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Interview with Archie Jackson

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Title:
Interview with Archie Jackson
Creator:
Barrows, Mark ( Interviewer )
Marston, Ruth C. ( Transcriber )
Place of Publication:
Gainesville, Fla.
Publisher:
Matheson Historical Museum
Publication Date:
Language:
English

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Matheson History Museum
Holding Location:
Matheson History Museum
Rights Management:
Made available under a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 4.0 International license: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/.

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MATHESON HISTORICAL MUSEUM

ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM


Interviewee: Interviewer: Transcriber:


Archie Jackson Dr. Mark Barrows Ruth C. Marston


April 4, 2001

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Interview with Archie Jackson 2
April 4, 2001

B: This is Mark Barrow, and I am doing an oral history here in Archie Jackson's
home. It's April 3, a few days after April Fool's Day, at 1:00 p.m. Archie, tell me what is the address of your house. (Is this April 3 or 41h as indicated in
writing on the tape? RCM)

J: 6415 S.E. 92nd Terrace.

B: First off, I know you've been interested for a long time in your family history as
well as local history. Why don't you just give us some background -and I know you have the papers there with you -of the Jackson's and when they came here
and where.

J: The Jackson family came here in the 1840's, late 1840's.

B: Did Lawrence's family group move down here or just his family?

J: He came down here to fann. They were on the move, looking for better things.
They were in the cattle business.

B: came down to Newnansville first.

J: With his father. I have a sheet in there that he moved here with his father when
he was five years old.

B: So he was a youngster. And he was really the one who started the farming and
the share cropping.

J: That's correct.

B: the town of Gainesville and the railroad
through there.

J: We used to own what was called Lake. In high water times,
it adjoins or vice versa, and all of Paynes Prairie.

B: Any relation to the old Indian village that was right near
there on the south rim of the Prairie.

J: There is a large bluff leading down to that lake,

B: When came through in 1774, he drew a little X where the
old Indian village was. There were Seminoles there then, but they still use that village to camp. There are two maps of Paynes Prairie. We've got pictures of them at the Matheson, and they are a little different, so it was shown on two different locations. I was always hoping that someday the Florida Museum of

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Interview with Archie Jackson 3
April 4, 2001

Natural History or the archeologist staff would locate that village. It would seem
to me to be very important.

J: That part belongs to a man named Andrews. He bought it from my family twenty
years ago.

B: So they settled in Newnansville, and they came on over to the Paynes Prairie area
and farmed a bit, and then what happened?

J: Well, they farmed for a few years and then the War Between the States broke out
in 1874.

B: Lawrence's first wife we don't know the name of, right?

J: I don't have it here in my records.

B: One of the children of that marriage was your grandfather and his name was?

J: Archie Lawrence Jackson.

B: Okay. Did he have brothers and sisters?

J: Yes, he did.

B: By that same wife?

J: Archibald Lawrence.

B: Where did he settle in? Do we have photos?

J: I don't think we did.

B: We'll need to do that. This would be a picture of the home place on Kincaid
Road with a horse and wagon out front and the three people would be your father,
Archie Lawrence Jackson, his wife

J: And probably her sister Leone.

B: Was it off of Kincaid Road? Was it at the bend?

J: No. The house faced
south.

B: Faced the Prairie.

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Interview with Archie Jackson 4
April 4, 2001

J: Yes. It's what we call the "home place" around here. Then you had to go south
across ACL Railroad and you're on

B: Archie L. Jackson, who was your grandfather, had how many children?

J: He only had two: Lovett and Leone.

B: Now, did Lovett live in this house, too?

J: We lived there at a later date. We lived to the west of that house, about half


B: What was Lovett's birthdate?



B: They had been married for a pretty good while when you were born?

J: About a year and a half. His first wife died at 34.

B: You lived in Lovett's house for several years or go back to the home place?

J: We lived in that house to the left of the home place
with granddaddy.

B: So you all moved back to the original home place on Kincaid Road and you were
basically raised there?

J: I lived there for thirteen years.

B: Meat market. Who started all that?

J: They raised their own cattle and
they went out Main Street and 331. They killed them there.
Harold would say, "I want

B: So you were raised in the old home place. Where did you go to school?

J: I went to Kirby-Smith.

B: you change from Kirby- Smith to go to J. J. Finley?



B: So you finished high school at the new G.H.S. Building on 13 th and then what did
you do?

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Interview with Archie Jackson 5
April 4, 2001


J: I graduated and went into the U.S. Army.

B: What happened after you got out of the Army?



B: they are now.

J: They dug them up because they were very poisonous to cattle. I have seen one or
two back there, but I think it's where they dumped them. A Sinclair bought it, and a fellow named Tom Walsh bought it, and we bought it from the Walshes. It stayed in two or three hands over the years. It changed hands, but nobody ever
bought it. The city finally bought it.

B: When this property was purchased here, there were more than 600 acres.

J: We bought it in '60 and moved out here in January 196 1. B: And your father, Lovett, built his house.

J: That house was already up there. Bob Sinclair built that house. B: And you built this one?

J: We built this in 1963.

B: When did you join the Sheriff's Department?

J: 1969.

B: So you hardware people, Frank Bennett?

J: Yes.

B: He gave me a bunch of folders. A big hardware store.

J: Idon't know.

B: They had all the way down to the floor. Last
summer I went to a garage sale in Micanopy. In the back of the garage, I saw a calendar with a pretty lady on it. I went back to look at the lady, and it was an old Baird Hardware calendar in 19 There was a beautiful thermometer there -an thermnometer. I think Shorty Bean ended up with that, and he got it from Shorty Bean. It's in perfect shape.

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Interview with Archie Jackson 6
April 4, 2001

When you went on the Sheriff s Department, who was the sheriff then?

J: Joe Crevasse.

B: How long were you with the Sheriff s Department?

J: Twenty-seven years.

B: That's a long time. You saw lots of changes. Who was Sheriff after him?

J: Lou Endr Then Steve Oelrich. He was elected in November 1976.

B: When you joined the department, how big was it?

J: Not big at all. Probably



(New tape)

B: You retired from the Sheriff's Department, and that was a closed page. Tell me
about what you've done since you retired.

J: I attend a lot of car shows. I have a good friend, Jimmy Brooker, that I was born
and raised with. We got to car shows. He has an interest in cars. I've restored a '50 Ford, and he's in the process of restoring one at this time. He has a '56 Ford
that he has restored. He's really good at it, and he has helped me with a lot of it. B: Can you get all the parts for these cars now?

J: You can go to Dennis Carpenter in Charlotte, N.C., and get just anything but the
car. There are a multitude of places in the country now that have opened up, but Carpenter in Charlotte bought the Ford molds. He is the authorized Ford
reproduction man in the United States.

B: So he can make anything.

J: Yes. He is a multi, multi millionaire. He has got a barn as big as this one acre
here full of nothing but Cushman motor scooters. He is also Cushman motor scooter parts representative. You can get everything you want for the car, and there are a lot of junk yards around. There is one just north of town. He has
twenty '50 Fords in it.

B: So that's your main interest now.


J: Iwork in the yard.

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Interview with Archie Jackson 7
April 4, 2001


B: Is the Jimmy Brooker fellow the one you have breakfast with


J: Yes, we're leaving for Charlotte in the morning.

B: Just to look at other people's cars and show yours?

J: No, we're not taking the cars. We're going to take a lot of extra parts to sell. It's
the Charlotte Motor Speedway. That place is full, and the outside is full of parts: gas pumps, oil drums, car parts, cars. You can't see it all in three days. It's huge. B: Okay, so you're going to get rid of some of your extra parts.

