Supplement: House of Assembly Debates...
 Subsidiary Legislation Supplement...

Group Title: Official gazette, Barbados
Title: The official gazette
Full Citation
Permanent Link: http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00076861/00035
 Material Information
Title: The official gazette
Physical Description: v. : ill. ; 33-42 cm.
Language: English
Creator: Barbados
Publisher: s.n.
Place of Publication: BridgetownBarbados Published by authority
Subject: Law -- Periodicals -- Barbados   ( lcsh )
Politics and government -- Periodicals -- Barbados   ( lcsh )
Genre: periodical   ( marcgt )
General Note: Caption title.
General Note: Supplements issued for some of the numbers.
 Record Information
Bibliographic ID: UF00076861
Volume ID: VID00035
Source Institution: University of Florida
Rights Management: All rights reserved by the source institution and holding location.
Resource Identifier: aleph - 001043625
oclc - 12594829
notis - AFC6434

Table of Contents
        Page 619
        Page 620
        Page 621
        Page 622
        Page 623
        Page 624
    Supplement: House of Assembly Debates for 20th July, 1965
        Page A-966
        Page A-967
        Page A-968
        Page A-969
        Page A-970
        Page A-971
        Page A-972
        Page A-973
        Page A-974
        Page A-975
        Page A-976
        Page A-977
        Page A-978
        Page A-979
        Page A-980
        Page A-981
        Page A-982
        Page A-983
    Subsidiary Legislation Supplement no. 38; L.N. 75
        Supplement No. 38 Page 1
        Supplement No. 38 Page 2
Full Text





Gazette Notices
Acting Appointments: N. D. Osborne as Financial
Secretary................................. 619
C. S. Husbands as Director of Public Prose-
cutions.................................... 619
Duty Leave: E. S. S. Burrowes........................ 619
Leave: Senator J. S. B. Dear, Q.C.................... 619
Industrial Incentives re Kitchen Furniture........... 620
Industrial Incentives re Wheaten flour, etc........... 620
Patents: "Improvements re hinged-lid cartons"..... 619
Patents: "Improvements re Cigar Holders".......... 620
Statements of Caribbean Currency Notes & Coins
for 1st January, 1st April, 1966............ 621-624
House of Assembly Debates for 20th July, 1965.
Legal Supplement
(L.N. 75) The Labour Welfare Fund (Haggatts Factory)
Regulations, 1966.



Acting Appointment

C. S. Husbands, Assistant Attorney Gen-
eral to act as Director of Public Prosecutions
with effect from 15th June, 1966, until further

(M.P. C. 749/1)

Duty Leave

E. S. S. Burrowes, Financial Secretary,
duty leave with effect from 15th June, 1966.

Acting Appointment

N. D. Osborne, Assistant Financial
Secretary, to act as Financial Secretary with
effect from 15th June, 1965.

.1(M. L. 2055 Vol. II)


Grant of Leave to Senator

Senator J. S. B. Dear, Q.C., has been
granted leave of absence from his duties as a
Senator during the period 12th June to 20th
July, 1965.

(M.P. 0028)



Patents Act, 1903-7, Sec. 10

NOTICE is hereby given that BRITISH-
a Company incorporated under the laws of
Great Britain, of Westminster House 7, Mill-
bank, London, S.W.1, England, hath lodged in
this Office an application and complete speci-
ficationfor a Patent under the Patent Act 1903
(1903-7), for an invention for "Improvements
relating to Cigar Holders".

The said Specification has been accepted
and is open to public inspection at this Office.

Registrar (Ag.)
15th June, 1966
Registration Office.

NO. 49





(Section 6)

The Honourable Premier and Minister of
Finance pursuant to section 6 of the Industrial
Incentives Act, 1963, hereby gives notice that
the Cabinet is about to be asked to consider
whether for the purposes of the abovemen-
tioned Act, Wheaten flour and its by-products,
animal feeds, corn meal and corn flour, soy
flour, soy meal, soy oil and other soy products.
should be approved products.

Any person interested in the manufacture
or importation of Wheaten flour and its by-
products, animal feeds, corn meal and corn
flour, soy flour, soy meal, soy oil and other
soy products, who objects to these products
being declared approved products for the pur-
poses of the Industrial Incentives Act, 1963,
should forward to the Director, Economic
PlanningUnit, Office of the Premier, to reach
him on or before 27th June, 1966 a statement
in writing setting forth the grounds of his ob-



(Section 6)


The Honourable Premier and Minister of
Finance pursuant to section 6 of the Industrial
Incentives Act, 1963, hereby gives notice that
the Cabinet is about to be asked to consider
whether for the purposes of the abovemen-
tioned Act, a company to be registered as
Acme Manufacturing Ltd., should be declared

as an approved enterprise in respect of Office
and kitchen furniture from metal at a factory
to be situated at Grazettes Industrial Estate.

Any person interested in the manufacture
or importation of the products in question who
objects to the proposed Company being de-
clared an approved enterprise for the purposes
of the Industrial Incentives Act, 1963, should
forward to the Director, Economic Planning
Unit, Office of the Premier, to reach him not
later than Saturday 25th June, 1966 a state-
ment in writing setting forth the grounds of
his objections.



lPtents Act, 1903-7, Sec. 10

NOTICE is hereby given that MARDON
corporated under the laws of Great Britain
and having its principal place of business at
Temple Street, Bristol 1, England, hath lodged
in this Office an application and complete
specification for a patent under the Patent
Act1903(1903-7), for an invention for "Im-
provements relating to hinged-lid cartons".

The said Specification has been accepted
and is open to public inspection at this Office.

Registrar (Ag.)
15th June, 1966
Registration Office.


June 20. 1966

Statement of Currency Notes and Coins in Circulation in the British Caribbean

Territories (Eastern Group) on 1st January, 1966


Average circulation during November, 1965

British Caribbean Currency ...

Demonetised Government notes

British Caribbean Notes & Coins
in circulation on 1st January, 1966

Trinidad (Minus) ......

Barbados (Minus)......... ...
British Guiana ... ... ... ...
Grenada ... ... ... ...
St. Vincent (Minus) ...... ...
St. Lucia (Minus) ...... ...
Dominica ... ... ... ...
Antigua ... ... ... .

St. Kitts (Minrp) ...... ...
Montserrat ... ...
"Proof Sets" of Coins ...











Demonetised Govt. notes outstanding

Trinidad ... ...
Barbados .........
British Guiana ... ... ... ...

Total demonetised notes outstanding ...
Total in circulation on 1st January, 1966

British Caribbean Currency Board
Treasury Chambers,

Port of Spain,

Trinidad, W.I.





$26,114,915 $6,254,793


Executive Commissioner
British Caribbean Currency Board

June 20, 1966



Statement of Currency Notes and Coins in Circulation in the British Caribbean
Territories (Eastern Group) on 1st February, 1966

Average circulation during December, 1965

British Caribbean Currency



... 29,874,844


Demonetised Government notes

British Caribbean Notes & Coins
in circulation on 1st February, 1966


Trinidad (Minus) ......... 4,027,114
Barbados (Minus)... ... ... ... 6,699,335
British Guiana ...... ... ... 23,335,211
Grenada ... ... ... ... 7,174,100
St. Vincent (Minus.) ......... 630,600
St. Lucia (Minus) ... ... ... 1,045,247
Dominica ... ... ... ... 997,000
Antigua ... ... ... ... 4,130,100
St. Kitts (Minus.) ... ... ... 2,865,000
Montserrat ... ... ... ... 107,900
"Proof Sets" of Coins .....


Demonetised Govt. notes outstanding

Trinidad ... ... ...

Barbados ... ...
British Guiana ...... ...

Total demonetized Govt. Notes
Total in circulation on 1st February, 1966

British Caribbean Currency Board
Treasury Chambers,
Port of Spain,
Trinidad, W.I.


20,477,015 6,259,493

Executive Commissioner
British Caribbean Currency Board





June 20, 1966

Statement of Currency Notes and Coins in Circulation in the British Caribbean

Territories- (Eastern Group) on 1st March, 1966

Average circulation during January, 1966



British Caribbean Currency

Demonetised Government notes

Notes and Coins in circulation on

1st March, 1966
Trinidad (Minus)

Barbados (Minus)..

British Guiana ...

Grenada ...

St. Vincent (Minus).
St. Lucia (MinuA)
Dominica ...

Antigua ...

St. Kitts (Minus)...

Montserrat ...

.. 23,256,431


... ... ... 4,511,114
... ... ... 6,892,335

... ... ... 20,994,211

... ... ... 7,174,100

... ... ... 755,900
... ... ... 1,319,247
... ... ... 723,000
... ... ... 4,130,100

... ... ... 2,865,000

... ... ... 107,900

"Proof Sets" of Coins



Demonetised Govt. notes outstanding

on 1st MArch, 1966 ...
Trinidad ...

Barbados ......
British Guiana ......

Total circulation onist March, 1966 ... $16,785,715 $6,259,718
*Note:- "Minus" means excess of Withdrawals over Issues


British Caribbean Currency Board
Treasury Chambers,

Port of Spain,

Trinidad, W.I.

Executive Commissioner
British Caribbean Currency Board









June 20, 1966


Statement of Currency Notes and Coins in Circulation in the British Caribbean

Territories (Eastern Group) on 1st April, 1966

Average circulation during February, 1966



British Caribbean Currency
Demonetised Government notes

Notes and Coins in circulatia
on ist April, 1966

Trinidad (Minus)

Barbados (Minus.).
British Guiana ...
St. Vincent (Minus).
St. Lucia (Minus)
Antigua ...
St. Kitts (Minus) ...
Montserrat (Minus.)

... 18,769,340


... ... ... 4,751,714
... ... ... 7,116,335
... ... ... 19,569,211
... ... ... 7,174,100
... ... ... 899,900
... ... ... 1,319,247
... ... ... 689,000
... ... ... 3,958,100
... ... ... 3,046,500
... ... ... 73,100

"Proof Sets" of Coins


Demonetised Govt. notes outstanding
on Ist April, 1966 ...
Trinidad ...
Barbados ......

British Guiana ......

Total circulation on 1st April, 1966


*Note:- "Minus" means excess of Withdrawals over Issues.

British Caribbean Currency Board

Treasury Chambers,
Port of Spain,
Trinidad, W.I.

Executive Commissioner
British Caribbean Currency Board

Government Printing Office.








June 20. 1966


House of Assembly Debates




Tuesday, 20th July, 1965

Pursuant : the adjournment, the House of Assembly
met at 2.30 p.m. o'clock today.

flis Honour J. E. T. BRANCKER, Q.C., (Speaker);
Mr. L. E. SMITH, J.P.: Mr. F. E. MILLER; Hon. C. E.
TALMA, (Minister of Communications and Works); Mr.
J. W. CORUIN; Hon. G. C. FERGUSSON, (Minister of
Agriculture and Fisheries); Mr. R. St.C. WEEKES, J.P.;
Mr. W. I. LOWE; Mr. C. V. BATSON, (Chairman of Com-
mittees); Mr. N. W. BOXILL; Mr. J. 13. YEARWOOD and
Hon. A. DaC. EDWAIIDS, (Minister of Health, Housing,
Local Government and Community Development).

Prayers were read.


Mr. SPEAKER: The Minutes of the Meetings of the 15th,
22nd and 29th June, have been printed and circulated, and
unless there is any objection I will declare them confirmed.

There being no objection. I declare the Minutes of
each of those three meetings duly to be confirmed.


Hon. W. A. CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker, I am commanded
to lay the following on behalf of the Hon. Premier and
Minister of Finance:-

The Cvil Establishment (General (Amendment)(No. 4)
Order, 1965.

The Public Officers Loan and Travelling Allowances
(Scheduled Officers) (No. 2) Regulations, 1965.

The Boundaries Commission Order, 1965.
Mr. HUSB N DS, Mr. HOL DER, Mr. MO TTL EY and M r.
GODD ARD entered the Chamber and took their seats.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Speaker, I am commanded to
lay the following:

Statement showing the sums advanced to the Post-
master General for the payment of Money Orders, the
amounts repaid to the Accountant General and the
amounts due by the various Post Offices to 31st March,

Statement showing the sums advanced to the Post-
master General for the payment of Money Orders, the

OF 1961-66

amounts repaid to the Accountant General and the
amounts due by the various Post Offices to 31st May,


Hon. W. A. CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the
Hon. Premier and Minister of Finance, I beg to givenotice
of the following:-

Resolution to approve the Order entitled "The Civil
Establishment (General) (Amendment) (No. 4) Order,

Resolution to sanction the Regulations entitled "The
Warehousing of Rum In Bond (Amendment) Regulations,

A Bill to amend the Public Officers Loan and Travel-
ling Allowances Act, 1948.

Also on behalf of the Hon. Minister of Education, I beg
to give notice of the following:-

Resolution to place the sum of $7,200 at the disposal
of the Government to supplement the Estimates 1965-66
Part I- Current as shown in the Supplementary Esti-
mate 1965-66, No. 12 which forms the Schedule to the

I also beg to give notice that Oral Reply to Parliamen-
tary Question No.52/1964 asked by the hon. junior member
for St. Philip is ready.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Speaker, I beg to give notice
that Oral Reply to Parliamentary Question No. 44 1964 asked
by the hon. senior member for St. George is ready.

Also Oral Reply to Parliamentary Question No. 48/1964
asked by the hon. junior member for St. Joseph is ready.

Also Oral Reply to Parliamentary Question No. 54/1964
asked by the hon. senior member for St. Thomas is ready.


Mr. BATSON: Mr. Speaker, I beg to give notice of the
following question:-

To Enquire of the appropriate Minister.

Is Government aware of the danger the residents of
the Shop Hill area in the parish of St. Thomas are exposed
to, because of the lack of proper gutters constructed along
the road?

Will Government explore the possibility of accommo-
dating the said people by constructing gutters inthe above
mentioned district before the rainy season sets in?



Hon. W. A. CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move
that a Bill to amend the Public Officers Loan and Travelling
Allowances Act, 1948 be now read a first time.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.

The question was put and resolved in the affirmative
without division.


Hon. W. A. CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker, I should like at
this stage to make two Statements. The first is in connec-
tion with the participation by Government in the Canadian
Universal and International Exhibition to be held in 1967.
The Statement reads as follows:


In October, 1963, the Secretary of State notified this
Government by Circular despatch 475/63 of 25th Septem-
ber, 1963 that the Government of Canada had expressed the
wish that a separate invitation should be addressed to this
Government to participate in the Canadian Universal and
International Exhibition to be held in Montreal, Canada
from 28th April, 1967 to 28th October, 1967. The following
are two extracts from the circular:-

"The themeof this international exhibition is "Man
and His World." This gives abundant opportunity to demon-
s:rate the accomplishments of the human mind in all areas
of the world, in all the varied activities of thought, economic
affairs, technology, science, culture and religion to present
an all-embracing view of present achievements, spiritual
and material, together with the further aspiration of a
rapidly changing world.

