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Group Title: Official gazette, Barbados
Title: The official gazette
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Title: The official gazette
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Subject: Law -- Periodicals -- Barbados   ( lcsh )
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Table of Contents
    Main
        Page 311
        Page 312
        Page 313
        Page 314
    Supplement: House assembly debates for 18th June, 1968
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        Page A 1690
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        Page A 1716
    Supplement: Act 1969-16: Appropriation Act, 1969
        Page B 1
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Full Text












VOL. CIV.


aofrial


PUBLISHED BY

BRIDGETOWN, BARBADOS,


TABLE OF CONTENTS
Gazette Notices


Acting Appointment:
Dr. E. Cochrane, as Senior Medical Officer
of Health..., ......... .. ................
Assignment: G. L. Reid, Statistican, as Assistant
Secretary, Ministry of External Affairs.........
Executorial:
Ulric Belfield Reid..............................
Notice re African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church
Probate Advertisements dated 28th March, 1969.
Resolution No. 34/1969 re Annual Estimates of
Port Department for year 1969-70...........
Termination of Appointment:
John T. Hall, Clerical Officer, Auditor Gen-
eral's Department..........................
Vacant Post in the Public Service:
Analyst, Ministry of Agriculture, Labour &
National Insurance......................

House of Assembly Debates for 18th June, 1968
House of Assembly Debates for 18th June, 1968.


---- -- -- .----. o
Legal Supplement
Act 1969-16: Appropriation Act, 1969.


NOTICE NO. 264

GOVERNMENT NOTICES
Assignment

G. L. Reid, Statistician, has been as-
signed to the post of Assistant Secretary,
Ministry of External Affairs, with effect from
1st April, 1969.

(M.P. 1515/39/3)



~E;ZLZC#3


safffte


AUTHORITY

IRD APRIL, 1969


Termination of Appointment
John T. Hall's appointment as Clerical
Officer, Auditor General's Department, has
been terminated with effect from 1st April,
1969.

(M.P. P. 8903)

Acting Appointment

Dr. E. Cochrane, Medical Officer of
Health, has been appointed to act Senior
Medical Officer of Health, Ministry of Health
and Community Development, with effectfrom
22nd February, 1969 until further notice.
(M.P. 5968/1/1)


Vacant Post in the Public Service

Analyst Ministry of Agriculture, Labour
and National Insurance.

Salary: $7,320 x 300 7,920 x 360 9,000
per annum.

Further particulars may be obtainedfrom
Service Commissions Department,
"Flodden", Culloden Road, St. Michael.

Closing date for applications: 28th June, 1969.


4


NO. 27


ate









OFC L G E E nril 2 ALUG


NOTICE NO. 130 (third publication)

NOTICE

Re the Estate of

ULRIC BELFIELD REID

Deceased

Notice is hereby given that all creditors
and other persons having any claims or de-
mands against the estate of Ulric Belfield
Reid late of Long Gap in the parish of Saint
Michael in this Island of Barbados School
Teac-' ha.ez eajsedl Who died on the 29th day of
December 1967 and of whose estate Letters
of Administration were granted by the
Supreme Court of Judicature of this Island on
the 11th day of July 1968 to Iro Oriente Reid
the widow of the said deceased are hereby re-
quired to send particulars in writing of their
claims or demands to the said Iro Oriente
C/o W. 0. O. Haynes of No 12 High Street

Bridgetown, Solicitor on or before the 15th
day of April 1969 at the undermentioned ad-
dress after which date the said Iro Oriente
Reid will proceed to distribute the assets of
the said Ulric Belfield Reid deceased amongst
the parties entitled thereto having regard to
the claims and demands of which she shall


then have had notice and the said Iro Oriente
Reid will not be liable for the assets of the
said Ulric Belfield Reid deceased or any part
thereof so distributed to any person or per-
sons of whose claim or demands she shall
not then have had notice.

Andall persons indebted to the estate are
requested to settle their indebtedness with-
out delay.
Dated this 27th day of January 1969.

W. O. O. HAYNES
Solicitors,
No. 12 High Street,
Bridgetown.

NOTICE NO 265

NOTICE
NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that it is the
intention of the members of the African
Methodist Episcopal Zion Church in this Is-
land to cause to be introduced into the parlia-
ment of this Island a Bill to incorporate the
said Church in this Island under the name of
"The African Methodist Episcopal Zion
Church."

Dated the 26th day of March, 1969.

W. O. O. HAYNES
Solicitor.


OFFICIAL GAZETTE


A ril 3 .1%9









April 3, 1969 OFFICIAL GAZETTE 313


Resolution No. 34/1969 M.P. 5001Vol. 29


HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY
Resolved that the Hlouse of Assembly approve under Section 10 of
the Barbados Harbours Act. 1960, the Annual Estimates of the Port De-
partment for the year 1969-70 and that the Senate be invited to concur
herein, and if concurred in,

Resolved that His Excellency the Governor-General be asked to
assent and take the necessary steps to give effect to this Resolution.


24th March, 1969.

THEODORE BRANCKER
Speaker.

Concurred in by the Senate the twenty-seventh day of March, 1969.



E. S. ROBINSON
President.

I assent,
A. WINSTON SCOTT,
Governor-General.
28th March, 1969.








314, OFFICIAL GAZETTE April 3, 1969


PROBATE ADVERTISEMENTS

PUBLIC NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that applications have been made
for the following Grants of Probate and Administration namely :-

PROBATE of the Will dated the 15th day of April, 1966, of CLARENCE BURTON KING,
late of King George Road, Bank Hall in the parish of Saint Michael in this Island who
died on the 7th day of May, 1968, by JOYCE BRENDOLINA HOLDER, the sole
Executrix named in the Will of the said deceased.

PROBATE of the Will dated the 14th day of June, 1956, of TABITHA DORCAS BONNETT,
late of Eagle Hall in the parish of Saint Michael in this Island who died on the 2nd
day of January, 1968, by SAMUEL SHIRLEY GILL, one of the Executors named in
the Will of the said deceased.

PROBATE of the Will dated the 29th day of April, 1967, of WILLIAM MARCUS LOPEY,
late of the Home for Elderly Gentleman, Country Road in the parish of Saint Michael
in this Island who died on the 8th day of August, 1968, by ULRIC GIBBS CRICK, one
of the Executors named in the Will of the said deceased.

PROBATE of the Will dated the 27th day of October, 1967, of AMBROZINE EUGENE
GARROTT, late of King Edward Road, Bank Hall in the parish of Saint Michael in
this Island whodied on the 12th day of July, 1968, by OSCAR CLARKE and ISABELLE
BREWSTER, the Executors named in the Will of the said deceased.

LETTERS OF ADMINISTRATION to the Estate of ELIJAH GIBBS late of Salvation Army
Shelter, Port-of-Spain, Trinidad who died on the 1st day of May, 1968, by WILLIAM
GIBBS, brother of the said deceased.

LETTERS OF ADMINISTRATION to the Estate of FITZROY WILLIAM CALLENDER late
of Kensington New Road in the parish of Saint Michael in this Island who died on or-
about the 16th day of September, 1968, by MATILDA CALLENDER, widow of the
said deceased.


UNLESS CAVEAT is lodged within fourteen days from the date of this Advertisement
; with the Registrar of the Supreme Court through whom the abovenamed applications have
been made Probate and Administration will be granted accordingly.

Dated this 28th day of March, 1969.

C. A. ROCHEFORD
Registrar.


Government Printing Office.













THE


House of Assembly Debates




(OFFICIAL REPORT)


SECOND SESSION OF 1966 71


HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 8Ith June, 1968.
Pursuant to the adjournment, the House of As-
sembly met at 2.45 p.m. o' clock today.

PRESENT

-iis Honour J. E. T. BRANCKER, Q.C., F.Z.S.. (Speaker);
Mr. L. E. SMITH, J.P.; Hon. C. E. TALMA, (Minister
of Health and Community Development); Hon. J. C.
TUDOR, M.A., (Leader of the House); Mr. J. W. CORBIN:
Hon. G. G FERGUSSON. (Minister of Trade. Tourism,
Co-operatives and Fisheries); Mr. R. St.C. WEEKES,J.P.;
Mr. W. R LOWE; Hon. N. W. BOXILL, (Minister of Com
munications and Works): Mr. J. B. YEARWOOD, (Chair-
man of Committees), Sir G. H. ADAMS, C.M G., Q C,,
B.A., D.C.L, (Hon.) (Leader of the Opposition): Mr.
C, A. E. HOPPIN, J.P.; Mr. LS. CRAIG, and Mr. J. B.
SPRINGER.


Prayers were read,

MINUTES

Mr. SPEAKER: I have the honour to inform the
House that there are no minutes available for con-
firmation today.

PAN AMERICAN UNION

I also have the honour to inform the House of my
receipt, on behalf of this House, of a Resolution from
the House of Representatives of the United States of
America extending greetings on Pan American Day to
the other American Republics.

I had the honour to receive a copy of this Reso-
lution, the Hon. Leader of the House being present,
from His Excellency the American Ambassador, and
I have already thanked him, on behalf of the House,
for the presentation.

MESSAGE FROM THE SENATE

I have the honour to inform the House that I have
received from the Other Place a Resolution, signedby
Mr. President, which reads as follows:

"The Senate has the honour to acknowledge the
receipt from the Honourable the House of Assembly


of a Message dated 28th May, 1968 requestingthe ap-
pointment of a Select Committee of the Senate to con-
sult jointly with a Select Committee of the Honourable
the House of Assembly upon The Dairy Industry (Re-
gulation and Control) Bill, 1968 which was passedby
the Senate with amendments on 9th May, 1968.
2. The Senate has today duly appointed Senator
Maurice A. King and Senator E. Lisle Ward to be a
Select Committee of the Senate to consult jointly
with a Select Committee of the Honourable House of
Assembly upon the said Dairy Industry (Regulation
and Control) Bill, 1968.

(Signed) E.S. Robinson
President.

Senate Chamber,
6th June, 1968. "

HIS HONOUR'S RULING

There is a matter on which I had promised the
House to give a Ruling at its last meeting, and the
Ruling is as follows:

On 14th May, 1968, my attention was drawn to a
Question asked by the Honourable Senior Member for
St. James, as follows:-

"To enquire of the appropriate Minister:

"Will the Minister state how many trips were
"made by the Commissioner-General for Barba-
"dos and Guyana, in his capacity as such (a) from
"Barbados to Canada, and (b) within Canada itself,
"in connection with Expo '67?"


2. "Will the Minister state the cost of such trips?"

The Honourable junior member for St. Lucy,
Leader of the House, requested my Ruling in respect
of such query inasmuch as Question No. 110 which
-- he said -- related to the same matter, had been
asked by the Honourable and Learned senior member
for St. Thomas, and had been answered two weeks
previously. In the light of this, he queried whether I
should allow an allegedly indentical question (or a
question relating to an allegedly identical topic) to be
asked in the same Session. I promised to rule.


I ~_









1690


Question No. 110 was as follows:-

"To enquire of the appropriate Minister: -

"1. What is the total cost of travel undertaken at
Government expense by the present Chairmanof
"the Tourist Board, since 1962 to date?

"2. What journeys to Canadawere made by the per-
"son concerned between August 1st, 1966, and
"Election Day, November 3rd., 1966,andhowlong
"a time was sDent on each occasion?"

Perusal of said Questions reveals that Question
No. 110 was in respect of travel undertaken by the
Chairman of the Tourist Board, whereas the Question
asked by the honourable senior member for St. James
referred to travel undertaken by the Commissioner-
General for Barbados and Guyana, in his capacity as
such. Although it may be common knowledge that the
holder of the post of Chairman of the Tourist Board
is -or was -also holderof the post of Commissioner-
General for Barbados and Guyana, yet, inasmuch as
the several queries referred to two (2) separate and
distinct capacities, I do not deem the Question as
asked by the honourable senior member for St.
James, to be out of order; nor do I deem same to
constitute a repetition of or be identical with -
Question No. 110 previously asked by the honour-
able and learned senior member for St. Thomas.

I therefore direct that the said Question remain
on :he Order Paper for reply by the appropriate
Minister.
2.55 p.m.

PAPERS LAID

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, onbehalf of the
Hon. and Learned Prime Minister, Minister of Finan -
ce and Minister of External Affairs, Iam commanded
to lay the following:-

The Public Officers Loan and Travelling Allow-
ances (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations, 1968.

The Consumption Tax Order, 1968.

Notice under Item No. 34 of Part 111 of the First
Schedule to the Customs Act, 1962.

Selected Monthly Indicators of the Barbados Sta-
tistical Service for the period October 1966 -
October 1967.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, I am command-
ed to lay the following:-


The Barbados Harbours (Amendment) Regula-
tions, 1968.


The eleventh Annual Report and Statement of Ac -
counts of the Transport Board for the year 1965-
66.


GOVERNMENT NOTICES

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the
Hon. and Learned Prime Minister, Ministerof Finance
and Minister of External Affairs, I beg to give notice
of the following: -

A Resolution to place the sum of $482,345 at the
disposal of the Government to supplement the
Estimates 1968-69, Part 11 Capital, as shown
in the Supplementary Estimates 1968-69 No. 4
which form the Schedule to the Resolution.

A Resolution to place the sum of $19,068 at the
disposal of the Government to supplement the
Estimates 1968-69, Part 1 Current, as shown
in the Supplementary Estimates 1968-69 No. 5
which form the Schedule to the Resolution.

A Resolution to place the sum of $11,338 at the
disposal of the Government to supplement the
Estimates 1968-69, Part 1 Current, as shown
in the Supplementary Estimates 1968-69 No. 6
which form the Schedule to th e Resolution.

A Resolution to authorise the Minister respon-
sible for Finance to borrow by the issue in the
Island of Treasury Bills sums of money not ex-
ceeding five million dollars and such sums as
may be required to pay off at maturity Bills
already lawfully issued and outstanding.

A Bill to amend the Exchange Control Act, 1967.

On my own behalf, I begto give notice of the fol-
lowing: -

A Bill relating to the appointment and control of
land surveyors and to the survey of lands in Bar-
bados.

A Bill to make provision for the grant to poor
prisoners of legal aid in certain criminal cases.

A Bill to amend the Town and Country Planning
Act, 1965.

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, Ibeg to give no-
tice of my intention to move the House into Committee
of Supply at its next meeting to deal with the money
Resolutions of which notice has just been given.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, Ibegto give
notice of a Bill to amend the Barbados Harbours Act,
1960.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, I beg to
give notice that Oral Reply to Parliamentary Question
No. 167, asked by the hon. senior member for St.
Joseph is ready.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, I beg to give
notice that Oral Reply to Parliamentary Question No.









1691


83 asked by the hon. senior member for St. Thomas
is ready.

Also, Oral Reply to Parliamentary Question No.
154, asked by the hon. junior member for St. John is
ready.

Also, Oral Reply to Parliamentary QuestionNo.
164, asked by the hon. senior member for St. James
is ready.

Also, Oral Reply to Parliamentary Question No.
165, asked by the hon. senior member for St. James,
is ready.

PRIVATE MEMBERS' BUSINESS

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, I beg to
give notice of the following Resolution:-

"BE IT RESOLVED that this House notes with
consternation a report of a Resolution recently moved
and considered in the Other Place purporting to de-
clare that the Honourable and Learned member for
St. Joseph, the Leader of the Opposition, has been
guilty of a breach of the privileges of that Chamber
by giving notice of a resolution in this House on Feb-
ruary 13th last complaining of a breach of privilege
by the Leader of this House which contained the fol-
lowing paragraph and which was the basis of the ob-
jection in the Other Place to the said resolution of
the Leader of the Opposition on the ground that "it
is intended to intimidate this Honourable Senate and is
calculated to obstruct members of this Honourable
Senate in the discharge of their public duties":-
"This House moreover, will view with grave
displeasure any action by the Honourable Senate
which, by entertaining or approving of the afore-
said request purports to make arrangements for
the accommodation of certain of the members of
this Honourable House."
This House recalls the fact that the resolution
of the Leader of the Opposition was duly submitted
to His Honour the Speaker and passed by him as be-
ing in order before it was readout to this House, and
deems the action of the Other Place in considering
the resolution referred to in paragraph 1 above a
grave and unwarranted censure of the Speaker of this
House and a gross breach of its privileges;

This House, moreover considers that the attempt
in the Other Place to call to account, let alone to cri-
ticise and censure the Leader of the Opposition in this
House for words spoken in this Chamber is a gross
and unforgiveable breach of its privileges and should
not be condoned;

This House accordingly places on record its
grave displeasure at the action of the Other Place and
calls on itto apologise to Mr. Speaker and other mem-
bers of this Honourable House for this blatant in-
fringement of one of its fundamental rights and
privileges."
QUESTIONS

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, I beg to give notice of
the following Questions:-


To enquire of the Minister of Housing:

Is the Minister aware that the houses owned by
the Government along Princess Royal Avenue forming
part of the Pine Housing Scheme are ina dilapidated
state of repair?

