• TABLE OF CONTENTS
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 Title Page
 Table of Contents
 House of Commons members
 House of Commons in alphabetical...
 Officers of state
 February 1829
 March 1829
 Index














Group Title: Parliamentary debates (1820-1829)
Title: The parliamentary debates
ALL VOLUMES CITATION THUMBNAILS PAGE IMAGE ZOOMABLE
Full Citation
STANDARD VIEW MARC VIEW
Permanent Link: http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00073533/00020
 Material Information
Title: The parliamentary debates
Uniform Title: Parliamentary debates (1820-1829)
Physical Description: 20 v. : ; 25 cm.
Language: English
Creator: Great Britain -- Parliament
Hansard, T. C ( Thomas Curson ), 1776-1833
Publisher: Published under the superintendence of T.C. Hansard
Place of Publication: London
Publication Date: 1820-1829
 Subjects
Subject: Politics and government -- Periodicals -- Great Britain -- 1820-1830   ( lcsh )
 Notes
Dates or Sequential Designation: New ser., v. 1 (1820)-v. 20 (1829).
Numbering Peculiarities: Covers Mar. 1820-Feb./Mar. 1829.
 Record Information
Bibliographic ID: UF00073533
Volume ID: VID00020
Source Institution: University of Florida
Rights Management: All rights reserved by the source institution and holding location.
Resource Identifier: oclc - 07655703
lccn - sn 85062629
 Related Items
Preceded by: Parliamentary debates for the year 1803 to the present time
Succeeded by: Hansard's parliamentary debates

Table of Contents
    Title Page
        Title Page
    Table of Contents
        Table of Contents 1
        Table of Contents 2
        Table of Contents 3
        Table of Contents 4
    House of Commons members
        Page i
        Page ii
        Page iii
        Page iv
        Page v
        Page vi
    House of Commons in alphabetical order of counties, boroughs, etc.
        Page vii
        Page viii
        Page ix
        Page x
        Page xi
        Page xii
        Page xiii
    Officers of state
        Page xiv
        Page xv
    February 1829
        House of Lords - Thursday, February 5
            Page 1
            Page 3-4
            Page 5-6
            Page 7-8
            Page 9-10
            Page 11-12
            Page 13-14
            Page 15-16
            Page 17-18
            Page 19-20
            Page 21-22
            Page 23-24
            Page 25-26
            Page 27-28
            Page 29-30
            Page 31-32
            Page 33-34
            Page 35-36
            Page 37-38
            Page 39-40
            Page 41-42
            Page 43-44
            Page 45-46
            Page 47-48
        House of Commons - Thursday, February 5
            Page 49-50
            Page 51-52
            Page 53-54
            Page 55-56
            Page 57-58
            Page 59-60
            Page 61-62
            Page 63-64
            Page 65-66
            Page 67-68
            Page 69-70
            Page 71-72
            Page 73-74
            Page 75-76
            Page 77-78
            Page 79-80
            Page 81-82
            Page 83-84
            Page 85-86
            Page 87-88
            Page 89-90
            Page 91-92
            Page 47-48
            Page 93-94
            Page 95-96
            Page 97-98
            Page 99-100
            Page 101-102
        House of Commons - Friday, February 6
            Page 103-104
            Page 105-106
            Page 107-108
            Page 109-110
            Page 111-112
            Page 113-114
            Page 115-116
            Page 117-118
            Page 119-120
            Page 121-122
            Page 123-124
            Page 125-126
            Page 127-128
            Page 129-130
            Page 131-132
            Page 101-102
        House of Lords - Monday, February 9
            Page 133-134
            Page 135-136
            Page 137-138
            Page 139-140
            Page 131-132
        House of Commons - Monday, February 9
            Page 141-142
            Page 143-144
            Page 145-146
            Page 139-140
            Page 147-148
            Page 149-150
            Page 151-152
            Page 153-154
            Page 155-156
            Page 157-158
            Page 159-160
            Page 161-162
        House of Lords - Tuesday, February 10
            Page 163-164
            Page 165-166
            Page 167-168
            Page 169-170
            Page 171-172
            Page 173-174
            Page 161-162
        House of Commons - Tuesday, February 10
            Page 175-176
            Page 177-178
            Page 179-180
            Page 181-182
            Page 183-184
            Page 173-174
            Page 185-186
            Page 187-188
            Page 189-190
            Page 191-192
            Page 193-194
            Page 195-196
            Page 197-198
            Page 199-200
            Page 201-202
            Page 203-204
            Page 205-206
            Page 207-208
            Page 209-210
            Page 211-212
            Page 213-214
            Page 215-216
            Page 217-218
            Page 219-220
            Page 221-222
            Page 223-224
            Page 225-226
            Page 227-228
            Page 229-230
            Page 231-232
            Page 233-234
            Page 235-236
            Page 237-238
            Page 239-240
            Page 241-242
        House of Lords - Thursday, February 12
            Page 243-244
            Page 245-246
            Page 247-248
            Page 249-250
            Page 251-252
            Page 241-242
        House of Commons - Thursday, February 12
            Page 253-254
            Page 255-256
            Page 257-258
            Page 259-260
            Page 251-252
            Page 261-262
            Page 263-264
            Page 265-266
            Page 267-268
            Page 269-270
            Page 271-272
            Page 273-274
            Page 275-276
            Page 277-278
            Page 279-280
            Page 281-282
            Page 283-284
            Page 285-286
            Page 287-288
            Page 289-290
            Page 291-292
            Page 293-294
            Page 295-296
            Page 297-298
        House of Lords - Friday, February 13
            Page 299-300
            Page 301-302
            Page 303-304
            Page 305-306
            Page 307-308
            Page 309-310
            Page 311-312
            Page 313-314
            Page 315-316
            Page 317-318
            Page 319-320
            Page 321-322
            Page 323-324
            Page 325-326
            Page 327-328
            Page 329-330
            Page 297-298
        House of Commons - Friday, February 13
            Page 331-332
            Page 333-334
            Page 335-336
            Page 337-338
            Page 339-340
            Page 341-342
            Page 343-344
            Page 329-330
        House of Lords - Monday, February 16
            Page 345-346
            Page 347-348
            Page 349-350
            Page 351-352
            Page 353-354
            Page 355-356
            Page 343-344
        House of Commons - Monday, February 16
            Page 357-358
            Page 359-360
            Page 361-362
            Page 363-364
            Page 365-366
            Page 355-356
            Page 367-368
            Page 369-370
            Page 371-372
            Page 373-374
        House of Lords - Tuesday, February 17
            Page 375-376
            Page 377-378
            Page 379-380
            Page 381-382
            Page 383-384
            Page 385-386
            Page 373-374
        House of Commons - Tuesday, February 17
            Page 387-388
            Page 389-390
            Page 391-392
            Page 385-386
        House of Lords - Wednesday, February 18
            Page 393-394
            Page 395-396
            Page 391-392
            Page 397-398
            Page 399-400
            Page 401-402
            Page 403-404
            Page 405-406
            Page 407-408
            Page 409-410
            Page 411-412
            Page 413-414
            Page 415-416
            Page 417-418
            Page 419-420
        House of Commons - Thursday, February 19
            Page 421-422
            Page 423-424
            Page 425-426
            Page 427-428
            Page 429-430
            Page 431-432
            Page 433-434
            Page 435-436
            Page 419-420
        House of Lords - Friday, February 20
            Page 437-438
            Page 435-436
        House of Commons - Friday, February 20
            Page 437-438
            Page 439-440
            Page 441-442
            Page 443-444
            Page 445-446
            Page 447-448
            Page 449-450
            Page 451-452
            Page 453-454
            Page 455-456
            Page 457-458
            Page 459-460
            Page 461-462
            Page 463-464
            Page 465-466
            Page 467-468
        House of Lords - Monday, February 23
            Page 469-470
            Page 471-472
            Page 473-474
            Page 475-476
            Page 477-478
            Page 479-480
            Page 481-482
            Page 483-484
            Page 485-486
            Page 487-488
            Page 489-490
            Page 491-492
            Page 467-468
        House of Commons - Monday, February 23
            Page 493-494
            Page 495-496
            Page 497-498
            Page 499-500
            Page 501-502
            Page 503-504
            Page 491-492
        House of Lords - Tuesday, February 24
            Page 505-506
            Page 507-508
            Page 509-510
            Page 511-512
            Page 513-514
            Page 503-504
            Page 515-516
            Page 517-518
            Page 519-520
        House of Commons - Tuesday, February 24
            Page 521-522
            Page 523-524
            Page 525-526
            Page 527-528
            Page 529-530
            Page 531-532
            Page 533-534
            Page 519-520
            Page 535-536
            Page 537-538
            Page 539-540
            Page 541-542
            Page 543-544
            Page 545-546
        House of Lords - Thursday, February 26
            Page 547-548
            Page 549-550
            Page 551-552
            Page 553-554
            Page 555-556
            Page 557-558
            Page 559-560
            Page 561-562
            Page 563-564
            Page 565-566
            Page 567-568
            Page 545-546
        House of Commons - Thursday, February 26
            Page 569-570
            Page 571-572
            Page 573-574
            Page 575-576
            Page 577-578
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            Page 585-586
            Page 587-588
            Page 567-568
            Page 589-590
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            Page 593-594
            Page 595-596
            Page 597-598
            Page 599-600
            Page 601-602
        House of Lords - Friday, February 27
            Page 603-604
            Page 605-606
            Page 607-608
            Page 601-602
        House of Commons - Friday, February 27
            Page 609-610
            Page 611-612
            Page 607-608
            Page 613-614
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            Page 625-626
            Page 627-628
            Page 629-630
            Page 631-632
            Page 633-634
    March 1829
        House of Lords - Monday, March 2
            Page 635-636
            Page 637-638
            Page 639-640
            Page 641-642
            Page 643-644
            Page 645-646
            Page 647-648
            Page 633-634
        House of Commons - Monday, March 2
            Page 649-650
            Page 651-652
            Page 653-654
            Page 655-656
            Page 657-658
            Page 659-660
            Page 647-648
            Page 661-662
            Page 663-664
            Page 665-666
            Page 667-668
            Page 669-670
            Page 671-672
        House of Lords - Tuesday, March 3
            Page 673-674
            Page 675-676
            Page 677-678
            Page 671-672
        House of Commons - Tuesday, March 3
            Page 679-680
            Page 681-682
            Page 677-678
            Page 683-684
            Page 685-686
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            Page 689-690
            Page 691-692
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            Page 695-696
            Page 697-698
            Page 699-700
            Page 701-702
            Page 703-704
        House of Commons - Wedesday, March 4
            Page 705-706
            Page 707-708
            Page 709-710
            Page 711-712
            Page 713-714
            Page 703-704
        House of Lords - Thursday, March 5
            Page 715-716
            Page 717-718
            Page 719-720
            Page 721-722
            Page 723-724
            Page 725-726
        House of Commons - Thursday, March 5
            Page 727-728
            Page 729-730
            Page 731-732
            Page 733-734
            Page 725-726
            Page 735-736
            Page 737-738
            Page 739-740
            Page 741-742
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            Page 761-762
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            Page 765-766
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            Page 795-796
            Page 797-798
            Page 799-800
            Page 801-802
        House of Lords - Friday, March 6
            Page 803-804
            Page 801-802
        House of Commons - Friday, March 6
            Page 803-804
            Page 805-806
            Page 807-808
            Page 809-810
            Page 811-812
            Page 813-814
            Page 815-816
            Page 817-818
            Page 819-820
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            Page 891-892
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            Page 895-896
        House of Lords - Monday, March 9
            Page 897-898
            Page 895-896
        House of Commons - Monday, March 9
            Page 897-898
            Page 899-900
            Page 901-902
            Page 903-904
            Page 905-906
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            Page 919-920
            Page 921-922
            Page 923-924
            Page 925-926
        House of Lords - Tuesday, March 10
            Page 927-928
            Page 929-930
            Page 931-932
            Page 933-934
            Page 935-936
            Page 937-938
            Page 939-940
            Page 941-942
            Page 925-926
        House of Commons - Tuesday, March 10
            Page 943-944
            Page 945-946
            Page 947-948
            Page 949-950
            Page 951-952
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            Page 987-988
        House of Commons - Thursday, March 12
            Page 989-990
            Page 991-992
            Page 993-994
            Page 995-996
            Page 997-998
            Page 999-1000
            Page 1001-1002
            Page 1003-1004
            Page 1005-1006
            Page 987-988
        House of Lords - Friday, March 13
            Page 1007-1008
            Page 1009-1010
            Page 1011-1012
            Page 1013-1014
            Page 1015-1016
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            Page 1021-1022
            Page 1005-1006
            Page 1023-1024
            Page 1025-1026
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        House of Commons - Friday, March 13
            Page 1047-1048
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        House of Lords - Monday, March 16
            Page 1073-1074
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            Page 1077-1078
            Page 1079-1080
            Page 1081-1082
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        House of Commons - Monday, March 16
            Page 1083-1084
            Page 1085-1086
            Page 1087-1088
            Page 1089-1090
            Page 1081-1082
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            Page 1099-1100
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            Page 1103-1104
        House of Lords - Tuesday, March 17
            Page 1105-1106
            Page 1103-1104
        House of Commons - Tuesday, March 17
            Page 1105-1106
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        House of Commons - Wednesday, March 18
            Page 1175-1176
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        House of Lords - Thursday, March 19
            Page 1293-1294
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        House of Commons - Thursday, March 19
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        House of Lords - Friday, March 20
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        House of Commons - Friday, March 20
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        House of Commons - Monday, March 23
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        House of Lords - Tuesday, March 24
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        House of Commons - Tuesday, March 24
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        House of Commons - Wednesday, March 25
            Page 1445-1446
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        House of Lords - Thursday, March 26
            Page 1449-1450
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        House of Commons - Thursday, March 26
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        House of Lords - Friday, March 27
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        House of Commons - Friday, March 27
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        House of Lords - Monday, March 30
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        House of Commons - Monday, March 30
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            Page 1627-1628
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            Page 1631-1632
            Page 1633-1634
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            Page 1637-1638
    Index
        Page 1639-1640
        Page 1641-1642
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        Page 1647-1648
Full Text



THE


PAR IAMENTARY


DEBATES:


FORMING A CONTINUATION OF THE WORK ENTITLED

" THE PARLIAMENTARY HISTORY OF ENGLAND,

FROM THE EARLIEST PERIOD TO THE YEAR 1803."


PUBLISHED UNDER THE SUPERINTENDENCE OF
MR. HANSARD.


elt *erieo;
COMMENCING WITH THE ACCESSION OF GEORGE IV.



VOL. XX.
COMPRISING THE PERIOD
FROM
THE SIXTH DAY OF FEBRUARY,
TO
THE THIRTIETH DAY OF MARCH, 1829.




LONDON:
printeb bp t. C. wangarb at the pateroeteriaot Pre##,
FOR BALDWIN AND CRApOCK; J. BOOKER; LONGMAN, REES, ORME, AND CO.;
J. M. RICHARDSON; PARBURY, ALLEN, AND CO.; J. HATCHARD AND SON;
J. RIDGWAY; E. JEFFERY AND SON; J. RODWELL; CALKIN AND BUDD;
R. H. EVANS; J. BOOTH; AND T. C. HANSARD.

1829.












TABLE OF CONTENTS

TO

VOLUME XX.

NEW SERIES.





I. DEBATES IN THE HOUSE OF III. KING'S SPEECHES.
DTS IN THE HOUSE F IV. PARLIAMENTARY PAPERS.
COMMONS. V. LISTS.




I. DEBATES IN THE HOUSE OF LORDS.
Page
Feb. 5. King's Speech on Opening the Session ................... 1
Address on the King's Speech ........................ 5
9. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ....... 131
Portugal .......................................... 136
10. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ........ 161
12. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ....... 242
Irish Representative Peer ............................ 251
13. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ........ 297
16. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ........ 344
17. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ........ 374
18. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions against .............. 371
19. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ........ 372
Associations Suppression (Ireland) Bill .................. 388
20. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ........ 435
23. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ........ 467
Associations Suppression (Ireland) Bill .................. 486
24. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ........ 504
Associations Suppression (Ireland) Bill .................. 506
26. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ........ 545
S27. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ........ 602
Mar. 2, Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ., ..... 634
Call Qf the HQ-o ,. .., ,, 6., ,,,,,, .., i0 4 .4 i 9.,,.. 640


---T~. ----i~.






TABLE OF CONTENTS.
Page
3. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ..... 671
5. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ....... 715
6. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ........ 802
9. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ........ 897
10. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ..... 925
Roman Catholic Priests .............................. 930
Roman Catholic Claims-Peqtitions for and against ....... 937
13. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ........ 1006
Roman Catholic Oaths,.............................. 1020
16. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ........ 1071
17. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ........ 1105
18. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ........ 1292
20. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ........ 1364
Coal Trade ........................................ 1409
S 24, Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ........ 1413
: 26. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against .....1.... 1447
27. Roman C'.-ithoh Clinms--Petitions for and against ........ 1482
S 30, Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against .......... 1529



II. DEBATES IN THE HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Feb. 5. Address on the King's Speech at the Opening of the Session, 47
6." Court ofChancery .................... .......... 102
Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ........ 103
Address on the King's Speech at the Opening of the Session.. 105
9.. Portugal .......................................... 143
Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ........' 144
Portuguese Refugees ................................. .. 157
10. Roman Catholic Claims .............................. 174
Court of Chancery ................................ 176
Associations Suppression (Ireland) Bill ................ 177
12. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ........ 252
Associations Suppression (Ireland) Bill .................. 280
13. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ........ 329
Committee of Supply-Finance Committee .............. 338
Associations Suppression (Ireland) Billt ............ .. .340
16. Roman Catholic Clains-Petitions for and against .. 355
17. Turnpike Trusts ........................... ..... ... 365
SAssociations Suppression (Irlanid) Bill .................. 365
Game.Laws ......... .............'............... ...... 369
Insolvent Debtors (Ireland) ................. ......... 371
19. Roman Catholic Cla(ims-Petitionsor and against ...... 420
S Impisonment for Debt on Mesne Process .... ....... 430
20. Roman Catholic Claims-New Writ for the Vniversity of
Oxford .............. .....,.... ,..,.... ... 43?
': Army Estimates ...... .. ,,,. .... *, ,,.,.. 440






TABLE OF CONTENTS.
Page
Feb. 23.- Roman Catholio Claims-Petitions for and against .... ... 492
Sierra Leone-The Canadas .......................... 494
Life Annuities Bill ...................... ......... 496
24. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ...... 519
Employment of the Poor-Labourers' Wages ........... 538
Crown Lands .................... ......... .... 543
26,. Silk Trade .................................. .... 567
Roman.Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ........ 569
Drainage of the Bogs and Waste Lands of Ireland ........ 590
Motion for Weekly Returns of the Number of the Petitions
respecting the Roman Catholic Claims .,........... 597
Turnpike Road Bill Fees .............................. 601
27.. Silk .Trade....................................... 608
Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ......... 609
Impressment of Seamen ............................. 614
Navy Estimates .......... ................ 616
Mar. 2. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ........ 648
Duity on Glass in Ireland ........... .....,............. 661
Ordnance Estimates ................................. 662
3. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ........ 678
4. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ......... 703
5. Measure for the Removal of the Civil Disabilities on His
Majesty's Roman Catholic Subjects................. 727
6. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ........ 804
Measure for the Removal of the Civil Disabilities on His
Majesty's Roman Catholic Subjects................... 817
9. Roman Catholic Claims--:Petitions for and against ........ 898
Roman Catholic Claims ................... ..... ..... 925
10. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against .......... 963
.... Rights of Executors .................................. 983
Mutiny Bill-Corporal Punishments ............ ...... 985
12. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against .......... 988
Juvenile Offenders accused of Larceny .................... 995
Anatomy-Subjects for Dissection ...................... 998
Growth of Tobacco in Ireland ........................ 1005
13. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against .......... 1045
16. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ........... 1081
Militia Ballot Suspension Bill............................ 1103
1.7.. Roman Catholic Claims,-Petitions for and against ........... 1106
Roman Catholic Relief Bill ............. ............ 1115
18. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ......... 1174
Roman Catholic 'Relief Bill-Adjourned Debate ............. 1178
19. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ........ 1313
S Canterbury Representation in Parliament .................. 1328
Irish Qualification of Freeholders Bill .................... 4329
20. Roman Catholic IClaims-Petitions for and against ........... 1365
Irish Qualification of Freeholders Bill ................... 1373
23. Roman Catholic Relief Bill ........................... 1393





TABLE OF CONTENTS.
Page
Mar. 24. Romn-CatollidalRie(Bill .B.a u .$ i.U......... 1418
25. Roiran.Catholic. Caims-l-Ptitins for and against .......... 1444
Justices of the Peace .. .... ., ,, .... !45
"26. Roman Catholic Claims-Petitioih for and against.......... 1454
Srish Qualification of Freeholders Bill .. ;..;.'. ,... 1468
27. Roman Catholic Relief Bill .............. ....... ... 1489
30. Romtn Catholic Claims-Petitions for and against ;..;. 1532
Roman Catholic Relief Bill ........................ 1536


....... II. KING'S SPEECHES.

Feb, ... KLNC.'s.SPEEcH on Opeuing.the Session ............ .;:-1


:I: : IV. PARLIAMENTARY. PAPERS.

iii-N Coqi v NTrrotN. between his., Iajesty and the Catholic King fo
., .the final Settlement of the Claims of British and-
Spanish Subjqcts; dated October 28th 1829,,. I89
S Copy of the Rcunan Catholio Relief Bill; as brought in by "'":
..' Mr. Secretary Pel ,......................... 942
;. ,' Copy of the Irith Election Qualification Bill, as brought in by
.... .. RIr. Secretary Peel ....... ., ........ 90'


V. LISTS.

''Mar. 6. L sT ro the Majority and also of the 1Min6oity, in the House of
Commons, on Mr. Secretary Peel's Measure for the -
Removal of Roman Catholic Disabilities........... 892
i' 1. - the Minority in the House of Commons, on the Second
: .. reading of the Roman Catholic Relief Bill..,..,. 0
S 19. -- the Minqrity, in the House of Commons, on the rish
.Qualification of Freeholders Bill ........., 163B ;
20. - the Minority, in the House of Commons, on Lord .
-Duncannon's Instruction to the Committee on the Irish
Qualification of freeholders Bill ,............'.. 1393
., **;,. 8,3. the Minority,in the lHtoseof Commons,-on Mr. Bankes'. '
.:.: ... ... .A mndmp nt to iheiPreamble of the Roman Catholic
:.: "r, Relief Bill.... .... .......................... 1400
-2" the. Minority in the .louse df Commons on Mr. Moore's
"- 1 Instructibn to the Cdriniittee on the Irish Qualificatipn
f.... of Freeholders Bill ............................ 1432
30). -' the Majority and also of the Minority, in the House of ,,;:
SCorimonis, on the Third Reading of the Roman Catho- ...
Slie Relief Bill...,.. .......... ..... .: 1633


1%* 7


I- I1
1 -. ..


'" ''' 'r :
-": i:i





1*A


HZf A.H.JQUSE O.E COM-MONS,


nRsT- gMi6ff4 Of' 'Ji'fiti'HTH PARLIAnMENT QP THE UNITED KINGDOM OF

S. GREAT BRITAIN AND IREL.AND,
; APPOINTED TO MEET AT WESTMINSTER THE 14TH OF NOV.18
IN THE SEVENTH YEAR OP

GEORGE THE FOURTH.


ABERCROMBY, hon. J .. .. Calne
ABLET, Joseph .. .. .. Denbigh
ACLAND, sir Thos. D., bt. .. Devonshire
A'COURT, Edw. Henry .. Heytesbury
ALCOCK, T. .. .. Newton, Lancashire
ALEXANDER, James .. Old Sarurn
ALEXANDER, J. Du. Pre .. Old Sarum
ALEXANDER, Henry .. Barnstaple
ALTHOlk,,,Vise., .. Northamptonshire
Asso, sir Geo. .. .. LLihfield
ANsoN, hon. Geo. .. .. Yarmouth
ANTraoBs, GibbsCrawf. .. Plynmploi
APsLEY:,I rd.. .. Cirencester
A UBUTHNOT, rt hoi. C.*.. St Germnins
ARUTHNAdT, h6oi. H.;. Kincardineshire
ARCEDECKNE, And. .... Dunwich
ARCHDALL, Mervyn .. Fermanaghshire
ARKWRIGHT, Rich. .. .. .. ye
ASHBURNH.M, hon. P. .. Beeralston
ASHLEY, lord .. ..... Woodstock
ASH LEY-COOPER, hon. A. .. Dorchester
ASHURST, Wmi. H. .... Oxfordshire
AsTiE'L, Wti'. .. .. ..Bridgewater
ASTLeY, sir John D., bt. .Wiltshire
ATKrNS, John .. .. .. Arundel
ATTWOODi, Matt. .. .. Callington
BAtER, John ...... Hedon
BAKER, Edward .. .. .. Wilton
BALFOUR, James ... Crail, 8c.
B4-sKs, Henry .. Dorsetshire
BANKES, George .., Cofe-Castle
B.ARCLAY, David .... .. Penryn
BARCLAY, C. .. .. Dundalk
BaRING, Alexander .. .. Callinglon
BARN., sir Tos. bt. .. Wycoinbe
BARING, FranDis .... Portsmouth
BAklf'r., W.B..... .. Thelford
BARWNAR.i Vte; : 1::, .. Totniss
BARNE, M4maiae; ;. .. .. T'D ich'
BAXEhTT, Samuel; B. M. Richmond
BASTARD, Edm. Pollexfen .. Devonshire
BASTARD, John .. .. Dartmouth
BATLEY, Chas. H. Beverley
BECKETT, rt. hon. J. .. Haslemere
VOL. XVI. { }w
NOWi%


BECTIVE, earl of .. .. Meatlirshire
BELrAsT,, ear.'of .; .. .. Beifast
BELGRAVE, vise .. Chester
BELL, Matthew .. Northumberland
BENETT, Johii .. ..... Wiltshire
BrNsbnw-Ralph .. .. Stafford
BENTINCK, lord W. H. C...King's Lynn
BERESFORnD, Marcus '.' i' Berwick
BERNAL, Ralph .. .. .. Rochester
BERNARD, Thos., jun. .. King's County
BnraHAMllord : .. .. Mayo
BI wING, lord .. Yarm. I. of Wight
BTRCn, Joseph .. .... Nottingham
BISH, Thomes .. Leominster
BLAC KBURNE, John .. Lancashire
BLAIR, James ...... Minehead
BLANDFORD, marquis Woodstock
BOND, John .... .. Corfe-Castle
BONHAM, Henry .. .. ..Rye
BORRADAILE, R. .. NeiLcastle-und.-Lie
BOURNE, rt. hon. W. Sturg... Ashburton
BOYD, Walter ..- .. Lymington
BRADSHAW, Rob. Haldane .. .rackley
BRADSHAW, James .. .. Brackley
BRECKNOCK, earl of.. .... Bath
BRIGHT, Henry .. "...' Bristol
BROGDEN, James .... Launceston
BROUGHAM,-Henry .. .. Winchelsea
BRoGHAM, James .. .. Tregony
BRowNE, James .. .. ..Mayo
BiOowNLow, Charles Armyighshire
BRUCE, arl ..-. .. Marlborough
BRUDEdiLL, lord .. .. Marlborough
BrnuEN, Henry .. .. Caqyowshire
BRYDGES, sir John ..** Coleraine
BUcK, Lewis W ... ..... Exeter
BULLER, Charles .. .. Wst Looe
BtrLLER, John .. .. .. West Looe
'Bn rDETT, sir F.; bt. .. Westminster
B R R E L sir C. M., bt... New Shoreham
BURRELL, Walter .... .. Sussex
BUTLER-CLARKE, hon. C.H. Kilkennysh.
BUXTON, John Jacob .... Bedwyn
BPXTON, Thos. Fowell .. Weymouth






( ii )


BY,2G, George .. Middlesex
BYROw, Thomas. .. .. Hertford
C LC .AFT, John .. .. Wareham
Ce jrnH RPE hon. Fred. G. .. Bramber
CAT. THORPEr hon. A. Gough .. Hindon
CA ~LV RT, Charles ., .. Southwark
C i'VERT, John .... Huntingdon
CALVERT, Nicolson .. Hertfordshire
CAMP BELL, Walter F. ... Argyleshire
CAMPBELL, Archibald .. Glasgow, $c.
CAMPBELL, John .. Dumbartonshire
CANNING, rt. hon. G.. Newport, I. of W.
CAPEL, John .. Queenborough
CAREW, Rob. Shapl. .. Wexfordshire
OCiTaART'rENmr, marq .. .. Haileston
CABRNGTON, sir E.,C. .. St. Mawes
CARTER, John ..... Portsmouth
'CARTWIGHTI W. R.. Northamptonshire
CASThZEA0Rp, lord .. .. Downshire
"CA u.i LD, r1i. ho i;He'ry, Atripi, l r.
Ca F, Robert O. .. .. L stir
CA LeWnsjt, Id. G. A, H. .. Derbyshire
C.i. AINDiSH, hon, H, F. C. .. Derby
CAVENDISH, Chas, C. .. Newton, Hants
.CWTHORNE, John F, .. Lancaster
'OEC~2, lord Thos, ,, Stamford
iLAxBERLAYNE, Wi. .. Southampton
CnAW POS, marquis ..... .. Bucks
CiP t.PLi, Charles .. .. Lincolnshire
"CirA4rN, Thomas .. Stamford
CHICH T6 an, sir A.,bt... Carrickfergus
CH ICIIST EI, Arthur.'. Milborne-Port
C1OLMLrIEY, M. J. .. .. Grantham
CHOLNION DEL v, ld. H.... Castle R;s;,, i
CLE MNT -, lord .. .. L,,ii,,ir.
CLERK, sir Geo., bt. .. Edinburghshire
C L I FTO N, lord .. .. Canterbury
CLINTON, sir W.,. .... Newark
CLI VE, viscount .... Ludlow
OLTive, Henry .. Montgomery
C.IvE, hon. Robert H. .... Ludlow
CjiyE, Edw. B. .. .. Hereford
COCs BUN!,s sir eo .. ... Weobly
Coc rr n[ i.r, sir Chas., bt. .. Evesham
OfCeksi James .... Ryegate
CoKRE, Thb1. Wi. .. .. Norfolk
CUoE, $ir Christ. .. Glamorganshire
CO. LT' r, Ebenezer John .. Cashell
CourLirRir. sir Nich.C., bt. .. C.,i-
CowNoR i ', sir Wm., bt. Pi,,...1.
"COOKE, sir Henry F. .. O.if i'a
CooPER Rob. Bransby .. (I./.,t:r
CoT:Irn, Edward Synge ., '/,.tr
COOPER. J. H. .. .. '.lattnnali
Coo'i air Chas. H., bt... Queen's County
'Cor r sir J.. .. Cambridge Univers.
Co BEI r. Panton .. .. Shrewsbury
('oR'v", viscount ., Fermanaghshire
CoR RT, hon. H. T. Lowry.. Tyroneshire


COTTERELI, sir J, ,,bt Hlerefordshire
COUiRTENAY, Tho's. Peregrine .. Tot nes
CRIADOCK, Sheldon .. .. Cmelfo&d
CRIPPS, Joseph .. .. C'iencester
CROKER, John Wilson ., Aldebikrfh
CRO~PTON, Samuel Derby
CurF, James.... .. TraIee
CURTEIS, Edward Jer. .. .. Sussex
CURTIS, Sir Wm.,'bt. .i. Hastings
CURWEN, John C. .... C('mbirlic,
CURZON, hop, Robert .... Clitherow
CUST, hon. Peregrine F. .. Clitherow
DALRYMPLE, Adol. J... Haddington, dc.
DALY, James .. .. Galwayshire
DAVENPnRT, Davies .. Cheshire
DAVENPORT, Edw. D. .. S.Iftesbury
DAVIDSON, Duncan .. Crcinirtnahi,'ii
DAVIES, Thos. Henry Worcester
DsvIs, Rd. Hart .... .. Bristol
DAw.KINs, Henry ., Boroughbridig
DAWSON, Geo. R. .. Lunrndtrry Cojunt
DAwsoN, James H. M. .. Chlonmen
DAWSON, Alex .. 4outhshire
DEaIsoN, Wm. Joseph .. .. rrei
DICKINSON, Wm. .. S.aersr.lstir
DOHERTY, John .. Kilkenny
DOMvILLE, sir C., bt. .. OkehamptQo
DOTTIN, Abel ,. Si:#haniptlia
DOUGLAS, Wm. R. K. .. Dan.riies, I c.
DowDESWFLL,Johi Edm. ..Tewkesbry
DoWNES, lord .. .. QIIrcrioroulI
DOwNIE, Robert .. InerRcitling, .
DUCANE, Peter .. ,... Steynii
DuFF, hon. Alex. .. .. Ein, 4(q.
DUGDALE, Dugd. Stratf... Warwickshire
DUNCANON, ViS Badn-brorUge
DUNCANNON, vis. .. Kilkennyshire
DUNCOMBE, Thos, S. .. Hertford
DUNCOMBE, hon. Win. Yorshirv
DUNDOS, Chas, .. .. Berkshire
DUNDAS, hon. Thos. .. ... Richmond
DUNi)AS, rt. ion. Wm. .. Elihaurgh
DUNDAS, hon. G. H. L .. Orkney
DUNDAS, hon. Henry ... Rochester
DuNDAS, hon. sir R.. ,, Retfor1
EAST, sir Ed. Hyde .. .. Wu /ilsthq
EASTHOPE, John .. St. Alan'
EASTNOR, vise .... ,. Herefor
ERpiINGTON, visc. .. T. v-
EDEN, hon. Robert H, .... Fowey
EpactlMBE,hon. Geo: .Plhmplon'i EIule
EbERTON, Wpibrahban .. ,. ChsfiirP
ELIOT, ord .. .., Liskeqqr4
ETLIS, ,hon.G. Jam. W.A,. Lad,.rshail
ELLIS, Aug. F, .... '.. Seafqr4
ELLISON, Cuthb. a'castl.t-upon-Tyne
ELPHINrTON, Jas D. B. I. st Louo
ENNIS1OBE, vise .. .. Curkthirt
ESTCOUrT, Thos. G. B. .. Oxford (p,,.






( Wi )


EsTceuRT, T. E. G. D., Downtown
Eno.x, earl of .. Bury St. Edmunds
Ev.ws, Henrv .. .. .. Wexford
-A,, JJhn Thos. L, ., Lyme Regis
.FA-, ha. H. S. .... Lyme Regis
FANw; John ..,,.. Oxfordshire
EABQUHAR, James .. ortarlington
F,aQL ra iu, sir Rob. T. ,, .. Hythe
,FA&,AxESrEY, John N .... Lincoln
,EirAQWEs, Win, Hen.,, Huntingdonshire
PFRusoN, Rob. C. .. Kirkcudbright
FgivEvUots, sir Ronald C ., Dysart, &c.
FjaBas-ToVNSHEND, ld C. Tamworth
FL( H i s I o N ril' G, R, bt. Longfordshire
F~E, earl of .. .. amfshire
FPIz.qXALD, rt. hon. Wm.V. .. Clare
FI '~TI ALD, rt, hon. Mau. .. Kerryshire
F, ,EIALD, d.W. nC... Kildareshire
F-Wa nSBQ P, John .. .. Seaford
.i!T-GABBoi, hon. Rd. Livnerickshire
FITRa4o, lord Chas. .. Thetford
FI iaiNa, John .. .. Hampshire
FoLr, John H. H. ,. ., Droitwich
FOQEY, Edw. T .. .. Ludgershall
FOLKSESTONE, vise ... New Sarumzr
FoQRps, sir Chas., bt. ,. Mamnesbury
FORBES, visc.... .. Longfordshire
FQRBES, .John .. .. AMalmesbury
FQgEs~aT, hon, John .. Wenlock
FORTESOUE, hon. Geo. M. .. Hindon
FOSTER, John Leslie .. Louthshire
Fox, hon. Henry .. .. Horsham
FBANKLIND, Robert .. .. T-hirsk
FAEM4BNTLE, rt. bon. W. H. Buckingham
F04rECH, Arthur .. Roscommonshire
FYLER, Thomas B. .... Coventry
FYwFSa-CLINTON, C, J .. Aldborough
QARLIES, viscount .. Cockeriwouth
Q4SC0QNE, Isaac .. Liverpool
GILBERT, Davies .. .. Bodmyn
GL4.sTO:NE, John .. Berwick
GoocH, Thomas Sherlock .. Suffolk
GQORDON, Robert .. .. Cricklade
G Q poq, hon. Will. .. Aberdeenshire
GORDON, James A. Tregony
GORDON, John .. .. Weymouth
GovUTBURN, rt. hon. Henry .. Armagh
GqwaIR lord F. L. .. Suteorlandshire
GRAuHAM, marquis of, ,. Cambridge
G -IIiiai, GQeorge E, .. iinrosshire
GRIHAM, sir J. R. G. .... Carlisle
GRANT, rt. hon. Charles Inverness-shire
.GANT, hon. Francis William, Elginshire
QGANT, sir Alex. Cray .. Aldborough
GRANT, Robert .. .. Fortrose, &c.
GnRr r A, James, Wicklowshire
GH.r iN H. TTnry. .. .. Dublin
Gu. v's, lord .. .. Milborne Port
GiKr.i N Thoni .. .. Lancaster


GREEN HILL.RUSSELL, Robitl ., Thirsk
GREVILLE, hon. sir (C'h. J. .. I,, :wck
GRQSVENOR, Thomas .. Sto./dLtidle
GROSVENOR, hon, Robt. ., _/qir
GUEST, Josiah J. .. .. .. aiont
GUISE, sir B. W. bt. .. Gloi"celSirsliige
GURNEY, Hudson Newton, Jfantfs
GYE, Frederick .. Chiiplpeatin
HALDIMAND, William .. ,, Ipswich
HALSE, James .. .. Al. Ies
HAMILTON, lord Arch. ,. Lanarksiree
HANDCOCK, Ed...... .At*lone
HARDINGE, sir Henry .. P.DrAam,(ty
HARE, William ...... Krvyslie
HART, George Vaughan ,, Doyegglsife
HARVEY, sir Eliab ... ., ia$
HARYEY, uaniel W. ,. .. (!qlc4estsr
HASTIN1GS, sir C. A; .. igytar
HAWKINS, sir Christopher St. lves
HAY, Adam ,, Selki4, 4c.
HAY, lord John .. Hadjinfcjnshivee
HEATHCOTE, sir Gilbert, bt. .. 4utland
HL .\rtIE r, G. J. ... .. .. BSoto#
HEATHCOTE, Richard .. .. qvQentny
HEATTICOTE, sir W. ., Hampshire
HENEAGE; George F. .. ., gqirhy
HERON, sir Robert, bt, ,, Petqborough
HERRIES, John Charles ., ( Hrwih
HILL, lord Arthur .. .. Downsiie
HILL, rt. hon. sir G. F. .. ndo~ademryy
HILL, sir Rowland, bt. ., hropshire
HOBHOUSE, John Cam. ,. I ,tr
HODGSON, Fred. .... .. p.arn.ple
HonsoN, Alex... .... WItg
HOLMEs, William ,. Bis4 p'q Castle
HOME-DRUMMOND, Henry Stirlivgs4ire
HONEYWOOD, William P. .. .. Kent
HOPE, hon. sir Alexander Linlitfgowshire
HOPE, sir W. Johnstone Dmfriis- hir,e
HoTHAM, lord .. .. Leominster
HOULSWORTH, Thomas .. Pontefradt
HOWARD, hon. Fulk G, .. Castle Rising
HOWARD, Henry .... New Shoreham
HOWICK, viscount .. .. Winchelse
HUGHES William Lewis ..' WMflingforfi
HUME, Joseph .. Aberdeen,, e.
HURST, Robert ...... Hprsham
HUSKISSON, rt. hon. Wm. .. iLperppol
HUTCHINSON, J. H. .... Tippcrarq
HUTCHINSON, hon. C. H .. .. CorQ
INGILBY, sir W. A., bt. .. Lincolnshire
INNES, sir Hugh bt. ... Kirkwall, e.
IRONMIONGER, R .. ... .tjffourf
InvING, John .. .. .. Brarber
JENKINSON, hon. Chas. C. C. Grinstead
JEPHSON, C. D. 0. .. .. alldlow
JERMYN, earl .. Bury St. Edimniids
JOLLIFE, Hylton .. .. :6'ild
JONES, John .... .. Carmarthen
a 2








qi9 nas ,.; Carhowshir
IL$TWICtI, Saimuel T. ..; Exeter
EI.r, Thos. Readl ,. .. .. Lewes
C. ~N UYv, Thomas Francis ., Ayr, ec..
K rRisoQN, sir Edw., bt. .... Eye
Knr;, sir John D., bt. Wycombe
K IN hon. Henry .... .. Sligo
Ipg,, hIn. W. .. Roscommonshire
apGion. Rob ..... Corkshire
kkNTcEIrTL., sir Edw., bt. .. Kent
K.ox, hon. Thomas ungannon
-gsq,4,hon. J,,H. .. .. .. Nery
A ;o~,H Ht, Henry ,. I. Michael
J i4si on. George .. Dungaoron
LA .oTar, John George .. Durham
4I4AosTo N,-James H... .. Oxford
S: sc LLES, hon. W. Sebriglht Erst Looe
JL.$CZLES, hon. Henry ortlu/irrton
.-tA ,0(eyg,, r;obert ..' Kddurcnhi're
-wApe Y, Francis ., ... lWarwickshire
I.L.KA,-, W illiam ;., l. Al;hael.
cgq,!3 pn. Arthur C. r. Banbary
fim^ho mas .. Newt'^Y(, L(icashire;
.LEOM-KLL K,, CGeorge 4nt.. eiseitershirel
LE.NNAR, Thomas B. .. .. Maldon.
~gpRx, lord John Geo. .. Cihistltri
&sFSAEER, Benjamin Lester .. Pool
Iy,. spiIGDGC sir T. B., bt. SuiJnrsethiri
,^yis, F... .. .. .. Ln.,,
Y ,CCESTER, Ralph .. Shoftesbq'ry
LTDDELL, lion. Henry T. Nortlumberland
JUAX('*IAT, hon. H. 'Forf.r, .-c.
Jl4, s ,, James .. .. .. I.a.ynl
i ;rxTroN, Edward John S4ajfordshire:
;L~,YD, sir Edw. Price, bt. .. Flint.
,L ,Q T. .. .. Linicrik.lirc'
IOOKfPART, William Elliot Selkirhkshire
Locan R r, John Ingram .. Oxfordi
LoMB,% Edw, .. .. .. Arundei
.opEz, sir Manasseh, bt. .. Westbyry.
IAPT. Henry,B. .. ,. .. Honitpa
LoYAI SE,lord .... ..Beeralstof
.AriLvqpsR, hon. Henry C. Westmorlknd
Low.ruLTi, sir John, bt. .. Cumberland
* qNM ,w R-,John Henry W.. Wigton, 3c.
fi rysW5.T yisct. .. WestfrorlCn4
,,4uCY;George .. .. .. Fowegy
;LIaJIY, John S... Nottinghamshire
:LySjINGTON, Stelphen R. (.:(tilibhry
.Lg.aHpTPro, Stelhci .... 7Tr,,:iRn:I
jfrT1StFrLL, Joln IFownes .. 3htlhead
j~~g N, bon. Henry B. .. Iorc ,Uitshirq'
MA,,1' r, LY,,Joh .... AbtLgdon
MA.11StL.v, \Villham L. .. Nortl,.,iptou
,,]IACSQ4iL N L D, sir Jan.llic Calo
.MAl C zt. t_, sir J. \'. it. .. Rosi-sl,/o
H. MatI LLI.LOP, Jamtn .. .. Tr,'Io,
.MATICKl ru'Ln, sir James, bt. A'uait'bor'
NI cN ui v. iuS, Edn. Ales..1, hirthi, i


T'A Crretw, Thomas P. .. otrsre
M11.I N is, Richard ... .. Ehnikilen
AM.lrLAND, viscount ,. .. Aplb
AI ITLAN D, hon. Antony.. Beipickslirp
iM. ITLN D, Eben. F. '.. 'Chippdnhal
MALCOLM, Neill .. .. 'iop
MANDEVILLE, viscount HlintIngdon i)irF
MANNERS, lord C, Somerset .. Chmb.
MANNERS, lord Robert .. Leiiesterhi'e
MANNING, William .. .. 'Pe'iryin
MARJORIBANKS, Stewart .. .' Hehe
MARRYATT, Joseph .. .. aldwic/i
MARSHAIL, John.. Yorkshtre
IARnsu.ALL, Williani ... Ptersfield
Al.\RTIN, sir Thomas B. .. Plymouth
MAl.urIN, Richard .. .. Galwayshire
IMl.RrIN, John .. .. Teuwksbtry
MI L, L, hon. William R. .. Forfarshire
Sl.Ax C t.L, John .. .. Renfrewshire
MA x WE L L, John Waring.. Downpatrick
l.\ xW LL, sir Wm. .. IWigtons ire
MAf 1A.X LL, Henry .. .. CaOanshire
MEYNLLL, U. .. .. Lisbirne
MILBANK, Mark .. .. Camelford
MILDMAVY, Patulet S. 'John Irinchester
MILTON, viscouni .... ..' orkshire
\MoNCK, John Berkeley .... Readoly
MO NT Lr.L Hentry .' .. .... Sns/
AliNro0tlrRIEr, Ja n .. .. ilyrshvge
AMIONl( OMl RY, sir Jarmes, br. Peeble/tire
bloort, Geoige .. Dublin
MoAlG.AN, sir C., bt. .. MIoAlonotshire
MORGAN, George Goidld ... .. Brecbo
MOn LAND, sir Scrope B.,'bt .. St. MaiLes
MORP.llr, viscount .. Tforpeth
Al ITVr sir Thomas, bt." .. Flihtshire
IOUN IIn IRLLS, earl .. Donlgabhire
MI \l D, Francis .. .. Derbyshire
MI uN D, George .... Boroaghbridye
u R Rn. v, sir George .. Petthshire
MI usG HAVE, sil Phllip, ht. ,. 'aiHle
NEWBoaROUGHr, lord .. Carnarvonshire
N4wpoR, rt. hon; sir J, bt... Ifaterfo, d
NICHOLL, rt. lin. sir'John Beitr
NIcGH riNlt.ALL, Sic Miles .. .. E0P
NOEL, lir Gerard N., bt .. Rudtlnd
NoRAiMANBY, vise. ... .'.' latoL
NORTlICO'TE, Henry'S, .. Heytesbtry
NOUTON, George C. .'. .. hiildjbrd
N u- EN i. sir GTorsge, bt Buckingham
NGcIsild lord Ayleshbiy
O'BRtr.N, .. .. :. ..'- C re
O'J-I.a., James .3 .. .: GOdlay
O'N LL;, hon. Jollp Rd. B,,. Antrimshire
O'N ILL, Align. .' Kingstun-uponM-Hinl
ONSLijW, Aithur .. .. Guddjfoid
OH.D, Willianm .. .. .. orfiet
Os sIBUn loidt F. .. Cambiridgeshire
0\ r N, sir .lJoh bt '. NtoK hire






( )


.QA,~gh 0.d ... -. .. 0. Pembroke
OwE ,st Edvw. 1 .. ,dit,'icf
Ox-tANATOWW, lord" .. Kings Camity
P, WT, lord William .. .. Carnarvon
P..ALK, Sir Lawrence V., bt.. Ashburton
P'LMER, Robert .. .. Berkshire
PALM ER, Charles N. .. .. Surrey
PAL MERSTON, viscount.. Camb. Universe.
P.\RNLLL, sir Henry, bt. Queen's County
PEr.vutIE, W'illiam .. Taunton
~-EARLSE, John ... .. Devizes
EErL, right hoi. Robert Oxford Univers.
PEEL, William Yates .. .. Tamworth
PE L, Jonathan .. .. .. Norwich
PELIuAM, John Cresset .. Shropshire
PELLEW, hon. Powell Bast... Launceston
PENDARVIS, Edw. W. .. Cornwall
PENNANT, Geo; H. D. .. Romney
PENNRIDDOCK, John H. .. .. Wilton
PERCY, hon. C. .. Newport, Cornwall
PuILLI MORE, Joseph Yarmouth of W
PrirLrs, George .. lotion Bnasell
P~;iais,'George'Richard .. S/qnirng
PH LIP S, Richard B. .. Haverlbrdu'est
PHIPPS, hon. Edmird ..' Scarborough
PITT, 4oseph .... .. Cricklade
pUEXkETT,'it. hon. Win. C. Dublin Uni.
is9LLEN sir John W., bt. A.ndovcr
PqNsxsBY, ion. Fred.. .Higha n Frrors
PdNSoNay, hbn. G. ... Yuihq/
PposONBY, hon. W. F. .. Podle
PORTMAN, Edi. Berkeley.. Dorscshire.
POWELL, W. Edward C.. Grdigqnshiir
PQOEUy Richard .. IVotfofbrdshir
'owi.rr, hon. Wn. I.F. Durham Coin.
POY~TZ, William Stephen .. CihichesItr
PRErNbDEi.GA r, Michael Geo. .. Galton
PpEXDE;RGAST, Guy L. Lymington
PRier, Robert Herefordshire
PRICE, Richard, .. .. New Radtior
PRINGLE, Sir Wm. Henry .. Liskeard
.qITTIE, HOn. Francis A. .. Tippraru
PROBY, hon. pran. L. .. Iiicklr:,ei.ie
PROT.H'EROE, Edw. .. E'.. "'-hm
PtRYSI, Pryse, ,, .. Cardigan
1 AIN Jonathan '.. Newport, Cor, wIL'Q
Ra As eOTilM,Johin .. ,ndsor
E pr, John Charles ..' .. M llon
RA-cLIFrr, lord ,. .. Nottingham
t CE-TRv a on, George Rice; C armiirthen
RIc Thomas Spring ..Linerick
.RIKIfORD, William .. .. Ay1csbrry
DiE fY, sir att.' Viite, bIt Neavcds'tlk-
.... ... ,up I '"W-Eyn
Pp.A 4 m I Tai.sltune
S,, TS, George James .., ''allif,'jbrd
QaQRTs, Wilson A. .. '...Bewdl
RosBNsoN, rt.hon, F.J. ,. RIpo
IRon1oiu, sir OebrgO, bt, Northampqlo.


