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Group Title: Official gazette, Barbados
Title: The official gazette
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Title: The official gazette
Physical Description: v. : ill. ; 33-42 cm.
Language: English
Creator: Barbados
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Subject: Law -- Periodicals -- Barbados   ( lcsh )
Politics and government -- Periodicals -- Barbados   ( lcsh )
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Full Text










VOL. CI









Olre


*ffi+i l


(*leatt


PUBLISHED BY AUTHORITY

BRIDGETOWN, BARBADOS, 28TH JULY, 1966


TABLE OF CONTENTS
Gazette Notices
A Proclamation re Queen Elizabeth Hospital Act,1965 805
Appointment: L. V. II. Lewis, Administrative
Assistant to be Senior Personnel Officer
Service Commissions Department............... 801
(;rant of Commission in the Barbados Cadet Corps:
Mr. John Gline Bellamy to be Second
I lieutenant ....................................... 801.
Industrial Incentives re Fibre, Vinegar and Copra 801
Industrial Incentives re Flavouring extracts and
essences, cosmetics etc........................ 804
Probate Advertisement dated 22nd July, 1966..... 802, 803
Returns of Rainfall for 8th, 15th, 22nd May, 1966
and 6th June, 1966............................. 804, 806-808
Sugar Industry Agricultural Bank re loans to
Castle Grant and Redland Plantations....... 803
--------------
Ilouse of -\ssemblh Debltes for 5th -nd 12th October, 1965
Legal Supplement
(L.N. 94) Miscellaneous Controls (Control of Prices) (Amend-
ment) (No. 12) Order, 1966
(L.N. 95) Miscellaneous Controla (Control of Prices) (Amend-
ment) (No. 13) Order, 1966
(L.N. 96) Public Officers Loan and Travelling Allowances
(Amendment) Regulations, 1966
Act 1966-20: Queen Elizabeth Hospital Act, 1965

NOTICE NO. 598
GOVERNMENT NOTICES

Grant of Commission in the Barbados
Cadet Corps

His Excellency the Governor has been
pleased to make the following appointment in
the Barbados Cadet Corps with effect from
the 15th July, 1966:-

Mr. JOHN GLYNE BELLAMY to be
Second Lieutenant.

(M.P. 1591/T.1)


Appointment

L, V. H. Lewis, Administrative Assistant,
to be Senior Personnel Officer, Service Com-
missions Department with effect from 1st
July, 1966.


(M.P. 1515/39/3)


NOTICE NO. 599
THE INDUSTRIAL INCENTIVES ACT, 1963

(Section 6)

NOTICE

The Honourable Premier and Minister of
Finance pursuant to Section 6 of the Industrial
Incentives Act, 1963, hereby gives notice that
the Cabinet is about to be asked to consider
whether for the purposes of the abovemen-
tioned Act, Fibre, Vinegar, Copra, should be
approved products.

Any person interested in the manufacture
or importation of Fibre, Vinegar, Copra, who
objects to these products being declared ap-
proved products for the purposes of the In-
dustrial Incentives Act, 1963, should forward
to the Director, Economic Planning Unit, Of-
fice of the Premier, to reach him on or be-
fore 6th August, 1966, a statement in writing
setting forth the grounds of his objection.


x

\3 a~_,


NO. 60


PPPPP_












PROBATE ADVERTISEMENTS

PUBLIC NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that Applications have been made
for the following grants of Probate and Administration namely:-


PROBATE of the Will dated the 20th day of October, 1949 of ROBERT GUSTAVUS JORDAN
late of Church Street, Speightstown in the parish of St. Peter in this Island, who died
on the 28th day of February, 1966, by ADA REID, the sole Executrix named in the
Will of the said deceased.

PROBATE of the Will dated the 31st day of August, 1960 of ESTWICK ALWIN LEON CUM-
MINGS late of Free Hill, Black Rock in the parish of St. Michael in this Island, who
died on the 2nd day of February, 1966, by ALMA VERNETTA BREWSTER, the sole
Executrix named in the Will of the said deceased.

PROBATE of the Will dated the 30th October, 1965 of IDA PERCY WILLIAMS late of
Rhylstone Gardens in the parish of Christ Church in this Island, who died in England
on the 1st day of December, 1965, by JOHN MILTON WILLIAMS, the sole Executor
named in the Will of the said deceased.

PROBATE of the Will dated the 15th day of July, 1965 of KATHRYN MOWBRAY STOUTE
late of Enterprise Roadin the parish of Christ Church in this Island, who died on the
29th day of May, 1966, by GEORGE ALBERT STOUTE, the sole Executor named in
the Will of the said deceased.

PROBATE of the Will dated the 11th day of April, 1961 and the Codicil dated the 24th day
of May, 1961 of RHODA ELMORZENE WINTHROPE KELLMAN late of Sion Hill in
the parish of St. James in this Island, who died on the 13th day of January, 1964, by
IDA SYBIL KELLMAN and ARTHUR LISLE STUART, the Executors named in the
Will of the said deceased.

PROBATE of the Will dated the 8th day of April, 1963 of KATHLEEN LOUISE ALONE late
of "Bentley" in the parish of Christ Church in this Island, who died on the 10th day
of December, 1965, by GEORGE COLIN THOMAS, one of the Executors namedin the
Will of the said deceased.

LETTERS OF ADMINISTRATION to the Estate of RUPERT EGLAN or EGLON LEVI, late
of Brooklyn, New York in the United States of America, who died on the 27th day of
February, 1966, by MIRIAM AGATHA LEVI, next of kin of the said deceased.

LETTERS OF ADMINISTRATION to the Estate of TORRENCE VIVIAN AUSTIN late of
Flagstaff in the parish of St. Michael in this Island, who died on the 30th day of Sep-
tember, 1965, by OLWEN OVIDA AUSTIN, widow of the said deceased.


OFFICIAL GAZETTE


July 28, 1966










July 28, 1966 OFFICIAL GAZETTE


PROBATE ADVERTISEMENT Ccnt'd.


LETTERS OF ADMINISTRATION to the Estate of MAIZILENE BLADES late of Bayfield in
the parish of St. Philip in this island, who died on the 2nd day of March, 1962, by
JUNE KING next of kin of the said deceased.

AND UNLESS CAVEAT is lodged within fourteen days from the date of this Adver-
tisement with the Registrar of the Supreme Court through whom the abovenamed applica-
tions have been made, Probate or Administration will be granted accordingly.


Dated this 22nd day of July, 1966.

C. A. ROCHEFORD
Registrar (Ag.)


I


NOTICE NO. 588 (third publication)

The Sugar Industry Agricultural Bank
Act, 1943
To the creditors holding specialty liens against
Hedland Plantation.

TAKE NOTICE that we, the owners of the
above Plantation, are about to obtain a loan
of $48,000.00 under the provisions of the
above Act against the said Plantation in re-
spect of the Agricultural year 1966 to 1967.
Nomoneyhas been borrowed under the Agri-
cultural Aids Act, 1905 or the above Act in
respect of such year.
Dated this 14th day of July 1966.

CASTLE GRANT LTD.
Per:- A. P. COX
Attorney.


NOTICE NO. 5891 (third publication)
The Sugar Industry Agricultural Bank
Act, 1943

To the creditors holding specialty liens against
Castle Grant Plantation.

TAKE NOTICE thatwe, the owners of the
above Plantation, are about to obtain a loan
of $76,800.00 under the provisions of the above
Act against the said Plantation in respect of
the agricultural year 1966 to 1967. No money
has been borrowed under the Agricultural Aids
Act, 1905, or the above Act in respect of
such year.

Dated this 14th day of July 1966.

CASTLE GRANT LTD.
Per:- A. P. COX
Attorney.


OFFICIAL GAZETTE


July 28, 1966,









OFICA GAET Jl 8,16


RETURN OF RAINFALL AT CENTRAL AND DISTRICT
FOR THE WEEK ENDED 6TH JUNE, 1965


POLICE STATIONS


STATION
z Z
z z


Central Station .. .. .06 .18 .12 .09 .02 .47
District "A" Station .. .. .52 .14 .14 .80
S"B" Station .. .. .29 .17 .45 .10 1.01
"C" Station .. .13 .33 .08 .02 .56
Four Roads Station
District "D" Station .. .. .14 .50 .50 .13 1.27
"E" Station .13 .22 .35 .10 .80
Crab Hill Station .. .. .01 .05 .06 .06 .18
District "F" Station .. .. .02 .04 .11 .11 .28
Belleplaine Station .. .. .15 .03 .15 .04 .37
Holetown Station .. .. .06 .45 .40 .10 1.01


AVERAGE .. .04 .15 .24 .20 .05 .68



Police Headquarters,

Bridgetown,
Bridgetown W. A. FARMER
Dated 9th June, 1965 For Commissioner of Police.


NOTICE NO. 600

THE INDUSTRIAL INCENTIVES ACT, 1963


(Section 6)

NOTICE

The Honourable Premier and Minister of
Finance pursuant to Section 6 of the Industrial
Incentives Act, 1963, hereby gives notice that
the Cabinet is about to be asked to consider
whether for the purposes of the abovemen-
tioned Act, Flavouring extracts and essences,


Cosmetics, perfumery and ToiletLotions and
Fruit Juices should be approved products.

Any person interested in the manufacture
or importation of Flavouring extracts and es-
sences, cosmetics, perfumery and toilet lo-
tions and fruit juices, who objects to these
products being declared approved products
for the purposes of the Industrial Incentives
Act, 1963, should forward to the Director
Economic Planning Unit, Office of the Pre-
mier, to reach him on or before 6th August,
1966, a statement in writing setting forth the
grounds of his objection.


OFFICIAL GAZETTE


July 28, 1966












By His Excellency Sir John
Montague Stow, Knight Commander of
the Most Distinguished Order of Saint
Michael and Saint George, Knight Com-
mander of the Royal Victorian Order,
Governor and Commander-in-Chief in
and over the Island of Barbados.

&c., &c., &c.


J. M. STOW
Governor.

A PROCLAMATION


WHEREAS a Bill for a Queen Elizabeth Hospital Act, 1965, was passed by the
General Assembly without amendment on the 31st day of August, 1965, and by the Senate
without amendment on the 9th day of September, 1965:


AND WHEREAS the said Bill was on the llth day of September, 1965, presented
to the Governor for his assent pursuant to paragraph 30 of Schedule 2 to the Barbados
(Letters Patent Consolidation) Order, 1964:


AND WHEREAS the Governor on the 11th day of September, 1965, pursuant to
sub-paragraph (1) of the said paragraph, declared that he reserved the said Bill for the
signification of Her Majesty's pleasure:


AND WHEREAS it is provided by sub-paragraph (3) of the said paragraph that a
Bill reserved for Her Majesty's pleasure shall become a law on the date upon which Her
Majesty's assent, given through a Secretary of State, is signified by Proclamation pub-
lished in the Official Gazette of the Island:


NOW THEREFORE IT IS HEREBY PROCLAIMED that Her Majesty's assent to
the said Bill has been given through the Secretary of State for the Colonies.

Given under my hand and the
Public Seal of the Island of Barbados at
Bridgetown, this twenty-fifth day of
July, one thousand nine hundred and six-
ty-six and in the fifteenth year of Her
Majesty's Reign.


GOD SAVE THE QUEEN


, 805


July 28, 1966


OFFICIAL GAZETTE









OFIILGAET tly2.16
uuu


RETURN OF RAINFALL AT CENTRAL AND DISTRICT POLICE STATIONS
FOR THE WEEK ENDED 8TH MAY, 1966


STATION 1 z
2 H
< a o





Central Station .. .. .07 .07
District "A" Station .. .. .02 .05 .08 .15
B "B" Station .. .. .16 .02 .08 .01 .27
"C" Station .. .. .05 .04 .09 .18

Four Roads Station
District "D" Station .. .. .21 .03 .33 .02 .01 .02 .62
t "E" Station .. .. .04 .10 .22 .36
Crab Hill Station .. .. .18 .18
District "F" Station .. .. .07 .05 .03 .07 .22
Belleplaine Station .. .. .02 .02 .02 .06
Holetown Station .. .. .12 .03 .15 .30


AVERAGE .. .07 .05 .10 .01 .01 .24



Police Headquarters,

Bridgetow,, G. C. SPRINGER


OFFICIAL GAZETTE


July 28, 1966


Da~td 16th May, 1966


For Commissioner of Police.













RETURN OF RAINFALL AT CENTRAL AND DISTRICT POLICE STATIONS
FOR THE WEEK ENDED 15TH MAY, 1966






STATION E
z Z
[ H .1 4E H



Central Station .. .. .02 .06 .07 .15
District "A" Station .. .. .08 .02 .10
S"B" Station .. .. .03 .07 .07 .17
S "C" Station .. .. .05 .18 .23
Four Roads Station
District "D" Station .. .. .04 .11 .03 .18
"E" Station .. .. .07 .05 .12

Crab Hill Station .. .. .05 .03 .05 .13
District "F" Station .. .. .10 .01 ,04 .15
Belleplaine Station .. .. .26 .01 .27
Holetown Station .. .. .05 .10 .15


AVERAGE .. .06 .02 .02 .03 .03 .01 .17


Police Headquarters,
Bridgetown,
Dated 20th May, 1966


G. C. SPRINGER
For Commissioner of Police.


July 28, 1966


OFFICIAL GAZETTE













RETURN OF RAINFALL AT CENTRAL AND DISTRICT POLICE STATIONS
FOR THE WEEK ENDED 22ND MAY, 1966




>.-4

STATION 0





Central Station .. .. -- .12 .02 .08 .08 .30
District "A" Station .. .. .03 .07 .16 .04 .08 .38
"B" Station .. .. .01 .11 .05 .05 .34 .11 .67
"C" Station .. .. .04 .12 .10 .49 .65 .09 1.49

Four Roads Station
District ''D" Station .. .. .02 .38 .41 .10 .14 1.05
S "E" Station .. .. .09 .28 .10 .02 .24 .02. .75

Crab Hill Station .. .. .09 .07 .01 .55 .16 .23 1.11
District "F" Station .. .. .13 .27 .03 .21 .06 .70
Belleplaine Station .. .. .43 .09 .08 .51 .06 1.17
Holetown Station .. -.02 .05 .20 .02 .09 .38


AVERAGE .. .01 .03 .13 .16 .15 .22 .10 .80


Police Headquarters,
Bridgetown,
Dated 31st May, 1966


C. C. SPRINGER
For Commissioner of Police.


Government Printing Office.


OFFICIAL GAZETTE


July 28, 1966













THE






House of Assembly Debates





(OFFICIAL REPORT)


SECOND SESSION OF 1961-66


HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY


Tuesday, 5th October, 1985.

Pursuant to the adjournment, the House of Assembly
met at 2.30 o'clock p.m. today.

PRESENT

His Honour J. E. T. BRANCKER, Q.C., (Speaker);
Mr. W. A. CRAWFORD, Mr. L. E. SMITH, J.P.; Mr.
F. C. GODDARD; TIon. C. E. TALMA, (Minister of
Health, Housing, Local Government and Community
Development); Hon. J. C. TUDOR, M.A. (Minister of
Education); Mr. S. E. SEAL EY; Mr. W. R. COWARD;
Mr. R. St.C. WEEKS, J.P.; Mr. W. R. LOWE; Iis
Honour E. L. CARMICHAEL, J.P., (Deputy Speaker);
Mr. G. V. HATSON, (Chairman of Committees); Hon.
N. W. BOXILL, (tlinister of Communications and Works);
Mr. J. B. YEARWOOD and Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS,
(Minister of Trade and L abour).
Prayers were read,


MINUTES

Mr. SPEAKER: I have the honour to inform the House
that the Minutes of the meeting of the 31st August, 1965,
have been duly circulated amongst hon. members, and un-
less there be any objection, those Minutes will be con-
firmed. (After a Pause). There being no objection, I de-
clare the Minutes of that meeting duly to be confirmed.

Mr. MOTTLEY and Mr. LYNCH entered the House
and took their seats.,

DOCUMENTS

Mr. SPEAKER: I have the honour to inform the House
that I am in receipt of the following Documents:-

A letter dated llth September, 1965, and received on
that date, from His Excellency the Governor requesting
me to inform this Chamber of his departure for London on
Sunday, 12th September, 1965.
Mr. HUSBANDS entered the House and took his seat.
Mr. SPEAKER: I also have the honour to inform the
House that I have received from the Auditors of the Sugar
Industry Agricultural Bank a letter dated 31st August, 1965,
which reads as follows:-

31st August, 1965.
His Honour J. E. T. Brancker, Q.C. M.P.:
Speaker,


House of Assembly,
Barbados.

Sir,

We are enclosing under separate cover a copy of the
accounts of the Sugar Industry Agricultural Bank for
the year ended 30th June, 1965, duly signedby Mr. A.
B. Way, the auditor appointed by the House of Assem-
bly for that year.

Mr. A. B. Way has, however, now retired as Senior
Partner of this firm and has been replaced by Mr. J.
Milliken who is prepared to offer his services as
Auditor to the Bank under the same terms.

We should be grateful, therefore, if the House of
Assembly will consider appointing Mr. Milliken as
Auditor of the Sugar Industry Agricultural Bank for
the year commencing 1st July, 1965, under Section 4
(7) (1) of the Act 1943-15 at a remuneration of 125.

Yours faithfully

FITZPATRICK GRAHAM & C0.

As stated in their letter, they have submitted a copy of
the Report and Accounts of the Sugar Industry Agricultural
Bank to the 30th June, 1965.

I also have the honour to inform the House that I have
received the following:-

The Accounts and Statements for the month of Decem-
ber, 1964, as prepared by the Accountant General.

The Accounts and Statements for the month of January,
1965, as prepared by the Accountant General.

PAPERS LAID

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the Hon.
Premier and Minister of Finance, I am commanded to lay
the following:-

The Diplomatic Privileges (United Nations and Inter-
national Court of Justice) (Amendment) Order, 1965.

The Civil Establishment (General) (Amendment) (No.6)
Order, 1965.

The Ckstoms Duties (Materials for use in the manu-
facture of Mattresses, Pillows, Divans and Upholstered
Furniture) Order, 1965.

The Customs Act, (Prohibited Imports) (Fresh Fruit
and Vegetables) Order, 1965.


__ I









1041


Statement showing Net Qistoms and Excise Receipts
for five months ended 31st August, 1965.

Statement of sums of money paid over to the Account-
ant General by the Commissioner of Police during the
Quarter ended 30th September, 1964.

On behalf of the Hon. Minister of Agriculture and
Fisheries, I am commanded to lay the following:

Half-yearly Reports of the Registrar of Friendly So-
cieties for the period ended 31st December, 1961 to the
period ended 30th June, 1965.

Statement in regard to expenditure of the grant made
to the Barbados General Agricultural Society under
Head 47 Item 1.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, I am commanded to
lay a statement showing the sums advanced to the Post-
master General for payment of Money Orders, the amounts
repaid to the Accountant General, and the amounts due by
the various Post Offices to the 30th June, 1965.

GOVERNMENT NOTICES

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, again, on behalf of
the Hon. Premier and Minister of Finance, I beg to give
notice of a Resolution to approve "The Cvil Establishment
(General) (Amendment) (No. 6) Order, 1965.

On my own behalf, I beg to give notice of a Resolution
to approve the Compulsory acquisition by the Crown of a
parcel of land at St. Simon's in the Parish of St. Andrew.

On behalf of the Hon. Minister of Agriculture and Fish-
eries, I beg to give notice of a Resolution to approve the
Order entitled "The Sugar Industry (Rehabilitation, Price
Stabilisation and Labour Welfare) Order, 1965."

Again, on behalf of the Hon. Premier and Minister of
Finance, I beg to give notice of the following:-

A Bill to amend the Customs Act, 1962.

A Bill to make provision for the orderly and progress-
ive development of land in both Urban and Rural areas
and to preserve and improve the amenities thereof, for
the grant of permission to develop land and for other
powers of control over the use of land; to confer ad-
ditional powers in respect of the acquisition and de-
velopment of land for planning; and for purposes con-
nected with the matters aforesaid.

A Bill to amend the Executive Committee (Vesting of
Property and Transfer of Functions) Act, 1964.

Again, on behalf of the Hon. Minister of Agriculture
and Fisheries, I beg to give notice of a Bill to amend the
Fisheries Regulation Act, 1904.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, I beg to give
notice of a Bill to amend the Wages Council Act, 1955.

REPLIES LAID

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, I beg to give notice
that the Oral Reply to Parliamentary Question No. 55/1964,
asked by the hon. senior member for St. Thomas, is now
ready.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, I beg to give
notice that the Oral Reply to Parliamentary Question No.
43/1964, asked by the hon. junior member for St. Joseph,
is now ready.

PRIVATE MEMBERS' NOTICES

Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Speaker, I beg to give notice of
a Bill to repeal the West Indies Hospital Funds Limited,
Act, 1964.


QUESTIONS

Mr. SPEAKER: Question standing in the name of the
hon. Junior member for the Qty:

Mr. LYNCH: Mr. Speaker,

To enquire of the appropriate Minister:-

1. Will the Minister state whether all the instalments
payable by the West Indies HospitalFunds Limited have been
paid into the Treasury?

2. If the answer to No. 1 is in the negative, will the
Minister state what are the instalments now remaining due?

3. Will the Minister state what steps he proposes to
take to enforce the payment of such instalments as may be
still outstanding?

Mr. SPEAKER: Question standing in the name of the
hon. Junior member for St. John:

Mr. YEARWOOD: Mr. Speaker:- To enquire of the
Appropriate Minister:-

1. Is the Minister aware that on the 3rd September,
1965, a female corpse remained outside the doors of the
Public Mortuary and could not be admitted thereto owing to
the absence of the officer in charge of the said Mortuary?

2. Will the Minister see to it that hours of duty at the
said Mortuary be so arranged that the admission of dead
bodies thereto may be achieved at any hour of the day or
night if such admission be necessary at any time?

Mr. SPEAKER: Question standing in the name of the
hon. senior member for the Cty.

Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Speaker,

To enquire of the appropriate Minister:-

1. Will the Minister state what moneys have been
spent upon the Hilton Hotel Project to date?

2. Will the Minister state whether the loan to finance
the said project has yet been raised?

3. If the answer to No. 2 is in the negative, will the
Minister state from what source of revenue the project
has been financed up to now?
2.55 p.m.

Mr. CARMI .AEL: Mr. Speaker, I beg, to give notice
of the following questions:-

To enquire of the appropriate Minister:

1. Is the Government aware that several anomalies exist
in respect of the determination of the rateable values of
properties in the Northern parishes of this Island, par-
ticularly in the parish of Saint James?

2. Will Government consider the advisability of obtaining
the services of an expert to correct any such anomalies,
and generally to revise the system of the valuation of
properties throughout the Northern parishes?

To enquire of the appropriate Minister:
1. Is Government aware that many subsidiary and
tenantry roads throughout the Northern parishes of the
Island particularly in the parish of Saint James are in a
very bad state of disrepair?

2. Is Government aware that these roads accommodate
properties of persons in the Northern parishes from
whom the Northern District Council derives a considerable
amount of income by reason of payment of their taxes?

3. Will Government set about the repairing of these
roads without further delay?












To enquire of the Appropriate Minister:-

Is Government aware that the accommodation for
legal practititioners at District "D" Court in the parish
of Saint Thomas is very unsatisfactory and causes great
inconvenience both to the said practititioners and to the
officers of the Court?

2. Will Government remedy this state of affairs as soon
as possible?

To enquire of the Appropriate Minister:-

Is Government aware that there are too few cement
stuffbins in the Thorpes Housing Area in the parish of Saint
James and that the existing ones in the said area are im-
properly sited, having regard to the proximity thereto of
the homes of the residents of the said area?

2. Is Government aware that the Northern District Council
has made representation to the Central Government about
this matter?

3. Will Government take steps to correct this state of
affairs?

Mr. BATSON: Mr. Speaker, I beg to give notice of the
following question:-

To enquire of the appropriate Minister:

Is Government aware that the Uniform long blue pants,
tunic and helmet now worn by Policemen on duty especially
during the Summer needs changing in this tropical country?

2. Is the Minister also aware that the present Uniform
now worn by Policemen only suits Ceremonial Occasions?

3. If the answers to the above are in the affirmative, will
the Minister go into the matter with a view to changing the
uniform of the said Policemen ha\ ing regard to the tropical
conditions in this Island?
BILLS READ A FIRST TIME
On the motion of lion. J. C. TUll)fl~, seconded by
Hon. C. E. TA4L.fA, a Bill to amend the Customs -lct,
1952, was read a first time.

On the motion of Hon. J. C. TUDOR, seconded
by Hon. C. E. TALM4, a Bill to make provision for the
orderly and progressive development of land in both
Urban and Rural areas and to preserve and improve the
amenities thereof, for the grant of permission to develop
land and for other powers of control over the use of land;
to confer additional powers in respect of the acquisition
and development of land for planning; and for purposes
connected with the matter aforesaid, was read a first time.

On the motion of Hon. J. C. TUDOR, seconded by
Hon. C. E. TALMA, a Bill to amend the Executive Com-
mittee (Vesting of Property and Transfer of Functions)
Act, 1964, was read a first time.

On the motion of Hon.' C. TUDOR, seconded by
Hon. C. E. TALMA, a Bill to amend the Fisheries
Regulation .4ct, 1904, was read a first time.

On the motion of Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS, seconded
by Hon. N. W. BOYILL, a Bill to amend the Wages
Council Act, 1955 was read a first time.

Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move that a
Bill to repeal the West Indies Hospital Funds Limited Act,
1964, be now read a first time.

Mr. GODDARD: I beg to second that.


The question was put and resolved in the affirmative
without division.


APPOINTMENT OF Rev. F. A. CAYLESS
AS CHAPLAIN

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I believe it is true
that the acting appointment of the Chaplain expired on the
30th September. I also believe that it had been the Intention
of the former Leader of the House to have consultations
with representatives of the other Parties of the Assembly
on this matter of the appointment of the Chaplain. I would
like to say that the majority Party not only has no objection
to the appointment of the Chaplain who has been acting,
but willingly supports his nomination, and I therefore,
formally beg to move that the Reverend F. A. Cayless be
appointed as Chaplain of this House as from 1st October,
1965.

Mr. MILLER: I beg to second the motion of the Leader '
of the House.


The question was put and resolvedinthe affirmative
without division.

3.05 p.m.

Mr. J. MILLIKEN APPOINTED AUDITOR

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I now beg to move
that Mr. J. Milliken be appointed Auditor of the Sugar In-
dustry Agricultural Bank for the year commencing 1st
July, 1965, at a remumeration of 125 per annum.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.

The question was put and resolved in the affirmative
without division,

QUESTION TIME
RETAIL PRICES OF GOODS

Mr. SPEAKER: It now being Question Time, the Reply
to Question No. 43, asked by the hon. Junior member for St.
Joseph is, I am advised, now ready.

Mr. SMITH: To enquire of the Appropriate Minister:

Will the Minister state:

(a) what were the retail prices of goods imported
from Canada into this Island just immediately before the
fall in the exchange rate of the Canadian dollar in 1962?

(b) what have been the retail prices of the same
goods since then?

(c) what have been the average handling costs of
goods from ship to shore and delivery from shed, since
the Deep Water Harbour came into operation?

(d) what was the average handling costs of goods
from ship to shore and delivery before the operation of the
said Deep Water Harbour?

(e) what are the retail prices of goods exported
from this Island to other Islands of the West Indies and
British Guiana?

(f) what are the retail prices of those goods in the
Countries named above to which they are exported?

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, the Replies are
as follows:-

"It is not possible to provide information on the re-
tail prices for goods imported from Canada...."

Mr. SMITH: I cannot hear the Hon. Minister.

Hon. A. DeC. EDWARDS: The replies are as follows:-














1. It is not possible to provide information on the retail prices of all goods imported from
Canada immediately prior to and since the devaluation of the Canadian dollar. However, the prices of a
number of articles are given as Appendix I to this reply. The information indicates that In some cases
prices have risen or have been reduced or have remained the same.


2. The average handling cost of goods from ship to shore covering stevedoring, (including
tallying and watching) cargo handling and harbour dues vary between $11.25 and $12.00 per freight ton de-
pending on the amount of cargo brought by the ship. Of these costs, handling charges are fixed at $6.00 per
ton and tonnage dues are fixed at 30 cents. The stevedoring charges vary according to the size of the vessel.
the type of cargo and the quantity. It has been established that the stevedoring charges tend to decrease as
the volume of cargo handled increases.

There is no charge for delivery of goods to the consignee.


3. The average handling cost of goods from ship to shore prior to the operation of the Deep
Water Harbour was $11.37 per freight ton.

It is not possible to give a break-down of this figure since the only static charge at that time was
tonnage dues of 30 cents. The other charges represented stevedoring, lighterage, warehousing, overtime etc.

There was no specific charge for delivery of goods to the consignee.

It should be mentioned that despite increases in wage rates varying between 35% and 68% since
the Deep Water Harbour commenced operations in 1961, the cost of handling cargo has not increased to any
appreciable extent over the handling charges which existed prior to 1961.

4. Information on the local prices of commodities exported from Barbados to other West
Indian Islands and British Guiana is attached as Appendix II.

5. The retail prices in the West Indian Islands and British Guiana of the items mentioned in
Appendix II are not known.






APPENDIX I
RETAIL PRICES OF GOODS IMPORTED FROM CANADA

(A & B) A R


Retail Price Present
Item Unit before May Retail

1962 Price


Paint Brushes ..

,1 9
,, ,,

Ias h


1) *I
5I .9



9I I) I.

5, II '.

IIo
Wash ..
Arborite Sheets ,,
Canvas .. ,.


Duck 6-on, ..
,, 8-oz. ,,
\White Pine IXl0 ft.
,, ,, lx 8 ,
Spruce ,, ..
Fir ..
Shingles


HARDWARE
1" each
1!" ,,
2
2
2!4' 1,,

3"
4"
/211 ,,
1" ''
1!P2" ,,
2'
,,
2!/2" ,,
3"
41
711
Sq. ft,
2"' Yd.
14"

16" t

Ft.



Bundle
Bundle


S $ I $


50
.63
.78
1.50
1.76
2.96
.36
.40
.52
.70
1.08
1.42
2.25
1.00
1.00
1.32
3.20
3.25
1.19
1.37
.35
.37
.30
.31
6.10


.55
.70
.90
1.60
1.90
3.20
.10
.15
.60
.75
1.15
1.50
2.35
1.05
1.00
1.25
3.20
3.35
1.25
1.50
.321/2
.35q
.31
331/
5.40










1044


APPENDIX I Concluded


Item


Shirts (Gents)
,, ,,




Briefs ,, .

Cotton Piece Goods



11 I) 11
,, ,, ,,
o 11 11
,, I,
Footwear (Ladies)





(Girls) ..
,, (Boys)..

Hats (Gents)
Caps ,,
Bedsheets ..



Potatoes.
Oats ..
Pollard .. .
Peas-Green Whole
Peas-Yellow Split
Fish-Salted
Onions ..

Cornmeal .. .
Sardines 3 / oz tin ..
Bloaters ..

PORK -SALTED
Lips ..
Finns ..
Neckbones
Snouts ..
Piblets ..
Heads ..
Tails ..
Feet ..
Ileadskins.. .

CANNED VEGETABLES

Carrots 15-oz tin
Beet 15-oz tin
Mixed Vegetables 15-oz tin
Corn 15-oz tin
Peas ,, ,,

\hisky 26-oz bottle ..


,,t
pair
to
Yd.
1,


,,
,,11
,,
pair
'I


,,t
19



each
,,
,,
FOODSTUFFS

Ib
,,1
,,
pt.
pt.
lb.
,,t

lb.
each
lb.



lb.


,I
,,
I,,
,,1
It

,II
,,11



each



to
91


9.00
12.75
13.35
13.50
16.50
1.50
1.90
.50
.52
.75
.84
1.48
1.95
5.75
6.00
6.25
6.50
6.75
5.25
7.25
7.25
6.15
3.95
5.95



.06 to 11
.10
.07
.16 to 20
.18 to 20
.42
.16 to 20


Present
Retail
Price

$



9.00
12.75
13.35
13.50
16.50
1.50
1.90
.50
.52
.80
.85
1.44
1.95
5.50
5.75
6.25
6.42
6.75
5.75
7.25
7.75
4.80
3.65
5.95



.06 to
.11
.09 to
.16 to
.18 to 20
.52
.14 to 20

.12!"
.17
.40



.35
.42
.24
.50
.50

.50
.28
.30



.31
.31
.43
.38
.38

7.00


. 11.:
.19 &
.28 &


.36
.47
.27
.52
.47

.50
.30
.33



.29
.29
.41
.39
.39

7.50











APPENDIX H

DOMESTIC EXPORTS TO OTHER WEST INDIAN TERRITORIES AND BRITISH
GUIANA AND PRESENT LOCAL RETAIL PRICES OF SAME


Item Description Retail Price


xaru
Vegetables


Cigarettes
,, "

9, "

Gravel
Crushed Stones ..
,, ,, ,
1g m s
Building materials


,,. ,,
Coconut oil
Gasolene .. .
,, .. ..

Diesel Oil
Hydrogenated Oils &
Cordials & Liqueurs


Fats


,, ,, ,, "
Ready to Wear Garments ..
,, ,, ,, ,
,, ,, ,, ,, "

Hats & Caps ..
,, ,, .
Stockings & Hose
,1 ,, ,, "
Bags & Sacks for packing
Crude Minerals ..
China Ware, Porcelain &
Earthenware .. .
,, ,, ,
,, ,, ,, ,,


,,

Metal




Sugar


F s
Fixtures &


,, I,

Furnishings


5, ,,
,, ~ g ,


enware: Casserole
Dishes
,, Ash Trays
,, Hanging
Flower Pots
,, Vases
,, Lamp Bases
shings: Table & 4


Chairs
Chairs
Bath Stools
Unrefined (Dark Crystal)
,, (White ,, )


Earth


Furni


T J


Yams
Sweet Potatoes
Eddoes
Bristol Pkge. of 10
,, ,, ,, 20
Anchor ,, ,, 10
,, ,, ,, 20

Size /2" (per load of 3 tons)
,, W'(,, ,, ,, ,, ,,)
,, 1 ( ,, ,, ,, ,, ,,)
Asbestos-4x8x 3/16'
(Corrugated)
Asbestos- 4x:8x3/16'
(Flat)
Fibrolite
Fverite 6X2%'(Corrugated,
,, 7x 2,/2
,, 8x2%' ,,
,, 9x2 ,,
S -10X2%' ,,
Cement (Bag of 98 lb.)



Premium Grade(coloured
pink

Soya Bean Oil
Falernum
,, (Liqueur)
Skirts (of knitted fabric)
Vests (Men's) ,, ,,
Underpants(Mens) of
knitted fabric)
Hats (Ladies Straw)
Caps (Cloth)
Stockings (Ladies)
Hose (Gents)
Bags (40"x20")
Limestone (per ton)


,, $1.20
,, $ 3.50
,, $ 2.50
,, .85 pair
,, $ 1.05
each
to $ 3.00


$ 5.00 ,, $16.00 each
$ 1.00 ,, $14.00 ,,


$10.00
$ 1.50
$ 7.00


$12.00
$22.00
$20.00


$100.00 per set
$22.00 each
$20.00 & $25.00 each
.10% per lb
.13 ,, ,,


DOMESTIC EXPORTS TO WEST INDIAN ISLANDS INCLUDING FRENCH GUIANA
AND DUTCH GUIANA

Item Description Retail Price


Poultry ..
Sheep ..
Lambs ..
Milk & Cream


Alive
,, for food
,i ,,1 t


.35 & ,40 each
.26 per lb
.32 ,, ,,


$ .51 perlb
.07 ,, ,,
.05 ,, ,,
.07 ,, ,,
.24 per pkg.
.48 ,, ,,
.22 ,, ,,
.38 ,, ,,
$ 3.00 per ton
$ 9.12 ,, ,,
$ 8.00 ,, ,,
$ 6.86 ,, ,,

$ 9.24 per sheet

$ 8.64 ,, ,,
$ 6.80 ,, ,,
$ 4.77 ,, ,,
$ 5.52 ,, ,,
$ 6.20 ,, ,,
$ 7.02 ,, ,,
$ 7.77 ,, ,,
$ 2.30 per bag
.37 per pint'
.70 per gallon

.78 ,, ,,
.61 ,, ,,
.35 per lb.
$ 3.20 per gallon
$ 9.50 ,, ,,
$ 1.75 to $1.95 each
.90 ,, $1.35 ,,


$ 1.00
$ 1.00
$ 1.25
.75
.85
.32
$ 2.50











APPENDIX H Continued

EXPORTS TO THE WEST INDIAN ISLANDS


Item


Eggs
Honey ..
Crustacea & Malluscs
fresh, chilled, frozen
Fish, fish products & fish
preparations in airtight


containers
Macaroni

Spaghetti
Vermicelli
Noodles
Biscuits
t,
Other Bakery
Beans


Products


areas .. ..
Vegetables



Sugar
,, .. .. ..
Molasses

Confectionery ..
Spices ..
Pepper..
Ginger ..
Hay and Fodder, green or
dry..
Oil Seed Cake & Meal
& Other Vegetable Oil
residues
,, ,, ,
Meal

Food Waste & Prepared
Animal Feed

11 11 ""


Margarine
Lard .. .. .
Baking Powder
Aerated & Mineral Waters
,, ,, ,, ,,
Other non-aloholio
Beverages
Beer
Rum (not exceeding the
strength of proof)

Rum (not exceeding the
strength of proof)
Rum (not exceeding the
strength of proof)
Cigarettes ..




Gravel
Crushed Stones

1 9 .I


Description


In shell
10 oz. bottles

Shrimp


Flying Fish
Y lb package
1 ,, ,
1 ,, ,,
,,


Sweetened
Unsweetened

-

Yams
Sweet Potatoes
Eddoes
Unrefined (Dark Crystal)
,, (White Crystal)
Choice
Vacuum -Pan
Sugar

(Black)


Hay



Oil Seed Cake
Coconut Meal
Meat
Fish


Animal
,,11
,,

,,
,,
X,
,,
*,


Feed (Pig Starter)
,, ( ,, Grower)
,, (,, Ration)
,, (Sow ,, )
,, ( ,, Feed)
,, (Hog Finisher)
,, (Dairy ,, )
,, (Balanced Animal)


Ju- C
Coca -Cola


Banks
Rum
Sugar Cane Brandy


Liqueur Rum

Re-distilled
Bristol Pkge. 10
,, ,, 20
Anchor ,, 10
,, ,, 20

Size P'" (per load of 2!' tons)
3/,, ( ,, ,, ,, ,, ,,)
,, 1 ( ,, ,, ,, ,, ,, )
Is It 11 1 "t )


.15
.06
.12
..12


.12 & .13 per lb.
.11%&.13 ,,
.12 per lb.
.18 per lb.
.11% ,, ,,
.11 ,, ,,

.11 ,, ,,

.50 per lb
.51 ,, ,,
.40 ,, ,,
.09 & 10 bottle
.11 & 12 ,,


.25 per bottle
$9.60 per gallon
$10.50 per gallon


$10.20 per gallon

$10.50 ,, ,,
.24 per pkge.
.48 ,, ,,
.22 ,, ,,
.38 ,, ,,
$ 3.00 per ton
$ 9.12 ,, ,,
$ 8.00 ,, ,,
$ 6.86 ,, ,,


i


Retnil Price


.10 to .12 each
.50 ,, .54 ,,

$1.40 per lb.



.08 each
.20 ,
.38 ,,
.21 ,
.21 ,,

.44 & .48 lb.
.31 & .39 ,,

.45 per lb.

.07 ,, ,,
.05 ,, ,
.07 ,, ,,
.10%,, ,,
.13 o, ,,
$1.00 per gallon
.13% ,, ,,
.56 to 66 lb.
$1.25 per lb.
$1.25 ,, ,,
$1.02 ,, ,,

.12 ,, ,,









1047

APPENDIX n Concluded

DOMESTIC EXPORTS TO WEST INDIAN ISLANDS INCLUDING FRENCH GUIANA
AND DUTCH GUIANA


Item Description Retail Price


Iricks


Crude Minerals
Other motor spirits &
blending Agents -
Gasolene

Coconut Oil
Carbonic Gas
Other inorganic Acids
,, ,, ,
Pure Alcohol
Methylated Spirits ..
Other Organic Compounds
Paints & Enamels ..

Other Prepared Paints
Pay Hum and other
Toilet \\aters
11

Cosmetics ..








'lard 'oap ..
Printing Paper
IHaus & Sacks for Packing
Bricks



Metal Fixtures &
Furnishing
,, ,, ,,

Vests & Pants
,, ,, ,,
Stockings & Hose
,, ,, ,,
Skirts
Underwear..
Shirts

Vest & Pants

Underwear


Outerwear
Candles of Tallow

Biscuits (soda)
Animal feed.. ..
Margarine .. .. ..
Soap .. ..
Sugar confectionery
Beverages
JU -C ..
Coke ..
Rum .. .. ..


Clay Size 4%x2'2x9" (Solid)
,, (Perforated) according to
size
Limestone (per ton)




Premium Grade (coloured pink)

Liquid
Nitric Acid
Hydrochloric Acid


Acetic Acid
Paint Emulsion


Bay Rum

Citrolene
Limolene
Shampoo
Hand Lotion
Vanishing Cream
Alp-Aire
After Shave Lotion
Perfumes (Men & Women)
Colognes (Men & Voren)
Hair Pomade
21' lb. bars

Bag (10'x20')
Clay Size 42X2YX9" (Solid)
(Perforated) according to
size

Furnishings: Table & 4 Chairs
Chairs
Bath Stools
Vests (of knitted fabric) Men's
Underpants ,, ,, ) ,
Stockings (Ladies)
Iose (Gents)
Of knitted fabric
Ladies Panties of Knitted fabric
Not of knitted fabric (dress)
t ,, ,i s, (sports)
Other than knitted
Pants (Men's)
Other than knitted:
Panties (Ladies)
,, (Girls)


I .12 each


.09 to 26 each
$ 2.50 to $3.00


.70 per gallon
.78 ,, ,,
.37 per pint
.22 per lb.
$ 3.00 per pint
.72 ,, ,,
$ 2.64 ,, ,,
.45 ,, ,,
.30 ,, ,
$ 9.45 to $10.00 gal.
$10.50 ,,.$10.67

.45 and .55 bottle

.36 to .90 bottle
.80 and 90 bottle
.64 and $1.32 bottle
.64 ,, $1.20 ,,
.66 ,, $ .90 ,,
.42 ,, $1.05 ,,
1.53
$ 1.80 to $3.99 bottle
$ 1.68 & $3.00 ,,
.60 bottle
.54 & .56 bar

.32 each
.12 each


.09 to 26 each


$100.00 per set
$22.00 each
$20.00 & $25.00 each
.90 to $1.35 ,,
$ 1.00 to $1.20 ,,
.75 ,, .85 pair
.85 ,, $1.05 ,,
$ 1.75 & $1.95 each
.60 to $1.50 pair
$ 3.36 ,, $9.80 each
$ !2.80 ,, $6.30 ,,

$ 1.00 ,, $1.60 pair

$ 1.50 ,, $1.75 pair
$ .40 .65 ,,

.60 per lb.

$ .29 per Ib.
.10 ,, ,,
.63 ,, ,,
.56 per bar


.11 per bottle
.08 ,, ,,
$2.30 ,, 1% pt.









1048
1


Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, in view of the fact that I
could not hear the Hon. Minister quite plainly and I
take it that these Replies are very long would I be in
order to move that these Replies be set on the Order Paper
for discussion at the next meeting?

Mr. SPEAKER: Such would not now be in order, but the
Replies will be printed and circulated and the hon. member
may give notice of a motion to discuss any aspect of them
which he may feel worthy of discussion.

Mr. SMITH: Am I in order now or must I wait until
the next meeting?

Mr. SPEAKER: I would suggest to the Hon. member to
await the printing of the Replies.

Mr. SMITH: I think I am in order now to give notice
of my desire to do so.

Mr. SPEAKER: Will the hon. member indicate what he
proposes giving notice of now?

Mr. SMITH: I am giving notice that the entire Reply be
set on the Order Paper for discussion at the next meeting
of the House.

UNNECESSARY NOISE BY SOME MOTORISTS

Mr. SPEAKER: The next is the Reply to question No.
55 asked by the hon. senior member for St. Thomas.

Mr. BATSON: To enquire of the Appropriate Minister:

Is Government aware of the unnecessary noise
made by some motorists in tooting their horns in the
ity areas where the bulk of business is being carried
on.

Will Government initiate legislation allowing the
blowing of horns only in cases where an accident might
have occurred?

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, the Replies are
as follows:-

(a) No Sir.

(b) Existing legislation contained in Regulations
55(2) of the Motor Vehicles and Road Traffic
Regulations, 1952, as amended by Regulation 5
of the Motor Vehicle and Road Traffic (Amend-
ment) Regulations, 1954, is adequate to control
any unnecessary noise made by motorists in the
city area.
3.15 p.m.

PRIVATE MEMBERS' BUSINESS

RESOLUTION re SURGICAL FEES, etc.
AT THE HOSPITAL

Mr. SPEAKER: It is now the time for Private Members'
Business. The first Order of the Day under that Head stands
in the name of the Hon. Leader of the Opposition:- To re-
sume debate on a Resolution relating to the Surgical Fees,
Accommodation and Treatment Charges as set out in the
Schedule to "The Hospital (Fees) Regulatons, 1965." On
the last occasion when this matter was being discussed, on
the motion of the hon. senior member for the Oty seconded
by the Hon. Junior member for Christ Church, further
consideration was postponed. Does the Hon. Leader of the
Opposition propose to continue his address now?

Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Speaker, this is a matter which
has engaged the attention of this House for some time now,
and we feel that we have aired our views and expressed
them in respect of the Surgical Fees, Accommodation and
Treatment Charges, and so on, at the Hospital At least, I
am happy to say that since the question has been raised
here, the attempt to raise the fees in the Casualty has been
abandoned. It was agreed that the standard was set by the


previous Government and a fee was charged to the people
who received medicine and who were throwing it away. I
should like to say that there are people in this community
who, even if they have to pay for medicine, go from one
doctor to another and have the medicine changed. It is not
a question of people throwing away the medicine when
people are ill and they do notfeelany results when they go
to one doctor, they will go to another doctor. I find that no
longer has any attempt been made to charge the fee of 25
cents to people who go to the Casualty. On the other hand,
I must still say here and now in reply to the Hon. Minister
of Social Services, that I am not quite happy about what is
happening at the Radiological Department at the Hospital
from tie point of view that it is still very heart breaking to
persons who are unable to pay, when they have to go for
X-ray examinations, especially the type which would engage
the attention of the Radiologist, these people have to wait
for two or three months as against those persons who can
pay for their treatment. I have been reliably informed that
people who have the necessity for having these X-rays exam-
inations immediately performed, have been turned back
because of people who can afford to pay for their examina-
tions, and who can wait a little longer.

I feel that a matter of this sort should engage the atten-
tion of the Hon. Minister of Social Services and he should
see that the matter is put right. I must mention this, be-
cause I have been coming into contact with cases where
people go into the Hospital and occuply these rooms where
the medical men have to visit them and they have to pay
these charges and they have been discharged from these
rooms. I feel that this fee of five shillings per day has been
existing for many years and that charge should be raised.
When the argument is used about what is done in private
concerns, and so on, that is a different matter. When the
argument is used that people only go to this Department
of the Hospital because they are snobbish, I say that a lot
of people who go to these Wards do so because they cannot
get attention in the other wards. I drew it to the attention
of the Hon. Minister that when people want to get beds,
these beds are earmarked for doctors, and they have to
get the fees changed. It is my duty to defend those people
who cannot defend themselves in this matter, those people
who have sent me here to defend them. I feel that while the
fee of five shillings should be increased, this is not a pri-
vate Hospital, but it is a Hospital which is run with the
taxes collected from the people of this country. I feel that
while this jump to $10.00 has been made, an amount of five
dollars or $7.50 would have been quite adequate.

The Hon. Minister was courteous enough to show me
the $3.00 a day Ward at the Hospital and I suppose that I
could commend the Government for having done that. Since
I have been debating this question here, there has been a
lot of victimisation going on even among qualified men who
have had the courage to speak out about things which were
going on at the Hospital. I understand that the Government
had an investigation of this matter which has been going
on. can the Minister say now that it is not true to say that
with the shortage of medical practitioners on the staff of
the Hospital and the use of general practitioners on the
staff, certain people at the Hospital, because they did not
like the forthright and outspoken manner of certain young-
sters at the Hospital, as soon as they are out, they tried to
show that although you have a number of people who have
to be turned back from day to day at the Casualty they will
refuse to hire certain doctors?
3.25 p.m.

There are people who would like the Government to
connive with them in this manner and refuse to give em-
ployment, even though they would see that at 6 o'clock or
7 o'clock on evenings a number of people who had been
waiting at the Hospital Casualty from 8 o'clock inthe mor-
ning must be turned back. I do not think that Is good enough.

I feel that certain views have been expressed on all
sides of the House by hon. members since this matter has
been debated, and while the Hon. Minister who was then in
charge has been forthright and outspoken in this matter, we
have no right to amend the Regulations, because when they
come to this House we have to accept or reject them. As












has been rightly said, these Regulations need not have been
brought to this House; so it would be out of order for me to
move that these Regulations be considered null and void,
and therefore I can do nothing about them. When Regula-
tions are brought to this House, members must within
forty days reject them or they become law. There are other
Regulations which are only brought to the House as a matter
of courtesy, and I believe that these Regulations were
brought as a matter of courtesy; so lest anyone should
think that it is just a matter of blowing hot air and not try-
ing to do something about them, I must say that there is
nothing that we can do because these automatically became
law as soon as they were made.

We feel, Sir, that we have done our duty in this matter
by expressing our views, and on another occasion when
similar Regulations are brought up, we will have to ex-
press our views. We hope that the Minister in charge will
watch the working of these Regulations very carefully, and
whenever hardships might be effected upon people, he would
do whatever is possible to amend such Regulations, and re-
lieve those persons in the category who would feel these
Regulations the most, that is, those people who must try
to give their families some measure of relief through
Hospitalisation. Hospitalisation is something which every-
one in this world must expect at some time or other, and
therefore these Regulations at the Hospital must affect
every living being.

