• TABLE OF CONTENTS
HIDE
 Main
 Supplement: House of Assembly Debates...














Group Title: Official gazette, Barbados
Title: The official gazette
ALL VOLUMES CITATION THUMBNAILS PAGE IMAGE ZOOMABLE
Full Citation
STANDARD VIEW MARC VIEW
Permanent Link: http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00076861/00029
 Material Information
Title: The official gazette
Physical Description: v. : ill. ; 33-42 cm.
Language: English
Creator: Barbados
Publisher: s.n.
Place of Publication: BridgetownBarbados Published by authority
 Subjects
Subject: Law -- Periodicals -- Barbados   ( lcsh )
Politics and government -- Periodicals -- Barbados   ( lcsh )
Genre: periodical   ( marcgt )
 Notes
General Note: Caption title.
General Note: Supplements issued for some of the numbers.
 Record Information
Bibliographic ID: UF00076861
Volume ID: VID00029
Source Institution: University of Florida
Rights Management: All rights reserved by the source institution and holding location.
Resource Identifier: aleph - 001043625
oclc - 12594829
notis - AFC6434

Table of Contents
    Main
        Page 493
        Page 494
        Page 495
        Page 496
        Page 497
        Page 498
        Page 499
        Page 500
        Page 501
        Page 502
        Page 503
        Page 504
        Page 505
        Page 506
    Supplement: House of Assembly Debates (Independence) January 4-7, 1966
        Page A-1
        Page A-2
        Page A-3
        Page A-4
        Page A-5
        Page A-6
        Page A-7
        Page A-8
        Page A-9
        Page A-10
        Page A-11
        Page A-12
        Page A-13
        Page A-14
        Page A-15
        Page A-16
        Page A-17
        Page A-18
        Page A-19
        Page A-20
        Page A-21
        Page A-22
        Page A-23
        Page A-24
        Page A-25
        Page A-26
        Page A-27
        Page A-28
        Page A-29
        Page A-30
        Page A-31
        Page A-32
        Page A-33
        Page A-34
        Page A-35
        Page A-36
        Page A-37
        Page A-38
        Page A-39
        Page A-40
        Page A-41
        Page A-42
        Page A-43
        Page A-44
        Page A-45
        Page A-46
        Page A-47
        Page A-48
        Page A-49
        Page A-50
        Page A-51
        Page A-52
        Page A-53
        Page A-54
        Page A-55
        Page A-56
        Page A-57
        Page A-58
        Page A-59
        Page A-60
        Page A-61
        Page A-62
        Page A-63
        Page A-64
        Page A-65
        Page A-66
        Page A-67
        Page A-68
        Page A-69
        Page A-70
        Page A-71
        Page A-72
        Page A-73
        Page A-74
        Page A-75
        Page A-76
        Page A-77
        Page A-78
        Page A-79
        Page A-80
        Page A-81
        Page A-82
        Page A-83
        Page A-84
        Page A-85
        Page A-86
        Page A-87
        Page A-88
        Page A-89
        Page A-90
        Page A-91
        Page A-92
        Page A-93
        Page A-94
        Page A-95
        Page A-96
        Page A-97
        Page A-98
        Page A-99
        Page A-100
        Page A-101
        Page A-102
        Page A-103
        Page A-104
        Page A-105
        Page A-106
        Page A-107
        Page A-108
        Page A-109
        Page A-110
        Page A-111
        Page A-112
        Page A-113
        Page A-114
        Page A-115
        Page A-116
        Page A-117
        Page A-118
        Page A-119
        Page A-120
        Page A-121
        Page A-122
        Page A-123
        Page A-124
        Page A-125
        Page A-126
        Page A-127
        Page A-128
        Page A-129
        Page A-130
        Page A-131
        Page A-132
        Page A-133
        Page A-134
        Page A-135
        Page A-136
        Page A-137
        Page A-138
        Page A-139
        Page A-140
        Page A-141
        Page A-142
        Page A-143
        Page A-144
        Page A-145
        Page A-146
        Page A-147
        Page A-148
        Page A-149
        Page A-150
        Page A-151
Full Text











NO. 43


(6aett


PUBLISHED BY


AUTHORITY


BRIDGETOWN, BARBADOS, 30TH MAY, 1966


TABLE OF CONTENTS
Gazette Notices
Applications for Liquor Licences District "F",
Belleplaine: Richard Hoyte(2).............. 498
Elvina Mottley................................ 498
Appointment to Local Government Service Com-
mission:
F. A. Bishop, I.S.O. & E. D. Inniss.... 493
Commercial Bank Statistics re Liabilities and
Assets at 31st March, 1966................. 505
Consolidated Quarterly Statement of Analysis of
Customers to Commercial Banks at 31st
March, 1966.................................. 505
Executorial: Estelle Louise Bancroft............. 506
In the Supreme Court:.Power vs Forde............ 506
Land Acquisition re land at Gall Hill, St. John 497
Patent: "Oral Preparation"........................ 498
Promotions: G. B. Brandford to be Auditor General 493
R. W. Kellman to be Assistant Auditor
General...................................... 493
Retirement: C. D. Gittens O.B.E. Auditor General 493
Sitting of Licensing Authority District "F"........ 497
Trade Marks: "Bermuda", "Cresto", "Dover
Longs", "Santos Dumont", etc............ 497-504
The Commissions of Enquiry Act, 1908 re
extension of time for submitting Report... 494
Wages Regulation (Shop Assistants) Order, 1966 495, 496

A Bill re Final Appropriation (1965-66).
- - - .
House of Assembly Debates (Independence) January 4-7,
1966.
Legal Supplement
(L.N. 68) Declaration of Approved Enterprise (Barbados
Dairy Industries Ltd.) Pasteurized Milk, Milk
By-Products etc-) (Amendment) Order, 1966


3^ .7gn


NOTICE NO. 422

GOVERNMENT NOTICES

Retirement

C. D. "ittens, O.B.E., Auditor General,
with effect from 5th December, 1966.


Promotions


G. B. Brandford, Assistant Auditor Gen-
eral, to be Auditor General with effect from
8th June, 1966.



R. W. Kellman, Senior Auditor, Auditor
General's Department to be Assistant Auditor
General with effect from 8th June, 1966.

(M.P. C. 55)



Appointment

His Excellency the Governor has been
pleased to appoint Mr. F. A. Bishop, I.S.O.,
Chairman, and Mr. E. D. Inniss, Member, of
the Local Government Service Commission
for a period of one year with effect from 1st
February, 1966.

(M.P. 5929/17)


A








OFIIA AZTEMa 0,16


THE COMMISSIONS OF ENQUIRY ACT, 1908





TO: WILLIAM ADRIAN DATE, ESQ.,
EDWARD ERNEST CASSELL, ESQ.,
LT. COL. ORVILLE FRANK CARDWELL WALCOTT, O.B.E., E.D.,


WHEREAS by Instrument made and dated the twenty-eighth day of February,
one thousand nine hundred and sixty-six, the Cabinet appointed and constituted you the said
William Adrian Date, Edward Ernest Cassell, and Orville Frank Cardwell Walcott to be
Commissioners for the purposes set out therein and directed you to render a report of the
saidenquiry not later than the thirtieth day of April, one thousand nine hundred and sixty-
six:

AND WHEREAS as a result of representations made to the Cabinet the time for
submitting the report has been extended from the said thirtieth day of April until the thir-
ty-first day of May, one thousand nine hundred and sixty-six:


AND WHEREAS it has been further represented to the Cabinet that it is no
longer possible to complete the said report by the thirty-first day of May, and it has been
deemed expedient that the time for submitting the said report should be extended until the
thirty-first day of July, one thousand nine hundred and sixty-six:


NOW THEREFORE the Cabinet by virtue of the power and authority in it vested
directs you to render the report of the said enquiry not later than the thirty-first day of
July, one thousand nine hundred and sixty-six.


Dated this twenty-sixth day of May, one thousand nine hundred and sixty-six.


F. M. BLACKMAN
Secretary to the Cabinet.


OFFICIAL GAZETTE


May 30. 1966







May 30, 1966 OFFICIAL GAZETTE 495




NOTICE


WAGES REGULATION (SHOP ASSISTANTS) ORDER,
1966
NOTICE is hereby given in accordance with the
provisions of paragraph 4 of the Wages Council (No-
tices) (No. 2) Regulations, 1959, that the Shops Wages
Council established by the Wages Council (Shops)
Order, 1958 has received a notice that the Wages
Regulation (Shop Assistants) Order, 1966 has been
made by the Cabinet under the provisions of the
Wages Council Act, 1955.
Copies of t'.is Notice including the text of the
Order may be obtained from the Government Printery,
Government Headquarters, Bay Street, St. Michael.
The text of the said Order is set out hereunder:-

(Sgd.) E. C. QUINTYNE
Secretary.
Shops Wages Council.


The Wages Council Act, 1955(Act 1955-41)

THE %AGES PEULATION (SHOP ASSISTANTS)
ORDER, 1966
Whereas the Cabinet has received :om the Shops
Wages Council established by the Wages Council
(Shops) Order, 1958 (hereinafter in this Order referred
to as "the Council") the wages regulation proposals
set out in the Schedule hereto, being proposals for
fixing the remuneration to be paid by their employers
to workers in relation to whom the Council operates:
Now Therefore, the Cabinet, in exercise of the
powers conferred upon it by section 11 (4) of the Wages
Council Act, 1955, hereby makes the following Order:-

1. This Order may be cited as the Wages Regula-
tion (Shop Assistants) Order, 1966.

2. For the purposes of this Order -
"Shop assistant" means any worker to whom the
Wages Council (Shops) Order, 1958 applies;
"shop" has the meaning assigned to it by section
2 of the Shops Act, 1945.
3. The wages regulation proposals set out in the
Schedule hereto shall have effect from the 1st day of
June, 1966.

4. The Wages Regulation (Shop Assistants) Order,
1963, shall cease to have effect from the 1st day of
June, 1966.
Made by the Cabinet this 19th day of May, 1966.

F. M. BLACKMAN
Secretary to the Cabinet.
(M.P. 1005/11/T.1)









OFFICIAL GAZETTE


May 30. 1966


SCHEDULE

STATUTORY MINIMUM REMUNERATION PAYABLE TO SHOP ASSISTANTS

(1) Minimum Time Rates
(a) The minimum weekly rates of wages payable to shop assistants shall
be:_

Class of Shop Assistant Minimum Rate per Week
Male or Female under 18 years of age $13.00

Female, 18 years and over $16.00

Male, 18 years and over $20.00

(b) Where a shop assistant is not employed on a weekly basis the minimum
daily rate of wages payable shall be:-

Class of Shop Assistant Minimum Rate per day
or part thereof

Male or Female under 18 years of age $2.60

Female, 18 years and over $3.20

Male, 18 years and over $4.00


(4) Minimum Overtime Rates

The minimum overtime rates of wages payable to shop assistant shall be:_

Class of Shop Assistant Minimum Overtime
per hour or part thereof

Male or Female under 18 years of age 47 cents

Female, 18 years and over 57 cents

Male, 18 years and over 71 cents.


496








May 0, 166 OFICIL GAETT


NOTICE NO. 389 (third publication)


LAND ACQUISITION ACT, 1949


(Notice Under Section 3)


NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that it ap-
pears to the Crown in right of its Government
of this Island that the parcel of land (part of
the lands of Clifton Hall Plantation)described
in the Schedule hereto and situate at Gall Hill
in the parish of Saint John in this Island is
likely to be needed for purposes which in the
opinion of the Crown in right of its Govern-
ment of this Island are public purposes:
namely for the provision of a playing field in
Saint John.



Schedule

ALL THAT certain piece or parcel of
land (part of the lands of Clifton Hall Planta-
tion) situate at Gall Hill in the parish of Saint
John in this Island containing by admeasure-
ment 8 acres 0 roods 10.6 perches or there-
abouts abutting and bounding on other lands

of Clifton Hall Plantation on lands of one D.
Small on lands of Small Hope Plantation on
lands of J. Smith on a road leadingto the pub-
lic road on lands of the Barbados Government
and on the public road leading from Saint
John's Church to Bridgetown or however else
the same may abut and bound.


Dated this 17th day of May One thousand
nine hundred and sixty-six at Government
Headquarters, Bay Street, in the parish of
Saint Michael in the Island of Barbados.




F. M. BLACKMAN
Secretary to the Cabinet.


NOTICE NO. 423
LIQUOR LICENCE NOTICE
Form R Regulation 9
Notice of Sitting of Licensing Authority

(Liquor Licence Act 1957-40 Sec. 16)

Notice is hereby given that a sitting of the
Licensing Authority for District "F" will be
held at the Magistrate's Court, District "F"
on Tuesday, 14th June 1966 at 9.30 a.m.for the
purpose of GRANTING LICENCES, TRANS-
FERS OF LICENCES, and ORDERS FOR RE-
GISTRATION OF CLUBS under the above Act.

Dated at Magistrate's Court, District "F"
this 18th day of May, 1966.


A. C. ESTWICK
Clerk to the Licensing Authority.

N.B. All applications MUST reach the Magis-
trate's Court District "F" not later
than 31st May, 1966.


NOTICE ,.O. 411 (second publication)

TAKE NOTICE

FALORINE

That GlaxoLaboratories Limited, a Bri-
tish Company, whose trade or business ad-
dress is 891-995 Greenford Road, Greenford,
Middlesex, England, trading as Chemical
Manufacturers, has applied for the registra-
tion of a trade mark in Part "A" of Register
in respect of Pharmaceutical and veterinary
preparations and substances, and will be en-
titled to register the same after one month
from the 26th day of May 1966 unless some
person shall in the meantime give notice in
duplicate to me at my office of opposition of
such registration. The trade mark can be
seen on application at my office.

Dated this 9th day of May 1966.

C. A. ROCHEFORD
Registrar of Trade Marks (Ag.)


May 30, 1966


OFFICIAL GAZETTE








-*70
OFFICIAL GAZETTE May 30, 1966
~1


NOTICE NO. 424

LIQUOR LICENCE NOTICES
(Act 1957-40)


APPLICANT:
OCCUPATION:
ADDRESS:
PREMISES:


ELVINA MOTTLEY
Shopkeeper
Bonwell, St. Joseph
One (1) Board and galvan-
ized shop situated at Bon-
well, St. Joseph.


Dated this 12th day of May 1966.

Signed: E. MOTTLEY
Applicant.


This Application for a retail licence will
be considered at a Licensing Court to be held
at Magistrate's Courts Dist. 'F' on Tuesday
the 14th day of June 1966 at 10 o'clock a.m.


A. ESTWICK
Clerk to Licensing Authority.


APPLICANT:
OCCUPATION:
ADDRESS:


PREMISES:


RICHARD HOYTE
Butcher
Church Gap, Hillaby,
St. Andrew
A galvanized shop attached
to Board & Shingle residence
at Greggs Hill, St. Andrew.


Dated this 24th day of May, 1966.

Signed: RICHARD HOYTE
Applicant.


This Application for a retail licence will
be considered at a Licensing Court to be held
at Magistrate's Courts Dist. 'F', Belleplaine
on Thursday the 9th day of June, 1966 at
9 o'clock a.m.


H. A. GASKIN
Clerk to Licensing Authority.


NOTICE NO. 379 (third publication)

PUBLIC NOTICE

Patents Act, 1903-7, Sec. 10


NOTICE is hereby given that COLGATE-
PALMOLIVE COMPANY, a corporation or-
ganized and existing under the laws of the
State of Delaware, United States of America,
having a principal place of business at 300
Park Avenue, New York, New York, 10022,
United States of America, hath lodged in this
Office an application and complete specifica-
tion for a patent under the Patent Act 1903
(1903-7), for an invention for "ORAL PREP-
ARATION".

The said Specification has been accepted
and is open to public inspection at this Office.

C. A. ROCHEFORD
Registrar (Ag.)

12th May, 1966
Registration Office.

NOTICE NO. 425
LIQUOR LICENCE NOTICE

Act 1957-40)


APPLICANT:
OCCUPATION:
ADDRESS:


PREMISES:


RICHARD HOYTE
Butcher
Church Gap, Hillaby,
St. Andrew

A wall building at Church
Gap, Hillaby, St. Andrew


Dated this 24th day of May 1966.

Signed: RICHARD HOYTE
Applicant.

This Application for a retail licence will
be considered at a Licensing Court to be held
at Magistrate's Courts Dist. 'F', Belleplaine
on Thursday the 9th day of June, 1966 at
9 o'clock a.m.
H. A. GASKIN
Clerk to Licensing Authority.


OFFICIAL GAZETTE


May 30, 1966








May 30, 1966 OFFICIAL GAZETTE


NOTICE NO. 395 (second publication)



TAKE NOTICE



UNION
CARBIDE




That Union Carbide Corporation, a cor-
poration organized and existing under the laws
of the State of New York, United States of
America, whose trade or business address is
270 Park Avenue, New York, New York, United
States of America, trading as Manufacturer
and Merchant, has applied for the registration
of a trade mark in Part "A" of Register in
respect of Electric batteries; flashlights and
torches; electric lamps and bulbs; carbon and
graphite, and products made partly or wholly
of carbon or graphite including structural
shapes for construction of industrial equip-
ment, and apparatus, equipment and machines
andparts thereof for processing and handling
chemicals and metals; arc carbons; elec-
trodes, anodes and cathodes of all kinds for
electricalpurposes; connecting pins for elec-
trodes and anodes; carbon and graphite
brushes and brush blocks for machines and
electricalapparatus; plastic resins and com-
pounds containing plastic resins; cellulose
and plastic film, sheeting, fabric, tubing, cas-
ings and bags; synthetic organic chemicals;
agricultural chemicals; organosilicon com-
positions; silicones; synthetic zeolites; ad-
hesives; synthetic minerals and synthetic
gems; radioisotopes and other nuclear pro-
ducts; gases, namely, acetylene, oxygen, hydro-
gen, nitrogen, argon, helium, neon, krypton and
xenon; containers for gases; oxygen therapy
apparatus, lasers, semi-conductors, data
processing equipment; calcium carbide, acety-
lene generators; gas lamps; synthetic fibers


and fabrics; box springs and mattresses and
sofa beds; lubricants; washing and cleaning
compositions; polishes and waxes; brake fluids
and de-icing fluids; unwrought and partly
wrought metals and alloys; metal and metal
alloy hard-facing rods, hard-setting inserts,
castings and forgings, pipes, tubes and parts
ofmachinery; metal-ceramic materials; ma-
chines, tools, apparatus and parts therefore
for cutting; welding, heat-treating, plating,
scarfing and otherwise workingmetals, weld-
ing rods, flux and wire; and machines, tools,
apparatus and parts thereof for cutting and
making holes in rock, slag and similar ma-
terials, and will be entitled to register the
same after one month from the 26th day of
May 1966 unless some person shall in the
meantime give notice in duplicate to me at
my office of opposition of such registration.
The trade mark can be seen on application
at my office.


Dated this 9th day of May 1966.

C. A. ROCHEFORD
Registrar of Trade Marks (Ag.)






GOVERNMENT NOTICE
NOTICE

His Excellency the Governor has been
informed by the Secretary of State for the
Colonies thatHer Majesty the Queen has been
pleased to signify by Warrant under the Royal
Sign-Manual the grant of permission to Mr.
Joseph Henry Colin Edghill, Honorary Con-
sul of Denmark at Bridgetown, to wear the
Insignia of Chevalier of the Order of the
Dannebrog conferredupon him by His Majesty
the King of Denmark.

(M.P. C. 462)


May 30, 1966


OFFICIAL GAZETTE








OFFCIA GAET ay3,16


NOTICE NO. 396 (second publication)


TAKE NOTICE


NS OF 1


0LS


That Rothmans of Pall Mall Limited, a
company organised and existing under the
laws of Leichtenstein, whose trade or busi-
ness address is Staedtle 380, Vaduz, Liech-
tenstein, has applied for the registration of a
trade mark in Part "A" of Register in re-
spect of Tobacco, cigarettes and cigars, and
will be entitled to register the same after one
month from the 26th day of May 1966 unless
some person shall in the meantime give notice
in duplicate to me at my office of opposition
of such registration. The trade mark can be
seen on application at my office.

Dated this 9th day of May 1966.

C. A. ROCHEFORD
Registrar of Trade Marks (Ag.)


NOTICE NO. 397 (second publication)


TAKE NOTICE


ThatMiles Laboratories, Inc., a corpora-
tion organized and existing under the laws of
the State of Indiana, United States of America,
whose trade or business address is 1127
Myrtle Street, Elkhart, Indiana, United States
of America, has applied for the registration
of a trade mark in Part "A" of Register in
respect of Pharmaceutical and medicinal
preparations, and will be entitled to register
the same after one month from the 26th day
of May 1966 unless some person shall in the
meantime give notice in duplicate to me at
my office of opposition of such registration.
The trade mark can be seen on application at
my office. "The applicantdisclaims any right
to the exclusive use of the word "SPEEDY"
appearing in the above mark apart from the
mark".

Dated this 9th day of May 1966.

C. A. ROCHEFORD
Registrar of Trade Marks (Ag.)


May 30, 1966


OFFICIAL GAZETTE








---May -, 30 196


NOTICE NO. 398 (second publication)


TAKE NOTICE


That BROWN & WILLIAMSON TOBACCO
CORPORATION (EXPORT) LIMITED, To-
bacco Manufacturers, a British Company,
whose trade or business address is Westmins -
ter House, 7, Millbank, London, S.W., England,
has applied for the registration of a trade
mark in Part "A" of Register in respect of
Tobacco whether manufactured or unmanu-
factured, and will be entitled to register the
same after one month from the 26th day of
May 1966 unless some person shall in the
meantime give notice in duplicate to me at
my office of opposition of such registration.
The trade mark can be seen on application at
my office.

Dated this 9th day of May 1966.

C. A. ROCHEFORD
Registrar of Trade Marks (Ag.)





NOTICE NO. 399 (second publication)


TAKE NOTICE

MAGOX

That Basic Incorporated, a corporation
organisedunder the laws of the State of Ohio,
United States of America, whose trade or
business address is 845 Hanna Building,
Cleveland, State of Ohio, United States of


America, trading as Manufacturers, has ap-
plied for the registration of a trade mark in
Part "A" of Register in respect of Chemical
products for use in manufacturers, including
magnesium oxide, calcined magnesite; and
bricks and construction materials made with
such chemical products, and will be entitled
to register the same after one month from the
26thday of May 1966unless some person shall
in the meantime give notice in duplicate to
me at my office of opposition of such regis-
tration. The trade mark can be seen on appli-
cation at my office.

Dated this 9th day of May 1966.

C. A. ROCHEFORD
Registrar of Trade Marks. (Ag.)


NOTICE NO. 400 (second publication)

TAKE NOTICE


FALGOS


That Sterling Products International, In-
corporated, a corporation organized and ex-
isting under the laws of the State of Delaware,
United States of America, whose trade or
business address is 90 Park Avenue, New
York, New York, United States of America,
trading as Manufacturers, has applied for the
registration of a trade mark in Part "A" of
Registerin respectof Medicinal and Pharma-
ceutical preparations, and will be entitled to
register the same after one month from the
26th day of May 1966 unless some person
shall in the meantime give notice in duplicate
to me at my office of opposition of such re-
gistration. The trade mark can be seen on ap-
plication at my office.

Dated this 9th day of May 1966.


C. A. ROCHEFORD
Registrar of Trade Marks (Ag.)


OFFICIAL GAZETTE


y aM 30 1966








OFIA GAETE ay30 16


NOTICE NO. 401 (second publication)


TAKE NOTICE



^ftI---------30^
F 151 -A


That J. Hungerford Smith Co., a Com-
pany organized and existing under the laws of
the State of New York, United States of Amer-
ica, whose trade or business address is 100
Rawson Road, Victor, N.Y. 14564, New York,
has applied for the registration of a trade
mark in Part "A" of Register in respect of
Coffee, tea, cocoa, sugar, rice, tapioca, sago,
coffee substitutes; flour, and preparations
made from cereals, bread, biscuits, cakes,
pastry and confectionery, ices; hoiey, treacle,
yeast, baking-powder; sale, mustard; pepper,
vinegar, sauces, spices; ice, and will be en-
titled to register the same after one month
from the 26th day of May 1966 unless some
person shall in the meantime give-notice in
duplicate to me at my office of opposition of
such registration. The trade mark can be s,
on application at my office.

Dated this 9th day of May 1966.

C. A. ROCHEFORD
Registrar of Trade Marks (Ag.)



NOTICE NO. 402 (second publication)

TAKE NOTICE

TURMAC

That Turmac Tabak Maatschappij (Tur-
mac Tobacco Company) N.V., A compai) es-
tablished and existing under the Dutc!, Law,
whose trade or business address is Frederik-
splein 52, Amsterdam, (Netherlands), has ap-


plied for the registration of a trade mark in
Part "A" of Register in respect of tobacco,
tobacco goods, cigarettes, cigars, matches
and smokers' articles, and will be entitled to
register the same after one month from the
26th day of May 1966 unless some person
shall in the meantime give notice in duplicate
to me atmy office of opposition of such regis-
tration. The trade markcan be seen on appli-
cation at my office.

Dated this 9th day of May 1966.

C. A. ROCHEFORD
Registrar of Trade Marks (Ag.)



NOTICE NO. 403 (second publication)


TAKE NOTICE


I AXI


That UNITED BISCUITS LIMITED also
trading as McVITIE & PRICE and as MAC-
FARLANE, LANG & CO. and as WILLIAM
CRAWFORD & SONS and also as WILLIAM
MACDONALD & SONS BISCUITS) whose trade
or business address is 12, Hope Street, Edin-
burgh 2, Scotland, has applied for the regis-
tration of a trade markin Part "A" of Regis-
ter in respect of Biscuits, cakes, shortbread
and flour confectionery, and will be entitled to
register the same after one month from the
26th day of May 1966 unless some person shall
in the meantime give notice in duplicate to
me at my office of opposition of such regis-
tration. The trade mark can be seen on appli-
cation at my office.

Dated this 9th day of May 1966.


C. A. ROCHEFORD
Registrar of Trade Marks (Ag.)


OFFICIAL GAZETTE


May 30. 1966







OFFICIAL GAZETTE


NOTICE NO. 404 (second publication)


TAKE NOTICE

PEN-O-LED

That Standard Oil Company, a corpora-
tion organized and existing under the laws of
the State of New Jersey, United States of
America, whose trade or business address is
Flemington, New Jersey, United States of
America, with offices at 30 Rockefeller Plaza,
New York, New York, United States of Amer-
ica, trading as Producers, Manufacturers and
Marketers of Petroleum Products and Petro-
chemicals through Affiliated Companies, has
applied for the registration of a trade mark
in Part "A" of Register in respect of indus-
trial oils and greases (other than edible oils
and fats and essential oils); waxes used in
manufacture; lubricants; fuels and illumin-
ants, andwill be entitledto register the same
after one monthfromthe26th day of May 1966
unless some person shall in the meantime
give notice in duplicate to me at my office of
opposition of such registration. The trade
mark canbe seen on application atmy office.

Dated this 9th day of May 1966.

C. A. ROCHEFORD
Registrar of Trade Marks (Ag.)


NOTICE NO. 405 (second publication)


TAKE NOTICE


BERMUDA


That The American Tobacco Company, a
corporation organized and existing under the
laws of the State of New Jersey, United States
o6America, whose trade or business address
is 150 East42nd Street, NewYork, New York,
United States of America, trading as Manu-
facturers, has applied for the registration of


a trade mark in Part "A" of Register in re-
spect of Tobacco, whether manufactured or
unmanufactured; and cigarettes and cigars,
and will be entitled to register the same after
one month from the 26th day of May 1966 un-
less some person shall in the meantime give
notice in duplicate to me at my office of op-
position of such registration. The trade mark
can be seen on application at my office.

Dated this 9th day of May 1966.

C. A. ROCHEFORD
Registrar of Trade Marks (Ag.)


NOTICE NO. 406 (second publication)


TAKE NOTICE


That Chesebrough-Pond's Inc., a cor-
poration organized and existing under the
laws of the State of New York, United States
of America, whose trade or business address
Is 485 Lexington Avenue, City, County and
State of New York, United States of America,
has applied for the registration of a trade
mark in Part "A" of Register in respect of
Soaps, perfumery, essential oils, cosmetics,
hair lotions, dentifrices, and will be entitled
to register the same after one month from
the 26th day of May 1966 unless some person
shall in the meantime give notice in duplicate
to me atmy office of opposition of such regis-
tration. The trade mark can be seen on appli-
cation at my office.

Dated this 9th day of May 1966.

C. A. ROCHEFORD
Registrar of Trade Marks (Ag.)


.... in 10A u


y aM 30 1966








OFIIL AETEMy3,16


NOTICE NO. 407 (second publication)

TAKE NOTICE


CRESTO


That Sterling Products Limited, a British
Company, whose trade orbusiness address is
Plantation Providence, East Bank, Demerara,
British Guiana, has applied for the registra-
tion of a trade mark in Part "A' of Register
in respect of Shortening and Lard Cornpotund,
and will be entitled to register the same after
one month from the 26th day of May 1966 un-
less some person shall in the meantime give
notice in duplicate to me at my office of op-
position of such registration. The trade mark
can be seen on application at my office.

Dated this 9th day of May 19( 6.


C. A. ROCHEFORD
Registrar of Trade Marks (Ag.)


NOTICE NO. 408 (second publication)

TAKE NOTICE


GOLDEN CREAM


That Sterling Products Limited, a British
Company, whose trade or business address is
Plantation Providence, East Bank, Demerara,
British Guiana, has applied for the registra-
tion of a trade mark in Part "A" of Register
in respect of Margarine, and will be entitled
to register the same after one month from
the 26th day of May 1966 unless some person
shall in the meantime give notice in duplicate
to me atmyoffice of opposition ofsuchregis-
tration. The trade markcan be seen on appli-
cation at my office.

Dated this 9th day of May 1966.

C. A. ROCHEFORD
Registrar of Trade Marks.(Ag.)


NOTICE NO. 409 (second publication)

TAKE NOTICE

BAKERS' PRIDE

That Sterling Products Limited, a British
Company, whose trade or business address
is Plantation Providence, East Bank, Dem-
erara, British Guiana, has applied for the re-
gistration of a trade mark in Part "A" of
Register in respect of Shortening and Lard
Compound, and will be entitled to register the
same after one month from the 26th day of
May 1966 unless some person shall in the
meantime give notice in duplicate to me at
my office of opposition of such registration.
The trade mark can be seen on application at
my office.

Dated this 9th day of May 1966.

C. A. ROCHEFORD
Registrar of Trade Marks (Ag.)


NOTICE NO. 410 (second publication)

TAKE NOTICE


MARIGOLD

That Sterling Products Limited, a British
Company, whose trade or business address
is Plantation Providence, East Bank, Dem-
erara, British Guiana, has applied for the
registration of a trade mark in Part "A" of
Register in respectof Margarine, and will be
entitled to register the same after one month
from the 26th day of May 1966 unless some
person shall in the meantime give notice in
duplicate to me at my office of opposition of
such registration. The trade mark can be seen
on application at my office.

Dated this 9th day of May 1966.

C. A. ROCHEFORD
Registrar of Trade Marks (Ag.)


OFFICIAL GAZETTE


May 30, 1966








May 30, 1966 OFFICIAL GAZETTE


Consolidated Quarterly Statement for end of March, 1966


Section 13 (1) (b) of the Bank Act, 1963


ANALYSIS OF CUSTOMERS LIABILITIES TO COMMERCIAL BANKS IN RESPECT
OF LOANS, ADVANCES AND OTHER ASSETS

(All Figures in E.C. Dollars 000 omitted)


I SHORT TERM LOANS AND ADVANCES


(i) Primary Production ...
(ii) Other Industries ...
(iii) Personal ...
(iv) Other Advances ...


7,439
26,920
5,012
5,714


45,085


II LONG TERM LOANS FOR CAPITAL PURPOSES


(i)
(ii)
(iii)
(iv)


Primary Production ...
Other Industries ...
Personal ...
Other Advances ...


3,162
8,198
1,452
1,915


14,727

59,812


COMMERCIAL BANK STATISTICS


Consolidated Statement of Assets and Liabilities as at
31st March, 1966

(All Figures in E. C. Dollars 000 omitted)


LIABILITIES


ASSETS


Notes in Circulation

Deposits

(i) Demand

(ii) Time

(iii) Savings

Balances due to
(i) Banks in Barbados
(ii) Banks abroad
Other Liabilities


19 Cash ...
Balances due by other
banks in Barbados


26,318

15,881

... 30,812



810
4,100
... 3,246
81,186


Balances due from
banks abroad
Loans and Advances

Investments
Other Assets


2,794


1,304



... 10,871
... 59,812

... 446
... 5,959




81,186
=


May 30, 1966


OFFICIAL GAZETTE








OFFCIA GAET ay3,16


NOTICE NO. 426
NOTICE

Re the Estate cf

ESTELLE LOUISE BANCROFT

Deceased


NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that all per-
sons having any debt or claim upon or affect-
ing the estate of Estelle Louise Bancroft late
of Pavilion Court, Hastings, in the parish of
Christ Church in this Island, who died in this
Island on the 24th day of December, 1965 are
hereby requested to send in particulars of
their claim duly attested to the undersigned
P.O. Box 626C, Bridgetown, Barbados on or
before the 30th day of June 1966 after which
date we shallproceed to distribute the assets
among the parties entitled theretr having re-
gard to the debts and claims of which we
shall then have had notice, and that we shall
not be liable for the assets so distributed to
any person of whose debt or claim we shall
not have had notice at the time of such distri-
bution andallpersons indebtedto the said es-
tate are requested to settle their accounts
without delay.

Dated this 26th day of May 1966.


ROYAL BANK TRUST COMPANY
(BARBADOS) LIMITED.
The qualified Executors of the Estate of
Estelle Louise Bancroft (deceased.)


NOTICE NO. 427


IN THE SUPREME COURT OF BARBADOS

(Civil Jurisdiction)


No. 197 of 1966


ALWYN DENZIL POWER:


Plaintiff


EDWARD DARLINGTON FORDE:Defendant

Any person having any claim, lien or
charge against the property described here-
under shall submit such claim duly authenti-
cated on oath to me on or before the 28th day
of July 1966.

PROPERTY: ALL THAT certain piece or
parcel of land situate at Road View in the par-
ish of Saint Peter in this Island containing by
admeasurement sixteen hundred square feet
or thereabouts abutting and bounding on lands
formerly of Sweetfield Plantation on two sides
on lands of Texaco West Indies Limited and
on the Public Road or however else the same
may abut and bound.

VALUE OF PROPERTY: $2,000.00


Dated this 24th day of May 1966.

C. A. ROCHEFORD
Registrar of the Supreme Court (Ag.)


Government Printing Office.


OFFICIAL GAZETTE


May 30, 1966












THE






House of Assembly Debates





(OFFICIAL REPORT)


SECOND SESSION OF 1961-66


HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY

Tuesday, Ith January, 1966.


A Special Meeting of the House of Assembly was held
at 1.00 o'clock p.m. today.

PRESENT
His Honour J. E. T. BRANCKER, Q.C., (Speaker)
Mr. W. A. CRAWFORD; Mr. K. N. R. HUSBANDS; Mr.
F. C. GODDARD; Mr. E. St.A. HOLDER, J.P.; Hon. J. C.
TUDOR, M.A., (Minister of Education); Hon. G. G.
FERGUSSON, (Minister of Agriculture and Fisheries) Mr.
W. R. COWARD; Mr. R. St.C. WEEKS, J.P.; Mr. W. R.
LOWE; His Honour E. L. CARMICHAEL, J.P., (Deputy
Speaker); Mr. L. A. LYNCH. J.P.; Mr. G. V. BATSON,
(Chairman of Committees); Hon. N. W. BOXILL, (Minister
of Communications and Works) and Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS,
(Minister of Trade and L abour),
Prayers were read.
MINUTES

Mr. SPEAKER: Ihave the honour to inform the House
that the Minutes of the meeting of 14th December, 1965,
have been duly circulated and unless there is any objec-
tion, they will be confirmed. (A Pause)

There being no objection, I declare the Minutes of that
meeting duly to be confirmed.

SPECIAL MEETING

Mr. SPEAKER: I have the honour to inform the House
that in accordance with a notice which was sent out with
reference to representations made to me by the Minister
of Education that the Public Business requires that the
House meet on a date earlier than the date to which it was
adjourned, this Special Meeting has been called whereat
will be considered the one and only Item on the Agenda.

PAPERS LAID

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, I am com-
manded to lay the Annual Report of the Public Assistance
Board for the period April, 1964 March, 1965.

Hon. N. W. BOXILL: Mr. Speaker,Iamcommanded to lay
the Statement showing sums advanced to the Postmaster
General for the payment of Money Orders, the amounts
repaid to the Accountant General, and the amounts due by
the various Post Offices to 31st October, 1965.






3 8,. '72 9
3 1Z

^D ^ S ^ ,, .


NOTICE OF REPLY

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I beg to give notice
that Oral Reply to Parliamentary Question No. 90/1964
asked by the hon. senior member for St. Joseph, is ready.

NOTICE OF RESOLUTION

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, I beg to give notice of the
following Resolution:-

WHEREAS the last salaries revision for Civil Ser-
vants and Public Employees in this Island came into effect
on 1st April, 1961;

AND WHEREAS the cost of living in this Island has in-
creased immeasurably since that date;

BE IT RESOLVED that this House request Government
(a) to appoint without undue delay a Commission
to report on and revise the Salaries of Civil Ser-
vants and Public Employees and to increase the
allowance to Old Age Pensioners; and
(b) pending the submission of the said Report,
immediately to grant an allowance to all Civil
Servants and Public Employees to cushion the
shock in the increase in the cost of living.

STATEMENT BY SPEAKER RE STATE-
MENT IN THE PRESS

Mr. SPEAKER: I have to draw to the attention of this
Honourable House an article appearing in a newspaper en-
titled "The Daily News", dated today, Tuesday, January
4, 1966 on the front page of which there is stated in black,
bold type "MILLER WILL BE ABSENT" "Independence
debate gets underway in House today" (News Political Re-
porter).

"Mr. FREDDIE MILLER, Parliamentary Leader of
the Minority Opposition Barbados Labour Party, will not
be in his seat today when debate begins in the House of
Assembly at 1 p.m. on the Premier's resolution seeking
independence alone for Barbados.

"Mr. Miller was suspended by Speaker, Mr. J. E. T.
Brancker, during a meeting of the Assembly last month
for five sittings. So far, three sittings of the House have
passed since the suspension which means Mr. Miller can-
not return for another two.

"However, in addition to the suspension, Mr. Miller
is also a patient at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital and it is
not known whether he will be able to attend the debate
even after his suspension period is up."

Iamdrawingthis article to the attention of hon. mem-
bers because it contains two gross and grave misstate-











ments, utterly and completely misleading as each of them
is, and I take a very grave view of the passage which I
have just read to the Chamber, I would let it be known that
unless prompt action is taken to have this corrected and
I would like to have the same publicity accorded to this
correction and apology as has been given to the misleading
article I shall take such steps as lie in my power by
virtue of Standing Order No. 70 and otherwise.

I do say this in respect of the statement that so far as
three sittings of the House have passed since the suspen-
sion, the facts are as follows:-

The hon. junior member for St. George was suspended
at a Special Meeting on the 25th November, 1965, The fol-
lowing meetings of the House have taken place since then: -
1.20 p.m.

Imust add that I do not regard an abortive meeting as
a meeting, but on the following dates, meetings of this
Chamber have taken place since the 25th November, namely
30th November, 7th December, 14th December 17th De-
cember and 21st December, On those dates meetings of
this Chamber were held, which means that the sittings
have passed in respect of which the suspension of that
member was effective. Secondly, I will add this which, I
thought was so commonly known, that there was no sus-
pension of Mr. Miller by the Speaker: the suspension was
by virtue of Standing Order 36 of this Chamber and it was
on a motion which was duly carried, ThatStanding Order
is Standing Order 36 Section 3. I have nothing more to say
about this matter at this stage, but I direct the Clerk to
make this newspaper a document of the House.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I rise to say that
this side of the House fully supports Your Honour's views
in this matter and therefore regard it as gross contempt
of this House. We on this side are content to leave to your
direction the way this offending newspaper may be purged
of this contempt. When we realized that the hon, junior
member for St. George had fallen under the discipline of
the House, we were more than careful to see to it that
meetings of this House were arranged so as to accommo-
date the hon. member, and that when we came to this mat-
ter on which we are engaged today, the hon. member, as
the Leader of the Minority Party in this House, should be
quite ready and willing to resume his place in this Cham-
ber. I therefore wish to exonerate the Government Party
of the charge which was laid upon it, namely, that we had
done this thing in order to prevent the hon, member from
exercising his right in this Chamber. The matter of pun-
ishment for this contempt is left entirely to Your Honour's
discretion,

SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDERS

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move the
suspension of Standing Orders 5, 14, 16, 18, 40 and 45 for
the remainder of this debate. I should like to give the
House some idea of the times at which we should have the
debate suspended in order to facilitate meal times. I should
ask for the suspension of the sitting at 2,30 o'clock p.m.
to resume at 3 o'clock,and again at 7 o'clock p.m. I am
asking hon. members who are speaking, when the appro-
priate time arrives for the suspension of the sitting for
meals, that they give way.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that,

Mr. GODDARD: Mr. Speaker, we, on this side of the
Tablewould like to know a little more detail, Can you tell
us when we propose to close today's sitting?

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: The hon. member is quite right
because that has slipped me. I propose that we work until
10 o'clock tonight, and tomorrow until 6 o'clock, and on
the last day until we are finished.
The question that Standing Orders 5, 14, 16, 18, 40and
45 be suspended for the remainder of this debate was put
and resolved in the affirmative without division,


RESOLUTION re SOVEREIGN NATIONHOOD
WITHIN THE COMMONWEALTH

Mr. SPEAKER: The first, and in fact, the only Order
of the Day stands in the name of the Honourable and
Learned senior member for St. John and it is to move the
passing of the following Resolution:-

"Resolution requesting Her Majesty's Principal Secre-
tary of State for the Colonies to convene, at the earliest
opportunity, a Conference to arrange the constitutional
financial, defence and other details incidental to, and aris-
ing from, the assumption by the people of Barbados, of
Sovereign Nationhood within the Commonwealth in 1966."

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, there is in the con-
stituency of His Honour the Deputy Speaker a monument
which commemorates the landing of the settlers in Bar-
bados in 1605, People who are more accurate in their his-
torical facts believe that the settlers came to this island
from the United Kingdom in the year 1625, This Parlia-
ment was first instituted in 1639.

There are many people, eventhe Editors of Halsbury's
Laws of England, who are not fully cognizant of the nature
of the relationship which exists between the dependent
countries in the Commonwealth and the metropolitan coun-
try.
1.30 p.m.


We have in this Island a flexible constitution in the full
and truest sense of the term. Unlike the inflexible constitu-
tion of the neighboring country of Trinidad and Tobago
and the constitution of the United States of America, our
constitution bears similarity only to the constitution of the
United Kingdom, in that it is partly founded on convention
and usage, and partly contained in written statutes and
constitutional documents known to us in this Parliament as
the Letters Patent and the Royal Instructions.


Whenthe settlers landed in 1625, they brought the laws
of the United Kingdom with them: so that all the laws, cus-
toms and usages of Parliament were imported into this
Chamber on its foundation in 1639. You may wonder, Mr.
Speaker, why it is necessary for me to make this excur-
sion into the dim recesses of the constitutional history of
this Island. It is preciselybecausethere are so many peo-
ple in this island who are unaware of the long, slow pro-
cess of constitutional evolution of which the Resolution
which we are discussing today is the apotheosis that it is
necessary for me to have this debate conducted on a level
where the people whom we are addressing will understand
the premises from which we speak and the premises on
which we stand.


When the Parliament convened in 1639 it was convened
under the Lords of the Councilof this island this was the
correct Parliamentary description the Lord Lieutenant
General of the Island, the Lords of the Council and the
General Assembly of this Island to make laws for the
better governmentofthe territory under a franchise gran-
ted by the Sovereign of the United Kingdom. These Terri-
tories were run as plantations.We have not fullygot rid of the
plantation mentality. A franchise was granted to Sir William
Courteen, the Earlof Carlisle, who appointed as Governor
the Eighth Lord Willoughby, and in exchange for this fran-
chise a certain tribute was exacted by the Imperial Gov-
ernment in the form of taxation which was levied on the
peopleofthis country by a process of sub infeudation from
the Lord Lieutenant-General himself on to the lesser, may
I call them,barons and on to the lower order of plantation
chivalry that existed in those days, if there is any chival-
ry in the plantation system. In the year 1651 this was a con-
siderabletime beforethe American Declaration of Indepen-
dence, precisely perhaps 125 years before the famous
Declaration in what is now known as the United States of
America by the thirteen British Colonies which we have
helped to populate and to develop from these shores in Bar-











bados -- the Lords in Council and the General Assembly of
this Island in protest against the Navigation Laws, the same
type of Navigation Laws that the thirteen Colonies rebelled
against 125 years later, they were a bit slower than the
people of Barbados issued their famous Declaration of
Independence, not from this Chamber, because as far as I
can discover, this Chamber had not been built, but certain-
ly the Lords of the Council and the General Assembly of
this Island declared themselves an independent nation. The
significant thing about this is that I have not been able to
discover anywhere in the records of this House that the
Unilateral Declaration of Independence which was made
in 1651 has ever been repealed by this House or by any.
other person. May I just digress here one moment to say
that I do not think there is any such thing as a Unilateral
Declaration of Independence? You either make a Declara-
tion of Independence, or you agree mutually to sever the
bonds which bind you to the metropolitan country. I will
deal with the Unilateral Declaration of Independence at a
later stage.

Shortlyafter this Declaration, in those days they used
to have a General in charge of fleets -- the Barbados Land-
ship is not singular -- General Sir George Ayscue bom-
barded the townshipof Oistins, and after two days' fighting
a long boat was launched with a white flag and a treaty was
signed between the people of Barbados and the United King-
dom Government at a place called the Mermaid Tavern in
the Townshipof Oistins on the southern coast of this island,
The Mermaid Tavern is no more. The treaty I have not
been able to find. It is probably in the British Museum or
in the vaults of Somerset House in London: but it is a fact
that the treaty was signed. In that treaty the people of Bar-
bados agreed to pay 4 1/21o in exchange for the repeal of
the Navigation Laws vis-a-vis the merchants and colonists
of this country. Our relationship therefore with Great Bri-
tain has never been a "status" relation from the very
early days which existed in places more properly describ-
ed as Crown Colonies and which achieved internal self-
Government only in the 1950s -- territories like Trinidad
and Tobago, the Lesser Antilles, Mauritius and all the oth-
er island territories over which Britain held sway.

Right from the beginning and long before some of
these territories were discovered or settled, the relation-
ship between the people of this country and the Government
of the United Kingdom had been relationshipofcontract
and not a relationship of status. That is what has proba-
bly distinguished Barbados from any other West Indian
island. Its approach has always been a contractual approach
and not kn approach of status. We continued to make laws.
You will find the very earliest Act we have on the Statute
Book is, as far as I can remember, in 1667, a law against
forcible entry into any lands or tenements. I have unsuc-
cessfully invoked the provisions of this ancient law on two
or three occasions, but it is still enshrined in the Statute
Book of this island, and it appears that in those days such
a law was necessary because of the rebellious nature of
some of the inhabitants,
1.40 p.m.
When the restoration of the monarchy took place re-
cognition was given to the loyalty of Barbados which is
now proverbial and to me sometimes is questionable in
the sense that Barbadians hold loyalty to things which they
know nothing about. They do not understand their duty of
loyalty to their own country under the Constitution, but this
loyalty to the British Government was acknowledged. This
means that this Island was treated with a certain amount of
deference to the extent that the island has been left to man-
age its ownaffairs. Far from the British Government eith-
er contributing one penny to the support of the general re-
venue of this Island in a direct manner and I go as far
as to say evening an indirect manner from that time until
today, all the Pro-consular officials have been paid by the
people of Barbados although they had no say in their nom-
ination. The Chief Secretaries not only have been paid, and
continue to be paid, but the people of Barbados also pro-
vided them with living accommodation and with luxuries which
are not even vouchsafed to Ministers of Government today,
although we are responsible for running the Government
today. All of these things Barbadians have accepted. It has


been accepted that the Colonial Secretary should have a
Policeman to guard his residence, and it has been accepted
that the Governor should have three motor cars and police
escort. It is not even thought that a Minister is even entitled
to the courtesy of a messenger in his office, standing up
when he comes to a room, although Ministers rise to their
feet and stand when any visitor approaches. As I have said,
from that day right on to this, the British Government has
not contributed one penny towards the general revenue of
this island.

We have always had a non-elected second Chamber, a
situation not dissimilar to that ich exists in the United
Kingdom today. Other territories, on the other hand,re-
ceived and are still receiving substantial annual grants-
in-aid, notof development, but in aid of administration and
to pay the same Pro-consular officers, the same Civil
Servants, and to pay for the keeping of law and order. As
I have said, they are not for the purpose of paying for the
carrying out of development programmes, but paying for
administration; and unless one appreciates that there are
territories whohave lived on the "hand-outs" of the Colo-
nial Office from time immemorial and that Barbados has
never been in this invidious position, you cannot under-
stand how difficult it is for us in the West Indies to come
together under constitutional arrangements.

In the last Federation the grant-aided territories
were subjected to discourteous treatment by the Federal
Minister of Finance. In Port-of-Spain the Chief Minister
of Antigua had to stand waiting for his Estimates to be ap-
proved by the Federal Minister of Finance, and eleven
months later the Chief Minister had to borrow money from
private sources to pay the Police. He was humiliated and
kept waiting in the corridors of the Federal House at Port-
of-Spain. We in Barbados have never found ourselves in
this position where we had to ask for financial aid from
what is fondly and I say "fondly" advisedly -- described
as the Mother Country, We have never been in this unhappy
situation. As a matter of fact, I can recount where we have
contributed towards the revenues of the United Kingdom.

We have a long history of constitutional Government
which ante-dates the constitutional history of the United
States, which ante-dates the constitutional history of any of
the West Indian territories, which ante-dates the consti-
tutional history of the South American countries. It should
be that when the Leader of the House rises to his feet and
says "Mr. Speaker, I beg to move that this Resolution do
now pass", if the Lezer of Her Majesty's loyal Opposition
fully understood the nature of his functions, he should say
"I take great pleasure in seconding this motion on behalf
of the people whom we represent" and this should be the
end of the debate.

But since this Resolution is momentous in the history
of the Island and since we have our ignoramuses, our
criminals and our cut-throats we do have our politically
ambitious people of flexible views it is necessary for
me to make abundantly clear and have recorded for all
time the reasons behind the Government of this country
bringing forward this resolution at this momentous stage.

Mr. Speaker, in 1862, the territory of Jamaica en-
joyed a constitution similar to ours in which there were
two Houses of the Legislature, in which they exercised full
control over their internal affairs, but their Constitution
was taken away. It was taken away, I believe, at the in-
vitation of large numbers of the articulate citizens of
Jamaica because there had been certain abuses of the Con-
stitution. Because of that, Jamaica had to revert to the
position of a Crown Colony.

Mr. Speaker, you will be surprised to know that as
recently as 1939, the leader of one of the parties onthe
other side, supported by a former Minister of this Govern-
ment, suggested to the Royal Commission after the dis-
turbances in 1937 that Barbados should revert to a Crown
Colony status when Jamaica had regained her original
status. It is there in the Irecords where Sir Grantley Adams
suggested that as a solution to the constitutional and
economic problems of this country.
1.50 p.m.


A











You will find during the course of this debate that I
am going to make a very serious attempt to be restrained,
Today, those of us on this side of the House have every
cause, reason and justification to be angry at those people
who would pull this Island down for their own personal am-
bitions; we would have every reason to be angry at those
people who do not even take time off to think who they are,
where theyhave come from and where they are going. When
the Royal Commission came down here in 1939, exactly
300 years of the date when we began to run our own af-
fairs, it was suggested seriously and supported by people
who are in this House today and who are sitting on the op-
posite side of the Table, that Barbados should revert to
Crown Colony status. The economic solution of the island's
ills was that the island of Barbados should be developed
into half-acre lots and a half-acre lot should be given to
each family. That is again the Prime Minister of the late
Federation. He did not elucidate on a point raised by Mr.
Morgan Jones as to whether his half an acre would be in Broad
Street and my halt an acre would be in Grave Yard, St.
Lucy: but the arithmetic was interesting because, at the
end of his proposal, Mr. Morgan Jones asked Sir Grantley
Adams what he was going to do with the other 60,000 peo-
ple, who would be left over. From his arithmetic there
would be 60,000 people left over even after his proposal.
Thereplywasto "Get rid of them." I am not trying to stir
up any animosity against anyone. I am saying what is on
the record and what I heard with my own ears. I am trying
to illustrate that300 years after the establishment of this
ancient Legislature, you stillhave people in Barbados who
are incapable of thinking rightly either for themselves or
for the people whom they unfortunately represent. I have
the honour to be the Leader of a Party which is the first
Party in the historyof the West Indies, the first Party in
the history of the Island whichhas ever published and made
clear in its programme before an Election, that the Party
sought independence for the people of this Island. I have
been a member of two political parties in this island; I
have been affiliated with another. I was affiliated with the
British Labour Party. I was a member of the Barbados
Labour Party and Iam Chairman of the Democratic Labour
Party. Iam ashamed of, but I do not regret my association
withthepartywhich was the former Government Party be-
cause I used to think I knew everything about human be-
haviour. Terms like 'good' and 'evil' were abstractions as
far as I was concerned. I did not understand the full im-
port and meaning of the terms 'good' and 'evil' until I was
associated with the Barbados Labour Party. Like I dis-
covered of so many other people on the other side, I found
that they had an inexhaustible potential for wrong doing.
There are people on the other side who have such an in-
exhaustible potential for wrong doing that they are pre-
pared to sell their country for half a pound of Mello-Kreem
or Velvo Kris. Both of those cooking fats,I understand, are
products, the raw material of which is imported from the
Lesser Antilles, manufactured in Barbados and re-exported
to the Lesser Antilles, just one hundred miles away, at
prices which are not afforded the housewives of Barbados.
There arepeople who may read this debate and who may not
understand the allusion.

Mr. Speaker, despite my former association with that
Party, the people of Barbados forgave me as they forgave
you, and re-elected us in 1961 as the constitutional Gov-
ernment of this country. We are now witnessing another
unsuccessful attempt to take over the running of the country.
We are still the constitutional Government of this country
and, as such, the people have put us here to implement a
certain programme, a programme whichwas put before the
electorate in 1981. You can compare the constitutional
practice here in Barbados today withthe practice in a neigh-
bouring territory, where without any recourse to the Legis-
lature, without any public debate whatsoever, without any
warning or discussion even with the closest confidants of
the Leader of the Government himself, or people who con-
sidered themselves to be close to the Government, it was
announced that Trinidad and Tobago sought their Indepen-
dence. Upto today there has been no debate in Trinidad or
Tobago about Independence. Therewas a debate subsequent
to the announcement of Independence. Criticism of the
draft constitution was sought from the Boys' Scouts and
Girl Guides, the Dorcas League, the Odd Fellows, and such


groups. That was the exercise in democracy that they went
through. The exercise in democracy that we have gone
through is that we stated our intention before an election.
We faltered by the wayside to see if we could collect some
of our lesser brethren in the sense of more unfortunate
brethren together along the road to Independence with
us, that is where we wasted three and one half years in this
exercise. Having been diverted from our main objective,
we have merely returned to the mandate of the people and
the expression of our intentions as demonstrated in the Mani-
festo of the Democratic Labour Party.
2.00 p.m.

These are the facts. In 1961 on the 4th December when
this Government was returned, there was a Federation of
the West Indies. That Federation was not dissolved until
May 1962 by the West Indies Federation Dissolution Act of
April of that year, and the West Indies Dissolution Act
made provision by Order in Council to take away, to confer,
and otherwise to deal with the constitutions of all terri-
tories in this area: and it is rather ironic, Mr. Speaker,
that the Federation should have broken up on the everyday
on which by the recommendation of the 1961 Conference in
London it was supposed to have become independent. The
two richest territories seceded with the consent and ap-
proval, and I will go so far as to say, with the connivance
of Her Majesty's Government. Shortly thereafter we
journeyed to London, and the result of our labours was a
Command Paper laid before Parliament, and also laid in
this Legislature, No. 1746 whichsets out certainproposals
for a Federation.

Mr. Speaker, I just want to say that when you hear the
talk mooted about in the atmosphere about Independence in
a Federation, I want to know what Federation they are
talking about. It could not be an existing Federation, be-
cause there is no West Indies Federation existing today,
and there has not been a Federation of the West Indies
since 1962; and the remarkable thing is that although one
speaker was able to boast that he had held 60 meetings
himself on this Federation that we were turning our backs
on in Barbados, a Federation does not exist in fact or in
law between us and the other seven territories in the
Eastern Caribbean I am talking about one speaker, not
of the mushroom rebel organizations spawned by the
machinations of the other side which sprung up during the
period between August and now; I am talking about a single
speaker who claims holding sixty meetings, not of the pro-
fessional mercenaries. We have no money over this side.
Whether he was a mercenary or not is not for me to say,
because it would be invidious since he is a member of the
Other Place; but if he were not a member of the Other
Place, I would go further: however, I do not want to intro-
duce an acrimonious atmosphere into the debate, although
I am an angry man today. Not one single meeting has been
held in any territory in the Eastern Caribbean since the
Tenth Meeting of the Regional Council of Ministers, but
certainly no meeting at all suggesting that the Government of
Barbados should not proceed to Independence now, although
in order to attract attendance to several of their meetings
the Opposition announced that there would be speakers
from the other islands who have not materialised and who
are in a state of spiritualistic ectoplasm.

Mr. SPEAKER: I will remind persons outside this
Chamber proper that there is a Standing Order which says
that if behaviour is disorderly, a question can be forthwith
put that strangers do withdraw. Strangers must be seen
but not heard.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, as I was saying,
not one speaker has emerged. I remember the quotation
"Eight times emerging from the flood she mewed to every
watery god some speedy aid to send; No Dolphin came, no
Nereid stirred, Nor cruel Tom or Susan heard, A favourite
has no friend." The people on the other side are the cats
who were drowning in a tub of goldfish.

Mr. SPEAKER: Hon. members.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: I said the people on the other
side; a bunch of mangy cats drowning in a tub of gold fish,












and no Dolphins from the other seas appeared, noNereid
stirred, no cruel Tom or Susan heard; these favourites
appeared to have no friends at all. But in order to attract
attention and this would not normally be in the debates
of the House, and I am making sure it goes in they ad-
vertised theywere having speakers from the other islands.
Nobody has appeared: no materialisation has taken place:
so one would have to ask oneself what Federation they
were fighting for, because it was clear from 1963 to all of
us who were engaged almost in mortal combat with Her
Majesty's Secretaryof State and his legal advisers that the
British Government had no confidence in any Federation of
the Eastern Caribbean, and no intention to make any capi-
tal or other contribution to a Federation. The British Gov-
ernment is now prepared to make contributions to in-
dividual territories, provided they can keep their eyes on
their money; and when you consider the context in which
the Constitution of Grenada was taken away, and what was
happening in other Windward and Leeward Island ter-
ritories in financial mismanagement, you cannot blame the
British Government for keeping a careful eye on the tax-
payers money.

I remember I woke up one morning earlier this year
in a cold sweat; I do not know what was agitating my mind,
and at the first light of dawn, I telephoned the Hon. Minis-
ter of Education and told him my experience a couple of
hours before and I said these four words: 'They nearly
had us." It was because I had been working over the draft
Federal Scheme in preparation for a document which was
subsequently published and laid in this House on 17th
August, 1965. When I used those words, "they nearly had
us", wewere going into this exercise in all good faith with
our eyes shut, because like in so many other departments
of life, we assumed that what we are accustomed to pre-
vails in other places and will continue to be so for ever-
more hereafter.
2.10 p.m.

We assumed that we were going into a federation and
that there would be the same degree of financial integrity,
the same respect for constitutional propriety as exists in
this Island. Mr. Speaker, I just want to say that I am a
West Indian, and there is no one who is more West Indian
either by birth or by inclination or otherwise than I am. I
always refrain from disclosing any legislative matters
which I know about which would be detrimental to the suc-
cessful carrying out of the federal exercise. Probably, I
have done an injustice to the people of Barbados. Anyhow,
I did nothing that an atmosphere of recrimination should
be introduced at any stage, and so I suppressed matters
which should have better seen the light of day. I do not
think by doing so I betrayed the trust of hon. members of
the House because my motives were altruistic.,'

No one can accuse me of doing what the Prime Minis-
ter of Trinidad and Tobago did of pointing out at any stage
of our deliberations that there were 1,000 people from one
Island alone coming into this territory and remaining each
year. Our natural growth of population, distinct from im-
migration, represents between 3,000 and 4,000 annually,
and you have 291o of people in the lowest strata coming in-
to the country and contributing to the delinquency of the
country. That is not being personal to anybody. That has
been quoted by the Police every week, and, therefore, I
was not taking my duty as seriously as I should have been
by coming in and telling this Assembly what was the in-
creaseincrime as the result of the immigration situation.
I have said that we had a policy that as long as we were
engaged in this federal exercise we were not going to dis-
criminate against anybody coming from the Eastern Carib-
bean. People from the other Islands have come and landed
in Barbados without visas, money and everything. The
country in the Commonwealth which could least afford to
have any kind of immigration, this Island of Barbados, is
the country which has kept its doors opened. They have
contributed to our delinquency. Some people wonder why
is it that we accept one thousand of them in addition to our
natural population growth. But there is a time when things
have to be said and I have been holding my peace for too
long; therefore, I am going to make a positive statement
that 50lo of -the crime in this Island has been perpetrated


by people outside of Barbados. I speak of the crime dis-
covered. We cannot increase the Police Force from month
to month to accommodate the delinquency of people from
outside.

Dr. Williams of Trinidad pointed out these things in
1962. He published a lengthy preamble of his Unilateral
Declaration of Independence. and it was certainly a shock
to Mr. Reginald Maudling who was then Secretary of State
for the Colonies because it was not anticipated by Mr.
Maudling until he arrived in Trinidad. The preamble by
Dr. Williams pointed out the economic and social effects
of immigration of people from the Eastern Caribbean into
Trinidad and what it would mean in terms of school places,
housing, health standards and jobs.

We live in a countrywhich has unemployment. Our latest
survey shows that twelve to thirteen per cent of the people
of working age are unemployed; yet we accommodate 1,000
more people who are not Barbadians to come to the country
and stay. I said that this has been condoned because of the
political association which every one expected: but even
the Opposition parties are now convinced that that is an
empty dream for the moment. It is still a dream for-soma
of us on this side.

Let us put aside the increase in crime. I understand
that it is being said that I have abused the Chief Ministers.
I have not abused any Chief Minister: all of them are my
friends. Of the five Chief Ministers, three of them are my
former clients. Do you want a better record than that? I
have no reason to doubt that they will be again my clients one
of these days when I begin to work for a competent living
rather than existing on the political pittance which is
handed out to Government Ministers as a sop for their
services,

I receive letters from all of them-one quite recently; so
if I make a statement of fact about our statistics on crime,
this is not anything to be annoyed about. If I say that Dr.
Williams said that the proposal to have freedomofmove-
ment would create serious problems which Trinidad could
not support and did not intend to support even after the
end of ten years, is this supposed to be abuse of your
neighbours? These are unfortunate factors of colonialism,
There are some people in Barbados who would want to tell
you that there is no such thing as colonialism and that we
are British subjects and that we are happy to be called
British subjects. But the worst thing about colonialism is
this. These Islands in the Eastern Caribbean onlybegan
to get off the ground since they were taken over by demo-
cratic governments in their Islands which were respon-
sible to the people. Of course, the last Government of this
Island was made up of a bunch of non-performers and they
are out of office. This Government is performing and that
is why it will continue in office. No one is going to be con-
tent to be treated as second class citizens in perpetuity.
No one is going to be content to sit down indefinitely and
watch places like Gambia, Togoland, Malta with only 95
square miles and even the Cooke Islands that no school
child has heard about, Islands with atotalpopulationof
11,000 and 12,000 and with populations smaller than many
constituencies of ours, being represented and sitting around
the United Nations table.
2.20 p.m.

Nobody in this Party wants a seat in the United Na-
tions for prestige purposes. Our stand is for the people
of Barbados in perpetuity; it is the only state which the
Almighty God has ordained. On the 12th October last I
tabled a Resolution and this is the Resolution, the main
part of which I have recited. This has to go on the record
and since Your Honour has only recited the last para-
graph, it is appropriate that I should read the whole Reso-
lution so that the premises from which we are arguing will
be appreciated. The Resolution which was tabled on the
12th October, 1965, reads as follows:-

WHEREAS the pre-election Manifesto of this Govern-
ment issued in November, 1961 stated inter alia:

"The road to destiny is the road to Independence.
Towards this goal the country must press on.












As the island has never been a grant-aided territory
is no reason why within or without a Federation Barbados
should not attain the full stature of independence nowwith-
in the British Commonwealth.":

You will remember, Sir, I said earlier about this
statement that it is the first time in the history of the
Caribbean that any political party has made such a state-
ment in its programme and published it to the people in
booklet form, printed and paid for by the members of the
Party and not by the merchants. I will continue, Sir. The
Resolution goes on to state this:-

"AND WHEREAS a Federation of ten British Carib-
bean territories then existed, and continued to exist until
its dissolution on 31st May, 1962;

AND WHEREAS this Government has, from January,
1962, to April 1965, engaged in discussions with the Gov-
ernments of the Windward and Leeward Islands on the
establishment of a new Federation:

AND WHEREAS these discussions were carried on
without hindrance to the constitutional and economic de-
velopment of Barbados, which attained full internal self-
government in May, 1964;

AND WHEREAS these discussions have proved fruit-
less for several reasons, among which are --

(a) the failure of the Government of the United
Kingdom to indicate the quantum of development finance
which would be available to the new Federation:"

We have been requesting them to do this from 1963,
In fact, we were asking them to do it from 1962. In the
White Paper which was laid on the Table of this House on
the 17th August, 1965, you will see from that that no less
person than the Officer administering the Government of
this island of course we are administering the Govern-
ment but the Pro-consular Official who is much appre-
ciated by members on every side of the House you will
see that Sir John Stow himself I think Ican callhis
name wrote to the Secretary of State for the Colonies
and informed him that "there was no prospect or little
prospect of the discussions, coming to a satisfactory con-
clusion unless Her Majesty's Government made a clear
and unequivocal statement on the quantum and duration of
financial assistance which would be provided for the Fed-
eration." They were not making any money available for
Barbados because we foolishly made money available for
theminl941, by giving them 100,000 out of the Hurricane
Emergency Fund which is now dissolved. The War was
costing something like $13 million a day and the 100,000
we gave them probably went down the drain every day in
the potato peelings which were used.

I am referring to the White Paper. I should like to
back up my statement by the actual quotations because
what I said just now was only a paraphrase of what His
Excellency the Governor said to the Secretary of State for
the Colonies. You will find it in paragraph 23 on page 10
of the Federal Negotiations 1962-65 which appears as the
White Paper. It is the only White Paper which has been
published in the history of this island. We have had people
who claim that they are Barbadians writing all sorts of
things in newspapers, but this is what is stated in this
paragraph 23 of the Federal Negotiations published as a
White Paper:-
"The Seventh Meeting of the Regional Council of Min-
isters was held in Antigua between the 9th and 11th of Sep-
tember, 1963. And on the 14th September, the Secretary
ofStatewas informed that the Conference unanimously en-
dorsed a request that financial assistance on the scale
envisaged in Dr. O'Loughlin's survey be made available
and that no Conference to settle the details of a Constitu-
tion for an Independent Federation be held until satisfac-
tory assurances about the quantum and duration of
assistance by Her Majesty's Government bad been ob-
tained."


This is now published in Barbados as the Seventh
Meeting of the Regional Council of Ministers. This is not
a meeting of the Ministers of this Government; it is a
meeting of the Premier of Barbados and the Chief Minis-
ters of the various islands.
2.30 p.m.

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, I am
drawing to your attention and that of the Hon. Leader of
the House the promises made to us when we suspended the
Standing Orders.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: The hon. member always has
food on his mind. This is a serious discussion and he is
getting up talking about food.

Mr. SMITH: On a point of order, I never mentioned
anything about food, and I feel it is rude of the Hon. Premier
tobetelling me about food. If he tells me about food, I will
tell him about Cox.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: When the hon. member went to
eat in the House of Commons, I understand he clapped his
hands with glee and said "Coxie, food I food "

No reply from the Secretary of State was received
for a period of several months, and on 23rd January, 1964,
the Chairman of the Regional Council of Ministers in-
dicated to the Secretary of State that there was mounting
frustration and criticism inthe delay which, if allowed to
continue, could wreck any hope of ever forming a Federa-
tion. That is the Governor of the Island writing to the
Secretary of State, and I had permission to publish it.

Mr. Speaker, it is very difficult in the middle of a
paragraph on a quotation, because the Public Buildings
clock has chimed, to immediately assuage and allay the
pangs of hunger of members on the other side. I will give
way to the Hon. Leader of the House and the hon. junior
member for St. Joseph.

SUSPENSION OF SITTING

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move that
this sitting be now suspended for half an hour.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.
The question was put and resolved in the affirmative
without division, and Mr. SPEAKER suspended the sitting
accordingly.

On Resumption:
Mr. YEARWOOD: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I observe that
there is no quorum, and ask that you direct the Clerk to
ring the Bell.
The Bell was rung and a quorum was obtained,

Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: When the sitting was sus-
pended, the Hon. Premier was addressing the Chair.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Deputy Speaker, before the
suspension, I was reading the Preamble to the Resolution
which was tabled on the 17th August, 1965. I should like to
continue with your permission, since it is already a docu-
ment of the House, to read the Preamble to this Resolution
whichwe consider part and parcel of the Resolution itself,
although it might not be the substantive part which will be
sent to the Other Place. I had got to the stage. Mr. Deputy
Speaker, where I was reciting that partly of the Preamble
which dealt with the failure of the discussions which had
continued for the space of three and half years fruitlessly.
I had read the first part where in some paragraph it was
stated that one of the reasons was the failure of the Gov-
ernment of the United Kingdom to indicate the quantum of
development finance which would be available to the new
Federation.


