Statutory Rules and Orders No....
 Statutory Rules and Orders No....
 Supplement to Gazette: Legislative...

Title: Saint Vincent government gazette
Full Citation
Permanent Link: http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00077473/00660
 Material Information
Title: Saint Vincent government gazette
Alternate Title: Government gazette
St. Vincent government gazette
Physical Description: v. : ; 35 cm.
Language: English
Creator: Saint Vincent
Publisher: G.P.O.
Place of Publication: Kingstown, St. Vincent
Kingstown St. Vincent
Publication Date: October 23, 1962
Frequency: weekly
Subject: Gazettes -- Periodicals -- Saint Vincent   ( lcsh )
Genre: federal government publication   ( marcgt )
legislation   ( marcgt )
periodical   ( marcgt )
Spatial Coverage: Saint Vincent and the Grenadines -- Saint Vincent
Dates or Sequential Designation: v. 1, no. 1 (1868)-v. 112, no. 48 (Tues., 23 Oct. 1979)
General Note: Description based on: Vol. 111, no. 1 (Tues., 3 Jan. 1978); title from caption.
General Note: Supplements which accompany some numbers contain extraordinary issues, ordinances, statutory rules of order, etc.
 Record Information
Bibliographic ID: UF00077473
Volume ID: VID00660
Source Institution: University of Florida
Holding Location: University of Florida
Rights Management: All rights reserved by the source institution and holding location.
Resource Identifier: oclc - 19844741
lccn - sn 89018505
 Related Items
Succeeded by: Government gazette

Table of Contents
        Page 343
        Page 344
        Page 345
        Page 346
        Page 347
        Page 348
        Page 349
        Page 350
    Statutory Rules and Orders No. 15: The Crown Lands (Amendment) Regulations, 1962
        Page A-49
        Page A-50
    Statutory Rules and Orders No. 16: Proclaiming that section 18 of the Estate and Sucession Duties Ordinance, 1939, No. 18 of 1939, shall apply to the British possession mentioned in the Schedule to this proclamation
        Page A-51
        Page A-52
    Supplement to Gazette: Legislative Council Proceedings and Debates (Hansard) in the Fourth Session (1960-1961) held on 6th October, 1960
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Full Text



S ubli hed by authority.

VoL. 95.] SAINT VINCENT, TUESDAY 23 OCTOBER, 1962. [No. 57.


No. 205.
It is hereby notified for general information that in the event of a hurricane
threatening or approaching the Island, the following warnings will be given:--



17th July, 1962.

(1) A red flag with a black rec-!
tangular centre will be flown
on Police Headquarters.
(2) Loud Speaker and Radio
(3) Three saluting guns will be!

(1) A red flag with a black rec-1
tangular centre will be flown
from Police Stations.

(2) Loud Speaker and Radio

(1) Two red flags with black
rectangular centres one
above the other will be
flown on Police Headquar-
(2) Church Bells will ring for
5 minutes.
(3) The siren will blow for 5
(1) Two red flags with black
rectangular centres will be
flown from Police Stations.
(2) Church Bells will ring for
5' minutes.

No. 323. No. 324.
Mr. CECIL KING as Time/Tool
It is notified for general information Checker, Mechanical Division, Public
that Remembrance Day will be corn- Works Department, on one year's pro-
memorated on Sunday, llth November, bation, with effect from 5th March,
1962. 1962.
23rd October, 1962. 23rd October, 1962.
(557.) (P.F. 1359.)

5) 8, ,)9


344 SAINT VINCENT, TUESDAY, 23 OCTOBER, 1962.-(No. 57.)

No. 325.
With reference to Gazette Notice
No. 176 of 19th June, 1962, Mr. F. J.
DARE has been appointed a member of
the Hospitals' Board of Visitors for a
period of one year with effect from 2nd
October, 1962, vice Mr. K. 0. PUNNETT.
23rd October, 1962.
(S.S. 202.)

No. 326.

The following Documents are pub-
lished with this issue of the Gazette:-'
S.R. & 0. No. 15.-The Crown Lands
(Amendment) Regulations, 1962.
(T.P. 204.)
S.R. & 0. No. 16.-Proclaiming that
section 18 of the Estate and Suc-
cession Duties Ordinance, 1939,
No. 18 of 1939, shall apply to the
British possessions mentioned in
the Schedule to this proclamation.
(C.M.Fr 062.)
23rd October, 1962.

No. 327.

Copies of the Legislative Council
Proceedings and Debates (Hansard)
in the Fourth Session (1960-1961) held
on 6th October, 1960, which may be seen
at Government Office, the Kingstown
Library, and at all Revenue Offices, are
published with this issue of the Gazette.

By Command,

Chief Secretary.

23rd October, 1962.


Cap. 77.


Notice is hereby given that in pur-
suance of the provisions of section 8 of
the Crown Lands Ordinance, Cap. 77 of
the Laws of Saint Vincent, the plan

(No. A 116) of a survey of the boundary
between Crown Lands West of the
Vermont River in the Island of Saint
Vincent and lands now or lately in
possession of the heirs of W. H. Straker
and the heirs of A. Robinson, made by
Land Surveyor, C. E. Williams, has
been approved by the Administrator in
Council and a copy thereof duly de-
posited at the Surveys Office.

Dated this 19th day of October, 1962.




An Examination for entrance to the
Grammar School next year will be held
at the Grammar School on Saturday
27th OcLober, 1962. Candidates should
arrive for registration at 8.30 a.m. and
should each present a Birth Certificate
and a Testimonial from his present
Head Teacher.
Writing paper will be provided for
the Examination but Pupils must bring
their ow..i pens, pencils and rulers.

16th October, 1962.


An examination for entrance to the
Girls' High School in January, 1963,
will be held at the Girls' High School
on Saturday, 3rd November beginning
at 8.30 a.m.
Candidates must present a testimonial
from their present Headteacher that
they have reached the standard for en-
trance to a Secondary School. Birth
Certificates should be submitted to the
Headmistress, Girls' High School on or
before 25th October, 1962. Writing
paper will be provided but pupils are
requested to bring their own pens, pen-
cils and rulers.
Parents are warned that on account
of the present limited accommodation at
this school it may not be possible to
admit all who pass this examination.

23rd October, 1962.


General Certificate of Education
Examination of the University
of London.

It is hereby notified for the informa-
tion of interested persons that the Gen-
eral Certificate of Education Examina-
tion of the University of London will
be held in St. Vincent in June, 1963.
Before applicants will be accepted as
candidates for this examination, they
must be certified by the Education
Officer as fit to take it. For such pur-
pose, the Education Officer will require
evidence that the applicant has been
pursuing a suitable course of study.
Candidates may offer from one to ten
subjects at the Ordinary Level, and/or
from one to five subjects at the Ad-
vanced Level. They will be eligible for
a Certificate in respect of the subjects
in which they pass.
The following are the fees payable-
(i) An initial entry fee of four
dollars and eighty cents.
(ii) An examination fee of two
dollars and forty cents per sub-
ject at Ordinary Level, and six
dollars per subject at Advanced
(iii) A fee of four dollars per person
to cover the cost of transporta-
tion of scripts to London by air.
Candidates should submit to the Local
Correspondent no: later than the 3li.
January 1963, a statement giving their
fulh names and the subjects o;:ored fo:
the examination, their Birth Certificate,
and the Treasury receipt for the feesc
stated above.
Further particulars can be obtained
from the Local Correspondent.

Local Correspondent.

5th October, 1962.


The attention of candidates who plan
to make application for admission to
Universities to the United Kingdom for
the 1963/64 Session is drawn to the
following information received from the
Secretary for Student Affairs in the
United Kingdom for Eastern Caribbean

1. A large proportion of the Univer-
sities have advanced their closing
date for the receipt of applica-
tions to 31st December, 1962. Al-
though some of these Universities
have agreed to give special con-
sideration to applications from
overseas students after this date,
they can give no guarantee that
places will be available after 31st
December, 1962.
2. Applications must be fully and
properly documented and should
be submitted 'in time to reach
the United Kingdom Office of
Eastern Caribbean Governments
not later than 10th December,

Acting Education Officer.

12th October, 1962.



Ten shilling notes of the old series,
printed in mauve or brown on white
paper, and without a portrait of Her
Majesty the Queen, issued during the
years 1928 to 1961 will not be legal
tender after 29th October, 1962. They
wid still be exchangeable after that
date at the Head Office of the Bank of
England, but the Bank cannot under-
take to exchange notes through the
medium of the post.
The public are advised to pay into
their banking accounts without delay
any of these notes in their possession.

Accountant General.
(Currency Officer).

Treasury Chambers,
15th October, 1962.
(C.M.F. 216.)


The General Public is hereby re-
minded that the Annual Water Rates
on premises in respect of the current
year became due and payable at the
Public Works Department on the 30th
June 1962; and that services for which
rates were not paid by the said 30th
June are now liable to be disconnected
without further notice.

346 SAINT VINCENT, TUESDAY, 23 OCTOBER, 1962.-(No. 57.)

The Water Works Mechanic who has
been instructed to take the necessary
steps is now engaged disconnecting de-
faulters from the service. Reconnection
will only be made on payment of a fee
of three dollars ($3.00) in advance.

Dated this llth day of October, 1962.

Superintendent of Works.




Regulations made by the Chief of
Police under Section 79 of the
Motor Vehicles and Road Traffic
Ordinance No. 20 of 1940.

The following roads will be closed to
traffic between the hours of 10.50 a.m.
and 11.10 a.m.:-
(a) Halifax Street west of Egmont
(b) Grenville Street east of Melville
Street and Pauls Avenue.
(c) Middle Street west of Egmont
(d) Bay Street west of Egmont and
east of Bedford Streets.
(e) White Chapel Road near Lyric
Persons attending the Ceremony at
the Cenotaph are advised to park their
cars in Bedford Street, Hillsboro Street,
Bay Street and Middle Street as di-
rected by the Police.
These persons are kindly requested to
note that the roads will be closed at
10.50 a.m.

Chief of Police (Ag.)
Licensing Authority.
23rd October, 1962.



There will be a limited number of
nutmeg and coffee seedlings for dis-
tribution during 1963.
Anyone wishing to obtain plants for
1963 should apply on the same applica-
tion form for rooted cocoa cuttings

deleting the words "rooted cocoa cut-
tings for planting" and substituting
instead "nutmeg plants" or "coffee
Application forms are obtainable at
the Head Office, Department of Agri-
culture, Kingstown or from any district
Agricultural Officers. Completed forms
should be forwarded to the Superin-
tendent of Agriculture, Department
of Agriculture, on or before 31st
December, 1962.
As a guide to the number of plants
which should be used per acre, recom-
mended spacings are as follows:-
Nutmeg-15' X 15' at planting.
(These are later thinned
out to 30' X 30' apart).
Coffee -9' apart X 3'-4' in the row
or 6' X 6' on the square
A charge of 80 per plant will be made
for the nutmeg and 50 per plant for
the coffee.
Nutmeg cultivation is recommended
for areas where profits from bananas
is marginal either through difficulty in
extracting fruit, or where destructive
annual windstorms cause repeated
damage to bananas.
The cultivation of coffee on a large
scale for export is not recommended
due to large surpluses in the world
market. However there is much room
for expansion to meet local require-
ments for coffee beans at prices which
are profitable.

Superintendent of Agriculture.
11th October, 1962.


By authority of the Registration of
United Kingdom Patents Ordinance
(Chapter 156 of the Revised Laws
of Saint Vincent, 1926.)

(Gazetted 9th October, 1962).

NOTICE is hereby given that an ap-
plication was on the 28th day of August,
1962, made by Chemetron Corporation,
formerly known as National Cylinder
Gas Company, a corporation organised
and existing under the laws of the State
of Delaware, United States of America,
of 840 North Michigan Avenue, Chicago,
State of Illinois, United States of
America, for a patent entitled


Any person may at any time within
two months from the date of publica-
tion of this notice in the Gazette, give
notice to the Registrar of opposition to
the issue of a certificate of registration
upon any of the grounds prescribed by
section 27 of the Patents Ordinance
(Chapter 155) for opposition to the
grant of Letters Patent.

Registrar of Patents.
Patent Office,
Saint Vincent.
4th October, 1962.


By authority of the Registration of
United Kingdom Patents Ordinance
(Chapter 156 of the Revised Laws
of Saint Vincent, 1926.)

(Gazetted 9th October, 1962).

NOTICE is hereby given that an ap-
plication was on the 14th day of Sep-
tember, 1962, made by De Long Cor-
poration, a corporation organised and
existing under the Laws of the State
of Delaware, United States of America,
of 29, Broadway, New York 6, State of
New York, United States of America,
for a patent entitled "Improvements
in Jacking Mechanisms for Portable
Marine Platforms".
Any person may at any time within
two months from the date of publica-
tion of this notice in the Gazette, give
notice to the Registrar of opposition to
the issue of a certificate of registration
upon any of the grounds prescribed by
section 27 of the Patents Ordinance
(Chapter 155) for opposition to the
grant of Letters Patent.

Registrar of Pate lys.
Patent Office,
Saint Vincent.
4th October, 1962.


By authority of the Registration of
United Kingdom Patents Ordinance
(Chapter 156 of the Revised Laws
of Saint Vincent, 1926.)

(Gazetted 9th October, 1962).

NOTICE is hereby given that an ap-
plication was on the 14th day of Sep-
tember, 1962, made by DeLong Corpora-

tion, a corporation organised and exis-
ting under the Laws of the State of
Delaware, United States of America, of
29, Broadway, New York, State of New
York, United States of America, for a
patent entitled "Improvements in
Jacking Mechanisms for Portable
Marine Platforms".
Any person may at any time within
two months from the date of publica-
tion of this notice in the Gazette, give
notice to the Registrar of opposition to
the issue of a certificate of registration
upon any of the grounds prescribed by
section 27 of the Patents Ordinance
(Chapter 155) for opposition to the
grant of Letters Patent.

Registrar of Patp.nts.

Patent Office,
Saint Vincent.
4th October, 1962.


A.D.- 1962

SUIT No. 92/61



of Francois

It is hereby notified for general in-
formation that the undermentioned
article, property of the abovenamed
defendant, and levied upon by virtue
of a Writ of Seizure and Sale issued
in the above suit, will be pnt up for
sale by Public Auction at the Court
House, Kingstown, on Saturday the
10th day of November 1962, at 1.30 in
the afternoon.
That is to say:-
1 Board House.

Dated this 19th day of October 1962.

L. G. E. K. LEWIS,
Court House,

__ _1__


348 SAINT VINCENT, TUESDAY, 23 OCTOBER, 1962.-(No. 57.)

A.D. 1962

SUIT No. 26/62
LEON HINDS of Kingstown
of Kingstown Park

It is hereby notified for general
information that the undermentioned
articles, property of the abovenamed

defendant, and levied upon by virtue
of a Writ of Seizure and Sale issued in
the above Suit, will be put up for sale
by Public Auction at the Court House,
Kingstown, on Saturday thi 10th day
of November 1962, a, 1.30 in the after-

That is to say:-
1 Motor Cycle P. 122
1 Ice Box
Spare Parts (Motor Cycle)

Dated this 19th day of October 1962.

Court House,

L. G. E. K. LEWIS,



Average circulation during August, 1962
British Caribbean Currency
Demonetized Government Notes



British Caribbean notes and coin in
circulation on 1st October, 1962 ..

Trinidad and Tobago
Baibados ...... .......
British Guiana
Grenada ...... ......
St. Vincent ...... ......
St. Lucia ...... ......
Dominica ...... ......
Antigua ...... ......
St. Kitts ...... ......
Montserrat ......
"Proof Sets" of Coins

...... .... 39,892,055
...... ..... 5,021,100
.... ...... 679,300
...... ...... 1,224,000
- ... 789,600
...... ...... 256,700





Total British Caribbean notes and coin
in circulation on 1st October, 1962.....
Demonetized Government notes out-
standing on 1st October, 1962
Trinidad and Tobago ...... ...... ....
British Guiana ...... ............
Barbados ...... ..... .......

Total Government notes outstanding

Total circulation on 1st October, 1962 ......

British Caribbean Currency Board,
Treasury Chambers,
Port of Spain,

$89,925,555 $4,870,702


975,498 -

$90,901,053 $4,870,702

Executive Commissioner,
British Caribbean Currency Board.

SAINT VINCENT, TUESDAY, 23 OCTOBER, 1962.-(No. 57.) 349


It is notified for general information that the Inspection of Weights and
Measures for the year 1962, will commence on Thursday 1st November, 1962.
2. Persons concerned are asked to present their Weights and Measures
at the Police Stations in their Districts on the dates scheduled, between the
hours of 9 a.m. and 4 p.m.

Spring Village
Sandy Bay
Paget Farm
Port Elizabeth
Union Island

Thursday 1st to Friday 2nd November, 1962.
Saturday 3rd November, 1962.
Monday 5th to Tuesday 6th November, 1962.
Wednesday 7th to Thursday 8th November, 1962.
Friday 9th to Saturday 10th November, 1962.
Monday 12th to Friday 30th November, 1962.
Thursday 1st to Friday 2nd November, 1962.
Saturday 3rd to Thursday 8th November, 1962.
Friday 9th to Saturday 10th November, 1962.
Monday 12th to Tuesday 13th November, 1962.
Wednesday 14th to Thursday 15th November, 1962.
Friday 16th to Saturday 17th November, 1962.
Monday 19th to Tuesday 20th November, 1962.
Saturday 24th November, 1962.
Thursday 22nd to Friday 23rd November, 1962.
Tuesday 27th November, 1962.
Thursday 29th November, 1962.
Friday 30th November to Saturday 1st December,



Mesopotamia-On Friday 2nd, 16th,
30th November and 7th, 14th and
28th December.

Biabou-On Tuesday 20th November

It is here', .- notified for general infor- and 4th, 11th, 1
nation that Land and House Tax in Layou-On Thurs
respect o, thi ;,nrrent year will be re- 12th, Thursday
ceived without fine at the Inland Monday 10th, T
Revenue Department, Kiljg-town, and and 27th Decemi
at the District Revenue ( Clees at
Georgetown, Barroualli? and Union Chateaubelair-On
Island during the period 1st November November and
to 31st December, 1962, and at Sandy day 14th, 21st a
Bay, Colonarie, Biabou, Mesopotamia,
Layou and Chateaubelair on the dates P. D. 0
listed hereunder:- A
Sandy Bay-On Friday 23rd Novem-
ber and 21st December. Treasury Chambers,
Colonarie-On Thursday 8th, 15th, Kingstown,
22nd and 29th November and 6th, Saint Vincent.
13th and 20th December. 4th October, 1962.

.8th December.
day 8th, Monday
29th November and
hursday 13th, 20th

Friday 2nd, 16th
Tuesday 11th, Fri-
nd 28th December.

accountant General.

[ Price 30 cents. I




1962, No. 15.
(Gazetted 23rd October, 1962.)
1. Short title. These Regulations may be cited as the Crown Lands
(Amendment) Regulations, 1962, and shall be read and construed as one with
the Crown Lands Regulations, 1946, S.R. & O. No. 46 of 1946, (hereinafter
referred to as the principal Regulations) and all amendments thereto.
2. Revocation of Regulation 12. Regulation 12 of the principal Regula-
tions which deal with .applications for renewal of agreements is hereby
3. Variation of Form of Agreement in Schedule to principal Regulations.
The Form of agreement in the Schedule to the principal Regulations shall be
varied as follows:-
(a) by the deletion of Clause 1 thereof and the substitution therefore of the
"The Chief Forest Officer shall let and the Tenant shall take all
that lot of land situate at
in the Island of Saint Vincent containing acres
more or less and bounded as follows:

from year to year until the tenancy shall be determined at the
end of the first or any subsequent year by one calendar month's
previous notice in writing given by either party to the other at
the rent of payable in
(b) by the deletion of the final proviso to Clause 1t thereof.
4. Commencement. These Regulations shall come into operation on the
1st day of June,-1963.
Made by the Administrator in Council under the authority of Section 5 of
the Crown Lands Ordinance, Cap. 77, this 2nd day of October, 1962.
(T. P. 204.). Clerk of Executive Council.


$ / /S


1962. Price 4 cts. ]



1962, No. 16.

(Gazetted 23rd October, 1962.) 3





WHEREAS it is provided by subsection (1) of section 18 of the Estate and
Succession Duties Ordinance, 1939, No. 6 of 1939, that where the Commissioner
is satisfied that in the United Kingdom, or in any British possession to which
the said section 18 applies, estate duty is payable by reason of a death in
respect of any property situate in the United Kingdom, or in such possession
and passing on such death, he shall allow a sum equal to the amount of that
duty to be deducted from the estate duty payable in respect of that property
on the same death:
AND WHEREAS it is provided by subsection (3) of the said section that
the Administrator in Council may, by proclamation in the Government Gazette,
apply the said section to any British possession, where he is satisfied that, by
the law of such possession, either no duty is leviable in respect of property
situate in this Colony when passing on death, or that the law of such possession
as respects any duty so leviable is to the like effect as the provisions contained
in subsection (1) of the said section:

AND WHEREAS the Administrator in Council is satisfied that by the laws
of the British possessions specified in the Schedule either no duty is leviable
in respect of property situate in this Colony when passing on death, or that
the law of such possession as respects any duty so leviable is to the like effect
as the provisions contained in subsection (1) of the said section 18:
Now,, TH.EREFORE, I, SAMUEL HORATIO GRAHAM, Administrator, as aforesaid,
do hereby proclaim that section 18 of the Estate and Succession Duties Ordin-
ance, 1939, No. 18 of 1939, shall apply to the British possessions mentioned in
the Schedule to this proclamation.
;L& 9

4" F j


(a) C Onmonwealth" of Australia and the States of
New South Wales,
South Australia,
(b) The following provinces of the Dominion of Canada, namely:-
British Columbia,
Nova Scotia,
(c) That part of Ghana formerly known as the Gold Coast Colony.


Trinidad and Tobago.
New Zealand.
The following British possessions:-

British Guiana,
St. Christopher, Nevis and Anguilla,
St. Lucia,
The Colony of Singapore.

GIVEN under my hand and the Public Seal of Saint Vincent at the Gov-
ernment Office in the Island of Saint Vincent this 2nd day of October
in the Year of Our Lord One Thousand Nine Hundred and Sixty-two
and in the Eleventh Year of the Reign of Her Majesty QUEEN

(C.M.F. 262.)

1962. [ Price 8 cents. ]



Thursday, 6th October, 1960.

The Honourable Legislative Council met at 10.00 o'clock this i1g 0/

[MR. PRESIDENT in the Chair]

His Honour A. F. GILES, Administrator.


The Honourable
,f ft
,, ,,

B. F. DIAs, Attorney General,
I. D. B. CHARLES, Acting Financial Secretary,
A. C. CYRUS, First Nominated Member,

. ,. E. T. JOSHUA, Member for Central Windward, Chief Minister,
. H. A. HAYNES, Member for St. George, Minister for Trade and
. Mrs. I. I. JOSHUA, Member for North Windward, Minister for
Social Services,
. S. E. SLATER, Member for North Leeward, Minister for Commu-
nications and Works,
,, ,, C. L. TANNIS, Member for the Grenadines,
. H. F. YOUNG, Member for South Leeward,
,, ,, L. C. LATHAM, Member for South Windward,
. A. B. dosSANTos, Second Nominated Member,
. E. S. CAMPBELL, Member for Kingstown,
. A. C. HADLEY, Third Nominated Member.

The President opened the meeting
with the reading of the prayers of the
The Minutes of the Meeting of the
8th September, 1960 copies of which
have been previously circulated were
amended at page 40-7. QUESTIONS,
line-(1) to read "South Windward"
instead of "South Leeward". They were
then confirmed.

Mr. PRESIDENT: Honourable Members,
the Clerk of Council has received a
message from the Clerk of Legislative
Council St. Kitts-Nevis-Anguilla for-
warding a copy of a resolution moved
in an emergency meeting of the Legis-
lative Council there held on the 16th
September moved by the Honourable
C. A. Paul Southwell which reads as

1st Sitting

"BE IT RESOLVED that this Honour-
able House place on record its pro-
found and sincere appreciation of
the spontaneous, ready and welcome
assistance so abundantly received
from governments, organizations,
groups, and individuals within and
without this Territory on the occasion
and as a result of the unfortunate
disaster in the island of Anguilla
caused by hurricane "Donna";
copy of this resolution be published
and made available to all govern-
ments, organizations, groups and in-
dividuals concerned."

Mr. PiESIDENT: As this is the first
meeting of a new Session the House will
now proceed to the election of a Deputy
(Voting done by secret ballot).
Mr. PRESIDENT: Honourable Members
there have voted for the Honourable
A. C. Cyrus 11 votes and the Honour-
able C. L. Tannis, 1 vote. The Honour-
able A. C. Cyrus is therefore re-elected
Deputy President and I congratulate
him on behalf of the House for the in-
creasing onerous duties which he has to

There were no notices of motions.

There were no notices of questions.

No. petitions were presented.

Mr. PRESIDENT: I call on the Honour-
able the Attorney General to lay papers.
HON. B. F. DIAS: Mr. President, Hon-
ourable Members, I beg leave to lay
upon the Table of this Honourable

Council Paper No. 41 of 1960: Motor
Vehicles and Road Traffic (Amend-
ment) Regulations.


HON. E. S. CAMPBELL: Mr. President,
Honourable Members, I beg leave of
this Honourable House to ask the fol-
lowing question standing in my name:
Question No. 1.-
Will the Honourable Minister for
Social Services please state why there
was no official opening of the Lodge
Village School? Will she also state
why dances are held at the said school
by the People's Political Party in con-
travention of the declared policy of
the Government and the Education
Department that schools should not
be hired for political activity nor for
holding of dances?
HON. Mrs. IvY JOSHUA: Mr. President,
Honourable Members,
The urgent need for schools, especially
in the primary stage of our edu-
cational development, makes it ex-
pedient that schools should be occu-
pied as soon as they are built and they
are filled almost immediately. Schools
recently completed, including the
Lodge Village School, will have official
openings at the earliest opportunity
convenient to all parties concerned.
For the social entertainment of the
people in areas where no accommoda-
tion is available, schools throughout
the island are being used for enter-
tainments, including dances, provided
that protection of building and pro-
perty is guaranteed and the work of
the school is not disturbed. It is not
true that this is done exclusively by
any political party or for political pur-
poses in the case of the Lodge Village
HON. E. S. CAMPBELL: Mr. President
Will the Minister for Social Services
please state whether the answer to the
second part of that question is now the

avowed policy of the Government and
Education Department?
Mr. PRESIDENT: The Honourable Min-
ister will answer the question.
HON. Mrs. IvY JOSHUA: The answer is
in the affirmative.
HON. E. S. CAMPBELL: I must thank
the Honourable Member for that answer
but I will still ask a supplementary ques-
tion Mr. President. As the first part
of the answer states that it is not found
possible to open a school that already
had two school terms and has started
a third one; but why was it found pos-
sible to delay the opening of a bath at
Edinboro which cost only $800 and
which is contributing very little to the
educational and cultural standards of
the island?
Mr. PRESIDENT: I cannot say that is
a supplementary question arising out of
this question. Question No. 2.
HON. E. S. CAMPBELL: Mr. President,
Honourable Members,
Will the Honourable Chief Minister
state what is the proposal of the St.
Vincent Government concerning Cus-
toms Union of the Federation?
HON. E. T. JOSHUA: Mr. President,
Honourable Members -
The Honourable Member's question
is not understood and he is advised
that every item of hundreds on our
tariff is a proposal put forward to be
subsequently harmonized into a com-
mon tariff for a Customs Union and
internal free trade, of the Federation.
iThis territory is mainly agricultural
and hence proposals for protecting
industries, as for example Jamaica
and Trinidad is not necessary for most
of the smaller territories at -this stage.
The St. Vincent Government however
submitted that the Ham and Bacon
Factory should be given protection
if and when it begins operation.
Steps were also taken to protect our
Arrowroot starch against cheap and
substitute starches that might be

imported from outside the Federal
area to be in industrial competition
with our high grade Arrowroot starch.
The ';t. Vincent Government jointly
with other units moved to investigate
the possibility of all the units or any
of them being admitted a member of
G.A.T.T. and so on.
The St. Vincent Government is in
favour of Customs Union for the Fed-
eration provided the necessary safe-
guards are worked out.
HON. E. S. CAMPBOLL: Mr. President
could the Honourable Chief Minister
please tell me what he means when he
said the question was not understood.
Doesn't the Honourable Chief Minister
know what is the meaning of Customs
Union of the Federation.
HON. E. T. JOSHUA: Mr. President,
Honourable Members, the question
stated that it is not understood because
it is not understood. The question of
Customs Union, the question asked here
is as wide as the poles are asunder and
can't be circumscribed to any possible
single proposal since the items on each
of the territory's tariff for harmoniza-
tion are hundreds of them, each one a
HON. E. S. CAIMIPBELL: Mr. President,
the Honourable Chief Minister has still
not enlightened me any further. Is it
that the Honourable Chief Minister has
not attended discussions on Customs
Union, has not understood what is the
real meaning of Customs Union as ad-
vocated by the C. oft Commission report
as stated in the Constitution of the
Federation of the West Indies and as
discussed at several conferences con-
cerned with the West Indies?
Mr. PRESIVENT: The Chief Minister
might be able to answer that.
HON. E. T. JOSHUA: Yes, Mr. Presi-
dent, I am not assuming that Mr.
Campbell alone understands everything,
but I am saying that we have under-
stood-the delegate of St. Vincent has

