Statutory Rules and Orders No....
 Statutory Rules and Orders No....
 Statutory Rules and Orders No....
 Supplement to Gazette: Legislative...

Title: Saint Vincent government gazette
Full Citation
Permanent Link: http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00077473/00504
 Material Information
Title: Saint Vincent government gazette
Alternate Title: Government gazette
St. Vincent government gazette
Physical Description: v. : ; 35 cm.
Language: English
Creator: Saint Vincent
Publisher: G.P.O.
Place of Publication: Kingstown, St. Vincent
Kingstown St. Vincent
Publication Date: June 14, 1960
Frequency: weekly
Subject: Gazettes -- Periodicals -- Saint Vincent   ( lcsh )
Genre: federal government publication   ( marcgt )
legislation   ( marcgt )
periodical   ( marcgt )
Spatial Coverage: Saint Vincent and the Grenadines -- Saint Vincent
Dates or Sequential Designation: v. 1, no. 1 (1868)-v. 112, no. 48 (Tues., 23 Oct. 1979)
General Note: Description based on: Vol. 111, no. 1 (Tues., 3 Jan. 1978); title from caption.
General Note: Supplements which accompany some numbers contain extraordinary issues, ordinances, statutory rules of order, etc.
 Record Information
Bibliographic ID: UF00077473
Volume ID: VID00504
Source Institution: University of Florida
Holding Location: University of Florida
Rights Management: All rights reserved by the source institution and holding location.
Resource Identifier: oclc - 19844741
lccn - sn 89018505
 Related Items
Succeeded by: Government gazette

Table of Contents
        Page 157
        Page 158
        Page 159
        Page 160
        Page 161
        Page 162
    Statutory Rules and Orders No. 19: The Currency (Notes) (Amendment) Regulations, 1960
        Page A-61
        Page A-62
    Statutory Rules and Orders No. 20: The Currency (Coin) (Amendment) Regulations, 1960
        Page A-63
        Page A-64
    Statutory Rules and Orders No. 21: The Legislative Council (Electoral Districts) Order, 1960
        Page A-65
        Page A-66
        Page A-67
        Page A-68
    Supplement to Gazette: Legislative Council Proceedings and Debates (Hansard) in the Third Session (1956-57) held on 4th July, 1957
        Page B-1
        Page B-2
        Page B-3
        Page B-4
        Page B-5
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        Page B-27
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Full Text



o b. 9li3'd b. 1 6. .

VOL. 93.] SAINT VINCENT, TIE.SlAY, 14 JUNE, 1960. [No. 27.


No. 237.

His Honour the Administrator has
learnt with deep regret of the death
of Mr. THOMAS BRERETON, Assistant
Superintendent of Public Works,
which occurred on the 12th June,

The community suffers a keen sense
of loss in his passing.
14th June, 1960.
(P.F. 323.)

No. 238.


His Honour the Administrator has
been pleased to approve the appoint-
ment, on secondment, of Mr. S. B. Cox,
Senior Clerk, to the post of Inspector of
Accounts, Treasury Department, with
effect from 1st January, 1960, and until
further notice.
14th June, 1960.
(P.F. 300.)

No. 239.
His Honour the Administrator has
been pleased to approve the appoint-
ment, on secondment, of Mr. A. V.
LEWIS, Acting Class I Clerk, Govern-
ment Office, to the post of Fisheries
Officer, Department of Agriculture,
St. Vincent, under D. & W. Scheme
D. 3845, with effect from 16th June,
1960, and until further notice.
14th June, 1960.
No. 240.

His Honour the Administrator has
been pleased to appoint, under Section
2 of Cap. 212 of the Laws of St. Vin-
Scent, the following gentlemen to serve
as Commissioners for the purpose of ex-
tending, realigning, etc., the boundaries
of the Town of Kingstown:-
The Hon. A. C. CYRUS (Chairman),
N. S. NANTON, Esq., Barrister-at-Law,
The Acting Crown Surveyor.
Secretary-The Warden, Kingstown
Town Board.
14th June, 1960.
(8.S. 215.)

No. 241.

In accordance with the provisions of
Section 7 (2) (c) of the Public Assist-
ance Ordinance 1957 (No. 20 of 1957),

?a2 7O Zi'

158 SAINT VINCENT, TUESDAY, 14 JUNE, 1960.-(No. 27.)

the following persons have been ap- No. 246.
pointed to serve on the District Com- VACATION LEAVE.
mittee for Mayreau, for a period of one
year with effect from 1st May, 1960: Miss MABLE BOYCE, Class III Clerk,
Mr. HENRY MORRIS, Ministries, has been granted 32 days
Mrs. GRACE MORRIS, vacation leave with effect from 13th
Mr. CHARLES WALTERS. 14th June, 1960.
14th June, 1960. (P.F. 753.)
(S.S. 180.)


No. 247.

OFFICIAL ATTESTOR. It is hereby notified for general in-
formation that the Secretary of State
for the colonies has been pleased to ap-
The Reverend GEORGE WILLIAM LEWIS point Mr. C. A. GROSSMITH, C.M.G., to
has been re-appointed as an Official At- undertake the revision of salaries of
testor with effect from 31st May, 1960. Civil Servants, including Teachers and
14th June, 1960. Police.
(S. 179.) Mr. GROSSITTTT is due to arrive in
Trinidad on the 16th June, and to pro-
ceed to the Windward Islands on the
No. 243. 20th June, 1960.
ACTING APPOINTMENT. All Organisations and Associations
and individuals concerned are invited
Mr. C. L. DEFREITAS, D.I.C.T.A., to send in memoranda or other infor-
Agricultural Officer (Extension), has mation, that will assist Mr. Grossmith in
been appointed to act as Superintendent the performance of his duties, to the
of Agriculture with effect from 8th Financial Secretary's office not later
June, 1960, and during the absence of than the 20th June, 1960.
Mr. H. S. MCCONNIE on vacation leave. 14th June, 1960.
14th June, 1960.
(P.F. 604.) No. 248.

No. 244.

His Honour the Administrator has
been pleased to approve the confirma-
tion of Mr. A. PAYNTER as a Dispenser,
Medical Department, with effect from
1st May, 1959.
14th June, 1960.
(P.F. 983.)

No. 245.

The jurisdiction of Sefior LuIs A.
GONZALEZ DEL PRADO, Consul-General of
the Dominican Republic at Port of
Spain, has been extended to include the
territories of the Federation of The
West Indies.
The Exequatur empowering Sefior
DEL PRADO to act in this capacity re-
ceived Her Majesty's signature on the
17th May, 1960.
14th June, 1960.
(S. 174.)

The Right Honourable the Secretary
of State for the Colonies has notified
that Her Majesty the QUEEN will not
be advised to exercise her power of dis-
allowance in respect of the following
Ordinances of this Government:-
No. 13 of 1957.-An Ordinance to es-
tablish a body corporate to be
known as the St. Vincent Cane
Farmers Association with powers
as mentioned herein and with the
object of promoting, fostering and
encouraging the growing of sugar
cane by cane farmers in the Colony,
to contract for the sale of all cane
on behalf of members and for other
purposes incidental thereto or con-
nected therewith.

No. 5 of 1959.-An Ordinance to
amend and consolidate the law re-
lating to currency and to imple-
ment an Agreement to provide for
a uniform Currency in the Eastern
Group of the British Caribbean
(F. 13/1950 II.)
14th June, 1960.

No. 242.

SAINT VINCENT, TUESDAY, 14 JUNE, 1960.-(No. 27.)

No. 249.
The following Documents are pub-
lished with this issue of the Gazette:
S.R. & 0. No. 19.-The Currency
(Notes) (Amendment) Regulations,
(C.M.F. 21.)

S.R. & 0. No. 20.-The Currency
(Coin) (Amendment) Regulations,





196i. The attention of Banana Growers is
(C.F. 21.) drawn to Section 24 of the Windward
S& No. 21.The Legislative islands Banana Insurance Ordinance
S.R. & 0. No. 21.-The Legislative w
Council (Electoral Districts) Or- which makes provision for every banana
der, 1960. grower to effect contractual insurance
S1 against damage to plant mats in young
14th June, 1960. banana cultivations as a result of a
windstorm for the ensuing insurance
year which commences on the 1st July,
No. 250. 1960.
SUPPLEMENTS TO GAZETTE. A plant mat is defined as any plant
or more than one plant which has de-
The Report of the Bi-Partisan Com- veloped from the original corn (under-
mission on the redistribution of Consti- ground stem) and from which no bunch
tuency Boundaries is published with or bunches have been harvested. Plant
this issue of the Gazette. mats do not qualify for statutory insur-
14th June, 1960. ance.
The premium payable by the grower
No. 251. for contractual insurance is six cents
Copies of the Legislative Council (6 ) per plant nat. Contractual insur-
Proceedings and Debates (Hansard) in ance benefit is paid to a grower only if
the Third Session (1956-57) held on 4th the percentage of damaged plant mats
July, 1957, which may be seen at Gov- is twenty per cent and over. The de-
erlnent Of9ce, the Kingstown Library cared unit of benefit shall be at the rate
eminent Office, the Kingstown Library of fifty cents (50) per damaged plant
and at all Revenue Offices, are pub- ft cents (50 damaged plant
lished with this issue of the Gazette. m
By Order, Secretary,
Windward Islands Banana Growers
E. A. BRATHWAITE, Association.
Chief Secretary.

Sealed Tenders are invited for stor-
DEPARTMENTAL AND ing 2,400 Tons of Fertilizer packed in
OTHER NOTICES. 200 lb. bags due to arrive during
1960/61 in lots of approximately 300
PUBLIC WORKS DEPAR tons per month commencing in July
MEN. Persons tendering should state their
NOTICE OF SALE. flat charge per bag day and night for
Storing in the Banana Association Shed,
Offers are hereby invited for the pur- Upper Bay Street, Kingstown.
chase of an'old Rowboat at Young's Tenders will be received up to and
Island. Offers should be made in writ- including the 18th June, 1960.
ing to the Superintendent of Works not The Association does not bind itself
later than 30th June, 1960. to accepting the lowest or any tender.
The boat may be inspected at Young's Tenders should be addressed to:-
Island on any working day between the The Secretary/Manager, St. Vincent
hours of 8.30 a.m. and 4.00 p.m., except Banana Growers Association, and the
on Saturday when inspection will be envelopes should be distinctly marked
up to 12.00 noon. TENDERS FOR STORING FERTI-
Superintendent of Works. SecretaryManager
10th June, 1960. 1st June. 1960. etar
10th June, 1960. Ist June. 1960.

SAINT VINCENT, TUESDAY, 14 JUNE, 1960.-(No. 27.)


By Authority of Section 27 Cap. 183, Customs Ordinance, the undermentioned goods which
have been in the Customs Warehouse for over one (1) year as at 15th May, 1960, will be sold by Public
Auction on Wednesday, 6th July, 1960, at 1.30 p.m. nuless duly cleared or re-warehoused.

Collector of Customs & Excise.

H.M. Customs,
St. Vincent,
24th May, 1960.


Ware- Ship Consignee
housed __

30. 1. 57. Maracas Bay J. H. Hazell
23. 3. 57. Selector ,

21. 10. 57. Lady Steadfast 1Barclays Bank D.C.O.

Carib Clipper Order of Shippers
United Princess Corea & Co.


J. H. Hazell
Geo. A. Forde
Corea & Co.

J. H. Hazell

W. J. Abbott & Soil

Barclays Bank D.C.O.
Corea & Co.
W. J. Abbott & Son
Corea & Co.

W. J. Abbott & Sor

O. D. Brisbane
Corea & Co.
Hadley Bros.
Corea & Co.


J. H. Iazell
Barclays Bank D.C.O.
SCorea & Co.
:J. H. H. S & Co.

16. 4. 58. Daerwood

16. 4.58.
26. 4. 58. Poly River

30. 5. 58. Water Lily
17. 6. 58. Pygmalion
1. 7. 58. Sungleam
23. 8. 58. Oluf Sven
4. 7. 58. Crispin

22.11. 58. Gordias
22. 11. 58. Oluf Sven
21. 11. 58. Lady Angela
3. 12. 58. Borealis

9. 12. 58. Mina Mine
16. 1. 59. Pygmalion
16. 1. 59. Mandalay
28. 1. 59. Lady Angela
4. 2. 59. United Princess

29 4. 59. Oluf Sven
29 4.59. ,,
29 4.59.
28. 12. 57. Naturalist
4. 5. 59. Carib Clipper
19. 8. 58. Daerwood
7. 1. 59. Dalesman

Marks & Nos.

C.A.H. 49 & Co.

A.S. & R.P., Co.
P. J. H.
Corea & Co.
J. H. H.
P. H. V.
B. B.

C. L.A.

Corea & Co.

N. W.
D. R. J. 1299
P. H. V.

H. S. 9789 91, 92
A. P.
H. S. D. 59327
48989, 59176,
T. Dike
R. W. W. 2186/1-2
J. S. V.
C & Co

John H. Hazell

C. A. M. 6196
P. P. V.
B. R. J.
E.E.H.S. 2176 1-18

Quantity & Declared Contents

1 ctn. Merchandise
12 loose C. I. Dutch
1 case Medicine

1 case Fittings
4 pails X-100 Motor Oil
1 pail Lubricating Oil
1 case Beef
1 ctn. Medicine
3 ctns. American Cigar-
1 ctn. Stout (Sim-
1 ctn. Glassware
1 ctn. Sugar Confec-
1 bdl. Handle (Broom)
3 c/s Cooking Butter
18 ctns. Sardines
1 c/s Lactogen
1 ctn. Sauce (Lea &
3 ctns. Plastic Ware
2 ctns. Beef Loaf
1 ctn. Curry Powder
4 bales C.P. Goods

1 pel.
2 c/s
2 pkgs.
3 ctns.
1 Jerrican

7 ctns.
2 ctns
1 c/s
1 c/s
2 etns.
10 etns.
18 bdls.

Marble Works
Copra Bags
Canned Goods
Tomato Sauce
Cod Liver Oil

Date I
Ware- Ship Consignee Marks & Nos. Qpantity & Declared Contents
housed __ __. Description

23. 6.58. Lady Angela 'John H. Hazell C. & Co. V. 1 ctn. Laundry Soap
23. 8. 58. :Daerwood C & Co 1 ctn. Merchandise
6. 9. 58. Carib Clipper Cent. Arrowroot Factory C. A. F. 1 c/s Centrif. Pump
20. 9. 58. 'Titus ,Corea & Co. G. H. 1 c/s Cooking Butter

19. 2.58.
1. 3.58.
12. 3.58.
19. 2.58.

SAINT VINCENT, TUESDAY, 14 JUNE, 1960.-(No. 27.)


Ware- Ship
housed Sh

20. 9.58. Titus
20. 9.58. ,,
4. 10. 58. !Lucky Star
31. 10. 58. iBorealis
14. 11. 58. iMandalay II
12. 11. 58. Daerwood
26. 9. 58. Lady Angela
30.12.58. Daerwood
15. 2. 59. Oluf Sven
15. 2.59. ,,
9. 1. 59. Daerwood
2. 5. 59. Zinna


Corea & Co.

John H. Hazell
W. J. Abbott & Son
W. H. D. Barnard
Corea & Co.

John H. Hazell

P. H. V. & Co.
John H. Hazell

Marks & N )s.

A. T. A.
S. N. B. & Son
J. J. H. H.
C& Co
W. H. D. Barnard

Corea & Co.
P. H. V.
B. B.
E. D.
P. H. V.
P.H.B. 5.

Quantity & Declared Contents

1 c/s Bentwood Chairs
1 ctn. Peaches
3 ctns. Beer
1 only Piece C.I. Bend
1 box Groceries
5 ctns. Shell Lubricants
1 pkg. Motor Car Parts
3 ctns. Stout
1 ctn. Canned Beef
1 c/s Target Beef
1 c/s Limolene
1 ctn Pomade




1. 6.57. B1.G. Airways

1. 6. 57.



31. 1.59.


J. II. H. S.

Marks & Nos.

Acme Trading Ag.

T. P. H. 155402

C. P. 925738
Shell & Regent
Baynes Bros. 105047

Quantity &

1 pkge.

1 pkge.

1 etn.

1 pkge
1 ctn.

1 pcl.

Declared Contents

Radio Parts

Surgical Dress-
Art Bin
Dip Stick



It is hereby notified that the undermentioned articles which have been in the Customs Suffrance
Warehouse and Baggage Warehouse uncleared for over one (1) year, and are not worth the duty,
shall be forfeited under Section 28 Cap. 183 of the Laws of St. Vincent.
Collector of Customs & Excise.
II.M. Customs,
St. Vincent,
24th May, 1960.

Ware- Ship Consignee

13.11. 57. Carib Clipper Reliance Pharmacy
18. 3. 58. Blue Star Corea & Co.
20. 12. 57. iNaturalist John H. Hazell
24. 6.58. Cloudia S. Barclays Bank D.C.O.

10. 10. 58. ITrajanus Corea & Co.
18. 10. 58. Daerwood

20. 12. 58. Oluf Sven John H. Hazell

16. 1. 59. Mandalay II Hadley Bros.
28. 2. 59. Lady Angela Corea & Co.
6. 3. 59. Herman Lan- J. H. Hazell
17. 4. 59. Orestes Corea & Co.

Marks & Nos. Quantity & I Declared Contents
Description i

F. C.
Cumberbatch 5
R. H. S.

Baynes Bros

J. H. H.

F. R.
Lyric Theatre
G. P. Co.

P. T. A. 328

i13 ctns. Soap-empty
1 ctn. Stout-empty
1 c/s Advert. Material
1 ctn. Laundry Soap
1 pel. Samples
1 etn. Confectionery
1 ctn. Andrews Liver
1 c/s Almanacs
1 pkg. Advt. Material
1 box Can Tappers

1 ctn. Advert. Material


SAINT VINCENT, TUESDAY, 14 JUNE, 1960.-(No. 27.)



25. 6. 58. Carib Clipper
18. 7. 58. Ganymedes

26. 8.58. Prospector
1.10. 58. Daerwood
3.12.58. Titus
7. 1. 59. Herman Lan-

24. 2. 59. Herman Lan-

3.59. Titus


Corea & Co.

J. H. Hazell
O. D. Brisbane
Corea & Co.

Marks & Nos.

Corea & Co.
B. S. C./E D E/
20885 K 1
C. I. E. Ltd. A
O. D. B.
P. T. A H. V. S

P. T. A.

P. H. V.


Quantity &

1 e/s

1 /s
1 pkg.
1 ctn.
1 pkg.

Declared Contents

5 Banners
Enamel Sign

Advert. Material
Can Tappers

5 etns. Advert. Matter
1 pkg. Can Tappers
1 etn. Stout (Mer-
1 ctn. Stout (Beer)
1 ctn. Z.H.B. Beer


Ware- Plane

19. 9. 56. B.G. Airways
24. 6.57.

3. 6.58.

11. 6.58.
16. 7.58.
3.10.58. ,
9. 3.59.
24. 4.59.


J. H. H. S.

Marks & Nos.

J.H.H. S. & Co. 1230
H. H. W. C. Domin-
ica 20
Corea & Co.

E. A. B. 409300
J. H. H. S. 1104
C. L. A. 322069
Corea & Co. 90353
E. H. S 1909
F. H. S 119857

Quantity &

1 pkg.
1 pkg.

1 pkg.

1 pcl.
1 pkg.
1 pkg.
1 pkg.
1 pkg.
1 pcl.

Declared Contents

Tobacco Speci-
Advert. Material
Tobacco Samples
Printed Matter
Medicinal Sam-


1960. [Price 30 cents.]




1960, No. 19.


(Gazetted 14th June, 1960.)

1. Short title. These Regulations may be cited as the Currency
(Notes) (Amendment) Regulations, 1960, and shall be read as one with the Car-
rency (Notes) Regulations, 1951 (S. R. & 0. 1951 No. 79) (hereinafter referred to as
the principal Regulations) and all amendments thereto.

2. Regulation 20 of principal Regulations further amended.
Paragraph (4) of Regulation 20 of the principal Regulations is hereby revoked
and replaced by the following paragraphs to be numbered (4) and (4a) respec-
"(4) The Board of Survey may, at any survey, if it is satisfied that the
seals are intact, without counting the contents thereof, accept-
(a) any sealed package that bears the seal of the Director of Audit, the
Crown Agents for Oversea Governments and Administrations, or a
previous Board of Survey;
(b) any sealed cabinets or similar containers the contents of which are
certified by and bear the seal of a previous Board of Survey;
S(c) any packages of redeemed or exchanged currency notes sealed with
the seal of the British Caribbean Currency Board and bearing a
certificate signed by not less than two Currency Officers to the effect
that such packages have been sealed in their presence and that
the contents thereof have been checked by them.
(4a) Where-
(a) the number .of bundles of cancelled currency notes of each denomi-
nation have been checked, and
(b) the keys to locked containers in which such currency notes are
stored are in the custody of two Currency Officers not being custo-
dians of keys to the vault or 'of one Currency Officer not being a
custodian of a key to the vault and an Assistant Currency Officer,
when two Currency Officers as aforesaid are unavailable,
the Board of Survey may, at any survey, without counting the contents
thereof, accept any unsealed bundles purporting to contain one hundred
cancelled currency notes.".


3^ ~>^^
S /-5-5--


3. Regulation 23 of principal Regulations amended. Para-
graph (2) of Regulation 23 of the principal Regulations is hereby revoked and
replaced by the following:-
"(2) In the event of the provision in the annual estimates proving in-
sufficient, the prior authority of the Board for any supplementary provision
shall be obtained before expenditure is incurred:
Provided that-
(a) The Chairman of the Board may, ir cases of emergency, authorise
expenditure, not exceeding five hundred dollars. Such emergency
supplementary provision shall be submitted for the approval of the
Board as soon as practicable thereafter;
(b) The Chairman of the Board may, if he is satisfied that there are
compensatory savings available under any other Head or Sub-Head,
authorise supplementary provision not exceeding five hundred dollars
under any other Head or Sub-Head; such supplementary expenditure
shall be circulated quarterly for the approval thereof by the Com-

Made by the Administrator in Council under section 13 of the Currency
Ordinance, 1959, (No. 5 of 1959) after consultation with the Board of Commis-
sioners of Currency, British Caribbean Territories (Eastern Group) and with the
approval of the Secretary of State this 27th day of May, 1960.

Clerk of Executive Council.
(C.M. F.21).

[ Price 8 cts. ]




1960, No. 20.


(Gazetted 14th June, 1960.)

1. Short title. These Regulations may be cited as the Currency
(Coin) (Amendment) Regulations, 1960, and shall be read as one with the Cur-
rency (Coin) Regulations, 1955 (S.R. & 0. 1955, No. 39) (hereinafter referred to
as the principal Regulations) and all amendments thereto.

2. Regulation 10 of principal Regulations amended. Para-
graph (4) of Regulation 10 of the principal Regulations is hereby revoked and
replaced by the following:-
"(4) At any survey the Board of Survey may accept, without counting the
contents thereof, if the seals are apparently intact-
(a) any sealed package that bears the seal of-
(i) the Director of Audit; or
(ii) the Crown Agents for Oversea Governments and Administra-
tions; or
(iii) the Royal Mint; or
(iv) a previous Board of Survey;
(b) any sealed cabinets or similar containers the contents of which are
certified by and bear the seal of a previous Board of Survey;
(c) any sealed packages of redeemed or exchanged coins sealed with not
less than three numbered seals and bearing a certificate, signed by
not less than two Currency Officers or two employees of a Bank
appointed to act as Agent of the Board, to the effect:-
(i) that the contents of such packages have been checked by them;
(ii) that such packages have been sealed in their presence with the
seals bearing the numbers stated in such certificates:
Provided that no Currency Officer who has been appointed by
the Board to hold a key of the Vault shall be entitled to give or sign
a valid certificate;
(d) any packages of United Kingdom coin withdrawn for repatriation to
Xthe Royal Mint, and sealed by a Bank with not less than three
numbered seals and marked with a serial number.".

s /s


Made by the Administrator in Council after consultation with the Board of
Commissioners of Currency, British Caribbean Territories (Eastern Group) and
with the approval of the Secretary of State, under section 13 of the Currency
Ordinance, 1959 (No. 5 of 1959), this 27th day of May, 1960.

Clerk of Executive Council.
(C.M. F.21).

[ Price 8 cents. ]


1960, No. 21.


(Gazetted 14th June, 1960.)

1. Short title. This Order may be cited as the Legislative Council
(Electoral Districts) Order, 1960.
2. Division of Colony into Electoral Districts. For the pur-
poses of section 3 of the Legislative Council (Elections) Ordinance, 1951, as
amended, the Colony shall be divided into the nine electoral districts specified
in the Schedule hereto and the boundaries of the said districts shall be as shown
in the said Schedule.
3. Cancellation. The Legislative Council (Electoral Districts) Order,
1951 (S. R. & 0. 1951, No. 36) is hereby cancelled.
4. Commencement. This Order shall come into operation on the
day on which the Legislative Council, established by the Saint Vincent (Legis-
lative Council) Orders in Council, 1951 to 1957, is next dissolved.


1. North Windward: North by the sea as far west as West Point; East
by the sea; South by the Grand Sable River; and
West by the Central Range from -West Point.
2. Central Windward: North by Grand Sable River; East by the sea;
South by the Union River to its source thence in a
straight line to Petit Bonhomme thence to Grand
Bonhomme; and West by the Central Range.

