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Group Title: Official gazette, Barbados
Title: The official gazette
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Permanent Link: http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00076861/00069
 Material Information
Title: The official gazette
Physical Description: v. : ill. ; 33-42 cm.
Language: English
Creator: Barbados
Publisher: s.n.
Place of Publication: BridgetownBarbados Published by authority
 Subjects
Subject: Law -- Periodicals -- Barbados   ( lcsh )
Politics and government -- Periodicals -- Barbados   ( lcsh )
Genre: periodical   ( marcgt )
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General Note: Caption title.
General Note: Supplements issued for some of the numbers.
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Bibliographic ID: UF00076861
Volume ID: VID00069
Source Institution: University of Florida
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oclc - 12594829
notis - AFC6434

Table of Contents
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        Page 121
        Page 122
        Page 123
        Page 124
        Page 125
        Page 126
        Page 127
        Page 128
        Page 129
        Page 130
        Page 131
        Page 132
        Page 133
        Page 134
        Page 135
        Page 136
    Supplement: House of assembly debates for 28th May, 1968
        Page A 1664
        Page A 1665
        Page A 1666
        Page A 1667
        Page A 1668
        Page A 1669
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Full Text












VOL. CIV


*JJidaI


Sminate


PUBLISHED BY AUTHORITY


BRIDGETOWN, BARBADOS, 10TH FEBRUARY, 1969


TABLE OF CONTENTS
Gazette Notices
Acting Appointment:
A. S. Inniss, Senior Assistant Secretary as
Hospital Director ..................................... 122
Application for Liquor Licence at District 'A':
Thomas R. Noonan; Allan Campbell Cozier ....... 123
Appointments to post of Junior Laboratory Techni-
cian as from 1/1/69 .................................. 122
Assignments:
W. A. Davis as Magistrate of Dists. 'A' & 'B' .. 121
Appointments on Promotion:
St. Clair Clarke to be Chief Fire Officer........ 121
A. S. Inniss, Manager, Agricultural Credit Bank
to be Senior Assistant Secretary .............. 121
Appointment: E. E. Ward to be Manager, Government
Savings Bank ........................................... 121
Executorials:
Louise Kirton; James Lisle Nurse;
Ulric Belfield Reid ............................. 125, 123, 122
Expiration of Tour of Duty:
His Excellency Mr. Muni Lal, High Commis-
sioner of India......... ............................ 122
In the matter of: Wright Trust Company Limited... 124
Wright Trust Company Ltd. (In voluntary
Liquidation) ......................................... 124
Notice re accounts in Barbados Savings Bank not
having had any transactions for over ten (10)
years .................... ......................... 130-135
Patent:"Freeze Dried Coffees Process and Product" 136
"Improvements in and relating to Elec-
trical Cables" ...... ....................... 136
Provost Marshal re land at Mount Pleasant Gardens,
St. Philip ............................................. 124
Resignation: Miss Pauline Sarjeant, Staff Nurse,
Q.E.H........ ....................................... 122
Trade Marks: "Coats", "Camel", "Gelbe Sorte" etc. 125-129
House of Assembly Debates for 28th May, 1968


NOTICE NO. 129


GOVERNMENT NOTICES

Assignments

W. A. Davis has been assigned as Magis-
trate, District "B", with effect from 15th
February, 1969.


W. A. Davis has been assigned to Dis-
trict "A" in conjunction with his assignment
as Magistrate, District "B", with effect from
15th February, 1969.


Appointment

E. E. Ward, Assistant Accountant
General has been appointed to the post of
Manager, Government Savings Bank, with ef-
fect from 1st February, 1969.

(M.P. 4992)

Appointment on Promotion

A. S. Inniss, Manager, Agricultural
Credit Bank, has been appointed to the post
of Senior Assistant Secretary, with effect'
from 1st January, 1969.

(M.P. 1515/39/7/8)


3ZR9


NO. 12








OFFCIA GAET Ferur 1, 196


GOVERNMENT NOTICES Cont'd.

Appointment on Promotion

St.Clair Clarke, Deputy Chief Fire Of-
ficer to be Chief Fire Officer with effect from
17th February, 1969.


(M.P. 6496)


Appointments


The following persons have been ap-
pointed to the posts of, Junior Laboratory
Technician, Queen Elizabeth Hospital, with ef-
fect from 1st January, 1969:-

Mrs. Marcia E. Miller
Miss D. Alleyne
Mr. S. Thomas
(M.P. 3913/3)


Acting Appointment
A. S. Inniss, Senior Assistant Secretary,
has been appointed to act as Hospital Director
with effect from 1st January, 1969 until fur-
ther notice.

(M.P 1515/39/7/8)


Resignation

Miss Pauline Sarjeant,;Staff Nurse, Men-
tal Hospital, to resign from the Public Ser-
vice with effect from 28th February, 1969.

(M.P. P. 5901)


Expiration of Tour of Duty

HIGH COMMISSIONER OF INDIA

His Excellency Mr. Muni Lal, High Com-
missioner of India to Barbados, departed
from Port-of-Spain, Trinidad, on 24th Jan-
uary, 1969, at the expiration of his normal
tour of duty.


(M.P. EX-C.4)


-. /I


February 10, 1969


OFFICIAL GAZETTE


NOTICE NO. 130

NOTICE

Re the Estate of


ULRIC BELFIELD REID

Deceased

Notice is hereby giv'en that all creditors
and other persons having any claims or de-
mands against the estate', of, Ulric Blelf-e4d.
Reid late of Long Gap in the fprisbf;~nt
Michael in this Island of Barbados School
Teacher deceased who died on the 29th day of
December 1967 ard of whose estate Letters
of Administration were granted by the
Supreme Court of Judicature of this Island on
the llth day of July 1968 to Iro Oriente Reid
the widow of the said deceased are hereby re-
quired to send particulars in writing of their
claims or demands to the said Iro Oriente
C/o W. O. O. Haynes of No 12 High Street
Bridgetown, Solicitor on or before the 15th
day of April 1969 at the undermentioned ad-
dress after which date the said Iro Oriente
Reid will proceed to distribute the assets of
the said Ulric Belfield Reid deceased amongst
the parties entitled thereto having regard to
the claims and demands of which she shall
then have had notice and the said Iro Oriente
Reid will not be liable for the assets of the
said Ulric Belfield Reid deceased or any part
thereof so distributed to any person or per-
sons of whose claim or demands she shall
not then have had notice.

And all persons indebted to the estate are
requested to settle their indebtedness with-
out delay.
Dated this 27th day of January 1969.
W. O. O. HAYNES
Solicitors,
No. 12 High Street,
Bridgetown.








F OFII G


NOTICE NO. 131

LIQUOR LICENCE NOTICE

(Act 1957-40)


APPLICANT:
ADDRESS:
PREMISES:


THOMAS R. NOONAN
Bay Street
Wall building situated at
Bay Street, known as
Holiday Inn.


Dated this 21st day of January 1969.

Signed: T. R. NOONAN
Applicant.
This Applicationfor a Hotel Licence will
be considered at a Licensing Court to be held
at Magistrates'Courts Dist." A" on Thursday
13th day of February 1969 at 9 o'clock a.m.


GEORGE COLLYMORE
Clerk to Licensing Authority.

NOTICE NO. 132

LIQUOR LICENCE NOTICE

(Act 1957-40).


APPLICANT:


OCCUPATION:
ADDRESS:


PREMISES:


ALLAN CAMPBELL
COZIER
Manager
#10 Sheraton Park,
Christ Church
Open air dancing with
seating for approxi-
mately four hundred
persons with covered


band stand and
covered bar and kitchen
situated at Bay Street
known as
Pandora's Hide-away.

Dated this 21st day of January 1969.

Signed: ALLAN C. COZIER
Applicant.


This Application for a Restaurant Li-
cence will be considered at a Licensing Court
to be held at Magistrates' Courts Dist. "A"
on Thursday the 13th day of January 1969 at
9 o'clock a.m.

GEORGE COLLYMORE
Clerk to Licensing Authority.

NOTICE NO. 5 (second publication)

NOTICE

Re the estate of

JAMES LISLE NURSE

Deceased

NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that all per-
sons having any debt or claim upon or affect-
ing the estate of James Lisle Nurse late of
Pilgrim Road, 'Christ Church in this Island,
who died in this Island on the 7th day of De-
cember 1967, are hereby required to send
particulars of their claims duly attested to
the undersigned in care of Yearwood & Boyce,
14 James Street, Bridgetown, on or before
the 20th day of February 1969 after which
date I shall proceed to distribute the assets
among the persons entitled thereto having re-
gard only to the debts and claims of which I
shall then have had notice and that I shall not
be liable for the assets distributed to any
person of whose debt or claim I shall not have
had notice at the time of such distribution,
and all persons indebted to the said estate are
requested to settle their accounts without de-
lay.

Dated the 17th day of December, 1968.

IRIS CLAUDINE NURSE
Administratrix of the Estate of
James Lisle Nurse,
deceased.


February 10, 1969


OFFICIAL GAZETTE








OFFCIA GAZTT Ferar 0,16


NOTICE NO. 133


The Companies Act, 1910

In the matter of

WRIGHT TRUST COMPANY LIMITED

NOTICE is hereby given, in accordance
with Section 173 of the Companies Act, 1910,
that Wright Trust Co. Limited by Special
Resolution passed on the 15th January, 1969,
and confirmed on the 31st day of January,
1969, resolved to wind up voluntarily.

NORMAN SIM REID
Liquidator.

NOTICE NO. 134

The Companies Act, 1910

In the matter of

WRIGHT TRUST COMPANY LIMITED

(In Voluntary Liquidation)


NOTICE is hereby given that, pursuant
to Section 176 of the Companies Act, 1910, a
meeting of the creditors of the above named
Company will be held at the Office of Pannell
Fitzpatrick & Company, 402, Plantations
Building, Lower Broad Street, Bridgetown, on
the 15th day of February, 1969, at 10 o'clock
im the morning.

Dated the 1st day of February, 1969.

NORMAN SIM REID
Liquidator
Wright Trust Company Limited.


NOTICE NO. 135

PUBLIC OFFICIAL UNRESERVED SALE


The Provost Marshal's Act 1904 (1904-6)
Sec. 50


On Friday the llth day of April, 1969 at
2.00 o'clock a.m. will be set up for sale by
the Acting Chief Marshal at the Registration
Office, Law Courts, Coleridge Street, Bridge-
town, by PUBLIC COMPETITION WITHOUT
RESERVE.

All that certain piece or parcel of land
(part of a larger area of 771,129 square feet
known as Mount Pleasant Gardens Building
Estate Section 2) situate in the parish of Saint
Philip containing 32,308 square feet and being
the lot numbered 145 on the Second Key Plan
section 2, abutting and bounding on the lots
numbered 146, 148,150, and 152 shown onthe
second Key Plan section 2 on lands of Francis
Donald Barnes and Norman Goodlet Daysh,
on the lot numbered 144 on the said plan or
however else the same may abut and bound
attached from Augustin Fernandez Yepez
and Hilda de Fernandez Yepez, Owners.

Any persons claiming any estates, rights,
titles, interests, liens or incumbrances af-
fecting the above described parcel of land
should bring in their claims before the date
of sale.

Dated this 31st day of January, 1969.

L. L. DURANT
Cheif Marshal Acting.


OFFICIAL GAZETTE


February 10, 1969








February 10, 1969 OFFICIAL GAZETTE 125


NOTICE NO. 3 (second publication)

NOTICE


Re Estate of


LOUISE KIRTON


Deceased

NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that all per-
sons having any debt or claim upon or affect-
ing the estate of Louise Kirton late of 1st
Avenue, Pine Plantation Road, Saint Michael
in this Island, who died in this Island on the
19th day of January 1967, are hereby re-
quired to send particulars of their claims
duly attested to the undersigned in care of
Yearwood & Boyce, 14 James Street, Bridge-
town, on or before the 20th day of February
1969 after which date I shall proceed to dis-
tribute the assets among the persons entitled
thereto having regard only to the debts and
claims of which I shall then have had notice
and that I shall not be liable for the assets
distributed to any person of whose debt or
claim I shall not have had notice at the time
of such distribution, and all persons indebted
to the said estate are requested to settle their
accounts without delay.



Dated the 17th day of December, 1968.


DORIS IONE LINTON
Executrix of the estate of
Louise Kirton,
deceased.


NOTICE NO. 121 (second publication)

TAKE NOTICE


That Super Poultry Farms Limited, a
Company incorporated under the Companies
Act, 1910, of this Island whose trade or busi-
ness address is Seaton, Black Rock in the
parish of Saint Michael, has applied for the
registration of a trade mark in Part "A" of
Register in respect of Poultry, and will be
entitled to register the same after one month
from the 6th day of February 1969 unless
some person shall in the meantime give no-
tice in duplicate to me at my office of opposi-
tion of such registration. The trade mark can
be seen on application at my office. "The
applicant disclaim any right to the exclusive
use of the word "Chick." The trade mark is
to be limited to the colours red, white and
blue appearing on the mark."

Dated this 23rd day of January 1969.

G. A. A. MAYNARD
Registrar of Trade Marks (Ag.)


February 10, 1969


OFFICIAL GAZETTE


125








OF I E 19


NOTICE NO. 109 (second publication)

TAKE NOTICE

vv :n


0 0
OC~~ur


That J & P. Coats, Limited, a British
Company, whose trade or business address, is
Ferguslie Thread Works, Paisley, Scotland,
has applied for the registration of trade
mark in Part "A" of Register in respect of
yarns and threads of all kinds, and will be
entitled to register the same after one month
from the 6th day of February 1969 unless
some person shall in the meantime give no-
tice in duplicate to me at my office of opposi-
tion of such registration. The trade mark can
be seen on application at my office. "The
Applicants disclaim any exclusive right to the
use of the device of cotton reels appearing as
part of the above mark apart from the mark
as a whole."

Dated this 23rd day of January 1969.

G. A. A. MAYNARD
Registrar of Trade Marks(Ag.)


NOTICE NO. 110 (second publication)

TAKE NOTICE






That Anciens Establissements Jalla, a
Societe a responsabilite Limitee organised
under the laws of France, whose trade or
business address is 21 rue Poissonniere,
Paris, 2eme, France has applied for the re-


gistration of a trade mark in Part "A' of
Register in respect of Tissues (piece goods);
bed and table covers, towels, face towels, bath
towels, bath sheets, bath-gloves, bath mats,
bibs, bathing wraps, bathing wear, beach-
jackets, beach suits, dressing gowns, and will
be entitled to register the same after one
month from the 6th day of February 1969 un-
less some person shall in the meantime give
notice in duplicate to me at my office of op-
position of such registration. The trade mark
can be seen on application at my office.

Dated this 23rd day of January 1969.

G. A. A. MAYNARD
t
Registrar of Trade Marks. (Ag.)




NOTICE NO. 111 (second publication)

TAKE NOTICE


That J. & P. Coats Limited, a British
Company, of Ferguslie ThreadWorks, Paisley
Scotland, has applied for the registration of a
trade mark in Part "A" of Register in re-
spect of yarns and threads of all. kinds, and
will be entitled to register the same after one
month from the 6th day of February 1969 un-
less some person shall in the meantime give
notice in duplicate to me at my office of op-
positionof such registration. The trade mark
can be seen on application at my office.

Dated this 23rd day of January 1969

G. A. A. MAYNARD
Registrar of Trade Marks (Ag.)


February, 10,, 1969 .


OFFICIAL GAZETTE







Febrary 0, 169 OFICIL GAETT


NOTICE NO. 112 (second publication)

TAKE NOTICE

BENSON & HEDGES VOGUE

That Benson & Hedges Limited, a Com-
pany organised under the laws of the United
Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern
Ireland whose trade or business address is
13, Old Bond Street, London, England, has ap-
plied for the registration of a trade mark in
Part "A" of Register in respect of tobacco
manufactured and unmanufactured and will be
entitled to register the same after one month
from the 6th day of February 1969 unless
some person shall in the meantime give no-
tice in duplicate to me at my office of oppo-
sition of such registration. The trade mark
can be seen on application at my office.

Dated this 23rd day of January 1969.

G. A. A. MAYNARD
Registrar of Trade Marks (Ag.)


NOTICE NO. 113 (second publication)

TAKE NOTICE




,5e'r 5nukiane



That Super Poultry Farms Limited, a
Company incorporated under the Companies
Act 1910, of this Island whose trade or busi-
ness address is Seaton, Black Rock in the
parish of Saint Michael has applied for the
registration of a trade mark in Part "A" of
Register in respect of Poultry, and will be


entitled to register the same after one month
from the 6th day of February 1969 unless
some person shall in the meantime give no-
tice in duplicate to me at my office of opposi-
tion of such registration. The trade mark can
be seen on application at my office.

Dated this 23rd day of January 1969.
G. A. A. MAYNARD
Registrar of Trade Marks (Ag.)


NOTICE NO. 114 (second publication)

TAKE NOTICE


That Philip Morris Incorporated, a cor-
poration organised and existing under the laws
of the State of Virginia, United States of
America, whose trade or business address is
100 Park Avenue, New York 17, New York,
United States of America has applied for the
registration of a trade mark in Part "A" of
Register in respect of chewing gum and con-
fectionery products, and will be entitled to
register the same after one month from the
the 6th day of February 1969 unless some
person shall in the meantime give notice in
duplicate to me at my office of opposition of
such registration. The trade mark can be
be seen on application at my office.

Dated this 23rd day of January 1969.

G. A. A. MAYNARD
Registrar of Trade Marks (Ag.)


February 10, 1969


OFFICIAL GAZETTE


EL 1.








OFICA GAET Feray1,16


NOTICE NO. 115 (second publication)

TAKE NOTICE


That SOCIETY ANONYME JUBILE,
MANUFACTURE DE TABACS, Manufacture
de Tabacs; a Company organised under the
Laws of Belgium, whose trade or business
address is 67-75, Rue des Champs, Liege,
Belgium, has applied for the registration of
a trade mark in Part "A' of Register in re-
spect of Tobacco, tobacco products, cigars,
Whiffs, cigarettes and cut tobacco, and will
be entitled to register the same after one
monthfrom the 6th day of February 1969 un-
less some person shall in the meantime give
notice in duplicate to me at my office of op-
position of such registration. The trade mark
can be seen on application at my office.

Dated this 23rd day of January 1969.

