Reorganisation of the public service: three speeches


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Reorganisation of the public service: three speeches
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131 p. ;22 cm.
Williams, Eric Eustace


General Note:
Trinidad and Tobago Economic conditions. EducationTrinidad and Tobago. Nationalism Trinidad and Tobago.

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UF Latin American Collections
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University of Florida
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oclc - 03081409
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Full Text

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Feorganisation of the Public Service

Ihree Speeches






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Speech by the Prime Minister, Dr. the Rt
Hon. Eric Williams at Woodford Square,
Tuesday, 26th October, 1965.

Mr. Chairman, members of the Cabinet, members of the
General Council and Legislative Group of the P.N.M., party mem-
bers, ladies and gentlemen:
INE years ago today, around midday, the first P.N.M. Cabinet,
after the formal opening of Parliament by the Governor,
came here to the University of Woodford Square on October 26th
1956, and pledged publicly that we would work individually
and -collectively for the benefit of the people of Trinidad and
Tobago (loud cheers). And I think it is a very happy coincidence
that we have selected tonight, October 26th, nine years later
to discuss with you here in the University of Woodford Square
one of our most important assignments as a Cabinet in the nine
years !during which we have had the responsibility for organis-
ing and developing Trinidad and Tobago.
As the Party Chairman has indicated, I am going to try
to give you some comprehensive idea of the exercise which we
have called the Reorganisation of the Public Service, and in the
course of that I shall deal, as extensively as time will allow
me to deal, with the various issues that have arisen in connec-
tion with the Education Act.
Working Parties Established
When we got into power in 1956 we encountered what was
then called a regrading of the Civil Service that had taken
place a couple of years before, and shortly after we assumed
the respoasibil&y for running the country, there was another
of these regradings, as they were. called-I think it was :1958-
and ;then, possibly about two years later, we had another one
initiated by ourselves, where the one in 1958 had "een indew-
taken in consultation with someone that we had brouAght n
from the United Kingdom. Apparent we s-tll did :et t. w

the picture right and it became clear to us, clearer and clearer
as we went along, that what we had to try to deal with was
the entire Public Service of Trinidad and Tobago, and that what
principally was wrong was that the Service, the Public Service,
\was not properly classified.
We called in this time an American firm with some experi-
ence in the field of classification of Public Service employees
to assist us, seeking to relate such compensation as might be
agreed to the classification or, if you like, the reclassification
of the Public Service. The first effort at that was not particularly
successful and eventually the Cabinet instructed the Prime
Minister to call in representatives of all the associations of
Government employees I mean monthly paid Government
employees, that is to say the Civil Service Association, the Police
Association, the Gazetted Officers' Association, the Teachers'
Union-to discuss with them a different approach to the whole
-question. The approach involved the establishment of joint work-
ing parties as we called them, the one on the Civil Service
having representatives.
(Senator Donald Pierre. Minister of Education and Culture,
arrived at this stage and the Prime Minister said: I did not know
our dictator was coming tonight! (Lauglhter). Since they have be-
gun calling him a dictator I saed to myself, boy, I had better keep
close to Mr. Dictator, and I have -been going round the place
with him, sheltering). (More laughter).

To continue, ladies and gentlemen-.. the new approach
that we formulated and we put to the associations involved,
was that we should establish joint working parties to consider
the entire question of the role of these different services, the
Civil Service, the Police Service, the Teaching Service in the
age of independence, and then ultimately that was extended
to what we call the Statutory Boards like the Electricity Com-
mission or the Port Authority and so on. All the associations
welcomed this initiative which was taken by the Government
in February of last year, shortly before I went to Africa. And
the reports from these working parties on which the Govern-
ment was represented by senior civil servants, the top civil ser-
vants in the country, some of whom have since passed on to
higher responsibilities, the reports began to come in from about
September or October, 1964, and2 think we got the last one
about May or June of 1965.
Those reports were quite valuable-the one on the Teaching
Service particularly valuable; but it would appear as if the Gov-
ernment's ideas and intentions had not been fully understood
or perhaps fully appreciated. The reports tended, to concentrate
on compensation, that is to say "pay," and no attempt was made.
or little attempt was made, to classify the different services, and

above all no attempt was made to reorganise the services on
the basis of the view expressed that reorganisation was a very
long and tedious and cumbersome exercise' and would take many

The Cabinet disagreed with that view. We thought that the
reorganisation in certain respects would have to be done as the
working parties anticipated, that is to say, sending the Organi-
sation and Methods Division of the Ministry of Finance to check
up on the establishment: what -was needed, whether you
needed to revise existing arrangements, did you need to move
staff from one section of the Ministry to another section of the
Ministry, and so on.

But we felt that notwithstanding that point of view there
were certain basic principles and policies which needed to be
formulated in the context of a total reappraisal of what we had
inherited from the colonia' regime. And in any case it was neces-
sary for the Cabinet, thinking from the start of the Public Ser-
vice, to see not the Civil Service as the working party on the
Civil Service did-I do not mean this as a criticism, they were
asked to see the Civil Service and they saw the Civil Service,
and the Teaching Service Working Party was asked to see the
Teaching Service and saw the Teaching Service. We -felt that
it was necessary for the Cabinet, the policy-making body
of the country, to consider all the Services, to seek to integrate
them as far as possible and as best as possible into one single
Public Service in respect of the classification of that Service
and therefore the compensation which should be associated with
that classification. And in that general framework we undertook
to consider also the basic reorganisation of the Public Service,
confident that it would not take as long as the working parties

So ever since December last year, towards the latter part of
December, after Christmas, a Cabinet committee of which the
Prime Minister has been Chairman, appointed by the Cabinet,
has been working on this entire exercise within the context of
the classification proposals of the American firm and the reports
prepared by the working parties jointly comprising senior civil
servants and representatives of the associations of employees-
the different reports they had put up to us on the Civil Service,
the Teaching Service, the Police Service and the Statutory
Boards. It has been, perhaps, the hardest exercise that members
of the Cabinet have ever undertaken in their lives. Steady, con-
stant, rigorous work, day after day sometimes; especially in the
last two to three months when we have reached so far in our
appraisal of the whole situation that we have been able to get
the thoughts down on paper in draft bills, in draft regulations
which we have put out for public comment.

Principal Problem Encountered
And I think what I ought to tell you as the University
of Woodford Square, and this mass meeting of citizens, probably
drawn from all walks of life, but almost certainly including
civil servants, including teachers, including policemen, including
employees of Statutory Boards I think perhaps it would be
impossible to discuss this entire question of the reorganisation
of the Public Service if I did not draw your attention, without
anticipating Cabinet decisions ultimately, to some of the prin-
cipal problems that we have encountered and some of the prin-
cipal considerations that have been involved in this exercise.
I will be brief but I think that it is only in this sense that one
can understand what it was we were trying to achieve in respect
of the Education Act and the Education Regulations, understand
what the Party Chairman has referred to as the misrepresent
tion to which that Act and Regulations have been exposed.
We tried in the first place to -;,looking at the different
Services (all public, they are paid out of public funds and
they do work that is designed in one way or another to promote
and develop the country's interest)-we sought to correlate res-
ponsibilities and salaries. You try to define what is the respon-
sibility of a particular post and then that would determine
the class or the range in which that officer would be put,
and that would determine further the salary to be attached to
that post within the limit of the resources available to the Gov-
ernment and people of Trinidad and Tobago.
Within that general framework, the correlation of respon-
sibilities and salaries, we paid particular attention to the qbues-
tion of academic, professional and technical qualifications and
the injustice to which certain categories of public servants or
certain individual public officers have been exposed over the
years, partly because as everybody in this audience would under-
stand, in the colonial regime what mattered least of all was
qualifications. One has only to recall the picture of a Director
of Education in Trinidad and Tobago, without the slightest pre-
tence even to a qualification to teach in an advanced primary
school, being inflicted on this society and setting a standard
which unfortunately had continued to confuse the teaching pro-
fession for the last 40 or 45 years.
This is a particular problem in a place like the Ministry
of Agriculture in Trinidad and Tobago today-one of the key
ministries in the development programme-where, believe it or
not, ladies and gentlemen, there are senior bfficers-that is to
say officers fully qualified with the essential university training
which they have carried to higher levels in the form of ad-
vanced research degrees-who were being paid a salary that was
less than what a lot of less qualified civil servants, and some less
*qualified, in the academic sense, teachers, are getting today in
Trinidad and Tobago.

That would not happen in a university. For example the
University in which I taught for. several years. I went partiou-
larly into a grade, a grade which was reserved for people who
had done an advanced research degree and got the doctor's de-
gree-nobody could be promoted to that grade who had not got
a doctorate. And then after a certain time one was promoted
to a higher rank if one's probationary period proved to be satis-
factory; and in the course of that second contract with the
University your contribution to the field of learning in the form
of published books, articles, your general contribution to civic
education in the field of discussions with learned societies or
professional organizations, public lectures, your broad contact
with people working in smaller organizations that were perhaps
not national in character, all those things were taken into account
to decide whether an associate professor would move up to the
rank of professor.
This is not what happened here to our young people who
have a tremendous amount of training. And in days when the
Government's policy is free secondary education for your child-
ren, the children who otherwise would not be getting it, they
can proceed at the College at St. Augustine of the University
of the West Indies with free tuition to qualify for a university
degree. And where the particular subject or discipline is not
developed at St. Augustine or at Mona in Jamaica,. we send them
abroad at Government expense in order to produce these techni-
cians and professional people that we require and which we now
have to import from outside.
We felt that we could not possibly continue a policy of free
secondary education, free university education, large numbers
of scholarships, on the basis of this present-day depreciation
of the very university degrees that we are trying to see that
your children qualify for.'So we paid particular attention to the
question of university qualifications-that would mean the legal
field, that would mean economics, that would mean medicine
and dentistry. That would mean engineering, that would mean
architecture, that would mean the fields which are perhaps not
strictly university but may relate to professional institutions such
as accountancy and so on.
Discrimination Against Primary
School Teacher
And when we looked at this particular the teach-
ing field the first thing that struck us-I am not suggesting that.
you, my friends here, would be in any way surprised at this,
you probably know it but we are looking through the Service
class by class, post by post, discipline by discipline-, what was
immediately obvious was the rank discrimination against -the
primary school teacher in relation to the man who taught in a
secondary school The persons in the audience who are related
in nme way or another to primary school teachers-either be-
cause they are primary school teachers themselves or the spouses

of primary school teachers or because they are the fathers or
perhaps the children of primary school teachers-would under-
stand the heritage with which the primary school teacher in
1965 has to struggle.
All this was taking place in the Ministry of Education-or
is taking place-which shows the most hopeless conglomeration
and proliferation of all sorts of posts and all sorts of terminology
and all sorts of salaries. You go and pile this upon that, you
deal with this in an ad hoc manner, all growing up all over the
years. When we once got down to this question of classifying-
and therefore compensating the Ministry of Education, the
hopeless picture that it presented, stood out as one of. the greatest
and most indefensible anomalies that has been allowed to grow
up over the years in Trinidad and Tobago.

Again, referring to the Ministry of Education, they know-
but one knows in other fields, medicine sometimes,-they know
the importance (and this became essential when we tried to
classify on the basis of qualification so that we could proceed
to compensate) they know the importance of an evaluation of
the different universities degrees. There are, ladies and gentle-
men, universities and universities. Many countries in the world
do not recognize the degrees of all the universities operating in
their societies; the United States for example. The United States
has s.cme of the world's best universities, they also have some of the
world's worst. Another country is India. The best Indian univer-
sity ranks with the best anywhere in the world. The worst Indran
university is as bad as any you could find anywhere in the world.
Some degrees in Europe, Ireland, parts of Europe and so on,
where the medical degree arises in the Trinidad context, all make
it necessary for the Ministry of Education to evaluate-when it
says a Bachelor's degree, well there are bachelors and bachelors.
If you talk about a teacher's certificate from abroad, well, ladies
and gentlemen, there are teachers' colleges and teachers' colleges.
I spent a lot of time fascinated a few months ago talking
to some experts in one of the British Universities, which I will
not identify, who was telling the Vice-Chancellor of the University
of the West Indies, Dr.. Sherlock, and. myself, and the Acting
Principal of, the Barbados College of the University, the steps
his University was taking to seek to upgrade the certificates that
were given out in the teachers colleges, the teacher training
colleges which the University had some responsibility for serving.
We have to be careful. Somebody comes in with a B.A. and
we say: "'well, let us find out what sort of B.A. you have" or
what sort of teacher's certificate. And when we have done that
we have got to find out what is the relationship, ladies and gentle-
men, between a university training in the field ef medicine and
university training in the field of law. You could get a law degree

perhaps in three years, the medical degree would take you six
years, the engineering degree would take what, four years?
I don't think you could do it in three years, possilly four years.
And each year means so much expense for the Government or
for the student or for the individual. When a man gets a medi-
cal degree and joins the Service three years after a man with
a law degree-where does he fit in in terms of perquisites,
in terms of compensation (to use the, word that we have been
using) ? Remembering that the law man having done his degree
in three years by the time the medical fellow who started with
him has finished his training, the law man has had three years
of public service and three years of practical experience in a
department or in.a Ministry.
Don't run away with the idea that this is something involv-
ing doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc., it goes right down through
the Service. The public health nurse with whom many of you
would be familiar is a nurse who, after her basic qualifications
will have given her the status of a staff nurse, has gone and
done an extra year in midwifery and over and above that has
done a further year in public health training. So that if you
are relating salary to classification, to training, to qualification,
obviously you must take into account the two years additional
training, that the nurse has in order to become a public health
nurse; and the same would apply to the doctor who takes his
basic degree and goes and does a year's diploma to get a degree
or diploma in public health.

Differences Between Services
/To turn to another aspect of this general, problem: the
differences between the services. In some services, in the civi
service, it is easier in certain sections to get promotion thai,
it is in the other services: the police force, the teaching ser-
vice, for the simple reason that there can only be one head-
master in a .school. (Laughter). You could have two leaders in
a political party, I agree! And sometimes you could have a party
in which, like the old joke about the Haitian army, all you
have is leaders, no privates. But you can't have that in a school,
ladies and gentlemen. And the police force is organized on
the basis of a particular balance between constables, corporals,
sergeants, inspectors and so on, which it is not too easy to
interfere with. You have perhaps heard that we have decided
in these draft proposals before the country now to improve the
promotional opportunities in respect of teachers by deciding
formally that in every school with an enrollment above a certain
number I think it is 400, there must be a vice-principal, which
obviously provides an opportunity for promotion that was not
there before.
SIt is. not too easy to do that in terms of a police force or-

ganised on the basis of a Commissioner, Deputy Commissioner,
Assistant Commissioner, Superintendent, Assistant Superinten-
dent and so on. The hierarchy is already established. And it
is not too easy to create new posts. We are looking into that
particular question which is not limited only to policemen and
teachers. In certain sections of the civil service there are the
same lack of opportunities. A service like Inland Revenue
is almost a closed service. You don't want to take one of your
best tax men and let him leave in order to go to some ouner
department purely to get promotion. Customs and Excise is
another indication of the difficulty that is presented there, call-
ing for some sort of special consideration to particular sections
of the public service in which stagnation rather than mobility
is the rule.
The civil servant has the advantage over the teacher and
policeman in terms of his annual increments. He gets promoted
and then one year later on the anniversary date of appointment
or promotion he gets an increment or whatever it is a month.
The teachers wait twelve months for it. I don't know why, it is
just that it is there now. He waits twelve months, and the police-
man could wait five or six, or if the anniversary date comes
after the 30th. June, he waits for 18 months. There seems to
be no valid reason for that differentiation between policeman
as a public servant, teacher as a public servant and civil servant
as a public servant.
That is one of the matters that is engaging our attention
though obviously the financial implications would stand out be-
fore we start to consider the matter. If you suddenly change
the incremental date and have to put everybody on the same
footing (we did not think you should take away from the civil
servant, we thought we ought to bring teachers and policemen
up to the level of the civil servant rather than bring the civil
servant down to the level of the teacher), (loud cheers), for
the first year that could be quite costly but then things would
work out.
Now the question of leave. I understand that it is an estab-
lished fact in Trinidad and Tobago today that everybody tries
to work as little as possible and get as much pay as possible.
It would be all. right if it were just mangoes or something
you were picking from the trees, but when you come to consider
the old procedures dating from the colonial period of the civU
servant having leave at home, he had, what is it called ?-local
leave. Then if he does not want the leave to be local he 'could
call it casual, and then he could go abroad--accumulate a lot
of leave and go abroad-at public expense and so on. The police,
men, at least only the senior policemen, had that. The teacher
did not have that unless he was a Government secondary school

. teacher who, over and above his school vacation, was still get-
ting leave. Sometimes I wonder how much, work they did. The
primary school teacher is different. His vacation is the school
vacation and so on. Once you try to unify and standardise all
these differences, all these anomalies in some instances stand
out. I say anomalies because if you are giving trips abroad to
public servants wvhy do you leave out some sections of the Public
Service ?
When you look at the Statutory Boards now, as we
call them, it might be a City Council, a County Council or those
that generate their own revenue like the Electricity Commission
or the Port Authority., What's another one ?" The I.D.C.. Tele-
phone-which is not yet a statutory board but which is almost
certain to become a statutory board, it earns revenue,' it car-
ges people rates for tolls and all the rest of that. As distinct
from other bodies like a County Council which gets all its money
from the Government, and if it happened to earn any money
at all the money goes straight back to the Treasury. These
Boards operate, the revenue producing boards-Port and Elec-
tricity-under law, with a Minister broadly responsible for what
they are doing. He could have to answer questions in Parlia-
ment or be responsible for piloting their estimates through
Parliament on the occasion of the budget. And the Minister
under the law can give general or specific directions to a Board.
But the law specifically allows a Board to hire anybody
it pleases, to fire anybody it pleases, and they go about the
place saying they need somebody and they. pay rates in excess
of what comparable posts in the Civil Service would pay. In.
fact one of the principal and most legitimate causes for dissatis-
faction among civil servants is the fact that they see higher
salaries being paid for comparable work and comparablee respon-
sibility in a statutory Board which should supposedly take orders
from the Government for responsibilities that are no different
from what they have to perform in the Civil Service proper.
And the fact is that you have had within the last few months
about three Boards just arbitrarily dismissing employees. The
employees of the Statutory Boards do not have the legal and
constitutional protection that a public servant has, if he worked
in the Attorney General's office or he worked with Mr. O'Hallo-
ran. The Attorney General cannot fire anybody in his depart-
ment; Mr. O'Halloran cannot fire anybody working in his Minis-
try;, the Prime Minister cannot fire anybody. The officer has to
be charged before the Public Service Commission and the Public
Service Commission would give the officer an opportunity to
state his case in reply to the charges, and if the officer wants
he could be represented by his legal man, protecting his liveli-
hood and protecting his rights as a citizen. And ultimately the
Public Service Commission woild be making provision for an
appeals tribunal so the man could appeal against a finding which
might, mean the end of his career as a public servant.

But if that protection could be enshrined in our Constitu-
tion, Independence Constitution, one of the most heavily en-
trenched clauses bof the Constitution, we do not see how we
could possibly.. justify a Statutory Board firing an employee
Where the Union goes and takes the Statutory Board before
the Industrial Court and the Industrial Court votes in favour
of the Union and against the Government department. That
should never arise and what is involved is some sort of protec-
tion comparable to the Public Service Commission for employees
of Statutory Boards some of whom have complained that they
have been dismissed from their posts, sometimes by politicians,
without even a hearing.
A letter has just been sent to the Ministry of Education
and Culture, copied to me, by yet another employee of another
Statutory Board who claims that he has been unjustly dismissed.
The Board comes under the broad general jurisdiction of the
Ministry of Education. The Minister of Education has no power
under the law-Mr. Dictator, you don't have the power-, he
just does not have the power. And what Mr. Pierre is going to
have to do is bring that matter before the Cabinet for con-
sideration and Cabinet may have to appoint a special inquiry.
Anybody could petition the Cabinet, anybody could petition a
Minister or the Prime Minister, and there is nothing in the world
to stop the Cabinet from instituting a particular enquiry into any
particular subject subject to the Commissions of Enquiry
Ordinance. (Applause). I checked with the Attorney General and
he said my reservation 'subject to the Commissions of Enquiry
Ordinance' is right. Nowadays when it seems as if lawyers grow
on bushes, I am going to play bush lawyer too! (Laughter).

Bargaining Procedure-
And there are a lot of other questions. One of the most
important which would be of concern to all workers is the fact
that for a variety of reasons the arrangements: that have existed
in the past in respect of bargaining between Government and
its employees has not been satisfactory partly because in my
opinion we have inherited that cumbersome and -absurd and
totally meaningless, it seems to me, British institution called
the Central Whitley Council and the departmental sections of
that Whitley Council. What we were concerned with is trying
in this reorganisation of the Public Service to set up proper
machinery for proper bargaining, and we think we have fouhd
the answer in the proposal that we have put forward in the
Civil Service Act-the establishment of a personnel department
of the Government in the Ministry of Finance, with power given
to it by the Minister of Finance who has to do the paying that
is involved, to negotiate with the representatives of the. Associa-
tions. And that principle, emphasisigg the integration and stan-
dardisation of the whole Public Service, is also enshrined 'li
: 10.

the Police Service Act where the Police Association is concerned,
and it is enshrined in the Education Act- of which I believe
that notwithstanding all the words that have been spoken on
the Education Act not a single comment has been made about
this fundamental reform in the present bargaining arrangements
between Government and the teachers who are employees of
the Government.
Immediately this poses the question as far as we are con-
cerned in reorganising the Public Service-how could you take
a senior civil servant who is negotiating on behalf of the Min-
ister of Finance, and permit him to be a member of the Trade
-Union with which he is negotiating ? He belongs to Management.
So we separate a section of the Civil Service from the bargaining
body that is recognized for civil servants, which on the one
hand is the Civil Service Association, on the other hand is the
Postmen's Union, where postmen are concerned, and we spy
that they cannot be left without any representation at all. They
have their own interests to defend and they must themselves
sit down sooner or later and talk as employees of the Govern.
ment with the Government itself whom they represent in dis-
cussions with: the Civil Service Association or the Postme?'s
Union or for that matter the TeacHers' Union or the Police
Association. So we simply say that they are not to be in the
Trade Union and they are to form their own staff association
which cannot be registered as a Trade Union.
That now has created quite a serious problem, which is that
the persons who are involved had built up accrued rights over
the years in the Civil Service Association. They get benefits of
one sort or another in return fo'r the dues that they have paid,
and the fraternal aspect of, the Civil Service Association has some
meaning, and possibly a great deal of sentimental attachment,
for a number of them. We haven't yet solved that problem, but
it is quite a difficult one that is raised by the particular proposal
that we have put forward in the Civil Service Act and copied
as far as possible in the other Services with which we have been

Special Tribunal For Settling Disputes
I turn to another basic problem that we had. You bargain
and you negotiate and you do not always agree. So that disputes
have to be provided for: What is the procedure we have adopted?
We have put forward as our proposal a procedttre involving the
transmission of the particular problem to the Industiial Court,
a special tribunal of the Industrial Court, which in this particular
case-dealing with all monthly paid Government employees be-
cause it is the same for the Police, it is the same for the teachers
-is to comprise the President who is the Judge, the Vice-Presit
dent who is the Barrister, plus one other person, one other mem
; 11

ber bf the Court selected by the President, because it appeared
to the Cabinet to be quite improper for any Ministertor the Prime
Minister to select the third Member where it is a problem involv-
ing a dispute between the Government and its employees. So
the discretion is left entirely to the President of the Industrial
Court in the selection of the third Member, of the special tribunal.

Unified Teaching Service
Where the teachers are concerned there was the further
problem arising from what I have already said, the confusion
and so on, the discrimination against teachers in the primary
schools. And we believe we are right-we took a decision that
what we have to do is to have one single teaching service in
the country, a unified teaching service, an integrated teaching
service, particularly necessary m a country where the presence
of a multiplicity of denominational boards of management inevit-
ably tends to a crossing of the lines, possibly perhaps causing
a little confusion here and there. And the integration of the
teaching service therefore is to proceed in two directions. One-
the integration between the primary and the secondary schools,
and for that matter the technical institutes, like the John Donald-
son, and the training college like Mausica.
The integration is in one direction of primary teachers
suitably qualified who must be able to proceed upwards in the
hierarchy to the secondary school. The integration must also be
a horizontal integration, the Teaching Service being as far as
possible integrated with the Civil Service on the one hand and
the Police Service on the other as one integral part of a unified,
comprehensive Public Service. In that general context we
have dealt, as the Attorney General has indicated, with
problems of recruitment, specifying in certain fields examinations
for entry where we believe that standards must be lifted, and we
look constantly towards the coming generation, the products of
the secondary school. Free secondary education will lead to such
a diffusion of knowledge and performance in examinations that
we feel justified in looking to an improvement rather than a dete-
rioration as far as the standards and qualifications of applicants
for entry are concerned. The Examinatiohs Board and examina-
tions would be a matter for the Public Service Commission. I am
merely indicating the problems that the Cabinet Committee and
the Cabinet encountered and the policy decisions that we have
taken, leaving it to either governmental regulations or Public
Service Commission regulations for the decisions to be imple-

Fire And Prison Services- Protective Class
Another difficulty that we face, you may have heard about
it, is when we come to deal with the Fire Service and the Prisns

Service, where are we going to locate them? A fireman is not a
civil servant, it seems to us the fireman has the powers of a
constable in particular circumstances. No citizen is going to
be allowed to gd around interfering with the fire service when
it is necessary to save the whole of Frederick Street from burning
down. Under certain circumstances the people responsible for
that fire can take action in terms of private property that no
private citizen can take. The fireman has a special job to do
and it seems that he is in a particular class, what we call the
protective class, as the prison officer.

