• TABLE OF CONTENTS
HIDE
 Main
 Supplement: House of assembly debates...
 Supplement: Senate debates for...
 Supplement: Senate debates for...














Group Title: Official gazette, Barbados
Title: The official gazette
ALL VOLUMES CITATION THUMBNAILS PAGE IMAGE ZOOMABLE
Full Citation
STANDARD VIEW MARC VIEW
Permanent Link: http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00076861/00093
 Material Information
Title: The official gazette
Physical Description: v. : ill. ; 33-42 cm.
Language: English
Creator: Barbados
Publisher: s.n.
Place of Publication: BridgetownBarbados Published by authority
 Subjects
Subject: Law -- Periodicals -- Barbados   ( lcsh )
Politics and government -- Periodicals -- Barbados   ( lcsh )
Genre: periodical   ( marcgt )
 Notes
General Note: Caption title.
General Note: Supplements issued for some of the numbers.
 Record Information
Bibliographic ID: UF00076861
Volume ID: VID00093
Source Institution: University of Florida
Rights Management: All rights reserved by the source institution and holding location.
Resource Identifier: aleph - 001043625
oclc - 12594829
notis - AFC6434

Table of Contents
    Main
        Page 377
        Page 378
        Page 379
        Page 380
        Page 381
        Page 382
        Page 383
        Page 384
        Page 385
        Page 386
    Supplement: House of assembly debates for 30th July, 1968
        Page A 1912
        Page A 1913
        Page A 1914
        Page A 1915
        Page A 1916
        Page A 1917
        Page A 1918
        Page A 1919
        Page A 1920
        Page A 1921
        Page A 1922
        Page A 1923
        Page A 1924
        Page A 1925
    Supplement: Senate debates for 7th December, 1967
        Page B 255
        Page B 256
        Page B 257
        Page B 258
        Page B 259
        Page B 260
        Page B 261
        Page B 262
    Supplement: Senate debates for 14th December, 1967
        Page B 263
        Page B 264
        Page B 265
        Page B 266
        Page B 267
Full Text












VOL. CIV.


Sffiial


9et tet


PUBLISHED BY AUTHORITY


BRIDGETOWN, BARBADOS, 24TH APRIL, 1969


TABLE OF CONTENTS

Gazette Notices


Appointments to the posts of Senior Laboratory
Assistant, Ministry of Agriculture, Labour
and National [nsurance.........................
Barbados Fancy Molasses Production and Export
Act, 1937 (Appointments)................:....
Consular: Mr. Garett Gordon Sweany of the United
States of America at Bridgetown................
Executorial:
John Henry Mackenzie Macphail...............
Income Tax Notice (Arrears of Tax)..................
In the Supreme Court:
Dash vs Clarke; Edwards vs Lorde....,.....
Edwards vs Yearwood; Gollop vs Blackman
Skinner vs Drakes & Drakes...............
Skinner vs Headley....................- .. ....
Skinner vs Lewis; Skinner vs Worrell...........
Probate Advertisements dated 18th April, 1969.
Resignations:
Monica Simmons, Ward Assistant...........--..
Joyce Waterman, Clerical Officer............
Temporary appointment of Minister:
Hon. E. W. Barrow as Minister of Home Affairs
Withdrawal:
P.C. No. 518 Mark Graham, Royal Barbados
Police Force .............................


377

378

378

380
384,385

379
381
383
382
382,383
386

378
378

377


378


House of Assembly Debates for 30th July, 1968.
Senate Debates for 7th & 14th December, 1967. ..,, s


NOTICE NO. 282

GOVERNMENT NOTICES
Appointments

The following persons have been ap-
pointedto the posts of Senior Laboratory As-
sistant, Ministry of Agriculture, Labour and
National Insurance, with effect from 1st
March, 1969:-

George Small
Keith H. Streat
E. A. Myles.

(M.P. 3649/26)

Temporary appointment of Minister

In pursuance of section 68 of the Consti-
tution of Barbados, His Excellency the
Governor-General has been pleased to ap-
point The Right Honourable E. W. Barrow,
M.P., to perform the functions of the Minis-
ter of Home Affairs during the period 18th to
29th April, 1969, consequent on the absence
from Barbados of Senator The Honourable
P.M. Greaves.

(M.P. 8682/18 Vol. III)


32. Wb^/4.
A^^//>


NO. 33


(Ie








OFFICIAL GAZETTE April 24, 1969


GOVERNMENT NOTICES

Consular

The Government of Barbados has been
pleased to accord provisional recognition to
Mr. Garett Gordon Sweany as Consul of the
United States of America at Barbados Pend-
ing the issue of Her Majesty's Exequatur.

(M.P. 9007/1/T.7)


Withdrawal

No. 518 Police Constable Mark Graham
has been granted permission to withdraw
from the Royal Barbados Police Force, with
effect from 21st April, 1969.

(M.P. 3816 Vol. VII)



Resignations

Miss Monica Simmons, Ward Assistant
has resigned from the Public Service, with
effect from 16th April, 1969.

(M.P. P. 8337)


Joyce Waterman, Clerical Officer, Min-
istry of Education, resigned from the Public
Service with effect from 14th April, 1969.


(M.P. P. 8615)


Resignation

Orison F. Jones, Clerical Officer, Regis-
tration Office, has resigned from the Public
Service with effect from 22nd March, 1969.

(M.P. P. 6644)


Barbados Fancy Molasses Production and
Export Act, 1937

APPOINTMENTS


In exercise of the powers conferred on
him by section 3 of the Barbados Fancy
Molasses Production and Export Act, 1937
(1937-14), as amended, the Minister of Agri-
culture, Labour and National Insurance has
appointed the following persons to be mem-
bers of the Fancy Molasses Controland
Marketing Board established in accordance
with the provisions of the said Act, for a
period of five years with effect from 23rd
April, 1969:-

The Chief Agricultural Officer -
Chairman (Ex Officio)
Mr. G. D. Bynoe
Mr. H. A. C. Thomas
Mr. J. A. Mahon
Mr. L. A. Ward
Mr. E. R. Leacock
Mr. L. A. Nurse
Mr. E. L. Weekes.


OFFICIAL GAZETTE


April 24, 1969








April 24, 1969 OFFICIAL GAZETTE


NOTICE NO. 283


IN THE SUPREME COURT OF JUDICATURE

High Court


No. 127 of 1969

CYNTHIA DASH: Plaintiff

INA EUDORA CLARKE: Defendant


Any person having any claim, lien or
charge against the property described here-
under shall submit such claim duly authenti-
cated on oath to me on or before the 19th day
of June 1969.

PROPERTY: FIRSTLY ALL THAT cer-
tain piece or parcel of land situate at
Westmoreland in the parish of Saint James in
this Island containing by admeasurement One
Rood or thereabouts Abutting and Bounding on
lands now or late of James Moore on lands
now or late of H. Wilson on lands now or late
of Catherine Greene and on the Public Road
or however else the same may abut and bound
and SECONDLY ALL THAT certain piece or
parcel of land situate at Westmoreland in the
parish of Saint James in this Island contain-
ing by admeasurement Three roods Sixteen
point four one perches or thereabouts Abutting
and Bounding on lands of Louis Roach on
lands of Cecil Webster and on the Public Road
on two sides or however else the same may
abut and bound.

VALUE OF PROPERTIES: $1,000.00
$3,000.00
Dated this 1st day of April 1969.

C. A. ROCHEFORD
Registrar of the Supreme Court.


NOTICE NO. 284

IN THE SUPREME COURT OF JUDICATURE

High Court

No. 114 of 1969

LORTON EDBERT EDWARDS et al:
Plaintiff
GLORIA PATRICIA LORDE: Defendant

Any person having any claim, lien or
charge against the property described here-
under shall submit such claim duly authenti-
cated on oath to me on or before the 19th day
of June 1969.

PROPERTY: ALL THAT certain piece
or parcel of land situate at Evelyn Tenantry
near Edgecumbe Plantation in the parish of
Saint Philip and Island abovesaid containing
by admeasurement One Rood Eighteen and
Three Tenths perches or thereabouts abutting
and bounding on lands of the Estate of one Bain
deceased on lands of the said Edgecumbe
Plantation on lands of A. Haynes and on the
Public Road or however else the same may
abut and bound and ALSO ALL THAT certain
piece or parcel of land situate at Brereton
Village in the parish of Saint Philip and Island
aforesaid containing by admeasurement Six-
teen Perches or thereabouts (inclusive of
Two and one tenth of a Perch in the area of
the road hereinafter mentioned) abutting and
bounding on lands of James Forde (on two
sides) on a road in common Six feet wide and
on the Public Road or however else the same
may abut and bound.

VALUE OF PROPERTIES: $1,500.00
$800.00

Dated this 1st day of April 1969.


C. A. ROCHEFORD
Registrar of the Supreme Court.


OFFICIAL GAZETTE


April 24, 1969








OFFICIAL GAZETTE April 24, 1969


NOTICE NO. 285

IN THE SUPREME COURT OF JUDICATURE

High Court

No. 103 of 1969

BERESFORD ELVISUS THORPE: Plaintiff

PERCIVAL ELVISUS THORPE
Attorney for Simeon Gibbs: Defendant

Any person having any claim, lien or
charge against the property described here-
under shall submit such claim duly authenti-
cated on oath to me on or before the 19th day
of June 1969.

PROPERTY: ALL THAT certainpiece or
parcel of land situate at Bank Hall in the par-
ish of Saint Michael in this Island containing
by admeasurement Five thousand seven hun-
dred and forty two square feet or thereabouts
of which area Four hundred and thirty nine
square feet are contained in the area of the
Public Road hereinafter mentioned Abutting
and Bounding on lands of Daisy Stuart, de-
ceased, on lands of one Worrell on lands of
Mrs. Cynthia Blunt on lands of Athelbert
Watkins and on the Public Road hereinbefore
mentioned which leads to Barrack Road and
1st Avenue Bank Hall or however else the
same may abut and bound.

VALUE OF PROPERTY: $5,742.00

Dated this 24th day of March 1969.

C. A. ROCHEFORD
Registrar of the Supreme Court.


NOTICE NO. 286

NOTICE

Re the Estate of

JOHN HENRY MACKENZIE MACPHAIL

Deceased

NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that all per-
sons having any debt or claim upon or affect-
ing the Estate of John Henry Mackenzie
Macphail late of 11 Pavilion Court, Hastings,
in the parish of Christ Church in this Island
who died at 11 Pavilion Court, Hastings
in the parish of Christ Church and Island
of Barbados on the 25th day of November
1968, are hereby requested to send particu-
lars of their claims duly attested to the un-
dersigned at Roebuck Street, Bridgetown,
Barbados on or before the 12th day of June
1969, after which date we shall proceed to
distribute the assets of the estate among the
parties entitled thereto having regard to the
debts and claims only of which we shall then
have had notice; and that we shall not be
liable for assets so distributed to any person
of whose debt or claim we shall not have had
notice at the time of such distribution.

And all persons indebted to the said Es-
tate are requested to settle their accounts
without delay.

Dated this 2nd day of April 1969.

BARCLAYS BANK D.C.O.
Executor of the Will of
John Henry Mackenzie Macphail
deceased.


OFFICIAL GAZETTE


April 24, 1969








An, l 24, ,1969 GA


NOTICE NO. 287

IN THE SUPREME COURT OF JUDICATURE

High Court

No. 105 of 1969

LORTON EGBERT EDWARDS: Plaintiff

CLEOPATRA YEARWOOD: Defendant

Any person having any claim, lien or
charge against the property described here-
under shall submit such claim duly authenti-
cated on oath to me on or before the 19th day
of June 1969.

PROPERTY: ALL THAT certain piece or
parcel of land situate at Paynes Bay inthe
parish of Saint James and Island aforesaid
containing by admeasurement Twelve thous-
and three hundred and thirty five square feet
or thereabouts abutting and bounding on lands
of one Mayers on lands of one Sandiford
on lands of one Moe one Phillips and one
Reeves and on the Public Road or however
else the same may abut and bound.

VALUE OF PROPERTY: $4,000.00

Dated this 24th day of March 1969.

C. A. ROCHEFORD
Registrar of the Supreme Court.


NOTICE NO. 288


IN THE SUPREME COURT OF JUDICATURE

High Court


No. 107 of 1969

FRED WINLYN GOLLOP: Plaintiff

CUTHBERT LLEWELLYN SHAW
BLACKMAN: Defendant

Any person having any claim, lien or
charge against the property described here-
under shall submit such claim duly authenti-
cated on oath to me on or before the 19th day
of June 1969.

PROPERTY: ALL THAT certain piece or
parcel of land situate in the parish of Saint
Michael and Island of Barbados containing by
admeasurement 20,719 square feet abutting
and bounding on lands of one Reid on a place
called "Kingston" on lands now or lateof
Viola Caddle on lands of C. W. Waterman and
on the public road or however else the same
may abut and bound.

VALUE OF PROPERTY: $2,500.00

Dated this 24th day of March 1969.

C. A. ROCHEFORD
Registrar of the Supreme Court.


OFFICIAL GAZETTE


pA ril 24, 1969








OFIILGAET pil2,16


NOTICE NO. 289


IN THE SUPREME COURT OF JUDICATURE

High Court

No. 108 of 1969

ST.ALBAN O'BRIAN SKINNER: Plaintiff

SAMUEL ASHFIELD HEADLEY: Defendant

Any person having any claim, lien or
charge against the property described here-
under shall submit such claim duly authenti-
cated on oath to me on or before the 19ch day
of June 1969.

PROPERTY: ALL THAT certain piece or
parcel of land situate at Sargeants Village in
the parish of Christ Church and Island afore-
said containing by ad-neasurement 24,825
square feet or thereabouts ABUTTING AND
BOUNDING on lands ofW. H. Barker, on lands
W. Phillips, on lands now or late of John
Francis Scott and on the Public Road leading
to Widley or however else the same may abut
and bound Together with the message or
dwellinghouse thereon and the appurtenances
thereto.

VALUE OF PROPERTY: $14,500.00

Dated this 24th day of March 1969.

C. A. ROCHEFORD
Registrar of the Supreme Court.


NOTICE NO. 290


IN THE SUPREME COURT OF JUDICATURE

High Court


No. 106 of 1969

ST.ALBAN O'BRIAN SKINNER: Plaintiff

ETHEL LEWIS acting herein by
Martin Cadogan her duly Constituted
Attorney on record in this Island: Defendant

Any person having any claim, lien or
charge against the property described here-
under shall submit such claim duly authenti-
cated on oath to me on or before the 19th day
of June 1969.

PROPERTY: ALL THAT certain piece or
parcel of land situate at Richmond Gap in the
parish of Saint Michael and Island aforesaid
containing by admeasurement 2,586 square
feet or thereabouts ABUTTING AND BOUND-
ING on lands now or late of one Mr. Mayers,
on lands now or late of Frederick Forde, on
lands now or late of C. Taylor and on a Road-
in-common or however else the same may
abutt and bound.

VALUE OF PROPERTY: $500.00

Dated this 24th day of March 1969.

C. A. ROCHEFORD
Registrar of the Supreme Court.


April 24, .1969


OFFICIAL GAZETTE








Apri 24 196 OFICIA GAETT


NOTICE NO. 291

IN THE SUPREME COURT OF JUDICATURE

High Court


No. 128 of 1969

ST.ALBAN O'BRIAN SKINNER: Plaintiff

FITZSTANLEY DRAKES and GWENDOLINE
EUGENE DRAKES: Defendants

Any person having any claim, lien or
charge against the property described here-
under shall submit such claim duly authenti-
cated on oath to me on or before the 19th day
of June 1969.

PROPERTY: ALL THAT certain piece
or parcel of land situate at Arthur Seat in the
parish of Saint Thomas and Island aforesaid
containing by admeasurement 2 Roods 1 &
3/5 Perches or thereabouts ABUTTING AND
BOUNDING on lands now or late of Josuha
Alleyne, on lands now or late of Irene A.
Spooner, on lands now or late of Samuel
Francis Stuart deceased and on the Public
Road or however else the same may abut and
bound.

VALUE OF PROPERTY: $500.00

Dated this 1st day of April 1969.

