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Title: Saint Vincent government gazette
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Full Citation
STANDARD VIEW MARC VIEW
Permanent Link: http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00077473/01524
 Material Information
Title: Saint Vincent government gazette
Alternate Title: Government gazette
St. Vincent government gazette
Physical Description: v. : ; 35 cm.
Language: English
Creator: Saint Vincent
Publisher: G.P.O.
Place of Publication: Kingstown, St. Vincent
Kingstown St. Vincent
Publication Date: March 4, 1952
Frequency: weekly
regular
 Subjects
Subject: Gazettes -- Periodicals -- Saint Vincent   ( lcsh )
Genre: federal government publication   ( marcgt )
legislation   ( marcgt )
periodical   ( marcgt )
Spatial Coverage: Saint Vincent and the Grenadines -- Saint Vincent
 Notes
Dates or Sequential Designation: v. 1, no. 1 (1868)-v. 112, no. 48 (Tues., 23 Oct. 1979)
General Note: Description based on: Vol. 111, no. 1 (Tues., 3 Jan. 1978); title from caption.
General Note: Supplements which accompany some numbers contain extraordinary issues, ordinances, statutory rules of order, etc.
 Record Information
Bibliographic ID: UF00077473
Volume ID: VID01524
Source Institution: University of Florida
Holding Location: University of Florida
Rights Management: All rights reserved by the source institution and holding location.
Resource Identifier: oclc - 19844741
lccn - sn 89018505
 Related Items
Succeeded by: Government gazette

Table of Contents
    Main
        Page 67
        Page 68
        Page 69
        Page 70
    Statutory Rules and Orders No. 12: The Public Lotteries Order, 1952
        Page A-41
        Page A-42
    Statutory Rules and Orders No. 13: The Motor Vehicles and Road Traffic (Amendment) Regulations 1952
        Page A-43
        Page A-44
    Statutory Rules and Orders No. 14: The Prices Control (Amendment No. 7) Notice, 1952
        Page A-45
        Page A-46
        Page A-47
        Page A-48
    Supplement to Gazette: minutes of meetings of the Legislative Council held on the 6th December, 1951
        Page B-51
        Page B-52
        Page B-53
        Page B-54
        Page B-55
        Page B-56
        Page B-57
        Page B-58
        Page B-59
        Page B-60
        Page B-61
        Page B-62
        Page B-63
        Page B-64
        Page B-65
        Page B-66
        Page B-67
        Page B-68
        Page B-69
        Page B-70
        Page B-71
        Page B-72
        Page B-73
        Page B-74
        Page B-75
        Page B-76
        Page B-77
        Page B-78
Full Text













r'


SAINT VINCEN


GOVERNMENT


GAZETTE


tu Ili!.hed b inthorityn.


VOL. 85.] SAINT VINO!CNT, TUESDAY, 4 MARCH, 1952.


[No. 15.


GOVERNMENT NOTICES.

.No. 108.
VISIT OF HIS EXCELLENCY THE GOVERNOR TO SAINT LUCIA.

His Excellency the Governor, Brigadier Sir R. D. H. ARUNDELL, K.C.M.G.,
O.B.E., proceeded to Barbados on 1st March en route to St. Lucia where he is
expected to arrive on the 4th March on an official visit.
His Excellency proposes to return to Grenada on 18th March.
During His Excellency's absence from Grenada, His Honour WALLACE
MACMILLAN, Administrator of Grenada. will be Governor's Deputy.
4th March, 1952.
(A. 211950).


No. 109.
APPOINTMENTS.
STAMP VENDORS.

The undermentioned persons have
been appointed Licensed Stamp Vendors
for the year 1952 :-
Miss H. GWENDOLEN
CROPPER -Kingstown
Mrs. VILNA Cox -
REGINALD Cox, Esq., -


FRED J. DARE, Esq., -
GEORGE A. ROBERT-
SON, Esq.,
F. H. SCOTT, Esq., -
J. E. RICHARDS, Esq., -(
CYRIL VELOX Esq., -


Georgetown
Layou

Bcquia '


CYRIL E. MCINTOSH,
Esq.,
4th March, 1952.
(Q. 1511948).


No. 110.
TROUMACA VILLAGE COUNCIL.

Mr.~THEOPHILUS :HARRY as Chair-
mnan of the Tronmaca Village Council
with effect from the 17th January, 1952.
4th March, 1952.
(A. 85/1948).

No. 111.
RESUMPTION.

With reference to Notice No. 537
published in the Government Gazette
of 6th November, 1951, Mr. ERROL
COMMA, Acting Assistant Superinten-
dent (f Works, resumed duties as
Dranghtsman Computer and Estimator,
Public Works Department, with effect
from 1st March, 1952.
4th March. 1952.
(P. F. 273).


.-.
Z .h~1*


-4


CP


I ~ II a~


-














S68 SAINT VINCENT, TUESDAY, 4 MARCH, 1952.-(No. 15).


p. No. 112. No. 118.
S ACTING APPOINTMENTS. LEGISLATION.

S Mr. O. E. LEIGHTERWOOD, Junior The following Documents are pub-
Clerk, Government Office, as Senior lished with this issue of the Gazette:-
Clerk, Electricity and Telephone De- S.R. & O. No. 12.-The Public Lot-
partment with effect from 3rd Septem- series Order, 1952.
ber, 1951. (J. 36/1944).
Ah ,, h, 195 A


(P. F. 237).
(P. F. 237).


No. 113.
Mrs. S. E. MoKELL, Junior Clerk,
Government Office, as Senior Clerk,
with effect from 3rd September, 1951,
and until further notice.
4th March, 1952.
(P. F. 402).

No. 114.
Mr. JULIAN FRANCIS, Foreman Build-
er, Public Works Department, has been
appointed to act as Assistant Superin-
tendent of Works with effect from 1st
March, 1952, and until further notice.
4th March, 1952.
(P. F. 329).

No. 115.
TEMPORARY TRANSFER.

Mr. A. J. DA SILVA, Senior Clerk,
Electricity and Telephone Department,
to Public Works Department with effect
from 25th September, 1951.
4th March, 1952.
(P. F. 79).

No. 116.
TERMINATION OF PROBATIONARY
APPOINTMENT.

With reference to Notice No. 180
published in the Government Gazette of
4th April, 1950, the probationary ap-
pointment of Mr. HAROLD LLEWELLYN
as Assistant Surveyor, Public Works
Department, has been terminated with
effect from 29th February, 1952.
4th March, 1952.
(P. F. 527).

No. 117.
LABORATORY COURSE.

M'r. CONRAD ADAMS, Laboratory Tech-
nicfan. Colonial H hospital, left the Colony
on 1st March for Trinidad to commence
a three months course of triniing in
La oratory work under a C.D. & W.
Scldeme.
4th March, 1952. .
(P. F.4).
\


S.R. & 0. No. 13.-The Motor Vehicles
and Road Traffic (Amendment)
Regulations 1952.
(J. 15/1943).

S.R. & 0. No. 14.-The Prices Control
(Amendment No. 7) Notice, 1952.
(J.5/1951).
4th March, 1952.



No. 119.
SUPPLEMENT TO GAZETTE.

Copies of minutes of meeting of the
Legislative Council held on the 6th
December, 1951, which may also be
seen at the Government Office, Kings-
town Library, and at all Revenue Offices
and District Post Offices, are published
with this issue of the Gazette.

By Command,

A. L. SAMUEL,
Acting Government Secretary.

GOVERNMENT OFFICE,
4th March, 1952.


DEPARTMENTAL


AND


OTHER NOTICES.


LAND AND HOUSE TAX NOTICE.

The General Public is hereby notified
that forms for notifying Transfers of
Property on the Land and House Tax
Roll can be obtained at the Land and
House Tax Office and at Revenue Offices
and at all Police Stations throughout
the Colony.

V. D. ARCHER,
Colonial Treasurer.


Treasury Chambers,
St. Vincent B. W. T.
23rd February, 1952.


I' WI S P















SAINT VINCENT, TUESDAY, 4 MARCH, 1952.-(No. 15). 69


NOTICE.


UNDER THE LIQUOR LICENCE ORDINANCE, 1948.


It is hereby notified for general information that the Quarterly Liquor
Licensing Sessions will be held in the under-mentioned Parishes for the purpose
of considering applications from applicants in their respective Parishes for the
granting of certificates in accordance with the Liquor Licence Ordinance, 1948,
at the time and places following:-
.-- r s i--:


Parish.

St. George & St. Andrew



Charlotte



St. David



St. Patrick



Grenadines


Time and Place of Session.

... At the Court House, Kingstown, on Wed-
nesday 19th March, 1952, at 10 o'clock
in the forenoon.

.At the Court House, Georgetown, on
Friday 21st March, 1962, at 11
o'clock in the forenoon.

... At the Court House, Chateaubelair, on
Tuesday 18th March, 1952, at 11
o'clock in the forenoon.

At the Court House, Barrouallie, on
Thursday 13th March, 1952, at 11
o'clock in the forenoon.

... At the Court House, at Port Elizabeth,
Beqnia, on Wednesday 2nd April
1952, at 11 o'clock in the forenoon.


Notice of intention to oppose the grant of any Certifi6ate stating in general
terms the grounds of the opposition, must be served upon the applicant and
upon the Magistrate not less than seven days before the lay fixed for the holding
of this Licensing Session.


D. K. McINTYRE.
Magistrate.



PARTICULARS OF APPLICANTS FOR NEW CERTIFICATES.

Parish. Nane of Applicant. Occupation. Residence. situation of
NePremises.


St. George & St. Ratho Mill
Andrew Tower Hotel -- -- Ratho Mill
Drayton Walker S':o p'; (per Fontain Fonntain

SGeorge Lewis
John ., Blnir Bi1air
Charlotte Percy Crich lon Proprirtor O'E rirn' O'Brien's
Valle I Valley

P. K. McINTYRi.:,
M'l, istrate.

MAGISTRATE'S OFFICE,
KIINoSTOWN.
19th Felrnlary, 1 :2.












SAINT VINCENT, TUESDAY, 4 MARCH, 1952.-(No. 15).


.t


IN THE WINDWARD ISLANDS
AND LEEWARD ISLANDS COURT
OF APPEAL.

(SAINT VINCENT CIRCUIT).
(Civil Jurisdiction)
A.D.. 1952.


NOTICE is hereby given that the sitting
t of the Windward Islands and Leeward
Islands Court of Appeal fixed by the
t Honourable The Chief Justice for hear-
Sing of thbatndermentionediAppeal at the
Court House in Kingstown, on Thurs-
day the ld day of April, 1952, has been
* postpere'd to Tuesday the 22nd day of
I April, 1952, at 10.00 in the forenoon
No. 1/1952
In the matter of the Estate of
HENRY LANGLIE WILMOT
HAYWARD, deceased
AND
In the matter of the trusts of the
Will of the said HENRY LANGLIE
WILMOT HAYWARD, deceased,


Between
The Attorney-General of
the Windward Islands


Appellant


and
WILLIAM HORATIO
BOARDMAN and WILMOT
HENRY HADAWAY Respondents.

D. ELSON WEEKS,
Acting Registrar Supreme
Court.

Registrar's Office,
Kingsttown
21st February, 1952.



