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Group Title: Official gazette, Barbados
Title: The official gazette
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Title: The official gazette
Physical Description: v. : ill. ; 33-42 cm.
Language: English
Creator: Barbados
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Place of Publication: BridgetownBarbados Published by authority
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Subject: Law -- Periodicals -- Barbados   ( lcsh )
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upatte.


PUBLISHED BY AUTHORITY


BRIDGETOWN, BARBADOS, 23RD JANUARY, 1969


TABLE OF CONTENTS

Gazette Notices
Application for Liquor Licences at Dists. "A" & "C" 70, 73
Appointments:
Mrs. Daisy Hope, Miss Lucille L. Jordan, Miss
Leyeme Millar, Neville F. Watson, to be Craft
Supervisors, Handicraft Development Centre .... 69
Bank of Nova Scotia Statement of Assets and Liabilities
as at October 31, 1968 .............................. 76, 77
Barbados Regiment: Award of Efficiency Medal....... 69
Industrial Incentives Act, 1963:
Re Industrial type gloves; Toilet accessories;
Wrapping paper plain and printed............... 71
In the Supreme Court of Judicature:-
Goodridge vs. Goodridge; Greaves vs. Corbin.... 75, 74
King vs. Gill et al; Maraj vs. Boyce............... 75, 78
Parris vs. Edwards; Power vs. Bannister.......... 78, 72
Prescod vs. Prescod; Scantlebury vs. Eastmond 78, 73
Waithe & Waithe vs. Frost............................. 74
Land Acquisition Act re Abandonment of acquisition of
land at Sand Street, St. Peter......................... 72
List of Nurses and Midwives.................................. 79-84
Notice of Sitting of Licensing Authority at Dist. "A" 70
Notice re Trustees of Central Church of Christ to
introduce bill into Parliament....................... 72
Patent: "Freeze Concentration of Coffee Extract"..... 73
Probate Advertisements dated 17th January, 1969........ 85, 86
Resignations: Mrs. Monica Y. Alleyne, Clerical Officer;
Coleridge O. Greaves, Clerical Officer; Miss Viola
E. Mahon, Clerical Officer, F. A. Perkins, Agricultural
Assistant; O'Brien Trotman, Clerical Officer...... 70
Withdrawal: P.C. Owen Weekes, Royal Barbados Police
Force.................................. ................ 70

House of Assembly Debates for 30th April, 1968.




i1~39


(3ZZ90


NOTICE NO. 69

GOVERNMENT NOTICES

Barbados Regiment

Award of Efficiency Medal

His Excellency the Governor-General
has been pleased to approve the award of the
Efficiency Medal to Sergeant R.DeC. Baston.

(M.P. 3897)

Appointments

Miss Lucille L. Jordan, to be Craft
Supervisor, Handicraft Development Centre,
with effect from 1st October, 1968.

(M.P. 6568/3)

Neville F. Watson, to be Cra Supervi-
sot-, Handicraft Development Centre, with ef-
fect from 1st October, 1968.

Miss Leyerne Millar, to be Craft Super-
visor, Handicraft Development Centre, with
effect from 1st October, 1968.

Mrs. Daisy Hope, to be Craft Supervi-
sor, Handicraft Development Centre, with ef-
fect from 1st October, 1968.

(M.P. 6568/3)


VOL. CIV


r


NO. 7








OFICA GAZTT Jaur2,16


GOVERNMENT NOTICES Cont'd.


Resignations


F. A. Perkins, Agricultural Assistant,
resigns from the Public Service with effect
from 1st February, 1969.

(M.P. P. 2921)


Coleridge O. Greaves, Clerical Officer,
resigned from the Public Service with effect
from 14th January, 1969.

(M.P. P. 8594)


Mrs. Monica Y. Alleyne, Clerical Offi-
cer, resigns from the Public Service with ef-
fect from 1st February, 1969.

(M.P. P. 8265)



Miss Viola E. Mahon, Clerical Officer,
resigned from the Public Service with effect
from 16th January, 1969.

(M.P. P. 8605)


O'Brien Trotman, Clerical Officer,
General Post Office, to resign from the Pub-
lic Service with effect from 6th February,
1969.

(M. P. P. 5781)


Withdrawals

Gazette Notice No. 2 appearing in issue
No. 2 of 6th January, 1969, is hereby amended
by substituting the following:-

No. 181 Police Constable Owen Weekes,
has been granted permission to withdraw
from the Royal Barbados Police Force with
effect from 1st January, 1969.


(M.P. 3816 Vol. II)


NOTICE NO. 70


Form R


Regulation 9


.Notir'-of .Sitting of Licensirlg Authority

(The Liquor Licence Act 1957 Section 16)

Notice is hereby given that a special sit-
iting of the Licensing Authority for District
"'"A" will be held-4at the Magistrates' Courts

Di-strict. 'A' "on Thursday the 13th February,
1969 GRANTING LICENCES, TRANSFERS
OF LICENCES, AND ORDERS FOR REGIS-
TRATION OF CLUBS under the abovemen-
tioned Act.

Dated at Magistrates' Courts District
"A", 16th January, 1969.

G. A. COLLYMORE
Clerk to the Licensing Authority (Ag.)
N.B. All applications MUST reach the Mag-
istrates' Courts District "A" not later than
twenty-one days (21) before.

NOTICE NO. 71

LIQUOR LICENCE NOTICE
(Act 1957-40)

APPLICANT: GEORGE POZIOS
OCCUPATION: Manager
ADDRESS: Rockley Christ Church.
PREMISES: Wall & wooden building
at Rockley
Christ Church known
as CalypsoBeach Bar.
Dated this 16th day of January 1969.
Signed: G. POZIOS
Applicant.
This Application for a Restaurant Li-
cence will be considered at a Licensing Court
to be held at Magistrates' Courts Dist. "A"
on Thursday the 13th day of February 1969 at
9 o'clock a.m.
GEORGE COLLYMORE
Clerk to Licensing Authority.


January 23, 1969


OFFICIAL GAZETTE








Januay 23, 1969 OFFICIAL GAZETTE1


NOTICE NO. 72

THE INDUSTRIAL INCENTIVES ACT, 1963

(Section 6)

NOTICE

The Honourable Prime Minister and Min-
ister of Finance pursuant to section 6 of the
Industrial Incentives Act, 1963, hereby gives
notice that he is about to be asked to consider
whether for the purposes of the abovemen-
tioned Act, a Company to be registered as
Curacao Laboratories (B'dos) Ltd. should be
declaredas an approved enterprise inrespect
of Toilet Accessories at a factory to be
situated at Fontabelle, St. Michael.

Anyperson interestedin the manufacture
or importation of the products in question who
objects to the proposed Company being de-
clared an approved enterprise for the pur-
poses of the Industrial Incentives Act, 1963,
should forward to the Director (Ag.) Econo-
mic Planning Unit, Office of the Prime Min-
ister and a copy to Manager, Barbados
Development Board to reach him not later
than Friday, 31st January, 1969, a statement
in writing setting forth the grounds of his ob-
jection.

NOTICE NO. 73

THE INDUSTRIAL INCENTIVES ACT, 1963

(Section 6)

NOTICE

The Honourable Prime Minister and Min-
ister of Finance pursuant to section 6 of the
Industrial Incentives Act, 1963, hereby gives
notice thathe is about to be asked to consider
whether for the purposes of the abovemen-
tioned Act, a company to be registered as
Issa Nicholas (B'dos) Ltd. shouldbe declared
as an approved enterprise in respect of
Wrapping Paper plain and printed at a fac-


tory to be situated at Harbour Industrial
Park.

Any person interested in the manufacture
or importation of the products in question who
objects to the proposed Company being de-
clared an approved enterprise for the pur-
poses of the Industrial Incentives Act, 1963,
should forward to the Director (Ag.) Econo-
mic Planning Unit, Office of the Prime Min-
ister and a copy to Manager, Barbados
Development Board to reach him not later
than Saturday, February 1st, 1969, a state-
ment in writing setting forth the grounds of
his objection.


NOTICE NO. 74

THE INDUSTRIAL INCENTIVES ACT, 1963

(Section 6)
NOTICE
The Honourable Prime Minister and Min-
ister of Finance pursuant to section 6 of the
Industrial Incentives Act, 1963, hereby gives
notice thathe is about to be asked to consider
whether for the purposes of the abovemen-
tioned Act, a Company to be registered as
Trident Gloves Ltd. should be declared as an
approved enterprise in respect of Industrial
type gloves at a factory to be situated at
Pelican Park, Bridgetown.

Any person interested in the manufacture
or importation of the products in question who
objects to the proposed Company being de-
clared an approved enterprise for the pur-
poses of the Industrial Incentives Act, 1963,
should forward to the Director (Ag.) Econo-
mic Planning Unit, Office of the Prime Min-
ister and a copy to Manager, Barbados
Development Board to reach him not later
than Saturday, 1st February, 1969, a state-
ment in writing setting forth the grounds of
his objection.


January 23, 1969


OFFICIAL GAZETTE








OFFICIAL GAZETTE January 23, 1969


NOTICE NO. 75

NOTICE

NOTICE is hereby given that it is the
intention of WINSTON JULIAN MASSIAH,
LIONEL ROBINSON, OLIVER WALROND,
GILFORD YEARWOOD, DONALD HAREWOOD,
and OSVELL WORRELL, the Trustees of
Central Church of Christ to cause to be in-
troduced into Parliament a bill to incorporate
the members of the said Church into a body
corporate under the name of Central Church
of Christ and to empower the said Church to
hold real and personal estate and to sell and
disposeof the same and to make alter rescind
and vary all rules orders regulations and by-
laws as may be deemed necessary for the
management of the affairs of thesaid Church,
and to do all acts and deeds for promoting
andfurthering the objects of the said Church.
Dated the 16th day of January 1969.

COTTLE, CATFORD & Co.,
Solicitors for the Trustees of Central
Church of Christ.

NOTICE NO. 76

IN THE SUPREME COURT OF JUDICATURE
High Court

No. 502 of 1968
ORVILLE ARTHUR POWER: Plaintiff

KENNETH DaCOSTA BANNISTER:
Defendant
The undermentioned property will be set
up for sale at the Registration Office on the
14th day of February 1969 at 2 p.m. and if not
then sold it will be set up for sale on each
succeeding Friday at 2 p.m. until sold.

PROPERTY: ALL THAT certain piece or
parcel of land situate at Thorpes Land, in the
parish of Saint James in this Island contain-
ing by admeasurement one acre one rood and
1.66 poles or thereabouts abutting and bound-


ing on lands of Le Vere Cole, on lands of
W. Hall, on lands of S. Murray, on lands of
one Greaves, on lands of Norma Harris, on
lands of Arthur Jordan and on the Public
Road or however else the same may abut and
bound.

UPSET PRICE: $2,000.00
Dated this 15th day of January 1969.


G. A. A. MAYNARD
Registrar of the Supreme Court (Ag.)
NOTICE NO. 77

LAND ACQUISITION ACT, 1949

(Notice under Section 3)

The abandonment of the acquisition of
the parcel of land described in the Schedule
hereto with the wall building thereon having
been decided on by the Cabinet of this Island
with the approval of both Houses of Parlia-
ment, it is hereby declared in pursuance of
Section 9 of the land Acquisition Act, 1949,
as amended by the Land Acquisition (Amend-
ment) Act, 1963 that the acquisition of the
said parcel of land has been abandoned.

Schedule
ALL THAT certain piece or parcel of
land situate at Sand Street in the parish of
Saint Peter in this Island (being part of a
larger area containing by admeasurement
12,130 square feet or thereabouts) containing
by admeasurement 3,670 square feet or there-
abouts abutting and bounding on lands of
J. Kidd, on the sea, on lands of the Crown, on
the Public Road known as Highway 1 or how-
ever else the same may abut and bound, to-
gether with the wall building thereon.

Dated this llth day of January, One
thousand nine hundred and sixty-nine at
GovernmentHouse in the Island of Barbados.

A. WINSTON SCOTT
Governor-General.


OFFICIAL GAZETTE


January 23, 1969








January~~~~ 23 99OFCA AET


NOTICE NO. 78

PUBLIC NOTICE

(Patents Act, 1903-7, Sec. 10)

NOTICE is hereby given that STRUC-
TURERS SCIENTIFIC AND INTERNATION-
AL CORPORATION of 630 Fifth Avenue, New
York City, New York in the United States of
America lodged in this Office an application
and Complete specification for a patent under
the Patent Act 1903 (1903-7), for an invention
for "FREEZE CONCENTRATION OF COF-
FEE EXTRACT."

The said Specification has been accepted
and is open to public inspection at this Office.

G. A. A. MAYNARD
Registrar (Ag.)

NOTICE NO. 79

LIQUOR LICENCE NOTICES

(Act 1957-40)


APPLICANT:
OCCUPATION:
ADDRESS:
PREMISES:


CONRAD COOK
Shop-keeper
Belmont Land, St. John
Board and galvanize shop
situate at Belmont
Land, St. John.


Dated this o1th day of January 1969.
Signed: CONRAD COOK
Applicant.


This Application for a Retail Licence
will be considered at a Licensing Court to be
held at Magistrate's Court Dist "C" on Fri-
day the 7th day of February 1969 at
9 o'clock a.m.

W. C. MARSHALL
Clerk to Licensing Authority.


NOTICE NO. 80

IN THE SUPREME COURT OF JUDICATURE

High Court

No. 505 of 1968

LINCOLN HAMILTON SCANTLEBURY:
Plaintiff

JAMES CHRISTOPHER EASTMOND:
Defendant

The undermentioned property will be set
up for sale at the Registration Office on the
14th day of February 1969 at 2 p.m. and if not
then sold it will be set up for sale on each
succeeding Friday at 2 p.m. until sold.

PROPERTY: FIRSTLY ALL THAT cer-
tain piece or parcel of land situate at Brereton
Village in the parish of Saint Philip in this Is-
land containing by admeasurement twenty
seven and one half perches or thereabouts
abutting and bounding on two sides on lands
now or late of M. Carter on a Road on lands
now or late of W. Prescod and on lands now
or late of W. Clarke or however else the same
may abut and bound and SECONDLY ALL
THAT certain piece or parcel of land situate
at Brereton Village -in the parish of Saint
Philip and Island aforesaid containing by ad-
measurement twenty four perches or there-
abouts abutting and bounding on a Road on
lands now or late of J. C. Eastmond on lands
now or late of M. Carter, deceased, and on
another Road or however else the same may
abut and bound.

UPSET PRICES: $1,000.00 (each)
Dated this 15th day of January 1969.

G. A. A. MAYNARD
Registrar of the Supreme Court (Ag.)


January 23, 1969


OFFICIAL GAZETTE








OFFICIAL GAZETTE January 23, 1969


NOTICE NO. 81
LIQUOR LICENCE NOTICE
(Act 1957-40)


APPLICANT:
OCCUPATION:
ADDRESS:
PREMISES:


DOROTHY BOWEN
Shop-keeper
Parish Land, St. Philip.
A board and galvanise
shop attached to Resi-
dence at Parish Land,
St. Philip.


Dated this 13th day of January 1969.

Signed: D. BOWEN
Applicant.
This Application for a Retail Licence
will be considered at a Licensing Court to be
held at Magistrate's Court Dist. "C" on Fri-
day the 7th day of February 1969 at
9 o'clock a.m.

W. C. MARSHALL
Clerk to Licensing Authority.

NOTICE NO. 82
IN THE SUPREME COURT OF JUDICATURE
High Court
No. 506 of 1968
ANDERSON ALBERT GREAVES: Plaintiff
ENID CORBIN: Defendant
The undermentioned property will be set
up for sale at the Registration Office on the
14th day of February 1969 at 2 p.m. and if not
then sold it will be set up for sale on each
succeeding Friday at 2 p.m. until sold.

PROPERTY: ALL THAT certain piece
or parcel of land (part of "Ashton Hall"
Plantation) situate in the parish of Saint
Peter and Island aforesaid containing by ad-
measurement One Rood and Seven Perches or
thereabouts (inclusive of one-half of that por-
tion of the private road way twelve feet wide
hereinafter mentioned which forms one of the
boundaries of the said parcel of land) Abut-
ting and Bounding on lands of George Bressant


on lands of one Mrs. Harbin, on a private
roadway twelve feet wide and on the Public
Road or however else the same may abut and
bound.

UPSET PRICE: $1,000.00

Dated this 15th day of January 1969.

G. A. A. MAYNARD
Registrar of the Supreme Court (Ag.)

NOTICE NO. 83

IN THE SUPREME COURT OF JUDICATURE

High Court

No. 501 of 1968

MAZALUTHA LESSON WAITHE
and ESMA DERITA WAITHE: Plaintiff

KEITH DOUGLAS FROST: Defendant

The undermentioned property will be set
up for sale at the Registration Office on the
14th day of February 1969 at 2 p.m. and if not
then sold it will be set up for sale on each
succeeding Friday at 2 p.m. until sold.

PROPERTY: ALL THAT certain piece or
parcel of land situate at Christie Village in
the parish of Saint Thomas in this Island con-
taining by admeasurement one acre sixteen
perches or thereabouts of which area two
perches are contained in the road hereinafter
mentioned called Christie Village Road abut-
ting and bounding on lands of one Mary Dowell
on lands of Bucks Plantation on lands of one
Iris Maynard on a Road in common ten feet
wide and on the Public Road called Christie
Village Road or however else the same may
abut and bound.

UPSET PRICE: $3,400.00
Dated this 15th day of January 1969.


G. A. A. MAYNARD
Registrar of the Supreme Court (Ag.)


January 23, 1969


OFFICIAL GAZETTE








January 23, I~69 OFFICIAL GAZETTE


NOTICE NO. 84


IN THE SUPREME COURT OF JUDICATURE

High Court


No. 497 of 1968

GRETA PALMYRA GOODRIDGE: Plaintiff

LOLITA VAHANI GOODRIDGE: Defendant

The undermentioned property will be set
up for sale at the Registration Office on the
14th day of February 1969 at 2 p.m. and if not
then sold it will be set up for sale on each
succeeding Friday at 2 p.m. until sold.

PROPERTY: ALL THAT certain piece
or parcel of land situate at The Whim in the
parish of Saint Peter in this Island of Barba-
dos aforesaid containing by admeasurement
twenty four thousand nine hundred and sixty
two square feet or thereabouts abutting and
bounding on lands of Avinas Selman on lands
of Warleigh Plantation on lands of Leonard
Cumberbatch and on the Public Road or how-
else the same may abut and bound together
with the message or dwellinghouse thereon
and all and singular other buildings and erec-
tions (whether free hold or chattel) on the
said land erected and built standing and being
with the appurtenances.


UPSET PRICEf $3,000.00

Dated this 15th day of January 1969.

G. A. A. MAYNARD
Registrar of the Supreme Court (Ag.)


NOTICE NO. 85


IN THE SUPREME COURT OF JUDICATURE


High Court


No. 496 of 1968

JOHN WINSTON KING: Plaintiff

FREDEREKA ELDICA GILL et al:
Defendants
The undermentioned property will be set
up for sale at the Registration Office on the
14th day of February 1969 at 2 p.m. and if not
then sold it will be set up for sale on each
succeeding Friday at 2 p.m. until sold.

PROPERTY: ALL THAT certain piece or
parcel of land situate off Cleavers Hill in the
parish of Saint Joseph and Island aforesaid
containing by admeasurement 1 acre 1 rood
22 perches be the same more or less butting
and bounding towards the South on lands of
Aubrey Holder towards the East on lands of
Cecilia Bayley, towards the North on lands
now or late of Northern District Council and
of the said Aubrey Holder and towards the
West on lands of M. Holder, a footpath six
feetwide called Reliance Road which leads to
the Public Road and on lands of A. Mayers or
however else the same may abut and bound.


UPSET PRICE: $1,600.00

Dated this 15th day of January 1969.


G. A. A. MAYNARD
Registrar of the Supreme Court (Ag.)


January 23, 1969


OFFICIAL GAZETTE







OFFICIAL GAZETTE


January 23, 1969


The Bank of Nova Scotia

STATEMENT OF ASSETS

AND LIABILITIES
as at October 31




1968


Cash Resources
Cash and due from banks. ... . ..
Cheques and other items in transit, net . .

Securities
Securities issued or guaranteed by Canada, at amortized
value . . . .
Securities issued or guaranteed by provinces, at amor-
tized value .. . ..
Other securities, not exceeding market value . .

Loans
Day, call and short loans to investment dealers and
brokers, secured . . . ...
Other loans, including mortgages, less provision for
losses . .



Bank premises at cost, less amounts written off. .
Securities of and loans to corporations controlled by the,
bank . .. . .
Customers' liability under acceptance, guarantees and
letters of credit, as per contra .. . . .
Other assets..... . . .


$ 715,509,315
141,553,011
857,062,326


$ 484,601,583
118,488,212
603,089,795


499,512,385 433,023,578


38,657,381
163,605,227
701,774,993


32,077,404
127,953,959
593,054,941


401,003,357 204,537,440


3,086,211,289
3,487,214,646,


45,554,272

26,335,917

94,583,161
4,511,722


2,591,394,323
2,795,931,763


42,762,411

17,003,745

84,336,424
2,540,100


$5,217,037,037


$4,138,719,179


AUDITORS' REPORT
TO THE SHAREHOLDERS OF THE BANK OF NOVA SCOTIA
We have examined the statement of assets and liabilities ofThe Sank of Nova Scotia as at October 31, 1968, and the
statements of revenue, expenses and undivided profits, accumulated appropriations for losses and rest account for
the year ended on that late. Our examination included a general review of the accounting procedures and such
tests of accounting records and other supporting evidence as we considered necessary in the circumstances.


ASSETS


1967


I__I I








January 23, 1969


OFFICIAL GAZETTE


LIABILITIES


Deposits
Deposits by Canada . . .
Deposits by provinces. .. .. . .
Deposits by banks . . . .
Personal savings deposits payable after notice, in Canada,
in Canadian currency. ..... . .
Other deposits ........ . ...



Acceptances, guarantees and letters of credit .. .
Other liabilities . . .
Accumulated appropriations for losses .. ... .

Capital Funds
Debentures issued and outstanding (7% October 15,
1987) ... . . . . .


$ 35,098,996
117,081,573
684,370,004

1,626,098,364
2,390,507,876
4,853,156,813


94,583,161
12,929,244
79,760,646




15,000,000


$ 5,051,833
143,058,673
364,305,817

1,402,112,711
1,900,422,262
3,814,951,296


84,336,424
12,014,199
56,746,857



15,000,000


SHAREHOLDERS' EQUITY:
CAPITAL STOCK-AUTHORIZED 25,000,000
SHARES AT $2 PER SHARE
Capital paid up . . .
Rest account . . .
Undivided profits . . .


$ 30,000,000
130,000,000
1,607,173


161,607,173
176,607,173



$5,217,037,037


F. WILLIAM NICKS
President


30,000,000
124,000,000
1,670,403
155,670,403
170,670,403



$4,138,719,179


ARTHUR H. CROCKETT
Chief General Manager


In our opinion the foregoing statements present fairly the financial position of the Bank as at October 31, 1968,
and the revenue, expenses and undivided profits, accumulated appropriations for losses and transactions in the
rest account of the Bank for the year ended on that date.


T. A. M. HUTCHISON, F.C.A.,
of Peat, Marwick, Mitchell & Co.
T. C. KINNEAR, F.C.A.,
of Price Waterhouse & Co.


Toronto, Canada,
November 22, 1968.


Auditors


I I i








OFFICIAL GAZETTE January 23, 1969


NOTICE NO. 86

IN THE SUPREME COURT OF JUDICATURE

High Court

No. 490 of 1969

GEORGE PARRIS: Plaintiff

LILIAN GERTRUDE EDWARDS: Defendant

The undermentioned property will be set
up for sale at the Registration Office on the
14th day of February 1969 at 2 p.m. and if not
then sold it will be set up for sale on each
succeeding Friday at 2 p.m. until sold.

PROPERTY: ALL THAT parcel of land
situate at Saint Matthias Gap in the parish
of Christ Church in this Island contain-
ing by admeasurement five thousand seven
hundred and forty one square feet or there-
abouts abutting and bounding on lands of C. E,
Edwards on lands of The Marine Hotel on
other lands of the said C. E. Edwards and on
the Public Road called Saint Matthias Gap or
however else the same may abut and bound.

UPSET PRICE: $3,500.00

Dated this 15th day of January 1969.

G. A. A. MAYNARD
Registrar of the Supreme Court (Ag.)

NOTICE NO. 87

IN THE SUPREME COURT OF JUDICATURE

High Court

No. 494 of 1968

AUBREY DORESTA PRESCOD: Plaintiff

EDITH PRESCQD: Defendant

The undermentioned property will be set
up for sale at the Registration Office on the
14th day of February 1969 at 2 p.m. and if not
then sold it will be set up for sale on each
succeeding Friday at 2 p.m. until sold.


PROPERTY: ALL THAT certain piece
or parcel of land situate at Thorpes Cottage
in the parish of Saint George and Island
abovesaid, containing by admeasurement two
roods five perches or thereabouts (inclusive
of five perches in the roadway) abutting and
bounding on lands of one Lashley, on lands of
Joseph Wharton, on lands of J. G. Odle and on
the Public Road or however else the same
may abut and bound with the appurtenances.

UPSET PRICE: $2,500.00

Dated this 15th day of January 1969.
G. A. A. MAYNARD
Registrar of the Supreme Court (Ag.)

NOTICE NO. 88

IN THE SUPREME COURT OF JUDICATURE

High Court

No. 487 of 1968


RAMNATH MARAJ:

MARTINA BOYCE:


Plaintiff

Defendant


The undermentioned property will be set
up for sale at the Registration Office on the
14th day of February 1969 at 2 p.m. and if
not then sold it set up for up for sale on each
succeeding Friday at 2 p.m. until sold.

PROPERTY: ALL THAT certainpiece or
parcel of land situate at the parish of Saint
Lucy in this Island containing by admeasure-
ment thirty six thousand and forty two square
feet or thereabouts abutting and bounding on
a private road on lands of Aimy Boyce on other
lands of the said Martina Boyce and on a road
called Well Road or however else the same
may abut and bound.

UPSET PRICE: $6,000.00

Dated this 15th day of January 1969.

G. A. A. MAYNARD
Registrar of the Supreme Court (Ag.)


OFFICIAL GAZETTE


January 23, 1969








januay 23 1969OFFIIAL GZETT


LIST

containing the names of persons appearing on the 1st day of January. 1969, in the BIoll I
and Register kept under the midwives and Murses Rlegistration Act 1932-1.

Footnotes i,6irnlin: t!,e yro/ln, or, .oir. .'l ('',iuln il iss ,r,' the I'ertific t:e
nid ittin., each :. crson oi til e roll or re sister:



(a) A NURSE registered in accordance with section 11 of the Midwives and
Nurses Registration Act as being a nurse registered in the United Kingdom
or a British Dominion or in the State of New York.

(b) A MIDWIFE registered in accordance with section 11 of the Act as being
a person certified or registered in the United Kingdom or a British Dom-
inion or.inthe State of New Yorkto be a midwife or otherwise authorised
to perform the duties of a midwife in those places.

(c) A NURSE registered after examination under the Midwives and Nurses
Registration Act of Barbados and also Mental Nurses, or under a corres-
ponding law of any British possession.

(d) A MIDWIFE registered after examination under the Midwives and Nurses
Registration Act of Barbados or under a corresponding law of any British
possession.

(e) A NURSE registered on a Full Term Certificate of Training issued by the
Barbados General Hospital.

(f) A NURSE registered on a 3-year (part-term) Certificate of Training from
the Barbados General Hospital or on a 4-year Certificate of Training at
some other approved medical institution in Barbados.

(g) A MIDWIFE registered on the Midwifery Certificate of Competence issued
by the St. Michael's Almshouse, Barbados.

(h) A NURSE registered on an existing nurse's application under section 9
(1)(h) of the Act.

(1) A MIDWIFE registered on an existing midwife's application under section
9(1)(h) of the Act.


January ,23, .1969


OFFICIAL GAZETTE








OFFICL GII


LIST OF' NI uSES kNI1 \llIID~IN ES


B (Cont'd.)