C. A. ROCHEFORD
Registrar of the Supreme Court.


NOTICE NO. 292


IN THE SUPREME COURT OF JUDICATURE

High Court

No. 115 of 1969

ST.ALBAN O'BRIAN SKINNER: Plaintiff

CARLTON RANDOLPH WORRELL:Defendant

Any person having any claim, lien or
charge against the property described here-
under shall submit such claim duly authenti-
cated on oath to me on or before the 19th day
of June 1969.

PROPERTY: ALL THAT certain piece
or parcel of land situate at The Whim in the
parish of Saint Peter and Island aforesaid
containing by admeasurement 1 Acre 39 1/2
Perches or thereabouts (inclusive of 6 1/2
Perches in the Public Road hereinafter men-
tioned and forming one of the boundaries of
the said parcel of land) ABUTTING AND
BOUNDING on lands now or late of Mrs. E. R.
Pile, on lands now or late of Rockless Plan-
tation, on lands now or late of T. C. Gibbs and
on the Public Road hereinbefore mentioned or
however else the same may abut and bound.

VALUE OF PROPERTY: $1,500.00

Dated this 1st day of April 1969.

/ C. A. ROCHEFORD
Registrar of the Supreme Court.


April 24, 1969


OFFICIAL GAZETTE










INCOME TAX NOTICE

ARREARS OF TAX

There are many taxpayers on the delinquent list and it is intended toobtain
immediate collection of unpaid taxes by maintaining a firm policy of collection and using
for this purpose the processes provided by the Income Tax Act 1968.

2. Scores of reminder-s have been issued to defaulters and there is no intention
of issuing further reminders to those who have disregarded them. Collection will now be
made by way of. GARNISHMENT. Those persons in arrears with tax payments are re-
quested to call immediately and pay arrears due, thus avoiding collection through their
employers or other persons.

3. For the information of all concerned the Section of the Income Tax Act 1968-
providing for unpaid tax certificates and Garnishment are as set forth:-

W. A. GITTENS
Commissioner of Inland Revnue.
2nd April, 1969.

Section 72. (1) "An amount payable by a person under this Act that has remained
unpaid for a period of 30 days may be certified in relation to that
person by the Commissioner in a certificate called an unpaid tax
certificate.

(2) An unpaid tax certificate may be filed by the Commissioner inthe.
High Court or in the Magistrate's Court of District "A" and shall be
registered in the Court in which it is filed and after the expiry of
seven days after it is filed and registered has the same force and ef-
fect as a judgement of the Court in which it is registered in favour
of the Crown against the person named in the certificate for the
amount specified in the certificate plus

(a) interest theron as provided in this Act until the date of pay-
ment; and
(b) the reasonable costs and charges attendant upon the registra-
tion of the certificate;
and all proceedings may be taken on the certificate and it may be en-
forced as if it is a judgement of the Court in which it is registered,

3. Where an unpaid tax certificate is filed by the Commissioner in the
High Court or in the Magistrate's Court of District "A" the Com-
missioner shall forthwith deliver a copy of the unpaid tax certificate to
the person to whom the unpaid tax certificate relates and if the


April 24, 1969


OFFICIAL GAZETTE









INCOME TAX NOTICE -Continued

copy of the unpaid tax certificate is not so delivered within 7 days of
the filing then subsection (2) ceases to have effect with respect to
that unpaid tax certificate.

Section 73. (1) Where the Commissioner believes that any person is indebted to or
liable to make a payment to another person and that other person is
indebted to the Crown under this Act, the Commissioner may deliver
to the first mentioned person a demand for payment stating the name
of the person indebted to the Crown and the amount of the debt to the
Crown including the rate of interest thereon, and where that first
mentioned person is the employer of the person indebted to the Crown
the amount demanded for each pay period expressed either as a
dollar amount or a percentage of renumeration.

(2) Every person who receives a demand for payment under subsection
(1) relating to one of his employees shall pay to the Commissioner at
the same time as he would pay that employee the amount demanded by
the Commissioner or the amount of the employee's indebtedness to
the Crown, whichever is lesser, and shall continue to do so on each
occasion that the employee is entitled to be paid until the employee's
indebtedness to the Crown is satisfied.

(3) Every person who receives a demand for payment under subsection
(1) relating to some person other than one of his employees shall, if
he is indebted to or liable to make a payment to that other person,
pay to the Commissioner the amount of his indebtedness or the
amount which he is liable to pay to that person or the amount of that
person's indebtedness to the Crown, whichever, is the lesser.

(4) Every personwho has discharged any liability to a person indebted to
the Crown under this Act after receiving a demand for payment un-
der subsection (1) without complying with subsection (2) or (3) is
liable to pay to the Crown an amount equal to the liability discharged
of which he was required under subsections (2) or (3) to pay the
Commissioner, whichever is the lesser.

(5) The payment of any amount to the Commissioner under subsections
(2) or (3) operates as a discharge of any liability of the person mak-
ing the payment to the person to whom the payment, would but for
this section, have been paid, to the extent of the amount paid to the
Commissioner.

(6) This section is effective notwithstanding the Protection of Wages
Act, 1951."


April 24, -1969


OFFICIAL GAZETTE











PROBATE ADVERTISEMENTS

PUBLIC NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that applications have been made
for the following Grants of Probate and Administration namely :-


PROBATE of the Will dated the 7th day of February, 1952, of AUBREY WATSON, late of
Cliff Cottage in the parish of Saint John in this Island who died on the 12th day of
November, 1959, by ELVEY ALONZA WATSON and CATHERINE WATSON, the
Executors named in the Will of the said deceased.

PROBATE of the Willdated the 3rd day of August, 1965, of ERNEST COLIN FIELD, late
of Radcot, Rouen in the parish of Saint Michael in this Island who died on the 15th day
of December, 1968, by KATHLEEN EILEEN FIELD, the sole Executrix named in the
Will of the said deceased.

PROBATE of the Will dated the 14th day of October, 1957, of BESSIE LEOTTA ASHBY,
late of Goodland in the parish of Christ Church in this Island who died on the 15th
day of December, 1968, by CYNTHIA REID nee EASTMOND, the sole Executrix
named in the Will of the said deceased.

PROBATE of the Will dated the 24th day of October, 1957 of VIOLET ROSALIE MAY
SHANNON, late of Dafdor, Chelsea Road in the parish of Saint Michael in this Is-
land who died on the 28th day of November, 1968, by JOHN HUMPHREY SHANNON,
the sole Executor named in the Will of the said deceased.

PROBATE of the Will dated the 2nd day of January, 1968, of CARLTON THEOPHILUS
SMALL, late of Weirs Gap, Brittons Hill in the parish of Saint Michael in this Is-
land who died on the 7th day of January, 1968, by UNA CELIA SMALL one of the
Executors named in the Will of the said deceased.

LETTERS OF ADMINISTRATION to the Estate of CHARLES CEDRIC SEALE, late of
Monroe Road, Haggatt Hall in the parish of Saint Michael in this Island who died on
the 15th day of June, 1956, by DOROTHY EILEEN BROWNE, daughter of the said
deceased.

LETTERS OF ADMINISTRATION to the Estate of KENNETH ALPHONSO BARROW late of
Jackmans, in the parish of Saint Michael in this Island who died on the 2nd day of
September, 1963, by VIOLET BUTCHER, the constituted Attorney on record in this
Island of GARFIELD BARROW, brother of the said deceased.

UNLESS CAVEAT is lodged within fourteen days from the date of this Advertisement
with the Registrar of the Supreme Court through whom the abovenamed applications have
been made Probate and Administration will be granted accordingly.

Dated this 18th day of April, 1969.

C. A. ROCHEFORD
Registrar.


Government Printing Office.


OFFICIAL GAZETTE


April 24, 1969










THE




House of Assembly Debates




(OFFICIAL REPORT)


SECOND SESSION OF 1966 71


HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY
TUESDAY, 30th July, 1968.
Pursuant to the adjournment, the House of As-
sembly met at 12 o'clock (noon) today.
PRESENT
His Honour J. E. T. BRANCKER, Q.C., F.Z.S.,
(Speaker); Mr. L. E. SMIrTH, J.P..; Hon. C. E. TALMA,
(Minister of Health and Community Development); Hon.
J. C. TUDOR, M.A., (Leader of the House); Mr. J. W. CORBIN,
J.P.; Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON, (Minister of Trade, Tourism,
Co-operatives and Fisheries) Mr. R. ST. C. WEEKES, J.P.;
Mr. J. B. YEARWOOD, J.P., ; (Chairman of Committees);
Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS, (Minister of Agriculture, Labour
and National Insurance); Mr. W. C. B, HINDS; His Honour
G. E. SARGEANT, (Deputy Speaker); Mr. C, A. E.'HOPPIN,
J.P.; and MR. L. S. CRAIG.

MINUTES
Prayers were read.

Mr. SPEAKER: I have the honour to inform the
House that the Minutes of the Meetings of the 19th
March and the 26th March, both of this year, have,
I am informed, been duly circulated amongst hon.
members, and if there is no objection, I will declare
the Minutes of the Meeting of the 19th March of this
year duly confirmed. (A PAUSE.) There beingno ob-
jection, I declare the Minutes of the Meeting of the
19th March duly confirmed.

The Minutes of the Meeting of the 26th March,
have, according to my information, also been duly
circulated amongst hon. members, and they will be
taken as read and confirmed unless I hear any ob-
jections to the confirmation of those Minutes.(A PAUSE).
There being no objection, I declare the Minutes of the
Meeting of the 26th March duly confirmed.
PAPERS LAID
Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the
Hon. Prime Minister, Minister of Finance and Min-
ister of External Affairs, I am commanded to lay the
following: -

Statement showing net Customs and Excise Re-
ceipts for three months ended 30th June, 1968.

Training Report for the year ist April, 1967 to
31st March, 1968.


Statement of sums of money paid over to the Ac -
,:ountant General for quarter ended 31st March,
1968,

On behalf of the Hon. Minister of Communications
and Works, I am commanded to lay the following:-

Statement showing the sums of money advanced
to the Postmaster General for the payment of
Money Orders, the amount repaid to the Ac-
countant General and the amounts due by various
Post Offices to November, 1967.


Statement showing the sums of money advanced
to the Postmaster General for the payment of
Money Orders, the amounts repaid to the Ac-
countant General, and the amounts due by various
Post Offices to December, 1967.

Statement showing the sums of money advanced
to the Postmaster General for the payment of
Money Orders, the amounts repaid to the
Accountant General, and the amounts due by
various Post Offices to January, 1968.

GOVERNMENT NOTICES

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the
Hon. Prime Minister, Minister of Finance and Min-
ister of External Affairs, I beg to give notice of the
following Resolutions.-

A Resolution to place the sum of $370,000 at the
disposal of the Government to supplement the
Estimates 1968-69, Part 1 Current, as shown
in the Supplementary Estimates 1968-69 No. 17
which form the Schedule to the Resolution.



A Resolution to place the sum of $990 at the
disposal of the Government to supplement the
Estimates 1968-69, Part 1 Current, as shown
in the Supplementary Estimates 1968-69 No. 18
which form the Schedule to the Resolution.


On my own behalf, I beg to give notice of a Bill
to amend the Police Act, 1961.







1913


REPLIES LAID

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the
Hon. and Learned Prime Minister, Ministerof
Finance and Minister of External Affairs, I beg to
give notice that the Oral Replies to the following
Parliamentary Questions are ready:-

Oral Reply to Parliamentary Question No. 171,
standing in the name of the hon. senior member for
St. Thomas;

Oral Reply to Parliamentary Question No. 219,
standing in the name of the hon. senior member for
Christ Church.

On behalf of the Hon. Minister of Communications
and Works, I beg to give notice that the Oral Replies
to the following Parliamentary Questions are ready:-

Oral Reply to Parliamentary Question No. 179,
standing in the name of the hon. junior member for
St. George;

Oral Replies to Parliamentary Questions Nos. 185
and 207 standing in the name of the hon. senior
member for St. James.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, I beg to
give notice that the Oral Replies to the following
Parliamentary Questions are ready:-

Oral Reply to Parliamentary Question No. 108,
standing in the name of the hon. junior member for
St. James;

Oral Reply to Parliamentary Question No. 183,
standing in the name of the hon. senior member for
St. James.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Speaker, I beg to give
notice that the Oral Replies to Parliamentary Ques -
tions Nos. 158, 159 and 195 asked by the hon. junior
member for St. Peter are ready.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker, I beg to
give notice that the Oral Replies to Parliamentary
Questions Nos. 184, 188 and 190, standing in the name
of the hon. senior member for St. James are ready.
The Oral Reply to Parliamentary Question No.
199, asked by the Hon. junior member for St. John
is also ready.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I beg to give
notice of my intention to deal with the Money Reso-
lutions of which notice has just been given.
12.25 p.m.


PRIVATE MEMBERS' NOTICES

Mr. SPEAKER: The senior member for St.
Joseph, his Resolution is in connection with motor
transport.


Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker,


WHEREAS there is a dire need for motor trans -
port for the conveyance of people living in the coun-
try districts who desire to make cross- country visits
in groups to attend Church meetings, funerals, or such
functions, or to visit infimaries or such institutions:

AND WHEREAS the public bus companies do not
or cannot supply such service economically;

BE IT RESOLVED that this House request the
Government to investigate the possibilities of insti-
tuting a small transport service to alleviate such
hardships.

REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE

Mr. SPEAKER: I have the honour to inform the
House that the Select Committee appointed to consider,
together with a Select Committee of the Senate, the
amendments of the Senate to "The Dairy Industry
(Regulation and Control) Act, 1968" has prepared a
Report, and I beg now to present the following Re-
port that has been laid on the Table of this Chamber
for printing and circulation:

REPORT

1. The Committee met on three occasions.

2. The Committee recommend that the amend-
ments of the Senate to the above mentioned
Bill be adopted.


3. The Committee are indebted to Mr. John
Husbands of the Crown Law Department
for the invaluable assistance rendered
them in their deliberations.

BILL READ A FIRST TIME

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move
that a Bill to amendthe Police Act, 1961, be now read
a first time.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.

The question was put and resolved in the affirma-
tive without division

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

Mr. SPEAKER: Order No. 1 stands in the name
of the Hon. Leader of the House, and it is to move
the House into Committee of Supply to consider the
grant of sums of money for the service of the Island.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move
that Your Honour do now leave the Chair and the House
go into Committee of Supply.
Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.
The question was put and resolved in the affirmative
without division, and Mr. SPEAKER left the Chair and the
House went into Committee of Supply, Mr. YELURWOOD in
the Chair.







1914


SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATE 1968-69 No. 16


Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Chairman, during the
Financial Year 1967-68 an amount of $43,000 was
provided for the construction of three classrooms
and toilet facilities at Lodge School. At the end of the
Financial Year, only $27,398 had been released from
the total vote, and hon. members will recall that the
remainder, some $15,602, has been revoted in this
year's Capital Estimate.
The Ministry of Communications and Works has
advised that a further sum of $6,114 is required to
meet the cost of extra works andunforeseenextra
costs to be incurred. The breakdown is as follows:

The temporary toilets at
a cost of .... $400.00
The Rifle Range .... $100.00
The plumbing alterations to
the laboratory .... $430.00
The S.B. Roof and water-
proofing which is neces -
sitated by a change from the
galvanized roof originally
estimated which will cost .... $3,000.00
Increased wages in conse -
quence of the salaries
wages revision .... $2,004.00
A watchman for four weeks .... $ 180.00


Total


$6,114.00


I think I ought to point out that the Ministry of
Communications and Works has said that the work on
the project had been hampered considerably by un-
favourable soil conditions and rock formations which
were encountered when the foundations were being
laid. This, apparently, brought about the stoppage of
work and has led, eventually, to the requirmej s of
additional work. I beg to move that this Resolution do
now pass.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.
Mr. HINDS: Mr. Chairman, there is little one
could have to say against a Resolutionof this sort,
but I would like to hear from the Hon. Minister if this
amount that is now asked for includes the sum of
$4,000 for furniture. (ASIDES). I understand the Min-
ister is saying it is not so.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: If the hon. member will give
way, I think he will find I speak subject to correc-
tion, but I think I am right that not only is this for
the three classrooms and toilet facilities, but Ithink
he will find that for the last two years appropriations
for furniture have always been brought here under
a separate Head or a separate Item. They are never
mixed up now.
Mr. HINDS: Mr. Chairman, I do not knowhowlong
these things have been separated. What Ihave before
me, and it must have been put before the Minister
when he was bringing in this Resolution, was Item 16
- Lodge School to construct three classrooms and
toilet facilities $43,000, and this includes provision
of $4,000 for furniture.