Montreal, the city selected for the Canadian Universal
and International Exhibition, has in its metropolitan area
a population of more than two million people. Within a
radius of five hundred miles, there live 12,400,000 citizens
of Canada and forty-eight million citizens of the United

"It is understood that the issue of individual invita-
tions to the Governments of the Caribbean is intended as
a mark of their long-standing trade and cultural links with
Canada. Nevertheless constitutional changes in the course
of the next three years may well, in a number of instances,
render individual representation inappropriate. Despite
these uncertainties your Government will doubtless be
gratified to receive a separate invitation and after due
consideration of the question of possible participation and
its final implications, will indicate what reply they would
wish to have conveyed to the Government of Canada."

2. In August, 1964, Mr. Kenneth Marshall, the Overseas
Liaison Officer of the Canadian Corporation which is re-
sponsible for organising the Exhibition in Canada held a
Joint discussion with the Honourable Minister of Trade and
Labour, representatives of the Development and Tourist
Boards, the Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Home Af-
fairs, Commissioner of Police, a representative of the
Chamber of Commerce (Mr. Campbell) and the Permanent
Secretary, Ministry of Trade and Labour on the matter of
participation in the Exhibition.
2.55 pm. .
3. The question of participation in the 1967 World Exhibi-
tion in Canada was discussed at the 2nd and 3rd Conference
of the Caribbean Commonwealth Countries held in Jamaica
in January, 1964 and British Guiana in March of this year
respectively and the decision of the March Conference was
that Jamaica and Trinidad would participate as separate
countries, and Barbados and British Guiana would confer
as to joint participation.

4. The Chairman and the Regional Council of Ministers
have been informed that this Government proposes to par-
ticipate in the Exhibition and that it will make space in its
pavilion available to other territories of the Eastern Carib-
bean if they desire such space. To date, the Government
of Dominica, Montserrat, St. Kitts and St. Lucia have signi-
fied their inability to participate. Replies are awaited from
the Governments of Antigua, Grenada, and St. Vincent.

5. Following the decision reached at the 3rd Caribbean
Commonwealth, the Government of British Guiana has now
indicated its willingness to participate, and details are
being worked out for the joint participation of the two ter-

6. A Committee comprising the Chairman and Managers
of the Tourist and Development Boards and the Permanent
Secretary, Ministry of Trade and Labour, has been ap-
pointed to prepare estimates of cost, the development of
a theme or themes for the pavilion, recommendations for
the appointment of architects and contractors, etc. and to
submit defintie proposals to the Government. Until the
work of this Committee has been competed, it is not pos-
sible to give the Honourable House detailed estimates of
the cost of participation in Expo'67, but on the basis of
preliminary estimates obtained it appears that the cost
of participation will be approximately $300,000 (BWI). It
is expected through participation with the Government of
British Guiana and any other of the Governments of the
Eastern Caribbean which may decide to participate and
to share this cost on a basis to be agreed that the cost to
this Island will be reduced.

7. As soon as more detailed estimates of cost have been
obtained, it is proposed, in due course, to submit a reso-
lution for funds to meet the cost of this Government's

The other Statement deals with the grant of a pro-
spective licence.

Mr. SPEAKER: May I just point out to the Hon. Leader
of the House that if thereare other Statements, the Stand-
ing Orders will have to be suspended as this is Question

Hon. W. A. CRAWFORD: I appreciate Your Honour's
concern. I do not think it will be justified because the second
Statement is not as long as the first. When I am finished I
will make a motion for the suspension of Standing Orders.

Mr. SPEAKER: Let the hon. member proceed with the
second Statement.

Hon. W. A. CRAWFORD: The second Statement is as


In May, 1950, the Gulf Oil Company Limited was
granted a licence to prospect for oil and natural gas in
Barbados. This company explored with little success for
almost nine years and in August, 1960 the licence was
transferred to an individual who never commenced opera-
tions. Accordingly, the licence was cancelledinNovember,
1961. Since then the Government has been negotiating with
various companies and individuals and on 10th July, 1965,
the Cabinet, under the authority of Section 4 of the Petro-
leum Act 1950, granted a prospecting licence to Mr. Ulysses
M. Harrison of Houston, Texas.

The licence which is for a period of two years in the
first instance covers the Island and territorial waters, but
excludes the land areas around existing producing natural
gas wells. The licensee will be required to commence dril-
ling within the next ten months and to drill at least four
wells to a depth of at least 3,000 ft. during the initial period
of the licence. No rent will be charged during the first two
years of the licence, but If it is renewed an annual rental
will be payable at the rate of 15 cents an acre in the third
year, 25 cents an acre in the fourth year and 50 cents an
acre in the fifth and subsequent years.

A deposit of $10,000 has been required to ensure com-
mencement of the drilling programme and an annual per-
formance bond of $26,000 will be posted.

The licensee will be required to comply with the pro-
visions of the Petroleum Act, 1950 and any regulations made
thereunder. He will also be required to take out public li-
ability insurance to cover damage to property and personal
injury and to comply with the provisions of the Workmen's
Compensation Act, 1963.

In the event of petroleum or natural gas being dis-
covered in commercial quantities the licensee will be per-
mitted to take out leases of the petroleum rights for a
period of 21 years, renewable on payment of a rental to
Government of one dollar per acre perannum. This rental
is separate and distinct from the rentalwhich the licensee
would be required to pay the owners of land for surface

Royalties would be payable to Government at the rate
of 12 1/2% of the selling value of any petroleum or natural
gas discovered, such selling value to be determined by
mutual agreement between the Government and the licensee
or, in default of agreement, by arbitration. Under the pro-
visions of section 7 of the Petroleum Act, 1950, 25% of the
royalties received by Government would be paid to owners
of land within the pooling area (100acres)around each pro-
ducing well in the proportion which each person's land bears
to the pooling area.

Profits from the operation would be taxable in accord-
ance with the Petroleum Winning Operations Taxation Act,

Mr. Speaker, that concludes the two Statements.


Hon. W. A. CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker, I now beg to
move the suspension for the remainder of today's sitting of
Standing Orders 5, 14, 16, 18, 40 and 45.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.
i r, < !,/ TO1 rosc to s pc'i ,.
The question was put and resolved in the affirmative
without division.

Hon. W. A. CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker, I do not know if
the Hon. junior member for St. Joseph is suffering from
any thrombosis, but I would just like to tell him that we
are not proposing to ask for any suspension of the right
of hon. members to continue under Private Member's
Business. This is merely to facilitate the Session in more
ways than one.

This is not an attempt to deprive the hon. member of
concluding the brilliant speech which he began last week.

Mr. Speaker, I now beg to move that Question Time be
now taken.

Hc:i. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.

The question was put and resolved in the affirmative
without division.


Mr. SPEAKER: It is now Question Time.
3.05 p.m.


Mr. SPEAKER: Question No. 52/1964 standing in the
name of the hon. Junior member for St. Philip.

Mr. WEEKES: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the appro-
priate Minister: -

Will Government, now that electric current is being
installed at the Government Crushing Plant at Mangrove
St. Philip, consider the possibility of assisting the residents
of Greaves Hill, near Mangrove in the said parish in the
installation of electricity in the said village by extending
its service by approximately three electric poles to reach
the outskirts of the said village?

Hon. W. A. CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker, the Reply to
the hon. member's Question is as follows:-

"The Government has examined the possibility of
extending electric current to this area in which there are
four houses and has held consultations with representatives
of the Barbados Light and Power Company Limited. As a
result it has been agreed that this extension will be included
in the Company's Extension Plans for 1966 since it is not
possible for the Company to undertake this work during this


Mr. SPEAKER: Question No. 44 standing in the name
of the hon. senior member for St. George.

Mr. LOWE: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the Approporate

Will the Minister state how many Government Projects
have involved the award of contracts to International
Construction Ltd?

2. Will the Minister also state the number of cases
in which additional claims have been submitted by the
same company in excess of the contract price and of re-
jected tenders?

3. Will the Minister also state the amount of funds
lent by the Barbados Development Board to this Company
and whether the loan was advanced to this Company in the
same manner as to other industries, or otherwise?

4. Will the Minister state what safeguards, if any,
exist, by which the Development Board can satisfy itself
as to the experience or skill viability and general bona
fides of persons and companies applying forpioneer status
and/or Development loans?

Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Speaker, the Reply to the
hon. Member's Question is as follows:-

"(1) Five contracts have been awarded to Messrs.
International Construction Limited involving
Government projects since the Company started
operations in 1963.

(2) On two occasions, additional payments were
made to the firm for work carried outin addition
to that required under the respective contracts.
On none of these occasions did the contract price
plus additional payment exceed a rejected tender.

(3) No loan was made by the Barbados Development
Board to International Constructions Limited.

(4) The Development Board examines very carefully
the experience, skill and general bona fides of
every person or company applying for pioneer
status or a development loan. This is done by a
careful study of the detailed application form
which must be filled in by every applicant for
pioneer status or a loan. This form requires the
applicant to give all the necessary details about
the skills and techniques required and available
for the proposed enterprise; the present finances
of the applicant and the financing required for the
enterprise; projection of the financial returns
of the operation; sources of raw materials;
marketing 6f products and other relevant infor-

Further, the Board generally interviews
applicants and endeavours to have the information
supplied by them substantiated by other


Mr. SPEAKER: Question No. 48 standing in the name
of the hon. junior member for St. Joseph.

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the appro-
priate Minister:

Is it a fact that Government awards contracts to
building contractors for the erection of buildings, bridges,

2. If the answer is in the affirmative, will the
Minister state how many buildings are under construction
by the said contractors, and how many have been completed
between 1st April, 1962 and 31st March, 1965?

Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Speaker, the Reply to the
hon. member's Question is as follows:-

"1. No, Sir.

2. Does not arise."


Mr. SPEAKER: Question No. 54 standing in the name
of the hon. senior member for St. Thomas.

Mr. BATSON: Mr. Speaker, to enquire of the appro-
priate Minister:-

Is Government aware of the delay caused by the
vehicular traffic in the City of Bridgetown due to the
number of vehicles that traverse the roads?

Will the Minister issue a directive to the appropriate
Department to have lanes marked out on the roads in order
that three vehicles would be able to use the said roads
alongside each other?

Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Speaker, the Reply to the
hon. member's Question is as follows:-

"Yes, Sir.

It is however impracticable to have lanes marked out
on the roads in Bridgetown in order that three vehicles
would be able to travel abreast of each other due to the
narrowness of the streets and the lack of suitable side

Mr. SPEAKER: That concludes the Questions towhich
Replies have been laid.
3.15 p.m.


Mr. SPEAKER: We will now proceed to PrivateMem-
ber's Business. When the last Sitting was adjourned there
was discussion on a Resolution relating to the Financial
Statement and Budgetary Proposals made by the Hon. Pre-
mier on 1st July, 1965. When Private Member's Business
was concluded on that afternoon the hon. junior member
for St. Joseph was yet addressing the Chair. He may now
resume if he sees fit.

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, on the last occasion I was
dealing with the paragraph relative to trade, and I was
trying to point out to the House that this paragraph stated
that we will be travelling very slowly in the absence of
more industries and the export trade and so on. It is a well
known fact thatwe are so small thatwe cannot build up these
industries as fast as we would like for them to make a
satisfactory profit to carry on; so we have to assist and
try to do all that is possible to build up our export trade.

Now, Sir, we all know that trade is the upkeep of any
country. We must do the business and we must do the trade,
and when we can do the trade and the business, we will be
able to feed our population. I am not prepared to dwell on
it too much, because I believe the time will come when we
will have the opportunity on the floor of this House of
dealing with Federation; but in order to encourage people
to build up and establish industries in Barbados, we have
to make sure that we can get nearly all the business from
the other territories as far as our produce is concerned.
The only way we can do it and satisfy the investors is by
coming together in a Federation. When we bind ourselves
together, rather than catering to one island, we can cater
to seven or eight, and then we will be doing something and
thinking in terms of our population, and how we are going
to feed them and relieve the unemployment in our country.
Now, Sir, only a few days ago I have been hearing and
reading a lot about the British Guiana and Barbados trade
pact. As far as I have read and from my knowledge about
trade, it will be a very good thing, although it seems as if
we are committed to it without our knowledge; but if a thing
is right, it is not wrong. Everyone of us is inclined to agree
with it, and there is a possibility of getting others to come
along. Any intelligent person who knows what he is doing,
knows fully well that no country can thrive as it should
without trade. Our Chamber of Commerce is willing and
ready to help this Government and do everything that is
possible in connection with this trade pact. I feel that it is
the duty of all business people to get together now, not in
this trade pact alone, but in organising their business on
the right lines in order to bring about success. Let us all
be willing to do something to see if we can get the other
countries to come together both in a trade pact and by
way of Federation. Do not let us sit back and talk and
criticise in the dark or in the light. Let businessmen and
politicians come out in the forefront, state their grievances
and resolve their differences. Do not let us sit back and
drag our heels waiting on their part, whether it is right
or wrong. The Government can only feed some of its peo-
ple when the businessmen get together and sprain their
brains and invest money and do trade. The Government
can only help when they receive money by way of taxation.
If the business people do not get up and get in order to
save themselves and their capital, what can the Govern-
ment do?
3.25 p.m.
It is not good enough now to be in a trade pact of only
two. I am not even too sure about two.I am speaking for my-
self now because forasmuch as it is British Guiana, I feel
that the Government of British Guiana is solely relying on
the gentleman by the name ofMr. D'Agularandif he should
say "no" in anything or if he wants to pull the Government
of British Guiana down, I feel that he can say so. There-
fore, I cannot be too sure when the whole country has to
depend on one man.
Sir, we all hope that all will go well; but, Sir, if we
can bind ourselves together and encourage the other coun-
tries to come in with us and British Gulan even one or
two of us, as Trinidad did we still have a hope. There-
fore, do not let us go empty handed, now that we are on
the road to success. We can see with this little trade pact
already what it is going to mean. It would seem to me that
even Trinidad is thinking that they are in trouble about it
because as much as she has got and as much as she is
doing, I feel that she is in trouble if we should all come
together and start to work along the right lines. If we can
get her now trying to convince herself that what she has
done is not the right thing, let us do so now.

There are business men in Trinidad and they have to
think about their capital, their business, their losses and
their gains. Well then, if they stand back and allow one
man to decide for them, we, the business men in Barba-
dos, should not try to get into the same boat. We do not
have anything to fear. We have to pay taxes and the Gov-
ernment has to get taxes from the people in order to run
the country. The Government has to get taxes regardless of
what happens; but if there is nothing to be taxed, what would
be the result? If a man does not make money, you cannot
tax him on what he has not: butif he makes money, you can
tax him. So long as the Chamber of Commerce is all out
now to back us, I think that just backing us up along with
British Guiana is not altogether good enough.