RoBINSON, George R. .. WTTiresoter
Rorli H F i, Gust. f 'st, fath Co'nitl
ROGERS, Edward .. Biihp' Caste
ROSE, rt. hon..sir. Geo. H. Christch'itr
ROSE, George P. .. .. Chrisltchi;r
Ross, Charles ...... St. Geri aids
ROWLEY, sir W., bart .. .. Sufltb
RUMBOLD, Charles-E. .. .. Thrmoulk
RUSSELL, William .. Bietchbngly
RUSSELL, lord George W. '.. BerlJo d
RUSSELL, John ...... in'le
RUSSELL, lord W. Tavistbik
RYDER, right hon. Richard .. Tivertn
ST. PAUL, sir H. D. Chol. bart. Bridport
SANDON,,viscount .. .. .. vwerto
SAUNDERSON, A. ..... Cavanshire
SCARLETT, James .. .. Peerborough
ScoTT, Saniiuel .. .. .. Whitchurch
ScTrr, hon. \'m. H.1 .. Netiport
SCOTT, fHk ry F. .. ovburgh,,ire
SCOTT, hon. William .. .. Gatton
SriERtGHT, sir JohnS., bt. I,'/tford/iz.
SE-Trot, earl ol' '". .. Droilwitch
Sr.vnourt. Henry- '. Tatmton
Scr ~rOu l, F. B. F. Bodnri Ortord
Sn .i6t ELL, Larnc. '.. .. ..' Ripo
SHARP, Richard :. .' ... Ilchsler
Siir r sir John, bart. .; .Ldws
SIIIRLrV, Evelyn J. .. Monanyhouiihre
SirTionR.' Charles .. .. Lincbln-
SINCL.AIR, hon. Jmes .. Buie
Si NrNV, Robert A. .. ..Shrewsbury
SMITII, George.. .. .. TWrl.)ir
sN llr ii. John .. .. l.'. idurt
SAiiTn, Abel .. .. .. MA;dihr,,is
SMITH, Christopher : .. St. A l/ni's
SM IT t, hon. Robert J., Buckinghamshire
SnIi Samuel .. . I Wedover
SMITH, Thos. Assheton, Jun. .. Andbtdr
SMITH, William .. .. ..- Nortoich
SMYTH, sir G. H. bart. .. Cuolcheser
SOMERSET, lord Gran. C. H. Mlurno,lths.
SOMERSET, lord Robt. E. H. Gloickstei's.
So~MRSET, lord Fitro~ .. ro
SOMERVILLE, sir Marcus, bart. MArethih.
SOTHERON, Frank' .. otingha,'ll 7inh/i
Sot iiE v, Robert .. .. .Dvra
SPENCE, George .. .. : Readitg
SPOTTIWOOnnr, A. .. ..lldtas
SrTNLEY, hon. Ed.GiS. ..: Prest
STA.NLEL, lord .. .. ..LiWnthSHii e
ST.ARaI, LeGende .. .. Ponlfraft
Sr r rn r N so r Rowland i e6eoii'tbr
~i'rw. AR, Alexander R. Lomdonde) tq Si/re
Srr ART, William .. Tr CTrone,'. k
Srr T\nT, John ..' .. .. B.cerq
STmrrFORD, viscourt .. T U'\ rdsclire
STRATIIAVEN, lord .... riinibd
STRauTT Joseph Holden .. Oktharnmp






( vi )


STUART, James .. .. Huntingdon
STUART, lord P. J. H. E. .. Cardiff
STUART, Henry V. .. Waterfordshire
STUART-WORTLEY, hon. J, .. Bossiney
SUTTON, right hon. G. Mannets Searboro'
SYKES, Daniel .. Kingston-tpon-Hull
TALBOT, Rikhiad Wogan .. Dublinshire
TALMASH, Fred. J... .. Grantham
TAPPS, George W. .... .. Romney
TAVISTOCK, marquis of .. Bedfordshire
TAYLOR, Charles Wm ... .. Wells
TAYLOR, George Watson .. Devizes
TAYLOR, Michael Angelo,. Durham City
TENNYSON, Charles .... Blechingley
THoMPsoN, William .. London
THOMPSON, George L. .. Haslemere
TaoMPsoN, Paul B.... Wenlock
THOMsoN, Charles, P.- .. ... Dover
THYNNE, lord John .... .. Bath
THYNNE, lord W. ...... Weobly
TIERNEY, rt. hon. George Knaresborough
TINDAL, Nic. Conyngham .. Harwich
ToMEs, John .. .... Warwick
ToMIexE,W. E. .. .. .. Truro
TORRENS, Robert, .. .... Ipswicl
ToyNSHErD, lord J. N. B. .. Halleston
TI, iSfHE.D, ihon. J. R. .. Whitchurch
TRENCH, Fred. Wm .. .. Cambridge
TUDWAY, John,P. .. .. .. ells
TUFTON, hon .H.. .. ....Appleby
TUITE, H. M. ....... Westmeath
TULAM.ORE, lord : .... Carlow
TuNxo,.Edward R .. .. Bossiney
Twiss, Horace ., .. Wootton Basset
TYNTE, ChaseKemys .. Bridgewater
TYRWHIT-DRAKE, Thos. Agmondesham
TyVWHIT-DRAKE,' Wm. Agmondesham
URE, Masterton .. .. .:. Weymouth
UXBRIDGE earl of .. .. Anglesey
VAP4.ITORT viscount .. Lostwithiel
VAN HO.RIOH, P..... Drogheda
VAUGHAN, sir Rob. W. bart. Merioneths.
VERNON, Granville, G. V. .. Litchfield
VILLIERS, Tir.!',is 11 .... Hedon
VIVIAN, sir Rich. Hussey .. Windsor
VYV YAN, sir R. Rawl. bart... Cornwall
WAITHMAN, Robert .. .. London
WALKER, Joshua .... Aldeburgh
WALL, Ghas.-Baring .... Wareham
WALLACt, r.t. bon. Th. .. Weymouth


WALPOLE, hon. John King 's Lynn
WALROND, Bethel .... Sudbury
WARBURTON, Henry .... Bridport
WARD, William .... .. London
WARRENDE'R, tt. honi ir G.bt. Westbury
WEBB, Edward .. .. Gloucester
Wr L I, John .. .. Maidstone
WEMYSS, James.... Fife
WEST, Frederick R. .... enbigh
WESTENRA, hon; Henry R. Monaghansh.
WESTERN, Charles Callis .. .. Essex
WETHERELL, rt. hon. sir C. .. Hastings
WHITBREAD, Wm. Henry .. -Bedfrd
WHITBREAD, Sam. Chas. ..:. aidl iex
WHITE, Samuel .. .. LEdtimshire
WHITE, Henry ...... DublisUhre
WHITMORE, Thomas .... Bridgn*rtk
WH ITMO RE, Will. Woolryche Bridgnorth
WIGRAM, William .. ..-. e,' Ros
WILBRAHAM, Edward B. .. .. Dover
WILBRAHAM, George Stockbridge
WILKINS, Walter .. Radnorshire
WILKS, John .. ..... Sudbury.
WILLIAMS, Qwen... ... Marlow
WILLIAMS, sir Robert, bart... Bequmaris
WILLIAAS, Robert .. .. Dorokester
V [LLI ii, Thomas Peers .. iMarlow
WILLIAMS, John .. ... ..Ilchtcr
: ILILOUGHBY, Henry .. .... .NewPrk
WA ILMOT-HORTON-, R.J. Neweastle. Staff.
WILSON,-sir Robert .. ... S&,,tihwrk
WILSON, William W. C. .. Cechermouth
WILsoN, James .. .. ... .. Yorh
WILsoN, Richard F .... Yorkshire:
WIN, hon. George M... .. Maldon
WINNINGTON, sir Thos. E. lWo1rteit,,st,.
WODBHOUSE, Edmond .. ..Norfolk
Woon, Matthew .,..... London
WOOD, Thomas .. ... :..neconshire
WooD, Charles .. ...... Grimsbg
WoOD, John .... .. Preston
SWORCESTER, marquis of .. Monmouthh
WRIGHTSON, William B. .. Rftfird
WROTTESLEY, sir John bart. Staffordsh.
WYNDIAM, Wadham .. New, Satwnt.
WYNN, rt, hon. C. W.W. Montgomerys.
WYNN, sir Watkin Wmn, bt; D.nb6gh9i .
WYNNE, Owen .. .. .. .. Sl1g
WYVILL, Marmaduke .. York
YORKE, sir Joseph Sydnewy .. Ryegate
-. ( *


SPEAKER,
TUm RIGHT HON. CnA*LES .MANNERS SUTTON.






( viij )




O...j -.1:'IO U E O F C OMMONS,
IN ALIHABETICA.L ORDER OF COUNTIES, BOROUGHS, ie..

Double Returns are marked thus II 1

,ENGL-AND AND WALES.


ABINGnoN.
John Maberly.
S':AG&lINbtDSHAM.
T. T. btake,
W. T. Drake.
"-- S'r: ALEBANS.
Chir;tophEr Smith,
John. Easthope.
SAt BOROUGH.
C. 3. FnCes Clinton,
Sir Alex. Grant, bart.
ALDEBURGH.
Joshua Walker,
J. W. Croker.
ANkDOVER.
Sir John Pollen, bart.
T. A. Smith, jun.
ANcLESEA.
Earl of Uxbridge.
Ai'rlEBY.
Hon. H. Tufton,
Viset. Maitland.
.ARUNDEL.
Edw. Lombe,
John Atkins.
ASHBURTON.
Sir L'. Plk, bart.
Rt:honl:W. S. Bourne.
AYLESBURY.
Lord Nugent,
William Rickford.
BATiBIRT.
HIn. Arth.'C. Legge.

Fiederitck"Hodgson, '
Henry Alexander.
BATH.
L6rd' Jihn Thynffe,1t"' i
Earl of Brecknock.
BEATMAARIS.
Sir Rob. Williams, bart.
BBDFORbS-IfgiE.
Marquis of Tavistock,
Thomas P. Macqueen.
BrnroDs.
Lord Geo. Wtn. Russell,
William Hoery Whitbread.


GREAT BEDWIN.
Rt. hori Sir J. Nicholl,
John Jacob Buxton.
BEERALSTON.
Lord Lovaine,
Hon. P. Ashburnham.
BERKSHIRE.
Charles Dundas,
Robert Palmer.
BERWICK.
Marcus Beresford.
BEVERLEY.
John Stewart,
C. H. Batley.
BEWDLEY.
W. A. Roberts.
BISHOP'S CASTLE.
William Holmes,
Edward Rogers.
BLECHINGLEY.
Charles Tennyson.
BODMYN.
Davies Gilbert,
H. B. Seymour.
BOROUGHBR'IDGE.
George Munday,
Henry Dawkins.
BOSSINEY.
Hon. J. Stuart-Wortley,
Edward R. Tunno.
BOSTON.
G. J. Heathcote,
Neil Malcolm.
BRACKLEY.
R. Haldane Bradshaw,
Same Bradshaw.
BRtAMBsR.
John Irving,
Hon. F. G Calthorp.
BRECONSHIRE.
Thomas Wood.
BRECON.
George Gould Morgan.
BRIDGENORTH.
Thomas Whitmore,
W, W, Whitaiore.


BRIDtEBgVkf -Wa.
William Astell,
C. K. K. Tyrite.
BRIDnOiT.'
Sir H. D; G. St. Pati,
Henry Warbutton.
BRI-.TOL. '
Henry Bright, ''
Rich. HarftDavis. '
BuceRsonsXHAN6Ktni.' '
Marquis of C'ha'ndos.
Hon. Robert J. Smith.
BUCKti AM.
Sir George Nugent, bart.
Rt. hon. W. H.' Friemantle.
CALlINt''1iO.
Matthias Attwood,
Alexander Baring.
CALISE.
Hon. James Abeberomby,
Sir James Maed'nald;
CAMBRIDOEg liRE.
Lord C. S. Manners,
Lord F. G. Osborne.
CAMBRIDGE U BIVERSIT'f
Lord Palmerston,
Sir J. S. Copley.
CAMBUIDGE BOROUGH.
Fred. Wm. TreneB
M1: quis of Graham.
CAMEltFORD'.
Mark Milaalnk,
Sheldon Cradock. -
CANTElt UIY.
S. R. Lushington,
Lord Clifton.; .
CAD6T. '
Lord P. J1 H. H. .Stewart.
CARDIGAWSHIRE.
Wm. Edw. Powell.
CARDIGAN
Pryse Pryse.
CARLISLE.
Sir Philip Musgrave, hart,
Sir J. R. G. Graham, bart,
CARgARTHENSHIRE.
Hon. G. R. Rice-Treror,







*nOWA4 l iN.
John Jon vs9'"8 ,131



Lo'r I
"sd =7Ri4tF i-.





Hen. RoA" oi r
Iadif nA ljauiQR*ley.
.Dsd en;Iglulsuili&3 I



Willrahm Stti ttaa i

Visederick A iY "fe,


SHon. Rob SijW, .art.
Lordge Ban Lennox,





C'Hi" pt fidi3 I A
E CIR1F#SPM 4igIandt











Sir R. Raw. SVvlIa, ha.
t. WAhflMe.Roy














RIPhkd R.' H'shecte,.
Sh'pm 4B. FNer.

Joseph'PltI ,
HoniJit, B J406Pfrzon,
Hif.@MF'Cust. '
'*'*' r* Co- t K 0 C NO rTr.
J.H.Vibot Garlies. _
Sr.Lcas ItR.'
Sir G. H. SAi* ybart;I
D. WJoaaeR eyN
CoRte-C. s*lt.
John Bond, *: *' '
George BadkeS.
Sir R1. taw. Vyvaii, b(.
'VE- W. W. Pen'darMis.

Rikhtrd: E.I Hte~thrdfe, i
Ph'mibt 'B. Fy1er.
. '"*' CritMEA Df. *
Joseph Pletj'-l
Rober"t?8ral9

Sistsa^ik *fewti9er, btr


J. H.e6es pW
DEN A timfltE,
Sir W. ^<^i^'WU I
*Bhit I
'red ~ ~ Tdi
**g ms r


(' ( vai) )
-D'EfIIdWsiHTRE.
tod G.' A;r. H Caendist ,
Francis Muhdy '

Henry F. Prtails i&,
Samuel CrompF on.
DEvrzES.
John Pearsed,

*"DEVONiSHIR.'' |
Sir T. D. Ailandi bart,
Edm. Polltfen Bhstard.
"' DnBtdsTn.
Robert Willihms,
Hon. A. Ashley-Cooper.;
ID'onRSfTshlRr.
Edward Berk. Portman,
Henry BanIes.'
Dorve.
Edwmad B.AWilbraham,
C. P. Tho16sobl
S'. : DO VNTOR ;


,SLOaa4iDafd;w.I
Earl f ,ijftS| a
J.H,,I oley. -"
Mlichaeli BarWe,, .
And. Art kA*qqnli Ct,~

John George.Lambton,
Hon. W..,JF F. Powlett.
Dvg Ajr .
ljichail Angelo Taylor',
Sir Hlenry. kadirngq.
E. ir Loor.
.1 D. B: Elphiqr4toe,
Hon, NV. S. Liscelles.
EDIMUD. DS, tI nY Sr.
Earl of Lust6n,
Earl Jernrvh. "

Chatlee f G Wksiern,
SirEliabHarve, .

Sir C, Cocler e, bart

ExfhaW. ,dol

UtLiA W.Vauto3 ,noll

Sir-FMalI^JagI#t all,
S WiF L 4 1chAUWil
FLSiia*wainfoLt(,
Sir T~i6ftblobystyn, b t.
. 'i $ .il ,; 1, ,
Sir-a PaheLldftD 1itL ldt.


George Imyfl absmodT
HtrSHt ilesanodT

Hon. WS*oUA ,H .
M..8s:flihnevaearn9H
-**j't "S's.'iwxw1ax:)s.
Rt. hvrsiQafbu&hnol4
Charleso"SaI

Sir Clnist. OlepbthoH
G otWCsHs RSHIRE.
Lord. R tkEDHEH Lb$Baet,
Sir Berk. JWJGCi*b;kt.
M GXrMidisTER.
Edward Webb 7 taom.a
Robert-Branshyioipoer.
GRAN'THAWAt. W
Frederick J.Tatifhish,
Moant.iJ.eCh6~d ley.
GRE.ITr O GR'ii .,.
Chailes r\Vdd '
George F. HRieace.
rC E iST I IN T.' D...
Lord Strat.hayrn,
Hos.%,. e, J. e o n.

Artjiulp vr,4,
George C.i Norto)k,

Lord J,WNo;ET Marquis 4uClarmarthen.
:HAlIStIl BRE.
John Flemi ik,
ShwiWsldatjidia,-baAt.
ei HAJIwnrun .a
RtiaonAJ'. I lbrries,
Sir Nic.Cd0Bayig. Tinmdal.
HaSLEMttlDn '
!iG6rge*&ianfkmpsaon,
John Beket&
HMArSrTl'C's., *
Siri't4Wethereligknight.
,.t 'HvaItron~gwgasr.
Richad,. hlfhIf, ."
.a'runnHateolk.
John Baiist:. 'T: .,,.
T. H. Villiriks.l' b3K
I-e*aVROKMaHIRE.
Sir J. ,-6eaiMfibril,1bart.
Robert.Prieei -... .* &

Lord Epstdiqqia ea;~st
Edwardi aG Glv noH i
3 iHnaa wagrfiWRIRE.
Sir J3S9^Aegll70J
Nichb*Wd i rtir -j








aBlllftORD.
Thomas Byroni ,- ..,
Thomas% a Ihneombe..
HArrWauRn.
E. H. A:'o VIgt4,W VI
Henay,4Pi* aftootg. N
pHrepsfal.F;RIERS.
Hlowif*Vontbnby;.

OenK A.AGr Galthorpe,
HonG. 'M.: Fcteacue.

dseph.J.- Glest,
Harry B. Lot. .

Robert Hurst.
Nr HBinitieDONHfr-IE.
WilliamiH. Fellowes,
Lord Mandeville.
HUNTINGDON.
JohPg Qlert,
James Stupis.
1HYTHE.
Stewart Marjoribanks,
Sir R. T. Farquhar, bart
IPSWICHI. I
"William Haldimand,
Robert Torrens.
IVELCHESTER.
Richard Sharp,
John. Williams.
.'i IVES, ST.
Sir Chris. Hawkinm,
James .talse.
KENT.
Wm. Philip Honeywoodi
Sir E Knatelibull, bart.
KINo'sLT'sir .' ;
-*ont J. Walpole,
Lord W. C. Bentinck.
KINGSTON-UPON-H I L.
Daniel Sykes,; :
Aug. J. O'Niel.

Right hen. G. Timrney, i
Sir J. Mackintosh.
.LaNCASHIRE.
John Blacklniin ;ic i
Lord Stanleyi' ", ?f .

i J,.F. C. vthorne, ., Pi
Thomas GeeiS.ti.: :d,

James Brogdeu,7 E boJ
Hon. P. .B. Pellw. II

Lord R. Manners, ;
0. A. oLehkek *i


,, LsEICSsR. J
.SiQ.SA. Hastings, bart.
Robert Q; Cs.re. |
LEOMISSTER.l II
Lord Hotham,
Rowland Stephenson,
Thomas Bish.
LEWEs.
Sir John Shelley, bart.
Thomas R. Kemp.
LTNCOtowsHmRC.
Charles Chaplin,
Sir W. Am. Ingleby, bar .

J. N. Fazakerley,
C. D. W. Sibthorp.
LISaSARyP. *
Sir W. H. Pringl,
Lord Eliot.,

Sir George( AAmno,
George G,'V.-Vernon.
LIVERPOOL.
Gen. Gascoyne,
Rt. hon.;WiHfiskisson.
Low ow.;
William ThorhpSbn;
Robert Waithrian,
Matthew Wood,
William Ward.'
LosTWITHIEL.
Viscount V'alletort,
Hon. Edw. Cust.
LUDOERSHALL.
Hon. G. J. W. A. Ellis,
Edw. T. Foley.
LUDLOW.
Lord Clive,
Hon. Robt. H. Clive.
LYxls REGs.
Hon. Henry Fane,
John ThoWas Fane.
SLyMXvIx TON.
Walter Boyd,
Guy I. Prendergast.
MAIDSTONE.
Abrahap W. Rebarts,
John :Wells,:
,MASiot.
Hon. CGe.~;.A. Win,
T. B. Lem, d.
IMALMItSBURr.
Sir Charles Forbes, barth
John thaqesR.e: ,
i M'Ai.lToN.
Johni ChaletRamsde,
yrcpyot Yogaiuaby. .,


Earl Brucet;noT ado',
Lord Bxvdel

Owei Williams,.
Thomas P. Witilns.

Sir S.B. iMorland, bart.
Sir C:1. ^tcrif oiW)Moart.

Sir R. W. Vagthan,'bart.
MICHALAE, ST.
H. Labouchere, :'
William Leake.
,.MIDBoErsX. it
George Byng,..
S. C. Whitebread.
MTDHiRS.srr ,
John Smith,.,
Abe hmjt4ir-.,
Alisnoag i w PoR
Lord Grae ...
Arthur Chiehlster.
jIEBTEiSAP; ,i)
John Fow j.nttrkq,
James Blair, :
MoNxM9qgUapMys gi
Sir Charsiq Y qrgtvjbt.
Lord.,!0, i $.,IsIpmerset.
M. ONwO.vT..
Marquis of Worcester.
MONTOOMERYsH IRE.
Rt. hon. C. W. W. Wynn.
MONToQSER.T.
Henrylive., *..( ;) *,
MoRparn. 0
Wiliar Ord, ,i
Lord Morpeth. 'i
NEWvARK..
Sir William Heny Clinton,
Henry Willoughby.
N EcasTLE- U 'D-LIN E
Rt. hon. R. J. \W. Horton,
Richardson) Borradailek
NE wCAsTLE-trPoN rT,VYFE.
Sir M. W. RidJey, bart.,
Cuthbert Ellisoa.
NE wPT.. ..
Jonathan 3iXalp,:-
Houw QG.Q.g. MA wyn9
NEYDORT.o') 1.
Rt, hon, Georg Canning,
Hon. WVm.{C.,J,,;sqti
NSl[t4lr. j i
Thomaa Loh, % ab
Thomas 4,ioclk ,;v
NBWTQVdi.
Hudsoa Ourley, .,,,n.4
C. ., etC.BB ,l









Thoma WpilJiarm oke,
Edmond Wodehouie.
NORTH LLERTON.
Hon. Hebi. Lascelles.
NoRTH.AM PTONSFI IRE.
Wm. Rb ph Cartwright,
ViseditfMhbaftt '
NoiIeAM PTe*.
Sir G. Robinson, bat.,
W. L. Malkly.
NoRTrfMBrElnt AD,.
Hon. Henry T. Liddeli,
Matthew Bell.
NORWICH.
Nortwic.:
William iit, '
Jonathahi'Wfp ",
New4nlIWfAM fIRE.
Frank Sethero,; *
John S. Lamleyi
NorTINo'H. I i
Joseph Bin-h,
Lord RaneiBHd 4 ,' :'

Sir CG Domvfi ll ,' 4 :
Joseph Hi Stratti
.* ORTO' '.
Sir H. PFGobke;' i

Wm. Henry Ashtrst;
John FaSA.'r *
"S"fORD. -
J. I. itokhate, "
J. H. L.argston.
Ox rn D, UN IFRs&Ir .;
Right hokl Robert Peel,
Thomas G. B. B.steourt.
PEMBIROKESIiRE.
Sir John Owen, bai.
PjManoitE.
Hugh O. Owen.
P PENRYN.
David Bartay' .
William Marining.''
PETBRBOROrG 4.
James Scarlett,
Sir Robert Heron, bart.'
Pr.' RSrIEL D.
Hylton J6ti1114t,
Willianm Manhat.
PLY rOOTH.
Sir W.-T'Cnteve, bart.
SirT, B: Martin, barr.
PEY rTProw-Ea R LE.
Gibbs C. Anftedbd, r '
Sir C. WetheYpel, knight.
PURFirsE'ACr.
Thouiftd Houldstworth,
Le GaMitW. tadre.


Benjamin Lestb Lester,
Hon. W. F.'.' Ponsonby.
i PORTBlurdvTvr.
John Carter, '
Francis Baring.
PRESTON.
Hon. E. G. S. Stanley,
Johnb Wood.
QUEEIfBOROUGH.
John, Capel,
Lord Downes.''
RADNsRSHIARE.
Walter WilkinS;
RADN R.
Richard Price.
READi'N.
J. B. Monck,
George Spence.
Rt, rokl,'
Hon. Sir R. L. Dundas,
W. B. Wrigltsoiu.
Rtrnnoxn.
Thomas Duridas,
S. B. M. Bariett.'

Right hon. F. J. RobinSon,
Lan. Shadweldt -
Roesntisatii
Ralph Bernal, ;
Hon, H,, DundasJ
RoMxe, .
G. H. D. Pennant,
George W. Tapps.,
RUTI~ND.
Sir Gerard N. NotI, bart.
Sir Gilbert Heathcote, bt.
RYE.
Richard Aikrti t,
Henry Bonham:
RYEGAtr. .:
Sir J. S. Yorke,
James Cocks. '
SALOP.
Sir Rowland Hill, bart.,
John C'reset, Pelham..
SALTASIf.
Andrew Spotiiswoode.
Henry M3:.itri,.. ;
SANDWICH.
Sir E. W. C.'.: Pen,
Joseph llarryaTt.
SAtit1, NE6
Viscount Folkstone,
WV-idharm \Vvndthatn.
SARBUM,"OLD
Jamte A leanider,'
Josias Du Pre MAQKandet..


Sc Ar d6aBfii ?
Right hon. O.M: Sition;,
Hon. Edmond Phirl.

Aug. E. Ellisa; i'e. i
J. Fitzgerald. ;-7 ;

RH. Li-yc.-ter1,juiR, je i;do
E. D. Dardnpor i
SnonrHner. -
Sir C. M. pr(jbgrrt ,,, b
Henry HIpward.
Stur ,wsBt ,
Panton Corbett,
Robert A.. Slaney.
Soi r RSETSII IR E.
William Dickenson,
Sir T. B. Lethbtridti;'6irt.
SofTHAMPTOr 1 '
William Chamberlaynre,
Abel R. oDatthin. t
SoUTHwiWA '
Charles Calvert '
Sir Robert T. Wilsop.
ST r FOR DMl I kE..
Edw. John Litlleton,
Sir John Wrotttslty.
STAEFbRD.*
Ralph Benson.
NT %M fORb.
Lord Thonmas Cecil,'. :
Thomas Chapli. "
STEY Nt.4.
George R. Philips,
P. Du Cane.
Si (OCKBRI CI E.
Thoma; Grosvenor,
G. Wilbrahim.

John Wilks, '
Bethel Walrond. '"

Thonms Sherlock Goorh,
Sir W. R]owley, bhrt.
SiU Rt Iv:
Wm. Jb6eph Detnson, '
Charles N. Pallmer.
Srassei.
Walter Buttell,' '4
E.J. JCrtei. -
TAWM 1$it tI
Lord C. V. Townsh ,
W\lli.im Yates Pdel.
TA v TforCK.
Lord viscoutff-'Ebi'ftOin,
Lord W. RuseIIl.'

Henry Setlr
Williami r' ;),








Tgwsessua?.
John Edin. Dowdtvell,
John Martin.
THETPORD;.
Lord Chas. Fitzroy, jtin.
W. B. Baring.

Robert Frankland,
Robt. Greenill: Russell.
TIVERTO~.
Viscouhkt Sandon,
Right hon. Rich. Ryder.
ToTisnss.
T. Peregrine Courtenay,
Viscount Barnard.
TREGONY.
S. Lushington,
J. Brougham.
TRURo.
Lord Fitzroy Somerset,
W. E. Tomline.
WALLINGFORD.
William Lewis Hughes,
Robert Knight.
WA rs E A iM.
John Calcraft,
Charles B. Wall.
WARWICKSHIRE.
Dugdale Strat. Dugdale,
Francis Lawley,
WARWICK.
John Tomes,
Hon. sir C. J. Greville.
WELLS.
Charles Wrm. Taylor,
John Paine Tudway.
WENDOVER.
George Smith,
Samuel Smith.
WENZOCK.
Hon. J. G. W. Forester,
P. B. Thompson.
WEOBLY.
Sir G. Cockburn, bart,
Lord W. Thyane. .
WESTBURY.
Sir M. Masseh Lopez,
Rt. hon. sir G. Warrender.
W1asTLOOE.
John Buller,
Charles BuUer.
WRSTNINSTEi46
Sir Francis Bturdett. bart.
J. C. Hobhouse, : ,
WESTM4QELANE.
Viscoant tLwther,
Hon. H. CecilLow her.


(xi)
WEyMOUTH'& M 2LCOMBE
; REGIS.
Right hoa. T. Wallace,
Masterton Ure,
Thos. Fowell Buxton,
John Gordon.
WHITCHURCH.
Samuel Scott,
Hon. J. R. Townshend.
WIGAN.
Alex. Hodson,
James Lindsay.
WILTON.
John H. Penruddocke,
Edward Baker.
WILTSHIRE,
Johbn Benett,
Sir J. D. Astley.
WINCHELSEA.
Henry Brougham,.
Viscount Howick.
WINCHESTER
P. St. John Mildmay,
Sir Edward H. East.
WINDSOR.
John Ramsbottom,
Sir R. H. Vivian.
WoonsTocK.
Marquis of Blandford,
Lord Ashley.
WOOTTOW-BASSETT.
Horace Twiss,
George Phillips.
WORCESTERSHIRE.
Hon. H. B. Lygon,
Sir T. E. Winnington, bt.
WORCESTER.
T. H. H. Davies,
G. R. Robinson.
WYCOMBE.
Sir J. D. King, bart.
Sir Thomas Baring, bart.
YARMOITH.
Hon. George Anson,
C. E. Rumbold.
:YARMOUTH HANTS.
Lord Binning,
Joseph Phillimore.
i YOIKSIRE. II E
Viscount Milto, ,
Hon. Wm..Duncombe,
Richard F. Wilson,
John Marshall.
YORK.
Marmaduke Wyvill,
James Wilsonr,


[* SCQThO.
I AECEnRDLn ."
Hon. William Gordoh.
A r EJ iDE, E
Joseph Hunme.
ARGYA..ESBRIqF .
Walter Fred. Gampbel..

James :Mv~ntgomstia ,
SAYRn.' -&
Those. Fras. Kennedy.
B \Nr,,ii r. aE
Earl of Fife.
BrR wIC KSHRI i
Hon. Aut. Maitland.
CAITHNESS and BULE.
Hon. James Sinclair.
CRATI-. ,
James Balfour, ..
CROMAkTY and iis.N;
Duncan Davidei4.; ,,
I DuMtAwwosma~jLtSl.
John Campbel ..... I ;i '
DiC FRhP-aHnhtE.
Sir W. .lolhnsne Hope.
DuoM F4tLa&4.."
Wm. Robt. K. ouglta,
DYs.A ,t,aki i'.
Sir R. C. Fergusoni ': -;
E DINBUT RGIiIaR,.
Sir George Clretk bart.
ErINBIRBHi. .i
Hon.. Francis W. Grant,*
ELGI.SBlRlBPB. I ,
Right hon. W. DuBda~s .
ELGIN, &C.
Hon. Al-s3nridi r DuI.
FIFI$EHIR;
James Wemyss..
FORFARSHI.E.
Hon. Wm. R. lMaule.
FoRFAR, ',
Hon. Hugh Lindmay.
FORTROSE, &C., :
Robert Grant.
GLASGQW, &C.
Archibald Campbell. -i
HADDINaTO,,$IBIX -1
Lord John TSay.
HAEDINGPOO, & .-
Adolph. J. Dalryiple.
I N L R KLT NG, ,&'C
Robert Downie.
INVERN ESS-LEHRE; .
Right hon. C. Grant.
SKiNCeRDINErSHEI. '
Hon. Hugh Arlbthtit.








KritWMtfit1B8f E&MA-
.* if l lBtiti .
George &L.GaIahan .
Ki ~mFiLDUG HT.
Robert C. erPs5snn.
Kl Ka .LL.,&C.
Siru furies, bart.
,'" AARtl I r.
Lord Arch. H1miilton.
LIN-lr'HGOWsiH I e.
Hortf.str'Alek. Hope.
ORKNEY and SHETLAND-
SHIRE. __.__
Hon. G. H. L. Dundas.
PEEBLESHIRE.
SilJM iWtbWimery4act,
PERTHSHI RE,
iSr GObrge Murray.
iT I IENFEWSHTRnE.
4lohn Maxwell, :
R oss i I .,
'rS.Jw. Mackecqiq. P

3lenry F1. Scott.' ,;doY
.... PELKIRKSHIRE.
nlliam Elliot Lockhart.
rSELKIRK,, C.
[ 'ImTIR .ay. mt .

pnr omeoheDruniuqn
_.SUTHERLANDSH IRE.
J4Wd F. L. Gower.
SWiTONS1IRE.
Sir W. Maxwell, 6rt.
WIGTON, O .
John H. Lowther.


IRELAND.
ANTRIM.
Hon. John B. R O'Neil,
Edm. Macnaghten.
ARMAGH., '
Hon. H. Caulfield.
t3Wrles Bordnlow. ';
ARMAGH BOROUGH.
lBte VaH.'COulbirn.
aYVau. aL ILOiE. JE
Ritard Handcock.
P-AB Mt BRID!d e.
P"* B-Ab6tJRAST.Bad.
.@drl'df'elfalk. '
CARLOWSHIRE.
Henry Bruen,
Thomas Kavanagh.
CabLOw.
Lor4 Tqllamore,


CaRsiennflfs.
Sir Ar. Chichester,bart.f
'r' .CASMILLL.
Eben. J.,C'l7atjr;'
CAVANSaiREi'.
Henry Maxwell.
A. Saundersom. r
CLARE.
Rt. hon. W. V. Fitzgerald,:i
Lucius O'Brien.
CLONMEL.
Jas. H. M. Dawson.
r _... QL.,COIERAINER
Sir John Brydges.
CORK.
Videount Ennismore, .
Hon. Robert King.,
Con nt;R Clt.
Sir N. C. Colthurst, bart.
DONEG A LSH IRE.
L"t. gen. Geo. V. Hart,
'Earl b Mountgharles.
S DowksHrrTR. "
Lord Arthur.Hill,
tLord"Cattprhi
"'Dow w= rrP.lC.
J. W. MlaxsWfl:
.' "D'ROGUt I '
P. Va' Homrig:h
DBLINSHIR. r.
Rich. Wogan Talbot,
Henry White. ':"!:_
.DlBLIIN, CITY.
George Moore,
'Henry Grattan
DUBLIN, INIVERSvIt.
Rt. hon. W. C. Plunkett.
DtlND.1iLK.
Charles Barclay.
DUNGANNON.
Hon. Thomas Knox.
DUNGATIVAN.
Hon. George Lamb.

Thomas F. Lewi3s.
ENN SK I LLENr.
Richard Alagenis, sen.
FERMA. N AO'HStiIrR E.
ren. M. Archdall,
Viscount Cory:
G.ILW. YS II ItE E 1 ) "
James Daly,
Richard Martin. i", '
SGA LW A Y.
James O'Hara.
KERRYSHIRE.
Right hon. M. Fitzgerald,
William Hare,


Robert Lt7; h ..
KILIEN'N aI RE. ,-.
Hon. C. H.ue r-( e
Lord Dimhib k.iY
KtIL'tkNAY? .,oH
J. Dohertyo.iJtuH .H A
KINs C@0pNTY.
Thomas Bernard oS
Lord Oxmantown.
KINSALE.
-John Russell.
LEITRIM.
Lord Clements,
Samuel White. '
LTMERTCK.
Hon. Rich. H. Fitgibb6ri.
T. Lloyd.
L LIMERICK, CITY.
Thomas Spring Ribe.
.- LISBRllnw. -
:Henry Meynell.
S LONDONDOtRr"
George Robert B "b !
Alexander Robert de*WAt.
I.ON DONDER I ffI'C TY
Rt. hon. sir G. Fifzgerdld
Hill, bart.
SLo N O InRDS T 'I E:
G. J. visc. Fotbes.
BSirG. R. Fetherstone', bati.
S LOWTH91s IA'.
JohhiLblie Foster,
Alexander Dawson.
MALLOW.
Charles D. O. Jephson.
MAYO.
James Browne,
Lord Bingham.
MEATHSHIRE.
Earl ofBective,
Sir M. Somerville, bart.
i :i 1.. IMONAGHAN.
Hon. H. R. Westenra,
'E.J J. ShivAe'..)A 0r, ,',\:

Hon.' J. Ht Klnox; 'i* ..
PORTARLINGTQ9t


Sir H-nry Parnelli bart.
Sir'Chbss Heny -Coote.
RoscoMMONsAntiK
Arthur French,
Hon. R. King.
NEW Ross, TOWN,
William Wigram,








Edw. Syrlge Codper '"
Hon. Henry Ki.ig.
SLIGO.

TsgjpE,4^.Rr. ;
Hon. EIrA.-fEittie.
J. H. Hutchinson, &i' <
TRJ LEr.:
James Cuff.


( xiii ")

William Stewart, ,
Hon. H. T. Lowry Corry.
WAT iTORID.
Richard Power,
H. V. Stuart. -
WATERPORD, CITY.
Rt. H. sir J. Newport, bart.
WESTMEATH.
Gust. Rochfort,
H. M. Tuite.


v WEXrvu TWHa ,.
R. ShaplIdCOamew,
ViscouutSINepibrA ag9?wS

Henry EvkAis. II

Hon. Grand, v. V
James OratLPL .;. ,

Hon. George PonsoAby. it

v ,. H .) .to,
+;,+ :+ .+ +: 3.+


The NUM

BefQrdphire
Berkshire
Buckingham
Cambridgesl
Cheshire...
Cornwall .
Cumberlad
Derbyshiwe
Devonshire.
Dorsetshire.
*.uraam ...
Essex .....
Gloucestersh
Herefordshi
Hutfngdonir
Hunlingdon


[BER of MEMBERS sent by each Cqunty, &c. toPar- i
,....... 41 Kent .............0 Suffolk- .. .,..
......... 9 Lancashire....... 14 Surrey ........
shire .... 1 4 Leicestershire. .... pl'. 4 Sussex .. ..' .
ire....... 6 Lincolnsire ..,,.:. Il Warwickshir ..
......... 4 Middle sex ...'..'r. ', Westmdrel4ffd,'4
......... 42' 3lonmouthshie.e .... 3 Wiltsh'lr ....
.,,...... 66 Norfolk ........ 1... 1 Worde trsHlir'
.+.... 4, Northamptonshire .....' Yorkshire
......... 26 Northumbetland .. 8 o: :.[b;J,
...... ., 20' Nottinghani shire. ,. .8 !'" '".
....... 4 Oxfordshir ..... .... Cinque'oit~
.,,.,.;8.i 8 Rutlands&hire'..., ..., 2 Wales..........
lire .. Shropshire .. .. 12 Scotlaind...... t
re .......'. 8 Somersehire .. .... 18 Irelnid .....
g.......,, 61 Hampiree... ..... 6 '
ire .... 4' Staffordshird,., ... 1 Tota .', '.'
Members for ENGLAND and WAiES; ..... 3
.. '. SCOTLAND ,5 *.
.. ..... .....IsrBLAND ... .............. 0
: ; TOTAL.. ..-..-658---


inmen.:


p... 1




...

16

,o::;


I F'H. "olna
'I, ,-. : '. .- k--{g(,,'.oH

,; /CHiIE OFFICERS OF THE HOUSEE, ,:aA

(Chi.f Clfrk, JOUN HNRY LEY, Esq. Clerls cfi, t Journals an : i,-.
Clerk AssisaA4, JonH RtIIM.AN, Esq. WjITrAt Esq. 8 A
Second ClerMiAnais/aL,: ILLIAAI LE.y, Clerks cf the lflj .f ii fItn jgoD
Eqa.i.S.. SnR.,CE Esq., ar,4 DAVID
Clerk of. Qgrega,t Urivileges ad, j. O '.., ,,If
zteigwOx tt ,Twa, Escp --'- Serweant at $rms, HrN. Ssq.M -
Pri'l. Cam. Clks., E, .Sr, pcrv. J. BIN- C('lplain, The Rev. Eyv I PTTON.
SON. A. U BIrAtS, andJ.F DORINOTON, ,S-cretary to1/the Speaker, i
Eyqrs.- .. ..m.f .Esq.
inJ ,E IH -
..- i in ss nodT
,,:>;'T,.;;-,>;'





t, X )


SO,., OFFICERS OF STATE.

(Nov. 1820.)


Earl of Harrowby .....
Earl of Eldon .........
Earl of' Westmorelautd ..
Earl ol Liverpool .......
fight Hon. F, J. Robinaso

Lord Viscount Melville
Duke of Wellington ...
Right Hon. RabebatsRe6;i
Right Hpno :qqorgp Cann
Earl Bathurst...;. ...

Right Hon.. C. W W. W;

Right Hon. Lord Bexley.
Riglt Hon. W. Huakisson

Viscount Silldoui .....


Viscount Palmerston ...
Right Hon. W. V, fitzger
Lord Frti.dr;:k Montague
Viscount BIiesford .....
S. R. Jtshington, Esq.
J. C. berries, Eq......
Right Hon. Thomas Wall
Right ''n. Charle Grant
Right Hon. Ch. Arbuthnol
Duke of NIRjniruoi ,.
Marquis Conyngham ..
Duke of Dorst ..,..
Sir Charles Wetherell, Int


MINISTRY OF ENGLAND.
Lord President of the Council.
... Lord High Chancellor.
S,, Lord Privy Seal,
... First Lord of the Treasury (Prime Minister).
i Ch/.iillor ind Under Treasurer f. the E.4pAcifpr,
,and Chancellhr of the Exchequerfoar Ireland,
F. first Lord of the Admiralty.
Master General of the Ordnance.
&.,. Secretary ofState for the Home Departwmet, ,
ing Secretary of Statefor Foreign.Affairs,. .,
Secretary of State for the Department of War and the
Colonies.
yn President sf.t fe Board of Control for.the Afairs of
India. .
Chancellor of qhe Duchy of Lancaster.
S Treasurer of ,e Navy, and President of th Apoard of
Trade.

The above formed the Cabinet.

Secretary at War.
ald Paymaster General of the Forees.
Postmaster General.
Lieut.-general of the Ordnance.'
S Joint Secretaries of the Treasury.
lace Master of the Mint.
t. Vice Prc~iduit of the Board of Trade
t.. First Commissioner of Woods and Forests.
... Lord Chamberlpin,
.. Lord Steward. .'.
.. Master of the Horse. :/-
A.. Attorney GCt,( r.l.
Solicitor General.. ,


MINISTRY OF IRELAND;


Marquis Wellesley ........
Lord Manners ............
Right Hon. Henry Goulburn
Right Hon. Sir G. Fitz. Hill
Right Hon. Wm. C. Plunkett
Henry Joy, Esq ...........


Lord Amherst ............ Governor General of India.


'Ar
9 .9,1rJ~


Lord Lieutenant.
Lord High Chancellor.
Chief Secretary.
Vice Treasurer of the Exchequer
Attorney General.
Solicitor General.






( xv )


As in adverting to any Proceedings in Parliament,' the Reader must
have frequent occasion to refer to HANSARD'S PARLIAMENTARY
HISTORY," and to the Two Series of HANSARD'S PARLIAMENTARY
DEBATES;" the subjoined TABLES, which exhibit at one view the
period comprised in each volume of those Works, will be found very
useful.


A CHRONOLOGICAL TABLE
Shewing the A. D. and the A. R. in which the
Thirty-six Volumes of HANSARD'S PARLIAMEN-
Trra HrTTORY OF 'ENGaLAN respectively com-
mence and conclude.

VOL. I 6 WM. I 1072 to 22 JAMES I 1624
II1 CHAs. I 1625 .. 18 CHAs.. I 1642
III 18- I1642 12 II1660
IV 12- II 1660 .. 4 JAMEII 1688
V 4 JAS. II 1688 13 WD. III 1702
VI 1 ANNE 1702 .. 13 ANNE 1714
S VII 1GEo. I 1714.. 8 Go. 1722
VIII 9 1722 6 GE. II 1733
IX 6 GE. II 1733 10 1737
X 10-- 1737, 12- 1739
XI 13 -- 1739. 14- --1741
XII 14 1741 .. 16-- 1743
XIII 16 1743 .. 20-- 1747
XIV 20 1747 26 1753
XV 26 1753 .. 4 GEo. III 1764
XVI 5 GEo. III 1765 .. 11 1771
XVII 11 1771 .14 -1774
XVIII 15- 1774 17-- 1777
XIX 17-- -1777 19- 1778
XX 19- 1778 20 1780
XXI 20 1780 .. 21 1781
XXII 21 1781 22- 1782
XXIII 22 1782 24 -- 1783
XXIV 24-- 1783 .. 25 1785
XXV 25- 1785 .. 26 1786
XXVI 26 1786 28 1788
XXVII 28 1788 .. 29 1789
XXVIII 29__ 1789 .. 31 1791
XXIX 31 1791 .. 33 1792
XXX 33 1792 .. 34 1794
XXXI 34 1794 .. 35 -1 179.I.
XXXII 35_ 1795 37 !797
XXXIII 37__ 1797 .. 39 17
XXXIV 39__ 1798 .. 40 i-lls
XXXV 40 1800 .. 41 1801
XXXVI 42-- 1801 .. 4-- -- 1803


A CHRONOLOGICAL TABLE
Shewing the A.D. and the A. R. in which the
Volumes of the First and Second Series of
IHANsARD's PaRLAMEDTARY DrBArrs respec-
tively commence and conclude. ;


VOL. I-II
III-V
VI-VII
VIII-] X
X-_XI
XII-XIV
XV-XVII
XVITT-XX
XXI--XIll
XXIV-XXVI
XXVII-XXVII1
XXIX-XXXI
XNXII-XXXIV
XXXV-XXXVJ
XXXVII-XXXVIII
XXXIX--X
XLI


44 ;eoo. ll 1803/4
45-- In05
46- 1806
47- 0617,
48-- ?1808
49 1809

"2- 1812
53 -.1812/13 -
54 ........ 1818/14
55- 1814/15
56- 1816
57-- 1817
58 -. 1818 .,
59 -- 1919
601 I / I. O


VOL. I-III 1 GEb. IV" Iis'
IV-V 2-- -1892
VI-VII 3 -- 1822 .
VIII-IX 4 -- 1823
X-XI 5--- ISf4
XII-XIII 6 I.2
XIV-XVI 7 -- '1826 -
XVII 8 --- r ,- ,1827,
XVIII-XIX 9--- 88, ,

AN ANALYTICAL DIGEST,
Comprising the Contents of the above Sixty
Volumes, is in hand


p 7*


S'irot, ,etor '









HANSARD'S



Parliamentary Debates


During the THIRD SESSION of the EIGHTH PARLIAMENT
of the United Kingdom of GREAT BRITAIN and IRELAND,
appointed to meet at Westminster the 5th of February,
1829, in the Tenth Year of the Reign of His Majesty
GEORGE THE FOURTH.


HOUSE OF LORDS.
Thursday, February 5, 1829.
KING'S SPEECH ON OPENING THE
SESSION.] The Session was this day
opened by Commission. The Lords Com-
missioners were Lord Chancellor Lyndhurst,
the Duke of Wellington, Earl Bathurst, the
Earl of Shaftesbury, Lord Ellenborough.
The Usher of the Black Rod having sum-
moned the Commons, the Speaker, accom-
panied by a numerous train of Members,
appeared at their Lordships' bar; when
the Lord Chancellor proceeded to read His
Majesty's Speech to both Houses, as
follows:-
"My Lords and Gentlemen,
His Majesty commands us to inform
you, that he continues to receive from his
Allies, and generally from all Princes and
States, the assurance of their unabated
desire to cultivate the most friendly rela-
tions with His Majesty.
Under the mediation of His Majesty,
the preliminaries of a treaty oi peace be-
tween his Imperial Majesty the Emperor
of Brazil and the Republic of the united
provinces of Rio de la Plata have, been
signed and ratified.
His Majesty has concluded a Conven-
tion with the King of Spain for the final
settlement of the claims of British and
VOL. XX. { ,s.


Spanish subjects, preferred under the
Treaty signed at Madrid, on the 12th of
March, 1823.
"His Majesty has directed a copy of
this Convention to be laid before you;
and His Majesty relies upon your assist-
ance to enable him to execute some of its
provisions.
"His Majesty laments that his diplo-
matic relations with Portugal are still
necessarily suspended.
"Deeply interested in the prosperity
of the Portuguese Monarchy, His Majesty
has entered into negotiations with the
Head of the House of Braganza, in the
hope of terminating a state of affairs
which is incompatible with the permanent
tranquillity and welfare of Portugal.
t His Majesty commands us to assure
you, that he has laboured unremittingly to
fulfil the stipulations of the Treaty of the
6th of July, 1827, and to effect, in concert
with His Allies, the pacification of Greece,
The Morea has been liberated from
the presence of the Egyptian and Turkish
forces.
"This important object has been accom-
plished by the successful exertions of the
naval forces of His Majesty and of, His
Allies, which led to a Convention with
B





3 King's Speech. [LOT
the Pacha of Egypt; and, finally, by the
skilful disposition and exemplary conduct
of the French, army, acting by the com-
mands,of his Most Christian Majesty, on
the behalf of the Alliance.
The troops of his Most Christian Ma-
jesty ha ing completed the task assigned
to. them by the Allies, have commenced
their:return to France.
It is with great satisfaction that His
Majesty informs you that, during the
Whole of these operations, the most cordial
union has subsisted between the forces of
the three Powers by sea and land.
His Majesty deplores the continuance
of hostilities between the Emperor of
Russia and the Ottoman Porte.
His Imperial Majesty, in the prosecu-
tion of those hostilities, has considered it
necesfry to resume the exercise of his
belligerent rights in the Mediterranean,
and has established a blockade of the
Dardanelles.
From the operation of this blockade,
those dommetcial enterprises of His Ma-
jesty's subjects have been exemipted which
were undertaken upon the faith of His
Majesty's declaration to his Parliament,
respecting the neutrality of the Mediter-
ranean Sea.
Although it has become indispensable
for His Majesty and the King of France to
suspend the co-operation of their forces
with those of his Imperial Majesty, in con-
sequence of this resumption of the exercise
of his belligerent rights, the best under-
standing prevails between the three
Powers in their endeavours to accomplish
the remaining objects of the Treaty of
London.

"Gentlemen of the House of Commons,
"We are commanded by His Majesty
to acquaint you, that the Estimates for
the current year will forthwith be laid
before you. His Majesty relies on your
readiness to grant the necessary Supplies,
with a just regard to the exigencies of the
-Piblic serice, ind to the economy which


King's Speech.


His Majesty is anxious to enforce in every
department of the state.
His Majesty has the satisfaction to
announce to you the continued, improve-
ment of the Revenue. The progressive
increase in that branch of it 'which is
derived from articles of internal coisump-
tion, is peculiarly gratifying to His Ma-
jesty, as affording a decisive indication of
the stability of the national resources, and
of the increased comfort and prosperity of
His people.

