974

Page 8

the principal that was there--

S: You know the Ybor School was one of the largest schools at that

time, there were 1600 students there, and --

I: At which time?

S: At Ybor City School--

G: At the time that I thought.

I: About 1922?

S: Wasn't '22. At 1922 there were 1600 fine children at that

school, it was the largest school in this part of the community,

you know.

G: I don't know this you were,

way before your time. But our Latin people used to call

in Ybor city. They didn't go to old other sections and that's why

the children could speak English the way they did, but now all

our foreigners they move to different sections and Ybor City is a

thing of the past, you know that yourself. Now

as I regret cause Ybor was the most beautiful city

you could live in years ago. And ah--

I: What about Tampa Heights? Isn't that ?

S: That's headlorn.

G: Tampa Heights ale@ used to also be a, when they went from

Ybor City the people, they moved to the Heights and that was one

of the nicer-sections in the City. And eventually with the changing

of-ah, conditions people moved to Davis Island and different other

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
July 26., 1974

Page 9

parts of Tampa. And Ybor City had this Latin atmosphere that was

the most beautiful in the world, and the parents of the children

were the most grateful people you have ever seen. In fact the

parents used to come to, bring their children to school, stand in

line with the child until the child went into the classroom, and then

in the afternoon when classes were over they used to come pick

their children up and take them home. They were all so devoted--

S: They didn't have policemen like they the students, k L

didn't have automobiles, the really brought them over there.

I: Didn't the parents have to work, though.

G: In those days mothers didn't work, it was the father's that

did the work.

I: Oh, the mothers would bring the children, 0 A in Mi ';.r

G: Yeah, the mothers would bring them to school, and then they

used to send an apple or cookies, or something for the teacher, or

even one little flowers they were so grateful, you know, because

the opportunity that the parents didn't have, they want their

children to have, so that's the And

ah, at recess time we used to all go out, with our children

in the yard and you would hear them all jabbling in Spanish. They'd

all be talking Spanish. And ah, of course we always told them that

they should try to speak English, because when they go home they

can teach their parents.

S: And see we took a personal interest in them, we used to visit

the homes on Friday afternoons and many children that had problems

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
July 26, 1974

Page 10

we tried to help the parents with the problem.

I: Well when did this practice of home visits begin?

S: The what?

I: The home visits? When did teachers start doing that?

G: When we were'there--

S: As I say I'm sorry to tell you that I kept up with education

but not exactly with the school, through what I read in the

papers and practically all my friends that had thought, you know,

I didn't ask them any too much questions, when we visit each other,

but we did go visit everybody--

G: Friday afternoon we used to go visit the parents and see, because

in those days they had large families, by the time they got through

having one they'd have another.

I: Un huh.

G: You know they believe in large families.

I: As far as I know in 1923 till.1925 both of you were visiting

parents on Friday afternoons.

G: That's right. On Friday afternoons, we used to go together.

I: Now before 1923 you were teaching for at least eight years.

S: Uh, huh (affirmative).

I: From 1915 to 1923--

G: You were teaching about six years--

S: About six years.

I: Did you do those kinds of visits then, by yourself?

S: Yes, I took a personal interest in all the children. I gave

them little gifts at Christmas time and if I saw that a child didn't

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
July 26, 1974

Page 11

have lunch, which we didn't have lunchrooms at that time,I would

see why didn't they have any lunch and I would see that they had

something to eat. And if a child didn't have enough clothes, I'd

provide them, everything I do in a secretive way, not to hurt, I

wouldn't tell anybody what I was doing, because I don't believe in

publishing what you do good. Everything was done for the interest

of the person and his family.

I: Now, would this, the children you would ah, be involved with

these were first graders too. What grades did you teach besides

pre or chart?

G: That's all. That's all she thought.

I: You thought chart.

S: I thought chart, I thought second grade down at East Tampa School--

G: Yeah, but in Ybor School--

S: In Ybor City School I thought Chart, pre-school.

I: So you used to visit to those children's parents--

(Can't tell who. just said what. Also at this point I should note

that I may be getting the two ladies mixed up and it is very hard

to tell who is speaking, and so you may have to figure it out. I

am at a loss as to which is speaking, and can only indicate that

a different one is making a comment, not which one.)

I: So you were dealing with children who were mostly five years

old, or--

G: Six, from six to eight.

I: In chart classes?

YBOR City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
July 26, 1974

Page 12

S: Well I had some 11 to 13.

I: In the Chart Class?

S: When they come from Cuba they couldn't talk a word of English,

they had to, they put them in the baby class,_

I: How would a boy who was almost a man feel?

S: Terrible. I used to have one kid there that would flirt

with me, really. And of course the conditions of the classes were

so large the school was too small for them when I thought, and my

first year of teaching experience was very bad, because I had to

have the auditorium, where they had nothing but benches, which were

slanted and you had to take the children out from the classes

periodically for rest periods. So they would take in, one of the

big boys would take his hand and slide the benches and they

would.all fall down. And if it were a rainy day, we were in the

auditorium where it was dark, and the kids used to get scared

to death, we were in an auditorium, but you had a regular classroom.

G: You know years ago education didn't have the advantages that

it has today. When our foreigners came here and wanted to learn

to talk to learn English they had a hard time, because they

didn't have those classes, then finally on they had more classes.

And right now you know, the opportunity they can learn English very

easily. And then as I told you I thought ah, ah, night school.

Teaching those to become citizens.

I: You mentioned that you thought night school, ah, at Ybor you

thought it?

G: We did everything at ybor.

S: B.M. Ybor School

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
July 26, 1974

Page 13

G: B.M. Ybor School.

I: And when did this ? It's very important

for me to keep dates clear, because some-things change.

G: Well I'll tell you I can't give you exact dates because this

was a period of 10 years that all these things happened.

S: Glara, when you thought nightschool is that when Morris was


G: Yes.

S: 1921, that's when graduated.

G: 1921.

S: She thought night school in 1921.

I: For a year than?

G: Well I can say--

S: About three or four years.

G: About a couple of years_

I: So in the early twenties you were teaching night classes?

G: Yes.

I: Who were, who were people attending night class?

G: I can't--

I: Were these children or adults?

G: No, adults. This is adult education at night. Do you have it


I: Now I do. I didn't know this.

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
July 26, 1974

Page 14

G: To become citizens you had to be a certain age, don't you?

I: Well-

S: You have to be in the country a certain length of time.

I: You mentioned an Americanization classes for the--

S: Children.

I: -- children, and then you mentioned night classes for


G: The Americanization alwaysVfor adults. That was under

the government.

I: The night class was. You mean the county or the federal?

G: That was, well I I always got my checks from the county,

cause I was in the

I: Professor Crow was--


I: -- directing this I think, wasn't he?

G: Yes.

I: Now this was something, I I mentioned, heard his name

mentioned, and I'd like to ask you about that--

S: Oh, he's a grand man.

I: I jotted down a question--

S: Frank C. Crow--

I: Frank C. Crow-- here it is. Public night schools1 for those who

couldn't attend school in the day time, that was 1912

G: Some negative answer.

I: now this, ok, let me explain what I read in the paper and you

Ybor City Typist: Margaret LEnkway
July 26, 1974

Page 15

can straighten me out on this, because it's very vague.

Apparently they had night courses for anybody over 16, who did

not have to attend day school, which meant adults.

G: Yeah.

I: They also had nightschool for children who were under 16,

but had to work during the day.

G: That I never knew.

S: I never knew that.

S : That we never did.

G: I never did that, mine were all grown, they were in their 20's

and 30's and 40's, cause I thought in night school. And I had a

book that I thought them from, not from my talk, and the book I

gave to the University of Tampa. "Teaching English to the

Foreigners." I don't remember the name of the author.

I: That was, was that--

G: "Teaching English to Foreigners."

I: Ok, let me get that down.

G: Now that's adult teaching, that's not, that was for to become


S: To become citizens. See.

G: To get their citizen papers. And then I would get the government

book of questions that they were going to ask them, see, and prepare

them to answerthose questions. Which is so entirely different now.

I don't know I can answer one.

"July 29, 1974

Page 16

I: That's a problem. How many nights a week did the night class


S: Was it three nights, or--

G: Two nights. Two nights a week.

I: And about how many people would you be teaching at a time?

G: Well I didn't have more, I wouldn't say--

S: She must have agout 10 or 12, the most 15.

I: These were men or women, or mixed?

G: They were mixed, and ah, a lot, they weren't what you call

a real educated class, they were mostly--

S: Cigar makers.

G: Cigar makers.

I: And they came here so they could get their citizenship

papers, to become an American?

G: That's right, that's right. To become Americans.Meanwhile

they learned English to, conversation English. It wasn't, ah,

what you call to reading, writing and too much arithmetic, mostly

conversation. Questions and answer s in regard so they could take

their citizens: papers out, mal-en teach them to read .

S: teach them to write.

G: I didn't teach them to write.

S: cause I used to go And sit in on her classes

to accompany her, because we've always been together, and she used

to teach them the pledge of allegiance, and how many states in the

Union, and who was the president, and what was his duties and the

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
July 29, 1974

Page 17

vice president, and things on the constitution of the United States.

G: And they learned to say "I can walk" and they demonstrate, and

"I can write" and they demonstrate it. They wrote and ah, --

S: But mostly it wasn't anything pertaining to teaching them

English, it was only to become acquainted ...

I: Facts--

S: ...with the facts of the --

G: Everyday conversation, you would say until they made headway.

I: When you say it wasn't to teach them English but everyday

conversation you mean, did you teach them, ah let me think this

through-- Part of your, your responsibility waso teach them

conversational English?

