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Group Title: Official gazette, Barbados
Title: The official gazette
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Permanent Link: http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00076861/00067
 Material Information
Title: The official gazette
Physical Description: v. : ill. ; 33-42 cm.
Language: English
Creator: Barbados
Publisher: s.n.
Place of Publication: BridgetownBarbados Published by authority
 Subjects
Subject: Law -- Periodicals -- Barbados   ( lcsh )
Politics and government -- Periodicals -- Barbados   ( lcsh )
Genre: periodical   ( marcgt )
 Notes
General Note: Caption title.
General Note: Supplements issued for some of the numbers.
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Bibliographic ID: UF00076861
Volume ID: VID00067
Source Institution: University of Florida
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oclc - 12594829
notis - AFC6434

Table of Contents
    Main
        Page 97
        Page 98
        Page 99
        Page 100
        Page 101
        Page 102
        Page 103
        Page 104
    Supplement: House of assembly debates for 14th May, 1968
        Page A 1634
        Page A 1635
        Page A 1636
        Page A 1637
        Page A 1638
        Page A 1639
        Page A 1640
        Page A 1641
        Page A 1642
        Page A 1643
        Page A 1644
        Page A 1645
        Page A 1646
        Page A 1647
        Page A 1648
        Page A 1649
        Page A 1650
        Page A 1651
        Page A 1652
        Page A 1653
        Page A 1654
        Page A 1655
        Page A 1656
        Page A 1657
        Page A 1658
        Page A 1659
        Page A 1660
        Page A 1661
        Page A 1662
        Page A 1663
    Supplement: Senate debates for 20th July, 1967
        Page B 164
        Page B 165
        Page B 166
        Page B 167
        Page B 168
        Page B 169
    Statutory Instruments Supplement No. 7; S.I. 14: Labour welfare fund (displaced sugar factory) (Scotland and Colleton factories) regulations, 1969
        Page B 170
Full Text











NO. Io


ffinjial


S(atfte


PUBLISHED BY AUTHORITY

BRIDGETOWN, BARBADOS, 3RD FEBRUARY, 1969


TABLE OF CONTENTS
Gazette Notices
Annual Statement required under Section 12 of Sugar
Industry (Rehabilitation, Price Stabilization
and Labour Welfare) Act, 1947.................. 101
Annual Statement by Sugar Industry Reserve Board
under section 18 of Sugar Industry (Rehabili-
tation, Price Stabilization and Labour Welfare)
Act, 1947.............................................. 100
Application for Liquor Licence at District "A":
Christopher T. Codrington........................ 99
Coin Continuation Board as at 31stDecember, 1968 103
Executorial: Leotta Moseley............................ 98
Income Tax Notice: Income Tax Deductions at
Source (P. A. Y. E.)................................ 104
Industrial Incentives Act: Re Electrical track power
distributions Systems etc................. 99
Re Business Machines Stationery.............. 99
Patent: "Freeze Dried Coffees Process& Product" 97
"Freeze Concentration of Coffee Extract" 98
"Improvements in & relating to Electrical Cables 98
Resignations: Michael O. Graham, Clerical Officer;
Mrs. Dorothy Jordan, Clerical Officer;
Miss Wynel Silas, Clerical Officer............ 97
Statement of East Caribbean Currency Authority,
Assets and Liabilities as at 31st December, 1968 102
House of Assembly Debates for 14th May, 1968
Senate Debates for 20th July, 1967
Legal Supplement
S.I. 1969 No. 14: Labour Welfare Fund (Displaced Sugar Fac-
tory) (Scotland and Colleton Factories) Regulations, 1969

NOTICE NO. 99
GOVERNMENT NOTICES
Resignation
Miss Wynel Silas, Clerical Officer,
Agricultural Credit Bank, has resigned from
the Public Service with effect from 12th No-
vember, 1968.
(M.P. P. 8641)


Resignations
Mrs. Dorothy Jordan, Clerical Officer,
resigned from the Public Service with effect
from 1st February, 1969.
(MP. P. 7514)
Michael O. Graham, Clerical Officer,
General Post Office, resigned from the Pub-
lic Service with effect from 21st January,
1969.
(M.P. P. 6620)

NOTICE NO. 91 (second publication)
PUBLIC NOTICE

(Patents Act, 1903-7, Sec. 10)
NOTICE is hereby given that STRUC-
TURES SCIENTIFIC AND INTERNATIONAL
CORPORATION of 630 Fifth Avenue, New
York City, New York, in the United States of
America lodged in this Office an application
and Complete specification for a patent un-
der the Patent Act 1903 (1903-7), for an in-
vention for "FREEZE DRIED COFFEES
PROCESS AND PRODUCT."

The said Specfication has been accepted
and is open to public inspection at this Office.

G. A. A. MAYNARD
Registrar (Ag.)


2zk 10


(I e









OFFICIAL GAZETTE February 3, 1969


NOTICE NO. 96 (second publication)

PUBLIC NOTICE

(Patents Act, 1903-7, Sec. 10)

NOTICE is hereby given that LINDSAY
ERCELL RYEBURN GILL of No. 17 High
Street, Bridgetown, Barbados lodged in this
Office an application and Complete specifica-
tion for a patent under the Patent Act 1903
(1903-7), for an invention for "IMPROVE-
MENTS IN AND RELATING TO ELECTRI-
CAL CABLES."

The said Specification has been accepted
and is open to public 'inspection at this Office.

G. A. A. MAYNARD
Registrar (Ag.) .


NOTICE NO., 78 (third publication)

PUBLIC NOTICE

(Patents Act, 1903-7, Sec. 10)

NOTICE is hereby given that STRUC-
TURERS SCIENTIFIC AND INTERNATION-
AL CORPORATION of 630 Fifth Avenue, New
York City, New York in the United States of
America lodged in this Office an application
and Complete specification for a patent under
the Patent Act 1903 (1903-7), for an invention
for "FREEZE CONCENTRATION OF COF-
FEE EXTRACT."

The said Specification has been accepted
and is open topublic inspection at this Office.

G. A. A. MAYNARD
Registrar (Ag.)


NOTICE NO. 4 (second-publication)


NOTICE


ARe the Estate of


LEOTTA MOSELEY


Deceased


NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that all per-
sons having any debt or claim upon or affect-
ing the Estate of Leotta Moseley late of 11
Hanover Street, Bath, England, who died in
England on the 31st day of July, 1965, are
hereby required to send particulars of their
claims duly attested to the undersigned in
care of Yearwood & Boyce, 14 James Street,
Bridgetown on or before the 15th day of
February 1969, after which date I shall pro-
ceed to distribute the assets among the per-
sons entitled thereto having regard only to
the debts and claims of which I shall them
have had notice and that I shall not be liable
for the assets distributed to any person of
whose debt or claim I shall not have hadno-
tice at the time of such distribution, and all
persons indebted to the said estate are re-
quested to settle their accounts without delay.


Dated this-9th day of December, 1968,


RUTH WEEKS
Executrix of the Estate of
Leotta Moseley,
deceased.


OFFICIAL GAZETTE


February 3, 1969









February 3, 1969 OFFICIAL GAZETTE


NOTICE NO. 100

THE INDUSTRIAL INCENTIVES ACT, 1963

(Section 6)

NOTICE
The Honourable Prime Minister and Min-
ister of Finance pursuant to section 6 of the
Industrial Incentives Act, 1963, hereby gives
notice that he is about to be asked to consider
whether for the purposes of the abovemen-
tioned Act, a company to be registered as
Concord (West Indies) Ltd. should be declared
as an approved enterprise in respect of
Electrical track power distribution Systems,
electrical lighting fittings, fluorescent light
fittings, at a factory to be situated at Broad
Street, Bridgetown.
Anyperson interested in the manufacture
or importation of the products in question who
objects to the proposed Company being de-
clared an approved enterprise for the pur-
poses of the Industrial Incentives Act, 1963,
shouldfoward to the Director (Ag.) Economic
Planning Unit, Office of the Prime Minister
and a copy to Manager, Barbados Develop-
ment Board to reach him not later than
Saturday, 8th February, 1969 a statement in
writing setting forth the grounds of his ob-
jection.
NOTICE NO. 101
THE INDUSTRIAL INCENTIVES ACT, 1963

(Section 6)
NOTICE
The Honourable Prime Minister and Min-
ister of Finance pursuant to section 6 of the
Industrial Incentives Act, 1963, hereby gives
notice thathe is aboutto be asked to consider
whether for the purposes of the abovemen-
tioned Act, a company to be registered as
Precision Papers (Barbados) Ltd. should be


declared as an approved enterprise in re-
spect of Business Machines Stationeryat a
factory to be situated at Bay & Shurland
Streets, St. Michael.

Any person interested in the manufac-
ture or importation of the products in ques-
tion who objects to the proposed company
being declared an approved enterprise for the
purposes of the Industrial Incentives Act,
1963, should forward to the Director (Ag.)
Economic Planning Unit, Office of the Prime
Minister and a copy to Manager, Barbados
Development Board to reach him not later
than Saturday, 8th February, 1969, a state-
ment in writing setting forth the grounds of
his objection.
NOTICE NO. 102

LIQUOR LICENCE NOTICE

(Act 1957-40)


APPLICANT:


OCCUPATION.
ADDRESS:
PREMISES:


CHRISTOPHER T.
CODRINGTON
Skop-keeper
Massiah Street, St. John
Bottom floor of a two
storey wall building
situated at Bay Street
known as Starline
Supermarket.


Dated this 27th day of January 1969.

Signed: C. T. CODRINGTON
Applicant.
This Application for a Retail Licence
will be considered at a Licensing Court to be
held at Magistrates' Courts Dist "A" on
Thursday the 13th day of February 1969 at
9 o'clock a.m.

GEORGE COLLYMORE
Clerk to Licensing Authority.


February 3, 1969


OFFICIAL GAZETTE









OFICA GAZTT Feay ,16


ANNUAL STATEMENT REQUIRED TO BE PREPARED BY THE SUGAR INDUSTRY
PRICE STABILIZATION RESERVE BOARD UNDER SECTION 18 OF THE
SUGAR INDUSTRY (REHABILITATION, PRICE STABILIZATION
AND LABOUR WELFARE) ACT, 1947

For the Financial Year 1st August, 1967 to 31st July, 1968


(a) the balance brought forward from the previous year:

(b) the amount of the levy paid by the Sugar Production and Export Con-
trol Board to the Price Stabilization Board:

(c) the number of tons of sugar and the number of wine gallons of
fancy molasses on which the levy was paid: ..
182,650.976 tons of sugar @ $2,60 per ton 2,018,763 wine gallons of
fancy molasses @ $2.60 per 290 wine gallons

(d) revenue from investments of the Price Stabilization Reserve Fund as
follows:-
(i) Bank interest and dividends
(ii) Gain on principal repayment of investments:

(e) reimbursements to the Price Stabilization Reserve Fund:-
Labour Welfare Fund (Price Stabilization Reserve Fund
Reimbursement) Regulations, 1966 Cumulative Total

(f) amounts paid from the Price Stabilization Reserve Fund under
the authority of Regulations made by the Price Stabilization

Board: -
(i) Displaced Sugar Factory Workers
Regulations 1965/1966 Cumulative Total

(ii) Repairs to Bulk Sugar Store
Regulations, 1967 .

(g) the expenditure incurred in carrying out the provisions of the Act:


(h) the balance to be carried forward:


7,938,360.57



492,991.80


432,507.75
1,572.18




219,168.00


219,168.00



3,875-.32

2,867.80


8,858,689.18


Sgd: E.C. PILGRIM
Chief Agricultural Officer,
Chairman.


OFFICIAL GAZETTE


February 3,. 1969








--Februarv 3 1969 AZ T


ANNUAL STATEMENT REQUIRED UNDER SECTION 12 OF THE SUGAR INDUSTRY
(REHABILITATION, PRICE STABILIZATION AND LABOUR WELFARE) ACT, 1947

For the Financial Year 1st August, 1967 to 31st July, 1968



(a) the amount of levy paid by the Sugar Production and Export
Control Board to the Sugar Industry Capital Rehabilitation
Reserve Board: .... $910,138.68
Bank Interest .... 3,059.83 $ 913,198.51

(b) the balance carried forward from the previous year:
Current Account .... $ 5,870.34

Deposit Account .. .. 48.100.00 $ 53,970.34


(c) the levy was paid on:
182,650.976 tons sugar @ $4.80 per ton 2,018,763 wine
gallons fancy molasses @ $4.80 per 290 wine gallons.

(d) the amount paid from the Rehabilitation Reserve
Fund to manufacturers and cane growers:
(e) the expenditure incurred in carrying out the provisions
of the Act:


(f) the balance carried forward:
Current Account
Deposit Account


$ 3,829.49
35,000.00


$ 922,682.36


$ 5,657.00


$ 38,829.49


Sgd: E. C. PILGRIM
Chief Agricultural Officer
Chairman.


OFFICIAL GAZETTE


February 3 1969









EAST CARIBBEAN CURRENCY AUTHORITY

ASSETS AND LIABILITIES AS AT 31ST DECEMBER, 1968


LIABILITIES


Demand Liabilities:


EC $


EC $


Notes in Circulation 42,962,797


Bankers' Deposits

Bankers' Balances



General Reserve



Other Liabilities


36,750,000


125,480


79,838,277


3,009,454



1,862,085


ASSETS
External Assets:
Current Accounts and
Money at Call in London


United Kingdom Treasury Bills


Other United Kingdom
Government Securities .


Currency Issue Accounts
with Banks in Barbados *..


Central Bank of Trinidad and
Tobago Notes* ... .


EC $


33,211,901


26,121,660



17,466,254



3,859,202



63,000


British Caribbean Currency Board Notes

Government Local Debentures


Local Treasury Bills

Other Assets


EC$ 84,709,816


76,000


2,607,050


568,103


736,646

EC $84,709,816


(Proportion of external assets to
demand liabilities 101.1%).
* Convertible into sterling on demand.

N. L. SMITH
Acting Managing Director.


January, 23, 1969


EC $


80,722,017










Feb..uary 3, ,1969,OFFICIALGAZETTE


COIN CONTINUATION BOARD



BRITISH CARIBBEAN CURRENCY BOARD COIN IN CIRCULATION

AS AT 31ST DECEMBER, 1968


(Pursuant to the British Caribbean Currency Agreement 1964, Article 10 (3))


Antigua ... .

Barbados

Dominica ...

Grenada

Montserrat ..

St. Kitts/Nevis/Anguilla

St. Lucia ... .

St. Vincent ...

Guyana ... ...

Trinidad & Tobago


$ t

... 365,000.00

1,295,239.50

... ... 172,075.00

... ... 272,575.00

... ... 37,250.00

... 179,400.00

... ... 191,700.00

... ... 161,600.00

... ... 476,817.00

... ... 928,821.00


"Proof Sets"


$


















2,674,839.50



1,405,638.00

4,080,477.50

1,870.00

$4,082,347.50


N. L. SMITH

Acting Executive Commissioner

Coin Continuation Board.


February 3, 1969


OFFICIAL GAZETTE


.I. ... ...









OFFCIL AZETEFerar 3,16


INCOME TAX NOTICE


INCOME TAX DEDUCTIONS AT SOURCE

(P.A.Y.E.)


Consequent on the enactment of the Income Tax Act, 1968, new
P.A.Y.E. Tax Tables. are being compiled.

2. All employers are hereby required to continue to make P.A.Y.E. de-
ductions by reference to the current Tables until such time as the new ones
are ready for distribution.


W. A. GITTENS
Commissioner of Inland Revenue.


Government Printing Office.


OFFICIAL GAZETTE


February 3, 1969











THE


House of Assembly Debates




(OFFICIAL REPORT)


SECOND SESSION OF 1966 71


HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY

Tuesday, 14th May, 1968

Pursuant to the adjournment, the House of As-
sembly met at 12.00 o'clock (noon) today.

PRESENT
His Honour J. E. T. BRANCKER, Q.C., F.Z.S., (Speaker);
Mr. K. N. R. HUSBANDS; Hon. J. C. TUDOR, M.A, (Leader of
the House); Mr. R. ST. C. WEEKES, J.P.; Mr. W. R. LOWE; Hon.
N. W. BOXILL, (Minister of Communications and Works): Mr.
C. .. E. HOPPIN, J.P.; Mr. J. B. SPRINGER and Mr. H. B.
ST. JOHN, LL.B.
Prayers were read.
Mr. SMITH entered the House and took his seat.

CHAPLAIN WELCOMED BACK

Mr. SPEAKER: Before the business of the House
is further proceeded with, on behalf of myself, and I
am sure on behalf of all of us, I take pleasure in wel-
coming back our Chaplain, Rev. F. A. Cayless, who
has been on sick leave and who is now very much
better and is almost completely restored to health.

CONGRATULATION TO JUSTICES
OF THE PEACE

Mr. SPEAKER: I also take pleasure in congratu-
lating all hon. members who, since our last meeting,
have had conferred on them the honour.of the Com-
mission of the Peace. .(Cheers) ,.

EXPECTED ARRIVAL OF UNITED
KINGDOM PARLIAMENTARIANS

Mr, SPEAKER: I have also to informhon. mem-
bers that I have been advised that the party of mem-
bers of the United Parliament who will be presenting
to us our Independence Gift on behalf of their Par-
liament the gift of a library is expected to arrive
in Barbados on the 8th June for a weekend during
which the presentation will take place.

UNCERTAINTY OF TIME OF MEETING
OF THE HOUSE
Mr. SPEAKER: There are no Minutes for con-
firmation, I must also express my regret to hon.


members at the apparent uncertainty or confusion as
to the time of today's meeting. The House was last
adjourned until 12 o'clock noon today and for some
extraordinary reason, the Order Papers were first
issued stating the time as 2.30 o'clock p.m. That, I
know, caused bewilderment amongst hon. members. I
trust that that is not the reason why there is not as
full a turnout of members as one normally sees. I
express my regret. I can do no more.

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, I do not know if I am
in order, I appreciate your regret in this matter; but
would you let us know who is responsible for that?

Mr. SPEAKER: I assume that the hon. senior
member for St. Joseph rose on point of order, but
it can only be, as that experiencedhon. member, that
experienced parliamentarian knows, the Clerks-at-
the-Table, unless there was an error in printing, and
the Government Printer who had been notified of 12
o'clock noon, put 2.30 o'clock p.m., in the first in-
stance.

Mr. SMITH: Whether it be the Clerks-at-the-
Table or. the Government Printer, regardless of who-
ever it may be, I am hoping that this will not occur
again. Should it occur again, I am not taking it so
lightly. Someone must be punished for it.

Mr. SPEAKER: I share the hon. member's hope
that this and other similar errors will never recur.

BILL RETURNED FROM THE OTHER PLACE

Mr. SPEAKER: I have the honour to inform the
House that I have received from the Other Place, the
Dairy Industry (Regulation and Control) Bill, 1968,
which has been passed with certain amendments
thereto made by that Chamber.

Messrs. LYNCH and YEARWOOD entered the House and
took their seats.
PAPERS LAID

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, on behalfof the
Hon. Prime Minister, Minister of Finance and Minis-
ter of External Affairs, I am commanded to lay a
Statement of sums of money paid over to the Ac-
countant | General by the Commissioner of Police
during the quarter ended 31st December, 1967;


. i _







1635
-- i ,


Also, the Quarterly Digest of Statistics for Sep-
tember, 1967.

On behalf of the Hon. Minister of Health and Com-
munity Development, I am commanded to lay the Local
Government (Pensions) (Amendment) Regulations,
1968.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, Iam com-
manded to lay the following: -

The Financial Statement of the Barbados Market-
ing Corporation for the year ended 30th June, 1966;

Also, the Financial Statement of the Barbados
Marketing Corporation for the year ended 30th June,
1967.

GOVERNMENT NOTICES

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, onbehalfof the
Hon. Prime Minister, Minister of Finance and Minis-
ter of External Affairs, I beg to give notice of a Reso-
lution to place the sum of $5,500 at the disposal of
the Government to supplement the Estimates 1968-69
Part I Current, as shown in the Supplementary
Estimates, 1968-69 No. 2, which form the Schedule
to the Resolution;

Also, a Bill to grant an additional sum of money
out of the Consolidated Fund and appropriate the
same for the service of the Island for the year ended
on 31st March, 1968.

On behalf of the Hon. Minister of Health and Com-
munity Development, I beg to give notice of a Bill to
amend the Mental Health Act, 1951.

REPLIES LAID

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I beg to give
notice that the Oral Replies to the following Parlia-
mentary Questions are ready:-

The Oral Reply to Parliamentary Question No.
152, asked by the hon. junior member for St. Peter;

The Oral Reply to Parliamentary Question No.
161, asked by the hon. senior member for St. James.

The Oral Reply to Parliamentary Question No.
162, also asked by the hon. senior member for St.
James.

Mr. HINDS entered the House and took his seat

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, I beg to
give notice of a Bill to amend the Sugar and Fancy
Molasses Production and Export Control Act, 1940.


Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I beg to give
notice of my intention to move the House into Com-
mittee of Supply at its next meeting in order to deal
with the money Resolution for $5,500 of which notice
has just been given.


REPLIES LAID

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, I beg to give
notice that the Oral Replies to the following Parlia-
mentary Questions are ready:-

The Oral Reply to Parliamentary Question No. 29,
asked by the hon. junior member for St. George;

The Oral Reply to Parliamentary Question No.70,
asked by the hon. senior member for St. James;

The Oral Reply to Parliamentary Question No.
79, asked by the hon. junior member for St. James;

The Oral Reply to Parliamentary Question No. 92,
asked by the hon. senior member for St. James.
12.25 p.m.

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the ap-
propriate Minister:-

Is it a fact that meat stored at the Barbados Mar-
keting Corporation was found unfit for human con-
sumption by Health Inspectors?

2. If the answer to the above is "yes", can
the Minister state whether the spoilage was due wholly
or in part to the negligence of any employee or em-
ployees of the B.M.C.?

3. Will the Minister also state if such em-
ployee or employees was or were suspended from
his duties as a result of any investigation carried out
into the matter?

4. If the answer to (3) is in the affirmative,
will the Minister state if the suspended employee or
employees received any pay during the period of sus-
pension?

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the ap-
propriate Minister:-

What is Government's policy with respect to
making appointments to the Post of Education Offi-
cer in the Ministry of Education?

2. What is Government's policy with respect
to seconding officers or teachers to such posts in
the Ministry of Education?

3. Was a Mr. L. S. Wellington of the Staff of
Harrison College due for secondment to the Ministry
of Education to serve as an Education Officer?

4. Has the Post of Education Officer ever
been advertised as vacant or has there been an ad-
vertisement or advertisements calling for appli-
cants to fill the post?

5. When was such an advertisement published
and where?

6. How many applications were received as a
result of such advertisements?








1636


7. Were applications received from suitably.
qualified teachers with experience?

8. Was Mr. L. S. Wellington one of the appli-
cants for the post?

9. If the answer to No. 3 above is in the af-
firmative, was the secondment a recommendation of
the Public Service Commission?

10. If the answer to No. 9 is in the negative,
will the Minister state who made the recommenda-
tion for secondment?

11. Were the powers of the Public Service
Commission in anyway usurped in the matter of
seconding Mr. Wellington to this post?

12. If the answer to No. 11 above is in the af-
firmative, will the Minister state who is guilty of such
conduct?

13. Has Mr. L. S. Wellington taken up the
post?

14. If not, why not?

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the ap-
propriate Minister:-

Does "diplomatic immunity" extendedto foreign
diplomats, their wives and families, cover the actions
of the wife of the United States Ambassador to Bar-
bados in bringing a dog into this country without per-
mission through Seawell International Airport?

2. Would Government state to what extent
the life of the dog population in this country has been
exposed to rabies and other communicable diseases
since February 15th, this year when the offence re-
ferred to above was committed?

3. Is it a fact that Government directed the
services of the Government Veterinary Officer be
available to the wife of the United States Ambassador
to Barbados, in sending the dog under reference out
of the Island?

4. Has Government learned that the United
States? Ambassador, is laying claims to such extra-
territorial rights as there are under the terms of
the Vienna Convention?

5. Will Government state what representa-
tion was made to a Minister of this Government on
the subject of bringing this dog into the country prior
to the -commission of this offence?

6, Will the Minister take such steps as he
deems necessary to see that the law is complied
with in respect of the illegal entry into this Island of
the dog above referred to?

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the ap-
propriate Minister:-


2. Would Government give urgent cons idera-
tion to the above with a view to encouraging the boys
and girls from the adjoining parishes in becoming
actively engaged in Government's diversification
scheme whilst carving a future career for them-
selves and others and aiding in the local production
drive?
12.35 p.m.

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the ap-
propriate Minister: -

1. Has a dietitian been appointed to the Staff
of the Queen Elizabeth Hospital?

2. If the answer to the above is in the affir-
mative, has the officer assumed duty? If so, when?
If not, why not?

3. If the answer to No. 1 is in the negative,
are the duties of dietitian being performed at this
Institution? If so, by whom?

4. When last was the post advertised as being
vacant and what were the minimum qualifications
stipulated?

5. Were any applications received? If so,
from whom and how many such were received?


6.
applying?


What were the best qualifications of those


7. How long has the Queen Elizabeth Hospital
been without the services of a dietitian as qualified
academically and practically as Government seeks?

8. What are the academic qualifications of
the officer now performing the duties of dietitian and
how many years' practical experience does the offi-
cer have to his or her credit?

9. If the post was advertised, what was the
minimum salary attached thereto?

10. What salary is being paid to the officer
now performing those duties; and for how long has
the officer been serving?


11.
to anyone
future?


Has Government offered training abroad
to qualify for filling this post in the near


12 If not, why not?


As acidity of soil and elevation have shown that
lands at Farley Hill, St. Peter, with the necessary
water supply are suitable for the cultivation of pine
trees, would Government consider experimenting
with such lands there as could be made available for
the cultivation of the CUPRESSUS or CYPRUS specie
of pine, a pine which would be ready for the Christ-
mas tree market in this Island after a short period
of two years?







1637


13. Does Government consider a nutritionist
as a qualified dietitian?

14. If the answer to No. 13 is in the affirma-
tive, on what principle does Government apply in
making the assessment?


15.
vacant?


How long has this post of dietitian been


Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the ap-
propriate Minister:-

Is Government aware that the cane -fire vigilance
squad of the Royal Barbados Police due to carry out
special duties in the Northern Parishes of this Island
on the night of Tuesday, April, 23rd, 1968, did not
leave Central Police Station at the scheduled hour?

2. Is Government aware that the long delay
was due to an outbreak of near-riot conditions, firstly
in the barrack room, and secondly in a police van
and thirdly in the yard at Central Police Station in
which the policemen involved engaged in torchlight-
smashing, baton-tossing and stone-throwing?

3. Does Government realise that men who
were on duty and due for relief at the scheduled hour
were thus delayed and caused to work extra hours
whilst this exhibition of bad manners was taking
place?

4. What steps have been taken, if any, to pre-
vent a recurrence?

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the ap-
propriate Minister:-

Would Government give consideration to raising
the school-leaving age to 18 years for all children
attending Senior Elementary Schools in this Island?

2. Would Government seek to increase the
staffs and equipment at such schools with a view to
having the children benefit from instructions given
according to their aptitudes, interests and abilities?

3. If the answer to the above is in the nega-
tive, would the Minister please state why?

Mr. HOPPIN: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the
Minister of Communications & Works:

Is Government aware that there is no standpost at
Bayley's Alley, St. George?

2. Is Government aware that the nearest
standpost to the said district is three-quarter miles
distant?

3. Is Government aware that Sweet Vale No.
1 Pumping Station is situated in the said district?

4. Will Government take steps to have a
standpost erected at Bayley's Alley as soon as possi-
ble?


Mr. HOPPIN: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the
Minister of Communications & Works:

Is Government aware that the road leading
through Bayley's Alley, St. George, is nowwell-nigh
impassable?

2. Will the Government take steps to have the
present road repaired, or a new road constructed, as
the case may be, in the said district?

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the
appropriate Minister:-

Is Government aware that of 808 candidates from
Barbados who took English Language in June 1967 of
the University of London Examination for the General
Certificate of Education (Overseas) Ordinary Level,
the passes revealed a mere 19.9%?

2. In view of the fact that some of the can-
didates who took this exam are candidates in Gov-
ernment approved schools and Government-aided
schools, would the Minister offer an explanation as
to what could have contributed to this lowpercentage
of passes in English Language?

3. Would the Minister compare the English
Language results with the French results which re-
turned a 26.6% pass from 94 Barbados entrants in
the same June, 1967 exam from the saidUniversity?

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the ap-
propriate Minister:-

Will the Minister cause a bath and latrine to be
constructed at Westmorland, St. James, for the use
of the inhabitants of the said district?

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the ap-
propriate Minister:-

Is the Minister aware that the Fairchild Street
and Cheapside Markets are already too congested to
cope with the trafficking in meat, vegetables and fruit
that daily takes place there?

Will the Minister take steps to have the said
Markets extended?

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the ap-
propriate Minister:-

Will the Minister state whether Bim Beverages
Limited has been granted the right by Government
or any Government sponsored agency to make use of
artificial sweeteners in the manufacture of soft
drinks?

2. What is Government's policy as to the use
of artificial sweeteners in the productions of soft
drinks?


Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the Min-
ister of Communications and Works:-







1638


Is the Minister aware that there is a water mahi
and a standpost at the road known as Bridge Gap,
Black Rock, St. Michael, but that no water service is
yet available to the residents of the said district?

2. Will the Minister see to it that a water
service is provided without delay?

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the ap-
propriate Minister: -

Will the Minister state whether any part of the
pier attached to the Hilton Hotel is rented to a private
individual or firm?

2. If the answer is in the affirmative, will
the Minister state the name of the person or firm, and
the terms and conditions of the rental?

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the ap-
propriate Minister: -

Will the Minister lay or cause to be laid as soon
as is practicable the long promised Statement of the
Commissioner General for Barbados and Guyana as
to the activities of the booth of which he was in charge
at Expo' 67?

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the ap-
propriate Minister:-

Will the Minister state how many trips were
made by the Commissioner General for Barbados
and Guyana in his capacity as such (a) from Barbados
to Canada and (b) within Canada itself in connection
with Expo' 67?

2. Will the Minister state the costs of such
trips?

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, on a point of
order. I should like Your Honour's ruling. A Question
No, 110, relating to this same matter, was asked by
the hon, and learned senior member for St. Thomas
and answered two weeks ago. The reply was printed
and circulated with today's documents. I wonder, in
the light of this, whether Your Honour would allow an
identical question, or the same question bearing on an
identical topic?

Mr. SPEAKER: I will give the matter my con-
sideration, and will rule as soon as possible: as soon
as I have had an opportunity of so considering it.

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the ap-
propriate Minister:-

Will the Minister state the total amount of money
paid to the Commissioner General for Barbados and
Guyana as subsistence allowance during the trips to
Canada in connection with Expo' 67 and the rate per
day of such allowance?

2, Will the Minister state the total cost to this
Government of the Hotel and other accommodation
paid on behalf of the Commissioner General for Bar-


'bados and Guyana during his trip to Canada in con-
nection with Expo' 677

3. Were the monies paid in respect of the
said accommodation additional to or included in the
subsistence allowance above referred to ?

BILLS READ A FIRST TIME

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move
that a Bill to grant an additional sum of money out of
the Consolidated Fund and appropriate the same for
the service of the Island for the year ended on 31st
March, 1968, be now read a first time.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: I beg to second that.

The question was put and resolved in the allirmative with-
out division.

12.45 p.m.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move
that a Bill to amend the Mental Health Act, 1951, be
now read a first time.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: I beg to second that.

The question was put and resolved in the affirmative with-
out division.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, I beg to
move that a Bill to amend the Sugar and Fancy Mo-
lasses Production and Export Control Act, 1940, be
now read a first time.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: I beg to second that.

The question was put and resolved in the affirmative with-
out division.

THE CIVIL ESTABLISHMENT (TEACHERS)
(AMENDMENT) ORDER, 1968.

Mr. SPEAKER: Order No. 1 under Government
Business stands in the name of the Hon. and Learned
Prime Minister, and it is to move the passing of a
Resolution to approve the Civil Establishment
(Teachers) (Amendment) Order, 1968.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, this Order
made under the Civil Establishment Act, 1949 merely
seeks to add three posts to the Teaching establish-
ment in view of the requirements of the School for
the Deaf. It is a very simple Order, and there are
three teachers, as I said before, required: two
teachers and one Head teacher.

I beg to move that this Resolution do now pass.


Hon. J. C. TUDOR: I beg to second that.



The question was put and resolved in the affirmative with-
out division.







1639


THE PENSIONS (AMENDMENT) (No. 2)
REGULATIONS, 1968

Mr. SPEAKER: The next Order of the day stands
also in the name of the Hon. and Learned Prime
Minister, and it is to move the passing of a Resolution
to approve the draft Pensions (Amendment) Regula-
tions, 1968.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, this Reso-
lution seeks to rationalise a difference which exists
between the Public Employees Pensions Act of 1961
and the main Pensions Act of 1947 in order that con-
tinuous service should be counted for purposes of
pensionability under the 1947 Act as is now the case
under the 1961 Act.

It is a comparative simple measure, Mr. Speaker
and I beg to move tLat this Resolution do now pass.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: I beg to second that.

The question was put and resolved in the affirmative with-
out division.

THE MOTOR VEHICLES AND ROAD
TRAFFIC (AMENDMENT)
REGULATIONS 1968

Mr. SPEAKER: The next Order of the Day stands
in the name of the hon. junior member for St. Thomas
the Hon. Minister of Communications and Works, and
it is to move the passing of a Resolution to approve
the Motor Vehicles and Road Traffic (Amendment)
Regulations, 1968.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, this Resolution
before the House is one which should have been here
some years ago, but for reasons known best to the
powers that then were, it was never implemented.
Those of us who were around town going to the Em-
pire and Olympic Theatres will remember that when
pictures like "King Kong" and other cowboy pictures.

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, I
cannot hear the Minister.

Mr. SPEAKER: I do not regard that as a point of
order, but I will ask the hon. member if he would try
and speak a little nearer the microphone so that we
can all hear him well. We like to hear the hon. Min-
ister.



Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, I thinkwhat I
was saying is quite clear. I do not even need a micro-
phone. Anyway, I said that this Resolution before the
House should have been here quite some time ago,
but those who were in power then did not see fit to
bring it. Then I went on to say that those of us who
were in town duringthe 1930's and early Forties when
such pictures as "King Kong", Richard Dixand some
of the other cowboy pictures were being shown at the
Olympic and Empire Theatres will remember that
there used to be a human cry to see the stampede that
took place at the entrances, and quite a number of
--"-le in my opinion used to indulge in watching peo-


ple fighting and tearing off eachother's clothes to get
into the theatre or into almost any place. This is
something which maybe certain people in the com-
munity then thought to be a good thing, being what we
were, just misfits in human society, and therefore
they never thought it fit to pass legislation regulating
the entry into these public houses as well as into
public transport, and as a result of this we have this
bad behaviour handed down through the years. I re-
member that one night a man was killed at the Olym-
pic Theatre because the pressure outside was too
great for him and he suffocated.

The Barbados community is one that always
seems to be somewhat complacent until something
severe happens to shock it out of its state of com-
placency, and overnight people want a complete
change. I am not saying that this is what prompted
this Resolution to be before this Chamber, but some
of us here will remember that during the early part
of this year, speaking under correction, two young-
sters who were trying to board a bus as it left the
stand opposite Rediffusion, were mixed up in the
crowd, one boy fell and the bus went over his chest.
The other boy was in a very bad condition, but
Valhalla was not ready for him yet; so he has re-
cuperated.

When people come here from overseas and see
the way in which residents of Barbados have to catch
a bus, it is really amusing to them, and sometimes
you see tourists taking pictures of these things to
carry back and show their families. What is more
pathetic, Mr. Speaker, is that the same Barbadian
who resents all his life the idea of waiting his turn to
get on a bus leaves here and goes to Britain, a com-
pletely foreign and alien country to him, and will
stand up at the bus stop until he is frozen to death.
He would be something like Purdy Fallar, and he is
not going to rush in front of anybody to get on to a
bus.
12.55 p.m.

If he can go out of his country and show such
good manners, there is absolutely no reason why he
cannot show some good manners in his own country.
From time immemorial we always say that charity
begins at home, and there is absolutely no reason
why manners should not begin at home also. Mr.
Speaker, we all were appalled at this youngster losing
his life in the way in which he did, because we do not
like to see people lose their lives, and it may be be-
cause he was so young he was cut off without seeing
much of the wonders of the world. That is why we are
here today asking the House of Assembly to approve
this Resolution, and I am asking the residents of Bar-
bados, since this is their country as well as my
country, to make this country a good country for all
of us. I am appealing to all and sundry, the robust
and the strong, the meek and the mild, the halt, the
lame and the blind, that when they go to a bus stop
and they happen to find someone there waiting for
them that person may be in as much a hurry as he
or she who has reached the bus stop is to get in
line. There is absolutely no reason for doing other-
wise, as Sparrow has said: "Don't fret; everybody
goin' get."







1640


If we all line up at the bus stop, even if you do.
not catch the bus you wanted to catch, most likely
somebody will pass down and give you alift in a car,
or there will be another bus that you can get. It is
better to wait for fifteen minutes and catch a bus
properly than to rush in one minute and lose a foot,
or it may be a life. Losing a life at times is not so
bad; but when you become permanently maimed and
disabled and you are poor, then you become a burden
not only to yourself and your family, but to the entire
community. I am sure that none of us will want to see
any of our loved ones being mangled in this fashion.

As the Regulations have set out, any time you
find more than six persons at a bus stop, it is their
duty to form a line or not more than two lines, one
behind the other in single file. If you go to England
you do this, and if you go to the outside world, you
do this, and there is absolutely no reason why you
cannot do it here. This is not an imposition which I
would consider burdensome. I want to send this out
to all and sundry, that if you contravene the law, you
will be punished severely for it. (Mr. HINDS: Se-
verely?) Yes, you must pay money in the Court. You
might be punished in the Court, or you might be pun-
ished by nature, that is, you may go rushing to get
into a bus and you may fall under the bus; so you are
still paying a severe price. You are paying severer
price than if you are hailed before a Magistrate: but
it is our duty, and especially for the members of
this Chamber, it is about time that we become a little
more responsible to the community and stop being
led by the community. Since they have put us here
to lead them, it is time that we start to lead them. It
is not for the sake of a vote that we are going to make
people feel that they can do wrong things and they are
right. If your child does something wrong, you will
chastise it, and there is absolutely no reason why you
cannot tell your friend that he is wrongwhen he does
something wrong. I will read out the Motor Vehicles
and Road Traffic (Amendment) Regulations, 1968;
they are as follows:

"In exercise of the powers conferred upon him
by section 7 of the Motor Vehicles and Road Traffic
Act, 1937, the Chief Technical Director, Ministry of
Communications and Works, hereby makes the fol-
lowing Regulations -

1. These Regulations may be cited as the
Motor Vehicles and Road Traffic (Amendment) Regu-
lations, 1968.

2. Regulation 53 of the Motor Vehicles and
Road Traffic Regulations, 1952 is hereby amended
by inserting immediately after paragraph (1) the fol-
lowing as paragraphs (lA) and (1B) -

"(lA) Without prejudice to the provisions of
paragraph (1), when six or more persons are
waiting to enter a motor omnibus at any
stopping place or terminus, they shall -

(i) form and keep a queue or line of not
more than two abreast and so as not
to cause any obstruction;


(ii) comply with the lawful directions of
any member of the Police Force in
uniform.

(1B) No person shall take or attempt to take
any position in any such queue or line other-
wise than behind the persons already form-
ing the same, nor shall any person enter or
attempt to enter a motor omnibus before any
other person desiring to enter the same mo -
tor omnibus who stood in front of him in
such queue or line."

3. The Motor Vehicles and Road Traffic
(Amendment) Regulations, 1965 (L.N. 25 of 1965) are
hereby revoked."

With those few words, Mr. Speaker, Ibeg to move
that this Resolution do now pass.

Mr. LOWE: I beg to second that.

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, the Minister opened
his remarks by saying that those who were in power
did not see fit to pass a Resolution of this nature, and
more than once I have warned the Minister that it is
not what he does, but it is howhe does it. He is trying
to do something in the interest of the public, and he
should be only too glad to see that he has got the first
opportunity to do it. Since the ones who were in power
did not see fit to do this, I am wondering if any ac-
cidents through people trying to rush andgetfirst on
the bus, have occurred since his Government was in
power. I wonder if any happened, and if it is only one
that caused him to bring down this Resolution. The
Minister must be careful in saying these things be-
cause they were in power now for nearly ten years,
and it is only now at the very last hour that he has
also seen fit to bring down this Resolution. I am sure
that school children have lost their lives in the bus
stand, far less losing a limb during his time, but yet
the others did not see fit to do this. Therefore, as to
those children who lost their lives and their limbs,
the Minister could have prevented that by bringing
down a Resolution of this sort.
1.05 p.m.

This Resolution could be in here if he was really
thinking in terms of the people. It could have been
inside here from the very week that he was made a
Minister. He knew that there would be no trouble to
have a Resolution of this nature passed; but he was
thinking so much about what the others did, that he
wanted to follow suit and waited back until deaths
occurred.



Now, Sir, queueing is nothing new because it hap-
pens in most countries. The Minister says that you
will be punished and punished severely if you should
violate these Regulations. I am sorry that the Min-
ister did not have here set out in these Regulations
what would be the punishment. I am wondering if he
knows what will be the punishment because it is not
here in the Regulations or in the Resolution, and it
should be here for us to see.







1641


Mr. Speaker, Sir, now that we are going into this
matter we should go into it more fully and do not
come here with it in apiece meal way.Queueingupis
one thing, but there are a lot of things that can cause
trouble and cost life and limb relative to the hopping
on and off of buses.