This motion which is to resume debate on a Resolution
relating to the surgical fees, accommodation and treatment
charges as set out in the Schedule to "The Hospital (Fees)
Regulations, 1965, has been debated over a period of three
months, and you would observe that I gave notice of my
intention to debate these Regulations; so there is no ne-
cessity to go further under the circumstances. I therefore
am asking leave to withdraw the motion. I feel that the de-
hate on these Regulations has done a certain amount of good
and has allowed the people at the Hospital to know that we
are watching from the floor of this House in the interest of
the entire community. As I have always said, the four
walls of this lovely building do not make a Hospital.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Speaker, before the hon.
member concludes the debate, I should like to draw to his
attention the fact that although I only assumed this
Ministry ............

Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Speaker, the Hon. Minister re-
plied to me already on this, and I am merely exercising the
right of final reply.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Speaker, my predecessor in
office was replying at the time when the time expired, and
the hon. member moved the postponement. As far as I re-
member that is how it went; so that he is perfectly right
to speak now. Is the hon. member speaking on his right at
this stage or on the wind up?

Mr. SPEAKER: There cannot be a direct question to
the Leader of the Opposition. The records disclose that
the then Minister of Health spoke on two different after-
noons; but if the present Hon. Minister of Health seeks to
speak also on this debate, it is known that there are cer-
tain Standing Orders whereby a Minister may reply to any-
thing critical of the Government. I take it that the hon.
senior member for Christ Church is opposing the request
that leave be granted to the Leader of the Opposition to
withdraw the Resolution, as the Hon. Minister wants to
reply on a matter critical of Government before the Reso-
lution is withdrawn.

Mr. WALCOTI: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker,
I would like to make my position clear. I am entitled to
speak on this matter, and I am going to exercise my right. I
was not in the House when it was debated. I had no op-
portunity to speak, and now that I have heard a speech on
this matter, I am going to exercise my right, and I Just
draw that to Your Honour's attention. There is nothing
in the Rules that precludes me from speaking.


Mr. SPEAKER: As to the point made by the hon. senior
member for Christ Church, Minister of Health, under
Standing Order No. 27(2) he may speak even after the In-
troducer of the motion has replied. As to the hon. senior
member for St. Peter, he has no right of reply or to speak
by reason of not being in this Chamber during earlier dis-
cussion of this Resolution.

Mr. WALOOTT: If a member is in the Chamber and
does not exercise his right to speak, he may not speak after
the Introducer replies, but as this is an open debate and
is not a motion to take a substantive decision, therefore
whenever the hon. member debates the question before the
debate closes, any member who has not spoken and did
not have an opportunity to do so, is entitled to speak. It is
not a Government motion or a motion to spend money. This
is a motion to debate the Regulations, and it is not yet
closed, and that is why I say I want to exercise the right
to which I am entitled. I am in the House now, it is being
debated and I am not responsible for the fact that it was
debated and I was not here. I am here today and I want
to exercise the right I have for the first time. I was
granted leave of absence for two months, and it Is quite
clear from the records that I was not here during the
debate.

Mr. SPEAKER: I do not agree that the fact that a
member has been granted leave of absence and a debate
starts before he was granted or whilst he was on -
leave, automatically entitles him, if the right of reply has
been finally exercised, to speak on the matter. I will say
that, in this particular instance, when the Hon. Leader of
the Opposition rose on the 24th August, he rose and moved
that further consideration be postponed, and the motion for
further consideration was duly seconded and passed; there-
fore that may not be regarded as the final speech, so far
as he is concerned.
3.35 p.m.

I do not however agree, nor do I accept what the hon.
senior member for St. Peter has suggested; otherwise he
would have the right to speak on his return simply because
he has been on leave.

Mr. WALCOTT: If you consider that an hon. member
acted honourably, that is to say, that he did not have an op-
portunity to enter a debate, but it was a debate which was
important and one which he considered he should speak on,
then, it was in Your Honour's position to do anything which
you could to accommodate the member.

I see from the Order Paper that the hon. senior mem-
ber for the City moved that the matter be postponed. Now,
today, the hon. member is big enough to say that it is within
your discretion as regards the closure of the debate.

Mr. SPEAKER: I do not regard it as discretionary on
my part, but as a matter for the indulgence of the House.

Mr. MOTTLEY: That is not correct.

Mr. SPEAKER: Has the hon. member risen on a point
of order?

Mr. MOTTLEY: I was speaking when the Hon.Mlnister
rose on a point of order. Why should I rise on a point of
order?

Mr. SPEAKER: As I understand it, the Hon. Leader of
the Opposition resumed his seat,


Mr. MOTTLEY: I merely sat down because the Hon.
Minister rose. Actually, what happened was this. I rose to
reply on the last occasion after apparently everybody had
spoken and the Hon.Minister had spokentoo.I rose to ex-
ercise my right to reply. During my debate, the time for
Private Members' Business expired and, as the time ex-
pired, I merely moved the motion that further considera-
tion of the debate be postponed. I could not go on speaking













then, and as I had not finished making my comments, I
moved that the debate be further postponed. I think Your
Honour would recall that.

Mr. SPEAKER: That is correct, but I am not accepting
that the hon. Leader of the Opposition is exercising his
right to reply. The Hon. Leader of the Opposition said that
on the last occasion after the time for Private Members'
Business had expired, he moved that further consideration
of the debate be postponed. I am not objecting at all to that.
What I am saying is this. Under the Rules of this House, an
Hon. Minister has the right to reply after any hon. member
has spoken. A Minister has that right even if no new ground
has been broken.

Rule 27 (2) states:

"A Minister may conclude a debate on any motion
which is critical of the Government, or reflects adversely
on or is calculated to bring discredit upon the Government
or a Government Officer."

Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Speaker, as a matter of fact, I
tried to expedite the entire matter. I am not against any hon.
member speaking but, as far as I am concerned, on the
motion that I made, I only moved it at that time because I
had not finished making my point. Your Honour would re-
call that I had a very short time to speak because the Min-
ister had replied to me at great length. I then made the
motion that the debate be postponed and it was seconded by
the hon. junior member for Christ Church.

I rose today and suggested afterwards that the motion
which I moved be withdrawn. I now finally ask leave that
the motion be withdrawn. I do not know if the hon. member
now proposes to take an excursion into a new field. If that
is so, then I would say that the Hon. Minister would have a
right to reply. However, there was no new ground which I
attempted to open nothing which the Hon. Minister at the
time did not cover.

Sir, I do not intend to waste any more time on this. I
therefore ask leave that the motion be withdrawn.

Mr. SPEAKER: May I point out that the question of a
Minister rising in certain circumstances has no reference
to the introduction of any new or old matter after a member
has spoken? That right of reply is conferred by Standing
Order No. 27 wherein it is stated:

"A Minister may conclude a debate on any motion
which is critical of the Government, or reflects adversely on
or is calculated to bring discredit upon the Government or a
Government Officer."
There is no reference to any new matter having been
introduced. The position is that the Hon. Introducer of the
Resolution is asking leave to withdraw his motion. If there
is no objection, leave will be granted the hon. member.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Speaker, before leave is
granted. I should like to draw the attention of the Chamber
to the fact that I have recently taken over the portfolio of
Minister of Health, and although I am grateful to the former
Minister of Health whom, I think, has satisfied the House
as regards the criticisms made by the Hon. Leader of the
Opposition, I should like, apart from the points which have
been raised, to draw to the attention of this Chamber that
the Queen Elizabeth Hospital is a comparatively new Hos-
pital which has been established at the taxpayers' expense
in the vicinity of $9 million and which costs $10,000 per
day, that the Hospital is now passing through its teething
stages, and, in so far as Regulations are concerned, that
the Regulations concerning it have been again considered
and will continually be reviewed until such time as they
are adequate and satisfactory not only to the Hospital, but
to the taxpayers and the people who have to receive the
necessary treatment there.

I do not want to dilate too long on this, but I do want to
draw to the attention of the hon. senior member for the
aty of Bridgetown that the question of fees for private


rooms would again have to be examined because there were
certain wards which are not properly equipped to measure
up to Grade A. In other words, there are wards which are
not up to the standard of Grade A, and I am telling the
hon. member that certain things would have to be done
and that is now receiving the attention of my Ministry. In
other words, the arrangements are not satisfactory as far
as those wards are concerned, in that all are graded as
Grade A for which members of the public are asked to pay
$15 per day. Therefore, those fees will be re-examined.
3.45 p.m.

The matter of the radio-therapy fees will also have to
be examined, because it is based on the question of treat-
ment. One treatment costs $5.00 if it happens to be a non-
malignant one; where the treatment is fora malignant case,
then you will have to pay $10.00. You cannot have a static
fee of $50.00 for non-malignant treatments andanotherfee
for the treatment of malignant cases. In the case of radio-
'therapy, because that is based onthe number of treatments
given, the cost of these treatments would be $15.00 for
three of them and if you had five treatments, then the cost
would be $25.00. That is for the treatment of non-malignant
cases. Therefore, the fee is based on the number of treat-
ments received and not on any fixed sum. You cannot have
two static fees for malignant and non-malignant cases. I am
not now taking any Cabinet decision; the Cabinet will have
to consider what is a fair and reasonable fee for the tax-
payers. These matters have received my attention and they
are being examined. The question of fees in the Pay Wards
will be examined more closely. If the fee was $2.40 in the
past, we have tried to be as lenient as possible.


Mr. SPEAKER: I understand that the hon. senior member
for St. Peter is objecting to leave being granted for the
withdrawal of this motion.
Mr. WALCO'T: Mr. Speaker, my only reason for
speaking or wanting to speak is that I was notina position
to exercise my right to speak in this debate. If I had been
in that position, I would not have been entitled to speak now,
because it would be unfair for me to speak after the in-
troducer of the motion had made his reply. Moreover, I
have done this because this is not a closed motion; it is not
a motion that is asking the members of this House to vote
on something; it is a question where the motion was used
as a debate. When the hon. senior member for the City
says that I am speaking after him, I want to say that it does
not in any way injure the matter, because it is not a motion
which he intends to put before the House and therefore it
would not sway the debate either in one way or in the other.
There are only two points which I wanted to make and, in
fact, one of them I have made already. The hon. mover of
the Resolution has said that since he debated this question,
it has been brought to his attention that people are being,
victimised at the Hospital.
Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. I am
not objecting to the hon. member speaking. Lest you think
that I am not aware of the Standing Orders of this House,
does the hon. member rise on Your Honour's invitation to
speak on his objection to the withdrawal of the Resolution?
Do not let the hon. member think that I am not acquainted
with what nt being done; if the hon. member raises an ob-
jection to show the reason why a motion should not be al-
lowed to be withdrawn, then he cannot enter upon the origin-
al motion. Can the hon. member do that?

Mr. WAL(OTT: That is sandside law.

Mr. MOTTLEY: The hon. member says that that is
sandside law.

Mr. SPEAKER: When the hon. member objects to leave
being granted for the withdrawal of the Resolution, it may
be for the reason that he wants to contribute to the debate.

Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Speaker, I bow towhatever ruling
you make, but I expect such a ruling to bemadein similar
circumstances. I repeat, I am not objecting to the hon. mem-
ber speaking now.








1051
I-----


Mr. SPEAKER: I do not needlessly create precedents,
but it is necessary on certain occasions to do so.


Mr. WALCOTT: Mr. Speaker, I gave the reasons as
to why I wanted to speak. The hon. member has said that
since he spoke on this matter something fresh has been
drawn to his attention, which is now new matter. If the
Hon. Minister replies to anything, he should avoid the new
matter which has been raised. The hon. member spoke
about people being victimised, but he did not say who was
being victimised. I want to say, Sir, that I share some of the
views of the hon. member, not that I believe that the fees
as set out in this Schedule to the Hospital (Fees) Regula-
tions are too high, but it is only a question of the psycho-
logical impact of these fees. On a careful examination of
these fees, I would say that they are not too high in re-
lation to what is taking place; but, unfortunately, if you
allow something to run on for 20 years, 25 years or 100
years and you suddenly make a change, then the psycho-
logical effect is that people will talk about these things.

I am the Secretary of a Trade Union and I deal with
wages. As I said in another debate, I am a Socialist and I
believe in Socialist medicine.
3.55 p.m.

The Hon. Leader of the Opposition is not a Socialist,
and that is why I say that the Conservative always hold on
like grim death to the Institutions that the Socialists have
implemented.

Mr. MOTTLEY: I do not know what the hon. member
means.

Mr. SPEAKER: Is this purporting to be a point of elu-
cidation?

Mr. MOTTLEY: Yes, Mr. Speaker. No Socialist in this
country implemented free medicine.

Mr. WALCOTT: The hon. member does not know what
Socialism is or what free medicine is. There was free med-
icine in Barbados.

Mr. SPEAKER: Let the hon. member resume addressing
the Chair.

Mr. WALCOTT: The hon. member does not know what
free medicine is. He thinks that because some people go to
the Casualty and are given free medicine it is free. There
are other people who go to the hospital and do not get free
medicine. I believe in free medicine. When I talk about
Socialist', I mean the Socialist concept. The hon. member
thinks that Socialism began in Barbados, but it did not.

Mr. SPEAKER: In any event, Socialism does not form
any part of this address.

Mr. MOTTLEY: On a point of order, how could the hon.
member suggest to me that I think Socialism began in Bar-
bados.

Mr. SPEAKER: That is not a point of order. I do not
think the hon. member should rise and say "on a point of
order" when he knows it is not a point of order.

Mr. WALCOTT: If the hon. member does not know, let
him read. He may read, but not as much as I do on these
subjects, not only as a Trade Unionist, but I have other
interests. Free medicine is not a Barbados Socialist con-
cept; it is a concept of making medicine free to the Commu-
nities because of what medicine means to a community. I
agree that the fees at the Hospital should be abolished like
school fees to which the Conservatives in this country ob-
jected, and I would like to see the day when medicine would
be free and built into your Social Security pattern; but it'
is a question of your costs and other priorities that you
have to meet; so this jar of carrying what it is will have a
psychological impact, not that the fees as compared with
other fees are too high. I would like the hon. Leader of the


Opposition to wait for what I am going to say now, and this
will keep him in his seat............

Mr. SPEAKER: There is no obligation on any hon, mem-
ber to retain his seat to listen to any other hon. member.

Mr. WALCOTT: It would not be fair for him to be out
of his seat when 1 say what I am going to. The hon. mem-
ber I would not say unwittingly, I would say wittingly is
conducting a campaign of fear and intimidation among some
of the staff at the Barbados Hospital, and he has carried it
too far in my view. This fear and intimidation is not good
enough. In one breath he talks about victimisation, and
whatever the hon. member said to do, the former Minister
took up this campaign of fear and newsmongering, cheap
gossiping and disloyalty of people who work in organizations
coming out and trying to blackmail some of their other col-
leagues in this manner which is below the dignity of profes-
sional people; and any member of this House should chase
them out of their offices when they come with news, because
a person who starts this campaign will sooner or later start
other types of campaigns. It is unworthy of doctors and pro-
fessional people in their own organization not to be able to
settle their own personal or local difficulties among them-
selves, because we have these difficulties in all branches
and phases of life, and I do not like these campaigns of fear
that are directed against a few persons. I would say to the
hon. member that a person may not be his friend, and it is
always easy for people to bring stories about people whom
they know are not your friends.

Mr. Speaker, there are doctors in this Island working
in an Institution which comes directly under the administra-
tion of the Hon. Leader of the Opposition who is the Mayor
for the City of Bridgetown. The St. Michael Infirmary comes
directly under his control and Ihave heard people who have
been in this Instltuion speak critically of the doctors at that
Institution. But I have never heard the kind of castigations
that would be very appropriate to his organization within
the Mayoral office, and that is why he may think the Minister
of Health has a right to do it that way. I hear people talk
about doctors being stiff, and not being friendly. I know a
doctor who is not a Barbadian working in this Island who
is the most unfriendly, unmannerly person you can meet,
but it is none of my business if the man is an unmannerly,
unfriendly, hoggish, priggish, or snobbish person,because
I am nothing to do with that in his personal capacity; yet
I have not heard one word about him. Here is a non-Barba-
dian working at the Hospital; nothing is said about this un-
mannerly, snobbish or priggish man, but I have heard so
much criticism about one Barbadian who is superior to the
non-Barbadian as a professionalman. I know that this cam-
paign of fear can only originate from the inside, because
the Hon. Leader of the Opposition is too busy a man to be
within the confines of an Institution like the Hospital to know
these things first-hand; so whatever he says would be from
information which people who work there bring out. When
this type of information comes out from Institutions, you
have to be extremely careful when it is being used against
another in one's professional capacity. It has been stated
that people who can pay are given prioritywhen they go for
X-rays.
4.05 p.m.


I wonder if the Hon. Leader of the Opposition would not
receive priority in illness as against other people in Bar-
bados. I do not believe that can be something which can be
said to be unfair.

Mr. MO'ITLEY: The hon. member has misquoted me.

Mr. SPEAKER: This would be a point of explanation.

Mr. MOTTLEY: Yes, Sir. If this debate goes on in this
way, hon. members on the floor of this House taking the
right of making a closing debate on this matter, the debate
is not going to end in this way.


Mr. WALCOTT: You know you are wrong.













Mr. MOTTLEY: You are wrong. What I have risen on
is to say that the hon. member has misquoted me. What did
I say about X-ray examinations? The people who go are the
people who cannot pay and, in similar circumstances, the
people who can pay are the people who do not go. In other
words, we get more people going to get X-ray examinations
who cannot pay for them than those who can pay.

I hope the hon. member will appreciate the point which
I have made. The hon. member did not have the opportunity
of hearing the reply which the Hon. Minister gave in reply
to me. The Hon. Minister himself admitted what was hap-
pening at the Hospital in this respect as regards persons
who could pay and that there was not a question of having an
emergency for X-ray examinations.

Mr. WALCOTT: The hon. member has baitedthe Min-
ister into a trap, but the Hon. Minister is a much younger
member in politics than I am. The hon. senior member for
the City baited the Hon. Ministerwho fell Into the trap which
he set for him.

What I do say. Even as regards what the hon. member
said not long ago in answer to me, I do not subscribe to
those sort of statements as regardsyour saying that people
came to you and toldyou so. Idoubt very much that the peo-
ple who are sent are the people who cannot pay. As a mat-
ter of fact, I believe that many of these statements are
exaggerated. They try to bring out certain things against
certain people. The Hon. Minister said that the Queen
Elizabeth Hospital is a new institution and it has now
started.
I promise the hon. member that I would not say any-
thing more, but I cannot subscribe to the view of anyone
trying to pull down these institutions which were created
to be places for discipline, and your castigating the indi-
viduals in them based on information which you have re-
ceived from other people. You must have impartial inves-
tigations but not by me or by any other hon. member com-
ing into the House and making statements. I can raise a
matter, but I cannot investigate it. The hon. senior member
for the City raised this matter and it was directed against
one doctor or two; but it was personal. If other hon. mem-
bers in this Chamber are afraid to say so, I am not afraid.
The one doctor against whom these criticisms were raised
is in my view one of the best Specialists at the Hospital,
and he is comparable to any other Specialist in the West
Indies. What I would be tempted to say now, I would not
say because the hon. member has left his seat and it would
be unfair to say it behind his back. Therefore, I prefer to
say it on an occasion when the hon. member is in the seat.

Mr. Speaker, I thank you for allowing me the oppor-
tunity to make these comments.

Mr. SPEAKER: The question is that this Resolution
do now pass. Hon. members in favourwill please say "Aye"
hon. members against will please say "No". Methinks the
"Noes" have it.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Speaker, you will recall that
I intervened when the Hon. Mover of the Resolution asked
leave to withdraw the Resolution by virtue of the fact that I
had a perfect right to speak. However, I have not make any
motion.

Mr. WALCOTT: Mr. Speaker, I riseona point of order.
I did not object to leave being granted to withdraw the mo-
tion. I said: "Before leave is being granted, as I had not
spoken, I would crave Your Honour's indulgence to speak."
I did not object to leave being granted. All it meant was
that I was craving the opportunity to speak.

SMr. SPEAKER: Was there any subsequent request after
the original request?

Mr. WALCOTT: Sir, you will have to take it that the
hon. member's motion was to withdraw the Resolution. The
hon. member gave notice of that request. It was not a ques-
tion of my objecting. I did not object to leave to withdraw


the motion; I was asking for the indulgence to speak before
the motion was put for leave to withdraw the Resolution.

Mr. LYNCH: Mr. Speaker, I beg for leave to withdraw
the motion.

Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. junior member for the Cty
has asked for leave on behalf of his colleague for the Cty
for this Resolution to be withdrawn. If there is no objection,
leave will be granted to the hon. member. (A pause.)

There being no objection, leave is granted the hon.
member and the Resolution is deemed to be withdrawn.
4.15 p.m.

ORDERS POSTPONED

Mr. SPEAKER: The next Order of the Day under
Private Member's Business stands in the name of the hon.
junior member for St. Peter:- To move the Third Reading
of a Bill to authorise George Sugarman to extend and en-
large a parcel of land between Sand Street and the sea in
the parish of St. Peter. That matter has been referred to
a Select Committee.

The next Order of the Day stands in the name of the
hon. junior member for St. Philip. That is to move the Third
Reading of a Bill to authorise the Southern District Council
to pay Percival Bascombe a gratuity and pension. That also
is in the hands of a Select Committee.

The next Order stands in the name of the hon. Junior
member for Christ Church. That is to move the Third
Reading of a Bill to authorise Grace Taylor to errect a
groyne and Seawalls at Four Aces, Dover, Christ Church.
Likewise, that matter is in the hands of a Select Committee.
The next Order of the Day stands in the name of the
hon. junior member for St. George:- To move the passing
of a Resolution requesting a grant from Government to the
Local Weight-Lifting Association. I observe that the hon.
member is not instantly in his place.

The next Order stands in the name of the hon. senior
member for the City:- To move the passing of a Resolution
relating to the Customs (Amendment) Regulations, 1965. I
observe that, likewise, the hon. member is not in his place.

RESOLUTION re ESTABLISHMENT OF CENTRES
IN RURAL AREAS TO ASSISI
SMALL HOLDERS

Mr. SPEAKER: The next Order of the Day, which is
Order No. 7, stands in the name of the hon. senior member
for St. Thomas:- To move the passing of a Resolution rela-
ting to the establishment of Centres in rural areas to
enable small holders to dispose of their crops.

Mr. BATSON: Mr. Speaker, I have observed that the
Hon. Minister of Agriculture is not now in his place, and I
am wondering if it would be unkind to move the passing of
this Resolution in the absence of the Hon. Minister. I would
like to proceed with this Resolution, but the Hon. Minister
is not in his place. (After a Pause). However, Sir, I am
going to proceed with this Resolution. Sir, this Resolution
is a rather simple one. It is so simple that if any hon. mem-
ber of this Chamber should vote against it, he would not be
fulfilling the purpose for which he was sent to this Cham-
ber. I do not think that this is any controversial issue. The
text of the Resolution is as follows:-

WHEREAS the smallholders of land in the rural areas
do experience much hardship in disposing of their produce
profitably in the ity of Bridgetown:

AND WHEREAS the major portion of the money they
get is used for transporting the said crops to the Marketing
Corporation;

BE IT RESOLVED that Government explore the possi-
bility of establishing centres in the rural areas, thus









1053


enabling the smallholders in getting a better return for
their crops.

Mr. Speaker, in travelling around the country, it is
rather appalling to see the number of smallholders who
are going to and fro and to Bridgetown in order to dispose
of their produce. I believe that, as a representative of the
people in this Chamber, it is my duty to draw this matter to
the attention of the Government. Many of these smallhold-
ers of land can ill afford the amount of expenditure which
they have to provide in selling their crops. At times the
Marketing Corporation rejects some of the produce of these
smallholders and that rejection is sometimes In the form of
a major loss to these small holders. They use their money
for the transportation of their produce and sometimes they
have to return home with the produce. Some of these people
lose a whole day's work in that process. I feel that these
smallholders should be allowed everlastingly to sell their
wares without anybody having to come to their rescue. I
feel that this occasion is most opportune for these small-
holders to be represented and be taken care of. Sometimes
these smallholders do not know the commodities which the
Marketing Corporation would be purchasing and there is,
therefore, a lack of information as to the Item which would
be most required, and therefore they have to experiment
and gamble when they wend their way to Bridgetown..

Mr. Speaker, I do not think it would be sking the Gov-
ernment too much to establish centres in th se rural areas.
It is not necessarily a question of establish g these centres
in all the parishes, but establish them in th best available
places, so that the kind of produce which is required by the
Marketing Corporation could be easily transported. The
type of transportation for this produce is somewhat limited
because people are unable to transport their entire amount
of produce by the buses. The owners of these buses do
charge exorbitant fares; but if the Government could initiate
a policy of allowing their trucks to go to these centres and
collect the produce of these smallholders, that would ease
the financial burden and tension of these people considera-
bly. I do not think that it is beyond the ability of the Gov-
ernment to permit their trucks to go to these various
established centres and collect their produce from these
people. That will go a long way in ameliorating the suffer-
ing of these people. It is true that the Marketing Corpora-
tion collects its produce, but the Corporation is not
operating on a schedule whereby the smallholders are
aware of the time of the collection of this produce. If the
Government could place posters at these centres adver-
tising that in a way that the people would be familiar with it,
that, to my mind, would serve a useful purpose. I do not
think that the markets in Bridgetown and in the country
districts provide people with the type of information they
require in disposing of their goods. Sometimes a dozen or
more persons will sell the same item, and when people
go to the Marketing Corporation for similar items, they
find that these items are not there. That, in a large measure
is responsible for the people not utilising the advantages
which should be derived by selling their produce to the
Marketing Corporation in a wholesale way, and they are
therefore forced to go to the markets around so as to dis-
pose of their produce. If a system were established so as
to enlighten the people of the produce which is required, then
they would know what they should plant. They would know if
the Marketing Corporation requires tomatoes and other
commodities and they would plant these commodities so as
to suit the requirements; but as the position now is, the
people in the country are at a loss to know what is mostly
required by the Marketing Corporation. I believe that it is
the intention of the Government to go to the rescue of these
people.
4.25 p.m.

