Interview with John Bateman, 2014 July 13

Material Information

Interview with John Bateman, 2014 July 13
Bateman, John ( Interviewee )
Bateman, Pat ( Interviewee )
Taylor, Jessica ( Interviewer )
Samuel Proctor Oral History Program
Publication Date:
Physical Description:
Oral history interview


Subjects / Keywords:
Tidewater Main Street Development Project
Rural life
World War II
Spatial Coverage:
United States of America -- Virginia -- Mathews


John Bateman talks about his experiences in the Navy as a pilot and his eighteen month service in the South Pacific during World War II. He also discusses his post-war experiences flying for Pan-Am and his career as a commercial pilot. John and his wife, Pat, share how they met, living in Baltimore and New York, and how they found their way to Mathews. Pat talks about their family history and owning Hick’s Wharf. John also talks about his experience as president of the Mathews Historical Society and the role it plays within the community. He also discusses how the community and fishing industry has changed over time.
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To access audio version of this interview, click the Downloads tab at the top of the page.

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UF Samuel Proctor Oral History Program
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UF Samuel Proctor Oral History Program
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Made available under a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 4.0 International license:
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TMP 033 John Bateman 7-13-2014 ( SPOHP )


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The Foundation for The Gator Nation An Equal Opportunity Institution Samuel Proctor Oral History Program College of Liberal Arts and Sciences Program Director : Dr. Paul Ortiz Office Manager : Tamarra Jenkins 241 Pugh Hall Digital Humanities Coordinator : Deborah Hendrix PO Box 115215 Gainesville, FL 32611 352 392 7168 35 2 846 1983 Fax The Samuel Proctor Oral History Program (SPOHP) was founded by Dr. Samuel Proctor at the University of Florida in 1967. Its original projects were collections centered around Florida history with the purpose of preserving eyewitness acc ounts of economic, social, political, religious and intellectual life in Florida and the South. In the 45 years since its inception, SPOHP has collected over 5,000 interviews in its archives. Transcribed interviews are available through SPOHP for use by research scholars, students, journalists, and other interested groups. Material is frequently used for theses, dissertations, articles, books, documentaries, museum displays, and a variety of other public uses. As standard oral history practice dictates, S POHP recommends that researchers refer to both the transcript and audio of an interview when conducting their work. A selection of interviews are available online here through the UF Digital Collections and the UF Smathers Library system. Suggested corrections to transcripts will be reviewed and processed on a case by case basis. Oral history int erview t ranscripts available on the UF Digital Collections may be in draft or final format. SPOHP transcribers create interview transcripts by listen ing to the ori ginal oral history interview recording and typing a verbatim d ocument of it. The transcript i s written with careful attention to reflect original grammar and word choice of each interviewee; s ubjective or editorial changes are not made to their speech. The draft trans cript can also later undergo a final edit to ensure accuracy in spelling and form at I nterviewees can also provide their own spelli ng corrections SPOHP transcribers refer to the Merriam program specific transcribing style guide, accessible For more information abo ut SPOHP, visit or call the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program office at 352 392 7168. May 2015


TMP 033 Interviewee: John Bateman Interviewer: Jessica Taylor July 13, 2014 T: This is Jessica Taylor interviewing John Bateman on July 13, 2014 at 12:10 P.M. in Port Haywood, Virginia. Mr. Bateman, can you please state your full name? J B: John William Bateman. T: Okay, and when were you born? J B: May the thirty first, 1919. T: J B: My father was in the insurance business. That was Percy A. Bateman. My mother was Maude Callis Bateman. T: Okay. Callis. Is that a name from around here? J B: Yes, her grandfather was born here. She w as born in Middlesex. T: Okay, and where were you born? J B: Baltimore. T: Baltimore. So where did you grow up? J B: In Baltimore. T: In Baltimore. J B: Went to school there. T: Okay. So how long did you live in Baltimore for? J B: Well, until I left for the n avy, which was in 1941. T: J B: Yes. T: Okay. Did you want to talk about that a little bit?