ALLDER, Leroy T. (a) (c)
ALLEYNE, Alwyn L. (a) (d)
ALLEYNE, Elsie F. (e)(g)
ALLEYNE, Ervine E. (g)
ALLEYNE, Marion V. (d)
ARTHUR, May E. (c)
ARCHER, Bentley C. (c)
ARCHER, Norma (c)
ARMSTRONG, Allison C. (c)(d)
ARMSTRONG, Sheila D. (c)(d)
ASGILL, Maria A. (c)(d)
ASHBY, Grace I (a)
ASHBY, Esther M. (c)
AUSTIN, Asenath (d)
AUSTIN, Violet E. (d)




B


BANCROFT, Veronica D. (c)
BAPTISTE, Mabel J (g)
BASCOMBE, Jean M. (c)
BARRETT, Marjorie (c) (d)
BARRETT, Mildred (c)
BARROW, Doreen Y (c)
BARROW, Gwenyth E. (f)(g)
BARNES, Esterline L. (b)
BAILEY, Coral D. (c)
BAYLEY, Grace A. (a)(b)(c)
BECKLES, Eudene F. (f)(g)
BECKLES, Miriam E. (f)
BECKLES, Nellie G. (d)
BELGRAVE, Elvina (d)
BELGRAVE, Miriam L. (e)
BENNETT, Colton V. (b)(c)
BENTLEY, Idalia P. (c)
BEST, Constance C. (g)
BEST, Muriel E. (d)(c)
BEST, Violet (c) (d)
BEST, Geraldine (c)
BLACKMAN, Doreen 0. (d)
BLACKMAN, Helena A. (e)(g)
BLACKMAN, John B (c)
BLACKMAN, Marcia U. (c)
BLADES, Ruby (e)(g)
BONNETT, Audrie A. (d)


BOURNE, Patsie (c)
BOVELL, Winston (c)
BOWEN, Enid E. (e)
BOWEN, Marjorie F. (e)(d)
BOYCE, Doreen Y. (a)(d)
BOYCE, Sarah E. (f)(g)
BRADSHAW, Joyce (c)
BRADSHAW, Yvonette M. (a) (b)
BRANCH, Dorill S. (d)
BRATHWAITE, Alma A. (d)
BRATHWAITE, Barbara-A. (c)
BR&THWAITE, Lucille I. (d)
BRATHWAITE, Joyce E. (d)
BREWSTER, Clorene N. (a)
BREWSTER, Joyce S. (c)
BREWSTER, Jean H. (c)
BREWSTER, Mignon L. (e)(g)
BRERETON, Dorothy E. (a)
BROME, Frank E. (c)
BROME, Sheila (a)
BROWNE, Jean M. (c)
BRYAN, Vivian 0. (a)
BURKE, Senthelia G. (e)(g)
BURKE, Sylvia E. (a)
BURNETT, Mildred C. (e)




C


CALLENDER, Euna E. (f)(c)
CALLENDER, Mabel V (g)
CALLENDER, Ometa C. (c)
CAMPBELL, Carmen P. (c)
CAMPBELL, Cynthia V. (c)
CARMICHAEL, Beryl E. (c)
CARTER, Edith (c) (d)
CARTER, Thelma (c)
CHHANGUR, Valda I. (c)
CHEESEMAN, Emerald P. (c)
CHANDLER, Eunice V. (e)(g)
CHASE, Adina (d)
CHASE, Germaine D. (e)
CHASE, Millicent M. (g)
CHASE, Winifred E. (e)(g)
CHARLES-McCLEAN, Sylvia E. (a) (l)
CLARKE, Eunice E. (e)


January 23i 19699


OFFICIAL GAZETTE








a 1969 OFFICIAL GAZETTE


i N1"'1SPS ANI) N1IP)1 [\1VS

F (Coni 01.)


CLARKE, Gloria E. (c)
CLARKE, Otalese I. (g)
CLARKE, Una P (c)(d)
COLLIN, Maureen A. (a)
COLLYMORE, Eurah (g) (h)
CORBIN, Isalene E. (c)(d)
CORBIN, Frederica B. (a)
CORNWELL-KING, Gloria E. (d)
COX, Sylvia A. (a)
CRANE, Lilian (e)(g)
CRITCHLOW, Daisy L. (g)
CRITCHLOW, Jean E. (c)






DANIEL, Daphne (d)
DANIEL, Nola (c)
DANIEL, Doreen Y. (d)
DANIEL, Ruby (e)
DAISLEY, Barbara C. (c) (b)
DASH, Estelle E. (g)
DAVIS, Evelyne V. (e)(d)
DAY, Gertrude E. (d)(e)
DOUGLAS, Ermyntrude (d)
DOUGLAS, Oriston S. (e)(g)




E


FRANCIS, Phyllis D. (d)
FRANKLYN, Pearl F. (c) (d)



G


GAY, Marion E (d)(c)
GIBBONS, Florencia E. (c)
GIBSON, Barbara S. (a)
GIBSON, Elaine I. (d)(e)
GIBSON, Pauline L. (c) (d)
GIBSON, Eunice (g)
GITTENS, Eloise G. (h)(g)
GITTENS, Florence E. (a)(g)
GODDARD, Gloria (c)
GOMES, Lecent E. (e)(g)
GORING, Mavis (e)(d)
GRANT, Monica (d)
GRANT, Enid (c)
GREAVES, Ursilla (d)
GREEN, Eudene C. (c)
GREEN, Phyllis A. (c) (b)
GREENIDGE, Lilian (c)
GRIFFITH, Caroline A. (a)
GRIFFITH, Dorcas H. (c)
GRIFFITH, Grenville (c)
GRIFFITH, Marjorie C. (c)(d)
GRIFFITH,Velda M. (c)
GRIFFITH, Noland (c)
GRIFFITH, Ursula L. (g)
GUMBS, Dorothy A. (d)


EASTMOND, Ena E. (f)(g)
EDWARDS, Launtelle (e)
ESTWICK, Phyllis R. (c)
ELCOCK, Mabel C. (a)


F


FORDE, George C. (e)
FORDE, Altha I. (d)
FORDE, Emily C. (e)
FORDE, Maude (e)(d)
FRANCIS, Marjorie E. (c)
FRANCIS, Minerva C. (d)


HAMBLIN, Thelma L. (e)
HARLOW, Clarice G. (d)
HARPER, Thelma (c) (d)
HARPER, Lestine V. (c)
HARRIS, Cyrillene O. (c)
HARRIS, Eulene E. (b)
HARRIS, Joyce P. (c)
HARRIS, Limel G. (e)
HARRIS, Catherine A. (d)
HALL, Carmen (g)
HAYNES, Gilbert E. (c)
HAYNES, Gwendolyn I. (a) (b)


C (Cont'd)


OFFICIAL GAZETTE


January 23, 1969








O G Jur 3, 6


LIST'0'N s" \ OFA ID) %10 E'S


H (Cont'd.)


HAYNES, Sybil G. (a)
HAYNES, Violet R. (g)
HEADLEY, Violet C. (e)(g)
HEADLEY, Hazel N. (c)
HINDS, James F. (c)
HINDS, Perleita J. (c)
HINDS, Janette L. (g)
HOLDER, Sybil I. (d)
HOLDER, Grace (c) (d)
HOLLINGSWORTH, Ermyntrude
HOPE, Maxcine (c)
HOPE, Edwardine (c)
HOPE, Gwenavive B. (e)(g)
HOPE, Winifred E. (d)
HORTON, Holetia O. (c)(d)
HOWARD, Claudine (c)
HOWELL, Gwendoline B. (c)
HOWELL, Lurleen L. (c)
HOWELL, Muriel G. (f)(g)
HUQUE, Ilene G. (d)
HUSBANDS, Elsie A. (c)
HUSBANDS, Olive (e)
HUTCHINSON, Joan D. (e)
HUTSON, Juliette P. (e)
HUTSON, Marita L. (c)
HUTSON, Monica (d)






INNISS, Gwenie (a) (b)






JACKMAN, Leonora (c)(d)
JACKMAN, Stephanie E. (d)
JOHNSON, Joyce M. (d)
JONES, Ivy (g)
JONES, Joyceline E. (e)
JONES, Meta E. (a)(b)
JONES, Viola O. (f) (g)
JORDAN, Lucille (d)
JORDAN, Margaret L. (b)
JORDAN, William A. (c)
JORDAN, Cora G. (a)
JORDAN, Hermena A. (c)


KNIGHT, Clyde E. (c)
KNIGHT, Muriel F. (c)
KNIGHT-PETERS, Catherine C. (a) (b)



L


LaFORTE, Muriel C. (c)
LASHLEY, Gwendolyn (e)
LASCELLES, Glyn M. (d)(e)
LAVINE, Cecile R. (e)
LAYNE, Uri L. (a)
LEWIS, Rosamund C. (a) (b)
LEWIS, Phyllis N. (c)
LOVELLE, Margaret A. (h) (g)
LOWE, Ivy (g)
LOWE, Wilfred G. (c)
LOWE, Emsie E. (c) (d)



M


MARTINDALE, Ada L. (c)
MAITLAND, Everel V. (a)
MALONEY, Phylis R. (c)
MANNING, Florence I. (e)
MANNING, Gertrude A. (c)
MARSHALL, Clymene A. (c)(d)
MARSHALL, Gwendolyn (c)
MARSHALL, Doreen E. (d)
MASCOLL, Emma (1)
MAYCOCK, Gladys A. (g)
MAYERS, Marjorie D. (e)
MAYNARD, Lottie D. (g)
McCARTHY, Nellie M. (a)
McCLEAN, Joyce T. (c)
McCLEAN, Sylvia M. (d)
McCONNEY, Sylvia (g)
McGEARY, Violet (h)
McCASKIE, Daphne R. (c) (d)
McCOLLIN, Ruth C. (c)
MILLER, Mabel A. (e)(g)
MILLINGTON, Helena L. (c)
MOE, Edith J. (c)(g)
MOTTLEY, Muriel (g)
MOTTLEY, Vivian E. (f)
MOORE, Enid (c) (d)


January 23, 1969


OFFICIAL GAZETTE








Jaury2,199OFIILGAET


LIST OF NURSES AND MIDWIVES


R (Cont'd.)


NEBLETT, Eulalene G. (g)
NEBLETT, Sybil M. (c)(d)
NIGHTINGALE, Joyce P. (c)
NILES, Edna E. (d)(c)
NILES, Ina E. (g)
NORRIS, Shirley Y.
NORVILLE, Clarence (c)
NORVILLE, Eugene E. (d)
NURSE, Shirley P. (a)


PARRIS, Gloria C. (d)
PAYNE, Sereta E. (d)(c)
PELEW, Esmie L. (d)
PHILLIPS, Janetha E. (g)
PILGRIM, Amara D. (c)
PILGRIM, Grace B. (a)
PINDER, Ruthine A. (c)(d)
PILE, Dorothy E. (b)




Q


QUINTYNE, Thelma F. (c)



R


RAESIDE, Merle (a)
RAMSAY, Dorothy (c)(d)
RAWLINS, Beatrice (f)(g)
READE, Marjorie E. (c)(d)
REECE, Patricia (d)
REID, Barbara (c)(d)
REID, Grace (e)
REID, Venistene E. (c)


RICHARDS, Stelistine (a) (b)
ROACH, Jean (c)(d)
ROBINSON, Daisy V. (c)
ROWE, Althea V. (d)
ROLSTON, Ricardo (c)
ROBERTS, Clarence 0. (c)
RUDDER, Clymene A. (d)


SANDS, Clarice (c)
SANDIFORD, Joyce (d)
SARGEANT, Pauline A. (c)
SARGEANT, Thyra H. (c)(g)
SCANTLEBURY, Elaine G. (d) (a)
SCHEURER, Sister Mary M. (a)
SEALE, Eunice A. (d)
SEALY, Leyland R. (e)
SEALY, Glenda E. (c)
SEALY, Muriel (a)
SEALY, Vivian E. (e)
SIMMONS, Sybil L. (c)
SINKLER, Althea E. (c)
SMALL, Elsie D. (g)
SMALL, Evelyn I. (f)
SMALL, Olga P. (c)
SPERLEIN, Sister M.E. (d)(a)
SPRINGER, Jean G. (a)(g)
SPRINGER, Lilian (d)
SPRINGER, Talcie E. (e)(d)
SQUIRES, Mignonne I. (c)(d)
SQUIRES, Muriel O. (g)
STANFORD, Noel R. (c)
ST. HILL, Aurora (g)
ST. HILL, Carmen D. (c)

STEEDE, Clara L. (g)
STEWART, Eleanor V. (c)


January 23, 1969


OFFICIAL GAZETTE








O CA A Eaa21


LIST OF NURSES AND MIDWIVES


W (Cont'd.)


TAITT, Cyril S. (c)
TAITT, Claudine S. (g)
TAITT, Ura M. (a)(b)
TAITT, MaryJ. (c)(g).
TAYLOR, Mildred E. (d)
THOMPSON, Helena M. (c)
THOMPSON, Marquerita E. (c)
THOMPSON, Vestal (c)
THOMPSON, Norma M. (a) (b)
THORNE, Inez L. (g)
THORNHILL, Ermal. (f)(g)
TROTMAN, Edna B, (f)(g)
TROTMAN, Olive (c)
TUDOR, Waple M. (e)
TUDOR, Maureen V. (c)
TOPPIN, Octavia V. (c)




w

WALCOTT, Sylvia (c)
WALDRON, Idalette A. (a)
WALTERS, Aurora E. (f)(g)
WALTERS, Ena K. (a) (b)
WALTERS, Beresdeen C. (d)
WALTON, Clytie E. (g)
WARD, Beryl G. (e)(d)


WEEKES, Eileen E. (c)(b)
WEEKES, Cicely I. (c)
WEEKES, Rhoda F. (g)
WELCH, Waple L. (c)(g)
WELLS, Vida (c)
WHITEHEAD, Eugenia (i)
WICKHAM, Patricia P. (a)(d)
WILES, Wendy J. (a)
WILKINSON, Beulah E. (a)
WILLIAMS,. Barbara A. (e)(d)
WILLIAMS, Winifred (e)
WILLIAMS, Selbert (a)
WILSON, Daisy O. (d)
WILSON, Ruby L. (d)
WITTMAN, Sister M. I. A. (a)
WORRELL, Elvina E. (c) (d)
WOODING, Glee (c)
WOODING, Lucia A. (c)




Y


YARDE, Hyacinth I. (c)
YARDE, Anita M. (a)
YOUNG, Maizie (c) (d)


G. A. A. MAYNARD
Registrar (Ag.)
1st January, 1969.


January 23, 1969


OFFICIAL GAZETTE










PROBATE ADVERTISEMENTS

PUBLIC NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that applications have been made
for the following Grants of Probate and Administration namely :-


PROBATE of the Will dated the 22nd day of February, 1966 of CLIFFORD GLADSTONE
WATSON late of Black Rock in the parish of Saint Michael in this Island who died on
the 28th day of March, 1967, by ERWIN RAEBURN WATSON and VASHTI LASONTA
COLLYMORE the Executors named in the Will of the said deceased.

PROBATE of the Will dated the 2nd day of May, 1967 of ASTOR BANCROFT late of
Hastings in the parish of Christ Church in this Island who died on the 30th day of
July, 1967, by AGNES EDNA BANCROFT, the sole Executrix named in the Will of
the said deceased.

PROBATE of the Will dated the 23rd day of January, 1963, of JAPETH SIMEON
CRAWFORD late of Ellerton in the parish of Saint George in this Island who died on
the 13th day of July, 1965, by LINCOLN LEROY CRAWFORD one of the Executors
named in the Will of the said deceased.
PROBATE of the Will dated the 1st day of March, 1960 of WINIFRED MAUD MACINTYRE
late of Rostrevor Apartments, Saint Lawrence in the parish of Christ Church in this
Island who died on the loth day of October, 1968 by BARCLAYS BANK D.C.O. the
sole Executor named in the Will of the said deceased.

PROBATE of the Will dated the 17th day of April, 1947 and Codicils dated the 19th day of
March, 1954, the 21st day of June, 1958 and the 19th day of December, 1963, re-
spectively of SARAH REBECCA ANN CECIL late of Hastings in the parish of Christ
Church in this Island who died on the 1st day of April, 1968, by THOMAS KENNETH
DAVIS one of the Executors named in the Will of the said deceased.

LETTERS OF ADMINISTRATION to the Estate of ERNEST LIVINGSTONE GILL also known
as LIVINGSTONE GILL late of Grosvenor's Road, Carringtons Village in the parish
of Saint Michael in this Island who died on the 1st day of December, 1964, by
PHILIP ANTHONY GILL only child and heir-at-law of the said deceased.

LETTERS OF ADMINISTRATION to the Estate of DONALD NATHANIEL MARSHALL late
of "Gun Site", Brittons Hill in the parish of Saint Michael in this Island who died
on the 14th day of August, 1968 by GRANVILLE McCLEAR MARSHALL eldest law-
ful brother and heir-at-law of the said deceased.
LETTERS OF ADMINISTRATION to the Estate of CYRIL THEOPHILUS FORDE late of
Arthur Seat in the parish of Saint Thomas in this Island who died on the 26th day of
December, 1967, by WINIFRED IOLA FORDE widow of the said deceased.


OFFICIAL GAZETTE


y raunaJ 23
'
9691










PROBATE ADVERTISEMENTS Caot'd



LETTERS OF ADMINISTRATION to the Estate of FITZ SINCKLER BARROW also known
as FITZGERALD BARROW late of Saint Matthias in the parish of Christ Church in
this Island who died on the 22nd day of August, 1968 by MADELINE BARROW, widow of
the said deceased.

UNLESS CAVEAT is lodged within fourteen day from the date of this Advertisement
with the Registrar of the Supreme Court through whom the abovenamed applications have
been made Probate and Administration will be granted accordingly.

Dated this 17th day of January, 1969.

G. A. A. MAYNARD
Registrar (Ag.)


Government Printing Office.


OFFICIAL GAZETTE


January-23, 1969











THE


House of Assembly Debates




(OFFICIAL REPORT)


SECOND SESSION OF 1966 71


HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY
Tuesday 30th April, 1968.
Pursuant to the adjournment, the House of As-
sembly met at 2.40 p.m. o'clock today.

PRESENT


His Honour J. E. T. BRANCKER, Q.C., F,Z.S., (Speaker);
Mr. L. E. SMITH, J.P.; Mr. K. N. R. HUSBANDS; Hon. C. E.
TALMA, (Minister of Health and Community Development);
Hon. J. C. TUDOR, M.A., (Leader of the House); Mr. J. W.
CORBIN; Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON, (Minister of Trade, Tourism,
Co-operatives and Fisheries); Mr. R. St.C. WEEKES, J.P.;
Mr. W. R, LOWE; Hon. N. W. BOXILL, (Minister of Communi-
cations and Works); Mr. J. B. YEARWOOD, (Chairman of Com-
mittees); Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS, (Minister of Agriculture,
Labour and National Insurance); Sir G. H. ADAMS, C.M.G.,
Q.C., B.A., D.C.L. (Hon.), (Leader of the Opposition); Mr.
W. C. B. HINDS; His Honour G, E, SERGEANT, (Deputy
Speaker); Mr. C, A, E. HOPPIN, J.P,; Mr. L. S. CRAIG; Mr.
H. B. St. JOHN, LL.B.



Prayers were read.




GIFT OF A SPEAKER'S CHAIR

Mr. SPEAKER: Before this meeting is further
proceeded with, I have the honour to inform Honour-
able Members that the present Chair on which I now
sit was duly presented to this Chamber by His Ex-
cellency Munt Lal, the High Commissioner for India,
at a function in this Chamber on Wednesday of last
week. On behalf of Honourable Members, I accepted
the gracious gift of this magnificent piece of furni-
ture, and I have received from His Excellency the
High Commissioner a letter dated the 26th of this
month wherein it is written:

"My dear Mr. Speaker,
I am taking this earliest opportunity to thank
you sincerely for the courtesies extended to me
during my short stay in Bridgetown, The pre-


sentation function was most impressive, It was
indeed a great privilege for me to represent my
Government at the happy occasion.

The gracious remarks made by you have been
conveyed to the Government of India.

With regards,

Yours sincerely,

(Sgd.) Muni Lal."

I may mention that at the function in question last
week there was, although small, a highly representa-
tive gathering of members in this Chamber in which
the Hon. and Learned Prime Minister and the hon.
senior member for St. Joseph took full part.

Hon. J.C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, the remarks just
made by Your Honour would, I think, give the House
an opportunity to express its deep appreciation of this
splendid gift from the Government and people of India.
I have consulted with the Hon. Leader of the Opposition,
and he agrees with me that it wouldbe fitting for the
House to express its appreciation in a formal Resolu-
tion which, with Your Honour's permission, I should
now like to move:

"BE IT RESOLVED that this House record its un-
qualified appreciation of the gift of a Speaker's Chair
from the people of India to the people of Barbados, on
the occasion of the Independence of Barbados.

AND BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the appre-
ciation of this Honourable House, together with the
warmest greetings of the people of Barbados, be con-
veyed to the Government and people of India,"
Mr. Speaker, it was quite some time that the offer
of this resplendent Chair was made to this House on
behalf Qt the Government and people of India, and we
looked forward to it with great eagerness. Some of us
who saw it in its former state, Your Honour too, did
not imagine that it would prove to be the magnificent
and very attractive gift which it now is. It symbolises
the joint appreciation of the people of Barbados and of
India for parliamentary democracy andtheir attach-
ment to parliamentary institutions, and, not least of
all, the deep and abiding friendship which exists be-
tween the two peoples.


~






1591


Long before either Barbados or India had attained
Independence, there had been a very historic connec -
tion forged between the people of India and the people
of the West Indies generally. So much so, that the peo -
ple of Indian descent have long found a home in several
of these territories to the mutual advantage of them-
selves and their fellow West Indians. It is fitting,
therefore that this House's appreciation of this truly
magnificent gift should be formally conveyed to the
Government and people of India with the House's deep
appreciation being speedily known.


I am sure hon. members on both sides of the
House will join me in supporting this Resolution, be-
cause although Your Honour, as we know, has already
quite amply demonstrated our gratitude, the House
would, on this first occasion since the gift has been
received, certainly wish, on its own behalf, to make
its full appreciation known.

Mr. Speaker, you have put the smaller Chair be-
hind you, but it is a Chair which has an equally
honoured association with the institution of Parlia-
ment in this Island. That Chair, which is now no long-
er in use by Your Honour, served this Assembly from
1874. If Your Honour could have been prevailed upon
to keep it and use it just for another six years, it
would have seen its century as a Speaker's Chair.

I hope the hon. members opposite will agree that
that Chair be handed over to a Museum, with the
House's approval of course, on the strict understand -
ing that it is to be preserved as a historic entity and
is not to be sold, conveyed, devised I think these are
lawyers' terms or otherwise disposed of, and that
a fitting inscription could, perhaps, be attached to the
back of it indicating the number of Speakers of this
Honourable House who have used it, and the respec-
tive dates of their tenures of office. I throw this out
as a suggestion to the other side, which, I hope, will
be taken up and acted upon. I, therefore, have great
pleasure in moving this Resolution.

Sir Grantley ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, I begin with
what the Hon. Leader of the House last said. I have
not interviewed hon. members on this side, but I am
sure their attitude will be the same as mine, not be-
cause they have to follow their Leader, but because
their attitude to the gift and to the old Chair would be
that of any sane, reasonable person.

I endorse entirely what the hon. member has said
as regards the Chair. I think that it should be pre-
served for eternity. Just as we know that we can go
in Great Britian, and we can see relics, either in the
House of Commons itself, or in the British Museum,
or any other place where old relics of the Institution
of Parliament are kept, Barbadians should be able to
go and say: "This is the Chair in which the great
Speakers of the past sat."


As far as this very gift is concerned, I regret
yery much what I am going to say. I hope that mem-
bers here present will not take it as a direct attack
on them. I was amazed when I read that only five


members of the House attended the function. There
are times when we have to admit making previous mis -
takes, and not male the admission for the sake of
show.
2.50 p.m.

I regret that I was not able to come. I was in bed
on the doctor's orders, just influenza and overwork.
That may be true of some other hon. members, but
we must say that it read badly to read that on such an
historic occasion, and on the occasion of such a muni-
ficent gift, His Excellency the Indian Ambassador was
not greeted with a great number of Parliamentarians
and other people. The Commonwealth of India, or the
Dominion of India, gave what the Press so often likes
to call the defunct West Indies Federation, the gift of
a Speaker's Chair too. I thought it was magnificent;
but frankly, it seems to me, a layman, that more art
and more work has been put into this Chair than in
the Chair that they gave to'the West Indies Federation.
A magnificent Chair that was, different in colour, a
magnificent Chair well worthy of a Speaker's Chair;
but it seems to me,andreadingfrom the time it took
to make this Chair, that this is even a greater gift.

Now I say this just because it is true that I not
only have a great respect for India as a Republic, as
a country which has set an example to the rest of the
world as to how partly it is true after violence, but
largely because they were influenced by the philosophy
of non -violence of Mahatma Gandhi India set the pat-
tern to the rest of the British Colonial Empire to fight
for independence and the chance of running their own
affairs. I say what I am going to say now, not as some -
times Colonial people are apt to say: "I am just as
good as you." Sometimes you get an absolutely illi-
terate, uncultured, stupid man, just gettingiup and hit-
ting his breast and saying: "Iam just as, good as Mr.
So-and-So." We, who have succeed in gaining inde-
pendence in the Colonial Empire, do not have to say:
"I want to run my own show because I am just as good
as any Englishman." We do not say that we prove it,
and India has set that example. Some of the greatest
brains this world ever had and have today, we all
know especially among philosophers -are Indians,
whether Hindu or Muslim, and we therefore have to
respect and almost, you may say, revere India's ac-
complishments of the past and India's accomplish-
ments of the present. I have the greatest respect for
India as India; but also I wish to put on record that as
to my acquaintance with His Excellency the Ambassa-
dor, Mr. Muni Lal, though not great, every time I have
met him I have always felt what a great man he is,
and I have always very much been struck by his nor-
mal action to claim for India the place which she de-
serves to have. I think that it is a very great thing
indeed that we, in the West Indies, have Mr. Muni
Lal as our Ambassador, and I ask people to believe
that when he speaks of the affection which India has
for the West Indies, that is not an empty statement.
It comes from his heart. I have the utmost pleasure
in seconding the motion for the passingof this Reso-
lution and I endorse especially every word, not only
as to our appreciation for the gift, but as it is further
added in the Resolution, that the appreciation of this
Honourable House together with the warmest greetings




I I


1592


of the people of Barbados be conveyed to the Govern-
ment and the people of India.

We have not had the historic experience of
British Guiana, now Guyana, and of Trinidad with re -
gard to the mixture of Indians in our midst and per-
haps because of that, we have been spared any friction
between our peoples; but whether that is the cause of
it, or because we appreciate them and they appreciate
us, it is an excellent thing to know that our living to -
gether with Indians in our midst is a happy thing, and
in the future we will continue to prove the harmonious
relationship that both sides want. Again I say, Mr.
Speaker, that I am very happy indeed to second the
motion for the passing of this Resolution.

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, am I in order to reply
to both speakers?

Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. member has his right to
speak in this Chamber.


Mr. SMITH: Sir, it is regrettable that after view-
ing such a lovely piece of workmanship in the form of
a Chair, hon. members of this House did not see fit
to show the honourable gentleman, Mr. Muni Lal, their
appreciation. Sir, I was ashamed, andIwouldgo fur-
ther and say that I was shocked, to see such a poor at-
tendance last Wednesday afternoon. The people and
the Government of India took it upon themselves to
show their appreciation of the people of Barbados in
achieving Independence, but the people of Barbados,
the representatives, did not see fit to showtheir ap-
preciation. Sir, I was thinking that, after looking at
that Chair and to see howvouhave adorned it, it was
a happy day for your mistress to take you at the time
when she did; otherwise there was a possibility that
she might have lost you, after one of the good looking
ones might be coming into this Chamber and viewing
the Chair and you. We mighthavelostyou at one sit-
ting or other by one trying to steal you away. But the
only thing they may not succeed in doing is in taking
you with the Chair, because it is too heavy. Sir, I sin-
cerely hope, I do not want to say what I have said al-
ready, that hon. members will appreciate and respect
the Chair; and I sincerely hope that the Chair will rule
as magnanimously as the Chair of itself; that is to
say, you should not give any member any latitude at
all whatsoever. You should rule as one sitting in a
Chair that has been sent to us from many miles away,
as far as from India.
3.00 p.m.

Sir, I have one regret. I am still regretting that
they did not see fit to help us with a Chair for the
Chairman of Committees. I am saying that because
I am expecting that everything that was not what it
should be has left this Chamber with the old Speaker's
Chair; but the Chairman of Committees' Chair is
still here for us to tolerate.

Sir, I am going to take it on myself to ask the
public and hon. members to give the Chairman of
Committees a new Chair so that we will be able to
receive what I will call in my language proper
rulings.


The question that the Resolution do now pass was put
and resolved in the affirmative without division,

MR. SPEAKER: I will note that there was no
dissentient voice whatsoever on this occasion. I will
ask Mr. Deputy Clerk in the absence of Mr. Clerk
to take the appropriate steps immediately so that
the subject matter of this Resolution may be duly
conveyed.