The business men and the politicians outside of the
Government should be willing to come together and formu-
late some plan. They should find out some ways and means
of how they can get the other colonies to come together in a
Federation. I think that if the other business people in the
territories do the same thing along the same lines, the
leaders in those countries would not be so simple as to try
to be stiff-necked or in any way try to be too self-confident
and would not want to listen to the people who are respon-
sible for at least 90% of the income of the colony. It is for
our Chamber of Commerce to get in touch with the Cham-
ber of Commerce in the other countries and try and form
something. They can form an association. Even the politi-
cians outside of the Government should get together also.
Let us bring pressure to bear on the Governments. Let
them know that if they have the power, they cannot be al-
ways doing it; they cannot be always right. I am sure that
if the majority get together and bring pressure to bear
on the Governments, this one-man show would not be able
to work any more, and he will have to break for himself
and jump in the line and do the bidding of the people. How-
ever, here it is, our Chamber of Commerce is alone, and
everybody is only waiting and can only criticise, and I
dare suppose, write letters in the newspapers about the
matter. That is not sufficient because here in this docu-
ment the writer tells you that we can get nowhere if we do
not build up our trade. It has gone so far as to say here
that our total trade will ultimately begin to shrink, and we
shall find ourselves unable to support our growing popula-

I will come to that later, Sir, but I am throwing out
a challenge to the people of Barbados through the Chamber
of Commerce to get together with similar institutions in
the other countries and find out their stand as far as Fed-
eration is concerned, and as far as trade agreement and
the trade pact are concerned. Point out all that has to be
done by them and form themselves into an association or
something so as to present to each Government. The poli-
ticians outside the Government should also agree, and I
am sure that the country will begin to move off and
Federation would get off the ground. But just to leave it
to a particular individual or three men in the Government
to think it out for themselves as if they are the bosses, it
will never do. Yes, they are the bosses when it comes to
making laws and doing certain things; but when it comes
to saving the country and the people, well then, let it be
more than only that one or that few who are sitting on the
Government benches.

We will have to do something, even if it is that we will
have to do a little marching. We will have to do something
so as to convince the Government that we want Federation.
Let us have Federation and then Independence. Let us take
it upon ourselves to come together and form a united front
and do not let it be only two or three of the politicians but
also the business people, because the business people have
a big say in this country. They know it. It may be that they
do not care to take on the responsibility or the worries, but
the business people are the people who have to go out and
work. You can term them as such because the business man
has to go out and sometimes he has to say "Yes, Sir" to his
boss. He sometimes has to say: "I am late, do not be to
hard with me. Do not send me home because when you send
me back home I am going home to a hungry wife and chil-
dren." A business man has to do everything to get to his
job on time. That is what is happening with the business
men in the community. They are doing it. They are putting
by something for themselves so that the Government can
get something.
3.35 p.m.

Why should they be afraid of themselves to come out in
the open? You do not have to be a politician to do that. It is
not everybody who wants to be in politics, but everybody
wants to live. Somebody must do the spade work and I am
quite willing to do anything tomorrow. Suppose by joining
up with another Party we will get Federationi I want Federa-
tion. It is not a question of Party or anything like that;
as far as I am concerned, I want Federation. I want the
people to be helped and I will do anything to go forward into

unity. I will throw the blame on the Government for not
coming together as far as Federation is concerned. Sir,
from what I have been hearing, it seems to me that there
is only one particular member 1 will not call his name
now but when the time comes I will call the name who
seems to be standing out. It is not even the Government,
but only one particular man. That should not be so. Five or
six Governments should not be afraid of one man; they
should come out in the open and say what they want. If you
come together with a particular leader and you feel that that
leader is the fly in Lne ointment, say so and it is easy to
get other leaders.

Mr. Speaker, I can remember reading somewhere in
the Bible that a ship was sailing and it began to go down.
When they came to find out what was happening, there was
one man in the ship who was causing the trouble. And what
did they do in order to save the ship, the cargo and every-
thing else? They threw that man overboard. (A MEMBER:
Do you mean Jonah?)

Mr. SPEAKER: Will the hon. junior member for St.
Joseph draw to my attention that partof the Budget Speech
to which he was referring for the last few minutes?

Mr. SMITH: This has no number.

Mr. SPEAKER: Is the hon. member sure that what he
was referring to is In that Budget Speech?

Mr. SMITH: Yes, Sir. I saw it somewhere. The Eco-
nomic Survey has numbers and on page 65 this is what it
says:- "The industrial sector, while expanding slowly, is
not expected to provide a great deal of stimulus to the

I can bring chapter and verse to prove what I am say-
ing. As you will remember, Sir, on the last occasion I said
that I was not criticising anything but that I was more on the
line of giving advice. They are so much accustomed to my
talk that they may think that everything has gone. It is only
this morning that somebody called me at my office on the
telephone and asked to speak to Mr. Smith. I said that Mr.
Smith was speaking. He said: "Do notaskme for my name
because I am not telling you." He said that I belong to the
poor man; he also said that fertilizer, by which he meant
sulphate ammonia, is manufactured in Trinidad and sent to
St. Kitts where it is being sold at $112.00 per ton whereas
in Barbados the same product is being sold at $144.00 per
ton. The Minister of Trade must see about that. This fer-
tilizer is made in Trinidad and little St. Kitts can sell it at
$112.00 per ton; but big Barbados can onlysell it at
$144.00 per ton. I suppose that the handling charges could
be responsible for that big increase in the cost of this fer-
tilizer. However, Sir, it is still a matter of trade with
which we are dealing and I believe that that person knows
what he was saying. I tried to find out the price at which
this fertilizer is being sold in Barbados and I was told that
the price is $144.00 per ton. I could not get on to St. Kitts,
but the Hon. Minister of Trade can see about that.

Mr. Speaker, what I am saying is that in the absence
of our coming together in Federation St. Kitts will be
coming together with us in Federation we will not know
what the true position is. On the other hand, we may put
ourselves in such a position that we may be able to set up
our own plant and then we will not have to buy from Trini-
dad. We are nothing to do with Trinidad because she is
nothing to do with us. Trinidad wanted Independence and we
would want Independence also. We would want Independence
within a free trade area doing business and doing it in the
right way.

Now, Sir, we come down to the bottom of the matter.
We are told here that ultimately we will begin to shrink
and we shall thereby find ourselves in a position of not
being able to support our growing population.
3.45 p.m.

Now, Sir, the population is growing, and whether or not
we federate or expand, this population will always be a

headache, and we have to do something to curb it. It is no
use playing we are all saints; and if we do not try to curb
it, we will all go to hell and not to heaven. You are a busy
man, Mr. Speaker, and cannot take time off, but I have little
to do and I take time off to visit the schools when it is time
for them to be dismissed. If you were in Roebuck Street
and saw the many children coming from one school, you
would notice that the street becomes darkened. In Colly-
more Rock where there are two schools, you get the same
thing happening when the children pass down River Road.
What are we going to do with them? They are not going to
be in school all the time, andwe have to find jobs for them.
I would not like to see them become callous after the
parents have drawn their belts and tried to educate them,
because when you meet a smartyy" who is not educated,
he is very smart; so what do you think of an educated
smartyy"? We have to try and curb this population, and
regardless of what any one says or calls me, the only
remedy for it is birth control. It is facing us daily, and in
my opinion we have to practise it from the schools if we
want to get somewhere and keep the standard of living up.
We do not want to have hungry and naked people around; so
if we have to face this problem, let us not wait until the
afternoon; let us start in the morning.

Mr. Speaker, we must remember that the Government
is not spending its own money; it has to borrow some, and
it cannot go on borrowing 'for ever and ever, Amen'. I
notice, Sir, that the death rate is going down; anyhow, we
will have to do our best to keep the fire burning and con-
trol this population. We can no longer depend on emigration,
because that is uncertain. It is true that it has helped this
country in the money that is sent back here, and if we can
emigrate a few thousands more, it would do us the world of
good; but we have to wait on the people overseas.

The Premier also set out the position with regards
to sugar and how much income tax was collected resulting
in a marked improvement in the finances of the island
during the last financialyear. Now you can clearly see
that sugar has played a very big role in the Island. I will
not dwell on that too much because the hon. juniormember
for Christ Church has dealt with it, and has told the Gov-
ernment that up to now sugar is still reigning king. That
is why I believe they call it King Sugar. The sugar pro-
ducers are doing everything to improve the sugar industry,
and I believe that they can help in forcing Government into
a Federation. We however, have to think of the peasants
whose position is still uncertain. I feel that the time has
come when they should get together in an Association
and try to do something, because most of them are growing
canes at a loss. They should get together in a group and
put their trust in an Association, and with proper leader-
ship they in turn would be able to grow canes at a reason-
able price. Some of the peasants have land in such remote
places that the lorries cannot get in for the canes, and
when they have to head the canes so far, they are prac-
tically doing nothing; but I think an Association would be
ble to put a strong case to Government, who would teach
them how to go in for diversification.

The Premier went on to say that capital expenditure
within the Budget in 1964-65 was $8.1 million, financed as
follows:- Loan Funds, $3.1 million; Surplus Funds, $3.4
million; Colonial Development and Welfare Funds, $1.6
million, nearly all of which was allocated to the completion
of the Queen Elizabeth Hospital. Now that we are on the
subject of the Hospital which is such a magnificent build-
ing, I must say that it hurts me when I have to say any-
thing or when I hear anything said about it, because I
thought the hardest thing was done. I thought that to find
the money and to build the Hospital was the hardest task,
but it does not appear so. It seems to me that what is
lacking up there cannot be bought, because there is such a
thing as harmony, and it appears to me that you have to be
born with that.
3.55 p.m.

All of that we have up there. We have $9 million in
confusion and chaos. That is a very serious thing and I do
not know where to lay the blame at the present moment.

Now, Sir, we have a Government and I have always
understood in fact I have heard it said more than once -
that the only thing which a Government cannot do is to work
miracles. However, it appears to me that we have to work
miracles up there. Look what has been said twice on the
flor of this House by a Government Minister relative to
the Hospitall I am not too happy about it. It does not make
me feel, in truth and in fact, that we have a Government as
far as the Hospital is concerned because hearing the Hon.
Minister, it looks to me that only one person is respon-
sible. I do not know if it is so, but the way in which the
particular Minister puts his case tells me that the person
to whom he referred is more than the Government. The
reason why I say that is because if you have to abolish a
post to get rid of the person, what type of Government is
this? Do you mean to say that you employ a person and
the only way that you can get rid of him is to abolish the
post and when you get rid of him you then would establish
the post again? I do not know what to call that. Is this a
"play-play Government."?

Mr. SPEAKER: I suggest to the hon. member that he
does not go too much today into the running of this Insti-
tution. I suggest that he deal with this question rather
warily. The hon. member should also bear in mind that
there is another Item on the Order Paper which is a Reso-
lution coming after this dealing with the Hospital.

Mr. SMITH: I am not going too far on this question,
Mr. Speaker, I am only saying that for the last 200 years I
have not heard anything like that happening at the Hospital.
It might have been said that a mouse or a rat ran along
the Children's Ward, but nothing like this has happened at
the Hospital; not even to the trainee nurses there.

I am saying this. Whenever a portfolio of a Minister is
taken away, it is for some reason. If it is that the present
Minister cannot get along with certain people or a certain
person at that Institution, his portfolio should be changed.
In the same way that they have changed the portfolio of the
Minister of Development, they should change the portfolio
of the Minister of Health. The portfolio of Development did
not have life and death in it and it was changed. Change
this one to in the interest of the country and in the interest
of the poor and suffering people. Asa matter of fact, since
the Government has failed to do their Job by way of a change
in portfolio for peace and for the good of the citizens of this
country, the Government should resign. They should re-
sign: it is a disgrace. If I were the Minister, Iwouldresign.
I would leave because it is not fair. Thepeople should call
on the present Government to resign as a result of these
disclosures by the Minister. All is not well up there. As a
matter of fact, I am hoping that I would not have to go up
there for any treatment. I will still have to stick to my bush
tea because I am scared to go up there.

Now, Sir, this particular document referred to the good
job which the commercial banks are doing. Sir, you may
not know because you do not have to worry a bank manager,
but I have to; therefore, I know the good job which these
banks are doing. The banks in this country are running the
country. The merchants in this country have to deal with
the banks and that is why I said that the businessmen in this
country should get together and let their voices be heard
on this matter.

I would not like to see it, but if the merchants were to
Just withhold credits from the poor country shopkeepers,
then you would know what is Government. Then you will be
able to test the strength of Government. If the Roebuck
Street Shopkeepers were to withhold credits from the poor
country shopkeepers, you will then see what it is. When it
comes to the country shopkeeper giving credit of $3.00
per week during the hard times to each customer, that
would not fulfill the cost of maintenance of that man's
family. Do you know that these poor country shopkeepers
have to carry this burden until the crop begins the next
year? The shopkeepers have to carry that burden. A cus-
tomer comes in with $3.00 and carries out $6.00 in goods.
In turn when the country shopkeepers go into Roebuck
Street, they carry in to the merchants $300.00 and carry

out about $500.00 in stock. Everybody has his burden -
the poor shopkeepers and the workers too. The shop-
keepers are not going to say "no" until the merchants say
"no", and the merchants are not going to say "no" until
the bank managers say "no". Therefore, you can see their

Bank managers, when merchants go in to them, ask
them to say what they want. We know the hardship of the
people although I would never expect the Minister to know
what I have just said. They have not passed that road at
all, I daresay that most of them may nothave topass
that road. As regards myself, rather than pass it, I have
to stand up in the road; therefore I can tell you all about it.
4.05 p.m.

Therefore do not let us fool ourselves and think that
because a few dollar bills have come in you can tax them
get whatyouwant and the position willalways be like that. It
is not always going to be like that; you have to be looking

Now, Sir, the cost of living has been mentioned here,
andi what are we going to do about that? I would like to know
what the Government is going to do about that? I asked a
Question here for a very long time in relation to the prices,
handling costs and so on, in respect of the old Harbour and
those in respect of the new Harbour and it does not appear
to me as if the Government saw fit to reply. There is a
reason for that. Since I asked that Question it is long
enough for us to do what should be done. The cost of living
is really very high. I cannot remember the year now, but
I can remember that the Hon. Minister of Education brought
a basket in here with a butter tot, a lard bottle and a few
tins. He had the table decorated in trying to convince the
last Government that the cost of living was too high. He
had all sorts of things on the table. As I said. Sir, he
decorated the table with these things and I am wondering
now what he did about the matter. It seems to me that these
things do not concern the Hon. Ministerany longer, and that
is why I said that if I had any say in any Government, I
would make them put a different type of paint on those
buildings in Bay Street. I say that because it seems to me
that no sooner than the politicians get inside those build-
ings; it changes them up. In the Election Campaign they
claimed that they would do everything for the poor people,
and in this particular case which I have mentioned, the
Minister has said nothing about the basket which he brought
in here with those items. Something must have changed him
up, but the cost of living is too high and it is the duty of
the Government to see about that. It is not my duty to see
about it.