The Regulations say a police in uniform. Now,
you have bus poles all over the country. Is it the in-
tention of the.Minister to place a policeman at each
bus pole to see that these Regulations are carried
out? The Minister knows the travelling public as well
as I do. Especially on Saturdays when some of us can
be very merry or inotherwords 'have a few up', at a
bus stop people are already there, but one of these
people comes up and rushes in front of them so as to
hop the bus first, and there is no policeman there.

Now, Sir, these Regulations will be of no use as
far as that bus pole and the majority of the bus poles
in the country are concerned. You will meet some
trouble because except a policeman is in uniform -
the travelling public is told by this Resolution of only
a policeman in uniform whom you will have to obey.

I feel, Sir, that some authority should be vested
in these Inspectors they have at Highways and Trans -
port. I think they have Grade 2 Inspectors, but the
.Minister will know whom I mean better than I myself
when I say Grade 2 Inspectors who are charged with
certain responsibilities. I think that they should be
able to ask one to get out of a bus or ask a bus to
carry on if they see people behaving badly. I am
speaking under correction.

Why not give these same Inspectors some au-
thority to keep law and order in the bus stand and at
these bus poles? Here it is that in the Fairchild
Street Bus Stand you will be having people queueing
up, but there may be no policeman in uniform. I am
wondering to know how the Minister or the Director
expect to keep law and order in the absence of the
-Police. While you may have policemen at these bus
stands in the City area, you have people who will have
to queue up at all the bus poles.

You have Inspectors all around the country in-
specting buses andpassengers because they are look-
ing to see how many passengers are inthe buses and
how much money is in the bag. Yet these Inspectors
cannot .keep order. People are not going to queue up
although they should. I have seen it in England that a
particular individual tried to pull a fast one on some
passengers. I saw a particular man who was not a
policeman in other words he did not have on a police
uniform.

Before I go further you may have a policeman in
his private clothes; but you say here in the Regula-
tions a policeman in uniform. So a police officer who
is in his private dress has no authority either. That
is how this is drafted, and that is how the Director
has passed it on to the Minister for his approval.

Well, I saw this particular person come up and
ask that chap to come'outandhehad to fall out of the


line and go at the entire end. The bus came along
and picked up as many as it could, and all the while
this particular chap was at the end of the line until
another bus came.

Now these Regulations only say that a policeman
in uniform is to see that you must queue up in twos
and nothing more. Taking it from the Regulations and
from the Minister that is all there is to it that the
law of the land is that there must be queueing up in
twos and that is the endofit; but if a man, no sooner
than the bus arrives, runs to the front and gets into
the bus, what direction is there, what Rule,Order or
Regulation, what law can you charge him under for
breaking the Regulations? If I am wrong, the Minister
can correct me. Don't let me go too far.

I feel that this is only a start. They may be wait-
ing to see how the public will react. I say that because
I see that the Government are really timid about doing
certain measures in here for the protection of the
people. I can see that clearly and I will prove it.

Now, Sir, there are no Regulations or anything
to tell us about the authority of the Grade 2 Inspec-
tors who see that the buses come in and go out on
time. They are there for that purpose; but I think
that the authority mentioned in these Regulations
should be more vested in them than inthe police be-
cause they are practically on the spot. The police may
be there occasionally. Now, Sir, that is where I am
saying that the Government is trying now to pass cer-
tain measures and leave out certain measures which
will protect the public.
1.15 p.m.

Now, Sir, I am going to say this regardless of
what it may cost me. It cannot cost me anything, be-
cause to lose my seat I will lose nothing. But this is
for the protection of the country. Here it is: you are
called upon to queue up, say, at a bus stop at Water-
ford. You are called upon to queue up and get on the
bus in an orderly manner, but while you are waiting
there some person may drive along in a motor ve-
hicle that is not road worthy in other words, it has
no brakes and no horn, in some instances, and wipe
off the queue completely. That may be done through
faulty brakes, through faulty steering or otherwise.
Would that be any help to the Government or the
public?




You are trying to protect them from losing a
limb, but you are not trying to protect them from
losing their lives. The lives of the driver, the owner
of the vehicle, the occupants of the vehicle as well
as the people who are waiting on a bus, may be in
danger. The Ministry, or this Government, is trying
to protect the pedestrians on the street. Every in-
dividual who owns a public service vehicle must have
it inspected, and that is a very wise thing to make
sure that vehicles are roadworthy. On the other hand,
you allow another person to take up anything with four
wheels and drive it along the road and do any kind of
damage.







1642


Mr. Speaker, I am not against such people. It.
will be said and it can be said that I do not want cer-
tain people to own a motorcar. I can remember,
speaking subject to correction, that when Third Party
Insurance was first introduced, the Oppositionatthe
time severely criticised the Government by saying
that they wanted to get the people off the road and they
did not want certain people to own motor cars. We
have to make up our minds to accept such criticism.
Now every birth causes a pain, but the pain does not
last forever. The pain must be soothed at some time
- sometimes in no time. I have not heard of any per-
son going out of existence as a result of Third Party
Insurance, because it is to protect the people.

As I understand it, Sir, there are two kinds of
Third Party Insurances. Third Party means that the
Insurance Company will pay the other side, but not
you. I wonder whether the Government knows that,
after a vehicle has reached a certain age, the Insur-
ance Companies usually inform its owner that they
can no longer insure the vehicle comprehensively.
The Insurance Companies themselves have seen the
danger in it, and they are telling people that they can
only insure certain vehicles in accordance with the
law. In my opinion, if legislation for insuring vehicles
was not on the Statute Books, the Insurance Compa-
nies would not insure vehicles at all. It is the Gov-
ernment's 'duty to take what I am saying here
seriously, and see to it that we protect the travelling
public.

Mr. SPEAKER: I think the hon. member has dealt
sufficiently with that point. May I suggest that he now
return to the queue?

Mr. SMITH:Yes, I can return to the queue. I think
the Regulations mentioned something about buses. It
is not a bus without passenger; so do not expect me
to talk about queueing and not about the people. You
are rot asking us to call on animals to queue up. We
are not queueing up animals; we are queueingup hu-
man beings the travelling public -and my reference
is in connection with the travelling public. I may have
referred to the question of insurance in order to make
my point valid so that the Government may knowwhat
I mean,'but we are dealing with the people.

Now that this Government has seen the wisdom
more wisdom than the last Government, takingthe
Hon. Minister's word for it Iam trying now to help
them, if they need my help. I do not think they would
need my help, but I want to help the people, if not the
Government. I want to get things straight, Sir, be-
cause I do not want it to be said, or I do not want you
to think, that I am travelling out of my bounds. It is
stated here: The Motor Vehicles and Road Traffic
(Amendment) Regulations; so if I refer, Sir, to motor
vehicles and roads although it did not mention "on the
road" this document says "and" and I am saying
now "on". I still feel that I am in order when I deal
with this one.

I am dealing with the Motor Vehicles and Road
Traffic Act, and this is the point that I want the Min-
ister to see: authority should be vested in the in-


I


,spectors to keep law and order. The Inspectors
should be given authority so that if one wants to break
the line and go in front of any passenger I am not
talking about the policeman in uniform they could
take the necessary action. The policeman who is not
in uniform would not have any authority either, as far
as I am concerned. The Inspectors should be able to
tell a particular offender to "fall out",and if he re-
fused to "fall out" he should not be allowed to get on
the bus. It will be necessary to do something of that
sort in order to keep law andorder. If one knows that
if one disobeys an inspector one will not reach one's
destination by the time one wants, one will obey the
Inspector.
1.25 p.m.

In other words,he wbuld not break the rule at all,
no matter how late he is for work. Now I think the Min-
ister should take all this into consideration and let
the Director or whoever is responsible forthis know
that he did very little here. I feel that this Resolution
should be deferred and brought back in a proper man-
ner after considering all the points I have raised,
and from the looks of the Hon. Prime Minister and
the Deputy Prime Minister, it seems to me that they
halfway agree with me. If that is so, the Minister
should be called upon to defer this until today week
and bring it back giving certain authority andpowers
to these Inspectors so that we could not get chaos in
the bus-stand, because you may get more chaos in
the bus -stand now with these Regulations as they are
than if you did not have them. There are some fire-
side lawyers who know the law backwards who would
go there and make trouble because a policeman in
uniform is not there, and would have no regard for
the conductor, driver or inspector of the bus, and
you cannot tie a policeman to every bus pole. This
may not happen in the City, butatother bus poles in
Oistin Town, Holetown or Speightstown where you
have a lot of people collectingat a bus pole, if there
is no policeman in uniform there, we would be no
wiser.

I feel, Mr. Speaker, that at the present moment
this is only a start, and more power should be given
to the inspectors.

Another point is this: I understand thatyouhave
these Land Rovers, and they are all licensed as pri-
vate vehicles, but some are beingusedpublicly. I feel
that some distinction should be made that if one has a
Land Rover which is only doingprivate work just like
a private car, and another is doing a public service -
and I see some of them doingapublic service they
should be inspected too if they are doingpublic work.
I am drawing these things to the Minister's attention
under these amendments and regulations.

Another point, Mr. Speaker, is that at certain
points certain connections and installations are being
made in the road, and where you have busy streets,
no work should be allowed at peak hours. I do not
know if any of the Ministers has ever had cause to
travel or meet an appointment, and through the in-
stallation of these things in the road during peak
hours he has had to wait practically ten or fifteen







1643


minutes before he could get the green light. At the
peak hours the work could be slowed down and the
people could easily catch up afterwards, because if
they are going to finish workingat 4.30 p.m., it would
not be more than one hour in my opinion, and they
could afford to rest off until that time and put in the
other hour's work after, because you have to think in
terms of the travelling public at the particular time.
These are things that you have to think in terms of.

Now, Sir, the last point is amatterfor the Min-
ister. I have raised this point in this House already
that the Inspectors at Highways and Transport have
to work a whole day, turning out to work like any
other Civil Servant and leaving like any other Civil
Servant, but at any time of the night, on Sundays and
bank holidays these men are called out to do their
public duty. It is not fair to call on these men after
hours and not pay them for it. Now the night belongs
to even the prisoners. You cannot go to the Glendairy
and call out the prisoners after the time has passed.
These prisoners belong to the Queen, the King or
whoever it is, and you cannot call them out after they
turn in, but these men are called out all hours of the
night and are not paid for it. You have other Civil
Servants who get paid for what they do extra. I drew
this to the Minister's attention some time ago, and
up to now nothing has been done to remunerate these
people for their services, and I am saying here and
now, and I would be glad if it appears in the Press,
that these men should not come out after they have
turned in and let the Government do what it likes with
them. I am saying to these people on the floor of this
House not to turn out until they are paid for the work
they do after hours.

Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. member has made that
point. Ithink he has gone far enough on that point for
the purpose of this Resolution.

Mr. SMITH: Yes, sir. I am trying to get the Motor
Vehicles and Road Traffic Act working perfectly well.
Mr. Speaker, I know howyou may feel in this matter,
but in certain things you must allow a little latitude.

Mr. SPEAKER: I have allowed; that is what I was
pointing out.

Mr. SMITH: Sir, you-have not allowed sufficient
yet. It is a little bit more that I want to get this mat-
ter straight. I know that you feel these men should be
paid, and I believe;you are very much surprised to
know that they are not paid, because you are ordered
out too, but I feel that a berry is there for you when
you leave your nice warm bed.

Mr. SPEAKER: I am nowfully seisedofthe point
that they are not paid.

Mr. SMITH: When you have to leave your nice
warm bed with your charming wife, I do not think you
are doing it for nothing. If you expected that nothing
was in it, you would not go; but these men know that
nothing is in it, but they have to go because they are
afraid .of losing their jobs. The Government should
not set such an example by callingonpeople in their


j


own time. The police have to protect the community
and they have agreed to these conditions, but there
are doctors some of whom do not come out after
hours, no matter how many people may die, because
you cannot hear them; they take the receiver off the
cradle.
1.35 p.m.

These people should be paid. I can tell you that
they go out with a certain amount of fear, because
sometimes you go to an accident especially when both
sides "have got up a few", and when the Inspector
arrives and he is not on his "p's" and "q's", there
is a possibility that he will get some lashes. The
policemen have to go out and I presume that they are
being paid, or at least they get one day out of every
four by way of off duty; but these Inspectors do not
get any off days. I am drawing to the attention of the
Minister for the second time that it is not fair, and
he should check on it and see that these people are
paid. In the same way that the Director took it upon
himself to draft or submit these Regulations to the
Minister for his approval, why cannot the Director
draft the same thing and see that these men are paid?
I am sure about that, but it is not fair and I am ap-
pealing to the Minister and I am saying that these
men should not go out. Let the Minister and the
Director go out because all of them are responsible
for it. I would not say that the Government is re-
sponsible for it, because I believe that if a Resolution
of such a nature should go before the Cabinet for the
purpose of paying these men, I doubt that the Cabinet-
would turn it down. It is the Director and the, Minis -
ter, because the Minister knows about it. I draw it
to his attention and he failed to carry out his duty,
and if he fails to do something, I will do something
else.

Mr. HUSBANDS: Mr. Speaker, Iamnotgoingto
be long. I am just going to reiterate the point raised
by the hon. member on my right who has dealt with
sub-paragraph 2 of paragraph 2 of these Regulations
which reads that persons should comply with the law-
ful directions of any member of the Police Force in
uniform. I think that the idea behind the force of this
part of the Regulations is that members of the public
who are waiting for any buses might not be embar-
rassed while they are trying to form a queue. In
other words, if twelve people form an orderly queue
but one or more of them tries or try to interfere with
the formation of that regular queue, what is going to
happen? Provision is made in sub-paragraph 2 of
paragraph 2 of these Regulations that if policeman
is there, those who would form an ordinary queue
might not be embarrassed; but, as has been pointed
out, more often than not, no policeman will be pres-
ent. Nowadays, if a policeman is found on the beat in
a particular area, you do not see one again I speak
of Speightstown for quite awhile. Of course, after
4 p.m., the frequency of visits becomes less, because
nowadays, everybody knows that, to a large extent,
the Police Force depends on Motor transport. They
depend on motor transport, and not on foot duty as
used to be the case years ago. Well, we have pro-
gressed, but how often will it be possible for a police-
man in uniform to go to the assistance of the orderly







1644


formation of a queue or assist in the orderly re-
formation of a queue? Let us use our commonsense.
You will get some individual, probably in high spirits,
or he is just an anti-social chap, and he tries to
break up the queue. The Regulation does not make any
provision for a policeman or a constable to go to the
assistance in that case. It might. Evenif the Regula-
tion made provision for the assistance of an Island
Constable to go to the assistance of the formation of
the queue, that would be something. I say this, that
this is such a wide loop that you can run something
bigger than a bus through it. To depend upon the in-
frequent presence of a policeman in uniform, as
specified in this sub-paragraph, to preserve the
orderly formation or the re-formation of an orderly
queue is really saying too little. It is really demand-
ing too little.

I do not think that this is going to work very well;
I think that we are going to have some trouble, be-
cause too infrequently are policemen to be found in
places like the rural districts of this Island at bus
termini. I think that this provision needs tightening
up. I think that the Minister would do well if he would
see to it that there is a further tightening of this wide
loop through which something bigger than a bus may
enter. That is all I have to say, and I say it in all
good faith and, of course, hoping to assist the Minis-
ter in this respect.

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, I wish to add a few
words in respect of what my colleagues, the hon.
senior member for St. Peter and the hon. senior
member for St. Joseph have said, but in so doing,
I made a note here and it tended to disturb me when
the Minister, while introducing this Resolution, men-
tioned places like England, and I imagined he would
have made reference to a place like North America
where people will queue up until they freeze in order
to board transport. I wonder if the Minister has ever
taken the opportunity to go downstairs in a subway
station and see people not queueing, but husbands are
pushing away wives in order to get into the train, and
husbands are pushing away sons and daughters in or-
der to get into the train. However, I am in favour of
queueing up. I wish to make that abundantly clear,
but it is not fair to say that the Government which
was once in power never thought it fit to bring down
such a Resolution. You may as well argue on the
other side, that the present Government took some
seven years and months to bring down this one, and
if this were a priority, they would have brought it in
immediately.
1.45 p.m.

What I wish to draw to the Minister's attention,
just as an observation, a suggestion, to the Hon.
Minister, is that it would be a very wise thing that
the Police Force be cautioned to use their discretion
in this matter. You have children boarding buses
after school on evenings to get home. I am quite
sure that many children would not be aware of the
fact that there is a regulation whereby a Policeman
in uniform can make anarrest because they would be
breaching the law.


What I feel would be the ideal thing supporting
my colleague the hon. senior member for St. Joseph -
would be to extend or to increase the services of the
Inspectors or Sub-Inspectors, whatever you may care
to call them, but increase the Transport Board's force
whereby on evenings, in particular around the peak
hour, they would be in a position to direct. Put them
in uniform and give them some degree of authority
whereby they would be able to direct those persons
who are about to board buses that it is in their right
to queue up, rather than using the Police immediately.

What also I think is very important, and the Min-
ister should bear this in mind, is that they must ex-
tend, increase the bus service during these peak
hours, because when a man leaves work at 4 o'clock
on evenings and goes into the bus stand and he is
going to hear that a bus going to St. Joseph or St.
Andrew the last bus is only carrying 40 people,
he cannot help rushing to get into the bus.

I am not objecting to queueing. I am supporting
the Resolution from the point of view of queueing up;
but what I want to draw to the Minister's attention
forcibly is that you will have to get the Police to use
their discretion in this new venture.

I would suggest to the Minister that there should
be an increase either in the Inspectors or in people
who will go into the bus stand on evenings and direct
the travelling public that they should use these queue-
ing lines. If you just go along with the idea that you
pass a Resolution and it becomes law tomorrow, some
unscrupulous policeman might walkup and arrest two
or three children trying to get into a bus because
they know no better. If he wants to make an arrest,
he might arrest one of these children. Of course,
they are leaving loopholes for defence lawyers, es-
pecially the traffic experts, to earn what my friend
the hon. member for St. Joseph, would call a "berry"
more.

I would suggest that you increase the number of
officers or whatever you care to call them and let
them go into the bus stands on evenings where you get
this big rush to the buses and direct people to queue
up. Over a period of time I am sure that the Bar-
badian public will adjust itself to the matter of queue-
ing up. The Minister may say that when you go to
Canada you find people queueing up. There may be
some truth in that; but I have seen them rushing to
get into subways, trains and buses in North America
and in the Caribbean Islands.

Although I support the Resolution, it would be a
good idea for the Police to use their discretion in
this matter. Secondly, increase the bus service by
way of making more trips and thirdly increase the
staff of the Transport Board for the purpose of as -
sisting Inspectors and Conductors.

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, Sir, queueing is avery
good thing; but what we want to address our minds
to is this: are we going to ask the people to queue
two abreast on the narrow streets thatwe have here?







1645


,It is quite alright at a bus terminus. There may be
sufficient room to accommodate queueing; but some
of our bus stops are really in cane bunches, so to
speak, A lot of people waiting for buses at this pres -
ent time find themselves having to wait on private
premises. Are we going to legislate here for queueing
by these people on the private premises of other
people?

It is not the case where at these bus poles pro-
vision is to be made to accommodate even a limited
number of people waiting to catch a bus. It is not so
at all. In relation to that, Mr. Speaker, while we must
favour and appreciate what a good thing queueing
must be, one has got to bear in mind that the tra -
velling public, particularly at peak hours, is made
up of what we should say are legitimate travellers;
but in addition to the legitimate traveller who is the
type of person that has a job to go to and who has to
get there at a particular hour, at many of these bus
stops you find a lot of nuisances, alot of young men,
probably carrying brief cases -disillusioned some of
them but they arepeople who in many cases cause
trouble at these bus poles because a person who is
really and truly going to a job at a particular hour
and has got to depend on transportation by bus to get
to the job is denied a seat by a lot of people who have
collected enough overnight to come to town on morn-
ings and you see three, four or five of them propping
up Harrison's Corner or somewhere else around
Bridgetown, while people who have got to go to work
are left in the suburbs or may be in the country dis -
tricts.

You can have queueing, no doubt, but there must
be an adequate bus service. Yes, you can queue, Mr.
Speaker, but a person who has to depend on the bus
might live a quarter of a mile from the bus stop or
may live in a village and the bus may not pass their
village and they might have to go down to the main
road,

If that person knows that the bus will get to the
stop at 8 o'clock, that it is going to run on schedule
and that it will be passing the point where this per-
son will embark, say, 15 minutes before time,he can
leave home at 7.30 and be ready when the bus reaches
there at 7.45 and there will beno problem; but here
is a case where a lot of people have got to assemble
at these bus stops; their jobs have been threatened
each morning that they are late; but they are there
and when the bus comes it cannot accommodate the
number of passengers. When you expect another bus
to come, you get a report that two or three have
broken down on the way.

What will be the position of these people who
have been at that bus stop before 7.30.?
1.55 p.m.