"My Lords, and Gentlemen,
"The state of Ireland has b'en the
object of His Majesty's continued solici-
tude.
His Majesty laments that in that part
of the United Kingdom an Association
should still exist which is datlgetrus to the
public peace, and inconsistent Qith the
spirit of the constitution; which keeps
alive discord land ill-will amongst. >His
Majesty's subjects; and which must, if
permitted to continue, effectually obstruct
every effort permanently to improve the
condition of Ireland.
His Majesty confidently relies on the
wisdom and on the support of His Parlia-
ment; and His Majesty feels assured, that
you will commit to him such powers as
may enable His Majesty to maintain His
just authority.
His Majesty recommends that, when
this essential object shall have been ac-
complished, you should take into your
deliberate consideration the whole con-
dition of Ireland; and that you should
review the laws which impose civil dis-
abilities on his Majesty's Roman Catholic
subjects.
You will consider whether the removal
of those disabilities can be effected con-
sistently with the full and permanent se-
curity of our establishments in Church
and State, with the maintenance of the
Reformed Religion established by law,
and of the rights and privileges of the
Bishops and of the Clergy of this realm,


IDS, ]





4i Address on the [ Fan g. ] King'$ Speech. (
ati, of the Churhes committed to their vations whih he should find it necessary
charge. to odt r to their lordships, he assured them
e are institutions which m t ever he would confine himself, as much as pos-
Those are institutions which must ever immediate subject of discus
sible, to the immediate subject of discus-
be held sacred in this Protestant kingdom, sion; namely, the Speech of his Majesty.
sd whibh it is the duty and the determi- In looking to our foreign relations it wan
nation:of His M.jesty to preserve inviolate, true that his Majesty was not able, as on
His Majesty most earnestly recom- numerous former occasions, to congratulate
mends to you to enter upon the considera- their lordships on any signal success
achieved by our arms; but he was enabled
tio of a subject of such paramount im- to do what was much better, and more ad-
portance, deeply interesting to the best vantageous to the real interests of the coun-,
feelings of His people, and involving the try-to congratulate his parliament on the
tranquillity and concord of the United continuance of peace, and on the cordial
Kingdom, with the temper and the modera- unanimity which existed between his
tion which will best ensure the successful Majesty and his allies. The fear eiter
tained by many of their lordships, and
issue of your deliberations. amongst others, by himself, that the go,
vernment would not be able to maintain
AnDREss ON T'HE KING's SPEECI.] the wise coalition which had been formed
His Majesty's Speech having been again to preserve the peace of Europe, had hap-
read by the Lord Chancellor, and also by pily proved unfounded; and the country
the Clerk at the table, not only continued to enjoy peace, but to
The.Marquis of Salisbury rose to move enjoy it in a manner which afforded the
an humble Address to his Majesty, in best reasons for concluding that it was not
answer to his most gracious Speech. The likely to be disturbed. Whatever opinion
noble marquis spoke in so low a tone of noble lords might entertain as to the wio-
voice, that the greater part of what fell dom or policy of the treaty of the 6th of
from him was totally inaudible below the July 1827, it could not but be gratifying
bar. He commenced by stating how fully to their lordships to learn that the allied
sensible he was of the necessity there was forces, without any further exertion of
for claiming their lordships' indulgence in hostile power, had cleared the Morea of
offering himself to their notice on this oc- the Egyptian and Turkish forces. By the
easion, and that this indulgence was convention entered into between the allied
rendered the more necessary as the Speech powers and the pacha of Egypt, and by
on which he was about to move an Address the services of the French forces acting on
referred to such an extended variety of behalf of the allies, the pacification of
subjects. The embarrassment which he Greece hadbeen accomplished, theTurkish
felt in addrt.sin' their lordships on this army had abandoned the Morea, and
occasion was stil further increased by the Greece was now free; and it remained for
reference made, in the latter part of his her to show herself worthy of the name
Majesty's Speech, to a question involving she bore, and of the generous efforts that
such important considerations, and on had been made in her behalf. His Ma-
which there was such a diversity of opi- jesty's Speech adverted to the continuance
nions, so many shades of difference, and of hostilities between the emperor of Rus-
even between persons who apparently sia and the Ottoman Porte, in terms with
agreed on the principles on which the which it was impossible that their lord-
question ought to be argued; that he ships should not concur. His rights, as a
feared that, even if he touched on it ever belligerent, rendered it necessary for his
so lightly, he might provoke irritation, and imperial majesty, the emperor of Russia,
give rise to angry discussions, which he to establish a blockade of the Dardanelles,
was most anxious to prevent. He sine which certainly produced effects on our
merely deprecated any premature discus, commerce in the Mediterranean much to
sion on this subject; for he conceived that be regretted; but, with respect to the
nothing could tend more to excite angry step taken by the emperor of Russia, al-
passions, and to throw obstacles in the lowance should be made for his rights as
way of the final settlement of the great a belligerent; and his Majesty had been
question, than angry discussions within graciously pleased to communicate, that
the wallsof parliament, iJ the obse- our go~aramwnt, had ~aken thv e steps
B2






King's Speech. 8


which in duty it was bound to take to pro-
tect, his Majesty's subjects who had en-
gaged in commercial enterprises, on the
faith of the previous declaration made to
parliament,, from the operation of the
blockade, notwithstanding the continuance
of hostilities between the Porte and the
emperor of Russia.-In taking a view of
our foreign relations the only subjects
which did not offer matter for congratula-
tion were the unfortunate hostilities be-
tween Russia and the Ottoman Porte,
and the unsettled state of Portugal. In
alluding to the latter country, he did not
think it was necessary, or that it would
become him, to speak in terms of repro-
bation of the person now at the head of
the government of Portugal. The con-
duct of persons at the head of a govern-
ment must be always governed by the par-
ticular circumstances of the country to be
governed; and their lordships had only to
hope,; that the negotiations entered into
between his Majesty and the head of the
house of Braganza would lead to an ad-
justment of differences, and promote the
permanent tranquillity and prosperity of
country with which England had been
so long and so closely allied. In reverting
to this topic, there was one subject which
he thought might fairly be urged as matter
of congratulation, which was, that we
were bound by no treaty to interfere with
the internal arrangements ofi Portugal.
Without referring more in detail to our
foreign relations he might conclude what
he had to say on that subject by observ-
ing, that we were now at peace, and that
there was every prospect of the continu-
ance of that blessing, as his Majesty con-
tinued to receive from all foreign powers
assurances of amity, and of their desire to
cultivate the most friendly relations with
him. Before he took leave of this branch
of the subject, he had one other observa-
tion to make, which was, to congratu-
late their lordships and the country that
the animosity which existed' in former
times between us and a powerful neigh-
bour was now entirely at an end. We
were now in the enjoyment of peace,
which -was unlikely to be disturbed; the
commerce of the country was placed on a
surer footing; and those branches of the
revenue which best indicated the flourish'-
ing state of the country were "on the
inorease.r-Fr6m the pleasing prospect
whichh ,England piesented, both as rew-
spected:,har ,internal prosperity and her


foreign relations, he was compelled to
turn to a part of the united empire which
presented a darker and less- agreeable
prospect-he meant to Ireland.,: fThat un-
happy country still continued in a stdte of
irritation and disturbance, which presented
a miserable contrast with the tranquillity
and peace which pervaded every other
part of the empire. An Association had
been established there under, the specious
pretence of obtaining an extension of pri-
vileges for his Majesty's Roman Catholic
subjects; but the course of proceedings
which this self-elected body adopted was
dangerous to liberty, and entirely incon-
sistent with the principles of the British con-
stitution. ThisAssociationhadnothesitated
tolevy taxes, and to exercise a kind, of legis-
lative control over the feelings and conduct
of the people of Ireland; and it was the more
to be reprobated, as it was assisted by the
power of the Catholic priesthood, which
was but too often applied to the support
of the Association, in proceedings which
did not promote the tranquillity of the
country, but engendered religious ani-
mosity and excited the worst passions of
the people. There could be no doubt
that, since the existence of the Association,
party feeling had risen to a greater height
than it had ever before done in Ireland. The
names of Catholic and Protestant had now
become thewatchword of party, andreligion
was made the pretence for measures which
wereanything but Christian. Suchbeingthe
state of Ireland, he was warranted in say-
ing that the occasion was extraordinary,
and that it required extraordinary mea-
sures to meet it. Their lordships would
remember, that some years ago an at-
tempt had been made to put down the
Catholic Association, but that attempt
had not been successful; the measures
then adopted proved insufficient, and their
lordships were now called upon to :grant
extraordinary powers to his Majesty,' to
enable him to carry into effect ,the
object he had in view, which was the
complete suppression of that body, the
existence of which had been so inimical
to theprosperity and tranquillityof Ireland.
He had no doubt that their lordships
would give their ready conference
to any measures introduced by his Majes-
ty's ministers,, for the effectuation of ,this
most desirable object. After.that Aiso-+
eiation, shallhave been put down, his Ma-
jecty recommended their lordshipi to take
[into their deliberate consideration the


Address on the


[LORDS, ]






9 Address on the [ FE
whole condition of Ireland, particularly
the laws which imposed civil disabilities
on his:Majesty's Roman Catholic subjects.
He.'knew that, by the mention of this
subject, widee field for discussion was
opened. He had already adverted to the
difficulties surrounding the discussion of
the question; and he repeated, that he
confidently hoped their lordships would
avoid entering on the discussion of the
question, until some specific measure
should have been introduced. In voting
for the Address with which he should con-
clude, their lordships would merely ex-
press their intention to take the subject
into their consideration. They would not
pledge themselves to vote for any particu-
lar measure : and, in point of fact, the
Address which he should move, would go
no further than strictly to pledge their
lordships to a consideration of the subject.
For his own part, though anxious for the
adjustment of the Catholic question, he
had no hesitation in stating, that he would
never consent to repeal the laws now in
force, unless it could be done with full and
ample security to the Established Church.
He felt it the more necessary to make this
declaration, as he felt strongly the neces-
sity of removing the disabilities under
which the Roman Catholics laboured ; but
he would never consent to any measure
which granted power to the Catholics at the
expense of the Protestant establishment.
Unless such securities were introduced as
he thought absolutely necessary to the
safety of the Protestant establishment, he
would never consent to Catholic emanci-
pation. He had troubled their lordships
with his own opinions on this subject, be-
cause he wished to be understood as re-
serving: to himself the right of voting
against any measure which might be intro-
duced for the relaxation of the penal laws,
if it was not accompanied with securities ;
and he wished to guard against its being
imputed to him that, by moving an ad-
dress.pledging their lordships to take the
subject into consideration, he in any de-
gree pledged himself to support any spe-
cific measure. In his :understanding of
his. Majesty's Speech,, it by no means
called'upone their lordshipsto pledge them-
selves'to adbpt:any particular:measure ; -
and, Ior his own pa3t.. hle repeated, that
he; iould not be a patty to any measure
of enmacipation, unless it wasiguardediby
ample securities.- All that thlir lordships'
were called upon for, then, was to pledge


Kilg's Rpeed~.


themselves to take the question into.consi-
deration ; and he hoped that those: of
their lordships who would refuse to pledge
themselves to that extent were few'in
number. He begged to remind theirlord-
ships that the question of Catholic eman-
cipation was now brought forward under
circumstances very different from those
under which it had previously been brought
forward, when the person introducing
the measure claimed for the Catholics as.a
right, what parliament would only con-
cede to them as a favour, and what it
could never concede unless some measure
was, at the same time,-introduced, which
rendered the removal of those disabilities
consistent with the Coronation Oath, and
with the security of the Church. Establish-
ment. He was aware that he had offered
no argument to their lordships to induce
them to adopt an Address in accordance
with this part of his Majesty's Speech.-
He would not attempt to offer any argu-
ment, for he wished their lordships to
adopt it solely on the ground, that it :had
been recommended from the Throne. He
preferred this course, not only because he
trusted that it would prevent a discussion
by which a considerable deal of warmth
and passion might be excited, but because
he conceived it to be a mark of respect due
to the sovereign, and that their lordships
would best show a proper confidence in,
and attachment to, the monarch by pledg-
ing themselves to take the subject into
consideration, without urging any argu..
ment in support of that step, other than
that it was in accordance with the desire
of his Majesty. He could not sit down
without again expressing his opinion' that
a discussion of the question before any
specific measure was before the House
would only tend to excite angry feeling
and to produce bad effects. In the obser-
vations he had made, he was' well aware
he had done little justice to the points he
had touched upon; but he hoped he had
succeeded in, his earnest desire of giving
expression to his sentiments, without say-
ing any thing which could be construed
into an intention of provoking irritable
feeling or angry discussion. The noble
marquis concluded by moving an Address,
which, as usual, was an echo of hisiMa-
jesty's Speech.- [See Commons, p. 53.1]!
,..The Earl of I/lllow, said :--My lords,
in risingto second ie Address, which Iias
just been moved&by the.noble tiarulaisva;
feel great satisfaction in considering that


r. 5.]






ii Addirss ot de [LORDS, ] King's Spet e. I0
much will not be expected nor desired of July, 1827, his Majesty acqaisir s us
fromme to recommend it for yourlordships' he has laboured unremittingly o filllfil
adoption. The various topics alluded to The hostilities between Tuirkttfnd'tti#aal
by his Majesty in his Speech, are of such are, unfortunately, continue~: but'Qitii
* nature as to justify a more experienced satisfactory to know, that: the treaty hhs
individual than myself in dilating upon been so far carried into '6ff~t t, that tle
them ; but I feel that it would ill become Morea has been berated from thpil-
me to trespass on your lordships' attention sence of the Turkish and Egyptian forces.
further than by merely alluding to a few of It is pleasing, my lords, to see how this
them. There is one, however, which I has been accomplished. The :fbreeg of
cannot pass by without remark, connected England, who have been opposed to those
with ourforeign relations. It is a subject of other countries, were now united with
of great satisfaction to know, that this these countries, heart and hatd, in bring-
country is at peace with the whole of ing freedom to a struggling people, and
Europe ; and that from the assurances leaving them in such a condition to
whichhis Majesty continues to receive from enable them to lay the foundation of their
his Allies, and generally from all Princes own future glory. With respect to our
and States, we may confidently trust to internal affairs, We have arriedl at State
a continuance of that blessing. My lords, of' improvement; and, notwithstanding
under the mediation of his Majesty, the the great taxation which has been retioved
preliminaries of a peace has been con- within the last few years, with a viewi of
eluded between the emperor of Brazil and relieving the people, this has been ateci-t
the Republic of the United Provinces of polished. I come now to that portion'of
Rio de la Plata; and by that means a se- his Majesty's Speech which relates to the
curity has been afforded to our commerce affairs of Ireland. Standing here, my
with those countries. A convention has lords, as a representative of that country,
been entered into with the king of Spain, and feeling, as I naturally do, a lively inter-
by which the long-founded claims of many est in her welfare; I must say, it is with
of his Majesty's subjects will be examined more than ordinary feelings, and vI ith more
and adjusted, and thus a species of com- than ordinary satisfaction, that have
plaint, which has occasioned some differ- heard the recommendation respecting Ire-
ence between the subjects of both countries land. Hitherto, whenever the affairs fthat
will be removed. His Majesty laments unhappy country have been brought before
thatour diplomatic relations with Portugal parliament, it has been either to deplore
are at present suspended ; but it is a satis- the wretchedness that existed there, or by
faction to know that his Majesty has en- new acts of coercion, to attempt to put
tered into negotiations with the Head of down the spirit of dissatisfaction; but naw
the House of Braganza, and that there is a a new, and a very different couims is about
hope of terminating a state of affairs to be pursued; and at last hr' people may
incompatible with the permanent tranquil- hope for that great coheiliatory mbasure,
lity and welfare of Portugal. There is no which has been so long .ought for, and
man, my lords, at least there is no British petitioned for, but till now in vtin. That
subject-who must not feel a strong inter- measure so long desired by a large portion
est in the welfare of that country which of the subjects of the United Empite'-so
has been so long the close ally and friend often forcibly demanded-'so eloquently
of England. From the negotiations pleaded for, by some of the noblest and
which have been entered upon with the greatest statesmen this country ever pro-
head of the House of Braganza, it is evi- duced, is not only to be brought before
dent that his M3ajesty's ministers have not your lordships, supported by his Maajesty's
been idlespectators of the disputes which ministers, but is to emanate from them,,
exist in Portugal: they have used every recommendedby the -ore reign, in a Speech
means in their power; not, indeed, by from the Throne. It is true that another
intimidation or armed interference, but measure has been recommended, airhd f a
by those methods which one nation may different nature: but surely every just
always properly exercise towards another; thinking man in the kingdom, must long
namely, by friendly counsel and active since have felt convinced, that the Catholic
negotiation to terminate the present unfor- Association mrst bb suppressed. Under
tunate state of affairs in that country.- its banleful influence, al the ties hk.ch bind
The stipulatons of the Ieay o tUhe tih society together have been severed, and






13 Address oo Ae


SPrB. 5.]


confusion and alarm, such as no man who
has-not lived in that country can possibly
inagiie, have been generated among the
people, r My lords, let us hope that this
society,,now it perceives what is recom-
mended to be done, will perform one act
of wisdom, and dissolve itself-and that
all' the other political societies founded
with refrernce to the same cause, will fol-
low its example; and then we may hope
to see.a measure which will meet with your
lordships' approbation and the approbation
of the whole united kingdom, brought
before us-a measure which while it gives
relief to our Roman Catholic fellow-sub-
jects, will at the same time preserve and
maintain the institutions of this Protestant
empire-institutions which every man who
loves his country and venerates its consti-
tution, will lay down his life to maintain,
and which his Majesty in his Speech from
the Throne, has declared it his duty and
his determination to preserve inviolate.
The Duke of Newcastle said, he was
desirous of putting a question to the noble
duke at the head of his Majesty's govern-
ment, as to the intentions of ministers in
relation to one topic alluded to in the
Speech from the Throne. He begged leave
to ask the noble duke, whether it was his
intention to proceed, on the subject of
Roman Catholic disabilities, by moving
for the appointment of a committee to
take those disabilities into consideration,
or to bring the question under the consi-
deration of their lordships by means of
a bill ?
The Duke of Wellington said, in answer
to,the noble duke's .question, he had to
inform their lordships that it was the in-
tention of his Majesty's government, in
accordance with the course indicated in
the Speech from the Throne, to present to
parliament, in the course of the present
,session, a measure for the adjustment of
what wascal ikdthe Roman Catholic Claims.
This measure for the adjustment of those
clainis would be brought forward in a sub-
stantive shape by his Majesiv's ministers
without going through a committee. The
measure which it was their intention to
propose for the adoption of parliament,
would extend to the removal generally
of all civil disabilities under which the
Roman Catholics laboured, with excep-
tions solely resting, on special grounds;
*and, it would be 'accompanied by 6ther
measures rendered necessary by the remo-
val af those disabilities.


King's Speech.


The Ear of Winchilsea said, that in the
few observations which he' considered it
necessary to make, he trusted that he
should keep within those bounds of defer-
ence and respect, which were always due'
from every member of their lordships'
House, when discussing any communica-
tion made by his Majesty to parliament.
He owned he had heard with much sur-
prise, and he would add with sincere and
heartfelt regret, that a question was to be
raised by his Majesty's governing it, affect-
ing the disabilities under which our Roman
Catholic fellow-subjects laboured; and
that for the removal of those disabilities,
a measure was to be brought forward, not
by those individuals who, in honour and
consistency, and without a sacrifice of po.
litical character, could do so, seeing they
had long advocated the .removal of civil
restrictions and disqualifications from every
class of their fellow-subjects, but by men
who had been invariably opposed to all
relaxation and alteration in the existing
laws. He owned he considered conduct
like this as involving a gross violation of
political rectitude and consistency. Per-
haps he felt too strongly on this subject,
and therefore he should endeavour not to
give full vent to his feelings, lest language
should fall from him unbecoming a member
of their lordships' House. Thus far, how-
ever, he would venture to go; and he
would say without fear of contradiction,
that if the noble duke at the head of his
Majesty's government had discovered that
adequate securities could be offered by the
Roman Catholics to a Protestant state,
and that the Protestant Church Establish-
ment could be satisfactorily guaranteed
from danger or encroachment, in manly
openness and candour, the noble duke
ought to explain what thoie sal'gua rds and
securities were. This was the more neces-
sary, in order to satisfy the Protestant por-
tiou of the country, which felt justly ap-
prehensive on the subject, and thought
that no sufficient securities could be 'de-
vised. He only stated his own simple and
individual opinion, which was, that if the
constitution of the country was to remain
as it long had been, essentially Protestant,
no individual was fit to legislate for us,
except an individual professing the religion
so wisely and necessarily cotinected' With
the state. If, on the contrary, the, consti-
tution of the country was no lon er' to con-
tinue Protestant, then, indeed Rodman
Catholics might be -admitted to the edjoy.







ment.of all the power and privileges of sincethe Billof Rights'wasi first bought
re state; but our revered and, admirable forward, and our present happy establish-
a6bstitttion,,whieh had, been fortso many ment constituted--he must-be,_pesmitted
yess Ithe national ,boast, the envy and to express his candid and unbiassedibopi-
adMiration of the world, the ground-work union. The institutions just alhidedto'were
of owur.iberties, and -our exclusive glory, established as the foundation of our con-
would besubverted. He maintained, that stitution, which also they had in, no small
the. oman Catholic religion was, in cha- degree contributed to preserve. The ob-
racte: and principle, inconsistent with the ject held in view in their formation was
existence. of the free British constitution, the preservation of the laws, religion, and
and therefore that its professors should be liberties of the country; and he was hap-
exeluded from privileges which they could py to say that that object they had hitherto
not possess without contributing to impair fully accomplished. The question was,
thnem,:.and, eventually effecting their de- were those barriers now to be broken
struction.. When the contemplated mea- down ? Let it not be supposed that this
sure; should be brought forward, he hoped question would not always be discussed
and trusted that the representatives of the with temper and moderation. He trusted
truly Protestant and constitutionalinterests it always might be, as hitherto it invari-
in parliament would narrowly watch every ably had been, so discussed. Indeed,
part of the bill, and fearlessly raise their the paramount importance of the subject,
voices in defence of the constitution, was such, as not to admit of any other
The Earl of Eldon observed, that for the mode of treatment; and he again said, he
many years during which the question of trusted it might always be considered in
Roman Catholic disabilities had been con- the proper tone and temper. But it might
sidered, it had always been discussed, as happen that men of sense and political in-
far as hemwas aware-and his experience tegrity, after considering the question,
extended to no inconsiderable period-with would entertain not merely considerable
temper and moderation. In both Houses doubt and hesitation, but a very decided
of parliament the subject had been fre- opinion as to the inexpediency of enter-
quently introduced of late years, and it training it, in the way that it now appeared
had been in every instance dealt by with to be the intention of his Majesty's go-
the utmost care .and consideration. He vernment to deal with it. He for onehad
was sorry, therefore, that it should have thought it his duty long and carefully to
appeared necessary to his Majesty's advi- consider this subject; and he now felt it
sers to represent to his Majesty the neees- to be equally his duty to express his de-
sity; of4inculcating upon both Houses of cided and undisguised opinion upon it.
pariiawmnt moderation and temperance in On these grounds it was, that he now
their discussion of this question. Of this came forward, and he would speak, boldly
he, was persuaded; namely, that he should what he felt warmly and conscientiously.
betray, is.duty to his sovereign, whom he He had occupied a variety of situations,
revered-that he should betray his duty when, at-different times,' this subject had
to every member of the community, know- been discussed, and on every occasion he
ing as he did the danger and hazard of the had expressed his honest and undeviating
measure about to be proposed, were he opinion as to the danger and impolicy of
not to raise his voice loudly and earnestly admitting Roman Catholics to state
against it. He.repeated, that he should offices. He had always felt the vast respon-
betray his duty to his fellow-subjects, and sibility he incurred in so doing; buthe had
totthe principle, of Protestantism as esta- never.yet shrunk from the responsibility,
blished at the period of the Revolution- and should not do so now. He was still
that Revolution,which it now appeared had able to offer their lordships his .opinion,
been founded and carried into effect by and in doing so he candidly.declared, that
bigots in religion and polities-their lord- if he saw any the slightest reason to.mo-
ships vould permit him to say there dify the opinion he had so frequently-ex-
might also be.bigots in laxity and liberality pressed on the subject, he' should do:it
t*mi hedid not protest against the conces, without the slightest hesitation.- 'He had
itqsuwhieh it seemed to be;the intention no doubt, no hesitation, in regard. to the
of his M ajest ys ministers to make. Onr question'that had been that evening intio-
sjiwAbjeoi--the most important that had ducedw to their lordships' notice. He
oCl iegi4 thk e attention lf the legislature, would say, in his place in that House, and


116, Addrep oh I he


Kings Speeea


[ LORDS, ]








he:hoped the people of the country would wise. He granted, and he did so readily,
byiasoneimeans become acquainted with that no man ought to be incapacitated
thle declaration--ifl he had a voice that from serving the state, except on grounds
would: sound to the remotest corner of of state policy-strong, cogent, and para-
the empire, he. would re-echo the principle mount, reasons of state-unless, in fact,
which he most firmly believed-that if his enjoyment of office were considered as
ever a Roman Catholic was permitted to likely to prove injurious to the general in-
form part of the legislature of this coun- terest. But this, he contended, was pre-
try, or to hold any of the, great execu- cisely the situation of the Roman Catho-
tive offices of the government, from that lies; and he challenged his opponents to
moment the sun of Great Britain would prove the converse of the proposition.
set [a laugh]. His opinions might be re- IHad he not felt this question to be aques-
ceived with laughter and contempt: op- tion of vital importance to the state gene-
probiut might be heaped upon their Irally-to his sovereign-tohis fellow-sub-
author, he nevertheless was prepared to ljects, and to religion too--which, God
contend, that they were correct, but trusted knew, in his opinion, had been too much
they would never be realized. A noble neglected during the last session, and pre-
lord than whom no man had ever argued cisely by those persons who ought to have
the Roman Catholic question with greater taken more care of it [hear]-if he had
fairness or moderation, had said upon one not felt this to be the case, he should not
occasion that toleration was a word have taken the active part he had hitherto
which he one day hoped to find forming done, and was still prepared to do, with
no part of the English language." He regard to this subject. As matters then
would say of his noble friend (lord Hol- stood, and influenced by his present feel-
land) that no individual could be found ings and conviction, no consideration on
that had paid greater or more careful at-- this side of the grave could induce- him
tention to the subject of Catholic disquali- to give his consent to the introduction of
fiction. The nble lord had expressed a single Roman Catholic into either House
the wish already alluded to, and had ad- of parliament, or to any political office
vocated his side of the question, on the whatsoever. But, said the noble lord,
ground that "religious opinions had no- there was no danger tobe apprehended from
thing to do with politics" [" Hear," from the course proposed by his Majesty's mi-
lord Holland]. Now, if that were true- nisters. And how so? How remove the
if that principle were correct-the king evils at present existing in Ireland?
had no right to be upon the throne of Why," said the noble seconder, dis-
these realms. Thefact was, that his Ma- solve the Catholic Association." But how
jesty sat upon that throne by virtue and would the noble lord do this ? It appeared
in consequence of peculiar religious opi- to him difficult enough to attempt it--ir
onions. The present line had been called fact, almost a hopeless speculation: bui
there expressly for the purpose of guarding he must confess, he felt considerably re-
the Protestant establishment of this coun- lived from the difficulty, when the noble
try. His noble friend who moved the lord intimated, in a speech which did him
Address had talked of the right of the infinite credit that the Catholic Associa-
Roman Catholics to civil privileges. tion would have the godd sense to dissolve
Who said that they had any such right? themselves. Now, he wished exceedingly
and on what grounds? Who besides his to know from the noble lord (who doubt-
noble friend would assert the principle? less possessed more information on the
Was it not conipetent to.every state to subject than himself) when it was that
declare who shokild and who should not the members of the Roman Catholic Asso-
hold political offices in that state? Doubt- citation had. manifested any of that good
less iit was; and on the plainest principles sense, for which they had received credit
of national justice. Such was the right at his lordship's hands, and which ren-
assumed ,by every country and at all pe- dered it at all likely that they would con-
riods, to hold one. party eligible to-ano- sent quietly to dissolve themselves. What
their .incapable of-political power. No had -this Association done? What were
man had,:any abstract.:rightto political they doing daily? They were taxing the
office; :hiaseligibility must depend upon king's subjects, and assuming the powers
the public voic, and embraced various of parliament; they governed there county
questions of fitness, expediency,, or other- more absolutely thv the sovefeigr 9r thl


liri~zg's$llee~~h;t 1'8'


[FEB: .


tj Addresls rlr Ae






Addres on the


laws; nay they governed the government
atelf. He was sorry to be obliged to
uake that statement to their lordships, but
snaef:w ks the fact. All this had the Ca4
thdlic Assciation been doing for years
back. It was tot a thing of yesterday ;
and ii the midst of the exercise of its
powerful, and multifarious functions, it
had laughed to scorn all attempts to put
itdown. The legislature did attempt to
pdt down the Catholic Association, and
had failed. If instead of putting down
the Association, the imperial legislature
proceeded to strengthen its hands by
granting the Catholics additional privi-
leges, it would be neither more nor less
atan a surrender of the throne and- the
ornstitution into the hands of thosepersons.
He could not conceive for the life of him,
how it happened that. for the last three
or 'feur years, we had tolerated the exist-
ence of an Association in the United king-
dom, the members of which proclaimed
aleud treason and sedition. Let noble
lords look at the publication of their pro-
ceedings. -Could it be supposed that it
was in the power of the government to
put an end to such an Association, by
means of a mere bill, brought into one
Bouse and passed through the other ?
Why, those whose duty it might be to put
such an enactment into execution, could
not effect their object, except, indeed, as
the noble lord had intimated, the Associa-
tion should be pleased to dissolve itself,
and so save the legislaturethe trouble and
disgrace of an unavailing effort to accom-
plish that end. The power of the Catho-
li- Association appeared to be growing
'more and more every day, and he thought
it likely to go on increasing. He thought
there was no circumstance which it was
mno~reimportant for their lordships to recol-
ect than what passed in the years 1793,
1794, and 1795, when there was, as at
the present day, a convention in a certain
patt of the -British empire-a convention,
too, in putting down which he had the
itrnour to bear a share; and with respect
to its destruction, he'might perhaps say,
without being open to a charge of egotism,
' wuorum pars magna fui." That con-
vention meant to destroy the principles of
the constitution; and he had no hesita-
tion in declaring his fixed opinion, that
the object of the Catholic Associ liorn was
reise t6he same. They sought to un-
ernrie the grand principle upon whlieh
his -preent Mfajesty -9ws entitled "to hi


throne. How, he asked came the House
of Brunswick to be called to the British
throne? Why, for the purpose of imain-
taining the constitution as establisghediin
church and state, at the time of the; Rqo-
lution? For the purpose of accomplish-
ing this object the descent of the House
of Stuart was interrupted. This was done,
as their lordships were aware, in order
that no Catholic should be seated on the
throne of these realms. Roman Catholics
were excluded from the Commons House
of parliament, by the Oath of. Spremacy;
subsequently, persons of that persuasion
were excluded from seats in their lordships'
House; and by these acts the constitu-
tion was sealed. The union between
church and state was thus preserved: it
was, according to the constitution of this
country, a union intimate and indissoluble,
as that between man and wife. It followed,
from the nature of the British constitution
as established at the period referred to,
that King, Lords, and Commons should be
Protestant. Was it now intended to
abandon this principle? If so, we gave
up the Constitution itself.-He must again
allude to the recommendation in the
Speech from the Throne, that parliament
should take the subject into consideration
with temper and moderation. His Majesty
"had condescended to communicate a re-
commendation to the House on that sub-
ject, and unquestionably it was fitting that
the recommendation should be received
with the respect which it deserved. He
must say, however, that in his opinion,
the question had always been considered
with moderation and temper; but it was
no part of temper and moderation to
put an end to the constitution. He was
an humble individual, and his opinion
might go for very little; but he must say,
he considered the proposition to remove
Catholic disqualifications one which,
without being guilty of the grossest in-
consistency, their lordships could not
agree to. He protested, again and again,
'against the violation of the constitution
implied in the proposed measure. Eventu-
ally, he trusted, the attempt would not
succeed. Meanwhile, however, the Pro-
testants of the United Kingdom must
naturally feel alarm for their religious
privileges, and the civil freedom which
they had so long enjoyed undisturbed.
'Protestants might be alarmed without
cause, and in the minds of Catholics hopes
would be generated which it might event-


King's Speech.


[.LORDS,]






St Alks sas-de [NIL.
ualY fL found 8irnvessible to fulfil. -He
14id ibt,~ish to raise the question he
deplected-the violation of the constitu-
tion i' it were carried; he would spare the
apprehensions -of the Protestant part of
the eemtminity, and avoid exciting falla-
6ioits es eetations .among the Roman
Cartholics. His resistance was not grounded
oft hostility tothe Catholics; it arose from
a desire to preserve the constitution whole
and unimpaired. Do not deiy these in-
dividuals the benefits of the constitution
as far as they can enjoy them with safety
to others; but for God's sake do not
destroy the constitution itself, while ad-
mitting them. He stood before his coun-
try, tad he solemnly declared that he was
acting from a solemn sense of duty, and
of Auty only, when he opposed the in-
tended measure. The considerations that
oetuated him were not those arising out of
a love of party they sprang from his
desire to protect the establishment in
Chtrch and State. In the outset of his
public life he had determined to act upon
these principles, and he should not now
depart from them. The man who would
iitroduce a single Catholic into the House
of Lords or Commons, he looked on
'as one ready, 'unknowingly perhaps-but
still ready-to undermine it. Such were
his opinions. His country might send
him to his grave covered with all the
obloquy that could blast the reputation of
a public ran; but to this declaration he
would adhere. H1I olf rEd himself to the
whole load of odium that might attach to
the maintenance of opinions which he
found it impo-sible to abandon; and he
did so, because he thought he should be
guilty of a gross and flagrant violation of
his duty to his king, whom he had en-
deavoared to serve with fidelity of a
gross violation of the duty he owed to his
country and its constitution-of a gross
violation -of his duty to his Protestant
feIlol. -subjects--hre ightalmostadd, of a
gross dereliction oi his dutyto his Catholic
fellow-subjects themselves (for they also
were interested in the maintenance of a
free constitution), if he afforded his coun-
teiance and support to such a measure.
He was satisfied, that in a country which,
for a century and a half, bad enjoyed an
established religion that more than any
thing else had o'nti ibutcd to its glory and
freedom, it was necessary to support the
Telgious establishiirent, if we intended to
tinttain o'r ranklaTriag the nations of


S .]. St&i*s Aes k. 9
the earth. It was for their lordships ,to
consider how they could best, support The
existing establishments in, Chirch and
State. They who held opinions diidfetnt
from those which he entertained said, that
the concession of the Catholic claims
would not injure the constitutim. Often,
as an individual member of parliament 'in
the discharge of his duty to his king and
country, had he opposed these claims.
He had done the sarmein reference to the
oaths he had taken as a member of :their
lordships' body, and those which he had
also taken as lord Chancellor; because he
conscientiously thought that he could not,
consistently with the due observanc~6 f
these oaths, afford his countenance to the
measure. He had acted thus under his
impression of what he conceived it right
and fit to do, and he did not now hesitate
to say boldly, that he should be fobmnd at
his post to resist the measure to the lst.
He owed too large a debtof gratitude to a
departed sovereign, and too much to *ote
who now existed-too much to the memory
of the one, and to the kindness and cca-
descension of the other-nrot to take care
to do nothing which might be disagreeable
to the sovereign on the Throne; but he
acted as he then did, in the full conviction
that by so doing he best discharged his
duty to the king and to his people, whose
happiness he had at heart. When heheard
the Catholic leaders talk of universal suf-
frage-when he saw the Association acting
the part of government, and screwing from
the pockets of the wretched inhabitants of
Ireland their miserable pittances, as con-
tributions to the Catholic rent-when he
observed them obtaining the a-iistance of
France and America-he could not but
feel that such an Association ought to be
put down. But this could only be done
by making the leaders of the Association
answerable to the common law for their
acts. There was no use in dissolving the
Association, except it were prevented
from ever again rising into existence.
The members of it had threatened to tale
the field, if the 40s. freeholds were put an
end to. They told us that 'they would
look to America, and set up their consti-
tution for ours. While seeking admission
to the constitution, they endeavoured to
destroy it. In fact their object was far
beyond emancipation. Parliamentshouald
see that there was a mighty diference
between sharing the benefits of theo-ot-
stitution and alowintg ts .datet .m.0ti.






23 Address on the [ LO
Whi noble, earl proceeded to express his
satisfaction at the allusion to the libera-
tion of Greece contained in the royal
8peeohj and added a hope, that the con-
test.with the Porte might soon be termi-
nated. After again adverting to the
Patholic question, and th'e introduction of
Jesuits into Ireland, the noble and learned
lord .concluded by declaring it to be his
intexition .to oppose to the utmost the
removal of Roman Catholic disabilities.
Earl Bathurst said, that his object in
rising. was to call the attention of the
House, not to the nature of the measure of
relief proposed to be extended to the
Roman Catholics further than as it had
been stated in the:Address proposed by the
noble marquis, but to explain an observa-
tion or: two which had been made by some
noble lords.near him. It appeared to him
that'.his noble -and learned friend was
offended at finding that the question was
recommended, to be taken into considera-
tion with temper and moderation, as if
this recommendation was to apply to the
opponents of the measure only, and not to
those who were likely to support it. Such,
however, was not the fact; temper and
moderation were recommended equally to
all, and without the exercise of both, it
was impossible to expect any beneficial
results ftom such a discussion. It was
nbt intended to enter into the merits of
the question on that occasion: that was
not the time for it, nor could it by any
indirect course of proceeding be introduced
in detail;on that day ; but his noble friend,
at the, head of the government, had been
called upon for an explanation, which he
had given in the, most succinct manner,
avoiding every thing calculated to give
rise to discussion; and that course he also
was. most anxious to adopt. But when
his ioble and learned friend had insinuated,
that it was a great inconsistency for the
same ministers to recommend from the
Throne, for the consideration of parliament,
a measure which, only a few months ago,
they had. themselves rejected as dangerous
to ,the constitution, he was anxious to
explain the verymaterial difference between
the, manner in which the subject had been
introidaued ,ast. year, and that which now:
attended itse&recommendation. At- the'
fgrterqfime a-measure of this kind hadl
passed thejother House, a conference with
thdir lor~ripsmwas subsequently solicited,
abshi ~h aa h6opbi was. expressed that
their lordships would deera it expedient to


IDS, ]


KingsSeeck, Sq .-24


follow the example set them by4he, Com-
mons. It was also a matter of notoriety,
that last year when the motion (passed
the House of Commons, his ]Majestwis
ministers had not engaged to bring iit
forward with the support of thei-goverhn
ment, and were certainly unprepared! to
advance it before their lordships. :Was
the question this year in the same situa-
tion in which it was when it was last
brought forward ? Was it not no" place-d
in an entirely new position ? It had, in
the present instance, come recommended
from the Throne, and the responsible
ministers of the Crown were prepared, in
due time, to submit such measures to. par,
liament as appeared to them fitr'and ex-
pedient, in furtherance of their purpose.
For himself he was always .one of those
who thought, if ever further concessions
were granted to the Catholics, they should
come recommended from the Throne;
and he was of this opinion, not only on
the principle, that every measure of grace
and favour should have that source,, but
because he was also decidedly of opinion,
that all "great. questions leading to great
results, that all questions of the magni-
tude of the one now under discussion
could not be advantageously carried into
effect, unless his Majesty's government
proposed them and became responsible for
them. Such was the manner in which,
when this question was first brought under
the consideration of parliament, it was the
intention of Mr. Pitt to have introduced it.
He proposed that it should come under
their consideration as a recommendation
from the Throne, and intended to take
on himself the responsibility of therecom-
mendation. Not succeeding in bringing
the subject forward in the way he had
contemplated, he retired from. office.--
He repeated that, in his opinion, this was
the only way in which the question could
be brought before their lordships; and
the impossibility of so bringing it forward
had always appeared to him to be the
ground of a great objection to the princi-
ple on which the latelord Liverpool formed
his administration. The principle on
which that administration was formed
rendered: t impossible for any member of
government, as a member of government,
to propose any such measure. Theadmi-
nistration was. formed on the principle,
that they.were not to consider this ques-
tion as: a government question; eaoh- in-
dividual of the government was to take the





,25 Address on the


part which he might consider to be most
properpbuti that, part was deemed to be
.only the part of the individual. That
administration, however, did not, by
adopting this course, escape responsibility
altogether. They were, in fact, responsi-
ble for their neutrality ; they were respon-
sible, if he might use the phrase, for their
irresponsibility. In consequence, of the
political death of lord Liverpool the admi-
nistration of,Mr. Canning succeeded.-
That right hon. gentleman formed a
government consisting of individuals, the
greater portion of whom were favourable
to the measure of emancipation, as that
right hon. gentleman himself was well
known to be. There were only two in
that administration who were adverse to
the Catholic claims ; and of those two the
noble and learned lord on the woolsack,
being one, nevertheless never declared
that he was adverse to concessions, if fit
securities could be found. It was under
these circumstances, connected with such
an administration, that he had a right to
entertain an independent opinion. Since,
however, the period to which he had
been referring the question had grown into
such vast importance-it had become of
so portentous a nature-that it was no
longer fitting that the government should
remain neutral. In fact, that neutrality,
if persevered in, would aggravate instead
of assuage all the evils which surrounded
the present system, and instead of oppos-
ing, or creating further resistance to the
measure, would, in all probability, only
prevent its being accomplished by those
who had-the power of accommodating its
scope and details to the mutual wishes
and feelings of all reasonable parties.-
Under these circumstances, he thought
the-government were right in recommend-
ing.this question to the consideration of
parliament, and in bringing forward such
measures as were best calculated to carry
into effect that salutary adjustment, which
would alike benefit all classes of his Ma-
jesty's subjects. It was not for him to
occupy one moment of their lordships'
time in vindicating the course which had
been pursued by his Majesty's advisers ;-
but,..in allusion to what had fallen from
his noble and learned friend, hb must say,
that he was not one of those who had de-
clared a determination never tol consent.to
any further concessions to the Roman
Catholics. B Bt, even if he had so ex-
pressed himself-nay, .even if he had re-


peated, year after year, such a declaratiori
-the moment it-was shewnn, to. him thb.t
his view was perverse or inexpedient; and
that it was for the interest-.of the country
to alter it, he had no hesitation in avowing
that he should not feel himself bound by
former votes, or deterred, from any! fear
of reproach for inconsistency, from:idoing
that which, under a change of circum-
stances, he was, persuaded ought torbe
done, and was indispensably required, for
the good of the empire [hear, hear]. ,
Lord Farnham said, that in the few
observations he had to offer, he sought
information more as to the. intended mode
of proceeding, than with any view:of
creating a discussion by anticipation.-
There would be, no doubt, time enough
allowed for discussing in all its bearings
whatever proposition it was in the contem-
plation of government to make. He
thought, however, it was of the highest
importance, in limine, that no mistake
should exist, as to the intentions of his
Majesty's ministers upon this great and
momentous subject. It was, indeed, one
of that importance which, when known,
must interest every individual in the com-
munity, from the Land's End to John
O'Groat's house, and no doubt elicit,,a
loud and universal expression of sentiment.
The public voice upon this great question
had hitherto been silent, deterred, he .be-
lieved, solely by the implicit reliance which
the people of England had placed in the
constitutional firmness of the noble duke
at the head of the government; and they
had no reason, he hoped he might be
permitted to say, to expect that that il-
lustrious personage would have come for-
ward with a measure of this vast import,
ance, without any timely declaration of
his altered sentiments. In the noble
duke's last speech upon the same subject
before their lordships, he had declared his
unabated opposition to this measure.; he
had likewise, on a still later occasion, de-
livered an opinion which had. gone forth,
as of his writing, to the public, through
the usual channels of communication (the
letter to Dr. Curtis), wherein he had.in-
sisted, that this was not the proper season
for discussing such a topic. The people,
then, were not prepared, he repeated, for
this sudden change of sentiment in ;the
prime minister; a change, too, respecting
which they:had, up to the latest moment:
been sedulously kept in the dark: by the
usual channels of public intelligence.,


[FEB. 5. ]


king's Speech; 26





Aditr~t~s~a~'k [LOR s,] ic's Spech


Surely the moble. drke ought to act with
&adoul r and openness, and now say how
fasrBhe meant to go. if he understood
him!ght, in the few words he had that
night delivered, every office in both Houses
of parliament, and every office in the state,
which there was no especial reasoti, should
be withheld from them, were to be thrown
open to the Catholics. There was, in
fact, to be no intelligible exception-no
reasonable limit to this plan of concession.
It. was of the utmost importance that the
people of England should know the full
extent of the proposed concessions. They
were entitled to this information. He
would not say the cloven foot was out;
but, the moment the public were aware of
what was going on, he was positive that,
in their course of the next month, their
voice would be heard in thunder, and in
a manner that no minister would dare to
disregard. There was one part of his
Majesty's Speech in which he was glad to
express his cordial concurrence. It was
the passage which lamented, that an As-
sociation should still exist so dangerous to
the! public peace, and inconsistent with
the spirit of the constitution. He agreed
that the Catholic Association ought to be
put down; it ought to have been sup-
pressed years ago, and not merely looked
at, as it were, by the flimsy act of 1825,
when the common law ought to have
been called into operation. Extraordinary
powers, and the strong arm of force, ought
to have been used with the common law,
to abate the nuisance of the Catholic As-
sociation, instead of allowing such a body
to laugh at the act which the legislature
had so imperfectly contrived against them.
He trusted that the measure now intended
for the suppression of these demagogues
would be an efficient one. But then they
were' told, that when the Association was
suppressed, this recommendation to repeal
the penal laws should be immediately
acted upon. Was he to understand that
the Association must be ipso facto put
down, before the new measure was to be
introduced? If that were so, then they
would at all events have the suppression
of a dangerous nuisance.-On the subject
of securities he would say, that he had
been thinking of the Catholic question
ever sincere had-been able to think upon
any subject, and he had never been able
to see, nor had wiser men been able to
see, any adequate- securities which the
BRoia* !Catholies had to give. As to


paper securities, such as tie Test and
Corporation actsN let noi the people, qf
Emgland again be insultede with thea.
What had they to expect from the. aths
and promises of the: Roman Catholica?
If they conscientiously believed i their
religion, it would be their duty to. take
every step to strip the right reverend
bench of its tenrporalities-it would be, in
fact, a saving of the souls of the latter.
Were he himself a Catholic, he had no
hesitation in avowing, that he would use
political power to eject the right reverend
bench from their seats in that House. He
was convinced the Catholics would feel
themselves bound to aim at the destruc.
tion of the Protestant Church. It would
be credulity and delusion to suppose other-
wise. He hoped that whatever bill or
bills the government intended to introduce
would be speedily placed before the pub-
lic. He'was sorry this was not done in
the first instance, before ministers had
advised his Majesty to send down the re-
commendation to parliament. The noble
duke owed it to himself, to his king, and
to his country, to explain the measures
which he had so suddenly propounded, to
enable the country at large, as soon as
possible, to form their opinions upon so
important an alteration of the constitution
in Church and State. There was one
remark which he would, in passing, make
upon the new arrangement. Whatever
was its character, to do good at all, it
must be considered as a permanent mea-
sure. Let the people, then, on the earliest
day, be made acquainted with the extent
of the intended concession, and the amount
of the securities upon which it was thought
the constitution could safely rest, and on
which the government were prepared to
rely, forthe permanent stability of the civil
and religious liberties of this kingdom.
The Marquis of Downshire said, he was
anxious to take the earliest opportunity of
rising, not for the purpose of prolonging
the debate, but merely to express his great
satisfaction at the recommendation con-
tained in his Majesty's Speech. He
looked upon it as a most favourable omen
for the general peace and tranquillity of
the kingdom, and he derived the warmest
gratification from the prompt and effica-
cious manner in which the government
had taken up the subject. He now looked
forward with certainty to the peace and
improvement of Ireland. That there were
still great difficulties in the way, he oould


Additss on the


[ LORDS, ]





Adde'g on te


easily believe; but he was sure that in the.
progress of the measure, none of them
womdd be fould- insuperable. He was
.quite satisfied that if the illustrious pre-
mier werit straight forward and bond-fide
to the cuork, h'e would find himself at the
end of his salutary labour, in a condition
to satisfy all parties, and give security to
every class of his fellow-subjects. He
was anxious thus publicly to declare his
perfect conviction that the proposed mea-
sure was not only just and expedient, but
also practicable, and certain of ultimate
satcess. As to the Catholic Association,
he did not mean to impute sinister views
to any of its members, but he had no
hesitation in calling upon them at the
present moment to consider whether they
would really discharge those duties to their
country which they so loudly professed,
by continuing to agitate party feel-
ings after the recommendation in his
Majesty's speech. He advised them, with
the utmost sincerity, to dissolve their
sittings, being convinced that this was the
wisest course which, under present cir-
cumstances, they could take.
The MarquisofAngleseysaid:-Mylords,
I only rise to detain you for a very short
time, while I congratulate the parliament
and the country upon the gracious recom-
mendation which has been this day com-
municated in his Majesty's Speech, re-
specting that most important question, on
the advance of which, in my humble opi-
nion, mainly depends not only the tran-
quillity, but the safety, and prosperity of Ire-
land-I may, indeed, say, of the whole em-
pire. By therecommendation which has been
thus given, I am diverted from the purpose
I had first intended, of calling your lord-
ships' attention to a subject not only per-
sonal to myself, but also in some degree
affecting the public-I allude to my ad-
ministration of the affairs of Ireland
during the last ten months, and to an ex-
planation which I had intended to have
given, of all the subjects connected with
it, of my recent sudden recall, and of the
charges which I have reason to believe
were subsequently brought against me,
of not having acted, in that high trust, in
a manner consistent with my duty as the
king's representative in Ireland. These,
your lordships will admit to be grave
charges ; and I might well have expected,
that when they were made, I should some-
how or other hase been placed in a situa-
tion of explaining and of defending my


actions. I have, however, been disap;
pointed in this expectation; akd, altkeogh
I should have been obliged, with great
reluctance, to have called your lordships'
attention, as well as that of the public, to
my private wrongs; yet I cannot think of
doing it on the present occasion, when the
public wrongs of so many millions of the
king's subjects are brought forward, in
the strong expectation of their receiving
ultimate redress. I will not, then, ateach
a moment, trespass upon your lordships
with any personal complaints, but merely
impress upon your lordships'minds, that I
court inquiry into every part of my ad&
ministration of the government Of Ireland
-that all I ask is, the closest, the
deepest investigation of it, I am per-
fectly ready and anxious to vindicate ,my-
self upon all and every part of my go.
vernment in Ireland, All I ask is the
fullest and most rigid examination do it:
I will not, I repeat, my lords, ihtrude wy-
self on the public attention upon personal
points, when so important a matter as is
now before us occupies your lordships' at-
tention. But neither this nor any other
consideration shall prevent me, at all
times, from avowing my readiness to court
the fullest inquiry: the deeper it shall be,
the more gratifying will it be to me, feeling,
as I do, a perfect conviction, that the more
comprehensive the examination, the more
certain shall I be of obtaining a verdict in
my favour, from every honourable and in-
dependant man. I am again anxious to
express my gratification at the intention of
the government to make this most im-
portant question the subject of decisive
recommendation from the throne. But
I cannot refrain from expressing an ardent
hope, that whatever is intended to be
done may not be done ungraciously or
niggardly, or with a cold and unwilling
hand. Whatever may be the measure of
the government, I hope it will be one
worthy of a wise and liberal legislature to
offer, and befitting a high-minded, gene.
rous, long-suffering, and truly loyal people
to accept. I wish to say one word-of the
Qatholic Association, although I feel itlto
be extremely tender ground for me to
touch upon, for I am not quite sure that
some of your lordships do not think me
a member of that body, or, at least, as a
person having some delegated power or
authority from them [a laugh]. -I must,
ne-erthelc-s, assure your lordships gravely,
that I am neither a member nor a delegate


[FPa. 5.1:5





S Address 6 the [LORDS,] .King's SpqecL. 3
from the Catholic Association;; but when the emperor of the Brazils. But nothing
I recollect, that frim this very spot I got, was said of the nature of these negotia-
some time ago, into no small' difficulty, tions, or' of the mode in which they 'iere
by making use of amilitaryphrase, I must proceeding, or of the expectation of the
be cautious how I expose myself to similar result. He had no hesitation in saying,
misconstruction. Still, as a military man, that if there was any spot in Europe, or in
I would say, that there are different posts the world, which more than another had
which have their relative risks and duties. strong ties upon the friendship of Great
The nearer a soldier is to the enemy, the Britain, it was the little kingdom of Por-
less'sensible he is of his danger. Now, tugal, which was now in a situation of so
I, have lived for the last ten motlths under much peril and distraction. He there-
the nose of this Catholic Association, and fore earnestly hoped that parliament
I positively declare, I neither saw nor felt would speedily receive such information
the proximity of this danger, which is so upon that subject, as would show that the
much talked of. I know, indeed, that a respect for ancient alliances had not been
law was passed to suppress this body. compromised, and that no diminution had
Then, is it a legal association, or is it not ? taken place in the value of dear and long-
Why not decide that question? I have cherished connections. With respect to
always said to his Majesty's ministers, the relations of the country in the east of
poidtitout to me that it is illegal, and that Europe, all be had to say was, that,he
it is expedient to put it down, and I will thought his noble and learned friend, who
do it without the least difficulty. That it had threatened them with a serious ainim-
is an unconstitutional association nobody adversion upon the treaty of the 6th of
doubt ; but I believe no lawyer will posi- July, 1827, and upon the battle of Nava-
tively atsert it to be illegal. How, then, rino, was a little too late in coming for-
you can put it down by the strong arm.of ward with his attack. It would have been
the law, without invading the right of the natural enough for the noble and learned
subject to express his feelings when ag- lord to have called in question the policy
grieved, I am at a loss to conjecture. But of that treaty last year; but now, when
this I have no hesitation in stating to your one part of it had been fully carried. into
lordships, that if you will follow my ad- execution, and when the war which had
vice, I will propose a measure at once raged with such atrocity between the
which will for ever 'extinguish tie Catholic Greeks and the. Turks had been terminated
Association.-Pass a bill for putting the by its operation, it was rather too late for
Roman Catholics upon a footing of politi- the noble and learned lord to come for-
cal eqiualitywith their Protestant brethren, ward and attack it, as a violation of the
and I will answer for it you will never law of nations. He was then ready, as in-
hear again of the Catholic Association deed he always had been, to defend the
[hear, hear]. treaty of the 6th of July, upon those great
Lord GoFlerich said, he was well aware and leading principles of policy to which
that the paramount importance of the prin- reference must always be'had, when the
cipal topic which had been so wisely in- country was placed, as it was then, in cir-
tr duced'into his Majesty's Speech neces- cumstances of no smalldifficulty. Having
sarIly'occupied their exclusive allusion, stated these desultory considerations to
and rendered the present moment un- their lordships, more with a view of
favourable to the consideration of other guarding himself from attack hereafter for
topics, which were nevertheless of urgency not adverting to them now, than from any
in' the contemplation of the foreign rela- conviction of its being necessary to advert
tjons of this country. He confessed he to them at all, he would proceed to say
was somewhat disappointed at finding that one or two words' on a more important,
his Majesty's Speech conveyed so little because a more domestic, subject, % which
information on one ofthose points. which touched most nearly the Irelings and pie-
policy, interest, and the faith of treatiti, judices of all cla.is; of his Mtajetsy's sub-
combined to render interesting-he meant jects. He agreed with the noble lord, that
Potugal. All he learned was, that the the present was not a fit opportunity for
dptlomasic intercourse between t.he two entering into a discussion of the principles
cqbrts was still suspended. ande that go- on which Catholic emaicipatior ought to
vernent 'was endeavouring to settle the be granted; buthle felthlinself bound, as
eeti-ng differences, by negotiation with a sincere friend to that question, to ex-






',Address'onhe


press his entire concurrence with what had
fallen frorm his noble.'riend, the president
of the council, as to the principle on which
any measure for effecting it ought to bt
brought IForward. It had been his fortune
to be a member of various administrations,
in which it was agreed to act independently
of each Other on this great question.
This was a positive evil in itself, and as
such he had always felt it. He had never
concealed either from himself or from
others, that such was his feeling. On the
contrary, he had avowed it publicly more
than once in his place in parliament.
Nevertheless, he had always thought, and
still continued to think, that the circum-
stances which existed at the time when
lord Liverpool formed his cabinet, not
only justified the members of it in acting
independently of each other on that ques-
tion, but absolutely rendered it impossible
to form an administration upon any other
principle. He felt it to be a sacrifice so
to act; but larger interests were at stake,
and a combined sense of duty and necessity
reconciled his conscience to the sacrifice
which was then demanded of him. He
had great pleasure in hearing that that
difference of opinion on this subject,
which had weakened and paralyzed so
many former administrations, ceased to
exist in the present administration. He
concurred specially in the recommenda-
tion given in the king's Speech, as to the
tone and temper in which-their lordships
ought to consider this question. He also
concurred with the noble lord who had
recently addressed them, that there never
had been any manifestation of violence,
in the- mode of considering it in that
House. He would say for himself, that
so deep was his conviction of the para-
mount importance of settling this ques-
tion, that whatever might be his feelings
on the recent events of the last two years
-which.had certainly not been such as to
induce him to anticipate the blessed event,
which he now saw upon the eve of com-
pletion-he should make it a point of
duty to suppress them, although he could
not pretend tolextingtui; h them altogether.
He had nevej been a party to the con-
sideration of this question, except from a
conviction of its absolute necessity; and
he therefore had no difficulty in approach-
ing it at present with the feelings recom-
mended from the Throne; speciallyy as he
sawzi consnimmatioU near at hand, which
would, do justice to complaining millions,
VOL. XX.


and would give permanent power and in-
vincible strength to what he must inw be
permitted to call a disunited peof e. In
saying this,:he knew that he was s making
warmly-but he felt deeply, and mans
heart must warm at hearing such a speech
as had been delivered by the notAe lord
opposite, under the conviction tliat the
proposition to be offered to their coqsidel a-
tion would, as to terms and to time and to
other circumstances, be such as the y could
conscientiously assent to. With.respect to
the Catholic Association, he. fully agreed
with the noble marquis who had expressed
his opinion of its'conduct in terms equally
terse and elegant. He would himself go
further than the noble marquis: he.would
say, When .you grant a .great..bon to
a complaining people,'it is useless for
you to putddwn by law those Associations,
which will dissolve of themselves in. the
ordinary course of nature." He did not
advise the Catholic Association to dssolye
itself, and for this plain reasou- that it
the disabilities which effected the Catholic
part of the community were removed, the
nature of things would dissolve that Asso-
ciation. You take away the foo6 on
which it exists, you destroy the vitally of
the atmosphere in which it breathes, when
you say to it, the two Houses of parlia-
ment are ready to consider your g ie0 aueUs
and to remove them." You avert by one
generous act a thunder-cloud which has
long been lowering over your ho izroq and
threatening to burst with ruin. on yyoaur
heads. He would not be over nice, either
as to the Catholic Association, or as tp the
question of securities; for he was. pn-
vinced that they would find the strongest
security of all in doing justice. When
justice was performed, six months would
not elapse before they would all wonder
how this question could have excited so
much dissension in the country, and could
have disunited and upset so many dif-
ferent cabinets. He sincerely trusted that
the government would carry into effect
the proposition which it had announced.
He, knew that they would be opposed in
attempting it. They would have a great
deal of hard fighting to encounter; but if
they acted with resolution, there could 'be
no doubt that they would be succeess'ud,
It would be his duty to gile themn the best
support in the power of so humble an ju-
dividual ss. himself; and b4e, should bl
amply repaid for that support by.feelng
thathe had contributed to the accomplish-
C


[ FB. 5.]