I am very glad that the Hon. Premierhas seen fit just
to begin to consider married women with their Income Tax.
I suppose you will get some idiot writing something in the
newspaper, but I can't understand how it is that any mar-
ried woman is just going to leave her little child at home
with a stranger to take care of it and go out to work. That
woman loves her child too much; she will only leave her
child at home and go out to work in order to make two ends
meet, or to try and pay the servant for keeping the child.
Her husband may only be working for enough to pay the
house rent and things of that sort, but if the doctor's bills
should have to be sent in, what happens? Mr. Chairman, I
was at Bathsheba lastweekandlwas speaking to a lady who
told me that she was married for30years and she had never
attended the theatre or anything of that sort. I said: "So
long as you have never attended any these things, you have
saved money". She said: "No; when Eddie brings home
the few cents and gives me, I have more headaches to spend
the money than he has to work for it. I could not afford to
go anywhere like that. Sometimes, 1 cannot pay an entire
bill; I have to stretch the money. I went out to work and
when I returned home one afternoon one of the children
told me how the servant had treated her and it made me
cry. I told Eddie that I was not going back out to work and
that he would have to make out as he could." Therefore,
Sir, when a married woman goes out to work, she does not
do that so as to be able to build up a bank account,

Mr. Chairman, I am nothing to do with what happens
anywhere else in the world. You have made a little dif-

ference in the Income Tax in respect of married women
and, in my opinion, you could have gone a little further and
done a little more. You will find that the Government is
spending money on some things where they could do with-
out spending that money. If the Government could spend
money on something where they could do without spending
it, if they were to stop doing that, they could consider these
married people in a greater way. If am working, then you
should tax me by myself. Let the Government separate the
tax on the husband and that on the wife. The Government
tries to get as much as they possibly can get, but I am
saying that they should tax the husband and the wife by
themselves. In that way, they would not be doing anything
wrong because the husband's money is his and the wife's
money is hers. In that way, nobody would have any grouse.
I suppose that in some cases you will get more taxation
from the wife than the husband because I know of a case
now where a wife is working for more money than the hus-
band. I would not say that there is any robbery; you work
for yours and I work for mine; but I submit that a little
more help should be given to the wives. Whereas you had
to look for a fee of $4.80 per day to remain in the General
Hospital, what you now have to look for is a fee of $15.00
per day, which is a very serious thing.
4.15 p.m.

When it comes to doctors' bills and things like that,
the Minister said that Insurance Companies would pay, but
I am sure that everybody is not insured.

Mr. Speaker, I will not say much about the schools,
because I have said what I had to say already on them; but
I hope the Government will reconsider it, because if the
Government does not fix the fees or does not make it possi-
ble for fees to be changed at these schools subject to the
approval of the Ministry, I do not think we are doing any
good, because we cannot stop a Principal of a School from
increasing his fees. After you have paid $25 for each child,
you cannot prevent him from increasing his fees by $5.00,
because there is no where else for the child to go. One
Principal of an Approved School said that this amount is
sufficient and that a lot can be done with it. I do not know
if he said that for the sake of catching a vote. It is no sense
paying out this money and leaving it at that, because the
parents may still stand to lose. It is noted that from Sep-
tember you are going to institute compulsory education,
and children will be compelled to go into school. I can
remember that the Minister of Health said that he went into
some facts with the Mayor of Bridgetown and found that
some of the parents are not in a position to give the chil-
dren clothes and bus fares to keep them in school, and that
there are children whose parents have to stop them attend-
ing school in the middle of their education because they
have no funds to keep them there. I sincerely hope that
something will be done to help those parents about whom
the Hon. Minister spoke, and I trust that they will not be
compelled to send their children to school without being
able to provide clothes and bus fares. Sending these chil-
dren to school will mean lunch, bus fares and clothes, and
the parents will need help. There are very few parents, in
my opinion, whom you have to compel to send their children
to school, even though they do not pay the Principal all the
money. Subsidising a school and compelling parents to send
their children to school are not enough because a hungry
child cannot learn. The Government will therefore have to
look for all this money and they will be doing a very good
job if they can keep up with the Jones'. More money is
being collected from taxes to replace the money that is
being spent, but you have to remember that there are other
things to be done.

The Premier ha s said that "after further consideration
of the administration cost and revenue aspects of the Bill
relating to the levying of a 2% tax on the sale of airline
tickets for flights originating in the island, I propose to
substitute a specific airport service charge of $2.00 on all
outgoing passengers other than intransit and specially
exempted persons. This charge is expected to yield approxi-
mately $150,000 per annum and is in keepingwith the prac-
tice at at least fifty-seven International Airports in coun-
tries far wealthier than our own."

The Premier has seen, Sir, that this 2% charge will
bring in $150,000, and the amount allocated to the Approved

Schols for two terms is $145,000; so Government will
have to look for a lot more money when they bring com-
pulsory education into being. You are compelling people to
send their children to school when they are not able to feed
them, and a lot of children will go mad. I have had a com-
plaint come before me from a Headmaster that a child
made a mistake and took up another child's lunch. I do not
believe that mistake was meant to be an accident; I believe
the child was hungry. We have to feed them if we are going
to compel them to go to school.

With respect to the deduction of taxes on certain goods
to business people, I sincerely hope that the Government
will see to it that we get the quality we should have, be-
cause when you tamper with these things, there is a possi-
bility that the public will not get the quality. It is stated
here that there should be no objection tofaircompetition; it
protects the consumer, and without it we are likely to
breed inefficient industries. Now, Sir, fair competition is all
right, but one man may have money to run his business;
yet he wants to compete with the man who has money, and
he is liable to give 14 ounces when he should give a pound.
The Government must not encourage these things; otherwise
people will still be paying through their noses for the
articles. It is all right to write these nice things; but as
soon as you interfere with these business people, an ar-
ticle may cost you more than it normally should. I am
only throwing that out to the people concerned. It is also
said that it is proposed to increase the duties on wooden
and upholstered furniture and fixtures from 20% Preferen-
tial 30% General to 25% Preferential and 35% General.
4.25 p.m.

Now, Sir, I hope that the Government would do all that
lie in their power to help the small people the very
small ones. There are some small business people who
need some help, and if the Government is only fixing its
eyes on some people who have the necessary securities
and things of that sort, you will still have the small busi-
ness people who have their small industry and who wish
help. A small industry is an industry too. They are all
spelt in the same way. They do not spell big industry and
little industry. I hope that everything is done at the De-
velopment Board to help these small business people. I
know of some who are still complaining.

As I said in my opening remarks, most people were
looking to see what was going to fly out of the Black Box,
but there is nothing more to fly out of the Black Box be-
cause everything was done during the last two years. I
could not see after the Hon. Premier taxed these things
and had raised some money and had got a surplus, what
he would come back to tax. If that were so, he would not be
really the man whom I thought him to be. You could not
tax what you had already taxed. The people are already
groaning under the heavy taxation. Therefore, it is okay to
have this kind of Budget Proposals this year. That is the
reason why the Hon. Premier has left very little for one
to say on these Budgetary Proposals.

However, I sincerely hope that some of what I have
said here would not fall on the ground and that the Govern-
ment will see to it when they are going to bringabout com-
pulsory education to make sure that they will not be
punishing the parents of children by compelling them to
send their children to school without helping them with
clothes and lunch and even bus fares.

Mr. CORBIN: Mr. Speaker, speaking on the Budgetary
Proposals of the Hon. Premier, it is clear that every en-
couragement must be given to them.

I see that the time has expired: so I will have to stop.

Mr. SPEAKER: What do I understand as regards the
hon. senior member for St. Andrew? Is he by indication
discontinuing his speech?

Hon. W. A. CRAWFORD: The hon. member can con-
tinue. I propose to extend the time.

Mr. SPEAKER: Well, the hon. member has sat down.
I suggest that the hon. member move that further con-
sideration of the Resolution be postponed.

Mr. CORBIN: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move that further
consideration of this Resolution be postponed.

Mr. MILLER: I beg to second that.
The question that further consideration of the Resolu-
tion be postponed was put and resolved in the affirmative
without division.

Hon. W. A. CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move
that Government Business be no%\ taken.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.

The question iuas put and resolved in the affirmative
without division.


Mr. SPEAKER: The first item of Government Business
stands in the name of the Hon. Leader of the House and it
is to move the House into Committee of Supply to consider
the grant of sums of money for the service of the Island.

Hon. W. A. CRAWFORD: I beg to move that Your
Honour do now leave the Chair and the House go into
Committee of Supply.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: 1 beg to second that.

The question was put and resolved in the affirmative
without division.

1r. Speaker left the Chair and the House went into
Committee of Supply, Mr. Batson in the Chair.


Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Chairman, I beg to move
that the Resolution for the sum of $843 be now taken.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.

The question was put and resolved in the affirmative
without division.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Chairman, the third
course in Public Health Nursing will be held in Barbados
from 30th August to 22nd October, this year. This is the
last of the courses of this kind to take place and Barbados
has been asked to send two representatives to this course.
As all of the Public Health Nurses at the Health Centres
have already attended such a course, it was decided that
nurses in the public sector employed by other organizations
subsidized by Government, such as the Barbados Nurses
Association and the Child Care Committee, should be
represented at this Seminar. In accordance, there has been
a selection of two nurses from the Barbados Nurses Asso-
ciation and one from the Child Care Committee to attend
these courses.

You will remember, Mr. Chairman, that Government
provides a sum of $5,960 per annum and $7,090 per an-
num for the B.N.A. and the Barbados Council of Women
respectively in the Estimates, and most of this money is
used in the payment of nurses of these two Associations.
4.35 p.m.

There is no provision for the payment of substitutes
who will do the work of these two Nurses when they are
attending the course. Therefore, both of these Associations
have made representations to the Ministry for a further

grant for the purpose of employing substitutes when these
three Nurses are attending this Seminar. I therefore beg
to move that this Resolution do now pass.
Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: I beg to second that.
The question that this Resolution do now pass was
put and resolved in the affirmative without division.



Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Chairman, the next Resolu-
tion is a Resolution to place the sum of $370,455 at the dis-
posal of the Government to supplement the Estimates 1965-
66 Part I Current as shown in the Supplementary Esti-
mate 1965-66, No. 11, which forms the Schedule to the
This sum of moeny is in connection with the prepara-
tion of a new Register of Electors. Hon. members of this
House will remember that from time to time, in season
and out of season, this Government has announced its
intention of introducing a new, permanent Register of
Electors rather than have the periodic Register of Electors
under which we vote now by the provisions of the Repre-
sentation of the People Act. The purpose of this Resolution
is to provide the necessary machinery and to establish an
organization for carrying out a house-to-house survey
in this island by the device of using enumerators. There
will be the preparation of the Register, which is a pre-
paration of registration cards and identification cards which
will also involve the photographing of all the electors in
this island. Mr. Chairman, I would like to give a little
more detail about this matter because it is a new system
and hon. members may not fully appreciate the reason
why this Government has introduced this system at this
There are several good and sufficient reasons for
introducing this system at this time. I had hoped that the
system would have been introduced by the end of Decem-
ber last year; I had hoped also that we would at least have
had the approval of the House, so that the revision which
is now taking place from May to Augustwould have been un-
necessary. The surprising thing is that in this Chamberwe
have 24 persons who are elected to sit in the General As-
sembly of this island and apart from the Governmet Benches
who have to receive instructions on these matters of State
from time to time, I doubt very much whether more than
60% of the members of this Assembly really understand the
system under which they have been elected to this Chamber.
I know that members understand that a Register exist at
election time; I also know that they appreciate that some
time within the period of 21 days after the issue of the
writs, people go to the polls and exercise their right to vote.
The period between the issue of the Writs and the return
of the number of votes is also appreciated by people because
they have to be very careful about what they think about
other people. Apart from that, Sir, I am saying from my
personal experience that I very much doubt that more than
60% of the members of this House understand the machinery
for the preparation of the Register of Electors.
Before this Government came into power, every male
and female over the age of 21 years and who was a British
subject and had attained that age by 31st December in the
year next preceding the preparation of the Register, which
is on the 30th June in each and every year those people
had the right to have their names included on the Register
of voters. But there is a difference between the registering
year, the year in which the Supervisor of Elections and his
assistants send out Enumerators to carry out a house-to-
house canvass in their several districts and try to find out
all the people who are entitled to the vote that is to say,
people who are over the age of 21 and who are British sub-
jects and who were resident in the district at the time of
the enumeration. They employ about 40, 50 or 60 Enumera-
tors who are under the Registering Officers who happen
to be the Treasurers and Sub-Treasurers of the different
Local Government Councils and those Enumerators go
out once every five years in the normal course of events
and take down the names of all the people who are qualified

to vote. They do that by visiting the houses and the places
of business of the inhabitants of this island. After that, the
Register is prepared and typed laboriously by several
typists in the different Local Government Councils under
the Supervisor of Elections. A provisional list is then posted
up usually on the doors of the Churches and Magistrates'
Courts, and if anyone is excluded from the List or if he
believes that a fictitious name has been included in the
List against his inclusion or the inclusion of somebody else,
then he takes the necessary action. People take these things
for granted and very much is left in the hands of the Enu-
merators and the Registering Officers, which Registering
Officers are usually, as I have already said, the Treasurers
and Sub-Treasurers of the different Councils, and it is up
to them to do the spade work and prepare a proper List.
People do not volunteer to go and have their names included
on the Register. We have had a member of a political Party,
who has political aspirations, going up to one of the Regis-
tering Officers of the Sourthern District Council with a long
impressive list of names. The gentleman, I believe, was
exposed to a certain amount of legal training and he in-
formed the Registering Officer that he wanted those names
included on the List.
4.45 p.m.

Here is a person who is I would not like to say who
is supposed to be learned in the law, but certainly trained
in the law, a man who has a great political aspiration, and
he hopes one day to occupy a very high position at least
his family has that ambition for him in the community
politically, and he goes up to the Registering Officer and
presents him with a list of people he wants included. By
that same yard stick, Mr. Chairman, you or I could sit down
at home and have our family write out a very impressive
list of names and say this is a list of names to be included.
The duty is cast on each and every person in the island
who is qualified to vote to see that he puts his own house in
order, and have his name included on the Register of voters;
but once in every five years, according to the Representa-
tion of the People Act, you are relieved momentarily of
this responsibility, because the voters list, as it were, is
brought to you, and when the Enumerator comes to your
house and asks whether you are over twenty-one, youhave
to produce evidence.