TMP 033; Bateman; Page 2 J B: Well, I went in the navy as a pilot at Corpus Christi, Texas. And then from there I went to Hawaii, was there for several months t ill I got in a P.B .Y. squadron which was transferred down to the South Pacific. Was in the South Pacific for about T: Did you see any action while you were in the South Pacific? Obvious question. J B: sea rescue. enemy. T: Anything stick out about your air and sea rescue missions? J B: No, actually. It was only about two or three of those that I had anything to do now. But nothing that would stand out. T: m guessing that your experience as a pilot in the war influenced your career after. J B: Well, yeah, after I finished, the war was over. I applied for employment with Pan t work out on the first attempt there, so when we went to Baltimore and lived there for a while, I went and worked for the Glenn L. Martin Company, aircraft manufacturers. I was a draftsman engineer I eventually got a letter from Pan Am that they would em ploy me. So I went down to Miami, Florida, Am. T: Wow. Where in Florida? JB: Miami. Our flights were mostly to South A merica. That was where their rou t e s went.


TMP 033; Bateman; Page 3 T: Do you remember where you were or what it was li ke when you learned that the war was over? JB: Pretty happy about it, I guess. T: Where were you? JB: Well, in Alameda, California. Naval Air Station. T: Mm hm. What was the celebration like? JB: PB: Can I ta lk? T: Sure. PB: whic h was a long walk. He was mad [Laughter] because I was so long getting Alameda. There was this bi g tube that you had to go from Oakland in through this tube, and then into Alameda. It was a long walk. So, I mean, there was a lot of celebration going on. T: PB: California. T: So how did you two meet?


TMP 033; Bateman; Page 4 JB: Hotel in Oakland. And they put on dances how we met. PB: In fact, a little thing: it was August the 28 th 194 . JB: Four. PB: Four. And we bought this house and signed the papers for it August the 28 th T: PB: right here in Mathews. Love it. T: Did you get married in California? PB: Mm hm. JB: Yes. T: Yeah? What was your wedding like? I know weddings were different during the wartime period. PB: I made my own wedding dress. T: You did? PB: with family and some people from the navy, and neighbors. That was it. I mean, it T: What did you make your own wedding dress out of? PB: White satin, cost eighteen dollars. And my mother was furious because I spent so much money.


TMP 033; Bateman; Page 5 [Laughter] PB: But you have to realize, in those days, I worked at the Wells Fargo Bank and I made sixty five dollars a m onth. T: Wow. Yeah. PB: But then it cost well, gasoline was fourteen cents a gallon, and to go from Oakland to San Francisco on a train, it was twenty one cents. Or going from where I lived in Oakland into work in Oakland, it was seven cents. Prices have just gone up since those days. T: Yeah, wow. So where did you settle after getting married and after leaving the navy? JB: s. Then I was transferred from there to the same branch of Pan Am. They had a base in Miami, they had one in San Francisco, and then in New York. Those bases, you could move from one to the other depending on where they needed you. So I was transferred to New Puerto Rico to New York and back to Miami. Well, the company thought it was more efficient to be based in New York by New York Puerto Rico, which is what I did for a number where we raised our family. T: What was it like moving to New York from your entire lives, it seems like.


TMP 033; Bateman; Page 6 JB: Well, in New York 922 Levittown on Long Islan T: What was that like? Because that was a new concept at the time? PB: Well, it was any transportation like we have today going into Levittown. But there was a man who had a big van and it w as a grocery store. And he would come through there once or twice a week and you would go out and buy your groceries, whatever you needed from him. Then you had milk delivery, which they would deliver your interesting. The children were They were not in school there, so that was easy. JB: Rent was fifty dollars a month . T: Sounds nice now. [Laughter] JB: Yeah, you could buy the house for about four thousand dollars. If you can believe it, the same house well, actually, the houses have been remodeled over the years, and the house that we lived in, you would never recognize it. It was just a small . PB: Two bedroom. JB: Two bedroom, living roo m, kitchen.