It is bad enough for a messenger to leave an office and
:take away the key with him! (Laughter). He would get into
a lot of trouble, but could you imagine what would happen if
a prison officer left the prison and took the key away with
him ? (Laughter). Obviously it isn't just taking away a key. it
is what key you take away And a prison officer is not a civil
servant; a civil servant sits down in his office and does anything.
All over the world the prison officer is a man who has got to
face the possibility that some disturbance might, take place in
a prison, and under certain circumstances the prison officer has
' certain powers where the maintenance of law and order and dis-
cipline in a prison is concerned. The prison officer, it seems to
us, is in the protective service also. And we thought that he
should be dealt with separately.

LIeave Passage No More
And we didn't think that in the age of independence we
could justify sending people abroad for eight or uine months
to spend a vacation at public expense. That is what the Euro-
peans did at our taxpayers' expense, and our people can't do
that. Now don't make the mistake that our argument is against
going abroad. A small country like ours-good heavens. our
best people will have to go abroad more and more. but it is the
purpose for which you go abroad, and it is who goes abroad.
As it is now it is the civil servant, it is hardly the policemen,
-except perhaps in a certain category, and it is only the Govern-
ment secondary school teacher. If it comes to broadening one's
experience abroad, who needs the opportunity more than many
,of the primary and intermediate teachers?

So, what we say is 'no more leave passages abroad for vaca-
tion purposes'. But we will probably have to spend much more
money, ladies and gentlemen, on sending people abroad for
raining purposes and training doesn't necessarily mean a uni-
versity. A university means three years or five years. You might
send a ma.i to be attached to a particular department abroad
fr siximonths, and when you send ;him yout have a whole range
of countries to send him to.

Now the civil servant rushes off to England or for the most
part to some of the West Indian islands. But in many fields a
country like Israel has a lot to teach Trinidad and Tobago. Some
of the best planning techniques if we wanted to send econo.
mists abroad-have been developed in the United Arab Republic
or India. Canada would be another field. We have close contacts
with Cana4p in many fields. And you may want to send some-
body abroad for training during what would normally have been
his holiday period overseas. We may want to send him to Canada,
we may want to send him to the United States of America.
If you wanted to deal in the field of, let us say, radio communi-
cation or something like that, where would you go ? The first
country that you would have to choose would be the United
States of America; possibly a South American country.
In the economic field, provided the man can speak the lan-
guage, France. We have one of our senior advisers, in the field
of electricity, from France and therefore the whole field is oven.
Japan, for Central Banking, and the whole field of industrial
development in Japan. Financial matters Switzerland: he
doesn't have to stay in the Commonwealth. In labour and in-
dustrial matters, Sweden and Norway.
And this training would have to be extended to all fields,
all countries approved by the Cabinet. And we will insist that
it must be available also for policemen,-who go abroad some-
times and take training courses in England at some police col-
lege, and available for teachers apart from the Government
secondary school teachers.
Another problem is that of Government quarters all
over the place, who is to get the quarters ? Somnitimes the
police claim that they are not entitled to get the privilege that
is extended to civil servants. The teachers sometimes claim
they have to travel such long distances to get to the school to
which ,they are posted because in the old days they used to
take a fellow and say "You playing the fool! We are going
to punish you, we are going to send you to Guayaguayare." But
nobody dares to send anybody to Guayaguayare today. Guaya.
guayare is a part of independent Trinidad and Tobago, and
when you send a man to Guayaguayare you are not sending
him there by way of -a disciplinary measure, you are sending
him to Guayaguayare to play his part in the development of
Trinidad and Tobago. (Cheers).
That creates a problem. Who is to get the quarters, on what
'terms, etc. ? Where at least certain civil servants today in the
country are representing Government at all sorts of levels in-
cluding international relations, and therefore the Government
has some responsibility to its representatives where international
relations are concerned.

People have been in the habit of borrowing from the Gov-
ernment--somebody runs short and he borrows from the Gov-
ernment and up to recently he didn't pay interest. He borrowed
and so on. But the Government has to borrow sometimes at
interest to lend somebody with no interest, and now that we
are charging interest it is much less than what we have to pay,
what we borrow at. We are going to have to introduce the policy
that when we borrow, and we borrow to lend, virtually guaran-
teeing a loan that a civil servant made-the man is in difficul-
ties, by all means he is entitled to come to his employer-,
but the employer must see, especially where public minds are
involved, that you don't spend public funds in borrowing money
at high rates of interest to lend it back at low rates of interest.
You do that for- agriculture. The Agricultural Credit Bank does
that to help the farmer, otherwise the farmer would never get
off the ground.
And then we have problems that have developed-we come
up against them every day in the reorganisation of the Minis-
tries. For example, the Ministry of Finance which has so many
'different sections and responsibilities thrust upon it in recent
years, and now these new Acts are going to add another, per-
haps one of the most important, the Personnel Department of
the Government, negotiating with the different associations.
And it is not going to be possible to change the relation-
ship existing today between a member of the Cabinet and his
Permanent Secretary in his office unless you deal with the mem-
ber of the Cabinet himself or for that matter with the Member
of Parliament who is the one who has to pass the laws, who
is part of the body that has to deal with the legislation and
so on.. And ultimately this exercise-Cabinet can no longer allow
people to go about the place, this Union boasting that it has
the best pension plan in the country. and you have no pension
plan for the Members of Parliament. Trinidad and Tobago must
be the only place where that applies today, one of the only
countries. And that too/ will have to be looked at, otherwise
we will find it increasingly difficult to get people who come
up now to perform a Dublic service. Our Cabinet colleagues-
and I-have been working seven days a week, day, night, in
the middle of the day, in the middle of the night, just in order
to get the work done. And if this is going to be a full time
public service then it must be remunerated along the lines con-
sidered within the capacity of the country and with the normal.
conventional privileges which we are seeking to extend to all
workers in the country.

The Acts
That is why, ladies and gentlemen, within the last two to
three months in the context of all these problems and con-
siderations we have published so many of these draft bills.

There is nothing involving the Civil Service and now we have
the draft bill there. The Civil Service Bill,, the Police Service
-which was out of date, we took the opportunity to revise
it. And sometimes if we kept a particular aspect of what exists
today like police pensions, it is simply because the reconsidera-
tion of existing arrangements had not been completed, so we
put in what is there now because if you were repealing the
whole Act and you didn't nut in it what was there you would
have no authority to pay any police pensions at all. So taking
into consideration the completion of that question of tensions.
you put it in. So it is not a complete revision of what now

The Fire Service Act-we bring up to date what is there
Loday, what exists. The Prisons Service-we are about to pub-
lish that. a certain difficulty has arisen. The Education Act is
30 years old, revised in 1951, with regulations at least 14 years
old, in revised form, And we have published today additional
educational regulations dealing with the Teaching Service and
-we hope to have within the next two to three days another
set of regulations under the Education Act dealing with private

And then we published an Official Secrets Act. You can't
allow people to go about talking Government business about
the place. We had no Official Secrets Act in Trinidad. We have
been operating all the years in the colonial period under the
broad general khmbrella available to all Crown colonies of a
'British Act passed in 1911. How could independent Trinidad
and Tobago continue to operate under a British Act when it
is a member of the.Commonwealth ? So we just had to intro-
duce our own Official Secrets Act.

Probably we will have to do something, though we have
not got around to it yet, covering the Statutory Boards. Some
sort of Service Commission for Statutory Boards by which a
group of people like the Public Service Commission, completely
independent of the Government, will deal with all matters involv-
ing appointment, promotion, transfer, dismissal and discipline
of the employees of Statutory Botrds.

There are some aspects of this exercise that the Govern-
4ment cannot deal with. The Public Service CommissiOn is the
authority dealing with discipline. Certain. people .have asked:
but why in this Act don't you make any reference to disci-
pline? This is because discipline, any reference to discipline,
would have been an invasion of the jurisdiction of the Public
Service Commission. The Public Service Commission would be
making its own regulations governing appointments, promotions,
transfers, dismissals, discipline and so on.

We have published these Acts and regulations for com-
ment. A lot of them have come in, the Civil Service Association
and the Postmen's Union have commented on the Civil Service
side of it. The Teachers' Union and a lot of other people, plus
the Civil Service Association for secondary school teachers, have
commented on the Education Act. The Police Association and
the Gazetted 'Officers Association have commented on the Police
Act, behaving rather strangely, they haven't said a word. No-
body even knows that they have commented-very curious to
think that the greatest amount of dignity and decorum in this
public exercise has been demonstrated by the Police Force
'and also by the Postmen's Union. (Applause). And of course
there have been a lot of comments-some expected, some un-
expected, some solicited, some unsolicited on the Education Act,
and I suppose some more will come in on the Education Regu-
We had hoped to take the entire exercise, involving every-
thing: Civil Service, Police Service, Fire Service, Prison Ser-
vice, Official Secrets,, Statutory Boards, classification and com-
pensation, beginning with that, Members of Parliament and
Cabinet, we had hoped to go with the entire exercise to Par-
liament at the beginning of October. Unfortunately the work
has been too severe and we have not been able to do so. We
are still Working hard on the job and with the hope that we
will be able to complete it quickly because it has implications
for the country's budget next year. To the extent that we have
to find additional money we must try to get it done before
the 1966 budget.

Context Of Education Act
So, ladies and gentlemen, it is in that context and in no
other that one must look at the Education Act that we have
published and the Educition Regulations. The Education Act
and the Regulations that go with it are an integral part of the
entire exercise that vwe have called and published all over the
place as the Reorganisation of the Public Service, with the
emphasis on reclassification and some changes in compensation.
We have said so time and again. I don't know how many times
I have dealt with this general subject in the broadest terms -i
public addresses without in any way embarrassing the Cabinet
which has not made final decisions. Somebody like Mr. Richards,
the Attorney General, and I know more about this exercise at
this moment than Mr. O'Halloran does. Because Mr. Richards
and I are members of the Cabinet Committee, Mr. O'Halloran
only sees the work and the recommendations of the Cabinet
Committee, when the matter comes before Cabinet. So I have
been particularly careful when discussing this general subject
not to give the impression that this is a Cabinet decision. I
said rwe are talking. along the following lines and this, is the'
S 17':

"problem that we are looking at but. the solution is not clear.
Some of the problems we still are facing, the solutions are not
yet clear.
So in this situation it is absurd for anybody to come and
say among other things that on the Education Act, we took the
country by surprise. By what surprise ? In February 1964 we
stated that we appointed, in consultation with the different
associations, working parties to deal with the role of the Civil
Service, the Teaching Service, the Police Service in the age of
independence, and we have said repeatedly the working party
report on the Teaching Service is a public document anybody
could get. You can hardly hold us responsible if people decide
that, instead of rendino public documents, they rush off to cock-
tail parties. The Cabinet Committee doesn't have time for cock-
tail parties, we have got to do the work and it is not being
fair to say that we take the country by surprise.
But in the name of all that is holy, how could you possibly
(loud laughter)-I just cannot understand what all these unholy
people are roaring about. I mean, in the name of all that is
reasonable (laughter), how is it possible for anybody to say
that we take the country by surprise and should let the coun-
try know in advance or consult X, Y or Z when we are talking
in terms of unification of the Teaching Service? That is a poli-
tical decision, that is a decision that has to be debated in Par.
lament. The Government is responsible to Parliament for that.
It is also responsible, of course to the citizen body of the coun
try and we published the Act for comment and sent it specifi-
cally to the unions that today have bargaining rights in respect
of teachers which is the Teachers' Union and the Civil
Service Association. What more, do you expect of
a Government? A Government in an independent country,
a sovereign state, our domestic jurisdiction surely ex-
tends to the question of unifying the Teaching Service and say-
ing, there's going to be only one Teaching Service in this
country. If a Government does not have that power, then what
power does a Government have? (Applause).

But this was very clearly stated before we announced the
whble exercise in Parliament some time in June, expressing the
hope that we would be able to complete it by the end of September.
There was a motion on Education toved by somebody on the
opposite benches and as the Minister of Education is not in
the House of Representatives I replied on behalf of the Govern-
ment. And we have been talking about integration all over the
country. In fact the working party wrote savagely about the
noti-integration of the -Teaching Service. It is there for every-
body to read that the working party said what is needed in this
country is integration of the Teaching Service. I don't know
if it is that they didn't have time, but they didn't proceed to

propose how it should be integrated and the Cabinet Committee
just decided it should go ahead. We didn't take the country by
any surprise, as the country has been waiting to hear what it
is that we positively proposed within this field.
And what are the essential features of this Education Act ?
I think it is necessary for an audience like this to understand
it, though I gather that many of you have read the Act. I don'L
know if you realise that these bits of legislation the Civil
Service Act, the Police Service Act, the Education Act, and the
Education Regulations have within the last few weeks been best
sellers all over the country. Government documents have never
sold to this extent.

Essential Features
Let us consider the essential features of the Education Act
and of course, there are particular features of. it that I would
like to discuss tonight. It is getting a little late and I don't want
to keep you all longer than is necessary (go ahead). Well, if
you don't .like what I said, let me put it this way, I don't want
to keep myself here longer than is necessary. (laughter).
Let us consider the main features I won't keep you longer
than is necessary, but there are lots that I want to say on this
matter of Education. The first point about the Education Act
is that you need a new Ordinance, you need a new Act, simply
because what you had dates from the colonial period in 1951
-the latest revision-and the country is today an independent
country, three years old and you have primary school regulations
eoing back to 1951. Look at what has happened in Trinidad and
Tobago in the last 14 years; and there were no secondary school
regulations at all until the P.N.M. brought out secondary school
regulations in 1958. But those now have been completely altered
because of the new framework in which secondary education
operates in the country-free secondary education and so on,
more schools and everything.
The -second point about the Education Act is it involves a
registration of all teachers in the country. The Minister of Edu-
cation today does not know who are all the teachers in the
country. You have got to get permission from the Police or
Magistrate or whoever it is to start a rumshop, but anybody could
start a school in this country. You have to get permission to
operate a club in the country, but you could just go and start
a school like that-anybody could teach. mean it's bad enough
to have quack dentists, worse to have quack midwives. (laugh-
ter). but worst of all to have quack teachers. And the Govern-
ment has a responsibility to the nation. It is in this respect
that we say teachers must be registered, and the register in-
eludes the teachers' qualifications, etc., and then if a person
is removed from the profession by the Public Service Commis-

sion, then that is immediate authority for the Minister to remove
that name from the register; where a private teacher is con-
cerned provision is made for him to appeal to a Judge or a
Magistrate if he feels that his livelihood is affected and so on
by what the Minister has decided.
Unified Teaching Service
The third feature of the Education Act is what I just referred
to a Unified Teaching Service which will operate a national
system of public education and the clear designation of public
schools in the country an independent country like ours -
to train the citizens to serve their country and to fill the differ-
ent posts economic, social and political expanzson has con-
stantly created. Any country would have to do that. We do it
in the context of a unified Teaching Service. I sometimes wonder
why did we have to wait until 1965 to do this. But it becomes
mandatory now with the reclassification of the Public Service,
with the integration of the Teaching Service with the entire
Public Service, with the emphasis on qualifications for particular
posts, and with the relationship of salaries to those qualifications.
You must have some legal framework in which you do all those*
things, and it is impossible for us to do it in the context of
this parcellation and this confusion that exists today. A uni-
fled Teaching Service includes some attempt to control the pri-
vate schools as I have just indicated, and with the
,necessary regulations governing the administration of
schools, the organisation of the schools-it might be the respon-
sibility of a manager of a school, it might be the sanitary con-
veniences that are to be provided for the schools, it might be
the type of furniture that is to be used in the schools. We say
that no desk that doesn't have a back-rest for the protection of
the children is hereafter to be provided in any school. The
Minister's regulations go into very great detail in a number
of points dealing with the organisation of pupil teachers or the
Common Entrance Examination on which I shall speak separately
tonight, and the classroom space-how many square feet per
child; what it must be in a primary school, what it must be in
a secondary school and so on.
The final point I wish to refer to in this context is the
accountability of the schools, the different sums that are pro-
vided in respect of school X or school Y as far as all schools
are concerned, and what we said there in the Act about the
Exchequer and Audit Ordinance. Government is not free to say,
there's the law of the land and the Government will not follow
the law of the land with respect to X, Y or Z. We saw it coming
in 1960 when Cabinet published the Cabinet proposals on Edu-
cation, the outcome of an extensive examination of the Educa-.
tion System of the country by a Committee headed by Mr. lamil-

ton Maurice, who is now President of the Senate. The Com-
mittee recommended "that an officer with the necessary train-
ing in the auditing of accounts be given the duty to carry out
routine checks of expenditure of government funds in assisted
schools both primary and secondary". Cabinet decided in 196C
and published it (these proposals of Cabinet were debated in
Parliament) that it would take the following action on this
recommendation from the Maurice Committee. "The Govern-
ment has accepted this recommendation in the larger context of
the responsibility of the Ministry under the Exchequer and
Audit Ordinance, 1959."
So you can hardly say that the Exchequer and Audit Ordin-
ance in 1965, its incorporation in the Act, the Draft Act of
1965, is a surprise. It is a surprise only to those people who
pay no attention whatsoever to what is going on in the country.
and what are the basic decisions reached by Cabinet under all
the constitutional procedures laid down for Cabinet decisions
and the approval of Parliament.
Compulsory Education
There is one final point about the Act I should mention to
complete this picture, and. that is the question of compulsory
education-the protection of the child, especially from cinema
shows about which all the parents complain, and the rumshops,
the betting places and the pool rooms and all the rest of it.
Education means first and foremost the protection of the child.
We had thought in fact. that we should label the section that
we have marked in the Act 'Compulsory Education' -we thought
we should call it 'the protection of the school child'. That is the
child has constitutional rights too, and we have sought to estab-
lish those in the Act.
Grants To Assist Secondary Schools
In respect of financial accountability. perhaps you may like
to know some idea of what it involves. We give a lot of money
for various purposes and so on, especially at the level of assisted
secondary schools, which are in the limelight in terms of argu-
ments that have been going back and forth, and I will develop
this point because of what I want to say about the Common
Entrance Examination. Between 1958 and up to the end of
September 1965 the total amount of grants that have gone into
building and extension and rebuilding to the assisted secondary
schools amounted to $1,270,196. And the colleges, like Naparima
College at San Fernando, for example, got money in 1958, 1959,
1960, 1961 for extension and the total grants to Naparima were
$160,332. The Tunapuna Presbyterian School, Hillview, got in
1959, 1960, 1961 a total of $107,498. A new school like Trinity
College on the outskirts of Port-of-Spain got $162,373, and has
been getting money ever since 1962. St. Mary's College got
$75,000 for an extension in 1962 and another $75,000 in 1963,

a total of $150,000, which my friend Mr. Pierre tells me has
enabled the College to build one of the finest halls in Trinidad,
allowing them to hold meetings and all the rest. (Laughter)
Presentation College, Chaguanas has got in 1958 and 1959 ,the
sum of $176,736. St. Stephen's College. the Anglican School in
Princes Town, got $160,000 in 1959 and 1960. Iere College, the
Presbyterian College in Siparia, got $92,971 in 1960. St. Augus-
tine Girls' High School which is now being expanded, tht ex-
pansion beginning last year, has got so far $68,635. Bishop's
High School in Tobago, the Anglican School there, has got
$21,651. Holy Faith Convent, Couva, got $70,000 in 1964, and
.Holy Cross College in Arima has in 1965 up to now got $50,000.
So that when we talk about financial accountability and so
on, there is something to account for. And the Government has
a responsibility to insist that, just as the Minister of Finance
could step in through his cost accounting unit and check up on
work being done by the Works Department, so this is a part
of the public service of the country, involving public funds, and
the Ministry of Finance's responsibility through the Cabinet is
to ensure proper accounts at all levels where public funds are
involved. I did not think that, at the level of our political maturity
today, it would have been necessary for me to have emphasised
the fact that the Government must accept responsibility for all
the public funds over which it has some control which the Auditor
General who is totally independent of any Ministry or of the
Cabinet-discusses in his annual report, which could become the
subject of the activities of the Public Accounts Committee in
Parliament where the Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee
is by convention a member of the Opposition and where reDorts
of,the Public Accounts Committee must be debated if the Chair-
man so requests.
The Government has no control, no power whatsoever, to
stop any debate on a report of the Auditor General on the finances
of the country or a report of the Public Accounts Committee
checking up as to how the Ministries have spent their money. I
would have thought that merely to say that we were following
British Parliamentary democracy in this respect of financial ac-
countability would have said all that was needed to be said on
the subject. Apparently one must make some allowance-here-
after I shall make a little more allowance in these matters-for
a larger number of constitutional ignoramuses than I had
imagined. (Laughter). I have a proposition to make on this later.
I have been giving a lot of thought to it.

What Is Inevitable ?
But anyway I would like to turn now, Mr. Chairman and
ladies and gentlemen, to some of the major criticisms that we
have heard (or that I have heard) of the Education Act. The first

criticism is that the Education Act violates the Concordat which
had been signed by the Government and the denominations in
1960 and it violates it in that we did not negotiate with the prin-
cipals of Assisted Secondary Schools. What the Concordat says
on that particular point is that the existing relationship, etc.,
will remain "subject, however, to negotiated changes inevitable
with the introduction of free secondary education." Not as happy
a phrase as one might have had. The Attorney General's first
question was, how can you negotiate something that is inevit.
able ? But we did not have the benefit of my learned friend
when we were there in 1960 so I just have nothing to say.

What I would like to say is this. What is inevitable
with free secondary education ? Change ir th* Education
Act ? A unified teaching service isn't inevitable with tree second-
ary education. The Government says it is nonsense to have this
discrimination against the primary school-teacher and we must
unify the service and integrate it with the Civil Service. You
consult the staff association. I could see the Civil Service Asso-
ciation saying something because some teachers are involved.
But I don't see anything about a unified teaching service being
inevitable with free secondary education. We might have done
it before. Ask the Teachers' Union how long they have been
preaching integration.
In what way is classification of the Public Service-as I
have described it-inevitable with free secondary education ?
What has the classification of the Police Service got to do with
the Concordat ? But the Police Service is an essential part of
the classification of the entire Public Service and we put the
teachers in. Are we supposed to say that the teachers are not
Public servants in that sense until we negotiate ? What has com-
pensation got to do with free secondary education? What we
have said is that we are not going to change the Civil Service
until we see the Teaching Service in relation to it and the Police
Service in relation to both; What has free secondary education
Sgt to do with financial accountability ? We merely say you
have to account for Government funds, and you have to account
for Government funds.
None of these matters arises with free secondary education
so when I hear the argument I ask myself: what is it I am
supposed to negotiate ? Am I supposed to negotiate competent
Government decisions, decisions competently taken within the
field of Government jurisdiction in respect of the Teaching Ser-
vice or its classification or its unification or its compensation?
These are just the normal powers of a. Government. What we
\have to do is discuss with the recognized associations, which
we -are trying to do-we haven't given them classification and
compensation yet. That is the Teachers' Union, or in respect of
the Police Service it is the Police Association and the Gazetted

Officers Association. When the Principals of assisted secondary
schools complain that they were not consulted, I don't see myself
in what capacity we were to consult them. They have written to
say we didn't consult them on regrading, we didn't consult them
on Collett and Clapp, and we didn't consult them in respect of
the Working Party. Well. We didn't consult them.
We are supposed to consult the recognized associations
which have bargaining powers. The Principals are employees of
the Government. (Laughter). I am tin no position to say what
their relationship is to the Teachers' Union or to the Civil Ser-
vice Association, that is none of my business, but we consulted
the people that we are supposed to consult. And the Association
of Principals of Secondary Schools has no locus stand (to the
Attorney General: How am I doing with that?). (Laughter).
The Attorney General is humbugging me behind here. He tells
me that on a technical point-you see these lawyers, you have
to watch them-the Principals are not, technically, employees
of the Government. We pay to the Boards and the Boards pay
the Principals. So may I change, may I with the Attorney Gene-
ral's permission change what I said and state that the Principals
are paid by the Boards out of Public funds. (Laughter). Don't
misunderstand, my friends, there is nothing wrong with that,
they are performing a public service. I am not sneering, but I
mean if the Attorney General wants to get technical I could
get technical too. And this question of consultation-I am just
referring now to the basic questions of the classification, com-
pensation and unification-we have consulted those we thought
we ought to consult on these matters.