The Government is in my opinion very enthusiastic
about the establishment of these centres, because this is a
matter that has been long overdue, and should have been
implemented long ago, and the people in the country have
been looking forward to it with a feeling of expectancy for
some time, as it would be in keeping with the problems that
confront these smallholders right now. By having these
centres established, Mr. Speaker, the Government would be
better able to make their selection. They would not have


to wait until these smallholders come to town to sell their
wares and in some cases people sympathise with them and
purchase a small portion, and then the remaining portion
is returned and they are unable in some cases to dispose
with them. Even if they are fortunate to dispose with, them,
the margin of profit is very small, and when it is such,
these people live with a very uneasy spirit. You know what
it is, Sir, to have small kitchen garden, having your crops
well attended from a slender income and then to meet with
a mishap in trying to get rid of the items. That is something
that should be taken into consideration. Then too, some of
the members of this House represent rural parishes and
are often approached on this matter.

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

Mr. SPEAKER: I am afraid the time for Private Mem-
ber's Business has now expired, and the Housewill proceed
to the Orders of the Day under Government Business, the
first of these being to move the House into Committee of
Supply to consider the grant of sums of money for the ser-
vice of the Island.


Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move that
Your Honour do now leave the Chair and the House go into
Committee of Supply.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.

The question was put and resolved in the affirmative
without division, and Mr. SPEAKER left the Chair and the
House went into Committee of Supply, Mr. BATSON in the
Chair.

SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES 1965-66 No. 17
Head 24 Premier Cabinet and General was
called.
Hon, J. C, TUDOR: Mr. Chairman, under Item 11 Ex-
gratia payment for compensation, hon. members will see
from the explanatory note what this is all about. Mr.
Stanley Rice who was a Security Officer during the construc-
tion of the Queen Elizabeth Hospital died at the Barbados
General Hospital in early January last year as a result of
injuries on 5th January last year while on duty.
Mr. Rice at the time of his death was not supposed to
be entitled to Workmen's Compensation, and as an ex-gratia
payment the Government has decided to ask this Committee
to grant $900 to his widow on compassionate grounds in view
of the circumstances surrounding his death. Hon. members
may even recall that the circumstances surrounding his
death was a matter for the Supreme Court of this Island.
However the point is that he was not entitled to Workmen's
Compensation and we are asking for the sum of $900 to be
granted so that we can give his widow as an ex-gratia pay-
ment on compassionate grounds.
I beg to move that Head 24 Premier Cabinet and
General stand part.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.
The question was put and resolved in the affirmative
without division,
Head 31 Printing Office was called.
Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Chairman, hon. members will
see that Item 21 in the current Estimates makes provision
for overtime payment in the Printing Office. The sum of
$5,000 has been voted and we are now asking for Supple-
mentary provision of $7,000. This is required to meet the
additional coats for the current financial year resulting
from the revision of overtime rates which became effective
from 1st April, 1965.

I beg to move that Head 31 Printing Office stand
part.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.

The question was put and resolved in the affirmative
without division.













Head 41 Ministry of Trade and Labour was called.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Chairman under Item 9 -
Compensation and Charges under Workmen's Compensation
Act 1943, supplementary provision of $7,600 is required.
Two Government employees, Mr. Ralph Waithe and Mr.
Clyde Iaisley died as a result of accidents and the Govern-
ment has become liable for the payment of Workmen's
Compensation, amounting to $7,622. This is of course due
to their dependants, and the Resolution therefore seeks
supplementary provision of $7,600.

I beg to move that Head 41 Ministry of Trade and
Labour stands part.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.

Mr. WALCOTT: Mr. Chairman, I am very glad that
this matter has arisen in the Government itself so that I
can raise this matter. You will remember that when we
were amending the Workmen's Compensation Act, I pointed
out to the Government then that the state should take over
Workmen's Compensation. We are passing a Resolution now
for $7,600 to pay two men who died as a result of accidents
because the Government does not pay any money to insur-
ance for Workmen's Compensation, but the Government
acts as its own insurer and now will pay the full value of
$7,600 for these two men.
4.35 p.m.

Now, Sir, I would like to draw to the attention of the
House that although the Government is paying out $7,600
in Workmen's Compensation it comes out of the taxpayers'
money; therefore, the Government can deal with it. This is
unlike a firm or an individual paying out this money because
the insurance company would be paying it out.

This is what I would like to draw to the attention of the
Government. I know that the Government has under consid-
eration a scheme for Social Security: but while the grass is
growing, a lot of money is thrown away and it should be
investigated. Thousands of dollars which we cannot afford
to lose are thrown away in insurance premiums. A consid-
erable portion of money leaves this country by way of insur-
ance premiums.

Another thing which the people in this Island have got
to realize is that they have to insure the people who work
for them. I am in the industrial sector every day. We can
employ a staff to carry out this function and make every
employer insure his employees. I think that the present
rates of insurance which we have in Barbados are wrong
because they are based on the incidence of accidents. It
takes a lot more to insure a manwho is working on a plan-
tation. There are 20,000 plantationworkers, and I think that
when you take the whole lot of them, you can spread them
over the whole lot of other workers and you will find that
the other line of workers would prove not so burdensome. Let
the man who works on a plantation pay a little more, and
the man who works in the dock pay a little less.

I say this. Every employer in Barbados ought to pay
workmens' compensation for every employee of his accord-
ing to the Act. We inthis Island must get efficient like peo-
ple in big countries. We must get down to business and
must not entertain any longer this type of inefficiency.
There are lots of employers employing people and trying to
get off paying insurance for Workmens' Compensation. You
will find that these people insure their properties as high as
ever, and they do not insure their employees against falling
off a ladder: therefore, their property is valued higher than
the human element. You can go to any of these business
places and find that the business is insured, but the people
who are employed are not insured and the employer is hop-
ing to chance that something does not happen to the worker.
If something happens to the employee, you find the employ-
er asking an insurance company to back date insurance for
him or the employer getting a death certificate of the worker
to show that he died after he was insured. The legal boys
then have to do the legal manoeuvres to Justify the wrongs.


I am very serious about these matters, and I hope the
Government would take me as serious as I am, because
Workmens' Compensation can be a vital pillar in our So-
cial Security Scheme. There are about 80,000 people em-
ployed in Barbados; therefore, you can get some conception
of the money which you would be able to get in from that
source. If that is the labour forcein Barbados, it would
give you an indication of what you should get in and I would
like to see this Government coming on the 1st January, 1966
with the machinery to implement this.

I also hope that now there is a new Minister of Labour,
Workmens' Compensation according to the Act would be run
by the Government. I find that we in Barbados like to talk
too much and do too little. The Workmen's Compensation
Act was passed in 1943, and Workmens' Compensation is
still being run by private insurance companies. Also the
majority of people are not insured and lots of workers are
going on Jobs when they are not insured. Therefore when
something takes place, we get employers begging insurance
companies to take out insurance for them.

I would like to see the Government bringing in a Work-
mens' Compensation Scheme for everybody. If a national
scheme was to be put into effect by Government where no-
body is exempted from putting money into the scheme, it
would mean that the scheme would be built up based on the
number of people who you have. Now that we have raised
the level of Workmens' Compensation and the death benefits,
I think I would be failing in my duty if I did not mention this.

I would like also to draw to the attention of the Hon.
Minister that I think a proper investigation should be car-
ried out by the Government into the incidence of accidents.
I am not satisfied about an accident which took place at Hay-
mans factory recently where four people lost their lives.
I still believe that factory inspection is below what it should
be, and I still believe thatwe areworking on a hit-or-miss
basis. Alot of things could stop. You should stop this running
board business on buses. You should make it illegal for
women to work on any bus where they have to struggle acfos s
a running board. The days for that are over because too
many excuses are brought up when people lose their lives.

Mr. Chairman, you have a member addressing the Chair
and immediately besides him are honourable members car-
rying on a loud conversation.

Mr. CHAIRMAN: The hon. member is asking hon. mem-
bers to desist from interrupting him.

SMr. WALOTIT: Sir, if they go on, I will disturb them
so badly that they will go outside. When they are speaking
so loudly, it shows thatthey are not interested in the debate
and they should leave. At another time, theywould say that
they are interested in the debate. Now something is discussed
in their interest, they are keeping as much noise as if I am
an intruder.

I feel that this question of Workmens' Compensation as
regards accidents taking place in factories should be inves-
tigated. An investigation should be made in circumstance
surrounding those poor people who lost their lives at Hay-
man's factory. Prior to that, some man was left in a boiler
and was boiled down like syrup at the Spring Hall sugar
factory.
4.45 p.m.

These gross acts of negligence cannot go on being un-
noticed. I do not know what the powers of the Labour De-
partment are as regards inspection, but if this thing had
happened in England, this particular company might have
been charged with criminal negligence in that a man is left
in a boiler to boil like syrup and nobody could give any
explanation to the effect that the factory had been started
and that a man was in there. That was a man who was put
in there to work. The thing was so badly supervised that a
man is put to do a Job which people do not like to do. Then
you talk about automation. When a man comes out of a cen-
trifugal he looks like a rat; but they want to have automation













for the jobs which people do not like to do. When it comes
to a job like this, you find that aman is left in a factory and
boiled; but when it is a question of soot going on somebody's
floor, all the legal giants are brought together forthepur-
pose of obtaining an injunction.

Unfortunately, the Labour Department does not seem
to be able to institute any prosecutions in these matters.
Under the Ontario Act, not only is the Board paying out
the money, but they will investigate the nature of the acci-
dent. We would prefer people to die from natural causes,
and if there is an accident it must be one which is pure and
simple. There are some shoddy work methods in this island
where the legislation must be tightened up so as to protect
the workmen, and these things must be brought to the atten-
tion of the Government. It should be queried if anybody was
to see that the man came out of this place when he should
have come out.

Here we say that Workmens' Compensation was paid
into the Court and that is the end of it. A similar thing hap-
pened at Hayman's factory where four people were killed.
From what I have said about this matter, I hope the Gov-
ernment will see the urgency of effecting state control as
soon as possible. 1 do not think thatwe should lose any time
in implementing these things, especially from what we said
today about hospitalization. We should have the means at
our disposal to meet these costs. I feel that Workmens'
Compensation should help in meeting many of the social
legislation cases because in this social legislation we need
security for the injured and we should have protection for
the individual in all walks of social endeavour.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Chairman, I have heard the
strictures levelled by the hon. senior member for St. Peter,
in relation to this matter, and I should like to say that I
am equally distressed over the complete lack of any sense
of humanitarianism among the employing classes of this
country. I agree that it is the duty of a Labour Department
to ensure that a safe system of work is provided for all
workers who work in dangerous trades and occupations. I
feel that they are more concerned overpettymatters which
have no relevance to life and liberty than they are over the
circumstances of persons who suffer fatal accidents. This
Government has considerably increased the benefits re-
ceived under Workmens' Compensation. Prior to 1962 or
1963 when we managed to get this Bill passed, I would like
to remind the hon. senior member for St. Peter that we
would have had this legislation passed as far back as 195!
when I introduced the Bill; but if it had not been for one of
the representatives of St. Peter in the then Government
Party, who was occupying the Chair............

Mr. HUSBANDS: Mr. Chairman, on a point of order.
The hon. Premier is referring to me, and saying that some
Bill which he would have like passed was not dealt with and
I was the Speaker of the House at the time. It was pointed
out to me that that Bill would have created a charge on the
,Treasury and I considered it to be out of order for any pri-
vate member of the House to introduce a Bill of that nature.
I thought that I acted as I should have actedin my position
of serious responsibility as Speaker of the House at that
time. I was not controlled by any Party. I was a member
of a Party, but Party considerations played no part in my
consideration of the matter at that time. I was informed
that only a Member of the Government Party could intro-
duce a Bill which would create a charge on the Treasury.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Chairman, I have listened
very carefully to the hon. member. He said that he was
Speaker of the House, which is known, and he also said that
he was a member of the then Government Party, which is
also known. He said that he acted on advice which was given
to him, but he did not act on the advice of the Fourth Clerk
at the Table in the House of Commons or on that of any
-ther constitutional lawyer. He acted on the advice of the
then Premier of Barbados, who came over and told him not
to allow me to debate the Bill. I will allow the hon. member
to speak in Committee. All these people have to be smoked
out, and this is another illustration of some people's aspir-
ations standing in the way of other people.


Mr. HUSBANDS: Mr. Chairman,......


Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Chairman, did the hon.'mem-
ber rise on a point of order?

Mr. CHAIRMAN: I was listening to hear the point of
order.
4.55 p.m.

Mr. HUSBANDS: On a point of order......

Mr. CHAIRMAN: I will listen to the point of order.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Did the hon. member rise on a
point of order?

Mr. HUSBANDS: The hon. member has again this time
in no mistaken terms deliberately said that I listened to the
advice of the then Premier and made my ruling accordingly.
I here and now deny that, and I again say that the advice I
listened to was absolutely non-partisan. I am saying for
myself that the advice I then took was absolutely non-
partisan and I challenge the then Premier or any member
of his then Government to say otherwise.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Chairman, as I was saying,
if you look at the records of the House, you will find that
that Bill had been on the Order Paper for a considerable
number of months; but in those days under the Speakership
of the hon. member, non-Government members in other-
words, private members were not allowed the privilege
which they say they do not get now under a dictatorship, and
therefore it was a number of months before it came up on
the Order Paper. Now if the hon. member were concerned
about the constitutional propriety of the introduction of
such a measure by private members of the House, the time
for him to set about investigation is the date when that Bill
is presented to him, and not eight or nine months later,
and I am saying that when I got up to move the first reading
and the second reading of the Bill in 1955 to increase
Workmen's Compensation, Mr. Grantley Adams rose and
told the hon. member not to allow me to debate this Bill. I
protested; and the Speaker, as he then was, adjourned the
matter for two weeks and came back and said that he had
been advised after all those months that such a Bill im-
posed a charge on the Treasury of this Island. I wrote to the
Fourth Clerk at the Table and he said that such a Bill was
not a money Bill and imposed no chargeupon the Treasury
of this Island. To show what a dastardly act.....

Mr. HUSBANDS: I object to that and ask the hon. mem-
ber to withdraw that.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Iamnotwithdrawingthat, I said
it was a dastardly act of cowardice on the part of the hon.
junior member for St. Peter against the masses of the
people in this Island.

Mr. HUSBANDS: Mr. Chairman, I have asked the hon.
member to withdraw that reference to me.

Mr. CHAIRMAN: I am appealing to the hon. junior
member for St. Peter. I will give you an opportunity to
speak.

Mr. HUSBANDS: Mr. Chairman, a word hasbeenused
reflecting on me who am a member of this Committee and
of the House of Assembly, and I ask you to ask the Hon.
Premier to withdraw that word.

Mr. CHAIRMAN: What is the word of which the hon.
member is complaining?

Mr. HUSBANDS: The hon. member said that it was a
dastardly act on my part.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: I said it was a dastardly act of
cowardice on you as Speaker then, not now.

Mr. HUSBANDS: The hon. member is saying so now,
and I am asking you to have that withdrawn. It is going on









1056


the records now, and it is going to be published in the de-
bates now.

Mr. CHAIRMAN: If the hon. junior member for St.
Peter will sit, I will explain to him. The Hon. Premier
has just prefaced......

Mr. HUSBANDS: Mr. Chairman, you are Chairman of
this Committee and you are responsible for decorum in
here. The hon. member referred to an act on my part as
dastardly, and I am asking you to have the Hon. Premier
withdraw those words now.

Mr. CHAIRMAN: The hon. junior member for St.
Peter is asking that the words be withdrawn. Is the Hon.
Premier willing to change the words.

Mr. HUSBANDS: I am asking him to withdraw the
words.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Chairman, just let us be
calm on this matter. I wantto repeatwhat I said and I want
to repeat it so that there would be no mistake at all. I said
it was a dastardly act of cowardice committed by the hon.
member at that time as Speaker. The hon. member accepts
that as what I said.

Mr. HUSBANDS: Is the hon. member saying that I
accept something?

Hon. E. W. BARROW: What are the words I am sup-
posed to withdraw?

Mr. HUSBANDS: It was a dastardly act of cowardice
on my part as Speaker then.

Mr. CHAIRMAN: I am asking the hon. member to take
his seat. I will listen to the Hon. Premier now, and after-
wards I will deal with the issue.
Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Chairman, I am not going
to leave this issue, and I will repeat it seventy-five times
if necessary because I want no mistake to be made. I know
who my friends are and who are my enemies, and I know
who are masquerading as my friends. I made a statement
which the hon. member is asking me to withdraw, and you
will have to check with May's Parliamentary Procedure on
it if I say that ten years ago a dastardly act of cowardice
was committed by him in his capacity as Speaker at that
time. He is not Speaker now; so it is no reflection on the
hon. member now.

Mr. CHAIRMAN: The Chair has to decide that.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: I am only going by the Rules;
so it is not for him or the arsonists around him to make
the ruling. It is not for the self-confessed arsonists to rule;
it is for the Chair to rule, and I will abide by the ruling of
the Chair.

Mr. HUSBANDS: I am asking the hon.member towith-
draw those words about the arsonists around me in Parlia-
ment.

Mr. CHAIRMAN: The hon. Juniormemberfor St. Peter
is creating confusion in this Chamber.

Mr. HUSBANDS: It is the Hon. Premierwhois creating
confusion.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: I am warning him about the
arsonists around him.

Mr. CHAIRMAN: I am listening to the Hon. Premier
now and Iwill deal with the issue afterwards. I am appealing
to the hon. member to sit and wait.

Mr. HUSBANDS: I will sit and wait long.

Mr. BARROW: As I was saying, I have made a state-
ment, I have repeated the statement several times, and I


am prepared to repeat it again. The hon. member has ob-
jected to that statement. What I am submitting is that if you
are in doubt as to whether the statement I made is unpar-
liamentary, you can consult the Clerk who is legal adviser
to the Chair in this Chamber, and therefore when you have
been properly advised, you can rule ad I will act in accor-
dance with the wishes of the Chair. Ifyouare in a position
to rule, you can rule now.
5.05 p.m.

I am submitting with all due respect that if I say
somebody committed a dastardly act somebody meaning
the hon. Junior member for St. Peter and anybody else -
because he committed the act ten years ago, there are other
things which he may commit too.

Mr. CHAIRMAN: I would like to remind the hon. mem-
ber......

Mr. WALCOTT: Mr. Chairman, I rise on a point of
order. I am making this appeal to the Hon. Premier. In
view of the fact that the hon. Junior member for St. Peter
is still a member of the House and a sitting member at
present, anything which you say, even if it were some-
thing which happened ten years ago, must reflect on him

now and not only then. I would appeal to the Hon. Premier
to withdraw those remarks and let us get on. We must not
play into the hands of bait-catchers. If I were the Premier,
I would not give the hon. Junior member for St. Peter this
type of bait.

I appeal to the Hon. Premier to see that those words
reflect on the hon. junior member for St. Peter and to see
that if those remarks reflected on him then, they also
reflect on him now.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: I have been searching matters
and I cannot find a single precedent saying that if certain
comments were made on a person for certain acts done
in the past, they are applicable today. The Prime Minister
of Great Britain Mr. Harold Wilson last year referred to the
member for Smethwick as a political leper in Parliament
and the Speaker of the House of Commons did not deem It
unparliamentary. Therefore, if the hon. Juniormemberfor
St. Peter has begged me to withdraw that remark, I with-
draw it and say that he is a parliamentary leper. That
remark was used by the Prime Minister of Great Britain
in Parliament and it was not deemed unparliamentary. In
the absence of precedent, I would say that it was branded
on him for all times and for posterity that he is a parlia-
mentary leper.

Mr. HUSBANDS: Mr. Chairman, I rise on a point of
order. I did not hear the Hon. Premier's substitution and I
would like you to inform me what was the substitution. I
would have to ask the Hon. Premier, if the substitution is
in any way a reflection on me, to withdraw that too.
I did not hearwords. Since Idid not hear them, I am asking
you if in your opinion they areunparliamentary, to remind
me of those words.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: The hon. member cannot ask
the Chair if there are certain words which were said of
him that were unparliamentary. He has to object and he has
to object instantaneously.

Mr. HUSBANDS: I am asking the Hon. Premier to re-
peat the words which he said in substitution since I did not
hear them.

Mr. CHAIRMAN: I am appeaking to the hon. Junior
member for St. Peter to let us get on with the Resolution.

Mr. HUSBANDS: No, Sir. I am appealing to the Chair.

Mr. CHAIRMAN: Will the hon. Junior member take his
seat. (Mr. Husbands sat down.) The hon. Junior member
for St. Peter cannot compel the Hon. Premier to repeat
anything.













Mr. HUSBANDS: I am asking that the words be read
by the Clerk.

Mr. WALCOTT: 1 rise on a point of order. The hon.
junior member for St. Peter is now making this thing look
very ridiculous because if he had not heard, he is at fault.
He cannot ask for something to be read; he has missed the
boat. You cannot ask for words to be taken down which you
have not heard: you can only ask for words which you have
heard to be taken down. You cannot turn this House into a
burlesque.

Mr. HUSBANDS: The record will containthe remarks.
Mr. Chairman, we are in Committee now. I was paying
attention, but I did not hear the exact words which the Hon.
Premier substituted. Suppose those words are nearly as
bad as those withdrawn, I do not know. I was in my place
all the time, and if Ido not object to those words and those
words were just as bad as those which were withdrawn, I
would be made to look very simple indeed.

Mr. CHAIRMAN: The hon. member cannot object to
what he did not hear.

Mr. HUSBANDS: Mr. Chairman, get it straight as I
am giving it to you. I repeat myself. I would be in a very
invidious position if I am in this Committee, and the hon.
Premier in purporting to make a withdrawal of certain
words, substituted something equally as serious.

Mr. CHAIRMAN: The hon. junior member for St. Peter
cannot saythatwhatis substituted is equally as had because
he has not heard the words.

Mr. HUSBANDS: Therefore, I ask that the Hon. Premier
repeat those words.

Mr. CHAIRMAN: You cannot ask the Hon. Premier to
repeat anything.

Mr. HUSBANDS: Will the Hon. Premier, in doing what
he knows is fair, repeat those words?

Mr. CHAIRMAN: I am appealing to the hon. junior mem-
ber for St. Peter to let us get on with the Resolution because
you have not heard the words.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: I can assure the hon. junior
member for St. Peter that the words which I have used
were perfectly parliamentary because they have beenused
by no less a person than the Rt. Hon. Harold Wilson, the
Prime Minister of Great Britain, in relation to the member
for Smethwick, and the Chair has not found that those
words were unparliamentary. That was in England. We have
to abide by the Custom and Usage of the Imperial Parlia-
ment, in absence of precedent. Some previous member of
parliament used those words, and the Speaker did not deem
them unparliamentary.
5.15 p.m.

I am sure that they are not unparliamentary words.

Mr. HUSBANDS: On a point of order.....

Mr. CHAIRMAN: I will listen to the point of order.

Mr. HUSBANDS: Whether the hon. member's reference
to me is parliamentary or not, the words I used would be a
compliment to him.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: I thank the hon. member for the
compliment; as far as I am concerned, that is quite all
right. I congratulate the hon. member on being able to re-
peat what the hon. junior member for St. George has been
able to tell him. The hon. member is a trouble-maker in
this House. I accept anything which he says is a compli-
ment.

Mr. MILLER: Mr. Chairman, on a point of order. The
hon. member on my left, the hon. Junior member for St.
Peter, needs no advice from me. He readily fits in with
any problem; he can take care of himself.


Hon. E.W. BARROW: Mr. Chairman, Iwill now demon-
strate to the hon. member my authority as to the ruling
which he gave. I asked the Fourth Clerk at the Table in
the House of Commons whether it wouldbe considered that
a Bill to increase the amount payable to dependants of
workmen under the provision of the Workmen's Compensa-
tion Act would be considered as a Bill which imposes a
charge on the Treasury. The answer which Igot back from
the Fourth Clerk at the Table in the House of Commons
is that in the United Kingdom such a Bill would not have
been so considered. The Fourth Clerk at the Table in the
House of Commons advised me to seek the advice of the
Clerk at this Table on the matter If I was in any doubt about
such a matter. I was in no doubt at all aboutit. I am saying
that the hon. member, who was Speaker at the time, did
not consult all the legal advice of the Chamber at the time.

Mr. HUSBANDS: That is not true.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Both of the Clerks are here.

Mr. HUSBANDS: I say that that is not true.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Well, the hon. member said that
both Clerks were consulted.

Mr. HUSBANDS: I did not say so; Isaid that that is not
true.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Then neither was consulted.

Mr. HUSBANDS: The hon. member said that I did not
consult either of the Clerks at the Table and I replied that
is not true.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: The hon. member is saying that
he consulted either one or the other or both of the clerks.
When I said that he consulted one of them, he said that that
is not true, and when I said that he consulted both of them,
he also said that Is not true.

