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Title: Saint Vincent government gazette
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Permanent Link: http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00077473/00060
 Material Information
Title: Saint Vincent government gazette
Alternate Title: Government gazette
St. Vincent government gazette
Physical Description: v. : ; 35 cm.
Language: English
Creator: Saint Vincent
Publisher: G.P.O.
Place of Publication: Kingstown, St. Vincent
Kingstown St. Vincent
Publication Date: April 10, 1951
Frequency: weekly
regular
 Subjects
Subject: Gazettes -- Periodicals -- Saint Vincent   ( lcsh )
Genre: federal government publication   ( marcgt )
legislation   ( marcgt )
periodical   ( marcgt )
Spatial Coverage: Saint Vincent and the Grenadines -- Saint Vincent
 Notes
Dates or Sequential Designation: v. 1, no. 1 (1868)-v. 112, no. 48 (Tues., 23 Oct. 1979)
General Note: Description based on: Vol. 111, no. 1 (Tues., 3 Jan. 1978); title from caption.
General Note: Supplements which accompany some numbers contain extraordinary issues, ordinances, statutory rules of order, etc.
 Record Information
Bibliographic ID: UF00077473
Volume ID: VID00060
Source Institution: University of Florida
Holding Location: University of Florida
Rights Management: All rights reserved by the source institution and holding location.
Resource Identifier: oclc - 19844741
lccn - sn 89018505
 Related Items
Succeeded by: Government gazette

Table of Contents
    Main
        Page 95
        Page 96
        Page 97
        Page 98
    Statutory Rules and Orders No. 27: The St. Vincent Grammar School (Amendment) Regulations, 1951
        Page A-79
        Page A-80
    Statutory Rules and Orders No. 28: The St. Vincent Girls' High School (Amendment) Regulations, 1951
        Page A-81
        Page A-82
    Minutes of meeting of the Legislative Council held on 5th October, 1950
        Page B-41
        Page B-42
        Page B-43
        Page B-44
        Page B-45
        Page B-46
        Page B-47
        Page B-48
        Page B-49
        Page B-50
        Page B-51
        Page B-52
        Page B-53
        Page B-54
        Page B-55
        Page B-56
        Page B-57
        Page B-58
        Page B-59
        Page B-60
        Page B-61
        Page B-62
        Page B-63
        Page B-64
        Page B-65
        Page B-66
        Page B-67
        Page B-68
        Page B-69
        Page B-70
        Page B-71
        Page B-72
Full Text























SA INT VINCENT


GOVERNMENT


GAZETTE


Published b, utlorit .


VOL. 84.] SAINT VINCENT, TUESDAY, 10 APRIL, 1951. [No. 1.8-.


GOVERNMENT NOTICES.

No. 157.
PROBATIONARY APPOINTMENTS.
Mr. O. S. BARROW, lately employed
by the Colonial Development Corpora-
tion, St. Lucia, as Senior Clerk, Registry
and Court Stenographer, on six months'
probation, with effect from 1st April,
1951.
10th April, 1951.
(A. 51/1948).

No. 158.
HEADMISTRESS, GIRLS' HIGH SCHOOL.

The Secretary of State for the Colonies
has selected- Miss JESSIE MAY BUCHAN,
M.A., Dip : Ed., for appointment to the
Colonial Educational Service, on pro-
bation, as Headmistress, St. Vincent
Girls' High School.
Miss BUCHAN is expected to leave the
United Kingdom for this Colony on first
opportunity after 1st April, 1951.
10th April, 1951.
(E. 9/1947).

No. 159.
With reference to Government Notice
No. 50 of 30th January, 1951, Mr. M. V.
WILLIAMS assumed duty at Union Island
on 5th March, 1.951.
10th April, 1951.
(P. F. 180).


No. 160.
SICK AND VACATION LEAVE.
Miss SHIRLEY ANDERSON, Junior
Clerk (Government Office), 28 days' sick
leave from 27th March, 1951 to be
followed by 3 months' vacation l ave.
10th April, 1951.
(P. F. 371).

No. 161.
LEGISLATION.
The following Documents are publish-
ed with this issue of the Gazette:--
S.R. & O. No. 27.-The St. Vincent
Grammar School (Amendment)
Regulations, 1951.
(E 3/1946).
S.R. & O. No. 28.-The St. Vincent
Girls' High School (Amendment)-
Rr.gulations, 1951.
(E. 3/1946).
10th April, 1951.

No. 162.
SUPPLEMENT TO GAZETTE.
Copies of minutes of meeting of the-
Legislative Council held on the 5th
October, 1950. which may also be seen at
the Government Office, Kingstown Li-
brary, and at all Revenue Offices and
District Post Offices, are published with
this issue of the Gazette.
10th April 1951.


331.1 o

S<-6s









96 SAINT VINCENT, TUESDAY, 10 APRFL, 1951.-(No. 18).


No. 163. (including St. Vincent) being recruited
EMPLOYMENT SITUATION. for employment under contract for speci-
S fled periods. .Insofar as the Netherlands
West Indies (Aruba and Curacao) are
The Government of St. Vincent has for concerned, there is rio large scale demand
.some time been concerned about the for British West Indian workers at the
rising cost of living owing to the in- present time, and vacancies whenever
:creased cost of imported articles due they occuL are likely to be filled from the
largely to the stock piling: for rearma-. local population of the Netherlands West
ment in both the United Kingdom and Indies. Government. is publishing else-
the United States of Arierica. where:a statement regarding the actual
2. It is fully understood by the Gov- figures of workers recruited for employ-
ernment that this rise in cost of living is* ment in the Netherlands West Indies dur-
bearing hardly on every member of the ing the.years of 1942-1945 and the posi-
community. In addition to thi~, the tion since that date.
Government, in common with other 6. Enquiry was also made regarding
West Indian Governments, is faced with employment prospects in Panama and
the problem of bver-population. The Government was informed that there
economy of the Colony isf- dependent was little reason to expect any notewor-
mainly on Agriculture, and although ac- thy increase of the labour force in the
tive steps are being taken to increase Canal Zone before the year 1970, and
_production, the agricult'iral- industry should unsettled world conditions neces-
cannot absorb the number or workers state any augmentation of the existing
who are -seeking employment, and in fact. labour force, such Iabour as might be re-.
is being severely hindered by the number quired could be supplied for some time to.
of- workers who are charitably employed core from the ranks of the unemployed
in that sphere. Other avenues :of em- in the Republic of Panama.
.ployment, namely the Government Ser- 7. Quite recently, it was decided by'
vice and commercial establishments,' are Government to raise the rates of workers,
not in a position to employ a very large and this has been done not because of
percentagee: of the' population. With a any pressure from without, but because
view to remedying tlfe situation a sub- it is normally the practice to raise the'
cbimiittee of the Labour Advisory B6ard .wages of- workers if the price of the main
infconsultatiion with *the Heads of the' crops are increased. It is hoped that
Public Works, Agriculture, Medical, Edu'- 'this will assist those persons within nor-
cation, Piblic Relations' and Labour De-: mal employment to meet 'the present sit-
partments, recommended the establish- uation, but:'it is realized that the main
ment of certain industries from a comr- trouble of the agricultural or industrial
mercial basis and *the enactment of leg- worker is that he is not given full em-
islation for granting relief from payment ploynient during the week and he niay
of Customs Duties and Income Tax in re- find himself with orly two or three days
aspect of such industries for a limited pe- employment out of seven. There:;,are
.riod. two ways of meeting- such a situation : .
3. 'The Government'have accepted in (a) Decreasing the cost of normal
principle thesee rechnirmeidations and 'a foodstuffs to the community by
Pion:ers Aid to industries'Bill has been subsidization.
lJrepared -and- is ready for introduction (b) The creation of.employment.
.into the Legislative Council'. Plans for Government in reviewing (a) considered
the formation of a Development .Board: that. for one year a-sum of.not less than
are also in progress. It is expected that $100,.000 would be required, and at the
this-Board Will be constituted with ihem- end of tha. .time there :would. be:nothing
bers not entirely from within-the Gov- to show for the.expenditure, ,and in any
ernment Service and also possibly with case a policy of subsidies was not a good
persons from other Colonies in the 'Ca- one.' )uriig the next, 0two or three
ribbean Area if they will-agree to serve. months, therefore, the Govern nent
4. It should be noted, however, that hopes; in order to relieve :the situation.
4.to create -some employment -by fecomn-
all these plans are in the main long term tmencingework on' the i'poy nstcti ecom-
projects and do not therefore take into the nVigi Highway nd theascertaint ub-
account the unfortunate state of unem- urban roads. It should, be fully inder-
ployment which exists in 'St. Vincent at stood that these os ae uly ne
the present time. stood that these works are merely in the
At. ulr :i eet nature of relief to unemployed people at
:. 0 e ntfully appreciates that the present time, and should not be tak-
tie enb0loymient of vorlker- outside the en- as- a.change in GOvernnent's poli',,
i'olon. E reahtl ssi7sts the social and eco- regardJng finance. It will inv 6lve the ex-
Tionici i.ell-bein3 of the people, and in 1pedlltl.-ie of Government fundsobut it's
the event of there being an appreciable fe!t that s;ch an expenditure, notwith-
ctpAnsion in the dcmnand. of the United standing the difficult financial situation
States armed foirce ad 'inltmistry, there of the Colony, will assist n res ring,)cn-
is a possibility of agriculdli wo ikers fidence amongst the citizens of St. 1Vin-
from the British West Indian Colonies cent.













SAINT VINCENT, TUESDAY, 10 APRIL, 1951.-(No. 18).


8. It is accepted by Government that,
in view of the claims that have been put
forward by the Civil Service for over a
year, it would be unjust to spend the.
money which it will be necessary to spend
for these relief works without giving con-
sideration to the Civil: Segvice. The re-
sults of the MacLeod-Sititti' Cbmrhission
onA the Cost of Living position have not
yet been received; blit it is understood
that a certain increase in cost of living is
necessary in view of the most recent rise
in prices. The Government does ,not at
this stage commit itself to any particular
figure, but iiitends to make a gesture in
giving the Civil Servants'a certfai me:2
suie of relief. It should be clearly 'uni-


derstood by all, however, that the em-
ployment of labour and: the payment of
extra aid '"t the Civil Service are ii.'fact
nb more than gestures of good faith, as
the financial Sitiution of the Colony
would preclude the Government from
creating Wholesale and, widespread em-
ployment. Government has also no-
ticed with dismay a certain tendency on
the part of the worker in the West Inddin
Colonies at the present time to strike
without, proper negotiation, and e411%
upon all workers to understand that skch
methods are unconstitutional and that
negotiations should always precede any
notification- o'f'a strike.
5th April, 1951.


No. 140.
VISIT OF UNITED KINGDOM INDUSTRIAL CONSULTANT TO ST. VINCENT.,,
It is announced for general information that arrangements are being made to
enable Mr. O. W. Roskill, a' well-kniown Industrial" Consultant in the United
Kingdom, to visit Grenada. and St. Vincent during the last half of April, 1951, to
advise and report on the possibility of establishing industries in those two
Colonies. An application'has been sent to the Secretary of State for a grant from
Colonial Development and Welfare funds to finance this visit.
Any body of persons or individuals who may wish to submit schemes to or
have interviews with the Industrial Consultant during his visit to St. Vincent
should communicate their wishes to the Administrator, Government House.
It is expected that Mr. Roskill will arrive in the Colony about the 26th of
April. When a firm date for his arrival has been fixed a further notice will be
published.
27th March, 1951.
(T 14/43)


No. 152. .
VACANT POST.

POST OF A ASSISTANT SUiPERINTENb)ENT
OF WORKS, ST. -VINCENT, B.W.I.

Applications are invited for the vacant
post of Assistant.Superintendent of Pub-
lic Works,.St. Vinocent,-'B.W.I.
rTlhe .salary of ,the post is in the scale
.$1,920 per annum rising by annual incre-
ments of $96 to $2,400-per ainnum. The
post is' pensionable. A cost of living1
allowance at the rate of $190.20 per,
annum, or at such other rate as may be
prescribed from time to time, is payable.
A transport allowance at the rate ob $180
per annum, to which -a temporary
increase of 33o% has been added, is also
paid.
Applicants should have a working
knowledge of the planning, estimating,
setting out and construction of buildings,
bridges, roads and waterworks and their
maintenance.
Previous experience in a Public Works
Department or with a reputable firm of
contractors and experience in the field
organisation of works and labour will be
taken into account.
-Applications must be addressed to the
Administrator, Government Office, Sr.
Vincent, 13. W. I.. and should reach not
later than 1,5lh Hay, 1951.


Each applicant' should state how soon
it would be possible for;him, if selected,
to take up appointment t.
3rd April, 1951.1
C. 2/1i951).

By Counand

A. V. KING,
Acting Government Secretary.

GOVERNMENT OFFICE,
10th April. 1951.


DEPARTMENTAL AND
OTHER NOTICES.

NOTICE.

VISIT OF AN OPTHALMOLOGIST
TO ST. VINCENT.