And then the second criticism that has been made is that
the Concordat has been omitted from the Act and some wise
guy says "Man; write it in line for line, word for word". It
becomes a little difficult to deal with these questions you know.
The P.N.M., the Government and the Opposition went to the
Independence Conference in London at Marlborough House in
1962 and the report of that conference-I suppose a lot of you
didn't read it, you know all the excitement when it was clear
that we were going to be independent on August 31st, 1962-
with our Attorney General there and our Constitutional Adviser
who is now our Ambassador in Washington and a large delega-
tion which included, I believe, Mr. Saied Mohammed and Mr.
Wilfrid Alexander and the legal boys and the non-legal boys-.
what are you laughing at? I said non-legal-and the non-legal
boys of the other side. (Laughter). The question came up at the
Independence Conference, and it was published in the report
of the Independence Conference, paragraph 54 which begins by
saying :
"Section 88 of the draft Constitution wi be deleted and

Section 85 will be amended to provide that the Public Ser-
vice Commission may with the approval of the Prime Minis-
ter, and subject to such conditions as it may think fit dele-
gate-any of its powers under this Section by directives in
writing to any of its members or to any public officer".
Then comes the key sentence: "The special position of
teachers and the substance of the agreement (commonly
called 'the Concordat') with the Denominational Boards
of Management of Assisted Primary Schools (there is *
slight error there, it is not Assisted Primary) will be re-
flected in regulations made by the Public Service Commis-
sion with the consent of the Prime Minister."
So that you decide at the Independence Conference, Gov-
ernment and Opposition, to put this in the Public Service Com-
mission regulations, which I can't do, the Public Service Com-
mission has exclusive jurisdiction, but the Constitution says they
must make these regulations with the consent of the Prime
Minister. And they raise a big howl all over the country that
you didn't put the Concordat in the Act. But you decided in
1962 that it is to go in the regulations, at least some of the
questions involving teachers. Is it unreasonable of me, ladies
and gentlemen, to expect that in a matter like this people who
have been talking so much would at least have read the public
documents that deal with the subject ? What are public docu-
ments for if you don't read them ?
Then they say that the regulations can be changed by the
Minister. But the Act can be changed by Cabinet. If the Cabinet
decides to go and amend the Act and you have a majority in
Parliament, you just go to Parliament and change the Act. So
to say we should .not put something in the Regulations but
put it in the Act-look, as long as everybody understands that
there is only one Attorney General in the country and that is
Mr. George Richards, and I don't want anybody else for that.
We sit down and decide what goes in the Act, what goes in the
regulations, it's a matter of legal practice, and then you come
to say that the Minister can change the regulations.
I understand the argument-a mysterious argument-is
that another Party not as good as the P.N.M. might take
over, and they say it might be the Communists. But ladies and
gentlemen, if the Communists took over, they would take over
everything! (Loud Laughter). They would take over every-
thing! The schools are the least part that Mr. Communist will
take over. But if anyone feels so badly about that, the solution
'is extremely simple. If you are worried about what would hap.
pen if the P.N.M. is .not there, then put the P.N.M. back, that's
afl. (Laughter and applause). (Whilst you are laughing I will
ust dcedk a legal point with the Attorney General. I am not
traveling anywhere again without the Attorney Geral.)
.. ,t

I have heard that there is a third argument which has been
stated on this matter. As I heard it, it was that you couldn't
find the Concordat. They had asked the Ministry of Education
for it and they couldn't find it and that what they saw there
didn't have the changes that were agreed to. I find it difficult
to understand this. The Concordat, ladies and gentlemen, is not
a matter for the Minister of Education (who is no longer with
us, unfortunately), it is a matter for the Cabinet. It is in the
Cabinet record. The Cabinet approved the changes and I don't
know why anybody should go about the place looking for a copy
of the Concordat. I have the Concordat here. (Shows it to the
people) And in paragraph four of the Concordat there is an
amendment-it is a typed document-in ink, initialled by the
late Minister, Mr. John Donaldson, with the date. And in Para-
graph 5 there is an amendment, a word written in, initialled
by Mr. Donaldson,: with the date. And in paragraph six there
is a change .from 'Ministry' to 'Cabinet', initialed by Mr. Donald-
son with the date. And in paragraph nine there is a change
from 'existing training facilities' to 'existing training colleges'
initialled by Mr. Donaldson, with the date. And there is Mr.
Donaldson's signature, which at least I recognize. Minister of
Education and Culture for the Government with the date, and
then it is signed by Pedro Valdez with the date. (Loud laughter)
I have the document here and I don't understand why any-
body should say that the document can't be found, or they asked
for it. It is for me to look for the document, not for X, Y and Z.
This is a Cabinet matter and people might get into a lot of
trouble going about the place asking injudiciously for Cabinet
documents. Cabinet documents are secret. We published this
one. It was published by the authority of the Cabinet of Trinidad
and Tobago. It was issued by the Premier's office on the 24th
December, 1960 and appeared in its authentic text in the 'Trini-
dad Guardian' on December 25th, 1960.

You will forgive me if I emphasise that, ladies and gentle
men, because this sort of argument goes about the place and
then somebody takes it abroad and the country's international
reputation may be affected. My job is, as head of the Govern
ment, whatever happens, to protect the reputation of the Govern-
ment and people of Trinidad and Tobago. (Applause)
As I Understand the fourth argument, it i stated that the
Government has broken its pledges to the churches. I think
we'd better get this quite clear. Supposing that Is so what
churches ? Not the Hindus, they were not consulted; not the
Muslim, they were not consulted; not the Methodists, they were
not consulted; not the Moravians, not the Baptists, not the
Seventh Day Adventists. Such is the case-it was an agreement
signed with three denominations; and even now, Mr. Attorney
general, I am not too dear as to whether it was a denomina-

tional matter as distinct from a matter involving a secondary
school principal. I say I am not clear, the Minister might know.
One thing is clear to me, and I have' already told the Minister
of Education this, that the Government in future is going to deal
with a Board of Management. We have a certain responsibility
to a Board of Management which has many adherents in the
community belonging to this faith or that faith or the other
faith, and I have asked Mr. Pierre to establish and follow the
strictest protocol hereafter and in these matters deal with the
Board of Management and not any particular individual. (Ap-
Religious Affiliation Of Population
The Concordat related to Assisted Secondary Schools of
three denominations because only three denominations have
rwondary schools-the Catholics, the Anglicans and the Presby-
teriaul. .i* the argument goes on, the Act threatens the deno-
minational character of. the schools. I think, ladies and gentle-
men, with so many parents here tonight and so many citizens,
I think we should have a little look at that and see what is
happening. How much time do I have ? (Go on, Go on, Laugh-
ter and applause). This is a matter that I believe would be
of considerable interest to the population as a whole.
The population in terms of its religious affiliation is very
highly diversified. As of the 1960 census, Roman Catholics were
36 per cent of the population; the Hindus next with 23; Angli-
cans next 21; Muslims 6; Presbyterians 4; and all others-I
say all others meaning no disrespect but they are small per-
centages and it would take a long time to call them out,--10
per cent. That is Trinidad and Tobago as a whole.
The percentages differ in the different divisions of Trini-
dad. For example the Roman Catholics are 50 per cent in St.
Andrew/St. David; and nearly 50 per cent in St. George which
for this purpose would include Port-of-Spain and Diego Martin.
But they are 18 per cent in Caroni and only 11 per cent in
Tobago. In Nariva/Mayaro 38 per cent; St. Patrick 34; Victoria
24. And whilst the Hindus are 23 per cent in the country as
a whole they are 50 per cent in Caroni and less than 1 per
cent in Tobago. They are 40 per cent in Victoria and 20 per
cent in St. Andrew/St. David, 33 per cent in Nariva/Mayaro
and 11 per cent in St. George.
And you go down the line fpr the Anglicans who are half
the population of Tobago but only a quarter of the population
of St. George; and who are ten per cent of the population in
Nariva/Mayaro and Caroni, but about 18 per cent in St.. Patrick
and Victoria. The Muslims: their highest proportion is in
Caroni 12 per cent, Victoria 9, the country as a whole 8,
Nariva/Mayaro 8, St. George 4, St. Andrew/St. David 5, St.
Patrick 5. The Presbyterians are one of the smallest of the

individual denominations; 4 per cent for the country as a
whole, amounting to 7 per cent in Victoria, 5 per cent in St.
Patrick and Caroni, and merely 2 per cent in St. George. The
other denominations representing 10 per cent of the population
of the country as a whole, are 40 per cent in Tobago and 9
per cent in St. Andrew/St.David. They are spread evenly
throughout the country: 8 per cent in St. George, 8 per cent
in Nariva/Mayaro, 8 per cent in St. Patrick; 8 per cent in Vic-
toria, and 5 per cent in Caroni.
The population is, in the religious sense, very diversified
and the proportions vary in different sections of the country.
This must be related to a school building programme that dates
from the colonial period. I emphasise the colonial period, mean-
ing principally by that before the great stimulus and self-res-
pect which the Hindus and Muslims have developed very
largely in relation to the independence of India and Pakistan
from colonialism. So that they have come in at the end of
the queue so to speak, the end of the line, late in the day,
when with the shift in population and mobility every day in-
creasing, patterns based on the religious affiliation 30 years
ago no longer prevail with the vast increase in the population
in Trinidad and Tobago today. So when you come to look at
the school population in 1964, some years after the census, you
would see the problem.
Religious Affiliation Of School Population
The total school population In 1964, and after all it is
school children we are talking about tonight and their parents,
is 200,000, to be precise 200,458. Of that figure, Catholics are
37 per cent, where you will remember they were 36 per cent
of the entire population. Hindus are 26 per cent where they
were 23 per cent of the entire population; Anglicans are. about
20 per cent, being 21 per cent in 1960 of the population.
Nearly 6 out of every 100 children are Muslims and about a
little less than 4 are Presbyterians.
And they are spread all over the country, spread in all
sorts of schools. For example there is a total of 59,076 Roman
Catholic children in all the schools in the country; 44,634 of
them are in Roman Catholic schools and some 15,000 are irf
other schools. They are in Anglican schools, 5,710. they are
in Presbyterian schools 625;'they are in Methodist schools 241;
they are in Moravian schools 100; they are in Hindu schools
,5,679. One in every ten Catholic children in the country today
is in a Hindu school; one in every ten Catholic children in the
country today is in an Anglican school. There. are 1,153 of
them in Muslim schools; 207 of them in the Seventh Day Ad-
ventist schools; 288 of them in Baptist schools; and 439 in
other schools of other smaller denominations. So that 76 per
cent of the Roman Catholic child population is in Roman Catho-
lic schools; of every four Roman Catholic children in the coun-
trr one is not in a loman Catholic sEhool.

The same would be true of Anglicans: 41 per cent, four
out of ten Anglican children, are not in Anglican schools.
Where are they? There are 5,291 of them in Roman Catholic
schools; there are 3,313 of them in Hindu schools, about one
in every nine Anglican children is in a Hindu school; there
are 832 of them with the Muslims; 417 with the Seventh Day
Adventists; 506 ini Presbyterian schools; 444 in Methodist: 404
in Baptist; 110 in Moravian; 835 in schools of other denomina-
tions. 80 per cent of Hindu children are in the Hindu schools
for which there are three different boards of management. In
the case of the Mahasabha schools 80 per cent of the children
in those schools are Hindu. Mahasabha schools have 942 Catho-
lics, 340 Anglicans, 290 Presbyterians. 13 Methodists, 253 Mora-
vians, 946 Muslims, 20 Seventh Day Adventists, 27 Baptists and
43 others.
Presumably, ladies and gentlemen, all this is happening
because all this is the parents' choice. (Applause). (These are
the primary schools, this may well be all schools. Is this all
schools or primary schools-this is primary and intermediate
schools. Mr. PieTre tells me). Presumably the child goes
to a particular school because the parent says it can go to that
school. And then you see this denominational picture, the
reality of it when you talk about the denominational character
of a school.
It is very difficult to see a denominational character in a
Presbyterian school because tne Presbyterian schools have a
total of 32,931 children, approximately 33,000. What is the larg-
est single religious group in the Presbyterian schools? Hindus,
18.900. About 6 out of every 10 children in Presbyterian Achools
are Hindus. If we .do talk about the denominational character of a
particular school or set of schools then let us understand that
the denominational character of that school which presumably
means the Presbyterian Board of Management, the Presbyterian
disciplinee and Presbyterian interest and responsibility, the
denominational character of the Presbyterian school is not in
consistent. with domination in the physical sense of the Presby-
terian schools by children of the Hindu faith.
The Presbyterian schools have only 4,513 children who are
themselves, Presbyterians. There are 7,231 Presbyterian child-
ren in the country in schools. Almost half the Presbyterian
children do not choose a Presbyterian school. And there are 73
Presbyterian schools in the country. In fact there are more
Anglican and Catholics combined in Presbyterian schools than
there are Presbyterian children.
So that when one talks about the denominational character
of a school, that must be within the general context of the'
school being open to children, especially the primary and inter-
mediate schools, of schools being open to children of different

faiths and even parents sending their children all over the place.
The Anglican schools in St. George-17 per cent. of the children
are Catholic. The Mahasabha schools in Nariva/Mayaro 12 per
cent Catholic. The population is spread out, the religious affilia-
tion of the population is not inconsistent with the attendance
of the children at school' of different denominations.

If you consider the position in Port-of-Spain Diego Martin
area, you will see the primary .schools there-I take that in
particular because some of the schools that are best known in
the country at primary and intermediate levels are in this area.
The Roman Catholics have 34 schools with 18,409 children of
whom 2,093 are Anglican. The Anglicans in their 14 schools
have 7,668 children of whom 1,448 are Roman Catholic; and
the Government has 11 schools in this area with 6,648 children,
of whom more than half are Catholic (3,464). 2,294 are Angli-
can and there are 75 Presbyterians and 147 Methodists.
Now, a lot of the parents here tonight are from Port-of.
Spain and Diego Martin. What happens is that Port-of-Spain and
Diego Martin parents follow the school not the religion. (Applause)
They follow Tranquillity.. Tranquillity has over 50% Roman Catho'ic
in the boys school, nearly 50% Roman. Catholic in the girls
school, and one-third of the boys and 40% of the girls at Tran-
quillity are Anglican.
They follow Moulton Hall which is neither Anglican nor
Presbyterian but a Methodist school. In my days as a boy one
used to hear about' Moulton Hall. Moulton Hall would couni
among the schools in Port-of-Spain and that area that have a
reputation and one-quarter of the enrolment in Moulton Hall is
Roman Catholic and 40% is Anglican. The Roman Catholics and
the Anglicans dominate the Eastern Boys' and Eastern Girls'
Schools. Everybody in South-East Port-of-Spain knows that be-
cause there are Catholics and Anglicans who dominate the popu-
lation of South-East Port-of-Spain, and the Roman Catholic
schools are dominated by a lot of people who are not Roman
Catholid. People go to Mucurapo Boys' and Girls' with a repu-
tation. There is a small proportion of non-Catholics in a place
like St. Theresa's or Providence or Belmont R.C. and so on.

Again, some of the schools have a tradition and have
developed a prestige over the years, and parents tend to follow
the school with the prestige and whilst it might happen tq be
a Catholic school etc., sometimes, as you know, they follow
the teacher, creating a lot of confusion in the country, sending
their children long distances because they say if teacher 'X'
were to teach the child, the child is going to pass the Common
Entrance Examination, (The audience : yes, yes) And sometimes
it is true with the Anglican schools-St. Crispin's or St. Ursula's
and perhaps on a smell scale All Saints-all established schools

that have a reputation in the eyes of the population and in the
eyes of the parents.
The parents therefore follow the school of their choice
and the school of their choice may cut across denomination.
at lines, and that ft the explanation of a lot that is happen-
kig in the secondary schools.
Secondary Schools
In the secondary school placings in the 1965 Common En-
trance Examination, there were 1,734 children placed in 17 Gov-
eryrment .schools; 1,084 placed in 11 Roman Catholic schools
Is this a matter of interest to the parents? Shall I carry on?
(Shouts of "Yes.") 336 were placed in 4 Anglican schools and
487 in 5 Presbyterian schools. And look at this now. The Roman
Catholic schools, 1,084 were placed in the 11 schools, 806 were
Catholic. They included Anglicans 79, Presbyterians 30, Hindus
110, Muslims 35. If you don't take in the Hindus and Muslims
which have no religious schools, no assisted secondary schools,
where on earth would they go ? The thing is very difficult for
people of a particular religious affiliation which does not con-
trol an assisted secondary school.
The Anglican school placings were 168 Anglicans people
placed in Anglican schools-27 Catholics, 8 Presbyterians, 36
Hindus. 28 Muslims. And in the Presbyterian schools, just as in
the primary schools, the largest single religious group in the
Presbyterian school is not P:rsbyterian, it is Hindu. Of the 487
placed in the schools 138 were Presbyterian and 184 were Hindu,
55 were Roman. Catholics and 77 Anglican.
And then there are the Government Schools just
listen to them Roman Catholics- 624, six hundred and
twenty-four Roman Catholics in Government secondary
schools, 410 Anglicans, 69 Presbyterians, 332 Hindus, 122
Muslims, 48 Methodists, 17 Moravians, 13 Baptists, 43 Seven Day
Adventists, 50 others.
Would it be unreasonable for me to conclude, ladies
and gentlemen, -that the principal agency for the integration
of the population of Trinidad & Tobago is today the Gov.
ernment secondary school ? (Loud and prolonged applause)
Parents' God Given Right
And now the question that I really wanted to deal with be-
cause there are so many parents here js the argument, the far-
tlwr criticism that the parent has a constitutional and sometimes
they say a God given right to send his child to a school of his
own choice. I happen to agree with that. But forget that for the
moment and let us examine the situation. You want the parent's
choice? What choice did the parent have in 1965?
.First and foremost, you come up against this argument
about the Concordat; 80-20. The Concordat says they would make

available 80 per cent of the places and then the 20 per cent
would be in the discretion of the principals-or that's not the
phrase, they didn't say, "in their discretion" 20 per cent
would normally be taken from the pass list. I don't understand
Mr. Pierre hasn't fully explained to me, just how we got into
this predicament, shall we say, because as I understand the ques-
tion, the Principals now caim that they must select the 80 ner
cent and still must select the 20 per cent. I have no objection
to their saying that, but I understand that they said that that
is what Cabinet meant by this 80-20 and that is where I
come in. because I was the Chairman of the Cabinet tfat
decided this matter and I categorically deny before this public
audience that the Cabinet when it said 80-20 meant 0-100. I
categorically deny it' We meant that 80 per cent would be placed
by the Minister and 20 per cent by the Principals. And I say
tonight, since this iS a Cabinet decision and I am the Chairman
of the Cabinet, I say Cabinet meant 80 by the Minister and
20 by the principal, and I so rule. The matter is closed. (Ap-
The system that has grown up has allowed the first 500
students to choose their school. Nobody interferes with it. So
I spent many nights, late nights last week working on these
figures. I got the Minister of Education to give me the results
of the Common Entrance Examination. I have a lot of them
here but I can't give them out to you. The Ministry has ruled,
quite correctly, that you shouldn't give out the marks and so
on, and I don't particularly want to identify the schools and
sd on. Sometimes I have to but I don't think it as necessary for
me to say too much in terms of particular schools tonight and
I would express the hope that it wouldn't be necessary for me
at any time to say too much about any particular school. I am
dealing with a principle, a matter of public policy, and one can
do that without name-calling.
I must have gone through half the records of all the 3,700
students. It was a tiresome exercise, especially when you have
to lean over on a chair and I was trying to be comfortable etc.
and my back is not s6 strong nowadays. (Laughter). I don't know
why. all of you are laughing. I can still stand up (laughter)
and speak from a public platform and as long as you
all want to be here tonight I could stay here tonight. (More
The 500, ladies and gentlemen, are completely free. The
parents have a completely uninhibited choice. So I thought I
would look through the list of the first 500 students who gained
very high marks indeed; quite commendable. They will be
credits to secondary schools in any country. Of the first 503
persons-I say 503 because they were all bunched up together
in the marks-of the first 503 the religious affiliation was as

follows:-- 223 Roman Catholic, 95 Anglican, 59 Presbyterian.
Perhaps every now and then I made a little mistake, I skipped
a line etc. and the figures may be one out or so but I think
we have something there that we haven't had before. I told
Mr. Pierre about it and I think I am going to turn all these
figures and all the work sheets over to the Statistical Office of
the Government for an analysis that would conceal a particular
school or certainly would conceal the students' names and this
would be published as a matter of general interest.
223 Catholic, 95 Anglican, 59 Presbyterian, 72 Hindu, 26
Muslim. And as for the smaller groups, Seventh Day Adventist 7,
Jehovah's Witness 3, Methodist 9, others 9. What are you saying
"Oh !" for? (Laughter). You have Jehovah's Witnesses in
Trinidad. You believe that Jehovah's Witnesses don't have child-
ren who can pass the Common Entrance Examination? What
you saying "Oh !" about ? I find you fast! (Loud laughter).
Ladies and gentlemen, these are the parents, those are the
religious affiliations of the parents whose children came in the
first 503 places. And what school, did they choose? They were
absolutely free to choose. 306 chose Roman Catholic schools,
schools, where only 223 Roman Catholics figure in the religious
affiliation. 71 chose Anglican schools where 95 Anglicans figure
in the affiliation. 72 chose Presbyterian schools with only 59
Presbyterians in terms of the religious affiliation, and 50 chose
Government schools. And the Hindus had to take one of the
four sets of schools, and the Muslims had to take one of the
four sets, and Jehovah's Witness had to go either to the Catholic
or to Anglican or Presbyterian or to Government. They were
absolutely free to choose. I missed out some. I think it's because
I left out the Tobago children here in terms of choice of school.
A lot of them went to Tobago. So I had 499 parents' choices
as compared with 503 parents by religious affiliation. They take
the Catholic Schools.
Something told me to check on the second 500, people with
very high marks indeed. What did the parents choose for them ?
And to what extent were they able to achieve their choice ? The
first group of people merely had to say school 'X' and the child
had to be admitted to school 'X'.
The second group because of the bunching up of the names
with the same mark total 517 of whom 216 were Catholics, 102
Anglican, 33 Presbyterian, 94 Hindus. 47 Muslims, I did not
bother in terms of this exercise to get the smaller denomina-
tions. What schools did these choose ? 234 of them, more than
the Catholic children alone, chose a Roman Catholic school. 102
in the second 500 were Anglicans, 58 chose an Anglican school.
33 were Presbyterian but 101 chose Presbyterian schools; and
123 chose the Government School and in most cases they got

their choice. Good marks, good students, etc., just under the first
500 and in all but 4 or 5 cases, one or two of them very re-
grettable, the parent's choice prevailed.

So one might say tonight that in terms of 1,000 odd stud-
ents, 1,020 to be precise, out of 3,700, the parent has the abso-
lute right to choose in respect of the first 500; and in most
cases whilst he had no such absolute right in the second 500,
his choice did prevail.

What school did the parent chose ? I looked through the
names of the different schools and it is clear that the parents
of Trinidad and Tobago, at least the parents of the first 1,020
children, have a certain attitude to the different schools of the
country that might be reflected so to speak in an order of merit
for the schools. I will mix them up, boys and girls, but you
would be able to differentiate. These are the number of parents
choosing the schools. School one-Saint Mary's Col'ege. School
two-Bishop Anstey's High School. Saint Mary's College had 157
choices out of 1,020. Bishop Anstey had 91. School three-Saint
Joseph's Convent Port-of-Spain, 90 choices. In most cases as I
have said the parents got their choice. School four-Presentation
College, San Fernando, 88. School five-Saint Joseph's Convent
San Fernando, 81. School six--Queen's Royal College, 57, with
Presentation College, Chaguanas, 57. Next in line St. Augustine
Girls' 56. Next one Naparima Girls', 49. Next one Saint George's,
the Government school, 33. Saint Joseph's Convent, St. Joseph
30, with Trinity 30; and the last in what I call the 13 top schools
(I didn't want to limit the list to 5 or 6, I wanted to spread it
a bit) the last Naparima College, 27.

This is the school the parents choose. When you look
through the list a little more carefully you will see what the,
parents' choice really means. Because of the 157 parents who
chose Saint Mary's College, 30 are non-Roman Catholic; with
8 Presbyterians, 11 Anglicans, 3 Muslims, 5 Hindus and three
of the smaller denominations. The second' school was what--
Bishop's, Bishop Anstey, 91 in all in the first 1,020 students;
44 are non-Anglican. So that the denominational character of this
Anglican School is such that one out of every two pupils, or
shall we say one out of every two parents selecting Bishop's
High School, is non-Anglican. If he is a non-Anglican what is
he? 18 Roman Ca holics select Bishop Anstey's High School,
8 Presbyterians, 4 Hindus, 4 Muslims, 10 others.

School three-is the St. Joseph's Convent, P.O.S., essentially
a Catholic school, except for 5 Anglicans and 4 Hindus. School
four-Presentation College, San Fernando, 88 parents selected
Presentation College, San Fernando. Of those 88, ladies and
gentlemen, 54 are non-Roman Catholic. More non-Roman Catho.

lics select Presentation, San Fernando than Roman Catholics.
The non-Roman Catholics are Anglicans, 17; Presbyterians, 10;
Muslims, 10; Hindus, 14; 3 others. School five-St. Joseph's Con-
vent, San Fernando-21 out of 81 are non-Roman Catholics,
18 being Anglican. So you find a Roman Catholic parent choes-
ing Bishop Anstey's High School, and an Anglican parent choos-
ing St. Joseph's Convent, San Fernando. Mixing up. They are
not going to their own schools, they are going to each other's
schools. And Q.R.C., everybody: 8 Catholics chose Q.R.C., 27
Anglicans, 6 Hindus, 4 Muslims, 3 Presbyterians, 9 others.