King's Speech.






85 Address 05 the


',enib'of the greatest good which parlia-
Sieiea d :ever conferred upon the country.
SI The -Eal rf aEW explained. He said,
tl at if h~ had been tardy in bringing the
treaty of the 6th of July before the notice
of PAtliament, the fault was not with him,
but with others. He had been prepared
toldtocuss it in the last session ; but he had
beetdistinctly informed by the noble earl
at'the head of the Foreign Department,
that he could not bring on such a discus-
sionh without detriment to the public
service- '-With respect to the observations
whith hhad been made on the division which
atilted in lord Liverpool's cabinet, on the
question of -atholic emancipation, and the
vnanirmitv which was said to prevail in the
present cabinet on the same question, he
would only say, that he had known lord
Liverpool long, and was convinced that he
would have thought death preferable to
,'gitng his assent to such. a proposition as
rha% which had been announced to; their
lordfllips.
The Duke of Newcastle said, that
although the proposition to release the
Catholics from their present disabilities
emanated from the throne, it was not, on
that accountt, to be acceded to without
consideration by parliament. Such a pro-
position ought to be decided on its own
Imerits, and its own merits alone; danger-
otts as it was in itself, it was rendered still
mfbe dangerous by being recommended by
a Protestant king to a Protestant parlia-
merit. He trusted that neither their
ldrdships nor the country would accede to
such a proposition. He hoped that it
would be rejected in toto, and in limine.
He conceived that 'it was quite impossible
to give privileges to the Catholics, and to
provide securities for the established
church. He lamented from the bottom of
his heart, that the noble duke at the head
of the government, on whom the Protes-
tants had, placed, such implicit .reliance,
should have ceased to be their defender.
If 'the nobld duke persisted in pursuing
the dangerous course on which he. had
entered, he would soon fall from his present
High situation, and, what was more mate-
rial, he would deserve his fall.
'Lord Rederdanl began by alluding to
tl d6dbts which had been expressed, and
to the distinctions which had been drawn,
as to' socieiees, whiih 'were not' illegal,.
anthon*lh' Trlhe might 'be unconstitutional.
"NO'with respect to the Catholic Associa-'
tibit,'i was sure that it was une6nstitu-


tional, and he was indined tsbelieve ,that
it was not legal. He wished,1thereoreiito
place this point before the consideralibn
6 thAer lordabep s,'" W -r it -fit thatia 1Rt
should be passed expressly on aceounviof
that Association, or that the commionotaw
should be made efficient, if ii was not go
already, not only in the case of that Asdo-
ciation, but in the case of every other
association formed upon similar principles?
He was of opinion, that the noble duke
at the head of the government might, with
great propriety, propose a law which would
give the common law power sufficient to
repress that and all similar associations.
He also wished their lordships to consider
the different relation in which the Roman
Catholics and the Dissenters'stood towards
the state. All Protestant sects dissenting
from the established church were volun-
tary associations, actuated by English
feelings and English sympathies; whilst
the Roman Catholics were all members of
a foreign body, and in constant c6rres-
pondence with a foreign state. -They did
not form a distinct body as English Catho-
lics, or as Irish Catholics; but they formed
a component part of the great community
of the Roman Catholic church, He
wished their lordships to remember, that
even when the Roman Catholic religion
was the established religion of the country,
the legislature had deemed it expedient to
regulate by law the correspondence of the
English Catholics, and especially 'of the
English ecclesiastics, with the court of
Rome. If, therefore, any law for the
removal of Catholic disabilities should now
be presented for the approbation of their
lordships, it would be incumbent upon
them to provide such regulations for their
communication with the See of Rome as
would render it impossible to have a per-
nicious tendency. There Was another
consideration, and that too an important
one, -which he trusted their lordships
would not lose sight of. What was, the
present condition of Spain and Portugal
-two countries with which this country
must always continue more od legsscon-
nected? Was it not thepower'of these
great establishments, which or nrinlly
formed no part of the Catholic chbrch,-
he was speaking of the Monastic establish-
ments,-was 'it not, he asked, :tlie power
of those great establishments, that had
reduced both" those cotitries !to' their
present- tate of misery and degradation ?
Did the noble duke mean to authorise


King' -Speech.


[ LORDS, ]





.Address one [ e


the exitefice of similar establikhnments in
ithei 4 itead kingdoms ? Did the noble
ditke ,oean to tolerate the existence of the
edeiety: f Jesuits on the British soil? Did
the oble .duke mean that in Ireland,
whete-there was no, statute of mortmain,
large, investments should be legalized for
the foundation of monasteries; or did he
mean that they should henceforth be pro-
hibited ? What he meant to say upon
this part, of the subject was, that if the
noble duke should determine to prohibit
such institutions entirely, he would not
interfere with the Catholic, religion; for
he repeated, that they formed no part of
the original Catholic church, that they
were comparatively of modern invention,
and that they had been found most mis-
chievous and detrimental, in every region
in which they had been permitted to take
root. He ventured to suggest these
points to the consideration of the noble
duke, in the hope that the measure in-
tended to be introduced would be such as
to relieve the Protestants from many of
their present apprehensions. The feeling
of the country, whatever might be the
feeling either of that or the other House
of parliament, was a feeling of alarm ; aye,
and of great alarm. It was therefore the
bounden duty of ministers to use every
means in their power to allay or remove it;
for if such means were not used, it might
and would go to very serious lengths
indeed. If the ministers were desirous to
act a prudent part, they would bring for-
ward at once, and without delay, every
detail of their measure, which was calcu-
lated to secure the interests of the esta-
blished church, and would tell the people
at once, of the means which they had
provided to guard their religion from
encroachment and violation. Let the
House recollect for a moment the language
-now used by the Roman Catholics of
Ireland, and even by such of them as held
high stfaion in their church. Nothing
less than this :-that they were prepared
to sweep heresy from the country, and to
level the Protestant church with the dust.
Was that language to be endured?
Would they give power to those who used
it?' And if they did give power, what
security would they offer that those who
received:it would not employ it in effect-
ing their avowed objects ? If lany thing
was to be done for the Catholics, it would
Sbe indambent upon the government to put
dowri tAl i spirit in the Catholic religion


which was now dividing Irfeland, had
desolated Spain, and produced in Portugal
the most serious inconveniences.: The
consideration of the various topics which
he had suggested would be a task of no
inconsiderable difficulty; but it ought, on
that account, to occupy more; closely the
attention of ministers, if they wished ,to
produce tranquillity and satisfaction.
Tranquillity and satisfaction would.acotbe
produced, unless all parties were convinced
that no unfair advantage was to be taken.
In the last session of parliament,, their
lordships had thought fit to admit, the
Dissenters to certain privileges of which
their ancestors had been deprived. He
had given his negative to the measure
introduced for their relief, tinder, the
impression, that it would encourage the
Roman Catholics to hope for a similar
relaxation of the laws affecting members
of their religion. What had rendered him
less averse than he had been originally -to
the repeal of the Test and Corporation
acts was, that the Dissenters, though
numerous, were divided into sects without
end, each forming separate but voluntary
associations. They differed from the
church, it was true, on grounds of religious
opinion, but they also differed equally
widely from each other; and thus one
congregation often became two, and was
split into various parties of minor import-
ance. What was the consequence? They
were not a distinct body like the Roman
Catholics-they were not combined toge-
ther by any common feeling like the
Roman Catholics-they were not under
the subjection of their priesthood like the
Roman Catholics-and above all, they
were not connected with any foreign
power like the Roman Catholics. In
former days, when the Roman Catholic
religion was the established religion of the
country, parliament regulated the manner
in which Roman Catholics should corres-
pond, not only with the members of their
church at home, but also with such mem-
bers of it as were abroad at the head.-
quarters of their church at Rome. The
claim of the bishop of Rome. was, to be
considered universal bishop of the Christian
church, entitled, with the assistance of a
council of bishops, to regulate everything
relating to its concerns and, interests.
Now, if it was not deemed expedient to
allow British subjects to correspQnd unre-
servedly with the See of .Rone, at a p eiod
whenthe Roman Catholic was the eSt,-
C2


King's peeoh.


[ Fh. 5.]






Address on the


[LOR


blished religion of the country, surely it
dould ntotbe' expedient toi allow them'wto
carry oi'n such correspdidence without
restrietio', now that the' constitution orf
the 'state as 'well 'as its religion were
essefitially Protestant. The matters which
he'had thus ventured to suggest to their
16 rdhips were all of first-rate importance;
and-he begged to claim for them the par-
tied'utr'attetion of the noble duke at the
head- bf his Majesty's councils. In his
humble judgment, they-deserved mature
cositnleration; for he was certain that
neitiabr tranquillity nor satisfaction would
result from the proposed change in our
laws,! unless all classes of Protestants-and
the Dissenters were now beginning to take
ast much interest in this question as the
members of the establishment-were con-
vineed, 'that the object of it was-not to
force 'upon them the Roman Catholic
religion, as the religion of the state: The
Irish agitators had openly declared that
such was their object; and that declara-
tion rendered it the bounden duty of their
lordships, whether they did any thing in
their favour or not, to guard most vigilantly
against their encroachments.
SThe Duke of Wellington said, he was
sure that their lordships would not expect
that he should enter, upon the present oc-
casido;, into a detail of the particular pro-
visions of the measure which would here-
after'be brought under their consideration.
His inajesty had announced to them his
desire that they should take into their de-
liberate. consideration the disabilities af-
fecting his Roman Catholic subjects, and
had particularly pointed& out to them the
objects to which he wished them to direct
their attention, and which he wished them,
if possible, to make good. .When he stated
the general purport of the measure which
the king's servants intended: to propose
hereafter to parliament, he had intimated
to the House, that they were most desirous
to provide for the particular circumstances
stated in his' Majesty's Speech; namely,
for the safety of those institutions which
must ever be held sacred in this Protes-
tant-kingdom, and which it was the duty
and determination of his m.jijs.ty to pre-
serve inyiolate. He hoped that the noble
and learned lord on the cross bench would
rely:upon ihiss Majesty's: ministers for pro-
viding 'in the measure, which they were
abtot to iritroduce into parliament, against
thoiBe.prticular dir'cuomsni ce.s to which he'
had adverted-; .and if that noble 'and


DS, ] King's Speech. 40
learned lord would assist them with ifs
great learning; he had noidoubt tltraitkgy
should derive great benefit from .hisvald-
able assistance.' Having saidiitn is&riueh
on this part of the subject, Jhe tiuit ,noiw
advert to what had fallen front ainoble
baron on the cross-bench (Farnham), ih
which his noble friend had accused him of
a want of faith in bringing this question
forward at present. But, he begged leave
to remind their lordships that, on the seve-
ral occasions on which- he had previously
addressed them. on this particular subject,
he had invariably stated, that he was most
anxious for a settlement of it. He had
considered always, had considered: even
last year, that a moment of tranquillity
was necessary for such a settlement. And
why did he consider it necessary ? Be-
cause he wished to conciliate to the ques-
tion those persons in th1 e country whom he
knew to be adverse to it, including those
very persons from whom the noble baron
said they were soon to have such mnnillold
addresses. The measure, which he intend-
ed should precede those which-he should
afterwards propose, was calculated to ipro-
duce that moment of tranquillity which
was so necessary to conciliate the public
to the measure which he intended to pro-
pose for the pacification of Ireland. His
noble friend on the cross-bench ihad stated
to the House, that the'proposed measure
was inconsistent with the constitution, as
established at the Revolution ; and ano-
ther noble lord had concurred in that
statement. If he had been going to pro-
pose a measure which would, introduce a
predominant Catholic power into parlia-
ment, he should then be doing that which
was clearly inconsistent with the constitu-
tion. But he was not going to, do any
such thing. There were degrees of power,
at least. Would any man venture to say,
that Catholic power did'not exist at pre-
sent, either here or in Ireland ? He would
address himself:more particularly to the
noble lords who had so pointedly opposed
him, and would ask tliei whletliei' Roman
Catholic power was not introduced into
Ireland by measures of their own'? Had
not some noble lords exerted their influ;
ence to the utmost, to product' that very
power which had-rendered a measure: like'
that which he had announced to' parlia.
meant absolutely necessaryy' As such- was
the case, he implored: noble, lords, to look
at the situation of.the country;. andythii
stated of" society which it had produced.
4 '4'' :.






41 Address o. the


Whether .it doA.dbeen bought about by
th:i-este.ce :of, these disabilities, or
byithe.,atholie Association, he would not
pretend to s\ ;.h,;abt this he would say,
,hat no man who, looked at the state of
hinigs for the last.two .years, could pro-
ceed,ulonger upon the oil system, in the
existingcondition of Ireland, and of men's
opinions,, on the ,subject, both in that
country and in this. His opinion was,
that it was the wish of the majority of the
people, that this question should be set-
tled some way or other. It was upon that
principle, and in conformity with that wish,
that he and his colleagues had undertaken
to bring the adjustment of it under the
consideration of parliament; and he hoped
that their lordships would give them such
time as would enable them to bring it for-
ward in that complete manner, in which
his. majesty had declared his willingness to
give it his royal assent. He hoped that
they.would not take it into consideration
by ,piecemeal, but would wait with pa-
tience until it was placed as a whole deli-
berately before them.
The Marquis of Lansdowne said :-I do
not mean to trespass on your lordships'
time at any great length but I cannot per-
mit the opportunity to pass without making
a fewiobservations on the matters which
have been presented to our consideration,
by his IMaijcty's Speech. The last topic
in that Speech is unquestionably by far the
most important and the most valuable
portion of it, and it relates to a subject
which has engaged the deepest attention
of the whole nation for many months past :
but, vast: and paramount as is the import-
ance of -the, subject of the state of Ireland,
and the consideration of the measureswhich
maybe best calculated to introduce peace,
prosperity, 'and contentment among the
mass of the population of that country,
we must' not allow ourselves to be, so far
engrossed by this great object of domestic
policy, as entirely to forget that there
exists continent of Europe,, The topics
to whichihe Speech directs qur attention,.
within reference, to our foreign policy, ;or
sore of theirmat least,, are aloo of the ut-.
most imlortante.:., Thesewill afterwards
be'idiscussed at Igreater length; but even,
now'.they.ought.naot to be dismnissd wirh-
out same observations. First,, as to ,the;
war. whieh,;no,:;,rages:. in.,the east of7
Europeiibetween -Russia and .Turkey, L
am -ttily sopy that theleffortstof his Ma-
jesty's ministers to put an end to that


King's Speech.


[ FEB. 5. ]


warhaveanot been more succesafl. I
am sorry that they have not better, Sui-
ceeded in. citingg the apprehepsioni..of
those horrors with which such a was.must
be attended, if it -hould disturb the ge-
neral peace:of Europe. But I admit that
I do not know any measures rore alpi .
lated to avert such horrors, than the policy
which was pursued last year, founded,,on
the Treaty of July, 1827,, and carrying
into effect the determination to compejlby
force the cessation of hostilities in Greece.
I regard that policy, and the efforts which
have resulted from it, with the highest ap-
probation. It is a line of policy which has
given the fullest sanction to thu Tieaty,
notwithstanding the. allegations qf,spome,
that it would be interfering v ith the
strongest principles of national policy to
take possession of any portion of. the do,
minions of our mostt faithful, most an-
cient, and most eild.latcrind ally," with a
view to the pacification of Greece, and
putting an end to the inhuman .warfare
which was waged in that country. ,It was
an act of sound policy and plain justkie to
take possession of the Morea, ..altht gh
by some it was considered as. a gross
and abominable outrage; and,I .cannot
help admiring the delicacy of my,noble
friend, the Secretary of State for Foreign
Affairs,, who sent one of those who, had
so decidedly disapproved of :the interfe.
rence of the three powers wihh the Gre-
cian part of the.Ottoman empire out of the
way to another scene of diplomacy, that
he might not be an eye witness of so-un-
ceremonious an outrage on our," most an-
cient, most faithful, and most enlightened
ally," the sight- of which could not to.
him be very agreeable. .,But the,,noble
person to .whom I am alluding,, (lord
Strangford) has ,beenspared, by the deli-
cacy of my noble friend opposite, the pain-
ful task of aiding and. abetting.a proceed-
ing which he must regard as .a gross out-
rage, but one-,which I consider as Adoing
the highest honour to the French govern-
ment, The: decisive step of the, occupa-,
tion-'of .the Morea, by the FaBach, was,
under the circumstances, a, proof,;of, the,
high honour, and military. .emrgy, yaf.
that, .people, and,, what was better, *i,
wasQ proof of disinterested pritinpippJ,i.thl ,
French governmentt, and,a meaelrpw4ii4,
executed as it was, justly entitled the nai
tion to the respect and admirationof'Ithe,
civilized world.-Travelling fartBher;iIesr
ward I cannot help alluding to the policy,






43 Address on the [LORDS, ] King's Spfilee 44
which hs $een pursued with riespert to subject under your lordships considera-
Portugal. I am most unwilling, at pre- tion, I always inquired, 'in the first place,
sent, tq enter upon the details of the mea- whether it was the intention of hi MNa-
sure& which appear to have been adopted, jesty's ministers to subiit any proposiitior~
with respect to that country; but I am to the legislature for that purpose. 't~'
anxious that the proper explanations not go the length of the noble lord who
should be given on that head, and that it said, that every act of grace and faddur
should, be made to appear, that the cor- ought to emanate from the Crown; but I
respondence of the government of this do say, that acts of favour do come with
country with the head of the House of peculiar grace and propriety from the
Braganza has been carried on in the most Crown. A noble and learned lord has
amicable manner, and with the prospect said, that if ihe Catholics were to be
of leading to the most beneficial results, admitted to the privileges of the consti-
It is my earnest desire that explanations tuition as fully and freely as the Protes-
may be given which will convince unpre- tants, then the king, as a Protestant,
judiced persons, that the government of would have no security for his Crown.
this country cannot justly be charged with But it is because none but a .Protestant
a want of hospitality or with unfeeling can hold the Crown, that 1 see nothing
cruelty to those brave and excellent per- dangerous in the removal of Catholic
sons who have persevered, under every disabilities; since a Protestant sovereign
difficulty and discouragement, in perform- will have a selection of the great officers
ing their duty to their lawful though of State, and all the most influential
young and unfortunate sovereign. On servants of the Crown, so that the highest
that point I wish for a satisfactory expla- security will exist for the safety of the
nation; and I am far from saying that Protestant establishments of this country.
a satisfactory explanation may not be -But it is said, that' it is necessary, as a
given.-1 now come to that most impor- preliminary step to put down the'Catholic
tant topic touched upon at the close of Association. This is not the first time
his Majesty's Speech-the settlement of that such a declaration has been made,
Ireland; a measure which was an abso- and even acted on by a minister of the
lutely indispensable preliminary to the Crown. 1 hold with my noble friend, who
good government, the happiness, and the has recently returned from Ireland, the
prosperity of that country. When I see government of which he administered with
that a great good is in view, there is no- so much honour to himself, and who has
body that is less disposed to inquire criti- done so much for the establishment of
cally and scrupulously into the motives of tranquillity in that country-I hold with
those by whom the measures for effect, my noble friend, that there is 'one short
tuating that great good are to be proposed. way of suppressing the Association. I
It is sufficient for me to see that there is a will go further and say, that if that body
bonafide intention to adopt a course which be put down, the act of Suppression will
must be attended with the most bene- take place, not by the first of the proposed
ficial consequences. It is a high gratifi- measures, but by the second. The same
cation to me that now, at last, after par- attempt, however, I repeat, has been made
liament has for so many years turned a on former occasions, and made, as all will
deaf ear to the complaints of millions of remember, ineffectually. Andwhydidthe
his Majesty's subjects, the attention of the measures resorted to on those occasions
legislature is to be seriously called to this prove inefficacious ? Was it on account of
most essential topic of the settlement of anywantofsincerity,on iaccountofanywant
Ireland-a topic so essential, that when of capacity or zeal in the late lord Liver-
once the minds of men shall be turned, in pool ? Was it on account of any want of
good earnest, to the investigation, it is legal acuteness in the noble 16rd who then
impossible that it should terminate in any sat on the woolsack ? Was it on account
other than one way, and more particularly of any deficiency in the then learned
so when the consideration of the subject gentleman who filled the office of
if brought before parliament by his Ma- Attorney-general in Ireland, or of zeal in
jesty's ministers. I have always said, that the then lord lieutenant? Cbi tainly not.
this was the most proper mode of bring-. The bill for suppressing the Association
iag the measure forward, and it will be re- was irnfficacious, because it did not go to
collected that befoW I myself irouaght the the root of the evil, which aoIne -ustalitd






40 Address on te [ Fa
and,,gorishep ,tle Association. That
soci' t is connected radically, and by its
bitraat'es, with the %hole moral frame of
Ireland ; and it receives the sympathy and
affection of the people, because they have
no other way of making their wants and
wishli be heard, What description of
measure this is to be by which the Asso-
ciaiion is to be put down, whether it is a
bill' which, will at once enable the govern-
ment of Ireland to throw the members into
prison; whether it is a bill which shall
suspend the liberties of the subject gene-
rally, Ldo not profess to know. But I
am satisfied that, unless emancipation be
granted, the breaking up of the Associa-
tion will be only a sweeping away of the
cinders while the fire is left burning in the
volcano within, to break out afterwards
with greater danger; for how much more
dangerous is the element of national dis-
content when kept concealed and smoul-
derli;g, until at last it comes forth in an
eruption, which any government would
find it impossible perhaps to control. Let
no man, however, suppose that 1 am of
opinion that the Association is not a great
evil. No one in his senses can deny, that
a body self-constituted, unsettled in its
course, irresponsible for its acts, liable to
beC carried away by every breath, exercising
at the same time great moral influence
over the population, acting on the public
mind and acted on by it-no one in his
senses can deny that such a body is a
great evil. But is it not the only way of
getting rid of that evil, to divert the popu-
lar feeling, which is its support, from that
unconstitutional direction into constitu-
tional channels; to throw it not into the
Association, but into parliamentits natural
rtscrtoir, and where alone thepeople should
be taught to expect redress, when they
stand in need of it ? Such, your lordships
may be assured, is the only cure for an evil,
the existence of which is admitted by all.
I most cordially concur with the.noble lord
who seconded the Address, with a warmth
and justness of feeling which did him the
highest honour, in hoping, that the effect
of the known intention of government will
be to dissolve the Association. Let your
lordships recollect the circumstances which
produced that Association; that it was
produced by your lordships' repeated re-
fusals to lake the Catholic question into
consideration; let your lordships bear in
mind that, in 1812, when you refused to
consider the question, there was no Asso.-


. ] King's Speech. 4Q
ciation. In 1819, when a similar denial
was given, there was'no Association ; and
it was only after ic-peatEd ie'usals, and
a belief that those ret',jsals would be con-
tinued, that this violent-and if iome 'of
your lordships will so have it, nncon;titu-
tional, but after what has p.ased I cannot
say wholly useless-Association, was called
into existence. If the measure now in-
tended had passed years ago, thee' would
never have been an As.roci.tioi in eCiktence.
It was called into operation solely by re-
peated denials of justice. Those denials
brought on a state of things in Ireland,
the effects of which cannot be'contem-
plated without serious apprehension. They
caused those portentous contests between
religion and property in Ireland, which all
must deplore, as dangerous to the peace
and prosperity of the country. It is 6nly
to be regretted that the settlement of this
momentous question did not take place
long before this time. What immense
good would have been effected, if the ad-
vice of Mr. Pitt had been followed at the
time of the Union-advice which did
more honour to his memory as a statesman,
than any other advice which he gave, or
act which he did, during the long period
of his administration. The time, however,
is at length come, and I hail its arri\.il
with sincere satisfaction, when this system
is to be abolished. The measure now
recommended is one of such paramount
importance to the peace and security of
Ireland, and to the best interests of the
empire at large, that let it be introduced
by whomsoever it may, it shall receive my
most cordial support. The announcement
coming from the Throne, and supported
by the whole cabinet, makes me look on
the intended measure as on the eve of
accomplishment, for 1 feel confident that
ministers would not advise it, unless it was
their bond fide intention to give it their
best support. It would not merely be folly
but imadntis, and somcthii.g worse than
madness, to hold out hopes in such a
manner to seven millions of people, which
would not be realized. If after this
gracious recommendation from the Throne,
and this implied advice and support of the
cabinet, any obstacles shall be allowed to
frustrate the hopes so excited, the conse-
quences of the disappointment could
scarcely be foreseen or thought of without
the most alarming apprehensions. But I
cannot bring, myself to bc-lie e that any
serious obstacles will be allowed to stand






Address eintthe


[ COMMONS,]


King's Spee*k


irthe(sawy .of this.most salutary measure;
andi e.uifider-ntiy hope, that; the end: of-
the sessioi will' not, arrive, before the
subj4t. has been finally and happily de-
cided,:,
idtFAe Earl o' Aberdeen said, he rose
merely -to assure the noble marquis and
theiirlordships, that he should be ready,
on he, proper occasion, to go with him into
lhe fullest -.\anibination of all steps taken
by; government with respect to the subjects
in -question, -particularly the affairs of
Portugal.;i and he should be ready and
willing to furnish such explanations as he
had no doubt would not only justify them
to the Housei.but call from the noble mar-
quis'. approbation. as cordial as that
whigh: he -had bestowed upon the other,
measures mentioned in the Address.
He-should be able to prove, that every step
taken by this country, with respect to
Portugal, had been dictated by prudence
and justice.
The Address was then agreed to, nem.
diss..

1'ilOUSE OF COMMONS.
Thursday, February 5.
MINUTES,3 The SPEAKER acquainted the House, that
Jie bad received from Lord Combermere a letter, dated
'Head yIJnsIT., imrnlh, '.'Olth Im. 1828, inclosing a letter
"from Major-general Sir A..Campbell, in return to the
h Lanki of Le 1 ou.e ur Commons, for his conduct during
the? larI- -..reranr..- against the kingdom of Ava.-The
'SeAaika dequainted the House, that he had issued war-
ra8ts for New Writs, for Cumberland, in the room of
,J. C. Curwen, esq. deceased; and for Dartmouth, in the
room of Sir J. H. Cooper, bart. deceased.-The SPEAKER
acpiaainted the House, that certain Freeholders of the
n.r'at of Clar.. ho hari p iii:.r n. ., on the 22nd of July
L;t, a i r i'',ir..-,n n. rtijlm .-.i D. O'Connell, esq.,
11had rljlctkled t.nl.r ;or.w tihc nr.eL--ar Recognizances.-
Sir 'L. O'BRYAr presented a Petitionl from the said
Freeholders, praying, for leave to present a new Petition
against the said Election and Return, and for leave to
enter iltd the prescribed Recognizances. The Petition
-was broughtup, and the further consideration-thereon was
adjourned to Monday.-Sir JAMxs GRAHAM, Mr. G. BUR-
IARBD, Mr. SPENCER PERCEVAL, and Mr. W. EWART
*wre; sworn and took their Seats.-Mr. PLANTA moved
NeW Writs for Plymouth, Bath, and Edinburghshire, in
ihe roi,., of ; r G. Cockburn, the Earl of Brecknock, and
Sir G. CLi'ri., Co(mmissioners of the Admiralty; for Whit-
chtrch, in the room of thehon. J. R. Townshend, Groom
of thS Bedchamber; for Carlisle City, in the room of
Sir James Graham, who had accepted the Chilten Hun-
deeds i and for East Grinstead, in the room of the'
'Hon.c ~ CO.. C Jenkinson, now Earl of Liverpool,

ADDRESS 'ON THIE KING's SPEECH.],
The Speaker acquainted the House, that the
House ad beenfin the House of Peers, to,
hear the Speeeh of the Lords Commission4
erjs of which; itoprevent mistakes, he had
obtained a copy. After he had read it to
the..House,1, ; .


Lord Clive rose,; he said, tnS rPwV -,
humble Address to hisi Majuety, in answer
to his most gracious Speech, which they
had just heard, read. In doiqg. ioin~ ,
hoped it would sot be considered .lise-
spectful, either to the Houseis0r to .-4haV
royal Speech, if he departed .somewbat
from the usual course followed by those;
who had preceded him in ,the situation
which he then stood in, by not following:
in order the different topics made mention'
of in the Speech, but by proceeding at
once to make a few observations on what
appeared to him the most important of
those topics; namely, that which intro-.
duced to the consideration of the House, a
subject that had for some time -agitated
the mind of every man, fromone extremity
of the kingdom to another-the present
state of Ireland. It would not be neces-
sary for him, in making these observations,
to enter at any length into a history of the
causes of the present condition of that
country; indeed, it would not be. possible
for him to do so within the period which.
he felt himself justified to detain the
House, and, he would repeat, it was.-sot
necessary to the object which he had in
view. The last six months afforded
sufficient data to justify his cordial con-
currence with the recommendations of his
Majesty's Speech; and to that time. he
would confine his observations. Since
parliament had been prorogued, itwas a
fact too well known, that Ireland had been
in a state of daily increasing excitement
and confusion, arising from one cause or
other, between the two great parties .that
distracted that unhappy country. That
excitement and confusion had now reached
to such a height, that it would be impos-
sible for any man to say when anexplosioni
would take place, that would defy no
ordinary power to suppress, if circum-
stances were allowed to remain in their
present condition. That hbeiri. the unde-
niable state of affairs in Ireland, it became
a necessary duty of the House and. the
government, to consider the best course to
ursue, with reference to the empire at
large. He apprehended there was but
one course to pursue: it was not proper,
nay, it was not. possible, that the-state 'of
Ireland should continue ,as it then was.
With ,that.view, he tlought the 'course.
recommended in his Majesty's Speech; and
which ministers had determined to adopt;
the-best to meet existing difficulties, He
4als thought that that coursewaathe most






King's SprA. 5N!_


constitutional, and, what was -more; the
most traightobrwa'rd. under the 'cirtuam-
stftiiee6~t-the cas6, that ministers could'
advise their royal master to sanction, by
aniAt hing',thbis Speech to his parliament,
thd real state'of the difficulties which the
present state o' Ireland presented; relying
ontheir wisdom and support for the means
of adjusting them. Under these circum-
stances, it appeared to him, when it was
suggested to him to move the Address
which he should presently submit to the
House, that, considering the great anxiety
which the subject had occasioned to him,
though the part which he had hitherto
taken in its discussion was unostentatious,
that he should merely declare, that in con-
curring with the present views of ministers,
he felt as strongly and as anxiously as any
maircould do, for the welfare and support
of the Protestant church, from which he
considered the happiness and liberty we
enjoyed to have sprung. He thought it
right, however unwillingly he might feel
to take a part foreign from his usual
habits, to declare, that he considered the
course recommended tol be in the spirit of
the British constitution, and the one most
likely to prove beneficial to the empire,
under its present circumstances. "He felt
that Ireland should not-could not-
remain in its present distracted state. He
felt that it was hardly possible to expect a
government in whom more confidence
could be reposed. He felt that no fears
need be entertained from the views which
a subject like the state of Ireland pre-
sented to the illustrious duke at the
head of the government, and to his right
hon. friend, the ministerial leader of that
House. There could be no doubt, from
their character and avowed attachment to
the Protestant constitution of their coun-
try, that no measure would emanate from
them, at all likely to interfere with the
hallowed rights of the constitution in
church or state, or unaccompanied by full
and sufficient securities. Under that con-
viction, he felt it would be unbecoming in
him not, to take his share of the responsi-
bility of a measure, which circumstances
called for,' and which,: he was convinced,
would be beneficial':to' Ireland, and aw
source of general security to the empire.-
He 'confessed' he. felt great satisfaction
with' that part ofithe King's Speech which
alltdied t tthe Catholic' Association; for
he i6onsideted"that -bodyto 'be the parent
of the evils of Ireland, and felt convinced,


lthit until steps were lalen to-'put an ihd
to the violent proceedings by which ktlat,
body had excited the Catholic, and;:by itr
denunciation, the whole Protestant popula-
tion of Ireland, there could be no hope of
that calm and moderation,, whev h miist
precede the prosperity of that couitty.'
He was happy, therefore, that ministers
had determined upon suppressing that
body, and of thereby preventing ithe'
serious issue which its proceedings were
likely to have occasioned.; He wasa happy
that the injudicious advocates of the CathO-
lic claims would be prevented by their
agitations to augment the alarm whith
the more judicious had experiencediduring
the last six months. He was~glad of' a
measure likely to reconcile the interests
.and prejudices of all parties -t- hose
hitherto opposed to the Catholic claims,
and those zealous to secure for the Catho-
lics the full blessings of the British con-
stitution. He trusted, therefore, thatthose
gentlemen who generally advocated the
Catholic claims would support the Address
which he would have the honour that
evening to propose; for, though the steps
recommended by it did not go the full
extent of their wishes, yet still it advanced
their object. He hoped, also, to have the
support of those gentlemen who had
hitherto taken an opposite part; as he
thought it a reasonable expectation that
this subject could never be considered-
under a government better caleulatedito do
what was expedient than the present. It
was hardly possible that the Protestants
could ever hope to see two persons in
power more friendly to them than his right
hon. friend and the noble duke atthe head
of the Treasury. The next point to be
considered was, whether this was the
proper time for the discussion of the
question. In the first place, the state of
Ireland was such as clearly rendered
something necessary for its relief. It was
impossible that that country could continue
in the state in which it was at the present
moment. The people of Great Britain
were looking on with earnestness, expect-
ing parliament to take such measures as
they hoped would succeed in settling this
question. 'This was a state of things which
justified him in suggesting this, as-the
most proper .time: for inquiry. ,If 'the'
House looked abroad, they would'see ~still
more reason' to think that'Jthis'*as- the
time to enter upon' the sebijeet :l1he
Speech from the Throne lid inforited;l


49- A d~ws iwtheh~


fPEBW :*






A [o0M N wN]


tholnPthat the lking continue to receive
f1qtphie Allies,. and generally from all
princes rand states, the: assurance of their
utabated desire to: continue the most
friendly ,relations with his Majesty." No
furtherback than duiiug ihe last year, in
how iimany beneficial arrangements for
ranishid had his Majesty participated!
Under his mediation, a treaty of peace had
benalonela ded between the emperor of
Braxilantd the republic of Rio de la Plata.
Ris.Majesty had also entered intonegotia,
tiois with ihe liadd of the house of Bra.
go a, 'with the view of settling the
difficulties now existing in Portugal. The
steps taken, in conjunction with his Allies,
forl the ipacification of Greece, had been
aocsafiftl His Majesty had also succeeded
in concluding a Convention with Spain, for.
the settlement of British claims on that
country. All showed, that the foreign
relations of the country were on a pacific
footing, and therefore most favourable to a
conciliating adjustment of the state of
things in Ireland. In expressing his hope
that his Majesty's beneficent wishes for the
tranquillity and prosperity of all his sub-
jiets might be crowned with success, he
qould not but refer to the feeling manner
in which his Majesty suggested the pro-
priety of a full and perfect inquiry into
the whole condition of Ireland, with a view
to remove the civil disabilities of his Ro-
man Catholic subjects. While his Mlajesty
informed them, that the state of Ireland
had .been the subject of his continued
solicitude, and directed his commands,
that that state should be the subject of
their, serious inquiry, he, at the same time,
,t the most delicate -manner, urged upon
the attention of parliament the peculiar
situation which he stood in as guardian of
the Protestant religion in these realms-of
f institutions which must ever be held
sacred in this. Protestant, kingdom, and
which it is the duty and determination of
his Majesty to preserve inviolate." He
could not help referring to the eloquent
terms.in which his Majesty had expressed
his 'wishes, with respect to the caution
necessary to be observed in removing the
eivil'disa9lities of the Roman Catholics.
" Yeai will, consider," said. the royal
Speech, f whether the removal of these
disabilities ican be effected, consistently
witi~Alhe full and permanent security of
oa: establishment, in Church. and State,
with the maintenance of the reformed
religion established by law, and the rights


and pivilege ,of the bi hipps,qt .qfj
clergy of ,the realm, and of the. calMrelj4
committed to th: ir chage.",.g.' .. tIruotid
the House would bear in miind.the iscnir
nments embodied in the King's Spjeeh,
when approaching the dicuspain o.f,the
momentous question to which he had ju.At
directed their attention; particularly that
part lof it where his Majesty, "rpmst
earnestly recommends to you to eater
upon the discussion of suhject.of such
paramount importance, deeply interesting
to the best feelings of his people,, and
invol ing the tranquillity and concord of
the united kingdom, with the temper and
the moderation which will best ensure the
successful issue of your deliberations."
There was but one other topic upon which
he would comment, as he believed it was
the only one on which a difference of
opinion could exist; namely, the innate
energies of the British constitution. He
firmly believed that when the subjects
required it, nothing was too dlfficult I or
the British constitution and therefore,
that there could be no fears th;it its enei-
gies could be spent, by measures.like, to
that he had been advocating. Upon that
point he could speak with some confidence
It was then somewhat more than sixteen
years since he had addressed the Hquse in
a similar capacity to that which ha then
presented himself in ; and he appealed to
all around him whether the country ever
had a more trying period. No person, how-
everhostile to the then administration, could
have anticipated the extraordinary events
of the year 1813 ; and no person, however
friendly to the government, could have
anticipated the present state of Europe..
The British army, under the illustrious
individual who was beyond his panegyric,
had marched from the frontiers of Portu-
gal to the frontiers of France, when
Buonaparte once more roused and ani,
mated the hopes of his admirers by the
victories of Bautzen and Lutzen. Then it
was feared by some, that the..energies of
the British nation were unequal to the
renewed conflict. But, what was, .the
fact? Let the victory of Vittoria answer
the question,-a victory that awakened
the spirits of the British people-gained
under one:who then gave peace to his
country, and who, at the present moment,
waspngaged in the same noble achieve.
ment. He took the liberty of introducing
that subject to the notice.of the, Hause,
because it proved, that the meaas of.the


A dm -njje


King's Speai.






Kin's Spaeol&., 54


British empire were equal to all its legiti-
mate efforts, and because it appeared to
him a good omen that. the same powerful
mind that then conducted British energies
to a glol ious issue, was at present engaged
in giving peace to the British empire. He
would, not trespass on the attention of the
House any further than to express his best
thanks for its attention to him, and to
repeat his conviction, that never were
circumstances more favourable to a final
settlement of the affairs of Ireland than
the present. He implored the favourable
support of the House to the Address he
was about to submit to it, and hoped, as
all had the same object in view, that all
would join him in saying, God prosper the
efforts that are intended for its attainment!
The noble lord concluded with moving,
That an humble Address be presented
to his Majesty-to return his Majesty our
humble thanks for the gracious Speech
which his Majesty has directed to be
delivered by the lords commissioners :
To assure his Majesty, that we learn
with the highest satisfaction, that his Ma-
jesty continues to receive from his Allies,
and generally from all princes and states
the assurance of their unabated desire to
cultivate the most friendly relations with
his Majest) :
"To congratulate his Majesty, that
under his royal mediation the preliminaries
of a treaty of peace between his imperial
majesty the emperor of Brazil and the
Republic of the united provinces of Rio de
la Plata have been signed and ratified:
"To thank his Majesty for having di-
rected to be laid before us a copy of aq
Convention which his Majesty has con-
cluded with the king of Spain for the final
settlement of the claims of British and
Spanish subjects preferred under the treaty
signed at Madrid on the 12th March
1823; and to assure his Majesty that he
may rely upon our readiness to assist his
Majesty in executing the provisions thereof:
To assure his Majesty, that we parti-
cipate in the regret felt by his Majesty
that his diplomatic relations with Portugal
are still necessarily suspended, and to
thank his Majesty for the intimation that,
deeply interested in the prosperity of the
Portuguese monarchy, his Majesty has
entered into negotiations with the head of
the House of Biaganza, ia the hope of
terminating a state of affairs which is
incompatible with the permanent tran-
qillity W4W welfare of Porkigal:


To express to his Majesty our *grati-
tude for the information that his Majesty
has laboured unremittingly to fulfil the
stipulations of the treaty of -the 6tlJ41ly
1827, and to effect in concert nvith his
Allies, the pacification of Greece ; and
that the Morea has been liberatedfoorn the
presence of the Egyptian and Turkish
forces :
To express to his Majesty our satisfac.'
tion that this important object. has been
accomplished by the successful' exertions
of the naval forces of his Majestyand of
his Allies, which led to a conueition \irth
the pacha of Egypt, and finally, by the
skilful disposition and exemplary coridnet
of the French army, acting by the com-
mands of his most Christian majesty on
the behalf of the alliance:
"To thank his Majesty for having in-
formed us that the troops of his most
Christian majesty, having completed the
task assigned to them by the.Allies, have
commenced their return to France; and to
assure his Majesty that we fully participate
in the satisfaction expressed by his Majes,
ty, that, during the whole of these opera-
tions, the most cordial union has subsisted
between the forces of the three powers by
sea and land:
To express to his Majesty, our deep
regret at the continuance of hostilities
between the emperor of Russia and the
Ottoman Porte:
"To thank his Majesty for acquainting
us that his imperial majesty, in the prose-
cution of those hostilities, has considered
it necessary to resume the exercise of his
belligerent rights in the Mediterranean,
and has established a blockade of the
Dardanelles:-And to express our satis-
faction at learning, that from the operation
of this blockade those commercial enter-
prises of his Majesty's subjects have been
exempted, which were uindeit3aken upon
the faith of his Majesty's declaration to his
parliament respecting the neutrality of the
Mediterranean sea:
To assure his Majesty, that we have
heard with high gratification, that although
it has become indispensable for hip Majesty
and the king of France to suspend the
co-operation of their forces with those of
his imperial majesty, in consequence of
this resumption of the exercise',of his
belligerent lights, the best understanding
prevails between the three powers in their
endeavours to accomplish the resuaining
objects of the treaty of Lond w;


Address-onr the


[ FEB. 5 ]






55 Address on the [COMMONS, ] King's Speech. 56
- "' Frqtrne our .ac~noul dgmniclt to his -' "That,. feeling, with his M4iesty;' con-
M]ajesty for, having ordered ,the estimates vinced that.,these are: i:stit~rt a wbhid
fot the current year to be laid before us; must, ever be .held sacred in this a rrtesr
id (q[assure his Majesty that lie may rely taut kingdom, we cordi-lly thank hji MIa-
9; our,readiness to ratIt the necessary jesty for the declaration,;~ thaf.p deemh
supplies'widt a just regard to the exigen- it to be his duty, and that it is his d~et
cizspf the public service, and to the mination, to preserve them ipviolate-
economy which his: Majesty is anxious to To assure his Majesty, :that this, H0us
erforcein every department of the state: will, in obedience to his Majesty's gre-
"To expre's to his Majesty our satisfac- cious recommendation, enter: upon the
tiponatthe continued improvement of the consideration of a subject of such para-
rqenue5,,and more particularly at the pro- mount importance, deeply interesting to
gressie ;ncrcase in that branch of it the best feelings of his people, and in-
which is derived from articles of internal evolving the tranquillity and conodord of
consumption, aff:rditig a decisive indica- the United Kingdom, with the temper
tion of the stability of the national re- and the moderation which will best en-
sourcel, and of the increased comfort and sure the successful issue of our dehbera-
prosperity of his people: tions."
."ToP assure his Majesty, that this House Lord Corry said, he rose to second the
is deeply sensible :of the paternal solici- motion, which had been so ably brought
tdCeexpressed by his Majesty on the sub- forward by the noble lord; that it. would
ject o reland: be needless in him to trespass but for a
,'IThat we paitic;pate in the concern very short time,on the attention of the
expressedby his Majesty at the'conti- House. He would proceed at once to
nued existence in that part of the United remark briefly upon the principal topics
Kingdom of an Association which is dan- of the king's Speech. It was most gra-
gerous to the public peace, and incon- tifying to him to learn, that the foreign,
sistent with the .pirit of the constitution, relations of the country were so pacific,
which ,keeps alive discord and ill-will and that, notwithstanding the apprehen-
namongst his Majesty's subjects, and which sions that were entertained last year of
must, if permitted to continue, effectually the effects of the hostilities between, the
obstruct every effort permanently to im- emperor of Russia and the Ottoman
prove.the condition of Ireland: Porte, peace was not, probably, distant,
".'fo thank his Majesty for the confi- and that the pacific course pursued by
dence which. he is pleased to express in his Majesty's ministers tended to uphold
the support of his parliament, and to the dignity of the Crown and advance
assure his Majesty that we will, without the prosperity of the empire. He trusted
delay,, proceed to the consideration of that, notwithstanding his Majesty had
such; measures, as may be necessary to found it necessary to suspend his diplo.
enable his Majesty to maintain his just matic relations with Portugal, the nego-
authority: tiations going on with the head of -the
".To assure .his Majesty, that we will House of Braganza would lead 'to the
give the. most, respectful attention to his pacification of that country. It was also
Majesty's recommendation that, when this gratifying to find that the treaty of July',
essential object shall have been accom- 1827, had been so successfully acted upon,
polished5 -we should take. into our deli- that the Morea was freed from, the pre-
berate consideration the whole condition, sence of the Egyptian and Turkish forces
of Ireland. and- that we should review and it was a source of additional gratifica-
the laws which impose civil disabilities on tion to hear of the cordial union between,
his Majesty's Roman Catholic subjects: the great powers employed in carrying the
,.f That we will consider ;whether the treaty into effect. The. next topic ofconB-
renosp al.. f those disabilities can be ef- gratulation was the revenue. It, must, be
faetedi-consistently with the. full and per- gratifying to the House to hear,: that not-
maneni t secnr'ityv ( ofur establishments in. withstanding the gloomy apprehensions
Church and State, htiih thl mainteninrce of entertained last year of the resources of
thkrwefmfimdreligionestabl-ishedbylaw, and the country, the revenue has progressively
ofeE*h eight* and priilege~ of itb bishops, improved, particularly in thnt branch of
andoe ihe elergy of this ra.lm, and of the it derived from internal consumptiou--the
churches committed to their charge; strongest proof of the stability of those re-





King's Speech. 58


sources, an, of the improving condition
of all class *of h?s Majesty's 'sl jets.
'hait keittitffsance; conjoined' with the
prudential economy practised by ministers,
in.redurihg the expenditure of the state
within wholesome limits, was a source of
great gratification; The last topic he
wouldallude to was the part of the Speech
whicl- referred to Ireland. He was aware
that that was not the proper opportunity
for discussing the causes of the evils of
that country ; and he would only observe,
that they could no longer be allowed to
remain as t.ley were, and that it was a
great satisfaction to him to hear that it
wai intended to arm ministers with power
to put down the Catholic Association.
As long as that seditious-body existed, so
long would anarchy and confusion be pa-
ramount in Ireland. It was a body that,
arrogating to itself the form, and even
the powers of parliament, served to inflame
the worst passions of the people, and to
retard; if not destroy, the prosperity of
that country. The evil consequences of
that Association had reached to such a
height, that it could no longer be tolerated;
and either the laws must be obeyed, or
disunion and anarchy be triumphant. As
he considered that Association to be the
parent evil of Ireland, he trusted the
House would determinedly apply itself to
the rooting out of the evil. But a far more
important part of the Speech yet remained
to be noticed. He alluded to his Majes-
ty's recommendation to consider the laws
imposing civil disabilities on his Roman
Catholic subjects, with a view to their re-
moval. His opinion as to the policy of
removing those disabilities was registered,
by the votes he had given. He had al-
ways opposed the Catholic claims, be-
cause they never came before him with
sufficient securities for the integrity of the
Protestant constitution of this country, and
he would 'to-morrow oppose any measure
with a similar objection, no matter from
what quarter it emanated. But, though
that was his early and matured opinion,
when he considered the state of Ireland,
placed on the brink of a civil war, when
men of every party felt alarmed and doubt-
ful of their course, an4 when he considered
that such men as the illustrious duke at
the head of the government, and the right.
hon. the Secretary of State for the Home
Department, whom all looked up to as the
tried champions of the Protestant cause,
and in whose integrity all placed implicit


confidence, declared that concession was
essential to the safety and well-being of
the Protestant church itself, and that sbmie
attempt therefore at concession inoit ti
made, he would confess that he- :rdd 6
feel inclined to put hiimn~tlf in opposition
to their declaration; and he therefore,
consented, cheerfully dad willingly, to'go
into the investigation of the subject, to see
whether something could not be done to
satisfy the views and feelings of both par-
ties. But, in admitting this principle, hi
begged to be distinctly understood as un-
willing to go any further. He was by no
means prepared to pledge himself to any
measure that might be bought forward,;
though at the same time, as an Irishmair
and as one, therefore, who ftlt deeply in-
terested in the welfare and happiness of
that country, he should rejoice at seeing
such a measure brought forward as would
prove satisfactory to his mind. But, while
he said this, he reserved to hinmsibl the
right of scrutinizing any measure 'that
might be brought forward, and of opposing
it, as he had done the former ones, if it
did not appear to him to olTer suffiient
security for the preservation of the 'Protes-
tant constitution of these realms.
Sir Joseph Yorke said, that since the
olden times of Napoleon Bonaparte down
to the modern times of Daniel' O'Connell,
never had he heard from the Throne a
speech so politic or one embracing -so
much matter; or one that produced so
many feelings of joy in his mind. What
could be more delightful than to find that
the government itself had taken up the
important measure. Although he, for one,
had been opposed to Catholic emancipation;
yet he always thought that the Irish people
should be placed on a footing, so as toform
an integral part of the nation, and contri-
bute to the solid strength of the empire; and
to any measure, having in view such afn
object, he was ready to give his cordial
assent. But the present Speech was so
comprehensive in its nature-so compris-
ing all sorts and sizes of men and things;
whether they looked to the Austrians' or
the Russians, the Ottoman Porte, or'Ca-
tholic Emancipation, that its effect cold
not be otherwise than extremely jiyouys.
He. was also delighted to hear that our-
fiiaiices ncl'e flouri;hin.-, and that e'ono-s
my was to be the order of thedaay, *iWithi
respect to the great rquestJon o f emanci-
pation, he 'would pass it ovir for the pirel
sent;' e-'pecilly al't.r the way in which it


Address on thb


[FEB. 5.]