CONTROL NOTICES.

FERTILIZER REQUIREMENTS
1952/53.

It is hereby noiifi,.d that Nitrogenous
Fertilizers includingg Sulphate of
Ammonia) will continue to be subject
to allocation mnd programming, and in
tde circumstances applications for re-
quirements in Icng tons in respect of
thl fertilizer year July 1952 to June
1.)53 must be isubmitted to the Control-
ler of Supplies not later than .Monday,
24th llarch, 1952.
2. When sninuittine, figure of require-
nritis the following information must
b) given :-


71


WORLD OPEN GENERAL LICENCE
IN RESPECT OF CERTAIN
COMMODITIES.

With reference to the World Open
General Licence issued in pursuant to
Secton 5 of the Imports and Exports
Control Regulations, 1939, dated the 20th
day of October, 1951, the Schedule is
hereby amended by deleting all the
items therein with the exception of the
following:
1. Dried, smoked and pickled fish
(excluding salted fish).
2. Onions
3. Potatoes
Dated this 29th day of February,
1952.

A. V. SPROTT,
Controller of Supplies.

CONTROL DEPARTMENT,
ST. VINCENT, B.W.I,,

(N.B. The effect of the above Notice is
that the only items now permitted to be im-
ported under World Open General Licence
are Dried, smoked and pickled fish (excluding
salted fish). Onions and Potatoes, and no
licence will be necessary for Lhe importation
into the Colony of these commodities from
any source.)


I -----~ceI------- --- I~
PRINTED BY THE GOVERNMENT PRINTER, AT THE GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE,
KINGSTOWN, ST. VINCENT.
[ Price 24 cents. ]

I~LI(~ CII C r q


~2" '3


"


S70


(a) Minimum requirements of Nitro-
genous Fertilizers
(b) Preferred Country of Origin
(c) Importers or Agents
(d) Preferred times of delivery.
25th February, 1952.
(B. 10/1947).




EXPORTATION OF LIVESTOCK.

As from Saturday the 1st day of
March, 1952, and until further notice,
the exportation of Pigs, Goats, Sheep
and Fowls will be by Licence, subject
to the following conditions:-
No Pig under 101 lbs.
No Goat under 30 lbs.'
No Sheep under 40 lbs.
No Fowl under 3 lbs.
will be permitted to be exported.
2. Applicants for such licence will be
requested to sign a Declaration that the
animals conform to the condition with
respect to the weights stated above.
Dated this 1st day of March, 1952.







f\ 41

SAINT VINCE P

STATUTORY RULES AN DEg

1952, No. 12.


PUBLIC LOTTERIES ORDER.


(Gazetted 4th March, 1952);


1. Short title. This Order may be cited as the Public Lotteries Order,
1952.

2. Amendment of Schedule to Public Lotteries Ordinance, 1941.
The Schedule to the Public Lotteries ordinance (No. 12 of 1941) is hereby amended
by the addition thereto of the following :-
"On every application for permission to play the game of bingo 6/S"


Made by the Governor in Council under section 10 (3) of the Public Lotteries
Ordinance (No. 12 of 1941) this 11th day of January, 1952.
KATHLEEN GIBBS,
Acting Clerk of Executive Council.


Approved by the Legislative Council under section 10 of the aforesaid
Ordinance this 29th day of February 1952.
A. L, SAMUEL,
Acting Clerk of Legislative Council
(J. 36/1944).


E [ Price 4 cents. ]


1952.


PRINTED BY THE GOVERNMENT PRINTER AT THE GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE,
KINGSTOWN, ST. VINCENT.








SAINT VINCEN 7

STATUTORY RULES AN RDERS,

1952, No. 13. "

MOTOR VEHICLES AND ROAD TRAFFIC MENT)

REGULATIONS.

(Gazetted 4th March, 1952).

1. Short title. These Regulations may tl cited as the Motor Vehicles and
Road Traffic (Arr endment) Regulations, 1952, and shall be read as one with the
Motor Vehicles and Road Traffic Regulations, 1940, made by the Governor in
Council on the 9th December, 1940, (hereinafter referred to as the principal
Regulations) and all amendments thereto.

2. Replacement of Third Schedule to principal Regulations.
The Third Schedule to the principal Regulations as replaced by the Motor Vehicles
and Road Traffic (Amendment) Regulations, 1943, (S. R. & 0. 1943, No. 42) is
hereby revoked and replaced as follows :-

THIRD SCHEDULE. Regulation 41.

PART I.
Fares by distance. From 6 a.m. to midnight.
Minimum charge (1 mile or less) ...... ...... ...... 36 cents
For each mile or part thereof beyond one mile ...... 30 cents
For waiting ...... ...... ...... ...... ...... ...... a fee not exceeding 240
for every half hour
after the first half hour,
as may be agreed upon.
The above rates shall apply-
(a) in respect of the Windward District as far as the Langley Park
Bridge, and in respect to the Leeward District as far as the
Northern exit of the Town of Layou : Provided that beyond these
two aforesaid points a flat rate of 34 cents per mile shall be
charged.
(b) to the whole distance travelled by a hired car from its garage to
the point of destination of the hirer and back to the garage :
Provided always that if a passenger is collected on the return
journey, an amount equivalent to the amount payable for the
journey from the point at which such passenger is collected back
to the garage shall be refunded to the original hirer.







PART II.
Fares by time. From 6 a.m. to midnight.
In lieu of the above, fares by distance the
following fare may be charged by time :-
For every half hour or part thereof ...... ...... $2-25
All charges in Part I and Part II of this Schedule may be increased by
25% in every case of hiring between midnight and 6 a.m.

3. Revocation. The following Regulations are hereby revoked :-
(a) The Motor Vehicles and Road Traffic (Amendment) Regulations, 1943,
(S.R. & 0. 1943, No. 42) ;
(b) The Motor Vehicles and Road Traffic (Amendment) Regulations, 1943
(S. R. & 0. 1943, No. 90);
(c) The Motor Vehicles and Road Traffic (Amendment) Regulations, 1945,
(S.R. & 0. 1945, No. 8) ;
(d) The Motor Vehicles and Road Traffic (Amendment) Regulations, 1947,
(S. R. & 0. 1947, No. 15).

Made Dy the Govern.:" mn Council under section 73 o- the Motor Vehicles and
Road Traffic Ordinance, J94J (No. 20 oi 1940) this 22nd day of February, 1952.

K .THLEEN GIBBS,
Acting Clerk of Executive Council.
(J 15/43). ,


PRINTED BY THE GOVERNMENT PRINTER AT THE GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFICZ,
KINGSTOWN, ST. VINCENT.


[ Price 8 cents. I


1952.







SAINT VINC Q

STATUTORY RULE O

1952, N A

PRICES CONTROL (AME NT NO. 7) ENTICE.

(Gazetted 4th Ma 5).

1. Short title. This Notice should be c- the Prices Control
(Amendment No. 7) Notice.

2. Amendment. The First Schedule Part A to the Prices Control Order
(S.R. & O. No. 25) is hereby further amended by addition to the list of all the
words, figures and symbols occurring in the columns opposite the article : "Fish
-Fresh,"
FIRST SCHEDULE-PART A.


Article.


Fish-Fresh-
1st Grade-
Black Jack, Salmon,
Amba Covalie,
Grouper, Dolphin,
King Fish, Green
Back Covalie

2nd Grade.
Yellow Tails, Red
Fish, Mackerel,
Rentor, Sod

3rd Grade.
Other Fish includ-
ing Barracouta,
Ocean Gar, Butter
Fish, Hinds, Bonito,
Gar, Horse Eye
Covalie, and other
Rock Fishes


Maximum Wholesale Price

Area AI" Area "All"
per lb. prr 1b.



22c. 24c.


20c.






16c.


Maximum Retail Price.


Area "Al'
per lb.



2(ic.





24c.






18c.


Area "All."
per lb.



28c.





26c.






20c.


[P. T. 0.]


[P. T. O.]








A article. .11a.riinm ui hor .' e I1' ice. Jaxim um Retail Price.

AretuAl" Ar, "All 'a 'A"' Area- All".
Ungraded. per lb. per lb. per lb. per lb.
Large Jacks, Skip 12c. 14. 1. 16
Jacks, Whitening l 1 16

Large Dodger, Blue
Robin, Anchovy.
Ballahoo, Small 6c. 8c. 8c. 10c.
Jacks (6" & under)
Small Dodger

Spsayts ..-. 2c. 3c. 3c. 4c.

3. Amendment. The prices set out hereunder are the Maximum prices
for which the articles enumerated may be sold in the Colony and the First Schedule
Part B to the Prices Control Order 1947 (S.R. & 0. No. 25) is hereby amended by
deleting all the words, figures and symbols occurring in the columns opposite the
articles : "Biscuits Unsweetened-T/dad," "Margarine-U.K.," Herrings-
Pickled," Cornmeal," and substituting therefore the following:

FIRST SCHDULE--PART B.


Article.


Biscuits Unsweetened-
(Trinidad)
Margarine U. K.





Herrings-Pickled
Tropic Herring
Cornmeal


Maximum Wholesale Price



$6.75 per drum of 26 lbs.
. $47.04 per case
S$2.36 per 5 lb. tin


$50.42 per case
12.62 per 28 lb. tin
S$48.40 per case


$33.04 per hil. of 200 lbs.
$34.46per brl. of 200 lbs.
$13.16 uer bag of 98 lbs.


Maximum Retail Price.


" Area A''

31c. p"r lb.

51c. per lb.
5Jc. per lb.

$1.01) per lb.

20c. ],e.' lb.
21c. per lb.
16c. per lb.


Area B"

32c. per lb.

52c. per lb.
52c. per lb.

$1.10 per lb.

21c. per lb.
22c. per lb.
L7c. per lb.


Area C."

33c. per lb.

53c. per lb.
53c. per lb.

$1.11 per lb.

22c. per lb.
23c. per lb.
18c. per lb.


t







Area "Al ". The town of Calliaqua, Arnos Vale, and the entire Leeward
ooast, the Grenadines and within one mile of the boundaries thereof.
Area "All ". Beyond the limits described in Area "Al and including the
town of Kingstown.
Area A" means the town of Kingstown and within one mile thereof.
Area B means all other places throughout the Colony other than those
mentioned in Areas "A" nnd "C ".
Area C means all the villages of Overland, Sandy Bay, Owia, Fancy, Windsor
Forest and the St. Vincent Grenadines.

Made by the Competent Authority under section 30 of the Prices Control
Order 1947 (S.R. & O. No. 25) this 1st day of March, 1952.

A. V. SPROTT,
(J. 5/1951). Controller of Supplies.

PRINTED BY THE GOVERNMENT PRINTER, AT THE GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE,
KINGSTOWN, ST. VINCENT.
[ Price 12 cents. 1
1952.







MINUTES OF A MEETING OF THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL OF ST. VINCENT
HELD IN THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL CHAMBER ON THURSDAY
6TH DECEMBER, 1951 AT 10.00 A.M.