1. Dr. ALLEYNE GIBBONS, D.O.M.S.,
a qualified opthalmologist will visit St.
Vincent for about thlre weeks coin-
meiicing around the middle of A)ril;
the exact date will be notified later.
2. Patients wishing to consult Dr.
GIBBONS must notil' the Mediical.
Officer of their District at an early (late.












98 SAINT VINCENT, TUESDAY, 10 APRIL, 1951.-(No. 18).


He will inform them in due course when
and where to attend and will give each
a note of introduction.
3. The charge for an ordinary consul-
tation is ten dollars ($10.00) which must
be paid to the Steward Colonial Hospital
before the consultation. Charges for
specially long consultations or for opera-
tions will be by arrangement.
4. Charges include the cost of a
prescription for glasses where this is
necessary, but do not include the cost of
glasses. Glasses are not supplied.
5. Charges may be reduced or omitted
in cases of poverty on the recommend-
ation of a Justice of the Peace, a
Clergyman, a Member of Legislative
Council, the Headmaster of a School or
any Poor Relief Committee. Such re-
commendations should be given to the
patient for submission to the District
Medical Officer

E. D. B. CHARLES,
Senior Medical Oficer.

Medical Department,
St. Vincent,
27th March, 1951.
(M. 27/1943).


GOVERNMENT COTTON GINNERY.

NOTICE.

All Cotton Growers are requested to
notify the Manager, Government Cotton
Ginnery in writing, at the time of
delivery of their seed cotton to the
Ginnery, of their intentions in regard to
the disposal of the lint.
2. All lint will be shipped to the
Raw Cotton Commission, Liverpool at
the f. o. b. price of 5/- per lb. for 1950/51
Crop previously offered and accepted,
unless the Manager is notified to the
contrary.
3. All growers who do not intend
shipping their cotton to the Raw Cotton
Commission must remove salne within
two weeks of notification that their
cotton has been ginned and baled; all
bales not so removed will be charged
warehouse rent at Government fixed
rates.
4. All cotton growers are reminded
that the Government Cotton Ginnery
hais insured the whole island's crop as
was done in 1950.

V. G. DASILVA,
Manager.


COTTON CLOSE SEASON.

Notice is hereby given that an Order
in Council gazetted on the 3rd April,
1951, declares the Close Season for
Cotton to be as follows:-
St. Vincent-from 1st May, 1951 to
15th August, 1951.
Bequia & Mustique-from 15th April,
1951 to 31st July, 1951.
St. Vincent Grenadines-(e x c e pt
Bequia & Mustique) from 1st May,
1951 to 15th July, 1951.
All cotton and ochro plants must be
destroyed before the Close Season com-
mences. Owing to the prevalence of
Pink Boll Worms, growers are asked to
pay particular attention to the cleaning
up of their cotton houses.
Any person not complying with the
Close Season regulations will be liable
to prosecution.

M. A. G. HANSCHELL,
Superintendent of Agricultur e.
6th April, 1951.
(B. 14/1951).


NOTICE.

PORT ELIZABETH TOWN BOARD
BY-ELECTION.

The Warden will be in attendance at
the Warden's Office on the 23rd day of
April 1951 between the hours of 10 a.m.
and 12 noon for the purpose of taking
nominations to fill the vacancy on the
Port Elizabeth Town Board created by
CYRIL MITCHELL. he having missed
three (3) consecutive meetings.
Should a poll be required it will be
taken on Monday 30th April 1951,.
between the hours of 9 a.m and 5.30 p.m.

HOWARD E. McINTOSH,
Warden.
Port Elizabeth,
Bequia.
9th April, 1951.


GEORGETOWN TOWN BOARD
NOTICE.

It is notified for general information
that the Georgetown Library will be
opened on Wednesday 18th April, 1951.
A cordial invitation is extended to the
general public.


ST. AUBYN CATO,
Chairman.


PRINTED BY THE GOVERNMENT PRINTER AT THE GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE,
KINGSTOWN, ST. VINCENT,
[ Price 24 cents. I








SAINT VINCENT..

STATU RULES AND ORDERS,

--. 1951, No. 27.

ST. VINCENT GRAMMAR SCHOOL (AMENDMENT)
REGULATIONS.

(Gazetted 10th April, 1951).

1. Short title. These Regulations may be cited as the St. Vincent
Grammar School (Amendment) Regulations, 1951,and shall be read as one with
the St. Vincent Grammar School Regulations, -1941 (S. R. & 0-: .1941, No. 23)
hereinafter referred to .: the principal Regulations) and all amendments
thereto.

2. Regulation 21 of principal Regulations revoked and replaced. -
Regulation 21 of the principal Regulations is hereby revoked and replaced as
follows :-
"21 (a) FEES. The tuition fee payable shall be $14.40 per-term for each
pupil;
(b) when two or more brothers attend the school there shall be a
reduction of one-sixth of the' fee in respect of the second andqf,
one-third in respect of the third or any subsequent brother;
(c) The reduction allowed in paragraph (b) of this Regulation shall
also be made in cases of a brother and a sister respectively
attending the School and-the St. Vincent Girls' High School;
(d) An additional fee of forty-eight cents per term shall be paid with
the tuition fee. This fee shall be equally apportioned to the
SSchool Games qCub and the School Library. Every.pupil shall be
entitled to the use of the Library and the Ganies equipment;
(e) All fees shall be payable into the Treasury in advance and a
certificate from the Hpeadmaster that the pupil has passed -tke
entrance examination shall be presented at the Treasury before
payment shall be received.

3. Regulation 26 of principal Regulations revoked andreplaced.
Regulation 26 of the principal Regulations is hereby revoked and replaced as
follows:-
"26. REMISSION OF FEES. The Governor shall have power to order,
on the recommendation of the Headmaster,-the refund or the remission of
the whole or of a portion of a term's fees-as he may think reasonable:




S SSS
suqpI8








SProvided that where the- period of absence in. respect of which any such
recommendation, is made shall be less than onehalf of a term no such
refund or remission shall be ordered."

S 4. VRevocation. The following Regulations are hereby-revoked:-
(a) Regulation 26 (a) of the principal RegdIations as replaced by section 3.
of the St; Vincent Graimmar School JAi~endment No. 2) Regulations,
1942, (5..R(SR& 0.. 1942, No.63); :
(b) The St. Vincent Grammar School (Amendment) Regulations, 1944, (S.
R. & O. 1944, No. 23)-;
(c) Regulation 21 (a) of the principal Regulations as.replaced by section 3
of the St. Vincent Grammar School (Amendment No. 2) Regulations,
1948,.(SR. & 0. 1948 No. 85); .
(d) The-St. Vincent Grammar School (Amendment No. 3) Regulations, 1948,
(S. R. & 0. 1948, No. 99);
,(e) :The St. Vincent Grammar School (Amendment) Regulations, 1949, (S.
SR. 60. 19.49, No. 32) ;


Made by the Governor in Council under section 29 of the Education Ordinance,
S 1937, this 13th day of March 1951.

HENRY H. WILLIAMS,
Acting Clerk of Executive .Council.

Approved by Resolution .of the Legislative Council under section 30 of the
Education Ordinance, 1937, this 5th day of April 1951.

HENRY, H. WILLIAMS,
Acting Clerk of Legislative Council.
(E 3/1946).


r NTs sY THE GOVIRNMINT PRINTER, AT THE G'OVSRxnMNT Pi iNTIf OiMCi
IlNGSTOWN, ST. VINCENT.
[ rice 8 cents.
1951.,


/







81

,SAINT VINCENT.

STATUTORY RULES AND ORDERS,

1951, No. 28.


ST. VINCENT GIRLS' HIGH SCHOOL (AMENDMENT)
REGULATIONS.

~ -(Gazetted 10th April, 1951).

1. Short title. rThese Regulations may be' cited as the St. Vincent
Girls' High School (Amendment) Regulations, 1951, and shall be, read as one with
the St. Vincent Girls' High School Regulations, 1941 (S. R. & 0.- 1941/No. 24)
(hereinafter referred to as the principal Regulations) and all amendments-
thereto.

2. Regulation 21 of principal Regulations revoked and-replaced.
Regulation 21 of the principal Regulations is hereby revoked and replaced as
follows :-
21 (a) FEES. The tuition fee payable shall be $14.40 per term for each
pupil;
(b) when. two or more sisters attend the school there shall be a
reduction of one-sixth of the fee in respect of the second and of
one-third in respect of the third or any subsequent sister;
(c) The reduction allowed in paragraph (b) of this Regulation shall
Also be made in cases of a sister and a brother respectively'
attending the School and the Saint Vincent Grammar School;
S.(d) An additional fee of forty-eight cents per term shall be paid with
the tuition fee. This fee shall be equally apportioned to the
School Games Fund and the Library Fund. Every pupil shall be
entitled to the use of the Library and the Games equipment;
(e) All fees shall be payable into the Treasury in advance and a
certificate from the Headmistress that the pupil has passed the
entrance examination shall be presented at the Treasury before
payment shall be received.

3. Regulation 26 of principal Regulations revoked and replaced.
Regulation 26 of the principal Regulations is hereby revoked and replaced as
follows --
"26. REMISSION OF FEES. The G6vernor shall have power to order,
on the recommendation of thb Headmistress, the refund or the remission of
-the whole or of a portion of a term's fees as he may think reasonable :







82

Provided that where the period of absence in respect of which any such
recommendation is made shall be less than one-half of a term no such
refund or remission shall be ordered,"

4.- Revocation. The following Regulations are hereby revoked
(a)- Regulation~26 (a) of the principal Regulations as replaced by section 3
of the St. Vincent Girls High School (Amendment No. 2) Regulations,
1942, (S. R. & 0. 1942, No. 65) ;
(b) The St. Vincent Girls' High School (Amendment) Regulations, 1944, (S.
R. & 0. 1944, No. 24);
(c) Regulation 21 (a) of the principal Regulations as replaced by:section 3
of the St. Vincent Girls' High School (Amendment No. 2) Regulations,
1948, (S. R. & 0..1948, No. 84);
(d) The St. Vincent Girls' High School (Amendment No. 3) Regulations, 1948,
(S. R. & 0. 1948, No. 100);
(e) The St. Vincent Girls' High SchooL (Amendment) Regulations, 1949, (S.
R. & 0. 1949, No.,33).


'Made by the Governor in Council under section 29 of the Education Ordinance,
1937, this f3th day of March 1951.
HENRY H. WILLIAMS,
Acting Clerk of Executive Council.


Approved by Resolution of the Legislative Council under section 30 of the
Education Ordinance, 1937, this 5th day of April 1951.

HENRY H. WILLIAMS,
Acting Clerk of Legislative Councit;
(E 3/1946).


PRINTED BY THE GOVERNMENT PRINTER, AT THE GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE,
KINGSTOWN, ST. VINCENT.
S / [ Price 8 cents.
.1951.








MINUTES OF MEETING OF LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL HELD AT THE COUNCIL
CHAMBER, ON THURSDAY THE 5TH OCTOBER, 1950, AT 10 A.M.

PRESENT
His Honour W. F. COUTTS, M.B.E., Administrator, President,
The Honourable P.. C. LEWIS, Crown Attorney,
S " .C. B. GIBBS, Acting Colonial Treasurer, ,
O. D. BRISBANE, Nominated Member,
S E. A. C. HUGHES, Nominated Member,
G. A. MCINTOSH, Member for Kingstown,
E. DUNCAN, Member for North Windward,
E. JOACHIM, Member for Leeward,
S. F. BONADIE, Member for South Windward.

ABSENT
The Honourable W. A. HADLEY, Nominated Member, (Excused.)
S. G. DEFREITAS, Member for the Grenadines.

1. PRAYERS.
The meeting was opened with prayer.

2. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES.
The Minutes of the meeting of the Council held on the 30th March, 1950, were
taken as read and were confirmed.

3. ANNOUNCEMENTS.
President-: There are three matters on which I wish to touch this morning.
The first is in connection with the School Bfiilding Programme, abcut which I
think Honourable Members would like to know something.
As far as this is concerned, you will observe that the .Kingstown Senior School
is practically complete, :ind this is being built at a cost less than was anticipated,
whlch means that it will be possible to continue with work on other schools.
The Barrouallie School is also practically complete,. and las been built, on a
plan by the Executive Architect, of landcrete blocks. It looks a fairly good
building, and I hope you will be satisfied-with it. The cost estimated at 2,000
approximately, or $9,600, is surprisingly low for a building to accommodate 350
pupils, which works out at approximately $28 or just under 6 per pupil place.
This, as you know, is very much less than buildings of this nature are estimated to
cost.now, and, as far as I know, is about one half of the actual cost of construction
of buildings in other Colonies. If this type of building can be kept up, we would
be able to tackle the Rural School Building Programine for a fair number of
schools. I have asked the team which got together on this landcrete construction
to move over to Bequia to commence work on the school there, and thereafter to
tackle the Biabou school.
In other wgrds, I propose that this team should move around in a circle from
Barrouallie to Bequia to Biabou, and so on.