TMP 033; Bateman; Page 7 PB: But it did have a washer and dryer. It had a Bendi x washer, which was great, because otherwise you had to go to the laundromat or something to wash T: Was Levittown a good place to ra ise kids? PB: today. But yeah, it was very nice. Everybody was friendly. T: Mm hm. What was it like raising children during the Cold War? PB: That was, when was that? I think we were living in New York during the era, and I mean, it was all right. We never had any problems with our children in school or other children. JB: when I grew up and wh when I was growing up, there were more kids around to play with. We had enough to have baseball teams and football teams, things like that, where are kids, the sports they played were part of the s chool activity, not make up games that they played on sandlots that they did when I grew up. So that part was different. T: Do you see that as kind of a loss between generations or something that JB: think they d T: [Laughter] Yeah. Okay. I wanted to ask you some questions specifically about PB: We belong and he was the president at one time. T: Of the historical society?


TMP 033; Bateman; Page 8 JB: Yes. T: Oh, wow! No wond er you were on the list. So your family right? were from Mat hews ? JB: her sister were b orn, in Middlesex. T: Why did he move to Middlesex, do you know? JB: Well, they bought a farm there. They had a plantation, seven hundred acre farm. And they opened post office named S e You pass by the entrance to the road that goes to S amos That was the post office that my grandfather started. And it had a store and it was right at the end of their lane that came from their house. My grandfather was born to Mathews is through his father, my great association with Mathews ended, when he moved away from here. T: Okay Did you know your great grandfather or your grandfather? JB: Grandfather I knew. My great grandfather was long gone when I came along. T: When was your grandfather born? JB: PB: book in the library in Mathews on him. T:


TMP 033; Bateman; Page 9 PB: T: I understand. JB: I have a book upstairs of my genealogy. T: Oh, okay. Okay. JB: And that has all that information in it. PB: Want me to get it? T: So what was he like as a person? JB: Who? T: Your grandfather. JB: him. See, he lived in Virginia; we lived in Baltimore. And when he was getting near the end of age he was really sick most of the time he visited us, stayed for about two or three weeks. Was hard to handle, so at her house. We lived not too far apart, probably five or six miles between our houses. She took care of him as T: Mm hm. By hard to handle, do you mean in like the old codger way? JB: Yeah, that sort of thing. He was set in his ways, yeah. T: Can you help me understand what that means? JB: then they would have an argument about it. So that was the kind of association. T: Okay. What did he do for a living? JB: He was a farmer.


TMP 033; Bateman; Page 10 T: He was a farmer? What did he farm? JB: Corn or whatever. T: Okay, and he did that in Mathews as well? JB: No, no. Nothing to do with Mathews. That was in Middlesex. That w as the part of the estate that was left. T: Did he buy that estate in Middlesex? JB: No, it was left to him by his father. My great grandfather owned the seven hundred acres, and when he died, he divided the property up into four. He had four children, and each one of the children got some of the property. My eighty or so acres of ground, where the other children got part of that. T: Okay. So your great grandfather lived in Math ews, right? JB: Came from Mathews. He was born here, and when he grew up, was old enough to move, he moved to Middlesex and bought an estate there with seven hundred acres. T: Okay, and he was a farmer, too. JB: Yes. T: Okay. JB: That and ran the post office. T: He ran the post office. What were you told about your great grandfather? JB: Not too much. T: No?


