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SAMUEL PROCTOR ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM at
the University of Florida
AWO aL .4. o
TELL THE STORY
(Ms. Stephanie Wanza): This is Stephanie Wanza and I will be
interviewing Ms. Dorothy McKellar, I am in her home. Today's date
is August 4, 1997. Okay Ms. McKellar, I going to start asking you
a few questions regarding your family life.
(Mrs. Dorothy McKellar): Yes.
(Ms. Wanza): Okay and then I'm going to ask you some
questions regarding employment, the Overtown neighborhood, 1-95,
Metro-rail and the future of Overtown and also some other
questions. We'll start out with the family life. Where were your
parents born?
(Mrs. McKellar): My parents were born in the Bahamas, Harbor
Island is the name of the place.
(Ms. Wanza): Did they ever live in Overtown?
(Mrs. McKellar): Oh yes. They left Harbor Island, I'm not
too sure what year and went to Key West and I know that they were
there like 1900 because I have a brother, older brother who was
born in Key West and a sister who was born in Key West; Dr. S.H.
Johnson was the brother and Mrs. Elaine Adderly, the sister, those
two were born in Key West. Then they came to Miami in 1903 and I'm
not too sure where they lived, somewhere near where the Lyric
Theater is now and then from there they moved to a place called 124
Florida Avenue near Tenth Street.
(Ms. Wanza): So what are the years that they lived in
Overtown?
(Mrs. McKellar): What are the years?
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(Mrs. Wanza): Yes.
(Mrs. McKellar): You know I really don't know.
(Mrs. Wanza): What sort of jobs did they have?
(Mrs. McKellar): My mother worked, she washed dishes, she did
some of everything, washed clothes and what not on Miami Beach and
she also had a little kindergarten at her house and ah...for the
neighborhood children. Our father was an insurance agent, I don't
know the number of years.
(Ms. Wanza): Where were you grandparents born?
(Mrs. McKellar): As far as I know, they were born in the
Bahamas.
(Ms. Wanza): Did they live in Overtown?
(Mrs. McKellar): Yes they lived in Overtown for a while, they
came to Miami, both.
(Ms. Wanza): Okay, what sought of jobs did they have?
(Mrs. McKellar): No. They did not work at all because they
were elderly persons.
(Ms. Wanza): Okay, when they came, okay. Can you describe
what it was like growing up in your parents household?
(Mrs. McKellar): I'll do the best that I can. There were 7
children in the family plus mother and father and at one an aunt
who was our mother's sister. She came from the Bahamas to help
with the 7 children because we were all very small. You said
something about the household. We've always gotten along, you
know, not like some people, fuss all the time. You didn't do that
and when we would go to school and come back, our mother in
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particular would ask us about some of things that went on in school
and ah...(laughter).
(Ms. Wanza): Okay, the next set of questions are regarding
employment from 1945 to 1970 but for you it would be between 1945
and 1948 because you left in '48 right?
(Mrs. McKellar): Yes.
(Ms. Wanza): Okay. Describe the jobs that you had.
(Mrs. McKellar): Many jobs that I had but at that particular
time in the 40's around '42, I was at Carver...ah in Coconut Grove
teaching physical education but I asked for a transfer because of
our mother's illness and the approaching birth of my daughter.
Then I...well I worked a lot of places. From Carver I came out
here to Floral Heights...with, no, no then to Phyllis Wheatley and
from Phyllis Wheatley, from Floral Heights (laughter) to Liberty
City, from Liberty City to the school on 46th Street, what the name
of that, I've forgotten the name of it.
(Ms. Wanza): Elementary school?
(Mrs. McKellar): Yes, it's elementary and at that particular
time, the principal was Mr. George Balker and I was P.E. there but
I was kind of tired, getting tired of being in the yard so long and
I asked, in fact, I...well I saw on the bulletin board where they
were about to have Head Start and I thought that I would go into
something like that so I was trained in Head Start and from...where
is that...I forgot now on 46th Street I went to Drew Elementary
with Mrs. Ford and it was at that school I retired in 1970 because
of illness.