Mr. PRESIDENT: Question No. 3- #,Team is expected to arrive in St. Vin-
HoN. E. S. CAMPBELL: Mr. President, cent?
Honourable Members HON. S. E. SLATER: It is proposed that
Will the Honourable Minister for 1st April, work will commence. I cannot
Communications and Works phase say that would be carried out but if the
make a statement to the House son- Honourable Member would like to find
cerning the Deep Water Quay based out anything further he may communi-
on answer to the following ques- cate with the Canadian Government.
tions:- Mr. PRESIDENT: Honourable Member
(1) How soon is the project likely for South Leeward, Question 1.
to commence? HON. H. F. YOUNG: Mr. President,
(ii) What is the source of the Honourable Members, I beg leave to ask
funds? the following question standing in my
(iii) How and by what concern is name
the construction to be handled? M
Will the Minister for Trade ,id
HON. S. E. SLATER: Mr. President, Production please state whether:
Honourable Members,
THonourae C nec a 1. It is correct that the Federal
The Canadian Technical Aid Author- Government gave a release for
ities have suggested that they would Government gave a release for
like to be prepared to begin work by 300 drums of edible cooking oil
the 1st April, 1961, on the St. Vincent from Holland in the month of
Harbour project for which an alloca- May, 1960.
tion of $1,000,000 (CAN) has been ear- Mr. PRESIDENT: Before the Honour-
marked, and they propose to send to able Minister for Trade and Production
St. Vincent an engineering firm to answers the question I would just ex-
make a careful cost estimate and &d- plain to the House that the Acting Min-
tailed project plans which would form ister will reply although the substantive
the basis for a call for tenders for Minister is in the House as a Member
the project. Before giving a definite of this House, because in accordance
commitment however, the Canadian with an instrument signed by me which
Authorities have asked for "uniquivo- makes the Honourable Member for the
cal assurances that if the harbour Grenadines as far as practical purposes
works are going to cost more than go, the Minister at the moment, so he
the $1,000,000 (CAN) allocation, funds will answer the questions.
will be available from other sources to HoN. C. L. TANNIs: Mr. President,
complete the project." After commu- Honourable Members,
nicating with the Federal and United The Federal Government does not
Kingdom Governments and the St. grant releases of cooking oil. On 3rd
Vincent Government has given the re- May, 1960 since there were no other
quired assurances. The Crown Agents available supplies of oil within the
have agreed to make such extra funds area the Federal Government granted
available by advances pending raising permission to import from outside it
of a loan in accordance with Ordin- 300 drums of Soya oil.
ance No. 9 of 1954.
Ho. E. S. CAPBELL: Mr. President, I HON. H. F. YOUNG: Mr. President,
am sorry I still have to ask a supple- Honourable Members, Question No. 2
mentary question. The answers to my Will the Minister for Trade and Pro-
questions this morning have been very duction please state whether:-
evasive. Would the Honourable Minis- It is correct that though there were
ter for Communications and Works other applicants for a quota, licences
please tell us what date the Canadian were granted to certain select per-

sons regardless of the date of their
HON. C'. L. TANNIS: The reply to this
question is in the negative.
HON. H. F. YOUNG: Mr. President I
don't believe (if you would allow me
Sir,) that the present Minister acting
can answer this question.
Mr. PRESIDENT: The acting Minister
must answer the question.
HON. H. F. YOUNG: But you can well
see, poor fellow he was implicated since
it was taken out of the Minister for
Trade and Production's hands who was
then the former Minister, he was ignor-
ant of the fact.
Mr. PRESIDENT: All I have to say is
that the Minister is bound to know the
facts because he is in the office and all
the facts are at his disposal.
HON. H. F. YOUNG: A subsequent
question to No. 2 is that the Acting
Minister .........
Mr. PRESIDENT: The Honourable Mem-
ber cannot ask a subsequent question
to No. 2 If he is going to ask Question
No. 3.
HON. H. F. YOUNG: If you would allow
me, Sir, he said there was no oil in the
Mr. PRESIDENT: I cannot allow the
Honourable Member to proceed with
HON. H. F. YouoG: All of that shows
incompetence. I would deal with that
Mr. PRESIDENT: Honourable Member
for South Windward Question No. 1.
How. L. C.. LATHAM: Mr. President,
Honourable Members, I beg leave to ask
the questions standing in my name:
Will the Minister for Trade and Pro-
duction please state whether:-
1. It is correct that contrary to
instructions from the Federal
Government a Licence was
issued on the 12th September
to p. W. Reddocok Agencies to

import 100 drums of edible
cooking oil from Holland?
HON. C. L. TANNIS: Mr. President,
Honourable Members,
St. Vincent consumes on an average
150 drums of cooking oil a month.
Practically all of this, since the des-
truction of the Ginnery has to be im-
ported. To ensure that adequate sup-
plies are available to the public this
Government very occasionally has to
issue interim licences while the neces-
sary enquiries are being made within
the area. The Federal Government
has issued no instructions regarding
the licence issued to Reddock Agen-
KION. L. C. LATHAM: Question No. 2.
Will the Minister for Trade and Pro-
duction please state whether it' is
correct that edible cooking oil is ob-
tainable in large quantities from St.
Lucia, Barbados and Trinidad.
HON. C. L. TANNIS: Mr. President,
Honourable Members,
Large quantities of oil are not al-
ways available from these islands, and
facts as to what can be made avail-
able are not easy to collect quickly.
Facts as to surpluses of cooking oil
are first sought from other oils and
,fats producing territories within the
area. On ascertaining the exportable
surpluses the Competent Authority
may issue an order for the importa-
tion of edible oils which could not be
supplied in the area in sufficient quan-
tities to make good the community's
needs. At this time the Ministry of
Trade and Production is being partic-
ularly vigilant in its enquiries to avoid
any shortage of cooking oil during the
Christmas Season.
HON. L. C. LATHAM: Question No. 3.
Will the Minister for Trade and Pro-
duction please state whether it is the
policy of this Government to disregard
the attempts of the Federal Govern-
ment to protect West Indian Indus-

HoX. C. L. TANNIS: The reply to this
question is in the negative.

Mr. PRESIDENT: Honourable Members
before I call on the Honourable Member
for Kingstown to move the motion
standing in his name, I would just like
to remind the House of the Constitu-
tional position. Although the reference
in the new Constitutional Order to
Motions of Confidence deals with the
Legislative Council, it is not in that
part of the Order dealing with the Leg-
islative Council which is not yet in
operation. It is already in force. So I
would remind the House that so far as
this motion is an attempt to upset the
Government and remove the Chief Min-
ister from his office, the two votes of the
elected members of this House arn, the
only ones that count. All Members
have a right to vote; but so far as up-
setting a Government goes, it is only
the votes of the elected members that
count. So far as it is a perfectly justi-
fiable attempt to obtain a wide ranging
debate on Government policy and a
vote at the end to see what Government
strength is, all Members are entitled to
speak and vote and their votes of course
would be noted.
HON. H. F. YOUNG: Mr. President for
enlightenment sake you mean to say
then that before an election takes place
to supplement the new constitution you
are actually bringing in force the new
constitution with this issue. I only
want to be enlightened and formally it
is a question of........ ..
Mr. PRESIDENT: I will state again:
The main parts of the Constitutional
Order in Council dealing with the Leg-
islative Council for the information of
the new Legislative Council increased
number of seats etc. and the Speaker,
would not come into force until I have
dissolved this House. But the particu-
lar paragraph which deals with Motions
of Confidence in the Legislative Coun-
cil is in another part of the Order, and

is already in force, so that, say this
morning the Government were outvoted
by the majority of Elected Members
then either the Chief Minister would be
removed from his office or there would
be a general election. Is that clear?
HON. H. F. YOUNG: Yes it is quite
clear. Constitutionally and democratic-
ally I cannot see it--one foot in and one
foot out. You would see what I mean
as a Lawyer. It is no slap to you Sir,
the Chair. We have actually enjoyed a
Chief Minister ship in January and we
sit here we haven't got the Speaker.
We sit here we haven't got the nine
seats we came in but still........
Mr. PRESIDENT: I cannot allow the
Honourable Member to make a speech.
I must ask the Honourable Member to
sit down.
HON. H. F. YOUNG: Constitutional mat-
ters can be taken up by any member
here, you know that Sir.
Mr. PRESIDENT: I must ask the Hon-
ourable Member to sit down and keep
quiet. The Honourable Member for
Kingstown -
HON E. S. CAMPBELL: Mr. President,
Honourable Members, at a time Sir,
when leadership becomes faltered, pro-
gress becomes stagnant, hope trans-
forms itself to frustration, harmony and
goodwill-discontentment. At a time Sir
when the machinery of Government be-
comes clogged and the national interest
of the community becomes obscured by
the selfish objectives of the governing
body, it becomes the duty of the Opposi-
tion Sir, to bestir the Ministers of State
to awaken from their lethargy and
place new zeal and vigour into their
efforts to prove to the community their
capabilities. It might not be by their
verbal votes but by the measures of their
achievements. One way of doing this
Sir, is by a motion of censure. A motion
of censure which seeks not so much the
overthrow of the Government as the
awakening of the Government to the
responsibilities that rest with them; to

the sacred trust which they have volun-
teered to command. A reminder Sir, to
those that govern of their responsibil-
ity to those they govern; a reminder
Sir that the power they hold and wield
so ruthlessly is a trust from those they
govern, and by the democratic wills of
those that are governed can be with-
drawn and placed in other hands. It
is a reminder to each Member of the
Government that our democracy is not
a farse, our community is not a gullable
mass easily deceived by charlatans, and
the wish of the community each one
serves to use the words of the great or-
ator and statesman Edmund Spencer
Burke, ought to have great weight with
him, their opinion, high respect, their
business unremitted attention. There-
fore Sir, with the unremitting failure
of the Government to satisfy the con-
ditions of their tenure of office, it is
with deep regret, Sir, it is with great
respect for my Honourable friends op-
posite, and it is with the profoundest
regard .......... ..
HON. C. L. TANNIS: Is the Member for
Kingstown debating or reading a speech.
Mr. PRESIDENT: It appears to me that
he is making a proper speech not read-
ing it. If I feel that he is reading his
speech I will stop him.
HON. E. S. CAMPBELL: Thank you Sir.
It is Sir, with the greatest respect for
my Honourable friends opposite, with
the profoundest regard for those I call
upon to serve that I move this resolution
of censure which reads-
BE IT RESOLVED that this Council
affirms its lack of faith and confi-
dence in the Government and expres-
ses its dissatisfaction at the incom-
petence and maladministration in the
management of the affairs of St. Vin-
cent and the Grenadines.
Mr. President I have not brought this
before this House with any intention to
deceive either this House or the com-
munity into believing that I am making
a stand that the Government is not
serving the interest of the community

while in truth and in fact there is some
measure of achievement. I have not
brought this motion before this House
as a result of any pressure or any
lobbying from my friends on this side
of the House as some of my Honourable
friends opposite would like to believe. I
have brought this motion Sir, with the
personal satisfaction that the time is
ripe for such discussion and that the
Government needs to be severely rep-
rimanded and probably also Mr. Presi-
dent, discharged. The agenda that
comes before this Honourable House
very first Thursday speaks loudly in
this respect. It possesses one virtue and
one vice-the virtue of stability and the
vice of dullness. Stability in that the
items appearing on the agenda from
month to month are always the same
thing. Dullness in that they are all
routine matters that are to be handled
in any matter-of-fact way. I have
always pointed out that to this Hon-
ourable House. Mr. President, what
politically colourful or economically
imaginative has emanated from the
mouthpieces of the high offices of state
in this community? I stand on my
record, Sir, whatever I have ever said
in this Honourable House, whatever I
now say, I said it, or did it conscien-
ciously, believing it to be true. At page
17 in our Hansards of a meeting of this
Council held on 7th November, 1957, I
made this remark-
"It seems to me that (referring to the
Opposition, at that time I was with the
Government) consider that what was
good five or six years ago is no longer
good, and they expect the new Govern-
ment to correct all those things that
they consider disgraceful in the short
space of one month. We can promise
them that we would do our bit, but not
overnight, and I hope that when next
they come here, they will come with a
different attitude because we have a
principle on which we work. We work
as a unit."
That was one month after the 1957
election, Mr. President. One month dur-

ing which I felt that the Government
was determined to work forward to-
gether in unity towards a purpose-a
cohesive purpose, a cohesive objective
which they were determined to achieve.
Mr. President as soon as I determined
that that no longer held good I had
only one alternative which was to resign
and to cross the floor. I said it at that
time conscienciously believing it to be
true; when I proved it to be false, I
made it public and declared it to the
community of St. Vincent. At a sub-
sequent meeting Sir, on the 5th day of
December, 1957 at page 27 in the Han-
sards of this House for that year, I made
a statement -
"I wish to make it clear that this
Government has an honest policy. It
has no tricks in the trade if the for-
mer Government was using tricks to
carry on their trade we are carrying
on our trade by honest means and we
intend to carry on by honest means."
It is my personal regret, Mr. President
that I did use the plural. It was my
consciencious belief that if I sit on
that side of the House, everything that
I do must be honest, not only within
my own soul and conscience but to the
eyes of the community. As soon as I
determined that I was not sitting with
men with the same objective point of
view I showed it to the community. I
resigned and crossed the floor. There-
fore Mr. President, whatever I said in
this House whatever I now say I say
conscienciously believing it to be true.
I stand on my record. Let us examine
the stand I have taken since I have
crossed the floor: On the 30th July,
1959, Mr. President, when the Govern-
ment brought a bill here to extend the
life of the Banana Board I gave my
vote to that bill. Listen to the words I
said when I was giving my support to
that bill. I was sitting on this side of
the House at that time -
"There is one thing I am a bit
worried about"

Sorry let me start a little higher -
"I feel satisfied that had that re-
port not been sent to us," (referring
to the report of the Commission of
Enquiry of the Banana Industry)
"it might have been difficult to get
this resolution passed. I -am quite
satisfied Mr. President that the rea-
sons given for extending the life of
the Interim Board are sound and are
And I voted with the Government. On
6th August I opposed a resolution
brought here by the then Leader of the
Opposition, the Honourable Member for
the Grenadines who now has crossed
the floor in opposite, direction to me.
That motion concerned the question as
to whether St. Vincent should have nine
seats or ten seats in the Legislative
Council. I saw reason with the Gov-
ernment's stand and I supported the
Government's proposition that St. Vin-
cent should have nine seats and op-
posed the proposition of the then Lead-
er of the Opposition now Acting Minister
of Trade and Production that St. Vin-
cent should have ten seats. We find
that at page 36 of the minutes of the
Proceedings in this Honourable House

HoN. E. T. JOSHUA: Mr. President I
would like to ask the speaker on what
he means. There are several months,
the statutory meeting Is once per month.
HON. E. S. CAMPBELL: I am speak-
ing of Meetings of the St. Vincent Leg-
islative Council, Statutory meetings held
in -this Council Chamber I am not
speaking about Committee meetings.
Mr. PRESIErNT: If the Honourable
Member can give the date on that last
quotation that is what the Chief Min-
ister means.
HON. E. S. CAMPBELL: I did give the
date Mr. President. I did give the date
which was the 6th August, 1959, on
page 36 of the minutes for 1959. On
the 3rd September Sir, I brought a
motion here seeking to reverse Govern-

ment's action on the sale of the Youth
Centre grounds. That motion went
through all its clarifications and after
long last we were successful in getting
the decision to be rescinded. On the 8th
of October I supported a motion by the
then Leader of the Opposition now Act-
ing Minister for Trade and Production
asking for $8 million from Colonial De-
velopment and Welfare funds. You will
find that on page 46 of the minutes. I
supported a motion from him asking
for aid for the Grenadines. Neither that
motion nor the subsequent motion ask-
ing for aid to the Grenadines was work-
ed on by the Government. Neverthe-
less Mr. President by the way the
Honourable Member now has confidence
in the Government with which he sits-
on 3rd December, I supported Govern-
ment's proposition in the form of an
ordinance that the life of the Kings-
town Board be extended for a year.
These Mr. President are sufficient to
show the stand I have taken since I
have crossed the floor. It is sufficient
to show that when I bring a motion of
this nature before this House, I bring
it because I feel definitely that the
Government needs to be severely repri-
manded and probably also, discharged.
Mr. President a smile is one of the few
ways that are available to us in con-
cealing the wretched misery of a guilty
conscience that gnaws like cancer at
one's soul. A while ago my Honourable
friend from the Grenadines smiled. It
was July 1959, Mr. President that a
motion of this sort was debated in this
House; and who brought that motion
Mr. President, it was the Honourable
Member for the Grenadines, now acting
Minister for Trade and Production. Just
over one year ago the Honourable
Member realized that the Government
needed to be reprimanded. He brought
a motion of censure. Let us look at page
21 of the minutes of 1959, Mr. President.
His motion reads words to the effect
that because of an election held in St.
Vincent in February, the people no
longer repose confidence in the Govern-
ment and because of that he thought

that the House should no longer repose
confidence in the Government. The
premise of his motion Mr. President
was rotten, and on that ground I op-
posed his motion. Because a Federal
election and a general election are two
entirely different things. A community
may support the local policies-terri-
torial policies of a party and oppose the
Federal policies. Therefore they would
prefer to have that party running the
local affairs and another party running
the Federal affairs. The premise of
that motion was rotten and therefore it
was opposed. A person has a right to
his opinion. He might find a case; I
will sight a probable case of a man
being friendly with another man for
several years. During that time his
friend carefully concealed from him his
faults so that that first man continues
to hold the second man in high esteem
until suddenly one day the worst hap-
pens. Maybe accidentally he gets to
discover that there are certain things
wrong about that second man all the
time he has been friendly with him.
Immediately he is entitled to change
his opinion of him, and he is not only
entitled to change his opinion of him
but he is even entitled to let other
friends be on their safe side by warning
them. The Honourable Member for the
Grenadines shortly changed his opinion;
he supported the Opposition against the
Government and then he now supports
the Government against the Opposi-
tion. I was in the same position I sup-
ported the Government until I realized
that what I thought they intended was
not what they really intended. I asked
a while ago what politically colourful or
,economically imaginative has eman-
ated from the mouthpieces of the high
offices of this community? We would
still be begging an answer to that ques-
tion. The Honourable Chief Minister
delivered a very long address concerning
federation. He answered questions this
morning concerning federation and up
to now the Honourable Chief Minister.
does not know what are the implica-

tions of this Federation as far as St.
Vincent is concerned. He didn't know
this morning what is Customs Union-
something I believe that a Standard 5
boy knows by now. He gave a long
address and in that long address St.
Vincent was not mentioned once, St.
Vincent has been obscured as far as
federal affairs were concerned. We
heard about the point of view of Eric
Williams, we heard about the point of
view of Mr. Manley, we never heard
about the point of view of the Chief
Minister. There is only one thing, he
had made a choice between Mr. Man-
ley's proposition and Mr. Eric Williams
proposition in that he had agreed with
Mr. Eric Williams that we need a strong
centre while Mr. Manley is advocating
a weak centre. He disregarded the fact
that Customs Union, freedom of move-
ment are going to play an important
part as far as having a proper federa-
tion that can stand on its legs in an
independent West Indies nation. He dis-
regards the fact that Customs Union
can have serious repercussions locally
if it isn't the pattern of Customs Union
with which the people of St. Vincent.
would be satisfied. He is prepared to
allow Jamaica to protect its industries
by high tariffs; if we have to import,
Lorn those countries from which
Jamaica imports, because we have no
industries of our own we have to pay
the same high tariffs that Jamaica is
asking their community to pay while
Jamaica is producing for local con-
sumption and selling it cheap on their
local market. He is going to allow
Trini(d.:d to protect her industries but
St. Vincent has nothing to protect. St.
Vincent doesn't need to keep the cost
of living as low as possible. St. Vin-
cent doesn't need to see that the tariff
when it is finally formulated should
provide very little increase if any, in
consumer goods, at the same time main-
taining the balance between revenue
collected from Customs Union and ex-
penditure which we have to get supply
by additional grant in aid. Mr. Presi-
dent the philosophy of the Government

as far as federation is concerned, is
barren, and I made a suggestion in
this sometime before they have refused
to follow my suggestion. This is what
I said in the House on the 3rd Novem-
ber, 1959:
"I have always advocated that cer-
tain matters must come before the
House for discussion before a decis-
sion is taken, although sometimes my
advocacy was rejected. But it does
not matter to me at this stage" (that
is dealing with the particular matter
which we were debating) "who de-
cides, whether it is the party in power
(because they have the right to do so
until another election) or whether
the party in power plus the members
of the Opposition will get together in
a select committee and draw up some
pattern that they feel the West In-
dies nation should take within the
next three years. Set the pace for
the other islands as St. Vincent set
the pace for the constitutional reform
which will be a fact in January."
I have often advocated that where
the Government finds itself barren of
ideas they should call together the
members of the Opposition and let us
discuss on common grounds. We can-
not alter their decision if they are de-
termined to have their decision, they
have their majority over us but at least
they can listen to our ideas and our
ideas can cut to shape policies for them
which they cannot shape. From the
answers to the question this morning
alone can prove that. Mr. President
the Honourable Minister for Communi-
cations and Works (I am sorry he is
not in his seat at the moment) pub-
lished two letters to the editor. I
thought as I understood it while I was
on that side that Ministers should not
resort to journalism. Letters to the
editor is a sort of journalism. But he
has published two letters to the editor.
I would take the last of those letters:
"Then there Is the vocational school
which is being erected on lands ad-
jacent to the old cotton ,ginnery"

I am sorry Mr. President, this is from
the issue of the Vincentian of October
1st under Correspondence. It starts
"Dear Mr. Editor"
"There is a Vocational School which
is being erected on lands adjacent to
the old Cotton Ginnery at Richmond
Hill. The International Corporation
Association of America is providing
most of the funds for the erecting,
equipping and staffing the school
whicL will cater for the Technical
Training of our boys-by this many of
the facilities offered by the Technical
Training School at Puerto Rico are
brought to our doors. We are indeed
very grateful to our American Bene-
Now Mr. President, I am not opposed to
anything that increases the opportunity
of the people of St. Vincent to gain
more knowledge. But I associate (and
that is a strong association Mr. Presi-
dent) educational and cultural activi-
ties together. I consider that not only
the mind of the school boy needs to be
developed but his other faculties. He
needs to have sport-outdoor activities
to keep those faculties in proper shape.
Now we suffered a calamity a while ago
-the calamity of the total destruction
of the Cotton Ginnery which is next
door to the Richmond Hill Playing Field.
I understand and I believe that it is
pretty certain whenever a new Cotton
Ginnery is built, it will not be built .on
the same site, it would be built at Arnos
Vale. I consider that an admirable de-
cision. Eat why in the name of all that
is good and right didn't the Government
leave the Richmond Hill Playing Field
to the school children and build this
Vocational Training Center on the site
of the old Cotton Ginnery? What is
the difference in location? What is the
difference in cost? To leave a playing
field so that children can develop their
faculties outside of developing mental
faculties only, and they have both the
playing field and the Vocational Train-

ing School. This can only be called Mr.
President short-sightedness, lack of in-
itiative, lack of vision, complete lack of
any iucenti. e to progress in this com-
munity. He continues here Mr. Presi-
ent, I believe you would tell me that I
am unparliamentary if I say Section 7
has been a deliberate falsehood:
"7. At the instance of Government,
Colonial Development Corporation is
at present installing a power unit at
Richmond in the North Leeward dis-
Mr. PRESIDE iz: I would.
HON. E. S. CAMPBELL: Mr.. President,
I know you would Sir, but I brought
this into question to show how deliber-
ately false at times we can be in support
of our selfish objectives. One of the
first elected persons in St. Vincent to
whom the matter vwas referred-I say
one of the first elected persons, because
I believe that there were official talks
with the head of the .administration
before; but one of the initial elected
persons to whom this matter was re-
ferred was your humble servant. It was
not at my initiative; it was at the in-
itiative of the Colonial Development
Corporation that a gentleman was sent
down to discuss the possibility of ex-
tending the supply of electricity in the
North Leeward area. My friend the
Honourable Member lor the Grenadines
wants to doubt me. H.Ie doesn't realise
that the Honourable Minister for Com-
munications and Wc :ks has already
gone through the tas': not with me but
in my presence, and had already admit-
ted to certain member of the community
when he saw this and told him it was
a deliberate falsehood, and it was agreed
by that Minister that a pen line should
be placed through it. I can call the
name of the gentleman who placed his
pen line through it, but somehow or
other it still appeared in the printed
copy. Yes, Mr. President, that is the
measure of achievement of this Gov-
ernment when we hear the name of
the Minister for Trade and Production,

we hear side by side certain accusation;
accusation connected with questions
placed this morning which have been
deliberately evasively answered. The
answer is in the negative, what does
that mean to us?
HON. E. S. CAMPBELL: But whenever we
hear that name called, Mr. President
there is in the community-I am not
making an accusation Sir, I am only
saying an accusation which I have
heard-there is at the minute an ac-
cusation of corruption in high offices ...
Mr. PRESIrENT: The Honourable Mem-
ber must not insinuate improper
HON. E. S. CAMPBELL: Mr. President I
tried not to insinuate it but I feel it is
my duty not only to represent my own
opinion but to represent the opinion of
the community I am called upon to
serve. We hear about the Ministry of
Social Services not pretty often. As far
as we are concerned it is non-existent.
The last time we heard about the Min-
istry was at a lavish opening of the
Edinboro bath which cost taxpayers $oi00
by sponsoring a cocktail party which
cost taxpayers $300 37% of the cost
of the bath. You can't open a school,
you can't find the time to open a school,
you can open an $800 bath for $300, so
that the bath costs practically 1371/2%
of what it, should normally cost.
HON. E. T. JosHUA: On a point of
explanation Mr. President, did I hear
rightly when the Member for Kingstown
said tL-at a cocktail party cost taxpayers
M'. P ES-DrrT: It appears to be the
HON. E. T. JOSHUA: I would ask it to
to withdrawn because it Is not true in
the debate.
HON. E. S. CAMPRSrLT,: That statement
of mine can 12e proved b-t I wouldn't
worry to prove it now. It doesn't add
much, it doesn't take away much. But
we can go on from there with the bar-

renness of the philosophy at the market
square that we hear from the Chief
Minister himself. Some meetings ago
we heard a discussion as to who was a
fool. He stated, calling my name, I
was a fool even as foolish as a fish
vendor or market people. Mr. President
I claim no pretentions to be more ele-
vated than a human being and after all
fish vendors and market people are
human beings. It shows that the Hon-
ourable Chief Minister those are the
ones whom he berates in order to try
to compliment me. Thanks for the
compliment Sir. We heard at one time
-that came from the market square
too;-"Who is running this Govern-
ment, I want to know if it is the Finan-
cial Secretary the Crown Attorney or
Mr. Hilary DaSilva? Mr. President it
is a surprise to me to know that the
same Mr. Hilary DaSillva has now a
hand at doing the drafting of letters
to the press in support of a certain
Minister. I would conclude by opening
remarks on this motion of censure but
not, before I make it abundantly clear
that my opinion, and I believe in the
opinion of several members of this
House regardless of how they cast their
votes this morning on this motion of
censure, that the premises of our 'con-
tention that the House should affirm
its lack of faith and confidence in the
Government and express its dissatis-
faction at the incompetence and mal-
administration in the management of
the affairs of St. Vincent and the Gren-
adines is a sound contention. I com-
mit this motion to the House with the
full confidence that if even Honourable
Members do not give me their votes by
the show of hands they are giving me
their votes this morning on this motion
of censure in their conscience, in theii
heart of hearts. Mr. President, Honour-
able Members I beg to move.
HON. H. F. YOUNG: Mr. President, I
beg to second this motion and ask that
I speak later.
HON. E. T. JorHUA: Mr. President,
Honourable Members, I was surprised

this morning but I should not be sur-
prised now. I should never be surprised
at the Member for Kingstown's attitude
today. I thought I was coming here to
hear worst than what was expressed in
this House, about censuring the Gov-
ernment, and of course I was thorough-
ly surprised because an authority of
the people of St. Vincent is different
from one's own authority. If one auth-
oritates unto himself the rights through
malice, ill-will, strife, hatred, and the
rest, to take up upon himself to bring
a motion here just to stir the debate,
to state inaccuracies, to state falsehood
to state equivocations, well always cissy
motions are welcome in this House when
they cannot be avoided. We have suffi-
cient time to waste today because of
the fact that the order paper described
by Mr. Campbell as always being devoid
of facts, and devoid of reasons, because
he reasons in a different plain. He
reasons according to the inhabitants of
Ma~ s or Neptune, he is not reasoning
according to the earth. He is not having
his mind on things earthly, therefore it
is impossible for him to see things
around him with improvements such as
Public Works. He holds an inflated view
of his own intelligence. He believes
that he is an Aristotle. He believes also
that no man on earth can reach his
ability in assessing things.
HoN. E. S. CAMPBELL: Mr. President, on
a point of order, at certain stages in
my debate you drew my attention to
the fact that I was imputing improper
motives. I see you have allowed the
Honourable Chief Minister to impute
about a dozen improper motives within
the last three minutes.
Mr. PRESIDENT: I do not think there
was any imputation. Proceed.
HON. E. T. JOSHUA: I was paying tri-
bute to the Member if those are impro-
per motives well then what he has stated
here this morning is a whole long string
of words. No. Mr. President, the Mem-
ber for Kingstown went to Hansards, I
would go to it too. He said what he had
stated then he believed it to be true;

but what he said then was not true,
because his friend concealed the fact
from him. But this Legislative Council
is not friendship, this Legislative Council
is a place where facts are being brought
that debates should be held; that the
facts should be properly conclusive for
the upliftment of the country. This
Member for Kingstown spoke those
things at a certain debate on the 5th
December, 1957, in this Honourable
House on the adjournment. It was on
the adjournment that he spoke these
words. These words are words based on
the fact that a working Government
cannot fulfil every iota of its programme
in one week, one day, one year. It has
a programme charted so much so that
our grants and the rest are always being
brought in from the Mother country,
and those works cannot be done by
magic, works of which he had a part on
hand, work that he vacated, left, re-
signed, under the flimsiest protest when
he bid for leadership of the party; re-
signed when he thought that he could
get along by overthrowing the Govern-
ment and forming his own. The ques-
tion is Sir, it is a pitiable thing because
we have on record nothing that is sub-
stantial to prove that the Member for
Kingstown had any reason for accusing
the present Government for acting as
he did, more than his bid for leadership
in that he thought that he could have
been a better leader than the Member
for Central Windward and Chief Minis-
ter. He thought he would have been a
better Chief Minister, he thought he
could have been a better leader, he
thought he could have been a better
everything, for we have nothing on
record to show that the Member for
Kingstown was aggrieved or oppressed
by any substantial reason. Why he
resigned? (Quotes) "Mr. President
Honourable Members I am shocked
beyond all measure by the debate this
morning." That debate on 5th Decem-
ber, 1957, the Member for Kingstown
spoke on the adjournment, he was then
Minister for Communications and Works
in the present Government. "I am
shocked beyond all measure by the
debate this morning. As a result of
a general election held on 12th

