SAbtdcAeht -- / I
1 MR. IARDLE: C. J. Hardee, Jr.
101 East Kennedy Boulevard, Tampa, Florida,
3 Water Chairman of the Keystone Pa:!k Civic
"" XEXAMINATI ON
S BY MR. HARDEE:
Q Mr. Tv;achtmann, the last portion, not
S the average part but the three things, the dates
and so forth, these are, as I understand it, an
10 effort to determine when this well field will
11 become operational?
12 A (Nodding affirmatively.)
13 Q Isn't that correct?
14 A Yes, sir.
15 You recall at the last Hearing one of the
16 specific problems were -- appeared -- with the
17 wording. It said: "This Order shall become effective
18 when the Pasco wVell field becomes operational, as
19 determined by Southwest Florida Water Management
20 District (Regulatory)." It was our impression from
21 the testimony that it might have been felt that
22 that could be an arbitrary decision. So it is --
23 this is our attempt to make clear that we do not
24 intend to claim the field to be operational when
" the first few tests of a well might occur when test
1 problem because our intention is with these
2 regulations to begin to get the use moved to the
3 Pasco field to eleviate conditions in Section 21
4 in Cosme. So if they were to purposely subterfuge
S it or, just as a matter of ordinary occu rrence, come
6 up to nine million or something like that for
7 awhile, although we wouldn't prefer that to occur,
8 if it did, that would be some assistance to Cosme
S 1in Section 21 because it would mean that water was
10 coming from a third source and, thus, would be an
11 advantage to the aquifer in the -- from the
12 southern two well fields.
13 So although this may not be perfect and
14 suspect it isn't perfect because we discussed it
15 long and hard and still always had more alternative,
1B but we believe this is the best we can offer is
17 two rational alternatives at this point.
18 Q Is it a correct statement that the City
19 of St. Petersburg has stated it has no objection,
20 generally speaking, to the imposition of these
21 regulations at such time as the Pasco field does
22 become operational?
23 A By telephone and other conversations
24 with Attorney Linn Indicate that.
25 Q And it is your intention that the
I I regulation should be imposed at such time as the
S field does become operational?
3 A That is correct.
4 MR. HARDEE: Thank you.
5 CHATIRS-: A ;P McATE17ER: Any other
& questions from the audience?
7 j Mr. Hoyt.
8 MR. HOYT: Brooks Hoyt, Attorney
from Tampa, Special Counsel for the Board of
10 County Commissioners of Hillsborough County.
11 EX AI NA TION
12 BY MR. HOYT:
13 Q Dale, a question on the way this is
14 worded. Paragraph four, that the levels for
15 Pasco will be established at the time of the first
16 review as set forth in paragraph one above. I
17 have a little trouble merging paragraph one and the
18 latter parts of paragraph four in determining just
19 when the Board would propose to move forward and
20 establish those levels.
21 A Well, it was the intention as this was
22 being formulated that it would take approximately
23 six months of thorough testing of the Pasco field
24 to really learn the particular characteristics of
25 that well field. We know and we -- that the United
1 Mr. Gibbons?
2 MR. GIWBBOCT: (Shaking head
4 CHAIRMAN MIcATEER: Anyone from
5 the audience?
MR. HARDEE: I just wanted to ask
7 Mr. Linn if he would take a position with
8 respect to when the field becomes operational
8 whether or not he agrees with what I said
10 that he doesn't either like this ten million
11 gallons per day thing and this nine months
12 thing and just take the date of March 1, 1973,
13 or just as soon as the time as the field
14 becomes operational and allow the staff and
15 the staff of the City of St. Petersburg to
16 work that out, or let the Board set it if they
17 can't work it out?
18 MR. LINN: I could clarify this.
19 I partially agree with Mr. Hardee. My
20 objection on behalf of the City is the kind
21 of arbitratory date of nine months after the
22 City obtains legal access for the Lutz-Fern
23 Road. The problem with this is that -- our --
24 we have or are in the process of completing
25 contracts would probably make the field
1 operational in a much less period of time,
2 but what happens if there are strikes, what
3 happens if there is an extraordinary act of
4 God? What happens if there are defaults in
5 contracts? We cannot exist under these
6 regulations without additional water from
7 Pasco. So the first period of nine months
8 is dangerous to us, so I'd much prefer a
8 blanket statement that when the Pasco field
10 becomes operational but for additional
11 protection we ought to have some definition
12 and the ten million gallons here is certainly
13 necessary in order to make up the needs of
14 the City, so I would gladly accept the figure
15 of when the Pasco field becomes operational.