3S;, AT&-


3. South Windward:

4. East Saint George:

5. West Saint George:

6. Kingstown:

7. South Leeward:

North by the Union River to its source thence
in a straight line to Petit Bonhomme thence to Grand
Bonhomme; East by the Sea; South by the Yambou
River to the Mesopotamia Bridge thence along the
Vigie Road to its junction with the Eyry Road thence
to the tank at Kilburney (211 VS) thence to Mount
Saint Andrew; and West by the Central Range.

North by the Yambou River to the Mesopotamia
Bridge thence along the Vigie Road to its junction
with the Eyry Road; East and South by the sea; and
West by the Greathead River to the Arnos Vale
Bridge thence along the Vigie Highway to its junc-
tion with the Eyry Road:

North by a line drawn from the junction of the
Vigie and Eyry Roads to the tank at Kilburney
(211 VS) thence to Mount Saint Andrew; East by
the Greathead River to the Arnos Vale Bridge thence
along the Vigie Highway to its junction with the
Eyry Road; South by the sea; and West by the sea
and a line from the Kingstown Customs Pier along
Sharpe Street, and Granby Street to its junction
with the Murray's Road thence along the Murray's
Road to its junction with the Murray's Village Road
thence along the Murray's Village Road to Millers'
Gate thence to Mount Saint Andrew.

North-West by the York River to Mount Saint
Andrew; East by a line from the Kingstown Customs
Pier- along Sharpe Street, and in Granby Street to its
junction with the Murray's Road thence along the
Murray's Road to its junction with the Murray's
Village Road thence along the Murray's Village Road
to Millers' Gate thence to Mount Saint Andrew; and
South and West by the sea.

North by a line drawn from the Barrouallie
Jetty along the road as far as the bridge below the
Anglican Rectory thence along the stream to Jacques
Hill thence along the Ridge to the Central Range;
East by the Central Range to Mount Saint Andrew;
South East by the York River to Mount Saint An-
drew; and West by the sea.



8. North Leeward:

9. The Grenadines:

North by the sea as far East as West Point;
East by the Central Range from West Point; South
by a line drawn from the Barrouallie Jetty along the
Road as far as the bridge below the Anglican Rectory
thence along the stream to Jacques Hill thence along
the Ridge to the Central Range; and West by the sea.

All the Islands of the Grenadines included in the
Colony of Saint Vincent.

Made by the Administrator in Council under section 3 of the Legislative
Council (Elections) Ordinance, 1951 (No. 13 of 1951) this 10th day of June,

Clerk of Executive Council.

7--~ -


1960. [Price 12 cts.]




12th Sitting

Thursday, 4th July,


The Honourable Legislative Council met at 10.25 o'clock tfs .FL O


[MR. PRESIDENT in the Chair]

The Honourable N. A. BERRIDGE, Acting Crown Attorney,
B. R. THOMAS, Financial Secretary,
.. .. J. A. BAYNES, Member for St. George,
S. R. E. BAYNES, Minister for Trade and Production, Member for
. G. H. CHARLES, Minister for Social Services, Member for Central
. C. L. TANNIS, Minister for Communications and Works, Member
for the Grenadines,
S L. C. LATHAM, Member for South Windward,
S. S. E. SLATER, Member for North Leeward,
. E. T. JOSHUA, Member for North Windward.
,, A. C. CYRUs, Second Nominated Member,
S. A. B. DOSSANTOS, Third Nominated Member,
S H. F. YOUNG, Member for South Leeward.

The Honourable E. A. C. HUGHES, First Nominated Member.

The Minutes of the Meeting of the
Legislative Council of 6th June, 1957,
having been circulated were taken as
read and were confirmed.

MR. PRESIDENT: Honourable Members,
I must apologise to the House for having

misled it at last meeting due to an
arithmetical error for which I take full
responsibility. The figures which I gave
for the cost of the 20% increase for daily
paid government labour for 6 months,
were wrong. If Honourable Members
will consult the Minutes on page 31 2nd
paragraph, you will see stated that the
cost for 6 months of the proposals that
would fall on the local budget would be

$90,000. The extra cost for 8 months fall
ing on C.D. & W. funds, would be $34,000,
making a total of $124,000 for six months.
One figure which made up the total for
the local budget was wrong and the
error has since been traced and the cor-
rect figure is $46,800, instead of $90,000.
That is the cost for 6 months falling on
the local budget. The C. D. & W. figure
is correct, therefore the revised total for
6 months should be $80,800.


dent, Honourable Members, I have the
honour to move that Council approve
the Food Vendors and Food Vending
Establishment Regulations, 1957.
the motion.
Question put and motion passed nem
Hon. J. A. BAYNES:
VWHEREAS the price of Village lots all
over the island have jumped to a price
where it has become almost impossible
for the ordinary working man, to pur-
chase a house-spact.
AND WHEI~rA wherever a spot is to
be sold, it goes to the better class peo-
pie, who are land owners and from
their banana returns can buy cash.
AND WHEREAS this condition is gradu-
ally killing the incentive in ordinary
workers to own their own homes and
is also reducing our Labour Force com-
pollini them to seek opportunities

AND WHEREAS the burden of housing
working class people is growing to be
the sole responsibility of the state.

BE IT RESOLVED that this Government
set out to acquire portions of land in
various parts of the island which could
be sold to working class people at a
moderate price, which would alleviate
the acute situation that now exists in
finding house-spots.

Mr. President, Honourable gentlemen,
this motion is one which when brought
here I feel that every representative of
the people around this table has been
facing for the past 3 or 4 years, the ques-
tion made to them by the people they
represent, asking to assist them in find-
ing house spots. You find there are
persons who have, in the past out of
sheer selfsacrifice and self-denial, saved
a hundred to two hundred dollars with
the aim of purchasing for themselves
somewhere to erect a home. But when
that money is amassed and the saver
walks around in quest of a spot of land,
he finds that wherever they are selling
land. they want $500 for a house spot,
and he with his little $200, even if he
can make a down payment and pay the
balance of $300 by instalments, he can
only have that concession when there is
not a cash buyer. As a consequence,
you find that that type of worker having
reached evolution point where he is
determined to make himself a land
owner, is forced to relinquish every effort
of finding a livelihood here and seek it
in Trinidad or any other place that
might give him an opportunity to do so,
because of the fact that his chances of
laying a foundation for his children, or
his wife whom he might have, is not
there. He goes out and I do not believe
it is the wisest thing in an agricultural
country to have that type of individual
walking off. Eventually you will find
that those people whom I will call re-
sponsible workers, will be gradually giv-
ing up living here to reside abroad. Now
that we have Federation .on the horizon
those are the things which I think should
be given primary consideration, because
it is our duty to endeavour to keep re-
sponsible workers on the land.
In 1937, United States Government was
faced with the same condition. The
share-croppers of the South were all
leaving the land going to cities like
Chicago, Michigan and those places, in-
dustrial centres, to find employment be-
cause what they got from the land never
gave them a chance to eke out a proper
living and to march on to progress, as
a people should. It got to the notice of
the United States Government and im-

mediately they made an effort to give
to any person who can produce $2,000
worth of produce from the land, an
additional $1,000 to keep them on the
land. If that was not done you would
find that the food America supplied in
aszlsting to fight the last world war,
would not have been possible. Thanks
to the keen .foresight of the United
States Government.
Well we are fighting or should make
an effort to fight a similar condition
here. You find that within the last 6-8
months people have been leaving here
for Trinidad in droves every week. They
are aware that they are only permitted
to stay in Trinidad for 6 months, but
they are taking a chance with the hope
tiht thay may eventually be able to stay
if they even have to go, and come, and
go again. That is because there is no
inducement, there is no chance of survi-
val for working class people here, and
with the present price of lands I have
brought to this Council chamber a mo-
tion in an effort to control the price of
agricultural lands. This Government
never s-w it fit to bring such laws into
being, snd as a consequence, lands today
run up from 300 to 1200 an acre. You
find they are asking 1/- per sq.ft. for
lands situated as far as 2 miles out of
town, Pnd that tells me that working
class people are not given consideration
by this government. We who have agri-
culture as cur main stay in this Island
should realise that while there might be
opportunities at the top for a few, we
should provide opportunities at the foot
for thi toiling masses who pay for all.
Pecaus3e in agricultural countries, parti-
cularly where the plough is not an asset,
whor.e e are responsible to the use of
the hoe for every purpose, if something
was not done to facilitate and serve as
an incentive to the working class people,
you will find that eventually it will hit
back cn our. economy, and many of us
who are presently making a living here
in the upper bracket of St. Vincent's
economy would be forced to do as the
workers are doing now, go out to find
employment abroad, or change residence
to some other Island even in the federa-

I do not believe that a motion such
as this requires a tremendous lengthy
outline since this is a condition which
should be given attention by the Gov-
ernment. We have had just recently,
Cane Hall Estate that was sold out, and
there you find there were houses built
for workers some of whom have been
living there 40-60 years. Now that the
estate is being sold out they are threat-
ened everyday: "You will have to find
somewhere to go." No thought is given
to those people who in my estimation
were sold along with the lands. While
that is one problem which exists in my
area, Cane Hall, there are similar pro-
blems throughout the length and
breadth of St. Vincent, and when I bring
to this House a motion such as this I am
not thinking of St. George, I am think-
ing of St. Vincent as a whole because the
price of land has not only jumped up in
Kingstown, but throughout the length
and breadth of St. Vincent.
In the resolve, I spoke of portions of
land. I think it should be left to the
discretion of the Housing and Flanning
to find those spots of land wherever po-.-
sible, so that people in every district in
every constituency, be given a chance to
buy a spot of land where they can at
some future time erect a home. It is
true to say that this Government has
been setting up housing schemes has
-been answering the problem, I feel that
the incentive of people to erect or build
their own homes should be given con-
sideration, except it is the aid of this
Government by our housing scheme
efforts to create additional burden on
athe state. If that is so then we are going
Lack to the state of the old estate work-
ers. Every estate in the pa.t had bar-
racks where the houses were thatched
or galvanized iron, but they carried bar-
racks where a fellow was given a room
and when he refused to work you took
off a window, or the door because he did
not work the full week.
As late as 1946, more than once Gov-
ernment's attention was called to the
fact that at Grand Sable the peoples'
houses were thrown into the streets.
Well that I believe was the good old days

of estate rule. Today we are marching
on abreast of the other units of the Bri-
tish Caribbean and those things should
be abolished, because as the country pro-
gresses we should see that the progress
be seen when it is the work of the people.
Gentlemen I believe that every member
around this Table have had similar com-
plaints to those which confront me every
day, and it is the duty of the Members
of this House who represent the masses
of this country to make an effort to see
whether this motion deserves your sup-
HON. C. L. TANNIS: Mr. President,
Honourable Members, I beg to second th,
HON. E. T. JOSHUA: Mr. President,
Honourable Members, this is the last
Council meeting that an old Government
may be ushered out and subsequent to a
General Political Election a new Govern-
ment will be ushered in. The question
of motions reaching this Honourable
House within the last few months and
Ministers very enthusiastically now
sworn that if the Honourable House be
prorogued they will still have a chance
to carry on in our Government, because
they represent the Government until the
day comes that another Council be set
up. You will find in this House that we
have, by our attitude, no regard or re-
spect for our community, and that we
hopc to feel that during cur dreary and
ignoble span as parliamentarians in this
Honourable House, that our public not
having a hansard to guide them, were
not keeping their eyes on our attitude
in this community as elected represen-
tatives of the people. We are like the
red corpuscles or white, any one that you
choose, we coil and bring ourselves wob-
bling in the blood stream and dividing
ourselves into parcels. We have seen
motions being brought into this House
and treated like a tale told by an idot
full of srund and fury signifyino no-
thing; but out of the blue to hoodwink
the po-pulace we come here nnw 'Oh p.or,
workers, Workers! Workers! That is the
target when- you nailed to the cross t'-.z
very bulwark on which the poor worker

just a few years stood. You have for-
gotten. You drank of the waters of
forgetfulness, that we forget our ills and
sorrows so quickly, that we come here
pretending to be arbiters and strong de-
fenders of the poor working class who
so often have been made the pawn in
the game of political adventurers in this
Let us examine this motion and let us
go back as far as 1952, or October, 1951,
when a full-fledged government with
strength was set up. Now we are talking
of state. Are we talking about a com-
munist or facist state according to our
behaviour? Now we talk about state
when the last constitution gave us power,
a clear majority over the official side of
this House, that we had three clear votes
to carry any measure on behalf of these
poor workers but when one dared to ven-
ture out on behalf of these same poor
workers, all over the whole country he
found that this whole council receded in
its shell and looked out to see what
fatal forboding for ill would have been
the lot of this man who did say poor
workers then; but who hypocriticcliy say
poor workers now. We should see ex-
actly what would come of it. In this
motion linking it up with a full-fledged
government that the world tremble to
se: that little St. Vincent whether by a
fluke or not had the political stability to
vote into power a solid block of men to
this House.
First to begin with we often said
McDona'd the Scotsman explored a
whole lot of land from Rutland Vale
down to Soufriere Mountain. Oh this
explioter, this and that, but at last
McDonald got tired with the land, and
we have seen that the Government of
St. Vincent became a land owner in the
sense of an ordinary monopolised private
estate, holding lands from Rutland Vale
to the Soufriere mountain, in prejudice
to this community; while we had here in
this House a full-fledged majority that
could have carried any measures. Some
of us -ere members of that Land Settle-
ment Board, others of course, had their
own opinions, because if the axis of any
tra--i is broken .the coaches would be

derailed. We have no strength here
because we all had our own ideas of
We find now in the mover's outline,
he made reference to share-croppers in
the United States. He went further at
ihis ninth hour to show that the migra-
tion from this island to other parts of
the world is due to the fact that the
land system of St. Vincent is such that
people cannot find places to live; but
gentlemen, this was so at the beginning
when we had power to rectify it, this
was sO when we had all power to do and
to rectify. Now at the stage when Coun-
cil is going to be prorogued, we find a
series of motions repeating themselves
just dressed in another form, moved by
one Councillor and brought back here at
the last moment. Those were good mo-
tions that were opposed here. Those
were motions that were thrown in the
waste-paper basket. When we say state,
it is nr- question of state, the constitu-
tion did allow us in this House to unite
ourselves together to pass issues, funda-
mental issues. Not a piece of road
mended here and a school built there,
you come out I, I, I. We did not think.
of that as representation, we have
caught ours",ves too late. Though we
have had a -p:rfct example of the right
ways here we hold on with one accord
and seem to crucify the truth in this
Honourable House. Now that we see our
community actually gone to the dogs we
come out here to talk about working
man, working class, when that was the
trend before the House fr the last 6
The question of livelihood on the land
and Federation. Is it now that we know
that we are to sit up on our haunches
and attend to this community? Is the
dreary light now on our Damascus road
that we see Federation and see how ill-
prepared we are for it that we at this
ninth hour are trying to do the work of
6 years in two weeks? Remember this,
when men and women left this island
to go to the Dutch West Indies and as
farm workers to the United States, the
question of the sky-rocketing price of
land did not concern anybody. Men got

money and they wanted land. They
acquiesed 'in paying any price because
they had few cents that they laboured
for in some other country and they were
going to pay for it. Nobody saw that.
We spoke about ceiling price for land.
Those who brought the motion did not
care to see that ceiling price be put be-
cause other sides, the Executive Council
is now composed of 4 elected members
having a clear majority over the nomi-
nated side of the House, and if there
was unanimity or unity of opinion be-
tween these men they could have carried
measures to support motions before cus-
toms had brought lands to 300 and 400
per acre.
Now what are you going to tell me
especially about the people of Central
Windward who have in the 3afes of Bar-
clays Bank security for money borrowed.
Are you going to tell me now at this
ninth hour that the Government go out
to have a land requisition ordinance-
that was not mentioned here, but
by the way, obiter dicta I show it- you
are going to tell me now that Govern-
ment go out with requisition ordinances
to reize lands from the accepted price
that this country has set after seizing
those lands a'greater part of the com-
munity begin to pay and did pay and was
about to- pay so much for lands and their
securities for money received and are
now well on the way in the hands of the
bankers? Gentlemen what will happen?
As soon as you now, without timely look-
ing at the situation, cause Government
to clamp down a radical change in. land,
it would mean this: that all those people
will have to find added securities, and if
not, according as you know your country
to be, they will foreclose and put every
cne of those men to ruin. And then the
point for which this motion reeks will
not have been accomplished gentlemen,
because look at this; if this motion had
included a subsidy for land, that the Gov-
ernment continue to keep the accepted
market price of land current, and subsi-
dise the price-buy for 300 and acre as
it is going and sell for 50 to those who
can pay that and a 100 stirling-that is
the only way that this can work without

causing disaster to fall on this country.
The question is this, that we notice
that the Housing and Planning through
this Government was acquiring lands for
Sandy Bay and for the extension of the
town of Georgetown. If you like to say
it was other causes, you may; but this
i, what is true. Owing to fighting and
fencing duels with the land owners in
the immediate vicinity of Georgetown
and Sandy Bay for the enormous prices
charged for such lands, there is a tech-
nical delay in even implementing
schemes that may be vitally necessary
for the state of affairs that exist in dis-
tricts where the population is fast
doubling and nearly trebling itself. The
question is that one may move but we
have to examine what is entailed in the
motion. It is true that motions brought
here I will support, and there is nothing
on record in this House to show that
motions in whatever form were ever op-
posed here by me; but gentlemen, we
have to see reason. We cannot wait un-
til election when we had so many years
before us reasonably speaking, to come
here, Ministers now getting up to second
motions, everything pitched before the
public: "You see that now, I brought a
good motion to the House, the Member
for North Windward opposed it." That
we cannot establish. That is the men-
tality to which our people reach, gentle-
men, that we merely bring our people
propaganda to fool somebody? Because
the question now is quite clear before us.
The Government Land Settlement is the
clearest and most vivid example that the
balls we play with the best possible in-
terest of this country and exposed to
Let us take the Cane Hall estate re-
ferred to. It is on good authority that
Members of this House went out to seek
loans to acquire that estate as private
property; but who reached first did
reach. Why did not we move heaven
and hell apart so that Government ac-
quire those lands, the only lands now
available save and except we swing the
land acquisition ordinance into motion,
slice and acquire land and enact it to
the state; for if you even do that now
at this ninth hour, this is prorogation

day and it is easy to see that that policy
can only be continued if you are usher-
ing a government with the same policy
of seizing lands ad hoc in the country.
We spoke of a transinzular road where
lands will be opened up. We do not
know we cannot tell by the meandering
policy of the present government. The
question is that the community is kept
in the dark regarding well-founded
schemes and policy. We do not know
what to expect like the wizard knife
knocking at the shield of suppose, some-
thing may come up. We act in such a
way that there is no tendency, no fore-
boding to show what will be the attitude
or action of this Government whenever
they act. But be that as it. may this
motion is saying:
"And where as the burden of hous-
ing working class".....That is correct
english? ".....People is growing to
be the sole responsibility of the state."
Since when? Since when is it going to
be the sole responsibility of the state?
It was ever increasing, we closed our eye3
to it. We never cared to worry about it.
We allowed Government to hold private
estates and treat them as such. You
came here and you agreed to say that if
we cut up the land into small portion:
it would .disfigure the land and all sorts
of fantastic fairy land stories. You did
nothing and if a person had a house spot
and the government required it, surely
the Land Acquisition Ordinance is read
three times in the Government Gazette,
it became law, you took it away; but
alas those who served the estates faith-
fully and came in this House, they would
never have casted their vote at any time
of their dreary parliamentary career to
see that lands were got, and at the last
minute to come here to hood-wink a land
starved populace who need somewhere
to live. Only now you see it? Only now
the scales drop off your eyes? What a
late time. It is a pity that we are so
dishonest to our public whom we serve,
who put confidence in us and placed us
here. It is a pity that we are so unfair
and unjust and cruel to a people in -a
civilised world, if we, are, on this side.
"And whereas this condition is
gradually killing the incentive in or-

dinary workers to own their own homes
and is also reducing our Labour Force
compelling them to seek opportunities
Is it lands that is killing our labour
force? I was absent from this Council
last meeting and they had a lot of labour
leaders here. Land! Not the quality of
livirfg, not the raising? My head nearly
went under the guillotine so many years
ago when everyone around this Table
sat silent, not an elected representative
of the people showed his nose to show
well good God you kept silent and aided
and abetted a conspiracy. Now you
come here 'working class., working class'.
You come here telling this House by a
motion "And whereas this condition is
gradually killing the incentive in ordi-
nary workers" Ordinary workers! Not
store workers, not Government workers
in offices, ordinary workers. We ought to
be ashamed of ourselves to talk here
about ordinary workers in this frame.
"And whereas this condition is
gradually killing the incentive in or-
dinary workers to own their own homes
and is also reducing our labour force
compelling them......"
You know what is reducing the labour
force? Not the place to live because
these people would still have been able
to live.. It is having them banked up by
the Public Works door everyday. They
turn away no work to do, not a thing to
do. They wait for you passing: "Mr.
Joshua nothing to do, going home". Yes,
that is what is killing them, that is what
is inducing them to go.
And another point again when we
speak of this since we are anti-labourites
here we find that while you talk to me
about employment of workers, for the
last 7 weeks, 49 days not one single
weeder, not one single factory worker,
not one single cane moulder had one
earthly thing to do at the only sugar,
producing estate of this colony. That
is to show you that we believe in theory
that we are fooling somebody, just get a
panacea, putting a piece of scalp over
the sore we allow it, knowing full well
that an injection that could cure the
blood stream is so necessary.

HoN. H. F. YOUNG: Mr. Chairman a
point of order. Is the Hon. gentleman
opposing this motion, supporting it or
giving a political speech? Let us be rele-
MR. PRESIDENT: That is not a point of
order. The Honourable Member has the