G. A. A. MAYNARD
Registrar of Trade Marks (Ag.)


NOTICE NO. 116 (second publication)

TAKE NOTICE

RAINBOW


That BOWATER-SCOTT CORPORATION
LIMITED, Manufacturers, a British Company,
whose trade or business address is Bowater
House, Knightsbridge, London, S.W., England;
has applied for the registration of a trade
mark in Part "A" of Register in respect of


Paper and paper articles including paper
facial tissues, andwill be entitled to register
the same after one month from the 6th day of
February 1969 unless some person shall in
the meantime give notice in duplicate to me
at my office of opposition of such registra-
tion. The trade mark can be seen on applica-
tion at my office.

Dated this 23rd day of January 1969.

G. A. A. MAYNARD
Registrar of Trade Marks (Ag.)



NOTICE NO. 117 (second publication)

TAKE NOTICE


That Toyo Rayon Co., Ltd. a corporation
organised under the laws of Japan whose
trade or business address is No. 2, 2-chome,
Nihonbashi-Muromachi, Chuo-Ku, Tokyo,
Japan trading as Manufacturers and Mer-
chants has applied for the registration of a
trade mark in Part "A" of Register in re-
spect of Textile piece goods and will be en-
titled to register the same after one month.
from the 6th day of February 1969 unless
some person shall in the meantime give no-
tice in duplicate to me at my office of oppo-
sition. of s- ', registration. The trade mark
can be seen on application at my office.


Dated this 23rd day of January 1969.


G. A. A. MAYNARD
Registrar of Trade Marks (Ag.)


OFFICIAL GAZETTE


February 10, 1969








February 10, 1969 OFFICIAL GAZETTE


NOTICE NO. 118 (second publication)


TAKE NOTICE

GELBE SORTE

That Reemtsma Cigarettenfabriken
G.m.b.H., a German Industrial Corporation
Limited, whose trade or business address is
Parkstrasse 51, Hamburg-Grossflottbek,
Germany, Industralists, has applied for the
registration of a trade mark in Part "A" of
register in respect of tobaccos, cigars, and
cigarettes, snuffs and articles for smokers
and will be entitled to register the same af-
ter one month from the 6th day of February
1969 unless some person shall in the mean-
time give notice in duplicate to me at my of-
fice of opposition of such registration. The
trade mark can be seen on application at my
office.

Dated this 23rd day of January 1969.
G. A. A. MAYNARD
Registrar of Trade Marks (Ag.)


NOTICE NO. 119 (second publication)
TAKE NOTICE

TROPIC ICE


That
LIMITED,


ELIZABETH OF SWEDEN
Manufacturers, a Limited liability


Company organised under the Laws of
Jamaica, whose trade or business address is
42, Constant Road, Kingston, 10 Jamaica, has
applied for the registration of a trade mark
in Part "A" of Register in respect of Per-
fumes, non-medicated toilet preparations,
cosmetic preparations, dentifrices, depila-
tory preparation, toilet articles, sachets for
use in waving the hair, shampoos, soaps, and


essential oils, and will be entitled to register
the same after one month from the 6th day of
February 1969 unless some person shall in
the meantime give notice in duplicate to me
at, my office of opposition of such registra-
tion. The trade mark can be seen on applica-
tion at my office.

Dated this 23rd day of January 1969.

G. A. A. MAYNARD
Registrar of Trade Marks (Ag.)


NOTICE NO. 120 (second publication)

TAKE NOTICE

SHERATON

That SHERATON CORPORATION OF
AMERICA, (a Corporation organised under
the Laws of the State of Delaware, United
States of America), whose trade or business
address is 470 Atlantic Avenue, Boston,
Massachusetts, United States of America, has
applied for the registration of a trade mark
in Part "A" of Register in respect of Cutlery,
forks and spoons, printed matter, newspapers
and periodicals, stationery, books and photo-
graphs, small domestic utensils and contain-
ers, combs, brushes, materials for cleaning
purposes, glassware, porcelain and earthen-
ware, bed and table covers and textile arti-
cles and will be entitled to register the same
after one month from the 6th day of February
1969 unless some person shall in the mean-
time give notice in duplicate to me at my of-
fice of opposition of such registration. The
trade mark can be seen on application at my
office.

Dated this 23rd day of January 1969.

G. A. A. MAYNARD
Registrar of Trade Marks (Ag.)


February 10, 1969


OFFICIAL GAZETTE








OFFICIAL GAZETTE February 10, 1969


NOTICE


The following accounts in the Barbados Savings Bank not having had any transactions
for over ten (10) years, notice is hereby given that unless claims are established on or
before the 30th April, 1969 these accounts will be dealt with as required by Section 22 of
the Savings Bank Act 1914 (1914-3).


Old No. New No. Account $ r


ATWELL
ALLEYNE


BRADSHAW


BAIRD
BYNOE
BRATHWAITE


BOWEN

BYNOE
BEST


Matilda
Livingstone tr. FitzRoy Alleyne

Margaret E. tr. Estate of
Elizabeth F. Williams

Arthur Winston (Dec'd.)
Irene tr. Rupert Bynoe
Goulbourn Archibald tr. Helena
Mc.Intosh
Edward tr. Ralph Bowen

Joyce Beryl
Clayton tr. Ernestine Chase


647
2310

3286



8461
8797


9678

10581
10640



667


5473



6384






9003

9475


1961


a3249
3467
3668


4117

4601
4637

a6961
7350
a8116
8148
a8227


8599
8855
a9204
a9635
10177

10587

a11065
al1077


a12036


67.76
21.27


1,434.06

18.69
16.89

97.84
18.53

41.65
22.77

11.74
21.87
6.74
6.86

164.04
109.83
11.88
18.64
7.67

355.56
145,68

24.64


10.14
6.69


BRYAN (Estate of Keith Henderson (Dec'd.)
CONNELL William H. H.
COLLYMORE Evans
COX Kenneth Wilson
BATSON Kathleen Arnetta tr. John Roger
Batson
CHASE Gladys Irene
COLLYMORE Arthur tr. Lottie Collymore
BRATHWAITE Keith Orlando
CUMBERBATCH Doreen lanthe tr. Ursula Newton
ESTATE OF CYRIL WILLIAM CLARKE (Dec'd.) tr.
Granville Clarke
CULPEPPER Duffuin Acosta tr. Pearl Banfield

EVELYN Cecil DaCosta
EDWARDS Marjorie Elaine tr. Alban
DeVere Edwards


DAVIS Cecil'Hilary


- -- --


OFFICIAL GAZETTE


February 10, 1969








February 10, 1969 OFFICIAL GAZETTE


NOTICE Cantd


Old No. New No. Account $ A


ELLIS Walter
ESTATE OF GEORGE B. EVELYN (Dec'd.) or/-
H. Y. R. Leach
EVERGREEN CLUB Per. H. B. DeC. Jordan and
S. G. P. Beckles
FENTY Hugh R.


474
778


1571


18

2252




























6342





7182
7619

8627


12125
12173


12514


12923

13420

a14572
14971


151,76
a16474

17620

17912
17986
18084
18125
18153
18361


18443
18614

a30784
31565
a31878


31905
32065
32378
33240


34034

a34105


ARTHUR Nellie tr. Adonald Arthur
BOYCE Enid Agnes tr. Doris Payne
BRIGGS Ella Elise (Dec'd.)
COLLYMORE Prince tr. Charles Collymore
CHASE Athelbert tr. Darnley Chase
BRITISH AND FOREIGN BIBLE SOCIETY Per.
Secretary and Treasurer
ALLEYNE Olga Arita tr. William Alleyne
CLARKE FitzGerald tr. Norma Clarke


HOLDER
GRANT
GRAHAM


HINKSON
GIBBONS
GODDING

GOODMAN


ESTATE OF

HINKSON


Nathaniel
Irene tr. Basil V. Grant
Mercedes Sylvia tr. Pearl
Allendale Fenty
Edric Ethelbert tr. Miriam Lewis
Clyde Pearson
Aletha
Sewell tr. Stephen DeLisle
Goodman
EUGENE HOAD (Dec:d.) tr. Lolita Hoad
Ida tr. Erskine C. A. Hinkson


8.00


540.88


98.76
8.23

8.16

12.10


136.86
32.48
20.31

8.54

8.24
167.61
35.37
144.52
96.30


63.32
33.35
805.88

17.37
7.88


67.40
11.25

14.03
14.29


40.55

1,127.06
6.53


FREEMAN

BULLPEN
ESTWICK


BEST
AUSTIN

BELGRAVE


Beresford tr. Rosa Gibson

Prince William tr. James Bullen
Nigel tr. Elridge Trotman and
Eilene Estwick
Oliver St.Clair tr. Letitia Best
Samuel O'Neal

John Douglas Tr. Fitz Belgrave


February 10, 1969


OFFICIAL GAZETTE










NOTICE Cnitd


Old No. New No. Account $ e


MURRELL


Robert Samuel


GOODING Arsley Arlington tr. Dorcas
Gooding
ESTATE OF EDWARD HARDING (Dec'd.)
HENDY Maude tr. Louise Kirton

HAYNES Josephine tr. Millicent Nurse
LOVELL Nathaniel tr. Orvin Lovell
JONES Ernest L.
ESTATE OF REBECCA JACOBS (Dec'd.)
JORDAN Keith Leroy tr. Dorothy Lynwood
Jordan


a34451
a34520


34606
34904

36866
a37231
37461
37496
37654


38240

a38452

39099


a39212
39404



a39834
a39890


a40015
40450
40610

41147


41371


Gerald Cameron


ESTATE OF MABEL DECOURCEY MACRAE (Dec'd.)


6058
6651




1017
1234
1840







1932



2340









3510
3735

2307


3273


H. B. King and/or G. H. King trs.
Stephanie A. Bayles
Lenora Editha tr. Martin Jones
MIGNON KNIGHT (Dec'd.) tr.
Jennifer Stephanie Knight


Joseph Nathaniel tr. Vivian V..Hoyt<
Yvonne Loreen Erla tr. Byron
L. Greendige
FitzGerald st.Clair
Norman tr. Nellie Legall
Oscar tr. Ruby Holder


MC.CLEAN ESTATE OF CHAS BENJAMIN (Dec'd.)
tr. E. Smith
MAYNARD William Pemberton


.1. ______ ______


JORDAN


KING


MOORE
ESTATE OF META



HOYTE
GREENIDGE


LOVELL
LEGAL
LEACOCK


February 10, 1969


OFFICIAL GAZETTE


6.61


17.37
197.53
68.81

7.18
9.29
18.11
9.58


7.15

31.95

8.52


11.79
41.56


131.95

20.47


9.24
81.79

9.77
14.91



1,970.04

17.76









February 10, 1969 OFFICIAL GAZETTE


NOTICE Cont'd


Old No. New No. Account $


5557




































968



1618
45

114
1213


42425



a42771


44036

a44049
a44240
44477
a44839
45100

45304


a45327


a47007

47743
47759
48018


48240

48249
a60105
60144
a60321


60507

60659
60664
60983


Amy
Barton H. V. tr. Mary E. Outram
Vivian


MANNING



HURLEY


GOODING

LAYNE
GAY
MOORE
KING
MORRIS

JORDAN


LEWIS


GITTENS

MASCOLL
MASSIAH
HEADLEY


________________ I. ___________________


Vera Elise or/- Joseph A.
Roberts tr. Peter Geoffrey
Manning
Ercil Carlotta tr. Christopher
Hurley

Edwin tr. Irene Gooding

Coleridge Holberton
Mervin Cuthbert tr. Eileen Gay
Anthony
Keura Andoline tr. Sylvia Rogers
Keith Lawrence

Dorothy Lynwood tr. Keith Leroy
Jordan
Fitz Herbert tr. Richard Fitz G.
Wooding

Iris Melvina

Frederick DaCosta tr. Eileen Mascoll
James Olton tr. EldicaMassiah
Timothy tr. Estate ofH. C. Holmes
(Dec'd.)


29.65



13.27

16.19
671.57
44.35
9.00
13.50
17.58


8.63


10.58

103.64

11.98
7.88

267.98
6.50
87.14
9.35
48.20


46.91
6.61
7.24
195.76
7.14


MC.CONNEY Monica Stuart
MILLER Leslie Oliver tr. Hilda Miller
ROCHESTER Albert

NICHOLAS-ROBINSON Eileen Margaret
RICHMOND OLD SCHOLARS' ASSOCIATION Per
Treasurer and Secretary
NILES Kenneth Seymour


OLTON
OUTRAM

PHOENEX


February 10, .1969


OFFICIAL GAZETTE








OFFCIA GAET eray1,16


NOTICE Cat'd


Old No. New No. Account $


3697 61825 PILGRIM Elise Isalie 10.22
4731 62585 PRESCOTT Marjorie Dorothy tr. Prince
Prescott 1,532.89
1160 62841 RAWLINS Reginald tr. Edmund Rawlins 11.95
1636 62936 REGISTRAR IN CHANCERY tr. Evangeline M.
Williams 2,014.90

7518 66125 STOUTE Cyril E. (jnr.) 69.84
7522 66129 STOUTE Seon McD. tr. Annette Stoute 14.48
8242 66554 SPRINGER Beatrice tr. Daphne Kellman 1,407.76
a66615 TAYLOR Clyde Emerson 6.55
67026 SCOTT Elise tr. Lewis Wharton 8.36
9483 67465 LOYAL PARADISE-NEEDY FUND per. Louis Sebro,
Christie Hunte and J. K. Hunte 11.14
9644 67604 SEALE Vincent Leroy 324.50

a68707 SPRINGER Eleatha Jane tr. Frederick Pilgrim 15.06
3348 69151 THOMAS Frederica tr. Adalin Joseph 22.97

3584 69350 THOMPSON Samuel Carson tr. Eudora
Thompson 7.52

3776 69527 THOMPSON Synthyche Christine or/- James
I. Thompson 1,188.80


a69919 SARGEANT Louis tr. Wilfred Sandiford 41.45
3849 70181 WEATHERHEAD Patrick Basil C. and Eileen
Weatherhead 6.68

a70993 ESTATE OF ISADORA ALICIA PEARSON (Dec'd.) 158.39
5738 71089 WALKE Benjamin Fit H. tr. Grenville
O. Browne 62.52

a71323 TUDOR Jean Norma tr. Carlington
Lorenzo Tudor 25.39

a71362 WILLIAMS Winifred tr. Evelyn Cyrus 9.81


February 10, 1969


OFFICIAL GAZETTE








February 10, 1969 OFFICIAL GAZET17E


NOTICE Concluded


Old No. New No. Account $


7527 72369 WILLETT Nathaniel tr. Gilbert Brathwaite 68.65
a72812 SINCKLER Ernest Wilfred tr. Edith Cox and
Vesta Waldron 28.25
73411 WARD Edward Louis 11.92
74576 NURSE Herbert 302.86
a74614 TUDOR Theodore Alonza tr. Kathleen
Tudor 8.47
74789 THOMAS Maria tr. Lillian Pierre 16.96
76103 VAUGHAN Hilton Augustus or/- Thelma
Joseph Vaughan trs. for
Thelma Joy Doreen Vaughan 8.23
76315 ROBERTS Keith tr. Keith Jordan 27.00
76438 WELCH Simeon Ezikiel tr. Agnes Welch 102.67

76738 PROVISION MERCHANTS' ASSOCIATION 1,820.79
76878 STUART Vernon St. Clair 6.49

77041 ROBINSON Joseph Nathaniel tr. Iris Alleyne 380.76
77052 WARD Alma Valeri tr. Sylvia Sargeant 15.75
77071 ST. MARY'S PARENT-TEACHERS' ASSOCIATION 13.88
77808 SAVOURY Denis Leander tr. Odessa Savoury 6.51
77871 PARRIS Evangeline tr. Winifield Parris 16.43
77996 SOMMERSET CRICKET CLUB Per. Secretary,
Treasurer and President 41.38


C. B. LONG
Manager, (Ag.)
Barbados Savings Bank,
27th January, 1969.


February 10, 1969


OFFICIAL GAZETTE








OFIILGZTEFeray1,16


NOTICE NO. 91 (third publication)
PUBLIC NOTICE

(PatentsAct, 1903-7, Sec. 10)

NOTICE is hereby given that STRUC-
TURES SCIENTIFIC AND INTERNATIONAL
CORPORATION of 630 Fifth Avenue, New
York City, New York, in the United:States of
America lodged in this Office an application
and Complete specification for a patent un-
der the -Patent Act 1903 (1903-7), for an in-
vention for* "FREEZE DRIED COFFEES
PROCESS AND PRODUCT."

The said Specfication has been accepted
and is open to public inspection at this Office.

G. A. A. MAYNARD
Registrar (Ag.)


NOTICE NO. 96 (third publication)


PUBLIC NOTICE

(Patents Act, 1903-7, Sec. 10)

NOTICE is hereby given that LINDSAY
ERCELL RYEBURN- GILL of No. 17 High
Street, Bridgetown, Barbados lodged in this
Office an application 'and Complete specifica-
tion for a patent under the Patent Act 1903
(1903-7), for an invention for "IMPROVE-
MENTS IN AND RELATING TO ELECTRI-
CAL CABLES."

The said Specification has been accepted
and is open to public inspection at this Office.

G. A. A. MAYNARD
Registrar (Ag.)


Government Printing Office.


4a

t A


February 10, 1969


OFFICIAL GAZETTE


,* ,











THE


House of Assembly Debates




(OFFICIAL REPORT)


SECOND SESSION OF 1966 71


HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY

Tuesday, 28th May, 1968
Pursuant to the adjournment, the House of As-
sembly met at 2.30 o'clock today.

PRESENT

His Honour J. E. T. BRANCKER, Q.C., F.Z.S.,
(Speaker); Mr. L. E. SMITH, J.P.; Hon. E.W. BARROW,
B.Sc., L.L.D. (Hon), (Prime Minister); Mr. J. B. CORBIN;
Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON, (Minister of Trade, Tourism, Co-
operatives and Fisheries); Mr. R. StC. WEEKES, J.P.; Mr.
W. R. LOWE; Hon. N. W. BOXILL, (Minister of Communica-
tions and Works); Mr. J. B. YEARWOOD, (Chairman of
Committees); Sir G. H. ADAMS, C.M.G., Q.C., B.A., D.C.L.
(Hon., (Leader of the Opposition); His Honour G. E.
SARGEANT, (Deputy Speaker); Mr. C. A. E. HOPPIN, J.P.;
and Mr. L. S. CRAIG.

Prayers were read.