HON. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, before the
business of the House proceeds, there is a practi-
cal issue which has just arisen. There are a tre-
mendous number of notices to be given on both sides
of the House which will take us up to beyond 3.15 p.m.
That will of course blot out Question Time. I am
wondering if the other side would agree to my
moving the suspension of the rules in order that
notices can be given and in order that the full Ques-
tion Time be done.
Sir Grantley ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, the mere
fact that we are here at this time means that we are
confined to Private Members' Business. entirely
agree with the Leader of the House in order that to
meet the particular circumstances questions can be
tabled, answers given, Private Members' Business
done and any Government Business that is to be
done. I do not myself see any difficulty.
It is not often that I praise the Leader of the
House but I feel that he will be reasonable in
anything that appears to affect the rights of members.
I feel quite convinced that he will act like this.

HON. J. C, TUDOR: I think that the hon. member
has always had the knowledge that I have acted in that
way. I now beg to move the suspension of Standing
Orders Nos. 5,14,16,18, 40 and 45 for the remainder
of this day's sitting.

HON. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.

The question was put and resolved in the affirmative
without division.
PAPERS LAID
HON. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, onbehalfof
the Hon. Prime Minister, Minister of Finance and
External Affairs, I am commanded to lay the fol-
lowing: -

Statement showing Net Customs and Excise
Receipts for twelve months ended 31st March,
1968.

An Account of the transactions in Rum in the
several districts of the Island for the quarter
ended 31st March, 1968.

The Abstract of Statistics of Barbados for the
year 1965.

The Customs Duties (Wet Water Concentrate for
Use in the Combating of Sugar Cane Fires)
Order, 1968.

The Caribbean Free Trade Association (Adap-
tation) Order, 1968.







1593


Supplementary Agreement under Article 31 (3)
of the Agreement for the establishment of the
Caribbean Free Trade Association.

The Civil Establishment (Teachers) (Amend-
ment) Order, 1968.

HON. A.DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, I am
commanded to lay the following: -

The Twenty-ninth Annual Report and Statement
of Account of the Agricultural Credit Bankforthe
year 1st June, 1965, to 31st May, 1966.

Financial Statements of the Barbados Agricul-
tural Development Corporation for the year ended
30th June, 1966.

HON. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, I am com-
manded to lay the Motor Vehicles and Road Traffic
(Amendment) Regulations, 1968.

HON. J. C. TUDOR: On behalf of the Hon.
Prime Minister, and Minister of Finance Ibeg to give
notice of a Resolution that the sum of EIGHTY-
FOUR THOUSAND TWO HUNDRED AND TWENTY
- NINE DOLLARS be granted from the Consolidated
Fund and placed at the disposal of the Government
to supplement the Estimates, 1968-69 Part 1 -
Current as shown in the Supplementary Estimates,
1968-69 No.1 which forms the Schedule to this Re-
solution.

In respect to this Resolution, Mr. Speaker,
about which intimation has been given to Your Honour
and to other hon. members, it is my intention to
ask the Leave of the House to proceed with this
Resolution later in the day's sitting in all its stages.
Therefore I give notice of my intention to move
the House into Committee of Supply later to deal
with this Resolution after leave has been given.

I also beg to give notice that Oral Replies to
Parliamentary Question No. 49 standing in the name
of the hon. junior member for St. Joseph, No. 91
standing in the name of the hon. senior member for
St. Thomas, No. 138 standing in the name of the
hon. junior member for St. James are now ready.


HON. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, I beg to give
notice of a Resolution to approve The Motor Vehic -
les and Road Traffic (Amendment) Regulations, 1968.


Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker, I beg
to give notice that the Replies to Parliamentary
Questions Nos. 110,141 and 146 asked by the hon.
senior member for St. Thomas, are now ready.


'Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Speaker, I beg to give
notice that the Oral Reply to Parliamentary Question
No. 86, asked by the hon. junior member for St.
Peter, is ready.


Also Oral Reply to Parliamentary Question No.
133 asked by the hon. senior member for St. James,
is ready.

Also Oral Reply to Parliamentary Question
No. 134, asked by the hon senior member for St.
James, is ready.

The Oral Reply to Parliamentary Question No.
137 asked by the hon. junior member for St. George
is ready.

The Oral Reply to Parliamentary Question No.
153 asked by the hon. senior member for St. Peter
is ready.

The Oral Reply to Parliamentary Question No.
155 asked by the hon. senior member for St. James,
is ready.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, I beg
to give notice that the Reply to Parliamentary
Question No. 119 asked by the hon. junior member
for St. James, is ready.

QUESTIONS

Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. and Learned member
for St. Thomas: his query re Traffic Signal
detector pads.

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, to
enquire of the Minister of Communications and
Works:

1. Is it a fact that most, if not all, of the traf-
fic signal detector pads at junctions controlled by
traffic lights have been covered by the Ministry
and that detectors are no longer serviceable, with
the consequence that the lights are now operating
on a fixed time basis and cannot automatically
adjust themselves to the volume of traffic approach-
ing road junctions?

2. What liaison, if any, exists between the
departments of Government responsible for. main-
tenance of traffic lights and the departments respon-
sible for controlling road traffic?

3. If the answer to paragraph 1 is "yes", will
the Minister state on whose advice was the decision
to cover the detector pads taken?

4. Will the Minister consider returning control
of the entire traffic lights system to the Commission-
er of Police who is still responsible for general
traffic control?

Mr. SPEAKER: The same hon. member : his
query re Fire Insurance for the Hilton Hotel.

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: Mr. Speaker,
To enquire of the Prime Minister:-
1. With what company has. the Hilton Hotel
been insured against fire since its completion?







1594


2. If the insurance or insurances were played
through a local agency in Barbados, will the Prime
Minister state the name of the agency?

3. Is the Chairman or any other member of
the Development Board connected with the agency,
if any, referred to in paragraph 2 above?

4. What is the Government's policy with regard
to conflicts of interest which may arise between mem-
bers of Statutory Corporations which do business with
or related to the Corporation or to Government pro -
perty owned or controlled by the Corporation?

Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. member: his query
re Bathroom and plumbing fixtures at Hilton Hotel.

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: Mr. Speaker,
1. Will the Prime Minister state who supplied
the bathroom and plumbing fixtures and electrical
fittings materials used in the construction of the
Hilton Hotel?



2. Were these or any other materials used
in the construction of the Hilton Hotel imported
into Barbados via the local agency of the Standard
Agency (Barbados) Company?

Mr. SPEAKER: The same hon, member: his
query re Journeys made via British West Indian
Airways.
To enquire of the Prime Minister:

1. How many journeys have been made by
Ministers of Government and Civil Servants travel-
ling at Government expense on British West Indian
Airways from January 1st, 1968 to date?

2. Were these journeys booked and paid for
through a Travel Agency and, if so which?

3. Will the Government make an investigation
as to whether the Agency or Agencies, if any, referred
to in paragraph 2 above paid British West Indian
Airways the legal fares as set out in their Licensing
for the travelling concerned, orwhetherthe highest
and allegedly unlawful fare charged by British West
Indian Airways since the devaluation of the pound
sterling was in fact paid by the Agency or Agencies?

Mr. SPEAKER: The same hon. member : his
query re Physical Development Plan for Barbados.
Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: Mr. Speaker.
To enquire of the appropriate Minister:-

1. Is It a fact that a Physical Development
Plan for Barbados prepared under the direction
of the Town and Country Planning Office has been
in existence for some time?

2. When does the Government intend to pub-
lish the Plan if in existence?


CONGRATULATIONS TO SIR GRANTLEY ADAMS
ON HIS SEVENTIETH BIRTHDAY

Mr. SPEAKER: It has been drawn to my attention
that since the last meeting of this House the hon. and
Learned Leader of the Opposition has attained his
seventieth birthday.

In wishing the hon. junior member for St. Joseph
(as I now do) happy returns of this occasion, I would
venture to remind him of certain memorable words of
the late Mrs. Julia Ward Howe (the American woman
who was the leader of the Women's Suffrage Move-
ment in her country; who was the first woman to be
elected to the American Academy of Arts and
Letters" and who was authoress of the "Battle Hymn
of the Republic")

Mrs. Howe wrote -

To be seventy years young is sometimes far
more cheerful and hopeful than to be forty years
old."

This lady, hon. members will recall, died in the
year 1910 at the age of 91.

Sir Grantley ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, I am very
grateful to you, Sir, for reminding the House of the
fact that I am beginning to get on in years. I do hope
that I shall see many happy returns of my birth-
day, although it may not be so happy for some people
whom I can think of excluding, for the moment, the
members of the Government.

I do feel that as long as a man or a woman feels
that, physically, he or she has the energy to continue
in public life, it is his or her duty, in spite of the
sneers of others. Some people absolutely forget the
number of old men, in politics and out of politics, who
have continued to contribute in whatever way they
could to what they felt to be the good of the community.
3.20 p.m.

Many and many an old person, even a surgeon,
let alone a doctor, after seventy years, even after
eighty years, ha. continueA. to give the benefit of his
experience to his lest fortunate people. We need
hardly remind the world some people do not want
to be reminded of President De Gaulle who is still
keeping the image of France before the rest of the
wcrld in spite of his age. We needhardly remember
in British politics, Gladstone, old Asquith, or Lloyd
George or any of the great older men who continued
in politics, and Isay that none of us, in any part of the
world should claim that because in other parts of the
world there were old men who still contributed to pub -
lic life, they are therefore, by reason of that, entitled
to continue; but a man would be completely wrong to
continue when he felt that he could not really physical-
ly do it, and equally, he would be wrong if he felt that
he could physically continue to help his people in poli-
tics, and he retired just because some of the younger












generation felt that he should give way and make room
for them. I am really absolutely and honestly very ap-'
preciative of those who have wished me a happy birth-
day, and I promise them that for the future I shall not
let them down. The day on which I feel that I really
cannot contribute in the way that I hope I have suc-
ceeded in contributing in the past, Iwill cheerfully re-
tire. I thank you again, Mr. Speaker. (CHEERS).

RESOLUTION RE DEATH OF DR. MARTIN
LUTHER KING ( JUNIOR )

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, again before we
proceed, I think this might be the appropriate mo-
ment, if the other side of the House agrees, for the
House to record in a motion its profound sorrow at the
death of Dr. Martin Luther King Jnr., and I therefore
beg to move the passing of the following Resolution: -

"BE IT RESOLVED that this House place on re-
cord its profound sympathy at the death of Dr. Martin
Luther King Jnr., the distinguished Civil Rights Lead-
er in the United States of America anda Nobel Prize
winner for peace;

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Govern-
ment of Barbados be asked to forward a copy of this
Resolution to Dr. King's widow." (AFTER APAUSE)

Mr. Speaker, it has been suggested to me from
the other side that instead of the words and a Nobel
Prize winner for peace" this Resolution should read
"a Nobel Prize winner for international and inter-
racial peace". This amendment I accept.

Mr. Speaker, I do not think that the moderate
terms in which this Resolution might be cast are in
any way meant to disguise the profound horror and
shock which have been felt in all parts of the world
by the circumstances of Dr. King's death. We natural -
ly use words of sober restraint in transacting parlia -
mentary business of this formal nature, but this must
not, of course, disguise, from time to time, how deep-
ly we feel on the question of a particular moment. The
manner of Dr. King's death has shockedthe Civilised
world inside and outside of his own native country, and
has left us all aghast and staggered at the mounting
tide of violence which seems to be sweeping the United
States of America and other countries at this time of
the Twentieth Century. Much has been saidabout Dr.
King which could be said over and over again the
wide outlook which he possessed, the deepandfirm-
ly entrenched humanitarian instincts, instincts which
were illumined by the Christian faith which he held'
with great vigour to the end. The, distinguished lead-
ership which he brought to the Civil Rights Move-
ment at the time when it needed that kind'of leadership
badly, and the influences for good which he spread
among the Negro Community of the United States and
across the racial barriers of the whole world, the
distinguished contribution which he has made to na-
tional understanding and the appreciation which it
has .gained for a section of enlightened American
opinion in the countries of the world all these and
more have been his. But I think that perhaps his
greatest contribution of his life and times must, in the


1595
- i i / .. .. .


long run, be assessed by the basic faiths which he held
and which in form were the sheet anchor of his daily
existence.

Many persons, I believe, in the centuries which
have gone, have paid the supreme sacrifice for the
things in which they passionately believed, and all of
them, in their respective times and situations, were
looked upon as religious or spiritual or political geni-
uses by their contempories. Dr. King was, I think
each and every one of these. His tactics and strategy
of non-violence in a difficult situation met, on the one
hand, the suspicion and hatred of the White obscuran-
tists in the Southern part of the United States, and the
understandable,though somewhat misguided, suspicion
of the Negro radicals on the other, Who wanted quick
results and wanted them in a certain way.
3.30 p.m.

Buffeted by these conflicting, though in some re-
spects indentical forces on either side, he maintained
his basic faith that if you want a peaceful world you
have to preach and practice peace. He nevertired of
saying that he got his Christain outlook from Christ
and his tactics from Mahatma Ghandi. Nobody, not
even in his own country first of all and the rest of the
world can rightfully assess what this tragedy would
mean in the years to come.

This, however, we knowthat in a short life of un-
der 40 years he sweetened and illumined the country
in which he lived, and created for it through his own
exertions a reputation of decency which other as-
pects of its life might well easily be lacking.

And so we leave him to the proper assessment of
history which I know will place its full evaluation on
his efforts.

Mr. Speaker, as I am never tired of saying on oc -
casions like these,-before someone's death can become
a world wide tragedy or even a national sorrow, it is
first of all a personal bereavement to his nearest and
dearest, and I think that we ought properly to spare a
thought for his widow and for his young children to
whom his death must be the most earth-shattering
event of all their lives; because as much as we know
that this event has been felt in every corner of the
world wherever there are decent, human and liberal
instincts, it could not have been felt with such poig-
nancy and sense of personal loss as by Mrs. King,
her children, and his father, brothers and sisters.

It is to them that we first of all extend our heart-
felt condolences, and further to his country and to the
cause for which he died. Ihave no pleasure in moving
this Resolution, I must say that; but I feel a great
sense of responsibility In urging the House, as I know
the House will agree, to set on record not only the
sense of sorrowwhich itfeels, but in doing so ourpro-
found and utter detestation of all forms of racial bigo-
try and intolerance.

Sir Grantley ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, if I do not
speak at any great length it is not because I do not
feel as profoundly as anyone should feel on this occa-








1596


.sion, but because the Leader of the House has so elo-
quently expressed the sentiments of all of us not only
in this Assembly but of this i island, of our race and peo-
ples everywhere who suffer under discrimination and
who see what is apparently getting worse and not bet-
ter.

In spite of the assassination of Dr. King, in spite
of the fact that it will give a great deal of ammunition
to the people who believe in violence, in spite of the
fact that leaders, recently respected leaders among
the coloured peoplesof the world have been saying:
"I told you so," that we will never succeed without
violence, that non-violence is useless and stupid in
spite of all of that, our experience in the West Indies,
with occasional lapses like what unfortunately hap-
pened in British Guiana a fewyears ago history has
taught us that preaching constitutional reform will
succeed even though it may take a long time.

I go further and I say this. It will always take less
time to get things by constitutional fight than by vio-
lence. After all, to put it in simple and perhaps cruder
language, if you have not got an army, a more power -
ful army than your Colonial oppressor, why fight? If
Black Power in the U.S.A. can beat the United States
Army, then it is their duty, not only commonsense,
bi" their duty to the cause for which they fight to use
viience.

Civil wars and even the history of the U.S. itself
shows that if you are fighting foraprinciple, and you
feel that by arms you can beatyour opponents then it
is your duty to use your arms; but is it not stupid for
any people in any Colonial territory to feel that they
can succeed in throwing over Colonialism or putting
an end to racial discrimination by violence? I think
it is extremely stupid.

Ghandi was assassinated by a very stupid man -
and I use the mildest adjective I can think of. India
got her freedom not by these occasional outbursts
any more than Guyana got her freedom. We here in
Barbados can claim that never in the three hundred
years of our history has there been any attempt by
violence to get constitutional improvements.

In 1937 two English newspapers, commenting on
the riots, said that the so-called riots of 1937 took
the form of raiding potato fields and digging up pota-
toes, that it was not a riot but an anti-hunger out-
burst.

Barbadians have always been accused of boasting
- perhaps we have something to boast about; but we
were the first to get constitutionally the reins of
Government. I do not want to take credit upon myself
because I happened to be there, but I was the first
Premier in the Colonial Empire thateverhadany
power given to him to deal with the Police Force,
because the whole idea was that for the sake of se-
curity the Police must always be in the hand of the
Imperial power.

Jamaica, that extraordinary nation, was sur-
prised that Barbados should have a greater measure


of self-government than was given to any other part
of the Colonial Empire in Africa, near East or far
East or in American Colonial territories. Why did it
happen? Not because I personally was there,.but be-
cause the Barbadian people had proved to the British
Government that they were determined by consti-
tutional methods to seek for reform and not just to
have riots, looting, burnings and fires.

Martin Luther King preached that and he died be-
cause of that. He was a firm believer that a subject
people have never succeeded by violence. I am a firm
believer, no matter what may happen in any part of
the world, that if you have got a good case and you
present it forcibly and without exaggeration, you will
eventually win through.

You may find disappointments; but all history has
taught us and will show that unless you have a bigger
army, it is stupid to use force. Iam sure that Martin
Luther King did not look at if from what you might call
that low attitude; I think that, just as Mahatma Ghandi
did not preach that if you do not have an army you
should not use violence and why fight, Martin Luther
King preached as a matter of commonsense andprin-
ciple that you should use non-violence;
3.40 p.m.

I feel absolutely sure that all those who may
sneer now at us who do not believe in preaching vio-
lence in spite of all that the non-violent attitude
to reformation and to reforming evil conditions and
to getting the better of racial discrimination will
prevail.

I seize this opportunity with your permission, Mr.
Speaker, to speak on racial discrimination as it affects
West Indians. As some of you may know, Mr. Enoch
Powell is an extraordinarily brilliant, clever man. He
is absolutely a profound Greek scholar, a Greek cri-
tic; he knows about Greek culture and so on. He is as
good as most people; he could be a University Pro-
fessor tomorrow and be one of the greatest. It is said
that he writes English Poetry almost as freelyas he
eats and drinks. He has been said to be a man who
steps out of the Renaissance. He is that type of scho-
lar. But when he makes the speech which he makes,
is it not abundantly clear that culture and great op-
portunities are not a guarantee that the human heart
is there to treat your fellowman as you would have
him treat you?

I cannot imagine a greater example of the neces-
sity of thinking that a man's position, orhis brains,
or his ability, is not guarantee of his humanity. I
think that we West Indians should put on record, and
that is why I seized this opportunity because, as far
as I know, there is not at present before the House
any Resolution with regard to the present position in
Great Britain, but we should seize every opportunity
in this Island to protest most strongly against the bla-
tant, open "Keep England White" preaching that is
taking place in England today.

After all, when war takes place, they do not
remember if a man is black or white. You are called









1597


to the colours; you die for White England, and then-
you will find 50% or so of White England saying: "We
do not want these Blacks!" We in this House should
place on record, as strongly as possible, how much
we appreciate the principles of people like Martin
Luther King, and how much we deprecate the state-
ments of the sort made by people like Mr. Powell.

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the fact that Ihave had
this opportunity of supporting the Leader of the
House in this Resolution.

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, it is customary to keep
the best wine, at any time, for the last. I do not know
if wine can in any way be associated with the
assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King, except for
the precept that he led a life and followed in the
footsteps of the Christ. We have it with us that the
shedding of blood on that occasion was memoralized
in the wine and the cup. For this reason, Sir, I think
that at this stage, I would like to give what I may
call a compilation of some of the violent attacks
which were made upon Dr. Martin Luther King during
the short period of 12 years, and, having told the
House what he had to face until the hour of his death,
I would then be in a very much better position to tell
the House something of the other side of Dr. King's
life.

Mr. Speaker, on the 30th January, 1956, less than
two months after Dr. King became the Leader of the
Bus Boycott in Montgomery, Alabama, the first time
his name ever came into prominence as a Civil
Rights Leader, a bomb was thrown on the porch of
his home, but it did not explode and no one was
injured.

On the 23rd December, four days after Blacks
and Whites rode on buses in Montgomery, Alabama,
free from segregation and Jim Crow for the first
time, a shot-gun blast was fired into the front door
of Dr. Martin Luther King's home,but no one was hurt.

On January 22, 1937 a bomb was thrown once
again on the porch of his home. This, too, failed to
explode, and there was no injury.

On September 3, 1958, Dr. King was arrested
and charged with loitering while on his way to a legal
hearing in Montgomery, Alabama, which involved his
co-worker, Reverend Dr. Abernathy.

On November 17, 1958, in Harlem, New York
City, Dr. King was in a bookstore. In that bookstore
he was autographing copies of his book "The Stride
Towards Freedom," and a black woman, Mrs. Izola
Ware Curry, stabbed him in the chest with a steel
letter-opener. It was about seven inches long, and it
was later discovered that it had been manufactured
in Japan. The weapon narrowly missed Dr. King's
heart. He was rushed to Harlem Hospital with the
weapon still in his chest. His life was saved by the
swift performance of an operation, and twelve days
after the operation Dr. King walked out of Harlem
Hospital without assistance.


On the 21st May, 1961, a mob of 1,000 Southern
white people, angry about the freedom rights, threat-
ened Dr. King with violence as he was holding a
meeting attended by 1,500 Blacks in the First Baptist
Church of Montgomery, Alabama. He was protected,
then, Sir, on that occasion by the NatiQoal Guards-
men who also escorted the Black congregation to their
homes.

On September 28, 1962, during a convention of
the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, held
in Birmingham, Alabama, Roy James, a white man,
who described himself as a member of the American
Nazi Party, struck Dr. King twice in the face,
causing bruises and swellings. Dr. King did not press
charges against him, but the police did so. James
was fined a mere $25 andcosts,andhe was also sent
to prison for 30 days.

On June 30, 1963, in Harlem, New York City,
certain people of the militant group who did not like
his non-violent policy, threw eggs at his car as he
was on his way to speak in a Harlem Church.

On January 18, 1965, as Dr. King was registering
at a previously all-white hotel in Southern Alabama,
James George Robinson, a white man 26 years old,
of Birmingham, Alabama, a member of the "White-
hate-the-Blacks group" of the National States Rights
Party, punched and kicked Dr. King. Robinson was
arrested, tried on assault charges, fined $100 and
sentenced to 60 days.
3.50 p.m.

August 5, 1966. On this date in Chicago, State
of Illinois, Dr. King was struck on the head by a
stone thrown at him as he was leading marchers past
a group of angry Whites on the South West side of
this City. After being struck by the stone, he stum-
bled, but he raised himself up and continued on the
march. Later on that same day, a knife was thrown
at him, but it missed him and struck a White youth
in the neck.


April 4, 1968. That was when the last attack was
made on the life of Dr. King and it killed him. A White
assassin shot him in the neck as he was standing
in the balcony of the Motel at which he was a tem -
porary resident in Memphis, Tennessee.

Mr. Speaker, Dr. King was born on January 15th,
1929, at a comfortable thirteen-room two-storey
house at 501 Auburn Avenue, Atlanta, Georgia. His
father, Rev. Martin Luther King Senior., now 69
years old, was then, as now, the pastor of Ebenezer
Baptist Church of Atlanta. This Church now has a
membership of over four thousand. The Rev. Martin
Luther King senior., had married Albertha, the
daughter of the late Rev. Daniel Williams, who, for
thirty-seven years, had been pastor of the aforesaid
Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta.

Dr. Martin Luther King was educated at the
Booker T. Washington High School, Atlanta, then at








1598


Morehouse, a College connected with the Atlanta-
University system. He next went to Crozer Theologi-
cal Seminary, Chester, Pennsylvania, a school for
graduate studies. There he topped the field in every-
thing. He was President of a senior class, and won
a fellowship to study for his Ph.D. at any University
of his choice. He chose Boston College and studied
there for his Ph.D. completing the residential re-
quirements for his degree in 1953, having been in
school for a period of twenty-one years without a
break. In the same year, he accepted a call to pastor
the Dextor Avenue Baptist Church in Montgomery,
Alabama. It was there that he later met his wife,
Coretta Scott. They were married on June 18, 1953,
and four children were born to this marriage.

Mr. Speaker, Dr. King died as a martyr, the
first martyr of the Movement of non-violence which
he preached and which he led. He was most dedicated
and most renowned. Among the high honours that were
bestowed upon him during the short span of his busy
life, was the Nobel Peace Prize. This was an award
with a Gold Medal and a Citation which he received
at Oslo, Norway, on December 10th 1964. Dr. King
received the amount of $53,123 United States curren-
cy, and what is remarkable about this, Mr. Speaker,
is that of that sum of money, Dr. King never spent
one penny on his family. He distributed it amongst
all the Movements of non-violence that were in need
of it. His death is a great loss to the United States,
and I want to go further and say that it is a great loss
to the world, for from his first efforts to obtain
justice and freedom from injustice and oppression for
his people, he had lived under the threat of death,
but for him it meant nothing. At all stages he made
it know that he was fully alive to the fact that death
would come some day, and on the night before he
was assassinated, he was the preacher at a big
Church in Memphis, Tennessee, where the garbage
collectors were holding their rally. If Iwere to quote
from the sermon which he preached on that occasion,
he said these words:

"I do not know what will happen now. We have
got difficult days ahead, but it does not matter with
me because I have been to the mountain top. Like
anyone else, I would like to live a long life, but I
am not concerned with that. I just want to do God's
will."

Mr. Speaker, those words, to my mind, were
prophetic. He knew that as he was engaged in the
Civil Rights fight, murder might come to him at
any time. When murder did come to him, it shocked
the civilised world and you and I, Mr. Speaker, must
have some sense of human feelings. We must be
moved and touched by it all, especially whenwe look
around this Honourable Chamber and see ourselves
as all brothers of Martin Luther King andthe people
for whom he struggled most. His sudden and brutal
removal from this earth was deeply mourned by peo -
ple of all religious faiths and, Sir, I would not at-
tempt to take this Honourable House along that
solemn journey on that day, but it is known that all
who had a conscience of feeling, all who have respect
for human suffering and human dignity, all who have


-a love for peace and non-violence for which Dr.
King fought and struggled hard, turned out to pay their
last respects on that occasion.

Mr. Speaker, that was the day that many high-
ranking Church dignitaries, many highly-placed peo-
ple in the United States Civil Service wept, but, Sir,
it was not a weeping for fashion. They were not
professional mourners; they were all people who had
been touched or moved in some way by the way in
which Dr. Martin Luther King had pursued his course
of non-violence. He was a true Christian; he was one
who really and truly did turn the other cheek, so to
speak, and when we look around and recall the death
of the late President J. F. Kennedy, we must think
in terms of those lesser mortals whose presence on
that day, the day on which Dr. King was buried, as
bearing testimony to the esteem in which this Chris-
tian man had lived.
4.00 p.m.

Mr. Speaker, on that day men and women, despite
their every effort at restraint tears rolled down
their cheeks; and a News Reporter of a very reputable
journal in the United States, writing in respect of
the Reverend Andrew Young and the Choir said that
tears were glistening on the cheeks of members of
the Choir as they sang the favourite hymns. What
were the favourite hymns? With your permission,
Sir, those favourite hymns were: "My Heavenly
Father Watches Over Me." "Softly and Tenderly
Jesus is calling," "Let the Billows Roar" and, Mr.
Speaker, "We Shall Overcome."

I do not propose, Sir, to tire the House further
at this stage; but Martin Luther King's death, I must
say, has not brought home to the people of Barbados
what it ought to have brought home to them, I can-
not help recalling that on the day of his funeral some
of the business houses in Bridgetown flew their
flags at half mast, but some did not. I repeat: Some
did not.

Sir, those are the things which have been noticed
not only by me, but by many who have come to realise
that Martin Luther King lived for a purpose and that
he did not live in vain. With those few words, Sir,
I heartily support this Resolution and I must say that
for my part I have had to exercise considerable
restraint; if not, I too would have let my tears roll
down my cheek.

Mr. LYNCH: Mr. Speaker, I rise to support this
Resolution on behalf of my party, my senior col-
league not being in his seat. Every man's death
diminisheth me and I am so much diminished, there-
fore, when a great man like Martin Luther King dies.

The news of his death was greeted on every side
by manifestations of shock, surprise and horror. If
there is to be any consolation for those who appre-
ciated Dr. King's life and his work it may, perhaps,
be found in the words of the poet, Horace "Non
omnis morietur" he will not wholly die.
We are convinced, Mr. Speaker, that the example
which he has left behind him will remain as long as








1599


men celebrate the achievements of those who fight
for minorities by various means. It is not for me to
go specifically into the various achievements of Dr.
King's many-faceted life. It is too well known to bear
repetition; but I would like to associate myself with
the sentiments that have already been so eloquently
expressed on the floor of this House.

Mr. CORBIN: Mr. Speaker, I rise to support the
Resolution concerning the assassination. I must say
that Mr. King was one of the most dedicated men of
his day. I am sure that he was a light that shone
in the darkness. He was far away in the United
States, but his light shone all over the world.