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(Ms. Wanza): What were those jobs but you just answered that
and what years did you have those jobs and you answered that too.
(Mrs. McKellar): Did I have what?
(Ms. Wanza): What years did you have the jobs?
(Mrs. McKellar): Well I started working at Carver in Coconut
Grove in 1934 and I stayed there until 1941 or '42. I don't know
how long I stayed at the others.
(Ms. Wanza): Okay. What kind of hours did you work?
(Mrs. McKellar): What kind of hours? Hum!
(Ms. Wanza): Yeah.
(Mrs. McKellar): From I would say 8:30 to 3:00 or 3:30,
that's a long time ago.
(Ms. Wanza): When and why did you leave these jobs.
(Mrs. McKellar): I left Drew Elementary because that was the
last place where I worked. I was on a sabbatical leave and I was
taking courses at the junior college and several times...oh I was
taking typing upstairs and several times or twice I fell coming
down the stairs and when I went to the doctor...I didn't go the
first time but the second time I fell I went to the doctor and he
told me that I had diabetes. He checked me out and he said, well
if I were you, and I want you to take care of yourself, I would
retire. So I retired in '70.
(Ms. Wanza): And the next one is how did you find work?
(Mrs. McKellar): How did I find work?
(Ms. Wanza): Yes.
(Mrs. McKellar): After I finished college at Florida A&M...I
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don't know but I don't know who recommend Mrs. Tucker but she was
my first principal. I don't recall.
(Ms. Wanza): Where did the other members of your family work.
(Mrs. McKellar): Laughter. As I said, there was 7 of others
and 5 of us are alive now. All of us have been teachers during our
lifetime and we've all worked at different places. I had a brother
and a sister who went to Booker T. and a sister who at one time was
a principal I think in Perrine or something like that and a brother
taught and then later became a principal somewhere in the southwest
section, a brother, X-ray specialist and he taught at Booker T. for
awhile and...how many is that...I'm leaving myself out...I'm
talking about...laughter.
(Ms. Wanza): Where did the other members of your family work.
(Mrs. McKellar): work...
(Ms. Wanza): So basically they were teachers.
(Mrs. McKellar): Yeah, they were all teachers and a brother
who is next to me also taught at Booker T., science and, of course,
I taught for 30 some odd years.
(Ms. Wanza): Beginning in the late 50's many immigrants moved
to Miami from the Caribbean including Cuba, Haiti and other
countries. Did those immigrants compete with Overtown residents
for jobs?
(Mrs. McKellar): While we were Overtown, I would say in the
late 30's or 40's, immigrants came from I know the Bahamas and they
lived across the street from where we were and I understand that
they worked because of cheap labor and they would go...a group
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would go and another would come back, you know transfer like that.
(Ms. Wanza): Do you recall people moving into the area from
out of town?
(Mrs. McKellar): Do I what?
(Ms. Wanza): do you recall people moving into Overtown from
out of town?
(Mrs. McKellar): From out of town?
(Ms. Wanza): Um hum.
(Mrs. McKellar): Not too often.
(Ms. Wanza): The few people, do you know where they were
from, the few people that came?
(Mrs. McKellar): No.
(Ms. Wanza) : We're going to move on to the next section which
is regarding neighborhood life between 1945 and 1970.
(Ms. Wanza): Okay Ms. McKellar could you describe your place
of residence?
(Mrs. McKellar): Overtown?
(Ms. Wanza): Yes, in Overtown.
(Mrs. McKellar): As far as I can remember, I was born
on...lets see, 124 Florida Avenue, it was called at that particular
time and ah...I remember two bedrooms, a living room, a bathroom a
den for the boys, a dinning room and a kitchen and a porch...a
front porch was on the front there was a porch with a swing.
(Ms. Wanza): Who lived in your household?
(Mrs. McKellar): Well now are you speaking of us as children
or as adults?
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(Ms. Wanza): Probably adults, well both, both.