The Representation of the People Act also goes on to
provide that after that main Register is compiled, in each
and every year the list is revised, and some time after the
31st December up to this year that has been the practice
the Registering Officers who are the Treasurers of the
respective Councils complete the list of voters. We have a
Supervisor of Elections at the top who is also Local Gov-
ernment Commissioner, and there are three Treasurers
to the three District Councils who are Registering Officers.
Do not confuse this with the Returning Officer who is the
man that presides over the actual polling of the votes. We
need not confuse the uninitiated around this Table I
would not say you because I know you are well versed in
these matters but the Registering Officers use their
Sub-Treasurers as well in the different constituencies or
districts, and these Sub-Treasurers supervise the work of
the Enumerators once in every five years. The last time
we had a register was in 1961, and in each and every year
up to this year, that register was revised on the basis that
all those persons who were still living in the Island and
were 21 years of age by 31st December, in the preceding
year had a right to have their names included on the Reg-
ister which was compiled at the 30th June, in the following
year, and that Register then would subsist until the next
ensuing year; so that in truth and in fact you had an 18
month period during which a person may have attained the
age of 21 years of age and still was not entitled to vote.
Unless you were 21 years of age by 31st December, let us
say, in 1963, you did not have the right to be included on
the Register for 1964. That 1964 Register would normally
last until 30th June, 1965; so you see there was a large
army of disenfranchised persons over the age of twenty-
one. Perhaps this would resolve some of the difficulties
which hon. members experienced before they came here.
You had an eighteen months period during which you were


not entitled to be put on the Register if you were born
on 8th January, 1964. (Interruption from noise outside.)

I hope that Your Honour will do something about that
kind of thing. It is certainly not good enough that when the
House is in Session the Police willallow people to proceed
around the precincts of this building. I take it to be one of
the Opposition Parties advertising their liquidation meet-
ing. They want to make sure that their members heard
about it.

Anyhow, Mr. Chairman, I was explaining that under
the existing system of registration -- and this is very im-
portant allthose persons who came of age immediately
after the qualifying date, which was usually 31st December,
would find themselves disenfranchised for a period of
eighteen months. This is very important to understand
because although the Register was not prepared until 30th
June, you could not, during the twenty days grace that you
have after the 30th June to make sure that your name was
included on the Register, qualify to vote, although you
were now twenty-one years and six months old, because
the qualifying date was 31st December in the preceding
year. I think I have made that sufficiently clear.

It must be remembered that we send around Enumera-
tors once in every five years, because in the following
years after the main registration year, you have to go and
ask the Registering Officer to putyourname on the list and
furnish evidence that you are qualified to have your name
included. That is what is taking place right now. You will
remember, Mr. Chairman, that a few weeks ago we came
here and had the qualifying date amended by an Order, or
we approved of the Order to make the qualifying date 31st
May, and we had the date for the preparation of the Register
extended in accordance with the provisions of the Repre-
sentation of the People Act allowing us to do so until 31st
August, 1965. All that is means is that on and after 31st
August, we should have a more up-to-date Register than we
have ever had before, in that people who were eighteen years
on 31st May would have a right to have their names included
on the Register. If we therefore, for instance, had an elec-
tion of 1st October, we should under normal circumstances
have all the people who were eighteen years of age before
31st May registered to vote. But what we find in all these
countries, not in Barbados alone, is that people do not be-
stir themselves to go and have their names included on the
Register, and despite the fact that we should not have not
only four generations of twenty-one year olds to be included
but several generations of eighteen years olds included, we
actually have less people registered now than we had in
1961. I had the figures somewhere, but I think I left them
on my desk this morning.
4.55 p.m.

I will give you an approximate idea. Speaking subject
to correction, whereas in 1961, we had 110,000 people
on the Register; in 1965 we had only 104,000 people on the
Register. This is because people have gone away, people
have died and their names deleted from the register. But
there are people who are entitled to vote, but who are still
waiting for their political agent to come and select their
names, like the gentleman to whom I referred a few minutes
ago. This is the present system under which we are opera-

What the House is asked today to do is this. In the first
place, we want a permanent register. There would not be a
register compiled every five years; there would be a con-
tinuous revision from day to day. There would be a per-
manent register and that would be kept up-to-date. It would
be kept in a different way. Again, I must apologise for not
having the statistics. The sum of $306,000 may appear to be
a lot of money which we are planning to spend on this item,
but we are spending $30,000 to $40,000 per year going
through this useless exercise and in an election year we
are spending a lot more than $40,000. In an election year,
you have to pay your Enumerators so that in five years, you
spend $200,000 or $250,000 on a register which is vir-
tually useless as far as I am concerned.

Under the present system a lot of money is wasted.
What we want to establish is a permanent register with
facts, and that register would be prepared in an entirely
different manner. We have in our midst international ex-
perts who have done a similar job in Trinidad and Tobago
and they have now completed the preparation of a new
register in Jamaica. I have seen this work in progress my-
self as well as the Chief Supervisor of Elections. We have
both seen this in operation and it is quite impressive.

We are going a step further than Jamaica although
we do not need to send around representatives of the
political parties to ensure that the Enumerators do their
job properly. We do not think that we would need this in
Barbados. In Jamaica, they sent around a gentleman
every day in order to ensure that everybody belonging to
the political party was registered. I hope we will not
have to institute a system like this. If a political party
wish to send around somebody voluntarily so as to see that
everybody whom they wish to register is seen by the
enumerator, and they are going to pay that person, all we
would say is that we would welcome such invigilation but
we cannot ensure that somebody will have access to peo-
ple's homes. We are going to have it in such a way that the
Enumerators would be able to go to people's homes but we
cannot allow unauthorised agents to invade the privacy of
the people. We do not intend to pay anybody to walk around
with the Enumerators.

In this Resolution, we have anamount of money alloca-
ted for the Field staff, the Indoor staff, the Operation of
cameras, travelling around and rent of machines.

I should like to explain this in greater detail because 1
consider this as a matter of great importance. We have in-
ternational computers and international business machines
and the people who manufacture these highly automotive
systems for punch cards I.T.M. and I.C.M. are the
largest manufacturers of this type of equipment. The Sta-
tistical Officer uses the I.D.M. system for drawing up lists.
Then we have verifiers which check the punch cards and
we have typewriters which are operated by clerical

This new system of registration would call for the
utilisation of all three types of machines, the punch cards,
the tabulators and the verifiers; the last two are the elec-
tronic machines and the first is manual. In the Statistical
Department we have people doing the card punching, one or
two tabulators and a verifier. We have these machines,
but these machines are already working to capacity and,
therefore, it would be necessary for this purpose to rent
machines from International Computers and I.T.M.; but the
same punch cards that are in useat the Statistical Depart-
ment can be used with the I.C.M.machineand the verifier.

During the preparation of the Register, wewould have
new machines brought in which would be returned or
should I say most of them. We probably would keep the
key punchers. They would be returned and the Government
Statistician would use his machine for keeping the statistics
up to date. However, the present work-load on the Sta-
tistical Department is such that it is not possible for us to
accommodate all this work there.

Now as regards the register itself, all persons in the
island male and female over the age of fifteen would
be included on the register whether they belong to the
Closed Brethren or Open Arms. As faras I am concerned,
they have to be registered because they are citizens of this
country. They do not have to go and vote. We do not want
any door slammed in the face of the Enumerators. But as
far as voting is concerned, there is still freedom of choice.
It will not be like other countries where if you do not go and
vote you will have to provide a lawful excuse. We feel that
the turn out of people in Barbados is sufficiently impressive
that we do not have to have compulsory voting. But we must
have strict registration, and everyone who isabove the age
of fifteen has to be registered. In the first instance, there
would probably be 150 thousand people who would be dealt
with including the 18 year olds, right up.

Now, Sir, why are we doing this? Why are we insisting
that people from the age of 15 years be included? It is be-
cause this is a once-for-all exercise. We are not paying
these expensive wages looking for negroes in hay stacks or
limers in Mile and Quarter, St. Peter.
5.05 p.m.

That is the first thing one has to remember. There-
fore once we have the photographic equipment and the
skilled persons, we have to make use of them. We say that
persons should be fifteen years and over because persons
will be entitled to the benefits of social security from the
age of 16 years. That is a reasonable working age because
the compulsory school age is up to 14 years. We have a
big generation between the school-leaving age, and thus
every one who is over the age of 15 will be registered and
at the age of 18 they will vote. The Voting Register will
include the 18-year-olds. When persons move from 15 years
to 18 years they will register automatically and we would
not have to go around looking for them. One provision
which we are making here is that in about ten weeks' time
hon. members will be supplied with a provisional list so
that they will see whatitis like. This will not be printed; it
will be done with a tabulator just as how we do the Customs
statistics; there will be separate leaves which come out of
the machine. When you use the punch cards you fit them
into the tabulator and the electronic computer takes them
up from there and types the name on the electoral roll
straight from the holes made in the punch cards. These
are transmitted to the gadgets which they have in the
tabulator. We have one or two people who are working in
the Government Service and who are excellent on this job.
They can not only remedy any defects in the computers,
but they can actually maintain a very high standard of work.
This fits in very nicely with thefacilitieswhich we have in
this island.

Why should we want to prepare a new register now in-
stead of waiting until next year? The simple reason for
that is that we want to introduce a social security scheme
as soon as possible and we want to have an up-to-date Re-
gister as soon as possible so that the two exercises can go
along in parallel, that is to say, with the revision of the
Register which is now taking place and the preparation of
the new system of registration which we are asking the
House to support. In any event, the new Register would have
had to be prepared by the 30th June, 1966. I want to make
that perfectly clear, and we have already said c.r several
occasions that we want to have a new system of registra-
tion. We are therefore making sure that long before June
1966 we will have this new Register ready since it will take
some time. The Register will be ready if the House does not
filibuster on this motion and the Resolution has the easy
passage which it deserves. In that case, we will have the
Register prepared in less than eight or nine months. We
have now a re-allocation of boundaries and we have re-
duced the voting age from 21 years to 18 years. That will
be two reasons. The third reason is that a new register
would be prepared by 30th June next year in any event by
the existing law. If were going toconduct the next General
Election under a system of single member constituencies, it
is essential that we have a new Register prepared. Ido not
like to leave hon. members with any false impression; there
will be an Election anywhere between the 31st August, 1965
and the 4th December, 1966 and we reserve the right to call
for the Election at any time we so desire because that is
our prerogative in law. The constitution of this country
has not been changed.

It is true, Sir, that at two Annual Conferences of
branches of the Party of which I have the honour to be
Chairman, a Resolution was passed suggesting that it may
be a very good idea to demonstrate to mankind or the rest
of mankind (laughter) that this Government has accom-
plished more in three years than any other Government
has done in the island's history. It is also true that at the
last Annual Conference, in the same way that the Lord
gives and the Lord takes away, we removed that restriction
on the Government before three years had elapsed and we
left it entirely to the personwho is Chairman of the Cabinet.
So that if anybody wants to criticise anybody else, he will

have to criticise me. That is a domestic matter in our
Party. The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away (Members:
Truel Truel) As far as the law is concerned, no persons
are more relieved than some of the members on the other
side, that they did not have to pull their pockets and face
an Election last December. It is not that they have ob-
jected to the extension or to the prolonged lease of life
which the Government has given them; the point is that
they are a bit jittery and that they are on tenterhooks.

Mr. Chairman,.I thought I would clear the air on this
business because it was never the concerted opinion of
the Shadow Cabinet at the time. This was a Resolution
which was deplored by the same people who had implored
it. They said: "We are satisfied that you have made your
point. You are free and unfettered to go ahead."
5.15 p.m.

We did promise the people in this country Single Mem-
ber Constituency, we did promise a scheme of Social Secu-
rity, and we promised to reduce the voting age to eighteen;
and as one hon. member has said, do not kill the duck until
you can pick it. Once we have this discretion, we will exer-
cise it in the best interest of the country. The lastGovern-
ment did things in the interest of the individual, but in our
case we do things in the interest of the country.
To return to my original thesis, I should not like any
hon. member at the same time to feel that after 31st Aug-
ust we cannot call an election under double member con-
stituency. I want it to be clear that that could also be done.
After 31st August we can go to the polls on the Register
which will be the lawful Register at that time. The ex-
Speaker will understand that; he ought to hold classes for
the people in his Party- but I am not saying it shall be so.
I do not want there to be any misapprehension, becausewe
do not run Government by conspiracy. There are certain
things that under the constitution the generalities are not
allowed to know, but there are other things they are enti-
tled to know, and the state of the law is something which
everybody should know. I am saying that despite this
Resolution for $370,000, this does not preclude the possi-
bility of an election before Ist October. I am not saying it
predicates it; I am saying it does not preclude it; so once
hon. members understand that, we can proceed with the
substance of the Resolution.

As I said, Sir, there will be a provisional and a per-
manent Register, and this is how the thing will be imple-
mented. Enumerators will go around and every person
who is to be registered will sign a registration card and
an identity card. At the time of registration he will be
given a registration receipt. This has never happened be-
fore. Before I came to this country lawyers never used to
give receipts either; but now we are actually giving a re-
ceipt to show that the Enumerator has been around to you.
The Enumerator has to give you a registration receipt, and
a photograph permission form with certain instructions
directing the elector to have his photograph taken by an
official photographer. So around comes the Enumerator,
he gives you two things to sign: the registration card and
an identity card. That identity card does not have your
photograph on it yet, but your registration receipt will
have the same number on it correspondingwithyour iden-
tity card. We may have certain districts with vans going
around with the photograph equipment. I said "may" be-
cause we are investigating that to see if we can do away
with the vans; but in the same way we have a bookmobile,
we may have a photomobile doing photographs, and when
this van comes around with the camera in the districts
in vacation time or whenever it is, you have to present
your registration receipt to have your photograph taken.
You have a receipt and that receipt is your first passport
to a proper registration. Both the registration receipt and
the photograph permission form will be given to the photo-
grapher who makes the elector sign the photograph per-
mission form before taking the photograph of that person.
The registration of an elector is not complete until the
photograph is taken, unless for some special reason that
person has been exempted from having his photograph
taken; but he still has his identity card. Itis not like swear-
ing off a vaccination either. The Chief Registering Officer

has to see that the photograph is affixed to the identity card
and registration card. If an elector has misplaced or dis-
figured his identification card, he can make application to
have a new photograph taken. Each electorwillbe assigned
an individual number which he willretain while he is quali-
fied to be an elector, and he will also have a registration
card signed by himself. He will of course be given his
identification card which we will enclose in plastic for
longevity, and this card will have both his signature and
his photograph on it. This is what he will have to present
when he goes to vote. In that way we will avoid a lot of the
personation which went on in certain constituencies in the
past, particularly during the Federal elections.

We are also making provision for the maintenance of an
up-to-date Register what I referred to as a permanent
Register and wewill be making provisionfor notification
necessary for maintaining a permanent Register notifi-
cations of removals, departures, new registrations, attain-
ment of qualifying age, deaths and so on.

