Title: Transcripts of interviews conducted by Gwendolen M. Carter, 1972-1985
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Title: Transcripts of interviews conducted by Gwendolen M. Carter, 1972-1985
Physical Description: Archival
Language: English
Creator: Carter, Gwendolen M.
Publication Date: 1982
Copyright Date: 1982
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Bibliographic ID: UF00095707
Volume ID: VID00022
Source Institution: University of Florida
Holding Location: University of Florida
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Interview with Paul Spray
Secretary to the SADCC Liason Committee
22 Coleman Fields
London N1 7AF

The Liason Committee in London is composed of all the High Commissinners
and Ambassadors for the Sadcc members states in London. In addition,
Paul Spray, David Anderson, and Reginald Green are members as individuals.
Since Angola has no representative in London, its Ambassador to Brussels
attendsd most of the important meetings. The purpose behind the
Committee is to share information and to help to coordinate meetings
bf the the various Sadcc bodies in Africa. The Botswana High Commissiong
r is chairman of the LiasonCommittee and in this capacity attends the
meetings of the Countil of Ministers.

Sadcc is governed by three additional bodies, the Summitt, the Council
of Ministers, and the Standing Committee of Officials, in in descending
level of authroity. The council of Ministers meets three times per year
and serves and the primary decision making body. The Summit gives final
approval to the ministers and fur~ r states the political interest of
each state in Sadcc. The Cmmmittee of Officials is made mi up of the
Perm Secs. Below this level, specific project areas or mixx portfolios
are allocated to each mambe r.wich then organizes the meetings necessary
to develop projects in the On. Oae of the problems at th&s lower
level has been attendance. Oftentimes the logistical problems of getting
the proper people informed and to the place of the meeting in sufficient
time result in a low level of attendance. The second major
problem is that of manpower. The domestic responsibilities of the ministers
and the officials take most of their time, and consequently, they are
not able to allocate sufficient time to Sadoc projects, and cooperation.

Some of the administrative burden will be taken over by the Secretariat
when it opens in Botswana in July. The job* &f the secretary general,
or executive secretary will be largely defined thM by the first appointee,
however, the major function will be to disseminate information about
upcoming meetings and the results of meetings which have just taken pace.

At the level of the technical sub-committee$Sadoc has divided its
areas of interest into different portfolios, ea6h of which has been
assigned to a f~tadifferent member state. Transport and food security,
the two top priorities, have been assigned to Mozambique and Zimbabwe respect-
ively, while Manpower development, industrial development, mining,
soil conservation, fisheries and wildlife, animal diseases, have been
assigned to Swaziland, Tanzania, Zambia, Lesotho, Malawi4 Botsaana.
Energy has been assigned to Angola.

The progress in the areas of transport has been greater than any of the.
other areas B&low is a short statement about each of the sectors:

Manpower: very little has been done. See interview with Tony Orasner

Industrial development: thts islhe subject of the next summit meeting
which will be held in Lesotho. To date, projects remain at the level
of studies, see Blue Book SADCC I. The earliest growth in this area
will be in the development of small industries in each country. The
areas in which one factor can serve the entire region will be the most
difficult coordinate action i the late1T'reas, o3e-Aountr
gj-ts the entna re, where Ng eZ e formerr, ovubopae~-ets a.-t,




Spray p. 2


ZLp difficult to coordinate action in. In the latter areas, one country
gets the entire pie, where in the xxart former, everyone gets a bit.

Agriculture (FOOD Security)-- the early warning system will be constructed
by PAO and will be modeled bn the one which used to function in Tanzania.

Animal Diseases: Botswana has developed a va ne which is effective
throughout the entire Sadcc region. Botswana also has the capacity to
product sufficient quantities for the entire area.

Energy: still at the study stage. very encouraging, but still needs
quite a bit of work.

Mining: Zambia. Find the story about the assignment of Mining to Zambia.

Sadcc and other international organizations:
The EEC has been very keen on Sadcc and has been very generous with
the levels of funding it has provided for regional development projects
in southern Africa. MxxxSBRxanxyxth

The Economic CommtSsion for Africa and the UN Development Program
have had more mixed relations with Sadco. The ,ob of the ECA is to
coordinate regional development plans for different parts of Africa.
Theue is should be one Nt for Southern Africa, West Africa, and so on.
Rather than this, they have yput their efforts into a preqfat ntial trade
agregtjht which is supposed to include thk all the eighteen states in
central and southern africa. The PTA is not expected to huve a major
impacton the area and some tension exists between the two organizations.

Front Line States and Sadcc
The fls were very important ingvlying Dirth ,ti the notion of Sadoc.
The genxxaeral notion is that ad will focus W' attention on the
political aspects of the liberation of southern Africa, and Sadcc will
focus its attention on coordinated development projects. Mal'Itesotho,
and S`azi, can all take coordinated development, but may not be able to agree
with the statements of Rat the PLS,

Botswana:
Selected to be the location of the secretariat because of its good
relations with nearly all of the member states & because of its lack
of internal problems.
The administration in Votwwana is quite good just like the World Bank
ssB it is, however it relies.to a great extent upon expatrioat
personnel. At some point they will need to face the question of a
transition to a Batswanan administration.

Angola: desperately wants to end the war and better its relations
with the US. It has a strong revenue base with its oil which most
other countries do not have.

Mozambique: faces an inability to make decisions. The country is faced
with extremely limited sources of revenue and an unwillingness to
"Ipwtow" to the EEC and the IMP/IBRD in order to better its revenue
position. A group of hard line economists in the Min of Plan. will
probably continue to fight thtx international memberships for some time.




spray p. 3


Sadcc General
The R'eason Sadoo has momentum is because it is important politically;
because it is fn indioztor of non-alignment (them countries in southern
Africa are not always puppets either to the East of the west and they
are able to settle differences with their neighbors) and because of their
collective dependence upon south Africa and the dangerous position this
has placed and will continue to pace them *. na Ttir erd.
There ate small signs of cooperation beyond Sadcc. Zimbabwean food
is currently going throughI international channels and is ending up
in neighboring countries. Botwwana copper and nick, is being refined
at Batooma because of the world glut of copper. Rio Tinto Mining
(Zimbabwe) is doing the refining.

In Sadcc, integration does not mean trade agreement.

Goals of SAD0O: The currant set of activities centers around the com-
position of feasibility studies, most of which have been put out to
international consulting firms. The major effort will not be to "put
up master plans for the region,\ but rathty to put up sets of projects
which will benefit the participants. The major goals is to identify those
projects that are already in the pipelines of the member states and to
see how they can ha best be linked together.




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