I












I should like to make the position of my Government
abundantly clear. When we decided unilaterally and I
say unilaterally because without any reference to the peo-
ple of Barbados I took independent members of the House,
the Leader of the Opposition and others to conferences to
see if we could patch together the wreckage of the former
Federation; I think that we were overly ambitious, but no
one can blame us for trying. What I find strange is that
having confessed that we are not the creators of mankind
and that we could not succeed in doing what the Almighty
did not do when he brought certain people into this world,
that is to put sense into their heads, I do not think that
this Government should be vilified for taking the people of
Barbados on the road to independence that we had di-
gressed from in 1962 and thereafter. To me this is the
strangest situation that could exist in any country with
ancient traditions like this one. We have witnessed the
most sordid exercise of political vilification that has ever
taken place in any place outside Nazi Germany and the
Soviet Union, We have seen people with strong Marxist
leanings coming together and being political bed-fellows
with the Capitalists of this country. We have seenthugs
and criminals; we have seen attacks on people's homes,
assassination of their characters and the ruthless ex-
ploitation of the people of this country over a period of
three or four months: and for what reason, one may ask?
Because the duly constituted and duly elected Government
of Barbados made an admission, an admission which had
been made by the Government of Antigua, by the Govern-
ment of Jamaica, by the Government of Trinidad and To-
bago and by the Government of Montserrat.
3.10 p.m.

Allofthem realise the impracticability and, I go so
far as to say, the impossibility of making any progress
along lines of associations which have been contrived by
a Government, far removed, Mr. Deputy Speaker, from
the day to day battle for existence that goes on in these
colonial territories. The kind of contrivance, as I pointed
out in the White Paper only two days before the calamity,
the kind of contrivance which is likely to prove disastrous
in Nigeria; the kind of contrivance which has not succeeded
in any colonial territory in the Commonwealth.

Sir, I should like to quote and I make no apology for
quoting from the White Paper the various alternatives
which today confront the people of Barbados. I came
straight down from Sherbourne and conferred with the
Hon. Leader of the Opposition on the 28th April, 1965. I
came down and conferred with the Leader and Deputy
Leaderofthe Opposition and the former Minister of Trade
and the Speaker himself. I would say that the Hon. Leader
of the Opposition, more than anybody else in Barbados,
was somewhat skepticalof the success of any Federation
and he continues to be skeptical. If I had listened to the
hon. member, the Leader of the Opposition, I would never
have had to be addressing you on this today. He is a man
possessed with a great understanding of the baseness of
human nature. I pay him this compliment although I am not
quite sure it is a compliment.

You would not expect, Sir, after discussing this mat-
ter for three and a half years, how surprised we were to
hear all of a suddenithat members on the other side were
championing the pursuit of the Federal dream. For three
and a half years, Chief Ministers of the other colonies
were coming up here discussing, not only problems re-
lating to the Federation, but we were giving them advice
and encouraging their people to come to Barbados to work
to the detriment of the people of this country. In the mean-
time, not one of them on the opposite side had the decency
to ask a Chief Minister to come to his home and have a
cupoftea. There are some members over there who would
not even ask some members of the House to come to their
homes and have a cup of tea. We are living in a country
in which you can be sitting next to a boy in Harrison Col-
lege and in the evening after schoollhe passes you by as if
you never existed. That is the kind of people which you
find inthese islands. We in Barbados, more than any otLer
people in any part of the world, have exhibited how not to
live together in unity. We have mastered the art of how not
to live together in unity, and there are no greater practi-


tioners of this than the hon. members on the other side
who now claim to be the champions of the people from the
other islands.

I can tell you that there are some of them who if they
are having a political meeting in somebody's house, you
will find one not inviting the other person because that
person is not acceptable in that house; therefore, what are
the ties that bind together? There is no philosophy or ide-
ology among the political mercenaries on the other side;
therefore, it is not passing strange that they are not fight-
ing for the independence of their country.

I was dealing with this kind of association that the
British Government contrived. We would never get together
in the West Indies until we fashion something of our own.
We have a peculiar situationin the West Indies. There is
no political formula that you can translate from Europe or
America that can have application to a situation such as
what we have inherited here in the West Indies.

In the White Paper, in paragraph 77 on page 39 Mr.
Joshua of St. Vincent has said that this paper is almost
accurate document. This is what has been stated:-

"Wherever two or three territories could be gathered
together, the contrivance of federal constitutions has been
for the past one hundred years an inevitable act of final
absolution performed by departing British officialdom.

78. "No other colonial power has pursued the goal
of federalism with such zeal and religious fervour and
none has left behind such a spectacular record of divided
communities and absolute failures. The Confederation of
Canada was created by the British North America Act of
1867. Ninety eight years later there is a strong clamour
for separation of the province of Quebec.

79. "Australian states have beenengaged in squab-
bles with the Federal Government which have ended up in
the highest c urts in the Commonwealth,

80. "The Nigerian Federation is very tenuously
held together but considerable friction exists between the
four regions and no one can guarantee its survival. The
Central African Federation was dissolved to avert blood-
shed on 31st December, 1963, after tenshort years of
existence.

81. "The West Indies Federation floundered after
three purposeless years and the Malaysia Federation,es-
tablished as recently as September, 1963 has had its com-
munal difficulties and is held together only by the threat
of Indonesian aggression. Since no such threat or induce-
ment exists in the Eastern Caribbean, any movement to-
wards integrationofthe people of the area must spring not
only from a natural desire for independence but primarily
from a reasonable expectation, if not a certainty of econo-
mic advantage. The movement must be sustained by a full
appreciation and understanding of its implications and by
mutual respect and sincerity of purpose."

Three days after I tabled the White Paper, from the
Malaysian Federation it was announced that the Prime
Minister of Singaporehad withdrawn his country from it.
This is the only Government that you will find that pre-
dicted it. Who are these people that are trying to dictate
to the elected representatives of the people? Whence came
they? They have never faced a general election; they have
never made a political decision; they have never seen a
single document from the Regional Council of Ministers;
yet they have arrogated to themselves to dictate to the
elected representatives of the people to say that they are
right and we are wrong,
3.20 p.m.

That is proved. I continue with my apologies for the
digression. The only threat of aggression I would use is
because there are those disgruntled politicians who are
willing to pay money in order to assassinate people. Well,
let them assassinate the Cabinet of Barbados. If they con-
sider that their political philosophy is so important, well,


I












let them do that. They can do it; but they will be swept
awayin a torrent of bloodshed if they touch one hair of the
head of any of the Ministers. There are those for whom
the bell tolls: you can listen to it tolling, This is the sor-
did state to which we have degeneratedin this island. We
started this in 1651, I have Schomburg's History of Bar-
bados, and we committed an act of sequestration then. I
should like to apologise for saying that I have not found a
rescission of this act of sequestration. I have found that
we had to sign a request of capitulationwhich I shall read,
but as far as this Government is concerned, there will be
no request of capitulation signed at all. There will not be
any concession or amendment to our Resolution in this
matter. There will not be the slightest acceptance of any
modificationwhatsoever because we do not intend to capitu-
late on this matter since we consider it a fundamental
issue of human rights.

Mr. Speaker, I shall continue to read the Resolution
which we have before us, I continue from paragraph 81.
When I say "I", I mean "We" in contradistinction to the
loyal members of the Opposition. We recognize allthe
conventions. We adhere to them and we respect them, We
have a convention of collective responsibility in my Gov-
ernment, and the act of one of us is the act of all of us,
Fromthis principle there cannot be any derogation. Those
who are politically flexible, who should have been exceed-
ingly lucky to be here resuscitated and brought back into
respectable society, even although they may consider that
these principles are capable of emendation, we do not ac-
cept it. That is why we shall have to overcome. I went on
to say in paragraph 81 that "Since no such threat or in-
ducement," that is the threat of aggression "Since no
threat or inducement exists in the Eastern Caribbean any
movement towards integration of the people of the area
must spring not only from a natural desire for indepen-
dence but primarily from a reasonable expectation, if not
a certainty, of economic advantage. The movement must
be sustained by a full appreciation and understanding of
its implications and by mutual respect and sincerity of
purpose."

That is what we are being criticised for today, We
have said that none of these experiments has been a suc-
cess. We do not want to have an assassination of anybody
else for having a different opinion from us. Those are the
facts. People like the late Professor Ivor Jennings, when
they wrote on the Federal Constitution, although realising
the difficulties and stating certain prerequisites of Fed-
eration, theywere not able sufficiently to break down their
analysis to be an accurate guide to people who were em-
barking on this exercise for the first time, Only a West
Indian who is working with West Indians, or a Malaysian
who is working with Malaysians today will understand the
full implications of the Federal exercise. It is one of the
most difficult of exercises.

Let me put it in this way, I am treating you, Sir, with
all the respect which is due to you, and through you, John
Citizen, the man in the street. The Federation broke up
when two colonies seceded and three others pulled out. I
told Sir Stephen Luke that we were not here to work as
scavengers; we do not want to have a Federation at all
costs with the loss of our self-respect. We were very
careful during our campaign not to create any atmosphere
of embarrassment for the Government that was in power
then, by campaigning against their breaking up of the Fed-
eration. I want all of this to go down on the record.
3.30 p.m.

I want it to go down on record that Sir Grantley Adams
went to Jamaica and had an interview at 10,20 in the mor-
ning with Norman Manley who was President of his politi-
cal party, the Federal Labour Party, and half an hour
after, he called a Press conference in Jamaica, in Mr.
Manley's territoryof which Mr. Manley was Premier. Mr.
Manley was President of his Party, and he as Federal
Prime Minister, envious of Mr, Manley's position in the
hearts and minds of the West Indian people, envious of
Mr. Manley's leadership of the Party, indignant of the
fact -- and I am going to call names that he and the hon.
gentleman who was Chief Whip of the Conservative Party,


Mr. Buchan-Hepburn got on very well. He was the Chief
Whip, the axe man of the Conservative Party who was
made Governor-General of the West Indies and became
Lord Hailes. He married the granddaughter of Lord Dur-
ham, another Federalist. They got together in Antigua. I
was in Antigua and I am talking here for the first time, al-
though I have Sir Grantley's voice on tape recording in
Queens Park when he said that Mr. Manley was the most
politically dishonest person he had ever met. It was a di-
rectly personal matter, and I am going to expose all be-
cause I was in Antigua with Mr. V. C. Bird, than whom
there is no greater statesman. If I had listened to him, we
would have been independent in May last year when we
brought in our new Constitution.

Mr. Manley, Lord Hailes and Dr. Williams decided
that the leadership of the Federal Government was worse
than useless. Dr. Williams used those words, and he was a
member of the Federal Labour Party. We were not in it;
we were in the Opposition, but both sides invited us to join,
and the Hon. Leader of the House can tellyou. Sir Grantley's
Party asked us to join and we said "No". The Federal
Democratic Labour Party asked us to join and we said
"No", because we, said the part could not be greater than
the whole. We were the first Democratic Labour Party in
the West Indies, and there were more capitalists and hum-
bugs in the Federal Democratic Labour Party than in the
Federal Labour Party. These gentlemen got together in
Antigua when I was there, and I did not want to provide any
grist for the mill of the Barbados Labour Party or the
Federal Labour Party, and that is why I did not say any-
thing about what they said. They said that the only way to
get rid of Adams was to make him a member of the House
of Lords because he would jump at that, and then they
would have a Federation of the West Indies and if Sir
Grantley Adams said it, it is the only truthful thing he said
in his life because I was there. I was not at the meeting; I
was not a part of the conspiracy. I was an accessory after
the fact. I plead guilty. He was to go to the House of Lords.
Theother person who was to go to the House of Lords was
Lord Gordon of Castries and the third person was Lord
Nelson himself. You may not know who that is, but that is
Mr. Learie Constantine who for years played for Nelson
Cricket Club and he was to be called Lord Constantine of
Nelson,
We had a Federal Government, but Mr. Adams de-
liberately brokehis journey and went through Jamaica and
paid his compliments to Mr. Manley, and immediately
thereafter called a Press conference. Let us not fool our-
selves. Sir Grantley Adams is still alive and may God
preserve him to see Barbados become independent al-
though not under his leadership: so let us preserve his
body and soul. He belongs to the dim recesses of history.
Mr. Adams did not reject the idea of going to the House of
Lords, but what he wanted to do was to go to the House of
Lords and remain Federal Prime Minister and get rid of
the only threat who was Mr. Manley, Chairmanof the Party,
When he heard for the first time that these things were
possible, that the British Government used the system of
honours in order to get rid of people whom they found em-
barrassing, that it is not for services rendered but for
services which you have not rendered they call it kick-
ing you upstairs and when he realized that for the first
time in the West Indies a man of African descent could go
to the House of Lords, because it had come from no less
a person than the dispenser of patronage himself, because
the person in charge of patronage for a number of years
in the British Parliament was Mr. Buchan Hepburn who
was Governor-General of the West Indies, this struck him
like a big brick.
I am saying, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that he wanted to
be a member of the House of Lords and be Federal Prime
Minister, and you will remember, Sir, that in 1958 when
my colleagues and I, when the hon. senior member for St.
Peter who is General Secretary of the Barbados Worker's
Union and a man whose name I will never forget, whose
skin was of a different pigmentation than mine, but who
was a human being, the late Deputy Speaker of this House,
the late Athol Edwin Seymour Lewis, better known to us
as "T.T." -when we campaigned throughout this island
in 1958, it was not because we were anxious to go to any












federation, but as political protagonists we could not
allow people to win an election by default. It was not politi-
cally or economically or in any other way expedient for the
General Secretary of the Barbados Workers Union, Mr. "T.
T." Lewis, the Hon. senior member for Christ Church on
my right and the Hon. Leader of the House here on my left,
for any one of us, to be in a Federal Government, but as a
political party you could not profess to represent people
unless you were prepared to fight the issue and we did not
put up a half-hearted fight. I am still making an analysis
of the results of that election and they are revealing. Out-
side the parish which you represent and the neighboring
parishes of St. Andrew and St. Thomas, the parishes as it
were -- do not take this in a derogatory sense of difficult
terrain, with the polling stations miles apart, we got the
remarkable result that 17o of the electorate turned out in
densely populated parishes like St. Michael and Christ
Church and 7370 turned out in the most difficult parishes.
Have you ever studied the results, Sir? Are you surprised
that any Federation founded on dishonesty or run on such
statistical dishonesty has failed?
3.40 p.m.

Can a Federation grounded upon dishonesty or can any
Government grounded on that kind of statistical dishonesty
survive?

During the last Federationl said night after night that Mr.
Adams could not make up his mind about going to the Federation
because Mr. Manley did not make up his mind; therefore,it
was only a matter of days after the news came out that Mr.
Manley had declared his intention to remain at home that
Mr. Adams declared his intention to run in the Federal
elections.

I made two predictions. If you do not blow your own
trumpet, nobody is going to blow it for you. I said: (1) that if
Mr. Adams were elected, he would be the first and last
Prime Minister of the West Indies. I said: (2) that the Fed-
eration would last just over three and a half years. It
expired and breathed its last, despite the efforts to apply
artificial respiration, on the 31st May, 1963. Why did it
breathe its last? Without warning Mr. Manley what he was
going to do, Mr. Adams went to Jamaica and called a Press
Conference immediately after discussing other matters with
Mr. Manley and said that the Federal Governement intended
to impose retroactive taxation for five years. There are some
of us who cannot pay taxes for a year, far less pay retroac-
tive taxes, and we are supposed to be better off than many
others in the West Indies. Therefore, you can imagine the
dramatic effect of a declaration like that in a country like
Jamaica where the two parties are equally balanced. The
immediate effect of that announcement was that Mr. Manley
was forced into the position where he declared a referendum,

I do not want anybody to get up and ask any stupid ques-
tions in this House. Nobody is going to advise us. There is
no provision in this Island for a referendum, and as long as
this Government is in power there is not going to be one. As
long as this Government is in power, there is not going to
be any proportional representation. We have had a direct
franchise all this time. The only electoral reform we pro-
mised to do is to abolish the anachronism of dual-member
constituencies. As far as electoral reform is concerned
there is no electoral reform to be performed in this Island;
we have fought and won those battles. If Mr. Anthony Green-
wood elects to put into the hands of the other Islands consti-
tutional proposals that there can be a Unilateral Declaration
of Independence by any of the islands of the Lesser Antilles
after a two-thirds vote of the legislature, that is a matter
for him and them; but he could not be so crazy as to send
these proposals to the elected Government of Barbados.

A lot has been approved in this Island. I am merely
stating the constitutional position of the Government vi s-a-vis
the electorate of this Island. I am not making any proclama-
tion of dictatorship; the "Daily News" has written in Mon-
treal that I want to proclaim and make myself President of
this Island for the next twenty-five years. Anyhow, we have
court cases in Montreal and in Barbados and I would say no
more about that. But, can you imagine even the Hon. Leader


of the Opposition in the fulness of his power in the Bridge-
town City Council even proclaiming himself as a dictator?
The women would tear him in bits.

I am a penniless politician, but I want to remain an
honest one: and if you want to be honest to the people, you
have to tell them the plain facts of life. If they do not like
the decisions taken by the Government in office, they have
recourse to the ballot box. This is what we call a democratic
system of Government, and as long as this Government is in
office we will stick to that, I have heard a former Premier
of this Island who is now no longer in the Party to which I
regret I belonged, declare that the only thing a Legislature
could not do is to make a man a woman and a woman a man,
I believe that assertion came from Professor Dicey.

People must understand that a good Government is put
there to make decisions. I have to make decisions on the part of
the peopleof this Island. You can sleep better in your bed
because we make these decisions. As a matter of fact, a
democratic Government functions best with organised opin-
ion. It virtually amounts to this, that at election time the
people place the decision and policy power into your hands.
To make you keep on a straight and narrow path, the political
party should normally declare its intention, inwhat is called
a Manifesto, of the things which should be made clear.

Therefore, you have two checks. You have the ballot
box and you have to publish a programme in what is called
a Manifesto; otherwise any man can get up on a public
platform and say whatever he likes.
I remember that one gentleman promised that he was
going to run a four-inch main from Brandons Beach to one
of the central parishes so that the people up there could
get a sea bath. You can make all kinds of promises and say
all this nonsense if you do not have a Manifesto.
3.50 p.m.
I am not ridiculing the gentleman. In his enthusiasm he
wanted to do so much for the people that he did not see that
he could not put everything in a Manifesto. You cannot put
things like that in the Manifesto. What you put in the Mani-
festo is a serious matter. All of the things in the Manifesto
may not be capable of performance within certain periods
of time, but those are your objectives I get very irritated at
the pace at which the machinery of Government works
sometimes; sometimes I feel extremely frustrated about that.
I see that Civil Servants take home files night after night
and you cannot get a proper summary made of a problem.
It is a questionof your training and capacity for doing things,
especially where the atmosphere is competitive and you have
to produce results; but we train ourselves to deal with things
quickly. If I am able to get certain things done in three
months, I would still be a happy man.
Mr. Speaker, these are things which have beenpublished
in a document where people can challenge us about them. If
you were to tear out the first four pages of the Manifesto,
well, none of the Ministers will accept the responsibility
for them because none of these things are capable of per-
formance within that time. You can look at the propositions
in that part of the document, and the rest of the document,
You go through it after page four, page by page, and you will
see that within a matter of eleven days of this Party having
been elected to office, we had instituted a crash programme
which is still going on in this island, and the crescendo of
that programme is increasing. On the first day of the Ses-
sion, members on the opposite side well, not all of them,
the Hon. Leader of the Opposition I like to give the Devil
his due. Of course, I am not referring to the Hon. Leader
of the Opposition as a Devil. The Hon. Leader of the
Opposition had the political sense to support the passing
of a Resolution for the sum of $250,000 at Christmas time.
That was not an Election plank because the Election had
passed and the enemy had been scattered in all directions.
We instituted that programme and because traditionally
the House used to be adjourned and members used to go
inside and drink, they said that we had no right introducing
that Resolution then.
I go back now to the checks and balances. If you have a
declaration of your intention towards the people of this Island,











then the people of this Island can check your declaration
against your performances, and that is the test, and the
only test, which will be applied to a Government in a demo-
cracy. The test is not to buy votes by bribes; and you can
never in a democracy hope to get rid of the Government in
that way. You can only remove the Government when the
people are dissatisfied with that Government. The Govern-
ment has been put there to makedecisions and this Govern-
ment has made a decision. I want it to go down on the record
of this House because, as I said in my earlier remarks, I
am an angry man: but I am still restrained because I am
not yet ready to be otherwise. I do not think that in intro-
ducing this debate I should make it impossible for people
to redeem themselves because if I were to start exposing
them, they will have to go into hiding. If I said that I cannot
possibly tell all the truth in Barbados that is so; because
it is sordid and the Government has to survive so that the
people's work can be done. There are a few delinquents in
this island who want to pull down the country. However, I
will overpower them on that score.

There are some members on the opposite side of this
House who gave interviews to the Members of the Press
and said all sorts of slanderous things about me and the
Government. All I have said about Independence Ihave said,
and the Ministers have agreed with me. This is what I
want to say and I have been studying the behaviour of
people. Last year in September I flew down with a friend
of mine, and he is one of the greatest Ministers which the
Caribbean area has ever produced. The two of us went out
at the invitation of the Secretary of State for the Colonies.
Mr. Speaker, I am merely stating the facts because there
are certain things which you cannot discard,
4.00 p.m.

Mr. Speaker, when you are in a country, you owe
loyalty first to that country. You can have difficulties and
differences: but whatever your difficulties and differences,
whether the country is an independent country or whether
the country is a non self-governing territory or whether
it is a grant-aided territory, the society meaning the
Government, because that is the policy-making sector
of the society has to draw the line between allowable
conduct on the one hand, and insanityor crime on the other.
That is why you have criminal courts and civil courts,
because you cannot do as you like with your neighbour's
property, since he can get recourse in the Civil Courts
and you cannot commit an act where it endangers life,
limb and property because the society itself imposes sanc-
tions.

I want to say this, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Some people
are talking as if today is the beginningof creation. We have
a country and we have a Constitution, We have laws, we
have police forces, and we are not going to invent police
forces any more than we are going to invent crimes or
criminals or sadists. We have them in the society. If any-
body goes to gaol, it is because he has been going to goal
for a long time and because we have been vigilant enough
to send him to gaol; but we have a country and this is the
meaning of having a country. Let us get this thing in the
right perspective. It is not a question of independence for
anybody or that kind of nonsense spread by disloyal
Barbadians writing that we want a dictatorship established.
Some gentleman wrote an article blaming the Government
for tapping people's telephones. I had the greatest authority
in the Commonwealth to come and investigate this allega-
tion, because I was shocked and surprised. I have to be
careful how I describe the highest authority, but it was
someone who would be familiar with this kind of investiga-
tion. I wrote three letters to the gentleman saying that we
were surprised and we assured him that we would call in
the Manager of the Telephone Company. We did all that, and
the same gentleman who accuses me and the Government of
wanting to establish a dictatorship because we saywe want
independence for Barbados has not had the decency to re-
ply, and he is the same gentleman who deliberately mis-
represented the proceedings of this House in today's paper
by saying we are trying to keep somebody out that we only
had three meetings and there are two more to go. We pro-
tected that hon. member from the folly :nd ignorance of his
own ways by deliberately calling meetings of the House.


Mr. Deputy Speaker, I knew the time of this meeting
three months ago, and I say now that we have a proper
Cabinet, because all my Ministers had some kind of inti-
mation; but they are loyal people and they are people who
are trustworthy. I am sure that untilyougot the notice, al-
though you belong to this Party, neither you nor His
Honour the Speaker had any intimation thatthis debate was
going to take place today. According to our Standing Orders,
you have three months for a measure to remain on the
Order Paper, and this Government which they accuse of
being a dictatorship deliberately summoned five meetings
to make sure that the Leader of the Barbados Labour Party
would be, God willing, here today. God did not so will, and
you cannot blame us for the Almighty striking somebody
down. That is why I say I am an angry man. The Leader
of the House summoned five consecutive meetings, and if
those in politics credited us with any decency at all, they
would realise that we were trying to save the hon. member
from himself. That has gained us nothing. Some are des-
perate because we will hear their political death rattle
before this debate is finished, I am very angry today
when you can get a newspaper in this island to which the
Government pays subscriptions and gives advertisements
deliberately mis-representing the proceedings of the
House, when the Minister who is Leader of the House brought
members out and we even had an abortive meeting to make
sure that the hon. member would be here today. The Al-
mighty has taken care of him, not us; and if I had the
assurance that he would not waste the time of this House
with his rhetorical meanderings and it was possible for
him to come out and vote, I would ask the Leader of the
House to adjourn the House after the debate has finished
if I had the assurance that he could come inhispyjamas,
because we want them to vote, and posterity would judge
them. They are the most politically inept bunch that I have
had to deal with.

I remember there was a book written called "The
Five Graves to Cairo" and the hero was a gentleman
by the name of Rommel; his counterpart is on my right.
We set four traps for the people on that side for their
political extinction and they did not know it. I may be
ingenuous in so far as trusting people, but I am not in-
genuous when it comes to Political Science. The greatest
amount of abuse has been heaped on the heads of this
Government. I know well, Sir, that you have given me a
certain amount of latitude, but certain principles have
to be enunciated. People of this country try to set white
people against black people. Some members over there
would rally members of European descent in this popu-
lation and tell them that Barrow intends to do so-and-so.
They do not have enough sense to ask what is his inten-
tion. Never has anybody in this political party expressed
or implied any intention that this Government or this
country should proceed along anything different from
an orderly path to independence. The constitution which
we are operating now is the type of constitution which we
will be operating after independence, becausewhen the Hon.
Attorney General who was then Minister without Port-
flolo and the Acting Attorney General went to England, I
rented a house for them because I did not intend that
they should leave London until they got the Independence
Constitution. I told them that they could park themselves
there and go down to the Colonial Office; and this is the
Constitution that they brought back.
4.10 p.m.

I have here the Statutory Instruments of 1964, No. 491
Caribbean and North Atlantic Territories, the Barbados
(Letters Patent Consolidation) Order 1964, made at the
Court at Buckingham Palace, the 26th day of March, 1964.
Present, the Queen's Most Excellent Majesty in Council.

"Her Majesty, by virtue and in exercise of the powers
conferred upon Her by the West Indies Act 1962 (a) and
of all other powers enabling Her inthat behalf, is pleased,
by and with the adviceof Her PrivyCouncil, to order, and
it is hereby ordered as follows:-" Listen to this.

"1. -(1) This Order may be cited as the Barbados
(Letter Patent Consolidation) Order 1964."


~I~













I had to argue with the Colonial Office about this
title. I did not want it. They said to let it remain for the
sake of speed,

I have an understanding from the Secretary of State
for the Colonies and the Hon. Leader of the Opposition
knows about that. When the West Indies Dissolution Act
was proposed, I cabled Mr. Reginald Maudling and told
him that I have read section so-and-so of the Bill con-
taining provisions which could not apply to the Island of
Barbados. They have these things devised for Mr. Gairy
and some of these recalcitrant Ministers. This is how
these countries are run when they are Colonies and they
want a blind. I said to Mr. Reginald Maudling that I wanted
him to understand that these provisions cannot be extended
to apply to Barbados and I got back the reply from him
saying that these provisions were not intended for Bar-
bados.

We have a Constitution and on the 5th May, 1964, the
Constitution was read out to the General Assembly and it
was then pointed out in the Senate, in the Other Place,
by His Excellency the Governor of Barbados, I will show
you how dishonest some people can be, When Senator
Vaughan and Mr. Jacobs were hammering out the Consti-
tution of Barbados "and e'en the ranks of Tuscany could
scarce forbear to cheer", when we finished that exercise,
the stage was set for the independence of Barbados,

That, Sir, is in the Speech from the Throne on the 5th
May, 1964, when the new and final Constitution for this
Island was implemented. We departed from the Other
Place and we came to the lesser regions down here in
the Commons. We left the lofty heights of Mount Olympus
and descended into the arena. This is where the battles are
fought and will continue to be fought.

As far as I remember, my colleague, the hon, junior
member for the parish of St. John who is on my right, as
is his wont got up and moved a Resolution on the Address
from the Throne. Speeches were made subsequentlyonthat
motion. There are some people whom you cannot stop
from speaking even if they have nothing to say. I am
speaking from memory and I cannot name all the hon,
members who spoke on that Resolution, but today is one
day in the history of this Parliament when all the members
are present.

Surely, if the hon. junior member for St. John moves
a Resolution thanking His Excellency for his Speech from
the Throne, the Hon. Leader of the Opposition has as his
right to comment on anything in the Speechfrom the Throne.
When Her Majesty the Queen goes to Jamaica, she may
make a Speech from the Throne. The Governor General is
only standing in her shoes. Whether the Speech is made
by the Governor General of Jamaica or whether it is made
by Her Majesty the Queen, a Speech from the Throne is an
enunciation of the Government's policy and it usually re-
views the Government's achievements. If you go through
every Speech which was given from the Throne since this
Government came into power, you will see that we never
made a pronouncement which we never intended to keep. A
Speech from the Throne is a serious matter. It is not a
pious expression of peace and goodwill; it is delivered so
that the people would know what they can expect.

Her Majesty the Queen, when she comes here, will not
be delivering a Speech from the Throne. Her Majesty will
not be saying anything on policy, but she will be presenting
a new Coat of Arms to this Island. It will hot be the Coat
of Arms of the two animals or sea horses which you see:
we are going to have something which represents Barbados,
and Her Majesty will present the Speaker of the House and
the President of the Other Place with a facsimile of the
Coat of Arms which will adorn the space above Your
Honour's head, Her Majesty will not be making a Speech
from the Throne: Her Majesty will be doing so in Jamaica,

As I have said, the Speech was made on the 5th May,
1964, setting out broadly the Letters Patent of1964 and the
Royal Instructions to the Cabinet which forms part of our
Constitution. I do not see, if people are responsible, why


they should challenge certain conventions. You should only
challenge when it is necessary. That is a matter which I am
prepared to discuss with the Opposition when they come
like sensible people and talk the matter over with us.

The Hon. Leader of the Opposition knows how I feel
about Federation. I digress to saythis. The policy enuncia-
ted by the Hon. Leader of the Opposition for the indepen-
dence of people is going to be contingent on his views on the
matter that his boys would lose some money.

Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I rise on a
point of order. I do not want to cross the Hon. Premier but
I have never at any time talked of any boys.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: The difference might have crept
in because "gentlemen" might have been used instead of
"boys".
4,20 p.m.

Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Two hon. members are on
their feet,

Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I had no inten-
tion of interrupting the hon. member at all during this
exercise, but I have never told the Hon. Premier that the
boys said that they would lose some money. I have never
said anything of the sort, That would not come from me.

Hon, E. W. BARROW: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I think
the disagreement between the hon. member and myself
is not whether he had informed me that certain vested
interests in Bridgetown would lose money. If I did not pur-
sue this method .. I called them boys ......

Mr. MOTTLEY: On a point of order, Whether I called
them boys or gentlemen, Ihave passed that stage. The point
which I am really making is that I have never said to the
Premier anything about anybody losing money.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Well, I will ask him if they feel
they will lose money.

Mr, DEPUTY SPEAKER: There will not be any ex-
changes in here,

Hon, E. W. BARROW: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Ileft Sher-
bourne getting back to what I was saying and recounted
a conversation which I had with Sir Stephen Luke to the
hon, senior member for St. Peter, the hon, senior member
for the City, and the hon. senior member for Christ Church,
The hon. member knows the conversation: I discussed the
whole situation with him. There is a difference in the term-
inology between us, but I am prepared to go ahead. I would
like the Editor of the Daily News to listen to this. This is a
Speech from the Throne which was delivered on the occa-
sion of the Legislative Session for 1964-66,
At this stage, Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER left the Chair
and Mr. SPEAKER took the Chair.
Mr, SPEAKER: I am advised that the honourable and
learned senior member for St. John was addressing the
Chair.

Hon, E. W. BARROW: Your Honour was well advised.
On page two of the ffi cial (;a:ette of the 5th May, 1964,
His Excellency the Governor said this in his Speech from
the Throne:-

"The main constitutional provisions for Barbados are
contained in the Order in Council and the local legislation to
which I referred earlier. There are, however, certain
conventions which are related to those constitutional pro-
visions and I now wish to restate briefly the more impor-
tant of these conventions .,,,.. "

These are the main provisions. The post of Attorney
General to be a Ministerial post instead of a Civil Service
post and the establishment of a post of Director of Public
Prosecutions and the abolition of the post of Solicitor
General.












When I spoke about people going to gaol, I have no
authority to advise the Solicitor General to prosecute or
not to prosecute anybody. That is all enshrined in the
Constitution of this Island. I have no more power to do
that than I have the power to advise the people on the other
side not to commit any crime.

The other provisions are:-

"The abolition of the Executive Committee and the
transfer of the powers and functions of the Executive Com-
mittee and the Governor-in-Executive Committee entirely
to the Cabinet;

The transfer of authority in respect of the management
of Government finances from the Governor-in-Executive
Committee to the Cabinet and the Minister of Finance,"

Nobody here, not even the Hon. Leader of the Opposi-
tion, coull claim that at any time in the history of the Is-
land we had a full system of responsibility. I remember,
Sir, that my stationery vote is so zealously guarded that I
had to come for a vote for $27,00 for stationery, paper
clips, paper and things of that sort, whereas the Chief
Minister of Montserrat, a kingdom of about 20 square
miles with an annual revenue of $480,000, would not have
to do that. The revenue of one island is something like
$14 million and the Chief Minister collects half a million
and spends one and a half million. We, in this island,
collect $35 million and save some of that for building
schools and things of that sort. I have to face the criticisms
of the other side for running out of blotting paper and
stationery, whereas Mr. Bramble can sign a warrant for
$250,000 on any day of the week without going to the Legis-
lature at all. So can Mr. Le Blanc and Mr. Southwell.
Therefore, when Mr. Gairy put a refrigerator inhis office,
he did not have to wait on the decision of the Legislature
because that is the system which they have instituted,

When you had constitutional advancement in these
islands, the British Treasury delegated to those people the
right to do these things without any reference to the Legis-
lature. When I suggested that you should write into the
Constitution that you should not do this or that, the Hon.
Leader of the Opposition knows that there are people who
threw up their hands in horror.
4.30 p.m.

When they have three meetings of the Legislature in
the course of a year, that is supposed to be an Olympic
record for the Legislature because the only meeting held
usually is the opening of Parliament, and after that the
Ministers would do what the hon. senior member for St.
Peter would describe as "go throughtheeddoes". This is
how these Governments are run and this is what they want
us to do. Do you think they are going to accept any dicta-
torship by Barbados? That is whylwoke up one morning and
told the Hon. Minister of Education on my left that they
nearly had us, because in that Constitution to which we
contributed foolishly, relieving the British Government of
their responsibility, we had the good sense of saying that
the British Government must make a declaration as to the
financial support for the grant-aided territories whichup to
now they have not done. Moreover Ihavedecided and I hope
members on the other side would subscribe, to put up a
prospectus for $1 million in Government debentures next
week, because I do not believe in increasing our burden
overseas. Barbadians have to do some savings and contri-
bute to the economy. Only when Ihave exhausted the accu-
mulated capital in this country will I go outside, because
when we have to pay interest and so on to people outside,
that money does not circulate.

Mr. Speaker, I have not invested one single penny of
Barbados money in any foreign country, However, to return
to my original thesis, under the Constitution that they are
so much in favour of, and noneofthe islands appears to be
interested in at the present moment the Minister of
Development and Finance in Barbados has a Development
Programme entailing an annual expenditure on Capital
Account alone of more than the accumulated capital of all
these territories put together with the exceptionofAntigua,
an expenditure involving $13 million per year in our Four


Year Development Programme, and whereas I sit down and
read the Financial Times and send cables to the Crown
Agents, brokers and other people in the other money
markets timing the loans to finance the programme by
various devices, all legal, and paying low rates of interest
from the Joint Consolidated Fund, under the Federal Con-
stitution we would be in the ignominious position of asking
Mr. Bradshaw or Mr. Bramble whether we could raise
a loan: and they would treat us, if past experience is any
indication, in precisely the same way that Mr. Bird was
treated then. Mr. Bird had to go several times to the Fed-
eral Capital to get his Estimates approved. I was naive
because I credited people with more integrity which in
politics you should never do and with more good inten-
tions than I should. You should have everything sewn up
tightly so that nobody would be able to take advantage of the
people of this Island, because you never know whom you
are going to dealwith, and if youhave written aConstitution,
you have to make sure in that written Constitution that
your interest is safeguarded.

Mr. Speaker, we are not at any stage in our history
going to commit any voluntary. act of political suicide, and
we very nearly did, because as I said before, if the Federal
Minister of Finance or the Committee that they appointed
said that Montserrat had been in debt all these years, and
that Barbados should not spend all this money at all and
that the work we are doing on the Financial Building, the
East Coast Road, School buildings like the new one in St.
Joseph which Her Majesty will open and which rejoices in
same name as Her Majesty -- all these things should be
drawn to a dramatic close overnight by a Constitution which
I sat down inadvertently or through too much goodwill and
agreed to; but when I saw the behaviour, I knew what was
happening. You could get a situation in that kind of set-up
that with the strongest possible Government elected in
Barbados with twenty-four seats out of twenty-four, you
would find it increasingly difficult to carry on and run this
country.

They talk about Independence within a Federation; this
is the kind of Independence which did not dawn on me until
I woke up in a night-mare at 3 o'clock in the morning and
found myself covered in perspiration, because several
activities which were going on on the periphery were
beginning to bother me in the back of my mind, and I was
watching the behaviour of certain people, and I tried to
analyse why it was that certain people were so dead set
on certain things. I looked at the Federal Constitution
until about 1 o'clock that morning in my office, went home,
made a cup of tea and went to bed and woke up in cold
sweats, Mr. Bird has all the seats becausethe people gave
him all. "The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away; Blessed
be the name of the Lord". Some of them over there will get
their seats taken away: so be it. No one has a claim to
political immortality; there are no political immortals
under our Constitution. You cannot give yourself immortal-
ity. As a matter of fact, I would like to say to the Editor
of that Newspaper that anybody who made himself Pre-
sident of a country for his life time was automatically
signing his death warrant, because that is the only way
you could remove him. Only an inept person would make
himself President for life, and this is what I told Dr.
Williams when Duvalier was made President of Haiti. If
a man makes himself President for life, you cannot get
rid of him the constitutional way, but you can get rid of
him by assassination. Some on the other side are so des-
perate now that although they know the Constitution of Bar-
bados, they cannot wait until elections; they want to get
rid of us by assassination. It is pitiable, sordid and regret-
table,
4.40 p.m.

I would not like to see the day when we have a single
Party being returned by the people of this Island. Of
course, I do not want to discourage you from giving us
twenty-two seats, but I ask parties to make sure of their
candidates and do not say that some member of the Gov-
ernment Party does not want two parties in the House. I
say that the day you have twenty-two or twenty-four seats
in a Legislature of this kind, you are going to have confusion
from inside your own Party, and that is worse than what you
have now with all the nonsense that you have on the other
side.


I ~












This pronouncement was made with the sole object of
doing discredit, not to me, but to the country. They planned
that if that kind of discredit gets around, the country would
never be able to get any investment. They would be able
to scare away capital, and there would be a scarcity of
capital in the Island and nobody would invest in Barbados.
Then those persons would go and tell the people how hard
it is with us, we cannot raise moneyin London because the
country is not in a good position.

There is nobody who has a better record of raising
money than we. The last loan which we negotiated in
London, which was $6.25 million, was oversubscribed 32
times in 90 seconds. Therefore, Sir, they cannot criticise
the Government for lack of timing or of financial ineptitude
or financial dishonesty. Therefore, their main objective
now is to go outside and wrAtJrticl.eli the /on treald .tar
and in the Trnidad OGardi aJbt ner in Barbados, be-
cause the people in Barbados never had any dishonesty. It
would be torn to bits by the people.

I am going on now to the.Hon, Kenneth Jones. I was
even criticised for going to his funeral. He was the person
responsible for the proposal of a Tropical Meteorological
Institution in these parts, not only here but in the United
States. I am very serious about this, Great Britain was at
war and people were fighting for survival. When Great
Britain had shut the door of mercy to mankind by the
Commonwealth Immigration Act which restricts the quota
to 7,000 immigrants and then no one country is entitled
to 159o there were 5,000 illegal immigrants inside the
United Kingdom.

How do they apply this legislation? They apply it
against Commonwealth countries and in favour of the Euro-
pean countries; and whether they like itor not, I will say
again that we have a lot to thank the United States for and
I do not care if President L. B. Johnson comes from Texas
or Montgomery, he has done more for the people of the
West indies by his new immigration policythan the Socia-
list Government of the United Kingdom.

S I am deadly serious on this. I challenge anybody to
say that Mr. Amery, whose father was a Proconsul,
a Cabinet Minister, killed anybody. He did not kill anybody,
He got up and spoke against his country when his country
was at war and fighting for its survival. He spoke in favour
of the enemy the people outside against the people inside
of this country and despite the fact that his father was a
Cabinet Minister and a member of the Government, he was
hanged for treason. I want everybody to hear me. I want
to tell you of their dealings with people who aretraitors to
their country and who are prepared to vilify, slander and
attack everything, even if it means pulling down their
country and causing starvation.

Let us remember a gentleman called Mr. William
Joyce, A lot of people contributed to his delinquency in the
same way that certain people who write in certain newspa-
pers have contributed to the delinquencyof those newspapers
because they give currency to threats being published. All
Mr. William Joyce did was before the war was over, He
did not kill anybody; he did not commit any of the offences
mentioned in the Offences against the Persons Act that are
prescribed in our law. He did not commit any malicious
injury to property. He did not steal secrets and give
them to anyone. He did precisely what the people on the
other side have done. He attacked the Government, not
justifiably, when the Government and the people were
fighting for their survival. We talk of psychological injuries
that have been done to our young people by instilling in them
a sense of inferiority. There are people in this House who
have said they would never employ black man before
they employ a white man. People who are Editors in this
country would not invite a black man to their house unless
they wantto sellsome idea to him. Therefore, let us under-
stand the various heads of survival. You have survival of
being able to fight against the invading hordes of Nazi
Germany or any agressor. You have survival of the
human personality. You have economic survival. These
are very important factors in human existence. These are
very important survivals.
4,50 p.m.


They are not the people who are in need of emancipa-
tion; they are prisoners in chains. They are the people
who respond only to the stimulus of money and they do not
care what the stimulus of money will do. There is no
political party outside of our Party in Barbados which has
a clearly defined ideology and perspective for the people of
this island, and that is why they are against it. Mr.
William Joyce did not commit any of the crimes whichare
easily identified: he did to a lesser degree what people on
the other side have done, and this means inside and outside.
Mr. William Joyce merely got on the air and said for
example that three Canadian Nationalships were torpedoed.
Robert Amery made a mistake according to the laws of
the land: when his countrywas at War he allied with peo-
ple in the opposite camp. With the Americans there was a
man called Benedict Arnold: his case was slightly different
because it was believed that he sold information. William
Joyce and Robert Amery, who spoke against their country,
were dealt with: but they did not speak as violently against
their country as the people on the other side had done.

The theory that you cannot bring seditious actions
against people because it was the black people who were
shot down -- well, in this emancipated day, you did not
charge people with sedition. The Director of Public Pros-
ecutions did not charge them, I would like to send them to
England and the United States of America. The great de-
mocracies could draw up an indictment against these people
and place them in the hands of the Attorney General of the
United States of America and in the hands of the Director
of Public Prosecutions in England, and they would realise
that they could not get awaywiththethings against those
counties as they got awaywith here, I say if the same princi-
ples which were invoked in the trial of William Joyce and
Robert Amery were invoked against them, the positionwould
have been different,

Since we are in this country we have to pay prices for
everything. They have tried to prevent the people of the
Caribbean from emerging into the light so that they who
have striven so hard to get into the light I want to get
this record straight may remain there. I will not accuse
anybody because it is for the Director of Public Prosecu-
tions to do that ,,,, We have had information and we have
passed it on to the proper authorities. Immediately when
information is given to us, we say that this is not a matter
for us: it is a matter for the Commissioner of Police and
the Director of Public Prosecutions, When you start probing
you will find that everybody is scratching everybody else's
back: but if they were in the United Kingdom or in the
United States of America carrying out the same kind of
conduct which has been carried out in this country during
the past three months, they would have felt the true weight
of democratic Government, Those are the paradoxes of
history.

The democracies are merely asking for the same kind
of justice that was meted out to William Joyce and Robert
Amery. I am saying that these people should have been
judged by the same standards. Whatever judgment was pro-
nounced on those people should be pronounced on the people
here. We will pay their passages and send them out. There
is no greater traitor than one who, in peace-time, will
sell his country for certain considerations,
5.00 p,m.

I have no more to say; but Isaid it, Sir, because I have
been in this House since 1951 and with the exception of
about three members over there, I know them well. At one
time you sat next to me, and you know I used to write out
three sentences in advance when the former Premier of the
Island was talking. I knew exactly what he was going to say,
and you know we used to run our little sweepstake on this
side of the Table as to the precise time at which a great
big row would come up, and it took a long time before hon.
members found out my secret, because just before he told
a lie on another member of the House, he used to stand up
on his left ankle and I used to watch under the tabletand if
you see him today or anytime long maybe survive-and
heis addressing youaqdyouseehimturnthat left leg and
bend his toe toward the other foot, you know you have to












deal with a great deal of suspicion with the next sentence
that comes out of this mouth. That is only a digression be-
cause in the course of this debate it might get very mono-
tonous, and we have to have these little parliamentary
digressions. I will, however, return to my main proposition.

You will remember that I was dealing with pages 39
and 40, paragraphs 77to 81 and Isaid inparagraph 81 that
the West Indies Federation floundered after three fruitless
years,and the Malaysia Federation, established as recently
as September 1963, has had its communal difficulties and
is held to gether only by the threat of Indonesian aggression.
I further went on to say that since no such threat or induce-
ment exists in the Eastern Caribbean, any movement
towards integration of the people of the area must spring
not only from a natural desire for independence but pri-
marily from a reasonable expectation, if not a certainty,
of economic advantage. If you can get Independence and
economic advantage without having a constitutional super-
structure imposed upon you, there is absolutely no induce-
ment and no valid reason why a country like Barbados
should surrender to the Lesser Antilles, that is, the less
politically astute and experienced politicians of the Lesser
Antilles, and I make no apology for saying it, because even
the worst on the other side of the Table, with possibly one
exception, is better thanthe best that they have in many of
these islands when it comes to political experience, and as
I look around, not ten per cent of them over there have any
experience in Government; the kind of Government we op-
erate in Barbados, no politician in the Windward and Lee-
ward Islands has any experience in. Not one of these
Governments has ever raised a loan for any Development
Programme; and yet they write in a Federal Consitution
that we have to get approval and that their loans wile be
backed up by out money, but when we want to borrow
money we would have to ask their permission. Thatis why
I woke up in cold sweats, because I felt that I had almost
sold out the people of Barbados, and now I am apologising
for my misdeeds. And if I say that I do not consider that
this Government should engage inthese federal discussions
until after independence, I am merely guaranteeing the in-
dependence of the people of Barbados, because we have no
guarantee of the independence of the people of Barbados if
we go into a Federation first. It is as simple as that, and it
took me a long time to realise it.


When some people accuse me of not wanting a Federa-
tion because I cannot be Federal Prime Minister, I would
say that the only discussion I have ever had on the ques-
tion of Federal Prime Minister was way back in 1962-63
with certain people in Great Britain, and I told them I was
not interested. They said if I was not interested, the British
Government was not interested. I have never had any dis-
cussion with anybody in Barbados about going to the Federal
Government. Neither of my Ministers has told me he
wanted to go the Federal Government. Some of them may
have nourished certain ambitions intheir breast, but it cer-
tainly has not been disclosed to me, neither have I given
the matter the slightest thought except when I got a shock
when a British Official told me that one of them would be
interested. Maybe he was not in a position of responsibility;
so he could express his opinion. But I know what Mr.
Duncan Sandys told me and I have said this before and I
have put it in black and white. Shortly after I published this,
he wrote me a letter not protesting about that, but telling
me tha' his daughter got married.


You will remember that I read out where the Governor
wrote to the Secretary of State and told him that the pros-
pects of Federation were getting exceedingly dim unless
the British Government came out and made certain pro-
nouncements. From then up to now nothing has been done.
You will remember that I quoted, I think on page 10 -
where we wrote in paragraph 23 that no reply was received
from the Secretary of State after the meeting in September
1963, and as a result of this silence, the Chairman of the
Regional Council who is the Governor of Barbados indica-
ted to the Secretary of State that there was mounting frus-
tration and criticism at the dealay which, if allowed to


continue, could wreck anyhope of ever forming a Federation.
This is what the Governor said in 1964, and this is nearly
24 months later because we are in 1966.

There are $7 million grant-in-aid which theyhave to
dispense, which means that the whole of our budget surplus
would be taken up, and the people in those islands would
mostly be buying Blue Bomber Soap, Velvo Kris and Mello-
Kreem what I call the margarine lobby. This is whatthe
campaign is being fought on now. I know that the Oil and
Fats Agreement is fought on the margarine lobby in Bar-
bados. They want to make independence of the people of
Barbados a by-product of edible oil The people's salvation
has got to be a by-product of an individual's edible oil and
his profit and loss. The gentleman once said that he used
to give a certain politician money, but it was getting too
expensive.

It was therefore, Sir, between the meeting of Septem-
ber, 1963 and the Governor's SOS that the Secretary of
State spoke to me in the Governor General's house in East
Africa, and I am going to say something now. I hate to have
Federal Constitution.
5.10 p.m.

I told him that we are ready as soon as he was ready
to make a pronouncement about the quantum which the
British Government was prepared to give. I was told later
in the same year, that the British Government was not
prepared to put the Federation on its feet. They could not
be serious.

I want to say this. It is one thing to be critical of
politicians in the small areas and about the way they func-
tion: but these are systems which were setup by Her Ma-
jesty's Government when they used to run their affairs and
nobody know what they did. These Ministers have inherited.
problems and worries, and the islands were in a condition
where all the services and institutions were dilapidated and
run-down. These are countries which have been exploited
until the last drop of blood has been squeezed out of them,
and under these circumstances, you cannot be surprised
if the British Government wants to palm off these islands
and wants others to take them on.
When they discovered that Mr. Bird was getting more
and more disinterested in the Federal Exercise, they sent
down a Mr. Crum Ewing and I challenge anybody to say
that is not true. Ask the hon. junior member for Christ
Church who is sitting over on the other side. The Leader
of the Opposition is absent, but he may have had some
contact with the hon. junior member for Christ Church
other than through the Leader of the Opposition. The hon.
member is the Deputy Leader of the Opposition.
Mr. Norton came to Barbados and Mr. Crum Ewing
went to Antigua. I am not going to any rumour. I am the
person who notified Mr. Bird of his coming. I can go on and
say something else. Do not let anybody over on the other
side think that I am throwing bricks at anyone, I also pro-
tested to our people who are responsible for security. I
told them that the Government is concerned about any
disruptive force coming to the Island whether it comes
from Communist sources, Fascist sources or Conservative
sources. We are concerned over anything detrimental to
the State whether it is inspired byCommunismor Conser-
vatism. I called names. That is how the people's fate is
being decided.
They sent him to Antigua because Mr. Bird had lost
interest. He went to members of the other political party
because he knew that all of them were antagonistic to the
Government, and he said to them that the Conservative
Party has authorized him to make this initial contribution
of 10,000 to anypoliticalpartythatwas opposed to Govern-
ment A similar offer was made in Barbados. He left Antigua
after being presented to the likely candidates. These men
were being paid at the expense of the Conservative Party
to come downhere to do that. Ido not mean the Conservative
Party here; I mean the Conservative Party in Great Britain.
Mr. GODDARD: Sir, I rise on a point of order. Mr.
Speaker, my name has been called as knowing something












of Mr. Norton who came here to the Conservatives and,
apparently, offering something to the Party.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: I did not say that he offered it
to anybody here.

Mr. GODDARD: I know nothing of any money being
offered to our Party. Our Party has a membership. There
are no outside hands doing anything for our Party nor has
there been any offer made to our Party.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: I thank the hon. member for his
assurance. I have never at any stage suggested that Mr.
Norton offered the hon. junior member for Christ Church
10,000, but I may say that Mr. Norton came here for the
same purpose for which Mr. Crum Ewing went in Antigua,
and I said that I deplored the fact that they should use
the Colonial Officeto send people who are not members of
Parliament down to these parts, but members of their
group in Government to induce revolution just because the
Governments of Antigua and Barbados would not assume
the responsibility to do what the members of British Gov-
ernment wanted them to do,

I say thatMr. Nortonwas brought into the debate be-
cause of what I knew of Mr. Crum Ewing. I knew nothing of
the mission that he was aboutthen. Had I known of the mis-
sion he was sent down here to do, he would have been
asked to leave the country forthwith. You cannot have people
coming from outside to disrupt the Island,
5.20 p.m.

We made the mistake all the time of thinking that
Communism is the threat, but Conservatism is as much a
threat to the living standards of the working-class man as
Communism. I find it difficult when people who have been
deprived of their manhood, like the African people, want to
be associated with the philosophy of Conservatism. I have
already cited British Guiana and there is a certain group
in this country who are nothing at all. We are not changing
our laws, but we will invoke them. This group which is
under the leadership of Mr. C. L. R. James is proposing
to have a disruption in the West Indies in 1966 and they are
people in Barbados who are in this group. Whether it is
Marxism, Nazism, Communism or anything else, we do not
have to look to anybody for our philosophy. Whatever be
the colour of the people in Barbados, we should be able to
produce our own philosophy and our own forward thinking,
We have to give a sense of direction for the people of the
West Indies. You have people like Dr. Williams and what-
ever you may say about him, what would they do in Trini-
dad without Dr. Williams?

What is the position of British Guiana without Mr.
Burnham? We are not taking instructions from anybody
except from the people of Barbados. We are propagating
our own political dynamics in this country. This matter is
not a dissertation onpoliticalthought in the 20th century,
but this is an important debate and we must know what we
are standing for. We are supposed to say we believe in
God, but belief in the people is belief in God; that is what I
would say. The people of wealth can use their influence and
their money in order to buy whatever they want. They can
even buy the people; they can buy allegiance. We have to
evolve in this area a philosophy which is indigenous to the
West Indies. As to the Constitutional arrangements which
Her Majesty's Government was bent upon, this Government
came to the conclusion that they were not likely to enure
to the benefitof the people of the country whom we repre-
sent. Belonging to a West Indian Nation, you cannot be a
Russian. You have to be a Trinidadian, Vincentian, St.
Lucian or Montserratian or a combination of allof them or
of some of them. You cannot be a West Indian unless you
are a Barbadian first, and a Barbadian cannot be a West
Indian otherwise, because you cannot be a West Indian
in a vacuum.

Mr. Speaker, I am a very frankperson. There are lts
of people who could give you an analogy of things. A lot of
people say that there is no such thing as Judaism. If there
had not been a Jewish race, how is it that I could pick out


.Y


every Jew who travelled in a bus with me? How can you
pick out persons who are Jews on a bus if there was no
Jewish race? The Jews are a very proud race and I would
say that it is the Jews who have contributed probably more
to the people of Barbados than perhaps the people who are
supposed to be presiding overourdestinies.That is what I
would say.
5.30 p.m.

The people were told by the British Government way
back in 1948 that the country could not support a population
greater than 600,000, that it would not be economically
viable. Thank God there are 2 1/2 millionpeople in Israel.
They have come from the four corners of the earth and
they were told they could not have a nation. Mr, Ernest
Bevin as Foreign Minister was bitterly opposed to the idea
of Israel being established. He wanted to go back on the
Balfour Declaration which had been made 25 years or so
before which gave the undertaking to theJewishpeople that
they would have a nation, As far as I know, Sir, apart from
London, Manchester, Birmingham and a few benighted
places like that, for us as distinct from the Israeli, we will
not be gathering from the four corners of the earth because
of persecution. As a matter of fact, if anybody has been
deprived and persecuted, it has been the people who have
remained at home and the unfortunate ones who have been
under British tutelage who refer in the newspaper to their
Mother Country: it is not my Mother Country. Ihave the
profoundest respect for the country where Ihadpartof my
education, and for the good things init; but the point is that
this is the parting of the ways, and when you come to the
parting of the ways, you should be able to continue in cor-
respondence without any acrimony, which I hope is what we
will do here in Barbados,

I am not going to go into a long recital of all that has
not been done in these territories, which is the reason for
the present impasse. Colonialism is the reason for the
present impasse in West Indian affairs, and we cannot af-
ford to wait. I am not going into a recital of what the Bri-
tish have done and what they have not done. Their relation
with our people has not been a happy association. Ithas
been a very unhappy association, and it is regrettable that
we will have some of the downtrodden, who feel that they
are now slightly privileged, fighting on the side of the
people who perpetrate all these acts of inhumanity against
our people. What Dr. Williams has written in his book
called "Capitalism and Slavery" is not a matter of interest
now, but you must know your history, That is why a former
Minister can get up ina crowd inpublic and say that when I
go to a Conference and I wanttotell the Secretary of State
to go to hell or to know his place, I tell him so, because I
know the premises, and the positionofstrengthfromwhich
I am speaking is not a position of feeling inferior in any
way. They are the people who should feel inferior, because
they are the people who have broken every single law of
morality as far as relationship with us is concerned; but
I am not drawing up an indictment against the present
British Government or any British Government. This isa
matter of history, and this is all the more reason why we
should stand on our own feet, because people are not going
to respect you, Sir, if despite the fact that you are finan-
cially independent, you still want to be deemed to bea
second class citizen of another country,

I was reciting, Sir, from the Preamble to the Resolu-
tion whichwe are supposed to be debating. This is a moment
in our history of which we should all be proud instead d
being ashamed. If I have any sense of shame, it is shame
to know that in my country there still exists an element --
that despite all we have gone through we still have people
who are so degrading, and people who are so tantalised by
the trappings of colonialism. I do not want my children to
grow up as second class citizens, and I do not want the
children of any of the ladies who work for me in my house
assisting us in the discharge of our daily duties, or the
man who works in the garden, or the man who drives the
proverbial omnibus to grow up with any sense of inferiority
to any person. We will preserve law and order. Indepen-
dence does not mean that you become disrespectfulto any-
one provided he respects you; and I know that Barbadians












have enough good sense: they have a reputation for being
polite and courteous to people, and the fact that we have
independence would not mean that we are animals cut loose
and starting to run around in circles, becausewe have been
operating an independent constitution all these years.

Compare our situation, Mr. Speaker, with the coun-
tries which have emerged in Asia and Africa. I said just now
that the true test of democracy is the right to vote. Great
Britain is now following Barbados in reducing the voting
age to 18 years. Australia has it; Dr. Jagan asked for it
and Jamaica is now asking for it. We have constitutional
arrangements in this countrywhich are more advanced
than the constitutional arrangements between the State and
the individual than exist in the United Kingdom or in all the
other independent countries, because if countries are now
following us into recognizing that a man of 18 years of age
in these modern days is probably more astute politically
and more capable of making decisions than his grandfather
who did not go to school at all- and this is what it amounts
to in this community because we recognized these facts
long before the United Kingdom -- constitutionally we are
in advance of the United Kingdom. Constitutionally Barba-
dos had a political Attorney General running for a seat, and
a Solicitor General. No other West Indian territory had a
political Attorney General who was a member of the Legis-
lature. We controlled our Colonial Treasurer, and money
had to be voted from year to year, and he had to be ap-
pointed by the House because he was the custodian of the
Island's funds.

Mr. Speaker, in the Preamble to the Resolution, we
went on to say that the discussions had proved fruitless,
and we gave reasons. No other Government in the West
Indies has given a reason for anything. The Trinidad Gov-
ernment came out on Monday, 15th January, 1962 and made
a big declaration, but that was not a declaration on a Reso-
lution before the House. It was a party Resolution and it
was handed to the Secretary of State; there was no meeting
of the Legislature. We recited the failure of the United
Kingdom Government to state what financial aid would be
available and I have now dealt with that exhaustively and
will pass on. Then there was the withdrawal of the Gov-
ernments of Grenada and Antigua from the discussions.
Nobody has abused them for withdrawing.
5.40 p.m.

Three and a half years after the Government of Grenada
had withdrawn from the Federal exercises on the pretext of
going into a unitary state with the Islands of Trinidad and
Tobago, they have not succeeded in getting to the position
even to discuss it. I said in the White Paper, Mr. Speaker,
that we discussed the alternatives, we discussed the federal
principle; we discussed unitary status; because we were
saying from 1961 to 1964 that we did not understand why
Grenada should wishto secede. We did not understand if it
was a political device to get rid of Mr. Gairy by his oppo-
nets and I am not a friend of Mr. Gairy either. However,
we have too many Gairys in Barbados: we have too many
flamboyant people. I can tell you a story about Mr. Gairy
which would make it that he would not be able to go on a
political platform again at all.

Mr. Gairy is talking about Federation for Grenada and
Mr. Blaize is talking of unitary status. What conclusion
would you come to? Nobody was anxious to have Mr. Gairy
entering Grenada into a Federation at the time, so Mr.
Gairy lost his seat and Mr. Blaize who was talking of en-
tering his country in unitary status won his seat. Nobody
shed any tears when Mr. Gairy lost his seat.

Let me show you the analogy between the two situa-
tions. Mr. Gairy is going to fight the next election on the
point that Mr. Blaize is not succeeding in getting Unitary
Status with Trinidad and Tobago. Mr. Blaize fought the
last election on the ground thathe wanted unitary status; so
Mr. Gairy passed through Barbados and has said that Fed-
eration is the only salvation. The analogywhich I am trying
to draw is that what is best is not the point of view of the
politicians onthe opposite side; their point of view is what
is the best advice you canusetoget rid of the Government.


It has nothing to do with what is in the best interest of the
people.

The Hon. Leader of the Opposition said this on the
same day that I came from Sherbourne and, as I said I
would consult with the Opposition Leader, I called him into
your office, Mr. Speaker, and we sat there for a long time.
I would not say until the wee hours of the morning, but it
was close to midnight, and I think that we only seceded
when your sherry was exhausted, Oneof myMinisters sit-
ting down on the opposite side, thehon, senior member for
St. Peter andthe Deputy Leader of the Opposition along with
myself sat down and discussed this impasse and I told them
exactly what the situation was withMontserrat. I told them
what Mr. Compton and his Government wanted. They did
not know whether they wanted to join in a unitary state or to
go into a Federation. They were not prepared to say that
they would come into Federation. The Hon. Leader of the
Opposition knows thewhole story. That discussion Sir,
took place in a room of Parliament. Would be very grate-
ful if one of the hon. members who was present would in-
struct you as regards what I said, I do know that before the
meeting ended we had exhausted your sherry,

Mr. SPEAKER: It should never be assumed that my
sherry was exhausted.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: It was only sometime after
twelve o'clock (midnight). The Hon, Leader of the Opposi-
tion did not drink any beer or sherry.

Mr. MOTTLEY: The meeting lasted only until ten
o'clock.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Well, it was only until 9,30
o'clock, I respect his position as Leader of the Opposition
but I do not understand his machiavellian manoeuvres.

Mr, MOTTLEY: Mr, Speaker, I rise on a point of
order, I object to that strongly. The Hon. Premier cannot
refer to me as making machiavellian manoeuvres,

Mr. SPEAKER: The Hon. Leader of the Opposition is
saying that you are referring to him as using machiavell-
ian manoeuvres, under Standing Orders No, 26 (5) it pre-
scribes that it shall be out of order to use offensive and
insulting language about members in the House.

Hon. E. W, BARROW: lam not accusingthe hon. mem-
ber of anything

Mr. SPEAKER: The Hon. Leader of the Opposition is
making objection to being engaged in any machiavellian
affairs. "Chamber's Encycloypaedia defines machiavellian
this way:-


"Machiavelli's evil fame has arisen largely from mis-
apprehension of his purpose, As Bacon wrote, 'He set forth
openly and sincerely what men are wont to do and not what
they ought to do'. He sought to draw from events which he
had experienced, and studied principles of political action
which would preserve the life and maintain the liberty of
the state. His separation of politics from morals was a
process of scientific investigation and must be criticized
from that standpoint. His weakness lies in exaggerated and
one-sided judgements, bred of his tendency to see every-
thing through the spectacles of his cherished convictions,
His low view of human nature is inconsistent with his un-
bounded faith in individual achievement.' "

Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Speaker, you have stated the
statutory interpretation to which Parliament is bound within
the ambit of "Mays". The one whichyou have not mentioned
is the one which is not included and that is the meaning of
the phrase.

Mr. SPEAKER: "May's" has certain words and
phrases prescribed. Others are not yet proscribed. The use


I











of Machiavellian manoeuvres is not yet prescribed, but in
my view the phrase may be regarded as offensive,

Hon. E. W. BARROW: I am trying to remember my-
self the rulingonthe matter. Wherethereis an objection, it
is a matter for which you should find some precedent.
5.50 p.m.

If the hon. member would only say what he finds so
obnoxious about the phrase. These Machiavellian manoeu-
vres were manoeuvres.....

Mr. SPEAKER: It conveys the impression that it is not
a happy expression, even when it is good or respectful.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: If Your Honour wants me to say
that the manoeuvres exhibited bythe hon, member were the
best, that they were respectful and good, it would be im-
possible for me to say that.

Mr. SPEAKER: Perhaps we may rely on the Oxford
English Dictionary to provide us a more suitable word than
the word which was used just now......

Hon. E. W. BARROW: I amquite prepared to withdraw
it, but it would not be doing any good to my conscience to
say that we could......

Mr. SPEAKER: There is the Oxford English Dictionary
available, but the hon. senior member for St. John could
use......

Hon. E. W. BARROW: If the hon. member can tell me
what he understands by the phrase, then I would hasten to
re-assure him that what he said was not my intention. I do
not have to do this. .....

Mr. SPEAKER: The Hon. Leader of the Opposition may
not indulge in any cross talk with the Hon. Premier,

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Your Honour canrefer it to him.

Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Speaker, I have taken objection
to the hon. member's remarks and Your Honour will have
to rule as Speaker.

Mr. SPEAKER: Iwould liketo saythat no shouting af-
fects my judgment. The phrase "Machiavellian man-
oeuvres" has been objected to. Exception has been taken to
that phrase and I may say that the words "Machiavellian
manoeuvres" are words capable of being regarded as of-
fensive, and certainly as uncomplimentary.

Mr. WALCOTT: Churchillian manoeuvres.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: I sincerely hope that your atti-
tude is not conditioned by the behaviour of the hon, mem-
ber on the last occasion. Let us try and get on with the
debate.

Mr. SPEAKER: That is all I want, first and foremost.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: It might possibly be true. You
want me to get on with the debate and do not want me to
use the expression. I have great respect for the hon, mem-
ber on his left, the hon, junior member for the City, Ido
notknowwhat is his understanding of the phrase. Thehon,
member's philosophy is consistent with their philosophy
and their manoeuvres which are acceptable to people all
over the world, but which do not find acceptance with the
people of my persuasion.

Mr. SPEAKER: What does that have to do with the hon.
member?

Hon. E. W. BARROW: It has a lot to do with power
politics at any price. We have to throw certain recognized
canons through the window. Does the hon. member object
to what I said? Does he find it obnoxious?


Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. member cannot reply,

Hon. E. W. BARROW: I am not substituting anything:
it is a questionof what Your Honour's understanding of the
word is. The hon. member never has an opinion because he
consults with the hon. junior member for the City on his
left or with Mr. Bryden. He has not got an interpretation of
the phrase from the hon. junior member for the City yet.
When I bring a Resolution in here he says that he has to
consult his boys. I have used the word because I thought it
was a proper interpretation of what is going on. The hon.
member has not asked me to withdraw the translation but,
as you will see, his advicehas got him confused.I am asking:
is the interpretation all right with the hon. member?

Mr. SPEAKER: I have sent Mr. Clerk for the Encyclo-
paedia to which I will refer.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: It has been suggested that I
should substitute for the words "Machiavellian manoeu-
vres" the words "Churchillian manoeuvres or tactics",

Mr. SPEAKER: Do I understand that the hon. member
has withdrawn the words "Machiavellianmanoeuvres"and
has substituted therefore the words "Churchillian man-
oeuvres"?

Hon. E. W. BARROW: No, Sir, I was invited to sub-
stitute the word "Churchillian" for the words "Machia-
vellian" and he advocated certain things which should be
done.

Mr. WALCOTT: Malthusian manoeuvres.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: I have given my interpretation.
6.00 p.m.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: I understand the hon, member
is not objecting anymore.

Mr. MOTTLEY: Of course I am objecting.

Hon. E. W; BARROW: Then Iwillwait until His Honour
rules.

Mr. SPEAKER: The objection which has beentakenand
submitted to me for consideration is in respect of the
phrase "Machiavellian manoeuvres" to which exception
has been taken by the hon: Leader of the Opposition.
Reference to the shorter Oxford English Dictionary, the
Third Edition, page 182 discloses that "Machiavellain"
means "of, pertaining to, or characteristic of Machiavel-
lain or his alleged principles; preferring expediency to
morality; practising duplicity especially in state-craft;
astute, cunning, intriguing. A follower of Machiavelli; one
who adopts his principles in state-craft or in general
conduct."
Hon. E. W. BARROW: Does the hon. member object
to being described as "astute"?

Mr. MOTTLEY: I still object.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: I will withdraw. Mr. Speaker, I
want to borrowthedictionaryifyoudonot mind. I just
want to satisfy myself.

Mr. SPEAKER: Is the hon. member in doubt?

Hon. E. W. BARROW: I amnot questioning Your
Honour's ability to read correctly.

Mr. SPEAKER: Or even to see without a light of
which I have none tonight

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, I agree with the
hon. member and I unhesitatingly withdraw the word
"Machiavellian", and would like to substitute much more
parliamentary words: "motley manoeuvres", and the same
dictionary tells us that "motley" means "variegated:












chequered; composed of elements of diverse or varied
character". I think that would suit my purpose,

Now we can get down to something more serious,
because he cannot object to his own name. You have to
curse for your money; I have to curse for my people. The
hon. member has been slandering the members of this
Government for the past three months; so nothing he does
in here tonight will surprise or shock me or the general
public, because Iheard his behaviour inthe Lower Green.
( ASIDES) The words of alleged slander werethat a mem-
ber of the Government refused to pay taxes.