I will now come to the Register of non-electors, the
fifteen year olds. All the persons over the age of fifteen
who have not attained the age of eighteen will be on the
non-electoral roll. They will also go through the same pro-
cesses of having their photographs taken, and I think
their identification cards in these cases will be of a
different colour or have some distinguishing feature about
5.25 p.m.

The Supervisor of Elections, as I mentioned earlier,
paid a visit to Jamaica, Trinidad and Tobago and we also
had the privilege of going around with a Mr. Wilson who
is the general manager of these operations. It is he who
would be given the system of computing the system of sta-
tistics, and so on, for the preparation of the Register. The
Supervisor of Elections was given assistance all around,
and he met the Supervisor of Elections in Trinidad and a
Mr. Royce who is an Electoral Officer of the Jamaica
Department. Both of these countries used the same or-
ganisation, and their registers are of comparative recent
vintage. The Trinidad register is of 1960-61, and the
Jamaica register is now being prepared.

We also had talks with the Ministry of Trade and
Labour on the question of rationalisation for the identifi-
cation of social security with that of Voters Registration,
and I think we have arrived at a working agreement in this

Sir, since this is the last item of Government Business,
I am sure that hon. members will bear with me a few
minutes longer so that I can tell them of the legislation
which we propose to amend so that they would have no
doubts whatsoever about the system which we propose
to implement. We are going to amend the Representation
of the People Act, 1959, Chapter 50, 1953; the Represen-
tation of the People Act, 1959, Chapter 40; the Represen-
tation of the People Act, 1963, Chapter 41; the Local
Government Act of 1958, Chapter 55, sections 34 and 35.
Perhaps, the Local Government Councils can have a look
at this; We are also going to amend Chapter 4 of the
Representation of the People Act 1955.

We also propose that the duties of the Returning Of-
ficers and the Registering Officers should be combined in
one person. The Enumerators shall also be appointed on the
same basis. We do not intend to have scrutineers as I have
said before, but we propose to issue a preliminary list of
the electors. Now, that may appear to be quite a normal
thing, but it is not because often political parties desire
to have a list of voters. I do not see how any one of the
members for the constituency of St. Michael would be able
to obtain a list of the voters because it would cost quite a
large amount of money to have a list of 34,000 voters sup-
plied to you; the charge is about ten or twelve cents per
voter. What we propose to do is that each recognized po-
litical party which is capable of identification will be
issued free of cost with a preliminary list so that their
people and prospective candidates and officials of the

Party can scrutinize the list as such, rather than send-
ing around scrutineers and going and checking the work
of the Enumerators before the final list is tabulated.

Each polling district should control approximately
1,000 persons and that will be sub-divided for adminis-
trative purposes into units of approximately 250 qualified
voters; sometimes it may be a little more, sometimes a
little less. We are going to make provision in the law
so that the loss of your identification card would not de-
prive you of the right to vote. At the same time, I would
not like to encourage people to leave their identification
cards at home and go and vote. Inevitably, you will find
the few lost souls losing their identification card; therefore,
we are going to make sure that they do not lose their right
to vote. However, we have to encourage people to be very
careful with their identification cards because we do not
want unauthorised persons to use them.

Election Clerks would also be provided and, of course,
we would have regulations for the further carrying out of
the elections, identification cards and other matters.

As regards the cost of implementing this new system
of which the total cost is $370,455, the cost of the contract
is $259,000 or $148,000 (U.S.). The fees of the Enumerators
are $42,000. For the operation of cameras, the fee charged
is $15,000 and other charges amount to $18,860.

I do not think that the recurrent cost has been men-
tioned. Clerical assistance is estimated at $4,320, upkeep
of machines, electricity, $1,300 and the rent of machines

I understand that the total charges is Trinidad and
Tobago were over $2 million. We brought the contractors
down from $154,000 (U.S.) to $148,000 (U.S.).

The details which I am giving now are details of the
recurrent expenditure which are included in the overall
5.35 p.m.

These are the figures: indoor staff, $19,754; Returning
Officers, $11,520; Clerical Assistance, $4,320; Upkeep of
Machinery, Electricity, Water and Maintenance of furni-
ture, $1,300 and Rental of Machines, $6,000. We cannot
buy these machines because they are patented and they do
not sell them. Furthermore, it will not pay us to buy them
because we can get up-to-date machinery. In the Estimates
under the Head, Statistical Service, you will see that there
is a considerable amount of money placed there every year
for the rental of statistical computers. The only thing, I
think, we would need would be the key punches which are
relatively expensive. You can put 20 or 30 girls to work
these key punches, but they cannot work the electronic
computers. I think the work would take about three and a
half years if we are going to employ people to do it. The
travelling expenses will be $7,560 which would make a
total recurrent expenditure of $50,454 and a grand total of
$370,455. This might sound like a lot of money, but it is not
a lot of money if we can accomplish what we hope to ac-
complish by it, that is to say, the removal of fraud, the
provision of a permanent register, the printing of iden-
tification cards and the creation of a certain amount of
employment for the people who would be permanently em-
ployed in this system of registration.

I do not know what the bill for Jamaica is, but I can
assure you that it must be a great deal in excess of the
$2 million which the Government in Trinidad had to fork
out or to fork in, to use a colloquial expression; but I think
we are doing remarkably well if we can have this system
introduced with the minimum of headaches for this com-
paratively small sum of money. Mr. Chairman, it is a
complete revolution in the registration of electors and a
complete change for social security in this island. I beg to
move that this Resolution do now pass.

Hon. W. A. CRAWFORD: I beg to second that.

Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Chairman, I have listened with
rapt attention to the presentation by the Honourable and
Learned Premier of this Resolution. I must.say, Sir, that
the calm way in which he presented it has served to dis-
arm me in many respects. However, Sir, there are still
one or two things which I would like to know. I believe that
countries must keep up-to-date and in accordance with what
they can afford. The question of the recurrent expenditure
was what I was most interested in. Judging from the amounts
which we paid every year for these things which, by law,
the Local Government Councils must prepare whether there
is an Election or not, judging from the amounts which
were paid out in an Election year, while this is an amount
of $50,000 involved, it would be rather inflnitesimalhaving
regard to the system which we are introducing. I sincerely
hope that I am among this 60% of members mentioned by
the Hon. Premier who understand the system by which we
were elected to membership of this Chamber. If I am not
among that 60%, I think I have had sufficient experience
and knowledge of the system and I have been able to un-
derstand the Representation of the People Act, the Ballot
Act and other Acts relating to the way in which I took my
seat in here. I believe, Sir, thatthereare other hon. mem-
bers who are in similar positions.

I listened very carefully to the figures which were
given by the Hon. Premier in respect of the breakdown
of this Resolution. I know that these machines will not be
sold. I was rather interested in the manner in which this
work is being done today. I do not think I should take second
place to the Hon. and Learned Premier as to understand-
ing how the present system is operated. I was very in-
terested in this new system. I had notes here which I had
prepared as to the Statutes which will be amended and
those which will be enforced.

I heard the hon. member mention what happened in
Australia and I heard him mention the provision made for
the licensing of your car. This system is similar to the
social security system or the system obtaining in relation
to the driving licence in the United States of America.
In the United States of America you can travel with your
citizenship papers or your passport. As to this system of
the registration of electors, when I first scanned it, it did
appear to me to be a rather expensive system; it appeared
to be a little too extravagant for us. I am concerned now
particularly with the question of the recurrent expenditure.
5.45 p.m.

There are persons here from either of the other Coun-
cils who know that by law the ratepayers carry the burden of
an election, and this would be a relief in the expenditure of
elections. This is a responsibility which will now be taken
away from the Local Government Councils and undertaken
by the Central Government. Although I did not look at the
amendments to which the hon. member referred, these are
amendments which will now be made, I believe. As far as
the registration of voters is concerned, I think there was
one point on which I did not agree with/the Premier, and it
was where he mentioned the number electors. He did not
have the statistics, but I believe there was some slip up
when he said that the number of 110,000 has been reduced
to 104,000. I am not going to press that, because the hon.
member admitted he did not have the figures.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: On a point of order, when I said
104,000, that is the number that was on the Register at
30th June, 1964. You will appreciate, Mr. Chairman, that
the 1965 Register is now in the course of preparation; so I
would not have figures for that Register. I may have said
1964, but I meant the Register inforcein 1965, not the one
which will come into operation in 1965. There has been a
drop of 6,000 voters on the Registerbetween 1961 and 1964.

Mr. MOTTLEY: That is not of much interest, but the
hon. member will realise that the Officers who must take
charge of this every year still do a sort of revision, and
this revision represents the number of people who died,
those who left the island and so on. If you take the number
of people who left the island between 1961 and now, you will
find the reasons for the reduction of electors, and I do be-

lieve there are a lot more persons who will be registered.
I do not like the idea of taking Jamaica or Trinidad and
Tobago as comparisons. With the high standard of literacy
in this country, we have never had any trouble, so to speak,
of getting people registered. What I have found is that
Political Parties actually do not exercise enough influence
by going around and seeing that people are registered as is
done in the United Kingdom and other metropolitan coun-

We feel, Sir, that the most important piece of legis-
lation which will be enacted and come into force as a result
of this is the question of social security. I do not know if the
Hon. Premier made a slip, but in dealing with the question
of social security, he said that these cards will be used for
the purpose of registration, and that the fifteen year olds
will have a different colour card from the eighteen year
old and upwards. I can see the reason for this difference
and it will save a tremendous lot of work; but he also said
that one of the reasons is that people will be entitled to
social security from the age of sixteen. I think that should
be made clear, because I do not think the public quite
understands it. This is not a registration for national in-
surance. I am sure the hon. member appreciates that, but
he did say that; and it will create a great misunderstanding
among people that they would be entitled to social security
at the age of sixteen.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: On a point of order, Mr. Chair-
man, if the hon. member would give way, I was Just checking
because I know he is a very busy man, almost as busy as I
am; but the Social Security Report was laid about two
weeks ago and the hon. member should have a copy by now.
In it he will see that one of the recommendations is that
the age should be fifteen at which youare entitled to social
security. It is not the law yet, but it certainly is not more
than sixteen; so the two things will coincide in two re-

Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Chairman, the hon. member is
speaking on a plane which might be above me, though I
am net saying it is above the general public. I think I can
understand what is said in the Report. The hon. member
said that people are entitled to social security at sixteen
years of age, but what I think he means is that they are en-
titled to begin to contribute to the scheme of social security,
which is a different thing from being entitled to social
security at sixteen. People who leave here and go to
England to work are entitled to national insurance when
they are out of work. If you make a statement that people
will be entitled to social security at sixteen, I think it is
going to be frightfully confusing to people. The school
leaving age is fifteen years, and the father of an illegiti-
mate child ceases to support it at sixteen; so I can see the
reasons why you have suggested sixteen.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: On a point of order, I think the
hon. member really should understand that "by entitled"
means you are entitled to the benefits of social security at
the age of sixteen by contributing, and after you have joined
the scheme at sixteen, and have contributed for a quali-
fying period of twelve or fourteen weeks and suffer per-
manent disability, you are entitled to the normal benefits
for the rest of your life; so I should not have to spell out
all these things to a sociological expert like the hon. senior
member for Bridgetown.

Mr. MOTTLEY: If the hon. member chooses to make
what he says a sarcasm, it does not matter; but I cannot
be a sociological expert. The hon. member has made it
abundantly clear that social security starts at the age of
sixteen; so with the Government. the employer and the em-
ployee contributing, a person is entitled to social security
if he becomes permanently disabled. What the hon. member
said would make people believe that a person on reaching
the age of sixteen is entitled to social security.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Is the hon. member seriously
suggesting that the public is so dense as he thinks to be-
lieve that you can retire from work at sixteen for the
rest of your life and the Government is going to pay social

security for the rest of your natural life? I do not think
the hon. member is doing justice to his constituents by
suggesting that they would draw that sort of inference.

Mr. MOTTLEY: The hon. member has tried to make it
clear, because he said that youwill be entitled to the bene-
fits of social security by contributing from the age of six-
teen. It is not a matter of suggesting that I was under-
estimating my constituents or the constituents in any area
of this Island; it is a matter of common parlance.
5.55 p.m.

People would think that you are entitled to social
security at the age of 16. Now, you have made it abundantly
cl6ar. I am only trying to get out of the Hon. Premier what
I want the public to understand. I have already suggested
that the bigger the man is, the more humble he should be.
As far as I am concerned, that is the point which I wanted
to clear up, and I am happy that the Hon. Premier has
cleared it up and has said that you are entitled to social
security when you contribute to social security at the age
of 16. I do not think that the Hon. Premier thought that I
did not understand. I understood it, but I thought I would
ask the Hon. Premier to explain it.

I want to ask the Hon Premier if he has any statis-
tics so far as the registration of those persons for the pur-
pose of voting is concerned. I wonder if he can say what
are the figures of those of 15 years. If the Hon. Premier
can give us an idea of the number of persons which his
Statistical Department or his Economic Planning Depart-
ment envisage would benefit from the contributory scheme
of social security, I would be glad. I am asking that ques-
tion for the simple reason that I want to satisfy myself
that in your spending this money you are spending it in
the dual capacity. Not only is it for the Registration of
voters, but also for the purpose of social security. I
well remember that the last Premier in the last Govern-
ment wanted to put into operation a Beveridge Scheme, but
for years and years that was as far as he got. I always
thought that it was a very important matter. I would just
like to know if the Hon. Premier can tell us the number of
persons from 15 years who would benefit from a contri-
butory scheme of social security when it is put into opera-

On the other hand, the Hon. Premier said when he
was explaining something as regards the taking of photo-
graphs except in special cases, but he actually did not tell
us what he considered to be the special cases. What I under-
stand is that it would be compulsory registration and not
compulsory voting. The Hon. Premier said that whether
they be Closed Brethren or open arms there would be com-
pulsory registration. It is for the Government to have all
the statistics in order to know the economy of the island.
However, I am glad that there is no compulsion for voting.
That is a matter for the individual. On the other hand, I
have seen so many fools who say that they do not want to
vote, but when anything goes wrong with them, they go to
the politician and tell him that something has gone wrong
with them and ask him to suggest what they should do. The
same politician whom they refused to vote for is the first
person to whom they go when anything goes wrong with
them. I would like to know this special reason for not
taking a photograph. As far as I can see, it may be that the
person was hospitalized for a long timeorthat he was dis-
figured. I do not know what Government has in mind under
the circumstances; therefore, I would like to know.

There is another thing over which I have had some ex-
perience. I have said that I do appreciate the fact that the
Government under this registration system will be supply-
ing free of charge to prospective candidates and recognized
parties a preliminary list of voters. The Hon. Premier dis-
tinctly said parties which are not defunct.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: On a point of explanation, I did
not say candidates; I said recognized parties; therefore,
candidates will have to copy from the lists.

