Citation
Interview with Allen Moughon, 2014 July 14

Material Information

Title:
Interview with Allen Moughon, 2014 July 14
Creator:
Moughon, Allen ( Interviewee )
Taylor, Jessica ( Interviewer )
Publisher:
Samuel Proctor Oral History Program
Publication Date:
Language:
English
Physical Description:
Oral history interview

Subjects

Subjects / Keywords:
Tidewater Main Street Development Project
Family history
Rural life
Education
Sports
Spatial Coverage:
United States of America -- Virginia -- Mathews

Notes

Abstract:
Allen Moughon talks about his family history in Mathews, dating back to the 1800s. He discusses what Mathews County was like during the depression and the role the WPA (Works Progress Administration) played within the community. He also talks about his different experiences fishing, going to college, and coaching in Mathews County. Mr. Moughon also shares his insight into dealing with the integration process and the challenges it presented as a principal in Middlesex County, as well as touching upon the differences in integration between Gloucester and Mathews County. He talks about the challenges he faced when purchasing a hardware store and how business has changed since then. Finally, he talks about the future of Mathews County and the importance of preserving the community as it is, rather than changing it into something else.
General Note:
To access audio version of this interview, click the Downloads tab at the top of the page.

Record Information

Source Institution:
UF Samuel Proctor Oral History Program
Holding Location:
UF Samuel Proctor Oral History Program
Rights Management:
Made available under a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 4.0 International license: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/.
Resource Identifier:
TMP 036 Allen Moughon 7-14-2014 ( SPOHP )

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The Foundation for The Gator Nation An Equal Opportunity Institution Samuel Proctor Oral History Program College of Liberal Arts and Sciences Program Director : Dr. Paul Ortiz Office Manager : Tamarra Jenkins 241 Pugh Hall Digital Humanities Coordinator : Deborah Hendrix PO Box 115215 Gainesville, FL 32611 352 392 7168 35 2 846 1983 Fax The Samuel Proctor Oral History Program (SPOHP) was founded by Dr. Samuel Proctor at the University of Florida in 1967. Its original projects were collections centered around Florida history with the purpose of preserving eyewitness acc ounts of economic, social, political, religious and intellectual life in Florida and the South. In the 45 years since its inception, SPOHP has collected over 5,000 interviews in its archives. Transcribed interviews are available through SPOHP for use by research scholars, students, journalists, and other interested groups. Material is frequently used for theses, dissertations, articles, books, documentaries, museum displays, and a variety of other public uses. As standard oral history practice dictates, S POHP recommends that researchers refer to both the transcript and audio of an interview when conducting their work. A selection of interviews are available online here through the UF Digital Collections and the UF Smathers Library system. Suggested corrections to transcripts will be reviewed and processed on a case by case basis. Oral history int erview t ranscripts available on the UF Digital Collections may be in draft or final format. SPOHP transcribers create interview transcripts by listen ing to the ori ginal oral history interview recording and typing a verbatim d ocument of it. The transcript i s written with careful attention to reflect original grammar and word choice of each interviewee; s ubjective or editorial changes are not made to their speech. The draft trans cript can also later undergo a final edit to ensure accuracy in spelling and form at I nterviewees can also provide their own spelli ng corrections SPOHP transcribers refer to the Merriam program specific transcribing style guide, accessible For more information abo ut SPOHP, visit http://oral.history.ufl.edu or call the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program office at 352 392 7168. May 2015

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TMP 036 Interviewee: Allen Moughon Interviewer: Jessica Taylor Date: July 14, 2014 T: This is Jessica Taylor interviewing Allen Moughon in Mathews Courthouse, Virginia on July 14, 2014 at 2:15 PM. Mr. Moughon, can you please state your full name? M: Allen Stephens Moughon. T: Okay, and where were you born? M: In Mathews, Virginia. T: When were you born? M: I was born in 1931. T: M: My father was a carpenter and his name was Fred Moughon and my mother was Thelma Moughon. T: And where were they from? M: Mathews. T: Okay. How far c an you trace your family back? M: Well, we have the family tree and we can go back to the 1800s. T: Okay. So what are your earliest memories of Mathews County? M: had jobs, I guess I was about seven years old and I can recall my grandfather taking me up to what is now Mathews High School. And the high school was built