Mr. WALCOTT: On a point of order. Mr. Chairman,
this sort of behaviour does not become one who was the
Speaker of this House. The hon. member is jumping up all
the time and saying that what theHon. Premier has said is
not true. I am submitting that the hon. member can speak
when the Hon. Premier is finished speaking. If the hon.
member were in the Chair, he would not have allowed any
hon. member to get up like that.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Chairman, Iwantto get this
thing clear on the record. The hon. member said that when
he ruled that the Bill which I introduced for the purpose of
giving increased compensation to the dependents of workers
was out of order, it is not true to say he did not consult the
Clerks at the /Table in this House. I consulted the Fourth
Clerk at the Table in the House of Commons and I showed
the letter to the Clerk of this Assembly. Because he is the
Fourth Clerk at the Table it does not mean that he is No. 4
in order and he does not know anything about this matter.
Which one of the Clerks, I would like to ask, did the hon.
member consult? He says it is not true to say that he did
not consult them and, of course, he does not want to embar-
rass either of the Clerks. The hon. member was wrong when
he contended that the introduction of a Bill by a private
member for increasing the amount of workmen's compensa-
tion for a workman who was fatally injured or suffered
physical damage, would create a charge on the Treasury.
Let me, as a lawyer and a member of this House with some
experience in this matter, say this. The hon. member said
that he acted on the advice of his advisers; he said that he
was given certain advice or that he had certain advisers
to advise him but it took him two weeks in order to give a
ruling on the matter. His ruling was that a person, who is
not a member of the Government, cannot introduce a Bill
which imposes a charge on the Treasury. Therefore, Sir,
acting in your capacity, you could not bring forward a Bill
in this House in order to vote money out of the Treasury
to include the repairing of the roads in St. Thomas, much as
you would like to do that. Such a Bill would have to be in-
troduced by the Government: but any member could come
In here and introduce a Bill to increase the amount of


I









1058


Workmen's Compensation, and it is the employers thatthe
hon. member would be protecting, not the Government. We
have had to come down to this House with a Resolution to
provide a gratuity because the Government of Barbados
does not insure its workmen. That is the answer to It. The
Government is not under any obligation to pay one penny
to any person who is injured orwho suffers any fatal acci-
dent during the course of the employment of that person.
The hon. member is like a bantam cock jumping all over the
place; he cannot keep quiet. In the case of the hon. Junior
member for Christ Chuch, if anybody gets injured in his
hotel, automatically he has to pay money into the court.
The members of the Cabinet were shocked to realise that
a policeman who had his fingers bitten off in the execution
of his duties did not have any compensation for that injury.
5.25 p.m.

Furthermore every single case in which a policeman
had been injured in the course of his duty during the past
twenty years must now be done-up, and this man over
there ........

Mr. HUSBANDS: I object to that. Who is this man over
there? Mr. Chairman, the hon. member pointing to me said,
"this man over there."

Mr. CHAIRMAN: I amin the Chair, and I am tolerating
no more nonsense from the hon. junior member for St.
Peter.

Mr. HUSBANDS: On a point of order, the hon. member
pointing to me said "this man over there."

Mr. CHAIRMAN: The hon. member was addressing
the Chair. The hon. member is creating confusion.

Mr. HUSBANDS: Mr. Chairman, I object to the hon.
member referring to me as "this man over there."

Mr. CHAIRMAN: There is nothing to object to and that
is my ruling. The hon. Junior member for St. Peter was
Speaker of this House, and it is disgraceful that he does not
know the Rules. The Hon. Premier was addressing the Chair
and not the hon. junior member for St. Peter. The hon.
junior member for St. Peter was never referred to. Is the
hon. member objecting to the pointing of a finger?

Mr. HUSBANDS: Mr. Chairman, I rise on a point of
order. Will you hear my point of order?

Mr. CHAIRMAN: I will listen to the point of order.

Mr. HUSBANDS: The Hon. Premier was speaking when
he pointed his finger to me and said "this man over there",
and I saw it. I object to this reference to me, and I am within
my rights.

Mr. Chairman, I hear the voice of strangers, and if I
draw it to your attention, you will have to clear the gallery.
They are only here on tolerance.

I have told you, Mr. Chairman, that the Hon. Premier,
pointing to me said "this man over there", and I object to
those words and ask to have them withdrawn.

Mr. CHAIRMAN: In my opinion there is nothing to
object to.

Mr. HUSBANDS: Any normal person would know whom
he means.

Mr. CHAIRMAN: I cannot follow that.

Mr. HUSBANDS: Is it alright if I said that this man
over there must sit down and keep quiet?

Mr. CHAIRMAN: Will the Hon. Premier continue his
address?

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Has the hon. member for St.
Peter finished his interruptions? There is an expression in


Barbados .......... The hon. member wants noticing (Mr.
WALCOTT: He is unimportant.) I am talking about prin-
ciples, and when we have such flagrant breaches of the
ethics of Parliament, I must draw attention to the fact that
the people in this country have suffered as a result, and it
was the hon. junior member for St. Peter who was bringing
your attention to the downright callousness of the employing
class in this country who have failed to provide a safe means
of work. If they were in the United Kingdom, they would be
prosecuted for criminal negligence. It is not only a failure
on their part under the law of civil negligence to provide
a safe system of work; it is a complete indifference and
callousness on the part of the employers of this Island who
spend a'lot of money on their own organization, but do not
see that there are safe systems of work provided for their
workers, and it is the duty of the Labour Department to see
that such a system is provided.

I would like to give a little bit of gratuitous advice to
the hon. senior member for St. Peter, and I will come back
to the hon. junior member for St. Peter because he wants
noticing. The hon. member must allow me to speak without
interruption unless he is on a point of order. The hon. senior
member for St. Peter should see that his Trade Union
employs people who are interested in the working classes.
You cannot represent the masses and the classes at the
same time in this country; therefore I am saying very
seriously that down at Hayman Factory and Springhall and
at the Barbados Distilleries these employers should have
been sued for breaches of statutory duty and the Court has
authority under the Workmen's Compensation Act, provided
the case is lodged within twelve months, to award the full
amount of Workmen's Compensation which we have intro-
duced under the law, if the court finds that the employer
was in breach. Therefore, in every single case where a
worker is injured or killed, the employer in my opinion
ought to be prosecuted because the worker has nothing to
lose, and I am saying that without any fear of contradiction,
because the quantum of damages awarded for a breach of
statutory duty is considerably higher than the amount of
Compensation you would get here, in Canada, Australia or
any of the other territories where this law prevails.

What I want to do is to expose the behaviour of the
former Government on this matter when I was obstructed
under the pious expressions of parliamentary ruling given
by the hon. Junior member for St. Peter from proceeding
with a Bill in 1955. His ruling was to the effect that a Bill
like this introduced by a private member imposed a charge
on Government, and I am saying that if he was incorrect, he
may have been misguided; but he is recalcitrant, incorrigi-
ble and incurable in his persistence that he was right, be-
cause if that was so, we would not have to come to the
Legislature to ask for a Resolution for this sum of money
to compensate the relatives and families of these people. It
is very simple because every employer has to pay the money
into the Court automatically under the Bill, and the Barbados
Government does not come under the provisions of the Bill;
and up to now, although we are bringing down this Resolution
and assessing the quantum of compensation to which they
would have been entitled if it had been a private employer,
there would have been nothing to prevent our awarding noth-
ing at all.
5.35 p.m.

To treble or quadruple the amount of compensation or
to multiply by ten the amount which a private employer
would have to pay to a private employee is not an obligation
by the Act. There is a legal sanction. Policemen are speci-
fically excluded from compensation under the Workmens'
Compensation Act and this Government is taking steps to
ensure that they are included. If I am wrong and if the hon.
junior member for St. Peter is right to rule against me, all
I would say is that he was under pressure at that time be-
cause elections were coming up. (A VOICE: What time was
that?) That was in 1955 and there was some rumour being
mooted abroad that the ex-representative for St. Thomas
was going to supplement the hon. Junior member for St.
Peter. And so you had these politicians in Barbados whose
principles are conditioned by their personal position and
what is likely to be and is not likely to be. Therefore, I








1059


would be lacking in my duty if I did not get up and invoke
you to see that we had-to introduce this legislation speci-
fically because the Treasury of this Island is not bound to
pay one cent.

Every employer because of his obligations had to pay
Workmen's Compensation, but very few people in Barbados
knows that. For instance, there are between 20,000 and
23,000 domestics in Barbados and I doubt very much that
2,000 people have ever taken the trouble to go to the insur-
ance companies or to make enquiry at the Labour Depart-
ment to ensure that they have been insured for Workmen's
Compensation. When I say domestics, I mean the maids,
the nurses, the gardeners, the chauffeurs and all the other
people who work around the domestic side for other people.
All those people should be insured.

I doubt very much that there are more than 2,000 of
them who are insured today. I made sure that I was one of
the first persons, after the Act was introduced, to go and
insure the people who assist my family with the various
duties around my house; but I doubt very much that more
than three hon. members around this table have taken this
trouble. Therefore, I advise hon. members, "You had bet-
ter set your house in order."

The Labour Department is called upon to do what it
should have been doing all these years, and we are not at
all satisfied that the Labour Department is organised in the
way it should be organized I am not speaking particularly
against anyone because apart from hearing some com-
plaint from some lady in Belleville or the Navy Gardens and
recruiting workers to the United States, we do not think that
this Department is carrying out any of its obligations.

I, therefore, will not say anymore on that.

I want to stress that the hon. senior member for St.
Peter ought to ensure that his Union is properly advised on
this matter, and if you employ somebody to give you legal
advice see that they give you the proper legal advice.
Some of them would mention to you that they are entitled to
go to the Supreme Court for this. They have nothing to lose
by suing their employers because the Court has a duty to
perform. Where there is an order for compensation it has
to see to it that compensation is paid to those dependents
who are entitled.
In 19551 drafted a bill for Antigua. That legislationwas
passed although I heard that it was ruled out of order. It was
for the sum of $5,000 if death resulted. Here in Barbados
this legislation has been kept back from 1955 to 1963 and
the people had to sit down and wait all that time. You would
not think that the hon. member had the bulk of those people
in his hands. There was a case of Mr. Foster at Trio Path
and Mrs. Sealy. Her husband was killed in a tar-sand bed
way back in 1951-52. The Clerk of this House represented
the defendant. The deceased was a man who had about six
children and a wife, and the Workmen's Compensation at
that time was 200; but Mr. Foster spent about 300 resist-
ing the claim. We won the claim. The children of the de-
ceased have now grown up and are working. Their mother
who was young at the time and certainly eligible to be mar-
ried again, in the twelve or thirteen years which elapsed
eventually died of a broken heart. Mr. Fosterwas not uncon-
nected with the Barbados Labour Party. Up to now that
woman has not drawn a single cent although she won the
claim because Mr. Foster has not paid one penny of it.
Suppose I were like some of the peoplewhom you have prac-
tising and had charged that poor woman fees. I would not
be able to sleep at night. I would also say for the Clerk of
this House who appeared on her behalf that he did not charge
her either. At that time there was an identity of leadership
between the Barbados Labour Party and the Barbados Work-
ers Union. I wonder if the hon. junior member for St. Peter
sleeps at night. However, Sir, I am not concerned if the hon.
member chooses to go in court and make statements which
are not absolutely correct. I would not be concerned over
these things. A person goes in Court, and because of the con-
duct of some witness it is proved that person is a liar. That
is not phenomenal to me. In every case in court, you have
two different stories. In every single case, you have two


sides. Both sides sometimes may be making misstatements,
far less one side; but it does not mean that the side that lost
was not speaking the truth, so I am not distressed; that does
not worry me. But what will always continue to worry me
is that the Colonial system produced people who are so small
that they would abuse their constitutional position and deprive
people of the just rewards of their labour. I remember that
the case of Foster versus Sealy set me thinking by the am-
ount of charity which the lady and her family were given by
neighbours and friends. I managed to induce the clerk of the
House to assist me in doing this work, and he really did so
and that is what set me thinking. And then to come into this
Chamber and ask for an increase in Workmen's Compensa-
tion and to be distracted by people who are of the same class
as the workers, that has set me thinking further.
5.45 p.m.

Those are the things which concern me. You can go
into the Court and say that my car ran into yours, and not
that my car was parked and you ran into me. It is only a
question of your conscience. However, when you come to
hold up the progress of the people of this island by shelter-
ing under the cloak of constitutional authority, that is a dif-
ferent thing altogether. I would like to enjoin the hon. mem-
ber to read the Scriptures and see if he is not concerned
about the question of storing up treasures on earth. I remem-
ber that on the occasion when we lost the hon. junior mem-
ber for the City a service was held in memory of him at
St. Mary's Church I refer to the late Mr. A. E. S. Lewis
of sacred memory and it was said that if you do right,
that is acceptable to God, but if you do wrong you paid for
it. You not only had the Almighty God to contend with, but
your conscience and the masses of people who were not
improved. We must have long memories of these matters
because I know that this day would have come. I have had
to wait for ten years for this improvement. Even if I had
to wait for ten years I knew that the opportunity would have
come while the hon. member was still in his place. The
very fact that we have to push matters forward now means
that we may not be doing it next time; but it had to be done
while he was in here.

Another point which I want to make is this. The factory
owners and the employers in this country are not providing
a safe system for workers. The quarries are not fenced
whereas the law says that they should be fenced. There have
been so many grouses between employers and domestics
that we have not been able to attend to all the things which
needed to be attended to first. I have ordered an investiga-
tion into the structural organization of the Labour Depart-
ment.I have extended the contract in order to allow that to be
done. Up to now, we have not had any re-organization, but
people's lives are at stake. I do not intend to allow this state
of affairs to remain any longer. Another point is the failure
of the Labour Department of this country to be organized in
a proper way. Their comprehension of their duties leaves
a lot to be desired. I have dealt with the Department and the
Legislature and now the Trade Union; I want to say that the
Trade Union is not going to get anywhere as long as it con-
tinues to employ people who are not interested in the work-
ers, but in the employing classes. That is not any criticism
of the leadership of the Trade Union; that is probably a kind
of ingenuousness on their part to think that any person who
is engaged in the profession of law could represent both
sides at the same time. Sir Stafford Cripps and the people
of that kind could not do it; you cannot have persons repre-
senting everybody at the same time. It is not like medicine
where you take out somebody's appendix, and all you see is
the person's organs and the rest is covered with a sheet.
Where sociological issues are at stake, a man has got to
make up his mind as to where he stands on these issues,
but in industrial matters you have to be a Trade Union law-
yer or a Company lawyer. You cannot be both at one and the
same time. The Government and the Trade Union have to
put their houses in order, and the Department and the em-
ployees also have to put their houses in order. If we have
not carried out a re-organization of this Department, it
does not mean that we have not got the material with which
to enforce these provisions through the lack of observance
by which people are losing their lives year after year. We
have four people today, and you do not know how many there
will be at Bulkeley next year, and all you do is to put on









1060


your black suit as a representative of this House and say,
you was there at the funeral for people to see.
5.55 p.m.

I would hate anyone reading the debate to think that I
had become affected by the syntactical errors of the hon.
Junior member for St. Joseph which can be contagious. The
amount now is $7,622 for Mr. Waithe and Mr. Dalsley. When
I got up, I said I was making a swift calculation of what the
families and relatives of these two workers would have
got either from Government paying on the same scale or
from the private employer, and proportionately I worked
out that they would have got together about $1,170: so if
the triumph of the hon. Junior member for St. Peter has
been complete, the dependants of these workmen could have
looked forward to $1,170 tomorrow morning instead of
$7,622. There is, however, no amount of monetary com-
pensation, reimbursement or whatever you chose to call
it which could compensate for the lost of these workmen;
and though we try to assess as accurately as we can all
the needs and requirements of the survivors, it is almost
impossible to make a mathematical equation in matters
of this kind, because no one can calculate what the children
of these dependants might lose in future years through
not having their fathers' hands to guide them.

What I have said, Sir, might sound serious; but the
reason I have said it is that there is a long, slow process,
but it is a process of retribution of things revolving and
coming around to where they should be in the first place,
and it has caught up with some of the hon. members in this
House today; so let no hon. member think that he can make
a bad ruling or make a mistake and get away with it, be-
cause he may not have to wait until the day of judgment.
The hon. Junior member for St. Peter has had to answer
today to the nation. He has had his answer brought to him.
I regret we had to bring a Resolution arising out of the
death of workers who through the negligence of their em-
ployers were allowed to go under a vat which was full of
boiling liquor with wrenches and spanners, and there was
such slack supervision and the bolts were so rotten, that
they were boiled to death. I regret it is not $70,000 that
the employers are paying. The same owners of Haymans
Factory were sooting up the clothes of the inhabitants and
the people in Speightstown and the surrounding districts
until wealthy people brought an action and they put in soot
arresters, and immediately they asked the Government to
introduce a Bill in this House to prevent anybody from
bringing an injunction to stop them from pouring ash and
soot on anybody's clothes. You can go to St. Lucy's Parish
Church during the crop season, but wear a black suit,
black shirt, a black tie, black rubber shoes and black socks
or stay home and pray. That is all right; but when weather
Research is being done not only to the value of several
millions of dollars in the Caribbean but on the North Atlan-
tic shores and the Eastern seaboard of the United States,
certain people for their own reasons want to stop that
research from being conducted which will revolutionise the
whole theory of hurricane forecasting. They say this is an
offence against the liberty of the subject and an infrinement
of civil liberty. My view is that they can bring as many
claims for damages as they like. When Haymans Factory
gave off all that soot and people's clothes got soot, they said:
"All right; we will give you money to wash them, but you
cannot stop the factory from working." That is more impor-
tant to the sugar industry than the lives of the people in the
Eastern Seaboard or the 250,000 people in Barbados. I do
not think there is any other question I have to answer on
this. I regret that the Union at the time was not properly
advised to bring a case of breach of statutory duty or fail-
ure to provide a safe system of work against the employers.

I would just like to say that it is also questionable that
even in a civil matter the Government would have been
liable, because these people were told in one case, as far
as I remember definitely to sit down according to the state-
ments which were made by the onlookers. Unfortunately he
fell off the lorry. The Government is not going to fight
anybody under any juridical niceties or anything like that;
the Government will pay. But the Government is under no


obligation to pay, and the hon. junior member for St. Peter
ought to know that; and if he did not know of it, he has had
a lesson today, and all I will say to him is go and sin no
more, but I will make sure he is never in such a position
in this House again to commit such acts of omission or
commission.

Mr. HUSBANDS: Mr. Chairman, we are on this Resolu-
tion in Committee. The hon. senior member for St. Peter
was striving to apprise the Government of its responsibility
relative to certain shortcomings in their industrial legisla-
tion as far as workers and workers in factories and so on
are concerned. The Hon. Premier thought it wise to get up
and treat in sport the sentiments raised by the hon. senior
member for St. Peter, but you can see that the Hon. Pre-
mier is very much more concerned with what he thought as
regards an action of mine some time ago being an obstruc-
tion in the path of the workers who would benefit from
Workmen's Compensation.
6.05 p.m.

Now, every man and woman in Barbados then and now
would know I would never put myself in the way of being an
obstructionist to benefits which would accrue to workers.
The Hon. Premier could not go anywhere and convince not
even my greatest enemy that I was ever such a man. The
Hon. Premier said that he spend so much time then to help
people of this country. That is not surprising at all.

Now, Sir, I made a Ruling some time ago. I have made
it clear that I did not take the advice of any politician at all,
whether he was Premier or Chief Minister or whatever title
he was, but that I was guided by the best advice that was
available to me, by my researches into May's Parlaiment
Procedure and by examining the proposed Bill. That ruling
I have seen today and after reading it, I do not think myself
disgraced in this community; rather, I feel enhanced. I be-
lieve that I would not be given permission to read that
Ruling now. I anticipate this. I believe that I would be given
permission to read this ruling verbatim, but if I were, I
would be glad.

Mr. CHAIRMAN: It is not necessary.

Mr. HUSBANDS: Thank you Mr. Chairman. In fact, I
said that I did not think you would allow me to read it. But
in making that Ruling I made my researches first. Believe
you me, anybody who ever sees a copy of that Ruling would
see that I referred to Section 2 of the Workmen's Compen-
sation Act.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Chairman, I am on a point of
order. Is the hon. member reading from a document? If he is,
that must be made a document of the House. The hon.
member said that he was not going to refer to the Ruling
he gave in this House. The only person who reads from
documents in this House and get away with it is the hon.
junior member for St. George, but we know that hon. mem-
ber's difficulty.

Mr. HUSBANDS: Mr. Chairman, let me inform the Hon.
Premier through you that I have re-read the document today
and this is in the document. Under Section 2 of the Work-
men's Compensation Act 1943-42, anyone who reads that
Act will discover that the word "Employer" includes Her
Majesty in the Government of this colony. This is express-
ly written in the Act, and that is the first thing which I poin-
ted out. I then further went on to quote from May's 15th
Edition. I can quote the Chapter because that edition of
May's is in this Chamber. That is what I was guided by.
No Premier came across the floor of the House and told me
this. I read that. No Grantley this or that told me that.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Chairman, I rise on a point
of order. I want the hon. member to be given as much rope
as possible. However, he was told what he could not do,
but he knew he would be speaking on this and in order to
do this he was given notes by the Clerk of the House and
the hon. member for St. George and he is reading from
those notes. I said that the hon. member's Ruling was wrong









1061


then and it has been proved wrong today. But if the hon.
member wants to go on, that is a matter for him.

Mr. HUSBANDS: The Hon. Premier would not be the
Premier if he did not make that remark. I was saying to
you, Mr. Chairman, and members of the Committee, that
no Premier strolled across the floor of the House and told
me what to do. What research there was, I did it myself
from May's. I was accused of having been prompted by some
member. If Your Honour reads my Ruling or anybody
else, they would see that I began and stuck to two points.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Chairman, I am on a point
of order. I said when I came to the second reading of the
Bill to amend the Workmen's Compensation Act I had
moved the first reading of the Bill previously that when
I got up and started to speak, a former member of the House
left his seat and went to the Speaker and asked him not t,
allow me to debate the matter. I protested and the hon.
junior member for St. Peter, who was then Speaker, said
that he would give a Ruling and he adjourned the matter and
would not allow a debate on it. Therefore, do not allow the
hon. member to build up a case that somebody came and told
him what ruling to give.

Mr. HUSBdNDS: Mr. Chairman, the Hon. Premier has
said that he remembers seeing some personality leave his
Chair and come to me, and he heard him tell me some-
thing. I have no direct recollection of that and it is my word
against his. I do not think that anywhere in Barbados his
word is more valid than mine or is received anymore. That
time has not come yet. I am not making a direct and em-
phatic statement as he, but I am saying that I do not remem-
ber that Sir Grantley Adams left his seat and came to me.
I do not remember that. I must use parliamentary language.
6.15 p.m.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: On a point of order. The hon.
member says that he does not remember; he Is getting a
little more careful with his language, but I remember and
there is no issue between the hon. member and myself. It
is not that the hon. member is not speaking the truth. I take
it that he does not remember or choose to remember, and
so my memory is better than his.

Mr. HUSBANDS: When the hon. member says that I did
not remember or do not choose to remember, I think that he
has deliberately chosen to remember; that is all. There
is no point of order in that. After consulting May's Par-
liamentary Practice it was made clear to me that the
proposed Bill was out of order. If you, Mr. Chairman, have
read that ruling and the reference to that particular para-
graph in "May's", you will see my reference to it. I did
not cook up anything; I did that on due reflection after I had
made my research. If that is so, how can I then have the
finger pointed at me as being the one man in Barbados who
had obstructed an increase in Workmen's Compensation? In
my considered opinion, after looking at Section 2 of the
proposed Bill and after consulting May's Parliamentary
Practice which anybody can read, I gave my reasons for
ruling that the proposed Bill was out of order, That is some-
thing which I remember distinctly; I do not know if the hon.
member would choose to remember this. The then hon.
senior member for St. James, Mr. 1. K. Walcott, had
brought forward a Bill in here. The Government rushed in
with another Bill hoping to have precedence over the Bill
brought forward by Mr. Walcott and I did not allow it,
Hon. E. W. BARROW: I wonder if the hon. member
would tell us more about that?

Mr. HUSBANDS: The records will show It.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Chairman, I am asking what
the Bill was about, and the hon. member is telling me that
the records of the House will show that, The hon, member
allowed a private member to have precedence over a Bill
which the Government had brought in. I would say that for
once in the hon. member's life he has acted reasonably.


Mr. HUSBANDS: Mr. Chairman, if there is any sug-
gestion that I was in any way partisan, I am saying that it
is just the opposite. The hon. member wanted to get some-
thing off and I may say that he has a lotto get off.The hon.
member is being vindictive and is trying to besmircd me,
but my conscience is better than his.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: The hon. member says that I am
vindictive, but I would still like to know if the Bill to which
he was referring was one for Workmen's Compensation. I
cannot imagine Mr. E. K. Walcott introducing a Bill against
the vested interests in this colony. It might have been a Bill
to send a congratulatory telegram to Mussolini.

Mr. HUSBANDS: The hon. member is paying me a com-
pliment.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: On a point of order. Iwas saying
that the hon. member considers for the workers' interests,
and if the employers' interests were at stake we would not
have had a different Ruling. I do not want to drag on with
this debate.

Mr. CHAIRMAN: I am appealing to both hon. members
to get on with the matter of this Resolution. I think I
have given sufficient latitude in this debate and I am
drawing it to a close. I do not want to hear anything now but
the subject matter of the debate.

Mr. HUSBANDS: Mr. Chairman, the sums of money
which are contained in this Resolution are for the payment
of compensation in respect of certain workers. We will
always be in agreement to workers being paid compensation.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: You took a long time to do that.