J: Ihope to.

B: Let's look at some of the pictures and other documents.

J: Let's regress to Andrew Jackson. He was in Company C of the Central Florida
Infantry from March '62 to May '65. He was paroled April 26, 1965. B: Do you know if he got a pension or not?

J: No, he didn't live too long. He died in 1974 or '75 or '76.

B: I ask that because James Douglas Matheson, who fought in the Civil War, got a
pension. After the Civil War, how could a Confederate get a pension?
J: My granddaddy, Lawrence, got a pension. My wife's uncle, Aunt Ken, got a
pension. I have his papers, I think.

B: Why would they give it to a Confederate?

J: I don't know, but they got a pension. There was a Confederate Soldiers' Home. B: I just wonder where the money came from.

J: I don't know but they got pensions.

B: I always thought that was peculiar. Now, let's go over any other records you've
got there that you wanted to comment on.

J: These are just the birth records I've been reading to you.

B: Okay, so you've got all this genealogy information. We'd like to get a copy of
that. We can copy that if you'll bring it down someday.

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Interview with Archie Jackson 8
April 4, 2001


J: All right, or you can take it with you. Here's John Jackson, immigrant from
England. He immigrated to Clarksburg, Virginia, in 1801. B: Okay, so they came over at the turn of the century. J: They came to America in 1748. Met on shipboard. He came to Maryland after a
few years and married. Two other sons born in Maryland. Lived in northern
Virginia. Revolutionary soldiers. All this kind of stuff. B: Let's see what else. What is this map? J: That's just an old map of the Florida Southern Railway, the old ACO Railroad is
what it is.

B: Is your land near that? J: It ran right through our land. B: But your land doesn't show on this particular map? J: Not at that time.

B: Did you all own any of this property in here? J: This is what we call the old home place right in here. You see, there's Oliver
Park, so we're back this side.

B: Sure. We'll need a picture of that. This is some of the cattle? J: That's up on the courthouse square. B: Yes. 4H.

J: 4H judging.

B: You were in that when you were a youngster, weren't you? J: No, I never was. I was in FFA. That's taken in the 40's. Granddaddy is right
there somewhere. I have another picture here somewhere.

B: Let's take a look at your other pictures and go through those, because you can
always get very interesting information. You have some pedigree charts or genealogy charts that you are going to copy and put with this record, which I think will be very valuable. Now let's look at some of the photographs. I think
you loaned us some of these before.

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Interview with Archie Jackson 9
April 4, 2001


J: Yes. You've got all the good stuff. This is a picture of granddaddy taken on the
Kincaid Road with a Hereford bull he bought. There's nothing important in here. B: You have a lot of pictures of the cattle, but those are interesting, too. These are
the cattle that would have been butchered down there, right?

J: Well, this is a short-horn bull. My granddaddy was in the short-horn business.
This picture was taken in the early 1900's out there on Kincaid Road.

That's my daddy and a lady named Geraldine

B: I think we've got a picture of that one, I believe. That's when he was a youngster.

J: Yes, he was a young kid. She lived in McIntosh. That's my sister with a steer.
She won Grand Champion at Ocala.

B: That one I'm pretty sure we have, too, don't we?

J: That may have been taken in Jacksonville. He took a lot of cattle to the
Jacksonville Fair. It looks suspiciously like Paynes Prairie, but how would you
get somebody with cattle around on Paynes Prairie in those days? B: That's true.

J: That's a cattlemen's barbecue. That's my granddaddy.

B: Okay. There is a record there "Alachua County cattlemen hold a barbecue." Is he
the one squatting down?

J: Yes, he is the one squatting down. I've never seen my granddaddy squat, but that
is my granddaddy. Here's another one -in 1940 -and there's my grandfather on
the right, his sister, and my grandmother. B: You're not in here.

J: No sir. I was only three years old then -not quite three.

B: Okay, that's probably one of the most famous pictures in your collection.

J: This is the saddle I've been telling you about. That saddle was out there in that
house. That pistol in that holster is in my gun safe. B: Those two boys are who?

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Interview with Archie Jackson 10
April 4, 2001

J: That's Archie L. Jackson and that's McDonald -Thomas Edward McDonald,
Judge Harry McDonald's father.

B: Who made that picture? Do you know anything about it?

J: No sir.

B: You just have it in your collection.

J: That's right. If there's a signature on the bottom of it, I don't know. I would
have to find the original and look.

B: Right. You have all that in your safe?

J: It's around here somewhere.

B: That one has been shown. That's one of the more valuable ones. Had they just
come in from a cattle drive?

J: They had just come in from a cattle drive down in Levy County. That was taken
over behind where Parker Office Supply was. That's what my dad said. That's
when I worked a short time for Sam Nunn in Perry, Georgia. Senator Nunn.

B: Are there any other documents or photographs you've got that we can go over?

J: No, not right offhand.

B: Any other things on Gainesville or Alachua County history?

J: No sir.

B: Do you remember when the red brick courthouse came down?

J: I remember something about it, yes.

B: Were you in the Sheriffs Department by then?

J: No. That was built. .

B: In 1886 and it was torn down about 1959.

J: I'm sure you've got plenty of pictures of that.

B: Yes, we've got one where they were building the other one and tearing the old
one down beside it.

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Interview with Archie Jackson I I
April 4, 2001

J: I've got a bunch of colored postcards of different angles of that courthouse. B: You do? We'd like to see those. Okay, we're going to talk about some of these
postcards you've collected of Alachua County. Do you remember about this one
right here.

J: That's over at Hogtown Creek.

B: Yes, where would that bridge have been?

J: Around Glen Springs I would think.

B: That's where I suspect it was.

J: I suspect that was the springs either to the right or left of that bridge.

B: That's what I thought. Rather than being over West University where West
University Avenue is now.

Of course, Kirby-Smith that you've got there. That's the school you went to.
Down below that at the bottom is a picture of the municipal water plant. They built the new water plant around that and it is still there. They're fixing to clean it
up and use that as a little display area

J: Of course, that was gone and covered over before my time.

B: Let's look at that building here for a second. You've got one of the old Odd
Fellows on here. Is that any of the pictures of that photograph that you were
showing me?

J: Right here it does.

B: Does it have any columns?

J: There are columns, but they're columns.

B: Yes. I don't think it's the same building.

J: I don't think it is either.

B: Lord knows where that was. I've never seen that building.

J: This was taken just about the time that other picture was taken. I would say it's
the same day. He got the same pose, everything, the same man. The only thing different is that he had his ann linked in the other picture and a man was beside
him.

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Interview with Archie Jackson 12
April 4, 2001


B: This Buchholz school. That was one of the schools you went to.

J: The old Gainesville High School.

B: Of course, this building called the Brown Hotel is still there. It's always
interesting to me that the train stopped between the Brown Hotel and the White House. I guess they gave the people a choice as to where they would get their
meal.

J: Yes, where that Soul Train is, there was a restaurant there, the Presto Restaurant.

B: Is that where that was -where the Soul Train is now? Have you got a postcard of
the Presto?

J: No. I do remember this. They had a chef on the side of it in blue. Now, the next
block down, next to where the old Alachua County public housing was, there was
the Royal Caf6.

B: Tfhe next block east?

J: West. It's right next to the State Attorney's parking lot. That was the Royal
Caf6.

B: Have you ever heard of a cafd called the Alachua Cafd?

J: Never have.

B: We've got a cup that was dug up over at the old city that says
Alachua Caf6. It was real early, turn of the century. It would be before your
time.