42. Will the Minister rectify this state of affairs as
soon as possible?

To enquire of the Minister of Communications
and Works:

Is the Minister aware that because cf the increase -
ed business at Holetown, St. James the Holetownpost
office should be extended as soon as possible?

2. Is the Minister aware that the driveway leading
to the said Post Office is too small to accommodate
the members of the general public who attendthere?

3. Will the Minister see to the extension of the
driveway and Post Office referred to as quickly as
possible?

To enquire of the appropriate Minister:

1. Will the responsible Minister make an in-
vestigation into the case of Mr. Humphrey Mason of
8, Martins Road, Pine Housing Area, St. Michael,
who has alleged in complaints to the appropriate
departments of Government that he was imprisoned
during the month of September 1966 for non-payment
of maintenance arrears which had in fact been already
discharged?

2. If Mr. Mason's allegations are substan-
tiated will the Government make an ex-gratia pay-
ment to him as compensation?
3.05 p.m.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, on a point of

order. It strikes me that that question cannot properly
be addressed to a Minister since it deals with a mat-
ter which would not, I think, come under the official
responsibility of the Minister. Would like Your Hon-
our to rule on that because this is how I feel about it.

Mr. SPEAKER: I will give the matter my consid-
eration and ruling.

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the Min-
ister of Communications and Works:

Is the Minister aware of the need of more post-
men to be attached to the Holetown Post Office?

2. Is the Minister aware that a requisition in respect
of increased postal staff has been applied for in re-
spect of the Holetown Post Office?

3. Will the Minister use his good offices to see that
such increased staff be made available as soon as
possible?

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the appro-
priate Minister:









1692


Is the Minister aware that the playing field aback
of the Pine Parkinson School designated for youth of
the inhabitants of the Pine Housing Area is in dire
need of repair?

,2. Will the Minister give instructions that the said
playing field be levelled and brought into use as soon
as possible?

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the Min-
ister of Communications and Works:

Will the Minister see to it that the road aback of
the Queen Elizabeth Hospital leading from River Road
to Constitution Road be repaired so as to form a trunk
highway to divert the traffic from Belmont Road into
the City as a trunk highway?

BILLS READ A FIRST TIME

On separate motions of Hon. J. C. TUDOR, seconded
by Hon. C. E. TALMA, the following Bills were read a
first time:-

A Bill to amend the Exchange Control Act, 1967.

A Bill relating to the appointment and control of
land surveyors and to the survey of lands in Bar-
bados.

A Bill to make provision for the grant to poor
prisoners of legal aid in certain criminal cases.

A Bill to amend the Town and Country Planning
Act, 1965.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker,Ibegto move
that a Bill to amend the Barbados Harbours Act, 1960,
be now read a first time.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: I beg to second that.

The question was put and resolved in the affirma-
tive without division.
EXTENTION OF QUESTION TIME

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move
that Question Time be extended until 4 o' clock. I
think that that is reasonable because.......
( A MEMBER: You will have to suspend the Standing
Order.) Mr. Speaker, there is the appropriate Stand-
ing Order which I cannot recall at the moment. Unless
hon. members opposite wish to suspend all the Stand-
ing Orders, I do not know what their desire is. If you
wish......

Mr. SPEAKER: I wonder if the Hon. Leader of
the House would give way to the Hon. Leader of the
Opposition.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: I would suggest that the
Standing Order affecting the time only be suspended.
This is not intended as a threat, but it does not look
as if we are going on beyond 7 o'clock, so that we can
suspend the Standing Order affecting the time.


Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Itake the hon. member's point.
I beg to move therefore that Standing Order 14 be now
suspended until 4 o'clock.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS and Mr. SMITH rose to
speak.

Mr. SPEAKER: The Hon. Leader of the Opposi-
tion caught my eye first.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: I think that the hon.
senior member for St. Joseph did not notice the time.
We have only five minutes and therefore I agree that
Question Time be extended until 4 o'clock.

Mr. SPEAKER: The question is that StandingOr-
der 14......

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: I beg Your Honour's
pardon, I believe I made a mistake. Standing Order
14 should be suspended without qualification as to the
time.

Mr. SPEAKER: Yes, that is the motion.

The question that Standing Order 14 be now sus-
pended was put and resolved in the affirmative without ( c
vision.

3.15 p.m.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, before we go in-
to Question Time I wish to intimate that I had two
questions outstanding No. 83 in the name of the hon.
senior member for St. Thomas, and No. 79 by the
hon. junior member for St. James. If any hon. mem-
ber on the other side would like to ask those questions,
they may be now taken.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: None of us will ask those
questions and I think that the reasons are well known
to hon. members, The hon. senior member for St.
Thomas is out of the island and he will return. The
hon. junior member for St. James is ill and cannot
walk easily, but he will come back as soon as he can.

Hon. N. W, BOXILL: My reason for that is that
when the replies are given they are always printed,
and because an hon. member is not here it does not
mean that he has forfeited his seat so that when the
Order Paper is sent out he will not see the reply.

Hon. J, C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move
that Question Time be now taken.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.

The question was put and resolved in the affirma-
tive without division.

QUESTION TIME

Mr. SPEAKER: Question No. 167 standing in the
name of the hon. senior member for St. Joseph, Page
10, right hand column.









1693


Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the appro-
priate Minister:-

Will Government consider immediately the
pressing necessity for paying out to old resignedla-
bourers in the Sugar Industry such benefits from the
Provident Fund that are due to them?

,2. If the answer is inthe affirmative, will the Min-
ister state when and how the Fund will be distributed?

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, the reply
is as follows:-

"A plan for the establishment and operation of a
Provident Fund for sugar workers has been ap-
proved and the necessary legislation is being
drafted and submitted to interested parties for
their comments.

2. It is proposed that the Fund be administer -
ed by a Statutory Board comprised of represent -
tives from the Barbados Worker's Union and the
Barbados Sugar Producers' Federation with the
Chief Labour Officer as Chairman."

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, I didnothearthe Hon.
Minister too well when he first started; but will the
Minister state how long the process will be with this
particular Bill to which he referred? I did not hear him
too well; so, if Iaska simple question, he will forgive
me.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: The position is that the
Bill has been already drafted, the Bill for the estab-
lishment of the Fund; but it would not be right for me
to come to the Legislature with a Bill to establish the
Provident Fund except it has been sent to bodies like
the Sugar Producers Federation and the Barbados
Workers' Union for their comments.

I have given them a limited time to let me know
their comments, and I would say that in a few weeks'
time it will be in the Legislature.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, in addition
to the Barbados Workers' Union, is there notanother
Union which has more members than the Barbados
Workers' Union in the Sugar Industry? One branch
alone has more members than the Barbados Workers'
Union.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, lam aware
of the fact that there is another Union. I am not aware
that that Union has more members in the Sugar Indus -
try than the Barbados Workers' Union.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Will the member then
say that recognition depends on numbers? Suppose
there are only a dozen. If this is a registered Union,
it is a registered Union.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: I find it difficult to under -
stand the hon. member. He asked me if I was aware
that it had greater representation of the sugar work-
ers, and I just answered the hon. member's question.


Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS. .s the Minister aware
that he suggested, that he implied that he did not know
the number of sugar workers in the Sugar Workers'
Union? I asked if recognition depends on numbers.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, Sir, the
hon. member asked me whether it represented a big-
ger number of sugar workers than the Barbados
Workers' Union. I answered that after a Union is es-
tablished it has to be recognized. No one is question-
ing the fact that that Union is recognized. As far as I
am aware the Barbados Workers' Union is the accre-
dited representative of the sugar workers generally
in this country, and it is to the recognized Trade Union
and the Union which represents the biggest interest in
any individual sector of the economy of the island that
we sent and asked for comments.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: In view of what the Min-
ister says not that I accept all does the hon. mem-
ber agree that a registered Union whose members
may be affected should be askedto send delegates to
a conference with the other persons whom the Minis -
ter has mentioned?

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, the hon.
member has been President of a Trade Union years
ago. He knows that if there is an industrial dispute or
something of the sort between employers and em-
ployees, these disputes emanate from the fact that. a
Trade Union has been accredited representation.of
these particular workers, and has been acknowledged
by the employers as the accredited representative of
these workers.

As far as I am aware, the Barbados Wbrkers'
Union is the accredited representative of the sugar
workers of this country, and they are so recognized
by the Sugar Producers' Federation and the Sugar
Producers' Association, as the case may be. He should
know that because he was the President at some time
of the Barbados Workers' Union. Therefore he should
know that that Union is the accredited representative
of the sugar workers of the country.

Mr. SMITH: Is the Minister aware that there is ,
another registered Trade Union in this country re-
presenting sugar workers?

Hon. A.DaC.EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, I am aware
that there is another Trade Union purporting to sup-
port sugar workers, and it is called the Sugar Work-
er's Union or something of the sort; but the point
I am stressing is that for the Sugar Producers'
Federation the accredited representative of the sugar
workers is the Barbados Workers' Union. It is for that
reason that I have sent this Bill for their comments.
3.25 p.m.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: He used the word
"some". He ejaculated more than once "some". The
whole object of starting the other Union is that the
sugar workers were fed up with the Barbados Work-
ers' Union. Did the Hon. Minister not hear me say that
some sugar workers have notified the Sugar Producers'
Federation that they are nothing to do with the Barba-









1694


dos Workers' Union? (Hon. N. W. BOXILL:Nottrue.)
I object to that remark. Of course, the Hon. Member
is speaking while in his seat, but that is a crude re-
mark to make. I object to itas being offensive, be-
cause it is a crude remark to make that what I have
just said is not true, when I myself wrote a letter to
the Sugar Producers' Federation in connection with
the matter. (Asides.)

Mr. SPEAKER: I am trying to hear the Hon. Lead-
er of the Opposition complete his supplementary ques -
tion. I am having a little difficulty in so doing, but I
am doing my best. Will the Hon. Leader of the Oppo -
sition continue his supplementary question or
questions?

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: The supplementary ques -
tion was: Did the Hon. Minister not hear me interrup-
ting and saying that the Barbados Workers' Union
represents "some" of the sugar workers and not all?

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, I like to
be polite at most times. I think I have made it clear
that, as far as my Ministry is concerned, we deal
with the Union that has been granted if I were deal -
ing with the shirt industry I would deal with the Union
that the garment industry recognized as the accredited
representative of the workers in the garment indus -
try. As far as I am aware, the Barbados Workers'
Union is still the accredited representative of the
workers in the sugar industry.

I am not aware of any letter being sent to the Su-
gar Producers' Federation stating that the sugar work-
ers do not want to be represented by the Barbados
Workers' Union. As a matter of fact, we have just com-
pleted negotiations for the sugar workers inthis coun -
try just a few months ago, and it was with the Barbados
Workers' Union that the Sugar Producers have been
negotiating. That is the Union, as far as I am aware,
and as far as the Government is aware, that is the ac-
credited representative of the sugar workers in the
country. Until this is changed, until the sugar workers
in this country decide that they want another Union to
represent them and they cease subscribing to the Bar-
bados Workers' Union, and until that reaches me, I
will have to act as Ihave acted recently in respect of
the Provident Fund legislation.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Is the Minister unaware
that there is a difference between "some" and "all"?
In his last answer, the Hon. Minister referredto the
Union representing the sugar workers. Is not theMin-
ister aware that the Bustamante Trade Union and the
other Trade Union both represent sugar workers in
Jamaica? I have another supplementary question, but
I do not want to put both together.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, lam aware
that there is another Workers' Union in the country,
and I am not saying that it does not have sugar work-
ers as its members. The question is: What is the num -
ber of sugar workers represented by this Union vis-a-vis
the number of workers represented by the Barbados
Workers' Union. The position is that if this new Union
-was the accredited representative of the workers, in


January and February when we were fighting to pet
money for the sugar workers in this country the nego-
tiations would have been carried out with that Union
instead of the Barbados Workers' Union.

Up to this moment Ihave never heard of any dis -
pute, or of the other Union doing anything in respect
of representing sugar workers in this country. Until
that Union takes away the lead from the Barbados
Workers' Union, if it can, I will have to recognize
the Union that is recognized by the employers and the
majority of workers in any particular industry. If the
Union mentioned by the Hon. junior member for St.
Joseph was representing, let us say, the majority of
the Port workers and entered negotiations with the
Port as the accredited representative of
the Port workers and I had to deal with legislation
for the Port, then I would treat that Union in the same
way as I have treated the Barbados Workers' Union.
If the Union is the accredited representative of the
workers in a particular field, I will make my repre-
sentations to the Union.

I am fair, and the Hon. member can rest assured
that, if and when the time comes that that Union has
the strength and the following of the workers, it will
gain just as much recognition by my Ministry as the
Barbados Workers' Union. If the Union represents the
majority of a particular interest in the country, the
hon. member can rest assured that it will be given
recognition not only by the employers, but by theMin-
istry of Labour.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Does the Hon. Member
realise that he has said the same thing three times at
least in replying? Does he put the basis on numbers?
The Hon. Minister says that he does not know the num -
bers of the other Union. I ask again what I have asked
before: Is recognition going to be dependent on num-
bers?

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, I deal with
the Union that is recognized by the employers in this
country as the accredited representative of the work-
ers, and with which the employers are willing to sit
down and negotiate for wages and so on for the work-
ers. If the Union is recognized by employers in a cer-
tain industry, Iwill make representation to that Union,
I have made that clear; therefore, until the time comes
when the other Union is able to satisfy the country
that it has the strength to represent a particular bloc
of workers, I will have to make my representations
to the Barbados Workers' Union.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Does the Hon. Member
mean what he says when he refers to a particular bloc
when he has been talking all morning as if all the su-
gar workers must come together

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, I am tired
of getting up like a hopping ball. I do not want to in-
terrupt the hon. member, and I can answer all the
supplementary questions he wishes to ask. Iwanthim
to be reasonable. The position is that the Union the
hon. member is speaking of has not settledany sugar
dispute in this country; it is not the Union that the









1695


Sugar Producers' Federation negotiated with for wages
for the sugar workers in this country. Perhaps that
time will come, but the time has not yet come.

I am not aware that that Union is the accredited
representative of the sugar workers in this country,
It may have sugar workers among its members, but
it is not the accredited representative of the sugar
workers in this country and, therefore, I can do no-
thing else but take my representations in respect of
sugar workers to the Barbados Workers' Union. Ihave
said that if and when this Union becomes the accredited
representative of any bloc sugar workers, Port
workers, and so on the necessary recognition will
be given to it. As Ihave said, recognition in the Min-
istry depends on the Union the employers are nego -
tiating with and not numbers.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Therefore if the Sugar
Producers' Federation, or the merchants in Broad
Street, choose to ignore the Union, wouldyou not ask
a representative of the Union to approach you? You
are constantly making the threat by saying "whom the
Sugar Producers' Federation recognize." Will the
Hon. Minister listen, please. I am sorry to interrupt
the Minister.

When the Minister said "bloc", does he not see
that that word also connotes a bloc of a particular di-
vision of workers? Does the Hon. Minister mean that,
unless the Union purports to represent all of the em-
ployers and employees in that particular industry,he
is not going to give it recognition?
3.35 p.m.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, this is the
last time I am goingto rise.The position is that if the
Sugar Producers' Federation or any bloc of employers
refuses to recognize the Union and that Union had any
strength whatsoever, it could call a strike and force
the employers to recognize it. If the Union has any
strength, it can bring pressure to bearupon the em-
ployers and make the employers recognize it. You have
an instance where the Barbados Workers Union tried
to get into one of the industries in Grazettes and the
employers did not want to recognize it, and the Union
was strong enough to bringpressure to bear on them.
If a Union has the following and the employers refuse
to recognize it, all they have to do is to tell the work-
ers to sit down.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Does the Hon. Minister
tell the world that seriously? Is he telling the employers
in this Island that the only way they can be forced to
do anything is by a strike? Has the Minister already
forgotten what has just happened in the sugar indus -
try?

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, unless the
hon. member misunderstands me, I said that any Union
that has the strength, if the employers refuse to recog-
nise it, can call on its workers to sit down. The wea-
pon that is used by the Union is the strike weapon. The
hon. member will remember what happened at the
Foundry some years ago. He knows that the weapon
which the Union uses, if it has the strength, is the


threat of a strike, especially if it is an important in-
dustry. If the Union has the strength, it will call a sit
down, and then we will see in this country which Union
is the accredited representative of'the sugar workers.
It was the Barbados Workers Union that called on the
people not to cut the canes. If the hon. member's Union
had the strength, he would tell the people to cut the
canes, but this is not the case.

I would like the hon. member to know that I am
reasonable, and if and when the time comes that Ihave
to make representation on behalf of his Union, the hon.
member can rest assured that it is going to be done.
When it has the strength, then it will be recognized.

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, as a supplementary, I
would like the Minister to say how the Fund would be
distributed.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, I didn't
hear the hon. member.

Mr. SPEAKER: The Hon. Minister has asked the
hon. junior member for St. Peter to repeat his ques -
tion.