HON. E. T. JOSHUA: "And whereas
wherever a spot is to be sold, it goes to
the better class people....."
That line was clearly drawn, by failing
to protect this worser class people-if
that is English. You draw this line here,
you have it historically recorded that
eight men in 1951 were returned in a
labour ticket, labour being used as a tool.
Men who had other instincts, capitalists
to the very core, profit seeking, and they
tell us now that the land passed t3 the
better class people. Well if you allowed
the worse clacs people to be without
work, no collective bargaining, no pro-
tection in labour, no union, you helped
to stamp them out and you now coming
to tell me about better class. You are
the persons in this honourable House
that have built the bulwarks of better
class. As soon as you attempt to say
'people, people' you yourself go about
proclaiming 'communist, communist,'
and what will you do with such impos-
sible people now and their impossible mo-
tions? My friend the Minister without
portfolio pounced to his feet. He does
not even know the language of opposi-
tion or the language of position, and he
got up-and tried to be an obstructionist
to a well ordered debate in this House.
Mr. President, Honourable Members, I
am really loath, to make further com-
ments we all do not shave our middle
hands with Gillets, but it is quite clear
Mr. Speaker, Honourable Members that
we should be fair and honest in our in-
tentions. If this matter is not explained
and I am going to exhaust myself in this
debate, because another dishonest part
would be "Oh, the Member for North
Windward opposed spots for people." I
am not opposing spots for people. Those
spots will be got and will have to be got,
but listen to. me. At this time when you

know that this Government is incapable
of implementing such motions, you
know that these motions were dependent
on whatever land is under our control,
because if this was the government
formed here, the Governor had power
over government property to do and to
do to the utmost, then, what is lawful
and right for the progress of this com-
munity. When the Government had
first shown the example then gentlemen,
you would be best fitted to tell Barnard
Estates Ltd., tell Hadley Estates Ltd.,
tell them that we have set the example
we want so much land on the next side
now that the Leeward is fortified. Did
you make any effort or raise a straw to
allow this Government to see the woeful
neglect of a land-starved people? You
did it yes but only talk when you had the
power in the vote, as if we did not know
why you were brought to. this House.
We showed it quite clearly gentlemen
and that neglect-three things can never
come back-a spoken word,,a neglected
opportunity and a spent .arrow-they
never come back, and we. would have to
see that quite plainly and be honest to
The question now arises: TAnd where-
as wherever a spot is to be sold, it goes to
the better class people, hwho are land
owners and from their banana returns
can buy cash."
Now listen to me. This clause is really
silly. It is silly in that the land is mono-
polised entirely in the hands of estate
owners. You know it; but now you never
showed any honesty of purpose to swing
the Land Acquisition Ordinance any time
of your career in the opposition to take
land, full well knowing, but now you
come and say: "And whereas wherever
a spot of land is to be sold it goes to the
better claa people who are, land own-
ers...." It goes to those who will buy
pieces from the land owners because of
the toil in Aruba and Curacao and the
southern states of America. They gain-
ed that -thing by toil and come back here,
and because they want the land now that
same labourer who could not look to
heaven and ask mercy to purchase that
land, by his opportunity cat come now

and give $1000, $2000 for a piece of land
he could not give 10 cents for before. So
therefore he is not the better class peo-
ple. The system and position of how a
government with an elected majority
cause in this country, things to go we
now come back here the last moment,
telling this House about lands going to
the better class people. The only way
lands fall to people as you may say bet-
ter class, it is a man who is now able to
buy a nylon shirt and pass you with all
his merino looking nice out of it. He
was the same labourer yesterday tilling
the land up there and could not get
sufficient to work. He just appear so
now because he left this dreary cruel
country and went abroad. He is the
only example now to show us. He is not
the better class people. Do not deceive
yourself. Unless we blind our eyes to
classes, the same labourer who was the
worst man on the street, can be taken
and clothed and appear to be a gentle-
man as everyone of us around this House.
"And whereas the burden of housing.."
How this motion hangs up let me see
now. We are going to the political sur-
gery of the motion now. You have a
Housing and Planning Authority, no-
thing whatever is done to increase its
powers, to extenuate his powers, or to do
anything, has not been mentioned in the
motion at all. All the motion seeks to
tell us is that Government must get
lands for house spots for working class
people because they have the most votes.
What is this at all. I cannot see the
point. It is so complex that I might ask
myself the question: You have a Hous-
ing and Planning Body by statue. This
Body operates especially for what this
motion calls for. It does not say let us
revamp the powers of that Statutory
Body, let us give it a different status,
let us now give it power to acquire lands
because of the dire need of the colony;
but you are telling us here in no mis-
taken terms that whatever lands are
available for sale it goes to the better
class people because they are landowners
and from banana returns can buy it.
Not from the banana returns because in
the banana you find those same people,

only a few. Everything that is set up in
this colony is killed by the minds of
those who set it up because already many
people are suffering from the same prin-
ciples of the banana industry while
others through their vast holdings of
banana are well-to-do. I have heard it.
I could have made 101 complaints to the
Banana Association, but I am watching
what will come of it. Therefore then it
is not true to say banana returns. We
in this country are so poverty-stricken
that people whom we think are solid,
those people must use whatever come to
them to see or to rectify certain busi-
nesses. The only way you will be able
to raise your head in when you leave here
and go to one of the foreign neighbour-
ing islands. Not even in Trinidad you
could do so well. Only in one of the
neighboring islands or the continent
of America that you can do this. But
now there is a tendency to make sweep-
ing accusations and now is the time to
see all of that. Playing to the gallery
of the House.
"Be it resolved that this Government
set out to acquire portions of"... listen
carefully, "of land in various parts of
the island....."
You are going to acquire, like greedy
children, having lands under possession
as Government, you will go to tell some-
body else give me lands, while you have
lands planting arrowroot and planting
bananas as any private estate, and sell-
ing them for money, where that money
goes nobody can tell. Because although
we have Councillors who are Members of
the Land Settlement Board, that is kept
as a secret fenian or a masonic order so
far as that is concerned. How then can
you tell me now that we can go and ac-
quire land save and except we put our
own house in order and satisfy the Lee-
ward people from your own abundance
and benevolence, with the lands you have
there pretending to be Government Land
Settlement-an absolute misnomer. You
ever hear that we can be so fictitious or
nominal at least that we call a vast
stretch of square miles of land, Govern-
ment Land Settlement, when nobody is
settled there? When the Government

itself hold lands as private estate in pre-
judice to the community?
Well this motion says: "Be it resolved
that this Government set out to acquire
portions of land." Of course once I was
flying from Zurich in Switzerland to Lon-
don Airport, and when crossing the Alps
flying parallel to that majestic mountain
range clothed in white majesty, I saw a
blanket of clouds looking like land that
you can live there. We saw spots that
we could select for the purpose of housr
ing but alas it was only an imaginary
blanket. Are we going to acquire lands
if we did not use the Land Acquisition
Ordinance, to take lands by force if we
did not open vistas of land by a trans-
insular road? On one side may lie the
lava-burnt valley, on the other side might
be thousands of acres of land. If we
did not do that only impossible men
would talk now of acquiring lands save
and except he means by a Government
decree to get those lands by acquisition,
cut portions of land from estates, throw
the money into the Treasury, if it is that
he means; but if he means otherwise at
all, by the skyrocketing price of land,
that land was increased by custom it was
allowed to increase. Ceiling price for
land was spoken here but only in words,
and you could not have .ceiled it when
people were ready to pay money for land.
You could not have ceiled it when this
Government had varying minds and vary-
ing bodies here, each one his own
opinion, no united thought in the house
to reasonably sit down and discuss 'well
what would we do with this rising pro-
blem before us?" Nothing of the kind.
And gentlemen on that score referring
to the United States share croppers, and
Chicago, as the Mover did, it is right
that we talk big, it is right that we
imagine big; but out of the abundance
of these big imaginations we must do
something for our small imaginings. It
is right that we face facts and in facing
those facts we always project St. Vin-
cent because we could project it on the
scale of an Aruba but we could never
project it on the scale of an America.
Why is it? How would it look? You
would not see it even if you take a micro-

scope. Well then how could you tell us
about share croppers in the United
States which contains vast stretches of
lands as far as the eye travelling in
trains can see. The absurdity lies in the
fact that these far-fetched examples may
only serve to build up the foundation of
a motion, but they will never be able to
be parallel or a comparison when we
are speaking here of poor labourers who
now like those left at Cane Hall in the
constituency of St. George. Well that
must be a blot of course. I would agree-
at such a time that I would fight to the
death if I was even asleep by Rip Van
Winkle's :pell and now awaken. I would
of course seek lands if even I had to clear
them from the firm set clouds above the
land. I am satisfied that we will watch
to see the reaction of the other side.
We have already seen the reaction. If
we were a little more honest in our ac-
tions we would have seen the very effect.
If we were a little more just to our peo-
ple the trouble we are seeing now would
never have been our lot. It is true that
whenever we set out to weave a tangled
web when we practise to deceive a com-
munity that we should have done all
that lies in our power to unite for the
common good. I hope the next Govern-
ment that comes here will learn a vivid
lesson from the areary episodes of parlia-
mentary life.that has visited this place
for the last 6 years.
HON. H. F. YOUNG: Mr. Chairman,
Honourable colleagues, I am at a loss to
know whether my friend the last speaker
means well to his people or just at the
eve of this Council being prorogued is
giving a political speech. I want to ex-
plain to the Mover of the motion, as the
present Gnairman of the Housing and
Planning Authority, and to give facts on
the question raised. It is the policy of
Government to acquire lands. I am very
sorry that the particular piece of land
in your constituency we had not the
necessary funds to acquire it at the time;
but let us go back, I am only here to
throw some light.
The Housing and Planning started
some years ago and my Honourable

gentleman Friend from North Wind-
ward can prove that before he took up
that seat, Mt. Bentinck Bay Road was
slummy and funny. There was. a little
trash there and a little coconut palms,
and that scheme started for those poor
unfortunate people and they were
housed. As he rightly said, our popula-
tion is increasing so fast that after a
time the daughter becomes a big woman
and we have to continue to carry on.
Then this Government is only eighteen
months old and we are grant-aided. We
have water schemes, we have schools to
build, hospitals, because of the population
to see about and so we have to take time;
but let me tell you how many buildings
have been built for these poor unfortu-
nate people, how many have been com-
pleted and how many more we have to
In my friend's constituency as Chair-
man I have just succeeded in acquiring, 5
acres of land at the entrance of George-
town, Corbeau Town from Mr. Childs. It
is only awaiting arbitration, and when
you drive there tomorrow you would see
that there is no arrowroot growing there,
but little flowers and that village is going
to be extended. I was at Sandy Bay a
few Sundays ago and we intend to take
Watchman Piece from Mr. Cyril Barnard
and put your big daughters Honourable
gentlemen and big boyz, because th3
village is crammed up. I told them that
and the Chairman can bear with me that
I wrote the Chairman and we are going
up there in the next few days, and I
would invite the Honourable gentleman
to go along with us. Then at Barrouallie
we took a big portion of the same Land
Settlement Estate and have given to peo-
ple in 5 acre blocks to plant cotton, and
not only that but gave them fertilizer
and I think the Honourable Member for
North Leeward will support that. A
housing scheme was also started there.
Then we go on to Chester Cottage and
Mt Grenan that have been recently com-
pleted. After the Sans Souci estate was
sold we got lands from Hon. Mr. Punnett
as a gift and we have settled the labour-
ers there. Then we go on and you come
to my own garden, that wonderful place,

and I will take you for a drive to see it-
Peniston. In 1951, I stood up and said
"Look where those poor people are liv-
ing." The Housing and Fianning again.
if you go to Peniston you will see some
lovely cottages covered vith galvanize
and felting, and not only, that, with a
lovely bath.
Let me explain to this House. After
you are finished purchasing lands it is
not only the lands that count, it is the
unfortunate people, the situation that
they are placed in, gentlemen, when you
go to house them you find some of them
cannot afford to make that down pay-
ment. You find some of them in such
deplorable condition that you have to
build houses and put them in for no-
thing. You find the repayment so small.
Right.now we have $80*000 out and it is
from the turning of that same money
that we help other people. Apart from
that gentlemen,' there is Petit Bordel.
Some time ago in the last election politics
stopped it, and some men are cheap, but
I believe in results. The issue is bigger
than we. When you do certain things
for people, whether they vote you back
or not, then you are satisfied that you
have served people. Then we have
$38,000 awaiting approval and the Hen-
ourable gentleman knows that our money
is short from the Secretary of State. We
are going to purchase the lands from the
Bishop. We are going to move Coulls
Hill people and put them at Cumberland.
We are going to clean the Layeu Teacher
Road area that i., very dirty. We have a
scheme for C'alliaqua, another for the
pcple at Maloney, and all these remote
areas to put at No. 5. Naturally we can-
not do it without money and the same
way the Secretary of State has approved
the water scheme, in the next few weeks
when we get approval we will start the
ball rolling for these poor people.
Therefore as Councillor I rise here to
give you a history of what is going on.
It is not that we have not got lands ac-
quired, it is not that we are not doing
anything, but it is a small island and we
hive not got enough funds to see about
schools and to see about water, to pay
2Z% to Civil Servants, to raise the teach-

ers salaries-as you know they are crying
-and at the same time doing everything
in one little three years spell; but the
Five Years Development Programme that
was drawn up here, My honourable
Centlcman from North Windward does
not really take time sometimes in Fi-
nance Committee to see how things are
being done. As one Government get into
power he starts canvassing for 4 years in
advance. He does not come around the
table so that we can see how we can
share this little water among us; so most
of the time he is lost. He gets no water
to drink because he keeps quarelling and
eventually-I am sorry to say so but it is
a fact-if you have a few grains of corn
and you have several fowls, a lot of fowls
would not get any at all and instead of
breaking up the team my honourable
friend should cooperate. I can assure
you as Chairman of Housing and Plan-
ning I am going to North Windward and
from the love of people I am going to
see to it from my office that those people
at Corbeau Town, as soon as the aribtra-
tion comes through, are well housed. I
am going to see to the people of Sandy
Bay because as a Member of the Stand-
ing Federation Committee, I have learnt
now not only a little village in St. Vin-
cent, but I have learnt to become a West
So my friend in my office I am going to
serve throughout the island, but to get
back to the point, now that I have given
you a picture we have Chester Cottage,
Mt. Grenan, Peniston, Petit Bordel, Mt.
Bentinck Bay Road, Sandy Bay, Queens-
bury, and Peniston, almost finished and
we are about to go to Coulls Hill and
C'alliaqua. But my dear gentlemen, how
can we do it without that money from
the Colonial Office? Which of you sit-
ting here and because there is a gallery
knowing the purse string there, every
school building in St. Vincent every piece
of pitch rcad came from Downing Street.
.You know that the money we have now
can hardly pay our teachers, can hardly
pay our staff and any major improve-
ment must come from Colonial Develop-
ment and Welfare, and until that
scheme is approved we dare not spend.

I 12 1

It is no use fooling. The $60,000 for the
water scheme for two years in Colonial
Office is now being approved, $39,000 has
been spent at South Leeward. Before
this present Administrator came I took
Walter Flemming Coutts up there. If
some of you were to do those things then
you would get results. Now that it has
been approved we are going to spend it;
but do not sit around this table and
make people to believe that this Govern-
ment has a big pool here to dip in and
we can do things overnight.
Let us reflect back in fairness to all
these eight men. When we took up this
Government in 1951, let me see if I could
remember some of the things that have
taken place. Are you going to say no
improvements? The road to Buccament
Valley was not pitched, the road to Meso-
potamia was not pitched, the road to
Farm for the crops to get out was not
done; a bridge leading over from the
Church at Mesopotamia was not done.
There was no clinic at Buccament Valley,
there was no school at Lowmans, there
was no school at Calder or at Camden
Park. Where did money come from?
Why did not the Honourable gentleman
see to it and reason with the other men
instead of cursing them in the market
and get something for' North Windward.
I am sorry for the people at Ncrth Wind-
ward. Your approach is bad and that
you are suffering the people.....
MR. PRESIDENT: The Honourable Mem-
ber must address the Chair.
Hoi. H..F. YOUNG: Thank you very
much Mr. Chairman. I am not finished.
When we come out here and make
speeches, we are here to show results.
When you make speeches about poor un-
fortunate people, I reply, Mr. Chairman,
to show how we have helped p-or unfor-
tunate people. The same poor unfortu-
nate people that my Hon. friend is say-
ing that we are only now seeing about,
we have five years to prove what we have
been doing for the people. Mr. Chair
man there we-e 6 unfortunate people
once at Chigeridge and the Magistrate
was going to throw their houses by vir-
tue of law down into the drain. Mr.

Chairman I appealed to you and those 6
persons have houses- at No. 8 Peniston.
We have lands throughout this island to
put housing schemes but again after you
have purchased the land, the issue is to
help the people and most of the money
is spent in building the houses and it is
no use buying the land all the time, leav-
ing it there and they are not sheltered.
I can assure you Mr. Chairman in this
House that that Body that I took over
not too long ago I must give praise to
them for the foundation. For your in-
formation let me enlighten you how the
utentral Housing and Planning Authority
started. You fellows are in Council for
years only talking. You do not know
what is going on. The Montrose Housing
scheme through .the emphasis of the
former Government, got the lands and
from selling to Civil Servants were able
to muster some funds. .From their re-
payment they took that fund and started
helping the poor people and so it keep
turning over and as they pay monthly
then we go into the Committee and help
the poor. In your particular case, my
Honourable friend from North Wind-
ward, the sugar cess that is due to the
labourers we see to it that it is not spent
anywhere else but in North Windward and
that is the honest approach because that
is the cane belt. We cannot take that
money and spend it at the Leeward; so
it is the sugar cess money that we are
using to purchase that land from Mr.
Child to shelter the people at Sandy Bay
in your area. I just got up to show even
the Mover of this motion that it is Gov-
ernment's policy to acquire lands all over
the island and we have lands all over
the island to build houses. When you
get to build the houses for the people
you will find the amount of help in gal-
vanise and lumber that you have to give
them and the repayment is so small be-
cause they are so poor, we cannot move
as fast as we would like to move. I hope
you would understand me sir. It is the
repayment because of the sad plight of
he people they cannot afford to pay and
-,e cannot throw them out, because the
:licy is tc' house them. We are going
to give 'hem chances to pay because we

are not going to cover them and then
throw them out. Because of their poor
state the money coming in is so small, it
retards the work.

We have asked again in this Council
and got a special $2,400 to fix houses out-
side of the scheme, where a man making
an effort and he pays down a little part,
gets a credit and pays $5.00 or $2.00 a
month. That has been going on in
several of your constituencies. You
know it, but ladies and gentlemen a half
a gallon of water into a half a gallon pot
cannot fill a one gallon pot. I thank

HON. G. H. CHARLES: Mr. President,
Honourable Members, as a member of
this Government for the past 5 years and
in support of this motion, I am asking
myself the question whether the second
speaker was opposing this motion be-
cause he has an estate owner as a candi-
date .for the coming elections. I am ask-
ing myself this question. Now I wish to
inform my honourable colleagues that as
far as this motion is concerned, these are
the things which we have been doing
for a long time-I can talk for myself as
an individual Councillor or-in Central
Windward. In the year 1053, I succeed-
ed in getting frcm the Honourable A.
M. Punnett 85 acres of land for the poor
workers, as my friend mentioned before,
and those people will get their deed for
that land, only they will not be able to
sell it. Government is the boss to sec to
it that they turn it over from generation
to generation. Ten acres of land for a
settlement was handed over to C.H. &
P.A. to house those people ..n Central
Windward from the Sans Souci estate.
Now when my Hon. friend from North
Windward tells this House that these
men around here sit quietly back and
never try to protect and help until the
time of election is coming. I wish to say
to my friend that at a later stage, as
today is the last meeting in this House,
every Councillor should be brave enough
to get up and tell the public what they
have done for the past 5 years, I wish
then, to ask my Honourable friend in
which tree he would find himself.

I also heard my Honourable Friend
talk about the people in Central Wind-
ward who have securities in Barclays
Bank. I am glad that he mentioned
that The ordinary people in Central
Windward are so ambitious that they
make an effort by selling their cows to
get a piece of land and because of that,
today, Central Windward is known to be
one of the most progressive peasant areas
in the island of St. Vincent. I wish to
ask my Honourable friend: have you ever
moved a motion in this House as this one
today? Well, if it is so, I will bow; but
I wish to say that we must be honest to
the people of St. Vincent and stop fooling
them, because when we talk about "poor
people" we are playing up to the gallery.
In the near future, the people of this
island will see who are fooling them and
who are not, and I can safely cay that
the poor people can see even if they can-
not read-they can see.
Turning back to this motion, I am
sorry to see that the Mover of this mo-
tion probably did not go into the whole
detail of this motion, or he would have
checked to see that some of these things
he asked for were being done. Perhaps
he asked that we might do it in a wider
scale, because I am sure that he knows
that we are trying to do our best. I
have heard all kinds of talk about profit
seeking, that instead of going out to look
after the poor people, members are seek-
ing profit and so on. St. Paul said every
man to his own order. While some of
us are trying to represent the poor peo-
ple, to get something for them, I do
agree, some are really and truly seeking
profit, because I heard, I do not know if
it is true, that some of the men who are
talking about profit seeking have bank
accounts 6f $49,000. Therefore we must
know really who are profit seeking be-
cause the time is not far off when every-
body will see who are the profit seekers.
I do not think that I should go any fur-
ther because the Honourable Member
who is Chairman of the Housing and
Planning Authority has already given
light to this House of the progress of
Government, and I am zorry to see that
we cannot go any faster at this stage;
but I am in full support of this motion.

HON. A. C. CYRus: Mr. Chairman,
Honourable Members, there is very little'
that I can add to this debate because the
Honourable Member for South Leeward
has caught up all the relevant points
t.iat I-meant to deal with; but I could
like to refresh the minds of Members
with the resolution:
"Be it resolved that this Government
set out to acquire portions of land in
various parts of the island which could
be sold to working class people at a
moderate price, which would alleviate
the accute situation that now exists in
finding house-spots."
Now Mr. President, what is the point?
If I had my own way I would say about
this motion "Do not bother to waste time
to debate it," because it is obviously a
fact that the Mover of this motion is
peaching to the converted. This is a
thing that has been going on for a num-
ber of years because this Government
has ever been mindful of its responsibili-
ty to the people. From 1946 the Central
Housing and Planning Authority was
established and a cursory glance around
St. Vincent, not in any particular con-
stituency, but throughout the length and
breadth of St. Vincent, will show. im-
provements made in housing. To bring
this motion here asking to do the same
things that have been going on all along
from 1946 to now, confirms in my mind
what the Member for North Windward
said. It is certainly an election motion,
because this is something that has ben
I have been-I am sorry to be speaking
of myself-I have been associated with,
C.H. & P.A. since 1946, and one can sea
the developments that have been made
from then to now. We have been buying-
lands and selling the land back to the
people at a nominal price. There are
some cases where we sell land at 1 per
sq.ft. I see in the gallery men who were
foundation members of the Authority
Men who did pioneer work' and they
could confirm this statement. Well what
is the point asking Government to do
what they have been doing in the past.
The Member for North Windward
made a very cogent point when he spoke

about depreciation on the value of land.
If you accede to the request of the Hon-
ourable Mover, perhaps you will have to
subsidise it, and we have teen doing that
along from 1946 to 1957. And were
are we getting the funds from to do all
these things? As the Member for South
Leeward said, all this money comes from
Downing Street, H.M. Treasury and as it
comes we develop housing. Right now
we have on our 5 Year Programme
30,000 to develop housing and that
means buying lands at certain price and
giving them a long time to pay, and
along with that, helping people with
materials with which to build. What
more would you ask of Government. I
am prepared to vote in support of this
motion because as I said, this motion is
trying to convert the already converted.
HON. R. E. BAYNES: Honourable Presi-
dent, Honourable Members, I did not
honestly intend to talk on this motion
but I think that the la:I; speaker has
misunderstood to some extent the real
intention behind the motion. Whether
you deem or term it to be a political mo-
tion there is quite a lot of other argu-
ments on the other side to convince me
that it is not soley a political motion.
now I have listened to all that the Gov-
ernment has done with regard to housing
of people; but because of what Govern-
ment has done for housing people, you
have created a certain amount of incen-
tive and ambition among peoples more so
to own their own homes and that is the
issue at stake here. I can tell you right
in Kingstown here that the little you do
with regard to assistance to persons who
are desirous of owning homes might ap-
pear to you to be tremendous, but in the
eyes of those same people and the :um-
ber of them who are clamouring would
be regarded as infinitesimal, very small,
because you can go right here in Kings-
town alone and find at least 500-750
persons who would be ready to say: "I
am prepared to take 'X' sq.ft. of land for
the purpose of building a home."
That is the issue at stake and I can
tell you too, I have had considerable
arguments with the C.H. & P.A. because
they have certain areas here in Kings.

town which could be used but because
they feel that those areas are situated
perhaps within close proximity to the
Government House or within an area
where a certain set of people live, those
areas should not be sold.. I have argued
the point time and time again and do
not tell me you are supporting a motion
because it is brought here and it is an
election motion. It is not purely an
election motion. I could not sit down
here and support that theory that it is
purely an election motion. There is
more in the motion than some of us can
really imagine. Let us go out to the
areas and examine the position and you
will see exactly that the motion is not
purely political.
HON. L. C. LATHAM: Mr. President,
Honourable Members, I sat back here and
listened to various speakers and my time
has just reached now to offer my quota.
You know that we have been taught in
Sunday School that when the world is
coming to an end we will see signs and
wonders, and today we are seeing signs
and wonders here. It says that father
will be against son, son will be against
father, mother against husband; but
today we are seeing here Opposition
against Opposition. We have heard
from the Minister without portfolio a
very nice budget speech. I heard that
same speech at the last budget session
that he made here saying that Govern-
ment is going and we all know that gov-
ernment is going; but the relevant point
is the resolve of this motion with which
we are strictly dealing here.
"Be it resolved that this Government
set out to acquire portions of land in
various parts of the island which could
be sold to working class people at a
moderate price, which would alleviate
the acute situation that now exists in
finding house-spots."
Now dealing with this resolve what are
wve given to understand? What is the
interpretation? When a person has a
few acres of lands for planting his crops
and so on Government will come and say
'I want 2 acres of your land, I will
acquire this 2 acres for the purpose of

selling to the poor people for putting
houses all over the island.' It sounds
ridiculous. This resolve sounds ridicu-
lous. The Hon. Mover of this' motion
owns lands in the South Windward area
and he sold out those lands and in the
same breath he is telling Government
to acquire lands in various parts of the
island from one end to the other. Whose
lands is he watching? I cannot under-
stand. Government in St. Vincent own
nearly all or part of the island and if this
resolve refer to the Government Land
Settlement Estate or portions of land
Government has throughout the length
and breadth of this island, all right; but
he cannot pin-spot one person or several
persons who are developing lands for
agricultural products to say that Govern-
ment must acquire lands.
In the first place I have heard the
Minister without port-folio speaking
about money. No money to go all over
the work to develop housing. He has no
money and he is awaiting approval from
the Secretary of State for the Colonies
before he could further the development
of housing. Where will he get the money
now to acquire lands? I think the
Mover really made a mistake in bringing
this motion to this House. I know we
are grant-aided and subject to correction,
I know that this year H.M. Government
had to subsidise this colony to the tune
of $367,000. I cannot see the point of the
Mover bringing such a motion to this
House. So it is just a vote-catching
motion as one member termed it. It
should never be implemented and at the
same time I would not associate myself
with this motion. This is election time
and everybody here is a labour leader
and labour sympathiser and everybody
sympathise with labour right over-night.
But that would not help the situation.
Today we are coming to a close. It
would not be long before we come to the
end of a perfect day and at a later stage
I would have something more to say.
HON. A. B. DoSSANTOS: Mr. President,
Hon. Members, this motion as I see it, I
do not see what purpose it will serve.
There is a body, the Central Housing and

Planning Authority which has been
operating and working throughout this
colony for years. They have been doing
very good work. I think what the Hous-
ing and Planning has done in St. Vincent
has gone ahead of all the other islands.
In this resolution, sir, the great point
seem to be moderate price. I think
moderate price in the Land Acquisition
Ordinance means if you go into court I
am sure that the court will allow or
adopt moderate price. If it is that the
court is not the proper channel where
such is to be judged or valued or allowed
to be or not to be, I would say sir, that
they must first purge their hearts of envy
anel hate. This resolution states sir that
it gives an incentive to the workers to
leave St. Vincent; but we know that
workers have been leaving St. Vincent
before I was born, many, years ago.
Looking around this House there are' at
least 7 elected members who left St.
Vincent with just the spirit of adventure.
They went away to seek better employ-
ment cr better positions whereby they
would come back to this colony and put
themselves in a better position than they
left. That has been happening for years
and years and it is still going on now.
It is not housing that is the cause of
these people leaving, it is just that they
expect that there will be labour in Trini-
dad as it becomes the capital of the
Federated Group, and many are going
early so as to be able to get in and stay
there until such time when labour will
be wanted.
About finding house spots Mr. Presi-
dent, it is very difficult that a man may
want a house spot at Calvary, you buy
a spot there and when he gets a house
spot up there he wants a road to it. I
think the best way to do this is as it was
done in the past and as we are now
doing. You organise building schemes.
Not just putting a hut up there and one
over there and then coming to Govern-
ment and saying we want a road up
there, we want 'vater- at Calvary. This
must be done in an organized way. This
motion as a matter of fact. is superfluous.
it is not necessary. The Acting First
Nominated Member said that this is a

political motion. I am going to support
that sir. It is so much so that there
seems to be a great nervous tension
throughout this Colony with the Elected
Members who are present here today.
A state of nerves,, and they would come
here and bring all these little things so
as to add to the various baits .they had
before, and want to put more bait so as
to catch votes. That is all that it is. It
is just vote-catching. This motion has
been implemented in the past. It has
been conducted in a very good way and
I could not see what improvements are
necessary, I cannot see how you can go
around a court of justice, or are these
Ministers to be the final tribunal. who will
decide? I say sir you will have a state
of corruption right here.