Messrs HINDS, LYNCH and MOTTLEY entered the
House and took their seats.

MINUTES
Mr. SPEAKER: I have the honour to inform the
House that I am Informed that the Minutes of the
meeting of Friday 8th March, 1968 have been duly
circulated, and if there is no objection, they will be
confirmed. Hearing no objection, I declare these
Minutes duly confirmed.

PAPERS LAID

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, I am com-
manded to lay the following:-

Statement showing net customs and excise re-
ceipts for one month ended 30th April, 1968.

The Customs Duties (Wood Preservatives for use
in the treatment of lumber) Order, 1968.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker, I am
commanded to lay the Ninth Annual Report of the
Barbados Tourist Board for the year 1966-67.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, Iam comman-
ded to lay the following:-
The Tenth Report of the Transport Board for the
year ended 30th September, 1965.


The Barbados Harbours (Amendment) Regula-
tions, 1968.

GOVERNMENT NOTICES


Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, lbegto give
notice of a Resolution to place the sum $124,000 at
Estimates 1968-69, Part I -Current, as shown in the
Supplementary Estimates 1968-69 No. 3 which form
the Schedule to the Resolution.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, I beg to give
notice of the following:-

A Bill to amend the Cable and Wireless (West
Indies) Limited Act, 1939.

A Bill to amend the Barbados lHarbours Act,
1960.

Mr. Speaker, I also beg to give notice that Oral
Replies to Parliamentary Question No. 42 asked by
the hon. senior member for St. Thomas and Question
No. 156 asked by the hon. senior member for St. James
are now ready.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, Ibegto give
notice that Parliamentary Replies to Question No. 143
asked by the hon. senior member for St. Thomas, to
Question No. 145 asked by the same member and to
Question No. 157 asked by the hon. junior member
for St. Peter are now ready.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, Ibeg to give
notice that it is my intention to move the House into
Committee of Supply at its next meeting to deal with
the Resolution for $124,000 of which notice has been
given earlier today.


PRIVATE MEMBERS' BUSINESS


Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, I beg to give notice of
the following Resolution:-

BE IT RESOLVED that this House requests the
Government to review the Regulations relative to the
National Insurance & Social Security Act, for the
purposes of protecting those workers who were








1565


qualified at the qualifying period by paying up the
required amount, and since then have been disquali-
fied through no fault of their own.

AND BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that this
House is of the opinion that such people who have
been disqualified through no fault of their own, should
not lose those amounts of money already paid up;
neither should they be called up to work in any form
without enjoying some measure of Social Security.

QUESTIONS

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the
appropriate Minister: -

Is Government aware that residents of Bosco-
belle in the parishes of St. Peter and St. Andrew and
Mount, St. Peter and St. Andrew, receive an intermit-
tent supply of pipe-borne water of less than three
hours in a period of a twelve-hour day?

2. Will Government take steps to remedy this
state of affairs?

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the
appropriate Minister: -

1. Is Government aware that residents at
mid-Benn Hill, in the Parish of St. Peter are denied
the opportunity of having Government pipe-borne
water service installed at their homes?

2. If the answer to the above is in the affirm-
ative, will Government take the necessary steps to
provide this much-needed service to those residents
in this area who have for many years been signifying
their intention of paying for such a service.

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the
appropriate Minister: -

1. How many accidents involving vehicles,
persons, and other than vehicles and persons, have
been reported to the Police Authorities as having
occurred at the four-cross roads junction known as
Eagle Hall Corner in the parish of St. Michael since
the installation of traffic lights there?

2. How many such accidents have been sore-
ported as occurring in the corresponding period pre-
vious to the installation of the said lights?

3. How many of the accidents occurring in
each period involved two or more persons, and two
or more vehicles in one and the same accident?

4. How many persons suffered injury in each
corresponding period?

5. Is the Minister aware that the point of in-
tersection of the highways converging at this corner
does not afford a sufficient area for driving around
same without endangering the safety of vehicles and
persons not turning right or left, as the case may be?


6. If the answer to No. 5 above is in the affirm-
ative, will Government take steps to make travelling
at this junction safer for the general public?
2.55 p.m.

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the
appropriate Minister:-

Is it the intention of Government to furnish bed-
steads and mattresses to members of the Royal
Barbados Police Force to be used in place of the
wooden-framed and canvas cots?

2. If the answer to the above is inthe affirm-
ative, when does Government intend to implement the
plan?

3. Is Government aware that the knowledge
that members of the Fire Services have been furn-
ished with bedsteads is giving cause for uneasiness
amongst some members of the Royal Barbados Police
Force?

Mr. HINDS: To enquire of the appropriate Minis-
ter:-

Is Government aware that a female was admitted
to Ward B2 of the Queen Elizabeth Hospital around
2 a.m. on 15th May, 1968, was hospitalized for ap-
proximately 14 hours and then discharged?

2. Is Government aware that the said female
gave birth to a baby less than 3 hours after she was
discharged from Hospital?

3. Will the Government state if this female
was discharged because of overcrowding or because
she was a patient who had received pre-natal care
at Enmore Health Centre, or what other reason, if
any?

4. If she was discharged because of over-
crowding in the ward what steps Government propose
taking to relieve such overcrowding in the future?

5. Have instructions been given that "Enmore
Patients" be not admitted to Ward B2 without prior
reference to the Gynaecologist?

6. If the anser to No. 5 is in the affirmative,
does not strict observance of such instructions en-
danger the lives of patients and un-born babies as
well?

Mr. HINDS: To enquire of the appropriate
Minister:-

To what extent, if any, are the facilities of Her
Majesty's Customs at Barbados exploited by business
firms or individuals in

(a) Over-invoicing of commodities;

(b) transferring of commodities through Cus -
toms from a parent company in one coun-







1666


try to a subsidiary one in Barbados or
vice versa at an invoiced price which is
not the true market value, with a view to
evading taxation on profits, in one country
or another or for any other reason?

2. Would Government set out recruiting a
staff of valuation experts to be attached to Customs
whose prime duty it will be to stamp out any illegal
practices such as are referred to above, or any other
illegal acts designed to defraud Customs or Revenue
Departments in this or any other territory?

Mr. SMITH: To enquire of the Minister of Com-
munications and Works:-

1. Is the Minister aware that the water supply
in the parish of St. Joseph is inadequate?

2. Is the Minister also aware that the police-
men at District "F" Police Station, and the people
living near the station, are very hard pressed for
water?

3. Can the Minister say what is being done
to improve the water service in St. Joseph?

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the
Minister of Communications and Works:-

1. Has the Minister's attention been drawn to
the large number of people in St. Joseph who are still
living on the brink of a disaster through the unsound
foundation of the land on which they are now living?

2. Is the Minister aware that these people can-
not get suitable spots to which to remove?

3. Can the Minister offer these people any
kind of assistance before the rainy seasonarrives in
full?

4. Can the Minister state the reason for not
buying Lammr.ngs Pasture, or any other suitable site
in St. Joseph, for resetting such people with homes
on unsound foundation?

Mr. YEARWOOD: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of
the Minister of Communications and Works:-

Is the Minister aware that the piles supporting
the jetty at Consett Bay, St. John, are in an advanced
state of erosion and constitute a hazard to users of
the said jetty?

2. Will the Minister take Immediate steps to
have the jetty repaired and this hazard removed?

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the
Minister of Commanications and Works:-

How many casual employees have been employed
by the Public Works Department between April, 1966
and March, 1968?
2. How many casual employees are employed
by the Public Works Department at the present date?


3. If there is a drop in the amount of casual
employees employed, will the Minister give the rea-
son why?

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the
appropriate Minister:-

Will the Minister improve the street lighting
along the following districts in the parish of St.
James: -

Holders Hill, Thorpes, Halls Village, and Hoytes
Village?

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the
appropriate Minister:-

Will the Minister state Government's policy with
respect to operation of the Scotland Factory, St.
Andrew?

Mr. SPEAKER: I am informed that with respect
to Question No. 156 standing in the name of the hon.
senior member for St. James, the answer has been
laid. It is on page 8, right hand corner. I am sorry,
there are more notices to be called.

BILLS -- FIRST READING

On motion of Hon. N. W. Boxill, seconded by Hon.
G. G. Fergusson, the Bill to amend the Cable and Wire-
less (West Indies) Limited Act, 1939 was read a first time.
3.05 p.m.

On motion of Hon. N. W. Boxill, seconded by Hon.
G. G. Fergusson, a Bill to amend the Harbours Act, 1960,
was read a first time.

QUESTION TIME

Mr. SPEAKER: It is now Question Time andas I
mentioned a few minutes ago, the reply has, I under-
stand, been laid to Parliamentary Question No. 156
which stands in the name of the hon. senior member
for St. James.

REPAIRS TO PROSPECT CRUSHER SITE ROAD

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, the Question reads
as follows:-

To enquire of the appropriate Minister:

Is the Minister aware that the road known as
Prospect Tenantry Road (or Prospect Crusher Site
Road) in the parish of Saint James is in dire need of
repair?

2. Will the Minister see to it that the said
road is repaired as quickly as possible?

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, the Reply is
as follows:-

"The Prospect Crusher Site Road is one of the
roads taken over from the Northern District Council







1667


by Central Government and It is proposed to repair
this road in the near future."

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, as a supplementary,
would the Minister be able to say what is his defini-
tion of "in the near future"? Would it be next week,
next month or next year? I am well aware of the fact
that the Minister is not bound to reply. He has made
this very clear before; but if this supplementary
question is bothering him, would the Minister say
whether it is possible to have the road repaired in
19687

Mr. SPEAKER: Question No. 157 stands in the
name of the hon. junior member for St. Peter.

QUESTION RE MEMBER OF THE ROYAL BAR-
BADOS POLICE FORCE BEATING HIS WIFE

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, the question reads as
follows: -

To enquire of the appropriate Minister:-

1. Is the Minister aware of the fact that on
Monday llth March, 1968, a member of the Royal
Barbados Police Force entered on the premises of the
Mental Hospital and administered a beating to his
wife who is a member of the Nursing Staff of the
said Hospital in the presence of other Staff and of
mentally sick patients at the said Hospital?

2. What action does the Minister propose
taking in this matter?

3. Can the Minister say what effect such an
act by a member of the Royal Barbados Police Force
has had on the staff of the said institution as to their
feelings of security and protection from such acts in
the future?

4. What effect has this incident had on patients
and what assurance can the Minister give that there
will be no recurrence?

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, on behalf of
the Hon. Minister of Health, Housing and Community
Development, I beg to give the following reply:-

"1. Yes.

2. None.

3. No.

4. None."

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, I would like to enquire
of the Hon. Prime Minister now that the question
has been asked and answered, whether the Minister
proposes taking any action in a matter of this sort.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: The attention of the hon.
member is drawn, Mr. Speaker, to the last reply to
Questions No. 4.


Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the Prime
Minister could tell us if the appropriate Minister
tried to find out if an incident of this sort had any
effect upon the patients at the institution.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, the Minister
concerned is in the neighboring Commonwealth
country of Puerto Rico. He may be contacted by tele-
phone or by mail.

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the
Prime Minister if he took his injections before he
came in here today.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to askyourpermlssion
to have this matter deferred until the appropriate
Minister returns. It is impossible for me to contact
him by radio or telephone at this moment.

Mr. SPEAKER: I would suggest to the hon. mem-
ber that he might, if he thinks fit, address further
questions on this matter in a substantive way at the
next meeting of the House. In any event it is now after
3.15 p.m. o'clock and Question Time has accordingly
expired.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, on this
point, I thought it was a habit, in the old days at any
rate, if we met after 12 noon to allow the same
amount of time. If we met at 2.30 p.m. there would
be two hours added to Question Time; if we met at
3 p.m. or 4 p.m., you would addthe time to Question
Time.

Mr. SPEAKER: I do not recall ifthatwas ever a
practice, but in any event the Standing Orders may
not be contravened, and they have not for the pur-
poses of this meeting been suspended. May I remind
the Hon. Leader of the Opposition that there is a
Committee now sitting to revise the StandingOrders
and amongst other matters such things are receiving
their consideration. It is no fault of ours that we have
not met during the past few weeks. We have been
awaiting certain documentation from ihe Clerk.

PRIVATE MEMBERS' BUSINESS

Mr. SPEAKER: Order No. 1 under Private Mem-
bers' Business stands in the name of the Hon. Leader
of the Opposition; to resume debate on the passing of
a Resolution re the Financial Statement and Budgetary
Proposals for the Fiscal Year 1967-68,andwhenthis
Debate was adjourned, the hon. senior member for
St. Joseph was addressing the House.
3.15 p.m.

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, we are nowmakingan
effort to reply to the Financial Statement and Bud-
getary Proposals laid since last year. We all know
that legislation in respect of the Financial Statement
and Budgetary Proposals is a very important piece
of legislation to be debated on the floor of this House.
Sir, before I proceed, I did not intend to do much with
these proposals because you can count on them as
being too long ago to be remembered and too stale;







1668


but, Sir, I was wondering here in my seat where we
are heading and where we will end up. The behaviour
not too long ago of one of the Ministers relative to
Replies to Supplementary Questions put forward to a
Minister of the Crown, a Minister who is responsible
for Government Business a Minister sitting in
his seat and refusing bluntly to answer........

Mr. SPEAKER: I will ask the hon. member not
to attempt to deal with that at this stage. We are now
dealing with the reply to the Budgetary Proposals, and
that was a matter in Question Time which is now
finished, so far as this meeting is concerned.

Mr. SMITH:Mr. Speaker, I take it that these
proposals here hinge on everything which we have to
deal with on the floor of this House. That is how I
take it. It is spending money; it is levying on the tax-
payers for more money to pay the Minister and me,
and then I cannot say anything about the actions of the
Minister when he has to be paid by the people of this
country! This Statement is responsible for it; this
levies on things to do what? To raise money and money
to do what? Money to pay the people of this country
and to pay the Minister. I, as a taxpayer even if not
as a legislator, am employing the Minister and then
the master cannot ask the Minister a question? This
is very wide. I understand thatyou wouldlike to keep
things within certain bounds, but this is too wide.
This water is too deep and too blue..

Mr. SPEAKER: Yes, but not so far as dealing
with the conduct of a Minister in respect of business
which is not now under consideration, I admit that
that Budget is wide and it admits of a great latitude
being extended, but it is possible even to go beyond
such bounds.

Mr. SMITH: Sir, I do not think so when it comes
to Budgetary Proposals. We cannot go beyond taxing
the people. We cannot go beyond collecting revenue out
of the people of this country. It is impossible to go
further. That is my opinion, and every one is entitled
to his opinion. But what is the good of the people send-
ing us to represent them and we are trying in our
humble way to do so, and we cannot do it unless we ask
the Minister or the Ministers questions when they are
sitting and refusing to give us replies? This is
stretching things too far. If the Minister is employing
this Government, if he is employing the people of
Barbados, we, on this side, have to see that it is
stopped.

Mr. SPEAKER: I will point out that inasmuch as
our Standing Orders do not provide that the Minister
must answer a question, he need not answer and he
is not breaking any Rule or any Standing Order of
this Chamber; and there is no point in dealing with
that while the Standing Orders remain as they are.
That is the prerogative of the Minister. Will the hon.
member proceed with his comments on the Financial
Statement and Budgetary Proposals?

Mr. SMITH: Any Minister who had the slightest
bit of decency and courtesy about him, when one


asks a question on the floor of this House, out of
sheer courtesy the Minister should make an effort
to reply. A hog grunts when you pass near to it;
(Laughter) and what do you think of human beings?
It is time that we should try and raise the standard
of this House to the height beyond view rather than
try to pull it down and pull ourselves into the gutter.
This is the House of Parliament and the people are
looking up to us for leadership; they are not looking
down to us. Everyone of us has been elected by the
people and the people cast their votes with that under-
standing. These people know more than we; they can
see much further than we can see. We send them
along. What we are saying in here practically meeting
after meeting is a point to the electorate through our
foolishness and narrow-mindedness. Sir, what goes
up is bound to come down. It does not matter how
high it goes up, it must come down. If it is a fact
that the Minister has bought this Government, he can
only buy it for five years and no longer; so let them
do as much as they possibly can, but it will be for
five years. (Mr. CORBIN: Everything is for a time).
(ASIDES) Well, I do not know the meaning of P.M., and
if anybody asks me to do so, Iwill define that expres-
sion.
3.25 p.m.

Sir, now I am hurt. Do you know why I am hurt?
Because I am one of those that the people are looking
upon for guidance, but I cannot do it as long as we do
not get the cooperation of members on the other side
of this hon. Chamber. I have mentioned it. I have
warned that this is not the time for such behaviour;
it is a time for co-operation and work on behalf of
the people. This is the time for it.

Election time is the time to draw swords; but
it seems to me as if some of the hon. members on
the other side are prepared to draw swords always. If
they have a sword, I have one.

Now, Sir, I will begin by quoting a few words by
the Reverend A. J. Smith. Sir, I do not know him. I
do not know if he is an Anglican, Moravian, Roman
Catholic or what. In the Reverend A. J. Smith's ser-
mon on the radio some morning last week, he was
quoting Esau and Jacob and he ended by saying that
cheating is a dirty business; doing something to
fool others is dirty. Those were the remarks coming
from a sermon given by the Reverend A. J. Smith.
I do not know him, but I hope to know him. After all
he is a Smith, and I have never 'met-a foolish or
dishonest Smith yet.

Now, Sir, at the last meeting I was trying to
make a point relative to how this Resolution was
treated in the order in which it appeared on the Order
Paper. Well, Sir, I butted up against some very bril-
liant rulings, some very brilliant speeches even from
the Prime Minister. When a layman finds himself in
a net with a legal man he has got to be very careful.

Sir, I tried to argue last time; but I am going to
make this point now. I would not say to you, Sir, but
it is the Prime Minister I am going to take up. Legal







1669


brains -- I do not know if I have brains. Sir, this is
a Budget speech. I take this to be a Government mea-
sure and it is a Government measure. No back-
bencher or member of the Oppositioncouldfindhim-
self inside here presenting or making a Budget speech
or saying what is to be done for the year.

This is Government Business, and no Leader of
the Opposition or member of the Opposition can bring
a money Resolution on the floor of this House and
expect to get it through without being ruled out of
order. This is Government Business. If the Prime
Minister or either one of the Ministers brings a
Resolution on the floor of this House, wouldwe be in
power, would we be in order to move that it be put
on the Order Paper under Private Members' Business
and reply to it? Would we be so foolish?

