Title: Transcripts of interviews conducted by Gwendolen M. Carter, 1972-1985
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Permanent Link: http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00095707/00062
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Title: Transcripts of interviews conducted by Gwendolen M. Carter, 1972-1985
Physical Description: Archival
Language: English
Creator: Carter, Gwendolen M.
Copyright Date: 1985
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Bibliographic ID: UF00095707
Volume ID: VID00062
Source Institution: University of Florida
Holding Location: University of Florida
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David Webster--Johannesberg, 1985
rirms depend on xamslas cheap labor, lots of hand labor.
The mines are in a technological revolution. The need fewer workers. At Swatclip Mine
they have 6000 blacks and M& 350 whites with a ratio of 1 white to 50 blacks underground.
This is white racist HPF country.
There has been a stabilizing of the migrant labor gorce. The Kine Workers Union)
The new pattern is to call in the workers work card and issue them a card with three moons on it,

they get their job back plus a bonus and a salary raise if they are back on time. It is not
related to the harvest season anymore.

45Yu of the tataswanan labor is in xastpik Boputhatswana.


The MNR is moving south and now is in the Maputo region. The CIO Rhodesia moved into eastern
Transvaal but activities moved with the shift in of their bases.

They are so successful not because they still enjoy their original support nor do they have
a political persuasion---they kill people. The rape and nose cutting has now stopped but they

are very feared.
Renamo moves in gangs of 90 to 300 while Frolimo maintains only small garrisons of 30 men.

There is a south African connection xeugExnkx with Morocco through the Commore Islands with
air drops to 1NR. Aug 1984 issue of Newsweek with Olympic games in it. South Africa
trades Korocco with arms, Morroco supplies phosphates.


Vits SRC spy there were 4 out of 12 who were police. Derrik Magavin, et. al. Brune was exposed
as a spy in the USAS trials (Eddie 'Webster, etc. 1974) Now he has the academic desk at Jan
il b Foster.
There have been 200 incidents of police harassment over -ue past year. Attacks on houses,

phone threats, unmarked cars identified as police cars. Assasinations of blacks.


The academics are isolated from white opinion. The average white is unaware of black political
events. In East London they don't even know what isgoing on in Ciskei. The whites are
afraid but trouble is in the townships.
East London had an open school Masanzani (in E. L. Central) but John Ken-Berman closed it down.

IRR is like the Urban Foundation but it does research. They seem to be giving a lot of support
to Gatcha and Inkata. JKB rewrote the survey to make it more favorable to Gatcha. Gatcha's
influence has iist~iix declined. The UDF is a real blow, it is no, racial and democratic.

UDF is a regional organization. East London was Beko but now you cant find Black Consciousness
there today. Rev. Stofile was BC ideology but is now UDF
AZAPO is maybe 300 active members but is well represented in the Sowetan by kWASA members.

Nevel Alexander, Cape action League, 2-3000, moved in black townships, used grass roots/CIfS .





David Webster--page 2.
Black Consciousness is being used as a movement that people moved through. Although it was
important psychologically it is now history.
UDF itself/ SAWU provides muscle Committee of Ten/ RD/ Rival youth COSAS (school) AZASO (univ)
youth Congress / Civic Associations
East London Youth Congress, vs East London Youth Organization
Heavy ikando Essewe, COSAS link
Robins Island release gains respect in community
There is mass emotional support for the ANC.
The spectrum is;
Nationalist Tendency--Mandela/ Mkondo Eseswe/ Workerist, Gwala (SACTU)
The militants stay back from the UDF because it is too moderate.


Soweto--the local Civic Associations used the local winable issues, clothes lines, paving, etc.
to show people that you can get things done. At the Soweto Civic Association they then take
up larger issues that affect the whole township.
Motlana seems to have lost popularity because of his association with Inkata.
AZAS is new and small/COSAS is activists with mass organization in the schools/ Soweto
Youth Congress has 1-2000 (opa Monoreng)/ RMC is the old BC, Aubri Moquena, Curtis Mkondu,
Meri Ramgobin--reckless.
The Youth Congress was organized under a UDF initiative--it is for unemployed youth (25 year olds)
and tends to be militant.
UDF is the legal altrenative voice of the dNC and the S YCO are the footworkers.
DDF harassment in the form of aspination% police leave a call in card and mf those who ignore the
card and don't show up for questioning 50% are detained/ under section 50 Criminal Proceedings
Act people are held for 48 hrs.
The army has been used to man roadblocks, the police to do searches but it is hard to tell them
apart .


The Black Consciousness has been converted to socialism (Alexander) they have a racial rhetoric
and their practice is totally racist.
AZAPO congress in cape Town-Frank Yontino lives in colored area and is married to a colored.




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