September, 1957, I was returned to the
Legislative Council. When I got there
I realized that there were. instructions
that were sent to this Government by
the Secretary of State. I want to ask
one question. How could the Secretary
of State send such instructions if some
former Government did not put up pro-
posals to that gentleman? The Right
Honourable Secretary of State must
have had some proposals put up to him;
and he must inform the Government of
which the Honourable Member for South
Leeward was a Member. Now he comes
and accuses this Government of having
taken an increase which he had re-
fused. Had he refused it and still put up
proposals to the Secretary of State? I
see in the Honourable Member for South
Leeward a most dishonest man who
should not claim to be a representative
of people in this community. I did not
intend to speak on this adjournment
especially as the Honourable Minister
for Trade and Production has already
replied to the Honourable Member for
the Grenadines." Mr. President these
words here are true not of one man who
hates a Government today, or likes it
tomorrow, or conversely likes it today
and hates it the next day. These are
fundamental concepts of men's charac-
ters and principles in that if the
speeches-this was allowed by Hansard
because the further facts of the debate
shows that it was allowed by the Presi-
dent because the Member said that this
man-the Member for South Leeward a
most dishonest man who should not
claim to be a representative of people in
this community. The question is, Mr.
President, hearing the Member this
morning imputing his motives, speaking
of trying to frame questions, trying to
debate inaccuracy, questions of evasion
and the rest, straight forward questions
put by him bearing on one meaning the
overthrow of the Government or the
imputing of improper motives of corrup-
tions to Minister and the rest; when his
fanciful imagination leads him to bring
them he got straight and fundamental
questions and replies to his questions in
this House, then he calls them evasive,
he calls them all sorts of names because
he feels that nq replies or set of replies

given in this House to question can
satisfy the Honourable Member for
Kingstown. He himself as he started out
in politics joined the People's Political
Party, elected to a seat, became a
Minister. When he did, he was the one
who told the people of social reform,
of community centres, he told them
all of that, and not just because he is no
longer sitting in the Government, just
because he no longer represents the
people of Kingstown because we know
the Member for Kingstown no longer
represents the people, he does not re-
presents them in that we know from the
amenities, from. the complaints, from
the everything we know whether a Mem-
ber has any part or parcel any longer
with the people in such a state as the
Member described it this morning. We
heard the question, he had the nerve to
refer to it-the question on the social
services and schools. He was personal
in that the schools were given merely
to the Political Party in power. We are
inclined to feel that that was unfair in
that entertainments were held there
under the instigation of what they call
the N.D.P. of which the Honourable
Member is the Leader-Leader of a
party called the National Democratic
Party. This is the record and of course
it was unfair that such a question
should be brought here at all. Such a
question is really to show malice because
it is a fact.....
HON. E. S. CAMPBELL: Mr. President,
on a point of order Sir, I wish to make
the records clear; the N.D.P. of which
the Chief Minister speaks has never held
any entertainments in the Lodge Village
School as he asserts at the moment.
HON. E. T. JOSHUA: Mr. President
that is not debatable. The Education
Department records can prove that. It
is not debatable because it is obvious
that a certain area having a lot of
people who never had the privilege of
having any public house the school must
be used for their entertainment. Un-
fortunately our country was neglected
for decades in the past, and because of
that neglect, in this generation, in this
present Government where everything
is pressing necessity at this time-roads,

water, lights, schools, public houses, en-
tertainment, places for entertainment
and the rest. And so Mr. President the
population itself have in every society
disgruntled people, we have in every age
people if you bring down the moon and
stars and consumate them or make them
into coins and spend it they still
wouldn't be satisfied for those we have
no explanation; to those we have no-
thing to say; but we are satisfied that
the community in which we move, and
live, and have our beings, they are satis-
fied that this Government under the
present condition of what was to be done
in the country, they are satisfied. The
people whose Government it is because
they are the electorate, they are satisfied
that we have done a job 'to their satis-
faction. Therefore Mr. President, it is
obviously clear that in this House this
morning, after you had explained in your
announcement the method in which the
motion should follow by votes or by
disposal, .the Member for Kingstown
raised his tune and said he just come
to censure the Government. The Mem-
ber for Kingstown was always looking
for the overthrow of the present Govern-
ment after he had resigned and bid for
leadership, when he made his bid to
prove whose blood was reddest. He bid
for leadership and last time when we
bade for leadership the Member for
Kingstown did everything to overthrow
the present Government and that was
all that I have on record and the public
has on record. We have Sir, a further
reference, we should show motives
whether they are clear, whether they
are wholesome or not. I would refer
again to Hansard. I am only doing
these things so that we can put vis-a-vis
the dates here, some sort of record be-
cause what was spoken here this morn-
ing to my surprise if you have sat here
and did'nt even answer the censure mo-
tion let it be put to the vote, but only. to
put something on record that we may
spare a few minutes here Sir, I refer to
page 28, the 7th November Mr. President,
1957, the Hansard of the Meeting Thurs-
day 7th November. The Member again
on the adjournment said-
"HON. E. S. CAMPBELL: Mr. Presi-
dent, Honourable Members, as I listen-

ed to the opening stages of this debate
on the adjournment, I was reminded
of a story of a taxi driver who was try-
ing to make his way through a storm.
As he tried to get along there was a
sudden flash of lightning. He did not
mind the lightning because it lighted
up the way for him; but following
that, there was a sudden peal of thun-
der. That scared him immensely,
therefore he decided to offer a prayer
and this was the prayer that he offer-
ed: "Dear Lord if it means all the
same to you, I beg you to give us a
little more light and a little noise." I
suppose that all sensible Honourable
Gentlemen here today will feel the
same way when they take into account
the first two speeches of this debate
for the adjournment. These Gentle-
men the Honourable Member for
South Leeward and the Honourable
Member for the Grenadines have been
fortunate to have been Members of
the Executive Council in the past Gov-
ernment and these Members have
been quite patient for the past five
years, they are seeing a lot now that
they have never seen during those
years. We have been here just over
a month, we have been faced with the
task of getting through the Budget in
time for the Budget Session. Despite
the fact, we have been moving around
and we have been seeing a lot and we
have been making plans for having
certain things corrected; things that
we saw before we came in here that
needed correction.
The Honourable Member for South
Leeward spoke about schools... ."
Now Mr. President, of course the logic
of law, the rule of law, and of course I
am speaking in terms of a layman, but
still, the rule of law tells us that you
defend your client whether he is right
or wrong but he must have defence.
The debate that caused this Honourable
Gentleman to make use of these remarks
this morning-he was not defending a
client who was charged for murder or
charged for larceny, he was simply as he
claims to be, an elected representative
of the people who was stating a just
fact in that it is known that high sound-

Ing words may mean very little to an
ordinary man who perhaps didn't reach
very far in school; to come here and use
a certain amount of words today that
actually some of them are meaningless,
some people deceive themselves into be-
lieving that a School Certificate got
from school makes one sometimes believe
that he is a nonpareil of learning; but
that is not so. We have just begun
after having had that school certificate,
to go out into life to practise oneself
for the future and for the vocation;
because a sound educationist once said
that education does not depend on how
many books you devour at school, but
all useful information accumulated by
one whose life passage through this
world is from the cradle to the grave.
Some people have an inflated idea of
their own intelligence and their own
ability, and those types of people inflate
their own ability, and it becomes a com-
plex or a disease that makes them be-
lieve they are superior to all men that
live on the face of the earth. It is like
a disease that is contagious to practise
in an education can only come from the
experience in the world in which you
move-not from books. Therefore then,
some people whom some other people
believe have no reading ability, no learn-
ing ability, no writing ability, then we
can fool them off by saying whatever
we like and we are believed. That's a
tangled web we weave when we practise
to deceive people and give them the
wrong idea of life and living. Then we
make that as simple as ever-a jest in
such places like the Honourable Legis-
lative Council. We see no need this
morning for a censure motion. This is
one of the best Governments that ever
operated in St. iVncent. .... .
(Interruptions) Some people talk about
salary, money, and the rest, and incom-
petence, but this is one of the best Gov-
ernments that ever operated in this
country. The population of the country
is saying so. Not disgruntled Members
of the House.
Mr. PRESIDENT: Order, order! the Hon-
ourable Member must compose himself.

HoN. E. T. JOSHUA: We heard Mr.
President, we would comment directly
on the words of the Honourable Member
in his speech. He spoke about a letter
to the press. He spoke of a letter sent
there by the Minister for Communica-
tions and Works. We heard a broadcast
of that speech before I saw a letter as
he styled it. We know that it is the
duty of any journal to publish straight-
forwardly or otherwise the true honest
Godgiven actions of any Government in
a country; but like what we have in this
Honourable House-an Opposition op-
posed to the Government, some opposi-'
tion for opposition sake-we find so in
every country, we generally have the
press. Of course unfortunately we have
one, which one week it would voice one
opinion and the answer to that is very
far and remote. Sometime you find the
answer to some unfair comment in the
Trinidad Guardian, for example, al-
though it circulates throughout this is-
land it takes a longer time to reach
this territory, but nevertheless it reaches,
We say that truth travels very slowly
like hackneyed seventeenth century
coaches while falsehood by a press of an
electric button prevails and like a lamp-
lighter, the whole world. We say this
that truth will prevail and truth will
reach where falsehood dwells. We know
very well that most of the answers to our
tasks, we find them by written informa-
tion to the public, sometimes they are
published locally, sometimes they are
ignored. And if the Honourable Mem-
ber for South Leeward have the press to
minimise such an important document
as the advancement of this county, as
a letter in the ordinary sense instead of
an editorial, instead of proclaiming the
highest from pages of the journal, you
can see exactly that press when it is in
opposition minimises the true work of
the Government of the country. So it
is with an unreasonable warped opposi-
tion that only knows one way and one
method. If you examine Hansard and
you will find one type of debate of an
Opposition-abuse of the Chief Minister
about salaries, and about trade union
and something like that, fundamental
points that aim and poise against the
people but butt and couch in this Hon-

ourable House of abuse mainly as a
target of the Chief Minister formally
the Minister for Trade and Production.
If the people can get Hansard to read
those very words of mine which were
spoken, it was clear here-some of the
speeches are really meaningless in that
in the haste to abuse and haul injectives
and to impute improper motives, there
is no time to make a proper speech be-
cause when evil is in the mind the wit
is out. Mr. President it is really ashame
that we in this enlightened age do try
to deceive so glaringly. This Govern-
ment formed as it was in 1957, forni'ed to
do its best in this community, and I may
refer this House to a statement made
not so long ago. It was made on the
10th June, 1958. It was made after a
long speech in this House. I think it
was the question about asking this
House about different programmes of
Colonial Development and Welfare one
of which was referred to this morning,
a statement made by the Mover of the
motion when $8 million asked for-$8
million of Colonial Development and
Welfare grants to this community. That
motion was sent when it was well known
that the grant of 540,000 was already
given to this community. That grant
was controlled in part by the Federal
Government who made the allocation
according to the needs of the various
units. We had in fact, Mr. President
adopted a motion here which you re-
member well. We did adopt the motion
but it was late enough; because it was
only after the amount was passed that
we actually sent that motion to the
Federal Government showing what the
Opposition thought. The Government
adopted that motion Mr. President, be-
cause it was an orderly motion, it wasn't
a motion by wishful thinking, we knew
that we needed that money and more.
Our disabilities whatever we had, the
540,000 given we were trying our best
to see it go around as far as possible in
every area in every District. And so
Sir, calling you to the passage I would
quote the Hansard Thursday 10th June,
1958. This is the opinion then held Sir
of the attitude towards this country of
an honest Government:

"HoN. E. T. JOSHUA: I should now
at this stage tell this House that the
Government is doing all which lies in
its power, christianlike and in a hu-
man like manner, to see that good
Government prevails and the people
get that which is due to them. It is
a fact that I strain all nerves, tissues,
and sinews to see to it that justice and
righteouness prevail in our country."
Well there is a different idea the Page-
ants held by righteousness. A different
idea the Pageants held and a disgruntled
dissatisfied man held of Christian life.
Not all of us are Christians, some of us
speak about Chirst but the opposite
effect in public is the devil. Some of us
speak about God and his Christ and we
have the opposite effect, but when the
storms beat on a country-not the storm
as Dona-we are preserved from those
storms whether we are worthy so much
of God's mercy is still left to be seen.
But what we speak about is not that
type of mercy that is in the hands of
Providence. We are speaking of people
who provoke God everyday by the more
blessing that he showers on them the
more they curse him who is over all.
That passage is drawn to the attention
of this Honourable House because from
since the 10th June, 1958 when this
statement was made the attitude and
policy of the Government as I know it,
Ministers are the same they haven't
changed. So therefore Mr. President I
don't think that we should starve Min-
isters today or the Members of the House
or the whole House. We feel, as the
Mover of the Moti n himself has said
that he only broup-it this motion here
to tickle up the Ministers. My own
opinion of the motion is still being held,
it could never change, but I am quoting
the Member's own words. He said, "I
have only brought this motion as a
censure for the purpose of censuring the
Government so that they would wake -ip
because they are asleep." Could we be
sleeping in the time of a big road pro-
gramme, completion of an airstrip, com-
pletion all over the place, we are hum-
ming and buzzing with activities-tech-
nical school, construction of grammar
school and the rest. All these matters

lie heavily on the shoulders of-the pre-
sent Government. Can that be a sleep-
ing Government? Can you walk down
or drive down an avenue where a car
passes every second and expect to go
asleep there? No. The traffic will knock
you to Gibbons. That is the same thing
with this Government. We could not
be asleep with thousands of pounds
buzzing all over the country and dis-
charge Ministerial responsibilities to have
this country satisfied as it is. We have
for instance read what is happening in
the other units. It is a pattern of the
Opposition to try to oust Government.
This is the reason for it: at the time
when certain people rack their sinews,
break their bones for nothing. They
felt it strange. Nobody cared much
about the Council. Many were asked,
they cut off the quota of the Chief Min-
ister they were asked, they didn't want
it then, there was -nothing in it but as
soon we too must march on like the
other parts of the civilised parts of the
Commonwealth. These West Indian
Islands have at long last constitutions
that mesh with the constitutions of
other larger islands of the West Indian
Archipelago and in the Federation. Then
as soon as things begin to take shape,
it is not so much representation which
cause men to behave like this, it is just
for the sake of money that men have
sold their souls, money that they come
here to deride, to catechize to the rest
of us with the hope of turning sufficient
sod and mud and cruelty so that they
can change public opinion. They can
blow their pipes until they burst, public
opinion is not the opinion of one or two
men who are disgruntled, public opinion
is like a war, when public opinion has a
right to change that is the time the
public will set and thelr bidding will be
dcno. I feel Mr. President that I have
no longer to go. But they speak of
falsehood-this member made a state-
ment on falsehood without authority
wvit'int p--oof. I hone the Minister for
Comm unicati'ns and Works would deal
with that. This falsehood in Richmond
Hydro electric is no falsehood it is an
accomplished fact. The Hydro electri-
city a daring of Providence in our coun-
try had all the facilities. An ordinance

that gave them every vestige of control
to work and to build a hydro service.
The Hydro authorities themselves did
not even know that it would progress
so much. They themselves did not even
know in a small island like this response
that was given to it people would have
responded so much to it that they made
profit throughout. Most of their schemes
in other parts of the world have failed
and Colonial Development Corporation
lost money to the tune of millions of
pounds. In our country we have in-
formed the Ilydro Electric Corporation
thaj they have thousands of persons
under the very nose of the hydro gen-
erators, they had no light, there was
darkness. We as time would come when
every function incorporated in our coun-
try would have to declare itself vis-a-vis
the Government because it would not be
long before the West Indies would be an
independent West Indies. Therefore
having the Hydro developed its current
on the Leeward coast to mesh where the
water of the Richmond River can provide
as much or more current as that now at
South Rivers. So tied together a system
of electricity plain throughout the island
so that certain districts would at long
last get their quota of current. I could
not see for the life of me how one can
come to this House and call these facts
stated here in paper that was read in the
form of a letter to the press, I couldn't
see as far as I know how that could be
open falsehood, I don't know. Mr. Presi-
dent it is fact that I end this debate by
saying your enemies those who envy you,
those who show a Cain/Abel affair can
never speak anything good. And that is
so true that sometimes it is only the
human element prevailing that makes
you reply at all. I feel this morning
that we have wasted our time in reply,
we considered well what was to be done,
I consulted my Ministers very quickly to
find out whether we would reply or
whether we must dismiss this motion.
The public knows the facts and we
serve the public. Whether we should
dismiss this motion as a tale told by an
idiot full of so'md and fury signifying
nothing or whether we should even
first to keep the records straight we may
answer to it, My Ministers advised me

reply because the fact remains it wasn't
a time when there was a division in the
Government. The Member for Kings-
town fully well knows what is the con-
stitutional effect. Of course I couldn't
say he knows because on the 1st January,
he did not even know the constitution
that he couldn't be Chief Minister under
the circumstances, so I couldn't vouch
now to say he knows, His Honour, the
President, pointed it out to him. He
came here not to censure. If by one
mighty heave he could move us by cen-
sure motion or otherwise the Member
for Kingstown would do it. But it was a
chance of hearing an explanation given
about the constitutional effect. The
Member for South Leeward queried be-
cause the machinery was going one way.
A lawyer may not go into courts with
just the story of his -client, he has to
have his legal implications and his own
effect on what was being brought before
him so in case his client's story breaks
down he can pad it up with what is
factual and what is truth. Therefore
like four lawyers we can see the counter
attack this morning when the effect of
the ruling was explained. That we see
quite well. Mr. President I leave the
balance of the facts to the Ministers,
any points that they would like to clear
up because I see no need of wasting
any more time on such a motion in this
HoN. H. F. YOUNG: Mr. President,
Honourable Members, I have listened
and I also am quoting this morning, and
I thought that the Chief Minister would
realise the importance of his office, his
duty toward this community, and as an
elected representative on this side with
an Opposition which democracy calls
for he was going to outline to us Sir the
reason or during his term of office with
his three years what progress his Gov-
ernment has done. I waited and all I
hear is about Mr. Campbell the Member
for Kingstown and hate and malice. So
let us see what we are doing. The Chief
Minister must realise I will quote his
own passage in a Legislative Council de-
bate when he was in the Opposition
before the introduction of the Minis-
terial system when he said on this side

of the House that democracy allows an
opposition, and it is the duty of an
Opposition without quoting-I can even
tell his exact words-to oppose the Gov-
ernment and to bring to the Govern-
ment the light when they forget to do
the things that they should do. We
have been with the Chief Minister of a
country and they have not told us why
and no honest Member there or Minister
can tell us why, what have they done?
Mr. President stage (1): A manifesto
was printed whether it was printed from
the pattern of Trinidad or not but I
would take this manifesto and debate it.
"People's Political Election Manifesto.
Date, 12th September, 1957.
voters of Saint Vincent you have
had six years of:-
Misgovernment, Maladministration,
And as I look across the Table I am
seeing ignorance.
"Incompetence, individualism. We
are now tired of this state of affairs in
our country, therefore you must vote
People's Upliftment, Political Educa-
tion, Political Self Determination."
Any party that is in power and print a
manifesto has to carry out that mani-
festo or at least a part of it, because it is
the liaison of the people, you find Eric
Willliams doing that. I am speaking
high politics today, not personalities.
Then you go on to say-
"P.P.P is the only party in St. Vin-
cent which has a comprehensive policy
and has a clear cut programme, dedi-
cated to the promotion of the General
Interest, proud to admit its capability
to stick to a Policy. Vote P.P.P. on
Election Day September, 12th 1957.
So we turn into the page of this mani-
festo which is the bible of the pro-
gramme of the party now in power, and
we will see Sir how much of this mani-
festo is carried out, and how much de-
ception went on in this country. "O0
what a tangled web we weave when we
practise to deceive"-his own words. So

let me see where deception lies now.
This is the P.P.P. manifesto, not mine.
"The present policy of the Government.
Government that functions on vin-
dictive, autocratic and oppressive mea-
sures is bound to be despotic. Des-
potic government would institute in-
discriminate taxation that would bring
hardships to some and oppression to
I stop at the word "taxation", only to
find this year that the P.P.P. Govern-
ment--the people don't know-intro-
duced taxation doubling the land and
house tax for some people. That is
question No. 1-December when most of
them come from the country then they
would know. We go on-
"The consumer is made to pay for
the faults and folly of short-sighted
profit makers. Every consumer, every
man on the street, every housewife
have all seen and experienced this
policy in the present Government."
Mr. President how true it is, every house-
wife today, every civil servant has seen
the cost of living rise-fish for an enor-
mous price, meat at 75 cents per pound.
We have seen that all the things for
the hungry man has gone ap and all the
P.P.P. was supposed to do is now proved
to be the opposite. Local Government,
I won't worry about that. "Federation
-the system of party government must
be understood and be .well appreciated
by all our people. If our people fail to
understand this Vital Point no party
with a majority to carry decisions will
be in power responsible to the people.
The accustomed tug of war and stooge
council set ups cannot now be allowed to
operate against the best possible interest
of our country.
"Voting blindly for individuals each
with his own individual policy"......
Of course he is right. Vote blindly for
individuals but you have voted for a
party and they go on to tell you lower
down, I would not worry with all this,
let me take out the best and the worst

"Honest and unequivocal industrailisa-
let me pause for a little while. Every
country today Sir, whether it is highly
industrialized or not, is going out to
foster its agricultural resources, is going
out to see to it--even the Great United
States and Russia, that their people have
food. Subsidize the farmers, and we
have seen in this country that is purely
agricultural, we have seen the ginnery
burnt which is a part of our industry.
We have seen Stephens factory at
Georgetown burnt, we have seen our
crops burnt to pieces Mr. President. We
have seen that which we had go to
nothing and the P.P.P. has promised in-
dustrialisation and even those that the
P.P.P. met have gone. Mr. Layne has
started to build his place back. Mr
President this is what I am going to talk
on, facts. The Government Cotton Gin-
nery Sir, has got insurance. The Min-
ister for Trade and Production made a
statement in Barbados when he was re-
turning from the Cotton Conference,
that in six months time the Ginnery
might have been built back. The bread
basket of our poor people in the coun-
try-St. Vincent Sea Island Cotton,
the best in the world St. Vincent Sea
Island Cotton that placed us, our poor
mothers and children that went to
school, older women who are not work-
ing were able to be put to clean cotton.
Where it is now? Psychologically Mr.
President they have their few acres of
cotton planted it isn't much because
they said where are we going to sell our
cotton? The bales we had last year had
to go to Barbados to be ginned-the
extra cost. Where is the oil, the same
oil we are talking about? The bi-pro-
ducts to feed our cows, where is it?
Where is your industrialisation and
where is Caravan whom you brought
from Trinidad? And there would be
other questions.
Mr. PRESIDENT: The Honourable Mem-
ber must refer to Members by their
Hc7O. H. F. YOUNG: Carrabon is not
an Honourable Member Sir, he was

Mr. PRESIDENT: The Honourable Mem-
ber said "You brought Mr. Caravan."
I did not bring Mr. Carrabon.
HON. H. F. YOUNG: Sorry, not you,
Sir, but the Chief Minister. Then we
go on-
"Protection against unfair monopoly.
and Competition"
Mr. President, all I am trying to show
is what this Government has done. He
spoke about the Member for Kingstown.
Which man who marries a girl and she
might be very beautiful and cannot live
with her does not get a divorce and
marries another one. This is an honest
man who has left $750 because he could
not go with the nastiness, and came on
this side to serve his country. I was in
the Labour Party, when the Chief Minis-
ter went around and quoted that I was
dishonest, but the Chief Minister should
know that if I was dishonest I would
have been over there in the Social
Ministry. I refused it at mid-night and
I would refuse it tomorrow until the
people of St. Vincent-my people realise
the nastiness they have. I could talk
because December when the Minister
for Trade and Production came to my
place at Layou and told me Mr. presi-
dent (I would show you incompetence
now) that the present Minister for
Social Services was not fit and was voted
into this little body here today, eight
pieces of paper voted here for me, I got
up here and declined manfully. Praise
God I am still alive today and at no
time I would have taken a better action.
Then you could see where dishonesty
lies, you only got to look at your right
and you will see dishonesty, and you see
incompetence and ignorance as Minister
for Social Services, not able to carry out
the duties then our people are suffering.
Where is the conference in Grenada?
Where is the education department, to
set up a training school for our teach-
ers? Why he had to go along? Mr.
President the Chief Minister, why he had
to go along? Why is it that you know
to yourself that there is incompetence
Mr. Chief Minister and you actually
have taken yourself, your own .

Mr. PRESIDENT: Please address the
HON. H. F. YOUNG: Thank you Mr.
President. And you actually took on
your own wife Mr. President, I am
speaking about the Chief Minister. He
took upon himself his own wife, rape
the constituency of North Windward
and Mr. President today it has reached
to a question-not in the days when we
had to fight the Administrator-it is
easy to burn a building but it is hard
to build. Today when the yokes of Colo-
nialism have gone and we become inde-
pendent we have to plan for our people.
Can the Minister for Social Services
plan-nought from nought? Do we put
ordinary people to teach in our schools?
Mr. President don't we train doctors to
attend to our people? And above all
the highest office in our stage, ignorance
and incompetence exist. So I go on to
read this manifesto:
"The people of St. Vincent must be
kept fully informed at all times of
Government's policy and be given time
to express their views on proposed
"The more extensive use of fhe
medium of radio" etc.....
My friend the Member for Kingstown
spoke about motion. Mr. President this
is a Hansard for 1956 the early days
when my friend was on this side of the
Table. This motion was moved and it
"Be it resolved that this Govern-
ment considers the advisability of in-
stituting a system of transportation to
accommodate students, school child-
ren, teachers to and fro from various
parts of the country."
At that time, 1954 to 1956 my honest or
dishonest Chief Minister was on this
side. The Chief Minister has been in
power now Mr. President for three years.
That motion I have just read was backed
by me and was carried unanimously in
this House. Has he instituted that bus
service yet for these unfortunate child-
ren? You see the girls under the gallery
there, sometimes at Barrouallie they are

left to the mercy of Tiberius, you meet
them walking, going up the road. This
is what I am trying to show when he
was here, this motion was moved and
was carried. Now he had the reign to
put it into operation, he has forgotten
it. Isn't that incompetence? It is in
this book and it was carried and every-
one of us including the Nominated Mem-
bers thought it was a wise motion. A
motion was moved some time ago by me
here for adult education. Mr. President,
the Chief Minister amended it to make
it appear as if it was his motion. We
agreed to the amendment, it was carried
nem con. Where is the adult educa-
tion? No adult education would affect
the Chief Minister Mr. President because
the more ignorant he leaves our people,
the more he can fool them. It is a sin
when I am quoting on the question of
what has been done by the Chief Minis-
ter and his party. I have nothing
against the Ministers, I have absolutely
nothing against any one of them. I am
not here personally to say because I know
he is a dictator and I know what he has
promised in the market. Up to now Mr.
President three years and there is still
cursing-Baynes, Rudolph Baynes-if
our people in St. Vincent knew-he
couldn't speak in Trinidad, the respon-
sibility of a Chief Minister now that the
powers are handed down locally unto
him and now for three years he is still
cursing people-Hermon Young he is
Tell us what are you going to do, tell
us what plan you have. In my hand
here (I don't believe the Chief Minister
even has one) this "Original Research, a
Soil Survey of the entire St. Vincent".
To show you Gentlemen, Mr. Chief Min-
ister, Mr. President what type of fertili-
zer having tested the soil, to show you
what machinery can be used, what crops
can grow in certain soil to increase the
production. He spoke a while about
C.D.C., thanks to the "green gold"
banana. What has he done yet with the
Agricultural Department? Where is the
Team of Survey's recommendation to do
something, if even it is pineapple, even if
it is sisal on the ridge, even if it is Julie
mangoes. There is a lot of oranges in
the Grenadines, that is what I am speak-

ing about. The Chief Minister Mr.
President went on to say, let me continue
because I know: Road programme,
school programme-every honest man
around this Table who was in the Legis-
lative Council from 1951 including the
Chief Minister himself and if you look
at that picture ltehind there you would
see them. The road programme, the
airport, the harbour scheme, the tele-
phone, were planned by the former
Government. The Minister for Commu-
nications and Werks there knows it, the
blueprint, the man came from England
and you Mr. President know it too well
and I take it if it is not so I would walk
out of this Chamber and ask you to take
my seat and I won't speak again. All
that the Chief Minister has done in the
P.P.P is to carry out what we have left
off. And there is the Minister for Com-
munications and Works he knows -that
we actually started the Road Programme
and you had priority Mr. President, and
after the election and P.P.P went into
power naturally you couldn't do roads
but all were mapped out. What they
have done is this, and I am not going to
be vexed with them, what they have
done with the road programme Mr.
President is to swop some of the money
that was for certain roads and put it to
their area. But I am broad minded to
say that is alright because it is still the
people that they are serving, it is still
St. Vincent, they only made a swop from
'Road X' to 'Road Y'. The school pro-
gramme started, that school up there Mr.
President was built was recommended by
"Sir Rudy" whom you call "Sir Rudy" in
the market. It was a joy to open it.
The bath up there and the little place
that Mr. R. T. Samuel-I know it was
constructed and recommended by Mr.
Rudolph Baynes-that Richmond Hill
School and so it is with Clare Valley and
Camden Park and when Mr. President I
hear that they are having, functions for
bath at Edinboro let me tell you Sir,
that now bath is a thing that I built-
Questelles Clare Valley I mean for years
now you can get your bath and if it is
only now the Chief Minister will wake up
to put a bath well God have mercy on
the other parts of St. Vincent. Bath, if
you go to Clare Valley you would find

one, you would find one at Camden Park,
you would find one at No. 8 Penniston,
years old, forgotten. At a time for plan-
ning, at a time for development, at a time
when it is a question of becoming a
nation when ordinarily your grant in aid
would have to stop, the Chief Minister
for St. Vincent is telling me about Road
and the airstrip, and some little East
Indian fellow come here the other day
from D.L.P and said they should call it
"Joshua Airstrip". The Chief Minister
doesn't know a thing about that. Mr.
President it is an honest statement the
money for that airport was tied up with
Dominica money and during the time
that we were in conference at Trinidad
and the S. F. C. Baron was very agile
and Baron was very choosy, Baron went
up to the Secretary of State and if it
wasn't for Baron the money won't be
released because St. Vincent was just
playing and the airport was actually
planned before the P.P.P. came to power.
The P.P.P. has not even planted nuts or
something or the other I don't know what
they have done. And I would go on with
the manifesto the manifesto promised
the people of St. Vincent a lot of things.
"The Land-A prosperous and pro-
gressive agriculture is essential to the
well-being of St. Vincent and her
dependencies." "P. P. P. Agricultural
Well I have known many agricultural
departments, they have put up schemes
praise be to God, I see the cocoa scheme
is going to nothing now. Everything
that this P.P.P. Government handles Mr.
President is like what the old people
said "goat bite, whatever goat bites it is
dead." Now the scheme is going to
Antigua, nobody will get up and fight.
Antigua is a dry place, and as far as my
agricultural knowledge is concerned it
is unsuitable for cocoa, but they have
taken it away from St. Vincent. I heard
that the Member for the Grenadines
sometime ago begged here for citrus
plants-I don't even know if it was im-
plemented. I heard a motion passed
some time ago to help the people of the
Grenadines to build tanks to get water,