It seems to me that no sooner than the Introducer
finishes, we above here have the authority to get up
and tear it to pieces the same time. Suppose it is the
Resolution for all the money in the Treasury, that is
the procedure. Suppose it was for one dollar bill, that
is the procedure, and are you going to tell me now
that after the Hon. Prime Minister completes his
Budget Speech and sits down or leaves the premises,
we must move a Resolution to discuss it under Pri-
vate Members' Business?

Sir, I am saying that it is wrong, too wrong to be
right; and I hope that when I am finished, the Hon.
Prime Minister will get up and throw me down on
this particular point. Now, Sir, under the Rules you
cannot do that. I do not know where it came from,
for the Opposition to move that the discussion should
be under Private Members' Business. It is Govern-
ment Business.

This calls on the people to pay through their
noses and to put their hands in their pockets, and now
we have to wait for whenever the time arrives for
us to reply to these proposals. This is unfair, to us and
to the people of this country, andthe only chance that
we barely got away with was when we started on it.
If we did not start it off, it would have gone off the
Order Paper after three months and the Government
would be getting away with what I would say is
murder.

Sir, I know it is a Standing Order, but the Gov-
ernment was doing everything possible for the time
of three months to expire and no Private Members'
Business is being done.
3.35 p.m.

Now, Sir, I cannot blame you; I cannot blame the
Prime Minister; I have to blame all of us because you
may find the Rule in the Standing Orders. But, Sir, a
member may not make a note of it, or he may not be
studying it. The Government has the numbers, the
authority, the power and everything else in here when
it comes to numbers and votes. The Government
knows that there will be one or two members absent
at the next meeting of this House. What are the
Government doing? They are going to adjourn the
House until these two members come back, or until


they make sure that they have all of their members.
At the same time time is running out on us, and
Resolution after Resolution is being cleared from the
Order Paper.

About two months ago we had a full Order Paper
with Private Members' Business, but how much do
we have today? If the Government wanted to co -operate
with us and they did not have any business for next
Tuesday, then they could ask the members over here
if they want to do Private Members' Business next
Tuesday. But the Government are not doing that; they
are adjourning this Honourable House to suit them-
selves and not the people.

Now, it is strange that, if two or three of their
members are absent, the Government do not want to
carry on. Are they so much afraid of us on this s le
that they cannot allow this House to workwhen some
of their members are absent as well as some of ours?
Is it that they are afraid of us, or afraid of the people?
There must be something wrong. Because they do not
have three members, they want to adjourn the House
to suit themselves. This is the people's business;
this is the people's House. As I have just said, we
can do as we like, but not as long as we like. I like
fairplay to. exist. We should be given a chance to do
our work, because we have made promises to the
people. They have also made promises to the people;
they may not care to carry out their promises, but
we would like to carry out some of our promises.

Mr. Speaker, I am sure that it will be said by
some hon. member on the other side of the Table at
some time to come that the members of the Opposi-
tion are only trying to fool the people; they put things
on the Order Paper; they ask questions, and that is
the end of everything; you will never hear or see
things come to fruition! Sir, it is not fair to us. We
should be given a chance to discuss our business, too.
They have the numbers, and we can only talk. Since
we can only talk, do not muzzle us, but let us talk.
Show your authority and your power by letting us
talk.

Now, Sir, these Budgetary propals have been
here long ago. I think this is about the third time I
will have to point out this matter. It is not fair, and
you will pardon me, Sir, for repeating it. The hon.
Prime Minister had his speech broadcast and re-
broadcast; the hon. senior member for St. Thomas
had his speech broadcast, too, but the hon. senior
member for St. Joseph, as far as broadcasting is
concerned, is being muzzled. I will remain muzzled,
as far as broadcasting is concerned, but not so far
as talking is concerned, because regardless of how
I put my words, my people can understand them. So
long as my people can understand them, that is all
they, my. people, and myself need. I am not going to
use words that will throw me down. I will use words
under which I can stand.

Mr. Speaker, you will remember my quotation
from the Reverend A. J. Smith. I will have to prove
these words, Sir. (ASIDES). It is not I; I have not said
one word; I never had anything written; I was never








1670


the leader of a Party, and I will bever be a leader of
a Party. Iwill have to take the time from leaders, and
I will take the time here and now. Now, Sir, to do
something to fool others is dirty; cheating is dirty
business. Those words came from the pulpit.

With regard to broadcasting, Sir. (ASIDES). I must
talk about it because I have been robbed of my privi-
lege on the floor of this honourable House, as a re-
presentative of the people. Sir, never trouble trouble
until trouble troubles you. I am being robbed. The
apparatus should be in here for me to talk through, but
it is not here. Two hon. members had their speeches
broadcast, but I was not allowed to broadcast mine.
Anyway, I will still do my part.
3.45 p.m.

If the apparatus was here, I would not have to do
so much. Now, Sir, this is part of the policy of the
present Government. Iwill quote from their manifesto
for 1961 relative to broadcasting.

"The Democratic Labour Party believes that
democracy can function properly only when there is
the widest possible dissemination of political infor-
mation and machinery for expression and publication
of different view-points."

When I read this Manifesto and I was not a firm
man, I might have voted against myself inSt. Joseph
and voted in favour of the D.L,P.' candidate on that
occasion; and if I were not a candidate and fighting for
a seat, I might have voted for them. It continues:

"To this end the Partyproposes to setup a Wire-
less Broadcasting Station which the Government will
either own outright or become a major shareholder."

This part was done.

"Broadcasting of debates of the House of Assem -
bly will therefore not have to be secondary to adver-
tising revenue considerations."

I wonder if this part has been done. I hope the
Prime Minister will reply to me on this paragraph if
nothing else.

"The Party will ensure the prompt publication
of the printed debates and the circulation at a cheap
price throughout the Island."

That is the Manifesto of the present Government,
and if they do not want to broadcast all the debates
because it would have taken too much time and if they
did not want to expose certain things, at least they
should try to remember what has been written in a
document of this sort. Where is the prompt circula-
tion of debates? I cannot remember when we first re-
turned here, after about three meetings we had the
last Tuesday's debate laid on the Table in front of
each member. They started, but I do not know if the
policy of the present Government is what we would
call a "morning crowd" policy, because if you make
the mistake of working it in the evening, you cannot
-get any work done. When the sun hits them, they fall


down out-of-wind; so you have to get as much work
out of them before the sun comes out. They made
this promise in the Manifesto. I am not like some
members of this House. I think you were here some
time ago when a member got up and read something
from a document, and when either yourself or the
Chairman of Committees called for it, nothing that
he read was on that document; but here is the Mani-
festo of the D.L.P. They have made another policy
by departing from their promise.

Now, Sir, where is the apparatus? I am a tax-
payer, and that is the hurtful thing about it. It is not
the Minister of Education's broadcasting apparatus
although, I believe, he is responsible for it. I cannot
blame anybody else but him. Part of it is his and part
of it belongs to me; but because he has the power, he
can say not to carry it some place, and that is the law.
He can say "No can do", and that is what is happen-
ing to the representatives of the people. I do not
think that is good enough. We are dealing with Gov-
ernment funds. Mr. Speaker, this should not happen
to you, but do you know that if you just forget to pay
your income tax, a lot of interest is put on? Do you
know'that the person who is unable to pay his income
tax pays more interest than the income tax? When I
pay mine, do you mean that someone whom I do not
know can give directions not to take certain apparatus
to the House of Assembly when it is the policy of the
Government to broadcast all debates and not the
Budgetary alone? It is not forthe Prime Minister and
the hon. senior member for St. Thomas alone.

Now the Rev. Smith said that fooling is dirty
business. This action is either going to make me
come out of politics or stick closer to it, because I
am going to lose my temper when I see the actions
and behaviour of some members of the Government
if I remain, or leave in peace and quiet and let the
people know why. I cannot stand it. If I cannot draw
these things to the people's attention forciblyenough
to let them know what is right from what is wrong,
then I will come out. I am a member of the House of
Assembly you can forget that I am a member of
any Party and people are looking to me and to
others who do not belong to the Government.
3.55 p.m.

You do not have all dumb men in here. We do
not belong to the Government. Hon. members on the
other side of the House said that I was dumb when I
was in the Government. Well, they can be dumb now
too, but I will talk now and let them know the meaning
of dummies. If when I am finished here and they
still say that I am dumb, well, they can call me a
dum-ny. It is not fair to be handling us like that with
these Budgetary Proposals. They were unfair to us
by putting the matter under Private Members' Busi-
ness and keeping it for so long thatthe people do not
even know about it. I intended talking until the new
Budget comes down, because since these Budgetary
Proposals were passed, a lot of water has passed
under the bridge. The devaluation of the pound is
whipping us and I do not know what the Government
is thinking about it, but it is causing great concern.
We do not know what is likely to happen. It is a very








1671


very serious state of affairs, and the people of all
the territories, the leaders, should get together and
think more seriously and more wisely in terms of
the people. You should not try to pat yourself on the
back and think because we have passed a Minimum
Wage Bill for the purpose of protecting the workers
during the hard times, we are out of the wood. You
should not think for one moment that we are out of
the wood because we do not know what is likely to
happen in relation to the cost of living; those three
days in relation to that Bill may be counted or they
may have to be counted as nothing. The increase on
the commodities of life are soaring very high.

We have to think in terms of the people, and of
the very poorest class of people too. I will never be
able to represent the people who can represent them-
selves. I know how some people have to live and how
they are living, and when we are now faced with the
rising cost of living which we cannot stop too easily,
I do not know what is likely to happen. It is just last
week or the week before that we were paying twenty-
five cents a pound for onions and as the old lady said,
before the cat licked his ears, fourteen cents more
went up on the onions which will make them thirty-
five cents a pound. That is only one commodity; that
is, it was going up to something like forty per cent.

The cost of other things which I cannot remem-
ber now, is also soaring and therefore lam appealing
to the Minister to put on his thinking cap and do all
that is possible in this matter. But he cannot do it
all alone; everybody has to co-operate; otherwise we
are going to suffer. We are hearing, and we have been
reading about something called CARIFTA. I will not
say that CARIFTA is not a good job or that they did
not make an effort to do a job, but we have to be very
careful because it has been drawn to my attention
that there are sales men already in this country from
Trinidad fighting hard to sell the people chicken and
eggs from Trinidad. If that is going to be done at a
lower rate than the present one, that will suit me
now, and it may suit Your Honour because it is
cheaper; but what is going to happen if the prices are
so competitive that the present ones cannot exist?
These are items which I feel we can hand e here our-
selves. You agree to this CARIFTA, and if it is a
fact that these people are in here from Trinidad -
one of the poultry people called me up and asked me
what is the meaning of CARIFTA. I said that I could
not commit myself to it, and I doubted if the Prime
Minister could tell him all about it, but that he could
call upon him. The man said: "Why Ihave asked you
this is that there are men here from Trinidad going
through all the business places and they are trying
to make trade with poultry and eggs." He asked'
"Where are you going to get off?" I said: "Do you
know where you are going to get off? If you do not
get off yourself, you will have to go to the Commis-
sioner of Inland Revenue and pay taxes as usual."
He asked, "How can you pay taxes if you do not make
money?" I said: "Make a good return." I could not
help the poor chap. He asked: "Is that going to happen
with commodities which we can produce? I can under-
stand people coming here and selling things which we
cannot produce."
4.05 p.m.


Well, now, we all are jolly good fellows and we
can run all over the area and do as we like. There is
where I would be a little bit timid or in dread of
CARIFTA in the truest sense of the word if we can-
not stop you from coming in and you cannot stop us.
I do not know anything about it; so I am not saying
anything about it. I am only saying what a business
man asked me.

Well, if these people here can do the necessary
business I feel that these people will have to keep out.
If you keep them out I do not know but I hope
that trouble does not come out of it. That is all that
I can hope, Sir. But now, Sir, we are still holding on
to the jacket tails of somebody. Now the fellow that
has something will get something. That is how I see
it, and the fellow that does not have anything would
not get anything.

You can see that Trinidad is not losing or wasting
any time. Although one from ten leave nought, they
are still wrapping up with us now. They still need the
"nothingarians". They are still in our bedroom now.
They cared nothing about us; they did not care for
us; but now every salesman is in Barbados today
trying to fight his way and tryingto get the most, the
best, out of the pudding.

Now, he did not care anything about us. He did
not want us. One from ten leave nought nothing at
all, but they are now trying to get something out of
nothing. If the man has got on his head I always
said that a "little-head" manwas not a sensible man.
I used to say so, but I have to think now differently.
That man out there, I tell you, is prepared to put it
all over us and get the first jump and we will get the
last. One from ten leave nought. Would I want this
one? I would stay with my nought; I would live and
die with my nought and let him live in his one; but
we want to get big too. Go ahead and fight. I wish
everybody luck. I hope my people do notsuffer by it;
I sincerely hope that my people do not suffer by it
because we out here in this little part butt up against
so many snags.

We fight against our own selves. I do not know
what is really happening. I do notknowwhat is likely
to happen. Now, Sir, it is the leaders that I am ap-
pealing to. I am appealingnowto my Prime Minister,
and I am going to ask him to rub shoulder to shoulder
with him and try to get the best that he can for us.
Now we must come down off the highhorse. We must
unite. We must have consultation with each other, ask
questions and let us pull for the shore. Let us pull for
the shore, but if we fight against ourselves we are
now going to get too far.

I am wondering why the leaders, or Iwould say,
some of the leaders, are so selfish. Put it that way.
The slightest thing, and I am not going to enter.
Take, for instance, Jamaica. "Well, we cannot get
the Bank and we are not going to work." Now, Sir,
there is only one territory that the Bank can go into
unless you want to divide it up and put a Bank in all.
That cannot happen. If Barbados was fortunate enough
to get it sitedhere, do you mean to say that one coun-
try must pull out? Is that country really thinking in







1672


terms of the people or of a Bank? That is the ques -
tion.

Well, they are big shots; they want to remain
big shots and they must get everything and little
Barbados must have nothing. They pulled out, and I
am still reading that some of the people or some
of the leaders are still trying to get the leader of
that country to come back. Well, if you cannot operate
without them I am sorry, because if they even come
back, I believe that they are coming back with cer-
tain terms. I do not think they will be going in only
for nothing. They will be asking for or looking at
some concession. They may want some concessions,
and if they are not forthcoming they may depart
again.

Now, Sir, the leaders are to be blamedand I am
going to say something here. It sounds funny; it
sounds hard, but it could be the truth. Do you know
that when any leader or any of the leaders of any
country or any territory make such a mistake that
the people stand to suffer, something should be done
to him? Not just making him lose his seat, because
that is not anything. That is nothing at all. If he
looses his seat, what? He was not born in a seat. He
was not born a Premier. He was not born a Prime
Minister. He was born a human being like anybody
else and he can live as anybody else; but if he makes
such a gross mistake that thousands of people should
suffer by it, at least a few of the thousands should
turn a lash on him and make him understand that that
is for bringing us to such a state. That will make other
leaders keep their heads on and do as much as they
possibly can so as to keep things as they should.

Sir, as we know, these are the Budgetary Pro-
posals and I am telling you now that we cannot see
everything when we are passing Bills. Now, Sir, this
Government has got an act of asking us to pass a Bill
or Bills without the necessary what you call it I
will remember before I finish passing Bills with-
out the Regulations.

Now this is a very serious thing. You may pass
a Bill, and on the face of it you give it the green
light. You give it the green light in the absence of
the Regulations, and then after the Regulations come
into operation you find something in them as dan-
gerous as a marl hole.
4.15 p.m.

That is what is happening: now, Sir. I am dealing
with finance. The Government have to contribute to
the workers under the National Insurance, and the
Government are spending money, too. They have to
contribute to it, and I have to contribute to it. Sir, I
am going to raise apoinghere which I doubt that you,
as one of the best lawyers in the country, have seen.
(ASIDES) I am speaking of one of the best lawyers
in the country now sitting in the Chair. (ASIDES) I
hope : I will never have to be charged, but, if I should
be charged with murder, the Honourable Speaker will
have to bring me out. I have that confidence in him.
I am only speaking my mind and letting the public know
how I feel.


With regard to the National Insurance in this
country, I know that you will be surprised to hear
what I have to say. Sir, it is highway robbery; it is
stealing people's money. I am going to tellyou some-
thing now, and I hope the Hon. Prime Minister will
listen carefully because the Minister in charge is not
here. The Chairman of the National Insurance, the
Minister and others have made the people in this
country feel that it is the best thing that ever came to
Barbados. That may be so, but it is not yet so.

Sir, an old man has been contributing to the
National Insurance; he was 64 years of age; he was
qualified to contribute to the National Insurance, and
he paid his money as I or any other person would.
Listen to what I am saying carefully, and do some-
thing about the matter even before we come back here
next Tuesday; otherwise I will deem the Government
to be robbers. Sir, this old man was working at a
factory for 42 years; he was qualified in June last
year when the Scheme started; he paid his contribu-
tions, but now he has reached his 65th birthday he has
been told that he is no longer protected by the Scheme.
If he dies he gets nothing; if he lives he gets nothing;
if he works he gets nothing. He has been thrown off,
and what makes things worse is the fact that he cannot
get back the money which he contributed for over one
year! Are you going to tell me that this is a scheme
to help the poor, old workers? This old manworked for
42 years as an engine driver at Warrens Factory. He
is still driving the engine and is being relieved by
another man as usual. The other man is younger
than he is. The other man is contributing to the
Scheme; the Factory is contributing to the Scheme,
but the old man who is doing similar work is no longer
protected. I call this high-class robbery.

Sir, what prevents this old man from beingpro-
tected? There is something in the Regulations -- I
do not think the Hon. Prime Minister knows about it,
or has given the matter serious consideration, but the
Minister in charge should have gone into the matter. I
do not expect the Hon. Prime Minister to see and
know anything, especially when it does not come di-
rectly under his portfolio. I think the old man had to
contribute 50 instalments in order to carry on. While
he was qualified in June onhis 64th birthday and any-
thing had happened to him, he would have been enti-
tled to all benefits. If anything had happened to him a
day before his 65th birthday came, he wouldhave been
entitled to all benefits, but now that his 65th birthday
has gone, he cannot get one cent! He cannot even get
back one cent of the money he had contributed.