He sought peace and non-violence in trying to
overthrow racial discrimination and in trying his
best to live and exist between the black and the
white. Mr. Speaker, the light shone in the darkness
and the darkness comprehended it not. He died, but
his light will shine. As it is said, you will kill a
dreamer, but you cannot kill the dream. The dream
remains.

Dr. King sought peace andlove. All he asked was
that men should reason together. Any man of wisdom
knows that this world was made not for one race, but
for very man that is allowed to live in it, whether
black or white and regardless of his position. They
should all live in peace and have love towards one
another.

A man cultivates the land, cuts the timber,
builds houses and takes the iron from the ground
and provides us with all sorts of transport, and yet
in certain countries he is segregated. He cannot sit
with certain other men. That happens in the United
States, in England and in other big countries. How
can they expect that we can live without food, without
clothes and without proper houses?

Some people, Mr. Speaker, today feed their
dog"' on beef steak while their servants cannot even
get salt fish. How can they feel good?
4.10 p.m.
But God looks down into the heart of everyone, and
his day will come. There is a day that will come
when every man has to give an account of his deeds
before the just, righteous Judge. If he is in the dust,
he has to get up and give an account of his deeds; if
he is on the mountain top,he will have to come down;
if he is in the bowels of a whale, he will have to come
out and give an account of the deeds he has committed
in this world against others.

I am certain, Mr. Speaker, that Dr. Martin
Luther King has performed one of the greatest tasks
that any man in the world could ever thing of -
making peace. "Blessed are the peacemakers: for
they shall be called the children of God. Blessed are
they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. Blessed
are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Blessed
are they which are persecuted for righteousness'
sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." Even
when he was reviled he reviled not again. He bore
his punishment in order to get the nation together.


In the midst of all this, Mr. Speaker, we shall over-
come, somehow.

There is nothing that frightens a man more
and causes the big people of the world to be more
afraid than to see people fighting without weapons
and ammunition. This is what the Lord tells us:
"Peter, put up thy sword. He that fight with the
sword shall die with the sword." We intend to fight
this racial discrimination with non-violence. It is
the only possible means of our future existence.

The death of Dr. Luther King has shocked the
whole world. When I heard of the deathof Dr. Martin
Luther King, it shocked my modesty. My heart
yearned for a man of that type. He was a man who
reminded me of the Good Saviour. He tries to save
others from destruction, and not to fight and kill
one another. That is what we are here for. Wherever
there is goodness, you will find the opposition out
to destroy it. Wherever there is light, they want
to shut the light out so that the world will be in
darkness. The light shineth in darkness, and the
darkness will not comprehend it.

May God bless Dr. Martin Luther King in his
grave, and those who, he leaves to mourn, I trust
that God will keep them in peace until the perfect
day.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, this is the
second time since I have been in this House that I
am going to say anything on behalf of the death of
any person. I got up in support of the Resolution,
but before I speak on it, I want to make it abundantly
clear that I do not agree with the first two speakers
(the Leader of the House and the Leader of the Oppo-
sition) in some of the remarks they have made.
But since I have got up to eulogise someone, there
is no need for an argument at this stage, but at a
later stage I will bring out the points with which I
disagree.

It is very ironical, Mr. Speaker, that a man like
Dr. Martin Luther King, who traversed the entire
Universe and visited almost every State in the United
States preaching peace and love, should be cut down
by violence. When I first started to speak, I said that
I did not agree wholeheartedly with Dr. Martin Luther
King's approach to certain matters.

Some 1900 years ago, Christ was on this earth;
He preached love and peace to mankind, and He ended
up on a cross crucified. Now, Mr. Speaker, I am one
of those people who believe that a man's shipwreck
should be my lighthouse. If you went down the road
and you were attacked by hooligans, I would try to
avoid going down that road, unless I armed myself
to fight the hooligans. Christ, it is said, knew where
he was going, but I do not know if Martin Luther
King knew where he was going.

I know that we have such people like Rap Brown,
Stokely Carmichael, Malcolm X he died at the hands
of a gunman, and strange enough he has never
preached race violence or hatred. But you have







1600


people like Rap Brown and Stokely Carmichael -
people who I support 100% who are yet with us.
You get parasites like George Wallace, Ellender of
Louisiana, Stetinus of Mississippi. Mr. Speaker,
the world is comprised of three billion people, and I
can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that more than
2 1/2 billion of the people who live in this world
can only see a man, as long as the colour of his
skin is different from theirs, as their inferior.

It is true that Martin Luther King had maybe
he was God-inspired, but I do not know. If I, Neville
Boxill, were shot down by an assassin's gun, even
if I did not die, I would say that I am somewhat of
a violent temper, and maybe I had met my just re-
ward; but it is extremely difficult to believe how
people can go on fooling themselves that we can
fight hatred and violence with love and peace. They
are just wasting time.

Christ came on this earth, Mr. Speaker; He
preached up and down, and nobody paid Him any mind
until He shed His blood. It is after He was crucified
that people realized that He was the Messiah. I am
not preaching hatred or race violence, but I am a
Negro and you can see me from a mile off. If the
Negro man thinks, in this world today, that he is
going to achieve anything without fighting for it, then
he is making a sad mistake. Do not let anybody fool
himself that the criminal who shot Martin Luther
Kind, hated Martin Luther King to that extent that
he would have bought himself a gun with telescopic
lens to shoot King. He was only carrying out the
wishes of minus 18 million of the 190 million people
in the United States. It is all right for people to make
a lot of sweet eulogies after you are dead. King is
no use to us dead. You pass legislation in a hurry,
but King is no use to us dead.

Four hundred years, Mr. Speaker, is a long
time for anybody to wait. We have been waiting for
400 years, and up to now all we have managed to get
are the crumbs from the other fellow's table. It is
time that we become more positive in our approach
to these matters. From what I have said here today,
I may be branded as a racist, but that is all right
with me. George Wallace is branded as a racist, too,
but he goes all over the States; his child can go to
school free, and nobody worries about the colour of
his child's skin.

I know what I am, and I know what I am talking
about, Mr. Speaker. I have lived in the South for quite
some time. The hon. junior member for St. Peter
read something about when Dr. Martin Luther King
came into prominence. Ironically enough, Mr. Speak-
er, I was in Alabama at the time. This is the kind
of thing that you will get all the time. Surely, we will
get more Martin Luther Kings, but it is also sure
that they will be cut down by the assassin's rifle.
4.20 p.m.

Do you know why, Mr. Speaker? It is because we
are living in a sick society. Man has failed and the
world has failed because man within himself is a


failure. It is all right for us to get up and talk a lot
of sweet talk, and we do not see that anybody is
being any different from us and all the rest of it;
but it seems to me that in this sick world in which
we live, even here in this country, you see that the
red-skinned, straight-hair type, although he will
call you by your name and you, most likely, can call
him by his first name, all of this never used to
happen before, of course, you will notice that when
you are invited to the home of these people for
dinner, if you are fortunate enough to be so invited,
in nine out ot ten times they go from one extreme to
the other. They either overdo this trying to make you
believe that you belong to something or if they get
a few drinks in their heads, they cannot help telling
you what the position is. Well, Sir, I know what the
position is because I have told you that I lived in the
south of the United States and Iwas not there for any
one day; I was there for a considerable time and I
know what it is.

You see Baptist Churches for Whites only, so
you are preaching to God and you have to preach to
a White God. There is another thing which I have
been noting. Martin Luther King was cut down just
before Good Friday, somewhat reminiscent of why
we were celebrating Good Friday. Sir, this is not an
attack on anybody; this is how I feel. I cannot
remember reading of any one Minister among us
having the courage to get up in his pulpit and talk
about the injustices that are being created not
against humanity but against Black people. This has
been going on for too long. As I said, when I began
to speak, 400 years is a long time for anybody to
wait. If you have more people like Martin Luther
King who feel that they can achieve anything or they
can achieve their objects by being pacificts, getting
hit on one cheek and turning the other cheek, that is
all right with me; but I support the methods of
Stokely Carmichael and Rap Brown, as I have said
already and I will say again. I have been watching
that a lot of blood has been spilled recently, and
when you take a census of the amount of blood
spilled, you will notice that it was only Black people's
blood. We cannot go on with this nonsense all the
time, fooling ourselves that what has happened in the
United States will not happen in England. There are
no Martin Luther Kings in England. They only thought
that they pass legislation, but a human being should
be treated like a human being. You will see for your-
self as to members of the Democratic Labour Party,
the Party which is in power how, because of
political expediency, what has happened. There are
four million Blacks in Rhodesia and Ian Smith went
on a British battleship and told Wilsonthathe could
fly and get wherever he could go, and he walked off
the British battleship; but the British went to Uganda
and kidnapped King Freddie. They sent a plane,
called him to the Governor's house, put him on the
plane and in England he was ostracized, vilified and
everything for ten or eleven years. We have been so
well brain-washed that none of us have had the
courage to get up and say anything because we do not
want to offend our White master, because if we say
anything against the Colonial Office, when we go to











-England they will not come and meet us. As far as I"
am concerned, I have no use for England. Those are
the sort of things which you see perpetrated against
us, and when I say "us", I mean people looking like
you and me. We cannot go on any longer.

Mr. Speaker, I am supporting the Resolution
because in order to win a Nobel Prize, you have to
have some sort of stature and character; but, as I
said before, I have never agreed with Martin Luther
King's method, because Christ has been here before
him and this leaves us to ask if Christ did not die in
vain. Let them preach it in the pulpits; let them
preach it on the housetops that I said so. I am
wondering if Christ did not die in vain because Christ
died so that men might be free and might live with
each other. Christ died over 1,900 years ago, and a
man is being hated today, not because he is a crook,
not because he is a thief, but because he is black.
God in his wisdom knew why he made us in this way.
It may be that we are the people who will survive the
atom bomb, who knows? No one can question God, but
what I do not fully understand is this; in less than an
hour after John F. Kennedy was shot down, Lee
Oswald Harvey was shot. It is now almost a month
that Martin Luther King has been shot down and a
criminal Starvo Galt can still be at large. This proves
conclusively that he has supporters, that it is some-
body :at this time who is sheltering him. You must
not be surprised if you hear that he is being sheltered
by George Wallace or any of the persons whose
names I have called, because they will all do it.
Martin Luther King was not short of that because as
far as I can see, you cannot go on losing life.and
blood and you do not spill any. If you want to achieve
anything, you must shed blood. That is how I see it.
I am not a violent man, but nobody is going to make
a fool of me. Don't think that you are hitting me on
one cheek and I will turn the other cheek, because I
do not know where I am going after I have finished.

Mr. Speaker, in suppo:' of the Resolution, Imust
say how deeply shocked I am, I would not say, as
other speakers have said, that the world is shocked.
Do not let us fool ourselves; the world was not
shocked. A few people in the world, and most people
like you and me are the people who felt it most
because we felt that Martin Luther King was doing
something in order to achieve an object. The other
people felt it and, as a result, he was cut down just
as you would cut down a rattle snake or something
which has never contributed anything to this society.

Mr. SPEAKER: Before I put this question to the
vote and I propose to do it in the usual manner
when we are mourning the death of any person as a
Chamber that we do so standing for two minutes;
but before I actually ask hon. members to rise with
me and indicate their approval of the passing of this
Resolution, I will associate myself with all the
sentiments contained in this Resolution, and this
Resolution, hon. members will recall, reads as
follows : -

"BE IT RESOLVED that this House place on
record its profound sympathy at the death of Dr.


1601


MVartin Luther King Jnr., the distinguished Civil
Rights Leader in the United States of America and
a Nobel Prize winner for peace;

"BE IT RESOLVED that the Government of
Barbados be asked to forward a copy of this Resolu-
tion to Dr. King's widow, to the President of the
United States of America and to Rev Dr. Ralph
Abernathy."

Will hon. members rise in their places for two
minutes to signify the passing of this Resolution?

The question was put and resolved in the affirmative with-
out division.

Mr. SPEAKER: I declare this Resolution un-
animously to have been passed, and, in the absence
of the Clerk, I will request the Deputy Clerk to take
the appropriate action without delay to ensure that
the terms of this Resolution are duly and promptly
carried out.
4.30 p.m.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I would like to
suggest to the other side that the Chairman of Com-
mittees has intimated to me that he does not feel at
all well, and would like to be excusedfrom his duties
as early as conveniently he can be so excused. This is
the first day that he has come out of bed after an ill-
ness.

I would like to suggest that we proceed with Gov-
ernment Business first in which we have Committee
of Supply, and after that come back to Question Time
so that the Chairman would be able to get off earlier.
Question Time will be fairly extensive from what I
can see.

Sir Grantley ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, the Leader
of the House has not told hon. members how many
Questions are on the Order Paper. Surely the House
can readily agree to the appointment of a Deputy
Chairman.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Very well, Mr. Speaker. I beg
to move that Question Time be now taken.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: I beg to second that.
,Th.e.question was put and resolved in the affirmative with-
qut division.

QUESTION TIME

Mr. SPEAKER: Reply to Question No. 49 standing
in the name of the Hon. junior member for St. Joseph,
Page 3, right hand column.

Sir Grantley ADAMS: To enquire of the Prime
Minister:-

What is the Government's policy towards
(a) alignment.
(b) non-alignment with the countries common-
ly called East and West in the current cold
war between them?








1602


Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, the Reply is as
follows: -


The foreign policy which the Barbados Govern-
ment proposed to pursue was outlined by the Prime
Minister and Minister of External Affairs in his ad-
dress to the General Assembly of the United Nations
on 6th December, 1966, on the occasion of the admis-
sion of Barbados to the United Nations Organisation.
This address is contained in Appendix 11 of the Re-
port of the Ministry of External Affairs for the year
1967 which was laid in Parliament on 12th March, 1968.

The various international issues on which the
Government of Barbados has exhibited its indepen-
dence of judgment are set out at paragraphs 28 40
of the Report referred to above.

The statements in paragraphs 6 and 7 of the Prime
Minister's address clearly indicate that in all matters
of international affairs Barbados intends to pursue an
independent policy and that it reserves the right to
make decisions on all international issues without
prejudice to or against any other state, great or small.

Sir Grantley ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, this is a
Supplementary Question. Does the Hon. Leader of the
House really and truly believe that the Government
of Barbados can pursue an independent policy in
external affairs? Can anyone please Russia and the
United States at the same time? That is share
hypocricy. I am asking if the Government really
intends to pursue an independent policy merely
because the Hon. Prime Minister says that at the
United Nations. Can anyone do it?

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, there are
several issues involved in a question like this. No one
is suggesting that Barbados, or countries bigger than
Barbados can pursue the sort of policy which the
Governments of the United States of America and the
Soviet Union can pursue.

At the same time, if it is possible for a country,
whether it is as small as Barbados or as large as
any other country, to bring independent judgement
to bear that is to say judgement not directly in-
fluenced at the behest of any other power I am
saying that an independent foreign policy does not
mean a totally isolated foreign policy, but a foreign
policy arising out of one's own judgeaient of what is
best for the country.

I cannot put it in any other way. I am sorry that
the hon, member used the word "hypocrisy" because
I do not think that it applies here any how; but that is
the context in which an independent foreign policy is
predicated. It is not independent of anybody else in
the world or in the United Nations, but independently
arrived at having regard to the particular interests of
the country which are best to be served.

Sir Grantley ADAMS: The hon. member is a
first class expositor of .point of view in eloquent
language that do not necessarily mean anything. Does


he say that the policy of this Government, if Russia
offered to give us a substantial sum of money to
develop Barbados, and the United States offered more
or Canada or Britain offered more or say, less -
would be to take the greater offer from Russia? Would
he sit down in the Cabinet and agree with that?

Hon. J. C.TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I really cannot
assist the hon. member by answering a hypothetical
question. What he must do is to get the Russians to
make an offer and then I may be able to answer.

Sir Grantley ADAMS: There are members on the
other side who are more in touch with the Russians
than I am, especially those who drink.
4.40 p.m.

Mr. SPEAKER: Is the hon. member putting a
supplementary question?

Sir Grantley ADAMS: Yes, Sir.

Mr. SPEAKER: I await it.

Sir Grantley ADAMS: Does the hon. member
know that? Instead of asking this side of the House to
ask Russia if they will produce the money, he should
ask some of his colleagues. I do not go abroad just
to spend the taxpayers' money; I go to International
Organizations at which Ige: a I i: of International news.

Mr. SPEAKER: I am afraid that I cannot detect
the question.

Sir Grantley ADAMS: I will put it this way. Does
not the hon. member know that my informers are
International people? If I make a statement, I do not
make it for the sake of making a point in a debate,
but because I know certain things. I know, and I put
this to- the hon. member if he does not know, that
many non-British people are anxious to know what
are the reactions of the former British Colonies
towards the Cold War, because some Colonials are
very glad to get rid of the British South African
territories. I am putting the question, and Iam asking
if he does not know these facts. Some people are
anxious to be finished with the British, and they say:
"Let us join Russia." What is the attitude of the
Barbados Government?


Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, with the source
of information at the hon. member's command, if
this were the policy of the Barbados Government,he
would be the first to know it.


Sir Grantley ADAMS: I asked a simple question
to get a simple answer, because other people outside
of Barbados are wondering whether the West Indian
Islands are so happy to throw off the British rule -
as they put it, that we are on the side of Russia. That
is the sole reason for asking the question. Why can-
not he give a plain answer? If I were in the hon.
member's position, do you think that sort of silly
answer that nobody will believe would be given?








1603


Mr. SPEAKER: No comments, please.

Sir Grantley ADAMS: I will ask my final question.
Does the hon. member's answer mean that the chances
of the Barbados Government coming down on the side
of Russia on any question that may come before them
are as great as coming down on the side of the West:
Great Britain, the United States and Canada?

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: No greater, no lesser,
Mr. Speaker.

Sir Grantley ADAMS: If that is true, then we will
have to get rid of this Government by violence or
other means.

DISREPAIR OF HIGHWAY AT SHOP HILL

Mr. SPEAKER: Question No. 85 standing in the
name of the hon. senior member for St. Thomas. It
is at page 5, right hand column.

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, to enquire
of the Minister of Communications and Works:-

1. Is the Minister aware that the public road
linking the highway at Shop Hill with the highway at
Cane Garden via Ham Pond and Whitehall Village,
all in the parish of St. Thomas is only partially sur-
faced and is generally in a very bad state of repair?

2. Will the Minister take steps to have said
road repaired at the earliest opportunity?

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, the replies
are as follows:

1. Only a section of the road linking Shop Hill
Road with the Highway at Cane Garden is
owned by Government. The remaining sec-
tions which comprise Shop Hill Tenantry
Road,- Ham Pond and Whitehall Village are
privately owned.

2. Consideration will be given to the repair of
the section of the road owned by Government
when the road works programme for 1968-
69 is being prepared.

CONVEYING SICK PERSONS BY AMBULANCE

Mr. SPEAKER: Question No. 86 standing in the
name of the hon. junior member for St. Peter. It is
at page 5, right hand column.

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the ap-
propriate Minister: -

1. Is Government aware that the,ambulance
service for conveying sick persons from throughout
the Island to the Queen Elizabeth Hospital and other
institutions and places for medical treatment, is
hopelessly inadequate and very unsatisfactory?

2. Would Government care to centralise
-such ambulance service as are now available by


bringing them under one or more centres of control
with a view to reducing time wastage; and having such
ambulances as are now available, manned to provide
a 24-hour a day service?

3. Would Government consider the plight of
persons requiring such ambulance services -chiefly
young girls and old people and the hours such
services are found to be in demand chiefly at night
and seek to equip the available ambulances with a
wireless system for linking them to Police com-
munications, or instal a walkie-talkie system con-
necting the ambulances with their own central
headquarters, for efficiency of service?

4. What ambulance service (excepting police
in accident cases or other emergencies) are now
available to the public on Sundays and Bank-holidays?

5. Will Government examine the feasibility
of providing transport services for patients leaving
institutions for the sick on discharge, other than
ambulance, except in cases where the patient's con-
dition demands ambulance transport, and which
should be certified by a doctor?

6. Will Government see to it that the suffer-
ing public requiring ambulance services, are not
denied this through having all ambulances garage-
serviced the same day?

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, the
replies are as follows:

"1. No, Sir.

2. Yes Sir. The matter of centralisation
of the ambulance service was considered over
ten years ago, but rejected at that time. It has again
been under consideration during the past year, and
proposals for centralisation have been included in the
draft Development Plan which is now under study.

3. Yes Sir. The proposals include a V.H.F.
system of telecommunications.

4. The Queen Elizabeth Hospital, and the City
and Southern Districts of the Interim Commissioner's
Office provide an ambulance service on Sundays and
bank holidays."

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: When you have a ques-
tion of this sort I am referring to the first question
- and you answer "No", as the lawyers would say,
you must answer distributively. Are you aware that
it is hopelessly inadequate and very unsatisfactory?
Are you aware that it is adequate but not hopeless?
Merely to say "No" -a comprehensive "No" to a
question of this sort is not good enough. I am asking
the hon. member if he does not see that "No, Sir"
does not answer Question No. 1?

Mr. HUSBANDS: Mr. Speaker, can the Minister
tell us how many ambulance drivers are on hand at
the Mental Hospital?
4.50 p.m.







1604


bu Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, the am-
bulance service covering the whole island is com-
prised of ten units. There are three at the Queen
Elizabeth Hospital, two at the Police Department, two
at the City Council, one at the Southern District Coun-
cil, one at the Northern District Council and one at
the Mental Hospital.

Mr. HUSBANDS: I thank the hon. member for an-
swering that there is one driver available at the Men-
tal Hospital. Will the Minister tell me ...........

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Ididnotsaythere was
one driver. I said that there are ten units and I said
where the ten units are, and that they are adequate-
ly served.

Mr. HUSBANDS: Would the Hon. Minister tell me
how many ambulance drivers they are at the Mental
Hospital? I think that this is a direct and simple ques -
tion. How many ambulance drivers are they at the
Mental Hospital? If the Minister does not know, he can
say "I do not know," and I would be satisfied pro
tern.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: I do not know.(Laughter.)


Mr. HUSBANDS: Is the Minister aware that on
occasions when medical practitioners recommend
patients to be taken to the Mental Hospital, very often
when an enquiry has been sent out for an ambulance,
the reply from the Mental Hospital is that there is no
driver available for conveying the patient, or rather,
the prospective patient, to the Hospital? Is the Min-
ister aware of that?

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: I am aware of that, Mr.
Speaker.

Mr. HUSBANDS: I thank you. Will the Minister
give this House the assurance that that sort of condi-
tion will not repeat itself to the inconvenience of the
public? (A PAUSE) Mr. Speaker, the Minister does
not care to answer. May I add another supplemen-
tary question? Does the Minister know that Male
Nurses have got to be requested to drive the ambu-
lance out from the Mental Hospital to convey patients
to the Hospital? Is the Minster aware that Male
Nurses on duty on occasions have to act as drivers
of the ambulance to convey prospective patients to
the Hospital?

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, I am not
aware of that.

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, in order
to avoid any possible embarassement to the Cabinet
and the country, will the Minister see that a driver for
the Mental Hospital ambulance is always kept avail-
able within easy reach of Culloden Farm? (ASIDES).


Mr. HUSBANDS: Will the Minister investigate
the case of Male Nurses having to act as ambulance
drivers at the Mental Hospital?


Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: I will promise the hon.
member to investigate it.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Having made that
promise, might I suggest to the hon. member he did
not make any promise in relation to the other ques-
tion that every time that he is in a position not to
know, will the Minister ... (ASIDES) apart from keep-
ing that lunatic by his side quiet, will the hon. member
promise ..........

Mr. SPEAKER: Will the hon. member ..........

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: I withdraw that word
"lunatic". (ASIDES)

MR. SPEAKER: The word has been withdrawn
and there will be no more discussion on it. (ASIDES)
That word was withdrawn with the promptitude with
which I expect every other word that is unparliamen-
tary to be withdrawn.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: I did not know that it
was necessary, that "unparliamentary"; applied to
some people, it is a normal phrase.

Mr. SPEAKER: Anyhow, that is finished with.
That is completed.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: What is this lunatic
talking about? It is a normal phase.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: The hon. member must ask
a question; he cannot make a speech.

Mr. SPEAKER: I am afraidthat Ineedno advice
from the hon. junior member for St. Thomas.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: I was about to say that
some calamities take place; we are subject to hurri-
canes sometimes. Did the Minister believe that such
a calamity could ever take place, that the member
for St. Thomas would ever be in that Chair?

Mr. SPEAKER: That does not arise.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: I am sorry, Sir. This
is what I am putting to the Hon. Minister. Having an-
swered the last question in the way in which he
rightly should answer it, might I suggest to him, or
is he willing to do so at all times? That is to say, "I
do not know, I have not got the information, but I will
seek it out." He did not do that in respect of pre-
vious questions.

Mr. HINDS: Do I understand that the Minister
did not have the replies to questions 5 and 6?

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: The questions did not
arise.

Mr. HINDS: Is the Minister telling this House
that there are no cases where suffering members of
the public requiring an ambulance, find that all ambu-
lances have been garaged-serviced on that particular








1605


date? Is the Minister saying that such an occasion
never arose? I can give him chapter and verse and
make him look like an idiot.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: The Minister is saying
that he is not aware of this.

Mr. HINDS: That is entirely different thing. His
reply at first was that it did not arise; he is now say-
ing that he is not aware of it.

Mr. SPEAKER: Let the hon. member proceed to
the next supplementary question, if there is any.

Mr. HINDS: At question No. 1 the Minister's re-
ply was "No, Sir." Is the Minister sayingthat the am-
bulance services throughout the Island are adequate?
5.00 p.m.


HON. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, the Reply
was given to that question already. The hon. member
is only asking the same question in a different man-
ner.

SIR GRANTLEY ADAMS: Was it drawn to the
Minister's notice that about a week ago I happened
to enquire on behalf of some people in St. Joseph
for the use of an ambulance, that I was told to try
the Minister's department, and after having tried the
St. Joseph's Ambulance, and having been told that the
ambulance was in the garage being serviced, and
having got hold of Mr. Mottley, the hon. member for
the City, and having rung up the Police that I had
to do all those things before I could get an ambulance
to bring the person down to town? Was it reported
to the Minister's office?

HON. A.DaC. EDWARDS: Had it been reported
something would have been on the file dealing with
the matter. There is no record of this on the file.


PACKAGE TAX CHARGES

MR. SPEAKER: Question No. 91 standing in the
name of the hon. andlearnedmember for St. Thomas.

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS:

To enquire of the appropriate Minister of Trade:

1. What representation has the Minister
received from business operating in Barba-
dos in respect of the incidence of increased
Package Tax charges on goods imported into
Barbados intended for re-export?

2. Will the Minister agree that there are
many items forming a part of Barbados ex-
port trade especially to other Caribbean Is -
lands on which increased Package Tax
charges are absorbing a great proportion of
present operating margins?

3. Is the Minister aware that unless a refund
of part or all of the new Package Tax


charges is made on re-exported items the
export trade in these items will cease al-
together in the very near future?

4. Will the Minister treat this as a matter of
the greatest possible urgency and make im-
mediate representations for the purpose of
obtaining refunds of Package Tax on items
bona fide imported for re-export?

HON. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, the Reply is as
follows: -

1. "Representations have been made by two
companies operating in Barbados in re-
respect of the incidence of increased
Package Tax charges on goods which are
imported into Barbados and then re-
exported to the other islands of the
Eastern Caribbean.

2. The increased rate of package tax will
affect the very heavy items which cannot
be warehoused and which are subsequently
exported to the Leeward and Windward
Islands. It is impossible to state what pro-
portion (if any) of operating margins of
companies are absorbed by the increased
Package Tax charges.

3. & 4. The representations made were close-
ly examined to discover if there was a gen-
uine case of hardship consequent on the
change in the manner of computing Package
Tax charges. As a result of this investiga-
tion the Minister of Finance issued the Pack-
age Tax (Drawback of Tax) Notice, 1968,on
16th January, 1968. This Notice declares that
a drawback of Package Tax paid on the im-
portation of cylinders containing oxygen and
other locally manufactured gases and iron
and iron-work (including galvanised sheets)
shall be allowed on the exportation of any
of these articles from Barbados. Provision
has been made for the retroactive payment
of the drawback on cylinders with effect
from 11th June, 1963, and on iron and iron-
work with effect from 30th August, 1967
and the Package Tax (Drawback of Tax)
Notice, 1963, has been cancelled This No-
tice has been drafted in such a manner that
drawback in respect of any additional artic-
les may hereafter be made by merely
amending the Schedule."


Mr. J.M.G.M.. ADAMS: I think I understand the
answer. The only complaint that I would make is that
this question having been asked in August, and the
Order in response to the question having come down
in January, it is extraordinary that it has taken until
May to come before the House. I think that members
on this side would wish to see the answer. I take it
that the Minister is saying that although the question
is well founded the necessary legislative action has
already been taken to correct the abuse therein shown.








1606
I I r P I .


Mr. SPEAKER: Now where is the supplementary
question?