G: Yes--

I: And this meant "I see the cat," or "I see the Dog," that type

of thing, or not?

G: No, no. You see what they came for mostly was questions and

answers on the...

I: Oh, I see...

G: ... on the government

I: Most of them knew English, though, didn't they?

S: Yes, some of them knew a little bit of it, enough to understand

-i: I'd say of the 15, you'd say five were really educated

that they knew more than the rest of them,

that they knew more than the other, but in groups of teaching that

Ybor City TYpist: Margaret Lenkway
July 29, 1974

Page 18

way you do. And, but they were lovely people, eager to learn,

you never seen anything like it. And it was very interesting

and, actually I don't remember how long we were, you see it

was so many years ago to become a citizen, it's differently now,

everything is so different. So they became citizens and they

kept up within quite a number of them. Took their papers and

passed it.

S: They'd meet her on the street and say "you used to be my


G: are you Glara Wohl? I'd say yes,

I didn't change my name. "You haven't changed", I'd say how

can you say that-- look at my gray hair.

S: She was a good teacher, all right.

G: I know one thing, they appreciated me very much, and the Latin

people sure do appreciated their teachers. It isn't like it is

today, what ever the teacher said, went.

I: Would you say that was because parents were ah, teaching

respect at home?

S: I'd say. The parents paid respect to their parents and the

children paid respect to the grandparents, you know it handed

down from generation to generation, not like today --

I: Did the parents talk to you then about these things?

S: Oh, yes, the parents used to always come to talk about their

"children, they were always interested.

G: Sure they were.

S: They didn't have in those days like they have today\parents

dayand you know likevthey have guidence day, and so forth. If.

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
"July 29, 1974

Page 19

we had a problem with a child we would send a note home and the

parent would come and talk to us, and they'd try~nd help correct

whatever it was, or either we'd go and visit the parent at their


I: What was it like to visit parents at their homes?

G: Oh, it was wonderful. We knew all about the Latin people--

S: We Do speak Spanish.

I: In other words, you lived in Ybor City --

S: All our lives--

I: I started to say before I think I detected a note of protest,

you started to say "uh un(negitive) it wasn't that way." Did

your family live in Ybor City; behind a store or something?

S: That's right, that's right, I was born behind the store.

G: I'm not ashamed of anything, I can give you our family whole

life history. There isn't a thing--

S: I was born and raised in Ybor City, behind the store, there

were three of us that were born behind the store on seventh avenue.

I: My grandfather was the same thing, my mother lived behind the


S: Our father came to Tampa in 1897, and he was one of the pioneers.

And we had one of the store that was like a commissary, we had

everything from a bolt and screw to a children toys to whips,

buggy whips to oil cloth, and all the items that were used in

I: It was more like a merchandise store, right?

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
July 29, 1974

Page 20

S: It was, yes it was like --

G: Like a country store.

S: We were the first merchants in Ybor City, before

and then, they had the barter system in those days.

I: The barter system?

S: Yes barter, b-a-r-t-e-r, the barter system.

I: I didf-t know it was here?

S: It was in Tampa because the farmers used to come in from all the

surrounding cities, likeflant City and Lakeland and Winter Haven,

they didn't have any, um ah, they didn't have stores like they

have today, and they used to come to Ybor City to all the merchants

and they would sell the eggs to my father for 25? a dozen, or

whatever the price was, and they wanted a washtup, or they wanted

a board, or a broom or something, my father in exchange for their

eggs would give them whatever merchandise they were getting.

I: I was wondering--

S: That was, was very interesting, I tell ya.

I: I wondered if there was some prejudice about this fact, that

there was barter and Jewish people were often bartered. I wondered)

because I've heard from at least two different old time Latins, about

the Jewish people would always argue about prices, and Latins' didn't

like that.

G: No, no, the Latin's were the ones that argued, and the Jewish

people wouldn't give in cause they wanted their price-

I: Oh I see.

G: We never had any trouble--

S: Never in that area, but all, practically all the merchants on

the avenue were Jewish, practically.

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
July 29, 1974

Page 21

I: On which avenue?

G: On Seventh Avenue.

I: By merchants you don't mean--

G: All the stores, all the business people, were all practically,

wereall, were Jewish.

I: What were the Latins doing?

S: Cigar makers, mostly cigar makers.

G: All were cigar makers.

S: A d our father used to sell to the cigar cutters. You know
the cigar makers in the olden days used to make the cigars by

hand, and they'd come to my father's store and he'd sell them the

cigar, the cigar machine and he would sell them the parts for the

machines, and then have little cups that they used to make for ah,

when they taste the cigars, with the, I don't know about it with

the little q-tip, and always the day that people would come, they

would, payroll was on Friday, and on Friday they used to come to do

all their purchasing, after they got their checks. And on Saturday

was the day that everybody would prominade on the avenue.

G: On Saturday evening.

S: _

G: There used to be movie pictures, the merchants used to give

them a free show--

S: -- and have a band play, a band play. But all the stores, all

the ah, ah, buildings in Ybor City had porches, balconies, they

called them balconies. With the iron wrought--

I: Wrought iron?

Ybor C-ty Typist' Margaret Lenkway
July 29, 1974

Page 22

S: Yes, and they had that. So one week they would play on one

block and the next week they would play on the other block, and

everybody would stand up there and look at the movie pictures.

Then after the movie pictures was over the stores were crowded.

G: And the women used to dress-up so beautifully, the Latin

women, with their shawls and their fans, and it was the most

beautiful thing.


I: It's like putting flesh and blood onto the bare bones, is what

I see in the papers.

S: You see now when the used to go on Saturday nights, the women

used to have their finery, and they used to put perfume galore, that

it smelled, when they went on the Avenue it was a wonderful aroma,

and the boy and the girl would go in the front and the mother and

father, or sister and brother,or somebody, would tag behind as

chaperons. They never went a lone, they never trusted their

children a lone.

G: Let me tell you, the Latin people had a wonderful

people. They are perfectly lovely. We have many doctors, dentists,

and what not, the most-prominent people are our Latin People. You

know that yourself.

S: Of course in the olden days when they came from\q foreign country

they didn't have this opportunity for themselves so they gave it

to their children, and as from one generation to the other, now which

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
July 29, 1974

Page 23

is really in Tampa, the third and forth generation, and they

really are to bless.

G: The reason the Latins moved out of Ybor, because Ybor

was neglected, and the homes weren't kept up, you see people

didn't have the money, we did have some wealthy people, but the

majority were middle class, or they just rented it. And they

didn't keep it up, therefor'thle- happened, they moved out,

And then I don't have to tell you

a lot of business have changed in other sections, but so has

the residential, and that's why you have what's in Ybor City

now. It's a shame they woke up too late, cause they could have

had the most beautiful place.

S: But the colored people came in, they took over. And then

of course the expressways took some, a lot of these homes. In

fact we have a family of two girls, that my sister thought them

in school, that worked for us 30 years now, of our place of business,

and these two girls father and mother lived in Ybor City, on 19th.

Street and 14th. Avenue, and the father had lived in that house

for about, his parent's had been in that house--

G: Yeah, over 50yyears.

S: For about sixty years, or more that they lived in that house.

Course the expressway took it over, then they moved to another

section. And that's what happened to a lot of people from Ybor

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
July 30, 1974

Page 24

City. And of course the old time pioneers are over, and son

now There are a lot of wonderful

people in the City of Tampa. Manufacturers. In fact we knew,

we knew a lot of them ourselves, personally.

I: I don't want to sound too head strong, but I gotta' get back to

this education thing cause I gotta--

G&S: Oh, go ahead.

I: Ok. First of all ah, we covered that, teachers, ah. How did

the American teachers who came there that didn't know Spanish,

weren't too experienced about this Latin Culture, ah handle themselves

or manage to adapt to the situation over at B.M. Ybor?

G: Oh beautifully. There was no ah....

I: What was the process? You know, you come there, you're brand

new, what would happen to you in the first three or four weeks?

G: Nothing, you just go right a head. We have faculty meetings

before. And 4e learn the children very quickly...

S: They get into the swing of it very easily..

G: Right, right easily. Beautifully. In fact all of the teachers

were really Americanized girls, that were raisednn other cities

or in Tampa.

S: Now they had Angle and Evylyn...

G: Those are two Spaiish girls that we knew that tought....

S: Evylyn and Angle, and ah.....


S: Are the only two foreigners except, you wouldn't consider us

a foreigner, would you?

I: No.

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
July 30, 1974

Page 25

S: __weren't foreigners either, they were

two -c girls...

G: And ah, what's her name um, ah Rose

S: She thought in Ybor City School.

G: She's Americanized just like we are, see.

I: How do you mean she was Americanized, like you? I thought you

both were American's anyway.

G: We were born and raised ...

S: Were Jewish, we're Jewish.

G: We were born and raised in Tampa, but we're American Jews.

S: We're American Jews.

I: That's what I thought.

S: See out parents came to this country fro omania.

I: Oh, so that's what you mean by you were Americanized, in that

your parents were, that is to say..... came from a foreign country.

S: Our parents were foreigners from a foreign country.

I: Oh, so like Rose ...

S: Yeah, and all those people they, they, her father---

I: They were Americanized teachers?

S: They were Americanized teachers. We were all born and raised

in Tampa, or though-I, at least, finding the generation before

ours, the older ones were all immigrants, they all came from

foreign countries.

G: Just like with Cuba, from the Spain on, and the

majority of them that were in Ybor City came fromnpain, Italy and

Cuba. See that's how they me to Ybor City, and that's how they

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
July 30, 1974

Page 26

went there among their people. See some of them would

come there and then before you know they'd have relatives in Italy

and the Italian would come here and they would bring their relatives

from Italy over here, and that's how they did it. First the younger

ones would come, then they'd bring their grandparents, or their

fathers over, and that's the way we, they all started over here.