Mr. SPEAKER: That has absolutely nothing to do with
the debate.
6.10 p.m.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Is it slanderous to say that
somebody refused to pay their taxes?

Mr. SPEAKER: Will the Hon. and Learned Premier
continue with the debate?

Hon. E. W. BARROW: The stage which we reached
before the hon. member objected to being described as
using Machiavellian manoeuvres, and I withdrew and sub-
stitued "motley manoeuvres" --

Mr. SPEAKER: The Hon. and Learned member for St.
John is aware of Standing Order No. 26 (6) "No member
shall refer to any other Member by name."

Mr. MOTTLEY: That is from the Shorter Oxford dic-
tionary which you invoked, Sir,

Hon. E. W. BARROW: I think we should get on with
the debate. The hon. Leaderof theOppositionis satisfied,
hon. members are satisfied, and I am satisfied because I
have put it more descriptively and he has got my with-
drawal.

I suggested that the hon. member did indulge in cer-
tain manoeuvres which Idid not find palatable from my own
Victorian ideas. He should not get incensed about that. "What
would it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses
his own soul?" The same people in a community like this,
the same people who maybe regarded as political mercen-
aries are people of like background to myself and they are
ready to assassinate their brothers. I only want to serve
notice on all those mercenaries that they will be despised
by the same people whom they are working for. They are
despised more than we are despised; we are respected
and feared.

I have said positively that some people came to the
West Indies to destroy the countries of Barbados and
Antigua. The money was not handed over in Antigua then
because the Conservatives were not impressed with the
personality of the person who was supposed to carry
out the deal. I am talking about the time before the last
meeting of the Council of Chief Ministers, That is why
for the first time in the history of the Government of
Antigua a partywhichknewthat it did not have a chance of
winning the Government submitted three of its candidates
because it knew that by running them against the three
most important Ministers and then withdrawing their can-
didacy, it would mean that the Government could not take
its seat because they would have to hold fresh elections,

Here in Barbados the analogous situation is that people
who belong to particular parties, the same partyto whichthe
Hon. Leader of the Opposition belongs, do not have the
courage to come out in public and make a single declara-
tion a declaration that working members of the commu-
nity should get better wages, a declaration against the
injustices to people; but you find people of no particular
party, people who have not spoken in Parliament before,
being offered 10,000. I am not making fun and the hon.
member knows that it is true, (A VOICE: 10,000 is a lot
of money). The hon. member said that 10,000 is a lot of
money. He should know. (Loud Asides)


There are rules of this House which states that a
member should be heard in silence, and as long as I am
a member of this House, I expect to be heard in silence.

I understand that the former Leader of the House
said that they have resurrected a former gentleman of
Barbados, Mr. E. K. Walcott. He never had any respect
for the hon, senior member for the City, That is what went
out. It is a strange situation in a country like this that a
former member of this House, a manwhohas been rejected
from a party that has been rejected, a man who has retired
from legal life, a man whom I have tremendous amount of
respect for and there are fewpeople who have his intel-
ligence in this Island. His intelligence, however, has never
been used in a social sense; it was always used in power
politics. He was the Lord High Executioner. All that I am
showing is that they are so desperate to get back into
power that they have brought back out an old man like this
to appear on platforms because they feel that somebody
may have owed him a debt. When I say a debt, I do not
mean a debt of money. I am referring to Mr. E. K. Walcott.
They have even brought him out to canvass against Indepen-
dence. He has lived in a society which has had a Conser-
vative policy. He is a hater of people of African descent.
Of course, he would respect me for my legal achievements,
for my ability to stand up withhim and work as long as he.
But this does not fool me about those people.

I want to bring over to the people the enormity of the
situation that those people are fighting those battles, not for
their own people but for people that despise them. They
cannot even go into their homes throughthe back door. They
are the people who are intellectual inferiors of those
people, but because of their vested interest and because they
get money coming into their pockets, they are prepared to
do anything to destroy their self-respect and the national
integrity of the people of Barbados. Mr. Speaker, you
should know that.
Mr. SPEAKER left the Chair and Mr. DEPUTY
SPEAKER took the Chair,

Mr. Deputy Speaker, I was pointing out on this Reso-
lution for independence that in this countrythere are people
who have been trying to sow disruption. They have been
recruiting mercenaries and people who never appeared
in any political party to do their work for them.
6.20 p.m.

What I am merely saying is that it is rather sordid; it
is demoralising even to think about it that the same people
whom we are employing have been ableto dispossess more
people than there are employed. There is no other country
which has gone into Independence with as bitter public
discourses as we have had, and with as ridiculous an
attempt to undermine the Government which is merely saying
that this Government should proceed to Independence now
just as the people gave us the Mandate to do in 1961. No
other country in the West Indies has ever had such a Man-
date. The Government of Trinidad and Tobago certainly
did not have any such Mandate. The Government of Antigua's
full discussion was an exercise in 1962 carried out at
Marlborough House in June, and they attended subsequent
meetings of the Chief Ministers and myself in various
places including Barbados and Antigua. We have had ten
meetings, and are they now telling us that they have the
right to pollute the atmospherewith all kinds of accusations
against members of the Government ascribing to them
improper motives, the inabilityto discuss things and soon?
They have even suggested that I broke up the Tenth Meeting
of the Regional Council of Ministers.

Previous to the meeting of the Council of Ministers
the Government or the people gaveme a Mandate. One half
of that mandate was disclosed for the simple fact that even
at that late hour we did not want to do anything, but we
had more or less made up our minds that things had reached
an impasse. I will read the Minutes, but I deliberately have
not read those Minutes before: One person has spoken at
two meetings and he has not said anything different from
what I have said. What do they know about Federation and


1











how Governments are run?Did they know about the policy,
did they know about the Constitution of the Windward and
Leeward Island? You will find that theMinutes are on page
10 of the Meeting of the Regional Council of Ministers.
The Secretary of Statefor the Colonies saidthat he was not
accepting Antigua's views.An Independent Federation has to
be worked out by the people in the area. In an association
you have to work together and not oneperson gets his views
agreed to. There was no reasonable compromise because
they were things which were unacceptable both to the Gov-
ernment of Barbados and the Government of Antigua. There
is the newly-appointed Chief Minister of St. Lucia and he is
a man with whom I always got on very well. I had certain
professional relations with him as Idid withMr. Vere Bird,
Mr. Bradshaw and Mr. Southwell. I went to the same
University as Mr. Compton and I was the first person to
congratulate him. Mr. Southwell had deported 62 St. Lucians
from St. Kitts and up to now the only St. Lucians who have
been deported from Barbados are those who are deemed
rogues and vagabonds. I do not want anyenmity stirred up
between this population and other populations, but when
people accuse me of all sorts of things, I am not going to
preside over this Government and see corruption carried
out, see people deprived of their jobs because of political
reasons and say nothing about it. I will not see every
constitutional principle thrown through the window and dis-
carded. I will not preside over the Government under
those conditions. We have made decisions with which our
own people do not agree, but if we did not make those
decisions you would have heard a hue and cry and uproar.

Sometimes when a person has a legal and moral
right because of his association with the Government in
one form or another, I have had to make a decision. It
cannot be said that this Government did not pay proper
attention to the constitutional proprieties. I want the editors
of Newspapers who have written articles in the 'Ion treal
Star to know that it may cost them some money. I am not
disclosing any details at this stage. How is it that we are
going to have a dictatorship and we are not going to have
elections and that sort of thing? I want to say this: The
Secretary of State for the Colonies cannot tell me or this
Government when we should hold an election: neither can
the newspapers tell me when I am to hold an election. I
will tell the Secretary of State for the Colonies that I have
the authority to call for an election, to say when an election
is to be held, so long it is held and it will be held --
within the statutory period. Inthat case the newspapers can
go on writing: they can say that the Secretary of State
for the Colonies can call for an election and show to the
people that I am a liar.
6.30 p.m.

I do not want to embarrass the Secretary of State or
any other Government. I make the decision about elections
and this is a constitutional right. This is not a right which I
have arrogated unto myself in my search for dictatorial
power or any nonsense like that. How dishonest can people
get in this country? When you examine it, you will find that
the people who go in for this kind of vilification have not got
a single achievement to their credit, a single achievement
which has been the subject of impartial examination by
anybody inside a school or University or outside: not a
single political achievement for the years they are supposed,
like the last Government, to have spent in here. The only
achievement they have is the achievement of slander and
degration: but they underestimate the intelligence of the
masses of this country, because the masses of this coun-
try want independence, The masses of this country have
been feeling the pinch; the masses of this country have too
much sense to aspire to get into company which is intellec-
tually inferior to the African heritage; butwehave a bunch
of humbugs in this country whose only ambition is to iden-
tify themselves with the hegemony, the presiding power of
Great Britain, people who look like British people and
therefore are associated with the presiding power, and if
they get into their company, they feel that some of this
prestige will rub off on them. That is why they do not want
independence, because when you remove the tutelage of
subservience and the bonds which keep you down, then
every man is the same man. This is a psychological prob-
lem.


Mr. Deputy Speaker, it depresses me particularly and
the members of my Party because we recognize analyti-
cally that this is one of the sad effects of colonialism, I
really would be disappointed in a certain way because I
thought that with the long tradition we have in Barbados,
when we have had to stare facts in the face, and knowing
that the people think about us, we would see that they are
economically and culturally opposed to the masses of this
country. The masses of a country are the true people in
every countryand theyknow it; and totry to fool the masses
is to underestimate the intelligence of the masses.

What I find rather depressing in the whole exercise is
that they know we have a Constitution, because they have
been living under the Constitution and working under the
Constitution in so far as it suited them. When it did not suit
them, they committed breaches of the constitutional pro-
prieties. If I say, therefore, that Icannotview their activi-
ties with any sense of respect as a Barbadian, it is because
I am a Barbadian and I am a loyal Barbadian. Anybody who
knows me would know well enough that I have no ambition.
This is one of my stumbling blocks all my life. I probably
would have been a lot further iflhad ambition, I have cer-
tain principles: they may be Victorian and you may consider
them ingenuous. Because of the modern-day thought of
'dog eat dog', some people think that anybodywho thinks in
Victorian terms is out of date and not "with it"; therefore
among some people it is an expedient thing to accept
money for political favours dispensed as part and parcel
of what they call the game of politics. But it is not a game
with us; it is a serious business. I see issues directly in
terms of black and white, and there are no gradations be-
tween as far as I am concerned; butthere are people in this
country and other countries too who consider politics a
game. They make the pretext that they would do this and
that for the people and that kind of thing. They do not want
the people to get too much, because if you do all the things
for the people that should be done for them, the State would
then wither away and you would no longer continue to be an
important personage.

If you give a man the right to work for his own living
at a wage he considers compatible with his aspirations for
himself and his children, then you do not have any more
hold over him: but if you cankeephim in a state of degra-
dation and make him feel inferior, then they will always
use you as the buffer between his oppressors and himself,
and this is the role assumed by too many politicians in
Barbados for too long. This is the role which has been as-
sumed by too many of our politicians in Barbados, content
to be the buffer element between the masses and the peo-
ple who do not participate in the society. They only bleed
the society: they do not participate; they do not speak to
certain people: they do not communicate with them except
during business hours. This is the kind of society we are
against and they know we are against it. It is not a question
of black or white, because we have more black political
humbugs than we have white humbugs, and we have them
right here in this House unfortunately. There are certain
things, for instance, that some members on the other side
would stoop to which the hon. junior member for Christ
Church would never stoop to: he does not have to, and he
knows he would incur probably the animosityofhis party if
he did them: but other people do these things which are
detrimental to the society and they get applauded for it,
because to be smart in this society you have to scramble
over somebody. It does not matter how you get there: all
will be forgiven. It does not matter how many people you
assassinate or how many people you put to death or how
many people are deprived of their livelihood: it does not
matter as long as you get there: when you get there like
Morgan the pirate, and all the other rogues and villains
of history like Lord Nelson, youwill be crowned with im-
perial honours at the end.


If we go back then in making this analysis of West
Indian society, we have been made this way by our history,
It has been a historyofoppression, and some of us are in a
hurry to dissociate ourselves from this longhistoryof op-
pression, and they are so stupid, theyhavebecome so im-












bued with this spirit of cynicismthattheyare unaware that
the quickest way to get away from this long history of op-
pression is for all the people to get away, and not a few of
them climbing to the top of the ladder and kicking it down
behind them,
6,40 p.m.

All of us have to escape; they are not a few of us es-
caping. What does it profit a man to be Prime Minister of
Barbados or of the West Indies? What does it mean? It
means nothing if you lose your soul and achieve these ob-
jectives. What can you do with a man who is living at sub-
sistence level after you have profited and have acquired all
of these material comforts? How many meals a day can you
eat? I want to tell some of the young professional people
in this country that nobody has ever been revered in his-
tory for having become the richest man. As a matter of
fact, in the United States, they arein danger of their lives.
At one time they had that as a national philosophy: but peo-
ple respect the late John FitzGerald Kennedy, not because
he was one of the wealthier peopleinthe United States, but
for the principles which he had. They respected Mr. Henry
Wallace not because he was SecretaryofState, not because
he had a Socialist swing, but people respected him for his
ability as Secretary of Agriculture.

People do not respect you for getting into a certain
position. Nobody respects me or would respect the Minis-
ters of Government or any Premier of Barbados if they
go in for corruption. With all the slander and lies which
members of the Opposition have told onme, if any of them
can stand up and say that anybody paid me five dollars, I
will hold my peace. I will hold my peace if anybody would
get up and say that Ihave accepted money for doing anything
corrupt. A lot of them over there cannot say that. I have
never been fortunate enough to win a sweepstake, but I do
not intend to get my hands soiled for them or anybody else.
I have to discharge my duty to the programme which has
been laid down by us and to the people of Barbados and
those are the premises from which I am speaking. Some of
them are so corrupt that they cannot understand how none
of us on this sideoftheHouseare not. Corruption is some-
thing to them which is crowned with precious stones in
these days when you look around and see "bauball" going
around to use a good Trinidadian expression --. Some
people feel that you must try and get as rich as possible in
the shortest possible time,

This political conduct appears to be notable today,
However, when you have finished, look at Batista of Cuba
and all the other people like him! Mussolini of Italy was
hanged upside down. He was the leader of one of the largest
countries in Europe. Look at how Hitler ended up At one
time he held the sway with 88 million people in Germany.
No West Indian politician can hold that domination and
sway which the Reich Chancellor held in Germany. Where
are allofthemtoday? But the names of the liberators, how-
ever poor they were, would remain. Simon Bolivar died a
poor man on a little island called Marguerita off the North
Coast of Venezuela, Look at the liberators like Alexander
Hamilton, George Washington, Touissant L'Ouverture,
They were in the position where they could have been cor-
rupt, but they did not allow themselves to be corrupted,
When the history of Barbados in 1966 is written I am a
very angry man now, but I am going to make a positive
statement of fact -- all the peoplewhohave participated in
this exercise of trying to pull down what we have built up
for Barbados posterity would have their names desecrated
in every sense of the term, and if posterity could dig up
their bones or hang them in effigy, posterity would do that.
Therefore, do not let any of them have any illusions. This
is a very serious matter. After the country had been ex-
posed during the last three months -- three months which
we allowed for democratic discussion -- to the sort of
sordid conduct that has been witnessed and to our having
mercenaries like the white bastards in the Belgian Congo
and it is a historical fact that even in the African coun-
tries, they employed white mercenaries to shoot down their
own people, that even in this country of Barbados you find
the white people hiring black people to keep back their own
people. I want to tell you this. I rejoice because the Al-
mighty moves in a mysterious way, his wonders to per-


form, because what this exercise has done more than
anything else is to separate the sheep from the goats, the
honest from the dishonest and the liars from the leaders.

No Government in the history of mankind has ever
made a projection as this Government has made for the
people of this Island. This Government have been sub-
jected to attacks from outside and inside, from within and
from without. They were working like termites fromwithin.
This Government has been attacked from inside and from
outside, but we have managed to eradicate certain dis-
ruptive elements which we were aware of, but due to my
own defect of giving every man the benefit of the doubt I
have to wait until they come out with something openly.
It is not my character, it is not my nature, to do anything
on which I am not completely informed. In these days of
this kind of political scramble, you have to be a man like
L. B. Johnson who knows all theditches and knows what to
expect. I do not have the timeto learn all the tricks: I learn
by the mistakes which I make. Anyhow, once I have iden-
tified who is my enemy, he would never be able to get
back into the confidence of myself or the people of Bar-
bados. What this exercise has done for us is to act as a
kind of enema. What it has done is to separate the sheep
from the goats. It has purged the conscience of the com-
munity of the disharmonious elements. This has acted as
a catalyst to bring up to the surface everything that is
wrong in a community like this. Wehave learnt one lesson
and one lesson alone, that is how not to live together in
unity.
6.50 p.m.

We have evolved a formula for living together but not
having any strength. This is one of the paradoxes of our
Colonial situation in Barbados. I could go on and give you
a lot of stories. Things are improving, but they are not
what they should be and there are many things which we
have experienced since this Resolution was laid in this
House. The White Paper was laid before the Legislature in
August and the Resolution was tabled afterwards. We have
allowed three months for free unbridled discussion in this
country. I know of no other country including the United
States and the United Kingdom where the people who ex-
hibit these disruptive propensities would be allowed to
walk about the capital with impunity. I saythat without any
reservation. That in itself shows that we have had to purge
ourselves of the things which have existed in the community
for all of these years. The masses have begun to speak
for themselves and long may they continue to do so.

There are people who get on platforms and make all
sorts of disruptive statements. It has been an expensive
exercise, not in the sense of money to spend, but an ex-
pensive exercise psychologically on the time of the people
who have to explain with restraint and dispassionately the
issues which confront us from day to day. It has been a
severe test of endurance to my Ministers and on the pa-
tience and goodwill of allofus onthis side of the House. At
one time I was somewhat afraid that the people would have
become very incensed about this situation which other
people want to create. Do not let us mince matters: why
have we had to tell lies on ourselves? What do we say to
ourselves all the time? You are a barrister, the Speaker
is a barrister and there are certain barristers in this coun-
try who have never invited youto their houses, and you could
provide things better than they and many of them are your
inferiors culturally and otherwise. When they read the
laws and go home they speak inthe most derogatory terms
about us because you are getting too closeto anything. You
are practising the same profession. Most of them are the
descendants of slaves who have been sent out here for
committing crimes: that is their mentality and therefore
they cannot get away from it. They are discredited in
politics and they have to use the Press. The soul of this
community has to be laid bare, and there is no better time
to do that than when we arepreparingfor independence, so
that we know what we are, who we are and where we are
going.

I began practising in the Law Courts in Barbados when
professional men were addressed as "boys" by Judges.
They have said that I am unrulybecause I am always telling
off the Judges. I have been sitting in Court and I heard a












Judge address a barrister as "boy" and I have had to say:
"Your Honour, you are not now on a plantation; you are in
Her Majesty's Court and that is a learned member of the
profession." There is no sanctity in the Court. Some of the
greatest crimes have been perpetrated under the name of
truth and Justice. Christians were persecuted because of
this belief in the protection of the Empire. Judge Jeffries
was a notorious criminal and he was a Judge. When there
is a little political agitation going on and they can attack
me, that is all right. I expect that because I can defend
myself, I cannot use any Latin phrases because His Honour
the Speaker has said that the debates have to be conducted
in English. I will say that there is a most wicked animal:
the more you attack him the morehedefends himself. The
animal is wicked because the more you attack him, the
more he defends himself. I intend to defend myself. The
people who have money in this country are uncultured and
they have no use for nine-tenths of the people of this coun-
try. Look at their houses. All theywant to know is how much
profit they are going to make and how much money they are
going to lose. They do not understand the first thing of the
complexities of the system. They know more than Dr.
Williams, who is the Premier of Trinidad and Tobago, and
Mr. V. C. Bird, who is the Chief Minister of Antigua and
who they claim was only a captain in the Salvation Army.
7.00 p.m.

On a public platform they said that Mr. Bird is only a
Captain in theSalvation Army. Welllmust congratulate Mr.
Bird on having officer's rank, becauseifhehad been a Pri-
vate in the Salvation Army, I hate to think what they would
have said about him. Who are all these people and what have
they contributed to the society? Nothing. They do not like
the legislation we pass, and I am not asking them to like
it. They are going to like the Tenantries Bill and they are
going to like the Social Securities Bill. They do not like
these things because they feel people are becoming too in-
dependent: so what are they saying? They have no cultural
standing: they have no political ideology: they are only in an
entrenched position of privilege and prestige, of prestige
inherited by the association with the metropolitan country
which is always willing to run to their rescue,

I want to say something about the metropolitan country,
I have already made my peace during the course of the de-
bate by saying that there are a lot of things I admire, I ad-
mire the British system of justice when it operates in the
way it is supposed to operate. It does not always operate so,
and Judge Jeffries is a case pinpoint. You have had crimes
committed in the name of justice, Youhavehad people shot
down here.for merely trying to protest something that was
boiling-up inside of them, and what I want to refer to is this:
right here in my White Paper I have referred to the Central
African Federation which lasted from 1953 to 1963. The
Central African Federation was dissolved in 1963 because
of Mr. Kenneth Kaunda and Dr. Hastings Banda, the respec-
tive leaders of their peoples...... You only need one Moses
to bring the people out of Egypt. Youhave heard of Kenneth
Kaunda and Dr. Hastings Banda, Both ofthemhave been in
gaol for agitating for freedom for their people; so what did
the British Government do? Theythrewthem into a Federa-
tion with Southern Rhodesia in 1953 and put Mr. Kaunda and
Dr. Banda in gaol, and the effect of this Federation was to
give 200,000 white Rhodesians perpetual dominance over
the 4 million Africans in Southern Rhodesia, and God knows
how many, probably 8 million, speaking subject to correc-
tion, in what used to be Nyasaland and Northern Rhodesia,
and which are now Malawi and Zambia respectively. I do
not know Dr. Banda: I know Kenneth Kaunda, He said in 1963
that the whole device of this Federation was to give the
white settlers in Southern Rhodesia prominence over the
territories and they tried to justify it on economic
grounds. The complimentary nature of the economy was
the fact that the power station, the Kariba Dam, was useful
to both territories, that copper had to pass through this
railroad and that kind of thing. There were all kinds of
fancy reasons.

You will remember, Sir, that Britainproposed econo-
mic sanctions against Rhodesia and Mr, Douglas Bader


opposed those economic sanctions, and said thathewas not
against Rhodesia and was defending the cause of Mr, Ian
Smith, I do not have anything against peoplewho are white:
I get on very well with them until these issues come up. He
is one of the greatest heroes produced inhistory; a man who
escaped several times from the Germans, had both legs
amputated and continued to fly in the face of overwhelm-
ing physical odds, I have sat down right here in Barbados
and eaten lunch with him: I had a tremendous respect for
him; but what has he done? He came out now and said that
there is nothing wrong in what Mr, Ian Smith has done; so
he is not now my friend: he need not even send me a post-
card, because I would send it back. His record is there and
nobody can take that away from him: but as far as calling
me by my first name and mycallinghim 'Douglas' is con-
cerned, all that is over, because Ihaveto be with my peo-
ple first, and Mr. Douglas Bader came out two weeks ago
and made a statement attacking the British Government for
selling out their people. Who is being sold out?

Let us examine the situation. The BritishGovernment
tried to sell out the people of Southern Rhodesia -- I am
talking about independence now and Mr. Kenneth Kaunda
and Dr. Hastings Banda managed to mobilise the Africans
and world opinion against them so that they had in 1964 to
grant independence to these countries; but they had to
break up the Federation first. You had the countries of
Tanganyika, Kenya and Uganda: they had an East African
Common Service Commission, and all the economic reasons
existed why they should have a political union. As a matter
of fact, as late as 1963 when I was in East Africa, Mr.
Milton Obote and Mr, Julius Nyere told me that they still
hoped to have some kind of confederation. For years they
have had an East African Common Service: this is a con-
trivance by the British Government to get rid of their
constitutional problems: they do not care what happens
afterwards because they are not responsible for youafter-
wards. I will go further and I am going to quote, and the
Leader of the Opposition knows what I am saying is true
because he was in London with me. I was fighting for
greater constitutional advancement and the Leader of
the Opposition can raise his hand when Iam right and shake
his head if I am wrong. I was fighting for greater consti-
tutional advancement for these islands when Iwas in London
and I sat down and listened to Mr. Maudling, and to Mr.
Fraser who was Under-Secretary, and I listened to the
supercilious officials who were smirking all thetime at the
behaviour of some of the Chief Ministers. Mr, Maudling
was saying that we had too much Government down here and
too many Ministers, and that we must cut down, I pointed
out to Mr. Maudling that when they did not have any Min-
isters at all in Antigua the national income was something
like $1.8 million, and a fewyears after Mr. Bird took over,
it was up to $13 million and the cost to the people of Antigua
was $25,000. I told Mr. Maudling to his face at that Con-
ference that he was talking through his hat for the reason
that people came along through the Trade Union Movement
and had to fight against entrenched interests to get some
kind of constitutional advancement in these islands. They
were not economists.
7.10 p.m.

Those were different days days when people thought
in terms of constitutional change. Theythought that was the
solution of everybody's problems. For example, Rhodesia
never thought of giving the four million Africans the vote.
I would come back to that in a moment because I hinted when
I took sanctions against Rhodesia that I would say some-
thing which would make your hair curl.

Finally, I got so disgusted with the behaviour of the
British Officials that I pulled out the Report of the Lee-
wards and Windwards Constitutional Conference held in
plenary session after the conference to decide on the con-
stitutional changes for the Federation.

Sir Grantley Adams' Federation was a dependent Fed-
eration, a Crown Colony Federation, andindesperationMr.
Manley and Dr. Williams called a conference in England
which was to make the Federation independent on the 31st












day of May, 1962, That was the date set for the independ-
ence of the West Indies Federation, but it was broken up
on the same date. The British Government broke it up on
that date.

Immediately after that, the leaders of the Leeward and
Windward Islands called for a conference and they never
left London. This was held and I baited Mr. Maudling all
along the line. I think that I produced the Report of the
Windwards and Leewards Conference which had pro-
pounded constitutional changes, which were far superior
to what they had and Mr. Maudling said something as re-
gards the Constitution and I replied "keep Barbados out
of this." Then I pulled out my despatch box and produced
correspondence which passed between the Government of
Barbados on the 15th October, 1960 and the Government of
the United Kingdom. It is the only Constitution in the world
which says that the colony should have not less than so
many Ministers. As you know, our Constitution states that
you should have not less than five ministers and Mr.
Maudling got the shock of his life. I asked him if he was
seriously suggesting that. You have them sending down a
man with a cheque for 10, 000.Those whose main concern in
politics is money can take these bribes: but we consider in-
dependence to be more important. All that theywere doing
was to put a big millstone around thepeople's necks. These
were people who had no programme for the people of these
Islands, but wanted to milk the people of Barbados like a
milch cow.
At that Conference, as you will see in the Report, we
discussed the statement that the Ministers should reduce
their number of Ministers to three in each territory and
two in Montserrat. I pointed out the cost to the Govern-
ment and people of Antigua for ministerial system was
$25,000. Under the British Government, they had only
been able to raise a revenue of$1.8million and out of that
the Government paid its official representative,

Now, Sir, we are Indifferent to the talks from the peo-
ple on the other side. The effect of the Conference in 1961
was to propound constitutional changes. As far as I can see,
the sole aim was to relieve Great Britain and save them
from criticism on the floor of United Nations. I have to pre-
sume that people's motives are straightforward. There
would be no future occasion for me to blow any fanfare
or fulminate against the British people other than on mat-
ters of international policy,

Let me tell you now that I am very perturbed. I took
this document in there to the conference and read out the
proposals. You will have to know these things to understand.
None of these people who have beengoing around posing as
intellectuals has been engaged in these exercises as long as
I have been.

The Hon. Leader of the Opposition may recall what I
told him of what had transpired,

This document is a Report of the Windwards and Lee-
wards Constitutional Conference which was held in June
last year. In this document you would see that each unit
must have a Governor, each Island is entitled to have a
Premier, nominated members appointed to the Upper
Chamber or the single Chamber, The Governor is to be
appointed by the Queen after consultation with a Federal
Prime Minister. All that is in here, I said: "Here it is;
today you are saying things which mean a substantial re-
duction not only on this document, but even on the Con-
stitutions which they now enjoy.
7.20 p.m.

How can you do that? I nearly lost my temper because
they were treating these people like little children, "Why
is it that you are prepared to give them all of these things
in 1961?" This was the Conference at Lancaster House: we
were at Marlborough House for the first time. This was at
Lancaster House immediately after the West Indies Con-
ference which fixed a date for Independence, Youmay think
that I am digressing at length, but I want people to under-
stand. You must know the premises from which you are


arguing so that people will understand the mentality of the
people whom you are dealing with. You know the pressure
which Is being put on Great Britain and the United States,
and the only people who are arguing against independence
for Barbados are a few touts and mercenaries of Barbados.
It is only some employers and I can call their names..,. I
can get off any plane or any boat in the West Indies so long
as the territories are inhabited, and every policeman would
know me and every Cabinet Minister also would know me. I
know the premises upon which I am arguing, and they know
that I was trying to impress upon them the things which they
could not even see at the time.

I have come across inthe United Kingdom some of the
crudest people Ihave ever come across in my life, and some
of us try to ape all the worst features of the English edu-
cational system. I did not eat any lunch up there because I
was worried. The hon, senior member for the City was
more lucky than I ambecause he could bring along his lunch
with him. There were people who toldthehon. member that
he must not havehis lunch. Mr. DeputySpeaker, I was very
much perturbed over the attitude of the Secretary of State
for the Colonies. I was so perturbed that I asked: "Why are
you telling these people that they cannot have this and they
cannot have that and twelve months before youwere telling
them that they could have internal self-government for each
colony?" They were going to have a constitution not dis-
similar from the constitution which Barbados enjoyed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Iwantto saywhatI am saying now
quite slowly. In saying this you will understand the official
attitude, the great underlying attitude of those people, the
British Officials, towards us in the West Indies. He looked
me straight inthe face and said thatthe answer is very sim-
ple; "we thought that by this time we would have got rid of
them." If you ask me outside who said it, you will get the
shock of your life. The hon. leader of the Opposition knows
who it is, too. In other words, they were putting off the
headaches of the Leeward and Windward Islands to the
Federal Government, and if the FederalGovernmnt hadn't
broken up we would have had this Constitution. When you
talk about political immorality, you have to understand that
there is a country which has ruthlessly taken hold of the
economy of the other countries, people who are more be-
nighted than ourselves and less advanced in what they
choose to call civilisation; they have murdered, detriba-
lised and suppressed their religious activities and that
sort of thing, forbidding them to use their own language.
You cannot be surprised that the residual effects of that
kind of harsh treatment must still be manifested in the be-
haviour of some politicians of the Colonial territories
today,


What I want to impress upon hon. members is that
there is nothing politically moral in the exercise of this
Federation at all In other words, it was the device to get
rid of the incorrigible politicians of the Leeward and Wind-
ward Islands who were causing them quite a lot of head-
aches. At the same time, there will be people of a certain
mealy-mouthed, holier-than-thou attitude who would say
that they have created another territory free to a state of
independence as if the whole experience was some sort of
Sunday-School exercise and not one of the worst things
which could be perpetrated in the history of mankind. Sir,
do you think that we will get the results of this exercise
overnight? You cannot get that. I could not understand the
attitude of the British Government because I had this do-
cument. I brought it here with me today not knowing that I
would have had to use it. I brought this document here in
order that I could move on from here.
7.30 p.m.


I want to say now forthe last time that you are only able
to appreciate this thing in its true perspective when you
understand what I was told in the Church House, which is
the headquarters of the Colonial Office in Great Smith
Street, during the time I should be in to lunch, and I was
perturbed in my mind at the attitude of the British Govern-
ment that they were only granting the Windward and Lee-
ward Islands this constitution because they thought that


I












within twelve months they would have got rid of them, In
other words, it would be the headache of Trinidad, Bar-
bados and Jamaica, and they could not care less.

I want to move on now because I have been speaking
for a long time, and I wantto answer any foolishness which
perhaps the members of the public may want certain elu-
cidation on that may emanate from the other side during
the course of this debate. I am not therefore exhausting
your patience or the patience of hon. members, but this is
an important matter, and I am saying things today that I
never said before. I am confessing that I laid a certain
political trap for my political enemies, and Imake no apo-
logy for it, and I confess that the purpose of laying that
trap is that I would not have felt secure with. this country
going into independence not knowing who weretheenemies
of the society; but now we know.

The attitude of the British Government was that they
would have got rid of the Islands, The attitude of the
British Government today Is still what it had been before,
that is, that they are not prepared to underwrite the cost
of Barbados carrying these other islands. I am not going
to discuss the Federal Constitution, because I have been
discussing that for three and a half years. The other peo-
ple are new on this thing and are reading documents for
the first time, and 9917o of thedocuments they have not read
because some of them are not available to them: but I will
tell you the documents that students ofhistorywill have to
read. I read the first and second reasons advanced, the
first being the failure of the United Kingdom Government
to indicate the amount of financial aid, and second being the
withdrawal of the Governments of Grenada and Antigua from
the discussions. The third reason was the stated unwilling-
ness of the Government of Montserrat to join a Federation
which did not include Antigua.

The Government of Antigua sent a dispatch before the
Tenth meeting informing the Secretary of State that the
Government of Antigua would not be prepared to continue
the Federal exercise anymore, Now you would think that
the Government of Antigua was the first Government to do
that. Little do you know, Mr, DeputySpeaker, that the Gov-
ernment of Montserrat about a year before that had in-
formed Her Majesty's Government that they were not con-
tinuing the Federal exercise, and they were not continuing
because Mr. Bramble did not want to pay more taxation.
Montserrat can bear a lot more taxation, butMr. Bramble
has 18,000 acres of land in Plymouth and Mr, Bramble
wanted Montserrat to be exempt from any kind of taxation
in any shape or form whatsoever. Mr. Duncan Sandys is a
very tough man, and he could not understand how a colony
with a budget of $460,000 could want to abolish all taxation
on companies. I am not talking about import duties, because
that would be a Federal matter.

When Mr. Duncan Sandys did not give the undertaking
although we said that if that is the way the British Govern-
ment felt about it, that is their own responsibility to make up
the deficit of the money of course they did not do that -
and refused to make any commitmentonthis, Mr. Bramble
filed a notice with the British Government that he was not
prepared to attend any more conferences on Federation.
I have the despatches here, and any member of the House
is entitled to get up and read them. This happened long be-
fore Antigua withdrew, some time around December, 1964
or January, 1965, I may not becorrecton the dates as I am
speaking purely from memory, I have been at this thing
3 1/2 years when I should be looking after the business of
the people of Barbados, when I should be looking to see
that some of thethings which should be implemented are only
now coming into force: but my energies were diverted to
this tedious exercise all the time. Mr.Bramble went on
television like a screen star selling land in Montserrat.
I believe he passed through London and got the Secretary
of State to agree that he would consider making Montserrat
a tax haven, and if you carry on business, you would not
have to pay companies tax,

On returning to the capital City of Plymouth, Mr.
Bramble addressed a telegram to the Premier of Bar-
bados from the Chief Minister of Montserrat which read
as follows:-


"In view of recent assurances given to me by the Gov-
ernment of the United Kingdom, the Government of Mont-
serrat is now ready to resume the Federal exercise."

They withdraw from the Federal discussions, We did
not publish this; but the Secretary of State gave him the
undertaking that he would not have to pay any taxes. Now
for the first time Mr. Bramble's economic position had a
tremendous advantage. I wonder if this is an advantage
for the people of Montserrat. I wonder if people can have
their self respect if in perpetuity they have to depend on
charity from somebody else, because in the latest consti-
tutional proposals, Montserrat is left out. No matter how
Dr. Carleen O'Loughlln and Professor Hicks worked com-
putations as if they were playing Vernon Pools, they could
not get Montserrat out of being a grant-aided territory in
ten years; so you imagine the effect of removing taxation
and income tax altogether where they really should be put,
and then imposing that burden on the only two territories
who pay their' own way, Barbados and Antigua. This is what
they want me to put the people of Barbados in.

I just began to read the Tenth meeting of the Regional
Council of Ministers on page 6. These are the minutes and
can become documents oftheHouse. Afterthe Governments
of Antigua and St. Lucia had complained about St. Lucians
being deported from St. Kitts, all the Chief Minister of St.
Lucia could say was that he was prepared to recommend
to the St. Lucia Government that they should continue their
discussions with such territories as wished to establish
some form of association in the Eastern Caribbean.
7.40 p.m.
The Chief Minister of St. Lucia was prepared to
recommend that they continue their discussion on some
form of association in the Eastern Caribbean. Thatwas the
beginning of the meeting. This particularformhe could not
however state because a number of things had changed
since they had been summoned to the meeting. For example,
the Government of Antigua had withdrawn and the Chief
Minister of Montserrat had declared his reluctance to par-
ticipate between a Federation which excluded Antigua.

Now the Premier of Barbados in paragraph 10 on page
3 made his first statement. He said "he would never agree
"that Barbados should take up whatever bits and pieces
"were left from the original decision of the Eight. From
"the beginning and right up to the change of Government in
"St. Lucia the territories contemplating a Federation had
"negotiated on an equal basis and their negotiations had
"been conducted in an atmosphere of harmony. He was not
"willing to say that the Secretary ofStatewas correct and
"that the view of the Government of Antigua was wrong.
"Antigua had been discarded without any attempt to find any
"solution to the impasse. For that reason he thought the
"whole situation was in need of re-examination. Theywere
"not prepared to proceed on the basis of the Secretary of
"State's; dispatch which was not seen as an ultimatum to
"Barbados. The United Kingdomhas failed to state the
"quantum of financial aid that would be forthcoming to the
"proposed Federation. If such action had been taken two
"years ago there would have been no difficulties in ac-
"cepting Command Paper 1746 as a basis for Federation.He
"could not understand how anyone could take exception to
"the present stand of the Barbados Government since the
"United Kingdom Government had beenequivocating and had
"adopted an attitude of ambivalence and had refused to de-
"clare how it would discharge its responsibility to the
"territories of the group this reshuffling of cards would not
" be acceptable to the Government of Barbados. The survi-
"val of Barbados did not depend on accepting a Federation
"on any kind of basis. Barbados had survived without bud-
"getary assistance from any other Government. His Gov-
"eminent had done everything possible to foster the idea
"of Federation and he would have to consult the Legisla-
"ture and the political parties including his own political
"party.

:" The Barbados Government had made several conces-
'sions throughout the federal exercises. Since Marl-
"borough House, a territory had been allowed to contract
"out. They had made another concession to the Government
" of Montserrat with respect to its income tax. He was












"however, prepared to examine the whole matter de novo
"but not on the basis of the Secretary of State's dispatch.
"No one could take exception to the Government of Barba-
"dos, inthe changed circumstances, declining to state
"categorically that it favoured a Federation of the Six in
"view of the failureofthe United Kingdom Government over
"the past two years to makeanydeclarationconcerning the
"quantum of financial aid that would be available to the
"proposed Federation."

I just want to tell you this. On page 4 at paragraph 13
"He (The Premier of Barbados) referred to a conversation
"which he had had in 1963 withMr. Duncan Sandys, the then
"Secretary of State for the Colonies, who, when questioned
"about the quantum of assistance that would be available to
"the proposed Federation, said that he was not prepared
"to buy any federation and that the territories must want
"federation for the sake of federation. This remarkhe con-
"sidered insolent."

I have said it in this House and I have said it in public

"14. He wanted to know what form of federationthe
"Chief Minister of St. Lucia and theother Chief Ministers
"had in mind since in the circumstances he could not as-
"sume the validity of either the draft Federal Scheme or
"the Secretary of State's despatch."

Mr. Bradshaw asked Sir Stephen Luke what statement
he had to make. Sir Stephen Luke saidthat "he had no idea
of the quantum of aid that would be available to the federa-
tion", all he could say was thattheSecretary of State made
a "promise of sympathetic and extensive consultation when
the Governments had decided in broad terms whether or not
they wished to federate."

Now, Sir Stephen Luke was telling us: "You federate
first; and after you federate, we will then see if we can
give you sympathetic consultation. What I want to know is
how much this sympathy is worth in dollars and cents to
islands which are given $7.9 million?

In a private conversation explaining the issue, I said:
"You are paying $7.9 million and that it is for administra-
tion. You give them so much now under Development and
Welfare grants and then yon are giving them one or two
special grants which you make available. Why do not you
add them up and say that this is what we know about?"
Every time I came up against this blank wall and the words
came back to me which I repeated to the Hon. Leader of the
Opposition and those words kept repeating and repeating
themselves. So, he had not even been given any authority to
say anything except as far as you can see from the despatch
which was released and circulated in this House.

We did not agree with the Secretary of State. Antigua
said that they had finished. They did not come to the next
meeting.
7.50 p.m.

I am quoting again from the much-misquoted meeting.
I will say this: it is true thatPress releases are scanty and
they do not have much information. Sometimes that is a
good thing because, when you are trying to arrive at a un-
animous decision with a lot of different information in a
group, whether it be a public company, apolitical associa-
tion or otherwise, it is not wise to come out and say what
the position is because you have a person in a position
where he cannot really modify his views. Press releases
have got to be scanty unless something has really been ac-
hieved. Therefore, I admit that the Press releases were
scanty and what you are hearing now you are hearing for
the first time; but that does not give you the authority for
saying something which is not true.

Nobody who has been going about parading as a politi-
cal pundit has had the Minutes of the 10th Meeting of the
Regional Council of Ministers. If somebody tells a lie as to
what happens at meetings, Ihave no authority for saying that
it did not take place, because I am restricted by the rules
with which we are governed and by the conventions by which
we are regulated; but I have the authority to say, with all


the people who have been pontificating, thatthe Hon. Leader
of the House has had special arrangements to have the
Official Gazette brought out early with this debate. There
is not going to be any broadcast of this debate because on
the last occasion it took eight months to get the debate
finished, because we only had half an hour allocated to the
broadcasting of the debate each night. Wehad to suffer and
therefore we must have an accurate and speedy report of
the debate. So, for the first time, you are now hearing this
in public. They never even had a drink with any of the
Ministers; or discussed how the talks were progressing;
never invited them to their homes and all of a sudden all
of this has started. They are a bunch of dishonest people.

I will now give you the facts. With a burden of $7.9
million and Barbados being theonlycountrywhichhas been
able to balance its budget, I see this money disappearing
through the eddoes, as the hon. senior member for St.
Peter would say, instead of being used in the employment
of the people of this country. The people must have had
some confidence in the good sense of the government. The
people who have elected us to power have expressed their
desires and aspirations. It is not necessaryto make a long
introduction. "The Chairman said that he understood that
"until Her Majesty's Government would give a clear in-
"dication of the financial assistance it was prepared to
"give, Barbados would not be prepared todiscuss the Des-
"patch from the Secretary of State for the Colonies in re-
"lation to the Draft Federal Scheme." Paragraph 18 at
page 4 of the same Report shows that "the Premier of
"Barbados said that there appeared to be some uncertainty
"as regards the form of association which was required,
"whether federal or unitary, and that the Government of
"Barbados would consider the position when this was made
"clear." At paragraph 22" the ChiefMinister of Montserrat
"complimented the Premier of Barbados on the eloquent
"statement which he made to the effect that the Regional
"Council of Ministers could not entirely ignore the claims
"of the Government of Antigua. With this he was in com-
"plete agreement. On the other hand, he wished it placed on
"record that they could not agree that the failure of the
"British Government to state the quantum of financial aid
"was the reason why they had not federated. He considered
"it paradoxical that they could clamour for independence
"and at the same time insist on knowing the quantum of
"financial assistance bef.oe-they could become indepen-
"dent." "In his opinion, the British Government could not
"state the amount of aid which it was willing to provide,
"until it knew the kind of Federation which it was being
"asked to support."

That was the same Mr. Bramble who signed a formal
statement saying that the Government of Montserrat is pre-
pared to resume the same exercise when the British Gov-
ernment gave an undertaking that it was prepared to relieve
him of income tax.
8.00 p.m.

Before I sit down, and in conclusion of my address
before the motion for suspension of the sitting, I think it
is best that I should just read this paragraph:-

"At this stage, the Premier of Barbados handed to
the Chairman a statement with a request that he should
read it to the Conference, The Shatement reads as follows:-
"PROPOSED EAST CARIBBEAN FEDERATION"
The Cabinet concluded that the Leader of the Bar-
bados Delegation should at the appropolate time state the
position of the Government of Barbados as follows:-

(i) that on the general principle of the desirability
of an East Caribbean Federation, there was no change in
this Government's position as expressed some three years
ago;
(iI) that one of the contributing factors to the present
state of disagreement and indecision among the seven ter-
ritories was the continued failure of the United Kingdom
Government to state in unequivocal terms the quantum of
capital finance which it was prepared to make available
to the Federation for the long overdue development of the
constituent territories;











Oii) that any further discussions on proposals for
the establishment of an East Caribbean Federation woul d
be dependent on the willingness of the United Kingdom
Government to state its intentions with regard to (i)
above."

I just want to say, Mr. DeputySpeaker, that this was
a unanimous decision of the Regional Councilof Ministers
as far back as 1963, and itwasparticularly important for
Barbados to know. It would be immaterial to Montserrat
because they cared for none of these things. Their sub-
stance is to fall like manna from Heaven. They could af-
ford, when they are not collecting one-fifth of the money
needed for their normal administrative requirements, to
adopt a bombastic attitude and tellthe BritishGovernment
that they are withdrawing fromthe Federal exercise un-
less they relieve them from paying income tax. When you
are in that fortunate position, you are not going to be con-
cerned, because you will not have topay somebody else's
debt; somebody will be always paying yours. He could af-
ford to ask what is all this talk about asking the British
Government how much money they were going to give.

Somewhere inthis documentwhichis the White Paper,
you will see my summing up of that situation which Is
found in paragraph 108 on page 47. It reads as follows:-

"The submission we do not want to have is a blind
submission to a constitutional form without the assurance
thattlie people of this island will not become the holders
in due course of a dishonoured promissory note."

Why should I use that expression "a dishonoured pro-
missory note"? We had made unanimous Resolutions. The
Government of Barbados, as I said before, told them that
something had to be done, and Mr. DuncanSandys made a
statement inwhichhe saidthathewas not buying any Fed-
eration. All the time we were insisting because we were
the people who had to lose, because it is true that a Gov-
ernment usually honours the commitments of a previous
Government, so that whether it was a Conservative or
Labour Government in England, one would expect any
commitment entered into would be met and honoured; but
as neither one of the Governments was prepared to make
any commitment, therefore a fortiori neither the Conser-
vative or Labour Party was prepared to make any state-
ment on financial aid for the setting up of the Federation
like the system they set up in Southern Rhodesia.

We have been unnecessarily harsh on the PrimeMin-
ister of Southern Rhodesia because'this is a system that
the British Government never complained about as long
as they were getting copper and so on, and things were
going their way. They have never complained to any of
the previous Prime Ministers, including Sir Roy Welen-
sky. I was at the Prime Ministers' Conference in 1962,
and the issue of Southern Rhodesia was never discussed
to disenfranchise the 4 million Africans. All these are
the effects of Colonialism. They will set up a system
which is to your detriment; it has a debilitating effect on
your economy; and when you ask how they are going to
rectify the situation, they tell you theywillgive it sympa-
thetic consideration. Whether we call that buying a pig in
a poke or whether we call it becoming the holders in due
course of a dishonoured promissory note, a promissory
note is dishonoured when there are no funds to meet it or
they stop payment at the Bank.

Mr Deputy Speaker, I will read paragraph 28 of the
Minutes of the same meeting which are now being dis-
closed for the first time. Never have Itreated the House
with the discourtesy of saying anything. Ihavebeen hold-
ing my ammunition in public, because this is a matter for
the Houseof Assembly. Why did theynothold public meet-
ings in 1962 when we were holding the discussions and
splash it all over the newspapers that this would curtail
our projects such as the School Meals programme and
the East Coast Road. One of thedeclarationswe made in
our Manifesto was that Barbados was going for indepen-
dence, but they now say that we have closed our minds to
any further association. We have not closed our minds up


to now; only a foolwouldtothat. We are not the residual
repositories of all wisdom of mankind from now until
eternity.

In paragraph 28 I said that "the House of Commons
had stated the precise amount of financial aid to be given
"to a small territory like Malta before that territory
"gained its independence. On the break up of the East
"African Federation, the House of Commons had been
"informed that the British Government would provide
"a large sum of money to ensure that the British Inves-
"tors would not lose their money" 278 million. The
"Government of Barbados had decided that it would not
"go to London before all of them had reached complete
"agreement on the establishment of a Federation, and
"unless and until the Secretary of State had stated the
"quantum of financial assistance thatwould begiven. He
"could not understand the present reluctance of the Brit-
"ish Government in the light of its past performance,
"Sir Stephen Luke suggested that the next meeting
"of the Regional Council of Ministers should takeplace in
"the West Indies and be attended by the Secretary of State,
"and that at that meeting the Secretary of State could
"make known the amount of aid which hewas prepared to
"give.
"The Premier of Barbados said that it was not ne-
"cessary for the Secretary of State to come to the West
"Indies since he could communicate his decision. Here-
"ferred to the agency which was to be set up by the Bri-
"tish Government to examine the economic requirements
"of the area, and wondered whether the establishment of
"the Mission was contingent on their decision to form a
"Federation. He said that the territories would need aid
"whether or not there was a Federation. There was no
"point in saying that if certain features were included in
"the Constitution they would get aid, but otherwise they
"would not get aid. The main object of establishing the
"Mission must be to make recommendations concerning
"the requirements of the area."

In paragraph 32 "the Premier of Barbados said that
"the Barbados Cabinet's decision which had been read out:
"to them by the Chairman was precisely what the Re-
"gional Council of Ministers at the Seventh Meeting held
"in Antigua had stated in unambiguous terms. The posi-
"tions of the Barbados Government was that the Secretary
"of State had projected aConstitution inwhichthe power
"to raise external loans would be in the hands of the
"Federal Government, Consequently, the Federal Gov-
"ernment would have the power to tellthe Barbados Gov-
"ernment that the time was not appropriate for it to
"raise loans to carry out its development plans. The Bar-
"bados Government must therefore know the sources
"from which it was going to receive loans or grants. If
"his Government was going to change its unfettered
"right to go to the London market, it could only.do so if
"the British Government discharged its responsibilities
"by letting his Government knowwhat alternative sources
"it could look to. It was not in the interest of the people
"of Barbados for the Government of Barbados to commit
"an act of blind faith in the charity of the British Gov-
"ernment.
8.10 p.m.

Paragraph 44."The Chief Minister of St. Vincent
"said that the question of finance has always loomed
"largely in their discussion and he was therefore sur-
"prised to observe that the stand taken by the Barbados
"Government should be viewed with suspicion. The British
"Government's statements on the amount of financial aid
"had always been equivocal. They said thattheaid would
"not be less than what they were then receiving in the
"form ofgrant-in-aid but that formula had been complete-
"ly unacceptable too. He was therefore in agreement with
"the Premier of Barbados to press the British Govern-
"ment for a reply as to the amount of financial aid which
"they could hope to receive,"

Mr. Deputy Speaker, if you give me two minutes I
would quote this part of my address onthis much contro-













versial meeting, I was, Sir, amazed to read that a member
of the legal profession was discussing the Tenth Meeting
of the Regional Council of Ministers when he did not, le-
gally or otherwise, have access to the document from
which I am now reading. This is the kind of arrogance
which you get in this community. How can anybody dis-
cuss the Tenth Meeting of the Regional Council of Min-
isters when he was not in receipt or did not have access
to the documents of that meeting?

On page 10, paragraph49, I "quoted from paragraph
"15 of the despatch of the 14th September, 1953 to the
"Secretary of State from the Chairman of the Regional
"Council of Ministers, which appeared on page 41 on the
"published draft Federal Scheme as follows:-

"The conference unanimously endorsed a request that
"financial assistance on the scale envisaged in Dr.
"O'Loughlin's Economic Survey be made available and
"that no conference to settle the details of a constitution
"for an independent Federation be held until satisfactory
"assurances about the quantum and durationof assistance
"from Her Majesty's Government had been obtained."

In paragraph 50 I "asked the Conference to note
"that the present Barbados stand was a reiteration of a
"unanimous decision reached by the Regional Council of
"ministers at its Seventh Meeting in September, 1963,
"which decision had been communicated to theSecretary
"of State."
Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER left the Chair and lMr.
SPE4KER took the Chair.
"The Chairman referred to the Secretary of State's
"telegram of the 26th February, 1964, in reply to the
despatchh from which the Premier of Barbados had
"quoted, and which appeared on page 43 of the published
"iDraft Federal Scheme: in which the Secretary of State
"had said that if Federation could be brought about on
"satisfactory terms, British aid would continue, and that
"over the first five years of Federation, the amount
"would not be less than the territories were together
"receiving from Britain at present. The Premier of Bar-
"bados remarked that that meant absolutely nothing to
"Barbados since Barbados was not in receipt of any
"grant-in-aid." In paragraph 55 "The Premier of Bar-
"bados said that the Regional Council of Ministers was
"aware that he had a mandate from the people of Bar-
"bados to go to independence, either within or without a
"Federation. If it was found impossible to form a Fed-
"eration, Barbados would have no alternative but topro-
"ceed to independence alone." In paragraph 57 "the
"Premier of Barbados said that he was not prepared to
"discuss the Secretary of State's despatchbecause of the
"new situation created by the withdrawal of Antigua, and
"because he felt that publicityoughtto be given to the new
"situation that had arisen."

In paragraph 61 that is on page 12 of the record -
I stated that "no conference to settle the details of Con-
"stitution should be held until the quantum of financial
"assistance to be given by Her Majesty's Government was
"known. The Government of Barbados was prepared to
"accept the White Paper as a basis for Federation, but
"they were not prepared to go to London until they had
"assurance of financial assistance.

"At that stage, Hon. J. M. D. Bousquet remarked
that this was a "smart alec" attitude."


That was a decision made in 1963- a Cabinet decision.
It was printed by Senator Ward and handed to the meeting in
printed form. Here was a Government trying to bring the
people out of the throes of Colonialism. Here was a Gov-
ernment that was fighting Mr. Maudling over giving us a
dishonoured promissory note because I was told in 1962
that the British Government thought that they would have
eot rid of them by 1962,


I was also told that the British Government thought
that they had got rid of the Leeward and the Windward
Islands and it was agreed that they should be palmed off and
certain people go to the House of Lords.

That is the only thing they wanted. In those days, in
1961, as late as that in the history of mankind, there were
to be peers in the House of Lords, rewarded for relieving
the British Government of their responsibility to the
islands.;8.20 p.m.

As a matter of fact, the expression which he used was
that they would give sympathetic consideration after we had
established the Federation. The rumour is being disclosed.
"The Premier of Barbados objectedtothat remarkand re-
quested the Chairman to ask Mr. Bousquet to withdraw this
remark."

The Leader of the Opposition has asked me to speak
up because sometimes he cannot hear me. I usually speak
more quietly when I am angry. When I am angry nobody
knows. It is not that I lowermy voice because I do not want
people to hear what I am saying; I lower my voice so as to
control myself. "Mr. Bousquet withdrew fromthe meeting
but rejoined the meeting within a few minutes whereupon
the Premier of Barbados drew the Chairman's attention
to Mr. Bousquet's reappearance."

They are like boys in the form; they have not done any
homework. I implore them to do their homework because it
was an important debate. I discussed the matter with him
in 1964; this was a Cabinet decision, the decision of the
Regional Council of Ministers in Antigua. If people come
out and tell lies I can refute the statements which they
have made. The Paper which I presented at the Regional
Council of Ministers was checked by Senator Ward and to
make abundantly sure that I did not deviate from the Cabi-
net's decision, Mr. Ward had it typed and presented it to
me and said: "Here is the Cabinet's decision." The only
disagreement I had with Senator Ward isthathe wanted me
to give it up right away; but I wanted to hear what the
others said. I understand that he went out and telephoned
some of his friends. I am reading from the Cabinet's de-
cision. It reads as follows:-

"The Premier informed the Cabinet that themostim-
"portant issue to be discussed at the Tenth Meeting of the
"Regional Council of Ministers which would be on Monday
"26th April, related to the proposals for the establishment
"of an East Caribbean Federation. The Secretary of State
"had now made known the views of the United Kingdom Gov-
"ernment on the Draft Federal Scheme, and since then the
"Government of Antigua had declared its intention to dis-
"continue discussions on a proposed Federationwhichwas
"based on the Draft Federal Scheme or on the Secretary
"of State's Proposals.

"The Premier asked the Cabinet to indicate what
"should be the attitude of the Barbados Delegation in fur-
"therance of this matter.
"The Cabinet concluded that the Leader of the Bar-
"bados Delegation should at the appropriate time state
"the position of the Government of Barbados as follows:-

Mr. Speaker, I have already read out the decision
which I handed to the Chairman of the Regional Council of
Ministers which is a body comprised of the Chief Ministers
of the Windward and Leeward Islands and the Premier of
Barbados. We should not have anybody but the Chief Min-
isters at this stage. Sir Arthur Lewis had expressed the
view that it is a great mistake to take anybody in there but
the Chief Ministers. The Chief Ministers make decisions.
There was a great tragedy and mistake to bring in others
on the side lines. Sometimes people like Mr. Bousquet cause
more trouble than the Chief Ministers themselves. The
Hon. Leader of the Opposition would know to whom I am
referring because he had to deal with that person. This is
the Regional Council of the Chief Ministers andthe Prem-
ier of Barbados because that was what was agreed to at












Marlborough House. We brought people in as advisers.
This decision was dictated by Mr. Ward himself and I am
quite sure that it was delivered to me by Mr. Ward. He
brought it in to me printed. I had a copy which he did not
know. I had my copy: so I put my copy in my Box and never
gave him back his copy. Apparently otherpeoplewere privy
to that decision because it was communicated by people who
had not only drafted it but who had been sworn to secrecy.
8.30 p.m.

Mr. SPEAKER: The Hon. Premier gave an intimation
of the last submission by the Government to the Colonial
Office. We will have no more submission made about that.

Mr. MOTTLEY: Talking about the TenthMeeting of the
Regional Council of Ministers, the Hon. Premier referred
to the fact that he had no doubtthat I knew something about
the Cabinet decision. I want to assure him that this is the
first time I am hearing anything about this meeting and of
these arrangements, and I am paying great attention to them
now.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: The hon. member has made his
point, but this is not what he was telling the general public
during the past two months. He was telling them he knew
everything that went on.

Mr. MOTTLEY: That is absolutely untrue.

Mr. SPEAKER: On what has the hon. senior member
for the City risen?

Mr. MOTTLEY: I have risen on a point of order. The
hon. member said that I was telling the public that I knew
everything that was going on.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: The hon. member has made his
point. If I may continue, Sir, Mr. Ward forgot three little
words like "I love you" "attheappropriate time." This
is what we had decided in London at a Conference with the
Premier of Barbados andthe ChiefMinisters. It has no legal
status; it is a series of discussions between Heads of Gov-
ernments; it is not a dialogue between representatives of
the Legislature of Constituent territories. It was a con-
tinuing exercise by the Heads of Government, and I being
the only Minister there who had a mandate, never derogated
one iota from that mandate.

Now, Sir, we have heard the first part. This is not
found in the proceedings of the Regional Council of Minis-
ters and you will see the reason why.

"Cabinet further concluded that if further discussions
"towards the formation of an East Caribbean Federation
"appeared to be either unlikely or fruitless, the attitude
"of the Barbados Government towards those matters on
"which there was now joint action by all the territories
"should be as follows:-

(a) the Barbados Government would be unable to
"continue to support joint representation overseaswiththe
"other Governments;

(b) the Barbados Government is in a position to es-
"tablish its own offices in the UnitedKingdom and in Canada
"without any additional financial outlay;

(c) the Barbados Government would be prepared
"to undertake overseas representation on any matter on
"behalf of any East Caribbean territory which so desired
"on a contributory basis."

The next Item is headed "Judiciary".

"The Barbados Government should stress the need for
"the replacement of the present unsatisfactory arrange-
"ments for the British Caribbean Court of Appeal by a per-
"manent West Indian Court of Appealwhich would include
"British Guiana".


This is a part of the Cabinet decision which was not
disclosed then and is now being disclosed for the first
time after I had communicated with the Secretary of State
on the results and the misrepresentations of this meeting.
I have a document which I will send to some of my friends
who-are expert writers on constitutional law, because I ex-
plained to the Secretary of State the improprieties which
had taken place and what should be the position of a Gov-
ernment which is placed in the invidious position of per-
haps being guilty of a breach of the Official Secrets Act if it
disclosed matters which had been erroneously, falsely and
maliciously misrepresented by former members of the
Government.

These were the Minutes of the meeting held at Gov-
ernment Headquarters on Saturday, 24th April, 1965 at
9.45 a.m. "Present were:

"Hon. E. W. Barrow, M.P., Minister of Finance;
"Hon. J. C. Tudor, M.P., Minister of Education;
"Hon C. E. Talma, M.P., Minister of Communications and
"Works;
"Hon. G. G. Fergusson, M.P., Minister of Agriculture and
"Fisheries;.
"Senator Hon. H. A. Vaughan, Q.C., O.B.E., Attorney Gen-
"eral;
"Senator E. R. L. Ward, Minister without portfolio."

Two members of the Cabinet were not present:-

"Hon. W. A. Crawford, M.P., Minister of Trade and
"Labour on account of family bereavement;
"Hon. A. DaC. Edwards, M.P.,MinisterofHealth,Housing,
"Local Government and Community Development out of
"the island."

SUSPENSION OF SITTING

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move that
this Sitting be now suspended for three quarters of an hour.

Mr. SPEAKER: Has the Hon. and Learnedmemberfor
St. John given way, or has he finishedhis speech?

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: The hon. member hasgivenway.

Hon. C, E. TALMA: I beg to second the motion.

The question was put and resolved in the affirmative

without division, and Mr. SPEAKER suspended the Sit-
ting accordingly.

8.40 p.m.
On resumption,
Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker, will you ask that
the Bell be rung?

Mr. SPEAKER: Let the Bell be rung

The Bell was rung and a quorum obtained.

Mr. SPEAKER: When the sitting was suspended, the
hon. and learned senior member for St. John was addressing
the Chair.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, before the sus-
pension of the sitting, I was dealing with the document
which had been prepared of the meetings of the Regional
Council of Ministers and I explained how much, to my sur-
prise, various persons who have reasons best known to
themselves are opposed to something which is a foregone
conclusion political independence and the emancipation
of the people of this Island and profess to have so much
knowledge on what took place at the last meeting of the
Regional Council of Chief Ministers.

The Hon. Leader of the Opposition admitted that he
heard these things from the horse's mouth. My advice to


I












people who find themselves in the same position which he
finds himself in that is, induced to take part in a public
discussion is that he should remember the words of the
Psalmist David: "Lord, I am not highminded, I have no
proud looks. I do not exercise myself in great matters which
are too high for me."

The hon. senior member for the City gets up in public
and gives the general public the impression that he has
inside information which he ha himself admitted today that
he does not have. Therefore, he is not discharging his re-
sponsibility to the electorate of the Island. He may not have
said so in precise terms, but he gave the impression to the
Press of the Island a Press which has always been op-
posed to the oppressed masses of the people of this island
that at one time itwasthoughtthatthe Barbados Labour
Party was fighting for the emancipation of the people of
this country.

Sir, I will now continue my discussion on the Tenth
Meeting of the Regional Council of Ministers and the only
authentic discussion that took place. I had reached the
stage where I explained to the hon. members of This Place
that contrary to popular belief, the meeting of the Regional
Council of Ministers did not break up. The meeting of the
Regional Council of Ministers held on the 26th, 27th, 28th
and 29th May, 1965, moved like the political life of many
members on the opposite side peacefully towards its
close.

In paragraph 46, after I drew to the attention of the
Chairman of the Regional Council of Ministers, who in-
cidentally is the Governor of Barbados, who incidentally
also was insulted by the Hon. J.M. Bousquet, a Minister of
the newly elected government of St. Lucia, the member who
was editor of the Draft Federal Scheme, gave his synopsis
of the opinions which had been expressed by Governments
from time to time in ourthree anda half years of dis-
cussion.

Mr. Bousquet was for some time Minister without
portfolio. We had a plethora of them in the West Indian
Federation which Dr. Williams described as the worst
Government in the history of mankind. I am not prepared
to take part in any Government worse than that.

Now, the independent territories of Trinidad and Ja-
maica and the territory of Antigua was also represented
by a Minister without portfolio. None of this would have
been vouchsafed to these Federal exercises.


The whole discussion centred around this meeting and
this item on the Agenda. I should liketo explain that there
were several items on the Agenda, but it was a question
of economic assistance which was desired from the Bri-
tish Government. Montserrat and St. Lucia adopted a re-
calcitrant attitude. They did not know whether theywanted
a Federation. As a matter of fact, when we were in Trini-
dad in 1962, Mr. John Compton, who is now Chief Minister
of St. Lucia, was in the Oppositionand he sought an audi-
ence with Mr. Maudling and in this audience which he had
with Mr. Maudling, it was published, not only in the Press
of Trinidad but of St. Lucia, that Mr. John Compton's
party was not in favour of Federation. They were only
in favour of a unitary state. At least, I would say this,
Mr. John Compton was entirely consistent on the matter
and Mr, Bousquet saw nothing inconsonant withthe party's
policy when he destroyed the Draft Federal Scheme in
St. Lucia.

There was a debate which followed the Speech from
the Throne, and in the despatch, the Administrator of
St. Lucia stated that the Government of St. Lucia did not
commit itself to joining the Federation,

These territories have never been infavour of Fed-
eration. Various sortees were made before the Tenth
Meeting of the Regional Council of Ministers to form a
unitary state, the only islands nottakingpart in that were
Barbados, St. Kitts-Nevis-and-Anguilla.


What I would like to make clear at this stage is that
at the Tenth Meeting of the Regional Council of Ministers,
there was an Agenda on which was the consideration of
the Secretary of State's despatch saying thattheSecretary
of State in his wisdom did not accept the Antigua Govern-
ment's proposals. I saw that Mr. Bird wouldhave no fur-
ther say in the Federal exercise and as a result of the
Secretary of State making this quite clear, I thought that
Barbados should not have attended that meeting either.
I am not going to sit down and allow the public to be mis-
led and the impression given that the meeting was broken
up as a result of the behaviour of the member of the Gov-
ernment's delegation, being myself.

In paragraph 62, Mr. Bousquet made a remark about
a Cabinet decision and in paragraph 63 onpage 12 I said:
"I objected to the remark."

The Chairman did not ask Mr. Bousquet to withdraw
the remark.

I was doing no more than the Hon. Leader of the Op-
position did when he asked me to withdraw the remark
that I said he indulged in Machiavellian manoeuvres and
I withdrew the remark,

In paragraph 63, it is stated: "The Premier of Bar-
"bados objected to that remark and requested the Chair-
"man to ask Mr. Bousquettowithdrawthis remark. Mr,
"Bousquet withdrew from the meeting, but rejoined the
"meeting within a few minuted, whereupon the Premier
"of Barbados drew the Chairman's attention to Mr.
"Bousquet's reappearance. The Chairman said that when
"people were in debate, from timt to time words were
"used which were unfortunate as in this case, but he
"thought that if all members agreed to conducttheir dis-
"cussions in a more orderly manner they would get on
"very much better. He said that theywere not in the habit
S"of conducting the meetings of the Regional Council of
"ministers in accordance with strict parliamentary pro-
"cedure. The Premier of Barbados said that he had no
"alternative but to withdraw from the meeting, but before
"doing so, he would ask to have it placed on record that
"the Hon. J. M. D. Bousquet had made a remark which
qhe considered offensive, and that he had asked the
"Chairman to ask Mr. Bousquet to withdraw his remarks,
"but that the Chairman had failed to do so.
9.45 p.m.

"As from that moment therefore the Barbados Gov-
"ernment would be attending the meeting purely as ob-
"servers. No opinion could' be canvassed in his absence
"from any member of his delegation concerning the views
"of the Government of Barbados.

"67. The Premier of Barbados then withdrew from
"the meeting at 12.20 p.m. Mr. E. S. S. Burrowes also
"withdrew.

"68. The Chief Minister of St. Lucia then announced
"that he and Hon. J. M. D. Bousquet would be returning
"to St. Lucia early on Thursday 29th April, but that in
"his absence he was authorising Hon. George Mallet to
"make decisions on behalf oftheGovernmentofSt. Lucia,

"69. The Meeting then adjourned at12.55p.m. until
"9.30 a.m., on Thursday 29th April, 1965."

Let us accept that what the hon. senior member for
the City says is true. How could he and the members of
his party accuse me of walking out and breaking up a
meeting when the facts are as I have mentioned? It was
the first time that we were discussing whether or not we
should have a debate on the Secretary of State for the
Colonies' despatch and we decided that we should not,
Our despatch dealt with the Government of Antigua as if
we were discussing that colony and not the Federation,
They were told that we must Federate first and then we
must pay for their responsibility. The meeting was con-
vened on the next day and the Items on the Agenda were


I











discussed.There was no acrimonious atmosphere, and
subsequently in Trinidad Mr. J. W. D. Bousquet moved
a Vote of Thanksto me formy Chairmanship at a meet-
ing of the Regional Shipping Council at which it was said
that never had they had a meeting conducted in the way
in which I had discharged my duties.

There are certain vicious people in the community
who will be dealt with by the general public when the time
comes, because they are preparedto distort even the facts
of recorded history for their own personalends. The Re-
gional Council of Ministers was formally reconvened and
this is what the Chairman said:-

"The Chairman therefore suggested that the Council
"should adjourn discussion on the subject for the time
"being. He was unfortunately not in a position to say
"when the Barbados deliberations would be completed
"but he felt sure that there would de a desire to com-
"plete them as soon as possible.

"The Council agreed under the prevailing circum-
"stances to adjourn discussions on the Draft Federal
"Scheme and on the Secretary of State CircularDespatch
"121/65of 22nd March, 1965 until a date to be announced.

"Sir Stephen Luke withdrew from the meeting at
9.45 p.m."