We have asked for a certain amount of money from either Colonial
Development and Welfare Funds, or from the Central Windward Islands Reserve.
Approval for this has not yet been received, but at any rate, we have enough money
to continue with Bequia School, which to my mind is the worst of all, and I have
seen practically all the primary schools in the Island.
The second item is the opening of the new Legislative Council of Trinidad on
the 20th October, at which the Governor of Trinidad has invited myself and the
Senior Elected Member of Council, the Honourable G. A. McIntosh to attend.
Subject to your concurrence we intend to accept this invitation as I think that
on an occasion like this it will be a good gesture for us to go. Expenses in
connection with this visit will be'paid by Trinidad, this Colony bearing the cost of
passages only.
At the same time His Excellency has suggested that I- take the opportunity of
discussing our Hydro-Electric Scheme with Brigadier Mount and Mr. McLeod-
Smith who will also be in Trinidad, and I hope to be. able to do this, and I hope
Brigadier Mount will pay us a visit shortly after my return, to. St. Vincent to discuss
the whole matter with you before any final decision is taken.
The third is a minor point on procedure on Bills. In the newStanding Rules
and Orders of the Legislative Council regarding the introduction and first reading,
Section (2) of Rule 31. definitely states that Bills are to be introduced without
printing, that is, that Bills for first reading. should not be printed.
I have discussed this point with the. Honourable Crown Attorney who
considers that this might be an oversight in the Rules and Orders, as he felt that
Members might prefer the Bill to beprinted before first reading.
As it happens today- not because we particularly want to carry out this rule,
but because the Printers were busy, you will find that several of the Bills for first
reading have not been printed.
I wculd like the opinion of Members as to whether we should have the bills
printed for first reading or not. If it is their.wish that the bills should be printed,
we will have to amend the Standing Rules and Orders accordingly.
Honourable Member for South Windward : My view is that with the
present position of the Government's finances, I am prepared to agree to do
anything that is going to..be cheaper. I feel that it would be cheaper for the
Colony not to have these._Bills printed for first reading, but for them to be'
typewritten or duplicated in Governinent Office.
Honourable Crown Attorney : The point is that the Bills have to be printed
at'some stage, so it really doesn't matter when they are printed. As the Standing .
Rules and Orders now stand, after the first reading, the bill is then sent to the
printers for printing.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : If the bills have to be printed at. some
stage, I' am of opinion that it would be less troublesome and less expensive, to
print them before first reading. I therefore think that the Standing Rules and
Orders should be amended.
Honourable Member for North Windward : The relevant section is taken
from the draft sent-out by ;he Colonial Office, and I think it relates to private
bills which need not be printed before first reading, but handed in.by private
Members at the Meeting.
Honourable E. A. C. Hughes:, As far as I recollect the procedure to be
adopted is discretionary.








President: From the wording of the Section it is mandatory.
SHofnourable E. A. C. Hughes: It: seems -to me that, as there Honourable
Member: for Kingstown says, there -will not be any particular saving_ by not
printing the bill before first reading. It is very seldom that a bill is thrown out,
and if it isn't, it would have to be printed at some stage. If the bill isn't printed
for first reading, what -work you relieve the printers of will only be put on to some
unfortunate typist.
HIonourable O. D. Brisbane : What Lsee from the Standing Rules and Orders
is that a bill may be read by the Clerk of the Council at first reading without being
printed. The circumstances might arise with no time to have it printed and
according to this section, it could still be introduced. My opinion is that we
should continue as in the past and-endeavour to have all bills printed at first
reading.
Honourable E. A. C. Hughes : There is another point to be considered. It
might be necessary to take a bill through all its stages at one meeting and this
could only be done if the particular Bill is printed.
Honourable Member for Leeward : The bills have to be printed in any case,
aand I consider they should be printed for first reading.
President : It is the general- feeling of Hoiiourable Members that the Bill
should be printed, and-that alj bills coming up for first reading should be printed.
HIonourable Crown Attorney : I will draft an amendment to Section 31 :(2) of
'the Standing Rules and Orders. -
S4. ~NOTICES OF MOTIONS.
There were no notices of Motions.
5. PETITIONS.
There Were no Petitions. -
6. PAPERS.
Honourable Crown Attorney : I beg leave to lay the following papers on the
table:-
Council Paper No:. 26' of 1950-Annual Report on Prison Department, 1949.
Council Paper No. 27 of 1950-:Annual Report on Labour Department, 1949.
Council Paper No. 28 of 1950-Annual Report on Social Welfare Department,
1949.
.Council Paper No. 29 of 1950-Post- Office' (AmendmentNo. 4) Regulations,
1950.
Council Paper 'No. 30 of 1950-Minutes of Meeting of Finance Committee,.
'30th MIay, 1950. .
Council Paper No. 31 of 1950. Minutes of Meeting of.Finance Committee,
13th June, 1950.
Council Paper No. 32 of 1950-Dangerous Drugs (Application) Order, 1950.
SCouncil Paper No. 33 of 1950-Colonial Hospital (Amendment No. 2) Rules,
1950. "
Council Paper No; 34 of 1950-Report; on the-searci 'for Uranium in St.
Vincent. -
In Typescript :
Reports on the First and Second Magisterial DistrictS for the year 1949.







QUESTIONS.
President.: I now call upon the Honourable Member for Kingstown to ask
the questions standing in-his name.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : Ydur Honour, Honourable Members of
Council, I ask permission to askthe. following questions standing im my name:-
1. Will Government please state what-further advice has been received from
the Secretary of State for the Colonies concerrfing methods of raising
money for a Slum Clearance Scheme since it has been pointed out t6 him
that his previous suggestions were unworkable?,
Reply: None.
2. Will Government please state if -the suggestion put up by the Methodist
Church Authorities for obtaining money for Slum Clearance in- St. Vincent
has yet been investigated, and if so, whether the scheme is workable in St.
Vincent? --
Reply: Yes, but it is not workable in St. Vincent.
I would like to add for Honourable Members' information that the scheme-
as such really means a loan proposal whereby a number of small investors
will invest in the loan; and it will be noted from the second Water Supply
loan that small investors' do not wish to invest, as none came forward in
that connection. For that reason I do not think the Methodist Scheme is
workable.

Hon'ble Member for Kingstown : Is it Government's intention to carry on with
the lottery?
Reply: The latest reply-from the Secretary of State is that he cannot, or will not
agree to State lotteries.
3. Will Government please state whether the proposed Committee for the
purpose of surveying the system of Taxation in the Colony has been set up?
If so has any report been received?
Reply: A Committee has been appointecd, but as 'it was created primarily to-
investigate the possibility of reducing taxation, members felt that there
was little point in meeting until the financial position of the Colony
became more stable, and so no report has been received.
4., Will Government please take steps to protect the dangerous corner on the
Camden.Park Road near the dam?
Reply: The Honourable Member's attention is drawn to the reply to a similar
question by the Hoflourable Member for Leeward giien at the meeting of
this Council on the 17th July, 1950.
5. Will Government please lay before this House information respecting the
monthly amounts of Rum taken out of Bond by Liquor Dealers from 1st
January, 1S49 to the end of June, 1950; and the amounts used for-the
purpose of making Bay Rum for the same period?
Reply: Statement showing Rum removed from Bond and Quantity used for
Manufacture of Bay Rum during the period 1st January, 1949 to 30th Juie,
1950 ;


7








Total Quantity for T otal Quantity for
MIonth Quantity sold Bay Rum Quantity sold Bay Rum
Proof Gallons Proof Gallons Proof Gallons Proof Gallons
1949 1950
January 4858-2 636-9- 2850-5 25-8
February 3725.9 1192*8 2678-1 nil
March 2891-6, 841-9 29295 51-3
April 3289-9 1364;0 3555-6 53-6
May 2670-9 665-6 2959-4 nil
June 4862-7 786-5 1954-9 nil
July 2905-5 813-7
August 3678-4 435-9
September 4200-7 1067-2
October 1851-8 463-7
-November. 5505-5 1645-2
December 6697-5 1576-7
6. Will Government please state the amount of duty collected" for Rum sold
for the purpose of making Bay Rum for 1949 when the duty was 1/- a
gallon, and the amount of duty collected on rum sold for the same purpose
since it has been raised to 5/- a gallon, to the end of June, 1950.
SReply: Amount collected at the rate of 24- cents per gallon in 1949-$2,605.68.
Amount collected to the end of June 1950 at $1.20 per gallon-$938.64.
7. Will Government please say whether, the idea of raising the duty from 1/-
to 5/- a gallon was considered from a health or revenue point of view? If
from a health point of view, please state reasons.
Reply: From revenue considerations.
8. Will Government please ascertain for the information of this House, what
other Colonies in the West Indies use Brucine for denaturing Rum used in
the manufactfire of Bay Rum?
Reply: British Guiana.
9. Will Government please consider the advisability of collecting the Ticket
Duty at the Treasury instead of by the transport agents as at present?.
Reply: This matter has been discussed by Executive Council on several occasions
and it has always been agreed that the present arrangement serves'the
interests of the general public in the best way possible.
10.- Will Government please.investigate the possibility of making arrangements
for renters of Crowd Lands to pay their rents at District Revenue Offices, -
as complaints have been made that it creates a hardship by the present
arrangement whereby all payments have got to be made in Kingstown?
Reply: Rents for Crown Lands are at present collected by the Crown Lands
Bailiffs at the District Revenue Offices. /
11. Will Government please say how soon it is intended to complete the work
S started on the approach to the Council Chamber from the gate to the steps
Sin the Court House Yard?
Reply: The Honourable Member's attention is drawn to a reply to his question on
the same subject given at a meeting of this Council on the 15th May, 1950.
The position is this that we cut out from the Estimates for 1950 the






48 .-

amount put in by the Superintendent of Works -for all roads. Therefore,
we have no money-this year to complete this work. The Superintendent of
Works has, however, reinserted the arffount in his draft Estifmates for 1951
under repairs of streets in Kingstown.
12. Government having stated in reply to my-question in December, 1949, that
the people of this Colony come under the provisions of the Atlantic
Charter with regard to Freedom of Religious Worship, will Government
please say if that .includes the right to establish a religion of their own?
Reply: Yes, but that does not preclude the right of a- Government, in what it
.considers the best interests of law and, oider, public health and morality,
to prohibit cults which may be subversive of such interests.
-13. Is Government aware of the fact that the Spiritual Baptists held their.
patronal feast in Georgetown last year (1949) and was given police
protection by the then Superintendent of Police, Major D. S. Cozier? .
S Reply: A procession was held in Georgetown on the 26th June, 1949. About 2000
men and women attended, women dressed in blue skirts and white o prors
with white skull caps and men in.loose whiti robes. The majority of those
taking part were openly declared by all bystanders to be Shakers ". The
police did-accompany the procession, but in this.instance, as in the case of
all processions, the-police ,were impartial guardians of law arid-order, whose
duty was to prevent breaches of the peace, either. by the persons taking'
part in the procession, or-by other persons who might be opposed to the
procession. They in no sense acted as protectors of the procession.
14. Will Governiment please state why these religionists were prevented from
holdihg a similar-procession this year?
Reply: Application by letter dated the 19th June, 1950, signed by a Mr. McDonald
Williams, describing himself as a pastor" of 'f Spiritual Baptists ", was
.received, for a procession through the streets of Kingstow- f6r 2 hours on
the 25th June, 1950. Nothing was known, of this group except that they
were commonly accepted as "Shakers". The 'application was refused on
the grounds that an unorganised body of personss sought to take charge of
the streets of Kingstown foi 2 hours for unspecified purposes.:Furthermore,
-as. this group was openly declared to be "Shakers operating under
another title, there was reason to apprehend a breach of the peace, namely
that a Shakers Meeting as forbidden by law, might arise'.
15. Will Government lease quote the law under which the Superifltendeit of
Police acted in preventing this Religious Body-from carrying on a peaceful,
procession, and say whether the Crown Law Officer was consulted-in the
step taken to suppress religious freedom in this case, by preventing a
peaceful' religious procession?
S Reply: All processions, religious or otherwise, are subject to the control of the
Police as long as the public highway is used. Any control so imposed is not
the suppression of religious freedom, but merely intended to preserve law
and order. There is authority for this control in both Ancient Law 'and
Case Law e.g.--
SIn. the case of Winterbottbin vs. Lord Derby, 1-867, it was- held, that a
person cannot insist on. his right to a highway. Police are guardians of
highways arid byways and have power to close roads. .