(Mrs. McKellar): As far as I can remember, I know our older
brother went to Florida Memorial in St. Augustine at a very early
age like maybe he was...like he was 6th grade or something like
that and ah...we talking about my...
(Ms. Wanza) : Okay between 1945 and 1948 what was your
household like, who lived in your household?
(Mrs. McKellar): Oh yeah, you said who lived in the house.
Well there were 6 children as far as I can remember, mother and
father and aunt.
(Ms. Wanza): Okay, this is your parents' house and you stayed
in your parents house from '45 '48?
(Mrs. McKellar): No. We moved from 124 Florida Avenue and it
was...had an addition to the house and it was turned around some
kind of way and it was 1004 First Court and I'm not too sure what
year it was but later our parents built another house in the same
yard and it was 159 Northwest Tenth Street. That's where we moved
from. Then there was a little office that my brother had on that
same ground.
(Ms. Wanza): Who were your neighbors?
(Mrs. McKellar): Who were our neighbors? We had oh the
Rogers, what do you want me to call names? I couldn't do that too
well. The Rogers...ah I don't remember.
(Ms. Wanza): You don't remember. Okay, could you describe
the street where you lived?
(Mrs. McKellar): Yes I can describe ...For a long time it was
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sand and then later paved and we had a sidewalk in front of our
house because we use to play jackstones at night and things like
that and some Saturday nights our mother would tell us to go and
take our bath early and we had to bathe in a tin tub at that time
and because the Klu Klux Klan would march down Tenth Street, they
would come from across the railroad down Tenth Street, I know
Second Avenue and I don't know where they would go from there, all
with hoods.
(Ms. Wanza): Where did your neighbors work?
(Mrs. McKellar): Where did they work?
(Ms. Wanza): Yes.
(Mrs. McKellar): Now Mr. Rogers worked at Swift, I don't know
what you would call it but they would have sausages and things of
that sort and they would ship places and there was Myrtle...I've
forgotten her name but she did laundry work and her grandmother
also worked at the laundry where the Chinamen were there on
Tenth...on Second Avenue, not too far from my home. I'm not too
sure about the other people but across the street, yes, was Mr. Sam
Donovay and he worked on the railroad and then he had a sister-in-
law who lived next door, Georgia Campbell and she had a rooming
house and then there was the Dorsey Hotel right on the corner.
(Ms. Wanza): What happened to those neighbors?
(Mrs. McKellar): Well most of them moved from Overtown, some
of them here and some out of town, where I don't know.
(Ms. Wanza): When did they leave?
(Mrs. McKellar): When? I know Georgia Campbell came out here
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just before we came so she came in the late 30's or 40's and I
don't know about the other people%
(Ms. Wanza): Where did they go?
(Mrs. McKellar): I really don't know.
(Ms. Wanza): Can you describe the main business areas you
went to in Overtown? The main business areas you went to in
Overtown?
(Mrs. McKellar): You mean in Colored Town?
(Ms. Wanza): Yes.
(Mrs. McKellar): Well the main street was Second Avenue and
I think it's still Second Avenue now. In that era we had Baker
hairdresser, there was a bank sometime ago, grocery stores,
drugstores, you name it we had it.
(Ms. Wanza): Could you describe where your family brought
groceries?
(Mrs. McKellar): Our family brought groceries
from...sometimes from the...I can't think of the store...I can't
think of the place...some kind of "Top" on Seventh Street...was it
Seventh or Sixth Street but that was...I don't remember.
(Ms. Wanza): Could you describe where your family went to the
barber shop or beauty shop?
(Mrs. McKellar): We went to the beauty shop across the street
from our home and some of us went there and some went to our
private hairdresser. Now for the barber shop, the brothers went on
62nd Street near 7th Avenue, I wouldn't know the name of the person
who owned the shop.
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(Ms. Wanza): Could you describe where your family went to the
drugstore?
(Mrs. McKellar): We went to the drugstore on Second Avenue
between Tenth and Eleventh Street to Dr. Lewis.
(Ms. Wanza): Could you describe where your family went to the
cleaners?