I feel that the Minister ought to have had these
figures before him just as Ihave them before me, but
I do not want to labour that point.
12.35 p.m.

Mr. Chairman, I am glad that this question of
toilet facilities has been brought up in respect of
Lodge School, and I think I should take this opportu-
nity to let the Minister know that there are other
schools which have a dire need of equal facilities, and
here I should mention West St. Joseph School. At West
St. Joseph School you have 15 male and 15 female
teachers, and there is one toilet for the fifteen males
and one for the fifteen females. During the term just
ended a few days ago, some of the masters and mis-
tresses found themselves on occasions having to make
use of the toilet provided for the watchman, and one
must come to the conclusion that a state of affairs like
this is not at all conducive to good working conditions,
nor in keeping with the expectations of the profession.
Although there is a Building Inspector attached to the
Ministry of Education, there is often much more red
tape than is necessary to get these things put into
operation; so I am hoping that the Minister will take
note of what I have said in respect of West St. Joseph
School, and have something done in the verynear fu-
ture. I do not think I could have made mention of it at
a better hour than I have, due to the fact that this is
the long vacation, and the Minister will have a good
opportunity to investigate this matter and try to im-
prove the toilet facilities at West St. Joseph in time
for the re-opening of the school next term.

I can say that the toilet arrangements there even
in respect of the children are something like one toi-
let to 100 children. As a matter of fact, I think there
are five toilets to an average of 750 children, and just
as Government intends to do something in respect of
Lodge School, attention should also be paid to West
St. Joseph and other schools. I must tell the Minister
that even at the new Good Shepherd Schools in St.
James, conditions are far from what one would expect
to find in a new school. They have constructed the
school without a road to get to it. These things are
not good, and something ought to be done. We do not
want you as in the past just to attend to Lodge School
this year; as the Minister has told us, provision was
made in last year's Estimates for this work to be
carried out at the school. We admit that the condi-
tions of the soil would have retarded the carrying out
of such work, but these are things which should not
and ought not to have been left unattended for any
length of time, when we know that they cause con-
siderable inconvenience to staff and pupils. I do not
want to find that mention is made of a school like
Lodge School when one knows very well what will be
said about the pupils who attend there, as against the
type of children going to the West St. Joseph School.
I am therefore asking the Minister to investigate
these things during the long vacation period, and do
what can be done at these places to make the children
reasonably happy and comfortable.

In my own constituency, when I was a boy at
Boscobelle School, we had small grounds, but they








1915


.were always kept in a condition where we could
amuse ourselves playing at games. If one were to
go there now and see what the children have got to be
tumbling over each day when they are assembled on
mornings, it is just not good enough. I do not see how
a boy can reasonably be expected to stand at atten-
tion in the line on the grounds of the Boscobelle
School yard. I am asking the Minister to see what
he can do to have these things put right during the
long vacation.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Chairman, I can give
the hon. member the assurance that I will draw all
the points he has made to the attention of the Min-
ister and the Department.



The -question that this Resolution do now pass was
put and resolved in the affirmative without division.



On the motion of Hon. J. C. TUDOR, seconded by Hon.
C. E. TALMA;; Mr. CHAIRMAN reported the passing of one
Resolution in Committee of Supply, and Mr. SPEAKER re-
sumed the Chair and reported accordingly.

On separate motions of Hon. J. C. TUDOR, seconded
by Hon. C. E. TALMA, the Resolution was read a first and
second time and agreed to,


Mr. SPEAKER: The next Order of the Day un-
fortunately may not be proceeded with now, due to the
fact that the Report of the Committee has been laid
only this morning and has not yet been circulated.

THE PENSIONS (PENSIONABLE OFFICES)
(AMENDMENT) ORDER, 1968.

Mr. SPEAKER: The next Order of the Day stands
in the name of the Hon. and Learned Prime
Minister.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I am asking
leave to proceed with this item in the absence of the
Hon. and Learned Prime Minister.

Mr. SPEAKER: The Hon. Leader of the House is
seeking the leave of the House to proceed with Order
No. 3 which stands in the name of the Hon. arid
Learned Prime Minister, and unless there is any ob-
jection, leave will be granted.

There being apparently no objection, leave is
granted the Leader of the House to proceedwith the
passing of a Resolution to approve the Pensions
(Pensionable Offices) (Amendment) Order 1968.
12.45 p.m.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, this Resolution
seeks to give effect to the Order entitled "The Pen-
sions (Pensionable Offices) (Amendment) Order,
1968", which has been made by the Governor-General.
It is an omnibus Order andwhat it really does is that
it tries to bring the Schedule of the Pensions Order
1963 in line with the Civil Establishment (General)


(Amendment) Order of 1966 as amended. The Sche-
dule to the Order sets out in great detail all the
categories of Public Officer or Semi-Public Officer,
as the case may be, who would be affected by this
Amendment. I think hon. members would have seen
the Schedule for themselves. Almost every Ministry
and every Department is involved. I beg to move that
this Resolution do now pass.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.

The question that this Resolution do now pass was
put and resolved in the affirmative without division.



QUESTION TIME

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, the considera-
tion of that Resolution concludes Government
Business for today's sitting. If hon. members have no
objection, perhaps they would like to deal with Ques-
tion Time. We have some Questions which could be
disposed of. I therefore beg to move that Question
Time be now taken. (ASIDES). Mr. Speaker, I really
ought to move the suspension of the appropriate
Standing Order. I therefore beg to move that the
Standing Orders, with the exception of the disciplin-
ary ones, be suspended until 2 o'clock p.m.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.

Mr. SPEAKER: If they were suspended, the
Speaker would rule supreme. (Laughter).

Mr. SMITH: Really, Sir, I did not hear the hon.
member. I was speaking with my colleague, and I
did not hear what the hon. member said about the sus-
pension of the Standing Orders. I would be glad if he
would make the motion now so that I can understand
it, because he may be moving the suspension of the
Standing Orders which might deprive me of my rights.
I would like to know what he is moving before Your
Honour puts it to the vote.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I can give the
hon. member an assurance. We have come to the end
of Government Business and in order to use the time,
I am suggesting that we have Question Time now. In
order to do that, however, we have to suspend the
Standing Orders because we cannot deal with Question
Time under Government Business. I have therefore
moved the suspension, until 2 o'clock p.m., of all
Standing Orders except those Standing Orders which
deal with the maintenance of discipline.-

Mr. SMITH: The hon. member is going to have
the Standing Orders suspended so that we can get
ahead with Question Time. Suppose Question Time
finishes before 2 o'clock, what will happen then?

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: We will do as much Private
Members' Business as can be done betweenthenand
2 o'clock.

The question that the Standing Orders with the ex-
ception of the disciplinary ones be suspended until 2







1916


o'clpck was put and resolved in the affirmative with-
out division.
Hon. J. C. TUDOR: I beg to move that Question
Time be now taken.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.

The question was put and resolved inthe affirma-
tive without division.

ORDERS OR REGULATIONS RE CIVIL SERVANTS
APPOINTED AS DIRECTORS

Mr. SPEAKER: It is now Question Time. I have
been informed that the Oral Reply has been laid to
Question No. 219, standing in the name of the hon.
senior member for Christ Church.

Mr. St. JOHN: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the
Prime Minister and Minister of Finance:

1. Will the Minister state whether there are
any General Orders and/or Regulations or Adminis -
trative directions relating to Civil Servants beingap-
pointed as directors of:

(a) Public Companies in which the Govern-
ment is not a shareholder;

(b) Private Companies in which the Gov-
ernment is not a shareholder?

If the answer to the above is "No",will the Min-
ister state whether Government intends to pass any
such regulations?

2. What is Government's policy in relation
to such appointments of Civil Servants by such
companies?

3. Will the Minister state whether any Civil
Servant have applied to the Prime Minister and Min-
isterof Finance for permission to be directors of:

(a) Public Companies inwhich the Gov-
ernment is not a shareholder;

(b) Private Companies in which the Gov-
ernment is not a shareholder?

4. Will the Minister state whether per-
mission has been granted to any Civil Servant or ser-
vants above the rank of senior Clerk, and if so, what
post or posts are held by such Civil Servants and in
which department of Government?

5, Will the Minister state what criteria are
taken into account in granting such permission?


6. Will the Minister state if any of the above
have applied to the Public Service Commission for
such permission?
12.55 p.m.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, the Reply is as
follows:


1. No. It is proposed to include this subject
in General Orders presently being pre-
pared.

2. At present the policy is to consider each
application on its merits bearing in mind
the type of business of the Company, the
frequency of meetings, etc. Permission
may be given on the understanding that it
would be withdrawn if at any time it is
considered that the officer's official! duties
conflict with his duties as a Director.


3. (a)
(b)


None.
Two.


4. Yes. A Senior Registrar, Queen Elizabeth
Hospital and a Permanent Secretary -
Ministry of Home Affairs.

5. Answered at 2.

6. No.

Mr. St. JOHN: In respect of the Senior Registrar
of the Queen Elizabeth Hospital, will the Minister
state what type of activity the Company carries on in
which he has been given permission to be a Director?

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: I am afraid I have no informa-
tion on that matter to put at the disposal of the hon.
and learned member. If, however, he wishes me to
get it, I see no difficulty in getting the information;
but I cannot give it to him now.

Mr. St. JOHN: In respect of the Permanent
Secretary in the Ministry of Home Affairs, in what
Company was permission granted for him to be a
Director?

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: understand that it is Sandy
Lane.

Mr. St. JOHN: Does the Minister know whether
any application has ever been made by Sandy Lane
for Work Permits?

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: I would not be able to tell
the hon. member this.

Mr. St. JOHN: Does the Minister not concede
that there is a possibility of conflict of interest arising
if an application were made from Sandy Lane to the
Permanent Secretary who is the Chief Administrative
Officer in charge of the Department which deals with
Work Permits?


Hon. J. C. TUDOR: I do not see it quite that way.
One must assume that when he is acting in his capa-
city as Permanent Secretary of the Ministry of Home
Affairs, he knows what the Government's policy
is, and he will execute it.

Mr. St. JOHN: I thank you, Sir. If that is the
standard of morality of the Government, thank you,
Sir.







1917


Mr. SPEAKER: I do not follow that last supple-
mentary question.

Mr. St. JOHN: It was not intended for you to
follow, Sir.

Mr. SPEAKER: Then it should not have been
asked.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Surely, Mr. Speaker, the hon.
member is not saying that fora Civil Servant to car-
ry out the policy of this Government is a reflection
on his integrity! I hope he is not saying that.

Mr. St. JOHN: I am not saying thatat all. What
I am saying is that Government should recognize that
there is such a thing as appearance, andthat no per-
son in this country would ever recognize that if Sandy
Lane puts in for a Work Permit it would be treated in
the same manner as any other hotel.

Mr. SPEAKER: Is there a question mark at the
end of that?

Mr. St. JOHN: No, Sir. The Minister replied.

STANDPOST AT BAYLEY'S ALLEY

Mr. SPEAKER: No. 179 standing in the name of
the hon. junior member for St. George at page 12, top
left hand corner.

Mr. HOPPIN: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the Min-
ister of Communications and Works:

Is the Government aware that there is no stand-
post at Bayley's Alley, St. George?

2. Is the Government aware that the nearest
standpost to the said district is three quarter miles
distant?

3. Is the Government aware that Sweet Vale No. 1
Pumping Station is situated in the said district?

4. Will Government take steps to have a stand-
post erected at Bayley's Alley as soon as possible?

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, the reply is as
follows:

1. There was a standpost at th e top of
Bayley's Alley which has been resisted
further into the Alley because of unsatis-
factory drainage at the former site.

2. Does not arise.

3. Yes, Sirl

4. Does not arise.

PSYCHIATRIC TREATMENT FOR CHILDREN

Mr. SPEAKER: No. 158 standing in the name of
the hon. junior member forSt. Peter on page 7, right
hand column.


Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the appro-
priate Minister:-

1. In view of the growing numbers of chil-
dren of school age now becoming patients
of the Mental Hospital, would Government
treat as a priority securing the services
of one ormore psychiatrists to be attached
to the Ministries of Health and Education,
and/or a number of psychiatric social
workers whose prime duty it will be to
assist the entire school population through
working in collobaration with Head-
teachers of the several schools in this
island?

2. What steps have been taken, if any, to pro-
vide a ward at the Mental Hospital for
housing mental patients, some being of as
tender an age as eight years of age, so that
they be removed from the chronic cases
housed at the said Institution?


Hon,
follows:


C. E. TALMA: Mr. Speaker, the reply is as


Out of a population of approximately 70,000
children between the ages of 8 and 15 years in Bar-
bados, there are at present 12 inthe Mental Hospital.
Four of these have been admitted over three years
ago, six for over one and two for over two months for
observation. Seven attend school at the Mental Hos-
pital while five do not because of serious mental re-
tardation. One teacher is specially trained in mental
subnormality while another is completing a similar
course in the United Kingdom. A recommendation
for posts of Child Psychiatrist and Clinic Psycholo-
gist is under study.

Under the proposed Development Plan for the
Ministry of Health it is anticipated that construction
of a Children's Ward at the Mental Hospital will
commence during the financial year 1969-70.

ACCOMMODATION AT QUEEN
ELIZABETH HOSPITAL

Mr. SPEAKER: No. 159, likewise standing inthe
name of the hon. junior member for St. Peter at page
7, right hand column.

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the appro-
priate Minister:-

Since the opening of the Queen Elizabeth Hospi-
tal have all the Wards of this Institution been put
to use for providing accommodation for the sick?

2. If the answer to the above is in the affirma-
tive, when was the last Ward made available?

3. If the answer is in the negative, will the
Minister state why all of the Wards of this Insti-
tution are not in use?

4. Would Government consider the necessity
for providing a sick-bay at the Queen Elizabeth








1918


Hospital to be used exclusively for the Nursing
Staff attached to the said Hospital?
1.05 p.m.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Speaker, the Reply is
as follows: -

"1. No, Sir.

2. Does not apply.

3. The only ward which remains unopened is
the ophthalmic ward for children. This is due to the
unavailability of trained staff. Patients are however
taken care of in the female section.

4. A sick bay is already provided at theQueen
Elizabeth Hospital for the Nursing Staff attached to
the hospital."

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, I should like to en-
quire from the Minister when this sickbaywas made
available, and whether it was since this question has
been asked.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Speaker, as far as I am
aware, two rooms have been allocated for providing
a sick bay for nurses at the Institution, not since
the question has been asked, but for some time. I
think the matter has been looked into again and
greater facilities have been added, if that is what the
hon. member is driving at.

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, does the Minister say
that greater facilities have been added since this ques -
tion has been asked?

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I said that the whole ques-
tion of the allocation of beds, especially private beds,
has been under consideration, and I am of the opinion
that even more facilities have been added recently
for the sick nurses at the Hospital.

QUESTION RE DISCHARGE OF FEMALE
FROM HOSPITAL

Mr. SPEAKER: Question No. 195 also stands in
the name of the hon. junior member for St. Peter.

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, the question reads as
follows: -

To enquire of the appropriate Minister: -

Is the Government aware that a female was ad-
mitted to Ward B2 of the Queen Elizabeth Hospital
around 2 a.m., on 15th May, 1968, was hospitalized
for approximately 14 hours and then discharged?
2. Is the Government aware that the said female
gave birth to a baby less than 3 hours after she was
discharged from Hospital?

3. Will the Government state if this female was
discharged because of over-crowding or because she
was a patient who had received pre-natal care at
Enmore Health Centre, or what other reason, if any?


4. If she was discharged because of over-
crowding in the Ward what steps Government
propose taking to relieve such overcrowding in the
future?

5. Have instructions been given that "Enmore
Patients" be not admitted to Ward B2 without prior
reference to the Gynaecologist?