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TMP 036; Moughon; Page 2 by the Public Works W.P.A., and at that time, very few people had jobs. Of course, the saying goes that if it w then we had a couple of canals that were dug in the lower part of the county. my earliest memory. T: How else did the W.P.A. shape Mathews here? M: How did it shape Mathews? T: Were there other projects? M: Well, at that time, and in just about every county around here, the W.P.A built schools and all of them if you were to look at them they look the same. And it was the same plan in many counties around here. So, and then things begin to T: Mm hm. Do you remember what it was like for adults to work for the W.P.A. when you were a child? M: headed this project up and brought a few people in, but most of them were local people. And several local contractors worked also. T: Okay. So which school was your el ementary school? M: We had New Point Elementary School in the lower part of the county. We had Cobbs Creek, upper part of the county, and we had Gwynns Island. And before that we had several other smaller ones: one in Mobjack area.

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TMP 036; Moughon; Page 3 T: Which one did you go to? M: I went to Winter Harbor, which is in the lower part of the county, and Lee Jackson, which has been torn down, and the new courthouse was built on that project. T: What do you remember about Winter Harbor? M: Well, it was a three room schoolhouse, grades one, two, three. And then we moved up to Lee Jackson in the fourth. Fourth through seventh, and I went up to Mathews High School in the eighth grade, and that was the first year that the twelfth grade was added to the requirements of schooling. T: M: And I graduated in 1950. T: 1950. Okay. What are your memories of the high school building when you were in high school? What did the interior look like? M: Well, very much like it does today, except the gym is where the media center is Of course, I came back to Mathews and coached there. So, I have a lot of fond gym and auditorium. So if we had five hundred people to come to a program in the evening, I was responsible to set up five hundred chairs for that program. for the next T: So what was the house that you grew up in like?

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TMP 036; Moughon; Page 4 M: ng about five hundred yards to become the kitchen. Before that, we had a separate kitchen that was separate from the house, which in those days, that was typical. Of course, there was no electricity. Two ice cutters actually, three ice cutters in Mathews, and they would deliver ice all over the county. T: So you said that an old er building was moved onto your property? M: Right, and joined t o the main building. T: Where did you get that building from? The smaller one? M: T: So how old was the bigger house? M: Oh, golly. Probably a hundred yea rs old. T: Okay. Is it still there now? M: No. Torn down. T: Okay. You tore it down. M: well, I helped to move the one building and then we left and I helped my father died when I was seven years old of appendicitis, and I hel ped my stepfather my mother was married six or seven years later we cut took it to the sawmill, sawed the lumber up, and then we built a new home out of the lumber.

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TMP 036; Moughon; Page 5 T: What was it like to maintain an old house compared to the new house? M: have electricity to worry about. So you had to take care of the roof and the outside. I can remember the first time w paint; we used whitewash. [Laughter] Yeah. But it was white and it looked nice. In later years when paint came out, why, we scraped the old whitewash off and painted the house. T: father or your stepfather that was a carpenter? M: Well actually, my grandfather and my father, and then my stepfather worked at Newport News Shipyard for probably fifteen years, and then he helped my grandfather he was a contractor, actually, a builder. A nd I helped him also in two years in high school actually, more than that in high school and then came back from college and I helped him again. So I learned the plumbing trade, the electrical trade, and the carpenter trade. My senior year in high school, I went into the fishing business with three other guys. So I had a taste of the fishing industry which, as you know, is just about gone now. We have very few T: Why did you decide to go into that with your friends? M: and I helped him to fish crab pots. The fishing industry back then was great. The four of us, we made good money wholesaling, which is a process of fishing. Then

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TMP 036; Moughon; Page 6 I remember my senior year I had a football and baseball scholarship offered to me one from V.M.I., one from Salem College in West Virginia and I had a great decision to make, that was to sell out. We were making a lot of money. A nd at the last minute, I think two days before I was supposed to report for football practice, I decided to leave and sell out my share of the business and go to college. Best thing I ever did. But anyway. T: Who was the man who was like a father to you? M : Warren Trusch, T r u s c h. T: M: Okay. He was a waterman. I have a nice painting in my office of him done by Jane Park, one of our local artists. T: self? M: Well, he lived next doo r and he would take me fishing, and taught me how to play baseball until I got into high school. Just he was in the Merchant Marine then on a ship. When he would come home, I would be over there waiting for him. I stayed wit h him until he returned to sea. Just a great guy. T: M: Well, it was great. Of course, we had an excellent coach in Ken Brown. He started football at Mathews High School. I played on the first high school football team that we had. Football and baseball and basketball were the three main sports back in those da