Mr. Speaker, the old man came to me crying. I
asked him where he lived and he said Haggatt Hall. He
told me that he works at Warrents Factory. I asked
him why he came to me, andhe said that a gentleman
told him to come to me because Iwould listen to him.
Sir, I hope the hon. members on the other side and
the Prime Minister will see how difficult it will be to
get me out of St. Joseph. Even the people in St.
Michael feel that I can get things done. I am the poor
man's friend, and I will die for them. (An hon. mem-
ber: You will also bury them).







1673


Sir, I am hurt. Do you know why? I had a Reso-
lution on the Order Paper dealingwith this matter and
through an act of smartness I hope that is not an
unparliamentary word it was taken off the Order
Paper. I have told the Government that you may get
away with something today, but tomorrow you must
come with something under which I can deal with
certain matters. Sir, this is the snag: the old man
did not pay the 50 instalments. If he had paid the 50
instalments he would have been qualified. He would
have been able to leave the job and go home and re-
ceive his pension. He is now going to get nothing
through no fault of his own. If you want to protect those
who really need protection, then something should be
done about this matter. An old man 70 years of age
needs more protection financially and otherwise than
a man who is 40 years of age.

Sir, I thought the National Insurance Scheme was
there for the purpose of protecting the very old work-
ers, but the very old workers are not being protected.
They are outside looking in, because their age is
against them. Imagine that you are not qualified for
Old Age Pension until you are 68 years of age! I think
speaking subject to correction, that the Government
will not pay the $3.00 a week until a man reaches 68
years of age, but the qualifying age for the National
Insurance is 63 years and you may get something up
to 65 years. It is really 63 years and you have two
years' grace.
4.25 p.m.

I do not know who drafted it, but can't they see
that there is something wrong? You are not qualified
until you are sixty-eight for Old Age Pension, but
you qualify at 65 for National Insurance. It is robbing
these people out of three years. Neither the employ-
or the Government is losing anything, because the
worker and the employer is contributing. You cannot
say you are creating a charge on the Treasury be-
cause both the employer and the worker pay. An em-
ployer is not going to hire someone who cannot work
and as long as you employ a man, whether he is a
76 year old man driving an engine the same way as
the 42 year old man, he is working. So Warren factory
is robbing these men out of the contributions they
should make to them. I am saying, and I know the
Prime Minister will agree with me, that as long as
you can work, there should be no qualifying age. So
long as you can put in a good day's work and the em-
ployer is satisfied with your work, there should not
be an age limit at all, because there are some old
people who can work much better than the young
ones.

Now, you will pardon me for saying this, because
I hate to refer to these cane fires, but a manager told
me that these young people will cut burnt canes, and
they will not touch the ones that are not burnt. They
say they like boned fish; they do not want fish with
bones. They call the canes with trash fish with bones.

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

Mr. SPEAKER: I am afraid that the time for
Private Members' Business this dayhas expired, and


we now proceed to Government Business the first
Order of which stands inthe name of the Hon. Leader
of the House.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, I would like
Sto ask leave to take charge of this Item on behalf of
the hon. member who is out of the Island.

Mr. SPEAKER: The Hon. and Learned Prime
Minister is seeking leave of the House to take charge
of No. 1 on the Order Paper which stands in the name
of the Hon. Leader of the House who is out of the
Island, and unless there is any objection, leave will
be granted.

There being no objection, leave is granted to the
Hon. and Learned Prime Minister to move the House
into Committee of Supply to consider the grant of
sums of money for the service of the Island.

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, Ibegto move
that Your Honour do now leave the Chair and the
House go into Committee of Supply.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: I beg to second that.

The question was put and resolved in the affirmative
without division and MR. SPEAKER left the Chair and the
House went into Committee of Supply, MR. YEARWOOD in
the Chair.

SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES 1968-69 No. 2

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Chairman, this Reso-
lution is for the sum of $5,000 for the purchase of
palantype stenographic machines. Aboutsixoreight
months ago the Public Service recruited when I say
"recruited", they were already members of the
Public Service but canvassed the various Depart-
ments to find out whether there would be people
interested in taking up this course of palantyping. I
think some six people were chosen. The Legislature
was asked whether they would be interested in having
any of the members of the Staff in the Legislature
trained, and we were informed by the Debates Com-
mittee that they had sbme other method of reporting
in view. We have go e on nevertheless, because of
our 'requirements for! servicing conferences, and I
should mention for those members who have never
seen this system in operation that it is one which, I
think, I first encountered amongst people from the
Blind Institution in England which trains people for
reporting in the Courts of Law, and the advantage of
the system is that capabilities in excess of 180 words
a minute can be acquired by competent palantypists,
when ordinarily we insist in Government that the
expert shorthand writer should be able to do only
about 110 words a minute.

This is a system which we thought at one time
would be very useful for this Chamber because the
machines are silent; they look like a hybrid type-
writer. They are portable, and I do not think they
could weight more than 3 1/2 to4 pounds, so that the







1674


average stenographer of medium stature could cart.
one about without any great difficulty. I am very
pleased to say that some of the Government steno-
graphers are now nearing the completion of their
course, and have acquired a very great speed and
dexterity in the use of the palantype machines. As
a matter of fact, at the Heads of Government Con-
ferences in October, although they had been only on
the course for three months, they did render some
assistance in reporting the work of the Conference,
which report incidentally was available from the
Government Printers today and will shortly be laid
on the Table of the House. A new course will be
starting soon; and for those members of the House
who are members of the Debates Committee, since
no change has taken place in the method of getting
the debates out on time, and no great improvement
has been evinced from our side of the Table, I am
going to enjoin the Debates Committee to get on with
the improvement of the reporting of the debates of
this Chamber. We have already lost some of our most
experienced Shorthand reporters, and I think it is
time that a revision of the whole system should be
looked into. That of course, Mr. Chairman, is not at
this moment germaine to the Resolution which hon.
members are considering.

I beg to move that this Resolution do now pass.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: I beg to second that.

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Chairman, this Resolution for
$5,500 as set out in the Addendum has brought some-
thing to my mind which I am quite sure Government
is well aware of. It says "because of the demand for
and scarcity of competent stenographers to facilitate
the work of the various Committees at International
Conferences held in the Island, it has been found
necessary to embark on a programme for the train-
ing of a number of stenographers in the use of the
stenograph shorthand machine."

What amazes me, Mr. Chairman, is to hear of
the scarcity of competent stenographers from which
this country is suffering today. I feel that such a
scarcity in a nation which we sincerely hope will
develop in the interest of the people of this country
is a very sad reflection on the policy of Government
for the reason that many young girls after leaving
school qualified and working in the Government
Service and in private enterprise as stenographers
leave this country to go abroad.
.4.35 p.m.

Many young girls who are leaving school qualified
and working in the Government Service and working in
private enterprise as stenographers, have found them -
selves leaving this country and going abroad to work
in the homes of Canadian and American families as
domestics, simply because of the low wages firstly,
and secondly, because it is an outlet for these girls
to go abroad to further their economic standards. I
use that, Mr. Chairman, simply to say this,that it is
not fair to the taxpayers of this country to be educat-
ing their children, and the only qualifications'for peo-
ple to go abroad as domestics seem to be the girls


from the Banks and from the Government Service,
when in truth and in fact, the real people who should
be going abroad as domestics can never get a chance
to go abroad. That is why the Government today must
say that there is such a scarcity of competent steno-
graphers. I am sure that in this country today, we
can find the finest stenographers, but what do we get?
An American family or a Canadian family is asking
Barbados to send girls abroad, girls with "A" level
and "0" level certificates, to go into theirhomes and
do domestic work. That is why one can safely see what
is responsible for the drain of competent steno-
graphers to help this country.

Mr. Chairman, I am not against the Resolution
although I see no earthly reason why Barbados should
have this Prime Ministers' Conference which I am
told they are going to have here. Of course, I believe
that it is just a prestige Conference to have it in Bar-
bados. I am waiting to see after this Conference what
financial benefit we will get out of it. I think that what
is more important is for us to get an incinerator put
down in this country whereby we will be able to con-
trol the refuse, the litter, which we see all through the
country areas. I think that is more important than to
have a Prime Ministers' Conference here for the
purpose of a prestige booster. That is all it is. But
Government rules and no one can deny them that. You
will find, Mr. Chairman, that however you look around,
you have the Duffs School, the Skinner's Secretarial
School, and all the time, as soon as the students are
qualified, out they go looking for better opportunities.
You cannot blame these young girls; but if they put a
drain on this community, why can't the domestics do
the stenographers' job? The answer to that is "No";
therefore, let us give the person who is the real
domestic the opportunity to go abroad andhelphis or
her family's position at home, and let us keep our
stenographers in Barbados rather than have them
cleaning the homes of American or Canadian families
for $60 a week.

Mr. Chairman, the Hon. Prime Minister may be
indicating to you to stop me or that we should get on
to something else, but it is quite all right. We have
equal rights in here. Ihave made this very clear, that
I have absolutely no objection to this Resolution; but as
a matter of protest against the policy of the domestics
going to Canada, the policy, in which the Government
engages in domestics going to Canada it is not that
I am against the domestics going to Canada, but the
way in which they are recruited and-the people whom
they recruit. I am going to move that this Resolution
be reduced by $1 as amarkof protest against the po-
licy which the Government uses for the purpose of
sending domestics to Canada. I say that because in the
Addendum to this Resolution, it speaks about the scar-
city of competent stenographers. We- have 4,000 chil-
dren who leave the schools each year, and there must
be 4,000 jobs to be found for these people who leave
the schools every year. Am Ito be told that wee cannot
find competent stenographers in this country? We
have them; but the problem is simply this, that those
persons who are best suited to remain inthe country
to help the people of their own country, are taken away
for the purpose of seeing after the interest of.another







1675


country. And more so what? As domestics. It is re-
grettable to know where the Canadians in particular
and some of the West Indian students living abroad
in Canada find themselves. The young ladies are ig-
nored because they are called "sleep-ins", with one
night off a week. "A" level and "0" level students,
good material but they are channelled out of Barba-
dos. Sir, I formally beg to move, in protest of the
policy of the Government in recruiting the staff of
domestics, that this Resolution be reduced by $1.

Mr. HINDS: I beg to second that.

Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Chairman, I am supporting
this Resolution. I am not supporting the reduction by
$1, but I would just like to aska few questions. As I
see it, it is somewhat difficult and different. I know
that there is a shortage of good stenographers, and the
shortage of good stenographers depends primarily
not only on the notetakers, but the people who are qua-
lified in English. That is the big important point. I
know well enough, Mr. Chairman, that these machines
are used at the U. N. andatother places, but what I
would like the Prime Minister to answer at present
is this. I believe that the Government gave approval to
the establishment of Duff's School. I have had some
discussions with some of the pupils and teachers at
Duff's whom I understand are very, very good; but can
the Prime Minister tell us if they have tried to get
some of their stenographers from Duff's or if they
have tried to get them from some of the Secondary
Schools for girls who are qualified in English, or if
they have been able to arrange to get some of the girls
in the Government Service who can beusedas steno-
graphers. It is not merely a question of taking notes;
it is a question of being qualified in English. There
are some people who can take notes flying; but when
they are finished,the English is so poor, that you do
not know one thing from the other.
4.45 p.m.

As far as the other thing is concerned, I want
to say here and now that I do not agree with the last
speaker about the Prime Ministers' Conference, be-
cause as far as I am concerned I think that nothing
could be better for Barbados than a Prime Ministers'
Conference held here in Barbados, because I believe
myself that while it will cost us some money, at least
it will be a booster for Barbados. I would support any
Resolution spending money on a Prime Ministers'
Conference.

Do you knowwhat a Prime Ministers' Conference
will mean for Barbados? It would mean a lot.

I would just say that I know there is a shortage.
I know that this shortage exists in commercial life
today. I would like to know from the Prime Minister,
from the Minister in charge if, having givenpermis -
sion for Duff's to be established here I know that
Duffs is a school nationally known in the U.S.A. if
you have tried to see, if you have selected any of the
girls for the Government Service or tried to get girls
interested from the Secondary Schools in the island
who are qualified in English to come into stenography
and perhaps raise the salary for girls working in this
field.


I am going to support this because I know that it
is absolutely necessary. That is how I feel about it.
I would like an answer about Duff's.

Mr. HUSBANDS: Mr. Chairman, Iwouldbeginby
telling the Committee that I am in favour of the Re-
solution. There is no doubt about it, and do not let
anyone deceive himself. Competent stenographers -
you do not get them all-a-penny. Do not let any
member of this Committee practice self-deception.
I do not know if members of the Committee looked
at the word "stenographer" forgetting that the
epithet immediately before the word was "com-
petent".

I sympathise with the Government, and I sym-
pathise with the Debates Committee. I have been a
member of this Chamber for quite a few years and
Ihave seen many speeches reported, and believe you
me, Sir, I do not think that members would give
much praise to the competency of the stenographers
who are really responsible for the transcriptions.

And when you go outside of this Chamber and go
into the several departments of Government one sees
the problem becoming magnified. Sooner or later
anyone of my experience could envisage that some
type of mechanical shorthand taking had to be de-
vised, had to be used. Now we have been told that
there is a means available of speeding up the business
of conferences, axd I hope, in the not too far distant
future the business of reporting the debates of this
Chamber.

We sometimes have backlogs spreading over
one or more years, and if the Reporters or Steno-
graphers of this House employed by the Debates
Committee can also be trained, I amlookingforward
that better results will follow as far as the reporting
of our debates is concerned.

I think that this money is being well spent. In the
neighboring country of Trinidad, some such system
has been in force before and as far as I have been
told it has proved very, very successful. So I am
commending the Government, and I do hope that the
various Departments of the Government, including our
own Department of the House of Assembly and the
staff who work under the patronage of the Debates
Committee will offer themselves to be trained and
that we will all see beneficial results from the adop-
tion of such a system.

I have heard it said not too long ago that Gov-
ernment policy in selecting domestics for employment
overseas in the United States and Canada follows a
certain trend. I have my personal doubts about it.
From my experience I feel that if there is anyone in
the Labour Department who selects an applicant be-
cause she has an "A" Level or "O" Level Certifi-
cate for work as a domestic in Canada, when she
finds herself in Canada she will soon be fired from
the job. I do not think that that is the norm.

It is just possible that some "A" Levelor may-
be more than one or some numbers of them may find
themselves getting selection from Herbert House for







1676


domestics for Canada or America. Havinganoppor-
tunity to go and get employment in a Canadian or
American home, unless that applicant can also per-
form the necessary domestics required, she willbe
fired sooner or later. That is commonsense.

This Government spends money on training
centres not only in Bridgetown, but in the rural dis -
tricts for training young girls for work overseas.
They are issued certificates from the Ministry of
Education. I have seen these certificates. I know
that there are many agencies other than our own
Labour Department which recruit such workers as
domestics. I do not know if the Governmentwould be
so blind, so foolish, so ignorant, as to select people
who have no specialised knowledge of domestics and
who have no formal training in domestics.

Alongside of Government agencies, American
employment agencies come here and bring their own
representatives on the spot to select people who have
been formally trained at the same educational insti-
tutions provided for the purpose by the Minister of
Education.

I do not see that establishing a policy like that
could pay off. One person might possibly slip through;
but that could not last. How long could it last? Some
people have friends in high places. I know that these
things happen, but as a policy, and am glad to men-
tion it before the Committee, I do not see of what
value it could be. It could have no permanency what-
ever. It could only be short lived.

That is sheer commonsense, because at the
other end the employer would not be satisfied. He is
going to want his work done, and done efficiently. Mr.
Chairman, as I began, I say at the end that I com-
mend this Resolution and I am looking forward to
results -- and quick results, because we do need
them.

I know little or nothing about the operation of
these machines. I was glad that the Prime Minister
mentioned in his short discourse what they were
capable of and how they would expedite the work. I
have no doubt about it because I know that similar
machines have been tried out in Trinidad.
4.55 p.m.

Therefore, I commend the Resolution, and I do
hope that this House of Assembly will soon receive
the benefit from it by means of having our own de -
bates speeded up and the backlogof debates printed.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Mr. Chairman, while I
agree with the hon. members on this side who have
spoken, there are one of two things that seem to need
emphasising. I very much agree with what the mem-
bers said about people getting "O" Level and "A"
Level Certificates and then going away to do domestic
service.

As a matter of fact, I would be inclined to say,
and even members on the Government benches would
be inclined to agree, that getting an "0" Level or an


"A" Level Certificate as things are in Barbados to-
day it is not like when some of us were children and
mothers taught their daughters ho w to cook and fit
them for domestic service. We want to keep them here;
encourage them and find jobs for them. The Govern-
ment seems to find money quite easily for Ministers
to have joy rides abroad by constantly paying visits
which should be done by not even Departmental Heads.
In some cases you need a Departmental Head for some
extraordinary reason, or if you have some extraordin-
ary matter to be discussed. But a Minister! A Minis-
ter like the Minister of Education running around ele-
mentary schools! Could there be anything more stupid
than that? He is just running around was: ing money. A
Civil Servant does that. The Inspectors should do that;
but that is incidental.

I only mention that to show how easy it is to be
over-enthusiastic and to do things which some sub-
ordinate in your Department should do without costing
the Government so much money. I take it that the Min-
isterial Travelling Expenses are at a higher scale than
the Civil Servants in their Departments. That is the
usual practice, but that is by the way. The point is that
I want to emphasise what hon. members have spoken
about these "A" Level people going abroad and be-
coming only domestic servants when something should
be done to find work for them and keep them in the
Government Service.

It seems to me to be remarkable thatyou cannot
find work for the people whom you have trained! Train
them and even tie them down to six months or a
year's obligation to work with you, provided you can
find work for them. Just as you give people Scholar-
ships and tell them when they get through they must
come back and take a job at the Hospital or teaching
at a school you give them something, and you expect
them to give you something in return. Do not send them
abroad to do what you might call inferior status work.

The chief point I want to make has not been made
before. It is this: I want to ask the Prime Minister
whether, as stated here in the Addendum,the Govern- -
ment is looking only at the fact that it needs better
shorthand reporters at International Conferences. I do
not blame anybody, or any Minister -not even the ju-
nior member for St. Thomas of perpretrating this
Addendum. But some Civil Servant has put the object
for this vote as asking to vote money for that one rea-
son. I shall deal with the fact that the Prime Minister
evidently saw that it was a mistake, and brought in the
House of Assembly in his remarks. I do not agree with
the remarks made about the House of Assembly, but I
will deal with that later.