I: Well you say about 19--, right around 1921-1922 there were

only about five,well let me see, at least six Americanized teachers

in B.M. Ybor.

G: Well what do you think aboudAmericanized--

S: You mean teaching Americanization, or--

I: Ah no. Teachers whose parents were from other countries, or

ome from other countries. I'd say about six.

S: No that I couldn't tell you, because we had a faculty of about

40, didn't we?

G: Oh, we had a faculty of 48 in Ybor City.

I: At that time?

G&S: Oh, yes.

G: So I can't tell you the history of those at all.

I: And you a lone had 19 teachers in baby class.

G: In the Chart .

I: Charts.

S: Yeah but that was from 6thir cities. That was from, I read you

the names of the schools, in the city.

I: So those 19 teachers did include Pand ,' rn and

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
July 30, 1974

Page 27

G: From the other schools. See the names of those, the names

of those schools were other schools that have foreign children.

S: They had, those that had foreign populations, like West Tampa,

and East Tampa...

G: And the Philip Shore School, is another one in Ybor City, and

the W.D. Henderson, those were the schools that had foreign


S: Those that had foreign children and couldn't speak English,

those are the Chart classes, that we organized, which were 17

in the city of Tampa.

I: Seventeen Chart Classes in all?

S: Yeah, 17 in all.

G: 17 in_

S: And there was in Ybor School you and I, there were only two

Chart classes. And ah---

G: No, no there was about four of us Sr; v next to

the basement---

S: You were in the basement, and I had a class. Didn't Angie and

Evylyn have a class? They weren't they didnt___

G: Angle, Evylyn thought Chart.

S: Evylyn, yes, three...

G: How about Grace ?

S: No, I don't_

G: There was about, about four, four, four chart classes, at Ybor


V. %y yplsu: margarer LenKway
July 30, 1974

Page 28

I: Just four alone_

S: Yes, just four alone, the rest of them was all from other

schools, that had foreign born.

G: Had two and three in each, sach age group.

I: Why did you call it Americanization classes, in the news

article, rather new chart classes?

G: Because that's the name that our principal suggested.

I: Principal Crow?

G: Yes.

I: And another thing, who were the principals at the time, say

between 1915 and 1925? Crow was there?

G: Yes. Caldman, Caldman.

I: Caldman.

S: I don't remember his first name.

G: I don't remember his name.

S: Professor Caldmen, we used --

G: He started after they gave up, they tried t6 take the Ybor

School and turn it into a Platoon School.

I: When was this? About 1925?

G: That must have been the--

S: about '24.

G: -- the year my sister died--

S: 1924, between '24 and '25.

G: Between '24 and '25. They took the, that was from Columbia,

who suggested it. The Columbia--

S: University.

Ybor City TYpist: Margaret Leniway
July 31, 1974

Page 27

I: Was that Dr. George Stringer and Ebor Hart, back in 1925 that

did that, school study? I know it was done in 1924...

S: Yeah, '24--

I: ... and the results were published in 1925.

G: Was it ever published?

I: Oh yes, I got a copy of it.

G: Does it name Ybor School, or what?

I: Yes.

S: I'd like to see it because}ny sister was supposed to have

published our book at Columbia, but my mother died.

I: Which book? Not the one that--

G: No not the same one--

S: Something like that--

I: Would you like to see it?

G: I'd like to see it sometime--

I: I can--

G: I'd like to see it sometime--

I: Sure--

S: It has the article in it?

I: Ah, it doesn't have any article in it, it, it's ah, like a

general survey with lots of maps, and lots of descriptions and it

mentions Ybor, ah, in a very general way, it talks about Ca Latin

children, but very scattered.

G: Oh then never mind--

I: It uses them as a general, it doesn't speak specifically of any

of the teachers, or anything like that. It's not a very personal

type survey, it's impersonal.

xoor clty Typist: Margaret Lenkway
July 31, 1974

Page 833 O

N" It was just a general survey.

I: Very general.

.SN: Well that was the kind, that's the kind that I assumed.

G: Now I went to the Ybor City School myself, see. And I

started in the first grade there.

I: About when was that? 1910?

G: Yeah. About 1912.

I: About 1912 you started the first grade?

G: No, let's see I'm--

S: You don't know. What difference does it make. I'm not saying

anything, you tell----

G: I was born in 1905.

I: 1905?

G: Yes, and I was six years old, so in 1911, 1912 I went to Ybor

City School.

I: Was Cook or Greer, principal?

S: Cook.

G: No.

I: Cook was principal?

G: ifot at the Ebor City School, when I went.

IS': Well Cook, no.

Cl: I don't remember who was principal, when I went to school.

5: Cook went in the High School. I know he thought high school when

I went, Professor Cook.

c': Professor Cook thought at George Washington when I went.

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
July 31, 1974

Page 4.31

I: He's never been principal here?

G: Cook was never principal--

S: Coleman was principal after Crow died.

G: No, no, Coleman took over after, Crow took over after Coleman.

S: Coleman went to Senior High, West Tampa Senior High, and Coleman

came and took his place. Coleman was supervisor of the Grammer


I: At Ybor?

G: No, all over the City of Tampa. He was Supervisor Coleman, had

charge of it, he was, yeah, he used to come to see us before

gave up.

S: was principal when I started, and then


G: Before being principal Coleman, was the -- Woould you call him

the supervisor for the Grammer Grades. He used to visit around--

S: remember, I can't remember.

I: I'm very concerned about the name Coleman, becausee there was

Solemn back about 1915, when was

superintendent of the schools?

S&G: Yes.

I: He fired, and this made the newspapers for about a month, and'

Coleman took the thing to court.

S: I don't know anything about it except--

I: But they said not to confuse this Coleman, with another Coleman

who was teaching in Orlando, at the time.

G: This one didn't teach in Orlando. This was the principal of her


Ybor city Typist: Margaret Lenkway
> July 31, 1974


I: And that's him.

G: I can't --

I: I guess he was reinstated then, because---

S: I don't, I don't know. I know that he was a fine man, he was

well thought of and he was a supervisor, and all teachers were

under him, we had general meetings. Now that may be true about Beuhaltz.

We don't know the history...

G: You mean about Beauhaltz?

S: Beauhaltz fired Coleman, now you don't know anything about


G: I don't know anything about that.

I: Oh that's, that was in the paper.

S: It was in the paper.

I: It was right there, and Coleman wrote a letter of protest, and

Beuhaltz wrote a letter of response.

S: Was it"W"? "W".

I: Ah, you mean the Coleman?

S: Yeah.

I: Yes it was. It was W.F. Coleman.

S: That's him. That's him, I remember that faintly, I hardly

remember it.

G: I don't remember that.

S: I don't remember exactly.

G: I know that we all thought a lot of him--

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
August 1, 1974

Page 41-33

I: Either W.F. or W.H. Coleman, but it was a W. Coleman.

S: W.H. Coleman, I.think, I think that's what it was.

I: W.H. Colfan.

S: I think that's what it was. Something happened that he was

put I remember something...

G: I remember that...

S: I remember... Professor Crow came and took his place.

G: No.

S: Professor Crow came in after Coleman, Glara.

G: No.

I: No, I think Coleman, came in after Crow.

G: Coleman. Sara, I thought under Coleman, and he was the one

that wanted me to go to Univer--, Columbia University with the

platoon system. That was the time that Crow went to, asked him

to go take one of the Junior Highs...

S: Oh, yeah.

G: And Coleman was Supervisor of all the, it was ... Oh, what do

you call it, Grammer Grades, or what do you call it?

S: KJ if Y_ c- -

G: Elementary.

I: Um huh.

G: He had charge of all of us. And we used to have monthly

meetings, and he was the one the main one, in school.

S: He was a nice man, ah, Mr. Coleman.

G: Oh, yes very nice man.

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
August 1, 1974

Page 34

S: Oh, he was a wonderful man, a very kind man and so was Mr. Cook.

G: Both of them were very nice.

S: Very fine people.

G: Yeah, I just thought one year under each of them.

I: Somebody mentioned a principal of Ybor _

or something.

S: That, that's him.

I: Oh, that's Coleman.

Since everybody is talking at the same time, I am unable to make-out

any of this section.

S: he left.

I: He left?

S: He left, whether it was or not, I don't know, but

I know he left.

I: These are the kinds of things I've got to straighten out.

S: Yeah, but he left.

G: I just want to tell you about those two

great men. They're both dead, they were educated they were kind,

and ah....

S: Mr. Coleman, the only thing I can say about Mr. Coleman is that

he was very strict.

I: He was very strict?

S: Very strict. He wanted his teachers to be perfectionists,

Ybor City Typist: -argaret Lenkway
Aug. 1, 1974

Page 35

I: Ah how was he concerned about this? What did he do?

S: Ah what I mean is that when he came into your class--

I: What were his ? What were his concerns?

S: Well he was concerned when he came into your classroom that

you were aware of what you were doing. The room had to be tiddy.

The teacher had to be tiddy, and she had to be a lady in every way.

And if it wasn't he had you transferred. He wanted you to knwo what

you were doing, and your whole interest was in your school work.

And he was very, very sincere and a very fine, highly regarded

man. That's what I can say about him. And that Professor Crow

was the same way.

I: What was Mr. Crow like?

S: What was he like?

G: What was he like?

I: As a person? Just give me an-idea. Sorta' personalize him;

for me.

G: He was a sweet man, you can say.