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TMP 036; Moughon; Page 7 T: Do any moments from games stick out to you from high school? M: Well, winning the first football ga me there since we were the first team. [Laughter] I can remember that. We won six to zero. It was against Chuckatuck over in the southern part of the state. So I remember that. And I remember going and we took showers outside with a homemade shower. A two hundred and fifty gallon drum of water and the water came out of there in the pipe, and [Laughter] we were under it. Of course, the sky was up above and we could see it. But anyway, it was wet and felt good. T: What was the play that won it? M: Well, I tak touchdown pass. A boy by the name of David Smith caught it . I remember that. T: What was the crowd like? M: over there. It was in the late, late evening. But you have to keep in mind back in those baseball in the summer, semi pro team on Saturday afternoons and Sunday afternoons; the pl came home from college, we had three Major Le ague Baseball players who were stationed at Fort Eustis. A fellow hired them to come over and play with us, so I

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TMP 036; Moughon; Page 8 had that opportunity to learn a lot from them. One of them was Vern Law, who pitched for the Pittsburgh Pirates. Another was Rudy Minarcin ; he played for Cincinnati. They played Gloucester most of the time. But anyway, that was a good experience for me. I learned a lot because it helped me not o nly when I was playing in college, but in the coaching field when I came back to Mathews in later years. T: I forgot that you were part of the first football team! What was it like developing the team as far as recruitment and school spirit and even the f ield itself? M: [Laughter] It was great. We got our first uniforms by five or six of us standing on to buy the uniforms. You get one uniform, and that one uniform lasted you ab out ten years. [Laughter] So that was great. Getting the boys to come out for football was a little difficult because, you know, it was a contact sport, a little different from basketball or baseball. We had a large number of kids out and worked out great. T: So how were you chosen to be part of the first team? M: Well, I just wanted to play. [Laughter] M: I wanted to try. And I made it, so. [Laughter] T: you take?

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TMP 036; Moughon; Page 9 M: I too k the one at Salem College. I went up to V.M.I., and stayed three days and was offered the scholarship. But back then, when you went to V.M.I., you ended up second lieutenant in the army. That war was coming on, so I decided to go to Salem instead, which I met my wife, who also coached with me in college. Then I went from there out to Arizona in the army, and was a high speed radio operator in Morse code. And then I returned from the Army. My first year of coaching was at York High School over in Yorktown, and we had some fine teams over there. I was head baseball and basketball coach and also coached football. So that particular end of that year, my high school coach, Ken Brown, decided he was going up as principal. He was offered that job, so he just kept after me till I came over to Mathews as coach. So I coached there for seven years, I think, and then was hired over in Middlesex County as principal of Middlesex High School. Stayed there for seven years as principal. During that time, we totally integrate d the schools for the first time. That was difficult. A great education, because we did a lot of our homework after school, spent many hours preparing for it. And it paid off because we had very few problems. It was great dealing with the community, parent principal of both the black and white society and I learned a lot from that also. Then I went up as the assistant superintendent for three years. We had Essex and Middlesex County then. So then one of my friends who followed me in high school had this store Sutton and Klein. Sutton and Klein owned the store and Mr. Klein worried me to death to he was ready to retire, tried to sell the busi ness. I was sort of tired of education then; I really enjoyed coaching,

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TMP 036; Moughon; Page 10 probabl y and principalship more than being in the central office because I was constantly working on federal projects and the budget. And I lost contact with the the education is all about. And I mi ssed that a great deal. So I bought this business in 1972 and then my wife taught English at the high school, and she came here as our bookkeeper about five or six years later. Then my son finished G.M.U. and he worked for Ace in Harrisonburg for a year. A nd then came home one weekend, ever since; forty come and go in Mathews, and some things I like, some things I m ay not like too T: take you back to school teaching. M: Okay. T: So why did you decide to go back to coaching? M: back fr om coaching from the principalship. T: Okay. M: You mean after working all those years? T: No, when you were at Salem College. You said your wife coached with you? M: Oh, she coached with me at Mathews High School. T: Okay.