The sole reason here in the Addendum is that we
do not have efficient typists for International Con-
ferences; therefore you have to start this Scheme.
That is the sole reason given. You are now suggesting
to us of course, we would be amazed to find the Gov-
ernment telling the House about something that it pro-
poses to do before it has actually done it! The Govern-
is spending money voted under one huge Head. We shall
have occasion to discuss that later. Money is spent in
this Island and then we hear about it afterwards, and







1677


then it is attempted to be justified under a particular
Head in the Estimates which is vague andun-compre-
hensive. As this Addendum says, you have started
renting these things and using them, because you need
them at International Conferences.

I would like the Prime Minister to tell me how
many International Conferences if he says he cannot
tell me offhand, then I will ask the question in the nor -
mal way. I would like to know how many Internation-
al Conferences have been held here since Indepen-
dence; how many International Conferences he
foresees as likely to take place in the next year. After
all, we have to vote the money year by year. How
great, or how small is the necessity for getting these
for this specific purpose alone? The Prime Minister
will, of course, get up and say that I have forgotten that
he spoke about the House of Assembly.

Mr. Chairman, either the writer of this Adden-
dum was clever enough to see, or had enough know-
ledge to know, that that argument about the House of
Assembly is nonsense, or he did what he was told to
do. We have got these girls; we will tryto get inter-
national Conference after International Conference
held in Barbados; therefore we want to train them
to use these machines. That is really what is intend-
ed. The obvious question which Inowput to the Prime
Minister is this: Between International Conferences,
what happens to these girls? What has happened to
these machines as regards rent between International
Conferences? Are these machines rented for a year
on that basis, or are they rented ad hoc? Whenever
there is a West Indies Caribbean Conference, do you
rent the machines then, or do you have them already
rented? Do you rent the machines for the dull period
as well as the special period? The House is entitled
to know these things. What is the presentprocedure?
What money is being paid out for the rental of these
machines? Are you merely renting them when you
want them, or are you renting them for all time, so
to speak?

I am not saying anything against the use of these
machines as such. I saw these machines being used
20 years ago at the United Nations. It was the first
time I had seen them. I was told by a Colonial Office
official that they were new to them; they had found
them so efficient and they saved so much time that
they had embarked on them although they were com-
paratively, in Great Britain at any rate, a new device.
We had them in the Federation, and, like touch-typing,
it was really amazing to see how fast the girls were
with them. The only people I do not want to be
facetious, and I hope you do not think that I am de-
scending from the sublime to the ridiculous I have
seen as fast as the girls on those machines were girls
boning codfish in Canada looking off and not cutting
themselves! Just taking up a fish, cutting off its head
while talking to the girl next door and so on. I refer
to the Sardine people in Canada.
5.05 p.m.

I suggest that none of us would really want to say
that these machines cannot be more useful, but I cer-
tainly do not agree with the argument about the House


of Assembly. It is not a question of speed. If these
Reporters in the House go out every ten or fifteen
minutes, what difference, does it make if they are good
enough to write long hand in that time so long as
they get down what you are saying? These machines
cannot help as far as the House of Assembly debates
are concerned. It is having enough Reporters that they
can get what they have written down transcribed so
that the Official Gazette can come out as it should the
following day. That is what we need. We need more
Reporters here. Maybe we need to give them better
salary. I do not know what salary they get, but when
so much money is being thrown around to Ministers,
you could throw around some to your employees. I
have found, as some previous member has said, that
it is a lack of English. Some of the Reports are
appalling. I do not know when my eyes are closed and
future generations read some of the debates that the
present Leader of the Opposition is supposed to have
made, whether they would put the blame on me or on
the Reporters.

I have seen some fantastic things. I am not one
of those members of the House and I do not know if
it is still a habit who make it a point of getting I
can think of two members especially in the Old House
- hold of the Reporters and in effect re-writing their
speeches in better English. I can call not because
they are dead, but because it is known at least to
some of the older members of this House a former
Reporter of this House, Mr. Maynard, who was first
class in speed, and used to correct, but correct fairly.
I know members of the House of Commons are told
that they can see their speeches, but do not go and
write in something they did not say because they may
have forgotten to say it and now want it in. But Mr.
Maynard was all right as regards doingthat and help-
ing members with better English; and he was a first
class shorthand writer. Mr. Taylor before him was
said to be one of the fastest shorthand writers this Is-
land has ever seen, but his English was appalling. I
remember once in a debate on smuggling in which I
spoke of people bringing something through the chute -
and you can find it inthe Official Gazette now and I
was reported as saying "bringing something through
the shoe". That is what should be emphasisedhere as
regards our reporting. There should be more Report-
ers and quicker work, and whether you use touch-
typing or anything else, it does not improve matters.
If the Headmasters of some of these Secondary Schools
which teach shorthand would pass on to Government
the names of boys who would make good Reporters in
the future, the Government could train them, give them
bursaries or anything it likes. That would be useful
because their English ought, normally speaking, to be
better than the old-time Reporters who unfortunately
had only the advantage of an elementary school educa-
tion. I say "unfortunately" speaking in a general way,
because not everybody who is a success in after life
went to a College or University.

Some of you may have this morning heard an
account of the life of Sir Rufus Isaacs who left school
at fourteen, and there is hardly anything you can think
of that Sir Rufus Isaacs did not do. He was one of the
greatest advocates at the Bar, Viceroy of India, For-







1678


eign Secretary and Great Britain's Chief adviser in
the 1914 War and so on; so it is not the fact that you
have only an elementary education that prevents you
from rising.

I do want to make these two points that if the Gov-
ernment is confining this to the fact that at Interna-
tional Conferences you need a better and more ef-
ficient way of typing, there must also remember the
English side of it and tell the House from the money
point of view what happens to those machines in the
period between meetings. If the House will forgive me
again for saying it, the remedy for anything you find
wrong now with the reporting is speed, not speed in
taking down, but speed in getting out the debates. I
certainly, to whatever extent very limited, may have
looked at recent debates, and I cannot find any fault
with the reporting of the English of the present lot of
Reporters that we have; but I do pity them when you
make absolutely justifiable complaints that the de-
bates take too long to come out. I do not desire to
throw any spanner in the works or anything of the
sort, but I do feel that the House is entitled to ask
the Prime Minister the questions which we on this
side have just put through me.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Chairman, Ithinkthat
one of the things that one learns when you have to dis -
charge the duties of office in this Legislature is a
great deal of patience, especailly when you have to
deal with people who should know'better. I want to
disabuse the minds of one or two hon. members of
some misconceptions which they may have. The hon.
member who has just sat down has built up cases,
answered them as if he were me, of course giving the
wrong answers in typical style, and then proceeded
to abuse himself of giving the wrong answer instead
of waiting for me to give the answers to the questions
if he honestly and sincerely is interested in correct
answers; but having been in one way or another asso -
ciated with him for a long time, Ithink we can put up
with these infirmities. There is such a stage of senil-
ity that I hope that Ipass to the Great Beyond before
I get to it.

We are here to discharge the people's business,
and therefore everything we do and say should be
directed towards the efficient and honest discharge
of the people's business,whether we are on this side
of the House or on that side of the House. We should
regard ourselves as a Board of Managers or Direc-
tors, and not people who come in here to hurl vulgar
abuse across the Table of the Legislature. Ihave not
come in here to indulge in any exercise in semantics
or logic or anything like that, but when I hear all these
illogical arguments emanating from the other side, and
then with a kind of schizophrenic display turn around
and jump around as if they were speaking as some -
body else, and then attack themselves and then come
back on the other side and say they do not agree with
either of the two split personalities, what can you do
with that otherside of the Lunatic Asylum? The hon.
ilember who has just sat down said that he had the
stenograph machines in the Federal Government. I
thought that would be the end of the matter. Then he
went on to say how efficiently they worked. We are


concerned with efficiency, and he himself would know
that the stenotypists or palantypists which they would
have in the Federal Government were trained not to
sit down with their machines like somebody padded
up waiting for a Conference, but they carriedout and
discharged their normal duties as Secretaries and
stenographers, and when the occasion arose for an
International Conference, they constituted what is
known in Guyana, in Trinidad and Tobago and in
Jamaica as a verbatim pool.

Now what we have here in Barbados is a verbatim
pool in the House of Assembly. If there is one place
in which increased efficiency, without any reflection
on the personal competence of the reportorial staff,
was needed in the reporting and publication of the
debates, it is the House of Assembly. In the same
way that whether we like it or notwe are moving into
an age where you get mechanisation of cane harves-
ting, we are moving into an age where we are getting
mechanisation of verbatim reporting. That is all it is.
5.15 p.m.

So, to answer the hon. member's question if he
did not know the answer already, we have recruited
stenotypists or palantypists, because these machines
being of American origin rather than of British origin,
where they call them stenotype machines, the key-
boards are slightly different and they are silent short-
hand reporting machines. The principle is the same as
shorthand. Instead of writing the characters in short-
hand or grammalogues or whatever you call them,
you punch a key and that key reproduces something
which may be in the way of a punch or a character on
a roll of tape. The hon. member said that it could
never apply to the House of Assembly because the
Reporters can leave here and go inside. We have been
severely afflicted here in the House of Assembly by
the illness, from time to time, of our Reportorial
Staff who work under very difficult conditions. One of
the obvious advantages of having the palantype machine
is that the person who has taken a verbatim report
need not be the person who is transcribing that ver-
batim report, because no matter how light or heavy
the touch may be, no matter how artistic you are in
your caligraphy or the tape, it all comes out the same
way, no matter who is doing the reporting.

Our system here in the House of Assembly is such
that the Reporters take notes for between ten and fif-
teen minutes, and when they leave here they have to
go outside and transcribe their notes to a stenogra-
pher. Therefore two people are involved in each
transcription. With the palantype machine, the person
who takes the verbatim report can transcribe ithim-
self or herself directly on to the typewriter or,
alternatively, go home for lunch or supper or take ill
if he or she wants to do so, and somebody else can type
it straight on to the machine without two people being
involved in the exercise. Is that not increased effi-
ciency? It is true that the Addendum to the Resolution
says that there is an increased requirement for Inter-
national Conferences and this is true outside of the
House of Assembly to whom the Chief Training Officer
wrote on my instructions and to the Law Courts from
which we have recruited at least one, and I believe







1679


two, of the trainees. Those are the places where you
need verbatim reports the Legislature, the Law
Courts and Conferences. As far as the Government is
concerned, the Conference happen to be our sector in
Government and we can justify the use of these ma-
chines on the frequency with which we have commit-
tee work and Conference Work in Barbados alone. We
have already given last year and early this year the
list of Conferences which we have had and I would
be pleased to come in here and give them the list
of Conferences which we have during the course of a
year. The Conferences are not necessarily Prime
Ministers' Conferences. I should like to assure the
hon. member who mentioned that Conference that I do
not know up to nowhere the venue of the Prime Min-
isters' Conference is going to be because it has not
been decided. It depends a lot on the domestic situa-
tion in the United Kingdom, and there are three places
at the outside there are only four places which have
been short listed for the Conference. One is Barbados,
one is London, one is Ottawa and the other is Jamaica.
The Jamaicans do have some kind of claim. Let me
put it in this way. They may not have any claim to
other things, but they may have some kind of claim
because, before we became independent, they had
offered to hold such a Conference. However, it has
been pointed out to them that they have had the Fi-
nance Ministers' Conference and Trinidad has hadthe
Finance Ministers' Conference, and the Finance
Ministers' Conference this year will take place in
London on the 25th and the 26th June. This may make
it easier for London to be the venue of the Prime
Ministers' Conference as well because one can go
right on after the other. For anyone to suggest that
we, as an independent, sovereign nation, would be
wasting time and money to entertain at this stage
of the world's history when we have all of the news-
gathering and disseminating agencies from allover
the world -- every single movement of the Conference
of twenty-five Heads of Governments in the Common-
wealth representing every independent Commonwealth
country -- to say that this is a waste of time and
money could only be said by someone who is really
living in Mars or in outer space. Therefore, I would
not worry to take that remark seriously; but if they
had been in Government you would hear them say:
"Oh! this is an indication of with what great respect
the Leader of our Party is regarded because they left
Australia, Canada, Jamaica, Nigeria and Kenya, and
this man is such a giant in the International circles
that they have decided to come down for the Confer-
ence". (ASIDES). Sometimes the little, foolish, nay-
nay Colonial Office handout used to beat a bigger drum
than that. (Laughter). The little nay-nay, cold-pone
handout, and you get the newspapers runningarticles
for seventeen weeks to show what a great leader they
had. Somebody would say that when Mr. MacMillan
passed through Barbados, it was the greatest thing
that happened in Barbados since the emancipation of
slavery, that one Prime Minister passed through for
two days.

Now, we are having a Conference of twenty-five
Prime Ministers, and they say that we are spending
too much money. One conservative, reactionary Prime
Minister passed through and it was said in the Federal


House and I have the debates by the Hon. Leader
of the Opposition that it is the greatest thing that
happened to the West Indies since the emancipation
of slavery. (Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: That is not true.)
I will bet one hundred dollars on it. I have the Report
in my office. Do not tell me that it is untrue. Are you
going to blame the Reporters in the Federal House
now and say that they copied wrongly? And you had
all these years to correct it. The greatest thing that
ever happened! One Prime Minister passed through
for two days and we are having twenty-five Prime
Ministers for four weeks, and we are throwing away
money! (ASIDES). Cold-pone foolishness. (Laughterl.

Let us get back to the point now, Mr. Chairman.
I understand that the hon. senior member for St.
James moved the reduction of the vote for these
palantype machines. He is the kind of person who
would have led a protest march against the invention
of the wheel; he is so backward. If he though that it
was popular to say that we should burn up all the cane -
cutting machines, he and some of his colleagues would
be demonstrating all up and down Broad Street saying
that we are throwing poor people out of work, for-
getting that the trouble we are getting now is the fact
that we are importing people to do the work which
Barbadians did, because of the migration and em-
ployment opportunities provided during the past six
years. (Mr. ST. JOHN: Nonsense). There was never
in the history of the former Government a time when
there was a shortage of cane-cutters because they did
not have anything else to do. Similarly with the
stenographers. The reason why there is a shortage
of stenographers, or one of the main reasons for it,
is not that we are training less people; we are train-
ing more people. You can go down Broad Street and
you will see girls from Private Secondary Schools
working in places in which, seven years ago, they
would never dream of even going into ask for a glass
of water or what the time was.
5.25 p.m.

Because when I said that Barbados under inde-
pendence would not be subject to the same quota re-
strictions, one of them said I was telling lies. Our
girls now, whether they have one subject or two sub-
jects, want to go and see the outside world as is tra-
ditional with Barbadians from time immemorial.

I want to say this in defence of domestic servants.
I remember I had a friend who saidthat anybody who
wanted to come and work in his kitchenhad to have a
B.Sc. in Domestic Science and a little odd diploma. I
do not go as far as he does, but if we believe in a
society in which the distinction between one class and
another should be removed, what is wrong with a girl
with English, Religious Knowledge or shorthand or
Book-keeping who voluntarily -nobody is tying them
and dragging them to Seawell Airport or putting them
like the Middle Passage on a boat or sweating 7,000
in a hold and one plantain to share at tea time or
shovelling them up to Canada or the U.K. They are
flocking the Employment Exchange voluntarily. They
have friends up there. They go up to Canada, work for
a year and save money living in the menage of the
employer and do not have to think about house rent.







1680


There are some of them working in the Prime
Minister's Office now in Canada. I do not make any
apology, but it is not our policy to recruit stenogra-
phers under the controlled Domestic Scheme whereby
Babrados is allocated 42. That is not our policy.

Let me explain that there is a two-pronged move -
ment going on. There is the controlled Department
quota carried over from the pre-federal days of 42
per annum. I do not know of a single case because I
had to ask some questions myself of anyone with a
First or Second Class certificate from the Housecraft
Centre among the 42. I will disclose to hon. members
that all the Heads of Government of the independent
Caribbean countries asked the Canadian Government
not to abolish the quota system. Why? We were aware
that the quota system is irrelevant; the quota system
is irrelevant because you do not have I will tell all
and sundry that you do not have to get on that 42 to go
to Canada as a domestic worker.

The Canadian Government wrote us asking if we
would like to abolish this. Sir Alexander Bustamante
Dr. Eric Williams and the High Commissioners and
we decided "No". Keep that and let the two operate
side by side, because if you abolish the quota you
might wake up one morning and find some other Gov-
ernment will come up and change the Immigration Act.
Therefore as long as you established your right to the
quota, that was the minimum to which you could ex-
pect to go for psychological reasons. What I am saying
now is that if there are any young girls being pushed
around at the Labour Office saying that they have to
wait until next year, that is not so. Write to P.O.Box
125 in Port of Spain. Anybody who can satisfy the
Canadian Immigration Authorities that they have had
experience and training in domestic service do not
even have to have a job awaiting them.

Representatives of the Department of Immigration
will meet them at the Railway station and look after
them at the Y.W.C.A. or some other place until they
find a job, and actually give them subsistence until
they find jobs for themselves.

I started off by saying, Mr. Chairman, that as far
as I am concerned, I do not go as far as my friend
who said that before you could cook in his kitchen you
would have to have a B.Sc. The trouble with him is
that he cannot even get somebody to marry because of
his high requirements. The women feel that they will
have to have a Ph.D.

What I am saying is that there should be stigma
attached to domestic service. In Bermuda and the
Bahamas the minimum pay of domestic servants is
U.S. $12 a day, and when they drive up to the front
door at 8 o'clock in the morning you must have the
breakfast on the table or look for a domestic servant
because there is a shortage of domestic workers in the
Bahamas because of their restricted immigration
policy and you just cannot get them. (A MEMBER: Not
true).

Mr. CHAIRMAN: Hon. Members will observe -


Hon. E. W. BARROW: Iam saying that it is true.
I can give the facts. The hon. member said that he
could vouch for it. A friendofhis, Dr. King, sat down
and explained all of this Mr. Jubie Reece's friend
years ago that they were getting $12 a day.

What is wrong with domestic work? People have
left Combermere School and gone out on the same
quota system to the U.S.A. with distinctions in the
School Certificate and worked as bell hops, elevator
boys and washing off motor cars, and today they are
some of the prominent citizens.

What is wrong is some girls with "A" or "0"
Level Certificates who do not feel scornful about do-
mestic work but who like to have independence of mind
and spirit enter this kind of work? One of these days
even to get into the House of Assemblyyou may have
to have an "A" Level. In a society which is progres-
sive, you cannot stratify its citizens into those who
have "A" Levels and those who do not. The objective
of the society must be to raise everybodyup because
you may even need a B.A. (General) to get in to the
Civil Service.