Mr. MOTTLEY: I am sorry. We are very pleased about
that because it can be very expensive. Wonder if the Hon.
Premier thinks that candidates of recognized parties should
not have postage free for circulars which they send out.
The Hon. Premier and myself have raised this question in
here on several occasions. Although the question of supply-
ing the list of registered voters may be expensive, I am
saying that it can be very expensive when one has to spend
this tremendous amount of money in stamps to send out
circulars to voters. I hope the Hon. Premier would give his
consideration to that because it is today for me and tomor-
row for you. It does not matter to which Party you belong.

I also want to know what provision can be made under
this system as regards people moving from place to place
so often. We have a vast majority, three quarters or more
of chattel houses, and the people move about often.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: This will not be the fashion any-
more. Do you remember what we passed two weeks ago?

Mr. MOTTLEY: The Hon. Premier said that the houses
would not be moving any more. The houses may not move,
but the people will move. You have 4,000 odd chattel houses
which are not of stone. I am quite serious about this. This
is a very important matter. If you take the area of the Mun-
icipality where you have this tremendous lot of chattel
houses, within weeks of registration you might have 500 or
600 people moving in one month.
6.05 p.m.

Mr. Chairman, let us be serious about this matter.
Look at the Premier; did you not have to remove from one
place to another? You own a house and you register the
father, the mother and the 18, 20 and 23 year-olds. Let us
forget the 15 year-olds. During a period of five years one
girl gets married and another goes out and so on. The Hon.
Premier made the point that if the List is to be kept up-to-
date, that involves an amount of $50,000 which will be spent.
I want to know what provision is made for persons who
remove from place to place. Let us say, for instance, that
a person has been registered in Black Rock and then he
goes to the Northern part of St. Michael to live What
provision is being made for people who remove from the
area? I am suggesting that some provision should be made
in relation to people who are removing from one place to
another. The main thing I should like to know about is the
question of the recurrent expenditure. With the figures which
the Hon. Premier has given us, we consider that the re-
current expenditure is not anything frightening. When you
take into consideration the value which you will get in re-
lation to the modern, up-to-date methods, the recurrent
expenditure is nothing of which you should be afraid.

I have gathered from experience that these machines
will not be sold, but you have to rent them. The hon. mem-
ber referred to something which I cannot say I knew much
about. In relation to the Federal Elections, I stuck to the
Municipality, Christ Church and St. Philip. The hon. mem-
ber referred to the fact that it was brought to his notice
that there was some attempt at personation. I do not want
to compare this Island with Jamaica or Trinidad. When
you take up a list of the whole island, you will find that
there is a large percentage of people who spoil their votes.
As to those who cannot read and vote, you will be able to
tell them: "The first from top" or "top and bottom", even
those people who could not see without the aid of their
glasses knew the top and the bottom well enough so as to
be able to place their mark. However, Sir, the Hon. Pre-
mier has given us the figures. The real benefit of the exer-
cise in this Resolution is the question of social security.
That cannot be denied; you cannot have a scheme of social
security unless you have proper registration, indentifica-
tion cards and the like. Those who know about the social
security system in the United States of America will
appreciate what I am saying. In my way of putting it, this
is not merely an Election matter and I may say, Sir, that
whether the Election is tomorrow or in December I could
not care less; and whether it is in January or not I am not
concerned. I have been telling people that and they fail to
believe me. The Election can be held on the last Registra-

tion List which has been prepared and it can be held at
any time. The law says that an election is for a period of
five years, but you can have a snap election in two or three
years. I say that you can call an Election with the present
voters list as it stands, but to me it makes no difference.
We would like the Hon. Premier to give us the figures
approximately. There are to be the different areas, one for
each registration, one for the fifteen-year-olds and one for
social security. The Department will have these statistics;
other than that, we do not consider this recurrent expendi-
ture anything considerable considering what each Council
and the Government have to spend in connection with the
Registering Officers and the Presiding Officers. What I
have asked is what we, on this side, would like to know.

Mr. HUSBANDS and Mr. MILLER rose to speak.

Mr. CHAIRMAN: The hon. juniormemberfor St. Peter
caught my eye first.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Chairman, if the hon. junior
member for St. Peter would give way, I would like to save
another hon. member from asking the same questionwhich
has been asked by the hon. senior member for the City. In
the Appendix to the proposed Social Security Scheme, hon.
members will find some figures there which will give them
some information. In the census taken for 1960, the num-
ber of persons in the total labour force were approximately
90,000. The total adult working population was something
like 141,000. The number of persons who were working
for the first time amounted to approximately 3,500, and
the number of new people taking up jobs for the first time
and the number of people who were looking for work before
the census was taken was approximately 6,400.
6.15 p.m.

The number of people looking for work for the first
time within the twelve month period before the census was
6,400. Since I did not go around myself, I can only go by
what we have from the official census carried out in 1960.
There were 6,400 people looking for jobs for the first time,
not 6,400 unemployed people; and out of those, 3,500 got
Jobs for the first time; so that the residual figure of 2,900,
who did not get jobs in the twelve months preceding the
census does not mean that the number of unemployed would
coincide with that figure of 2,900, because you have to
think of other people who were looking for work in pre-
vious years and did not succeed. The hon. member may
make deductions from these figures, butthepopulationwent
down in 1961. There has been the migration of 572 to the
United Kingdom. We have had 2,800 St. Lucians coming in
in 1964 and 2,100 departing; so that leaves 700 St. Lucians
still residing in Barbados, and last year 924 Guianese
who either came to jobs or had money. It surprises me to
hear one of the members of the St. Lucia Government saying
that hoards of unemployed Barbadians flock to St. Lucia,
because the migration is in the other direction. I do not
want to say anymore about that; I will deal with it in the
fullness of time. From that you can get an approximate
idea of what the working population is. Of the 100,000 people
and over who wanted jobs, 6,400 people would be between
the ages of fifteen to nineteen who would be looking for jobs
for the first time; so if you multiply that figure by four
from 1961, you would get about 26,000 young people between
the ages of fifteen and nineteen. In other words, the num-
ber of people of sixteen years and upwards but under nine-
teen years of age would probably be 24,000.

Mr. HUSBANDS: Like the hon. senior member for
Bridgetown, I am in quite a different mood now from the
one I entered the Chamber with today relative to this Reso-
lution. When I first saw this Resolution for the sum of
$370,000 and I read the note relative to the new electoral
registration, I was wondering if this amount of money was
necessary, because as far as identification of electors is
concerned, I do not think that for the number of misde-
meanours that have gone on at voting time in the past, we
would be justified in spending this amount of $370,000: but
the Premier has put all the emphasis on the obtaining of
statistics for the implementation of the Social Security
Scheme. That is an entirely new venture, and when I begin

to look at the spending of this money towards such a pro-
vision, I am taking an entirely different view. Again. I had
some doubts relative to why we want to include 15 year olds,
but the Premier in the course of his remarks has made
sufficient explanation on that. Since they are going to be
registered at sixteen, it is a good thing, because if they are
sixteen they have to be considered as far as the Social
Security Scheme is concerned, and none of us can have any
quarrel with that. This provision for a permanent Register
seems to me an entirely new departure, and if it only dealt
with a General Election or even the election of one during
the Five Year term or any other elections to cause the
Government to resign, I do not think this money ought to be
voted just for that; but we are at the beginning of something
entirely new.

What is still worrying me however is this: if the Gov-
ernment has in mind the implementation of this Resolution
and they intended to bring it down this month, it would not
have been necessary to extend the date for people to be
registered under the old system as was done recently. The
Premier must have known before today that he was bringing
down this Resolution for the provision of something bigger
than we have had before- the establishment of a permanent
Register and yet the term for being registered has
recently been extended, the closing date being 31st July.
All sides of the House are in agreement with the principle
of it, but I think there need not have been extension. This
might have been dealt with before today; so I wonder why
we had to extend the term.

I do not know the time of an election, whether it will
be tomorrow or next week, but asking the Legislature to
agree to the extension of the time duringwhich members of
the population may register, and come in with this today, is
practically a waste of time. I think we could have handled
this earlier in the year and the Government would be better
off. As soon as members knew from the lips of the Premier
that this was for the implementation of a Social Security
Scheme, I think the Opposition was watered away, because
I am one of those members who had in mind that the com-
pulsory registration had an aim and was not done for the
fun of it. I wondered what could be the aim of compelling
people to register.
6.25 p.m.

I make no secret of it. I was haunted by the thought
that we had compulsory voting. The Hon. Premierhad said
that we have no compulsory voting; it is only that we are
compelled to register. Therefore, as it is now, it is only
a question of details and I think that they have been well
explained. I thank the Hon. Premier and I have no quarrel.
It is only a question as regards the time. Only a few weeks
ago, you extended the time for the revision of the last Regis-
ter which means we could have done better than that. You
could have done without doing that because this is something
which you had in mind then.

This is something which we never had before. This is
to be a permanent register a register which would be
kept up-to-date unlike what you had before. The register
which you have now had to be brought up-to-date every five
years. Every five years, you have to be sort of paying
Enumerators to go around from house to house in order
to find out who was eligible to vote and who should be re-
tained on the electoral register. I would not mind if the Hon.
Premier would explain to me why this overlapping has
been thought to be necessary and we had to extend the time.
I do not think we needed to have done it when the Govern-
ment intended to bring in this entirely new register with all
the consequential amendments to the Act relative to the
holding of elections. The Hon. Premier has enumerated all
of them and we have checked them and we will be asked in
the future to make these necessary amendments.

The Addendum to this Resolution is notas explanatory
as it may have been. I am sure that if it had said more
about this making provision for a security scheme,our fears
would have been at an end; but we did guess that it was in-
tended to be compulsory voting. It is not; it is just com-

pulsory registration and there is no obligation to vote.
If it were compulsory voting, I wouldwarn the Government
that out of sheer objection some people may behave so
foolishly at the polls if they were compelled to vote, that
you would have wished that you did not make it so. As it is,
we appreciate the move of what is necessary for the im-
plementation of the social security scheme and the creation
of a permanent register for voting.

They are all the comments which I care to make at
this stage. I do not know if the Hon. Premier would reply
to my question as regards the unnecessary extension
of the time for the last register. Why should it be so when
the Government knew that this Resolution was coming down

Mr. MILLER: Mr. Chairman, I have sat and listened
to the speeches made by the last two hon. members and,
as I see it, it is difficult for the Government to get sup-
port from this bloc of the Opposition. It is really the first
time in the history of Parliament that I have sat and listened
to the Hon. Premier with such a subject matter in hand and
wanting support for the Resolution take so much pains to
make such disclosu-s3 i. m ade, aparc from the? coup!
of poignant disclosures which he made in respect of his
Party and the election status. The Hon. Premier failed
miserably to satisfy this Party of his spending a quarter-
million dollars on this overseas organisation in order to
implement this.

In the Addendum there is written the breakdown of tile
cost for the purpose of identification. Mr. Chairman, I
think that you will agree with me.that the registration for
elections is entirely different. You can see that there is
reason why this was put in the Addendum. This is an at-
tempt to win support for this. People actually would have
to apply for information for election purposes. Whatwould
this identity card reveal? We want to know his age, Where
he is working and where he is living. We know the reason
for this; this is another attempt to win support for some-
thing which would call for examination.

Let us see what happened within the last 17 years.
Within the last 17 years only people of a certain category
were able to vote. Let us take the parish of St. George.
There were over 1,100 who voted. Adult Suffrage came into
being and it was then that you had a change because you had
all of the adults over 21 who were registered. It was dif-
ferent from three years before 1948, 1949 and 1950 -
where it was only people who had property that were able
to vote.

Now, Sir, as time passed on, you have been spending
something like $30,000 or $40,000 per year to keep your
lists in order. No matter what organisation you may have,
you must have an up-to-date and permanent register.

Dealing with figures given by the Hon. Premier, he
said that there wq' 110,000 people registered in 1961 and
in 1965 there wvas a drop to 104,000, a fall of 6,000.
6.35 p.m.

That is understandable. If you want to examine the
additional number of persons in 1964, that must include a
part of the age group under 21. You will forgive me, Sir,
if I express my emotions and feelings in this matter. We
are being asked to vote this $370,455 for this registration
today, and this is really for the purpose of delaying the
registration for a period of six to eight months. We are
being asked to vote money to pay for these things; you
have the field staff, indoor staff, operation of cameras,
other charges such as travelling, electricity and rent of
machines. You are using these machines for this regis-
tration when the same registration could be done in less
than 2 1/2 months. Mr. Chairman, we must face these
facts and indeed these are stubborn things. We are spending
about $40,000 or $50,000 in order to get this registration
up-to-date. From the rural and urban areas, there is a
movement of the masses, and perhaps that has been cur-
tailed since the inception of the housing schemes and the
development of the various areas; but again the people who
have removed to these areas have to be registered in the

new areas. The number of persons which we are adding to
this list could not amount to 25,000 souls and you have an
organization operating from day to day on this matter.

Mr. Chairman, can you think of the number of School
Teachers and Sanitary Inspectors who must visit every
house at least once a month? If the Sanitary Inspector
goes to a house next month and there is a babe born there,
he will add it to the list, and if there is one who has died,
he will record that too. You have to be observing what is
taking place. There is movement from one area to another
area. We are expecting to have a complete registration,
and Mr. Chairman, I may say that we, of this Party, could
not be more anxious than we are if the proposal here
means the holding of an election. As a matter of fact, we
will make a contribution if that would relieve this country
from the state of turmoil. If you want to stretch your
imagination so as to include the 15-year-olds, do you know
what it will mean to these homes from which this list would
be taken?

I suggest. Sir, that instead of sending this money over-
seas, it could be spent here; and stating what it is likely
to cost in Trinidad and Jamaica is saying exactly nothing.
I am sure that less than 20% of this money would be spent
in employing the Sanitary Inspectors and the School
Teachers who would do as good a job as will be done with
this machinery. These are the things which you want to
understand. To justify an expenditure of $ 1/4 million
overseas for this registration which is done every year,
Heaven knows what you are doing. Because this was done
in Trinidad we are doing it here; but we see a great dif-
ference between this colony and Trinidad where you have
Chinese and other races.

Tests have been made which have revealed that our
illiteracy standard is less than 3%and this standard is
much higher in England. What have we done in the Elections
over the years which would justify this expenditure? What
troubles did we have which would justify this expenditure?
What on earth is the need for all of this? Are we having this
just because it was done in Trinidad? What happens in
Trinidad is unknown in this country. I say that we can save
this expenditure of a quarter of a million dollars. All
the work that is to be done in this registration of elec-
tors has been set out in the Addendum to this Resolution,
and there are cost which you could get away from. What
is this overseas organization goint to do? You are
spending this $370,000 for the purpose of adding another
20,000 voters on the list. You have field staff, $57,840;
indoor staff, $19,755; operation of cameras, $15,000; and
other charges, including travelling, electricity and rent of
machines, $18,860. You have this money going to an over-
seas organization in order to put a small number of elec-
tors on the list. We have an organization in this island
composed of Sanitary Inspectors and School Teachers who
have done a good job in this island. You can have all this
set-up. What is proposed here has happened in the United
States of America and in Trinidad. You want to have a
permanent register; that is what we want to have; but I am
saying that no organization which is setting up any office
can find out whence people have removed and where they
have gone.
6.45 p.m.