After this several Items were dealt with:-

Paper No. RCM. 1/65 Estimates of Expenditure of
Eastern Caribbean Commission in the United Kingdom
for the year 1965-66:

Paper No. RCM. 3/65 Legal Aid for West Indians
in Britain.

Paper No. RCM. 2/65 West Indies Student Centre
London, Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure 1965-66.

Paper No. RCM. 4/65 Vacation leave for former
employees of Barbados Immigrant Liaison Services:

Paper No. RCM. 9/65 Responsibility for accumula-
tive vacation leavefor Assistant to the Acting Commis-
sioner, Commission in Canada.

Paper No. R.C.M. 22/65 Future of the Regional
Research Centre after 1966:

Paper No. RCM. 5/65 Chairman's Visit to the
United Kingdom Settlement of Air Passage:

Paper No. RCM. 6/65 Estimates of Expenditure
for the year 1965-66 for Commission in Canada:

Paper No. RCM. 7/65 Commission in Canada -un-
authorised expenditure:

Paper No. RCM. 11/65 Leasing of Additional space
adjoining existing premises of Commission in Canada.

Paper No. RCM. 12/65 Financial Assistance re
Hospital and Medical Expenses:

Paper No. RCM. 13/65 Eastern CaribbeanMarket-
ing Mission to Canada:

Paper No. RCM. 14/65 Renewal of contract of act-
ing Commissioner, commission in Canada.

Any other business

(1) International Development Association

The Chairman promised to circulate to Governments
information concerning the terms on which I.D.A. loans
could be made and the projects for which loans might be
made available.


(2) British Caribbean Court of Appeal.

In this matter the Council decided that contribution
should be sought for the six month period July to Decem-
ber, 1965.

(III) Treatment of Nurses in London TrainingHospital.

The Chairman informed the Council that he had received
a letter dated 26th February, 1965, from the Acting Com-
missioner, Commission in the United Kingdom, stating
that the Communist Party in Great Britain was requesting
information concerning the treatment of Coloured Nurses
in London Training Hospitals and that he had instructed
the Acting Commissioner to inform the Communist Party
that the Eastern Caribbean Commission in the United
Kingdom was not in a position to offer any comments on
the matter until a policy decision had been reached by the
Regional Council of Ministers.

The Council authorised the Chairman to state that,
as a matter of policy, no information should be provided
by the Eastern Caribbean Commission for any political
party on matters of that kind.

(IV) Regional Education Conference 1965.

These matters were also dealt with.

"The Chairman" in paragraph 75 of the Minutes of
the 29th April, 1965 the day after the meeting was
supposed to have been broken up, according to the people
on the other side "thanked all delegations for their
"co-operation, and at paragaph 76 The Chief Minister
"of Montserrat paid tribute to the Chairman's patience
"and calmness and said that he had exhibited outstanding
"qualities. The meeting was then adjourned sine die at
"1.40 p.m. on Thursday 29th April, 1965."

A Press release was issued on the 29th April, 1965
concerning the proceedings of that meeting. These Press
Reports were very brief, but that was not any fault of
mine. It is completely erroneous for anybody to suggest
that the Government of Barbados had broken up any
Federal discussion. The Government of Barbados, long
before this meeting, discussed what should be done
under the doctrine of collective responsibility to the
Cabinet by which Cabinet Ministers are bound.
9.55 p.m.
Quite apart from that, I know that the hon. senior
member for Bridgetown does not accept constitutional
conventions, because these must be matters of expediency
and not of practice. I hear him sniggering when I talk of
collective responsibility in the Cabinet. It does not suit
the hon. senior member for Bridgetown to have Cabinet
secrecy or collective responsibility of the Cabinet, because
under that system, he is not in a position to run the Gov-
ernment from outside of the Cabinet. He is therefore not
addicted to the constitutional niceties which we in ourVic-
torian straight jackets and our exposure to the English legal
system and to constitutional practice inWestern democracy
are likely to observe. I envy the hon. member Mr. Speaker,
for the licence which he can exercise in matters of grave
importance to the people of this country, and for the flex-
ibility with which his political career has been conducted
and the success which he has so far achieved; but it is
likely to be short lived.

I will return Mr. Speaker, to discussion on the Pream-
ble to the Resolution which we are discussingtoday. I have
read paragraph (c) in the Preamble which states that the
discussions have proved fruitless through the stated un-
willingness of the Goernment of Montserrat to join a
Federation which did not include Antigua. I have quoted
directly from the Chief Minister of Montserrat as recorded
in the Minutes of the Tenth Meeting of the Repnal Coun-
cil of Ministers which is the last meeting which has been
held up to now. I have made reference to the unsatisfactory
proposals made by the Government of St. Lucia which that
Government has never withdrawn supported bytheGov-












eminent of Dominica, for the disposal of Federal surplus
Revenues.

We have enumerated, Sir, several good and sufficient
reasons why the Government of Barbados should not engage
in protracted and fruitless exercises. We have done more
than any other Government in the region for closer associa-
tion. You will see that in this very Resolution we have
expressed our determination to pursue this objective, but
at the same time this Government is under no obligation
to be pushed around by anybody either inside or outside
of Barbados. This Government has to make decisions,
and there are two things I should like to say. I went down
to St. Lucia in August, 1964, shortly after the new Govern-
ment was elected, to congratulate themontheir victory and
to brief them a task which I took upon myself on the
state of the Federal negotiations and to invite them to do
their homework, because I did not know the Chief Minister
yesterday or week before last, like some of the hon. mem-
bers on the other side. I understand that one or two of my
former Ministers who completely ignored the Chief Min-
ister of St. Lucia when he paid visits to this territory
found themselves watching and besetting his office pre-
mises in St. Lucia during the past few weeks. I know Mr.
Compton as far back as 1946, and this year would make
twenty years that we have become associated. On the
night Castries burnt down, I was lying down reading on a
carpet in a flat occupied by him; he was inside playing
cards. I went inside and notified him along with some
other friends of mine that there had been a fire in St.
Lucias so as the senior stateman, not in age, but consti-
tutionally, I felt that someone should set his mind at rest.
I spoke to Mr. Compton because he had made a statement
prior to the elections on economic collaboration and not
necessarily constitutional changes per se, and I said to
myself that there at least is a person who is not prepared
to accept the second-hand notions of the BritishGovernment
on how we should proceed, on not being treated like a child
by officials in the Colonial Office, and who is prepared
to examine the problems of the West Indies and the econo-
mic solutions which we may have available.

I went to St. Lucia and spoke to Mr. Compton. I told
him that I was toying with the idea of a Free Trade Area
in order to get something going. I explained to him that if
in the former Federation we had started with a Customs
Union and Free Trade Area, the Federation would have
survived its constitutional arrangements, because it would
be impossible to unscramble the intricate mechanism of a
Customs Union and a Free Trade Area. Mr. Compton
agreed with me but made one reservation. He said to me
that there would have to be some kind of transfer of devel-
opment funds from the richer territories meaning
Barbados and the other two territories that I was having
discussions with at the time the Government of St. Lucia
and the Government of St. Vincent because they are
the two territories closer to Barbados. We in the Govern-
ment were having misgivings about the possibility of a
federal system of Government being either workable,
practical or possible in the future. I did not really under-
stand what the Chief Minister of St. Lucia was driving at
when he said this. I really honestly did not understand the
enormity of the suggestion. It was subsequently revealed. It
did not dawn on my consciousness atthetime: so I felt we
had accomplished something. We prepared a Joint release
and Mr. Compton came out in favour of a Free Trade Area
with the reservation about development funds which he did
not enlarge on. I then went over the same morning to St.
Vincent and spoke to the Chief Minister Mr. Ebenezer
Joshua, who had been an ancient crusader in the Federal
cause, and Mr. Joshua agreed with the proposals within
Mr. Compton's reservation. As I said before, the Govern-
ment of St. Lucia tore up the Draft Federal Scheme because
it did not do anything for St. Lucia. They said they could
not agree. They said they could not agree that the revenues
from import duties should be refunded to the respective
Governments on a derivation basis. This is Just a sentence
I use to explain something which we, who have been en-
gaged in the exercise, took for granted as significant to
the members of the general public.


The Government, Sir, has to be supported some way
or the other. The Government of Barbados has full charge
of its affairs in Government, and the only thing which we
do not manage now are our external relations. We do this
through the British Governments and we pay the British
Government who performs for us. haveto pay the Ambassa-
dor in Brazil for distributing the pensions which are paid
to Barbadians down there. A large sum of moeny is paid
to the British Embassy in Cuba for Barbadians there. We
pay money for hospitalisation in Panama just now.
10.05 p.m.

Tha: shows the entire dishonesty of people who come
in here. They know that we come in here, year after year,
and we manage our own affairs realistically, in the political
sense of the term.

As regards our external affairs, we manage them in
conjunction with some other Governments. There are
nine or ten territories and in some of the external affairs,
Barbados pays as much as 50 percent. Along with that, we
pay for out own external affairs in Montreal, Canada.
We run an independent office for the Tourist and Develop-
ment Boards in Toronto and we have a similar institution
in New York and pay for every single thing; and if the
British Government sends a telegram on our behalf, we
pay for it.

The British Government never made any decision
relating to the external affairs on our behalf. If there is
an international convention, the British Government asks
us if we want to be associated with it. That is what they
call external affairs.

There is one important matter which I think we cannot
ignore. If the British Government decided to go to war with
France, let us say, we would be involved because we do not
make any decision for that and it means that very often
the lives of the Barbados citizens can be affected as a
result of some foreign power going to war with the Imperial
Government. They have this authority because of the his-
tory of our association with them.

However, we have a country -and Barbados is our
country and we want to run our own country. No official,
sitting in Whitehall, should have the right because not one of
them is better acquainted with our problems than our own
officials sitting around our desks. Therefore, you will
understand what we are talking about when we have to
correspond with them. Up to today, I have been trying to
get people to understand what I am talking about when I
say what it is to have these highly paid ranking officials
sitting down behind the desks. Themembers of the Opposi-
tion according to their statement prefer to have people
whom they they do not even know rather than to have our
own people. They would not even have some of their own
people in their drawing rooms or offices because of their
social state; they prefer to have these outside officials
managing our external affairs rather than the Government
of Barbados.

Let us be a little more personal. There is one hon.
member on the other side who has not taken part in this
talk that you must have federation and then independence.
Of course, being a schoolmaster he has a lot more
sense than the others. All the rest sitting down over on
the other side have been taking part in public meetings
and this confusion, saying that they prefer independence
within a federation. One member went so far as to say
that we want independence, but we do not want independence
under Barrow. That is the kind of nonsense which they
have said. I have been independent more than all of them
put together, all my life. They are saying: "We prefer
to have an Englishman whom we do not know, who has no
responsibility to Parliament, dictating the life and death
which we of Barbados should live or die rather than to
have any of the representatives of the people in Barbados
who are responsible not only at election time but from
week to week". We are saying that, so complete has been
the victory of Colonialism.












I have enumerated the reasons which we have set out
in this Resolution why we should seek independence on our
own, but I think in fairness to the Chief Minister of St.
Lucia, I should say this.

Mr. Compton said: "We have a number of reservations.
The most important are Income Tax and Customs Union.
We thought that Income Tax should be shared or redis-
tributed not in derivation well, Customs Union should
he distributed not on a derivation basis, but as an equali-
sation grant used to finance certain services for the islands.
So there should be no great disparity in, particularly, the
social services in these Islands."

Mr. Compton did not know the difference between
import duties and Custom Union. Customs Union is a union
of countries with common external tariffs. Although he went
tc the same University as I, he did not know the difference.
The hon. senior member for St. Philip says that Mr.
Compton is a great economic expert, A lot of them got
on platforms without reading this document at all.

Now, the Federal Government must derive its revenue
from the Unit Territories direct taxation which by the
Constitution would be vested in that Government or, as in
the last Federation, by contributions handed out by the
participating Governments.
10.15 p.m.
Mr. Compton said that social services are the indivi-
dual responsibility of the Unit Governments. A Federal
Government must derive its revenue either from direct
taxation which, by the Constitution, would be vested in
that Government or, as in the last Federation, by contri-
bution, the kind of dole or subsistence meted out to the
Central Government, which was undignified. This Govern-
ment existed on a mandatory levy of $9 millionbearing
in mind what it would cost to run the Federal Government
and what duties they would have to perform. The Federal
Government, as we proposed in the Draft Scheme, would
have authority vested in it under the Constitution. It would
have charge of Customs: they would collect all our money
from Customs which would be about $12 million. Under
Mrs. Hicks' proposals, we would have to give them 6597o
When we transfer Customs to them they would have to pay
the Customs Officers which would enure a savings in Bar-
bados. Under Mrs. Hicks' proposals 6510o would be deducted
and 3507 revenue would come to us which would be an addi-
tional burden of $4.9 million on the people of Barbados.
The Financial Secretary together with Dr. O'Loughlin said
that it was unfair to anybody who was in the plan. I have
Mrs. Hicks' Report here, and not one of them has read it.
She and Mr. Compton produced a document trying to shave
the expenses down and Mr. Bird's proposals became rele-
vant; he did not want a trial with it because he was in two
Federal Governments. He had had his experience. In the
light of this experience we proposed to reduce our contri-
bution from more than $13 million to $6.7, that is the Fin-
ancial Secretary, Dr. O'Loughlin and myself.
Mrs. Hicks was completely unrealistic because she
did not realise that $5 million in taxation would start a
revolution. People are now saying all sorts of things
about Federation. The newspapers did not publish the real
material which was released, and the ambitious politicians
who came up like mushrooms overnight did not read Dr.
Carleen O'Loughlin's Report. When I said that external
affairs would cost so much, that was not my projection;
that was the revised version of what Mrs. Hicks said.
Dr. O'Loughlin made a survey of the Economic potential
of Barbados and the rest in 1963 at the request of the
British Government. When the British Government saw
what Dr. O'Loughlin said, the British Government had
to be put under severe pressure by the Governments of
Barbados and Antigua before they published the Report.
They released all the other Reports, and we had to send
them requests for four months in order to get them to
release that Report. There was a Capital requirements of
$373 million over ten years, with Montserrat never getting
out of the grant-in-aid stage. The British Government
refused to say whether they accepted or discarded this
Report. Up to now they have sent down another Mission


and we would go on for another ten years having Missions.
I challenge any of the three Secretaries of State for the
Colonies, Mr, Maudling, Mr. DuncanSandys, Mr. Greenwood
or the Under Secretary, Mr. Fisher, and I now have a
despatch from the present Secretary of State for the
Colonies.

Before I sit down I will read a Message to this House
from the present Secretary of State for the Colonies. Not
one of them with whom I was associated could say that
any statement I made is not true. Here is a paper printed
by Her Majesty's Stationery Office, in 1963 which the British
Government was extremely reluctant to release. It is
Cmd. 1991, Report of the Fiscal Commissioner, Mrs.
Hicks, of Oxford University. This was done at the request
of the British Government; but there was another document
revising Mrs. Hicks' document. Mrs. Hicks' suggestion
was that Barbados should receive grant-in-aid, but she
did not suggest where the rest of the money was to come
from for the support of this superstructure. We pay for
our external affairs; it is not a question of anybody doing
us a favour. We pay for them.
10.25 p.m.
The House approves every year the payments which
we make for our external affairs. Is it asking the Legis-
lature too much to let the formalities be observed and the
proprieties and the constitutional niceties regulated sothat
we can runthese external affairs ourselves inthe same way
that Gambia, Malta and all the other smaller territories of
the Commonwealth are doing today, and who are not afraid
to take their destiny into their ownhands?
We have a document which they have not seen, a docu-
ment prepared at my request by the Head of the Institute of
Social and Economic Research on the full cost of overseas
representation, and I want to quote from that in reply to the
meetings I have been hearing. I have recordings of nearly
all of them and reports of others. I do not attend these
meetings. I do not even attend meetings of my Party when I
am not speaking for several reasons, because as soon as I
appear, everybody will take it for granted that I am sup-
posed to speak. If I went to a meeting tonight after standing
up for six or seven hours, they would expect me to speak,
Has the Hon. Leader of the Oppositionseenthis document?
He should not underestimate people. I am going to enjoin
him that when he sees people with a modicum of common
sense and experience, he should not underestimate them and
think they had a rush of blood to the head.
Now I want to quotethe Reportof the Fiscal Committee
arising out of the Ninth Meeting of the Regional Council of
Ministers. Miss Hicks had prepared something prior to this
meeting and so we set up a Fiscal Committee of all the
Financial Secretaries and Dr. Carleen O'Loughlin, Head of
the Institute of Social and Economic Research of the Eas-
tern Caribbean. Did the Hon. member knowaboutthat? Not
even the Cabinet Ministers knew about this. The Committee
comprised of E. S. S. Burrowes, Financial Secretary of
Barbados; C. A. Sorhaindo, Principal Secretary, Ministry
of Finance, Dominica; N, E. Watty, Establishments Officer,
Dominica: A. Haley Esq., O.B.E. Financial Secretary, St.
Kitts: N. E. Venner, Esq., Financial Secretary, St. Lucia;
C. A. Jacobs, Esq., Financial Secretary, St. Vincent. There
is a document which Dr. O'Loughlinprepared along with the
Financial Secretary of Barbados and myself. I would not
like to say that I did any of the actual writing, but I held
several conferences and meetings to see if we could make
this thing realistic. If I am apersonaccused of being anti-
federationist, I want my head examined, On page 2 of the
additional cost of Overseas Commissions is $271,302.

Now, Mr. Speaker, do you think that all these Financial
Secretaries pulled that figure out of the air? As to the young
and not so young humbugs that we have had befouling the
night air who would like to make people believe that they
have seenthis document, ask which one has seen it. I was
entrusted with the responsibility of this portfolio, and my
Ministers, the ones who are not over-ambitious, are satis-
fied with the way I discharge my duties under that port-
folio, as the Estimates disclose from yeartoyear. I do not
have to look over their shoulders, and they do not have to


YI












look over mine. I prepare the Estimates every year of some
$47 million; so what is a budget of $6 million to prepare?
In the first year that I was in office, we were saddled
with a commitment of back-pay for the Civil Service and a
recurring expenditure of $2.6 million plus a deficit of $1.26
million, and in nine months I made predictions and came out
$17,000 to the good after imposing certain taxation measures
on non-essentials such as beer, cigarettes and rum. What
happened in this country in those days?Therewas a public
hue and cry and outcry initiated by the members on the
opposite side that the Government had just got in and was
taxing the poor people's rum. I can remember the hon.
junior member for St. Joseph practically rolling on the
floor inpain and touching his belly because four cents was
put on rum to pay the policemen and Civil Servants so that
they could put shoes on the feet of their children and send
them to school.
This Report was written by all the Financial Secre-
taries in the area plus Dr. Loughlin who knows more about
the economy of the West Indies than anyone else, and the
Financial Secretary of Barbados who is in a position to
challenge all the Financial Secretaries and the Minister
of Finance in Barbados. But a lot of dishonest people tried
to give the impression that they knew something about it.
Where did they learn to begin to understand the intricacies
of public finance? I do not like to say these things because
I am a modest person, but I am an angry man tonight, be-
cause there are certain people who are trying to sell my
country. Wewent into every single item including uniforms
for chauffers at the different Embassies. I have to send the
money to London to pay for the office there; so I should
know how much it costs. In addition, the High Commis-
sioners of Trinidad and Tobago and Jamaica keep me up
to date on the estimate of whatitis costing them for over-
seas representation. Some members say we must not have
independence because it costs too much money. They did
notsee the document, and they should proceed with caution
and not exercise themselves in matters which are too high
for them because it will prove them dishonest, and I do not
expect a person by virtue of his being a member of the
Legislatureto be an expert on financial matters or any-
thing else. All they have to doisto ask a Government Min-
ister a question, and not assume he iswrong and get up and
abuse him.
Mr. Speaker, I will give the facts and figures, chapter
and verse. On page 2 the additional cost of overseas Com-
missions is $271,302. On page 3, Table E.3 Common
Services Overseas Commission, present cost $228,698. If
you add those two figures together, you get $500,000. In
paragraph 111 Dr. Carleen O'Loughlin in her suggestions
for a fiscal structure for the proposed Eastern Caribbean
Federation estimated the net cost of the federation to Bar-
bados at $1,521,000, and in paragraph 112 the cost of over-
seas commissions for the proposed federation was $500,000.
I want to say that overseas representation for Barbados is
going to cost from year to year what I want it to cost, and
what I consider necessary for the people of Barbados to be
properly represented. It may cost us $200,000 or it may
cost us $2 million; I am not telling youwhatitlsgoingto
cost five years from now, but everything has to be done
within the limitation of our financial resources; that is,
you cut your coat to suit the cloth. She said in paragraph
113 that, assuming overseas representation for Barbados
alone to be on the same scale as for an independent federa-
tion, the cost of federation to Barbados would be $1,021,000
more than the cost of an independent Barbados. This is a
statement of fact from experts appointed by the British
Government to revisethe figures prepared by all the
Financial Secretaries. This document has not been re-
leased. In what position are these dishonest persuaders on
the other side to get up and pontificate on financial matters
they do not understand? The same people who ranted and
raved when I was trying to find money for the debt inherited
from the last Government, are telling the people that Mr.
K. R. Hunte exports $3 million to the otherislandsand not
to mind that they had to pay $4 million in taxes. Thelard
oil lobby, the people who want federation for Barbados at
Roberts Manufacturing Company, are telling the people not
to mind they have to find $4 million.
10.35 p.m.


The Chief Minister of St. Lucia has been insisting, so
is the Chief Minister of Dominl.~a. They say that Barbados
has too many schools and too many roads; so, we would now
have to mark time. Therefore, largely, the Federal Gov-
ernment proposes to collect its revenue from import du-
ties. As soon as they control the Customs Departments they
will require $6.7 million for the Federal expenses and
therefore they should have handed back 6,1Pooftheseduties
to the Government on a derivation basis. That means if they
take $10 million from us, they will keep $3.5 million and
give us $6.5 million. Since they would also relieve us of
some of the expenses, the net cost would be $1.5 million.
They would be controlling the Government of Barbados from
the top to the bottom. People with less experience of demo-
cratic parliament are inveigling and trying to lead us down
the Gadarene slopes to disaster. I toldyouthat I broke out
in cold sweat one morningthis week. I have no compunction
in admitting it. Some people cannot even face the light of
the sun. They also have to disguise their motives behind
dark vision.
Mr. Speaker, you will then appreciate why members of
this Government have every reason to be angry, but we are
trying not to be over-disturbed. This should be a cheerful
occasion; the passing of this Resolution should be a for-
mality; but the record hastobeput straight. This document
was printed in 19A5 and maybe made available for scrutiny
to hon. members but not to be taken away. It is still classi-
fied "In confidence"; yet they can get up on platforms and
disclose certain matters. Either somebody should have been
put in gaol or they were pontificating on something which
they knew nothing about.

I want in fairness to the Chief Minister of St. Lucia to
read some correspondence which passed between me and
him. This is a letter dated 14th October, 1965, which he
wrote to me:-

"My dear Premier,
The newspapers of October 13, 1965 have carried the
text of a resolution purported to be tabled in the House of
Assembly of Barbados by you on October 12, 1965, dealing
with the reasons for the decision of theGovernment of Bar-
bados to withdraw from further discussions on the forma-
tion of a Federation of the Eastern Caribbean and to seek
independence alone.

The text available to us gives, inter alia, the follow-
ing reasons for the decision of the Government of Barbados
referred to above:-

"the rejection of the Draft Federal Scheme by the Gov-
ernment and Legislature of St. Lucia before the 10th
meeting of the Regional Council of Ministers"

This statement is incorrect and, since this resolution
will inevitably become an historical document. I venture
to presume that you will insist on the highest degree of ac-
curacy of the facts therein contained. I therefore hastened
to give you the facts:-

On the 19th March, 1965 the Legislature of St. Lucia
debated a resolution offering "thanks to HisHonourthe
Administrator for his most gracious speech delivered
to this Honourable House on the 17th December, 1964".
This speech contained the following reference to Fed-
eration:-
"An analysis of the international trends in both the
economic and political spheres has given to my Govern-
ment proof that smallterritories such as ours cannot
stand alone; that the demands of our people for a better
and fuller life cannot be met within the limits of our
own resources and that political independence cannot
meaningfully be achieved within the confines of our
limited landmass and small population.

My'Government has consequently entered into
discussions with other non-self-governing territories
of the Windward Islands and Leeward Islands and Bar-
bados in order that satisfactory basis for a viable












Federation may be achieved. My Government will,
however,hesitate to enter into any union unless such
union is armed with adequate powers of economic plan-
ning, regional development and taxation, and is capable
of bringingtothepeople of this Island a measure ot
economic advantage without which political association
is meaningless."

In the course of the debate, several members were
critical of the Draft Federal Scheme but since no resolu-
tion was before the Legislature of St. Lucia, and since the
resolution "giving thanks" was passed without division, it
could not be said that criticism of the Scheme constituted
rejection of "the Draft Federal Scheme bytheGovernment
and Legislature of St. Lucia...."

I assume that you came to the conclusion set out in the
text of your Independence Resolution from newspaper re-
ports of the St. Lucia debate, and as you well know these re-
ports are not always as accurate as one desires,

I therefore hope that you will proceedto set the record
straight by making an appropriate amendment to the pre-
amble to your resolution asitisimportant thatnot only that
the Legislature and people of Barbados make their decision
on this vital issue with full knowledgeofallthefacts, but
that future generations be not misled by inaccuracies con-
tained in an historical document.

With continued esteem for the Government and people
of Barbados,

I remain,
Yours sincerely,

JOHN COMPTON;
Chief Minister.

The Honourable Errol Barrow
Premier
Bridgetown, Barbados.

In reply to that, in a despatch by me on the 27th Octo-
ber, I stated as follows:-

My dear Chief Minister,

You have suggested in your letter of October 14th
that the text of our Independence Resolution is inac-
curate in setting out in the preamble that the Govern-
ment and Legislature of St. Lucia had rejected the
Draft Federal Scheme before the Tenth Meeting of the
Regional Council of Ministers.

The official reports of the legislature debates of
St. Lucia are unfortunately not made available to this
Government so that Ihavehad to rely, on the reports
appearing in the Voice of St. Lucia for the period
March/April, 1965. I have since read no refutation of
the statements or actions attributed to responsible
members of the Government including your good self,

Until I receive some positive evidence that a copy
of the Draft Federal Scheme was not destroyed and
thrown aside by a member of the Government of St.
Lucia, or some proof that the reports contained in the
Voice of St. Lucia are indeed inaccurate, I regret that
I cannot advise either the Cabinet or Legislature of
this Island that the preamble of our Independence Reso-
lution should be amended as you have requested.

I shall be grateful if copies of yourHansard from
March this year could be made available to my office.
I shall be only too willing to despatch regularly to
your Government copies of our Legislative debates.


Please accept, Mr. Chief Minister, the assurances
of my highest consideration.

(ERROL W. BARROW)
Premier.

The Honourable John Compton,
Chief Minister,
ST. LUCIA.
10.45 p.m.

On the 20th November, 1965, this iswhatMr. Compton
wrote:

Government Buildings,
St. Lucia,
The West Indies.
20th November, 1965.

My Dear Premier,


Your Independence Resolution

You suggest in your letter of October 27, 1965, that you
prefer to place credence on newspaper reports than on the
statement made to you by the Head of a Government. This
is a regrettable departure from the norms accepted by the
society of nations and more so when it emanates from the
Head of a Government whose declared intention is to enter
such society. One only hopes that the accepted standard of
behaviour will be acquired prior to your Government's en-
try into full nationhood.

Should you, despite the assurance contained in my
letter of October 14, refuse to amend the offensive part of
the preamble to your Independence Resolution, then the
preamble becomes not merely inaccurate, but false. It
will be regrettable therefore if you should choose to lead
Barbados into Independence using as pretext premises
which are deliberately misleading.

Please accept, Mr. Premier, renewed assurances of
my highest regard and esteem.

Yours faithfully,
John Compton.
Chief Minister.

The Premier,
Government Headquarters,
Barbados.

One of the Ministers of my Government had paid hur-
ried visits to St. Lucia. Now thisisa letter from me to the
Chief Minister of St. Lucia on the 24th November,1965:-

24th November, 1965.

My Dear Chief Minister,

I regret that you have chosen to misrepresentthe con-
tents of my letter of October the 7th in your communication
dated 20th November, 1965.

2. The only legitimate inference to be drawn frompara-
graph 3 of my letter is that upon receipt of the official
report of the proceedings I am fully preparedto amend our
Resolution if these Reports disclose that the draft Federal
Scheme was accepted by the Government and Legislature
of your territory.

3. I hasten to reassure you that I accept your state-
ments on the Administrator's speech and the criticisms
levelled against the draft Federal Scheme, the only point
of difference appears to be whether the paragraphs quoted












from the speech coupled with the criticisms andthe tearing
up of a copy of the Scheme by a Government Minister
amount to objection or not.


4. please accept againtherenewed assurances of my
highest consideration.

(ERROL W. BARROW)
Premier.

The Honourable John Compton,
Chief Minister,
St. LUCIA.

There is no reply and there is no copy of the debate.
Hon. members may see Reports of the Debate in the
"Voice of St. Lucia".

I will now read from the Resolution. I have read the
correspondence between the Chief Minister of St. Lucia and
myself, and hon. members can judgeitforthemselves. Mr.
Bousquet tore up the copy of the draft Federal Scheme and
the Government and the Legislature of St. Lucia had re-
jected the Draft Federal Scheme. After this exhibition in
the Legislature of St. Lucia, Mr. Compton rose to his feet
at the 10th meeting of the Regional Council and said to the
Chairman: "Mr. Chairman, may we have a copy of the
Draft Federal Scheme because you remember that ours
was destroyed in the Legislature by hand and notby fire."

I now proceed with the Resolution with no amendment
after the rejection of the Draft Federal Scheme by the Gov-
ernment and Legislature and Chief Minister of St. Lucia:-

AND WHEREAS these matters have been fully set out
in the White Paper which was laid before this Honourable
House by order of the Cabinet on 17th August, 1965;

AND WHEREAS the Eastern Caribbean Federation con-
templated by the Report of the London Conference 1962 is
not immediately possible in the changed circumstances;

AND WHEREAS ;the Government of Barbados, reaffirm-
ing its dedication to the principle of Regional Association,
will continue after Independence to work in close co-
operation with the Governments and Peoples of other Com-
monwealth Caribbean Countries to promote by joint en-
deavour the complete political social and economic
emancipation of all classes in all territories:

If I may pause here very briefly; compare that with the
attitude of the Premier of Jamaica and the attitude of both
Parties in Jamaica. There is no attitude of this Government
that they are prepared to go into Federation with us. All
we have said is that three and one half years haveelapsed
since these negotiations have been going on and they have
proved to be fruitless. I was not elected here by K. R.
Hunte and I do notthinkwe should be importing copra under
an agreement devised purely for a small groupof people
As I have said, this is the lard-oil lobby on the other side;
this is the kind of economic weapon which they are using.
One of them told me in front of fifteen people that he did
not intend to reduce the cost of feedstuffs. That is how they
want this Government to be run by bribery and corruption
from outside. They do not want a Government which can
stick to its convictions. The British Government gives a
subsidy on behalf of the Leeward and Windward Islands, to
run the Commission in London. We have had a loss of
revenue in loan repayments and have had to withdraw the
Migrant Service. Mr. Speaker, how can we work with peo-
ple who are out to pull the island of Barbados down to their
standards?

The Resolution continues as follows:-

AND WHEREAS the present Constitution of Barbados
makes no provisionforthemanagement, by its citizens,
or their external relations;

AND WHEREAS the General Assembly of the United
Nations, in its resolution of December, 14th, 1960, pro-


claimed the necessity of bringing to a speedy and uncon-
ditional end colonialism in all itsformsand manifestations;
and adopted a Declaration

(a) That the subjection of peoples to alien domination
constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights;

(b) that such is contrary to the charter of the United
Nations, and is an impediment to the promotion of
world peace and co-operation;

(c) that inadequacy of political, economic, social or
educational preparedness should never serve as
a pretext for delaying independence;
10.55 p.m.

"(d) that all armed action or repressive measures di-
rected against dependent peoples should cease in
order to enable them to exercise peacefully and
freely their right to complete independence;

(e) that their national territory should be respected;

(f) that in trust and non-self governing territories or
other territories which have not yet attained in-
dependence, immediate steps should be taken to
transfer all powers to the peoples of those ter-
ritories without any distinctions as to race, creed
or colour;


AND
states:


WHEREAS paragraph 124 of the White Paper


"The House of Assembly will be asked to agree to a
Resolution requesting the Secretary of State to fix an early
date for a Conference on Independence; andif agreed to, the
Senate will be invited to concur therein;"

BE IT THEREFORE RESOLVED that this House re-
quest Her Majesty's Principal Secretary of State for the
Colonies to convene, at the earliest opportunity, a Con-
ference to arrange the constitutional, financial, defence and
other details incidental to, and arising from, the assump-
tion, by the People of Barbados, of Sovereign Nationhood
within the Commonwealth in 1966.

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Senate be in-
vited to concur herein."

Mr. Speaker, I made a promise and I intend to fulfil
that promise. Let me first read the telegram from Mr.
Anthony Greenwood in fairness to him. It is Circular No.
33, and reads as follows:-

"I am glad to have had the privilege and opportunity
over the last fourteen months of contributing as Secretary
of State to the .continuing process of the political, social
and economic development in these territories from which
Britain still has responsibilities. I have been fortunate in
being able to visit a number of territories and to study both
progress and problems on the spot. I have enjoyed and
learned much from many meetings with representatives
from overseas conferences. Duringtheyear,the affairs
of territories as diverse as South Arabia and British
Guiana have been matters of deep personal concern to me
but my abiding interest has been to work patiently for a
future for each and every territory, whatever its cir-
cumstances a future which would satisfy the aspirations
of the peoples concerned and would enable them to live in
freedom and in harmony in whatever relationshipthey chose
to have with us in Britain.

I am now going to take charge of the Ministry of Over-
seas Development where I shall of course continue to have
in the future a deep and practicalinterest in the dependent
territories.

I am deeply grateful to all my friends and colleagues
in the Colonial Office and in the territories overseas for all
their support to me in what has been a most exciting, ar-
duous and worthwhile task."













I will also read Circular No. 34 from the New Secre-
tary of State, the Marquis of Longford to whom I referred
before. The occasion of our first meeting was not a very
happy one for him, because he fell out of an aircraft in
which I took him into Berlin. He jumped out before the
landing steps were lowered. This is only an aside; but we
have remained good friends, and I am glad that Barbados
is making this great step under his leadership. Do not let
anybody on the other side think that I am going to use his
friendship; I am going to rely on constitutional proprieties,
and there is no Secretary of Statewhocan tell the Govern-
ment of Barbados or the Legislature how they should pro-
ceed to Independence. However, let me read this letter-

"On assuming office today as Secretary of State for
the Colonies, I should like to say how much I am looking
forward to playing my part in the manifold tasks which lie
before us in the 32 dependent territories. Much has been
achieved; much remains to be done. It will continue to be
our aim to lead to Independence those territories which
want it and can sustain it. But whatever the final goal, be
it Independence or some kind of voluntary continuing as-
sociation with Britain, we must continue to work out the
future for the territories in consultation with the govern-
ments and peoples concerned. I hope to be able to make as
many personal contacts as opportunity permits.

As the new Secretary of State, I send to you my per-
sonal greetings and good wishes for 1966."

Some people have achieved independence, some were
born independent, and some are having independencethrust
upon them. It is not often that I make allusionsto the history
of the Hebrew peoples who are now settled in their own
country two and a half million of them in a landthatwas
a desert which Mr. Ernest Bevin, a socialist ForeignMin-
ister said in 1946 could not sustain more than 300,000 or
400,000 people, and therefore he could not allow the
Israelites to return to their own land. It was not the first
time in their own history that they had this kind of tribu-
lation. This was also trueatthetime of the Prophet Isaiah,
the Prophet of national liberation when they were marching
to Babylonia, and to those doubtful Thomases, those who
are faltering by the wayside, I can honestly quote the Pro-
phet of national liberation and apply it mutatis mnutan'is
to the situation which we are trying to obtain- today.

"In righteousness shalt thou be established; thou shalt
be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from
terror; for it shall not come near thee."

Mr. Speaker, I beg to move thafthis Resolution do now
pass. (Cheers.)

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: I beg to second that.

Mr. SPEAKER: Does the hon. junior member for St.
Michael seek to reserve his right to speak?

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: Yes, Mr. Speaker.

SUSPENSION OF SITTING

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move that
this Sitting be now suspended until 11 a.m. tomorrow, Wed
nesday, 5th January, 1966. I do this, Mr. Speaker, because
as I told the House, we are suspending at 6.30 p.m. to-
morrow evening; so I do not think hon. members would mind
having to come earlier.

Mr. MOTTLEY: I would suggest to theHon. Leaderof
the House that he makes it later than that.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I therefore beg to
move that this sitting be now suspended until 12 o'clock
noon.

Hon. C. E. TALMA: I beg to second that.


The question was put and resolved in the affinnative
without division, and.llr. SPEIKER suspended the Sitting
accordingly.
11.10 p.m.


Hon. G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker,thereisno quorum
present and I ask that the Bell be rung.

Mr. SPEAKER: I thank the hon. member for drawing
that to my attention, Let the Bell be rung.



RESOLUTION RE SOVEREIGN NATIONHOOD WITHIN
THE COMMONWEALTH BY THE PEOPLEOF
BARBADOS

Mr. SPEAKER: When the Sitting was suspended yes-
terday, the hon. Junior member for St. Michael seconded
the motion for the passing of this Resolution and he had
reserved his right to speak;but before the hon. member
rises to speak, it he so desires, I would like to inform
hon. members that I have received letter fromGovern-
ment House which reads as follows:-

LETTER FROM THE GOVERNOR RE ABSENCE
FROM THE ISLAND

GOVERNMENT HOUSE,
BARBADOS.

December, 1965.

Sir,

I have the honour to inform you that I propose to
leave the Island on or about the 2nd January, 1966, and shall
be absent for a short period of approximately 8 days.

2. During my absence from the Island, Senator Sir Grey
Massiah C.B.E., President of the Senate, will be appointed
Governor's Deputy.

3. As I understand that the House of Assembly will not
be meeting prior to my departure, it will not be possible
to send the usual Message to the House informing them of
my proposed absence from the Island. You may however
wish to inform members accordingly.

I have the honour to be,
Sir,
Your most obedient, humble servant,
JOHN STOW
Governor.


His Honour
J. E. T. Brancker, Q.C., M.P.,
Speaker of the House of Assembly,
PUBLIC BUILDINGS.

I regret to say that this letter was not read to the
Honourable House yesterday. Unfortunately, through some
inadvertence, it was not placed on my file.

APOLOGY FROM "DAILY NEWS"NEWSPAPER

Mr. SPEAKER: I should also like to informthe House
that in respect of certain comments which I made yes-
terday apropos of the article which had appeared in
yesterday's date of the "Daily News", there has been
published onthe front page of that newspaper this morning
under the caption "Apology" what I regard as a full
and ample apology. I accept it as such and I regard now
that matter as being closed.












CORRECTION OF RESOLUTION AS TABLED
BY MR. SMITH

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, I want to draw to the atten-
tion of the Honourable House that when I tabled that
Resolution yesterday, I omitted to mention that I was
doing so on behalf of my colleague, the hon. junior member
for St. George.

Mr. SPEAKER: I thank the hon. member for drawing
that to my attention. If there is no objection, I will have
the name on the Resolution changed on the Order Paper
to the name of the hon. junior member for St. George.
(After a pause.) There is no objection, and that correction
will be made.

RESOLUTION RE SOVEREIGN NATIONHOOD
FOR BARBADOS

Mr. SPEAKER: The House will not proceed to the
resumption of the debate on the Resolution requesting Her
Majesty's Principal Secretary of State for the Colonies
to convene, at the earliest opportunity, a Conference to
arrange the constitutional, financial, defence and other
details incidental to, and arising from, the assumption
by the people of Barbados, of Sovereign Nationhood within
the Commonwealth in 1966."

(After a pause). The question is .......

Mr. SEALEY: Mr. Speaker, I am speaking on behalf
of the Leader of the Official Opposition: for some reason
or other, he is not in his place. We want to make it
abundantly clear that we, onthissideofthe House, have
nothing whatsoever against Independence. (Cheers) What
we ask ......

Mr. COWARD: On a point of ordr. I think that the
hon. member would be more correct if he said "some of
us on this side of the House", but he said "we on this
side of the House".

Mr. SPEAKER: I take it that the hon. member meant
the members of his Party.

Mr. SEALEY: I think I said most of us on this side
of the House (L daughter from the Gallery.)

Mr. SPEAKER: Let it be made clear that visitors
are here on sufferance, and that this room can and will
be cleared if there is any interruption whatsoever.

Mr. SEALEY: What we are saying, Sir, is that we
would rather have independence within a Federation for
many reasons. For many of us in this island for the first
time yesterday we heard about this whole matter from the
Hon. senior member for St. John. Many of us would like
to know the facts about Independence. I have heard my
colleague, the hon. senior member for the City, make
it abundantly clear that he is not here merely for the sake
of offering opposition; as long as he feels that any motion
which is brought before this Honourable House is for the
good and welfare of the people of this island, it was his
intention to support it regardless of who brought it forward.
Now, Sir, simply because we did not allow Independence
to be forced down our throats immediately, we were called
by all kinds of names. For three and a half years the
present Government was running the affairs of the Island
of Barbados. They fought for Federation and we were told
that this Federation would be placed on a mandatory
levy and that this Federation would not be allowed
to go down like the former Federation. The hon. senior
member for St. John feels that he is a Federation
genius, and he was so sure that this Federation would
be lasting that he boasted thatwhat theformer Government
failed to do during their regime, he would have done in
less than three years. My contention is that if the Hon.
Premier of this Island did not know that Independence was
the logical thing for the island of Barbados, why did he
waste three and one half years before attaining it?
12.10 p.m.


Three and a half years of negotiations were spent
behind closed doors at Sherbourne House and we knew
absolutely nothing of what was going on; but after the
Tenth Meeting of the Regional Council of Ministers we
were told that there were quarrels and rows and people
walked out of the Conference room. Consequently Inde-
pendence is being rammed down our throats without
letting us know what are the technical points, what it
would cost us alone and what it would cost within a
Federation.

I think you will agree with me, Mir. Speaker, that if
we go independent alone, this would be an added respon-
sibility to the people of this island. If the Hon. Premier
fought for three years and lost, it is nothing strange to
him. I can remember that the Hon. Premier ran in a
bye-election in St. John and he won. Why did he not say
he was finished with politics when he lost the first bye-
election? Today he is Premier of Barbados, and we do not
have in our hearts that he should be removed from office,
neither do we have in our hearts that the Federation has
been unduly delayed; but what we want to know is how
much money it is going to cost Barbados. If we go into
Independence alone, where are we going to get the excess
money from with the amount of people we have in this
island? There are many unemployed people in this island,
and my feeling is that we should move immediately to
remove hunger and starvation and eliminate ourunemploy-
ment situation. To go independent alone, in my opinion,
is to add further responsibility to the poor fathers and
mothers of this island.

If you want to know the condition of many of the people
in this Island you should just throw yourself in the villages.
Taxation is high and is going higher every year, and I have
been told that it is higher than in any other part of the
world.

I heard the hon. Premier mention yesterday that they
have ten embassies in various countries, even Cuba. I
hope this well be taken as an example by the policemen
and Civil Servants of this island who are underpaid. I
did not know that we had so much surplus money in the
island that we could afford to have embassies.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order,
I did not want to interrupt the hon. member, and I hope
I do not have to do it again, but I think what he has just
said is misrepresenting the Hon. Premier. The hon.
member has said that the Premier said yesterday that we
have ten embassies spread out around the world, and he
mentioned the Premier as having saidthatonewas in Cuba.
That is of course not true. What the hon. Premier said,
and this was in respect of external relations, is that we
pay the British Government money for doing things for us
in Panama, Cuba and in other places.

Mr. SEALEY: Mr. Speaker, I did not take a note of
what he said, but I remember he mentioned Cuba; so if
we can afford to have an embassy in Cuba, we can afford
to raise salaries here. Barbados is a one crop economy.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Again on a point of order. Mr.
Speaker, nowhere was it stated yesterday by the Hon.
Premier that we have embassies anywhere. We do not
have any embassies. The Premier said that for the pur-
pose of relieving distressed Barbadians, we do have to
remit money to the United Kingdom Government who
spends it on our behalf.

Mr. SEALEY: Mr. Speaker, that means therefore that
you have a Commissioner in the various countriesthrough-
out the world to whom money is sent from Barbados. I
received a letter from St. Lucia only this morningin which
we have been warned that the tension between Barbadians
and St. Lucians is very high due to the political situation
in Barbados. We know that Independence will come some
day, but we are still saying that you should have another
try at Federation.


I











I heard the Premier of British Guiana at a political
meeting say that Barbados has 300,000 people. He has
given us 50,000 more thanweactuallyhave. He also said
that Antigua has 60,000 people and that British Guiana
has 660,000 people, which together make a total of one
million people, and that we could go forward as a nation.
That is all we are asking the Government to do today. In
Barbados, a countryof 166 square miles and with a popu-
lation of 250,000 people, there are 26,000 unemployed;
so where are we going to get the money from?
12.20 p.m.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to knowfromthe information
if it were not possible to do anything more. We are not say-
ing that the Hon. Premier has not tried his best. It appears
to me that in some cases he had more patience than Job. On
page 20, paragraph 28, of the White Paper, it is stated:-

"From this statement it will be seen that, far from a
crystalisation of proposals for positive assistance to the
Eastern Caribbean, the attitude of the British is becoming
vaguer and more nebulous as thetimegoeson. Indeed when
the Premier of Barbados enquired from the Secretary of
State in December, 1963, how soon a positive statement could
be expected on the quantum of financial assistance that
would be forthcoming, so that the taxpayers of Barbados
could assess more accurately what they were letting them-
selves in for, the Secretary of State's reply was that the
British Government was not "buying a Federation", and
that the islands should want a Federation for a Federation's
sake,"

It goes on:

"The Premier's reply was that thepeopleof Barbados
had no Federation to sell, and were not looking for colonies,
but partners."

What does that mean? The British Government for
many years has been depending on these smallislands and
they in turn gave us the joys which we have. Fortunately
today, we have got leaders to look out for our economic
development; so it means that we are quite aware of that,
and therefore, we are quite able to look after ourselves.
We are governing ourselves internally; so we have nothing
to look forward to from joining a Federation. The White
Paper would show you that.

The British Government has beengivinggrants-in-aid
to many of the other territories for many years and are
willing to get rid of them. We have seen that; therefore, I
can see where the other territories are willing to join in
some Federation; otherwise, some would be left knocking
at the door.

The White Paper goes on to say:-

The Ninth Meeting of the Regional Council of Minis-
ters was held in Barbados in October, 1964 where the
Draft Federal Scheme was discussed. The newly elected
Government of St. Lucia attended the Regional Council of
Ministers for the first time. TheSchemewas accepted with
reservations by the Government of Antigua on Income Tax,
Agriculture, Police and Postal Services; by the Govern-
ment of St. Kitts on Customs Union; by the Government of
St. Vincent on Police; and by the Governments of Dominica
and St. Lucia on the utilisation of Federal Revenues,"

Mr. Compton wanted over 90 percentof the money col-
lected to be spent on the lesser islands.

If you go a little further, on page 25, paragraph 40,
you will see that "the Premier of Barbados submitted to
the meeting the decision of the Barbados Cabinet of 24th
April, 1965, and further informed the Conference that, in
view of the withdrawal of Antigua from the Federal exer-
cise, and the uncertainty of the Governments of St. Lucia
and Montserrat as regards the form of association re-
quired, whether unitary or federal, he felt that publicity


ought to be given to the new situation that had arisen, and
that after consultation with the political parties and dis-
cussion in the Legislature, the Government of Barbados
would be in a position to make their views known and at
such time they might be willing to resume discussions."

From that time, April 1965, that these discussions
were going on, we were puzzling about the outcome.

It goes onto saythat "after one of the St. Lucia dele-
gates had challenged the bon a fides of the Barbados Cabinet's
decision in rather offensive terms, the Premier of Barba-
dos felt himself constrained to withdraw from the meeting
which was adjourned to the following day."

That was the time we heard that they were fighting.

Mr. Speaker, the Hon. Premier did notworryto go on
any further with the discussions. My point is, why waste
three and a half years in the Federal exercise? Why did
he not claim independence before for Barbados? We un-
derstand that as a result of this decision, the Democratic
Labour Party was split right down the centre, its left, its
right and behind.

Mr. Speaker, I beg to move the following amendment:-

To omit all the words after "convene" and to substi-
tute the following words therefore:

"After the holding of elections in Barbados to decide
whether Barbados shall proceed to independence, within a
Federation comprised of such territories in the Eastern
Caribbean as are willing to join in such an association, or
alone, a conference representative of all political parties
to arrange for the implementation of the decision taken
and for the constitutional, financial, defence and other
measures for the establishment of an independent nation at
the earliest possible time.

Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Speaker, I am speaking on the main
motion,that is the motion moved by the Hon. Premier and se-
conded by the hon. junior member for St. Michael.

Mr. WALCOTT: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of
order. I would like you to state the procedure at this stage.
The hon. Leader of the Opposition has just said that he is
speaking on the main motion. By that, I would like Your
Honour to give a ruling as regards whatthere is in con-
tradistinction from the main motion before this House
and what choice one has to determine which motion one has
to speak on.
12.30 p.m.

Mr. SPEAKER: The Hon. Leader of the Opposition is
speaking on the Motion, and there is only one motion before
the House. There canbe nodoubtthatthe Hon. Leader of
the Opposition is speaking on that motion.

Mr. WALCOTT: The hon. member who is speaking on
the motion which is the substantive motion, would like to
escape the Standing Orders of the House so that when the
other motion is seconded, he can rise for a second time and
make a speech on the amendment. That is the only reason
why any hon. member could inform youthathe is speaking
on the main motion.

Mr. SPEAKER: If and when the occasion arises, I will
rule on that. At the moment lam not so disposed to rule.

Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Speaker, I am speaking on the
main motion which is before the House and that is the mo-
tion. whichhas been made bythe Hon. Premier. The amend-
ment has not yet been seconded. Mr. Speaker, before any of
the remarks which I may make todaybemisrepresented in
the Press oronthe air, Ithink I should make it clear that
neither I, as Leader of the Opposition, and Leader and
Chairman ofthis Party, no members of my Party have at
any time, publicly or otherwise, mentioned thatwe were











opposed to Independence for Barbados as such. I want to
make that abundantly clear. Todaywe still take that same
stand. However, Sir, it does seem as though, if you differ
with anybody in the method of approachto some things, the
Leader of the Government seems to brook no opposition
or difference of opinion, not even on the approach to such
matters.

I shall begin to deal withthe laying of the White Paper.
After the White Paper was laid inthis House, my Party
held a general meeting to discuss the matter and we ar-
rived at the decision that while we supported Independence
for Barbados, we would certainlyhave preferred thatwe
attained that Independence together with other territories,
which would be of greater economic advantage to Barbados.
That matter having been discussed and the decision arrived
at, my Party kept its first public meeting in order to put
the matter before the general public. At no time did any
speaker either in public, private or otherwise intimatethat
he was opposed to Independence for Barbados. I remember
distinctly saying that only a lunatic at large would oppose
Independence for Barbados. As Barbadians who were
watching and studying world trends and events, we could
not offer any opposition to Independence for Barbados, but
we differed in the approach to the matter, and we feel defi-
nitely that for economic reasons and for the future develop-
ment of the territories in the Caribbean area, it would be
much better for the territories of the Eastern Caribbean
to come together and there could be an Independent West
Indies. The Hon. Premier has said that had he heard what
I told him, he would not have to be in that position yester-
day defending Barbados, He further said that he awoke one
morning and telephoned the Minister of Education and said
that he felt that something was being put on Barbados. The
first time Ihad the opportunity of joining the exercise of a
Federation was in 1962. I studied the Minister's actions
very carefully and I remembered saying to the Hon. Prem-
ier that I thought it would be a difficult job because I had
seen behind his back and behind the back of the then Min-
ister of Trade, thehon. senior member for St. Philip I
had seen the action of certain Ministers and I felt that they
were not really sincere.

After the illness of the Premier, personalities seemed
to have dominated the Conference from the point of view
of the West Indies; when he was taken ill there was a
scramble and there was the idea that no other person from
Barbados was to preside at Committee Meetings, I ana-
lysed that this was a personality and not Barbados as such,
I discussed with the Premier the pros and cons of this
matter,
12,40 p,m.

You will recall the stand I took when we came to this
House to discuss the White Paper whichwas issued as a
Report of the East Caribbean Conference,1962.Lest it should
have been said at the time that I was not in favour of or that
I would have done anything to prevent the coming together
of the Caribbean Islands in a closer association for econo-
mic and political reasons, I said as a politician of some
experience and a fairly good judge of human nature that
it seemed difficult to me after discussing the pros and
cons of the then defunct Federation, and that what we
should have would be certain amendments to this Report.
You will recall, Sir, that I made certain amendments in
here relative to the normwhichshould be given for re-
presentation.

Hon. members will recallMr. Speaker, that Imade a
straightforward and honest suggestion which a tremendous
lot of people criticised, because they said it would be rather
unique and could not work, but Ithoughtthat it was in the
interest of getting a closer association. My suggestion was
to give the right to a Minister or Ministers to serve not
only in the unit Legislature, but also in the Federal Leg-
islature. From listening to what was said bythe Ministers
at Marlborough House, it was felt that after Sir Grantley
Adams left Barbados, he had lost the grip and contact with
the people, but it seemed as though inthe absence of that
a Second Eleventeam would have been sent. We all remem-
ber that Jamaica and Trinidad sent Second Eleventeams
to the last Federation. I said thenthatI saw nothing wrong


with this, provided in an impoverished area suchas the
West Indies these gentlemen were only allowed to draw
one salary. Being separated by so much water, I said
that this Federation would have been unique inhaving this
type of representation. I saythatto show that despite the
fact that I saw these difficulties, I was a person always
in favour of doing something which would bring the islands
together.

In the speech which I made inthis respect, I made it
quite clear that I supported Federation, but only on the
grounds that Barbados would not suffer and also that the
British Government was prepared to give us the necessary
help for those islands which we had to take into closer
association. My party took the stand that it did not like
going blindly into a Federation. You will remember, Sir,
that I criticised the first Economist, Miss Hicks, who
after flying over Dominica, St. Kitts and these other islands
gave out to the world in less than three days that in her
opinion these islands could be economically viable. I did
not accept it, but I felt that the British Government would
have to come to the rescue of these islands, and I drew
to the attention of members that none other than Sir
Winston Churchill had mentioned that there was a time
when these islands supported Great Britain, and therefore
sle would in turn be giving us the riches which she had
taken from us for which the planters of this country had
incurred so much curse and blame. They could have paid
better prices for our sugar, but they took it at whatever
price they liked, and the plantations in this country went
into bankruptcy, Chancery and the like.

I made that speech, Mr. Speaker, fully conscious of the
school places we needed, fully conscious of the network
of roads which was necessary in this country and fully
conscious of the number of social reforms, and I could not
therefore agree for a moment that we could federate unless
there was that financial aid which should be known in
advance, and not wait, as people had said, for consideration
afterwards. I feel that we should have had some guarantee
even if we did not know the amount,
Now, Sir, this exercise over thepastfourmonths has
caused me to realise a very important thing, though late
in my life. The members of this Chamber and the general
public will recall that after my Party made its decision,
which was a democratic decision, there were thepros and
cons to be taken into consideration. May I at this stage
say that at no time were we considering any tallow or butter
or any Kenneth Hunte!
12.50 p.m.

For your information and the information of the House
and the general public, Mr. Kenneth Hunte is not a member
of the Council of my Party, and for the information of the
hon, member and members of the general public, Mr.
Kenneth Hunte is not a commercial element of my Party;
so this tallow, butter and grease talk, these whole gutter-
hole talks about tallow grease, butter and lardoil has ab-
solutely nothing to do with us.

Mr. Speaker, I went to the general public and you
will recall all that and I put the case, along with mem-
bers of my Party, as the case should have been put in a
democratic and reasonable communitywhere two sides must
be heard by the general public. The next thing I knew. Mr.
Speaker, is that the ruling Party held a meeting and there
was a unique attack on me. How often has it been said by
the general public that I was not carrying out my duties?This
is where we were going into matters we knew were of
benefit to the people of this country; therefore, why come
in here and make yourself objectionable just to oppose for
opposing's sake? I challenge anymaninthis country or any
member in this House to get up and say today that I have
on any occasion opposed any measure which was for the
social good of the people of this Island,

This is one measure which I opposed. In my twenty
years in this House I challenge any member to say, re-
gardless of what the affiliation of his Party may be,that I
have ever opposed any measure that was brought down for
the social progress of the people of this island. I came into












this House twenty years ago and that is a long time -
and you found out that your best was that you must convince
those who had the power at that time that others who were
fighting the cause of the masses were fighting a right and
just cause; therefore, if I have done nothing else, I have
the sense in approaching the Cabinet. I look back and see
that no one can point a finger at me and say that I have
done nothing for the masses of this country.

What I have been taught in this whole Independence
exercise that has been carried on is that your friendship
can be bandied about so much. Mr. Speaker, sometimes I
say things; sometimes I kept my mouth shut because I was
unwilling to create unnecessary noise. I am not a party
to those people who would have everybody to believe that
nobody else in this country has done anything for this coun-
try but one man. If you take the Hon. Premier's speeches
from 1939 until the present day, youwill see that he himself
pointed out that during all the various stages of the consti-
tutional development in Barbados we often found people
to create an atmosphere of goodwill; we were not prepared
to bow, and we were prepared not to be marionettes. You
found that in the other territories, Mr. Adams, now Sir
Grantley Adams was looked at as a guide and as the Hon.
Premier rightly said, he broughtthem up-to-date; but if you
were to listen now to him, you would come to the conclu-
sion unless you can'tthinkforyourself that no one
else has ever done anything for Barbados but he,

There is a difference of opinion about Sir Conrad
Reeves and Sir Grantley Adams; but after all, I know that
I have a conscience. I have listened to others and there
are always two sides of politics and to say that because
a man has made some mistakes that he has done nothing
is absolutely rank, stark dishonesty.
Mr. Speaker, who fought the Colonial Office in the
old days? As a matter of fact, what the Hon. Premier said
was to the effect that he has had to do all this fight. I want
to sayhere and now that the onlyelection that I had not been
participating directly in was the election in St. John. I
will say this now. Never in my mind have I lost, as long as
I have been in this House, the meaning of the word "friend-
ship" with amanwho knows:that my ideology was different
from his: but I was on such good terms with him that I
never thought he would have attempted to go in public and
draw into our friendship even the closest and dearest
person to him and accuse me of the most dishonest thing..
When a man does that his head wants examining, What is
wrong with him more than his head wants examining? As
I have said, the only election that I did not participate
in was the one in St. John,
1 p.m.
I was opposed to the Government then, I was asking
people to return him because I thought he was a man who
had something to offer to this country, I asked people to
support him. But today he sees fit not only to criticise
my politics but to make innuendoes as to my honesty, I
refer to people who walk about masquerading under the
pretence of honest men; you keep your hands in your poc-
kets and watch them.

The Honourable Leader of the House said that he
should have moved this Resolution and the Hon. Leader
of the Opposition should have seconded it, There is nothing
which I would have liked to do more than that. The bon.
member says that he would have liked to discuss the matter
with me. I do not like to interrupt the hon, member,but it
was onlyyesterdaywhenhe made suchreferences, I repeat:
I would have liked to be in a position to second the motion
for the passing of this Resolution, but the hon, member
suggests that I engage myself in matters which are too
high for me. The bon. member has suggested that we went
on platforms inthis island and accused himof breaking
up the Federation. The Federation came to anend after what
happened at the meeting of the Regional Council of Minis-
ters and it is only yesterday that the Hon. Premier denied
those accusations. If the hon. member really wanted the
Opposition to second a Resolution of this sort, well, the hon.
member said thatthese Conferences were not to be attended
by members of the Opposition. It was fitting for him to


quote Sir Arthur Lewis then, but I wonder how he would
like it when we quote Sir Arthur Lewis.

Sir Arthur Lewis said that it would be dangerous to
carry members of the Opposition to these Conferences.
Sir, I bow to Sir Arthur Lewis on any matter. I say again
that there is nothing that I would like better than being
able to get up in this House and say: "I beg to second
this motion for Independence." All sorts of meetings
have been kept in this island and the hon. member accuses
me of all people and says that I exercise myself in things
which are too high for me, It suits the hon. member at
times to quote from Holy Writ and to make reference to
it: but when he thinks of dealing with people on other oc-
casions well, I will not say that. There is nothing I
would like to do better than to have been able to second
the motion for the passing of this Resolution in relation to
this very important matter for the island of Barbados, but
the opportunity was not given either to me or to any other
member of the Opposition. I have been accused that I
went all over this island speaking about this matter, but
the general public knows that I spoke at three meetings in
this whole island on this matter. At the first meeting we
put our case as to the Resolution which our Party had
passed; at the second meeting we put our case and I had
to defend myself. The hon, member said that people of my
Party who would not go out on any other occasion to dis-
cuss matters, had gone out to ask the people not to
support Independence. The hon. member knows that that
is not true. Besides my Party members there was Mr.
Jack Dear; we spoke at public meetings in this island.
There is one thing which amuses me and it is this: The
Premier for the second time in this entire e)'rcise
denounced criminals, rogues and vagabonds. The Premier,
at a big meeting in Independence Square said that there
were people in this countrywho were still sympathetic
with Castro and Jagan. When the Premier says that this
criminal element was brought in, I am sorry that he is
not now in his place because Iwould like to ask him some-
thing.

At the first Conference when it was moved that they
should go straight to Independence, a gentleman des-
cribed himself as the Director of the big Atlantic Bank.
Mr. Sydney Alleyne could only move the Resolution if
he was a member and a financial member of the Party,
He told a Barbadian whom I first met in England and
the Premier himself told me of his criminal record. I
am talking about this criminal element because up to then
we had heard nothing about any criminal element.
1.10 p.m.

If you are talking about the criminal element, I will
say that on the Council of the Democratic Labour Party
is Mr. Granville Foster who served time in prison.

Mr. SPEAKER: I will ask the hon. member to confine
himself, so far as possible, to the substantive matter of
this Resolution and not to individual members of any
party.

Mr. MOTTLEY: We are being accused of importing
a criminal element into this discussion and surely we are
entitled to defend ourselves and put the record straight.
All we did, Mr. Speaker, was to keep meetings, and then
there were meetings held by people known as the under-
privileged, and there can be no denyingthatthese meetings
were sponsored by the Democratic Labour Party, and
if you look at the record of some of them, you will see
that they are shady. You can use people for what you
want at the time, and when you realise that it is going
to boomerang, you get up and denounce them. People
who only wanted to express a view were being abused, but
we sat by waiting because sometimes you must meet
steel with steel, and the only thing we could have done
was to have met steel with steel. Now the bon. member asks
what we are debating today.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order,
did I understand the hon. member to say that Mr. Granville
Foster is a member of the Executive Council of the












Democratic Labour Party and that he served a term in
gaol? Al we know about Mr. Foster is that he is or was
employed by the Bridgetown City Council, but he is
certainly not a member of the Executive Committee of
the Democratic Labour Party.

Mr. MOTTLEY: I wonder if you would say the same
thing about Mr. Sydney Alleyne?

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, on a point of
order, I just entered this Chamber and I am not in a
position to know what is bothering the hon. member who
is ranting, raving and screaming at the top of his voice
as if you cannot hear in spite of the amplification. I
think that you as Speaker ought to request the hon. mem-
ber to modulate his tones. Idid nothear the remarks made
about me or about my knowledge of something or the
other, but the Hon. Minister of Health. Housing and
Community Development has drawn to my attention points
made by the hon. senior member for Bridgetown. The hon.
member referred to one Mr. Sydney Alleyne whom I said
I had first met in England and who I told him, had a crimi-
nal record. I want to saythatthisis absolutely untrue. I do
not know what the relevance is to this debate at all, but I
am unaware of anybody by the name of Mr. Sydney Alleyne
having any kind of criminal record. I know I represented
him once in court, and he was acquitted; therefore he is
entitled as a result of his acquittal to be considered in the
same light as any other person. The hon. senior member for
St. Philip got up in St. Philip and said that I denied knowing
the gentleman ......
Mr. SPEAKER: That is not and could never be a point
of order.
Hon. E. W. BARROW: I am saying, on a point of order,
that the hon. member is not entitled to get up here and in-
troduce irrelevant matters into a debate of this kind, and
secondly if he is making any statement which is relevant
or which is irrelevant, he should atleasttry to stick to the
truth, I am saying positively that, whatever the importance
of the hon. member in his anxiety getting up accusing peo-
ple outside of this Chamber who are not party tothis debate of
committing all kinds of crime, it is positively untrue that I
could ever have told the hon. member that Mr. Sydney
Alleyne had a criminal record. I certainly told the hon.
member that I represented that gentleman in the Courts of
Law in this Island; but I should enjoin you to request the
hon. member, if this debate is to proceed on the same high
level on which it started, to refrain from making misstate-
ments of fact,and certainly to stick to the subject matter of the
debate.Evenif Itold thehon. members, which Idid not,and I
refute categorically that Idid not, I do not seeof what impor-
tance it is or what ithasgotto do with Barbados going into
Independence.
Mr, MOTTLEY: Knowing that the hon. member was
sick, maybe he did not realise that the man went to prison
in Trinidad, He told me so.
Hon. E. W. BARROW: On apointoforder, I have never
appeared in a criminal court in Trinidad. Appeared in the
Federal Court of Appeal on several occasions, but I have
never done a criminal case in Trinidad in my life.

Mr. MOTTLEY: The relevance of this is that the hon.
member has accused this Party of bringing into this ex-
ercise of Independence within a Federation a lot of cut-
throats and criminals, and I say that his Party brought
them in from the beginning. And I say you must have been
sick and do not remember.

Mr. SPEAKER: Letthehon. member not be saying
"you".

Mr. MOTTLEY: I begyour pardon, Mr. Speaker, I mean
the hon, member.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: On a point of order, there is
just one thing I would like to say, since the newspapers do
not like to report these things. The hon, member says I
was sick and I cannot remember. When I was in a hospital
in London, the hon. member for St. Philip and the hon.


senior member for Bridgetown came tovisitme, and I was
informed at some point by the hon. member for St. Philip
that a certain gentleman was trying to see me, and he asked
whether I knew him, and after trying to recollect, I said
that the only person I knew by that name was somebody I
represented in the courts in Barbados. That is all there is
to it. But a debate on Independence is going to be dragged
down to the level of my having told him that somebody had
a criminal record.

Hon. W. A. CRAWFORD: On apointof order, my name
has been brought into this matter; I do not know what for.
The hon. member for St. John is correct. A man did come
to see me in London and I asked the Premier if he knew
him, and he said that he remembered appearing for him in
a case for collecting money by false pretences, he had no
case and he advised him to leave the island.
1.20 p.m.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: That is not the truth. The hon.
member is a master at prevarication.

Mr. CRAWFORD: I am not finished yet. The hon.
senior member for St. John told him that the man had no
case and the only thing he could do was to get on a boat and
go out of the Island. The hon. senior member for St. John
charged him $50 and when he paid the money it was all
counterfeit money. That is what he told us.

Mr. WALCOTT: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of
order. Are you allowing this sort of behaviour in here?
These hon. members are running away and now reducing
the debate to this type of conduct which is a negation to
proper debating. It shows that these are people who are
incapable of running a government. What are we to do with
Mr. Alleyne?

Mr. SPEAKER: I would never rule an interruption is
not a point of order until I hear the point an hon. member
is purporting to make.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: I am speaking on a point of
order. There is not a single person in this island who
would give credence to what the hon. senior member for St.
Philip is saying.

Mr. CRAWFORD: I object to that. The hon. member
is the most notorious liar I have known.

Mr. SPEAKER: Two hon. members are on their feet.

Mr. CRAWFORD: I rise on a point of order. I went
down......

Hon. E. W. BARROW: I would not have my point of or-
der interrupted by the hon. member. Since the hon. mem-
ber made an allegation against me and this is the way
that they have been conducting the campaign.

Mr. SPEAKER: Has the hon. member risen on a point
of order?

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Yes,Sir, I am on a point of order.
The hon. senior member for St. Philip has made a very
serious accusation against me as a professional person.
The hon. member is saying that I instructed him when I had
to defend him,. to leave the Island, and I told him the hon.
senior member for St. Philip that because Mr. Alleyne
had no case, I instructed him to leave the Island. I never
said this because when the hon. member asked me about a
particular case, I said that the man was acquitted by Magis-
trate Brandford Griffith in the afternoon. Never in the
whole of my legal career have I advised any person to leave
the Island. I told several persons that I would not be seen
by that case; you never had a case. I have never in all of
my legal dealings told anyone to leave the Island. The man
was acquitted by Magistrate Griffith and he could have
left the Island, but not by my advice.

Mr. CRAWFORD: The records of the courts are there.
I challenge that the records be produced because I say












most definitely that the man was never puton trial because
the hon. senior member for St. John advised him to get on
a boat and he left the Island the same night. The hon. senior
member for St. John told me that when he took the money
to Mr. R. D. N. Maxwell to be changed, every single coin
was counterfeit.

Mr. SPEAKER: That is no point of order.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point
of order. Would the two hon. members make a promise that
if I produce the records that they would retire from politics
if this man was acquitted by Magistrate Brandford Griffith?

Mr. SPEAKER: That is not a point of order. Will the
hon. senior member for the City proceed?

Mr. MOTTLEY: The hon. gentleman told this man that
he wanted to see me to discuss a matter with me. I said
what he told me. He said that he never told me so.

Mr. SPEAKER: Will the hon. member get on with the
Resolution?

Mr. MOTTLEY: This is relevant for this reason. After
all, the hon. senior member for St. John cannot make a
wild sweeping accusation like that. He pin-pointed this
thing to the Official Opposition Party and he has done it for
a reason.