J: When we were in the yard of that old house, the back yard was white sand. My
daddy saw a piece of metal sticking up out of the ground, he dug around it and it was an old money chest, one of these old cash boxes. It was almost all gone, but
in there was a key to the Astor Hotel in Gainesville, Florida.

B: The Astor Hotel? I never heard of it.

J: I never heard of it. I don't know what became of that key. When I was in the
Army, my mother got smart and threw a lot of my stuff away. She threw my Confederate money away. But there was a key in that box to the Astor Hotel in
Gainesville, Florida.


B: Well, we'll look at some of the old records.

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Interview with Archie Jackson 13
April 4, 2001

J: I've never heard it mentioned anywhere.

B: No. There was the Arlington but not the Astor.

J: I had my picture done at the Arlington. But this was the Astor Hotel. An old big,
black key. But how did it get in that back yard?

B: Let's talk about any of the interesting experiences you had when you were
growing up here. When was the last lynching in Alachua County? That was
before your time.

J: That was before my time. They can't blame that on me.

B: Right. What about any other interesting things during your school years?

J: It was very quiet around here in the 19 50's. Of course, we had the student
upheavals out there. I know they beat Georgia Tech in '53 and they burned a Model A Ford there at the intersection of 13 and University. When I went to school, it was very quiet. The biggest incident we had was during the war when that section behind what is now Subway and used to be Woolworth's blew up.
The taxi cab company blew up back there. Where that parking lot is in the back there, that was buildings, and they just never built it back. That whole block burned during World War II. It was some kind of gas explosion. I can distinctly remember seeing soldiers out there guarding it. I can see him with his rifle with a
bayonet on it.

B: Do you remember where the Magnolia Hotel was? Where the First Union Bank is
now.

J: No. That was the train depot when I was growing up.

B: Well, it was right next to that.

J: I don't remember that.

B: Babe Ruth stayed there. That's the reason I know about it. We had some old
papers and I read that he stayed there.

J: I remember the White House was right there on the corner by that florist shop. I
used to wash his car. There was a filling station where the florist shop is now and
I worked there when I was about fourteen years old.

B: And you washed the car for Thomas?


J: People would come down from the White House Hotel.

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Interview with Archie Jackson 14
April 4, 2001

B: The hotel was not where the Sun Bank is now? It was a little further south?

J: The Gainesville House was right there on the corner, right in the parking lot. The is here and there is a parking lot next to it. That's where the Gainesville House was. I thought the fellow was very aged at the time.
He had a black '51 Buick and I hated to wash that thing. It was hard. That's
where the Gainesville House was, right in that parking lot.

B: Okay, I know where you're talking about. We don't have any information. on that
either.

J: That's been gone quite some time.

B: Did you know Major Thomas?

J: Yes. Everybody who lived in that area came to that filling station. They traded
there. The ,the Thomases -all those people. Mary
Parker McGraw, and the -. Everybody that was anybody
traded at the Filling Station. That's where I met a lot of
folks and progressed on up through Baird Hardware. I got to know people that
worked in Baird's and got hired over there.

B: The Pounds.

J: Frank Bennett got me out of the hardware end of it into automotive.

B: Frank was my next door neighbor for years, so he told me a lot about Baird
Hardware. All right, did any other interesting things happen here when you were
growing up or after you got grown and were in the Sheriff's Department?

J: Well, the Sheriffs office was a very interesting experience. I met a lot of folks
there. Baird Hardware was basically my formative years with people who worked there, specifically Joe -, who was the parts manager there in
automotive. He taught me a lot. They constantly ragged me and kidded me.
They would go out there and jack up my car where it wouldn't move. Remember those tricks? I got an education there, Dr. Barrow, that I couldn't have gotten at a
college.

B: About people.

J: I got mad one day and flew off the handle, and he said, "Let me tell you
something, Archie. If people kid with you, they like you. If they don't kid with you, they don't like you." I thought about that. A 17-year old kid, I thought
about and decided he was right.

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Interview with Archie Jackson 15
April 4, 2001

The Sheriffs office was a different story. I had already formed a lot of opinions.
I changed a lot of opinions about people when I went to work down there. I always tried to treat people like I wanted to be treated. I didn't stand for any foolishness. If you acted like somebody, I treated you like somebody. I didn't care whether you were black, white, red or whatever. As long as you treated me
right, I would treat you right. I learned a lot about folks down there.

B: And I bet you they learned that very quickly, too, didn't they?

J: They can pick up on you right quick. I had several instances where they pick up
on you how you hold yourself, how you deal with a situation. They are kind of like animals. Animals can sense when you're afraid, and people can sense it, also.

B: Absolutely, no question about it.

J: It was a very interesting experience. I never got hurt. I was very fortunate in that.
I never hurt anybody. I never had to shoot anybody. I never had to injure anyone.
The biggest thing I ever got was a scratch on my little finger out on the interstate
tussling with a suspect. I was very fortunate. I had a great career.

B: How did you get interested in the history of your family and the area, collecting
these things that you've collected?

J: Well, we had an aunt who came to live with us in the early 60's before we moved
over here. She was my grandmother's sister. She used to take care of the whooping owl. She was quite a character. She never married, but she hunted
cows in the woods. I've got her history somewhere.

B: What was her name?

J: Leila Jones. Aunt Lea. She had a lot of this type furniture and a lot of antiques,
and that's where I got interested in antiques and history. By reading her history and what she had done. Here she is a lady hunting cows in the woods. She must
have been a character.

B: She was a cattle woman. She didn't mind getting out there and hustling.

J: In fact, she thought she was going to marry my granddaddy, but he married her
sister. There was always kind of a rivalry there.

B: A little bit of a bad feeling? Now, tell me about your foreman again. Give me the
story on that.

J: My granddaddy had a black individual named Sam Johnson who worked for him.
He made him farin manager.

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Interview with Archie Jackson 16
April 4, 2001

B: How many were working on the farm?

J: Probably 15 or 20 people. He put him in charge of the farm, which angered one
of my granddaddy's brothers who was working out there so he left and went to Texas. They branched off into a group of people named Streeter. They would go out occasionally and see these folks, but they never came back to Florida. They never made I know that Granddaddy had gone out there
a couple times. In fact, Granddaddy Jackson brought the first Hereford cattle to
Florida I think in 1904. He went out to Texas and bought it.

B: Did he bring it here by rail?

J: He brought it back by rail.

B: So he was raising Herefords then.

J: Right.

B: Well, I think we've covered pretty much everything. Anything else you want to
cover?

J: No, I think that's it.

B: Do you like living in Gainesville and Alachua County?

J: I've always said I wouldn't live anywhere else, Dr. Barrow, but I have seen so
many changes and some I think are for the worst. The community has become so liberal and I am a conservative individual. The community has become so
crowded.

B: Crowded is a big problem.

J: I won't go on the west side of this county after three o'clock .This is my home. I've only found one place I'd like to live more, and I couldn't live there during the winter and that's Montana. I like it out in Montana and Wyoming. As far as people go, I think you can't beat Alachua
County.

B: I agree with you there.

J: Times change, and as John Wayne said, "They generally change for the best."
But times are changing. I'm an antique.

B: I guess I am, too. Fortunately, the Prairie is saved as it was and will always be as
it was. That's sort of nice.

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Interview with Archie Jackson 17
April 4, 2001

J: You haven't lived until you ride from one side to the other on a horse. It will take
you all day! I have done it.

B: On the canals or just through the middle.

J: Right through the middle of it. Of course, this was years ago. I saw some things
happen out there. Airplanes crashed out there during the war.