- ''**'







SThe general right of. peace officers to take. action to prevent an
apprehended breach of the peace is accepted :
Wise vs. Dunning..
-- -~-t Lansbury vs. Riley.
Where a crowd rendered a highway-less commodious a conviction for
obstruction was upheld :
Homer vs. Cadman.
-Ani'unauthorised obstruction to the annoyance of the King's subjects
Sor doing any act which renders a highway less commodious is an indictable
nuisance at common.law :
Rex vs. Cross.
S,,i inp'ihymns and drawings a crowd mnay amount to an obstruetionf of
the highway-:
Black vs. Holmes.
"There are also provisions in.tocal: legislation setting out the duties of
the police in such, cases : e..g- Section 12. of Jhe Police Ordinance, 1947,
Section 120 of Cap. 14, and theMotor Vehicle and Road Traffic Ordinance,
1940.
Generally all laws affecting the iights- of individuals to the use of the
highway tend to preserve thee principle, that no individual-has- a greater
prescriptive right than his neighbour, and that no.one'must use a highway
in. such, a manner as to hinder anyone else in his normal use of the
highway. i
I notice, Honourable Members, that this reply has not coveredthe
point as to whether the Crown Officer was consulted. The answer to this
is "No ). -
.16, Willi Government- -please say- if' it had been the intention of the
Superintendent of' Police to create a: disturbance among peaceful citizens
had they proceeded, to process through the streets in an orderly manner?
Reply: It is the duty of the Superintendent of.Police to. maintain; order at all
times, and it cannot be assumed.that he would himself deliberately fomeat
a disturbance.
17.- (a) Will Government. please say if the following Religious Bodies are
recognised'by Government.:-
1. The Methodist Church
2. -The Salvation Army.
S3." The Seventh Day Adventists
4. The Plymouth Brethren
5: The New Testament :Church of God
6. 'The Pentecostal Assembly
7.. The Co-operative: Baptist Mission of North America.
(b) What constitutes recognition of a church in St. Vincent?
Reply: (a)' YeS, they are recognised'by Government only for the purposes of the
SMarriage Ordfiiance.
S(b) There is rothing.in thte St. Vincent law which lays down conditions
Sunder which a. religious denomination may be recognized in the
Colony other than for the purposes of the Marriage, Ordinance.







A-i18. Will Government please say if the Holy Rollers of America, would be
acknowledged and allowed to conduct worship in the Colony?
Reply: Government has no knowledge of the Holy Rollers of .America and it is
therefore unable to- say whether the body would be allowed to conduct its,
activities ii the Colony.
-19. Will Government please-say what religions are prohibited in this Colony
and why?
SReply: There is no list of prohibited, religious bodies in the Colony.
20. Will Government please say if it is true that the Roman Catholic Church is
to be allowed to carry on Idolatry at some near future date throughout the
streets of Kingstown?
Reply: This question is out of order under section 14 (5) of S.R. & O. No. 60 of
1950.
21. Will Government please lay on this table copies of recent reports sent to
the Secretary of State concerning Shakerism?
Reply:,The reply is in the negative, under the provisions of section 14 (7) of S.R.
& O. No. 60 of 1950.
President: I now call upon the Honourable Member for Leeward to ask the
questions standing in his name.
Honorable Member-for Leeward: Your Honour, Honourable -Members, I
request permission to ask the following questions standing in my name :-
1. Will Government please say, what is at present being done to control the
increasing dangerous erosion which is taking place at Coulls Hill and Rose
Bank?
Reply: The Agricultural Department is carrying put to the best of its ability soil
erosion measures in the Coulls Hill area, and the -local. inhabitants have
expressed their willingness to co-operate in every way. Final plans
cannot, however, be made until- those persons whose properties are
Affected have been moved to other sites.
Alternative plots are now being sought.
2. Will Government please take early steps to erect a bridge at Grove River in
the Cumberland Valley?
Reply: A foot-bridge exists at Grove. It is not-p6ssible to- provide a bridge for
vehicular traffic 'during 1950. This.can be considered during the 1951
Budget Session.
3. Will Government please state the cause for -the delay in extending the
town boundaries at Barrouallie?
Reply: Commissioners have been appointed under the chairmanship of the
Honourable Member for--Leeward for the purpose of ascertaining and
fixing the boundaries of the town of Barrouallie. Government hap not yet
received their report, without which no further action, can be taken.
4. In view of the hardship which the people of Coulls Hill have been
undergoing in the' past to receive letters, and the extra hardship caused by
the removal of the Post. Office to Spring Village, will Government please
take steps to give some measure of consideration by renting, the house at
Cumlberland, which is in a. more central position, and which is available
for hire.







49,.

Reply: In view of the. fact that the District Postmasters and Postmistresses are
paid only-sm'all allowances for part-time duties, Government's policyy as.
regards District Post Offices has been to pay the District Postmasters or
Postmistresses a token rent for the use.ofa portion of their own houses as
District-Post Offices.
No change to'this system is recommended as it would be impossible to
obtain the services of suitable persons-at the salaries available, if they had
to perform these duties away from their residences.
As stated in the reply.to a question by the Honourable Member at the
meeting of this Council oni the 20th October, 1949, it is felt that the people
of Coulls.Hill are not greatly inconvenienced by the placing of the Post
Office at its present site.

President: I now call upon the -Hbnourable Member for South Windward to
ask the questions standing in his name.
Honourable Member for South Windwvard:. Your Honour, IHonourable
Members, I beg leave-to ask the following questions standing in my name:-
1. Will Goveinment please state what is the present position as regards the
new Biabou Primary School to be built?
Reply: The Biabou School is among the first five on the priority list of the Colony's
School Building Programme. The carrying out of the ]programme is
dependent on the release of funds from Colonial Development and Welfare,
and on the amounts that can be voted from year-to year from Colony
funds.
2. Will Government please state whether or not His Honour the Administrator
pays for the use of Young's Island like any other Civil Servant?
Reply: The Administrator does not pay rental for,the use of Young's Island when
Government House is not available for his use, as among the conditions of
service attaching to the post is included free quarters ".
3.-Will Government please state if the beach at Young's Island may be used
by citizens for the purpose of bathing whether the houses at the said
Island are rented or not?
Reply: The beach may be used if the prior permission of the occupants of the
houses is obtained. If the buildings are unoccupied no person is alloived on
the Island without the permission of the Superintendent of Public Works.
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : Your Honour, I suggest that the replies to
questions be handed to Members before they are read out by Your Honour.

BILLS.
President: I call upon the Honourable Crown Attorney to move the first
reading of the Arrowroot (Amendment) Bill.
Honourable Crown Attorney : I beg leave to move'the first reading of a Bill
for an Ordinance further to amend the AMrowroot Ordinance 1930. 'The objects
of this bill are as follows- .
To amend the principal Ordinance so as to permit :-
(1) Corporations and Partnerships to be Members' of the Arrowroot
Association.








(2) Members of the Association to appoint a representative to the
Association who shall have all powers of a member o0 the Association,
including the right to be elected to the Board of Management.
(3) Small growers to elect district delegates- to represent them on the
SAssociation, and such district delegates to elect one of'their number to
a place on the Board. -
(4) A poll, to be taken at any -meeting when the members demanding the
poll possess onetfifth of the total votes possessed by members present at
the meeting.
(5) All advances made against arrowroot starch delivered to the Association
to be free of interest.
2. -The Governor's powers to appoint three persons, to the Board has been
reduced to two persons as small growers may now elect a representative to the
Board.
Honourable Colonial Treasurer : I beg leave to second the Bill.
SQuestion put.and agreed to.
Bill read a first time:

President : Icall upon the Honourable Colonial Treasurer to move the first
reading of The Public Assistance Bill.
Honourable Colonial Treasurer: Your Honour, Honourable Members, I beg
leave to move the introduction and first reading of a Bill for an Ordinance to
provide for the Administration f Public Assistance to be read a first time. The
objects of this Bill are as follows :--
To repeal the existing Poor Relief Ordinance (Cap. 131) which has been
in existence since 1922 and to provide for the better administration of Public
Assistance in the Colony.
2. While many of the provisions of the old law have been retained in a
modified form, opportunity has been taken to provide for the appointment
of-
(a) A Public Assistance Officer, and
(b) A Public Assistance Board.
3. The functions of the Board are advisory in nature.
Honourable Crown Attorney: I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read a first time.
President : I now call upon the Honourable Crown Attorney to move the first
reading of the Slum Clearance and Housing (Amendment) Bill.
Honorable\ Crown Attorney : I beg leave to move that a Bill for an
Ordinance further to amend the Slum Clearanie & Housing Ordinance, 1946; be
read a first time. The object of this Bill is to amend the Slum Clearance and
Housing Ordinance so as to increase the membership of the Central Housing and
F.i liiiiL Authority from seven to nine and to provide that one of the additional
members shall be ar officer with experience in financial matters.
2. Difficulty has been experienced by the Central Authority in obtaining a
quorum of five members for the transaction of business, and rather- than reduce
the number of the quorum of this body (which exercises considerable power) the
Membership of the Authority has been increased in order to overcome this
difficulty.





I 51


Honourable Colonial Treasurer : I beg leave to second the Motion.
Question put and agreed to.
.Bill read a. first time.
President : I now call upon the Honourable Crown Attorney to moye the first
reading of the Bill for an Ordinance to further amend the Dangerous Drugs
'Ordinance, 1937.
Honourable Crown Attorney :. I beg leave to move the first reading of a Bill
fgr an Ordinance further to amend the Dangerous Drugs Ordinance, 1937. The
object of this Bill is to amend the Principal`brdinance so as to remove the.drug
Amidone (di-2 dimethylamino- : 4-diphenylheptan-5-one), its salts and
any preparation, admixture, abstract dr 'other substance containing any
proportion of amidone'" (the form in which it was previously known) from Part V
of thee'principal Ordinance which applies to drugs which if improperly used are
likely to be productive of ill effects substantially of the same character or nature
or analogous to those produced by morphine or cocaine.
2. This'drug (in its more modern form) is retained in the list of drugs to
which Part V of the- Principal Ordinance applies by virtue of an Order in Council
made.under Section 13 (2) of the Principal Ordinance where it is defined as
"Amidone (6-Dimethylamino--4: 4-diphenylheptan-3-one), its salts and any
preparation, admixture, extract or other substance containing any proportion of
amidone ".
3. The said Order in Council made under Section 13 (2) of'the Principal
Ordinance is to give effect to the Secretary of State's Circular Savingram (2) of
the 18th May, 1950; and a copy of the said Older is attached for facility of
reference.
Honourable Colonial Treasurer : I beg leave to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to..
Bill read a first time.
President : I now call upon the Honourable Colonial Treasurer to move the
first-reading of the General Loan and Stock Bill.
Honourable Colonial Treasurer: Your Honour, Honourable Members, I beg
leave to move that a Bill for an Ordinance to declare the terms and conditions
applicable to Loans authorised to be raised by the Government of St. Vincent and
to provide for the creation of St. Vincent.Stock be read a first time. The objects
of the Bill are to replace existing legislation by more modern legislation which will
render it easier to raise a loan on short notice when conditions on tle Stock
Exchange may be favourable.
2. To enable Stocks to which the provisions of the Colonial Stock Acts apply to
be transferable, by instrument in writing instead of inscription in the Register of
Stock, which method has been found. to be inconvenient and cumbersome.
3. This Bill is based on the Model Ordinance enclosed with the Secretary of
State's circular saving telegram of the 29th"November, 1949.
Honourable Crown Attorney : I-beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read a first time.
President : I call upon the Honourable Crown Attorney to move the first
reading -of the Shops (Hours of Opel ing and En.ployment) (Amendment) Bill.
Hon6urable Crown Attorney i I beg leave to move'the first reading of a Bill
for an Ordinance further to amend- the Shops (Hours of Opening & Employment)


rl4-" I I-" 1%" ""







,Ordinance, 1942. The object of this Bill is to provide for the grant of sick leave to
shop-assistants.
Honourable Colonial Treasurer : I beg leave to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read a first time.
President : I now call upon the Honourable Colonial Treasurer to move the
second reading of the Currency Bill.
Honourable Colonial Treasurer. I beg leave to move that a Bill for an
Ordinance to implement an agreement to provide for a uniform currency in the
Eastern Group of the British Caribbean Territories be read a second time.
Honourable Crown Attorney : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Honourable Colonial Treasurer : Mr. President, Honourable Members, I beg
leave to move that this Council resolve itself into a Committee of the whole Council
to consider the Bill clause by clause.
Honourable Crown Attorney : I beg to second the motion.

In Committee.
Clause 2-Interpretation.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 3-Agreement to have the force of law. First Schedule.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 4-Bcard to have sole right to issue and re-issue currency notes and coin in
the Colony.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 5-Issue and form of currency notes and coin.
Honourable Member for South Windward : Does this mean that we will soon
have new notes and coin issued for use in the Colony.
President : I don't know how soon the new currency will be issued. The
Currency Board has just been set up, and the notes and coins will have to be made.
Honourable E. A. C. Hughes : This Ordinance will not come into effect as
soon is it is-passed by Council. It will come into operation by proclamation.
Honourable Crown Attorney : I beg to move the insertion in Section 5 of a
subsection to be numbered (3), and that the present subsection (3) be renumbered
(4), as follows :-
(3) Coin issued under this Ordinance shall be of the denominations and
weight and be made of such metal or metals as are specified in the
Second Schedule as amended from time to time under the provisions of
subsection (4) of this section and be of such form and design as may be
prescribed.
Honourable E. A. C. Hughes : Under section 5 of the first schedule to the
Ordinance the shares of participating Colonies are set out. Can anybody say how
this division came about and on what basis it was arrived at?
The percentage payable to St. Lucia, for instance, appears to be out of
proportion.