HON. S. E. SLATER: Mr. 'President,
Honourable Members, I did not intend
speaking on this motion because I have
heard and well know that most of what
'the *motion asks for has been already
implemented; but hearing the Third
Nominated Member speaking on the sub-
ject of hate and grudge, and vote-catch-
ing and what not, I must add my quota.
I believe that whenever you touch lands
you touch the Third Nominated Member
and since those points you refer to are
traits so well-known in his race, I believe
it should hurt him very much.

MR. PRESIDENT: I would ask the Hon-
ourable Member not to use personalities.

HON. S. E. SLATER: I beg your pardon.
Again I would say politics is very dirty,
vote catching is a game and nobody is
going to telLme that whatever you might
be pursuing whether it be for your per-
sonal benefit or advancement, you are
not somewhat put in a tension, or some
nerve might not be tickling you with
anxiety. It is quite true that whenever
you touch land some people's nerves
start jungling around so that they can-
not even keep their seats when they
never got up to speak in this House be-
fore; but as soon as you touch lands
their nerves itch them so much that they
must get to their feet. Thank you.

HON. J. A. BAYNES: Mr. President,
honourAble gentlemen, I have been ill-
treated this morning to an outline of
this motion which has not surprised me.
I expected every inch of it; but I would
like to clear the way so that these gentle-
men around this table who might have
had a hang-over from last night might
be able to think sanely and soberly when
this motion is put to the vote. I will
deal with the remarks made by the Hon-
ourable Member for North Windward
I listened at length to his meander-
ings, using his own term, and I can only
see one thing, that is that he has made
every effort to destroy the motion before
the House today, but he has not attempt-
ed to make one suggestion from which
the people of this House may benefit. It
is fair to say that the Honourable Mem-
ber for North Windward has spent near-
ly six years as a Member of this House
as I have spent, and if he was deter-
mined to take an honest approach about
what was done in those 6 years he would
check the Hansard and he would find
that this is not the first motion of the
kind that I have brought here, but 6;
and while I nmove these motions on
lands, he has been moving motions for
police and prisons. I am not expected to
guide the Honourable Member for North
Windward, neither am I trying to do so,
because I am quite aware that sane and
sober people cannot take offence.
Now the Honourable Member for North
Windward expressed in the Market last
night that he was going to put this mo-
tion under fire. I heard that first thing
this morning. His flame is not even that
of a match. I listened to all that he
had to say and I would venture to say
this that Honourable Member for North
Windward for six years has followed on
one one line, endeavouring to foster a
union to get members on his union for
his own personal financial gains. If I
was in his position I would have done
the same thing because building up a
union has given you a trip behind the
Iron Curtain, and things of the kind.
Hence whether the question of unions is
of progressive benefit to St. Vincent, I

am in no position to say; but I know a
motion such as this is one that has the
interest of St. Vincent in it.
I am quite aware that we have a prob-
lem in this House and that is the planter
system has not changed. The moment
you mention lands you find yourself un-
der fire. When the Acting First Nomi-
nated Member said that this motion is
vote-catching, perhaps he is right. This
is a time when every member of this
House is making an effort to catch votes.
It is whether or not they do it in the
correct way. When you go out to fish,
the man who has that bait that will
attract fish will bring in the best catch.
That goes without saying. I do not be-
lieve it needs any amount of brain to say
that. But the question of land goes
deeper than that, goes deeper than
catching votes in that the wealth of an
agricultural country is lands, and no max
with a few acres of land today want to
hear from rUmour that they want to cut
off 10 acres of his land.
That outline made by the Acting First
Nominated Member that what this mo-
tion seeks is already in progress, is not
true. Right around this Table, the Presi-
dent and everybody here know that all
housing schemes were started to assist
in giving estate workers a better way of
life, somewhere better to live than that
place provided for them by the estate
owners who were just selfish and made
an effort to exploit the interest of the
workers. Well those were imperial days.
We are in a changing world where every
man is becoming conscious of the fact
that He deserves a better way of life, and
that labour is compatible with money.
Being that conscious you either go out to
meet him or he goes out to seek opportu-
nities elsewhere. When the question of
housing schemes first started, it was
started for estate workers. Today we
have made a few ventures here and there
not only in estate areas; but if you
check the number of places assisted by
the Minister without port folio, you will
see this. He named Langley Park, Mt.
Bentinck Bay Road, Sandy Bay, Peniston,
Chester Cottage, all estate centres. I am
mot talking about that at all because in

various parts of St. Vincent you have a
working force the majority of people who
work around Kingstown, come from as
far as Riley and Cane End and they come
in to town to work. Some of these people
have a little thatched hut on rented
lands and today when the banana indus-
try is offering an invitation to people who
own a plot of land, all they do is ask the
fellow to clear off the lands they want
to plant bananas. The fellow cannot
find any place to put his house, and I
am asking Government to make an effort
to give consideration to that man.
At Arnos Vale to Fountain, you will
find about 50 persons who are willing to
find a spot of land to put a house. You
had a woman who lived on the Cane Hall
lands. She worked with the owners of
the Cane Hall Estate and she had a few
dollars that could have bought her a bit
of land but she could not get it to buy.
She came to me, I took her to someone
who I knew had a bit of land for sale and
today her house is removed and put
there. There are a lot of those cases.
Government should have seen to it that
these estate owners who have kept the
people as chattels all these years, gave
them a piece of land. They bought them
as part and parcel of the estate and they
are treated as such because when they
die they give them a bread-fruit box and
the workers follow them to be buried.
That is all they got. I am not talking
of that person at all. I am talking of
the'man who has already got away from
the estate and is ready to become a land
owner-in his own country. That is the
fellow I am talking of and whether or
not this motion is vote catching, it is
a motion that deserve the consideration
of every member here if he has the
island of St. Vincent at heart.
You also have the question of the
assistance outlined here by the Minister
without port folio, to people all over the
Island. We all know that in civilised
parts of the world Government is a
paternal Government and should see to
the ills of its subjects. Help them to
acquire land, see that they are employed
and things of the kind. Well those are
things that we hope to reach to perhaps

after a number of years, but we must be-
gin somewhere, therefore when i listen-
ed to the criticisms hurled on this motion
it told me that what we have around
this table are some men who have an
inclination to be dishonest and in their
dishonesty they are here because they
represent the same poor unfortunate
people. For 6 years I have fought along
this line and I am sure that crowds of
people can tell yo that the Honourable
Member for St. George has assisted me
in doing this. It would mean that to
those members who are determined to
tell people throughout the length and
breadth of St. Vincent that all they do
comrades is to oppose my motions when
I bring them, he is fighting to find gram-
matical mistakes in the motion, but if
he look in his own motion he will find a
lot of grammatical mistakes there.
Hence commonsense tells me that what
we want in this island is to get revolu-
tion on the machinery of progress so
that the people of St. Vincent will revolt
at some future time against those whom
they had elected to represent them in
this House.
Gentlemen I believe that this motion
is one which ought to have your support
and I hope that those of us who claim
that this is merely vote-catching and
only brought here at election time, will in
future bear in mind that with your pres-
ent constitution these motions have to
be more or less stock-piled until the time
when your estimates is to be prepared so
that they would be taken and put into
effect. They should not keep on talking
rubbish to fool somebody who may not
know how the Government operate.
These motions as moved should be moved
at a time prior to your estimates so that
when they are stockpiled and taken out
by those you elected as Ministers, so that
you may have something from which to
compile your estimates for the coming
1958 whether I am a member of this
House in that year, yes or no.
HON. C. L. TANNIS: Mr. President,
Honourable Members, I listened with
great concern to the motion moved by the
Member for St. George. I was at a loss
at one time to know whether the Opposi-

tion had divided itself into bits and to
see the able and loyal Opposition come
forward today and oppose and cut to
pieces a very good motion that was
moved by one Member of the Opposition,
and pointed out to thiz House that the
motion is being brought here by Minis-
ters to catch votes. I must clear that off
the air because the motion was moved
and introduced to this House by the
Member for St. George who is a member
of the Opposition. This motion should
have the support of this Government, if
this Government means well to its peo-
ple. No one would disagree with the fact
that Central Housing and Planning Au-
thority has been- doing and is doing a
proper job but this motion goes a bit
further to ask for house spots generally,
not just on a particular housing scheme;
but for house' spots throughout the is-
land. At this stage the motion is timely
because there is an opportunity while we
are seeking for additional funds from
C.D. & W. reserve, that this motion
should be passed in this House, and that
while the Government or Administra-
tion who will deal with it later on will
make provision or get funds from the
C.D. & W. Allocation in the future, or
from the colony's funds to provide such
areas which can be sold to the people at
a reasonable price.
We are all greatly concerned and quite
a lot of, people are without spots on
which they could build and even if they
can build the money that they have in
hand will just barely purchase the land
at the high price at which it is being
sold these days. I thought that the
leader of the people as he claims to be-
the Member for North Windward-and
other elected members of the Opposi-
tion would have given every support
to a motion of this kind instead of
coming here today and trying political
meandering and trying to outline to
the gallery that Ministers are bringing
motions because elections are in the
air. The House is not yet dissolved
and I think it is the right of any member
here who want to bring motions to the
House to bring them and have them
debated. The point is that many of us

do not know who .will be here to carry
on but whether you are here or not the
country must go on and provision must
be made for the people.
I sympathise however, with certain
land owners of the House for making a
vigorous attack on this motion, but I do
not think the Honourable Mover has any
intention to dispossess any particular
land owner of this country unduly from
their lands which they now hold; He
only seeks that Government acquire
small portions in areas where it is needed
so that people who are desirous of build-
ing houses can obtain land at a reason-
able price. I hope that the Members,
elected and nominated if they are truly
interested in the progress of this country
and the people concerned that they will
give their support to this motion and if
you fail to vote in favour of this motion
I would deem you an obstruction.
The motion was carried nine votes to
two with one abstention.
Adjourned 12.05 p.m.
Resumed 2.15 p.m.
HON. E. T. JOSHUA: Mr. President,
Honourable Members, at this early stage
I may ask an alternative amendment of
this motion, then the motion, if that
amendment is accepted, will read .as
"BE IT RESOLVED that either polling
day 1957 be proclaimed a public holi-
day so that many persons who are often
restrained by their employers from
casting a vote owing to the manner of
their employment be allowed to exer-
cise their democratic and civic right
or that the time of close of poll be
increased by a reasonable period to
enable workers coming in from far
distant places after work be allowed to
cast their vote."
At this stage I will 'debate the motion
but I put forward a timely and early
amendment. Mr. President Honourable
Members we are living in a democratic
age and of course we agree that the
patterns of past elections and the sha-
dows of the coming election convince me

that a motion of this kind is essentially
necessary. During the course of last
week, the press representing public
opinion wrote an editorial to this motion.
Unfortunately for us.like Grenada if the
Grenada 'West Indian' had written a
verison to the motion the 'Torchlight'
might have written the opposite version
or the opposite view, and many other
small papers might have had their views;
but it is a sad state of affairs that even
journalism is couched along one trend.
Even if the one press is true they gen-
erally try as much as they can to publish
some other views; but not the opposite
views when they cannot publish it. The
question of public opinion is one which
some may think is stamped out in St.
Vincent. At one time public opinion was
respected in this country, but alas for us
in such a modern age we see a brazen
and blatant attempt to ignore altogether
public opinion in this country. But be
that as it may, it is right that one should
have a regard for public opinion and I
have read carefully the motion being
put in a front page in an editorial. I
found therefore that I have struck at the
heart of a democratic principle in which
many voters who otherwise would have
had a chance to go to the polls were
denied in a practical way the right to
The 'Vincentian' editorial went on to
say in no mistaken terms that there are
laws and any employer who denies the
employee the right of an hour to go to
the polls there is legislation to punish
him. I laughed at that part. The ques-
tion is, what wan the experience in 1954?
A batch of labourers from a certain es-
tate was sent to work in the high woods
on that special day regardless of the fact
that during the course of normal days,
weeks, months, years, you find this. No
one cares and all those days, to see that
the poor labourer within a few weeks, the
poor labourer in theory and on paper
been made labour leaders out of all of
us, been made unionists out of all of us
and the real unionists now fooling the
people, while these men drive about the
town in happy life. This man whom
they think the public is foolish, ignorant
public, he is fooling the people. The

question arises on this motion, that it is
quite true for the Civil Servant, for the
Store Worker, and for all those types of
people it might be different, but it is
common knowledge that most labourers
reach late in many instances to cast
their votes especially if it is known that
those labourers -that they scatter all
about, have the intention to vote for
somebody who the powers that he did
not want a vote to be cast for. It is
clear. This is human nature, neverthe-
less, but there should be given every
ample opportunity in a democratic age.
It is no good saying that we have adult
suffrage. It is no good saying that we
make general election laws. It is no
good saying that we, under election ordi-
nance in council certain offences should
iot be committed by law and still on
that day, polling day, we blind our eyes
to it because those offences were com-
mitted by people who are above the law.
The question that these sorts of things
should if we respect the queen's laws and
decency and morality, we should not go
so far as to complicate a community by
making even a whisper. It is said, 'let
not justice be done but let it appear to
be done' would allay the fears that some
unjust treatment was meted out to you.
The reason why I have amended this
motion is simply this: the Vincentian
Editorial went on t& say-they were
meticulously careful-had the poor work-
er for whom labour leaders come out now
by the gross in this country to vindicate
their cause in all respects at the proroga-
tion of the House, or a few days before it.
The question of the labourer whose demo-
cratic rights for which he of his owiffree
will should use that adult suffrage
franchise to set up for himself a govern-
ment in which he may put his trust for
all these improvements that this motion
seeks to effect. This is the key to giving
him a chance to exercise his votes.
Now one may say that a holiday added
to so many holidays would be too many
holidays. Speaking generally the man
wh- works in the office perhaps it might
be too many holidays for him; but the
w-ker you seek to protect is always on
holiday. The Minister for Trade and

Production only has to come out of his
ministry and go by the Public Works
Department and see workers on perpetual
holiday begging for a day work. The
children are begging for bread, the
parents are hungry. The fact remains
you will notice that from since the sugar
crop was closed, sugar crop should be a
fundamental crop, but since the crop was
closed, neither weeders, neither cane cut-
ters, neither factory workers had a day's
work for 49 days, 7 weeks. But yet we
come here 'poor worker will be deprived
of a day work.' That is the day that any
worker if he knows the truth while he
lives in an island like this at all, should
even ask that that day has 48 hours in-
stead of 24. Let Joshua make the sun
to stand still and give us 48 hours so that
they can exericse their democratic
The question of an editorial in the
press. The reason why I am so con-
cerned about that editorial is that I
respect public opinion brought into this
House. I was to have brought the edi-
torial, and inf abeyance to even a section
of public opinion I move an amendment
to the motion. Even if that editorial
even voiced a section of the community,
yet it is public opinion and since it is
public opinion I must take my commis-
sion why the motion is amended. Now it
is .true say throughout or dreary parlia-
mentary life here as the Honourable
Member is making a point this morning-
said 'we see signs and wonders'. I go
further, we may see false prophets and
false labour leaders that if it were possi-
ble they will deceive the very elect among
the working class at this hour. The ques-
tion is Mr. Chairman, Honourable Mem-
bers that statement made by the Honour-
able Member here this morning is a state-
ment that may be taken lightly but we
are seeing signs and wonders, when a
whole Government block for a motion
ganged up and voted for publicity for a
motion that they would have opposed
tooth and nail if it. were an ordinary
course of this council in session.
The question-that does not matter,
that is by the way, obiter dictam-but
the question now arises Mr. Chairman,

the question of voting. We have so
many thousand votes. To be precisely
correct if we take the 8 constituencies
and call it roughly eight fives are forty
thousand votes. Let us therefore call it
as for the electoral list; but 40,000 votes
in St. Vincent is just the number of
votes of one constituency of say the is-
land of Trinidad, to say nothing of
Jamaica. When I ran for the seat at San
Fernando In 1950, North Port-of-Spain
had 31,000 votes. I believe the Honour-
able Minister got 7 of them. The ques-
tion is, you have here a motion seeking
as any one opposing it or set of them
would tell you that if you increase the
time dark is going to meet you. They
don't mind where men are in a country
to protect the country and its democra-
tic implications, they do o-it mind that
radio broadcasts up to 12 or one o'clock
the results of election boxes are coming
in. They are happy to know that in
those boxes lie the democratic rights of
the people coming to decide not by plebis-
cite but by their franchise what govern-
ment they ought to have in the land.
Therefore If we say that adult suffrage
is here, if we are now talking of a broad-
er and freer stretch of democratic insti-
tutions, in our country, it i:. but only
right, the bounden duty of men who are
custodians of that right to see to it that
the machinery is so oiled that every man
or woman of the legal age of 21 years
should have no obstruction whatsoever
in casting that vote. Let jur.tice be done
to them all though the heavens fall.
And so this amendment which the
former motion told us only of a holiday,
well public opinion as far as the press
go say these people have a right to get
time off. I know they have a right. In
writing sometimes you have not a chance
to express as fully as you would like, but
since the press in fairness to the Mover
of this motion hearing the debate they
will see clearly that my intention was
not to deprive the labourer of a day's
work. I would be the last man to do
that irrespective of what you think and
you know that is true; but the question
is to make sure that every one has the
right to exercise that democratic right.

This motion seeks to leave no stone
unturned because this is what has hap-
pened: North of the .dry river the es-
tate of Orange Hill for instance extend in
far domains, lands as far as the eye can
see and coconut ranges. The voting of
that polling station in 1954 was very low.
Many of the labourers had to go far out
to work and when they reached back
they were late the polls were closed,
Some people came up, sometimes things
so work out that because it is a working,
day perhaps that election day where
work is found more than any other day
for some people and since work is found
more than any other day you come to
find that he is handicapped from cast
ing his vote. This motion is asking
therefore that if the greater portion of
this community know their civic rights
and. know how to enforce it well, they
perchance can exercise their rights, with-
out a day. We know full well that when
the press says the poor worker will be
deprived of a day's work they know that
Government officials would get paid for
their day. They know that certain
monthly store workers would be paid for
their day, but they forget that the poor
worker whom we seek to say would lose
a day's work, as far as, public opinion in
the press says, we know very well that
those same workers are not sure whether
they will be working the whole week of
election week or the week before it and
we know it very well. So then the target
was. not the Civil Servants, because their
day is assured, not the store workers,
because monthly paid store workers will
be assured; but the worker the poor
labourer whose votes are needed most,
to rectify his democratic disability in a
country by his votes, that poor worker
would be deprived of a day work. And
yet we know that for the balance of the
month of September he may never lift a
stroke for that matter because that is
thp common knowledge that in crop time
work is given, and when they even know
that we can do something to keep them
going no, let those fields grow grass, let
them get undergrowth, the task is, the
same, we have nothing to lose but they
will have to chop it down if they must
get a hard time. They only get a day in

a week or two weeks. It is an easy
thing. He is always the pawn in the
game for everything that men do in this
country. He-is the pawn directing the
game. The poor worker is going to
suffer, while we are suffering him,
whether he sees from which angle he is
suffering or not.

So then if we think of this motion in
terms of a holiday or if we think in
terms of placing a reasonable time if
even he is sent 6 miles off to work and
when he leaves an hour added to the
time of close of poll well then that would
give him ample time to have no excuse if
even he broke off at four. And no won-
der he is having a hard.time because we
know, common knowledge in the country,
that nobody cares. Poor worker! Tax!
House! He does not know that the thing
you get it from is labour. It begins we
say 96 cents for a woman, so much for a
man, and what all of these newly sprung
labour leaders can see, it cannot be that
if by pure simple mathematics if a task
was so many rods and the minimum
wage by government has increased to so
much, if I double that task and keep
them two days in the field I have de-
feated completely the minimum wage.
Gentlemen that is how law is defeated
here. We are not saying that laws are
not made or that the public opinion
voiced by the Vincentian Press. We are
not saying that the law is not there; but
it could be circumvented, they could be
made of none effect and they are made
of none effect, because it is true that all
we have to do 'Oh yes, they make law to
give him a day no, let us come out and
oppose it quickly.' But if the unexpected
happens that he still moved the motion
because we know he is only foolhardy, we
expect to wrap up rattlesnakes, and
corals and put them in their bosom and
say they would not sting them. You play
with learning, sneer and jeer at it when
you have the power to do it. You sneer
at intelligence but that same intelligence
is like a coral, arrogant and foolhardy
men say it cannot bite them; but hola
it and put it in your bocom it is going
to sting you. Let the fool remain with
learning in this country.

The question now arises gentlemen
that motions moved here, sensible mo-
tions brought here, motions with true
motives. This would not serve the con-
stituency. This would concern the whole
island, all party leaders. Only one of
them is here. A motion like this must
affect every party leader. Oh excuse me.
The Honourable Member, I forget that
you claim to be a party leader. The
question is that a motion here knowing
full well the nature of our country. It
i. a country run not on orthodox lines.
We are trying to get the country on
orthodox lines. Some do not want
unions, some ridicule the unionist
who try his best, break his sinews,
crack his bones, he takes no part
in it, yet he knows all the internal work-
ings of it, how it is going on and how it
is. Well then if the motion here before
this Honourable House seeks to ask for a
day public opinion say a day is too much.
He means to say a day is too much the
poor worker will be deprived of that day,
well the Civil Servants would get a day
uselessly, they must work for the day,
we agree; but then to satisfy public
opinion, the motion is amended before
debate was even commenced I placed
that motion here. If you cannot see the
way to vote for a day it is too much, you
would have men who will get a day's pay
for nothing as you may think, well then
we are asking my amendment or by a
second part of the motion, that we in-
crease the hour of close of poll at least
an hour or so that whether his task take
him until 5 o'clock, he would still have
an hour to walk home. He might per-
force get through still to cast that pre-
cious gift of the Queen, his vote. I think
that is clearly put. Hence the motion
did not state a time and someone may
ask the time. The law says 5 o'clock
the polls should be closed. We will be
modest of even extending that to even
an hour to make assurance doubly sure,
that all means whereby was given to the
voter that he leaves his work because
you cannot tell the employer where to
send his workers especially if that day
demands his time within walking dis-
tance he could not get back in time after
breaking off work to cast his vote. You

cannot tell him what to do. Human na-
ture is so complex and the more we see
ourselves primitive men, our selfishness,
hatred and anger is shown more clearly,
more envy is seen quite clearly, when
the more you develop, the more you
learn, the more you are cultured the less
you see of those types of propensities in
a country. Well time may come. The
motion now needs no further debate.
HON. 8. E. SLATER: Mr. President, Hon-
ourable Members, I beg to second the mo-
tion. Since I believe adult suffrage was
brought in an given as a right to the
poor unfortunate people, I think it is
right that they have a chance to give
vent to their own feelings, that is the
opportunity to vote. I am saying it
makes no difference whether you pro-
claim polling day a holiday or not be-
cause since I have been in this Govern-
ment I have seen other days being pro-
claimed holidays that were not in the
statute books, or was not a holiday in
the past. For that reason there is no
use laughing or there is no use thinking
anything funny about it, because I my-
self had quite a lot of difficulty in my
area on that very polling day. You
might laugh, but it caused me to spend
over $3,OGO because voting went on until
5.30-6.00 p.m. which caused a bye-elec-
tion. If that will be able to eliminate
such a situation I believe that for such
a cause polling day should be made a
holiday. There is nothing funny about it
as far as I am concerned, I am not play-
ing up and I am not doing anything for
anybody but I am declaring because in
truth and in fact it was a block in my
way in the past. Since that is so I have
a right to add my quota and I believe
that if this House decide to make it a
holiday, they have not committed a
crime because more crimes than that
were committed may be behind closed
doors. For that reason I have nothing
more to say but I am asking with all
earnestness that polling day be made a
holiday for more than one reason as I
have explained.
HON. H. F. YOUNG: I think cricket is
going on now and Mr. Chairman, excuse
me gentlemen, and if the umpire set the