The most curious of the schools in respect of this argument
about parents' choice and the denominational character, is Pre.
sentation College, Chaguanas, which took in 57 students. Of those
57 students, ladies and gentlemen, 7 were Roman
Catholics. (laughter) 50 out of 57 were non-Catholics. Of the
50, 38 were Hindus and 8 were Muslims and so on down the
So that the parent's choice today means that Presen-
tation College, Chaquanas is a Roman Catholic school run
principally for HTndu boys. (Laughter). The parent's choice
today means that St. Augustine Girls' which I did not give
you (out of 56 that they took in, only 10 were Presbyterians,
26 were Hindus, and 8 Muslims), so that St. Augustine Girls
is a Presbyterian school run principally for Hindu girls.
Similarly, Naparima Girls, a Presbyterian school, is run
principally for Hindus, Muslim and Angelican girls. Naparima
is a Presbyterian school run principally for Hindu boys.
Bishop Anstey's High School is an Anglican school as popu-
lar with non-Anqgicans as it is with Anglicans. Presentation
College in San Fernando is a Catholic school more popular
with non-Roman Catholics thcn with Catholics, and so on
down the line.
In looking through all theseparents' choices I came up
against these 1,020 parents of whom 394 chose, of their own free
will (and in most cases, 99 per cent of the cases, they got their
choice), they chose a non-denominational school. By that I mean
a school of a different denomination or a government school.
4 out of every ten parents in the first 1,000 children do not
choose a school of the religious denomination to which they be-
long. The crossing of the denominational boundary line is most
astonishing-how the Catholics choose the Anglican schools, and
how the Anglicans choose the government schools and so on;
and then of course the Hindus and Muslims with no schools
of their own have to go where best they can. Fortunately in
the first 500 nobody can keep them out because that is the tra.
I wanted to know, ladies and gentlemen, where these 500
parents come from, what part of the country do they live in.
35 :

--------- -- --- -- ---r r~i-i rxr~i:~l~ Ell"~l~:CE~

This was very tiresome, and I couldn't get very far. But I was
able to identify the residence cf 44 of the first 500 who chose
9t. Mary's, and I looked at 18 who chose Bishop Anstey,
and I looked at 22 who chose St. Joseph's Convent.
Take St. Mary's-they come from Mt. Lambert and Champs
F.eurs, Petit Valley and Diego Martin, San Juan, South East
Port-of-Spain. 4 came from South East Port-of-Spain. Laventille,
1; Cascade, 1; Barataria, 3; Woodbrook, 3; MaravaL 1; Richmond
Street, 1; Victoria Avenue, 1; Curepe, 2; Belmont and Gonzales,
6; Arouca, 1; St. James, 3; Goodword Park, 3; La Brea 1; To-
bago, 1-(why you want to cheat the Tobago boys ? What for ?
Who are you laughing at, Tobago or La Brea?) Arima, 2; Santa
Cruz, 1; Carapichaima, 1. Look at the spread all over the coun-
try from Tobago right down to La Brea. And I looked only at

And in Bishop Anstey's High School, 18 names-Mt. Lam.
bert, Petit Valley and Diego Martin, South East Port-of-Spain,
Tunapuna, San Fernando, Chaguanas, Arima, Newtown, Curepe,
Be'mont and Gonzales, Arouca, St. James, La Brea. St. Ann's;
Ellerslie and Federation Parks, and Maraval. And St. Joseph's
Convent. Where do they come from ? Out of 22 names I have,
the largest number came from Mt. Lambert and Champs Fleurs,
4; Petit Valley and Diego Martin, 2; San Juan 1; South East
Port-of-Spain, 2; Laventille, 1; Arima, 1; East Dry River, 1
(imagine that! East Dry River gets in East Dry River gets in
because it is in the first 500. East Dry River.would not have
got in if it had not got into the first 500. It wouldn't have got
into any school that it asked for, as I shall deal with in a mo-
ment); Cascade, 2; Barataria, 1; Woodbrook, 3; Belmont and
Gonzales, 2; St. James, 1; Federation Park and Ellerslie Park 1.
That is the first 500. I did about 84 names out of the 500. And
as you have seen, I think that's enough to show you the spread,
the social spread, the geographical diversity.

When you go lower down the line, what happens ? I dealt
with the first 1,000. When you skip 1,000 names and go now to
the third 1,000 or at the bottom of the second 1,000, what hap-
pens ? It is a little long to go through this, but certainly I went
through the names of 171 Roman Catholic parents, 77 Angli-
cans, 24 Presbyterians, 101 Hindus. 32 Muslims--a total of 429:
until the figures were swimming in front of my eyes, late at
night. And you find what emerges there is that where the parent
chooses a government school there is more likelihood that its
choice would be achieved, less likelihood that his choice would
be frustrated, than if he chose another school. I will give you
an example : the Roman Catholic parents, 171, 36 of them got
their first choice and 11 got the second. When it comes to those
who did not get their choice (and you understand that ornas-
times the parents would get neither first nor second choice

so that the parents would tend to be counted twice, if you
didn't get your first, if you didn't get your second, and I didn't
bother with the third choice), 99 Roman Catholic parents did
not get their first choice and 61 did not get their second. Com-
pare that with 12 Roman Catholics who got their first choice
in a government school and 4 their second as against 5 who
did not achieve their first choice in a government school, and
17 the second choice. It would take a little too long to go
through but down the line it goes.
In terms of achievement the figures on the Government side
are higher. They achieved their choice more in the government
school. In terms of rejection, the government figures are lower,
they are less rejected where they have chosen the government
schools, and you have seen from the figures I gave you before
that, especially in the second 500, a substantial number choose
a government school. So what I wanted to find out was why
this large measure of rejection. Where the first 500 got in, nod
body could say anything. The second 500, presumably because
of the brilliance of their performance, for the most part got in.
When you got down the line, I decided to investigate some
cases and here I'would like to tell you briefly something about
it but I don't want to call any names. I would just say school

School 'A'-I considered 15. School 'A' is a Roman Catholic
school and I considered the performance of 15 boys, every one
of them Roman Catholics. And for the most part the selection,
the parents' choice was first choice Roman Catholic school,
second choice-Roman tatholic school, third choice might be a
government school or it might be an Anglican school, it varied.
In some cases they gave only two choices. In one case they
gave only one choice. I don't want to give the marks because
I think the Minister is quite right to say that he wouldn't give
the marks Supposing we just said, because you wou'd like to
know what are the marks, how the students compare; supposing
I said that of these 15 students, 3 had 43 marks, 2 had 42, 3
had 41, 4 had 39, 1 had 32 and 2 had 27. The difference bet-
ween the first group of 3 and the last group of 2 is 16 marks,
in an examination where you are dealing with 3,750 and at cer-
tain levels a mass of students are bunched together with the
same marks.
Of the boys with 43 marks, one lived in Belmont one lived
in Rosalino Street in Woodbrook, and one lived in Lady Chancel-
lor Road. The school selected one of the boys with 43. The boy
that was'selected was not the boy from Belmont The boy that
was, selected 'was not the boy from Woodbrook. The boy that
was selected was the boy from Lady Chancellor Road. (loud
laughter) The 2 boys -with 42 were not selected. One was from
Belmont and one was from Point Cumana. The boys with 41

were not selected. One was from East Dry River, one was from
Belmont, and one was from Tragarete Road. There were 4 boys
with 39-one came from Belmont Circular Road, he was not
selected. The 3 others with 39 were selected when the boys with
43 was not selected. The three others with 39 lived in Good-
wood Park, Sydenham Avenue and Fairview, Diego Martin.
(much excitement).
And as if that was not enough, when a boy with 43 was
not selected and 3 boys with 39 were selected, one boy who got
32, 11 behind the top boys that we are dealing with now, who lives
in Schneider Gardens, Petit Valley and he was selected. As if
that was not enough, the two boys who got 27, 16 behind, one
came from Basilon Street and obviously he was not selected,
but the other came from out of Port-of-Spain, which I really
could not understand, he was selected. I could not understand
the selection of a boy 16 marks behind, until I saw the parent's
name. If I quote the parent's name here in this University
tonight everybody would understand what is involved (shouts
of "Name him!" "give the name"). I will. take a second school
which I call school 'B'-a school for girls, Catholic. Again, three
of the students got 43, two got (you see how they are bunching
up) two got 42, two got 41, two got 39, one got 38, and the
students with 43 came from various places, one from Santa
Cruz (I must say I didn't understand this one at all), one
from Arima, one of the different ones, one is from East Dry
River who didn't get in. One from Saint James didn't get in,
another from Saint James didn't get in, another from Belmont
didn't get in, one from Santa Cruz didn't get in, O'Meara Road,
Arima, no. East Dry River no, Barataria 9th Avenue no, Curepe
no, and then the girl with the lowest mark in this group 38,
gets in from Long Circular Road, the girl with. 39 gets in, and
it's Arima, so no doubt a special section of Arima, one with 40
gets in from a particular area of San Juan. Mr. Wallace tells
me it's not where he lives, anyway. (Laughter).
Take school 'C' now, an Anglican School for girls and again
this was a very bad case, a' very bad case indeed. You had a
bunch of girls here, I have got 10, the marks went from 43
to 25. The highest was 43, the lowest 25. The'43 girls, one comes
from Diego Martin, not accepted. (O'Halloran, you are in diffi-
culty boy). (Laughter). Another one of 43 but from a particu-
lar section of Arima, which I think I know, got in. One got 6
less than the top mark in this group I am talking about. The
girl was a Roman Catholic, this is an Anglican school. She was
taken in because she came from Ellerslie Park. (Laughter). One
that was much higher from Tunapuna no, one much higher
from Abbe Poujade Street, Carenage. (O'Halloran, you are
catching hell, boy, you are getting, a lot of licks here tonight)..
(Laughter). One from South East Port-of-Spain, Charlotte Street,
no go. Another from Belle Vue, no go. One from East Dry River
/ ~ ~ ~ ~ : 5. '*,,. .

(Teshea and myself, boy, no go.) First Street Barataria, no go.
But the lowest mark of all in this group from another undoub-
tedly aristocratic section of Walace's Constituency, San Juan,
18 marks behind gets in. I cannot pretend to understand why
it is, but what I do know is that when you reach a certain
level in this, it is not that there is not room in the schools, it
is that the parent's choice is determined by other considerations.
If I show you what it is in respect of an Anglican Boys
School you might be able to see the picture more clearly than
you have seen it before. There are 6 boys here. Two of them
are at 41, both come from Laventille, both are Anglicans. They
don't get in, but another boy gets 38, he comes from Saint
Ann's Road, he gets ,in. One gets 25, way down, he comes from
out of town, but when you look at his name, he gets in. The
name gets him in. Then came two others that are fairly good
at 39 and 38. One is the Saddle Road and one is Maraval. Both
get in to the Anglican school, but both are Roman Catholics.
So that you reject the Laventille boys, with the higher marks who
are Anglican, for the Roman Catholic boys with a lower mark who
are from Maraval and the Saddle Road.

I don't know, ladies and gentlemen. I could only come
to one conclusion with all of this, as far as the parent's choice
is concerned. I tell you, the parent follows the school and not
the denomination. If he had free and unfettered choice with
the first 500, he got his way.. When the Principals choose-be-
cause, please understand, in the case of one of these schools
here, the girls' school that I talked about one of the parents
objected in the most strenuous terms to the Ministry of Edu-
cation. He said another child, a friend of his daughter's, had
got the same mark or he thought it was the same mark. Their
names were published together. They had been to the same
school, they both passed, one child was sent somewhere and his
was sent somewhere else, aid he complained to the Minister,
saying that the child had been making it clear to everybody
who wanted to listen that her father was not taking that and
her father worked in a certain place, a Government office, and
he was going to use his influence, that is to say, he had a
contact, (laughter) and he was going to use his influence to
get his child into the school that both parents wanted their
child to go to. And the parent wrote, the one who was rejected,
saying you put my daughter in that school, I accept, I am very
glad to get my daughter in a school, but I protest against this
discrimination. You, Mr. Minister, are discriminating against my
child and you are giving the preference to sombodir who works
in a Government office and is a Civil Servant.

It is a good complaint, enjoying the right of citizen. The
citizen made one mistake and both Mr. Pierre and I know the
man very well. The citizen made one mistake. The decision had

not been made by Mr. Pierre in the first place and the transfer
that was arranged had not been done by anybody in the Ministry
of Education and Culture. This had been done in collaboration
with the Principals of the schools, who pick and choose.
When the Principa's choose, the parent's choice is more
honoured in the breach than the observance. The parent is more
likely-lower down the scale in the 3,750-to get his choice
satisfied or not to get his choice frustrated if he goes to a Gov-
ernment school. And in the final analysis his religious affilia-
tion, the aptitude of his child, the right of a parent to choose
the school of his child, are as dust in the balance when com-
pared with the parent's lack of social status. (Applause)
It is not a religious question at all. It is not an edu-
cation issue. In fact, every law of examinations and results
is violated Ly deviating from the pass list and giving the
child with a higher position on the order of merit a lower
status in terms of its freedom to choose. It is neither reli
gious nor educational. It is nothing but blasted social dis-
crimination in this place. (Loud applause).
If it were a private school, what to do, what to do? Forty
years ago when this matter was brought up in Trinidad it was
nearly made a huge public issue. It was raised by the father of
one of the prominent members of the P.N.M. discrimination
against his child on grounds of race and colour at an assisted sec-
ondary school. And the parent took the matter to the Director of
Education who then had no qualifications at all, and the Director
of Education indicated that in respect of the powers and respon-
sibilities of the Government, they were limited to making a
grant to the school and inspecting the school from time to. time.
It was not a matter for the Director or the Education Board, and
if the parent didn't like it he just simply had to remove his
child from the school.
These are the records of Trinidad and Tobago. It is unthink-
able that anybody could say that in 1965 in the age of indepen-
dence and in the age of the national community. If private funds.
were involved, if it was a private institution, well; what to do?
But it is not; it is an institution financed from public funds and
it is an institution taking in people on the basis of an agreement
with the Government as a part of the expansion of secondary
I don't want to anticipate the conclusions of the Cabinet in
this matter. Some of my colleagues are hearing of these figures
for the first time. I have been working on them for the last few
days but I think it is just possible to suggest some tentative con-
clusions for your consideration. I know how much you are inter-
ested in this particular issue. It suggests in the first place -
I think I had better put it even a little more tentatively than that.
It is possible that one of the ways in which this matter might be
40 :

i -

handled might be to increase the number of 500 in which the
parent is free to choose to, say, 1,000 and make absolutely certain
that some parents have completely free choice. (Loud applause)
In other words, give the first 1,000 parents the right to choose
No principal, no Minister, nobody-just give the parents the right
to choose personally. (Loud applause)
Then the regUlations that we have published say very clearly
that the Minister must choose the 80 per cent and so on, which
would explain-it is because he doesn't do that now that I could
understand what you parents are bothered about. Now I under-
stand why you parents have been complaining so much. The
Minister tells me what happens is these lists used to circulate and
then Principal 'A' says, "I'i take this one," Principal 'B' says, "I
take this one", etc. and then the Government comes in at the end
like the housewife going to market late in the afternoon to buy
the meat at low price and so on because it is the left-overs
(Laughter) That's all right for the market and for the'housewife.
This is public funds and public citizens whose right to a life with-
out discrimination is guaranteed in the Constitution of Trinidad
and Tobago. (Applause)
All the people talking about constitution don't talk about
these rights ot every citizens, ycung and o'd, to live a life without
discrimination. So that with the Minister simply selecting people
and putting them here, there and everywhere, it will stop the
haggling and it will stop the delay. That is why parents haven't
been able to get the results before. You have been blaming the
wrong people. It's not the Ministry, not the Minister; not the
Ministry of Education, simply the Principals.
And then it's clear that perhaps we shall have to consider
some control over this remaining 20 per cent because it sud-
denly struck us as some of the Cabinet members were consider-
ing this afternoon, some of our work with the Cabinet committee,
that in actual fact, if a foreigner came here and in some way
we thought that we should leave a little discretion to the Princi-
pals, (when we signed this agreement in 1960 we said well, we
might have foreign representatives here, we might have our
people abroad and we have to give as much as they give us. And
then you have people coming in here from abroad who say that
Trinidad is a good place to learn English and it is part of the
international reputation of the country. We said, let's allow a
little and so on), it suddenly dawned on us that we had no rea-
son whatsoever in Trinidad and Tobago to have public funds
spent on these. people, some of whom might be non-nationals,
except perhaps m the context of a diplomatic exchange because
our marn in Ottawa has his children going to an Ottawa school
free. Then of course another Ambassador coming down here
would have certain rights. We think we would have to look into
that matter.

I believe in the final analysis, ladies and gentlemen, and
I have had a talk to Donald Pierre about this-I believe in the
final analysis that this matter has become such a burning issue
in the country and some of us have become so fed-up with
what we have seen here that we are going to say--4I am cer-
tainly going to put that before my colleagues, when all this
thing is done by Minister and done by Principal and I think the
Minister must have the right to intervene in whatever discre-
tion you give the principal in order to protect a child from un-
due hardship (you remember the Gasparillo child being sent
to South-East Port-of-Spain; you remember the case of
the Couva ghild bbing sent to Rio C'aro. Why do
you think that child was sent there ? Because they
dumped her in the Minister's lap. Excuse me, I don't mean
that [Laughter]. I had better not say that about the Minister.
They cuss you enough without that. If I say that they put a girl
in your lap, boy ... [Laughter]. You won't live that down at all.
You won't live that down for some time).
They dumped the problem in the Minister's lap. The schools
around won't take the girl and the Minister has to say: the only
place where I can squeeze you in is this school. It is utterly
impossible that we should continue that. I think that whilst we
leave it with the Minister etc. I am going to have to say that in
the final analysis the supreme defence of citizens' rights in this
country is the Cabinet of Trinidad and Tobago, and the entire
list prepared by the Minister of Education must be done year by
year and submitted for the formal approval of the Cabinet which
au'horises the public funds. (Applause).

One Very Good Sign
There is one very good sign in all of this and I want to
issue a warning to all you parents. Remember the fundamental
problem is that St. Mary's College is recognized, appreciated
by the parents. It takes a lot to make a school. In my day what
one associated St. Mary's College with was McVicar. All these
little fellows playing around the place today, the older ones of
my age would know what McVicar meant. That meant some-
thing. I was a boy at Queen's Royal College when to everybody
Queen's Royal College meant double blues at Cambridge and
meant a man placing first in the first-class in the law examina-
tion so that he could later become Chief Justice of Trinidad and
Tobago. That is what Q.R.C. meant. That is what St. Mary's
meant. A lot of success big names, etc. and the public think
of that.
What is the most gratifying impression that I have got
from the names that I have looked at is the number of
parents who had as their first choice demanded the new
Government secondary school.
I am not talking about Q.R.C. I am not talking about St:
42 .

George's I am talking about Woodbrook. I am talking about San
Juan, I am talking about Tunapuna and Sangre Grande and
Point Fortin and Rio Claro, and St. James also and Diego Martin
and San Fernando as appeared on the list.-The parents who
have demanded the neighbourhood school, the school in their.
area, which we have been trying to build up, using Queen's
Royal College as the mother school. It is not that Queen's
Royal College has gone down. That is sheer nonsense. It is that
Queen's Royal College has sent up the standard in all the
daughter schools that have been founded all over the country.
The Government cannot possibly concentrate on a policy
which builds up one school to the exclusion of others. It is a
great pity that some of the denominational schools seem to be
doing that and seem to think that they could talk about an ex-
clusive school in an inclusive state. The thing can't work. You
are working for the whole country and one must recognise-
even the most, particularly the most, favoured sections of the
community their responsibility to the less favoured section
which is what we have done deliberately and consciously in re-
spect of the teaching staff at Queen's Royal College. This always
I was at St. James today. St. James just began taking the
G.C.E. A few people tried their hand at it last year. The period
I am talking about with McVicar and Wooding is forty years
ago, 40 -35 years ago, and this is a school four years old. What
chance has it had to get any roll of honour? What chance has
it had to win any scholarship? It hasn't even as yet taken the
General Certificate of Education. It takes a certain amount of
time. It takes time to build up the school. Some of the schools
are not even complete. The new universities developing all over
England-you should see them growing, like the new universi-
ties that are being built in America, running away from these
big names on the Atlantic seaboard and concentrating specifi-
ca ly, consciously and deliberately, on the state universe y in the
state capital to serve the state, as the new secondary school here
is being deliberately built up taking secondary education to the
people virtually on their doorstep, reducing the amount of travel
that the child has to undertake in order to get to and from the
One of the finest signs, and I expect it to grow because
it is exactly what happens in England with the new university,
a new class of person going to a university for the first time,
kept out for generations from these old universities, saying,
"Ah, to hell with them, man. They are exclusive? Let them
stay exclusive. I do not want any part of them. I am going to the
new university." And some of the teachers in the old established
university seeing that they could get an opportunity for experi-
mentation and development and promotion of their own particu
lar interest, rushing out to service these new universities. And
what else ? To get promotion that they could not get at the old

established university. A lecturer at Oxford becoming Professor
and head of a department in a new school, untold opportunities
to expand and to develop and to say, "I will try this out." I have
never in all my life imagined that it was possible for any set of
universities to experiment and introduce innovations into a cur-
riculum as is going on in England today; a combination of sub-
jects at different levels, and I hear all sorts of ignoramuses talk-
ing here about curriculum in Trinidad. What the hell do some
of them know about it ?
I don't want to be specific about this, the Cabinet might
have different ideas. I will put it this way : I think we are going
to have to keep a careful watch, a more careful watch on the
denominational schools from now on. Mr. Maraj writes for the
Mahasabha and criticises the Government and says "You have
not given us Hindu schools". Well, they have one. And there
are two Muslim schools that are claiming recognition and one
Baptist school built in an out-of-the-way p'rt of the country,
down ;n Fifth ComDany, where nolteo wou!' take a school and
I understand that it is quite a good school. But you see the
problem that we faoe ? If now you find yourselves taken by
surprise about the denominational character and Concordat, etc.,
I for one am going to think twice and more than twice before
t get myself into any hot water by encouraging any more schools
that will come and say "Concordat" though they never signed
the Concordat.
0 No, no, no. It is the Government schools thdt integrate.
It is a pity that it should be so because these schools have a
contribution to mmke. They are making one but they cannot ex-
pect ,to make it outside of the social perspectives of the country.
They cannot expect to be exclusive, they cannot expect that
they must pick and choose when they don't have any room for
all the people who think highly of them... But for God's sake
whatever discrimination you practice, don't make it discrimination
on social grounds or because the boy lives in East 'Dry River or
the girl lives up in Gonzales. Not with public funds. Ask me to
do a lot, but don't ask me to negotiate with anybody-I refuse
to negotiate with anybody-the, rights and privileges of every
citizen of Trinidad and Tobago irrespective of religion, race,
social status, language, previous conditions of servitude and all
the rest. (Loud applause).

Exam Results In Bible Knowledge
They have said the Act removes religious instruction from
the curriculum. That is not so. It does not. They say "but 'don't
put it in the Regulations, put it in the Act." That is not the point
ladies and gentlemen. I thought from what was being said
on this subject-I asked my friend Donald, Donald Pierre:
I said "Donald, how many children take.religious instruction in
44 .

the General Certificate of Education examination ?" It wsed to
be a great subject in my day and it was quite a subject when
you had to study the Acts of the Apostles and one of the Gos-
pels, etc. You had to know them. And I asked for the results
in-what is it called What is the subject called ?-Bible Know-
ledge. They used to call it something else in my day. And I
was quite astonished in view of what was being said, to see the
I see of a'I the students in Fatima, 63, took the exam..
twelve passed. Naparima College: 66 took the exam.-I would
have expected many more-17 passed. Hillview: 74 took the
exam., 13 passed. St. Benedict's in La Romain, 76 took the exam.,
14 passed. (Laughter) Presentation in Chaguanas, 42 sat, eleven
passed. H61y Cross 27, seven passed: Bishop Anstey 40 sat, 14
passed; Holy Name and Holy Faith much better 65: 30; 70:49;
Naparima Girls, about the best: 128 sat, 90 passed. St. Augus-
tine Girls 84:27; St. Joseph Convent, San Fernando: 38 sat,
31 passed; St. Stephen's in Princes Town, 75 sat, 12 passed.
(Laughter). What do you expect ? Stephen doesn't know any
Bible Knowledge. You must expect that. (Laughter).

And then I looked for the two leading schools.. Presentation
College, San Fernando, takes an external examination and its
results are not yet here. So it is blank. I don't know what its
results are.) I looked for St. Mary's and Q.R.C. and I really
had to laugh when I saw St. Mary's: five students sat the exam
and two passed. (Laughter). The only school that did better
than St. Mary's was Q.R.C.-a hundred per cent success. Two
students sat-and both failed. (Loud laughter).
I had to say, ladies and gentlemen, "but it is unbelievable,
maybe '64 was a bad year, let me see the results iin '65." Fatima
had improved, not so much in people taking it but the people
passing it : 22 out of 66. Naparima 30 out of 100, a slight im-
provement; if they keep on trying they would get some where
soon. Hillview 11 out of 56; Holy Cross-good- 34 out of 56;
Presentation Chaguanas, 1 out of 24 daughterr) ; Holy Faith-
good-59 out of 89; Holy Name-better-50 out of 58; Naparima
Girls 66 out of 148. St. Augustine Girls 39 out of 106; St.
Stephen's did a lot better-54 out of 127.
But it looked as though some of the other schools thought
better of it. St. Benedict's didn't send up anybody so it was
very successful (laughter) and St. Mary's sent up nobody so
nobody passed, nobody failed. (laughter). I don't have the
figures for Q.R.C. for '65. But the general position is that less
than one quarter of all the students who took the examination
took Bible Knowledge, and of those who took it half passed
and half failed. I would have thought that for all that has been
said the results would have been a little better, and I think

that the Minister of Education ought to take a look into this
question because this is not to the credit of ,the country.
Because if you are going to have religious instruction in
the curriculum and in the time-table, and so on, and it is going
to be an examination subject, I think the Minister should insti-
tute a special inquiry into the teaching of Bible Knowledge or
religious instruction in all the schools, with particular reference
to the unsatisfactory results in examinations, except in respect
of some of the girls' schools. It looks as if Bible Knowledge is
Sa subject for girls and that is not what the Ggvernment intended
when it agreed that it should be included in the curriculum.
And it means now that if the children are all mixed up in
a country, where the parents are all mixed up, living in a part
of the country where the dominant religion is not the one to
which they subscribe if there is all this mixing up then it
seems to me that if we have said that religious instruction is
to be included in the curriculum of all schools we feel-at least
two of the denominations have written to us proposing appro-
riate amendments-we will have to reconsider, I believe, as a
Cabinet, the appropriate draft regulations in respect of the free.
dom of a denomination to enter a school of another denomina-
tion in order to give religious instruction to the children of
its own faith. (Applause).