Mr. HINDS: With respect to Question No.2, how
will the Fund be distributed?

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, Isaid it is
proposed that the Fund be administered by a Statutory
Board comprised of representatives of the Barbados
Workers Union, the Barbados Sugar Producers Fed-
eration, and the Chief Labour Officer as Chairman.
The people employed by the Board will have Civil
Service status, and it is for this Board to form policy.
Regulations are usually drafted by the Board for the
administration of the Fund. The answer is given in my
second reply. I cannot tell the hon. member how the
Board at this stage will administer the Fund. I can
appoint the Board, but I cannot tell you how the Board
will administer the Fund. I know what will happen is
that the Government, having been advised by the Com -
mittee which went into the matter as to what should
be paid to the workers,have recommended more than
what has been suggested by the Committee. A certain
figure was suggested by the Committee, the Govern-
ment has decided to add to that figure, and the Board
will have to draft its Regulations and devise its policy
as to how it is going to operate. This is all I can tell
the hon. member on this question.

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, since the Board is re-
sponsible for the making of the Regulations, can the
Minister tell me now if this Board is already working
on the Regulations or whether they are awaiting the
passing of the Bill?

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, the hon.
member was in here before me and can teach me the
rules of this House. His junior colleague,the Leader
of the Opposition, can tell the hon. member that the
Board could not be appointed until the legislation has
passed both Houses of the Legislature; so the Board
could not be working. The Board will be comprised of
the Chief Labour Officer, three representatives from









1696


lhe Sugar Producers Federation and three from the
Barbados Workers Union, and they will draft the policy
of operation; but this Board can only be appointed
after the legislation is passed.

DISREPAIR OF ROAD FROM FOSTER
HALL TO BATH

Mr. SPEAKER: Question No. 154 stands in the
name of the hon. junior member for St. John.

Mr. YEARWOOD: Mr. Speaker, the question reads
as follows:

To enquire of the appropriate Minister:-

1. Is Government aware that the road leading
from Foster Hall, St. Joseph, byway of Newcastle to
Bath is in an acute state of disrepair?

2. Will Government, bearing in mindthe im-
portance of the said road as a medium of tourist
traffic along the St. John coast and as a medium for
plantation owners and peasants in the area for trans -
porting their canes to factories during the crop sea-
son, treat the repair of the said road as an urgent
priority?
3.45 p.m.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker,the reply is as
follows: -

"1. Yes, Sir!

2. The reconstruction of the collapsed re-
taining wall at Newcastle has been completed and other
sections of the road are being repaired."

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, I would like to draw to
your attention at this moment that as to Question No.
152 standing in my name, the reply has already been
given, and you gave permission that my submission......

Mr. SPEAKER: I am coming around to that just
now.

Mr. HINDS: I thank you, Sir.

REPAIRS TO ROADS AT DRAX HALL
AND PARISH LAND

Mr. SPEAKER: The next Question to which the
Reply has been laid is Question No. 164, standing in
the name of the hon. senior member for St. James.
That is on Page 10, left-hand column.

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the appro-
priate Minister:-

Is the Minister aware that the roads at Drax Hall
and Parish Land in the parish of St. George are badly
in need of repairs?


Will the Minister have the said roads repaired
as soon as possible?


Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, the Reply is as
follows:-

The roads at Drax Hall and Parish Land, St.
George, are privately owned and therefore do not qua-
lify for repairs at the expense of Government.

Mr. GRAIG: Mr. Speaker, there is just a supple-
mentary question and I hope the Minister will answer
it. The question is this: "Is the Minister aware that the
roads at Drax Hall and Parish Land...?" Therefore I
take it that there is more than one road at Drax Hall.
Will the Minister state whether all the roads at Drax
Hall are privately owned?


Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker,as far as I
know, Yes, Sir, because Drax Hall is a plantation and I
always remember that when Iwas a boy, I used to hear
people talk about Drax Hall and Kendal as the two big-
gest plantations in the Island.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Is the Minister aware
that a plantation can own both sides of a public road?
Is the hon. member aware that I own a part of
Spooners Road, but it is a public road?

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I am
aware that the hon. member owns a part of Spooners
Road, and I am also aware that the hon. member re-
fused to give permission to make that road passable.
(ASIDES.) The hon. member has asked me a question
and I am answering it.

Mr. SPEAKER: Both ae irrelevancies, andplease
do not let us pursue anything about Spooners Hill Road
by way of a supplementary question.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: I might mention Broad
Street between Da Costa's and Knights Limited. They
own a part of Broad Street, but it is still a public road.
That is all I intended to say, but, as usual, the hon.
member shoves in a nasty remark which is utterly un-
true.

Mr. SPEAKER: Dear, dear, please!

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: That man sits there and
tells lies.

Mr. SPEAKER: Please! please! please Iwillask
the Hon. Leader of the Opposition to withdraw that
remark.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: I will withdraw it be-
cause Your Honour has asked me to withdraw it, but
the hon. member constantly sits there and tells lies,
and if nothing is said, it goes out to the public as be-
ing true. (ASIDES.)

Mr. SPEAKER: I thank the hon. member for with-
drawing the remark in deference to the Chair.

ABSENCE OF ELECTRICITY IN DRAX HALL
AND PARISH LAND
Mr. SPEAKER: The next Question to which the
Reply has been laid is Question No. 165, also stand-









1697


ing in the name of the hon. senior member for St,
James. That is also on Page 10, left-hand column.

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the appro-
priate Minister:-

Is the Minister aware that there is no electric
service in Drax Hall nor in Parish Land in the parish
of St. George?

Will the Minister use his good offices to see that
electricity is installed in the said districts as soon as
possible?

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, the reply is as
follows: -

There is an electric service in a section of the
Drax Hall area. The Barbados Light and Power Com -
pany has plans for the extension of this service in the
near future.

Information has been received that the Barbados
Light and Power Company has not receivedanypeti-
tions for the provisions of an electric service in Parish
Land and consequently has not included this area in
its expansion programme.
Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the Minister
can tell us whether the Barbados Light and Power
Company's programme for this particular area is part
of its Community Project Programme or its com-
mercial programme as such. i (After a pause.) Mr.
Speaker, I am wondering if the Minister understands
what I mean by "Community Project" in the first place,
by the Barbados Light and Power Company.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, if the hon.
member is trying to be facetious, I will deal with him
to suit. What does he mean by "Community Project"?
The Barbados Light and Power Company, like the
Barbados Telephone Company, the Coca-Cola Com-
pany or any other company is here to make money.
If the Barbados Light and Power Co. instal light and
you use it, it is evident that you have to pay for it.
What does the hon. member mean by "Community
Project" or "Commercial Project?" I do not un-
derstand that. Both of them go together. If the Com-
pany puts in light as a facility, you have to pay for
it. It is something just like the Waterworks. We
put down water and you pay for it. It is a facility,
and therefore I do not know what the hon. member
is trying to ask.

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, Iwonder if the Minister
understands that the Barbados Light & Power Com-
pany sets out a programme, or rather lays out a pro-
gramme to go into a particular area whether it has
requests from people in a particular area for services
or not. (A PAUSE).

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, I see that the Minister
indicates that he probably will not be answering the
question, but genius does what it must, while talent
does what it can. May I just ask this supplementary
question and I hope the Minister will answer this one.
Is it the policy of the Barbados Light & Power Com-


pany or of the Government that electricity is only given
in places where petitions are made?

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: It is not the policy either of
the Company or the Government, but the Company in
installing electricity always instals it in places where
it is most likely that the people in the area will utilise
the services. This is a natural, commonsense thing;
any village idiot would know this. I have known where
Mr. Arthur Bethell wanted to put electric light in
Spring Vale, but it was not economically viable for the
Company at the time to plant the poles down there, so
that they charged Mr. Bethell something like $2,000 or
$3,000 to run the poles and the wires to his home. As
a result of that, they put the transformer to take the
current down by Mr. Bethell's home. It is only recent-
ly that I have been able to get the Company to put in a
transformer higher up in order to serve the people in
the community. If you have a built- up area, it is evi-
dent that the Barbados Light & Power Company will
try to get the service in there because they are sure
that the standard of living here is such that the people
are going to use these facilities. On the other hand, if
it is an area where the people can ill afford at the
time to use the facilities, you must remember that
this is a place which, as I said before, is trying
to make money, and no investor is going tohave
$100,000 or $200,000 tied up for over ten or fif-
teen years without knowing that he is getting back
his returns. If you are going to do that, then you
are not a wise investor.
This is just what happens with the Company. What
we have been doing, what the Democratic Labour
Party has been doing since it came into power, is that
we have been giving full co-operation with threatening
the Company with nationalisation we have been get-
ting full co-operation from the Company, and the Com-
pany's programme for this year is an extensive one.
Sometimes you see them put the poles here and they
do not come back to put up the wires on the poles un-
til some six months after. That is so because they are
trying; as Sparrow has said: "Don't fret; everybody
going' get". Barbados was not discovered today; it was
discovered over three hundred years ago and it had
people representing it before the Democratic Labour
Party came into power. Why did they not know about
this electricity when it was much cheaper at the time?

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, the Hon. Minister
seems to be warming up, but I do not think that it is
necessary for him to do so. Ido not think that he has
really answered the supplementary question, because
if he thinks......

Mr. SPEAKER: Well, let the hon. member put a
further supplementary question.

Mr. CRAIG: That is what I am going to do, Sir.
If the Minister says that it is not the policy either
of the Barbados Light & Power Company or the policy
of the Government to wait on petitions, then I can con-
clude that it is the lack of proper representation in the
particular constituency whereby the representatives
of that constituency fail to get in petitions for these
people. Hence, Mr. Speaker......
Mr. SPEAKER Where is the question mark?









1698


Mr. CRAIG: I am putting the supplementary ques -
tion now.
3.55 p.m.

The Minister says that it is not the policy of Gov-
ernment, it is not the policy of the Electric Company.
What would be the policy of getting electricity in
these areas? If he can answer that, I wouldbevery
grateful.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: I do not intend to prolong
this, but I have to set the record straight. The Elec-
tric Company, far from what the people were told
years ago, has not yet been nationalised. It is still a
private concern.

I, as Minister of Communications, have to go some
times and plead and beg, because if they have their
programme they are not waiting until people like me
come to them. Their programmes hae been fully ear-
marked. The Electric Company has placed poles in
certain areas that they have not managed to get back
to yet.

Mr. Speaker, you yourself know that there are
certain parts of St. Lucy where you never thought you
would see light. There are also parts of St. Andrew,
and the same thing applies to St. Thomas. The whole
island will get.

Barbados was not discovered six years ago. It
was discovered some hundreds of years ago, but elec -
tricity came to Barbados somewhere in the early
1700s and only now some people know that people
should get light. What was happening with 17 years
of representation on the other side?

Mr. SPEAKER: Question No. 152 standing in the
name of the hon. junior member for St. Peter, Page
8 left hand column. I allowed that question to stand
over at a previous meeting of this House.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Speaker as far as I un-
derstand, this concludes Question Time.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: On a point of order, Sir,
I first said 4 o'clock. Then Iunderstood that it was
indefinite. No hour was fixed.

Mr. SPEAKER: A question has been raisedas to
the interpretation of the motion which was passed
earlier as moved by the Leader of the House as re-
gards to suspension of Standing Order 14. Will the
Deputy Clerk read the motion as it was passed?

Mr. CLERK: "It has been moved and seconded
that Standing Order No. 14 be suspended."

Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Speaker, Iwantto make
my position clear. When the Leader of the House first
intimated this, he mentioned 4 o'clock. In order to re -
gularise the motion he merely stated that he wanted
to suspend the Standing Order as such. The idea be-
hind it was that he wanted to stop at 4 o'clock.

Mr. SPEAKER: My interpretation of it is that
Question time may continue until the end of Private


Members' Business which is 4.30, and that at 4.30
we automatically revert to Government Business.

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, that is your interpre-
tation, but my understanding about it is that the Lead-
er of the House askedthat it be extended to 4 o'clock,
and I understand that it was 4 o' clock. This indefi-
nite period I do not understand. I understand that
4 o' clock was mentioned. If I did not understand it
like that, I would not have agreed with it not to run
until Private Members' Business is out, but o'clock

Mr. SPEAKER: Question Time is part of Private
Members' Business. It normally ends at 3.15 p.m.
and Private Members' time normally ends at 4.30 p.m.
By the suspension of Standing Order No. 14 my under-
standing of the intention of the House certainly my
interpretation, my understanding was that by the sus -
pension of the Standing Order Question Time continues
beyond 3.15 p.m. to the end of private time, namely
4.30 p.m.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: I must repeat that Iun-
derstood that the motion was for 4 o'clock. Then I
was told no, that the motion of the Leader of the House
was indefinite. I do not mind if you go on or not go
on, but it was as plain as daylight because I corrected
the word in my motion.

Even if I may appear to be correcting Your Hon-
our, Question Time is not Private Members' Business,
Any member of the Government can get up and ask a
question. My reply to the hon. junior member for St.
Thomas will be mild and polite. It does not matter to
me whether we go on with Private Members' Busi-
ness. Nothing has been decided on that.
4.05 p.m.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: It is a practical issue, Mr.
Speaker, which arises out of the present circumstan-
ces. I understand that we do have one or two more
Question s for which replies are ready, but the hon.
members who asked them are not present in their
seats. In view of this, we cannot continue with Ques-
tion Time and Iwould suggest that Question Time has
really come to an end on this occasion. There is no
reason why we should not revert to Private Members'
Business until 4.30 p.m.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: I make this appeal to
the Leader of the House. If we had put off Question
Time because we had started late, automatically we
should put off everything else, including dinner. If you
change 3.30 to 4.00; change 4.30 to5.00; and change
7.00 to 7.30. That is only fair. Why should you deprive
members of their time for Private Members'
Business?

Mr. SPEAKER: Let hon. members understand
that my Ruling is that, as a result of the suspension
of Standing Order 14 today, Question Time which
normally would end at 3.15 would go on if there were
Questions to carry on with, of course, until 4.30 p.m.,
which would be the expiration of Private Members'
Business. I am saying that that is my interpretation
and my Ruling as to the suspension of Standing Order
14. That is all I am saying; but if hon. members do









1699


not want to proceed with Question Time and to proceed
with other business there is a Question in the name
of the hon. member for St. Peter.

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, I do not wantto ques-
tion your Ruling, but it strikes me as very strange that
we are dealing with two things: Question Time and
Private Members' Time. If you are going to suspend
Question Time to a particular time, it should not be
for you to rule that it should go to 4.30 p.m. because
it would encroach on the time for Private Members'
Business. Private Members have agreed to give up
some of their time,but not all of it; so let us carry on
now with Private Members' Business until 4.30 p.m.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, I would
like to make one observation. My friend, the hon.
member for St. Joseph, does not seem to appreciate
that Question Time is Private Members' Time. The
Questions are asked by Private Members in the
Chamber and answered by the Government. Now, cer-
tain hon. members are not here and we cannot an-
swer the Questions, although we have replies for them.
Hon. members on the other side cannot come over
here and do Government Resolutions. We have the re-
plies, but the members on the other side who asked
them are not present. Our answering Questions on
this side is conditioned by the presence of members
on the other side.

Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. junior member for St.
Peter is here, and there are two Questions, I under-
stand, for which answers are laid and the Questions
are in his name. If that hon. member does not want
to proceed -

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, before I proceed to
Question No. 152, Ithink it may be appropriate to draw
Your Honour's attention to the fact thatatpage 5, left
hand corner, today's Order Paper, Question No. 72
was asked by me almost one year ago on the 27th
June, and the only reply that Ihave received, sofar
to any part of that Question, is what came from the
lips of the Minister of Labour not many minutes ago
when he pointed out that when the Barbados Workers'
Union was trying to get into the garment industry at
Grazettes it discovered that the employers were un-
willing to let their employees become members of the
trade union.

Mr. SPEAKER: It is either that the hon. member's
eye-sight is worse than mine or vice versa, but I have
that on page 3, and that is what is worrying me.

Mr. HINDS: It is on page 5, but my Order Paper
is dated a different date from Your Honour's

Mr. SPEAKER: Mine is dated 18th June. The hon.
member is simply drawing attention to the fact that
no answer has been laid for that Question. Does the
Hon. member want to proceed with Question No.152
standing in his name?

Mr. HINDS: Yes, if the Minister is ready. The
question is in respect of the Parent Teachers' Asso-
ciation. I am sure that this will go on beyond 4.30 p.m.-


It is a lengthy question, and I have quite a number of
supplementaries, which are very pertinent, that I
would like Your Honour's permission to ask.

Mr. SPEAKER: Of course I do not knowhow sa-
tisfactory to the hon. member will be the answers.

Mr. HINDS: The Minister of Education will give
the answers, Sir.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I think we had
given an undertaking to the hon. member that the sup-
plementaries could be held over. I do not have the file
here at the moment; so I would not be able to assist
him with any supplementary questions which he may
ask arising out of the answers. Itake it that notice has
now been given that he wishes to pursue the matter,
and I will bring along the file next week.