PRESENT :
His Honour W. F. CouTTs, M.B.E., Administrator, Chairman,


The Honourable
"
"1 "
"
"
"
Vf "
"
If If
" "
"? "
"
?" "


P. CECIL LEWIS, Crown Attorney,
V. D. ARCHER, Colonial Treasurer,
W. A. HADLEY, First Nominated Member,
E. A. C. HUGHES, Second Nominated Member,
J. A. BAYNES, Member for St. George,
R. E. BAYNES, Member for Kingstown,
G.. CHARLES, Member for Central Windward,
A. C. CYRUS, Third Nominated Member,
E. T. JOSHUA, Member for North Windward,
E. B. MORGAN, Member for South Windward,
S. E. SLATER, Member for North Leeward,
C. L. TANNIS, Member for the Grenadines,
H. F. YOUNG, Member for South Leeward.


1. PRAYERS.

The meeting was opened with prayer.

2. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES.
The minutes of the meeting held on the 1st November, 1951, were taken as
read and were confirmed after an amendment which was proposed by the
Honourable W. A. Hadley had been made at page 6, line 8, the word "health"
being replaced by the word "heart ".

3. ANNOUNCEMENTS.
There were no announcements.

4. NOTICES OF MOTIONS.

Member for Kingstown : Mr. President, Honourable Members of Council, I
beg to give notice that I will move the following motions at a subsequent meeting
of Council.
1. Whereas a difficult problem in securing the services of Medical
Practitioners now exists in the colony, and is greatly felt.
And whereas all or several of our Scholarship winners when they are
qualified, have failed to serve the Tax-payers who have provided the
necessary funds for their education.
BE IT RkSOLVED that Government make the necessary provision to insert
4 clause, necessitating all students or scholarship winners to return and
serve this colony for a period of at least five (5) years.


*I.:- ^


I -








AND BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that this stipulated clause should be agreed
to by the student before embarking upon such a course for which Tax-payers
have provided.
AND BE IT STILL FURTHER RESOLVED that a bond or guarantee should be
secured by the student or students before their departure from the colony.

2. Whereas it has been provided by General Orders of this colony, giving
the Administration discretionary powers to make loans from the colony's
funds to Civil Servants for the purpose of providing means of transportation,
in order to execute their duties.
And Whereas, due to the ever-increasing cost of such machines used for
transportation, the financial burden on the colony's limited sources of
Revenue can no longer be carried.
BE IT RESOLVED that the Administration discontinue making such loans,
until such time when financial position of the colony has improved.

3. Whereas an Appointments Board set up by the Administration of this
colony appears to be improperly constituted according to the Civil Service
list.
And Whereas such appointments made by this Board did not seem to
meet the approval of the majority of people in this colony.
B' IT RESOLVED that this Appointments Board be dissolved, and be
,-:ploced by another Board, under the name of The Appointments and
1'jomotion Board, and comprise the following Personnel:-
The Colonial Treasurer.
Two members elected by and from The Civil Service Association.
One Elected Member of The Executive Council.
The Government Secretary.

4. Whereas a committee set up by the Administration of this colony for the
Iurpose of selecting candidates for Scholarship awards, appears to be
i- properly constituted.
And whereas such Scholarship awards did not seem to serve the purpose
(4f improving the standards of the various branches of service within this
colony.
BE IT THEREFORE RESOLVED that this Scholarship Committee be dissolved
and be replaced by a new committee, comprising the following personnel:-
The Hon'ble Crown Attorney.-Chairman
The Education Officer.
One member elected from the Civil Service Association.
One Elected Member of the Executive Council.
The Government Secretary or Administrator.

5. Whereas it is very apparent that British Council Scholarships and others
given for improving the standard of various branches of Service within this
colony, have not served the purposes for which they were intended.
And whereas the persons to whom such Scholarships have been awarded,
have in the majority of cases sought employment out of this colony and are
employed.







And whereas Tax-payers of this colony have continued the payment of
salaries during such period of studies of the persons to whom such
Scholarships were given.
BE IT RESOLVED that an agreement be entered into between such persons
to whom Scholarship awards have been made and Government, that in the
event of failure to return to this colony, the sum paid for salaries during
their course of studies be immediately refunded.

6. Whereas Government is at present holding properties and lands situate
at both Edinboro and Cane Garden.
And Whereas such properties and lands are at present used for the
purpose of renting to Civil Servants at a rental value controlled by Colonial
Regulation, and for planting potatoes.
And Whereas such rents derived therefrom are uneconomic, and
comparatively less than the actual amount for insurance of the said
buildings.
And whereas children of School age throughout this colony are rapidly
increasing from year to year.
And whereas educational facilities fall short of the standard desired by
civilised communities in so far as our primary education is concerned in this
colony.
BE IT RESOLVED that Government make the necessary arrangements for
disposing of the Edinboro and Cane Garden properties and lands for the
purpose of making provision for two primary schools.

7. Whereas the Public Lottery Ordinance No. 12 of 1941 allows Lotteries to
be run by (1) Race Clubs (2) Football and other properly constituted Sport
Clubs and (3) by any Association for charitable purposes, with the approval
of the Legislative Council.
And whereas there exist at the present time quite a number of poor and
unfortunate people in the town of Kingstown, who are homeless and are
forced to sleep in public Latrines and under galleries etc.
BE IT THEREFORE RESOLVED that the approval of the Secretary of State for
the Colonies be sought in order to permit the operation of a state Lottery
for the purpose of finding homes for these and other unfortunate people
who could only afford to pay an amount for rent quite within their means.

Member for North Leeward-Your Honour, gentlemen of this House, I give
notice that I will move the following motion at a subsequent meeting of Council.
Whereas a condition of hardship exists in Barrouallie due to lack of
Agricultural Lands.
And Whereas Government is holding that portion or several acres of
Land known as the Reversion Estate and situate on the outskirts of
Barrouallie.
BE IT RESOLVED that Government make the necessary arrangements to
sell by free-hold the said portion of Land known an .the Reversion Estate, in
five (6) td ten (10) acre blocks to the people of Barrouallie and othei
surrounding districts.







Member for St. George: Mr. President, Honourable Members of Council, I
give notice that I will move the following motions at a subsequent meeting of
Council :-
1. Whereas Agricultural Lands now sold at the present time in this Colony
vary from 100. -. to 600. -. per acre.
And whereas such lands sold at these prices seek to wreak havoc on the
Economic structure of this Colony, and further seek to rob Peasant
Proprietors of the opportunity of furthering the social and educational
standards of their families.
BE IT RESOLVED that Government make legislation to place a ceiling
price of $380.00 on Agricultural Lands sold by the acre-10 cents per square
foot when sold by the lot and where Macadamised roads are prepared, and 4
cents per square foot where roads other than Macadamised are prepared.

2. Whereas the Fountain School has become over-crowded which has been
so in nearly all the schools in this Colony.
And whereas over-crowding has caused the Teachers to lose control on
the children's guidance and protection, and they are daily in constant danger
by vehicles on the highway.
And whereas it has become necessary to use the Belair Health Centre
which is now empty and unoccupied.
BE IT RESOLVED that the above mentioned Belair Health Centre be used
as a Government School as from January 1st. 1952.

3. Whereas it has become expedient to provide positions for numerous
Bread-winners which owing to our limited means of placing such persons in
position in the Civil Service and other Departments of Government cannot be
normally accomplished.
And whereas married women whose husbands are already earning a wage
should give place to others who are not fortunate to have an earning
provided.
BE IT RESOLVED that married women be exempted from employment in
the Civil Service and may only be employed in the case of an acting
appointment.

Member for the Grenadines : Mr. President, Honourable Members of Council,
I beg to give notice of the following motion :-
Whereas Passenger Boat Ordinance Chapter 201 Section 8 was amended
by Section 3 (8) Ordinance 25-1946.
BE IT RESOLVED that this Council further amend Section 3 (8) Ordinance
25-1946 to read as follows :
That the maximum number of adult persons that a passenger boat shall
be so certified as suited to carry shall be in the discretion of the Port Officer,
but shall in no case exceed orn adult person for every ton gross registered of
the Boat, Canoe, Ship or Vessel, provided that the same is provided with all
necessary life saving appliances when the same shall be carrying passengers
to or from the colony to or from any place without the same, except to
Carriacou.







5. PnTITIMoS.
There were no petitions.

6. PAPERS.
Honourable Crown Attorney : Your Honour, Honourable Members of Council,
I have the honour to lay the following papers on the table :-
Council Paper No. 65 of 1951.-Minutes of Meeting of Finance Committee held on
the 28th August, 1951.
Council Paper No. 66 of 1951.--Minutes of Meeting of Finance Committee held on
the 3rd November, 1951.
Council Paper No. 67 of 1951.-The Post Office (Amendment No. 6) Regulations,
1951.
Council Paper No. 68 of 1951.-The Post Office (Amendment No. 7) Regulations,
1951.
Council paper No. 69 of 1951.-Report on Medical and Sanitary Department, 1950.
Council Paper No. 70 of 1951.-Electricity Supply & Refrigeration (Amendment)
Regulations, 1951.
Council Paper No. 71 of 1951.-The Prison (Amendment) Rules, 1951.

7. NOTICES OF QUESTIONS.
Member for Kingstown: Your Honour, Honourable Membeis of Council, I
would like to give notice that I will ask the following questions at a subsequent
meeting of Council.
1. Would Government please state how soon they hope to start the
erection of the Market Buildings for which a loan has already been
secured?
2. Would Government please state the various crops and respective
amounts produced and sold by the Land Settlement Board over the period
of years of its tenancy, as well as the respective value of each crop annually?
3. Would Government please state whether Mr. George Barker, the
Crown Surveyor of this Colony, who has recently left for the United
Kingdom, has been given a British Council Scholarship or any other
offered to these colonies?
4. Would Government please state whether Tax-payers of this colony
would be paying the salary of Mr. Barker during the course of his studies
in England?
5. Would Government please state whether arrangements have been
made or an agreement entered into to secure the services of Mr. Barker on
completion of his studies for a specified period of time, if the foregoing
question is in the affirmative?

Member for South Windward: Mr. President, Honourable Members of
Council, I give notice that I will ask the following questions at a subsequent meeting
of Council :-
1. Is Government aware of the fact that the Stubbs Government School
recreation grounds have been cultivated in cotton, thus debarring the
children of their recreation?







If the answer is in the affirmative will Government state what was the
reason for allowing the said grounds to be cultivated?
If in the negative will Government take immediate steps to see that
the grounds are given to the children for recreation?
2. Is Government aware of the fact that the land bought at Richland
Park for the erection of a School building has been cultivated for years
while the children of the area have no recreation grounds, thus causing
the children to loiter in the Government bye-ways?
If the answer is in the affirmative will Government state the reason for
allowing the said land to be cultivated?
If Government is not aware, will immediate steps be taken in remedying
this state of affairs which now exists, and the said land to be given to the
children for recreation, pending the erection of a School building?

Honourable Member for North Windward: Mr. President, Honourable
Members of this Honourable House, I give notice that I will ask the following
question :-

Is Government aware of the fact that the children of New Sandy Bay
Village are exposed to great dangers in going over the mountains to the
isolated and abandoned village of Old Sandy Bay?
If the answer is in th- affirmative will Government state when it
intends to provide educational facilities at the new Sandy Bay Village?
If in the negative will Government take the necessary steps towards
the erection of a school at 'New Sandy Bay?