I wonder if they have started to build
any yet. Mr. President, I am here for
personalities, I am here to show what
the P.P.P. has done for St. Vincent and
all this fooling about the road going on,
it is only a question of time the road
will continue to go on, roads must be
done to get employment and to get our
crops out. What is going to happen to
our young girls and boys? Where is the
Trade and Farm school? Where is the
Trade and Farm school that I actually
had here scme years ago for the unfor-
tunate boys and girls who leave school
in Standard 3 and Standard 4 at the age
of 15 who cannot attain Standard 6,
who are left on the roads? What has
become of that? A socialist Govern-
ment, but Mr. President speaking on this
particular motion if we know here the
connection with D.L.P. whilst the Chief
Minister preaches here and the poor
people believe that we are connected
with the big boys in Trinidad-the big
boys who in the D.L.P. are the big boys
. . .. told me when he came
down to see me on Sunday at Layou they
have to come down and see me and what
he divulged, it is not political etiquette
to tell you here, I shall do so in the
market square one of these nights, I
would not tell you around here. The
big boys the D.L.P. is a conservative
party in England against labour. So
whilst they preach one thing here and
our poor people swallow it, they are
playing with all the big boys in Trinidad,
"Busta" and all of them anti-Federa-
tionalists, anti-socialism, and the big
East Indian boys who are rivalling Eric
Williams when he landed in Trinidad, I
would tell you something. It is a pity
that our people........ but one day I am
going to tell them and they have to lis-
ten Mr. President because it is the truth
and the truth would stand up as night
follows day. Mr. President since we
move this motion for the overthrow of
this Government I see some sad faces
there, I see men who belong to this
P.P.P. who are actually just towing the
line on principle, internal corruption.
Mr. President I just heard, I don't know
if it is true, there again a Russell deal.
Once it was the Youth Centre, we clamp
down on Youth Centre, now you are

going to put a theatre right in the heart,
near to your nurses, a theatre in the
zone of the hospital. Mr. President a
place that I know that Lisle Fraser had
bought where that laundry is, and I
happened to be the Chairman of the
Central Housing and Planning and they
gave Lisle Fraser back his money and
said that he couldn't build there when
he bought from the old original estate
because that place was earmarked for
hospital etc. That man was given back
his money probably up to how he can-
not build a house. The laundry for the
hospital was put there. But that isn't
all, you have just spent over $20,000 to
build a doctors residence next door. By
all means let Mr. Russell have his theatre
but not in the precincts of the hospital.
People are on the floor now, they can't
get beds why not put a children's ward
up there'and turn the children's ward
into a ward for bigger people. What is
all this confusion with Russell and
P.P.P.? Where is all this money with
Russell and P.P.P., so that Russell must
get Government lands? Buy private
lands if he wants. Just now this P.P.P.
will allow Russell to take our market.
When you find out my boy when the
light shines you are going to run. Mr.
President if you are going to let a theatre
go near to your nurses, they are young al-
ready and sometimes when they are to go
on their duty to attend to our sick, they
might be tempted to go to the treatre.
I wonder if you know what are we going
to do, we know our young people. By all
means Mr. Russell for that matter if you
want to give him some place give him
the ginnery but not near to the hospital.
And theatre is not a necessity, you have
one already, what monopoly it isn't a
school or a factory to teach our girls ,n4d
boys something, it is something that
takes the little they have from them
because they sometimes steal from their
parents, and the theatre teaches them
vices too, for that matter because there
are no good film censor in St. Vincent,
films that they ban somewhere else
can be shown here, and you are going to
tell me about a Government who stand
up to argue why, you should not .......
some of you men know that tomorrow

you die and the regard and the respect
you would walk out of this Council
Chamber, walk out of here before this
voting take place because beware of the
handwriting on the wall because you
know you are only aiding and abetting
corruption because you cannot help and
I think you are still playing a good part
for St. Vincent. But none of you can
stand up here and tell me........
Mr. PRESIDENT: Please address the
HON. H. F. YOUNG: Mr. President, we
might have to go breakfast, this whole
manifesto here and I have to go through
it. Mr. President, Mr. Campbell or the
Honourable Member for Kingstown, the
attacks on Mr. Campbell and what Mr.
Campbell did to move this motion. Mr.
Campbell alone didn't move this motion
but it takes some of us. Mr. Campbell,
Young or Latham could have moved the
motion. Do not bother to attack Mr.
Campbell, attack all of us here in the
Opposition. Mr. President look what it
has cost him in fairness to my friend he
reminds me of Fidel Castro with his
beard. Let me tell you what it has cost
this country. Mr. President I know he
is not one any how I am only speaking
about resemblance. Mr. President look
what it has cost this country-this man
is a sick man he has gone on leave, we
had an acting Minister, fair enough, he
has come over from the Grenadines to
act; but today with a motion like this he
was forced to come out and he is not
well. He was forced to come out to save
the issue at stake, and even though he
knows it is corrupted but on principle
being a decent man well trained and
brought up, he has principle. The man
is supposed to be somewhere in the
Crenadines on holidays, he is not well,
and you see he has started to grow a
beard, Mr. President, and in growing that
beard I don't know if it is for election or
his face is a bit tender but I know he is
a sick man, he is my friend look what it
is costing this country from corruption,
look what it is costing this country from
incompetence, it looks to us now that he
is not sick Mr. President. It looks to us
now in the Opposition that all he is try-
ing to do is to give his friend a chance

to make a few hundred dollars and while
this country cannot afford to be paying
two Ministers, that is how it looks to us.
But I hate to know that because I know
that you are my friend and I take it for
granted that you are sick.

Mr. PRESIDENT: The Honourable Mem-
ber must not impute improper motives.

HON. H. F. YOUNG: Thank you Mr.
President. The Honourable Chief Min-
ister spoke about money and the Hon-
ourable Chief Minister spoke about
dishonesty and the Honourable Chief
Minister went on to say all kinds of
things, and the Honourable Chief Min-
ister says in the market "Samuel Eric
Slater, a good man, Samuel Slater a
traitor." "Hermon Fraser Young, a dis-
honest man, Herman Fraser Young, a
great fellow." "Brother Campbell the
Nkrumah of my party." Mr. Presi-
dent, and the Chief Minister went on
"Sir Rudy" and all sorts of things. Who
is this Christ? Who is this honest man
that he himself and everybody could be
so right because they can talk to him?
When you ask yourself the question if all
of us are wrong, who is this Jesus? And
there was once Thomas, I wonder if my
friend knows that part of the scriptures
who actually wanted to touch the side
to see. The same deeds and the same
thoughts that you were expressing here,
the same malice and corruption that
you preach. Mr. President, that the
Chief Minister preaches, the time has
come for that to stop, the time has come
for us to say what are we doing for
those young ones who are out of school?
I am not saying you have enough money
to build a school, take some of your
churches for that matter, some of your
shouter churches, take of the Society
lodges take the little boys off the street,
do something so that tomorrow when
they grow up they may have something
in their heads. But you are cursing all
the time in the market, they are not
joining hands with you because what we
do today lives after us. There are several
other men whose lives ,were greater than
,yoU or me a-d greatness only lies in
hamlflm n t- a-d serenity. Greatfess
dmy rtr in -.mpaihet, anad Christian

feelings, greatness doesn't lie in bigotry
you saw what happened to Mussolini
some time ago, he was hung in the
Market Square, he hadn't even the
burial of a humble peasant. There are
men like Dentistone, men who live dur-
ing the time of Livingstone but they are
dead and Livingstone is still alive be-
cause Livingstone lived for a purpose,
and if you believe that I am not living
fori a purpose you are mistaken, because
I could have been over there with the
wolves and I could say it bravely in St.
Vincent and I refused the bribes up to
midnight when Russell came your
friend Russell-(Mr. President that is
not you) when mid-night Old Year's
night Mr. Russell knocked at my home a
dog barked; he came to offer me bribes
to come over there in January. I am
sorry- to see my friend from the Grena-
dines walked over. I do not say he has
accepted any bribes, I will not say that;
I believe he had the Grenadines at heart.
I refused it, and Mr. President I can tell
the Chief Minister that having refused
it I am twice the man today, my con-
science is clear because my service has
gone to my people already, it is a proving
ground and we will fight it out politically
and constitutionally and if I die in the
act of fighting I die a natural death with
my boots on, because tomorrow we have
to die and I am 46 years of age and I
cannot lie any more. Mr. President
which of us can say we have no sins,
which of us? Do you remember the
woman of Samaria, Mr. President, when
they went to stone her and He turned
round and said which of you without sin
cast the first stone. Which of you in the
Government here, we are humble people
we are human beings, could not take
advice for the benefit of our country?
Which of us is too big to be humble and
to be a servant for the betterment of our
people? That is the point. Mr. Presi-
dent you have the example of the great-
est man who ever lived who walked and
humbled Himself and washed His dis-
ciples feet. But as soon as some of you
get into power from the same people you
turn against those same people. I am
soon going to ask a questions in 4t S98
month what it costs to fu fifth tHtI niftL-
. boro Home in 'detail fro i a p]i, Ai

detail what it costs to furnish the Chief
Minister's House.

When you are talking about Socialism
and when you talk about sincere leader,
you have to take your hat off to men like
Ghandy, men who devote themselves,
men like Roosevelt, not men whom as
soon as they get somewhere suck the
little that they haven't got from them.
Men who make sacrifice for the benefit
of the masses. Mr. President not too
long ago Comrade had no use for motor
cars, he rides bicycle, this is a censure
motion. Comrade didn't go to Govern-
ment House, the people didn't tell him
to go. That was in 1951. Ah! Comrade
Ides of March has come but not yet gone.
Caesar used those words and he said
"et tu Brute"-And thou also Brutus.
Mr. President, we have a marketing
scheme a Marketing Board formed under
this present P.P.P. recommended by us
in the former Government. I had the
pleasure of visiting Trinidad, I met men
who interviewed the Chief Minister in
Trinidad, I wonder if the Government
know what is happening to our market-
ing of potatoes? Whilst our Marketing
Board on this side is good I think the
Honourable Member for the Grenadines
would know a little about it because he
used to go backward and forward.
Standing here I want to tell you that I
know it because I used to do that busi-
ness in Trinidad, and. I know the men
and I know what is happening-a firm
is making over $800 per week out of us.
Speculators in Trinidad are buying
potatoes from that firm and sell to the
consumer, therefore the marketing board
was formed to assist the people who grow
potatoes and what you find, $18 per
bag is being sold in Trinidad and they
are just getting $9 the whole policy is
gone to pieces. Sometimes in the mar-
ket 10% I saw the bill myself-Kendell
& Co. is paid, that they are paid 10% to
market our potatoes and that is a tidy
$800 per week. The second point of it is
that people are buying there and re-sell.
Incompetence-I am only proving incom-
petence. Your Government here is not
studying. Let us assume the differential
between 5 cents and 12 cents dottt yoU
see that the farmer, the man who ftlue

his-land would -have-get about 6 or eight
cents for his potatoes This'is nothing
against the Government- because it is
just formed, but-oremedy tit t is: for you
to remedytitand44see the acting Minis-
ter, he should come in and give some
more details because I am speaking here
I cannot' tell all. There are somethings
that mean so muichto our country.: You
stop the poor speculators but you allow
the Trinidad speculators to get'ahead
of the marketing board. 'Forgtivethem
O Lord they3know-not what,-they have
done.' Incompetence; ignorance, that is
all it is; andithat is thousands of dollars
to our country Whereasithe Marketing
Board was formed with aD.f 'W money
and you stop: your pbor Vineentian
speculators when ordinarily the growers
are fleeced by "another set of'speculators
in TrinidatdY Mr. Presldnttletag"pu&ely
agricultural theselare-the things Iwant
to bSing to the'-attention of thlSObvern-
ment. We. have lands--Ootk at what
just happened at- RinndmL thwOmetf
Minitser himself said--white- elephant.
You just seatwdovmrMr.: Ickhart there
now, two overseers-, one has been fired
whether it ist for. poltles or not. Lbok
at: the lands at-Caml Farks loeloat the
lands at' Canduasr owned- by this- GeV-
ernment. Look at the boys -and girls on
the roads you only'tee to g&in lnote
village. When 1-say Layeu tIam :spbak-
ing about Layout Ir am *- & West Indtn
now, yout go to Georgetwnt yet'g& to
anywhere-dwithe a- mas ia ,as hlmant-
tarian it does nottmatterrwl-v if eften a
Russian child is-hungry Ihe'gtesi-t bread.
You meet children all aAbut' knecklig
around; wh athas. tMis- G&venmTent' In-
stituted? In- our- f6rnme' Government.
we sent awayaWmanM to BIrbadoso all-over
has its Modem SeBohtlry SdBlbol; let
me suggest something t you--Camden
Park, with so ranch lands the Ibys and
girls could' have- gbneu there aftd learn
better methods of farntng, learnto fish
properly; develop -agriculture, their' when
you' train then they actftlly i teome
self producing, the 'excess could bi sold
to our people in Kingstown, and' then
they leave at a certain agr-and tome-out
of the comamrl'* a gdW *lngt2K. What
has P.P.P. t dmzr-F Wnal fti-
thbng but a tW et^hc fri-- tnlrih

pocket. ,Mr. President if we watch the
entire P.P.P. Government for the three
years,.lit is nothing but a trading com-
pany-pounds, ahillitgs and pence wrap-
ped into one home and the balance of
St. Vincent gone to pieces. Iram saying
so because people put Rme here and I
cannot be charged for libel or anything
here more than toirespect the Chair. In
one short ,five ;years when someone
knows, I -hppen to attend all the meet-
ings. When I go to Trinidad and hear
people tell me what .has become ;of St.
Vincent. Trinidad is the headquarters,
Mr. President, let us *face facts that is
why we -have diplomats as you would
know Sir, you got to be diplomatic if
you are representing peolpe. "You go
there and you meet men like Williams
and others who can -help us 'with our
pigs but you-still go to Sanr Fernando to
curse them. .You are, the 'Leader of a
country but because you .happen -to be
in another party you 'are going to an-
tagonize Mr. President- the -people who
are -in power, your federal -Government
the only island -in-the Opposition is St.
Vincent, and when I-go'there and hear
these things I hang -my head down in
shame. 'We have-our-peeple in St. Vin-
cent with their pigs and-cannot get sale,
one-word -with 'Mr. O'Halloran -don't be
too ;ig, -your ,Chief "Minister doesn't
meananything -uiless you can serve, a
doctor is a proeslaonAl -man:but he can
save-a- life;, andifa -tank has 100 gallons
of -witer and -it -doesn't give 'It out it
breeds -mosquiltoes, it 'then becomes a
threat for4tielth -instead of saving your
life. Mr. President, -plenity quaotation-
"Oonstitutionmtl 'Reform -in 'the -West
Indies- by 'the 'Honourable 'E. T. Joshua,
Chief Ifinister'." 'Tfis -is a 'Government
paper; t is Is ndotthe Vincentian by the
"It is (oleazly stated -in our pro-
gmmne -nd-Mantfesto terminating in
an .lptlon in' 157, in lWhich P.P.P.
was -returned 'to- power, in the- very
first paragraph, that the Constitution,
that' s,, -the one we >were subject to
before 1950, aws unsuitable, to -the age.
We rA~ected it <4fom the very outstart.
We PiP.P.-ips-rosed ,to operate it but

sought to fight for amendments of it,
making such constitutional changes
as to make democratic parliamentary
life more enduring in this enlightened
age. The next step will be full inter-
nal self-Government."
That is lovely, well written. And still we
see having done that and the only way
to get a' better constitution in St. Vin-
cent is to go back to the polls to our
people and we see the same Chief Minis-
ter who has written this trying to stop
it saying (I don't like to use the word
here) "No God damn election until 1962."
But he tells you, Mr. President-those
are his words not mine-he tells you
that in order to have a good democracy
the P.P.P. advocated constitutional
changes. And in the same breath he is
saying that you cannot get the former
constitutional changes even now until
the Government in power, go to the polls
and you find the same Government in
power, were it not for the Opposition,
were it not for us going to see the
Colonial Secretary, now we are going to
have an election early next year. But
the P.P.P. manager and its boss wrote
this. You see if our people were read-
ing they would condemn this man long
time I wouldn't have so much trouble.
If our people knew what was going on,
Mr. 'President, I wouldn't have so much
trouble, but you see Mr: President men
with faith, as we always say the truth
will stand. I go on to quote him again-
"These territories acknowledged to
be the largest of the Federation is
superficial area, Trade, Commerce and
...... "The constitution of the Lee-
ward and Windward Islands are still
far behind ........ "
And Mr. President you all know too well
that the only way we can get a further
constitution, (and the Honourable Mem-
ber for Kingstown knows it too well too,
because he is constitutionally minded)
is to go to the polls, get this one as soon
as possible, and then get another one.
And if we didn't go to the polls for in-
stance Sir, you have no right to be sitting
in that Chair now, you are wearing two
hats-you are representing Her Majesty
the Queen in this country with powers

vested in the hands of the Governor and
at the same time have to be around
here as President of the Legislative
Council, it is not democratic, it is not
constitutionally right. Then if the
minority has something to appeal to you
and you have to use your reserve powers
you already know the whole story about
it already. This is a fact I see you bow-
ing and your Chief Minister wants to
stop election. These are things that
some of us know. The powers that are
vested in you now Sir, are what the
Governor had, and what right have you
to be sitting in that Chair now Sir?
The Chief Minister is keeping back the
hands of the clock and going in the
market and fooling people. By all
means if he goes to the polls let the
people return him, but do what is right.
And when you have men like that Mr.
President you are going to tell me about
policy. Who dare those honest words to
come from your lips-honesty or dis-
honesty I don't know. Mr. President
"The Proper Nutrition of the People"
P.P.P. advocates a vigorous means in
fostering the production of food for
local consumption. It is one of these
things that corruption breathes corrup-
tion. Even the little milk that used to
be given by U.N.I.C.E.F. since the Gov-
ernment came into power has stopped.
The poor children used to be so glad for
it. Mr. President do you know how
many of them when their mothers are
working in the field-some of these
people don't know it appears as they
were born big-but I want to tell this
Government Mr. President that I am
representing where I was born, whom I
pitched marbles with, whom I live with
up to now and if I was not kind and
doing things for them they would know
more than anybody else, and it is since
1951 and I have not risen above them
yet I still live among them and expect
to still live especially when you have a
Government like this one. Mr. Presi-
dent, Honourable Members,
"The Party will carry out an exten-
sive programme of public works for
the relief of unemployment . "

And I want the present Minister for
Communications and Works not to pay
any heed to this and for him to believe
that it is his fault because in any case
a man is responsible for his servant to
a point if the servant is under age, it is
a question of masters and servants act.
Mr. President the corruption that took
place at the Arnos Vale airport as a
Member of the Opposition and rightly
who can take it up, the cars that have
been bought, the corruption of the con-
tract under this P.P.P. GovernmenG if I
table a motion here you yourself by
virtue of your responsibitt will have
to call for a Commission of enquiry.
The money that was wasted away into
corruption three men bought cars that
were once the road drivers. When I
make a statement I hope thC Minister
that is why I said I don't want to bray
because I came in late on it, but I was
in a place where I was told from higher
up of men who fired in this Government
for stealing and agreeing to bribes are
working on the airport to catch votes.
The thousands that go down in that
drain is a sin then if the police had a
detective squad like Trinidad they could
take their own investigations and I am
making a statement that is going in the
Hansard of St. Vincent and similar, Mr.
President the corner is cutting and bear-
ing no walls and similar to votes that is
cut in our estimates badly spent in order
for vote catching. Honesty, dishonesty
-Mr. President when my friend moved
this motion we didn't get up here idly,
we have facts, and. Mr. President we
know too well getting back to this oil
business, that there are a few pet boys
running business here getting oil from
Holland and all those places off duty for
making money and no wonder the gin-
nery would not be built back Mr. Presi-
dent, and these are things we have to
get down to. Look at the hundreds of
girls in Kingstown who used to be em-
ployed, we are hoping for industry to
come in and a few men are getting
credit from the banks and taking oils
from away. When would our ginnery be
built back with a Government like this
who is carrying on deals with Reddock
and Russell etc. Mr. President we only

have to look at our schools. As I spoke
already about the farm schools I am
very sad that we haven't got it, but I
hope when we get into power next year
we would put it down right away. They
need to be swept out and Mr. President
if these people are honest or if they
have some degree of decency or respect
for character and for country they would
all walk with their heads down right
out side here and let you form an
Interim Government, don't even worry
to put us but nominate an Interim Gov-
ernment. We only got to know about
our secondary schools, all the teachers
are leaving us. Doctors are complain-
ing how can we sit under a Social Ser-
vices Ministry that cannot understand
us. All our men are leaving us, teachers
are getting fed up, 6 boys left here, we
have to pay but the children cannot get
masters to teach them. Where are they
going to? People in St. Vincent do not
know where we are going to. All they hear
is blare, comes, and curse somebody,
go down and talk somebody while a
whole set of water is passing under
the bridge. We only got to watch
out and see, look at our police force,
look at the boys who are being
trained, it is the Executive Council force,
send them to Barbados, waste money
when thy come back they won't remain,
Why? Today a policeman is not what
he used to be before, prevention of crime
is important, it isn't the burly policeman
now that counts, it is the man who can
carry out law and who can prevent the
breaking of the law, not just the man
who could lock up. And you find the
Agricultural Department and you find
other departments having cars and you
find them having entertainment allow-
ances et al but the poor police man has
the same salary. When he is put at
Barrouallie he can't even rear chickens
because he doesn't know tomorrow if he
may be transferred and sent to Mesopo-
tamia. He really doesn't know what to
do. He has his wife he has to leave, he
can hardly rent a home, and by all
means even in the high class even in
London you have to have them, as I said
prevention, they are our people, they are

our friend. What is happening all the
cream of the fellows are leaving just
now you will have to have officers with-
out men and the younger chaps they are
taking now, they will take some time to
train. That should be looked into, but
the Government has no time to look into
it. If they are going outside they have
to sign a little book, if they are going
in the W.C., they have to sign a little
book. It is time for the method to
change. It is time for it to stop being a
military organisation and be a police
force. They can't even leave to go and
see their wife a little bit somebody else
come. The job is too boring for the men
and they are finding other work. The
whole method wants to be changed be-
cause you are loosing the cream and
Government is losing money. What is
the use of all this training in Barbados
and when they come back here they
can't stick it. When he comes off he
can't even have a drink with a friend
There is no society in these country dis-
tricts, what is wrong with that. If a
friend is at the back of his place and
offers him a drink and he accepts the
poor fellow, he is charged. Why ordi-
narily it is a social life. Oh no, you don't
understand what I am trying to say. I
am saying right now, it is so and he
has to carry it out, but it should be
changed, and the job is becoming so
difficult that the boys are leaving and
going to Insurance and all kinds of
things and after a while we will wake
up and find our whole place in trouble.
Maybe you can't understand what I am
saying. Mr. President what I am say-
ing is that Government things are going
on and they are not listening, they are
not studying. I was once a member of
the Government, what they are study-
ing-theatre from Youth Centre land to
hospital land; My God it is too glaring,
it is immoral, it is impolite, it is not
decent for a man like that all the time
looking for Government property to put
theatre, and P.P.P. just contriving all
the time to give him. Well then we have
to march the sick and the nurses and
demonstrate that must not be a theatre.
You are going to corrupt your nurses you

arWgoing toioorrupt therarea where you
just-tbuilt a.doator's home, that doctor
mightahave-a wife and children and can't
even. slep and you.,are.going to tell me
that jyou are a paternal government for
some lucre .,ilver, -some 'Shylock' who
wants toget.,rich, atthe detriment of the
people ofLthis*aountry. Then you your-
selfLir, your term would.not be well spent
if you don't use your reserve powers, and
stop that cinema, going to take hospital
area. .acrea ed salaries, Public Works
footmen, drivers haufteurs, hospital at-
tendant, Gustoms Clerks,.-risons officers,
all-Aheselhaps .who areinot on the books
andmwhotre not taken, care of by pen-
sion I thought ,that a Government like
that which.bragged to-. be sympathetic
towards 4he masses would have seen fit
toswonrk.qut some scheme of insurance, or
some. prvidentlfund -for these unfortu-
nate :other oWil servants who have
chSdren too-,or whom.Ahe cost of living
has-one tup. But -we see -with a magic
wand in .January .the estimates from
$500 Ato $900. -By all means I am not
condemning the Ministers salaries, if
you ,pay $900 and get some results
it is -all right. When you pay $900
plus $725 and don't get any results
at.,ll, and'iwhen you 'carry $725 for five
years let's calculate 't and you see what
you-have done-to the country. Men from
the United Nations, Environmental sani-
tation,'W~'HO. come here to discuss pro-
gramme- When they reach'to discuss with
th dMiluntry 6f Social Services 'the Oppo-
sittofr has'to talk to'them. "Ah walk stick,
ahwalk stick". All those things those
people don't want'to know, they want to
meet. a Minister who is capable of meet-
ingpeople lrom away. "We are not self-
supporting, and when I see some of my
peQple. it -.own and clap if we don't try
you. get .accustomed to it, 'Mr. President
and after you get accustomed to it, it
becomes 'like -a natural thing and God
ha.e.mexry on our souls. Let us assume
that the .EeAeral Minister-they have
at .the ed.eral Office what they call a
team of technical .experts, Mr. President
and that.is to help these, smaller terri-
tories especially who can't pay for tech-
nical .staff-not so much Trinidad and
Jamaica, and this technical adviser, edu-

national and otherwise, visit St. Vincent
to meet the appropriate Minister to dis-
cuss a new system of education not only
for St. Vincent but for the ten territories.
The idea is that a civil servant leaving
St. Vincent with his child in third staid-
ard and going to Antigua that child will
meet the same curriculum and have a
unified pattern. Who is he going to dis-
cuss with? McKie who hans't got -the
power and then when McKie the Prin-
ciple Secretary does his-job the person
would say he is humbugging us. Mr.
President we go forward and we find'the
Chief Medical Officer wants some scheme
which is true. At a time like this every
Minister and every man sitting around
this table who went to the polls in 1951
and asked the people for their votes,
should be honest enough to know when
the time comes to search himself and
see if he should back down, if he can
reach to the standard. Let me see if I
can explain that to you, you start to
teach in school and you start at the ABC
class and I don't believe I can reach
further teaching now than the fourth
standard, would it be fair to me to stand
before Sixth Standard class and say that
I am teaching and draw money and the
child himself can teach me, what would
I be doing to 50 or 60 children, drawing
some salary to their own detriment? It
is honest to say from Crown Colony and
from all Crown Colony Government
when the Administrator had full powers
and we were just advisers and appealers
and advocators and probably rabble-
rousers. It was alright because the
Administrator has wisdom and knowing
parliamentary procedure and having
been trained and would like to do some-
thing for the country would listen to
both sides and he would direct his Public
Works but not that the position is
changed the man should be big enough
to say we have reached to a stop which
I believe let me call in my friend with a
better education to carry my people for-
ward. But what you find, you find me
going back into a lower depth because
of what you call parasitic movements
because of the few hundred dollars to It
that even when men sitting around this
table with you they can't even under-