6. If the answer to No. 5 is in the affirmative,
does not strict observance of such instructions en-
danger the lives of patients and un-born babies as
well?

Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Speaker, the Reply is
as follows:-

"1. Yes, Sir.

2. No., Sir.

3. The conditions in the ward that day were
of some concern. There were five patients
in excess of the normal accommodation.
Some of the patients in the ward were
dangerously ill and demanded extra care.
The condition of this patient who was un-
able to indicate when the baby was due
was checked and found to be quite satis -
factory.

4. Provision has been made in the Capital
Estimates for the construction of a Mater-
nity Hospital to relieve pressures of the
Queen Elizabeth Hospital.

5. No, Sir.

6. Does not arise."

Mr. St. JOHN: Is the Minister saying that they
are going to create another Maternity Hospital like
the one they had at "Verona" at Bank Hall, where
the Local Government Commissioner's Office now is?

Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Speaker, in elaboration,
just as we have a District Hospital which is mainly
a Maternity Hospital at Oistins, in like manner we
propose having one to be placed in St. George; but
owing to the density of population in the metropoli-
tan area of St. Michael, the matter is under con-
sideration as to whether it should be placedat Lodge
Hill which is bordering on St. George, so as to serve
St. George and St. Michael. It would therefore be a
District Hospital merely devoted to maternity cases.

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, do we understand the
Minister to say that this Hospital will be exclusively
for maternity cases and not like "Verona"? Was
"Verona" not a hospital exclusively for maternity
cases?

Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Speaker, I thought I had
made myself clear. It is a District Hospital like the
one at Oistins dealing mainly with maternity cases.
Isn't that clear?








1919


Mr. HINDS: Does the Minister want to delete the
words "not like Verona"?

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, as a supplementary,
will the Minister let this House know if and when it is
Government's intention to open the St. Andrew District
Hospital?

Mr. SPEAKER: I am afraid I do not regard that
as a proper supplementary, but if the Ministercares
to vouchsafe the information, I do not stop him.

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, that is a nice way to
tell the Minister not to answer, but does the Minister
consider that if they open the St. Andrew District
Hospital it will relieve the Queen Elizabeth Hospital?

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I agree with the hon. mem-
ber and we will take urgent steps to see that the hos -
pital is in a habitable state to be re-opened as soon
as possible.

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, is the Minister aware
that patients in Ward B2 on 15th May heard with their
own ears the Gynaecologist at the Queen Elizabeth
Hospital querying nurses and a junior Doctor as to
why patients who had been treated at the Enmore
Health Centre had been admitted to this particular
Ward without his instructions?

Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Speaker, if the hon.
member would like me to give him some more in-
formation on what the Gynaecologist had to say, I am
quite willing to do that, but Iwas not there on the night
in question.

Mr. SPEAKER: I do not think the hon. member
can say what these patient heard with their own ears.
Let the hon. member proceed.

Hon. C.E. TALMA: The: seniorObstetrician said
this: "On 15th May, 1968, I made my routine check
of all patients in this Ward starting at 2 p.m. Some-
time between then and 3 o' clock we saw this patient
concerning whom I discovered (1) that she was an un-
booked patient and had been seen in the unit for the
first time at 2.45 a.m. on 15.5.68; (2) that she was
aged 23 and bearingher fourth child; (3) that she was
not sure when the baby was due; (4) that her condition
had been checked and found quite satisfactory, but she
was not in established labour.
1.15 p.m.

"I verified these facts as far as possible. The
conditions in the Ward that day were of some concern.
There were five patients more than the quota for
which we are established. Some of the patients in the
Ward were dangerously ill and demanded extra care."

Those are the Minutes which I am reading from
and I hope that the hon. member is satisfied.

Mr. HINDS: I am not satisfied at all. Mr. Speaker,
would the Minister explain to me if an unbooked pa-
tient, or if this patient happened to be an unbooked


patient, because she had had previous treatment at
the Enmore Health Centre and the Doctors who ad-
mitted her to the Ward B-2 were doubtful as to
whether or not the Obstetrician would have had her
there that is the main trouble and that is why she
was sent out.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: The Doctor goes on further
and states: "I therefore decided that Agatha Sherry
would be one of the patients who would be sent home, as
the Unit has no ante-natal Wards and our facilities
are severely limited by this. There are provisions
for patients who do not demand Specialist care which
include their admission and treatment in the Unit if
bed and professional facilities are available at the
time."

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, are we to understand
from the Hon. Minister that the situation at Ward B2
at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital has developed to such
a stage I do not know if "developed" is the appli-
cable term "degraded" or rather "degenerated"
to such a stage that when a patient is away from giving
birth to a child three hours, up to the time of three
hours before the patient gives birth to the child, the
patient is expected to tell the Doctor when the baby
will be delivered? That is what the Minister told us,
that up to three hours before, this patient was expec-
ted to tell the Doctor when she would give birth to
the child. Is that the case at the Queen Elizabeth
Hospital now?

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I can onlyreadwhatthe
Doctor has reported. He said that her condition had
been checked and found quite satisfactory, but she
was not in established labour. The hon. member would
have to ask another supplementary question or another
substantive question if he wants to go into that mat-
ter. I cannot give the hon. member any more informa-
tion.


Mr. St. JOHN: Will the Minister not agree that
if there were a proper District Nursing Service, the
pressure on the Queen Elizabeth Hospital would be
relieved District Nursing Services which deal with
maternity cases where Nurses can go to the homes
and give advice and deliver babies?

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I agree with that and I will
make a special note to see that the service is insti-
tuted.

Mr. St. JOHN: The Local Government used to
run this Service, and all the parishes had District
Midwives. Perhaps, the Minister can investigate that.

Mr. SPEAKER: Will the Minister investigate
that? Is that the question?

Mr. St. JOHN: Yes, Sir.

Mr. HINDS: I wonder if the Minister could tell
us if the Obstetrician and Gynaecologist at the Hos-
pital, whatever they might be, if this is a case that








1920


they only know labour when it is established? The Min-
ister told us that there was not established labour,
and that is what they are saying three hours before
the baby was delivered. At what time did the Obste-
trician expect to find establish labour?

Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Speaker, I am afraid
that this question is beyond me. I have not been medi-
cally trained, and lam not an'Obstetrician. Because
I am a Minister, I do not claim to have supreme
knowledge of these matters. I am afraid I can seek
advice from the hon. member who has asked the ques -
tion, or somebody from the other side. (Laughter.).

Mr. HINDS: Are we to understand the Minister
to come to this House and read replies and not even
understand what the replies mean?

Hon. C. E. TALMA: That is an unfair question.
You askedme when labour should be established and
all that. If the Doctor cannot say when, until it is
established when it is established and when it is
not, it is a matter for you, you and the Doctor and
the lady in question.

Mr. HINDS: That is all right, Sir, but what we
are askig is this: Here is a case where the Minis-
ter is telling us that his Doctor at his Institution is
not expected to know this; but are we to understand
that the patient is expected to know when labour has
been established?

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I never said that the Doctor
would not know; I said that I was speaking for myself.
I suggested that the hon. member should ask substan-
tive questions and let the Doctor have an opportunity
to reply to those questions. I am not competent to
reply to them. That is all I said. The Doctor would
be quite competent to do that; probably you are, but
I am not.

EXTENSION OF FAIRCHILD STREET
AND CHEAPSIDE MARKETS

Mr. SPEAKER: Question No. 183, standing in the
name of the hon. senior member for St. James. That
is on page 12, right-hand column.

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the appro-
priate Minister:-

Is the Minister aware that the Fairchild Street
and Cheapside Markets are alreadytoo congested to
cope with the trafficking in meat, vegetables and fruit
that daily takes place there?

Will the Minister take steps to have the said
Markets extended?

Hon. A, DaC. EDWARDS: The Reply to the hon.
member's question is as follows:-

No, Sir.

Records show that it is only on Saturdays and on
the day immediately preceding certain public holidays


that the facilities provided at the Fairchild Street and
Cheapside markets are taxed to full capacity. Con-
gestion is caused by vehicular traffic in parking areas
and steps are being taken to regulate the movement
and parking of vehicles to relieve some of the con-
gestion.

The Government does not propose to enlarge the
Fairchild Street and Cheapside markets at present.

Mr. GRAIG: Mr. Speaker, judging from the Min-
ister's reply, I wonder if the Minister would think it
necessary then to have markets in places like Oistins'
Town and in St. James just along the Fitts Village
area so as to cope with this traffic which you will
probably have, particularly on Saturdays.
1.25 p.m.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: There is no provision
for the establishment of a market in the Prospect
Area. The hon. member will remember that, when we
were discussing the Estimates, there was a token
vote inserted to provide market facilities in Speights -
town and Oistins. Instructions have just been given to
acquire land where the new market at Oistins will be
sited.

Mr. SPEAKER: May I say this: I allowed that
supplementary with some considerable reluctance. I
am not allowing any supplementary questions to deal
with the other 10 parishes in Barbados.

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, will the Minister state
whether the erection of a market at Tweedside Road
will relieve the congestion at the Fairchild Street
market?

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: A feasibility studywill
have to be carried out on that, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. HINDS: I understand the Minister to say that
it is the parking of vehicles that is causing the con-
gestion in Fairchild Street and Cheapside. I wonder
whether the Minister propose to provide parking
facilities for the vehicles he intends to remove from
these areas?

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: That is not under my
portfolio, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. HINDS: Am I to understand that it is in the
Minister's portfolio to remove the cars, but it is not
in his portfolio to make provision for parking them?

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: The answer to that, Mr.
Speaker, is "No."

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, does the Minister un-
derstand what he means between "Yes" and "No"
at times? He just gets up and says "No."

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, it is not
within my portfolio to provide parking facilities any
place for anybody.
Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, will the Minister tell
us what method he intends employing to move these
vehicles from the market area?








1921


Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: The Police.

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, are we to understand
that the Minister is just standing by to put the Police
on these poor people who park in the market areas to
make a living? (ASIDES.)


Mr. Speaker, I am making a supplementary and
not making a statement. Here is a case where people
go there on Fridays and Saturdays to earn a living on
those two days to serve them for the rest of the week.
Are we to understand that the Minister intends to do
all he can and to bring the Police Force to move out
these people, without caring whether or not they eat
or drink the day after?

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, the hon.
member knows better than I do that the vehicles which
park in the Fairchild Street Market and cause the con-
gestion are not the vehicles owned by people who are
selling there. They are the vehicles of people who
conveniently go there instead of going to a Parking
Lot where they have to pay in Independence Square,
or down by the Wharf, or over the River. Instead of
going in those places where parking facilities are
provided, they go into the market area and park for
convenience, and this is what causes the congestion.
It is nothing to do with the vehicles of hucksters. We
have given instructions to prevent such vehicles from
coming in and congesting the market. Is not that rea-
sonable?

Mr. HINDS: Have instructions been given to the
Police to report these people for committing
offences?

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: There is a Market
Superintendent, and it is his duty to see that the Regu-
lations are carried out; it is also his duty to do so
with the assistance of the Police. I am not calling in
the Police; it will be the Market Superintendent who
will call on the Police to assist him in relieving the
congestion when there is congestion out there.

Mr. HINDS: Before the congestion started, was it
not the duty of the same officer to see that there was
no congestion at all?

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: I am sure that if the
officer is on the spot he would try to see that there
is no congestion, but some people do not look at a man
in civilian clothes. If a Policeman in uniform tells
a man to move, he will move, but if the Market
Superintendent tells a man to move, he is not going to
do so. The hon. member knows that, too. Perhaps the
hon. member, might have been one of the chief
offenders.


Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, the Ministerinhis
reply to the question said that it was not necessary
to have the markets extended. I wonder whether the
Minister is aware of the fact that, along Baxters
Road, at the corner of Hindsbury Road and Oistins,
-all along the street people sell their vegetables just


-because there is a lack of accommodation in the mar-
kets? I am not dealing with any congestion in traffic.
I am talking about the facilities in the markets for
people who have things to sell.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: The people inBaxters
Road have regular people who purchase from them.
The people who are going to purchase things from a
huckster in Baxters Road are not goingto go to Fair-
child Street Market. If the hon. member was suggest-
ing the erection of a market in Baxters Road, then that
would be a horse of a different colour. The people who
are going to shop doors to purchase things from the
hucksters in Baxters Road will not go to the Fairchild
Street Market.

Mr. CRAIG: From the Minister's reply, I can only
come to the conclusion that it was not necessary to
even build the Fairchild Street Market.

Mr. SPEAKER: What is the question?

Mr. CRAIG: I am leading up to the question, Mr.
Speaker.

Mr. SPEAKER: I was awaiting it.

Mr. CRAIG: I was developing the question. From
the Minister's reply, one can only contend that it was
not necessary to even have the Fairchild Street
Market.

Mr. SPEAKER: It may be my fault, but I cannot
detect the question.

Mr. CRAIG: I am developing the question; I am
developing the point.

Mr. SPEAKER: The point, but not a questionyet.

Mr. CRAIG: I am asking a question in keeping
with the Minister's reply.

Mr. SPEAKER: Proceed to ask the question.

Mr. CRAIG: The Minister said just nowthat they
plan to carry out a feasibility study. That was in re-
ply to the senior member for St. Joseph.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, I did not
say that we plan to carry out a feasibility study.

Mr. CRAIG: Was it notnecessaryforyouto do
that before you gave the reply to the question?

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, perhaps
the hon. member came to town late, but if he were in
the area before the Market was built he would have
known that in the Fairchild Street area there was a
natural market. People used to put up old sheets of
galvanized iron, canvas and cardboxes in order to
make their own market in Fairchild Street.
1.35 p.m.

The Fairchild Street area was a natural market
site, and what has been done is that the Government








1922


of the day came in and made provision for shelter.,
and provided a proper market there for the people.
What has happened at Fairchild Street is happening
at Oistins and at Speightstown today. These are pri-
orities, and this is where we are putting up new mar-
kets. What will happen next is that you will study the
areas and see where the people assemble to sell and
purchase and provide a market. Eagle Hall was another
natural market site before the market was put there,
but certainly not Six Roads; and the hon. member
knows that too.

Mr. HINDS: Am I to understand, Mr. Speaker,
that the Minister will give consideration to the erec -
ting of a market at the head of Baxters Road, that is
to say, at the bottom of Barbarees Hill and the head
of Westbury Road to relieve the congestion by these
hawkers on Baxters Road?

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: If the Government is
satisfied that there is need for it.

Mr. St. JOHN: There is just one question arising
out of the answer the Minister gave in connection
with the removal of the vehicles which now park in
Fairchild Street. Does the Minister not consider that
if he orders the removal or prohibits the parking of
vehicles in that square opposite the Fairchild Street
market, it is likely to have a considerable effect upon
the pattern of trade which attracted to that area by
reason of the provision of such facilities?

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: No, Mr. Speaker. There
is a car park immediately opposite the area, and when
the market square is congested, the car park at Inde-
pendence Square is not congested. People only park
there for convenience. If they go into Independence
Square they have to pay; they do not pay anybody there,
and it is 'stealing a park.'

Mr. St. JOHN: Mr. Speaker, people park there
because they want to go into the market to shop.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, the hon.
member knows that people go and park their cars
there for a whole day, not because they want to go to
the market to shop.

Mr. St.JOHN: Butthewayto do that is not to
prohibit parking. Would the Minister consider putting
a specific period of time for which they can park there -
carry out shopping business in the Fairchild Street
market?

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: That is the most sensi-
ble question I have heard asked. I will give considera-
tion to that.

QUESTION RE WATER SERVICE AT
BRIDGE GAP, BLACK ROCK

Mr. SPEAKER: Question No. 185 stands in the
name of the hon. senior member for St. James.

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, the question reads as
follows:


To enquire of the Minister of Communications
and Works:-

Is the Minister aware that there is a water main
and a standpost at the road known as Bridge Gap,
Black Rock, St. Michael, but that no water service is
yet available to the residents of the said district?

2. Will the Minister see to it that a water ser-
vice is provided without delay?

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, the reply is as
follows:

"1. There is no water main along the major
portion of Bridge Gap. There are however two stand-
posts one at either end of Bridge Gap.
Taere is also a standpost enclosure near the centre
of Bridge Gap but a standpost has not yet been pro-
vided for this enclosure due to the absence of the
water main.