TMP 033; Bateman; Page 11 JB: her sister after he died and left the property, my grandfathe r . what did he they have the oyster festival? Urbanna. T: Urbanna, okay. JB: died; she was fort y years old when she died of tuberculosis. So my grandfather was not able to take care of these two girls, so my grandmother had a family the James family and Captain Charles James was a merchant m ar in e r captain, steamship. And he lived in Baltimore. So he took the girls to Baltimore to live h of these schools in Virginia in those days. So my mother and her sister my Aunt May lived with their uncle in Baltimore. T: Do you know why they didn JB: neighborhood, you like the school system, or you T: Fair enough. Were you ever, as a child or growing up, told anything about Mathews or the Callis family that your parents or grandparents wanted you to know? JB: I guess about the only thing I know that I was told was by my mother, who was interes


TMP 033; Bateman; Page 12 business. They own this property all through here. The house across the road was the main house of the Williams family that was living here. I used to visit that when I was a child. My mother would come down here to visit her cousins, and happens that we moved in this house tha visited as a child. PB: And his relatives from there thought he was a little devil, because he was running up and down the stairs in the house. [Laughter] T: Well, can you tell me a little bit about when you used to come visit? JB: go out and play by myself in the yard. The families just would get together to talk a kid people to play with here. So . nothing much I could say about my life. On a visit here, nothing stands out. T: Okay. How did it look different than it does now? W illiams Wharf? JB: the house being here. PB: JB: The house that was here burned down eventually. This is the new house that was built in the [19]30s. So when I was v


TMP 033; Bateman; Page 13 T: it about how anything about it change over time? Either since you visited or since you moved here, even? JB: my wings from the navy, I went up back home from Corpus Christi. I went to Baltimore and I had two weeks off. And so when I got home, my mother and father and I came down to Mi here in Mathews. But there was a number of families in Middlesex that they wanted to see. They wanted to show me off, too, in my uniform. T: [Laughter] Were you impressive? JB: T: [Laughter] Okay. Okay. JB: Just an ensign is all I was. T: JB: T: Sorry to hear that. Did they get over it? JB: Not much they could do. T: [Laughter] Fair enough.


TMP 033; Bateman; Page 14 JB: When I retired, my mother said that she was really thankful for that. She was g lad I retired. T: JB: But she always liked to addr ess her letters to me with T: I like that. JB: PB: JB: Yeah, they f lew from New York to Europe. PB: They were scared to death. I remember his father getting on the airplane. He JB: It was a white knuckle ride for him. PB: He was hanging back. [Laughter] JB: Yeah. PB: Can I add something? His moth er and father owned War II, right across the river there. JB: Yeah. PB: JB: You see the boathouse, the white house to the right of that boathouse over there, my mother and father owned that. PB: And his mother was in the antique business in Gloucester during World War II and then after. When you drive in to Gloucester from here, and you get in, there was this old gas station here and there was a laundromat, and there was this real


TMP 033; Bateman; Page 15 estate building here. Well, they built that and that was an antique place. They lived upstairs, and I remember when she sold that, in the [19]50s sometime I think. Was it [19]60s? JB: Yes. PB: It was in the early [19]60s, and then she retired from the antique business. J B: They moved out of the PB: They moved to Richmond. JB: building there in Gloucester and moved to Richmond. He was in Richmond in an apartment there when my father died. PB: We used to come down and visit with them, and I know we stayed over at the Wharf. T: one? PB: Mm hm. T: How old is it, do you know? PB: Well, that was an old farmhouse. In fact, when we came down here right after World War II to visit, there was no electricity at all there. It was candlelight yeah, they had one indoor bathroom. That was all. Just the one bathroom. They had that put in because JB: Actually, my mother was instrumental in getting electricity put in there. T: Oh, really?