All that we are saying is that this Government is
aware that people who are qualified stenographers have
left the Government Service for private employment
and gone to work in the U.S.A. and Canada for a limi-
ted period of their own free will and volition as domes -
tic workers; but the connotation of domestic worker
in a place like Ottawa and a place like Belleville
where even a two-and-a-half year old child can order
about a big married woman and say "Brooks, do this"
and then she has to say "Yes, Master so-and-so" is
a different concept altogether. This is a progressive
society. (A MEMBER: Tell us about I.S.L. about
kicking.)

Mr. CHAIRMAN: I ask for order, please.

Hon. E. W.. BARROW: If you go to the Bahamas
you will find that 50% of their teachers in public
primary and elementary schools are people who left
Barbados as Police recruits to go up to the Bahamas
and they have not been ashamed to go up there and
offer their services for limited period as policemen.
Their services have been called into play in respon-
sible positions in the Government service.

Let us get away from this idea of taking away
jobs from poor domestic servants. We would like to
see a levelling up of this society so that when a
girl steps out of her Broad Street store or Swan
Street shop or out of somebody's kitchen and she gets
on the road, the way she is dressed and the way she
deports herself, you would not be able to tell whether
she is a domestic servant or a stenographer in one
of the high ranking Banks or in Government employ.
That is the sort of society we want. That is what we
are looking forward to.

I will now come to the question of the shortage.
The question of the shortage is an indication of the
success of the Government's policy in broadening the







1681
-


avenues of employment in this country. More people
are being trained today as stenographers than were
ever trained before in the history of Barbados. We
have two Business Colleges, and we have more pri-
vate schools going in for stenography than before,
but the demand has increased out of all proportion to
the supply of these persons.
5.35 p.m.

I should like to say that I am not 10070 satisfied
with the mobility of the Government educational sys -
tem. The older teachers do not seem to be able to
inspire the girls to take up stenography at an early
enough age. The commercial stream is regarded at
a sort of second-rate stream, and they are not at-
tacking this problem vigorously enough in the schools
in Barbados. The result is that the girls in the com-
mercial stream start at $300 a month, and the girls
in the academic stream, who go right through to the
Sixth Form, enter the Government Service at $125 a
month. This is the kind of nonsense that we have in
this society, but these old traditions die very hard
and there is no point in giving people formal educa-
tion and educating them out of remunerative employ-
ment. This is part of the tradition in this society, and
I am very glad that private institutions have come
along to assist.

Now, with the establishment of our Technological
Institute, or Trades College, or whatever you call it -
the name has not yet been designated or the Com-
munity College, we hope that we will have a higher
degree of proficiency at all levels in all of these
trades and crafts.

To come back very briefly to the House of Assem-
bly and the Courts, when the Scheme was started they
wanted to train three, but I directed the Training
Officer, who is now considered one of the Permanent
Secretaries and is no longer with the Public Service
Commission, to train twelve because I could not see
any Conference in which you could work with fewer
than eight people in a verbatim pool. Wehave to look
at the man power budget of the Government and the
requirements of the Government. What I said was this:
first write to the Registrar of the Supreme Court and
the Clerk of the House of Assembly to find out whether
any of the officers would be willing to take the course
which would be paid for at Government's expense. It
is a pool that we are creating; we are not creating a
number of palantypists who are sitting down with
their machines doing nothing else. Some of the people
that we have recruited have been Ministerial Secre-
taries. We have recruited at least one person I
believe it was two, but I am sure of one from the
Law Courts. (An Hon. MEMBER: Two.) We have
recruited two from the Law Courts. We had an offer
of one from the House of Assembly, but after the
Debates Committee said that they were investigating
some other system we had to drop the House of As-
sembly Reporters. We are still willing to train the
House of Assembly Reporters.

Mr. Chairman, the machines that we are buying
will be available to the verbatim pool,but the purpose
of having them now is that the young ladies and the


young gentlemen have reached over one hundred
words a minute already, and, in order to keep up
their proficiency and take them up to one hundred and
eighty words a minute, which is supposed to be top
level, we feel that it is not good enough to continue
renting machines at $30 a month. There is no point
in renting machines, and they must have the machines
with them all the time. If we rent twelve machines it
will cost us $360 a month, so that in about fourteen
months we could have bought the machines. It is as
simple as that. Now, when these six or eight persons
graduate in a few weeks' time eight or ten weeks
or whatever time it is we hope to recruit a new
batch so that we can build up a respectable pool of
competent machine stenotypists. That is the object
of the exercise.

It is inevitable in any developing society at every
professional level it is happening to Canada, the
United Kingdom, Barbados and Jamaica that there
is a brain and a drain of technically qualified and pro-
fessional people, and all we have to do is to continue
training people. You have increased their earning
capacity, and they are making room forotherpeople.
This is one of the paradoxes of the kind of world we
live in today, and we have to face up to it. But you
cannot deny people of training because it is going to
make them more qualified, and they may go abroad.
This is a calculated risk that every Government in
the world, except the United States, has to take today.

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Chairman, after listeningto the
Hon. Prime Minister, and after watchinghim generate
some heat and doing the dances called the "Funkey"
and the "Bugaloo" as well as he has done them at
"Mary's Moustache", I think, Sir, on his demonstra-
tion this afternoon, that I can do him no greater hon-
our than to withdraw the motion which I have before
this Committee. I think he gave us a wonderful display
of his vigour. I am quite sure that tonight, after he
has got rid of a bit of his steam, I will not have the
opportunity of seeing him at Mary's Moustache' doing
those famous dances. Mr. Chairman, I beg to with-
draw my motion which is before the House.

Mr. CHAIRMAN: I think the hon. member who
has just sat down will have to ask leave of the House
to withdraw such a Motion.

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Chairman, I beg to askleave of
the Committee to withdraw the motion.

Mr. CHAIRMAN: Leave has been sought by the
hon. member to withdraw his motion. Hearing no
objection, leave will be granted. I have heard no ob-
jection and, therefore, leave is granted.

The question that the Resolution for $5,500 do now
pass was put and resolved in the affirmative without divi-
sion.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Chairman, I beg to
move that Your Honour do now report the passing of
one Resolution in Committee.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: I beg to second that.








1682


The question was put and resolved in the affirmative
without division, and the CHAIRMAN reported to Mr.
SPEAKER who resumed the Chair.
Mr. SPEAKER: The Chairman has reported to
me the passing in Committee of Supply of one Reso-
lution.
5.45 p.m.
On separate motions of Hon. E. W. BARROW, seconded
by Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON, the Resolution was read a first
and second time and agreed to.

THE FINAL APPROPRIATION (1967-68)
ACT, 1968

Mr. SPEAKER: The next Order of the day stands
in the name of the Hon. and Learned Prime Minister
and it is to move the second reading of a Bill to grant
an additional sum of money out of the Consolidated
Fund and appropriate the same for the service of the
Island for the year ended on 31st March, 1968.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, accordingto
the Constitution of this country, as soon as possible
after 31st March in each and every year, a Final
Appropriation Bill has to be brought to Consolidate
all the Supplementary Resolutions upon which the
House had voted during the financial year. The pur-
pose of this Bill provides for the grant of $5,608,
385.50 to be voted out of the Consolidated Fund and
for the appropriation of such sum for the services
and purposes set out in the Schedule.

I beg to move that this Bill be now read a second
time.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: I beg to second that.
The question was put and resolved in the affirmative
without division.

On the motion of Hon, E. W, BARROW, seconded by
Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON, Mr, SPEAKER left the Chair and
the House went into Committee on the Bill, Mr. YEARWOOD
in the Chair.

The Preamble was called and postponed,

The Schedule was called and passed,

Clauses 1 to 4 inclusive were called and passed.

The Preamble was called and passed,

On motion of Hon. E. W. BARROW, seconded by Hon.
G. G. FERGUSSON, Mr. CHAIRMAN reported the passing of
one Bill in Committee, and Mr. SPEAKER resumed the Chair
and reported accordingly.

On separate motions of Hon. E. W. BARROW, seconded
by Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON, the Bill was read a third time and
passed.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, Ibegto move
that Order No. 5 be the next Order of the Day.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: I beg to second that.
The question was put and resolved in the affirmative
without division.


AMENDMENTS TO DAIRY INDUSTRY (REGULA-
TION AND CONTROL) ACT, 1968

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker Order No. 5
deals with certain amendments which have been sent
down from the Other Place. Your Honour will remem-
ber that shortly before the adjournment of the House
on the last occasion, these amendments were moved
for adoption by the House. I entertained some doubt
as to the wisdom of one of the amendments. I have
had an opportunity to discuss the amendment with
some I say "some" advisedly of the members
of the Other Place and they are inclined to agree with
me.
5.55 p.m.

Some people may still argue that the first Amend-
ment to Section 3 of the Act or Clause 3 of the Bill,
whichever way you elect to look at, may be valid in
one way or the other. If I may emphasize this, Sir,
there is the definition -of "dairy keeper" in the
Interpretation Clause, which is Clause 2 of the Bill.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, Iam sorry
to interrupt the hon. member. I suggest that the
Prime Minister move that these amendments be con-
sidered in Committee, because, even on the very
point he is speaking now, I am sure that some hon.
members would like the opportunity to speak more
than once.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, I do not see
that it is any matter of so great importance that one
should feel one-self constrained to speak more than
once on a simple matter like this, since, as I inti-
mated earlier, some of the members who moved the
said amendment are now persuaded that the amend-
ment was an unnecessary one. I will explain the rea-
son behind it. The Interpretation Clause of "dairy
keeper" says: "'dairy keeper' means any person who
sells or offers for sale milk produced by milch ani-
mals owned or maintained by him." The Amendment
which is to Clause 3 says: "As from the commence-
ment of this Act no dairy keeper shall sell or offer
for sale any milk unless he has first been granted by
the appropriate authority a dairy keeper's licence in
the prescribed form," to short circuit the thing. The
point is this: From the definition of "dairy keeper",
if you change Clause 3 from "no person" which is
the normal way in which penalty Clauses are worded
-- we say, for instance, that no person shall drive a
motor vehicle without first having obtained a licence,
or in any of the various penalty Clauses. That is the
point which I made lasttime. If younow put in "dairy
keeper" it means that you can only prosecute a man
if he is selling milk produced from cows owned or
maintained by himself, but if he is selling milk from
somebody else's cows, then he goes scot free. It is as
simple as that. I think that even the legal luminaries
on the other side will agree with me on this point. I
think that the Lower House ought to assert its legal
supremacy over the Other Place in seeing that we
have a little more legal perspicacity than they have.
If any hon. member thinks that there is a great
argument in supporting the Other Place on this, I do
not mind how many times they speak. (Mr. MOTTLEY:







1683
- ---------- -------I


Are you serious about this?) I said that the collec-
tive wisdom... (ASIDES) I think that hon. members
are in agreement with me and therefore I beg to
move that the amendment there is only one con-
sequential amendment which deals with the making
of Regulations for the payment of fees for licensing
and medical examinations required by the Act. Regis -
tration has been eliminated, and I think the reason
why registration has been eliminated is that regis-
tration may not necessarily carry a fee. I do not
think that anywhere in the Act they specifically al-
lude to registration; they allude to the granting of a
licence upon fulfilling certain requirements. Any-
how, I am prepared to accept that amendment. Mr.
Speaker, I beg to move that the first amendment, that
is, to Clause 3, be now agreed to.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: I beg to second that.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, that is
why I was trying to tell the hon. member that it may
be necessary for somebody to wish to speak twice.
Clause 3 as passed by the House is also imperfect.
We do not need a lawyer to see that the amendment
of the Other Place is just sheer nonsense. Anybody
with average intelligence can look and see that putting
in "dairy keeper" was nonsense as a substitute for
"person". But you read Clause 3 as passed. I suggest
to the Prime Minister that we should amend Clause 3
now. As originally passed it says this: "As from the
commencement of this Act ......." I am only saying
this because I have to say it. I do not expect the
Prime Minister to agree with it. The mere fact that
I am saying it would be sufficient for him to disagree
with it. But Clause 3 says this:

"As from the commencement of this Actnoper-
son shall sell or offer for sale any milk unless he has
first been granted by the appropriate authority a dairy
keeper's licence in the prescribed form."

I am suggesting that we say "a dairy keeper's
or a milk seller's licence." The definitionof "milk"
is ice cream among other things. You have these boys
who push about snowballs and they come under the
Act. Do you tell me that they must get a dairy keep-
er's licence? Can't the hon. Prime Minister, in spite
of what he may think about me, see that that Section
is imperfect?

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, I have the
answer for the hon. member. I have not seen it now,
but I remember when we were considering the draft
of the Bill, there is a separate provision for "milk
seller" and there is a definition of "milk seller",
and there is also a sanction against someone selling
milk without having a milk seller's licence. You can
either telescope the two Clauses and say that no one
shall sell or offer for sale any milk unless he has
been granted a dairy keeper's or a milk seller's
licence, but they have done it in two separate Clauses,
one for dairy keepers. Personally, for the first time
in my life as a matter of drafting elegance, I may be
inclined to agree with the Hon. Leader of the Opposi-
tion. This legislation was modelled, as far as I can
remember, on the New Zealand and the United King-
dom legislation, and if we are going to follow the
case law closely by telecoping the two definitions,we


may run into interminable difficulties which might
give the Courts some trouble. Therefore, I would
prefer to leave that alone, but the point is well taken.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, I just want
to point out that selling a milk product which would be
ice-cream or cheese is one thing and is covered by
that Section, but the word "selling" has such a wide
interpretation that I well, the Bill about a dairy
keeper and selling his own milk is abolished now,
but I, who keep a cow, have no milk business, find a
surplus and exchange it with my neighbour for a
couple of pounds of something or some eggs. I have
sold that milk. That is not covered.
6.05 p.m.

The Hon. Prime Minister just got up andpointed
out that the combination of dairy keeper and milk pro -
duct is covered by a section lower down.Pure milk -
when I say "pure milk" I do not mean as distinct
from impure milk; I mean milk alone you can sell
without having a dairy or without being a vendor.

That is not covered. This is going to work I
can see some lawyers will make money out of this,
There will be somebody to whom the lawyers will
point out that you are not covered for selling milk
products. You are merely selling on Sunday mornings
without a policeman looking on. In fact you can do it
even with a policeman looking on.You are just selling
milk; you are not carrying on a milk business.

It is merely my duty, having spotted it straight
away, to point out that it is a mistake just as the
Senate's is a mistake.

Mr. SPEAKER: The Other Place.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, we are not
here to redraft the Bill, but to say whether we accept
or reject the Senate's amendments.

Mr. SPEAKER: The other Place.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: I am aware that lawyers
can argue anything in the Law Courts, but the Magis-
trate is not bound to agree with it. What we are con-
sidering are amendments.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: On a point of order.

Hon. E. W, BARROW: Excuse me, Sir. We have
already debated this Bill and passedthe third reading
These are points that the hon. member should have
raised before.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: I am asking Your Hon-
our to rule whether it is right to say that we can only
consider the amendments of the Other Place.Of course
you can make other amendments, but the hon. member
just said that we can only consider the amendments
of the Other Place.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: On a point of order. I do
not know that I have to rise on a point of order, but
I have risen.

Mr. SPEAKER: So far as I am -

Hon. E. W. BARROW: May I just say in view of
this procedure that if a new amendment is insinuated







1684


into the Bill as it stands it will be necessary for the
House to go through the formaliites Of a second and
third reading at this stage. At this juncture I am not
saying that the hon. member cannot ask for recon-
sideration. I am saying that we will be doing what we
should have done before, and the Other Place has
corrected something that we did not amend earlier on.
I am merely moving that the amendment to Clause 4
(1) be accepted.

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, I want to
speak on the first motion referring to the amendment
of Clause 3. I do not wantto detain the House unneces-
sarily with arguments. I must say that I agree with
the idea of rejecting the Senate's amendments.

Mr. SPEAKER: The other Place.

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: The Other Place. On
the last occasion the Minister of Agriculture was
recommending to the House to accept this amend-
ment, and the Prime Minister to some extent shoved
him aside and even took the microphone from him
and indicated that it could not be done that way.
While I was not in agreement with the rather drastic
way in which it was done, Iwas not in agreement with
the suggestion that the amendment was reasonable.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am sorry that we do not have
a Devil's Advocate on this occasion to put whatever
argument there was prevailing in the Other Place.
There are lawyers in the Other Place and some of
them go into the Courts from time to time, and there
must have been some reason for this.

As I see it, the amendment of the Other Place
would still have permitted the promiscuous sale of
the casual sale of milk. I suppose that that is the
argument which prevailed. I suppose that the Prime
Minister has had an opportunity of speaking with
members of the Other Place which I have not had. Is
it intended at this stageto prevent forever the sale
of milk by people who keep one cowprincipally to pro -
vide milk for the their own consumption and for that
of their families, but who occasionally have milk
that they want to sell?

If you say that no person shall sell or offer for
sale any milk I am surprised to hear that this is
taken from the New Zealand legislation because it
does not seem to me that Sections 3 and22 cover all
the situations that may arise. When you read Section
2, it will prevent a Supermarket from selling fresh
milk. When you read Section 3 as it Mr. Speaker,
Sir, I hear voices on this side of the House perhaps
in breach of whatever Standing Order it is relating to
members conversing not in undertones.

Mr. SPEAKER: I have some difficulty inhearing
the hon. and learned member for St, Thomas.

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: I will not interrupt the
hon. senior members for Christ Church and St. Joseph
for too much longer; but in fact any person selling
or offering- milk for sale those words on the face'
of it would exclude a shop selling fresh milk. You,


would expect that if this is to be avoided, Section 22
would be a peremptory section instead of a negative
section that persons may carry on the business of
milk selling. You will have an exclusion from the
operation of Section 3 rather than an exclusion under
Section 23 because the blank section is section 3 which
just says that no person shall sell any milk.

If it is the intention that nobody shall sell any
milk etc., then proper drafting would be to have an
exclusion Clause after Section 3 saying that a person
licenced as a milk seller would be excluded from the
provision of Section 3.

I am wondering, Sir, if the Upper House the
Other Place did not argue that no person shall
sell or offer for sale I would particularly ask the
Prime Minister to look at this. I say so because a
dairy keeper need not be licencedunless he is selling
milk. He can keep cows as long as he does not offer
milk for sale.