Member for South Leeward : Mr. President, Honourable Members of Council,
I give notice of the following questions :-
1. In view of the fact that the Board of Management of the Government
Cotton Ginnery as at present constituted does not provide for direct
representation of peasants, will Government consider the re-constitution of
the Board to allow for such representation?
2. In view of the fact that the people of the Layou district are unable as
in the past to manufacture their Arrowroot at the Rutland Vale Factory,
will Government allow the manufacture of their Arrowroot at the Wallilabou
Factory, and in view of the added transportation cost this will entail will
Government consider the manufacture at cost?

8. QUESTIONS.
There were no questions.

9. MOTIONs.
President: I now call on the Honourable Colonial Treasurer to move the
motion standing in his name.

Honourable Colonial Treasurer: Mr. President, Honourable Members of Council,
I beg leave to move that this Council approve the Export Duties (Amendmerit
No. 2) Order, 1951, made by the Governor in Council under section 3 of the Export
Duties Ordinance, 1933, (No. 12 of 1933) on the 9th day of November, 1951.







Honourable Members of Council are aware of the revision of the export duty
which is at present levied on pigs, and which was regarded as excessive. The duty
has been reduced to $1.50 per head.
Honourable Crown Attorney : I beg to second the motion
There was no debate on the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
President: I now call upon the Honourable Member for North Windward to
move the first motion standing in his name.
Honourable Member for North Windward: Mr. President, Honourable
Members of this Honourable House I beg to move the following motion :-
1. WHEREAS by the votes of the electorate under adult suffrage the
people of the Colony of Saint Vincent as in duty bound voted for a candidate
or candidates of their choice.
BE IT RESOLVED that the said people of the said Colony of Saint Vincent In
any or all constituencies shall have the right to the recall of any member
who fails to discharge his obligations as an elected representative of the
people
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that this failure shall be determined by petition
of the electorate of the particular constituency, and receives the assent of
not less than two-thirds of the elected members on the Legislative Council.

Mr. President, Honourable Members of this Honourable House, we have
reasons and records in this Colony to prove, that under the old system of
Government, many members could have absented themselves without anything
being done about it. Under this new Dispensation, I think it is necessary to have
something that will not give elected members the chance of having to walk in that
road. Therefore it is obvious that you can see the reason for this motion. It is a
motion simply moved in order to have the elected representatives, who have been
elected under the present system of adult suffrage to represent every class, to do
their business in a manner that they will not stray from their duties. It is clear
that when these lapses occur the business of Government will be handicapped to a
considerable extent. Nevertheless, it is but right that since the people of our
country should have the right to vote under democracy, they should also have the
right to recall a representative, provided that such a motion is accepted in this
Council. It is simply a motion to ensure that the representatives of the people
should do their bidding. We have had a clear example even before the old
Council was prorogued. An Honourable Member from the Grenadines was
excused from the house and nobody took any notice of it.
I think that the explanation given will lead Honourable Members to see the
direct use for such a motion especially under the present system of adult suflfage.
It gives the electorates in the particular constituency concerned the right to
petition to the Council. But this Council still has the power to decide whether
after such a petition reaches this house, two-thirds of the house will say whether
he is in a position to serve.
Honourable Member for Central Windward: Mr. President, Honourable
Members of Council, I rise to second this motion. As far as the resolution or
motion goes, I would like to say that it is not only in St. Vincent that this motion
was proposed to be moved. I can remember throughout the British Caribbean,







vartous.eaders had planned this in order to be able to secure better representation
for the people. Since we the people of St. Vincent have taken over a full-fledged
Government, we are in a position to set up our first corner stone. I do believe that
such a motion will be of great help to St. Vincent, and that the only members who
will be afraid to support it, are those members who have fears in their minds; but
I will support it wholeheartedly without fear.
Second Nominated Member : Mr. President, Honourable Members of Council,
perhaps before we debate this motion, it would be helpful if I were to ask the
Honourable mover of the motion for an explanation as to what is meant by
"electorate ". Whether it is 3 or 4 or 6 of the electorate-because, for all we
know, the. petition may be signed by a few persons, and although I do not think
that the Honourable Member intends that a petition should be signed by 3 or 4
people, before the motion is actually debated, I should like to know the number of
members of the electorate he would require to sign such a petition.
Honourable Member for North Windward: Mr. President, Honourable
Members of Council, I stated clearly that it and when it becomes expedient or
necessary for such a petition to be made by the electorate, that a petition of that
constituency be sent to the Council. A petition does not mean 1 or 9 or 10 persons
-it means a majority. You must understand, that when that petition comes to
this -onourable House, you will have the right to debate, to ensure that all
members are satisfied that the petition is in order.
Second 'Nominated Member: Mr. President, Honourable Members, the
Honourable Member appears to think that motions are brought for a specific
purpose only. Unfortunately, they sometimes involve certain intricacies which
mightAhave been overlooked by the mover of the motion at the time. This motion
would involve a change in the constitution, which can only be given by the
Governor in Council; we certainly have no right to amend the constitution. As I
see it however, this motion means that any time a petition from a constituency
can be organised against a member, the elected element have the right to decide
Whether that member is a fit and proper person to continue in office. At present
all the-elected members of this Council are alleged to belong to the same party.
Let uslook at another possible aspect of the matter. Suppose at any future time
there are '6 members of one party and 2 members of another among the eight
eleltedtmembers, does that mean that the 6 can organise and remove the 2 at
any time? It does seem to me to be one of the dangers of the motion that a
member elected by secret ballot will be liable to removal by means of a process
wlaich4s notsubject to the normal safeguards attendant on an election. It does
not-refdly concern my position, because I see it is confined to the elected element
of this councill only. We are told that the motion seeks to prevent absenteeism.
This may be true, but there might also be other more serious effects which might
nothave.-been intended by the Honourable Mover of the motion. In considering a
motion, I think one has to take all its aspects into account, inasmuch as there
may be many consequences involved other than those originally intended. For
b ~eerreasons I cannot support the motion.
President: Honourable Members of Council, it must also be remembered
that any Honourable Member who does not attend 3 consecutive meetings, forfeits
his seat.
Honourable Member for Kingstown: Mr. President, Honourable Members of
eo'ncol, I see no harm in the motion being put forward by my Honourable
,igi t 11tike it that when the people elected members they had a certain







amount of confidence in these members. This motion seeks to serve as a
guarantee that members will carry out the duties that are expected of them.
Therefore, if any member feels that he will not destroy the confidence reposed in
him, he should have no objection whatever to such a motion.
Honourable Member for South Leeward : Mr. President, Honourable Members
of Council, this particular motion moved by the Honourable Member fo"r icrth
Windward, seconded by the Honourable Member for Central Windward, as far as
I see it, has some very fine points although it may be a good motion. But no one
has any right to tell me when I am wrong in serving my people. You mean to tell
me that you are going to get them to sign a petition after telling them that I am
not serving them properly; and that same petition is brought before you? I do
not agree with that at all. Some of our people are still ignorant, and there may
be 2 persons for all you know, who may have been accused for not serving their
people, when in truth and in fact they did serve them. Then, the other six
persons will be able to consider such a petition after you got them to come up with
it. I do not agree with that, and I am saying that I feel I have no confidence in
any one around this table to pass any judgement on any of us.
Honourable Member for South Windward: Mr. President, Honourable
Members of Council, in reference to the foregoing speaker I will like to say this :-
In regard to the example raised of 2 of one and 6 of another, there may be 2 of one
and 6 of another it is true; alright, that may be so-but the fact remains that the
2 might not be doing their duties. Therefore, it is quite obvious that the 6 will
have to decide whether or not they are carrying out the affairs of the people. You
can prevent any of the 6 or the 2 from going into the particular constituency to
spoil the minds of the electorates. Therefore no one should have any fear in
voting in favour of such a motion. I think, in truth and in fact, that this is a
stepping stone where, primarily, anyone who is uncertain about his representative
carrying out his duty, will have the assurance that he will not stray.
Honourable Member for St. George : Mr. President, Honourable Members, I
must need say that the actual matter presented by my colleague seems to be
misunderstood. While it does mean that he could be thrown out by a two-thirds
majority, that can only be done when a petition actually was brought forward by
his constituency. That can only be the actual advice of the people who placed
him there. In all deliberations, I think it would be requisite that the majority of
any constituency have the right to state in writing their views when discussing
with the representative for the electorate. On those grounds, I think that thi.
motion is one that demands of the elected members a certain amount of confidence
knowing that it is not only his aim to serve his people, but that he has served then
with honesty. Because of that, I am actually stating that such a motion deserves
support since it would be the means of supporting the people who elected you.
Third Nominated Member : Mr. President, Honourable Members, I would like
to say that when confidence was reposed in the members, that was done by the
people, and those people expect to be served by the members for 3 years. I take it
that if a member fails to give good service, he will be deprived of serving a second
term.
His Honour also pointed out that if any member absent himself from 3
consecutive meetings provision is made for the-forfeiture of such a member's seat.
Accordingly, I see no use for such a motion.
Honourable Member for North. Windward: Your Honour, Honourable
Members of this Honourable House, I rise to put in summary form, the various







views and opinions as expressed on this motion. I have heard His Honour read
from Rule.s and Regulations of this Council, stating in words true and plain that
there is provision for asking any Honourable Member to resign if he fails to
attend 3 consecutive meetings of this Council. I have also heard the Third
Nominated Member say that this motion moved by me and seconded by the
Honourable Member for Central Windward, is not necessary. .But may I inform
the Honourable Member that such rules existed here long ago, and we have
records to show that there was an Honourable Member who absented himself for
more than three occasions and nothing was done about it. The reason why this
motion was brought is now clearly pointed out, and if any member of this Council
has full confidence that he will serve the people of his Country whole-heartedly he
should even pass a motion twice as serious. But it would appear there is something
wrong. I have heard expressions of fears and suspicions by the Honourable
Member for South Leeward. But may I inform the Honourable Gentleman, that
it should be in his place, first of all to support such a motion in the most
complementary terms, since the people placed him here with an overwhelming
majority of votes-even though he claimed they were 'illiterates'. Let me tell the
Honourable Member that that same 'illiteracy', that same ignorance of the people
brought him around this table as an Honourable Member. Therefore I think the
Honourable Member should be proud to show the people that he has no fear; for
it is the people who have seen it fit to put him here to represent them.
The motion was then put to the vote.

Result of the voting.
For Against
6 6
The President gave his casting vote against the motion.
President: Honourable Members of Council, before the other motion is
moved, I would like to bring Honourable Members' attention to Rules 11 and 12 of
the Letters Patent which read as follows :-
Appointment 11. The Governor may constitute and appoint in Our name
of officers. and on Our behalf all such Judges and other officers as may be
hlwfully constituted or appointed by Us, all of whom, unless
otherwise provided by law, shall hold their offices during Our
pleasure.