Control Of Teachers
And now we come to the question of the Act taking away
the control of teachers from the Principals. I will deal with it
briefly. They say it puts them under the Minister and they
say, I understand, that that means that Hindus will be sent to
teach in Roman Catholic schools and Roman Catholic teachers
and nuns will be sent to teach in Muslim schools. Needless to
say that is not so.
In the first place the teachers are not being put under the
Minister at.all. The teachers are being put under the Public Ser-
vice Commission and it is exactly in accordance with the Consti-
tution. And somebody wrote recently somewhere that this means
the Public Service Commission could delegate its authority to
any member or to a public officer or anybody, and that somebody
could be the Minister. It is just one of these constitutional in-
fants who does not know how to read the Constitution.
The Constitution doesn't say that at all. The Public Service
Commission could delegate its authority to any member or to a
public officer. It could have one member deal with something.
And when it says a publicofficer-the Minister is not a public of-
ficer. It means a civil servant in some particular Ministry and
that is to allow him to deal with, let us say, the discipline of sub-
46 ..

ordinate staff in, say, the Ministry of Public Utilities. It might
be the messenger staff or the telephone staff or something like

0 The Public Service Commission is one of the great bulwarks,
the great defences of the population of Trinidad and To-
bago, and certainly of the Public Service employees. And
people ought not-I do resent this, I do resent the facility
with which people who ought to know better have gone out
in public denigrating some of the particular constitutional
guarantees that we fought to put into the Constitution for
the protection of people of Trinidad and Tobago. They have
no right to say that about people who have no opportunity
to get up in public and answer.
If people saw members of the Public Service Commission
they wouldn't know them. They work very quietly. The average
person doesn't know where their office is. Nobody has any idea
of how much work they do or the number of cases that come
before them: promotions, appointments, transfers, disciplinary
cases involving dismissals. And we are piling up more work on
them. They have built up a certain amount of expertise in this
country and they know what it is to deal with staff at all levels.
This is a guarantee. It doesn't take anything from anybody
-this gives something to somebody, who doesn't have protection
now. And I am talking about protection in the sense of a public
servant paid out of public funds for performing a public service
-he gets that protection today. This is the intention-and the
intention is to bring them all within the scope of the constitu-
tional guarantees accorded to all other public servants in this
They control the Primary teachers now. They have been
doing it for years; nobody ever heard any,fuss. The procedure
by which they operate is well-known. Somebody wants a job in
a Roman Catholic school, he applies to the Roman Catholic Board
of Management. The Board of Management takes all the appli-
cations, comments on them, sends them to the Ministry which
has to certify to the facts-thfe\teacher said that he got a degree,
a certificate from the Training College in such and such a year,
the Minister looks up his record and says he did get it or he
didn't get it. And then the Minister sends it with the comments
he wants to make to the Public Service Commission which makes
the appointments within the recommendations of the Board.
If the Board asks for somebody to be transferred because
he changed his faith or because he got divorced or something,
which the Board says is inconsistent with their convictions and
beliefs, the teacher is removed. The Public Service Commission
makes one reservation, or perhaps two: they'must have a place
47 -

to transfer him. You can't leave him out in the cold. He can't
be drawing public funds when he is not in a MpSt. And then,
secondly, any transfer on those grounds is not a disciplinary
matter that leaves a stigma so that the man leaves with a black
mark against his name. He is being transferred on grounds of
incompatibility with the religious beliefs of the denomination
that he serves. So that when the man is moved he is not moved
as a disciplinary measure. It is not like the old days when they
sent him to Guyaguayare by way of punishment. He probably
is transferred to a Government school.
That system has been operating for four years-you never
heard a single word, you never heard a bit of fuss about it. And
the simple question is that if you are going to unify, if you are
going to have comparability of salaries in relation to qualification
etc., if the Priilcipals themselves ask for parity as we call it, you
can't have part parity and part non-parity Parity is parity.. You
can't be equal in part and not equal in another part. It doesn't
make sense. And the Principals themselves are paid from public
fusds (laughter) for performing a public service.

For example, I have here the figures for monthly salaries
for every school. St. Mary's College, we pay their staff, that is
clerical or lay, priests or nuns. We pay the Principal-because
of the system on which we operate, a school of a certain enrol.
ment-his salary is $700 a month. And the total clerical staff
gets $11,120 a month and the non-clerical staff $9,580. St. Mary's
salaries are $20.700 a month All Presbyterian salaries come to
$50,485 a month; all Catholic $106,433 a month; all Anglican
$271597 a4 mor(th making an annual total of $2,214,196.08
cents. And this is what is paid now.
And then Principals come and say they have written to the
Minister saying "but we are not like Government Secondary
School teachers, they 'get long leave; the Principals go to England
for six to nine months; we want long leave too". But how could
they say that they want the conditions we have, they want long
leave, and then say the staff doesn't get the conditions of sick
leave and maternity leave and so on that goes to the Government
teacher ? You can't have parity in one direction and not have
it in tlie other.
And then they make the very curious application to be con-
sidered by the Government as employers-I don't see how we
could take employees and make them employers. And I will
say this, subject to the Attorney General, I had no time to con-
sult with him-under the Industrial Stabilisation Act a union
has the right to claim to represent workers in a particular or-
ganisation, if they control fifty-one per cent of the workers ip
that undertaking. And the Government has unified the teaching
service. Then if the teachers' union suddenly intervenes to say
48 ..

that they represent 51 per cent, they are the bargaining body
for all teachers in the unified teaching service, who am I to
We will be the employer, we have no right to
interfere, as such we have to recognize. And they
could go to the Industrial Court, and they could go to the
Minister of Labour and demand that a count be taken, but who
wou'd they go to. who would be the employer, the Board or the
person paying ? Who would be the employer ? The person pay-
ing. But I mean we have to consider this-I am not being serious
about asking the Attorney General to give his opinion on an
important matter here in public, so that then you go and quote
it. This is a matter which the Attorney Generai will have to
The Government as the employer will have certain respon-
sibilities under the Industrial Stabilization Act-I don't say as
the employer-as the person paying them, and it is the first
time that I hear that the person pays but does not employ.
The Attorney General says under the Education Act the Perma-
nent Secretary, Ministry of Education would be deemed to be
the employer. Pardon me, under the I.S.A.--Oh God, you law-
yers are humbugging me! Under the I.S.A.
We can't just go about the place changing laws and saying
that it does not apply here there and everywhere, especially
ladies and gentlemen, when one of the Denominational Boards,
in respect of one of the Secondary Schools, the teachers, if you
please, are in a big fight with the Principal-have been for several
months and if you p'ease. they have appealed. Guess to whom?
To the Minister of Education and Culture who is supposed to
be the person being attacked by these Denominational Boards.
The teachers oppose the appointment of Principals in this de-
nomination stating that people are appointed Principals of
Secondary Schools who are not even qualified to be teachers
in the Secondary Schools. They have no qualifications.
What are we supposed to do in this situation ? Are we sup-
oosed to go classifying teachers on the basis of qualifica-
tions, then what would we pay a Principal who does not have
the qualifications ? I would hate to find out that we should
find ourselves in a position where we would have to go ahead
in this exercise of the Public Service Classification and Compen.
station and saying because of difficulties e'c. we would have to
proceed and suspend the operation of these procedures in res.
pect of teachers in assisted Scondary Schools. But one thine is
absolutely certain.-I don't want to anticipate Cabinet's decision
-w6 are not going to pay higher salaries and give a higher
status to persons who cannot show the requisite qualifications.
Text Books
There is another point that I wanted to take up here just
before we go. I know we have been at it a long time, but you

all said you want to hear it. Okay, all right. The point is made
that the Act would compel denominational schools to use text
books and teach subjects which are contrary to their religious
convictions and beliefs and they talk about Advisory
Committee. I wish people would only discuss matters that they
know about. I have served on a text book committee at Uni-
versities before, and this is a most important and difficult subject.
I have just been around to a school library and I was astonished
to see the type of book that was on the shelves. I had to take
away a bonk and say to the Principal, "What is the meaning
of this book on the shelf-where did this book come from?"
"Government money," he says to me. I don't see why Govern-
ment money should be spent on trash from Britain and America.
It happens to be on my subject. One of the worst books ever
published about the West Indies. And it appears financed by
Government funds in the library of a Government school. Who
put it there?
The question of a text book involves principally knowledge. One
of the senior civil servants in Trinidad gave me a couple days
ago a geography text book being used by his child in an assisted
school. I have the book here. I never in my life thought that
any Principal in a Secondary School in Trinidad would permit
this rubbish to be taught. If this got into the hands of the In-
dependent African States with whom we have friendly relations,
they would protest, and rightly so, against what the Government
of Trinidad and Tobago permits to be taught to its children in
its free Secondary Schools.
A top member of the PNM in Mr. O'Halloran's constituency,
a friend of mine, came to me the other day all agitated. Show-
ing me a book, he says, "What sort of Government are you all
--what's happening to you all? You see the text books that
are being used in the country?" And he says, "Look at page
35." I looked at Page 35 and it was splashed all over the page
with "Nigger, this, Nigger that, Nigger the other". Why the
devil? We didn't get power in the PNM to permit that., Man,
Mr. Pierre has to go and examine all these text books. I only
hope when he appoints a text book committee he puts mp on
it. (Laughter). I say, what are you all laughing about ? (Laugh-
ter). I served on a Committee before and some of the books
we buy here, you need somebody who knows what is the latest
in a particular field of knowledge.
I don't tell you he should make the selection, because he
doesn't know what a child of eleven ought to read. The Univer-
sity graduate or University teacher, 50 years old, is dealing with
a particular mental capacity. It is the teacher who lives with the
children in the class room-he must be able to identify the
book that is suited to the capacity of the particular infant. It
is a combination of the two. And who says that's a religious

question ? This is primarily a question of knowledge. I don't
know anybody on a text book committee who would go saying
this is the book to use. Well, for heaven's sake. Who says that
is the way to operate ? You give a list of books, but the Minister
steps in to say you don't change that book without permission.
I hear parents come to me and say that books are being changed
during the school year. No teacher changing a book during the
school year has any right to teach. (Applause). That's a bad
selection in the first place. Parents have come to me and said
that children have been made to go and buy the books at a
particular shop. (Laughter). Well, I never have heard of that
I never heard of that. I went through Oxford University
and I got the list of text books that I had to buy and I went
straight to a. book shop and said, "Where is your second hand
section"'? And I went to the second hand section and I bought
all the books second hand and every one of them had four
names in it. Some of the books, as soon as I got through my
examination, I went back, put the fifth name in it, and sold it,
and got a few shillings on it. I have some of the books at home
now. I kept them, I didn't sell them. Knowledge doesn't change
like this.

And it is well known that one of the great rackets is the
publishing business. I don't necessarily mean it with the people
here. I am talking internationally now. I was a teacher at a
University with power to approve text books and to suggest
text books to the University Committee, and at times when 'term
began I had to close my door and state that on no account
would I see any publisher's representative. You send me a sam-
ple of the book you want me to consider. Don't come besieging
me and telling me that we would give you it for so and so if
you buy so much. I was in it too. And you don't go changing
text books like that. Somebody must have the power.
We are trying to write West Indian text books. You want
to tell me you have a book on the West Indies, written specially
for West Indian schools, and some school getting public funds
is going to say that lit is not going to use that text book. We are
writing the text books in order to stop the use of foreign text
books written by foreigners who don't know about us and who
don't like us and care less about us. You have to do your own
text books.

Power To Change Curriculum
Then they say the Minister has the power to change the
curriculum But who else ? (Laughter). If we know that we have
to get people to go filling a lot of posts in technology and science
and the rest of it, how on earth ds that going to be done in the

future if you don't plan for it in the schools ? If we know that
you are likely to go and have closer relations with
Latin America where the basic language is Spanish, and that
would involve an essential emphasis in the Secondary schools on
Spanish as against some other foreign language, who is going
to carry that out but the Minister ? If you wanted to make pro-
vision for the shift System in certain schools, though that is
going to be a very difficult one to carry out, but -unless the
Minister has the power to organise how are we going to do it ?
You have to find positions for children 12 plus who didn't
get through the Common Entrance Examination and you try to
organise this course, that course. If the Minister doesn't do it
who is going to do it ? Who are you going to leave to do it,?
Somebody else ? The UNESCO people come here and say that
you must go and develop junior high schools at age twelve,
etc., etc., and it is a standard course twelve to fifteen, and then
they separate. You have to go building junior high schools all
about the place. Whose responsibility is that ? Whose but the
Minister, who is constitutionally responsible for the field of edu-
cation within the Cabinet, is responsible to Parliament and res-
ponsible to the country.
And then, the Minister and I are going on a tour of some
of the schools, and I ask some of the students to speak in French
and Spanish. I want to hear their pronunciation ec. It is just
possible that as the Minister told me, the question of a language
laboratory using records and the re3t of it might be too costly
in terms of all the schools. And we sat down this morning talk-
ing about it and said that perhaps we should experiment with a
mobile service which would go round to the schools and we
might use that as a part of a survey involving the greater use
of television and radio in schools.
I went to the World's Fair when I was in the United States
last year and the thing the American Government took me to
see particularly was all new developments in the field of edu-
cation going on and anticipated. What was obvious was the re-
duction of the role of the individual teacher and the substitution
of the expert who appears on television and who therefore
teaches them in several classes at a time. I think we have to go
and get the Americans-as they are in the lead in that. I think
what we need now is some survey that we could make with the
help of some American experts on this whole question of what
to do in terms of these secondary classes and bring them in
contact with better and more modern methods that might involve
language laboratories on a mobile basis and the greater use of
In other words, we have to look at a generation of children
in free secondary schools that are going to go into the twenty-

first century and you have a lot of people there that have gone
well back into the sixteenth and seventeenth century. The Min-
ister of Education must look forward and not backwards, and
he must have the necessary power to adapt the society and ad-
just it. When they want jobs afterwards, it is Pierre, myself
and O'Halloran and Richards whom they are coming to. It is
we who are going to be judged by our capacity to provide em-
ployment opportunities for your children. That's part of the
planning of the society.
So that, to ,come to say that the Minister has too much
power-the Minister does not have enough power. The position
is that under our system of Parliamentary democracy, the
Governor-General is the representative of the Queen and he
acts on the basis of the advice tendered to him by his Cabinet
and he allocates portfolios and gives out responsibilities on the
advice of the Prime Minister. It is the Minister who is respon-
sible to Parliament. How could you go and say a Civil Servant
is responsible to Parliament or some Committee is responsible
to Parliament? I wish some people in Trinidad would understand
that we live in the twentieth century and not in the eighteenth.
This is our system of Government. It is the Minister who is res-
ponsible. And if the Mihister is not responsible then we do
not operate a parliamentary democracy.
What we have to do, I think, is give the'-Minister some more
power. I am not joking at all. Somebody came and gave me some
information the other day, I find out that there is a new charge
being imposed on parents. What is the new charge? Lavatory
dues. (Laughter). Lavatory dues. I have a letter here tonight
from a citizen of Trinidad and Tobago who happens to be a
member of the General Council of PNM who told me that they
put his child out of a school because he refused to pay a charge
levied on him for the Parent Teachers Association; he said that
a number of other students were kept out also.
That is why the Cabinet had to step in four or five years
ago and say expulsion is a matter for jthe Cabinet only. Who
else would expel ? You pass a law and say that education is
compulsory for children of a certain age. You can take the
parent to court for keeping his child out of school. You can
punish' a child for being in a cinema in school hours and the
rest of it. The child has to get special permission or be excused
on grounds of illness for being out of a school, and then you
say somebody could expel.. Some years ago, Concordat or no
Concordat an assisted denomination' school tried to expel a
child-it was more than one child involved. It all arose because
of some complaint-we were never able to get to the bottom of
it but this is how it started saying, that a teacher told a child,
'Why do you want to get promoted to another form? You should
be going out to work because your mother is only a domestic

There was almost a revolution in the school. The children
in the class took at her and eventually some of them, two of
them at least, were expelled. And then the matter was brought
before the Cabinet because the parent of one child protested,
and I raised it, and before it came to the Cabinet I had a letter
from the head of the denomination trying to explain to me
what was involved. I never replied to the letter because I would
not have been able to find a typist in Trinidad who would have
been able to type the language that I would have used. (Laugh-
ter). The Cabinet simply gave instructions that the child must
be re-instated and the child was re-instated. (Applause).

So that my friends is the position about the Act. Unfortu-
nately it means some questions, some big issues with very grave
implications indeed; and some of them I have already had to
take action on. For example, people go about the place saying
Government's word cannot be trusted, this, that and the other.
I have already instructed one Ambassador and I am writing to
the others instructing them to give a full account of this matter
to the Governments to which they are accredited, and we have
made arrangements to have this speech recorded and it would
be copied and sent out to all the diplomatic representatives of
Trinidad and Tobago-which is why I am very happy you gave
me the opportunity of developing the subject at some length
because there were several issues involved.
There is also the point, ladiesand gentlemen, that as far
as we have been able to make out some of this confusion and
argument involves people who are not citizens of the country.
I have had a list-these people come in here with a work permit
issued by the Prime Minister. We have issued 77 work permits
in the last three years to people from different countries to
come in here and teach in Secondary Schools. We didn't allow
them to come in here and take part in agitation against the
Government of Trinidad and Tobago, and I am instructing our
Ambassadors abroad to draw the attention of the Governments
involved, the Governments of which these people are nationals,
to the possible unfortunate implications of a behaviour that
would not be tolerated if it were Trinidad citizens operating
in those other countries. And we would have to be a little care-
ful about the issue of work permits in the future if this is what
is going to go on.
And then somebody has suggested that one of the questions
we should consider is that schools that are in the public system
now should be allowed to leave-I don't know who is saying that
-I don't know on what terms they would leave. etc. etc. Until
we were to hear something more positive in that respect it
would not be possible for us to consider it.

So we go on with our exercise, arduous, comprehensive;
some regulations are published today. This afternoon, Mr. Rich-
ards and I, and other Cabinet Ministers just before we came
here tonight were working on this whole aspect of classification
of the Service which, with luck, we hope to publish by the end
of this week or the beginning of next, so people would see how
we combine, how we classify, in what class we put you as com-
pared with somebody else. And we hope that would be followed
very soon by the Compensation part of it-what salary to be
awarded to this particular post which is put into grade so and
so. Still a lot of work ahead. The Legal Department has been
overworked and has done magnificently in the last few months.
Now it is the turn of the Printing Office which has the job of
printing the stuff on time. Sometimes the Legal Department
under such pressure works on the second draft instead of the
third draft and then there are some errors that have crept in
the public version. Sometimes the printers, working under pres.
sure, forget four or five regulations and so on.
We are doing the best that we can and we still have the
hard task of bringing together all the comments that we have
received, all the amendments that have been proposed, so that
Cabinet can discuss them. We have got so many of them. A
lot of people have asked to see us to discuss, the Civil
Service Association, the Teachers' Union, the Association of Prrn-
cipals and so on. Still a lot of work ahead.

Democracy In Practice
But there is one aspect of this entire argument that I
would like to leave with you tonight, and that is, ladies and
gentlemen, that there are probably very few countries in the
world in which such an argument could have taken place with
such complete freedom, so many people participating some
more ignorant of course than they should have been. (Laughter).
One has to live with one's weaker brethren and this discussion,
this meeting here tonight, very few countries could demonstrate
this democracy in practice as we in Trinidad and Tobago have
been able to do. I think the argument demonstrates the im-
portance of some considerations that I would want to leave with
you tonight as my final word.
Should we not have, in order to stop this ignorance and
take it from the age when it should be dea't with, should we
not try to get some appropriate person or persons to write
a text book for use in the schools, emphasising, outlining our
constitution, our parliamentary procedures, institutions like the
Public Accounts Committee and so on, (cheers), the structure
and powers of Parliament, and putting the constitution in simple
language that our eleven and twelve year old students in
Secondary Schools can understand (cheers): because maybe

then in some cases they could educate the less politically so.
phisticated parent. And in doing that could we not develop a
series of public lectures, adult education lectures on the radio
and television for the benefit of the adult population emphasis-
ing the Constitution of Trinidad and Tobago.
I am glad you gave me the opportunity I warned you
there was a lot of ground to cover but you insisted on my cover-
ing it and I am very glad to have done so. We have not been
here for some time because we have been busy trying to put
this reorganisation of the Public Service first. It is very good
of you to have listened so. long, it is very good of you to have
given us the opportunity nine years later of reporting to you
on one of the most important aspects of our stewardship over
those nine years.
You do not know the amount of inspiration we get from
you when a crisis arises and we know that deep down, finally
and ultimately, the population of Trinidad and Tobago is with
the PNM, is for tHfe national community, and is for any policy
of the PNM that gives everybody in the country equality of
opportunity and an equal right to what we have to offer with.
out discrimination on the grounds of race,.religion, social status,
colour or previous condition of servitude. (Cheers). You have
made us what we have been in these last nine years. May I
just end quite simply, quite humbly but very proudly and say,
just as we are proud to serve you in the nine years that have
gone, most of us would be quite prepared if you'were to give
us the honour to serve you for another nine years. (Cheers).
Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen. (Prolonged Ap.



Speech by the Prime Minister, Dr. the Rt
Hon. Eric Williams on Wednesday, 27th
October 1965, at the Town Hall, S/F'do.

Mr. Chairman, Ladies and Gentlemen,
I am very glad to be in San Fernando again with our Party
Chairman and our Cabinet colleague, Mr. Mohammed and mem-
bers of PNM's Legislative Group, the Mayor of the San Fernando
Borough Council and Senator Ada Date-Camps.
I must apologise for the absence of the other San Fernando
representative, Mr. Montano. He has been excused tonight, he
has some family worries and we thought that perhaps .
(laughter) I don't understand why you should laugh at that,
Mr. Montano has a brother who is( not as well as he might be..
We thought that perhaps he should stay at home (more laughter)
otherwise I am sure he would have liked to be here. He too has
been away and recently returned and would undoubtedly have
something to say about his representation of Trinidad and Tobagc
interests abroad.

I am glad that we have selected for our San Fernando meet-
ing, the discussion of the National Economy. You know it is we
in the PNM who have introduced the population to what we
called from the start, 'Political Education,' reports to the Nation
that we make from time to time on different national issues and
Within the last few weeks we have had a number of argu-
ments about the Draft Education Act and Draft Regulations,
that we have put out in connection with our comprehensive
exercise on the reorganisation of the Public Service which have
displayed a rather lamentable and disturbing ignorance of the
Constitution of the country, of the role and responsibility and
powers of the Minister, of the role and responsibilities of a
Government. Very disturbing indeed and I am not at all sure -
I suggested this last night to the University-that we of the PNM

would not have to revise our policy and practice in respect of
reports to the Nation and discussions of public issues and pre
sentation of basic information that every citizen, young and old,
ought to have.
I think we are going to have to do something about this at
the level of our schools. So many people talk about schools and
don't have the foggiest idea of what a school means or ought
to mean. I am afraid that goes for some parents as well. Very
unfair to our children who are being brought up with a, lot of
aspirations that the parents didn't have when they were their
age, and the training that they get and the experiences to which
they are exposed, are not always going to provide them with
the background for coping with these problems they will face
in later life, or for the achievement of those aspirations that'
they now have as children and teenagers.

The problem in Trinidad and Tobago is that so many of us,
the vast majority, think only of ourselves, of special privileges for
this group or special concessions for this person, or person 'X' is
looking around for a contact to try and get something which
somebody else without a contact doesn't have. Very disturbing
indeed. And the vast majority of us seldom think of the Nation or
of the national service referring especially to the Nation's public
service. You think of a section of the service, or the particular
responsibility or perquisite that you have ~i your small compart-
ment. We seldom think of the national economy; we pay a lot
of lip service to the national community, but seldom really think
of it.

In any dispute, in any conflict between the national com-
munity and the individual or sectional interest, it is the national
community which is pushed into the background.

So I thought ladies, and gentlemen, that we might spend
some time tonight speaking on the 'National Economy' as distinct
from the, individual's economy or the family economy, or the
economy of a particular enterprise or the economy of a union
as distinct from the economy of the nation.

And I don't want to be too abstract, I don't want to put
the discussion in terms that are too profound. I thought perhaps
that I might especially in a place like San Fernando surrounded
by an agricultural hinterland, always boasting of the fact that
San Fernando is the industrial capital of the nation and all the
rest of it, very proud people, very loyal to San Fernando, and
what they conceive San Fernando's position is in the Nation as
that of a highly sophisticated community, I thought perhaps, if
I were to give you some examples, particular examples of the
national economy in action, that each individual here who might

not be specifically concerned with the, examples 1 am going to
select tonight, each individual would be able to see not only his
own local problem, which of course he understands, but see the
problem of the Nation as reflected through particular groups or
particular sectors of the economy which may not be encountered
day by day, personally and directly, by the .individual citizen of'
San Fernando.

So instead of talking in big terms about the national income,
the national budget, revenue and expenditure and the rest of it,
I thought perhaps I might show you the national economy in
action through selected examples. I would not give all of them.
of course, it would be very wearisome and then you would not
be able to see the wood for the trees. I will give you just some

A lot of you would be familiar in one way or another with
the first example that I am gong to give. If you are not
familiar directly with the problem through your own eyes,
your own daily problems, then it is as something which
affects your child, yourself, your son or your daughter who is
now in school and who may I say something to the parents -
who are going to come to the age of maturity, adult citizenship,
with techniques, with training, with a competence that, in many
respects, the parents do not have. That *,s why we give them more
educational opportunities. It is going to be very, very difficult for
Trinidad and Tobago, and therefore San Fernando, if they find
that they come out of school, some of them come out of Univer
sitess' with these superior facilities, educational training and
opportunity and then have to find that in terms of status, and
responsibilities, which matter so much to the average Trinidad-
ian, they are not above the level of their fathers and mothers.
In fact the fathers and mothers themselves would be awfully dis-
appointed. Many a time a father and mother concentrate on the
son or daughter and that concentration is almost the projection
unto the son or daughter of all the aspirations which the mother
or father did not find it possible for various reasons to achieve.