Mr. Speaker, I am trying to point out to the
Prime Minister that the phrase or expression "dairy
keeper" is enshrined with "licenced dairy keeper"
because dairy keeper is defined in the interpretation
Clause and Section 3 says that certain persons must
not sell milk; but the amendment of the Other Place
is not tautologous. It only talks about a certain class
of dairy keeper who must sell milk.

What the Other Place has sent down is not mean-
ingless. It will permit persons at large to sell milk
subject to the other provisions of the Act. If the pro-
visions of the Act mean that nobody can carry on the
business of selling milk unless he has alicence, that
would prevent shops from selling milk. Ido not think
that the matter is by any means as straightforward
as the Prime Minister has suggested.

The amendment of the Other Place has in fact,
as I see it, Mr. Speaker, made Section 3 less re-
stricted to the general rate to sell milk and therefore
made it unnecessary to be followed up by any ex-
clusion Clause.
6.15 p.m.

In fact, I would say with respect, Mr. Speaker, the
amendment of the Other Place, although it changes
various of the senses of the Bill, is certainly pro-
duces a- more logically drafted whole than the sec-
tions originally passed by this honourable House. I
would suggest to the Prime Minister that this matter
be investigated by a Select Committee. It seems
small, but there is more to it than ten minutes'
debate can contain in my respectful view.

Mr. Speaker, you can be certain that having read
3, who could absolutely be certain that 22 really per-
mits a supermarket to sell milk? When you have a
milk seller's licence, you are still a person selling
milk without a diary keeper's licence. Let the Prime
Minister consider this point.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: I am saying that a Super-
market cannot sell milk unless it has a milk seller's







1685


licence. Why should a supermarket which makes
more money than the small man with the tot and
bucket, be exempted from a milk seller's licence
when the man who has a push cart, or a snowball cart,
has to pay for a licence? Of course a supermarket
has to get a milk seller's licence. They may not
like to be deemed to be milk sellers, but they are the
same milk sellers as if they were pushing a snowball
cart and selling milk, as far as lam concerned.

This Bill is not a discriminatory Bill. (Asides..)
I cannot agree with the hon. member. I said at the
beginning that we will get lawyers getting up and
arguing, but after discussionwith some of the mem-
bers in the Other Place, andafter canvassingopinion
around people who are concerned here, I came to the
conclusion that they had made a mistake. Some
members on the other side agreed and some dis-
agreed. Some members on this side may have some
doubts, but that is why you have Law Courts. As far
as I am concerned, it does not make sense to say
that "every dairy keeper ....." because the moment
you tamper with "dairy keeper", it means that you
come under the umbrella of the Act and he is
exempted from the same Clause 23 because he is a
dairy keeper.

I pointed out also that the other difficulty was that
you may have a man who is selling milk from cows
which are not maintained or owned by him. The cows
may not be maintained by him, but they may be
lodging with him and he may be selling the milk. We
do not want anybody, who has a cow which has not
been tuberculin-tested, to sell milk. After all, this
is the mischief which the legislation is trying to
prevent. It is trying to prevent people from doing
somebody a favour and selling him a pintof milk out
of a dirty pint pot, if they are not normally selling
milk. If they want to give away the milk, and the
person takes the milk at his own risk, that is a dif-
ferent matter. The moment you accept money for
milk and then go and tell the Magistrate that you do
not sell milk as a rule but you were only doing Miss
Jones a favour, we do not want that kind of slipshod
dairy keeping any longer. If you want to sell milk,
you must sell milk; if you want to give it away, you
must give it away; but you cannot do both.

This is not a matter on which I have a mandate
from the electorate. This is a question of common-
sense. Any lawyer, as you know, Sir, can get up on
the most abstruse point and entertain a Court for a
whole day, or a day and a half, without being sup-
ported by the judgment which is handed down.

Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. and learned member for
St. Thomas may resume.

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: The point I wish to
make is very short, and I would ask the Prime Min-
ister to look at this. If we read Section 3, it does not
say that a milk seller is exemptedfrom itsprovi-
sions. The original Section 3 says: "No personshall
sell or offer ......" It does not say: "No person other
than a licensed milk processor or licensed milk seller
......" That is really the point, Mr. Speaker, that I


would ask the Prime Ministerto consider. He may be
having a little difficulty considering it at the moment,
but that is really the drafting which I think was cor-
rected, although I agree with the Prime Minister that
the sense in which it was corrected by the Other
Place would open the door to many.abuses which this
legislation is intended to stop. But even when you have
a milk seller's licence and this is what I am ask-
ing the Prime Minister to look at you are still a
person who is selling or offeringfor sale milk without
having been granted a dairy keeper's licence. If you
use the word "person", then "person" would actually
include a milk seller. Even. a milk seller with a
licence will still be a person who does not have a
dairy keeper's licence. That is why I say that the
amendment by the Other Place restores logic, and
we would have to do more than just restore our ori-
ginal wording.

Mr. Speaker, I cannot see that there is anything
in this Bill. I have looked at Part IV, but Part IV is
not drawn up in such a way as to make it clear that
milk sellers can also sell milk without being dairy
keepers, because Part IV says that dairy keepers do
not have to get milk seller's licences. You should
have a section saying that milk sellers do not have to
get dairy keeper's licences. That is the point, and
this is why I would ask the Prime Minister to look at
the matter again.

Mr. Speaker, if we really have to take the legis-
lation and I agree with every word the Prime
Minister said; I am sure he was speaking then as a
lawyer. I agree with every word he said about the
necessity for following precedents in your drafting
which have been judicially interpreted in a series of
published Reports to which you can refer in the
future for assistance. I do not think we should be
inventing legal expressions here in this House just
because we want to change the language, but this
point must be made somewhere. The same exemption
which is granted to a dairy keeper from having a milk
seller's licence should be granted to a milk seller
from having a dairy keeper's licence, and that is what
is missing in the Bill.

If the Section is going to be passed in our
original form: "No person shall sell or offer for
sale ......", then Section 23, or a section drawn on
similar lines, should follow, because if you have
"No person ......." this is the widestpossible Clause
you can have. It should go something like this: "Un-
less he has been first granted by the appropriate
authority a dairy keeper's licence, no person should.."
and then "Persons who have beeni granted licences
as milk processors or milk sellers shall be exempted
from the provisions of this Section." That is what is
needed in my submission, Mr. Speaker. I would
really welcome some indication from the Prime
Minister that the point is taken and appreciated.

Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Speaker, I have listed to
both sides of the argument here, and lam wondering
whether the Prime Minister could not get together
with the Opposition I am speaking from a layman's
point of view. Since I have been in here I have never







1686


voted on anything that I was not sure of. Both argu-
ments sound logical to me, and I am wondering wheth-
er a postponement for about fourteen minutes would
be enough time for the legal brains to get together
and do something about this matter. There are a lot
of other laymen who feel the same way. I am going
to move that we postpone this matter for fifteen
minutes.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, I do not see
that the postponement of this matter for fifteen
minutes is going to resolve a difficulty which has
arisen by the intervention of the senior member for
St. Thomas.
6.25 p.m.

You can go on a whole week in a Law Court with
that kind of argument without getting anywhere. I
would be more inclined to try to findout the reason-
ing by a kind of joint Committee of the House and the
Other Place, but I really do not see that a fifteen min-
ute adjournment at this stage is going to help us in
the peculiar circumstances to resolve something that
is a difficulty. The reason why I have been stalling
is because I have in front of me the Act which is
being repealed.

Mr. SPEAKER: Actually there are two hon. mem-
bers on their feet.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: If the hon. member gives
way, he can rise again.

Mr. MOTTLEY: If I sit, I would not be able to
rise again.

Mr. SPEAKER: If the hon. member gives way,
he may rise again so long as I am alive and in the
Chair.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: I just wanted to point out
to hon. members that Ihave in front of me the Dairies
Act, 1941--7, and in the Dairies Act it says in Sec-
tion 7: "No person shall sell or offer to sell or ex-
pose for sale or otherwise dispose of for human
consumption; or use in the manufacture of products
for sale for human consumption the milk of any cow
which to his knowledge" etc. etc. Then section 8 says:
"No person shall for the purpose of the sa!e or
advertisement of any milk" etc. etc.

In every single section which I had checked be-
fore in the interval between the motion for the ad-
journment and today in the original Dairies Act by
which we had been guided, they have usedthe expres-
sion "no person", and in every other Act that has a
criminal section they have never used the self-
identifying description; they have always used the
expression "no person", and right through the
Dairies Act you will find in every penal clause they
say that no person shall do this, and no person shall
do that. There is a definition in the Act of "Dairy"
and "Dairyman", and yet at no stage do they say
"no dairyman shall"; they say "dairyman" includes
an occupier of a dairy, a cow-keeper and a purveyor
of milk". Now after you have licensed a dairy-


keeper, you will then have regulations saying how a
licensed dairy-keeper shall keep his dairy, the kind
of sanitary contiditions you would expect and the
regulations, but before you know who he is, you can-
not say "no dairy-keeper shall sell milk", unless he
has been deemed to be a dairy-keeper.

As I said, if members want to make assurance
doubly sure and thresh this out with a Committee from
the Other Place if this is possible, I am quite will-
ing to satisfy them by having a joint Select Commit-
tee of this House and the Other Place to iron out the
difficulty.


Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move
that this be postponed and that a joint Committee of
this House and the Other Place be appointed to con-
sider the amendments by the Other Place.


Mr. LYNCH: I beg to second that.

Mr. SPEAKER: I think that may have to be made
in two motions. One is that further consideration of
these amendments be now postponed.


Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Speaker, I begto move that
further consideration of these amendments be now
postponed.

Mr. LYNCH: I beg to second that.


Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, on a point
of order, I am asking Your Honour to repeat it be-
cause I took it for granted that we all had agreed
that we could not even argue with the Other Place on
their amendment; so I would just like Your Honour
to read again what the proposal now is. You could
sit for years with them and none of them could change
the views of any of us around this Table.


Mr. SPEAKER: I accept the motion of the hon.
senior member for Bridgetown that further con-
sideration of these amendments be now postponed.
The question that further consideration of these amend-
ments be now postponed was put and resolved in the affirma-
tive without division.

Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move that
a Message be sent to the Other Place asking for the
appointment by them of a Committee to meet with a
Committee of this House jointly to consider amend-
ment to this Bill.

Mr. LYNCH: I Beg to second that.

The question was put and resolved in the affirmative
without division.

Hon, E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, Ishouldlike
to propose for that Committee the following: the Hon.
Leader of the Opposition; the hon. senior member
for Christ Church; the hon. senior member for St.







1687


Thomas; the hon. senior member for Bridgetown;
the hon. junior member for St. Philip; the hon.
senior member for St. Andrew, and I would be
pleased if Your Honour would associate yourself with
the Committee.

Mr. SPEAKER: I would be very happy so to do,
but I wonder if the Hon. and Learned Prime Minister
would also sit.

Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Speaker, I think the Hon.
Prime Minister has such strong views .......

Hon. E. W. BARROW: I have such strong views,
I had better stay out of this.

Mr. MOTTLEY: If you have such strong views,
you might be able to convince both sides.

I beg to move that the Hon. Prime Minister be
added to that Committee.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, I beg to
move that the Committee be composed of the hon.
senior member for St. Thomas and the hon. senior
member for St. Andrew, and nobody else, and they
would agree in five minutes.

Mr. SPEAKER: I will ask the following hon.
members of the House to serve on this Committee:
the Hon. and Learned Prime Minister; the Hon. and
Learned Leader of the Opposition; the Hon. and
learned member for St. Thomas; the hon. senior
member for Bridgetown; the hon. senior member for
St. Andrew, the Hon. and Learned memberfor Christ
Church and His Honour the Deputy Speaker, andwith
that Committee I have been asked to be associated,
and accede to the request of the House if that be their
wish.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, ona point
of order, would I be in order to suggest to the
majority of that Committee to stay away from the
meeting and let it boil down to three or four?

Mr. SPEAKER: I am afraid the hon. member
would not be in order to suggest that members of
the House who are appointed to perform a certain
duty be guilty of dereliction of duty. Any such mem-
ber would be deserving of the severest censure of
the House. Accordingly I declare those members
duly appointed to serve on this Select Committee,
and I urge them to attend the first meeting of this
Committee; I will have it summoned with the mini-
mum of delay, if I have to summon it myself.
6.35 p.m.

We are notifying them that we are appointing a
Committee of ourselves to meet a Committee of
themselves. We have to await whether they will agree
or not.

The next Order of the Day ...... (A PAUSE).

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: I beg to move that the
House do now adjourn for a date to be fixed by the
Prime Minister.


Mr. SPEAKER: The Hon. Prime Minister can
merely propose a date. He cannot fix it. This House
is not run by any hon. member except the Speaker.
(Laughter and Cheers).

SUGAR AND FANCY MOLASSES PRODUCTION
AND EXPORT CONTROL (AMENDMENT)
BILL

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, I am asking
leave to take Order No. 3, standing in the name of the
hon. senior member for St. Andrew.

Mr. SPEAKER: The Hon. and Learned Prime
Minister is seeking the leave of the House to take
charge of an Order standing in the name of the hon.
senior member for St. Andrew, and if there is no
objection, leave will be granted. (After a pause).
There appears to be no objection, and leave is granted
to the Hon. and Learned Prime Minister to move
the second reading of a Bill to amend the Sugar and
Fancy Molasses Production and Export Control Act,
1940.

At this stage, Mr. SPEAKER left the Chair and Mr.
DEPUTY SPEAKER took the Chair.


Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Deputy Speaker, this is
a very short Bill. It is one which amends section 5
of the Sugar and Fancy Molasses Production and
Export Control Act of 1940 No. 3, so as to vest in the
Cabinet the power to approve the salaries and condi-
tions of employment of the Officers and servants
appointed thereunder fixed by the Sugar Production
and Export Control Board under subsection (2). All
expenses in connection with the operations of this
Board have to be voted out of the Consolidated
Fund, and that is the main reason why we are sug-
gesting that the Board should not have unfettered
discretion in fixing the salaries and conditions of
employment of its Officers. I beg to move that this
Bill be now read a second time.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: I beg to second that.

The question that this Bill be now read a second time
was put and resolved in the affirmative without division.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: I beg to move that Your
Honour do now leave the Chair and the House go into
Committee on this Bill.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: I beg to second that.


The question was put and resolved in the affirmative
without division.



Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER left the Chair and the House
went into Committee on the Bill, Mr. YEARWOOD in the
Chair.


The three Clauses of the Bill were called and passed.







1688


Hon. E. W. BARROW: I beg to move, Mr.
Chairman, that you do now report the passing of this
Bill .u Committee.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: I beg to second that.

The question was put and resolved in the affirmative
without division.


The CHAIRMAN reported and DEPUTY SPEAKER re-
sumed the Chair and reported accordingly.


On separate motions of Hon. E. W. BARROW, seconded
by Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON, the Bill was read a third time and
passed.

6.45 p.m.

Mr. SPEAKER: The next -

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, there is one
other outstanding matter on the Order Paper under
Government Business, but the Minister in charge is
out of the territory on Government Business. There-
fore this concludes Government Business for the
day. It not being the Statutory hour, I have to move
the adjournment. I propose, because of the shortness
of the Notices given today and the fact that there is
going to be a parliamentary visitation during the in-
terval of time to which I propose to adjourn until
Tuesday, 18th June, at 12 noon. (A MEMBER:
2 o'clock)

Hon. E. W. BARROW: The reason why Ipropose
the adjournment to the earlier hour is because mem-
bers of the Other side do not like the invasion oa
Private Members' Business. (A MEMBER: 2 o'clock)
(A MEMBER: 2.30)

Hon. E. W. 2ARROW: I accept the amefdmen-:.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Mr. Speaker -

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker -

Mr. SPEAKER: Is the Hon. .Leader of the Oppo-
sition giving way?

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, speaking on the
adjournment, I not too long ago understood that the
House is to be adjourned for three or four weeks.
The time for Private Members' Business is running
out. The Hon. 'Prime Minister should give us an
assurance that he will deal with Private Members'
Business on a particular day so as to catch up and do
not allow it to be running out like that.

Sir, this is a very clever way of clearing the
Order Paper of Private Members' Business. lam
nothing to do with conferences and meetings. I am
nothing to do with that. I am something to do with the
people's business. Now we are adjourning until the
18th of the month and the remainder of Private
Member's Business will be wiped off. That is not fair


to us. This is a first class way for the Government
to be getting away with this thing every week. What is
to prevent us from doing the people's business? I am
not in favour.


Mr. SPEAKER: May I just -

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: I will say what the last
member said, but perhaps from a different angle. If
we agree to this hour of 2.30, the Government should
give us the assurance that it will inno way hinder the
work of the Opposition. That is, if we meet at 2.30 we
do not have to stop Private Members' Business at
3.30. The hours ought to be changed. In short, if we
agree to 2.30 the three weeks adjournment should not
count as far as the three months after which an
Order must go off the Order Paper.


Hon. E. W. BARROW: The nearest item under
Private Members' Business that comes to lapsing is
one by the junior or senior member for St. Peter,
which is on the 19th, the day after the House meets.
It cannot possibly lapse. What I suggest is that the
hon. member for St. Peter ask that this Order be
considered as Order No. 1 of Private Members'
Business.


The reason why I am moving the adjournment
for three weeks I have given two of the reasons -
most of them are working people and there is not
sufficient business to justify a meeting next week
and there is this visitation of which I have spoken.
The Government is acting in completely good faith.
I moved the adjournment to 12 noonandtheysaid
2.30. Now you get the Opposition talking about taking
away time. Only one item is in danger of lapsing.


Mr. SMITH: Why then not meet next Tuesday and
clean off the slate?


Mr. SPEAKER: I am afraid that the hon. senior
member for St. Joseph has already spoken on this
motion for the adjournment. I speak not only on behalf
of myself, but on behalf of the Hon. Deputy Speaker.
You will appreciate that today fortnight there is no
meeting of the House in view of the Presiding Officers
Conference.


So far as Private Members' Business is con-
cerned, hon. members should always remember that
even if automatically one Order must go off by virtue
of the existing Standing Orders, it may be reintro-
duced at the very next meeting of the House. It does
not die. It only sleepeth. It is not dead; it merely
sleepeth.

The question that the House do now adjourn until Tues-
day 18th June, 1968, at 2.30 p.m. was put and agreed to
without division and Mr. SPEAKER adjourned the House
accordingly.
6.55 p.m




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