16 CHAIRMAN McATEER: When ten
17 million gallons are available to be pumped
18 into the treatment plant. And this would make
19 Mr. Hardee, I think, happier and certainly
20 make me happier if this were done.
21 Now, as far as the change from the
22 Dundee to Jackson 26A. This was done at our
23 request because we felt there was some
24 danger of the pumping of these nearby wells
25 that could be reflected and, therefore, have
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I a private party effect the monitor. These
2 apprehensions have been partially elevated by
3 Mr. Dougherty's indications that, of course,
this could' t and wouldn't be done. But
5 this still puts it on a personal basis. If
S the Dundee Ranch were sold to a private party
7 we're thinking of thirty years ahead, they
B might not be as kind and considerate as Mr.
Dougherty. So that really, I feel, we are
10 safe by having an observation monitor well
11 which might exist for the next twenty to
12 thirty years in an area which is not privately
owned. So that while I can understand his
14 feelings and commend his generosity I still
15 feel a little favor with the Jackson 26A.
16 Any further questions?
17 MR. HARDEE: One. Do you feel it
18 would be of any benefit to have both Jackson
19 26A and the Dundee?
20 MR. LINN: It might, but our
21 original feeling that the monitor being what
22 is in effect the thing that will cause us to
23 actually stop pumping should be principally
24 Jackson 26A. To also monitor the Dundee for
25 that gathering --
i MR. HARDEE: What is your
2 reasoning that Jackson 26A should be the
3 monitoring well?
4 MR. LINN: Because it is without
5 the influence of any nearby privately owned
6 large capacity wells.
7 MR. HARDEE: But it is near
8 publically owned wells; is that right?
9 MR LINN: Yes.
10 MR. HARDEE: And can be greatly
11 effected by them?
12 MR. LINN: Yes. But, of course,
13 these publically owned wells are recorded
14 and the information is available to all
16 CHAIRMAN McATEER: Any other
18 (No response.)
19 MR. BEVILLE: The same effect
20 would also be if Dundee were monitored,
21 wouldn't it? He has given, his consent. No
22 doubt about his honesty.
23 MR. LINN: No whatsoever.
24 MR. BEVILLE: At least lock it
25 up- 8
i MR. LINH: None whatsoever, but
2 if the Dundee Ranch were sold to a person in
3 incensed against the City and decided he
"MR BEVILLE: If you wanted to
6 move then you could do away--
7 MR. LINN: Any future wells will
8 have to be permented, the past wells haven't.
8 So we are only concerned with past private
11 CHAIRM4'AN McATEER: Mr. Brashears
12 was sworn in at the previous hearing.
14 M. L. BRASHEARS,
15 having been previously sworn to speak the truth,
16 the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, was
17 examined and did testify as follows:
18 DIRECT EXAMINATION
19 BY MR. LINN:
20 Q Would you please state your name,
21 please, for the record.
22 A M. L. Brashears.
23 Q And in the testimony of December 8,
24 1971 you gave your qualifications to the members of
25 this Board?
1 therefore that the decline of water levels in the
2 Section 21 well field is due not only to pumpage bu
3 also due to a deficiency in rainfall.
4 MR. LINN: Gentlemen?
5 CHAIRMAN McATEER: Any questions
8 of the Board of Mr. Brashears?
7 (No response.)
8 CHAIRMAN McATEER: Mr. Gibbons?
8 MR. GIBBONS: No questions.
10 CHAIRMAN McATEER, Staff or the
12 (No response.)
13 CHAIRMAN McATEER: Thank you,
15 Are there any others in the audience
16 that care to testify?
17 If not, we consider this -- Mr. Hardee.
18 MR. HARDEE: I have some rebuttal
19 just on one point if I may, please, Mr.
21 C. J. Hardee.
22 The portion of the operational section
23 that we particularly disagree with, speaking
24 on behalf of the Keystone Park Civic
25 Association, is that portion which would
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I permit St. Petersburg to pump ten million
2 gallons per day before the well field is
3 considered operational. We believe this is
4 a very peculiar way to define it, not in
5 proper or appropriate way to define when the
8 field is operational, and we would suggest
7 some other definition, as I mentioned awhile
8 ago, perhaps at the time after they finish
their tests and they commence pumping on a
10 regular basis to the extent that the effects
11 are felt outside the perimeter of the field.
12 As I said, we are perfectly willing to leave
S3 this to the staff to determine with the City
14 of St. Peteresburg. We do object to the
15 definition that the field is not operational
1B until they are pumping ten million gallons
17 per day.
18 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
19 CHAIRMAN McATEER: Any questions?
20 (No response.)
22 (No response.)
24 (No response.)