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TMP 036; Moughon; Page 11 M: We met at Salem Colle ge. T: Oh, okay. So what made you decide to go into coaching? M: Well, I just enjoyed sports so much, I guess was the main thing. I just loved to work with people, and met some great guys in a lot of us at Salem in coaching. I was glad I did because very rewarding and I enjoyed it a great deal. We had some great kids here at Mathews in sports that you know, they come in every turn around and look, say, were you a coach? [Laughter] M: So it sort of makes you feel good. T: Yeah, absolutely. What was it like to coach at Mathews having played there? M: parents tha t I knew from being in the county previously, and they were great parents. But parents back in those days respected teachers, and they worked with me tremendously. It was just unbelievable. If a kid had a problem, I could work with me. In the long run, the child would in to Z. I probably would remain in coaching. But the thing of it is in coaching, to move up, to make additional money, you have to move so much. We enjoyed Mathews a great deal. My wife and I decided when we were married that we [Laughter] things

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TMP 036; Moughon; Page 12 was glad to come here also and has enjoyed it ever since. T: Do any moments from games or moments working with students stick out to you from your years coaching? M: Oh, yea h. We can reminisce a lot about that. [Laughter] I had one boy that called recall some of the games. Well, when they remodeled the high school, for some reason, all those films were destroyed. I guess they figured they were too old, so t locate one for him. can find them. He called me, he said, I found one film and that was of the Verona game, which is a school in Richmond much the last shot of the game. He said, Dale Garrett was the one that took the shot. N o one expected for him it was the play we worked out. And Dale was a great kid, and he passed away I think four years ago. Now they have a golf tournament that T: Yeah. M: And we won a lot of championships. We were runner up in the state basketball, which was the first team to do that. I had two airplane pilot s from that team and about seven or eight of them went to college, and all of them turned out good.

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TMP 036; Moughon; Page 13 T: Which sport is the largest challenge to coach? M: injury. You know, your best quarterback can be injured, then you have to prepare everything real quickly and turn things around. So probably football more so than the others. Basketball can take its toll on you the specta conditioned back in those days, and from that standpoint and it was longer, or it seemed like it was longer. But all of them I enjoyed a great deal. One year, I had eighty five boys out for football, and I coached the J. V. team and the varsity and played separate schedules. One year I can recall having make any difference, plus coached. I think I made three hundred dollars for coaching all those sports. And the Lee Jack son principal came down Martin Diggs great guy from the community, great historian, did a lot with the Mathews Historical Society came down to me, said, Allen, I need help. I said, Martin, in basketball. He says, my teachers are too old to go out in the wintertime, because we lunch a them. So, I did. T: [Interruption in interview.]

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TMP 036; Moughon; Page 14 T: This is Jessica Taylor resuming with Allen Moughon. So, I wanted to ask you: what was the greatest moment of your career coaching at Mathews? M: Well probably, even though we lost by five points, I believe it was, going to the state basketball tournament. We were runner up. Back in those days, we played Gloucester, James Blair, those schools th at were much larger than we were. That year we lost the first game of the season, and won eighteen straight. We lost it to James Blair; that was the only school in Williamsburg. Now they have, I think, five high schools. We went to state tournament and we beat them later in the year. We beat York that year, Poquoson, just about all those school s. Even though we lost, as I said it was a great group of kids. All of Mathews was there; always remember when we got back to Mathews that particular night of course, we stayed overnight, played several games before that particular game the people that turned out that evening unbelievable. They ha remember that. That was great. T: Do you remember any plays from that particular game? M: Yes. We changed defense, I guess. At the half, we were leading by six points, I think it was. We changed defense and Stacey Hammond, a fine boy we were working him [inaudible 29:17] and he had three straight fouls called on him for went out and that was the key p oint. I look back and probably I had as much to