L






S[COMMONS, 3


had been' taken up by. the tioble lord who
badi aeooded thoaiddtress--a way which
did infinite honour to him as an Irishman,
as.well as for the facility with which he
had treatedd the subject. He had never
tieard! a more. moderate harangue or a
bdttets one; :The: manner in which that
noble~ tord had performed his task was
guarded and circumspect; for he did
Botrday that he was prepared to go the
wholb-length of what might be proposed,
IMt -resefed to himself the right to make
such exceptions as he might think fit.
Satchwas the case with himself; and he
should wish 'to consider the whole pro-
posal before he pledged himself to any-
thing, though he was at the same time
satisfied 'that when the ministry of the
country thought it right to concede the
point, he for one ought to give way.
The Catholic Association itself, if it had
tay braids in its head, or any feeling in
its hbartj, ought to see, that the, best
thing it could do, as soon as:the present
,Speech-should reach Ireland, would be
to anticipate any measure of the parlia-
ment. The Catholic Association had now
nothing to, do but to shut up its doors;
to put one of Bramah's best patent locks
upon it, and to throw the key somewhere,
where it should never be heard of again.
Having said thus much,he would make way
-for greater orators than himself. He had
statedfirmly and distinctly what he meant;
and would only add, that he was ready to
go heart- and hand with ministers, in any
measure that they might bring forward
for securing the tranquillity of Ireland.
Mr. Bankes rose to express his regret,
that s6me explanation had not been
afforded by his Majesty's ministers, as to
the measure which they intended to bring
under the consideration of the House. He
wished to know what that measure was.
He was anxious that ministers should state
precisely the course which they called upon
the House to adopt. He had heard the
Address read. It was large and ample.
It referred to many measures and many
things. Was it, he would ask, again
intended to take the whole question of the
state of Ireland into consideration ? Was
the House anew to enter upon a question
Which had been so often before them; or
*as !it 'now to 'be brought under their
notice'in 'the shape of a government mea-
sd~e? If Tso; hd'was desirous to know
frori his Majesty'seministers, candidly and
honestly, what measure it was their inten-


tion to propose. The House had a right
to. know it; tnd the country, through
them, had a right to know it. ie should
have thought, seeing his right honifriefds
opposite still in their places, .that~:ertoin
rumours as to a changein' their sentiuamets
-rumours so public that they iudt- be
known to all, and sostiongthat they could
scarcely be doubted-were, nevertheless,
unworthy of credit. He trusted that their
continuance in office as a safe pledge for
the maintenance of our Protestant estab-
lishment. Indeed, he was unwilling to
believe any rumours unfriendly:to them.
Still, he wished to ascertain from them-
selves their sentiments as to the measure
which it was stated to be their intention to
introduce to the House. He was anxious
to know whether their opinions.'on- the
question had undergone a sudden ohane';
and he would only take the fact fromsth6ir
own mouths. It was of the deepest ih-
terest to every man in that House 'and' in
the country, that their real intentionton
the subject should be known. He did
not blame those hon. members who had
taken a different view of this question of
Catholic emancipation from that which
appeared to him to be the correct one : no
doubt they had done so honestly and con-
scientiously. But he thought otherwise
when he heard of a change of opinion,
occurring in a shorttime, and without any
change of circumstances [hear]. He would
repeat-without any change of circtm-
stances, by which it cduld be justified.
With regard to the Catholic Association,
had not the existence of that body been
for a long time a crying grievance ? Just
four years ago parliament was called upon,
almost in the same language which was
now used, to put that Association down;
and, during the last four years, their
Statute-book contained an act'passed for
the purpose of putting it down. Was it
not, then, the duty of government to en-
force the law and put down the AssBeia-
tion ? But it might be replied that the
act passed for that purpose had been found
insufficient. If so, it was obviously the
duty of government to call upon parliau
ment to strengthen their hands, and enable
them effectually to extinguish that violent
and factious body. That would have been
the direct, and honest, 'and honourable
mode of doing the thing. But, after all,
was this intended to be a tort of cormpro-
mise? Was it to be said to, the Irish
agitators that if they would assist, in


:0 Addres aii gh


Kiig'e> SpCiekh.





VI Address on the


putting dlwn. the .Catholie, Asociation,
their' other. desires should be ,met and,
admitted:? If that was to:be the compro-
mine, he mrist sayrthatit was abase mode
of achieviiigthatoQbject. Itvwas the duty
of'ga ernmenA long ago to put down the
Catheic Association ; but, the truth was,
that:it wksnow too, late to do s---" treason
had done its worst" [hear I and a laugh]
-4t had done its work, and it was through
the -spirit of intimidation that this door
to emancipation had been opened. He
begged, therefore, to know distinctly,
before he was called upon to give his vote,
what the measure really was, that he was
expected to sanction. He was well aware,
that, by agreeing to the Address, he should
not be, in any degree, pledged to any
measure hereafter. The Speech from the
Throne did not call upon them to pledge
themselves to any specific measure; and
the noble seconder had said, that he should
give ,his consideration to the measure
whenever'it should be introduced, and
that he should consider himself perfectly
at-liberty to vote against it, if he should
think proper so to do. This would be all
very well, if it were a doubtful measure;
but the fact was, that the subject had been
before the House for the last twenty years!
lagenuity had been exhausted on the
question, so that there did not seem to be
any further room for consideration. They
were perfectly aware of what the Roman
Catholics demanded; but, on the other
hand, he wished to ask broadly and dis-
tinctly whether it was intended, for the
sake of conciliation, to givepolitical power to
the Catholics ; and, above all, he wished to
know whether it was intended to give them
what was the real key to all political
power--the right of holding seats in the
two Houses of parliament? That was a
plain and distinct question, which he
wished to be as plainly and distinctly
answered, With regard to himself, he
might say, that his conduct would be di-
rected by that answer. He would take
upon himself boldly to state, that he
was. never in his life more firmly convinced
of-any thing,' than that if seats in parlia-
mentshould be conceded to the Roman
Catholies; it. .would be the .means of de-
strayingtliate Church whichh they ere all
S!i:much bbund to: revere;! and that' 'it
would1 be iinpossible for th- Prote.tant
Chprch ini Irelandto stand' many years
after su'h ha concession [hear]. :'Againhe
said,,he wa~ desirous of 'knowing to, what


they were calledtipon tOpledgethemsel b,
ind his conduct should be theregulated
accordingly. : *:. i ib
Sir R. H, Inglis said, he was pifaectly
aware that the termra," td con$idar Fu:ih
common-sense English, meant "' t itakie
into consideration." -He .ould'appeatho
the hon. baronet, 'the, member fdr WMest-
minster, if he happened to be :prmsBnrpr
to any other hon. member whbo adopted
his views of the Catholic questionowhether
in any discussion of it in that House,, the
term "consideration" did not in-his mind,
and in the mind of the House land zthe
country mean concession?" [hear;'heai].
Would any man tell him that: stch ~was
not the meaning of the phrase:? andthhat
concession meant nothing more btwdess
than the prostration of Protestantmtimat
the feet of the Roman;Catholics. .Then
he would say, that if suoh was the t'nd4-
standing of every one in that House,Bwas
he not entitled to ask--and he asked it not
in the spirit of idle curiosity, butin the spirit
of that constitutional jealottsy which, asa
member of that House, he was bound to
exercise-was he not, he said, entitled to
ask, what was meant by this measure?
Under what circumstances was-itthat. the
measure was bought fIrward ? Hisnoble
friend who moved the Address had edn-
fined himself entirely to the events of the
six previous months, as a justification ef
the course which his Majesty'srimlniters
had determined to pursue. Adcordingito
the noble lord, the question was so simpli-
fied, that it was impossible for ministers to
adopt any other view of it. Was it to be
gathered from this, that the system of in-
timidation which had been. carried on in
Ireland had led to this result? ,He for
one was not clear thatmuch weight ought
to be attached to the expression of popular
opinion at public meetings, upon: difficult
and abstruse qitUstions. \\hen such ques-
tions as the Corn-laws and Padiamentary
Reform, which, as they knew, involved la
change in the existing state of the Ow,
had formed the subjects. of discussion, he,
for one, had never considered a public
meeting as the fairest and best mode eof
giving expression to the .pblict' voice.
But it was a totally d;flerent opinion' tapn
which the public voice had' beenrexpressed
during the last sixi months in.England,
almost universally, 'andin- Irland, also:
The,people of E;iglin'd prayed nbt-ifor
any change in the .constitntidi ofi these
realms, but simply for:'.its onsevationc


MM91,9 *eEohl..


[Fet.51, I







They.praved, ;th tiet:Irotstanticonsti- sat down, that he .entused ato. obtrude
ttiotyljhf i teyS;,inheritedr i from their himself on the House. I..Duingt.thfe ihte
ac~l.it4 ,ti d ,whilhrhe, trusted .they period; and; that&nc'~ hbrtio~idythdtaile
.would defend with 'their livps, .might be hadhad thehonou-refi seatiibthatitooase,
a4l pO4teriqy. :'That. was their sole and sim- liament with feelings,-of -suditsatisoaetion
pg S ayeo, .it t,,was his strong convio- andconsolation as n:A he paesentoaesio n.
tioe, thlt the only sufficient security for To think :that, in one momeatPe i' had
thaOcipanstitution consisted in the existing seen an end put to that magic~pell,'whidh
sateo.f things. He was also convinced, had so long alarmed mahyn andiwhich
t.hatif.ay changee was necessary in the ex- seemed still to haunt' the imaginations of
i3tig. state ofthings in Ireland, the course the hon. baronet and: the hen. member
which the government ought to pursue for Dorsetshire-to find.that:it had'-been
n-as.at once clear and obvious. It was a all at once annihilated, waas Endeedi; to
most serious charge against his Majesty's him a subject of the greatest.satisfaetion.
gwvrament,. that they had! allowed to When he said annihilated", he:'spoke
continueundecided, until the prorogation with some degree of authority_ arid.a;ot
of, parliament :such :a question as .that merely upon the strength of public ruminr.
arisingout of the county Clare election. His noble friend who had vmoved'the.ad,
They should .at. once have decided that dress mast know as well as he kiewi that
question~ by a strong and summary mea- he had been hitherto decidedly opposedlin
saree lest, that election should have been opinion to him (lord Milton): upon the
carried into. a precedent; as he was con- question of Catholic emancipation.:,lIt
vwyced,it might have been most fatally, was, therefore, most honourable' to 'his
if thplife of one human being had fallen noble friend, and to those acting with'him
in .theinterval which had elapsed since on this occasion, that, taking'a wise view
the termination of the last session of par- of the necessities of the country; they were
liamenta If the, person, to, whom the able to do that which if their great leader
House.must perceive he alluded, had died had left undone, he would not have, as he
during that period, :and. if a new parlia- now had, attained to the highest pinnacle
nient, had in consequence been called, the of honour. Then he would have -only
example-afforded by.the county of Clare conquered the foreign foe; but now,,he
might have beenrepeated in other parts of had achieved a victory-not, certaifily
hIelad; and it was therefore obviously so dazzling to the vulgar, but more-useful
the duty of the.government not to allow and important to the country than -the
such an example to continue in existence, battle of Waterloo itself, inasmuch as-the
Was ei now to be told that his, Majesty's victories.of peace were more useful' and
ministers had yielded to the intimidation more glorious than the trophies of war.
of a body like the Clare people, consisting The noble duke, and his nobleolleague
of someof the lowest orders in the south opposite, had obtained a victory over:'wa't
of Ireland, and of the lawyers in Dublin- he might be permitted to callvtheir pre-
to, the intimidation of men who had ap- judices. He used not the word in an
preached as nearly as possible to rebellion ? offensive sense. He spoke of Prejudices-1-
And, whom had they intimidated ?. Six of honest, conscientious jpr-judicei-which
months ago,, it would scarcely have been; it was Honourable f jr rn to entertain ;
supposed that such a species of ,intimi- and he was rejoiced to see thoseswhich
dation would have induced the noble duke, had been so long entertained by his noble
at. the bead of affairs in thisc'auintry; not and hon. friends oppQsite at length abani,
only to abandon his opposition teCatholic doned. He would not at present entei
emancipation, but: even to -hcome :its into a minute consideration of the phraseI
advocate. Before -the House proceeded ology employed in the royal Speech,, or
to 'take: the, subject into consideration, in theAddress. He should advert, however,
they had a right to.know whatimeasure it for a moment,: to two measures which
wasiwhich:his Majestys ministers intended' were reeouimended'by his-:Majesty-:: the.
to propose, and to that question he'ror one one, the putting down of theU'Catih'oli
expected a eliaiie and specitic answer. Association; the othtr, the carrying of
bord Mltoi said,. it was with feelings what was cortrbnl~ called,,athbl tJ fiati
oiSl utetdiyoaiopositernatue to those ex- -eipatioft. H ee1c, ivewedi hattish firstlof
prIsead bythehon. baronet, th9 had just 'these reaatuies 'TecoamiEtiied fromf thie


Aid~ keas47oO t he,


King's Spkech.


I C~;MWIO;NS, i






' Addiesi onhel,


' Thbrne was, tbeveondition apon which the
noble lord. who .moved the Address, and
lUisfiends; had; 'given their assent to the
second, and that, unaccompanied by it,
Athe, measure "o emancipation would still
;eneoulterrthkeir'opposition. He, for one,
did not see ,the necessity of passing a bill
for the extinction of the Association; for
theifact' was,i that the granting of eman-
cipation would at once put down that
body.:. The truth.was, that the. Association
only existed because the Catholics re-
mained unemancipated. Take away that
grievance, and the Association would im-
mediately fall to the ground. Indeed, if it
appeared, as he did not doubt but it would,
that the recommendation from the Throne
wasbondjfide made in the spirit of fair-
ness.and.conciliation, he was certain that
the Catholic Association would not re-
quire to be put down. It would then be
no longer in existence. He had thus
taken the liberty of expressing the senti-
ments which he entertained on this oc-
casion. He would only say, that when-
ever his Majesty's government brought
forward a proposal to that House, to carry
the great question, of Catholic emancipa-
tioni, ihey would meet with all the sup-
port, which he, in his individual capacity,
could atfbrd them. With regard to the
measure for putting down the Association,
he would not conceal the fact, that it was
a.measure of which he could not approve.
But if it, should be followed by emancipa-
tion, he would not oppose it; lest his
opposition should be attributed to factious
or party motives, or to a suspicion lurking
in his-mind, that the other measure in-
tended to be inLroduced by government,
ansi for which he gave them the greatest
credit, would not be a fair and honest
removal of all the disabilities affecting the
Roman Catholics.
Mr, Maurice Fitzgerald said, he could
not refrain as an Irishman, from express-
ing the:feelings of delight and satisfaction
which he entertained on this occasion.
From the first moment, indeed, that the
duke; of Wellington had taken upon
himself the h;gh office which,he at pre-
sent filled,, he .cnidered him as the man
of -all, others, thf best calculated to carry
this great measure : andiihe waswwell con-
vij~d tthat: the noble duke, would not
suffer country in, whose.,happiness, and
prosperity, be was -so much interested, to
remain i:the ,state of distractionn and; di-,
vision which: ;rmlaadnow exhibited. -Air
VOL. XX.


hen. baronet hadi attributed the measute
which was about ,toeemaniate rtoer thtbO-
vernment to intitnidation ;' but ,vwhii6u.lha
named the duke of Wedlitigtorina thwily-
dividual intimidated, the hori. baronet 'hid
sufficiently answered 'hinmsdlf. If that
were not conclusive, he would say, tfin'g
into account the wisdom of th' noble
duke, and his knowledge of the ournthy;
that the recommendation from the Throne
originated from a feeling the very opposite
to intimidation. The duke of Wellington
could not be intimidated; but, Whilehe
would never give way to such a feeling;
it was not to be supposed that:he was
to be debarred from yielding to the united
demands of the people of Ireland, iftehd
imagined that the refusal of those-dwapnds
would be fraught with danger to the em-
pire at large. There had been violence'
exhibited in this country, too, but'of '
different character, and the agitators here
had been of a different class from that of
the agitators in Ireland. .But if 'su h
feelings as had been exhibited in-thiscoun.i
try during the last six months:had:been
suffered to continue in active operation)
there was little doubt but they musty-id
the end, have produced nothing shorteof~
civil war. He was convinced that if:thb
duke of Wellington had not interposed;
the faction in this country and' their cor-
responding party in Ireland would have
brought matters to such a pass, tlha it
would have been absolutely necessary for
the government to have interfered to pre&
vent a civil war. He believed that.th6
wise and well-founded alarm, arising
from such a. frightful state of things%
had produced the present measure. :.The
honourable baronet, who 'had recently
addressed the House, had-ob-erved, that
there were.-some questions of such:.an
abstract nature, and so difficult of. co6m
prehension, that he never wished tod6see
them submitted to the consideration of the
great body of the- people;. For instance,
the hon. baronet would not on. any ac'-
count/appeal to their opinions on the sub-
ject, of whether they had or had: ot.deas
puted any partieular.person to represent
them. in parliament, or whether they felt
that they obtained:sufficient food toisatisfy
the cra ings of..their appetites. ,Upon
such a delicately abstruse:iquestion 4asas.wle
their a poor~nman -cbuld Adeteemini~ieupoa:-
the fullni.ss of his belly,. the eadibiooriet
was unwilling to consent that there should
be any appeal to the grea&tbody bf--the
D


[EFET.:5.1


King?,g speea.-






Ad's eputh. a,


people. Oh, no! upon -such abstruse,
difficult and recoidite-subjects, the hon.
baronet would more than distrust the de-
chiion of a, popular assembly. But in
such ,simple matters as polemics and
school divinity, or such questions as whe-
ther the faith of the Catholics could be
reconcileable with their allegiance to their
sovereign--upon these simple and obvious,
and plain matter-of-fact-questions, he
would appeal to the opinion of the mob,
and he would rely upon their decision.
Accordingly, in those districts in which
the hon. baronet, and those who thought
with him, possessed influence, such mobs
had been collected to discuss such ques-
tions. It was to prevent the lamentable
effectW that must inevitably have followed
such frct.ous and violent proceedings,
that the government were compelled at
k ngth to interfere, to save the country
from a civil war, and to render Ireland a
source of security and strength to the em-
pire. He felt that, as an Irishman, he
should be disgraced if he abstained from
bestowing his humble tribute of praise
upon those ministers from whose recom-
mendations such benefits must spring;
for. he was confident that every landed
proprietor of that country who now heard
him must unite in the feeling, that the
course now about to be pursued would,
by adding to the prosperity of England,
give security to property in Ireland.
Every intelligent mind in the country
must, indeed, admit, that all landed pro-
perty was from that moment incomparably
raised in value. The measure afforded
him still further satisfaction, as it pre-
sented an additional security for every one
of the Protestant institutions in Ireland;
and he believed that after the passing of
such a measure, those institutions in that
country could then, for the first time in
his memory, be said to rest upon a solid
foundation. It was upon; these grounds
that it would meet ,with his cordial and
hearty concurrence. Under these circum-
stances, he considered that this notice of
the Catholic Association had come rather
late; for he thought the probability was,
that upon any intention being manifested
to,grant the claims of the Roman. Catho-
lics, the Association would immediately
give. p: its functions. Indeed, he con-
sidered: that the very recommendation
from .the, Throne was a virtual dissolution
af oe
SThe 'Marqui of Chand said, he should


betray the:confidence reposed,,in dit ibhy
his constituents, if he did notatainocide*'
clare his determination to oppoa i steo thie
utmost o, his power, all further conces,
sions to the Roman Catholics. Notwith-
standing the recommendation. contained
in the Speech from the Throne, and the
respect he entertained for his Majesty's
ministers he felt himself bound to declare,
that the opinions which he entertained on
this question-opinions formed after the
most mature consideration-remained un-
altered; and that as long as he had a seat
in that House, he was resolved to oppose
with his vote and with his voice, any at-
tempt to surrender the privileges-of our
Protestant constitution. It was exceed-
ingly painful for him to differ in senti-
ments from his Majesty's ministers-from
his noble friend in another place, and from
his right hon. friend below him-but he
could assure them, that the same con-
.scientious feelings which, had induced
:him to support their measures, under other
circumstances, now impelled him, as ani
honest man, to oppose any proposition
for granting political power to the Roman
Catholics. He hoped, after what;hadtaken
place that night, that the peopleof this coun-
try would take the question into their im-
mediate consideration, and that they would
come forward and express their sentiments,
from one end of the countryy to the oth,-r.
If the establishments of our ancestors were
to be trifled with, and a new constitution
was to be now. given to the country, he sawr
no reason why the example might not be
more extensively acted upon, and why we
might not hereafter, annually or trien-
nially, review and reverse all the institu-
tions of the state. He regretted to have
been obliged to trouble the House with
this short expression of his sentiments;
but he felt it a paramount duty openly to
express his opposition to the proposed
measure.
Mr. Brownlow said, that, although per-
haps, he had on this occasion indulged in
over-excited expectations, which extrava-
gant rumours had forced upon his mind,
in common with that of the public, with
reference to this all-important subject, still
he must declare, that he had heard %iith
very great satisfaction the important com-
munication which had been made from the
Throne. Some of the passages in.that
Speech were well calculated to give the
utmost pleasure to every true, friend of
Ireland,-to every man who respected the


6,7 Add~ess on the,


[ COMMONS. I






09 44 rese ~as the [FE
conscientious feelings of his fellowesub-
jectsi*,-to even man. who conceived that
hisneighbour had a right, as well as him-
self, to the enjoyment of political privi-
leges. 'There were, however, other pas-
sages.;in the Speeeh less wise, less liberal,
less conciliatory, than those to which he
had alluded---passages which had more of
the 'old spirit of heartless legislation to-
wards Ireland than was perhaps necessary.
But, nevertheless, though he was some-
what disappointed by those passages, still
he would say that he felt more pleasure on
this occasion, than he had ever before ex-
perienced, because he now saw a reason-
able prospect, that the peace and prosper-
ity of Ireland would be accomplished,
and that the security of the British empire,
and the interests of the British constitu-
tion, would be strengthened and preserved,
by a measure which was to place this ques-
tion on a safe and permanent foundation.
He thought, with many, that this was a
great day for Ireland, and, in his opinion,
the royal communication should be re-
ceived with general delight. It ought to
be, he conceived, a subject of joy and
congratulation to England -an event
which should excite exultation amongst
Christians. It could not but give pleasure
to British subjects who were anxious to
promote union and peace at home, and to
see the British name and nation respected
abroad. The act now contemplated would,
he thought, reflect infinite credit on his
Majesty's ministers. Such an act pointed
out the true value of place, and would con-
fer the most lasting fame on the statesmen
by whom it wasplanned and effected. He
would sooner be the prime minister, with
this charter of liberality in.his hand, stand-
ing forward as the saviour of Ireland, than
the Great Captain, whose fame resounded
through. all the world, covered with the
glories achieved in the peninsula, and dis-
tinguished by the ensanguined laurels of
Waterloo. It was a singular piece of good
fortune for that great man to have lived in
such times, and under such circumstances,
as rendered it likely that he would be able
to bring this, important question to a set-
tement. It would be the consummation
of that glorious wtrk which Fox, and Pitt,
and Barke, and Windham, and Sheridan,
spent their livts in endeavouring to effect,
and would willingly have died to accom-
plish. Their generous minds had sowed
the precious seeds, and their noble spirits
would not envy the good fortune of the


B. 5.] Kift9g' Speech. 76
man, who, 'though he had not sown, was
destined to reap the harvest. He 4ow
came to that part of the Speech in which
allusion was made to the Catholic Asso-
ciation. He thought that a measure! of
graoe,-a measure of pure liberality to the
Roman Catholics,-would have done iall
that was necessary with respect to that
Association; for, in the language of one
of the most eloquent persons amongst
them, they were told, that the bond of
the society was the bond of oppression-
that the magic which held them together
was the penal code." But parliament was
now going to break up that oppression,
and to remove those grievances which
kept the Association together; and he
would never present himself to that House
again, if, when he said that he believed
those measures would put an end to the
Association, he did not feel convinced that
such would be the case. He was sure that
confidence, liberality, and concession, on
the part of parliament, would be met, on
the part of his countrymen, with a total
forgetfulness of the past, a grateful recollec-
tion of the present, and a generous devotion
from this time forward to the interests of
the British empire. He hoped that his
Majesty's ministers would not be deterred
by such taunts as had been that evening
thrown out, from persevering in the ho-
nourable, wise, and beneficent policy upon
which they had entered, and that, above
all things, they would act upon a generous
and comprehensive principle; for, if part
only of their rights were to be conferred
upon the Roman Catholics, and they weie
to receive only an imperfect enjoyment of
their privileges, all the distractions, all the
anxieties, all the inconveniences and dan-
ger attending the present system, would
continue, and would probably be aggra-
vated by the disappointment which must
follow, if the hopes now excited should
not be fully realized. He, therefore, con-
jured ministers to pay no regard to the
insinuations which had been thrown out
by the enemies of emancipation, who re-
presented the proposed measures as the
consequence of intimidation. If the king's
ministers had been defeated it was by timely,
by circumstances, by the progress of know-
ledge, and the extension, of liberal and
enlightened principles, that they had been
defeated. They had been defeated, in
fine, by their country; and happy ought'
they to count themselves in being placed
in circumstances in which they suSfred a
D2







defeat-so glorious, and of which the con- be premature to anticipate the particular
sequtnces would prove so beneficial, nature of the measure, with respect to the
Mr. Moore said, that if he understood R4man Catholics, which was in contem-
the observations of the noble lord who plation. When it was brought liefore
moved, and the noble lord who seconded them regularly, he would then state'his
the Address,-if he were to take those ob- sentiments. He would, how ever, say. that
sera.itions as being expressive of the in- his opinions on the subject of the Catholic
tenitions of his Majesty's government, then claims remained unshaken. There was no
it would appear, that extensive conces- man who more highly valued the services
sions were to be made to the Roman Ca- of the duke of Wellington than he did-
tholids: Now, he,'for one, would say, that there was no individual who participated
although the noble lord opposite (Milton), more cordially in the public gratitude due
and the two hon. gentlemen, who had re- to that great man than himself-there
cently spoken, might indulge themselves were few persons who entertained a higher
in a strain of congratulation on the sub- idea of the talents and experience of his
je t of this sudden change of opinion, yet right hon. friend, the Secretary for the
" the announcement of that night to the Home Department, than he entertained;
,Protestants of Ireland would be a source but he could not coincide with their views
of surprise and sorrow. How it would be on this occasion. He had not hastily
received by the people of England, let the adopted his opinion: it was the result
:Protestants of England themselves declare; of long and serious reflection. A sacred
and he trusted, notwithstanding the taunts trust had been reposed in him by his
thrown out by the right hon. member for constituents, and he should be guilty of a
Kerry, with respect to the expression of dereliction of duty, if any sense of public
opinion in the British empire on this sub- services, if any respect for political talents
ject,-he trusted, that he should never and'experience, should induce him to sur-
live to see the day when public opinion, render that opinion. He had felt himself
generally, calmly, but fearlessly expressed, called on, as it was not likely that there
would cease to have its due weight with would be any division, to speak his semti-
that Houise. The right hon. member for ments, lest he might be supposed, by his
Kerry had directed the attention of the silence, to acquiesce in that part otf the
House to what he had been pleased to call Address which had reference to the Catho-
mob-ineetings. Now, if he knew any lie question. He was fully sensible pf the
thing of public meetings in England, they truth and justice of the feeling which in-
deserved any other character than that duced his Majesty to declare in his Speech,
which the right hon. member had ascribed that it was his duty, as well as his deter-
to them. He could, however, speak from mination, to preserve inviolate the estab-
his own experience of the character of lishments in Church and State, and to
the public meetings in Ireland ; and he maintain the Protestant reformed religion
spoke in the presence of a number of his as by law established. He, however,
countrymen who could set him right if he could not help regretting that those with
were not correct, when he said, that the whom he had acted, and for whom h'eshould
meetings held in Ireland for the last four ever entertain the highest respect, should
months, were atterided by a greater pro- on this one subject, have placed themselves
portion of the rank, wealth, intelligence, in'such a position as to oblige himto re-
and information, of the Protestants of that peat the observation which he had formerly
country, than was ever before exhibited on made in that House; namely, that the
any public occasion. He thought himself only security for preserving inviolate the
called on to state this, and to defend those Protestant establishment in this country,
meetings when the right hon. member was that security which was provided by
Sthdught proper to denominate them mob the great constitutional settlement of 1688.
meetings." At many of those meetings Mr. M. Fitzgerald di:cljinl.md all inten-
speeches were delivered in a strain of elo- tion of casting a retr-et.;in upon the
quence, with a glow of animation, a force Protestant meetings which had taken
of nea'sonin'. and an extent of intelligence, place in Ireland during the last six months.
that would do, credit to any asseinbly. It Mr. Secretary Peel said, that his hon.
was rnothisiutenti6n at prt i n.to examine friend who had spoken last, his noble
in Uti ii the various topics contained in friend the member for the county of Buck-
ithe Spec fodli ; the Throne. It would ingham, his;'hon. friend the member for


SKing's Spaeech. 72


11;r Addrescr oli the


[ COMMOiNS, I






Address n thie


Ripon, and his hon. friend opposite, the
member for Dorset, would at least believe,
that nearly the most' painful circumstance
that could be imposed on a public man, in
the performance of a.public duty, must be
when, after long acting with a number of
individuals,-after proceeding in concur-
rence with them to the utmost of his power
in a, particular course of policy, he finds
himself called upon, by peculiar circum-
stances, to separate from them. To sepa-
rate, he repeated, from men for whose
integrity,,ability, and conscientious feel-
ings, ,he entertained, and always should
entertain, the profoundest respect, must
certainly be counted amongst the severest
sacrifices of a public man. But he trusted
that his hon. friends would admit this;
namely, that his Majesty's ministers stood
in a situation different from that in which
they were placed; that, in that'situation,
they had access to, information which his
hon. friends had not; and above all, that
they stood in a peculiar relation to his
Majesty, by which they had contracted an
obligation, as responsible servants of the
Crown, from which they could not relieve
themselves by any reference to past decla-
rations or past circumstances, from the
duty of giving the best advice which they
could foim, as to any measure, under the
then existing situation of affairs. That
was their duty;- and whatever might have
been the understanding on which govern-
ments had been formed, with respect to
the Catholic question, and whatever might
have been the reservations which indi-
viduals had made when entering into the
service of the Crown, such understandings
and suchreservations did not absolve them
from the paramount duty of offering the
best advice to his Majesty, upon any im-
portant conjuncture, and of being respon-
sible for the consequences of that advice.
He did not mean to answer the expressions
of reproach which had fallen from his hon.
friends. He admired them for retaining
their opinions; and he only asked them,
whether they would wish his Majesty's
ministers to retain those opinions, when
they appeared to be incompatible with the
great interests which they were called on
to guard ? If his Majesty's ministers
believed that adherence to resistance
against the Roman Catholic c laims ought
to cease-if they thought that, upon the
i hole, it would be more for the interests
of the country at large, and more for the
Protestant interest, to take into considera-


tion the entire condition of Ireland, it was
their duty, with reference to those interests
which they had a common benefit in pre-
serving, to give that advice. And he
would unhesitatingly declare, that''there
was, under present circumstances, much
less of evil, much less of danger, in con-'
sidering the whole condition of Ilei dni by
a united government, than there was in
any other course which could be pointed
out. He pretended to no new lights on
the subject of the Catholic claims. He
retained the same opinion which, he ever
entertained in reference to that question.
He saw as clearly as ever the dangers
which he had heretofore felt, as connected
with that subject; but he had no hc:itation
in saying, that the pressure of present evils
was so great and overwhelming,'that he
was willing to encounter the risk of those
contingent dangers, rather than, in the
existing situation of the country, to endure
not only the continuance, but the aggra-
vation of the present system.
The opinions which he had heretofore
expressed on the Catholic question he still
retained-but he must say, that, looking'
to the position of the government of the
country,-looking to the position of the
legislature,-looking to the disunion which
had prevailed on this subject, in his Ma-
jesty's councils,-looking to the disunion
which for several years had marked the
proceedings of the two branches of the.
legislature,-and looking to the effect
which all these causes had produced on
the state of Ireland ;-considering all
these things, he must say, that there
appeared to him to be sufficient reasons
to induce him to accept of almost any
alternative, rather than endure their con-
tinuance. For the last five and' twenty
years-ever since the year 1804-there
had been a division in the king's councils
upon the subject of the Roman Catholic
question. The government of the country
had, at intervals, before that time, been
composed of persons who made a common
cause in their resistance to those claims;
but for the last twenty-five years, men
holding different opinions upon that
question had taken a part in his Majesty's
councils. When Mr. Pitt returned to
office in 1804, it was notorious that he
entertained a strong desire to, settle the
question, by some satisfactory arrange-
ment. He resisted, it was true, the pro-
position for taking the question into con-
sideration; but hie had dois so on ground*


[ EB. S.]


Kig9's Speec.'






75 Address og the


of temporary convenience, and not from
pny reasons connected with the general
principle. In 1806, when Mr. Fox's
government was broken up, and that of
lord Grenville and Mr. Fox was forced,
the principle of neutrality upon the Cagho-
lic question was one of the covenants
upon which that administration was
founded; and it was matter of notoriety,
that the same principle had been acted
upon in the constitution of every adminis-
tration which had been formed in the
country from that time down to the present
hour. It was perhaps as unavoidable as
it was notorious, that every administration
in this country for the last twenty-five
years, had admitted persons who differed
in opinion upon the Catholic question. If
there was any error in being a party to
such a system, he was ready to take to
himself his share of blame; but it was an
error in which many great men had par-
ticipated. No man could lament this
more than he did; but he believed that
the difference which existed amongst
public men upon the subject of the Ca-
tholic question was so great, that it was
found impossible to make up an adminis-
tration, which could have any reasonable
hlpe of carrying on the' business of the
government, if it had been founded upon
any other principle than that of admitting,
in the members of the cabinet, a differ-
ence of opinion upon that question. Men
were obliged to yield to the necessity of
the times; and to adopt a course which,
although they believed it to be prejudicial
to the interests of the state, they knew to
be unavoidable. And it was certainly
natural, when the country was placed in
circumstances of difficulty and peril, that
men who had atheart the general prosperity
of their common country, should merge
for a time their differences upon the suib-
ject of the Catholic question, in the desire
to promote the other pressing interests of
the country.
He said, however, that the reasons
which operated to such an extent then
could not hold good now, This question
was second to no other which could be
brought under the attention of the legis-
lature. There was no immediate and
pressing danger now, which prevented us
from giving its difficulties our full atten-
tion. This, therefore, was his first position
-that, however expedient, or however
allowable, it might have been for the
government to profess neutrality upon the


Catholic claims in other 'times, such a
state of things was utterly out of the ques-
tion now. At a time when there was
scarcely an individual ii the empire who
did not express an opinion iduon the sub-
ject, and who was not even raking it the
topic of his every day's discourse, it was
impossible for the goverhimett to remain
without coming to some decision,-with-
out sending forth some explicit opinion,
both as to this question and to those that
were connected with it. These considera-
tions had compelled him to come to the
conclusion that, for the safety of the Pro-
testant religion and Protestant institutions
of the country, it was absolutely necessary
for the administration to abandon the prin-
ciple of neutrality on this all-absorbing
question. Besides the embarrassments
attendant upon a disunion in the cabinet
on the Catholic question, there was the
additional embarrassment in the disunion
which, as a necessary consequence of it,
prevailed in the Irish administration In-
deed, the disunion of the cabinet was
calculated to create, necessarily 'and' n-
evitably, a corresponding spirit Of disution
in the constitution of the Irish government.
As disagreement on the Catholic qtiestion
was the principle on which the adnihiis-
tration in England was formed, it was
impossible to prevent the same principle
from entering into the constitution of the
Irish administration. Accordingly, there
had been at one time a lord lieutenant in
Ireland entertaining opinions unfadburtble
to the measure of Roman Catholic relief ,
and a Secretary entertaining opinions
favourable to it. Again, we had had the
lord lieutenant favourable to the claims of
the Catholics, and the Secretary of' oppo-
site sentiments. This was the fiatural
result of a divided cabinet; and although,
there had been occasions, for instance,
recently, of the lord lieutenant and the
Secretary cherishing the same sentiments
on the question, yet they were under the
guidance and direction of a disunited
cabinet. Thus, whether the administra-
tion of Ireland was united in favditi of
concession, or disunited against it, their
conduct was always controlled by the prin-
ciple on which the adminisiLation in
England was formed ; namely, one of dis-
agreement upon the subject of concession.
Seeing, then, the embarrassments which
this principle had created hitherto in the
construction of the cabinet-seeing, too,
the embarrassierit which its preValence


King'ms4 tbh.


[ COMMONS, I






. Address pa the


extended to the administration of affairs in
Jrqpntrnd seeing further, that these
embarrassments not Qply continued, b.ut
greatly increased, he had co me to the con-
clusion, that things could not and ought
not to remain as they were [hear!]-not
only for the sake of the question itself, but
in reference to the public interests, and to
the interests of the Protestant establish-
ments, which, it was their most anxious
wishand boiunden duty to protect, it was
desirable that things should not remain in
their present condition [hear, hear !].
Now, he asked 'his honourable friends,
-who, he believed, would hardly contest
this proposition, that it was scarcely for
the benefit of the Protestant establishment
that this question should remain as it was
-hbe asked them to consider how it was
to be met? Was it possible to set it at
rest by forming an administration of per-
sons prepared to resist concession to the
Catholics, under any circumstances ? Was
it possible to do this in the present state
.of public feeling and opinion ? If it was
admitted then, that matters could not
remain as they were, and that the principle
of disunion in his Majesty's councils ought
to be continued, let the legislature fairly
and dispassionately consider what can be
done. And, first, let them inquire,
whether a minister of the Crown, anxious
to support the established religion, and to
conduct the affairs of the country with
benefit and success, could honestly advise
his IMajesty to attempt the formation of an
administration on the principle of perma-
nent resistance to further concessions to
the Roman Catholics? He repeated, "on
the principle of permanent resistance,"
because be could see no advantage that
an. administration could derive from tem-
porary resistance to the Roman Catholics;
for if -temporary resistance, founded
merely on passing circumstances, was
resorted to, the administration which
adopted such a course at once admitted
and conceded the abstract principle. Il
they declared that there were some reasons
which, at a particular moment, pressed on
them, as forming a sufficient cause for a
refusal of concession, they conceded this
point-that when those reasons were
removed, the boon ought to be granted
For his own part, he had ever seen any
advantage that could result from opposing
the Roman Catholic claims on temporary
ground. The inevitable resultofplacing
resistance on such grounds as the expiei.


sion of strong opinions, or the frequency
of public meetings, the object"f which
.sight be to prevent the government from
pursuing its own line of policy, would be
to prevent concessions, but to prevyeit them
on unfair grounds. He did not think it
fair that permanent resistance -hould arise
out of temporary grounds of exptoiency.
He did not, therefore, think it would Ie
good for the country, that a government
should be formed upon the principle of
permanent, unqualified, and uincortpro-
mising resistance to the Catholic claims.
He, for one, could not advise his Majesty
to attempt the formation of such a goveriA
ment, because he thought not only that it
would fail, but that it would compel the
settlement of the Catholic question at
last; while, in the interim, those enmbitter-
ing animosities would have so far increased,
as to make the settlement of the question
much more difficult than it would have
been before the constitution of such a
government.
Considering that, in the last sersioh of
parliament, a majority in that House of
272 against 266, had decided in favour of
further concessions to the Roman Catho-
lics, to oppose such concessions would be
to stand against an actual majority of the
House; and any administration formed
upon the principle of eternal and uricom-
.promising resistance to the C.atholic claims
must ever have found itself in positive mi-
norities. Was there the least chance that
such a government could carry through
parliament those measures which a rigid
I adherence to the principle on which it had
been founded would render necessary ?
These were matters which he thought his
hon. friends, in treating on the question,
could not refuse to take into their con-
sideration; but he was quite sure they
must see how absolutely inimpo-ible it was
that 'they should be overlooked by any
member of his Majesty's government. The
hon. baronet, the memberfor Ripon, should
Srecollect, that to adopt authoritative and
i coercive measures would be to give a
triumph to those very persons of whom he
Shad spoken in terms of so much reproach.
To make again the attempt which was
Made in 1825, would be to have the mea-
Ssure followed up by a declaration of that
r House, that the Cathulii, qutistun ought
Sto be conceded. On the I'ullest considera-
tion, therefore, of all those ciriunistancEr
Which ought not t6 be excluded from' thcir
Sconsiderat.iol, if it iw interided to coined


[ Fa., 1-


King's Speech..






S [COMMOINS, I


t~sos^wi'nestnand.:correet opinion on th
sdbiec; hefwas entirely satisfied, that th
attetmpatuitorn ana administration against
theiJipnciple which had been acted upbi
forlihe, last twenty-five years-an admi
niTtratiori composed exclusively of person!
whoT would offer an uncompromising, un.
qpalitied, and permanent opposition to thq
G4tholio claims-would fail, and in it!
faihre;, produce consequences extremely;
prejudicial top the best interests of th(
country.. -An attempt from which he ex-
pected such results as these, he certainly
wsild; never advise, because he though
thattit ought'not to be made.
'iiolthen; it were conceded to him, that
mattere;could not remain as they were
and-that-an administration could not be
formed on 'the principle of permanent
risiStance to concession, it must be ad-
mitted that there was only one alternative
--namely, a consideration of, this most
important question, with a view to effect
such settlement of it as should be satis-
faetbry ,to all parties. He would again
askt hislonburable-friends if they did not
seeviri thei.divisions which the discussion
of'fhis question had produced between the
two Housesof the legislature, an additional
reason for endeavouring to effect, as soon
as-phssible, a final and satisfactory settle-
ment 'of the question? Since the year
1807 there had been five general election
in, thip country; namely, one in 1807,
another in 1812, another in 1818, another
irisiB20, and another in 1826. There
had, therefore, been five different Houses
inhfive'ddistinct parliaments, and four of
these had adopted resolutions in favour of
concessions to the Roman Catholics. The
HouI e of Commons elected in 1807 voted
in:.1812 in favour of considering the ques-
tionr.of 6ncessions, by a majority of 235
toil06; The House of Commons elected
in.18-12i)voted alsO in favouof the consi-
deration, by a majority of 264 to 224. The
Houseof Commons elected in 1818, which
was the only exception in these fiveipar-
liameats, resisted the consideration of the
question, but oniy- by a majority of two ;
the ninmbers -being 243 to' 245. The
House of Commons elected in 1820,passed,
in 1821, a bill for the relief of the Roman
Catholics by a majority of 19. Now, to
consider the measures of relief which.this
brganilhafthe legislature had pursued.' In
182. a bill for tiherelief cof th' Roman
Catholios passed that House by a majority
pf-i9!cqIO;ii8rjWlI bill fol permitting


e Roman Catholic peers to st and&vstecif
e the House of Lrds passed' by a majority
t of 21. In 1825, the House 'passed a bil
i for the relief of the. atholics bymajority
- of 20. -In 1826, the House passed bill
s for the relief of the Catholics by a majority
- of 21. In 1827, the consideration of the
e question was rejected by a majority of 276
s to 272; but in the last year it was carried
by a majority of 272 to 266. In four,
Therefore, out of five parliaments, the
-House of Commons had come to resoluh
r tions in favour of the concession. It was
Snot, however, so with the other House of
parliament. And he must say he:thought
it became them to weigh maturely "this
fact, and see whether, in this difference
Between the two Houses of legislature,
There was not to be'found another reason
for taking the question into consideration,
with a view to the settlement of it. It
could not be denied that the difference
between the Houses of Lords and Commons
on this point was an evil. Certain it was,
that it acted not a little prejudicially on
the government. The opinion of that
House, which had been so repeatedly ex-
pressed in favour of concessions to the
Roman Catholics,animated and encouraged
faction in Ireland, though it was by no
means intended to produce that effect. A
proper line was not drawn between the
proceedings of that House and the views
which were entertained out of doors; and
he had no hesitation in declaring it to be'
his firm conviction, that the expression of
this opinion, on the part of the House,
Considerably raised the power of the Ca-
tholics, while it depressed that of the Pro-
testants in Ireland. For five and twenty
years the two branches of the legislature'
had been divided on this point; and he
saw no means of removing the evil, except
by a full and deliberate consideration of
the whole question. No doubt any man
who reasoned upon general grounds, and
not from existing circumstances, would be
justified in adhering, to his resolution on
this question; but, when it was found that
such a resolution acted prejudicialy to the
government1 it was surely but fair that ihat
circumstance' should be taken into the
account, and admitted as a reason for the
settlement of differences, which, no matter
on which side the right- might, be$!or sup-
posed to ,be, were clearly proved to be.
injurious. -In argument and speculation .
there might be error ; but in matteirsof
-faththerocould be none, : ,


79 Addresioii~fha'


~;King;ts-~Fli~PR,






S1 ~ rkeson Xe


These, thn, reported, were the reasons
arising out of- continued division in the
councils of .his MIajesty, and between the
twoi)Houses of legislature, which- had
iiiduced',him to come to the conclusion,
that there was no alternative left them but
a full consideration of the question, with a
view to the settlement of it. Retaining his
former views, and sensibly alive to all the
dangers upon which he had before insisted,
he still found that he could embrace this
alternative and come to a consideration of
the question, because he could not shut
his eyes to other dangers, and to other
inconveniences, which had resulted from
the state in which the question had till
now:remained. His hon. friend had asked
him what particular measure it was in-
tended to propose. If his hon. friend
would look attentively, he would find
that there was nothing in the Address,
which pledged his hon. friend, or any
other member, to support the measure,
whatever it might be, which would be pro-
posed; and if the question, therefore, re-
mained unanswered, his hon. friend could
not justly take any exception to the Ad-
dress, upon the ground that he was ig-
norant of the nature of the measure to be
submitted to the House on this subject.
But he would satisfy his hon. friend, so
far as he was able, with respect to the in-
tentions of his Majesty's ministers. First,
it was their intention, in conformity with,
the recommendation in his Majesty's
Speech, to arm the executive government
in Ireland with sufficient power to suppress
an Association, which had been produc-
tive of evils so notorious, that he was
spared the painful task of dwelling upon
them. Until this was done, and the as-
cendancy of the laws in Ireland vindicated,
he did not think that they ought to be
called upon to take into consideration the
question of concessions. It, was not in-
tended, therefore, on the part of the go-
vernment, to propose any measure in ac-
cordance with the concluding portion of
his.:Majesty's Speech, until this essential
object should have been accomplished.
His ~ihomn friend had asked him, if they
had any specify measurein view, or if they
intended to throw the question loose upon
the House, and, having no plan of their
own, seek for one among the speculative
notions and the theoretical views of others.
He- had. no hesitation in, telling his hon,
friend thatt the latter course, was by no,
means contemplated, by ,hia Pajest' s


ministersv lAt the isanrdi~imnci.i',hkwver
his Majestys ministers looked .upon the
question as one. which. ;had ;o:been!,aspore-
.peatedly and so fully coosides ie, thlt-Lit
was not necessary now.to enter again into
a minute examination of :it. Formerly
such a course might have been necessary;
but it would be idle. now to coiider
the question otherwise than as one that
had been fully and substantially.-con-
sidered. It was their intention, thereforei
to submit to the House a specific measure;
brought forward on the responsibility of
the cabinet, at a period which they be-
lieved to be the most favourable,..and as
early as possible after the subject to which
he had first alluded had been disposed of.
His hon. friend, too, had asked, -what
was the general character of the contem,
plated measure, and had complained that
his Majesty's Speech did not enter more
into the details of it. With respect to his,
Majesty's Speech, his hon. friend; would,
he was sure, perceive, on consideration,
that his complaint was not well-founded.:
It could scarcely be expected that the
details of such a measure would be deve-
loped in a Speech from the Throne. IHe
had, without hesitation, gone as far as he
could in replying to the questions of his
hon. friend, but he must positively refuse
to accept his invitation to enter now into
the consideration- of the details of the
measure to be proposed. Not only was
this not the proper opportunity, because
those details could not now be discussed
fully, but even if such a discussion could
take place, it would answer no good end.
The introduction of the measure would.-
furnish the only proper occasion for the
discussion which his hon. friend desired,
and which would then be as full as his
hon. friend could possibly wish. He.had,
however, no hesitation in saying, that it
was the intention of his Majesty's ministers
to propose a permanent settlement of the
question, on what they believed would be
thought to be a satisfactory basis. It
was their intention to effect the removal
of civil and political disabilities, subject,
however, to those exceptions and regula-
tions which to them appeared necessary-
those exceptions and regulations standing
on their own specific grounds. Other
measures wereiin contemplation'ilbut'into
them he would not now enteri, -ontentingl!
himself with stating that the principle
which his Majesti's ministers.had in viev.'
was to attempt a satistictory andppermia-


[ FE. 50J


MV~speeM., 82







anett settlement of the, question, and the course of his speech, his hon..friend had
removal of civil disabilities arising from alludedto an event which had taken place
religious distinctions, in the county of Clare, and had admitted,
This was the general basis of the mea- that the same event, would h.ae occurred
Sure; but, as he before observed, they in twenty other counties, if tlhef ad
would reserve to themselves the power of been as many opportunities.; Surely, his
bringing forward such regulations as should hon. friend must admit, that this was a
appear: to them to be necessary. The very important matter, as connected with
mrdestire, far froi proceeding from hasty this subject. His hon. friend had taunted
conclusions or lately formed opinions, his noble friend at the head-of his Ma-
wortdd bdthe result of the mature delibera- jesty's government, and indeed all, his
'tton bf his Majesty's government. It was Majesty's ministers, -with having allowed
.ntito be regarded, for it was not intended, their fears to be excited, and with being
.inthe light of a compact or compromise intimidated into concessions. In his opi-
with any set of men; neither did it result, union, no motive could be more justly
torwasitonnected with, negotiationswith branded as ignominious, than that which
:any foreign power but it was a measure was usually termed cowardice. But there
solely of domestic and internal legislation, was a temper of mind much mois danger-
which should, without interfering with the ous than this, though it might not be so
rrihts and dignity of the Crown, secure base-he meant the fear of being thought
,peace to: the country, and have no re- to be afraid. Base as a coward was, the
k erece.whatever to any parties or factions, man who abandoned himself to the fear
rTb introduce such a measure in the light of being thought a coward, displayed little
:orf a'oaompromise or compact would be less fortitude. His Majesty's ministers
most'ihjudicious, but to divest it altoge- were not, and had not been, afraid of the
their of the character of a compact would Catholic Association. That intimidation
be an immense advantage; for the parlia- had been resorted to, he readily admitted.
.ment wbuld then be able to legislate for But, how had it been met? It was put
Ireland, without reference to parties, as it down by the Protestant spirit of the coun-
Agislated for Scotland, or for any other try: and, if it had been continued, his
part of-the empire. This settlement ef- Majesty's ministers were prepared to sup-
fotted, and the civil disabilities removed, press by the physical force of the country,
1they must deal with the Catholics as with those offences against the laws which
therestofhis Majesty'ssubjects. Hewished the moral strength of the people should
he could say that hethoughtthissettlement prove unable to subdue. At the same
would be productive.of those advantages time, he did not entertain the slightest
which many hon. gentlemen anticipated doubt that, in the absence of physical
would result from it. He confessed that force, and supported by his Majesty's
his estimate of those advantages fell in- loyal subjects alone, the king's ministers
finitely short of theirs, and he had more would have been able to destroy all at-
than once stated the grounds of that opi- tempts at carrying measures by intimida-
nion; One advantage, however, it cer- tion, and that the wicked abettors of such
tainly would produce-the, public mind attempts would have been involved in the
would be quieted by it; and if then there ruin of their cause. In the summer the
should be any att.:mrpt--civil disabilities attempt was made and it failed. These,
having been removed-to trench on the then, were not matters to strike his Ma-
prerogatives of the Crown, or to innovate jesty's ministers with fear, though others
upon legislative enactments, he was sure might. Fear, however, was by no means
that such attempt would be at once inconsistent with the character con-
effectually rebuked and punished. Reli- stantis viri:" there were many subjects
gious distinctions, too, having been done which it might be impossible for him to
away with, they should come to the other contemplate without dread; there were
subjects connected with the affairs of Ire- many views from which he might be jus-
iabd in better temper. tified in shrinking. He would tell his
SHis hoa. friend, the member for Ripon, hon. friend, that the disorganization and
!Ihba said, that within the last six months dis.aflction which existed in Ireland could
nothing had transpired which could justify not be looked upon without fear, and that
,* an alteration in views previously enter- to affect not to fear it would be to:aflfeet
ahined upont this question; and yet, in the insensibility to the welfare f the-countr


0 Adt~tvsa on Ae


[ COMMBONS, ]







He was nIt a man tol yield to intimidation, ii this situation, he felt it hitiferdteittyito
or to be deterred by threats of commotions; give the best advice to his Majesty: yet, in
but'ht.coald not understand the constitu- doing so, he did not forget tie pe bulir
'tibp' of that ittiti-s mind who, looking situation in which he stood: he didinot
uIpbn Ireland in its present state, could be forget, that he had for many years: past,
free 1frtt apprehestions of (consequences offered, he hoped not a violent fldr in-
whrich eight arise from allowing such a temperate, though certainly a steadyateAl
condition of affairs to coietine. unqualified opposition to the claims of the
But, the pI f t which weighed most with Roman Catholics.' He had, hoa ver,
him in, respect to Ireland was this :-he never opposed those claims on temporary
conscientiously believed, that while this grounds, but had always resisted aridi Ma-
diiuhion existed between the legislative cession on abstract principles;. Hea'did
bodies and the government, a proper ad- not, by what he now said, wish to find any
ministration of the law by juries in Ireland refuge for the course he n as now pursuiLg,
wag impossible. For these reasons, there- from those sentiments nhich had fallen
forej considering the absolute necessity of from him on former occasionas In rthe
providing a remedy for this disunion be- Opposition he had made to this measure
tweeti the two branches of the legislature he had never professed to look to sec urittes.
in its bearing on the state of Ireland, and His opposition had been cbmptlet A hd
the probable aggravation of the evils so entire. That opposition, howeverPhad
much to be lamented in that country, he always been confined to that House. He
had come to the conviction, that without had never exercised it elsewhere add
reference to parties, it was his duty to though it had been charged against hilt
advise his Majesty, that the barriers to the that he had, he had not thought such
question should be broken down-that the accusations worth notice; yet he must
whole question should be seriously eon- now declare, that they were Atttely lti-
sidered-and that ah attempt should be founded, and that his opposition to the
made to effect some settlement of it, Catholic claims had uniformly been- con
which should calm the mind of every fined to the debates of that House. It so
sincere Protestant, and satisfy every happened that when this question was
reasonable Catholic. under discussion by the government, which
Having said so much, he was unwilling was in the month of August, he happened
to trespass further on' the attention of the to be absent from town, and in corise-
House,; and yet he trusted he should be quence wrote to his noble friend upon
allowed to add a few words respecting his the subject. He was sensible of the
own peculiar situation. The conclusion embarrassing situation in which hewas
to which he, in conjunction with his placed, being responsible for the adminis-
friends had arrived, had not been influ- tration of affairs in Ireland, and yet ctn-
enced by the recent proceedings of the stantly in a minority in that House upon
Catholic Association, por by the difficulties a question which was thought to be of the
which rilight present themselves in once greatest importance to Ireland. Reflecting
more meeting the parliament. The opin- upon this, he notified to his noble friend
ions which he now expressed were formed that he concurred with him that there was
more than six months ago, almost imme- no other course now open but a full, con-
diately after the conclusion of the last sideration of the question, with a view to
session. At that time he communicated its final and satisfactory adjustment; The
with his noble friend at the head of his right bon. gentleman here read an extract
Majesty's government, and after an atten- from a letter of his to the duke of
tive consideration of the state of Ireland, Wellington. It stated, that on a ques-
they were of opinion; that it was not for tion of so much importance, he of course
the king's service, fcr the dignity of the should not be influenced by any false deli-
Crown, nor for the welfare of the country, cacy, or fear of incurring any imputations
that hoslility to concessions to the Roman ofinconsistency, from taking whatever part
Catholics sliould still be persisted in. He any new position of circumstances might
Sand his noble friend were of opinion, that I require; that he was ready, therefore, to
tbe time was come for a serious considera- I hazard any sacrifice on that poitl; thmthe
tion of the question, and that there would had a strong opinion that the proposed
be less evil in conceding the question, than concessions to the Catholics would not be
i pserigver ing oppositiei to' it; Placed satisfactory to the country ; bat atyhn feel


96 A ddrest 0 thei


t FrB.8b. 1






[ COMMONS. ]


ing'thit'all personal and private feelings
shpild be subordinate 'on such an occa-
sion, he was ready to do every thing in his
power to promote the object in view."
The right hon. gentleman continued.
He knew and felt that allpersonal feelings
sh6old be' subordinate to the public good
but he'could not help feeling at the same
tiri'e, thqt his own position was materially
different' from ihat of any other minister,
lfle would willingly have retired from
t i terference in the settlement of the
qIltion which now devolved upon him.
In the course of the discussions, however,
connected with the consideration of this
subject, his noble friend had said, that his
retirement would greatly embarrass him;
and this being the case, and it having been
proVed to his satisfaction that the diffi-
culties in the way of settling the question,
wotld be increased, if he pressed his re-
tirement-he had said to his noble friend,
that if such was likely to be the conse-
quence, no consideration should induce
him to urge his own personal wishes, but
that he was ready to uphold in his place a
measure which he was firmly convinced
had 'now become necessary. His noble
friend had 'done every thing in the power
of man to redier the measure about to be
proposed satisfactory to all parties; neither
hat he,' the consideration of this mea-
sure, been At all intimidated by the pro-
ceedings o' the Catholic Association.
1 is noble friend had thought it his duty to
advise his Majesty to rieort to the proposed
measure, and could not allow the fear of
any imptitations which he felt to be unjust
to intlnence his conduct. For himself,
the adoption of the measure had been
proposed after much p:inl'ul sacrifice.
He had done all i his, power to free him-
self'fiolii 'ariy'engagementi which might
prevent him from ex.ercisig the most un-
fettered judgment, witl, r.i-pct to this
vital question. Hiecdnsideied the path
'Wvic led t'o satisfactory settlement
ofift, 6be, under all the circumstances of
the, f oiitry, the course most free ifroth
peril; and lwhatecvr part he might li~iee
taken on former oceasibon,' with respect
to' this question, h6 considered it to bei
perT'ctly'reconcilEable with his dity, as a
iiemr b of that House, and as a senant of
th' CY on, to do all ht could to fultil tie
solemn i'ijiti'dions of his Majqes't to coi-,
sidcr th'i's"~btion: involving so deeply'
nor ibo th best feelings ofthe people, 'utl
the t -ifi o6f the UnitedK'ingdomn.