President : I am afraid I cannot enlighten Members on this point. I take it
that you would like me to make enquiries as to why this particular division was
made.
Honourable E. A. C. Hughes: I am wondering whether we should pass the
Bill now. If there is no urgency I suggest that we leave it in Committee until this
point is cleared up. I observe, however, thafthis Council has already approved
the Report of the Currency ,Conference, which has been embodied in the
Agreement.
President : The only thing is that we have been receiving enquiries from
other Governments,regarding the passage of the Bill.
Question that Clause 5 as amended Stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.
Clause .6-Legal tender.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 7-Conversion of currency notes and coin into sterling and vice versa.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause, 8-Meeting of deficiencies in Fund or Income Account.
Question put and agreed to.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : Does Government here mean Governor-
in-Council.
Honourable E. A. C. Hfughes : No. The Currency Board here takes the place
of the Executive Council.
Clause 9-Demonetisation of currency notes and coin.
Question put and agreed to.
Honourable Member for South Windward: When currency ceases to be legal
tender, will we be able to get payment for the value of the currency held?
Honourable E. A. C. Hughes : The Currency Board will be responsible for
having all currency withdrawn at the same time.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 10-Bills and notes payable to bearer on demand.
Honourable Crown Attorney : I beg to move an amendment to subsection
(2) in line-4 by replacing the words of a. sum between or '' and equal" by
the words to a fine ".
Question that Clause 10 as amended stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.
Clause 11-Currency Note under this Ordinance.
Honourable Crown Attorney-: I beg to move that the following amendments
be made to section 11 :-
The words the expressions should be added at the end of the second
line. Under subsection (b) after 1936" add and in section 2 of the
Counterfeit Currency (Convention) Ordinance, 1937 ", and add a marginal
note No. 5 of 1937 ".
Question that Clause 11 as amended stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.
Clause 12-Regulations.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 13-Saving.
Question put and agreed to.







Clause 14-Commencement.
Question put and agreed to.
President: Iin view of the point raised by the Honourable Mr. Hughes, 1
suggest that we rise at this stage and leave the Bill in Committee. In the
meantime I will ask Honourable Members to read the Agreement very carefully,
and to advise me as soon as possible pf other points they wish to take up.
Honourable Crown Attorney : I beg to move that the Committee rise, Council
resume, and the presiding member report to the Council.
President : Honourable Members, I beg to. report that the Currency Bill was
considered in Committee of the whole Council, and left in the Committee stage.

MOTIONS,
President : I now call upon the Honourable Member for North Windward to
move the motion standiitg in his name.
Honourable Member 'for 'North Windward Your Honour, Honourable
Members, I rise to move the following Motion :
WHEREAS the Commission on the Unification of the Public Services have
stated in their Report their conclusion that a unified service is at best no
more than a half-way house between separate services for each territory and
a federal service ", and it is their opinion that it is an indifferent substitute
for the latter ";
AND WHEREAS in the Report it is further pointed out that a "Public
Service Commission will" in the case of such unified service, "have no
control over the scope of any service that may be unified or the number of
personnel employed in it, and that consequently there will be no assurance
that any unified service will be well adapted to the needs of the unit on
which unification is based, namely, the Caribbean area;
AND WHEREAS steps are now being taken to effect early establishment of
a Federation of the British Caribbean territories, whereby a federal service
would automatically come into existence;
BE IT THEREFORE RESOLVED that this Council is of the opinion that
unification of the Public Services should not be proceeded with as a step
preliminary to Federation, and declines taking further action in connection
with such unification.
I should not have to talk as' much- as I must today if the Civil Service
Association had not sent in to Government a.Memorandum, a copy of which I think
is in the hands of Members, strongly recommending acceptance of the Report of
the Commission on the Unification of. the Public Services. This Memorandum
states in paragraphs 2 and 3 :-
"2. The Association has considered the motion tabled by the Honourable
E. Duncan, Member for North Windward, urging that the Legislative Council
of the Colony should decline taking further action in connection with such
unification."
"3. As the proposals for the Unification of Public Services are an
integral part of the recommendations of the Standing Closer Association
Committee's Report, which was.accepted by the Legislative Council at its
meeting held on the 17th July, it would be somewhat difficult to reconcile
such acceptance with a decision to "decline taking further action" in
connection with the Unification of Public Services Report."






S55

-So says the Memorandum, but I would like to say that the proposals for the
Unification of the-Public Services are not an integral part of the recommendations
of the Standing Closer Association Committee (which for convenience I will refer
to as the S.C.A.C.). In fact, the S.C.A.C. Report finds only one proposal in the
report of the Commission on the Unification of Public Seivices which it accepts as
workable. I refer to section 101 of the S.C.A.C. Report which reads as follows :-
Our-task in relation to this matter is much simplified by the availability
of the Report on the Unification of the Public Services under the
Chairmanship of Sir Maurice Holmes. For the- purpose of this part of our
own Report, we invite attention particularly to Chapter V of the Holmes
Report regarding the Public, Service Commission and Chapter VI, which
discusses from the point of view of the Holmes Commission the advantages
of Federation over Unification "
Here.'we see that the only proposal adopted by the S.C.A.C. is that for a Public
Service Commission simply because it would be essential under Federation The
only suggestion made by the Holmes Report is that centring around the Public
Services Commission; and my Resolution today is based on Chapter VI of that
Report.
It is remarkable that this Report that came out without any summarised
recommendations and which in this respect is the queerest Report I have ever
seen, -says, under Section 23, that the reason why there is no summarised
recommendation is that if they attempted to summarise, the whdle thing would be
misleading.
Now, when in this Council Chamber I appeared before Sir Maurice Holmes, I
told him that the whole question bristled with difficulties, so I am not surprised
that the Commission have presented a Report which, if they attempted to
summarise, would be misleading. If the summary of the Report would be
misleading, we must take it then that the Report is misleading, and again, I say,
that the S.C.A.C. could find only one recommendation, and that is for the
appointment of a Public Services Commission to work as a consultative body to
assist the Federal Government.
There is a difference between Unification and Federation, and the Commission
found it necessary to call attention to this in paragraph 4 of Chapter I of their
Report, which reads :-
"A large number of our witnesses assumed that the unification of a
service was the same thing as its federation. This of course is not the case.
The latter expedient presupposes the existence of a federal Government and
a decision to make the service in question a federal one. The control of such
a service is vested in the federal Government and the service is so organised
and directed as to carry out, not the several and maybe divergent policies of
the constituent Governments, but the single policy of the federal
Government. Unification is a very different matter. It involves no
constitutional changes. It leaves the Governments of the several colonies
free to pursue their individual policies, and derogates from their powers only
in so far as such-functions as fall to them.in regard to recruitment to, and
promotions and transfers in, unified services are taken out of the hands of
the individual Governments and transferred to a regional executive
authority."
What I realise is troubling the minds of the. Civil Servants is that they think
that this Resolution aims at producing conditions inimical to their interests. But
if we turn to Section 105 of the S.C.AC. Report, we find this statement :





56

We wish to make it clear that we do not regard the federal and the
remaining local services as being in any way watertight- compartments; and
we anticipate there will be no bars to transfers between them, when it is in
the interests of the. public service and of the individuals concerned that such
should take place; For this and other reasons we foresee that the Public
Service Commission, in addition to serving the needs of the federal public
service, may usefully also be available; in the manner proposed by the"
S Holmes Commission, to assist Unit Governmepts regarding non-federalised
Services. By this means we expect that a salutary unifying influence will be
S exerted throughout the region and throughout all- services, which.cannot fail
to be of general benefit by enhancing the attractiveness .of thepublic service
and making it easier to place officers in- the\posts for.which they are best
suited."
While under Federation there is to be a Federal Service, the existence of a..
S Public Services Commission will-result in- exerting a unifying influence throughout
the whole region, and the Civil Servants need not be afraid that they will not get'
their share of the benefits which will-be coming,from Federation.
In proceeding with their-'discussion,- the Holmes Commission, Came up with
certain difficulties like housing conditions. They thought quite contrary to thf "
view of thi amalgamated Civil Service Association of the West Indies; they)
thought differently from that body and they said that in the-light of consideration
of what should be the criterion for. admission for a post to a unified service, it was
their opinion that the following services were now iipe for unification :
Administration,
Agriculture,
Civil Aviation,
Forests,
Legal and Judicial,
Medical,
Police,
Postal & Prisons.
I refer to this aspect of the question to show that, contrary to the expectations
and hopes of the Civil Service Association, the Commission found that they had to
make suggestions for just a limited number of Services, and that in those cases
their recommendations are limited to recruitment and promotion to the posts set -
Sout in Appendix III of the Report. .
S.Now tle S.C.A.C. admits that it is essential that there should be a Civil Service
Cominission and this .Civil Service Commission will be responsible to the Federal
Government. Now, if the Civil Service Commission is established under present
conditions, that Commission would not be responsible to any of the Legislatures in
the area, and that was one of the weaknesses of the scheme that I pointed out to
Sir Maurice Holmes, and because of that weakness the proposal is unacceptable
under present conditions. But, as I have said before, whether it is unification or
whether it is federation, a Public Service Commission must be there. It is
essential, says the S.C.A.C., in order to keep the Civil Service out of politics and to
advise the Federal Government.
In connection with the unification of Administrative pnzts, paragraphs 52-55 of
the Commissibn's Report deal with the queS ions of how officers are to be selected,
which form should their training take, and how the cost of training is to be met.






S57

On the question of cost of training, a formidable barrier is-encountered, as is
pointed out in-paragraph 55 of the Commission's Report-: "Failing federation
and failing assistancefrom Colonial Development & Welfare Funds the cost would
need to be met by contributions by individual Colonies in agreed proportions."
Now that is one of the difficulties faced by the Commission and it is left
unsolved. The absence of specific recommendations in the Report is confusing,
and paragraph 98 of the Cbmmission's Report has this to say:
S" There is, howevere, one problem for which a common solution must be
'oundi before.unification can be regarded as a practical proposition, and that
is the problem of enabling Officers transferred from one Colony to another
to obtain living accommodation on reasonable terms."
And in paragraph 99 they go on to say :
"It is clear to us that, in these circumstances, unification of the services
will be defeated unless a solution can be found for the housing problem."

We know that the housing problem is a difficult one; we know that at present
it is beyond our ability to solve it here in St. Vincent, and also in' other Colonies of
the British Caribbean, and so."that alone is sufficient to'cause us to decide to
,decline.to-go ahy further with this unification.
Whether the questiofi is unification or federation, there has to Je-created an
authority with special powers to deal with Public Services. The Holmes Report
suggested it, and it is significant that that is the only proposal in that Report
which has been accepted by the- S.C.A.C. However,.it is stated in the Holmes
Report that the Secretary of State in his draft despatch of May 1946 contemplated
the setting up of a regional authority. The authority referred to is the one which
has-been designated as the Public Services Commission,'and the Secretary of State
states in that connection that" Such an authority with powers of selection and
posting of officers would be essential to a properly effective 'system of regional
unified services ". and further ".It is certainly not a task which the Secretary of
State could successfully undertake at a distance in respect of purely local staff."
Then in paragraph 8' referring to the- constitutional position 'of the
:Commission, the Report goes on to .ay :
/ "It is an inevitable result ,of this situation that our report is not as
incisive or, in.some-respects, as-detailed as we would wish, and that it
abounds in assumptions and qualifications. We hope, however, that the
main principles of reform which we advocate emerge with .sufficient clarity,,
S aid the, fact that we cannot apply those principles to unforeseeable.
conditions ah~d circumstances does not strike at .the root of our proposals,
since that is a tasl' which will naturally devolve upon the-Public Service
*.. Commission."

.Th Commjssion were facing their task in the dark and that is why no
summary of their recommendations has been appended to the Report, and they
Shave stated A mere Summary would therefore be more misleading than helpful "
We. have, therefore, no recommendations on which to work./ With no
recommendations, the .Coinmission came. to this conclusion-and it is on that
conclusion that miy Resolution is based- that any system of uliification that falls
short of complete federation is in the meaning of. the word imperfect,- and,- to
Squote.th'e Commission, is at best no more than a halfway house between separate
services for each territory and a federal service."







As regards pre-federal action, the S.C.A.C. has this to say; -
"Before proceeding to consider the several topics in detail, a. general
overriding observation should be made and should be borne in mind at all.
times in the consideration of what follows. The experience of previous
federations has been that federal services do not fare well in the absence
of the unifying, sanction of political federation. The history of the Federal
Council of Australia provides indisputable proof of this fact. The weaknesses
inherent in embryonic federal structures 'and the, services they seek to
administer might encourage the false belief that true federation cannot
improve them and may result; in retarding rather than accelerating a
federal outlook. On the other hind, if one or two services appear to b~e
satisfactorily operating on a sub-federal scale, this might encourage a passive
if not an actively" antagonistic outlook, toward genuine federation. The ideal
as we envisage it, would be that federation and federal' services should: be--
concurrent, though, as We shall later submit, this ideal is not always capable
of practical realization;"

And this is the reply I give to paragraph 4 of the Civil Service Memorandum.
The Holmes Commission took their view backed by the Civil Service Association,, -
but the Rance Commission took the view which I have just read from their report,
and which is contrary to the opinion held by the former. The Rance Report
_shows that it is a dangerous thing to set up pre-federal services before true
federation is established.
I therefore beg.to move that :
WHEREAS the Commission on the Unification of the Public Services have
stated in their Report their conclusion that "' a unified service. is at best no
more than a half-way house between separate services for each territory and
a federal service ", and it is their opinion-that it is an indifferent substitute
for the latter";
AND WHEREAS in the Report it is further pointed out that a "Public
Service Cdmmission will" in the case of such unified service, "have no
control over the scope of any service that may be unified or the number of
personnel employed in it-" and that consequently there, will be no assurance
that any unified'service will be well adapted to the-needs of the unit onwhich
unification is based, namely t.e -Caribbeanf area;
AND WHEREAS steps are now being taken to effect early establishment of
a Federation of the British Caribbean territories, whereby a federal service
would automatically come into existence;
S BE .T THCRE- O.LE REiOL'.E -that this.Council is of the opinion that
unification of tih. PF iilc Services should not be. proceeded -with as a step
. i,:i'ln; y-,-ti Federation and declines taking further action in connection.
with such unification. .