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TMP 036; Moughon; Page 15 do with losing as any of the kids, but we played a great game. We beat some nice teams that night. [Inaudible 29:49] T: you knew in the middle [19]50s tha t integration was coming. M: Oh, yes. T: What were your thoughts when Brown v. Board came out? M: Well, of course, Mr. Brown, my high school principal, was superintendent at New Kent and he went all the way to the Supreme Court. See, we had Freedom of Choice there for a while I forget how many years and that was supposed to integrate schools. Well, Mat hews, before I went to Middlesex, we had one black student that came up in the eighth grade. Nice little kid. That worked out fine, and I take my hat off to the boy because it was difficult for him But we made it. So when I went over to Middlesex, we had of course, the federal government went ahead with a court order. We had to integrate under court order. That was difficult because they sent monitors down from Philadelphia to check to see if we were meeting our objectives to accomplish integration fast enough. I remember one day going into the cafeteria and the kids were fine. I mean, the football team black, white, whatever sit together, no p roblem whatsoever. And the monitors when they left I had a list of things that we were to do. One of them asked, Mr. Moughon, what are you going to do about the cafeteria? I said, well, what do you want to do? What am I

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TMP 036; Moughon; Page 16 supposed to do? He said, when we w alk in there, we want to see black, white, black, white, black, white. I said, you mean that those kids all they stayed there a week there, they had a good time. One day, you may see that. The nex t day, maybe other choice I guess except to assign seats to them. Is that right? Well, yes, d seats for one day after they left; then we went on and got along fine. T: [Laughter] Do you remember anything else about the monitors that they sent down? M: Well other things: seats on buses, main thing. Then, we had to . probably the most difficul t thing was to hire teachers . was to hire black teachers. When enough black teachers so we had to hire them regardless of our thinking of their ability to teach and so forth So, that was difficult for us But we managed and got through it. Looking back over the situation, I think that we can say that the communities are better, the kids are getting along fine. I had more problems with parents than I did students . we wou ld have to sign if you try to cut out bus want a black student to wait for the bus. [Laughter] Their situation. So you had those situations but we worked them out and we expecte d that. But we worked very hard and did a lot of reading on things that had been done in other areas,

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TMP 036; Moughon; Page 17 better so far as we were concerned. T: I was going to ask you how you knew wha t to expect. What other areas did you read about? M: Well, we hired a real fine professor from U.V.A. for all of our schools in the area, from Fredericksburg to Northern Neck to Gloucester and so forth who had excellent experience. He had done a lot of res earch on it and so forth. There were books out that helped and so forth. I think that one of the greatest sentences I can remember reading was, remember now: you have to be principal it worked out I was satisfied. So, that was the main thing. T: You mentioned one boy in Mathews who was the one that integrated under Freedom of Choice. You said that was hard for him. M: It was difficult, yes. In all the classes and gym and so forth, I had to be the field and in the dressing room both at the same time for his protection. But it worked out good. He was a bright little fella and I knew his parents. After the first three or four weeks, people accepted him. So probably he did a great deal in helping us integrate because of his ability, too. And his parents. So how he was chosen, I t T: Okay. What was his name, do you know?

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TMP 036; Moughon; Page 18 M: Robert Blake. T: Robert Blake. Does he still live here? M: restaurant up at Ward s Corner for a while. He was a very nice kid, did a very it. T: Just generally, not just integration, how was handling Middlesex different than your experience coaching in Mat hews? M: and being in administration. I guess the greatest thing particularly as principal I would jot down everything I needed to do for the next day on notes on my desk items to go over. See Mrs. Jones for coming up you had to take care of. First day of school, I remember it was the year before integration when they integrated in Richmond, we ended up having one lady that had thirty seve n in third grade. I had elementary and high school the year before we integrated; then we had all high school students when we integrated. But she took those thirty seven students and did a beautiful job. But, change bus schedules around, we had to change teachers around. So those things pop up all the time. So a lot

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TMP 036; Moughon; Page 19 gritty of working with teachers to help them progress, or students either to day problems that y ou have all the T: Yeah. Absolutely. M: T: What were some big changes in education that you saw, from coaching in Mathews until you decided to open this store in [19]71? M: time for integration to settle down and work out and so f notice a great deal in the community and so forth. Of course, in Middlesex we had about fifty fifty in racial. In Mathews I think it was about twenty five blacks to seventy five whites. So the ratio there was different, but that wasn see too much difference in integration cause it. T: Okay. So what was the point where you decided that you were done with education? M: What was the point? children who, I guess, had a little confidence in me, and get them to go to school,