Discipline. 12. Subject to the provisions of any law or regulations for
the time being in force and to such Instructions as may from
time to time be given to him by Us through a Secretary of State,
thd Governor may, for cause shown to his satisfaction, dismiss or
suspend from the exercise of his office any person holding any
office under the Government of the Windward Islands or of any
one of the Islands, or may take such other disciplinary action as
may seem to him desirable.
Honourable Member for North Windward: Mr. President, Honourable
Members of this Honourable House, I beg to move the following motion :-
2. WHEREAS Clearmont Andrews, ex-prison Warder was dismissed on the
11th July 1951 from his position as Warder-Baker of the Prison InMPtiutlon







without a hearing in his own defence and without due consideration given
to his case.
AND WHEREAS the facts in his defence were ignored
AND WHEREAS in the interest of Justice every citizen has the right to a
fair hearing in matters which affect his vital welfare and livelihood.
BE IT RESOLVED that this Council agrees to the setting up of a three-man
commission to enquire into the case of the said Clearmont Andrews with the
view of doing Justice and giving consideration of his 8 years service.

Mr. President, Honourable Members of this Honourable House, it would
appear that the motion is misunderstood. The motion calls merely for an enquiry
into this matter from the fact that there is tangible evidence that Andrews was
said to be dismissed for not making proper bread. It happened that Andrews was
in a Government Department, but had not even the same consideration as a baker
outside of Government, such as the Popular Bakery or the Sanitary Bakery. It
happened that if certain statements and appeals were made, and evidence had
been taken, then the rights of a free court would have been sought. Also if
Andrews had anyone to direct him in his case, these facts and submissions would
have been heard. I want the whole public to see that the matter was not heard,
so that the people will all hear and know that justice was not done. From the
facts and records of the case, it is said that Andrews was dismissed for making bad
bread and has thereby expensed the Government. I am, however, satisfied that
no proper hearing was given in this case and this motion is to set up a commission
to investigate Andrews' case with a view to doing justice. So I hope that this
Council shall see it fit to have such a motion carried.
Member for Central Windward: Mr. Chairman, Honourable Colleagues, I
rise to second this motion that was moved by the Honourable Member for North
Windward. I not only second the motion because it is one that is fair and just,
but because I am the one who first set out to investigate this case of Andrews. As
far as I see the motion, it is said that Andrews was dismissed for baking bad bread
-but you have to take into consideration that the oven was bad and under repair.
If the oven is bad, you must expect the bread to be bad; also if a man's belly starts
to hurt him and he has to leave the oven, by the time he gets back, something is
liable to happen. Andrews had 8 hours duty to perform, and it is impossible for
anyone who is in charge of any department to perform 8 hours work to set up the
yeast and bake the bread, in that time. The fact is this, when those people take
any amount of yeast and dash it in the bread, the whole thing had to be spoiled.
The motion as it stands, is to provide for investigation into this case; and I am
saying that the first thing that the officer should have done was to investigate the
matter when it first came up. But you don't mean to tell me that after a man
gives 8 years service, you dismiss him without any consideration whatever. After
8 hard years service, you simply dismiss the man and say it is for baking bad
bread. You want to tell me that that is justice, when he had no hearing in his
case? I am one who do not like to stand by and see wrong at all; therefore, I
strongly support this motion, since I feel too, that if a Commission is set vp, some
kind of consideration may be given in this case.

President : Honourable Members, in view of the statements made in this
latter, I must bring Honourable Members attention to the fact that Andrews was
dismissed because he failed to carry out the orders of his superior.







Member for Kingstown: Mr. President, Honourable Members, although I
m:.ylf have not investigated this matter relating to the dismissal of Andrews, I
alway-; b~ebeve that there are two sides to any case. His Honour, then, has given
us oni' side-he says that Andrews was dismissed for flouting orders. Well, that
may be so; but we have to have the other side of the case. It will be remembered
that the Canadian Trade Commissioner recently visited the islands with regard to
the question of dissatisfaction of a shipment of flour. A meeting was convened,
and at that meeting theie were a number of persons who attended. He was heard
to say that due to the failure of the mills, the flour shipped to these parts did not
give proper results. There were several mills cut off due to the, dissatisfaction-
(His Honour asked the Hon'ble member to keep to the motion).................................Hon'ble
Member continues............................so in regard to the motion, and as Andrews, who I
understand was dismissed for baking bad bread, I feel that the motion should be
carried. It is not a motion asking for his reinstatement. It is just a motion
asking for investigation of the facts surrounding the circumstances which led to
his dismissal, and I see no reason why such investigation cannot be made. I am
strongly in favour of the motion.
Member for St. George : Your Honour, Honourable Members, I rise to support
the matter raised by the Honourable Member for North Windward. I, too, have
not gone in to investigate what has actually happened in the case of Andrews'
dismissal, but I will support the argument. From experience, I know that here in
St. Vincent, baking is done more than 95% by mere chance and experiment. There
is hardly any technical knowledge here with regard to baking; and because of that,
you have to consider every case carefully before you can take such action as to
dismiss a man who is groping in the dark to produce bread to satisfaction. I am
saying that consideration should be given. It is unfair to have a person working
under such conditions of experiments, and when he hears for himself he is to be
thrown out because he has not produced the required standard of bread : as I am
told he is charged for spoiling bread. Some time ago, I was approached by the
Controller, who discussed the complaints of the many bakeries on bad flour. I
told him though he ordered Grade E Flour and, was supplied, yet he didn't get a
Baker's flour, but Winter wheat which is not a Baker's Flour. Baker's Flour is only
determined by the number of loaves to the bag, by practical proof. Perhaps he
wasn't satisfied, so he waited until the Commissioner came down, and the
Commissioner supported my argument. Any firm or company in St. Vincent
that carries baking as part of their business should make it necessary to see that
the Baker is well paid, because no person would like to see bread fall below the
required standard. I feel that Andrews should be given a fair chance.
First Nominated Member : Mr. President, Honourable Members, the motion
says that 'Andrews was dismissed without due consideration', whereas the last
speaker said that Andrews should be given a fair chance ". I would say this,
that Government is the hardest institution from which to sack a man. I have
been connected with Government for many years, and I have seen many cases
come up, and I have never seen a single case which was brought before this
Government that was not given due and careful consideration. These matters
are very seriously considered by Government. Therefore I could not support a
mc;Jon which, in any way intimated that there was any case which had been
brought before Government and was not given due and careful consideration.
Second Nominated Member : Mr. President, Honourable Members of Council
I find myself in a difficult position in having to discuss such a motion, as we are
told by the President that the man was dismissed for flouting orders while on the







other hand the mover and seconder tell us that he was dismissed for baking'bad
bread. I do not see how this Council can expect to debate the case of anyone whk
is dismissed from the service. If every sr.ch case is to be made the subject of a
motion, the suggested remuneration to members of $160.00 per month will have to
be quadrupled as I can envisage our spending all day and all ni,;ht in this
chamber.
Member for South Windward: Mr. President, Honourable Members of
Council, while this question may be a vexed and perplexed one, as far as Mr.
Andrews is concerned, yet it is one that in my opinion should be given due
consideration. I do not see why we, as elected Members of the people, cannot take
the question in hand-no need coming back here. I have heard that the person
in question had been dismissed for baking bad bread. Now, I am hearing that he
had been dismissed for flouting orders. I expected that reply long before it was
said. But it was originally stated that Andrews was dismissed for baking bad
bread. Now you are saying it is for disobeying orders. I hope that everybody will
take due notice of this. Because you will find that on the bread wagon of
Government, probably there must be friends-or, as we call them, godfathers ";
and if a person is not in their favour, he gets kicked out. 'We have heard the
argument that at the time in question, the flour produced was not of the best, and
that alone is evidence that bad bread would have b3en .xpected. I feel that this
motion should be carried. The motion is not to reins niea the person in question,
it is just merely to investigate the matter. Evidence will be given as to why the
person was dismissed. I, for one, am not against it, and I see no reason why it
should not be carried.
Member for the Grenadines : Mr. President, Honourable Members of Council,
as far as I see, this motion states "towards reinstating Andrews in his
employment ". In my opinion, while justice should be given wherever possible, if
we are to consider such a motion carefully, we would see that this motion would
affect our future policy in dealing with similar matters. That is, if we take this
motion in hand and discuss it with a view to finding out whether he should be
reinstated. I think that the matter should have been dealt with outside of the
Council by the members of the Union, and not by members of this Council.
Well, as you have heard, the Honourable Member who seconded the motion
told you that he had gone into this matter of Andrews before, and he has given
you his views on the matter as to why the Prison Warder or Baker was dismissed.
The President told you that he was dismissed for disobeying orders from his
immediate boss, and from the arguments and facts put forward by the other
Honourable Members who supported the motion, it is said that he was dismissed
for baking bad bread. I think that since this matter reached to its final points,
I will support it, but will suggest some amendments, as follows :-
Delete towards reinstating Andrews in his employment ", and substitute
................." and giving". That portion of the motion will then appear as
follows :-
BE IT RESOLVED that this Council agrees to the setting up of a three-
man commission to f acquire int -:: _se of til'n said Clearmont Andrews
with the view of doing just. an. i :g consider -,ion of his 8 years c-rvice".
Member for Kingstown I beg to sece:. 1 'hat.
Member for North Windward: Mr. President, Honourable Members of this
Honourable House, to sum up the points in this motion in clear and simple







la3knuag that all around this table can understand-I have heard the Second
Nominated Member use certain remarks about this motion. He said that such a
motion should not have been brought before this Honourable House. I should like
to inform him that a commission is necessary and is the only means of closing the
door to any further misunderstanding in the matter. His Honour said that
Andrews was dismissed for flouting orders, but that was not said before. It was
said that Andrews was dismissed for baking bad bread. The mere fact that the
statements made are not clear and somewhat conflicting, is sufficient even now, to
show that a commission is extremely necessary. It is clear that this Council
should appoint a commission to investigate the matter, so that when it is placed
in the hands of an impartial commission they will find out what led to Andrews'
dismissal. One side said that Andrews was dismissed for baking bad bread, and
the other side is telling us now that he flouted orders. Which are we to believe?
Personally, I think that a Commission will determine which of these statements is
correct. As far as the communication is concerned, you heard that Andrews was
persistently spoiling the flour by making bad bread. Therefore when we turn
around this table and throw out snares, Honourable Members have the right to
reply, and I am throwing out the hint that if the motion is not put up for a
Commission it will only bring a feeling that justice was not done. As far as I see,
Andrews' case was only heard by one man and I am saying that one man, and only
that one man is not the Government. I rule the point that there were no charges
of repeated flouting, because the man's dismissal emerged on the spoiling of bread;
and at that time if a Government Commission was appointed and made to
investigate the matter, the man would not have been dismissed.
President : Honourable Members, in view of the statements made, I have to
give an explanation in the matter. There are regulations dealing with points of
dismissal. These regulations point out that if a man is dismissed for any matter,
he may appeal to the Administrator. If he is dissatisfied, he may appeal
to His Excellency the Governor, and if he is still dissatisfied he may go further
by appealing to the Secretary of State. To my mind, this man Andrews
has not taken any of these courses. But if you say he has taken one, then that
means that he still has two more courses to take.
The motion as amended, was then put to the vote, and the results were as
follows :-
For the Motion Against the Motion
6 1 -3 abstentions
(Officials did not vote)