Honouiable Member for Kingstown : Your Honour, Honourable Members of
Council, I rise to second the emotion moved by the Honourable Member for:North
Windward. The S.C.A.C. Committee, while endeavouring to. attempt a very
impartial view, had their doubts as to the intention of the setting up of a Public
Services Commission. A very large minority believed that the intention was to
endeavour to thwart the bringing about-of a .West Iliidia Federation, and it was
the opinion- that lo pre-federal.action, should' be taken;- .. .



,,,~~~~ ~~ .i.D. -. /-....









The S.C.A.C. was of the opinion that the setting up of this Commission after
Federation would have as its object the taking of responsibility out of the hands
of the Federal Government in the task of transferring and promoting members of
the Federal Service. But in the general Service of the individual Colonies we will
see that even when Federation comes, the Federal Government will not take over
from the. Territorial Government, and therefore the whole, scheme of the Civil
Service Association will bristle with difficulties.
The members of the Civil Service are of the opinion that to have a Public
Services Commission set up means that it will provide promotion to the junior
establishment of the Service. But how can we envisage such a thing? While,
members may .be promoted from the small islands to the larger islands, it may
Also have the effect of bringing down from the larger islands less desirable holders
of posts in those islands. And so I do not think that until Federation comes there
is any desirability.of establishing a federal service. When Federation-comes, the
Commission will have that function to perform. and will take care of transfers etc.
in the Federal service.
I cannot see how unification of the services will be helpful now,, knowing
individual islands as I do. I think something has just occurred in St. Lucia -
where it is the feeling that their people should be promoted first. It is the same
.feeling in all the.islands.
'So I think it is a false outlook of the Civil Service Association to think that its
members will be promoted from -island to island. In fact there is no
recommendation from the Civil Service as to how this scheme can be worked out.
The only thing that will solve the problems of the members of a. Federal
Service in these islands is Federation itself. I therefore, take much pleasure in
seconding the motion and ask'Honourable Members to give it consideration, and
-the Civil Service to have patience and wait until the time comes when Federation
takes place.
SHonourable Crown-Attorney: I beg leave to move the following counter-
motion :.
That this Council accepts .the Report of the Commission appointed by
the Secretary of State for the Colonies, under the Chairmanship. of Sir
Maurice Holmes, C.B.E., K.C.B., to consider the question of the Unification of
the Public Services in the British Caribbean Area."
I am afraid that both the mover and seconder of the motion seem to be
.confused in their minds. I understood the motion to mean that the setting up of
a Public Services Commission should not be proceeded with, but I am now forced
to the conclusion that-the object was to criticise the report and to show up what
S the mover considered to be its weak points. What should have been done was to ,
try and convince this Council why it should not proceed with :a Public .Service .
,Commission before Federation.
The Honourable Member pointed out the difference between unification and
federalization of a Service and quoted paragraph 4 of the Holmes Report in
support of his contention. He said that federalization presupposes the existence
of a Federal Government' and the decision to make the service in question- a
federal one. I admit 'that unification of a service is different from its
federalization in that the former process does not involve any constitutional
changes, and leaves the Governments of the several colonies free to pursue their
individual policies. The duties of the Public' Service Commission would be to
perform such functions as may fall to them in regard to recruitment to, promotions
and transfers in a unified service and to this extent the powers possessed by the
Governments of individual colonies will be modified.







To my mind, before'a federal Government is set up, there would certainly be
a great advantage in having a regional authority to deal' with matters of this sort
on a regional as opposed to a colony basis, and this very arrangement, I submit,
would tend to hasten, rather than retard our progress towards federation.
It is interesting to observe that only a few moments ago the Honourable
Members who moved and seconded this motion, respectively, agreed to .the terms of
a Currency Bill which provides for -the Unification of currency throughout the
eastern British Caribbean area. Apparently they had no objection in 'principle
to such a body as a Currency Board (which would be a body with regional scope)
being set up before Federation comes into existence, therefore, I-cannot see how
Honourable Members could logically object in. principle..to the setting up of a
pre-federal Public Service, Commission for the Civil Services of the-individual
Colonies, when it is borne in mind that the work of both the Public Se'rvices
Commission afnd the Currency Board would be on a regional basis. In the: same
way as the Currency Board has been set up and will.function, I submit that the
Public Services Commissioni can be set up to function to the advantage of the
Colonies as a group.
Most of the arguments adduced by the Mover of the Motion against the Civil
Service Memorandum, such as the housing problem, could be applied to other
federal bodies: If you argue that it is impossible to have a unified service on
account of the housing shortage, then the same question would arise on a
federation of the Colonies.
I do not think that the Memorandum by.the Civil Service Association has
been fully appreciated, because the Public Service Commission is intended to be a
Commission divorced from politics, whose functions 'would be to examine the
cases of officers for promotion and transfer in the same way as it would function
uindeir Federation.
The whole point is that the unification is a means of speeding up matters of
promotion etc., in the Civil Service before the Federal Government is set up. If
the Federal Government came into force immediately it may not b 'necessary. to
set up such a Commission before Federation, but pending the coming into,
operation of a Federal-Government such a Commission would be of definite'
advantage in bringing the Colonies closer together in 'matters concerning civil
service personnel afd providing.a broader and more general outlook, th is paving
the way to Federation. You will then get the various Colonies thinking regionally
rather than individually.
We should not question the Commission's Report on the ground that it will
produce difficulties. I think it would be well 'to ask oui'selves the following
question : -Is the report going to-present difficulties now or is it 'g. ig to prove an
advantage before Federation is achieved? I say quite definitely that advantages
will accrue now, because it may be some time before Federation is established, and
-it is well to pave the way now by establishing a Public-Se rvice Comnmissioi 'o that
the experience gained may be available to the Colonies on the establishment of
Federation. I consider that there are great advantages to be gained by the, setting
up of a Public Services Commission, and strongly recommend to this Council
acceptance of the Report of the Commission on the Unification of the Public
Services in the British Caribbean.

Honourable E. A. C. Hughes : Your Honour, I beg leave to second the motion
moved by the Honourable Crown Attorney, and in the first instance I must,
apologise for being a bit obtuse while listening 'to all the arguments arid long
quotations by the mover of the first motion. There is certainly a great deal of -






I ''
confusion in the argument put forward and I am not quite clear as to the reason
fdr th- ,opp6sition td the Holmes Commission Report. Is it that the Honourable
Member is opposing Unificationi as such, or is it that he thinks that unification
will prove a- bar to Fedeiation, or that unification \yill be, of no value-.before
Federation, or is it that he thinks that a Federal Servie in itself will,be a unified
service? If the last premise is the.one on h ich he is basing his argument,: then
I believe I am right ini saying that only a certain number of services .will be
affected by Federation.
The Federal, Government Will 'only federate the Administration,. Judiciary,
Customs; and Post .Office.S&'ivices at some future date. Those are the. only
federal, services that will' come int6 force 6ri Federation, therefore it is not. a.
choice of ".unified or "federal" services. On referring to that portion of the
resolution which reads as follows : "Whereas stlps are now being taken'to effect
early establishment of a Federation of these British Caribbean territories, whereby
a Federal Service would automatically come into existence ", ohe would be inclined
to think that a Federal Ser.ice v. i t ae ithie place of a Unified Service, but that is
not so. The question of unification will still remain to be decided upon.
The Honourable Member maintains that the Holmes- C'omnlssion, .backed by;
the Federation ofCivil Service A'so. iati:n., of the British Caribbean area. believe
that. Unification will b1e no bar to Fe- dl,-.r iiio,, but that the Rance- Committee takes
.the opposite view. if, however, you look, at paragraph 119 of the.Rance Report,
you will see that this is not so. That paragraph, reads as follows :
"We 'turn now. to. the. question of the. unLifiC.tior of the public services.
This has been the u1'l:,lect. of.an exhaustive report by the Commission under
Sir; Maurice -Hoilm, s. and we,,refer, to the matter,.in so far as it directly
irmpigfrii oii federation, ,iinthe' precediri, .Part of this Report;. So far as
c:ncern-, re i.-fedlr':al ctiliQl, and nation in respect of such services as are not
,:-deralisie* iand which therefore remain subject to- local control, we cannot
usefully do more than commend, the findingsof 'the Holmes-Commission to
the careful ponsideratiob of all concerned. In particular, we attach cardinal
importance to thl ci' icptioni of the Pablic, Service Commission, which
cannot fail even ii1 present circumstances to: exercise. a steady and wholly
benefiial ufifyi: in fltuence on the secr ices .with:,which it deals, even while
their, control remains as at present. distributed among numerous different
Governments. In .addition, we wish to draw particular, attention to the
Commission's; observations on the matter of entry into the-public services of
the.region, in particular to its proposals for the establishmnentt;of, a cadet.
grade inl,the administrative services to which university graduates would be -
appointed-.., We ued not reflearse the Holmep Commission's- discussion of
this. matter, but we call attention to paragraph 45 of that Reports, in which it
is stated that-: so long as.a sufficient number, of highly educated West Indians
arg not recruited, direct to the administrative class, so long will it need to be
strengthened by recruitment from outside the region.'., We cannot but agree
with the,.Commission that. the present system makes.it virtually, impossible
-for the young .West Indian with a University degree to consider direct .entry
S into the administrative class of the- public service. It is opportune, that-this
obstacle should be speedily removed, since with the establishment..of :the-
University,College, of the, West Indies there will in a few years be, a supply of.
young men of good. education who might play a valuable part in the publicsb
service,of theregi h, provided that appropriate conditions. of entry.exist. ,
Your Honour,, I do not propose to take up finch more of the time of this:,
Councilin .this.ma.ter. Iagree with the mover of the coun.te-mzotp ,tha9t,,' hia:-I








not the time to go into; various'details of the Report. We are dealing with the'
acceptance in principle or the objection in principle to the Report, and I have
heard nobody-least of all those who attempt to indicate to us that the S.G.A.C is
opposed to the Holmes Report-put, forward any argument that would make me-
feel justified in jettisoning the Report. I cannot see that it will present any bar
to Federation, and I cannot see that Federation will put an end to the necessity
for unification; and as far as the recommendation of the Holmes Report-that a
Public Service Commission 'be established is concerned-that is definitely
recommended by tpe S.C.A.C.
For tTese reasons, I must say that I am no6t convinced that this Council should
callously reject 'on so little grounds the Report of'the Holmes Commission.

COUNCIL ADJOURNED.

COUNCIL RESUMED AT 2.15 P.M.
(Debate on the Counter-Motion continuing) :--
Honourable Member for- South Windward: Your Honour, Honourable
Members of Council, I would-like to make some small contribution to this debate.
-Personally, I must support the counter-motion which -has been put forward by the
Honourable Crown Attorney. I do so because I genuinely feel that it will- be in
the best interests of the entire West Iridies eventually. I have been surprised to
find thatthis. Colony's representative to the S.C.A.C. has practically turned his
back,on the Report which he signed. There is no doubt in my mind that the
S.C.A.C. recommended support for this Report of the -Commission on the
Unification of the Public Services,' and I shall quote or at least emphasize again
one small portion of the section of the Report which was read at length by the
Honourable Mr. Hughes :-
"We cannot but agree with the Commission that the present system
makes it virtually impossible for the young West Indian vith' a University
degree to consider direct entry into the Administrative class of the public
service. It is opportune that this obstacle should be speedily rem ved..................."
Together with that-, Sir, there is this other paragraph from Sir Maurice Holmes'
Report that I would like to read, that is paragraph-45 :-
".45. Local opinion naturally favours the manning. of the public
services by persons of local origin. The filling of the higher- posts in the
a. administrative service by officers from outside the region is, to put it at its
highest, greeted with no show of enthusiasm. But such a course is, and will
remain, inevitable, so long as the present mode of entry .into the
administrative service remains the only mode, for it would be unreasonable
to rely on the lowest 6ierical grades being able, save in very rare instances,
to throw up persons with the attributes looked f6r in, say, a Colonial
Secretary. In other words, so long as a sufficient number of highly educated .
West Indians are not recruited direct to the administrative class, so long will
it need to be strengthened by recruitment from outside the region."
Well, Sir,. I have been trying to understand exactly what was meant by this
paragraph of the Report, and as far as I see, it is giving the West Indies an
opportunity to find in the Service an Administrator or a Colonial Secretary to
take'the place of the English Administrators or Colonial Secretaries-'ho are sent
out to us today, and I feel that'any opposition to this Report- and I am going to
say it strongly as I hope those who are listening today will testify to this-is an
enemy to-the immediate future progress of the West Indies.