I: Was he older? Or younger?

G: His son----

S: Oh he was young, Coleman was much older then him.

G: Oh, yeah, Coleman was way, about sixty, or something like

that, when I thought. He was in his sixties.Now Professor Crow

was ah, in his early forties.

S: Early forties.

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 1, 1974

Page 36

I: Was he tall? Short?

S: No, he was, I would say he was a man of about 5'6", about 5'6",

and he sorta' had broad shoulders, and he had a very nice statue,

and he had very lovely brunette hair, he had a very fine family,

and ah, we knew his wife and his son went to school with me.

I: I understand his wife was interested in educational programs?

S: She was to.

G: She thought school.

I: She thought school?

S: Very fine. His wifds name was Esther.

G: Esther. Oh, she thought school.

S: That's right. And they lived in Dallas Point.

I: Ah how would, would he commute everyday by car?

S: Yes. Now they used to come by streetcar in those days. But

his son, if you want to know anything about his father, giving

him pictures, or anything, call Frank C. Crow, ah call Hilton Crow.

I: Hilton Crow?

S: Yeah, that's his son. Hilton...

G: Hilton...

S: Hilton Crow.

I: You say his wife was a teacher, did she teach in Ybor?

G: Very shortly.

I: Oh, but while he was principal there, was she still teaching?

S: Oh, not in--

I: Somewhere?

G: She substituded.

S: She substituded very little, next to nothing. I don't know

what school she went to, but she did teach school.

Ybor City Typist: margaret Lenkway
Aug. 1, 1974

Page 37

G: She was very pretty. Very charming person. Now I do not know

Mrs. Coleman, like I knew Mrs. Crow.

S: Course Mr. Coleman had a son that was ah,paralyzed or something,

he was in a wheelchair.

G: He was in a wheelchair, and it made his life very sad. It

sadden his life, ever since I knew_

S: Don't publish that in your book, now.

I: No Im not writing a book, anyway.

G: No, I mean your thesis, because those are just little personal


S: But ah, they were two fine gentlemen.

G: Oh they were a glad to teach under them. If I had my way

I would select either one of them again.

I: Would, did you know of any of the programs that Mr. Crow was

doing for the Latin people, or I know that he had a night class

going, and he tried to organize all kinds of things, did you know

of any of those things?

G: No.

I: I know that he and his wife both were teaching ah, an Americanization

class, I don't know what year.

G: I don't know either.

I: His wife helped him do something like that.

G: Well you see when I thought Americanization there was-several

classes in Ybor City.

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 2, 1974

Page 38

I: Yes that was children you were teaching?
G: Me? No, well the nightschool.

I: Oh, the night-classes, I'm sorry.

G: The night classes there were several of them. There were

advanced classes to.

S: Professor was teaching one of them.

G: Professor Coleman was teaching at that time to; You see

I took those, well I can almost say that weren't educated in

their own language. I'm not downing anybody, don't misunderstand

me, but they didn't have what you call a "high education", well

high education like in my town high school was considered real good.

I: You mean these were people, adults, who didn't have very much

educational schooling.

G: That's right.

I: Very little school.

G: Yeah, that's right.

I: They spent all their lives working?

G: Well I don't know, you better not say that.

I: Well it's true.

G: Don't say that in you thesis.

I: These were people that spent most of their lives working,

and didn't have time for school.

S: Didn't have time for school.

G: They didn't have time for school, I mean I don't want to

bwn anyone.

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 2, 1974

Page 39

G: You know I fell'everybodies a we don't know

their background...

S: Listen they come from a foreign country where they have to

start all at the beginning.

I: That's right.

S: Now today ah, ah, you know that, in the olden days when the came

from Europe or foreign countries, and theylanded in New York, they

were highly educated people, just like the people that just came

here from Cuba, they were doctors, they were lawyers, they were

dentists and school teachers. And what the school teachers doing

now? They're doing housework. And the doctors came here and they,

there's no reciprocity, they had to start from the beginning and go

into interning here before they get their state examination, it's

the same thing with these people, they had no opportunity to,

unless they knew the language, if they didn't know the language,

they had to start by either going into being cigar makers, or

housewives for somebody, or something like that.

G: Professor Crow had a class to, that I can remember. I know

that he thought at the same time that I took beginners, being that

I had Chart Classes.

I: Who was in charge of those night classes, that you and--

G: Mr. Crow, Professor Crow.

I: And were you paid to teach these?

G: Yes.

luor uity jypisr: margarer LenKway
1 'l6 Aug. 2, 1974

I: Oh, I see.

G: Sure I was paid.

S: Sure, when I started teaching school you know how much I got


I: No.

S: $65, a month. And $2.50 for substituting a day.

I: Two and a half dollars a day?

S: That's right. And I went on the street car to the schools, to

be happy. I substituted for half a year, and thought regular for

two years. T e first year I got sixty-five and the second year

I got seventy-five.

G: The sixty-five may be one-hundred and thirty now.

I: Let's see it's more than that.

S: I don't know what they get...

I: It's not too much.

S: Well of course in my days, I graduated from high school, and I

took my teachers training course, in high school.

G: All right, what else do you want to know?

I: Ok. What kinds of handicapps, what were the most important

learning handicapps that the children had, in trying to master

English and master the other things that you thought them.

G: Their handicap was their homelife. That they were, as soon

as went home from school, they spoke Spanish immediately, the minute

they entered the house.

I: So you really mean language was their ...

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 2, 1974

Page 41

G: Yes.

I: Not the home life.

S: The language, the language in their home.

G: You see because their parents were foreigners and they

natural lived according to the foreign ways.

S: ANd they colonized,they didn't, they didn't, they weren't

aggressive like today. They were satisfied, they were satisfied

in their homes to carry on the traditions the same way they did

in their foreign countries.

G: You see they'd rather be with their own people, the Latin

people. Cause they had their same customs and habits of living.

So the children would go back to the same environment. So it was

kind'a hard for us to Americanize them that way.

I: So, let me see, so I guess putting the parents into night

school would have helped solve that situation.

G: That's right.

,S: Well this took time.

G: But the parent's couldn't afford it, cause in those days they

had the kerosene lambs, and electricity just started, they didn't

have the telephone,they didn't have anyway of progressing. So the

mother had to stay home all day and wash and iron and cook and scrub

and clean and take care of her children, so she didn't have anytime

for education.

I: Well let me get back to this problem of Americanization. Now

Americanization ah, meant teaching them English and also helping to

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 2, 1974

Page 42

change the customs and what not that they had so that they could

intergrate themselves and assimulate into the new way of doing


G: No but we didn't enter that field, we just Americanized the

children, but we didn't go to the homes, at all and try to Americanize

them. Because we weren't asked to do something like that.

S: Her adult class was strictly teaching them--

G: To become voters.

S:... To become citizens.

G: That's mine in night school, but I didn't go to the homes

at night, I didn't dwell into their personallife--

I: I made a mistake, what I'meant was the children. In other

words, we got the problem of children that come from a different

culture, I had the same problem in Columbia, so I'm pretty

interested in this, I would try and teach my children during the

day, but at night when they went home, they went home to parents

who didn't know anything about studying, who were illiterate, and

who discouraged them from studying what I told them to read. And

I had a real problem there.

G: No we didn't, we did not do this.

S: This the parents encouraged their children, they really did.

G: These people were much grateful and wanted their children to

learn. They did everything to scarafice for learning, but they did

not retard them in anyway. In fact they were too forward with them.

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 2, 1974

Page 43

S: The only thing is that...

I: Too forward?

G: You know what I mean?

I: No.

G: Not too forward, that's the, I mean, the most cooperative

with the teachers, to try and help their children to become


S: But the only this is that they colonized, that's one thing

that until this last generation or so, they stuck to their own.

I: Is that what you meant by colonizing?

S: That's right, they stuck to their own. A Spanish had to marry

a Spanish, Italian had to marry Italian, and a Cuban had to marry

a Cuban, but in the next generation they got a little bit away and

the foreign children, which I call the, them foreign children of

foreign parents, they allowed them to haveVdate\ with American

boys and now they've merged, they can intermarry. But years ago

that was the worse offense for them, for their child to marry out

of their foreign people.

I: It's Jewish people to; I think.

S: Now today they converted and...

G: Did you say your father is Jewish?

I: My mother is Jewish.

G: Your mothers Jewish? Where did your mother come from?

I: Russia.

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 2, 1974

Page 44

G: Russia. And they married in the United States?

I: Um huh.

G: And what's your father?

I: I think he's an Italian-Catholic.

G: Italian-Catholic? And what's your mother become?

I: Ah--

G: Did she convert?

I: She almost converted my father. She never changed, in fact she's

raising my brother very strongly Jewish. I have a brother who's only


G: Your brother?

I: My brothers only thirteen, ---

I: Now, how did you prepare or organize the Chart Classes? I don't

even need this anymore cause--

G: You know the chart classes they came to public school, that's

what it was organized, they came to public school. They were of

age and they wanted to come to school to get an education like

anyone else would enter school.

I: No I mean--

S: Glara, it's ike a pre_

G: It's a prepremer. It's almost kindergarten, if you want to call

it that.

I: Well that I understand. My question is this: You were the person

who wrote the guide, I understand for the Chart Classes. A guide

that was used by the 19 teachers. I understand you used a book, or

Ybor City Typist: "argaret Lenkway
Aug. 5, 1974

Page 45

several books as reference.

S: He wants to know where you got your material...

I: Right.

S: ... from Glara, that's what it is. You just, you just ah, you


G: Most of it is just experience, one thing lead to the other.