HON. J. C. TUDOR: May Iadd something because
obviously it could not have been put in the answer. I
have just been told by my colleague that the chief
reason for the delay was that several Ministries and
departments had to work on this matter, and that is
the reason why there has been this extraordinary
delay in answering this particular question.

SIR GRANTLEY ADAMS: I know that this ques-
tion is addressed to the "Appropriate Minister of
Trade." I understand that the junior member for St.
Michael is the Minister of Trade. From now on,
when I want to ask a question affecting trade must
I ask the Minister of Trade, or the appropriate Min-
ister of Trade who is apparently the Leader of the
House, or some other Ministry to go into the question
before I can get an answer?

HON. J. C. TUDOR: I think that the hon. and
learned senior member for St. Thomas wouldappre-
ciate that it was quite properly regarded as a fiscal
matter, and while it was routed to the Ministry of
Trade it had to be dealt with in the Ministry of
Finance because it deals with taxation.

MR. SPEAKER: I will say this, if I may, that I
would never have allowed the question to be put in
this way "to enquire of the appropriate Minister of
Trade." Sometimes questions are addressed to the
appropriate Minister and at other times to the Min-
ister proper. Unfortunately Mr. Clerk is nothere I
cannot understand why and I cannot have this matter
checked on.

SIR GRANTLEY ADAMS: I am asking whether
there is more than one Minister of Trade.

MR. SPEAKER: I have no reason to believe that
there is.

Mr. J.M.G.M. ADAMS: I would ask the Minister
to observe that this question was really meant to be
directed to the Minister of Trade. The word "appro-
priate" was an interpolation of the Officers of the
House because I ask the Minister of Trade in
paragraph 4 to make representations as Minister.
Would he say that I am wrong if I take it that his
Ministry is interested in promoting trade but there he
has to make representation to the Ministry of Finance
to allow trade to be carried on?

SIR GRANTLEY ADAMS: Ihope that members on
this side of the House or on the other side will drop
the word "appropriate." They should know what
Minister they are asking the question of. I am ask-
ing both the Hon. Leader of the House and my col-
leagues whether they do not think that it is appro-
priate to drop the word "appropriate."

HON. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, there is
question No. 80.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. senior member for
St. Joseph in whose name the question stands was


not in his place earlier, and therefore I have not
called that question yet. The hon. member intima-
ted that he had to leave.
5.10 p.m.

ASSOCIATE MEMBERSHIP OF EUROPEAN
ECONOMIC COMMUNITY

Mr. SPEAKER: Question No.100

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: Mr. Speaker,

To enquire of the appropriate Minister:-

Now that a responsible authority on Sugar
has pointed out the advantage that could accrue
to Barbados' Sugar Industry of Barbados seek-
ing associate membership of the European
Common Market, will the Government open
direct negotiations with the European Economic
Community with a view to applying for such
associate status?

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker, the reply
is as follows:

The Government does not consider it appro-
priate at this stage to open direct negotiations with
a view to seeking associate membership of the Europ-
ean Economic Community.

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, as a
supplementary question, Will the Minister answer
what may be a hypothetical question, but it is this:
Should Britain succeed in its application to join the
Common Market, has the Ministry taken any steps
to reconsider the matter?

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker, the
question of sugar is involved with the Sugar Agree-
ment with the United Kingdom Government, and this
would be dependent on whether the United Kingdom
could enter into the European Economic Community
with the Sugar Agreement. If she could do that, there
would be no necessity for Barbados to join as a sepa-
arate nation because she would be entering with the
Sugar Agreement. If Britian is not allowed to enter
with the Sugar Agreement, then there may be a nec-
essity to approach the European Economic Com-
munity.

Mr. J. M. G. M ADAMS: Would the Minister
agree that Britain wishes to carry the Common-
wealth Sugar Agreement into the European Economic
Community because she pays Barbados a smaller
price than the European Economic Community sugar
price? She pays a smaller price under the Common-
wealth Sugar Agreement. Will the Minister agree with
that, first of all?

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: The entire Common-
wealth countries met at a Conference in London some
time last year for a decision to be made, and it has
been left open pending Britain's entry or arrange-
ments for her entry into the European Economic
Community.








1607


Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, does the
Minister see the point that the European Economic
Community sugar price is a great deal higher than
the Commonwealth Sugar Agreement sugar price and,
therefore, it is in Barbados' interest to try to have the
sugar price increased, not maintained, should Britain
enter the Eurpean Economic Community?

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker, I agree
that there is a higher price paid to the French
countries like Martinique and Gaudeloupe. They will
receive higher prices in the European Economic
Community than are at present paid by the Common-
wealth Sugar Agreement. I agree with this point.

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: Should we not make a
new negotiation for an agreement in which we would
get a price that approximates a little more closely
to the special preferential price for example, the
&80 that Martinique and Gaudeloupe get per ton com-
pared with our 142 per ton. Should we not aim at that,
rather than tamely following Britain and giving her
cheap sugar that she could not get if she joined the
European Common Market?

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker, I do not
think there is any necessity, at this stage, to worry
about that. We have to know exactly what is the
position. We do not think the time is ripe yet. Until
we know what is the exact position with the European
Economic Community, we will not take further action
in the matter.
TRAVELLING EXPENSES OF CHAIRMAN OF
TOURIST BOARD

Mr. SPEAKER: Question No. 110, page 7 right
hand column. The hon. senior member for St. Thomas.

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, to enquire
of the appropriate Minister: -

1. What is the total cost of travel undertaken
at Government expense by the present Chairman of
the Tourist Board: since 1962 to date?

2. What journeys to Canada were made by the
person concerned between August 1st, 1966 and elec-
tion day, November 3rd 1966, and how long time was
spent on each occasion?

Mr. G. G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker, the replies
are as follows:

1. The total cost of travel undertaken by the
present Chairman of the Tourist Board
since 1962 to 7th November, 1967 is
$15,561.72 from the Tourist Board's funds
and in the interest of the tourist industry.

2. The Chairman made three journeys, two of
ten (10) days each" and one of two (2) days
to Canada during the period 1st August,
1966 and 3rd November, 1966.

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, will the
Minister state what journeys were made at Govern-


ment's expense? We do not want the Tourist Board's
expense. We want the Expo journeys in, too, Mr.
Speaker. Will the Minister say whether he knows the
answer?

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: He is looking for the
information.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker, on June
12, 1966, on behalf of Expo 67 -Barbados, Montreal,
New York, Barbados; August 19 Barbados, Toronto,
Montreal, New York, Barbados; July 3 Barbados,
Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa, Montreal, New York,
Barbados; September 26 Barbados, Montreal,
New York, Barbados; December 7 Barbados,
Montreal, New York, Montreal, Barbados. Those are
the voyages for Expo during 1966, Mr. Speaker.

Sir Grantley ADAMS: Cost?

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: On June 12 $367
(Caribbean currency); on August 9 $367; on July 3
$551.40; September 26 $367; December 7 -
$551.40; December 9 $110.20. That is the Montreal/
Barbados trip.

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS:. Mr. Speaker, that is
the cost of the tickets for travelling. Will the Minister
say how much subsistence he drew on these oc-
casions?

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker, I cannot
say that off hand. If the hon. member would table a
question, I would get the information for him.

Sir Grantley ADAMS: What is the meaning of that?
The hon. member has tabled a question. What is the
total cost of the travelling of this gentleman?

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Heaskedforthetravel-
ling expenses, and I gave him what is here on the
file.

Sir Grantley ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, will the
Minister tell us why it was necessary not to come
back by Air Canada, and why it was necessary to go
to New York?
5.20 p.m.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker, I am not
in a position to say. Ihave not got anything on the file
stating that, and therefore I cannot go guessing at
anything. If I have information, I will give correct
information, and there is nothing on the file stating
why the voyages were from Montreal back through
New York or otherwise.

Sir Grantley ADAMS: I appreciate that answer.
Will the hon. member tell why he did not ask his
Department to answer the questions fully. Any Minis-
ter has got to depend on his Department. He should
say: "This is a question I have to answer; get all the
details for me". Did the hon. member do that?

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Thehon. memberasked
the cost of travel and I have submitted the cost of








1608


-travel. I would have to refer it, when it was for the
Tourist Board, to the Tourist Board for the informa-
tion, and the Development Board for the information,
whether it was for the Development Board,andthe
Ministry for Expo' 1967. That is what Ihave got in the
file. If the hon. member would like more information,
I would be glad if he would table a question, but the
information according to the tabling of the question
would be given to him.

Sir Grantley ADAMS: Will the hon. member an-
swer this question? Does he feel that he knows the
Queen's English as much as any of his colleagues?
He may be too modest to answer that, but what is
meant by the word "total"? If the hon. member who
asked the question merely meant the cost of a ticket,
he would have asked the cost of a ticket. Did the word
"total" not convey anything to the hon. member?

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker, the
question is as follows:-

1. What is the total cost of travel undertaken
at Government expense by the present Chairman of
the Tourist Board since 1962 to date?

2. What journeys to Canada were made by
the person concerned between August 1st, 1966 and
election day, November 3rd 1966, andhowlong a time
was spent on each occasion?

Sir Grantley ADAMS: Did the hon. member not
see that as you ask how long a time was spent, the
questioner was asking how much money you spent
in a week compared with a fortnight or a day? Was
the visit to Canada necessitated being there for any
particular length of time? Does the hon. member not
see that? Does the hon. member not see that any
question which brings in the length of time and uses
the word "total," is getting at what everybody in the
Island is talking about, that is, "Morgan is giving the
D.L.P. money and getting it back on his visits to
Canada?" Did the hon. member not know that?

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker, Icanonly
answer the question as it was asked. I cannot have
any implied meaning in the English language. I have
answered the direct questions according to how they
were asked. As I have already said, if the hon. mem-
ber would like to have further information, he can
table questions and they would be answered.

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, I believe that the Hon.
Minister would be able to help me with this supple-
mentary. When it says: "The total cost of travel
undertaken at the Government expense", does this
include even paying car fares fromthe Airport to the
hotel? Because that is travelling also. From whatwe
have been given, we assume that it is the cost of the
tickets. We want to know if this includes money paid
from the Airport to the hotels and from the hotels to
Expo' 1967 total cost,

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: Is it not a fact that the
Chairman of the Tourist Board has a subsistence


allowance out of which supposedly travelling, such
as taxi fares, are paid, and if so, would the Minister
tell us now what was the subsistence allowance and
what it covered?
Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: I have already told the
hon. member that that is a separate and distinct
question which he is asking. It is a Statutory Board,
and I would have to refer to the Board for the
necessary information. I do not have the files belong-
ing to the Tourist Board, nor those of the Development
Board. What I can tell the hon. member is that the
expenses at Expo' 67 were expenses divided between
the Guyana Government and the Barbados Government,
and I have given the figures for the expenses. It does
not say anything about expenses for travelling. It says:
"expenses incurred by Mr. P..G. Morgan as Com-
missioner General for Expo' 67". It is for travelling,
but these expenses were divided between the Barbados
Government and the Guyana Government for Expo' 67.
The amount given here would be Barbados' share of
the expenses for travelling, and that is the conjunction
with the two Governments at Expo' 67.
Sir Grantley ADAMS: Will the hon. member tell
us how much Barbados paid and how much Guyana
paid? We are only now hearing about the sharing be-
tween the two territories.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: It has been shared
equally between the Barbados Government and the
Guyana Government. The figures which I have called
here would obviously be Barbados' share, and equal
shares would have been contributed by the Guyana
Government.
Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: Will the Minister state
what was the nature of the tourist duration done
between August and November to which he has re-
ferred in his original answerof the two ten-day visits
and the two-day visit? What was the nature of the
tourist promotion done two or three months in Canada
which necessitated two visits often days each and one
visit of two days?
5.30 p.m.
Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: I have already told the
hon. member. I cannot give him any more information
than I have on my file. I will be prepared to answer in
due course any questions thathe passes over. I cannot
say something out of my head. This is a Statutory
Board and I will have to refer to them. If he has any
more questions, submit the questions and I will answer
them.
Sir Grantley ADAMS: Is that the waythat the hon.
member answers questions, or his colleagues? Be-
cause this may be a statutory Board you do not even go
through the file for the things thatyou ought to antici-
pate? Do you know anything about parliamentary Gov-
ernment? A Minister has to investigate everything. It
is his duty not only to take up a file, but to go through
the Civil Servants and anticipate every question that
may be asked.
Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker, it will be
impossible to anticipate all the supplementary ques-
tions that may be asked.
Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: If you are incapable.








1609


Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: The question I am trying
to ask the Minister is this: What is the nature of the
tourist promotion to which he referred in his original
answer? Does he remember saying that three journeys
were made, two of ten days and one of two days for the
purpose of promoting tourism.

I am now asking what am the particular pieces of
tourism promoted between then and election day 1966
that could necessitate two journeys often days and one
of two days. What was being promoted besides the
Democratic Labour Party?

Sir Grantley ADAMS: Can he give us the amount
which the Government spent on Mr. Morgan and the
amount that Mr. Morgan paid into the Democratic
Labour Party funds for the election?

Mr. SPEAKER: That certainly could not arise in
a supplementary question.

Sir Grantley ADAMS: That is so; but there is a
lot of nastiness that must be exposed. That is the rea-
son for our question. We consider that the Government
spent money and did not mind what they spent because
they were getting it back. Ask the electorate of Christ
Church.

Mr. SPEAKER: A question in the House cannot
be directed to the electorate of Christ Church.

Sir Grantley ADAMS: I am asking him to ask the
electorate of Christ Church what Mr. Morgan paid out
to them.

Mr. SPEAKER: Sources of information are for
the Minister to select for himself. QuestionNo. 126.

Mr. CRAIG: No, Sir,

Mr. SPEAKER: I am proceeding to No. 126.

Mr. CRAIG: I was awaiting a reply. (Aside)
Sit down. Oh, keep quiet, boy! Mr. Speaker, I must
say that .1 was awaiting a reply of the Minister to a
question which I had asked by way of a supple-
mentary, and then you went on to Question 126.

Mr. SPEAKER: Yes, I went on, and we are now
at Question 126.

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker -

Mr, SPEAKER: We are at Question 126 which
stands in the name of the hon. and learned member
for St. Thomas, Page 9, left hand column.

Mr. CRAIG: I shall bow to your ruling, but am I
to understand that the Minister is not going to reply
to my question?

Mr. SPEAKER: The Minister does not have to
reply. (Aside: The Speaker is only- skylarking.)

Mr. SPEAKER: I ask the hon. member to let his
asides be audible only to those members immediately


adjacent to him, if, at all those members are in-
terested in hearing him.

FRANKING OF INLAND LETTERS

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, is the
Minister aware -

Mr. SPEAKER: I am sorry that I cannot hear the
hon. and Learned member for St. Thomas.

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS:Mr. Speaker, to enquire
of the appropriate Minister:-

1. Is the Minister aware that there is a great
need for a 10 cent postage stampinBarbadosboth
for the purpose of franking registered Inland letters
and for airmail letters to the Eastern Caribbean?

2. Will the Minister make arrangements for
such a stamp to be issued forthwith?

3. Will the Minister also make arrangements
for this much used value to be included in future
issues of commemorative series of stamps whenever
appropriate?

Mr. Speaker, this question is intended to be
directed to the Minister of Communications and Works
although it is printed "appropriate Minister."

Mr. SPEAKER: I apologise if it is wrongly
printed.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, the replies
are as follows:-

"1. No, Sir. No stamps of any value areused
for franking registered or unregistered
inland letters.

2. No, Sir. An examination of the effects
of devaluation on postage rates is pre-
sently being undertaken, and any decision
on the introduction of a ten cents stamp
will have to await the results of this
examination.

3. The possibility of including a ten cents
stamp in future commemorative issues
will be considered after the results of
the examination referred to in paragraph
2 above become available."

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, will the
Minister give the House an undertaking not to give
frivolous answers in future, especially when he is
too ignorant to understand what is meant by franking?
Franking is a classical word used for over 300 years
for what ever means ofpre-or post payment of
postage. If he does not know that, he should tell his
Permanent Secretary not to be frivolous in dealing
with parliamentary answers.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, what is the
supplementary question?








1610
i ,j, ..... i qi' .


SMr. J.
that 10 i
registered
mails?


M. G. M. ADAMS: Is the Minister aware'
postage stamps are neededfor posting
inland letters and Eastern Caribbean air


Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Before I reply, I have a
dictionary in my hand printed by Miriam Webster,
the 7th New College dictionary by G. Belle & Sons
and C. J. Miriam and Company. It says "frank" -
to mark a piece of mail with an official signature or
sign indicating the right of the sender to free mailing,
to affix to mail the stamp or a marking indicating the
payment of postage, to enable to post or go freely or
easily,
5.40 p.m.

You do not have to use a stamp for franking. The
hon. member is an expert on everything.

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: Do you hear that fool?
Hon. N. W. BOXILL: You do not use a stamp for
franking, you idiot!

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Understandeth what thou
readeth?

Mr. SPEAKER: The two exchanges "fool" and
"idiot", I regard as having cancelled out the other,
but I want a repetition of neither.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr, Speaker, I have been
watching in this House for some time, and, whenever
I raise a point, Your Honour Says that you do not want
any directions from me. According to May's Parlia-
mentary Ruling, you can only'ask two supplementary
questions in the House. I am answeringtwo, and I am
finished with answering supplementary questions; but
in order to deal with the hon. junior member for St.
James' question, as I had promised -

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Can't you read?

Hon. N, W. BOXILL: He ought to be the last
person to come in here to talk about people being
able to read and write. He has done all in his power
to stop people from being able to read and write.
When he held the portfolio for -

Mr. SPEAKER: What question is the hon. mem-
ber for St. Thomas purporting to answer?

Hon. N. W, BOXILL:The one asked by the Leader
of the Opposition. He wants to know if I can under-
stand what I have read. I can understand better than
he, because I am much younger and more agile than
he is.

Mr. J. M, G. M. ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, I much
regret that I have called the junior member for St..
Thomas a fool. It is both unnecessary, redundant,
and, perhaps, ignorant on my part because I do not
think hon. members of the House or the general
public need to hear of that.
Mr. SPEAKER: Is the hon, member making a
personal explanation?


Mr. J, M. G. M. ADAMS: I am apologising to
you, Sir, for the outbreak of disorder which undoubted-
ly characterized my annoyance with the Minister. He
read out a definition for franking, and then he went on
to say that you do not have to put a stamp on mails.

Nevertheless, Mr. Speaker, I expect that the hon.
senior member for St. George and the hon, junior
member for St. Michael will encourage the hon.
junior member for St. Thomas in his misunderstand-
ing. I expect that, and I will give way -- (Asides.)

Hon. N. W. BOXILL rose .,-

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, I am on
my feet.

Hon. N, W. BOXILL: You cannot be on your feet
when it is Question Time. (ASIDES).

SUSPENSION OF SITTING

Mr. SPEAKER: This sitting now stands suspend-
ed, in view of grave disorder, for twenty minutes.
5.50 p.m.

On re-assembling,

Mr.J.M.G.M.ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, asa supple-
mentary question, do I take the Minister's answer
to mean that he has anticipated that the postal rates
will go up in Barbados either in the near, middle or
distant future, and if so, how soon does he expect that
the recommendations of the responsible Advisory
Body will be in his hands?

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, before I
answer the question, I must first make an apology to
the Chair for what took place just now, and I guess
that the Chair will accept the unfortunate episode in
the best light; but as I have said......

Mr. SPEAKER: I accept it in the spirit in which
it is made, which I regard as a gracious spirit.



Hon. N. W. BOXILL: As I said before, we are
running our Parliament on British Parliamentary
democracy, whatever that means, and in the House of
Commons a member puts a question and he is allowed
to ask two supplementary questions. I am quite will
ing to answer any question pertaining to my Ministry,
but I have told hon. members that lam not going to be
bombarded with questions as if it is some inquisition.
You are only allowed to ask two supplementary ques-
tions, and they must pick out which of the two ques-
tions suit the particular thing which they want to get
at best, or they must come in with a fresh question.
I will endeavour to answer the question which the
hon. member has just put, but I am giving the assur-
ance that after I have laid a reply, I am answering
two questions and that is not being impolite, That
happens in the democracy in which we have our
parliament being run. They answer two quest ions and
I will answer two.







1611


Mr. SPEAKER: Just before the hon. member
proceeds, let me say that there is a Standing all-
Party Committee of this House which is revising the
Standing Orders, and amongst other things which we
may consider is whether we should limit the number
of supplementary questions. At present (a) the number
is not limited; (b) a Minister need not answer any
supplementary question; and (c) there is no time limit
for the answering of any questions.


Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, in reply to the
question which has just been asked by the hon. senior
member for St. Thomas, I could not answer that
directly by saying "yes".As Isaid, "the possibility
of including a ten cents stamp in future commemora-
tive issues will be considered after the results of the
examination referred to in paragraph (2) above
become available." We had a gentleman from the
British Postal Service down here examining our
Postal Services to bring them up to standard in our
getting out mail and so on, but I do not see this as
any indication that the Postal rates will be going up
or anything like that. If the trend is that, because of
the cost of living and the devaluation of the pound and
so on, the price of stamps has to group, wecannot
avoid it because you must post mails. My Ministry is
presently concerned with keeping things down to the
minimum as far as postage for the general public is
concerned.

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: Mr.Speaker,whenI
rose, I should also have expressed my apologies to
the House because I had already made peace, so to
speak, with the Minister, and I neglected in the tem-
porary euphoria of the moment, to express my
apologies to the Chair for having contributed to the
disorder. I join with the Minister inmyregretthat
the atmosphere of the House should have been marred
by unseemly conduct.

Mr. SPEAKER: That is also greatly appreciated,
but I rather felt that we had returned so refreshed
and so exuberant that we had not yet got quite into
our normal stride. (Laughter).

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: Can I ask the Minister
if it is not anticipated that the postage rates will be
changed? Why should there be an objection to issuing
ten cents stamps at least in commemorative series?
They are in very great demand.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: The answer to that is that
we do not object to issuing ten cents stamps. As I
said before, we are going into it. What has happened
is that the hon. member is a philatelist. I would say..

Mr. SPEAKER: A philanthropist or a philatelist?

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: A philatelist? He knows
something about stamps, but he also knows this; that
if we were to crowd the market with too many
stamps, we have sometimes found that it has not
taken top well, and, as the hon. member is well aware,
the stamp business is a money-making affair..I
-intend to make as much money as possible out of


stamps for the country, but we do not want to put out
a stamp on the market which will eventually turn out
to be a flop. I do not know if I have any figures which
I can give the hon. member at themoment, butwe
are examining the possibility of bringing out certain
stamps for certain times. We have two issues with
which we shall come out; we have a commemorative
issue and we have a definitive issue. We have to be
more than careful that we do not get one overlapping
the other, because we will have stamps printed, and
I do not want to find myself in the same position as
other Ministers, who held similar portfolios, found
themselves, The only bars I like happen to be shirt
bars; so I have to be more than careful as to what
I do with the finances of the country stampwise; but
wherever practicable and possible I will put out a
stamp to suit the community. We will have to put
out something- which we are sure we will make
money on. We do not want to print stamps just
because somebody feels that we should print stamps.
As soon as we have a look atthesestamps,wewill
most likely bring out a ten-cents stamp because all
the West Indies Islands most likely will come out
with ten-cents stamps.

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS:Will the Minister agree
that a ten-cents stamp is infinitely more useful
than a fifteen cents stamp? There is no postage rate,
to the best of my knowledge, other than the air
letter to England.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, I have broken
my promise. However, I am saying that Iam agreeing
with the hon. member, but it does not necessarily
mean that I am right or that he is right. We can both
be wrong. I do know that the postage on an airmail
form to Canada is fifteen cents and quite a number
of us have relatives in Canada and some try not to
put on a twenty-five cents stamp. They put on a
fifteen-cents stamp. The hon. member does not have
to worry. I do not know if he has had a little wire
about this. I do know how ubiquitous he is. (A MEM-
BER: He has a dictionary and he can look it up.)
The hon. member most likely might have heard that
this matter might be examined, or that it is being
examined at this moment, and therefore he wants to
steal my thunder. I can assure him that he cannot
steal it quite so easily.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Iam not a stamp expert;
such stamps as I have ever collected I have turned
over to the hon. member for St. Thomas years and
years ago. (Mr. SPEAKER: Which hon. member for
St. Thomas?) The senior member for St. Thomas,
I would have turned over to the hon. junior member
for St. Thomas if Ithought itwould add to his educa-
tion. (Laughter). I thank God that he has got sense
enough to laugh at that instead of going off to defend,
I would like to ask the hon. member this. Sometimes
I have made use of fifteen-cents stamps and others
must have done so, and sometimes I have made use
of a twenty-five cents stamp. If you have a fifteen-
cents stamp, what is wrong in having a ten-cents
stamp? Sometimes you have to take three-cents
stamps and even cent stamps and push them all around
the envelope if you have not got the appropriate








1612
I]~~~ i I Illf


stamp at the time. Does the hon. member know that
far from stamps becoming superfluous, people make
stamps? Some years ago, I remember it being brought
to my notice that St.Vincent was being told by the
Colonial Office that they depend on too much of the
revenue from stamps. There is nothing to prevent
us from making aten-cents stampas it is asked for.
Your Honour will pardon me for expanding the
question so much, but if the public say: "We would
like a ten-cents stamp," what principle is involved?
You make it, I suggest to the hon. member that this is
how the Cabinet should look at it. If people say that
they can do with a ten-cents stamp, you make it. You
cannot lose. People all over the world when they hear
that a stamp is issued, they send to the Post Office
for a few thousand of them, ten thousand and soon.
Most stamp collectors are lunatics.

Mr. SPEAKER: Let the hon. member not forget
his question at the end.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Well, I repeat: does the
hon. member not feel that if people ask for this stamp
he should give them?

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: The hon. junior member for
St. Joseph is a bit rhetorical. I have never said that
there will not be a ten-cents stamp. Because the hon.
member says that people are clamouring for a ten-
cents stamp, it does not necessarily mean that we
have got to go into it. We mayhave to examine it; we
just do not do things by guess, After all, this is the
people's finances that we are spending, Nobody prints
stamps for us for nothing. We have to pay the people
in England a lot of money for printing stamps. As I
said before, when the hon. member was not in the
Chamber, I intend to make money out of stamps. I
am not printing stamps just for the beauty of printing
stamps. We have to make money out of printing
stamps. We have two issues of stamps now and we
had to postpone the introduction of them. The hon.
senior member for St. Thomas knows that we do not
bring them at any time because we do not want to
conflict with these things. As far as Iknow, year
has four seasons. We do not bring down a stamp
every season. We bring down a stamp for an average
of about three months sometimes, and when we put a
stamp on the market we want to make money out of
it,
6,20 p.m.

Yes, I know we make money; but we have had
stamps that we did not make money from, The Hon
senior member for St. Thomas can bear that out. We
have to examine these things most thoroughly before
we can bring out stamps. As I have said we have had
stamps that did not make money because they were
not as beautiful to the philatelists as we thought they
would have been.

I have not told the House that there will be de-
finately no 10a stamps. We are examining it,

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: One last question. Is the
Minister aware that there are hundreds of people,not


only in this country, who would like two dollar notes?
If the question was: "Would you print two dollar
notes," would you say that they would not pay? The
same thing applies to 10 stamps,

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: I cannot see how the two
questions can be analogous. Two dollars is money
if it is in Chinese yen. A two dollar bill in now a
rarity and everybody would try to get one to keep as
a souvenir, Philatelists do not keep stamps as
souvenirs. They try to make money out of stamps.

ARRIVAL OF NON-BARBADIANS BY YACHTS

Mr. SPEAKER: Question No. 138 standing in the
name of the hon. junior member for St. Peter.

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the Ap-
propriate Minister:-

1. How many non-Barbadians arrived in this
Island by yacht in each year 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964,
1965, 1966 and 19677

2. How many such persons have remained
and taken up residence in the Island after the de-
parture of the yacht by which they came?

3. How many of those, remaining have since
been granted permanent residence?

4. How many have taken up employment in
this Island?

5. What is the occupation of each such person
who has taken up employment?

6. Are any of the jobs such persons are
engaged in beyond the capacity or ability of Barba-
dians to perform?

7. Were work permits or any form of per-
mission given by the Ministry of Home Affairs to
those who took up employment here?

8. If the answer to No. 6 is in the negative,
will the Minister state the circumstances which did
influence the issuing of a work permit in each case?

9. How many, among those allowed to work
here are employed by Government?

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker, the Re-
ply is as follows: -

"1. It is not possible to supply the informa-
tion in respect of the year 1961 and the first half of
the year 1962, as the records are no longer available
but information in respect of the latter part of 1962
and the other years is as follows:-


Year
1962
1963
1964


Number of Persons
317
261
309








1613


Year
1965
1966
1967


Number of Persons
656
377
538


2. Thirteen, Sir.

3. None, Sir.

4. Three, Sir.

5. (a) Civil Engineer.
(b) Yacht charterer.
(c) Teacher.