stand you, and you coming and talking
say you represent people.
Mr. PltSIDENT: Please address the
HON. H. F. YOUNG: Mr. President I
have,.no intention Sir, not to address the
Chair, but I am speaking very long,
please accept my apology. Mr. Presi-
dent I would go on to say that there are
two. phases of life meeting us in these
parts and sometimes we are a little
shallow and there are more personalities
than parties in these parts. There are
more personalities than the fundamental
issue. There is more question of a fellow
against the other and forgetting the
people than for all of us to bury the
hatchet and work towards the good of
the people. But we have a bigger issue
to fight, that is the East versus West,
and we have- seen what has just taken
place- in Cuba and as we sit down here
some of us are going to knock our teeth
if: we don't fall in line. We have an
issue of Christ against the devil to fight
and Mr. President I am going to express
it here-that I prefer to die shot a true
British democrat than to get thousands
of pounds from a Communist. And that
is what I am fighting for on this side of
the table. I am not fighting Tannis or
Slater, or Young or Haynes......
Mr. PRESIDENT: The Honourable Mem-
ber must refer to Members of this House
by their title.
HON. H. F. YOUNG: I would sit down
at me I can hear it.
Mr. PRESIDENT: The Honourable Mem-
ber must sit down.
HON. H. F. YOUNG: I would sit down
now but I was bawled at.
Mr. PRESIDENT: The Honourable Mem-
ber must resume his seat. the moment
I. stand, he must not loose his head, he
must not be impertinent to the Chair.
HOW. H. F. YOUNG: You also Sir, must
not be impertinent to the representative
of the people.
Mr. PRESIDENT: The- Honourable Mem-
ber must sit down once again.- I would
skATd for no more of this, if I have any

more cross talk, I would nameAtlh Hn-
ourable Member.
HON. H. F. YOUNG: That- is- alright.
Mr. PRESzENT: Very -well.
HON. H. F. YOUNG! I would gOi On.
Yes Mr. President, it seems to' me that
we have been touching onL. a pohitt and
this Communist infestation in the West
Indies is a great things, and. mewn, axe
going to sell their-people, aadithetr seals
to allow this doctrine because' .ofwhat
they are offering. I am- speaking here
as a representative of the people -here
Mr. President, it has- reached to: that
level right now from Cukbato JAmaleato
Trinidad right around thereslesatellites
in every country-and whensoeas otvus
believe we are, here repesentirtag our
people we are serving the, masters a of
Communtsnw The. President' spoken a
while ago;, I am not: afraid::ofwhahthle
said he had his constitutienalzights'rJt
every- President has to ,be elestiev'ewmy
President:today-whern a&man ds-speaktag
on behalf of'his country, espeetallyrwio)
is not a Communist has a rigt-, to
behave and" espectally-anwissuetlkie: this.
I am not disrespecting htma and, it is
time...... I' am nor little bby; standing
around here-and I:am going tolexpress
myself until my- term isW upp. and itW is
only sir- more menths-t a it'wwoutdtbie
nice to be named-now, and restgnriar* go
back to people- and" say why. Yes tMr.
President it seems-- to: me- that certain
things hurt because IlTar man-rsits asw ou
are sitting inr the -EeeuiterIe aCumeasiand
see these swapping of lais': that Is so
vital to our-people, then ehawto.stuaty
yourself whether you: should stop' it or
not, andidon't allow-theOpppsition to' dp
it. Manley,- Eric W4iTamssand all.,these
chaps, Mr. President Baaonr and-'Btee
in Grenada--Blante. as justt, studied a
scheme to borrow $5vmil, ib. Blatie hss
sent away, Mr, President a member ffoem
Grenada to Antigua, I'metI himthere'tb
view the beaches under thbe-,dvelopmert
of tourist. What" has this Government
done yet? Baron' has" called' in- tIhe
Development team because- he-said'-ouri-t
cillors don't kfoww-everythf girwhy 'eatet
you be manilyr and say tfikt'we;''ddt
know, call int at 'e rt,.ah.i tahtu

on the street whom you think knows and
say let us form a plan, as I said no
personalities. I think the Member for
the Grenadines would agree with me on
that point. Baron has done it, Blaize
has done it. What has the Leader of
this P.P.P. Government done more than
to ridicule in the market continual ridi-
cule and if I open this Hansard book
here, Mr. President he would shut his
mouth when he was ridiculing during
the strike at Mt. Bentinck. It is in this
and the amount of words that he used
and the people he challenged, Clavier
Hughes and all these things in here and
this wicked policeman and Administra-
tor in here-but I would not worry to
read it those are facts. But having
passed that I am asking what is he going
to do for his country that is all I am
saying. Then we get back this educa-
tion, this agriculture. Mr. President we
have seen that a lot of dictatorship
taking place here. As the Member for
Kingstown said sometimes things are
being done. We have seen that the
Superintendent of Public Works resigned
-a place of thousands and thousands of
dollars, he resigned and the Roads En-
gineer has to act and the Minister knows
very well I am not speaking against
him I hope he understands, and they
hadn't the decency to advertise in the
Gazette, the St. Vincent newspaper did
not carry any advertisement only to find
out that the Superintendent of Public
Works was handpicked already. It was
advertised in Trinidad, it was advertised
in Grenada and your own boys, the sons
of the soil hadn't any until they caught
themselves and they back-dated it and
put it in our Gazette when the man is
already picked. That is the type of
Government you have going on in the
place with a full-fledged Government.
We have seen the Crown Attorney moved
out-of here, only this morning I found
out. The highest advocate for it was
me, and even when I came back from
Antigua not a notice, nobody knew
about it, you might still have people
coming up here. I just tore down a
loieeb of paper from off his window. As
gfirlple *i that is I didn't even know
a%, iitoteff m Ulr fitil I Ctrae i flHtUM

this morning and for years I advocated
that that should be a lobby of the Coun-
cil. Mr. President I thank you very
much for removing the Attorney General
and I think he is most fitting in that
new office, especially where you have
incompetent Ministers he would be able
to give them his direction momently
i stead of coming down so far. And it
i most fitting to have your Crown Attor-
nsl near to your ministry especially in
a time like this. We have seen again
incompetence of this Government that
we are going to have election Grenada
using legal men-magistrates, Trinidad
using voting machines costing $2 mil-
lion to make it proof. Of course I am
not saying that we should order that be-
cause we haven't got the money but I
am just showing you it is used to show
you how important election is. You
take some layman here and put him in
charge of election who probably will
have to run to the Crown Attorney
every minute of the day to get some
information. Then you go on to the
country and you pick up some little
school boy or some little teacher or some
other person, and you had the corrup-
tion here in time past. You have the
Registrar, you have Magistrates, you
have the Crown Attorney himself, then
you go down Mr. President, the Govern-
ment, to the Education Department
where the only trained teacher in St.
Vincent that went somewhere and quali-
fied, take him away from there and put
him as an Electoral Clerk--second man
-Errey John, the only fellow who can
put a little system in our schools, the
others have no qualifications, so he
moved Errey John who is qualified, you
don't see what he is doing to our child-
ren. A man whose qualifications he
can be an Education Officer because we
have been trying with the Education
Officers for years and teachers are far
above them. Whither are we going?
Personalities, friendships, where are we
going and the primary schools going to
pieces no system, no set up, nothing at
all. It is time for you to advertise for
a high calibre Education Officer not a
policeman to run around sch 'ntls very
five. minutes. M'ftLe one to set a pOIbty

to be a friend to the teachers going in
their schools and discussing with them,
to divide the area into zones and have
inspectors in charge of five or six schools
and bring about some competition.
Again this Government has got into
power for three years I am still on the
point, the Chief Minister got up, what
have they done? What have they done
Mr. President but to continue the Roads
Programme, to continue the school pro-
gramme, to finish building the airport
(look the Minister there now sitting once
had a lot to do with it when he was
in our Government) and above all they
have not yet finished the telephone or
tackle the Harbour scheme that we left.
Well I don't believe they would get
through that within six months so that
would fall on our shoulders to do. Mr.
President in ending I want to say that
we on this Opposition have enough, we
have no intention of moving this Gov-
ernment within three months when we
know there is an election, but we have
brought this motion here to debate to
show and to tell this Government what
have they done for three years, wake up.
Now that they wake up, all I would say,
"too late, too late shall be the cry, Jesus
of Nazareth passeth by." I thank you.
Mr. PRESIDENT: Honourable Members
before we take the adjournment I am
going to speak myself. I had not in-
tended to intervene in this debate but
the Honourable Member who has just
resumed his seat has caused me to do
so, because he has blamed the Govern-
ment for one or two things which are
my responsibilities, not theirs in the
Government. I am the Minister of the
Government responsible for the police
and all I would say on that matter is
that Honourable Members on my right
are frequently concerned with conditions
in the police force and frequently dis-
cuss the matter with me. About the
Superintendent of Public Works a mis-
take was made that the post was not
advertised in St. Vincent. This mis-
take was drawn to my attention by a
Member sitting on my right and the
mistake was rectified. There was of
course no question of the new Superin-
tendent being handpicked before hand;

in fact all the applications had not at
that time come in. The House will
adjourn until 3 o'clock.
House adjourned at 1.00 p.m.

All Members present as before.
Mr. PRESIDENT: The motion standing
in the name of the Honourable Member
for Kingstown is before the House.
HON. S. E. SLATER: Mr. President,
Honourable Members, it is indeed
strange when citizens of St. Vincent
leave this island and shall have spent a
few years abroad, and on their return
the first remark they can make is that
St. Vincent is marching on with all the
projects and schemes now in existence.
It is strange when one takes time off to
achieve something that is good and one
is being accused because one has done
something too good. Listening to the
remarks of the Honourable Member for
Kingstown, I heard him say that this
letter was written by Mr. Hilary DaSilva.
The Honourable Gentleman was sitting
by my side when someone mentioned
what was written in the newspapers
about my letter. Then Mr. DaSilva said
"but you decided to change that word."
It is true Mr. DaSilva was there. In
discussion I showed Mr. Railton this
letter and asked him whether these
roads and schemes were right. He made
some comments and at one paragraph
something was said that it was not quite
right. I argued it was, but I said I
would change it because it is the peo-
ple's business. I was going then to make
a broadcast. It was then sent to the
press. On that morning the, Honour-
able Member said to me, "Well I read
your letter and if I didn't get up to put
in that motion everybody in St. Vincent
would believe that every thing is quite
true. Whether it is true or not we have
to make an opposition," which is quite
true, the Honourable Gentleman is doing
so now, there is no crime about it. But
because we have done that much, it is
more than talking actually fact, and
you can see that with your own eye,
there is nothing to deceive you about,
Honourable Member for Kingstown.

As' for incompetency and what not as
stated, I don't see how the Honourable
Member is thinking. As a matter of fact
all that was said was thought of by the
previous Government is really put into
being and it is actually done. Is there
anything wrong about that? If they
couldn't do it, is it my fault? Why
argue here, the same Honourable Mem-
ber in a motion here when he was in
school in 1948, he said he had to write
aon "What achievements this
Government or territory should acquire"
and by reading a Hansard and a Minute
from Ciprian Bernard Gibbs, he was
able to mention the Arnos Vale Airfield
and that was in 1948 before I was in this
Council. How is it all these schemes
could be more or less thought of by the
Opposition and nobody else. Gentlemen
I have heard, I have listened, but to
inwardly digest them it is impossible
because in the heart of hearts of the
Opposition they too know otherwise. I
am saying this with reference to the
Hydro-Electric Scheme in 1947 in a poli-
tical meeting at Chateaubelair, I made
mention to the people of Chateaubelair
that it was time that they get electricity
in Chateaubelair, in like manner as any
other part of St. Vincent. At that time
there was a representative from the
C.D.C. who got up and substantiated
that something would be done very soon;
how then it could be said that this was
something done or thought of by the
Opposition but yesterday? When the
new bridge at Chateaubelair was opened
His Excellency the Governor Mr.
Dever',ll, and one of C.D.C. representa-
tive were also there, and when I told
the people of Chateaubelair now that
they have got their roads oiled, they
have got their new bridge, the day is not
far when they would have also electri-
city in Chateaubelair. Therefore Gen-
tlemen if all these schemes that are
now in progress mean that this Govern-
ment is a "do nothing Government" I
want to see the Government that is a
"do something" Government. I realise
that we can change sometimes to suit
circumstances, we should at least, but
not when other people know the facts.
It is useless trying to put up a front
when you haven't got one. As a matter

of fact it is more by your actions that
you are judged, it is what you do not
what you actually say because as it is
said by judging idle talk cost lives so it is
idle talk that means nothing, it is what
you do. All this propaganda about the
Chief Minister and the Government
being incompetent, it is not for you to
judge. Where is your yardstick, what
are you judging with? You have no-
thing by which you can judge him with.
Mr. PRESIDENT: I must ask the Hon-
ourable Member to address the Chair.
HON. S. E. SLATER: Mr. President I am
sorry. If there was a yardstick by which
the Honourable Member could judge this
incompetence I want to say this, it is
impossible for the Honourable Member
that he took nearly two years for him
to find out that it is a dishonest Gov-
ernment and about two months to find
out that it is an honest Government; or
in other words during two years the
Government was honest, and within two
months it became dishonest. Well Mr.
President one can change one's tone of
voice to suit circumstances there is
nothing wrong with that, but that
doesn't mean that the people of St.
Vincent or the public can't understand.
They understand very well, they know
what is going on. It isn't like yesterday
as it was said by one of the Honourable
Members that because of not having
adult education the Chief Minister
wants the people to be ignorant. I
wouldn't say that but I would say that
the Member who mentioned that would
like to keep the people ignorant because
in truth and in fact there is an adult
education class by the Grammar School
or by the Education Officer there Is one
going on. Whether in Kingstown or in
Georgetown it is in St. Vincent; but not
knowing the fact is no fault of mine. I
believe the Opposition, or so-called
Opposition-because I am sure most of
the Opposition sitting on the other side
could be changed overnight and brought
over here if given a chance. I heard the
Honourable Member for South Leeward
to say that he was beseeched and begged
in the middle of the night to join this
party. Mr. President I am saying here
now during the Chief Minister's visit to

London with the now Minister for Trade
and Production on my left, the Honour-
able Member for South Leeward came
into my ministry and asked me to speak
to the Minister when he gets back that
he be accepted as the fourth Minister.
On the return of the Minister I spoke
to him and these are my words, I said
if the Member for South Leeward made
a mistake we should allow him a chance.
We discussed it thoroughly and Members
agreed. Mr. President in this House
when it was agreed, the Honourable
Member for South Leeward came here
and five minutes before he sat down he
canvassed every Nominated Member to
vote for him and that was perfectly true.
When the die was cast the Honourable
Member got every vote because it was
his wish, it was his desire to come over,
but as the die was cast and the President
got up and said "Honourable Member
for South Leeward you are now duly
elected I would like to hear what you
have to say." At the same time the
Leader of the Opposition Party came in
and as he marched in the Honourable
Member for South Leeward looked
around and he got up and said, "Mr.
President, Honourable Members, I am
glad to see that the Government has
so much faith in me but because of
political ties I am afraid I must refuse."
Mr. President it wasn't five minutes after.
when we went in the Crown Attorney's
Office (now the Attorney General) and
he actually cried and he said to me
"Sam the boys would have flogged me if
I only said yes." What I am saying here
I am not made to say, I don't have to
lie and what I am saying here is per-
fectly true.
HON. S. E. SLATER: Yes Mr. President
as I was saying I see no reason for it
because this is the whole point as far as
I am concerned. Every man sitting
around this table here in their heart of
hearts I know their view and idea is to
assist in fostering the well-being and the
good of everything in St. Vincent. I
know that every member sitting here his
or her ambition is to see that his or her
constituency gets the amenities it de-
serves, I know that. But while I accept

or would appreciate Opposition I like
constructive opposition and constructive
criticism, not just because you like to
put up-anyone would like to put up a
political speech to catch the people, you
would say one thing today and another
tomorrow. I for one believe that what
is being done by this Government might
have been a dream or a thought in the
past. The reason for that is no fault of
theirs I would say or maybe otherwise.
In the same way as in fiction you see
flying saucers, you imagined aeroplanes
before you actually saw them in reality.
Those were things that were being
thought of. The people who put them
into being their names are indelibly
written as the producers, the people who
started the scheme and whatever this
Government has actually done is being
done under the auspicies and instrumen-
tality of the Government now concerned.
We have got three major schemes on
footing, we are talking about roads and
schools as the Honourable Member has
been talking about, we are talking about
schemes that were anticipated and
thought about-the deep water pier that
he speaks about that was really thought
of in the days of Mr. Coutts. We dis-
cussed it, we had Mr. Morrison the en-
gineer coming down here drawing our
plans and what not but the then Gov-
ernment could not have attempted to do
anything to the scheme because without
having finance or without getting the
technical know-how, how they would get
the fI.nds they couldn't do it. Today
I am .happy to say because of this Gov-
ernment's forceful and considerate unity
with tVe Canadian and American Gov-
ernments we could get aid from the
Ameri.can and Canadian Government
while your Government couldn't get i-t
to which we have got $1 million (Can.)
for the erection of the deep water pier
and not only that we have got the tele-
phone system. You have been.....

Mr. PRESIDENT: I must ask the Hon-
ourable Member to address the Chair.

HON. S. E. SLATER: Mr. President,
sorry Sir. 'the Honourable Members
have been talking about the telephone
system but I believe before I leave from

around this table I would be able to say
to you that we are going to start erecting
a new telephone system in St. Vincent,
and when I say that I believe I am
on the right side. Honourable Members,
had this Government been so inefficient,
incompetent and lazy could all these
achievements being perfected? It is
true the Honourable Member failed in
his achievements and I had to complete
them. Well I can see by his speech.
We have got also on our programme the
North Leeward Hydro Electric scheme.
That is not anymore a dream it is a
reality, work has actually started and
before long we would be connecting
electricity from Chateaubelair with
Kingstown to enable most of the appli-
cants now to be facilitated with electri-
city. This Government from its incep-
tion went all out well knowing that
C.D.C. has a franchise to install lights
throughout St. Vincent and we told
them that it was necessary that the
whole of St. Vincent should be accom-
modated. Therefore there is nothing
wrong with that and it was an obligation
that they had and by our agitation they
met their obligation; then they would
say because we have done that the
people should return this Government or
the people shouldn't say anything good
about this Government. Mr. President
it is true we make mistakes sometimes,
but deliberate mistakes Sir is something
that should not be tolerated in this
House when Sir at every meeting of this
House all the accusations and criticisms
are centered not on the Government but
the Honourable Member for South Lee-
ward says on the Honourable Chief
Minister. Why, is it because of salary?
Is is because of selfishness? Mr. Presi-
dent nothing can happen before its
time. Every living soul must have his
chance, and whatever the gods shall
ordain man cannot change and what-
evrr the voice of the people so desire no
one man can come here every meeting
t- decry the voice of the people, it is
impossible Str. I am saying this, I would
not wash any dirty linens here because
,-e are federated now and more than
that we are West Indians. Whatever I say
here I am only saying because I full well
can throw back the joke, I take what
they say as a joke and I can throw it

back to them; but I have no malice, I
carry no malice towards it, the only
thing Mr. President I like to leave here
is this, that whatever this Government
achieve is there on the sands of time
so that maybe when we are gone our
children and our children's children
would be able to see it and still call our
names. I thank you.
Mr. PRESIDENT: If no other Honour-
able Member wishes to speak on this mo-
tion . .

HON. L. C. LATHAM: Mr. President,
Honourable Members, I listened carefully
to the Minister for Communications and
Works and he didn't defend the motion
that seeks to overthrow this Government
today. In other words Mr. President as
the saying goes "Silence gives consent".
I heard him say, Mr. President, that
when strangers come here they say that
St. Vincent is marching on. St. Vincent
is marching on by the people who come
from Aruba and Curacao and spending,
building houses and buying cars etc. St.
Vincent is marching on because most of
our Civil Servants and even the labour-
ers are running from St. Vincent going
to England. They used to go to Trini-
dad once upon a time, Mr. President, and
through the instrumentality of this Gov-
ernment I presume they are chasing
them out of Trinidad by the heaps and
when they get back to St. Vincent and
find that they are right in the blaze of
the fire they go to England. Where is
the industry the P.P.P. planned in this
manifesto? Where is the agricultural
industry planned? Where Is it? Our
island Mr. President is purely agricul-
tural. The Ham and Bacon Factory Mr.
President, this Government allowed it to
be closed down. It used to be a help to
the children in the country who rear pigs
to help them with their education, some
of them got to Grammar School from
raising pigs. Then they stop exporting
pigs to Trinidad and there is no ham and
bacon factory, the pigs are actually vPP-
ting overgrown and people can get no
sale for them. The Government doesn't
care about that and that is a part of our
agricultural programme for St. Vincent,
you must raise pigs. All over the coun-
try there are pigs getting fat and die,

What is this Government doing about it.
The Chief Minister gets up here and
makes a lot of speech here and all for
self, Mr. President. When the Honour-
able Member for the Grenadines was on
this side of the House, he was leader of
the Opposition and time and again he
blast across the table asking for orange
plants for the Grenadines. He brought
here a motion similar to this motion that
we are debating today and asked the
Government to separate the Grenadines
from the mainland and let them be a re-
public even if he had to get a special
fleet to give the mainland battle, he
wanted separation. But all of a sudden
Mr. President we have seon that he
crossed the Table and I hopo he got the
citrus plants for the people of the Gren-
adines and I hope he ge.t the Cold
Storage plant and the water that he
went for, I believe he is satisfied. Mr.
President there is much incompetence
according to the P.P.P. manifesto that
it is too numerous to mention why this
motion is brought here today. Let us
take the edible oil, Mr. President, we are
shipping our copra to Barbados. When
the Cotton Ginnery was burnt down Mr.
President the first place we appealed to
get some cooking oil is Trinidad. They
have a surplus of cooking oil, you can
get all the cooking oil you want, also
from St. Lucia. The Minister knows we
could get our cooking oil but this Govern-
ment is trying to spend as much money
as they want in foreign countries. Now
take Holland they don't even buy sweet
potatoes from St. Vincnt. What they
would buy it for when they have a peas-
antry which is subsidized by Government
in Holland, and still you want to spend
all our money, exchange the gilders for
our B.W.I. dollars, the same as Italy this
Government allows over $21/2 million to
to be spent in Italy every year buying
Fiats, macaroni, all sorts of .foods and
we can grow the same foods here, Mr.
President. Italy and those countries do
not buy even an ounce of starch from
here. What they would buy it for when
they have a substantial peasantry in
Italy and Holland. We have here in St.
Vincent according to a release from the
Chief Minister's Office, Government owns

2,000 acres of the best arable land in
St. Vincent and get nothing from it, and
still importing food, oils and fats from
Holland from Belgium and Italy. And
now rice-rumour says they just give
licence for 1,000 bags of rice from the
United States. That is what you call
incompetence Mr. President. We have
arable soil here according to the Chief
Minister to grow the same food that we
are importing. Why should we import
peas and corn? Why should we import
all these things when we have suitable
soil here for growing them? If this Gov-
ernment is worth its salt, it would subsi-
dize the peasants and get them to plough
and till the soil and take us out of grant-
in-aid. The Member for the Grenadines
said here that any Honourable Member
around this table who said we could get
out of grant-in-aid is insane. He wants
St. Vincent to be tied to the coat strings
of the British Taxpayers year after year.
I said no, Mr. President. When a hen
hatches its chicks at a given time the
hen would wean those chicks and let
them fight for themselves. The same
goes for political matters, the time is
not too distant Mr. President when the
British Government would wean us just
like the hen weans its chickens and we
must be able to fight for ourselves and
we could make out here if we have an
honest true and righteous Government
because our only salvation here is the
soil-agriculture. If the Government
had known what they are doing Mr.
President they could have gone out and
encourage foreign industry here, let
foreign investors come in and give them
pioneer status. We have our Sea Island
Cotton. The Ginnery took the Govern-
ment of St. Vincent sixty years to build
and we see it went off like the tower of
Babel in a few minutes. Sixty years to
build and destroyed in a few minutes.
The Government in power lay down
arms and made absolutely no attempt
to restore that Cotton Ginnery so vital
to St. Vincent's economy. Some people
describe the Cotton Ginnery as the
"kitchen of St. Vincent" because it used
to feed us and feed our animals-every-
body used to benefit from the Ginnery.
People also got employment there, got

our cotton ginned there and if this Gov-
ernment was not fast asleep instead of
shipping cotton to England to weave and
come back to us Sea Island shirts, we
could have got the spinners to come
down here and spin the cotton right
here. But what we find, all is being
destroyed the whole structure is being
destroyed and there is no attempt by
the P.P.P. Government to restore the
Cotton Ginnery. The Minister for Trade
and Production-the sick Minister there
-he made a very bold statement in
Barbados which came over the air, a
political statement, I believe the Minis-
ter meant well but his hands are all
tied Mr. President, he can't do any
Our schools Mr. President, let us take
our schools-this Government has been
preaching, when the Chief Minister was
on this side of the House he was preach-
ing that Government only had accom-
modation for 62% of the children in St.
Vincent and the other 38% were walk-
ing the streets, some of them commit-
ting crime and then they are taken in
the hands of the police. Since he got
into power Mr. President "the same
accommodation is there for 62% of the
children and the same 38 % are still on
the streets and I believe it is even worst
and they say they are building schools
here and schools there. I got Govern-
ment once to rent a house at Belmont.
from Mr. Bradshaw to open a school be-
cause all these years, all the estates were
sold out there, the Glamorgan Estate,
the Calder Estate, the Evesham Vale
Estate, all of them came together and
had their boundary there and the peo-
ple who bought out the land lived there
for forty to fifty years and I got the
former Government to rent that place
to open a school. And when the school
was opened there were 600 children
who applied for entrance to that school
because the children there, some of
them had to go to Brighton School,
some to Belair school, some to Meso-
potamia school and some to the Eves-
ham school, as far as that from the
Belmont area, it was a very scattered
area and most of them had to walk two
and three miles so you see the need for

schools and since that Calder School is
built they still keep that school as a
feeder school. The Calder School has
over 600 children on roll and get over
500 in attendance and the Belmont
school has 368 children still, so you see
when you say you build a school, it is
these same children who had to walk two
and three miles that occupy the school
so you didn't ease the situation, this
Government did not ease the situation,
and the Government doesn't want to
build .schools as far as I see, you want
the children to grow up illeterates so
that you could rule them, when they
grow up illiterate you could always go
to the market square and fool them.
The Chief Minister is making all those
unnecessary trips abroad Mr. President.
I have been trying to set the statistics
to see how many trips he made abroad,
but unfortunately I did not succeed.
Making all those unnecessary trips and
having no time to attend to the people's
business. Making it very difficult for the
inhabitants of St. Vincent an.d very diffi-
cult for the Ministers and himself. In
Grenada, Mr. President all the Ministers
under the Chief Minister Bjaize are con-
tributing money, they have a box there
and they are contributing monthly in
that box for education and the good and
welfare of the people of Grenada. In
St. Vincent the Government in power
is trying to do just the opposite. Put
the bulldozer to bulldoze the playing
field at Richmond Hill to put technical
school and leave the spot at the factory
that was burnt down. Why didn't they
bulldoze the old factory site to put the
technical school and leave the children's
playing field alone. "Too much work
and no play makes Jack a dull boy," Mr.
President. The children must have re-
creation. In Jamaica the Government
has acres of land to make playing fields
for cricket and all kinds of sports. In
St. Vincent the only playing field we
have to keep the children off the street,
they bulldoze it and say they are putting
technical school. Why not bulldoze the
walls of the factory? They are so short-
sighted! "Incompetence" says the P.P.P.
manifesto, incompetence in the Govern-
ment. We have always been told in
Sunday School that where there is no

vision the people perish". The only
thing we are patiently waiting on is an
election. The Labour Party Mr. Presi-
dent tried its utmost some time ago,
went all out with petitions etc. and
demonstrations to revoke the sale of the
Youth Centre. Motions were brought to
this Honourable House. Money passed
somewhere Mr. President, either under-
neath the table or on top and the Youth
Centre was sold to private enterprise and
around the table here we heard a mem-
ber from the Government benches to say
that there is no place called Youth
Centre ground. We have seen the Net-
ball tournament played here in St. Vin-
cent and we have seen the girls made
good of themselves because they won the
series. And the Government was so
short-sighted; they still wanted to rob
the playing field from those Youths.
Where will they practise if you do that?
We realized Mr. President that they
had made a mistake, and we saw them
correct their mistake, and we therefore
took it in good faith and got back the
Youth Centre ground, but we never
knew that this Government was going
to bulldoze the other playing field for
the children to build something and
leave the old wall of the cotton factory
there. It looks so ridiculous there in the
town Mr. President, because they are
not going to build back the cotton fac-
tory there. This Government has so
much complaint that according to one
speaker they should walk right out.
(One is gone Mr. President).
We have Mr. President another bad
complaint and this time it is the Stoney
Ground. This complaint of Stoney
Ground would be a very vexed question
in St. Vincent, Mr. President. I went
down the hospital several times and
when you are upstairs you can see that
whole line of houses near to the hospital
occupied by tenants, and you would be
surprised, Mr. President that when they
have their radios on at full volume and
all the noises resound in the hospital
wards and those poor sick people are in
bed. I have heard the Honourable
Third Nominated Member (I think it
was on the motion for the adjournment)
asked Government some time ago to do

all that lies in its. power to acquire that
whole line of houses so that peace and
quietude would remain for the sick peo-
ple in bed. When persons are sick and
they hear radios in full swing, making
noises, and playing, songs, you can well
imagine what it is, like. And I think it
was a good gesture for the Third Nomi-
nated Member when he made that very
good plea, and I think the Government
has listened carefully to what has been
spoken here, and that they will weigh
them and see what to decide if they
could acquire that place and move all
those people to Stoney Ground. I think
the first time I have heard about the
Stoney Ground houses (subject to cor-
rection) is for the lower income bracket
people, and it serves a very good purpose
for them, and I think you can remove
those people there and acquire all those
houses in the hospital zone. I cannot
see the point Mr. President that this
Government is going all out to look for
a suitable place for private enterprise.
They are not looking for a suitable place
for a school, no, they don't want schools,
but theatre. Most of the crimes that you
get is when the people go to theatre and
see what they do there. They are well
educated in crimes at theatres, but the
Government would go all out and do
everything that lies in its power to get
the best suitable spot-when it is not
the Youth Centre Grounds it must be
the Stoney Ground earmarked for the
hospital-doctors quarters etc. Govern-
ment quarters, etc. so vital a place.
Theatre-what has happened to all the
lands at Arnos Vale, Government has so
much lands at Arnos Vale. If you want
land for your friend give him at Arnos
Vale and how nice it would be for the
boys and girls to get in their cars, their
little Fiats and go to Arnos Vale for a
picture in the open air cinema then the
Government would be doing something.
The land at Stoney Ground is already
earmarked for something else. Govern-
ment has lands at Arnos Vale if this
Government is so nice and want the
theatre then go to Arnos Vale, because
as the Honourable Member for South
Leeward said, you have the nurses and
the hostel built there, you have the