Mr. HINDS: Thank you. There is another question
about the Mental Hospital and a policeman beatinghis
wife.

Mr. SPEAKER: What is the number? Is it No.427
In the case of the two members who are not present,
I will allow the answers to stand over this meeting,
but I hope that arrangements will be made for other
members to take care of all of these Questions at the
next meeting at Question Time.
4.15 p.m.


Apparently there are no more questions which hon.
members are willing to deal with now, other than those
which I have allowed to stand over.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, I am
merely drawing to Your Honour's attention that the
clock is fast, just as the Public Buildings clock is fast
by Greenwich Mean Time. Your Honour didn't rule
on a previous occasion what time we go by, but the
Public Buildings' clock has for some time been two
minutes fast. It is now saying or about to say a quar-
ter after four.

Mr. SPEAKER: Would the Hon. Leader of the
Opposition care to say what is the time by his watch
and I will tell him whether it agrees with the Speak-
er's time?

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: It is just fifteen minu-
tes and thirty seconds after four o' clock.

Mr. SPEAKER: I am afraid the hon. member's
chronometer is two minutes slow, according to the
time of the Chair. Would the hon. member please set
his watch?
Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: I have been told that this
make watch is guaranteed by the makers to be slow or
fast two minutes in a year.

Mr. SPEAKER: And the Hon. Leader of the House
suggests that this is the day.

We have arrived at the stage where there are no
more questions proposed to be discussed, andwe re-









1700


-vert to Private Members' Business, the first Order
of which is to resume debate on the Budget Resolution,
and when the debate was last adjourned the hon. senior
member for St.Josephwas onhis feet, He is now per-
fectly entitled to resume.

RESOLUTION RE BUDGETARY PROPOSALS

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, on the last occasion,
I think I ended on the point Iwas making relative to
National Insurance. The Hon. Minister was not inhis
place then and I am proud to see him now. I will not
repeat all I have said, but I will continue on points
which I did not make on the last occasion.

I had already made the point with respect to
salesmen in this country canvassing supermarkets
and so on for orders to deliver eggs and poultry from
Trinidad, and I asked the Government at the time
what they were doing in the matter since it is true.
After I mentioned it, sir, some of the poultry deal-
ers here confirmed what I said, and they said that
the product from abroad was being offered at a price
cheaper than they could sell it here. The Government
should go into this matter and not allow these people
to come here and push our local dealers outside. I
understand that Trinidad has done and is doing their
utmost to help the poultry dealers there by subsidies -
ing the feed to helpthem to compete with other coun-
tries. I wonder if the Minister is willing to do like-
wise here or whether he is going to sit back and al-
low everything to go to ruin just as at the beginning
of the crop season when we nearly had all the canes
burnt down before the Government did anything. But
I will get to that later.

Now I also understand that the Poultry Breeders
Association had approached the Minister since
February asking for help, and up to now nothing has
been done.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: On a point of order, I
would like the hon. member to say which Minister,
because there are two Ministries concerned in this
matter, and certainly it is not mine.

Mr. SPEAKER: That certainly is not a point of
order.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: The reason I rose on
a point of order is because I am Minister of Agri-
culture responsible for poultry industry; and there
is the Minister responsible for Trade. Iwantto know
which Minister the Poultry Breeders approached.

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, it appears that the
Minister is very touchy. Is he only responsible for
Agriculture and not the Government? Do you mean
he has nothing to do with anything else in the coun-
try apart from Agriculture? If he can do any good,
say, in the Ministry of Communications or the Min-
istry of Trade, is he nothing to do with it? What kind
of Cabinet is this? As Isaid, Sir, the Poultry Breed-
ers Association approached the Ministry forhelp so
that they would be able to supply theirproduct much
cheaper to the consumer, because the price of feed


especially since devaluation of the pound, is causing
great concern in that industry like most industries,
and yet since February nothing has been done. I can-
not remember the date the letter was sent but I do
not think a reply has been given to them.

Now, Sir, if we want to help the people of this
country, both the consumer and the producer, the Gov-
ernment has to do just as Trinidad and I presume the
other countries are doing, that is, do everything
possible to help. These people can fly over from
Trinidad and come into our little island to offer much
cheaper poultry and eggs. We want them cheaper; but
if that is being done, then it is tantamount to telling
the people here who are already operating to pull up
their stakes, although the Government will still be
saying that we cannot encourage unemployment.
4.25 p.m.

Every little "nay nay" industry they try to let
come in here I see, Sir, that you are looking very
surprised when I say "nay nay", but the Prime
Minister referred to it the last time when he was
here, and if the Prime Minister can say "nay nay",
then I should be saying "no no". '(Laughter)..

Mr. SPEAKER: I am wondering how that will
appear in the Official Gazette.

Mr. SMITH: The Prime Minister used it, and if
the Official Gazette did not take three or four months
before it comes out, Iam sure you will have seen that
word "nay nay" used by the Prime Minister at the
last meeting.

Mr. SPEAKER: I wish it was only three or four
months.

Mr. SMITH: Is it more, Sir? If the Government
allows that state of affairs, the Poultry Breeders'
Association will have to quit. Would that be fair to
them? The Government must do something. I under-
stand that they are losing money now. I will not tell
them to stop the importation because if it is coming
in cheaply, I will gain; but at the same time when I
am making full use of a cheap lep, there will be some
families who cannot even see a feather. In other
words, when you and I will be able to buy a cheap
chicken leg, the people here who have been put out
of work, will not be able even to see a feather. I
would not like to see that I am getting nice, cheap
legs mean fowl ones -(Laughter) while other people
cannot even get a fowl's back. (Hon. N.W.BOXILL:
Fowls or chickens?) Mr. Speaker, I wantyouto speak
to the hon. junior member for St. Thomas and tell him
not to interrupt me when I am speaking.

Mr. SPEAKER: At least he should not let me
hear him.

Mr. SMITH: It might be the canopy there which
takes away the sound from there.


Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. member need notbe so
modest What he was talking about interests me greatly.


--I


1. _~









1701


Mr. SMITH: Sir, the Minister was all ina hurry
to jump up and say thathe wanted to know which Min-
ister I was referring to, but why did he not jump up
and say: "Not so, neither the Government nor any-
body in the Government knows anything about this ap-
proach or about this letter being sent raising
a distress flag and askingfor help"? Why does he not
deny that now? Although I would doubt that he would.
When we come to this CARIFTA, Free Trade Area or
something of the sort, we stand to lose from that.
Trinidad can bring in their supplies here and put us
out of commission.

At this stage, it now being 4.30 p.m. of the clock,

Mr. SPEAKER: We have now come to CARIFTA
at 4.30 o' clock p.m. (Laughter). Whenthe considera-
tion of Private Members' Business comes to anend.

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

Mr. SPEAKER: The first Order of the Day under
Government Business stands in the name of the Hon.
Leader of the House:-

To move the House into Committee of Supply to
consider the grant of sums of money for the service
of the Island.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move
that Your Honour do now leave the Chair and the
House go into Committee of Supply.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: I beg to second that.

The question was put and resolved in the affirma-
tive without division.

Mr. SPEAKER left the Chair, and the House went
into Committee of Supply, Mr. YEARWOOD in the Chair.

SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES 1968-69 No. 3

A Resolution for the sum of $124,000 was called.

HEAD 16 PRIME MINISTER'S OFFICE

ERECTION OF A MEMORIAL

Head 16 Prime Minister's Office was called.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Chairman, I begto move
that Head 16 Prime Minister's Office Item 29
(New) Erection of a Memorial for the sum of $4,000
stand part of the Schedule. In truth and in fact, this
is merely a revote of a sum which was passed by
Resolution No. 12/1968 under which fundswerepro-
vided in February of this year for meeting the cost
of beautifying the site of the late Sir Frank Worrell's
grave which is at Cave Hill, but the money could not
be beneficially utilised before the endof the financial
year, with the result that the $4,000 lapsed and we
are asking for this money to be revoted so as to car-
ry through the work during the financial year. I beg
to move that this Head stand part of the Schedule.


Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON:- beg to second that.

Trhe question was put and resolved in the affirma-
tive without division.

H3AD 40 MINISTRY OF HEALTH AND
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT

ERADICATION OF YELLOW FEVER MOSQUITO
Head 40 Ministry of Health and Community De-
velopment was called.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Chairman, in movingthe
passing of this Head which is for the sum of $120,000
to supplement the amount which was included in the
Estimates for the continuation of the eradication of
the Aedes Aegypti Mosquito, Ithink it is only fair and
right that I should give a little background very brief-
ly to hon. members who have not had very many
years experience in here, and who may want to hear
something about this campaign. The Aedes Aegypti
Campaign was started in 1956 as part of a regional
approach to eradicate this mosquito from the Carib-
bean area and from the South American continent,
and it was sponsored by the Pan American Health
Organization, the World Health Organization, and the
UNICEF and the respective Governments of the
area. The UNICEF supplied insecticides and, in some
cases, vehicles used in the Campaign. The Pan Ameri-
can Health Organization supplied the expert techni-
cal advice, vehicles, insecticides and the main form
of equipment which is sprayed cans. Of course, this
Government has always been responsible for the cost
of the local personnel and the cost of transport.
4.35 p.m.

Between 1956 and 1965 it was run on an island
wide basis; but in 1965 the Government reduced its
contribution, and certain retrenchments in the way of
personnel became necessary, and the campaign was
then confined to the St. Michael and Christ Church
areas where the breeding of the mosquito was most
persistent.

Only one spray gun was used to cover the other
areas of the island, and during the course of the whole
of that period the volume of breeding of the Aedes
Egypti mosquito was very much reduced, but complete
eradication was never achieved. That brings us up to
date as to now.

Therefore, Sir, the supplementary Resolution in
the sum of $120,000 which we are asking the House to
vote here today is for carrying on the campaign in a
more expanded form. As the note sets out, for a num-
ber of reasons the Aedes Aegypti Eradication Cam-
paign has so far had only limited success. It is
considered that an expanded programme is necessary
if satisfactory results are to be attained.

It is proposed thatthe Programme should be put
in charge of a Chief Public Health Inspector who will
be assisted by 3 Public Health Inspectors as regional
supervisors, and a field force of 15 squad leaders
and 75 aedes inspectors instead of the present field
force of 8 supervisors and 50 inspectors.









1702


Plans for an intense three (3) year drive have-
therefore been drawn up in collaboration with the
Pan American Health Organisation, and the additional
funds required are to assistwiththe financingof this
new effort during its first year of operation.


Further assistance is expected from PAHO
throughout the implementation of the newproposals.


Of course everyone knows that the Aedes Egypti
carries Yellow Fever. If there are any further ques-
tions or any further information I will give it. I
merely say that we will now increase the staff, and
a training course is now in progress for the 75 new
Inspectors whom we expect to be carrying on the
campaign. From the 1st July we expect to launch
the campaign as such and the new Inspectors are
being trained so that they will be au lait with their
duties, and from the 1st July we will be ready to
start actively the campaign on an island wide basis,
and not only in St. Michael and Christ Church.


I beg to move that Head 40 Item 164 stand part.


Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Chairman, I for one will support
this Resolution; but while I support this I should al-
so like to make some observations. What forcibly
strikes me is that this Addendum says at No. 2 that
for a number of reasons the Aedes Aegypti Eradica-
tion Campaign hasi so far had only limited success. It
is considered that an expanded programme is neces-
sary i f satisfactory results are to be attained.


From the Minister's comments, Sir, it would
appear as if this campaign was going on for the past
twelve years. For What reason we have had only limi-
ted success over alperiod of 12 years I must confess
is a question that the Minister will have to answer.


I am quite sure that all Barbadians will hate to
know today that some reckless journalist ever put
one single item in a newspaper, either local or
abroad, that there is an outbreak of Yellow Fever or
that there is only one case of Yellow Fever reported
in Barbados because from one of the Prime Minister's
recent statements he said where the economic
power of Barbados will soon lie in the hands of
tourism; and if such a report came out in a news-
paper, one could rest assured that every hotel in
Barbados would certainly be closed down overnight.

If the Hilton Hoeel wouldbe closed Ido not know,
because reading the New Commonwealth only recently
I discovered that the Prime Minister said that it was
never built as a commercial enterprise that is one
of the most amazing things I have ever seen that
it was built so as to give hoteliers in the outside world
an incentive to build hotels in Barbados. I know that
he could not be misquoted because it was an article
written for this magazine in which other prominent


Commonwealth Prime Ministers also wrote for this
magazine. So, as far as the Hilton having to close
down is concerned, it does not matter because it is
not a commercial venture.


But, Sir, what really bothers me is that the Aedes
Aegypti is a domestic type of mosquito. He breeds pri-
marily around houses and where there are vases of
flowers or in places where clean water can be found.
That is where you find him most. Like the Curepe,
he also breeds in garbage, and the garbage disposal
of this country, Mr. Chairman, is one of great im-
portance.



It is one that can breed mosquitoes, and it can
breed rats, and a recent thing now breeding is a thing
known as culling where you find children and old
people particularly going into dump heaps in search
of refuse which they consider as good good refuse
out of refuse. It is not a good sight to take a stroll
down Broad Street or any one of the side streets
around this time and find children and old women
culling.




If that is so and we have only had limited success
over a period of 12years that we have used the spray-
ing system, there is also I believe another very
important factor that Government must look at and
correct and that is an incinerator for this country,
4.45 p.m.

In 1965 they gave it some consideration and,
after an expensive search around Florida by some
Health Inspectors and other persons that Government
had sent up to Miami, it was decided that to have an
incinerator for this country would cost approximately
$1 million.


Hon. C. E. TALMA: On a point of order or ex-
planation. I would just like to get the record straight.
Government did not stand the expense of sending up
the delegation. They went up at the expense of the
makers of the incinerator.


Mr. CRAIG: Sir, I thank the Hon. Minister for his
very kind information, but I believe that it even
makes my point stronger. If the makers are interested
in putting an incinerator in Barbados to get rid of the
garbage, if the makers are interested in putting an
incinerator dbwn here in the interest of Barbados,
then what is the Barbados Government interested in?


Hon. C. E. TALMA: I am sorry to interrupt the
hon. member. It merely proves that the makers of
the incinerator are interested in business. If they had
sent it down here for $3 million, it would be of
interest.









1703


Mr. CRAIG: I am quite sure, Sir, that the Hon.
Minister would know that at that time it would not have
cost $3 million, but I am sure if it had been put down
for $3 million, it would have been better than giving
C. B. C. $2 1/2 million to fritter away. If the makers
are interested in business, they are just like
Thomson. He was interested in putting C. B. C. there
when the Barbados Government was called upon to
find $2 1/2 million, while an incinerator, which should
have been here to take care of the rats that carry a
disease called jaundice and which would have taken
care of the same Aedes Aegypti, was not provided
for the people in this country. It would have cost $3
million then, but the Government thought it would
have been wiser to give C. B. C. $2 1/2 million.

Another thing that strikes me is this. From
where are the people who go around spraying re-
cruited? As the Minister said, they are given two-
weeks' course, I am told. How can a man who is un-
der the supervision of three Chief Public Health
Inspectors, and then placed under the supervision
of 15 squad leaders who, I believe, are the people
who have worked on the campaign before, do a pro-
per job? I am confident that the Minister will agree
with me that the salaries which are paid to these
75 Aedes inspectors are so low that they cannot
attract a suitable person to carry out the campaign
and because of that the young men who go around
spraying have found themselves in the very awkward
position on several occasions where they make re-
ports that there are no Aedes mosquitoes around.

On the other hand, these people are so inex-
perienced that only some time ago at Marine Gar-
dens a lady by the name of Mrs. Hull had her house
sprayed and $300 worth of fish in her aquarium were
destroyed. (Asides.) Whether she is black or white,
I am not concerned with her colour. Whether she is
a Barbadian or not, she was living in Barbados and
fish in her aquarium valued at $300 were destroyed
because of the lack of knowledge on the part of these
young men who do this job. They sprayed the woman's
fish, and it cost her $300. Unfortunately, she is not
in a position to recover this money.

What I think is very, very important is that these
people should be paid proper salaries in order to
attract a better type of person with a better type of
mentality to do the job. I am quite sure that along
with the incinerator we would find ourselves in a
position of not taking 13 years to eradicate these
mosquitoes, which can knock the whole economic
structure of the country off its legs by way of one
single case of yellow fever reported and, as the
Minister says, the Aedes Aegypti carries yellow
fever.

Quite recently we heard of three persons who
got off a yacht on the West Coast and came into Bar-
bados. They said that they were in Martinique and,
because of the unrest in France, they got off at Para-
dise Beach or Coral Reef. Let us assume that one of
these persons could have been carrying the disease of
yellow fever. One single mosquito could have stung


that man during the night and caused a lot of trouble.
It is not merely a question of spraying, but you will
have to get rid of the garbage on the streets. You
merely have to go through St. James and places on the
West Coast where you have "A" Class Hotels, and
you will see the condition of things. You can go into
the villages: Sea View, Orange Hill, Carlton and so on
and you will see garbage heaped up there for weeks.
This is something that will have to be done on an
Island-wide basis. My contention is that spraying is
not the only thing to be done in order to control the
mosquitoes. I have been reliably informed from a
critical source that these mosquitoes also breed in
garbage; therefore, an incinerator should be a
priority so far as Barbados is concerned.