2. The laying of this main together with the
provision of a third standpost will be considered when
the current year's Additional Mains and Standposts
programme is being finalised."

QUESTION RE TRUNK HIGHWAY FROM RIVER
ROAD TO CONSTITUTION ROAD

Mr. SPEAKER: Question No. 207 stands in the
name of the hon. senior member for St. James.

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, the Question reads as
follows:

To enquire of the Minister of Communications
and Works: -

Will the Minister see to it that the road aback of
the Queen Elizabeth Hospital leading from River Road
to Constitution Road be repaired so as to form a trunk
highway to divert the traffic from Belmont Road into
the City?

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, the reply is as
follows:

"The proposal to construct a road aback of the
Queen Elizabeth Hospital leading from River Road to
Constitution Road is receiving the attention of the
Ministry."

QUESTION RE USE OF ARTIFICIAL SWEETENERS

Mr. SPEAKER: Question No. 184 stands in the
name of the hon. senior member for St. James.

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, the Question reads as
follows:

To enquire of the appropriate Minister:-

Will the Minister state whether Bim Beverages
Limited has been granted the right by Government
or any Government sponsored agency to make use of








1923


artificial sweeteners in the manufacture of soft
drinks?

2. What is Government's policy as to the use
of artificial sweeteners in the production of soft
drinks?

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker, the reply
is as follows:

"1. No, Sir.

2. Government policy as to the use of arti-
ficial sweeteners in the production of soft drinks is
as follows:-

(1) the importation of artificial sweetners,
in pure form, to be-esed in the manufac -
ture of soft drinks will not be allowed;

(ii) a limited quantity of artificially sweeten-
ed concentrated flavouring will be allow-
ed importation by a manufacturer pro-
vided that -

(a) the drink to be manufactured carries a re -
gistered brand name and is being manu-
factured under a franchise granted by the
Company under whose name the drink is
registered;

(b) the marketing of the drinks will be carried
out in special containers acceptedby Gov-
ernment (bottles or tins) bearing the parti-
cular brand name and on which it is stated
that the contents are artificially
sweetened."

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the hon.
member is aware that in London now there is a ban
on artificial sweeteners which might probably find
their way into Barbados due to their being detri-
mental to the health of many of the English residents.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker, suffi-
cient unto the day is the evil thereof.

Mr. St. JOHN: Will the Minister state whether
Government's policy was formulated in the light of
that knowledge or not?

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Of what knowledge, Mr.
Speaker?

Mr. St. JOHN: That it has now been proven that
artificial sweeteners have a harmful effect on the
health.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: No. There are no defi-
nite facts up to now. We have received no definite
facts from scientists or health people here that it is.
There have been experiments carried out to see
whether it is harmful or not, but we have seen nothing
definite on it. One of the main reasons for artificial
sweeteners being controlled was because Barbados is
a sugar-producing country, and the sugar producers


and people from the Commonwealth Sugar Agreement
had asked the United Kingdom to control artificial
sweeteners so as to have better markets for sugar,
as the amount used is about 300 to one. A pound of
artificial sweeteners is worth approximately 300
pounds of sugar.

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, I should like to en-
quire from the Minister over what length of time have
his scientist s been carrying out these experiments
to determine the effect that the artificial sweetners
can have on the health of the population here.
1.45 p.m.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Not 'our' Scientists, Mr.
Speaker; I have read where scientist have been car-
rying out experiments in the United States and in
the United Kingdom. Some think they have been, and
some think not, but there has been no definite deci-
sion arrived at. I have got to get my information
from the Health Department here withrespectto
whether it is considered harmful or not.

Mr. HINDS: Have tests been carried out on the
artificial sweetners which will be used in this island
or which are presently being used in the Island? If
so, when was the last test carried out?

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: One of the comments
of the Health Department with respect to artificial
sweetners is this: I am quoting. Some Scientist and
Health experts have is sued warnings against the wide-
spread use of artificial sweetners in all forms, ex-
cept saccharine, and have pointed out that there is
evidence to prove that these sweeteners are dangerous
to life and health."

The Chief Medical Officer has commended as
follows: "I think this use of cyclamates as sweeteners"
in food or drink should be prohibited. Recent litera-
ture confirms that there is still not enough known
of the possible harmful effects of cyclamates. You
will note that in both Reports of the U. K. Food Ad-
ditives and Contaminates Committee on cyclamates it
is recommended that any Regulations made as a re-
sult of these Reports should be reviewed five years
after the date of making. The Report of the Pharma-
cology Sub-Committee is also significant especially
where they consider that Cyclohexylamine, Metabolic
end product of cyclamates, should be fully examined
from the toxological point of view within the next three
years as a matter of urgency."

Mr. CRAIG: I wonder if the Minister could tell
us what is the trade mark of the artificial sweetners
used by Bim Beverages Limited.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker, for a little
more information Ican continue a little further. This
is from the Director of Medical Services: "If beve-
rages with artificial sweetners will be manufactured
here, legislation should be introduced with special
reference to the type of sweetners allowed and the
labelling of the bottle. Similar provisions should be
made to control the importation of food or drink
containing artificial sweeteners."







1924


Mr. HINDS: Can the Minister tell us if cycla-
mates will be used in the artificial sweetening of
drinks in this Island?
Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: As far as I know, no.
Saccharine is not used, but artificial sweeteners
might contain cyclamates and some of these things
come already in essences, in essence form, as a
concentrate.

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, all I am asking the Min-
ister to tellthis Hon. House is whether cyclamates
will be used in the artificial sweeteningof Bim Beve-
rages or in any other beverages in this Island. That
is straight and plain.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: There are certain drinks
imported into this Island at present by Coca-Cola
and other people in cans, and these contain cycla-
mates and are specially produced for diabetics and
people suffering from over weight. This Company is
now producing this type of drink. Rather than the
importation of it, coming into the Island and selling
at very high prices, these drinks will now be pro -
duced and sold at the same price as any normal
drink. In other words, a normal coke might have been
sold for ten cents as a sugar-sweetned drink, while
for thirty-five cents as an artificially sweetened drink
for people suffering from diabetes, sugar and other
weight problems. They will now be able, instead of
buying the same Coca-Cola,which has been sweeten -
ed by cyclamate s rather than by sugar and paying
35 cents for it, to buy a similar drink, which reduces
the weight at a far cheaper price at the same
price that the normal drink of the same standard
will be sold for.

Mr. St. JOHN: I heard the Minister read, in
answer to a question, something from the Report of
the Director of Medical Services which said that the
use of cyclamates should be prohibited. Does the
Minister not consider now the fact that, because of
the lower price of this drink, there will be a greater
degree of consumption and thereby greater possi-
bility of harming the inhabitants of this country if
you do not prohibit the use of cyclamates? Whether it
comes by Coca-Cola, Bim or any other Company, the
thing is to prohibit the use of cyclamates in accor -
dance with the recommendations of the Director of
Medical Services.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker, he recom-
mended that any cyclamates used should be reviewed
after five years. I read distinctly from the file, that
any Regulations made as a result of the Reports on
cyclamates should be reviewed within five years.

Mr. St. JOHN: I heard the Minister read I do
not know whether I am correct or not that the use
of cyclamates should be prohibited.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: All artificial sweeten-
ers are not cyclamates.

Mr. St. JOHN: Very well. Will the Minister state
whether the ones used in Barbados whether by Coca-
Cola or Bim Beverages are cyclamates or not?


Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: I have not got any in-
formation on that.

Mr. CRAIG: I wonder if the Minister can tell us
the trade mark of the artificial sweetener used by
Bim, Coca Cola or Barbados Bottlers Limited.
1.55 p.m.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: The only drink being
used by them is a drink to be manufactured carrying
the registered brand "Diet -Rite" by Royal Crown
International Limited, or "Tab" by Coca- Cola Com-
pany. It is being manufactured under the franchise
granted by the Company in whose name the brand is
registered.


Mr. St. JOHN: What we are asking for is the
constituents of the sweeteners. Is it Cyclamates or
what?

Hon. G.G. FERGUSSON: It is artificially sweeten -
ed concentrates; I cannot say whether it is Cycla-
mates or what; I do not know.

Mr. St. JOHN: If it is Cyclamates, then the Min-
ister should immediately review his policy.

Mr. CRAIG: In the light of the Minister's reply
I wonder if the Hon. Minister of Health would take
it upon himself to make a statement in connection
with what the Hon. Minister who has just sat down
has said. He said that the Directors of Medical
Services prohibited Cyclamates. The Hon. Minister
of Health should make a statement in the interest of
the people in Barbados.

Mr. SPEAKER: I am afraid that would notarise
as a supplementary.

Mr. St. JOHN: Does the Minister agree that the
whole community in Barbados will be in danger if
Cyclamates are going to be used here?

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: No more in danger than
when we had other concentrates like "Tab" and so on.

Mr. St. JOHN: Does the Minister agree thatthe
consumption of "Tab" in Barbados is inconsequen-
tial because of its high price?

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Ihave not heard the hon.
member, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. St. JOHN: Will the Minister not agree that,
if the price of "Diet-Rite" is muchless than "Tab"
the consumption is likely to be greater?


Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: The price is no cheap-
er than any of the other drinks. I said that it would
be cheaper than the imported products like "Tab"
and "Coca Cola", as a non-sugar drink. In other
words, there is a "Coca Cola" drink made from
sugar and sold at 109'. There is also a "Coca Cola"
drink made from concentrates artificially sweetened







1925


concentrates and sold at 35 4. The new product,
which is not using sugar, is made to compete against
the imported stuff that is being sold at 35. in this
country, and they are using the same type of non-
sugar drinks. (Asides). It is not a cheaper drink.
The drink that is made from concentrates is no
cheaper than the normal drink, but it willbe cheaper
as compared with "Tab" or the other non-sweetened
drinks non-sweetened with sugar. In other words,
diabetics must pay a very high price for a drink if
they must have a soft drink, but they will now be able
to buy a far cheaper drink than I would. say, the drink
produced by sugar a medical drink, as I would call
it.

Mr. St. JOHN: I want to know if cyclamates are
prohibited, whether by "Coca Cola", "Bim", "Ju C"
or any drink at all, because it is dangerous to health.

Mr. SPEAKER: It is now two o' clock.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I do not know
if hon. members would like to go on for another
quarter of an hour.

Mr. St. JOHN: It is lunch time.

Mr. SPEAKER: Normally 10 minutes might be
allowed to complete a particular matter under dis -
cussion. I do not know whether the hon. member pro-
.poses to return after lunch or not.

Mr. St. JOHN: We cannot complete any new
matter that may arise in 10 minutes.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker,. I understand
that the hon. junior member for the City, with the
consent of hon. members, wanted to get rid of two
short and noncontroversial items under Private
Members' Business. We have no objection. If the hon,
member wishes, I am suggesting that he could do them
now.

Mr. SPEAKER: I cannot allow more than 10 min-
utes after the luncheon hour.

Mr. LYNCH: I can assure you, Mr. Speaker, that
these measures are not controversial.

Mr. SPEAKER: I take it that there is no objec-
tion to the hon. member proceeding with the matters.
What are the numbers?

Mr. LYNCH: Mr. Speaker, the first is the se-
cond reading of a Bill to incorporate the Barbados
Association for Mentally Retarded Children.


I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second
time.

Mr. HINDS: I beg to second that.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, we have to regu-
larise this. I should really move that Private Mem-
bers' Business be now taken, and I now formally do
so.
Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.

The question was put and resolved in the affirra-
tive without division.
PRIVATE MEMBERS' BUSINESS

Mr. SPEAKER: The Hon. junior memberforthe
City wants to move No. 4 be the immediate Order of
the Day, and, unless there is an objection, leave will
be granted.

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, Iamnotobjectingto
anything, but I want to be clear on this point. We are
taking Private Members' Business now. I would like
to know whether we will be adjourning after the hon.
junior member for the City finishes, or whether we
will be going on to other Private Members' Business
until the time runs out.

Mr. SPEAKER: We cannot proceed after 10
minutes past two o' clock. We will have to decide
to come back at 2.30 p.m. You only have five
minutes more to go.

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, I am willing to ac-
commodate the hon. junior member for the City,
but he cannot do the job in five minutes. We are too
near the border line.

Mr. SPEAKER: This Sitting stands suspended
until 2.30 p.m.
2.05 p.m.


On Resumption.
ADJOURNMENT

Mr. SPEAKER: It is more than two minutes past
the hour to which this sitting was automatically
suspended, and there is not a single hon. member in
his seat. I am afraid I have no alternative but to ad-
journ this House until next Tuesday at 12 o' clock
noon, and that I now do.

This House now stands adjourned until Tuesday,
6th August, 1968, at 12 noon.
2.35 p.m.











THE


SENATE


(OFFICIAL REPORT)


SECOND SESSION OF 1966 71


THE SENATE
Thursday, 7th December, 1967.
The Senate met in the Senate Chamber, Public
Buildings, at 2 o'clock p. m. today.


PRESENT

His Honour Senator E. S. ROBINSON, C.B.E.,
(President); His Honour Senator C.Asquith PHILLIPS,
B.A., (Deputy President); Senator the Honourable
H. A. VAUGHAN, O.B.E., Q.C., (Minister of State and
Leader of the Senate); Senator the Honourable P. M.
GREAVES, B.A., (Minister of Home Affairs); Senator
the Honourable F. G. SMITH, Q.C.,(Attorney General);
Senator the Honourable L. E. SANDIFORD, M.A.,
(Minister of Education); Senator H. Odessa GITTENS,
M.R.S.H. (Parliamentary Secretary); Senator S. V.
ASHBY; Senator E. Lisle WARD; Senator .F C. H.
CAREW; Senator S. A. BLANCHETTE; Senator D. A.
WILES, C.M.G., O.B.E.; Senator F. L. WALCOTT,
O.B.E.; Senator Erma V. ROCK; Senator H. F.
ALKINS; Senator Dr. R. B. CADDLE, B.Sc.,
M.B.B.S. and Senator P. G. MORGAN;

ABSENT

Senator C. L. BRATHWAITE; Senator W. W.
BLACKMAN, M.B.E.; Senator R. G. MAPP; Senator
N. A. BARROW, B. A.;

Prayers were said.

EXCUSES FOR ABSENCE

The Clerk informed the Senate that he had been
asked to offer excuses for the absence of Senator
W. W. BlackmanandSenatorN. A. Barrow from the
day's meeting.

PAPERS

Senator the Honourable H. A. Vaughan, Minister
of State and Leader of the Senate, laid the follow-
ing papers:-

(1) The Customs Duties (Materials foruse in
the manufacture of Glassless Plastic
Safety Mirrors) Order, 1967.


(2) The Drawback of Duties (Locally Manu-
factured Crown Corks) Regulations,1967.

(3) The Civil Establishment ( General )
(Amendment) (No. 11) Order, 1967.

SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES (CURRENT)
No. 24

The President called the first Order A Reso-
lution to place the sum of $99,767 at the disposal of
the Government to supplement the Estimates, 1967-
68 Part 1 Current as shown in the Supplementary
Estimates, 1967-68 No. 24 which form the Schedule
to the Resolution.



SENATOR THE HONOURABLE H.A.VAUGHAN:
Mr. President, -- To deal first with the first head
of this Resolution, Head 6, Legal, Item 17A, some
time ago this Chamber approved a Civil Establish-
ment Order increasing the number of draftsmen in
the Attorney General's Chamber. Some time had to
elapse before the new offices could be filled.

In the interim the volume .of specialised le-
gislation due particularly to the increase in the work
of the Government, and also because of changes in
legislation due to the independence of the island,
necessitated the speedy appointment of someone to
carry out these specialised duties and two gentlemen
of distinguished academic attainments who were at
the time doing specialisedwork in revisingthe laws -
Professor R. Marshall and Mr. Keith Patchett -
consented to forego some of their leave to come down
here on economy class fares and to forego house
allowances to do this work so as to help us along for
two or three months.

They did not name a fee and it was left to the
Government to suggest an honorarium. As will be
seen from the Resolution, the honorarium decided on
is $1,000 each. I think that every person who has any
knowledge of the intricacies of the work of the At-
torney General's Office, knows the difficulty of
specialised drafting and realises the prominence of
these two legal gentlemen will realise that $1,000 each
for the sort of work that they did can only be described
as a token payment.