Earlier this year, this same gentleman appeared at my
office at the Bridgetown City Council and after he was talk-
ing so gibly on matters of finance and the like, he told me
that he was only out here to see Federation go through. I
listened to him and he asked me if I was opposed to Inde-
pendence, and so on, But the relevance of that is this. We
found that this gentleman had a Communist background and
that this gentleman who was passing through with all this
goodwill actually said to me that he had the greatest re-
spect to actually meet a Minister to lend him $3,000. I did
not listen to one single word from him. This gentleman sat
and talked with me and tried to persuade me to do things.

As far as I am concerned, I cannot be opposed to In-
dependence. It is a difference in our approach and that is
all there is to it; therefore, I come to the relevance of that
to say this. When the Hon. Premier had pontifically and
dogmatically said that he knew 10,000 was paid out to
my party......

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of
order. When did I say that? I still want an undertaking from
the two hon. members that they will come out of politics if
I produced the records to show that this man was acquitted
by Magistrate Griffith -

Mr. MOTTLEY: Are you going to allow that to me?

Mr. SPEAKER: Thehon. member may not address the
Chair like that.

(A VOICE: Can you not teachhim some manners?)

Hon. E. W. BARROW: I said that the 10,000 or $48,000
was offered to his Party.

Mr. MOTTLEY: You said 10,000.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Is that not $48,000?I appreciate
the difficulty of the hon. Leader of the Opposition and this
position which he has put himself in, but I do not want him
to distort anything which I said during the course of the
debate.
1.30 p.m.

The Deputy Leader of his Party did not understand what
I was saying and I corrected the hon. member. If the hon.
member did not hear what I said, he should consult the Of-
ficial Report before he makes any pontifical statement.

Mr. SPEAKER: What is the alleged point of order?


Hon. E. W. BARROW: I said whom it was paid by; the
Conservative Party of Great Britain. If the hon. member
wants to draw the inference he cando so. It is a matter for
him.

Mr. MOTTLEY: The hon. memberwillbegettingup one
thousand times today. The hon. member saidthatten thou-
sand pounds was paid out by the Conservative Party......

Hon, E. W. BARROW: On a point of order. I have been
reminded of the process that I used. I said that at that
time the ten thousand pounds was not paid out to Mr. Norton
whom both you and the hon, junior member for Christ
Church met. My statement was that atthattime the money
was not handed over in Antigua, but I was not prepared to
go into the box and give evidence on oath to the effect that
it was not paid out in Barbados.

Mr. MOTTLEY: All you have to dois to try and destroy
me,

Hon, E. W. BARROW: Destroyl

Mr. MOTTLEY: Destroy whom? Carrion? Youwillget
up a million times today,
Mr. SPEAKER rose and both hon. mnebers took their
seats.
Mr. MOTTLEY: When the hon. member mentions what
he said, he thinks that as a lawyer he is clever. He said
that these persons paid out this money here. We made a
note of it here,

Hon. E. W. BARROW: On a point of order. Mr. Speaker,
the hon, member is wandering a bit and at this stage it is to
be expected of him. It is a very simple matter. We will
abide by the Official Report rather thanbythe note written
here, I am not prepared to saythatthe money was not paid
out in Barbados,

Mr, MOTTLEY: What would you say about that?
( 4 SIDES) I mean the Premier, (4SIDES) Youwereborn un-
couth.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, I take objection to
the behaviour and the language of the hon. member. Any-
body who is giving vent this mind would be agitated. I can-
not allow the hon, member to go on with his abusive language
and when he says "I meant the Premier" that he was born
uncouth.,,....

Mr, MOTTLEY: Mr. Speaker, if that is an offence I will
withdraw it; but I still feel so.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, will you instruct
the hon. member.....

Mr, SPEAKER: No one may tell me what to do.

Hon, E. W. BARROW: I know that you will instruct the
hon, member that his remarks were unparliamentary and
that he will have to withdraw them without any reservation
whatever,

Mr. SPEAKER: As to the remarks whichwereused by
the Hon, Leader of the Opposition, I regard them as coming
within the category of words which are mentioned in Stand-
ing Order 26(5). That Standing Order says this:-

"It shall be out of order to use offensive and insulting
language about Members of the House."

In my view, it is insulting to say of an hon. member
that he is uncouth even although in the present state of the
debate, there are hard things being said on both sides
across the table. I am asking the Hon. Leader of the Op-
position to assure me that he has withdrawn the word
"uncouth".

Mr. MOTTLEY: I have withdrawn that.

Mr. SPEAKER: Will the hon. member proceed?











Mr. MOTTLEY: Whenever he makes these so tto vo ce
remarks he will be answered.

Mr. SPEAKER: Those remarks should not be heard by
hon. members.

Mr, MOTTLEY: Mr. Speaker, I was making the point
that the hon member referred to meand said that this ten
thousand pounds was paid out for the purpose of preventing
Barbados from going into Independence. He said that he
knew this. If the Premier says thatMr. Sidney Alleyne said
he was here for the purpose of seeing the island go In-
dependentIndependence in a Communist bloc. Further Mr.
Sidney Alleyne told me that he was told by the Premier
whom he could go to, what Minister he should go to.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: The hon. member is going to be
allowed to go on and make hearsay allegations. That is a
very clever way of making statements against hon. mem-
bers by saying that somebody told them so. I ask the hon.
member to stick to the questionof Independence. I now hear
that Independence is a Communist bloc.

Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Speaker, you must not allow the
hon. member......

Mr. SPEAKER: I cannot prevent any on. member from
prefacing his remarks with the words "I rise on a point of
order." Sometimes what is referred to as a point of order
is concisely spoken, at other times it is spoken at con-
siderable length. However, I am relying on hon. members
to see that they do not make lengthy points of order. Let
the Hon. Leader of the Opposition continue on the subject
matter of the Resolution.
1.40 p.m.

Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Speaker, the Hon. Premierinthe
course of his debate said he did not understand what we
were debating, and he also said that he expected that the
Leader of the Opposition would have seconded it. I should
say in fairness to him that he accused me yesterday of mak-
ing a lot of statements. The hon. member does not want me
to speak loudly, yet he is cupping his ears to bear.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: On a point of order, I prefer
the dulcet tones which the hon. member was using just now,

Mr. SPEAKER: I amnot surethatthat is a point of
order.

Mr. MOTTLEY: The hon. member accused meof mak-
ing statements and of indulging in matters too high for me,
and then he proceeded to read out the Minutes from the
Tenth Meeting of the Regional Council of Ministers. What I
wanted to say to the hon. member yesterday and which I
refrained from doing because I knew what would happen is
that I repeated these statements from what was published in
the Press to the effect that the Premier had walked out of
the Conference. The hon, member inferred that I had told
people I knew what had happened at the Conference. This
was published in the Press, but the Premier has for the
first time now brought to the public the real facts or what
are supposed to be the facts of what occurred at the Tenth
Meeting of the Regional Council of Ministers. I am sorry
he was nothere at first, because there was a lot of ex-
traneous matter which the hon. member indulged in, but
he has never denied any of this.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: On a pointoforder, Mr. Speaker,
what the bon. member is saying is far from the facts. When
I make corrections of anything even as Minister in charge
of Finance or as Chairman of the Cabinet, the newspapers
in this country do not publish anything which I have said. I
am saying categorically that on several occasions Ipointed
out that the newspapers were deliberatelymisrepresenting
what had taken place. They were in no position to know
what had taken place, because theywere not present, and at
several other meetings I told the members of the general
public that it was untrue to say that any Conference had
broken up as a result of my leaving the Conference Room.
The Financial Secretary and I left the meeting between


three to five minutes before the adjournment, and I read
out about 27 items which were dealt with subsequent to that
adjournment of the Tenth Meeting of the Regional Council
of Ministers. The hon. member is sayingthat I have never

denied that. I have to deny things every day through the
Government Information Officer, and in several cases when
the newspapers deliberately misrepresented the proceed-
ings or misreported what had taken place in Government
circles, only in 5%0 of the cases do they condescend to put
in their expurgated version of the correctionwhichwe have
to make,

Mr. MOTTLEY: The hon. member has never denied
this.

Mr. SPEAKER: The Hon. and Learned member for St.
John has said that he has denied it.

Mr. MOTTLEY: I am entitled to say he did not.

Mr. SPEAKER: I am not saying otherwise, but do not
let us continue on for the balance of the day saying it has
not been denied.

Mr. MOTTLEY: I would say that the last hour of the
Premier's Speech was the first time that he really en-
lightened us on any matters connected withthe Conference
on Federation. All the other things which he said was just
abuse and harangue.

As I said, Sir, after the WhitePaper was laid in here,
there was the question of debating it. The hon. member ac-
cused me of going all over this island and saying things
about him as an individual when in fact I spoke at three
meetings on this matter. Declared my policyon the matter
and that was the end of it. As far as I am concerned, the hon.
member laboured in here and brought forth a mouse. The
general public knows our stand and theGovernment's stand
in this matter. The Hon. Premier has regularlymisrepre-
sented the facts by saying that we are opposed to Indepen-
dence. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is only
a question of approach.

When the Report on the East Caribbean Federation
Conference 1962 was discussed, I made certain suggestions
and certain amendments. The hon. member said that if he
had heard what I had said, he would not be in that position
today. I discussed the matter with the bon. member, but I
did not want it to be felt that I was encouraging anybody to
oppose the idea of a Federation. We were not kept posted
with all the happenings at the meetings of the Regional
Council of Ministers after 1962, but it now suits the hon.
member to point out that Sir Arhur Lewis said that it is not
in the best interest to bring members of the Opposition and
others into matters of this sort.

The Preamble at the bottom of the first page of the
Resolution which we are now discussing reads as follows:-

"AND WHEREAS the Government of Barbados, re-
affirming its dedication to the principle of Regional Asso-
ciation, will continue after Independence to work in close
co-operation with the Governments and Peoples of other
Commonwealth Caribbean Countries to promote by joint
endeavour the complete political social and economic
emancipation of all classes in all territories:"

Now after listening to and assessing what the Hon.
Premier said yesterday about the various Ministers in the
territories, you have to come to the conclusion that there
is no good in Federation. He talked about these Impover-
ished islands like Monterrat and St. Lucia, and he said he
knew Mr. Compton all these years.
1.50 p.m.

If this Preamble is correct, which we all believe, and
the Resolution itself says "And Whereas the Government
of Barbados, reaffirming its dedication to the principle
of Regional Association, will continue after Independence
to work in close co-operation with the Governments and
Peoples of other Commonwealth Caribbean countries......"











HonL E. W. BARROW: I never suspected that the hon.
member had such opinions of legal practitioners.

Mr. SPEAKER: Let the hon. member make his point.

Hon, E. W. BARROW: The hon. member has suggested
that after I made certain statements about inequality of
the other Islands that we were going on to say that after
Independence we would go in for Federation. The para-
graph in question says: "And Whereas the Government of
Barbados reaffirming its dedication to the principle of
Regional Association, we will continue after Indepen-
dence to work in close co-operationwith the Government
and Peoples of other commonwealth Caribbean Countries
to promote by joint endeavour the complete political
social and economic emancipation of all classes in all
territories."

Where does the word "Federation" appear in that?

Mr. MOTTLEY: If you call it by a different name,
what does it mean? It says: "And Whereasthe Government
of Barbados, reaffirming its dedication to the principle
of Regional Association, will continue after Independence
to work in close co-operation with the Governments and
Peoples of other Commonwealth Caribbean Countries to
promote by joint endeavour the complete political......

What does "Political" mean?

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Political emancipation.

Mr, SPEAKER: What has the hon. and learned senior
member for St. John risen on?

Hon, E. W. BARROW: The hon, senior member for the
City quotes and comes to the word "political" and asks
"what does that mean?" The word "emancipation" is
after that,

Mr. SPEAKER: When the hon. leader of the Opposition
posed that question, I assumed it to be a rhetorical ques-
tion,

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Or, seeking information.

Mr. MOTTLEY: The Hon, Premier has the idea that
only they can interpret things,

Mr. SPEAKER: Everybody is entitled to have some
idea.

Mr. MOTTLEY: The Hon, Premier said that Ido noth-
ing else but go and consult Mr. Jack Dear, Does he wait
me to consult a bricklayer who lays brick or the lawyers
of my Party?'

Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. member can go and consult
him so long as he gives him an appropriate Retainer.

Mr. MOITLEY:. What else can it mean? When you
think of these "Whereas" and "And Whereas" in the pre-
amble,how do you feel? If this was written by the Hon.
Premier it shows you his tirades onthese islands and their
poverty. He is tellingthem what to do and what not to do, This
reminds me that in Jamaica there was the question of a
referendum, I agree with the Hon. Premier that we do not
want any referendum, or proportional representation. The
hon. member thinks that we are asking him about that. If
he thinks so, he is making the greatest mistake in his life.

It is true that human nature is subject to change. The
Hon. Premier said that one thing which can bolster his
stand and his Party in that they should go for Independence
is what the Governor in his Speech said. It reads like this
on page 14:-

"The constitutional changes which I have enumerated
now make the way clear for the achievement of Independence
for Barbados, to which end my Government is firmly
dedicated." The Hon. Premier speaks in this typical of a


lawyer. It goes on: "In this connection my Government
feels that Barbados can seek Independence either in a
Federation, if a Federation is established on satisfactory
terms, or if necessary alone."

My argument and my contention is that the Hon. Pre-
mier only read the first part. If you take the first part
within the context it would appear as if he meant the
achievement of independence for Barbados alone; but if
you went on to read, it still appears as if the Government
was committed to the principle of Federation. I do not
think anyonewould disagreewiththat. Idonot think the
Hon. Premier would object to that. You let it be felt that
you started the whole idea of Federation, and therefore you
were going along with it.

I cannot say it too often that we cannot be opposed to
Independence. How can anybody be really opposed to Indepen-
dence?

When Federation was first discussed, we found the
Government was very strong on the matter as well as
everybody in here to an extent. When I made a certain
Amendment in opposing the Government's Resolutionon the
1962 conference, the Hon. Minister of Education said then
that he could not accept my amendment. If he accepted it,
he would have to tender his resignation to the Cabinet. He
was strong at the time on Federation and they voted against
my amendment.

At this stage, Mr. Speaker, Iam moving that the sitting
of this House be suspended for half an hour.

Mr. LYNCH: I beg to second that.
The question uas put and resolved in the affirmative
without di vision, an d Mr. SPEAKER suspended the sit-
ting accordingly.
2.00 p.m.
On re-assembling,
Mr. LOWE: Mr. Speaker, there is no quorumpresent,
and I ask that the Bell be rung.

Mr. SPEAKER: I am grateful to the hon. member for
drawing that matter to my attention. Let the Bell be rung.
,/a the iell being rung, a quorum was obtained.

Mr, SPEAKER: When the Sitting was suspended, the
Hon, Leader of the Opposition was addressing the House on
a Resolution which I will read again:-

"Resolution requesting Her Majesty's Principal
Secretary of State for the Colonies to convene, at the
earliest opportunity, a Conference to arrange the Consti-
tutional, financial, defence and other details incidental to,
and arising from the assumption, by the People of Barba-
dos, of Sovereign Nationhood within the Commonwealth in
1966,

Is the Hon. Leader of the Opposition desirous of con-
tinuing his Address?

Mr. MOTTLEY: Yes, Sir. Mr. Speaker, I think on
the occasion of the suspension of the sitting one had made
it abundantly clear, lest the reckless misinterpretation and
the twisted and malignant remarks that my Party is opposing
Independence for Barbados take any root, Iwillrepeat what
I said at the beginning. We are not opposed to Independence,
although the touts would be opposed to Independence. It
does not matter what hue, political complexionorpigmen-
tation we may be, we could not beopposed to Independence,
The Hon, Premier has referred to the entire background
of this country, and what the Premier inherited we feel
that those of us who have had the opportunity of handling
the affairs of this country, are responsible for it and so,
in this particular way, we are in a position to be a pattern
for other colonial territories. There is one thing of which
I am proud, and that is when I go through all these terri-
tories which are Crown Colonies, although we have had











housing in Barbados, we do not have that housing in the
slums to the extentwhichis found inthese other territories.


The Hon. Premier's speech was a sort of harangue
and only in the last one and a half hours did we really get
some information about the Federaton. Instead of object-
ing to things, he should have conceded more information
on the situation as we would like to know. We are not
opposed to Independence, but what we feel is that the
approach should be a different one. The Minister of
Education, when we made amendments to this Resolution,
said that he could not accept any amendment and you will
therefore see how strong they were in favour of Federation.
The Premier said here that what he did not understand
about me was that I was somewhat wavering on the ques-
tion of Federation. If you put some sort of reliance in a
man who contended strongly for Federation, would you not
weigh his arguments and say that they are right? I have
listened to all the arguments and the Premier said that
Sir Arthur Lewis had said that it was not in the best
interest to take members of the Opposition to this Regional
Council of Ministers' Conference. I must emphasise and
stress that the hon. member, for the first time today,
said how he came down from the Conference. I was passing
through the room and he asked me! "What have you got
against Independence alone?" I said that I have nothing
against it, but I have discussed this matter with my
Party and we feel that we should make another attempt
at Federation. They were behind closed doors and I saw in
the Press where it was said that the Premier walked out of
the Conference room. If he said that the Press did not pub-
lish it, how are you going to accuse us of knowing anything
about it? He said that the Press did not publish it but we
heard all about how this Conference was broken up. People
were holding meetings as if an Election campaign was on.
We did not agree withanyReferendum being called for, and
therefore we had no quarrel with the Premier about it. I
admit that I was sceptical about Federation. I made amend-
ments and I admitted what I said to the Hon. Premier; that
is, I noticed that these chaps down the islands I am not
quite sure if they are continuing about this matter

It seems to me that the salaries would prevent them
from leaving their territories and coming into the Federa-
tion and that would settle its fate as with Sir Grantley, The
people who are running Barbados were never afraid of the
Colonial Office. This was since the year 1639, long before
the liberation of my people in Africa. Mr. Speaker, wherever
you had the minority rule similar to that of Barbados, there
was always trouble before we took over. I was shocked one
night I went to listento meeting and people made mention
of constitutional advancement and they came down to Sir
Conrad Reeves. Who could say that Sir Conrad Reeves had
not done something for the constitutional advancement of
this colony? When you changed the life membership of the
Legislative Council to the age of 75 years, there was a hue
and cry; but that went through. One could quote from Sir
Gordon Leacock who was a strong supporter in continuing
certain reforms in the Legislature. One man cannot run this
country. When it is said that "it is good for us to dwell to-
gether in unity", of course there is close racial distinction
and distinction between families. We, in Barbados, are at
such a turn over that we can agree that we could be a shining
example for the other territories oftheWest Indies. There
could be no question about that. Whenyouget the hon. Pre-
mier pontificating and making people believe that what he
said is that the all in all- he said that Iwas sceptical inthis
whole matter and, of course, I was sceptical.
2.50 p.m.


I could have made the same demagogic speech and done
like Bustamante, but I did not do that. In the exercise of In-
dependence, I realized my position and I could have brought
people to harangue. I have seen a Minister drive up and a
man with a placard get out of his car at meetings; yet you
talk about people not encouraging this sort of thing. This
exercise could have gone on in this country without any
rancour or ill feeling, and fortunately for me I am p erson a


grata and I move around people. Yougetloyal fanatics who
will tell you stupidness, and when the hon. member says
that if anybody touches the head of his Ministers there
would be blood, let him know that if anybody touches the
head of Ernest Deighton Mottley, there will be blood too.

I am going to quote, Mr. Speaker, from the Official
Gazette of 12th February, 1963. I will not attempt to say
anything until the Premier comes back in the House, or
degrade any Minister whose duty it is to make notes for the
Hon. Premier to refer to, although in the most unsavoury
terms. The Ministers are doing what I think is right to be
done, because if I were not here, I would expect my mem-
bers to do that. I am not going to go into that gutter talk
which the Hon. Premier has indulged in, and which can only
be characterized as being near or in the gutter. I will quote:

"The idea that the Islands of the Eastern Caribbean
Federation are impoverished territories who would expect
Barbados to support them is also nonsensical."

That is the hon. senior member for St. John on the
floor of the House in 1963. I was sceptical then, but this is
what he said:

"Therefore, let us not get embroiled into any argu-
ment about who is going to have the industries because if one
territory has all or if each has an equal number, it is not
going to matter because we are going to have entrenched
into the Constitution freedom of movement, and we are also
having a common tariff and free trade throughout the area. "

I will read part of the debate that was really shocking
when I read it, and it shows how people can indulge in this
hypocrisy and double talk so soon. He said:

"I can almost give you an undertaking that with the
wider markets which will be created, with Customs Union
and Freedom of Movement, I doubt very much whether we
will have to go to the British Government asking for loans,
because the upsurge of capital which is willing to come into
this area for a multiplicityof reasons willpreclude us from
going to any country to ask for loans."

And on page 22, this is what the Hon. Premier says:

"To have an independent nation is averylaudable ob-
jective, but there is no point inhaving an independent nation
of serfs, an independent nation living at low standards or an
independent nation of unemployed people. It is far better for
us to have a federal state withfull employment than to have
an independent island of Barbados with 26,000 unemployed
people "

That is what the Hon. and Learned Premier of Barba-
dos said on the floor of this Housetwo years ago. Between
then and now he has carried on this exercise. Those of us
who were skeptical did not want it to appear that we were
lending any hand to preventing this closer associationof the
units, because, believe it or not, from Jamestown on the
mainland to Bridgetown which is the most easterly of the
Caribbean islands, we have one thing in common, and it is
that wherever there is poverty anywhere, it is a block to
prosperity anywhere, and I did not think it would be right
for me to engage myself in anyexercisethat would prevent
the coming 1 together of these islands. They will have to
come together some time. I understand that it was said at
a meeting that I was in this Party for twenty years. I went
into this Party at a time when I could convince the people
I was among that the time had come to bridge the gap. I feel
I have made my contribution, and ifthehon. member wants
to have my bones interred for having served this country,
that would be a matter for him.

Mr. Speaker, I challenge any man to say that I have
voted or done anything on the floor of this House against the
progress or advancement of the masses of this country. The
one exception was when I voted against picketing at peo-
ple's homes and I would do it again because I do not think it
is right and in the interest of the masses. There seems to












be some annoyance because of my association with people
like the hon. member on my left who has a different pig-
mentation from mine, and the hon, member said that I
picked up Mr. Leacock and sent him to the Senate. Of course
I had the right to nominate and I nominated him: but you also
nominated a man called Mr. Johnson. Well, you can look at
Mr. Johnson and compare him with Mr. Leacock.
3.00 p.m.

I sent a manwho as Chairman has millions and millions
of dollars invested in the sugar industry, I have made it
clear that I would never be able to run this country. I am
accused of sending a man with ability, a man with University
education there: but do you think that I am worried? You
get all this talk. Lots of people got in here and said some
funny things. The hon. member must learn, Thattype of be-
haviour should not take place in here. He said that they go
behind closed doors and say whom they want to mix with,
You just watch them privately and you will see what they
want.

What did the Hon, Premier say? He said it is better to
goonwith this federation than to have an independent nation
of serfs. If I were a man who did not have some regard and
respect for the utterances of the Hon, Premier I would not
care what he said of the Federation. Here is a man, Pro-
fessor Arthur Lewis, who has devoted himself to the study
of the economics of these islands. He has said, and I be-
lieve it, that it would be better to have a Federation.

I am not talking about what appeared in the Press. It
appears that the Hon. Premier walked out of the last meet-
ing of the Regional Council of Ministers and the meeting
broke up. We felt, when we met in the interest of Caribbean
unity, that we should do what we can to come together in
this manner: but we are not opposed to Independence. We
have been watching the Colonial Office, despite the fact that
the Hon. Premier thinks nobody can understand anything in
this he alone can understand.

Now, because we have adopted a different approachto
this matter, I have been told that I am insincere, Where is
the insincerity? Mr. Speaker, I say that the mountain was
in labour and has brought forth a mouse. Only at the last
moment did the Hon. Premier do anything. In actual fact
he told us why he changed his mind. He said that one morn-
ing he went to sleep and about four o'clock, he woke and
found himself with a tremendous sweat. It was not until
then that he realized that something was happening and he
phoned and conferred with his Ministers. The Hon. Premier
did not tell us what happened. He said that he was skeptical,

Sir, you leave Barbados; you are in opposition to the
Government; but when you are at the conference in London,
it is a question of your thinking what it means to Barbados
first. It does not matter who the Leader of the delegation is:
you are thinking of Barbadians first: therefore, when you
see something that would operate against the interest of
Barbadians, you must draw it to the Leader of the delega-
tion's attention. If tomorrow I was called onto go, despite
the rancour of the Hon. Premier, I would do the same thing.

You have this talk about having a Federation. Could the
Hon. Premier say that he ever heard any member of my
Party saying this? I challenge the hon, member that he has
never heard us saying that. As a matter of fact, the hon.
member said that that is absolutely untrue, and the state-
ment cannot bear scrutiny about Mr. Bird was a carpenter
and Mr. Bird was this-and-that. The Hon. Premier knows
very well at which meeting that was said.

The Hon. Premier said that Iwas speakingwithout any
advice at all. I did not come inhere joining any Party. The
Hon. Premier knows well enough that Ido not want to go to
England; but despite his rancour, if Iwerecalled on to go,
whatever would be in the interest of Barbadians, I would
vote for it.

Sir, I was fortunate enough to be successful in life.
That is only a question of fate being kind to me. Do you
think that I would want a free trip? If I wanted a free trip


out of Government's expense, I would play the dog-in-the-
manger for it. As Ihave said, the mountain was in labour and
you have brought forth a mouse.
3.10 p.m.

You know, Sir, we had an idea of what the Embassies
and the like would cost us. That never worried us. What we
were worried about was this. When it comes to the question
of industrialisation for Barbados the Hon. Premier accused
us of lard oil talk, Hunte talk and that sort of thing. Of
course, he willlive longenoughtogetover that. We feel that
industrialisation for Barbados is a "must" and industriali-
sation for Barbados came through this Party. Whether they
like it or not, tourism also camethroughthis Party and we
had to fight it for years. Fortunately, this Government was
then in the Opposition and they joined us in the fight: but it
was this Party which brought forward the idea of indus-
trialisation for Barbados. When the hon. member spoke
about hon, members not doing their home work, he cannot
measure people's gallon-pot by his bushel. We have never
used that stupid argument, that small-time argument. The
question is asked: what is the position of Barbados with
200,000 odd people when it has to pay $200,000 for Em-
bassies. We are not worried about somebodygettinga job:
we have always argued about the big questionof industriali-
sation. The Premier has said that he had hoped the time is
not far distant when we would industrialise more.

On this question of Embassies, people might think
about it as businessmen and of what it would cost to send
somebody to England, Canada and so on. We say that while
we are not opposed to Independence, we would certainly
feel that there should be Independence in a Federation,

There was no denial that only 55 of the releases which
have been sent by the Information Department to the Press
have ever been printed. Ihope thatthe Press will be decent
enough to look that matter up and see if what they printed
was untrue and caused the Opposition to take the stand
which we are taking today. It was a revelation to us to lis-
ten to the things which happened. We had no representative
up there, and therefore we could not know what was hap-
pening. As far as we are concerned, this matter of having
another vote, another try, cannot hurt. Whether the Leader
of the Government of Montserrat or the Leader of the Gov-
ernment of Dominica had an opportunity to go to the Uni-
versity or not, whether it is a matter of letters or not, I
say that whatever the Premier of Barbados or the Chief
Minister of Barbados might be, he is a humble man who
has risen to a positionof leadership and he knows the needs
of his country. Therefore, there is no point in making
statements which are derogatory to people. When we refer
to Mr. Bramble, Mr. Bird, Mr. Bousquet and Mr. Bradshaw,
we are human beings all over the world; and if you have a
feeling otherwise, then you are closing the door against
them.

Now, Sir, I quote this paragraph of the Resolution:-

"AND WHEREAS the Government of Barbados, reaf-
firming its dedication to the principle of Regional Associa-
tion, will continue after Independence to work in close co-
operation with the Governments and Peoples of other
Commonwealth Caribbean Countries to promote by joint
endeavour the complete political, social and economic
emancipation of all classes in all territories:"

Does it seem to any of youthat there is any intention of
having any political association? I say that the answer to
that question is absolutely "No". Unfortunately, the Hon.
Premier is not in his place. Wethoughtthat we would have
had some information on the constitution and what en-
trenched laws there would be. This is just going on to ha-
rangue anybody who is not prepared to say "Yes", or this
is just another doubt of any person who was prepared to
stick to his ideas. I say "Greater is he that controlleth
his tongue than he who has made a nation." I think I have
made my contribution to the debate. I understand that there
is an amendment whichhas beenproposed to the Resolution
and Ihope Iwillhave anopportunityto deal with the amend-
ment,


I












Mr. WALCOTT:On a point of order. Mr. Speaker
there is no such Standing Order which would permit the hon.
member to speak again. The motion for the amendment is
already in, and it is inescapable forhimto lose the oppor-
tunity for speaking on that motion. Youlookat the Standing
Orders and you will see what is the position where there is
any motion which is put in as an amendment to the Reso-
lution, which seeks to omit a certain paragraph and sub-
stitute another. The hon. member is making an attempt to
circumvent the Standing Orders of this House. The amend-
ment which was moved by a member of his Party seeks to
omit certain words and the hon, member has the oppor-
tunity to speak on this amendment. The motion is before the
House now.
3.20 p.m.

I am not going to sit in here and allow you to come back
and say you are speaking onthe amendmentwhich is before
the House now.

Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Speaker, the hon, member is
directing you on how to rule,

Mr. SPEAKER: Let not the hon, member attempt to
make that mistake; no one can so direct. I am always
grateful for the assistance of hon. members.

Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Speaker, you will realise that I
spoke and made no reference to the amendment. Notice
has been given of the amendment which has not been
seconded, and you will notice what Standing Order No. 26
(17) says: so you will have to rule.

Mr. SPEAKER: If and when the occasion arises, I will
rule. I am fully cognisant of Standing Order No. 26 (17) -
in fact of all the Standing Orders.

Mr. MOTTLEY: I will just draw to your attention,
Mr. Speaker, that while I was speaking I made no mention
of or referred to any amendment at all. Further you will
appreciate that the amendment before the House has to be
seconded. That is my contribution up to the present time.

Mr. WALCOTT: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, I
am not going in for these sand-side arguments. I am ask-
ing Your Honour to rule now.

Mr. SPEAKER: I have no intention of ruling in antici-
pation. If and when the time comes, Iwill rule.

Mr. WALCOTT: I should like to draw to Your Honour's
attention that under these Rules, it has been suggested
that no amendment has been put in. I am submitting that
an amendment has been put in, and the question of it not
being seconded does not mean that the amendment has not
been proposed by a member to be seconded now.if there is
an amendment, Your Honour would have to put the question
for the House to take a vote on it; but to suggest at this
stage that there is no amendment, is to suggest that what
the hon. member has already put in and handed to the
Clerk is nothing at all and therefore forms no part of the
debate, and will have to be expunged from the records.
The hon. senior member for St. Michael made an amend-
ment and spoke on it before it was seconded; so no one can
say that there was no motion because it was not seconded.
That is only glorified ignorance.

Mr. SPEAKER: The hon, senior member for St. Peter
has made his point which is clearly understood. His sub-
mission has been noted, and I will rule in due course if
and when the occasion arises.

Mr. WALCOTT: A suggestion has beenmade thatthere
is no motion because it has not been seconded, therefore
the hon. member had no right to speak on anything he
proposes until it is seconded.

Mr. SPEAKER: Does the hon. junior member for
Bridgetown who seconded the motion of the Hon. Leader
of the Opposition for the suspension desire not to speak?


Mr. LYNCH: Mr. Speaker, I should first of all like
with your permission to make my position clear in this
debate. As I came to the House just now, someone stopped
me and told me that he heard that I was either going to
abstain when the time for voting came or be absent. I told
him that it was obvious he does not know me, because I am
neither an abstainer nor a swerver. Anyone can be con-
vinced that I will vote with my Party when the time comes
as long as I am alive. Having made my position clear, I
will now proceed to add what I can to this debate.

The question revolves upon whether Barbados should g6
independent within a Federation or whether it should go
independent alone. 'The former view had been most ad-
mirably advocated by hon, members who now sit on the
Government benches, and it would be perhaps a tedious
exercise to quote from the spate of oratory which the
suggestion that we go intoFederationwiththe other mem-
bers of the Eastern Caribbean provoked from them; but I
will not indulge in that tedious exercise. At the beginning
I will say, that I am not one of the people who have learned
to trace the days' disaster from anybody's morning face,
and so the question of my voting will depend upon my con-
science and my mind which is already made up. It may be
for others to vote according to how the wind blows or
according to other temporary considerations which will
influence them. I fortunately, Mr. Speaker, am not one of
those. I will quote from Sir Arthur Lewis, distinguished
economist, known world-wide, who says in his "Agony of
the Eight":

"The maintenance of good governmentirequires a
federal structure. In a small island dominated by a single
political party, it is very difficult to prevent political
abuse. Everybody depends on the Government for some-
thing, however small, so most are reluctant to offend it."

Some people, Mr. Speaker, in small communities can-
not even make up their minds for fear they may displease
someone in the Government. He goes on to say:

"The Civil Servants live in fear; the police avoid un-
pleasantness; the Trade Unions are tied to the Party; the
newspaper depends on Government advertisements; and
so on.

This is true even if the political leaders are absolutely
honest. The only safeguard against this is federation."

So spoke Sir Arthur Lewis, distinguished Economist,
and one who enjoyed the favour and confidence of nearly
all the Governments in power in the Eastern Caribbean
territories.

At this stage in our development there is no one who
would argue against Independence, and so to say that we
who occupy the seats on this sideof the House are against
Independence is to foist a deliberate lie into the minds
of the electorate. All we are asking is that we embark upon
a form of Independence which economically and financially
is likely to redound to the benefit of those who would follow
us in this community.

It was the Committee of Twenty-four of the United
Nations which insistedthatcertain forms of Independence
or trusteeship should replace colonialism all over the in-
habited earth. Therewereplaces wherefull independence
met the need, places like Malaya and Nigeria; there were
other places where full internal self-government was
enough the type of Government which has been recom-
mended for the Windwards and Leewards; therewere other
places which were so small indeed that trusteeship was
the only answer.
3.30 p.m.

Now, what is the opinion of people who have given this
matter a great deal of thought as far as Barbados itself
is concerned? What is your opinion as far as association
with the other Islands in the Eastern Caribbean is con-
cerned? Sir Arthur Lewis who has spent a greater part











of his life in economic and financial matters states that
the Islands taken individually a.:e 1oo small for attention
by the World Bank, the United States Aid Agencies and other
sources of international assistance, All the principal
agencies have indicated their willingness to support
generally the Eastern Caribbean Federation and have
indicated their unwillingness to become involved with
each by those who are going it along and have declared
their intention to take us into independence alone whether
or not the people of Barbados would be abiding by this
decision. We have to consider this matter calmly, and with
the avoidance of personalities. But we will not adopt
that attitude. We are asked by the public to argue this case
calmly and dispassionately and show where the best
future for Barbados lies.
Now, trusteeship of course, is out of the question for
small countries like Barbados, We already have full
internal self-government. We are now deciding whether
it would not be better for us to go into a Federation
with such of the Eastern Caribbean territories as are
still willing to go into a federation with us. Remember
that Sir Arthur Lewis said not too long ago that if we went
into a Federation with one Island, even two, it would be
more than one, and he was prepared to go into a federation
with one single island.
I have heard that from so eminent an authority. We
are therefore able to discuss the possibility of our enter-
ing a federation with such of the Eastern Caribbean
territories as are still willing. We must remember
tha. the Chief Ministers of those territories have made
one or two mistakes. They have been humiliated on the
floor of this House; but people who are leaders of nations,
however small, have to learn how to accept these things
and come back with a smile and remember that the public
good is more important than private revenge.

Now, the attitude adopted by the li il. Premier accus-
ing all those people who did not agree with the Government
on every subject is the one which is taken, and one cannot
help remembering the fulminations of the hon, senior
member for St. John when he came on the floor of the
House in respect of the Banks question. One cannot help
remembering the slander that was spread about "work
or starve" and very recently we well remember what was
said about the West Indian Hospital Sweepstake. On all of
this whenthe Hon. Premier found he was wrong, he hurriedly
backtracked. We over here could only smile. To arrogate
to oneself the power to being always in the right and tryto
deceive people -

Mr, WALCOTT: Mr, Speaker, I'rise on a point of order.
The hon. member cannot make reference about people try-
ing to deceive,

Mr, SPEAKER: I do not think the hon. member com-
pleted his sentence. The hon, member made some refer-
ence to "deceive". I would like him to repeat what he has
said to be satisfied that he is not infringing the rule of
imputing improper motives against another member,

Mr. LYNCH: I went on to say, to arrogate to oneself
the power to being always in the right and try to deceive
people who know better,". That is as far as I got.

Mr. WALCOTT: That could not be in order, because
reference was made to the Premier and it could mean that
the Premier's conduct was one to try to deceive. The hon.
member said that he tried to arrogate this to himself. If the
hon. member is insisting that he said "he tried to deceive"
it would be very bad.

Mr. LYNCH: I was about to restare my former re-
marks. If you want me to do so -

Mr. SPEAKER: I am going to call for the official
record.
3,40 p.m.

Mr. SPEAKER: I trust hon. members are not under the
erroneous impression that the sitting has been suspended.


Y


4fter dcecking with the Official Reporter,


Mr. SPEAKER: I will now read the Official Record of
what was said. This is what it said: "Very recently we still
remember about the West Indies Hospital Sweepstake. All
of this we have heard when the hon. senior member for St.
John found that he was wrong and heard the back chat..."

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, the word used was
"backtrack", not "back chat".

Mr. SPEAKER: I am in a very awkward position now
because the Official Report has the words backchatt" in-
stead of the words "back-track". Of course, before the
Official Record is enshrined in Hansard it is subject to
editorship by the Clerk of the House and it may well be that
he will agree that the word used was back-track".

Mr. LYNCH: The hon. member's correction is right.
The word backchatt" is not within my vocabulary.

Mr. SPEAKER: The Official Record continues as fol-
lows:-

"We over here could only smile. For one to arrogate,
to one's self the power to be always in the right and try to
deceive people....."

There the Official Record ends because at that point
the interjection of the hon, senior member for St. Peter
appears. In other words, there is in the Official Record as
I am advised an incomplete sentence which reads as fol-
lows:

"For one to arrogate to one's self the power to be al-
ways in the right and try to deceive people......"

There we have the interruption. There is no intended
disrespect when I use the word "interruption" of the hon.
senior member for St. Peter.
3.50 p.m,

Mr. WALCOTT: Are yousuggestingthatthehon. mem-
ber was not speaking about the hon. senior member for
St. John when he said "one who tries"? He did not use the
same name in each sentence. We have different ways in
English of referring to people other than by their name,
After he referred to the hon. senior member for St. John
he went on to say that these are the things he did, he
back-tracked and now he arrogates unto himself that he
knows all, and he back-tracked and tries to deceive. He
could only mean the hon. senior member for St. John, and
I say that it is a positive coward who says that and when he
is caught is not willing to withdraw.

Mr. LYNCH: Perhaps the hon. member would tell me
what I intended saying.

Mr. WALCOTT: I am saying that you are not fit to
use the phrase "trying to deceive" to any one in here,
because we have positive evidence that we can bring with
documentary proof to the contrary, and something that
will name you if you talk about someone who tries to de-
ceive.

Mr. SPEAKER: So far as what was said is concerned,
I could not agree more with the hon. senior member for
St. Peter that if it is said in here of any hon. member that
he tried to deceive, such would be a clear infringement
of Standing Order No. 26 (7) and that it is an imputation
of improper motives. In the context of the Official record,
so far as the hon. junior member for Bridgetown had
proceeded, he had said nothing more than that "for one to
arrogate to himself the power to be always in the right
do not, so far as the record goes, hold that the hon. junior
member for Bridgetown has imputed an improper motive
to any member.

Mr. LYNCH: I mentioned no member, Mr. Speaker.
I said for one to do so-and-so. However, I will continue.
For one to arrogate to himself the power of always being











right, for one to try to deceive, for one to deny to others
the right of criticising one's actions, these things would
not be for the good of the public weal. These things, I
repeat, would not be for the good .......

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order,
I am sorry to have to interrupt the hon. member, but since
he has continued to speak and I have listened to him
completing the sentence, if he is not referring to the hon.
senior member for St. John, it is the most nonsensical
thing I have ever heard. The whole point is this: Thehon.
member has recited certain incidents in the life of this
Government with which the hon. senior member for St.
John was involved. He started with Haggatts, then Banks
Brewery and then the Hospital Sweepstake Fund, in all of
which to some extent the hon. senior member for St. John -
and I am paraphrasing now back-tracked on whatever
policies he enunciated on these three things, and when the
hon. senior member for St. John back-tracked on them that
side of the House could only smile. Then he continues the
same contextual phrase to say that for one who can do this
and do that etc. etc. If thehon, member is saying he is not
referring to the hon. senior member for St. John, he might
as well conclude his speech at that point, because it has
no reference to anything at all inside or outside of this
Chamber, and I am sure it is in his interest and he would
not wish to be talking nonsense.

Mr. SPEAKER: May I point out that according to the
Official record as supplied to me, the hon. member did not
say "for one who arrogated" but he did say "for one to
arrogate", and so far as the words "to back-track" are
concerned, the record discloses that what was said was
"found out that he was wrong, and heard the back chat".

Mr. LYNCH: I said "hurriedly back-tracked".

Mr. SPEAKER: I do not recall the word "hurriedly"
was used, but I must say I am beginning to lose a certain
amount of faith in the Official record if there are so many
errors which occur within the space of so few minutes and
words. The Editor of Debates must remaininthis Chamber
throughout so that when he is editing, he will have made
sure of what has been said.

Mr. LYNCH: With Your Honour's permission, I will
continue. Much capital has been made of the fact that Bar-
bados is perfectly able financially to go it alone. This has
been a recent change of fact if we consult the Debates of
the House for Tuesday, 14th August, 1962, when the Hon.
Minister of Education -- and I am sure he will remember
it went on record as follows:-

"Mr. Speaker, a double job has beenputon this coun-
try and on this Government, and it is a job which has to be
taken on simultaneously. You cannot neglect one for another.
You cannot organise a nation on any proper basis unless
the Barbadian economy is viable and strong, and you
cannot make the Barbadian economy viable and strong
unless it is set within the context of a national commu-
nity."

This national community can only be construed to mean
a federal community. This is the Minister of Education
some months ago saying that you cannot make the Bar-
badian economy viable and strong unless it is set within
the context of a national community. There was no mention
about margarine or lard oil lobbies: there was mention only
of strength within a national community. Why the sudden and
desperate change of front? Why it is that we who are asked
to use the oil of sweet reasonableness are accused of being
criminals when they themselves have but shortly abdicated
from the stand which we nowoccupy?Wedid not make accu-
sations of that sort against them when they mooted far and
wide arguments which I have adduced. We were more than
charitable; but we who now take the stand which they for-
merly occupied are now criminals.
4.00 p.m.

To return to Sir Arthur Lewis; eminent economist, he
said that another argument related to the staffing of public
services, and the efficiency of public services upon which


a great deal of the success not only of the unitary state but
also of a Federation as indeed of anystate must depend. He
says that in these days there is a world-wide scarcity
of good professional people, such as engineers, architects,
doctors, agricultural specialists, statisticians and other
technical people. A small island of 80,000 people finds
difficulty in recruiting such people and still more difficulty
in holding them, since it has no ladder of promotion to
offer.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, Iriseon a point
of order. I would like to know what page of the booklet the
hon, junior member for the City is quoting from.

Mr. LYNCH: Page 18 paragraph 2,

Mr. SPEAKER: I am sorry I have not heard the hon.
member for St. Andrew. Did he rise on a point of order?

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Yes, Sir.

Mr. LYNCH: I was saying that Professor Arthur Lewis
said that a small island of 80,000 people find difficulty in
recruiting such people, and still more difficulty in holding
them, since it has no ladder of promotion to offer. Surely,
Mr. Speaker, we must be concerned with consideration of
this sort.

Hon, A. DaC. EDWARDS: Again, Mr. Speaker, I rise
on a point of order. The hon. member is attempting to
mislead this Chamber and he has actually misled this
Chamber when he quotes from Professor Arthur Lewis
and is referring to Barbados being amongst those terri-
tories to whom there is a scarcity of good professional
people. If the hon. member wanted to be honest -

Mr. SPEAKER: What has the hon. junior member for
St. Andrew risen on?

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Onapointoforder.'. I am
quoting from the same "The Agony of the Eight". Sir
Arthur Lewis pointed out that Barbados was a special case.
This island had always been financially independent; under
the constitution, financial irregularities could not arise; its
secondary education was so far advanced, and the numbers
returning from university education were so large, that it
had no difficulty in recruiting and keeping a technical
service.

"Most of the arguments for federating the other islands
could not be applied to Barbados.

"In recent months people have been saying that Bar-
bados wants federation so to get the other islands into a
federation so that it could dictate to them and exploit their
markets. Nobody could say this who took part in these
discussions in 1962 and 1963.

"Mr. Barrow was dragged into the federation of the
eight. The problem arose within six weeks of his becoming
Premier, when his mind was preoccupied with getting hold
of Barbados affairs. He would have liked to postpone the
whole question."

I continue to quote:-

"He came along because of a long-time friendship
with some of the other leaders, especially Mr. Bird, as
well as because of a life-long devotion to West Indian
federation.

"The people behind him were equally lukewarm. The
few potential industrialists welcomed a customs union,
which might benefit a few manufacturers. Buttourismwill
provide as much income and employment in Barbados as
manufacturing industry, and tourism does not depend on
federation."

That is why I pointed out that there was a deliberate
attempt by the hon. junior member for the City to mislead
this hon. Chamber.











Mr. SPEAKER: In the quotation which the hon. junior
member for the City made, he directed hon. members to
the point which he desired to bring to the notice of the
Committee.

Hon. E. W. BARROW: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point
of order. I happened to hear the remarks raised by the hon.
junior member for the City. I consider such a sorry
misdirection of the facts after the hon. member has stood
and expressed his views and is trying to go down in his-
tory as trying to attempt to mislead the House, I propose
to move a motion that the hon. member be suspended from
the services of this House. I just want to serve notice on
that.

Mr. BATSON: I just want to serve notice that I would be
seconding that motion.

Mr. SPEAKER: Let the hon. junior member for the
City proceed.

Mr. LYNCH: I was quoting from "The Agony of the
Eight". My advice is that Barbados is one of the Eight.
The remarks made by Sir Arthur Lewis must have if not
equal force then some considerable force in affairs of the
island of Barbados.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: I rise on a point of order. It
does not speak of the island of Barbados. Sir Arthur Lewis
was referring to the Islands of the Leeward and Windward
with a population of 80,000 people. The island of Barbados
has a population of nearly a quarter million people.

Mr. SPEAKER: Instead of the hon. member rising
by way of a point of order, he should invite the hon. mem-
ber to refer to the page and paragraph.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: I am referring to the page
which the hon. junior member for the City is reading and
on which he is attempting to build his address. What I am
referring to is on page 16 and it is the opposite to what the
hon. member has read. He read from Sir Arthur Lewis
"Agony of the Eight". He said:-

"First the Colonial Office was fed up with the West
Indies, especially after the islands had made such a mess
of federation. It wanted to get rid of them as soon as
possible,

"Secondly, the maintenance of good government re-
quires a federal structure. In a small island of 50,000 or
100,000 people dominated by a single political party, it is
very difficult to prevent political abuse."'

This does not refer to the island of Barbados. I am
just correcting the statement made bythe hon. junior mem-
ber for the City.
4.10 p,m.

Mr. SPEAKER: The question of correcting a mistake
does not arise in a point of order because the latter is sim-
ply to direct attention to the point which an hon, member
desires to bring to notice and submit it to the Speaker or
Chairman for decision.

Mr. LYNCH: I was at the point where I was interrupted
- page 18 paragraph 2 -- where Sir Arthur Lewis says that
"the small islands find difficulty in recruiting professional
people" and the people mentioned are engineers, architects,
doctors, agricultural specialists, statisticians and other
technical people. I am developing the argument that the
same people, if not with equal force, with some consider-
able force, are required for Barbados. Barbados is a small
island and has been, up to the time of this debate, one with
a small population. Therefore, it would be inconceivable
that we could attract here to Barbados, if we gained Inde-
pendence alone, people of the necessary calibre to develop
the island,,as we would be ableto attract them, if we moved
into a Federation. That is the argumentwhichI was trying
to develop. If it cannot permeate into certain personalities,
I cannot help that. If it applies to other small islands, then
it will also apply to Barbados, whichis also a small island.


Any argument which applies to the small islands must also
apply to the Island of Barbados. This is what Sir Arthur
Lewis said: "A small island of 80,000 people finds diffi-
culty in recruiting such people, and stillmoredifficulty in
holding them, since it has no ladder of promotion to offer....

I am advocating, and will continue to advocate, that
every effort should be made with Barbados, according to
the terms of the amendment, entering into a Federal ex-
ercise with such other territories as are willing to do so.

As the hon. senior member for St. Johnhas said more
than once, Barbados would be willing to enter into a Federa-
tion even with one territory. He is on record as saying that.
Let him deny it. He said that two are more than one. That
is the principle which I am advocating, despite the attempts
at intimidation from the other side. Of course, they know
that I am not one who can easily be intimidated.

Mr. SPEAKER: Is the hon. member imputingimproper
motives to other hon. members?


Mr. LYNCH: I heard some mention being made about
suspension. Mr. Speaker, the fundamental issues in Feder-
ation are law and order,as the hon.member was careful to
point out. The only way we canget knowledge is from those
who are more intelligent thanourselves. Ithinkthat the im-
pressions which come from learned people we can adopt.
The palimipsest of the brain has impressions made upon it,
and as time goes on they deepen. Of course, these are
second-hand views; but the source of myviews is Sir Arthur
Lewis who is a distinguished man. This is what Sir Arthur
Lewis says.

"The fundamental reason for federating these Islands
is that it is the only way that good government can be as-
sured to their peoples."

That goes not only for the smaller islands, but also for
the big neighbour, as the Minister would have it, which is
Barbados. Any argument which applies to the small islands
must also apply to the island of Barbados. Of course, when
referring to the small islands, you refer to the population
and, of course, the island of St. Lucia is bigger than Bar-
bados. Let us examine some of these islands and see what
there is to be gained from coming into closer association
with them. Take the island of Dominica which has a large
amount of untapped water power; it has hundreds of rivers
and hydro-electric power; it has excellent pumice stone and
it may be a very fertile source of cement. No longer would
we have to buy our cement from Venezuela, but we have a
Caribbean Island which would supply us with cement. The
hard wood which would take some 25 to 40 years to get it
in, is there in primeval forests to be harvested. I know
that there are a number of enterprising young men who are
at the moment actively engaged on establishing a local com-
pany throughwhichwe would get citrus fruit. It is remarkable
that in Dominica you can see limes, mangoes and man-
darines lying in the gutters, whereas inBarbados you have
to pay as much as eight cents for a lime. It is true that in
England one of the enterprising Dominicans is having some
of the fruit from Dominica canned under the name of Dom
Fruit; but more could be attempted thanwhatis being done
at the moment.

Federation would be beneficial not only for the people
of Dominica, but also for the people of Barbados.

Let us consider the question of sea island cotton. The
Island of St. Vincent was at one time world famous for its
production of this sea island cotton.
4,20 p.m.

It is true, Mr. Speaker, that in these days of synthetics,
some people do not like products which last very long; but
there was at one time a concerted move against the popu-
larisation of St. Vincent Sea Island Cotton, and it has not
been selling as well in recent years as it once did; but
think of the future of such a product in a Federation if sea
island cotton could be gradually put on the world markets.
As is well known to members of this Assembly, it is an











almost indestructible product. Anyone who possesses a sea
island cotton shirt can look forward to 12, 14 or 15 years
of wear -- and I speak from personal experience. These
may not be popular nowadays, with the types we get coming
from the American manufacturers; but if this product is
developed and placed judiciously on the market, then a
great deal of benefit might well accrue, notonly to St. Vin-
cent, but to any federation inwhichSt. Vincent found itself.
This is true too of Nevis which also grows this product and
which is in great need of some kind of economic upliftment.

Mr. Speaker, there are very many products in which
some research ought to be made. There is the production
of cane in certain of the other territories of the Eastern
Caribbean where the marginal lands have not yet been used
up as they have been in Barbados. Our economy has seen to
it that nearly everypossible square foot of land in Barbados
has been used to the full; but there are marginal lands un-
touched in countries like Dominica, St. Lucia, Antigua and
the like. Arrowroot was at onetime becoming very popular
and then that was practically killed by another product
which had big money behind it. There is also the possi-
bility of the canning of fish which is so super-abundant in
the waters which wash our shores. Very little has been done
about that. I am certain that this is known to many of the
Ministers opposite. Japanese fleets have put out from the
Island of Japan and have come as far down as the West
Indian waters to fish, store the catch and carry them back
up to Japan. They come as far down as these waters in
search of fish for their fishing industry. There is a great
deal that we can do, if we will only come together and de-
cide that unity is strength, and not make scathing remarks
about our brothers in the Eastern Caribbean. It is true that
economically they may not have reached our standard; but
to the great surpriseofus all, only very recently they came
politically up to our level.

It must be noted also that before any Independence is
granted unilaterally, there are some very strange provisos
which obviously will also be applied to Barbados. Let it not
be thought that despite all the financial braggadocio which
one may be forced to listen to in here, Barbados will not
still have to conform to certain rules and regulations.
There must be a two-thirds majority in the Lower House
of a bi-cameral Legislature. Can you imagine any Govern-
ment getting a two-thirds majority in this House?

Hon. A. DaC, EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, on a point of
order, the hon. member is implying that Barbados would
have to depend on a two-thirds majority for Independence.
Again I say that is misleadingthis House, because the ques-
tion of a two-thirds majority refers to the Windward and
Leeward Islands.

Mr. SPEAKER: The point has been duly made.

Mr. LYNCH: I said nothing whatever like that. I said
there are certain rules and regulations which might also
apply to Barbados. I did not say that the rules and regu-
lations are applying at the moment to Barbados; but the
past can be the only index to the future. I pointed out that
despite the financial braggadocio to which one is subjected
at times, Barbados would haveto adhereto certain rules and
regulations. I began to cite what were the rules and regula-
tions which applied to the new association of islands of the
Eastern Caribbean. I said there must be a two-thirds
majority, and I asked whether one could imagine a two-
thirds majority in this House. Obviously the hon. member
does not understand and wanted to reply, not realising it
was a rhetorical question which needed no answer. I will
ask the question again. Can any one imagine a two-thirds
majority on the question of Independence in this House?

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, thehon, mem-
ber referred to an hon, member over here who rose on a
point of order in connection with the question of a two-
thirds majority and he made a statement saying I could not
understand. I just want thehon. member to know that I went
to school the same way as he.

Mr. SPEAKER: Surelythat is not point of order.


Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, thehon. mem-
ber said that I did not understand what he was sayings but
what I said is that Iwentto school the same way as the
hon. member.

Mr. SPEAKER: Again, that is not a point of order.

Mr. LYNCH: I was not accusing the hon. member of
lack of understanding. I said he did not understand the point
which I was making.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: I said thereis no point which
the hon. member can make that I would not be able to un-
derstand, because he is unableto make appoint that I cannot
understand.

Mr. SPEAKER: The allegation is that thehon. member
is not capable of making a point of order.

Mr. LYNCH: I am not going to enter any personal dis-
pute; it is not my style. If I may resume. On the question of
the University, it has been found that there is a paucity of
students from the Eastern Caribbean attending the Univer-
sity College which has been established in Bridgetown. The
reason for this, I am told, Mr. Speaker, is that the charges
for boarding and lodging which the students coming from
distant Caribbean territories have to meet are sometimes
too high for their parents to pay, and so the University is
deprived of a great deal of ability. Because, let it be re-
membered, Mr. Speaker, that all the ability is not in Bar-
bados. Indeed the author whom I am accused of quoting at
second-hand, which I am proud to do -- Sir Arthur Lewis -
is not a Barbadian; and so it must be obvious that a great
deal of ability is lost to the West Indian University when
students from the Eastern Caribbean find it difficult to
maintain themselves there.

If, however, there were closer association between
these islands such as in a Federation, wewould not have the
spectacle of only, roughly, 180 students at the University
College in Bridgetown, despite the frantic efforts of those
in control of the University to encourage more students to
take their education there: but it would be more in the na-
ture of more than 300 students.
4.30 p.m.

I am told that students coming from the Eastern Carib-
bean are asked to pay as much as $100 a month for board
and lodging. It may sound to us as a small amount, but in the
case of many of the parents of these students, they are not
wealthy and they are not able to pay it. There has been a
definite clearage in the line of the demarcation between the
people of the Eastern Caribbean and the people of Trinidad
in the last Federation, and this gap has not yet been
closed; so students coming from these territories will
have nothing whatsoever to do with the University College
students in Trinidad nor even attend the conferences at
which they think Dr. Williams may be present.

We in Barbados are looking forward tothe same thing.

The Hon. Premier talked about the large number of
criminals which have intruded into our communityfromSt.
Lucia. If it is thought that one's brethern in one's commu-
nity.......

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of
order. The hon. member, bothdirectly and by implication, has
made reference to the speech by the Hon. Premier yester-
day about the large number of criminals whichhas intruded
into this Island from St. Lucia. The Hon. Premier made
no such reference. What reference to St. Lucia he made
was that, statistically, he has information that 501o of the
detected crime has been caused through the influx of people
from St. Lucia. I think that the inaccuracy of the hon. mem-
ber ought to be corrected.

Mr. LYNCH: Let me put it this way, Sir,......

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, as you know, I do not
get into these wranglings: but this is something which I












must absolutely deny because the records are there and
they can be examined. The Hon. Premier made reference to
the detected crime, and he said that he could not speak of
crime undetected. He never said that it was due to the
large number of St. Lucians.

Furthermore, the reference which the Hon. Premier
made to St. Lucians was in this wise. He said that there are
roughly 17,000 St. Lucians who came to the Island, with
16,000 going back, the net increase was 1,000. But this
had nothing to do with what the hon. member is saying.

Mr. LYNCH: Let us say that Mr. Crompton.....

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: The hon. junior member for the
City said that the Hon. Premier said that 1,000 people
entering Barbados were St. Lucians, and they were respon-
sible for the crime.

Mr. SPEAKER: Unfortunately, it puts us in difficulty
to make a check because it is quite impossible for me to
secure a copy of the records. It may not be available until
tomorrow: The hon. junior member for the City has stated
what he heard, and the hon. junior member for St. Lucy
has stated what he has heard.

Mr. LYNCH: Sir, no one would expect even the Hon.
Premier to know the figures of undetected crime.
Mr. SPEAKER left the Chair and Mr. DEPUTY SPE 4KER
took the Chair.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, I was pointing out to the Assem-
bly I consider it wise not to particularise any particular
island in the Eastern Caribbean that the statistics of our
detected crime show that 50 per cent is committed by peo-
ple from the other islands. Buthon. members of this As-
sembly must remember that Barbados was accused of such
a thing many years ago in the neighboring island of Trini-
dad: therefore, why should we pass this accusation onto peo-
ple who come from the other islands? We must remember
always that, generally, University people and the worst
people leave one community for another. There are several
people who come to us from alltheterritories of the Eas-
tern; therefore, at this point I consider it to be an ill-
advised statement to make specific reference to people who
come to us to stay here from the other islands of the Eas-
tern Caribbean.
Hon. J ,C. TUDOR: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I rise on a
point of order. How can the hon. member speak of an ill-
advised statement if the records will not show that state-
ment which he refers to is made? The hon. senior member
for St. John pointed out that the records show statistically
that 50lo of the detected crime for theperiod is perpetrated
to non-Barbadians. This must only be a matter of fact. If
the records show it, they show it. This is different from
saying that of the crime committed inBarbados, 5P/o is St.
Lucians. That was reference to the detected crime and the
Commissioner of Police discloses that over a recent period
it was attributed to people who belongto the Eastern Carib-
bean, and not Barbadians.

Mr. LYNCH: I continue, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Perhaps
the Hon. Minister might be happier with one of his own
statements. It is to be found in the "Official Gazette", a
report of a meeting of this House on Tuesday 14th August,
1962, on page 703, wherein he said: "It is just to discuss this
White Paper in the light of these facts. The Federation is a
division of sovereignty and it little matters whether you ask
for a strong Federation or a weak one. It is the level
of political awareness and attainment which exists in the
entire nation which will dictate the strengthor the weakness
of the Federation."
4.40 p.m.

Are we to understand that the level of political aware-
ness has dissipated to nought, that the same people who
pressed for Federation are now acting as if the level of
political awareness has dropped so low? If people will
argue in the same way or do not act in the same way in
which they once acted, the position is very confusing. The


point which we, on this side of the Table are trying to make,
is that it would be for the ultimate good of this community
if we were to accept that we should hold out the right hand
of fellowship to two, three, four, five or more of the other
communities of the Eastern Caribbean. We are now making
the same point which they stressed some time ago because
we are convinced that, putting aside the question of markets
which might cause us to be accused of selfishness, the future
of Barbados, as they were careful to point out some time
ago with such vehemence, lies in closer association with
such other territories in the Eastern Caribbean as are ready
to associate with us. Emphasis is placed on the fact that
leaders in the islands who are Federationists did not speak
on the platform of one politicalgroup or the other. Therein
they showed their good sense because people do not inter-
fere in the internal affairs of other friendly communities.
There are some people who are misguided enough to do it,
but not in the type of society to which we are now aspiring.
It is not the usual procedure for people to leave the land in
which they live and move and have their being, to tell the
people of other territories what they should do. Sometimes
they are met with a rude reception: but in fact the political
leaders in the other territories who have spoken out and who
are still Federationists at heart are awaiting the results of
this debate on Federation. They do not come here and em-
broil themselves in the internal affairs of a neighboring
island -- and who can blame them for such propriety?

There are those of us who happen to travel up and down
these islands for reasons other than political Conferences,
and we are accepted at any time of the year in any of the
islands. There are many of those who come under the wel-
come of that umbrella in that there are many people in
these islands who are still strong Federationists and who
would feel themselves very antagonistic indeed to the people
of Barbados if we were to hive off and leave them as the
colonies of Jamaica and Trinidad did. Their dependence
has been on Barbados; and because of personalities and the
impatience of someone -- as if the future of the nation
could be decided on the whims and fancies of some people -
we are quite prepared to hive off and leave them to the
mercies of their own inadequate economies. The foreseeable
and realisable goalwas for us to summon another conference
with those people, and point out to them the advantages to
be gained by having a closer association with us so that we
might wake up out of the darkness of colonialism and enter
the rich and happy uplands together. It would seem as if
impatience is the order of the Day. Research willtellyouthat
years and years passed bywhile matters of Federation were
discussed in many lands. These Federations are now im-
portant nations which rule their own destinies all over
the world.

It was not left to the decisionofone or two people that
these people were not able to federate: and some of them
were trying to proceed in coming into a Federation. It was
not a question of three and a half years; in many cases it
was a longer period than that; but they knew that the nation
into which they would enter would be more than repaying the
time which was spent in bringing the Federalnegotiations to
a happy issue.We have to take Barbados into Federation be-
cause, if she remains outside, there is no future. Mr.
Speaker, these are not my words; these are the words of
the hon. senior member for St. John. These are the hon.
member's words which are on record in the official debates
of this House. He says that if Barbados stays outside, then
there is no future for our people. What I cannot understand
is the acrimony which is attached to anyone who should
take the view which he so rightly stated. Why should person-
alities and snide remarks and the recommendation that some
speakers should be hanged from the highest tree and re-
marks of that kind, be introduced?
4.50 p.m.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Here again, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I
rise on a point of order. The hon. member is making ref-
erence to the hon. senior member for St. John who is not
now in his place. In what part of his speech yesterday or at
any time did the hon. member hear a recommendation that
somebody should hang from the highest tree?












Mr. LYNCH: Not in so many words, Mr. Deputy
Speaker, but reference was made to people like William
Joyce and Amery and their activities during World War II.
When the analogy was not only made but stressed, it caused
some amusement above here, because as far as I know, this
is peace time, and we came here by the same method of
being voted for, and are at liberty to put forward our views
as long as they do not conflict with the Speaker's ruling.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Again on a point of order, Mr.
Deputy Speaker, when the hon. senior member for St. John
was at that particular point in his speech and mentioned
the names of Amery and Casement, he ended that part of
his speechby saying that so far as he is concerned, he would
not lay a hand on anybody who was guilty of that sort of thing;
what he would do would be to hand him over to the tender
mercies of the great democracies of the United Kingdom
and the United States. He never said he would hang anybody
from the highest tree, and it is reallyreprehensible of the
hon. member to make such a distortionofa plain statement
of fact, and really justas reprehensiblefor the hon. member
who is now on his feet to deplore what he calls sniping
remarks, when in deploring somebody for remarks of that
nature .....

Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: That point of order has been
made.

Mr. LYNCH: If we refrain from taking up certain peo-
ple in what they say, they maythinkwe are afraid of them,
We are not going to do that. I cannot see the necessity for
them having been made, and quite dispassionately, making
reference to the remarks which were made in some way
seemed to equate us with people like Casement and Amery.
We do not like it and I am on my feet now saying that we
do not like it. I amnot making any remarks comparing any-
body else to any villain or traitor,

The point was made also, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that no
West Indian should look to Europe for a: political philosophy
- that is, of course, those of us who sit on this side of the
House and who believe in free enterprise, What I would
like the Hon. Premier, the hon. senior member for St.
John, in his reply to say is where Socialism had its origins.
I would like to know if it was born in Barbados or if it is a
West Indian philosophy. Wherever you find Socialism, you
are going to find Conservatism. Whether anybodylikesit or
not, it is a political philosophy to which some people will
adhere, and no amount of ranting or raving is going to
change the mind of anyone who has his own political philoso-
phy, and the sooner that is understood the better. The louder
one rants and raves, the stronger will adherents stick to
their own philosophy, (Mr. WALCOTT: Some people are
definitely criminals,) I am not going to take notice of asides
I am a Conservative and shall remain so.

The question as to whether a matter of life and death
should be decided by pettifogging officials is perhaps an
important one, because it is to be pointed out to those who
might misunderstand that war service in Barbados has al-
ways been voluntary. There has never been, so far as I
have been aware, any question of conscription in Barbados.
The people who went off to war for one reason or another
went off of their own free will and volition, and I believe
it will continue to be so. It will not be decided by petti-
fogging officials in Greatsmith Street or any other place
that Barbadians should go and lay down their lives for the
continuance of the status quo. When Barbados goes into
Independence, whether it be in a Federation or alone, it is
to be hoped and believed that war service will continue to be
voluntary. So why should so much stress and emphasis be
paid to this remark about the future of Barbadians? Why
should this drama be drawn into it? To say that war ser-
vice will depend on pettifogging officials in Greatsmith
Street is to becloud the issue if the position is not put
clearly before those who are within earshot. It is things
like those which we have to clear up, because the mind re-
ceives one impression, especially the minds of those
people who form their opinions from others --and there are
many people like that: and if the opposite opinion is not put
before them for their consideration, they probably go off


with the impression made upon their minds that that which
they heard at first was the truth.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, I was just making a few prefatory
remarks as I rose to my feet to second the amendment
which, as you were not in the Chair, I will read for your
enlightenment. It reads as follows:-

"To omit the words after "convene" and to substitute
the following words therefor:-

"After the holding of elections in Barbados to decide
whether Barbados shall proceed to independence, within a
Federation comprised of such territories in the Eastern
Caribbean as are willing to join in such an association, or
alone, a conference representative of all political parties
to arrange for the implementation of the decision taken
and for the constitutional, financial, defence and other
measures for the establishment of an independent nation
at the earliest possible time."

"It gives me a great deal of pleasure to second the
amendment, (Cheers)

Mr. MILLER: Mr. Deputy Speaker, it isniceto be here
with you today and I am really only here because I am sa-
tisfied that my country, to say nothing of my Party, needs
me on this historic occasion.
5.00 p.m.

It would probably be wise to say that I left the Hospital
at three o'clock after a long session of X-rays at the X-ray
department yesterday. Iwas told bythe Sister that I am
slated for an operation which would take place early next
week. However, Mr. Speaker, it is supposed that this is a
normal thing for me to explain. Maybe, lam suffering from
a bleeding ulcer or from an inflamed stomach. These are
the troubles and I have a calm manner of saying these
things. However, you should not think of your own personal
feeling; you should think of your feeling towards the re-
sponsibility of this country. However, I am called here on
this occasion and I have no doubt that this day would pro-
bably be remembered by whispering voices down through
the coming ages.

I would like to begin by saying that this meeting was
called with what one would call indecent haste. The House
was adjourned until the 11th of January. The Hon. Leader
of the House had given Parliament the undertaking, some-
time after the Resolution on Independence was given notice
of, that he would appoint a day to debate the Resolution and,
quite important, outside of these expectations, we were
hoping to be given at least a week to ourselves to go into
this question because of the number of things which have
to be gone into. I wonder why it became necessary or what
was turning in the minds of the Hon. Premier and the Hon.
Leader of the House that they should force this date on us.
Nowhere else on earth would expect that you would debate
this question during the Christmas recess. A number of
things which happened within recent days haveindicatedto
us the reason for coming to us and asking us to debate this
matter now. The Hon. Premier has found himself in a
predicament and feels that he should rush this debate
through and have this Resolution delivered to Colonial Office
before the Spring Conference of the Windward and Leeward
Islands.
One wonders whether the Hon. Premier who is the hon.
senior member for St. John and thehon. junior member for
St. Lucy have been so afraid that they now find their minds
warped.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of
order. I would like to say that I have no intention whatso-
ever of interrupting the hon. member, but he certainly
cannot accuse other hon, members of havingwarped minds,

It is an infringement of Standing Orders and I ask Your
Honour to invite him to withdraw that.
Mr. SPEAKER: The assertion is unfortunate and repre-
hensible.












Mr. MILLER: If the hon. Minister is unhappy about the
remark, I think it is only toowellthat I withdraw it. Why are
we rushing and forcing this? The way in which we are de-
bating this advanced stage of our Constitution is regrettable.
I am thinking now of the hon. senior member for St. John and
what power, what right has he to assume that we should
enter into a state of independence now without the atmos-
phere of Parliament and the people of this country behind
him. Never in human history has such a thing occurred. I
do not know where on earthyouwillexpect any human being
with any respect for the other fellow would think of doing a
thing like that. Human dignity has been so often spared of
man's indifferent attitude by those of us who think it is
something so good to be close to the side of power.