63

I have been looking forward for a long time to West Indians filling the
highest offices in the Government Services, and I have been hoping for some time
that some opportunity would be afforded us; and now that this-opportunity
presents itself for us to have the' most able men from the -West Indies to fill such.
posts, I find that there are two'people here trying to oppose it. I cannot blow hot
and cold as regards-Federation. If we are to support Federation we are to support
every means to make it a succcess. In my view one of the greatest obstacles to the
future success of Federation will be the paucity and lack of personnel in many of
: these West Indian Colonies. I' feel that for a long time the Civil Service in the
West Indies has been unable to offer.opportunities for the most brilliant sons of
our soil to join in that Service. 'For a long time those sons could not be expected
to join up in the ordinary junior posts of the Civil Service. They are brilliant and
want expression of their :,rili i,, -c-. I hold the view. expressed by the Commission,
and I feel that it was-wrung out of the unwilling hands of the Colonial Office at
the time when the West Indies needed it most. It has come now and needs men
of foresight and vision t6 accept it and give our people the opportunity which they
have been looking forward to for a great number of years.
It may be that very often you find that matters of such an-intricate nature as
Reports of this-kind,. heavy'and intricate, -are often twisted to make a trap for
fools. Nevertheless- we know what truth is,. and we feel that this is one of the
blessings- afforded to.the West Indies,'and even with my latest breath I am going
to support this Report feeling that I will be-doing my duty not only to the people
of this Island, but to the future inhabitants of the entire West Indies.,
Honourable 0, D. Brisbane: YouirHonour, Honourable Members of Council,
SI must admit that I did not give.the Report on'the Unification of the Public
Services as much study as I should have given it due to the fact that I have been
out of the Colony within recent months. I did have the Report with me though,
also the Report of the S.C.A.C., which latter Report I gave more study than 'the
former. Therefore, when I looked on the Agenda and saw that this matter was to
come up I was somewhat at a disadvantage togdecide what I should do. I have,
however, listened carefully to the arguments put 'forward by both sides for the
motion and the counter-motion, and I can say that I am- convinced that the
counter-motion is right and therefore throw my weight in with it.
I agree that this Report should come into being and should not be thrown out.
In doing so I must refer to one of/the chief arguments on the negative side, that
it is no use bringing in Unification now before Federation. I feel that when
.Federation comes- (I hope it is not far distant) there.will be.further unification
of matters other than Public Services, so that if this Unification is introduced now
S I don't see that it makes any difference.: ..
I ani sorry I cannot put up any more arguments on the subject,but quite-.a lot
>" has been' said by the gentlemen who -have moved and seconded the counter- .
motion, and I am conscientiouslysupporting them.
"Honourable Member for Kingstown : At the time when I seconded the
motion by the Honourable Member for North Windward, I.was not aware of the
counter-motion. I still feel, however, that I have no hard feelings either way; but
Should like to draw attention to Chapter IV, Paragraph 121 of the S.C.A.C. Report
S which says :
"We conclude this Chapter, and our Report, with some observations on,
- the general question of "-pre-federal structures ". There are those who hold
that the time for federation is not yet; and that the wisest course would be to.-
-proceed with joint action in" various directions, such as Customs:-Union, the






64

unification of services, etc. and so gradually build up to a situation in which
the habit of joint action will have become so strong as to enable full political
federation to follow uncontentiously and almost as a matter of course.
Others who hold that full federation is- necessary and practicable now,.
incline to oppose action on pre-federal" lines, on .the ground that such
action may operate to delay federation whether by intention or otherwise."
I said, Sir, I believe this is unworkable,, and in introducing it we will be setting
up a pre-federal structure that will have no authority or mandate from the people,
and will not work. But, as I have already said, I have, no hard feelings in the
matter and I will advise the mover pf the motion to withdraw his motion and if
possible. I would like.to withdraw my seconding of the motion.
Honourable 'Member for North Windward : I_propose to explain the position
I took up on this matter. At once I should say that the fears of the Civil Service
Association as -to transfers' and the like are groundless, As will be seen by
reference to paragraph 105 of the S.C.A.C. Report, the introduction of Federation
will not preclude transfers and so on. As regards the institution of a Public
Services Commission, this Council has already accepted that that be done,
because this Report recommended it and the Report has been accepted.
Therefore, the establishmerit-of a public Services Commission is not in dispute.
What we are called upon to think about is what has been said in the conclusion of
this Report on the Unification of the Public Services, namely that a "unified
service is at best no more than a half-way house between separate services for
each territory and a Federal service "; and, in paragraph 104 of the S.C.A.C.
R-'eport we find that the Corimittee recommended that the Publi. Services
Commission be set up at an early date--
So I say that we have already accepted in principle the establishment of a
Public Services Commission; but I also say that pre-federal action is warned
against, for in paragraph 114 of the S.C.A.C. Report we read :
"Before proceeding to coijider the several topics in detail, a general
overriding observation should be made and should be borne in mind at all
times in the consideration of what follows. The experience of previous
federations has been that federal services do not fare well in the absence
of the unifying sanction of political, federation."
It is because of these two points, and because I do not think it is wise to try to
have a scheme of Unification before Federation, and because I believe Unification
and Federation are not the same, that is:why I have put forward this Resolution.
Federation will not preclude Unification'as will be.seen from paragraph 104 of the
S.C.A.C. Report, and therefore if Federation is, to come about and there are so
many snags and difficulties in Unification at present. I say let us await Federation
before doing anything.
A Public Services Commission if set up now would not have effective control
over the Services in the various units, and becduse'the Public Services Commission
itself will not be responsible to a central organisation, -I say let us wait for
Federation and take no further step in the matter.
I don't think I can make my position any clearer, and to those who think I
have not given sufficient reasons for putting forward my Resolution, I say again
it would not be inimical.,to the interests of the Civil Service if and when
Federation arises, and, in any case, a Public Services Commission has to be formed
Vote taken on Counter-motion-Result : 5-for 1 against, 2 abstentions.
(2 Members of Council were absent)







The Honourable Member for Kingstown having withdrawn his seconding, no
vote was taken on the motion.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : Your Honour, -Honourable Members of
Council, I think I am placed in a very invidious position today in- having to do
something that is unprecedented in the history of St. Vincent. I will ask
permission to move the following motion standing in my name :
In view of the fact that the poorer classes of this Colony are in a
deplorable, poverty-stricken condition; also
In view of the fact that there is rampant dissatisfaction with prevailing
conditions throughout the Colony, and
Because Government is unable to remedy conditions and the masses
have no confidence in Government, and Religion being the only means
whereby these depressed people can find comfort in their misery, and as the
Superintendent of Police and His-Honour the Administrator have colluded to
deprive these people of their right to religious freedom in th6 Colony;
BE IT RESOLVED that this Council put forward the people's Petition to the
Secretary of-State for the Colonies for the removal of the Superintendent of
Police and His Honour the Administrator, before these depressed people,
finding no relief from these disadvantages resort to desperation for relief.
Well, Sir, I am going to ask-for an amendment to this motion.
At a meeting of this Council on the 13th April, 1939, the following motion was
introduced by me : That the Shakerism Ordinance be amended to define what
Shakerism is ", and I asked permission and.was allowed an amendment to read as
follows: "That the Shakerism Ordinance'1912 be repealed". The request was
allowed and put to the vote with the following result : -That motion was passed
unanimously and according to Law this Council-should have proceeded to repeal
the Shakerism Ordinance. But I understand that through the influence of the
Churches in St. Vincent which s2nt in a petition to the Secretary of State, no
action was taken in the matter.
In 1944 I put the following question to Government : "Please say whether
the inhabitants of this Colony are allowed to enjoy freedom of religious worship?"
The reply from Government was : "The answer is in the affirmative."
In every instance I have been told that the Government of This Colony is in
favour of freedom of religious worship for the people, nevertheless, there have
been so many cases where they have been arrested and put in prison for serving
God in their own way. I feel that,everybody should be allowed to serve God in.
the way that they feel is best.
There are other questions. I have put in the interest .of the people so as to
prevent them from committing an offence because when a law is on the Statute
.book it has to be enforced. Government cannot tell what Shakerism is. I am not
interested in Shakerism, but what I want to see is that Government takes a sober
view of the matter, and let people have a regular way of serving God, so long as it
is in keeping with law and order.
Some time ago we had a conference comprised of those persons interested in
having their own kind of worship and sections of the community from all over the-
island came. At that conference we formed what we call the Spiritual Baptist
Church and elected certain office holders. Mr. McDonald Williams was elected
Pastor-in-Charge, Myself and others were endeavouring to stamp out, Shakerism
and were giving to the Church that charter to see that these practices were -not
parried out. There is no definite body that could be called Shakers, but these







people, could be members of another church who would-get, together and have a
Shakers' Meeting. But now that they have been distinctly brought out as a
distinct body, they want to -have some identification of their ovyn, so that' they
could be recognized as a reli'gipus body. Under the law there-is no need to come--
to this Councilfor recognition.
Last year the Spiritual Baptists decided to have a feast in honour of their
Patron Saint, John the Baptist, and it was well carried out at Georgetown, Feeling
afterwards that everybody realized that they were an organised body-4nd not just
Shakers, they made application in the same way this year to. be allowed to hold
their feast. Unfortunately, however, we have a. ned officer at the head of the
Police Department, and that officer acting on .the. advice maybe of the religious
bodies, to the general Surprise of everybody, illegally prevented a procession of f
frde citizens from going about the streets and keeping up their religious festival,
Shile that is done by every other religious body even to the extent of marching
around with an image. There is apparently no objection to any other people
having their rights and privileges of worship but to this body,.: Any vagrant or
criminal from America can come-here and set up a religious body and is given
recognition by Government, but when the people of St. Vinceni. say we have a
right as others to form a religion of our own, they are denied that'right.
That is what I want this. Council to look into. There is nothing under the
law to enable this Council to give recognition to religious bodies, but in view of
the fact that the Superintendent of Police- and His Hofnour want to have a free
discussion of the matter, I have introduced this motion.
It is not because I could not get a number of signatures to the petition that I
have abandoned the idea, because I was surprised to see the large number of
people 'who were willing to come forward to sign it-. I find that they wanted to
sign it not only.from a religious point of view but also other reasons, and it' was
for this reason that I did not present the Petition.
But I do want Council te'give some co-iiiderat'io to this matter. The position
is this : There are a group of people who want to conform with the law, and to
do everything in order. There have been several attdeipts totake fhese so called
Shakers before the.Magistrate, and hitherto there Ihave been many prosecutions.
I remember once about 40 of'these people were hounded 'down. and brought to
Barrouallie for prosecution. I went down t'o Barrouallie and asked the people:
"Are you quite conscientious that this is the way you should serve God?" And
when they said Yes ", I told them If-you are arrested it would be nothing more
than being a martyr to your cause, and if you are put in prison there is nothing to
prevent you from shaking there." -And those 40 people shdok'in the Court House
at Barrouallie and were prepared to shake in the Prison. The case was dismissed.
After that there were no prosecutions until very recently something happened,
and I decided to dis-associate myself with these people. They used to come to me,
and I used to give.,them advice, and we succeed in every 'case to ward off..
conviction. I must confess that at that time I did- not know much of the practice
of Shakerism, bfit I want to take a very different attitude 'now. I want this-
Council to look into the matter on very reasonable grounds because these people
are prepared to help Government strike out the pernicious practice of Shakerism.
If there is something that is going to harm the people, and if they don't -know
better, those who know better should assist in putting the wrong right.
After refusing these people permission to hold their peaceful pr6cesion, I
suppose the Superintenolent of Police in order to juStify his action bought up
some people. When I checked up on the matter, I found that the people iho had







67

been arrested were not connected with this Church to which I refer now, and
therefore I refrained from having anything to do with the matter. I understand
they were tried by the Magistrate and fined. Just after that incident, the Chief
Pastor issued this notice :

"To the Spiritual Baptist.

Pastors, Teachers and Leaders
Dear Brethren
You are hereby invited to attend a Conference at the church (Cane
Garden) on Sunday 17th instant. to-discuss and decide means whereby we
shall have a clear distinction set between our Religion and Shakerism.