President: I now call upon the Honourable Member for St. George to move
the motion standing in his name.
Member for St. George : Mr. President, Honourable Members of Council, I
would like to move the motion standing in my name, with amendments :-
BE IT RESOLVED that this Council agrees to serve, without remuneration.
in the Legislative Council, from 1st January 1952.
On this motion standing in my name, it would appear that it had been a
vexed question and one that, I believe, created a certain amount of argument and
criticisms in this community. But it is my opinion that in any civilised country
or community, the moment you have adult franchise, it can only mean that every
man irrespective of his position in life, once his name is listed on the votes' list,





65

becomes eligible to represent the people. Well, that can only mean this-that we
have had a change in constitution, and that which brings with it this obligation
allowing any man at the age of 21 to represent his people. That has taken the
place of those persons in the past who had income or property; and here in St.
Vincent where property was the only means to become a voter, it follows that only
1/10 of the entire population was represented. On those grounds, I think it was
necessary that when a representative of the people is chosen, he should be given a
stipend to enable that representative to travel freely to his constituency where he
would be able to demand a certain amount of respect in the constituency which he
represented. But gentlemen, St. Vincent is on the threshold of bankruptcy, and
we must seek ways and means of getting out. I was trying to get an outline ot
what St. Vincent is like, and I can only say that it is like getting a one-ton truck
to carry 10 tons. Therefore, in the light of the present financial calamity of St.
Vincent, I think that those of us who have St. Vincent at heart will be glad to
serve around this table for the given period without remuneration, until such time
as this Colony recovers from its financial calamity.
First Nominated Member: Mr. President, Honourable Members of Couneil,
we can see the very serious state of affairs the Colony is in. The Honourable
Member for St. George at the first Legislative Council meeting, moved a terrific
motion; but at the time, he knew nothing about it. Now he has seen the poverty
of St. Vincent, and has also seen how very difficult it is to get money, and that we
had to cut expenses down, he seems so sorry that he comes here today with tears
in his eyes, begging us to take 'nothing'. Well, I think he has done a wonderful
job. He must have St. Vincent at heart. I second the motion.
Member for North Windward: Mr. President, Honourable Members of this
Honourable House, I should like to say a few words on the present motion before
this House. I am satisfied that St. Vincent is in a very bad state at this moment.
I am satisfied that according to the remarks of the First Nominated Member, the
amendments made to the motion seem to express sorrows; because he says only
now we have seen the position we return to propose such a motion. All of that is
quite well-but I still feel that when it comes to stipends, elected members should
have their quota. I do not know how you expect us to go around the Country. It
would seem that Honourable Elected Members would have to get to their
constituency by making a hundred yards like Jessie Owens. On the other hand, I
thought that the motion in question would have assisted in bringing us in common
ratio with the neighboring Colonies-but it seems that by proposing such a
motion we have been charged with a certain amount of insularity. I don't for one
moment understand how we are expected to get around to serve the people when
no transportation is provided. I am satisfied that the motion stands well. But it
was said that Joshua and other Honourable Members sought to get on this
Council to make such motions. Personally, I feel that the standard of those
people who make such remarks is low. If Honourable Members are desirous of
getting to their constituency by walking, it us up to them. But, I cannot see the
possibility.
To talk on the motion, I would say that I am strongly in support that
Honourable Members of the Legislative Council should serve freely. Yes, I am
100% in support of that. But the fact is that the Honourable Member for St.
George withdrew the original motion, through sympathy. I sat here quietly and
listened very carefully to all that was said, and I do agree that this motion, as it
staint now with the amendm"cSts, wll be wsmeLth very gX fr St. VJThst.







But St. Vincent does not belong to Charles, Joshua, or anyone of us here. If we
can all serve freely, yes, it would be a very good thing. All Heads of Departments
--Civil Servants as well-in fact, everybody can serve freely. Then I will be quite
satisfied that we will be all working on one common ground for the general good
of St. Vincent.
Member for South Windward: Mr. President, Honourable Members, as
aforesaid, this is a very vexed and perplexed motion to some, while to others, it
might be a very pleasing one. Really, I am 100% in agreement with the
amendments to the motion, but I am saying in plain and simple tones, that no one
can be able to practise politics without some kind of remuneration. We are under
adult suffrage which is a new constitution. The name applied to our constitution,
-adult suffrage-should give us the impression that when a man reaches the age of
21 years, he is entitled to be elected, no matter what his position might be in the
community. A man may come from Canouan and if he has not got the means to
travel to his constituency, he is debarred of the privilege of going to represent his
people. But because you may find a man who can live well and don't care one
thing about the people, he has all the right. This is what happened in the past
and;you will find that that is why we will always have bad representation if we do
mot stop it. Bad representation will continue, until I don't know when. It is true
that, the Island's deficit account is in a very bad state. As I see it, we have no
money, so we will have to try to work things the best way we can. That is quite
well.and true; but should we not be prepared to give Honourable Members stipends
mow, what will be our position at the next general election? It is plain that the
Colony cannot afford most things at the moment, and while the motion with its
lpesent amendments seems well and pleasing to every rational human being here,
you must try to think of what will become of the people's representative who has
to work-hard for his people. How is he to travel and get around to his constituency
in order to see and satisfy the requirements of the people? All these things will
have to be considered. As this island is faced with a very bad deficit account, I
ttink that consideration should be given in that direction when considering the
amount. I am not in a position to say that the amount to be given should be
$~g00.-it might be less. But I feel that some genuine consideration should be
given in order to satisfy everybody concerned.

Member for Kingstown : Mr. President, Honourable Members of Council, I
kave listened to all the various arguments and I must say that the amendment
putforward by the Honourable Member for St. George is a very fine gesture indeed
and perhaps one which could be reasonably accepted. I must also talk on the
motion' which was amended. Now, in that motion, the sum of $160.00 was
suggested. Now it is amended to 'serve freely'. Well, I am one who always feel
that Members of this Council should have some kind of equipment to permit them
to trt~el and get around to represent ,heir people. Therefore when I take this
fact ib)o consideration, I would not say h.at the sum which my colleague asks for,
was too great if the people are to have represenlatitn in the true sense of the
word. In the past, a fractional part of the people was represented; but today,
this is a. constitution where everybody is being represented. Because of that, I
think that h'Ie sum being asked for is rea. able. I would not say it was too much.
Well, the rxt point, of course, is the fin.,ncial difficulty with which we are faced.
We say the $160.00 is reasonable, but could the Colony afford to pay such a sum?
I would sa at the present time no ". Many of our people may not know the
lt-6 wi' 7 which we are faced, -~at I know that we are in a very sad financial
pygt; and I feel that we should try to resist enterig into great financial







commitments until St. Vincent recovers from the present plight. I feel however,
that the sum asked for could be reduced and that it is highly necessary when I give
consideration to my colleagues. Many of them have to travel great distances to
get in touch with their people. I must also give consideration to that. But
another point is, that Nominated Members should not be paid the same as Elected
Members, as they could be characterized in a separate class on this Council, in
that they represent the views of Government-while the Elected Members
represent the views of the people; because of that, the Nominated Members have
to do things in the normal course of their duties. So in the Legislative Council
they would have very little to attend to. After taking all the facts into account, I
move that Nominated Members be paid $60.00, elected members $90.00 and
Members of the Executive Council $120.00 irrespective of Nominated or Elected.
Third Nominated Member: Mr. President, Honourable Members of Council,
I have perused this book (indicating 'Letters Patent') and I have not seen any
part which makes a Nominated Member inferior to any other member of Council.
Therefore, I am saying that I too, am in perfect agreement with the amendment
and am prepared to serve without remuneration if everybody else is prepared to
do so. But I do not think it is fair that Nominated Members should be placed in
any inferior position; and with that, I say that I object very strongly to the motion
made by the last speaker. I therefore beg to move that all unofficial members
who are not members of Executive Council be paid $90.00 and those who are
members of Executive Council $120.00.
Member for South Leeward : Mr. President, Honourable Members of Council,
I notice that there is a big cheap bluff going on here. But somehow the bluff did
not come off. I am saying that the poker bluff will get us nowhere. One time you
ask for $160.00 and you come now and say you don't want anything at all, when
you know well that you want the money. I think that the mentality is poor-very
poor mentality. I had been listening carefully all the time the bluff was going
around the table to see when it would be called off. No use hiding and saying you
need no money when you know that you well need it. I would say that it should
be one flat pay. I do not think there should be any distinction at all-everybody
should be paid the same. The moment you go and pay these different sums of
$120.00 and $90.00, there will be a rush for that $120.00; and because of that, I feel
it should be one basic pay.
Member for the Grenadines : Mr. President, Honourable Members, the motion
moved by the Honourable Member for St. George, was indeed a figure that should
have been paid to a legislator who is going to put his best into the Council by
giving good representation to the people. Since we have been given a new
constitution and it is likely that members of our Legislature would not ordinarily
be in a very good financial position, I feel that the sum should be adequate. I am
saying that no man, no legislator, is going to come in these times and represent a
body of people, (thus also affecting his own financial position) without some kind
of remuneration. That could be done for a very short time, it may be true, but if a
legislator comes with or without the intention to practise politics, he is not going
to come and work for people for nothing; and before he serves his term he finds
himself in financial difficulty. Since however, we are faced with a very bad
deficit of $250,000, in the light of that, I am saying that Members should be
reasonable in making their decisions-and therefore I am agreeing with the
amendment as moved by the Honourable Member for Kingstown.
Member for North Windward : Mr. President, Honourable Members of this
Honourable House, speaking on this amendment moved by the Honourable







Member for Kingstown, the point of f c. really is that the amount asked for in the
first place has only caused Honourable Members to be the subject of a lot of talk,
all because of a little flimsy piece of Newspaper we have here in this Colony. I
don't see anything wrong with the motion-but as far as the amendment goes, I
always felt that the amount should be between $90 and $120.00.
Member for St. George : Mr. President, Honourable Members of Council, I
have listened to the various discussions on this motion around this table. I have
also listened to the many amendments. All this brought out a clear picture of the
roads that lead to the Legislative Council. I happen to know that some people
feel that Honourable Members only came to the Legislative Council for stipends.
Some have come the honest way to combine brain and brawn for a better St.
Vincent, others have followed the stipend road to look for a living. But I would
say that when I moved such a motion for $160.00, I was aware that such a thing
would have caused criticisms from the press, and the public made capital of it. I
would say that I am a hero and it would require certain elements to curb me. Now
that the various criticisms had been actually brought out, however, it clearly goes
to show that this was not an idea of mine merely because I was determined to
make more demands as representative of St. George, but because I thought that in
the light of the new constitution a certain amount of financial defence would be
needed. Now that the thing has been tabled and has taken various forms and
decisions;, we have discovered that even all the nominated element are of the same
feeling towards the amendmient-that due to our financial position, sacrifices will
have to be made, and must be made; whether it be around this table or in the
Civil S:'rvice. However, I think that the motion as tabled by the 3rd Nominated
Member should actually fit the demands of every representative .
The motion as amended by the 3rd Nominated Member was then put to the
vote, and carried.
Results.
For the motion Against Abstentions
5 8

The Council then adjourned at 12.05 p.m.