Mr. Chairman, you live in the Parish of St. John
and you know of the conditions up there. I am quite
sure that there is a dump in St. John, and when you
pass there at night you have to hold your nose. You
merely have to pass by Clapham to understand what
I am talking about. Government should think of getting
the help of the Pan American Health Organisation.
The Minister said that the makers of the incinerator
invited people to see the operation of the incinerator.
It is now Government's duty not only to try to eradi-
cate the mosquito by way of using spray guns, but
also by installing an incinerator. That, I am quite
sure, would be a credit to this country.

Mr. Chairman, I hope the Hon. Minister, know-
ing him as well as Ido,will give me whatever infor-
mation is at his disposal in relation to this matter,
and I am confident that he will force the hands of
Government as much as he can inorder to see that
there is a proper disposal of refuse in this country.
4.55 p.m.

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Chairman, I think that I can say
that the Minister is in possession of an abundance of
evidence which will bear out that his asking this
House to vote this sum of money cannot be considered
to be in the best interest of Barbados. The Minister
ought to know that there are three things outstanding
upon which the success of this type of campaign must
depend. The Minister has come to us for money; but
apart from money, Mr. Chairman, there is the need
for administration. In addition to that, and very essen-
tial is the need for trained and efficient personnel.

Now the Minister must know that in Jamaica Dr.
Peat, who was then Jamaica's Chief Medical Officer,
after a campaign had been conducted for ten years
at a cost of 45,000 per year trying to eradicate
this same mosquito, was man enough and had the con-
science to warn the Jamaica Government to abandon
the campaign. Now we have been told, Mr. Chairman,
that this spraying campaign has been carried on
for years and, as the Addendum tells us, with limited
success. Before the Minister decided to come and
ask this House to vote $120,000, didhe set about to
diagnose the cause for only limited success, or is
it not one of those cases where money has been
spent for a number of years in finding employment
for a number of people, and you go on year after









1704


year to find that even after this $120,000 have been
spent in its first year we will be faced in a second
year with a request for more money with only limi-
ted success?

I have it here, Mr. Chairman, that on the 5th
March, 1958, Dr. F. N. Grannum, who was Senior
Medical Officer of Health in Barbados, said that
an initial survey into the mosquito population in
Barbados had revealed that there were 14 in every
hundred houses which bred the mosquito. I am to
wonder if the Minister can tell us on the eve of this
new campaign what percentage of houses carry the
mosquito, especially in the Christ Church and St.
Michael areas, because however you look at these
two parishes, when it comes to the question of housing
and population, they are almost the whole of Barbados.
You will find, Mr. Chairman, that it is not merely
a question of coming here and asking for $120,000.

Dr. Byer was our Chief Medical Officer here,
and after the campaign had been going for quite a
number of years, he found it absolutely necessary
at one time to take stock, so to speak. I did not agree
then with his method of stock-taking because, as I
said at that time and will say now, he set out to take
what we call a swipe at the general public, in that he
attributed the lack of success to the unwillingness of
the public to permit the spraying to go on inside their
houses. But, Mr. Chairman, what was of very much
importance at that particular time was that with a
force of Public Health Inspectors of something like
80 strong, he charged that the Public Health Inspec -
tors were not giving the fullest cooperation; but he
had not one word to say about the 33 Aedes Aegypti
Inspectors.

I am to say at this stage that one of the things
that has caused our Public Health matters to be in
the present state of erosion is that it has always
been found that Public Health was taken and put into
the hands of medical men. Now, Sir, Public Health is
a preventive exercise; the medical man is concerned
with the curative end of it; and if you put Public
Health in the hands of medical men, there must be
erosion at some particular point, and we have had an
abundance of experience in this respecthere in Bar-
bados. When the Central Government in this Island
decided to take over Public Health, one of the most
important aspects or facets of Public Health still
remained in the hands of the Interim Commissioner,
and that is scavenging. They have not touched sca-
venging, and they do not intendto touch it; it is on-
erous, it is smelly, and it is on account of not having
people specially trained in Public Health matters to
administer these Public Health schemes that Bar-
bados has always been doomed to failure in matters
of Public Health.

Now, Mr. Chairman, you will find that money is
one thing, but what we find is that the taxpayer as such
does not really get to know that every request for a
dollar through the medium of this Chamber is a re-
quest for a dollar out of the taxpayers' pockets. Hence,
when the Minister gets up and tells you he wants
$120,000 to assist in eradicating the Aedes Aegypti


mosquito, the Minister knows or ought to know that
he is asking for $120,000 to play the possum, and we
want to warn the Minister to open his eyes and ears.
We appreciate all that Pan American Health Organi-
sation, World Health Organisation or any other body
might attempt to do for us. We are not unmindful of
all they may try to do; but nevertheless there is no
point taking all these experts and sending them down
here to do all paper work. You want people who will
come out and go alongside the Inspectors and train
them.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: On a point of explanation,
this is exactly what Pan American Health Organi-
sation is doing. This present campaign will be su-
pervised by three experts of Pan American Health
Organisation who are at present engaged in training
the personnel for the last two weeks, with another
two weeks to run, making four weeks' training. Some
of the old Inspectors are being trained to bring them
up to date; all are not new.
5.05 p.m.

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Chairman, it is an easy thing
to teach children how to operate an old musket. When
you want soldiers to go on the battlefield, they have
to undergo a period of training in musketry. The
Minister seems to think that this is a case of going
and throwing mould on night soil. It is not that. The
Minister has to be taught now; I have been listening
to him, Mr. Chairman. Many of the Public Health
Inspectors in this Island are people who under went
years of meticulous study in order to gain what they
call their R. S. I. Certificate in those days. What
is the Minister telling us now? That he can now take
a man and train him for two weeks and then some-
body gives him his presence for two weeks more?
That is responsible for this very limited success
with which we are faced in the notes in this Addendum.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: On a point of order. Mr.
Chairman, this whole campaign is being properly
conducted. Do not let us be misled with wild state-
ments of this kind. The whole thing is being run
under Public Health Inspectors who have been pro-
perly trained and who have been seconded for this
work. Over and above that, we have Pan American
Health experts conducting and training them and
bringing them up to a higher standard. There are a
few additional people who might not be one hundred
per cent Inspectors although they have been working
for years in the Aedes Aegypti Campaign. There are
one or two new ones. This debate can go on if you
want it, but I have already given all the information.

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Chairman, the Minister gave us
what information he had and I am now giving the
Committee what information I have. That is what I
am doing, and I am even giving the Minister some
information. What is the Minister telling this Hon-
ourable House? All the Addenum to the Resolution
tells us is that there will be three Public Health
Inspectors who will work as Regional Supervisors.
There will be a field force of 15 squad leaders, and
then there will be another 75 Aedes Inspectors instead
of the present field force of 8 Supervisors and 50









1705


Inspectors. Mr. Chairman, the Addendum tells us
that after a number of years the Government can
only report limited success. I maintain that the suc -
cess is limited because they do not have trained
personnel; they did not have people with administra-
tive ability; but they hadmoney. Iam telling you, Sir,
that in Jamaica and remember that in matters of
Public Health training, Jamaica has always towered
head and heels over us in Barbados, because I think
it is still operative that our Public Health Inspectors
go from here to Jamaica in order to receive some
sort of training. That has been so for many years,
even if it is not so today. Youwill understand, there-
fore, that in a place like Jamaica where they spend
45 ,000 per year, the Chief Medical Officer, after
spending this money for ten years, told them that it
was a waste of time and adrainon the Treasury, and
he suggested to them that they should abandon it. In
the face of these facts, and in the face of our own
Minister, according to the notes in the Addendum
to this Resolution, telling us that after all the years
in this particular Campaign in this particular field
with fifty Inspectors and 8 Supervisors what the
Minister might not be willing to admit is that in
this Island we have people who are trained, effi-
cient and qualified, people who have given their lives'
work for Public Health, and the Government is unwill-
ing to accept the advice, free gratis and for nothing
from people Imeandedicated people -who have
served this community, and I believe that they sleep
and breathe and dream of Public Health when they
put their heads down in their beds at night.

There are people in this Community who,we are
assured, have had the distinction of having to take
some of these same World Health Organisation and
Pan American Health Organization people when they
come to Barbados and teach them the job of Public
Health and teach them Public Health matters. What
you will find, as has happened in the past, is that they
will take a medical man and entrust to him Public
Health matters. There will always be professional
conflict, conflict of interests, and in all of these things
the community stands to suffer. I do not, for one single
moment, suggest to the Hon. Minister that he must
tell the World Health Organisation or the Pan Ameri-
can Health Organization that they are not worrying
with the Campaign now; no, Sir, it will look bad. They
have already started it; but what we are trying to
urge on the Minister is this, that he should see to it
that the Barbados public gets the maximum benefit
for the money which it is going to spend. Too often
have we found that a Minister comes in here and
makes a statement, and he feels that having made that
statement, that should be an end of the matter. It is
not so in this particular case because, Mr. Chairman,
I well remember that after Dr. Byer had compounded
his prescription without having diagnosed the case of
the patient, I wrote in my newspaper atthe time say-
ing that it was the biggest piece of intellectual dis-
honesty that this Island had ever witnessed in matters
of Public Health in this Island.
5.15 p.m.

I maintain so today in respect of Government
coming to this House and asking us to vote $120,000
before seeking, investigating, trying to diagnose the


cause why our success has got to be put down on pa-
per after so many years as only limited.

I had asked earlier if the Minister would be will-
ing to tell us at this stage inhow many houses out of
over 100 houses they were finding this mosquito. It
is on the basis of that that we can then begin to dis-
cuss this matter in perhaps a little calmer at-
mosphere, because it is not merely because these
organizations are lending us their support, but the
question is can we eradicate the Stegomyia fasciata -
the Aedes Aegypti mosquito. Can we eradicate it?

My contention is that we are wasting precious
time. The approach that can guarantee us success,
because the Barbados Government is just a sort of
appendage to the Pan American Health Organisation
and the World Health Organisation. The Barbados
Government is putting up $120,000, but they are not
masters of the situation in this battle to eradicate
the Aedes Aegypti mosquito. We are just baggage men,
baggage carriers, so to speak.

The Government does not I repeat does not
possess anybody, any qualified officer at Enmore or
wherever you go in this island. The Government does
not have the personnel sufficiently equippedto carry
out Public Health matters generally if we are to
achieve the maximum success at this stage.

It is for that reason that the scheme will for ever
fail. If the Government cannot get the proper advice,
it is to be expected that every move the Government
makes in matters of Public Health will be wrong. You
will know, Mr. Chairman, when the roof of a house is
leaking, a bundle of shingles might be necessary or
part of a bundle. You do not go searching for a motor
mechanic; you get a carpenter.

But, Sir, the Government here has gone on
throughout the years and the most remarkable thing
is this; that our local people who give their lives to
promoting public health, what did they receive in turn?
They were being ignored, and their advice ignored.
The parish of St. Michael, Sir,hadthe services of a
Chief Public Health Officer who, I remember, years
ago made a Report for. the benefit of the Government
on Public Health matters.
We then had an American Consular Officer here,
and the American Consular Officer got hold of a copy
of that Report and passed it on to Washington, and a
host of inquiries came to Barbados. They wanted to
get copies of that particular Report that had been
prepared by the Chief Public Health Officer that we
had in Barbados, in St. Michael.
Copies of that Report were sent to Washington,
and many of the things that you find now being worked
upon in the files of the World Health Organisation
and the Pan American Health Organisation are based
on what was in that Report by a little man from
Barbados. But in Barbados itself the Report was
held to be of no value whatever to any one.
This is the type of thingyou find. People dedicate
their lives to this kind of work. Public Health is
something that one should not go into because of its
remunerative rewards. In Public Health a person









1706


has got to be dedicated. It is a life's work. It is not -
a job. People have got to burnthe midnight oil, so to
speak. They have got to become familiar with every
sort of disease and disease carrier, and that is ex-
actly what some who have been in Public Health for
many years have been able to do.

Mr. Chairman, Sir, weareappealingtothe Min-
ister not to be merely taken up by any grandiose
scheme by these organizations, by these various
bodies; but it is imperative that we look at, that we
examine ourselves to see to what extent, to see where
we have fallen down or where we have not.

You will understand that I have got again to ask
exactly how serious is the Minister, because the Min-
ister told us here, standing on his feet, that the Gov-
ernment found it necessary in 1965 to reduce its
contribution to this Aedes Aegypti campaign. We are to
wonder if the same Minister will jump to his feet
again and explain what led the Government to take
that action in 1965.
5.25 p.m.

If Government found it necessary to reduce its
contribution to this programme in 1965, then let us
know now what has happened between 1965 and today
to make the Minister come here and ask us to vote
$120,000 to assist in one year's vote in this particular
campaign. I am sure, Mr. Chairman, that the Min-
ister cannot say it is not a reasonable request. If
this Honourable House was told in 1965: "We are
reducing the amount of money we have been spending
in eradicating the Aedes Aegypti", then what would
have been the position? For that matter, if in 1965
the Government found that it had acheived so much
success, I am sure that it would not have proved it-
self so abysmally ignorant of Public Health matters
as to have said it has so eradicatedthe mosquito
that it could reduce the amount.
We feel that any Government that by the end of
1965 had found that it had achieved s,. much success,
at least for a year or two would not have attempted
to reduce the amount by one cent and it would
have carried on with its contribution. We also feel
that it is the Minister's duty now to rise and let us
know what happened in 1965 to cause him to reduce
the amount, and what has happened since then to
cause him to come to the House to ask us to vote
$120,000 for this particular campaign. These are the
things with which we are concerned.

Now comes the question of breeding, or the breed-
ing period for the mosquito. We want to repeat that it
is not within the province of the medical man to go
into such minute details. This is the subjectof study;
for the man concerned with Public Health. That is
what the Minister should tell us about. I would like
to know what information the Minister has on the
breeding period. Is it a case where we are going to
engage in the spraying type of campaign that has
failed in Jamaica, that has failed everywhere, and
has failed in Barbados for 10 years and more? Are
we going to continue with the spraying campaign under
this new set-up?
Mr. Chairman, it is no question of serving old
wine to the old type of mosquito. If you were to apply


this to our own day-to- day life,.you would find that
you will take home some kind of insecticide to spray
ants or house pests, and you will go home and find at
times that it will be necessary to drowna particular
type of insect in order to get rid of him.

Let us look now at the other side of the fence.
Let us look at the yellow fever mosquito. Its pre-
sence at any stage is likely to cause alarm, and it
can cost Barbados a large sum of money not only
$120,000 a year; it could cost us that in a minute.
The presence of this mosquito, as the hon. senior
member for St. James has already said, can cause
economic distress; it can bring our tourist industry
to nothing. Do you not think, Mr. Chairman, that the
Government is to be lookedupon in the terms of being
neglectful and to some extent wicked in toyingwith a
matter which could have such dangerous and dreadful
proportions?

Mr. Chairman, time and time again, matters of
this sort have come up to be dealt with by the present
Government. It is only when the Government is goaded
into action and driven that one can find the Govern-
ment making an attempt to do something. Now, Dr.
Byer blamed the members of the public for not co -
operating. Are we to find that, again, we are to be
told to throw our doors open to an Inspector? I must
say that they are called Inspectors, but after a man
has had two weeks' training we are called upon to
throw our doors open and welcome him. He is not
doing community service because he does not know
what he is doi-g.

We feel that if success is to be achieved, then it
will call for more than the Minister has told us. Now,
Sir, we are going to have 75 Inspectors; 15 Squad
Leaders, and 3 Public Health Inspectors. Who is
going to be at the head of them? You have one Chief
Public Health Inspector, and you will find that days
and months may roll over before either of the 3
Public Health Inspectors who will be the Regional
Supervisors, or the Chief Public Health Inspector,
will see one of the 75 field force to know what they
are doing.
5.35 p.m.

Mr. Chairman, all these Inspectors could have
learnt in two weeks is the amount of book work that is
going to be involved in the campaign. We want to hear
from the Minister what additional information he has
on this very vital matter, because it is not merely a
matter of voting money to eradicate mosquitoes. What
assurance can he give us that the percentage of breed-
ing is going to be reduced by the spending of this
$120,000 in one year? What guarantee has he got?
If he had trained personnel, equipment and adminis-
trative machinery, we feel that the Minister would
set about searching himself and give us some indi-
cation of what is to be expected by the end of the year,
but he has been given charge of this Resolution for
$120,000, he puts it before the House and moves that
the Resolution do now pass.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Chairman, onapoint of
order, I went to the trouble of giving a background to
this entire Aedes Aegypti campaign from back down


------------









1707


in 1956, and imagine the hon. member saying that
I merely came and asked to vote the money! I gave
the background from 1956 to the campaignwhichhad
been started by the Barbados Labour Party Govern-
ment when they were in office. It is nothing new. We
carried it on from their time and concentrated on
two parishes, but with the help of Pan American
Health experts, we are expanding the programme to
tackle it and try to eradicate it altogether. With one
breath the hon. member says we are wastingmoney,
and with another breath he says we should do more.
He does not seem to understand what was said ap-
parently.