B: They have horse rides out there occasionally, but I missed the one they had a
couple years ago. Rangers take people out there across a good part of it. Have you ever done that overnight campout? There is one where they walk from the Sink to Persimmon Point and camp out. There is no water. There's an outhouse.
Persimmon Point overlooks the Prairie. It's beautiful. Have you been there?

J: Many times.

B: It's a beautiful place.

J: The lore and the legend around the area was that there was a wagon train attacked
there by the Indians and they buried their valuables and stuck a gun barrel down where they buried them and they never found it. That's just a legend. It was told
in my family for years.

It's just like out here. Bruce an old-timer out here, told my
daddy there used to be a Seminole Indian fort just east of our house up here. I know there was one right outside our kitchen window because we dug stuff out of
it. I have a 1842 dime, crystal balls, cannon balls.

B: Do you know which fort it was?

J: Fort Crane. Several years ago some individuals from Tampa came up here with
maps. They would fly around taking infrared pictures. They said, "We want to excavate Fort Crane." I said Fort Crane is over here on 234. The state has designated it. They had signs over there then. "Oh no, it's right here in your daddy's pasture." They went out there and began to dig. The first thing they dug up was a cannonball, about a six pounder. Then they dug up the old watches where you had to wind them. They had an for
infantry and a horse rearing with one foot up on the other. I have it; it's in here in my collection. There was an 1842 dime, which dates the fort. There were crystal balls out there. They dug up hundreds of crystal balls. They said this was where
Fort Crane was.

B: There are a lot of those forts that they've misplaced.

J: As I said, they took infrared pictures from airplanes and they said this was where
it was.

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Interview with Archie Jackson 18
April 4, 2001

B: Now, this was in your father's house near here?

J: Half a mile up there. Right outside there is where we kept the bulls during the
off-season. We called it the bull pasture. They said it was right out here in my daddy's bull pasture. It stands to reason. It's the highest point of ground around
here, not very high, but it was open and high. But Bruce
said it was a little east of the house and there was a pond with a bluff, not a very
high bluff, but it's high enough so you can see what's going on around you.

B: What fort was it?

J: He never said.

B: He said there was another one there?

J: Governor Perry's house used to sit where this house sits. The stagecoach trail is
still in my front yard.

B: Right out here?

J: Right out there between the house and the cedar tree. There are routes and you
can go out up to where he used to live and look south
toward Micanopy and you can see where it went out. The opening is still in the trees where the stagecoach went out and went down to what was called Stagecoach Pond right down here at Oak Ridge Cemetery. That's where they
changed horses.

B: Where was Perry's house?

J: Right here where we're sitting right here. He had another house up there in the
field next to the railroad, and I've got one of the buttons off of his coat. I found it with a metal detector. It's got crossed cannons and South Carolina. It's one of those big coat buttons. It had to be his. That was another one of the Perry houses.
They call that the Sally Perry house.

B: Is it still there?

J: No, it's been torn down for years. I have some of the bricks out of the chimney in
my yard out here. The steps were still there. I would go out there with a metal detector and I found two or three Indian head pennies out there in the plowed
field. I found that button. I would love to find a trash pile.

B: I'm sure it's around there.

J: Those boys from Tampa went out there with Spanish needles and metal detectors
and they have never found it. I've dug up numerous artifacts around this yard

..




Interview with Archie Jackson 19
April 4, 2001

here. My daughter found a 1905 nickel down here beside a tree. She found a Florida Southern Railway badge that she found that comes off a conductor's hat.
It says Florida Southern Railway, Badge 1302. It's in perfect condition. B: Was there a railway through here?

J: This was the same one. It just became ACL after Florida Southern Railway. I
think Florida Southern went out in 1895.

B: I think you're right. So this is a very historic area.

J: Oh yes. Where we're sitting is actually Colderville. It went back in here across
234 back in those woods over there. Rochelle is just outside my fence there. B: So Colderville is on the east side and Rochelle is on the west side.

J: I can't claim residence for Rochelle. I'm in Colderville.

B: I don't believe I ever heard of Colderville.

J: It's on the maps.

B: On the old maps. Was there a post office here?

J: The post office was probably Rochelle. It was right over here just about a little
over a quarter mile across the street here. B: So Colderville started on this side.

J: Right about that fence. You see, my road by my fence down there is a section
line. It goes all the way up to my dad's house right through the middle of it. B: The stagecoach ran from where? From Rochelle?

J: Wherever it went to.

B: Ocala, Micanopy?

J: They claim they changed horses down at Oak Ridge Cemetery. There's a pond
behind the cemetery. They call it Stagecoach Pond. That's what my daddy called
it. They changed horses there, according to him.

B: Then they probably went to either Micanopy or Ocala.

J: I think this was kind of a restaurant stop. The house was only torn down in the
40's. Hogan over here said it was a big thing.

..




Interview with Archie Jackson 20
April 4, 2001


B: The Perry house. Did it sort of rot away?

J: Just sort of rotted, so they tore it down. He helped Sinclair tear it down when
Sinclair bought the property.

B: Do you know about this little church over there by the Rochelle school? There is
a little church there. Did you ever go there when it was active?

J: No. years, and it wasn't active then.

B: It's a beautiful church.

J: Yes. You ought to go down to the schoolhouse. B: I've been there.

J: The music is still on the board. The music that the teacher put on for that class is
still on the blackboard over there. B: I know.

J: Wallace gave me a desk out of there.

B: Yes, he gave one to Sara. We have .He still
owns that. We're hoping someday he doesn't just give it away or throw it away.
Maybe he would give it to the Matheson.

J: I saw Wallace this morning. B: Whereabouts?

J: In the barber shop. B: Is he doing all right?

J: He seemed to be better.

B: We need to do an oral history on him. Marinus Latour is going to help us.

J: Don't wait too long. He can tell you a lot. B: Yes.

J: My aunt down in McIntosh can tell you a lot. She's getting very, very aged,
though. They're going to be gone.

..




Interview with Archie Jackson 21
April 4, 2001


B: I know. That's why we need to do it. It's not too early to do them.

J: I would love to have been able to talk with my great-granddaddy.

B: Yes, wouldn't that be wonderful.

J: Oh, the tales he told that my daddy told me of some of the things that went on.
He told a tale, and I know for a fact that the wagon was there when I was a child out at Haile Plantation where that little cemetery is down there. There were pieces of wagon around that cemetery, and I asked him about that wagon. My daddy laughed and said, "There was a man that worked down there who had a horse and wagon. He was coming through there one night and he had a dog that rode in the wagon with him. When the dog would get tired, he would get up in the wagon. He was coming along at dark one afternoon and that dog jumped up in the wagon and that horse or mule or
whatever ran away and hit a tree out there and scattered that wagon all over that cemetery." All I can tell you is what my daddy told me. He hit a tree and tore
that wagon all to pieces. I've heard him tell that and laugh about it.

B: Did you ever hear the story around here of the Was that
when you were growing up?

J: I never heard of that.

B: There was this old folklore story around the Prairie and in central Florida about a
furry animal with like a

J: I never heard that tale. Now there were panthers here when I was a kid. There
was one that came through on that Prairie regularly. We used to fox hunt down there and wildcat hunt on the Prairie with hounds, and that thing would scream.
The dogs would leave. They would go home!

B: They didn't like that sound.

J: No, I never heard a tale of a

B: I've read something in the paper. I just talked to some old-timers and none of
them know anything about it, so I don't think it was true. You were born and
raised on the Prairie.

J: I was born and raised on the Prairie. I never heard that tale.

B: Okay, well, I think we've pretty well covered everything. We'll get this typed.
We may have to do a bit of editing where we got blocked off, but we can fill that
in later. I am going to go ahead and stop now.

..


