Title: EESC Meeting Minutes, Unapproved Draft, held in Miami on June 19, 1987. 7p.
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Title: EESC Meeting Minutes, Unapproved Draft, held in Miami on June 19, 1987. 7p.
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Stephen E. Yohe MacArthur Foundation

Mary G. Wiser TBRPC

Ray E. Reissener DOT

Edward G. Ringe DOT

Chuck LittleJohn Fla. Land Council, Fla. Chamber

Frank J. Garguilo Palm Beach Co. Health Dept.

Larry O'Donnell DER

Rafael A. Terrero Deltona Utilities

J. Scott Benyon DER

Debra Ousley Haskell

Bill Brant Enviropact



































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The following people attended the Environmental Efficiency Study
Commission meeting on June 19, 1987, in Miami:


Name Organization

Patrick A. Martin John D. & Catherine T. MacArthur
Foundation

Chris L. Jensen Chris Jensen and Associates, Inc.

Howard F. Ostrout, Jr. John D. & Catherine T. MacArthur
Foundation

M. Miller St. Johns River WMD

Stanley W. Hole SFWMD

Pat Bidol SFWMD

Steve Light SFWMD

G. Ronnie Best Center for Wetlands, U. of Florida

Richard W. Cantrell DER

Cliff Walters Dade County of Environmental Resources

Berneice Cox Hopping, Boyd, Green & Sams

Bob Harris Haben & Culpepper, P.A.

John R. Wehle DER

John Shearer DER

Dale Twachtman DER

Patty Alien SWFWMD

Gary W. Kuhl SWFWMD

Richard S. Owen SWFWMD

David W. Fisk SRWMD

Peter Rosendahl Fla. Phosphate Council

Wally Livingstone Dade Co. Dept. of Public Health

Clare Gray Governor's Office

Barry Kling House Natural Resources Committee







Water Manageme. Districts. This subject .11 be again
reviewed at the July 24 meeting as part of the drinking water
program examination.

Regarding coastal construction, it was noted that with the
implementation of the Surface Water Improvement and Management
bill the Water Management Districts will become involved in
regulation of saltwater estuarine areas.

Regarding mining permits, Secretary Twachtmann noted that
dredge & fill projects for mines are reviewed as standard form
projects because of the quantity of material being moved and
his belief was that this program should stay with DER in
Tallahassee.

The group then discussed the agenda for the August meeting and
determined that issues of local government regulation should be
the first item in this 2-day meeting. The meeting was
adjourned after further general discussion.





































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the landfill permit could remain with DER. It was noted that
hazardous waste facilities involve groundwater contamination
problems similar to other solid waste facilities and involve
the Water Management Districts in their examination of well
fields. Secretary Twachtmann noted that the legislature passed
again this year a mandate to site hazardous waste storage and
transfer facilities.

Regarding groundwater, it was noted that DER has been involved
with the rule development for well head protection. The Water
Management Districts are under contract with DER to do
groundwater monitoring which involves the collection of
information on water quality as well as water levels in a
groundwater system. It was noted that permitting is done
relating to the consumptive use of water. Also, in the
construction of wells, the Water Management Districts issue a
permit. It was noted that in coastal areas the Water
Management Districts are concerned with saltwater intrusion and
the quantity of chlorides and sulfates in the water and these
interface with water quantity in protecting well fields in
times of drought.

Chairman Landers reviewed recommendations up to that point,
stating that dredge & fill and stormwater would go to the Water
Management Districts as well as other surface water programs,
while retaining in DER point sources permitting and domestic
and industrial waste permitting, however, he voiced concern
that for groundwater the issues could not be separated.

The next subject discussed was underground storage tanks and
Secretary Twachtmann stated that DER was placed fully in charge
of this program by legislation last year. It was noted that a
conflict has arisen because local governments wish to write
rules more stringent than state law regarding underground
storage tanks.

The discussion briefly touched on oil terminals and air
pollution for which there was found to be no duplication or
conflict.

Regarding consumptive use permits, Secretary Twachtmann stated
that this issue is wholly within the domain of the Water
Management Districts and should properly remain there.

Regarding surface water programs and stormwater permitting,
Chairman Landers concluded that the Commission is in agreement
that this program should be within the Water Management
Districts.

The discussion then turned to water well construction permits,
which are regulated by the Water Management Districts. It was
noted that these were originally devised as a data and
inventory tool to collect information about Florida's
resources. Water well contractors are also licensed by the

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stated that he believed that once the ERC adopted a rule that
it should be applied statewide. Citing the mitigation rule as
an example, he noted that DER establishes rules to implement a
law which is different than the law that the Water Management
Districts operate under and use in establishing their own
mitigation rules.

There followed a discussion of permitting activities which had
been identified by DER as overlapping with other agencies. The
discussion began with a review of industrial waste and sewage
treatment permits. Secretary Twachtmann noted that there is a
conflict in who should set the standards for the effluent
produced from wastewater treatment plants. He stated that it
seemed to him to be clearly DER who should permit this
activity. He noted that in the City of Ocala situation the
Water Management District got involved in the water quality
issue and tried to second-guess DER's wastewater allocation.
It was noted that the federal grant program approves deep well
injection as a disposal alternative yet the Water Management
Districts' policy regarding deep well injection may be contrary
to the federal program. Secretary Twachtmann's recommendation
was to leave the deep well injection program within DER and
noted that the instances of deep well injection are becoming
more infrequent. Dr. Viessman stated that he found it very
important for the State to have an overall policy to facilitate
the reuse of water. Secretary Twachtmann discussed DER's
wastewater-to-wetlands rule (which he would rather call the
recovered water-to-wetlands rule) in which highly treated water
would be put back into degraded wetlands and used for
agriculture. It was determined that there is a statutory
overlap and conflict due to the difference in language used in
Chapter 373 as it relates to injection wells and DER
authorization in Chapter 403 and that it would be necessary to
clear up this statutory language.

