Title: Transcripts of interviews conducted by Gwendolen M. Carter, 1972-1985
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Permanent Link: http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00095707/00034
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Title: Transcripts of interviews conducted by Gwendolen M. Carter, 1972-1985
Physical Description: Archival
Language: English
Creator: Carter, Gwendolen M.
Copyright Date: 1982
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Bibliographic ID: UF00095707
Volume ID: VID00034
Source Institution: University of Florida
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Interview with Tony bazner Dept. of Economic Planning
P.O. Box A382 (hmae) Ministry of Manpower Development
Swazi Plaza
Mbabane, Swaziland

The Maputo document posed the member states of Sadoc with a problem.
The level at which decisions could be taken was not clear. The in-
dividual states were to take charge of their own Sadcc portfolios
and run them with their own resources. However, they could not do
all they wanted, because at certain points, their actions haito be
given a blessing by Sadcc as an entity. In addition, the underlying
assumption ix was made that the administrative structure in each
country had sufficient slack in it that it could take on additional
responsibilities without sacrificing the quality of the work it was
performing for its own government. This has turned out t, be only partially
true. Tony Orazner spends about 50% of his time on Sadcc r*ted work
while he was sent to Swaziland to help them with their domestic problems.
Thus, in the short tun, Swaziland is not getting the amount of production
from its foreign technicians / advisors that it might otherwise receive.
Whether or not in the long run this will equalize with the increased
benefits that Sadcc brings is yet to be seen.
One possibly wapy to reconcile this problem, in Orazner's pyes
is to establish a Regional Training Council with the secretariat. This
couAAil would provide technical and administrative assistance to
Swaziland. In general, the idea is that the administrative work could
be taken over by the Secretariat.

Zambia
Zambia is getting a raw deal in Badcc. Zambia has made two proposals
for Sadcc projects kx 'and has been very keen on the adoption of both.
Zambia fought for both the Vet school and the Development bank and wanted
both to be located in Zambia. Both were turned down in a public forum--
the Standing Committee of Officials. The Bank project was turned down
because of its size and scope and the Vet school because of its cost
and the fact that Zxmkt Zimbabwe was planning to expand the one that it
has anyway. One of the key points here was that Zimbabwe requires
A levels for entry to its university while other countries do not. Since
Zimbabwe's schools offer more A level training, Zimbabwe will have an
advantage in obtaining training positions.
After the two Zambian xarxlt initiated projects had been turned down,
Zimbabwe proposed that Mining should become a Sadcc portfolio and the ,
Ministers quickly gave the topic to Zambia. The work is that no' sooner
had this been offered~ than Zambia jumped at the chance to take it on.
This move, at least in part, helped to smooth over some of the rough
edges that were developing between Zambia and the .Best of Sadcc.

Mozambi4ue
Mozambique is one of the most serious members of Sadtcco and is by
far the maxx beet prepared for the meetings. They always wend the same
people, so thgir depth of experience is great. They also attend the
meetings with great deal of gagularity.

Lesotho
Losotho has no area of its own. Zimbabwe has proposed that it
take ofer the responsibility for soil conservation and forestry. Rural
health was a Swazi responsibility, but it produced no paper on the subject.
There is talk of transferring this responsibility to Maseru, since the
regional offiow of WHO is located there. There is some reluctance to





Orazner p. 2


Ther~\talk -ransf ir thi spoasilit3- o aS sla-esthe"
regional'Nofice of'-WO0 is lxe8ated these. "aere -some Lctan ieto
expand the responsibilities of Sadoo at this time, before it kas been
able to consolidate its action in the areas it has already taken on.

Motivating force Behind Sadcc
is very European. Green,Sheehy, and Anderson are and were the
moving forces.
xItsxtrkX
The nature of Sadcc is manifested in the projects that it is
undertaking oxfn the ground, not in its administrative structure.
This cuuld be a set back when (if) the administrative structure is
insufficient to administer and supervise the
projects on the gound. Handling the documents even now is difficult and
this capacity must increase.

Major Problem
The increase in responsibility that Sadcc has placed upon the
administrative structures of the member states has tended to fall on
the shoulders of high level decision-makers hand has thus tended to
burden them with routine administrative tasks. These tasks need to
be moved to a lower level.

Secretariat
The goals should be to coordinate technical meetings. This will
require them to spend a considerable amount of thdar time on airplanes
and in hotels making a ointments for other groups, but this would
be a very valuable ta~i f. Currency, there are no plans to have
someone with skill in documentation organization located in the Secretariat.
This is going to create problems. At the highest level, there will be
a need to obtain technical assistance. The key problem to avoid will
be the strengthening of an already strong European presence.

Council of Ministers
Two channels of communication exist hitmnxKLhk with the Council
of Ministers. The firsts through the Technical Commissions, of which
therais currently only one-- the Southern African Transport and Communication
Commission-- and through the specialized technical sub-committees of the
Standing Committee of Officials. The recommendations of each could
conflict According to the SATOO man in Maputo, though, the recommendations
that SAW~0 puts forth are so good, that the sub committee always agrees,
with them. Theris, however, a potential problems here.

Decision Making in SAdcc o
Sadcc is so amorphi that- Jhe decision making structure is unclear.

0,of Minemeetings
The Chairman of the 0, of Ministers is alseways accompanied by
the Liaison Committee from London.

Decision Making:. Where does it lie? COof Mint Summit? European
Triumverate? Liason Committee? High Commissioners in London?

Rational behind Sadcc is to increase the amount of aid southern Africa
gets, Thix goal has been accomplished.




Vrazner p. 3


Prioritizing goals in Sadocg Projects4
Sadcc determine needs and general priorities and then aid is solicited.
-the major innovation in this area is that the Sadcc countries retain some
degree of control over their own destiny by first coming up with
areas and projects for which they desire assistance. Consultancies,
even if they might prempt the answer to a specific problem, will at
&east influence the direction of the solution.

Contact points
iach sector in each country shaold have a contact point within each
country. Relying on one contact point for all of Sadcc who will then
identify the relevant people in each sector of his or her own government
has not worked. The relevant technical people in each of the portfolio
areas in each country should be identified.




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