I didn't go the only one was the night school that I

used a text book, but I didn't get it from any other text. Cause

he said someone was taking down notes from my articles there. But

it was just a matter of common sence.

S: See like after they came in they learned their mames and the parts

of the body, then they ah---

G: ---The objects of the room.

S: Then we started to say"Can you walk?" "Yes I can walk." "Can

you run?" "Yes I can run." Run. "Can you jumb?" "Yes I can

jumb." Jumb. And that's what we did all day with the children,

we thought them how to draw, we had recreation by singing, we had

everything pertaining to the

G: We also did teach a little reading.

S: Yeah.

G: Reading and writing, we did have. And we also had quite a number

of games.

S: By Chart.

G: Yeah everything was Chart.

I: By chart?

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 5, 1974

Page 46

G: You know those big charts?

I: Oh, oh.

G: We had A,B, C, and then we had a black board, and they used to

go ---

I: Where did those charts come, did the county provide those charts,


G: Yes, yes.

I: They were regular professional charts?

G: That's right. The alphabet, you know we had black boards and

slates, phoney cards, you know with phonetixs.

I: Yes, pronunciation.

G: Yes, pronunciation and ah, we had numbers--

S: We had a picture like a cat, and underneath was "CAT", a dog

underneath was "DOG". We hold it up and we say "What is this?"

they said "That is a dog." "What does a dog do?" "The dog can

bark." They they'll say bark, and then they'll bark. That's the

way we thought them.

G: And another thing is we used to get these cards, they used to

have--- What's the name of that ah---

S: Bradley, Vincent Bradley.

G: Bradley, sed to send off for those things.

I: Bradley, Vin_ ?

S: Bradley.

G: Milton Bradley.

I: Oh, Milton Bradley, ah, and what was it they sent you cards?

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 5, 1974

Page 47

What kind of cards?

S: You know--

G: Flash Cards.

S: Flash cards.

I: Oh, you mean like with numbers on them, or ah...

S: Yeah, animals on them.

G: They didn't send them to us, we- bought them. Like they

had a picture of house, then they had a picture of ah, rainstorm

and they had a picture of a fire, and underneath would be the word

written out.

S: ANd also they would have "Cat", "This is the cat." "This

is a big cat." "This cat is black and white." See, talking

all about the cat, meanwhile it became part of them and that

thought them how to read and write.

G: Then we had ah, we had a grocery store, a minuture grocery


I: Didn't the Board of Trade start that, at one point? Let me

explain this.

G: W hat Board of Trade? What do you mean?

I: There was thelTampa Board of Trade, now I'm not sure, but I

knowVsome year about 1915 or '16, or somewhere there, ah all of

the schools were introduced to the idea of the grocery store. I

read a newspaper article somewhere, I thought it was really

exciting where ---

G: No.


Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 5, 1974

Page 48

I: --- all the schools with these grocery store set-ups and the

Board of Trade was gonna' donate money or something---

G: No, cause we had--

S: We just had a miniature, we couldn't ---

G: We had miniature, we had a peddler, and the peddler had all

kinds of vegetables on the truck, and then we had a house and we

had all the bedroom, living room, dining, all the plastic--

S: I had a doll house. They didn't give us PA, we provided


G: And then I used to read magazines, and get all the pictures that

I could, and cut them out, make my own, we'd make our own charts.

And vegetables like carrots, and tomatoes I'd go to a seed catelog

and get those bright pictures, and make posters of them. See but

we did not have the opportunity---

Patt II, Side I

S: It was before that Glara, it couldn't have been before 1921,

cause the Chart classes didn't... What year was the ,;'r[ ?

G: I think it was before '21.

S: What was your outline? What year was yor outline?

G: Oh never

S Let me see, I can tell by your book.

G: Here it is__

S: THis is the good one, I wrote__

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 5, 1974

Page 49

G: You see this was the teachers outline, see each day what he

was supposed to teach, see here's the outline. This was January,

I don't know why I need this calander, may you could--

S: You didn't even put the year.

I: 1925.

G: This was.

S: '25 that's when I thought.

I: February 12, 1925, grade, Chart, School: :.M. Ybor; Teacher:

Glara Wohl.

G: You see each teacher came to me and we would discuss this, and

I'd give them the outline. They would get the outline. You see

when we thought school this is what we had to write-up every week.

We couldn't go into a classroom without having one of these sheets,

if you were in the first grade, second, third or forth, whatever

grade it was, you had to give this to the, every Friday you had to

give this to the teacher, to the superintendent.

S: See now, here's what she had to schedule, which maybe interesting

for you. THe daily schedule.

I: Um huh.

S: First the opening exercise. Conversation with you, that's what

they had the day before or the week before. Conversation advance,

what we were learning, the new ah, the new words for that day.

I: You have the times on there to. What is it every fifteen

minutes, it seems?

S: Yeah, and then---

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 5, 1974

Page 50

G: You want the hours?

I: Yes. If you want to read that. Wait a minute, let me ask you

one question. You say this was prepared every Friday, this would

be the Friday of the week before you were going to teach this?

G: That's right, the outline was for the following week.

I: And, let's say you would submit. this to Mr. Coleman, on

a Friday, and then he would give it back to you Monday morning,


G: Yeah, and then--

I: Ok. Now--

G: I think either it was Thursday, I don't remember--

I: But the week before?

S: You give it to him the week before?

G: Oh yeah, always before, we could never go to class with--

I: And, did all of the chart teachers, or the first grade, or

second grade, fill-out the same thing in their form?

G: Yes, yes.

S: Yes. And also this was a requirement when you were a school

teacher, at that time we were teaching, Chart. You had to form

an outline. THe first grade had their own, the second, third and

the forth. But no teacher could go into their classroom without

submitting their next weeks work.

I: Oh now, this is what I mean ah, your, the way you respond is

different from the way someone else would respond to this.In

other words the people didn't all teach the same thing at the

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug, 5, 1974

Page 51

same time, did they?

9S They did, of the Chart teachers, all thought the same time the

same thing.

G: Their schedule followed my schedule.

I: So for that week, for example whether your name was Glara Wohl, or--

G: Sara Justice, or John Brown, or Mary _---

I: --you were assigned right here Wednesday at openers, same same,

and down here one plus eleven equals, whatever it is...

G: Yeah.

I: Everybody.

G: Everybody in the 19 teachers would have the same schedule

everyday of the week.

I:: Ok, that's what I wanted to know.

S: They followed this outline, this is for the outline...

G: This is the outline for the week.

I: Now this would be a schedule for one day?

G: Daily.

G: This is daily, and this is a weekly, this is a Chart for weekly.

I: Ok, I ---

G: This is your guide, in fact it's your book, that you're

supposed to, like you're supposed to follow the guide.

I: And actually you helped to construct the guide?

G: This is the one that I planned.

I: For all the teachers?

G: For all the teachers. We all, ah 17 Charts that is?

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 5, 1974

Page 52

S: Yeah.

G: All followed the same outline.

I: Ok.

S: She was the supervisor.

G: I gave them the outline, I plannedit.

S: In the county she was the supervisor.

I: So everybody was supposed to be doing this?

G: This same thing.

I: Same day, same thing, same time.

S: That's right, and then occasionally we had demonstrations and

all the teachers would come to her classroom, or my classroom in

Ybor City School, and all these teachers would observe, to see

how we did it.

G: T en we'd go to their's and if there was something I liked about

them, than I would try to work on and improve on my way

of giving them the outline. See we learnt from each other, but

I was the one who gave them their --

I: But it together?

S: That's right, she put it together.

I: Ok, go ahead and read, then.

S: You want the times and everything.

I: Including the times.

S: Ok.

G: I don't even remember.

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 5, 1974

Page 53

S: Schedule for Americanization Class: Time:

9 to 9:15- Opening Prayer

S: You want the minutes?
I: No that's ok, because we can deduce it from there.

S: Ok.

S: 9:15 to 9:30- Conversation Review

9:30 to 9:45 Conversation Advance

9:45 to9:50- Recess

9:50 to 10:15 Nature Study

10:15 to 10:30 Memory Gem

10:30 to 10:40 Recess

10:40 to 10:50 Music

10:50 to 11:05 Commands Review

11:05 to 11:20 Commands Advance

11:20 to 11:30 Optional

11:30 to 11:35 Recess

11:35 to 11:50 English correlated with numbers

11:50 to 12:05 Sounds of letters

G: That's phone.

S: 12:05 to 12:15 English actions, reviewed.

12:15 to 12:30 English actions advanced.

12:30 to 1:00 Recess

1:00 to 1: 05 Dailyreport

1:05 to 1:15 Music

1:15 to 1: 25 Memory jam reviewed

1:25 to 1:30 Optional

1:30 to 2:00 Games

2:oo to 2:10 Preperation for dismissal.

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 5, 1974

page 54

I: Ok.

S: Now I'll go through one day reviewing what these mean.

I: That would be nice.

S: You see what I mean.

I: Ok.

G: Can you readit, which one did you take.

S: No, because I'm just going to go through one day.

9:00 to 9:15- Opening Exercise: roll call, prayer, songs and

salute the flag.

9:15 to 9:30 Conversation Review: Name the parts of the house.

A window, a room, a wall, roof,chimney, a floor, door, poarch,

and ceiling.

9:30 to 9:45 Conversation Advance: conversation of previous


9:45 to 9:50 Recess

9:50 to 10:15 Nature Study.

S: Let me see if I find something with Nature study.

I: Maybe another day.

S: I'm looking for another day, if I can find another day.

G: Nature study, I know I had it.

S: Here's Nature study.

G: What is this?

S: Here it is? What is this?

G: Here's Nature study

S: Here's a nature study.