6. No, Sir.

7. Yes, Sir.


8. Work permits are always considered on
the basis of need and availability of skills.

9. None, Sir."

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: May I ask whether the
absence of records was due to a fire so that they were
not available? If I may put it more simply, what caused
these records not to be available?

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: I understand that they
usually keep records only for three years back.

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker am I to understand from
the Minister that of the 13 persons remaining as re-
ferred to in No. 2 and three of whom have taken up
employment have been granted permanent residence?

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker, there is
nothing here showing whether they have taken up per -
manent residence. I would figure that if they are
working in the island they would be resident. I do not
know to what extent they will be permanent. Work
permits are usually issued without any period of time.

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: Would the Minister say
what section of the Act gives the Government or the
Police power to issue work permits? What is a work
permit in law?

Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Speaker, in reply to the
question asked, in so far as work permits are con-
cerned in the Immigration Act 1962, there is no pro-
vision for work permits as such in the Immigration
Act. Although it has been said that work permits are
issued, it is a misnomer. There are no work permits
as such in the Immigration Act of 1952, but it still
functions very effectively.
6.30 p.m.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: If there is no law, I
thought the Hon. Minister would have said: "Nobody
knows the answer to that question except God, and
no human agency knows the answer." In'viewof what
the Hon. Minister has said, what is the principle on


whichh they are issued? "We have enough carpenters
in this Island; therefore, we arenotgivingyou a per-
mit to enter and work as a carpenter Is that the po -
licy? "We do nothave enough masons; therefore, we
will give you a work permit to enter and work as a
mason" Is that the policy?

Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Speaker, I am going to be
very serious about this matter. Whenever you have
smoke, there is something with fire behind it. With
regard to the question of work permits, there is no
such thing in law, as the Minister says, and it is true.
Therefore it is the policy of the Government as I un-
derstand it, to issue work permits only to those per-
sons who are doing work that we do not have persons
here capable of doing.

On the question of these work permits, is this a
matter for the Cabinet, or the Minister alone? It is the
policy of the Government, and I think the whole Oppo-
sition will agree with the policy, that if people in Bar -
bados can do a job, then it should not be given to
anybody else. I agree with that. Is this the function
of a Minister -we have been hearing a lot of funny
things or the function of the Cabinet?


Hon. G.G. FERGUSSON: It is the functionof the
Minister,

Mr. St. JOHN: Mr. Speaker, will the Minister
state whether the decision in each individual case is
made by the Minister personally, or by a Civil Servant:
whether the Chief Immigration Officer, or the Per-
manent Secretary?

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: As far as Iknow, by the
Immigration Authorities after reference to the Min-
ister of Home Affairs, and not the Cabinet. Matters
are referred by the Immigration Department to the
Minister of Home Affairs.

Mr. St. JOHN: Mr. Speaker, as I understand it,
the Minister stated that there are no circumstances
under which the Immigration Officer could grant a
permit to work in Barbados without referring each
individual case to the Minister of Home Affairs.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: I do not know. Usually
the cases are referred to the Minister, but I cannot
say whether this has been done on each occasion.

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, will the
Minister state under what section of the law a person
who comes here as a visitor, intransit, or seeking
medical treatment, or for any other purpose as set
out in Section 12, can be prevented from working? What
legal sanction is there to stop a visitor to the Island
from working?

Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Speaker, Ishouldlike to
make my position perfectly clear. It seems to me as
though one can so easily be misunderstood. There are
no work permits as such. That is what I have said,
but it functions under the Immigration Act of 1952.
There is legislation, but no workpermits as such. The








1614


procedure is that an application is made to the Immi-
gration Department and the Police, and it is processed
to the Minister, eventually, with the necessary recom-
mendations, and then the Minister of Home Affairs
goes into the matter and makes a decision. It does
not usually go before the Cabinet, except in a very
extraordinary case. The question asked was......

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: The question asked was:
What is there in the law to stop a visitor from work-
ing? What is in the Immigration Act of 1952, for ex-
ample, to justify the Prime Minister and Minister of
Financial Affairs stopping a masseur from working
in Barbados?

Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Speaker, the question is:
What would prevent a visitor from working during
such time as he was allowed to remain? The Police
would catch up with him eventually.

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: The Minister does not
seem to understand the question. Iam suggesting that
the law does not stop visitors from working. Once you
are lawfully in Barbados, as long as your Entry Visa
has not been specifically conditioned against work,
once you are lawfully here, whether as a guest at the
Hilton, whether you came on a yacht, or on two days
with a West Indies team as a masseur, you cannot
lawfully be stopped from working.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: I would like to ask the
Hon. Minister this: If fellows come up from Trinidad
for races, and they said that they like Barbados and
decided to remain here andwork, would they be com-
mitting an offence? Could any policeman arrest them?

Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Speaker, whenavisitor
enters this country, he is given a specific period, in
the first instance. If he fails to conform with the re-
quirements of the law, or breaks any of the Regula-
tions and conditions under which he has been granted
permission to remain, he is peremptorily ejected.

Mr. HINDS: Can the Minister tell us if the Min-
istry of Home Affairs has been receiving applications
directly from the hands of lawyers onbehalf of per-
sons who are now employed at West Coast Hotels? I
will repeat it; Ido not want the Minister to misunder-
stand me. Has the Minister of Home Affairs been
receiving applications directly from the hands of cer-
tain lawyers on behalf of persons who are now work-
ing at West Coast Hotels in this Island?

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Not to my knowledge.
I cannot say whether it is so or not.

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, will the Minister be
able to say if Mr. Pouchant, the Assistant Manager
of Coral Reef Club, applied for a work permit after
seeing the job advertised in a Barbados Newspaper?
He left Barbados for one week and returned for the
job.


Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker, again, I
am not in the position to answer the question.


Mr. HINDS: Do these hotel workers have to make
their applications to the Immigration Authorities, or
do lawyers make them direct to Minister? That is all
we want to hear.
6.40 p.m.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: As far as I know, it is
made through the Immigration Department. (Mr.
HINDS: It is not so.) There is a regular form when an
application is made to the Immigration Department.
To the best of my knowledge, I have not heard of any
other procedure. It is made through the Immigration
Department and forwarded to the Ministry.

Mr. CRAIG: There is another supplementary. Will
the Minister be able to state if he is aware of the fact
that St. Lucians, Vincentians and Dominicans are
harassed daily by the Immigration Authorities when
they are working here?

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: There are a certain
number of St. Lucians and Vincentians who, under
agreement, come into the Island during the crop
period with an understanding to return home at the
end of the crop. I do not know if it might be a part of
those who have come in legally to work during the
crop and they have not left the Island. I cannot say
directly. It might be some of them or some others
who came in in accordance with the regulations agreed
to by the various Governments for coming into Barba-
dos to work during the crop season on arrangements
being made with certain estates to be responsible ac -
tually for receiving and looking after them while they
are in the Island. There might be others who come in,
not in these groups, and therefore the Police more
than likely, will be catching up with them; but there
are a certain number both from St. Vincent and St.
Lucia who come to the Island yearly to work in the
crop.

IMPORTATION OF RICE FROM ST. VINCENT

Mr. SPEAKER: The next question to which the
reply is ready, is question No. 146, standing in the
name of the hon. senior member for St. Thomas. That
will be found on page twelve of the Order Paper at the
bottom left-hand corner.

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, to enquire
of the Minister of Trade:-

1. Is the Minister aware that the consignee of
a quantity of high quality rice imported from St. Vincent
for the purpose of festivities surrounding a Muslim
wedding due to have taken place on January 25,1968,
has been refused permission by the Ministry of Trade
to import it into Barbados, and that the rice (which
has been already paid for by the consignee) has for
some months been held in an airline warehouse?

2. In the special circumstances of the case,
will the Minister give permission for the importation
of the said rice?

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker, the reply
to the hon. member's question is as follows:








1615


S 1. Government is aware that 720 lbs of Uncle
Ben's Rice, a product of the United States
of America, was imported from St. Vin-
cent into the Island without the necessary
import licence being first obtained. This
was in contravention of the Export and
Imports (Restriction) Act, 1939.

2. No, Sir."

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, as a sup-
plementary, would the Minister agree that the rice was
not imported for commerical purposes, and wouldthe
Minister agree that the rice was imported in igno-
rance of the fact that rice is now a generally pro-
hibited commodity? Let the hon. Minister answer those
two questions.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker, the hon.
senior member for St. Thomas should well knowthat
ignorance of the law is no excuse, and to tell one in
this country that 720 lbs of Uncle Ben's Rice at a cost
landed in Barbados exceeding 53 cents a pound -when
in countries like Guyana with alargerpercentage of
the Muslim population must use this rice as Minister
of Trade, would anybody in Barbados believe that I
would sit down and accept that? I definitely would not.

Mr. J. M. G. ADAMS: I take it that the Minister
is saying that he knew they were doing wrong. Will
the Minister accept that this particular case was the
first time that I was aware of this? I am a lawyer and
I read every piece of legislation and of subsidiary
legislation; perhaps I am even more familiar with
both the Act and with the Regulations which he has
sited than he is. Will he accept that this was the
first time that I knew that Uncle Ben's rice was now
the subject of a stop Order? It has not been the sub-
ject of a stop Order for a very long time, and in view
of the special, compassionate circumstances that
their were a thousand guests who wanted a slightly
better quality rice, Uncle' Ben's rice, and it has
already been paid for and was being paid for in the
Airlines warehouse What I am suggesting to the
Minister is that, as a compassionate gesture, not as
a gesture that it is right to defy the laws of Barbados,
the rice should be allowed to come into Barbados.
The man actually paid for it for his wedding.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker, I have
already told the hon. member that as Minister of
Trade, I say "No," and I mean "No. I am not
allowing hotels to import Uncle Ben's rice in Barba-
dos. We have a Rice Agreement with Guyana and I
stick very closely to my agreements. I am satisfied
that they are producing a quality rice today to c-oip
with any rice which is imported from any place, and
in accordance with my agreement, I refuse to accept
any person bringing in any other kind because it is a
violation.


Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: May I ask the Hon.
Minister whether the agreement with Guyana is for
the purpose of maintaining Guyana's trade with Bar-
bados? If I were coming into this Island and I had a


gift of ten pounds of rice, let us say, would I be
stopped from bringing it in?


Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker, as Min-
ister of Trade I would not have any objection to a
gift or something like that coming in, of ten pounds
of rice, but it is imported from a hard currency area
just around the same time as devaluation, when a lot
of merchants in Barbados have been making
approaches to the Ministry for the purpose of importing
Uncle Ben's rice in the Island, and I have been re-
fusing them. The agent for Uncle Ben's rice in this
area actually sat in my Ministry and told me that he
would get it in otherwise. In other words, if St. Vincent
which is a country which is under the Agreement,
allows Uncle Ben's rice to come in, and they are
going to use St. Vincent to tranship rice in here, they
are not going to do it with me as Minister of Trade.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: I will phrase my
question differently. If the Ministry of Trade is
convincedthat rice is being imported, not for com-
mercial purposes, if people choose to have a ton of
rice to throw on wedding guests, would that be
stopped? (ASIDES). The whole object of the Agreement
with Guyana is for commercial purposes.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: All of these Agree-
ments would have to be for commercial purposes,
and if in the same Agreement for commercial pur-
poses, Guyana is supplying us with rice and this is
under consideration at nearly every annual meeting
as to the price, one of the conditions in the trade
was that they would produce rice suitable and com-
parable with any from the United States of America.
As to that particular rice, I checked on it, and the
price ran into about 54 cents a pound. It is from a
hard currency area and it is in violation of the
Agreement which I have got with Guyana. I am not
satisfied that 720 Ibs of rice even for a wedding -
as a matter of fact I would say that the first thing
that I asked the owner of the rice was whatwas he
doing in Barbados, and his profession, and he told
me that he was a Commission Agent.

Mr. J. M. G. ADAMS: The Minister has quoted
this price of 54 cents a pound. Would the Minister
agree that the price worked out at 54 cents a pound
because the people went to the trouble of having the
rice flown here? It was flown here specially to be
used at the wedding.
6.50 p.m.
HON. G. G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker, the own-
ers of the rice must have made approaches here in
Barbados first of all to supermarkets and other
places in the island and must have been told that
Uncle Ben rice is not allowed in the island. I refused
to let them bring it into the island. I am not giving
it to them. It was just using what I would call a
"long head" over us.
MR. CRAIG: This is a supplementary. Would
the Hon. Minister put a control on the importation of
American sugar such as is imported by the Hilton
Hotel from Puerto Rico due to the fact that Barba-
dos is a sugar producing place?








1616


HON. G.G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker, we have
no sugar refineries in Barbados. We have nothing.
to compete with the refined sugar imported into this
country for the tourist industry that is an essential
revenue earner in this country, and as long as it is
something for the country to benefit from, I will be
prepared to issue licences for it.

If we were producing sugar of that quality, or it
was available from any British source or in the
CARIFTA area, I would stop that from coming in too.

MR. SPEAKER: The Minister answered before I
had time to tell him that I didn't regard that question
as a supplementary. This is apropos of rice. If
you are going to bring in sugar, why not bring in
salt and peppers? This has to do with rice.

MR. J. M. G. ADAMS: Does the Minister think
that Tate & Lyle sugar made from sugar produced
in the West Indies is of a worse quality than Puerto
Rican sugar?

MR. SPEAKER: I do not regard that as supple-
mentary not a supplementary on rice.

MR. J. M. G. ADAMS: Very well, Mr. Speaker.
The Minister said that the rice compares in quality
with Guyana rice. Why are the super markets and
wholesalers crying out to be allowed to import rice
if Guyana rice is just as good? Will the Minister say
if it is a fact that a license to import Uncle Ben rice
was given at the start when the order came into
.frce?

HON. G. G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker, attended
a conference in December 1966 in Guyana and they
were prepared to carry out experiments to produce
rice comparable to Uncle Ben rice. Under that
agreement I guaranteed that if they produced a
quality of rice comparable with or equivalent to
Uncle Ben's rice, I would grant no licence for the
importation of Uncle Ben's rice. That was one of
the conditions. We were in the position of getting
a far better price, and in consideration of that we
would give them all the importation of rice into
Barbados, provided that could cope with the quality
required.

During that period a few hotels were complaining
about it and they were allowed to bring in a little other
rice; but after the last Rice Conference no licenses at
all have been given, not even to hotels. Most people
were satisfied that they were getting good enough re -
sults from Guyana rice. No licences at all have been
granted for the importation of U. S. rice Uncle Ben
or any other rices.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Has the Minister ever
enquired of the learned Attorney General how far he
can go in making Agreements in restraint of trade?
How far legally canhe go? I mean that as a serious
question. A lot of illegal things are happening for the
sake of peace. The lawyers on this side have been
keeping quiet so far, but they will not always keep
quiet. Iam trying to get an answer from the Minister.


Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker, I do not
like Agreements. Anything that involves any legal
matters is referred to the Crown Law Officers and the
Attorney General. I am not a lawyer. Therefore any-
thing like an Agreement is vetted by them and not by
me.


Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Therefore it comes to
this: the Minister has done his part and passed on the
Agreement to the Attorney General. Has he been told
by the Attorney General that there are certain Agree-
ments in restraint of trade which you cannot make?
Has he ever been told that?


Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: I agree with that -
Agreements in respect of GATT, for example.

Mr. SPEAKER: I must say thatthe Hon, Minister
is so quick at replies that he does not wait for me to
say if I deem a question not to be supplementary. Any-
how the Minister has answered, Question No. 141
standing in the name of the hon. andlearned member
for St. Thomas, Page 11, left hand column.

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, to enquire
of the Minister of Trade:

Now that Barbados is Independent, does the Min-
ister consider that there is any justification in con-
tinuing to forbid the importation of any goods from the
list of countries set out in the first Schedule to the
Exports and Imports (Open Import Licences) Order,
1962?

If the Minister considers that such a restriction
still to be necessary, will he state what is the justi-
fication for including Japan in a list of Communist
Countries and excluding Cuba, Yugoslavia and North
Vietnam?

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker, the reply
is as follows:-

1. There has never been any prohibition
against the importation of goods from the
countries set out in the First Schedule to
the Exports and Imports (Open Import Li-
cence) Order, 1962. Goods from these
countries have been imported on special
licence. The only countries from which
the importation of goods is prohibited are
Rhodesia and South Africa.

2. Does not arise.

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: That will not do. Will
the Minister agree that there is a prohibition of the
importation of goods without licences? If he wants the
words "without licences" I will ask him a supplemen-
tary on that. There are places from which you cannot
import goods places like Albania, Hungary, Poland,
Rumania and the U.S.S.R. Japan is on this list. What
justification is there for putting Japan on this list,
which is a standard list circulated to Colonial terri-











stories forbidding imports from Communist countries,
What is the basis of including Japan in the Commun-
ist stop list?

You can only import goods from those Communist
countries with the Minister's licence. I appeal to the
Minister to reconsider his answer that Paragraph 2
does not arise.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker, the hon.
member wants to know why Japan is under licence.
If we are in a developing area, and if the prices from
Japan or any other country were such as to stop de-
velopment within this country, the Government would
have every right to put them under control, to put re -
striction on them.

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: There are hundreds of
countries in Japan's position. Will the Minister agree
that imports into Barbados are controlled in two ways?
Firstly, you control the import by reference to its
nature. For example, you cannot import rice from
anywhere except Guyana without a licence. Secondly
you control the Import according to its country of
origin. This is a Communist stop list which also in-
cludes Japan plus Rhodesia and South Africa.

You control imports in two ways. One is economic
and the second is political. Will the Minister agree that
the answer that he has just given is appropriate to the
economic control relating to certain types of goods? If
he agreed with this, will he accept that this question
is about political control?
7.00 p.m.

Why is Japan on the Communist stop-list?
It is an insult to the Japanese Ambassador; it is an in-
sult to Japan with whom we have just opened diplomatic
relations. Will he agree that the First Schedule to the
Export and Imports (General Open Import Licence)
Order is a political stop-list instituted by the Colonial
Office before we were Independent?

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker, all exports
from Communist countries are controlled by State
trade organizations, and the prices of the exports are
often determined by considerations other than pro-
duction cost, with the result that goods are dumped on
the imported market at cheap prices aimed at dis -
rupting the economics of non-Communist countries.

After all competitive goods have been ousted, the
prices are increased substantially thereby causing an
abrupt reduction in essential imports from a wide
range of non-essential imports which could well weak-
en a country's position, especially underdeveloped
countries, to resist other pressures from the Com-
munist bloc particularly if at the same time it has
become dependent on the price of the market for its
exports.

This, fortunately, was not the case with Barbados.
As far as Japan is concerned, liberalisation of trade
with Japan would encourage greater imports from that
country, especially in footwear and cotton piece goods.
The restricting of trade from Japan is considered


1617


necessary to protect the local footwearandcottonin-
dustries, and to prevent any adverse effects on our
Foreign Exchange resources because of the lack of
reciprocal trade from certain countries.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, I would
like to ask the Hon. Minister: How does the use of a
Communist stop-list square with the answer given
earlier by the Leader of the House that the position
of this country since Independence is to be independent
of either the East or the West? How can you have a
Communist stop-list when you are not taking sides?

Mr. J. M. G. M. ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, after
hearing the Hon. Minister read that out, my respect
for Mr. McConney goes down a bit. I certainly
appreciate the first part of his answer. That has
been a political argument which has been circulated
to innumerable Permanent Secretaries by the Colon-
ial Office in days to prevent imports from Communist
Countries.

The second part of his answer relating to Japan
is not in harmony with the first. Japan has no State
trading organisation. Will the Minister agree with
that? Cotton piece goods can be restricted by licence
directed to cotton piece goods. The position as it is
at present, Mr. Speaker, is that you cannot import
cotton piece goods from Cuba anyhow, because Cuba
is subject to quantitive restrictions in its own right.
The situation now is that you can import sugar from
Cuba, if you want to. Cuba is not on the: Communist
stop-list. Cuba has the State trading organisation,
and you can import freely from Cuba. But why
should Japan be on this stop-list? China, Mr. Speaker,
is not on the stop-list. Does the Hon. Minister
know that?

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: While the hon. senior
member for St. Thomas approached Japan as a
non-Communist country, we included it in this. China
is included, and this obviously must have been
overlooked by us. Japan is included in it by error.
You have Albania, Bulgaria, China, Czechoslovakia,
Eastern Germany, Hungary, Japan, North Korea,
Poland, The Union of Soviet Socialist Republic.
Japan should not have been included.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: It is one of those
simple oversights; it is a hangover from the Colonial
days, and we have not yet got aroundto eliminating
it. That is the simple position.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: It is nonsensical, and we
shall have to change it.

CREATION OF SILENT ZONE NEAR QUEEN
ELIZABETH HOSPITAL


Mr. SPEAKER: Question No. 137 standing in the
name of the hon. junior member for St. George. It is
on page 10, left hand column.

Mr. HOPPIN: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the
Appropriate Minister:-








1618
' i ,- "


!. Is the Minister aware of the inconvenience
and difficulty caused to recuperating patients and to
Nurses at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital (especially
when the said nurses are receiving telephone calls
in connection with their duties) due to the noise of
vehicular traffic on the highways adjacent to this
institution?

2. Will the Minister take steps to have the
portion of the highway known as Martindale's Road
from the entrance of St. Michael's Girl School to the
junction of River Road and Wellington Street declared
a Silent Zone?

Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Speaker,the replies are
as follows:

1. Yes, Sir.

2. The Ministry has under consideration the
designation and marking of appropriate
area in the vicinity of the Queen Elizabeth
Hospital as "Hospital" or "Silent" Zones.
Legislation has already been drafted.

Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Speaker, arisingoutof that,
until such legislation is drafted and passed, will the
Minister agree that special constables should be
posted within the area? There is a lot in what the hon.
member has said. I have received those complaints,
too. Even diagnosing cases in the Casualty Depart-
ment is difficult for doctors.
7.10 p.m.
I asked if the Minister would appreciate the
fact that legislation is being drafted between now
and Christmas. (ASIDES). It is a teaching hospital
and the doctors complain that you cannot diagnose
the case of an accident within the Casualty.

Mr. SPEAKER: I did not catch the question.

Mr. MOTTLEY: The Minister caught it, Sir.

Mr. SPEAKER: That is not enough because I
cannot rule whether it is in order or not,

Mr. MOTTLEY: I know that you know it is in
order. As long as that Minister stands on his feet
it is in order, otherwise he would call me to order.

Mr. SPEAKER: I have no doubt that he was
appealing to the Chair.

Mr. MOTTLEY: The question is a very simple
one. The Minister says that legislation is being
drafted to the effect. I know that legislation is
being drafted for the salaries of the Clergymen
for ten years.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I think I did say that leg-
islation has already been drafted. The hon. mem-
ber's point is well taken and we realise the nec-
essity for having that area made a Silent Zone.
I think it is regarded as a silent zone by a lot of
people already, but we are bringing down legisla-
tion to ensure that it is enforced and regarded as a


silent zone. Until such time that the necessary
suggestion will be adopted, I will recommend that
to the Minister of Communications & Works.

COMPOUNDING OF PRESCRIPTIONS AT QUEEN
ELIZABETH HOSPITAL

Mr. SPEAKER: The next question to which the
reply has been laid is question No.134, standing
in the name of the hon. senior member for St.
James, to be found on page 9, in the right hand
column.

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, I heard that called
long ago.

Mr. SPEAKER: Therefore, the hon. member
should be ready now.

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the
Appropriate Minister:

1. Is the Minister aware that members of the
general public have to wait for long hours
sometimes more than a day before
prescriptions are compounded for them at
the Queen Elizabeth Hospital?

2. Will the Minister agree that the circum-
stance above referred to is due to the
shortage of dispensing staff?

3. Will the Minister look into this matter and
have this state of affairs remedied as soon
as possible?

Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Speaker, the reply to the
hon. member's question is as follows:

1. Yes, Sir. Only in very rare instances, how-
ever, such as the non-availability of spe-
cific drugs, are patients unable to obtain
medicines in one day.

2. Yes, Sir. The demand for dispensingser-
vices has increased considerably both in
the number of prescriptions and in the
complexity thereof.

3. My Ministry is at present reviewing the
organisation and methods of the various
departments of the Hospital with a view
to coping efficiently with the demands
which are made on their services. Plans
are presently being formulated for the
development of the Out- patient's Clinics
and Dispensaries in the rural areas, which
are designed to relieve the pressure on
similar services at the Queen Elizabeth
Hospital".
Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, with regard to the Min-
ister's reference to the non-availabilityof specific
drugs, is that term to be taken to mean cheap drugs?

Hon. C. E. TALMA: It does not necessarily
carry that inference. There are doctors and doctors







1619


each having his own pet theories, and you find them
prescribing various drugs which serves a similar
purpose. There are some doctors who will order a
specific drug 'whereas another one which is avail-
able can serve the same purpose, Each doctor has
his own pet theory, and that will build up the cost
of running that Department.



SIR GRANTLEY ADAMS: Has the Minister or the
Department got the doctors in Cabinet and after
hearing their views, decide on what drugs they should
get in knowing that "A" wtllwant "B's" drugs and
"B" will want "C's" drugs and so on? The way in
which the hon. member has put it, it is as if vaguely
a doctor might come along and say "I do not want
this, I want that." Can't they get all the doctors to-
gether and let them say? One likes Aspirin, some-
body else likes Dispirin and so on- and then we will
agree as to how muchAspirinandhowmuch Dispirin
to have?
Mr. HINDS: Will the Minister deny that a circular
has gone out from his-Ministry directing the doctors
against prescribing certain drugs for patients be-
cause of the high cost of those drugs?

Hon. C E. TALMA: Mr. Speaker, I am not
aware, of that.

Mr. MOTTLEY: I do not think that the Minister
would be aware of that. Is the Minister aware that
there is a pharmaceutical book used at the Hospital
from which doctors are asked to use drugs as closely
as possible? What I want to get straight is this;
human beings differ in their make-up and the like.
With the high percentage of hypertension, blood
pressure and so on, a potency of five percent
milligrammes out might be very much greater than
the five percent otherwise, and one doctor prefers
to use that. The Hon. Leader of the Opposition knows
that I have always fought that question, and the Min-
ister himself, I believe, helped me to fight that ques -
tion in here at one time. I do not believe in pinning
down a doctor to using a particular drug house if he
feels that certain drugs react better or that people
react better to certain drugs. Is it not a fact that this
book is being used at the Hospital and that the
doctors are told to use a particular drug? I can call
the names of a tremendous lot of them. I am not
surprised that they want it because they tried to
shut down the whole of the Bridgetown City Council
from giving drugs there, and therefore they have
three thousand people more. Nothing is being done
and three thousand more have to go up there. That
is the whole trouble.
7.20 p.m.

Mr. SPEAKER: Question No. 133 standing in the
name of the hon. senior member for St. James Page
9 right hand column.

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the Ap-
propriate Minister:-

Is the Minister aware that there is growing
dissatisfacMoon among the staff at the dispensary at


the Queen Elizabeth Hospital as to (a) their conditions
of employment; (b) their salaries; and (c) the short-
age of dispensing staff?


2. Will the Minister investigate these cir-
cumstances and take such steps as are necessary to
alleviate their grievances?

Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Speaker, the reply is
as follows:-

"1. No, Sir. Three members of the dispen-
sary staff last year requested salary
adjustments to give recognition to pre-
vious service with qualifications.

2. The staff structure and salaries of the
dispensing services will be examined in
the context of a comprehensive review of
technical services."

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, this is a supplement-
ary. Is the Minister aware then that Orderlies at the
Hospital assist dispensers in the compounding of
drugs?

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I would hardly expect an
Orderly to assist a dispenser. The Director has re-
ported that there is no evidence of dissatisfaction
among the dispensing staff except as in regard to
salaries. The junior staff are usually concerned with
the failure of their requests for incremental credit
for years of qualified service. This is aggravated
because incremental credit has been given to dis-
pensers working a non-pensionable basis.

In so far as shortage of staff is concerned, the
comment of the Director is that the dispensing staff,
as well as most of the Hospital staff, are aware that
the Ministry is investigating the numbers and cate-
gories of staff of various sections of the hospital.

Mr. CRAIG: Perhaps I can help the Minister in
this. Is the Minister aware that when they are about
to revise the salaries of the dispensers, they have
been telephoning drug houses in Bridgetown asking
what are the salaries of the druggists in the City
drug stores and basing their salaries on those of
druggists in the City without taking into account the
fact that many druggists in the City are people who
are not qualified, but people who are drug sellers.
Therefore dissension is coming into the Hospital
because of the low salaries paid. Can the Minister
say anything on that?
Hon. C. E. TALMA: The Minister, unlike the hon.
member who has just sat down, has no control as far
as the fixing of salaries is concerned. I will have it
investigated and let him know what the procedure is.
I definitely do not agree with fixing salaries of
qualified dispensers on the basis of those who are
not qualified. I will look into the matter and let him
know as soon as possible.
Mr. SPEAKER: Question No. 151,standing in the
name of the hon. junior member for St. Peter, Page
11 right hand column.