But the case is that the jobs of these people
stand threatened by an inadequate bus service. It is
all right to talk about people queueing. Yes, we will
queue; it is good to have the people queueing, but
you must provide an adequate bus service before you
ask the people to queue. If you ask them to queue you


should make provision in order that they may not
have to queue two abreast on the narrow streets of
this Island. When you ask them to do that, you are
endangering their lives and the lives of motorists.

Mr. Speaker, on this question of who should be
considered legitimate traveller or otherwise, itwill
call for much more consideration than the Minister
has given it. You have a number of young men and
women who have to reach their jobs in Bridgetown
and elsewhere. It does not appear as if we will ever
have enough buses to accommodate our passengers.
There are times when workers have to get to their
jobs, and some provision must be made for them. We
do not know whether the time has arrived when wor-
kers employed by firms should have their work
badges or something on their uniforms, so that the
conductor will know that they are legitimate travel-
lers. There are no two ways about it, Mr. Speaker,
our bus service is very limited.Onwhatever route
you travel you will find the bus service very limited
indeed.

SUSPENSION OF SITTING

Mr. SPEAKER: This sitting is now suspended
until 2.30 p.m.

On resumption:
Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, I ask
that the bell be rung, as there is no quorum.

Mr. SPEAKER: I thank the hon. member; let
the bell be rung.

The bell was rung by the DEPUTY CLERK and a quorum
was obtained.
QUESTION TIME

BARBER GREEN ROADS

Mr. SPEAKER: It is now Question Time. Ques-
tion No. 29 standing in the name of the hon. junior
member for St. George.

Mr. HOPPIN: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the
appropriate Minister:-

Is Government aware of the darkness of the
Barber Green Roads at night in the rural districts
which poses a danger to both pedestrian and ve-
hicular traffic?

If the answer to the above is in the affirmative:

Will Government have lights installed on the
Salters to Chas. Rowe Bridge Highway and at the
junction of Jehovah Jirah and Market Hill Highways
in the parish of Saint George?

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, the replies
are as follows:


Government is aware that the Barber Green
Road surfaces are black when laid and the provi-







1646


sion of street lighting will lessen the risk of acci-
dents to pedestrian and vehicular traffic.

Government has under consideration plans for
improvement of street lighting facilities throughout
the island and consideration will be given to the pos-
sibility of installing street lights in the districts
mentioned, when the street lighting programme is
being prepared.
2.35 p.m.

Mr. SPEAKER: Parliamentary Question No. 70
stands in the name of the hon. senior member for
St. James who is not present in his place.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, we propose to
lay the Replies which we have tabled even if the
questions are not asked.

Mr. SPEAKER: I thank the Hon. Leader of the
House for his assurance.

Mr. CRAIG entered the Chamber and took his seat.

QUESTION re STREET LIGHTING
ALONG HIGHWAY 1.

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, the question reads
as follows:-

To enquire of the appropriate Minister:-

Can the Minister treat as a priority, the street-
lighting along Highway 1,between Porters and Mount
Standfast a street frequently used by hotel-guests
and workers leaving the hotels late at night?

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, the Reply is
as follows:-

"The possibility of improving the lighting along
Highway 1 will be considered when the street light-
ing programme is being prepared."

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, as a supplementary,
when does the Minister envisage that the street
lighting programme will be prepared?

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Within the near future,
But, Mr. Speaker, if I am allowed to explain'a point
to the hon. member, we were about to embark on a
programme of street lighting, and just as we were
getting tenders in, there was the devaluation of the
pound, and this put us in a very precarious position,
because the lights we were planning to get were
those I mentioned to the House early last year as
installed in the back of Hincks Street, and they were
coming from the hard currency area. Since then we
have had two local firms producing lights which we
are hoping to use. We have installed some in the old
Hospital compound,and we are hoping to put some of
these on the streets in the near future.

Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Speaker, have any addi-
tional lights been installed by Government since


'they took over from the Councils and how many? I
am sure this would not embarrass the Minister.


Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Nothing the hon. member
can ask would embarrass me.

Mr. SPEAKER: I thought I saw two hon. mem-
bers on their feet simultaneously.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: No, Mr. Speaker. That
was only one and a half.

Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. member should not be
ashamed of his brevity.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, the reply to
the hon. member's question is that as far as I re-
member no lights have been installed so far.

Mr. MOTTLEY: The hon. member said that the
lights for the street lighting programme which they
envisaged come from the hard currency area. Is
there any possibility of getting these lights from
England or Australia?Philips make lights in England,
and that is where we imported them from.

Mr. SPEAKER: What question is that?

Mr. MOTTLEY: The question is this: Is the
hon. member aware, speaking of the Bridgetown
City Council, that there were a number of lights
which we wanted to instal that were in the hands of
the Electric Company when the Government took
over from the Councils and these lights came from
areas from which Government could continue to get
them such lights as have been used on the Hastings
and St. James Roads?

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, I am not
aware of the fact that the Electric Company still
has street lights in stock.

Mr. MOTTLEY: If the hon. member does not
mind, I want to make the question quite clear. Is the
hon. member aware that when they took over the
Council there were a number of street lights which
were imported and kept by the Electric Company
because they had to instal them? If he is not aware
of that, will the hon, member enquire and find out?
I am not asking you; I am telling you.

Mr. SPEAKER: You have to be asking him; you
cannot be telling him now.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, I thank you
for that, because he wants to ask me a question, and
now I am giving him the answer he wants to tell me
the answer. I have said "no" to his question. I have
been to the Electric Company and we have investi-
gated this. There are no lights at the Electric Com-
pany available for street lighting at this stage.

The hon. member also said that we could get
these lights from England and Australia. Australia
is a hard currency country, Mr. Speaker; but I have


i







1647


told him that we are looking into the possibility of,
making the lights here. (A VOICE: You cannot make
those lights here.) Mr. Speaker, that is the trouble.
If Mr. Butcher did not make the type of bus we are
seeing now, nobody would believe Mr. Butcher could
make a bus. I am saying that we are making the
lights here. I am trying to give the House the in-
formation, but he is arguing with me about some-
thing I know. That is the type of mentality you get.
The lights will be made here and that is what we
are examining, because we feel that the money will
be inside the country, and it would be a cheaper
light than what we get from overseas.

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, I am not in any way
trying to be difficult, knowing that the Minister can
get a bit angry at times.

Mr. SPEAKER: Is the hon. member trying to
ask a question?

Mr. CRAIG: Yes, Sir. When the Minister says
"in the near future", would the Minister state
whether he means some time this year, or would
his contention be that the near future would be some
time between now and 1971?

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, I am an-
swering this question for two specific reasons. One
is to prove to the hon. member that there is nothing
he can say to get me hot at this stage; and when I
say "near future", I could not mean 1970, because
I do not know if I would be around in 1970. When I
say "in the near future", I mean that we are exam-
ining this thing now and hope to have these lights
installed this year.

Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Speaker, I think the hon.
member might have made a mistake and I am giving
him a chance to check on it. The hon. member said
that lights are being made here. 1 think he is wrong,
and what he means is that they are making the fit-
tings here. The hon. member knows that the lights
which we installed and to which I referred are
nothing Mr.Butcher makes. If he is talking about the
fixtures and fittings, they were always made here.
Does the hon. member mean the lights or the fit-
tings? He might want to correct himself because
this will go down in Hansard.

Mr. SPEAKER: The question has been put.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, I cannot un-
derstand what is wrong with hon. members today.
I said the lights will be made here. I do not know
what the hon. member means by fittings, It is known
that we do not make fluorescent bulbs here, Mr.
Speaker, and if the hon. member wants to be techni-
cal, a fluorescent bulb is not a light; it is a lamp.
What I am trying to say, Mr. Speaker, is that we
are going to make the things here ourselves with the
exception of the two fluorescent lamps. We are mak-
ing the stand, assembling and everything else here.
I am giving the information which I have as Minis -
ter, and if they do not want it, I am finished.
2.45 p.m.


Mr. MOTTLEY: I would not like to mislead the
people. I believe that the Hon. Minister is absolutely
honest in what he has said. He has given the infor-
mation which he has, but you cannot make the lights
here, nothing to suit this public. You make the fit-
tings here.

Mr. SPEAKER: That is not a question.

Mr. MOTTLEY: You make the fittings here. I
will give the Minister a chance to correct what he
has said.

Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. member cannot make
a speech. (AFTER A PAUSE) Is there any other
supplementary question?

Mr. MOTTLEY: The hon. member is assuring
us that the fixtures and fittings will be made here.
I just want to make my position clear. Being the
person who is responsible for the installation of
more lights than anybody else, I thought that this
scientific lighting would have been here by now. The
fixtures were always made here;that is nothing new.

Mr. SPEAKER: What is the question being led
up to?

Mr. MOTTLEY: It is being led up to the fact
that the lights are not made here.

Mr. SPEAKER: No, no, that is a statement.

Mr. MOTTLEY: The Hon. Minister made a
statement, but he said that it was according to his
information. (AFTER A PAUSE).

Mr. SPEAKER: Apparently, the Minister cannot
shed any more light on the matter.

Mr. MOTTLEY: Because he has not got either
the fittings or the fixtures.

HARDSHIPS DUE TO ABSENCE OF PROPER
AMENITIES IN PILE BAY DISTRICT

Mr. SPEAKER: The next question to which the
reply has been laid is question No. 92, standing in
the name of the hon. senior member for St. James.
That is on page 6, left-hand column.

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the ap-
propriate Minister:-

Is Government aware that the residents of Pile
Bay District, St. Michael, suffer great inconveni-
ences and hardships due to the absence in the said
District of proper roads, water and electricity?

2. If the answer to the above is in the af
firmative,will Government take the necessary steps
to alleviate the inconveniences and hardships com-
plained of?

Hon. N, W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, the Reply to
the hon. member's Question is as follows: -







1648


"1. No, Sir.

2. The Pile Bay District is a private ten-
antry. It is already supplied with water. Electric
supply is available. A recently constructed private
road allows reasonable access to the district."

GOVERNMENT POLICY re PARENT-
TEACHER BODIES

Mr. SPEAKER: The next Question to which the
Reply has been laid is Question No. 152, standing in
the name of the hon. junior member for St. Peter.
That is on page 10, left-hand column.

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the ap-
propriate Minister:-

What is the policy of Government relative to
Parent-Teacher bodies or groups functioning at Pri-
mary, Senior Elementary, Secondary Modern or
Comprehensive or Secondary Grammar School level?

2. Does Government consider Parent-
Teacher relationship an indispensable link in any
system of education for the upbringing of the youth?

3. How many Parent-Teacher bodies are at
present functioning amongst Government -maintained
Schools; how many amongst Government-assisted
and approved schools?

4. What assistance of any kind, except the
availability of school buildings for meetings, has
Government rendered to any Parent-Teacher body
or bodies during the school-year ending 1966, and
the school-year ending 1967?

5. How many meetings held by these bodies
have been addressed by Education Officers of the
Ministry? And if addresses were given, was the
initiative taken by the Ministry or was it merely in
honour of a request from the Parent-Teacher body
so addressed?

6. How many teachers and how many parents
are actively involved at Primary, Senior Elemen-
tary, Secondary Modern or Comprehensive School
or Secondary Grammar School level in the Parent-
Teacher movement in this Island?

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, the Reply to
the hon. member's Question is as follows:-

(i) Parent-Teacher Associations are con-
sidered desirable. Heads of Schools are
encouraged to organise such associations
and to report on their progress. The offi-
cers of the Ministry of Education and the
Social Welfare Officer, give assistance
wherever possible.

(ii) The Parent-Teacher relationship is not an
indispensable factor, but the existence of
active Parent-Teacher Associations help
considerably in the education of the youth.


(iii) The number of Parent-Teacher Associa-
tions at present functioning is fifty eight (58)
broken down as follows:-


Primary and all-age
Comprehensive
Grammar
Aided- Independent
Total


- 50
-- 3
-- 2
- 3
- 58


(iv) The assistance rendered by Government
apart from the loan of school buildings,
was as follows:-

For the year ending 1966:

40% of the total cost of Pianos for the fol-
lowing schools


Pine Primary -
St. Catherine's -


$366.00
$240.00


For the year ending 1967:


(a) Twelve (12) lectures were given by
officers of the Social Welfare Department.

(b) Six (6) lectures were given by School
Attendance Officers of the Ministry of Edu-
cation.

(c) Twenty-four (24) lectures were
given by Education Officers of the Ministry.

(d) A first-aid class run by the Royal
Barbados Police Force was organised by the
Ministry.

(e) The Visual-Aids section of the Min-
istry of Education arranged film shows for
two Parent-Teacher Associations. Schools
are also notified of films of the Mobile
Cinema Programme, which would be of in-
terest to Parent-Teacher Associations, so
that parents who are interested could attend
when the film is shown in their district.

(v) There were twenty-four (24) meetings of
Parent-Teacher Associations which were
addressed by Education Officers as fol-
lows : -


Primary and all-age
Comprehensive
Aided-Independent
Total


22
- 1
- 1
24


Twenty-three (23) of these addresses were
at the request of Associations and one (1)
was on the initiative of the Ministry of
Education.

(vi) There are four hundred and fifty-seven
(457) teachers and three thousand, one








1649


hundred and seventeen (3,117) parents ac-
tively involved in Parent-Teacher Associa-
tions in this Island. The breakdownof those
totals are:-

Teachers Parents


Primary and all-age
Comprehensive
Grammar
Aided-Independent
Total


293
61
65
38
457


2,380
240
355
142
3,117


2.55 p.m.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I realise that
the hon. member might find it difficult to raise a sup-
plementary on the basis that this question has a con-
siderable amount of information. If he wishes, we can
proceed to the other question and he canhave a look
at this and put up a supplementary in another few
minutes.

Mr. SPEAKER: The only problem is that it will
be 3.15.

Mr. HINDS: Can you allow the Questions to re-
main on the Order Paper and allow me to debate
them at a later stage?

Mr. SPEAKER: Not to debate them.

Mr. HINDS: To ask a supplementary.


Mr. SPEAKER: Yes, and it is so ordered that
these Questions will stand over until the next meet-
ing of the House.





PLAYING FIELD AT ST. JUDES

Mr. SPEAKER: Question No. 161 standing in the
name of the hon. senior member for St. James.



Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the ap-
propriate Minister:

Will Government acquire compulsorilyy or
otherwise) the lands adjacent to the St. Judes Mixed
School, St. George, for the purpose of providing a
playing field for the inhabitants of the area?

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker,the Reply is as
follows: -


The plans for physical development on an island-
wide basis which are currently under study include
provision of a playing field at St. Judes.


Mr. HINDS: Can the Minister tell us if the plans
include lands adjacent to the St. Judes Mixed School?


Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I cannot say
that. I would not know.

Mr. HINDS: That is why you have not replied to
the question.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: It appears,Mr. Speaker, that
it has been recommended that a playing field at St.
Judes is desirable, and upon this basis the Ministry
is acquiring land, as far as I can see.

PLAYING FIELD AT BOURNE'S VILLAGE

Mr. SPEAKER: Question No. 162, Page 12 left
hand column, standing in the name of the hon, senior
member for St. James.

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the ap-
propriate Minister:

Is the Minister aware that there is no playing
field at or near Bourne's Village in the parish of St.
George?

Will the Minister see to it that such a playing
field is provided to service the needs of the inhabi-
tants of Bourne's Village and the Flat Rock area?

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, the Reply is as
follows: -

"1. Yes, Sir.

2. Bourne's Village and Flat Rock are
comparatively small Villages. While it is the Gov-
ernment's policy to provide playing fields wherever
communities develop, financial and other considera-
tions dictate that priority should be given to the more
populous districts. The needs of the Villages in
question will be kept in view."

PRIVATE MEMBERS' BUSINESS

Mr. SPEAKER: Those are all the questions to
which replies have been laid and in respect of which
hon. members are in their places. We will now pro-
ceed to Private Members' Business, and the first
Order of the Day is to resume debate on the second
reading of a Bill to repeal the West Indies Hospital
Fund Limited Act, 1964. When this matter was last
discussed in this Chamber the hon. senior member
for Bridgetown was making his final speech in reply.
The hon. member may now resume.

Mr. MOTTILEY: Mr. Speaker, this Billhas been
on the Order Paper for quite some time and we have
heard the pros and cons. Ihaveput in the necessary
documentary to show that it is an unadulterated fraud
that it is being carried on.

I came here today not really to prolong the agony
or to make any long speech. How well I know that
numerically in Party politics numbers would be
against me, and I would not win the vote of the day.
But this I do know, that might is never right. I think







1650


I do not remember who said it that the mighty should,
never use their might in things unsaid, nor should the
fortunate deem that their prosperity will last for ever.

I have put in for the benefit of members on the
other side evidence to prove the reasons why this
Bill should be amended. I have given them the op-
portunity, and at this stage,even today, I am willing
if Your Honour is right, despite the garbled reports
which have been presented, to let hon. members,
Ministers of the Crown have the right if Your Hon-
our so pleases, to say that the statements I made
relative to the Post Office are incorrect whether it
would be a point of order, or if as Your Honour knows,
you can give that opportunity to an hon. member,
Minister of the Crown or anybody else that they may
dispute any statement that was not a statement of
fact.

It seems therefore, Sir, only one thing to do in
this matter. If they do not judge today, they will
judge tomorrow or next year or in 1971 as to the
bona fides of this Hospital Sweep, what is going on,
and whether it has done Barbados any good.
3.05 p.m.

I categorically denied the statements which
were made in here by the Hon. and learned Prime
Minister regarding the statements of money paid in.
I still deny them today; but with the sort of Press
that you have in this Island, when a member of the
Opposition denies a statement made by a Prime
Minister no opportunity is taken to go into the merits
or demerits of the case, and some people try to
make out that the Opposition is one which is just
stirring up strife, or to make out that the Minister
is one who is just glossing things over for the bene-
fit of getting a vote passed.

I know conscientiously that in the hearts ofhon.
members of the Government, they do not feel that this
is a wrong move. I know conscientiously they feel
that what has been happening here is not the best
thing for Barbados. I do not think it is necessary for
me to repeat the reasons why, together with the hon.
senior member for St. Joseph, I gave this Bill my
support. Together with my colleague the hon. mem-
ber for the City we gave this Bill'our support; so to
anyone who might think that here is a man who gave
support to a Bill just a few years ago and comes
back today to castigate and to put up a case against
the very Bill he supported, I may say that all of us
who voted for this Bill -those of us outside the Gov-
ernment in the know voted for it because we felt
that the words that came from the lips of the Prime
Minister and from those who were in the know who
told us about the $72 million, and who told us about
the $500,000 annually were correct. None of us could
then deny the fact that we wanted to see Barbados get
this money and, therefore, we gave them an oppor-
tunity to do so.

Now, when we find that the operation of this in-
stitution, or of this organisation I would prefer to call
it, is going on in such a way that we have not col-


elected what was portrayed to us by the Hon. Minister
of Finance, who was then in charge of it, and we have
not collected what was alleged to have been paid into
the Courts, or into the Treasury of this Island, we
have to take a different view of things. The activities
of the organisation are such that they make most of
us, who are in Barbados and are interested in get-
ting all we can for it, hang our heads in shame.


Mr. Speaker, I have brought evidence to this
House which I know has shocked hon. Ministers; I
have brought to this House evidence which I knew
had hon. members of the Government feeling sad
that they had to be loyal in respect of Party poli-
tics, and, if there was a free vote on this matter,
this Bill would be triumphant and it would win out
and win the day.

Up to now there is, if you went to a law court -
nothing but blackmail. If you went through the Post
Office I think of men like Marcus Garvey who got
prosecuted for less than this. Whatever you did in
respect of this you would have to say: this, at least,
is wrong. How often can I repeat that might is not
right? If the numerical strength of the Government
in this House gives it the right to deny the passing
of this Bill to repeal the West Indies Hospital Fund
Limited Act, then I say that some day......

Mr. Speaker, let us take another look at the mat-
ter. If there is the idea they tried to make out that
the Ministry of Finance was finding work for people.
You have Bingo and all the other games of chance
operating in this Island. In the United States Governor
Rockefeller started a lottery. I do not think the
money is to be earmarked for a specific project, but
the lottery is to help the national revenue.

In Trinidad, next door it is not always right
for us to take as examples some of these places;
sometimes we must take them as a warning. Surely
as you listen to the radio at night, you see on the
television, and as you listen to Rediffusion, you can
hear the games of chance. According to the argument
used by the Prime Minister of this country, the idea
was to find work for people and to get revenue for the
country. I categorically deny this. It was a reckless
mis-statement to say that the idea was to find work
for people and to get revenue. It is absolutely untrue.
We know of the statement made to us in the Hansard
about $,500,000. Everybody knows well enough what
has happened.

If, therefore, the argument is going to be finding
work for people, why should not the Government run
an entire lottery in the country? Why shouldwe have
letters and handbills going out and printed by the
Advocate Commercial Printery? Despite what one
member of this House got up and said, when I passed
around documents here, that I was tricky enough to
get Hinds print them the depth of that cancerous
mind will be found out one day.
3.15 p.m.
Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. member is not refer-
ring to any member of this House.