RESUMPTION-1.30 P.M.

President: I now call on the Honourable Crown Attorney to move the first
reading of the Stamp (Amendment) Bill.
Honourable Crown Attorney : Mr. President, Honourable Members, I beg to
introduce and have read for the first time the bill shortly entitled the Stamp
(Amendment) Bill. The objects of this Bill are as follows :-
(a) to consolidate the numerous amendments to the Schedule to the
principal Ordinance which have taken place since 1926, and
(b) to convert into dollar currency all amounts expressed in sterling in the
principal Ordinance and in the Schedule thereto.
The opportunity was also taken to make one or two minor amentme*ts to
the Ordinance.







Honourable Colonial Treasurer : I second the motion
Question put and agreed to
Bill read a first time.
Honourable Crown Attorney : Mr. President, Honourable Members, I beg to
introduce and have read a first time the bill shortly entitled the Public Utility
Undertakings and Public Health Services Arbitration Bill. The objects of this Bill
are as follows :-
To provide an arbitration tribunal for the settlement of disputes in Public
Utility Undertakings and in public health hospital and sanitary services.
Honourable Colonial Treasurer : I second the motion
Question put and agreed.to
Bill read a first time.
Honourable Crown Attorney : Mr. President, Honourable Members, I beg to
introduce and have read a. first time the bill shortly entitled the Aid to Pioneer
Industries Bill. The objects of this Bill are as follows :-
To encourage the establishment and development of new industries in the
Colony and to make provision for the granting of certain relief from customs duty
and income tax to persons establishing factories in connection with such industries.
Honourable Colonial Treasurer : I second the Motion
Question put and agreed to
Bill read a first time.
President : I now call on the Honourable Crown Attorney to move the second
reading of the Compensation for Injuries (Amendment) Bill.
Honourable Crown Attorney : Mr. President, Honourable Members of Council,
I beg to move the second reading of the Compensation for Injuries (Amendment)
Bill.
Member for North Windward : Mr. President, Honourable Members cf this
Honourable House, we will like to see the principal Ordinance relating to this bill
before it is given a second reading; and I move that it should not be read a second
time until we study the principal Ordinance.
Member for South Windward : I beg to second the motion.
It was agreed that the bill should not be read a second time.
President : I now call on the Honourable Crown Attorney to move the
second reading of the Immigration (Restriction (Amendment) Bill.
Honourable Crown Attorney : Mr. President, Honourable Members, I beg to
move the second reading of the Immigration (Restriction) (Amendment) Bill.
Honourable Colonial Treasurer : I second the Motion
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time
Honourable Crown Attorney: I move that Council resolve itself into a
Committee of the whole Council to consider the Bill clause by clause.
Honourable Colonial Treasurer : I second the motion
Question puit ahd agreed to.







In Committee.
Clause 2-Section 2 (1) of principal Ordinance amended.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 3-Section 4 (1) of principal Ordinance amended.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 4-Section 7 of principal Ordinance amended.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 5-Section 10 of principal Ordinance amended.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 6-Section 22 (1) of principal Ordinance repealed and replaced.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 1-Short title & enacting clause.
Question put and agreed to.
Honourable Crown Attorney : I beg to move that the Committee rise and the
presiding member report to the Council.
Honourable Colonial Treasurer : I second the motion
Question put and agreed to.

Council resumes.
President: Honourable Members, I have to report that the Immigration
(Restriction) (Amendment) Bill passed through the Committee stage without
amendment.
Honourable Crown Attorney : I beg to move that the President's Report be
adopted.
Honourable Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
.Question put and agreed to.
Honourable Crown Attorney : I beg to move that the bill be read a third time
by title and passed.
Honourable Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read a third time
President : I now call on the Honourable Crown Attorney to move the second
reading of the Trade Unions & Trade Disputes (Amendment) Bill.
Honourable Crown Attorney : Mr. President, Honourable Members, I beg to
move the second leading of The Trade Unions & Trade Disputes (Amendment)
Bill.
Honourable Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Honourable Crown Attorney : I beg to move that this Council resolve itself
into a Committee of the whole Council to consider the Trade Unions & Trade
Disputes (Amendment) Bill clause by clause.
Honourable Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.

In Committee.
Clause 2-Section 2 of principal Ordinance amended.
Question put and agreed to.





71

Clause 3-Paragraph 9 (3) of principal Ordinance amended.
Honourable Crown Attorney: In the marginal note the word "Paragraph"
should be changed to Section ".
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 4-Section 12 of principal Ordinance amended.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 5-Section 13 of principal Ordinance repealed and replaced.
Subsection (2) at line 6 after the word "union ", the following words were
added :-" to produce for his inspection the account books and subscription
registers of such trade union and"
President : With this amendment, may clause 5 stand part of the Bill?
Honourable Members : Aye.
Clause 6-Section 16 (b) of principal Ordinance amended.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 1-Short title and enacting clause.
Question put and agreed to.
Honourable Crown Attorney : I beg to move that the Committee rise and the
presiding member report to Council.
Question put and agreed to.

Council resumes.
President : Honourable Members I have to report that the Trade Unions &
Trade Disputes (Amendment) Bill passed through the Committee stage with the
following amendments :-
In the marginal note opposite Clause 3, the word "Paragraph" was changed
to Section ".
Clause 5--Section 13, (2) at line 6, after the word Union ", the following
words were added :-" to produce for his inspection the account books and
subscription registers of such trade union and ".
Honourable Crown Attorney: I beg to move that the President's report be
adopted.
Honourable Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Honourable Crown Attorney : I beg to move that the bill be read a third time
by title and passed.
Honourable Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read a third time.
President: I now call on the Honourable Crown Attorney to move the
second reading of The Income Tax (Amendment No. 2) Bill.
Honourable Crown Attorney : Mr. President, Honourable Members, I beg to
move the second reading of The Income Tax (Amendment No. 2) Bill.
Honourable Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Honourable Crown Attorney : I beg to move that this Council resolve itself
into a Committee of the whole Council to consider The Income Tax (Amendment
No. 2) Bill clause by clause.





72

Honourable Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to

In Committee.
Second Nominated Member : I think that the matter would be better dealt
with if it were referred to a Committee.
Member for Kingstown : Mr. President, Honourable Members, I would like
to comment on the Income Tax Ordinance. In 1939, the Cost of Living Allowance
obtained in St. Vincent was $20.00 per month or 50 per annum. At the present
time, the Cost of Living Allowance obtained is 100, and in truth and in fact 100%
more than it was in 1939. But let us take a picture of both cases. In 1939, $20
was equivalent to the $20. In 1941 $20 due to the devaluation of the pound now
equals $34.50. Since 1939 to the present time, nobody can doubt the fact that the
cost of living has risen 300%. In addition to the rising cost of living, the standard
of living has also been increased. Couple of years ago, a Cost of Living Allowance
was paid to Civil Servants. Later on, that amount was increased, and is now
doubled. We on the other hand still have to find the money to pay the Income Tax
when the end of the year comes despite the rising cost of living. Just a few days
ago the President told us that when the end of the year comes he could just barely
get out on the salary paid to him, and he gets a duty allowance, pays no rent and
what not. What does the poor taxpayer get? You cannot attempt to impose
direct taxes on them any further. It is better you allow them a high living
allowance so that Government, instead of getting direct, will get indirect taxes.
Any fellow making $50.00 a month cannot live if he has to keep to the standard of
living today. Any individual making a salary of $60.00 and is called upon to pay
Income Tax would be forced to raise such sum illegally. Is Government
concerned where he gets it from? I want everybody here to realise that the Cost
of Living at this stage is not stepping down. It is going up higher and unless you
look for indirect taxes, until such time as we can have things done to improve the
revenue of this Government, we will get nowhere.
Member for St. George : I rise in support of this argument. I am aware that
our income tax as it stands at the present time, is wreaking hardships on a great
percentage of the inhabitants of this Colony. I believe that many of my colleagues
around this table will agree that whenever you go out to discuss taxes it becomes
a sore question especially here in St. Vincent, where poverty is visible on
everybody. You will find now $480 as allowance is not a Living Allowance at all.
You are allowed $480 and from that same $480, you cannot actually fight off one's
subsistence. But that is not all. We have a certain high percentage of unemployed
and those unemployed cannot be forgotten since they continue to live. They
must live from some source. How do they get along? They have to be carried by
those who pay income tax. I think it is a very hard thing to pay income taxes in
St. Vincent, than to be able to pay, say, in Trinidad. Since money is very scanty
in circulation here. I think that the 100 now allowed cannot even defray the
living expenses, furthermore to pay increased taxes. $1200, I suggest is an
adequate sum.

Member for South Windward : Mr. President, in support of the amendment
and to speak on the debate, personally I think primarily of those parents who
have children, and as has been said, the cost of living since 1949 to present day
conditions, has risen 300%. It has been said by the Honourable Member for
Kingstown that the Cost of Living Allowance for Civil Servants has beeiI increased







100%, therefore, the expense of one child is far more than what was allowed, if
that parent saw to it that the child was sent in a decent and respectable manner.
Therefore, since the cost of living has risen to such a pitch, due consideration
should be given. The same is true with every adult person, and the allowance we
have before our eyes will support this. Personally, I feel that more allowances
should be given for any one individual.
Member for Central Windward: Mr. Chairman, Honourable Members
speaking on this point, I must say that I do believe that we should at least step a
little higher according to the other Honourable speakers on the motion. I would
say, around $1200-that would be reasonable.
Member for South Leeward: Mr. President, Honourable Members, I have to
support this motion, seeing that the Cost of Living has gone up-I do not know to
what extent, but I do feel that the points raised during discussion on the matter
are well justified.
Second Nominated Member: As a Tax-payer myself, I would like to say,that
from the selfish point of view this would mean quite a lot to me. I did not think
that the day would come when I would be advising the elected members to be
cautious in the matter of reducing taxation. Although I agree that taxes are so
high at present that potential investors may be discouraged, yet it is my duty to
point out that we are facing a deficit amounting to $250,000. If we reduce taxes
we will Lave to ask His Majesty's Government for a bigger grant to compensate
for the reduction in revenue. Can we expect that such a grant will be readily
forthcoming from a Government whose people pay the highest taxes in the world?
Let us, by all means, produce a reasonable suggestion with a chance of its
acceptance. I fear that if we seek too much we may end by getting nothing, and
I repeat that this bill should be referred to a select Committee where this
complicated matter can be given due and proper consideration.
First Nominated Member : We are already taxed very heavily. This particular
reduction will affect all classes-not only the man in the streets. Even in these
somewhat small reductions we have here, Government will be losing. This is a
very serious matter. I myself would like to see a reduction, but seeing the amount
of money which will be involved I hesitate to support the proposal. We are in a
very bad financial state today. Do not ask for a reduction before you know what
changes the future will hold.
Member for the Grenadines: I think that it is necessary to have the amount
increased to such a standard that it will enable the ordinary man to live
comfortably off the amount allowed. But to come back to the argument, I would
say that while on one hand we would cut off something, we will be adding it back
in another direction. It is necessary that we do make a change in the income tax
allowances-but we must be cautious in doing so.
Honourable Colonial Treasurer : I have listened very carefully to all that has
been said, and I am very sympathetic with regard to the various views which have
been advanced. There are, however, several important factors to be borne in
mind and as the Second Nominated Member has said this question of income tax is
one that is very complicated, and alterations to rates and allowances cannot
properly be made in the arbitrary manner proposed. Therefore I think it would be
better if the matter were referred to a committee which will be able to deal with
it in the detail necessary. The moment you increase allowances, or alter any
given rate of tax you create a situation which affeQt#,ibo WhJgal ta.







structure which is built up on a graduated system. Therefore, it is necessary tO
examine the situation carefully to ensure that proper incidence of tax is preserved
and I feel that it is a matter which should best be dealt with by a Select Committee.
I therefore beg that this whole question be referred to a Select Committee.
Honourable Crown Attorney : I beg to second the motion.