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 5, 1976

page 55

S: Nature Study: "Kitty" what is this? "This is a Kitty."

"What do you see?" "I see a kitty."

I: Ok, what's happening during that 15 minutes of review?

G: We're reviewing.

S: So everyone in the classroom, each child says "What do you see?"

"I see a kitty."

I: Oh, --

S: "What is this?" "This is a kitty." So if you have 50 children-

in the room, the 50 children each one, one by one says it.

0: It's repettition My method was also repetition.

S: Now if the week before they had saw a dog, they say"What do

you see?" "I see a dog." "What is this?" "That is a dog."

Till the teacher was blue-in-the-face.

I: Ok.

S: Ok.

10:15 to 10:30 -Memory Jam, and that's like a diller, a dollar,

a 10'o'clock scholor, what makes you come so soon, you used to

come at 10'o'cdock, but now you come at noon.

I: And each student had to say that?

S: Say that, everyday you keep repeating it, repeating it, for a

whole week,>till they learn that jam.

G: It's repetition. There's a lot of repetion.

S: And then the recess we take them to the washroom.

10:40 to 10:50 the music is the nursery rhythm, like Mary had

a little lamb.

I: Oh, you sing a song.

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 6, 1974

Page 56

S: Mary had a little lamb, little lamb... you hear my voice singing

it. Here are the notes and here is the song, in back of each one

of them. Words, one little, two little, three little indians, four

little indians, five little-indians.

I: Would they each have to learn the song?

S: Yes, they have to learn, each, every child in the room by the

time they leave this classroom they'd know about two-thousand or

more words, and all the gems and everything,inursery rhythms and


G: Th1 )may only think, speak---

S: Oh, they can speak English beautifully. Now here's the music,

the teacher got a copy of the music...

I: And the words.

G: And the words.

I: Now how, how were the words communicated to the students? Did

the students have a copy? No they couldn't read.

S: No, by

I: By they had to keep saying it over and over till


S: One little, two little indians, three little indians, four

little indians, they'd sing that all the time.

G: They say everyday they learn a half of line, or quarter of a line...

I: Then by the end of the week...

G: ... by the end of the week they know it by heart.

I: Ok.

G: And they would keep on saying it, see all of them have

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 6, 1974

Page 57

on the back of them, see here they are.

S: And then they ah...

G: See the nursery rhythm, everyone of them has a nursery rhythm.

S: Now the 10;50 to 11:05...

G: All of them have it.

S: The 10:50 to 11:05 the commands. The commands is "I can

walk." Walk. "I can run." Run.

I: And again each person, or the whole class?

S::Each one individually. Till they all learn.

S: Then from 11:05 till 11:20 is the old commands that they

learned the week before, "I can jump." Then jump. "I can skip."

Skip. "I can whistle." Whistle. THat's all commands.

I: Ok.

S: Ok. THen from 11:20 to 11:30 is optional, if the children

are restless during the day, or something like that you let them

stretch, you let them put their heads on the desk, you let them

sleep, or you let them do anything they want for the ten minutes.

And then they have 11:30 to 11:50, 35, you take them out for

five minutes rest again. And then from 11:35 to 11:50-English

correlated with numbers, and here's that, like Lesson through

objects one and, one or two, one and, or two, one ah two, or

three. You say one girl and one girl are two girls; two girls

and two girls, er and one girl are three girls.

I: And each student repeats that.

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 6, 1974

Page 58

S: And then each one: one boy and one boy are two boys,

Then you go to the third thing and you say; one paper and one

are two papers, and the next day they have pencil, one pencil and

one pencil are two pencils. At the end of the week they know

about a girl, about a boy, about a paper, and about a pencil, and

they review it all on Friday. They learned only through three

that week.

I: How did you, ah one thing there, how did you determine each

time period? Did you have a clock in the room?

G: Everybody has a watch in their hand. Every teacher watches

with the clock on her hand.

S: We had watches; we wore watches. And then 11:50 to 12:05 was

sounds of the letters. We started with the letter "A" says "ah",

"B" says "bab", then-a "C" says "Ce".

G: Sound of the letter. We didn't teach it we

spelled it phenetically.

I: You didn't teach what?

G: We thought it phenecially.

I: You used another word there... syslly?

G: Did I say sys, what.

S: She said sound.

G: She said sound, but we said it phnetically.

I: Oh, what is the difference between by sounds and by phenetics?

Was there a difference?

G: No it was pronounceation, more than anything else.

S: Phectically is how it sounded

Ybor City T pist: Margaret Lenkway
"Aug. 6, 1974

Page 59

Portion is unintelligable as they are all talking at the same time.

G: Well phonetics it was different by sound, we what do you call


S: That's the way we thought it, Glara, by showing them the letter,

A is "A","B" is "B", "ba" you say"B" ,"C" is "C", "D" is "de".

G: No-we didn't teach it that way.

S: So we just said A,B,C, that's phonetically.

G: No we didn't teach that way, I remember.

S: Yeah, we used to put up that sound and it said"A*, "What is this?"

"This is A." "A" stands for apple. "B" "B, what is B?" B, stands

for boy." That's the way you did it. You don't remember.

G: Yes, I remember.

S: Then ah, let's see what your English actions was...

G: That is sound.

I: Yes it is, but I thought you had detected a different thing


S: Now', here's English Actions, is...

I: What time is that now?

S: English Actions from 12:05 to 12:15. Is English actions

review, and it is, the actions is, introduce past tense, continue

progressive and present tenses. The first day you say, "I can

run." Then you say, "You can run." '"e can run." "She can

run." "We can run." And "They can run." You take one child and

the "I can run." You take two, "We can run." You take three,

"They can run." And you take four, "We can run." See all of them.

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 6, 1974

Page 60

So that gives the progressive tense of the verbs, then the verbs

in the present tense and the past tense.

G: The present and the past. You know you can't tell them about


I: That's very good, I really like that.You almost had me doing it


S: 12:15 to 12:30 English actions is reviewed what they have learned

previously. You review it, you constantly have to review it, because

4&6children might forget.

G: It becomes part of you to continuously, repetion...

S: From 12:30 till 1:00 we take them outside and they sit

under the trees and they eat there lunches, till 1:00. Then 1:00

to 1:05 is the dailyreport that the teacher has to send into the

principal, how many children are present and how many children are


I: What happens during that five minutes?

S:: They just sit quiet.

G: They sit quiet.

I: What is the teacher doing?

S: Tle teacher writes a report, it has to goto the principals


I: It's attendance?

S: That's right it's attendance, that's what it is. Then 1:05 till

1:15 is music, which is mostly the ...

G: Nursery rhythms.

I: Nursery rhythms.

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkltay
Aug. 6, 1974

Page 61

I: Did you keep the children alphabetically, or someway to help...

G: No.

I: How could you take attendance with sixty children?

G: Very easily, we called the role every morning.

I: Oh.

G: We had a roll call every morning.

S: Then from 1:15 to 1:25 they learned a memory jam, a nurcery

rhythm. Then 1:25 till 1:30...

I: Does it say anything there about that?

S: Yeah.

G: A nurcery rhythm.

S: Yeah, for this one, this one is ah...

G: Which one is that one?

S: The diller a dollar.

G: The next page may have one, look on the back of it too, it's

also written on.

S: This is the game. Memory jam is a nurcery rhythm that one was

a "Diller a Dollar,* that was a memory jam.

G: Look on the back of thispne, and give him\ one of those.

S: There's one her called the memory jam: I love the name of

Washington, I love my country to, I love the flag, the dear ol'

flag, the red, the white and the blue.

I: Ok.

S: So that's one of them.

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 6, 1974

Page 62

S: And then from 1:25 to 1:30 you just let them rest, actually

you can do what ever you want to do, if you want to sing, what

ever you want to do.

I: Did they, I don't understand that.

S: Yeah they sing, the children, the teacher has a pitch

and she blows it...

G: but during the week we

thought our own.

S: Then from 1:30 till 2:00 it's a game which we play in the room.

I: How does this go?

S: And the game is like this: There is mulberry bush.

I: And you played in the room?

S: Yeah you play in the room.

I: Was there any room to play in the room?

S: Once a week, once a week, yes we had classrooms...

I: With sixty chairs?

S: Now once a week we used to take them out in the yard and play.

G: ii we had an auditorium to.

S: But in the room we used to let the children, a few at the time

get in the front.

G: And we had phonograph records, to.

S: We had phonograph records.

G: We had a phonograph record in our classroom, just a small one

you know.

I: You mean a phonograph?

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 6, 1974

Page 63

G: And the records the kids loved so much, the one we had I never

will forget it it was an Indian Call.

S: Indian Call?

G: Indian Love Call.

I: Oh.

G: Indian Call. And it used to have a line, you know how the

Indians "Wa wa wa wa" you know,every week we'd say "What you want

us to play?" "I want the Indian Song." They just loved that.

S: And then at 2:00 to 2:10, we'd tell them, now our day is over,

over is our play, let us all good children, say good-bye today.

Good-bye little children, going to our home. Good-bye dear teacher,

see you in the morning.

I: They memorized it.

S: We used to sing it,>ye used to sing it, and then we'd take them

out to the corner andvwatch' them cross over the street, and most of

the parents would be waiting and that's it.

I: One thing, and you really sorta' rapped it up, um that's very


S: Got there some information?
I: Really walked into it this time.

S: Interesting isn't it?

I: It brings back memories of my elementary days. We did a lot of

the same things.

G: I still have patience, I love children.

S: Yodre so young, you don't even remember this. You weren't

even born y.