I want to deal first with the question of jobs for our people.
I use a simple word, jobs. Everybody knows what a job is,
especially those who are without a job, and the aspect of the
national economy which I select for first emphasis tonight is
what the Government is trying to achieve with what we call all
over the place the development programme; everybody knows it,
everybody talks about it, but few people understand it. And I
think that this programme of civic education in the schools and
at adult level must emphasise it, perhaps utilising more of the
radio and television. You can't build up a nation on the idiotic
radio programmes of music. I wonder that you all don't tire of

music all the silly films and stories that you get, just relaxation,
entertainment. Perhaps it must be good for you to know that
some of the things that you see on television, millions of people
are seeing all over the world in Japan, in Thailand, in India, in
Australia. As if that will help you to build a nation, as if ihat
helps us to develop the national economy. But still one must be
entertained, I suppose, and one must relax.

The Government, however, has to think of the national eco-
nomy and in another sense the development programme which
is not understood, which is not even referred to in the schools,
which is hardly understood in public, which a radio station would
consider it could not present because it takes away valuable in-
come from some stupid commercial sung by a calypsonian telling
you what to buy or what not to buy. First and foremost you have
to have a job to buy what they advertise on the radio. We are
concerned with the development programme not simply with pro-
viding basic services and facilities and amenities that a modern
country requires but also with providing employment for people
in the construction of these facilities and amenities.
Taking last year for example, through the whole of 1964,
the average number of jobs provided by the Government on its
development programme was 9,024. If we couldn't find the money
for that development programme as we carried it. on last year
when I think we spent $62m on the development programme -
meaning roads or telephones or sewerage or water or agricultural
development, access roads, etc., as distinct from the normal
budget of the country where we spent our money on teachers'
salaries or salaries of civil servants or the provision of equipment
in the different Ministries--, v without that development pro-
gramme on which we spent $62m last year over and above the
country's normal recurrent budget, on which we expect by the
end of this year we will spend about $65m out of the total five-
year programme of approximately $320m, if we didn't spend that
$62m last year, 9,000 people would have been in serious difficulty
trying to find a job.
The employment is not even through the year because es-
pecially last year where the Plan started in 1964. it was approved
by Parliament late in about November, 1963. It was disrupted
by the Tobago hurricane so it was slow getting off the ground in
Tobago; and then one had to get proper estimates of the project
to get the materials there, get the engineers and so on. The
employment was very low in the month of January, about 5,300;
by February, when you find that more people wanted to come out
to work, specifically because it was Carnival (they wanted to
be able to work in order to enjoy Carnival) we had increased to
about 6,500. By June to July, we got into our stride, the July
employment was 9,619.

That is to say between January and July 4,300 more jobs
were provided, and by November- December. (where Christmas
is coming and people want the usual Trinidad saying Christmas
Cheer and to share Fin the festivities), employment jumped in
November to 11.759 and in December 11.858. So in December
last year, ladies and gentlemen, the point that would come home
to nearly 12,000 families in this country is that if it had not been
tor the development programme (you have never heard of any
development programme in the country before the PNM. so you
had better not think that I am just being academic and going in
for statistical bacchanal here tonight. I am talking to you, the
individual parents, and the child who is likely to come on the
labour market shortly) by December of last year nearly 12,000
persons were provided with employment by the Government of
Trinidad and Tobago.

These persons are not Civil Servants, they are not teachers,
they are not.policemen, those are the regular labour force that is
connected with the Government of Trinidad and Tobago. These
are working only on development projects, providing additional
electricity to the country, improving the drainage, helping to
develop the fisheries industry, dealing with the health problems
of the country, providing housing, working at local Government
level with the San Fernando Borough Council or the County
Council in Victiria. and working on what we call 'special works'
providing largely as a result of the Prime Minister's 'Meet the
People Tour' special projects in particular areas to relieve some
hardship, to bring some local people into the labour force if only
fcr a temporary period, a particular job that assists in commun-
ity development, whilst at the same time providing some employ-
ment however limited.
'11,858 people in December. An annual average of 9,024
workers as part of the development programme of the country.
The Development Programme of the country which needs to be
intensified, which becomes more urgent year by year because of
the regular annual increment to the labour force approxi-
mating some 10,000 people going up every year because more
people are coming into the period of child bearing and fertility,
men and women, and Trinidad and Tobago therefore sharing with
ail the Latin American countries around the distinction of being
the part of the world which has the highest birth rate, the highest
rate of population growth. You don't stop a rate of population
growth like that, it will continue if even it has reached its peak,
it is going to continue for some time so that we can anticipate as
of tonight the 27th October, 1965 that the number of people
coming on to the labour market in San Fernando and in Trinidad
and Tobago in 1966 would not be less than in 1965, and in 1967
would not be less than in 1966, and in 1968 would not be less
than 1967.
tA 61

Whilst that is going on we no longer have the traditional
opportunities however limited, that were open to our
population in previous years, opportunities to go to
a job in England that you did not have in San
Fernando, or to go to a better job in England than the one
you had in San Fernando. One didn't always go to a better job;
sometimes it was a skilled worker in San Fernando going to an
unskilled job in some part of England, leaving the particular cli-
mate of San Fernando to which he is accustomed to go to the
rigourp of a climate which is perhaps among the worst and most
trying in the world, and leaving the relative harmony that Mr.
Saied Mohammed spoke about.
If he talks like this about one international conference,
about how these fellows have been ganging up on us and if at
one conference he becomes a bush lawyer, I don't know what is
going to happen when I send him to the second conference; if
he is that anxious over international problems maybe we might
want to send him to settle the Rhodesian problem; we may have
to send Mr. Mohammed over to Rhodesia to tell them how to
settle their problems with which they are facing the world, add-
ing to the confusion and expecting that the world of today with
the sort of Commonwealth that the Party Chairman spoke about
would sit down and allow Mr. Ian Smith to come and say that he
will keep four million Africans in subjection when the British
Government would send a warship to Aden or send troops to
British Guiana just like that, at the drop of a hat, but they
would not do it just because some white people are involved in
Anyway that is not strictly the national economy of
Trinidad and Tobago, though it has some effect on it, ladies and
gentlemen. If that Rhodesian problem is going to lead to an ex-
Splosion, that explosion will involve many parts of Africa. It will
add to the instability which you already have in Africa, and it
will add to the instability you already have in the world and so
affect the world economy of which Trinidad and Tobago is in-
extricably a part. So that when you are talking about your na-
tional economy here as something distinct from your particular
life in San Fernando, please remember also that there are cir-
cumstances in the outside world over which we have no control
and that things might happen to the Trinidad and Tobago eco-
nomy because of the intransigence of these white settlers in
Rhodesia for which we are not to be held responsible.
The migration opportunities are steadily being closed to us
in the United Kingdom and the Commonwealth. You can't go to
Australia. The difficulties of going to the United States are great,
unless you are of a particular type or you have a particular skill
which is precisely the skill that we want. I don't know how many
of you have taken the trouble to read with a little care some of

the regulations that we have put out in the field of education.
We have taken steps to include in the regulations a regulation
to the effect that every teacher, who has been trained at the ex-
pense of the Government of Trinidad and Tobago, would be re-
quired to enter into a bond to serve the Government of Trinidad
and Tobago for five years, the Government that has financed his
training. (Applause).

We do that for scholarship winners being sent abroad now,
whether young boys from the secondary schools or Civil Servants.
When we send somebody for training abroad, we insist on that
bond, and the next group that we have to work on is the nurses,
people whom we train at great expense and they rush off, and
then you see a big headline-'British hospitals could not survive
without West Indian Nurses.' That is fine, eh! When we get sick
we have to get a plane to England, then we might not be allowed
to land to go and be attended to by a West Indian nurse, isn't
that nice? We train them and Britain benefits from them. Al-
most as they used to do when it was we who produced sugar
and they got all the profits from the sugar.

I mention this migration, this closing of migration outlets
in the context of the steady and relentless increase of population
which is not, ladies and gentlemen, just so many people. For
the mother and father it is so many more mouths to feed, un-
doubtedly. For the nation it is so many more children and teen-
agers. Mothers in the first place to put in maternity hospitals.
Children to put in the schools. Teachers who are to be paid to
train them. Teenagers for whom we have to find jobs. So that
our Party, the P.N.M., has had for a few months now as one of
its principal priorities a study of the whole question of family

The Chairman of our General Council Committee is Senator
Ada Date-Camps and we have reached the stage where in Trinidad
and Tobago we have got to consider not only our special prob-
lems here in the Latin American context, but also the question
of the world population problem and the world steps to deal
with that problem. It is not for me to discuss the issue tonight.
The issue is before our Party and the Party will shortly have
something to say on the report of the Committee of Ada Date-

The point to remember here., however, is that as the
world faces up to this problem more and more the
point of view is being expressed in the advanced and de-
veloped countries that if any particular religious group, by
virtue of its convictions or its beliefs, cannot be brought to
accept the principle of family limitation, a state which has
a responsibility to afl its citizens must so organize its pro

gramme that no section of the community is compelled to
accept what on religious grounds is unacceptable; but on the
other hand no section of the community is denied the op-
portunity and facilities to take advantage of some measure or
procedure to which it has no objection on religious grounds.

The second major aspect of the national economy, that I
want to select for you here in San Fernando tonight, concerns
something with which San Fernando is not directly affected or of
which San Fernando people have no direct experience. It is
development in the field of agriculture. It costs a great deal of
money; it involves, partly, a programme of the government to
put in five years small farmers on 20,000 acres of government
land. The anticipated cost of that programme is $30 million,
$30 million which therefore are not available for the educa-
tion of your children; $30 million therefore which are not
available for the re-housing of such sections of the population of
San Fernando and the country as a whole that need to be re-
housed; but $30 million put deliberately and consciously ,.nto a
section of the population of Trinidad and Tobago in order to add
to the wealth of the country, in order to create employment for
the citizens, and in order to improve the general economy of the
country as a whole. For example, we produce through our own
farmers commodities which are now imported from abroad. So
therefore we continue in later years to buy from our own farmers
who are put in jobs through the Government programme whereas
now we buy very largely from farmers *in Canada. or farmers in
the United Kingdom, or farmers in the United States of America.
or farmers in British Guiana and other parts of the world.

So that San Fernando cannot simply afford to take the line
that the national economy is of importance to San Fernando
only in respect of the aspects of the national economy which
come within the direct experience of the people of San Fernando.
Trinidad is not only oil, Trinidad is not only Federation Chemi-
cals, Trinidad is not only employment in the Borough Council
and employment in the Civil Service. Trinidad is not only
the industries starting up all over the country. Trinidad is also
agriculture, agricultural production, the farmer in the country,
the man sometimes who leaves a job in industry from which he
has been retrenched in order to get lands provided by the govern-

In this respect the Trinidad & Tobago government has an ad-
vantage that few governments in the world, few governments
in Latin America, none that I know of, possess to the extent
that we have--the government oums large areas of land, land
that is cultivable land that can be brought into production,
at a certain expense of course, but without taking away any

body's lands, without too much acquisition for public pur
poses which has to be carried out in Tobago where a greater
part of land is, and has been, for generations, privately
In order to take a man in T'Ibago who is a worker on some-
body's farm and give him a piece of land of his own, five acres
or so, you have got to go and acquire somebody's estate and
divide it up among a number of different people. The pressure
for that is much less in Trinidad where you can still have
(and this is the only thing that tends to ease up on the popula-
tion pressure always with the reservation that it is a very costly
thing, however), you still have large areas of land good land.
for the most part inaccessible today, which can be brought into
production and which can be utilised to give productive employ-
ment to hundreds of our citizens and to the rearing of good,
stable, contented, decent, respectable families helping to defend
the Independence of Trinidad and Tobago. It is a very costly
thing. When you hear about the government's agricultural pro-
gramme. you must not assume that it is just. giving somebody
5 acres of land, and you must not assume that giving him 5 or
10 acres of land is merely a question of a surveyor to mark off
the land (we have to pay for that), or of the legal office of the
government working out the contract and the deed etc., and
turning it over to the man (we have to pay solicitors and so on).
I want to give you some idea of what is involved in this pro-
gramme. While San Fernando is not at the producing end of the
programme. San Fernando is at the consuming end. And this
nonsense, this behaviour that so many people in Trinidad and
Tobago indulge in of rushing into a store or supermarket and all
they want to do is to buy what comes from outside. more and
more the government of/ Trinidad and Tobago will be forced
into a position to direct and to organise your taste by limiting
the importation of certain commodities in order to protect the
native producers of Trinidad and Tobago. If we don't do that,
would you tell me who in the name of heaven will protect these
people from those who don't want them in their country, who are
trying to get what they can out of us, who for generations and
centuries have controlled us? The responsibility of the govern-
ment in organizing the national economy is, as far as is possible,
without too much affecting the standard of living of the popula-
tion or the cost of living for the average citizen to protect our
own domestic market for our own domestic producers.
The programme is very costly-$30 million ,in five years to
settle people on 20,000 acres of land. What is the money being
spent on? Let me tell you something about the money. The pro
gramme that is going on now, the first 5,000 acres have either
been distributed this is not a plan on paper-the 5,000 acres
have either been distributed, or are being distributed now, or

the distribution will be completed before the end of 1965. Where
is the distribution and the development taktlg place?

Fishing Pond, in the St. Andrew/St. David area, one of the
most underpopulated sections of the country, one of the sections
of the country with the greatest agricultural potential. What is
the programme in Fishing Pond? Clearing 450 acres of land, the
very clearing of the land providing employment, for the cultiva.
tion of food crops. What is the form that the development will
take? The settlement of 90 farmers on 5-acre allotments for the
growing of selected food crops. What does selected food crops
mean? The advice of the Minister of Agriculture who steps in
sometimes to provide a guaranteed price so that the farmer knows
he can get such and such an income, and the Minister of Agri-
culture might step in to introduce marketing arrangements so
the farmer doesn't have to go to the Sangre Grande market and
sell his crops. He might arrange it in one way or the other.
the Ministry helping with the distribution, not taking the man
away from his land on a key day of the week when he ought to
be working and leaving the land unprotected for all the praedial
larceny that goes on.

The second area, closer to San Fernando than Fishing Pond,
Chatham, down in St. Patrick, between Point Fortin and Cedros,
involving the development of 700 acres of Crown Land. We
didn't have to take anybody's land. We take the government's
land and give it out to selected farmers. We interview the farm-
ers, we check on their previous experience. We don't take a man
who says he wants five acres of land and you put him there and
then find that after two or three years he puts up a parlour on the
land or says he wants to build a club. The land is for growing
food. I said that in case anybody in the audience suddenly feels
that he wants to write to the Prime Minister for five acres of
land. If you are a good farmer, yes; if you really mean to make
some serious business out of farming, yes.

The 700 acres of Crown Lands are 95% cleared and they are
being divided up into 15-acre dairy farms, because the govern-
ment has to step in with the national economy; knowing what's
happening in the world outside, knowing the particular problems
of markets and prices, to say: 'my good friend, don't grow this,
grow that, because this ,is what is needed in the country today.'
Vast amount of milk products are imported; it might be beef
cattle, the large quantities of meat of all sorts imported into this
country-no longer poultry because of the government policies
with respect to the poultry industry where the price has been
drastically reduced, already as every housewife knows, where
the price will fall even lower if the government can just lick
the problem of the cost of the feeding stuffs for the birds which
is what sends up the price of the finished product.

We emphasise the development of 15-acre dairy farms (you
can't put a dairy farm on 5 acres) and 10-acre allotment for tree
crops and the development of 5-acre allotments for food crops.

The third area of development is also in this area of which
San Fernando claims to be the capital, Palo Seco, the oil area
of the last decade and previous decades becoming a principal
centre of agriculture in the 1965 era.

A 325-acre'block is being developed with 80 acres reserved
for dairy farms out in Caroni around Williamsville for 41 workers
formerly employed by Caroni whose jobs were affected by the
closing down of Caroni operations at Goodridge Bay. When
members of the S.W.W.T.U. were faced with the retrenchment,
the Government, the Union and Caroni worked out a scheme
whereby Caroni makes 441 acres of land available for distribu-
tion to these 41 workers and has made a contribution to the
burning, ploughing, planting pangola grass (because it's another
cattle area), and manufacturing of blocks for the low cost houses
that are going to be put with it.

Carlsen Field, formerly an American base in the last war,
resumed by the. Government andt people of Trinidad and Tobago
with the new Chaguaramas agreement negotiated with the
Americans some years ago, 600 acres are set aside for dairy
developmnet. The development has started, and the area has
been fenced. Five farmers are now settled in Carlsen Field on
15-acre farms with a dwelling house. The Ministry of Housing
has developed a low cost house that is being made available
to these farmers.

0 Putting a man on lands today to become a farmer
means providing him with a house. That is the cost oJ
land settlement today, that is the cost of agricultural de-
velopment. He has 15 acres of pasture fully fenced, he gets
five cows from the Government from the farm at St. Joseph,
and he gets all this in the form of a 25-year long term loan
at very low interest. He gets time in order to build himself
up to get the project off the ground.

And we expect that about now, very shortly, five more
people would be put on to these farms. The man is put .onto
a developed unit and all you tell him is 'we have given
you the tools, now get down and do the job and produce the
commodities that Trinidad and Tobago would no longer have to

Waller Field is a big area in the centre of Trinidad which
we took back from the Americans as a result of the Chaguaramas

agreement. The project for this year in Waller Field involves
clearing and developing 1,439 acres. A large area of 200 acres
has been reserved by the Ministry of Agriculture, for trials with
beef cattle which have been imported for the purpose from
Canada and Puerto Rico. Another 484 acres have been cleared,
burned, ploughed, grassed and partly fenced. This is not purely
an agricultural project, you are settling citizens, not giving oul
lands, you are creating a farming community where the Ministry
of Education will have to go in and put a school for that cor
munity and make certain that, when 'it decentralises its Secondary
schools, the children of that farming community don't have to
travel great distances to a Secondary school. That is very largely
one reason for the powers given to the Minister in the Draft
Education Act and Regulations to direct and organize the whole
national system of education.

The National Housing Authority js in this Waller Field
project right now constructing 10 two-bedroom houses. The
Ministry of Public Utilities has supplied the water and the
electricity. You can't put the farmer without water, and if he
doesn't get the electricity he says he doesn't want to stay in
Waller Field, he wants to go to San Fernando, look how bright
the lights are. All this has to be spread about the country; so
that if San Fernando has to wait for some water or wait for
some electricity, remember that both have to be provided to
the Waller Field area because if you don't provide it you can
say goodbye to the agricultural development projects.

This agricultural development project is to provide the
foodstuffs that Trinidad is now buying from abroad, using its
hard-earned currency from oil and from sugar and from citrus
and from cocoa and from exported manufactures. By the end
of this year this block will be completed and the whole block
will accommodate 30 farmers. A third area in Waller Field,
fully cleared already partly burnt out, some delay having been
caused by the adverse weather condition the area
is alsp served with water and electricity, and then a
480-acre block, of which approximately 80 per cent
has been fully cleared. All this is employment for the people
who are unemployed. No active development has yet been under-
taken, but we hope by the end of the year the project will be
in full swing. The fifth section of the Waller Field project of
1,439 acres, is 60-acres reserved for pigs and poultry, where
six houses have already been built for the farmers and five are
now in progress, the farmers have been selected, the poultry pen
construction has commenced, and the farms will soon be handed
over to the farmers.

This Is what the Government does with some of its money
in the development programme, the money that comes from its

revenues from oil going to develop people in a part of the
country which has no oil and people who cannot be accom-
modated in the oil industry.

In Platanite beyond Valencia the problem was that on some
of the best land in the country, they had no roads, so you have
to build access roads that they could get to their holdings. Now
there are 32 farmers who have been allocated 5-acre holdings for
the growing of food crops. Down in Moruga in the Southern part
of the country, also good lands, (they are always boasting in
Moruga that they produce the biggest plantains in Trinidad), that
is being developed too. It was a question of access roads; the
access roads involved amounted to 3% miles. There is also a water
problem in relation to Navet and Princes Town that is being
attended to. Electricity, if it has not actually reached the area,
is on the way. This is in Trinidad only, and the same programme
is being developed and expedited in Tobago, with a sense
of urgency there because it relates to the devastation caused
oy the hurricane and the rehabilitation programme that was
required as a result of that devastation.

0 This is the agricultural programme, this is the
national economy. Why agriculture? Because it is the utilisa-
tion of idle resources. Why agriculture? Because it is jobs
for idle and unemployed men. Why agriculture? Because it
is the local production of foodstuffs now imported. Why
agriculture? Because you keep money within the country
with your own farming community and contribute to the
solution of your balance-of-payments problem where you
are in danger of buying too much from abroad in comparison
with the amount of money that you earn from what you
seil abroad.
'ou say that is not a problem of San Fernando. No, it is
not a problem of San Fernando, it is a problem of Trinidad and
Tobago, because it is only through the total development of our
resources, however limited, that one Can reduce the strain on an
urban and industrial area. like San Fernando, which cannot
possibly hope to accommodate year by year all the numbers of
people who come on to the labour market or to accommodate
today those who are on the labour market, bt cannot find some
constructive permanent employment
A great part of the agricultural pogramme is ecsary
based on the construction of roads. If you have no roads, how
will the farmers get their produce out? This is no longer the
age of the donkey and the dirt track. Nobody w.l go for that.
That was slavery, that was indenture. The man wants to be on
a farm that looks as good as any other smaa unit, or sma

enterprise in Trinidad and Tobago outside of agriculture; he
and his family want the amenities. So that a huge programme
has been going on for three to four years, building roads all over
the country, not first class roads, not like Harris Promenade.
They do not have to carry the traffic of Harris Promenade; just
roads that allow the farmers to get, to their holdings or to get
their produce out to the market.

In the last five years, ladies and gentlemen, between 1961
and June of this year, 1965 the Government expenditure, the
Government disbursement of public funds has included just under
$1%m on building 53 miles of access roads in every county. The
County of St. George 51,000 feet; the County of St. Patrick --
32,000 ft; the County of St. Andrew/St. David with its great
agricultural potential, very isolated, very inaccessible, in most
pa~Ff- 48,000 ft; Nariva/Mayaro, another potentially rich agri-
cultural area, about 31,000 ft. of road; Victoria, all around San
Fernando, 36,000 ft; Caroni which is essentially a sugar area,
the large plantation economy 22,000 ft; and Tobago, particular-
ly in relation to the hurricane and the urgent need of settling
farmers on the land that we are acquiring, 58,000 ft. The total
cost of this road building programme, access roads ,in agricultural
areas in these five years, as I have said, has been just under $1%

If San Fernando is not directly concerned with agriculture.
It is directly concerned with housing as almost all parts of Trini
dad and Tobago. The agricultural programme itself involves im
proved housing, building houses where there are not houses now
for the farmers and for their family.

In the year ending 30th April, 1964, either directly or by
Government or indirectly stimulated by Government's activities,
(building programmes in -the private sector) entirely new
dwelling units constructed in Trinidad and Tobago in the 12
months preceding amounted to 7,700. In San Fernando the
figure was relatively small 100, in Port-of-Spain 800, St. George
the largest county 2,900; Victoria 1,200, St. Patrick 1,300.
This is Trinidad only and does not include Tobago where after
a little delay the rebuilding of houses destroyed by the hurricane
is beginning to get off the ground. That's a lot of houses for a
small country in one year, this is individual houses, each flat
counted as a dwelling in the fourstorey flats; the nine-storey
flats we now have to discontinue because of the tremendous cost
of operating the buildings, elevator service, maintenance gang,
24-hour shifts on the elevator. That is very, very costly indeed
and now we have reverted to the four-storey block of flats as the
standard Government building in an urban area like San Fer-
nando, or like Port-ofSpain.

But there are sections of the population, ladies and gentle-
men, involved in the housing programme that are not Port-of
Spain and are nob San Fernando. One of the most important, for
very many reasons is Shanty Town Shanty Town because of
the eye-sore that it is; Shanty Town because it is perhaps one of
the outstanding examples of a problem that is increasing in
itensity, becoming more urgent every day, the problem of
squatting, people are leaving the agricultural areas to come to
live in the urban areas. They can't find properdwellings and so
put up a shanty on the outskirts of the town. That you find in all
cities, such as Caracas. The beauties of Caracas as a modern
city are completely forgotten, when you see the shanties on the
hills overlooking the city proper. Shanties have developed in
all parts of France in order to accommodate immigrant labour
from Algeria and from the West Inies.

So we decided that we would turn our attention to Shanty
Town. The .urgency of the Shanty Town problem, from tne
standpoint of the national economy, is much more an economic
than a social question, because Shanty Town and Sea Lots are
the areas in which the Government has located the new wholesale
and retail market, a matter of great concern to all the farmers
that we are settling on these Crown Lands.

Some of the Shanty Town houses virtually adjoin the new
market to be opened, I think approximately in June next year.
So one has to move at least a section of Shanty Town by June
of next year. It is far from. San Fernando; but the very fact that
you had to settle a new market as a basic and integral part of
the agricultural programme meant that for economic reasons ypu
had to relocate the population of Shanty Town. It's a huge project
involving 578 families.

The first phase of the project which is being developed now
involves the relocation of some 70 families, the construction of
70 houses in an area of about 12 acres where clearing has been
completed and development has begun. We have worked out a
project whereby, in utilising the low cost houses developed by
the Ministry of Housing, we would utilise the labour of the
people of Shanty Town on an agreed basis in building theif
access roads and providing some of the labour for the introduce
tion of their utilities-water, electricity, and so on.