DEBATES


_ i~ __










There is one thing that I would like to add. The
$7,480.20 in this itemwil be in large part covered by
the lapse of salaries which would have been paid to
these posts which were not filled while these two
gentlemen were doing the work.

The next two items are revotes. In one case it
covers the revote of $2,878 to purchase a printing
machine and accessories for the Lands and Surveys
Department). The machine did not come in time and
the vote lapsed. Similarly with the amount of
$5,000 voted to purchase a land rover for the same
department. In tliat case the vehicle came after the
close of the financial year and cost $11 more.


Head 35, Public Works, Item 50 this is a new
item for sea defences. Senators will remember that
earlier this year some damage was done to certain
parts of the island, on the South Coast, at the
Esplanade and at the Deep Water Harbour. Oc-
casion has also been taken to put in a sum of $10,000
for unforeseen works, like damage which may be done
because of high swells.

As regards Head 41, Ministry of Education,
(Schools) Item 10,, electricity, water and gas, this is
due to the decision to extend the electricity supply
to 21 schools to facilitate the operation of the Mobile
Dental Clinic. Special fittings to meet the specifi-
cations of the van were not available in the island and
attempts were made to get them from Trinidad and
subsequently from elsewhere.

By that time, Sir, the financial year had ended,
and the amount now sought is the remainder of what
was voted last year and which was not spent.

The last item, postage stamps, $44,000 is the
dearest of the lot. Ithink that it is justified by the na-
ture and quality of the work.

I move, Sir, that the Resolution be concurred in.

SENATOR THE HONOURABLE F. G. SMITH:
Mr. President, I beg to second the motion. In doing
so, I would like to pay tribute to the two gentlemen
referred to by the Hon. Minister of State who were
here for two months, and who assistedgreatlyin ad-
vancing the legal work of my department.

I want to point out that we were in duty bound mo -
rally to pay the return fares for the wives of these two
gentlemen who were giving up part of their leave and
who were not asking for house allowance, subsistence
and the other benefits which such officers would expect
to get.

Professor Marshall who was a Barbados Scholar,
and who retains a keen interest in local matters, also
has a keen interest in matters of the Caribbean and
was very willing to assist.

I need not dilate on this Resolution because as
members will appreciate, as a result of Independence
the Constitution gave us a dead line of November 30,


1967, by which certain laws had to be amended to bring
them into conformity with the Constitution.

I think that we are coming to ahead with the An-
glican Church Disestablishment Bill and in addition to
that, the law revision problem is also coming to a
head and we will get out the first volume of the revised
laws by January, 1968. The presence of these two
gentlemen in the island was of inestimable value es-
pecially as certain complications began with respect
to the Anglican Church and other important matters.

I do not want Senators to feel that we are giving
their wives a joy ride. This is compensation for the
gentlemen not demanding house and subsistence al-
lowance etc.

I wanted to tell the Senate that anyone who has
gone through the Statute Book will see that we have
gone through 60 Acts already and there is a lot of
legislation still necessary in order to bring our Sta-
tute Book up to date. There are still a lot of things
which do not meet enlightened thinking fromthe cri-
minal point of view, the road traffic point of view,the
many other important points of view, and it is neces-
ary to have our Statute Book brought up to date.

This is the task with which these gentlemen have
assisted greatly and I am asking members to feel that
this expense is merely a token and not a full payment
for the contribution that they have made.

SENATOR H. F. ALKINS: Mr. President, -While
we are grateful to the Ministers for the information
that they have given us, may I just ask for a little fur-
ther information? Arising out of what the Honourable
Attorney General said we are pleased to learn that
the revised laws will be out by January 1968.

SENATOR THE HONOURABLE F. G. SMITH: I
said the first volume.

SENATOR H. F. ALKINS: Iwouldlike to enquire
what is the position as regards Subsidiary Legislation.
I have had the personal experience this week that even
Solicitors and other legal people find it difficult to get
hold of certain regulations and I am wondering if some
sort of rough index could be provided. It would be of
great help to people who are seeking copies of these
Regulations.

In connection with the explanation given about the
cost of repairs to the damage done by the sea, I per-
sonally would be interested, and I think that others
would be, what exactly it is planned to do at Gravesend.
Will there be groynes, a seawall or what? Any inform-
ation that could be given on that would be welcome.


SENATOR P. G. MORGAN: Mr. President, -We
all realise that from time to time there are acts of
God, unforeseen circumstances which make it neces-
ary for us to provide funds for repairs to the coast
etc. At the same time it does seem to me that this
matter of our coast line and beaches is still being
taken somewhat lightly.


_ ___











It is sometime since the Minister responsible
for beach control said in the Other Place that a Beach
Control Authority would soon be appointed. The mat-
ter of our beaches is far too important to be neglect-
ed any longer. It seems to be one of these things that
is everybody's job and therefore nobody's job.

Beaches are one of the greatest assets that Bar-
bados has. They must be taken care of for the benefit
of our own people and for the further development
of the Tourist Industry. I hope that it will not be long
before we see action on beach control and the many
aspects which that involves.

As regards Item 5, of Head 41, I would like to
suggest that the Government might consider the
possibility of establishing a clinic for taking care of
children's eyes and not only taking care of their teeth.
To me that seems to be very important.

SENATOR THE HONOURABLE H.A.VAUGHAN:
Mr. President, There are three things to which I
would like to refer. With respect to Gravesend the
fact is that 300 feet of concrete retaining wall is in-
cluded at a cost of $2,381. I may add that in respect
of the Esplanade 450 feet of seawall is to be com-
pleted.

I remember the day when the damage to the Deep
Water Harbour occurred. I as Chairman of the
Committee was asked to go down and see. At the
harbour, 75 feet of the rubble bank near the entrance to
the taxi stand will have to be reinstated. I hope
that that satisfies. If there is any other information
desired and it is available I will be only too glad to
pass it on.

With respect to the query by Senator Morgan I
would like to say that the Government has not ab-
andoned the idea of setting up a Beach Control Author-
ity. A report has been made andnowwe have a whole
set of conclusions and recommendations which we can
study and on which we can take action. I can assure
the Senate that the Governmentwillexpedite the mat-
ter.

The matter, Sir, of Subsidiary Legislation is ex-
ceedingly difficult and complex. It is easier to get
ahead with the Acts and Statutes. Subsidiary Legis-
lation is a tremendous exercise. I will allow my
colleague, the honourable Attorney General to give
a full explanation.

SENATOR THE HONOURABLE F. G. SMITH:
Mr. President, I share the anxiety of Senators on
this question of Subsidiary Legislation. I have had a
discussion with the Law Revision Commissioner and
we have asked all departments to let us know the state
of their Legislation. There are cases when a Statute
contains provision for Regulations to be made andno
Regulations have been made. There are cases when
Orders are frequently amended. It is a tremendous
job, involving quite alot of research into various Acts.

The departments are working on the Subsidiary
'Legislationwhich affects their Ministries and as soon


as this is done the Law Revision Officers will be best
able to tackle this problem.

As I have said, I share the anxiety of Members. I
realise that it is not easy for solicitors and lawyers
to find the necessary Orders that have been made from
time to time.

As regards Beach Control, the report of Dr.
Carlozzi only reached the Government two weeks
ago. It is not that the Government is not concerned
about beach control, but the Minister concerned
wrote countless letters to Dr. Carlozzi and we
only got his report two months ago. We were not
sitting down on Dr.Carlozzi'sreport. We were prod-
ding him for it for longtime. The Government does
not sit back. It follows up the report of every expert,
and where the question of the Tourist Trade is con-
cerned the Government realises the vital part that it
plays in our economy.

The question that the Resolution be concurred in
was put and agreed to.

SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES (CURRENT) No.35

The President called the second Order A Re-
solution to place the sum of $1,335 at the disposal of
the Government to supplement the Estimates, 1967-68
Part I Current as shown in the Supplementary Es-
timates, 1967-68 No. 25 which form the Schedule to
the Resolution.

SENATOR THE HONOURABLE'H. A. VAUGHAN:
Mr. President, The Civil Establishment (General)
(Amendment) No. 10 Order, 1967, has been approved by
Parliament and the staff of the Auditor General's
Department was increased. That increase caused cer-
tain consequential increases to certainheads,among
them furniture and equipment, travelling, stationery
etc. Also connected with the increase is the need for
transmission by the Auditor General of documents
to other Auditors General in the Commonwealth.
I move, Sir, that the Resolution be concurred in.
Senator the Honourable F.G. Smith secondedthe
motion.
The question was put to the Senate and agreed to.

SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATE (CURRENT) No. 26

The President called the third Order A Re-
solution to place the sum of $4,380 at the disposal of
the Government to supplement the Estimates, 1967-68
Part 1 Current as shown in the Supplementary Es-
timates, 1967-68 No. 26 which form the Schedule to
the Resolution.

SENATOR THE HONOURABLE H. A. VAUGHAN:
Mr. President, The fourth Caribbean RegionalAir
Navigation meeting held in Mexico last year felt
that there should be established a telecommunications
channel in the Eastern Caribbean including Puerto
Rico and Trinidadwhichwouldbe usedexclusivelyfor
meteorological information as needed for!Aviational
Operations.










The need for this channel can be justifiedby the
heavy overloading of the existing channelwhich car-
ries both ordinary and meteorological traffic, and it
will enable the meteorological offices of the Eastern
Caribbean to function more efficiently.

I move, Sir,I that the Resolution be concurred in.

Senator the Honourable F. G. Smith seconded .the
motion.

The question was put to the Senate and agreed
to.

SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES (CURRENT) No.27

The President called the fourth Order A Re-
solution to place the sum of $57,198 at the disposal
of the Government to supplement the Estimates,
1967-68 Part 1 Current as shown in the Supple-
mentary Estimates, 1967-68 No. 27 which .form the
Schedule to the Resolution.

SENATOR THE HONOURABLE H. A. VAUGHAN:
Mr. President, This Resolution affects officers of
the Government who are sent on training courses in
various fields andwho, in the course of their training,
run the risk of being in some way injured or losing
their property or being otherwise hampered.

The authorities to whom some of these people
have been sent for training have always insisted on
Government indemnifying them against any damage
to the persons being trained. The purpose of this
Resolution is, in so far as this item is concerned,
to provide some adequate cover in such cases.

Opportunity has been taken at the same time to
provide within the ambit of this part of the Resolution
for contingencies of a different nature, for example
the case of an officer who has been seconded else-
where for duty. Sometime ago an officer from one of
the neighboring islands suffered some losswhenthe
hotel at which he was staying was burnt. When things
like that happen this vote can be used to recoup the
officer.

I may say that I hope that our luck will continue
in so far as this type of contingency is concerned. In
so far as paying for damage suffered by officers in
training we have never had to pay, and if we do not
have to pay the money voted will naturally remain
there.

In respect of the next item under Highways and
Transport, there are certain materials ordered
during the course of the last financial year which
were expected to arrive before the end of the financial
year but which did not. The amounts originallyvoted
were not revoted and we now have to revote the ex-
penditure set out in the Resolution.

I move, Sir, that the Resolution be concurred in.

Senator the Honourable F. G. Smith secondedthe
motion.


SENATOR H. F. ALKINS: Mr. President, The
note Item 2 does not say that it is a revote. I take it
that I am correct in saying that it is.

SENATOR THE HONOURABLE H. A. VAUGHAN:
Yes.

SENATOR F. L. WALCOTT: Mr. President, I
have recently paid a visit to the Highways and
Transport Department and I would like to say that it
seems to be one of those buildings which were not
constructed to be government offices. This is a work
department and you get a large number of people con-
gregated in this place. Yougo to see the Minister and
you have no means of direction. You have to ask un-
necessary questions as to where you can find the
Minister's office.

Mr. President, there is a lack of dignity. You
have to go behind some sort of old blind that is a lunch-
room on your way to the Minister's office. If you are
going to have Government offices let there be some dig-
nity to approach. When you are going to a Minister's
office do not let it look as if you are going into a food
kitchen.
I think that there is land available. This is not a
private matter. This is not the Minister's private
affair. It is not his home. It is a Government office
and I think that you should do something to improve it.
Get a decent lunchroom. You should be able to see the
Minister without embarrassing those who want to take
lunch.

The question that the Resolution be concurredin
was put to the Senate and agreed to.

BILL TO AMEND THE POLICE ACT

The President called the fifth Order A Bill to
amend the Police Act, 1961 50.

SENATOR THE HONOURABLE H. A. VAUGHAN:
Mr. President, Under Section 45 of the Police Act
it is provided that whenever fees are receivedby the
Commissioner of Police for services performed by
the Band, pursuant to the Regulations made under
the Act the Accountant General must pay two thirds
of such fees to the Commissioner of Police who will
cause twenty percent of that two thirds to go to the
Director of Music and the remainder to be divided
among such other members as may be prescribed
by the Regulations.

It has been in effect for some time that this
manner of rewarding the Director of Music and
members of the Band or rather, rewarding other
members of the Band vis a vis the Director of
Music is not equitable. There is no one more
convinced about that than the Director of Music
himself. As a matter of fact this Bill is a result
of a suggestion by him that the method of the
distribution of this two thirds should be altered
and the proportion changed.

There is nothing in the Bill which states exactly
how the money should be apportioned. As will be seen











from reference to Clause 2ofthe Billthe sum is to be
divided between the Director of Music and other
members of the Band in such manner as may be pre-
scribed by Regulations.After this Bill has been passed
Regulations will be made under the Act prescribing
how the money will be divided.

I will say that in addition to the Director of Music
having taken the initiative to suggest this change,
the proposal of the Director received the agreement of
the Commissioner of Police and the Chief
Establishments Officer and of course have been ap-
proved by the Cabinet.

I move, Sir, that the Bill be read a secondtime.

Senator the Honourable F. G. Smith secondedthe
motion.

SENATOR F. L. WALCOTT: Mr. President, I
am not objecting to what the Minister said, I would like
to know how much money is really involved. I am not
dealing with a sum of $40.00. I would like to know if
you are getting money to distribute. I am not trying to
create the impression that the Band is getting a
reward that is negligible. How much has been divided
in the last few years?

SENATOR THE HONOURABLE H. A. VAUGHAN:
I am sorry that I am unable to answer the last question
put by Senator Walcott. Generally speaking, if there
was no money distributed, certainly one would not have
gone to the trouble of having a lot of correspondence
between the Director of Music and the Commissioner
of Police and further with the Chief Establishments
Officer and the Minister of Home Affairs, and having
a paper prepared, and having it discussed by the
Cabinet and having the Attorney General prepare
a Bill to come down to Parliament. It must be
assumed that the Government has some sense of
responsibility.

Another thing is that the Director of Music said
himself that the distribution is not fair. He did not
agree with it. What are we to do? Turn it down? I
am sorry that I am not able to tell him how much is
received for theseprivate engagements and functions
in the last six or twelve months. Provision is made
for the members of the Band to receive these amounts
and it is only fair that they should be distributed
equitably.

SENATOR F. L. WALCOTT: I was hoping that
the Minister would have answered me..He answered
me by saying that he could not state the amounts
received. I wanted to know the value of the amount
involved.

SENATOR C. ASQUITH PHILLIPS: Mr.
President, I think that Senator Walcott has raised
an interesting point and although I appreciate the reply
by the Minister of State, it begs the question because
the whole point of Senator Walcott's question is
whether the action taken by the Government is justi-
fied by the amount of money involved.


I am not myself happy about the principle
involved. There was a time when public servants like
typists in the courts used to type work and transcribe
notes and charge fees according to the amounts laid
down and these fees used to go to their pockets.

I think it is far better that the members of the
Police Band who are public servants and work under
the Commissioner of Police should be paid proper
salaries out of the Public Treasury. I do not like the
idea of the Police Band which is not a commercial
concern like the Blue Rythum Combo having to depend
on payment for services performed for any member
of the public.