1620


STANDPIPE AT ROCK DUNDO

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the
appropriate Minister:-

1. Will Government seek to have installed a
Standpipe at First Gap, Rock Dundo, St. Peter for use
by residents in the area?

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, the reply is as
follows: -

There is at present a standpipe in First Gap
near its junction with Rock Dundo Road. Considera-
tion will however be given to the installation of an
additional standpipe at the other end of First Gap
when the Additional Mains and Standposts Programme
for 1968-69 is being prepared.

Mr. HINDS: I thank the Hon. Minister, but it
seems that we are at variance about this gap.

Mr. SPEAKER: Will he say that "the gapI mean
is so-and-so?"

Mr. HINDS: Is the Minister aware that I meant
the gap next to Mr. Bovell's garage, which is the
first gap after you pass Highway 27

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Apparently the syntax of
the question got lost some where between "First
Gap" and the first gap. Which gap? If the hon. mem-
ber for St. Peter will tell me exactly where the gap
is before I sit down I would like to impress on the
hon. member and on all members of this Chamber -
because I was castigated about some person wasting
water in St. Peter that there is a dire water short-
age in the entire world.

It is not in Barbados alone; it is even in Guyana
with all its rivers. I am asking all the representa-
tives to ask all the people not to waste water not
because it belongs to the Democratic Labour Party;
it belongs to all of us.
7.30 p.m.

PUBLIC CONVENIENCE AT PALMETTO SQUARE

Mr. SPEAKER:This will be the last question
before the Sitting is suspended for other reasons.
Question No. 155 standing in the name of the hon.
senior member for St. James, page 13, right hand
column.

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the
appropriate Minister:-

1. Is Government aware that the public
convenience adjacent to the Trafalgar Hotel in
Palmetto Square is in a most insanitary state?

2. Will Government take steps to remedy
this state of affairs immediately?

Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Speaker, the replies are
as follows:


"1. No, Sir.

2. Does not arise."

SUSPENSION OF SITTING

Hon, J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move
that this sitting be now suspended for three quarters
of an hour.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.


The question was put and resolved in the affirmative with-
out division.


7.35 p.m.

On resumption--

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker, will you
kindly ask that the bell be rung, the time being 8.15
p.m.

Mr. SPEAKER: I certainly shall; let the bell be
rung.



Mr. SPEAKER: Before the suspension of the sit-
ting, questions were being dealt with. All of the ques-
tions have been dealt with to which answers have been
laid and in respect of which hon. members who in-
stituted the queries happened to be in their places.

The questions asked by the hon. senior member
for St. Joseph and the hon. junior member for
St. James, who were unavoidably out of their places
at the time, will be held over until the next meeting
of this House.

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr, Speaker, I beg to move
that Government Business be now proceeded with.

Hon, C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.
The question was put and resolved in the affirmative with-
out division,
APPROVAL OF THE CIVIL ESTABLISHMENT
(GENERAL) (AMENDMENT) (NO. 2)
ORDER, 1968

Mr. SPEAKER: The first item under Government
Business is in thename of the Hon. Leader of the
House, and it is to move the passing of a Resolution
to approve the Civil Establishment (General) (Amend-
ment) (No. 2) Order, 1968.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, this Resolution
has to do with the provision made for filling the post
of the Aide-de-Camp to the Governor-General. There
is an assigned scale, of course, already existing for
this post and it is $3,600 to $3,960 per annum. Of
course, the holder of the post is normally expected








1621


-to live in Government House and to enjoy full board
and lodging.

It sometimes, happens, however, that recruit-
ment is made of a person otherwise suitable but who,
for domestic reasons, cannot live in obviously if he
is a family man he would not be expected to live in
and, therefore, other provision has to be made to
accommodate this type of person. It is felt that if a
person, being a family man, cannot be expected to
live in and therefore enjoy board and lodging in ad-
dition to his salary, he should not be in aworse off
financial position than any officer who would live in.

It is proposed to provide for the payment of a
duty allowance which is intended to compensate for
the loss of benefits accruing from living in Govern-
ment House. This compensate allowance is valued at
$150 a month, and it is proposed that this should be
the allowance which should attach to this post in ad-
dition to the salary. I begto move that this Resolution
do now pass.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.





Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, lamnowasking
leave to proceed with the Resolution of which notice
was given today and copies of which were previously
circulated to members.

Mr. SPEAKER: The Hon. Leader of the House is
asking leave to proceed with a Resolution of which
copies were instructed to be circulated yesterday
afternoon. Personally, I did not have the privilege of
receiving such a copy, but if other hon. members
received their copies --

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Does it matter if this
is not got through by the end of April? Some hon.
members on this side are complaining that they
received this Resolution late.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I have been
told that arrangements have been made to have a
meeting of the Other Place on Thursday which, of
course, will be after the 30th April, because to-
morrow is a Bank Holiday.

'Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. member has asked for
leave to proceed with it now and, unless there is any
objection, leave will be granted. There being no
objection, leave is granted.
8.20 pim

ACTING CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move
that the hon. junior member for St. George be ap-
pointed to act as Chairman of Committees for the
remainder of this sitting.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.


Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: Mr. Speaker, as an
amendment, I beg to move that the hon. junior mem-
ber for St. Andrew be"appointed to act as Chairman
of Committees for the remainder of this sitting. He
will add dignity to the Chair.

Mr. CRAIG: I beg to second that. Iam sure that,
on this occasion, the hon. member would not have
forgotten his glasses at home.

Mr. SPEAKER: Really, that is unfair to
Mr. Clerk who alleges that he could not find his
glasses today and we were without his services.


The question that the hon. junior member for St.
Andrew be appointed to act as Chairman of Commit-
tees for the remainder of today's sitting was put and
resolved in the negative, the House dividing as follows:-


Ayes: Messrs HINDS, CRAIG, CORBIN and Sir
GRANTLEY ADAMS 4.

Noes: Hon'bles J. C. TUDOR, C. E. TALMA,
G. G. FERGUSSON, N. W. BOXILL, Messrs LOWE,
WEEKS and HOPPIN 7.


Mr. SPEAKER: It has been reported to me that
four hon. members voted "Aye", and seven hon.
members voted "No", (ASIDES). That is the report
to me from the Clerk at the Table who has actually
arrived. The Clerk has informed me that the hon.
junior member for St. Andrew voted "Aye". I de-
clare that the "Noes" have it.


The question that the hon. junior member for St.
George be appointed to act as Chairman of Commit-
tees for the remainder of today's sitting, was put and
resolved in the affirmative, the House dividing as follows:-




Ayes: Hon'bles J. C. TUDOR. C. E. TALMA,
G. G. FERGUSSON, N. W. BOXILL; Messrs LOWE
CORBIN, WEEKS and HOPPIN 8.

Noes: Messrs HINDS; CRAIG and Sir GRANTLEY
ADAMS 3.



Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move
that Your Honour do now leave the Chair and the House
go into Committee of Supply, and that it be an instruc-
tion of the House while in Committee of Supply to deal
with the Resolution for $84,229 of which notice was
given earlier today.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.


The question was put and resolved in the affirma-
tive without division.
Mr. SPEAKER left the Chair and the House went into
Committee of Supply, Mr. HOPPIN in the Chair.







1622
r '


SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATE 1968-69 No. 1

PERSONAL EMOLUMENTS FOR CLERGYMEN


A Resolution for the sum of $84,299 was called.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Chairman, when the
Estimates came before the House in Committee of
Supply last month, in response to aquestionputto
me, I think by the hon. senior member for the City,
I pointed out that the provision which appears in the
first column of Head 39 as Statutory Expenditure of
$248,000 represented the sum which it is proposed
that the Anglican Church should be given in the first
year of settlement by way of a block grant.
8.30 p.m.

It did not, however, appear to hon. members
myself included, then, that put in the Estimates in
this form it would not have guaranteed the stipends
of the clergymen, in as much as the statutory pro-
vision under which this sum would have to be dis-
bursed had not yet been established.

In other words, the enabling Bill separating the
Church from the State which would itself include the
financial provisions had not yet been brought before
the Legislature. However, it would appear that when
the Estimates were being prepared, the Ministry of
Education did genuinely hope that by the time the
Estimates got through the House the enabling legis-
lation would have been passed providing for the
settlement of which the financial provisions would,
of course, have been a part.

This hope has not materialised and accordingly
the provision of $248,000 which the House has al-
ready made cannot be spent although it has been
already voted because provision under which it would
be expendable has not yet been made.

Therefore, in order that the Clergy I should
say at this point that an agreement has been sub-
stantially reached, on the approach to the issues of
the settlement, and the delay of the legislation is due
to the fact that there were one or two points of detail
which my colleagues, the Minister of Education and
the Attorney General, did not see. These points are
still being clarified between the two sides, but the
broad, general agreement has been reached and
therefore in the interim period between the begin-
ning of the financial year and whenever the settle-
ment is made, -effective provision has got to be made
for the emoluments of the Clergy to be paid as the
current law now requires.

As hon. members will realise, up to this present
moment and this will be so until the settlement is
complete and the appropriate legislation enacted -
the Clergy are on the Civil Establishment under the
terms of the Anglican Church Act or the Partial
Suspension Act.

Therefore, the $49,000 which represents the
emoluments of those Clergymen who did not come
under Partial Suspension is already provided for by


law; so what we are asked to provide is a sum of
$84,000 which represents part of the emoluments of
the Bishop, part of the emoluments of the Rector of
St. Michael, part of the emoluments of other Reckors
and part of the emoluments of Vicars.


This sum of $84,229 together with the 1um of
$49,320 would of course represent the total amount
of $133,000 which is the sum required to meet the
emoluments both of those appointed before Partial
Suspension and those appointed after.

For this reason we are asking for the supple-
mentary provision of $84,229. Now, as I said just
now, or I should have said it, it is proposed |that the
settlement should take effect as from the lst April
1969. What is proposed is that in some time within
this financial year, legislation is to be broughtto the
House for the House's approval.

However, Sir, until that time comes, I think that
I should give the House some idea of the broad gen-
eral agreement which has been reached between the
Government and the Anglican Synod. They are that
the Anglican Church Act of 1911 should be repealed
and replaced with an enabling Act embodying the
settlement, and that over a number of years begin-
ning with whenever the settlement comes into effect
there should be a certain quantum of financial dis-
bursements made to the Church beginning in the first
place with $248,000 tapering down to the sum of
$35,000 and after the tenth year the Government should
pay to the Anglican Synod a subsidy which should
compare with the total amount paid to the other de-
nominations in the same proportion as the member-
ship of the Anglican Church compares with the total
membership of those other denominations, providing
that such sum is not less than $10,000 per annum;
that the liabilities of the Government should be hon-
oured in the case of persons to whom the Anglican
Church (Partial Suspension) Act of 1965 does not
apply and that provision will be made for clergymen
still serving under the Partial Suspension Act at the
date of the repeal of the Act by the payment of one
month's salary at the present rate in respect of each
completed year of service provided that service of
six months or more was completed year before the
1st April, 1969. The 1st April, 1969, will be re-
garded for the purpose of the computation as one
year's service.

This means, in effect that all the people appoin-
ted since the Partial Suspension will receive their
gratuities computed on a certain basis. The next is
that pensions along with compensation for the payment
of fees should be paid immediately on disestablish-
ment. The next is that the contributions of the clergy
to the Widows and Children's Pensions Schemes
should be treated in the same way as the contribu-
tions of Civil Servants who leave the Service.

The next is that service in Church and State
should not be reciprocal. One point I should add is
that on the repeal of the Anglican Church Act no cler-
gyman would qualify for the payment from the Trea-







1623


sury of leave passages to which he would not have
been entitled if the Act had not been repealed unless
such leave had been taken before the date of the re-
peal.

The next is that the franking privileges at pre-
sent enjoyed by the Church should cease on the repeal
of the Act, that Bishop's Court should be revested in
the Church which should henceforth be responsible
for its maintenance and upkeep.
8.40 p.m.

Next, that the present understanding between
Church and State regarding school buildings should
continue. That understanding, briefly, is that in
respect of their schools which we are occupying,
whenever we are giving them up, we give an under-
standing to return them to the Church in good repair.
That has been done, as far as .I remember, in the
case of Holy Innocents' Infant School and one or two
other schools. (Asides.) We will havetobuildanew
school at St. Christopher; so we will have to give the
Chapel to them in good order. (Asides.)

This is the understanding, anyhow. Also that the
State should not concern itself in the appointment of
Bishops, and that the Church should not retain a
special association with the State, and that all legis-
lation making mandatory provision for the appointment
of Chaplains from the Anglican Church to Gov-
ernment institutions should be repealed. This, gener-
ally speaking, is what they have accepted.

There are, however, two or three points which
both the Minister of Education and the Attorney-
General felt, and I dare say the Bishop himself also
felt, needed further clarification. I will mention one
that springs to my mind immediately. This point
dealt with the extent to which the Clergy, after dis-
establishment, may be called upon and may be re-
quired to perform certain services to the population
some of whom may not be Anglicans. Let me put it
this way. Questions as to whether anybody may still
then be buried within the precincts of a Church's
grave-yard; whether certain ceremonies customarily
performed for nothing, should we say, should be
continued and so on. These are some of the points
that will have to be clarified. Not that there is any
dispute about them, but it is as well beforeyouem-
bark on legislation which is meant to have con-
siderable finality that nothing should be left to chance,
or to individual interpretation.

I want to emphasise that the largest part of the
settlement has already been arrived at. The Synod
has informed the Government that the provisions are
generally acceptable. The Attorney-General has gone
a considerable distance in drafting the required
legislation; this Draft Bill has been before the Church
Authorities and, as I have said, except for one or
two points, one of which I have mentioned, which are
now being clarified, it is acceptable to the Church
Authorities and to the Government.

I would expect that in another two or three
weeks, perhaps, we may be able to introduce legis-


nation and to pass the' Bill in due course. The Cabinet
has already, of course, decided that, for the sake
of tidiness, since this financial year has already
started, the settlement should come into force on the
1st April, 1969, so that there will be ample oppor-
tunity between now and the 31st March to tie up any
loose strings. I beg to move that this Resolution do
now pass.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.

Mr. St. JOHN: Mr. Chairman, the Addendum to
this Resolution is not at all clear to us on this side,
and particularly paragraph 4 of the second page. It
seems to us that on the first page in the head and
item of the Schedule "Statutory Expenditure", there
should be a note that what is contained in paragraph
4 should be inserted there.

As I understand the position in Barbados, under
the provisions of the Constitution at the present
moment, the Statutory Expenditure is that which by
some Act or legislation is either charged on the
Consolidated Fund, or should be paid out of the
revenue of the Island; so that the fact that no pro -
vision had been made in the Estimates under Head
39, Ecclesiastical, does not mean that the Accountant
General can refuse to pay those emoluments to the
Clergy who are under the Civil Establishment Act,
because the Civil Establishment Act is the authority
for the payment.

All that is required to be voted now is the
provision of Other Expenditure which is contained
in paragraph 3 of the Addendum. Perhaps the Minis -
ter, who introduced this piece of legislation, can
explain whether the meaningof "statutory provision"
under personal emoluments is still effective with the
following details. If he looks at the Estimates, Head
39, surely; at this stage now, since there is no
legislation which has amended the Civil Establish-
ment Act, or the Anglican Church Act which deals
with the position of the Bishop of Barbados' emolu-
ments and the emoluments which are charged, and
those clergymen who were appointed before the An-
glican Church passed the Suspension Act, when we are
dealing with the Supplementary Estimates it ought
to be made clear that there is now in existence Sta-
tutory Expenditure. There is bound to.be Statutory
Expenditure now..

Although one sees under Head 39, Ecclesias-
tical, "No Statutory Expenditure", that is not
accurate at the present moment. That is the only
point I wish to make.

Mr. CRAIG: Mr. Chairman, while Imust support
this Resolution so that the Clergy will have their
monies in their pockets like other Civil Servants, so
to speak, I must say that it is unfortunate to see that
this Government is another classic example of Gov-
ernment starting before they are ready.

I think the Leader of the House, Mr. Chairman,
will agree with me, and I think he is honest and big
enough to do so, that hehas beenchargedincertain







1624


quarters by certain people, by all parties and all
sections of the community, with the mishandling of
affairs in the Ministry of Education under which Head
39 falls. I have heard that he was firedfromthat
Ministry, but I do not believe it, and elevated to the
Ministry of Caribbean and Latin American Affairs.
I think I have the correct Ministry in which he and I
had a little and will have a little "do together" in
the Press shortly.

No one can safely say that if this Assembly had
found itself in the very unfortunate position as the
Federal Assembly did with a floating vote, and that
floating vote had opposed the Clergy, I do not know
what the Clergy would do between now and the time
that they are prepared, according to the Minister, to
get these ends tied up.
8.50 p.m.

How long will it take? That is the important
question. When my Party was in power, it advocated
the disestablishment of the Anglican Church and I
agree with that. Since this Government came into
power, they set about to do likewise, but it is seven
years or almost seven years in which they have
been struggling with the disestablishment of the
Church. Now tonight we are being asked by the Hon.
Leader of the House to vote this money to assist the
Clergy. The whole question of the Church in Barbados
has always been a bit of a problem. I must confess,
however, that the Anglican Church or any denomina-
tion in Barbados has played an important role in this
country, but there is one thing which I would like to
draw to the attention of the Hon. Leader of the House,
that is, that as soon as they disestablished the An-
glican Church, there is anotherclean-upwhichthey
have to do, and that is to clean up a lot of these
highway robbers, I call them, who come to Barbados
as State Leaders and carry away thousands of
dollars, like Billy Graham, a hypocrite, who has
never condemned racialism throughout the entire
world, from Australia to Madras; neither have they
condemned the people from Miami in Florida to
Iceland for segregation, neither in his country nor
abroad, but he came to Barbados some years ago
and carried away thousands of dollars from some
of the most unfortunate people in the community.

Not only should we put the Anglican Church on
their feet and allow them to take care of themselves,
but the time will come and it has to come, when we
have to deal with these half-baked crooks who come
to Barbados sometimes on yachts. I have had the
experience of sitting down on platforms with them
since I have been in public life, and when I am greeted
by them and they are told that I am a member of
Parliament, they tell me one thing and they tell the
congregation something else. I can bring a classic
example of one who told me that his daughter was
ten years old and she was playing the guitar at two,
and when he came to preach, he said that his daugh-
ter was ten years and she was playing the guitar
for four years. I am making these points. I am sure
that the Hon. Leader of the House was a preacher
himself at one time, or he still is, but there is a
lot of truth in this. There is also a lot of truth in


the ridiculous sermon that the Bishop of Barbados
preached at the Memorial Service for the late Dr.
King. He should be ashamed to have adorned the
sacred pulpit of St. Michael's Cathedral and say
absolutely nothing. Now we are asked to vote money
for him to cool out. I must say that it is unfortunate
that we have such a Head of the Clergy. I believe that
from the time that the Anglican Church came into
this country, not one single coloured Bishop has ever
adorned Bishop's Court House. !hope that when the
Church is disestablished, the Government will not
have any say in it, because I heard that on one
occasion the Government wanted to appoint a Bishop -
I do not know how true that is that they wanted to
have some say in the affairs of the Church. I hope
that that is not so. I heard this when the Hon. Leader
of the House I am not accusing the Hqn. Leader of
the House because I like to give the Leader of the
House what is due to him, for the sight which is so
vigorous, youthful and dynamic, a TV viewer or
cartoonist, to my mind, he is. However, you look at
TV you can see the Minister of Education. On every
page of nearly every paper you can see that they are
pushing the Minister of Education, I am told, for
St, James and that is another part of the story. We
do not have to worry about that part; but if the Minis-
ter of Education, I am confident, is responsible for
the mishandling of the ecclesiastical affairs, it is
his duty to know that they anticipated they would
have got through with this matter by the beginning of
the financial year; but tonight the Clergy are in a
very unfortunate position in that when every Civil
Servant has been paid, I believe, on the 25th and
the 26th of this month, they are hoping tonight that
they will be paid theirs. Iknow thatthe Government
has the numbers, and we are going to support this
Resolution, but I just want to express these senti-
ments not only on the Anglican Church but, as I
said earlier, on many of these highway robbers like
the Reverend at the Baptist Church in Constitution
Road. When I telephoned him and asked hm if he
was going to have a Memorial Service for Dr, King, he
said that he could not because he had Communist
views. Those are the people in respect of whom I
hope the Government will look into, that type of
person who is prepared to divide and rule. Nobody
really could condemn a man's religion. I believe that
is democracy, freedom of speech, freedomof choice
of your political Party and freedom to choose your
religion. If Reverend Harold Tudor chooses to be a
"Dem" and to be even amemberof the Democratic
Labour Party and to canvass the teachers and the
congregation, that is Reverend Harold Tudor's busi-
ness. We might have a Reverend too, who knows?
(Hon. J. C. TUDOR: We have ten.) The Hon. Leader
of the House seems to know a little more than I know,
and I wonder if it is that the Minister of Education
is holding up the coppers.

Mr. Chairman, I am not prepared to hold up the
House unduly, but I hope that the Hon. Leader of the
House will take into consideration these few re-
marks and when they disestablish the Church and
free the Church from the State, letthemdotheir
own business and let the Governmnent keep out
of their affairs and make sure that they keep a very







1625


close watch on some of these highway robbers who
come in sheep's clothing and carry away money from
Barbados at times,- I believe, tax free. That is one
of the very salient points which I wanted to make in
my speech. You can rest assuredthat there is nothing
that we can do with this Resolution but to support
it because we are well aware of the fact that without
this Resolution being passed, the Clergy would be in
a bit of trouble. After all, they have spent their days
studying when they could have devoted their time to
some other profession, and if this is their chosen
profession, then they must be paid for it. I also
wish to say that this may be the last time when I
might have an opportunity to say anything on these
affairs and I wish to say that I am one who believes
that the Church did something for this community
years ago, and I sincerely hope that they will con-
tinue to do something to elevate the social standing
in particular of this community in the years to come.

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Chairman, I. wish I could, at
this stage, cause this Resolution to become contro-
versial, because we would all be heading for home
in a matter of minutes. Nevertheless, it is indeed
unfortunate that we have to be here tonight to consider
the terms of this Resolution. Why I say so, is this;
on pay-day all Civil Servants and members of the
Civil .Establishment or whatever you call,them, had
received their pay cheques, all with the exception of
the members of the Anglican Clergy.
9.00 p.m.

There are times, Sir, when there canbe genuine
mistakes; but I regret to have to say that we are
seeing too many mistakes in the affairs of the
Ministry,. of Education which is responsible for
Ecclesiastical Affairs.

For instance, one would imagine that the Gov-
ernment knew quite well when the Estimates were
being passed that the necessary enabling Act which
would effect: the disestablishment of the Anglican
Church was not ready. It was known before pay-day
that pay-day had to come and that the Clergy without
their pay cheques would be put to considerable incon-
venience.

What happened in that respect? It was not until
the day before pay-day that the Bishop received a
communication from the Ministry of Education in-
forming the Bishop that no pay would be available
the day following and expressing regrets for any
inconvenience.

That was the day before pay-day; but other
members of the Clergy were not even treated that
way. They found themselves and each and every
member knows that we have never had a wealthy body
of Clergymen many of them who had made arrange -
ments for their pay cheques to go to the banks turned
up at the banks, and some of them were so sure
that their. pay cheques would .have been deposited
with their respective banks .that they went about and
must have issued cheques, feeling that their accounts
at the banks would have justified it.


Some of them had cause to turn up at the banks
themselves, and when searches were made up and
down the banks they learned for the first time that
there was no pay for them that day. I feel within
myself that it was beastly unfair to the members of
the Anglican Clergy, and it so happened that some
of them the day after pay-day then received letters
expressing regret for any inconvenience caused.
That is after pay-day had gone by. Nobody could
suggest that it was reasonable or fair or just to
those people.

It so happened, Sir, that it was not every mem-
ber of the Clergy who was content to go and find that
his cheque was not deposited. Some ofthemwent
to the Ministry of Education. Do you believe, Sir,
that a member of the Clergy went to the Ministry of
Education and a member of the staff of the Ministry
had the brass to look at a member of the Clergy and
tell him: "Oh, you cannot say anything about it be-
cause after all it is not due until the 30th." That is
what was done by a Civil Servant. They are not
particularly concerned with the inconvenience that
this really caused.

They look at a member of the Clergy and tell
him that he cannot do anything because it does not
become due until the 30th. We feel that it is not fair
that the Clergy should be treated in that way at all;
but Mr. Chairman, we have got to look at the Minis-
try of Education and see if the time is not come when
you will have to demonstrate in some form or
fashion the people's dissatisfaction and disappoint-
ment with all that is going on there.

We have seen, Mr. Chairman, as I have seen,
that because there is not that amount of delegation of
responsibility amongst various members of the
Ministry the Permanent Secretary, the Chief
Education Officer and people placed in that category -
you will find that this country of ours now stands
to lose the respect, and more the benefit of having
out nationals being taught the Spanish language free of
cost in this nation. All who wanted to learn Spanish
could have come and be taught the Spanish language
just for the asking.

That, Mr. Chairman, is one of those serious
things that we cannot sit idly by and allow to continue
to happen. It looks very bad, however one might try
to brush it over, however one might try to. make it
sound not so bad.

It is definitely a bad case and the one reason for
it is this Mr. Chairman, I have had occasion in this
Hon. House to speak with regard to the Royal Barba-
dos Police Force, and to saythattwo PoliceSuper-
intendents were not on speaking terms with each
other.

Now, I know what dangers such a situation can
create in an organisation, and I am prepared to say
tonight that the present Minister of Education cannot
expect the co-operation of the members of his
Department. The Minister seems to be a "knowall",







1626


And his approach is such that if the most valued
member of his Department had any information, any
suggestion to make to him, he would be tempted
to sit back, and time flows by and there is hardly
any communication whatsoever between the Minister
of Education and certain members of his Ministry.
That is responsible for the state of affairs existing
today.

You will find, Mr. Chairman, that, in this very
matter pertaining to the Clergy, there is evidence
that something has got to be wrong between the
Permanent Secretary, the Chief Education Officer
and the Minister of Education. Something has got to
be wrong between the three of them.
9.10 p.m.
Things cannot be working smoothly. If, on the other
hand, they are so overworked that they have to leave
some of the most important business undone, would
it not be better tonight, Mr. Chairman,- if we were
asked to vote a sum of money to provide staff for
the Ministry of Education to cope withitsbusiness?

You must bear in mind, Sir, that when matters
of this nature occur in a Ministry or a Department
such as the Ministry of Education, it can do untold
harm to the community at large. Just picture things
for yourself, Sir. This happens to be the case of
about sixty Clergymen. One might be tempted to say
that they will soon get over it, or something of the
sort, but it is not right.

If it was seen that Government had attempted to
bring about a settlement between the Anglican Church
and the State by way of disestablishment; if they
had seen and known that it was notpossible to have
had the necessary legislation passed by the House of
Assembly by the time these gentlemen were entitled
to receive their salaries in respect of the month of
April, I have to say that it was the bounden duty of
the Ministry of Education the Minister and his
Permanent Secretary at as early a date as possi-
ble, to have got in touch with the Bishop, the Synod
and the Clergy instead of taking these members of
the Anglican Clergy and treating them badly.

In other words, here is a case where we must
come to the conclusion that the Government feels
it does not want their services any longer and it
begins to treat them in this manner. It is not fair
it is not right; and we on this side of the House cannot
encourage the Government to treat the Clergy or any
other body of people in this manner.

We are asked, Mr. Chairman, to vote the sum of
$84,229 by way of a Supplementary Resolution, but I
have to ask, Mr. Chairman, since we have already
voted the sn4 of $248,000 under this Head, can we
now go whether by way of a Supplementary Reso-
lution or otherwise and vote the sum of $84,229
under the same Head?

Hon. J; C. TUDOR: Yes, we can, because the
original sum voted of $248,000 will lapse and it
cannot be used.


Mr. HINDS: Mr. Chairman, I appreciate the fact
that the $248,000 will not be used and that it will
lapse, but does the statute make provision, at this
stage, for us to have $84,229 and $248,000 under
this Head at one and the same time? That is all I am
concerned with. Are we within our rights tonight? If
we even seek to accommodate the Minister and the
Leader of the House, and if we are moved in our
desire to see the members of the Clergy get their
salaries as soon as possible, are we doingiwhatis
right? That is one question we would lice to have
considered in every aspect.

We learn from the Leader of the House, a former
Minister of Education I do not know why it is that
he had had the misfortune to be back in this thing
again, because he quite well remembers that, in the
battle of words which went on between himself and
the Bishop, for the first time in the career of the
Leader of the House he seems to have run out of
words. That is quite unlike him. It is rather un-
fortunate that he now finds himself back in the saddle,
so to speak, in this matter of the disestablishment of
the Anglican Church.