doctors quarters built there and twenty-
five houses for the lower income bracket
people and this Government is going all
out to get a theatre in the same com-
pound, what kind of Government we
have here? What manner of man is this
Mr. President, catering for private en-
terprise? Not a school, no, he doesn't
want any school for our children. The
P.P.P. said here in the manifesto that
they are going to build a secondary
school preferably at Georgetown or some
other place. Where is the secondary
school? He is thinking of public build-
ings instead of secondary school. Not
because I haven't been to a secondary
school so I wouldn't like to see the mass
get a secondary education. They would
make better citizens who won't be so
easily fooled. You couldn't fool citizens
if they are educated. But you are try-
ing all your utmost to build a theatre.
God in heaven knows how much it would
cost under the table.
Down at the market square where the
P.P.P. keep meetings, Mr. President it
was surprising to hear some nights ago
and to know the conduct of our Chief
Minister, the way. he conducted himself
at the market square. The Chief Minis-
ter of any of these islands is the second
man in command. His Honour is here
as Her Majesty's representative and the
next man in command is the Chief Min-
ister. But when the Chief Minister gets
out in public and starts to curse and
swear and take the name of the Lord in
vain hence he would be losing respect,
not losing -respect of the people around
alone but of the island because some
nights ago I went there and I saw a lot of
strangers there from the United States
and B.G. people spending holidays here,
people hearing that there is a political
meeting there they thought it is some-
thing like home but only to hear the
Chief Minister of St. Vincent how he
conducts himself in public. And Mr.
President it is through all those cir-
cumstances that cause this motion to
be brought here today to be debated
fully and the people of St. Vincent take
a very dim view of the Government on
the whole. I have heard him say this
morning Mr. President that they are

building roads but roads must go on
-roads, schools and water they must
go on. These are amenities that every
Government must give. You are not
just going to sit down there and use the
money anytime you want a trip to go to
the United States, or when you want to
go to Grenada or when you want to
charter a plane. Roads, water and lights
are the amenities that every government
gives to its people throughout the civil-
ized world. Mr. President with your
permission I just want to quote-a para-
graph from the newspaper-I read this
with ease Mr. President-
"Improved and increased water sup-
ply for the following areas" under the
caption of "Work planned" Mr. Presi-
Mr. PRESIDENT: The Honourable Mem-
ber should say what he is quoting from.
HON. L. C. LATHAM: I am quoting
from the Ministers letter.
Mr. PRESIDENT: Just give us the date.
HoN. L. C. LATHAM: The Vincentian
for the 1st October, the Minister's letter,
the Minister for Communications and
Works. He said-
Improved and increased water sup-
plies for the following areas:-
(a) Higher Lowmans
(b) Chapmans
(c) New Grounds
(d) Lauders
(e) Barrouallie
(f) Spring Village
(g) Chateaubelair
(h) Biabou
(i) South Rivers/Colonarie
(j) Overland
(k) Fitz Hughes
(1) Layou
(m) Gordon Yard
(n) Grenadines"
Mr. President over 8 years ago (subject
to correction) the Majorka Water
scheme came into being in St. Vincent
from the Marriaqua Valley. You would
be surprised to know just across a place
called Reilly at the back of Marriaqua, a
place called Carriere, Mt. Pleasant
mountain, the six inch line passed right
through the village and you would be
surprised to know where those people get

their water- to drink-it is a big hole dug
in the earth where there are a lot of
frogs and they have to take their dipper
and dip out the frogs and when the
hole catches up again they fill their
vessels, and the six inch line passes
through those places to come into town,
and time and again I have been making
a lot of noise for water for the Marriaqua
Valley, I have letters on my file at Meso-
potamia where the Engineer from Public
Works said as soon as the scheme from
Layou comes into Kingstown they have
a T that is left out on the line at a
place called Kilburney and that they
would supply the whole of the Marriaqua
area with pipe borne water as soon as
the water system comes from the Lee-
ward end. That was done, you have the
water system from the Leeward end Mr.
President and what we have been given
to understand, but this Government is
very vindictive they lay out all these
lines and leave out the Marriaqua Valley
where the source is strong. If you take
the Richland Park, Mr. President, Hope-
well, Mesopotamia, Kelly, Jackson Pas-
ture, Carriere, Cane End, Glenside, Mt.
Pleasant, Mountain Caruth, Monteque,
Freeland, Reilly, Evesham Vale, all
those places, how could those people live
without water. Some of those people
have to go two and a half to three miles
for water. The last time I had to take
my pick-up and go to Mesopotamia for
water for them. And we have been
waiting all that time on the Majorka
water, thousands of people to get water
and I see from this release from the
Ministry of Communications and Works
all where they planned to give water
next year. Well Mr. President the Mar-
riaqua Valley is not in here- at all it is
conveniently omitted from the scheme.
You know why the Marriaqua Valley is
not going to get water, it is because
Latham is living there in the Marriaqua
area so since Latham is resident there
he wouldn't give all those people water,
so because of Latham let them punish
'all those people. That is the whole
thing behind it and how long is it going
to work. October is one side, you have
November, December, January, three
months, the handwriting would be on

the wall. Three months and they would
be clean out, and Mr. President the last
day of this session the Opposition would
come in here fully regaled in black to
mourn them out.
All these things how they are going to
last-punishing the people the amenities
of Government. In the Marriaqua
Valley the peasants produce the most
bananas there, we are not lazy, we pro-
duce more agricultural crops than any
other village in St. Vincent and you
would still sit down to your desk and
omit them from getting water. You
would be surprised to know the people
of Richland Park and Hopewell how they
get water. As I see it the Government
really needs a change. I don't think I
would continue much longer Mr. Presi-
dent because I don't like to bore your
patience but I notice this motion of cen-
sure has brought the sick Minister out
this morning although he is very sick.
Mr. President I shall close my speech and
take my seat.
HON. C. L. TANNIS: %Mr. President,
Honourable Members, the motion before
the House.
"Be it Resolved that this Council
affirms its lack of faith and confidence
in the Government and expresses its
dissatisfaction at the incompetence
and maladministration in the manage-
ment of the affairs of St. Vincent and
the Grenadines."
Before I commence to debate this motion
I beg leave to ask a question-
Will the mover of the motion please
state what period he refers to here
when he says "incompetence, and mal-
administration in the management of
the affairs of St. Vincent and the Gre-
nadines?" Since you have left the
Government or the whole life of the
HON. E. S. CAMPBELL: Since you joined
HON. C. L. TANNIS: Well now I would
proceed. Now Sir......
Mr. PRESIDENT: I will ask the Honour-
able Member to confine himself for the
last nine months under this censureship.
HON. C. L. TANNIS: I would try to Sir.

The Mover of the motion said in his
argument thqt the machinery has been
blocked, and he has just indicated with-
in the last nine months; there I take it
for granted that the Mover of the motion
agrees that the Government was a good
Government up to January or December.
But in his outline this morning he criti-
cised the Government during the period
he left the Government until now.
Therefore his argument here is not cor-
rect. He could not criticise the Govern-
ment for a period of six months prior
to January when he was then in the
Government and then come to tell me
because I am going to speak this after-
noon that he is referring to the period
from January to October of 1960. There-
fore he is trying Sir, very cleverly to
allow me to confine my speech from
January to October. I have no inten-
tions to do so Sir. I know I am in the
position to speak and I would speak on
which ever period that suits me to con-
vince the House of the points I intend
to bring. I knaw full well Sir, that I
was in the Opposition criticising the
Government but I did that in all good
faith and I put forth during my time in
the Opposition very sound points to the
Government which they could have im-
plemented. But I listened to the Oppo-
sition bringing a motion here to censure
the Government and they have not yet
made a suggestion to which the Govern-
ment could follow or put forward a
reasonable suggestion that the Govern-
ment could have implemented which
they have not yet done, whether it be
by the Member for Kingstown or by any
other member of the Opposition. I
thought today Sir that in putting for-
ward such a motion they would have
hinted out to the House the points,
mismanagement and maladministration,
inccnopetence, and then put forward to
the House a better solution or a better
working programme to convince this
House that the Government was not
putting into effect that which they could
have done. Now I would like to strike
one note. We are all in a country Mr.
President where the key note is finance.
I moved a motion calling upon the Gov-

ernment-while I was in the Opposition
-to approach the Federal Government
for $8 million. Unfortunately Sir, the
Federal Government to which most of
the Members of the Opposition is affili-
ated did not release to the Government
of St. Vincent the money required for
putting its programme into being. And I
must say I criticised my affiliated Gov-
ernment for their action to retard the
progress of the country because it hap-
pened at a time when the Government
in power was not affiliated to the Fed-
eral Government. And I said Sir, in
clear language that I would not be a
part and parcel of that type of be-
haviour when they are going to keep
back the progress of my country be-
cause of political reasons. And the point
is Mr. President if you have a Gov-
ernment who because of political reasons
would not want to do anything to one
district or the other I still will condemn
such a Government. If we go into the
fine points Sir, the first Sir, the first
point that gave rise to my vigorous
defence of the Opposition was the start
of the Honourable Member for Kings-
town and his very spiteful attitude of
dealing with the methods for things in
the Grenadines. In the first place Si'r.
soon after the Government came into
pawer instigated by the Member for
Kingstown Sir, he "walk stick" on the
roads votes for the Grenadines and that
was strictly by the Minister concerned
and since then Mr. President I found out
that this was a personal suggestion and
a personal measure brought into being
by the Member for Kingstown. That in
itself shows you Sir that the Member for
Kingstown is in no position to criticise
the Government now because he was en-
gineering a part which his Government
should have followed to suit his whims
and fancies. Failing that, he resigned.
Now ;.Mr. President since the Member has
resigned and removed and since the
beginning of this nine months that he
has quoted Sir, the Minister here on my
right has restored to the Grenadines its
rightful place in matters dealing with
roads, water etc. and the Minister for

Trade and Production Fisheries etc. the
things which I once advocated for Sir.
Mr. President I would like to tell the
Ex-Minister that I criticised the Gov-
ernment while I was on the Opposition,
I made just criticisms and I gave reas-
ons for those criticisms and I made
suggestions healthy suggestions that
could have been implemented. Some
have been and some are being imple-
mented. I will tell you I criticised and
I spoke at length on the airfield. I
spoke at length on the deep water har-
bour. I spoke at length while I was a
Member of the Opposition, yet I did so
and I had a right to as a Member of the
Opposition and as a Member of the Gov-
ernment, I am satisfied now that they
have completed the airfield, I cannot
criticise it any longer. They have now
achieved the goal where they have been
given $1 million (Can.) for the deep
water harbour which we long awaited
for, it should have come long ago but the
Federal Government if pressure was not
brought upon them-was playing carni-
val to allow an election to come forward
before the release of those Canadian
dollars; but pressure had to be brought
on the Federal Government for the re-
lease of this Canadian grant which
should have been here long before but
because of the affiliation of the St. Vin-
ent Labour Party with the Federal Gov-
ernment. But I am saying again Mr.
President that politics of that nature
should not interfere with the advance-
ment of a people and Members of the
Opposition even though they are not in
favour with the Government should not
gang up with the Federal Governm-nt to
Withhold any finances that should come
up for the development of this country.
Mr. President, the Member for Kings-
town said that we should put aside
selfishness and the objective of this
Government deals within selfishness.
Could it be said Sir, that the Govern-
ment within the last nine months as he
quoted just now Sir, has been selfish? I
would say no, Sir, if I had been asked
that question. The Government pro-
gramme for schools and water has been
spread throughout the length and
breadth of St. Vincent. Under school

programme Sir though it was the ambi-
tion of the Government to build in this
now period enough schools to take care
of all the children of school-going-age,
they would make up a certain percent-
age and up to this date Sir, the percent-
age of children of school-going-age who
could not be accommodated adequately
-I say adequately, that is, by giving the
necessary cubic space to each child-is
about 15% Mr. President. With the
building school programme which has
gone forward they would take care of
another 10% but judging from tlhe rise
of population by now and 1965 there
would still Ibe a necessity to have addi-
tional funds to take care of a further 8%
of the school age population in the pri-
mary school so you can well see Sir that
the primary education and the accom-
modation for primary education is ful-
filled in this country. On the secondary
level Sir, funds are being embarked for
building a secondary school to accom-
modate 500 children, as soon as the plans
and everything has been fixed that
would be put into motion. That is no
dream as suggested by the Member for
South Windward. The Deep Water Har-
bour as the Minister told you Sir would
be started early next year. The Hydro
scheme is on its way. Whether it be
C.D.C. or C.D. & W. or whether it be St.
Vincent revenue these are landmarks or
footprints of the Government and ad-
vancement in any c untry in which we
live, take it or leave it. During this term
Sir the Minister for Social Services has
just opened officially the new science
lab and the domes .c science wing at
the Grammar Scl-ol. The technical
school Sir is on its way, although highly
criticized by the members of the Opposi-
tion. Whether the techincal school
should have been built on the playing
field or on the site of the cotton ginnery
they have highly criticised the Govern-
ment for building the technical school.
Of course they might put the argument
first Sir-I expect them to do that-of
the site, but they wanted the Govern-
ment to put off the building of the
Technical School until the ginnery site
could have been settled so as to allow

the Opposition Government who has a
hope, who has a hope I say Sir, to take
over the Government to come into being.
That is the point Sir to allow them a
chance for electioneering speeches, Mr.
President. But the technical school is
necessary; it has started and it would be
finished and it is going to take care Sir
of a lot of our boys, giving the boys of
this Colony a chance to qualify them-
selves in several lines, Sir, that is so
necessary for the advancement of this
Colony. The Member for South Lee-
ward, he knows well Sir that it is the
intention of the Government to attach
to that technical school a secondary
modern school. No point blowing his
trumpet here Sir to say what are we
doing that has been planned; you know
that we are going to have this modern
secondary school and if you don't know
go into the Ministry and ask. Mr. Presi-
dent of course I know there has been
added local teachers, training centres
during this period of the Government,
there has been increased handicraft
centres throughout the island to teach
the girls to do their handiwork, there
has been further assistance to the pri-
vate secondary schools, in this country
Sir, there has been increased scholar-
ships to the secondary schools, there has
been increased scholarships to the Uni-
versity College of the West Indies to
train teachers to come back and help
us to train further the children of this
country. Mr. President if the Honour-
able Member was in such a position.and
he knewv much about the scholarships
why deceive the public or deceive the
Houle Mr. President? On one hand the
-f.ember for South Leeward appears not
to know and on the other hand he tries
to clear up points v:hich he knows to
know noting about, what sort of man
is that? Mr. President there are Extra
Mural classes in tb'si island, there are
classes for people who are trying to get
themselves qualified fr school certifi-
cate s:;an :'.rd, and a'l these things are
goinrT on Mr. President. They are going
on now Mr. President. The Minister
said just now Sir, that the scheme for
the telephone system is being worked
upon. Although Housing has not been
able to get enough money as the Gov-

ernment would have liked to have, with
the little funds that has been made
available for Housing plans are on foot
for increased houses for the lower in-
come bracket people of this country.
Public Health, engineering, drainage,
public baths, public latrines are being
programmed throughout the country.
They are reputting into shape and mak-
ing better safeguards for the water
sources in this country be chlorinating
plants etc. The marketing organisation
is well on the way, shipping potatoes
and yams and dasheen, to England, so
that our West Indian boys can get some
of their West Indian foods. Mr. Presi-
dent the Honourable Member stressed on
a pcint of potatoes to Trinidad. In the
beginning Sir of any organisation or new
market there must be some one on the
further end to control the deliveries of
the products that we should ship from
this country Sir. And do you expect Sir
that someone is going to sit in Trinidad
and market the St. Vincent products
without remuneration? Would the Hon-
ourable Member for South Leeward leave
here and go to Trinidad and cater for
the deliveries of our products and be
satisfied to be given $100 or $300. Mr.
President the people of this country are
getting a better price that they never
got for potatoes and a steady price at
that Mr. President, that is what the
Honourable Member should learn, not
get $12 today and $5 tomorrow, Sir, or
$2 tomorrow and ship all the potatoes
to Trinidad and allow them to rot. Mr.
President the same speculators in Trini-
dad that he now condemns they once
handled the potatoes, Sir, but not satis-
factorily. We have given them a chance
to still buy some of our potatoes, but in
an organised way from the Marketing
Board at a fixed price to help the people
in St. Vincent when the system would
be better organised, when you could
afford to set your own agency in Trini-
dad, when all the ultimate profits would
come back to the people of St. Vincent,
but until such time, in the trying stages
of a marketing organisation, can you set
up a big overhead office in Trinidad
without getting your marketing board
organised? The Honourable Member for
South Leeward knows better than that.
He handled the Grenadines.......

HON. H. F. YOUNG: Mr. President on
a point of order, I believe the Honour-
able Member has missed the point when
he says that I should know better .......
Mr. PRESIDENT: That is not a point of
HON. H. F. YOUNG: I shall speak on
the adjournment and clear this whole
thing up, Mr. President, you believe I
am condemning the Marketing Board.
HON. C. L. TANNIS: Mr. President the
Honourable Member should, if he has no
intentions to condemn the Marketing
Board, be careful with what statement
he makes in this House Sir, because it
is going in the records Sir, and if he is
going to make this statement in here,
Sir, God know what he is going to make
outside Sir.
HON. H. F. YOUNG: Mr. President on
a point of explanation Sir, the Honour-
able Gentleman seems to misunderstand
me Sir........
Mr. PRESIDENT: The Honourable Mem-
ber is not giving way, I will ask the
Honourable Member to keep his seat.
HON. C. L. TANNIS: Mr. President I
know a little more than the Honourable
Member thinks. The Marketing Board
is now catching swing, Sir, we are ex-
porting to Trinidad up to 800 bags of
potatoes per week. If the Honourable
Member thinks I don't know what I am
talking about I would like to let him
know. Soon, Sir, we feel we would be in
a position to handle better a lot more
items. Trial shipments have been made
in tomatoes, yams, eddoes and we hope
in the near future Sir we would be able
to handle them in larger quantities.
Not only ground provisions Sir we hope
soon the Marketing Organisation would
be able to assist in marketing surplus
fish that might be produced by the re-
organisation of the fishing industry. I
heard nothing of bananas, Sir. I once
thought that the Government was wrong
to take over the Banana Organisation
and set up an Interim Board, and I
know the then Member of the Opposi-
tion felt so too; but I know today Sir
not many of them would agree or would

say that the step taken was not a very
good one. Because even today Sir there
is quite a lot of dissatisfaction with the
present board which has beer handed
back to the Opposition block and so Sir
you noticed that it has passed this
House without criticism but you must
be warned and at this stage I would
like to say that the Opposition block
should I go out to assist more in build-
ing the economy of their country by
having the major industry of the island
-the banana industry and by the
propaganda preached throughout this
country Sir, on the banana industry, it
is now showing its efforts in the exports
of this country Sir. So then Sir, I would
ask the Opposition to put their board in
order. We cannot go from this House
here today Sir, without mentioning the
very wide road programme that is going
on and will go on during next year Sir.
The Government has plans for further
opening up of roads in many parts of
this country. Although the Member for
South Windward criticised the Govern-
ment for being selfish and withholding
developments in the South Windward
constituency, I noticed he is not men-
tioning again roads which was one of
his outstanding debates in this House,
because I noticed he is getting the roads
put into shape now so he no longer
would argue on roads. I know he would
agree with me. He is arguing on water
and I hope the Minister for Communica-
tions and Works would be able to go into
the matter now that he has reported to
the Minister that water is lacking in
certain districts to see whether this Gov-
ernment could make available funds to
assist the water situation in that area.
It must be said that Government's policy
would not be to stop any area now from
going forward, no, you mustn't say so.
They have given you roads and I know
you are satisfied, you are nearly satisfied
and I noticed you have smiled content-
edly with that remark. And I think if
you make the necessary appeal to the
Minister he is not so selfish, perhaps the
former Minister might have been.
Mr. PRESIDENT: I must ask the Hon-
ourable Member to address the Chair.

HON. C. L. TANNIS: Mr. President, he
stands a very good chance of getting
water now, Sir. Now Sir, speaking on
the matter taken up here by the Hon-
ourable Member for South Windward
that no effort is being made to grow
peas, corn and subsidies the peasants
and so forth, and then Sir on the other
hand he comes back and says that this
country can get out of grant in aid. Now
let us examine these points: The land
Sir-except for the land Settlement
Estates owned by private people-large
estates owners and now a growing peas-
antry. And Sir they are affiliated or the
Labour Party has the support of the said
owners of these lands except the Land
Settlement Estates. The persons who
back the Labour Party or who are part
of the Labour Party, the Opposition
block own the greatest part of land in
this country Sir. Who is to plant these
lands Mr. President, develop the lands,
why not now in their hearts, because it
was said by the Member for South Wind-
ward that if they planted the lands we
would be able to get out of grant in aid.
Well now Sir, who are the enemies to
this country, the people who own the
lands and would not plant them namely
Honourable Levi Latham and his col-
leagues .... ..
Mr. PRESIDENT: The Honourable Mem-
ber should refer to Member by titles.
HON. C. L. TANNIS: The Honourable
Member for South Windward, he owns
a lot of lands Sir, and a lot of his
followers Sir on the Opposition own
large areas of land cultivated or other-
wise and what are they doing Sir, harp-
ing that the Government should plant.
It is not the Government to plant it is
the people to plant. Everyone has a
right to tiy to develop his country, Sir.
And when your Government goes out to
give incentive and the Opposition criti-
cise without offering any solution or sug-
gestions we can get no further. They
are prepared Sir, at all cost to deter the
progress of the country to fulfil their
own selfish desires, and when they say
they want this country to advance they
are not really getting down to brass
tacks because if they really want this
country to advance they would pull their

weight as Members of the Opposition to
show to the people of this country that
they are really honest about what they
are saying. But they are not doing any-
thing but to criticise and destroy will-
fully or otherwise the plans which Gov-
ernment seeks to put in motion. Mr.
President the Honourable Member for
South Windward said in this House just
now that I said that the persons who
think that St. Vincent could get out of
grant in aid in the very near future
are crazy people, and I would still say so
Sir, whether I am in the Opposition or
the Government. I still maintain that
St. Vincent. cannot get out of grant in
aid in one or two years. They can have
all the brilliance, all the experts in the
Government, you can have all the
doctors, all the lawyers, all the men put
together on this side of the Government
unless you have the financial assistance
St. Vincent cannot get out of grant in
aid. And not only financial assistance
Mr. President, you have to have the co-
operation of the people. Mr. President
this country would have to be grant
aided and it is no disgrace to lie grant
aided, it is no disgrace. Some politi-
cians Sir would rather have a lot of
power and no money to spend in the
island. Yes that is what the Opposition
would like, to have all the power and no
money to spend in the island to circulate
among the people, and that is no good
at all. That is a one-sided country Mr.
President. To have power and no money
you are not advancing. Why not let us
be grant-aided, have a little power of
course so that you can implement your
policies. Mr. President I still firmly be-
lieve Sir that it would take a period of
time Sir, if we a"e to march on and to
meet the demands of a growing nation
Sir. The standards change every day
Sir as our people become more conscious
as they travel abroad and get better
standards of living, they look forward
to those same standards here and we
have to gear up and produce those
standards. -Therefore the added in-
creased revenue which might conie and
come very slowly Sir, would be taken up
in service rendered to the people. Yes
get out of grant in aid cut off all your
services don't improve on your services,

don't give the people any amenities and
yes get out of grant in aid. Yes that is
fine; keep wages down, that is the policy
of the Opposition that is the policy they
are forcing Government to do. Don't
increase wages, don't give better ameni-
ties, Mr. President don't give better con-
ditions don't build more clinics and leave
standards as they are and don't keep
abreast with the rest of the world. Get
out of grant in aid to say yes we are out
of grant in aid. Well I say no, Sir. Let
us be grant aided and let us get all the
amenities and all the development that
we can have Sir, and that's my policy
and I would say it here and outside in
season and out of season and until such
time that we are capable to produce
more to have minor industries to develop
tourism which must be one of the things
so that we can hold our own. I am say-
ing that we would rather be grant aided
than to cut down the services of this
country, as suggested by the Opposition
Members, Sir. That policy would carry
us right back and they know that Sir, in
their heart of hearts, Mr. President. And
for that reason Sir if you were to curtail
on your services not to be grant aided,
we would encourage-as my good friend
from South Windward the Honourable
Member who blamed the Government
for the people going to England, it is not
the fault of the Government, people get
more ambitious, they want better jobs
that cannot be got here a:nd they go
abroad to seek and get it and until such
time as we can provide jobs here-if we
can't provide them they go abroad to
get them. The Honourable Member Sir,
did likewise, he went to the Dutch coun-
tries and gathered a certain amount of
wealth and he was able to come back
here purchase some lands and develop
those lands and make himself a liveli-
hood. Why can't our boys go out too if
they have no avenue here for them, go
out go out gather some wealth come back
and then develop their country. They
would do similarly Sir, like Mr. Latham.
Mr. President more people have found
jobs, you cannot find jobs for everybody
overnight. That is a programme, it is
not a two year or three year programme,

and the Member for South Windward
Sir, is responsible to assist in making
that programme.
HON. E. S. CAMPBELL: On a point of
order Sir, why does. the Honourable
Member just keep attacking individuals
from this side of the House instead of
confining himself to his defence of the
motion of censure before the House.
Mr. PRESIDENT: That is not a point
of order.
HON. C. L. TANNIs: I thank you Mr.
President for enlightening the Member
for Kingstown. I thought he had gained
a lot of experience coming to this House
for the last couple of years, but he
seems to be worst. Mr. President, the
last point that I made Sir, several of our
boys of whom we are proud Sir, went
afield and made some money; they have
come back and try to assist in develop-
ing this country, and similarly I feel Sir
that the boys and girls who have gone
to England, Canada and elsewhere would
one day come back-all would not come
back but I know some have gone abroad
to gather some funds and come back to
build up this country. No one man
alone can build this country, or change
the picture overnight. The Honourable
Member made a remark that some of our
people were sent back from Trinidad and
it appears as if the Government was re-
sponsible for that. But Mr. President
what could be more false when a state-
ment made by an Honourable Member
of this House who knows better, you
don't mind that statement coming from
somebody who don't know, but when it
comes from someone in the House, an
Honourable Member who knows the con-
ditions that exist and the emigration re-
strictions of Trinidad, he knows full well.
More than that Sir, his party is affiliated
to the Governmnet in power in Trinidad.
Mr. President how could he lay the blame
on the shoulders of the Government?
on one hand he said we are sending
them out and on the other hand we are
still bringing them back from Trinidad.
In-consistency, I can't see it. The
Gentleman perhaps had a nightmare or
perhaps he had too much lunch at mid-
day, Sir. He made a mistake, Sir. Per-

haps it is a genuine mistake and he
would be able to clarify it at a later
He referred to my orange plants at the
Grenadines-citrus plants. I did get
some citrus plants and will continue to
get them. I am going to continue to
press for more until I have sufficient
citrus plants in the Grenadines. You
talk about water for the Grenadines.
Surely the water situation of the Grena-
dines must be taken care of, that is why
I am representing people. Do you think
I am representing the Grenadines to
allow all the services to be on the main-
land? No, I must see that my constitu-
ency is taken care of, and the Govern-
ment is making efforts to assist, and
the water situation among other things
would be taken care of. The cold stor-
age plant has been completed; the other
matters that concern fishing would be
completed shortly so as to put the fish-
ing industry into operation. And that
industry Mr. President is going to pro-
vide fish for the area that the Member
for South Windward represents so that
they can get fish in good condition,
cheaper fish, better than buying saltfish.
Then you would have a case to tell the
Government to stop importing so much
saltfish, when we are able to provide
enough fish at a reasonable price for the
people of this country. That is the point
so you would benefit from the coldstor-
age. Mr. President every member in
this House stands to benefit from the
introduction of the cold storage plant.
One Member said that the cold storage
belongs to the Honourable Member for
the Grenadines. What could be more
false? And they know very well. Part
of the Opposition block, Sir, has been
bold enough to preach that type of
behaviour in the Grenadines. Imagine
them saying that the cold storage plant
is built for the Member of the Grena-
dines. I am a fisherman, but I am only
one; look at the number of fishermen
we have in the Grenadines, and not only
in the Grenadines but all around the sea
coast of St. Vincent; and lots of them
find their way-down to Canouan to fish
where they have better grounds, where
they can make a better catch; but they

can't find their way back with that
catch, they want somewhere to store that
fish so that they could keep in good
condition for the consumption of the
people on the mainland. That is our
role the role that we have to play. If
we didn't do that in the Grenadines, we
would not be pulling our weight. We
have to pull our weight, and we intend
to pull our weight so you need not try
to say that the cold storage plant is for
the benefit of Olive Tannis. Mr. Presi-
dent that is incorrect.
(A voice: That's what made you go
over in January).
HoN. C. L. TANNIS: Well maybe that
or something, there is nothing wrong
with that. I am not the first politician
who has crossed the floor, and if I cross
the floor in the interest of my country,
Mr. President what is wrong with that?
Is it better to sit in the Opposition Sir
and retard the progress of .your country
or to cross the floor and assist in the
progress? Which is better? Sir Wins-
ton Churchill crossed the floor, don't
tell me men in England don't do it? It
has been done so you need not think
that is any disgrace. And I stand for
principles which I once agitated for on
that side, and I would see them imple-
mented. That's all. What's wrong with
you, the Honourable Member for South
Leeward, is that you are being taken for
a ride. You would one day catch up.
Mr. President, Pioneer Status; The
Honourable Member for South Leeward
said that this Government would not
give Pioneer Status to people who want
to come in and put up industries. Why
not? Mr. President the Honourable
Member got up in this House this morn-
ing and criticised the Government for
not giving Pioneer Status to people who
want to come in and set up industries.
Can the Honourable Member for South
Leeward state what set or sets of people
who wanted to come in to put down in-
dustries in this country that were denied
Pioneer Status? Of course Mr. President
I said it before and I don't want to say
it twice, but it is very distressing when
a Member of the House who should lead
the people or guide the people of this
country make such irresponsible state-

ments of the beer factory-perhaps his
beer factory. As far as I know Sir, no
company has ever applied to this Gov-
ernment for Pioneer Status for putting
down 'any beer factory Sir. If it were
so Sir, it was the former Government.
(A voice:) You are only there for
a few months, you don't know).
iON. C. L. TANNIS: Mr. President, the
Honourable Member does not know that
there are such people who run the Gov-
ernment as Principal Secretaries and
who would know what is happening in
the Government. It is not the Ministers
who alone run the Government, you have
a Civil Service geared up and trained to
assist in carrying out the policies. He
seems not to know, yet he has a right to
know, Mr. President because he was
once in'the Government and he had a
right to know what was going on in the
Government, but he seems not to know.
I don't blame him because it is nearing
election time Sir, and my friend-has the
right to put the Government off mark if
.he could, but I think he has failed
Now I would just like to draw the
attention to the public bath at Edin-
boro.. What is wrong with the opening
of a public bath whether it cost $800 or
$10,000. No matter how little or how
great the sum, it is an improvement to
that district. And if the Government
thought it fit to open this bath why
should the Opposition Members criticise
the Government for opening the bath.
And what is wrong Sir for one of the
Honourable Ministers to bave a cocktail
party at his home? At his own expense,
Mr. President, he did it; and the Mem-
bers of the Opposition have their cock-
tail Dirties at their homes, nobody criti-
cises them for having a cocktail party.
But it is the private funds of the Min-
ister. When you pay a Minister a sal-
ary it is no longer taxpayers funds,
and if you did the same job as a Min-
ister you would be paid. Is he not paid
as a Member of this Council, and if he
cares to take the stipends he receives
as a Member of this Council and have
a party who can criticise him? Well

in any organised civilised country, Mr.
Piesi.ent, the Ministers have functions;
they have cocktail parties and even
though they are not Ministers they can
have cocktail parties when they care to.
What is wrong with that? The Mem-
ber for Kingstown criticised because
they had a cocktail party after the
opening of the bath. The thing is
Mr. President the Ex Minister had
cocktail party during his time, nobody
criticised him. I was then in the Opposi-
tion I didn't criticise him. For what?
It is natural and it is necessary. These
things show that there is a certain
amount of envy, hate, malice existing.
Let us take envy, hate and malice and
put them aside and let us deal with the
Government. After all the Government
demands a certain amount of respect.
Thle Dpposition must have their respect
tco, I respect every member of the Oppo-
sition but I don't respect the Members of
the Oppc.sition when they use their in-
telligence to do things that are not right
or to say things that are not right. Mr.
P residentt I feel the statement of open-
ing a bath and having a cocktail party-
the cocktail party is no business of this
House Sir. If the Member for Kings-
town wants to criticise the fact that he
was not invited to the opening of the
bath, yes he has a right to do so; any
members of the Opposition who was not
invited to the opening of the bath I say
yes, Sir.
(Hon. H. F. Young across the table:
It is my constituency and I was not
HON. C. L. TANNIS: I agree, and he
has a right Mr. President but why did
he n t say this morning Mr. President
that he was not invited and on the
grounds of being the Member for South
Leev, ard he had a right to be invited. He
talked all morning imputing improper
motives Sir because he was not invited to
the opening of the public bath, look how
simple the Opposition could be Sir. The
Member for Kingstown is also disturbed
because it would be his constituency for
contesting the seat in the next election;