Mr. HINDS: The Minister got up and made men-
tion of eradicating this mosquito. I want to ask the
Minister to re-examine the whole scheme of things
and tell this House if he is serious when he speaks
of eradicating the mosquito, or whether he is not
more concerned and does he not feel within himself
that he should tell the House that they are attempting
to control the breeding of the mosquito. The question
of eradicating the mosquito will never be accom-
plished, and the Minister ought to know that. Evi-
dently they do not know the meaning of words. Ask
yourself this question, Mr. Chairman. For more
than ten years you have been fighting and doing every -
thing, and on your own admission you say there has
only been limited success. In 1965, Mr. Chairman,
just over two years ago, the situation looked so
hopeless that you decided amongst yourselves that it
was a waste of money, and the Government was not
going to give the amount which it had been giving in
the past years. It is on the strength of that evidence
that we are to examine this case. Youwant $120,000
now. I am willing to sit down at this stage and hear
what the Minister has got to say on what led him to
reduce their contribution in 1965, and to tell us at
this stage before they enter on the new campaign in
how many houses out of every hundred do they expect
to find the breeding of this mosquito. I said earlier
what Dr. Byer found in his day and what was his Re -
port, and also Dr. Grannum's Report. Letus hear what
the Minister has to say now.

Mr. CORBIN: Mr. Chairman, speaking on this
Resolution which concerns the programme of the Par,
American Health Organisation and which is to try to
eradicate the Aedes Aegypti mosquito, I can assure
you that in this Island of Barbados we have to be
thankful, because I scarcely hear of any yellow fever
cases. I have heard so much this afternoon about this
campaign, but the thing Iwas listeningto hear I have
not heard. Now as long as there is a world, a war
will have to be declared by every living human being
in the world against the pests that exist. We have to
fight against and try to eradicate these evils from
taking over. I am calling on every citizen of this
Island to co-operate with the Sanitary Inspec-
tors in fighting against the pests that exist today.

Some years ago I was Chairman of the Public
Health Committee in the Northern District Council,
Mr. Chairman, and I found out the cause of the breed-
ing of rats, mosquitoes and flies. In visiting the
hotels, I saw large cans of waste food and waste


matter which were transported from the hotels to the
dump heaps, and that is where the flies and rats were
breeding.
5.45 p.m.

We are trying to eradicate them in one way and
they are increasing them in the other way. (Laughter).
We are fighting our best to get rid of the mosquitoes,
flies and rats, and the big people today are feeding
them. What are they feeding them with? With food
which should be fed to pigs or buried. As long as you
allow the people of Barbados to throw this stuff and
filth and refuse against the street, you will always find
flies and mosquitoes and rats. All the stuff should
be buried, and when we bring down legislation to
cause people to bury the stuff and all the refuse or
burn it, that is the only possible means of eradicating
such evils. When we talk about the Sanitary Inspec-
tors, if the people do not cooperate with the Sanitary
Inspectors, that is where the evil is existing. The
Sanitary Inspectors do not go out into the jungles,
and you can say that the mosquitoes breed in the
jungles too. Along with the World Health Organiza-
tion which is coming down here to begin the campaign
to find out whether we have the Aedes Aegypti mos -
quito in this Island or not, I am asking the whole of
Barbados to cooperate with these people. If the hon.
junior member for St. Peter has said that the Public
Health inspectors are not qualified, which I have not
seen, well, let the qualified ones come and help us.

Do you think that this sum of $120,000 is as much
as the people of Barbados? If we have to assist that
campaign with $120,000 in order to help search for
this kind of evil, is that too much for us to pay out?
That is not so much. We are fighting against an army
or armies of evil. We are fighting these pests which
we see around the rats, mosquitoes flies and all of
these pests and we say that there is a limited suc-
cess. Mr. Chairman, do you know why it is a limited
success. I will tell the hon. junior member for St.
Peter that as long as the world lasts, we have to
fight this evil and that is why there is a limited suc -
cess. We must continue this fight right on and on un-
til the end of the world. Do not let us feel that we will
fight it today and not tomorrow. We have to try and
cut down the percentage of the evils; otherwise they
will take over and we will come down. It is a battle
which we are fighting, and the only possible means
of success is to allow the householders to assist and
see that they wash and keeptheirwater barrels clean
at least once a week. Wherever water is caught and it
is stagnant, they should try to get rid of it. Wherever
there is stuff, instead of throwing it against the
street, they should have it burnt or buried. That is the
only possible means of getting rid of the evil of
housing the mosquitoes. We ourselves are encourag-
ing it. Any time you see that a person has filth or
stuff or waste matter around his or her home, it is
that person who is encouraging the evil. Mr. Chair-
man, until legislation comes into force to use dras-
tic measures on every householder to see thathe or
she has his or her stuff burnt or buried, we will
have this evil. You go through the street, and in cer-
tain' alleys you will see the onions and the various
kinds of fruits which have been spoilt, all strewn









1708


along the street. I am scornful to see the flies coming
up in the air when one passes; they are enough to
strangle you, and people do not have a can or some
other container to transport this stuff to the various
dumping heaps. I am sure that unless we assist and
try to help the Public Health Inspectors, this evil will
continue to exist.

Mr. Chairman, I do not see that there is any
reason for criticising the expen.'-:ure of this $120,000.
This Money will be spent and we will see the bene-
fit of it at some time. You have Inspectors here, and
the first thing that an Inspector has to learn is the
difference between the Aedes Aegypti mosquito,which
causes the yellow fever, and the other mosquito. He
has to know one mosquito from the other, and as soon
as he knows one mosquito from the other, he is a
a master. All he has to do is to try his best and des-
troy it. He must use as much spray as he can and
kill these pests. Sometime ago, I went to Wanstead.
I was called there, and the first thing I saw was
flies piled up for about two or three inches on the
surface of the earth. What was the cause of that?
All the waste matter, waste food and soon, was sent
from the stores and piled up there. The flies were
like a smokescreen when they went up into the air.
I had to stand a distance away from them. We have
caused that, whereas that stuff should have been
buried. We talk about having an incinerator and we
need one. If they are not going to bury the stuff,
then we need an incinerator, and that is the only
possible means of getting rid of all the evil which
is existing. What we should bury, we keep on the
surface of the earth. Wherever there is a can, a
bottle or whatever it may be, with stagnant water,
let us try and get rid of it. If we want to have a
healthy community, then we have to try and assist
the Inspector at every hand. They will die as well
as we will die as long as that kind of evil is exist -
ing. I am hoping that in this campaign which is
going on, they will search in every street, in every
lane, and in every crevice in order to get rid of
this Aedes Aegypti mosquito. I hope they will
search under the shelves, under the beds, in the
water in the barrel wherever these mosquitoes
are. Mr. Chairman, I have much pleasure in sup-
porting a Resolution of this nature.

Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Chairman, some years
ago when the World Health Organisation made this
recommendation for the eradication of the Aedes
Aegypti mosquito, I was a member of this House and I
was Chairman of the then Commissioners of Health
of St. Michael, which I hadbeen for about fifteen years.
I will repeat what Isaid then. lam one of those people
who do not think that people's health can be measured
in pounds, shillings and pence; but Iam also one of
those people who believe that you have to be guarded
in your expenditure, even although you are dealing
with the health of a community. The sum of $120,000
might sound small in dealing with the eradication of
the Aedes Aegypti mosquito, but I am sure that the
Minister would like to tell me a few simple things
which I will enquire of him. The common mosquito,
the Anopheles, which buzzes around you at night and
which breeds in stagnant water and so on, I think that
that has always been with us; but the Aedes Aegypti


rhosquito, I am told by the authorities and experts,
is the mosquito which carries yellow fever. Yellow
fever in parts of the Caribbean I am thinking of Haiti,
it actually won a war there. You can go into St. Paul's
Churchyard and you can still see some of the tomb-
stones, of people who died of yellow fever. Until
scientistss discovered that yellow fever was car-
i-ed by the Aedes Aegypti mosquito, it was felt that
a lot of these houses here in the Cheapside area or
in the Bay Street area should not be interfered with
because if you interfered with them, the dust, just
as in the time of cholera, would affect you and you
would get yellow fever or what is commonly called
Dengue fever.

When I was Chairman of the Public Health
Committee and before that, Chairman of the Com-
missioners, of Health of St. Michael, every Friday
morning the Chief Public Health Officer, the Medical
Officer it must be understood that menare trained
in medicine and then they branch out in Public
Health who is appointed by the Government or his
Assistant and they have been medically-trained
men- together with the Chief Inspectors would bring
into us all the reports andwe would follow the reports
for each parish, I would say in those days, as to
what was happening. Why I am surprised about this
money today is that I have been told and I have
read that the Aedes Aegypti mosquito is not a
mosquito, contrary to what the last speaker has said,
which breeds in stagnant water or anything of the sort.
It breeds in clean water. Within recent months, we
have not been getting a tremendous amount of rain
in this country. I cannot think of any obstruction
recently, since the law was made clear and known
to everybody, by anyone preventing inspectors or the
lads who were trained to detect the Anopheles mos-
quito from the Aedes Aegypti mosquito from doing
their job. I would say with quite a sense of responsi-
bility, that the difficulty has been, and we have dis -
covered it, that on several occasions where a young-
ster had been appointed to look up and inspect and
find the Aedes Aegypti mosquito, when he reported
on such matters and the officers who were expe-
rienced went behind him, they found out that the
mosquitoes were the ordinary mosquitoes and not
the Aedes Aegypti.
5.55 p.m.

This resulted that I think there was aman from
Trinidad who was working with Dr. Senn, at the time
working with the World Health Organisation. He gave
lectures and demonstrations pointing out the dif-
ference between the type of larvae and mosquitoes
which they wou.d 'ind breeding in vases, in tins out -
side where people would put a 'wn old paint tins, on
shelves i,. ,ie like, but not in stagnant water as has
beeit suggested by the last speaker.

I think that I have made myself clear. It is not
. s. d. that Ivalue but Ithink of the people's health,
but what I would like to know is : will the Minister tell
me or tell this Hou.e havingaskednow for an addi-
tional $120,000 Dengue Fever and Yellow Fever are
compulsorily reportable diseases can the Minister
tell us now, or if he has not got it there, tell us later
how many such cases have been reported within recent









1709


months as compared with the last year or the last two
or three years? All Dengue or Yellow Fever cases
have to be reported, anithe Director of Medi.cal Ser-
vices musr have these a 'his finger tips.


It is compulsory that doctors in this island must
report these cases. It is known by medical science
that yellow fever is carried by the Aedes Aegypti mos -
quito. If it has been foundthat there has been such an
increase in reports of yellow fever or Dengue Feve:
within the last two or threeyears,Iwould say "yes"
I have been a sufferer of Dengue Fever myself and it
is not anything nice. I would say "Yes" immediately
the Government is right to come for this; not just to
say, to ask for the $120,000 because you are increase -
ing staff.

I repeat, Mr. Chairman, that when I was Chair-
man of the Board I remember well that every Friday
morning we would go into this matter, and this inci-
dence of the Aedes Aegypti mosquito had been re -
duced to something below two per cent. The compari-
son was made every year, every month, every week,
and we found that it had been tremendously reduced.

What has caused it now to be so increased that
you have to ask for more money to pay such additional
staff? This idea of not getting cooperation can be given
the damnedest lie that you have ever heard. House-
holders of this country have given and are giving co -
operation in this matter. People have been lecturing.
Inspectors and Public Health Officers have been lec -
turing to people of the danger of having utensils left
with water that can breed Aedes Aegypti mosquitoes.

There was one difficulty which we faced when I
first started, and that was from the type of person go -
ing around who, because he was invested with some
authority, felt that he could be impolite to people
when he went to their houses and wanted to spray.
When this hurdle was got over everything went
smoothly, and then, I repeat, less than two per cent of
the cases have been reported.
While I am willing to vote for the Resolution,
surely this House is entitled to know if you have got
such an increase in yellow fever or Dengue Fever -
and I repeat thatyou are boundto know because the
medical officers are bound by the lawofthis country
to report it to the Director of Medical Services and
it has got to be reported to the Ministry. Therefore
this House should know now what has been the in-
crease.
If the increase is such, I am still worried be-
cause this is not any question of nasty water. This
is not any question of garbage or anything of the
sort and the Minister knows that. This is not gar-
bage or anything of the sort. It is a fresh water thing.
They live in vases, and they live in houses and out-
side, and as far as I am concerned, while I am pre-
pared to vote for this today, what I can say is that up
to 1965 and the Minister cannot deny this up to
1965 this was a tremendous success, and Ichallenge
any Medical Officer,-be he Vaughan-Wells or anyone
else, to say that it was not. Those were the figures
shown then. What is happening now that it is not a
success? What has happened?


This is not a question of garbage disposal or any-
thing of the sort. Is it a question of building new
houses or whatever the case may be? I do not know.
Will the Minister let us know? Particularly I want
to know the incidence of Dengue or/ andyellow fever
as reported. I repeat that that is what the Minister
should tell us.

With all these people you are taking on now, to
the average person like myself larvae are larvae. We
do not know the difference between the Anopheles and
the Aedes Aegypti,andunlessthese young men are
trained by Public Health Inspectors you are wasting
time. I remember that before my time inthis House
we had a Malaria campaign carried on here and a
wonderful job was done by our trained Inspectors
here in Barbados who all qualified themselves to do
this job.

In the circumstances I am sure that the Minister
will like to tell me the answers to the question I have
asked and enlighten us on the matter so that we can
vote freely, with a free conscience, for this $120,000.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Mr. Chairman, with re-
ference to the last remarks I have heard from the
member who has just sat down,when Iread the Ad-
dendum I was frankly amazed. I remember when I was
coming back here that in the course of a conversation
with the then Premier asking how the campaign was
coming on, he gave figures and he said that we had
succeeded to a great extent. I was just amazed.

I got up only to urge, to accompany the mem-
ber who has just sat down, in asking the Minister to
tell us what is the percentage of success from the
year it started until now. I can hardly imagine
that the then Premier would tell me the reverse of
what was the truth.
6.05 p.m.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Chairman, Ithinkit is
my duty, first of all,to assure the House that the in-
cidence of yellow fever is almost non-existent, and
it is under complete control. It is not that any in-
crease has taken place. The incidence of yellow fever
is very low. I cannot give you the exact figures, but,
speaking from memory, I think there have beenthree
cases over the last two or three years. The main
reason for bringing this Resolution here is that Bar-
bados is now a member of Pan American Health
Organisation, and a big campaign is being conducted
throughout the entire area in order, I again repeat,
to attempt to eradicate the Aedes Aegypti mosquito.
If you can control the breeding, you can control the
eradication. One member spoke of controlling the
breeding, and that is a way of eradicating. Apparent-
Sly the hon. member has been well briefed.

The hon. junior member for St. Peter, apparent-
ly, has someone in mind who can be of great assis-
tance in this campaign. Nobody is debarring him. If
he wants to apply, his application will be given due
consideration, and for that reason I would give him
an interview tomorrow. If you have a man who can
assist, then send him forward. Nobody is saying that
our experts do not need assistance. We have three









1710


Specially trained Pan American Health Experts in
Public Health conducting this present campaign, and
we have conducted a Training Course for Public
Health Officers for the first time in recent years
for the entire Caribbean. Ithinkitwas a 4-months'
Course which has recently been completed; so to get
up and say that we have wasted the taxpayers' money
is not right.

For the first time more Nurses are being trained ;
Public Health Inspectors are being trained; Ward
Assistants are being trained; Matrons and every-
body are being trainedfor the first time. I will read
from my file for the benefit of hon. members. We
are now a member of the Pan American Health Or-
ganisation, and a big campaign is being conducted
throughout the entire Caribbean and the Americas.
As a result of Resolution 18, which has been approved
by the 17th Meeting of.the Executive Council of Pan
American Health Organisation which was held in
Trinidad in October, 1967 the Resolution reads: -

"That the Executive Council affirms its con-
viction that the areas still infested with Aedes Aegypti
constitute a serious threat to countries and terri-
tories that have already eradicated the mosquito, as
repeated reinfestations that have occurred in several
countries in the Hemisphere indicate. 1

For that reason the Governing Body of the Or-
ganisation is convinced that the success of the Con-
tinental Eradication Campaign can only be assured
if all sources of reinfestation in the Americas are
promptly eliminated and again call upon the Govern-
ments of countries that are still infested to do every -
thing in their power to achieve eradication of the
vector as soon as possible."