(Mrs. McKellar): The cleaners on Tenth Street...no Second
Avenue between Tenth and Eleventh Street.
(Ms. Wanza): Could you describe the churches your family
attended?
(Mrs. McKellar): At the beginning when we were young we all
attended Mt. Zion Baptist Church. As we grew older we selected our
own churches.
(Ms. Wanza): Could you describe where your family went for
entertainment such as theaters, bars, restaurants or sporting
events?
(Mrs. McKellar): Say that again?
(Ms. Wanza): Okay, could you describe where your family went
for entertainment such as theaters, bars, restaurants or sporting
events?
(Mrs. McKellar): We had two theaters that are right there in
on Second Avenue between Eighth and Eleventh Street. One was the
Ritz and the other was the Lyric and restaurant...the restaurant
was run by Shenang, they called her but I've forgotten her name
right now and she was located on Second Avenue between Eighth and
Ninth Street, Willie Lee Johnson was her name and her husband
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worked along with her. It was a restaurant that we would go to
sometime. Doctor...
(Ms. Wanza): What's her name, Willie Mae or Willie Lee?
(Mrs. McKellar): Willie Lee, Willie Lee Johnson and Dr.
Fraizer, I don't know his initials but he was one of the doctors
and he was located between Tenth and Eleventh and Second Avenue and
then there was Dr. Sawyer that sometimes our parents would take us
or they would go there, Bill Sawyer's father and then there was Dr.
Chatman. William Chatman, he lived Overtown and at that time, I
think he was on Ninth Street or Eighth Street between Second and
Third Avenue, I'm not too sure.
(Ms. Wanza): Okay, so when someone got sick in your family
did they go to these doctors' offices or where...which doctors'
offices did they go to?
(Mrs. McKellar): They would go to the doctor's office and a
long time ago, sometimes the doctor would come to the house.
(Ms. Wanza): Was there one particular doctor?
(Mrs. McKellar): Dr. Fraizer in particular.
(Ms. Wanza): How long did you continue to patronize the
businesses in Overtown?
(Mrs. McKellar): Until we moved out here...in the 40's.
(Ms. Wanza): When did you begin to shop or to go to
entertainment outside of Overtown.
(Mrs. McKellar): Didn't do much entertaining. We didn't go
out of town.
(Ms. Wanza): During the period from 1945 to 1970, what were
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the main things that made Overtown a community?
(Mrs. McKellar): Made it a community? There was not there
much of a community I would think because so many of people bad
begun moving to Opa Locka, Liberty City and you know places like
that.
(Ms. Wanza): Okay this is between 1945 and 1970?
(Mrs. McKellar): I should think so.
(Ms. Wanza): Okay. How and when did that sense of community
change?
(Mrs. McKellar): How and when? The community changed when we
were informed that there would be Metro-rail coming through
"Colored Town" they call it...Colored Town...and the Metro-rail
right now goes directly over the house where I was born and I don't
remember just when.
(Ms. Wanza): How has Overtown changed since 1970?
(Mrs. McKellar): I know very little about Overtown now
because I don't go over there but ah...when I have gone, people
that I have seen look like they needed jobs and a home, some...I
remember by the Lyric Theater a woman had a little house built out
of crates and the wearing apparel was not good, I don't know.
(Ms. Wanza): The next set of questions are going to be
regarding 1-95. Okay Mrs. McKellar when and how did you first hear
about the building of I-95?
(Mrs. McKellar): When and how? I had a brother, I have a
brother because he is still alive who, in fact, two brothers heard
about this because a Mrs. Fields had been telling us about it. She
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would attend some of the meetings that they would have...White
people would have. So anyway, our older brother told the other
brother who is in real estate to look around and see an area where
we might move so I understand that I...I think the brother whose in
real estate said that he mentioned it to Dr. ...I've forgotten his
name, he had an office on Third Avenue in between Eighth and Ninth
Street...Dr. Lowry, he mentioned it to Dr. Lowry and Dr. Lowry told
him that he knew of someone who was getting ready to move and had
a family who were living more or less together but in separate
houses so that's how we got to come out here. Our mother was in
that large white house and I lived with her, my husband and I and
my daughter and then there was a sister who was...Ms. Adderly who
lived in a house just a...in the same yard, all of this is in the
yard and then this house, the sister was in...what else? (laughter)
(Ms. Wanza): Where were you living when you first heard about
the building of I-95?