Full Text
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MATHESON HISTORICAL MUSEUM ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM Interviewee: Archie Jackson Interviewer: Dr. Mark Barrows Transcriber: Ruth C. Marston April 4, 2001

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Interview with Archie Jackson April 4, 2001 2 B: This is Mark Barrow, and I am doing an oral history here in Archie Jackson’s home. It’s April 3, a few days after April Fool’s Day, at 1:00 p.m. Archie, tell me what is the address of your house. (Is this April 3 or 4th, as indicated in writing on the tape? RCM) J: 6415 S.E. 92nd Terrace. B: First off, I know you’ve been interested for a long time in your family history as well as local history. Why don’t you just give us some background – and I know you have the papers there with you – of the Jackson’s and when they came here and where. J: The Jackson family came he re in the 1840’s, late 1840’s. B: Did Lawrence’s family group move down here or just his family? J: He came down here to farm. They we re on the move, looking for better things. They were in the cattle business. B: _____________________ came down to Newnansville first. J: With his father. I have a sheet in ther e that he moved here with his father when he was five years old. B: So he was a youngster. And he was re ally the one who started the farming and the share cropping. J: That’s correct. B: ______________________ the town of Gainesv ille and the railroad _________ through there. J: We used to own what was called ________________ Lake. In high water times, it adjoins ______________ or vice versa, and all of Paynes Prairie. B: Any relation to the old __________________ Indi an village that was right near there on the south rim of the Prairie. J: There is a large bluff le ading down to that lake, ________________. B: When ___________________ came through in 1774, he drew a little X where the old Indian village was. There were Semi noles there then, but they still use that village to camp. There ar e two maps of Paynes Prairie. We’ve got pictures of them at the Matheson, and they are a lit tle different, so it was shown on two different locations. I was always hopi ng that someday the Florida Museum of

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Interview with Archie Jackson April 4, 2001 3 Natural History or the archeologist staff would locate that village. It would seem to me to be very important. J: That part belongs to a man named Andr ews. He bought it from my family twenty years ago. B: So they settled in Newnansville, and they came on over to the Paynes Prairie area and farmed a bit, and then what happened? J: Well, they farmed for a few years and then the War Between the States broke out in 1874. B: Lawrence’s first wife we don’t know the name of, right? J: I don’t have it here in my records. B: One of the children of that marriage was your grandfather and his name was? J: Archie Lawrence Jackson. B: Okay. Did he have brothers and sisters? J: Yes, he did. B: By that same wife? J: Archibald Lawrence. B: Where did he settle in? Do we have photos? J: I don’t think we did. B: We’ll need to do that. This would be a picture of the home place on Kincaid Road with a horse and wagon out front and the three people would be your father, Archie Lawrence Jackson, his wife _______________. J: And probably her sister Leone. B: Was it off of Kincaid Road? Was it at the bend? J: No. The house ______________________. ____________________ faced south. B: Faced the Prairie.

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Interview with Archie Jackson April 4, 2001 4 J: Yes. It’s what we call the “home place” around here. Then you had to go south across ACL Railroad and you’re on __________________. B: Archie L. Jackson, who was your gr andfather, had how many children? J: He only had two: Lovett and Leone. B: Now, did Lovett live in this house, too? J: We lived there at a later date. We lived to the west of that house, about half ___________________. B: What was Lovett’s birthdate? J: ____________________. B: They had been married for a pretty good while when you were born? J: About a year and a half. His first wife died at 34. B: You lived in Lovett’s house for several years or go back to the home place? J: We lived in that house to the left of the home place _______________________ with granddaddy. B: So you all moved back to the original home place on Kincaid Road and you were basically raised there? J: I lived there for th irteen years. _______________________________ B: Meat market. Who started all that? J: _____________________________________ They raised their own cattle and they went out _______________ Main Street and 331. They killed them there. Harold would say, “I want ____________.” B: So you were raised in the old home place. Where did you go to school? J: I went to Kirby-Smith. B: _______________ you change from Kirby-Smith to go to J.J. Finley? J: _________________________. B: So you finished high school at the new G.H.S. Building on 13th and then what did you do?

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Interview with Archie Jackson April 4, 2001 5 J: I graduated and went into the U.S. Army. B: What happened after you got out of the Army? J: _____________________________________. B: _______________ they are now. J: They dug them up because they were very poisonous to cattle. I have seen one or two back there, but I think it’s where they dumped them. A Sinclair bought it, and a fellow named Tom Walsh bought it, a nd we bought it from the Walshes. It stayed in two or three hands over the years. It changed hands, but nobody ever bought it. The city finally bought it. B: When this property was purchased here, there were more than 600 acres. J: We bought it in and m oved out here in January 1961. B: And your father, Lovett, built his house. J: That house was already up there. Bob Sinclair built that house. B: And you built this one? J: We built this in 1963. B: When did you join the Sheriff’s Department? J: 1969. B: So you ________________________________ hardware people, Frank Bennett? J: Yes. B: He gave me a bunch of folders. A big hardware store. J: I don’t know. B: They had _______________________ all the way down to the floor. Last summer I went to a garage sale in Micanopy. In the b ack of the garage, I saw a calendar with a pretty lady on it. I went back to look at the lady, and it was an old Baird Hardware calendar in 19___. There was a beautiful thermometer there – an ____________________ thermometer. I think Shorty Bean ended up with that, and he got it from Shorty Bean. It’s in perfect shape.

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Interview with Archie Jackson April 4, 2001 6 When you went on the Sheriff’s Department, who was the sheriff then? J: Joe Crevasse. B: How long were you with the Sheriff’s Department? J: Twenty-seven years. B: That’s a long time. You saw lots of changes. Who was Sheriff after him? J: Lou Endr__________. Then Steve Oelrich. He was elected in November 1976. B: When you joined the department, how big was it? J: Not big at all. Probably _________________. __________________________. (New tape) B: You retired from the Sheriff’s Departme nt, and that was a closed page. Tell me about what you’ve done since you retired. J: I attend a lot of car shows. I have a good friend, Jimmy Brooker, that I was born and raised with. We got to car shows. He has an interest in cars. I’ve restored a Ford, and he’s in the process of restor ing one at this time. He has a Ford that he has restored. He’s really good at it, and he has helped me with a lot of it. B: Can you get all the parts for these cars now? J: You can go to Dennis Carpenter in Charlo tte, N.C., and get just anything but the car. There are a multitude of places in the country now that have opened up, but Carpenter in Charlotte bought the Ford molds. He is the authorized Ford reproduction man in the United States. B: So he can make anything. J: Yes. He is a multi, multi millionaire. He has got a barn as big as this one acre here full of nothing but Cushman motor sc ooters. He is also Cushman motor scooter parts representative. You can get everything you want for the car, and there are a lot of junk yards around. Ther e is one just north of town. He has twenty Fords in it. B: So that’s your main interest now. J: I work in the yard.