Do not tell me that you will ask the population of
this island to come and report to you; so you will have to
keep the List up to date whether annually or every five
years prior to elections. My contention, dissatisfaction
and annoyance tells me that this $1/4 million is unnecessary,
and could provide a good deal of employment for a number
of persons who have done it before. Teachers in every dis-
trict and Sanitary Inspectors must go to every house at
least once a month, but you are using this little sales gim-
mick of identification cards for registration and social
security. This is flying a kite before Easter. We know that
identification cards will be suitable for persons going over-
seas, but not for social security purposes. In the name of
all that is decent, we want to be factual; we are constantly
in search of the truth. The people applying for social secu-
rity are going to be over 60 years old, and they are going
to press on your Departments. The information you will


require is how long he has been working with A, B or C
and what he got fora salary, his standard of living and what
is his condition and what not. It is not a question, like Old
Age Pension, of reaching the age of 60 or 65 years. You
have to qualify for it, and all this says is that you have to
be over this age, because the people who will spend $1
million and more are entitled to Old Age Pension.Hereyou
have come with a similar thing and called it Social Security
when the information required to justify a claim could not
be put on a card or on file during the time of registration
for election.

Although we are anxious for registration, this does
not indicate that we will have an election in the immediate
future, in spite of the fact that his organization says that
it can go on for five years. In 1960 we had a World Census
Team down here and a gigantic job was done of this. How
much will have to be done five years later? We know that
people have migrated and moved out of the island and back,
and even now we are not sure we will not have an election
under the old electoral list two and a half months from
now. My fear at this moment is whether or not Government
will be requested to make a proclamation on single member
constituencies in the next year or so, because you can al-
ways say that the List is not ready or that the American
organization takes six or eight months. It does not matter
whether or not he makes the proclamation immediately,
but we were told that in August he could call an election
under the old system. I take it, Sir, that you will agree
with me that it is nota questionof criticism; this is simply
an examination of what is required under the circumstances.
In 1960 you had a census on the record of employment and
unemployment, and all you have to do to this list is to add
18 to 21 year olds who will be coming on and rearrange it,
because you will remove them from here to there. Tell me
what overseas organization you will bring here and send
to Boscobelle to register people? They could notfind their
way even if you gave them a map of Barbados, and you will
still have to get School Teachers or Sanitary Inspectors
to locate families. You are making comparison with Jam-
aica with a population of over one million souls and Trini-
dad and Tobago. Now in Trinidad there was trouble because
Chinese and Indians all lookalike. It is something that peo-
ple want to respect and treat as sacred as one is capable
of, but this is not even the trouble in Barbados. We have ne
language problem and this is what makes registration for
election such a simple matter.

I am appealing to you, Mr. Chairman, and to the Pre-
mier and Government to see whether or not this $1/4 mil-
lion could not be used in another direction. We want another
Harrison Colleve and Queen's College, and this could be
used for things more urgent than sending it to an American
organization because it was done in Trinidad and Jamaica.
You are denying Sanitary Inspectors and a number of School
Teachers the opportunity of carrying home an extra dollar
by working in the evening and well into the night. Even
registration for the Statistical Department of Government
is done similarly and no heavy cost Is involved. Iam unhap-
py about having to spend this $1/4millionwhichcould be
used to tremendous advantage in this country. The hon.
senior member for Bridgetown, the Leader of the Offical
Opposition, with all this milk and water old talk, with nothing
definite, knowing not about this and about that agrees with
and supports all this. I should like the Government to re-
examine all this, because this $1/4 million could go a long
way in the construction of things you really need, and the
School Teachers and Sanitary Inspectors and regularwork-
ers who have done this successfully before could get a pit-
tance and repeat a good job and avoid the creation of a form
of unemployment. You could save this $1/4 million, because
you cannot justify it. You may wrap it in all the language you
like or employ the rhetorical art in an attempt to disclose
reasons why we should spend this money from the Treasury.
The members on the opposite side of the Table realise that
we have not got 15,000 new names. I have not got any figures
before me, but the number of persons who will come on this
new List will not add up to 15,000 new names. Why should we
squander money that could be used to tremendous advantage
to the country?

I appeal to the Hon. Premier on this though it will
probably go through one ear as in the case with the amend-
ment to the Tenantries Bill. We have been surviving cn
Loan Funds and carrying up the country's public debt, and
these are things you want to worry about. I appeal to the
reason of the members of the Government Bench. If you
care you can postpone it until next Tuesday. There is no
reason why you should deny the people who have done it
successfully at little or no cost, and who would do a job
that would be worthy of the Government. I do not think I
need add anything more to what I have said on the matter.
Our illiteracy rate is beneath that of the great United King-
dom with all the Universities. We have not had an up-set-
ting election because of language. We have had no trouble.
What are you anticipating that you want a photograph and
an identification card?
6.55 p.m.

What do you expect by this? The only card which you
get here is Society Cards and Old Age Pension Cards.
Tell me when you register 200,000 souls, what are you
doing? You ought to carry on something. You can see in the
eyes of that sawed -
Mr. CH-AIRMAN: What is the hon. member speaking of?

Mr. MILLER: I can see the panicky expression in the
hon. member's face as he considers what is going to be
the case by the squandering of nearly half million dollars.
Today, you are going to spend a fortune on this. I feel that
you should give this further consideration. Give this closer
examination. You make mistakes sometimes. It happens all
over the world, although I may say that this is consistent
with the Hon. Premier. You can see from the subdued man-
ner of the Hon. Premier and his pathetic plea that he was
trying deep down in his heart to persuade this House.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Chairman, I do not know
whether it is really necessary to answer the Hon. Junior
member for St. George since the hon. junior member for
Peter asked the question. Politically speaking, every
speech made by the hon. junior member for St. George is
the same speech, no matter what the subject matter may
be. If you are talking about voter's registration, if you are
talking on a vote for the University or any of the relative
things which we talk about in this House, you have the hon.
junior member for St. George making the same speech. The
speech which we have heard today from him is the same
speech we have heard all the time bolstered up with a few
maxims and what not.

I think that I should turn to the hon. junior memberfor
St. Peter on the question of why we should implement this
system at this time and at the same time revise the regis-
ter. The last time that the Registerwas revised was on the
31st December, 1963. Since that date, we have made pro-
vision for a reduction in the voting age of the people so that
we have three lots of eighteen year-olds to register now,

As far as the introduction of the new system in con-
cerned, certainly we have been investigating this for a long
time. We have been thinking about this new registration for
a long time. We had some of it drafted and some in the
process of consideration when we were about to revise the
Register, but we could not relate how long this enumeration
and this new Register would take before it comes into

We have other things on our programme to push
through. We have the Laws of Barbados to revise and the
Legislation which we have been introducing for the past six
months would show how much it entails. The answer is as
simple as that.

How do you expect to go to the polls on an antiquated
Register based on the December 1963 qualifications? As I
have said, the person who is responsible has got to be very
careful in the exercise of his discretion, and I certainly
would never advise the Governor to dissolve the Legislature
on the Register. It will be brought up-to-date under
the Representation of the People Act.

As I explained and was at pains to go into the matter
in my introduction of the Resolution, people do not bestir
themselves until a new Register is being prepared. Hon.
members may ask the reason why a great deal of emphasis
is put on the process of social security and why bring it
under the representation of the people. There is no law
as yet as regards social security. There would be no need
to introduce anything in respect of that matter for another
four or five months, but since we want to do all of these
things, we are introducing a new system of registration
under the existing law of the Representation of the People
Act; therefore, we are making provision for social security
under this new method of registration.

Mr. Chairman, I thought that I had made all those
things clear. As I have said, you learnwhen you come into
this Chamber, and the first lesson whichyou learn in here
is that every speech made by the hon. junior member for
St. George is the same speech. Ihaveanswered that speech
since December, 1961 and far from any new passages of the
Irish verse which is quoted by him and which is often diffi-
cult to follow, there has been no intimation of anything new;
therefore I think that I have answered his question some-
where as far back as January, 1962.
The question that this Resolution do now pass was
put and resolved in the affirmative without division.

On motion of Hon. W. A. CRAWFORD, seconded by Hon.
C. E. TALMA, Mr. CHAIRMAN reported the passing of
two Resolutions in Committee.
7.05 p.m.
Mr. SPEAKER resumed the Chair and reported ac-

On motions of Hon. W. A. CRAWFORD, s- conded by
Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS in each case, the Resolutions
passed in Committee were read a first and second time
and agreed to.

Mr. SPEAKER: The next Order of the Day stands in
the name of the hon. senior member for Christ Church:-
To move the passing of the following Resolution:-

Resolution to approve the disposal of a number of
buildings, owned by or agreed to be purchased by
Government, so that improvements can be carried out
at road junctions as set out in the Schedule to the

Hon. C. E. TALMA: Mr. Speaker, the Government, in
furtherance of its policy to carry out certain road improve-
ments and improvements to road junctions at various
corners, has been negotiating for the purchase of certain
buildings and parcels of land at many junctions in the City
area. The Addendum to the Resolution is set out as follows:-

This Resolution seeks, in accordance with the pro-
visions of the Executive Committee (Vesting of Proper-
ty and Transfer of Functions) Act 1964-12, the approval
of the Legislature to the sale of the buildings described
in the Schedule above, to facilitate the implementation
by the Highways and Transport Department of Govern-
ment's highway improvements programme for the re-
spective areas.

These areas are set out in the Schedule to the Resolu-
tion. The various junctions where buildings have been ac-
quired by the Government have, in some cases, taken some
time in the negotiations. The buildings to be sold are those
which the Government has the power to sell. It has been
discovered that it is more economical to sell these buildings
than to demolish them. The sale has been effected and
greater economy has been effected by the sale of these
various buildings. The buildings which are to be sold are all
set out in the Schedule as follows:-

(a) A wall building standing on 4,900 square feet of
land situate at the junction of Tweedside Road and Harmony
Hall Road, St. Michael purchased from Mr. F. L. Gibbons
in connection with the Tweedside Road/Hindsbury Road im-
provement Project;

Mr. SPEAKER: Are all of these buildings set out in the

Hon. C. E. TALMA: Yes, Sir. There are two at Har-
mony Hall Road, one at the junction of Constitution and
Halls Roads, one at the junction of Belmont and Halls
Roads, and so on. As I say, Sir, they have all been set out
here in the Schedule to this Resolution. I beg to move that
this Resolution do now pass.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: I beg to second that.

Mr. MILLER: Mr. Speaker, we support this Resolu-
tion. There seems to be some urgency about it.
The question that this Resolution do now pass was
put and resolved in the affirmative without division.


Mr. SPEAKER: I should like to mention to hon. mem-
bers that there was a Resolution standing in the name of
the hon. Junior member for St. George, which was on my
file last Tuesday. Unfortunately, the hon. member was not
here in time to give notice of that Resolution nor had he
requested any other member of the House to give notice of
it on his behalf. The hon. member is now requesting that
he be allowed to give notice of this Resolution and unless
there is any objection, he may so do.

Mr. MILLER: There is no objection.

Mr. SPEAKER: It is for me to say whether there is
any objection or not. The Chair observes that there is no
objection to the hon. member giving notice of his Resolution,
and the hon. member may accordingly proceed to give
notice of that Resolution.

Mr. MILLER: Mr. Speaker, I beg to give notice of the
following Resolution:-

WHEREAS the local Weightlifting Association is de-
sirous of participating in the Caribbean Weight-lifting
Games to be held in British Guiana on August 1 to 3, 1965;

AND WHEREAS the local weight-lifters are desirous
of defending the John Maralse Trophy which they won in
1959 and which will be decided at the forthcoming games;

AND WHEREASthe Association finds it impossible
to raise enough funds to defray the expenses of sending a
full team of nine to ten persons to take part in these

BE IT RESOLVED that the Government assistthe As-
sociation in this effort by means of a grant of money
sufficient to cover the expenses involved in such a tour.
7.15 p.m.


Hon. W. A. CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker, that brings
Government Business to an end for today, and I beg to
move that this House do now adjourn until Tuesday, 3rd
August, 1965, at 2.30 p.m.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.
The question that this House do now adjourn until
Tuesday, 3rd August, 1965, at 2.30 p.m., was put and
resolved in the affirmative without division, and Mr.
SPEAKER adjourned the House accordingly.

7.17 p.m.

Subsidiary Legislation Supplement No. 38
Supplement to Official Gazette No. 49 dated 20th June, 1-966

L.N. 75
The Sugar Industry (Rehabilitation, Price Stabiliza-
tion and Labour Welfare) Act, 1947
The Cabinet in exercise of the powers conferred
on it by section 20 of the Sugar Industry (Rehabili-
tation, Price Stabilization and Labour Welfare) Act,
1947, as amended, and of all other powers enabling
it in that behalf, hereby makes the following Regu-
1. These Regulations may be cited as the Labour
Welfare Fund (Haggatts Factory) Regulations, 1966.
2. There may be paid out of the Labour Welfare
Fund an amount not exceeding forty-five thousand
dollars which shall be applied by the Labour com-
missioner in the making of ex gratia payments to those
workers who were employed at Haggatts Factory in
the parish of Saint Andrew at the time of its closing
in May in the year 1963 and who were not employed
by Scotland Industries Limited.
3. In determining the persons to whom, and the
circumstances in which, any payment may be made
pursuant to these Regulations, and the amount of any
such payment, the Labour Commissioner shall be
guided by the provisions of the Sugar Factory Workers
Severance Payments Regulations contained in the
Schedule to the Sugar Factory Workers Severance Pay-
ments Act, 1965.
4.(1) Where a person, who may otherwise have
received a payment pursuant to these Regulations,
dies or has died, the amount of any payment which
may have been paid to him pursuant to these Regu-


lations, may be paid to his legal personal representa-
tive or to such of his dependants as the Labour Com-
missioner may think fit.

(2) In paragraph (1) of this regulation "depend-
ants" in relation to any person had the meaning as-
signed to it in subsection (2) of section 13 of the
Sugar Factory Workers Severance Payments Act, 1965,
any reference to "the Board" in the said subsection
being read, for the purposes of these Regulations, as
a reference to "the Labour Commissioner."

Made by the Cabinet this 13th day of June, 1966.

Secretary to the Cabinet.
(M.P. 5014/8 Vol. II)

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