The hon. senior member for St. John is seeking in-
dependence now for the people of Barbados without a Federa-
tion. This is a very simple and innocent remark, but I
should like to remind him that no matter what he feels, the
moment he crosses the rights of human dignity, he will find
us very rigid and the spirit to fight will remain to the end.

Imagine the bon. senior member for St. John walked
into this House just to interrupt the House on a point of
order to tell the Speaker that he was giving notice of a mo-
tion that the hon. junior member for the City is to sur-
render his rights to serve in this Chamber! This type of
dictatorship must never be, and we must continue in the
clamour to fight against these pronouncements todestroy
the right of christian democracy.

Sir, we are faced with a challenge, but I am not afraid.
We have a responsibility in this country. The whole reason
of rushing headlong with this is thathe should go to London
and hoping he gets there before the "boys" of the Wind-
wards and the Leewards. Imagine reading the debates and
reading of the Premier's hastel I do not think he is aware
of the United Kingdom Government. He thinks that he is
toying with some boy from Colonial Office.

This can be a relatively simple matter, but what is un-
fortunate, Mr. Deputy Speaker, about this is the change
in Constitution. We heard about this long before the last
meeting of the Regional Council of Ministers was held. It
was agreed by the backbenchers and the hon. Leader of the
House that Barbados should go it alone.
5,10 p.m.

Imagine that in the middle of negotiations with the
leaders of the territories with which you want to federate,
you should insinuate desertion! Yet there is something big
and great in the hearts of those men who realise the im-
portance of Federation. Heaven knows that Barbados needs
Federation, and a simple examination of the country's
statistics would reveal the grim truth of the situation. In
another 37 years we would have doubled our population,
and this is no vain attempt to change the sympathies of
those who support the Government. These are plain,
statistical truths. As I was saying, Sir, in another 37 years
we would have doubled our population. If we are in trouble
now with a population of 250,000 people, let us look at what
the state of affairs would be in another 37 years from now
when we would have to support a population which would
be double the figure of 250,000. The question is: How much
land would have to be taken out of production in order to
make provision for roads, schools, houses, shops and re-
creational centres. Think of what you have now for the ac-
commodation of 250,000 people, and what you would require
if and when you have twice that population. What I am saying
is accepted by economists all over the world.

Wherever sugar is grown, the worker is tied to slavery.
If we are tied with our sugar, how are we going to support a
population of this size? There must be something referred
to as national sentiment. In four of the seven territories,
there were slaves who came from the same continent of
Africa at about the same time. They are your brothers and
sisters. There were intermarriages and relationships be-
tween these territories and that will tell you that you will
never be able to separate us. Doyouthink that the Colonial
Office would have any respect for the honourable and revered


gentleman for St. John in his pressing for Independence for
Barbados alone? I could not have anything atall against In-
dependence; for all my life there has been that unchanged
desire to be a citizen of a nation. For all my life that has
been so. Do you think that the members of the Barbados
Labour Party would ever say that they are against an In-
dependent State? That could not be so because, for more
than one hundred years, we have contemplated the coming
into being of an Independent Federation.

As to the reference by the hon senior member for St.
John to the Throne Speech, it was arranged that a Con-
ference should take place in London in the month of July.
These are facts and you cannot toy with them. We might well
be reminded that if we make a mistake like this, it would
take about ten years to correct it. We knew when Trinidad
came out of the Federation what that meant to her: we knew
also what it meant to Jamaica when she left the Federation.
Dr. Eric Williams is regarded as a great Trinidadian, but
I am quite willing to say that he is by no means a West
Indian. I say that in spite of the books which he wrote and
which I read about three or four times "The Negro in
the Caribbean" and "Capitalism and Slavery". When I see
Dr. Williams, I want to salute himforhis knowledge of West
Indian History; but recent events certainly reveal that the
man is a Trinidadian with little interest inthe West Indies.
I remember that Mr. Gomes did have some feeling about
him when an attempt was made to close the Conference in
Jamaica. The hon. senior member for St. Peter and my-
self went to Jamaica on another Conference and used our
support totake Eric Williams into the Caribbean. I am
quite sure, Sir that it must have been about 4 o'clock in
the morning when I was in the shower that my good friend
pressed his way through the door and asked me: "Freddie,
where do you and Frank Walcott stand in this matter?" I
said thatwearesupportingEric Williams. Sir, I am pro-
bably thinking of ten years or so ago because he was sharing
a crumb with our hungry brothers and sisters in the West
Indies, he thought that he should leave us.
5.20 p.m,

We were really never obsessed with that tribal society
sometimes so marked and clannish in that country. I re-
member Burnham joining with Jagan when it was first
hoped that British Guiana would go into Federation. He said
"no", British Guiana has a destiny, a destiny of its own.
Now we are trafficking between BritishGuiana and Barbados
to establish a trade area. These things are unusual, but
now you are crushing him, like some nice smelling bouquet,
to your b som and attempting to negotiate terms for a
free trade area with British Guiana, and ignoring those
whom we love in the seven territories of the Windwards
and Leewards. The whole mad rush of this debate is hoping
to save face. That is the most you can hope for, but this
is the Colonial Office that he is dealing with. He thinks he
can be as bumptious or cocksure as Dr. Jagan to overturn
the whole British Empire, who, I am told is negotiating
for a place in Havana to open his dentist trade; he probably
will practise dentistry in Cuba. Those are the things we want
to understand.

What can the hon. senior member for St. John expect?
He can only be left on a carpet. This is the Colonial Office
he is dealing with, and ifyouwantto see their attitude, just
take a glance quickly at the White Paper proposals for
the West Indies, and if you want to share with me the little
chapter on human rights, I will quote from this document.

Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: May I enquire what the do-
cument is?

Mr. MILLER: It is a reprint of the White Paper by
the Colonial Office on the proposals for the Windwards and
Leewards which have been circulated to all members.

Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The hon. member knows that
he may make reference to it, but not actually read it as
part of his address.

Mr. MILLER: I am only too well aware, but this is a
document which has been accepted by Parliament known as











the White Paper. All I need do is to ask the Clerk to allow me
to read the document which he is bound to have. I just want
to read the chapter on fundamental rights and freedom. This
is just a reprint, an exact copyfromthe White Paper which
has been circulated and which is a document of the House.

Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Let me here and now say that
I have not got a copy of that document. The hon. member
can make reference to it, and making reference to it does
not mean reading it as part of his address.

Mr. MILLER: If that is your ruling, Sir, with undying
and ......

Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I may explain further to the
hon. member that I have seen other members with doc-
uments before them to which they made reference, and
at the same time giving the date and reading them as part
of the address.

Mr. MILLER: If that is your ruling, I will unswervingly
bow to it. This is a reprint of what has been released to
the territories.

Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I should like to make it easy
for the hon. member by saying that he can make reference
to it, but not read it as part of the address.

Mr. MILLER: Now I have had the greatest happiness
in my life in studying constitutions, and I believe that the
British Government has written more Constitutions for
Canada, New Zealand, Australia and all territories of Africa,
and if there is a ruling power whichunderstands how to rule,
it is Her Majesty's Government. I have paid much attention
to the Constitution under which we are now operating. I sat
side by side with Dr. Cummins at the Conference and party
to all that was said and done in the present Barbados Con-
stitution on internal self-Government,

You will remember, Mr. DeputySpeaker, Abraham
Lincoln in the Declaration of Freedom and Independence of
the United States of America. Oh how lovely and how sweet
it is to be reminded of what was pouring out of that man's
:soul when he wrote the Declaration of Independence all
men born equal under God -- but now never in any of the
British Constitutions was this written, and to read it, Mr.
Deputy Speaker, is as sweet as listening to the Lord's
Prayer.

Mr, DEPUTY SPEAKER: I want to remind the hon.
member that I am not trying to present any difficulty, but
if he reads the document itwillhaveto be made a document
of the House.

Mr. MILLER: It is so difficult to make reference to it.
Why is this chapter included in the proposals? The whole
idea in this Is that the Colonial Office saw the need to pro-
tect and to safeguard its citizens.

"The Consitution will include a chapter which will pre-
scribe the fundamental rights and freedom to be enjoyed by
the people of the territory. These rights and freedoms will
include the following:-

(a) the right to live;
(b) the right of personal liberty;
(c) protection from slavery and forced labour;
(d) protection from inhuman treatment;
(e) protection from deprivation of property;"

It takes a big heart who has paid some attention to
Socrates' democracy to feel these things, and to say the
least, to spell them out in a constitution. May I continue with
your pleasure, Mr. Deputy Speaker?

"(f) protection against arbitrary search of entry upon
property;
(g) the right to a fair trial in criminal and civil pro-
ings;
(h) freedom of conscience;
(1) freedom of expression;"


If I said "Grantley Adams", I would probably lose
my head.

"(0) freedom of assembly:
(k) freedom of association;
(1) freedom of movement:
(m) freedom from discrimination on grounds of race,
political opinions, colour or creed."

When these entrenched in the constitutional proposals
I am sure that the Colonial Office was thinking of Barbados,
and history and time along will confirm this. This has
never been seen even in the African constitutions which I
have found so much joy in reading.
5.30 p.m.

It has never been seen anywhere fundamental freedom
is entrenched in the constitution. It is done deliberately.

I wonder if the Hon. Premier knows thatwe have given
the Prime Minister of Rhodesia the surprise of his life;
we have Jagan of British Guiana like a baby; the only thing
he didn't do was to fire the Queen. Look what has happened
to the Prime Minister of Rhodesia! You never get around
a referendum or an election. Does the Hon, senior member
for St. John understand this? Does he know that the Colonial
Office knows that he has many Cabinet resignations on this
specific point alone? Is he aware that the only Minister
without portfolio in his Cabinet resigned with considerable
loss to himself because he did not want to depart from a
West Indian Unity and because of this mockeryof Indepen-
dence alone? Is he hoping to resurrect Federation?

Sir, you can talk on this for the rest of the night. What
is the reason that we have not given the opportunity to the
people of this country to decide this by referendum or by
election? Do you mean that all they must do is to stand,
form fours, salute and sing "God Save The Queen" and
vote in favour of Independence? I repeat, does the Hon.
Premier understand that Colonial Office knows the position
where at least two of the member of this Party -- one of
them a member of that Party before the Premier was a
member have resigned? Does he realise what was the
position just before Christmas when three members of his
Party out of the thirteen or fourteen he has in this House
left the Party because of this? 'They actually signed the
amendment. The Hon. Premier was In here a few weeks
ago when the number of his Party was down to ten. He
would have lost then. He should have had some measure
of self-respect and resign.

What can he tell Colonial Office? I beg you, he would
come back here a dejected soul. Mr. DeputySpeaker, I am
not thinking now of my ulcers; this is my country and I
am not afraid. I have the tenacity and the courage which
it takes. The half has never yet been told, and to think of
the ugly function when he reads this important debate and
realises that all the people of this country does not stand
by what he call his second eleven. The Hon. Premier
himself did not come in this Chamber nor did he get on a
platform and discuss independence to the masses before a
group which he regards as his second eleven got on a
platform and discussed it. On one occasion, in Baxters
Road that group was discussing it and the Leader of the
House was in the midst of a grog shop near by. It is that
type of indignity which we must face. This is what the people
of this country must be made aware of.

Sir, the whole burning truth is that youwill have to satis-
fy the British Government about this question. The first
question which they are going to ask you is: why do you not
want a referendum? I wonder if the Hon. Premier thinks
that Colonial Office would not remember the hundreds of
former things which has happened since he begun his re-
gime. The first important thing that happened in this House
after he begun his regime was when the Marshal, a pious
and simple person, was crushed. Mr. Deputy Speaker, you
remember that.
5.40 p.m.

If you had any conscience of human dignity you would
be silent. You will remember how he created it because


I












hethoughthe would destroy it. The country gave the Bar-
bados Labour Party five seats in this House, and night and
day there were fires. He delayed the appointment of the
Leader of the Opposition for six weeks and then when our
number was reduced by two members, he appointed the
Leader of the Opposition.
At this stage, VR. DEPUTY S IE4KER left the Chair
and Mr. SPEAKER resumed the Chair.
Mr. MILLER: Mr. Speaker, I was saying Sir, that after
the membership of the Barbados Labour Party had been
reduced by two members, then the Leader of the Opposition
was appointed. This decision was made in opposition to
the wishes of the electorate of this country. After the
Barbados Labour Party had lost several seats in the Elec-
tion, the question remained as to whichof the groups would
be more likely to run the Government of the country. The
great pity was that the present Leader of the Opposition for
over four years made a childish milk and water attempt to
oppose and he was just like a little boy sitting beside the lunch
basket of his master. He ate the sandwiches one by one and
when he got to the last one and opened his mouth, this is
what happened, (ASIDES). It was only because the hon.
member realized that he was in a strong position and the
Opposition felt that it was in thier interest to play the boy
and be able to surrender themselves. ( I.si. )!S).This is
something they wanted done. It was said that they would
direct the Opposition against the Government, Doyouthink
that any prevarication from the fundamental rights of the
people could be regarded as a secret? Sir John Stow ......
Mr. SPEAKER: I should just like to remind the hon.
member of Standing Order 26 (8) It says this:-

"Her Majesty's or the Governor's name shall not be
used to influence the House".

Let the hon. member proceed.

Mr. MILLER: Mr. Speaker, you would remember the
removal of respectable members from all the Boards be-
cause they were elected bythe Barbados Labour Party. It was,
not a question of suitability or attainments:it was a questionof
the uncalled-for removal of these members. It was not a
question as to whether the Boards could succeed. When you
tell me that you cannot trust them -- you will remember,
Sir, the Permanent Secretary in the Ministry of Education...

Mr. BOXILL: Mr, Speaker, on a point of order, The
hon, junior member for St. George has said that this Gov-
ernment has removed all the respectable gentlemen from
membership of the Boards, Is the hon. member saying that
all the members who are members -of the Boards now are
disrespectful?

Mr. SPEAKER: That cannot be by wayofa question, but
the bon, member has sought his point of order by way of a
question,

Mr, MILLER: Mr. Speaker, you know that we cannot
change these things. You will remember the appointment
of the Personal Aide to the Premier, Mr, Nigel Barrow. You
will remember when that money was asked for in parliament,
Do you remember these things? We could have saved that
money; we could have served the countrybetter by permitting
that gentleman to come into the service of his own choice,

Mr. SPEAKER: I am afraid that what the hon, member is
now saying is something which is off the point of the subject
matter of this Resolution.

Mr. MILLER: We are talking about the Conference in
London.

Mr. SPEAKER: That is correct,

Mr. MILLER: Mr. Speaker, I follow that with unswerving
devotion. You may be shocked to hear certain things. To
me it was a matter of little moment to think of the hon.
gentleman ,and the magnitude of his office and responsibility
to his country. All of this would show up his conduct. One


day when he was going up Crumpton Street, the Premier
saw my car parked on the left hand side of the road. When
he got to the gate leading to Harrison College there was a
Policewoman on duty and she was called over to the side of the
car and instructed to report Freddie Miller for parking
too close to the corner.

Mr. SPEAKER: I am afraid that that is totally irrele-
vant to the question now before the House.

Mr. MILLER: We are talking about the question of
Independence which must only be, and can only be, founded
on democracy. If you are prepared to do so, let us examine
the concept of democracy to which I know we shall forever
belong. If we are prepared to do that, we cannot, in any way
attempt to push back the hands of the clock.
5.50 p.m.

Mr. SPEAKER: I will askthehon. member to forget the
police, except in so far as an independent Police Force is
concerned.

Mr. MILLER: It is clear that the Police Force is not
under the direction of the Commissioner of Police, but the
Premier; and when we develop a Police state, I do not know
you will ever want to be associated with it.

Mr. Speaker,it is unfortunate that Barbados should miss
this great opportunity of a Federation. All that could happen
at the moment is a possible temporary suspension until the
electors of this country in the interest of this country re-
move the hon. gentleman. Imagine Sir Arthur Lewis with
shoes off and relaxing in shirt and shorts writing in "The
Agony of the Eight" these words:-

"There is no fundamental obstacle in the way. All the
existing leaders, with the exception of Mr. Crompton and
Mr. Blaize, have been committed to this federation for the
past three and a half years."

There are no insurmountable difficulties. There is
nothing insuperable that could block a federation other than
that Barbados as host country and with the Premier as host,
walked out on the leaders of theterritories, anxious to have
a final discussion knowing that theywere goingto London in
June for an Independent Federation. You will agree with me,
Mr. Speaker, that maybe when the delegation returns and no
doubt infailure, this experiment will make this country poor-
er. What we are happy about is that the members of the other
territories are still anxiously awaiting an opportunity for
Federation. Even if it were possible that the Colonial
Office should go mad and Lancaster House should fall in, we
know from the dossier on the Government that he would
not be permitted to serve in the Commonwealth of Nations,
and if that was possible, it would not be three meetings be-
fore they asked Barbados to send an alternate delegate. This
dwarf shell, haunted with the belief of being little Hitler,
would be dealing with huge continental, political giants, and
we know that he could not meet on any of the Committees of
the United Nations three times before Barbados would be
asked to send another delegate; but he will never reach
there. His record of four years does not indicate any re-
spect. After the conquering nations had tottered, they still
ran and joined hands with the British because of the tradi-
tional principles of the Anglo-Saxons in their way of jus-
tice. You will remember the last march of my friend,
Napoleon Bonaparte, who retreated at the gates of Moscow.
You will remember Socrates; but whatever was left of his
work on democracy, it was Britain who swallowed, digested
and applied it.

Mr. Speaker, you have a picture which he is likely to
present to the Colonial Office. You are afraid to have the
country say whether it should go to Independence alone. Mr.
Speaker, I think I have satisfied my commitment to myself,
to my country and to my Party. I will be back to vote. My
task has not been an easyone. Mostof the time, I have been
in pain, but, Sir, I want you to accept this as a sensible re-
sponse on so historic an occasion. Those whom the gods
despise, Mr. Speaker, live on in smiles.


I











With those few remarks, I say "Thankyou" and "God
bless you" for giving me an opportunity to serve my
country on this occasion. I thank you. (Cheers.)

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, the hon. Junior
member for St. George explained to this Honourable Cham-
ber that he was in pain and agony, and despite that, he came
here to serve his people, his country and his party. He has
done something else.He has set us on this side in pain to
listen to the garbled utterances which he has brought here
this evening.

Mr. MILLER: On a point of order, will the Hon. Min-
ister give way? I claim the attention of the House with a
very simple request. Is the Hon. Minister discussing
Independence for Barbados alone?

Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. member has just started,
and he is making his introductory remarks. That is not a
point of order.

Mr. MILLER: Then this is an introduction to Indepen-
dence for Barbados alone?
6.00 p.m.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, asIwas saying,
the Resolution before the House is a Resolution in favour
of Barbados going into Independence alone. The hon. junior
member for St. George who claims to have left hospital to
come here and speak on this Resolution has said absolutely
nothing about Independence, whether Barbados should go into
Independence alone or not. He has spokenof Federation, but
he has not put forward any strong reasons why there should
be a Federation. He just talked around the clock, like other
hon. members on the other side.

Sir, I am going to pick to pieces some of the misrepre-
sentations made by hon. members in this debate. I shall
begin by dealing with the hon. seior member for the City,
He pointed out in his remarks that for three and a half years
the countries of the Eastern Caribbean had been engaged
in Federation negotiations, and his Party knew nothing that
went on behind the closed doors at Sherbourne. How, then
since the hon. member's Party knew nothing of what went
on behind the closed doors of Sherbourne could the accusa-
tion be made by hon. members on that side that it was
because of the representation of the Barbados Government
by the Hon. Premier that the federal negotiations have been
broken up?

He contended that Mr. Crompton wanted to have 900 of
the cakes, that is to say, 907oof the money to be spent on the
"little six". That is what the hon. senior member for St.
Michael said. He asked is it fair to ask Barbadians who are
about the hardest working people in the Caribbean to work
and contribute funds to the Federation whereby 90/o of the
funds would be spent on underveloped territories and thereby
reducing the money to be spent on Barbados?

Mr. SEALEY: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I
never mentioned anything about St. Lucia and that we should
spend 910 of our taxes on St. Lucia. I said if we were to do
that we would only be reducing ourselves.

Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order.
What the hon. member said was a point which I made. The
Hon. Minister who is speaking does not usually speak in
that vein. He said that my Party knew nothing of the White
Paper because we did not know what went on behind closed
doors. How then could we say that the Barbadian delegation
to the conference was against Federation? I said over and over
again that all we knew about it and what went on was when the
Barbados newspapers came out with the headline that the
Hon. Premier had walked out of the conference. What I did
say was this, for the first time he said that "I stood out".

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: He never said so.

Mr. MOTTLEY: I withdraw that he said"I stood out".
Mr. Speaker, just give me a little chance, if you do not mind.
I understood that the hon. member said so. I made it quite


clear that the time we knew of it was when it was published
in the newspapers and from this I said that the first time
he told us of what happened was when the information was
sent to the Press.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, lhavenot men-
tioned anything about the hon. senior member for the City. I
said that I was speaking on a point raised by the hon. senior
member for St. Michael, and these points were raised by the
hon. senior member for St. Michael before the hon. senior
member for the City was in his place today.

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I
do not know if the hon. member, being a young Minister, is
dealing with this Resolution. It seems to me as if he is re-
plying. If he is replying, I would just like to inform him that
the hon. members over herehave not finished speaking yet.
I would like to find out if he is speaking on the Resolution or
replying to hon. members over here.

Mr. SPEAKER: If the hon. junior member for St. An-
drew in his speech makes reference to what other hon.
members have said, he is entitled to make references on
what the previous speakers have said on thelast meeting of
the Regional Council of Ministers. The right to reply may
be exercised by the mover of the Resolution. Let the hon.
junior member for St. Andrew continue.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Ithinkthehon. junior member
for St. Joseph was in this Honourable Chamber long enough
to know that every hon.member has the right to speak so long
as he catches the Speaker's eyes. Is the hon. junior member
for St. Joseph implying that I should not speak? Is he implying
that he or all the hon. members over on that side should
speak before I speak?

Mr. SPEAKER: Let the hon. member proceed.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: I was referring to the point
raised by the hon, senior member for St. Michael. The hon.
senior member for St. Michael referred to the fact that Mr.
Compton wanted 90% of the money spentonthe "Little Six".
This is in the official report taken down.
6.10 p.m.

I am saying that it would not be fair to the taxpayers
of Barbados .....

Mr. SEALEY: On a point of order. Mr. Speaker, I did
not say that it was right to give Mr. Compton 90% of our
money. I never said it was right for us to give that to him.

Mr. SPEAKER: The point has been made.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, I am still say-
ing that it would not be fair to ask the taxpayers of this
colony to contribute 9%o of the moneywhenthe bulk of that
money is to be spent in developing the territories in the
Leeward and Windward Islands. That is what the hon. senior
member for St. Michael said in the course of his remarks.
The hon. member also said that we were discussing Federa-
tion for three and a half years and he questioned why, as the
Premier was so keen on Federation, was it that he did not
give this country Federation in 1962. For the same reason
that hon. members did not think that a trial should be made
at Federation in 1962 when the last Federation broke up, the
Premier thought that another trial should be made at Fed-
eration. We have tried at Federation; we have had Federal
negotiations for over three and one half years and there
was no agreement reached. Since we have fought to renew
a stronger type of Federation for three and one half years
with little or no agreement being reached, why is it that hon.
members' time should be taken up in continuing with Fed-
eral negotiations when it was crystal clear that the Eastern
Caribbean Territories had no intention to coming together
politically? I contend that what the EasternCaribbeanTer-
ritories wanted, what is needed in the Eastern Caribbean
Colonies, is Regional co-operation and that canonlybe ob-
tained primarily through economic co-operation which the
Government of Barbados, the Government of BritishGuiana
and the Government of Antigua have decided to initiate by way











of a free trade area, not only for those territories but for
all who wish to come into this Agreement.

We, I mean the Governments of Antigua, BritishGuiana
and Barbados, came together and signed an Agreement be-
cause it was thought that since it was extremely difficult, if
not impossible, for the territories to come together po-
litically, what would be more beneficial for the area would
be for them to come together financially. The preamble to
the Agreement was published after our first meeting in
British Guiana and it reads as follows:-

'The Governments of Antigua, Barbados and British
Guiana

Sharing a common determination to fulfil, within the
shortest possible time, the hopes and aspirations of their
peoples and the peoples of other Caribbean countries for
full employment and improved living standards;

Conscious that these goals can most rapidly be attained
by the use of available human and other resources and by
sustained development;

Aware that the broadening of the domestic markets
from the elimination of barriers of trade between the ter-
ritories is a prerequisite to such development:

Convinced that the elimination of such barriers to trade
can best be achieved by the immediate establishment of a
free trade area and the ultimate creation of a Customs
Union and a viable economic ability for all the Caribbean
territories who so desire it, have agreed as follows:......"

It goes on to say that this Agreement is hereby es-
tablished and it goes on to pointoutthe benefits to be gained
from the establishment of a Caribbean Free Trade area.
That is the approach which the Government has to Regional
Co-operation, because after we had fought from 1947 for a
Federation and failed and negotiations began for another
Federation which continued for three and a half years with-
out reaching any reasonable agreement, it was discovered
that for these territories to come together they should
first begin on an economical basis.

Hon, members who represent the Conservative Party
have failed to allow the community to know that they are
members of the United Chambers of Commerce and they
are trying to establish certain trade arrangements among
the territories. I had the occasion to speak to the Incor-
porated Chambers of Commerce a few weeks ago, and this
has been the aim of these Chambers. Even in the remarks
which were made on the occasion of the coming together of
the Incorporated Chambers of Commerce, it was empha-
tically pointed out that the most desirable thing for the
territories was that they should come together economically
and that there should be one common aim where that is con-
cerned,
6.20 p,m,

They praised the Government that actually made the
start in establishing a free trade area: they acknowledged
the fact that it was, if not impossible, highly improbable for
the territories to come together politically, because over
the years they have tried it. It has been tried time and time
again with nothing but failure, and therefore it was thought
that the approach to a Caribbean Economic Community or
Caribbean Association is through an association in trade
which would ultimately lead to a customs union, and
the aims and aspirations of the people in the area would
have been met to some extent. That is why our Resolutkn
is framed in this way, After regional economic co-operation
among the territories is achieved, the wicket is then rolled
for further co-operation,

I referred earlier, Mr. Speaker, to the objects of this
Caribbean Free Trade Area which are: 'to provide for the
expansion and diversification of trade in the area of the
association: to encourage the progressive development
of the economies of the area; to ensure that trade between
member territories takes place in conditions of fair com-
petition; to foster the harmonious development of Carib-
bean trade and its liberalisation by the removalof barriers
to it."


Hon. members went to the length and breadth of this
country saying that Independence for Barbados alone would
mean a reduction in trade with the other territories of the
Caribbean. They said there would be so much trade lost
to Barbados: but I want to point out to hon. members that
Trinidad pulled out from the West Indian Federation in 1962,
and between then and 1983 trade between Trinidad and the
Eastern Caribbean increased by over $1 million, and I have
the figures here to prove it. How then could members say
that Independence would reduce trade between Barbados
and the other territories? Trinidad pulled out of the Fed-
eration and became an independent nation, and trade was
increased from $8 million to $9 million a year,

Mr. SEALEY: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, I would
like the Hon. Minister to tell us where Trinidad got that
trade from,

Mr. SPEAKER: I am afraid that is nota point of order,

Hon, A. DaC. EDWARDS: I sympathise with the hon.
member. The hon. member will remember-that in 1963
during the windfall period when Barbados was trying to
sell some of its sugar to St. Lucia, we asked them to sign
an agreement to take sugar after that from us, but they re-
fused to sign the agreement with us who were then carrying
on federal negotiations, and they bought the sugar from
Trinidad, Yet these people walked about the length and
breadth of this country saying that we should take Barba-
dos' money and spend on St. Lucians and othlr people who
have no uses for us. They should be ashamed. As recently
as yesterday one of the best bands in Barbados went to St.
Lucia and was well received by the foreigners who were
there, despite the fact that certain hon. members went
down canvassing the views of the leaders of certain ter-
ritories......

Mr. CRAWFORD: On a point of order, the junior mem-
ber for St. Andrew referred just now to the fact that some
time within the last two years when St. Lucia wanted sugar,
they bought it from Trinidad in preference to Barbados, I
merely want to say that the price offered St, Lucia by
Trinidad for that sugar was very much lower than what
Barbados sugar would have cost.

Mr. SPEAKER: That is not a point of order, but it is a
matter which may well be raised if and when the hon. mem-
ber is speaking.

Hon, A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, you will al-
ways get that from certain hon, members. But the point
I was making is that it is not fair to say that we are going
to lose trade with these territories, because if they want
our goods and we supply them at a reasonable price, they
will buy our products, because they have raw materials which
we have to buy from them. If they do not buy our goods, we
will not buy their raw materials. They have raw materials
which they have to sell, and in any area where prices are
favourable, trade must continue, and that is how we counter-
act this. We are willing to have any of them in on an eco-
nomic basis, but since they have failed miserably to come
together politically, we have adopted a different approach,
and our approach is to bring them together by regional
economic co-operation.

Mr. Speaker, I will continue tomorrow.

SUSPENSION OF SITTING

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move
that this Sitting be now suspended until Thursday, 6th Jan-
uary, at 12 noon.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: I beg to second that.
The question was put and resolved in the affirmative
without division and .R. SPE4KER suspended the Sitting
acco rdin gly.
6.32 p,m.

On re-assembling:

Mr. YEARWOOD: Mr. Speaker, I observe thereis
no quorum and askthatyou directthe Clerk to ringthe bell.












Mr. SPEAKER: I thank the hon. member. Let the Bell
be rung,

The bell was rung and a quorum was obtained.

Mr. SPEAKER: When the Sitting was suspended, the hon.
junior member for St. Andrew, the Minister of Trade and
Labour, was addressing the Chair,

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, I began my ad-
dress yesterday by stating that it was my intention to pick
to pieces the points made by hon. members on the other
side. I have already dealt with the points made by the hon.
senior member for St. Michael. I went on to state that
what Barbados needs as the initial step to securing co-
operation with the Eastern Caribbean is a sort of economic
association, and I pointed out then that despite all that was
said about regional co-operation, despite the writings of Dr,
Eric Williams, despite the vain attempts to have regional
co-operation by a Federation since 1947 and even before
then, despite the fact that there was a Federation formed
in 1948 which was killed by some of the associates and
colleagues of members on the other side of the House, an
attempt was made at resuscitating a form of federation be-
tween the Little Eight, which attempt lasted for three and a
half years; but this attempt proved to be fruitless because
of the inability of the Governments of the Eastern Caribbean
to reach agreement on certain aspects of the Federation, and
because of the fact that the British Government tacitly im-
plied that the financial burden of these islands would fall
on Barbados since the British Government refused to talk
finance with the territories.

The surveys carried out by Miss Ursula Hicks and Dr.
Carleen O'Loughlin have plainly pointed out to us in these
parts what a burden Federation would be to the islands; and
since the Government of Great Britain has refused to talk
finance, it means that if Barbados was stupid enough to
go into a federation with these islands, despite the fact that
some members of the Barbados Government are dedicated
to Federation and are full-blooded West Indians, we should
put our house in order and see that a federation should not
be overwhelmingly at the expense of the taxpayers of Bar-
bados. When we consider that currently the grants-in-aid to
the territories in the Eastern Caribbean by the British
Government are approximately $7,8 million, and we con-
sider that the British Government is not even making a
contribution to the extent of the grants-in-aid which are
now being given to the territories as clearly brought out
in "The Agony of the Eight" on which members on the other
side prided themselves and congratulated the author we
can clearly see that the only answer to this is that Bar-
bados would be saddled with this $7.8 million a year, in
addition to whatever it takes to establish and run the affairs
of a federal administration.

I am sorry, Mr. Speaker, that the hon. junior member
for Bridgetown is not in his seat, because he has attempted
to represent his views on Federation by what Professor
Arthur Lewis has written in "The Agony of the Eight"; but
that hon.member seemed not to have read the entire book-
let, He referred to certain pages in the booklet, but he
failed to refer to the salient points which give nothing to
Barbados but to step on to Independence. This booklet on
page 21 points out that Barbados has little to gain from a
federation with the Windwards and Leewards. The hon.
junior member for Bridgetown spoke of the small islands,
but he missed the bus, in that in one breath he points out
that Sir Arthur Lewis spoke of the need for co-operation
amongst these islands, when just two pages further he
points out that Barbados is a special case.
12.10 p.m.

In the entire booklet the emphasis as regards Barbados
is that the Premier of Barbados was dedicated to Federation
and that Federation was almost thrust upon him. He points
out that it makes little difference to the Colony of Barbados.
Further in the "Agony of the Eight" Professor Arthur
Lewis pointed out that political independence must be pre-
ceded by economic independence. He points out in the same
"Agony of the Eight" that Barbados was financially in-


dependent many years ago, whereas these islands have
had to depend on assistance and grants-in-aid from the
British Treasury.

Now, the federal talks centred around an independent
Federation; and if, as Sir Arthur Lewis puts it, and as the
hon. junior member for the City pointed out, this gentle-
man is one of the greatest experts in the area and that he
respects his views and so on, these other territories are
not financially independent, whereas Barbados has been
for years financially independent, thenthehon. juniormem-
ber for the City is confusing his own argument.

Sir Arthur Lewis points out that political independence
must be preceded by economic and financial independence.
The talks centred around an independent Federation. Do
you not see that Sir Arthur Lewis was putting a case for
the independence of Barbados? Barbados is the one ter-
ritory which can only be independent politically. If the
federal talks centred around an independent Federation and
this is what the Seven or the Six or the Five wanted, it
would mean that Barbados would have to make the other
islands of the Caribbean financially independent. It would
mean that Barbados would have to carry the burden of
the other territories which wanted to come into a federation.

Is it fair to the poor taxpayers of Barbados who have
made sacrifices to see that you have proper schools in Bar-
bados, proper means of communications, proper roads -
is it fair to ask those taxpayers to make further sacrifices
to makeSt. Lucia, St. Vincent and allthe other islands
independent? Sir Arthur Lewis is the authority whom the
hon. junior member for the City has praised on economic
knowledge academically, and Sir Arthur Lewis points out
that we must be financially independent before we think of
any political independence.

My point is that what Barbados is doing is to establish
a sort of economic independence not only for Barbados but
for the other territories when we resort to a free trade area,
and I have read out to this Honourable Chamber yesterday
afternoon what would be the benefits of a free trade area.
The three territories Antigua, British Guiana, and
Barbados have joined in the free trade area, but the
other islands are not precluded from joining. As a matter
of fact, they had been notified to participate in the dis-
cussion. St. Vincent sent observers to the first Conference
on a free trade area in these parts. St. Vincent has done
no more up to this moment, but the other territories have
not shown any interest. They have not said that they are will-
ing to participate in the free trade talks.

The establishment of a free trade area is more than the
building of the economy in these parts. It means that in-
dustries in Barbados or in the other territories which
form part of this agreement can be assured of a market
in these areas that formpartof thefree trade area. It means
that an industry in Barbados would have access to the
Guianese market without any sort of tariff barrier. It means
that industries in British Guiana would be able to enter the
Barbados market or any other territory that joins this free
trade area without any tariff barrier. Hence the amount of
trade carried on between the territories in the area would
inevitably increase and, as a matter of fact, they would
have high tariff barriers against similar produce manu-
factured outside of the free trade area whichare sold in the
free trade area.

This is the first step towards economic co-operation,
economic association or regional co-operation in the
territories. Dr. Eric Williams was projecting an econo-
mic community for years in these areas. Despite the fact
that he has written about it and projected it, he has not taken
the initial step in establishing an economic community
within the areas. Instead, Dr. Eric Williams has withdrawn
from what be considered was a waste of time in the Federa-
tion whichwas dissolved in 1962. At the same time he was
projecting a sort of Caribbean economic community and
he has withdrawn from the political association. He sees
the need in these parts, as any intelligent person would
see, for an economic association.


I












Sir, T cai-.ot understand howhon. members onthe other
side can state on the floor of the House that there will be a
loss of trade in the area if Barbados goes independent. How
can there be a loss of trade when we are encouraging the
same territories to come together in the free trade area?
12.20 p.m.

There must be an increase of trade. There may be a
question of zoning of certain industrial development in ter-
ritories which are most suited to a particular type of in-
dustrial development, but the position is that trade must
increase. Despite the fact that Trinidad went independent,
some territories which the people on the other side say we
should join in a Federation with, have pulled away from
Barbados and they have increased their trade with Trinidad.
That is what hon. members on the other side have been
preaching for months now, and they would say that we should
go back to the country and say that they are representing
the people in their best interests a bunch of hypocrites.

Mr. SPEAKER: As to that expression which has been
used by the hon. member......

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: I am referring to the people
who have been preaching,.....

Mr. SPEAKER: But not, I assume, to any member of
this Chamber.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: I am referring to the people
who told the people of Barbados that there would be a loss
of trade in the area. After all, Sir, if you are accustomed
to eating bread and somebody offers you cake, you would
necessarily go for the cake. When you consider the fact
that Barbados is much more advanced than these terri-
tories, when you consider the fact that Barbados is different
from these territories, you must consider that there must
be an influx of people from these territories to an over-
populated Barbados. We have that already. I have some
statistics from the Labour Department which show that
at least 25/o of the people who are registered at the Labour
Department as being unemployed are not Barbadians at all.
They are people from outside the colony. They are from St.
Lucia, St. Vincent, St. Kitts, Dominica, Cuba, British
Guiana, Bermuda and Grenada, They are registered at the
Labour Department for employment in Barbados. They are
not employed in Barbados now, but the taxpayers of this
country are asked to feed them. We are asked to feed
able-bodied men and women who want to live on the money
of the taxpayers of this country. That is what hon. mem-
bers on the other side of the House are asking us to support.
It is all right for a member of a parish to come down here
and when he sees somebody in this parish he shouts: "Look
at my Daddy" because that person feeds him, I am not
opposed to the money of the people of Barbados being
spent on Barbadians; I am a Barbadian first and anybody
else after, I did not sit at the Federal talks here because
I was sceptical about that. We have people who are too
proud to go and beg someone for a meal; but other people
who are willing to work cannot get any work to do be-
cause of the people who have come to this country. They
are the people from the territories which we are asked to
federate with, and when a domestic servant says that she
will not work for $12.00 a week those people will work for
$6,00 a week. The same people whom we are asked to
federate with come to Barbados, and instead of allowing
the people of Barbados to get a respectable wage for their
work, they will tell you that they will work for $6.00 a
week when employees in Barbados are asking for a wage
of $12.00 per week. The result of the influx of these people
in Barbados has resulted in a lower standard of living for
this country because what these people can live on, Bar-
badians cannot live on.

These people are not represented by the Barbados
Workers' Union, They encourage all sorts of immoral
practices in the colony, and the Barbadians are not getting
any work. You have an industry established in Barbados
and how many people, how many Barbadians, are employed
by it? We have to consider the standard of living which has
been secured for the people of this country: I do not be-
grudge the average Barbadian who is demanding what is
his worth, but the employer prefers to employ a worker


who will work for less wages, Hon. members on the other
side of the House have not got any shame, and they are
telling us that we must federate with the people of these
islands. Mr. Speaker, the only thing that we can get from
a Federation with these people is a reduction in the living
standards of the people of this colony.
12.30 p.m.

We have made a pledge to the people of this country
to improve their standard of living which they are proud of,
not to reduce it. If you take a look in the Castries area, you
will see the housing conditions under which the people who
come here live. Go in Nelson Street and see how they
live, with twenty of them in one 2'X3' house. Public
health must deteriorate in this country, and every year
we have got to increase the vote for Public Health, and
provide hospitalisation for a lot of foreigners who come
to Barbados and reduce the standard of living and the
standard of Public Health. Some do not know about going
to a water toilet, but are accustomed to going in the yard,
and this is what some of them do; so the children of this
country must suffer. We have not had a recent case of
typhoid fever; but if we encourage these standards, we
will have an epidemic of typhoid in the area where they live.
We will suffer from hookworm and other social diseases
because of the fact that they have brought their poor living
standards to this country. Yet people on the other side in
the Opposition Party are walking about this country tell-
ing people that we must federate with them.

Mr. Speaker, Barbados is economically viable to go to
Independence, and to Independence we will go.

Now the hon. junior member for Bridgetown has gloried
in the fact that he is a Conservative and will remain a
Conservative. I am not saying that the hon. member is a
stooge for the white Conservatives of this country, but I
do not consider anyone who is a stooge for the Conserva-
tives to be a Conservative. The point about it is that I do
not see how a black man in this country can profess to be
a Conservative. He can be used by the Conservatives, but
he can never be a Conservative, not when be considers what
the Conservatives have done to the black race of this coun-
try and in the Eastern Caribbean.

Hon. members on the other side spoke about the loss
of trade which Barbados would suffer by going independent
alone. Let us ask ourselves one question. Who carries on
the business of this country? Then let us ask ourselves
another question. Whom do the members on the other side
- some of whom profess to be Labourites represent?
Are they representing the masses of this country when
they talk about the loss of trade to the White man or the Big
Sixes of this country who have dominated and want to con-
tinue to dominate the country? We are not interested in
them. We are interested in the fact that every Barbadian
should be a man in his own country. Every Barbadian
should have a country, and Barbados should be that country.

Let me go back to history and think of some of the
kings in the Middle Ages. Let us think of Henry II. Do you
know why Henry II had to be dethroned in 1258? It was be-
cause he took foreigners into his country and made them
his favourites. In 1258 the Poiteirus, the Provencals and
the Husignals were in England and were favoured by King
Henry II of England, and the result was the dethroning of
King Henry. The result of the campaign by members on
the other side would therefore be an expulsion from the
House of Assembly when we go back to the polls, because
they are doing nothing but selling out the masses of this
country.

Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. member referred to members
on the other side. Is there any member of the House who is
selling out the masses of this country? I will tell the hon.
member that I regard that as language which contravenes
our Standing Order No. 26 (7).

Hon, A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, when one en-
courages the selling out of the masses of a country, do you
think that person is fit to represent the masses of that
country?











Mr. SPEAKER: What I am dealing with is the phrase
"selling out" in reference to an hon. member of this
Chamber.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: I will withdraw that, Mr.
Speaker, and put it this way. A person who goes throughout
the length and breadth of this country preaching Federation,
because certain people of the plantocracy and the business-
men of this country have been encouraging them to preach
Federation, is a traitor to his own country, and to the peo-
ple who went to the polls to elect him. It is clear as crystal
that some of the people who claim to have the interests of
the people at heart, and who claim not to have done any-
thing which was not in the interest of the people are only
paying lip service. The hon. senior member for Bridgetown
said yesterday that he has never voted against anything which
was in the interest of this country. Ask him what happened
when the Tenantry Bill was introduced in this country. Ask
him if he did not try to stifle debate on it and whether he
did not want it postponed so that the notices served on the
people in Richmond Gap would have come into effect before
the passing of this bit of legislation.

Mr. SPEAKER: Is the hon. member imputing improper
motives to any member?

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: I am not imputing improper
motives: I am giving the facts. The hon. member said there
was only one Bill he was against, and that was peaceful
picketing. He inferred that this was something not in the
interest of the masses of this country. How could he say
that he never voted against anything in the interest of the
people of this country when he voted against peaceful picket-
ing, and had his name recorded intheMinutes of this House?
One does not always have to vote against anything which is
in the interest of the country. One can come in and speak
against it and notvote, as somewilldo on this Independence
Resolution.

Mr. SPEAKER: Is the hon. member referring to hon.
members?

Hon, A. DaC. EDWARDS: Yes, Mr. Speaker. Do you
think hon, members would be stupid enough to vote against
this Resolution? They could not go back to their constitu-
encies, Already some of them have been thrown out of
their constituencies and have to go in at night when the
people are asleep,

In continuing, Mr. Speaker, I will refer to the speech
made by the hon. junior member for Bridgetown who spoke
of the arrowroot industry and what could be done for that
industry if we federated with these islands, I wonder when
the hon. member last went to St. Vincent! I wonder if he
knows that it is not economic to grow arrowroot in St.
Vincent or those islands where arrowroot is grown.
12,40 p,m,

I wonder if he knows that the arrowroot industry is dying
if it has not died already, Iwonderif the hon, member knows
that it is difficult to find a market for the arrowroot indus-
try, and because of the increased price for labour it is not
economically feasible to grow arrowroot any longer. The
hon. member says that he can do something with the arrow-
root industry, The present state of development in that
area does not make it feasible for the people in that area
to concentrate on arrowroot when there are other develop-
ments which are more feasible than the arrowroot industry.

The hon. member spoke about the pumice stone in
Dominica and said that some people would find employment,
and so on, but he does not know that the Virgin Soil in
Dominica is most difficult to get at, nor is he giving any
consideration to the cost involved to develop the virgin
soil in Dominica. On the other hand, take the amount of
Virgin Soil in British Guiana and take the amount of re-
sources there where the free trade area is. As I pointed
out in the preamble, the establishment of a free trade
area is the first step Customs Union, and this would
mean that at some stage or the other there would be some
freedom of movement among the people involved in the
free trade area. That will be one of the reasons for the
association of these territories, when the people of Bar-


bados can go to the territory of British Guiana where only
one-third of the area is developed. If we have the choice
between going to British Guiana and Dominica for devel-
opment, it is a better choice to develop the territory which
would take less money than to develop the one which seems
impossible to be developed.

The hon. member spoke about cement. I wonder if the
hon. member knows that cement is produced in Trinidad
and that Trinidad is still trading withVenezuela. The point
about it is where you can have the cheapest form of devel-
opment and where the people can have the cheapest com-
modity, that plays a very important part in any form of
industrial development in an area.

I find it difficult to understand the premises on which
hon. members on the other side have been arguing this
question of Federation, I sat here and asked myself this
question: "Do some of us have a conscience?" Some of us
do not have a mind of our own. Some of us have a mind that
we must be the slaves of the Big Six of this country and
that we must always fight for them and put their cause. That
is what some of the other hon. members on the other side
have been doing. They come here and fight the cause of the
Big Six today, and tomorrow they are kicked in their rear
parts by the same people whose cause theyhave come to the
House and championed. They champion the cause of those
people. Let them lose a seat in the Legislature and you
would see what will happen to them. They would be passed
as if they were never known. Black people like myself can
say that they are championing the cause of this business
community and the plantocracy, when other coloured people
in this country have had to fight against those people for
years! The entire coloured community of this country is
aware of the struggles which have been fought against Capi-
talism and the keeping down of the masses of this country
by their fellowmen: yet, you hear some of them saying
that they are Conservatives. The only reason why they
are Conservatives is because they are championing the
cause of people who have no uses for them. Ask yourself
the question, if they were not who they are, if they could
go and enter the front door of the people whose cause they
are championing. Why is it that some of their own brethern
cannot go to the front door iftheywant to have a conversation
with them? When they want to have a conversation with them
and they go to their homes, these people tell them: "Sonnie,
come around to the back." The black people like myself are
saying that they are Conservatives.

Sir, I would tell you a story. Conservatism was thrust
upon me in 1956. Iwas on a pasture teaching some children
and giving them some training in athletics, although some
hon. members do not think a school was initiated by me in
those days. I was known from training those poor black
people like myself, and I was introduced to two gentlemen
and I was told that I am now a Young Conservative and I
would be a co-Chairman of this Young Conservative group.
They had a white man on one side: and because I was de-
pending uncertain people for a living, I was forced to be
co-chairman. Sir, I do not interfere with certain people:
but when they come to insult me, I will let the cat out of
the bag. In 1956, I did not know what being a co-chariman
would have pushed me into, but now I understand: and any-
think which the hon. member can raise in here, I have the
ability to understand.
12.50 p.m.

Every night a car with a white man would come to my
door and carry me to some part of the country, but after
1956 they did not come. I was unknown after the campaign
in 1956. They did not knowthat whenthey wanted to do some-
thing for the masses of the people. I was thinking more of
the job and I was thinking of my conscience. I am not
ashamed to confess that. Mr. Speaker, I am still speaking
on the Resolution relating to Independence for Barbados.

Mr. SPEAKER: I am glad of that assurance,

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: They are saying that they
do not want Independence for Barbados, but they want
Independence within a Federation. They want that because
the Capitalists of this country are afraid of Independence
for Barbados alone under the present leadership. That is


~1












all it means, Tiey are saying that they are not against
Independence, but they are against Independence under the
leadership of Errol Barrow. Do you want the people of this
country to be where they were 20 years ago? We do not
want that. We feel that the things which are now enjoyed
by the plantocracy should not be denied the masses. We want
to make every Barbadian feel that this is a country which
belongs to him, and it does not belong to six groups of
people who have been for years dominating the Capitalists
group of this country.

Some time after Barbados issued a White Paper there
was some stir. Certain members who were at one time
associated with the Government, took it upon themselves to
go down the islands saying that they are canvassing the
opinions of the Chief Ministers. I was in Dominica when
it was told Mr. LeBlanc that certain people, who had been
cutoff from association with the Democratic Labour Party
on the issue of Independence of Barbados alone, said that
they were going down on the Federal Boats to see these
Chief Ministers to put them up against these Barbadians
by canvassing. He told me that it was his intention to de-
clare any of them who came to Dominica a prohibited im-
migrant. He failed, however, because when be heard about the
matter next morning these people were in Dominica already.
Mr. Joshua, the Chief Minister of St. Vincent, complimented
Barbados or its decision to go Independent alone and so did
Mr. LeBlanc. Those who were opposed to the White Paper
which was issued by the Government of Barbados, were going
to these Ministers in order to canvass their opinion, and
these same Chief Ministers of these islands have compli-
mented Barbados for going into Independence alone. We
want to have our representation overseas looked after by
Barbadians, and not by people who do not know Barbados.

Mr. Speaker, some years ago we were suffering from
the lack of doctors in Barbados. Because the recruitment of
doctors had to pass through the Colonial Office, several
doctors who would have been appointed by the Civil Service
Commission of Barbados, were not made available. Even-
tually Barbados had to go without the services of these doc-
tors who were appointed by the Public Service Commission
of the colony. That is what people are opposed to, and so
they must be kept tied to the political strings of England,

Mr. Speaker, as I was saying earlier, it is a fact that
a Federation with these colonies mean an influx into Barba-
dos of people of the working classes who would undermine
the employees of Barbados. Barbados has about 18,000
unemployed, according to the statistics which have been
revealed by the Labour Department, What hon. members on
that side would like to see is that these people remain unem-
ployed whereby they would have to depend upon them for a
daily living at the expense of the taxpayers of this country,
and when an Election comes along, theywillbe able to say:
"My Daddy gave me a mealwhen I was not working," How-
ever, Sir, they do not see the foreigners are coming in and
working for small wages for which Barbadians would not
work. It is a fact, Sir, that if these people were not in Bar-
bados some of the unemployed Barbadians would be employed.
They do not see that a further influx of people from these
Caribbean territories would mean that Barbadians would be
put out of work: they do not see that more Barbadians would
be placed on the unemployment list and these unemployed
Barbadians would be placed or thrown onthe mercies of
politicians and they would have to see after the interests of
these people at Election Time.
1.00 p.m.

Mr. Speaker, the more you can keep people depending
on you for a living, the more secure you feel your position
is; but we on this side think differently. We feel that
every Barbadian should be able to buy himself a meal
We believe in public assistance only for the infirm and
sick, but we do not believe in public assistance for able-
Doaea people, and we are tackling this question of assis-
tance to the aged by introducing either later in this month
or very early next month a Social Security Bill, to which
social security scheme the employers who are repre-
sented by some members on the other side will also have
to contribute. They oppose Barbados having Independence,
because if they are successful in having their amend-
ment passed, social security would never be introduced
in this country, and the employers would not have to con-


*l.


tribute tothewelfareofthe masses. This is the real issue.
It is not a question, as some hon. members have said in
their remarks, that they are not really opposed to Inde-
pendence, but they feel that if the Party now running the
Government is dethroned, lots of things which are on our
programme will be pushed aside, because they would not
be in the interest of the plantocracy and the Capitalists of
this country. That is why there is this big campaign against
Independence for Barbados. Barbados is the only place in
the world where I have heard the people say that they want
Independence, and some people have the effrontery to say
they are going to oppose Independence for their own coun-
try. British Guiana says It wants an independent country.

Mr. MOTTLEY: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, I
hate to interrupt the hon. member, but the hon. member
is lapsing into the mistake, whether wilfully or not, of
saying "those on the other side" which would include
members of the Official Opposition "are campaigning
against Independence". The hon, member could not be
characterized as a person.....

Mr. SPEAKER: Let the point of order be made.

Mr. MOTTLEY: Other people made points of order and
were allowed to make preambles. I am making the point of
order that the hon. member is lapsing into the mistake,
whether wilfully or not, of saying that we are campaigning
against Independence. The hon. member would have heard
all that was said, and having heard myspeech as Leader of
the Opposition Party, he should not attempt to mislead peo-
ple in that way. We said we were opposed to Independence
alone and made our position clear; so the hon, member
should be decent enough in making his remarks to say how
we are opposed to Independence. We are not opposed to In-
dependence as such, and he should not continue saying that.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, I make no
apology for saying that members on the other side went
to the length and breadth of this country preaching against
Independence for Barbados alone. Are they going to deny
that?

Mr. MOTTLEY: The hon. member did not say that. He
said we are opposed to Independence,

Mr. SPEAKER: That is not a point of order.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: I will repeat, Mr. Speaker,
that hon. members went the length and breadth of this
country preaching against the Government's proposals for
Independence for the country, Independence for Barbados
does not mean Independence for the territories of the
Caribbean; so when you oppose the Government on its
White Paper for Independence for Barbados, what are you
doing? It is universal knowledge that the Government of
Barbados has been opposed on its policy for Independence
for Barbados by hon, members on the other side, We have
asked for Independence for Barbados because it suits
our purpose to be independent,

As I pointed out earlier, an hon. member used "The
Agony of the Eight" as a basis of argument on the question
of Federation, but I will repeat for the convenience of the
hon. member who is now in his seat that the same Sir
Arthur Lewis said in "The Agony of the Eight" that before
a people can be politically independent, they must be fi-
nancially independent, and he pointed out that as Barbados
has never been a grant-aided territory, and has been
handling all her financial affairs in the past, it could not be
placed in the category of these islands, and therefore Bar-
bados was a special case.

The point I was making is that Barbados is ready for
Independence; and despite the intrigue by certain people
in this community, despite the fact that they have kept
people out of their beds for hours slandering the members
of this Government, as the hon. senior member for St.
Andrew would put it, they cannot stop the current. Bar-
bados will have Independence this year and they cannot
stop it. The position, Mr. Speaker, is that when they attack
the Government on its Independence policy and certain
Ministers took it upon themselves to resign from the
Government, they thought the Government would have been




..cy';


defe~ed in the Legislature, there would havebeenan election
and the Conservatives would run this country again. Never
aaip iP the history of Barbados will Conservatives run this


Furthermore, Mr. Speaker, I am serving notice on
thbie wl* are now preaching Conservatism that if I have
to rn against any of them, he will lose his seat in the next
elections.

Mr. Speaker, I think I have said enough to defeat the
argulmnts put forward by certain members on the other
sids and to convince them that the thing for Barbados is
Iqipendence, because "We shall overcome."

Mr. WALCOTT: Mr. Speaker, I think the time has
cQ when I should lend my voice to this debate. I am
going tohurt some of myfriends, and I do not think that
after I have finished speaking, there is going to be any need
to lkap you punishing in the Chair any longer,
1,10 p,m.
arbados is a society of smug hypocrites, a society of
make*believers, a society of political dish-washers. The
1bn. Leader of the Opposition is a man whom I regard as a
friend of mine: but he is the biggest political anachronism
in'td Twentieth Century that we have ever seen. The Hon.
4L4ad of the Opposition and his colleague, the hon. junior
metlmlr for the City, made what I regard as the most shame-
laes sVeeches shameless in the extreme -- for men of
colour. For the hon. member to shamelessly state that
owig to his origin and his beginning, he owes nothing to
his owncolour, how could he be any fit person to be a repre-
$tNative of the people? The hon. member has betrayed
every bit of education he has got here on the basis of try-
ing to rqdeem something that is unredeemable. The hon,
member is a man who prides himself to be a schoolmaster
with thousands of underprivileged children whose destiny he
is holding in his hands, and he has the effrontery and brass
to say that he will always be a Conservative. The people
whose destiny he has the honour to preside over do not
feel hat where the destiny of their children is concerned,
it is in the wrong hands. I say that he is unfit to give to
those children under his control the teaching which they
should have; he is unfit to givethemeans of a proper edu-
ction to the young people who attend his school; he is unfit
to be a man lofted to the position he holds: and he has the
brass to say that he has nottolook back at his own regime
and say but for the grace of God he is where he is: but he is
saying to those who have praised him, 'I am one of their
greatest standard bearers
The hon. junior member for Christ Church will speak
for Mhm,

Mr, SPEAKER: Not necessarily,

Mr. WALCOTT: The hon. junior member for Christ
Church is fit to be a Conservative. I have been in this Cham-
ber for 21 years and have found him to be the same man. He
is fit to be a Conservative because when you look around
this table, you can see that we have completely liquidated
politically every person in this Island looking like him
holding a seat around this table. But whom has he got as
his standard bearers? He has as a shining light the hon.
seaior member for St. Michael who made a speech yester-
day on this matter. He knows as much about this debate
which we are engaged in as I know of the astronauts who
went p in the air. He is a political fool in so far as this
debate is 'concerned. He is an absolutely political nonentity
to this debate.
Mr. SEALEY: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order.
I would like the hon. senior member for St. Peter to with-
draw his remarks of calling me a fool. I think it is unpar-
liamentary,

Mr. SPEAKER: The qualification which was used bythe
bon, senior member for St. Peter "a political fool" -
is not in my view an unparliamentary expression.


Mr. WALCOTT: The bon. senior member for St.
Michael should know that I would not saythat he is a c *m-
plete fool because he is a successful business man. He is a
man who has risen to a position in business that is worthy
of comment for the mere fact that he has risen in that man-
ner, and has risen to that height; but when he made a poli-
tical decision and made that type of decision which he has
made, he can only be classified as a political fool, because
only a political fool can make that decision after rising
to his position in a community like this.

Mr. SPEAKER: I do invite the hon. senior member for
St. Peter to pay less attention to the individual and more
attention to the subject matter under discussion.

Mr. WALCOTT: Sir, I am going to pay attention to
hon. members of Parliament and all that they have spoken.
I am going to pay attention to what they said and what they
stand for,

The hon. member made a scathing remark about So-
cialism. Has he reached the stage in life that social life
means no social justice?

Mr. LYNCH: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order.
I did not know that Socialism was social justice,

Mr. SPEAKER: I am sorry; I have not heard the hon.
member.

Mr. LYNCH: The point that the hon. member is making
is that social justice emanated from Socialism. was won-
dering if you would point out that this is not the case.

Mr. SPEAKER: I am afraid that that is not a point of
order to direct any answer from the Chair.

Mr. WALCOTT: This shows the puerility of mind of
members whom we have in Parliament. They get up and
ask Your Honour to give an interpretation of what is
Socialism.

Mr. SPEAKER: I am afraid that there is such unfor-
tunate precedent.

Mr. WALCOTT: Yes, there is precedent: but by what
kind of Parliament?

Mr. SPEAKER: I am not responsible for allhon. mem-
bers ofParliament.

Mr. WALCOTT: I do not have to join with them. What
I do say is that the hon. junior member for the City has
made some very scathing remarks about Socialism which he
despises, and he believes that Conservatism is something
very good. But in this debate, I would like to let him know
that those of us who subscribe to the political philosophy
of Socialism believe in social justice.
1.20 p.m.

We do not believe in any privilege; we do not believe
in class: we do not believe in any favouritism being given.
We believe that men are born free and that they should be
given every opportunity to develop their talents. Socialist
philosophy underwrites that every child which is born in
any society should be given the opportunity of developing
its talent to the fullest capacity without hindrance by the
State or otherwise. If these tenets of Socialism cannot find
favour with the hon. junior member for the City, and he
is scathingly talking about Socialists as if they are flakes
which come down to this planet, those of us who are
Socialists are willing to demonstrate that if it had not been
for Socialists entering this century and the latter part of
the last century, men like the hon. member and myself
would not be adorning the seats of this Chamber now. In-
stead of that, we would be wending our way in the respective
canefields in Barbados and working among the Con-
servatives. (C heers.) Political history is nothing to the hon,
member. The hon. member believes that the world has come
into fashion: I believe and I feel that, as a slave, I have, in


____ ~1_












duty bound, to fight for freedom. If I cannot fight for free-
dom, then I am not deserving of the freedom which I now
enjoy.

This Resolution which supports Barbados stand for
Independence, cannot be side-tracked by the ignorance
which has been used against Independence alone. It is only
an ignoramus of the highest order who would begin to use
any other phrase than "Independence alone" when he is
speaking about Independence for Barbados. The Hon.
Leader of the Opposition unfortunately does not read
enough; he is too wealthy a man to take time off to read
about Federation. The hon. member has never travelled in
these Federated islands: he was placed in the invidious
position of leading an opposition which he had no right to
lead because he did not win the Election. That is the un-
savoury part of the matter. He has no more right to lead
the Opposition than I have to fly a jet plane because I know
nothing about it. The hon. member is leading the Opposi-
tion by false pretences.

Mr. SPEAKER: I should like to remind the hon. member
that the appointment of the Leader of the Opposition was
made by His Excellency the Governor.

Mr. WALCOTT: I do not have to bring him in the de-
bate. I have great respect for him. I was saying, Sir, that
the hon. senior member for the City won no Election so as
to be regarded as the Leader of the Opposition. He was in the
minority and he will always be there. He was elected to
lead the Minority Group in this island for personal reasons.

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member interjected hisplanfor
Federation, and what did he say? He says: "I am not against
Independence" but what is he against? Is he for Indepen-
dence? The hon. member is a Barbadian churchgoer. I
would say this: this day you must decide where you stand.
Are you for God or are you for the Devil? A man who had
fallen did not know what prayer to make. If he goes to Hell
the Devil was civil, and if he goes to Heaven, it is the Good
Lord. The hon. member says that he is not against Inde-
pendence, but he is more than against Independence. He
went on platforms time and again and spoke against In-
dependence for Barbados. I want to say, Sir, that if it had
not been for Independence, the hon. member would not
have been here today. I would say this:

"Breathes there a man with soul so dead,
Who never to himself has said
This is my own, my native land."

Hon. members who have no self-respect or political
sagacity are not fit to be representatives of the people in
1966. We are at the beginning of a new era. They want to
run this country on a certain basis. I believe in what is
right, not who is right. That is one of the tenets I believe
in. Unfortunately, the Hon. Leader of the Opposition is
a man who believes too much in who is right and not what is
right. If a man is right, thenyoushould say that he is right:
and if a man is wrong, then you should say that he is wrong.
Many of us stood up in this island on behalf of the Hon.
Leader of the Opposition when he was elected for Bridge-
town and the parish of St. Michael in the first Local Gov-
ernment Election. We did that against the onslaught of those
who were saying a lot of things, fancy and otherwise. To
that one man in Barbados the Mayoral chain would have
been a memory. He would never live long enough to put
that chain around his neck. If it had not been for those
whom he now opposes we stood up boldly in public and
supported the democratic principles because we believe in
the ballot box,so that you do not tellius that we are'afraid
of an Election.All the forces of theBarbados Labour Party
at that time with theirmakeshift arrangements and with
their power did not create enough to invalidate the will of
the Electorate. What we said had the support of the Elec-
torate. Do not let us therefore talk about any democratic
principles, But there are strange political bed fellows; the
Conservative Party and the Labour Party can now join hand
in hand in defence of Federation, and to deny the right of
the people of this country to go on to Independence!
1.30 p.m.


I know it was the spirit of those of us who believed in
democratic principles that stood; and had it not been for
those of us who were not afraid, it would not have mattered
who was right. As I said, I will never ever hold the politi-
cal philosophy of the Hon. Leader of the Opposition, because
it is anathema to my soul. For me to be a Conservative is
as much as asking the Archbishop of Canterbury to go at
Harry's Nitery and deliver sacrament on Christmas morn-
ing. I am not here to consecrate the Conservatives.

The hon. member has a memory forwhichwe will
have to get a tape recorder when he makes speeches and
play them back for him to hear, because he said that no one
made speeches. The hon. member's memory maybe short,
but I do not miss. This is the sort of thing he would not like
to remember, but I have a good memory and I am going to
remind him and his colleagues of several things before this
debate is finished. July in this year will be twenty-one
years I have been in this Chamber, and I have seen a lot of
changes take place with persons who thought they were very
clever. Some have come here as seat warmers and voted;
some have made contributions; but I would say to the Hon.
Leader of the Opposition that if he is taking his vote today
in a debate like this, to use it against the people of this
country in going towards a rightful constitutional destiny,
my job is not only to expose this shallow thinking which has
been put forward in the speeches, but also to demonstrate
that men like the Hon. Leader of the Opposition, men like
the hon. senior member for St. Michael and men like the
hon. junior member for Bridgetown have nothing in common
with the political tenets of Conservatism that reigned in
Barbados for the last 300 years, and I am going to be at
pains to demonstrate that if they have something in com-
mon with that, then they are some of the biggest stumbling
blocks to progress.

The hon. junior member for Christ Churchisa member
of a family that is a successful business family, and I have
the greatest respect for them. They have demonstrated
among themselves an affinity and a loyalty that some of us
of a different ethnic group would do well to emulate. The
fact that they were fortunate or unfortunate to be born as
they were in Barbados gave them theenter into the financial
and economic area that was denied his honourable col-
leagues. For that reason, by association, by upbringing
and by life the hon. junior member for Christ Church,
being a Conservative, always had something to conserve
within the context of the economic and financial security and
built-in area that they were living in as distinct from the
open air of poverty that the other three hon. members found
themselves in. Yet they are telling me that they have the
same philosophy as the hon. junior member for Christ
Church who found himself in a completely different area.
It is likeone livinginouter space and the otherliving on earth,
and bothsaytheycanlivetogether. Youknow that before they
get up there, they will disintegrate and disappear.

Living in a plural society like ours, we have to ap-
preciate that the hon. junior member for Christ Church
has a right to live here and enjoy all the freedoms and all
the protections that any of us enjoys. I do not subscribe to
the belief that a white man has no right to enjoy the free-
doms that we have and the protection of the police. My
people also have the right not only to enjoy these free-
doms, but also to enjoy them in the economic security which
the community has to offer; and if they are not prepared
for that sort of society, then they are not prepared for the
kind of Independence we are going forward to.

Let us be quite frank. Conservatism maintains and holds
fast to the narrow and superficial obstacles that have been
created by colour, class and creed. Conservatism creates
class and privilege, and how you were born, as if you
have some control over how you were born. The economic
and biological processes that produce the species is beyond
the comprehension of the species that had been produced
then. To be blamed for that accident is one of the things that
Conservatism puts as a plank, and often you hear the bon.
junior member for Bridgetown say that conceit in a politi-
cian can be very dangerous. Nobody would understand what
he says or what he means when he says he has been so












blessed with knowledge, as if that is something that was
kept in a special area waiting until the hon. junior member
for Bridgetown found his way on this planet. Those are the
tenets that Conservatism breeds. A Socialist feels that all
men have the right to go to school.

Mr. LYNCH: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, I have
never said at any time that I was blessed with any knowledge
which was not available to others, as the speaker said. I
do not know if he is referring to the fact that it was a So-
cialist party which kept West Indians out of Great Britain.

Mr. WALCOTT: Mr. Speaker, if you accept that, all I
will say is that when I am finished with the hon. member,
I am going to strip him naked politically. I will take off all
his political clothes. If he knew anything about political his-
tory, he would know that had it notbeen for the Socialist party
in Great Britain, West Indians would not have been flocking
to the United Kingdom, because prior to 1945 and before the
Socialist Government came into power, Great Britain could
not satisfy its own people, let alone look for people to bring
in. It was the socialist Government that gave them full
employment, and they are now in a position to take in people.
That is No. 1 lesson for you to learn from your Socialist
notebook.

Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. member is still addressing
the Chair, I hope.

Mr. WALCOTT: When the hon. member talked about
political history, I would say that too many people in this
small island are playing politics by air.
1.40 p.m.


You had a Socialist system for thirteen years without
the Conservatives changing it. Now the hon. member is
telling us that these Socialists are on a different basis. I
am not a British Socialist. If the hon. member is a British
Conservative, I am not a British Socialist. Even in Socialist
Parties, there are some kinds of Socialism with which I do
not agree. The British Labour Party pretends that it is a
Socialist Party, but I do not agree with every thing they do.

The hon, junior member for Christ Church has been
representing his constituency since 1948 as a Conservative.
He did not campaign as an Independent or anything else; but
there are some people in this island who without any ethnic
reasons are going to vote for the hon. junior.member for
Christ Church and they do not regard it as something wrong
or racial; they regard it as a civic right of their position as
the minority in the community. They feel safe putting their
lives in his hands. I do not accuse the hon. junior member
for Christ Church of anything because he is what he is, and
because of that, people vote for him. But do not tell me, if
some of my own people demonstrate the same feeling to-
wards me as they do towards him, that I am looking only at
that. Thatis why Iaythatwhenyou get the hon. junior
member for Christ Church ad these threeother hon. mem-
bers of the Official Opposition in the same Party, the House
would have to come to the conclusionthathe is either a fool
in one breadth because he is trailing with the majority or
that the other three are not aware of their true political
position in life and what they mean to the people who put
them there.


Now, the Hon. Leader of the Opposition did a most
uncharitable thing to the hon. senior member for St.
Michael who is a member of his Party. He did not have the
courage to come in here and lead off for the Opposition in
what you would regard as a memorable debate, but left it
to the hon. junior member for St. Michael into whose hand
he pushed an amendment to the Resolution. I do not know if
he was making a political fool of him because this is near
Christmas time; it is not yet twelve days after Christmas
and the same Christmas atmosphere is prevailing with your
celebrating the Babe of Bethlehem and the Babe of Belmont
is introducing an amendment to the Resolution.