We have learnt from him that even now there
remains certain matters to be settled between Synod
and the State. Mr. Chairman, is not that in itself
sufficient evidence to prove that either the Ministry
of Education is not sufficiently concerned, or has
lost interest, or the Minister is not prepared to
accept his responsibilities where the Anglican
Church and disestablishment are concerned?

From the time it was known that certain matters
remained to be settled, by negotiation, discussion
or otherwise, that in itself was enough to have
caused the Minister to realise that legislation could
not be enacted in time to bring about this disestablish -
ment, to bring about the break between Church and
State, and the one and only just thing to do would
have been to bring this Resolution before the House
at a very early date so that the Clergy could feel
like honourable men who have laboured and are
entitled to receive at the end of the day like any
other member of the Civil Establishment. That is how
we feel about it.

The Minister, for instance, took us along the
path, as he says, that leadeth unto disestablishment.
We might thank him at this stage, but it is not
necessary for him to carry us along that road tonight
because exactly how far he had to go is, to our mind,
not germaine to the issue. What we are concerned
with is whether or not this money should be voted,
and whether or not in voting this money we will be
doing what is right.
9.20 p.m.

I heard the Minister say that it may be on the
question of their performing certain functions,
whether they will be there in the future or to what
extent they will be called upon pr what not. Already
it has been drawn to my attention that Priests at
Churches have had occasions to be asked by the







1627


members of their congregation to bring the Register
of births or baptisms into the Registrar's office. In
one particular case know that the Priest promptly
said that he would have to be paidfor carrying in the
Register. He wanted car hire and said that he should
be paid a day's pay., On receiving the' report, I tried
to get in touch with him and he promptly asked me
what I expected him to do, if I expected him to leave
his district and, incidentally, this was in St. Michael,
not far away in St. Lucy or St. Peter or St. Philip.
Mr. Chairman, this will be one of the minor details
which would have to be worked out with the Bishop,
Synod and Church Committees or whatever it is, as
they go along from time to time. We are particularly
distressed over the fact that, despite the shortcomings
of many members of the Clergy, the Ministry of Ed-
ucation in its stride to promote a good image of its
Minister and while we do not wish to speak about
good looking men, I have to say that regardless of
what ever image the present Minister of Education
may project over a number of years. I do not see it
looking as anything being worthwhile to look at in its
truest sense. He is not a good-looking man, but, as
I say, we do not wish to speak of good-looking men.
That belongs to the fairer sex. You look at some of
our schools, or the method which is being employed
by the Government in bringing about this disestab-
lishment of the Anglican Church; the method of ap-
proach is bad; it is very, very bad indeed. It is coming
about, to my mind, with too much friction between
the Church and the State. It is something which
should be processed in a smooth and orderly man-
ner, as all things pertaining to the Church should
be orderly.

Mr. Chairman it seems to me that even now
the Hon. Leader of the House may be turning away
from his upbringing with the Churches, his associa-
tion with them, and he might become tainted with
some others who have absolutely no use for a Church
door at all. We do not, for a single moment, associate
the hon. junior member for St. Andrew with turning
away from his Church. Oh, No, Sir. He is one man
who, if you call upon him in the middle of the night,
he can quote you some scriptures which might never
exist. (Laughter). And hon. members laugh. Mr.
Chairman, we are expected to vote for this Resolution.
Undoubtedly we will do so, but I wonder if the Hon.
Leader of the House would be able to inform us at
this stage if it is not correct to say that, even now,
Synod is awaiting the final draft of the enabling Bill
from the Government.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Yes, this must be true because
I said that there were one or two outstanding points
which were still to be clarified, and if they have
been clarified, they have to be incorporated in draft
which will then be sent to the Synod.

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Chairman, it is true that
tonight we are not, in the truest sense, discussing
all aspects of this enabling Bill because it is not
before us, but the Hon. Leader of the House tried
to point out to us some of the terms which will be
brought into force, which will be obtaining when the
enabling Bill comes into force. I am wondering if,


even at this stage, the Minister could tell us in the
best way he can, if it has occurred to the Government
at any stage to see that in disestablishingthe Church,
ample provision iS made for the protection of the
rights of Church Officers. (Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Yes.)
The Hon Leader of the House has replied in the
affirmative.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: If the hon member will give
way, I can tell him why I can boldly say "Yes". The
Church Officers, as you know, were employed by the
Local Government Authorities. We have taken over
all the obligations of the Councils; the Councils took
over all the obligations of the Vestries and, likewise,
the Central Government has taken over all the
obligations of the Councils. Therefore, pensions,
gratuities and severance pay or whatever it is, which
accrues to these people, will be fully met by the
Government.

Mr. HINDS: Sir, believe me, I am glad to hear
the Hon. Leader of the House say that the Central
Government has taken over from what was formerly
Local Government, and will be responsible for
pensions, gratuities, severance payment and whatever
is due to these Church Officers.
9.30 p.m.

But, Sir, there must be many years before the
pension stage is reached. There would have to be
also a number of years before the question of
severance pay could also arise; but it is these in-
tervening years that I would like to address my
mind to at this particular moment. I am sure that
the Leader of the House knows that there are many
of these Church Officers who worked with Local
Government Councils, and they never received salary
increases over a period of years. Some of them have
not had a salary increase for ten years; but now we
have reached the stage where these same Church
Officers find themselves being considered for what?
Pension rights, gratuities or severance pay.

Surely, Mr. Chairman, the Government, Central
Government, would only be doing what is just and
right if, even if it is brought to their attention at this
late hour, to correct in all fairness the anomalous
position of those people and see whether theyhad-not
been denied of what was their due. It would help them
when it comes to the computing of their pensions or
gratuities or severance pay or whatever else is due
to them.

We are not, Mr. Chairman, opposing this Reso-
lution, andour mainreason for not opposing it is this:
We want the members of the Anglican Clergy to
bear in mind that we on this side of the House are
with them in this, one of their trials, so to speak,
because do not let us fool ourselves, a parson or
priest, or whatever you may choose to call him, is
just another human being like you or me.

He has his responsibilities. He has his commit-
ments; and when the hour of pay arises and he finds
that he is without it, he must turn around and face
embarrassment like anybody else. He has got to








1628


.make excuses to somebody. Tell me, if a Minister
of the Anglican Church left his district and came
into, Bridgetown for his salary to be told that no
salary was there, is it not grossly unfair. He might
be one who might have had garage bills or gasoline
bills. They have got to eat and wear clothes like
anybody else.

Are you to tell me that it is an easy thing for
them to return home and say that theyhave been told
no pay today, and further that some Civil Servant
who is getting very well besides himself, should tell
a member of the Clergy that he cannot say anything
because it does not become due until the 30th of the
month? We do not like these things, and we are
throwing out a warning to the Minister of Education.

Mr. Chairman, everything seems to be wrong
with the Minister of Education. They are spending
large sums of money, a fair size of the nation's
budget, and there seems to be no proper accounting
even to the extent that the Auditor General cannot
get reports and carry out a proper audit. All of these
things are wrong.

It is true that sooner or later, while we might
try to be at peace,from what we have seen going on
in the Ministry of Education we have got to be upon
ourtoes. Mr. Chairman, do you realise what is in
very great measure responsible for the behaviour of
the present Minister of Education? He is not an-
swerable in this House to the electorate. He does
not have to come and standuphere and be bombarded
with questions as to his conduct.

That, Mr. Chairman, is something that,'while
the Constitution makes provision for him to be hidden
away in the Other Place, I may say that the day will
come very soon when we hope that the present
Leader of the House will say that he can stand no more
of this embarrassment for the Minister of Education;
let him come and answer himself.

You will find, Mr. Chairman, that the Minister
seems to be charting a course for wrecking the ship
of Government. Why do I say so? Not many days
ago there was apostof Education Officer in the Min'-
istry to be filled. What did we find? Quite a number
of qualified teachers who have worked hard and
richly deserve promotion made applications for the
post. They wanted promotion. No. Sir. No promotion
for them, no matter how hard working and no matter
how concientious.

What we find is this, that member of the staff
of Harrison College was invited to come over into
Macedonia, without the knowledge, without the sanc-
tion of that body so nobly elected to examine those
who had applied for the post. All this was done when
the Minister thinks nothing about the Public Service
Commission. He can do as he likes. He will have
whom he will and he will appoint whom he will.

SThen' what do we find? We find that people in
the Service who have been giving of their best for
many years must of necessity become frustrated


people. If you find actions such as this from the
Minister, it should demonstrate his indifference
to the assurance that a hard working officer at the
end of his day will not be going home to his family
receiving in the evening of his days the mere pit-
tance which he began to get 18, 20 or possibly 30
years before.

It is not fair, and we are calling on the Minister
of Education- we are asking the Leader of the House
to pass on to the Minister of Education what we
have said tonight. Let the Minister understand that
from this night forward we are going to excerise
vigilance, we are going to be watchful, we are go-
ing to observe and take notes of all that he has done
and is doing to wreck the educational system of this
country.

I say that, Sir, because if the Minister has the
best designed plans and the best ideas, he cannot
expect to meet success if he alone is to be Captain
First Mate, Second Mate, First Cook and Boatswain
and everything on the ship. You, Mr. Chairman,
must see and must know what I am talking about.

Tonight members of the.Anglican clergy cannot
feel themselves as having been treated like men. And,
Mr.. Chairman, they are not at fault. They have not
contributed anything whatsoever to create the sit-
uation that has prevented itself to the Legislature.
We do not want to dictate to the Minister. We do not
want to give the appearance that we do not approve
of this Resolution; but we need to make it known
that when we see something that is bad we will
tell from the house tops.
9.40 p.m.

We are going to tell it from the housetops. We
are willing to have this $84,229 voted tonight. Is it
sufficient for us to tell ourselves that because we
want to see the Anglican Clergy get their salaries
that we should just sit and allow the matter to go
through the House without saying anything or doing
anything about the matter? It is one of these oppor
tinities, Mr. Chairman, that I am very, very, sorry
it was not possible for this Resolution:to have been
introduced at a very early hour.


I know that the hon. junior member for St. An-
drew has a long.way to go; he has Scripture enough
to quote tonight; he plans that he is not going to
rush the brush, because he does not want to waste
the paint. I am going to give this Resolution my
wholehearted support, but we are warning the Leader
of the House that it seems to us that when his Gov-
ernment sets out even to do a good thing, it employs
bad tactics; its approach is so bad that when we
would be glad to take note of.that jot ortittle of good,
the wrongs that it does far outweigh and obscures
the good. That is no fault of ours.

We promised that we will support this Resolution,
and we hope ,that when the Government finds it pos-
sible to have the necessary enabling legislation
brought before this House, we will not be having a







1629


Police outrider coming to our house the night before
with, a "hot and sweaty" Bill, and we turn up here
the next day to hear some honourable members say
that they have not received the Bill. For instance,
His Honour the Speaker says he has not received a
copy of this Resolution. But weeks have rolled
over and quite a number of things could have been
done.

The Leader of the House cannot deny that it is
a lack of responsibility on the part of the Ministry
of Education and, perhaps, to a lesser extent, on the
Crown Law Office, for these members of the Angli-
can Clergy finding themselves receiving the treat-
ment that was meted out to them on pay-day. Mr.
Chairman, it is with those few remarks that I think
I can say that I will lend this Resolution my support.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: In view of the hour,
Mr. Chairman,and the many points the hon. member
who has just sat down has made, I do not propose
to say what I had intended to say. That is why I
stayed in for this debate, but there are two points
I must make. It seems to me, especially after
hearing the hon. member, that two things have
happened. It is gross carelessness when an itemlike
this I could not have thought of this until I heard
the Hon. Leader of the House speak. How could you
possibly put this $248,000 in the Estimates when you
not only knew that the Bill had not yet been com-
pleted, but even if it were partly completed in draft
it could not have been completed? You not only
knew that, bit you knew that the Government and
the Church had not yet agreed, even if it were on
a simple matter. In short, you could not possibly
tell whether the Agreement would be long drawn out.

Look how easy it would have been to let the Es-
timates stay as they were last year. Of course, if
the Act has been passed last month, let us say, then
you would, when the Estimates were being dealt with
here, say that you propose to withdraw that because
the Act has been passed and you insert instead the
$248,000.
9.50 p.m.

I am told I do not know how true it is that
what happened with the past Government varied to
some extent, but I am told that the whole Cabinet
goes through the Estimates, and the responsible
Ministers explain to the Cabinet Head after Head.
Certainly that used to be done in the old Executive
Committee days before we had the Ministerial sys-
tem. Whether it was always done with the Minister-
ial system is a different matter; but if this Govern-
ment has revised the system which existed inthe old
Executive Committee days, how is it that no member
of the Cabinet, spotted this or asked: "What about
the Bill?" The hon. member made it even worse by
saying April, 1969. How do you know that you will
get this Bill before March 19697 How do you know
that you have a whole year within which you can play?
How could it escape? It could nothave escaped, but I
was going to ask how could it have escaped any
ordinary draughtsman. It could not have escaped be-
Cause the $248,000 was not there. This was a spec-


ific change from what the normal Estimate would
have been, to put in something for which you had not
yet got and apparently, you could not say when you
would get, agreement on.
In short, if these matters it is noticeable too -
-I hope that those who are taking down my words will
forgive me for breaking off in the middle of a ques-
tion and saying something else, but the Hon. Leader
of the .House was as unnatural in his speech as he
could be; at least he gave me that impression. It
did not come about easily, it did not flow out smoothly
and it almost looked as if the hon. member was think-
ing of what to say. I am not throwing anything at him,
but he must, from his previous experience in the De-
partment, have sufficient knowledge notto have to
feel for words when explaining a matter under this
Head. Surely, apart from that, he must see, no
matter what Head it would be, that if you are seeing
something in the Estimates which is going in for the
first time, you must have legislative authority for it.
Even if the Bill was passed early this month, that
would not have justified your putting in this $248,000.
I repeat for the last time: How could it be justified
that it goes in when the Agreement is not there yet,
and when the Agreement may not be there for
another eleven months? How do you know, even in the
ordinary things you can call them ordinary things
if you like how do you know that you are going
to agree on things which are still outstanding? In
short, there is no justification for this thing taking
place. If the Hon. Leader of the House does, not say
anything else, I would like him to tell us what ex-
planation was given when the Estimates were being
prepared, for inserting something when you knew
that you did not have any legal reason to say: "This
thing is going, to be inserted, but we might,not have
to make use of it. The Bill is ready and it will be
passed about the same time." Sometimes you
will bring the two things together.

I think that the Government is lucky that the
Opposition is not in their places because I entirely
agree with the strictures that is the information
which we have had on this side, and the strictures
which the hon. member has laid on the Minister
himself. I think we all agree that it is lamentable
to think that the Minister is not a member of this
House, but a member of the Other Place; but from
all that is being said, the Minister is not even get-
ting on with the Department. Anyway, Iwarnthe Hon.
Leader of the House before hand to be prepared to
get all the information he can from the Minister's
Department because we intend as soon as the appro-
priate occasion arises in this House, to attack that
Minister on the running of his Department, I am
straying a bit, but I will not be for more. than a
minute. The things which the Minister tells the
public in fact that are going to be done have never
been brought to this House. The nonsense about
a Sixth Form College (Hon. N.W. BOXILL: That
is not before the House.) The hon. member ought
to have manners occasionally and leave it to the
Chairman to have the necessary discipline in
Committee, and not sit in his seat and make these
grunting stupid noises. Let him keep his bad manners








1630


for outside. That is the advice I would give the
hon. member. Let him try to have good manners
when he comes into the House. I suggest I should
tell him In any event, I am preparing the Hon.
Leader of the House because he will have to do the
defence. We do not intend, on this side of the House,
to do things haphazardly; I will let him know now
before hand when he comes with anything affecting
education, he must be prepared for shocks all round
this side of the Table.

Mr. HINDS: Mr. Chairman, before the Hon.
Minister replies, I wonderif the Hon. Leader of the
House could tell us if the draft Bill is ready. I have
my reason for asking that question (Hon. J.C. TUDOR:
It is all but ready.) It is all but ready.I understand
the Minister to say that the draft Bill is all but
ready, but is it not a case where, to bring the ena-
bling Bill before the House and have it passed,
would have put the Government in the embarras-
sing position of having to meet a commitment of
$248,000 which they do not have in the Treasury?
Is that the case? (Hon. N.W. BOXILL: What foolish-
ness is the hon. member talking?) IknowIwill
hear that this is foolishness. Iam just enquiring of
the Minister, and Ihave very good reasons for ask-
ing the Minister what I am asking him. I know that
the hon. member is tired and would like to go home,
but I am going to do my parliamentary duties be-
cause I am here and I will do them. We have a faint
suspicion that the more we state this Mr. Chairman,
the Minister cannot deny that money has already been
voted under Heads, and despite what I heard the
Prime Minister say about money not being paid out
unless it is being properly vouched for and that sort
of thing, I do not believe one word of that at all. We
are wondering if this is not a case where, even the
$248,000 which has been voted by this House, is not
to be found in the Treasury.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Chairman, I am really
astonished that what I had thought was a quite simple
Resolution in its essentials should have produced so
much political mileage.
10.00 p.m.


It would seem to me that there is nothing before
the House that you cannot bring up for the purpose
of attacking the Government, whether the attack is
justifiable or not. It seems to me, not only from this
debate, but from previous debates, hon. members
opposite do not like the Hon. Minister of Education.
That is how it seems and they are not prepared
perhaps to be as fair-minded in assessing him and
his work as they ought to be.


Some of these things that I hear are going on in
Government I often hear for the first time. I do not
know if the Minister is at variance with his staff. I
have no reason to believe that that is so, and I do
not see why hon. members should think that because
and we admit that this is an unfortunate matter -
that because this is before the House in this way,
there is some disagreement betweenrthe Minister and
his officers in the Ministry.


I believe that it would be well to remember that
when the Estimates are drawn up it is usually in the
month of August or September. When they go to the
Cabinet on their way to the House they are already
printed, and it is true that quite frequently before
they reach the House in their final form they are al-
tered to suit changes of policy which may have de-
veloped, say, between the time that they were first
begun and when they reached the House in the final
form. They certainly come to the Cabinet in this form,
and it is in this form that they are approved and laid
in the House.

Now, Sir, the proposals for settlement with the
Anglican Church were indicated by me to the Lord
Bishop early in August. I thought it proper to do this
myself because I did not think it fair to my successor,
who I knew was coming in at the middle of August,
or before the end of August, to give him the trouble
of communicating the Cabinet's decision to the Bishop,
when he was not a member of the Cabinet in the pre-
ceeding months. So I indicated the proposals.

The Estimates were prepared, I believe, in August
or early September on the basis of the agreement
which had been reached, and the figure put in here was
$248,000. With respect to that there is no dispute.
That was put in because it was evidently hoped that
say between the end of August and the 31st March of
the followingyear the enabling legislation either would
have been completely on the Statute Book or would
have been brought before the House, if not brought
before, at least simultaneouslywith, theEstimates. I
think that that was a legitimate expectation.

There are, Mr. Chairman, two Departments most
concerned with the matter. They are the Ministries
of Education and Finance. Between themselves they
decided that it was proper to insert the figure of
Statutory Expenditure in the Estimates because both
the Permanent Secretary of the Ministry of Educa-
tion and the Financial Secretary had every reason
to believe that bewteen the end of August and the 31st
March the settlement would have been enacted.

One does not normally disclose Cabinet trans-
actions, but I think I can safely say that when the Cabinet
came to approve the Estimates it was known that
there was no outstanding matter to be settled at that
time between the Government and the Church.

The Attorney General, when the Estimates were
laid, had prepared a draft Bill which was with the
Synod. It was after we had approved the Estimates
and laid them that it was indicated that there were
one or two points or, may be three points in the draft
Bill which needed further clarification: and the Min-
ister of Education and the Attorney General met the
Bishop and his advisers on these points and it was
decided that further study would have to be given.

Even then the Cabinet for its part wanted further
clarifications on one other point which we thought it
better to spell out in detail lest there should be
some confusion. In other words while during the Es-
timates I did make or rather I did ask the Attorney







1631


-General whether he thought that we could proceed.
with the Estimates in this form, because I pointed
out to him that since the figure of $248,000 was put
under Statutory Expenditure, I did not think that the
House in Committee of Supply would delete that
figure, but that adjustment both legal and adminis-
trative, would have to be made in other ways.

However, the Committee appropriated the
amount. At that time, when the Estimates were con-
cluded, we had one more matter a very trouble-
some matter. As the hon. member for St. Peter will
recall, the Hon. Leader of the Opposition was not in the
Island when we were dealing with the C.B.C. matter.
It was my intention in the week in which we did the
Resolution for the Caribbean Broadcasting Corpora-
tion to see whether this matter could not be
straightened out then.

Unfortunately, and I confess this to the House
without feeling in any way abashed, though I regret
it, the involvement of myself in the two Resolutions
dealing with C. B. C. kno::kedthis matter cleanoutof
my head and I, therefore, did not have time to have
the consultations which would have been necessary
in order to straighten this matter out one month
before now.

Then, in the following week I fell ill and went into
Hospital. I have been away from my work until only
Wednesday last week when, again, I went off to
Antigua; so that, to all intents and purposes, I have
been away from House business although the House
itself was in recess. I dare say if I had been active
with my duties I would have sought Mr. Speaker's
permission to have a special meeting of the House
last week to deal with it and, therefore avoid the
inconvenience which a few weeks' delay would have
brought on the Clergymen concerned.

These are the facts of the matter, and this is
why I .say that it is unfair really to place the blame
on the Minister of Education. If you do not care for
a person, you do not care for him, but I would think
that, out of fairness to him, hon. members on the
other side ought to give the Minister a chance to do
his work. After all, fin my mind, Iwould have thought
that, in the view of hon. members opposite, he would
meet every possible criteria that you couldpossibly
want for a Minister of Government. He is a Barbados
Scholar; he has the right colour; the right family
background; the personal achievement; he is in the
right Party. All of these things he has to his credit
and I think he ought to be allowed to do his work
without this nagging criticism. He does not need my
defence, but I say this for him because I happen to
know him as a colleague. He is not the kind of
person which he is portrayed to be in this House. He
is neither arrogant, vainglorious, nor in any way
interfering, as we hear from the other side, and
those of his colleagues who work with him and
see his approach to his work have an entirely
different view of him from the view which is por-
trayed here.


Naturally, the Minister knows that since he is a
politician, though not an elected one, he must meet
both his fair and unfair share of public criticism. In
my view, he is perfectly aware of this and is not
particularly worried by the amount of unfair cri-
ticism which is thrown at him.


I just want to interject a personal note because
I do not want to detain the House. Hon. Members
cannot have it both ways. When his appointment was
first announced in the House, it was gloried in; it
was thought to be something done at my expense. The
other side welcomed it. Senator Barrow, who is a loyal
member of the Barbados Labour Party, I believe, for
the first two or three months, certainly in the first
month after the Minister was appointed, said what a
welcome relief it was from my regime that at long
last the Minister of Education had a chance to live.


Well, if hon. members, or their colleagues, were
so glad that I was moved in order that my colleagues
may take over, at least give my colleague time
enough to do his work, and see and appreciate the
kind of work he is doing. Be fair-minded; that is all
I am asking.

The personal note I was striking is this one has
to get this on the record. As soon as the last General
Election was over, I wrote to the Prime Minister,
even before he had resigned in order to be reap-
pointed, saying that I was ready to leave the Ministry
of Education because, so far as I personally was
concerned, I had done my share and my part. He
asked me to wait until a more convenient moment
when he could turn his attention to the question of
my successor, and he asked me whom I would re-
commend. I made a recommendation, and some eight
months after the appointment was made. These are
the facts. I therefore, first of all, would not and
could not join in any denigration of my colleague,
not merely because he is a Ministerial colleague and
I owe him that much loyalty, but I would not join in
it because I would not have drawn the Prime
Minister's attention to what I thought and still think
are his obviously excellent qualities if I did not think
him the kind of person who would be a Minister of
Education of the calibre we need in this juncture.
This is how I feel.
Furthermore, I would not demean myself either
by remaining silent when criticism is made of him,
or by half-hearted replies to criticisms, making it
appear that I am in agreement with those criticisms.
I think he is doing an excellent job of work. It is a
hard, backbreaking and wholly unthankful task to be
a Minister of Education because you cannot please
everybody, and you succeed in displeasing everybody,
as I know from personal experience. The hon. Member
himself has had some experience of it, but at the
same time, unpleasant though one's task may be,
policy has to be devised and executed. All I ask,-in
fairness to him, is not that he be spared criticism,
but that such criticism of him should be fair-minded
and free from personal denigration.








1632


Mr. Chairman, I say that I sincerely regret
tis inconvenience, but it was not an inconvenience"
which sprung from any bad motivation, but from a
series of unfortunate mishaps and omissions which
I very much regret.

One last point. The hon. member for St. Peter
said that he hopes he will not hear that the $248,000
is no longer in the Treasury. I do not think he will
ever hear that. The sum has been appropriated,
but it will have to lapse because the proper authority
for the expenditure of it is not yet forthcoming. When
that authority is forthcoming, the amount voted now
will be deducted from that other amount and the
difference will be used from the appropriation
already made. (ASIDES).

I sometimes think, Mr. Chairman, that the way
to deceive hon. members is to tell them the plain
unvarnished facts of a particular case, because they
will not believe it and will be searching for motivation
where no motivation exists.
10.20 p.m.

If I were as clever as some hon. members
opposite, I would really devise, and I believe I could
succeed in doing it, a means of deceiving them, but
I really am not so clever andtherefore I have to give
them the facts of the case. I say this finally: when I
give them the facts of a particular case, they must
not think that I am trying to deceive them because
they will be flattering me above and beyond my
deserts. But these are the facts as Ihave given them,
and we regret them and it cannot happen again
because the situation will be vastly different.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: I am going to ask the
hon. member one question. I am going to ask him
to ask the Attorney General whether the $248,000
having been put in the Statutory column of the
Estimates has any effect whatever. ( Hon.
J. C. TUDOR: None.) Exactly, and therefore you do
not have to say that will lapse. It is as if it was never
voted. It is not there, because you cannot say that it
is in a\Statute and then when youlook to see what the
Statute is, you see a blank.


The question that this Resolution do now pass was put
and resolved in the affirmative without division.

Hon. J. C, TUDOR: Mr. Chairman, Ibegto move
that you do now report the passing of one Resolution
in Committee of Supply.

Hon. C. E, TALMA: I beg to second that.

The question was put and resolved in the affirmative without
division.

The CHAIRMAN reported, and Mr. SPEAKER resumed
the Chair and reported accordingly.


On separate motions of Hon. J. C. TUDOR, seconded
by Hon= C. E. TALMA, the Resolution passed in Commit-
tee was read a first and second time and agreed to.


GOVERNMENT BUSINESS CONCLUDED

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, the considera-
tion of that Resolution concludes Government Busi-
ness for today's sitting.

THE ADJOURNMENT

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, looking at to-
day's Notice Paper, it occurs to me that we have
only got three Resolutions for next week of no
particular urgency, it seems, and certainly no money
Resolutions, and I suggest that we could meet in
two weeks' time. That would give us time to clear
up all the other questions which are outstanding on
the Order Paper. Therefore, instead of moving the
adjournment of the House for one week, I will move
it for two weeks.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: I suggest to the Hon.
Leader of the House that we move the adjournment
for one week and move it for an earlier hour.
Nobody wants normally to sit down in here until
half-past ten. I would also like to appeal to the Hon.
Leader of the House again to go back to the old
practice of fixing the Order Paper now and not have
to send us during the week, additional things. In
short, when we come to the House we come pre-
pared to say: "We are going as far as down as this
and we are doing so-and-so", and only in the most
exceptional and unavoidable cases you send around
a policeman with additional things to be considered.

Mr. SPEAKER: If hon. members would just pre-
mit me to mention this in respect of today week and
the earlier hour, the Honourable Deputy Leader of
the Opposition and myself are engaged in a matter
which has to be concluded that day in the Supreme
Court because the Learned Judge is going on long
leave. I only mention that to hon. members. If I
have a duty to perform, I can only guarantee that I,
personally, will not be here.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: It was that that I had in
mind.

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: To oblige His Honour
the Speaker, of course, why not make it next
Wednesday then?

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: No, let us adjourn for two
weeks. I think the hon. member opposite will see
the wisdom of this. I beg to move that this House
do now adjourn until Tuesday, 14th May, 1968, at
12 o'clock (noon).

Sir GRANTLEY ADAMS: The hon. membermust
see that Private Members' Business is hanging fire
for too long. That West Indies Hospital Sweepstake
debate is holding up everything. Unless we will agree
to alter the hours for Questions and Private Members'
Business generally, or unless so much time will not
be taken up with the preliminary giving of notices
encroaching on Private Members' time, where will
we ever get?








1633


Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second the motion
of the Hon. Leader of the House.

The question that this House do now adjourn until Tuesday,
14th May, 1968, at 12 o'clock (noon), was put and resolved


in the affirmative without division, and Mr. SPEAKER
adjourned the House accordingly.


10.30 p.m.




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