Mr. HUSBANDS: You had your time. I was saying, Sir,
that a Resolution of this sort I will always support. I want
to say that for the whole of my political career I have been
voting for Resolutions of this sort. I have listened today .
to what the Hon. Premier has said with regard to the re-
sponsibility of the Government Department which is known
as the Labour Department, and from what he has said, I
would like to see the Hon. Minister of Labour tighten up
all the Regulations which apply to the safety of workers
who are employed in the sugar factories of this island.
I have no doubt that every hon. member of this Committee
will back the Government one hundred per cent in this
matter. This is not any controversial issue, and the part
of the debate which has produced any sort of heat was not
in any way related to the Resolution.
6.25 p.m.
First and foremost the Hon. Premier has injected
seeds of discord, not on the Resolution, but on certain other
phases with regard to personalities that he wanted to get
off his chest. He has done that, and now he has done that,
we all will vote for this Resolution with as much sincerity
and ardour as he or any other of his colleagues.

Thd question that Head 41 Ministry of Trade and
Labour stand part, was put and resolved in the affirm.
active without division.
I Annexed Estimates Post Office was called,


Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Chairman, hon. members will
see from the explanatory note that provision had been made
in the last financial year to meet the cost of supplying the
stamps which were originally scheduled to arrive in time
to be put on sale on lst April, 1965. Due to unforeseen cir-
cumstances the stamps were not received by 1st April,
1965, and the amount lapsed. Supplementary provision is
therefore now required for these expenses to be met in this
financial year.

I beg to move that Head I Annexed Estimates Post
Office stand part,













Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.
The question was put and resolved in the affirmative
without division.
Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Chairman, I beg to move that
the Resolution for the sum of $52,085 do now pass.

Hon. C.E. TALMA: I beg to second that.
The question was put and resolved in the affirmative
without division.
On the motion of Hon. J. C. TUDOR, seconded by
Hon. C. E. TALMA, Mr. CHAIRMAN reported the passing
of one Resolution in Committee of Supply, and Mr. SPEAK-
ER resumed the Chair and reported accordingly.
On the separate motions of Hon. I. C. TUDOR,
seconded in each case by Hon. C. E. TALMA, the
Resolution was read a first and second time and agreed


THE SUPREME COURT OF JUDICATURE
(AMENDMENT) ACT, 1965.


Mr. SPEAKER: The next Order of the day stands in
the name of the Hon. and learned member for St. John, and
that is to move the second reading of a Bill to amend the
Supreme Court of Judicature Act, 1956.
Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, this is a very short
Bill. It seeks to amend the Supreme Court of Judicature
Act, 1956, in order to make provision in respect of the ter-
mination of acting appointments as Judge of the Supreme
Court. The new subsection (2) of Section 7 reads as follows:-

"Every such appointment may be for such time or for
the trial or hearing of such causes or matters or otherwise
as may be specified in the instrument of appointment, but
save as so specified, a person appointed to act as Judge
of the Supreme Court shall continue to act until the office
is filled, or as the case may be, until the holder thereof
has resumed the functions of his office or the said
acting appointment is revoked by the Governor after con-
sultation with the Premier, (in the case of a person ap-
pointed to act in the office of Chief Justice) or acting on
the recommendation of the Judicial and Legal Service
Commission (in the case of a person appointed to act in the
office of Puisne Judge of the Supreme Court):

Provided that the person so appointed to act may at
any time by writing under his hand addressed to the Gov-
ernor resign his acting office."

There is a certain defect which was considered to be
in the drafting of the Bill, in that it did not anticipate cer-
tain situations that may arise from time to time, and so
for the purpose of this amendment, subsection (2) to section
7 is to remedy that defect.

I therefore beg to move that this Bill be now read a
second time.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: I beg to second that.
The question was put and resolved in the affirmative
without division.

On the motion of Hon. I. C. TUDOR, seconded by
Hon. C. E. TALMA, Mr. SPEAKER left the Chair and the
House went into Committee on the Bill, Mr. BATSON in
the Chair.
Clause 1 was called.
Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Chairman, there is an amend-
ment which we have to make to Clause 1. As it is printed
it reads: "The Supreme Court of Judicature (Amendment)
Act", but it should read "The Supreme Court of Judicature
(Amendment) (No. 2) Act, 1965."

I beg to move that Clause 1 as amended stand part.


Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.


The question was putand resolved in the affirmative
without division.
6.35 p.m.


Clause 2 was called and passed.

On the motion of Hon. I. C. TUDOR, seconded by
Hon. C. E. TALMA, Mr. CHAIRMAN reported the passing
of one Bill in Committee.

Mr. SPEAKER resumed the Chair and reported
accordingly.
On separate motions of Hon. I. C. TUDOR, second-
ed by Hon. C. E. TALMA in each case, the Bill was read
a third time and passed.


JUDICIAL AND LEGAL SERVICE COMMISSION
(AMENDMENT) BILL, 1965

Mr. SPEAKER: The next Order of the day also stands
in the name of the Hon. and Learned Premier: Second read-
ing of a Bill to amend the Judicial and Legal Service Com-
mission Act, 1961.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, this Bill seeks to
amend the Judicial and Legal Service Commission Act, 1961,
1961 26. The proposed amendments will have the following
effect:-

(a) The number of appointed members of the Judic-
ial and Legal Service Commission will be increased from
two to three.

(b) members of the Senate will not be qualified for
appointment to the Commission and a member of the Com-
mission who becomes a member of the Senate will thereby
vacate his seat on the Commission; at present the relevant
provisions apply only in respect of membership of the House
of Assembly;
(c) there will be in the Act express provision in
respect of the termination of acting appointments in certain
of the offices set out in the Second Schedule to the Act. Like
provisions already exist in respect of the offices of Puisne
Judge and Director of Public Prosecutions and consequently
the provision in the Bill is not extended to those offices.

Therefore, the provisions in the Bill are and should be
well within the comprehension of hon. members and I there-
fore beg to move that this Bill be now read a second time.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.
The question was put and resolved in the affirmative
without division.
On motion of Hon. J. C. TUDOR, seconded by
Hon. C. E. TALMA, Mr. SPEAKER left the Chair and
the House went into Committee on the Bill, Mr. BATSON
in the Chair.
Clauses 1 and 2 were called separately and passed.
On motion of Hon. J. C. TUDOR, seconded by Hon.
C. E. TALMA, Mr. CHAIRMAN reported the passing of
one Bill in Committee.
Mr. SPEAKER resumed the Chair and reported
accordingly.
On separate motions of Hon. I. C. TUDOR, seconded
by Hon. C. E. TALMA in each case, the Bill was read a
third time and passed.
THE UNITED KINGDOM FORCES
(JURISDICTION OF LOCAL COURTS)
BILL, 1965

Mr. SPEAKER: The next Order of the day, which is
Order No. 4, also stands in the name of the Hon. and Learned
Premier: Second reading of a Bill to make provision for
withdrawing the Jurisdiction of the civil courts of the Island












to try members of Her Majesty's forces or of a civilian com-
ponent of those forced for offences against the law of the
Island committed whilst on duty and for certain offences com-
mitted whilst off duty.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, on the Ist June,
1965, the Head of the Government of the United Kingdom
made an Order-in-Council that the Jurisdiction of the Local
Courts Act, 1965, should be valid, on certain provisions to
the Visiting Forces. Members of the Opposition seem to be
unaware that the Secretary of State for the Colonies has no
right to recommend legislation for this House.
6.45 p.m.

Neither has the Queen got any right to pass any legis-
lation for this country. If it is the result of any misguided
information as to the Constitution of this country and the
constitutional position which we now enjoy, if the Secretary
of State for the Colonies followed the advice of the pro-
nouncements on the other side of the House, then I would
have to tell him in plain Barbadian language that he must
know his place. There are people who are aware of the con-
stitutional rights which formerly they used to boast of, but
now they seem to deplore the fact that Barbados has any
status at all and they would like to push it back into the dim
recesses of history. Her Majesty's Order-in-Council can-
not apply to Barbados and they have invited this country to
pass legislation by the Governor, the Senate and the General
Assembly of this Island.

We do not ordinarily put forward imperial legislation
and so clutter up our Statute Book with it, but there are
certain things which are more symptomatic of the contrac-
tural relationship which exists. We have moved from a posi-
tion of status, and even after malnutrition, a person who had
been enjoying this freedom before still had a status in so-
ciety. We have moved away from that.

I do not want anybody to get the impression that we are
passing legislation for Her Majesty's forces, but we have
done this for friendly nations who have spent money in Bar-
bados such as the United States Oceanographic Research
Station. It was a matter of great indifference to us until
we were respectfully requested or asked whether this Gov-
ernment would consider passing legislation of this sort.
This is a Bill which states that if you have troops of one
country in the territory of another, if any offences are com-
mitted against any property belonging to the friendly po\ er
and not the host country, the jurisdiction should not apply
to the Civil courts. These offences now are dealt with by the
nation rather than the Civil courts of this island, If any
serving member of the friendly power commits an act ag-
ainst a citizen of the country, then the courts of this ter-
ritory have full authority and jurisdiction to visit the com-
mission of that offence with the full penalty of the existing
law.
Mr. Speaker, that is all that this Bill seeks to do. What
we seek to do therefore in this Bill is to waive the jurisdic-
tion of the local courts in relation to offences which are
committed against other members of the visiting forces and
probably belonging to the Government of the visiting forces.
In this particular instance, the visiting forces are those of
Her Majesty's Government and not the forces of the United
States Government for which provision has already been
made in the Statutes of this Island.
I beg to move that this Bill be now read a second time.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.
The question that this Bill be now read a second
time was put and resolved in the affirmative without
division.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move that you
do now leave the Chair and the House go into Committee on
this Bill.


Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.

The question was put and resolved in theaffirmative
without division.

1rr. SPEAKER left the Chair and the House went into
Committeeon the Bill, Mr. BATSON in the Chair.


Clauses 1 to 7 inclusive were called and passed.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Chairman, I beg to move that
you do now report the passing of one Bill in Committee.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.

The question was put and resolved in the affirmative
without division,

The CHAIRMAN reported and Mr. SPEAKER resumed
the Chair and reported accordingly.

On motions of Hon. J. C. TUDOR, seconded by
Hon. C. E. TALMA in each case, the Bill was read a
third time and passed.
6.55 p.m.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, this concludes Gov-
ernment Business. I wish to state, Mr. Speaker, that in ac-
cordance with what appears in paragraph 124 of the Federal
Negotiations, 1962-65 and Constitutional Proposals for Bar-
bados which were laid in this House by Order of the Cabinet,
a Resolution will be introduced in this House next Tuesday
and after that a date will be fixed for debating this Resolu-
tion.Hon. members will therefore note that some time will
elapse between the tabling of the Resolution and the actual
initiation of debate on it.

STATEMENT re CONVENTION ON FREE
TRADE AREA

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, do I have permis-
sion to make a short statement?

Mr. SPEAKER: Let the hon. member proceed.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, at the invitation of
the Prime Minister of British Guiana, I intend to proceed
to that territory towards the middle of next week with the
Hon. Minister of Trade, the Financial Secretary and the
Acting Director of the Economic Planning Unit. I will be
accompanied by the Hon. V. C. Bird, Chief Minister of
Antigua, and he will be preceded by two Minister of the Gov-
ernment of Antigua, and we will be discussing the Conven-
tion which was drafted by the Government of Barbados on
the Free Trade Area. At the termination of these dis-
cussions, the necessary Resolutions to implement the
agreed proposals contained in the Convention will be
brought before this House, and after approval will be sub-
mitted for registration both with the United Nations and
with the Secretariat of the General Agreement on Tariffs
and Trade.

ADJOURNMENT

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move that this
House do now adjourn until Tuesday, 12th October, at 2.30
p.m.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.

The question was put and resolved in the affirmative
without division, and Mr. SPEAKER adjourned the House
accordingly.
7.02 p.m.











THE






House of Assembly Debates





(OFFICIAL REPORT)


SECOND SESSION OF 1961-66


HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY

lue'sday, 12th October, 1965.

Pursuant to the adjournment, the House of Assembly
met at 2.30 p.m. o'clock today.

PRESENT
His Honour J. E. T. BRANCKER, Q.C., (Speaker);
Mr. K.N. R.HUSBANDS; Mr. F. E. MILLER; Mr. E. ST.A.
HOLDER, J.P.; Hon. J. C. TUDOR, M.A., (Msinisterof
Education) Hon. E. W. BARROW, B.Sc., (Premier);
Mr. S. E. SEAL Y; Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON, ministerr
of Agriculture and Fisheries) Mr. W. R. COWARD;|
Ir. R. ST.C. WEEKS, J.P.; Mr. W. R. LOWF Mr. L. A.
LYNCH, J.P.; Mr. G. V. BATSON, (Chairman of Com-
mittees ) Hon. N. W. BOXLL, (Minister of Communica-
tions and Works); Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS, (Ministerof
Trade and Labour).
Prayers were read.

Mr. MOTTLEY, Mr. GODDARD and the Hon. C. E.
TALMA entered the Chamber and took their seats.
MINUTES

Mr. SPEAKER: The Minutes of the meeting of this
Chamber held on 5th October this year have been circulated,
and unless there is any objection, they will be confirmed.

There being no objection, I declare those Minutes duly
to be confirmed.

I have the honour to inform the House that I have re-
ceived a letter dated 12th October, from the Deputy Mar-
shal Messenger and Library Attendant, asking for three
months' leave of absence from his duties with effect from
15th October, 1965.

PAPERS LAID

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, I have been asked
to lay the following document which is Message No. 2/1965
to the Honourable the House of Assembly from His Ex-
cellency the Acting Governor. Message No. 2/1965 reads
as follows:-

HIS EXCELLENCY THE ACTING GOVERNOR
to
THE HONOURABLE THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY

His Excellency the Acting Governor has the honour to
inform the Honourable the House of Assembly that Her
Majesty the Queen and His Royal Highness the Duke of
Edinburghwillvisit Barbados onthe 14th and 15th February
1966, during the course of a tour of the Caribbean.


The Royal Party will be travelling on Her Majesty's
Yacht "Britannia" and will live on board the yacht during
the visit.


12th October, 1965.


W. R. Douglas
Acting Governor,
Government House, Barbados.


Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker, I am commanded
to lay the following:-

Statement showing the sums advanced to the Post-
master General for payment of Money Orders, the amounts
repaid to the Accountant General, and the amounts due by
the various Post Offices to the 31st July, 1965.

GOVERNMENT NOTICES

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, I beg to give notice
of the following:-

Resolution to place the sum of $32,473 at the disposal
of the Government to supplement the Estimates 1965-66,
Part 1 Current as shown in the Supplementary Estimate,
1965-66 No. 18 which forms the Schedule to the Resolution.

Resolution to approve the Regulations entitled "The
Warehousing of Rum in Bond (Amendment) Regulations,
1965."

Resolution to place the sum of $241 at the disposal of
the Government to supplement the Estimates 1965-66, Part
1 Current as shown in the Supplementary Estimate,
1965-66 No. 19 which forms the Schedule to the Resolution.

Resolution to place the sum of $1 at the disposal of
the Government to supplement the Estimates 1965-66,
Part 1 Current as shown in the Supplementary Estimate
1965-66 No. 21 which forms the Scheduleto the Resolution.

I also beg to give notice of the following Resolution:


Resolution requesting Her Majesty's Principal Secre-
tary of State for the Colonies to convene, at the earliest
opportunity, a Conference to arrange the constitutional
financial, defence and other details incidental to, and
arising from, the assumption, by the People of Barbados
of Sovereign Nationhood within the Commonwealth in 1966.


The Resolution reads as follows:-

WHEREAS the pre-election Manifesto of this Govern-
ment, issued in November, 1961, stated inter alia,

"The road to destiny is the road to independence.

Towards this goal the country must press on.







A'.-


As the island has never been a grant-aidedterritory
there is no reason why within orwithouta Federation Bar-
bados should not attain the full stature of independence
now within the British Commonwealth."

AND WHEREAS a Federation of ten British Caribbean
territories then existed, and continued to exist until its
dissolution on 31st May, 1962;

AND WHEREAS this Government has, from January,
1962, to April, 1965, engaged in discussions with the Gov-
ernments of the Windward and Leeward Islands on the
establishment of a new Federation;

AND WHEREAS these discussions were carried on
without hindrance to the constitutional and economic de-
velopment of Barbados, which attained full internal self-
government in May, 1964;

AND WHEREAS these discussions have proved fruit-
less for several reasons, among which are -

(a) the failure of the Government of the United
Kingdom to indicate the quantum of Develop-
ment Finance which would be available to the
new Federation;

(b) the withdrawal of the Governments of Grenada
and Antigua from the discussions;

(c) the stated unwillingness of the Government of
Montserrat to join a Federation which did not
include Antigua;

(d) the unsatisfactory proposals made by the Gov-
ernment of St. Lucia, supported by the Gov-
ernment of Dominica, for the disposal of
Federal Surplus Revenues;

(e) the rejection of the Draft Federal Scheme by
the Government and Legislature of St. Lucia
before the Tenth Meeting of the Regional Coun-
cil of Ministers;

AND WHEREAS these matters have been fully set out
in the White Paper which was laid before this Honourable
House by order of the Cabinet on 17th August, 1965;

AND WHEREAS the Eastern Caribbean Federation
contemplated by the Report of the London Conference 1962
is not immediately possible in the changed circumstances;

AND WHEREASthe Government of Barbados, reaffirm-
ing its dedication to the principle of Regional Association,
will continue after Independence to work in close coopera-
tion with the Governments and Peoples of other Common-
wealth Caribbean Countries to promote by joint endeavour
the complete political, social and economic emancipation
of all classes in all territories;

AND WHEREAS the present Constitution of Barbados
makes no provision for the management, by its citizens,
of their external relations;

AND WHEREAS the General Assembly of the United
Nations, in its resolution of December 14th, 1960, pro-
claimed the necessity of bringing to a speedy and uncon-
ditional end colonialism in all its forms and manifesta-
tions: and adopted a Declaration

(a) that the subjection of peoples to alien domina-
tion constitutes a denial of fundamental human
rights;

(b) that such is contrary to the charter of the
United Nations, and is an impediment to the
promotion of world peace and cooperation;

(c) that inadequacy of political, economic, social
or educational preparedness should never
serve as a pretext for delaying independence;


(d) that all armed action or repressive measures
directed against dependent peoples should
cease in order to enable them to exercise
peacefully and freely their right to complete
independence;

(e) that their national territory should be re-
spected:

(f) that in trust and non-self-governing territor-
ies or other territories which have not yet
attained independence, immediate steps
should be taken to transfer all powers to the
peoples of those territories without any dis-
tinctions as to race, creed, or colour;


AND
states:


WHEREAS paragraph 124 of the White Paper


"The House of Assembly will be asked to agree to
a Resolution requesting the Secretary of State to fix
an early date for a Conference on Independence; and
if agreed to, the Senate will be invited to concur there-
in."

BE IT THEREFORE RESOLVED that this House re-
quests Her Majesty's Principal Secretary of State for the
Colonies to convene, at the earliest opportunity, a Con-
ference to arrange the constitutional, financial, defence
and other details incidental to, and arising from the as-
sumption, by the People of Barbados, of SovereignNation-
hood within the Commonwealth in 1966.

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Senate be
invited to concur herein."
2.55 p.m.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, I beg to give
notice of a Resolution to place the sum of $2,231atthedis-
posal of the Government to Supplement the Estimates
1965-66, Part 1 Current as shown in the Supplementary
Estimate 1965-66 No. 20 which forms the Schedule to the
Resolution.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I rise to give notice
of my intention to move theHouseinto Committee of Supply
at its next meeting to consider the .Money Resolution of
which notice has been given today.

As regards the Resolution of which notice has just been
given by the Hon. and Learned Premier relating to the
Independence of this Island of Barbados, a special date will
be set aside for the debate on it.

PRIVATE MEMBERS' NOTICES

Mr. WEEKES: I beg to give notice of the following
Resolution:-

WHEREAS the sum of two dollars and forty cents ($2.40)
a week for old age pensioners is totally inadequate;

AND WHEREAS these people are compelled to exist on
this meagre amount which can decrease their life span;

AND WHEREAS these people have contributed by their
sweat to the economy of this Island;

BE IT RESOLVED that Government consider the pos-
sibility of including in the Estimates 1966/67 a sufficient
sum of money to ensure thatthey will receive not less than
three dollars ($3.00) a week.

And of the following:-

WHEREAS the children of the parish of St. Philip have
to travel long distances to reach any Government Secondary
Grammar School in the City of Bridgetown;

AND WHEREAS great inconvenience to the children and
hardship to the parents are experienced daily;







1066


AND WHEREAS the erection of a Secondary Grammar
School in the parish of St. Philipwould increase the number;
of places for children in the Grammar Schools in theMuni-
cipality and its surroundings;

BE IT RESOLVEDthatGovernment consider erecting a
Secondary Grammar School in the parish of St. Phillpwith-
out delay.

QUESTIONS

Mr. BATSON: To enquire of the Appropriate Minister:-.

Is Government aware that in many parts of the world,
celebrations depicting many aspects of human endeavour -
such as Tourism oraWeek of the Poor are being patron-
ised by Governments?

2., Is Government also aware that a week of the Poor
Celebrations will initiate a spirit of giving to the poor and
at the same time make the poor conscious that they are not
a forgotten people?

3. If the answers to the above are in the affirmative, will
the Minister approach the appropriate quarters with a view
to implementing week of the Poor Celebration in the not
too distant future?

Mr. WEEKES: To enquire oftheAppropriateMinister:

Will the appropriate Minister state when the pro-
gramme for erecting public baths in each of the parishes
served by the Southern District Councilwill be implement-
ed?

Mr. HOLDER: To enquire of the AppropriateMinister:-

Is the Government aware that there is great dissatis-
faction among stamp vendors overthe regulations governing
the conditions of sale of Postage Stamps to them for sale
to the general public?

2. Will theGovernment take the necessary steps to ensure
that (a) Commissions on all stamps to be placed at 5%, in-
stead of 5% commission up to stamps of five cents deno-
mination, and 2 1/2 on all other denominations?

(b)in orderto accommodate the general public, stamps
vendors be allowed to sell all stamps up to the value of
twenty-five cents?

Mr. SEALEY: To enquire of the Appropriate Minister:-

Is Government aware that the residents who live ad-
jacent to the following roads in the parish of St. Michael
Viz.:

1st Avenue, Green Hill;I
2nd Avenue, Green Hill;
3rd Avenue, Green Hill;
4th Avenue, Green Hill;
Baycroft New Road;
School Road; and Glendairy Road;
experience great hardship owing to the fact that there is no
water supply easily available to them for domestic use?
2. Will Government see to it that water mains are
placed in each of the above roads fortheuse of the inhabi-
tants thereof?

Mr. SEALEY: To enquire of the Appropriate Minister:-

Is Government aware that Skeete's Road, Howell's
Cross Road in the parish of Saint Michael is well-nigh
impassable to vehicular traffic at all times, and even to
pedestrian traffic after heavy rainfall?

2. Will Government treat as a priority the repairs of the
said road?

Mr. SEALEY: To enquire of the AppropriateMinister:-


Is Government aware that because of the lack of proper
drainage, the residents of School Road, Baycroft New
Road all in the parish of St.Michael suffer grave incon-
venience owing to (a) the deposit of refuse from other
districts on their lands; (b) the flooding of their premises
after a heavy rainfall; and (c) the prevalence of mosquitoes
as a direct result thereof?

2. Will Government take steps as speedily as possible to
lay a proper system of drainage in the said districts and
so remove the nuisances above complained of?
3.05 p.m.

Mr. SPEAKER: Again the same hon. member, his
Question relative to Glendairy Road.

Mr. SEALEY: Mr. Speaker, to enquireof the Appropri-
ate Minister:-

Will Government as soon as possible repair and extend
Glendairy Road, St. Michael, to the gully which separates
the same road from Glendairy Prison?

DEPUTY MARSHAL: MESSENGER & LIBRARY
ATTENDANT GRANTED LEAVE

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move that the
request of the Deputy Marshal, Library Attendant & Mes-
senger for three month's leave of absence as from 15th
October, 1965, be granted, and that Mr. Orville Best be
appointed to act in his place.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.

The question was put and resolved in the affirm-
ative without division.

SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDERS

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move the sus-
penison of Standing Orders 5, 14, 16, 18, 40 and 45 for the
remainder of today's sitting.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.

The question was put and resolved in the affirm-
ative without division.

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move that
Government Business be now taken.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.

The question was put and resolved in the affirm-
ative without division.

RESOLUTION TO APPROVE THE CIVIL ESTABLISH-
MENT (GENERAL) (AMENDMENT)
(NO. 6) ORDER 1965

Mr. SPEAKER: It is now time for Government Busi-
ness.The first Order of the Day under that Head stands in
the name of the Honourable and Learned senior member
for St. John:-

To move the passing of the following Resolution:-
Resolution to approve "The Civil Establishment (General)
(Amendment) (No. 6) Order 1965."