Now, I want to assure the House again, because
unless you say one thing about ten times some mem-
bers do not seem to appreciate what is said. The
incidence of Aedes Aegypti has decreased infi-
nitesimally it is almost non-existent. We have
trained personnel. We have Experts from Pan
American Health Organisation. Here is the base for
Pan American Health Organisation; we have all of
their experts assisting us, and we are making a de-
termined effort with this $120,000 and our trained
personnel to eradicate the mosquito on this oc-
casion for all times. It is only now that we were
able to get the Pan American Experts to help us.
I am not trying to fritter away the taxpayers' money;
I am trying to see that trained personnel are at the
disposal of the Pan American Health Experts under
a properly conducted campaign to eradicate the mos -
quito for all times.


Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Now, if this side of the
House wants to take the Hon. Minister seriously
- of all Ministers, I think we can say in all sin-
cerity that we expect and look forward to the Hon.
Minister being more frank than his Colleagues, and
we have no desire to criticize him as a Minister or
for his readiness to give us information how does
he square his information with the Addendum? It


says "limited success", andhe says "non-existent".
Which is right?

4. MOTTLEY: The Minister does not write the
Addendum. I rise to congratulate him, because Ihap-
pened to be Chairman of the Public Health Department
of 93,000 people and I knewthat was so. I congratulate
him for saying it was non-existent, because I knew
it was so. Up to 1965 it was non-existent, but I do
not: know it could have gone on to 1966, 1967 and this
year.. I know that the work was carriedout; so when
you get idiots getting in here and saying that people
would not co-operate, that is absolutely untrue. When
the Minister says it is non-existent, I canunderstand
the position which he has adopted. He wants to make
assurance doubly sure now. When he says that he is
training these youngsters now to avoid coming back. I
feel that whatever you do you will still have a few
mosquitoes with you.

The question put by the Leaderof the Opposition,
I am not prepared to answer, but I am sure if the Min-
ister had written the Addendum he would not have put
"limited success". It was successful, and I know
about this matter.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: The Addendumwas not ap-
proved by me; I happened to have been in Geneva.

The question that Head 40 Ministry of Health and
Community Development stand part was put and resolved
in the affirmative without division.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to move that this Re-
solution do now pass.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: I beg to second that.
The question was put and resolved in the affirmia-
tive without division.
Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Chairman,Ibegto move
that Your Honour do now report the passing of one
Resolution in Committee of Supply.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: I beg to second that.
The question was put and resolved in the affirma-
tive without division, and Mr. CHAIRMAN reported to Mr.
SPEAKER who resumed the Chair and reported accord-
ingly.
6.15 p.m.
On separate motions of Hon. C. E. TALMA, seconded
by Hon G. G. FERGUSSON, the Resolution was read a
first and second time and agreed to.

THE MENTAL HEALTH (AMeNDMENT) ACT, 1968
Mr. SPEAKER: The next Order of the Day stands
in the name of the hon. junior member for Christ
Church, Minister of Community Development, and
it is to move the second reading of a Bill to amend
the Mental Health Act, 1951.
Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Speaker, as the Objects
and Reasons set out, this Bill seeks to amend the
Mental Health Act, 1951-24 in a few particulars,
and it is done in order to provide that a medical
.officer on the staff of the Mental Hospital should be
one of the medical practitioners to be appointed for









1711


"the purposes of section 6, which deals with various
bodies who will examine suspected cases; and also
to empower the Superintendent of the Mental Hospital
to order the removal of sick persons detained under
the provisions of sections 14 to 20 or under section
54 of the Magistrates' Jurisdiction and Procedure
Act, 1956-57 to another hospital for the purpose of
receiving medical or surgical treatment unavailable
in the Mental Hospital.

The object of this is merely to facilitate the
patients I refer to the second part of the amendment -
of the Mental Hospital who can secure better treat-
ment and better medical aid at the Queen Elizabeth
Hospital, so that if in any such case the Medical
Superintendent is of that opinion, he can transfer a
patient in a quick and expeditious manner from the
Mental Hospital to the Queen Elizabeth Hospital in
the interest of the patient. At present he has not got
the power; there is a lot of red tape, because it has
to go through the Governor-General, and it is very
cumbersome and takes a long time. So the object of
these amendments is to bring the Act up to date and
expedite the procedures, and to vest greater power
in the hands of the Superintendent of the Mental Hos -
pital in order to enable him to perform his functions,
duties and responsibilities more efficiently and effec -
tively.

I beg to move that this Bill be now read a second
time.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: I beg to second that.

The question was put and resolved in the affirma-
tive without division,

Onthemotionof Hon. C. E. TALMA, seconded by
Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON, Mr. SPEAKER left the Chair
and the House went into Committee on the Bill, Mr.
YEARWOOD in the Chair.


Clauses 1 to 3 inclusive were called and passed.

Clause 4 was called It reads as follows:-

4. Section 13 of the principal Act is hereby
amended by repealing the proviso to subsection (3)
and substituting the following -

"Provided that the recommendations shall
not be signed by -
(1) any person who would be prohibitedun-
der section 11 from signing a medical
certificate;
(ii) any registered medical practitioner on
the staff of the Mental Hospital; or
(iii) any member of the Visiting Committee
who is a medical practitioner;

and shall contain a statement that the recommend.-
ing medical practitioners are not so prohibited."

Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Chairman, Ibegto move
that Clause 4 stand part.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: I beg to second that.


Mr. HINDS: Mr. Chairman, I well remember that
there was some concern at one time or other about
establishing a psychiatric wing at the Queen Eliza-
beth Hospital, and when we find that this Bill seeks
to give the Superintendent of the Mental Hospital au-
thority to transfer a patient from the Mental Hos-
pital to the Queen Elizabeth Hospital, I am to wonder
if the real object of this Bill is not to accommodate
not so much the patient, but more so the Medical
Superintendent. In other words, there are patients who
might be admitted to the Mental Hospital and it might
be learnt that there is much more to be gained finan-
cially by having the patient transferred to the Queen
Elizabeth Hospital. I wonder if this Bill as it now stands
is not intended to give the Medical Superintendent an
opportunity to practise at the Queen Elizabeth Hos -
pital, because the Medical Superintendent, as I
understand it, is entitled to practise at i:he Queen Eli-
zabeth Hospital, and that may be the object of having
this psychiatric wing established there. You might
find that this is not a case of accommodating the pa-
tient and getting him out quicker, but it mightbe a
case where this Bill is being used for the Superin-
tendent to transfer patient quicker from the Mental
Hospital to treat him at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital
where there is a Specialist fee attached. That is what
we are concerning ourselves with, and not as the
Minister tells us, to give him authority where pre-
viously there was a lot of red tape. If it is a case of
having to go through this red tape but not for the bene -
fit of the patient and getting him cured any more
quickly, we are not concerned with that aspect of it
at all. Let the red tape remain. We are not here to
merely accommodate any medical practitioner or any
other man to make money quickly out of the sick
people in this community. We are willing to accept
that in modern medicine, the tendency is to have
psychiatric wings attached to the main Hospitals,
but we want to be made doubly sure, Mr. Chairman.
6.25 p.m.

I am sure that the Minister will jump to his feet
and give us the assurance that it is not a case where
we are making it easier for the Superintendentof the
Mental Hospital in otherwords, here is a case
where the Superintendent at the Mental Hospital can
write a discharge certificate or a transfer certificate
and by the time that you are transferred from down
there, the doctors up there are ready to receive you
at the Ward at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital and the
fee which a doctor cannot charge you at the Mental
Hospital, he can charge you ten times that fee at the
Queen Elizabeth Hosptial for his Specialist services.
We just want to be assured that that is not the case.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Chairman, in the first
place nothing which the hon. member says is likely
to happen, but the hon. member was speaking on the
wrong Clause as I see it. We have got as far as Clause
4 and the object of Clause 4 is to repeal the proviso
to Sub-section 3 and to substitute the following there-
for: The proviso to Sub-section 3 as contained in the
1952 42 Act, lam just trying to be accurate. We
are going Clause by Clause, are we not? We are now
doing Clause 4 and the motion is to repeal the proviso
to Sub-section 3 and substitute the following: And the
proviso occurs in 1952-42 Act. The proviso is :-









1712


"Provided that the recommendations shall not.
be signed by any person who would be prohibited
under section eleven of this Act from signing a
medical certificate or by any member of the
Visiting Committee who is a medical practitioner
and shall contain a statement that the recom-
mending medical practitioners are not so pro-
hibited."

We are substituting for that proviso what is set
out here in the Bill. What is set out in ihe bill is
this:-

"Provided that the recommendations shall not
be signed by -

(1) any person who would be prohibited under
section 11 from signing a medical certificate;

(ii) any registered medical practitioner on the
the staff of the Mental Hospital; or

(iii) any member of the Visiting Committee who
is a medical practitioner;
and shall contain a statement that the recommen-
ding medical practitioners are not so pro-
hibited."

Answering the hon. member's point directly,
I just want to draw that to his attention. What we
are doing is amending the 1952-42 Act in which the
proviso is mentioned. This Mental Health Act has
been amended by the 1952 Act; so that this is the third
amendment. The first Act was the Mental Health Act
of 1951 and the second is the amendment to the 1952-
42 Act which we are now considering. Speaking
generally for the benefit of the hon. member, in the
next Clause, I think that we are adding an additional
Clause. As to the Superintendent of the Mental Hospi-
tal, I will explain that at present he has to get the
consent and authority from the Governor-General,
but under this amendment he will have the necessary
power. I said that just now. He will be able to transfer
a patient to the Queen Elizabeth Hospital on his own
accord provided that he thinks fit. That is the object
of the amendment and he will assign the patient to a
medical practitioner at the Queen Elizabeth Hos-
pital who will be in charge of thatpatient while that
patient is at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital until he or
she is sent back to the Mental Hospital.

As to this question of the Superintendent of the
Mental Hospital being able to practise and all of that,
if he is allowed to practise, then he is allowed to
practise. Is there anything wrong with that? He has
not got to go to the Queen Elizabeth Hospital to prac -
tise; he can practise at his home. If he is allowed to
practise, if that is one of the terms and conditions of
his service, it is one of the terms and conditions of
his service whether he goes to the Queen Elizabeth
Hospital or to his home or to the Mental Hospital
which would be the proper place for him to practise.
That is beside the point. Whatwe are doing here is to
assist the inmates who need medical or surgical
treatment which can better be given at the Queen
Elizabeth Hospital. We have to do that, and the hon.


member talks about the Superintendent of the Mental
Hospital getting fees and all of that, and I do not un-
derstand this sort of loose talk. The Superintendent
of the Mental Hospital is already entitled to practise
and what is the talk about doing something to put
more money in his pocket? How can you arrive at
that?

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Chairman, I should just like to
enquire of the Minister if he is telling us now that a
patient transferred from the Mental Hospital is not
going to receive mental care while at the Queen
Elizabeth Hospital. Let the hon. member just answer
that one question.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Chairman, I have ex-
plained that if there is a mental patient who needs
medical or surgical treatment which can better be
given at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital, he will be sent
there for that treatment and then he will be returned,
He will be assigned to a special doctor, but he will
continue to be followed up; he will not be abandoned,
I do not know what question the hon. member is ask-
ing me, really.

Mr. HINDS: My question to the Minister is this:
Is the Minister telling us now that a patient trans -
ferred from the Mental Hospital to the Queen Eliza-
beth Hospital will not and cannot receive mental
nursing care while he is at the Queen Elizabeth Hos-
pital?

Hon. C. E. TALMA: He will continue to get all
the mental nursing care. He will continue to get all
the care including surgical and medical additional
care. This is an improvement; this is not a backward
step. (A sides). We are willing to change the system of
nursing. There will be nurses at the Queen Elizabeth
Hospital who will be sent to the Mental Hospital for
mental training, and who will be able to continue giv-
ing the necessary treatment and vice versa.
The question that Clause 4 stand part of the Bill
was put and resolved in the affirmative without division.
6.35 p.m.

Clause 5 was called.
Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to move that Clause
5 stand part.
Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: I beg to second that.
The question was put and resolved in the affirma-
tive without division.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to move that Your
Honour do now report the passing of one Bill in
Committee.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: I beg to second that.

The question was put and resolved in the affirma-
tive without division and Mr. CHAIRMAN reported to
Mr. SPEAKER who resumed the Chair and reported accord-
ingly.

On separate motionsof Hon. C. E. TALMA, seconded
by Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS the Bill was read a third
time, and passed.









1713


Mr. SPEAKER: The next Order of the day stands
in the name of the Hon. Leader of the House, but I
am afraid that we are unable to proceed with this
Bill in view of the fact that a Committee of this House
and the Other Place have been appointed to meet, and
we have not yet reported in fact we have not yet
met. So we now proceed to Order No. 4 on the Order
Paper which stands in the name of the Hon. Minister
of Communications and Works, the hon. junior mem-
ber for St. Thomas, and it is to move the second
reading of a Bill to amend the Cable and Wireless
(West Indies) Limited Act, 1939.

BILL TO AMEND THE CABLE AND WIRELESS
(WEST INDIES) LIMITED ACT, 1939

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, Sir there are
two sections of the Cable and Wireless Act that will
be repealed. Be it enacted by the Queen's Most
Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent
of the Senate and House of Assembly of Barbados
and by the authority of the same as follows:-

1. This Act may be citedas the Cable and Wire-
less (West Indies) Limited (Amendment) Act, 1968.

2. Section 5 of the Cable and Wireless (West
Indies) Limited Act, 1939, hereinafter referred to as
the principal Act, is hereby repealed andthe follow-
ing section substituted therefore -

5. All telecommunications equipment imported
for the working of the telegraphs shall be exempt from
import, duties."

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, is the hon.
member suggesting that we cannot read?

Mr. SPEAKER: I have not heard that said nor
implied. I think that the Minister was speaking ex
abundant cautela.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, Iwas trying
to point out for the benefit of members on both sides
who did not read the Bill; if that is the feeling I would
just move that the Bill be read a second time.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: I beg to second that.

The question was put and resolved in the affirma-
tive without division.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, Ibegto move
that you do now leave the Chair and the House go into
Committee on the Bill.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: I beg to second that.

The question was put and resolved in the affirma-
tive without division and Mr. SPEAKER left the Chair and
the House went into Committee on theBillMr. YEARWOOD
in the Chair.

Clauses 1 to 4 inclusive were called and agreed to.
On separate motions of Hon. N. W. BOXILL,seconded
by Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS, the CHAIRMAN reported


the passing of the Bill in Committee, and Mr. SPEAKER
resumed the Chair and reported accordingly.

On separate motlonsof Hon. N. W. BOXILL, seconded
by Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS, the Bill was read a third
time and passed.

BILL TO AMEND BARBADOS HARBOURS
ACT, 1960.
Mr. SPEAKER: The next Order of the day stands
in the name of the Hon. Minister of Commuincations
and Works and it is to move the second reading of a
Bill to amend the Barbados Harbours Act, 1960.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, it has been
said that members on the other side can read. This
Bill has been circulated and I beg to move that it be
read a second time.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: I beg to second that.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, I do not
know if the explanation in the Objects and Reasons
will agree with what the Minister will say. Will he
explain the objects a little more?
6.45 p.m.

Mr. SPEAKER: If no other member than the Hon.
Leader of the Opposition, who has just spoken, wish-
es to speak on the Second Reading, then the Hon.
Minister may reply and exercise hip final right.

Hin. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, this Bill
arises out of a most anomalous situation. What has
happened is that the Port Manager discovered that
there is in the tariff book at the Port -- (An Hon.
Member: We cannot hear you. ). lam sorry. (Asides.)

Mr. SPEAKER: If any hon. member is address-
ing the Chair, will he please stand.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: I am asking you to agree
to amend the proviso to section 49 of the Barbados
Harbours Act, 1960-29 to provide that the period
of limitation for the recovery of an overcharge or
an undercharge under the section shall run from the
date of the acceptance of the goods or the rendering
of the services, as the case may be, in respect of
which the rates of charges were overcharged or
undercharged. This situation arose as a result of
something taking place with, I think, the firm of
Gardiner Austin, and then the Port Manager dis-
covered that the law provided for one way, but it
did not provide for the other way. It was not clear to
the Crown Law Officers whether it was for.goods or
for services, and it was a bit ambiguous. That is why
we are now asking that it be clarified once and for
all. I now beg to move that the Bill --

Mr. SPEAKER: The motion has already been
made.

The question was put and resolved in the affirmative
without division.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, Ibegto move
that Your Honour do now leave the Chair and
the House go into Committee on this Bill.









1714


Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: I beg to second that.

The question was put and resolved in the affirmative
without division, and Mr. SPEAKER left the Chair and the
House went into Committee, Mr. YEARWOOD in the Chair.


Clause 1 was called and passed.

Clause 2 was called.