I








1651


Mr. MOTTLEY: I might not be.

Mr. SPEAKER: Of course he must not byname.

Mr. MOTTLEY: I know I must not and I might
not be doing so, but I say that the cancerous mind
of the member who said so......

Mr. SPEAKER: I am not referring to that. I am
referring to the name which was called. I just want
the assurance that the name of any hon. member of
this House was not being called in respect of having
allegedly printed something.

Mr. MOTTLEY: I am not talking about a printer.
I said "Hinds".

Mr. SPEAKER: Therefore a member of the
House is not thereby being referred to. I accept the
assurance of the hon. senior member for Bridgetown.

Mr. MOTTLEY: As Your Honour accepts that
assurance, I will go on. I sent around literature in
the form of hand bills setting out that this sweepstake
was being run for the Queen Elizabeth Hospital for the
Leader of the House andhis colleagues to read. One
might ask if this is the only argument to convince the
general public, what is the member for Bridgetown
making a row about? What difference does it make?
You have lotteries and gambling, and people take
chances. If you are generally going to run a lottery,
let the State itself run it. As I said, it is not neces-
sary for us to take example from Trinidad or the
State of New York where Rockefeller has just in-
stituted one and where Dr. Eric Williams has
just instituted another. I am no paragon of virtue, Mr.
Speaker, and because I have reached this age would
say that I do not think we should gamble, because I
realise that it is human nature to take chances: so
if the State came in here with such legislation to con -
trol the organising of alotteryfrom which they would
get the benefit for the State, I would be the first to
support it; but surely, Sir, I cannot be a party to this
one-sided, dishonest, unfair organisation which I
have proved beyond the shadow of a doubt is being
run in this way.

Now this is not a criticism of the first attempt
by the Government, because I believe myself that the
Government was told that this organisation would
pay $500,000 a year, and the desperation for capital
to improve the situation in this country was such
that any Government would have taken a chance. But
having done that and it is proven beyond the shadow
of a doubt that it has failed, what can you do? Mr.
Speaker, if you were presiding there not as Speaker
of this august Chamber but as a Judge or as Judge
and jury, having heard the case which was made out
for the retention of the West Indies Hospital Sweep-
stake, and having heard the case supported by docu-
mentary evidence which I have made out, you could
come to no other conclusion than that this Bill
should once and for all be eliminated from the
Statutes of this Island.
Now as I said, Mr. Speaker, any Government
would have taken the opportunity when it was repre-


sented to them what would happen, but the Clerk of
this House can well remember that when I succeeded
in getting this Bill to go to a Select Committee, I
was told what the situation was and how much money
the individual owned, and I asked then to be told how
much the Hospital Sweepstake had been capitalised
at. At that stage the Solicitors were brought in and
we were told by them that the bankers were the Bank
of Nova Scotia, and up to the present we have never
been told what it could be capitalised at. Having
watched the situation for some time, and having re-
ceived all the communications which I have from
time to time, and brought them in here, even though I
do not for a moment feel that the Government Party
would support this Bill, I repeat, nowthat the Prime
Minister is here, that if the argument used by the
Prime Minister is one of finding employment, since
there can be no hope of getting the revenue which we
had hoped for, the Government at this stage should
take over as well all the other games of chance and
run a lottery as is done in Trinidad and New York,
as I am not so naive as to feel that this could not
happen in Barbados.

Mr. Speaker, I have given all the evidence neces -
sary and I repeat what I said in my opening remarks.
It is your right, and I suppose the right of members
of this House, to give any hon. member the right to
dispute any of the evidence which I have brought here
and which I have passed around for every hon. mem-
ber to see. Under the circumstances, when the mo-
tion is put that this Bill be repealed, although we do
not have the numerical strength to have this Bill
repealed, nevertheless I feel I am discharging my
conscience, and if it is not repealed today, tle time
will not be far distant when it will be repealed be-
cause something will have to be done not only for the
good name of Barbados, but for what has been hap-
pening. Flor disciplinary purposes members of the
Government Party in the I louse will have to vote "no"
to this motion, but for other reasons they must feel
that under the circumstances this West Indies Hos-
pital Sweepstake must be repealed since it has por-
trayed to the world that it was being run for the
benefit of the Queen Elizabeth Hospital which was
opened by Prince Philip.
3.25 p.m.

Any organization, during its teethingperiod, will
have some trouble. I listened to this very carefully,
and I believe that an organization will have some
trouble during its teethingperiod, but there is no jus-
tification during a teething period to put up any sys-
tem of fraud in order to extract money from people
through a system of fraud. You cannot say that a
period of one year, two years and three years is a
teething period. That is not good enough. I am not
here to bring up the Canadian laws or the American
laws or what not, but I feel that, at this late period,
the Government of this country should certainly bring
together all the games of chance in this country in-
cluding the West Indies Hospital Sweep, and run a
lottery for the benefit of the general revenue of this
country. It is human nature. I am not a racehorse
fan, I am not a sweepstake man; I am not one of
those who feel that the hundreds and' thousands of








1652


people who like to take chances at sweepstakes,
Bingos and what not, should not be given an oppor-
tunity. I feel that they should be given an opportunity
and therefore I feel that, in the circumstances, I
have made my case out. I repeat that, although hon.
members will have to vote otherwise, they will rea-
lise that, in the circumstances, a strong case has
been made out and there can be no reprisals as to
why we voted for it. If a similar case had been put by
a Government which wanted money, either for carry-
ing out a crash programme or for carrying out social
amenities, and we thought that they would get $500,000
a year, like my colleagues and the hon. senior mem-
ber for St. Joseph, we would have voted for it, and it
may be that we would vote for it again tomorrow. On
the other hand, if we see that it is wrong, we are
bound to draw it to the attention of the general public
and it is for the public to judge.

Mr. Speaker, despite the garbled way in which
my side of the presentation has been put, and the red
herrings which were drawn across the line the
question of providing employment is one which we all
felt is not the case in this matter, because when it was
raised with us in here, it was not a question of pro-
viding employment or anything of the sort. There are
many other statements which I could make in here,
but I am not given to making statements unless I have
proof for them. Those statements which I have made,
have been backed up with proof through the Post
Office and through the Police Department and I feel
that after all of my years in Barbados where I was
born, I do not think that this company has done this
country any good. Get them out as you may, get from
the Customs, get from the Emigration Officer the
number of people and the names and addresses of
people who come here from Canada, the United States
of America, England and from wherever they come,
mail out these things to them, mail them out under
fictitious names, collect them from the Post Office
under fictitious nam. s, have no PostOffice numbers
for them, have a Post Office n imber, a number wh'icb
does not exist, have them delivered in the Post Office
because when they have not got a lot of numbers out -
side they deliver them to yoa all of th.-sc things I
have gone carefully into. But above all, when you
walk down the street in any country outside of Bar-
bados and somebody shows you somethingwhichhas
been printed at the Advocate Commercial Printerv in
dridgetown setting out what is the first p'-iz an.d j mt
this Fund is for the Queen Elizabeth Hospita' and it
goes further, opened by Prince Philip you cannot
answer this. There might have been other ways ofl
trying to push the scheme, but do notpush it by siyv-
ing that it is for the hospital in Barbados and do not
push it by saying that it is for the poor, little, unsup-
ported children in Barbados. ['hat is not fair: that is
not right. In the circumstances, 1 have already m.,ve i
that this 3ill be now read a second time.

The question that this Bill be now read a second time was
putiand resolved in the negative.

A division was taken as follows:-

AYES: Messrs. LYNCH, MO FTLEY, HINDS,
CRAIG, SMIfH and St. JOHN 6.


NOES: Mr. YEARWOOD, Hon'bles J. C. TUDOR,
E. W. BARROW, A. DaC. EDWARDS, N. W. BOXILL,
Messrs. LOWE, CORBIN,

On Mr. SPRINGER being called upon to vote.

Mr. MOTTLEY: (Sitting) Mr. Speaker, I do not
think that the hon. senior member for St. Michael
can vote on this Bill. He has disclosed his interest
in the Bill. It is a matter for Your Honour.

Mr. SPEAKER: I have been informed that the hon.
senior member for St. Michael has said that he has
an interest in the Bill. That information I have ob-
tained from the Clerk-at-the-Table.I do not rule that
the hon. member is disentitled to vote. Accordingly
his vote may be recorded.
The division continued as follows:-

NOES: Messrs. SPRINGER, WEEKES,andHOP-
PIN 10.

Mr. SPEAKER: Ihave been informed that sixhon.
members have voted "Aye" and ten hon. members
have voted "No". The result of this vote is that this
Bill cannot now be read a second time.
3.35 p.m.

Mr. SPEAKER: The next Order of the Day, that
is Order No. 2, stands in the name of the Hon. and
Learned Leader of the Opposition to resume debate
on the passing of a Resolution that this House note
the Financial Statement and Budgetary Proposals for
the Fiscal Year 1967-68 contained in a Statement
made in the Honourable House on 30th June, 1967, by
the Minister of Finance.

When debate was last adjourned on this matter
the hon. senior member for St. Joseph was on the
15th August, 1967, addressing the Chair. That hon.
member may, if he wishes, resume.

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, Sir, Inever love to flog
a dead horse; but it was my intention to lash the
Government from now on until the next Budgetary
Proposals come down. It was my intention, and am
capable of lashing them every Tuesday until the next
Budgetary Proposals; but as Ihave said, there is no
use flogging a dead horse.

But, Sir, it is shocking and disgraceful and it is
a let down to the electorate of this country that here
it is the Budgetary Proposals were introduced into
this Chamber I think it was in May or June last
year, and the Opposition has not got a reasonable
chance to reply to the proposals. It is, Sir, that the
people of this country were called upon to pay the
necessary taxes whatever they were and they have
had to adhere to the proposals and everything of that
sort, but their representatives did not have a chance
to say in full how they feel about it.

Now, Sir, I feel that no sooner than the Hon.
Prime Minister had finished laying his proposals,
immediately after that, if not the same day, the Op-
position should have had their chance of replying to
these proposals.







1653


Now, Sir, I note with regret that after the Hon.
Prime Minister finished his address on this matter -
the hon. senior member for the City's Bill should not
have taken precedence over the reply on the Budget-
ary Proposals.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: If the hon. member would
give way......

Mr. SPEAKER: On what is the Leader of the
House speaking?

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: On a point of order. The hon.
member is addressing the House on an Item of Pri-
vate Members' Business. It is the right, in fact the
duty of private members on the other side to fix their
own priorities on the Order Paper whenever the
House is about to be adjourned. I wouldhave thought
that consultation between the movers of No. 1 and No.
2 would in any case have made it possible for No. 2
to become No. 1 as the hon. member is now sug-
gesting.

.This is the second part of my point of order. It
is wrong for the hon. member to make it appear that
the Government is responsible for this. As everyone
knows, there were three or four Privilege Motions
and numerous Censure Motions which came in be -
tween the tabling of Order No. 2 and today's date.
Some of them have been dealt with more exhaustively
than other matters on the Order Paper. I decline to
accept for this side any responsibility in any way for
the matter about which the hon. member is now com-
plaining.

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, that is a very long
point of order. I think that was a gallon. I can re-
member very well after the Prime Minister made his
speech, and I think that the House adjourned the same
afternoon, the Hon. Leader of the Opposition intro-
duced his Resolution and therefore that should be
Order No. 1; but the hon. senior member for the
City's Bill appeared as Order No. 1.

I am sure about it. Who is responsible for that?
That is why I am saying that no sooner than the
Prime Minister finished his speech, the reply by the
Opposition on the Budgetary Proposals should follow
regardless of whatever was on the Order Paper. I
was surprised when I saw it on the Order Paper as
No. 2 when it should be No. 1. Who is responsible
for that? I do not know if it is the Government, the
Clerk or who, but I can remember only too well. I do
not know whose fault it was but lam sure that it ap-
peared as No. 2.


Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker,onapoint of
order. I think that the hon. member has already had
the explanation given that Private Members' Business
on the Order Paper is fixed by private members
themselves. The Bill which has just been disposed of
in a fitting manner when it was given notice of, the
hon. senior member for the City asked that the Bill
be put as No. 1 on the Order Paper and the Leader of
the Opposition agreed and on each and every subse-
quent occasion no objection was made to the order in


which Private Members' Business appeared on the
Order Paper.

On each and every adjournment of the House it
was possible for anyone of themto reverse the order
of items as they appeared on the Order Paper. The
truth is that they hadnothingto say about the Budget-
ary Proposals.

Mr. SPEAKER: No. That is not apointof order.
3.45 p.m.

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, since the Hon. Prime
Minister says we had nothing to say, I would start
up. He is now starting me up, and I will not finish
it until today year. I am saying that anything of this
sort that is so great and material to the people of
this country the Prime Minister has the power to
tax you, me and everybody. He has the power, the
opportunity and everything to do whatever he likes.
That is his privilege, and it should be our privilege
soon after he finishes when last an Order Paper
was fixed in here? I was surprised, and I expected
to see the Budgetary Proposals and replies as No. 1
It came to me as No. 2 on the Order Paper, and it
should be No. 1.

I think the hon. senior member for the City
would remember when he was Leader of the Opposi-
tion that the Budgetary Proposals and the replies
always appeared as No. 1. If I am not mistaken, I
think he moved that it be No. 1. If the Leader of the
Opposition did not move it as No. 1, then I feel it is
the duty of the Clerk, or whoever is responsible, to
make it No. 1. That is what should have been done,
but they put it as No. 2.

What has happened now, Sir? The Government
got the idea I am not now speaking for my Party -
that they can put over these fast ones, but I know
every bit of it. If it were left to me, I would not let
them get away with anything. Here it is: you have
Budgetary Proposals that are very important, and
they adjourn the House to 2.30 p.m. Almost every
meeting they are adjourning the House to 2.30 p.m.
If they wanted the people to hear what we had to say,
they would have given us a chance by adjourning the
House to 2.00 p.m.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, on a point of
order. The hon. member must not generate more
indignation than he can conveniently contain.

Mr. SPEAKER: That is not a point of order.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: It is just an observation,
Sir. If the House is adjourned until 2.30 p.m. any
Tuesday......

Mr. SMITH: That is not a point of order.

Mr. SPEAKER: I have not yet heard what the
hon. member is about to say. He must be allowed to
complete his sentence, and then I will rule.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, the charge
that the Government is putting one over on the Op-







1654


position in moving the adjournment until 2.30 p.m.
on any Tuesday cannot be substantiated, because it
is nearly always done on consultation.

Mr. SMITH: That is not a point of order. If you
have not heard him, Mr. Speaker, I have heard him.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Secondly, a meeting of the
House starting at 2.30 p.m.

Mr. SMITH: That is a speech and not a point of
order.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I was saying
that a meeting of the House starting at 2.30 p.m.
cannot prevent Private Members' Business from
being dealt with.

Thirdly, it is not true that this side of the
House......

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, this is a speech and
not a point of order. You can lock me up now; I can
go to jail.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: It is not true to say that this
side of the House is in any way preventing......

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, this is a speech, and
I am not sitting down.

Mr. SPEAKER: Standing Order No. 28 dealing
with interruptions Will the Hon. Leader of the
House and the hon. senior member for St. Joseph
be seated.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Certainly, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. SPEAKER: The Standing Order states:

"No Member shall interrupt another Member
except -

(a) by rising to a point of order, when the
Member speaking shall resume his seat and the
Member interrupting shall simply direct attention
to the point which he desires to bring to notice and
submit it to the Speaker or Chairman for decision;
or" and so on.

Now, the Hon. Leader of the House has risen,
as he has stated, to a point of order. It is his duty,
as the member interrupting, simply to direct atten-
tion to the point which he desires to bring to notice
and submit it to the Speaker or Chairman for de-
cision. He is directing attention to a point which, as
I now understand it, is threefold in its significance.
It is a threefold point of order. The hon. member
is making what I understand to be the third.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Thirdly, it is not true, as
the hon. member has suggested and has repeated,
that this side of the House is in some way responsi-
ble for a particular Order not being Order No. 1.
Just as I have the right, when the House is being
adjourned, to say which of Government's items I


would like to take at the next meeting, so, too, the
Opposition has the right to say which of its items
should be taken as Order No. 1. If the hon. member
finds that Order No. 2 has not been Order No. 1,
then he has to blame the Leader of the Opposition.
He should draw the House's attention to that desire,
if he wishes to make it.

Mr. SPEAKER: In respect of this point, which
has generated a certain amount of heat, I have had
the Clerks of the Table prepare me a statement in
connection with this matter. On the 8th August the
hon.and learned Leader of the Opposition moved the
Resolution, and it was seconded by the hon. and
learned senior member for St. Thomas. That is on
the 8th August. On the following Tuesday, the 15th
August, the hon. senior member for.St. Joseph
spoke on the Resolution. On the following Tuesday,
the 22nd August and I would ask hon. members
please to note this date the hon. senior member
for Bridgetown moved, seconded by the hon. and
learned Leader of the Opposition, that the West
Indies Hospital Sweepstake Bill be now read a
second time. On the following Tuesdays, namely,the
29th August, the 5th September and the 12th Septem-
ber, debate on that Bill continued.

That is an explanation of why, as from the 22nd
August, 1967, this matter has been No. 1 on the
Order Paper, or, at least, has had precedence over
the Budgetary Proposals. That is in accordance with
the information supplied me.
3.55 p.m.

Mr. SMITH: According to the information, Mr.
Speaker, I made the speech, and even the biggest
fool would have expected that it would have been re-
turned on the Order Paper as No. 1. Imagine my
making a speech on this particular Resolution and
the next Tuesday it appears as No. 2!

Mr.SPEAKER: According to the information sup-
plied me, on the 15th August, the hon. senior mem-
ber for St. Joseph spoke on the Resolution. On 22nd
August, the hon. senior member for Bridgetown
moved, seconded by the hon. and learned Leader of
the Opposition that the West Indies Hospital Fund
Limited Act be now read a second time, and dis-
cussion on that took place on 22nd August and con-
tinued on 29th August, 5th September and 12th
September. I will also draw this to the attention of
hon. members: the Bill in the name of the hon. se-
nior member for Bridgetown was read a first time
on 13th June, 1967. The Resolution on the Financial
Statement was first given notice of on 4th June,1967.
Let the hon. member proceed.

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, you have just read
that on 15th August I was speaking when time ran
out. On 22nd August the hon. senior member for
Bridgetown moved the second reading of that par-
ticular Bill because you had called Order No. 1 and
the Bill was Order No. 1. Imagine, Mr. Speaker,
that a Resolution is before the House on which an
hon. member was speaking when time ran out, and
before it was disposed of, another new Order took







1655


,its place.That matter should have remained as No.l,
but it came up as No. 2 on the Order Paper. Today
I find myself with two Order Papers; so that will
speak for itself. How did I come by two Order Pa-
pers? Is everything going right? Regardless of what
the Leader of the Opposition does, this Order should
have remained as No. 1.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, on a point
of order, we have been trying to explain something
to the hon. member who despite his twenty years
in here still has not learnt the procedure of the
House. The point that we attempted to convey to the
hon. member was that an Order which is an Order
No. 2 canonly become an Order No. 1 if the person
responsible asks for it to be promoted on the Order
Paper. Now I would like to point out to the hon.
member that his concern only started today at a
comparatively late time, because he spoke on the
other Bill which has been disposed of this afternoon
way down just before me on 7th November; so if he
considered that the Resolution on the Financial
Statement was of such great pith and moment, he
could have declined to speak on the Hospital Bill
which at that time they thought more politically
opportune......

Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. member is now going
beyond the point of order.

Hon. E. W, BARROW: That was in parenthesis,
but the hon, member obviously considered it more
important that he should speak on 7th November on
that Bill rather than on this one. What I am trying to
point out to the hon. member......

Mr. SMITH: I am not letting the Prime Minis-
ter get away with that. That is not a point of order.
I was giving him time to talk, but he is trying to
take advantage now.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: I have not finished my
point of order, sir.

Mr. SPEAKER: The parenthesis was becoming
somewhat extensive.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: I had finished the paren-
thesis a long time ago. The point I am trying to
make and on which I am asking for Your Honour's
ruling so that the hon. member would stop wasting
the time of hon. members......

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, I object to the hon.
member saying he is assisting me and saving me
from wasting time. I am not wasting time; it is he
who is wasting time, and if he wants me to waste
time, I can waste it.

Mr. SPEAKER: It seems to me that grave dis-
order is perilously approaching. We could hardly
be closer to it.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, if I may
conclude my point of order, when one makes a point
of order, I understand it to be correct that it should


be a point of order and Your Honour:shotild give a
ruling, and the ruling which I am asking Your Hon-
our to give at this stage is that it is competent for
any member of the Opposition, primarily for the
Leader of the Opposition, on the adjournment of the
House from time to time to readjust the items under
Private Members' Business on the Order Paper.
That disposes of the whole matter; so-how can the
hon. member say that we set the Order Paper?