(Mrs. McKellar): I was living at 159 Northwest Tenth Street.
(Ms. Wanza): Did you rent or own the place you lived in at
that time.
(Mrs. McKellar): Owned.
(Ms. Wanza): What kind of reaction was there to the news that
the expressway would come through Overtown?
(Mrs. McKellar): Well it wasn't very pleasant because our
parents, I think our father had passed by that time but our mother
was not too happy of having to leave her neighbors who she had
known for years and it wasn't a very good feeling.
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(Ms. Wanza): Did you discuss it with your neighbors?
(Mrs. McKellar): Discuss moving there? I mean I-95?
(Ms. Wanza): The news that the expressway would come through,
yes.
(Mrs. McKellar): No. Not that I know of.
(Ms. Wanza): Did you attend a meeting where it was discussed
or sign a petition?
(Mrs. Kellar): Or discuss the issue with public officials?
(Ms. Wanza): I think the older members of the family attended
some of the meetings with a...was speaking of coming through but
not all of them...not all of the meetings.
(Ms. Wanza): What was the most important impact of the
expressway on you?
(Mrs. McKellar): On me (laughter)? Well I saw that my
friends and neighbors were moving out and well I didn't want to
stay there, you know, and then the family was talking about moving
out here and, of course, I mentioned it to my husband and he
thought that we would just go along with the group and at that time
we were living with our mother...my husband, daughter and I so we
all got vans and moved out.
(Ms. Wanza): What was it like when the expressway was being
constructed?
(Mrs. McKellar): I don't know because I didn't go over there.
(Ms. Wanza): What was the community able to get from the
public officials in return for 1-95 going through Overtown?
(Mrs, McKellar): What was they able to get?
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(Ms. Wanza): I don't know whether this would be the correct
answer or not but our home was sold, they gave our mother $10,000
for our good home and it really hurt all of us and she got the
money she called the 7 of us in the house because our father had
passed and gave us each a $1,000 but we were all very sad to have
to move because we had grown to like the community so much.
(Ms. Wanza): How did 1-95 affect the community?
(Mrs. McKellar): Well, 1-95, I would say protected the
community because it's the housing...they didn't help to repair
anything, you know they just let everything go down and it looks
like a ghost town more or less. They didn't do very much help and
they gave you very little for your home.
(Ms. Wanza): When did you decide to change your place of
residence?
(Mrs. McKellar): When?
(Ms. Wanza): Yes.
(Mrs. McKellar): 1948.
(Ms. Wanza): Why do you think it was appropriate to change
your place of residence?
(Mrs. McKellar): Why? Well we had to go someplace.
(Ms. Wanza): To whom did you sell the property?
(Mrs. McKellar): To whom did you sell the property? I don't
know.
(Ms. Wanza): Why did you decide to sell the property to the
person or company?
(Mrs. McKellar): I don't know. Well if we didn't sell it,
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they were going to take it.
(Ms. Wanza): Were you fairly compensated?
(Mrs. McKellar): No.
(Ms. Wanza): How long...
(Mrs. McKellar): By no means.
(Ms. Wanza): How long were you given to pack up and get out?
(Mrs. McKellar): That I do not remember.
(Ms. Wanza): What happened to the property after you sold it?
(Mrs. McKellar): They demolished the house that we lived in,
159 Tenth Street and build another two-story...our house was just
a flat but they build a two story house and it's there now but they
made us move.
(Ms. Wanza): Where did you relocate?
(Mrs. McKellar): Here at Glennwood Heights some call it
Brownsville. The whole family.
(Ms. Wanza): What was the mortgage or rent in your new place
compared to your former residence?
(Mrs. McKellar): Say that again?
(Ms. Wanza): What was the mortgage or rent in your new place
compared to your former residence?