I do not have with me a copy of the Police Act
1961, and I have not checked to see whether it was in
the previous Police Act; but I would venture the
opinion at this stage that this must have been some-
thing in existence priorto the Police Act of 1961. This
is a hangover from another era when the community
were not sure whether they shouldhave a Police Band
and these feeswere regarded as a kind of fringe' bene-
fit and if you had people who were willing to play music
they would be prepared to derive some of their income
from charges made for certain services.

In this day and age it is accepted that the Police
Band is an integral part of community life. None of us
can deny the invaluable service it has performed at
home and abroad and how much it has contributed to
the tourist industry. Although I would support the Bill,
I would have preferred to see the whole principle of
this Bill jettisoned and that we were not being asked
to distribute money between the Director of Music
and members of the Band.

I wonder, Sir, if the revelant authority couldn't
investigate the possibility of a national orchestra
being formed with the Police Band as a nucleus. I
understand that some years ago there was in existence
a Barbados Musical Society that was composed of
members of the Police Band and others musically
inclined who will get together and rehearse and put
on public performances.

There is no reason why we could not have a
similar orchestra of forty to fifty members to give
performances on special occasions when a brass band
is sometimes completely inadequate and unsatis-
factory. For instance, there are times when we have
state balls and an orchestra is more appropriate than
a brass band. You will remember, Sir, that we in this
Chamber on the occasion of the retirement of your
predecessor in office held a function, and the Police
Band was kind enough to attend on the occasion of the
dinner in honour of Sir Grey Massiah. On that occasion
they regaled us up to the time thatwe got down to the
business of the evening. I well remember that the late
President appreciated the presence of the Police
Band but at the same time madeit clear that he did not
like to eat with so much noise arroundhim. If we had
a string band perhaps that would have more pleased
the late President.







260


SENATOR THE HONOURABLE H. A. VAUGHAN:
Before anyone else emphasises anything Iwould like to
clarify something said, and I hope, allay the fears of
Senator Walcott and Incidentally reply to Senator
Phillips.

How this provision came to be inserted in the law
I do not know. I do know that there was a time when
the Police Band undertook to perform with permission
at functions other than official occasions, functions
held by private individuals. Then they were notusing
brass instruments at all. There was a time when they
had a full string orchestra. I know myself that it used
to be rented by people for dances. I remember on one
occasion actually making arrangements for them.
They played on such occasions in the Government's
time unless theywere off duty. It appears that the then
Commissioner questioned whether it was the correct
thing for them as policemenwho were no longer doing
private duties, and whose remuneration bore some
relationship to that of others in the public service,
should continue in this way. I think that that is how
this provision came into law.

Whether or not it is betterforthe Band nowadays
in performing for private individuals to use only
brass instruments, and whether they should not be
paid by an addition to their salaries is an entirely
different thing. I am not prepared to say anything
about that.

As far as a string orchestras concerned, in the
highest quarters of Government the idea is prevalent
that the Director of Music should be Director not only
of the Police Band but that you should have a music
school with the Director of Music in charge. Whether
there should be a string orchestra is a matter for
further consideration.

I know that there was a time when we did have
such an orchestra. I remember the time when a
gentleman who worked at Harrison had a fine string
orchestra and I also remember Mr. Charlie Elder.
Perhaps what is needed is that we should have some
controlling authority for the development of music
throughout the island, someone of the calibre of the
Director of Music.

In so far as Senator Walcott's rejoinderto me is
concerned I would say what I meant was that I have
not got any figures which show the total of fees which
have been paid by private individuals of the Police
Band for performing at these functions during any
period.

SENATOR THE HONOURABLE P.M.GREAVES:
Mr. President, I did not intend to speak on this
matter. Everyone knows about the Police Band and the
favourable reception that they have had not only at
home but abroad. Because of their popularity the Band
is called upon from time to time to perform at
functions other than those normally performed at the
request of the Government.

In 1961 Parliament provided by the Police Act of
that year that fees collected should be put into the


Public Treasury and that a sum amounting to two
thirds of such fees should be handed over by the
Accountant General to the Commissioner of Police
who will cause twenty percent of those fees to be
paid to the Director of Music and the remainder to
be divided between other members of the Band in
such manner as may be prescribed by Regulations.

Now, Sir, this Bill seeks to amend the Police
Act of 1961. New Regulations have been made and
will be laid shortly as regards fees. If the Band is
at a strength of thirty five or more and plays for a
party not exceeding two hours the fee is $120.00 If
there are less than thirty five performing for a party
not exceeding two hours the fee will be $75.00. For
the dance band not exceeding twelve members and
performing for not more than five hours the fee will
be $100.00.


I would like to add that it is not a question of
under-paying members of the Band. They are paid
salaries comparable with those paid to members of
the Police Force. This is just a matter of when they
are performing at private functions. Even when mem-
bers of the Police Force are required to carry out
duties other than what they are required by law to do
at certain private functions fees are payable to them.
With the Band it is the same thing.

The question that the Bill be read a second time
was put and agreed to.

On the motion of Senator the Honourable H. A.
Vaughan seconded by Senator the Honourable P.M.
Greaves the Senate went into committee on the Bill,
Senator C. Asquith Phillips in the Chair.

Clause 1 was called and passed without debate.

Clause 2 was called.

SENATOR F. L. WALCOTT: Mr. President, -
Information has been given and the Minister of Home
Affairs has said some things which the public should
know. When you say private functions what do you
really mean? The Minister talked about the popular-
ity of the Band. It is popular because people like to
use the Band. What you do not want to do is to create
the impression that you are makingthe Bandplay for
commercial functions. I do not meanplaying at
Christmas time when you are running things for chil-
dren etc. You do not charge when people are not
making money. It is a community service; but where
people are using the Band making money thenyou can
say what rates you will charge.


What sort of things are you going to put into the
Regulations? That is the sort of information Iwant to
elicit. I am not aware of what kind of people play for
the Band or of the kind of functions for which they
play.


Mr. CHARIMAN: The Senator can askaquestion
referring to that specifically.











SENATOR F. L. WALCOTT: Clause deals with-
the whole matter Clause 2 contains the principle of
the Bill.

SENATOR THE HONOURABLE H. A. VAUGHAN:
Mr. Chairman I think that you were correct in re-
minding Senator Walcott that he was straying a little.
The Bill had nothing to do with the sum which will be
charged for performances of the Band but merely with
the method of apportioning the money.

SENATOR THE HONOURABLE P. M. GREAVES:
This is nothing new. What happens is that the Regu-
lations are merely setting out what the Act of 1961
allows them to do.

SENATOR THE HONOURABLE F. G. SMITH:
Mr. Chairman I think that Senator Walcott was in the
Legislature, in the Other Place, when this Act of
1961 was passed. What we are trying to do now is
trying to provide for a more equitable distribution of
fees that come in. We are not laying down any new
principle,
SENATOR F. L. WALCOTT: I do not regardthis
as important. I do not like playing with words. There
is no point at all in saying that I was in the Legisla-
ture in 1961. It would mean that no one has any right
to look back and say that anything that was passed in
1961 has no relation to conditions today. Time must
stand still.

The Minister of State and the Minister of Home
Affairs went further and spoke about the Regulations
and the fees. You are playing with words when you
say that it is not a Bill for the charging of fees, for
the distribution of money. It seems that the more
simple the question you ask the more difficult it is to
get a simple answer.

SENATOR THE HONOURABLE H. A. VAUGHAN:
I would just like to congratulate Senator Walcott on
striking a more relevant note.

Clause 2 of the Bill was passed.


His Honour the President resumed the Chair
and the passing of the Billin Committee was reported
accordingly.


On the motion of Senator the Honourable H. A.
Vaughan secondedby Senator the: Honourable P. M.
Greaves the Bill was read a third time and passed.

CONGRATULATIONS TO SENATOR THE
HONOURABLE H. A. VAUGHAN

SENATOR THE HONOURABLE F. G. SMITH: Mr.
President, On me falls the very pleasurable task of
offering on behalf of this hon. Chamber our very
heartiest congratulations to the hon. Minister of State,
and Leader of the Senate on his new appointment as
Ambassador Plenipotentiary and Extraordinary to the
United States and Permanent Representative at the
United Nations.


I think that I am correct in saying that it is out of the
ripeness of his age and experience that he has been
preferred to a post which affects our young nation as
one of great dignity.

The Minister of State has not only passed through
the turbulent waters of elected politics in the Other
Place, not only has he been nominated to this hon.
Chamber, but he also played a very important role in
establishing and maintaining the rule of law and in the
affairs in which our transition from colonialism to
Independence was so smoothly carried out. By his
selection to this post Her Majesty the Queen has
brought honour to one who in many a sphere of activ-
ity has contributed to the advancement of his native
land.

We have been all told by those who give honour
where honour is due that as a master of the English
there are none, or at least few, who can boast of that
mastery as can the Minister of State. Not only is his
mastery of that language outstanding, but in the field
of literature and history he has contributed to estab-
lishing for us a rightful place among the names of
those who have gone before, and who have contributed
both politically and otherwise to give us our national
image.
It would be presumptious of me, Mr. President,
to give the hon. Minister any advice whatsoever.
Before I do anything of that nature I assure him that
we shall miss him very much in this hon. Chamber.
While there are some who might, at times,have been
irritated by the desire of the Minister to give meticu-
lous details when they did not appear to be needed,
that springs from a mind that is disciplined, and which
spares no attempt to give every point of view.

The Minister is carrying to this new post wide
experience and a wealth of knowledge gained from
personal experience; and he is a living example of
what those who mean to achieve can achieve by their
education, their interest and devotion, by their love
for their fellow-men and by true Christian behaviour.

I would like to say that Ihave every confidence in
spite of those who out of some petty mind or from
some unworthy motive may criticise the appointment,
Barbados is fortunate in having as her representative
in that great country of America a man of the Sena-
tor's ability and integrity.

I am not saying this because I am a member of
this Government which has contributed to the appoint -
ment, but as a true Barbadian who holds the honour of
his country above all else, who prizes the traditions
of his nation above everything else, and who is con-
scious of what the Senator has done in the making of
this nation.

I have been fortunate, Mr. President, to, have
been associated with the Senator as a member of the
Legal Profession, and I have appeared before him in
several Courts. I am especially fortunate, not only to
have been his successor in the office of Attorney
General -- which placed me in a difficult position in
trying to emulate him but in having his friendship,
and I know that I shall miss him.







262


Sir, we shall follow his career which is only the
beginning of a new sphere of activity..We shall follow
his career, and we know that he will holdhighour
standard, the standard of this nation, andthat he will
be a representative of whom this country can be just-
ly proud. (cheers),

HIS ? ONOUR THE PRESIDENT: Honourable Sen-
ators I would like to associate myself as President
of this Senate with the congratulatory remarks of the
Hon. Attorney General on the appointment of the Hon.
Minister of State as Ambassador to the United States
of America.

I have had the privilege of serving with the hon-
ourable member in both Houses of this Legislature
for a considerable number of years and I know the
sterling worth of the Hon. Minister. He is an honest
and upright gentleman, in my opinion, and we can also
describe him as a worthy son of Barbados.

The Hon. Minister of State is not only learned in
the law, but, as Ihave said, he has had a distinguished
political career in both Houses of the Legislature. I
think that men who are at his age of life can best show
to the youth of this young nation that they can and .
should try to emulate the high example thathas been
set them by the Hon. Minister of State.


I know that in his new post the Minister will be
called upon to fill in a position which calls for dig-
nity and experience, and above all, for courage; and
I am sure that he possesses those three attributes
that I have mentioned.


I should like to say in conclusion that we wish the
Minister all of the best inhisnewpost, and we shall
certainly follow his career with great interest.
(cheers).


SENATOR THE HONOURABLE H. A. VAUGHAN:
Mr. President, I am indeed very grateful to you and
to my colleague, the hon. Attorney General for the
very kind things that you have said about me and fo
your expressions of good wishes for success in my
future career.


I hope, Sir, that you will not think me in any way
unappreciative of anything that you have said if I do
not attempt to reply either to youandto the Attorney
General, and, through you, to the members of this
Senate as fully as you have spoken on this appoint-
ment.
There is one thing that I think I can say with
truth, and that is that I have been genuinely touched
by, may I say, the almost unanimity with which the
appointment has been received by the Nation at large,
so much so, that I do not think that it would be incor-
rect for me to say that when the announcement was
made "even the ranks of Tuscany could scarce for-
bear to cheer."
Sir, I am under no illusions as to the nature of
the duties which I will be called upon to perform.
-They will be important and intricate. They will call
for tact and discretion, for knowledge and experience
and some skill in the handling of men. Anything which
I can do to enhance the prestige of my country I will
endeavour to do to the best of my ability.

The Hon. Attorney General has referred to my
career extending back severalyears, andtakingin
both Houses of Parliament, and also including a
fairly long spell in the Courts in various positions.
Sir, I think that I can truthfully say that I have tried
to the best of my ability to perform my public duties
even if on some occasions it has given rise to mis-
conceptions.

If, then, it has pleased Almighty God that it has
been possible for me to attain to this point, I shall
perform my duties with all the ability with which it
has pleased God to endow me, and lam buoyed up by
the good wishes of the members of this Chamber and
of the community as a whole.

I promise the public of Barbados generally that
I will approach my task with dignity, dedication and
humility.
Mr. President, again I thankyou andthe Attorney
General very much for what you have said.
ADJOURNMENT

On the motion of Senator the Honourable H. A.
Vaughan seconded by Senator the Honourable F. G.
Smith the Senate adjourned at 5.45 p.m. Sine die.










THE


SENATE


DEBATES


(OFFICIAL REPORT)


SECOND SESSION OF 1966 71


THE SENATE
Thursday, 14th December, 1967.
The Senate met in the Senate Chamber, Public.
Buildings, at 4 o'clock p. m. today.

PRESENT

His Honour Senator E. S. ROBINSON, C. B. E.,
(President); His Honour Senator C. Asquith PHILLIPS
B.A., (Deputy President); Senator the Honourable
H. A. VAUGHAN, O.B.E., Q.C., (Ministerof State and
Leader of the Senate); Senator the Honourable F. G.
SMITH, Q.C. (Attorney General); Senator the Hon-
ourable L. E. SANDIFORD, M.A. (Minister of Edu-
cation): Senator H. Odessa GITTENS, M.R.S.H.,
(Parliamentary Secretary); Senator C. L.
BRAITHWAITE; Senator S. V. ASHBY; Senator F. C. H.
CAREW; Senator S. A. BLANCHETTE; Senator
W. W. BLACKMAN, M.B.E.; Senator F. L. WALCOTT
O.B.E.; Senator Erma ROCK and Senator P. G.
MORGAN.

ABSENT

Senator the Honourable P. M. GREAVES, B.A.,
(Minister of Home Affairs); Senator E. Lisle WARD;
Senator D. A. WILES, C.M.G., O.B.E.; Senator H. F.
ALKINS; Senator R. G. MAPP; Senator N. A.
BARROW, B.A.; Senator Dr. R. B. CADDLE, B.Sc.,
M .B.B.S.;

Prayers were said.

EXCUSES FOR ABSENCE

The Clerk informed the Senate that he had been
asked to offerexcuses for the absence of Senator D. A.
Wiles and Senator N. A. Barrow from the day's
meeting.


PAPERS


Senator the Honourable H. A. Vaughan, Minister
of State and Leader of the Senate, laid the following
Paper: -


(1) The Passport and Travel Documents
(Fees) Order, 1967.


SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES (CURRENT)
No. 29


The President called the first Order A Reso-
lution to place the sum of $8,118 at the disposal of
the Government to supplement the Estimates, 1967-
68 Part 1 Current as shown in the Supplementary
Estimates 1967 68, No. 29 which forms the Schedule
to the Resolution.

SENATOR THE HONOURABLE H. A. VAUGHAN:
Mr. President, In respect of the first item of this
Resolution I would like to draw the attention of
senators to two errors that have occurred in the note.
The note says that the amount of $400.00 provided in
this year's vote has proved inadequate. Unforseen
expenditure due to the typing of draft legislation for
the Law Revision Commission as well as the sten-
cilling of Bills for introducing into Parliament have
caused a depletion of the vote. Then it goes on to say
that Bills were previously prepared by the Minis-
tries concerned.