Te niner-ubject was drinking water programs, which relates to
a HRS/DER verlap regarding the size of a facility, was
deferred u/til the July 24 meeting. It was noted that this
issue al involved Water Management Districts in their role of
managing and protecting aquifers.

Regarding septic tanks, Secretary Twachtmann suggested letting
HRS have them all, however, the discussion of this topic was
deferred until the July 24 meeting.

The next topic was solid waste and Secretary Twachtmann's
reaction was that it seemed to belong wholly to DER. It was
noted that sanitary landfills involve massive movements of
land, stormwater problems and the potential for groundwater
contamination of aquifers. Chairman Landers concluded that if
all stormwater and surface water management is transferred to
the Water Management Districts, as the Commission has tended to
discuss, then those tangential areas would be consolidated and


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The group received a slide presentation by Dr. Ronnie Best,
Associate Director of the Center for Wetlands, on the nature
and use of wetlands.

Gary Kuhl spoke on behalf of all the Water Management Districts
regarding Water Management District funding of staff positions
should surface water responsibilities be transferred from DER.
Chairman Landers pointed out that the Water Management
Districts should be able to handle the work load because
efforts now are duplicative. The group concluded that a
detailed analysis should be required of Water Management
District staff and resources which are committed to water
management permitting programs.

After a brief presentation by Assistant DER Secretary John
Shearer on the present status of the DOT stormwater rule, DER
Secretary Dale Twachtmann reviewed the surface water
improvement and management bill passed in 1987 legislation.
Secretary Twachtmann stated that DER must use its authority in
implementing the bill but work with the Water Management
Districts as a team. Secretary Twachtmann stated he was most
interested in the standardization of rules and the
consolidation of duties between DER and the Water- .Managqment
Districts. He noted that 55 DER district employees who csduct
dredge & fill short form permitting could be transferred to the
Water Management Districts to do thie-p- 4ing-aVettvles.
iHe-was coacerned that all Water Management Districts must have /,
a full one\ (1) mill cap on taxing authority and this might be
achieved bncurrently with the Sunset Review of Water 1
Managemit District governing boards, which will occur in 1988.

Regarding the certification of federal EPA programs, Secretary
Twachtmann stated that the federal government often has the
same problem that permit applicants have in that they don't
want to deal with multiple agencies. Secretary Twachtmann
noted that Florida is the only state in Region 4 of the EPA
that has never accepted delegation for the NPDES (National
Pollution Discharge Elimination System) permits.

Regarding the standard setting by the Environmental Regulatory
Commission, Secretary Twachtmann reviewed the recently approved
mitigation rule as it relates to the Water Management
Districts' isolated wetland rules and stated that he believed
rules in this area should be unified. Noting, however, that in
some cases under unusual circumstances where the geology and
hydrology varies there might be times when adjustments to a
rule must be made. Secretary Twachtmann stated that he
believed dredge& 111fill standard form permits should continue to
be done in Tallahassee by the specialized team at DER, stating
that he signs these permits personally.

There was a review of the standard setting by the Environmental
Regulatory Commission (ERC) and the application of these
standards to Water Management Districts. Secretary Twachtmann

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ENVIRONMENTAL EFFICIENCY STUDY COMMISSION


Jay Landers, Chairman LAURA L. ALLEN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR
David Gluckman, Vice-Chairman 122 East Jefferson Street
L. M. Buddy Blain Tallahassee, Florida 32399-1400
Leslie G. Bromwell Telephone (904) 487-3733
Marilyn E. Crotty
John M. DeGrove
James L. Lafrenz
Susan R. Lubitz
Robert A. Mandell
Frederick C. Prior
Carol Rist
W. F. Spann
Theodore C. Taub
Peter Rudy Wallace
Warren Viessman

MEETING MINUTES


UNAPPROVED DRAFT


A meeting of the full Commission was held June 19, 1987, in
Miami at the Omni International Hotel. The meeting was
attended by the Commission members listed below and by members
of the public and agency staff listed at the end of these
minutes:

Leslie G. Bromwell Robert A. Mandell
Marilyn E. Crotty Frederick Prior
John M. DeGrove Carol Rist
David Gluckman Theodore C. Taub
James L. Lafrenz Warren Viessman, Jr.
Jay Landers Peter Rudy Wallace
Susan R. Lubitz

The meeting began about 9:00 a.m. with Chairman Landers
welcoming the new Governor's appointee, L. M. Buddy Blain, an
attorney from Tampa, who filled the vacant position left open
by the resignation of Carlos De La Cruz.

Chairman Landers discussed the legislative action which
extended the Commission until June 1, 1988, with the responsi-
bility to submit to the Legislature by January 31, 1988,
recommendations with implementing legislation and staff
transfers. The group then reviewed the meeting schedule until
the end of the year. Ted Taub analyzed the recent U.S. Supreme
Court decision relating to land use restrictions on private
property by a government regulation which could constitute a
taking and result in an award of damages.





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