Mr. SPEAKER: Now I have no hesitation in rul-
ing on the point as requested by the Hon. and Lear-
ned Prime Minister.I am afraid it is in respect of
a practice which has recently fallen into disuse or
which has hardly ever been used in this session;
but when the Hon. Leader of the House moves the
adjournment, it is for him then and there to set the
Order which he wishes for Government Business.
He should resume his seat if he gets any intimation
whatsoever from the Opposition that they want to
fix their Private Members' Business in a certain
order if the order is different from what appears on
the Order Paper of that day. But as I said, that prac -
tice it is hardly correct to say it has fallen into
disuse but I have hardly even known it to be used
in this session.

Looking at the Order Paper for the 8th August,
I see on that date in the name of the hon. senior
member for Bridgetown under Private Members'
Business, No. 1: Second reading of a Bill to repeal
the West Indies Hospital Fund Limited Act, 1964;
No. 2: Financial Statement and Budgetary Proposals.
I turn to 15th August and I see No. 1: hon. senior
member for Bridgetown Second reading of a Bill
to repeal the West Indies Hospital Fun.! Limited
Act; No. 2. Financial Statement. I turn now to the
Order Paper for 22nd August, and I see No. 1; hon.
senior member for Bridgetown -Second reading of a
Bill to repeal the West Indies hospital Fund Limited
Act: No. 2 To resume debate on the Financial
Statement. Again I turn to 29th August and there
again I see No. I: senior member for Bridgetown,
No. 2 lion. Leader of the Opposition: and so it
goes on so far as 1 am able to see by taking a quick
glance with the West Indies hospital Fund Limited
Act as No. 1.

In the absence of the Order Paper beingfixed in
respect of Private Members' Business at the in-
stance of a private member, it remains the same,
and that order was before any other, and before the
Budgetary proposals. Let the hon. senior member
for St. Joseph proceed.
4.05 p.m.

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, I can remember only
too well that when I was speaking on this particular
matter, time ran out and on the next Tuesday it
should have appeared I am saying this, I do not
know how you would rule or what the Prime Minis-
ter would do, that on the following Tuesday the hon.
senior member for the City's Bill appeared on the
Order Paper as Order No. 1. I would not say that
you do not understand, I would not gp so far as to
say that, it would appear that the Prime Minister







1656


did not understand or he does not want to under-
stand. This is a matter which was debated. Take,
for instance, under the Standing Order, if a matter
is being debated, it can remain on the Order Paper
for three hundred million years, but one which has
not been started, is struck off in three months. That
is the big difference; this Bill was started. The hon.
senior member for St. Thomas spoke, and, speak-
ing under correction, I think that I was the second
person who spoke after that hon. member on the
same afternoon. How on earth did the Order appear
on the Order Paper as Order No. 2 on the next Tues-
day? I want the hon. member to understand that.
How did it get there? It had no right there.

The hon. senior member for the City's Bill
was not started. It appeared as Order No. 1 and he
took his chance as the Order appeared as No. 1,
but it should not have appeared as No. 2.

Mr. SPEAKER: Let me explain. The hon. mem-
ber has asked a question and he has repeated the
question to make it quite clear what the question is.
When this matter was first discussed and at all ma-
terial times, it was Order No. 2 on the Order Paper,
the fact that it was being discussed and time ran
out on it did not mean that, according to the pro-
cedure in respect of parliamentary matters, it was
then to be promoted to Order No. 1. It remained as
Order No. 2. It could have been promoted to Order
No. 1 so that the discussion could have been re-
sumed immediately we reverted to Private Mem-
bers' Business on another day, if only a request
had been made, and if it had been agreed to, if a
vote had been taken on it and the vote had decided
that it would be Order No. 1; but the mere fact that
we are discussing No. "X" and time ran out, does
not mean that that Order becomes the first thing
on the Order Paper for the next meeting. It does
not. It keeps to its original number, on the day when
it was being discussed unless an hon. member had
moved when the business for the next meeting was
being fixed and the motion was carried or it was
requested and there was no objection that it be pio-
moted to Order No. 1. That is why it has remained
as Order No. 2.

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, you said that I asked
a question and you gave a reply. How did this matter
come to be started as Order No. 2 and this Bill was
Order No. 1? How did it happen that the hon. senior
member for St. Thomas started it as Order No. 2
and I finished off with it as Order No. 2? How did it
get there for us to start it as Order No. 2? Well, I
will await that reply before I start to speak.How did
it get to be started as Order No. 2?

Hon. E. W. BARROW: On a point of order.

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, this is a matter for
you and me, it is not a matter for him. (Laughter)
It is a matter for you and me.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: On a point of order.

Mr. SPEAKER: (Standing) I will take on either
one or both together. (A PAUSE' The hon. member


,knows that I do not mean that seriously. The Hon.
and Learned Prime Minister rose and said: "On a
point of order", and I must listen to the point of
order. Of course, in any event, time is running out.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, my point
of order is very simple. It deals with the Order on
the Order Paper. The Standing Orders are provided
and so it did happen that the Orders should be called
in the sequence in which they appear on the Order
Paper. If Order No. 1 is called and the hon. senior
member for the City in whose name it stands, was
not in his place or he was not ready to go on with it.
then Order No. 2 is called and so on until the end
of the Order Paper. It is as simple as that. That
happens in here and it has been happening for the
twenty years that the hon.member has been a mem-
ber of this House and it still has not percolated......

Mr. SPEAKER: No, no. The point of order was
made quite clearly and concisely.

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, I still remember that
the Prime Minister said that I had nothing to say at
the time and that is what is happening. I will prove
to him that I have something to say. Now, Sir, I just
asked you that question and what the Prime Minister
said, I know that you know; but it looks to me as if
he cannot credit you with that much ability to reply
to me.I thought that he was coming down with some-
thing from the Temple at which he went to school,
Grays Inn or whatever Temple he learnt in.I thought
that he was bringing down something so that, poor
me, I would have to step to one side, and you and
the hon. member would talk. I did not know that it
was that simple thing he was coming with.

Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. member is between
two gentlemen of the long robe.

Mr. SMITH: Sir, the day is coming when you
will be hearing me say how I feel about these long
robe gentlemen. (Laughter) All of them. That day
is coming fast, I am not going to die before that
happens, although I expect one belonging to me will
be coming with a long robe too. Yet, I still have to
speak my mind.

Mr. SPEAKER: Speak before he comes then.
(Laughter)

Mr. SMITH: No, Sir, not before he comes. When
he comes I will tell him what to do. In fact, he is a
Smith. Now, Sir, this reads as follows:-

"Right of Members to direct the attention of
the Chair to supposed breaches of order." Hon.
members get up in here on points of order and make
speeches. I am going to read this.

"Although it is the duty of the Speaker to in-
terfere in the first instance for the preservation of
order when, in his judgment, the occasion demands
his interference, it is also the right of any member
who conceives that a breach of order has been com-
mitted, if the Speaker refrains from interfering







1657


either because he does not consider it necessary,
to do so or because he does not perceive that a
breach of order has been committed, to rise in his
place interrupting any member who may be speak-
ing and direct the attention of the Chair to the mat-
ter provided he does so the moment the alleged
breach of order occurs."
4.15 p.m.

Well, Sir, I would not go any further, for when
the Hon. Prime Minister got up I simply asked you
a question. That was not a breach. I feel that it is
my privilege and yours too, Sir; but he got up on a
point of order. I did not say anything about it. I did
not try to twist anything that he said. In other words
I was not even speaking to him. I was speaking to
you and he got up on a point of order.

I am still wondering and would like to know, if
the Bill was No. 1, how the Resolution could be
started on before the Bill. The Prime Minister said
that there could be a possibility that the hon. mem-
ber might not have been in his seat at the time that
you passed from No. 1 to No. 2. That is likely to
happen; but in this case the hon. member was in his
seat and I remember starting out so well and I
pointed out to the Chamber that the broadcasting
apparatus was not in its place.It was not fair......

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: On a point of order. The
hon. member is accusing me by inference of un-
fairness in the matter of the broadcast......


Mr. SMITH: I am not accusing the Minister.
He did not let me get so far, but I may.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: I said by inference. The
facts are as follows: when the time came......

Mr. SMITH: The Hon. Leader of the House should
sit. A breach of order has not been committed by
what I have said. That is known and you know it,
Sir. He is talking about inference. I have not in-
ferred anything about him. Not yet.

Mr. SPEAKER: The Hon. Leader of the House
rose on a point of order. I therefore have to listen
to the point, if any, to be made.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: The hon. member said that
he was disappointed because the facilities for broad-
casting his speech were not present. That is what I
understood him to say. I am saying that I had an-
nounced to the House that three speeches would be
broadcasted the speech of the Prime Minister,
the official speech from the Opposition and a reply
from the Government if necessary. That was said
and understood before the Budgetary Statement was
made.

Mr. SMITH: Sir......

Mr. SPEAKER: There is such a loud aside that
at times I can hardly hear the hon. senior member
for St. Joseph.


Mr. SMITH: Before I go on>is that a point of
order made by the Hon. Leader of the House?

Mr. SPEAKER: I so rule it.

Mr. SMITH: That it was?

Mr. SPEAKER: Yes.

Mr. SMITH: Thank you, Sir. (Asides)

Mr. SPEAKER: It is hard to hear the hon. mem-
ber with the noise at his immediate right for which
he is not responsible.

Mr. SMITH: Sir, I started out by lambasting the
Government for not having the apparatus in this
Chamber for the Opposition to speak so that the
electorate of this country could hear, I do not know
anything about the lion,Leader of the Hlouse promis-
ing about one speech or two speeches; but this I
would let the hon. member know here and now.

After I was so plain on it the Hon. Prime Min-
ister began to say, or to instruct rather, that the
apparatus should come, and the hon. junior member
for St. John told him "No, you cannot do that now
behind Cammie's back." He is there. Let him get up
and deny it. After all, the Prime Minister was will-
ing. Sometimes when you get him on the right side
he is as fair as a Bible. The hon. member for St.
John said: "You cannot do that; you would be ex-
posing Cammie;" or words to that effect.

When it comes to the point that we are dealing
with, we are doing the people's business. Regard-
less of how the Government looks at us over here
or looks at me, I am doing the people's business and
I will die doing the people's business until the time
comes for me to say it is finished,or my people say
it is finished. As long as lam here I will represent
the people of Barbados. It is not St. Joseph that I am
looking up to. I believe I will get more votes in St.
Michael than in-St. Joseph. It is not what we do, but
how we do it. If any member over there would take
a bet, I would bet him and leave St. Joseph and come
down here and I will be here again.

Now, Sir, it is not fair to us. I was not going to
say a thing. I think I told you this morning that I am
not talking on it, that I would just make a little joke
and sit down; but when the Prime Minister got up
and said that I had nothing to say that is insulting
my intelligence. He may not think I have any. He
started the ball rolling and I have decided to talk
until he brings the other budget.

We have to pay for the apparatus. We have to
pay for the broadcasting Corporation. Now, Sir, it
is so broad that it deals with spending money and
although I will not stray it is very elastic.
4.25 p.m.

I can hit at C.B.C. and remain in order. Now,
Sir, when the people of this country can sit and lis-
ten to the Hon. Prime Minister's,speech and the







1658


hon. senior member for St. Thomas' speech, and
they cannot hear the hon.: senior member for St.
Joseph's speech,this is a serious matter. I feel that
I am as much a representative in here I do not
mean in Bay Street as the Hon. Prime Minister.
He is not sitting in two seats and I in one. The peo-
ple in St. John have not elected him to two seats;
they elected him to one. The people in St. Joseph
elected me to one seat, and the people in St. Thomas
elected the hon. senior member for St. Thomas to
one. Why is there so much difference now? Those
are the people who have to pay for this apparatus,
and I have to pay for this apparatus. Is it fair now
to allow the Hon. Prime Minister and the hon. se-
nior member for St. Thomas to have their say and I
cannot have my say, too? The people in St. John
cannot come to St. Joseph and elect me; so why
should I sit back because a member of my Party
gets his say? I want mine, too.

Sir, you are an old politician and I should not
say this to you, or to most members on the other
side of the House, but we are all one until Election
Day. On Election Day every man has to take his
corner and he has to satisfy the electorate. I am
not going to let my Party prevent me from returning
here. I do not think that the Prime Minister of
course, he would be no use without-his Party; but if
it came to a show-down he would say: "Every man
for himself." Do not think I am going to sit here and
let it be said,as the hon. members on the other side
used to pester me with it, that I am a dumb man!

Mr. SPEAKER: I am afraid the hon. senior
member for St. Joseph will live to fight another day.
I do not mean that in any unpleasant way. We will
now deal with Government Business.

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, on a point
of explanation. I think the hon, member who has
just sat down should be aware that his Motion is
now Order No. 1, Order No. 1 having been dis-
posed of earlier. It has now reached the heights he
wanted it for a very long time.

Mr. SPEAKER: It is not now Order No. 1 be-
cause we are on Government Business, unless the
Government is prepared to give way.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: If the hon. member as-
sures me that he will wind up in five minutes, we
will be glad to give way.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, this is seri-
ously meant. If the hon. member wishes to dispose
of this item now the Prime Minister says that he
undertakes to vote for it, if he wishes to wind it up
within the next five minutes or so.

Mr, SPEAKER: May I point out that there are
other hon. members who have not yet spoken on the
matter.I am afraid I could not allow that very pleas-
ing gesture even to meet with the serious consider-
ation of the House. We will deal with Government
Business.


When the sittingwas suspended for the luncheon
interval, the House was discussing the Transport
Board Resolution in connection with queueing, and
the hon. junior member for St. Peter was address-
ing the House. If he desires to continue, this is now
his opportunity.

RESOLUTION TO APPROVE THE MOTOR
VEHICLES AND ROAD TRAFFIC
(AMENDMENT) REGULATIONS

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, I said earlier that
queueing is something that we on this side of the
House would like to see in operation, but there are
so many things lacking that we feel to make queue -
ing possible and workable there should be ticket-
vending machines at the bus stops or some of them.
There should be ticket agents at every bus termi-
nus, and we should have at peak hours, say, during
the morning hours, particularly when workers in
in the City and factories have to depend on the buses
to get them to their jobs, you should have tickets of
a special colour, which would make it much more
convenient for a conductor, if an intended passenger
presents a ticket of a particular colour maybe a
red ticket or whatever it is it gives that passenger
the prior right to travel at that particular time on
the bus, because what really happens now, Mr.
Speaker, is that quite a number of people wait for
very long periods on a bus, and, when a bus comes
along, people who have no special purpose for tra-
velling at that particular time often force themselves
on the bus and deny people who have legitimate busi-
ness of the right to travel at that particular time.

Now, in such a case, Mr. Speaker, you would
find that there should be a ticket available for in-
tended travellers who there is so much noise on
both sides of the House, Mr. Speaker......

Mr. SPEAKER: I have the good fortune only to
hear the hon. member.

Mr. HINDS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. What I am
saying is that there should be another type of ticket
for the casual traveller, that is, persons who do not
have any special business at any particular time.
That is why you should have ticket-vending machines
at certain bus poles, or at certain points near the
approaches to villages. That is the type of thing that
should be obtaining, if we really want to make a
success of this queueing system.

Again, Mr. Speaker, there are some passengers
who travel with a basket, or a bit of luggage, that is
allowed on the buses. There is also the passenger
who, at times, carries with him some luggage that
makes it a little difficult if he were called upon to
queue, because it would mean that a passenger who
is carrying an extra heavy package would arrive at
the bus stop and take up his position in the queue
with his luggage.
4.35 p.m.

If a passenger who is carrying an extra heavy
package arrives at a bus stop and takes up his po-
sition, it means that if a bus passes and could only








1659


_accommodate the passengers up to his point, he,
would have to move with his package so as to be the
first in line when the next bus passes. That is why
I say that some provision would have to be made to
accommodate persons carrying such packages in
excess of what the buses permit if we are going to
have a proper queueing system.

At this stage we should enquire of the Minister
of Communications and Works what is the Govern-
ment's policy with regard to the operation of pick-
ups and mini-buses, because I want to say here and
now that it cannot be denied that they fulfil a very
useful service in community travel and accomm,; -
dation, and unless something is done to protect them
and the travelling public, we do not know exactly
how successful queueing can really be, because we
know that many of these pick-up vans and mini-
buses have been carrying passengers with luggage
that cannot be carried in the modern-day buses. We
should therefore know if there is any decision
to (a) permit the increase in the number of pickups
and minibuses now on the road or (b) restrict the
assistance they now lend to the public, since we
know that on Routes 1 and 2 and elsewhere the po-
lice have been exercising considerable vigilance
over the activities of these mini-buses and pick-up
vans. The drivers of them do not know when they
are doing right from when they are doing wrong in
many instances, and the time has come when the
Government should not adopt this type of piecemeal
legislation. In other words, it should be established
once and for all whether the pickups and mini-buses
will be allowed to operate within prescribed limits,
provided they are not unduly interfering with the
buses on the routes; and since queueing is to be en-
gaged in, we are to wonder whether we are not to
expect queueing for those persons who intend tra-
velling by these pickups and mini-buses. The whole
question of the transporting of passengers whether
by the Transport Board, the Elite Bus Company and
the Rocklyn Bus Company has to be taken into con-
sideration.

I am sure, Mr. Speaker, that the Minister knows
the difficulty experienced by the many hawkers and
hucksters who have to depend on these vans which
take them up from points where there are no bus
stops, and thus perform a service which the buses
do not offer to the travelling public. If we are to
have a successful queueing system, Mr. Speaker, I
think we should seek to implement those few points
I have raised in respect of vending machines, the
issuing of what might be called a master ticket,
first travel ticket, or whatever name is best suited
so as to prevent persons from being left by the
buses, and give preference to people who have a job
to go to over persons who have not got to travel
at specific times.

I heard the Minister mention the punishment
which would be meted out to those who contravene
the law with respect to queueing, but it is not good
enough to have policemen in uniform in readiness to
pounce upon those people who do not queue or at
-tempt to get a seat on a bus without observing the


,law with respect to queueing. After you have made
every necessary provision for the protection of the
intended passenger, then one is safe in having the
police exercise all the vigilance possible to see that
the law is observed; but if, as I said, there are peo-
ple who have a job to go to, certainly some-
thing should be done to help them, and in the case
of workers employed by firms and business houses
a system should be arranged whereby the workers
can have special tickets bought for them in advance
to cover their weekly travel, which ticket should be
of a particular colour or description to entitle the
holder, if he presents himself at the bus stop at the
specific hour, to be accommodated on the bus, pro-
vided there is room.

I think I have made my points, Mr. Speaker,
and if they are gone into. I think it would help to
make queueing to be appreciated by the travelling
public, and I am sure that everybody will do every-
thing possible to make it a success. As I said, pro-
vide those necessities where people can go to the
bus stops and insert their coins for the distance
they intend to travel.
4.45 p.m.

Not only that,Sir'; it will also assist the Trans-
port authorities and it would assist the concession-
aires in a very great measure because it would
reduce the bungling which takes place between the
Inspector and the conductor on the question of the
waybill. Believe me, Sir, I doubt whether some of
these waybills could really and truly be checked
whether by the Transport authorities or by the other
two concessionaires; but, in any case, we are just
asking that these things be attended to before queue-
ing is really introduced.

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, I have
come at the end of this queue, and I do not intend to
keep either myself or other hon. members waiting
for the bus for too long. I heard the Minister in-
troduce this Resolution in terms of the necessity
for controlling the crowds going to see "King Kong"
or Richard Dix at the Empire Theatre, and I was
really not aware that we were dealing with the crowds
at the Empire Theatre today. I do not think we were
controlling the crowds at the Yankee Stadium, if
Shamos O'Brien ever drew anything which would be
called a crowd. (Laughter) Mr. Speaker, the Minis-
ter has had his say. He said that the previous Gov-
ernment did not do anything about the problem of
queueing, but there is a little history, a little par-
liamentary history......

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: On a point of order. Mr,
Speaker, I really did not intend to interrupt anybody
on the opposite side in his speech, but this is the
third or fourth speaker on the opposite side who
made this statement. I never said that a particular
Government did not do anything about the problem
of queueing; what I said was that the Governments
of the 1930s and the early 1940s, but apparently I
mashed somebody's sore foot.
Mr. SPEAKER: That is not a point of order;
that is a point of explanation.








1660


Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, the ne
cessity for queueing perhaps has only developed
during and since the late war. I refer to the war
with which the Prime Minister claims familiarity,
and I do not really think that the Government of the
late 1930s or 1940s could altogether be blamedfor
not introducing queueing before. As it is,Mr.
Speaker, I am sure that from your vast experience
and knowledge not only of the Road Traffic Regula-
tions of this fair Island, but also of Britain, you
will be aware that the Resolution today follows very
closely on the Regulations now in force in Britain
and, no doubt, such arguments as I heard you your-
self express as to the desirability to make fewer
than six persons queue, I am sure, have been con-
sidered and have not found favour; but certainly the
argument which you yourself mentioned to me, that
you can still get a situation at a bus stop when two
old ladies are standing up waiting to catch a bus and
three tough, strong persons, may be Hamus, Ramus
and perhaps Shamos, come forward and will be able
legally to force the old ladies aside and thrust their
way into the bus. I have no doubt that the legal ex-
perts who are responsible for advising the Minister
and his Ministry have advised them on this point,
but Mr. Speaker, the Minister should not speak as
if this matter is coming into the laws of Barbados
de novo because there is a long history with this
queueing Resolution.