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, the Resolution which
is now before us, deals with increases in staff inthe Regis-
tration Office, the Economic Planning Unit, the Ministry of
Finance, the Customs Department and the Prisons. If I may
explain the position, the first part of the Resolution deals
with the Registration Office andtherewill be the creation
of the following additional posts: One Deputy Registrar, one
Executive Officer for the Courts, one Accountant, three
senior Clerks, six Clerical Assistants, one Secretary and
one Copy Typist. In the Economic Planning Unit, which is







1067


under my Portfolio, we need an additional permanent post
of Long Grade Clerk. In the Ministry of Finance, there is
the necessity of two Assistant Secretaries and three Sten-
ographers. Whenwe cometothe Customs Department, there
has been a long history of understaffing and we propose to
rectify that by making the additional post of Office Super-
intendent, three posts of Assistant Supervisors, and twelve
Long Grade Clerks. The office of six of the nineteen posts
of Assistant Supervisor will be upgraded as senior
Assistant Supervisor. There will be twenty-five posts
of Customs Guards with increased emoluments in the upper
brackets; there will be five Senior Customs Guards in the
salary scale of $1,872 $2,352. This was actually re-
commended by the Salaries Commissioner in 1961, so that
there will be some incentive for these Customs Guards.
The lower ranks of Customs Guards willgofrom $1,128 -
$1,896 which isa considerable improvement in the salaries
of all these officers.

Some time ago, in connection with the Prisons, I ex-
pressed my concern as to the employment of uniformed
Warders in the office of Superintendent which led toa cer-
tain amount of jealousy, dissatisfaction and lack of disci-
pline in the Institution. We have now decided to remove
all the uniformed Cfficers from the office of the Prison
where they came to be regarded as a privileged branch
of the Prison Service, and to move in three Long Grade
Clerks and one Typist in the office to perform the duties
concerning the government of the Prison. The other point
is that in putting out the advertisement for the post of
Superintendent to be living in the precincts of the prison.
There will therefore be additional accommodation for the
Warders, for of lice staff and for the interviewing of guar-
dians and inmates of that Institution. I therefore beg to move
that this Resolution to approve the Order entitled "The
Civil Establishment (General) (Amendment) (No. 6) Order,
1965 which was made by the Cabinet on the 16th September,
1965, under the provisions of section 3 of the Civil Estab-
lishment Act, 1949, do now pass.
3.15 p.m.
Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.
The question was put and resolved in the affirm-
ative without division,

COMPULSORY ACQUISITION OF LAND AT
ST. SIMONS, ST. ANDREW
Mr. SPEAKER: The next Order of the Day stands in
the name of the Hon. Minister of Education, Leader of the
House, to move the passing of a Resolution to approve the
compulsory acquisition by the Crown of a parcel of land
at St. Simon's in the parish of Saint Andrew.

Hon. J, C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I think the members
of the House will see clearly from the Addendum that this
concerns a small bit of land adjacent to St. Simon's School
in the parish of St. Andrew.The owner cannot give good
and marketable title in accordance with the provisions of
the Land Acqusition Act, and we are seeking therefore the
approval of the Legislature for the compulsory acquisition
in order that the purpose set out in the Resolution may be
effected and the Government may acquire an indefeasible
title.

Hon. members may also wish to know that this bit of
land is very small and, as I said, is adjacent to the school
andthereare manyways in which it can be used especially
for extending the school garden.

I beg to move that this Resolution do now pass.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.

The question was put and resolved in the affirm-
ative without division,

THE SUGAR INDUSTRY(REHABILITATION,
PRICE STABILIZATION AND LABOUR
WELFARE) ORDER, 1965

Mr. SPEAKER: The next order of the Day stands in the
name of the hon. junior member for St.Michael, theMinis-


ter of Agriculture and Fisheries, and that is to move the
passing of a Resolution to approve the Order entitled "The
Sugar Industry (Rehabilitation, Price Stabilization and La-
bour Welfare) Order, 1965."

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON. Mr. Speaker, this Resolution
seeks the approval of the Order made by the Cabinet on 16th
September, 1965, under the provisions of the Sugar Industry
(Rehabilitation, Price Stabilization and Labour Welfare)
Act, 1947.

Mr. Speaker, by an agreement made in 1956 the levies
on sugar and fancy molasses manufactured in the Island
authorised under the Act were allocated between the Price
Stabilisation Reserve Fund, the Rehabilitation Reserve
Fund and the Labour Welfare Fund. The allocation to the
Labour Welfare Fund includes provision at the rate of fifty
cents per ton sugar and per 290 gallons fancy molasses
for the credit of the Sugar Factory Workers Severance
Payments Fund and at the rate of one dollar per ton sugar
and per 290 gallons fancy molasses for the credit of the
Provident Fund for workers in the Sugar Industry.

I beg to move that the Sugar Industry (Rehabilitation,
Price Stabilisation and Labour Welfare) Order, 1965, do
now pass.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: I beg to second that.

The question was put and resolved in the affirm-
ative without division.

THE CUSTOMS (AMENDMENTS) ACT, 1965

Mr. SPEAKER: The next Orderof the Day stands in the
name of the Hon. and LearnedmemberforSt. John, and it
is the second reading of a Bill to amend the Customs Act,
1962.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: The purpose of this Bill, Mr.
Speaker, is to amend the Customs Act, 1962, to make it
possible for the refund of monies overpaid by way of cus-
toms duties to be given back, provided the claims were
presented to the Comptroller of Customs withintwoyears
after the overpayment may have been made.

Under Section 131 of the Act as it stands, the refund
has to be made within two years of the date of overpayment.
As long as the claim was made within two years of over-
payment, it would be possible for the Accountant General
to repay the money at any time after the expiration of two
years, provided the statement was presented within the
statutory time. It is not a very complicated provision; it is
not anything that will deprive the Treasury of the Island
of money to which it is justly entitled. We have many in-
stances in which money is overpaid either under protest
or under the state of law, and you will remember that in
1962 I removed about $1/2 million of drawbacks out of the
Estimates, and another $1/2 million from the Commissioner
of Inland Revenue for refund of overpaidtaxesand matters
of that kind, thereby decreasing theoretically the total on
both sides of the ledgetby $1 million,and it is not now done
by a vote of the Legislature, but this is a rightwhich the
Comptroller of Customs and the Commissioner of Inland
Revenue have to exercise. There must be some legal au-
thority for the Accountant Genreal to pay out these refunds
because although the drawbacks and refunds are authorised
by these two Heads of Department, the money has to come
out of the Treasury and has to be paid under the state of
law.
3.25 p.m.


The simple provision made is that people must lodge
their claim. Under the Statute of Limitations, I think it Is
known that so long as you file your claim, you are not en-
titled to judgment Just because the statutory time has
elapsed.

This is only one short amendment to Section 131 of the
Customs Act and I beg to move that this Bill be now read
a second time.








1088


Hon. C E. TALMA: I beg to second that.
The question was put and resolved in the affirm-
ative without division.
On motion of Hon" J. C. Tudor, seconded by Hon.
C. E. Talma, Mr. Speaker left the Chair and the House
went into Committee on the Bill, Mr. Batson in the Chair.
Clauses 1 and 2 were called separately and passed.
On motion of Hon. J. C. Tudor, seconded by Hon.
C. E. Talma, Mr. Chairman reported the passing of one
Bill in Committee.
Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair and reported accord-
ingly.
On separate motions of Hon. J. C. Tudor, seconded
by C. E. Talma, in each case, the Bill was read a third
time and passed.
EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE (VESTING OF
PROPERTY AND TRANSFER OF
FUNCTIONS) (AMENDMENT)
BILL; 1965.
Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, with respect to Order
No. 5 which deals with a Bill to make provision for the
orderly and progressive development of land in both Urban
and Rural areas, it has not yet been printed; therefore, it
will not be proceeded with at this stage.

I beg to move that Order No. 6 be taken as the next
item of Government Business.
Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.

The question was put and resolved in the affirm-
ative without division,
Mr. SPEAKER: Order No. 6 stands in the name of the
hon. and learned senior member for St. John: Second read-
ing of a Bill to amend the Executive Committee (Vesting
of Property and Transfer of Functions) Act, 1964.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, theGovernmentof
Barbados has nowbecomea very substantial property owner
in this Island. We have had several leases for a long period
of time over property, even of Government premises to
Government officers and other persons for the purpose of
residential use, without coming before the Legislature or
this House for approval of such leases or disposal, although
under the old Executive Committee Act of 1891 which has
been amended between 1945 and 1963 no less than ten or
eleven times, you will find that all properties belonging to
Government and vested in the Executive Committee, and
their successors in office for an estate in fee simple in
possession in trust for the public of this island, andinthe
case of the personal property in trust for thepublic of this
Island under the constitutional arrangements by which
we are governed no grant,or disposal of Governmentl
lands, or existing property should be undertaken without
the approval of the Legislature.

I, myself, have queried the legality of the letting of
houses of Government to a Government servant without
the approval of the Legislature.

This matter has been gone into for the past two years
under the guidance of a Professor at Law at Sheffield Uni-
versity who is now in Nigeria and the Law Revision Com-
mittee, and they both have recommended that it would be
rather cumbersome if every time, say, that a Civil Servant
or anybody wasto have the letting of a house, we should have
to come to the House of Assembly to ask that it should be
done.

I should like to make it clear that any disposal of Gov-
ernment land by way of sale, lease, exchange, grant, assign-
ment or surrender will continue to be made only with the
approval of the Legislature and that approval will have to
be ex ante and not ex post facto; so there is no danger in
the provisions of this Bill that any Government[land will
be alienated without the approval of the Legislature, as we
have seen within recent time, within the last four years,'
that is to say, shortly before this Government assumed
office.
3.35 p.m.


When we come to a licence to cross high water mark,
that is not a ,ease or disposal of Government land. In the
question of the right to drive cane-carts across Govern-.
ment land, recently we have had to come tothe Legislature
in order to facilitate certain tenants in the parish of-St.
John; we had to lease a right of way to Clifton Hall Planta-
tion in order that the peasants could get out their canes.
Although the work was not being undertaken by anyGovern-
ment department, before they could put a bulldozer on that
land, we had to come to the Legislature and get a lease to
do what was to be done at the expense of the owners of the
plantation. Under the provisions of this Bill, which is an
amendment to the Executive Committee (Vesting of Pro-
perty and Transfer of Functions) Act, 1964, we are making
it possible for the Minister, who is for the time being
charged with the responsibility for lands, to grant licenses
for the purpose of erecting groynes, and we have several
applications of this sort, to grant the right of"way for the
use of Government lands or even to execute an agreement
for profits a prendre. You can grant a person a licence to
take away benefit from lands. I can give a man permission
to take soft stone from my landwithout necessarily leasing
him the land other than giving him the right of way to and
from the land.

The people at Bagatelle had a lease of our land, and
when we wanted to remove the high explosive substances
from Powder Road because of the danger of explosion which
existed at the time, we had to go and ask the lessees of
Bagatelle Quarry to give us permission to place the ex-
plosive substances in the quarry. If we had profits a, prendre
if we had the right of access to the easement ourselves, we
would have been in full control of the land, and we would
not have had to ask forpermissionto go there. The justifi-
cation for this Bill, however, arose out of the necessity to
construct, groynes without any undue delay and to lease
facilities in the Harbour, let us say, and the necessity for
the disposing of high explosives which would have to be
stowed away.

Mr. Speaker, I have explained all that, not for your
benefit but for the benefit of those who are not fully initiated
in the mysteries of this matter. You cannot use a man's
land without his permission; there was no such thing up to
the last time that I had knowledge of the law, and in this
case, there is no danger of any person being selected for
any special privilege as such. I think I have fully elucidated
the necessity and the reason for this Bill, and I give the
assurance that the purpose of this Bill is not to take away
any person's property, but merely to facilitate the con-
struction of groynes and things of that sort so that the work
will be more expeditiously done than is the case at present.
I beg to move that this Bill be now read a second time.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.

Mr. MILLER: Mr. Speaker, I should just like to make
a few remarks in connection with this Bill. I recollect quite
clearly that at the Constitutional Conference whenwe were
seeking internal self-government, we sought to retain the
functions of the Executive Committee. It is a question of
what should be done with Government land; I think that the
only function for which that Committee existed was to re-
tain control of the land. Although the Hon. Premier was at
some pains to explain the purpose of this amendment, I
would be glad if he would give us a little further enlighten-
ment on Section 2 of this Bill. This is what the Section
says:-

2. Subsection (1) of section 5 of the Executive Committee
(Vesting of Property and Transfer of Functions) Act, 1964
is hereby repealed and replaced as follows:-

5. (1) The Minister may -

(a) grant a licence to use any land vested in the
Crown in right of its Government of this Is-
land for any purpose or for such purpose as
are mentioned in the licence; or

(b) grant by way. of licence 'or letting any ease-
ment, profit or right in respect of such lands;
or






1069


(c) with the approval of the Legislature of this Is-
land sell, lease exchange, grant, assign or
surrender any such land.
This really robs the Executive Committee of its main
functions and purposes. There is nothing wrong in the
changeover, but because of internal self-government, you
would like to feel that that is run by a Minister or a Minis-
try under the Cabinet System. I do not see why it is neces-
sary to make the change at all.
3.45 p.m.
It is not clear to me why it is necessary to make the
change at all, because the Executive Committee was subject
to the control of Parliament, and the Cabinet is under
similar control. The reason why we have retained this
August body is because it has been with us allthese years.
I am not saying it is wrong, but there would have to be
some reason-to change. If the hon. senior member for St.
John would favour us with anything further to what he has
said, it would at least give us a simple reason why under
the Cabinet system these matters would haveto be brought
by one of the Ministers. This is really taking the teeth, if
not the vital fluid in the blood, out of the existence of the
SExecutive Committee.
Mr. SPEAKER: Section 2 may be more properly ex-
plained when the House goes into Committee.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: I am in some considerable dif-
ficulty, Mr. Speaker, because in the firstinstancel did not
hear what the hon. member had to say, what I did hear I
did not understand, and what I did understand I did not
appreciate, because the hon. member should be in a posi-
tion to read the provisions of the Bill, as he himself has
been a member of the Executive Committee and should be
aware of the functions.
Mr. SPEAKER: I must apologise to the House for not
having enquired before the hon. member replied, if there
was any otherhon. memberwho desired to contribute to this
debate.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Maybe there will be an inter-
preter among hon. members.
Mr. SPEAKER: Possibly a linguist, but not an inter-
preter as such. It appears that there is no other hon. mem-
ber who seeks to contribute to this debate. Let the hon.
member for St. John continue.
Hon. E. W. BARROW: This is not a question of delega-
tion of the functions of the Executive Committee which no
longer exists anyhow. There is no Executive Committee
in Barbados at the moment; we abolished the Executive
Committee last year and we substituted a full Cabinet
system of Government. No papers now go to the Financial
Secretary or the Attorney General or anybody like that, The
purpose of amending the Executive Committee Act is to
transfer to the Cabinet all the powersand functions former-
ly vested in the Executive Committee by the Act of 1891
which is hereby repealed. This is not a question of trans-
ferring from the Cabinet to the Minister in charge the
authority to do these things. This is vesting the Minister
in charge of lands with power to do somethingwhich is not
done atall and I will explain that in a moment and
secondly to remove certain trivial dispensations from the
grant of leases in the first instance. I explained in detail
what such grants were: from licences for the construction
of groynes, to giving somebody the right to pass over Gov-
ernment land.
What I want to state categorically right now is that the
better legal opinion, which always resides only in this
Party, is that all these leases of Governmentpremises to
Government servants were strictly not done in accordance
with the Executive Committee Act and should have been
done by the House of Assembly, because they did not fol-
low the law. When I say "They", I mean that the former
administration did not adhere to strict letter of the law be-
cause Itwas the disposal of Government land in some form
or the other, and therefore what lam trying to do now is to
make :sure that there is some authority other than the.
Legislature which apparently does not want to be concerned
and bothered with Government rentals some authority
other than the Chief Personnel Officer or the Director of


the Public Works Department who will exercise this
function on behalf of the Legislature andwilllay a statement
showing the disposals so effected during the year on the
table of the House and the Senate. We are not removing
from the Cabinet and transferring to theMinistercertain
powers, because if the Cabinet had that authority, we would
not come to the Legislature because we have permission
under the Constitution of this Country to delegate any
function vested by law in the Cabinet of the Island toany
individual Minister, and that is done every single week.

I have been reminded that the Cabinet delegated to the
Minister of Health for very obvious reasons onlythis morn-
ing when we had two emergency cases the right to authorise
expenditure for the treatment of Barbadians abroad. If
somebodyhad abraintumor; the procedure now is that we
would have to carry out an investigation, and then the matter
has to be submitted in the form of a Cabinet Paper, and the
Cabinet normally meets only once a week on Thursday
mornings and prepares its business forthe Legislature for
the following week. This morning we delegated authority to
the making of such expenditure, andauthorisingthe expen-
diture of such sums and plane passages and hospital accom-
modation to the Minister, which means that the Senior
Medical Officer, whoever he may be, whether he is a sur-
geon or Physician, can get directly in touch with the Min-
istry and say 'there is an emergency case here; there is
no treatment available in Barbados: there is a plane leaving
the island this evening;' and the Minister without any
elaborate paraphernalia of Government Papers will author-
ise the money and let the person leave. In this way we can
save at least five days of Government procedure and pro-
bably a lot of lives as well. This is what we mean by dele-
gation. this is not a transfer of authority at all. Except
in so far as approving of this Bill, the House will not be so
delegating but transferring to the Minister in charge of
lands something which the House has failed todo, has not
been concerned about and should have been doing, but which
we think ought to come under some regular procedure;
and we are merely saying that licences, easements and
profits a,prendre should be under the jurisdiction of the
Minister, and he should now make a statement once per
annum, disclosing to the Legislature all the transactions
that had taken place in this respect during the past year.
The question that this Bill be now read a second
time was put and resolved in the affirmative without
division.
3.55 p.m.


On motion of Hon. J. C. Tudor, seconded by Hon.
C. E. Talma, Mr. Speaker left the Chair and the House
went into Committee on the Bill, Mr. Batson in the Chair.

Clauses 1, 2, and 3 were called and passed.

On motion of Hon. I. C. Tudor, seconded by Hon.
C. E. Talma, Mr. Chairman reported th e passing of one
Bill in Committee.

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair and reported accord-
ingly.

On separate motions of Hon. I. C. Tudor, seconded
by Hon. C" E. Talma in each case, the Bill was read a
third time and passed.

FISHERIES REGULATION (AMENDMENT)
BILL; 1965.

Mr. SPEAKER: The next Order of the Day stands In
the name of theHon.Minister ofAgricultureand Fisheries:
Second reading of a Bill to amend the Fisheries Regulation

Hon. G, ,G FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker, for a number
of years between the months ofJuneandNovember chiefly
the entire coast of this Island has been subjected to the
dynamiting of fish: and in recent years, with the greater
:demand for fish and higher prices paid for this commodity
this bad practice has increased.






1070


The using of dynamite not onlykills the fish which can
be used for consumption, but it also kills small fish spawn
which will eventually provide us with fish in future years.
This bad practice of dynamiting fish is even worse than that.
All marine life ceases to exist fora number of years in the
area around which dynamite is thrown, and fish will not
spawn in this area.

It is therefore necessary to make a very tight check
and to bring the law into force to stop this very bad prac-
tice if the inhabitants of this Island are to be able to pur-
chase or have any fish during the months of July to
November.

The purpose of this Bill therefore is to amend the
Fisheries Regulation Act, 1904 as to make it unnecessary
for the prosecution in a case brought under subsection (3)
of section 19 thereof to prove that the fish which the accused
is alleged to have brought, attempted to buy or to have in
his possession was taken or destroyedwithintheterritorial
waters of this Island by the use of dynamite or any other
explosive substance.

I therefore beg to move that this Bill be now read a
second time.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.

Mr. CORBIN: Mr. Speaker, this Bill which we have
before us, I must say, is a very goodone,I remember
few years ago when the Gulf Oil Company was operating
here that they went around the whole Island digging holes,
using depth charges:and it is trueto say that million of tons
of fish were destroyed as a result. I consider that was one
of the greatest hindrances (to the Island of Barbados. They
said that they were checking oil lines.

I am rather glad to see that the Hon. Minister of
Fisheries has brought to this House a Bill of this nature
because I agree that people should cease to dynamite fish.
These people do not think that not only do they destroy the
fish used for human consumption, but they also destroy the
young. To have a protection like this, I think it will bring
fishermen I to their senses. I congratulate the Government
for bringing a Bill of this nature into force.

The question that the Bill be now read a second
time was put and resolved in the affirmative without
division.

On motion of Hon. I. C. Tudor, seconded by Hon.
C. E. Talma, Mr. Speaker left the Chair and the House
went into Committee on the Bill, Mr. Batson in the Chair.
4.05 p.m.

The two Clauses of the Bill were called and passed.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Chairman, I begtomove
that you do now report the passing of this Bill in Committee.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.
The question was put and resolved in, the affirm-
ative without division.
The CHAIRMAN reported and Mr. SPEAKER resumed
the Chair and reported accordingly.
On motions of Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON, seconded by
Hon. C. E. Talma in each case, the Bill was read a
third time and passed.
WAGES COUNCIL (AMENDMENT) BILL

Mr. SPEAKER: The next Order of the Day stands in the
name of the Hon. Minister of Trade and Labour: To move
the second reading of a Bill to amend the Wages Council
Act, 1955.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, ih 1961 re-
presentation was made by the Wages Councilforan amend-
ment to the Shops Act so as to make provision for atten-
dants, to be given sick leave with pay. After some negotia-
tions, the Cabinet on the-29th August, 1962, approved the


making of the necessary regulations after an amendment
was made to the Wages Council Act, 1955. I do not know
who in the Mi:'Astry of Trade owned shops or who had
affiliations with the people who owned shops; but what I do
know is that it has taken from 1962 up to the present time
for this amendment to be dealt with here. However, Sir,
recent alliances between certain people who claim to
represent labour and people who represent employers
have shown quite clearly whowasthe person or the persons
in the Ministry responsible for this delay. I am not saying
that the Civil Servants were responsible for the delay, but
I would like to make my position quite clear. I am just
saying that there was this delay, this unwarranted delay,
in dealing with this matter, which is a burning shame. I
would like to get the record straight.

This bit of legislation is one of the most important
bits of legislation for the working classes of this country,
and anyone who denies workerof the social benefits which
he should have from the organization in which he is work-
ing, could only be looked upon as an unfaithful person. These
negotiations to which I have referred included the matter
of the granting of sick leave for three months, the first
two weeks on full pay and the next four weeks on half pay
and then without pay. This privilege was denied the workers
of this country for over three years. It is true that we are
currently considering the question of social security and
this was one of the provisions of socialsecurity; but at the
same time, whileithe grassis growing the horse is starving.
The provisions of social security would be even morel
attractive than what we are dealing with now, but that does
not stand to reason that this provision relatingtothe grant
oi sick leave with pay to workers, should have been delayed
for three years. Under this Bill the workers will have to
produce a doctor's certificate to the employerwithinthree
days from the beginning of their illness, andthe employers,
according to the representation which was made by the
Wages Council, are free to have a verification of the cer-
tificate by a medical practitioner of their own choice.
Under these proposals, an employer cannot dismissaper-
son who is enjoying the benefits of sick leave during the
time that he is receiving these benefits. Mr. Speaker, this
is a very simple Bill and I therefore beg to move that this
Bill be now read a second time.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.

Mr. WALCOTT: Mr. Speaker, Ihave some strong views
about Wages Councils. In the middle of the 20th century
where Trade Unions become to be understood, I do not
like the passing of legislation in order to assist people who
contract out of their responsibility.
4.15 p.m.

I have always been opposed to Wages Councils where
you have Trade Unions existing. Wages Councils suit the
beginning of the century when Trade Unionswereweak and
could not do an effective job for the workers. In an age like
this it assists workers to be lazy and indifferent about
their own affairs, because you get some legislation passed
and politicians now and then would look at a little bit of
labour legislation and fool the workers off that something
is being done. In this country we haveWages Councils that
operate in Bridgetown, but all you see is that the merchants
are making their stores bigger. One has just been opened
out here, and you get the Legislature underwriting the
Wage structure that exists. The Model Store, Manning's &,
Company Limited and DaCosta's have been expanding, but
the ignorant, idiotic workers are labouring under thisidea
of $18 a week as a minimum,and you get members of the,
Legislature at election time raising frills and noises about
other things, and they let the basic things in the community
go by the board. Many of the stores in Bridgetown have been
renovated not for the sake of making them look better, but
on the basis that they are making money, and you get pic-
tures in the papers of one hundred people applying for twen-
ty jobs; but when you look atthevalue of the jobs for which
they apply, you realise what the situation is. If the Wages
Council is going to have anything in this age, it should be
like the American system where you show the minimum
wage that anybody is going to pay in an industrial undertak-
ing shall be $X per hour or per week, because only yes-







1071


terday I was engaged in a long exercise with the hon.
junior member for ChristChurch, and if there was legisla-
tion dealing with the sector with which we were dealing,
though it is a sector that was in the doldrums for many
years, such would not be the case. We had to sit down
round a table forthree hours, but maybe the workers should
negotiate their wages for themselves; but sooner or later
the persons underwriting these things are goingto come to
their senses.

I have no objection to this amendment for leave con-
ditions. We have an Act on the Statute Book giving two
weeks' annual holiday with pay, but we have in one or two
instances got some employers to agree to threeweeks and
to four weeks. In some instances some employers have
agreed to two weeks' sick leavewith pay, but some employ-
ers do not care anything about investing in the workers. I
will give a simple example. When we went on the docks,
we were able to demonstrate to the people in the docks
that if you put 2% of the workers' wages into a sick fund,
you would be able to provide theworkerswith lots of bene-
fits. We have done thatforfouryears, and it has shown that
there is a surplus in the sick fund with which you can im-
prove the benefits given to the workers. If it is done this
way, the employers in Barbados will wake up; and if they
do now wake up, there is going to be legislation to make
them wake up. I find that employers here do not put aside
money for the workers; they put asidemoneyfor machines
and for buildings, but they believe that when they pay a
worker a wage, thought it is low, that they have supplied
him with all the needs.