Mr. President why beat around the bush
introduce a motion of censurship to come
and say I was not invited to the opening
of a public bath. How foolish it is, wast-
ing a whole day to come here and tell
us he had a right to be invited to the
opening of a public bath and a cocktail
party. Mr. President, I wish to ask the
Minister please in future do not em-
barrass the Members of the Opposition
that they have to move a motion to
remind them that they had to be invited
to a public function. I think in future
the Government would see to it that the
Members of the Opposition are invited
to public functions.
Mr. President active steps have been
taken and are being taken for the re-
building of the Cotton Ginnery. In all
Government machinery there is this
slow turn of the wheel, Sir, especially
Sir when funds are not available and
forthcoming readily. How can you
build back the Cotton Ginnery over-
night when you are a grant-aided terri-
tory and you have to go the Federal
Government and to the Secretary of
State for every move of the rebuilding
of the Cotton Ginnery. And Mr. Presi-
dent the Honourable Member for South
Leeward who was a former Member or is
still a member of the Cotton Ginnery
Board knows better, and he is supposed
to know better if he is worth his salt
Mr. President.
HON. H. F. YOUNG: Mr. President, on
a point of order if you would allow me ..
Mr. PRESIDENT: The Honourable Mem-
ber is not giving way he has the floor.
HON. C. L. TANNIS: Mr. President I
am not going to be interrupted by the
Honourable Member for South Leeward,
I am fed up with his interruptions Sir,
I shall continue. If he gets up on a
good point of order I shall sit but not
interruptions like that. He has a right
to know. Mr. President I must say that
responsible men on responsible boards
who are supposed to enlighten the pub-
lic or their constituency should not come
here to tell you Sir, that no effort has
been made to replace the Cotton Gin-

nery when he knows Sir, that Govern-
ment has done all that lies in its power
to assist in getting the cotton ginned
at Barbados and to get plans for re-
building of the Cotton Ginnery. The
point is Mr. President I would like the
Opposition to know that all active steps
are being taken to procure enough
money to rebuild the Cotton Ginnery.
I am in no position to go any further
on the matter; the Honourable Member
is a member of the Cotton Ginnery
Board and he has the right to know.
Mr. President he mentioned that the
Government has been trying to keep
the masses ignorant. What can be
more adverse to the truth than a state-
ment like that made by the Honourable
Member for South Leeward. It has been
Sir, and he knows very well with limited
finance at our disposal the first policy
the policy of the last Government was
to take care of the primary education.
It was given priority-primary and sec-
ondary education, adult education came
after on the programme. It was the
policy of not only this Govqrnment Sir,
but of the last Government of which
he was a part Mr. President, and he
criticises now that same policy. Where
are we heading for Mr. President? The
point is that with the limited funds at
the disposal of the Government, one
cannot introduce all privileges, and who
would rather like to play over the heads
of the people the Government or the
Opposition? Let us see the Members
of the Government and the Members of
the Opposition, and let us find out. Mr.
President in the Grenadines we can
boast of one fact that on the average
nearly every person in the Grenadines
has gone to a school of some sort, so
one need not throw that on me because
I would not be part or parcel of that
and I know the Government would not
support such a policy. But the Opposi-
tion must of course try to find little
points on which to hit the Government.
But not when the Leader for the Oppo-
sition himself agrees with thie policy

which the Government now carries for-
ward. He agreed here in this House;
lack of finance, and not very long the
Government feels Sir that they should
try to take care of the situation of adult
education and that cannot be done
overnight. He talks about association
with the DLP. Of course if you are
not affiliated with the FEDS which form
the Federal Government you must be
affiliated with the DEMS or DLP. There
must be, if this Government is an
opposition Government to the Federal
Government, they affiliated with the Op-
position party in the Federal House
what party should they be affiliated to?
Would you want the Government to be
affiliated with the Federal Labour Party
when you are affiliated with the Fed-
eral Labour Party? How can that work?
Mr. President I don't see, you must be
affiliated with one party or the other.
The Honourable Member for South Lee-
ward do not want the Chief Minister
to go to Trinidad and assist his party,
no, when he 'goes to Trinidad and he
is invited out by his party he must sit
tight in his hotel and say nothing.
Once he does not go out of the scope of
Federal politics and do not interfere
with the unit policies, it is all well and
good if you are talking federally, to
preach politics federally and do not
interfere with the particular individual
unit in which you go. But the Hon-
ourable Member for South Leeward
when he goes to Trinidad Sir, he speaks
on the FEDS platform. What is wrong
with the Chief Minister going to Trin-
idad and speaking on the Opposition
platform? There is nothing wrong with
that, they invite their members here
to Speak Sir, they invite the Feds, the
Chief Minister invites his affiliates, and
if they are here of course they have a
right as West Indians to speak in the
Market square. What is wrong with
that, why criticise the same thing that
you do? Mr. President (people) they do
the same thing. The Labour Party in
Trinidad invites people and they speak
but they must put a muzzle on the

mouth of the Chief Minister. Well Mr.
President if I am to refer to the words
of the Member for Kingstown he says
that the Chief Minister does not under-
stand and he believes that a sixth
standard boy would do better then they
should have no fear of allowing him to
speak. Mr. President you can see Sir
it is very difficult to debate the subject.
The Honourable Member for Kingstown
holds a different view from Members of
the Labour Party Mr. President.
HON. E. S. CAMPBELL: Mr. -President
on a point of order in the Hansard
there is no record of that statement
being made by me.
HON. C. L. TANNNIS: 'Mr. President it
is a very difficult situation here the
Honourable Member for Kingstown, Sir,
in his outline this morning shows you
where in the majority of points raised
here Sir, since he has left the Govern-
ment he is voting with the Government
or he is in favour of the Government
measures, very few he supported the
Opposition with Sir, and here it is Sir
.the Opposition claiming the strength of
three members well I think that we
have too many splinter parties in the
Opposition, it is time that they make a
whole party even if they have to employ
. . . ... of course I noticed a cer-
tain Nominated Member, Sir, who would
want to see me sit down and I propose
to do so Sir. I know he doesn't care to
hear me but he would only sit there to
show his solidarity with the Opposition
by offering a vote with the Opposition.
I am fully aware and I know it with-
out one shadow of a doubt for one cer-
tain Nominated Member of the House
as he has seldom expressed that he will
go all out financially or otherwise to
remove the Member of the Grenadines.
They need not waste their time, Mr.
President they should rather take that
money build a new school or set up a
clinic in this country so that when
they should have passed on from this
world they should have some land mark
in memory by their having passed

through this world. That is my word
of consolation that I would like to give
to certain Nominated "Member in this
House. At the same time Sir, whi.e the
Opposition boast of progress in this
country, they too assist in ,et, rrin,, the
progress of this country, w sen they
gang up with other Memiaei of the
Opposition who have lands he:e in this
country Sir to charge fabulous sums of
money for lands for building houses
and schools for the betterment of our
children and they harp on education,
the Honourable Members and they as-
sociate themselves with such members
who tries to deter the progie-,s o- this
country and the same poor unfortunate
masses they go to look for votes and
try they soon would be going to Ghema
again Sir. Honourable Electea Members
they are supposed to be. Those who
have ears to hear let them hear'. I
shall continue Mr. President. Mr. Presi-
dent I am not interested in what the
Chief Minister quoted or what any
Member quoted. What I am interested
in is what is to happen and what will
happen. I am not interested in what
the Minister quoted. if he quoted that
he had a right to quote it. I ai not
concerned about what he quoted. am
assured you that I am man enough to
settle my differences of opinion with
any political party or person in the in-
terest and advancement of the coun-
try and the country must come first
and not self. Too many of the poli-
ticians are putting themselves in front
of the country. I am not boasting Sir,
that I would be back in this Houie. I
am not boasting that, Sir; but I
know Sir, that the people of the Gren-
adines are satisfied with my ter.ii of
office-nine years. It has set a (iffer-
ent mark in the history of the Grena-
dines. Whosoever shall take over 'they
would have to continue because the
pace has been set which they musu fol-
low. and I would be there to see them
follow that pace Mr. President, I would
be there to see them follow that pace
whoever they proposed, they would be

putting there. Mr. President it is no
point blowing hot and cold Mr. Presi-
dent. The point is this, the Members
of the Opposition know fully well Bir,
that the limited funds at the disposal
of the Government cannot allow them
to implement the programme whncn
they thought they would have imple-
mented. What has accounted for that?
The Fedeial Government did noi make
enough money available to the St. Vin-
cent Government for the programme
which they had prepared. A te.ui of
experts were sent here and that team
reported that we would need about
$6 million. The team of expels wvas
sent here by the instance of the Fed-
eral Government and they brush it
aside reports and recommenuatiornj
aside and hand ovei to St. Vincent a
small amount of money which ast
allows you to mark time. That is not
good enough. If you want the coun-
try to pull its weight in the Federation
the Federal Government had a right
to assist in seeing that that country's
programm..e is well placed and taken
care, of during a certain period of time.
But ambitious agricultural programme
for -which they have not released any
money; a loan bank for which the
Federal Government has not made
available any money so that the peas-
ants as they now say should be sub-
sidised, should get greater and bigger
loan This Government in their slen-
der way assisted the small farmers and
the agricultural friendly societies to
the tune of $180,000 per year. Whether
it is a continuation or not this Govern-
ment is assisting the- peasants in this
country to the tune of $180,000 per year
to try to help them to plant their
crops in this country. Mr. President
we are having what you call corpora-
tives formed-corporative officers doing
a good job getting corporatives formed
so that the people could take care of
their own affairs, Sir. In time to come
Sir, we hope that funds would be made
available to those corporatives along
with their own resources and what

Government can make available, put
a better and more ambitious programme
among the peasantry into being. If,
Sir, all these things are being organised,
it is the duty of the Opposition bringing
such a motion here to tell us where
are ohe pit-falls, what are the mal-
administrations, where is the incom-
petence and mismanagement? If they
are saying so Sir, and equally blaming
the civil servants of this country which
you cannot lose sight of because the
civil service is supposed to be strong
enough and geared up enough to assist
in seeing that the policy the Govern-
ment wants to carry out move forward.
Where can they lay their blame, Sir.
They have not yet done so. They have
not yet convinced this House Mr. Presi-
dent of the maladministration and mis-
management. They have not quoted a
single instance. The whole morning only
political speeches, Mr. President. The
mover was feeble and weak in outlining
the motion and I took the winds out
of his sails when I stopped him from
reading a prepared speech that he
made at home to come here and prat-
tle off. That is not the type of speech
for a debate in a House, to prepare a
speech and come here to read it, any-
body can do that. You know so much
about a motion brought by you your-'
self, you have a right to know the
facts, and come here and debate it man-
fully. Of course Sir, one of the points
that they might accuse me for making
a bold robbing the Government was
putting into motion Sir the revision of
salaries. That again Sir, will soon be
wholly accomplished. It is partly
accomplished Sir by the fact that there
was a commission set up to go into
the salaries and soon we should have
a report, and we hope that we would
be able by that introduction of the
salaries revision to straighten out the
various levels of salaries in this coun-
try in accordance with the rising cost
of living. It has risen over a period of
years and it will continue to rise if the
trend of things remain as it is. We
have no control over that here. You

control your potatoes and you reject
bananas, you control fish, yes but who
took the control off. I am blaming my-
self as a Member of the then Govern-
ment, the Honourable Member for South
Leewa'd he was also a Member of the
Government who took off the control.
V iiy blame the Government? I am
manful enough to say that I was in the
Government when they took off the
control of fish and meat and at that
time it was right to do so. If you-agi-
tate or you are pressing for the con-
trol to be put back, be manful enough
to come here with a motion in the
House and say so. If Mr. President the
Opposition as they are manful enough
to come with this motion here today it
might have served a better purpose if
they have come with a motion of that
sort to the House asking Government
to review the fish and meat situation
with a view to putting back the control
on it. If you want to do that come
here manfully and do that then you
would be worth the salt or the grits
that you are supposed to have. If you
have that mettle in you show it out,
come here and debate it manfully and
call upon the Government to re-intro-
duce those measures.

They talk about the revision of sal-
aries, wages of workers and so forth,
that is being taken care of Sir. I once
as a Member of the Opposition said
that these things should be looked after.
The Government has been looking after
these measures and they have been im-
plemented. Then I am still at a loss
to find out from the Opposition where
is the pointing finger of this mal-
administration, mismanagement, incom-
petence. Where is it? Mr. President I
could see what is the feeling of the
Honourable Member for South Leeward.
It is difficult to have me here as a
Member of the Government bench speak-
ing on this debate. I know the Hon-
ourable Member for South Leeward
would, rather see me on the other side
and the Honourable Member for South

Windward. But Sir the point in ques-
tion that the Member for Kingstown
has brought a motion to this House for
debate and the motion must be debated
if not on what is presented here on
what they outlined this morning. And
I can say Sir, listening to the debates
this morning and the debates this
afternoon in the House Sir, that it gets
you rather on edge, Sir when you listen
to the type of speeches made on this
maladministration and incompetence. I
rather say Sir as you said this morn-
ing that perhaps the Opposition is look-
ing at its full chance to have a wide
scope of airing their views. They have
done so successfully, Sir. Airing their
views without putting forward any con-
crete suggestions. And I do feel Sir,
that the Honourable Mover has a right
to reply. I know he is going to try and
clarify my statements and I hope he
would be able to do that in brilliant
colour. And I hope Sir, as I say in
closing, I would like to leave this with
the Opposition that while I was a Mem-
ber of the Opposition I criticised the
policy of the Government and I offered
whether in the Opposition view now
healthy suggestions. I can well remem-
ber my reminding the Leader of the
Government to make certain that he
gets from the Federal Government
money for salaries increase for the
road workers when he went to Trinidad
for the budget. And I remember airing
my views on the deep water harbour,
the telephone system and the airfield.
Those were the things that I preached.
Water for the Grenadines, fishery devel-
opment, so there can be no pointing
fingers now that I have crossed the
table. I still maintain that those things
were necessary for the advancement of
this country and whether I am in the
Government or the Opposition it is my
duty to see that these things come to
St. Vincent in the interest and develop-
ment of this country. And whenever
the Opposition feels that I have changed
my line of action I can stand -their
criticisms. They have done it in season

and out of season in the market square
and throughout the length and breadth
of St. Vincent. They have come to the
Grenadines, they can come no other
place Sir than right in your homes to
spread their dirty linen. No Sir. I
am going to come here Sir and see
and talk on things as I see them Sir,
whether I am in the Government or
whether I am in the Opposition. I
thank you.

HON. A. B. DOS SANTOS: Mr. President,
after listening to the debate of the
Honourable Member for the Grenadines
on the Second Nominated Member, the
Second Nominated Member is also an..

HON. C. L. TANNIS: Mr. President on
a point of order I did not make any
statement on the Second Nominated
Member, Sir.

HON. A. C. HADLEY: Mr. President,
Honourable Members, after listening to
the debate on this motion for the whole
day, I don't think it is necessary at all
because we are going to have elections
very shortly I believe in five or six
months time and then the people would
have a chance to decide whether this
Government is capable of running the
affairs of the Colony or not, and then
if they are not satisfied with the pres-
ent Government, they can then throw it
out and put in another Government
and I honestly don't think it necessary
to bring this motion at all.
Mr. PRESIDENT: If no other Honour-
able Member wishes to speak I would
ask the Honourable Mover if he wishes
to exercise his right to reply.
HON. E. S. CAMPBELL: Mr. President,
Honourable Members, we have listened
for the greater part of today to a de-
bate on a motion brought to this House
by me. It is in its context a motion of
censure. I see the Honourable Mem-
ber for the Grenadines in the very early
stages of his opening remarks referring
to it as a motion of censorship. Well I

would remind him that you censor
things like films, you censor letters,
but censure Governments and individ-
uals. The word censure simply means
Mr. President, Honourable Members, "to
lay blame". Now we are, in this motion
laying blame on the Government for
certain things they have done and/or
certain things they have failed to do.
We are not censoring them, we are not
taking anything from them. We know
from the constitution we couldn't bring
a motion here asking for the removal
of the Chief Minister from his office,
since we only have three elected Mem-
bers on this side and they have five
elected Members on that side. Their
arguments are so inconsistent but there
it is, the Honourable Member accused
me of having brought a prepared speech
here written and prepared when the
Honourable Chief Minister said that I
didn't know until I came here so I didn't
think about my address until I came
here, look at the inconsistency of the
argument. Now Mr. President the Hon-
ourable Member for the Grenadines
I want to take the last person first and
then come to the first. I would quote
if I have the copy, the words of the
Honourable Chief Minister, his very first
opening speech where he said he had
just got up from an Alice in Wonderland
sleep. I don't think the Honourable
Member for the Grenadines has got up
from that sleep yet. Throughout the
whole course of his debate at one time
he was like an iceburg-big as an ice-
burg and at another time he was as big
as a flee. That is the type of address
the Honourable Member for the Gren-
adines brought here. In defence of a
motion of censure what is he asking us
to do? When we say we are coming
here to lay blame he is telling us to
come and bring constructive idea. We
have brought them many times to this
House, every time a motion comes be-
fore this House whether it comes from
the Opposition or the Government we
not only condemn the motion but we
make suggestions as to what can be

done in place of the motion. This is
not the time for that. Today we lay
blame upon you for certain things you
have done which are bad and for cer-
tain things you have neglected to do
which could have been done. Now -Mr.
President he comes with some childish
talk about when did this start when
he walked across the floor or before he
walked across the floor. Mr. President
I was a Member of the Government, I
quoted from Hansard that at the
beginning when I felt that the Gov-
ernment was prepared to work as a unit
I cooperated with the Government, I
did everything possible to try and get
the Government to move forward to-
wards the common objective when I
discovered that I cannot succeed with
that I walked across the floor. There-
fore this thing did not start today or
yesterday, it was something that it took
a little time to discover but from the
time that I c:i.,covered it I could not
have been of resistance, I came across,
I left them. he Honourable Member
for the Grenadines when I sat opposite
he spoke, he accused, he condemned,
he laid accusation on every member
of the Government especially the Chief
Minister and at one time the Honour-
able Chief Minister was moved to reply
to him in these words-Listen to the
words. Mr. President this is the Hon-
ourable E. T. Joshua speaking -

"Mr. President, Honourable Mem-
bers, first of all let me inform this
Member for the Grenadines that he
can make any arrogant speech he
likes ............
Listen to the tone and tenor of those
words -

"he can make any arrogant speech
he likes, he can make any insulting
speech in this Government, this is
what he must know; we would not
accept or tolerate remarks found in
subterfuge and lies about this Gov-
ernment making remarks about the

He has failed his complete tenure in
office, his complete texture o: his whole
environmental state. Mr. President
sometimes we can lose our fa- es, but
it does not necessarily mean to lose our
voices. And that is why today we had
to be bored by a speech in a jest -. m
the Honourable Member for the Gren-
adines for one hour that was drumming
on everyman's ear like a hammer you
couldn't help listening to it. Mr. Presi-
dent let us consider a ;'ew of the things,
a few of the remarks he made in his
speech: he spoke about the motion J or
$8 million which the Honourable Chief
Minister said was endorsed by the Gov-
ernment. I denied that Mr. ,President,
the Opposition passed that motion with
a clear majority from the Opposition
with three members of the Government
voting and one member -abstaining
against the motion, it was a clear
majority from the Opposition. Then
the Honourable. Chief Minister claims it
was too late and when it was submitted
to the Federal Government they had
already been awarded a certain sum of
money and therefore it could not have
been considered, but the IHonourable
Member for the Grenadines to use the
words of the Honourable Chief Minister
with subterfuge and lies as used in this
address here, page 14 of the Hansard
of 1957, wants to tell us that he is sat-
isfied that the Government did try to
get the $8 million and the Federal Gov-
ernment turned them down. He is thie
man that asked us a while ago, Mr.
President, the Honourable Member for
the Grenadines, he wants to know
where we are heading for. That is t ie
same question we ai e asking that is why
we have brought this motion. We can't
see where we are heading for and we
are giving them a chance to answer -2s
before the community itself, before the
voters themselves make their decision
and give their answer. We have giv m
them a chance to defend themselves
before the eyes of the community be-
cause Hansards would be written, it will

go down and it would be used in testi-
mony against every member of this
House whether in this next election or
in the next five year election or when-
ever it is. Now we have brought forward
a point from the Opposition here con-
cerning the Vocational School. Let me
first of all inform the Honourable Mem-
be. for the Grenadines that when this
matter of a vocational school was being
discussed in Trinidad it was being dis-
cuss~ed by the Leaders of the Govern-
ment of the Windward Islands and
when the Leaders of the Governments
of the Windward Islands met to discuss
it with the American authorities they
couldn't find the Leader of the Gov-
ernment of St. Vincent ,-' it was in
my room that the Honour -le Finan-
cial Secretary now in St. Lucia car e
to find me to represent St. Vincent's.
views, so the Honourable Chief Minister
does not know anything about t;.is.
When this was discussed ie Honoura" 'e
Chief Minister did not k--, anyth:'i:r
about it, why should I now turn m d
oppose it. I have not attempted t"
oppose the building of a Vocational
School in St. Vincent, I am opposing
the siting of that school because I con-
sidbr that it could be better sited at the
relics of the Cotton Ginnery building
and the Cotton Ginnery building could
be placed at Arnos Vale and the Rich-
mond Hill playing Field can be left for
the sports activities of the primary
school children of St. Vincent. But
this Honourable Member for the Gren-
adines with deception, s"bterfuge (that
is the word used here) absurdities, con-
undrums and tales told by idiots over
there, full of sound an-- fury signifying
nothing. Those are all the words used
to describe the Honourable Member for
the Grenadines, the Chief Minister him-
self used them. He co-es here and he
carefully disregards the fact that we
have said we oppose the siting of that
school, -nd he wants to make out that
we oppose the school. WVe are doing no
such thing, we are not idiots full of

sound and fury signifying nothing. We
try to make sense of what we say not as
silly as the speech that has been deliv-
ered by the Honourable Member.
Now he speaks about housing. I be-
lieve the Government is making some
effort towards housing especially in
certain areas like North Windward and
Central Windward. But let us see what
the Government has done in two places:
at Canehall they built a barracks taking
the people out of individual houses and
putting them once more in barracks to
live, and at Colonarie they have not
improved the lot, what they have done
is to build the same one-room house,
they have only changed it from mud
and thatch to cement and galvanize,
that's all that they have done. So
wretched disgraceful things on the sides
of the roads when the money could
have been better used to build better
houses for the poor people to live in.
Therefore whatever money they are
claiming that they are spending on
housing they are only wasting it and
it could be spent better. That is why
this motion is brought. It is a motion
to lay blame on the Government for
things that they have done which are
bad and things they have not done that
they should have done. The Honour-
able Member for the Grenadines con-
tinues to speak about potatoes. What
the Marketing Board has done is simply
to eliminate middle men who came
from St. Vincent went to Trinidad on the
boat and dealt with potatoes, and then
institute the middle men in Trinidad
who make the profit in Trinidad instead
of the Vincentian making the profit. The
Marketing Board can be an improve-
ment, but as it is it certainly is not an
improvement when you are paying a
fantastic 10% to a firm in Trinidad who
market your potatoes and they are not
marketing them any better than the
individuals who travelled on the Madi-
nina and Carib Clipper carrying the
potatoes to' Trinidad are doing it. The
Marketing Board has'failed, and it is
time that the Government decides to
re-organise the whole setting of the

Marketing Board before the whole mat-
ter crumbles. Mr. President it does not
make sense commenting on any other
thing that the Honourable Member for
the Grenadines has said; what he said
was not really material to the motion
before the House. He has attempted to
criticise every Member sitting on this
side of the House and he has even in-
cluded the Nominated Members in his
Now Mr. President let us consider
the Minister for Communications and
Works, well of course we realise by now
that he was giving a bed-time story-a
sort of (nancy) nonsense story of the
whole thing. My Honourable friend op-
posite do not realise the significance of
the matter that has been placed before
them, perhaps the only man that has
a spattering knowledge of a motion of
censure is the Chief Minister himself
who tried his best but failed miserably
in that he did not defend himself
against the allegation made in this that
he is culpable, that he is to be blamed.
The Honourable Minister for Communi-
cations and Works got up and admitted
everything I said about him-all the
criticisms I had about his policies al
far as the Ministry of Communications
and Works is concerned. But after
agreeing with what I said he went back
and disagreed and condemned himself.
Now Mr. President we all know the
story of the development of Richmond.
First of all South Rivers was built then
there was an overload you had more
consumers than you had electricity to
supply and they had to resort to an
interim measure of installing two diesel
plants in Kingstown to supplement the
supply. Whilst the diesel plants were
trying to keep abreast to keep pace they
started to investigate the possibility of
Richmond for a scheme. When they
had investigated that they sent their
proposals to Government and that is
when Government came in the matter.
It wasn't at any instant of any elected
Member or any Member speaking at
Chateaubelair or any Minister of Gov-
ernment. It was C.D.C'. because they

realized they had a responsibility placed
upon them to supply electricity for St.
Vincent. And consonant with that it
devolved upon them to do everything
that is possible to provide an adequate
supply for St. Vincent.