four boundary, at any time, the first man
who bats hits the ball into four, the
second team goes in and it is the same
boundary. I do not know what we are
saying now about the question of people
going to the polls. We might be inter-
fering with our own people. Who do not
like people going to the polls? I quite
agree with the Mover. I was speaking to
Mr. Alves who is in charge and he told
me this is what he is going to do. He is
going to try to have more polling stations
so that whereas A to Z used to go to one
polling station you will send A to K to
one polling station and L to Z to another
which would offset quite a lot of worries.
In other words, whereas Layou for in-
stance only had 2 polling stations, they
are going to have three now. But that
is not only the point. The other point is
that this is the last meeting of Legisla-
tive Council and the law requires an
amendment. Can we do it now? Let us
face facts. We have no more sittings
and it takes three times for a bill. Can
we now amend the law when there is no
other sitting of the Legislative Council.
I would like to be educated on that by
the Crown Attorney. This is our last
meeting, my mind is open, let me find
out now if this Legislative Council at its
last meeting, when it is going to be dis-
solved, can move an amendment right
here and have it passed three times and
make it law. The Governor has to
assent to it and the Governor is not in
Grenada. Gentlemen if that can hap-
pen, I will support it. That is the point.
I want an explanation.
dent Honourable Members, before com-
ing to the point raised by the Honour-
able Member for South Leeward, while I
can understand the anxiety of the Hon-
ourable Mover of this motion with regard
to voters having adequate time to exer-
cise their votes, the point is this that I
am satisfied that the law deals very ade-
quately with the question of elections.
The law provides, for an employer- to
grant an hour apart from the mid-day
meal hour. In addition to that the law
provides a substantial penalty on any
employer who directly or indirectly not

only refuses to grant that extra hour but
who interferes with the grant of it. He
has a further hour before normal work-
ing hours and another one after working
hours. In other words he gets an hour
in the morning before 8 a.m. and an-
other after 4 o'clock in which time to
exercise his vote. Be that as it may, it
does seem to me that proclaiming polling
day to be a bank holiday is likely to
defeat the object of the Honourable
Mover, because it does not matter how
you take it, on that day a number of
people will embark on their usual holi-
day activities. Some of them will forget
to carry out their duty as far as elections
is concerned, and others will not only
embark on their holiday activities, but
they will to a certain extent be in a
holiday spirit and make the work of the
election officers even more difficult.
As far as extending the time for elec-
tions is concerned, amending the law is
out of the question at this stage as time
does; not permit.
HON. L. C. LATHAM: Mr. President,
Honourable Members, as the motion
stands I do not see that it is so very hard
forit to be amended. I read the com-
ments in the editorial, but it is for some
of us to study the environment of this
whole island before we come to public
opinion and before we can say this is
the voice of St. Vincent that speaks. We
should acquaint ourselves with the en-
vironmeih. If we should take the work-
ers that work at Montrose, all over
Kingstown area, Carpenters and Masons
and Labourers, those employees are
frpm Central Windward, South Wind-
ward and South Leeward areas. None
of them belong to Kingstown, if so, a
very small number, about 2 or 3 percent;
but they are the people who come from
all atout, even 11 miles in the country.
In 154 I saw what happened with the
mnjaity of workers from Montrose area.
ihey were supposed to get an hour as
Sthe la says and they found it very
difficult to get to Central Windward and
Sbioth. Windward to cast their votes.
They were handicapped by work from
getting transportation. They h a v e
buses grid trucks that take these men to

and from and they leave Kingstown at a
certain specified time and they could not
get there in time to cast their vote. Let
us assume that work is opened at Mon-
trose and he gets one hour from his em-
ployer to go to Mesopotamia to cast his
vote. What will happen? He will take
one hour from Montrose to Mesopotamia
which is 9-10 miles away, something im-
possible. So before giving our opinion
we should find out the hardship of
voters who are working far distances to
get to their respective polling stations
You had a striking example here in 1954
at Barrouallie polling station. After 5
and 6 o'clock the people'were just from
work, because the employer on that day,
if he is not for a certain candidate, send
them miles out in the interior to work.
Miles out so that they cannot get in at
all until afer 5 o'clock when the polls are
closed. He gave them an hour but they
can neyer get in the polls. As the Mem-
ber for North Leeward said just now that
it caused a lot of trouble here in 1954.
Public opinion went high and I think
that this law could be amended to read
from 5-6. I see nothing hard to be done
in it. This is not a 10-year thing to
change it from 5 to 6. 'An application
could be made to the Governor and re-
quest him that the time be changed, just
the time, so that people who work at a
given distance have sufficient time to
cast their vote. On the Government
side I see a lot of smiling across the table
but they should be glad that this motion
came up because if it is good for one, it
is good for all I think.
Hox. E. T. JOSHUA: This is the duty
of a democratic motion before this
House, the right to reply. When you
speak here and have no right to reply a
man knowing that, says anything he
would like to say. Now .I am going to
show you gentlemen a point how you
think we on the other side of the table
are ignorant people. Just this morning
you.were saying when it was drawn to
your attention that prorogation takes
place today and that since prorogation
takes place today, the proper business of
this House, so'far as the types of motions
are being brought here could not be im-

plemented but you insist to say, because
we see what has happened this morning,
that it could be left over. But after this
election a new government would be
formed. Unless you are going out here
to strain stallions as you were shown in
1954 and you are hoped to be seen back
here. "Strain stallions". You remem-
ber that phrase? The question is could
we now amend that motion? This is
prorogation day. Why prorogation day?
Mr. PRESIDENT: Honourable Members
I must clarify what the Honourable
Member has said because he has used the
words more than once. This is not
exactly prorogation day. This is the last
official meeting of the Legislative Coun-
cil and as I said at the last meeting, the
House will probably be prorogued on or
about the last day of July and that will
be Prorogation Day. It is possible that
there may be meetings of Select Commit-
tees or Finance Committee in the mean-
time. The moment the House is pro-
rogued, there will be no meetings of
these Committees. So the House is not
being prorogued today, this is the last
public meeting.
HON. E. T. JOSHUA: Sir, you have
clarified it to suit the very purpose of
which I am speaking. We are not com-
ing back here to debate motions or to
pass motions, and the remarks made here
are tantamount to saying that this
special motion' because it is moved by me
cannot be implemented because it is the
last meeting and we would not be having
time to do it. But the motions that are
being passed here, fundamental motions,
cannot be implemented at all, impossible
as the day is long. Those motions could
be implemented because they are passed
here lock stock and barrel. That is the
defence I see they are trying to make
here and I am determined to show that
that is no defence at all.
The question is, the learned Crown
Attorney made certain remarks which
might be for or against of course in one
part of the motion-either or-we know
what that means and for those who do
not know, let me explain: Either the
one part of the substantial motion or the

other. Either that we stick to the holi-
day, brave the public opinion expressed,
or that from what we know and trying to
blind our eyes and stifle our consciences
here, that despite law, despite what the
learned Crown Attorney reads that hap-
pened in practice, something else obtains.
And if it even happens glaringly no step
will bo taken against the class of people
who .perpetrate those crimes. We saw it
in Kingstown here at the last polling day
-that canteens of rum were moving along
the, town irrespective of what were the
regulations of this Government and ao
step was taken. We are not fools ant we
are not going to be fools. It is clear as
light that there will be no step taken
according to the type of people who per-
'petrate .those election offences. This
Government would blind its eyes to it;
but persecute other people if they corn-
mit those same offences. I am strong
and clear on the point. The question is
that we saw it in Kingstown here with
our own eyes, we talked under cur hats:
"Look what they do, shame!" But not
one soul acted. You forget? You for-
get very quickly. We are at a loss to find
out how it is that these members can
treat logic and fact with such gross in-
difference when they are now expressing
that this motion cannot be implemented
because here was no time to do so; but
the motions moved by you there is no
time to do, and this is a motion you have
ample time to do. Suppose the Secre-
tary of State send back to say something,
you will amend it fast here, and you
claim to be the Government of this
country by an Elected majority and now
you' are saying what cannot be done and
what canh be done. I agree with the
learned Crown Attorney that they are
either tit for tat, because he knows, he
is a stranger to our country and he has
seen the callous indifference of our peo-
ple to their own civic rights; so I agree
with him when he says that they- will go
holiday seeking, they will go to the bath-
ing beach an forget thier country is at
:take, wake up tomorrow to find, wear-
ing out a man whg never do anything
but yet.he is always nailed to the stick-
ing post to the cross; but he never does

anything. Look at impossible men! We
are not saying you are impossible. You
are as possible as ever.
The question is could we now amend
the law? Could we go through to amend
the law to swing the Land Acquisition
Ordinance into force to do all of that?
It would be done in time, to distablise
everything which we know is only impos-
sible. But just because this seeks to aim
at a point which is quite true and obvi-
ous practically held in our country, there
is a difference of opinion. Remember
what has happened in Kingstown in 1954.
I never hoped*to live to see in my coun-
try an election run by all codes of demo-
cratic institutions being flouted to return
certain candidates. I am saying it was
-foul and stink and smelled to high
heavens in the light of common day in
the capital of a country. Therefore it
should be this Government's bounden
duty to break the immorality of that
stench which stagnated in the political
gutters so that all ample means should
be given to cause a democratically held
election in this country. We are going
to a Federation. The things you are
doing here when I go I know how much
weight those things have against us.
The fools we make of ourselves thinking
that we are just doing harm to an in-
dividual whom we hate, we are doing
immeasurable harm to our country;
because remember the insularity of your
country because you are changing from
Downing Street to having whatever grant
in aid passed through your federal par-
liament for distribution and of course if
West Indians in other:Islands in a Fed-
eration behave, like us, God help a West
Indian Federation! And I say this, when
I come here with a motion it is brought,
it is explained and it is left in the hands
of the Council.
Let me tell you what is the resolve that
polling day be a holiday or that a rea-
sonable increase of time- to the time now
given, that is to say, if the close of poll
by those polling officials-human nature
is really peculiar, feel nice when the door
is closed and there is an endless line of
voters outside. That is what they feel

nice for. It is your own country you are
putting on the water line. Only time
will- show and your children will have
to abide by what you do. The question is
now before this House (1) that the day
called polling day be given a public holi-
day or that the time of close of poll be
amended to a reasonable time to make
assurance doubly sure, that every voter
under adult suffrage be allowed to cast
his vote. That time may be an hour.
Instead of the scanty time of 5 o'clock we
may say 6, because in Trinidad it is done
and all the votes of St. Vincent is one
constituency. All we can say, averaging
the total amount of votes, we could say
eight fives are forty thousands. One
constituency has 31,000 to 40,000 votes.
One constituency of the 24 constituen-
cics. That is the motion gentlemen.
The motion with amendment was lost
Whereas we are on the eve of a Fed-
eration and the economy of the island
should be given every measure of at-
And whereas the public have been
reliably informed that there would be
a shortage of sugar for approximately
four months of this year, 1957.
And whereas importing sugar at a
higher price from Barbados would be
bad economy and a means of bolster-
ing Barbados economy and sugar crop.
And whereas the export of sugar has
been given preference over the require-
ment of local consumption.
Be it resolved that this Government
see to it that in the, future a supply of
sugar to cover local consumption be
reserved to prevent funds going out for
payment of sugar to the neighboring
Mr. President, Honourable gentlemen,
this is a motion which in my estimation
needs the attention of this House so that
a clear cut outline be given to the general
public. From rumour I have been told
that our supply of sugar for local con-
sumption is practically expended. The
merchants start running here and there

making an effort to hoard up a couple
bags of sugar of what is left at the pre-
sent moment that could be purchased.
I think that the economy of St. Vincent
depends largely on making an effort to
preserve the supply of sugar for our
island's consumption; because when
sugar has to be imported from the neigh-
bouring island of Barbados for consump-
tion here there are two things which add
up to increase the cost. One is freight
from Barbados and the other is duty on
sugar imported. As a consequence, the
public is made to buy Barbados sugar at
a higher price than they would have
bought local sugar for if we had a supply
reserved for local consumption. I believe
that the Minister for Trade and Produc-
tion should be able to throw some light
on this motion. This motion as prepared
by me is merely a consequence of what
I heard.- I do not know what is the
actual stocks of sugar at Mt. Bentinck, I
can only tell you what I have heard from
rumour, and if that rumour is true 1
would like to acquire some light on this
motion. As a consequence I have pre-
pared a resolve which is subject to cor-
rection because there might be points of
issue on this motion of which I have not
had inside information.
To me the economic stability of St.
Vincent is a matter that at this time of
St. Vincent's economy needs primary at-
tention. While this was done very often
in the past, I feel that presently overy
measure should be taken to prevent,
repetition of what actually took place int
the past. In the past, it was just a ques-
tion of the merchants. As far as I can
see at one time the Mt. Bentinck, Sugar
Estate had to comply with a quota which
they had to satisfy and when the quota
was delivered or shipped to United King-
dom whatever was left was sold on the
local market, and when finished we im-
ported an additional supply from Barba-
dos. That has not been so for quite a
few years and now that the same thing
is in the wind I wonder if this Govern-
ment has merely been allowing things
to go as they please, or if they have been
taking stock of the preservation of our
island's economy. If they have been

taking stock perhaps the Minister for
Trade and Production will be able to tell
me; but what is rumoured around town
tells me that there is going to be a
shortage of sugar. I hope the explana-
tion that the Minister might give might
be able to satisfy this House; but I still
feel that in future steps should be taken
to prevent a repetition of what is about
to happen here in having a shortage of
sugar which merely serves to weaken our
economy and bolster that of Barbados.
This motion gentlemen does not need any
lengthy outline because those people who
are interested in this island's economy
perhaps have heard as I have heard.
that there is going to be a shortage of
sugar. I hope that as a result of this
motion when debated, a certain amount
of light will be brought out and the
assurance that prevention of this short-
age will be taken care of in future.
HON. E. T. JOSHUA: Mr. President,
Honourable Members, what' strikes me
when I read this motion-I am speaking
as the seconder of this motion. What
struck me very forcibly when I read this
motion is simply this: the timing of this
motion with certain remarks in the elec-
tioneering campaigns that were being
made in the Central-and North Wind-
ward areas. It strikes me that what
rumours the Hon. Mover expressed to
have been heard on the streets could be
correct. I would rather be in a gather-
ing of men no matter how harsh, no
matter how severe or hostile they might
be, once they could be trusted. I have
heard in the campaigns, speeches made
by certain Honourable Ministers and
from the remarks of the Mover of this
motion tells me something that It is
more than a deeply laid scheme on foot,
because I heard with my own ears, to
prejudice certain good will of the only
labour leader in the colony, it was being
said by Ministers that because of Mt.
Bentinck strike, sugar has to be raised.
So no wonder they have shipped all the
sugar away forgetting that there is a
quota of sugar by government enact-
ment that Is to be left in this colony. If
no other how they can do it, those are
the remarks and this is honestly piecing

together a rumour and it is right if even
a resolve of a motion is found on rumour,
nevertheless the substantial part that we
must accept whether we want to or not
comprising our Government. When we
hear certain statements being made to
the public it is testimony that no better
persons can make those statements be-
cause they are in-the Executive Council
of our country. Hence it is interesting to
note that if it is that we gaze back to
1952 well as the history book says we
were only then split into two halves. We
were yet still as when you bend a rod it
is not at breaking point but it is still
balancing to break.
This country's Government has done
everything to implement in this country
a cooperative sugar factory, for cane
peasants in this colony. Out of the blue
it died its natural death. After all Mt.
Bentinck estate is a private monopolised
Company and of course we know that
little St. Kitts, little Antigua can pro-
duce 50,000 tons of sugar. We talk here
about industralisation, but as soon as we
rear one crop we kill the other. When
we consider that our people are solely
dependent on Agriculture pursuits, when
we consider that the whole island's
economy is dependent on agricultural
business, we kill one crop as soon as we
raise another, so we are no better off
than we were. It might be if one crop
is worth a half million you kill that one
that is worth half a million and two
cents. That is how we do it here and
that in a Federation. Only coming gen-
erations can feel the pinch of that.
Hence while we talk about industrialisa-
tion here rumours are well founded, be-
cause all the populace has to do is to get
about these electioneering campaign
meetings where ministers of the Govern-
ment are speaking, and you will get the
whole idea of which way the wind is
blowing, because you think that is the
best way to speak to prejudice Joshua,
for the whole- electioneering chapter is
Joshua. So you just have to get around
those meetings and listen to what a
Minister of the Government is saying.
Re is not prudent enough to know that
he might be giving lee way. Of course

it might be happy for us that those lee-
ways are given nevertheless, because
here, by rumour, the Honourable Mem-
ber for St. George heard that sugar
might be short and the price of sugar by
importation of foreign sugar may be
raised. The average person whom we
think we fool so easily just see sugar raise
because Mt. Bentinck has shipped away
all the sugar and flouted the quota of
sugar that should be inthis colony, they
only have to tell the people for vote
catching 'Look you see through the strike,
foreign sugar had to be ordered here.'
Or you have not got to tell them that.
'Sugar raise' that's all, it suits your pur-
pose, because we are fools and that's
that. We go and we investigate the mat-
ter and it is so. The Honourable Mover
I read it last night, I turned it and
twisted it and I said this synchronises
with the type of worthless propaganda
in the electioneering campaigns going
about this country by certain ministers
and therefore then I saw directly which
way the wind is blowing and determined
to show it out in this debate today before
this Honourable .house. Because it is
true to say I have heard what was said
of unions. Some of us wished, although
we are great labour leaders, but labour
leaders without an iota of labour rela-
tions, that we nailed to the cross the only
person who took shame out of your eyes
when you go abroad vaunting up and
down the Caribbean talking about coun-
try and your country is only a vast slave
camp. You have not even unions to pro-
tect anybody. You keep slaves; but I
have saved you from the stigma those of
you who go abroad.
The question now arises, the motion,
true enough 'And whereas importing
sugar at a higher price from Barbados'.
I believe, I still believe, that since that
sugar comes here the duty might be an-
other thing, but I believe that this
country can still get sugar from Barba-
dos to be sold here at a much cheaper
price to St. Vincent market. Because we
know industrialisation of a country
means that you must plant every crop of
this colony to get most out of it, but
when we sat down here and saw with

our own eyes that it was necessary since
this is an agricultural country to follow
up or to carry out our obligations of a
central sugar factory here, where peas-
ants could get a respectable turn over
for his canes, we leave him nailed to the
cross with a monopolistic single industry
owned by private concerns and never
take one step. As soon as somebody hear
it was wrong it died its natural death.
The question of importing sugar at a
higher price. Well that might be so.
We can make it so very easily. Thank
God the public is learning?. They are
getting wiser and wiser. And whereas
the export of sugar has been given pre-
ference over the requirement of local con-
sumption.' That is wrong, and one time,
I remember it nearly happened so two
years ago, where it was over shipped be-
cause a better quota was obtained by Mt.
Bentinck for sugar and if we had the
amount of sugar respectfully enough we
would have got that quota also to suit
it. *A better quota has given and more
incentive to ship sugar from this island
might result in a fact that over shipping
of sugar on the Commonwealth Market
might result in your buying sugar of
course; but when you go don't tell them
just merely to deceive somebody that
sugar is short in the country and price
got to be raised because you remember...
Some go further and speak on the sugar
question: 'We have $100,000 revenue
lost;' counting their chickens before they
are hatched. If you know that revenue,
strikes and lockouts are normal things
in civilised countries. In London 476
ships, '4.000,000 dock workers lie idle
there, until their demands for living were
met; but you did not think of that, you
believe that our country is a slave camp
that you go about propaganding with the
same workers that we leave to come to,
when he sells his labour he is selling it as
you sell your labour, on the market for
the highest price he can fetch for it or a
reasonable price which could be given
for labour. And when you take that as
an electioneering campaign for a mani-
festo, you are actually telling the people
that we are fools. Then no wonder that
the Honourable Member for St. George

heia", this. rumour all over this place
because only God' could imagine, honest
men would be in their beds sleeping,
what is said generally to the public in
those country places, fooling them off
and getting fito their heads things that
do not exist at all. It is a shame to the
Creator, and I say this that I have
studied this motion:
'Whereas the public have been reliably
informed that there would be a shortage
of sugar for approximately four months
of this year....' Now that should not be.
The crop has just been ended, and Mt.
Bentinck store houses are filled with
sugar and it is a law, it is an agreement
at least that a quota of sugar be supplied
to this Government and that must be
settled first, before any shipment is done.
I do not know. From the utterings of
the Ministers, well anything might have
'Whereas we are on the eve of a Fed-
eration and the economy of the island
should be given every measure, of atten-
tion.' That is the same thing the Mover
of this motion is saying. When you tell
us about industrialisation of our country
and you allow as a Trade and Production
at- least to have just a monopolised in-
dustry doing as they like with the sugar
irrespective of the Government quota
that must be supplied here, and we who
had an overall majority of three clear
seats over the elected side, throw out of
our heads all together the fact that a
Central Sugar Factory in a place that
can grow canes as anywhere else in the
world, we did not do that. Those are
the fundamental things that people are
saying nothing is done. Roads, lights
and water are, the inalienable rights of
civilisation. You cannot boast of that.
You have to boast when you put the
economy of the island on such a strong
basis that you have your crops fetching
an amount of money so that we can
liquidate our beggared exchequer to the
Colonial Office. That is the industriali-
sation of a country. Killing one crop
and' raising another whatever your pro-
fit is, that is not industrialization of a
country Mr. Speaker Honourable Mem-

The question of this Federation,
gentlemen we are using this word very
loosely and sometimes very ildy. Let us
look at it a little more seriously. This
is a word and as much coming together
as the F has that same F for Federation
has as much fire because F for fire. The
question: 'Be it resolved that this Gov-
ernment see to it that in the future a
supply of sugar to cover...' Well the
Honourable Member should have come
plainly in that because it was told al-
ready, I have heard this thing here. He
means then that we can do nothing
about it now. We can still do. It was
only 7 weeks ago Mt. Bentinck crop was
closed and the sugar is stored up there.
It is for the Executive Council besides
we have a Trade and Production Minis-
ter. Whether you have facts or not,
since this motion was brought here it is
your duty to see that the quota be left
here, because if you have 15 tons of sugar
to ship tomorrow, well I will get so much
for this but the country must have this.
See the country have it and let the 10
tons go because it is the right of this
colony to protect its own interest under
the agreements made....
HON. R. E. BAYNES: On a point of in-
formation they are keeping all the sugar
here, they are holding all that they have
in the warehouse.
HON. E. T. JOSHUA: So therefore since
I am assured of that, you see I was try-
ing to dig to get to the roots.
dent, Honourable Members, there Govern-
ment cannot accept this motion as it
stands for reasons which I will explain
shortly. On its behalf, I beg'leave there-
fore to move the following, amendment:
"Whereas the sugar industry is of the
greatest importance to consumers,
growers and manufacturers of St. Vin-
Be it resolved that the Government
of St. Vincent use its best endeavours
to ensure that the export quota of St.
Vincent is maintained and at the same
time the supply for local consumers is
maintained and not increased in price."

I hope at a later stage after the Hon-
ourable Mover and Seconder have heard
what I have to say, they will agree to
their motion being amended in this way.
We all know how very important sugar
is to everybody in St. Vincent and I dare
say a great deal will be said about it
today-a great deal more, I would say,
as a lot as already been said. I think
therefore it would be well if I were first
to give a brief account of what has hap-
pened, how it happened or what Govern-
ment proposes to do about it.
In the first place I do not think that
the over-exporting of sugar or the conse-
quent need to import 700 tons later on is,
in itself a very serious affair. Unfortu-
nate, yes, but surely not nearly so un-
fortunate as the events of a year or so
ago which led up to the present situa-
For a long time efforts have been made
to increase St. Vincent's sugar export
quota, and to sell as much as possible of
it at the negotiated price, and temporary
additions to the quota have been agreed
upon from year to year. At the same
time every endeavour has been made to
encourage increased production to reach
these targets.
When a delegation from this Govern-
ment visited London last January one of
its many tasks was to press for the re-
newal of this additional quota for an-
other year, and we believe that the
delegation's efforts helped to achieve
this happy result. A survey was made of
the likely production, and estimates were
prepared of the tonnage of cane from
Mt. Bentinck, the other large Estates and
the peasant growers.
The sugar industry were confident of
its ability to meet this commitment of
exporting 2,000 tons towards which they
had a carry-over of 350 tons from the
previous crop, and after years of struggle
to get in on this market, they were most
anxious to stay in. It was in the inter-
est of St. Vincent as a whole that the
increased quota should be met, as once
you fall out of the export market it is
exceedingly difficult to get in again.