TMP 033; Bateman; Page 16 JB: Yeah. T: Why did she decide to do that? JB: T: I understand that. JB: Yeah. T: Do you remember anything about the interior that strikes you now? PB: About what? T: PB: That house over there? Oh, I just remember JB: They had fireplaces PB: You had a fireplace in every ro om. JB: Every room had a fireplace. That was the only way you could heat the place. There was no central heating. PB: And I remember the kitchen. His older brother and his wife were back there. This any children, and we were on our way up to New York. And I had never been to New York, and so I wanted to iron press all my clothes so I would look nice. There was no electricity, so they had to start the fire on the stove and they put the old flat iron o n that. T: Wow. PB: My sister in law made . there, as I say, it was just you cooked on that stove. You had the firing going, and they had an oven and she made brownies. I


TMP 033; Bateman; Page 17 T: coming here and seeing where your hu PB: York City. [Laughter] I was, what? Twenty one or twenty interested in things. But I do remember later when we had, I thin k, one of the children and we came in, his mother wanted to shop. There was A&P in Mathews years and years ago where the Food Lion is. We came in to shop at that A&P, Department Store where. Where the y put that big thing on the side of the building now. Well, that Mr. Sibley was also a relative of hers. I mean, those are things that I just I know when we first bought this house in 1980, we had the windows and they had the iron weights in the windows. You store to buy the cord. That was the only place you could ge t it. So, those are the things I remember about early Mathews. T: PB: Well, and then after, too, we first moved here which was 1980, I forget Mr. Wednesday afternoon, they always closed the store, took the afternoon off. T: Any reason, or just that was their


TMP 033; Bateman; Page 18 PB: That was the thing they did during World War II, I think. I think the navy bases JB: The military had a holiday on most Wednesdays. PB: Yeah, Wednesday afternoon. T: So they closed it, too. PB: Mm hm. Yeah. T: Hm. This is perfect. Are there any other anecdotes that you can help with me when it comes to Mathews Courthouse or Williams Wharf, anywhere else in Mathews? Just experiences that s tick out in your mind? JB: Well, some of the things that have changed when we first came down here, the oystermen would be down here in their boats with tongs getting oysters. You could almost walk from one boat to the other to get across the river. There were just so many boats getting oysters. We could go out with a bushel basket; I could go walk along the shore and pick up oysters, take a bushel on up to New York. When we first got this house, it really needed remodeling. We would come down and spend a w eek or two working on the house and then go back to New York. T: How do you feel about it? JB: disease that killed the oysters. Just too bad that happened. I understand that


TMP 033; Bateman; Page 19 T: Maybe. I me an, even in the last thirty years, where you sort of have incorporated Mathews Courthouse more into your lives, how has that changed in the last thirty years, or the landscape changed in the last thirty years? JB: uch. Our place has changed because we had two trees taken down: one maple tree and one oak tree here. there. Big oak tree. That rotted in the mi ddle, became dangerous to be u p, and then we had so many branches die and had them trimmed that it looked like the looking tree anymore, and the center of it was rotted out. So those were cut down. Then we had another big elm tree that was out in the front, huge, probably four feet in diameter. That blew over in a storm. We have photos of that, of the tree over. That had to be cut up. So that part of from these trees whi ch go into the swimming pool PB: Well, as far as talking about the town of Mathews, a lot of different stores have I gone. She died. There just seem to be so many different people that stores there and fixin of course, the book store is


TMP 033; Bateman; Page 20 JB: I think the biggest change is that more people that we knew have died. Population, in a sense, has changed that way. PB: Well, Catherine Brook I sew, and I make doll clothes and sell buy needles today, or thread. I h ave to go to Gloucester. When we first moved here, there was a five and dime where between the library and the bank, that was a five and dime. And then, as I say, Catherine Brooks had a store across the street from that which was fabrics. Of mean, for a lot of things you still have to go down to Gloucester. T: Mm has not. What has that been like? Do you want it to be a Gloucester? PB: I like it as it is. I like it no st oplights at all. Of course, there are some times when T: PB: Mm, I think so. T: Why is that? PB: New York, we lived in a small town, too, but we were not involved. Like here we


TMP 033; Bateman; Page 21 have been involved in the historical society and t things. I think that has a lot to do with it. T: Okay. I wanted to ask you about your time with the historical society. Why did you decide to get involved with that? JB: related to the families. So that was part of it, enjoying the society. The first book they put out, Tombstones when it was published we set up a mailing system to sell the book outside the county. We were pretty successful in doing that. I was asked to get on the board of directo rs at one time, which I accepted. I forget who was the president at the time Bill Tompkins, I think he was the president. But he oh, actually, I was vice president under him. So when he left because of illness, I became president, i nherited the job. Then when the time came for reelection, I T: Okay. JB: She was hard to get along with. T: Okay. So JB: president, and there