Mr. Arougliam' said:-Sir, it is not
my intention to dtain the House at
any length oi. the present occasion;
for I perfectly agree with the right hon.
Secretary that this is by no means the
proper time to enter into any consideration
of the nature of the measure which it niay
become parliament to adopt, with respect
to that most interesting subject .which at
present engrosses the attention of all;
When a speech from the throne contains
a recommendation to parliament to take
any particular matter into consideration, it
is not fitting that the details should be spe-
cified ; for that would have the air of dic-
tating to his Majesty's government the mea-
sure-which it is left to the wisdom of the
legislature to discuss. It follows that we
cannot have more than a general statement
conveyed to us, and accordingly the prac-
tice never is, to ask for the particulars in
the first instance. So far am I from feel-
ing the slightest disposition to do so, that
I cheerfully declare that I, for one, am
perfectly satisfied with the general de-
scription of the proposed measure compre-
hended in the Speech from the throne;
which general description I understand to
mean, that the arrangement to be made
shall be on a wide basis and of a perma-
nent character; not a narrow niggardly
measure-not a grant of a mere part or
parcel of that which is required, reserving
the remainder until some other season.
What I understand is, that we are to do all
that ought to be done, and that we are. to
do it at once; that the mind of the legisla-
ture is to be applied to the question; and
that, after the due deliberations which its.
importance demands, we shall make to the
Roman Catholics such concessions as r4ay
once, and for all, terminate the dilflrences
between us that we shall give them n.hat
we can afford to give, and what they
ought to be satisfied to receive. Sir, I
say what the Roman Catholics ought to
be satisfied to receive; for I entirely con-
cur with the right hon. gentleman in the
opinion, that this great measure, from
which I trust such important benefits will
result to Ireland and to the empire at
laige, 'vould lose a great part of its value,
if it *,:re to be the result of negotiation
or compat. 'Sir, I consider the Caiholic
qu. stioiias subsaiitiallycairied; 1 consider
that all the essenti.il parts of that question
are irrevocably granted : above a~nd bLtore
all, the admission of Roman Catholics into
both Houses of parliament, as well as their


Address on the-


King's Speech.







equal, eligibility with Protestants to the the Catholic question. It has, appeared
great ofiSes of state, with one or two ex- to them that the elements on whiclhlheir
ceptions, oln which it is quite unnecessary opinion must be founded. have matensally
at present to tuch, and the, peculiar na- altered; and well may tlhe think so. Sir,
ture of which is such that the Catholics the observations which fell from the riglit
themselves muts admit that it is but fair hon. gentleman on the, state- of parues. iq
and just not to say necessary, that they the country, with reference to this grTat
should be excluded from them. It has subject, seem to me to be unag eraih]w
been said by an hon. baronet, that some If it be necessary, as all must dmt that
of those by whom this proposition is about the government of this country should ,e
.tb.be propounded have changed all the a united government, and act pi caqrt
principles \hi h they formerly maintained, for the public benefit, it is cla, as e
without any adequate cause existing for right hon. gentleman so well stated, that
the alteration. Sir, if, even in the case of the two alternatives they must chose
of circumstances remaining the same, the one. They must either make the Canho-
result of a larger and longer experience lic question a cabinet nieasure, to carry
.should be to induce a man to change the it to its full extent and immediately; or
opinion which he formerly held, and con- they must make it a cabinet measure to
scientiously to support an opinion diame- deny it, and to deny it f6r ever. For it
trically opposite-even. in that case, I would be childish, indeed, to supppsehat
.should never impute to him any motives it would be practicable for any government
inconsistent with a manly and honest dis- in the present day to say, We will re-
charge of his duty. Sir, I prefer those sist concession to the Catholics, ihut we
-who are ready to profit by experience, will not resist it for ever; we will resist it
above those who live to grow more per- only for six months, or for some indefinite
.versely obstinate, year after year reap- time until circumstances hall change.
ing the sad fruits of long life, without the I repeat, Sir, that government must either
important,- the melancholy consolation, at once carry, or must for everresigs con-;
of being able to set off against increasing cession. If they resistit, perpet~iity -of
.age, augmented wisdom. But, Sir, I differ resistance must be the cardinal point of
from the hon. baronet to whom I have their policy. Now, tha is impossible. I
.already alluded, as well as from the noble address myself to men who have hot
.lord opposite, when they say, that no changed their opinions on the subject at
-change of circumstances has occurred to all. If there is any man who hearsI m',
Produce that change of opinion which they and who maintains the doctrine of ,nonr.
condemn. What! has no difference in concession, in spite of events, in spite of
the state of things taken place within the experience, in spite of all that has la ely
last three or four, to say nothing of the occurred in this country, in spite Of all
last five-and-twenty years ? Undoubtedly that has lately occurred in the sister king-
I, and those who agree with me on the dom-if there is any man on whom the
subject, have always maintained that no events of the general election in 18-26
such change was wanted. We did not have been lost--if there is any man 'on
require the results of any further expe- whom the election for the county oi' Clate
rience to convince us, that concession to in 1828 has been thrown away, andBlho
the Roman Catholics was as expedient as still holds, tiat great mischief must result
it was just. We, without the benefits of from carrying the Catholic Question, and
experience, contended in favour of the who still, maintains that they ought never
concession.; as, having derived that bene- to receive any further concession-I ask,
fit, we now continue to contend all the that man to point out, either in this or the,
more strenuously in favour of it. Bqt wei other Hguse of parliament, the materials
all know that different men, may see thel of which his Arnti-C.atlil;c ahbinet- c, ld0-
same subject in various lights. I am per-. be.composed [hear, hear !], S, I. on-
fectly aware-for I have heard .it in all tend Ih at ihre are no materials n exist-
quarters--that the circumstanceswlwhich ence for such. a cabinet. Suppose he,
have occurred within the last two or three rigt .hon .gentleman opposite, uplbotq,
years, and.still mqre emphatically w;ih;n nately for his; country, u.pfPaQi et eAy,
-the l3st halfyear have irejlly ch.nged the his own reputation, had coiinmued,to
opinion of maInypersous, both in parlia here ti his opinion, that the ucli'ps p f.,he,,
meint and. out of doors, with respect to Catholics ought reeer Lo ba9,iA| Aed'd "9"',


. Address on the


[FEB. 5.]





A COMWONS, ]


hei.alfnam msat have. formed of all the per.
sonnahese-T, speaks of course of the per,
siaawcapable of administering the affairs
of4id great nationr-he alone, with the ex-
ceptiotof one or two other individuals on
the :enoth as below, and with the excep-
tioniof one or two noble.persons, members
ofi aHouse to which it would be disorderly
further to. allude-he must alone have
formed the cabinet by which continued
resistance could have been made to the
settlement of the Catholic question. It
is tuite ~lear, therefore, that the thing, is
politically, I might almost say physically,
impossible. That being the case, the
change of circumstances which it indicates
will well justify individuals who formerly
voted against concession in now voting in
favour of. it. What is the change of cir,
cumstances thus indicated? It will, I
poesumeo Sir, be acknowledged by every
body, that it is expedient that the govern-
reat of a country should be carried on by
the regularly constituted authorities; that
it is expedient that.the government of Ire-
land should:be carried on by the lord lieu-
tenant, magistrates.and other functionaries,
aided by the regular body of the civil and
military power. Now, Sir, I ask, has the
power of the state in Ireland been, for
some time past, effectually in the hands of
the constituted authorities; or has it not
been substantially administered by the
Catholic Association? That is a state of
things the' continuance of which cannot
be otherwise than mischievous. The
friends of the Catholic Association-nay
the Catholic Association themselves-must
concur with their enemies in deprecating
the continuance of such a state of things,
as utterly inconsistent with the safety of
the government and the peace of the em-
pire. But, are there more ways than one
of .putting an end to this state of things ?
No man living will venture to say that it
is: ,possible to put down the Catholic
Association in any way but one; namely,
by carrying the Catholic question [hear,
hear I]-And this, Sir, leads me to advert
to thatpart of the King's Speech, which of
course I treat as the speech of the king's
ministers, on.which, and on which almost
alone, I feel any disposition to make the
slightest oomment. I confess, Sir, thatI
wish the. recommendation of concession
to te Catholics had:preceded, instead of
fol wingj. recommendation f, putting
downa the Catholic Association; and for
ihis simple reason--I am as clearly con-


viaced as I am of my own ~iistaeeetAat
if the measures had beetn taksjfia the
succession which I have deseribedi:the.
carrying of the first would have rendered
the second perfectly unnecessary. Conm
session to the Catholics wodldi 'have. ii-
stantly put an end to the Cathblio iAso-
ciation. The Association was originally
created by the existing grievances; by
their continuance it was kept alive; upon
their redress it must die a natural death.
This arrangement, however, not having
been made, we have now only to listen to
the propositions which it is the intention
of his Majesty's ministers to submit to par-
liament, All I trust is, that the proposi-
tions will be so framed as to abstain ~rom
invading any general constitutional prin-
ciples; and that parliament will not be
required to pronounce upon the -hateful
alternative of either rejecting a measure,
the tendency of which is to relieve the
Catholic body from their disabilities, or
to adopt it, at an expense of constitu-
tional principles too large to be con-
sented to even for such an object.
:What I mean, Sir, is distinctly this:-
Great as would be the value of restoring
religious peace and political tranquillity
to Ireland, if those objects are to be ob-
tained only as a consideration for parlia-
ment's arming his Majesty's government
with powers over all classes of his ,Ma.
jesty's subjects, Protestant as well as Ca-
tholic, dangerous to their civil liberties,
it will become us, at least, to pause before
we consent to any such proposition. Into
what, in my opinion, ought to be the de-
tails of the proposed measure, I shall, of
course, at present abstain from entering.
When we shall hear them, in detail we,
shall have an opportunity of exercising
our judgment respecting them. I trust
that, to use the words of the Speech,
the powers which it will be proposed to
parliament to intrust to his Majesty's
government will be only "such powers
as may enable his Majesty to maintain
his just authority." But, I would fain
hope that the news of this Speech from
the Throne, and of the declarations of
his Majesty's ministers in both Houses,
when it reaches Ireland, will have the
effect of obviating by anticipation the
necessity of any new powers whatever. Of
this I am sure, that if ever I have taken
leave to advise my Catholic felloww sub-
jects from my.place in parliament (the,
only place in which I ever have.advisd,


A d Adnas on, #A#l~


ring's Spfeedt.






Address eintthe


[ COMMONS,]


King's Spee*k


irthe(sawy .of this.most salutary measure;
andi e.uifider-ntiy hope, that; the end: of-
the sessioi will' not, arrive, before the
subj4t. has been finally and happily de-
cided,:,
idtFAe Earl o' Aberdeen said, he rose
merely -to assure the noble marquis and
theiirlordships, that he should be ready,
on he, proper occasion, to go with him into
lhe fullest -.\anibination of all steps taken
by; government with respect to the subjects
in -question, -particularly the affairs of
Portugal.;i and he should be ready and
willing to furnish such explanations as he
had no doubt would not only justify them
to the Housei.but call from the noble mar-
quis'. approbation. as cordial as that
whigh: he -had bestowed upon the other,
measures mentioned in the Address.
He-should be able to prove, that every step
taken by this country, with respect to
Portugal, had been dictated by prudence
and justice.
The Address was then agreed to, nem.
diss..

1'ilOUSE OF COMMONS.
Thursday, February 5.
MINUTES,3 The SPEAKER acquainted the House, that
Jie bad received from Lord Combermere a letter, dated
'Head yIJnsIT., imrnlh, '.'Olth Im. 1828, inclosing a letter
"from Major-general Sir A..Campbell, in return to the
h Lanki of Le 1 ou.e ur Commons, for his conduct during
the? larI- -..reranr..- against the kingdom of Ava.-The
'SeAaika dequainted the House, that he had issued war-
ra8ts for New Writs, for Cumberland, in the room of
,J. C. Curwen, esq. deceased; and for Dartmouth, in the
room of Sir J. H. Cooper, bart. deceased.-The SPEAKER
acpiaainted the House, that certain Freeholders of the
n.r'at of Clar.. ho hari p iii:.r n. ., on the 22nd of July
L;t, a i r i'',ir..-,n n. rtijlm .-.i D. O'Connell, esq.,
11had rljlctkled t.nl.r ;or.w tihc nr.eL--ar Recognizances.-
Sir 'L. O'BRYAr presented a Petitionl from the said
Freeholders, praying, for leave to present a new Petition
against the said Election and Return, and for leave to
enter iltd the prescribed Recognizances. The Petition
-was broughtup, and the further consideration-thereon was
adjourned to Monday.-Sir JAMxs GRAHAM, Mr. G. BUR-
IARBD, Mr. SPENCER PERCEVAL, and Mr. W. EWART
*wre; sworn and took their Seats.-Mr. PLANTA moved
NeW Writs for Plymouth, Bath, and Edinburghshire, in
ihe roi,., of ; r G. Cockburn, the Earl of Brecknock, and
Sir G. CLi'ri., Co(mmissioners of the Admiralty; for Whit-
chtrch, in the room of thehon. J. R. Townshend, Groom
of thS Bedchamber; for Carlisle City, in the room of
Sir James Graham, who had accepted the Chilten Hun-
deeds i and for East Grinstead, in the room of the'
'Hon.c ~ CO.. C Jenkinson, now Earl of Liverpool,

ADDRESS 'ON THIE KING's SPEECH.],
The Speaker acquainted the House, that the
House ad beenfin the House of Peers, to,
hear the Speeeh of the Lords Commission4
erjs of which; itoprevent mistakes, he had
obtained a copy. After he had read it to
the..House,1, ; .


Lord Clive rose,; he said, tnS rPwV -,
humble Address to hisi Majuety, in answer
to his most gracious Speech, which they
had just heard, read. In doiqg. ioin~ ,
hoped it would sot be considered .lise-
spectful, either to the Houseis0r to .-4haV
royal Speech, if he departed .somewbat
from the usual course followed by those;
who had preceded him in ,the situation
which he then stood in, by not following:
in order the different topics made mention'
of in the Speech, but by proceeding at
once to make a few observations on what
appeared to him the most important of
those topics; namely, that which intro-.
duced to the consideration of the House, a
subject that had for some time -agitated
the mind of every man, fromone extremity
of the kingdom to another-the present
state of Ireland. It would not be neces-
sary for him, in making these observations,
to enter at any length into a history of the
causes of the present condition of that
country; indeed, it would not be. possible
for him to do so within the period which.
he felt himself justified to detain the
House, and, he would repeat, it was.-sot
necessary to the object which he had in
view. The last six months afforded
sufficient data to justify his cordial con-
currence with the recommendations of his
Majesty's Speech; and to that time. he
would confine his observations. Since
parliament had been prorogued, itwas a
fact too well known, that Ireland had been
in a state of daily increasing excitement
and confusion, arising from one cause or
other, between the two great parties .that
distracted that unhappy country. That
excitement and confusion had now reached
to such a height, that it would be impos-
sible for any man to say when anexplosioni
would take place, that would defy no
ordinary power to suppress, if circum-
stances were allowed to remain in their
present condition. That hbeiri. the unde-
niable state of affairs in Ireland, it became
a necessary duty of the House and. the
government, to consider the best course to
ursue, with reference to the empire at
large. He apprehended there was but
one course to pursue: it was not proper,
nay, it was not. possible, that the-state 'of
Ireland should continue ,as it then was.
With ,that.view, he tlought the 'course.
recommended in his Majesty's Speech; and
which ministers had determined to adopt;
the-best to meet existing difficulties, He
4als thought that that coursewaathe most






9.3 ,Addregs on the


or ever will advise them), if they have
ever condeeended to listen to any sug*
gestioisr-!which I may have thrown out
for :their benefits I here declare to them,
that I never more earnestly, I never more
deliberately ii'never so anxiously, intreated
--implored-"conjured them, by their re-
gard for their own honour, by their regard
for their own interests, by their regard for
the interests of the empire at large, by
their regard for the peace of their own
country, and, above all, by their wishes
for the success of their own cause, at once
to be satisfied with the assurarfce in the
Speech from the Throne-at once to be
content with the commentaries of his Ma-
jesty's responsible advisers in both Houses
on that assurance-at once to be content
with the state of the question both in and
out of parliament-and instantly, freely, I
cannotsay unasked, for I have asked them,
but uncompelled,, to put an end to the cor-
porate existence of the Catholic Associa-
tion, and to fling themselveswithout reserve
on the justice of the country [hear, hear !].
If they comply with this advice, I will
answer it with my head if it were neces-
sary-but I will pledge whatever little
credit I may enjoy with them for having
long been the zealous though humble ad-,
vocate of their claims in this House, that
the question will be as certainly carried,
and carried to their hearts' content, as if
the bill had already received the royal as-
sent [hear, hear!]. Nothing could then
prevent its being carried; nothing can en-
danger its being carried, except its being
accompanied by provisions injurious to the
principles of civil liberty; provisions which
will be wholly unnecessary unless they
persist in meetings and other proceedings,
the whole necessity for which, and with
the necessity the justification, all candid
and impartial men must acknowledge is,
from this night at an end for ever [hear,
hear, hear !]. It is almost superfluous for
me to add that, laying aside all personal,
all party considerations, I most heartily
rejoice that this great work has been per-
formed, by whose hands soever. Could I
do otherwise? Good God, who would
stop at such a moment as this to ask who
does it, so it be only done? Who can
care what party man profits by it, pro-
vided only the tcounir derives the incstima-
ble benefit' of liberty iand peace ? When
so, mighty an advantage, civil peace and
religious,-tariaquillity-'4quiet at home aind
strength abroad, is about to be secured,


all petty distinctions sink, intoinsighifi.
canoe. We are united '-at leastzlborn
season; we are: all engagedt in. the esam~
cause. There will be ample time for dis-
cussions of a less important natAte,a .ftpr,
this, one of the most valuable, and exter-
si,ve, and lasting benefits, has been secured,
which parliament has for a' century cen-
ferred upon the country [hear, hear !].i:; '
Mr. Trant said, he had hitherto given
his humble but zealous support to ;the
government, in the confidence that the
leaders of it were firm supporters ofthe
Protestant constitution. He now fond
himself bitterly disappointed. lie had
listened to too many of the sound arguil
ments of the right hon. Secretary 'on
former occasions, to be deluded,, by-the
sophistry of the speech which he had made
in his new character of Catholic emanci-
pator. He would say that, in Ireland at
least, it never would be believed that 1he
had not been intimidated. He supposed.
that, if the details of the promised measure!
were not considered satisfactory, the doors
of the House would be beset by the Irish'
Catholics now in London. Indeed, Mr.
O'Connell was reported to have said,4that
if he was refused his seat in that House,
"What if the hundred thousand Irish
Catholics in London were to set fire to the
four corners of the city." The right hor.
Secretary had said, that he could not carry
on the business of the government with the
present House of Commons. Why, then,
did he not appeal to the people of Eng-
land, who were ready to return a House
which would enable him to conduct ad'airs
on true constitutional principles. He
lamented that the right hon. gentleman's
courage had failed him in the very moment
almost of victory. Having shown such
want of firmness, however painful the
avowal was, he must declare that he could
not again trust himi as a leader.
Mr. H. Maxwell said, he felt himself
bound to take that early opportunity of
stating that his opinions upon the Catholic
question were unaltered. He had always
been opposed to the concession of-any
further power to the Roman Catholics:
because he was persuaded, that no such
power could be granted to them with
safety to the Protestant constitution. :His
opposition to that measure had always
teen nlo-t decided, and every day's expe
rri ci confriimed him more and lore'in it.
As long as he had a seat i;A thatlHoaskti
and breath in- his body, he wotld"giJi'


[uBB. 6i. 1





95 AAddress on-the


[ COMMONS, ]


K! Xing's Speech.


every opposition in his power, under any rather than be guilty of any.derhliqtioif
Sciltenstances, td the claims of the Romani principle 'or inconsistency ip his public
Oathdsies. Hie -would merely add, with character, to withdraw from the., puinis-
respect to"this measure, recommended as tration of which Mr. Canning Was the
lit wasitom the Throne, that he was con- head; and that it was not from. persioal
"vincedrthat it would not only fail in pro- feelings, but because lie objected to any
aduci gl those beneficial results which his individual holding those opinions being the
Majesty's Speech anticipated, but would first minister of state. Upon what grounds,
shake to the very centre the Protestant then, did the right hon. gentleman .now
institutionss of the realm. come forward to justify and make palat-
SMr. C. Pelham thought that the pro- able, that measure, which, a short time
posed measure would be most injurious to ago, he made the reason for seceding from
theliberties of the country. He considered office? That step must have been taken
the explanation which the right. hon. from personal objections. He lamented
Secretary had given highly unsatisfactory, the course which had been pursued by the
and expressed his deep regret at the right right hon. gentleman, for more reasons
hon.' gentleman's abandonment of the than one. He lamented it for the imme-
principles which he had hitherto main- diate cause; he lamented it for the sake
tainted with so much firmness and success. of the right hon. gentleman himself; he
Colonel Rochfort said, he rose to enter lamented it because, in future, no confi-
his protest against the address. The hon. dence could be placed in the assurances
member for Dublin had correctly stated- of any minister. He did not feel himself
the opinions and conduct of the Protes- at present called upon to give implicit
tants of Ireland. That statement he confidence to that minister whose conduct
could corroborate in every particular, as did not admit of explanation. But, what-
to the county he had-the honour to repre- ever might be the resolution of the cabinet,
sent. A vast majority of the Protestants there was, thank God! a power not less
of that county, of all ranks and denomina- potent than the cabinet--he meant the
tions, were, against further concessions to voice of the people. He trusted that be-
the Roman Catholics; and they were aetu- fore this grand alteration of the constitu-
ated by no motives but a sense of the tion was made, the prerogative of the
danger of granting to them political power. Crown would be exercised by the dissolu-
General Gascoyne said, that as an tion of that House; and he had no doubt,
'Englishman and a Protestant, he must in that case, that the voice of the people
declare the apprehension which had been would be not only intelligible,'but would
excited in his mind by the language in the teach a lesson to future ministers which
Speech from the Throne. He had listened they would not soon forget. The hon.
with great attention to the right hon. gentlemen around him need no longer
gentleman's explanation, and he must say despair of obtaining universal'suffrage and
that a more unsatisfactory one he had parliamentary reform: they had nothing
never heard since he had a seat in that to do but to get up an association, and
House. The right hon, gentleman had, straight the alarmed minister would come
at .once and without reasonable cause, down to the House with a proposal to
changed those principles which he had grant all they wanted. Let them try an
held for five and twenty years. By main- association, and, doubtless, in a few years
training his former opinions, the right hon. what we have now heard upon the subject
gentleman was placed at the head of a of Catholic concessions will be repeated of
great party in the country, and was sup- radical concessions [hear, and a laugh].
posed, from his repeated declarations of The hon. members for Aberdeen and
adherence to his opinions, to be the main Westminster cheered him. Well might
stay of, that party; but now he had left they cheer.; for their dreams had never so
his opinions and his party in the lurch, great a chance of being realized. Let hon.
What was the language of the right hon. members say what they would, this had
Secretary when Mr. Canning succeeded been the work of the Catholic Association,
to office? *The right hon. gentleman had which'had gained an ascendancy over the
stated upon that occasion, that it was inm- minds of his Majesty's ministers. How-
posible for him to remain in office, hold- ever he might regret his differing from
in;the'setihnents-which he did upon this hon. friends with whom h' had generally
question that he thought it his duty, agreed, he should nevertheless fulfil his






97 4ddrcss'oh the [FE
duty to his constituentt, and oppo-e every
motion in favour' of Catholic emancipa-
tibn.' His opinion was, that the question
was brought on premat'prelv. Not one
t;r:nth'bf thie rnTnimbLs of thl House had
yet cohye up. .nllyan members remained
in the country, not believing it possible
that suLh a nimeasiir as this was occupying
the attention of his Majesty's government.
Hie hoild have many opportunities, and
he would avail himself of every one of
them, of opposing the measure that was
to bt: proposed; and if he should not be
supported in that House, he should be by
the general voice of the people. He dis-
appiuJed of the recommendation in the
Speech, and could not but, enter his pro-
test both against the Speech and the Ad-
dress.
Lord Ashley said, he was glad that this
question was at last likely to be brought
into a tangible shape, so that the House
might' ascertain, on the one hand, what
was demanded in the way of securities,
arid, on the other, what was asked in the
way of concessions. Year after year it
had been before the House, but it had
never arrived at that point when they
could decide with clearness and effect.
Up to the present time, there had been
nothing definite. He rejoiced, therefore,
at the prospect of this great question
being definitively settled. No time had
been so favourable for its adjustment as
the present. It was said, that such a step
involved peril. His answer to that argu-
ment was, that the peril of advancing was
problematical, whilst that of standing still
was certain. The peril that pressed hard-
est upon us was that of weakened re-
sources, a divided people, an impoverished
country, and the enmity of a nation which
ought to be England's right arm. Parlia-
ment could have no better security for the
safety of the measure, that would be pro-
posed than the character of his right hon.
friend.
Mr. H. Grattan said, he was no flatterer
of ministers, but he could not help saying,
that. he highly approved of the conduct of
the right hon, gentleman opposite. -Ho-
nourable members had talked of the right
hon. gEntlemnin having deserted his
coloursn ; but what was it he had, in fact,
done? He had, tor dowap a standard
which wais irninical to die pace of the
country. His words thbt rii;htt uwuld lay
l6w the Orauge standard ofithe north olf
Irelanid, and preveiit the raising of the
VOL. XX.


. 5.] ing'speec. 98
green standard of til, south., hlikAs,
and not reproaches, wgre .de to the riglit
hon. gentleman for his conduct : Ibr hlid
those standards tunie itilo couIsLo'u tihr
most fearful results might have followed.
Every man at all acquJaiiitdl with Iieland
knew that a crisis was ;ipproacjing rin
Ireland; that property was valuelesS,:asd
that all men f-.o,:d onice inille w\is ready
to explode beneath their feet. rBut' how
would things be changed when it-w;as
known that the benevolent inteitiuns of
his Majesty expressed with regard-to -,Ie-
land, thirteen years ago, when princeiof
Wales, had been uttered from the throne ?
He should have wished, ,however, that'he
two passages in his Majesty's Speech
relative to Ireland had been, inverted'in
their order. Had the last been first, the
first would not have been necessary. The
Catholic Association had declared thatsas
soon as emancipation was granted,'lit
would dissolve itself; for, as' soon as
emancipation was granted, it would be
useless, as the tranquillity which, by the
papers on their table, it appeared, to
to have been chiefly instrumental in pre-
serving in the south of Ireland, would
then be established. Honourable ~em-
bers had talked of intimidation, ;arid of
ministers having yielded improperly:to
such intimidation. The Catholies would
have been the veriest reptiles, had they riot
used every means in their power to obtain
their just rights. If intimidation were a
means, they were justified in- using :it.
Was not the great charter, the boast 'of
Englishmen, obtained by intimidation-?
The ministers of the present day, wiser
than the ministers of king John, had not
waited until it became absolutely neces-
sary for the people .to extort their rights
by force of arms. The ministers of Charles
1st had braved the intimidation used to-
wards them; they had waited until thit
period arrived ; and the consequence had
been, not only that the people extorted
their rights, but, that it had cost the 4ife
of the monarch. In 1775, the ministers
neglected the warnings that were given
them, until the confederation ,in America
was formed. Did .honourable men-bers
wish the ministers.:of the rires,:nt da.i 10
wait until another confederation Wasa rnr4t
ed, which would, perhaps, have.for.cced-the
Catholicsto st-ei- the ti%. t\hich should
exist indissolully bent een -Irel-and. 'ar
Great Britairn?, It was sabisfactory--' o
think that there were still noble hearts
E






Acdtdress on the'


[COMMONS,]


King's Spe'em.' 100


which beat with love of country, and high-
mindied feeling whlich'could sacrifice itself
for the public good. He was sorry, how-
ever, that the part relating to the Associa-
tion sho-ild ha\e been introduced into his
Majeity's Speech, as it showed that some
severe measure was in contemplation; at
least some measure stronger than had been
hitherto passed to put down the Catholic
Association. If such a measure were
intended, he trusted it would be of a tem-
porary nature. Besides, it would be un-
wise to make so serious an infringement
upon the constitution, at the same time
that our fellow-subjects, hitherto strangers
to it, were about to partake of its benefits.
He trusted, however, that the sentiments
which had been expressed by some hon-
ourablq members that night would render
vunncesary any act of violence to the, con-
stitution. He hoped the people of Ireland
would listen to the advice of their friends,
an4.,djissolvethe Association. They would
thus secure the benefits of peace and pros-
perity to their country, which had been so
long distracted; but he hoped better days
were about to rise qpon it.
Sir James Mackintosh said, he did not
rise to prolong the debate. There were
some' pints of the Speech which he
would readily pass over without discus-
sion, but there were others, as to our fo-
reign relations, with respect to which he
entertained great doubts, and should pro-
bably hereafter ask for information. He
would commence the few words he in-
tended to address to the House by ex-
pressing the satisfaction-greater than on
any former public occasion-which he had
felt at the Speech which the king's minis-
ters had advised his Majesty to deliver to
parliament, illustrated, as it had been, by
the, clear, explicit, and sufficiently ex-
planatory commentary of the right hon.
gentleman opposite, who, as it appeared
to him, would have been wanting in duty
and prudence if he had expressed more
fully the nature and purport of the propo-
sition which ministers intended to submit
to parliament. He trusted and believed,
that this Speech of his Mlajesty would
prove, in its results, the happiest commu-
nication that ever was made from the
throne of England-a communication
tending to produce national harmony and
uannirity, in which England, by doing
justice tSoIreland, would widen and deepen
t1~ foundations of her own safety and
p'isperity. ',The hen. bartnet, the noble


marquis opposite, and the hon.'"neraben
foriDorsetshire, whose consistencv'he un-
feignedly respected, had talked 'of not
yielding to intimidation H e had seldom
ventured to s.i est advice to his Majesty's
ministers, but he would say, that they had
a ready and effectual anSwer to this impu-
tation upon them, and that answer' as to
be found in the language thwri w'; ou
against them by those very opponents
for they had informed the House,; and
through the House the country, that it
was their wish to stir up a spirit of popu-
lar opposition against the passing'of the
intended measure for the relief of the .Ca-
tholics. This threat was held out against
the king's ministers-he used the word
not in an improper sense-but he mainl,
trained that there was an endeavour, by ex
citing the fear of a popular opposition, to
dissuade his Majesty's governinernt, or
rather to deter them, from carrying into
effect the measures they were prepared to
submit to parliament. He was confident
that they would defeat the hon. members
opposite by persevering in. their designrsin
spite, not only of the popular opposition
with which they were threatened, but the
actual clamour that might be raised agaitut
them. In this manner would they show
that they could withstand the real intiani-
dation attempted to be exercised 'over
them. He should think himself unworthy
to take any part in this discussion, if he
hesitated to adopt the recommendation of
his hon. and learned friend. It was of no
importance from what quarter this mea-
sure came, or by whom it was proposed or
carried. It was a measure for establish-
ing religious liberty and national tna-
nimity, and for upholding and ensuring
the safety and greatness of the British em-
pire. On these grounds he should coin-
elude with stating, that he felt greater de-
light at the transactions of that day. than
at any public event he had ever, wit-
nessed.
Sir Francis Burdett said, he could not
suffer the occasion to pass, without stating
that he cordially concurred in all that had
been said by his hon. and learned friend
(Mr. Brougham), and more especially in
the advice he had given to the Catholic
Association; which, he'ventured to say,
was the wisest and safest, and the most
convincing argument that could be adi
dressed to the honest, though pr'ejidided,
portion of the people of this country.
This'nieasuie wbvti unre ril eit ei iu sup-






101 Couvt qf Chanaery.


port of the justice pf.the Catholic claims;
and a-l,/naenwould feel, that there wa's
mgresof idatger from refusing the Catho-
lics their righiis, than from yielding to the
pl~judi s which; hecould not deny, many
bhnet.:l npem t still entertained. At the
same time, he must take that opportunity
of expressing his gratification that, under
circumstances so d iffi-t Ilt as those in which
the dutke of \Wellingion was placed, he
should have been able to prepare and ma-
ture the minds of so many persons, so as
to induce them to comply with his views,
and to bring to this point a question of
such vast importance. He was unwilling
to check the grateful and joyfulfeelings
of the country at this measure, by any ani-
madversions or remarks of any description
on other parts of the Speech ; but he felt
it right to say, that he agreed in opinion
with his right hon. and learned friend, in
thinking, that there were some topics
which required investigation. With re-
gard to the statement which had been
made by the right hon. Secretary, he con-
sidered that, so far from deserving any
blame or reproach, for any part of his con-
duct, he was entitled to the support of
every honest man; on the simple ground,
that he had risked what he had done, for
the purpose of a great public object. Let
his reasons or his motives be what they
might-whether a sincere change of senti-
ment, or a concession to circumstances-
he had taken the opportunity of effecting
a great public good. He must have con-
quered many misgivings, and undergone
many taunts from his former friends: but
he found, at the present moment, after a
consideration of the difficulties of this
question, that balancing the advantages
against the disadvantages, the former
preponderated in favour of the line of
conduct he now adopted. There was no
computation on the right hon. gentleman
for the course he had pursued; on the
contrary, there could be nothing more ho-
nest, wise, and upright, than for a man in
the right hoen gentleman's responsible si-
tuation candidly confessing the difficulties
of the case, and consenting to support a
measure to which he had once strongly
objected. He hailed the intended mea-
sure as the harbinger of peace to the.two
kingdoms, which would make the union a
union of heart, and thereby fulfilling the
intentions of those who brought about that
measure. He hailed it as the means of
strengtheiiing the country u within and with-


out, in its domestic concerns and its fo-
reign relations. With regard to the noble
duke who had brought forward, a question
of that magnitude, he deserved the sup-
port, and he would meet with it, of every
candid and unprejudiced man. Never
had he anticipated such pleasing conse-
quences as he expected from this measure
and when the duke of Wellington brought
it forward, he should have in him, haow.
ever feeble an advocate he might be, at least
one sincere and honest defender.
The Address was then agreed to.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
Friday, February 6.
MINUTES.] Mr. W. WHITMORB gave notice, that he
would, on the 10th of March, move for Select Com-
mittee, to inquire into the State of the Trade between
Great Britain, the East Indies, and China.-Mr. LfrtLnB
TOM gave notice, that he would, on the 17th of Febnrary,
move Resolutions to abolish Fees and Charget on rep;gw
of Turnpike Bills.-Mr. Secretary Psas gave notice,
that, on Tuesday, he would move for leave to bring'il a
Bill, for the Suppression of Dangerous Associations lt
Ireland. -Mr. VILLERS STBWART gave hotjC@, thpt hi
would, on the 7th of May, bring forward a motion on
the State of the Irish Poor, with a view to their relief
from Parochial Assessment.

COURT OF CHANCERY.] Mr. M. A.
Taylor begged leave to ask his right hon.
friend opposite, a question relative to the
Court of Chancery. He had given notice
of a motion on that subject; but his
course would depend on the answer he
received. He wished to know whether
there was any measure in -contemplation
to expedite the business of that court,
according to the view held out, in 1827,
by the lord Chancellor ?
Mr. Secretary Peel stated, in answer
to his hon. friend, that he was aware the
lord Chancellor was strongly impressed
with the necessity of some arrangement,
to facilitate the business of the court of
Chancery; He also knew that it was the
learned lord's intention to submit some
proposition to that branch of the legisla-
ture to which he belonged.
Mr.. M. A. Taylor was satisfied with
what his right hon, friend had said, and
should simply, move for the returns, with-
out opening any discussion.
Mr. Brougham hoped that the noble
lord would bring forward his bill as
speedily as, possible, for it was desirable
for many considerations, amongst which
a most urgent one was the expediency.of
fixing the-period of the.Easter term. This
,year, the day of tlhe month ep which
E2


Court of Chqncery. 102


.[F, 6.)






103 Roman Catholic Claims. [COMMONS,] Roman Catholic Claims. 1Q)


Easter Sunday should fall, was a matter
of dispute; some asserting that it should
be on tle 19th, and others on the 26th of
April. It was therefore to be hoped, that
theblearned lord would not delay his bill,
nor. await the report of the law commis-
sion, for a remedy for the inconvenience
to/which he had alluded.
Mr. Peel said, he could not offer any
opinion on the question alluded to, until
le had consulted the law officers of the
Crown'.

ROiMA CATHOLIC CLAIMS-PETI-
TIONS FOR AND AGAINST.] Sundry peti-
tions were presented for and against any
further concessions to the Roman Catholics.
- Sir T. Lethbridge, on presenting a peti-
tion from a parish in Somersetshire observed,
that though this was the first he had to pre-
sent, it would not be the last. This peti-
tion had been prepared under very differ-
ent circumstances from those under which
it was presented, but it w'as still impor-
tant, as speaking the sentiments of the
people ag.a;ist the claims of the Roman
Catholics.
The Solicitor-general said, he had a
petition to present against the Catholic
claims, the language of which was so firm,
but temperate, as to entitle it to the par-
ticular attention of the House. It was
from the :dean and chapter of the cathe-
dral church of Chester, and it began by
entering their protest against the extra-
vagant demands and imperious tone of
the Roman Catholics, whose claims, they
affirmed, could not be conceded in con-
sistency with the safety and permanence
of the Established Church; and finally,
it prayed the House not to sanction any
compact with any foreign see which might
indirectly acknowledge the existence of
its supremacy in this country.. The
learned gentleman stated that, for his own
part, if he saw any probability of success
in any longer resisting these claims, he
would still hold himself bound to oppose
them ; but he would say, that the security
of the whole empire, in his judgment,
called on the legislature to consider with
deliberate attention, the claims that were
,made upon them; and he felt that he
hould'better discharge the duty which
h owe.j to those who had sent him there,
arid to his country, in bestowing whatever
time' hbe coild apply to the purpose of
f.firihi,' de:..i-ing, and perfecting such
secuities asou ttiild establish permanently


and inviolably the Protestant Ascendancy
in this county, than by wasting his tine
in single'and fruitless opposition' to all
concession.
Mr. John Wobd said, he had petiti6 tr
to present.from a large body of Protestant
Dissenters in Liverpool in fTi our of the
Catholic claims. He was glad that, 1y
this petition, they had redeemed 'their
pledge, that if the Test and Corporation
acts were repealed, they would not cease
to petition until all disqualifications were
removed from others. The petition was
signed by highly respectable men. 'He
had shewn the signatures to the members
for Liverpool, and they had admitted that
none could stand higher. Among then
was that of Mr. Roscoe. Last night, the
gallant general (Gascoyne) had expressed
his hope that the king would exercise his
prerogative and dissolve parliament. But
he was sure that if the cry of No. Popery"
was raised, it would fail, as it had done at
the general election, in 1826. 'Against
himself that cry had been raised :t Pres-
ton, but it had no effect; for he was re-
turned by an overwhelming majority,
though it was known he was friendly to
the Catholic claims.
General Gascoyne admitted that the
names attached to the petition were highly
respectable. He approved equally of" the
mode in which they expressed themselves,
and the person they had selectedto:bring
their petition forward; because 'fthe must
be well assured that his own conduct
would justify them in not committing it to
his hands. If he was rightly informed, the
hon. gentleman would soon be instriActed
by his constituents to bring forward a
petition of a very different iaturer. He
was quite satisfied that if there were' a
dissolution, the hon. gentleman would
no longer represent the place for hich he
sat at present.
Mr. Huskisson said, that the hon. knem-
ber for Preston had stated to 'him, 'in
private, the reasons that had deprived him
of the satisfaction of presenting the pe-
tition. He felt that this was an occasion
when he should vindicate his own con-
sistency on all quae li.s. atf'ectii, iili~ious
liberty in this country) adjl li1l .id; and
he would, therefore, state, that the grounds
on which he had declined to support the
repeal of the Test and, Corporation' acts
were .-olel\ that he napprelinded 'that, ''f
it 1recedled the concession of the.Catholic
claims, it would operate aftei wards as an






1'05 'Addes'i on the [FeB. 6. 1 King's Speech. 106
Stable fo teiir success. Tii measure ing at would be obtained: He, however,
was one that must necessarily extend sincerely hoped that theymight be able to
religious liberty to all classes of his Ma- succeed, because he was aware of its great
jesty's subje,.ts.;and he should, therefore, and vital importance to the whole empire.
giye his most cordial support to it. If on He was well aware of the general feeling
that occasion he was under any mistake, which existed in the mind of the people of
at least it was not applicable to this England, and of that which existed in the
subject, about which there could be mind of the people of. Ireland also.;, he
no misunderstanding, for he had ex- was quite aware that the settlement of the
pressly stated, that most of his con- question, even though it should be settled
stituents were Dissenters from the Es- in a manner contrary to his wish, was
tablished Church, and were much too en- much more desirable than to leave it in a
lightened not to wish for the extension of state of agitation. His only reason for
religious liberty throughout the empire. rising was, to declare to the House that he
In that.opinion he had since been con- should, during the further progress of the
firmed by facts which had come within his measure, watch.with the greatest anxiety
own knowledge; and whatever was the what that measure was to be-that he
impression under which he might have should, with the utmost anxiety, endeavour
acted, at least it must be admitted by to procure for that portion which had
every one who had observed his conduct, hitherto been contradistinguished from
that he was not one of those who wished the Roman Catholics by the term of the
to exclude any class of the king's subjects Protestant part of his Majesty's subjects,
from the benefits of civil liberty, which the best terms of capitulation that he
w:as intended for all. could, for the safety and inviolability of
those interests which, for so many years,
ADDRESS ON THE KING's SPEECH.] had been the exclusive right of the Pro-
Sir T. Lethbridge said, he would take testants of the country.
that opportunity of offering a few words Mr. Leslie Foster said, he would take
on the Address, although it was far from that opportunity of briefly, but, freely,
his intention to offer any opposition to its looking at the situation in which that
bein,, r>-ceived: butas hehad hadno oppor- House was placed by the recommendation
tunity on the previous evening of address- of his Majesty; and he should do this the
ing the House, he would say a few words more freely, as he stood untrammelled.by
on the present occasion. The Speech of any circumstance that could besupposed
lis ,1~ajesty contained a recommendation to give him an undue bias on the subject.
to. the House to take into consideration He was no Orangeman-he was no Bruns-
the' civil disabilities under which the wicker; neither the one nor the other had
Roman Catholics laboured, with a view, the smallest claim upon him. On the
no doubt, to bring about a reconciliation contrary, he had subjected himself, to
between that portion of the king's subjects much inconvenience and attack by refus-
and those who were opposed to their ing to join those parties. At the same
claims. He had sat for a great many time he must state, that it was the furthest
years in that House, and had felt it to from his intention to express any sentiment
be his duty on all occasions, when this in favour of those Associations. As he
manasure had been brought forward, to had said before, he had always steadfastly
give a vote against any such proposition. refused to have any thing to do with them.
Taking into consideration this recommen- The reasonthat induced him now to in-
dation to the House, he could not look terfere with the subject was, the hope
upon it in any other light than that it was of being able to point out the necessity of
to form a great act of the legislature; making what he would call a Protestant'
especially as it came, in this instance, settlement of this question; .for this there
from what might be called n, isolated was an absolute necessity. He did not
quarter. He must say, for hi own part, mean to cast blame upon any one; but he
that he had always been opposed to the mustsay, that it appeared to hitm, that
consideration of the Catholir clnim.s:, for manyyears, there hadl bIh-: no :-fei.iett,
those opinions still remained ouchanged no real government in Ireland [hear. hear!].
i imjndi;i and he could no entertain He was quite willing to aidaii t ilat Iil tw.s
any expertatiol'. tlht the rpsult which is the f~yltpfnoboqily;.bp t, on tlie ctiotiary,
Majesty's go ernmennt appeared to be aim- resulted from the adherence to principle of







1)7 Address oa the


[ COMMONS, ]