Hon. N. W. BOXILL: I beg to move that Clause
2 stand part of the Bill.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: I beg to second that.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: What seems strange is
that this Act was passed in 1960; it is 8 years now
since it was passed without anyone discovering any-
thing wrong with it during that period. I understood
the Minister to say that itprovidedforonly one thing
and not the other, and I understood him to mean that
it provided for an overcharge and not an undercharge;
but when you look at the section of the Act it does not.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: I was misinterpreted, and
I will read an extract from my file for the benefit
of the hon. member. It states:

"While discussing a claim for a refund from
Messrs. Gardiner Austin for a refund of harbour
dues with someone from the Attorney General's
Chambers, it has been observed that the wording
of section 49 of the Barbados Harbours Act,
1960-29 would appear to be in need of amend-
ment. As you will note, this section makes pro-
vision for the collection of undercharges, but
provides that there will be a limitation of six
months. It would appear that, as presently word-
ed, the limitation of six months refers only to
goods and not the services, and it would seem
desirable that this provision should also be ex-
tended to harbour charges."
that is the reason for the amendment, Sir.

The question was put and resolved in the affirma-
tive without division.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Chairman, I beg to
move that Your Honour do now report the passing
of one Bill in Committee.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: I beg to second that.
The question was put and resolved in the affirmative
without division, and Mr. CHAIRMAN reported to Mr. SPEAKER
who resumed the Chair and reported accordingly.

On separate motions of Hon. N. W. BOXILL, seconded
by Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS, the Bill was read a third time and
passed.
GOVERNMENT NOTICE

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, this concludes
Government Business for today's sitting. I am asking
the leave of the House to give notice of a Resolution,
which I could not give notice of earlier today because
a copy was not available.


Mr. SPEAKER: The Hon. Leader of the House is
seeking the leave of the House to give notice of a Re-
solution which he could not earlier have given notice
of, and, in the absence of any objection, leave will be
granted to the Hon. Member. There being no objection,
leave is granted to the Hon. Leader of the House to
give notice of the Resolution which he has just men-
tioned.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker,Ishouldlike to
thank the House. On behalf of the Hon. and Learned
Prime Minister, Minister of Finance and Minister
of External Affairs, I beg to give notice of a Resolu-
tion to place the sum of $11,710 at the disposal of
the Government to supplement the Estimates 1968 -
69 Part 11 Capital, as shown in the Supplementary
Estimates 1968-69 No. 7 which form the Schedule
to the Resolution.

I also give notice of my intention to move the
House into Committee of Supply at its next meeting
to deal with this Resolution of which notice has just
been given.

Mr. Speaker, before the House rises, Iwonder if
it would be in order Ibelieve the other side of the
House is aware of this for the House to record the
passing of a Resolution of Condolence arising out of
the assassination of Senator Robert Kennedy?

Mr. SPEAKER: I do not rule it to be out of order.
Let the Hon. Leader of the House proceed.
6.55 p.m.

RESOLUTION RE DEATH OF SENATOR
ROBERT F. KENNEDY

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move
the passing of the following Resolution.

"BE IT RESOLVED that this House place on re-
cord its sense of deep shock and extreme abhorrence
at the assassination of Senator Robert F. Kennedy,
a candidate for the Presidency of the United States
of America;

AND BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that a copy
of this Resolution be forwarded to the President of
the United States of America and to the sorrowing
widow and relatives of the late Senator."

Mr. Speaker, much has been said expressingthe
shock and horror of this very tragic event, and I am
sure that the House, as of course everybody else in
this Island and everybody else in the whole wide
world are still benumbed by this traumatic experience.
But as I am always saying, Mr. Speaker, on these
occasions, these shocks are first and most felt by
the bereaved family, because every loss is first of
all aloss to parents, or children, or wives or hus-
bands, and I am sure that we need not, indeed, we
cannot add at all to all that has already been said,
but we can express our profound and unutterable
sense of shock at this tragic assassination.
It seems strange, Mr. Speaker, that in a world
in which we are trying courageously to make things









1715


better as times goes by, we are still thrown back
into the primeval and uncivilised atmosphere of set-
tling or trying to settle political differences through
violence. This must be abhorred by all of us who
believe in the democratic process and of freedom of
discussion, and freedom of association, and I therefore
think that the people of the United States deserve the
sympathy of the rest of us, because as I have said
elsewhere, I think that they are trying the majority
of them to better the conditions of life in that coun-
try, and to wipe out the causes of those circumstances
which lead and have led to such tragic shocks in the
past.

Senator Kennedy was by every standard a most
distinguished and most enlightened American, and his
country first will feel his loss, and-with the country
the rest of the world. I am sure he was regarded
everywhere as a citizen of the world, and, like his
brother, had made his name and his ideas felt and
understood far beyond the confines of his country.
So what is in effect an American tragedy is also
a world tragedy, and it is fitting, Ithink, Mr. Speaker,
that this House should express its deep sense of shock
and extend its sympathy to Mrs. Kennedy and to the
President and people of the United States.

I beg to move that this Resolution do now pass.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, I beg to
second that Resolution. Nothing that any of us can
say now can add to the feeling of revulsion and shock,
as the Hon. Leader of the House has said, that the
whole world or most of the whole world who believe
in democracy have already said and written. I should
like, however, to repeat what I have said almost
privately, one may say, to some members of the
Press, who were asking the opinion of some of us.
Occasions like these should warn us that even in the
most seemingly civilised countries, the minute we
depart from playing the game in a democratic way,
playing the game in our private lives, in our pro-
fessional lives and in our political lives we sow
the seed that sooner or later here and there in some
country or other produces results of this sort. In
short, to begin by disliking your opponents because
they differ from you in politics, to continue by
abusing them at every opportunity, to stir up strife
in crowds in public, inevitably lead to a disregard
for law and order. Not everybody might have the
French temperament or the Arab will to explosion,
and therefore not everybody will be lawless and beat
up policemen or their opponents or shoot people with
whose political views they disagree; but all human
beings are after all the same, white, or black, Jew
or Gentile, East or West; andwe ina community that
seems quite peaceful have got to take the lessons
that occasions of this sort offer us and be on our
guard, less wittingly or unwittingly we start off the
small spark that eventually ends in violent explosion.

The assassination of Senator Kennedy is a lesson
for us in Barbados as much as it is a lesson for
countries less peaceful than we are, and I think it is
fitting that while we deplore and truly deplore no
matter what our nationality, that such a tragic thing


should have happened, we must say to ourselves that
it might also happen here.

Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Speaker, it is less thanfive
years ago that we in this House have had the unfor-
tunate duty to move the passing of a Resolution
on the death of the very distinguished, not only man
of America, but Leader of the world, President John
F. Kennedy, and more recently on the death of the
Rev. Martin Luther King and now Senator Robert F.
Kennedy. These three men have shown to the world
that they were interested in the underprivileged and
the poor not only of the Americas, but of the world,
and it is unfortunate that they should have been des-
troyed by assassination at such an early age.

We in Barbados, like the people in other civi-
lised countries, feel that this was a shock, and we do
hope that what we say here today will be able to
soften the blow to Mrs. Kennedy and the entire family
of Senator Kennedy. I have read on severaloccasions
what was said of Senator Kennedy, how ruthless he
was in pursuing the cause of justice, but I do not think
that any person can be too ruthless in pursuing the
cause of justice, fairplay and righteousness, because
it has often been said that you cannot keep truth
sullied and down forever.

Mr. Speaker, I join with the other Speakers, in
associating myself with the remarks in passing this
Resolution in respect of the untimely death of Sena-
tor Kennedy of the United States. I do not want to
say what has so often been said, that something is
wrong and that America is a sick community. It
looks to me that now that the Latin American
countries are becoming more civilised, a country
like America is now becoming less civilised.

Mr. SPEAKER: I beg to associate myself with
the tributes paid by all three speakers inthis House
to the memory of a very great American. I feel as
deeply as they have expressed the loss to civi-
lisation and to humanity by the assassination of Robert,
brother of the former President of the United States.
I associate myself with the passing of this Address
which I invite hon. members to signify their con-
currence in in the customary manner of this
ancient Chamber by standing with bowed heads for
two minutes in their places.

Members stood in their places and bowed heads for two
minutes.

7.05 p.m.


Mr. SPEAKER: In viewof the unanimous passing
of this Address, I shall direct the Clerks at the Table
with the minimum of delay to ensure that this Address
is transmitted to the proper quarter, which I take to
be via the United States Ambassador to this nation,
who would be requested to convey the Address to
the President of the United States, and also to the
sorrowing widow and relatives whom I would inter-
pret to be the parents and the brother. To the Clerks
at the Table, let that be done not later than to-
morrow morning.









1716


THE ADJOURNMENT

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I think that
Your Honour will be announcing the suspension of
the sitting at this time, but we have come to the end
of our business. I wonder if it would be in order for
me to move the adjournment of the House so as to
save us from coming back in at a quarter to eight.
We are in the middle of .. (Asides). Mr. Speaker, I
beg to move that this House do now adjourn until
Tuesday next, 25th June, 1968 at 12 o' clock (noon).

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, it does not
arise now as you will see, but I should just like to
remind the Hon. Leader of the House that I understood
him to have promised that in future we will fix the
Order Paper at the time of the adjournment of the
House. It does not matter this afternoon, but I just
want to remind the Hon. Leader of the House of that
now for the future.

Mr. SPEAKER: Government Business.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, under Govern-
ment Business, Committee of Supply will be Order
No. 1 and everything else will follow seriatim

Mr. SPEAKER: Private Members' Business.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, Iwas say-
ing that it does not matter this afternoon, but I do not
mean the routine fixing; I mean the order in which
each item comes, what you take first, second and
third, under Government Business and under Pri-
vate Members' Business. Under Government Busi-
ness, Mental Health, Cable and Wireless, whatever
it is in the order one, two and three.

Mr. SPEAKER: Government Business is reques-
ted to be as it is now. Private Members' Business.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, I said to
the Hon. Leader of the House that we can get together
as to fixing the Order Paper as regards the items to
be taken. As to the hon. junior member for the City,
for instance, I asked him if he would like his Order
to be dealt with first and he said "No." Doing it in
that way, the Government fixes its Orders and we
fix our Orders and that is announced when we are
adjourning. That is only the old practice.


Mr. SPEAKER: Well, we have not yet adjourned
and the moment is now appropriate for Private
Members to fix their business.



Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Yes, Sir, but I said that
we are not doing it this afternoon. I was reminding
the Hon. Leader of the House that in future we will
do it in that way, that Private Members will get up
and say : "We want so-and-so first, so-and-so
second," and so on. We have been doing that for
years and years and it has been stopped.




Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I should just
like to make my position clear. I have indicated how
I want Government Business to run. Isaidthat Com-
mittee of Supply is to be Order No. 1 and everything
else is to follow seriatim.. I therefore do not wish to
be associated with the point which has been made by
the Hon. Leader of the Opposition. As I understand
it, it is for them to fix their own Order Papers. As
I further understand it, the hon. senior member for
St. Joseph's matter is Order No. 1 and I do not know
how the Hon. Leader of the Opposition could be asking
the hon. junior member for the City if he wants his
matter to be made Order No. 1. I just want to dis-
sociate myself from that, because I do not wish this
side of the House to be blamed next week if the hon.
senior member for St. Joseph finds that his Order
has given place to another.



Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Speaker, Ihavebeen inthis
House for a long time and it has been the custom all
the time when the House is to be adjourned, for Pri-
vate Members to ask thatOrderNo. 6 be placed as
Order No. 1 or Order No. 8 to be placed as Order
No. 1 or Order No. 3 to be placed as Order No. 1.
What is all this fuss about now? This has always been
decided between Private Members.



The question that this House do now adjourn until Tues-
day next, 25th June, 1968, at 12 o'clock (noon), was put and
resolved in the affirmative without division and Mr. SPEAKER
adjourned the House accordingly.


7.15 p.m.







Supplement to Official Gazette dated 3rd April, 1969.


BARBADOS










I assent,
A. WINSTON SCOTT,
Governor-General.
28th March, 1969.

1969-16

An Act to grant a sum of money out of the Con-
solidated Fund and to appropriate the same for the
service of the Island for the year ending on 31st March,
1970.
(1st April, 1969). Commencement.
BE IT ENACTED by the Queen's Most Excellent
Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the
Senate and House of Assembly of Barbados, and by
the authority of the same as follows:-
1. This Act may be cited as th ration Short title.
-Act, 1969. I '\
2. The Accountant Genera p on the w t Grant of
of the Minister or some person ihrised by t,1vjMi $42,515,524
ter in writing, issue out of ( ConsoW lad un


*kL

_^I^L ____









APPROPRIATION ACT, 1969-16


Appropriation
Schedule.



Manner of
appropriation
in certain cases.


and apply towards making good the supply granted
for the service of the year ending on 31st March, 1970
a sum not exceeding in the aggregate forty-two million
five hundred and fifteen thousand, five hundred and
twenty-four dollars.

3. The sum granted by section 2 is hereby appro-
priated for the services and purposes set out in the
Schedule pursuant to and in accordance with section
109(1) of the Constitution and shall be deemed to have
been so appropriated from 1st April, 1969.

4. The sum of one hundred and twenty dollars
granted under the Item "Bonus and Pensions" con-
tained under the Head "Pensions" shall be allocated
in payment of additions to pensions in the manner
following:


(1) on all pensions granted prior to 31st March,
1931, not exceeding two hundred and forty dollars, at
the rate of twenty per centum;

(2) on all pensions granted prior to 31st March,
1931, exceeding two hundred and forty dollars
and not exceeding four hundred and eighty dollars,
at the rate of ten per centum.

Date on which 5. The sum granted by this Act shall be deemed
grant takes effect to have been granted on 1st April, 1969.








APPROPRIATION ACT, 1969-16 3


Read three times and passed the House of Assem-
bly this twenty-fourth day of March, one thousand
nine hundred and sixty-nine.


THEODORE BRANCKER
Speaker.

Read three times and passed the Senate this
twenty-seventh day of March one thousand nine
hundred and sixty-nine.



E. S. ROBINSON
President.








4 APPROPRIATION ACT, 1969-16


SCHEDULE (Section 3)
ABSTRACT OF THE APPROPRIATION GRANTS

Appropriated
SERVICE
for 1969-70

Governor-General .. .. 38,972
Service Commissions .. .. 614,728
Parliament .. .. .. 91,572
Auditor General .. .. 10,636
Judiciary .. .. .. 64,563
Legal .. .. .. 10,984
Registration .. .. 55,936
Crown Solicitor .. .. 9,092
Ministry of Finance .. .. 1,206,585
Valuation Division .. .. 95,900
Accountant General .. .. 76,401
Pensions .. .. .. 736,567
Customs .. .. .. 101,537
Inland Revenue .. .. 19,796
Statistical Service .. .. 71,005
Office of the Prime Minister .. 295,381
Training Division .. .. 162,471
Economic Planning Unit .. 671,106
Barbados Regiment .. .. 107,346
Civil Aviation .. .. 387,254
Establishments Division .. 316,400









APPROPRIATION ACT, 1969-16


SCHEDULE Continued .

ABSTRACT OF APPROPRIATION OF GRANTS


SERVICE Appropriated
for 1969-70

$
Public Relations .. .. 16,282
Ministry of External Affairs .. 2,506,674
Ministry of Home Affairs .. .. 243,324
Lands and Surveys .. .. 54,879
Police .. .. .. 669,931
Fire Service .. .. .. 97,413
Town and Country Planning .. 11,431
Prisons .. .. .. 88,070
Meteorology .. .. 187,971
Printing Office .. .. .. 135,530
Ministry of Agriculture, Labour
and National Insurance .. 1,119,653
Labour .. .. .. 554,306
National Insurance .. .. 27,322
Ministry of Communications and Works 5,329,650
Waterworks .. .. .. 2,227,346
Lighthouses .. .. .. 50,550
Electrical Inspection .. .. 38,782
Ministry of Education .. .. 1,939,085
Erdiston College .. .. 50,052
Technical Institute .. 104,482









APPROPRIATION ACT. 1969-16


SCHEDULE Continued

ABSTRACT OF APPROPRIATION OF GRANTS


SERVICE


Housecraft Centre
Schools
Industrial Schools
Public Library
Archives
Ecclesiastical ..
Ministry of Health
Lazaretto
Local Government
Queen Elizabeth-Hospital
Mental Hospital
Housing
Public Assistance and Old Age
Pensions
Ministry of Trade, Tourism,
Co-operatives and Fisheries
Post Offide .. ..


Appropriated
for 1969-70


$
15,281
6,716,186
65,002
102,491
6,314
3,960
1,128,998
23,656
3,217
3,374,381
628,111
80,000


1,851,295


1,117,851
940,889


36,654,597


I








APPROPRIATION ACT, 1969-16


SCHEDULE Concluded

ABSTRACT OF THE APPROPRIATION OF GRANTS

SERVICE Appropriated
for 1969-70

$
CAP I TAL

Agriculture .. .. .. 1,359,240
Communications and Works .. 2,045,222
Ministry of Health .. .. 455,500
Education .. .. .. 1,157,943
Home Affairs .. .. .. 485,250
Office of the Prime Minister
Development and Industry 100.000
Seawell Airport .. 168,384
Regiment .. .. 2,500
Ministry of Trade .. .. 86,888

5,860,927




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