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TMP 036; Moughon; Page 20 school. By the way, the first day of school for a principal is the most difficult thing there is, because you think you ha ve everything all ready to go and you get to school. About three buses will break down, and the first grade kids miss the bus, [Laughter] But somehow you manage to get over it and i T: I guess let me rephrase that. Why did you decide to leave and buy this store? M: Oh, well, I think that I believe I told you earlier working with kids probably is my first choice, and I enjoyed that. When I moved up to centra l office, I was to do finances for the county, I might as well do them for myself. This was a good business and the economy was pretty good and I took a chance. Financially better off. Of course, financ e is not everything all the time, because like I said if I coaching much better now, I must admit. And they have about five coaches for foot ball now, and, well, I had one. And I had more students out, so you can figure it out. They offered me back then, we had Essex and Middlesex, and the state came out with a law that you had to have separate superintendents in each county. Well, my boss, Walter Har row who was a great superintendent and a great guy, he hired me from Mathews as principal to follow him. He decided to go to Essex, and the school board chairman offered the job to you as superintendent. I just decided that, well, as I go up the ladder, I lose

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TMP 036; Moughon; Page 21 money if the school board sees fit for me to be. Of course, before this c ame out, Mr. Klein had already talked to me a great deal about buying the business. So, about hardware of course, we have Southern States as well as Ace Hardware franch ises that, I had a good background. Plus, in college I was an industrial arts minor so that was right down my alley also. So that was the biggest thing. So I guess I got a little tired of administration. T: So when you bought this, immediately what were the initial challenges and community responses to you coming in and replacing Klein? M: [Laughter] Well, I guess a lot of people wanted to know why I did it and so forth. I told them the sa me thing. Of course, Mr. Klein, he was a great track man. He went to the track, he went all over the world running. He wanted to do that; that which back then I believe was s eventy five. I may be wrong about the age, but anyway. So, his ambition was to do that; Mr. Sutton had another year before he for a while about it and finally Mr. Sutton deci ded employment until he retired that he would go along. And he did and I gave it to him. I gave him in writing that I would employ him, and he stayed eighteen years not fulltime, in his later years. One or two days a week, that type thing. Real nice, great guy, really, to work with. I really enjoyed it. I knew that we had a good staff here of people. We did outside work; we did work putting siding on

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TMP 036; Moughon; Page 22 almost all churches in the county. We built additions and this type thing. I enjoyed that part of it That was right down my line also. Enjoyed that. T: So how have you seen the Mathews business community change since 1971? M: and two trucks out eve ry day with feed, fertilizer, to homes in the community. Just about everyone had probably five acres. They had a garden, they had chickens, they had hogs, they had everything to eat, so forth. We would fill the warehouse with fertilizer in the spring durin g the winter months, and now we will sell about gardening and so forth, I think about one or two farmers is about all we have. just about gone. It picked up a little bit this year because of the economy; prices of food are higher. You know, the economy is not what it h as been by a long from all walks of life, and great people; I enjoy them a great deal. I learn a lot from them but the box stores. They tell me because we work hard on helping them here, and When I was in the army I think I told you I was a high speed radio operator in Morse code I would sit on the Mexican border at night and copy the A.P. in Morse code to keep my speed up. One evening, I was copying A.P. and it came over: in Mathews,

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TMP 036; Moughon; Page 23 Virginia, the retirement commu nity of Chesapeake Bay, seventy percent of the population is over sixty five years old. And I started thinking about that. I said, going to happen to the community and the business? A great deal has happened items here that people need, whereas a lot of the new stores going into business the restaurants, the craft stores and so forth when times get tough, they can cut eating, they can cut out ve come up with a lot of suggestions and so forth, but when one of the large boxes came in over in Gloucester, that hurt a lot community. Young kids are graduating, going to college, and leavin g the ing, which tells me people who moved into the county as to why they moved here. I ask them. They look at me sometimes when I ask them that question like, well, what business is