Then a completely new situation arose
-something which had not happened for
so many years that nobody thought it
would ever occur again. The price of
"FREE" sugar i.e., sugar sold on the
open markets of the world exceeded the
price of negotiated price sugar. Natur-
ally the producers did what one would
expect of all prudent businessmen far-
mers and peasants; they made hay
whilst the sun shone without much faith
in it shining for very long. They there-
fore proceeded to sell that portion of
their export quota which was not subject
to the negotiated price first, believing
that it would not stay at that high price
for long, and deferred the selling of nego-
tiated price sugar. One can imagine
what the growers would have said if they
had lost this opportunity as the higher
price of course benefits the cane growers
as well as the sugar factory.
Then they began to fulfill the negoti-
ated price portion of the export quota
and although about this .time there
might have been some doubt about' the
estimates of cane production' it was
vitally necessary to meet this part of the
quota in full. St. Vincent's reputation as
a sugar exporter depended on it and this
no doubt influenced the industry in rely-
ing on their estimates to the extent they
did. The wish is often father to the
thought, but in this case one cannot but
feel that the aim was a worthy one even
if it was only achieved by causing a cer-
tain amount of inconvenience and a little
The estimates of cane production even-
tually proved to be lower even than the
most conservative figures which had
been prepared. In the event there was
an overall shortage of about 13,000 tons
of cane.
The main cause of this, of course, was
the shorter growing season following the
unfortunate events to which I have al-
ready referred. It was known that this
would result in lower production, but it
was not thought that it would be quite so
bad as it actually turned out. Many
farmers who cut in the second half of
the season reaped only a quarter of last
year's tonnage of cane from the same

HON. E. T. JOSHUA: A point of infor-
mation, the Honourable Financial Secre-
tary did not tell us that he was reading
from a document or that he was quoting
from a document. I thought he was de-
bating the motion. You read from
documents .....
HON. PRESIDENT: I am not quite clear
what point the Honourable Member is
HON. E. T. JOSHUA:- My question is
that whether the Honourable Financial
Secretary is reading or debating; we
should knoW.
pardon. I am quoting from some notes
and figures; but I will be as brief as I
possibly can.
HON. PRESIDENT: The Honourable
Member is speaking from notes on the
debate. If he is not he would say when
he is quoting.
is that insufficient sugar has been re-
tained to meet local requirements for the
remainder of the year and it has been
necessary for the producers to buy 700
tons from Barbados, our near neighbour
and fellow member of the federation of
the British West Indies who, incidentally,
did not require this sale to bolster her
economy. It represents less than the
1/1000 part of the crop. She could have
sold this sugar elsewhere without the
slightest difficulty and quite possibly at
a higher price than St. Vincent had to
pay for it as the price is still high and
may go higher. Surely to refer to this
purchase as bolstering Barbados' econo-
my is a little exaggerated.
Here I should mention that most, if not
all, the West Indian Islands producing
sugar did exactly what the St. Vincent
producers did, but they were more fortu-
nate in that the estimates of production
came up to expectations. A year or so
ago I believe Trinidad exported too much
sugar and then had to import later on
so it will be seen that what has happen-
ed here this year has also happened

The Honourable Member for St. George
has quite rightly expressed concern lest
this unfortunate affair should cause an
increase in price to the consumer. It
is therefore proposed to waive the export
duty and cess on that amount of sugar
which was exported and which has later
to be made good by imports from Barba-
dos. It is also proposed to waive import
duty on sugar which will be brought in to
make up local requirements. In so far
as Government revenue and the sugar
cess funds are concerned these proposals
will have the effect of restoring the posi-
tion to what it would have been if the
'excessive exports had not been made.
That is, Government will collect neither
more nor less than what it would have
got if sufficient sugar had been retained
to meet internal requirements. The
price to the consumers will also be un-
affected by what has happened.
But not so the producers as despite
Government's intention not to cash in,
so to speak by collecting the additional
duties on the excessive exports there will
still be a loss on the transactions on the
whole. This is because the Barbados
sugar is going to cost more than was
obtained for the sugar exported earlier
in the year.
The Industry may well consider this
on balance to have been worth while as
they will have retained their still rather
precarious foothold in the export mar-
kets and hang on to the negotiated price
quotas which are of such vital import-
ance to our export industry. Altogether
the whole affair may be described as a
perfect example of how nature exacts
her toll. The cost of disputes in other
industries can be made up by working
double shifts when work is resumed, but
nature is not so lenient. The seasons
wait for no man and to get the best re-
sults sugar must be planted at the proper
With regard to the resolution contain-
ed in the motion, adequate means of
control over exports already exist, but
there were reasonable grounds for be-
lieving that there would be enough to
meet local requirements when issuing the
exports licences earlier in the year.

Government could of course, have with-
held all exports until the local quota had
been put aside, but supposing this had
been done and there had been 700 tons
of FREE sugar available for export and
the price had fallen again, Government
would then of course have been blamed
for not allowing the industry to reap the
full benefit of the earlier high prices.
That could happen if the motion goes
forward as it stands and in all the cir-
cumstances I hope the Honourable Mem-
ber for St. George and the Honourable
Member for North Windward will agree
to the motion being amended as pro-
posed by me earlier.
HON. J. A. BAYNES: I will accept this
Mr. PRESIDENT: Does the Honourable
Eeconder accept this amendment.
HoN. PRESIDENT: The House may pro-
ceed to debate the motion.
H -N. H. F. YOUNG: Mr. President,
L:onourable Members, today we'have lis-
tened and we have seen how a big politi-
cal game is going on. My Honourable
friend from North Windward got up and
supported a motion because it is direct-
ly or indirectly connected with him.
Now do not get me wrong sir. I am not
going to say that he is going to cause
ougar to raise but here he got up and
second a motion and he started to go on
before it was attacked. There is such
a thing as sucrose contents. There is
such a thing as when you do not plant
in the spring or when you reap out of
ccason then the next crop :must fail, and
from a practical agricultural point that
is what I want to prove and that is my
mission standing here.
The strike that took place at North
Windward, created the year after, the
shortage of sugar. The reason for it is
that the cane stayed longer to cut and
by staying longer to cut the sucrose con-
tents was lost, the young canes could not
have grown at the right time because
naturally the canes standing would have
to lose the juice as the local people would
say in order to start bringing forth new

leaves. Therefore when Mt. Bentinck
averaged that on the canes standing,
you would have so many tons of sugar,
you had canes standing in the field but
which had lost their sucrose contents.
And any agriculturist would know that.
If you do not reap your arrowroot-and
my friend from South Windward would
know that-before the spring comes the
same arrowroot is going to. spring new
leaves, therefore it is the starch from
that same root that is bringing forward
leaves. Is not that so my honourable
The next point is that he touched on
another sugar factory. It is nice. I
can remember we backed it up and as the
same honourable gentleman said, there
were a lot of lands that can grow nothing
but sugar canes. The then Administra-
tor sent to Barbados and arranged to
get a sugar factory to put down in that
area somewhere above Calliaqua, but
gentlemen what is the international
situation? We could not do it because
the quota of sugar that was given to
St. Vincent was already exceeded. The
quota of sugar on the entire market was
so many tons for St. Vinctnt, so many
tons for Barbados, and so on and we
could not produce when we did not have
a market to ship. Therefore that was
beyond us because of international
To quote, I want to tell the Honourable
gentleman that this little island apart
from any other island in the caribbean
because I have travelled, is blessed and
is more agriculturally advanced than
other small islands and T. will prove that
to you. St. Kitts is sugar almost alone,
Barbados is sugar 99.9%, St. Vincent is
sugar, arrowroot, cotton, sweet potatoes,
yams, goats, chickens, bananas, copra
and even cattle we exoprted to Domi-
nica. There is not another island
that has so much mixed agriculture as
this little island of ours. Therefore if
the one crop in Barbados failed and
sugar should go off the market the whole
economy of Barbados has gone to
pieces. When I talk, this, I am talking
to you with facts because the economic
development is what we rely on now for

Federation. A team of exports is going
to be sent here to help us to produce
mere and help us to market our crops.
That is what we have to do. By all
means have Trade unions, by all means
get price for labour, by all means advo-
cate around the table reasonably and
see that labourers get work to do, but do
not destroy the things that are going
to give the labourers bread. What has
been done up there? Eight solid weeks
of strike, hundreds of thousands of
dollars lost, no income tax from it, -no
raise of pay except what Executive Coun-
cil decide on with the Malone Report.
But one man benefitted. Question mark!
Seventy five by eighty cottage! A hun-
dred and odd people suffered and a loss
of sugar. What are you going to come
here and say now because of that?
Question mark No. 1. And the factory
Mr. President is still going on. That
factory means a lot. When for eight
weeks those people stood up there in the
strike, by all means have your strike, but
what was offered to them? Did the
strike bring them any increased benefits
or wages? The strike benefitted one
man and his family who is union boss,
President, Secretary, Treasury and every-
thing. No executive body. Let me tell
you Mr. President I have travelled and
unions are organised with executive
organizations with Secretary, President,
and officers for different branches, and
they- have once per year executive meet-
ings. In this particular union, one man
is Boss, Secretary, President and time
will come when we will ask this Govern-
ment to investigate and it will have to
happen because after all the people Mr.
President, for your information, unions
today W.F.T.U. or the union that is affi-
liated behind the Iron Curtain because
we happen to know Mr. President that
there some unions that are being used in
the West Indies purely to inculcate Com-
munism in these parts and now that we
are going to enter Federation, the Bri-
tiFh Commonwealth of Nations have no
use for Colmmunists. I have seen in the
"Jamaica Tim.:-" that the Honourable
gentleman is connected with Ferdinand
Smith the ChieZ Communist in Jamaica,
and I can show this House that paper

and I quota it. Mr. President those are
the facts and it is gone beyond doubt
that the Communists cashed in when
you burn or when you destroy ......
HON. E. T. JOSHUA: A point of order,
Mr. President, this Member cannot be
allowed to make sweeping statements in
this House without proof. He made a
statement without proof. Where is his
proof? Slanderous statements without
Mr. PRESIDENT: Which statements are
you objecting to?
HON. E. T. JOSHUA: Now I am object-
ing to a statement that he has a paper
to show that I am connected to a Com-
munist. What does he know about who
is communist or who is not? He is a
HoN. H. F. YOUNG: Mr. President I am
quoting from the "Jamaica Times" I am
not saying that. While I was in Jamai-
ca, the "Jamaica Times" published at the
time of the Freedom of Movement.......
Would you please ask him to allow me
to speak when he is sitting? Do not in-
terfere please. The "Jamiaca Times" had
the picture bf Ferdinand Smith in it and
this is what they said: that Communists
are going to form the next Federal Oppo-
sition Party and that they are in touch
with such and such parties in the differ-
ent islands and the P.P.P. of St. -Vincent.
Let me go on now with this motion. I
am telling you what I have read and
what I have seen; and I want to say sir
that in these West Indian territories the
unions are used as a medium especially
some unions to spread communism, the
anti-British way of life. Sticks cannot
fight guns. And they cash in heavily
when they burn schools, when you des-
troy the economy because that is their
teaching, so that when they get the peo-
ple hungry, then they sell the people and
say well the British people are starving.
They have pictures they snapped with
cameras and send them abroad so they
destroy the people and cash in from the
masters they serve.
Mr. President, I have the privilege of
,representing this island and I met

men from all over .the British West Indies
who have to do with Federation. f met
men who are opposing Federation
and I know a thing or two than most of
the men sitting here because as the
representative of this island I have sat
in with them, and worked hard for this
country; therefore the Honourable Mem-
ber for North Windward cannot fool me
any more and I am prepared for the love
of my country, I will preach throughout
the length and breadth of this place to
save us from Communism. I am not
guessing any more. Five dreary long
years we all came around this Table.
Some of us hungry some of us had
nothing, with a small pittance and you
know what Councillors have to meet.
let us ask ourselves-I personally took
the Honourable Member and his belong-
ings to Cane Garden. My Honourable
Friend from St. George, Mr. President
went to Georgetown and sold that same
gentleman to the people.......
HON. E. T. JOSHUA: A point of order,
Mr. Speaker, what is the motion before
this House? The point of order is that
the Honourable Member is off the motion.
He is not debating the motion.
Mr. PRESIDENT: The Honourable Mem-
ber has the floor.
HON. H. F. YOUNG: The destruction of
the crop of North Windward being a
purely agricultural country as my hon-
ourable friend said, we have no other
industry, we have no gold, and as he
rightly knows as a former teacher, our
island is becoming over-populated. Even
Government all the time to blame. It is
the same piece of land and the same dig-
ging every day into it that is keeping
our doctors and nurses and medicine
going. It is the same destruction of
crops that I passed the North Windward
sometime ago and saw canes in the Dry
River. The peasants who borrowed the
money from the banks nearly lost their
properties; and after the strike they got
no wage increase. What they got was
eight weeks of toil, police 'and guns were
behind them. Some got in trouble and
Mr. President the destruction of that
Mt. Bentinck crop right now, luckily as

humanitarians, we have sat in the Ex-
ecutive Council and decided to waive
duty, or poor people would have had to
be paying more for sugar. That hap-
pened because cane that was supposed to
be cut in June, was cut in August, and
Mr. President for the Honourable Mem-
ber's knowledge as a Council you have
not got to be a B.A. or a teacher, it needs
all men of all the walks of life. If those
canes were cut earlier we would have got
more sugar, and in San Domingo where
there are certain times when they cannot
get labour it is better for them to leave
the cane to spring back, because the cost
of production would remain the same as
the sucrose contents of the cane would
be less. Therefore Mr. President, I want
to-prove to this Honourable Member that
this purely agricultural country that by
all means have his union, by all means
see to it that they get a better priee, and
then ask for a better price for the labour-
er; but for God sake do not destroy the
same thing and then get up all over the
market, all over the country and preach
that everybody is against the people and
when you check on your strike, when
you check back where is this God with
his hands so clean, this honest man and
everybody else is dishonest. Then ask
yourself the question, a palace 75'.x 80'
either from Communist money or labour-
. HON. G. H. CHARLES: Mr. President
Honourable Members, I have heard so
much about this motion that I wont'say
much; but I just would like to state that
at this grave moment in St. Vincent I
was rather surprised when I heard the
remarks made on this Government, even
before an explanation could have been
given by the Honourable Financial Secre-
tary. Now, as the representative of Cen-
tral Windward, I happen to know some
of what caused the present sugar crisis.
I do not think that any one of the
gentlemen around this Table can stifle
their conscience to say that they do not
know what caused this shortage. I can
remember too well that during the strike
I went around the area and I saw canes
that should have been cut, about 2
months at least before the time, were

still standing there. Rats were destroy-
ing them and they started springing.
Well, the position is this, a certain peas-
ant in my area went down on his knees
to the Honourable Member for North
Windward and told him that he had
just credited some land, and asked him
to help the poor peasants, even if he
would not allow the big estates who could
bear it. He said "So help me God not a
damn screw, I turn every screw tight."
That poor man went away with tears in
.his eyes.
My Hon. Friend always call me a
pseudo labour leader, but this is the big
point. Some of us who know something
about unionism as the Member for South
Leeward said, I can remember during
those dark days of the strike and I also
happen to know that the labour leader
who was responsible for that strike col-
lected $10 from every member in that
strike area by telling them that four
years back pay was coming to them, and
they will have to pay that $10 to be a
full member. I am certain of that.
WVhat is the position now? Ten dollars
from every member with the promise
that 4 years back pay was coming to
them le-cause of this destruction. Look
aat ht ia going to happen. I do not
know if ny HIoncurable colleagues is
taking this thing seriously. Inspite of
v-hat the Financial Secretary said, the
fact is this that Government will have
Lo subsidise or put some kind cC money
to hold down the price of imported sugar.
I am sure of that.
HoN. L. C. LATHAM: Mr. President, a
i)int of ccrrecticn, are we on the ad-
journment? Are we debating the ad-
j urnment?
Mr. PRESIDENT: We are debating the
Section moved by the Honourable Mem-
:er for St. George?
HoN. L. C. LATHAM: I thought we were
debating the adjournment.
h. PRESIDENT: The Honourable Mem-
ter must have been asleep.
HON. L. C, LATHiM: I am hearing
about the cane crop and the cane strike
which took place two to three years ago
and we are debating a motion here.

HON. G. H. C'HARLES: Mr. Chairman, I
would Bike to ask the Honourable Member
what was my last word. I was saying
that I am sure that this Government
will have to subsidise the importation of
sugar to meet this present crisis so that
the poor people would not have to pay
more for sugar. That was my statement.
I do not think that was the adjournment
because the motion is about sugar. Let
us face facts. I know people who really
received up to 20-25 tons from an acre,
some of them only got 9 tons from the
same acre and because of this over
$100,000 that .should have gone to the
Treasury was lost according to what i
was told by certain gentlemen. I am
quite satisfie:i that if it was not for the
good administration of this Government,
those people for whom you say you are
fighting would have had to turn back
and pay more, which I am certain sure
they could not do. The fact is this, as
the Honourable Member to the right
said-I am not against any union strik-
ing whether it might be on cane or what
-but the fact is that it is the duty of
this Government to see that properly
run trade unions function in this colony,
because I kno:.v that the same union that
caused us to be in this debate about
sugar, has two men who cannot read or
write as the trustees. You only have to
say 'put your X' and they make a cross.
That is true.
Mr. Chairman, Honourable Members,
those of us who travel around this coun-
try from Rabaca to Dry River, even just
at Sans Souci Estate, will see the amount
of dry canes, and know that we have to
import sugar from Barbados. It does not
matter what amount may be, that money
should have remained here so that poor
people in the hospital could have got
some medicine. Today we have to send
that money out, when in truth and in
fact we have the amuont of land, but
only have dry canes which are absoultely
of no use to this country. It is a shame.
I do not think, I am going any further
on this motion, but I would like to state
that we must be honest to ourselves first
before we can be honest to other people.
I hope the Minister will soon give us

some information on the matter and I
am saying that if the strike was spon-
sored by a well run trade union that we
could all see with our -own eyes, you
would never have heard from the mouths
of these Honourable Members the things
they have said. Being one who knows
something about Trade unionism, it was
just a political strike for men to gain
their own selfish ends, which caused us
to have to be in this financial embarrass-
ment, to have to take money from our
purse to get sugar from a neighboring
island. It is a sad state of affairs and
this morning I heard my honourable
friend say that the same people who go
abroad and come back and buy a piece
of land are still labourers, and just a
few days ago he said that every man
who owns a yard of fand, he is going to
walk stick on them. These are facts. I
:sometimes hear some statements around
this table I really do not know; but I am
saying it is going to be a serious thing
because when you have men going out
and misleading people to bring financial
embarrassment to the people and their
Government, it is a very serious position
and as today is the last meeting in this
Honourable House, I do not know but
that in our new government there might
be further calamity because there will be
a great mixture of estate owners and so
on. I do not know how the table will
turn. I just do not know what will hap-
pen. Mr. President Honourable Mem-
bers, I leave the balance to my honour-
able colleagues.
HON. A. B. DOSSANTOS: Mr. President,
Honourable Members, the export of sugar
by the Mt. Bentinck Estates .was all done
in good faith. I know that Mt. BenMtnck
Estates usually get a return from the
big estate owners of the cane that they
have on their estates. A man is sent
around to allocate and assess the canes
that the peasants have on their holdings.
I remember that I sent in my return the
year before the strike and I sent in 833
tons. On the same acreage for the next
year I delivered 354 tons; so Mt. Bentinck
Estates was basing their returns purely
on figures that they got from us. Our
canes did look as if they had canes but

when you did reap them they had
nothing at all in them. So it is no fault
at all of Mt. Bentinck Estates'. It was
all done in good faith. That is all I have
to say.
HON. J. A. BAYNES: Mr. President,
Honourable Members, I listened atten-
tively to the outline given by the Hon-
ourable Financial Secretary and I must
admit that that outline gave me quite a
lot of information which ordinarily I
would not have known in this council. I
must endorse that what happened at Mt.
Bentinck Estates I am not blaming Mt.
Bentinck Estates; but I feel that the
knowledge which this government had
could be used to allay the fears of busi-
nessmen and Members of the Opposition,
about sugar in this island, because while
the outline given is very satisfying one I
am almost sure that sugar will eventu-
ally have to be subsidized. That 700 tons
from Barbados will need to be subsidized.
I agree that the quota of sugar must be
maintained but if what actually came out
here this afternoon is the case, I feel
that this definition given by Ministers
and the Financial Secretary is not some-
thing that should be with-held by Gov-
ernment because of the fact that when
these things are got by rumour, I am
asked from the countryside by persons
who are interested in sugar-because
that is what gave me the first knowledge
of what is happening. A man with a
grocery store asked me to buy 20 bags of
sugar for him because there was going
to be a shortage. When I enquired I
discovered that what he told me was
quite true. I hope that in future the
public would be given more light than
they have presently so that the fears of
persons who purchase sugar will be pre-
HON. R. E. BAYNEs: Honourable Presi-
dent, Honourable Members, the condi-
tion which now exist is such that Gov-
ernment really was not apprised of what
was taking place until such time as the
Mt. Bentinck Estates came to the end of
their crop.......
HON. S. E. SLATER: On a point of
explanation Mr. President, I always

thought that when the Mover replied
that the motion was closed.
Mr. PRESIDENT: If the Honourable
Member will refer to the Rule 27 (12) b.
of the Legislative Council Rules he will
see that if there has been any criticism
of Government in the course of a motion,
it is open to an Official Member or a
Minister to close the debate. Rule 27
subsection (12) (b).
HON. R. E. BA NES: Because of that,
Government was not in any position to
make any pronouncement of what took
place at Mt. Bentinck; but to investigate
and get from the Mt. Bentinck Estates
at first hand the facts as we have them
and have placed them before you today.
Now to enlighten you a little more on
what the Financial Secretary has said
v.ith regard to the question of negotiat-
ing and on the World Open Quota, as you
would realise that several years ago St.
Vincent was a foremost exporter of
sugar. As a matter of fact export of
sugar reached as high as 20,000 tons
several years ago. Today Mt. Bentinck
is not a foremost exporter of sugar, but
we are manufacturing sufficient sugar
to meet our local consumption and at the
same time to export at least 2,000 tons.
With certain improvements which have
been put in at the Mt. Bentinck Factory,
it was anticipated that the rate of re-
covery of sugar from canes which in St.
Vincent 'is very low, would have been
greatly increased and because of that
the Mt. Bentinck Estates thought that
if there was an increase in the recovery
of sugar it would. have been necessary
for them to have an increased quota to
meet that increased production. Now
we went to UK. and discussed the matter
there, it was a matter over which we
had the biggest fight and so we felt that
if St. Vincent was to get an increase in
sugar it would be beneficial also to pro-
ducers or the cane farmers who have
always complained that the price of
sugar was not satisfactory to them.
Now the conditions under which sugar
is sild from St. Vincent is this: Be-
tween 1949 and 1951 there has been a
West Indian sugar Agreement. All the

sugar was at one time purchased by
the Ministry of Food in the U.K. and the
price set out for the quota which was
exported by each of the participating
territories of the B.W.I. and other coun-
tries of the Commonwealth. Now in that
sugar price there is a sum included to
the excess of $13.20 per ton which is
being used in.all the territories (1) for
rehabilitation of the sugar factory, (2)
for price stabilisation and (3) for labor
welfare. Now the British Government
have taken into consideration the fact
that if labour must be a part of this in-
dustry they too should be given some kind
of benefit in whatever price they have
gained and so this extra $13.20 was put
in but it was not to be given directly to
the Mt. Bentinck Estates or the manu-
facturers, but a portion as set out and
agreed to by the Secretary of State. Now
one, portion of that sum would be used
for rehabilitation of the factory, another
portion for price stabilisation and an-
other portion for labour welfare. That
labour welfare sum is used in the differ-
ent areas for improving housing condi-
tions and social conditi6nns to the sugar
workers. Therefore it means that if we
do not export our quota the labourers
who benefitted from the Labour Welfare
Fund, would not have any money to im-
prove their housing conditions and so it
is -just as important to St. Vincent to
export sugar as to meet their local con-
As the Honourable Financial Secretary
told you, when the World Market Price
showed a tendency to rise the manufac-
turers here thought 'well here is an
opportunity to cash in on the World
Market Price' because formerly the
W.M.P. went as low as 25 per ton as
compared with the negotiated price of
41 per ton, therefore when they shall
have left their negotiated quota which
in St. Vincent is 1050 tons as against
950 tons on the open market, when
they should have sold at 41 they
left to get that 25 which is less than
the cost of production; but there was a
time when the W.M.P. went as high as
$7.80 U.S. per hundred lbs. f.o.b. which
really relates itself here to over 60 to 70,

and so people thought that if we are to
get the best price for sugar we should
take advantage of this price for the time
being and Mt. Bentinck went out and ex-
ported their quota on the open market.
In other words, the over all quota, not
the negotiated quota because of the fact
that the price on the negotiated quota
was fixed.
There is no doubt about what has been
said here that the strike of last year was
really responsible for the short fall on
sugar because I have before me certain
figures and estimated figures on produc-
tion of canes. In 1954 the estimated
production by the Mt. Bentinck estates
themselves was 11,711 tons, other estates
11,270 tons and peasants 19,987 tons,
making a total of 42,977 tons. In 1956
the estimated quota was 11,806 tons by
Mt. Bentinck Estates, 12,457 tons by the
other estates and 21,029 tons by the
peasants. In 1956 estimates on the Mt.
Eentinck Estates crop dropped to 10,715,
other estates 12,365 but the peasants
went up to 24,713 tons. In 1957 they
estimated that the peasant production
would be about 20,000 to 22,000 tons; but
all that the peasants produced was 13,000
this year. In other words the short fall
of 13,003 tons has shown that peasants
aloie suffered a shortage of 9,526 tons
of cane. Now when you take the over
all picture of 13,682 tons of canes we
sometimes ask ourselves what does that
represent, but in terms of . s. d. we see
that the total value for those canes lost
t- the producers" of sugar is $150,000.
Then the loss to the peasants alone is
$110,000, and the loss to the same poor
la:ourers which most of these labour
leaders claim to represent, on the canes
alone is $50,000. The loss to labour on
sugar is $35,000. Now those are facts
calculated on the basis of the total loss
of sugar and no fellow can come and tell
me and tell the public 'I like the poor
man,' and he is suffering the poor man to
lose $85,000 in labour.
But let us go further than that. You
mentioned a while ago that the labourer
is now for 7 weeks unemployed; but
what is the cause for that? The reason
is clear, there is no sugar to be manu-

factured and therefore there is the poor
man 7 weeks sitting in is house without
employment, as a result of some crazy
strike which took place in the Mt. Ben-
tinck area, by persons who think only in
terms of themselves. It is time that
people in St. Vincent realise that some of
you that go out and tell people that you
are for labour, you are a deadly enemy
to labour, because if you really were seri-
ous you would first of all think, here is
labour making a loss of over $85,000 in an.
industry in which he himself is a part
by virtue of the sugar agreement made
between these islands and the Secretary
of State.
Let us go further. The fact that the
price of the World Market Sugar has
increased out of proportion to the Nego-
tiated Price, it is obvious that Mt. Ben-
tinck Estates must buy sugar at a
reasonably high price and I have als,:
worked out what the 700 tons of sugar
would cost and the price at which it
must be sold. If the St. Vincent Govern-
ment did not step in to negotiate with
the Mt. Bentinck Estates antl to point out
to them that at no cost must sugar be
increased to the market, the same man
you pretend to represent would have been
paying 4 more per lb. for sugar right in
St. Vincent. The price c.i.f. for sugar
bought from Barbados is 51 per ton.
The landing charge is 1. 10. per ton.
The poterage, bank commission and de-
livery, etc. is $874.30 and the duty at 50
cents per hundred lbs worked at 7,843.
That has nothing to do with the profit
added by the merchants before that
sugar is sold. Roughly 12 cents per lb.
is the price poor man would have been
called upon to pay just because of a sugar
shortage which was contributed by one
individual who really has gone out to
turn the economy of this island up side
down. Now every government has the
right to take care of its unemployed
persons and to see that the cost of living
to the masses is being kept as low as
possible; but when you claim to be a
labour leader and you get out to fool
these people and to do everything possi-
ble to upset their livelihood, it is time
that this Government start to take

action and to let the public know that
this man who claim to be a leader is
their deadly enemy. Even the man in
the market would realise that you were
contributing to the cost of sugar.
The reduction in the production of
canes to the other estates was 20% and
the reduction to the Mt. Bentinck estates
was 91/2% or 1,156 tons. Now the total
production of canes for 1957 is only
35,000 tons compared with the year of the
strike when we saw tons and tons of
canes in the Rabaca River as though
they were carted there to be burnt,
35,000 tons as compared with 47,000 tons
last year. Fortunately for St. Vincent
that we had a carry over of 350 tons of
sugar which prevented us from importing
the short fall of 1,370 tons of sugar but
have to import instead, 700 tons. Now
I would like to say that this Government
has done everything possible and will do
everything possible if even they have
to subsidise it to see that the price of
sugar to the masses, the very masses you
claim to love so much, is not increased.
They will be able to get their sugar at
the same price; but let be known to
them when you go out on the rostrum
that if it w-as not for the St. Vincent
Government the cost of sugar to them
would have been increased.
Mr. PRESIDENT: Honourable Members,
there is a motion before the House. It
is the motion which was moved in the
form of an amendment by the Honour-
able Financial Secretary and accepted
by the Mover and Seconder. I will re-
fresh the House's memory by reading it
Whereas the sugar industry is of the
greatest importance to consumers,
growers and manufacturers of St. Vin-
Be it resolved that the Government
of St. Vincent use its best endeavours
to ensure that the export quota of St.
Vincent is maintained and that at the
same time the supply for the local con-
sumer is maintained and not increas-
ed in price.
The motion was carried unanimously.



