Title: Memorandum attachment #1: Transcript of Examination
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Title: Memorandum attachment #1: Transcript of Examination
Alternate Title: Memorandum attachment #1: Transcript of Examination of individuals by C. J. Hardee, Jr. of Tampa, Water Chairman of the Keystone Park Civic Association. selected from larger document.
Physical Description: 10p.
Language: English
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Spatial Coverage: North America -- United States of America -- Florida
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General Note: Box 2, Folder 4 ( ST. PETERSBURG, CITY OF V. SOUTHWEST FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT ), Item 3
Funding: Digitized by the Legal Technology Institute in the Levin College of Law at the University of Florida.
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Bibliographic ID: UF00051126
Volume ID: VID00001
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Holding Location: Levin College of Law, University of Florida
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SAbtdcAeht -- / I


1 MR. IARDLE: C. J. Hardee, Jr.

101 East Kennedy Boulevard, Tampa, Florida,

3 Water Chairman of the Keystone Pa:!k Civic

Association.

"" XEXAMINATI ON

S BY MR. HARDEE:

Q Mr. Tv;achtmann, the last portion, not

S the average part but the three things, the dates

and so forth, these are, as I understand it, an

10 effort to determine when this well field will

11 become operational?

12 A (Nodding affirmatively.)

13 Q Isn't that correct?

14 A Yes, sir.

15 You recall at the last Hearing one of the

16 specific problems were -- appeared -- with the

17 wording. It said: "This Order shall become effective

18 when the Pasco wVell field becomes operational, as

19 determined by Southwest Florida Water Management

20 District (Regulatory)." It was our impression from

21 the testimony that it might have been felt that

22 that could be an arbitrary decision. So it is --

23 this is our attempt to make clear that we do not

24 intend to claim the field to be operational when

" the first few tests of a well might occur when test

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1 problem because our intention is with these

2 regulations to begin to get the use moved to the

3 Pasco field to eleviate conditions in Section 21

4 in Cosme. So if they were to purposely subterfuge

S it or, just as a matter of ordinary occu rrence, come

6 up to nine million or something like that for

7 awhile, although we wouldn't prefer that to occur,

8 if it did, that would be some assistance to Cosme

S 1in Section 21 because it would mean that water was

10 coming from a third source and, thus, would be an

11 advantage to the aquifer in the -- from the

12 southern two well fields.

13 So although this may not be perfect and

14 suspect it isn't perfect because we discussed it

15 long and hard and still always had more alternative,

1B but we believe this is the best we can offer is

17 two rational alternatives at this point.

18 Q Is it a correct statement that the City

19 of St. Petersburg has stated it has no objection,

20 generally speaking, to the imposition of these

21 regulations at such time as the Pasco field does

22 become operational?

23 A By telephone and other conversations

24 with Attorney Linn Indicate that.

25 Q And it is your intention that the

25-









I I regulation should be imposed at such time as the

S field does become operational?

3 A That is correct.

4 MR. HARDEE: Thank you.

,i
5 CHATIRS-: A ;P McATE17ER: Any other

& questions from the audience?

7 j Mr. Hoyt.

8 MR. HOYT: Brooks Hoyt, Attorney

from Tampa, Special Counsel for the Board of

10 County Commissioners of Hillsborough County.

11 EX AI NA TION

12 BY MR. HOYT:

13 Q Dale, a question on the way this is

14 worded. Paragraph four, that the levels for

15 Pasco will be established at the time of the first

16 review as set forth in paragraph one above. I

17 have a little trouble merging paragraph one and the

18 latter parts of paragraph four in determining just

19 when the Board would propose to move forward and

20 establish those levels.

21 A Well, it was the intention as this was

22 being formulated that it would take approximately

23 six months of thorough testing of the Pasco field

24 to really learn the particular characteristics of

25 that well field. We know and we -- that the United

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1 Mr. Gibbons?

2 MR. GIWBBOCT: (Shaking head

3 negatively,)

4 CHAIRMAN MIcATEER: Anyone from

5 the audience?

MR. HARDEE: I just wanted to ask

7 Mr. Linn if he would take a position with

8 respect to when the field becomes operational

8 whether or not he agrees with what I said

10 that he doesn't either like this ten million

11 gallons per day thing and this nine months

12 thing and just take the date of March 1, 1973,

13 or just as soon as the time as the field

14 becomes operational and allow the staff and

15 the staff of the City of St. Petersburg to

16 work that out, or let the Board set it if they

17 can't work it out?

18 MR. LINN: I could clarify this.

19 I partially agree with Mr. Hardee. My

20 objection on behalf of the City is the kind

21 of arbitratory date of nine months after the

22 City obtains legal access for the Lutz-Fern

23 Road. The problem with this is that -- our --

24 we have or are in the process of completing

25 contracts would probably make the field

84-









1 operational in a much less period of time,

2 but what happens if there are strikes, what

3 happens if there is an extraordinary act of

4 God? What happens if there are defaults in

5 contracts? We cannot exist under these

6 regulations without additional water from

7 Pasco. So the first period of nine months

8 is dangerous to us, so I'd much prefer a

8 blanket statement that when the Pasco field

10 becomes operational but for additional

11 protection we ought to have some definition

12 and the ten million gallons here is certainly

13 necessary in order to make up the needs of

14 the City, so I would gladly accept the figure

15 of when the Pasco field becomes operational.