Kbig'i S~i108


those individuals who collectively formed
the'British cabinet. In this extraordinary
dilemma, one of two things must necessa-
rily be the result: if they were to have a
government in Ireland strong enough to
act on any definite principle (whether that
principle should be Catholic or Protestant),
it was impossible that the British govern-
ment should be sufficiently strong to act
as the head ; on the contrary, if the British
cabinet comprehended such statesmen as
were adequate to their task, it was incom-
petent, with that state of things, that their
representatives in Ireland should act on any
definite plan.-He would now mention
the grounds which had induced him to
change hiscourse. Thegovernment in Ire-
land had laid the flattering unction to their
soul that they should be able to manage
matters so as to give a triumph to neither
party;" but the consequence had been,
that they had accorded a triumph to every
party, and had shrunk under their own
weakness; the natural result of which had
been, that they displayed nothing but
deafness towards Protestant remonstrance
on one hand, and blindness to Catholic
violence, on the other. But, though the
government of Ireland was, by the course
it pursued, rendered thus feeble and un-
decided, another government arose, in
which the real power of the country might
be said to be vested--a government that
arrogated every thing to itself, and that
did not scruple to spread its power, by
means of every possible ramification.
He hardly need say, that he alluded to
the Catholic Association, which for some
time had exercised a higher and more
powerful sway than any other government
in that country. Whoever had watched
what had been taking place in Ireland
during the last few months-whoever had
observed the course that had been pur-
sued by that body-would find it impos-
sible to deny that fact. This newly-
created government had been moulded
into the form of the purest democracy,
but at the same time it was furnished with
all necessary arrangements to carry on its
machinery; it had its established church,
which was connected with it in a manner
that no other church had ever yet been
connected with any government. It had
its own separate army of tax-gatherers to
collect its. funds and supplies. It had
its own system of finance-its own orga+
nised militia; and'--that nothirin migih be
wanting-it had its distribution t' offices


and honours. All these things ore an
extraordinary similitude to what took place
in the tima of Cl les Ist, just before' the
breaking out of the civil.war. There were
two governments in England then,' as
there were two id Ire-land now. The great
question, then, was, what that House,
under these circumstances, "as to do,?-
what course it would be wise to pursue ?
-what steps it would be prudent to adopt ?
But, while they consideredthis, he begged
to caution them that there was no change
in affairs in Ireland; parties might appear
to be quiet, but they were only resting
on their arms, in expectation of what.
should next take place. Indeed, he did
not hesitate to say, that things were as
nearly as possible ripe for a civil war, and
that it was difficult to tell how soon the
first flames of it might burst out. There
were, in his view of the case, three plans,
one of which his Majesty's ministers would
be compelled to adopt in their settlement
of this most important question. The
first was, to leave the result to the issue of
a civil war, for such must be the inevitable
consequence of interfering in no' way;-
the second was a settlement of the Catho-
lic claims upon Catholic principles; and
the third was a settlement of those claims
upon Protestant principles and upon Pro-
testant policy. With respect, then, to the
first he might safely assert, that no mem-
ber of his Majesty's government could say
that he would not deserve impeachment,
if he suffered matters to proceed to such
an issue; and, for himself, he would say,
that he would not only not endure the
responsibility of suffering such a result,
but would necessarily consider it his
bounden duty to do the utmost to .pre-
vent it. With respect to the second plan,
he should always resist it; and, if any
portion of the intended measure were
founded upon such a principle, it cold
never have his support. He was, however,
happy .to have an opportunity of stating
his conviction that, as the measure was
placed in the hands of those with whom
it now remained, the course that would be
pursued would be essentially the reverse
of this second plan; and he could not but
regard the noble duke at the head of his
Majesty's government, the right hon.secre-
tary who represented the government,
in that House, and the other nmemlhers of
the cabinet, as sufficient guarantees of a
resolute determination to uphokl the in-,
terests of the Protestant church.' Therm







wasfo a pemberof that cabinet in whom thing to avert the consequences which
he.coufid not repose entire confidence; and would otherwise result from the exSting
he, f lt .assured that their conduct would state of things in Ireland.
be, guided by thr diepcst desire to pre- Mr. G. Dawson said, he rose with ftel-
srve uniniuitd tlhe Prortstant church of ings of peculiar satisfaction to tongratu-
Great Britain. He would not now enter late the House and the country upon the
vppuO that portion of the subject which happy announcement contained in his
related to the securities to be demanded Majesty's Speech. He looked upon'the
and received. But he wished to call the decision to which the House lid last night
attention of the House briefly to the dif- come, as the most fortunate- irctrmi-
ference between concessions upon Catho- stance, the happiest event, that could be
lic and concessions upon Protestant prin- found recorded in the page of Irish his-
ciples. If the Roman Catholics were to tory for a long period. He looked upon
he admitted into office, or to seats in that it as the dawn of theptosperity of Ireland,
House, it ought to be required of them that after her long night of misery and wretch-
their religion should in no way make its edness. It afforded him the greatest
appearance in the discharge of the func- pleasure to perceive, that at'length that
tions of that office; they should be required healing measure of concession was aboait
-to shut their religion up within their own being passed, which would introduce hap.
hearts-to leave the tenets of their church piness and concord into his native coui-
atthe doorof parliament, andshutthatdoor try, develop her resources, awaken her
upon it. If the question were to be looked latent energies, and enable her to take
at on the mere score of expediency, all her proper station among the nations of
past experience shewed that the discipline the world. These were not new feelings
-and doctrineofthe RomanCatholicchurch in his mind. When last year the Catho-
were incompatible with the principles of lic question was brought under discussion,
the British constitution ; and, therefore, he had taken no part in the debate. His
though the Roman Catholics might at mind had already begun to doubt, whe-
first be let in through good humour, yet their his further opposition to the Catholic
.he was fearful that it would be found be- claims would be justifiable. But he had
fore long that they were troublesome in- to encounter a hard struggle againstmany
mates. Thus much might be said on the and great difficulties. He was the repre-
ground of expediency alone; but he could tentative of one of the most anti:Catholic
tellthe House, that the great majority of' counties in Ireland : by family ties he was
the people of England stood upon much closely connected withoneof the most Pro-
higher feelings than that of expediency; testant families in that country-a family
and he earnestly entreated the House not that had been unfairly and cruelly per-
to proceed any further, without examining secuted by the Roman Catholics of Ireland
into the nature and extent of the pro- The doubts which had at that time flashed
posed measure. He would venture to across his mind merely induced him to
predict, that the entire success of the pause in his opposition to the Catholic
measure depended on consulting those claims; but, in the strict sense of the
peculiar feelings, which arose from their word, he was still unfriendly to them.
having been taught from their childhood, In this state of mind he went to Ireland :
iliat tleRoman Catholicreligionwas vitally and here he would declare firmly and sin-
erroneous in its principles. He knew that cerely, and he only asked for this decla-
there were persons who, thought that all ration the credit which was due to the
religions were equally good, and that there solemn asseveration of a gentleman-
were others who thought them all equally that he went to Ireland in the most per-
,indifferent. It might suit the taste of feet ignorance as to what might be the
such individuals to see two churches es- intentions of his Majesty's government on
sentially opposed to each other, co-existing the subject of Catholic emancipation.
and established together; that they might He went to Ireland; and what did he
thus, as it were, neutralize each other, witness in that country ? Every man
But, such was not the wish of the people arrayed in a manner, against the mem-
of England ; nor wasisuch his feeling, bers of his own family 'every in-
He would repeat his conviction, that it stitution in the coumtr pervetted to' the
was absolutely necessary for his Majesty's most pernicious piipoJcs- every' cabin
P;ernrwet. to, interf, .u, aad' do some- turned into 4 scene of persecutioil, dud all


109 A ddresion, the


[-PB. 6,]


king's Speed.L







claisei of Irimhinen marshalled inahostile: lighted and gratified beyond measure now
ctblidabndiassoeiationsi' He saw that the to find, that thi:. sentiments whiiih! le then
spirit offaction had pervaded every quar- expressed proved to be'alsdthe setimense s
teynand evTry depnmtmnii; and he beheld of his Majesty's government..Hoe,was re:-
jqbiesipand grand juries, and every other" joiced that this question had- been take
e tbli-hmrnt in the'country, perverted to up by the government; being, firmly conm-
ita'purposes., i At that moment, and while vinced, that the concession of the Gatho-
henwa m'under the impression of these feel- lic claims would afford the best security,
iags-, thbee occurred, in the city of Lon- for the maintenance of thp -Protestant
dbnderry,'a celebration of one of the great church and. institutions in Ireland; it
Brotestant anniversaries, at which he was would tranquillize the country,- amalga-
caulld upon to attend. When he heard mate its inhabitants, and open new sources
there sc~itimn lts uttered by a gentleman of wealth and prosperity. These were his
which, 'knowing the strong Protestant matured, and well-considered opinions.
feelings by which he was actuated, ap- He was glad to find that similar opinions
peared to contemplate nothing short of were entertained by his Majesty's govern-
the tot la destruction 'of the Roman Catho- ment; and, whether he should continue
lies of the. country, he could not, as an connected with that government'or not,
honest man, encourage those persons in they should have his most cordial-support
the,,prosecution of what he considered the [cheers]. He trusted that the measure de-
destruction of his Roman Catholic fellow- cided upon by the government would be
citizens As an Irishman anda Christian, introduced at once. For himself, his
he felt it his duty not to sanction projects mind was made up on the subject; and
which-tended to a civil war, nor to lend he had already expressed his solemn con-
hisaid:ta kindle the flame which the per- viction, that the claims of the Catholics of
sons who then surrounded him appeared Ireland ought no longer to be delayed. ,
anxious-to light up throughout the coun- .Mr. Huskisson said, that in rising to
try.r It was said, that he had been in- trouble the House with a few words upon
titaidated by the Catholic Association, this important question, he could not re-
Nasuch -feeling swayed his mind on that frain, in the first instance, fromaexpressing
occasion. ,The power of the Catholic As- the feelings of delight.and gratification
sociationidid not extend to the Protestant with which he had listened to the eloquent
county of Derry,, and he had nothing to and manly speech of the right hon. gen-
feariromthem-there. But he was'actu- tleman who had just sat down. The com-
ated by afear of which he was not now munication which had been yesterday
asharied,-a fear.which became a loyal made to parliament by his Majesty's go-
and,'agood subject,-a fear which, as an vernment, considered in all its bearings,
honest, man, and a Christian, he felt, lest was, in his opinion, looking to all its con-
the tlame of civil -war: should be lighted sequences, the most important and the-hap-
up throughout his native country, and the piest event that had occurred in this coun-
blood-of his fellow countrymen should,-in try since the accession of the House.of
the streets, and highways, be poured forth Brunswick to the throne of these realms.
in a sanguinary and desolating warfare. Standing in his place in that House, and
Under- these, circumstances, he had at- having had the honour of a seat-in it ever
tended this-meeting in Derry, and deliver- since the first agitation of the Catholic
ed the speech which had since attracted question, and anxious.as he was for the
so much animadversion. It appeared to success of that great question, it'was.with
himithat the sentiments which he uttered infinite delight and gratification, .that he
upon that. occasion were those of common found his Majesty's. ministers recommends

sensew.- He thought that the, time had ing it to the deliberate consideration of
arrived-for.a public declaration of those the House, and announcing their intention
sentiments.. ,Without the smallest know- of bringing the question forward as a'go-
ledge at :the moment' as to what was ini vernment question, and of course giving
contemplation in' this country, he: there to it all that just influence and means of
pqlbiely.. avowed his conviction of persuasion which' belonged to thelexecu-
the, necessity of conceding. the Catholic tive of this country., Ithbad gratified'him,
claims, :,i h.: \r,.. -dl:te,'nin'l to follow as it had gratified niany of his -friends,
up.dlatt av-owal I)I hlis vote in'that, House that the person, who now'.proposed- this
in thtbq favo uiv : "Iewas therefQre. *de measure.to the Ho"se, so pregnant'wih


Ufa~i! A ddregs on~ the


COQMMONS) I


King's Speech.






Kbitag' Spieeek- -, -1,14


thea ostiaheneficialm(i esults -was the indi-
vidnabhbyit4 frourhisi 'first appearance- in
piabic liOife, ad felt' it to be his dutyito
give-a&sincere, a fair and honourable, but
atthe same time an (uncompromising and
,deeidedopposition to' this question.-His
right!hon.ifriend, the member for the Uni-
versityof Oxford, in his speech last night,
had, very properly abstained from going
into any explanation of the details of the
great measure now placed in his hands.
But looking at the communication from
the throne, and at the sentiments ex-
.pressed by his right hon. friend, he was
satisfied that it was to be a measure of
grace. As such he trusted it would be
received by those for whose benefit it was
proposed; and he further hoped, that it
would be ample, liberal, and adequate to
the great and important purpose for which
it was intended. It was for such a pur-
pose and with such a view that he, and
those who voted with him on this question,
had uniformly recommended this mea-
sure,-with a view (to use the words of
the resolution which they had so fre-
quently carried in that House) to
strengthen the connexion between the two
countries, to increase the stability and se-
curity of the Protestant establishment, and
to diffuse happiness and concord amongst
all classes of his Majesty's subjects." He
confidently hoped that such results would
follow from the measure about to be pro-
posed to the consideration of the House.
At all events, it.was a subject for congra-
tulation, that the over-powering force of
truth and: justice, in this great intellec-
tual struggle, had at length prevailed over
what he might now be allowed to call
long-cherished prejudices and errors. In
the ,,contest, which he hoped was now
about to be concluded for ever, they had
been long engaged. It had been a severe
and a protracted contest. But every day
and. every hour, during which they had
been. occupied in this struggle, the cause
had been increasing in strength, in, pro-
portion as:it had been growing in import-
ance; until at last it was admitted, that,
it could no longer be left unsettled, with-
out endangering the safety of the country
-nay, until it was distinctly admitted,
that .all further opposition to it must be
unavailing. In connexion with this sub-
ject, ,he could not but congratulate his
noble friend (lord J., Russell) on the gra-
tifying f.-ct, thatthe generous principles
of liberality, that the true principles of


religious liberty, were makiigit greatiand-
rapid [progress in' this, country 'ahd, thMt,
too, in quarters; .where suchairevintiwas
to be least expected. .Why; not two years
had elapsed, since his right, h6n.Jfriend,
the Secretary of State for the Home De-
partment had said, in his place im, that
House, that he, for one, either iapower or
out of power, would strenuously oppose.all
and every concession to the Protestant
Dissenters. But, in the very-last session
of parliament,-and he stated it to his right
hon. friend's honour-he assumed the cha-
racter of a conciliatory moderator, with re-
spect to that very question; and, with his
sincere and effectual assistance, an ar-
rangement was made that was satisfactory
to all parties concerned in the operation
of the Test and Corporation acts. He hoped
that, in the present instance, his right hon.
friend would be able, in the same manner,
with equal success-he was sure that he
would act with equal sincerity-to accom-
plish the repeal of all penal laws and of
all disqualifying statutes, which militated
against the Roman Catholic subjects, and
that he would devise such measures as
would perfectly satisfy those for whom
they were intended, whilst they soothed
and calmed any feelings of apprehension
that might be entertained by others. The
whole of the reasons, as stated by his right
hon. friend on the preceding evening,
which had induced government to under-
take the consideration of this question,
were of the greatest importance. Whe-
ther with reference to the inconvenience
and danger of a continued conflict of opi-
nion between the two Houses of parliament,
or the baneful effects that must flow from
a division of sentiments in his Majesty's
councils, or the mischiefs which must be
generated by differences in the Irish go-
vernment, arising out of dissensions here ;
and, lastly, the important consideration,
whether it was possible to form a cabinet
on the basis of permanent resistance to
the Roman Catholics,-all these points
were brought forward 'with .clearness by
his right hon. friend; and, in his reason-
ing upon them,. as well as in the correct-
ness of the facts adduced, he thought they
must all concur. What.his right hod.
friend had said was perfectly in unison
with the view which he (Mr, Huskisson),
entertained with reference to :the Ca-
tholic question. There was noting newi
in what, had that eveningfallen, from the,
hon..member forLouth'. when : spoke


Address ow lhe


[FEB. 6. ]






U5 Mdpw-oia&s


of tIwtCatholia Association. iSpeches
wee delvered lst year 3by the 4ight hon.
mnetsffos~ Keo y, and by the: olicitor-
gopmefor iraland, containing all the in-
faWeQed which thhe on. memberfor Louth
had drawn. The words were not precisely
th usaine, ;ut his hon. friends had put the
same)arguments, with respect to the in-
fluesee of the Catholic Association: the
danger' of its existence to the country was
by-then most strongly urged, and the re-
edy:was clearly pointed out. Now, why
did -he advert to these things ? Why,
ireraly to observe, that these representa-
tions having made a proper impression on
the minds ofra ministers, who had been
hitherto opposed to any settlement of
these claims, they were the strongest
grounds for believing that they were sin-
eere iA their determination finally to settle
hisleongedebated question. Perhaps he
might regret that those impressions had
nt operated sooner on the mind of his
right hon. friend: [hear, hear]. He
did not mewa to say this with any of that
invidious feeling which some gentlemen
might attribute to the observation; he
made the remark merely with reference
to the importance of this question; for he
woWm isay, that if these impressions had
be~w forttlnately entertained before the
present time, it might have been possible
that a lamented friend of his (Mr. Can-
iaBg),. whose unceasing exertions, whose
splendid: eloquence, and whose brilliant
talents had greatly contributed to forward
and mature this most interesting question,
hoth in parliament and in the public mind,
night, perhaps, in the dispensation of an
au-wise Providence, have been spared to
witness the triumph ofhislabours;-might
have been enabled in that House to dis-
charge those duties, in bringing his labours
to a close, which now devolved on his
right hon. friend. He hoped his right
hon. friend would not mistake the. feeling
woder which he spoke. He was sure,
after dthe statement which he had heard
his right hon. friend make last year,--and
i e the. sincerity of which, he, for one,
entirely believed,-he was sure, after the
sentiments which his right hon. friend
then expressed, that he must have under-
gone a most painful struggle between his
own personal feelings and the feelings of
duty to is sovereign and to his country,
before th.determined to pursue the course
whio~h4iead-happily adopted. In taking
such a step, his right hon,:friend had, no


doubt,'made a great publie;if ie and
he felt convinced that his righthW. fread
could not believe that hsIhad4 broight
forward this topic from, any -akiJA4olr
uncourteous motive. Place bowwver&,s
he was, before the House, h ::could iet
control this expression of his feeling.,i He
looked forward to the future with confi-
dence; and he entertained the most
sanguine assurance, that the best results
would be produced by the contemplated
concessions. He wished not to allude
farther to what had gone by,, except to
state his regret.that his right hen. friend
had not, at an earlier period, adopted the
system which he now recommended. The
hon. member for Louth had said, that he
was very much disposed to support views
on this subject which he did not formerly
uphold in that House; and, that he was
content to do this from the confidence he
had in those who were placed at -he head
of the government, as their ardent feelings
for the welfare of the Protestant establish-
ment led him to think that it was better
to place the question in their hands than
in those of any other persons who might
desire to bring forward this measure of
concession. He was well aware of the
warm attachment which was felt by his
noble friend in another place for.the-esta.
blished religion; he knew that his noble
friend felt the strongest desire to insure
the safety of that religion; but, while he
admitted this, he must claim, for his right
hon. friend now no more, and for himself,
humble individual as he was, as great, as
sincere, as powerful an attachment to. the
Protestant church as any member of the
establishment could possibly feel. And,
amongst other reasons, it was from firm
conviction, that the established institu-
tions of the country would be moresecurely
maintained by agreeing to these conces-
sions than by opposing them, that he sup-
ported this question. When he before
stated his sentiments on this subject, he
had observed, that, while he was warmly
attached to the Catholic cause, he disr
liked the tenets and doctrines of the
Catholic. religion. Such was still his
feeling; but he conceived that in legis*
lating on this question they had nothing
to do with those tenets or doctrines. But
it appeared that within a very sort time
the tenets of the Catholic church~ihad
ceased to be regarded, by many gentlemen
with that horror which they heretofore
i excitedW they seemed to have been aud


r COMdMONJS, ]


, Wing'& Spaeth.






Address on the


(tTa. B..


denly co wlted[tear and a laugh]. He
eould N iy"yattribute to some natural
tanse--tb.Wsole strange influence of the
mtniosphere anot well understood,-the
very numerous and important conversions
that had taken place since that day week.
H1 had nodoubt, however, that one day
brother they should have some better
explanation of the cause which had pro-
duced, such extraordinary effects. He had
no doubt that the impartial pen of history
would do full justice to those causes which
had led to such satisfactory results. It
was not for him to attempt an exposition.
of those causes, and he could only join
with others in expressing his gratification
in witnessing results which were likely to
confer so many and such lasting benefits
upon the people of Ireland and of Eng-
land. With these feelings, he was dis.
posed to give his cordial support to the
address, although it might be admitted,
that it contained many things which he
could wish had been omitted. He was
not, for instance, prepared to admit that
the. Catholic Association ought to be de-
soribed as the cause of the discord and ill-
will which, at the present moment, pre-
vailed in Ireland. In speaking upon
that subject, he begged,-however, that
he might not be misunderstood. He
fully agreed with that description of
the Association contained in the Speech,
where it was described as being incon-
sistent with the spirit of the constitution,
dangerous to the public peace, and likely
to obstruct every effort permanently to
improve the condition of the people. It
was, indeed, impossible to calculate the
consequences which might ensue from the
existence of such an Association, under
different circumstances than those in
which they were now about to be placed:
but-when they spoke of its creating and
keeping up the ill-will which prevailed in
Ireland, he must deny the correctness of
the assertion. He would contend, that
the Association was only evidence of the
cause of ill-will, but was not the cause
itself. In the language, of one of the most
eloquent advocates ofI Catholic rights,
once the ornament of that House, but now
deservedly elevated to the other (lord
Plunkett), he might say that these per-
petuations of discord and ill-will were the
spawn of our own wrong," and could
only'be removed by the removal of those
causes, which brought them into life. It
was, indeed, uanch to be wished that the


governmen-t oould&hav been induced to
wait the effect-of. the treinbval- of those
causes, before they had, determined'ispun
any legislative enactment/with irespectrtt
the Association, and that they hadpTei
mitted it to expire from the absenoae dfi
cause to give it excitement. But, be~thft
as it might, he had an entire -coafidenea
in the good faith of the government, and
was not at all disposed to offer any oppo#
sition to the bill for suppressing the Asses
ciation, although it might not at;oneteba
accompanied by a measure of relief to the
Catholics.-He did not wish to obtrude
himself any longer upon the attention o'
the House, and he should therefore merely
observe, with reference to other parts of
the Speech, that the proceedings adopted
towards Greece had his fall and eatime
approval; and he was satisfied that every
thing which had been done in the Eastif
Europe, in conjunction with our Allies,
had been done in the full spirit of the
treaty of the 6th of July 1827, and that
the exertions of the government of this
country had been unceasingly directed to
the establishment of the independence of
Greece, and the prevention of the unne-
cessary effusion of blood. He remarked,
that the language used in his Majesty's
Speech at the opening of the, present
session, upon the subject of the blockade
of the Dardanelles by the fleet of the
emperor of Russia, was very different from
the language used, in the last session, in
the Speech delivered from the Throne at
its close. At the close of last session it
was distinctly declared to the House, that
his majesty, the emperor of Russia, -' had
consented to waive the exercise, in: the
Mediterranean.sea, of any rights appertain-
ing to his imperial majesty in thecoharacter
of a belligerent power."* Now, it was
understood beyond all question 'ati the
time, that the emperor of Russia had
pressed his right to the exercise of this
power, and that he had been induced to
abandon it, solely on account :of the
urgent remonstrances of the government
of this country. This he knew wat: the
interpretation put upon the declarationin
the Speech, and.so it had been reported
and considered by every mercantile man in
the country; and he knew too, that the
abandonment of this right was construed
into a great boon obtained for our com-
merce by the successful interposition and

See vol. xixpy 178,


K*'* Speeih.,~ IIIs






190 Addrrei on /the


remonstiancesol'his Majesty's governmi nt.
lh thiepesent Speech' however, it appear E
that his intperial majesty had con-idcredl
it'n eessary to resume the exercise of his
ltelliherent rights in the Mediterranean,
arid h'nd established a blockade of the
Ddrdaihelles." Now he did not see how
these two passages could be reconciled.
4Ie did iot think that a party, who had
gefi'.a consent of this kind, was at liberty
to tesumni .his authority without the con-
sent of'tat 'other party, at whose instance,
not' sir months before, he had announced
his intention to abandon it. It mightbe
said, that an objection of this nature was
iot very material; but he thought that
eerviy hbing wlich concerned the honour
and' dignity of the country was of import-
ance, and' that it was very material to
Khov there had been' no departure from
those principles. and from that course of
policy, which our situation and our cha-
acter b'unid us to maintain. With respect
to that part of' the Speech which alluded
to Portugal, he considered it as giving rise
to''ety reasonable dissatisfaction. He
dould inot undertake, with his present
information, to pronounce any opinion
upon the nature of the relations which now
subsisted between the two countries; but
this lie night say,'that forming a judg-
ment .frbm :appearances, he could not
possibly reconcile either our present posi-
tion, or our past transactions in Portugal,
with' the honour and dignity of the Crown,
oir witth tht course of policy, which, under
the' faith 'of many treaties, had always
placed Portugal in such'close and cordial
alifrice' with this country. He had no
doibt that much of'this admitted of a full
aiid tiifactory'explabation; but he could
asiiur:the''Hoiuse and the government,
thiatsuch was the light in which our
conduct was viewed on the continent of
Europt:e by all those who had witnessed
our forbearance to that person who at
present filled the throne of Portugal,
which throne he had ascended by one of
the foulest usurpations recorded in history;
anrd'it f; is not the least painful, or the
least extraordinary part of that transaction,
th*fih'e person who had violated all those
treaties was, at our own intervention,
placed in that trust which he had so foully
abused. He did not mean to press this
to ic further: but ho hoped that, for the
hoAour aYd diii iiv of the Crovn, and the
re utition of the country, the ait.i, would
be filly and satigfactorily explained., Mi-


nisters might be placed in circumstalce
of difficulty; they might be able t'o shpw
that they had done their' duty, and yet
they might, for a season. ; Iia'e sufficient
reasons for withholding explanation : bui,
when 'the proper time came, the lHouse
had a right to expect that a full disclosure
of circumstances would be made.
Sir J. Newport said, that w whatever joy
he might feel .at finding that:a causi. to
which he had always adhered, aid of
which, during half a century, he had been
the unshaken advocate, was likely to be
crowned with that success which it deserv-
ed, still he did not rise to give expression
to those feelings. His object in address-
ing the house was, as far as an humble
individu could do so, to.offer his advice
to the embers of the Catholic Associa-
tion, in the hope that that advice tou.d
prove beneficial. He r.st, for the purpose
of urging his earnest entreaty on the body
called the Catholic Asuciation, that they
would, without waiting for any legislati-e
acts whatever, forthwith di.solvke thelm-
selves. Their own good sense n ould, hie
hoped, ictate to them the propriety of
taking tis step. He trusted that they
would at once put an end to any j..ilousv
on the pirtof their Prottetant countrxnien,
and, by dissolving themselves, relieve the
government from the necessity of bringing
in a measure for their suppression. It
would give him the most heartfelt satisfac-
tion if they would adopt such a course anid
he firmly believed it would be done, as
he had the highest confidence in the pru-
dence aud discretion of many members of
that AsSociation. He had only to add,
that, wh their the measure of relief to the
Catholi s should be preceded or followed
by othel measures, he hoped that what
was given would not be given p udgii.gll,
but that the boon which the le.;sl'tuie
was about to confer upon Ireland would
be imparted upon such a liberal' and
generous principle as would secure the
gratitude of the Catholics, aid present
the necessity of any further legislation
upon the same subject.
Mr. "?. Smith said, he could state it as
a positive fact to the government, that the
'ppo'itic'n supposed to be felt by the
people of this country to the claims.of their
Catholic fellow subjects was very much
exaggerated. He was connected %ith a
large and considerable county, and he
could assure the House that m:my of the
irhabitanrs--mei who, all their lives, had


~iiCi;ig's~ ~i~zrih.


[ COMMONS, ]






1) .4ddriss oithe Y t[FV
been opposed to Catholic emancipation-
had expresed themselvesto him as being
will p to co-operate in any measure which
government might propose to settle this
queistibh by concessions accompanied with
prope securitii : and they looked forward
with anxiety to the timn when government
would t~ke the business in hand. For
his o% n part, he thought the. satisfaction
at the adlustniernt of this question would
be great and general, he would almost say
universal. It was also to him, on another
account, a matter of heart-felt congratula-
tion that the subject would soon be set at
rest; for it had not only created public
disunion, and embarrassed the proceedings
of'soine of the most able public men, but
it had made its way into private families,
and created ill-feeling and disunion.
The question threatened to produce im-
placable hatred throughout the country;
but its settlement would banish all feelings
of that description, and create, in their
stead, religious peace and general tran-
qumlity. That system which had drained
the country of its resources would now
cease, and the wounds which it had in-
thcted would be healed by those salutary
balms.-religious toleration and political
equality. He thought that a great day
Lad dawnedbotli upon Ireland and Eng-
land; and he was sure that the course
which England had taken would speedily
b6 rewarded by increased prosperity, and
the unvarying attachment of the sister
kingdom.
Lord Althorp .said, he was extremely
happy to find that this great question, so
long an object of dispute, was at length to
be arranged. He had wished, most fer-
'vi tly, during the whole time he had had
a s-.~t in that House, to see this question
finally 'settled. He thought it was now
pinceed in the proper hands. He, and
those with whom he was in the habit of
acting, h.,d long felt that the best, indeed
the only way of insuring the success of
the question, was by its being brought
.forward by the government; but they
never could effect that object, and there-
fore they were obliged to introduce it
separately, and not in a manner so satis-
tfictljry a that in which it was now intro-
duced. He thought the noble duke at
the head of the government deserved great
credit for the mabner in which he had
proceeded. With reference to a point
which hIad been touched on, it woull, in
his opinion, be well to wait to see whe-


, 4., KIi.'s.eeth. ^1
their the concession would not ato nca put
ah end to the Carholic Associatioq,, If
it did :iot, itwould then be tiae flor.the
government to put it down by force, .. ut
he hoped that the recommendation whtlch
they had received from their best. friends
would induce them to disband theisls
immediately, without waiting, for,anY I,
gislative enactment. If, how v\er, a lt
for putting down the Associatio. should
be persisted in, he hoped it would contain
provisions so consistent with the spjrit,qf
a free country, and constitutional lberry,
that he should be able to give it ii
support.. ii
Mr. C. Grant said, he rose to c xpess
the deep gratification which he,. i, igo q
mon with a great portion of that House,
felt, in consequence of the Speech fiom
the Throne-a speech the most, truly
patriotic, the most truly British,,, that .t 4
ever come before them. They.,we;e
united in their vote of thanks for; that
Speech, and assuredly they, ought to be
so; for it was worthy of an enlightened
monarch, who, listening to the repre-
sentations of millions of his subjects, had
recommended their case to the cpnsiderar
tion of his parliament. He felt peculiar
pleasure in thinking, that thiis gr at woik
was about to be perfected, in c.'iIse.jquptnL
of the representation of a sovereign iwh
had felt personal sympathy, for the Iria
people-who had placed himself in pe,.
sonal contact with them. In his opiniqn,
the thanks of every person interested in,
the welfare of the empire were due to tth
noble duke who had given such adi ice to
his Majesty, and who, if this gre.t object
should be accomplished, would render tbei
glorious victory of Witerljoo a seconjdary
portion of his fame. He wished sincereJly
that this great measure of relief ,might
come before them witliout any inmqpm-
brance whatever-without any provisiouls
connected with coercion. Hle thought
such provisions were useless ; because, in
his view of the case, the be-t modei of
doing away with the Catholic Associatiop
was by granting Ctatlholi emancipation,
A measure of a coercive character wonld
seem to betray alarm or distrust, where,
he was sure, none was felt,, and .might
raise su;piciuo where there was perf~'e
confidence at present; but iffwo e4a,
sures were deemed necessary, ,o
wish them to be introduced s.inltanepusy
The principles of the nieasure i ouli ,be
developed in its progrSs; andeyef/p',






( CQMMONS, .


to himself the right of investigating them
at 'the, proper period; he ,should be ex.
tretaijy reluctant to throw any thing like
opposition in the way of this good work.
He confessed that, when he saw the noble
duke at the head of the government ap-
plying' his mind honestly and vigorously
to this, subject, and when he saw him
tupprted by the other members of the
government, he felt very much disposed,
with! the reservation he had mentioned, to
vonfitdLin the measures about to be intro-
duced by his MAjesty's ministers for the
settlement of-this great question; because
he could not help believing that they
mteai:tto act fairly and justly.. The set-
tlement of this question would not be the
triumph of one faction over another, nor
the~igain ofl this party at the expense
of that; it would be a long-desired act
ofi national justice-he had almost said
of national piety. Such a subject should
be. approached with serious and sacred
feelings'; and, in considering, it there
should be not only the total absence of
any thing like angry recrimination, but
the exercise of liberal and enlarged bene-
volence, with the fullest intention of doing
justice to Ireland, and of providing for the
safety of the Protestant constitution of the
country. If such principles were acted
upon a most happy result would be pro-
dubed&. He should envy the feelings of
the duke of Wellington on the day on
which this measure, to which so many
eminent men had devoted their talents,
should be accomplished. He should envy
the feelings of the illustrious duke on the
day on which the doors of parliament
should be thrown open to welcome back
the Howards, the Jerninghams, and the
Talbots, to reclaim the ancient seats and
assert the high station of their ancestors.
There was one person more whose feel-
ings he should envy: he should envy the
feelings of the king of England, when
after this measure had been accomplished,
he should come down to meet the parlia-
ment of his. free, united, and happy
people.
Lord F. L. Gower said, it was not his
intention to have trespassed on the House
at the present onoment, but that he felt
himself called on to offer one observation
iipoo what.had:faMenu from his right hon.
friend, and fiom other hon. members who
,had addressed the House, He alluded to
what had been said with, regard to the
iumaner i which they wished his Majesty's


ministers to carrr into qffeet th-oeat a ewl
which were in contemplation with. respect
to Ireland. WWhen such views t those
now expressed iby the government, ,ver
entertained in such a quarter, and, when
such measures as those now projected .for
Ireland were promised, no man qould ebe
more inclined than he was to say, stand
not on the order of your going.7 He
must however claret, that no part of the
Speech from te Throne had been more
grateful to hin than that which recom.
mended them to arm the executive
government with powers to put down
the Catholic Association. He by: no
means intended to put his humble and
limited experience in competition with that
of the right hon. gentleman who had just
sat down, or with that of the right hon.
gentleman who had preceded him; but,
certainly, on the most deliberate view that
he had been ale to take, from his recent
experience, ha felt that this measure
ought to bepr liminary. He had hitherto
been the advo ate of the Catholic claims;
that advocacy hehad espoused, he trusted,
with temperance, but he had always con-
sidered that the essential part, the elixir
vitce as it were, of any measure of conces-
sion, should be a due protection of the
Protestant interests and a respect for the
Protestant feeling in Ireland. He con-
ceived, that any such measure of conces;
sion should be accompanied *ith a dis-
tinct pledge to the Protestants, of ample
protection, and of avoidance from the
future operation of those consequences of
which the Catholic Association had been
productive. He was ready to admit that
the evils to which he alluded, and which
he wished to see removed, had arisen front,
the state of the law. He admitted that
the law as it stood, was in opposition to
the interests of a great portion of his Ma-
jesty's subjects in Ireland, Protestant as
well as Catholic; but still it was possible
that those evils might continue, even after
the cause which produced them had been
removed. It might be true, as it had baen
conjectured, that the Catholic Association
would expire of itself; but if it did, still
such measures should be taken as would
prevent the possibility of resurgam"
being written on its tomb.
Lord John Russell said, he differed on
this point from ithe noble lord who ,had
just sat down. For his own part
he thought it would have been better
for the government to have said toe he


);Aq's Sp~eech.


Address on he,






Address en tle


Association', You profess? to associate for
thp.l4ptef effedting the removal of cer-
taisittlisilites; we have removed them, and
you have therefore no longer any right or
pretenceto continue your meetings." If,
after this, thb Association had persisted in
assembling, then he was sure there would
have been a general concurrence, on the
part of the House, to grant to the execu-
tive such powers as should enable them to
putlit down. There could be no doubt
that this Association was irreconcilable
with law and authority. It was a self-ap-
pointed government,, thwarting and con-
trolling the real government of the coun-
try, and of which any person might be-
comea member by paying a subscription
of a few pounds. He certainly should
have given all his assistance towards put-
ting down the Association, if he found that
they did not dissolve immediately upon the
removal of the ciuse which had brought
them together. At the same time, how-
ever; they must consider that a very great
step had been gained. The intention of
government had been fully and explicitly
declared. He confessed thathewasmuch
more sanguine than the right hon. Secre-
tary, with respect to the consequences of
the projected measure. He believed it was
pregnant with incalculable benefit to Ire-
land, and security to the state. This be-
ing his conviction, he was unwilling to offer
any obstacle to the progress of the mea-
sure. His Majesty's ministers having in-
vestigated the subject, and fully considered
all the difficulties by which it was sur-
rounded, had come to a determination in
which most other persons probably would
have concurred, if they had been in pos-
session of the same means of information,
and, therefore, it was his wish that he
should not be compelled to offer a single
negative to their propositions. Unless
the proposed measure contained something
very different from any thing that he could
conceive it would contain, his wish would
be gratified, and in none of its stages
should he be found in the character of an
opponent,' The right hon. member for
Liverpool had expressed regrets-which
were extremely natural on his part, and
Tor which he was to be honoured-that this
important measure had not been agreed to
during the lifetime of Mr. Canning. The
gratification with which that' eloquent and
able minister would have hailed this event,
justified the right hon. gentleman in the
sentiments which bb had expressed ; but,.


for his own part; he was unwilling to enter
into such considerations. The fact, that
a consideration of the state of Irelasrdin
past years had :not produced the conveip
tion which it had now effected&;didi not di-
minish the joy which he felt in discovering
that a consideration of the state ofP Ireland
in the year 1829 had convinced ministers
of the necessity of a measure which had
so long been called for ; and he honoured
them, inasmuch as they had preferred ie'.
posing their characters to that obloquy
which always attached to a change of opi.
nion, rather than expose their country to
peril.He confessed he was the more pleased
with this result, because he had long formed
an opinion which time had served to on-
firm, that the success of thisgreat question
mainly depended upon its being madar.t
government measure. There had been so
many persons in authority adverse to the
claims of the Catholics ; measures infh.
vour of the Catholics had found so nany
opponents in the other House of parlia,
ment; there was, moreover, in the Ieople
of this country so great a jealousy'of any
measure on the subject introduced 'by an
individual member; and, lastly, it was
impossible that any member unconnected
with government should propose a mea-
sure which would be satisfactory to the
church, and to the numerous interests con-
nected with it. These were the consider-
ations which had convinced him, that, un-
til the Catholic question was made a go-
vernment question, it could not succeed.
He had, indeed, hoped that the repeated
votes of that House would, at some time,
force the government to take up the ques-
tion ; but with this hope there was joined
in his mind a fear which, as it was riot on
personal grounds, he was not ashamedrto
avow. He confessed he had feared that
events in Ireland would proceed faster
than the legislation of that House; that
the narrow isthmus between great endnr-
ance and resistance would be broken dowh;
and that they would be plunged into a
struggle, in which victory would have
proved one of the most dreadful calamities
that could befal a nation. This fear-not
for himself, but for the safety and welfare
of his country-had sunk deep into his
mind, and he hailed, therefore, with thb
most heartfelt joy, the measures which the
government had determined' to adopt.
He was quite sure the time wa~,ei*ao at
hand when the duke of WellingtbfA t tld
find that, in the judgment of his cmMtoy


[ B. 6. 1'


King's Sperch.






127 Address on the,


the most ~lnading, aureg iu:his crown.was they, prest-i ing their positionof teutirlity,
ih' aFt by Whiich.e: hi hd restored equal were enabled to- act, as A.paftyetoestte
liberty to ;ll classes;of his Majesty's sub- treaty. It would ibe seenp: thon p'Oti
jets. there was nothing to preveo.t(heiresITnp*
MIr. Secretary, Peel said, he should tiop, bo the put of Russiau ofihebel ige-
postpone Ihe efew observations which he rent rights in the lMed-it.rranean S ea,
had to ofler on the principal subject of the when she should find it necessary to re-
Address, until he had noticed one or two sume them; but then thel, ol course, had
topics which had been adverted to in the a right, as neutrals, to withdraw' assoto
speech o"' his'right hon. friend the mem- as those belligerent rights should &be 're'-
ber 'or Literpool. His right hon. friend sumed. "Consent," theireIorE, as ined by
appeared to think, that there was an in- his Majesty, was a proper term, and by no
cb6sisten;y :between the Speech lately means necessarily implied that thdre had
delivered from the Throne, and that which been any formal negotiation. It was
had been addressed to the parliament at strictly a consent, and nothing more, to
the close of the last session. His right waive belligerent rights, by which they
hon. friend appeared: to think, that what were enabled to carry on the treaty of the
was 'said in the former respecting the 6thofJuly. The terms, therefore, of the
belligerent rights of Russia in the Medi- two Speeches were perfectly reconcileable.
terranean diflfred from the expressions With respect to Portugal,, his right hon
which had been used respecting the same friend had, with great propriety, abstained
rights in the latter. He thought, how- from pressing that topic for--the present,
ever, that if his right hon. friend would and he must be allowed to follow the good
look at the whole of the statement on this example. He would merely observe, that,
subject in the Speech of his Majesty at admitting the usurpation of the governm-
the close of the last session, he would ment of Portugal to have been most unjusti-
find that what had been said there was fiable, and the internal dissensions of that
quite re0oncileable with the expressions country to have been most unfortunate
lately used. The chief point upon which and distressing, yet that, unless his Ma-
his right hon. friend insisted,was the use of jesty's ministers had been prepared to
the word "consent." His right hon. friend take a part in those internal dissensions;
supposed that the word "consent" im- they had only one course open to'them.
plied that there had been some formal That that course had not only not been
negotiation with Russia, the result of 'neglected, but that it had been properly
which was, that she had waved rights pursued, he had no doubt that he should
which she had now resumed. The words be able, at a proper opportunity, to satisfy
of the Speech, at the close of the last the House. With respect to the observa-
session, were these: His Imperial tions which had been made upon him and
Majesty has consented to waive the upon the government on the subject of
exercise in the Mediterranean Sea, of any Ireland and the Catholic question, they
rights appertaining to his Imperial Ma- had by no means surprised him. He
jesty, in the character of a belligerent would, however, declare, once for all, that
power, and to recall the separate instruc- as faras he was concerned, the recommend-
tions which have been given to the Corn- ation of his right hon; friend the member
mander of his naval forces in that Sea, for Invernesshire, should beattended to,
directing hostile operations against the and all angry discussions, invectives, and
Ottoman Porte. His Majesty will there- recriminations be avoided. Now that
fore continue to combine his efforts with he had undertaken that most important,
those of the King of France and his most difficult, and to him, most painful
Imperial Majesty, for the purpose of task, he would devote his best exer-
carrying into complete execution their tions to carry it to a successful issue.
Treaty of London." Now the fact was, No reproaches from those hon. frietids
that tbey, being parties to the treaty of the of his with whom -he had so often acted,
6th of July, found that many difficulties and for whom he retained the most cor-
occurred to them, as neutrals,. from the dial respect-no opposition on the part
.eparati instructions of his Imperial Ma- o.if hose whom he had been in the habit of
Jesty, directing hostile operations against meeting as opponents-should betray him
the Porte. They stated that to. Russia: into the. expressions of angry feelings.
hbeiwj4idrew hex. sepaateinstrucLios, and Hle had .: -nderttkeei the task, and he


[ COMMON$~, ]






Add.r~isa on i/jr [Ftn. 6.] Ki~'~ Sp~.'


would'andeavour to brings it tto -such an
issue-as-should secure the safety of the
PrMtestant interests of the country, and
sqtis'y .he hopes andexpectations oI' every
reasonable Roman Catholic. He was not
surprised at -the feelings whl: h had been ex-
pressed by-his, right hon. friend,-the mem-
ber' for Liverpool. At the early part of
last year he had embarked with his right
hon. friend in a government, in which
the Catholic question was perfectly open,
each member of the government being at
liberty-to express what opinions he pleased
upon it. It was, perhaps, unwise in both
of them; but ,they thought that they
might continue in theservice of the Crown,
without abandoning the principle which
had been acted upon for so many years in
the- formation of administrations. The
House having declared in favour of con-
cessions-to the Roman Catholics, he said
nothing at the time; but he had found
that this principle could no longer be
maintained in the government, and he had
taken an early opportunity of stating, in
the proper quarter, that this was his im-
pression. It was the deliberate convic-
tion ofhis own mind, and in expressing it
he had stated, that he was ready to remove
any obstacle which might arise from his
remaining in office. He ought, perhaps,
to have seen this at the beginning of the
session, but new events forced the fact
upon him, and he took the first opportunity
of stating his conviction, and, as he had
before said, expressed his readiness to re-
move any obstacle which might arise from
his continuing.in the service of the Crown.
He went farther. In the present state of
the, country, more importance had been
attached to individual resignations than
would arise from such occurrences under
other circumstances, and in other times.
After full and deliberate consideration, he
expressed his readiness to relieve the go-
vernment from the obstacle which, it was
stated to him, would arise from his retire-
ment. He understood it had been sup-
posed that he had said, that in August
some me.aisurci connEited with the subject
of the Catholic question were under con-
sideration by the cabinet, and that he
communicated upon them with his noble
friend at the head .of the government.
This was a mistake. The communication
which he had made to. his noble friend
related to his&own individual views, and
was made to no other persoea fHis noble
friend had said in his speech, in the House
VOL. XX.


of Lords;ith'thd1 did no't devpair'of s'ein'
a satisiictory adjustment of the Catholia'
question.' He' had s.id to'his noble friend,
in reference to this. I think you aie riiht,
but my situation is veliy diffei'rnt from
yours, and I will retire." This was till ;
and he had made the communication to
no other individual bIit his noble fritndi
He had stated las: niglt,. that Ieiling tlht
his retirement would throw difficulties id
the course of the government, hie lad de-
termined to act upon that advice wuhIleh'
he had felt that it was hi; duty to give
to his Majesty. I- l ccill very well'
understand why he 'as reproached for
this discharge'of hat he conceived to be
his duty, by his hon. friends, who thought
his present conduct'in6onsistent with his
former views and declarations. He'did'
not blame them. He would only say,
that if they were in possession of' the in-
formation which he was in possession of
with respect to the state of society in Ire-
land, he firmly believed, that they would
come to the same conclusion with bimiself
namely, that the government (c:.ld no
longer remain neutral, leaving two parties
to fight out the battle between them, but,
was compelled at length to act, and that,
too, in such a manner as they believed'
most likely to'preserve the interests of the
Protestants, and to conduce to the welfare
of the country. If his hon. friend; were
in the possession of this inolbrniaion, he
believed they would see that no stable go-
vernment could be formed on the princi-
ple of eternal and uncompromising resis-
tance to the Catholic claims. Such, at.
least, was the conclusion to which he had''
arrived, and to such a conclusion hkele 'e
lived his hon. friends whonow reproached'
him, would have come also, if the samdi
information had reached them. The only'
course, then, which remained, was for a
responsible government carefully to' de-
liberate upon this subject; to decide as"
ministers of the Crown, what ought to be
done, without any negotiations with, oi
reference to the parties; and then to sub-
mit the result of their deliberations'to thd?
parliament, calling upon it to'sancti4ni.
that which, under all circumstances, wa-i,'
in their opinion, the best that cold be'
done. '
Mr. Huskisson assured his right h6nh''
friend, that in expressing regret that thiN
question had not been carried in the I lie-'
time of a lamented friend of his, he did'
not meao to convey the slightest repYoatli"
F


[FEi:,6. ]


. ddr6sa oA tlhe






i3g Roman a Cikoli Claims- [LORDS,] Petitions for dd ai t *ii. It
o him for ot, having sooner conformed to the Roman Catholics; arid one' rt
to ti~e conviction to which he had now the Catholics of Edinburgh, praying for
cpme, He sincerely believed that his Catholic emancipation.
ri~t hon. friend would be most service- The Earl of Eldon presentt6diei titen
abJeto the carrying of the great question, petitions against Catholic emancipation.
s, from his influence, he was admirably He said, that the petitioners all eixpigsid
calculated to conciliate jarring interests, their belie that the adniission of Ropian
ad, to win over opposition that might Catholics ~o political pov .r ca ontrni'
Come from other quarters. As an illus- to the principles of the conrtitlton, and
tration, le had referred to the mediatorial dangerous to the Protestant institutions
part % which his right hon. friend had borne of the country. He thought that noble
last session, in reconciling the country to lords, in presenting petitions, had better
the' repeal of the Test and Corporation confine themselves to a statement of the
acts; 4nd he expressed a hope, that he prayer of the petition, and not take up
might tender a similar service in the the time of the House with an exposition
framing 9f a measure of Catholic con- of their own opinions.
session, Lord Holland, on presenting a petition
Mr. Secretary Peel said, that in re- from certain Protestant Dissenters in
fearing to. the reproaches with which he South Shields, praying for a repeal of all
liad been visited on account of the change laws imposing political disabilities for
it'h bis opinions, he did not allude to his religious tenets, said he would conform as
iht hon. friend, but to the speeches of much as possible tothe adviceof the learned
ol.-r nember-i. The only part of the lord. The petitioners belonged briefly to
speech of his right hon. friend to which that enlightened body known by the name
he referred, as connected with his conduct, of Protestant Dissenters, in whose favour
*as that in which his right hon. friend their lordships had, last session, performed
appear~ to express an opinion, that the an act of tardy justice. All the petitions
principle of neutrality in the cabinet ought from that body breathed the same spirit
tp have been abandoned sooner than it had of gratitude for the benefits conferred' on
heeni. themselves, and of anxiety that those
Mr. Iuskisson repeated his assurance benefits might be extended to their fellow-
qo intending to convey no reproach of any subjects of all denominations. It must
4ipnd whatever on the conduct of his right be satisfactory to their lordships, who had
Bon. friend, done so much good for the petitioners, to
The Adress was then agreed to. hear that good gratefully acknowledged;
and it must be gratifying to the advocates of
H O O SE OF LORDS. the Dissenters to learn, that their clients did
Moday, February 9. not stop at the redress of their own
M ay, Febary 9. grievances, but were zealous in the en-
S.U_ Ait CATHOLIC CLIAMS-PETI- deavour to participate their own political
gIpNs FOi, AND AGAINST.] Numerous advantages with all classes of the com-
petitions were presented for and against munity. But, in praying for the exten-
further Concessions to the Roman Catho- sion of the blessings of civil and religious
lips. liberty to their fellow-subjects, he thought
The Earl of Winchilsea gave notice, he did not go too far in saying, that they
that.he would on Friday next, present the pointed particularly at their Roman Ca-
petition against the Catholic Claims, agreed tholic brethren, as fit objects for their
to at the late public meeting at Penenden lordships' liberality and justice. For him-
Heath1. He wished to know from the self, he was happy that measures which
noble duke at the head of the government, some five-and-twenty or thirty, years ago
Whien it was his intention to present a peti- he had recommended to parliament, were at
ti0.n, signed by ten thousand persons length about to be brought forward by.
against any fizrther Concession to the Ro- those whom he always considered to be
man atholics, from Bolton-le-Moor? the fittest instruments of their success.
The Duke of Wellington.-" I will pre- Since that time he had contended, year
set the petition now." The noble duke after year, in favour of the great prmci-
accordingl!. preientid a petition from ples of civil and religioits liberty; but the
Boltuo-le-Moor, une from Lanark, and one day had at length come,, when their lord-
from Hull, against any further concessions ships had consented to take the gteat






101 Couvt qf Chanaery.


port of the justice pf.the Catholic claims;
and a-l,/naenwould feel, that there wa's
mgresof idatger from refusing the Catho-
lics their righiis, than from yielding to the
pl~judi s which; hecould not deny, many
bhnet.:l npem t still entertained. At the
same time, he must take that opportunity
of expressing his gratification that, under
circumstances so d iffi-t Ilt as those in which
the dutke of \Wellingion was placed, he
should have been able to prepare and ma-
ture the minds of so many persons, so as
to induce them to comply with his views,
and to bring to this point a question of
such vast importance. He was unwilling
to check the grateful and joyfulfeelings
of the country at this measure, by any ani-
madversions or remarks of any description
on other parts of the Speech ; but he felt
it right to say, that he agreed in opinion
with his right hon. and learned friend, in
thinking, that there were some topics
which required investigation. With re-
gard to the statement which had been
made by the right hon. Secretary, he con-
sidered that, so far from deserving any
blame or reproach, for any part of his con-
duct, he was entitled to the support of
every honest man; on the simple ground,
that he had risked what he had done, for
the purpose of a great public object. Let
his reasons or his motives be what they
might-whether a sincere change of senti-
ment, or a concession to circumstances-
he had taken the opportunity of effecting
a great public good. He must have con-
quered many misgivings, and undergone
many taunts from his former friends: but
he found, at the present moment, after a
consideration of the difficulties of this
question, that balancing the advantages
against the disadvantages, the former
preponderated in favour of the line of
conduct he now adopted. There was no
computation on the right hon. gentleman
for the course he had pursued; on the
contrary, there could be nothing more ho-
nest, wise, and upright, than for a man in
the right hoen gentleman's responsible si-
tuation candidly confessing the difficulties
of the case, and consenting to support a
measure to which he had once strongly
objected. He hailed the intended mea-
sure as the harbinger of peace to the.two
kingdoms, which would make the union a
union of heart, and thereby fulfilling the
intentions of those who brought about that
measure. He hailed it as the means of
strengtheiiing the country u within and with-


out, in its domestic concerns and its fo-
reign relations. With regard to the noble
duke who had brought forward, a question
of that magnitude, he deserved the sup-
port, and he would meet with it, of every
candid and unprejudiced man. Never
had he anticipated such pleasing conse-
quences as he expected from this measure
and when the duke of Wellington brought
it forward, he should have in him, haow.
ever feeble an advocate he might be, at least
one sincere and honest defender.
The Address was then agreed to.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
Friday, February 6.
MINUTES.] Mr. W. WHITMORB gave notice, that he
would, on the 10th of March, move for Select Com-
mittee, to inquire into the State of the Trade between
Great Britain, the East Indies, and China.-Mr. LfrtLnB
TOM gave notice, that he would, on the 17th of Febnrary,
move Resolutions to abolish Fees and Charget on rep;gw
of Turnpike Bills.-Mr. Secretary Psas gave notice,
that, on Tuesday, he would move for leave to bring'il a
Bill, for the Suppression of Dangerous Associations lt
Ireland. -Mr. VILLERS STBWART gave hotjC@, thpt hi
would, on the 7th of May, bring forward a motion on
the State of the Irish Poor, with a view to their relief
from Parochial Assessment.