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Interview with Archie Jackson April 4, 2001 7 B: Is the Jimmy Brooker fellow th e one you have breakfast with __________________? J: Yes, we’re leaving for Charlotte in the morning. B: Just to look at other pe ople’s cars and show yours? J: No, we’re not taking the cars. We’re going to take a lot of extra parts to sell. It’s the Charlotte Motor Speedway. That place is full, and the outside is full of parts: gas pumps, oil drums, car parts, cars. You can’t see it all in three days. It’s huge. B: Okay, so you’re going to get ri d of some of your extra parts. J: I hope to. B: Let’s look at some of the pictures and other documents. J: Let’s regress to Andrew Jackson. He was in Company C of the Central Florida Infantry from March to May . He was paroled April 26, 1965. B: Do you know if he got a pension or not? J: No, he didn’t live too long. He died in 1974 or or . B: I ask that because James Douglas Math eson, who fought in the Civil War, got a pension. After the Civil War, how could a Confederate get a pension? J: My granddaddy, Lawrence, got a pensi on. My wife’s uncle, Aunt Ken, got a pension. I have his papers, I think. B: Why would they give it to a Confederate? J: I don’t know, but they got a pension. There was a C onfederate Soldiers’ Home. B: I just wonder wher e the money came from. J: I don’t know but they got pensions. B: I always thought that wa s peculiar. Now, let’s go over any other records you’ve got there that you wanted to comment on. J: These are just the birth r ecords I’ve been reading to you. B: Okay, so you’ve got all this genealogy information. We’d like to get a copy of that. We can copy that if you’ll bring it dow n someday.

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Interview with Archie Jackson April 4, 2001 8 J: All right, or you can ta ke it with you. Here’s John Jackson, immigrant from England. He immigrated to Clarksburg, Virginia, in 1801. B: Okay, so they came over at the turn of the century. J: They came to America in 1748. Met on shipboard. He came to Maryland after a few years and married. Two other sons born in Maryland. Lived in northern Virginia. Revolutionary soldie rs. All this kind of stuff. B: Let’s see what else. What is this map? J: That’s just an old map of the Florid a Southern Railway, the old ACO Railroad is what it is. B: Is your land near that? J: It ran right through our land. B: But your land doesn’t show on this particular map? J: Not at that time. B: Did you all own any of this property in here? J: This is what we call the old home place right in here. You see, there’s Oliver Park, so we’re back this side. B: Sure. We’ll need a picture of that. This is some of the cattle? J: That’s up on the courthouse square. B: Yes. 4H. J: 4H judging. B: You were in that when y ou were a youngster, weren’t you? J: No, I never was. I was in FFA. That ’s taken in the 40’s. Granddaddy is right there somewhere. I have another picture here somewhere. B: Let’s take a look at yo ur other pictures and go through those, because you can always get very interesti ng information. You have some pedigree charts or genealogy charts that you are going to copy and put with this record, which I think will be very valuable. Now let’s look at some of the photographs. I think you loaned us some of these before.

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Interview with Archie Jackson April 4, 2001 9 J: Yes. You’ve got all the good stuff. This is a picture of granddaddy taken on the Kincaid Road with a Hereford bull he bought. There’s nothing important in here. B: You have a lot of pictures of the cattle , but those are interesting, too. These are the cattle that would have been butchered down there, right? J: Well, this is a short-hor n bull. My granddaddy was in the short-horn business. This picture was taken in the earl y 1900’s out there on Kincaid Road. That’s my daddy and a lady named Geraldine ____________. B: I think we’ve got a picture of that one, I believe. That’s when he was a youngster. J: Yes, he was a young kid. She lived in McIntosh. That’s my sister with a steer. She won Grand Champion at Ocala. B: That one I’m pretty sure we have, too, don’t we? J: That may have been taken in Jacks onville. He took a lo t of cattle to the Jacksonville Fair. It looks suspiciously like Paynes Prairie, but how would you get somebody with cattle around on Paynes Prairie in those days? B: That’s true. J: That’s a cattlemen’s barbecue. That’s my granddaddy. B: Okay. There is a record there “Alachua County cattlem en hold a barbecue.” Is he the one squatting down? J: Yes, he is the one squat ting down. I’ve never seen my granddaddy squat, but that is my granddaddy. Here’s another one – in 1940 – and there’s my grandfather on the right, his sister, and my grandmother. B: You’re not in here. J: No sir. I was only three y ears old then – not quite three. B: Okay, that’s probably one of the most famous pictures in your collection. J: This is the saddle I’ve been telling you about. That sa ddle was out th ere in that house. That pistol in that holster is in my gun safe. B: Those two boys are who?

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Interview with Archie Jackson April 4, 2001 10 J: That’s Archie L. Jackson and that’s McDonald – Thomas Edward McDonald, Judge Harry McDonald’s father. B: Who made that picture? Do you know anything about it? J: No sir. B: You just have it in your collection. J: That’s right. If there’s a signature on the bottom of it, I don’t know. I would have to find the original and look. B: Right. You have all that in your safe? J: It’s around here somewhere. B: That one has been shown. That’s one of the more valuable ones. Had they just come in from a cattle drive? J: They had just come in from a cattle drive down in Levy County. That was taken over behind where Parker Office Supply was. That’s what my dad said. That’s when I worked a short time for Sam Nunn in Perry, Georgia. Senator Nunn. B: Are there any other documents or photogr aphs you’ve got that we can go over? J: No, not right offhand. B: Any other things on Gainesville or Alachua County history? J: No sir. B: Do you remember when the red brick courthouse came down? J: I remember something about it, yes. B: Were you in the Sheriff’s Department by then? J: No. That was built . . . B: In 1886 and it was torn down about 1959. J: I’m sure you’ve got plenty of pictures of that. B: Yes, we’ve got one where they were building the other one and tearing the old one down beside it.

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Interview with Archie Jackson April 4, 2001 11 J: I’ve got a bunch of colored postcards of different angles of that courthouse. B: You do? We’d like to see those. Oka y, we’re going to talk about some of these postcards you’ve collected of Alachua County. Do you remember about this one right here. J: That’s over at Hogtown Creek. B: Yes, where would that bridge have been? J: Around Glen Springs I would think. B: That’s where I suspect it was. J: I suspect that was the springs either to the right or left of that bridge. B: That’s what I thought. Rather than being over West University where West University Avenue is now. Of course, Kirby-Smith that you’ve got there. That’s the school you went to. Down below that at the bottom is a pictur e of the municipal water plant. They built the new water plant around that and it is still there. They’re fixing to clean it up and use that as a little display area ________________. J: Of course, that was gone and covered over before my time. B: Let’s look at that building here for a second. You’ve got one of the old Odd Fellows on here. Is that any of the pictures of that photograph that you were showing me? J: Right here it does. B: Does it have any columns? J: There are columns, but they’re __________________ columns. B: Yes. I don’t think it’s the same building. J: I don’t think it is either. B: Lord knows where that was. I’ve never seen that building. J: This was taken just about the time that other picture was taken. I would say it’s the same day. He got the same pose, everything, the same man. The only thing different is that he had his arm linked in the other picture and a man was beside him.

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Interview with Archie Jackson April 4, 2001 12 B: This Buchholz school. That was one of the schools you went to. J: The old Gainesville High School. B: Of course, this building called the Brown Hotel is still there. It’s always interesting to me that the train stoppe d between the Brown Hotel and the White House. I guess they gave the people a choice as to where they would get their meal. J: Yes, where that Soul Train is, there was a restaurant there, the Presto Restaurant. B: Is that where that was – where the Soul Train is now? Have you got a postcard of the Presto? J: No. I do remember this. They had a chef on the side of it in blue. Now, the next block down, next to where the old Alac hua County public housing was, there was the Royal Caf. B: The next block east? J: West. It’s right next to the State Attorney’s parkin g lot. That was the Royal Caf. B: Have you ever heard of a caf called the Alachua Caf? J: Never have. B: We’ve got a cup that was dug up over at the old city ______________ that says Alachua Caf. It was real early, turn of the century. It would be before your time. J: When we were in the yard of that ol d house, the back yard was white sand. My daddy saw a piece of metal sticking up out of the ground, he dug around it and it was an old money chest, one of these old cash boxes. It was almost all gone, but in there was a key to the Astor Ho tel in Gainesville, Florida. B: The Astor Hotel? I never heard of it. J: I never heard of it. I don’t know what became of that key. When I was in the Army, my mother got smart and threw a lot of my stuff away. She threw my Confederate money away. But there was a key in that box to the Astor Hotel in Gainesville, Florida. B: Well, we’ll look at so me of the old records.