Way back before the Democratic Labour Party
took office, before the Minister, I believe, was Min-
ister of Communications and Transport, recom-
mendations had been made as to the introduction of
a system of queueing and they came into fruition in
1965 when Regulations were then made by the Di-
rector of Highways and Transport. Those are the
Regulations which are referred to in Paragraph
3 of the instant Resoluton which is Legal Notice
No. 25 of 1965, when Mr. Hayward produced Regu-
lations for queueing, but the Government left those
Regulations not brought into force until on the 13th
February this year. I must really be pardoned if I
suggest that it is remarkable that the Minister, in
introducing his speech about this Resolution, could
not make reference to the fact that Question No. 147
on the Order Paper calls on the Government to in-
troduce a system of queueing, because on the 13th
February, I asked'the Minister in this House to in-
troduce a system of queueing and now, in May, such
a system is introduced. You only had to look at the
Order Paper; it is on page 9 at the bottom right-hand
corner, Question No. 147.

I would also like to draw to the Minister's at-
tention the incompetence on the earlier occasion
when, in 1965, Regulations to bring queueing into
force, Regulations to impose a system of queueing
were made I would like to draw his attention to
the incompetence of the then legal advisers, who-
ever they were, evidently to take account of the fact
that all amendments to the Motor Vehicles and Road
Traffic Regulations have to be brought to the House
to be debated here. In 1965, what was done was that
the Regulations were drafted as if they were subject
to negative Resolution and not to affirmative. I think


the Minister will find that that is the reason why it
has been necessary to revoke the earlier law re-
lating to queueing and introduce this particular
Resolution which is to be debated in the House.
Nevertheless, I do not intend to differ from what
hon. members who have spoken on this side of the
House have said, but, as my Question suggested in
February, I am certainly very glad that a system
of queueing at bus termini and stopping places is
now going to be instituted in Barbados; and I can
give the Minister notice that I will not require an
answer to Question No. 147 because the Minister,
by introducing this Resolution, has answered my
Question and given me very full satisfaction indeed
on the point. I do not think that the Minister could
deny that that Question was well founded in justice
and in commonsense as far as queueing at bus stands
in Barbados is concerned.
4.55 p.m.

I welcome it. The only thing is Paragraph (lA)
which says that the persons to whom this applies
must comply with the lawful directions of any mem-
ber of the Police Force in uniform. It seems to be
such as to make people think that perhaps they do
not have to comply with the lawful directions of a
member of the Police Force in uniform in respect
of other activities carried on in the bus stands, be-
cause as far as I know if a policeman tells people
not to use obscene language, not to spit in a bus or
not to use the bus stand as a urinal and they do not
obey, they will be visited with the severe penalties
of the law. They will be punished if they fail to obey
his directions on that occasion as they will be if they
attempt to break queues or fail to form queues.

I welcome the Resolution, and I am wondering if
the Minister in his reply will say that he welcomed
my question.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, no one could
have thought that such a simple Resolution would
have taken from 12 down to 5 o'clock; but I would
say again, I believe I am not too sure that the
Leader of the Government has to carry some of this
blame because I have warned him repeatedly. I do
not eat in here, and if no food comes in we will get
through with the legislation much more quickly.
(Asides)

Mr. SPEAKER: Now......

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, I cannot sit here and
allow the Minister to be talking about if no food
comes in here. That is real, real gutter snipping.
I am surprised at him. He should be down on the
wharf catching cray fish or flies or something. I
would not stand here and hear that from anything
like him.
Mr. SPEAKER: I did not know to what the Hon.
Minister was leading up, but it would seem that he
made an unfortunate beginning. Will the Minister
proceed to deal with this queueing Resolution?

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: You are entitled to your
opinion and so am I. You may feel that I made an








1661


unfortunate beginning, but I do not feel so. Strangely
enough, I seem to have offended someone because
when I did so I heard a lot of epithets being used.
I am not asking you to ask anybody to withdraw any-
thingthathe said because I do not intend to withdraw
anything either.

One would have thought, Mr. Speaker, that a
simple matter like this should have had the blessing
of this Chamber. ('sides)

Mr. SPEAKER: I regret that the gavil seems to
be mislaid.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Apparently, Mr. Speaker,
I have said something; some innuendo has been
wrongfully or wrongly. I am sorry if I offended the
senior member for St. Joseph when I mentioned
food. I am very sorry I offended him.

I have said here before, Mr. Speaker, and I would
continue to say, if anyone doubts,watch when o'clock
comes in here during a debate and you will see a
stampede to get to the......

Mr. SPEAKER: That does not arise. The ques-
tion of queueing does not arise in respect of that.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, they do not
queue up for dinner. Strange enough, that is why we
had this long talk because they think that I am going
to insist that they queue up to get into the mess hall.

Mr. SPEAKER: Please deal with the Resolution.
(MEM'3ERS: Shame, shame.)

Hon. N, W. BOXILL: Who is talking about shame?

Mr. SPEAKER: Let the Hon. Minister proceed
and let him proceed in silence.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: There is no one who can
stop me from speaking. 1 intend to speak, and if you
don't want to hear, go outside. Can I be allowed to
speak without being interrupted by the hon, senior
member for the City?

Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. member will be al-
lowed to speak without being interrupted by anybody.
Let the hon. member speak on the Resolution.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: About three weeks ago I
said in this same Chamber when we were speaking
about Dr. Martin Luther King......

Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a point of
order.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Yes, Mr. Speaker......

Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. member for the City
has risen on a point of order.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: He has not said that he is
on a point of order.


Mi. SPEAKER: He so said. Let me aot be con-
tradicted by any member of the House.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: I have my rights as any-
one else.

Mr. SPEAKER: Not to contradict the Chair. (A
MEMBER: Name him, Sir.)

Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Speaker, what have I done
that the hon. member referred to me? (Asides)

Mr. SPEAKER: Let the hon. member make his
point of order.

lIon. N. W. 3OXILL: That is just like all the
other things that take place in here wasting time.
I said a few weeks ago in this Chamber that the
world has failed because man within himself is a
failure. When I was introducing this Resolution to-
day I particularly said to the members on the op-
posite side of the Chamber that this was a matter
for all of us, as leaders of the community, to try
to make sure that it would work. From the begin-
ning everyone on the opposite side started off by
saying that this might fail.

Mr. J. M. C. M. ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, on a
point of explanation. As a member who has spoken,
I ask the Minister not to include particularly this
hon. member if he is suggesting that I said that it
must fail.

Mr. SPEAKER: I have heard no such sugges-
tion about the hon. and learned member for St.
Thomas.
lion. N. W. 13OX1LL: This is the only time 1
have got up and now 1 am not allowed to speak. I did
not interrupt anyone. 1 can stay here the whole
night. (A MEMBER: You cannot sav that anyone
said that it must fail.)

Mr. MOTTLEY: lie said so and I am saying
that it is not trie. 1 said that it was long overdue.
Why should he say that anyone over here said that
it must fail?

Mr. SPEAKER: I trust that the junior member
for St. Thomas will proceed without interruptions.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Should such a simple mat-
ter that every one wants to succeed take so long?
What I was saying, Mr. Speaker, when I spoke just
now about man being a failure 1 heard speakers in
here today saying that you will have to have police-
men in uniform at every bus stop. If the society in
which we are living is such that we need policemen
to tell us right from wrong, it is a sick society.

Furthermore, I never said for one momentthat
you must have policemen in uniform to arrest some-
body. The Police are there to see that law and or-
der is carried out. Why does it say policemen in
uniform? We are all Barbadians and we know that
we have some quacks going around trying to fool








1662


people. If they are not policemen, sometimes they.
are doctors or someone from National Insurance.
That is the reason why we had this written in po-
licemen in uniform; but it does not mean that the
policeman is there for the sole purpose of appre-
hending people.

Every day policemen come in here, at least
they are in the yard. I do not know the last day a
policeman in the yard arrested anybody. All that the
Regulations are asking the general public to do is
to obey a police officer in uniform; but I want to
point out to the senior member for St. Joseph that a
policeman, as far as I know, unlike any other man
in the community, is never off-duty. A policeman
leaves his post to go home to see his family. Im-
mediately he gets home something happens in his
vicinity and everyone wants to know if a policeman
is on the beat and he has to go out to keep order.
5.05 p.m.
Even a police in civilian clothes, who happens
to be at a bus stop and sees disorder taking place,
can produce his badge I believe policemen carry
some form of identification card and say: 'I am
a policeman, and I am asking you to comply with
the law." That is all. But for the length of time
spent on this matter, one would have thought that I
would have got something constructive coming from
the other side of the Ilouse. I am always willing to
accept suggestions from the other side. What do I
pet in here today? I was almost vilified for coming
in here with this matter.

Furthermore, Mr. Speaker, I am sure that the
hon, senior member for St.Thomas, if he were on
the scene, could not get pass ''Tyrol Cot", because'
he was not allowed to play with other black children
like us. lie would not have known about "King Kong"
and Richard Dix in the days of the Olympic and the
Empire which I spoke of.l was not using any epithet,
or any bad meaning, towards the Party which he has
the misfortune to belong to.,...

Mr. .. M. G. M. ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, I not
only remember "King Kong", but I seem to re-
member a short, fat gentleman, looking something
like Shamos O'Brien, being ejected by the police
the same night that I saw "King Kong" at the Olym-
pic, if lie wants to know.

Mr. SPEAKER: I heard the hon, and learned
senior member for St. Thomas state a point of or-
derWhat is it that he has submitted for my decision.

Mr. J. M. G. M, ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, what I
am submitting for your decision is an involved point
of order. The Rules of the House of Assembly are
now under consideration by a Select Committee,
and while the law prevents us, Mr. Speaker, from
going into what has been discussed at the Select
Committee, for example, you are not allowed to
say that certain hon. members Mr. Speaker, I
will not say it even though it relates to acts of spite
over and above, for example, what was done in No-
vember last year when the hon. junior member for
St.Joseph and the hon. senior member for St. James
were suspended......


Mr. SPEAKER: That cannot be a point of order.

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, you have
asked me to explain what my point of order is.

Mr. SPEAKER: If there is a point to explain.

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: I am trying to explain
it, Mr. Speaker. Look at it in this way: the hon. ju-
nior member for St. Thomas......

Hon. N. W. BOXILL rose......

Mr. SPEAKER: There are two hon. members
on their feet and, again, we are getting perilously
near to that which constitutes grave disorder, al-
though we are so near the end of the day's meet-
ing and this remaining Resolution.

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, on a
point of order. What I am saying, in effect, is this:
the hon. junior member for St. Thomas said I would
not know anything about "King Kong" because I was
not allowed to go across the doors of "Tyrol Cot"
to play with little black children like him,

Mr. Speaker, if that is a proper remark to be
made in the House of Assembly; if an outrageous
lie like that, a disgraceful lie, is a proper remark
to be made in this House, it has to be treated fri-
volously. I have treated it frivolously by saying that
if I did not go to "King Kong", then the police put
him out. That is all, Mr. Speaker, but it has a little
realism about things. If he wants to say something
ignorant, and he cannot understand what hon. mem-
bers are saying when they reply......

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, he said that
maybe when he went to see "King Kong", I was be-
ing apprehended by the policeman. That is possible.
I would never be above a policeman apprehending
me, unlike some of his family.

Mr. SPEAKER: Will the hon. member proceed?

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: I will proceed. 1 want him
to understand that he cannot get lower than me, no
matter how he tries.I know him better than he knows
me, Getting back to queueing up (Interruption) He
got arrested for procuring in England. (An hon.
member: What is procuring?) Pimping and living on
immoral earnings.

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: Is the hon. gentleman
saying that any member on this side, particularly
myself, has ever been arrested for living on im-
moral earnings?
Mr. SPEAKER:The hnn. member could not dare
say that in this House.
Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: Thank you, Mr.
Speaker, First, it is not true, and, second, even if it


Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Nobody expects you to say
it is true.

Mr. SPEAKER: Will the Hon. Minister proceed
with his business?








1663


Hon. N. W. BOXILL: I am proceeding; he is my
business, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. SPEAKER: I am afraid, not outside St.
Thomas.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: The hon. senior member
for St. Joseph said that in order to have this queue-
ing implemented and effective, we would have to put
a policeman at every bus stop. I consider this to be
a very puerile statement, because in the countries
where queueing is done you do not even see police-
men close to the bus stops.

The hon. senior member for St. James saidthat
in the subways in New York there is always a stam-
pede to get into the train, but what he did not say,
Mr. Speaker, is that the trains are almost 200 yds.
long, and when the driver is up to the front of the
train, it is only allowed to stop for a certain amount
of seconds; therefore, you have to board a train
quickly. If you miss one you will catch another, but
that is something completely different from waiting
at a bus stop. In a subway the driver does not have
to look to see who are boarding the train.

Mr. Speaker, when you are waiting at a bus
stop, the driver knows that you are likely to board
his bus. You cannot compare these two things. The
senior member for St. Joseph went on to speak about
people working in town on the highways during peak
hours and so on. If he is referring to the Mitchell
Construction Company, these people have to put in
the pipes and repair the road for use by the Public
as quickly as possible. I do not take that as an in-
surmountable matter, or anything that should be
mentioned here.
5.15 p.m.

I am going to say again to all the members on
the opposite side not to start off this queueing with
a defeatist attitude hoping within their hearts that it
would fail. It seems to me, Mr. Speaker, that those
who were high and mighty and in their lofty castles
enjoyed the situation of which I spoke earlier at the
Olympic and Empire Theatres as well as what was
going on in the bus stand, and they are annoyed with
me now because I have decided to call a halt. It is
their duty as well as ours and that of the entire com-
munity to see that this works. It is true that you are
going to get some people who want to disobey the law.
You get these in every walk of life and there are no
exceptions here; but it is the majority that counts
in everything you go to do, and if those people who
rush constantly to get into a bus before people who
were there discover that they are in the minority,
they will eventually join the line like anybody else.
I am therefore appealing to all and sundry to assist
in making this queueing the success which we are
hoping it will be.

The question that this Resolution do now pass was put and
resolved in the affirmative without division.

Mr. SPEAKER: That, if I mistake not, concludes
Government Business for the day.


Hon. A. *DaC. EDWARDS: Earlier today, Mr.
Speaker, you mentioned that amendments to the Dairy
Industry Bill were referred to thisChamber from the
Other Place.

Mr. SPEAKER: I thank the hon. member for re-
minding me. I will enquire of the Leader of the House
whether he thinks it necessary to have copies made.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: I do not think it is
necessary, Mr. Speaker. There are just typogra-
phical errors. On page 5 for example, there is just
the substitution of the term "dairy keeper" for the
word "person". This read before "as fromthe com-
mencement of this Act no person shall sell or offer
for sale any milk, etc. etc." With the amendment it
would read "as from the commencement of this Act
no dairy keeper shall sell or offer for sale any milk
unless he has first been granted by the appropriate
authority a dairy keeper's licence".

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, if the hon.
member would give way......

Mr. SPEAKER: Has the hon. member concluded?

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, the hon.
member has given way. It does not appear to me that
that is an amendment, with all due respecttothe
Other Place, that we can accept, and I am respect-
fully going to suggest that we have a look at that; and
I will give you an illustration of what I mean. If a
person does not have a driver's licence, you do not
say "no unlicensed driver shall drive a car without
a driver's licence." You say "no person". I think
perhaps hon. members had better have a look at
these amendments because in good faith they may
have thought they were improving on our draft, but
they may have messed it up, to put it in a polite way.

Mr. SPEAKER: I will instruct that these amend-
ments be printed and circulated.

Will the hon. senior member for St. Andrew not
seek to proceed further this afternoon?

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: As Your Honour pleases

Mr. SPEAKER: Copies will be printed and cir-
culated to hon. members in due course.

ADJOURNMENT

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, this concludes
our business for today's meeting.

The Order Paper having been fixed.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move
that this House do now adjourn until Tuesday, 28th
May, 1968, at 2.30 p.m.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: I beg to second that.
The question was put and resolved in the affirmative with-
out division, and Mr. SPEAKER adjourned the House accordingly.
5.24 p.m.











THE


SENATE DEBATE





(OFFICIAL REPORT)


SECOND SESSION OF 1966 71


THE SENATE
Thursday, July 20, 1967.
The Senate met in the Senate Chamber, Pub-
lic Buildings, at (4 o' clock p.m. today.)

PRESENT

His Honour Senator E. S. ROBINSON, C.B.E.,
(President); His Honour Senator C. Asquith
PHILLIPS, B.A., (Deputy President); Senator the
Honourable H.A. VAUGHAN, O.B.E., Q.C., (Min-
ister of State and Leader of the Senate); Senator the
Honourable P. M. GREAVES, B.A. (Minister of
Home Affairs); Senator the Honourable F. G.
SMITH, Q.C., (Attorney General); Senator C. L.
BRATHWAITE, Senator H. Odessa GITTENS
M.R.S.H. (Parliamentary Secretary); Senator H. F.
ALKINS, Senator F. C. H. CAREW, Senator Dr.
R. B. CADDLE, B.Sc., M.B.B.S., Senator S. V.
ASHBY, Senator F. L. WALCOTT, O.B.E., Senator
E. Lisle WARD, SenatorW. W. BLACKMAN, M.B.E.,
Senator P. G. MORGAN, SenatorS. A. BLANCHETTE.
ABSENT
Senator D. A. WILES, C.M.G., O.B.E., Senator
Erma ROCK, Senator R. G. MAPP, Senator N. A.
BARROW, B.A., Senator C. G. JOHNSON.
Prayers were said.

EXCUSES FOR ABSENCE

The Clerk informed the Senate that he had been
asked to offer excuses for the absence of Senator
D. A. Wiles, Senator Erma V. Rock and Senator
R. G. Mapp from the day's meeting.

PAPERS

Senator the Honourable H. A. Vaughan, Minister
of State and Leader of the Senate, laid the following
papers:-

Statements showing Net Customs and Ex-
cise Receipts for two (2) months ended 31st May,
1967.

Statement showing Net Customs and Ex-
cise Receipts for three (3) months ended 30th June
1967.


The Civil Establishment (General) (Amend-
ment) (No. 9) Order, 1967.

The Public Officers Loan and Travelling
Allowances (Amendment) (No. 3) Regulations, 1967.

The Customs Duties (Amendment) (No. 3)
Order, 1967.


The Customs Duties (Miscellaneous Pro-
visions) (No. 2) Order, 1967.



BILL TO AMEND PACKAGE TAX ACT, 1941

The President called the first Order -- A
Bill to amend the Package Tax Act, 1941.

SENATOR THE HON. H. A. VAUGHAN: Mr. Presi-
dent, -- The purpose of this Bill is to amend the
Package Tax Act of 1941-6 so as to impose an
additional tax of 25 cents on every package of goods
which exceeds 56 lbs in weight.

The goods referred to are those not in the
first Schedule to the Act. That is important as there
seems to be some misconception as to the scope
and extent of this proposed tax. First of all, let me
remind senators that in the Package Tax Act there
are two schedules. In one Schedule there are listed
certain articles which are deemed to be packaged
by certain criteria.

Sir, it is not the first Schedule which is brought
within the ambit of this Bill, but those other art-
icles which are listed in the second Schedule of the
Package Tax Act.




By the Act of 1941 a tax of 12 cents was im-
posed on every package which was brought into the
island. In 1962 that was raised to 25 cents and the
proposal in this Bill is to raise it by an additional
sum of 25 cents. Wherever a package exceeds 56 lb
or part of 56 lb you have to pay an additional 25
cents on the 56 lb or part thereof.











Now, Sir, there are two other important things.
There is no suggestion on the part of the Govern-
ment that merchants have been evading the law or
have been using some underhand manoeuvre in or-
der to avoid paying a fair amount of package tax.

I want to make that clear because there is a
suggestion that the very introduction of this Bill and
the language which was used in the Other Place
when the Bill was introduced impliedly suggested
that it is a means of getting around some evasion
on the part.of.the.mercantile community. If bundling
is going to be hit by this amendment it must be re-
membered up to this moment bundling is not
an offence against the law.

The true position is that the Government is
none too sure that the increase in the tonnage
of goods coming into the island has been adequately
reflected in the .increase in package tax. The point
is whether the increase in tonnage of goods coming
to the island and which are liable to package tax is
adequately reflected in the increase in package tax.
Official information is that it is not. I am sorry
that I do not have the tonnage figures here sir.

Thirdly, Sir, I would like to say that contrary
to what has been suggested subtly in certain quar-
ters, this tax will not hit basic comestibles of the
majority of the population because all of those are
in the first Schedule andwhichex hypothesis are not
affected by this Bill at all. Things like charcoal,
coffee, fish, rice and canned meat do not come
within the purview of this Bill at all; so there is no
question of the cost of living rising or the articles
mostly used by the majority of the population being
increased in price.