That is not so. Bills were prepared and still
continue to be prepared in the Attorney General's
Chambers. What happened was that the stencils of
Bills previously prepared in the Ministries involved
have for sometime now been prepared in the Attorney
General's Chamber with the result that the Attorney
General's vote has gone up.

When we go further in the note we see that it
says that it was not envisaged that these Chambers
would have been responsible for the draft legislation
prepared by the Law Revision Commnission. It is not
the legislation, but the typing of the draft Bills which
has caused an increase in the vote for stationery. So
the vote has to be increased by the sum mentioned in
the item.

With respect to item 2, the note, Ithink, is quite
adequate. Senators will remember the Statistical
Department did a lot of work during the last finan-
cial year and that was the reason for the increase.

The next item which is item 37, under the Depart-
ment of Civil Aviation, for new electrical installations
is largely a revote. The amount voted last year was
$11,002. We now need $4,302 for the installation and
we are asking for this revote.











The other item covered by Note 4 I think needs
no further explanation although if members require
any further details I shall be only too glad to furnish
them.

With regard to the final item under Public Works,
and which deals with the building which is used by the
St. John Ambulance Brigade, it is agreed to that a
building of a permanent nature is required. The
amount asked for is required to meet the cost of
carrying out urgent repairs to the present building
which is used as headquarters of the Brigade. It is
not too much to ask the Government to assist the
Brigade in this matter.

I move, Sir, that the Resolution be concurred in.

Senator the Honourable L. E. Sandiford seconded
the motion.

The question was put to the Senate and agreed to.

SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATE (CAPITAL)
No. 30

The President called the second Order -A Reso-
lution to place the sum of $25, 000 at the disposal of
the Government to supplement the Estimates, 1967-
68 Part II Capital as shown in the Supplementary
Estimates, 1967 68 No. 30 which forms the Schedule
to the Resolution.

SENATOR THE HONOURABLE H. A. VAUGHAN:
Mr. President, The estimate for the construction
of the Caribbean Meteorological Institute in 1963 was
$144,000. In 1966 the cost of building and the cost of
material and labour increased so that more was need-
ed. In 1967 at a meeting of the Caribbean Meteorolo-
gical Council there were some questions as to how
the difference between these two sums could be made
up.

I think that Guyana arranged to pay an advance
of $10,000 and all the other territories agreed to
share the remainder among themselves. The share
which has fallen to our lot is $23,750. We are advanc-
ing the sum of $25,000 of which we will be recouped
$21,250 which represents the total contribution of the
other territories.

I beg to move that the Resolution be concurred in

Senator the Honourable L. E. Sandiford seconded
the motion.

The question was put to the Senate and agreed to.


SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATE (CURRENT)
No. 32

The President called the third Order A Reso-
lution to place the sum of $170,498 at the disposal
of the Government to supplement the Estimates 1967-
68 Part 1 Current as shown in the Supplementary
Estimates, 1967 68No. 32whichforms the Schedule
to the Resolution.


SENATOR THE HONOURABLE H. A. VAUGHAN:
Mr. President, This is a very simple Resolution.
As will be seen, the Chief item is for a supplement-
ary sum to be expended on the Post Office for over-
time pay, overseas airmails, casual labour etc.

There are just one or two things that I would
like to say. I do not want to tire members especial-
ly at this time of the year by repeating in different
words what is said in the Notes. The fifteen clerical
officers engaged as a result of the implementation of
the National Insurance and Social Security Scheme
will cost $16,500 and the Assistant Supervisor $3,000.
That is how we arrived at the total set out in the
Note.

As regards paragraph (b) of the Note, 9 tempor-
ary officers were engaged,pending a review of the
organisation and staffing of the Post Office. They were
engaged for twelve months at a cost of $1,328 a year
each. I need not dwell on this because I think that this
expenditure stems from a very worthy cause.

With respect to item 5, Furniture and Fittings,
as the note explains the expenditure incurred during
the last financial year was met from this year's vote,
and consequently we have to increase the vote.

I think that Notes 6,7, and 8 are quite explana-
tory; but I repeat that if any additional information
is required I shall only be too glad to give it.

I move, Sir, that the Resolution be concurred in.

Senator the Honourable L. E. Sandiford seconded
the motion.

SENATOR P. G. MORGAN: Mr. President, -
I want to comment on Item 16, Paragraphs (a) and (b).
The National Insurance Scheme is undoubtedly one of
the most important items of social legislation brought
down by this Government.

I would like to draw the Government's attention
to an unfortunate situation which presently exists
at the St. Lawrence Post Office. At this post office
approximately 75 to 100 customers are dealt with and
a sum of about $5,000 is involved. Unfortunately none
of these additional clerical officers are at the St. Law-
rence Post Office.

The St. Lawrence Post Office has been in exis-
tence since 1965, and whenyou consider thatthe area
which it serves is from as far as Hastings to Maxwell
Road, and when you appreciate that this is a resident-
ial area that has increased tremendously, you will
realise that the work at that post office is many times
more than it was in 1965. More space is urgently
needed.

There is also a situation where there are no
parking facilities. It seems to me that there are two
possibilities. There is a parcel of land near the post
office which is easy of acquisition, or the post office
could be moved to another spot. I would say that des-
pite these unfortunate circumstances we have a fine
postal service in our district.







265


SENATOR C. ASQUITH PHILLIPS: I agree with
the Minister of State that the Post Office to a large
extent supports itself and brings in its own revenue.
That is why I am somewhat alarmed and dismayed
to learn that earlier this year an incident occurred in
St. Thomas which would suggest that the post was
being used for the transmission of a newspaper or
newspapers and that the required postal dues were
not paid for such transmission. In other words that
the Post Office Act was being infringed and that the
revenue of this island was being defrauded.

To put it quite plainly, the newspaper in question
was the official organ of the Opposition Barbados
Labour Party the Beacon. Bundles of this news-
paper were being conveyed to the St. Thomas Post
Office. Quite clearly, Mr. President, this couldhave
been a serious affair if an ordinary citizen was in-
volved or was responsible for the transmission of a
letter or newspaper without paying the required post-
al dues; but when it is the Opposition political party,
a party which professes to be the alternative to the
Government, it becomes a matter of immediate and
vital concern to all of us.

I think that the Barbados Labour Party either
through the Editor of the Beacon or its secretariat,
should have taken steps to issue a statement denying
complicity in this matter or providing some sort of
explanation. After all, it was their newspapers which
were found in the van.

I regret that Senator Mapp is not present because
he is the Editor of the newspaper, and if he was here
I would have sought some information from him and
I have no doubt that he would be in a position to re-
ply. Thefactthat he is not present will not, however,
inhibit me from saying what I want to say.

Another feature which I find disquieting is that
apart from some reference in the Other Place there
seems to have been no statement from the Govern-
ment up to now as to what the position is in relation
to this incident. There are certain obvious questions
which arise. What is the position of the driver of the
mail van? Is an investigation being carried out with
respect to this situation, and what is the position of
the Postmaster General? If the situation was with
reference to newspapers of the Government Party
found in a mail van no doubt you would have heard
the suggestion or the comment that the Postmaster
General was a close relative of a politician. I do not
have to make that kind of suggestion. All that I am
asking is what is the position of the Postmaster
General in relation to all this? Ultimately it is his
responsibility as the Chief administrative officer of
that department.

Furthermore, Mr. President, one is led to ask
whether this is an isolated incident or not, whether
this is not part of a general pattern of the distribu-
tion of the Beacon; andarisingoutofthis, I am sure
that senators would like to know what action is being
taken by the Government to prevent a recurrence of
this sort of incident and the resultant loss of revenue
-tw the Treasury.


It is certainly a little bit disquieting to have to
support this Resolution when one is aware, as I am,
that certain organizations which should be more re-
sponsible are apparently defrauding the revenue by
not abiding with the regulations of 1911.1 I would be
happy to have some clarification from the Hon.
Minister of State with respect to this matter.

SENATOR W. W. BLACKMAN: Mr. President, -
Senator Phillips has said that members would be glad
to know what action the Government is taking on this
matter. This is the first time that I have heard about
this matter.

It seems to me that this is just a political matter.
Why criticise the Civil Service when no charge has
been laid against them?


SENATOR C. ASQUITH PHILLIPS: Mr. Presi-
dent, the Senator has made a remark about critics -
ing the Civil Service. I have never suggested any
criticism of the Civil Service. Iwas askingthe Mini-
ster to make it clear what the position is.

SENATOR W. W. BLACKMAN: If Senator Phillips
said that if something has been done the Postmaster
General should be aware of it, is it not laying a charge
against him? I think that it is unfair to raise this
matter in this Chamber when no charge has been made
against anyone.

SENATOR THE HONOURABLE F. G. SMITH: Mr.
President, We appreciate the anxiety of the Senator
who has just sat down. He wants to know what is the
position. The Government does not knowfor howlong
the Beacon has been carried to country districts with-
out being properly posted with or without the conni-
vance of people who drive the mail vans.

It only shows how unscrupulous some people are
to spread their business without paying revenue. If
the Minister of Communications and Works and the
Police have investigated and found that Beacons were
carried to the St. Thomas Post Office byvan it is no
idle allegation.

The Government is aware that for sometime the
Post Office vans were used for conveying Beacons to
St. Andrew and St. Thomas with the result that the
Minister of Communications and Works and the Police
went to St. Thomas and found Beacons unstamped in
the Post Office itself.

The matter is under investigation as to whether
this is not a breach of the contract which the Govern-
ment has with the people that carry the mails by van
and the matter has been referred to the Attorney
General for such action ias may be taken.

SENATOR THE HONOURABLE H. A. VAUGHAN:
I share with Senator Morgan the sense of anxiety over
the inconvenience caused by the restricted area of the
St. Lawrence Post Office. I frequently have to go there
myself, although I confess that I do not go there as
often as I would like.The Postmistress has mentioned







266


the matter to me and I tell her to refer the matter"
to the Minister of Communications and Works. She
seems to. feel that I have some power to make the
Minister go up there and look over the premises. Even
if I. were so powerful, inone way,I am not so power-
ful as to drag so weighty a person as the Minister
of Communications and Works to St. Lawrence.

However, Sir, the matter has not escaped the
Government's attention. The matter has actually been
examined, and on more than one occasion the pre-
mises have been visited and proposals have been
made for remedying the very inconvenient situation.
Both the Police Station and the Post Office are in a
corner which makes it difficult and inconvenient for
people to enter and go out. There is no where to park
a car unless you go into the Police Station yard. I
think that Senator Morgan can be assured that the
matter is receiving the Government's attention.

Now, Sir, with respect to the question asked by
Senator Phillips, I am glad that the Hon. Attorney
General came in. Quite frankly, I know nothing about
this and I have not heard it referred to by my col-
leagues. It must have occurred when I was out of the
island. The obvious answer would depend on whether
the Government has been sufficiently apprised of this
alleged breach of the law and whether any action:
administrative or otherwise was contemplated.

In view of the reply ,given I share the views of
Senator Blackman, although it is not often that I agree
with him, and although I do not like to stand on the
same platform as any member of this Chamber who
does not happen to be in my party.

SENATOR W. W. BLACKMAN: I belong to no
party.

The question that the Resolution be concurred in
was put and agreed to.

SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATE (CURRENT)
No. 33

The President called the fourth Order -AReso-
lution to place the sum of $100,000 at the disposal of
the Government to supplement the Estimates 1967 -68
Part I -I Current as shown in the Supplementary Es -
timates, 1967 68 No. 33 which forms the Schedule
to the Resolution.

SENATOR THE HONOURABLE H. A. VAUGHAN:
Mr. President, Once again I must refer Senators
to the Addendum to the Resolution with the object of
making a correction. The very first line of the Ad-
dendum states that $200,000 has been provided in the
Current Estimates. It is really $220,000. $200,000
was provided in last year's Estimates for this same
purpose.

Members might like to be informed in a little
more detail as to how this expenditure has been in-
curred. The rate of expenditure in the first seven
months of the financial year was due mainly to offic-


ers going on leave, including study leave, and the
resultant number of acting appointments.

It might be of interest to tell members that the
average monthly rate of expenditure under this item
has been something like $27,000 so far, and for the
rest of the financial year it is estimated that it will
be something like $24,000.

I move, Sir, that the Resolution be concurred in.

Senator the Hon. L. E. Sandiford seconded the
motion.
SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATE (CAPITAL)
No. 34

The President called the fifth Order -- AReso-
lution to place the sum of $56,000 at the disposal of
the Government to supplement the Estimates 1967-68
Part II Capital as shown in the Supplementary Es-
timates 1967 68 No. 34 which forms the Schedule
to the Resolution.

SENATOR THE HONOURABLE H. A. VAUGHAN:
Mr. President, There is at least one member of
this Senate who has a more than ordinary interest in
this Resolution. By virtue of his position in the com-
munity and his relationship to the large number of
workers employed by the Transport Boardhe has had
to go to the premises of the Board frequently, and he
has drawn the attention of the Government to the need
for extensive repairs to those premises.

This Resolution, Sir, is the first phase of the
work necessary for the rehabilitation. As the Adden-
dum says, an amount of $56,000 is required to meet
the cost of financing the first phase of improved ac-
commodation for the Transport Board. It is expected
to undertake the second phase during the next finan-
cial year.

There is no need for me to point out that the
Board has a large labour force and unless they work
in conditions of comfort and decency they cannot give
of their best. The whole trouble is that for some time
the Government has been pondering whether these
premises should be used for something else.

I move, Sir, that the Resolution be concurred in.

Senator F. C. H. CAREW seconded the motion.

SENATOR F. L. WALCOTT: Mr. President, I
thinkthat it would be ungracious of me if I did not say
that the promptness with which the Government has
acted in this matter is unusual for the way in which
Government affairs are handled. It only shows that if
Ministers are aware of what is happening they will
att quickly, and not allow the bureaucracy of the
Civil Service to impede them.

We have been told how the Transport Board is
losing money. I would say that productivity is bound
to be low if the conditions under which people work
are not good. You cannot get the highest productiv-











ity from the mechanics because they are not working
under ideal conditions.

I am glad to see that the Government has acted
quickly on this matter. Transport is vital to the econ-
omy, and for many years to come the Government
will have to continue to subsidise transport in a com-
munity like this, because it is part and parcel of the
economic and industrial life of this country. I feel
that this attempt to deal with the matter quickly is
a step in the right direction.

I hope that the Government will deal with all other
matters in connection with transport. I would say that
there is a general state of indiscipline. Not only
drivers and conductors, but the public themselves
behave in a manner that is not of the best.

I would also like to suggest that it is time that the
Government in puttingpeople on the Transport Board
should look for people with the ability and understand-
ing of the requirements of the Transport Board. You
cannot employ people to run a business like this who
have no knowledge of personnel matters and how to
deal with people, but who do these things on a hit or
miss ad hoc method. You cannot expect the General
Manager to be capable of dealing with personnel
matters relating to hundreds of people. That is ex-
pecting too much. You cannot expect to get the best of
the hundreds of people employed by the Transport
Board if you do not pay attention to this question of
personnel. At least spend some money and send some -


one capable for training. I am sickof people who run
business and know nothing about handling their work-
ers. The Transport Board needs a Personnel Mana-
ger.

SENATOR THE HONOURABLE F. G. SMITH: Mr.
President, I do not agree with the last speaker that
in this case the Government has acted in an extraor-
dinary manner. Very often it is the Government who
is the last to know about a situation which arises, and
often the Government is the last to knowor to be in-
formed when a situation gets out of control. In this
particular case the Board is a statutory corporation.

The question that the Resolution be concurred in
was put and agreed to.

ADJOURNMENT

SENATOR THE HONOURABLE H. A. VAUGHAN:
Mr. President, Before moving the adjournment I
would state that this is the last meeting of the Senate
that I will be attending before taking up my duties as
Ambassador to the United States of America.

I now move, Sir, that the Senate adjourn.

Senator the Hon. F. G. Smith seconded the mo-
tion.
The question was put and agreed to and His
Honour the President adjourned the Senate according-
ly at 5.35 p. m.




University of Florida Home Page
© 2004 - 2010 University of Florida George A. Smathers Libraries.
All rights reserved.

Acceptable Use, Copyright, and Disclaimer Statement
Last updated October 10, 2010 - - mvs