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Interview with Archie Jackson April 4, 2001 13 J: I’ve never heard it mentioned anywhere. B: No. There was the Arlington but not the Astor. J: I had my picture done at the Arlington. Bu t this was the Astor Hotel. An old big, black key. But how did it get in that back yard? B: Let’s talk about any of the intere sting experiences you had when you were growing up here. When was the last l ynching in Alachua County? That was before your time. J: That was before my time. They can’t blame that on me. B: Right. What about any other intere sting things during your school years? J: It was very quiet arou nd here in the 1950’s. Of course, we had the student upheavals out there. I know they beat Georgia Tech in and they burned a Model A Ford there at the intersection of 13th and University. When I went to school, it was very quiet. The biggest in cident we had was during the war when that section behind what is now Subway and used to be Woolworth’s blew up. The taxi cab company blew up back there. Where that parking lot is in the back there, that was buildings, and they just never built it back. That whole block burned during World War II. It was some kind of gas explosion. I can distinctly remember seeing soldiers out there guarding it. I can see him with his rifle with a bayonet on it. B: Do you remember where the Magnolia Hotel was? Where the First Union Bank is now. J: No. That was the train de pot when I was growing up. B: Well, it was right next to that. J: I don’t remember that. B: Babe Ruth stayed there. That’s the reason I know about it. We had some old papers and I read that he stayed there. J: I remember the White House was right th ere on the corner by that florist shop. I used to wash his car. There was a filli ng station where the florist shop is now and I worked there when I was about fourteen years old. B: And you washed the car for Thomas? J: People would come down from the White House Hotel.

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Interview with Archie Jackson April 4, 2001 14 B: The hotel was not where the Sun Bank is now? It was a litt le further south? J: The Gainesville House was right there on th e corner, right in the parking lot. The ______________________ is here and there is a parking lot next to it. That’s where the Gainesville House was. I thought the fellow was very aged at the time. He had a black Buick and I hated to wa sh that thing. It was hard. That’s where the Gainesville House was, right in that parking lot. B: Okay, I know where you’re talking about. We don’t ha ve any information on that either. J: That’s been gone quite some time. B: Did you know Major Thomas? J: Yes. Everybody who lived in that area came to that fil ling station. They traded there. The ____________________, the Thomases – all those people. Mary Parker McGraw, and the _____________________. Everybody that was anybody traded at the ____________________ Filling Station. That’s where I met a lot of folks and progressed on up through Baird Hardware. I got to know people that worked in Baird’s and got hired over there. B: The Pounds. J: Frank Bennett got me out of the hardware end of it into automotive. B: Frank was my next door neighbor for years, so he told me a lot about Baird Hardware. All right, did any other interesting things happen here when you were growing up or after you got grown and were in the Sheriff’s Department? J: Well, the Sheriff’s office was a very interesting experience. I met a lot of folks there. Baird Hardware wa s basically my formative years with people who worked there, specifically Joe ___________, who wa s the parts manager there in automotive. He taught me a lot. They constantly ragged me and kidded me. They would go out there and jack up my car where it wouldn’t move. Remember those tricks? I got an education there, Dr . Barrow, that I couldn’t have gotten at a college. B: About people. J: I got mad one day and flew off the ha ndle, and he said, “Let me tell you something, Archie. If people kid with you, they like you. If they don’t kid with you, they don’t like you.” I thought a bout that. A 17-year old kid, I thought about and decided he was right.

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Interview with Archie Jackson April 4, 2001 15 The Sheriff’s office was a different story. I had already formed a lot of opinions. I changed a lot of opinions about people when I went to work down there. I always tried to treat people like I wanted to be trea ted. I didn’t stand for any foolishness. If you acted like some body, I treated you like somebody. I didn’t care whether you were black, white, red or whatever. As long as you treated me right, I would treat you right. I learne d a lot about folks down there. B: And I bet you they learned that very quickly, too, didn’t they? J: They can pick up on you right quick. I ha d several instances where they pick up on you – how you hold yourself, how you deal w ith a situation. They are kind of like animals. Animals can sense when you’re afraid, and people can sense it, also. B: Absolutely, no question about it. J: It was a very interesting experience. I ne ver got hurt. I was very fortunate in that. I never hurt anybody. I never had to shoot anybody. I never had to injure anyone. The biggest thing I ever got was a scratc h on my little finger out on the interstate tussling with a suspect. I was very fortunate. I had a great career. B: How did you get interested in the histor y of your family and the area, collecting these things that you’ve collected? J: Well, we had an aunt who came to live w ith us in the early 60’s before we moved over here. She was my grandmother’s si ster. She used to take care of the whooping owl. She was quite a character. She never married, but she hunted cows in the woods. I’ve got her history somewhere. B: What was her name? J: Leila Jones. Aunt Lea. She had a lot of this type furniture and a lot of antiques, and that’s where I got interested in anti ques and history. By reading her history and what she had done. Here she is a la dy hunting cows in the woods. She must have been a character. B: She was a cattle woman. She didn’t mind getting out there and hustling. J: In fact, she thought she was going to marry my granddaddy, but he married her sister. There was always kind of a rivalry there. B: A little bit of a bad feeling? Now, tell me about your foreman again. Give me the story on that. J: My granddaddy had a black individual named Sam Johnson who worked for him. He made him farm manager.

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Interview with Archie Jackson April 4, 2001 16 B: How many were working on the farm? J: Probably 15 or 20 people. He put him in charge of the farm, which angered one of my granddaddy’s brothers who was worki ng out there so he left and went to Texas. They branched off into a group of people named Streeter. They would go out occasionally and see these folks, but they never came back to Florida. They never made ___________________. I know that Granddaddy had gone out there a couple times. In fact, Granddaddy Jacks on brought the first Hereford cattle to Florida I think in 1904. He went out to Texas and bought it. B: Did he bring it here by rail? J: He brought it back by rail. B: So he was raising Herefords then. J: Right. B: Well, I think we’ve covered pretty much everything. Anything else you want to cover? J: No, I think that’s it. B: Do you like living in Gainesville and Alachua County? J: I’ve always said I wouldn’ t live anywhere else, Dr. Ba rrow, but I have seen so many changes and some I think are for the worst. The community has become so liberal and I am a conservative indivi dual. The community has become so crowded. B: Crowded is a big problem. J: I won’t go on the west side of this county after three o’clock _________________. This is my home. I’ve only found one place I’d like to live more, and I couldn’t live there during the winter and that’s Montana. I like it out in Montana and Wyoming. As far as pe ople go, I think you can’t beat Alachua County. B: I agree with you there. J: Times change, and as John Wayne said, “They generally change for the best.” But times are changing. I’m an antique. B: I guess I am, too. Fortunately, the Prairi e is saved as it was and will always be as it was. That’s sort of nice.