16 CHAIRMAN McATEER: When ten

17 million gallons are available to be pumped

18 into the treatment plant. And this would make

19 Mr. Hardee, I think, happier and certainly

20 make me happier if this were done.

21 Now, as far as the change from the

22 Dundee to Jackson 26A. This was done at our

23 request because we felt there was some

24 danger of the pumping of these nearby wells

25 that could be reflected and, therefore, have

"- 85 -










I a private party effect the monitor. These

2 apprehensions have been partially elevated by

3 Mr. Dougherty's indications that, of course,

this could' t and wouldn't be done. But

5 this still puts it on a personal basis. If

S the Dundee Ranch were sold to a private party

7 we're thinking of thirty years ahead, they

B might not be as kind and considerate as Mr.

Dougherty. So that really, I feel, we are

10 safe by having an observation monitor well

11 which might exist for the next twenty to

12 thirty years in an area which is not privately

owned. So that while I can understand his

14 feelings and commend his generosity I still

15 feel a little favor with the Jackson 26A.

16 Any further questions?

17 MR. HARDEE: One. Do you feel it

18 would be of any benefit to have both Jackson

19 26A and the Dundee?

20 MR. LINN: It might, but our

21 original feeling that the monitor being what

22 is in effect the thing that will cause us to

23 actually stop pumping should be principally

24 Jackson 26A. To also monitor the Dundee for

25 that gathering --

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i MR. HARDEE: What is your

2 reasoning that Jackson 26A should be the

3 monitoring well?

4 MR. LINN: Because it is without

5 the influence of any nearby privately owned

6 large capacity wells.

7 MR. HARDEE: But it is near

8 publically owned wells; is that right?

9 MR LINN: Yes.

10 MR. HARDEE: And can be greatly

11 effected by them?

12 MR. LINN: Yes. But, of course,

13 these publically owned wells are recorded

14 and the information is available to all

15 parties.

16 CHAIRMAN McATEER: Any other

17 questions?

18 (No response.)

19 MR. BEVILLE: The same effect

20 would also be if Dundee were monitored,

21 wouldn't it? He has given, his consent. No

22 doubt about his honesty.

23 MR. LINN: No whatsoever.

24 MR. BEVILLE: At least lock it

25 up- 8









i MR. LINH: None whatsoever, but

2 if the Dundee Ranch were sold to a person in

3 incensed against the City and decided he

might -

"MR BEVILLE: If you wanted to

6 move then you could do away--

7 MR. LINN: Any future wells will

8 have to be permented, the past wells haven't.

8 So we are only concerned with past private

10 wells.

11 CHAIRM4'AN McATEER: Mr. Brashears

12 was sworn in at the previous hearing.

(3 Thereupon,

14 M. L. BRASHEARS,

15 having been previously sworn to speak the truth,

16 the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, was

17 examined and did testify as follows:

18 DIRECT EXAMINATION

19 BY MR. LINN:

20 Q Would you please state your name,

21 please, for the record.

22 A M. L. Brashears.

23 Q And in the testimony of December 8,

24 1971 you gave your qualifications to the members of

25 this Board?

88 -









1 therefore that the decline of water levels in the

2 Section 21 well field is due not only to pumpage bu

3 also due to a deficiency in rainfall.

4 MR. LINN: Gentlemen?

5 CHAIRMAN McATEER: Any questions

8 of the Board of Mr. Brashears?

7 (No response.)

8 CHAIRMAN McATEER: Mr. Gibbons?

8 MR. GIBBONS: No questions.

10 CHAIRMAN McATEER, Staff or the

11 audience?

12 (No response.)

13 CHAIRMAN McATEER: Thank you,

14 sir.

15 Are there any others in the audience

16 that care to testify?

17 If not, we consider this -- Mr. Hardee.

18 MR. HARDEE: I have some rebuttal

19 just on one point if I may, please, Mr.

20 Chairman.

21 C. J. Hardee.

22 The portion of the operational section

23 that we particularly disagree with, speaking

24 on behalf of the Keystone Park Civic

25 Association, is that portion which would

"- 100 -


i1__ .________









I permit St. Petersburg to pump ten million

2 gallons per day before the well field is

3 considered operational. We believe this is

4 a very peculiar way to define it, not in

5 proper or appropriate way to define when the

8 field is operational, and we would suggest

7 some other definition, as I mentioned awhile

8 ago, perhaps at the time after they finish

their tests and they commence pumping on a

10 regular basis to the extent that the effects

11 are felt outside the perimeter of the field.

12 As I said, we are perfectly willing to leave

S3 this to the staff to determine with the City

14 of St. Peteresburg. We do object to the

15 definition that the field is not operational

1B until they are pumping ten million gallons

17 per day.

18 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

19 CHAIRMAN McATEER: Any questions?

20 (No response.)

21 Board?

22 (No response.)

23 Staff?

24 (No response.)

25 Audience?
101 -





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