Title: Transcripts of interviews conducted by Gwendolen M. Carter, 1972-1985
Full Citation
Permanent Link: http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00095707/00044
 Material Information
Title: Transcripts of interviews conducted by Gwendolen M. Carter, 1972-1985
Physical Description: Archival
Language: English
Creator: Carter, Gwendolen M.
Copyright Date: 1985
 Record Information
Bibliographic ID: UF00095707
Volume ID: VID00044
Source Institution: University of Florida
Holding Location: University of Florida
Rights Management: All rights reserved by the source institution and holding location.

Full Text

UDF-Johannesberg, 1985.

Relation of UDF to original group is such tha* there is organization but it may go spontEnious,

'ye try to control but its an action in hostile territory. The government may try to provoke
trouble. Mdtanzama bi.nne the UDF. Sebe lLshed out at SA'... In Ciskei no more than 12

people c.n attend r: gathering legally.
COSAA--gotcha did ,ot ban it but regulated it at lu univcruiiy. Azauo; 200 ubuiuonto woro

not allowed to start school. And Archy Gomadi was assaulted at -Tbabani.

Joint Rent Action Committee--Durban---Gatcha wants control over UDF organized area.

Inkata membership is often necessary to get a job.

Cnce an organization joins UDF then all members become ULF members. Money is generated by the

organizations. X

We nave been subjected to disinformation campaigns rumors of assination plots. Blind

and mindless violence ir. the Vaal.

The Eational Forum don'tt really exist" that is they have no popular base. They are not a competitor.

The UDF does not see other groups as enemies. There are a number of affiliated unions, Fosatu

is not formally affiliated but many of the workers have pressured for them to affiliate and

the leadership is coming around, ue have talked together.

Consumer boycotts ai are effective, Zimpa Chips reinstated 400 workers.

The UDF, the key affiliates, the unions were the main actors in the Nov 5-6 stay-away.

Education is one of our ongoing campaigns. There is an educational crisis. Last week the
parents and the children got together to look at coordination of boycotts across the nation.
C6SAS---high echoob UDF and civic committees parents raised issues.

Students have spelled out deianos and the ruling group must come to terms wth them.

The treason trial is to drain resources and shift attention. Expect an 18 month trial with
150' ~t.ooenas tlen we cr..ck or jcil millions. 'he 1960 barnings show that co:imitted people don't

quit. 1000s would ao underground if UDF was banned so the government, is holding off.

After the constitution is accepted then mcjybe the government will move. They pulled back

for Reagtn's election but nob that the next 4 years are determined they may change.


There is a crisis of credibility in black education. Teachers teach and students learn in
a system that they reject. Black students are about 2 years older than their white peers.
Black kios get politicized so much earlier than whites, its a consequence of their life experi-
ence. They are aware of their powerlessness in a hated system. The teachers are poor and all
blame -gets focused on the system.
You need not postualte an outside agitator to explain the unrest.
The students are older, they are politicized, when they close the university the idle university
students mover back to an urban setting and get involved in student movements. COSAS, and AZUZU
are often in a colapetion that leads to radicalism as each tries to out do .the other.

Major complaints-Teachers don't teach. Sometimes they take teachers for inservice training
and don't provide a substitute to take over their class. I:any are teaching without qualifications.
Sometimes these people hide to avoid dealing with the students, or they get drunk.

There is a belief that when matriculation scores are low that it is a result of a deliberate 1
policy to keep blacks out of the universities.
The number of people leaving school and entering university is up about 5 times in 5 years.
The system can't take the strain of this expansion. There are changes in demographic factors--
people are acquiring a wider range of skills. 1) more stay at school longer; 2) a larger
%xai percentage of the Africans are economically better off; 3) there are more schools now,
60 high schools in Sweto( were 25 before).
In 1976-77 the youth fled, they left the system. Now the kids have come back and that expands
the size of the school population.
The African areas are under administration boards.
The Vander Walt Report(head of Potchestrom) a 700 page unpublished report on the vaal unrest
in a released statement said that d education was not a cause of the unre::t. The man tried to
do a good job but the report is not to be released.
"No mommie, we don't go to school today; today is power!"
Its a volitle situation, Boweto wrote matric 6 weeks before tne end of the tenn. The students
can't afford r:ot to.
"Freedom now, degrees later."
Disinvestent could be radical with no replacement of industry, or moderate with companies that
dont block bllek advwiceuLorJ beirin welcome. Moral preure from stockholderL may work.
Walpie stopped the money ($4 million) from going to the institute. "If a university is
cloued ior "L a year Lui( uJd IL ;t f1ulJ ald?" of ;i 5 Blick uiivi V ityr:, ''rnn did not write exams.
There is an exia.ma of casinos at'cU tUU h: coulntly iZ cociailly (lienruptive---the lure of' "; uibing
and prostitution.

Standards of schools: At the secondary level, 1) some Africans get into white private schools
--Catholic schools. 2)PACE, Black private schools, St Barnibus.
Vits planned on a 35 growth rate but it has a 7/% rate.
The quality of Indian education is closer to white education, and colored education is
closed to African education. Of the "blacks" at Vits, african, 3/4 colored and Indian.
Vits in Capetown is running a bridging project. We know that most black students tax do not
have a home environment that is conducive to a University education.
There are now some very wealthy professionals some black primary school heads get 30,000 rand.
The time for calling Blacks stupid is over.
Society is organized so that whites don't meet their social and intellectual equals.

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