Title: Transcripts of interviews conducted by Gwendolen M. Carter, 1972-1985
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Permanent Link: http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00095707/00012
 Material Information
Title: Transcripts of interviews conducted by Gwendolen M. Carter, 1972-1985
Physical Description: Archival
Language: English
Creator: Carter, Gwendolen M.
Copyright Date: 1972
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Bibliographic ID: UF00095707
Volume ID: VID00012
Source Institution: University of Florida
Holding Location: University of Florida
Rights Management: All rights reserved by the source institution and holding location.

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IIITErVIE', WITH PROF. ELAINE BOTHA with Lourens du Plessis commenting.

She talked initially about the problems they had encountered "post-
Koinionia" particularly in their relationship with "Loft". There was a
basic difference in the Afrikaner and English approach. This was "par
and parcel of a historical difference". The Afrikaner, in order to be
able to continue speaking to his own community, had to remain within
confines of the Laager. The Afrikaner liberal is tolerated provided
provided he keeps his Afrikaner image and is not seen as part of an
English grpup
Loft had been insensitive to the fact that it would be self-defeating
for the Potch group to destroy their base within Afrikanerdom"
They and Loft had khaxapRanix a common base in Mhristianity.
There had originally been very open discussion on Christian principleS
But political overtones had superceded.
She felt that the Africans inLoft had had the same community credibil"
ity problem as they had.
They had now passed the ball to the executive of the Afrikaans Calvin
ist movement. The Executive wanted to co-operate with Loft but did n
not yet know how.
Loft had just become aware of the reality of Black Consciousness as
a movement Black Consciousness was good but Koinionia felt that
extremes were never good.
Asked about the homelands, she felt that real consolidation of the
homelands was a good thing, one had to be realistic and accept that
they were a non-reversible fact. What existed should be built on.
One must take cogniscance of ethnic differe e, but the present
use of them to divide and rule was wrong. Th reality of ethnicity
must,however be accepted. There were 4 Blacks whe were regularly
present at Loft discussions.
She felt that approaches had to be essentially pragmatic.
She accepted that Black nationalism was the medium for the oppressed
to realise themselves. But as an Afrikaner, she could see the
dangers from her people's own historical experience. She used the ter
"Black Realisation" and said that this must be without compulsion.
She agreed with Gwen that Blacks were following"the perfect example
of Afrikanerdom"
She said that the ideological overtones were frightening.
Mention was made of the S.A.Church Leadership Assembly to take place
in July. This was part of a grassroots movement to bring people to-
gether. It was better to have an open Black Consciousness movement
than terrorism.
Lourens pointed out that much of Koinionia Declaration was recognisek
and accepted in Afrikaans circles. It was the timing of it that had
been resented. It had at least been"the witness of movement"
Elaine spoke of the urgent need for"structural change at the top"
On Namibia, Elaine felt that the Turnhalle had been a good thing,
particularly because it had"not involved political bodies" L
She and Lourens agreed with Gwen that whites were really reaching out
Neither of them took up Gwen's response to their asking for her
impression of Transkei and Kwa-Zulu. (Gwen said that she had found
great pride and a real attempt to create, but thatthere was, even in
the Transkei, no acceptance of the Status Quo She also remarked a4W cAS
that there was"a basic determination to demonstrate that if they have
to die they will")
Elaine said that a solution would have to be found by negotiation
In reply to Gwen's comment that there was far too little exchange1 Sho
spoke of the workshops on Goudhart and Zylstra that had been held by
26 Blacks & 20 Whites at Zac de Beer's house.
She felt (& Louren's agreed that the Potch students were definitely
more "verlig"- they were arranging meetings and symposia with blacks
- but the blacks often let them down.




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