(Mrs. McKellar): Oh, I wouldn't know, my brother took care of
that.
(Ms. Wanza): How did you choose your new residence?
(Mrs. McKellar): How did you choose it? Well as I said
sometime ago, the real estate brother talked with Dr. ...I've
forgotten his name.
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(SIDE "B" OF MRS. DOROTHY MCKELLAR'S INTERVIEW)
(Ms. Wanza): This is Side "B" of Mrs. Dorothy McKellar's
interview my name is Stephanie Wanza, I'm the interviewer and
today's date is August 4, 1997, we're in Mrs. McKellar's residence.
Okay, we were on question No. 9, actually question No. 10
which is, how did you choose your new residence?
(Mrs. McKellar): I said previously that we have a brother who
is a real estate...was a real estate broker and he talked with one
of the doctors, Dr. Lowry and told him that we had to move and we
were thinking about...wondering where we could find a suitable
place and the family would like to stay together as we were
Overtown and he told us about out here in Glennwood Heights or
Brown Sub.
(Ms. Wanza): Was the neighborhood in your new location
different from or similar to the neighborhood from which you moved?
(Mrs. McKellar): It was different from the neighborhood where
we were because their were a few Whites...there about three
families of Blacks and all the others were Whites and they moved
within a very short time.
(Ms. Wanza): Okay, we are going to move on to the next
section which ask questions about your house or apartment being
taken by the state under eminent domain. What year did you move?
(Mrs. McKellar): We moved in 1948.
(Mrs. Wanza): Who informed you that you had to move?
(Mrs. McKellar): I don't know because my parents took care of
that.
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Wanza): What were you paid for your home by the State?
(Mrs. McKellar): $10,000.
(Ms. Wanza): Were you fairly compensated?
(Mrs. McKellar): No, by no means.
(Ms. Wanza): How long were you given to pack up and get out?
(Mrs. McKellar): A very short time.
(Ms. Wanza): Were you evicted?
(Mrs. McKellar): No.
(Ms. Wanza): What relocation money did you receive?
(Mrs. McKellar): Laughter. That was in ... I'm going to take
the ????...Not any.
(Ms. Wanza): Where did you relocate?
(Mrs. McKellar): Brown Sub or Glennwood Heights.
(Ms. Wanza): Okay, we're going to move on to the next section
and it's regarding 1-395 and State Road 836. We will go through
the questions regarding the future of the Overtown area and we will
disregard the questions about 1-395 and 836.
What are the most important misconceptions about Overtown?
(Mrs. McKellar): I don't know. I really don't know.
(Ms. Wanza): What do you think public officials need to know
most about Overtown?
(Mrs. McKellar): Well I would say that they need to know more
about what has been...we we had in the past and help to rebuild for
the future.
(Ms. Wanza): What should be done to improve the Overtown area
now such as transportation projects, attractions, job creation or
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beautification programs?
(Mrs. McKellar): All of that (laughter). All of it.
(Ms. Wanza): What should be the relationship between Overtown
and downtown Miami?
(Mrs. McKellar): The relationship should be mutual. I really
don't know.
(Ms. Wanza): When you have visitors from out-of-town where do
you take them to show them the culture and history of Dade County's
African-American community?
(Mrs. McKellar): Laughter. I don't go no place but there are
members of my family who takes them...where are you speaking, here
in ah...
(Ms. Wanza): In Dade County.
(Mrs. McKellar): In Dade County? Well the courthouse and
(laughter) schools, Bayside and places like that.
(Ms. Wanza): Could you describe in your own words what kind
of community you would like Overtown to be in the future?
(Mrs. McKellar): I would like for Overtown to be like it was
in the past, have stores, amusement places, drugstores, of a
different nature, you know, restaurants and beautiful homes, I
don't know. I don't know.
(Ms. Wanza): This is the end of my interview session with Ms.
Dorothy McKellar. I'm ending the interview on Side "B" I am
Stephanie Wanza the interviewer and I'm ending the interview again
on today's date, August 4, 1997.
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