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TMP 036; Moughon; Page 24 it of yours? But after you get talking to them a while, you can get them to answer Mathews. They like the people, their neighbors. Where they came from, they someone to work on your boats. Men move for fishing; the ladies move because the men want to go, I guess. [Laughter] Sometimes I have people come in and say, Allen, you get to see the yacht club one great one, working in community clubs is another one, and churches: great asset. So I says, you have to get your wife involved in some of exampl e, you can go to the yacht club on Friday night and you can meet people from every state in the Union; you can meet them from all walks of life. You can unbelievable the people that great asset of the community, is the club work in the community and giving back. People enjoy giving back to the community. T: Is your son going to take over once you retire? M: n over now. My wife and I try to take off on Wednesday think, three or four months one time. I always come back because of personnel. Personnel now, is a problem everywhere and getting good people and keeping

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TMP 036; Moughon; Page 25 them and so forth is a big problem. Work habits have changed a great deal, probably more so or as much as anything else over the years. Just ask anyone about that. In education parents, their attitudes towards schools T: M: it in some of our gr greatest asset we have as I see it know, we have yacht clubs yacht club. They have the Islander over here in Mathews at one time; that was things that we try actually, the last three or four years, the sport fishing has We had fishing supplies here and probably true. catching fish. They claim because of the cold winter last year God, I can we had cold w was the case because right after that, the greatest fishing days were right after the cold spell. Anyway, I can remember seeing the Chesapeake Bay frozen all over. It was a cold winter.

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TMP 036; Moughon; Page 26 T: M: places. The developers are developing communities all the time, and business community. People just constantly move around, and rightfully so. Everyone e all kinds of surveys. The economy right now has everything on a hold, and most businesses, their sales are down. People just hold onto the money . Taxpayers are griping about through countries, a lot of them are in bad shape, worse shape than we are. I just hope that we have foresight enough both the national government and states to really look ahead a nd work on some things rather than changing the name of the Washington Redskins in Congress and so forth too many problems to solve without wrestling with something like that. Of course, [Laughter] T: This is about your opinions. So, do you live on the land that you were brought up on? M: No, I was brought up the lower part of the county. When I moved back here from York County, I found one place to rent. That was owned by a naval captain, so

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TMP 036; Moughon; Page 27 my wife and I opportunities when I was coaching to go back to my hometown, Salem College. Had several in the western part of the state, one in North Carolina to become an T: So beyond the hardware store, what other places in Mathews are important to you or special? M: That are important? Oh, golly. Oh, well, church. Central Methodist T: M: The one behind the courthouse, behind the fire department. We try to support I work with Ruritan Club a great takes, as one of our projects, one football game and we sell ads to the program for I think this is the forty fourth year. W e have the Ruritan Bowl, then take the money, turn it back into scholarships for kids and other community fire department, rescue squads, and things of this type. To be frank with you, the store keeps me busy. It keeps us busy. Today, I took fifteen minute s for lunch, I took fifteen minutes Saturday for lunch, and I was interrupted three or four times then. We go pretty hard in the summertime. People coming down really will help our business and the community of Mathews. Retail probably doubles in the summe Over at the school, I

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TMP 036; Moughon; Page 28 tried to s upport it as much as possible. All of them. We constantly present prizes to them and so forth, fundraising and so forth, all this type thing. T: questions. Did you want to add anything? M: I know the historical society has worked a great deal over the years. I think and I enjoy them all, and anything of that nature to preserve our history of the community is great. Fort many people in the community who have interests like this, and this is o ne great, They want things to do and they can get out and work on these projects. Community working together makes a good community. Going back to education, I read a book once by [inaudible 1:03:38] on the high school of today. I forget when it was written; I think [19]57. His comment was well, he wanted high schools that would be around eight hundred. Then you could group kids for teaching and that worked fine until integration came along. Then we had to delete that from our system. But he said, you show me a good athletic good sports program. You show me a good school, l show you a good community. and talk here. Oh God, one t ime we had six or seven who returned back to

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TMP 036; Moughon; Page 29 about it. T: Okay. [End of interview] Transcribed by: Jessica Taylor, December 18, 2014 Audit edited by: Austyn Szempruch, January 8 2015 Final edited by: Jessica Taylor