The wages in Bridgetown are still shameful, and in a
way I am glad that they are. That is the only thing that
will make the clerks and the shop assistants come totheir
senses. Everybody gives you the excuse about the number of
people they employ. There is not legislation in Barbados
which says how many people any man must employ in any
business, and the threat that they always use against the
workers is that when they increase the wages they would
have to employ less people, which means that they are
philanthropic now in employing more people than they want,
because they are employing people for the sake of employ-
ing them. You do not tell a sensible man that. You employ
the people you require. Some of these people in Bridgetown
are working for less than a maid at the Barbados Workers
Union is getting, because she gets $25 a week, while they
are working in storesfor$18a week or $75 or $80 a month.
I regard that as shameful, and in the process of time we
hope to deal with the people who are supporting it, because
they are the same people to which some members of this
Chamber are appealing to return them to this Chamber, but
when it comes to the basic requirements, they forget.

I feel that Wages Councils days are over. If the work-
ers take the bull by the horn and realse thatthepower lies
in their own hands, they will bring these people to their
senses. I have no doubt about whattheMinister said about
labour legislation. I have saidtothe Premierand I will say
in this House that the whole construction of the Portfolio
in this Island is unscientific. No man in labour has any
right dealing with trade at the same time, because they are
incongruous. A man who sees after trade is going to find
it difficult to be pursuing the militant line for labour as he
should, because all the traders want him to introduce legis-
lation with the-profit motive. The Minister who looks after
trade thinks in terms of getting trade, not in terms of
protecting labour. He thinks in terms of trade in the first
instance, and that is understandable; but a man who is
Minister of Labour, maybe together with another portfolio
that is more consonant with labour, maybe something like
agriculture where there would be no conflict because one
is the growing of crops, would not have that conflict in deal-
ing with them. As soon as you mix trade with labour in
these parts, you have a milk and water situation.

I have lived in this country from the beginning ofMin-
isterial Government and this situation'has existed all the.
time. You had a i Minister of Labour coming down here
with the effrontery talking about labour legislation, like
in the last Government, as if he was a member of the,


Conservative Government, saying that peaceful,picketing
was obnoxious legislation, because he was totally ignorant
of what peaceful picketing within the context of the Trade
Union law really meant. Similarly in each Government I
have seen this using of labour legislation to say that he is
the person who is responsible for the workers getting this
king of legislation, but he is only using labour as a means
of buttressing hisown political prestige when it suits him,
to say that he is the great godfather, and had it not been
for him they would not have had this law on the Statute Book.
4.25 p.m.

I fell that the provision of Wages Councils isa media-
eval kind of legislation. I do not believe in legislation to
help people contract out of their responsibility. We live in
an age of progress and workers should be made to under-
stand. I realise that this kind of legislation will suit poli-
ticians. They like to have a lot of floating votes of those
people who are not in the Trade Union and who would appeal
to a lot of hash and with some nebulous bogus argument that
they have in relationship to these things. These people
should now join a strong organisation whichhasto sit down
around table and negotiate for better wages and conditions
for them. No matter what legislation you are going to pass,
you cannot give them the right to do that. Wages Councils
militate against people seeing after their rights, and these
Councils perpetuate these low standards of wages in some
of the trades where Wages Councils are set up.

Some dissatisfaction at present exists in the garment
industry andweintendtoputan end to that. You have this
low type of wages in existence at the expense of good,
basic wages. You have Indians and other foreign people
coming here and doing trade and making a handsome profit
but paying out a very low wage to the workers. I was very
pleased to see one of these stores opened in more commo-
dious quarters, but the wages which they are paying in
these stores are not commensurate with the success which
you see accruing to the owners iof these stores. I heard
the speeches made in respect of the last store which opened
in new quarters and I hope wages would be in keeping with
higher standards and that the workers would also receive
better conditions.

Mr. HUSBANDS: Mr, Speaker, I am in agreement with
what the hon. member who has just sat down has said and I
fully appreciate his stand as a trade unionist. On the other
hand, Ido not agree with him in all aspects of his speech. I
must say this. We have a Trade Union Act and we also have
freedom of association. Would be the last personto criticise
any awakening on the part of the workers, but at the same
time 1 do not think that Government really would be said to
be responsible if it did not providethis sort of legislation. I
believe that workers in an organisation are in a better
position to demand better wages and conditions of service,
but workers who benefit by the proposal of Wage Councils,
they too have to be protected and I think that this acaseof
protection.

I for myself am very glad to see that there is some
improvement being made in this matter by providing some
measure of sick allowances for these people. I was under
the impression that certain laws already existedinthis re-
spect; therefore, I do not know if this is to improve the
matter or if this initiates. I am not very sure of that. How-
ever, I certainly view this matter, by reason of the fact
that many workers have not yet been orgainised, by reason
of the fact that many workers have not yet been organised
in the very militant trade Union or other Trade Unions in
Barbados, that we as such cannottellworkerswhich Trade
Union to join because that is not our policy, that those work-
ers who work in stores in the City area who do not have
sufficient guts to stand up and ask for better conditions for
themselves and who are lacking in the spirit to combine
should also be represented by some organisation to see
after better conditions of service for them. Therefore, I
commend the Government for trying its best as far as
possible to ameliorate conditions in this matter.Naturally,
workers who are not organised cannot hope to be able to
obtain conditions of service similartothosewhoare organ-
ised. They cannot hope |to obtain all the known benefits to







1072


the workers who belong to a militant and active Trade union;
but there is still to be found in all places workers with re-
sponsibility who have not yet decidedtojoin a trade union,
and Government is responsible for every man, woman and
child in this country. Therefore,arewe going to brand those
workers and say because they do not belong to a Trade Union
that they are lazy and indifferent?

I commend the present Government for making any
improvement whatsoever in the conditions of workers in
this country who are not in a militant trade union. It is the
function of the Secretaries of Trade Unions to bring these
workers into their fold; but in spite of all the known and
proclaimed benefits that organised workers can achieve for
themselves, there are still to be found In the City and in
the country, workers whose responsibility is still theGov-
ernment's to see to it that their conditions are improved.
Therefore, my slant is a little different from that of the
hon. member who has just sat down. Naturally, I would ex-
pect him to make the speech he has because he is a militant
trade unionist; but, as a member of this House, I must say
that until the time comes when these people become more
conscious, more knowledgeable, and more determined that
they should form themselves into organisationswherethey
can demand better conditions for themselves, the Govern-
ment cannot afford to let those people suffer.
4.35 p.m.

I am aware of that. As members of this House, we
cannot advise persons against joining a Trade Union. I do
not think that any of us would dare to do so, not in the open,
at any rate, we cannot afford to do so in this day and age.
However, there are some people who will always make
themselves the responsibilities of people who have more
vision than they have. Therefore, if this measure seeks to
improve the working conditions of an organized lot of
workers in this country, if theseworkers are now to benefit
by an improved condition of service, then we welcome that.
There is a section of this Billwhichmakes some provision
as to the security of workers; under that section no notice
of dismissal may be given during the time when a worker is
ill. I do not think that that is really a problem; the problem
is that the dismissal may comewhen the worker returnslto
work from illness or when he returns from his holiday.

Sir, from my experience in this matter, I do not think
that there is much trouble coming from any notice of dis-
missal being given during the time when the worker is ill
or when he is on holiday, but I think that the Labour Depart-
ment and the Trade Union Officials are aware of the fact
that dismissals are given after the workers returnto their
work. I think that that is where the necessary provision
should be made. Mr. Speaker, I am in favour of this Meas-
ure and I hope that as time goes on I will be able to give
my assent to a greater measure of improvement for these
workers even through arrangements made by Wages Coun-
cils.

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker,......

Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. senior member for St. An-
drew caught my eye soon after the hon. junior member for
St. Peter rose to speak.

Mr. CORBIN: Mr. Speaker, I have great pleasure in
supporting this Bill. The reason why I have risen to say
something on it is because I am Chairman of the Guardians
Committee for St. Andrew and I knowthatthere are people
who work in the various categories and when they are taken
ill they have to come to the Board in order to be given a
crumb. I should like to saythat ifa Bill of this nature were
in existence before, these people would have been able to
obtain something from their employers which would help
them until the time comes when thefyare able to go back
out to their work. It is not a good thing after a man has
been working for ten years or twenty years for an employer
and then he becomes ill, he hasto remain at home without
being granted any relief. Accordingto this Bill, if a worker
becomes ill on his work or at home, he will be granted sick
leave with pay and that will ease the public. In my parish,
a poor man who isunabletoworkis getting 50 cents a week


when he is granted relief by the Board. Mr. Speaker, you
will know how much is fifty cents for an employee who has
been working for ten or fifteen years with an employer.,He
cannot even pay house rentwiththat. Iam very pleased that
this Bill has been brought forward and will be put into ex-
istence. I support It wholeheartedly.

Mr. SMITH:Mr. Speaker, any one who has the interest
of the worker at heart will completely support an amend-
ment of this nature. The "Objects and Reasons"ofthis
Bill state this:-

"The object of this Bill is to amend the Wages Coun-
cil Act, 1955, to provide for the making and enforcement
of wages regulation proposals and orders relating to the
grant to workers of sick leave with pay."

Sir, I do not think that youwould find an employer who
has people working for him today and who would be so hard
that if any one of them was taken ill, he would not support
him. What an employer would he be to have people working
for him and if any one of them becomes ill he refuses to
pay him his allowance? I do that and I feel that most em-
ployers do it too. Although I am glad to see an amendment
of this nature, I am sorry to know that since 1962 this par-
ticular amendment was hanging fire by the Government, and
only today or a few days ago, the present Government could
see fit to bring it down. The Hon. Minister in charge of
this Bill has said that this amendment should have been
brought before this Chamber long ago or words to that ef-
fect, but that makes me believe that someone is responsible
for holding it up or holding back. I was never a Minister,
but I am thinking that the Government is a collective one
and that the responsibility is shared among the Ministers.
I do not feel that one particular Minister could hold up a
progressive Measure of this nature, and that the others
would just drag their feet and only be watching and peeping
and not doing anything about the matter. If I were a Minis-
ter, I would not have said whattheHon. Minister in charge
of this Bill has said at all. Would be ashamed to allow this
House to know that one Minister was responsible for holding
up a Measure of this nature. We do not know how many peo-
ple might have suffered from that delay. As a matter of
fact, quite a number of people might have suffered from
that.
4.45 p.m.

It appears to me that each Minister thinks he is a
Government unto himself and not part of a collective
Government, because if you did not have a reshuffle,walk-
out or whatever it is, you might still have this Bill hanging
fire, and this House would not know it was in the making.
It is a disgrace to hear remarks or explanations of this
sort. I would have to call thisGovernmenta very weak one.
I think the undertaker should step in and stand by to do
some burying of this Government. Here is an amendment
to provide the workers with sick leave with pay, and a
Minister is telling us this afternoon that this was shelved
from 1962, and it is only now since he has taken up the
portfolio patting himself on the back one way I do not
know what he is doing the other- that this is being brought.
There may be employers who would not give their em-
ployees sick pay, but the Minister must be sure there are
some, and that from 1962 they were trying to bring this
legislation here to protect these poor, defenceless, but in-
stead of doing that now, they are fighting head and heels
to bring a Resolution forthese same workers to go it alone.

Mr. SPEAKER: I must ask the hon. member to stick
to the object of this Bill which istoamendthe Wages Coun-
cil Act. On another occasion of course the hon. member
may deal with any other subject.

Mr. SMITH: Sir, I am going to sticktoit, but I believe
that if you were in my place now you would stray a little.

Mr. SPEAKER: I am sure that if the hon. junior mem-
ber for St. Joseph were in my place, he would hold me up.

Mr. SMITH: That is true, Sir. There is very little more
I have to say otherthan that I am to see what for a Govern-
ment we have to tolerate in this day of grace.







1079


Mr. SPEAKER: I take it that there is no other hon.
member willing to take part in this debate. Let the Hon.
Minister reply.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, thehon. Junior
member for St. Peter who is not now in his place did query
the initiation of sick allowances for these shop attendants.
There is no provision in the Wages Act of 1955 for sick
allowance. The provision in the Actis for holiday with pay,
and that is why we are making this amendment to make
provision for sick leave. We do not say that some employers
do not allow their shop attendants to have sick leave; there
are some who allow it, though they may not allow it to the
extent to which the amendment is seeking to make it.

On the question of low wages raised by the hon. senior
member for St. Peter, I quite agree with him, but what he
said on that score is that if these workers would get or-
ganised, they would be able to demand respectable wages
and proper working conditions. There have been rumours of
shop assistants having to sign for one salary and receive
another, but all these things would be rectified if the shop
attendants were well organised, and I would advise that they
get organised as soon as possible so that they would enjoy
proper conditions of service.

Now to answer the hon. junior member for St. Joseph,
it is strange to hear coming from his mouth the question of
collective responsibility. He goes to sleep in St. Josephand
finds himself awake in St. Michael without having got up
and got into a motor car. When I say that, I am speaking
figuratively. On one occasion he joins other people who
should have a knowledge of what collective responsibility
in Cabinet is and he does not see the necessity for collective
responsibility on that particular issue. On this issue he sees
the necessity for collective responsibility. How in one
breath can he talk about collective responsibility and in
another he cannot even dare to mention collective respon-
sibility, because he would be kicked out of his Party and
would lose the support of the people who are now fighting
against Independence alone?

Mr. SPEAKER: There is nothing alone now.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS I said, Mr. Speaker, that it
is strange that we hear this collective responsibility talk
from the hon. junior member for St. Joseph. He asks how
it is possible for a Minister to delay action on any proposal
which falls in his Ministry. His colleague next to him
would tell him that a Minister can do it. His colleague can
tell him of the delays which were occasioned through his
not taking action in theMinistryforwhich he was responsi-
ble when he was a Minister of Government.
4.55 p.m.

His colleague is an expert at this.

Mr. MILLER: Mr. Speaker, I rise ona point of order.
The Minister seems to be making sport. You have this silly
aside about a Minister's responsibility. I wonder if he
would explain the reason why it is that the entire staff in
his school does not get a cent at all when the school is
on vacation.

Mr. SPEAKER: That is definitely not a point of order.
It does not arise at all.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: I ignore what the hon. mem-
ber has said because I do not run a schoL I was saying
that people of this country, because of the fact that they
do not want to offend Mr. X orMr. Y, they refuse to do the
job which the people of this country are looking forward
to them to do, and people like hon. members on that side
agree with them. I would like to hear hon. members on that
side opposing this bit of legislation. They have been able
to get it delayed and perhaps if there were not certain
changes recently, it would not have been here before the
House today.

Mr. WEEKES Mr. Speaker, I r4se onapoint of order.
I wonder if the Hon. Minister has stated that the former


Minister delayed this piece of legislation. I consider this
a reckless misstatement being made by the Hon. Minister.

Mr. SPEAKER: That has not been stated; so the reck-
less misstatement would not arise.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: I wonder if the hon. Junior
member of St. Philip is sailing on the right boat. I think
he is sailing on the wrong boat.

Mr. WEEKES: On a point of order. I am glad that the
Hon. Minister is sailing on the right boat, but time will
tell.

Mr. SPEAKER: That, I am afraid, is not a point of
order. Will the Hon. Minister continue to deal exclusively
with the reply to the speeches relating to the Wages Coun-
cil Act?

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, it seems as if
when people become hostile to the Democratic Labour Par-
ty that they forget all about the constitutional proprieties
of this country, all about the proper administration of jus-
tice, all about the proper functioning of Government and all
that should take place in Cabinet. People do not know
anything of what takes place in Cabinet unless they are
told by members of the Cabinet. I do not know if the hon.
junior member for St. Philip is the member for Foul
Bay because some people get on just as if they are fowls,
Just jumping all around.

Mr. WEEKES: Mr. Speaker, I rise onapoint of order.
I am asking the Hon. Minister to withdraw those remarks
because if he is talking about fowls, I shall be talking about
dogs.

Mr. SPEAKER: I would ask the hon. Junior member
for St. Philip to rise on a point of order onlyif he is satis-
fied that it is a point of order in conformity with the Stand-
ing Orders of this Chamber. Would remindthehon. Junior
member for St. Philip that when we go into Committee on
the Bill which I hope we will soon there will be no
limit to the number of speeches which he or any hon. mem-
ber may make.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: I am glad YourHonour tried
to teach the hon. member what isa point of order. He does
not understand: else he would not be jumping up every
minute. I do not have to withdraw any remarks because I
had not said anything which was unparliamentary. The hon.
junior member for St. Philip does not know what took
place on this matter, but because he wants to fly off the
handle, he gets up. If he has got fire within him, he better
bring it out on the occasion that warrants it. Let him do
all this talk on Independence.

Mr. SPEAKER: I will ask the Hon. Minister to please
set a good example by dealing with theWages Council Act.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, I am dealing
with the conditions of the workers who benefits by that Bill
which was delayed since 1962. I make i no apology for doing
so. The Cabinet met in 1962 on this matter, and if the
legislation was dealt with in the appropriate Ministry, it
would have been brought here before. I am saying that it
is the duty of any Minister, if he sees that anything has
been delayed, to ask for it. If the Minister concerned saw
that the Bill had not been drafted, that is not the fault of a
Civil Servant; it is thefaultoftheperson who has ultimate
responsibility for it. I am sayingthat that person is respon-
sible for the initiation of the action onthe particular mea-
sure. If I have to criticise other people, I criticise them.
If I have to criticise myself, I would criticise myself.

Now, the hon. Junior member for St. Joseph also spoke
of undertakers, but the undertakers would be coming to bury
all those traitors and all those people who delayed the Wages
Council Act. They are singing their swan song now, but the
undertakers would be coming to bury that type of person
and their associates. Sir, that is all I have to say on the
second reading.








I


1074


The question that the Bill be now read a second time
was put and resolved in the affirmative without division.

On motion of Hon. A. DaC. Edwards, seconded by
Hon. C. E. Talma, Mr. Speaker left the Chair and the
House went into Committee on the Bill, Mr. Batson in the
Chair.

5.05 p.m.

Clause 1 was called and passed.
Clause 2 was called. It reads as follows:-

2. Section 11 of the Wages CouncilAct, 1955 (herein-
after in this Act referred to as the principal Act) is
amended as follows -

(a) by inserting immediately after subsection (20 the
following subsections as subsections (2A) and (2B) -
"(2A) Wages regulation proposals for prescribing
the conditions of employment to be provided by their
employers to all or any of the workers in relation
to whom a wages council operates may contain pro-
visions for requiring a worker to be allowed sick
leave and for fixing the remuneration to be paid in
respect of any period of sick leave.

(2B) Wages regulation proposals for requiring a
worker to be allowed sick leave and for fixing sick
leave remuneration -

(1) shall not be made unless both sick leave
remuneration in respect of sick leave and
remuneration other than sick leave remun-
eration have been or are being fixed under
this Part of this Act.

(ii) Shall provide for the duration of sick leave
be related to the duration of the period
for which the worker has been employed or
engaged to be employed by the employer who
is to allow the sick leave;

(iii) may make provisions as to the times at which
and the circumstances inwhich sick leave
shall be allowed;

(iv) may make provisions as to the times at
which sick leave remuneration shall accrue
and become payable and for securing the
payment of any such remuneration which has
accrued due to a worker;

(v) may provide that an employer by whom sick
leave is granted to worker shall not, during
the period of such leave, dismiss or give
notice of dismissal to the worker;"

(b) by inserting thewords"and sick leave" immediate-
ly after the word "holiday" in subsection (8)

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Chairman, I begto move
that Clause 2 stand part of the Bill.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: I beg to second that.

Mr. MILLER:Mr. Chairman have a few things to say
on this Bill. I think it is rather unkind and unsympathetic for
the Hon. Minister to criticise one of his colleagues. I do not
know that the Hon. Ministerwouldhave seen the files in the
Miristry of Trade since hewasthere. This is really getting
at the hon. senior member for St. Philip. The Hon. Minister
says that since 1962 this matter was lying in the Ministry
and he is now criticising somebody. I really do not believe
that a man with a civilised heart would refuse to give
benefits to sick people who were working for him; on the
other hand, I know that there are some employers who
would not grant their employees leave for any period of
sickness. (ASIDES) I am not thinking of the milk in the
Tobago Cays.


Mr. CHAIRMAN: In what section of this Bill wouldyou
find that?

Mr. MILLER: I am dealing with sick leave. This is
what can happen. The Hon. Minister attempted to accuse
somebodyof telling mycolleaguewhat goes on in the Minis-
try. I can romp with him and I can also exchange some
language with him for a little time. This Bill is allied to
the legislation dealing with Holidays with pay. This is one
of the powerful allies to the Holidays with Pay Bill. I am
not thinking of sick leave now, butitis selfish and boy-like
to criticise the hon. senior member for St. Philip. There
is nothing in this where you would want to do something with
a former Minister who is not here to defend himself. The
Hon. Minister who is in charge of this Bill has served as
Minister of Social Services andnow he has been transferred
to the Ministry of Trade. They had to kick him out or up.
(L daughter .

Mr. CHAIRMAN: What section of the Bill is that?

Mr. MILLER: This is dealing with sick leave. When
the Annual Conference was going on......

Mr. CHAIRMAN: I do not see anything about any Annual
Conference in this Bill.

Mr. MILLER: He was at Lado's in a state of insobriety.
We are now in Committee and I wantto make somefuntoo.
only two weeks ago he failed to attend the Annual Con-
ference ........

Mr. CHAIRMAN: This is nothing to dowiththe Annual
Conference.

Mr. MILLER: If my friend .......

Mr. CHAIRMAN: I am appealing to the hon. member
to stick to this Bill; it is a very important Bill.

Mr. MILLER: Although we have tragedy, there are
occasions when we have comedy. Since we are in Committee,
Mr. Chairman, you will grant me a little latitude. I sat here
like a bear in the cage without saying a word, but unplea-
sant and foul statements were made. I did not think that
that cowardly honourable member would have attacked
somebody who was not here to defend himself. I think there
is time and we should have some fun.

Mr. CHAIRMAN: I do not think that thi s is any fun.

Mr. MILLER: We have had some tragedy and we can
also have some comedy. I am told Sir, that you are going
to displace May's Parliamentary procedure. (Laughter).

Mr. CHAIRMAN: I do not see that in this Bill. I think
that the hon. member is straying from this Bill.
5.15 p.m.

Mr. MILLER: Now, Mr. Chairman, you are in my
period and era, andI understandthatyou are writing a book
on Parliamentary Procedure.

Mr. CHAIRMAN: I am not acquaintedwithyour state-
ment.

Mr. MILLER: It has gone allovertheWest Indies, and
the local Press has stated that you are writing a book to
replace May's Parliamentary Procedure.

Mr. CHAIRMAN: That is not knowledgeable to me. I
would like the hon. member to stick to this Bill.

Mr. MILLER: Since you will not admit it, Sir, and with
your sweet and kind permission, Mr. Chairman, andmyun-
swerving respect to this august Chamber, I seekyour kind
permission to sit and with the right to speak again.

Mr. WEEKES: Mr. Chairman, I must commend the
Government for introducing this piece of legislature on be-
half of the workers. Having heard the Minister say that it
was delayed by someone for a period, Imnust let the Minis-











ter know now that in the officewhich he has left, the South-
ern District Council recommend approximately a yearago
that a man be given a pension and gratuity, and up to the
present time he has not dealt with it.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Chairman, I refuse to
reply to the hon. Junior member for St. George because he
has said nothing. I would like to say to the hon. junior mem-
ber for St. Philip in reply to the question he has raised
about the recommendation made by the Southern District
Council for a pension for a man, that it is on the Order
Paper and the matter is in Select Committee: otherwise he
would not have mentioned the question of my sitting on it.
The Select Committee has to meet to deal with an issue
like this. But it is people likehimand people who associate
with him who go around fooling the people of this country,
and that is why he came here to mislead this Committee
this evening. He is so muchaccustomedto living by fooling
people that he is trying to get overthis Committee with it;
but if they want a fight, I am prepared to fight with them,
not here, elsewhere.

The question that Clause 2 stand part was put and
resolved in the affirmative without division.


Clause 3 was called and passed.


On the motion of Hon. A. DaC. Edwards, seconded by
Hon. C. E. Talma, Mr. Chairman reported the passing of
one Bill in Committee, and Mr. Speaker resumed the
Chair and reported accordingly.
On separate motions of Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS,
seconded in each case by Hon..G. G. FERGUSSON, the
Bill was read a third time and passed.
ADJOURNMENT

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, that concludes Gov-
ernment Business for today. I wish tothankthe hon. senior
member for St. Thomas and hon. members opposite for
having decided to waive their claims to have Private Mem-
bers' Business today. I wish to assure them that if they
wish to do Private Members' Business nextweek, they may
do so.
I beg to move that this House do now adjourn until next
Tuesday, 19th October, at 2.30 p.m.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.
The question was put and resolved in the affirm-
ative without division, and Mr. SPEAKER adjourned the
House accordingly.
5.4 p.m.





Publications Not Available

Supplements to
Barbados Official Gazette
v. 101 no. 60

L.N. 94
L.N. 95
L.N. 96
Acts: 1966-20




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