TMP 033; Bateman; Page 22 actually. The disputes that went on with her, she quit, and I became president T: [Laughter] Okay. Like a George Washington of sorts. JB: Mm hm. T: While you were president, what was the role of the historical society in the larger Mathews community? JB: Actually, outs was there was thoughts of it being closed down and not being in existence. I forget the lady that I talked into becoming president . I forget her name. T: JB: But anyways, she took over and that was about the end of my association with running of it. T: Okay. So why is family history important to you? JB: . I like to know where I came from. I like to know how my ancestors were. So, family history is more or less just genealogy. Not many people know who their great grandfather was, or even beyond that. T: I know? JB: Well in some cases, because of my research into their lives to find out who they were, they were pretty good famil y, they go back to the Revolutionary War. Every single one of them was a


TMP 033; Bateman; Page 23 were just successful pe genealogy. T: JB: if I found another small town somewhere, I could live in it and probably learn about it. Mathews is interesting to me because I have roots here, even th ough live without. T: Okay. JB: Yeah. T: Did you want to add to that at all? PB: T: Sa ys the city girl. PB: if I lived in New York City or something like that, I would think I was a city girl. T: Okay, I like that. So are there any anecdotes, maybe from your earlier t ime here PB:


TMP 033; Bateman; Page 24 T: Are holidays here special or are there any traditions or even ghost stories and folk tales that you could share? PB: JB: Well, the ghost story that I PB: JB: It occurred to my mother and father. They lived in Baltimore, and my oldest the Barnum & Bailey Circus was in town in Baltimore. They lived in Baltimore in the northwest section. And they took him to the circus and they got back home did, and they put my bro ther to bed. Then they went to their bedroom and my mother had a brooch that a cousin had given her. She was taking it off of her dress when it broke in half, which disturbed her a little bit. Had to have that repaired. Well after that happened, they were in their bedroom, they were getting ready for bed, and heard something sounded like somebody coming up the stairs, second floor. They thought a burglar was in the house, so they closed the bedroom door and locked it. Then they heard the steps stop by thei r door, and their bathroom was right next to their bedroom. They heard what they thought was the light switch going on. Heard it click. So they had a neighbor that lived not far from them. My father got on the telephone and called him and said, I think the the bathroom, stop by their door, and then they went down the stairs. That was


TMP 033; Bateman; Page 25 the last they heard of it. My father thought, well, he was gonna check. He had a straight razor. He got a hold of that; that was his weapon. So he went out the bedroom door, down the stairs, checked all the doors, windows. Everything was ut. So they went to bed, having doorbell rang, and there was Western Union with a telegram. It said that this cousin that had given her the brooch had died that evening around t T: really interesting! JB: The cousin was from Mathews. T: county lines. That was really n PB: JB: No. T: Wow. JB: Yeah, that was a long time ago. That was when my oldest brother was around three years old, four years old. T: Wow. So you heard it from your parents, then? JB: T: right? JB: told the story. T: Okay.


TMP 033; Bateman; Page 26 JB: Yeah, I always remember that. T: And you can tell a ghost story, too! [Laughter] I think my last question feel free to tell me anything you want to tell me you represent sort of this generation of people that have seen a lot o not. Is there anything that you would want future Mathews generations to know about your generation and what you experienced here? Any advice that you could give them? JB: about how people should behave or do anything. Not gonna go around the county and preach. T: JB: T: Okay. PB: Just study a T: [Laughter] Fair enough. Is there anything you would want people in Mathews to know about you or your family? JB: t lifetime Lowell Thomas. Have you ever heard of Lowell Thomas? T: Mm mm. JB: T:


TMP 033; Bateman; Page 27 JB: Well, he was in World War I, he was a war correspondent. After the war, he had a radio show that was every evening. It was Lowell Thomas and he would talk about the news, like Tom Brokaw and people like that. Well, one of his jobs was in World War I, he went to Saudi him, I guess, Lawrence of Arabia. Well, Lowell Thomas traveled with T.E. Lawrence on some of his escapades and wrote about it. And he wrote a book in w Lawrence of upstairs, printed in 1923. Lowell Thomas sent it me. How did I know Lowell Thomas? Well, have you e ver heard of a movie called Cine rama ? Okay. [Laughter] T: Sorry. JB: You need a little education. T: I guess so. I guess so. [Laughter] JB: Well, a movie was made called Cinerama Lowell Thomas was the head of this movie, was the producer. He had a company set up to find the ancient Seven Wonders of the World. To do that he hired Pan Am, leased an airplane from Pan Am to take the camera crew to all these places that they thought the Seven Wonders of the World were located. And I was a co pilot on that flight. It lasted for about how many months? PB: About six, I think. J B: About six months. Then we flew al l over Africa and Europe. Lowell Thomas wrote a book on it, and I kept sort of a diary of it. I wrote that up. I have those upstairs.


TMP 033; Bateman; Page 28 So Lowell Thomas was on the flight on some of the legs that we went. We went to one of from Saudi Arabia. Everybody got a watch, if they wanted one. They had pocket watches and wrist watches The representative of the king came into the hotel twenty or thirty watches that the crew of the airplane were offered, and I picked this one. T: Wow. JB: We had lunch with th is king. We had a script girl on the flight who was the Thomas. T: Wow. JB: When they finishe d the movie, we got an invitation to go and see the preview before it was shown to the public. That was in New York in one of the theaters where they there were three cameras, took pictures in three dimension s: one, two, and three, to give a wide name Gloria Te tzlaff she married a maintenance guy of the cameras since we traveled together for so long an amount of time. But anywa know Lowell. His son was the governor of Alaska at one time. T:


TMP 033; Bateman; Page 29 JB: Well, he looked like an Arab . He was a heavyset gentleman. In my books upstairs, I have the book I wrote, Around th e World He was depicted in Life Magazine could describe him other than a Middle Eastern look. T: Okay. Wow. JB: So, I have more. There are other stories about my Pan American experience more than I have about Mathews, actually. T: Yeah! Tell me whatever you want to tell me. JB: ever heard of Cardinal Mindszenty He was a prisoner of the Nazis during World War II. When he was released, he took a flight from Europe to the United States on Pan Am. He was on one plane, and on our plane coming into New York together at the same time. Of course, after we landed and the planes were parked, the and they all went to see Mindszenty to interview him. Then they heard Robert Kennedy was on the other plane, so they were running back and forth between the two planes to try to get both stories, which I thought was kind of interesting and funny. T: What year was that? JB: it was before Robert Kennedy was going to be he was still the lieutenant . PB: Attorney General? JB: Attorney General, yeah. He was Attorney Genera l, which was kind of interesting, too. They were supposed to fly tourist class as an official rather than first class.


TMP 033; Bateman; Page 30 Well, as soon as he got on the airplane he decided he wanted get on the first class section. So he contacted the stewardess and said that some kid in the airplane was making too much noise and he had some paperwork to do. He quiet. I was co pilot then. The captain said okay. You let him do that. I thought tha t was stand tell ing There were a number of airplanes that I was a pilot of, or co pilot, that ha d people who were well known passengers. But none that the name comes to mind right now. T: PB: No. T: Do you feel good with me shutting it off? JB: Yeah, no, not much more I could tell you T: Okay. Thank you. [End of interview] Transcribed by: Jessica Taylor, December 21, 2014 Audit e dited by: Kyle Bridge, January 14, 2015 Final edited by: Jessica Taylor


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