The Slum Clearance and Housing
(Amendment) Bill.
The Police (Amendment) Bill.
dent, Honourable Members, I beg to move
the Second Reading of a bill for an ordi-
nance further to amend the Police Ordi-
nance 1947.
second the motion.
Question put and agreed.
Bill read a second time.
Council moved into Committee.
Council resumed.
Bill reported with one amendment and
reportt adopted.
Bill read a third time by title and
The Public Assistance Bill.
HON. G. H. CHARLES: Mr. President,
Honourable Members, I beg to move that
a bill for an ordinance to repeal and
replace the Public Assistance Ordinance
of 1950 be read a second time..
second the motion.
Question put and -agreed.
Bill read a second time.
Council moved into Committee.
Council resumed.
Bill reported without amendment and
report adopted.
Bill read a third time by title and

HoN. I. F. YOUNG: Mr. President,
Honourable Members, I rise here this
evening to bring something to this Hon-
ourable House and it is the question of
the Banana Industry in St. Vincent. It

has been brought to my notice as a
grower of bananas, and not only as a
grower but as a delegate of the Layou
branch, also as the representative of a
large area that is growing bananas, that
several people are dissatisfied with the
recent decision of the Banana Board to
take a penny from them or 25% down
payment in order to get fertilizer. The
Government has assisted the banana in-
dustry to increase the economy of this
country. A few of us have benefitted in
the early stages from getting plants and
fertilizer. To me whilst not one half
of the population have got the benefit, I
think it is a vicious step to interfere with
the production and also to interfere with
other poor people who want to plant new,
to introduce such a new order. I do
believe that we must pay for fertilizer
but I believe that the Banana Associa-
tion must go all out to assist these new
planters or even by approaching gov-
ernment again because fertilizer in the
form of a subsidy, means so much to the
economy of the country, not only that,
but we will pay back and as the produc-
tion increases more stems are shipped.
That is not all. The Secretary of the
Banana Association has-this is the big
crux of the matter-has identified him-
self with a political organisation and it
is a serious statement I am going to
make and I can prove it with facts. He
is using his office to go against other
people who are connected with other
political organizations, since he is a
member and the public relations officer
cf the St. Vincent Labour Party.
Mr. PRESIDENT: I am sorry to inter-
rupt the Honourable Member, but just
for a moment. I understand that he is
hot speaking as a member of the Govern-
ment but in his position as an independ-
ent Member of this House?
HON. H. F. YOUNG: I am speaking as
the representative of South Leeward. I
will go on to say that he has identified
himself with a Party. I feel that as
Secretary of such an organisation he
should be non-partial and no politics
should be played in so vital an industry
in the economy of this country. Fertili-

ser is being given to people because of
whims and fancies connected with this
particular individual and refused to
others. The Secretary of the St. Vincent
Arrowroot Association, a Statutory Body,
has not done such a thing in all his
time he is working and we all know as
human nature would have it, that once a
man in such an organisation, payed by
the growers, of the growers and for the
growers, has tied up himself in politics,
then there is political danger. The
association is definitely going to pieces,
and become purely political thus causing
the incentive and effort which the Colo-
nial Office and even the President have
made, to go to pieces.
Gentlemen, it means a lot to the aver-
age poor man to plant bananas because
whereas cotton and arrowroot call for a
loan from the bank, he and his and
others can bore a hole in his little ravine
and his hillside and slopes and plant
those bananas; and I believe that this
Government should see to the interest of
this industry to take politics completely
out of the Banana Association. It is no
gainsaying that jobs are being provided
for people to canvass for that Associa-
tion. They are using their cess. Just
recently the Banana Association gave
the Cricket Association $100 to go to St.
Lucia. From where did they get the
authority? We love cricket and by all
means I will sponsor and put money out
of my pocket, but has that association
the right to take our funds that they are
entrusted with and do that because the
St. Vincent Banana Association and the
Labour Party are the same party, and
the President of the Cricket Association
is the legal adviser of the Banana Asso-
ciation. And the Secretary of the
Banana Association is the Public Rela-
tions Officer of that Party of which the
President is also a member. Some of the
directors are also members of the same
Labour Party, namely Joachim, etc. Are
we going to allow the economy of our
country that means so much to our tax
payers, to be left in the hands of a few
politicians trying to use that same money
for their own selfish ends.

Gentlemen I am a grower of bananas.
I have the highest respect for the Presi-
dent of the House. I am warning him
that his secretary is interfering in poli-
tics, and they are creating work. Two
girls in my area told me that they were
hired purely by the banana people to
canvass. One chap who was a staunch
supporter of mine was given 10 sacks of
fertilizer to change his mind. Is that
right in the sight of God in a crop that
means so much to our country? Those
are the facts and I think there is no
other way that I should air this and if
it reaches to that point, I do not want
to do it because we know our people, we
would have to preach banana when it
interferes with our economy. We can-
not have our secretary holding a few
creating jobs for a few of the same peo-
pie who grow it, to the detriment of the
others. It is happening till it smells.
The whole thing smell so bad that they
are creating employment. People are
fired, while others are given jobs. Just
recently one of the men that they are
using to teach people to grow bananas
was transferred and sent to the Barrou-
allie area purely to help Joachim cam-
paign when he was somewhere else. He
was hired. He used to be a foot man on
Joachim's truck. Joachim who is a
member of the Banana Board got him
the job and he became a henchman and
now is transferred back from there using
banana and politics together.
I attack this Banana Association early
when they had it as a limited liability
company. It means so much to the peo-
ple. We want them to grow bananas,
but there is too much politics in it. Now
that the Government is going to form a
marketing board I would advocate, as
soon as the Marketing Board comes and
change all these big shot associations
and let it be marketed by the Marketing
Board, for and on behalf of the people
and save a lot of expense that is going
to offices and staff; and the quicker you
take politics out of the Banana Associa-
tion the quicker you will help this island
if you are Minister of Production.
HON. E. T. JOSHUA: It is the same
thing that happened in the Budget

Session. These fellows will gamble with
the destiny of this Honourable House. I
do not know if you have a parliamentary
holiday, but I remember the Speaker in
the House of Commons once in a certain
issue of Cabinet Ministers, had to say
"Order, order, order!" I do not know if
we have a holiday, but it is fantastic to
understand how we arq going to Weather
the cape of a political federation with
this type of parliamentary, ministerial
and governmental behaviour. It is true
that the voice of the people may be the
voice of God, when I see that this country
hold the population of 72,000 people up
to ridicule, an automaton, lifeless ma-
chinery that has no spring balance, you
hope to set them up with lying wilful
wicked propaganda even in the Council
Chamber with the hope of achieving
their ends; but fate and destiny, God of
the universe may intervene.
I was surprised to hear and not so
much surprised to hear the Member for
Kingstown using certain remarks to me
about fooling people. The Member for
Kingstown is a born sole-anti-labourite.
He is talking of labour, a born anti-
labourer and labourite. He never work-
ed and so he does not seem to know
what it is that labourers in an island like
this must have a leader. The hate of
Joshua Mr. Minister cannot dispel the
fact that you look like a slave master
abroad parading up and down the Carib-
bean believing that you are a Minister.
You are nothing else but a slave master
of your country because in your own
country you forbade the functioning of
trade unions you and your other col-
leagues, conspirators in one place.
Mr. PRESIDENT: I must ask the Hon-
ourable Member to address the Chair.
HON. E. T. JoSHUA: Mr. President with
all due respects you know I did not mean
to ignore the Chair; but I am giving
back this Minister the dose of his own
medicine. His own gum of aloes, his own
bitter pills, anti-labourite he is. With-
out a sigh or a groan he comes here pre-
tending at the prorogation of this hon-
ourable House to be a labourite. A ma-
jority of you crept in here under the

wolf garb covered.with the fleece of a
lamb pretending to be labourites. In
the book of Mr. Ebenezer Duncan, the
History of this island, he regarded, you
as being labourites come in here, but you
talk, how can a people make a little brick
house, get them mad, how can they con-
struct a country. Small-minded men,
men who should be behind cows, swine,
they come in here pretending to be
throwing words to hurt someone. You
hurt whom? When the words are re-
corded you could preach Paul now Mr.
Minister and argue Saul......
Mr. PRESIDENT: I must remind the
Honourable Member and he knows right
enough he can glare at Members on the
other side of the house, he can wave his
fingers at them, but he must address his
remarks to me and refer to the other
members in the third person, which he
can do very well.
HON. E. T. JOSHUA: Yes, so anxious I
was to give him back a prorogating dose
of his own bitter, cruel pill, that he sits
there grinning like a roast dog instead
of paying strict attention to his scolding
and reprimand, thinking that he is going
to sit here for ever in this Honourable
Mr. President one of the birds has
flown. I cannot find words adequate to
express these nit wits of politics in this
House, and at the end of this meeting I
pray the. God of the universe that by
some means or other such cruel incon-
siderate, hard-hearted, arrogant, super-
cilious, men should go hence from any-
thing like an honourable house and be
no more. Poor votes of the labourers.
In Bequia that nit wit Minister poor
McIntosh said, stood up here and spoke:
'Move you from this Honourable House
until you learn to behave yourself,' like
some American actor in the southern
states of Alabama, or Georgia. Upstart-
ed little negro he assents here and dis-
respects most grossly his political bene-
factor and godfather. But a way out
will be found, keep cool.
Well as far as our Minister for Social
Services was concerned I would not

waste words on him. It is a waste of
time. The world knows he came here
with a union and before you could say
'Miss Janie fire,' he set the workers into
slavory. He must be envious that a
union at all could thrive in this island.
The remarks that were used here by a
clique of the old brigade men who have
done everything to sabotage the existence
and running of this country and because
they thought they were clever enough,
they did not respect public opinion. They
nailed to the cross, the benefactor that
keep you looking like parliamentarians,
Mr. Speaker, keep them looking like a
House. From the last remark of 'that
bird that has flown, he sat there concert-
ing plans to sit there until the President
was about to rise, but what that Mem-
ber has spoken there is a dose of his own
medicine, a doctor shop knife, cut both
ways, no principle, but the people op are
finding that out and they have reached
to a point where they would not toler-
ate the sight of him. He is the only man
who go to the whipping place and slan-
der Joshua, Joshua, Joshua, and that
same thing created as many sympathy
votes as you never expected in this coun-
try because tlese people know better
than we are thinking in this island here.
I am persuaded and I am surprised to
see that Minister who calls himself with-
out portfolio call on God. I believe his
idea of God is the God of Mercury or the
god of Wine. I believe his idea of a god
is the god of baccanilian thieves. When
he got back a dose of his own medicine
he howls like when the minotaur was
stabbed in Midas' labyrinth in Greece.
He howls and he wants to tear you to
pieces like a ten-clawed adenoid; but in
the precincts of this House he comes
here campaigning right under the
shadow of the police men and the horse-
shoe table of this House. But that would
not help. What would help is honesty
In Governmental affairs. You could
say what you like. You could make
sneers and jeers about strikes and you
mean to say you go about with the blood
of the working people of the working
people of your island dripping from you
and say you are Minister. We are Minis-

ters. That is how you do it? That is how
we do it in this island, when in a coun-
try you strain every nerve to have every
vestige of labour protection removed
from it under guise that who do not know
that even a strike is a last resort for
bargaining? Since when in our country
was there any labour disputes? Do you
expect to live having a type of condition
as obtaining in our country here, and
you wanted to see as owners of planta-
tions are the stooge that nothing happen
to protect the poor labourer that they
would be unprotected and devoured by
the wolves?
This Minister who calls himself with-
out portfolio spoke of a stench which
smells in the banana- industry. Where
an institution proclaimed by ordinance is-
being operated under such a Govern-
ment, anything can happen. It is only
because it touched his corns he spoke.
If it was something to assist corruptly or
otherwise the Member for South Lee-
ward, would not say anything here. He
would have been in conspiracy with it;
but now it affects his own selfish inter-
est and he bawls out to the House that
microphone is being used for campaigns,
this being done because he finds those
weapons are to remove from this House
forever one of the most cruel political
cctopuses that ever disgraced this hon-
ourable house. The question is this.....
HON. H. F. YOUNG; One who can
match you.
Mr. PRESIDENT: I must ask the Hon-
ourable Members not to interrupt the
Ho:T. E. T. JOSHUA: Mr. President, we
have in this country-I am bringing you
to it now sir-a Social Services Ministry.
We heard so much talk from the last
council meeting to this one about work-
er, worker, poor worker, you have on
several occasions reports in writing on
the removal of certain hideous bulk of
straw as houses, over three or four years
ago, into season an ovt of season. I am
sorry that Mr. dosSantos slipped out of
here. He has his dose to get, he suspected
and slipped out. The question is that in
the days before we had our Social Ser-

vices and all this kind of thing-this is
a clear indication from what that Mem-
ber for South Leeward said that our
government is corrupt to the very core
and. these things function by sheer dint
of corruption by what he said here about
bananas ......
HON. H. F. YOUNG: Mr. President on a
point of explanation. I spoke as a grow-
er. of bananas an as the representative
of the people who grow bananas, not as
a member of the Government.
HON. E. T. JOSHUA: To fool everybody.
HON. H. F. YOUNG: Not fool. I was
directly clear. I grow bananas. You
have not got a bread fruit tree.
HON. E. T. JOSHUA: It was your spirit
speaking just now and the Member for
South Leeward speaking now? Mr.
President, the question is this: We have
in the year 1947 scores of houses being
broken down and thrown in the public
road by estate owners in the North
Windward area. Those were the days
when it took a nominated Member to
carry any labour decisions here. The
constitution was as such that if any
measure was to become law you had to
have the support of a Nominated Mem-
ber. Now is it not a shame in this burn-
ing 1957? From 10 years ago that thing
used to obtain but now you have at
Colonarie a patch of grass there, labour-
ers' houses being broken down despite
the fact the Ministry for Social Services,
the. Administrator and all concerned
knew, but in collusion just' as I knew,
and I am neither Minister, Priest nor
deacon; but some gowns would be taken
off. Be that as it may, you have the
Colonarie pasture there scenes, and as
the Member for South Leeward whose
corns were stepped upon by the use of all
these weapons of the Banana Associa-
tion against him down there that he now
-I see another point, a worse point
than the one he tries to explain.
Whether he is Member of Government or
talking as Honourable Young, or Banana
Association member or otherwise, it is
the same person there, and I say this
that these houses after seven-days quit
notices were given, so many years, so

many months, so many weeks, so many
days in arithmetical progression, this
Government knew of the state of affairs
which obtained there. I even asked
them to remove the unseemly trash right
before the main road. No one cared.
But alas just as election is around the
corner the collusion to break those
houses down for propaganda, that is to
tell you how dangerous this government
is, to suffer people in such a callous
fashion only to get propaganda and the
same people's vote to put you back on the
Legislative Council. That was a plan, a
concerted plan, that if you break down
these houses the people will see that
Joshua can do nothing for them. These
houses were broken -down and Mr. dos
Eantos should have known better. Al-
though the Minister for Social Services
told people in campaigns that he would
have something done, it was the Central
Housing and Planning Authority that
asked Mr. dosSantos to stay his hands.
Think of it. Families were thrown out
on the roads after seven-days quit no-
tices, when you have a Ministry for
Social Services and a Public Assistance
department. If it were not for the vin-
dictive and definite attitude towards the
people of the area, it would have been a
fact that arrangements that were made
to have these people live there for a few
weeks longer until alternative accommo-
dation be found, that is the simplest
thing for a Government having in this
Council one who hears and knows the
state of affairs that exists in this colony,
but you would not hear that. During my
period in this Council I have seen a state
of affairs which I would ask the ruler of
this universe never to subject me to
again. I have seen you understand men
in opposition, you understand men who
would go to the lowest types of latrine
pits to accomplish their ends in this
House. You would not expect men to
dabble in filth like this. The iype cf
behaviour it reveals a type of character
that is not befitting for even being a
Legislative Councillor of bull cattle in-
stead of oxen. But nevertheless faith
and destiny and retribution pays its
workers as early as ever and what is to
be, will be.

The question of a Government func-
tioning with ministeral responsibility
having a Social Services Ministry and
shows us it is only a fraud, a farce, has
no meaning whatsoever, in that if I know
that there are vetoes in the the hands of
the Governor or the Administrator and
those vetoes are certainly used where
there is not a subservient stooge and
traitor to his country, you find that those
vetoes are used where measures obtains
that should not be. Therefore no one
can tell me who is ordering the game but
the game is only a certain set of people.
Intelligence can always serve. I have it.
Illiteracy can do nothing but tell lies all
over the place and show a fraudulent typa
of behaviour to the people who find you
out gradually. The question Mr. Speaker
is this, that at the Colonarie junction,
between the road to Park Hill, directly
opposite the main road and the Belle
Vue School, there are heaps of ruins of
houses that I am drawing this House's
attention to, families who have been dis-
possessed by seven-day quit notices.
Those people lived on the estate at
Colonarie all their lives, 43 years and so
on and to their children. I have heard
many amusing motions on land but they
have nothing to do with that, at this
time especially. The question now
arises those people are left there. You
hear so much talk but that is kept a
family secret even in debates this morn-
ing I heard the political iceberg debark,
unlike the Titanic passing, they never
made one reference to the Honourable
Third Nominated Member; but it is
known that we will find Child he is in
his grave now. He cannot any more
support candidates with estate money to
fool the people. He is dead now but that
one is still alive. You would not touch
him, you would not say a word; but that
is the greatest conspiracy more than the
Banana Association conspiracy of using
those properties expressed by that Mem-
ber there for South Leeward and doing
all corrupt things, but pretending now
not be speaking as a Member of the St.
Vincent government. I say this....
Mr. PRESIDENT: I would remind the
Honourable Member that he is drawing
to his close.

HON. E. T. JOSHUA: Just tell me how
many minutes.
Mr. PRESIDENT: One minute.
HON. E. T. JOSHUA: One minute more?
I am robbed of 5. Let me say this, make
it as clear as light: Faith and destiny
are things mortals cannot escape. Those
who call upon God may mean any God.
There are several Gods. The God of
thieves and robbers, Mercury. The god
of wine, Bacchus, and sometimes the
goddess to break the monotony, Bullona
the goddess of War. I am saying this
gentlemen, I cannot even admire you.
I could not even look at you as gentle-
men; but nevertheless the type of be-
haviour you all portrayed in this House,
the quality of your debate after being
here for years is as low and as poor as a
louse being cracked for want of sub-
stance in sucking a person even in the
dirtiest class.
HON. J. A. BAYNEs: Mr. President,
Honourable gentlemen, this evening per-
haps the end of another mile stone, I
have been in this Council as a Member
representing St. George for 2 seasons. I
have listened to all types of debates,
some full of fury others full of sound;
but I must admit that I never thought
that today which brings most of us to
the end of a second season we would end
up with the same.thing we started with 6
years ago, throwing words across the
Table and fighting to express the most
abusive language that one's vocabulary
can harness. I feel today that this
Council has done quite a spot of work in
spite of the existence and presence of
disunity which made itself seen and felt
during the last 3 years. In spite of that
disunity, fate and destiny actually allow-
ed progress to be made in this island. I
am almost sure that in the actual en-
deavour of every representative of this
House, more progress has been the con-
sequence than if we had a united House
over the past three years.
It is true to say that everything that
took place here has not been to my per-
sonal satisfaction; but mixing the good
with the bad I have found out that the

good achieved here far exceeds the bad.
In spite of all that has happened, in
spite of all the words hurled across this
table during the past few years, I be-
lieve that the men present here have
actually made a contribution to the pro-
gress and advancement of this island. I
hope that whoever may come to this
Table will make every effort to let this
progress continue so that the contribu-
tion that we have made may not be
buried or left behind. I hope that
every member will be leaving this
house this evening feeling satisfied
that during the last three years he has
done his best. I hope that the President
himself who has been urfder fire time and
time again from me and from every
other Member should be able to look
back on that period spent here with us
that every effort was made for the future
betterment of St. Vincent as a whole. I
hope that when this Council is prorogued
and a new Council come into being they
will find ways and means of checking the
work done so that they will serve as foot
prints to guide them in the future.
HON. L. C'. LATHAM: Mr. President,
Honourable Members, I think we have
come to the end of a perfect day and the
time has come when we should say good-
bye. I came to the Council in January
1954 as an Elected Member, joined the
remnants of the 8bh Army, and during
that time I have learned a lot because we
have found our opinions divided. I came
here I found that in the elected element,
each man had his own ideas. I was not
on the party system, but still for all I
am convinced that this present Legisla-
tive Council did a good job.
But now as we have come to the time to
say good-bye Mr. President, you are still
in the Chair and you still have-questions
to answer here since last meeting; but I
figured that you are leaving it in abey-
ance until this meeting. That was the
question of the road traffic regulations.
I have made a complaint here regarding
the hardship brought upon the people
who have a pick-up or a truck to devel-
op their lands, and you promised to in-
vestigate and report back to this Coun-
cil. Since that time I have heard

nothing and at Ote same time hardship
still continue. I have seen persons who
own trucks and pickups convicted and
fined and it is not such a good thing
because I know that the Colonel is ask-
ing or saying that if you want permission
to carry anybody with a 'T' plate you
must come to him and get permission.
I do not see that in the law. I do not
know if the law says that a person who
has a T licence plate cannot carry pas-
sengers. I cannot see the point why you
should go to him and get permission. I
have seen a resident of Mesopotamia was
handed three summonses right up at
Sion Hill going home with his children
some Saturdays ago, and he was told by
the traffic cop to put them out right
there. They had to walk home. From
a lengthy argument there he got three
Mr. President, this is our last meeting
and you have amended a lot of bills here,
even a police bill today. Bills are coming
to be amended here and I do not have
to bring a motion here to amend this, I
think you should, as Minister for Home
Security, bring it here for amendment,
because I have told you and you have
seen it that the people are suffering
great hardships from those rules or from
the head of the department. Most peo-
ple in the country have lands to develop
and cannot develop lands without a pick-
up, and what they are given to under-
stand that they cannot carry passengers,
you cannot carry the people to work from
one field to another unless you get par-
mission from the Colonel. I cannot see
the point at all Mr. President. Look at
the Public Works trucks up to yesterday
taking over 60 people from one place to
another. Look at the two banana jeeps
n marked 'T' taking people around to spray
bananas throughout the length and
breadth of the island. One man was
taking home three children and he got
three summonses-each child a sum-
mons. Ridiculous! Mr. President as
I told you the quicker you get this thing
amended the better.
At the same time Mr. President Hon-
ourable Members as the time has come
when we should say good-bye, I mean on
the Opposition side Mr. President, we

should say good-bye here because Coun-
cil is prorogued at the end of this month
and the time will come when Ministers
too will have to leave their gowns. I do
not know where they leave their gowns
whether it is here or at the Ministries
but I think the time is approaching when
the gowns of the Ministers will be left
in the Ministry so Mr. President, Hon-
ourable Members, I shall say until we
meet again and best.luck for a good
HON. G. H. CHARLES: Mr. President,
Honourable Members, at this moment I
must say how happy I am to see that
today is our last session around this
horse-shoo table. I think that we should
at least end up by telling each other
good--bye. I did not expect to hear the
type of behaviour that I have heard from
the second speaker. Now I heard the
Honourable Member for North Windward
say that we have got a Ministry or a
Minister for Social Services to see that
people houses were being broken down
at the North Windward area between
Colonarie and Park Hill Road; but he
did not outline to this House how long
ago this matter ended. That incident
took place six months ago. It was not
my area, but I made about six trips out
there, I approached Mr. dosSantos about
three or four times, I approached the
Magistrate which I think is the duty of
the Honourable Member who represent
the people of that area. He was the man
who should have gone out to defend his
people because when in Mt. Grenan in
Central Windward, the people were in
distress, I went out and got 3 acres of
land from Mr. Punnett for nothing which
was handed over to the Government for
those people, and the Government I
think purchased about 4 or 5 acres. I
went out and did that as representative
of those people and I think that was the
step you should have taken to safeguard
the people of your area. However he
said that the Minister for Social Services
is in I would term it to mean, in a plot
with the Magistrate, the Administrator
and Mr. dosSantos and so on, because
that is what he meant. I wonder if you
would tell this House......