COURT OF CHANCERY.] Mr. M. A.
Taylor begged leave to ask his right hon.
friend opposite, a question relative to the
Court of Chancery. He had given notice
of a motion on that subject; but his
course would depend on the answer he
received. He wished to know whether
there was any measure in -contemplation
to expedite the business of that court,
according to the view held out, in 1827,
by the lord Chancellor ?
Mr. Secretary Peel stated, in answer
to his hon. friend, that he was aware the
lord Chancellor was strongly impressed
with the necessity of some arrangement,
to facilitate the business of the court of
Chancery; He also knew that it was the
learned lord's intention to submit some
proposition to that branch of the legisla-
ture to which he belonged.
Mr.. M. A. Taylor was satisfied with
what his right hon, friend had said, and
should simply, move for the returns, with-
out opening any discussion.
Mr. Brougham hoped that the noble
lord would bring forward his bill as
speedily as, possible, for it was desirable
for many considerations, amongst which
a most urgent one was the expediency.of
fixing the-period of the.Easter term. This
,year, the day of tlhe month ep which
E2


Court of Chqncery. 102


.[F, 6.)





13 ?maa Calhc [CFlaiins- [Fz. 9.3 Petition for and against. ~34


question of Catholik emancipation into
their seriqu opsinderation. He was sure
that the intelligence would be a source of
the greatest satis faction toevery enlightened
mind in the empire, as the measure itself
would. b a source of tranquillity and pros-
perity to the empire.
The Earl of Eldon said, he by no means
denied the right of every noble lord to
state what opinions he pleased, on pre-
senting a petition. What he meant was,
that he thought it would be a desirable
course of proceeding if noble lords con-
fined themselves to an ,exposition of the
prayer of the petitions they were present-
ing ; or, at all events, made the leading
sentiments of the petition the heads as it
were of their speeches. With respect to
what had fallen from the noble baron re-
garding the toleration principles of the
Dissenters, he begged leave to remind
their lordships, that he had last session,
though with a different purpose, main-
tained similar opinions. He had then
foreseen the consequences to the religious
and civil establishments of the country,
that would arise from admitting the Pro-
testant Dissenters to a full participation of
the blessings of the constitution. He had
then predicted, that the moment the Dis-
senters got themselves in, they would en-
deavour to bring in the Catholics; but
many of their lordships said, not at all.
Even spiritual lords maintained the thing
to be impossible. Did they think so now?
At that time, the Dissenters advertised in
,the public journals, that they would not
join with the Catholics, but would limit
their exertions to a repeal of the Test and
Corporation acts. Nevertheless, they did
not dissolve their committee, until they had
passed a resolution for a repeal of all laws
imposing disabilities for religious opinions;
and in that spirit they were now applying
to the legislature in favour of the Roman
Catholics. All this was as he had fore-
seen and foretold. He had then stated
it decidedly as his opinion, that it was the
solemn duty of the government to sup-
port the best system of Christianity; and
that the best mode of ensuring the best
system was by connecting the religious
establishment with the state, and making
the integrity of one a part of the integrity
of the other. To the rendering of that in-
tegrity unirksom e, care should be taken that
there should be no drawback from an en-
lightened and'enlarged toleration of the
opinions of others; at the same time, in


preserving that integrity, care should be
taken, that no fatal innovations shodid bq
made in the fundamental lawS of tha
constitution. These were his early, hii
matured, and his unchangeable opinions.
Lord Holland assured the learned lord,
that the Protestant Dissenters never had
held but one opinion, and one line of cdini
duct. He thought it due to them to state,
that their wide advocacy of the great princi-
ples of civil and religious liberty was per-
fectly consistent with their conduct aiid
opinions, before and since the repeal of
the Test and Corporations acts.
The Bishop of Bath and Wells, on ptre.
senting similar petitions from several
parishes in Somersetshire, observed that
other petitions equally hostile to Catholic
emancipation, would be presented from
almost every parish in his diocess. After
the maturest investigation, his dow opi-
nions remained unchanged; it was his
honest conviction, that it was not pos-
sible to give further political power to the
Roman Catholics, without endarigerhig
the Protestant institutions of the country.
He hoped that ministers would pay eqtal
attention to the petitions of the Protestants
of England, with that which they had
paid to the petitions of the Catholics of
Ireland, the rather, as the former were
couched in the language of humility and
supplication, free from imperious dictation.
The Bishop of Durham said, he would
take advantage of the occasion of presenting
a similar petition from a parish in Durham,
to state that his opinions as to the policy
of opposing the admission of the Roman
Catholics to a full share of the benefits of
the constitution were unchanged; and
that he was convinced, after the maturest
deliberation, that the Catholic Religion,
by its very nature, precluded its professors
from affording a satisfactory security in a
Protestant state. He was anxious to give
this public expression of his deliberate
opinions, as it had been insidiously ru-
.moured, that he had become an advocate
of concession.
The Duke of Richmond presented a
similar petition from Sussex. Notwith-
standing the marvellous events of the last
week, his opinions-perhaps they should
now be called prejudices-against Citho-
lic emancipation, were and wouldd con-
tinue unaltered.
The Duke of Newcastle said, he had a
similar petition to preleit from Nottibg-
ham. Before he did so, he wished to
F2






135 Roman Catholic Claims- [ COMMONS, Petitions fo~ and against. 136


'Iake a few observations' upon a declara-
tion madedby the noble duke at the head
of the government a few nights since,
with reference to the feeling of the people
of England in relation to the .Catholic
laims. 'The noble duke then stated in
,ljs place,, that the majority of the people of
this country were favourable to a repeal
.of the penal laws against the Roman Ca-
th-lics :ithat is, were in favour of the con-
tenrplated measure of the noble duke.
Now;, after minute inquiry, he had arrived
at the opposite opinion, and was convinced
that; the people of England were not only
decidedly hostile to Catholic emancipation,
but decidedly favourable to Protestant
ascendancy. The noble duke here paused
for afew-moments. After a few ineffectual
attempts to recollect himself, he said that
-what,he had intended to say had vanished
from. his memory, but that he would
take another opportunity of submitting his
Opinion to their lordships.
Lord Holiand did not think the noble
duke had. any right to assume, that any
*petition which he presented from cer-
tain parishes, expressed the opinion of the
people,of England. He was old enough
to. remember when any person who ven-
tured to imply that there was a difference
of opinion between the people and the
House of Commons would have been con-
sidered euili of something very little short
of treason. Now, he had never concurred
in this doctrine, and God forbid, with the
*principles which he had ever held, that he
should; but, when they were told that
a petition from this parish or that village
represented the sense of the people of
England, he was inclined to.reply, in the
language of Wilkes, who, when he was
told that the sense of the country was
against him on some question, replied,
1' Do you take the sense and I'll take the
nonsense, and I have no doubt I shall
beat you." A petition coming from any
'particular .parish or village presuming to
state that the opinions expressed in it
were those of the people of England, was
'very irregular. It was quite right that the
petitioners should approach parliament
with a temperate expression of their own
opinions, but absurd for them to arrogate
-to themselves the privilege of represent-
ing to the legislature the opinions of their
fellow-subjects upon this or any other
question..
The Duke of Newcastle, said, he was
'not aware that the petition assumed, to,


express the sense of the people of .Eng-
land. What he meant -to state.was, .that
it was in .accordance with the sentiments
of the people of, England; and he.bhd no
doubt, if sufficient time was allowed, that
the sense of the people of England would
be expressed in such a manner as to leave
no doubt as to the public feeling, with re-
spect to the proposed concessions tq the
Catholics.
SLord Holland said, that if .the noble
duke would stick to prophecy he might be
quite right. The peopleof England might
express their opinion in the. way. which
the noble duke anticipated; but, to say
that a petition from any particular parish
expressed the sense of the people of Eng-
land, was unparliamentary and extremely
unusual.
Lord Bexley, in presenting a similar
petition from Harwich, observed, .that-he
could not present this petition from his
old constituents without stating that he
still adhered to his opinions on the subject
of the Catholic claims. The atmosphere
of conversion had not yet reached him.,
Viscount Lorton said, 'he had beei
called upon to present a petitionfromthe
bishop and clergy of the diocese ipf
Killala, &c. praying that no further conr
cessions might be granted to the Catholics.,
This was one of the first petitions that had
been brought under their lordships' con-
sideration at the commencement of this
eventful session, and, as it was in defence
of the church and state, which must rise
or fall together, he sincerely hoped it
would be followed up by every diocese:in
the' United Kingdom; and thus it would
be manifest, that our bishops, and clergy
were, in a constitutional manner,, the
zealous, efficient, and uncompromising
guardians of the true Catholic church.

PORTUGAL.] Lord Holland rose for
the purpose of putting a question tL the
noble earl at the head of the Foreign De.-
partment, respecting our rlatliou. nith
Portugal. He was so unfortunate as not
very clearly to comprehend what fell.from
the noble earl, on this subject, on a.former
occasion. He had understood the noale
earl, however, on the first night of the pre-
sent session when adverting to this subject,
to say, that he should be glad, when aag
opportunity occurred, ,to enter into aAfulb
explanation of the conduct of rpinjsters1
with regardto our relation with Portugal.
He supposed the noble earl was h iajel







Porf~l.EI~. .]Porti~gacl .1.2,8


most anxious to briugiforward this subject,
with' view of 'Hlieving the members of
his majesty's government from the charges
brought against them, with respect to the
liii'of policy adopted by this country to-
wards Portugal. He did not know whe-
ther the anxiety of the noble earl was to
meet the charge of abetting or conniving
at the usurpation of Don Miguel, or the
other charge of commencing hostilities
against the innocent subjects of the young
queen, Donna Maria da Gloria. No man
could state that such a course of proceed-
ing did not require explanation. Their
lordships had heard two successive
Speeches from the throne holding out
hopes that the mediation of his inajesty
would lead to an amicable arrangement
of the internal affairs of Portugal. They
were now told, however, that, as regarded
one party, our diplomatic efforts were not
only unsuccessful, but that all diplomatic
intercourse had been entirely suspended ;
and we had, apparently at least, com-
menced hostilities against the other party.
He said apparently," for no official an-
nouncement had yet been made to that
effect. He made these observations in no
hostile spirit towards his majesty's minis-
ters ; but the subject called for explana-
tion, and, in his opinion, it would be unbe-
coming in parliament not to evince some
anxiety on a subject so closely connected
with the interests of our oldest ally. He
hoped that the noble earl would shortly
be able to lay full information before the
House, in explanation of the course adopt-
ed by government in relation to Portugal ;
and that this information would be such
as would enable him and other noble lords,
to come to a'favourable opinion on the
line of policy which had been pursued,
and the negotiations in which we had
been engaged. In conclusion, he begged
to ask the noble Secretary whether it was
his'intention shortly to lay before the
House any papers connected with the re-
lations between this country and Portugal ?
The Earl of Aberdeen said, it was not
the intention of government to lay any
papers before parliament at the present
moment respecting the affai s of Portugal,
or the relations between th thwo countries.
His tMajesty had 'already informed' the'
ItHuse, that he wa then cnga'ed in negotia-
tions witl the head of the House of Bra-
gan24a, il'tt h6p eof"terminatlng the un-
tbrtunate di scbids of"Porttigata at'd 'utL
ting ap end to a state of affairs incompatible


with its prosperity. That being the cae,
noble lords must perceive that it was alt-
terly impossible, during the continuance
of that negotiation for his majesty's minis-
ters to lay upon the table of the House
papers, in explanation of the precise state
of it. The course of his majesty's govern-
ment was clear and distinct: upon that
point they had no alternative.' If, haw-
ever, the noble lord thought proper to
move for papers calculated, in his opinion,
to throw light upon the subject, he should
be ready to produce them, if it could be
done without injury to the public service.
With respect to the other event adverted
to by the noble lord, government had
received no official information to enable
them to satisfy the inquiries made upon
the subject. No doubt the fact" as re-
ported had occurred ; but under what cir-
cumstances government as yet was wholly
without information. At the same time
it was fair to admit, that the instructions
under which the officer in question must
have acted, contemplated the possibility
of such an attempt being made by the
Portuguese, and provided for its frustra-
tion; and he was fully prepared, if the
occurrence had taken place as stated,
to prove that no charge of blame could
attach to his majesty's government, in
consequence of what had happened. So
far, indeed, from that being the case, he
was most ready and desirous to -explain
and justify any share which government
might have had in producing the event.
It would appear, at the proper period, that
not only was his majesty's government
fully justified in the line of conduct it had
adopted on this occasion, but that there
was no other course left it to pursue; ind
that that course was not only just. and
proper, but necessary and indispensable.
Lord Holland said he was not satis-
fied with the reasons adduced by the
noble earl for refraining from bringing for-
ward the information desired. The noble
earl had told him, that he was at liberty
to move for information on the subject;
and that it would be granted, if nrot in-r
consistent with the public service. During
the last session he had been told,"'with
great plausibility, if not with great reason,
that it would' not be fair for hirn'to se-,
lect any particular paper,: arid 'ca"0l' fr it "
production, but that he was bound to wait
until his maje-ty's miisites 'laid some in.
formation before parliament. 'He w ,Vdgi6v
informed, however, that they did not in,


r FEB. 9.,]







L ~9. .&Settlemnast of, the


tvend to lay any information before parlia-
mient on this important question. Under
auch circumstances, in ordinary cases, he
should be inclined to name a day for a
motion on the subject; but he still hoped
that parliament would institute an inquiry.
For his own part, he would not at pre-
hent give any notice, for several reasons.
One reason was, that he hoped the task
would devolve on a noble friend more
competent to do justice to it than he
was; and another reason was, that just
now, when men's minds were so entirely
absorbed in another important question,
he did not wish to put himself into any
thing which might appear like an attitude
of hostility to a government engaged in
a work which would conduce more to
the welfare and happiness of the people
of this country than any which had been
effected for many years. Feeling, how-
ever, as an Englishman, and as one who
took a deep interest in the affairs of
Portugal, he could not hear of the heart-
repding occurrence which had taken place
at the island of Terceira, without ear-
nestly calling on parliament to institute
an immediate inquiry into the transaction.


HOUSE OF COMMONS.
Monday, February 9.
MD~ITES.] Mr. HOBHOVus presented a petition ftom the
Inhabitwt-Householders of St. Jpmes, Westminster, com-
plaiting of ,he misappropriation of the parochial funds by
Sthe Select Vestry. He said it was his intention, in the
course of the Session, to bring in a bill for the Regulation
of Parish Vestries.-On the motion of Mr. Leake, it was
ordered, that the petitioners against the return of Daniel
O'Connell, esq. for the county of Clare, be at liberty to
question the said Election and Return by the renewal of
their Petition (which was depending before the House at
the end of the last session, within the next three sitting
days.

CONVENTION FOR THE SETTLEMENT
6I THE CLAIMS ON SPAIN.] The Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer presented by com-
mnand of his Majesty, the following
CoNVETrION between his MAJESTY and the
CATHoaoic KING, for the Final Settlement
of the Claims of British and Spanish sub-
jects, under the Convention concluded at
Madrid, March 12, 1823.
His Majesty the Kingofthe-United Kingdom
Sof Great Britain and Ireland, and his Majesty
the King of Spain and the Indies, being equally
convinced of the great and almost insuperable
8flfficulties that have presented themselves in
carrying into effect, by means of the mixed
commission appointed under the Convention


concluded on' the l1th of MArh, 183,, the
stipulations of the said CQnyentisp.,reQpapg
the claims preferred by subjects of both rot ionq,
-have considered that the nriol peedi and
efficacious manner of otralning the objet.c
which their Britannic and Catholiq Majesties
proposed to themselves in framing the Conven-
tion above-mentioned would be that of a com-
promise, or amicable adjustment, in which
their said Majesties, by common consent
should assign fixed and proportionate sums for
the indemnification of the claimants of both
countries, so that each of the two high contract-
ing parties should possess the power of adjudg-
ing and satisfying the legitimate claims of its
own subjects, out of the sums which each
government shouldrfor such purpose, receive
from the other, or of distributing those sums
among the individuals interested, by means of
an arrangement mutually agreed upon.
With this view their Britannic and Catholic
Majesties have nominated and appointed as
their respective plenipotentiaries, namely:-
His Majesty the King of the United Kingdom
of Great Britain and Ireland, the right honour-
able George earl of Aberdeen, viscount Gor-
don, viscount Formartine, lord Haddo, Meth-
lick, Tarvis, and Kellie, a peer of the. aid
United Kingdom, a member of his Majesty's
most honourable Privy Council, knight of the
most ancient and most noble order of the
Thistle, and his said Majesty's principal
Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs; and his
Majesty the King of Spain and the Indies, his
excellency don Narciso de Heredia, count of
Ofalia, actual knight of the royal Spanish order
of Charles 3rd, knight grand cross of the Ame-
rican order of Isabel the Catholic, and of the
legion of honour of France, councillor of state,
and his said Majesty's envoy extraordinary and
minister plenipotentiary on a special mission
to the court of his Britannia Majesty; who,
after having communicated to each other their
respective full powers, found to be in due and
proper form, have agreed upon and concluded
the following articles:-
Art. I.-His Catholic Majesty engages to
make good to his Britannic Majesty the sum
of 900,0001. sterling, in specie, as the amount
of the whole of the English claims presented
to and registered by the mixed commicison,
established by the Convention of the 12th of
March, 1823.
Art. II.-His Britannic Majesty engages to
make good, in the same manner, the sum of
200,0001. sterling, as the amount of the whole
of the Spanish claims, presented to and regis
tered by the mixed commission, in pursuance
of the said Convention.
Art. III.-It shall be lawful for eitheriQf the
high contracting parties to cause to be adjudged
within its respective territory the claims of its
own subjects, in order to satisfy, within twelve
F months from the date of the exchange of the
ratifications. of the present Corvention, such
claims as shall appear.to be just a s4 legiiBaate,
out of the sums which one of the high contract.


Claims dna Spain.


COMMONS, I






i3g Roman a Cikoli Claims- [LORDS,] Petitions for dd ai t *ii. It
o him for ot, having sooner conformed to the Roman Catholics; arid one' rt
to ti~e conviction to which he had now the Catholics of Edinburgh, praying for
cpme, He sincerely believed that his Catholic emancipation.
ri~t hon. friend would be most service- The Earl of Eldon presentt6diei titen
abJeto the carrying of the great question, petitions against Catholic emancipation.
s, from his influence, he was admirably He said, that the petitioners all eixpigsid
calculated to conciliate jarring interests, their belie that the adniission of Ropian
ad, to win over opposition that might Catholics ~o political pov .r ca ontrni'
Come from other quarters. As an illus- to the principles of the conrtitlton, and
tration, le had referred to the mediatorial dangerous to the Protestant institutions
part % which his right hon. friend had borne of the country. He thought that noble
last session, in reconciling the country to lords, in presenting petitions, had better
the' repeal of the Test and Corporation confine themselves to a statement of the
acts; 4nd he expressed a hope, that he prayer of the petition, and not take up
might tender a similar service in the the time of the House with an exposition
framing 9f a measure of Catholic con- of their own opinions.
session, Lord Holland, on presenting a petition
Mr. Secretary Peel said, that in re- from certain Protestant Dissenters in
fearing to. the reproaches with which he South Shields, praying for a repeal of all
liad been visited on account of the change laws imposing political disabilities for
it'h bis opinions, he did not allude to his religious tenets, said he would conform as
iht hon. friend, but to the speeches of much as possible tothe adviceof the learned
ol.-r nember-i. The only part of the lord. The petitioners belonged briefly to
speech of his right hon. friend to which that enlightened body known by the name
he referred, as connected with his conduct, of Protestant Dissenters, in whose favour
*as that in which his right hon. friend their lordships had, last session, performed
appear~ to express an opinion, that the an act of tardy justice. All the petitions
principle of neutrality in the cabinet ought from that body breathed the same spirit
tp have been abandoned sooner than it had of gratitude for the benefits conferred' on
heeni. themselves, and of anxiety that those
Mr. Iuskisson repeated his assurance benefits might be extended to their fellow-
qo intending to convey no reproach of any subjects of all denominations. It must
4ipnd whatever on the conduct of his right be satisfactory to their lordships, who had
Bon. friend, done so much good for the petitioners, to
The Adress was then agreed to. hear that good gratefully acknowledged;
and it must be gratifying to the advocates of
H O O SE OF LORDS. the Dissenters to learn, that their clients did
Moday, February 9. not stop at the redress of their own
M ay, Febary 9. grievances, but were zealous in the en-
S.U_ Ait CATHOLIC CLIAMS-PETI- deavour to participate their own political
gIpNs FOi, AND AGAINST.] Numerous advantages with all classes of the com-
petitions were presented for and against munity. But, in praying for the exten-
further Concessions to the Roman Catho- sion of the blessings of civil and religious
lips. liberty to their fellow-subjects, he thought
The Earl of Winchilsea gave notice, he did not go too far in saying, that they
that.he would on Friday next, present the pointed particularly at their Roman Ca-
petition against the Catholic Claims, agreed tholic brethren, as fit objects for their
to at the late public meeting at Penenden lordships' liberality and justice. For him-
Heath1. He wished to know from the self, he was happy that measures which
noble duke at the head of the government, some five-and-twenty or thirty, years ago
Whien it was his intention to present a peti- he had recommended to parliament, were at
ti0.n, signed by ten thousand persons length about to be brought forward by.
against any fizrther Concession to the Ro- those whom he always considered to be
man atholics, from Bolton-le-Moor? the fittest instruments of their success.
The Duke of Wellington.-" I will pre- Since that time he had contended, year
set the petition now." The noble duke after year, in favour of the great prmci-
accordingl!. preientid a petition from ples of civil and religioits liberty; but the
Boltuo-le-Moor, une from Lanark, and one day had at length come,, when their lord-
from Hull, against any further concessions ships had consented to take the gteat






Claims on Spain. 142


ing parties shall receive, for this purpose, from
thb other; or it shall be'lawful for the govern-
ment of either of the said high contracting
pat tie t' agree with the persons interested, or
the;r asiigns, up.n any other mode of arrange-
ment which may be deemed most expedient
for satiqing them within the same term, with-
dioti he necessity of any previous and formal
adjudication.
Art. IV.-The government of his Britannic
Majesty shall retain in its possession the sum
of 200,0001. sterling, which, by the second
article, is to be made good to Spain, in order
to set that sum against, or deduct it from, the
900,001. sterling which it is to receive from
the same; but it is expressly declared that this
compensation is stipulated on the understand-
ing that his Catholic Majesty, within the period
specified in the preceding article, shall pay to
his own subjects the amount of their legitimate
claims against England, preferred under the
Convention of the 12th of March, 1823, in
specie, or in other effective value; and in such
a manner that his Britannic Majesty may be
exempted from every responsibility for the
amount of such claims.
Art. V.-His Catholic Majesty shall effectu-
ate the payment of the 900,0001. sterling, in
satisfaction of the English claims, by instal-
ments, in the following order:-
Two hundred thousand pounds sterling shall
be delivered over on the day on which the ex-
change of the ratifications of the present Con-
vention shall take place; and another like sum
at the expiration of three months from the
exchange alluded to.
Thecompensation mentionedin the preceding
article shall be considered as the payment of
200,0001. sterling more; and the remaining
300,0001. sterling shall be made good by two
instalmentss, at the rate of 150,0001. sterling;
the one at six months, and the other at nine
months, from the date of the exchange of the
ratifications.
Art. VI.-The two last instalments of
150,0001. each his lIajesty reserves to himself
the power either of paying up in specie, at the
time of that sum falling due, or of effectuating
the payment by certificates of inscriptions in
the English and Spanish language, expressing
the'purpose for which they are issued, bearing
interest at five per cent per annum, payable
half-yearly in London, at fifty per cent discount.
For this purpose, his Catholic Majesty shall,
within three months from the date of the
ratifications of this Convention, cause the sum
of 60,0,0,000 of reals of vellon, in such inscrip-
tions (being equal, lat 100 reals to the pound
sterhine, to the sum of 600,0001. sterling), to be
lodged in the Baik of England, or with the
'banker of the court of Spain in London, with
instructions to deliver one-half of them to the
government of his Britannic Majesty, for the
use of the claimants, on the day of each of the
said instalments falling due, provided they shall
not be punctually paid in sterling money.
It is likewise hereby agreed thatthe govern-


ment of his Catholic 1lajesty shall have tle
power of redeeming the inscriptions ;4hu.
created, during the four year- succeeding, and
upon giving six months notice, at the rate of
551. for every 1001. so delive'did.:" Aftir such
peripd of four years, the Spanish government
shall only possess the power of iedeenaing the
inscriptions referred to at the rate: f 01. fir
every 1001.
Art. VII.-His Catholic Majesty shall be at
liberty to effect the payment of the second
installment of 200,0001. sterling n euiioned in
article V., by delivering, on its beine due,
50,0001. in ready money, and 150,0001. in
inscriptions at fifty per cent., making 300,0001.
in inscriptions; but this arrangement is onlyto
take place on the express condition that the
payment of one of the two last installments of
150,0001. sterling, mentioned in article VI.,
shall be made in ready money.
Art. VIII.-The inscriptions to be delivered
by the government of his Catholic :Majesty
shall be, in all essential points, according to
the form which is annexed to ihie present Con-
vention.
Art. IX.-As soon as the said su1 of
900,0001. sterling shall have been paid, all the
bills of exchange, libranzas, and other Jdocu-
ments, forming and constituting the ialue
represented by the aggregate of the English
claims against Spain, shall be given up to the
government of his Catholic Majesty.
Art. X.-There shall be given up also, on
the part of the government of his said Catholic
Majesty, at the period specified in the pre-
ceding article, all the documents relative to the
Spanish claims against England.
Art. XI.-To prevent any of those claims
which shall be satisfied by the present Conven-
tion from again being produced under any
other form or pretence, it is hereby agreed
that the mixed commission appointed under
the aforesaid Convention of the 12th of March,
1823, shall, prior to the cessation of the exer-
cise of its functions, add to the lists already
formed of the English and Spanish claims,
presented to and registered by the same such
notes or remarks, relating to the documents in
support of those claims, as may be deemed
necessary, in order that the said lists and notes,
after being given up to both governments in an
authentic form, may serve them as a security,
till the delivery of the original documents
shall take place.
Art. XII.-The aforesaid Convention of the
12th of March, 1823, and the several articles
and things therein contained, except so far as
the same are altered by the present Conven-
tion, are hereby declared to be, and shall
remain, in force.
Art. XIII.-The present Convention shall
be ratified, and the ratificatiors slall be ex-
changed in forty days from the date hereof, or
sooner if possible.
In witness whereof, the respective plenipo.
tentiaries have signed the sai~ ?a44,havw
affied thereto tb~ seals of their arpgu, ,.
MOO"HI


11 Settlement of the


F FB. 9.






.. Poity[al' -- -: COMMONS,] RomtftCatholic Claiis, M


lo?6hafa'iomifba nthe 2?rtb day oft-October,
izthAffnar.Aferl ord, 1l28.

dr^, (j.S. 3E .L CONDE PD OFALIA.

PopTariGoAl] SirJames Mackintosh said,
that, before he.gave the notice with which
bhI: intended to conclude, he wished to
offer adfew words explanatory of the rea-
sons which had induced him to deviate,
ifsoine degree from the course which he
Iad intimated his determination to adopt
onfthe.fitst' day of the session. He had
observed, in reference to certain portions
ofihisiMajesty's Speech which adverted to
our foreign relations, that, under existing
circumstances he should forbear to put
any. questions to his majesty's ministers on
these matters., It was his intention to
await,a, convenient opportunity for putting
those questionU He felt that, for the
present, his majesty's government were
abundantly occupied with the great and
healingmeasure which they had so wisely
brdughatunder, the consideration of the
HbOuse, and he was unwilling to divert
theinattention, or that of the House, from
the:diseussion of the all-important question
to!which, he alluded, by the introduction
of other matters, which, however in them-
selves important, could not be compared
to the momentous measure which was now
4ippily, about being carried into effect.
He was further disposed not to introduce
other topics upon which differences of
opinion:imight arise, ;until his majesty's
ministers had, carried through parliament
the .bill for emancipating the Catholics,
which they had pledged themselves to
bring forward, and which would, in his
opinion, be a greater boon than any that
had been conferred since the glorious mea-
sur.e of the Bill of Rights. But occur-
rences which, had taken place at the
Azores, and other occurrences, the ac-
counts of which had not at the time been
published,,induced him to adopt a different
course.- He had been anxious, in the first
instance, to suffer a longer period to elapse,
with .a view not to embarrass his majesty's
ministers, or to disturb the discussion of
the great measure which they had pledged
themselves to introduce. He now, how-
evar, hoped, :that in the little interval of
tranquility between the conclusion of the
diapssions on the bill for the suppression
of the Cathoalic Association towhich bill
it Imasiothislintention to' give any oppo-
aiton,anleis. e were driven to do ao on


constitutional.ground-adand the iutrodad4
tion of the Bill of emicipatt kobe;sikt-
have an opportunity of bringing ifefor
the House questions which axelted;-to-tdh
interests of justicelandw; humanity, aa
which were entitled to the'serious-attew-
tion of parliament. He would, now give
notice, that it was his intention, on the
19th instant, to move for. Copies or
Extracts of Communications- concerning
the Relations which subsisted between this
Country and her most faithful Majesty,
Donna Maria 2nd, Queen of Portugal
and Algarve."

ROMAN CATHOLIC CLAIMS,- PETI-
TIONS FOR AND AGAINST.] The Marquis
of Chandos presented a Petition against
Emancipation, from the Parish of Hemel
Hempstead.
Sir J. Sebright said, that the signatures
to the petition were certainly highly re-
spectable, but that the petitioners were
right in not intrusting it to him, ashe could
not omit the opportunity of stating, that
during his whole life, he had never heard
a single convincing argument against the
spirit which now actuated the councils:of
his majesty's ministers. He had never
heard a single argument against toleration,
and particularly toleration towards their
SCatholic fellow-countrymen, which carried
conviction to his mind.
Sir J. Mackintosh said, it was by no
means his wish or intention to disparage
this petition, and others of a similar-kind.
In the present prosperous state -of the
Catholic question, itiwould be in the
highest degree unbecoming to apply hasty
or indignant language to the conscientious
opponents of that great measure, He
could not, however, avoid remarking, that
the petitions at present before the House
had been adopted before the promulgation
of his Majesty's gracious Speech,.and that
had the change, which had taken plade
in the views of government, been known
to the petitioners it was highly probable
that they would have adopted.quite differ-
ent petitions. Had these petitioners been
previously made acquainted with, the de"
claration of ministers, that this measure of
emancipation was absolutely necessary foKr
the safety and tranquillity of the State, and
that it would be accompanied, by satisfac-
tory securitiesfor the maintenance of the
'Protestant institutions of the country,- it
was highly probable they would nevernhave
sent forward',ach petitions to the'House,






14 Romaz Oatholic' Claims- [ Fi. .'}Q Petitions for and dgninst. W4_


He -reg-'etted tol:olbgerve,. that a titiniQtMad' bten 'adopted at' one of the
seasoif peie~ceand literature. It appeared
th~rtethd Unitersity;of Oxford was assem-
lied to, petition against emancipation on
the very morning of the day on which
ministers had, declared their opinion, that
this measure of emancipation was neces-
sary for the public safety. It remained
to be'seen what that learned body would
now do.' He entertained for it the high-
est respect, and trusted most sincerely,
when they came to consider the propriety
of accepting that resignation which the
overstrained delicacy of the right hon.
gentleman (Mr. Peel) had induced him
to tender, that they would see the wisdom
of continuing the right hon. gentleman's
valuable services, and would by that de-
termination, as it were, virtually withdraw
the opposition to the Catholic claims,
which they had been so unwarily induced
to give to it.
IMr. Trant said, he was surprised to
hear the language which had been used
by the-right hon. gentleman who had last
spoken. He had spoken of the King's
Speech as if it were a command that could
not be disobeyed; and seemed to take it
for granted, that the, Protestants were,
until its promulgation, totally ignorant of
the change which had occurred in the
sentiments of his majesty's government.
They were certainly not unprepared for it.
A: masked battery had been previously
opened by the great Captain, which had
somewhat discomfitted them; and his right
hon. friend, the member for Derry, in a
speech there some months ago, had let
the cat out of the bag, and they now saw
the whole of her body. It was not easy to
understand how such remarkable changes
could have been effected in the opinions
of government, and he could not avoid
supposing: that Wesley, the head of the
Methodists, an ancestor, he believed, of the
noble duke, might have had something to
do with it. Be the change, however, pro-
duced by whomsoever, or in whatever man-
nerit might, the Protestants were staunch to
their own cause. :The tables of the House
would be covered with petitions against
the measure. Nothing short of an aber-
ration-of intellect could hav$ induced his
hon. friends opposite (would to God he
could still call them his friends !) to come
down to the House ;and thus suddenly
exclaim i" Ohi! this can't be helped-what'
the Catholics ask must be done."


Sir Jbhn BryEges complained ioudlyTof
the conduct of the government, and de-
clared it was a new thing to hear thla it
became the duty of member' to yield
implicit obedience to the recommendation
of the Throne, without consulting the
feeling of the people-that, was% a new
doctrine to which he would never submit,
and against which the people should raise
their voice. I ;
Mr. H. Maxwell said, he had no'doubt
on his mind, that both in Ireland' and
England meetings would be held and'pe-
titions adopted against this measure.
Sure he was that no change: in' the
opinions of the government would induce
the petitioners tochange theirs. Hewould
state advisedly, that such a manifestation
of Protestant feeling would be made in
both countries as to astonish the govern-
ment. He could not help expressing his
surprise, that the right hon. gentleman
(Mr. Peel) should have changed h;i prin-
ciples, and still consent to remaining office;
The country had lost its confidence in: the
government, and he participated in the
withdrawal of that confidence. As an
humble individual, but as the representa-
tive of a large Protestant county, he
would declare that his sentiments re-
mained unaltered, and that he Was
determined to stand by that constitu-
tion, which was essentially, exclusively,
and fundamentally Protestant. '
Mr. Jonathan Peel said, it was with
feelings of great pain that he differed on
this question from those with whom he
was in the habit of acting in public life, as
well as with those to whom he was at-
tached by the nearest and tenderest ties in
private. He could not, however remain,
silent at this moment, lest that silence
should be construed into an abandonment
of the principles he had hitherto main-
tained. His opinions remained unchanged,
and he could not avoid deploring the
course which the government were about
to adopt. Had they done before this
what they were about to do now-had the
laws been put in force, and the Catholic
Association suppressed-the government
would not have been driven to the misera,-
ble alternative of seeking to remedy press-
ing evils at the risk of injuring the
greatest dangers. If men's minds were
so divided in Ireland as they were: reprepr
sented to be, was it at all probable thdit
concord and -harmony would arise from i~
measure of securities, insufficient to:'thy







L ~9. .&Settlemnast of, the


tvend to lay any information before parlia-
mient on this important question. Under
auch circumstances, in ordinary cases, he
should be inclined to name a day for a
motion on the subject; but he still hoped
that parliament would institute an inquiry.
For his own part, he would not at pre-
hent give any notice, for several reasons.
One reason was, that he hoped the task
would devolve on a noble friend more
competent to do justice to it than he
was; and another reason was, that just
now, when men's minds were so entirely
absorbed in another important question,
he did not wish to put himself into any
thing which might appear like an attitude
of hostility to a government engaged in
a work which would conduce more to
the welfare and happiness of the people
of this country than any which had been
effected for many years. Feeling, how-
ever, as an Englishman, and as one who
took a deep interest in the affairs of
Portugal, he could not hear of the heart-
repding occurrence which had taken place
at the island of Terceira, without ear-
nestly calling on parliament to institute
an immediate inquiry into the transaction.


HOUSE OF COMMONS.
Monday, February 9.
MD~ITES.] Mr. HOBHOVus presented a petition ftom the
Inhabitwt-Householders of St. Jpmes, Westminster, com-
plaiting of ,he misappropriation of the parochial funds by
Sthe Select Vestry. He said it was his intention, in the
course of the Session, to bring in a bill for the Regulation
of Parish Vestries.-On the motion of Mr. Leake, it was
ordered, that the petitioners against the return of Daniel
O'Connell, esq. for the county of Clare, be at liberty to
question the said Election and Return by the renewal of
their Petition (which was depending before the House at
the end of the last session, within the next three sitting
days.

CONVENTION FOR THE SETTLEMENT
6I THE CLAIMS ON SPAIN.] The Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer presented by com-
mnand of his Majesty, the following
CoNVETrION between his MAJESTY and the
CATHoaoic KING, for the Final Settlement
of the Claims of British and Spanish sub-
jects, under the Convention concluded at
Madrid, March 12, 1823.
His Majesty the Kingofthe-United Kingdom
Sof Great Britain and Ireland, and his Majesty
the King of Spain and the Indies, being equally
convinced of the great and almost insuperable
8flfficulties that have presented themselves in
carrying into effect, by means of the mixed
commission appointed under the Convention


concluded on' the l1th of MArh, 183,, the
stipulations of the said CQnyentisp.,reQpapg
the claims preferred by subjects of both rot ionq,
-have considered that the nriol peedi and
efficacious manner of otralning the objet.c
which their Britannic and Catholiq Majesties
proposed to themselves in framing the Conven-
tion above-mentioned would be that of a com-
promise, or amicable adjustment, in which
their said Majesties, by common consent
should assign fixed and proportionate sums for
the indemnification of the claimants of both
countries, so that each of the two high contract-
ing parties should possess the power of adjudg-
ing and satisfying the legitimate claims of its
own subjects, out of the sums which each
government shouldrfor such purpose, receive
from the other, or of distributing those sums
among the individuals interested, by means of
an arrangement mutually agreed upon.
With this view their Britannic and Catholic
Majesties have nominated and appointed as
their respective plenipotentiaries, namely:-
His Majesty the King of the United Kingdom
of Great Britain and Ireland, the right honour-
able George earl of Aberdeen, viscount Gor-
don, viscount Formartine, lord Haddo, Meth-
lick, Tarvis, and Kellie, a peer of the. aid
United Kingdom, a member of his Majesty's
most honourable Privy Council, knight of the
most ancient and most noble order of the
Thistle, and his said Majesty's principal
Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs; and his
Majesty the King of Spain and the Indies, his
excellency don Narciso de Heredia, count of
Ofalia, actual knight of the royal Spanish order
of Charles 3rd, knight grand cross of the Ame-
rican order of Isabel the Catholic, and of the
legion of honour of France, councillor of state,
and his said Majesty's envoy extraordinary and
minister plenipotentiary on a special mission
to the court of his Britannia Majesty; who,
after having communicated to each other their
respective full powers, found to be in due and
proper form, have agreed upon and concluded
the following articles:-
Art. I.-His Catholic Majesty engages to
make good to his Britannic Majesty the sum
of 900,0001. sterling, in specie, as the amount
of the whole of the English claims presented
to and registered by the mixed commicison,
established by the Convention of the 12th of
March, 1823.
Art. II.-His Britannic Majesty engages to
make good, in the same manner, the sum of
200,0001. sterling, as the amount of the whole
of the Spanish claims, presented to and regis
tered by the mixed commission, in pursuance
of the said Convention.
Art. III.-It shall be lawful for eitheriQf the
high contracting parties to cause to be adjudged
within its respective territory the claims of its
own subjects, in order to satisfy, within twelve
F months from the date of the exchange of the
ratifications. of the present Corvention, such
claims as shall appear.to be just a s4 legiiBaate,
out of the sums which one of the high contract.


Claims dna Spain.


COMMONS, I






147 Rwran CWa iie Clains- [OMMONS, Pe tioihs for and 4asit. 4
,aO party, and unsatifactory to the other. heart, still he could, never cpincjiFe in bhe
Emancipation was to be given to the Ca- opinion, that additional. political power
tholiws. ia return for securities offered to could be granted to the Romian Catholics,
,the PraReatants;: but what security could with safety to our Protestanrt institutJih,
Wb silR Ato the Protestants, that they merely because his majesty believed other-
might not be deprived of their "securities," wise [cries of "Order."]. He begged
,:byaieewal of those scenes of violence pardon. This was the first time lie had
,and; intimidation which appeared to have been betrayed into a breach of the rules of
produced so much effect at the present the House, and he hoped they would for-
moment? He was well aware it might give him. The right hon. and learned
,.l pajd, that all moderate and rational gentleman seemed to have almost laid it
Caholics would be satisfied with emanci- down as a principle, that the House, on
.patios, accompanied by those securities; this occasion, ought to concur in the
bhut, who could say that those turbulent measures of his majesty's ministers; but
spirits who possessed all the influence in to such a doctrine he never could assent.
Jeland, and governed the seven millions, He was satisfied that, on this great ques-
as they were called, by their absolute will tion, the public at large was anxious to
,wrwho could say that they would be con- express a decided opinion. A sufficient
;tnt, or that they would not again exert time should be allowed for that purpose,
that power, the existence of which was between the introduction of the bill for
acknowledged, and which this act of theSuppressionof the Catholic Associatioa
.etapcipatino proclaimed the government and those measures by which that bill
Al' the coulrOry unable to resist. He was was to be followed, in order that the
wall aware, however, that no appeal of his Protestant population of England and Ire-
was.ikely:to prove effectual, in opposition land might have an opportunity of deliber-
itoth avowed determination of the go- eating on this most important subject, He
vernment; and he must, therefore, con- hoped that every opportunity would be
tetr himself by repeating, that his opinions afforded to declare their calm and deliber-
as to: the danger and impolicy of con- ate opinion. When these measures came
session remained unchanged [hear!], before the House it would be for those
fir J. Mackintosh said, that the hon, who introduced them to show that the
emruber for Cavan seemed to possess a spe- securities were as perfect as the imagi-
cies of communication compared to which nation of the most scrupulous could devise.
balloons and telegraphs were a mere joke; He was perfectly convinced, that the de-
for within four days after the delivery of cided opinion of the Protestants of Ireland
the .King's Speech, the hon. member had would be, that the only security for those
ascertained, that the people of England institutions which it was the great object
and Ireland had lost their confidence in of the settlement of 1688, to ,place on a
his majesty's government. Now, he had not solid foundation, was to be found in
ap.yet so completely gone over to the errors placing the government of the country in
of .popery as to give his credence to such Protestant hands, and thus upholding the
a fHohenlohe miracle as that. The hon. power and authority of a Protestant king.
member had expressed his conviction, that The Marquis of Chandos presented a
the petitioners against emancipation would petition from the barony of Ossory against
not be. influenced by the change which further concessions to the Catholics. He
had taken place jin the views of his ma- felt great pleasure in presenting this pe-
jesty's government; but on that point he tition, and would take that oppor-
could aot help dissenting from the hon. tunity of stating that his Majesty's Speech
fperaber. had been perused throughout the county
S r. Mo.ore said, they all knew, oonsti- which he had the honour to represent in
tuted as the government of this country parliament, without producing theslightest
was,; that his majesty was in the habit of change in the opinions of the inhabitants.
adQpting political acts on the responsibility They were ready to put forward their pe-
of hi4 advisers. In the present instance, titionsagainst concessions to the Catholics,
e looked :upon .the Speech from the to renew their best efforts to spread this
TJorosJe as having been dictated by his sentiment, and to call upon their repre-
,pajeqty's responsible ministers, and not as sentatives to do their duty to them and to
, 14iig emanated from himself. But even their. country. As the right hon. ,Secre-
il,they took it as flowing from his majesty's tary had givei notice that he meant to






1.19 -Romean Calholick flaims- [Ex; 9.1 Peiiibns fr avid elgadns1., 150


introduce a bill for the relief of the Roman
Catholics,' he now gave notice, that he
meant to fiove fbr a call of the House,
bef'te the measure was brought forward,
ji order bhat every representative might
haye an opportunity of stating his opinion,
whether the constitution was, or was not
to be maintained.
ColQnel Sibthorpe said, he coincided
entirely in what had fallen from the hon.
members for Cavan and Dublin. He be-
lieved as they did, that if sufficient time
were allowed, petitions against the pro-
posed measure would flow in from every
quarter. The right hon. and learned
member for Knaresborough, had observed
that the individuals who had carried the
petition of the University of Oxford, would
have withdrawn it, if they had been aware
of the unexpected statements that had
been made by his majesty's ministers.
He, however, was of a very different
opinion. He believed those gentlemen
were too consistent to act in such a man-
ner. It had also been stated, that numbers
of petitions had been presented, and would
be presented, which would have been
withheld, if the parties who were instru-
mental in getting them up had been aware
of the change which had taken place in
the minds of his majesty's responsible ad-
visers. Here again be was at issue.
Since he had been in town, he had met
scarcely an individual who did not ask him
"Did you expect this? What will be the
consequence ?" All appeared to be dis-
satisfied. It was his firm conviction, that
myriads of petitions would be presented
against this measure; and that the city
which he had the honour to Tepresent
would stand forward against such a vio-
lation of the constitution. He could
not conceive how the right hon. Secre-
tary for whom he entertained the highest
respect-to the display of whose great
talents he had listened from day to day,
and from week to week could have
adopted the course he had recently done,
after having stated his determination always
to oppose the claims of the Catholics.
For himself, while he had the honour of
a seat in that House, he should consider
it his duty to vote against any further
concession to them.
Sir R. Inglis rose to present a petition
from Rippon against Catholic emancipa-
tiol. He said, he need not state to the
House, how cordially he concurred in
every sentiment contained iA it. He


trusted that-the ,uggrstion, of' the hon.
member for Dublin would be'attided to,
and that sufficient time would be iven 'to
the people to express their opinion., If
this were done, that opinion would be ex-
pressed more strongly, and more intelligi-
bly every day. He was perfectly sai.,tied
that if this question were deferred' ibt a
short period, petitions from all pats of
the country would be presented, not merely
to that House, but to the Crown, praying
his majesty to exercise his royal preroga-
tive by a dissolution of parliament. He
was convinced that ministers had greatly
miscalculated the force of public opinion,
when they determined on agitating a mea-
sure of this nature. His right hon. and
learned friend had observed, that petitions
against emancipation would not have been
passed, if the individuals who had signed
them had known the intentions of the go-
vernment. Now, he felt himself called
upon to say, that that was not a true view
of the case. With every possible respect
for his right hon. and learned friend, he
must say that he was greatly in error, if
he supposed any such thing.
Sir W. Ingilby said, he did not rise to
oppose the bringing up of the petition,
but merely to state, that it did not speak
the sentiments of the people of Rippon.
It was one of those petitions which were
very properly designated "hole and
corner" petitions. It was got up 'at a
meeting held in a public-house, and
although he believed the signature of
the clergyman was affixed to it, he thought
it was not signed by the mayor 'and
officers of the corporation. In his opinion,
it ought not to lie on the table of the House.
He hoped the House would not be misled
by petitions got up by the Branswickers.
This petition was like many others that
would be hereafter presented. They
would be got up, not by disinterested
parties, but by fanatical clergymen,
apothecaries and lawyers, and conse-
quently they would not speak the feelings
of the people, who were too much en-
lightened to be led away by plausible
but fallacious statements.
Mr. Secretary Peel said, he rose for the
purpose of giving thelsame advice which he
had often given before under other irctim.
stances; namely, that the House should
receive the petitions presented to-them
with the most calm, respectful,' and
unbiassed feelings. They ought not to
scrutiniae too narrowly, or to hold up to






13 Roman'Catholic Claims- [COMMONS, Petitions for an~ agait. 2
rdi3cle the means which it was necessary from that determination :were ,,knoriift
to, resort to occasionally for the purpose the House; aid, however displeatitdgithoj
of enabling persons to state their opinions might be to some gentlemiengdlhe'filiiiftr
to thatiHouse.. He was sure that nothing believed that the: time would icbrnb -wrh
e ild be.imqre fatal to the success of the justice would;be done to the intentions oi
cQntenmplated uiniasure, than any attempt his noble friend and himself'when thiy
to treat lightly or intemperately that would not be thought to: have betrayed
deliberate and honest feelmngon thissubject their trust to the country andtb the PiY;r
vwjq4lnypbodyof peoplemightthinkproper testant establishment, because htheyha'd
txeagpressc,-He could assure the right hon. preferred the reproaches which were
and learned gentleman, who commenced heaped on them, and even an apparent
this debate, that he was perfectly satisfied sacrifice of consistency rather than pursue
that t,-, petition of the University of the course which they had hitherto. pur-
Oxford originated in the purest and most sued, and have thus obtained a;short popu-
honourable feelings, and that those who larity at the expense of the true and para-
prepare.d it were perfectly uninfluenced by mount interests of the country. .
any. a ws which his majesty's government Sir R. Inglis said, that the hon. baronet,
hadLatken, or-might think proper to take. the member for Lincolnshire, hadisaid,
TEheJ indiviJuals signing:that petition had, that this petition was not worthy to lieon
with peculiar delicacy donehim the honour the table. He did not mean to move that
ofcommittirn it to his hands, and he would it should be read, in order to disprove that
do th.e utmost justice to their feelings, assertion, but he should briefly state, -that
though he was compelled, by a sense of it was directed to two objects: it prayed,
pubticlduty, to dissent from their opinion, first, that the constitution might be jre-
W'hatever efforts might be made to induce served, and next, that no further oonces
hi,, to express his opinion fully on this sion of political power should be gratedd
subject, he hoped that his hon, friend, and to the Roman Catholics. Now, what was
the country also, would feel satisfied that there in these two clauses that ought to
th-re niuat haIe been cogent reasons, on prevent the petition from lying on the:
looking at the whole question, that could table ? Was it unworthy of a Protestant
iaopct, his noble friend and himself to people to express a wish to live under a
ple themselves in the situation in which Protestant government ?
they,;at present stood-a situation in which Mr. F. West said, he rose to present
they were not only opposed, but severely three petitions against granting further
reproached, by those who had long been concession to the Catholics. For the right
their friends. Allusion had been made to hon. Secretary he entertained the highest
tli$ agcrfice of the emoluments of office, respect; but he could not express the sur-
which, it was insinuated, ought to have prise which he felt when he heard of the
bpeni preferred to the course which he had extraordinary change which had taken place
ad.pted. Good, God! he could not argue in his stbtiments on this important ques-
with tle man nlho cojrlid place thesacrifice tion. It appeared to him exceedingly
ofgiice w, of emolument in competition strange, that those who had formerly op'-
with4,te severe, thepainful.sacrifice which posed all concession with the utmost per-.
he-had 'made-a sacrifice which it seemed severance, should now, of a sudden, turn:
to fb- supposed he had consented to, in round and support it. If a dire necessity
orderjto retain his office He had, after existed for taking such a step, the'House
mature deliberation, come to thisdetermi- must of course meet that necessity in the
nation,; that, it the state of the country-- best manner; but he would say, "'what-
and in the stateof public opinion in Ireland ever proceeding may be adopted, take es-
--he never would meet that House in the special care that due security is afforded
situation is .which he had. been formerly to the Protestant constitution of thiscouri-
plA ed:,He was responsible for the safety try.' Until the absolute necessity 'was'
of Ireland, andthat responsibility he did proved, and proper securities were given '
InQtiryishito :I- subjactedito, while the he would wish no further concessions toe
c**i et .ieredisunited on' this question- :'bemade to the Catlhoics. !
ItsaBao pqssibW that he could remaining Admiral Sotheron presented; threepwetil
su 0,sita ioniftqer. ihe: information he tionsagainst-the' claims of t.he.,dathelies,
hacbd rivedelantive to the state of Ireland i He observed, that he perfectly coincided in '
last summer, The consequences arising I the prayer of the petition,




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