I: Oh, not that but my own time I'm talking about. Back in the

XDor u'-y iyplsu: margaret LenKway
Aug. 7, 1974

Page 6y

late forties. I can remember...

G: How old are you?

I: 30 years old.

G: You've been through plenty in thirty years.

I: Yeah.

S: Got a good education.

I: Even got married.

S: How long are you married?

I: Over two years. I got married, I tried to get married late.

S: But what are you doing for a living?

I: For a living? Well I'm on Fellowship myself,

S: Or you're on a fellowship?

I: Right.

G: And what does your wife do?

I: My wife is a director of a Mentally Retarded Program.

S: Oh that's wonderful.

G: Where at Gainesville?

I: In Gainesville.

G: Oh, that's nice. And so she has a nice education to.

I: She does. She's very independent and she insisted on keeping


G: I don't blame her.

I: And I think that's great.

G: I don't blame her.

I: And of course I insisted on keeping mine. I said if we get

married fine, but I'm going to finish my degree, I'm not gonna' go

Ybor City Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 7, 1974

Page d

out and work just because we're married, and that's what I've done.

G: Well listen, together you know what you're doing.

I: I have one question to clarify this thing. There's a lot

of detail in this, a lot of detail, how did all the teachers

know what to do with these forms? I know you had the plan.

S: Once a week they came together to her classroom, we all sat

there, cause I happened to be one of them, and we sat there and

we wrote down everything she told us. And she says now this week

I want you to do so and so. We're gonna' teach the progressive tense

of this word, we're going to start with the present, like run, then

the past, "I can run." You see...

I: I see.

S: ... then she, then she correlated, and teach us exactly what

we're supposed to do the next week.

G: What we are supposed to do next week, we reviewed it when they

got the outline.

S: We studied this outline a week in advance. When we went into

our classrooms Monday morning, believe me we knew what we were

going to do the whole week.

I: And you yourself got these ideas partly from books, partly from

common sense...

G: That's right.

I: ... partly from past experience.

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 7, 1974


G: One thing lead to the other. Just like you, you're education

one links together with the other.

I: And where did you, ah, who did you confer within these...

G: The principal.

I: ... did you talk...

G: Yes, the principal.

I: Crow. Mr. Crow.

G: Mr. Crow, yeah. And Mr. COleman, we couldn't teach anything


I: And I that since this only started in 1921, what did you teach

besides the besides the uh, chart class? In 1915, I can't remember


G: In 1915 I thought out in East Tampa.

I: East Tampa. But when you went to Ybor...

G: Primary.

G: Ybor I can't...

S: We started in Chart..

I: That means you started very early. As early as 1916.

G: It must have started, I think I thought first grade, I thought

first grade.

I: At Ybor?

G: In Ybor.7 I thought first, and I think, did I teach second here?

I believe I did...

4iA: And I thought the first through the second.

S5/ I think I thought first and second. But when I actually thought

school I thought Chart/

Ybor CIty Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 7, 1974

Page 67

S: I think I had first, second and third. C

G: But not going through the whole years. Bht I had first and second,

of course I also...

S: You always said second was a hard class.

G:: The second grade was the easiest one.

S: The third was the one, third was the one you always said was...

G: And I said, well third, yes. Third we started, cause we had

to start a little bit of, history was hard for the child. But I

really thought first, second and third. But not, my whole heart and

sole work was the Chart. The pre, well we call it Chart, but if

you read the article it's a misnomer. It isn't really Chart, you

know, we put it as chart.

I: But it's Americanization...

G: It's really teaching English to Foreigners.

S: It is.

I: Most specifically that's what it is.

G: As I told you again it's a misnomer.

S: Cause when they first came they didn't know a word of English,

when they left they had a vocabulary of about 2,000 words.

G: Even more than that.

S: Or even more. They can go out in the world.

I: Why were you selected to supervise this, why you in particular?

For the whole county, I mean that's quite a distinction...

G: I don't know...

I: Why did you get it?

G: I can't answer that.

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway

Aug. 7, 1974

Page 4

S: I can talk for her, I can talk for her, see my sister haas

sincerity in showing that she was interested in it.

G: I was very interested in it.

S: I think that's why she was selected.

I: People knew that you had a...

S: Her principal discovered this...

I: Mr. Crow?

G: It was Mr. Crow, really discovered, her knew my interests that

I was taking, and his observations.

S: And then he was one who knew she was born and raised in Ybor

City, and would know what they needed.

I: And he had an interest County wide...

G: That's right.

I: seems that he could probably influence other people to

say, "well Miss Wohl has good experience why don't we let her


G: Oh yes.

S: Then Mr. Coleman Mr. Coleman was the one

that was very much interested in Glara.

G: He came out, you see he was our Elementary Supervisor, and he

was what I was doing, and so when Crow gave up he encouraged me,

they, both of them encouraged me, in every way I had their support,

but I did nothing without them seeing the outline, and knowing

what I'm doing. But they used to visit so often that I...

S: See they had to sign it, C. Coleman, W.C. Coleman. See the

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 7, 1974

Page 6f

principal he signed it.

I: Yeah I

G: They had to sign it_

I: Why did you say third grade was the hardest to teach?

G: Why did I say thirdkecause you introduced the textbook of

nature studies and history, and that was the beginning of the childs


I: In the third grade?

G: In the third, starting History, see that was the reason. Now

I don't know what they do today, whether they start them younger,

or not. Do they

I: I don't know. I'm not familiar with elementary school today.

S: Who did you interview in Tampa besides, ah,

and my sister, Liz Burger? She thought so far back, that really

she didn't have anything to do...

G: SHe didn't have anything...

S: ... she just thought six and a half years. Are you going to

interview any body else?

I: I'm gonna' try to in about a week. I'm going to try to interview

some Latin people who went there as students, and see how they felt about


S: Who, who\Ie yu have.

I: I don't know I'm going to try and contact the census...

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 7, 1974

Page l

S: Oh, you could get Mrs. um, Miss Angela

I: Now wait a minute I may...

G: She didn't attend school.

S: Well who...

I: She was a teacher.

G: See he doesn't want a teacher, he wants someone that attended

that school.

I: You attended the school to?

G: I attended the school.

I: Did you go to Ybor, or did you got to...

S: I went to the Ybor school from the first to the third grade,

then we moved to the Heights. So when I went and moved to the

Heights, I went to the Robert E. Lee School, which was an

American school.

I: What was it like going to Ybor?

G: Huh?

I: What was it like going to Ybor?

G: Oh, it was great fun, all my pals, that's where I learned how

to speak Spanish. All my friends were Spanish children. I said

I went to Ybor, cause who'd I go with, Dr. _...

(.y: Those were Ybor City ...

5: ------------- never did anything, they

didn't have Ybor City Schools, when we went. They had Ybor City

when I went with Isabel and Charles...

I: But they didn't have it when you went?

S: No.

I: When did...

.-.Ly k- L. *L-J. t .. U I j-i- w ay
Aug. 7, 1974

Page 9

S: you went

to the W.D. Henderson, all of you all.

I: When did they...

S: Where did you go to

G: I:know, I think to Ybor School I went with

Dr. Ga ...

&.": Well where did I meet all those Latin people?

5k: You went to W.D. Henderson.

G: All those people...

S: And then from W.D. Henderson,.you went to Hillsborough, with

all of them.

I: They did all go to Hillsborough, that's true.

G: Oh yeah, then Hillsborough, we did all graduate from Hillsborough.

S: See I went to the Ybor City school I started out, I didn't start

out in Chart, cause I knew English, but I started out in the first

grade there, and I went from the first through- the third. And

some of my life-long friendsare some of them that I made an

aquatence with at school. A)d one of my dearest friends is a nun

in New York...

I: What's her..

S: ... my classmate is a nun in New York.

I: What's her name?

S: Fernandez.

I: Now are we thinking of Sister

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
AUg: 7, 1974

Page 7,lJ

S: Sister who?

I: _

S: I don't know her. But Sister, she's Marie

Fernandaz. And she and I started Ybor City School together, and

we've kept together all of our lives, I write her and she writes

me, in New York. And ah, all of my playmates were Spanish. All

our neighbors were Spanish. My father had a store that I had to

speak Spanish, so we were all through our lives we went through with

the Latin element. It was very interesting.


S: beautiful, really beautiful.

I: Was the school very big in those days when you went? I

think it was about...

S: Well when I went to the, when I went to the school they didn't

have the brick building, they had, when I first started out it was

a wooden a wooden building. They had little wooden houses, and

then after that they build the building that they have today in the

front of the Ybor City School.

G: That's where I went.

S: And the front room in the front is where I started school in

G: And your next step was what?

I: My next step?

G: Yeah, who you going to interview now? So maybe we can help

you with some names.

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 8, 1974

Page 72

I: Um let me think.

S: If you want us to.

I: Um, the only two people that I have in mind is Mrs.

Angle and her sister Evylyn_

S: Yeah...

I: And that's it.

G: That, they went to, they thought school with us. They thought

school with us, to.

S: And Evylyn, Evylyn or Angle went to school with me, High School,

we went to school together. They know us all our lives.

I: Not elementary school?

S: Not what?

I: They went to different elementary schools though, I guess.

S: No, I know they went, they graduated high school with us.

And then ah...

Part:where all are again talking at the same time.

S: They really come from an aristocratic family. Yeah, very


I: But she still was a teacher most of her life.

S: Yeah.

I: Aristocratic family or not.

S: Yeah she...

G: Oh she's a lovely...

S: ...she moved to Cuba and then she came back to Tampa.

G: Very fine people.

S: Nice people.

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lwnkway
Aug. 8, 1974

page 7f

G: They're all nice people. I have nothing against any of them.