Member for Kingstown : The question of the selection of the members of this
committee, I think should be really done within the Legislative Council.

Member for North Windward : Mr. President, Honourable Members, in regard
to the motion just moved, I would like to make it unmistakably clear that as an
elected representative of the people, I have as much right to deliberate on behalf
of those who sent me here; and I would like to express my views in this matter as
well. In the case of a Select Committee I would only cause and agree that this
motion goes to such a committee because I feel that it would be better discussed
there.

Second Nominated Member: The Select Committee will be appointed by us
here, and will have to report back to us. We will therefore have every opportunity
of accepting or rejecting or amending its recommendations.

Third Nominated Member: Mr. President, Honourable Members, we have a
deficit of $492,000 and I must agree that the rates are high and, I do feel that
there should be a reduction; but I can't help agreeing with the Honourable
Colonial Treasurer, that it is a rather intricate and complex matter. Therefore, I
feel that if such a Committee were formed, much better conclusions will be derived
from it. I whole-heartedly agree with the motion.

Member for Kingstown : I personally have no objection to this matter being
debated in a committee because I believe that more careful consideration could be
given to the matter.
Question put and agreed to.

Members of the Select Committee.
The Honourable V. D. Archer, Colonial Treasurer,
S R. E. Baynes, Member for Kingstown,
E. A. C. Hughes, Second Nominated Member,
S. E. Slater, Member for North Leeward,
E. T. Joshua, Member for North Windward.

President: Honourable Members, this committee has the power to bring in
anybody from whom they need to take evidence.
I now call on the Honourable Crown Attorney to move the second reading of
the Police (Amendment) Bill.
Honourable Crown Attorney: Mr. President. Honourable Members, I beg to
move tae second reading of The P.lice (Amendn..:nt) Bill.
Horourable Colonial Treasurer: I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
ill read a second time.






Debate on the Motion.
Member for North Windward : Mr. President, Honourable Members, I de not
agree with Section 4, subsection (i) where it reads whether in a public or private
place at line 2 of that subsection. I feel that that seeks to give too much power
to the police. That is what that section seeks to do. Because I feel that it might
be misinterpreted. And because of that, I think it gives too much power to al
ordinary police.
As regards Section 45-Pension rates or whatever rates they may be called. I
do not agree with one grade of men in that section at all. I am satisfied that to
rise to the rank of a Colonel you should start from a private. Therefore I am
satisfied that age should be unified and read as one, but I would say that all the
ranks should be the same and should be of the same number of years before
consideration for a benefit. Also, I do not agree with the certificate from the
Superintendent of Police. I think that a certificate from a Medical Board will be
sufcient. You mean to tell me that after a man serves 30 years in the service, in
order to get his pension he has to get a certificate from a man who is but human?
After all, the Superinten'ent of Police is only but human; and I do not see the
necessity for two reports at all. It might be just or unjust, but I am saying that it
will not be impartial.
To come to the Section which provides for the new association which comes
into being (Section 60), it seems that if a member finds himself Into a Trade
Union or similar body, this section seeks to deal with him rashly (See section 61).
Yet, it would appear that you allow such an association to be formed, when, at the
same time you seek to prevent any police from joining kindred organizations. You
are telling him that he should have nothing to do with these organizations, yet you
are allowing him to form an association. I don't know how other Honourable
Members take it, but to me it seems very unfair.
Member for Kingstown : Mr. President, Honourable Members, I have always
asked the question "is pension payable in recognition of service, or is it paid to
any individual in the service, but withheld from him until such time as he is
unable to work? ", but I have had no explanation in the matter. I always felt,
however, that no one man should have the right to determine whether a fellow is
unsatisfactory or not. A Medical Board should be consulted : and accordingly I
feel that a certificate from a Medical Board will be sufficient.
Member for St. George : Mr. President, Honourable Members, since the Police
Department cannot take part in any other organisation whatever, I am saying
that since they are being allowed to form an Association, they should be able to
make representation as far as salary and promotion are concerned. Since the
Police cannot interfere with other organizations, I think that they should be given
full powers to ask for representation. As far as the other sections are concerned
about giving the Police full powers in Public or Private place, I am not against it;
but I would say that if our Police had a place to train like Trinidad where they
could send them for a year's training, when they turn out on the streets they
would do their work with mere efficiency. That is what I think should be given
consideration. Then there would be no feeling as to whether a Police will abude
such powers as are given him from time to time.
Member for Soutlh Windward : Mr. President, Honourable Members, we have
to pay a certain amount of respect to the ordinary police-for you find that in the
night, while you are asleep, we have them outside to protect us; and since a Police
is nOt given the opportunity to join any organisation, I feel that all representations







should be made by the Association in regard to the question of salary and the Mke.
I think an ordinary Police should have the right to investigate into these matters
when necessary.

Member for Central Windward: Mr. President, Honourable Members, I rise to add
to this question of the Police Amendment Bill, that (as already expressed by the
Honourable Member for North Windward with respect to Pensions of the Polise)
to my mind, in the Police Force, I believe it is the same as in the Civil Service.
service is service-and if that service was good for a number of years, it could net
then get so bad after a while, that it would be left to the discretion of the
gpperiatendent of Police to consider whether he should give him a certificate or
"gt. And because of that, I think that a Medical Certificate should be the deciding
factor.
Member for South Leeward : Mr. President, Honourable Members, I too feel
that since the Police are not given the privilege of joining any other organisation,
they should be able to discuss such matters as their salaries &c. in the new
Association. At the same time, I would say that it is a very good step of the
Superintendent of Police to bring about such a thing. I also feel that a Medical
Certificate is sufficient, because if after a man serves 30 -ears for someone to come
and say 'he is no good', will not be pleasant at all. Because of that, I am saying
that a Medical Certificate will suffice.
Honourable Crown Attorney : Mr. President, Honourable Members-Actually,
9e;ntlemen, there is nothing new about these provisions at all. Section 4 of this
4. is identical with Section 35 (6) of the Police Ordinance, Chapter 125 and is
merely being re-enacted in this bill. (Reads section) There is likewise nothing
new in the provision that members of the Police Force should not be members s4
organizations such as Trade Unions. It has always been the case that Police could
not be members of a Trade Union; and this prohibition can be found in the existing
Police Regulations in Regulation 13 of S.R. & O. No. 110 of 1948. I think that
Honourable Members have not been quite fair in their criticisms as to what the
Police Association may or may not do. The Association is permitted to raise any
questions relating to the welfare of the Force except matters relating to discipline
and promotion. Salaries leave and things of that nature may be discussed by the
Association. If the Police feel that their terms of service are not satisfactory, they
definitely have the right to bring the matter before the Association.
As regards the Certificate to be supplied by the Superintendent of Police
before a policeman may get his pension the position is the same as in the Civil
Service. Section 45 lays down the conditions under which pensions may be
granted to certain ranks if the person concerned has not attained 50 or 55 years,
and there are a medical certificate and a certificate by the Superintendent of
Police to say that he has performed his duties with such diligence and fidelity
as to warrant the grant to him of a pension. Any member of the Civil Service to
whom a pension is to be granted will have to have a similar certificate signed
by the Head of his Department.
As regards the difference in the retiring ages, this is intended to give power to
retain an exceptionally efficient Police N.C.O., who although he may have passed
the normal retiring age of 50 yet may nevertheless be of great value to the Force.
Perhaps he may not be able to get around as well as a young man, but he may be
as efficient, from the point of view of organisation, training of recruits and
discipline, and it may be desirable to retain his services for a few more years.







I beg to move that this Council resolve itself into a Committee of the whole
Courill to consider the Bill clause by clause.
HRaourable Colonial Treasuer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.

In Committee.
Clause 2-Section 2 of principal Ordinance amended.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 3-Section 6 (2) of principal Ordinance amended.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 4-Section 15 (1) of principal Ordinance amended.
Member for North Windward: The whole passage "whether in a public or
private place should be removed. As far as I see, from uncertainty any individual
could be arrested wrongly. A person may be in his house around his dining table
and may be arrested for no reason whatever. I am really looking at it in the day
when by design a police may hear something and he would be able to go in a man's
place and arrest him wrongly. A private place could mean any place at all-and
for that matter, I think the whole passage should be deleted.
Second Nominated Member: What provision would you make for a man in
his own home beating his wife and causing a disturbance
Member for North Windward : Bury one, and hang the other.
Second Nominated Member: Yes, but we must try to avoid all that. The
first duty of the Police is to prevent crime.
Question that the words whether in a public or private place be deleted put
and agreed to.
Clause 5-Section 24 (1) (1) of principal Ordinance amended.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 6-Section 27 (b) of principal Ordinance amended.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 7-Section 31 of principal Ordinance amended.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 8-Section 36 of principal Ordinance repealed.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 9-Section 40 of principal Ordinance repealed and replaced.
At Mle 4 after the word "rates" the following words were added :-" and on
such conditions ".
Question put and agreed to
Clause 14-Substitution of new sections.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : I cannot overlook a case of Mr. Dowers
who- once worked at the Government Cotton Ginnery when the Superintendent of
Agriculture dismissed him on a frivolous charge. This may not In all cases be
used, but there may be a time when it might be abused.
President : May clause 16 stand part of the Bill.
Hoaourable Members: Aye






Clause 11-New sections added to principal Ordinance.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 12-Part X of principal.Ordinance repealed and replaced.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 13-Part XII of principal Ordinance repealed and replaced.
Marginal note was corrected to read Part XII.
Clause 14-Section 64 of principal Ordinance amended.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 1-Short title and enacting clause.
Question put and agreed to
Honourable Crown Attorney : I beg to move that the Committee rise, Council
resume and the President report to the Council.
Honourable Colonial Treasurer : I second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
President: Honourable Members, I have to report that the Police
(Amendment) Bill passed through the Committee stage with certain amendments.
Honourable Crown Attorney : I beg to move that the President's report be
adopted.
Honourable Colonial Treasurer : I second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Honourable Crown Attorney: I beg to move that the Bill be read a third
time by title and passed.
Honourable Colonial Treasurer : I second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read a third time.
Honourable Crown Attorney: I beg to move that Council be adjourned sine
die.
Honourable Colonial Treasurer : I second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.

President : I declare this Council adjourned sine die.


HENRY H. WI.I.AMB,
Acting Clerk of Legislative Council.



Confirmed 29th February, 1952.


W. F. COUTTS,
Administrator.




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