The total cost of the project which is being phased over a
2-3 year period is estimated at $3% million and by the end of
this year and the early part of next year, the first phase of the
project would have been completed, and the area of Shanty Town
immediately adjacent to the new market will have been cleared'
and no new shanties will be tolerated. The Government will not
demolish the house of a citizen who is in. unfortunate oireuma

stances, but the national plan cannot be upset by the injudicious
action of individual X coming from sorwehere because he wants
to be on the outskirts of Port-of-Spain. The Shanty Town area,
al that area on the Beetham Highway, is reclaimed land among
the most valuable resources 'of *the people of Trinidad and

The Shanty Town people are occupying land which is of
the utmost value in respect of industrial development especially
as it is close to the harbour, or as it has a seafront; it is going
to require all sorts of access roads, because it is the wholesale
market and retail market, traffic will be coming up and down
all the time. And some factories are already being located in
this area; one of the industrial estates of the Industrial Develop-
meat Corporation is at Sea Lots.

And whilst you relocate the population for economic reasons
you raise the social standards, you raise them in the social scale
and they are going in to a properly constructed low cost house
developed 'by the Ministry of, Housing, and they are providing
some of the labour themselves. They are being taught skills,
making the blocks with the new machine that the Ministry of
Housing operates, and by the time the project is completed some
of the people in Shanty Town, disregarded and despised by the
population as a whole, would become decent citizens with jobs
of their own, in houses that are respectable, that need not be
sneered at, and some of them would nave acquired skills that they
can take over into ordinary life, once the particular project has
been completed. Far from San Fernando in the physical sense,
but very close to San Fernando in the political sense-in the
dignifying of one of the most underprivileged sections of our
population, training them in certain skills, developing new houses,
improving the aesthetic appearance of the entrances to Port-of
Spain; very close to San Fernando people who have Pleasantville
for development. Pleasantville is at this moment, as I am speaking.
one of the top priorities in the field of housing of the Government
of Trinidad and Tobago in the context of an arrangement reached
with a Development Corporation from outside, a British Corpora-
tion, and the Trinidad and Tobago Government to provide the
mortgage money for large scale building and housing construc-
tion. One of the best areas that we have readily available, with
arrangements now being made for the development work in con-
nection with the house sites that we want, is Pleasantville here
in San Fernando

The same concern with the housing needs of the population
has determined another major priority in the field of housing.
At this moment as I am speaking, in the Aranguez area, the
expansion of Barataria and the need for greater living space
have resulted in an agreement between the Government and the

Aranguez estate whereby the Ministry of Housing will be taking
cover scme 20 acres for housing and expansion in the Barataria
area. That is another aspect of the national economy, which I
believe would mean a little more to you as citizens in a homely
informal discussion than in general talk about revenue and ex-
penditure or national budget or per capital national income.

Another aspect of the economy is education, not in the sense
of argument about the Government Education Act and Regula-
tions. Some of the arguments have become quite tiresome and
if I were to deal with them, I would have to answer some of the
questions I dealt with last night. I want rather to deal with
another aspect of education. I want to talk to the parents tonight,
talk to you parents about education. It has nothing to do with
church or state or what school. Whatever the school, ladies and
gentlemen. you who are parents, what the school requires is
teachers, and the comments that are being made all over the place
is we have these children out of school, build new schools for
them. etc. Build new schools to put what in them? Janitors?
(laughter). What we want is teachers. And one of the most
urgent sections of the national economy requiring attention
today and receiving attention is education, but not so much
from the standpoint of the schools, the rapid building of the
schools, especially secondary schools.

In the last few years we have made it possible to increase
the number of free places to 3,750 and you will hear in a
minute what is the teaching position in respect of these schools.
The provision of school places has outstripped the provision of
qualified teachers. Too many parents talk about the Government
providing a school, merely because they say 'we don't want the
child to lime about the place' and the rest of it. I suppose that's
a point, but if that is why we are building the schools, if that's
the parent's conception of education, I'd better ask some of you
to think again.

That is not what your child is entitled to under the Con.
stitution of Trinidad and Tobago, merely to be put in a place
where you have a school teacher; and then the parents run
about the place and say they don't want the Government to say
that there must be no corporal punishment and discipline in
the schools, that they murt punish the children and the rest of
it. Do you build a school for children to be punished? It is not
a jail, it is a school. You build a school to train the children.
You build a school to give them what their mothers and fathers
didn't have; and the problem of so much of our schools is that
they don't have the adequate facilities which become more and
more costly. The most important facility in a school is the teacher.

Listen to the position. I don't have any later figures than
1961, but this will give you an idea of the programme, the
attention that the Government is giving to education and the
reason for .it. 1961 was much better than 1954 before the PNM
took over, it is true. But in Primary and Intermediate schools,
whether they are denominational or Government, there were
5 840 teachers for something like 200,000 children. Of every
hundred teachers, 41 were trained. What is a trained teacher
in a Primary and Intermediate school? A man with a good
secondary education background, a G.C.E. or School Certificate,
and in some cases we take him in with some Teachers' Certificate,
that they got around the pupil-teacher stage and so on. A trained
teacher is a man who has been sent to a Training College and
has come out with a certificate of the Training College. Of
every hundred teachers in 1961, 41 had that training. Of the 41,
22 had been to a secondary school. They had a secondary school
basis for the Teachers' Certificate. This was of course at the
very start of free secondary education, so you will expect the
figure to be somewhat low. 19 went into teaching without a
secondary education.
46 of the teachers had no training, they did not go to
Training College, that's what they mean by training. Of the 46
who did not go to the Training College, (don't imagine it is
their fault if they didn't go to the Training College; the Training
College couldn't take them if it didn't have any place for them),
of the 46 who didn't go, 35 had been to a secondary school;
whether that meant they had the G.C.E. or School Certificate,
I am not in a position to say tonight. And ten had not been to
a secondary school.

41 trained, 46 untrained; the other 13 pupil teachers. You
know what a pupil teacher is, the young girl or boy attached to
a particular school where they are supposed to spend so many
hours during the week in working with a teacher, and the teach-
ers get an honorarium at the end of the time. If the pupil teacher
passes the examination, if the pupil teacher gets a first class the
Ministry of Education gives a little bonus, if it's a second class
it gives a smaller bonus, etc. An old technique from the colonial
period of providing additional teachers when there was inade-
quate space in a training college.

That is unsatisfactory today, and one of the steps that is
being taken by the Minister of Education is to work out some
sort of programme by which these people will get positive train-
ing at certain times. The real problem which you and I face
in this country, ladies and gentlemen, is that you build these
huge structures at great cost, and they are only used for part
of the year. They get six weeks vacation in the summer, two to
three weeks at Christmas and at Easter. They start the school
at 8 o'clock and finish at 3 o'clock tn the afternoon.

There are no capital resources in Trinidad and Tobago less
tilised as they could be titilised than some of the schools in
the country. That is why we have to consider whether one could
expand the number of children using a school building by
bringing in some additional people at hours when the school
building is not used. You would require another set of teachers,
but; you could use the same building for different purposes,
tor different levels of education, or for different groups of
children getting the same type of education.
Many countries facing our position have to have one class
of children in the morning and one class of children in the
afternoon. The teacher cannot run two schools, so that you
have one set of teachers in the morning and another set of
teachers in the afternoon. The problem that we face in anything
like that is that you are already short of trained teachers. So
those figures in 1961 immediately suggest the reason for build-
ing Mausica Training College, and for expanding the Emergency
Training College where we give a crash course. And what ve
are going to have to do, friends, you all who still think that
you live in the plantation age as to when you get up and when
you get to work and all the rest of it, and everybody is so con-
cerned with going on holidays with pay, that's very
fine; but there are parts of the year when people are on holi-
day from school, where the Government of Trinidad and Tobago
is going to have to insist that summer courses are held for people
who for one reason or another cannot get into the Training
College; or that night school is held for people who for one rea-
son or another can't get in the day class.
We cannot continue to operate a society and develop the
national economy on the basis of the 8 -4 mentality and at 3.45
p.m. the girl starts to powder her nose. You've got to lengthen
the day, and the day after 4 o'clock or after 8 o'clock is not for
standing up somewhere in some public place looking at a ridica.
lous television programme. You are not going to build up any
national economy, you wouldn't even build up your own bloom-
ing individual economy, just dreaming over a television set
Maybe it's al right for those of you who are old, bat the young
ones, the pupil teachers and the untrained teachers, we have
to find some method of utilizing to a greater extent the fac-
ties that we have.
ll tell you what I mean. I went today to see he Polytechic
in Port-of-Spain. The Polytechnic is a school that we have
developed to provide the sixh form training in a
secondary school, for the secondary smcol which for
one reason -or another cannot provide that training or the
secondary schools are somewhat eclsie and they pick and
choose because they don't like the family, s t doe't take
in some girls into the sixth foen, they dm take ia sowk bom s

so we say come to the sixth form. They have some San Fernando
children, if I am not mistaken, down there; I saw them this
morning. About 90 of them from different schools in the country,
schools which don't have a sixth form. The sixth form is the
class that allows the student to proceed not to the G.C.E. ordinary
level, which is what most parents talk about, but the G.C.E.
advanced level which automatically puts the boy or girl in a
specially favoured position when it comes to going to a Univer-
sity and doing further training.
Education is not only what happens to your child today and
tomorrow, it is what you are preparing him for, and what is
going to happen to him in ten years from now, what are the
foundations which will allow him to utilise the greater educa-
tional opportunities that lie ahead, lie ahead not only for him,
lie ahead not only for the parents, but lie ahead particularly for
the country which day after day sends representations to the
Prime Minister; "please give a work permit to Mr.
X from country Y to come in here, advertisements
have been issued in the press, no qualified local people
have replied to the advertisement and we must get
a foreigner." How much longer ds that going to continue?
When you are talking about education, you are just talking
about a school place for a child. School place to do what? Be
cause if it is so, we can just take some money and put it in a
primary school or private school. School place for what?.

You put them in the Polytechnic and we give them an
opportunity to proceed to an Advanced Level which they could
not get in an ordinary school. Enormous facilities at the Poly-
technic. They have science and laboratory facilities that no
secondary school in this country has. I have not yet got the
figures of the amount of money we spent on that school. And
you couldn't just have that school with all those facilities for
90 people in the day even if they are best or among the top
200 students in Trinidad and Tobago around 15-18. That is a
lot of money for 90 people however brilliant they are. So we
use it at nights. There is a huge night school with an enrolment
of about 800, civil servants, teachers, policemen, people in
ordinary employment, private employment, trade unionists, all
going there taking perhaps two classes a night with -good
teachers, good facilities. They want to study science, they must
have a chemistry laboratory; one of the most beautiful chemistry
laboratories you will find anywhere in the West Indies.
So what was meant as a school in the day for 90 people
becomes a school throughout the week for nearly 900 people,
and I myself believe that the Polytechnic could provide a lot of
assistance to secondary schools like Belmont, like St. James,
which is next door to the Polytechnic, like Woodbrook where
some of the laboratories have not yet been started, where they

have a room as a laboratory with some fittings, but all the equip
ment has not been supplied, where the teaching staff of the
school might have an untrained teacher, a teacher without
a University'degrea
And the thought occurred to me and I asked the Minister
of Education, is it not possible to have a Polytechnic in San
Fernando serving the same purpose, bringing together the top
students in the secondary schools Which are being developed
now in Couva, Point Fortin, Rio Claro, one in San Fernando?
Others will have to be developed in areas like Fyzabad, which
is in very great need of a secondary school now. One is going
up in Penal, and would be ready by the end of this year. You
have one in Palo Seco, and then you have one which is going
to start now in Vessigny. This Ais the network of secondary schools,
new Government schools and then you have some denominational
schools there, though at least one of them is probably adequately
provided with its own sixth form facilities.
As these schools develop and the children reach G.C.E. 'O'
Level, what do they do then? Do-they leave school at age 15 or
16, or could the best of them proceed to something higher, don't
rush into the labour market yet, go to the sixth form schools,
get the Advanced level G.C.E. and they proceed right into the
University or qualify for a Government scholarship? These
are the essential qualifications for the professional, tcehnical and
administrative staff of highest quality that would be required
for an independent country. That's what education is today, in
terms of the national economy. Not a lot of the absurdities and
prejudices that are being touted about the country.

The first thing that struck me about some of the schools,
*is the poverty of the library material. I've been seeing a lot of
them, and I want to go around and see them. But I can only
see so much in two hours, and the Minister and I think what
we have to do is to go and call in all the principals of Govern-
ment Secondary schools to edme and meet us and have a general
discussion as to what ,is needed in particular schools, where
education today means that the Government provides a number
of typewriters. You go-into a new secondary school and you
get into a room and you hear nothing but the clanging of type-
writers. 24, 25 girls starting off their lessons in typing. It is
teaching people woodwork and metalwork, and breaking down
some of the absurd social prejudices that you the parents have
about work of a particular sort. That is why we have not been
able to develop the scientific and technological mentality in this
country. We think of work as manual work and a worker in a
Trade Union, and then the principal ambition is to see to it that
his child does not become a worker. It is a social baTrier that
we have to overcome, very largely through our educational

If you look around you'll see the books, Government money
being spent on books, possibly an inadequate amount of money
for sometimes totally unsuitable books. And then somebody makes
a big noise about textbooks and the Minister's control.

The Minister doesn't exercise the control that he eught to
have over those things, on the basis of proper advice, not advice
from a lot of teachers who sometimes don't know what is the
latest in the field of knowledge which they are developing. It
is a matter for expert knowledge, people who would know that
this book came out last year and produced new knowledge.
What are you going to teach your children in these schools,
something that's ten years out of date? Something that has been
disproved, (because it depends on what the subject is)? Suppose
that they are teaching West Indian history, no subject has had
more trash written about it than West Indian history. Are you
going to have some foreigner writing a book for your children
to teach them a lot of the absurdities of the colonialism that
the PNM destroyed in this country? Not with public funds. Do
it if you like, but not with public funds. (Applause)

And do it with your own private children, not with the
children of the people of Trinidad and Tobago. The Minister
must intervene. I looked and I said "how are these books
selected? Who bought this book?" Man, if the book was being
sold at second hand or third hand, I wouldn't buy it, you could
just throw it in the wastepaper basket tomorrow. Some of the
books I have,seen!

Then you will have to provide recreational facilities, and
the schools are overcrowded. Before you take in the first set of
students you have to go expanding the school and so on. A lot
of money is involved, new schools have to be started. What to
do with the children twelve years and over who have not got
in to the limited number of places in the secondary schools?
We think we know what to do with them. It is very certain,
ladies and gentlemen, that it is not to put them into these
secondary schools. I think there are too many people sometimes
in the secondary schools that we've started. I stood up in two or
three schools, and saw a young teacher teaching Spanish in the
first or second year to a class of about 40 students. Impossible.

The teachers are bound to get at the average, but the
weaker student tends to retard the better student. The weaker
student, if he or she could get some attention which the teacher
is in no position to provide, would probably not be as weak
after a year, as he was before the special attention began.

If you have a new type of school, the problem is your
teacher. Then it is possible perhaps for you to reduce not the
number of people getting secondary education not at all, you
will increase that number, but the number of people getting a
particular type of secondary education which is now available
and which is what all the fuss seems to be about, and most of
which is utterly a waste of talent and resources in terms of a
number of the students. I have seen some of the boys in school
working with tools and the instruments, seen them in some of
the laboratories etc., the very people who, if you put them to
deal with some of the ordinary academic subjects, would sit
down in the class and you suddenly find that after half an hour
that they have the book upside down-just no interest in these
things. Some children are not interested, others are particularly
interested and have no interest in the laboratory or metal work
and so on; you should see some of the girls doing their home
economics classes, training for the ordinary life in the ordinary
society of Trinidad and Tobago. Some of you parents should
start visiting the schools where your children go. I believe
you think school is a place where you just get rid of the child
for the day, and I am sure that .if the parents of today were
to pay as much attention to the child's need for guidance in
respect of its homework that it must do (an integral part of
their education), instead of trying to push the child into the
hands of somebody who is a private teacher and paying for extra
lessons and giving extra lessons. I am sure if the average parent
were to do his or her duty to his or her child, then the child's
performance in the school would be better.

But the basic problem is not really the parents, but the
teachers. The 1961 position with the teachers was this. In San
Fernando for example, 52 of 100 were trained, 42 untrained,
and 6 were pupil teachers. San Fernando was behind Port-of:
Spain which had 57 trained, 39 untrained and about 4 pupil
teachers. But in St. Patrick only 28 were trained out of 100,
In Nariva/Mayaro 30, in Caroni 32; an uneven development, an
uneven distribution of the teaching and trained teaching talent
in the country among the different areas. That is the situation
in primary and intermediate schools.

The Anglican denomination as ,far as the denomination!
schools were concerned (the Moravians are a very small de
nomination), of the larger ones the Anglicans were better
equipped with the trained teachers than others. The Govern-
ment schools were slightly ahead of the Roman Catholics and
Presbyterians. But all share the same problem. There were more
pupil teachers in government schools and Presbyterian schools.
There were really more in Hindu- schools; 20 of the teachers in

Hindu schools were pupil teachers and only 24 were trained,
an indication again of the uneven development in the different
parts of the country, uneven between the different denominations.
As fAr as the secondary schools were concerned, the source
6f a lot of arguments in recent days, the position is, ladies and
gentlemen, that for 13,191 students in secondary schools, assisted
and government, in 161 there were 609 teachers, about 22 stu-
dents per school teacher. The number had gone up by 1963 (and
it would be higher in 1965), to 805 teachers in all schools, with
17,238 students or 21 students per teacher. San Fernando had in
1961, 71 teachers with a University degree out of 174; less than
half had a University degree. The real qualification for teaching
in a secondary school is a University degree, plus a special dip-
loma in education. San Fernando had 71 with a University degree
and 34 with a teacher's diploma, a special diploma.
In all Trinidad and Tobago there were 288 out of 609
teachers, less than half, with a University degree and 97 had
the special diploma. By 1963 where I have the picture for govern-
ment and assisted schools, out of 805 teachers all told in
secondary schools in the country, 366 had University degrees
still less than half, 137 had special diplomas. And in Govern-
ment schools, 97 had University degrees, in Roman Catholic
schools 118, Anglicans 52, Presbyterians 99.
The national economy and the planning of the national
economy have to give a lot of attention to this question of the
training of the teachers, providing them with the proper qualifi-
cations at primary school level which is essentially a teacher's
certificate from a training college, and a University degree which
as part of the basic qualification for teaching at secondary level
That is why in connection with this education we have been
emphasising this reorganization of the public service on which
I spoke in some detail last night in the University of Wocdford
Square dealing with the position In the Public Service of
teachers, policemen, civil servants and so on.

That is a costly business, though we have not yet published
the proposals that the Government has worked out after looking
at recommendations from all sorts of people. But it will add
to the total expenditures of the country. We have to be very
careful, we cannot exceed the resources of the country where
30 million have to go to agriculture to set up people on farms
and to develop the dairy industry; because $3% million have
to go to remove Shanty Town and put 578 people in decent
houses; because you have to employ 9,000 people in the develop-
ment programme on all different aspects of development in the
country; and because you have fo spend money not so much

on the teachers' salary, but on the training of the teachers,
and it .is the training of the teacher who has a University degree
who automatically will qualify for a particular salary which no
amount of improvement of a salary without a University degree
would ever equal. The way to improve salaries is to upgrade
the qualities and the competence of the workers, and we have to
be careful about this.

The daily paid workers in the government of Jamaica, the
Government of Jamaica estimated the cost, and said this will
cost 3 million (about 14 million of our, dollars), and it would
automatically affect the proposals that were being awaited from
the monthly paid employees. The Government of Jamaica said
in order to find the $14 million to pay the wage increase recom-
mended by the daily paid employees, ,it would mean that they
would have to increase taxation in the country by 17 per cent.
It is impossible in any country to increase taxation by 17 per
cent. just like that. The matter is being debated. So that when
the Government said before it goes into this exercise, it must
see what it is the country can afford, it isn't that the country
doesn't have money, it is the country's resources must be de-
voted equitably and on the basis of a plan that's fully under-
stood by everybody towards the development and organisation
of the national economy where you couldn't very welZ subordi-
nate the housing project in Pleasantville: where you couldn't very
well subordinate the improvement of the educational opportune
ties for the children of San Fernando.

To put a Polytechnic in San Fernando is going to cost a
lot of money. The only way to provide the facilities that your
children need for their own development now and for the de
velopment of the country in years to come is to take some of
the money In the national treasury and spend it on a Polytechnic
instead of spending it on something else. The moment you put
it on a Polytechnic or education, or teachertraining for San
Fernando schools, you take it away from something else, and
the possibility of your doing it, both for the Polytechnic and
for the something else, would be limited by the capacity of the
country, the ordinary man, woman or child,'to stand additional
taxation. You don't just tax for so; you don't tax to the point
where the people who are being taxed have nothing to live on.
That is totally absurd.

So that it is impossible for people to run about the place
and say this is what we want and we have put up with this and
we have done this, etc. You are trying to give first priority to
the provision of training facilities for the children of the very
people superior to what the mothers and fathers have. You

don't pull it from the sky. To send a teacher to get proper
qualifications to our University here or even abroad for teaching
in a secondary school requires three years to get a Bachelor's
degree and one additional year for the special diploma. When
he goes into the school he must have equipment with which to
teach; blackboards, and laboratories and instruments in the
laboratories, and stoves and frigidaires for home economics, and
typewriters for commercial classes, and woodwork and metal
work equipment for the practical subjects, and a library for
all the subjects under the sun to introduce the children to the
books that the mothers and fathers never saw and never dream-
ed of. If you don't do that, whatever you have is not education,
whatever you build is not a school, it is a place where you send
the children because you don't want them around you, whilst
you are doing the housework, you don't want them liming in
the streets. Okay, that is so. When we in the Government talk
education we mean a little more than that. We mean not only
an improvement of your children in directions of which you have
not yet thought, but we mean their improvement, the raising to
a very high standard of the society in Trinidad and Tobago.

When we get them into the job and so on as we
hope to do, they produce a lot of stuff, where would you
sell that stuff? It is becoming increasingly difficult to
sell your stuff. The Commonweath has virtually 'ceased
to exist. I heard what Mr. Mohammed said of the
Afro-Asian countries. Afro-Asian countries are not going to
help us very much in terms of markets, they are too far
away. transportation difficulties are too great, and it is possible
that the living standards over most of Africa and most of Asia
would not permit any great penetration of Trinidad's products.
I think rather that we would have to look closer home and at
the area which, from the economic point of view (Mr. Moham-
med was speaking very largely from a fraternal point of view
and the political point of view), the areas that we have to look
to much niore in the future would be Latin Amerca, the neigh-
bouring Latin American states, where the population is increas-
ing more rapidly than any other continent in the world, and
where you have on our doorsteps a powerful. large, increasing
market with standards of living for the most part, average stand-
ards, higher than the standards of Africa and Asia, and there-
fore supplying a better potential market for Trinidad and

As we try to do all of this, friends, planning the national
economy, we come up against some basic difficulties. The first
one of great concern to San Fernandians is that the economy
of Trinidad and Tobago, its development, its expansion, has
traditionally been built up on the oil industry. The production

of oil in Trinidad and Tobago, from our soil in Moruga, in
Forest Reserve and so on has been steadily declining and is
becoming quite serious, the decline in Trinidad and Tobago.
I have some figures here, as of May 1965 compared with Decem-
ber 1964: decline in Soldado, decline in Point Fortin, decline
in Brighton, increase in Palo Seco, increase in Fyzabad, decline
in Coora Quarry, decline in Barrackpore, decline in Moruga, de
dine in Guayaguayare. Whilst that decline is taking place in
Trinidad everyday, every week, every year you read of some
important new discovery in the outside world; it was Nigeria
the other day now it's the North Sea. and in the Midd e East
every year some big new field is found. Prices are falling stead!v
a1id therefore the revenue the government gets from the oil:
42V/ per cent, of profits comes to the government by way of
company tax.

And whilst that is going on---ess money comes from oil,
affecting the Development Programme, affecting the revenues
of the country-sugar has almost gone. I hear every now and then
that there are absurd people in Trinidad talking about taking
over the sugar company and breaking up the estate, and
a fight is going on in the sugar industry as to which
people are to control which union and which union
is to control the industry. In actual fact, ladies and
gentlemen, the way things are going now, there would soon
be no sugar industry for anybody to break up any lands or for
anybody to control. The explanation is Mr. Castro in Cuba. Castro
decides that he is going to build up a tremendous sugar econo-
my; where he aimed last year or this year at 6 million tons,
he says that he is going to get 10 million tons, and he is going
to sell the sugar to Russia. Russia already has all the sugar
that it wants, so Russia buys the sugar at a particular price
and then goes and sells it somewhere else to help to depress
world prices.

The Trinidad cost of production is just under $200 a ton,
I think the average cost. They pick up about $220 in Britain
and the world price is about $96, but only a certain part of
Trinidad sugar sells under the Commonwealth Sugar Agreement,
which the British have always been threatening' not con-
tinue forever; and they don't pay much attention to the
Commonwealth now anyhow. How are you going to produce at
8200 a ton or almost and when you sell in the world market out-
side of Britain you pick up $96 ?