S: But ah, I mean the Ybor City of today is not the Ybor City of


G: No, No.

S: That was the good ol' days.

G: You see we were very small, and we knew each other and just like

our city we've grown...

S: Like the ah...

G: ...we don't know, I don't know 9/10th of the people in Tampa.

S: Just like the ah, club houses you know they each have they,

the Cubans have theirs, the Cuban Club,the Center

Center Esponal, the Italian Club, so on Sundays the clubs used to

have ah, they call them they used to have like

a piaia In the olden days, I forgot~tell you how they used to

pick up, they had a high stage and underneath the stage was a pit

and the fellow, you know who had the whole play in front of him and he

would be the what you call the fellow that ah, directed...

I: Director.

S: ...director,and he would be down there in the pit and if they got

the wrong key or they didn't remember where to start he would scream

up there to tell them. It was fun, it really was fun in those days.

Because, I don't know, it was just like one little city.

I: Can you tell me one thing, you mentioned that Ybor School wasn't

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 8, 1974

Page 7<

there when your sister was...

G: Yes, oh yes it was there.

I: It was there. I'm trying to find out when did Ybor School first


G: Oh that I can't tell you.

S: I know it was Ybor School when I started out.

I: It was a wooden frame building when you first started?

S: Yeah.

I: And you first started...

5q: My sister thought there, my sister Liz Burger, Did she tell you

when she started teaching?

I: Ah, yes...

5': 19--

I: I'm trying to remember, I think it was...

': ---13, 12 or 13.

I: 1912 till 1918.

c'A: So I started...

I: Six years.

S: ...I started there, that school was there already.

G: I was in High School when she was there.

I: The wooden school?

S: Yeah.

I: When did the first brick building appear?

S: Evidently, it must have been about 1913 or '14.

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 8, 1974

Page 7%)

I: And when did the second brick building appear?

S: That appeared in at least...

G: No, the second was there and was what we thought school. It was

I tought...

S: It was built right after us...

G: So it must have been about 1922.

S: It was about 1600 students...

G: About 1922.

S: Yeah, about 1922.

I: So there were no;-brick buildings there before 1915?

S: No...

I: The first one was built...

S: All frames.

I: All frames till 1915. And they built one ...

G: There was only one building.

S: There was one little wooden building, and they left it, that's

in the back. And then they build the brick one in the front, and then

after that they tore the other one and then they combined by making a

patio and then they made the new building.

G: The big one was bigger...

S: See that's the whole block.

I: You just answered an important question for me.

G: The first building was only eight rooms. Four up and four down, that's


S: That's right.

G: And they other one was quite ah

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 8, 1974

Page 7

I: I understand they had a basement?

G: Oh yes.

I: Second one.

B: That's where I thought. I helped organize the cafeteria there in

the basement, at the time that I was there. That was about 1924.

6: We had a janitor there that was there for so many years...

I: I interviewed him.

S: He was the one who had this stump leg, the janitor had this.

The janitor had a wooden leg.

I: WAS HE a Cuban fellow?

S: No, no he was an American fellow.

I: Oh, cause there was a Cuban fellow who thought at I think he

was a janitor at one of the schools, his name was

S: I don't know him.

G: I don't know him.

I: I didn't find that out until after...

G: What was his name, we knew him

for so many years.

S: Scott.

G: Scott, yes, Scott.

S: No, Scott was the colored fellow, that came after him, or joined

him or something.

G: He was a white man that had the peg leg.

S: Yeah, Scott was the colored one.

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 8, 1974

Page 7f

S: We had a white janitor oh for years and years and years.

G: yeah he was the one who has the peg leg.

S: Not Mr. Coleman, Mr. Coleman limped, but he didn't have a peg,

a wood, a wooden leg.

G: I wish my memory was the way it, and I was interested the way I was

at that time, I look at this now and think to myself how in the world

did I ever do that. It's unbelievable.

I: You know what you ought to do, you ought to have a copy of that

ledger made and donate it to the Tampa Public Library, the copy or

something. The Tampa library is very interested in collecting this

kind of material.

G: No kidding.

I: I would really, you know I was afraid to ask you, but I will tell

you that that is very important. I'm ...

G: I started to tear it up about a week ago.

I: Oh no.

G: No kidding,now the one, the article that I wrote up, I just tore the

tablet up a couple of weeks ago, I had it in this box here.

I: The article that you wrote, you tore up.

G: The article that was published in the paper. I wanted to prove that

I wrote that article, so I kept it and had it type written and then

sent it into the paper, which they asked me, see. They didn't

interview me, they answered me. But I wrote that article by hand.

It was a whole tablet, and the, and ah, the card board was yellow.

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 8, 1974


S: She doesn't believe in keeping things, she likes to tear them up.

G: I mean I keep them and then you know...

S: Before I know it she throws it away.

I: Well, this right here was very familiar to me because this was

exactly what Beauhalt used back in 18, I think 1887, and he remember

he had the first teacher institutes.

G: Beauhalt's? Yeah the principal.

I: Well his first one was out in Brookline, I think or Brook


G: Brooksville.

I: Brooksville. And he's got his complete lesson plans.

G: He has?

I: ForIteachers, and you know that, we accidentally found that, about...

G: tR-e they take as it is?

I: What this?

G: Yeah.

I: Well I would want you, you should keep that yourself...

G: Well what am I going to do,-I'm (, \

I: True.

G: All right. Whom I going to, I have nobody, no children.

I: It'll end up disappearing anyway, and it's just gonna', you know.

G: You take...

S: Would you think the public library would want it as it, or they would

want it in ah...

I: Well for them it's no problem becuase they have a machine there that

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 8, 1974

Page f

will copy it in about five minutes.

S: They do. And they would want a copy of it, you think?

I: Yes.

G: Who do you contact there.

I: Um, Joe Hip, I think his name is Joe Hip.

S: And you think they really would actually, and her outlines to.

I: All of this material is so incredibly important, we have, I've

got, let me back up...

S: I don't think you've gone to anyone in Tampa who has material

like my sister.

I: No, I mean this is...

S: I mean this is really a big help to you.

I: ... for me especially, for my thing, but for Tallahassee. See I know

people all over the state now, because I have spent like two months

ramsacking the state for material, and there's nothing, you know

just nothing .

S: So this is wonderful for you.

I: For me that's wonderful.

G: Now you see I didn't compose

these notes.

S: She took it out of, she has -book there, the song book.

G: I had a song book that I coppied, and see here the words, I didn't

write those words,see that's why the article says it was second. But the

actually, actual planning, I planned it.

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 8, 1974

Page 9-- \

S: The famous Glara Wohl. My sisters very modest, I have to say so


I: back there.

S: back here now.

I: There's one more little, not that, I saw a slip

of paper there, it looks like it was typed on, I'm not sure. There.

G: What's that.

I: Lost yesterday somewhere between Sunrise, oh I think it's another

lesson plan.

G: Is it?

I: Yeah.

S: See Chart A is when they started the first class...

@: See Chart A was four months, Chart B was_


S: Got that.

I: Yeah..

S: Ok, Chart B, Chart A.

I: Chart A was...

G: For the first four months of the year

S: I think you took Chart B.

G: I thought Chart A and then Chart B.

I: Then Chart B would be January through about March, er Aprill.

G: No, it'd be September till January, and then February through May.

S: You see we used to go to school in May, we didn't go through the

month of June.

G: And then during the May festival, you know during May Festival

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 8

Page *

we used to have big doings in the school. All the parents used to come,

it was outdoors, and the teachers would sew all the costumes and

everything for the whole classes, and we used to go out there, and we

had a Maypole and we had the children singing, and they were all

dressed in costumes, some were dressed like vegetables, some were

dressed like flower s, andthey would sing the song according to what

S: I'll tell you the truth, I shouldn't say this but teachers were

teachers in those days...

I: It sounds like, I was amazed at this.

S: And I'll never forget as long as I live, Mayday. We had the most

beautiful costumes made out of crapepaper.

I: Costumes of what?

G: For children. Like a vegetable, like one would be a pupkin. We

made the pupkin head, then we made the dress out of orange. Or if

it was an Indian, we'd make the Indian cap, and the whole class would

go out singing the Little Indian Song, one little, two little, three

little indians, they would all be dressed with the Indians and they'd

have a piece pipe in their hands, and they'd come out and sing and


I: Were the parents there?

S: And all the parents came to the festival.

G: So that year we all dressed the children beautifully and just

when we took them out, it started to rain. And all the costumes that

we worked on for months, were ruined. I'll never forget that.

Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 9, 1974

Page 83

I: I heard Holloween often ended up that way to.

S: Oh yes.

I: It likes to rain on Holloween.

S: But it, in teaching days it was very interesting.

G: Oh it was wonderful, I enjoyed it, and I lived to teach, and

I loved every minute of it.

S: SEe I just stayed in two years, then I into the business world,

into our place of business. But ah, I thought Sunday School and

I'm always with children.

G: And now we give all our time to the outside, she just went back

to business because my brother broke his, had a collision...

S: Now that we're back we've been doing Social Work.

G: We go over to St. Joseph Hospital, we're Pink Ladies there

and I belong to Tampa Jewish Social Services. We did U.S.O. work,

American Red Cross and all those things.

S: During the Second World War I was a Four General in the

United States Army, by selling the most bonds for the Governor of

the State of Florida. And ah, we did canteen service, we used to

go out to the fields and serve the boys and entertain them. And

than we were hostesses at the U.S.O. once a week, at the dances.

And I knitted and all the boys sweaters, and all that stuff. And

we've done all that kind of work, all the time, and always loved

it. We just love to give our time to