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Interview with Archie Jackson April 4, 2001 17 J: You haven’t lived until you ride from one side to the other on a horse. It will take you all day! I have done it. B: On the canals or just through the middle. J: Right through the middle of it. Of course, this was years ago. I saw some things happen out there. Airplanes crashed out there during the war. B: They have horse rides out there occas ionally, but I missed the one they had a couple years ago. Rangers ta ke people out there across a good part of it. Have you ever done that overnight campout? Th ere is one where they walk from the Sink to Persimmon Point and camp out. Ther e is no water. There’s an outhouse. Persimmon Point overlooks the Prairie. It’s beautiful. Have you been there? J: Many times. B: It’s a beautiful place. J: The lore and the legend around the area wa s that there was a wagon train attacked there by the Indians and they buried th eir valuables and stuck a gun barrel down where they buried them and they never found it. That’s just a legend. It was told in my family for years. It’s just like out here. Bruce ______________, an old-timer out here, told my daddy there used to be a Seminole Indian fort just east of our house up here. I know there was one right outside our kitchen window because we dug stuff out of it. I have a 1842 dime, crystal balls, cannon balls. B: Do you know which fort it was? J: Fort Crane. Several years ago some individuals from Tampa came up here with maps. They would fly around taking infrar ed pictures. They said, “We want to excavate Fort Crane.” I said Fort Cr ane is over here on 234. The state has designated it. They had si gns over there then. “Oh no, it’s right here in your daddy’s pasture.” They went out there and began to dig. The fi rst thing they dug up was a cannonball, about a six pounder. Then they dug up the old watches where you had to wind them. They had an ______________________ for infantry and a horse rearing with one foot up on the other. I have it; it’s in here in my collection. There was an 1842 dime, which dates the fort. There were crystal balls out there. They dug up hundreds of crystal balls. They said this was where Fort Crane was. B: There are a lot of those forts that they’ve misplaced. J: As I said, they took infrared pictures fr om airplanes and they said this was where it was.

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Interview with Archie Jackson April 4, 2001 18 B: Now, this was in your father’s house near here? J: Half a mile up there. Right outside th ere is where we kept the bulls during the off-season. We called it the bull pasture. They said it was ri ght out here in my daddy’s bull pasture. It st ands to reason. It’s the highest point of ground around here, not very high, but it was open and high. But Bruce _________________ said it was a little east of the house and there was a pond with a bluff, not a very high bluff, but it’s high enough so you can see what’s going on around you. B: What fort was it? J: He never said. B: He said there was another one there? J: Governor Perry’s house used to sit where this house sits. The stagecoach trail is still in my front yard. B: Right out here? J: Right out there between the house and the cedar tree. There are routes and you can go out up to _________________ where he used to live and look south toward Micanopy and you can see where it went out. The opening is still in the trees where the stagecoach went out and went down to what was called Stagecoach Pond right down here at Oak Ridge Cemetery. That’s where they changed horses. B: Where was Perry’s house? J: Right here where we’re sitting right he re. He had another house up there in the field next to the railroad, and I’ve got one of the buttons off of his coat. I found it with a metal detector. It’s got crossed cannons and South Carolina. It’s one of those big coat buttons. It had to be his. That was another one of the Perry houses. They call that the Sally Perry house. B: Is it still there? J: No, it’s been torn down for years. I have some of the bricks out of the chimney in my yard out here. The steps were still there. I would go out there with a metal detector and I found two or three Indian head pennies out there in the plowed field. I found that button. I would love to find a trash pile. B: I’m sure it’s around there. J: Those boys from Tampa went out there with Spanish needles and metal detectors and they have never found it. I’ve dug up numerous artifacts around this yard

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Interview with Archie Jackson April 4, 2001 19 here. My daughter found a 1905 nickel down here beside a tree. She found a Florida Southern Railway badge that she found that comes off a conductor’s hat. It says Florida Southern Railway, Ba dge 1302. It’s in perfect condition. B: Was there a railway through here? J: This was the same one. It just beca me ACL after Florida Southern Railway. I think Florida Southern went out in 1895. B: I think you’re right. So th is is a very historic area. J: Oh yes. Where we’re sitting is actually Colderville. It went back in here across 234 back in those woods over there. Roche lle is just outside my fence there. B: So Colderville is on the east side and Rochelle is on the west side. J: I can’t claim residence for Rochelle. I’m in Colderville. B: I don’t believe I ever heard of Colderville. J: It’s on the maps. B: On the old maps. Wa s there a post office here? J: The post office was probably Rochelle. It was right over here just about a little over a quarter mile across the street here. B: So Colderville started on this side. J: Right about that fence. You see, my road by my fence down there is a section line. It goes all the way up to my dad’ s house right through the middle of it. B: The stagecoach ran from where? From Rochelle? J: Wherever it went to. B: Ocala, Micanopy? J: They claim they changed horses down at Oak Ridge Cemetery. There’s a pond behind the cemetery. They call it Stageco ach Pond. That’s what my daddy called it. They changed horses there, according to him. B: Then they probably went to either Micanopy or Ocala. J: I think this was kind of a restaurant stop. The house was only torn down in the 40’s. Hogan over here said it was a big thing.

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Interview with Archie Jackson April 4, 2001 20 B: The Perry house. Did it sort of rot away? J: Just sort of rotted, so they tore it do wn. He helped Sinclair tear it down when Sinclair bought the property. B: Do you know about this little church over there by the Rochelle school? There is a little church there. Did you ev er go there when it was active? J: No. _____________________________ years, and it wasn’t active then. B: It’s a beautiful church. J: Yes. You ought to go down to the schoolhouse. B: I’ve been there. J: The music is still on the board. The musi c that the teacher put on for that class is still on the blackboard over there. B: I know. J: Wallace gave me a desk out of there. B: Yes, he gave one to Sa ra. We have _____________________________. He still owns that. We’re hoping someday he doesn’t just give it away or throw it away. Maybe he would give it to the Matheson. J: I saw Wallace this morning. B: Whereabouts? J: In the barber shop. B: Is he doing all right? J: He seemed to be better. B: We need to do an oral history on him. Marinus Latour is going to help us. J: Don’t wait too long. He can tell you a lot. B: Yes. J: My aunt down in McInto sh can tell you a lot. She’s getting very, very aged, though. They’re going to be gone.

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Interview with Archie Jackson April 4, 2001 21 B: I know. That’s why we need to do it. It’s not too early to do them. J: I would love to have been able to talk with my great-granddaddy. B: Yes, wouldn’t that be wonderful. J: Oh, the tales he to ld that my daddy told me of some of the things that went on. He told a tale, and I know for a fact that the wagon was there when I was a child out at Haile Plantation where that little cemetery is down there. There were pieces of wagon around that cemetery, a nd I asked him about that wagon. My daddy laughed and said, “There was a man that worked down there who had a horse and wagon. He was coming through th ere one night and he had a dog that rode in the wagon with him. When the dog would get tired, he would get up in the wagon. He was coming along at dark one afternoon and th at dog jumped up in the wagon __________________________________ and that horse or mule or whatever ran away and hit a tree out there and scatte red that wagon all over that cemetery.” All I can tell you is what my daddy told me. He hit a tree and tore that wagon all to pieces. I’ve heard him tell that and laugh about it. B: Did you ever hear the story around here of the ___________________. Was that when you were growing up? J: I never heard of that. B: There was this old folklore story around the Prairie and in central Florida about a furry animal with _________________________ like a ________________. J: I never heard that tale. Now there were panthers he re when I was a kid. There was one that came through on that Prairie regularly. We used to fox hunt down there and wildcat hunt on the Prairie with hounds, and that thing would scream. The dogs would leave. They would go home! B: They didn’t like that sound. J: No, I never heard a tale of a ___________________. B: I’ve read something in the paper. I just talked to some old-timers and none of them know anything about it, so I don’t think it was true. You were born and raised on the Prairie. J: I was born and raised on the Pr airie. I never heard that tale. B: Okay, well, I think we’ve pretty well c overed everything. We’ ll get this typed. We may have to do a bit of editing where we got blocked off, but we can fill that in later. I am going to go ahead and stop now.