And Castro is to produce 10 million tons. Listen to the
statement of a British paper one week ago (San Fernando is
very interested in sugar, all around San Fernando is sugar and
sugar workers) about the failure of another international agree-
ment at an International Conference, different from the one

Mr. Mohammed was attending. This is a sugar conference which
ended in total failure. And this is the concluding paragraph
of one of the leading British newspapers. I quote:
"With no agreement in view, the question for sugar grow-
ers now would seem to be: who will survive and who will
be forced out of business in the next few years ? Cuba
can expect 'to be among the former and this can account
in part for its attitude at the conference. Except for its
accusing the United States of causing the present world
sugar crisis, Cuba did not play a very active role in the
conference., Sugar experts consider that an inter-
national agreement would not at present be in
its best interests. Cuba, they argue, can live with the pre.
sent depressed free market prices longer than most other
cane producers, happily earning 6 cents per lb. on guaran-
teed sales to the Russians. They can sit back and wait while
low prices drive their competitors out of the market, secure
in the knowledge that they will survive."
You produce 220,000 tons, Cuba produces 6 million and is
to make it 10 million; the only thing that's holding back the
10 million is that the capacity of the present factories is much
less than 10 million and they are going to have to build new
factories, if they want to do that. You sit down here arguing who
is going to be the boss of this sugar union, and somebody gets
up and says "break up all the sugar lands." The whole industry
is breaking up before your eyes and you are talking about who
is going to control and who is going to break up. whose land.
And the government (the price determines the profits that
are made), and the government gets 42% per cent. Living in
a fool's paradise. Everybody is running about the place, saying
this, that and the other hoping to make an impact. The world
economy is going to pieces in front of your eyes, under your
very nose, and Tom, Dick and Harry are running about the
place saying who is the boss. Boss of death!
The fall in prices affects all commodities in terms of Trini-
dad's production-oil, cocoa (cocoa is the lowest and is begin-
ning to rise again, perhaps) coffee, sugar. And Trinidad has to
buy, as all developing countries, the commodities that it needs
from outside-machinery, cars, tractors and so on. Prices are
going up, whilst our prices are falling. So that if you take the
year 1960 in terms of our exports of oil, sugar, cocoa, coffee,
citrus and take 1960 as 100, the figure that we got in 1964 five
years later was 95. And if you take what we bought, the stuff
thrt we don't provide, and take the import pnice of 1960 as
100, the 1984 price was nearly 115. So -the imports have gone
up 15 per cent and the export prices have falIen 5 ner cent
The country has lost, in terms of the relationship between
export prices' and import prices, 17 per cent in terms of what

you could have expected. Instead of the position getting better,
the position is getting worse. That has nothing to do with you
people in San Fernando; that's not the fault of the half
wits running about the place shouting things they don't know
anything about. And that's not the fault of the government. It
is the price that you get for the cocoa, it's the price you get
for the sugar, it's the price you get for your oil, coffee and
In every case two major disadvantages face us in Trinidad
and Tobago--(a) our production is so small that we cannot
influence the price, and (b) we are so particularly vulnerable,
because so much of what we produce has to be sold outside,
our population is su small it cannot provide an adequate domes-
tic market, in aaation to which with oranges growing all about
the place, your housewife will go somewhere and say, 'orange.
man, so much! That too expensive. I am going to a supermarket
and buy some tinned fruit'. She would be buying the tinned fruit
from South Africa i we would allow it to come in.

You get up here in Harris Promenade and clap Saied about
apartheid, etc., but you don't give two damns about going to
eat South African stuff and cutting the throats of your own far-
mer-the national economy! You think that you could develop
your own individual economy, in your own individual house-
hold, and say 'national economy, I am going tonight to hear
the Prime Minister about that.' You think it is hearing the
Prime Minister about the national economy. It is the rope round
your neck and all of us are caught in it. But the thoughtlessness
of the population, running all about the place, demanding some-
thing that the country cannot afford in terms of wages or salar-
ies at all levels, to do what ? To spend almost half of what they-
get on buying foreign stuff so that the money doesn't stay in
the country to circulate amongiour own farmers and among our
own citizens.

The real problem is to transform a satellite economy, satel-
lite of a metropolitan country with a colonial mentality, into
the economy of an independent country that doesn't have a,
lot of'room to manoeuvre. We have to sell abroad, and if you
have to put all your money in teacher training and to put your
money in Pleasantville houses, and to put your money in dairy
farms down in Palo Seco or Chatham, where in the name of al
that is holy will you get the money to put, as the half-wits will
say, into a nationalised oil industry or a nationalised sugar
industry ? That is the sort of consideration that more and more
our citizens, you and I, will have to think about, will have to
think about in ways that are going to be quite a shock to you.
Electricity, how many of you stop to think of the cost of
providing, generating and transmitting that electricity? Im-

proved telephone service from Port-of-Spain to San Fernando-..
how many of you think of the cost in terms of a foreign loan
to make that improvement possible ? Water is one of the most
expensive commodities in Trinidad and Tobago. You wouldn't
think so, from the way San Fe~nando wastes it. It comes from
the sky, doesn't it, God above. It is God who sends the rain but
man has to organize it. He sent the rain but He didn't tell us
not to wear raincoats.

At all levels waste. The public utility, a basic industry in
Trinidad and Tobago, the population of San Fernanao and
Trinidad and Tobago regards it as if it is something just free,
as they think the secondary school is free. And they don't under.
stand the cost that goes into that secondary school. You haven't
got the faintest idea of the problem of. the books the children
have to use except that you complain, quite legitimately, about
the amount of money that it cost you to go changing textbooks.
We'll put a stop to that, because that is quite wrong. It will
not be permitted and the Minister must have powers to do that.
And all this nonsense about the Minister going to put textbooks
that parents don't like and the rest of it, is a lot oT rubbish.
People don't supply textbooks and put up textbooks as a guide
for people like that. Anybody who knows what textbooks are,
would know that spme list would be provided from which people
would choose. The point that the Minister would insist on is
that, that a textbook once chosen it is not to be changed without
permission, so you can pass on the book from the older son to
the younger one. (Applause).

But the point is to choose the textbooks. You don't make
a racket out of textbooks and make people spend money and
try to make it difficult for people to keep their children in a
secondary school by insisting on a particular type of uniform,
using the most expensive material and then saying the mother
who is a seamstress can't make the uniform for the girls, it has
to be made in the school. That is a monopoly and we'll put a
stop to it (more applause). That's a minor irritation and I
wish you will direct your thoughts to higher things as to what
it is your children learn in school, and what it is they are learn-
ing for. and what it is they are aiming at, and how it is possible
for them *o achieve their aspiration.,In other words, what sacri-
Sfice would you make as a taxpayer and citizen of Trinidad and
Tobago, to make it possible to provide the money, to provide
the proper schools with properly trained teachers equipped with
adequate libraries to give your children the chance that you
never had in the age of colonialism. That is what education
is. Forget the uniforms, forget the textbooks and so on, they
would be handled. The only people making a fuss about that
is the people who don't understand what a school is anyhow.
That's our difficulty, friend. We have our own problems

here, and then certain problems that we face we don't control
them. I don't know what to do about the fall in prices. We
can't send the Trinidad navy and say you buy our oil and
pay us that. Everywhere you turn as Saied says it is everybody
for himself, everybody cutting each other's throat. One thing
you must not expect, friends, is any help from outside. They
are not going to give you any help. Some people say you all
have more than everybody else. It is quite true, Trinidad and
Tobago presents a picture of prosperity, orderly development
that tew countries present.

The Japanese come here, they would like to invest in Trini-
dad and Tobago. We are not going to get any help from Japan.
They had another conference last year that Lionel Robinson
went to in Geneva. They talked about aid to developing coun.
tries and the Japanese said, 'what is a developing country?
You mean Trinidad is a developing country ? You want Japan
to help Trinidad! Look at all the figures. Per head of all the
population Trinidad is better off than Japan. We might help
Africa, but we not going to help Trinidad.' That's the position,
friends. You are neither fish nor fowl, you are neither developed
nor underdeveloped. (Laughter). You are in between, neither
masculine nor feminine, you are just neuter. (Laughter). Neither
masculine nor feminine, neuter gender; Trinidad and Tobago,
intermediate, neither high nor low, but just in between.

It poses a lot of problem because the average person from
abroad tends to say, 'nothing is wrong with you, man. You all
have done so well on your own resources, go and try some more.'
There is a basic imbalance in the society and the fundamental
problem of q d4eendence to such an extent of this economy on
external trade. its vulnerability to forces that we can't control,
so that from year to year, you don't know what to anticipate
in terms of revenue from oil, or revenue from sugar, or revenue
from cocoa. It' is very difficult to get them to pay attention to
us, It applies to the whole West Indies.

The Russians have been giving a lot of economic aid to
Castro. Every now and then you hear the statement about the
cost of that aid, the way it is spent (and the Russians don't like
the way it is spent), and always the statement appears--
economic assistance to Cuba which has a higher standard of
living per head of population than the Russians have in Russia.
It will not continue for long. And it is true, ladies and gentle-
men, that in the African countries, the Asian countries in
particular, in India the problem of population and poverty
would be inconceivable to a Trinidadian. The problems that you
would see in a part of West Africa or even East Africa would
be even worse, and I did not go to Central Africa down in the
Congo or even Rhodesia You wouldn't understand it here in

Trinidad and Tobago, you are way above that. When you are
talking about level of population, of training in assisted schools,
primary schools, please remember that the proportion of our
students in secondary schools today is higher than
the proportion of children in many an African country in a
primary school. So that whilst we are developing and arguing
here and getting a little bothered about the development and
pace of development at the secondary level, they are concentrate
ing on the primary level. They are at that stage below where
the more developed countries are concerned not as with Trinidad
with the secondary level, but have gone up to the university
level--the expansion of the university facilities in the United
Kingdom now taking place.
But you will get no economic aid. You may get it here
in terms of technical aid, advice as to how to go about something
and so on, and we need a lot' of that. But even when you get
it, it is not something that we can use. Most of it is tied to
projects where we have to buy the stuff from the country
supplying the aid. They don't give you money, you know, except
for these idiots in one of the local papers in Trinidad and Tobago,
who said the other day that the Trinidad government can't find
the money to pay the Public Service, and therefore the Prime
Minister is going to Russia hoping that the Russians would give
him a huge chunk of money to pay the civil servants. But even
if you were to use the paper to shine your shoes, you would
expect a greater amount of intelligence. The amount of stuff
we have to put up with. Our children being trained in these
secondary schools are exposed to this sort of nonsense. Where
in the name of the 11,000 virgins have you ever heard of a
country giving money to pay teachers and policemen? This slave
mentality that you all have here. They bought and sold you for
so long for so many generations, you still have a lot of people
running about the place, hawking their diseased and super-
annuated facilities to the lowest bidder. Who do you think is
going to give you any money to pay your own public servants?
They wouldn't lend you money for that. and you wouldn't end
anybody to do that.
Why should anybody lend you money to pay public servants?
You can't pay., you can't pay. (Laughter). You can't steal. How
can you steal? You do your best and you try your best and you
look and see. You watch the groups that need. There are
priorities, the national economy, its organization, the
national society, and there is probably one group
that has been subordinated for a long time and you take
the opportunity to give it its proper status in the context of
its responsibilities and what it does for the society as a whole.
And you pay some attention to your people way down the ladder,
whose standards you will try your best to bring up. You might
pay but it is not just a handout. You pay on the basis of a

Iroper appreciation of all issues that are involved. We'll have.
o. settle it

You have people. around you who say that you shouldn't
follow the West, now that you are independent. Every now and
;then the half-wit advocates you should go and follow the com-
munist method. Go and follow what communist method ? What
communism are they talking about anyhow ? Russia ? China.?
Castro ? Tito ? African socialism ? But they have stopped follow-
1thg their own communism. The Russians suddenly discover what
everybody knew all these years, that their economy operated on
the basis'of the ordinary principles but in a different way,, perhaps
with different terminology. They have just discovered that they
have a lot of unemployment,- they have a lot of teenage problems,
they have got to go and modify some of the strict controls and al-
low free market arrangements, and let the peasants sell stuff on
the free market instead of giving it over to the state.

All Castro's economy is in a hopeless mess because of that.
We in Trinidad and Tobago don't control labour or fix wages or
put them in a labour force or put them in the army. Castro has
all that and he can tbll them go and do this, and come out as
volunteers to go:and cut the sugar crop, and if you don't volun-
teer, boy, they report you and the police come for you. You
think this is what you could/do in Trinidad? .You fellows in San
Fernando would stand for that? And if you absent yourself from
work, you have one labour law there, you get a warning and the
first thing is that. you get a cut of so much per cent; and then
the second offence is so and so; 'and the third offence is so and
so, leading ultimately to dismissal. Oh boy, that is control. And
then they say the money is to go here and it is to do that, and
.you take away people's land. And the state puts the bureau-
crat to organise, and they make a hopeless mess of the blooming
thing. If anybody so likes what Castro is doing, boy, take a
boat from Trinidad and go to Cuba tomorrow and stay there.

People are running from there now. If you want to run
there, okay, but don't bring it here, we have difficulties enough
of our own.

The Yugoslavs have their own' communist development. They
have just said that in future every state farm has to pay its way.
What they liad before is- that they used to give it so much money
and if it lost, it just lost and the state paid scime more. They
have to adopt the ordinary, conventional, western principles, of
operating a state enterprise which we are going to have to do in
Trinidad and 'Tbbago. You cannot expect, if you want some
more: money for water and' yot just come to the Government
and say take the money for water. But when you give it is your
money, it's only the people's money; if yen give it for water and
.: 89

you go and waste, the blooming water, then you don't get all the
school places that you want. And if something is to be free I
think it should be the school places. If you had to pay for the
water, you wouldn't do that. You must pay for the water you

If you had to live in a place without water like Curacao and
Aruba and they had to distil the fresh water from the sea water
at tremendous cost, and you saw the factory that was doing it
and you tasted the water, salt before it went in and it comes
out and you tasted it not salt, you would pay through the nose
for that water because it is either that or no water at all, and
you'll see how much it costs to bring the water. But you don't
see Navet, and if you saw Navet, you say 'nice eh! But look at
our PNM government, PNM or die.' (Laughter). But when you
see the money it cost you to build Navet, and so on. Who pays?
Who do you think pays ? Government ? The Government takes
it from you and the more water you waste and the more free
water you waste, the less trained teachers you will have in the

You talk about electricity as if you just bring pressure on
your representative, 'man, the lights in the back streets are so
bad'. Poor fellow Up to ten, fifteen years ago the fellow was
living with candle and now the lights in the back streets are too
bad he can't see. They are not as bright as Harris Promenade.
I agree. Every part of Trinidad and Tobago either has the lights,
or ris asking for the lights. Not a thought as to what it costs
to generate the electricity, what it costs to transmit it; not a
thought that the electricity programme is based on a loan from
the International Bank of so many million dollars which we have
to repay, beginning so and so; that the International Bank has
laid down a condition that the ratio between operating expendi-
ture and revenue must be 70 per cent. That means that you
charge in order to get the revenue to keep spending all that
money. You can't give away electricity. It costs you money.

You borrow money from an American bank to improve the
Telephone Service and at the same time to provide employment.
I myself think the telephone is the greatest nuisance in the
modern world. Why the devil should we take Trinidad taxpayers'
money to facilitate some householder who wants a telephone? By
all means have a telephone, but let the householder iay. You
could live without a telephone. Man, I wish sometimes in my
office that it didn't have a telephone. There would be fewer inter-
ruptions, all sorts of people calling and so on. They may even
call me up on the Education Act But I have a technique, boy;
when I am working I take it off the hook, or keep it on the hook
and take off the hearing aid, so that I can't hear if anybody is
calling me. (Laughter).

You all must learn, they are your assets. When the public
owns something, the public must make it pay, and it must not
be operating at a deficit because, ladies and gentlemen, if it
operates at a loss, it's you who are paying for it. You want to
take your money to provide telephone service for yourselves atd
take teaching service from your children. What sort of economics
is that? What sort of independence is that? You talk big about
all the sacrifice you make for your children. That is what should
be free, because if it is not free, a child from some under-
privileged section in San Fernando doesn't stand a chance.

The way to equalise educational opportunity is to make it
free on the basis of an examination. If we could even give out
some books (you know that we do give out some books). We just
can't give everything. You can't give the child clothes, but the
state would step in to see that you don't attack free secondary
education. There are a lot of enemies of free secondary educa.-
tion. You don't attack the beneficiaries of the secondary educa
tion by making it impossible for underprivileged parents, less
well-off parents, to dress the child so that it doesn't feel ashamed
in respect of the other children in the school. And this uniform
is a new thing. In my day they didn't have it. About the only
uniform that I used to have as a boy at the secondary school was
when the whole family was catching hell, and I didn't have any
clothes, all they had to do was take one of my father's old pants,
cut it down and put it on me, that is all, and I had to go. (Laugh-
ter). What are you laughing at? A lot of you were in the same
positions in your day (loud laughter) and you had to run around
the place. They called me a lot of names in my school days, but
the one which I remember was the time that I used to walk about
with a pair of the cut down trousers from my father and as I
walked about the boys just used to say (you know how harsh we
can be to our own people), the boys used to say 'homespun'. All
of you are laughing now. What are you laughing about? Aren't
you complaining when the school says that you must make the
uniform in the schools and pay so much when you could buy the
stuff yourself? And aren't you complaining when they tell you
you must buy books from a particular book shop?

It is the same concern trying to protect the child's future by
not inflicting on it al the difficulties imposed on parents who
cannot afford to pay the cost charged. But I wouldn't do that
for water because the more you make the water free the more
you waste it, and the more you misunderstand the nature of
the national economy.

We have to db it on our own. Prices are falling everywhere,
labour difficulties are everywhere. Look at Britain, who nqw
has to step in to say that it is going gradually towards the fix-
ing of prices and some control over wage demands. Otherwise

the whole thing breaks up, becomes absurd. Month after month.
three months, six months, a year, you go to England and you
cannot believe the rise in prices in that country. A big coiitry
that ruled the world, up to fifty years ago; today it is in constant
turmoil, it doesn't know from day to day where it is going.

Is it surprising that we should make some effort to organise
and to stabilise our own situation here and to prevent an in-
dividual, group or section seeking a special privilege in educa-
tion, in wages or in concessions to industry without seeing the
whole picture and trying to preserve the identity and the future
of the nation against individual claims and special privileges of
today, of now-for-now, of a 'give me now and I'm not concerned
with tomorrow.' But a nation's future cannot be jeopardised to
that extent and the individual citizen (whilst people continue
to think of their individual interests and in some respects the
individual is the best judge of those individual interests),, the
individual citizen must more and more stop to consider that
the nation's existence is not a matter of today,, tomorrow, but
of years to come; that the parent's welfare'cannot be prosecuted
to the point where it endangers the future development of the
parent's children; and that in the final' analysis a nation as an
individual must establish priorities and those priorities must
see the totality of the national economy and the national exist-
ence and not be concerned with the whims and capriles of
individuals, enlightened or unenlightened, saying that 'I get what
I can, and I get it how I can, and what I achieve will be for
the improvement of the country.'

The whole history of nineteenth century Europe has destroy-
ed that fallacy-that the collective benefit is to be found on the
basis of a number of individual achievements. That is a bad
example to set to your children. It is why I would like to see
a greater emphasis in adult education on discussions of this
sort, to tell you that what appears to be just a simple question,
really if developed that way would lead to a chain reaction which
automatically puts the national plan in danger at this point or at
that point, and what might benefit a small section of the commun.
ity, however important, will have adverse effects on a large
section of the community for whom the government at least
must recognize some responsibility.

It is not possible to develop an education system on the
basis of a few outstanding schools or on the basis of a teacher-
training programme in which Port-of-Spain and San Fernando are
way above St. Patrick. What would happen then? The St. Patrick
children would merely come in and invade the San Fernando
schools. Who can blame them ? Why must you condemn a section
of a country to an educational standard that is lower than the

national average or lower than what the best of the country can
provide ?. It is a hangover of this old period, an old attitude in
the age of colonialism, that education was something that you pay for and only those: would get it who could afford it.
In concession to the twentieth century and the growing welfare
state, you made some concession or are prepared to make some
concession to some brilliant individual who passed an examination
and therefore was taken into the charmed circle. That's a lot of
damned nonsense in 1965.' Thats how I got my education. I was
one of those who managed to.pass an examination for the limited
few that got into the charmed, circle; and when you get into the
charmed cire'e what you do, you.say 'I'll break up the damn
charme -circle.'
In this age of democracy and the PNM you must go for the
national good, and that national good cannot. permit any discrim
nation against any section or individual in the community on
grounds of race or social status or for that matter religion or
previous condition of servitude. You must look at the nation as
a whole, and you cannot. look at the nation as a who'e
in terms of education and say the nation the national
spirit and the national. system must come, and then in terms of
the national economy, you say 'to hell with the national economy.
I'm thinking of my own interest.' But it is the national economy
alone that will make it possible for you to develop any national
system of education. You can't put the nation on top of the bed
when you want it, and then you say 'now it's time to go down on
the floor.' The nation must come first, and you and I have fought
for the achievement of nationhood and making the nation what
it is, infinitely better than a lot of other nations, friends, and in
terms of our spiritual objectives and our general, ordinary every-
day behaviour, we are superior to a lot of those who have re
sources infinitely more important than we will ever be able to
boast of. You cannot come and say that you helped to build up
the nation but as soon as something in terms of the nation's need
the nation's outlook, the nation's perspective, as soon as it affects
you in your little compartment you say, 'to hell with the nation
I am going out for my on .interests whatever they may be.' And
then you say that you want your exclusive little compartment,
you want an exclusive church, you want an exclusive club, you
want an exclusive business, you want this, that and the other. For
God's sake. if everybody is going to be exclusive, somebody must
be inclusive, the governing, party and the Government formed
by the governing party. (Applause).

I hope I have been able to give you a little insight into some
of the questions we don't normally have the time to discuss,
some aspect of things you would possibly know in more general
terms and appreciate, and show them to you in ordinary everyday
terms: the farmer in Chatham, the teacher in a school in San

Fernando, the child- using an inadequate library in a school in
Port of-Spain, and so on. We'll have to do a lot more of these
discussions, these reports, and I repeat what I said to you in the
beginning, I think we are going to hhve to develop some tech-
nique by which these matters are discussed within the schools of
the country, the secondary schools where I'd be surprised if you
don't find an intelligence, perception and appreciation of the
national need and the national urgency that perhaps even exceeds
these qualities and this understanding at adult level.

I am glad to be back in San Fernando, I will come to see San
Fernando in another capacity looking at the new secondary
schools and some of the new primary schools that we have

I am happy to have had the opportunity of discussing one
aspect of this report to the Nation in San Fernando dealing with
the economy.
I thank you all for coming out to listen to us, I wtsh you all
well until we meet again in Harris Promenade, good night to all
of you. Long live the P.N.M. and long live San Fernando.
(Prolonged applause).

. 94


Speech by the Prime Minister, Dr. the Rt
Hon. Eric Williams on Thursday, 28th
October, 1965, at the Old Arima Race Stand

"Mr. Party Chairman, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen:

BEGINNING on Tuesday. 26th October, we started a celebration
in the P.N.M. of the ninth anniversary of our first appearance
in Parliament as the first Party Government in the history of
Trinidad and Iobago. The election was on the 24th September
in 1956 and, in so far as what was then the Legislative Council
was concerned, we took over as a Party on the 26th October.
And we thought that that occasion warranted some commemora-
tion and that it would best take the form of the political educa-
tion that, as the Party Chairman has said, the P.N.M. has
introduced into the country. We went to the University of Wood-
ford Square on Tuesday night and decided that we would there
sveak on what is possibly the most important single activity that
the P.N.M. has undertaken in nine years of power the Reorgan-
isation of the Public Service. Last night we went to San Fernando
and we dealt there with another important contribution of
P.N.M.'s Government to the country, to its development, both
physical and inteilectua1, a discussion of the national economy
in the context ao the Five Year Development Plans which the
P.N.M. has introduced into the country.
I am very happy that it has been possible for us to arrange
the third of these three reports to the nation, to commemorate
the ninth anniversary of our take-over of the Government of the
country as far as the Legislative Council was concerned, to ac-
commodate Arima which we know very well, which is a very
important link in the P.N.M. chain. And we thought we would
come here to talk on perhaps the third great contribution the
P.N.M. has made to the country the emphasis on the national
community. I am glad to see here the Mayor and so many P.N.M.
members of the Arima Borough Council and the chairman of
the P.N.M. constituency of Arima, and so many of the members
of the constituency executive; our friend and colleague in the

Cabinet, Mr. O'Halloran, the Minister in charge of Petroleum,
Mines, Industry and Commerce, is here with us, though I believe
that normally he is very familiar with Arima in another capacity!
(Laughter). I don't know what all the laughter is about, I mean
the Arima Race Course! And I am glad that it was possible for
us and for you to wait for our good friend, Arnold Thomasos.
who outside of here is the Hon. the Speaker of the House of
Representatives We felt on an occasion like this that he ought
to say a few words to his constituents in Arima.
The P.N.M. started its career in Trinidad and Tobago
placing emphasis-some of you, the stalwarts, here tonight
would remember hoW we were sneered at in many quarters-
from the very start on what we then called "inter-racial solid-
arity." And with the achievement of independence and the
emergence of the nation of Trinidad and Tobago as an independ-
ent state among the many independent countries of the world,
we have altered the phrasing somewhat and concentrated more
on what we have called "the national community." I think per-
haps, ladies and gentlemen, you of Arima, that I might be able
to show you the significance of the national community as the
objective of the P.N.M., the national objective in Trinidad and
Tobago. and be able to show you the progress that P.N.M. has
made towards that national community, show you this a little
better if we stop for a while, which we ought to do every now
and then as an independent state. especially a very small one.
less than a million people (you could drive around it in a few
hours), stop for a minute and see what happens in other nations.
the majority of them independent. some of them not yet
United States
What sort cf community do they have? To what extent is it
a national community? Take first and foremost the United
States of America--not only because it is perhaps the most
powerful nation in the world today, but also because the absence
of a genuine national community is possibly more obvious in the
United States of America than in most other countries.
Everyone here knows the problem of civil rights in the
United States of America. A struggle that has been going on
for one hundred years, in so far as one can say that the decisive
landmark in the history of the United States as a nation is the
abolition of slavery and the establishment of freedom. political
and social freedom, at all levels of the United States community
and in all parts of the territory.
A hundred years after that decisive event in the world's
history. you have racial segregation in schools; you have the
Federal Government of the United States bringing out numbers
of Federal troops to protect the right of one single coloured man
to enter a university in some section of the country; you have

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