Now Mr. President my summary of
this motion of censure brings me into
certain comments that resulted as a
result from speeches on this side of
the House and this brings me to the
address of the Honourable Member for
South Leeward. Now Mr. President I
Lelieve that yoa would agree with me
that I would be the very last to attack
you Sir, in connection with any of your
duties as Speaker of this House or as
Her Majesty's representative in St. Vin-
cent. But when it comes to the point
Sir of your entering a debate as a Min-
ister of Government or as an Official
of Government responsible for certain
departments of Government, then Sir,
you have automatically opened your-
self to attacks from either side of the
House. You mentioned Sir, that you
are responsible for Police and Defence
in St. Vincent. I want to ask you Sir
that with your responsibility for de-
fence of police in St. Vincent-it is part
of this motion, Sir, how long would you
allow St. Vincent to have a number of
underpaid and overworked men in the
Police Force and then you rise on this
motion Sir in defence of Gbvernment
that is unconcerned about the whole
affair, is not making a stir to see to it
that funds are provided not only for
increasing the numbers of the force
which is necessary but also for increas-
ing the salaries paid to these officers.
Mr. President, we have another issue
that comes as a result of the address
of the Honourable Member for South
Leeward: it concerns the Youth Centre
etc. issue. Now quite a lot of talk was
made about that; but I want to ask
this question Sir of the Government-
there were -two applications from two
independent concerns for concessions as
far as cinemas are concerned. I can-

not say whether both applications
reached the Executive Council or not
but I can say safely that both applica-
tions reached the Central Housing and
Planning Atithority. Now on the one
hand there is Mr. Russell, Secretary of
one concern and on the other hand
there is Mr. 0. C. Forde Secretary of
another concern. Here it is I see the
Government is going all out-this is the
point that this side is making Sir Gov-
ernment is going all out to find a con-
cession for Mr. Russell while they are
not making a single stir about the Mr.
Forde, and to climax that Sir, Mr. Rus-
sell is already running a cinema. I am
not suggesting that there is anything
corrupt or anything like that Mr. Rus-
sell might be a friend of the Govern-
ment but what I am saying, the Hon-
ourable Attorney General if he were
in his seat would say the same thing
too, because in court they tell you that
justice must not only be done but it
must be abundantly apparent that it
were done. I am not saying that the
Government is corrupt or is being cor-
rupt in this, but I am saying that in
the office of Ministers of St. Vincent
whatever they do should not only be
justice and equity to citizens of St. Vin-
cent but it must be apparent that such
is done with justice and equity to all.
Why are we going to encourage a
monopoly of cinemas when we can
create a competition and make the
standards of the gift to the community
betteA. Therefore I am not accusing
the Government, I repeat, of corruption,
hut it points towards that Mr. Presi-
dent. Now let us take the question of
the Airport as brought up by the Hon-
ourable Member for South Leeward also.
Here it is we have given a contract to
a gentleman to put up the terminal
buildings but insp-te of the fact that
we have given the contract to that
gentleman we can spare three Govern-
ment officers wholetime to sit down
there and look at the contractor do his
work. We can spare three Government
officers to sit down on those premises

doing nothing else. If we could have
spared those three Government officers
why couldn't we have let those three
Government Officers do the contract
and save some money on the whole pro-
ject. We are not saying that there is
corruption in it but we are saying that
all these things point in this direction.
Mr. President let us now take the
address of the Honourable Chief Min-
ister: As usual Mr. President he has
confounded this House with his as-
tounding logic. He spoke about Aris-
totle-Aristotle once proved in a simple
way that a statement that all men are
liars could not be true. He proved it
simply by the knowledge of the fact
that the statement was made by a man
and therefore that man was lying and
therefore the statement could not pos-
sibly be true. In the same manner Sir,
the logic of the Chief Minister con-
founds his whole stand. He read my
addresses delivered a month after my
entering into politics and two months
after. At that time I said that you
can't expect the Government to do cer-
tain things in one month but the Min-
ister has not got up from that Alice in
Wonderland sleep yet. He thinks it is
still a month from the 4th October,
1057. You waited a month, you waited
two months you waited twelve months,
eighteen months, it is thirty-six months
now and very little i3 being done. He
hasn't got up from that Alice in Won-
derland sleep yet and he thinks it is
one month. Mr. President I made an
unfortunate statement, the records of
Hansard didn't ask me to withdraw that
statement. Who hasn't made unfortun-
ate statements? At one time I heard
distinctly with my ears, I am forced
Sir, because I am quoting, to call the
Honourable Member for North Leeward
by this name. "Slater is a traitor to
his country." I heard that at the mar-
ket square. Two months later I heard
from the same lips-"Comrades I once
told you that Slater was a traitor to
his country, I was mistaken; he is an
honour to his country." That is not
the end of it, in 1957 I was with the

People's Political Party and he paraded
throughout the length and breadth of
North Leeward and the worst things
were said one about the other and then
one month later the same Honourable
Member for North Leeward was admit-
ted to the party. Who has not made
an unfortunate statement Sir. The Hon-
ourable Chief Minister in his address
alludes to my resignation from the
People's Political Party and he has
alleged that I was aspiring to Leader-
ship of the people of St. Vincent. Let
me ask this question Sir, in my defence
let me ask this question:-When the
Honourable Chief Minister at that time
Member for North Windward resigned
from the Eigth Army founded a party
and the draft of that party included in
a clause "E. Theodore Joshua Leader
of this Party for life" wasn't he aspir-
ing to Leadership of the people of St.
Vincent? And hasn't he not succeeded
in reaching leadership and has he ac-
credited himself well for all that Mr.
President? History would tell. One man
is wrong to have his own views, but
Christ is always right, and my friend
opposite wants to emulate Christ. Mr.
President where we are, we have a sit-
uation opposite us-a situation that is
a part of this motion of censure. There
would be very little offence from the
point of view of this side of the House
if after. the Honourable Member for the
Grenadines had tendered his resigna-
tion f.om his substantive party and
walked across the Government had said
well hc e is a chap who had been a
Minister before, has the experience oE
running a ministry, he has a goo
knowledge, good education and we can
use him. Let us make him the Minis-
ter of Social Services; but no they didn't
do that, they let the Honourable Mem-
ber for North Windward to be Minister
for Social Services and there the Hon-
ourable Member for the Grenadines
sits as a professional Member, Mr. Pres-
ident. A professional lawyer takes a
case to courts and his client pays hirr.
Let us take one of the last allegations
that the Honourable Chief Minister has

made: he ended his speech on this note
that the reason for this motion of cen-
sure is that each of us sitting up here
has a love for money. Mr. President
here we have the Honourable Member
for South Windward, he was already in
the Executive Council of St. Vincent and
he resigned and sat on the opposite side.
Here you have your humble servant
speaking-I was there and- I resigned
and I sat here. Here we have the Hon-
ourable Member for South Leeward, he
was voted eight votes against one to
place him, to sit over there and he de-
clined. Who therefore must cast the
stone, is it the one without sin or the
one who has all the world of sin weigh-
ing him down? Mr. President this Hon-
ourable House would know, the com-
munity at large would know. Now Mr.
President with this motion of censure
that has been placed before this House,
it reads-

"BE IT RESOLVED that this Council
affirms its lack of faith and confidence
in the Government and expresses its
dissatisfaction at the incompetence
and maladministration in the man-
agement of the affairs of St. Vincent
and the Grenadines."
It is an attempt to make the Govern-
ment well aware that the facts con-
-cerning corruption, maladministration
and incompetence are well to this side
of the House, and we are asking them
to try ani run the Government on a
better note than that. I could not dis-
agree more with the Honourable Third
Nominatedi Member when he says that
a motion like this is not necessary, it
should wait on an election. We are
here as elected representatives, of the
people. We can express our opinions
and this is one way of expressing our
opinions on the several measures that
have not been brought before this
House. The Youth Centre deal was not
brought except by the Opposition. The
fact that a gentleman is going to get
a portion of the areas zoned for hos-

pital development, has not been brought
here before this House except by the
Opposition in this debate. The siting
of the Vocational School at the Rich-
mond Hill Playing Field has not been
brought before this House except by
the Opposition in this debate. All the
matters that. have been raised it is our
only means of bringing them before
this House if we do not mean to cluster
the agenda with a series of motions
dealing with the same topic. Therefore
in order to discuss all these topics even
the oil matter which came up this
morning, it was necessary to place a
motion of censure which gives wide
latitude to discuss the overall policies of
Government. Now the Members of the
Government Sir, have not attempted to
defend themselves against this motion,
despite the overwhelming strength, the
overwhelming facts which have been
put forward on this case this motion
by the Opposition, they have not made
any attempt whatsoever to defend
themselves against it. All that they
have done is point on individuals on
this side of the House, as they pointed
at one time at the the Honourable Mem-
ber for South Leeward and another
time at my friend from South Wind-
ward, at another time to me. All that
they have done, they pointed and made
some personal accusation. Now Mr.
President, if we were in the position on
that side, we would certainly have :lone
things which we can stand up to in
this Honourable House and defend our-
selves about. But the point about it is,
that there are quite a number of secrets
which could not be revealed; that is
why we sat here this morning and lis-
tened to questions being answered-the
reply is in the negative, or simply yes,
or simply no. They have secrets to
hide, therefore they cannot stand up
and defend themselves, they have to
attack' you. Like a friend decides t-
call me a fool and my defence against
him is to go and hit him a bang. That
is what has happened this morning,
that is the only defence which the Gov-

ernment has put forward this morning
to this motion. Now we have laid cer-
tain facts bare today during the whole
course of this. debate showing the
Government where they have erred and
showing them that they need to bestir
themselves to new activities if they
want to prove themselves before the
community and not only before this
House but before the whole community,
they are saying the Government has
done nothing and continues to do
nothing. The Road Programme has
been something old and ancient. Mes-
opotamia was well supplied with roads
from the Feeder Road Programme be-
fore 1957. Water Supply is a matter of
ages trying to solve the water shortage.
Majorka water supply dates before 1957,
Vermont Waters supply started before
the election started in 1957. All these
are routine matters that is the point
we are making, with a C.D. & W. vote
*and .why can't the Government go out,
not to find money to pass through the
Government treasury but to find people
who would come in willingly and
readily to invest some money. They
would make some money for them-
selves but they are going to de-
velop the community with the money
they invest, go out and try and
get money to come into this country.
When you have done that, then we will
say that progress has been made, not
just taking 540,000 or whatever it is,
the Honourable Member for the Gren-
adines said dollars but I believe it is
pounds, not just taking 540,000 and
put down roads, water and a few baths
here and schools, those are necessary
but that is in the routine run of things.
We want to get more vision, more im-
agination, better economic planning, we
want to get things economically imag-
inative, politically colorful coming
from the mouthpieces of the high
offices of state. Therefore Mr. Presi-
dent with that Sir, I commit this
motion to the House in the full
knowledge that what this motion says
is what the majority of this community
thinks, concerning the Government now

in power. Mr. President, Honourable
Members, I beg to move.

HON. E. T. JOSHUA: Mr. President,
Honourable Members, I said plainly my
quota on this motion this morning, it
was as clear as the light. The Member
for Kingstown does not admit that any-
body else is intelligent in, the world
than he himself and that conceit we
won't worry with, the .bulk of the
motion. There are three points which
I must defend this Government on
irrespective to the fact that His Hon-
our is de facto over the police, yet he
decides decisions; it is unfair to say
that he deals with police, absolutely
when it comes to finance and improve-
ment of the police force. He is not an
absolute dictator who says what must
be allocated to the police force, it is
brought before the- Executive Council
and if matters of improvement ought
to be done they are done by the whole
Executive Council and the Honourable
Member for Kingstown fully well knows
that. He knows exactly how an Execu-
tive Council is run, he was there for
over a year and then he should have
known not to make such a dishonest
statement in this House. The question
is the Police like any other branch of
the Civil Service cannot get indiscrim-
inate ad hoc raise of pay, it has to be
done in the very round and they know
that no election propaganda, no politi-
cal propaganda, can usurp their way of
thinking to think otherwise. We have
gone all out of the way to get the per-
mission to sit for the Windward Islands
as well as the Leeward Islands, and it
is only by a relevant commission set up
to investigate salaries throughout the
territories that raise of pay can come.
And it is very dishonest that this mem-
ber above all dishonest meanderings to-
day that he should refer to that in the
sense of trying to convince the public
that nothing is done for the police. We
are in Budget Sessions now, we are
preparing our estimates, and it is won-
derful to know that everything is being

done to adopt to the fullest the recom-
mendations of the Superintendent of
Police. So therefore I must make that
one point unmistakably clear here how
highly equivocal and dishonest that
statement is, full well knowing that
the Member for Kingstown understands
what happens in the Executive Council
when items are put up or any depart--
ment including the Police Department.
I make this warning because that is
why its members like those who know
better and who just for a political end
try to get at the young policemen to
make them unfaithful to their duty and
to usurp Colonial rights when such
things are being spoken in the Legisla-
tive Council here.

Now there' was a fact, this theatre
business, these things are being played
upon and more nefariously being play-
ed upon to give false impressions to the
public. No one is interested in Mr.
Russell as such as any proprietor, many
of the men on the opposite side know
that. The fact remains that in our
country when we talk about social ser-
vices and the rest we need not deceive
ourselves. There are little things like
a cinematograph and the rest of it, we
hardly have a cinema in St. Vincent,
and these members know it save and
except they blind their eyes to what
they see, the little palaces abroad to
what (we call cinema what) we have
here. It is unfair therefore, to use
anyone to hurl improper motives at the
Government when it comes relevantly
that it is the Government concern in
the social movement of the people to
relax and to give thel a chance to
get recreation; any civilised democratic
Government is as much concerned with
people and no one should be so adverse
to hurl improper motives for everything.
You have been listening to this debate,
Gentlemen, in this House today and
there was not a slight, the single par-
ticle of the debate that improper
motives of corruption wasn't hurled at
the Government. He that hath these

things at the forefront of his mind is
first and foremost to hurl them. Mr.
Forde in living memory, the Member for
Kingstown who was once Minister for
Communications and Works knows very
well that it was our job to find docu-
ments from the Ministry of Communi-
cations and Works, as when a fort is
to be handed over to the enemy, well
the Colonel gives orders to break up
rifles and blow the fuse so that the
enemy won't get ammunition to use upon
them. In the Ministry for Communi-
cations and Works after the Member
for Kingstown left there, there were
certain things that could not be found
and from his attitude in this House we
have all reasons to believe-not im-
puting improper motives-to say how
those documents went. Therefore noth-
ing there was found that Mr. Forde was
ever interested in any cinema what-
ever, therefore the present proprietors
of the theatre (who) wanted to expand
their trade. This Membe: blows hot
and cold at the same ti -e. He was
just speaking of private enterprise .....

HoN. E. S. CAMPBELL: Mr. President
on a point of order I never said that
Mr. Forde applied to Government, I said
he applied to Central -Housing and Plan-
ning Authority.

IHON. E. T. JOSHUA: This Member for
Kingstown was speaking of private en-
terprise, was speaking of bringing in
people in the country and it is only
citizens who through malice and roads
that lead to selfishness and malice
comes here and projects a debate as
high as a geyser of Iceland to air what
they call their spleen on the Govern-
ment under pretence of bringing points
to bear, to show them and direct them.
What we heard in this Honourable
House today is nothing of the kind and
the Third Nominated Member was at-
tacked, he was in his rights to make
his speech here, and what the Hon-
ourable Third Nominated Member said
was quite right, it is a day wasted. This

motion the ulterior motive behind this
was to just come here to show up
Government Members to contemptuous
ridicule and as usual in the type of
chacs that was created by the Opposi-
tiGn stampeding the House. If they
think that the President would not have
been in the Chair here today when
they begin to show up the Government
to contemptuous ridicule and to make.
unfair and unjust remarks, the object
of the motion moved this morning by
the Honourable Member for Kingstown.
The last point I have to make clear-
Government Officers to watch the ter-
minal building: that is another unfair
remark, but for that remark I would
take my seat because those are the
only three remarks worthy of some
reference here by me. It is right that
during contractual periods there is
someone that must be appointed to
watch the Government interest in see-
ing things go fair a competent
person of the Public Works; but there
it is we expect the Member as usual to
exaggerate on anything he says-equiv-
ocations, exaggerations, mountains out
of mole hills to give an opinion. That
i3 the way that, Member-the cunning
Member for Kingstown behaves at all
times. And therefore it is true that
Mr. Francis being a builder and now
confirmed as Deputy Superintendent has
a right to pass occasionally and in-
spect work under the direction of the
Superintendent of Works, he has all
right to be deputed by the Superinten-
dent of Public Works to inspect and
see the quality of the work that is being
done at any site of any building of the
Government of St. Vincent. It is out
of the Members province to interfere
with such, he has no right, it is im-
pertinent to that end and so Mr. Presi-
deht those are the only three points
that have some material bearing in the
debate in the Member's summing up.
Police, this perpetual question-there is
a set of men here as soon as they make
out to see to it that somebody did make
a living they gang up in every board

in every statement and try to humbug
him but once this Government is in
power here and I am at the head of
it I would see that that type of vin-
dictiveness stop in St. Vincent as far
as I can.
Mr. PRESIDENT: Honourable Members,
there is a motion before the House the
motion standing in the name of the
Honourable Member for Kingstown.
Those in favour? (Vote taken 3 for).
Those against? (Vote taken 6 against).
The motion is therefore lost by 6 votes
to three.
Mr. PRESIDENT: I now call on the
Honourable Minister for Social Services
to move the motion standing in her
IHON. MRS. Ivy JOSHUA: Mr. Presi-
dent, Honourable Members,
BA IT RESOLVED that this House ap-
prove the written specification of the
boundaries of the town of Kingstown
prepared by the Commissioners ap-
painted by the Administrator on the
14th day of June, 1960, by virtue of
section 2 of the Towns Boundaries
Ordinance (Cap. 212), and that the
new boundaries be as follows:-
A line commencing from the point
where the Sion Hill/Arnos Vale Crown
lands' boundary meets the sea, along
this boundary to the Windward High-
way; thence northerly along the
Windward Highway to a point on
Ronald Llewllyn's boundary and along
a straight line to the junction on
Hunte/David Seales boundary with
the Dorsetshire Hill road, following
the Dorsetshire Hill- road to where
it meets the Leonard Phillips/Thomas
Mascoll boundary; thence in a
straight line to Gibson Corner, along
the Leeward Highway to its inter-
section ,with the St. George/St. An-
drew Parish boundary and along this
boundary to the sea.
HON. E. T. JOSHUA: I beg to second
the motion Mr. President.

HON. H. F. YOUNG: Mr. President, I
was trying to follow the line here, and
I am going to say it, that the Minister
whilst reading left out quite a lot of
this, it is a fact, and I don't know I
would like the motion to be read a
second time, or somebody else to read
it for me because she skipped out a lot
of things, went down below and I am
at a loss.
Mr. PRESIDENT: The motion before
the House is the motion standing on
the Order Paper, it has been moved
and seconded.
HON. H. F. YOUNG: Mr. President, for
the information of this side of the House
can you give us some light on the par-
ticular motion what it means, maybe
the Crown Attorney can help.

HON. B. F. DIAS: Mr. President, Hon-
ourable Members, according to the
Town boundaries ordinance the Gover-
nor, now the Administrator, may ap-
point a commission to go into the town
boundary, not only Kingstown but other
towns in the island. This commission
was appointed on the 14th June, 1960
to arrange the new boundaries for
Kingstown in time for the next election
of the Kingstown Board., They have
drawn specifications and according to
the ordinance the specifications must
come to the Governor to be considered
by him. If he approves, then the Gov-
ernor, in this case the Administrator
must present them to the Legislative
Council, and if the Legislative Council
by resolution approves of these bound-
aries, then a notice is published in the
Gazette by the Administrator that the
Legislative Council has approved of the
new boundaries of the Kingstown Board.
That has been done, and now the offi-
cers of the Board will go around doing
their enumeration, but this is following
the Ordinance; the procedure is follow-
ing the Ordinance.

lION. H. F. YOUNG: Did th1v jing-
town Board accept it?

HON. B. F. DIAS: Yes it did.

HON. LH. F. YOUNG: Therefore it is a
question of extending the boundaries.

HON. B. F. DIAS: I might add Sir for
the Benefit of Members that not only
have they accepted it but they drafted
an amendment to the Ordinance con-
taining exactly the same thing.

Mr. PRESIDENT: Honourable Members,
there is a motion before the House the
motion standing in the name of the
Honourable Minister for Social Services,
those in favour?
(Motion passed 11 to Nil with 1 ab-

Mr. PRESIDENT: The motion is there-
fore carried.
Cortisone and ACTH (Control) Bill.
Legislative Council (Contracts with
Government) (Disqualification)
Banana Growers Association
(Amendment) Bill.
Motor Vehicles and Road Traffic
Amendment) Bill.

HON B. F. DIAS: Mr. President, Hon-
ourable Members, I beg to move that
this Honourable House be adjourned
sine die.

HON. I. D. B. CHARLES: I second the

HON. H. F. YOUNG: Mr. President,
Honourable Members, my friend the
Member for the Grenadines-I had no
intention to speak but I cannot leave
something so important especially when
it comes to agriculture. My friend said
that T am a Member of the Cotton Gin-

nery Board and he is quite right. As
the President, Sir, of the St. Vincent
Cotton Growers' Association we were
intelligent and sensible enough to co-op
members of the Ginnery, Mr. President,
on our organisation for a question of
smooth running. Having done that the
Association felt that we also should
have a Member of the Board, and this
is only for the sake of information of
the House it is no controversy. When
I was appointed by my Association with
the full knowledge of Government as
a Member of the Cotton Ginnery Board
in place of Mr. W. J. Abbott, one meet-
ing the Honourable Financial Secretary
is here and he knows, the other, and
the Cotton Ginnery is burnt and
gone to pieces. At no time the Chair-
man has called us or called a meeting
or had the courtesy as the Governing
body to report that the Ginnery is
burnt. So now that he is Acting Min-
ister for Trade and Production please
take it up so that I can get a better
knowledge of what is going on.
The question of potatoes you wanted
to defend, I am not for one moment
criticising the St. Vincent Marketing
Board, I can assure you Mr. President
that I actually assisted in forming the
Marketing Board along with the then
Minister of Trade and Production and
as one who lived in Trinidad and having
a lot of knowledge and I actually ran
a business similar to that nature and
I want to say this that any man start-
ing a new business and it is good for
you and the Government to hear there
might be some changes or when some-
body actually goes on the spot and tells
you something it is not criticism that
you are wrong, it is to try and amend
what we. all want to put right; so this
is what I am reporting to this House
about this questi-a of potatoes-in the
first instance the Marketing Board did
not find a market for potatoes. The
potatoes were marketed in Trinidad
even before I was born, you know too
well because your father had vessels
even before you were born ..........

Mr. PRESIDENT: My father had no
HON. H. F. YOuNG: And the question
of the Marketing, the business is the
demand for the potatoes; but what we
thought Sir is that the producer was
taken for a ride by a few speculators.
It is being honest so we figured that
the Marketing Board would come into
being and take away what those specu-
lators were making from the producer
and turn it back to the producer which
eventually would help the country and
the incentive to grow. The Marketing
Board when the ordinance was passed
to take over sweet potatoes for your
information like every crop demanding
supplies, potatoes at that time by virtue
of the drought was in demand and Mr.
Sprott rightly monopolised that thing
because there was a dareand for .it and
for your information speculators pay as
much as $10, $12 and sometimes $2,
$3. At the time when they took
over was the time we could ha.-
got $10 or $12 but nevertheless th..t
wasn't so bad even though we got 83
because a regular market and a con-
tinuity you would agree with me would
be better. But this is not the point-
the big point is this, when we set up
the Marketing Board we arranged to
set up a marketing depot in Trinidad
and that marketing depot would have
gone to assist the consumer in Trini-
dad instead of a set of speculators. It
is the set up in Trinidad that is wrong,
if you go back into your files you would
see the recommendation to get the
C.D. & W. grant, you would see the
whole picture. The memoranda had to
be drawn up as you would know as a
member of Ex. Co. What has hap-
pened now they have gone down and
given a firm the agency for the pota-
toes, the boys like Grafton and Findlay
who were buying potatoes for years
would know the job of selling, potatoes
have actually offered to pay here right
on the spot so that Mr. Quesnel & Co.,
who own Hi-Lo, a food store running
from Sangre Grande all through the
Oil fields of Trinidad, is sending East

Indian boys down to the wharf-I am
just from (Trinidad) there and this is
no criticism to the Government it is
something you can remedy or investi-
gate. I have just come back .from
Trinidad, and I took interest in Trini-
dad and the East Indian boys are sell-
ing the potatoes right on the wharf,
the demand is so great they are paying
for it from Quesnel and Co., They get
a receipt, I have seen the receipt, 6/
cents per pound to be exact this last
shipment, Quesnel is drawing 10% which
is a tidy sum with 800 bags per week
or more which realise $800 per shipment
and now it is monopolised, you can see
what I mean. A different marketing
could go on with that $800 per tour
and having for the producers which
was the aim of the Marketing Board.
It is brought by these chaps who know
it and re-sell to the market vendors at
a higher price so the trouble right now
is to set up or get in touch with the
Government, the people like sweet
potatoes like we love flour and if flour
is raised to 15 cents we are going to
buy it because we get accustomed to
eat flour, so the whole purpose of the
Marketing Board, what was intended is
being flouted and who is paying for it,
the poor consumer in Trinidad is paying
as much as 20 cents per lb for sweet
potatoes and if we get alive with the
differential because we must get it and
we even get 12 cents then we should
get 10 or 8 cents, why not? We have
the risk of digging the banks, we have
the risks of when you dig to get vines
and no potatoes sometimes. And now
I see you don't want me to come back
here as a representative of my people
and I also grow potatoes, and you have
got to, you don't know what you are
saying. Go and find out from Mr.
Sprott and investigate, the Chief Min-
ister knows, he approached him and he
promised them to investigate, I am not
blaming him now and it is worth the
while to investigate what is going on
in Trinidad, not your Marketing Board.
They have praised us for sending clean

potatoes now, the Marketing Board is
taking out the bad ones from the pota-
toes it is a fine idea "so you get less
reject from the other side, but the
trouble is must we get 5/2 here 'and
somebody else gets 15 or 20 that is the
market when the demand is there. My
friend-I don't think I would go any
further, I had a few points but now I
think I have convinced you on the
potatoes if you would do just that one
I would be happy. I thank you.

HON. E. T. JOSHUA:. Mr. President,
Honourable Members, I would just like
to make a few remarks, I know we were
sitting here so long. Since this House
in the session before prorogation there
.was no chance for my rising to make
a statement before this House. I make
this statement this evening Mr. Presi-
dent, Honourable Members, because
Members here still say Crown Attorney.
I rise to commend and congratulate the
Crown Attorney who has aspired to his
specific title as the Chief Officer, law
officer of every Government, the At-
torney General, I think it is fair and
right for me to congratulate him as lie
deserves the merit for his hard work.
Then Mr. President it is my duty to
enter into this Marketing Board affair.
What fault I find with the Opposition
Members especially Mr. Young the Hon-
ourable Member for South Leeward is
to make specific statement as if they
were true as if they were de facto when
in truth they might be provocation or
partly true and partly untrue. That is
the type of thing we can't allow to
happen and there is where clash in
views may come. The question of this
Marketing Board was as I have seen it,
there was no fundamental and specific
complaints of these people meeting me
when-I got in touch with the Market-
ing Board. They have issued to the
Chief Minister's Office a report of the
Marketing Board when I pointed out
to them the points raised by this dele-
gation of the speculators. The speci-
fic question is the fault they have found

is that for a certain period when
potatoes were extremely short here,
that the amount distributed to them
as speculators were done not in a fair
manner. That was the only point
checking on the different points raised
on that. The contract to receive pot-
atoes in Trinidad ought to have been
given to them as old speculators in
Trinidad. The Marketing Board as far
as that matter is concerned I did not
know, they had made a specific re-
putable firm agents because we know
that in this island here many specu-
lators are now in Trinidad and cannot
cross their foot back here, have taken
the people's goods, shipment of potatoes
and go there and have never come
back with neither potatoes nor money.
I am not saying all of them but the
majority of speculators have been in
fault, robbing the people and taking their
potatoes on credit and never returned
to the island, but stayed in Trinidad.
And we, as a responsible Government
to please the whims and fancies of the
Opposition who would just get up and
make wild-cat statements in this House
to allow our potatoes to be taken in
mass and to be shifted about without
proper protection for a reputable firm.
I have no point as Chief Minister of
this country, Mr. President to find no
specific fault with the Marketing Board
on that score. It might be that if that
were done, and I go and say reverse
this and bring it, to a stage where spec-.
ulators or association has to do with
it, the consequences of that might be
grave and I see no reason, I can't follow
the Member for Kingstown when he
raised this point in the summing up
of the last motion, he moved on this
subject as this factual talk and flimsey
premises is a thing-it is immaturity
of youth that experience and develop
the hard way one day. And Mr. Presi-
dent the question of sending Indian

boys to sell potatoes, these people have
their servants, the population of Trini-
dad is like two to three Indians in a
ratio, what two is to three which is the
greater Indian than negroes and you
must expect you cannot refer to an
Indian boy, you got to speak of some-
one, a human being who whether it be
negro or what they are servants of
those who work. People who work for
Quesnel and Co. they must send their
servants to do it. Well I am satisfied
here now it is better to pay 10% from
a reputable firm than to loose all our
potatoes in Trinidad. Mr. President I
thank you.

HON. A. C. CYRUS: Mr. President,
Honourable Members, I wish. to say
thank you again to those Honourable
Members who have again repose con-
fidence and trust in me as to elect me
Deputy-President. I promise them that
I would do everything to deserve their
trust in me.

Mr. PRESIDENT: If no other Honour-
able Member wishes to speak there is
just one thing I would like to say and
that is now the Honourable Attorney
General has removed to the Govern-
ment Office block and now that Gov-
ernment are examining the possibility
of obtaining from the Federal Govern-
ment as part of the grant-in-aid next
year funds to do some reconstruction
of this building, I propose to make the
initiative to try ,and get an agreed
motion into the next meeting of Coun-
cil to set up a select committee of
the House to consider what alterations
should be made here in order to add
to the amenities of the House.

The House stands adjourned.

Adjourned 6.35 p.m.

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