Mr. PRESIDENT: Will the Honourable
Member please address the Chair.
HON. G. H. CHARLES: Mr. Chairman,
Hon. Members, I did not expect the Hon-
ourable Member to outline to the House
something that happened about 5 months
ago, when it was in truth the sugar busi-
ness and the strike which we were debat-
ing. The Chairman and Honourable
Members will agree that the strike was
caused through. his incitement. His
agitation was so strong that it caused
those people to use language that they
should not use to the owner of the
estate, and because of that the owner
of the estate figured that these people
were not fit to be around him. He gave
them notices to quit his land and they
refused and were taken before the Magis-
trate Court. The Magistrate ordered
that those houses be broken down. I
went to Mr. dosSantos and I begged and
he said that he could do nothing because
the matter was in the hands of theC
Magistrate. I went to the Magistrate
and I asked him to give us a chance by
staying the warrant, because the police
had reached on the spot with the car-
penters to destroy those houses. And
because of that I succeeded in getting
the Magistrate to stay the warrant for
at least 3 months. During that time I
went to the Housing.and Planning Au-
thority and asked them to see what they
could do for those poor people. The
Secretary, Mr. Neehall, went out and
wrote letters to Mr. dosSantos to negoti-
ate fcr acquiring a portion of that land.
During that time the Honourable Mem-
ber held a meeting some where around
the area and lambasted from Mr. dos
Santos right down and because of that,
Mr. dosSantos called upcn the Magistrate
and told him that he expected him to do
his duty because he could not keep the
people on his lands any longer. As a
result those houses were broken down
and thrown in the road. Who is to be
blamed? The Minister for Social Ser-
vices? That is the big point Mr. Chair-
man, Hon. Members, He continued to
fool people and making his statements
so sweet in the House that the people
in Kingstown, who do not know the

truth, will believe that it is something
that happened last week. There were
five Legislative Council meetings here
and this Member never took the' oppor-
tunity to bring this matter to this House,
today is the last meeting and he is now
coming to tell this house of what hap-
pened up there. It is a shame.
Now Mr. Chairman, Hon. Members, I
was glad when my Honourable friend said
that the poor Minister for Social Services
raised a trade union and it did not last
as long as Miss Janie fire. I am.glad he
did not go any further because I believe
he has got a conscience, so he could not
go any further; but Mr. Chairman, Hon.
Members, I hope that those of us who
return in the new Government will con-
tinue to show progress. Those who are
probably wasting their time might not
have anything to say or to continue the
good work; but I am sure that some of
us around this table have done a lot of
work, and today I wish that some one
could start the ball rolling to say what
they have done from 1951, for the good
and welfare of St. Vincent or their con-
stituency, and as I said before, I would
like to see on what boat my friend would
find himself. We know that this is a
serious time and as I have heard some of
my friends talk about Ministers and
gowns. You know what happened Mr.
President, Hon. Members, and if religious
ministers could take off their gowns,
what happen to political ministers?
There is nothing in that. I have not
seen one thing in that.
The last time I can remember going
around to acquire some information
about this modern secondary school, I
saw a blind man just on the corner be-
tween Marine Square and Frederick
Street, selling papers, and ihis day they
had an incident at the beach at Mayaro or
somewhere about there, and this is what
happened. The headlines of the paper
was 'Schoolmaster and son drowned'.
This man always called out and said
what was on the headlines, he said 'Come
and get your paper, school master and
son drowned, who drown, drown and who
save, save.' He cannot see, that is all he
was saying and everybody running and

buying to read what happened. My rea-
sons for saying this is that the fight in
Central Windward-I do not know for
elsewhere-will be a dire fight. I am
saying it here. He is telling people that
because I told him around the table that
we will do everything that lies in our
power to push him out that is why he
challenged Central Windward, but I wish
to say they had a record called 'Jonah.'
Jonah says 'one gone.' Well one of us
must go but I do not know which one of
us yet. You can do whatever you like
because the fight will not be an easy one
and one of us will return. But I hope
that those of us who return will be able
to continue our good government and to
see all the things that we have on foot,
the deepwater scheme, our marketing
scheme, telephone etc., continue so that
the progress of St. Vincent will be seen
by those who were absent for a few years.
At this juncture I must say to my col-
leagues good-bye and I am hoping to
see all of you back with the exception
that if my Honourable friend from North
Windward challenge my constituency
well I think one of us has gone.
HON. R. E. BAYNES: Honourable Presi-
dent, Honourable Members, it is very
unfortunate and regretful that Members
of this House seem to take arguments
and facts for abuse. Now that is very
noticeable in the remarks made by the
Honourable Member for North Wind-
ward. He knows and realises that many
of us have never attempted to abuse
him in the way in which he has at-
tempted to abuse us; but it would appear
as though some of'us cannot stand facts
when we see them. Now the case made
out today was a clear one in connection
with the people he represents and he has
told me and he has expressed it here very
openly that he loved the common man;
but I really do not like to hear him ex-
press his love for the common man. He
must act it, and during the life of this
Council I can say this that there are
more arguments against him for acting
against the common man than for the
common man.
Now we talk about back-pay and we
talk about strikes. I am reminded of

the Hodgens recommendations of 1952
which set out the salaries of the Civil
Service. This same Government having
consideration of the fact that the cost
of living was glaringly evident set about
to set up a labour board to examine the
wages then paid to labourers and to
make recommendations to this govern-
ment. That committee was well bal-
anced. There were representatives of
labour on one side, representatives of
planters on the other side, and very im-
partial representative comprising that
committee. What happened? Just what
has always happened. The Honourable
Member for North Windward never turn-
ed up and so the whole committee ended
in a failure. That was in 1952. In 1955
when the Government again realizing
that these poor labourers wages were out
of proportion with the cost of living,
recommended that we should get Sir
Clement Malone to make investigations
into the sugar industry, and into the
general wages on behalf of general
labour. What we find again? When
Recommendations came out the same
labour leader comes forward and says we'
should get four years back pay. Alright.
The man should have got his wage four
years ago; but he never told the workers
who was responsible for him not getting
the wage four years ago. Let us be fair.
If you are going to assume responsibility
on behalf of labour nobody is really going
to criticise you, or ostracise you, or abuse
you; but do not try to come and tell
honest and responsible people that they
are traitors and dishonest to them when
you yourself know that on all these occa-'
sions, go and check on these Boards, and
see how much of your spare time you
have given for and on behalf of this poor
and unfortunate worker that you say to
us that you love so much. I know that
you are going to hurl abuse but I take
them. Some people seem to mistake
arguments and facts for abuse. Please
I am not abusing you and I will not
attempt to abuse the Honourable Mem-
ber for North Windward. I have the
greatest respect for this House and the
greatest respect for the Honourable
Member. I only want to let hiin know
that any type of slander he can hurl at

me, I can find sufficient arguments and
facts in support of my statements.
Now with regard to the point made by
the Honourable Member for South Lee-
ward, it is very unfortunate that at this
time some of these apparent changes
which he referred to did appear to him
to be politics; but the St. Vincent
Banana Association has just trained
four men because of the expansion of
the industry and. because of the fact
that the area in which the previous 4
inspectors operated, was too extensive
for them to cover advantageously and no
ltey had to train four new inspectors in
order to divide the areas. Now these in-
spectors are not given a travelling allow-
ance, so in appointing them we have to
give first and foremost consideration to
the fac t that when these men are ap-
pointed they are appointed in close prox-
imity to their homes. On the Leeward
end there was one chap changed from
Barrouallie, and so we divided the North
Leeward area into two. One chap is
from Chateaubelair or from Troumaca
and we put in the Chateaubelair Trou-
maca district; and one is from Barrou-
allie, we put him on the Barrouallie
district; so you find in all the other
areas. The decision to put these men
there was purely a decision of the
Board without consideration of any
political party. I want to say this that
the Honourable Member for South Lee-
ward is a responsible representative of
people and some of the points which he
has brought to this House that have
been brought to his attention he should
send it on to the Board, and I can assure
him-the Honourable Financial Secre-
tary who is also a member of the Board
can also support me that the matter
would be dealt with very impartially
without consideration to the fact that
any member of the Banana Association
is connected to any political party.
Now these are conditions that come up
from time to time in an organisation
such as this, because not 'very long ago
a matter happened just on the last ship-
ment. Here was a carrier of bananas
from the Leeward area to the shed and

according to the arrangements.for carry-
ing bananas the price paid covers the
price from the Cumberland shed to
along-side the ship. Involved in that
price is a draw back of the sum of $4.30
for lighterage and so this particular
carrier gets a sum of 15 which is more
than is normally paid to others because
of the fact that the Association gets a
draw back for lighterage. If on any one
occasion the ship was late, the Associa-
tion is prepared at its own expense to
unload the launch and put the banana
in a lighter so as not to inconvenience
a particular grower or particular carrier.
But if the ship was only an hour late, the
Association is not prepared to unload
that launch, put it in a lighter and then
unload that launch again, because the
association must see that there is as
little handling as possible. But what
does this carrier contend? I am not
talking from hear say. He told me he
must be in his house when night comes
and so when the launch appears at the
point we must have a lighter ready to put
the fruit in it for he is not prepared to
wai ll t at all. But he was so hurt because
he had to wait for two hours for the ship
that when he was finished unloading, he
sent to tell us ashore that he was not
going for one stem more of the bananas.
He went straight down to Cumberland
and left 870 stems of bananas there at
one o'clock at night. The Association
then had to rush all around, get trucks
and go as far as Troumaca to get the
third truck to take up those 870 stems,
When he realized what he had com-
mitted he came to the Association and
said that he was prepared to pay the
cost for the handling of the fruit.
The Association said "NO. If we had to
put trucks as on this occasion for some-
time, then we would do so because you
are very irresponsible. If you could do a
thing like that to an Association that has
been paying you a reasonably good price,
all these years then the association will
never know where they are with you and
it is not the first occasion, it is the second
time." Sometime ago he came and said
he wanted 16 cents because he was the
only carrier, and those are some of the

conditions which obtain in an associa-
tion. Many persons hear a case on one
side, and when they come and listen to
the case on the other side it is an entirely
different thing.
Before I take my seat I must say like
all the other members that for the past
six years the relation here between my-
self and all other persons connected in
this Legislative Council Chamber has
always been of the most cordial and I
say this that in any organisation if it is
to run very smoothly the accomplishment
could never as much as if there was a
certain amount of friction and argument
from time to time. It is for that reason
that in the Mother of Parliament we
have a very strong and well constituted
Opposition and above everything else
what I would like to see in St. Vincent is
the time when we would have organised
parties in this House and a well consti-
tuted Opposition, not opposing things for
the purpose of opposing, but opposing
and at the same time pointing out to the
public why it was necessary to oppose
measures brought here from time to
HON. S. E. SLATER: Mr. President,
Honourable Members, I believe it is my
duty to make mention of this point I am
now bringing forward and it is this: I
am asking that Government would go
into the Land Settlement and cause an
investigation of that scheme. My reason
for saying so is this: The Land Settle-
ment scheme functioning now about
seven cr eight years or more I believe,
have not been paying income tax or
adding anything to the revenue of this
Colony like other estates and inspite of
that, the proceeds from those estates are
falling lower and lower and lower. The
reason is unknown to me and for that I
am asking that an investigation be made
to find out what is the cause. I would
like to make mention of one of the
parties whom I would like to be there,
not because I am in love with him, but
Because he was here from the inception
of that scheme, and that is Mr. Scouten.
You can also if it is possible get some of
the other officers who worked there. I

do not know whether it is because of the
change of Superintendents of Agricul-
ture, changes in currency or the changes
in book-keeping, or what, but something
is radically wrong. The Honourable Min-
ister for Trade and Production was and
I think still is a member of that board
and I do not believe he is taking care of
his business at all because that is one
thing, as a member of that Board he
should have gone into knowing figures
as well as he does know them. I am
surprised to see that he has wasted his
time in a lot of things that he ought not
to have done. and I do hope that this
wish of mine would be carried out.
Another point I must make, I have'
been given a very dirty deal through your
Executive Council and one of your Min-
isters, I believe. As most of you around
this table know that road work is going
on at Spring Village and it is the first
time in history that the crusher and
things of the kind, trucking has been
going on there. In my constituency
there are people from Barrouallie right
down to Chateaubelair. The Spring
Village and Coulls Hill area alone can
handle all the labour there. But what I
find, one of the Ministers, the Minister
for Trade and Production thought it fit
and proper to pass in the Executive
Council that you must send labour from
Kingstown well knowing that labour...
HON. R. E. BAYNES: A point of ex-
planation. Now the people who work on
Government trucks are all from Belair
except one fellow. I would like to make
that point clear to the Honourabl' Mem-
ber for North Leeward and to say that I
could not sit down and allow people to
I could not discriminate
against people in my. own island and at
the same time tell them to become mem-
bers of the Federation.
HON. S. E. SLATER: What I am saying
is this, well knowing the people at Spring
Village are being paid $1.20 per day this
Minister who is talking about economy
and figures so much did not know that
$2.10 is more than $1.20 per day by 900
I am not saying anything against labour
because you have made your adjustments

in your labour Wage Council, you will
be paying $1.60 per day for trucking two
miles out of town. You have been pay-
ing $1.20 per day to the people of Spring
Village, it was felt and decided by the
Minister for Communications and Works
and the engineer they brought out here
that they will use labour on the spot for
trucking and otherwise which will enable
the job to go much further. I believe
you have been there Sir and I think you
are satisfied with the work up to now. I
am dissatisfied because at this time when
it is election time when one should get
together in unity and not show their
dirty linen outside, they take their bad
manners and show it abroad through
selfishness and it is nothing else but sheer
selfishness because in fact and in truth
if it was not vote-catching that Minister
would not have taken it to Executive
Council to make it law when there is a
Minister for Works and Communications
and a Superintendent of Works to
handle labour in his department. It is
out of order and it is most rotten and I
have never seen it done in any time of
my stay in Council. That I think is the
meanest act and depriving taxpayers of
over $7,000 worth of work when you could
have well used those men in public works
here or at the Belair crushing plant.
Because it was suggested that since they
are going to use the trucks down there
they will use the men at Public Works,
but when you do that to throw the men
who live in that part off of a job to take
men from Kingstown to carry them down
there it is not fair to me. Those men
you sent down there I presume you would
like to get their votes. The men thrown
off from my constituency who are living
on the spot, I also would like to get
their votes. And not only that but it is
dirty to see that in a man's own house he
cannot eat his own bread and you would
like that.
When these things happen especially
the people who pretend most of the time
to be very friendly and nice when they
do not mean it. There are lots of things
I have seen and I have heard you just
nov, I have listened very c'-efully, you
spoke about what the member for South

Leeward said and I think most of what
he said is perfectly true. In my area.
people who do not join the Labour Party
cannot get a job in the banana shed.
That is perfectly true and with Mr. Jack,
yourself and Mr. Joachim, that is the
Labour Party in toto. You know very
well you yourself bought votes out of the
Banana Association and I can bring now
the proof.....
HON. R. E. BAYNES: Bought votes?
HON. S. E. SLATER: That's right. De-
finitely. Yes Mr. President the Honour-
able Minister and President of the
Banana Association bought votes from
the proceeds of the Banana Association.
When I say so I mean you over-paid peo-
ple for doing a job that could have been
done for half of the price, well knowing
that you were doing it to get favours
granted to you and lots of those things
are wrong. When you are coming to touch
one's corns you must remember that all
is not well with you. You are not crystal
clear. We all have faults and I am say-
ing this here and now the sooner we
realise that it is better to be fair and
just to one another it will be much better
for all concerned. I must say here that
right now in St. Vincent you have some-
body from St. Lucia buying banana
plants to take to Trinidad to be re-sold.
You as Minister for Trade and Produc-
tion should have investigated that.
That money which is taken away from
here should be given to some peasant or
other for our economy here. You are
very well acquainted with facts and
HoN. R. E. BAYNES: On a point of ex-
planation. I wonder if you realise that
we too bought plants at some time or
other. It seems to me that you really
do not understand what you are talking.
HON. S. E. SLATER: I realise that Mr.
Minister of Trade and Production but
when we bought plants we bought from
Dominica for which we paid Dominica.
You do not want some body from St.
Lucia to come here and buy our plants
to re-sell in Trinidad. That is the point
I am making. That is your business and

that you should have handled. All those
things were left undone to cheat me out
of a couple votes for what reason I do
not know.
I believe I have spent pretty near 6
years as a Member of Council here. I
think I have given what I must say
justice and fairplay to all men. As a
matter of fact I have tried my best and
I believe I have done quite a lot however
hard it might have been to achieve them,
I did achieve something. I am well
pleased that I still succeeded in getting
something done for the people of St.
Vincent, and I do believe as I said before,
that if we had got together we could
have done very much more than what
we have actually done. That I must
say au revior and thank you.
HON. C. L. TANNIS: Mr. President,
Honourable Members, having come to
the end of this session of this Council,
I must say that I thank the Members of
this Honourable House for all:their kind
cooperation that they have given me
during the session. As Minister for Com-
munications and Works and the Minis-
try which controls the greatest amount
of the Colony's funds I thought that this
Ministry would have been the ministry to
put under fire; but I noticed with regret
that no attacks were made on the Minis-
try for Communications and Works. It
appears to me that the Members are
satisfied that the affairs of the M.C.W.
have been carried out in all fairness and
justice. Of course any comments that
I have made to any motions that have
been brought to this House I did so in
all honesty and good consideration for
what effects it might have on the com-
munity as a whole. I hope that the
Members whose motions I did not sup-
port at times did not feel that I did so
for any personal attack; but I did so
with a clear conscience whenever I op-
posed or whenever I supported.
The second period in this House has
been a very pleasant period. I say so
because there was little less bickering in
the second session than we had in the
first session, when the Eighth Army of
Liberation came into being. Therefore
they have achieved more work in this

session than they did in the former one.
That can be clearly seen if Members had
been following the proceedings of this
Council and the happenings around.
Though many of us might say that this
is not the very best Council that we could
have had in St. Vincent, I would say it
was a very good council and with the
limited funds at the disposal of this
council I feel that we have made quite a
good job. I wish you everything that
is good in the future and I hope that
many of us might be here and those
who are not here, the new government
and the new legislature would cooperate
in the interest and advancement of this
Mr. President I must thank you for the
able way in which you conducted the
proceedings of this House although at
times you have given us quite a lot of
leeway in making certain comments. I
believe that had you been more stern we
would have had to put away some of
the ill comments we made at times to
one another during the course of our
debates. However, they were taken in
good faith and your time here as Presi-
dent of this House has been very pleas-
ant. To end I must say best of luck and
good-wishes to those who are going out
and to those who are coming in I wish
you the best of time.
HON. A. C. CYRUS: Mr. President, Hon-
ourable Members, I too would like to add
my quota to the debate on the adjourn-
ment, particularly as I have sat here and
I have heard the Honourable Member for
North Windward accusing the Third
Nominated Member and charging him
with conspiracy. I feel that I am as
much to blame as anybody so far as the
Housing scheme at Colonarie is concern-
ed. When the Honourable Member said
that they are conspiring to do a job of
work there in order to use it as vote
HON. E. T. JOSHUA: On a point of
order you have misconstrued what I have
said. I was speaking of the house after
they had been broken down and thrown
into the road. Not a job of work. Not
any work at all.

HON. A. C. CYRUS: Mr. President the
point I was making is I was acting
as Chairman in February and I went at
Mr. dosSantos because there was a com-
plaint made to us about putting people
off his estate. Mr. dosSantos promised
to let us have some of his best lands just
at the road to facilitate the housing
situation there but he particularly said
that there was a particular woman who
must leave his place at once, because she
abused him. When we have these mat-
ters to deal with we must not take the
human element out of them. Imagine
I have my property, you are living on it,
you abuse me and then tell me that you
were advised by certain people not to do
this and so on, and to treat. me in any
manner you like. What can I do but get
you out by the best possible and surest
means. Nobody would stand for that;
Mr. dosSantos said- that all the other
people there could stay as long as they
liked. To say that he left here because
he thought he was going to come under
fire, that is not fair. I am sure that
nobody hinted to Mr. dosSantos that such
a thing was going to happen. As a mat-
ter of fact I regard him as a man of the
greatest type of character and he is a
man if he hears of what has happened
would be very sorry that he did not
stay and defend himself. However I had
to make that point to clear the air and
to say that I am to be blamed as much
as anybody because I took part in that
housing arrangement.
But to get back to the other side of
things, I must say like the last speaker
that the President has been .conducting
the meetings of this House and not only
this, but also other meetings with great
ability. To be very frank, when we
started the Ministerial System, I expected
that we would have had every now and
again some difficulty with regard to pro-
cedure and what not, but the President
was never found wanting. He kept the
ship of state on an even keel and has
brought it to safe mooring today. The
Ministerial System was something which
was worthy of note because it has been
functioning for over the past 16 months
and I think I can safely say that our
Ministers have done as good a job here

during their short stay in office as any in
the Windward Islands or the West Indies.
To them I must say congratulations.
They have taken up a job of work and
they have shown great ability. During
the Ministerial System we have seen for
the first time an element of Opposition
and it has at present paved the way for
real party politics. To my mind as we
look around and see the activities of the
campaigning bodies, you can see an
awareness of party politics in the atmos-
phere. I think that must have arisen
from the Ministerial System where the
Government Members are on one side
and all the other members on, the other.
Everybody is realising now that we must
get together in order to be in a position
to have a strong thinking Government
or to give strong and healthy opposition.
I must say this however, that we have
had our little bickerings which must be
regarded as healthy signs. We could not
expect a set of men around this Table
who are capable of thinking for them-
selves to agree with everything that is
said. WVe have had our differences, we
have had our cross words but at this
closing stage of this council I am leaving
here this evening feeling happy to be
associated with these men. The most I
can say to them is to wish them all good
luck. I hope if not all, the majority will
get back.
Mr. PiESIDENT: Honourable Members,
The Honourable Members for South
Windward asked me to give him a report
that I promised to give him and I have
it here. It is a three-page document
and I am sure the House would be de-
lighted if I read it at this hour. I do not
propose to read it however, I will send
it to the Honourable Member in writing.
I hope he will feel satisfied when he gets
the report, and he will feel perhaps that
as usual there are two sides to every case.
I would just like to say very briefly,
before we adjourn what we think will be
the last meeting of this House, that it
would be foolish of me to attempt either
to make a funeral oration or to say au
revoir; but I am not here to bury mem-
bers, nor to praise them; but I would
like to praise the House as a whole. I


am aware that the majority have been
Members of this House for six years and
it is only the minority such as the Hon-
ourable Member for South Windward and
myself who have been here for a shorter
period. This House has achieved a great
deal in that time. It has seen and
tackled many changes and I think it may
be proud of its work. It carried the bur-
den of the first impact on St. Vincent
of Adult Suffrage; it saw the difficult
time of St. Vincent moving into Grant-
in-aid and had to tackle practically and
financially all the difficulties which
that led to. It has seen the historic
moving forward into Federation and
played its part in that. It saw the Com-
mittee System which was the embryo of

the constitution which we now have, and
finally it saw the Ministerial System
evolving over the last year. It has had
to put up with, stand up to, and sit down
under, three different presidents and I
must say the House has been very toler-
ant. I congratulate the House on its
legislative work over that period, on its
maintenance of the traditions and the
spirit of unity of the House, while at the
same time allowing for a fair give and
take .crossing of swords in debate. I
thank the House for the tolerance and
kindness and helpfulness which it has
shown me during my period in this

Adjourned 6.40 p.m.

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