The Hon. Leader of the Opposition did not have the
parliamentary decency to second the amendment to the
Resolution, but he thinks the other members over here are
political idiots and did not know what he wanted to do: so he
got up and said: "I am speaking on the main motion, I am
not speaking on the amendment." What kind of leader are
you that you are going to put an amendment in the little
Babe of Belmont's hands? I am going to use the phrase
"these Machiavellian politics" are the onlypoliticsthatthe
hon. Leader of the Opposition knows. Sir, in cricket if you
play down the line, it shows that the wicket s not turning it
is playing easy. You can play forward; you do not have to
play on your back foot. If you think that I am not giving you
good advice, ask the hon. Deputy Leader of the Opposition
who used to be a bit of a cricketer. You play on the back
foot when you are not sure. What do you find? The bowling
is not too fast, but the little Babe from Belmont comes in
here with an amendment to the Resolution, and his leader
comes in, watches the strange political move and says:"I
am speaking on the main motion; I am not seconding his
amendment." This is a Party of four members. Three of
themhave not spoken yet,but the Leader of the Oppositiondoes
not second his own amendment: as a matter of fact, nobody
has seconded it yet. (A VOICE: That is not true. The hon.
junior member for the City did so.)

I understand that the hon, junior member for the City
has seconded it. The hon. leader of the Opposition believes
in these sort of political Machiavellian methods. The rea-
son why he did not second the amendment is because he is
going to talk on the main motion and come back and talk on
the amendment. I do not have to look for a second wicket to
come back on to bat.
t.50 p.m.

Those of us who believe in Independence for Barbados
are going to vote for it. We are going to vote for Inde-
pendence for Barbados not only as registeringour intention
to vote for it, but we will take our responsibility to demon-
strate to the public that we are fit to be the representatives
of the people of this Island and have to carry out their des-
tinies. We are not going to mince any matters about this.

Mr. Speaker, when I realise that the hon Junior mem-
ber for the City and the hon. junior member for Christ
Church are in a society I would like to analyse the people
who are in that society politically.

Mr. SPEAKER: Hon. members.

Mr. WALCOTT: The word "people" is not used in a
sense other than"hon. members". I do not seek to deni-
grate hon, members from this position. I realise that the
hon.Junlor member for Christ Church is living in a plural
society and is a member of the minority in that society;
but it is the most financial and strongest economic sector of
a society with a democratic situation prevailing in order
that hon. members like the hon. senior member for the City
and the hon. Junior member for the City can be there. There-
fore it is convenient for the hon. junior member for Christ
Church to have with him people of that pigmentation so that
they can have a front and a facade. What I have said is
without any affront to a white man. A Party of all white
men standing up politically has as much chance of winning
the Electorate as a cow has to go to Sunday School. The hon.
member is a Conservative user. You find an area for con-
venience. The hon, junior member for the City is different
from the hon. Leader of the Opposition. The Hon. Leader
of the Opposition is an unrepentant, political anachronism,
but the hon. junior member for the City cannot claim to be
so old in this political life.He is a man who has beenbornin
the emancipated eras he has lived alifethrough an emanci-
pated era and be isaman who is capableof evaluatingwhat
is taking place in his time and among his own people. He is
a man who writes books, and therefore he subjects him-
self to some sort of discipline. Any man who does that,
who subjects himself to mental discipline and with his
analytical mind, when a man comes out with that bramn
bold-faced statement about Conservatism within the
context of Barbadian society, within the context of his


__












beginning, within the context of what he has grown up and
seen, he is not a confirmed anachronism: he is just a po-
litical -- well, I cannot use the word. His political con-
duct would be most unethical. For a man like him to
have read as he has read, to have lived as he has lived
and cannot find a haven to rescue his poor struggling
brethern, but he can only find a haven of rest around an
area of people in Barbados who belong to the possessors, the
plantations and merchants who, for centuries we have been
struggling to get through that is the only area where they
can give protection to the poor, struggling masses of our
country. In the evening of our time when we are moving
from Colonialism to Independence we find them dragging at
the door of Colonialism and lecturing as to how good it is
to be here as subjects.

I remove the hon. senior member for St. Michael from
this category. He is a political innocent: he knows as much
of what he is going about as to ask the two people in Sputnik
to tell us what is going on.

SUSPENSION OF SITTING

Mr. Speaker, I have some indications that it is time
to give you relief in a more definite and positive way. I
therefore beg to move that this Sitting be now suspended for
half an hour.

Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: I beg to second that.
The question that this sitting be row suspended for
half an hour was put and resolve din the affi mtive with-
out division, an d Ifr. SP E KER suspended the sitting ac-
cordingly"

2.00 p.m.

On resunp tion:

Mr. SPEAKER: When the Sitting was suspended, the hon.
senior member for St. Peter was addressing the Chair.

Mr, WALCOTT: Mr. Speaker, when I commenced my
speech, I made mention that we live in a plural society, and
bythat I mean that we have in our society people who can be
regarded as White people and people like myself. I am glad
that now I am making this point the hon, junior member for
Christ Church has returned, because I did not know I had
liquidated that side so early. I felt I would have liquidated
them, but that it would have taken a little longer. However,
I should explain that in a plural society like ours, Indepen-
dence does not mean that we are going to.banish people.
Independence does not mean that we want to change from a
White aristocracy to a black aristocracy. We do not want
the worst elements of the black society to take over from
the worst elements of the white society. We do not mean
by Independence that we are going to put white men under our
feet and say that this is a reprisal for what their grand-
fathers used to do to our grandfathers, and therefore they
have to get scared.

The meaning of Independence in a plural society like
ours is for the best on both sides and in all elements to come
together and make their maximum contribution to the coun-
try to which they owe a loyalty. (Cheers). And I will say
to the hon. junior member for Christ Church as much as I
say to myself that our first loyalty is to Barbados and not
to St. Lucia, Grenada or Dominica; and if his first loyalty
is not to Barbados, then he is not a fit person to be a repre-
sentative in the General Assembly of Barbados. It is the
Barbados community that gave us the right and the opportu-
nity to be able to express our political views; it is the Bar-
bados society and the people of Barbados that gave us this
authority; so we owe it to our people first to create for them
and to build for them an edifice that has the first loyalty to our
own people,

Mr. Speaker, Federation cannot be the first loyalty to
the Barbadian. The Hon. Leader of the Opposition, as the
English say, plays he is a half too smart, but he is not a
half too smart in Parliament; he is a half too smart when he


is outside; but when he comes in here, we pin him down to
parliamentary behaviour, and this damp squibb amendment
is only to give the hon. member an opportunity of talking
again, because he does not possess the political acumen in
a debate like this which would make him capable of making
one's speeches comprehensively to cover all the facets
of the case. He has to play by air: so he has to listen to hear
what one says. He is playing an ordinary drum which you
do not have to play by music; so you only have to beat a bass,
the only old bass you play to any melody. Mr. Speaker, I am
not going down that line of vulgarity to say who went to
gaol and all that. You can deal with all the prisoners and all
the gaol-birds outside; but today let us deal with why
Barbados should go independent or why it should not.

The gravamen of the argument of hon. members who
spoke against the Resolution seems to be only personal,
and not on the basis of what Independence means, because
the Leader of the Opposition started off by asking who said
he was against Independence. Whoever said he was for Inde-
pendence? For that reason, I want to quote because I do not
want to be misunderstood for many reasons.

At this stage of our history, Independence is very vital.
The newspapers of this island do not help the progressive
cause, and for obvious reasons. The progressive cause is
never the cause with money: the progressive cause is always
to help the under-dog without money, and the newspapers
always go along with the ones that can keep advertisements
going. I will say en passant that only a couple of days ago I
saw in a newspaper a columnist writing an article denouncing
most vehemently the average road worker. We know that
some of them are lazy, but you would never find a corre-
sponding article by that same sort of man who is out of
the same class as the road worker condeming the lazy man-
ager or businessman. He does not know that there are some
good for nothing business managers who instead of being
at their business, find themselves at Bathsheba drinking
rum and getting drunk and running down the business; but
you will rarely find an article saying that the failure of
some business was due to the inefficiency, callousness and
indifference of the manager. They project the manager as
a symbolof virtue and efficiency, and a poor man as a
symbol of laziness and inefficiency. They do not know that
the poor man can be a symbol of efficiency too. The fact
that there are more poor men than managers is no excuse
for the lazy, and may I say here now in parenthesis that one
of the fundamental elements in Independence is that all of us
have to work hard, and even harder than we were working
before.

Mr. Speaker, I am not projecting Indepe dence as a
panacea for all our ills, thatweneednot work anymore, that
the day after Independence the sun will not rise in the East
anymore, but will come up in the West and bring with it gold
and we would not have to work.I know and I believe that the
mere fact that we are goingtorunour country independently
means that we have to work harder, and we have to intro-
duce new dimensions into our thinking to grapplewith all the
problems that Independence brings all the lag-overs from
Colonialism, all the lag-overs from people awaiting to
have something done for them. These are the things we
have to project, and those of us who are responsible for
leadership have to do these things. I would say therefore
to the hon. junior member for Christ Church that I am not
vexed or embittered because he is a Conservative; I would
be surprised if he were not, and I would look upon him
suspiciously. I feel that your political background, your
economic and financial position put you in the position to hold
on to something.

Mr. SPEAKER. To whomisthehon. member referring?

Mr. WALCOTT: I am referringtothe hon. junior mem-
ber for Christ Church. That remark could onlybe applica-
ble to you, Mr. Speaker, within the financial and economic
context, not within the political context, and I would say
that even if you were a Conservative, itwould be excusable,
because it would be understandable that an affluent society
sometimes produces affluent persons. For persons with
the affluence of the hon. junior member for Christ Church,












family affluence and family financial ramifications, it is
expected that their whole political philosophy would be on
the basis of being cautious. Some people see Conservatism
in the context that all of us are Conservative in the literal
sense that we conserve our health; but that is not political
Convervatism. When we speak of political Conservatism,
we mean our political philosophy.
2.45 p.m.

Now, I do not say that the hon. junior member for
Christ Church is a rapacious Conservative because living
in a society like ours, he has to live along with certain ele-
ments in order for him to make peace not only with the
people of his own ethnic group, but also the rest, In a plural
society like ours today you will find people like the hon.
junior member for Christ Church stemming the tide and
feeling that they do not have the right to enter the political
arena. They feel that they have the right to contract out
of politics and leave it to their black brethern. I loathe
to see the day when member like him get back into politics,
However, because of the peculiar working of human nature,
there are people who feel that unless they join with the hon.
junior member for Christ Church they are not doing the
right thing, and you have these people who are bordering
in this society. That is why the hon, Junior member for the
City is saying today that he is not ashamed to be a Conser-
vative. That is why I said at the beginning of my speech
that we have a society of hypocrites. We have a lot of politi-
cal hypocrites, and at this stage of Independence, we have
to lay bare people who are not sincere,

I believe it takes a man and womanof ability, integrity
and courage to make their maximum contributions to our
society, and those are the people in my opinion who should
come first. Conversely, there is no rule over privilege,
crass ignorance, corruption or cowardice. We have
no room for it.

Mr. Speaker,IhopetheDeputy Leader of the Opposition,
the hon. junior member for Christ Church,would be willing
to defend his leader.
Mr. SPEAKER left the Chair and Mr. DEPUTY'
SPEAKER took the Chair.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, I hope the hon. junior member for
Christ Church would be willing to defend his leader who is
not in his place. At one stage when this Government first
came into power, the hon. Leader of the Opposition said that
this Government may be in power for the next three years.
He challenged me on one occasion. I remember on one occa-
sion. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I criticized the Hon. Premier on
the Bank's Brewery matter and, as you know, I mince no
bones of my criticisms. If I feel that you are wrong, I say
that you are wrong. I am different from the Hon, Leader of
the Opposition. Before the Leader of the Opposition makes
up his mind whether to criticise you or not, he has to take
a stroll beforehe can make his decision. He has to go to his
shrine of worship before he makes his decision.

Mr. GODDARD: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I rise on a point
of order. An allegation has been madeofthe hon. Leader of
my Party. The hon. member says that the hon. senior member
for the City has to take a stroll before he comes to a deci-
sion. That is not true. The Hon. Leader of the Opposition
always has his ears to the ground and be knows all the time how
things are going.

Mr. WALCOTT: It certainly is not hard if he has his
ears always close to the ground to know the feeling of the
people. I am sure he has sufficient signs on this question
about Independence already, and if his political hearing had
not failed him, he would not have come in here and talked about
an election. At the end of this debate some of you who are talking
about an election will find out that it was not an election which
you wanted. Now, be careful. It generally happens that the
same fellow who asked for an election finds out that when
elections come off he says that he asked for something else.

As regards the question of Bank's Brewery, I criti-
cised the Hon. Premier of his actions and I reminded him


of his mistake. What did the Hon. Leader of the Opposition
say at that time? He said that it shows that the Hon. Preme r
is a bigmanand it takes a big man who can make a mistake
and come back and say that he has made a mistake. I do
not know what was happening in those days.

The Hon. Premier brings down a Resolution for Indepen-
dence now, but everybody in opposition is saying that "I am
in favour of Independence, but Independence within a
Federation."
2.55 p.m.

Let us examine that childish statement. The members
of the Assembly are implementing a matter for themselves,
but some of them went back and stated how the Colonial
Office fought for the Independence of Barbados even in this
very Chamber before these people knew what democracy
was, as we are now understanding the terms if it. As you
know, Sir, democracy has different meanings at different
times. The Press in this Island fought the Colonial Office
for the handling of this island, and this Chamber fought to
retain certain things for Barbados years ago. Two hundred
years after, the products of the masses are subjecting us to
an exercise that if we fought for the political emancipation of
our country, that is something which we are doing in the
wrong way, and it is something which we should do first
and foremost by asking for a Federation; but none of the
colonies with which we want to federate, has asked us to
come into Federation with it. Are you stark mad? You in
Your House of Assembly, find it incapable for you to argue
your own right and you say: "Well, we want to go with our
family in the other territories." It is these political misfits
which we have in Barbados who are looking for an area of
agreement to join them together. All over the world there
are many people who do not like others, and that is why
there are so many people in the world. It seems to me that
the reason for arguing against Independence for Barbados
is not based on any rational grounds.

The hon. junior member for the City read a lot about
Sir Arthur Lewis, but I would remind the hon. member that
Sir Arthur Lewis was a Socialist, and not a Conservative
like the hon. member. The hon. member is using a foremost
Socialist in the world within the context of a particular ar-
gument so as to satisfy his mind that we are wrong to go in
for Independence as against going into a Federation first.
The hon. member is forgetting that this is not an exercise
of Federation versus Independence; This is an exercise
of Independence for Barbados. This is like two people who
are going to play cricket and football, and one of them wants
to know if the other will put up his wicket sticks before he puts
up his goal posts. Whenever they have finished speaking and
arguing, there will be Independence for Barbados; we will
live in here and we will accord them certain positions too.
In Independence you will not get a one-way ticket to go to
Mozambique, Bechuanaland, Basutoland (Mr. MOTTLEY:
Ghana.) Ghana is not suitable for you; the economy is too
rich. Hon. members onthat side of the Table are fighting
for human rights and independence, and we are now having
a debate as to whether we should have Independence in 196, ..
Some of those hon. member thought that the vote would have
been different, but now they have found it is not different.
Some of them talk about going to England. The hon. member
says he has money, but has he got money as compared
with Rockfeller? And he is still Governor of New York
State. When you begin to say that you do not want cheap poli-
tical power, political power means something to a person who
is in politics. Now when the vote is going against them they
come out with this dance ticket. The hon. member will get
back up and talk about who went to gaol The hon. member
cannot answer me because these things are indefensible: the
hon. member cannot defend his political position.

These are emancipated days, and what the hon. mem-
ber should be doing is to be joining forces with the people
who are fighting for the emancipation of the masses. Do you
want to preside over the destiny ofa poverty-stricken com-
munity or do you wantto create an atmosphere in which people
can work for a living? If your mentality is one in which you
glory in having alms for the poor and not for the emancipa-
tion of them, that is your way of thinking. Does the hon.











member want that?It is not a question of retaining the slums;
we have to think in terms of removing poverty. We do not
want to have any more poor people.
3.05 p.m.

What virtue is there in poverty? Those who are not
poor believe there is a lot of virtue in poverty for them to
be continually saying that had it not been for the Grace of
God, they would not be where they are; but they are not
there. Had it not beenfor the grace of God, Iwould be there
too. It is all well and good to go and look for a sick per-
son and offer your sympathies; but I would prefer to go
and sympathise with the person than to be on the sick-bed
receiving all the flowers; so you can keep all the flowers
and the sympathy and let me walk about.

My criticism, Mr. Deputy Speaker, is more an analysis
than it is because I am embittered, because if a man has
an undying love for money and financial position, and any-
thing in his political life would cut across these ambitions,
then he would avoid it. The reason why the hon. junior mem-
ber for Bridgetown made that bold statement about Con-
servatism is because in a community where economic
power resides in the hands of the few, he is a blue-eyed boy
among the money classes: he can get credit more easily
than some of us who have made a greater political con-
tribution than he has, because he is making a statement
that reinforces his position of power. As I said already,
if you made an analysis of the people who have mortgages
and overdrafts in this country, you would be able to under-
stand the reason for their political philosophy. If some of
these things were published, you would understand why some
of the people in this country talk the way they do. It is be-
cause these financial involvements in which they have
been engaged over the years have so entangled and chained
them to these things, that it becomes absolutely impossible
for them to break those bonds and free their people who
are not entangled in these things.

The masses, Mr. Deputy Speaker, have no mortgages
or overdrafts; they live from morning to morning going to
the market place, buying this and that. Ihave said on a plat-
form and I will repeat here that the people whom the hon.
junior member for Bridgetown says he is representing do
not live in the Orleans or the other villages. The people
in the villages that voted for him are not people with sen-
timents of Conservatism; so when hegoes tothem, he goes
as Jekyll and Hyde, because if the others went themselves,
they would be rejected. They have taken him because he
looks like them. The hon. senior member for Bridgetown is
a Conservative user, and that is what those who say they are
Conservatives have done to this country. The danger
about this sort of political life is that'here is no hope for
young men: if they see that people like these three hon,
members can be elevated to political position and then
they hold this financial position and power, they feel that
that is the best course for them. Sometimes young men
doubt whether it is wise to go in on the progressive side,
because it looks as if you suffer too long and you get no
reward. Politics is a very unrewarding game.

Let us look at the words of the hon. members who
say they are opposed to the principle that is being enunciated
here, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

"To omit the words after "convene" and to substitute
the following words therefor:-

"After the holding of elections in Barbados to decide
whether Barbados shall proceed to Independence......

Now they want an election. Do you mean that since they
have been elected, they do not know if Barbados should pro-
ceed to Independence? That is true; they are in the minority;
so they do not know. Nobody has given them any power. Did
the hon. senior member for Bridgetown go back to the peo-
ple in Bridgetown and ask them iftheywanted to be cremated
when they died, or did he and his group decide this is the next
step to take because the cemetery isgetting small? I am an
elector. When did he ask me if I wanted to be cremated? I


see that he is going to ask the Bishop. Does the Bishop
speak for me? Did the hon. member have a referendum?
For all these years we have been accustomed to putting
people in graves, and people come and cry over the grave.
Did the hon. member ask anybody about this change? This
is the old time political stunt each time there is an issue.

Before we had adult suffrage they used to say that the
masses of the people could not vote; but now they will come
back and say you have not got a mandate from the people.
How can you get a mandate from a man who cannot vote?
The man who cannot vote cannot tellyouif you want to vote
or not. Do you think that somebody has Independence
covered down as if he were cooking food, but it is not opened
yet and we have to go and ask if we can have it? This is not
a minorityGovernment like Ian Smith's in Southern Rho-
desia that is declaring Independence. This is Barbados where
all of us have been elected on an adult franchise basis, and
are you telling us that with all the political developments
that have taken place in the last twenty-five years, the
people of Barbados are in doubt about Independence? The
viciousness of it is that too many of the opponents of
Independence went around the country giving people the
impression that Independence is going to make them lose
their freedom.

Any person who is Leader of the Opposition holds a
responsible position; and if I were in his position and I had
to say on a platform that it was mooted within the Govern-
ment Party that they intended to lock up somebody, I would
come in here with a Resolutionof "No Confidence" because
we could not have confidence in a Government which was
going to take away our freedom and liberties. The things
that have been said outside should be said in here, and let
hon. members answer to them.If hon. members are saying
that their liberties and freedom are going to be jeopar-
dized by Independence, why not say it?
3.15 p.m.

I would like to see the Hon. Premier taking away my
freedom. I am sure that somebody would get killed. There-
fore, what is the point of somebody going to take away
my freedom? It is political cowardice that we have people
walking about with these silly ideas telling other people
that you do not know this man and what he will do. It is
political cowardice in those who are walking about talking
about these things. Sir Grantley Adams has his bad ways
like all of us. He is laid aside now,and all of us would be
laid aside one day.

We are living in 1966. When the Hon. Premier came
into power, Sir Grantley Adams said that the Hon. Pre-
mier's Party was a Party of wild boys. In one breath you
call them wild boys, and in another breath you say the
people seem to be richer under this Government of today.

Sir, I have an article in my brief case which a Canadian
brought to me from Toronto and it demonstrated the
viciousness of some people. We have some vicious people
in this island, and their viciousness has no bounds. The
article which I have here is aphotostatic copy of an article
in the "Montreal Star" and it contains a photograph of
the Hon. Premier.

Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Is it the intentionofthe hon.
member to make that a document of the House?

Mr. WALCOTT: If you request it, I will do it; but so
far it is just a photostatic copy.

Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am just asking the hon.
member.

Mr. WALCOTT: Why are hon. members requesting me
to make it a document? The Clerk came to Your Honour and
drew something to your notice. Why did he come to you?

Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The Clerk came to me at
my request. Does the hon. member Intend to make that a
document of the House?











Mr. WALCOTT: I would like to be treated as other
hon. members of the House; but if I am going to be a
guinea pig, well, I want to know why I am a guinea pig.

Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have just asked the hon.
member if he is going to make such copy a document of
the House. I did not ask him to really do so.

Mr. WALCOTT: I have no such intention.

Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Well, keep it.

Mr. WALCOTT: Thank you very much. I do not intend
to read all of it. My mind is not geared to read long arti-
cles.Another reason why I do not intend to read It is because
I understand from the Hon. Premier that this article is
sub judice owing to it being the subject matter of some
Court proceedings that is to be carried on. I therefore do
not think it is proper to read it at this stage, but this is
the sort of thing which has emanated from people in
Barbados. We have to trade and do business with people in
Canada, and that article is creating the impression and
the image that Barbados is likely to become like Ghana and
similar places in Africa and, therefore, you have to be
afraid when we get Independence.

Now, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Iheard on a political plat-
form people talking of the Trade Union and myself. I would
like to ask hon. members at this stage, which one of you can
put me under your thumb. How can you imagine that I am
under somebody's thumb? I have been in here for 21
years, am I am still like Noah's ark ... I do not have any
money; I do not boast abou having any money, therefore, I
can talk in here or anywhere as I like. If I bought a property
and am paying for it, or I do not have any money to pay for
it, you have to wait on me. Therefore I feel that is my
business.

Therefore, I feel that all those persons who made those
statements against the Hon. Premier madethem as a means
of trying to bring down to disgrace the Hon. Premier. But
what do you find? In order to bring down one man, the whole
argument is being used against Barbados going for Inde-
pendence alone. You would have to pity someof those people
who are opposed to Independence for Barbados when you
take up what they have written in the Press and said in
here.

I do not go in for the local political machinations be-
cause nobody can come to me and ask me to do something
which I do not intend to do. My organization supported
Independence for Barbados on the 29th August, 1965 and
we finished up with a member ship onthe 31st December,1965
of 3,377 members more than what we had last year. There-
fore, if you have said that theorganizationwhichyou have
for people have rejected you for doing something, I say
far from doing so, the same people have shown that they
are willing to support the stand which I have taken.

We of the Trade Union, represent the highest block
of people in any one organization, more than any other
single organization save the church, and the Church does
not go in for politics. The Trade Union movement is a
Twentieth Century institution, and that is what we have to
teach you in the context of 1966 Trade Unionism.
3.25 p.m.

Here it is, an organization is supporting the Govern-
ment, and we are not supporting the Government as an
organization to be given anything by the Government.
This is an organization which is going to celebrate its
25th anniversary in November of this year. This is an
organization with which I have the honour to celebrate
my 21st anniversary on the 1st January, 1966. Therefore
you can see that my association is with an organization
like that; my years with that association and my years in
Parliament would give me an excellent opportunity to know
that we are symbolising somethingwhichthepeoplein Bar-
bados desire or do not desire.

Let us analyse this amendment.This is what standsbe-
tween them and the people of Barbados. After the holding


of Elections then the people of Barbados must decide
whether they will have Independence within a Federation.
This is what the amendment says:-

"After the holding of Elections in Barbados to decide
whether Barbados shall proceed to Independence within a
Federation, comprised of such territories in the Eastern
Caribbean as are willing to join in such an association or
alone......

They are saying that we must go to the polls to ask the
people whether we shall proceed to Independence within a
Federation. Look at this ignorance How are you going to
know after an Election. (Mr. MOTTLEY: And you win.)
with a single member constituency you say you do not
want a Federation. (ASIDES).

Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I must hear the hon. senior
member for St. Peter, and the hon. senior member for St.
Peter only.

Mr. WALCOTT: The hon. senior member for the City
cannot keep quiet when he is not speaking. Mr. Deputy
Speaker, when we go to the people, what are the issues we
are going to put to the people? You say that you believe in
Independence within a Federation. When you are elected
do you say you have a mandate to ask Bousquet, Bird or
anybody else if they want to come with you? You did not
really win the Election; you want something to forestall
Barbados going into Independence. (.4ADES). As soon as
you talk about any sort of marriage, there must be the
question of willingness. Presumably every marriage is a
sort of willingness. As soon as you talk about this sort of
marriage well, Idonotwanttomake any anti-Federation
speech. I have the honour and privilege to represent Bar-
badians on a wider basis than anybody else. I represent
the I.C.F.T.U. on one side. I represent from British Hon-
duras down to British Guiana countries 2,000 miles
apart. Therefore, I have the confidence of more West In-
dians voting for me than any other hon. member of this
Chamber. I go through the West Indian Territories more
than any other hon. member of this Chamber or as much as
any other hon. member of this Chamber. I know the spirit
of West Indians. Therefore I am not making any anti-
Federation speech, but I will make a broad Independence
speech. We must be factual in all our life. We cannot
create political institutions in the abstract or in a drawing-
room, we can only create political institutions in the hard
and fast rule of political life. If you find that you cannot get
people to join with you in politics, if there is anything that
you cannot deal with in the abstract, then you have to leave
it out.

This is an exercise which we have been going through
since 1947. It is now 19 years since then, and we have not
got any Federation. The one which was started got broken
up. Barbados was given a constitution which is superior
to the African, the Jamaican and the British Guiana con-
stitutions or the Trinidad Crown Colony, and today we are
the only people who are putting in an amendment to Inde-
pendence for ourselves. Is it not shocking? It is not an
amendment from the hon. junior member for Christ Church
where you could say that vested interest is entrenched.
Whenever vested interests fail, when the political conflicts
are open, they may move on because somebody is coming
to hold on to you. Since Ministerialpower has been given to
Barbados, we have quickened the pace of life in Barbados,
and the commercial life has kept pace. I am glad that the
hon. junior member for Christ Church is here with his
colleagues.
3.35 p.m.

In a society like ours, it is not only good enough to have
these members sitting down with you in the House of
Assembly; wewantto seethe economic and financial trans-
lation of this community so reflected that people like the
same hon. Junior member for Bridgetown and people look-
ing like the hon. senior member for Bridgetown would be
in the hierarchy of business houses in Broad Street, and
not be placed in any condescending position. They should
be in a position where they can direct and be able to re-
flect some of the things they hold dear. If they want to post-
pone this, that is what they ar postponing.












What I want to ask, Mr. Deputy Speaker, is what are
the political motivations of the three hon. members who sit
with the hon. junior member for Christ Church. Do they
possess the same political motivations, the same driving
force that put him in politics? I say unequivocally "no".
How could they possess the same motivations? The politi-
cal motivation of the hon. junior member for Christ Church
would be a matter of maintaining what he was born into and
saw. When he was a boy, this House reflected himself; it
did not reflect me; so his motivationwould be to come to
some place he had a right to come to. My motivation would
be to break through and get in; so I would not have the same
motivation for coming here, because he could not be coming
here to undo; he would be coming here to play safe.

Mine is a critique of these political misfits, and I am
going to say in the name of a plural society that we are
going on to Independence in a plural society; nothing is
going to stop us from going on to Independence in a plural
society: but we are saying to those with economic power
that belong to a different ethnic group not to regard that we
have second class citizens in our community, and the only
way that can work is for the Government to put the level on
private business. The hon. junior member for Bridgetown,
the hon. senior member for Bridgetown and the hon. senior
member for St. Michael have no power; they sit in no citadel
of power to influence any of these breaks-through in de-
cisions, because they are not men with that sort of motiva-
tion.

In Barbados there are enough boys and girls going to
Harrison College and Queen's College, but what are the
highest positions they hold? Somebody talked about N. E.
Wilson: but he runs such a business that you can almost
call him one of the Big Six. But neither Musson & Dacosta
nor A. S. Bryden nor any of these big firms have seen fit
yet to elevate a black man to the Board of Directors. I am
not talking about somebody that would pass for white, or if
you told him he was black he would charge you for slander; I
am talking about the unmistably black man with ability. We
have some ignorant white people here, because some of
them are ignorant enough to say Mr. Walcott does not like
white people, as if white people are something to eat. You
know if you kill a turkey at Christmas, some people ask
for the white sections, I do not belong to that class that do
not like people, I like everybody so far as human beings
are concerned, and I do not despise anybody in the narrow
sense of colour or race,

Mr, Deputy Speaker, in an Independence debate like
this, I would be failing in mydutyif I did not make it clear
that the plural society we live in must undertake a role
that is in consonance with the society itself, and all of this
nonsense that if you put a black man in a high position he
will carry away your money or carry out your secrets
must go by the board. The time has come in Barbados
when we can have a black Bishopor a white Bishop, a black
Manager of a Bank if we have them: and therefore among
the races there must be this common understanding that
both of them have a right not only to live, but to enjoy and
acquire any position in this country that the wealth will
provide. I know there are some pussyfooters who are afraid
to say this, because somebody will say they are preaching
race hatred, I do not have to preach race hatred, because
it is not necessary; but it has been practised in my life-
time in the community in whichlwas born, and I am not in
a position to decry it,

On the eve of Independence, I will say that I am not
going into Independence with any idea of reprisals; I am not
handling out guns to anybody to look for white babies to kill
or white men to paint black, nor do I want a white man to
play he is blacker than I am, because there are some
white hypocrites who, as soon as theyseethe tides chang-
ing, want to become blacker than I am, and will tell you that
their great-grandmother was black. The hon. junior mem-
ber for Bridgetown says he is not a swerver, I could never
be a swerver. I could never be a swerver because I have
been for too long identified with the Socialist cause and
with the cause of representing the workers. You have black


people who are so for money, but a white fellow is going to
be so for security. He is afraid; and as soon as a man is
afraid, human nature being what it is, his preservation is
the first law of nature. The hon. junior member for Christ
Church will forgive me if I make so many references to
him, but there are references to him because he is the only
man of that ethnic group in this House. It is nothing per-
sonal because the hon. member knows I have a great re-
spect for him as a man and in his business and allthatgoes
with it. My respect for him cannot however dim my view
about the general situation in this Island whichhas to under-
go a change. Some of the tensions that people speak about
are tensions that they know are true; and some of them
are afraid. If in a general way you raise matters pertain-
ing to your constituency, some people want to say that you
do not like white people. As soon as you say you do not
like something, they say you do not like white people. I
do not have these things in my mind, because I will say
that there are some people who will say these things in a
general way; but as soon as they get an opportunity, the
only people they want to see are the same people.
3.45 p.m.

I hope the hon. member does not think that this is an
indictment against the people. What I should say on behalf
of the people is that some of them are very tolerant, but
I do not accept tolerance as a substitute to commonsense
and fairplay. I would say in a general way that this society
shows a remarkable potential for change. There are some
young people of this country today who are appealing to
the more affluent of our society, and they are beginning
to understand that they have to live in a society like ours
with everybody. This basic element whichisgrowingup
is the one which we have to encourage.

But we have to build up a society without fear. They
have to wait to make their contribution to society. It is only
a couple of weeks ago that a young lawyer, Mr. Waldo
Ramsey, represented Tanzania at United Nations. Here it
is, you have a young Barbadian, not representing Bar-
bados, but representing an African territory at United
Nations. What are we looking forward to if young, in-
telligent Barbadians are not prepared to make their con-
tribution to our society? Are you prepared to put up with a
colony in that a decision is made by Mr. Bousquet, Mr.
Compton or Mr. Bramble before young, intelligentpersons
can make a decision for their own country? I say "no".

Sir, I do not agree with the nonsense which I hear that
we must go through the exercise of the amendment to the
Resolution which is only for the purpose of giving the
member the opportunity to talk again.

The amendment reads as follows:-

"To omit the words after "convene" and to substi-
tute the following words therefor:- "After the holding of
elections in Barbados to decide whether Barbados shall
proceed to independence, within a Federation comprised
of such territories in the Eastern Caribbean as are willing
to join in such an association, or alone, a conference
representative of all political parties to arrange for the
Implementation of the decision taken and for the establish-
ment of an independent nation at the earliest possible
time."

Now, Sir, one politician talked about defence. What de-
fence are you talking about? Because Barbados is going
to become independent, does it mean that you must get an
army and navy? Are we going to start a war with St. Lucia?
To capture what? Avenues? Or are we going to start a
war with Antigua? To capture what? Filaria?

Sir, analyse the practicability when the hon. member
talked about trade. When they talked about trade in the West
Indies because of the number of people, do you realize tat
if it was because of numbers. China would have invaded
this country already? China alone has 900 million people.
That is 25 percent of the total world population. With India,
if it were a question of population, they could have all the
trade; but it is not based on numbers.











Some people say that you are not going to benefit by
large numbers because these areas are not high potential
areas.They are areas of the same kind.If there is not the
possibility of our coming together with the other islands,
or that it is not imminent, the mere fact that we are able
to come to an agreement with British Guiana over trade,
should make us support our Government.

What do we see as regards the people who served in
the West Indies Federal Parliament? After four years the
members who served in the Federal Parliament got sub-
stantial handshakes. I think that I have qualified now for
a good pension after my service of 21 years to the Island.

Therefore, Sir, when hon. members want to use
this amendment as a means of having elections before In-
dependence, all that they really want to do is to postpone
the date of Independence. Sir, what have Itold them? Go on
with Independence now. Make up your mind now what are
you going to do for an independent nation not for an
election, because an election does not make you indepen-
dent. Do you know why they said that they were in favour of
Independence but in a Federation? They thought that they
had led the people into believing that Independence without
a Federation was going to carryawaytheir fowls; or if you
had a goat, as soon as yougot Independence, you would have
to pay taxes for your goat. They built up all these "Aunt
Sallies" around it.

Now, Sir, there is a gentleman who said that he would
be back. I think it is general Mac Arthur. The hon. junior
member for St. George coming out ofhospitalyesterday is
only a little bit of drama because you know, Sir, that he is
a political buffoon. This morning,there appeared a picture
of the hon. junior member for St. George in the "Advocate"
with somebody putting on his Jacket. He is an actor and it
is more picture taking with him. He came out of hospital
with the thought that this is something to create sympathy.
The hon. Junior member for St. Joseph should be the leader
now of the Barbados Labour Party which is comprised of
three I would not say three blind mice.
3.55 p.m
The Labour Party of Barbados has dwindled down to
three I would not say three blind mice or three sleeping
beauties. (L aui ter). I would say that they have dwindled,
and the bon. member has not got sufficient political
courage to say to the Deputy Leader of the Party that he
should hold forth, but he came out as if he were on some
grand mission of sympathy. The hon. member came to tell
us about Jack Leacock and the people whom he had saved.
There is nothing which you could do with a soul like that;
you have to thinkofsuchathlngas a memory. He feels that
we were better off in the colonial days than we are now. I
pitied the hon. members I thought that he should not have
been here. Democracy can be flouted. The Speaker should
never have allowed him to come into the House because
if he dies as a result he would feel as if he died a martyr.
If you feel that you could get in front of a bus and the driver
would stop, but he did not stop, and you think that the death
which ensued is the death of a martyr, that is to think as a
fool.

Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I take it that is a general
observation and not anything which be a discredit to the
Spealer.

Mr. WALCOTT: That was only a description. The Speaker
could not stop him....

Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I know what the hon. mem-
ber means, but I wanted to get an slucidation of it.

Mr. WALCOTT: I am pleased that you have asked for
that because I did not want any misrepresentation to be
given. Are we seriously saying that in 1966 the price of
freedom is measured by the cost? Are you telling us that
the way in which you can have political freedom is by
somebody giving you something at cost price as if you are
building a house? If you did not have representation, if you
did not have this attitude of metropolitan countries plunging
through the world, we would not bewherewe are. What are


you telling people about a colony as if it is some God-given
right that somebody has something and when we say that we
want to be free it is a questionof our breaking away from the
Deity? Why should we be asking the Colonial Office for this?
No secretary of State for the Colonies can tell us if we are
to have Independence or not. The Secretary of State for the
Colonies cannot even tell Rhodesia that. If you want me to
get rough I will say this. Is this as much as Harold Wilson
the Prime Minister ...... they have a plural society in
Southern Rhodesia with 200,000 people who are white
settlers and 4 million Africans. I was in the House of
Commons when Wilson returned from,Rhodesia in Novem-
ber. I went to the House of Commons and sat there and I
heard the longest statement which has ever been delivered
by a Prime Minister of England; and he said to a packed
gallery in the House of Commons that he was not going to
use any force in Rhodesia because of what the English people
said. I think the consensus of opinion was that they were
using force against their brethren in Rhodesia. He said that
the Rhodesian Government is a break-away Government, it
is illegal and be is treating an illegal and break-away Gov-
ernment as if it is a Civilian.

In the War you had sanctions on Italy against Abyssinia.
They suspended the Constitution in British Guiana; but
where we are crushing a minority they take away our power.
But where you get the reverse is that they say it is illegal
because we have no guns to use. Do you want the Secretary
of State for the Colonies to tell us if we want Independence
or not whereas the Rhodesians have declared their own
Independence? The last Secretary of State for the Colonies
had more sense than this; but do not allow office boys to tell
you what to do and he can make his own decision. It is time
for us to understand, when we have power, how to use it.

Under the Constitution they can put inas many amend-
ments as they wanted to put in, but people who have common-
sense knew what the position was. Because the Constitution
is written in this way, it is not carried out like that.
4.05 p.m.

The Government in power was elected by the people in
Barbados on a broad basis in 1961. It is only ignorance on
the part of those who do not study the events of time to talk
about a Federation, because Federation onlybecame an issue
with this Government subsequent to the elections. So they
did not have a mandate when they went to England. When the
Hon. Leader of the Opposition went to London for the Federal
talks, did he go back to the people and ask if they wanted a
Federation? Did he say he is not going because he is not
having Federation? All these were broad issues. But what
do you find? Now that the Government has brought down a
Resolution based on Independence, they are saying "Let us
have another election" as if there was not an election.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, I have here a vicious article writ-
ten by a gentleman whose name is John Crocker, and I will
read part of it to show that we have some vicious people
in this community. The article states:

"The fear is that if Mr. Barrow leads the country into
immediate independence, he will also make it a republic with
himself as Life President, that there will be no moreelec-
tions, and that Parliamentary democracy will cease to
exists."

What kind of fool that person could be? Even in Russia
there are elections. I wil go further.

"The seriousness of this growing alarm at Mr. Bar-
row's supposedly dictatorialtendencies has been underlined
by the recent resignation of two important members of his
Cabinet -- W. A. Crawford, Minister of Trade and Labour
who was also Deputy Premier, and Ersklne Ward, Minister
without portfolio.

Mr. Ward was Speaker of the HouseofRepresentatives
in the former West Indies Federation and is a man of vast
experience in both the political and judicial field in the
Caribbean.












Both told me categorically that if Mr. Barrow is per-
mitted by the British Colonial Office to take this island
into immediate independence, it will be "goodbye to
freedom".

That is what the man wrote. Imagine the hon. senior
member for St. Philip on my right meeting a man coming
from Canada and projecting that sort of idea for a Canadian
or any man to write in a newspaper. That is why I talk
about gaol Normally when a man can do that damage to
his country, where should that man be? Prison is too good.
These are vicious statements to send abroad. When a per-
son does that, he is not doing any damage to the hon.
senior member for St. John: he is doingdamage to Barbados.
He has broken with the Party, and he says that if the
country gets independence gone are elections. This has
been written in the "Montreal Star", a very important
paper.

He can say those things, Mr. Deputy Speaker, because
I do not believe that the hon. senior member for St.
Philip had any love at any time for the Hon. Premier, be-
cause the day after the elections in 1961, I said this was a
new era and the hon. member who is on my right, the hon.
senior member for St. Philip, asked me why I said so. I
read the article and I read the names, and the hon. member
is here and can speak for himself; These are the vicious
things we have in our community. There are some people
in this island that will join with any person when they
are opposed to another person, and I have sufficient evidence
to prove that. I see that strife is being raked up in this is-
land on the basis of who wants a job, and who gets compen-
sation, and members of the Government were trying to
create strife to see what they would gain. I have been in
politics long enough to know people. We have had a certain
amount of industrial peace in the sugar industry until
some people walked about the country and tried to influence
people that the Union wanted to deprive them of something.
When we go to Independence,we are not going with the worst
elements; we must go with the best; and if we cannot go to
Independence with the best, there is no point in having
Independence.

The people of all classes in Barbados should be made
aware that Independence does not mean exclusion; it does
not mean contracting out. Independence does not mean
reprisals on minorities. I saw some article talking about
minorities not having any rights minorities in Barbados
that have no political power. I would hate the day to come
that in setting up an industrial board you refuse to include
a businessman because he is not a member of the House
of Assembly or of the Other Place. I would hate the day
to come that a man because of the colour of his skin cannot
go and serve the public wherever his talents allow. I feel
that a black man, a brown man, a blue man, even a man
who has drunk the wrong medicine and has the wrong colour,
any man of whatever classification has a right to be re-
presented in public institutions.
4.15 p.m.

I am not a member therefore of that group of narrow-
ness who would say: "Oh! look, let us exclude any group."
It is not that I am not strong in my views in my Socialist
philosophy. These hon. members who say that they are
political Conservatives -- at the same time I do not deny
political Conservatism are only joining one with another
to win a seat, I feel deep down in my heart that they are
only running to get a seat. I would hatetosee the day when
you have an independent nation which is comprised of a
plural society and you exclude part of that plural society
from playing its part in the community I am sure that none
of us would have any objection to every segment of our
society participating to the full. The hon. junior member
for Christ Church has the right to participate with as much
interest as any of us.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, I have been told that it is time
to give you rest as you cannot get any relief: therefore,
I beg to move that this sitting be now suspended for 15
minutes.


Hon. G. G. FERGUSSON: I beg to second that.


The question was put and re solved in the affinnative
without division and Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER suspended
the sitting accordingly.
4.20 p.m.
On R resumption,
Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I notice that
there is no quorum and I ask that you instruct that the bell
be rung

Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Let the bell be rung.

The bell was rung, and a quo rm obtained.

Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: When this sitting was sus-
pended, the hon. senior member for St. Peter was address-
ing the Chair.

Mr. WALCOTT: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I think that one
of the salient features that one should bring into a debate
like this at this time is not the negative approaches that I
have heard that the cost to the community is going to be
burdensome,and it would be better off if we would be asso-
ciating ourselves with the people of the other colonies. For
example, the hon. junior member for the City raised the
point about what Professor Arthur Lewis said to this in
relation to any Federation. This is not in relation to this
Federation: but whatsoever Professor Arthur Lewis said,
I am sure we would be willing to admit that all federa-
tions all over the world have become verydifficult to work.
Even in the United States Federation, the Swiss Federation
all of them have found great difficulty in working them
and to start them.

There is no point in going into innumerable exercises
year after year like what we are going through when each
time that there is an election somewhere, after somebody
wins the elections they want something else. You get this
sort of thing going on all the time. I do not think it is neces-
sary for us to be continually pondering over these things.

What we have to be concerned about is whether Bar-
bados is capable of entering into Independence for the peo-
ple of Barbados, and if we can do for the people of Barbados
not less than what we are doing, and thus free ourselves
from the shackles which a Colonial territory has. We have
better roads, better schools, a better social service than
our neighbours, and our per capital income is higher.
Therefore all of the aid that will be forthcoming, we will
not be using it; the other colonies will be using it,

As regards the size of our population, it is a burden;
but the size of the population does not give you wealth.
There is no economic growth fostered within the other
territories. The population of a country itself does not mean
economic growth. Economic growth must takeplacewithin
the Colony or with the group. If theeconomic growthofthe
other Colonies is lower than your own, there Is no benefit.
Let us examine those countries of the European Economic
Community, their size and their population. There is higher
wealth obtaining in these countries than it is with 900
million people living in China. If thatwere so, China would
be the richest country in the world becauseof its vast popu-
lation; but unfortunately that is not so. Therefore, the ex-
pectation of your selling more and your doing more to
improve yourself is not based on population; it Is based on
purchasing power. If the purchasing power of the people is
increased, then it means that we can do more trade.

These are arguments put forward. Evenontrade. your
gaining Independence does not preclude you from trading
with the other people. Trinidad has Independence, but it
trades with all of the other territories. It does not work
out that way; people just do not say that they are not
trading with you because you are independent. Trade is
done on a competitive basis. If Barbados can compete
better in trade matters, well then, the people In the other
territories would trade with us. The President of the Cham-












ber of Commerce mentioned the fact that here in Barbados
the landing charges for goods to Barbados are cheaper than
anywhere else in the neighboring islands; so it means that
your intransit trade would be always attractive,
4.40 p.m.

The position of trade in Barbados is based along these
factors. The quality of your business depends on how much
you spend on your education. We spend a lot on education,
and therefore we are producing more people who are capa-
ble. The hon. member spoke of Sir Arthur Lewis and this
is something which is wider in scope where he was ana-
lysing the African scene, and he gave his reasons as op-
posed to the one-Party state. When the hon. member re-
ferred to Sir Arthur Lewis he would see what Sir Arthur
had to say about big areas. When you are operating a
democracy in a society like ours, it has to be borne in mind
that you are not operating a veryeasytype of Government.

I quoted fromthis newspaper for the purpose of demon-
strating something. I would say that more damage has been
done by opponents to Independence than has been done by
the proposal to have Independence for Barbados. Nat one
member of this House has said that he has been challenged
about theelections. One Trade Unionist has said that he
wanted Jamaica to be a Republic. The feeling that some
of these Commonwealth territories will be affected as a
result of the Rhodesian affair has made some of these ter-
ritories say that we will have a Republic. The minute you
begin to talk about freedom well, let us examine one of
the pillars of freedom in our society. When we come to the
Press, we have two daily newspapers in Barbados, together
with a few weekly rags. Can you say that the Press in Bar-
bados with all the exercise is free? What is it free to do?
Some sections of the Press are freeto slander people, some
are free to track people down and the others have entered
into vulgarity. There is no Government newspaper in Bar-
bados. As regards the daily Press, you will find that very
few of the policies which should be projected are projected.
Both of the daily newspapers which we have in Barbados
have given no objective situation about Independence for
Barbados. What do you find? If the monied class want to get
something done, an Editorial is written in support of it.
Look at the feature writers and take an analysis of them I chal-
lenge hon, members to find in these newspapers any critical
analysis of the businesses and how they are conducted in this
island, or an analysis of the finances and how they are con-
ducted in this island. All you will find is that these boys
are sniping at some political Party or institution. Have you
ever read any article in any of these newspapers projecting
that the close-fitting policy of business is inimical to the
best interests of this community and that the time has
come when that policy should be on a more open basis?
The Press has been checked so that when you hear people
talk about freedom, how free are we in a society where the
economic control is so hamstrung in the hands of a few
people that if anybody wants to buy so much of anything he
cannot get it? I really do not understand what people mean
when theytalk about freedom because I do not see any. I
am saying, Sir, that some attempt is being made at this
stage to give the projected image thatifwe get Independence
the present Premier of this island will take it to his feet
and ride roughshod over us,
4.50 p.m,

I am glad the Leader of the Opposition is there, be-
cause I want to ask him howmuchhas the Premier changed
from the time when he said that his Government should be
in power for 300 years? If he has changed a lot from that,
is it a change towards him or towards the people? Is the
hon. member measuring his change as a change towards
him or a change towards the people? Has his basic poli-
tical philosophy changed, or has your friendship waned a
little and therefore these things would come about?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, I am not dealing with the person;
I am dealing with principles. When I criticised the Premier
on the Banks Brewery issue, theHon. Leader of the Opposi-
tion said that it takes a big man to make a mistake and
then come back and say so. That is true. Well this is the
same man who in such a short time has become this


Frankenstein. The hon. member is joining with others to
say these things about a man whom he said should rule for
300 years. When the hon. senior member for Bridgetown
came back from the Federation Conference in London, he
told me himself what a terrific man the Premier was at the
Conference. Now at the eleventh hour you find not only the
Leader of the Opposition, but some of the Premier's erst-
while friends saying these things about him.

I would say, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that there are lots
of hon. members in this Chamber who are not ready for
Independence, but the people are. That is the fundamental
difference. The people are more advanced than the leaders,
because we have some shilly-shally members in this
Chamber who do not know how the wind is blowing, and they
have to put their ears to the ground. As soon as you are a
political leader, you have to be able to lead if you are
capable of doing that, not put your ears to the ground, I
have a beautiful example of seeing some of them at work:
some of them are just ordinary politicalcorks, just suitable
for stopping something down until you are ready to open it:
but so far as usefulness is concerned, they are no use at
all. I am waiting until election time comes to see if some
of them are going to face the polls again, and then they will
know because so far as their duties to the people of this
country are concerned, they do not pay any interest in them.
You can go and read Hansard and see how much they have
contributed in this House. What you get from them is a whole
lot of intrigue and manoeuvring; but when it comes to a
serious issue, you get speeches bandied about the country
as to who has money and who is getting money. There is
always a lot of money knocking about this place, and every-
body right and left accusing people for getting money. I
am not going to accuse anybody for getting money because
nobody offers me any. I have to work very hard for mine;
but I do know that politics sometimes makes strange bed-
fellows, and when I see certain associations, I become
suspicious. Imagine that people of a different political
philosophy can join so closely on an issue like this! You join
with them for reasons of a personal character; otherwise
you would not be Leader of the Opposition. (Mr. MOTTLEY:
Leader of the Opposition means nothing to me !) There was
political chicanery for you to become Leader of the Opposi-
tion; but if I were in your position, I would have to be
elected based on an election. I have examples here. There
are people who want to be Speakers, and whenever elections
come about, there is a group of you lining up to see what
you can get, and some fellows are left at the gates with
the bits in their hands.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, you cannot accuse me of lining
up anywhere, because I line up at the Union every morning.
When you want political power, youhave to make exchanges.
When you are running a Party, it is understandable. The
hon. member is a leader of a Party; so two Party leaders
have to go in for shuffling. They shuffle the cards and take
what comes out in the deal. It is not that the person might
not deserve it as compared with others, because in my
opinion it was Tweedledee and Tweedledum. The election
was over, a Party was in power and therefore it was a
question of agreeing to a Leader of the Opposition. I could
have been Leader of the Opposition, because there were
three Independent members, four Conservative members
and three Labour Party members; so there wereten leaders
on the other side. However, I will not be diverted into that
channel.

I would say, Sir that these political manoeuvres take
place whenever an important issue seems to be looming,
and we have the important issue of Independence looming.
This is not a question whom you are going for independence
to. You are not going for IndependencetoMr. Barrow; you
are not going for independence to the Democratic Labour
Party, or to the Barbados Labour Party or the Barbados
National Party. This is independence for the people of Bar-
bados. The question is: are the people of Barbados entitled
to live in an independent country? Yes or no? The answer is
for you to give. Why should we now want a Resolution to de-
termine after elections whether Barbados should go for
independence or not? Why did we not have an election to
have Ministerial Government? I was a member of the











Executive of this Island, and I heard all that nonsense
going on; but some people are looking for an area of com-
fort and an area of opposition too.

I am certain, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that if the present
Premier had brought down a Resolution for Federation, I
would hear all the same arguments against federation.
(Ch eers) There are some people who are looking into the
old waste-paper basket of forgetfulness for arguments to
use. If he had brought an angel, somebodywould be looking
under the angel's wings to see iftheywere put in right. They
have reached this stage ofopposingfor opposing's sake, be-
cause they have these built-in fears. We have these luke-
warm, tepid-water politicians who are not fit for these
crises and issues: and as soon as there is a man who has
some sort of courage and guts to stand up before them, they
back off and go into the wastepaper basket looking for bogus
arguments. If I have to disagree with the Premier, I tell
him so. I have disagreed withthe Premier on many issues;
but when I disagree with a man who holds my political
philosophy, it is a different thing, because I can disagree
with him on one issue and find agreement on something
else.
5.00 p.m.

Therefore, I do not run around the country and say
that the man is not any good. We are Barbadians. Is it
symptomatic of Barbadian character that you tell a man
that you will have no more elections after you get elected?
But where would you live? Even in Russia4 they have
elections. They have some people who are not in the Gov-
ernment who would like to have elections tomorrow. Imagine
that I have had all sort of intrigues in elections! Nobody has
been in more political Intrigues than I.

When it comes to this question of trade on your gaining
independence, the Hon. Leader of the Opposition asked us
if we have preached against Federation. I do not like to
read these articles in the Press. They had an article written
in the "Barbados Observer." Partof it stated and Mr.
Deputy Speaker, do not ask me to make this newspaper a
document of the House, As a matter of fact, it is part of a
newspaper, It was dealingwiththefreetrade area. It states:

"This, however, is no time for mutual recriminations,
but it is important to reaffirm the position of the Barbados
Government. While committed to the idea of establishing
a federation in the Eastern Caribbean it has never given an
undertaking to dissociate itself from other Caribbean
governments, The Free Trade Agreement in no way con-
travenes any agreement or undertaking made with the
Governments of the Windward and Leeward islands. In
fact, they have been invited to join in this Trade Agree-
ment. If they hesitate or refuse, Barbados cannot be blamed.
The first duty of the Government of Barbados, until it be-
comes a unit in a Federation of the territories of the Eastern
Caribbean, is to the people of Barbados. It is still ready and
willing to enter a Federation on just workable terms. It will,
we have no doubt, continue to try again for the achievement
of the objects set out in Command Paper 1746, but it cannot
allow itself to be forced by the unreasonable intransigence of
others to acquiesce in an indefinite stalemate, The interests
of this island demands action,"

Now, when you get these political hypocrites telling
us that our first duty is notto the people of Barbados but that
our first duty is to the Federation, notto Barbados, what do
you think? If your first duty was tothe Federation, it means
that your first duty would be 1 to let the people in those ter-
ritories elect you, Our first duty is to our own people
because our people gave us the right to come here, and we
owe the electorate a similar pledge to put their duty first.
No one in London pays any interest in your argument about
'elections should come first'.

Now, in all these articles which we have read, none of
the writers has the courage to get up and say that Barbados
is not fit for Independence. Do you know why? The bells
are ringing now and they are afraid. If they dare say what
they were saying yesterday that they do not want Indepen-


*1'


dence for Barbados, because Barbados is too small...... (Mr.
CRAWFORD: I never said so.) I meant you all.
They started off with that nonsense. I go further. The
Leader of the Barbados Labour Party said that it was non-
sense to have eighteen year-olds voting. Iwentto a political
meeting at which the son of the Hon. Leader of the Opposition
was addressing the people. It is true to say that he is a fledg-
ling in politics. He asked: "Do you want Federation?" The
people held up their hands. He then asked: "Do you want
Independence?" The people held up their hands again. The
Hon. Leader of the Opposition should tell him that you
should never put a question like that. The way he put the
question he got the wrong answer.
5.10 p.m.
These things I see in people. That is why I say that
these young people should take an interest in the life of the
community -- which is good for the community. I hope
that they will continue to come out in public life under Inde-
pendence and not take the position of sniping. It is disgrace-
ful for people to be walking about with these whispering
campaigns and say that they tackled you on the telephone.
Sometimes you take up a telephone, the lines are crossed
and you hear a conversation, but you do not know who is at
the other end. This is a community of gossip and you can
hear the ignorance of people. A lady said to me very frankly:
"I see that you are supporting the Government. Some people
say that I am going to be Ambassador to Washington. They
tell me that seriously. A lady told me: "You are going to
be an Ambassador". I asked: "To where?" And she said:
'To Washington." That is the sort ofthingyou are hearing.

When the Hon. Leader of the Opposition won the Muni-
cipal Election, I publicly said that he won the Election and
now he tells me that it has not come out to anything. The
consensus of opinion supporting the idea that he should
be the Mayor of Bridgetown was because some of us felt
that way. If the hon. member won the Election, nobody could
push anybody else from the side. You won the Election
and we gave you what was due to you. We did that and the hon.
member knew it. That is the first lesson which the hon.
member should get when he talks about fighting for Inde-
pendence. When you hear the hon. junior member for the
City speak in the way in which he had spoken, do you think
that he should run a pipeline from his school through
Harrison College so that he would be in contact with the
Headmaster of Harrison College? This is like a sweetheart
who has gone and you could as well look for another sweet-
heart because Federation has gone. (Laugh ter) You should
now fall in love with Independence. (L daughter .

Mr. Deputy Speaker, I do not think it is necessary for
me to travel any more on this ground. I hope that the hon.
junior member for Christ Church will take back to his
colleagues and friends the fact that it is not a question of
taking up their tracks from here and going to Australia,
Canada or New Zealand. This is our country. I am saying
that the hon. member has as much right to live in this
country as anybody else. We have as much right to live
here as you have. However, we want you to know as a
matter of fact, we want everybody in Barbados to know -
that we are going on to Independence, and we expect from
every citizen in our community that he will do his utmost
to make this country a better place for us to live in than
when he arrived in the country. (Cheers)

Mr. HLUBANDS: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I should like to
join in this debate. I should like to do so as a member of
a law-making body, and as one who has witnessed the im-
provements which have taken place from time to time to
what has led up to the present Constitution. I, too, think that
Barbados will be in a position to become an Independent
country. I cannot acknowledge the plaudits of the people
outside this building because they may be applauding too
early. I have not been going throughthe country and making
my views known of what was taking place, but in my con-
stituency I have been in daily contact with numbers of my
people and I communicated to them that my stand is for
Federation. I have my reason for that. Years ago, before this
generation was on this scene, this idea of Federation has
been proceeding. Some people fought for things from time to












ti-ne. The Leaders of these islands have been unable to
come together to form a Federation and it seems to me
that the idea is all forgotten. I am one of those people who
never talk when I think the wind is blowing the strongest, I can
stand alone.
5.20 p.m.

I am not courting anybody's friendship in this matter.
I have talked very candily with people who have conversed
with me during the past three months, and I have not
swerved from my opinion. I listened for a long time
to the Hon. Premier in his marathon speech which, I think,
had very little to do with Independence. As a matter of fact,
it is only when he came somewhere near the end that he
began to talk on the Resolution, and I make a summary
of some of the things he said, and Ithinkit would be fair
to him and to myself if I told this Chamber what I think
of some of the expressions he made.

After an introduction into the early history of this
Colony, beginning from its setting up and reaching to its
present state of constitution, the Hon, Premier just
digressed. He was not interrupted, but he was not con-
vincing. As a matter of fact, I believe in democracy and
in all the safeguards of democracy; and if I voted against this
Resolution, I too regard that I am voting for the people
of Barbados as much as those who vote for this Resolution
believe they are voting for the people of Barbados. Do
not think I am voting for the people of St. Lucia or Antigua.
I am voting for the people of Barbados, and time will tell
who voted carefully. I am unnerved and I am as calm as
a cucumber. I have not been influenced by any supposed
threats in this Chamber, and there have been many during
the course of this debate. Ihave maintained my balance and
will continue to do so throughout this debate,because we believe
that owing to the manner in which the regional talks ended,
the idea of a Federation must still be pursued. We also be-
lieve that the people of the area who think so would not be
deemed as traitors to Barbados; but after reference to things
like treason, I am beginning to be doubtful. What sort of
Independent state am I going to have to live in if we go
Independent now?

Let nobody think, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that I would not
be proud to be a Barbados Citizen; but we have so much
in common still, apart from the inability of our own leaders
to get together and produce a working formula, to usher
in a federation with the other Leeward and Windward Islands.
I believe that a West Indian Federation, no matter how big
it is, is the real answer to the economic improvement of
these islands,

If we had enfolded our less able brethren to us, I am
saying that the people of St. Lucia and Dominica could not
be so beguiled, after three years of the Federal exercise,
by people who worked withthem and told them almost nothing
until now. If that Tenth Regional Meeting had not broken up,
I do not think that we would have been told that even the
most insignificant among us would be called a giant in the
other islands. One thing is certain, Mr. Deputy Speaker,
and it is that ifinthis part of the Twentieth Century a political
federation cannot begin to work, as time goes on, there will
be need for a West Indian Federation. What is more, even
in the very Preamble of this Resolution we are told that it
is the intention of this Government to work in close colla-
boration with these islands. Although we are being asked to
forget a political Federation, there is ahint-- and more than
a hint an intention, a declaration, a promise, an offer that
we should see, magnanimously or otherwise, to the deve-
lopment and assistance of our lesser brethern in an
economic way. So you never get away from the idea of a
Federation anyhow.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, a lot has been said about the pre-
sence here of St. Lucians and Dominicans. The Hon, Premier
was 'oined by the Minister of Trade and Industry in saying
that they are responsible for about 50 per cent of the social
diseases in this island, and one Minister even said more. I
do not know if he spoke authoritatively as far as these social
diseases were concerned. That Minister went on, and as I
listened to his references to our unfortunate brothers from


St. Lucia, I could have imagined that I was listening to some
Teddy Boy in the United Kingdom making reference to West
Indians, including Barbadian immigrants there.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. DeputySpeaker, ona point
of order, I object to the hon. junior member for St. Peter re-
ferring to me as a Teddy Boy.

Mr. HUSBANDS: I never did that.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Beside the Hon. Premier, I
am the only Minister who spoke on this matter. I referred
to the fact that the filthy way in which some of the people who
come to this country live and Idid not isolate St. Lucians
in this case must result in an increase in things likehoo-
worm and the introduction into this country of typhoid fever,
5.30 p.m.

Because of the filthy way in which some of them live -
someof the people who come to this country- it shows that
they are not accustomed to the socialamenitieswhichwe
have. Because of the filthy way in which they live, there
is an increase in things like typhoid fever: and the greater
the filthy state in which they live, we are in danger of
having an epidemic in this country, either of hook worm or
typhoid fever.

The hon. junior member for St. Peter has referred
to me as a Teddy Boy and I object to that. I now crave
Your Honour's indulgence to ask that he withdraw that re-
mark.

Mr. HUSBANDS: May I continue, Mr. Deputy Speaker?
I am a man of peace. I sat listening to the Hon. Minister's
reference to our lesser fortunate brethern, and I said that
I can imagine listening to him just as a Teddy Boy with
reference to a Teddy Boy in England. I regret that you did
not hear me so well. I said, listening to the Hon. Minister
of Trade, Industry and Labour, to his reference to our un-
fortunate brethern who are not as rosy as we are, we have
migrants in England; and I can imagine I was listening to
a Teddy Boy making similar reference to West Indians in
England, including Barbadians.

Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Let the hon. member pro-
ceed.

Mr. HUSBANDS: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

Hon, A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I ask
that you have the record put straight and find out what the
hon, member said. I am sure that the hon. junior member
for St. Peter in his address made reference to me as a
Teddy Boy and that is what I object to.

Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Your objection is that the
hon. member actually, called you a Teddy Boy. The hon.
member repeated what he did say; and from what I hear
that he has said, I cannot entertain any objections on that
ground. I have ruled.

Mr. SMITH:(So tto Vo ce).Sit down.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: You cannot tell me to
sit down. Are you an idiot?

Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I shall call on the Hon.
Minister to withdraw that remark. I have heard a member
across the floor of the House saying "Sit down" and I
have heard the hon. Minister, across the floor of the
House, in a loud tone which I cannot resist hearing to
make use of the words in reply "Are you an idiot". I will
ask the Hon. Minister to withdraw that remark.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Deputy Speaker, withthe
greatest respect, I withdraw that statement.

Mr. HUSBANDS: The Hon. Premier made mention of
the fact that in the Manifesto of his party which was pub-
lished in the daily newspapers and to which the public
has access that there was mention of the possibility .......












Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKERI am sitting here and I cannot
hear because of thenole outside which Is cominglto his
Chamber. I will call on the appropriate authority to do
something about it. Members of the House mut be heard.

After a pause,

Mr. HIEBANDS: Sir, if I may continue, the Hon. Pre-
mier in his address made much of the fact that the D.L.P,
had a Manifesto, and it made mention of the possibility of
this country going Independent this year without a Fedra-
tion; therefore he regarded that as having a mandate from
the people. As a matter of fact, everyone knows that during
the last election campaign little or no mention was made of
Barbados going it alone. The electorate of this country did
not expect that Barbados would be going it alone. That is
known through the length and breadth of this country.

The Federal exercises got underway early during the
regime of the present life of this Government, and that
continued for three and a half years but it has come to
an impromptu end and the White Paperwaspublished. This
White Paper gives us an account of what had taken place
up to the time of the TenthMeetng of the Regional Council
of Ministers. I think that up to that moment we were com-
pletely in the dark.
5.40 p.m.
I am not going Into what I have heard. It may be that
hon. members who are more competent than I am may
deal with that. If this White Paper tells the country that It
is now the intentionof the Governmntto eek Independence
alone, then it must be understood tatthewhole Island will
want to know why that is so. I did not tals it upon myself
to go through the length and breadth of td island to say
what the position is. I held no public meetings and I attnt-
ded none out of my constituency. I attended three meetings
in my constituency, and I listened to whatpeople of varying
opinions had to say. I was very active myself in alerting
the people of my constituency as to te position, and it is
still my opinion that I am no traitor to the people because
I unswervingly feel that I have a great preference for
Independence within a Federation. The mere fact that the
idea of Independence withinorwithoutaFederationwas put .
forward intheManifestoofdtGovernmntParty, the me
fact that the exercise of the Federaldiscussions was going
on for three and one half years and that two Ministers of
Government have resigned the Island must take te of
that and begin to ask why did these things hppen. These
things are of some moment. These Ministers have held pub
lic meetings, and the mere fact that the Chief Minister of
St. Lucia is reported tohaveentered conversations with a
man who was thePersonalAidetotheHon. Premier this
is no laughing matter. We have a manof te calibre of Mr.
Ward who is an Ex-Chief Justices he is a man who would
be respected anywhere in the West Indies. He is also the
Ex-Speaker of the former Federal House of Representa-
tives, He is therefore, no fledgelingor self-seker. There-
fore, Isaytoday, Ihavetobevery candid and I must analyse
very carefully all that I have heard from Speakers on the
Government side.
The mere fact that te Manifesto of the Government
Party said that it wanted one thing or th other, and since
it is a Government which had committed itself to these
Federal exercises for such a length of time, we have
remained in the dark. Something went wrong. I am asked
to vote for an alternative, I am expected to vaoe for it,
and I am being dubbed as a traitor to Barbados if I do not
vote for it. I am dubbed asaman who has no aspirations if
I do not vote for that alternative. I would never ascribe
to any of them on the other side any improper motives.
They see now that there is a united Opposition, and there-
fore they are trying to pick ittopieces b bit. They are
attacking the Conservative Party and tey hold It up to
ridicule. On an occasion like this when I se people who
are taking that stand, who are attacking that party, I say
that when you have an argument you do not have to begin
with the Hon. Leader of th Opposition, the hon. Junior
member for the City and te heo. Junior member for
Christ Church and say what they am uts.a-s this Reso-
lution. You want to side-track somethn, and we say that


there is no coming back on the side track. There is no
vilification cf the unfortunate brother.

Yesterday when the Hon. Minister for Trade said that
the people of St. Lucia have showed their apathy and dis-
regard for wanting Federation and they would refuse to buy
Barbados sugar, the Ex-Minister of Trade and Industry, the
hon. senior member for St. Philip, the hon. member on
my left, got up and said that the position was that they had
been offered sugar at a price cheaper than that of Barbados.
When responsible people accuse others of misleading the
House and make such statements, they should be refuted
instantly by one who holds the portfolio which that Minister
held.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: On a point of order. I hate
to interrupt the hon. member, but he has misquoted me.
He said that the people of St. Lucia in apathy to this Fed-
eration have refused to buy Barbados sugar. I said that
- while the people were negotiating for a federation with
Barbados -- and I was making out a case that Independence
for Barbados would not reduce the trade for Barbados with
these territories. I said that when Trinidad went indepen-
dent, the same island of St. Lucia, whichwas then discuss-
ing Federation with Barbados refused to buy Barbados sugar
and wanted sugar from elsewhere.
5.50 p.m.

If he wants to quote me, let him quote me correctly.

Mr. HtUBANDS: Mr. Deputy Speaker, the hon. mem-
ber has not contradicted anything that I said; so I will
proceed. Our difference on this Independence question is
greatly influenced by the manner of approach by this Gov-
ernment to Independence. We do not consider it to be the
normal manner of approach. As I said earlier, we have
witnessed the steady growth and improvement of our Con-
stitution. Anyone knows that we have as full a measure of
Internal self-government that easily qualifies us for In-
dependence. The latest addition to the Constitution by the
letters Patent came into effect during the regime of the
present Government. We are very independent today, but
we do not appoint our own Governor. Apart from the Pre-
amble which mentioned the failure of the holding together
of many federations -- and that was of course put in pur-
posely the Resolution reads:

"BE IT THEREFORE RESOLVED that this House
Request Her Majesty's Principal Secretary of State for the
Colonies to convene, at the earliest opportunity, a Con-
ference to arrange the constitutional, financial, defence
and other details incidental to, and arising from, the as-
sumption, by the People of Barbados, of Sovereign Nation-
hood within the Commonwealth in 1966."