Undoubtedly, however, there are other articles
which will be hit by the Bill, although it is highly
probable that in some instances the increase in the
cost of the article would be so small that it would
not be worthwhile passing on; or to put it the other
way, it would be difficult to pass it on.

The Government expects that the mercantile
community will absorb any infinitesimal increase.
Where the increase is a moderate one the correct
thing to do, I suggest, would be to increase the cost
of the article by as nearly as possible the amount of
the tax. If, for instance, the increase in the tax is
say 10 cents a pound, to make the increased cost to
the customer 50 cents or 60 cents would be just not
equitable. I am not suggesting that that will be done,
but those are probabilities which one should men-
tion.

There has been some mention of a certain
amount of apprehension as to what will happen in
the initial stages of the collection of this tax. That
is something that can be expected when a new
measure is being adopted, and that when new pro-
cedures are being adopted there will be some diffi-
culties in getting started. On the other hand, I think
that the Customs is adequate, if any difficulties
arise, to deal with them with exemplary fortitude,


4nd a directive has been issued with respect to cal-
culating the weight of articles where there is a
question of gross and net weight. There is no need
for me at this stage of the debate to read them out
to members, but I have here a list of instructions
which have been issued to staff of the Customs and
which provide for the adequate ascertaining of the
tax when there is a question of gross and net.

As a matter of fact, with the exception of goods
listed in the first schedule, package tax is to be
charged on the gross weight. Then, there are var-
ious proposals with regard to net weight, and spec-
ial provision is made when cold storage is concerned.
Ineednot go into all the details of that except some
member wants it for himself.

Those Sir, are the main provisions in the Bill.
This is one of those measures which were men-
tioned in the Other Place in the course of the budget
speech. There has not been a general revision of
this tax for a long time, and all things considered,
it seems to be equitable as the population increases,
as the volume of trade and the volume of goods
coming into the country increases, as the needs of
the community increase, as well as the need for
governmental assistance, the cost of administration
and the need for more social legislation.

Of course more money has to be found to do all
these things. No Minister of Finance taxes a com-
munity for sport or merely to be able to say "I am
taxing the community." I have here the figures of
the additional revenue estimated to come from the
amended tax. Last week Senator Alkins asked, and
I promised to give him the figures with respect to
the various items. The estimated increase is
$360,000. As other measures come up for consid-
eration I will be willing to give information as to
the estimated amount of revenue, or after the
meetings I will circulate it.

I move, Sir, that the Bill be read a second time.

Senator C. L. Brathwaite seconded the motion.

SENATOR H. F. ALKINS: Mr. President, -- I
had intended to make a few observations on this
Bill; but I find myself in a difficult position because
the hon. Minister seems to have made my speech
for me. He has raised the points that I wanted to
raise.

First of all, this Bill is part of the budgetary
proposals. We hope to spend about $5 million to $6
million and this is one of the ways of raising the
revenue that is necessary. This is a means of rais-
ing an additional $360,000. With that I do not think
that anyone would find fault.

In any case, Sir, package tax is nothing new.
It has been in existence from 1941. My observations
are intended to cover a somewhat wider field. In the
first place, it appeared to me regrettable from
reading Press reports that the impression should
have been given that this Bill was necessitated by











the 'act .hat merchants had adopted some low dodge
and that because of this they were evading package
tax and therefore something had to be done about it.

The Minister of Finance himself did not say
that, but anyone who reads the Press reports would
realize that words to that effect or implying that
were used by various members of the Other Place
including some Government members.

No one could possibly say that bundling is a low
dodge. Since 1941 when package tax came into being
the methods of handling goods in ports have altered.
There is no doubt that traders, in order to cut down
their expenses, have asked their suppliers to send
them their goods in as few packages as possible.
What is there wrong with that? To suggest or to im-
ply that this is something under the counter and
something that should not be done is extremely re-
grettable.

Iam pleased indeed that the hon. Minister him-
self has corrected that impression.

Secondly, even Government members in the
Other Place, again going by Press reports, wanted
to give the impression, or the impression wpuld be
.'given that this measure would not affect the costof
living. How can you impose indirect taxation of this
sort without its affecting someone? Someone has to
pay for it in the long run.

I do not think that this measure is a particular-
ly onerous one or that it will cause any vast in-
crease in prices. I do not have the facts to show
that the cost of this or that will be increased, but the
cumulative effect is bound to affect the cost of
living in the long run.

You have just started national insurance and
you had to take on additional clerical staff. As I
have said, the cumulative effect of all these things
is bound to be felt in the long run. To say that
these things will not affect the cost of living is
wrong. The community must be made to know that if
they want better roads, better hospitals and other
better services they must be paid for.

Now, Sir, the Minister made a point and I am
glad that he did so -- about the difficulty of admin-
istration, One thing which it is bound to cause is an
increase in clerical work in offices and in the Cus-
toms. It is regrettable, but it will also cause delay
in the Customs where there is already a good deal
of delay in the passing of warrants. Anything that
will intensify this delay is certainly not desirable.

Here I think that I should.say a word of praise
to the Ministry concerned and to the Customs itself
for, the smoothness with which this Act has been
operating since its inception. The requisite direc-
tive was issued promptly and the Customs have been
acting with tolerance and commonsense. As a result
there have been no_-hold.ups, and no difficulties. One
can only hope that this same tolerance and common-
sense will be continued when the period of the


directive which, I understand is limited, comes to
an end and the application of the Act becomes more
rigid.

I presume that time is being given to the mer-
chants to notify their suppliers that in invoicing
goods they must give the weights of the individual
packages. Sometimes when these weights are given
more often than not you get the gross weight. Some
suppliers may want to know why they should do it
just in the case of Barbados, but on the whole I
think that suppliers will be willing to assist. I know
that merchants have already asked their suppliers
to do all that they can in this respect, and I hope
that the Ministry and the Customs, if they see that
an effort is being made to see that this thing is run
smoothly will exercise a certain degree of toler-
ance and discretion so that no snags will be en-
countered.

SEN,:ATOR THE HON. F. G. SMITH: Mr. Presi-
dent, --This Bill forms part of the budgetary pro-
posals of the Prime Minister who is also Minister
of Finance. If I may be pardoned, let me say that
Barbados is extremely fortunate in having a man as
Minister of Finance who is no fireside economist
but who in terms of knowledge of economics can
hold his own with anyone.

We have gone past the stage where our only
concentration should be on constitutional develop-
ment, and it is refreshing to find that even the Op-
position can find so little to criticise in the budget-
ary proposals of the hon. Minister of Finance. It is
refreshing to hear a member of the mercantile
community get up and defend and support this Bill
because the impression given in other places was
that the merchants in this community are men with
no courage, but men who will swallow anything
which the Government thrusts down their throats.

I am deeply grateful to Senator Alkins for what
he has said about the contribution which the com-
munity has to make to an independent country. It is
time that you start telling people in all walks of life
that they cannot get away with a "freeness".I can
say that Barbadians enjoy more freenesses than any
other country in the Caribbean, and it is time that
they realized that if the cost of living goes up, if
they contribute more, it is in the interest of gaining
self respect and their place in the- sun by reason of
being independent.

I am certain, sir, that if the cost of living goes
up, every section of the community will play its
part -- the doctor, the lawyer, the merchant and
every single person in this community.

In the Other Place you found that figures were
trotted out, and were swallowed hook, line and sink-
er by the Press. When these fireside economists
trot out figures youcangetsome peculiar conclu-
sions.

Now, Sir, in 1961-62 package tax accounted for
$247,945 when the tax was 12 cents, and this was


_~












used as a basis for future increases. The Minister
of Finance who judges his words carefully, said
that package tax was being eroded. He knew what he
was talking about.

In 1961-62 the amount, as I have said, was
$247,945 at the rate of 12 cents a package. In 1962-
63 the amount went to $479,496. That was the year
when it was increased to 25 cents. There was an in-
crease because one year it was 12 cents and the
next year it was 25 cents.

In 1963-64 it was $588,099 and import duty was
$8,166,811. In 1965-66 it dropped to $566,000 and in
1966-67 it is $591,590.

It is interesting to note that in the year 1961-
62 the tax accounted for $247,945 when import duty
totalled $7 million, and in 1966-67 when import duty
is over $10 million, package tax accounts for
$591,590.

Something must have happened along the line
and it alerted the Minister of Finance to the fact that
although import duty had increases by $3 million, he
would not get from package tax the amount that he
was expected to get.

Naturally this piece of legislation will increase
the cost of living, but it is spread out over the
whole community and is not falling on particular
shoulders. It will bring in revenue which is ne-
cessary to help us shoulder our burdens.

I have quoted these figures to show what the
Minister of Finance meant when he said that this
tax was being eroded. It is the Government's feel-
ings, and no doubt those of all sections of the com-
munity that the mercantile community will not take
advantage of any increase that will arise from this
change, and that they too will be fully conscious of
their duties in an independent nation. I am sure that
they will all play their part and shoulder their re-
sponsibilities.

SENATOR S. A. BLANCHETTE: Mr. President,
-- I rise to support the two previous speakers. In
doing so, I too would like to pay tribute to our
Prime Minister and Minister of Finance for having
introduced a tax which I' do not think any of us will
argue against. This tax will be spread over a wide
area, and some protection is given to the masses of
our country that there are certain types of mer-
chandise to which this tax does not apply at all.

Sir, I am not an economist myself; but when
one says that the value of our imports has in-
creased, but package tax has not increased propor-
tionately, there is no.-question that anyone has been
over loading packages.

We have had a series of increases in our mer-
chandise and another in our freight rates, which
does not affect the package tax because the same
number of packages come in.7The jump in the value
of merchandise does not affect this tax.


I must say that from reports in the Press there
was supposed to be the impression given in the
Other Place that the merchants were apparently
using bad practices to evade taxation. Let me say
for the benefit of those who are not in business that
in many instances the packaging of merchandise has
increased and not decreased.

Sometimes the packaging of goods is nothing to
do with the merchants of this country. It is done at
the other end in accordance with standard
methods of packaging goods for export all over the
world. I think that it was unjust and unkind to sug-
gest that merchants were setting out to use some
malpractice designed to get away from paying this
form of taxation, when we have been doing our best
to assist in the proper running of this country.

This tax is an extremely fair one, although as
an individual I would have preferred an increase in
surtax, leaving the package tax alone because you
would have less trouble for clerks both those of the
merchants and those of the Customs. Where the in-
crease in package tax is concerned a great deal of
clerical work will have to be put in, and one won-
ders if the amount you will get in increased taxation
would not be more advantageously got by an in-
crease in the surtax which could be simply moved
from say 10 per cent to 12 1/2 per cent. However,
I would support the Bill.

SENATOR W. W. BLACKMAN: Mr. President,
I am going to support the Bill; but from what
one saw in the Press, it caused one to doubt what
would be the outcome of these proposals. The Min-
ister of State and the Attorney General and the two
merchants sitting on my right have eased my fears,
and I am pleased to hear that this proposal is a
correct one. I still think that the Government
should be alertand see that nothing adverse is done
to the consumers.

SENATOR F. L. WALCOTT: Mr. President, --
I am pleased to hear the comments of previous
members. I think that there is a tendency in Bar-
bados even among Government members, to try to
justify something by saying that it will not increase
the cost of living. What do you mean? You have to
look at your economic situation before talking about
the cost of living. You cannot in one breath expect
that the gross domestic product will continue to
rise without' expecting that some of your charges
will be bound to go up. The reason is that there is
more money available with which people can pur-
chase. The result is that more money is spent, and
not that things are bought at higher prices.

When you have a certain fiscal policy I think
that the Government should be bold enough to say
that its policy is such and that it does not ne-
cessarily means that the :-cost of living will not be
increased.

Where freight rates and package are concerned,
one has to: remember that sometime ago these
things were conductedonthe F.O.B. basis. Now'they


__












Are done onthe C.I.F. basis. Senator Blanchette said
that he would have preferred to see a rise in surtax.
If you want $300,000, $100,000 or $200,000, in the
final analysis the effect will be the same. The only
difference is that surtax will be easier of applica-
tion and it will be spread over all types of goods.

In analysing the package tax you have to take
into account the respective items, and how many of
these are things like steel construction material in
which there will be nothing to pass on the ordi -
nary class of consumer, although you are putting
up the cost of building and so the cost of living goes
up anyhow.

When you come to this idea of the cost of living
people tend to talk only in terms of food; but it has
a wider reflection. So far as the Government is
concerned, it may cost the Government more to ad-
minister this same package tax because all in-
voices do not carry the weight of each package. I
understand that there has been some delay and
worry at the Customs. When an invoice does not
carry the weight of a package there is bound to be
some delay. Are you going to put on the weight in Bar -
bados? These are some of the practical administra-
tive difficulties that will cost the Government more
money.




I do not know what is the Government's stand
about the Customs Department. But it seems to me
to be a positive disgrace that in a country which
collects so much money through the Customs that
that department should be a relative cow shed. The
Customs Department is so neglected that it is not
funny. It is not fair to ask this kind of operation to
to be carried out in such a building. There are no
proper facilities for administration and staff is
lacking. I am shocked to see the Customs Depart-
ment still operating on the same neglected basis.

I do feel. also that the Government should let the
public know what will be the sub-division of this
$300,000 that will come from this form of taxation,
and how it will be utilised so that youwill know
what you are passing on when it is collected.

I support entirely what Senators Blanchette and
Alkins have said that whenever Government intro-
duces something that has the cost factor in it there
is the tendency to say that therI is something perni-
cious in it. There is this attempt to male people be-
lieve that the large numbers of people living in Bar-
bad's have no right to make any contribution to the
progress of their country. I hink that it is time to
let people know that that is a wrong concept.

People will be made to believe that the cost of
living has gone up because of the increase in pack
age tax although we know that the price of some
things has gone up other than because of the Gov-
ernment's fiscal policy. Some have goneupbecause
of freight rates.


If we continue this way, we will never be able
to go to the U. K. and ask for more for our sugar.
We will be asking people at the other end to in-
crease their cost of living to enable us to live. If
we get into this habit prices will never move and
wages will never move. I do not think that anyone in
his right senses will advocate a policy such as that.

The question that the Bill be read a second time
was put and agreed to.

On the motion of Senator the Honourable H. A.
Vaughan, seconded by Senator C. L. Brathwaite, the
Senate went into Committee on the Bill Senator C.
Asquith Phillips in the chair.

Clauses 1 to 3 of the Bill were called and
passed without debate.

The question that the passing of the Bill in Com-
mittee be reported to the Senate was put and agreed
to.
His Honour the President resumed the Chair
and the passing of the Bill in Committee was re-
ported accordingly.

On the motion of Senator the Honourable H. A.
Vaughan, seconded by Senator the Honourable F. G.
Smith, the Bill was read a third time and passed.

BILL TO AMEND THE COMPANIES ACT

The President called the second Order,-- A Bill
to amend the Companies Act, 1910.


SENATOR THE HON. H. A. VAUGHAN: Mr.
President, -- This is one of those measures which
seeks to bring about a reform accordingto the pro-
posals made by the Minister of Finance. As will be
seen, it substitutes for the schedule to the Companies
Act of 1910, another schedule by which the fees pay-
able in respect of the formation and the other inci-
dents of the bringing of a company into being have
been increased.

It is difficult to say off hand what the increase
of revenue from this measure will be, as it is dif-
ficult to envisage the number of companies which
.may be established in one year. The increase in fees
is not exorbitant. In every instance they bear a
reasonable comparison with the fees charged in
various independent countries in the area.

There is one other point that I should mention,
and it was made by the Minister of Finance. This is
a sort of interim measure. Not that I am suggesting
that there will be a change in fees in the near future
but there is under consideration the drafting of an
entirely new Companies Act.

Our Companies Act is very antiquated as any
lawyer who has looked at-tbe backof a brief will tell
you. But we do not see why, pending the provisiu.
of the necessary number of draughtsmen in the Le-
gal Department to cope with the heavy number of


1











statutes which are necessary, it will not be possible.
to amend the schedule to this Act so as to give effect
to what is desired to be accomplished by this Bill.

I move, sir, that the Billbe read a second time.

Senator the Hon. P. M. Greaves seconded the
motion.

SENATOR F. L. WALCOTT: Mr. President, --
I am not opposed to the Bill, but I am taking this op-
portunity of asking a question of the Minister of
State. We have increased these fees being paid for
registration, but one set of people who seem to go
freely are barristers. I am wondering whythey can-
not be embraced in this net.

HIS HONOUR THE PRESIDENT: I do not think
that that is anything to do with the subject matter of
amending the Companies Act.

SENATOR F. L. WALCOTT: It is something to
do with the increasing of fees, Sir. I am only saying
that people like barristers and doctors could be
closed in on and let them make such contributions.
I feel that in 1967 you could ask a doctor to pay a
fee for practising his profession. The same thing is
true for barristers who should not be unwilling to
pay a fee for practising in an independent country.

SENATOR THE HON. H. A. VAUGHAN: I do not
want to say too much. I allowed Senator Walcott to
go a little outside the ambit of this Bill. I was won-
dering whether he had a hot line or whether a little
bird whispers in his ears. I am only asking a ques-
tion, not making a statement; but the inference is
clear.

On the motion of Senator the Honourable H. A.
Vaughan, seconded by Senator the Honourable P. M.
Greaves, the Senate went into Committee on the Bill,
Senator C. Asquith Phillips in the Chair.

Clauses 1 to 3 of the Bill were called and
passed without debate.

The Schedule was called.

Senator the Honourable H. A. Vaughan moved
that the Schedule stand part of the Bill.

Senator C. L. Brathwaite seconded the motion.



The question that the Schedule stand part of the
Bill was put to the Senate and agreed to.


The question that the passingof the Billin Com-
mittee be reported to the Senate was put and agreed
to.

His Honour the President resumed the Chair and
the passing of the Bill in Committee was reported
accordingly.


On the motion of Senator the Honourable H. A.
Vaughan, seconded by Senator the Honourable P. M.
Greaves, the Bill was read a third time and passed.

BILL TO AMEND THE PATENTS ACT, 1903

The President called the third Order -- A Bill
to amend the Patents Act, 1903.

SENATOR THE HON. H.A. VAUGHAN: Mr.
President, -- The remarks which I made in moving
the second reading of the last Bill apply to this. This
is also intended to supplement the budgetary propo-
sals and there is, as in the last Bill a completely
new schedule in which the amounts which vary have
been increased. Again the increases are not exorbi-
tant compared with the fees charged in other inde-
pendent territories in the area.

Here again it is difficult to say what the proba-
ble increase in revenue will be.

I move, Sir, that the Bill be read a second time.

Senator C. L. Brathwaite seconded the motion.

The question was put and agreed to.

The question that the Bill be read a second time
was put to the Senate and agreed to.


On the motion of Senator the Honourable H. A.
Vaughan, seconded by Senator C. L. Brathwaite, the
Senate went into Committee on the Bill, Senator C.
Asquith Phillips in the Chair.

Clauses 1 to 4 of the Billwere called and passed
without debate.

The Schedule was called.

Senator the Honourable H. A. Vaughan moved
that the Schedule stand part of the Bill.

Senator C. L. Brathwaite seconded the motion.

The question that the Schedule stand part of the
Bill was put to the Senate and agreed to.

The question that the passingof the Billin Com-
mittee be reported to the Senate was put and agreed
to.

His Honour the President resumed the Chair
and the passing of the Bill in Committee was re-
-ported accordingly.

On the motion of Senator the Honourable H. A.
Vaughan, seconded by Senator C. L. Brathwaite,the
Bill was read a third time ard passed.

ADJOURNMENT

On the motion of Senator the Honourable H. A.
Vaughan, seconded by Senator C. L. Brathwaite, the
Senate adjourned at 5.15 p.m. sine die.






Statutory Instruments Supplement No. 7
Supplement to Official Gazette No. 10 dated February 3, 1969.



S.I. 1969 No. 14

The Sugar Industry (Rehabilation Price
Stabilization and Labour Welfare)
Act, 1947

THE LABOUR WELFARE FUND (DISPLACED
SUGAR FACTORY WORKERS) (SCOTLAND
AND COLLETON FACTORIES)
REGULATIONS, 1969

The Minister in exercise of the powers conferred
on him by section 20 of the Sugar Industry (Rehabilita-
tion Price Stabilization and Labour Welfare) Act, 1947
hereby makes the following Regulations-
1. These Regulations may be cited as the Labour
Welfare Fund(Displaced Sugar Factory Workers) (Scot-
land and Colleton Factories) Regulations, 1969.
2. There may be paid out of the Labour Welfare
Fund to the account of the Sugar Factory Workers
Severance Payments Fund established under section 6
of the Sugar Factory Workers Severance Payments
Act, 1965 an amount not exceeding $46,698 which shall Act 1965-7.
be applied in the making of severance payments to those
sugar factory workers who were displaced by the clos-
ing of the Scotland and Colleton Factories in the man-
ner set out in the said Act.
Made by the Minister this 29th day of January,1969.

KENMORE N. R. HUSBANDS
Minister responsible for Agriculture.




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Last updated October 10, 2010 - - mvs