Yours faithfully

Mac-Donald Williams
Chief Pastor"

That gives you the idea that there is a set of people who, although they want
to serve God,.they do not want to be classed as Shakers. A conference was held,
and the first decision of the Conference was that the name should be changed
from Spiritual Baptists to Christian Pilgrims with their head church at Cane
Garden. It is interfded that these people should be organised-and have their own
ritual, their own hymnal and their own method of worshipping, I think'this is
something Government should encourage. Just taking these people and locking
them up in prison is no means whereby you are able to reclaim them. You are to
show them that you are not their enemy, that you are willing to meet them half-
way, to educate them, and this is a means,of doing this. I think Government
should consider some mears of satisfying these people. It will help them to stop
this practice of Shakerism and enable them to worship in a decent way.
I consider we are going out of our way to help Government in this matter, for
helping people ts a very laudable thing that Government should encourage.
And, therefore, I beg permission to amend the latter part of my Motion to I
read as follows:
BE IT RESOLVED that Government give such recognition to this body at
S- required by law, and thus cause education along the lines to be given, and.
thereby help Government to stamp out Shakerism.
;' I don't know what recognition it is that is required, but I believe the only
recognition-that Government is expected to give to a religious body is the grant of
.a Marriage Licence, and I see no reason why this Council should not give approval
. for this, provided the Pastor can satisfy Government that he has a following
numerically strong enough to justify this, and that he is prepared to conform with
law. .
SI, therefore, ask Government to give recognition to the Christian Pilgrims and .
by so doing, they in turn would" assist Government in stamping out Shakerism.
Honourable Member for Leeward : I rise to second the Motion. I am glad
that the Honourable Member has decided to amend the Motion, and now that he
has decided to do so, I find myself one hundred per cent in agreement with him.
I feel that every man is born with an equal right to worship God according to the
dictates of his conscience, If there is one way to worship God, why do the


4









different denominations differ so much; why don't they all agree? The members
of these other denominations are.ihot any more honest and less disposed to cheat
Government, as it is 'thought these people are. God has given us- different
Complexions and different customs, and I believe he has given every man a'
religion according to his understanding. These are-men and wonen who -do not
want to destroy other peoples' religion they only Want to enjoy their own, and I
think it is unconstitutional to deny them this right.
And now I refer to the Holy Bible which is supposed to be the basis of
Christianity. As it is related in the Bible when Paul and Peter were brought
before the council for practising religious customs contrary to the Jewish way, the
great Gamaliel, a learned Councillor of that;day, told the Council to be careful-
because if it be of God no power on earth could overthrow it. Didn't our Lord tell
us in the same Holy Bible to Jet the wheat and the tares grow together until the
harvest?
You are hot in a position to say that these people are wrong; only God can say
that. You allow other denominations to practise religion as they like and they
are no more honest. than these people.
I agree with the Honourable Member for Kingstown that most of these people
are poverty-stricken, and 'since there is a. certain amount of-- dissatisfaction, --
religion is the best means whereby these people can find a certain amount of
-comfort and satisfaction.
I strongly urge the Members of Council to banish religious intolerance, and
support the Motion moved by the Honourable Member for Kingstown.
Honourable E. A. C. Hughes: Your Honour, the spirit of politics is obviously-
very much in the air and having listened to the impassioned outburst that has
just taken place because a dozen people or so are in this room today listening to
this debate, I realise that this gives a foretaste of what we are to expect later on
in keeping with this impassioned oratory.' But what are we debating? Where is
this religiouss intolerance and religious suppression? I know nothing about the
Spiritual Baptists or the Christian.Pilgrims. They might be very worthy people.
I believe they have a Church at Cane Garden. Has anybody interfered with
them? -
Religious intolera.ice means that you do not ai'ow a person tq worship in the
-way he desires. These people have built a church where they h9ld services and
go through all their religious practices.
Apparently this year-the Spiritual Baptists were not allowed to march
through the streets of Kingstown as a safeguard against a probable breach of -law
and ordei'. If the Police have reason to anticipate a breach of law and order, they
are entitled to take action, to prevent it, but this does not mean that this will
continue. I believe the Spiritual Baptists are a fairly new:Sect, and if it is
believed that they have gbt rid of those iundesirable, traits'of Shakerism, everybody
will agree to allow them to march through any streets of the island.
As regards recognition, this Council has nothing to do with that. It is for the
dovernor-in-Council to consider application for, and grant. of Marriage Licences to
the Ministers of religious organizations,, provided they are satisfied that these
-Bodies operate within the bounds of law and order. As I say, it is a matter for
.the Governor and his advisers, and if they are satisfied that any Body deserves
recognition under the Marriage Ordinance, they will declare that Body to be 'a
religious denomination purely for that purpose and the reason for this is simple.








S .Bit who are we to sit here today and after listening to what the Honourable
SMember for Kingstown has.said, Agree to recognize Spiritual Baptists as a religious
Body. Have we made any investigation, do we know whether they are a reputable
S organisation? The only part of the Resolution we are asked'to agree to is an
S amendment which changes-the Motion, and only after-about ten minutes talk.by
the Honourable Member for Kingstown, we are told that he intends to change
the Motion.
I would like to make it clear .that it is hot because, I do not think that this
Body is a desirable Body, it is not because I am Bingg intolerant, but because I
know nothing about them and because I have never been consulted in this Council-
on such a question. -I do not know what investigations- are made before people
are granted licences as Marriage Officers, therefore how can I, after listening to
the Honourable Member's speech, say I agree to recognize this Body? I know
nothing about them I would also like to. make it clear that by saying what I have
said, I am not casting any aspersions on any organisation or on any religion, .but
I want. it to be clearly-understood that the season I cannot agree to any recognition
issiinply because I do not feel that I know enough about this-religious organisation
to decide-whether it is suitable or not.
The Governor and his Advisers have certain--channels through which such
things can be investigated, and after investigation if they come to the conclusion
that a certain body is suitable, it.is declared a religious qrganisation. In the case
of this particular body if it is proved that it has lost some of its old taints-and has
.purged itself, then perhaps it may be recognized. To-conclude, I hope and
sincerely trust that it will never be said of me that I have subscribed to religious
intolerance or suppression.
Honourable-0. D. Brisbane : Your Honour, when I first read this Motion I
was wondering what it was all about. It seemed to me that some volcano Was
going to erupt.-
I have now listened to the mover- of the Motion, and I can see nothing in the
Motion to which I should give my support. No particular body has been named,
nor has been refused a Marriage Licepce, and therefore the whole thing looks to
me like confused business.
The Honbut'able Member has given us a history of-Shakerism and told us that
some other Sect has grown out of the Shakers.
I just want to make one point clear. I have- nothing against any religious
Body. I like to think- that people worship God, and worship Him in spirit and
truth, and if it can be proved that a religious Body is doing this, then it will be
assisting Government in bringing peace and prosperity to this Colony. If there
is such a body called the Christian Pilgrims then.let them prove themselves. The
istory of this body is tainted, but if the present'leaders are against the practices
of their forerunners and do not intend to practise Shakerism, let them prove this.
I would advise the Hbnourable Member to frame his Motion in a different-
form and name a particular religious body, and then perhaps we will be able to
give it some consideration.
"" Perhaps this particular religious body could present a petition to Government
Sfor-the grant of a Marriage Licence, then their claim could be investigated and the
matter dealt with in the usual way.
Honourable Member for North Windward : It is quite-true that this Council
cannot give recognition nor can it recommend that recognition be given, but I am
able to say that the mover of the Resolution intends to help to right certain things








which are not right, and.I night mention that in the ranks of the body sometimes
'called Shakers I have found that there are people who do not agree with certain
.practices and it is those people who, are getting out of the ranks and forming
themselves into what is now known a" the Christian Pilgrims.
I believe that freedom-of religion rheans that the public and private practice
of religion should be free.: Religious bodies should freely organise themselves and
.conduct their services according.to their own rites and beliefs, provided nothing is
S done that is prejudicial to the moral or physical integrity of the human being.
And if these Christian Pilgrims prove themselves to be conducting their services/
along these lines, I see no reason why. they should not be allowed freedom of
worship, and when the time comes for them to nake application for a Marriage
Licence, it would be for the Governor and his advisers to decide what should be-
done.
I don't think I can say anything more tocontribute to this debate, apart, from
repeating that t know this is an attempt to bettercertain conditions thought
undesirable and I do hope that ,when the .time comes for the, application for a
Marriage Licence to be made that the circumstances will only prove that the'
Christian Pilgrims are worthy of such recognition.
Honourable Member for South Windward : -May I say just one- or two words-
in contribution to this debate. My feeling, Sir, is this, that iliyour position as
Administrator and Governor in Council, you have a' great trust in your hands to
protect public morals, and my advice would be- that you give Very serious
consideration, not only to this body but to any other religious body which makes
application for recognition. I would also issue a warning that as soon as you,
start to give recognition to bodies such as this, you will find hosts of applications
coming in, and it may be that many will be from those who wish to indulge in
immoral practices.
I do not know much of this particular Body, but. I would .e glad if Your Honour
would give full consideration to any application from it.
I always feel rather sad when religious bodies are hounded before the Corn
for religious practices. In every organisation you get a number of crooks and a
few honest people mixed up with them, so'in that way I agree we should have'as
much religious tolerance as possible. But, Sir, Ihope you take my advice and be
very wary of any.application made by these people, and give the matter the fullest
investigation before taking any action.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : I think the Honourable Member has
- solved the problem by suggesting that an application be sent to the Administrator
or Governor.
When certain things are done for the reason of preserving law and order I amn
inragreement with them, but in this case there was no reason for the action taken '
as these people were'coming out peacefully.
The reason why this -matter is brought- before this Council is because His
Honour wants to get the feeling of Members of Council. I will come here a million
times if necessary and I am going to come until we get what we want, and I tell
you this much, if we don't get it in one way we will get it in another way.
The Shakerism Ordinance is not worth the paper it is printed on. One
Member has said that he does not know that there is any change of name of this
religious body. I have explained that there is a confusion about the Spiritual
Baptists, and we have gone into the matter and have changed the name to
Christian Pilgrims. The time will come when this body .is going to make aln







application for a'Marriage Licence, and they have just as much reason to make
application for a Marriage Liceice as any other religious body, and they have a
larger following than many. -I see no reason why the people of St. Vincent should
not have their own religion.
A peaceful people plant march through the streets of Kingstown to celebrate
their religious festival. I see no reason why a lunatic of a Superintendent of
Police should stop them --
President : That remark is out of order.
Honourable Member for Kingstown: Well I have already said it. I see no
reason why he should stop them and I don't see why you (His Honour) should have
colluded with him. If you had not the knowledge or experience in the matter,
there are people here who have that knowledge and experience and would have
advised you. You are not here just to take sides. It is for you to see that justice
is done to the people,.and I can tell you that there are a number of people who
are prepared to sign this petition and if they are denied the right of religious
freedom I can only repeat the words of Claude McKay : If we must- die, Oh let
us nobly die so that the very monsters we -defy shall be constrained to honour us,
though dead".
President:- Before taking a vote on this Motion 1..just want to make two
points. i The first is that neither the Superintendent of Police nor I colluded to
'deprive anybody of religious freedom in this Colony. We have always given
answers frem the Government as.'regards freedom of religion and1"these have
always been in the affirmative because webelieve so, but we have never conceded
that Shakerism is a religion. Secondly, the reasons for not granting the
application for the procession were, I think, quite well set out in the answers to
the Honourable Member for 'Kihgstown. In other words, neither the
Superintendent of Police nor I could be parties to breaking the law in allowing
Shakerism to take place. Therefore, it seemed to us reasonable to prohibit this
procession.
If the Honourable Member for Kingstown can convince the Superintendent of
Police arid myself that these people are not Shakers, I see no reason why
consideration could not be given to their request.
The third point is this : If it is a fact that the only recognition is in respect
of an application for a Marriage Licence, then I will say that no application for a
Marriage Licence has yet beep received by me.

VOTE TAKEN ON MOTION.
Result : 3 for, 4 against, 1 abstained.
Honourable Crown Attorney : Your Honour, Honourable-Members of Council,
I beg leave to move the following motion standing in my name-That this Council
approves the Order entitled Depaitment of Labour (Minimum Wage) (Shop
Assistants) (Amendment) Order.
This Order is -to replace Section 3 of the principal Order and to amend the
minimum wages paid to Shop Assistants-in Kingstown and in other areas.
This Order came into force on 1st October, 1950, and, therefore, is already in
force. It was made by the Governor-in-Council and .is to be laid before the
Legislative Council as soon as possible thereafter.
Honourable Colonial Treasurer : I beg leave to second the motion.
Question-put and agreed to,







Honourable Crown Attorney : I beg leave to move the following motion
standing in my name-That this Couricil approves the Order entitled Diplomatic
Privileges (United Nations and International Council of Justice) (Amendment)
Order.
The history of this Order is that, under the Original Order made under the
Diplomatic Privileges Ordinance, 1949, certain immunities were granted to persons
appearing before the International Court of Justice such as Agents, Counsel, or
Advocates, but by a peculiar provision in that Order such immunity was not
granted to such Agents etc acting on behalf of His Majesty's Government when
appearing in the United Kingdom.
It was pointed out that there was no reason why such privileges should not be
granted to agents acting on behalf of His Majesty's Government when eppe-aring
in the United Kingdom, and it was agreed that that restriction should be removed
and hence the necessity for the cancellation of Section 13 of the-prir cipal Order.
Honourable Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and,agreed to.
Honourable Colonial Treasurer :Your Honour, Honourable Members of Council,
I beg to move that this Council approves the Schedules of Additional Provision
required to meet expenditure in excess of the Estimates for the year 1949 for the
period July 1st to September 30th, 1950.
You will find the details of the items of Additional Provision in the Schedules
attached to the Order Paper.
Honourable Crown Attorney : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.

Council Adjourned.

HENRY H. WILLIAMS,
Acting Clerk of Legislative Council.

Confirmed 5th April, 1951L
W. F. COUTTS,
Administrator.




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