The Hon. Premier asked if Trinidad went tothe people
by means of a Referendum. I do not think the need arose
for that, but definitely the Colonial Office knows by now that
on. this question of Independence alone for Barbados there
is a great division not only among the people, but among
the elected representatives of the people in this House of
Assembly. Normally, the Hon. Premier would have con-
sulted with members of the Official Opposition and even
with members of other Opposition Parties, but nothing of
the kind has been done. Somementionwas made by the Hon.
Premier on Tuesday last that immediately after some
meeting at Sherbourne he consulted the Hon. Leaderof the
Opposition, but he did not tell the House on what. The
Leader of the Opposition has never let it be known that he
has ever entered any consultation vis-a-vis Barbados going
it alone, nor has the Leader of the Barbados Labour Party
nor any other member of the Opposition; so I think that
this one of the strongest of approaches to the assumption
of nationhood within the history of Colonies. Isay that quite
openly. IseetheHon. Premier is not in his place. If he were
here, he would have the chance of replying to me when he
has his turn to reply.

Mr. Deputy Speaker,it looks as if these talks had been
S broken off, a White Paper whipped up overnight and pub-
lished, and of course a Resolution rushed down to this


1












House three months ago. I differ, Sir, in the manner of
approach to this subject. I do not believe that Barbados
going it alone means as much as if it went independent
within a Federation. I have heard responsible Ministers
of Government say that attempts have been made to bring
about a Federation on two occasions. That is the-sort of
talk that uninformed people spread about, but I do not ap-
preciate that sort of talk coming to me from responsible
Ministers of Government and at such a late hour. They
would have a lot of arguing to do to convince me that they
have Just understood that. How long ago were they acquainted
with these facts? How long ago have they seen that a fed-
eration is quite impossible? I have heard mention of the lack
of financial integrity of Ministers in the other islands. I
think they knew that before, As a matter of fact, I think that
that sort of behaviour in those islands is due to the fact that
their audit system is quite different from ours. If they had
a system of audit as we have been practising in Barbados for
many years now, I think the accusation of lack of financial
integrity could not be ascribed to a Minister. But that In
itself is not argument enough for me as to why we should
not further pursue a Federation.

When people say that we are arguing more for these
islands than we are for Barbados, I do not hold that view.
Every hon. member is rightly entitled to his own opinion,
and I think I am just as rightly entitled to mine. Itis just a
difference of opinion. He sees it one way and I see it
another way, and I do not think he would easily convince
me that I am wrong, because I have heard nothing but ac-
cusations.. You will remember that I am not as informed as
he is, and, maybe, he shouts and rants, and thinks this is
an argument, whereas it is not an argument. It is just a
loud-mouthed statement based on I do not know what. I do
not ascribe impure and improper motives to hon. mem-
bers of this Chamber, not even outside.

So much has been said that is irrelevant, Mr. Deputy
Speaker, that it is very difficult to reply to the speech made
by the Hon. Premier, I was at pains to take notes at times,
but Ihave been actually disgusted and would give up, andthen
I would jot down something, but it was nothing to do with
independence. I was waiting to see how he would be able to
convince me that I should vote for this Resolution, but he
has not done so.
6,00 p.m.

He thinks that it is a very entertaining speech. Any
way, you sat and heard that it is not a question of emotion.

Finally, I say that there are some- things which you
cannot disregard. When we were thinking of Federation, we
knew that money mattered. We were told that the sum of
$7 million was needed for grants-in-aid to the lesser is-
lands. We were told that the moment we were responsible
for them $7 million would be needed. The British Govern-
ment did not commit itself to any figure. We knew that,
because we read certain reports that the United Kingdom
Government would not make up its mind.

Surely, Sir, we regret that, but I do not think that was
the failure of the Federal exercise. That does not impress
us that that was the failure of the Federation. The difficulty
is with one of the islands, or even some; but sooner or
later, sheer commonsense would drive these islands tow
gether. Sheer necessity would cause them to do sol and if
we do not make ourselves more viable as a big wealthy
brother with the industries which we have in Barbados,
we would have to look for markets as soon as possible, and
Jamaica would have to look further afield.

The Hon. Premier has said that since Trinidad has
gone independent, its trade with the Eastern Caribbean has
increased. Now, Mr. Deputy Speaker, when you make a
statement like that, you have to be very careful. That state-
ment does not convince any intelligent people. Some people
are always in good shape to make a speech. Some times,
they have a gullible audience. Here it is not so.

I would say this. Jamaica is independent, Trinidad is
independent, and Barbados proposes to be independent. Let


us say that within the next five years Antigua, St. Lucia,
Dominica, Grenada and St. Vincent become independent.
Now, 'this is what t.cores.;to.. Letus say that Barbados
goes-independent,-o or -even before Barbados goes indepen-
dent that there is an industry which formerly used to ex-
port to Barbados that is to say that the producer in Trini-
dad formerly exported his goods to Barbados. Barbados may
get a similar industry. .The producer in Barbados of the
similar product may seek Government's protection, and as
a -result the tariff goes up-n4mrespect of the goods coming
to Barbados. The-producer oftosegoods inTrinidad comes
here. and set up:thelIndustry. There you have it. Less em-
ployment for the people:of Trinidad because the industry
is set up here. Now, the, same thingcan be in the reverse.
If the producer from Trinidad comes here and divides the
business, the manufacturing plant here manufactures at a
loss. The hon. member said that it is not politicians who
make trade. It is the investor, and the investor always
seekss to. enjoy the-best political climate he can get for
.his products. That is to his,-advantage. When you have all
this fragmentation and bits and bits,-I think it is not true
to say-that the peopleofBarbidos aregoing to get the best.
Political independence isot all. Youhave to see both sides.

I, have heard remarksto the effect that if we do not
get Independence in 1966, we would never get it; it is now
or never. I make no apology for saying this. Those who
said that they receive a mandate from thepeople, I wonder
if they are afraid to go back to the people. I say they are.
8.10 p.m. .

Beinghere pdto night, or the day after, is not the end.
I am not one pf those who will refuse to fight because I
think the odds are against me. I have watched the fluctua-
tipns andI bav had nducements, but I wi U remain in one
way,. Nobody ca~ -i.ay that I ar a mercenary. I wil get on
iny campaigning.platform in St. Peter and say this when
the time arrives, Do you think you could begin to influence
people and begin to curse them, vilify then and tell them
how black they are? I have never seen such bad happenings
displayed on a matteronsuchanimportantoccasion I have
never seen sucihhappentigs displayed on such an important
matt~r. It is not a question of personalities; we are not
ganging up to fightgainstthis Resolutionbecause the Hon.
So-and-So has brought it up, If theysaythat, then Hansard
will give them the lie. We are not a number of people who
have ganged up because a member of that Party has brought
forward thisRepolution.

I do not agree with the hon. member when he says that
hs is Barbados, and te SecretaryofOtate for the Colonies
cannot do tiis or that, ta thhe Secretary of State for the
Colonies cannot ask them to do this or that. I do not agree
that these things cannot apply to them. We have Letters
Patent' ut we have one comprehensive Constitution. The
Hon. Premier has said that he was much in favour of a
written Constitution.. As armatter of fact, I have always
thought tt h a Constitution which included conventions and,
'f course, Statute Laws and Letters Patent was quite good
enough; but to tell the honest truth, I am fearful and I
would like certain freedoms guaranteed in any Constitution
forb Barbados. I am saying that in Parliament and it is not
intended to be offensive. Thereis freedom ofspeech, free-
dom of association, freedom against forcibly entry into
homes and many other freedoms which wehaveenjoyed for
years, and years;. Iwonl4 like to be absolutely sure that
these freedoms wlltcontlnue.

It: i only yesterday. that I had my thoughts shattered
in. this.Chamber, The Hon. Minister of Trade and Industry
tol4 this Chamber that the horjunmiormember for the City
was sleeping in the House and tberewere some exchanges.
Soon after tthattHon. Premier rose to his feet and said
that it was his intention to introduce a motion to bring
about dthiesuspension of the. hon. junior member for the
City. Believe you nmeaSir, if the Hon. Premier had the
power to do, so, he would .ave done it. The hon. member
has .been bluffing his zway. According to the Standing Or-
ders of the House, he could not make a motion for the
suspension of the hon.-,unior.member for the City just
like that. I believe' I solemnly believe that the Hon.












Premier regretted that he did not have the power instantly
to make that motion so as to have that hon. member sus-
pended. That is a serious pointer for me and I would not
like my address to conclude without mentioning it, I fear
no man. Let nobody go on with the tide. Why do you con-
stantly tell us about William Joyce and treason and that
he did not do this and he did not do that? Do you think that
I, as a self-respecting Barbadian, would entrust my des-
tiny and that of the people to go on these threats?

If I had come to vote for this Resolution yesterday,
after seeing that demonstration of the hon. member, I
would have thought of changing my mind, A lot of things
have happened in the 20th century which I believe people
thought could never happen. I will not deceive myself that
these things cannot happen in Barbados, that they will not
happen really. As diminutive as I am, I will fight until
the sun goes down. (MR. WALCOTT): Man, you will cry;
you cried already.). A man like me might have to cry
when he sees that he cannot defend himself. That is not
crying on the surface. The Hon. Premier has been seen
to cry. Bigger men than you and Ihave cried, Impermeable
characters who have beenhurt tothe core may not be able
to cry, but a person like me might cry.
6.20 p.m,

Unrelenting people do not cry and you can ask the
police, (MR. WALCOTT: Speakers do not cryl) I never
cried for that. It was the unfairness behind it, I was asked
recently and refused. You talk about intrigue, but I have
seen a lot of intrigue, and I talk what I know.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, to continue, so much has been
said that was intended just to bluff us into voting for this
Resolution, that it has left us removed. We come to put
our own viewpoints. We thought we would have heard ar-
guments being put forward; but we have heard vilification
of Parties, degradation of our friends in the other islands
and similarly in this Place. These will not in any way in-
fluence our decisions. It is inevitable that we will become
independent, but I want in no uncertain manner to know
that all the freedoms that we have been enjoying are guar-
anteed and will be retained; but I would prefer to be in a
Federation that has a chance of developing the Caribbean
area, that has a chance of benefitting all the peoples of the
Eastern Caribbean islands, and very consequentially the
people of Barbados. Federation is now a one-way street
as some people suppose.

The Hon. Premier went out of his way and has written
in paragraphs 78, 79 and 80 of the White Paper how tenu-
ously certain Federations are held together, how there
have been attempts of secession in others; but the federa-
tion of Nigeria has held together one of the most viable
countries in the world. The United States of America is a
great Federation of States; they hold together. In a Fed-
eration of the Eastern Caribbean we could not have all the
raw materials to be fully industrialized; but we have a lot
that, if developed, would redound to the benefit of all the
islands.

Now we are seeking a trade pact with British Guiana,
and Antigua is coming in. From time to time that pact may
extend to others. As no one can see into the future, within
the next ten years everyone of these islands might be in-
dependent. The breaking up of the Federation has put them
back to the position that they have to come back to. Had
the federation succeeded, they would have begun with an
independent status. Let us not lose sight of that. If the
Federation talks had proceeded amicably till it reached
some practical result, on the declaration of Independence
the whole area would have been independent. As a matter
of fact, a Federation has to be that. You cannot federate
with somebody of inferior status. That is why I think the
other Federations in some measure could not hold. The
breaking up of the Regional Talks put back the clock for
the islands. If these talks had proceeded smoothly, they
would be at the end of these talks each and everyone of
them an independent state. As it is, it is still going to take
some time to become independent if they want to be. We
know the conditions now. It is not as easy as some people


were telling us; It is no simple nodding of the head as they
have said. There must be a two-thirds majority in the
lower Chamber and a majority in the upper Chamber and
a majority by a referendum.

I am hoping that we are not rushed into this business
unless we Barbadians know that these guarantees of free-
dom are present, because I have seen some funny things
happening. I have seen people threatened, andthatis a bad
thing, especially since it has been demonstrated during this
debate on Independence. Some people so lose their balance
of reason that they show their true self on so slight pro-
vocation, that it could not be truly said that they are the
people who should have the destiny of these things in their
hands at such a critical time. I am very glad that these
things have been manifested, especially during this debate.
It gives me a little more grist for my mill,and nobody
should attempt to deny methe right of saying that there is
absolutely nothing wrong in having the people judge for them-
selves. Are you afraid to return to those whom you say gave
you a mandate? Is there anyreasonwhywe should be afraid
to go back to the electorate? I do not think that it can truly
be said that the Constitution of Jamaica, when they went with
a referendum, was inferior to that of Barbados.
6.30 p.m.

It is not a fair comparisonto mentonTrinldad because
I do not thinkthre was a differencein parts on this ques-
tion. In Barbados there is a difference ofo pinion on this
matter, and we inte Opposition, justlikethose of the Gov-
ernment, are elected members. That is a fact which can-
not be denied. As a matter of fact, at this stage, it would
be a controversial political issue. It could notbe done with-
out a referendum, without any involvement or a change in
Barbados as far as the Government is concerned. As it is
now, It is such a divided issue that I think the Government
Party well knows that the electorate may decide not what
they would want them to decide; therefore, I say that they
have not the confidence whichtheywould makeyou believe.

You say that we are traitors to the people. Who are
the people? Do you think that the forty hirelings whom you
have outside there are the people? They are not the people
at all. They are a very small fraction of the people. Some
people think that they are the people. They are not the peo-
ple all over this country, and thepeople all over this coun-
try are not coming out of their homes to be molested or to
be insulted by paid hirelings.

If this debate had been broadcast to the country, the
people would hear what the representatives here are saying.
They would hear the voice of every speaker on this con-
troversial issue here. I sayagain,Mr. DeputySpeaker, that
some paid hirelings outside are not the electorate. I have
had my applause and I have had the jeers too of the crowd
outside. It does not matter to meinthat nobody can depend
on that sort of thing. It is one way today and one way to-
morrow. It is just like politicians. They give praise to
some politicians today and tomorrow they vilify them. I
have heard that the Hon. Premier actually wiped the floor
with one of them. I have heard that. I have sat across the
Chamber and saw people moving around with such antics
as their mouths puffed up. This is because they are empty.

A lot has been said in here today some of it said
very casually but their efforts have been wasted. Things
have been tossed across the Chamber on this side very
cleverly to divide this united Opposition. I know that when
hon. members on this side address the Deputy Speaker
today that there would be silence. However, we do not de-
pend on those antics; what we say we mean. We do not say
a thing for applause. We can truly say that we are in a
minority now. We are glad to be in the minority because
we believe in what we are doing. We do not hope to benefit
from what you are doing. We do our respective jobs and
attend to our political chores, if allowed, Mr. Deputy
Speaker. Nothing of the glamour we expect to have. Who
gets it, gets it. We prefer to mean what we say, and the
people know it: and we know that the people are not going
to call us traitors because we say what we mean on this
occasion.


I











Some people dare to think that we should not come into
this Assembly and vote against this Resolution. We have
come here and we are prepared to take this bold and open
stand with not even the wind blowing behind us. We are in
the minority, not in the scene of all things. You can look
around and see that when the vote is taken, we would be
among those who would be in the minority. I am even anti-
cipating that. However, we shall maintain the stand which
we have taken and we are prepared like any other hon.
member sitting elsewhere in the Chamber to go back to the
people.

You can easilywhip up emotional feelings even that.
But that is not the right thing. Sir, you know that for years
and years, what has kept the practicalworkof the Federa-
tion in action is the possibility of getting these countries
viable. I will not mention Puerto Rico on this occasion. I
do not think that we are with Puerto Rico in this context,
but I say this. We say that pursuing Independence within
a federation is better for us all. It is better for us not only
as individual states of the West Indies, but even as far as
economic viability is concerned, better living conditions
would be obtainable eventually.

The West Indians in England and in the United States
of America look to Barbados and to the several other islands
from which they come, hoping for light and hoping that some
day they will got together. The people in the United States
of America are affected by all the pettifogging antics which
we are doing in this Island; so it is not only Barbadians,
St. Lucians, Grenadians, Dominicans, and the people living
in Montserrat and the other islands. Those abroad are also
affected. Are we going to close the door to Federation?
6.40 p.m.

Are you going to close the door to them now? Must we
close the door to them now? When we go to Independence
alone, do not let us deceive ourselves, because that is ac-
tually closing the door. Whether we realise it or not, it
will be a very difficult job. Twenty-five years from now
there will be a yearning and astrongdesire for Federation
again. People like the ideaoffederating. Itake a long dis-
tance view of the matter and I am looking forward to the
time when there will be no more but West Indians on the
scene. I am surprised at the one-sidedness of approach to
this matter. May I call It the selfishness of approach in
1966? Because one Federation was broken up we do not
know why the second Federation was broken up. I do not
want to ascribe any improper motives to the Minister
because the Government or the Delegation which repre-
sented Barbadians at the Regional Council of Ministers -
well, there is a lack of informations and even the inter-
pretation of what took place has not impressed me because
along with it there was too much personal attack, not only
on personalities, but there was the condemnation of per-
sonalities and people in Parliament, on such an important
matter.

The biggest okeofallisthattheyexpected to influence
the Opposition. Sir, the entire thing is unique nobody has
gone into Independence likethis, This is a question of U.D.L
and I do not think that Barbados willget away with it. This
will be a horse of another colour altogether. We have al-
ready expressed our feelings on this matter in Rhodesia.
This is the West Indies and we have a representative form
of Government beyond that which obtains as far as the
franchise in Southern Rhodesia is concerned. This whole
bombastic talk is not going to go down very well every-
where; as a matter of fact, it cannot go down well every-
where. I cannot even make an impressionon certain people
in this Island. When you have to use vilification and make
certain remarks in your presentation of any matter, you
never have a good case. Let me say this: I compliment
those hon. members who have spoken in favour of this question.
(A MEMBER: You have missed the bus). Our numbers are
not large enough to win. Isincerelybelievethat in a matter
of this sort, this is the last stage, this is the topmost round
of the ladder. This Resolution says that we can assume this
Independence, but, on this matter, the presentation does not
convince me.


This is not doing either my country or the people of
the area any good, particularly at this time, to be in a
state of Independence. There is so much which is unsav-
oury which has happened that we should show some tolera-
tion in this matter. We have had the injection of the race
question entering into this matter, but how does the race
question come into this matter? For these cheap things to
be heard outside and to enjoy the confidence of 30 or more
hirelings will not do us any good.
6.50 p.m.

Bringing in the race question in this debate is serving
this debate no good. I deplore it. It s a cheap ruse and has
not gone down well. This is 1966 and not 1937 or 1939. That
sort of presentation might have had some effect and in-
fluence many years ago, but not now. Today we have a much
more intelligent electorate; we have extended the age of
franchise down to eighteen years, and in Barbados I think
information flows reasonably well to all sections of the
community, information about what is going oninthe coun-
try politically and otherwise. We have a Radio Station,
a Television Station and daily newspapers, and all eighteen
year olds are well informed; so, as a matter of fact, the
community is quite self-sufficient, and nobody has to go
after associating with any group.

The situation of bringing up this question so suddenly
would appeal to the forty hirelings in the yard who really
give us trouble when they make their applause and annoy
this Chamber. I think the Government would have done
better if they had put the loudspeakers in places where we
could do our work with better comfort, but they are put
there for a reason, a poor and shoddy reason. It means
nothing to this country and less to themselves.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, we, as much as anyhon. member
on that side of the House, proud of the advances we have
had in our Constitution, would enjoy a state of Independence
in a Federation with far greater relishthangoing it alone.
We think that Barbados would have more to get. Some
people look at this thing from one side. When they tell us
in one breath that you cannot look at money, and in another
breath talk about $7 million in Grant-in-aid and only $3
million in trade, what are they looking at? They are not
even logical to the end. It is half an argument- which is
worse than no argument at all. You are either looking at
money or you are not looking at money. I do not think
that in the long run the hon. member is really a good
economist, because Barbados will have to find markets
for any goods we manufacture here.

I heard an hon. member say that the attitude of other
West Indians, notably St. Lucians, has been changing to-
wards Barbadians.

That is true, Mr. Deputy Speaker; but again it is a
half truth. The question is how long this has been happen-
ing. This has become so since we talked about going in-
dependent alone. Two druggists representingleadingfirms
in Barbados have told their friends that they go down
the islands advertising goods for business houses in Bar-
bados, and before this talk about Barbados going it alone
they had an entry to the best homes in St. Lucia, Dominica
and Grenada. It is not so now. If this hostility arises on
the social side, it is not a good sign of things to come.
You talk about Malta with 95 square miles. That is of
little strategic value; but we are an agricultural commun-
ity. You talk about Palestine with an artificial economy
prompted by American millionaires turning a desert, liter-
ally speaking, into a land metaphorically flowing with milk
and honey. That is no comparison. We are not people with-
out experience and knowledge of these matters.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, the arguments that have been
adduced by those who are backing this Resolution serve
no useful purpose. No arguments have been given, but
there has been a lot of cursing and side talk. Therefore
my personal stand in this matter remains the same, and
I am prepared, whenever the amendment comes up for
voting, to throw my vote with that amendment, because I


~












am very jealous of the liberties which I have inherited,
and I do not want any elements that are dictatorial, honest
or otherwise, to rear their ugly heads in Barbados, be-
cause I will offer my life in defence of what I know, and I
do not have very long to live now. That is why I am here
on this scene now. There will be no silent vote for me.
7.00 p.m.

Let me express what Ihavetosayin as calm and cool
a manner as possible. I am not interpreting any statement
made by hon. members on that side of the House, nor am
I twisting anything they have to say; but there are one or
two things that I cannot help saying to them. I would not
like to see a Constitution that does nothave specific things
enshrined therein. The things that we are alreadyenjoying
and have already would have to be specifically mentioned.

Sir, the suggestion has been intimated to me that I
should move the suspension of the sitting now,

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: The question for the hon. member
to answer is: if he thinks he may finish in the next twenty
minutes he may go on and finish.

MR. HUSBANDS: My impression was that there would
be a suspension at this time.

HON. J. C. TUDOR: If the hon. member thinks he is
nearly finished, he may conclude his speech.

Mr. HUSBANDS: I am going to take more than fifteen
minutes.

HON. J. C. TUDOR: Well, then, move the suspension
of the sitting.

Mr. HUSBANDS: I beg to move that this sitting be
now suspended for forty-five minutes.
Mr. CRAWFORD: I beg to second that.
The question was put and resolved in the affirmative and
ilr. DEPUTY SPEAKER suspended the sitting accordingly.

On resumption,
HON. G. G. FERGUSSON: Mr. Speaker, there is no
quorum and I ask that you instruct that the bell be rung,

MR. SPEAKER: I am gratefultoyoufor reminding me.
Mr. Clerk, let the bell be rung.
The Bell was rung and a quorum obtained.

Mr. SPEAKER: When the sitting was suspended, Iwas
advised that the hon. junior member for St. Peter was
addressing the Chamber.

Mr. HUSBANDS: Mr. Speaker, one statement which
was made by the Hon. Premier during the course of his ad-
dress has set me wondering. If I can quote it verbatim,
he mentioned that we would have to evolve our own form
of Constitution. I think I have interpreted the remarks of
the Hon. Premier correctly.

I think that such a remark coming from him would
provoke much interest.

In the course of his remarks he mentioned constitu-
tional methods, and he said that people look with pleasure
to the day when circumstances prevailed in the community
for which they had the courage to offer new patterns. It is
common practise for most people who believe in political
science regarding constitutions usually to take a draft of
the particular thing that they are providing for from many
learned students in political science and political philos-
ophy, and they do the necessary research so as to enable
them to understand the interpret the Constitution; but when
the Hon. Premier says that we in the West Indies have to
evolve our own Constitution, I wonder whatnewprovisions


or what lack of provisions he would have inserted into the
Constitution to be proposed for Barbados as soon as it be-
comes independent.

You see, Sir, when these remarks are made and they
reach the ears of those who will examine them, they would
want to try to find out what the speaker is driving at. When
the Hon Premier says that we are trying to develop our
own form of Constitution, does he mean that we are to ig-
nore the whole stock of wording now, and try some new
experiment that may be understood and appreciated by
him but probably shock those who know the existing forms
and the democratic form of a Constitution?

These remarks are important. Hon members mayjust
push them aside and may think little or nothing of them,
but I am a curious man; thereforeIthink the Hon. Premier
owes it to us to give us some light as to what he has in
mind, when he said that we have come to the stage in 1966
where we can forget all the stock of learned people in con-
stitutional making and now develop our own form.
8.00 p.m.

Mr. SPEAKER: I would remind the hon. member that
he should be addressing only the Chair.

Mr. HUSBANDS: Mr. Speaker, someone was address-
ing me in fairly loud asides, but he is in good spirits. I
do not think you could be sorry for that. A remark made
by the hon. member during the course of his speech has
invoked my humour, there is much we had to know that
could be a guide. Naturally, I do not think that those people
who have the ability to examine Constitutions have ever
come across a perfect Constitution; but if it is a question of
our ignoring all the work which has been done by able
men like Ivor Jennings, I think we should not cast them
entirely aside. That is what gets me very sceptical as
to what provisions or lack of provisions we have been
accustomed to see enshrined in democratic principles.
We are not prepared to see one iota of the existing rights
to which we are accustomed fallfromus. We have minority
communities in certain parts oftheworld today, commun-
ities which are now fighting hard for civil liberties; they
are risking their lives for these principles and we, in this
island of Barbados, are very fortunate in that we have
inherited a Constitution which I would not be able to say
was made for people who look like me, but nevertheless
people who look like me have been privileged to improve
upon it in decade after decade.

We are in a position in which we can know what we
have; we are very sceptical when pronouncements like
these are made and when there is no further elucidation
of them given to us, I think it is in duty bound for the Hon.
Premier to tell us exactly what he means when he inserts
such a statement as that which he has inserted in his ad-
dress. I am not ascribing to him in his absence any im-
.propert motives. I will never do that. I do hope that when
he returns to this Hon. Chamber and any one of the mem-
bers of the Government Party reports to him what was
said vis-a-vis the remark which I have drawn to their at-
tention, I will be fairly represented. It is rather alarming
to hear an hon. member who is trained in the law and who
must have more than a nodding acquaintance with constitu-
tional matters, say that we must develop a new form of
Constitution. That remark might have beenwell intentioned
but there is already to hand a stock of knowledge which
would-be Constitution makers have seldom ignored and
which has already been put in.

TheHon. Premier was veryadamantwhenhe told the
House that there will not be any modificationof these pro-
posals. He said that he could not accept any amendment to
them, or words to that effect. He does not think it neces-
sary for him to go to the country with any referendum. I
do not think that that stand of his at the moment is one
which I very well appreciate. I quite agree with the Pre-
mier as fas as the position of the Barbados Delegation at
the Regional Council of Ministers attended bythe Govern-
ment Ministers is concerned, I have no quarrel with that.
In that connection, the Premier said that he has the back-












ing of people like Sir Arthur Lewis:. he says that when he
finds himself in good water. On the other hand, when it
comes to take a country which has reached this stage of
political development into Independence, I maintain that
there should have been some sort of consultation with
members of the opposing Party. Since that has not been
the case, I do not understand the Premier in his sticking
out and saying that there is not going to be any modifica-
tion, that there will not be any coming from his proposals.
8.10 p.m.

When we consider what has preceded this Resolution,
all the activity relating to the laying on the Table of this
House of the White Paper and these new constitutional pro-
posals for Barbados, we can see that the Hon. Premier
is going to remain firm in not accepting the amendment.

The Hon. Premier kept back for the last repeatedly
made mention of a despatch from Her Majesty's Principal
Secretary of State. He toyed with this document in his
hands, and we were anxious to hear its contents.He built
up big expectations on it, referred to it, talked around it
and then digressed on one matter and on to another, and
then finally he read the despatch to us, and allI could make
from that dispatch was that it was New Year's greetings.
I was not impressed at all. As he toyed with it, and talked
about it, and referred to it, and then made reference to it
and came back to it, and finally read it,the substance was
New Year's greetings. Well that is toying with a serious
debate and a very historical debate. We got nothing from
it. The Hon. Premier made much of the United Kingdom's
financial aid, and I do not know if it was his opinion or
whether he read from any particular despatch, but he said
that the British Government was no longer interested in a
Federation of these islands.

I think in the Preamble to the new proposals for
the Eastern Caribbean Islands just released, it struck
me as queer for the Hon. Premier to make reference to the
British Government not being interested in a Federation
of the Eight, when, if I remember correctly, in the Preamble
to the new constitutional proposals for the Caribbean
Islands, that Preamble begins with words to the effect that
a Union of the Islands is still regarded as the best possible
solution to their ills politically and otherwise.

Mr. WALCOTT:| On a point of order, Mr. Speaker,
do you think it is in order that those in the House should
hear the hon. member audibly? Ido not know if the mumblings
of the hon. member are meant for himself or for the Cham-
ber, because those in the Chamber cannot yet comprehend
anything he has said since he began to make his speech.
(Cheers)

Mr. SPEAKER: There is a difference between hearing
and comprehending. As for being audible, it is up to the
hon. member who is speaking, provided the apparatus is
working properly. As to comprehending, that is a matter
for those who are listening whether they can understand.

Mr. HUSBANDS: Some hon. members would like
to have all the say. When they sit, they regret others have
to get up: but I am standing and I will continue to speak.
Throughout the length and breadth of the Premier's speech,
be described himself as an angry man. I do not see why the
Premier of Barbados brings down for discussion new propo-
sals for an independent Constitution for Barbados should be an
angry man. There is nothing to be angry about. None of us in
the Opposition manifested anger.

Mr. Speaker, if there is any feed-back in this House, I
understand that there is in the precincts of this House, a tape
recorder working constantly, and that maybe responsible for
my not being heard. It has been secretly installed which
hints at a Police State in the future; and if it is removed, I
think I would be heard without difficultywithinthis Chamber.
Let somebody now answer. Already we have the foreboding
of a Police State where a tape recorder lies within the
precincts of this Chamber. It should be removed.


Mr. WALCOTT: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order,
apart from the time wasting exercise that we are experienc-


'1*


ing from the hon. member, he has made a very strange state-
ment, and one of his new-found media is saying 'hear, hear!'
This is a charge for which you are responsible. He is
charging you with having something secretly installed in here.
You are not incapable of interpreting that as Speaker in
Charge of this Chamber; and if it is secretly installed in
here, he is making the insinuation that something is in the
Chamber for which you are responsible which is not per-
mitting him to be heard audibly,

Mr. SPEAKER: I do not accept any such insinuation, nor
am I responsible for anything at this time except to ensure
observance of Standing Orders in this Chamber whilst I am
presiding. I have no knowledge of anytape recorder alleged-
ly installed within the precincts of, or in, this Chamber.
8.20 p.m.

Mr. HUSBANDS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, I do not,
I shall not, and I will not ascribe to you any responsi-
bility for the secret installation of any device that causes
me to be heard improperly on this occasion. I learned
of the installation of such a device not more than fifteen
minutes ago, and it remains in its hidden position. Many
people have not the wherewithal; therefore, they have to
make some sort of show.

Mr. Speaker, I have on this occasion expressed my
views to the distress of those who would not want to hear
me at all; but I am mindful of my duty, not only to my
constituency in the parish of St. Peter but to the electors
of the Island of Barbados. Sir, when the time has rolled
on I will stand among those who do not have to be offered
any promises, among those who may not be deemed mer-
cenaries, among those who may not be deemed traitors,
among those who may not be called self-seeking; but I
will be content with whatever is made law after that.

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, it is said and it is a fact
that empty vessels keep the most noise. Now, Sir, with
such a momentous occasion, with such a Resolutionof this
nature I feel that it is my bounden duty to represent the
people of Barbados.

I was asked by a few of my constituents the reason of
Barbados going into Independence alone, and I had to give
the reply that as soon as Ihad listened to the hon. introducer
of the Resolution I would be able to tell everyone the meaning
if they did not hear it before. But, Sir, it has not been done
because the hon. introducer of the Resolution treated us
to a whole day, or very nearly a whole day, with his way
of talking in his own way, and Iwill have to read his speech;
but up to now he has not let this Honourable House know the
real meaning of Barbados going it alone or the meaning of
Independence. He has not touched on the Resolution at all:
therefore everyone would still have to guess because I am
sure that the people of this country did not call on the
Government and asked them into Independence.

The Government is trying and making every effort to take
the country into Independence, and it is the Government's
duty to prove the caseto the people and to let them know what
is the meaning of Independence and what to expect. What is
the meaning to it?Is it going to relieve them from any kind
of sufferings, financially or otherwise? Havetheytopay
more for it or less? Let them know something; they will be
able to make up their minds; and if in case a shock is
expected, they will be able to cushion themselves before
it takes place.

What has the Hon. Introducer of the Resolution told us?
He has told us some of everything which, he felt, could
make out his case. But Your Honour is a lawyer, and a
good one too; therefore, you are aware that the longer the
case takes, the weaker it is. When you hear one take so
long on a case, it is weak: but when a lawyer gets up and
says ten or fifteen words and finishes,the case is won and
the defendant is acquitted. That is because he had a
case to make out for the defendant.But whenhehasto drift
all around and around, it shows thatheis looking for
somewhere to make out a case. I believe that is what
happened to the Hon. Introducer of this Resolution.












Now, Sir, you know that this House went into recess for
the Christmas holidays, and we were not to return until
next Tuesday, which is supposed to be the eleventh of this
month. But I received a notice calling for this Special
Meeting before that time for the purpose of discussing
this Resolution.
8.30 p.m.

The hon. Introducer did not tell us the reasons for call-
ing us out before the time. Surely he is not supposed to tell
us: but out of courtesy he should have said what are his rea-
sons for so doing, since this House was adjourned until the
llth of this month. I do not know his reasons for not stating
the urgency of the case. I admit that if you have an urgent
case you should, or can, call us out two weeks before the
time; but in relation to a Resolution which has been before
us for so long, and then you call us out before the time,
something must have happened that they have done so.

Now, Sir, we are changing the Constitution of this
colony. That is an important matter andthepeople of Bar-
bados should know the proceedings and hear for themselves
every word that their representatives have to say on this
matter. What do we find? It is only the people who live in
St. Michael that will be able to hear what their representa-
tives have to say by the installation of a loudspeaker out-
side in the yard; but surelythe people in the outlying districts,
the people in St. Andrew and St. John would like to hear. The
people in St. Lucy would like to hear what their represen-
tatives are saying just as the people inSt. Michael, and I think
that they should have been given the opportunity to hear the
debate, whether the contributions are worth listeningtoor
not. After all, I do not think that it is only some of the
members of this House who have been treated with this
discourtesy, but it is the electorate as a whole. That is
the meaning of authority and power. We are seeking to put
the power- or more power into the hands of one man
now than we have sand on the seashore. The introduction
of Independence for Barbados is giving power to one per-
son. I always say that I do not care who it. is; whether it is
my Government or your Government, we haveto be careful
in placing this amount of power into any one man's hand.
What is happening today all over the world is a serious
thing and that is what any of us will have to be thinking
seriously about. It is not the matter of Independence that I
am afraid of; it is the Constitution. It is what is going to be
written in the Constitution that we have to be very careful
about. Nothing was told us as to the Constitution. I know the
meaning of giving power to any one man; whether it be a
little man, a sane man or a madman, you have to be careful.

The hon.introducerofthisResolution,during the course
of his speech, said that nobody can tell him when he is to
hold an Election, that it is he, and he alone, who will say
when the Election is to be held. The 250,000 people in this
island have to listen to one mantohear when he is going to
hold an Election.

Hon. G. G. FERGEUSON: On a point of order. The hon.
junior member for St. Joseph has definitely misquoted
what the hon. introducer of this Resolution has said. What
the introducer of this Resolution said was that he and he
alone has the authority to say when an Election is to be held,
provided that it is held within the constitutional period al-
lowed for holding such an Election.

Mr. SMITH: Now, Sir, the hon. member has raised that
question, and he used the word "provided". I know that the
time for holding an election cannot be longer than the
statutory period. Suppose the hon. introducer wants the
period to be a longer one; it cannot be any longer so long
as the Constitution has not been changed. I am saying that
one man has told 250,000 people that he has the authority
to say when the Election is to be held. That is democracy;
that is the Constitution. I am also saying that I am afraid of
the Constitution after Independence, because I do not know
what will be written in the Constitution, and therefore I am
bound to be afraid of it. Youwillpardon me, Sir, for saying
that when I was coming in here just now I heard somebody
say: "We want Independence, but do notwant Barrow to get
it." Iam saying, Sir, that, whether itbe Barrow or Sparrow,


I am nothing to do with it. I am nothing to do with any of
them. I do not know who will be the Prime Minister when
this country goes into Independence, neither do I care.
8.40 p.m.

I am not against Independence because of one person,
because I am nothing to do with a person when it comes to
the people's business. I am thinking of those poor, honest,
hard-working people in the country who have to work
through the sun and rain for their honest living, and those
are the ones who would like to know what to expect from
a Resolution of this kind.

There are some people who have said that we do not
want Independence and that we always want to be begging.
That is not a nice remark for anyone to make. Nobody
would try to stop the progress of the people of Barbados,
but it is the duty of every hon, member in this House to
express his views. If hon. members on this side try to
state their views, it is the duty of the Government to con-
vince us if they see we are against the Resolution. The
Hon. Introducer of the Resolution seeking Independence
alone should convince us over here who would like Inde-
pendence within a Federation, and If his arguments are
sound, we have as much common sense on this side as to
see that we have the wrong end, but now that the right end
has been presented, we would accept it. Nothing of the
sort has happened. There has been for the whole day a lot
of abuse of members on this side, and there has been talk
about a blood bath and all sorts of threats.

Now, Sir, no Government is run properly on threats.
It is run on co-operation, and we are quite willing to co-
operate. The members on this side do not criticise every-
thing the Government brings down to this Chamber, because
when we feel they are right, they are right: but there are
times when we feel they are wrong. They are not always
wrong when we feel so, and it is their duty to convince us.
For the whole day attacks were levelled inthe right quarters,
because I believe, Sir, that this talk originated at a meeting
held somewhere in St. James some time lastyear, and the
originators were members of the Government, not mem-
bers of my Party. Those same members talked against
Barbados going it alone. They said that only a madman or a
fool would think about that. I have not heard one word said
about those members up to this moment, although they
have done just as much harm to the Resolution or to the
Party as anybody else. There is an old saying that when
your own dog bites you, you are well bitten. They want to
accuse us of biting them, but we were never their dogs and
never will be. They are too ashamed to tell the public that
it is their own people who have put them in this position.
They are not going to do that because they need the vote,
but the time is fast coming when you will hear who is who
in the Democratic Labour Party. There are members who
have attached their signatures to an amendment, and you can
see the signatures if they have not torn up the paper. Some
of the members are playing smart, and when you get a little
smart man, he is smart. He would not register his vote
against the Resolution, but his absence means "No".
8.50 p.m.

Now, Sir, if the Resolution was the right one and was in
the interest of Barbados, would it be so? Would the mem-
bers play back and if you ask what "play back" means, I
would say "dodge". Would the members of the D.L.P,
dodge if it were in the interest of the people?

This has a principle involved and I will die for a prin-
ciple. Now, Sir, let us assume that I am a member of a
Party. The Party proposes to do something. If I am not
in favour of it, I will register my protest, and I will tender
my resignation as a mark of protest. Now, here it is. You
had a man who was against the Resolutioneven up to a little
before Christmas time. Members from the other side up
to a little before Christmas Day were against the Resolu-
tion.

Mr. WALCOTT: Sir, I rise on a point of order. I am
sorry to interrupt the hon. member. The hon. member
says members were against the Resolution up to before












Christmas Day. Wr.t does the hon. member mean? We
were not in here on Christmas Day.

Mr. SPEAKER: I was not in here that day. This Reso-
lution was tabled some time in October of last year; so I
would suggest to the hon. junior member for St. Joseph
no: to single out any hon. member, but to stick to the Reso-
lution.

Mr. SMITH: I am speaking on the Resolution and I
was speaking about the principle also. If I said that hon,
members over on the other side up to Christmas Day were
against the Resolution, I would mean that the principle is
affected, -Sir. I am telling you that. If after Christmas
Day or during Christmas time: that nice liquor which is
flowing at Lower Collymore Rock or Upper Collymore Rock
caused men's mind to turn, I cannot be vexed nor can I
bind anyone. I heard it was even better than a first-class
liquor shop with every kind of liquor stocked; and, added
to that it was such that you could even go and serve your-
self. It might not be on account of the quality of the stuff,
but it might be what was put into the stuff,

Mr. SPEAKER: I can quite appreciate the temper of
the hon. member, especially at this time when we are still
early in the New Year, and the hon. member is yet thinking
of the spirit of Christmas. However, may I suggest that
the hon. member come now from that spirit of Christmas to
the spirit of the Resolution.

Mr. SMITH: Sir, I sat here inthis Chamber on Tuesday,
and the hon. introducer of the Resolution talked all over
and over and has not touched on the Resolution yet,

Mr. SPEAKER: Even if that be so, that is not any rea-
son why any hon. member should do the same thing.

Mr. SMITH: And now, Sir, because it is I, I have to
keep to the Resolution. I am doing my utmost to keep to the
Resolution.

Mr. SPEAKER: I hope the hon. member is not suggesting
that I have discriminated. That can never happen with me
in the Chair, nor can it occur with my colleague, the Hon.
Deputy Speaker.

Mr. SMITH: I was making the point wherein the speech
of the hon. introducer, he said that he is an angry man.
Then today the Hon. Minister of Trade has tried to make
us look at the poor St. Lucian workers as the worst in the
world.

Hon, A. DaC. EDWARDS: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a
point of order. In my address today I never referred to
St. Lucian workers. You would not see inmy entire address
any mention made by me of St. Lucian workers.

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, the Hon. Minister began by
saying: "the foreigners". I made my notes. He began by
asking, if you want to know these St. Lucians, go up in
Nelson Street. He also talked of one Castries. I would like
to know where is Castries, St. Lucians live in Castries. He
also went on to say that they work for less pay than Bar-
badian workers. He also said that these people are born
from a woman. All of us are born from a woman. They
are the same living human beings as Barbadians. They are
honest people. I would show you the reason why they are
honest. If a person wants something to do, and he feels
within himself that there is a job yonder for ten dollars a
week, and by saying that he would do it for eight dollars a
week that he would get it, rather than to ask some person to
give him five cents, he goes and do the job. Those workers
should not be criticised. Would it pay the plantations to send
all the way to the Leewards and the same St. Lucians to
come and reap the crop? If Sturges, Bloomsbury, Locust
Hall and other such plantations had the amount of labour
on their plantations to reap the crop, they would not spend
extra money to send to the Leewards to bring those people
to work on their plantations. It is due to the shortage of
labour, and those people work as hard as possible to reap
the crop.


The Hon. Minister of Trade is telling us today that that
is the reason why we should not federate. He gives his
reason. He said: are we to take our money and spend on St.
Lucia and Montserrat? If he has cause for not federating,
that is no cause.
9.00 p.m.


That is not so because you will find it wherever you
go, In all parts of the world you will find it. That is one
of the reasons for which he is against these poor hard-
working people. When we come to the point where the
Minister says that the members of this House would like
to see 18,000 unemployed, that we are so much up against
our own people that we are against Independence, that we
are insisting in fighting against Independence and we are
encouraging 18,000 to be unemployed or words to that
effect that came from the Hon. Minister of Trade. Now,
who would like to see or hear that 18,000 Barbadians are
unemployed? I would be the most foolish person to want
that to happen; but the hon. member failed to tell us if,
with the attainment of Independence, 18,000 people would
be employed. If the hon. member assures us that these
18,000 people will be employed by our going into Indepen-
dence .......

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: On a point of order. The hon.
member heard me say, during the course of my speech,
that at present a recent survey showed that the unemployed
people in this country number 18,000. That is according to
the statistics revealed by the Labour Department. I went
on to say that the number of Barbadian people unemployed
would be increased by the influx of people from other
territories into Barbados and would undercut the wages paid
in Barbados.

Mr. SMITH: Sir, just as how the hon. member said it,
I jotted it down. He said that members from the other
side would like to see 18,000 people unemployed. If he says
that he has not said that, well, I know that people have
disowned their own voices on a tape recorder. Therefore,
I am not blaming the Hon. Minister.

Hon. A. DaC. EDWARDS: On a point of order. The hon.
member is trying to say that I am denying that there are
18,000 Barbadians unemployed What I said was that the
influx of foreigners would destroy the wages structure of
Barbados and that is what hon. members on that side of the
House are supporting.

Mr. SMITH: Well, the hon. member has admitted that
he mentioned that there are 18,000 people unemployed in
Barbados. He did not say whether Independence for Barba-
dos would relieve that number. If the hon. member had
said that as soon as we become an Independent nation
those 18,000 unemployed people will be employed, that
would have been okay; but justto be talking about the unem-
ployed people and what he intends to do as far as these
people are concerned, that is another matter. Understand
that the hon. member mentioned something about white
people; up to last night his big boss had a big party and the
majority of the people there were white people.

Mr. SPEAKER: It is irrelevant to refer, in respect
of the subject matter of this debate, to somebody having
had a private party somewhere.

Mr. SMITH: Sir, I heard that there were all white
people there.

Mr. SPEAKER: That might be so, but it is entirely
irrelevant to this debate. I was there and so was the hon.
Junior member for Christ Church,

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, I amgoingbackto the point.
The hon. senior member for St. Peter made a remark
and said that if it had not been for the political change, the
hon. junior member for the City and himself might not have
been in here. That could be true, but who is responsible
for such a change? The hon. gentleman whom the Hon.
Premier spoke so hard against last Tuesday. (Mr. MOTT-
LEY: Who? Sir Grantley Adams?)
9.10 p.m.









*1


The Hon. Introducer of the Resolution said that that
man did nothing for the people of this country, but the
hon. senior member for St. Peter admitted that a change
was made, but he did not say ......

Mr. WALCOTT: On a point of order, I must correct
this nonsense that the hon. member is talking. The speech
I made was not in the context of twenty-five years. I said
that this was a plural society, and had there not been a
change in political content, men of the ethnic group of
the hon. Junior member for Christ Churchwould have been
dominating this Chamber. I would not be so stupid as to
say that anyone person was responsible for this change,
because other people started to come here long before
us, and the hon. gentleman to whom we referred was not
the first coloured man to come in here.

Mr. SMITH: Now, Sir, I am going back to the Hon.
Introduced. We on this side have stated our point of view.
The members of the Barbados Labour Party feel that it
would be much better for Barbados to go independent
within a Federation. What the Hon. Introducer took
eight hours to tell us in his opening remarks could have
been done in half an hour if he had put it the right way,
because only in the end did be begin to shed any light
on what happened at Sherbourne by way of despatches
and the Minutes of the meetings. That is the only thing
that any intelligent person could say he managed to
understand from that ten-hour marathon speech.

The bon. member began by saying that if any person
touched either one of his Ministers, there would be a blood
bath. Now, Sir, I was never at Sherbourne but if that
temperament exists here, then it existed at Sherbourne
also. We know the Hon. Introducer of this Resolution;
he is Bajan and we are Bajans, and we know him back-
wards. These other people do not know him as we do,
and if that attitude existed there, it would be time for the
meeting to be broken up and for people to run outside
because they are strangers. We have not run out of here
yet, because we are all Barbadians and we know that
when he is getting on like that, he is making sport. When
the hon. member started to talk about this blood bath,
I began to gather my papers; but I remember I was a
Barbadian and what I could do;so I stayed here. Now,
Sir, would any sensible or intelligent thinking person
with any sense of decency and respect think of touching
either one of the Government Ministers? It would not
be worth it; so that is only stirring up anger among
people trying to get the listeners to gather downstairs
and, when hon. members are going out, to behave.
in an improper manner. The Hon. Leader of the Government
talked about a lot of cut-throats and ignoramuses. What
example is he prepared to set in this House so that we
can follow in his footsteps? We are not against his Gov-
ernment or against him, and he should always lead in the
right way and always be on the convincing side and not
antagonise us. A leader must be tolerant and must learn
to give and take, just as he is tolerating some of his mem-
bers and Ministers now. He should tolerate everybody
as he is tolerating some of them. He is not going to do
it all the time, because the lid is going to blow off soon.
The hon. member talked about a Conservative user, but
he is using them now. It is up to them not to use him as long
as they can, because it would not be for too long.

Now, Sir, we on this side are willing at all times to
assist the Government. One may think that I am against
the Government, but I have to go by my conscience. If I
feel that the Government is wrong, I am going to say so;
but if it is right, I am not going to say it is wrong. The hon.
member also mentioned that there are thousands of
foreigners contributing to crime and prostitution, and he
said that the Commissioner of Policehas been continually
complaining about these people. If the Hon. Premier knows
that such things are going on, he should not allow them in
this country of ours.
9.20 p.m.

If he is going to put up a case for not going along with
the other "boys" and saying that allthatis no good is com-


ing from outside, it does not sound right coming from the
leader of the country. I do not know if it is true, but he has
said that. I do not know his reasons: but, in my opinion, he
feels that we cannot go along with these people because they
are- not as good as we are. I will have to put it that way: I
may be wrong.

The Hon. Premier has gone so far and has spoken
about the hon. junior member for St. George in his sickness
and he has said: "Well, if the Almighty or anybody cared to
strike him down, we are not responsible for that." All
of us will be sick at some time or the other, and it is not
always the case that after you have got an injection, you
get over quickly.

Hon. G. G. FERGUESON: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a
point of order. The hon. junior member for St. Joseph has
stood up and insinuated directly that the Hon. Premier
yesterday made mention that God has struck the hon. junior
member for St. George down. That is not so. The hon.
member was speaking with reference to a printed statement
in a newspaper on Tuesday. The hon. and learned member
for St. John mentioned that this Party carried forward the
date to hold this discussion on this Resolution until after
the period of Christmas so that the hon. junior member for
St. George would have the right to sit in when this subject
was debated. Therefore, it is not right for the hon. junior
member for St. Joseph to stand up and insinuate to this
Chamber that part of what was said by the hon. and learned
senior member for St. John.

Mr. SMITH: Sir, I do not understand that point of order,
but this is what the Hon. Premier said. He said that they
could not be responsible, if God struck down any person.

Mr. WALCOTT: Mr. Speaker, I do not think the hon.
member should bring that into the debate. What the Hon.
Minister for Agriculture has said is correct. The Hon.
Premier went on to say that they did everything possible to
make it suitable for the bon. junior member for St. George
to attend the meeting on this Resolution: but if he could not
now come through a matter of illness, they are not respon-
sible for it.

Mr. SMITH: I would not get up here and say something
which was not said. When I get the debate, I will quote
what was said. Now, Sir, the Hon. Premier said that he
can go on and give a lot of stories. I would say that his
speech was eight hours of stories. That is his own word.

Mr. Speaker, I am going back to the Resolution now.
The Resolution contains a lot of "Whereas". The hon.
introducer of the Resolution read it and I am going to read
it too. It states:-

"Whereas the pre-election Manifesto of this Govern-
ment, issued in November, 1961, stated inter alia:

"The road to destiny is the road to independence...."

Now, Sir, they did not state what kind of Independence.
It points out that the road to destiny is the road to Indepen-
dence. It seems to me that the Government only took time off
to carry out certain parts of their Manifesto, and I am not
accusing the Hon. Premier for it; but if you are going to
carry out your Manifesto and do the things in your Mani-
festo, I believe that you should carry on from the first thing
in it and go down the line. Do not tumble all over the leaves
and pick out what you care and put it to the people. Of
course, it is your prerogative to do as you like; but in your
first paragraph in the Manifesto, you said that the road to
destiny is the road to independence. Sir, is it the road to
the D.L.P. independence?

Now, Sir, in the introductory paragraph oftheManifesto
it is stated: "The Democratic Labour Party present the fol-
lowing programme of action for immediate implementation
to effect social and economic improvement in Barbados.
The Party proposes that the next session of the Legislature
be limited to three years instead of the five which the Law
now permits. If it is elected to office it will at once prepare












a three-year developmental programme based on the ac-
curate and additional information which will be made
available by the opportunity to investigate the colony's
financial position and economic prospects, at first hand."

Now, Sir, that is the introductory paragraph of the
D.L.P. Manifesto, The Party has failed in my opinion to
carry out this part, and it is the first thing which is written
in their Manifesto, They promised the people of Barbados
that they will prepare a three-year developmental pro-
gramme.
9.30 p.m

They Iromlsed the people that and, In my opinion, the
people of this country voted for them on this paragraph
that there would be a three-year Session. Three years
have gone. No mention has been made in this introductory
paragraph about carrying Barbados into Independence
alone That is a very important change which is supposed
to crine about. The people were not told about it.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: On a point of order. The hon.
member is certainly distorting the policy of the Govern-
ment Party at any rate the interpretation of it. It is true
that we have promised the Electorate that there would be
a three-year Session, and we also promised reform of a
hind which camnn; he implemented in three years. If elec-
toral reform more important than anything else, one
had to give way to the other, Whoever thinks that my defence
is not strong enough, I will refer him to the "Observer" of

Mr. SMITH: No, no, Sir, If he is going to read that..,,.,

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, I did not say that I
would read it, lam referringto anarticle in the "Observer"
of September......

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, I was on my feet. I have not
misquoted the Hon Minister and what he says is not a
point of order. I have not quoted anything from the "Ob-
server".

Mr. SPEAKER: I would like hon. members of this House
to understand that the Chair and the Chair alone is the
sole judge of a point of order. The Hon. Leader of the House
has risen on a point of order, and I have a duty to listen
to hear what the hon, member says in order to determine
whether it is a point of order or not, I am not unaccus-
tomed to hear members rise allegedly on points which are
not points of order, but I am not implying that what the hon,
member is saying is not a point of order, Of course, I take
it that the Hon., Leader of the House is not unaware of Standing
Order 26(1) which says this:-

"1, A Member shall not read his speech, but he
may read extracts from books or papers other than news-
papers in support of his argument, and may refresh his
memory by reference to notes.."

Hon, J. C, TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, so much am I within
the four corners of the Standing Orders that I was merely
saying that if the hon, member needs any stronger defence
of the Government, he may refer to the "Observer" of
Saturday 26th September, 1964. That, in my opinion, gives
the best defence of my Government's policy to the accusa-
tion which the hon. member is making,

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, I thought that that little
book was the pay list and that the Hon, Minister was going
to pay us. I thought we would be paid overtime,

Mr. SPEAKER: I may have an investigation made,

Mr. SMITH: The Clerk makes out vouchers for over-
time. I am not anything to do with the "Observer"; I am
something to do with the Manifesto of the Democratic
Labour Party. This is the Government Party's Manifesto
and it is the guidance of the Party to the Electorate. Since
they have promised an Election at the end of three years,
that is a promise, and I only thought that the Party should
honour its promise. They are so sure about their re-
election; they are so sure that they are going to win the


next Election and that the work which has been done for
the last three years was more than what the last Govern-
ment had done, that, believe me, Sir, they should have
honoured their promises. They have failed to do so, and since
they have failed to do so, a doubt has been created in the
minds of the people, and you cannot blame the people for
that. Since a doubt has been created in the minds of the
people, is this Party going to tell me that they are going to
make a certain improvement before putting the question to
the Electorate?

You cannot have a Government without an election and,
taking it from the Manifesto, the Government should have
been dissolved two years ago and an election held. That
has not been done.Since that has not beendone, are yougoing
to push Independence upon the country? Areyougoingtoput
your platform for Independence as such an important matter
before the Electorate? If the people want independence,
they will vote D.L.P. If they do not want Independence,
then they will vote otherwise. In that way, your hands will be
clear. A doubt has already been created in the minds of the
people. Whatever the people may think, nobody can be vexed
with them for it. You are going on now reminding the peo-
ple that the road to destiny is the road to Independence. That
may be so, but when you make a promise, you should
honour it. It is a question of 250,000 people with whom you
are dealing. Witheverything you do, you refer to the Mani-
festo and if there is something in the Manifesto you should
carry it out,
9,40 p.m.

Single member constituencies is in the Party's Mani-
festo, and if the Government carried that out, no one could
blame them, because it was put to the people, Although my
memory is short, I think that these Manifestoes were dis-
tributed only a matter of days before the general elections.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order,
I do not know what the hon. member means by saying that the
Manifesto was circulated days before the election. This
Manifesto was presented to the electorate firstonthe night
of November 19th, 1961 and the election was held on 4th
December, that is to say, fifteen days before the general
election.

Mr. SMITH: Well, Sir, the Hon. Minister helped me. It
was not a month; so I can say "days", I can say a couple of
weeks, but I am still in order when I say "days". Now, Sir,
in a month like November, whichis near to Christmas,people
were running to your home daily and minutely begging for a
vote, and people were busy at that time and unable to study
this Manifesto. Believe me, Sir, I only read mine after
the election because I did not have the time: so it might have
happened in many homes. We are saying now, Sir, that since
the Democratic Labour Party failed to carry out their
election promises in the introductory paragraph of the
Manifesto, they should take this great change backto the peo-
ple, because a doubt has been created and it is not my fault.
Even in the Law Courts if a person is accused of murder
and a doubt is created, he gets the benefit of the doubt.

Mr. SPEAKER: If it is a reasonable doubt!

Mr. SMITH: This is a reasonable doubt. The people
should have time to defend themselves. You are putting more
power in one man's hand than there is sand on the seashore.
In Trinidad a Minister did something wrong and he had to
resign; but the Prime Minister put himina better position.
The Trinidadians began to make a little talk, and the Prime
Minister held a meeting and told the nation that if it did not
like what he did, they could leave Trinidad. Now, Sir, that
is one man -- and noteven a whole man, becauseEricis a
little man, (1. a gh ter) I am wondering, Sir, whether that
would be written into our Constitution also. It is the Con-
stitution that I am in fear of, and not Independence. When
a man can tell a nation that, we are bound to be afraid. I am
not referring now to any particular Prime Minister, but to
the office. I may be Prime Minister and I ams saying that
it would be too much power for me.

Now there are some people who become quieter, the
more power and authority they get. The first thing they


I











are going to say is that if they exercise their authority and
power, they will be criticised and they, would not do it; but
there are some to the opposite. There are some who would
want to kick you to the moon. Iam thinking of those workers
who have to work very hard and have to rely on their repre-
sentatives at some time: and if this power is given to a
Prime Minister, in some cases their representatives are
nothing at all in the eyes of the Prime Minister. Even now
there are some members on the other side who are as
vexed as anything because we have not come in here and
agreed to this. Someofthemdonotwant us to talk. What is
the good of having 24 members who are going to say the
same thing? We are not saying that we are right, but you
should convince us that we are wrong and not get up and call
us cut-throats, ignoramuses and all sorts of things.

I maintain, Mr. Speaker, that since a doubt has been
created in the minds of thepeopleofthis country, this Gov-
ernment should carry this issue to the people in an
election.

This Resolution states that "towards this goal, the
country must press on. As the island has never been a
grant-aided territory, there is no reason why within or
without a federation Barbados should not attain the full
stature of independence now within the British Common-
wealth."
9.50 p.m.

Now, Sir do not only tell us thatwe are travelling. Tell
us how we are goingto travel Tellus what boat we are going
by, or if it is by aeroplaneor by lorry. Let us know; do not
just tell us we are travelling. Tell us how we are going to
travel, and if the transport is yours or if we have to
pay for it. Some people have the idea that as soon as Barba-
dos becomes independent, they would not have to work.
Some people are thinking so, but Iwant these people to under-
stand that that is not so. Theywillstill have to work, and if
anything else, they will have to workharder. If you are ac-
customed to two meals aday, do notthink that you are going
to get the third because the island becomes independent.
Independence is not going to put extra money into your poc-
kets. You cannot go to the shop and say that "We are in-
dependent now; give me my supplies I" You cannot do that.
You cannot say that "We are independent now: I must have
a jobl" As far as the working class people are concerned,
the only thing that it means to them is that they have to
work harder. I do not see where they are going to get this
lot of benefits, and I am waiting on the Government to tell
us where we are going to get the benefits.

I do not know what is going to happen with the Civil
Service, and so on, I feel, if the Government does not have
these figures worked out and everything worked out, that
they have time enough now to work them out. Let us know
what we have to face or tells if this year the taxes will be
no more. Tell us that as far as taxation is concerned, In-
dependence is not going to cost us anything more. All of
these things should be told us in the introduction of this
Resolution. All of these things we should understand, but
they have not done anything so. All that they are saying is
that we are going it alone. Really and truly, that is not suf-
ficient.

I know by the last budget proposal that our debt was
somewhere in the vicinity of $58 million, speaking under
correction. We are going independent, and when we are
independent we still will be dependent. Independence, as far
as we are concerned is just only a name.

I do not know if conditions are going to be changed. If
conditions are going to be changed to the detriment of the
people, by all means tell us and let us hurry up; but if we
have to hang around and still have to make the necessary
loans, tell us. What is the good of your telling me now that
tomorrow you are going up to Culloden Farm and fire one,
and you can go to Government House at any time, but still
when you come back you are still hungry? What is the use
of your telling me that I can go anywhere with the big shots,
but still I have to draw my belt? I prefer to stay at home.


Who is calling and shouting for independence? I do not
mean those inside here, but I mean the ones outside who
do not know it. They just do not understand it and what it
means. They feel that just because the Government has
brought it down, it is something good; and therefore it
should come. They may feel, if they go and ask for some-
thing and they take it, that they cannot be locked up for it.
Now, Sir, when it comes like that,I do not want to mis-
lead my people, and it is time for us to tell the people and
tell them everything. Do not hide anything from them.
Tell us the truth; let us know what is to be and what is not
to be, and do not let us think along wrong lines. Tell the
people what they have to pay for it, and Ifeel that it would be
alright because some day when the people come to find out
that you are fooling them it is not going to end up well.
Let them know what to expect. They just do not understand.

Sir, you have some working people who do not even
have time to eat food. Those are the people whom you
have to talk to because as soon as you have to tax the
various items, the people feel it. All that the people are
saying, as far as I know, is that they only want to know if
you are going to increase the cost of living. There are
somepeople who have asked me that. I cannot answer that.

Mr. Speaker, I understand that we were going to ad-
journ at ten o'clock. Iwillbequltewillingtostopnowifthat
is so.

Mr. SPEAKER: There is no question of adjourning
now; it will be a question of suspending the sitting.

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: Carry on a little longer,

Mr. SMITH: It Is not that I want to stop, because if the
Hon. Leader of the House starts me up now, I will start
afresh,

I was making the point, Sir, that as the island has never
been a grant-aided territory, there is no reason for Bar-
bados going within or without a Federation.

The next paragraph of the Resolution states:-

"And Whereas a Federation of ten British Caribbean
territories then existed, and continued to exist until its dis-
solution on 31st May, 1962;"

"And Whereas this Government has, from January,
1962, to April, 1965, engaged in discussion with the Gov-
ernments of the Windward and Leeward Islands on the es-
tablishment of a new Federation,"

Now, Sir, we have the example of the old Federation.
Up to now I am not told what was the cause of the dissolu-
tion. I have beard of many things whichhappened Now, Sir,
the present Government started negotiations. The reasons
have been given us now for their not worrying with the Fed-
eration. I just cannot understand.

Mr. Speaker, I hope I will not be doing wrong if I move
the suspension of this sitting until tomorrow.

Mr. SPEAKER: Will the hon. member declare his in-
tention to the Hon. Leader of the House and get his consent?
Otherwise the hon. member may lose his right to continue
to speak.
10,00 p.m.

Mr. SPEAKER: Will the hon. member give way to the
Hon. Leader of the House?

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: I apprehend that the hon. member is
asking for the suspension of the sitting. I will reply to him
as I replied earlier this evening, that if he thinks he will
finish his speech at, say, about ten thirty o'clock p.m., I think
the House would accommodate him.

Mr. SMITH: Mr. Speaker. I do not think that Icanwind
up bytenthirtyo'clockp.m. (L daughter) Now, Sir, we have


r











an example of the last Federation, and every hon. member,
I believe, inside of this House mighthave known the pros and
cons. Since then another lot of negotiations started and
every one of the members in this Chamber has given his
view of that Federation, members who, I believe, are going
to vote for Independence within a Federation. One of the best
speeches I have ever heard since I was in this Chamber was
that of my colleague. He made a first-class speech on Fed-
eration and I agreed with him. It was a sensible speech. He
said that he wanted a strong Federation and he was in
favour of that. The hon. senior member for St. Andrew gave
another view and, as far as I can remember, every one of
the members of this Chamber who spoke was highly in favour
of Federation. I think that the hon. introducer of this Reso-
lution went so far as to say that he would federate even if
he federated with one colony. Therefore there was a unani-
mous agreement ......

Hon. J. C. TUDOR: On a point of order. I understand
the hon. member to say that the hon. introducer of this
motion said that he would federate if federated with one
colony. I think that that is a misrepresentation of the Hon.
Premier's point of view, because the whole purpose of
the White Paper was to take into accountthe changed circum-
stances since the withdrawal of Antigua, and the reserva-
tions of other territories which reduced the number of ter-
ritories which were taking part in the Federal exercise
from 7 to 3.

Mr. SMITH: Anyhow, Sir, the Hon. Premier was highly
in favour of Federation and all other hon. members were
similarly in favour of Federation. Now, Sir, what is the
reason which has been given for such a somersault having
been taken? I am willing and ready to hear the reasons why
they have departed so suddenly from coming together in a
Federation, because everybody was in favour or it. It would
help us in this way or in that way. One of the reasons which
I have heard from some hon. members was that we cannot
take the money of the people of Barbados to give it to the
other colonies. I cannot agree with that. Now, Sir, these
territories need to be developed. If we are coming together
as one, we are not just going to say that we have come to-
gether and that is all. They have the potentialities there
and the countries will have to be developed. We will have
to see about the spending and these countries will have to be
self-supporting. It is not that we will join with them and as
soon as we do that, we will start throwing money at them.

Another thing is that you have to write things in the
Constitution. For us to say that one is a carpenter, one is
a mason, one is an organblower and one is a comb-blower,
that is not good enough. If this Government knows so well
what we have heard about these territories, why then has
this Government gone so far as totryto bring about Feder-
ation? If you know that the people are poor and they are
also cutting down the wages which are paid in this country,
If you know that they are going to live immoral lives, why
are you worrying to go further in this matter? I will say
that you have all of these things already; this is not the first
time that we have had these things: we had them all already.
10.10 p.m.

If you could bring about a federation now, it would show
that the last one was wrong: but at the last moment, who is
not an obeah man is a bush doctor and that kind of thing.
All kinds of excuses have been given for not coming together
with these people, when in truth and in fact you have been
inviting them among you as guest to sit down around the
table and see if you could work out proposals. If you invited
them and they came, it would beyourdutytobe honestifthey
wanted to be wild and foolish, or iftheywantedtoworkobeah,
to tell them that they are with you and they could not come
with you and get on in such a way. If you had one chair and
you invited a guest to your home, you would give him the
chair and stand. If he wanted to be rude, then you would
have to draw to his attention that it was your place.

Now I have heard and I have mentioned here already
on the floor of this House that there was a time when
Sherbourne was nothing but a battle ground. (A VOICE:
Were you there?) I was not there, but that is what I have


heard. You know the meaning of Government. I was never
in the Government: so you would knowhow bad-behaved you
can be and unfair. I do not know how the Government works.

Mr. SPEAKER: Has the hon. member completed ad-
dressing the Chair?

Mr. SMITH: I have been interrupted, Mr. Speakerand I
would be glad if you would read the Rule about interruptionto
the hon. member. It is mentioned here in the White Paper
that owing to the remarks which one of the delegates from
the other islands made, the Hon. Introducer of this Reso-
lution had to absent himself, and if I am not mistaken, that
could be the reason for the death of the negotiations. If
that is so, that Is the act of a coward. Do you mean to tell
me that I would invite you to my place and owing to your
behaviour I leave you in my place? I do not know how to
believe that these remarks could have caused the Introducer
to leave so abruptly and cause the death of the particular
Session.

I also understand, Sir, that one of the Barbados Gov-
ernmen delegates started to carry on, and that the Hon.
Premier said that only he, and be alone, could say any-
thing on behalf of Barbados. I am still saying,however that
there is some ray of hope for a Federation, because the
Government sets out in the Resolution:

"AND WHEREASthe Government of Barbados, re-
affirming its dedication to the principles of Regional
Association, will confine after Independence to work in
close co-operation with the Governments and peoples of
other Commonwealth Caribbean Countries to promote
by joint endeavour the complete political social and eco-
nomic emancipation of all classes in all territories:"

Here the Government seems willing to cooperate and
do something; so I do not think that it can be stubborn in
relation to what we are asking, because in one breath the
Government is saying that Barbados would have to pay
for these islands out of their money, and in another breath
the Government was saying that it is willing to co-operate
with them. If the Government is really serious about what
they say here, itwould begood toenter into correspondence
with each of the islands and see if they are willing to resume
the negotiations, It does not, however, appear that this will
be the case because of the remarks which have been passed
about these people.

If the Government could give us the assurance of what
is going to happen by going it alone, we would drop the
idea of Independence within a Federation just as the Gov-
ernment has done. We are highly taxed already at least
I am because the taxes are giving me "tisike" to pay, and
I believe it is so with everybody,
10.20 p.m.

If you are going to do something to create heavier
taxation on the local day-to-day routine maintenance to
provide for that, let us know it.My opinion is that it is
going to cost us more taxation, and we would have to
raise the taxes in some way or the other. If it is not so,
tell us it is not so and set our minds at rest. It is not so
much a question of the big name. Let us have the big name
just as anybody else. Let us go with the big shots and rub
our shoulders with theirs: but atthe same time, let me know
how much I have to pay for it. Sir, do not think that I am
asking on my behalf because I do not want to go anywhere;
but the people who have to pay for it may not get the chance
to rub their shoulders with those rich people. They may
not even know of the celebration.

I do not know if the Hon. Premier is going to reply or
if it will be given by the Hon. Leader of the House. If the
hon. introducer of the Resolution thinks it isnot too late -
and it is not too late to do a good thing if he can assure
me that it is not going to cost one cent more, Okay you
have me. (A VOICE: No, no, we do not want you.)

Now that we have got to the point which I was making,
you have given us some assurance of what is likely to hap-




University of Florida Home Page
© 2004 - 2010 University of Florida George A. Smathers Libraries.
All rights reserved.

Acceptable Use, Copyright, and Disclaimer Statement
Last updated October 10, 2010 - - mvs